The Original Nephilim were 450 Feet Tall

[Volkaitis]

Origin of the Fallen Angels Story
The question most people seem to have is where did the story of the watchers come from? I've mentioned the three passages under the descriptions of Watchers and Lucifer on the demon page, but just to put everything together, I thought I'd put the two stories together. Before doing so, let me briefly say that the question of evil has plagued theologians and philosophers for millennia. In Judeo-Christian thought, the problem was more pronounced - if God is an omnipotent being that is entirely good, how can evil exist? Why would God create a world that was not entirely 'good' in the first place, and even if he did create evil, why would he allow it to continue to exist?

Put another way, why do the righteous suffer while the wicked prosper - issues addressed by Jeremiah and Job. The fallen angels accounts attempt to offer a mythological explanation - part of God's subordinates sinned against him and corrupted humanity in the process.

[Volkaitis]

2 Accounts of the Fall
Generally, there are 2 flavors of the fallen angels myth. The first describes a group of angels who, lead by Azazel, lusted after the women of earth. They defiled themselves by mating with humans and their consorts gave birth to mean-spirited giants. God was not pleased with the rebellion and punished them for their misdeeds, but not before humanity was corrupted in the process. This tale is introduced in Genesis 6:1-4 and elaborated on in the Book of Enoch, part of the Jewish Pseudepigrapha which is a collection of works not found in the bible.

The other story involves the mightiest angel who, out of pride, rebelled against God during the time of Creation. This mighty angel (Lucifer) sought to overthrow God, but he failed and was cast out of heaven to become Satan, the adversary. Then, out of contempt for mankind, he lead Adam and Eve to sin.

[Volkaitis]

In addition to these accounts, there is another account of the Satan who directly opposed God, but was never fully explained.

As mentioned in the Watchers description, there are two potential biblical passages that refer to the first account of the fallen angel myth - Genesis 6:1-4 and Psalm 82:1, 5-7. To summarize, Gen 6 explains that the angels married women, but does not explicitly condemn this while Psalm 82 mentions that the angels sinned, but does not mention that the cause of their sin was that they married mortal women. There is no biblical evidence to support any connection between the two passages. There is only one potential passage referring to the second myth - Isaiah 14:12-15. Most scholars conjecture that this myth was derived from a lost Canaanite myth about a rebellion to overthrow El and Elyon.

[Volkaitis]

Reference

    * Article: Book of Enoch
    * Article: The Book of Enoch and the Pseudepigrapha
    * Article: Watchers/Nephilim
    * Article: Azazel
    * Article: Lucifer
    * Article: Satan
    * Bamberger, Bernard. Fallen Angels: The Soldiers of Satan's Realm. Jewish Publication Society. ISBN: 1-56618-850-X, 1952. Republished by Barnes & Noble Books in 1995.

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/articleview.asp?Post=35

[Volkaitis]

The Book of Enoch and the Pseudepigrapha
posted by Krista | 12/29/2003 4:44:54 PM | Permalink | StumbleUpon Toolbar Stumble It!
Jewish Traditions Not Included In the Bible
The Pseudepigrapha is a collection of various works written approximately between 200 BCE and 100 CE that were left out of the Old Testament. They tend to be written in Hebrew or Aramaic or occasionally Greek, and tend to be attributed to well known biblical heroes like Abraham, Moses, and Noah. Some of these books were included in Greek manuscripts of the bible, and those extra books became known as the Apocrypha and are still included in Catholic bibles.

Note, in ancient times, they were not distributed together as one collection called the Pseudepigrapha. That's just a term that scholars use today to classify this body of literature. Also note that while Catholics hold the Apocrypha to be part of the canonical scriptures, Jews give them a similar weight/influence as other non-canonical texts in the Pseudepigrapha like the Book of Enoch - ie very little other than legends. This is because the stories often deviate from the mainstream beliefs of the various prominent Jewish sects of the time.

[Volkaitis]

Ethiopic Enoch (what we know as the Book of Enoch or 1 Enoch)
Originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic (which we have from the Dead Sea Scrolls), this book describes the revelations of Enoch, who according to Genesis lived 365 years and then 'walked with God and was not, for God took him.' (Gen 5:18-24) The text itself, is made up of several stories that seem to be put together piecemeal and jump around.

1 Enoch describes a number of issues including the fall of the watchers, the end of days, the Messiah, punishment of the wicked while the righteous will be rewarded, etc. Its main purpose for telling the story of the watchers seems to be to recount how moral evil came into the world. By engaging in the sinful/evil act of sexual relations with humans, the angels defiled their own pure nature. To make matters worse, they taught their wives forbidden secrets of beautification, war, magic, the workings of the universe, and other immoral practices. Later, Enoch becomes the intermediary between the captured Azazel, who will now never know peace and must watch his children die, and God. Azazel asks Enoch to read a petition for forgiveness, but God refuses due to the magnitude of the crime they committed. Interestingly, the story also mentions how when the giants were slaughtered, evil spirits emerged from their bodies and were condemned to roam about until the final judgment.

[Volkaitis]

This now accounts for how we have evil in the world. While the fallen angels were punished, the giants were slaughtered and mankind was wiped out with Noah's Flood, this condemning sin did not go away because these evil spirits, who were unable to be drowned or killed, still roamed the earth.

Reference

    * Bamberger, Bernard. Fallen Angels: The Soldiers of Satan's Realm. Jewish Publication Society. ISBN: 1-56618-850-X, 1952. Republished by Barnes & Noble Books in 1995.
    * Collins, J.J. The Apocalyptic Imagination, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.; Revised edition (April 1998)
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/articleview.asp?Post=36

[mdsungate]

   The traditional explaination for all the evil in the world is contained in the phrase, “sympathy for the devil” which is reference to something akin to what you have said here. 

   I’ve read the Book of Enoch, (which is a wild an accounting of human origins as anything that Zecharia Sitchin ever concocted, and I can see why the Hebrew priests decided to leave it out of the Torah).  It does however contain much, (but not all), of the “tradition” that has been set down about the War in Heaven between the good angels and the bad angels, and their leader, Lucifer. 

   The traditions have it that Lucifer was the most beautiful and talented of all the angels, and was an Archangel, and God’s best friend.  God had taught Lucifer some of his very best “tricks” includings apparently how to create things.  At one point it all went to Lucifer’s head and he thought he was as powerful as God and convinced about half of the angels in Heaven to follow him and revolt against God.  The good Angels won, lead by the Archangel Michael and were cast down to earth, as in Enoch’s accounting. 
   Lucifer, (now Satan, apparently), could have been immediately cast into the Abyss, (the furthest place there could be from God, a place of absolute darkness).  But God had “sympathy for the devil” and let him roam the earth until the end of time, when Lucifer and his followers will be cast into the Abyss, and the door to it forever shut.  And the “devil” is trying to bring as many souls down with him to keep him company. 
   The Book of Enoch does not seem to contain the parts about Lucifer being God’s friend, and God being so hurt by his friend had done, that he took pity on him, and had “sympathy for him”.   I have been trying to figure out where this part of the story comes from.  None of this is contained in the traditional old or new testaments of the Bible.  I only found Enoch’s Book in recent years, but I would love to discover where the rest of it comes from.
 
Mike

[Qoais]

A little reading material for you:

THE URANTIA BOOK—PAPER 53: THE LUCIFER REBELLION
AUDIO VERSION PRINTER FRIENDLYSYNOPSIS
53:0.1 Lucifer was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty—rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.

53:0.2 In the universe of Nebadon, the domain of Christ Michael, there are ten thousand systems of inhabited worlds. In all the history of Lanonandek Sons, in all their work throughout these thousands of systems and at the universe headquarters, only three System Sovereigns have ever been found in contempt of the government of the Creator Son.

053:1 THE LEADERS OF REBELLION
AUDIO VERSION
53:1.1 Lucifer was not an ascendant being; he was a created Son of the local universe, and of him it was said: " You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created till unrighteousness was found in you. " Many times had he been in counsel with the Most Highs of Edentia. And Lucifer reigned " upon the holy mountain of God, " the administrative mount of Jerusem, for he was the chief executive of a great system of 607 inhabited worlds.

53:1.2 Lucifer was a magnificent being, a brilliant personality; he stood next to the Most High Fathers of the constellations in the direct line of universe authority. Notwithstanding Lucifer's transgression, subordinate intelligences refrained from showing him disrespect and disdain prior to Michael's bestowal on Urantia. Even the archangel of Michael, at the time of Moses' resurrection, " did not bring against him an accusing judgment but simply said, `the Judge rebuke you.' " Judgment in such matters belongs to the Ancients of Days, the rulers of the superuniverse.

53:1.3 Lucifer is now the fallen and deposed Sovereign of Satania. Self-contemplation is most disastrous, even to the exalted personalities of the celestial world. Of Lucifer it was said: " Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness. " Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: " How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds! "

53:1.4 Very little was heard of Lucifer on Urantia owing to the fact that he assigned his first lieutenant, Satan, to advocate his cause on your planet. Satan was a member of the same primary group of Lanonandeks but had never functioned as a System Sovereign; he entered fully into the Lucifer insurrection. The " devil " is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.

53:1.5 Abaddon was the chief of the staff of Caligastia. He followed his master into rebellion and has ever since acted as chief executive of the Urantia rebels. Beelzebub was the leader of the disloyal midway creatures who allied themselves with the forces of the traitorous Caligastia.

53:1.6 The dragon eventually became the symbolic representation of all these evil personages. Upon the triumph of Michael, " Gabriel came down from Salvington and bound the dragon (all the rebel leaders) for an age. " Of the Jerusem seraphic rebels it is written: " And the angels who kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he has reserved in sure chains of darkness to the judgment of the great day. "

BIBLE REFERENCES

053:2 THE CAUSES OF REBELLION
AUDIO VERSION
53:2.1 Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.

53:2.2 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer's mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of " self-assertion and liberty. "

53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer's mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.

53:2.4 Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.

53:2.5 It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer's mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.

[Qoais]

053:4 OUTBREAK OF THE REBELLION
AUDIO VERSION
53:4.1 The Lucifer manifesto was issued at the annual conclave of Satania on the sea of glass, in the presence of the assembled hosts of Jerusem, on the last day of the year, about two hundred thousand years ago, Urantia time. Satan proclaimed that worship could be accorded the universal forces—physical, intellectual, and spiritual—but that allegiance could be acknowledged only to the actual and present ruler, Lucifer, the " friend of men and angels " and the " God of liberty. "

53:4.2 Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the " equality of mind " and " the brotherhood of intelligence. " He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.

53:4.3 The entire administrative cabinet of Lucifer went over in a body and were sworn in publicly as the officers of the administration of the new head of " the liberated worlds and systems. "

53:4.4 While there had been two previous rebellions in Nebadon, they were in distant constellations. Lucifer held that these insurrections were unsuccessful because the majority of the intelligences failed to follow their leaders. He contended that " majorities rule, " that " mind is infallible. " The freedom allowed him by the universe rulers apparently sustained many of his nefarious contentions. He defied all his superiors; yet they apparently took no note of his doings. He was given a free hand to prosecute his seductive plan without let or hindrance.

53:4.5 All the merciful delays of justice Lucifer pointed to as evidence of the inability of the government of the Paradise Sons to stop the rebellion. He would openly defy and arrogantly challenge Michael, Immanuel, and the Ancients of Days and then point to the fact that no action ensued as positive evidence of the impotency of the universe and the superuniverse governments.

53:4.6 Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the " government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof. "

53:4.7 Lucifer was permitted fully to establish and thoroughly to organize his rebel government before Gabriel made any effort to contest the right of secession or to counterwork the rebel propaganda. But the Constellation Fathers immediately confined the action of these disloyal personalities to the system of Satania. Nevertheless, this period of delay was a time of great trial and testing to the loyal beings of all Satania. All was chaotic for a few years, and there was great confusion on the mansion worlds.

[Qoais]

053:5 NATURE OF THE CONFLICT
AUDIO VERSION
53:5.1 Upon the outbreak of the Satania rebellion, Michael took counsel of his Paradise brother, Immanuel. Following this momentous conference, Michael announced that he would pursue the same policy which had characterized his dealings with similar upheavals in the past, an attitude of noninterference.

53:5.2 At the time of this rebellion and the two which preceded it there was no absolute and personal sovereign authority in the universe of Nebadon. Michael ruled by divine right, as vicegerent of the Universal Father, but not yet in his own personal right. He had not completed his bestowal career; he had not yet been vested with " all power in heaven and on earth. "

53:5.3 From the outbreak of rebellion to the day of his enthronement as sovereign ruler of Nebadon, Michael never interfered with the rebel forces of Lucifer; they were allowed to run a free course for almost two hundred thousand years of Urantia time. Christ Michael now has ample power and authority to deal promptly, even summarily, with such outbreaks of disloyalty, but we doubt that this sovereign authority would lead him to act differently if another such upheaval should occur.

53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father—the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned—in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.

53:5.5 The Lucifer emblem was a banner of white with one red circle, in the center of which a black solid circle appeared.

53:5.6 " There was war in heaven; Michael's commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not. " This " war in heaven " was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.

53:5.7 But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p053.htm

[mdsungate]

   Not that I'm not saying that that book is an unreliable source of information, Qoais, but just where it gets it's information is questionable.  It is definately not something that is drawing on ancient writings and sacred traditions that have been handed down.  Perhaps it's source is through Channeling or even of extraterrestial origin.  Here's what Wiki has to say about it.

The Urantia Book (sometimes called The Urantia Papers or The Fifth Epochal Revelation) is a spiritual and philosophical book that discusses God, Jesus, science, cosmology, religion, history and destiny.[1] It originated in Chicago, Illinois, USA, sometime between 1924 and 1955, but its authorship is unclear. There has been much debate and speculation on how the papers were produced.[2]

The writers introduce the word Urantia as the name of the planet Earth and state their intent is to "present enlarged concepts and advanced truth" in an "endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception." Among many other topics, it expounds on the origin and meaning of life, describes humankind's place in the universe, discusses the relationship between God and people, and presents a detailed biography of Jesus.

The traditions about Lucifer have been handed down throught the melenia, and there are numours books which were deliberately left out of the Old and New Testaments for one reason or another, such as the Book of Enoch.  I know there is also the Book of Adam and Eve, and I've never been able to find that one.  Also much of the Dead Sea Scrolls are kept hidden by the Roman Catholic Church, presumable because they are too controversial.  All they will say is that they are being studied. 
 
Mike

[Qoais]

I know the Urantia Book was channeled and when I first started reading it I was skeptical as well.  Actually, when I read what Lucifer had to say about why he was rebelling, I thought "what's wrong with that"?  He was advocating what we're all advocating today, freedom of choice.  I found an underlying current within the book, that did not sit well with me, but as far as what one might call "tangible" points, or even just points of interest, a lot of it made sense.  I've read also, testimonials of people who were of a scientific bent, who read the book and understood the scientific information hinted at, and proceded to make discoveries because of it.  I wouldn't be surprised if Gene Rodenberry of Star Trek fame didn't get a lot of his ideas from the Urantia Book

I have read what fragments were allowed to be released of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but found that those bits were in line with the Biblical account of things, so there was nothing earth shattering there, although I too, would like to get my hands on the rest of the scrolls. 

I am currently reading the works of a physicist (a rogue physicist) and I found it very interesting that in his quest to figure out how they moved the huge blocks to build the pyramids, he developed a theory but was having a bit of trouble making it work.  He had a theory about there being a 4th dimension of energy and how it is always THERE or the universe couldn't survive.  (Amazing how the UB says there are several types of energy we have not discovered yet)  Then he read in the Bible about the Seraphim and realized that the ancients had written down the exact same theory as he had, but had no technical vocabulary to describe what it was that was taking place.

The Riddle of the Sphinx

In Understanding the Lattice, Part IV, I mentioned that, thousands of years ago, a man named Isaiah wrote down the secret of seraphim motion on a scroll. According to Isaiah, a seraph can use only two of its six wings at a time to move. Remember that the wings of seraphim are associated with motion in the three familiar spatial dimensions. There are two wings (positive and negative) for each dimension. It follows that, at any given time, a seraph can only move on an absolute surface or plane. Note that it takes two perpendicular dimensions or axes to describe a surface. Let’s call this surface an 'absolute plane'. In abstract 3-D space, there are three possible types of absolute planes, each perpendicular to the others, as depicted by the three sides of the isometric cube below./quote]



For you to understand what he's talking about when he says a seraph can use only two of its six wings at a time, you will have to read the rest of his blog.  Isaiah called these things seraphs, he calls them Lattice Particles (for now).

What if you could force a coherent stream of seraphim (arrows) to move in parallel trajectories but perpendicularly to one of the three absolute planes? The answer is that the seraphim would be using only one of their wings for movement. It follows that, by playing with various directions of motion aligned with the absolute axes of the universe, one can control which pairs of wings are used./quote]

[Qoais]

I had realized many years ago that what I needed to levitate a stone was two perpendicular beams of seraphim. Remember that the word seraphim is the plural of seraph, a Hebrew word meaning ‘burning one’ or ‘shining one’. The metaphor is rather fitting since seraphim is a symbol for pure energetic particles. They are the constituents of an immense ocean of energy in which everything moves. In addition, my levitation hypothesis required that the seraphim in each beam should travel along parallel trajectories. I devised and performed various experiments but nothing came of it. I tried in vain to come up with a mechanism that would force the seraphim to move in parallel trajectories. This went on for years. And then I made another discovery. 

Ancient Civilizations and Aliens

I had long suspected that a few ancient civilizations might have possessed the knowledge to levitate and effortlessly transport huge blocks of stones. We see possible examples of this in places like Stonehenge, Giza plateau, Baalbek, Easter Island, Tiahuanaco, Nazca and other places around the world. I also noted the vehement denial within mainstream archaeology that ancient people had any sort of advanced technology for moving large blocks of stones. And why should they not deny it? If ancient people did have some advanced technology, it would squarely contradict their worldview. Luckily for me, I had already developed a healthy distrust of the scientific community at that point in my research.

Nothing makes the blood of an archaeologist boil more violently than the suggestion that aliens might have had something to do with megalithic construction. Of course, being the **** unrepentant rebel that I am, I immediately felt that their reaction was sufficient cause for me to take the alien hypothesis seriously. I reasoned to myself, so what if ancient societies had contact with aliens? Why should that be so unbelievable compared to the unlikeliness of everything else? After all, almost every single written and oral tradition speaks of a distant era when humans had contact with powerful beings that they worshiped as deities. The archaeological/historical record is clear on this. Why should we dismiss all those accounts out of hand and classify them as mere religious myths just to appease a bunch of self-congratulating tale weavers and dirt diggers with a hidden agenda? What if some of the ancient myths were true? And what if the upper ruling classes of some ancient societies did receive secret scientific knowledge from their alien overlords? I think it would be cool if it were true. I would also think that, if ancient human wizards or high priests did have such advanced knowledge, they would have inadvertently left evidence of it for posterity to discover. As it turned out, they did.
quote]

http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2009/10/lattice-propulsion-part-i.html

[Qoais]

The point I was going to make when I first started babbling like a brook, was that what the Bible says, is not necessarily what we think it says.