ERICH VON DANIKEN

[archaeologist]

Well don't you think science, especially the evolutionists have their truth?

No. There is only one truth and evolution is not it and secular scienc e stumbles across some but credits it to a falsehood.

it is empirically based in that search for the truth. The religious persuasion make no such claims to empiricism

do not have to be as creation was not a scientific act. empiricism is just a secular criteria and has nothing to do with creation or life. yes science can find things out, for example photosynthesis but origins is far beyond secular science's scope.

They proclaim science has the evolutionary answers

No, they say they have natural answers but they forget that the origin of all things was supernatural, a field secular science does not allow into its fold.  when people use evolution or natural ideas for origins, that is like people who are trying to find out how a house was built by going to a car's engineering blueprints and claiming that was how a house was constructed.

It's probably more of a ''how can that be'' attitude. I have a dose of that attitude myself but that doesn't make me right in saying I told you so.

but if you dismiss the truth because there is no physical evidence done in the manner you want then what would you call it? God does not go by secular science or its rules.

T]his theory shows why he is wrong as it leaves too
many unanswered questions:

the questions i asked are just basic ones and if you cannot provide a credible answer to them how will you be able to answer the real difficult ones. there is no rational answer for the theory that aliens started it all and the only conclusion you can come to is hopelessness because these so-called superior beings left humans alone to fend fo rthemselves.

i am quite sure you would be angry at your parents if they did that to you so why accept calmly because some alien did?

Theologians think they have the answer to this too but I ain't buyin' it. Not one bit.

but we do and that is your choice. at least with God, you know you are wanted and you have purpose for existing. the alternatives do not give you that.

[archaeologist]

do you believe in angels? 

no, i believe in Jesus and know that angels exist.

If you do, can you post a picture of what they look like and tell us what they do?

if you do not believe God's word about angels why would you believe any old picture I would post annonymously on a chat room forum?

Have you figured out how to post pictures?  If not, go to Photobucket, open a free account, and just follow the instructions

that won't be happening anytime soon.

[Qoais]

It seems you want direct answers to your questions, but you don't want to answer any.

I also see you're going to split hairs over every little word.  When I ask you if you believe in angels, I simply meant do you believe they exist.  Not if you believe IN them as one believes IN Christ.  You say you want a conversation, but you hinder it by refusing to actually converse. 

I never said I didn't believe angels exist.  You assumed that.  My next point was to ask you if you believe God created the angels, then how would you describe them?  As celestial beings?  As beings of love? If you accept that this is so, do you not also accept that God made other beings, even more loving and and heavenly than angels?  Just because the Bible only mentions certain creations, do you think God was limited to creating just those that are mentioned?  God has not obviously told us about everything he created, since we are only learning now, about that creation.  However, we are also learning that there are other things besides this planet that he created.  There are galaxies and universes so vast, that the human mind boggles at trying to comprehend it.  So don't you think that if God can create universes, if God can create life period, he can create a lot of life?  A lot of different types of life? 

In the Bible there is a person called Melchizedek.  He had no parentage.  How do you think he came into being?

Just because we don't know what all God created, doesn't mean he didn't create other beings, beings more superior than us.  Beings who are more intelligent, more advanced in their spirituality, more advanced in their understanding of God's purpose.  How do we know he didn't create other helpers?  The angels were supposedly created to help man.  So how do we know he hasn't created other helpers, or other beings that are helpers as well?  Perhaps he created beings that are sent to the planets after he creates them, to plant the seeds of life there.  Perhaps they are to stay and watch over the life developing on that planet until it reaches a certain stage.  Once it is established that things are going according to plan, other works are set in motion.  How do you know that there are not celestial beings watching our development all along?  The angels are always there, and they don't breed, so are they robots?  Or are they a living being created to live forever?    If God made one such creature, why could he not make others, even more advanced?

[archaeologist]

It seems you want direct answers to your questions, but you don't want to answer any.

i think i did answer your questions.

I also see you're going to split hairs over every little word.

i am just keeping it clear so you have no room to falsely accuse me of anything.

My next point was to ask you if you believe God created the angels, then how would you describe them?  As celestial beings?  As beings of love? If you accept that this is so, do you not also accept that God made other beings, even more loving and and heavenly than angels?

if your point is to make the claim that He could have made aliens then no He did not. Jesus said to His disciples, talking about heaven, 'if it were not so I would have told you'. In other words if there were other beings than what is mentioned in the Bible then we would have been told about them. we are not.

do you think God was limited to creating just those that are mentioned?  God has not obviously told us about everything he created, since we are only learning now, about that creation.

no God was not limited and could create as many beings as He wished but He did not. Just like carpenter who can create many things out of wood but chooses to build a table and chair. God decided what He wanted and that was all that was put into existence. we know everything that was created and are not just finding it out just now.

However, we are also learning that there are other things besides this planet that he created.  There are galaxies and universes so vast, that the human mind boggles at trying to comprehend it.  So don't you think that if God can create universes, if God can create life period, he can create a lot of life?  A lot of different types of life? 

asked and answered directly above. the Bible tells us that the universe and all that it contains is to show the glory and power of God. he does not need to fill it with aliens to do that. he can leave it empty, as He has, and still get the message across.

He is basically telling humans how creative, wonderful, powerful, etc., He is yet people still deny Him and disbelieve His word.

In the Bible there is a person called Melchizedek.  He had no parentage.  How do you think he came into being?

that you will have to ask God but he was not an alien or we would have been told so.

Just because we don't know what all God created, doesn't mean he didn't create other beings, beings more superior than us.

all you are doing is trying to justify your belief in aliens and there is no foundation for such a belief. we know what was created  and we know that aliens did not start this human race.

How do we know he didn't create other helpers?  The angels were supposedly created to help man.  So how do we know he hasn't created other helpers, or other beings that are helpers as well? 

i believe ezekiel andrevelation, possibly daniel may describe some others but there are no aliens. it would not be fair to give them a different path to salvation if they existed and it wouldn't be right to have Jesus die over and over again on their home planets.

Perhaps he created beings that are sent to the planets after he creates them, to plant the seeds of life there

no because they would not have th epower to do that for then God would be sharing the glory and setting up the created beings to serve false gods and rob Himself of the glory. The Bible is very clear GOD created life, He breathed the breath of life into us no one else so He gets the glory and credit.

before going off on this tangents and distractions, you should study the character of God first and see that He would not share the glory or make it so someone else is thought of as God. he states it very clear that He alone is God and no one is above Him, which gives you an indication that He would not delegate creative powers to His helpers.

How do you know that there are not celestial beings watching our development all along?

basically the same answer as above. we are to turn to God so He gets the glory and credit. that is why we do not pray to the 'saints' like the RCC/orthodox. God wants us to seek Him out or Jesus, and give them the glory for their help. besides, why would you go to a lesser being when you know that God was around and was more powerful than they?

The angels are always there, and they don't breed, so are they robots?

from what we know about angels, they are not robots and believers won't breed once we are in heaven.

Or are they a living being created to live forever?    If God made one such creature, why could he not make others, even more advanced?

yes, from what we know they will live forever as well. because He didn't, for the reasons stated above.

[Qoais]

i

f your point is to make the claim that He could have made aliens then no He did not. Jesus said to His disciples, talking about heaven, 'if it were not so I would have told you'. In other words if there were other beings than what is mentioned in the Bible then we would have been told about them. we are not.

What you are quoting here is a statement already made by Jesus regarding his father's house having many mansions and if it were not so, I would have told you.  It has nothing to do with what other beings God created.

What kind of God are you worshiping that that craves power and glory?  God is Love.  God is the Creator.  He does not uncreate.  He does not kill.  He does not need to have human attributes and egomaniacal tendencies like being jealous, or angry or vindictive. 

The reason I asked you about the angels is because to most people, they are tender and loving and caring and can do no harm because they are a spiritual entity created to love and can be no other way.  Therefore I ask you, how is it that God, who created these beautiful creatures, could be less than they are?  How could you believe that a God that is Love, could be anything but love?  A God that can create the universes and everything in them, is not small and petty, and demanding, such as is told about in the Old Testament.  So you are trying to tell us that God, who created those loving angels is beneath them?  That they do not experience jealousy and greed or demand thanks and honors when they help humans, but God who created them, has those attributes? 

Because that is how God is described in the Old Testament isn't he?  Jealous, angry, supposedly creating all men equal and then picking favorites and putting Moses in charge of his favorites.  Sending these favorites out into the desert with the promise of a land of milk and honey in the future, a land which is already inhabited by other people that God also created, and on the journey to this previously owned land, they use the Ark of the Covenenant to kill and destroy whatever's in their path, because God told them to?  I though one of the 10 commandments was Tlhou Shalt Not Kill, and yet that Ark of the Covenant was a killing machine.  Read the Old Testament, and you can learn how many it killed.  Do you think the ultimate Creator would behave in this fashion? 

Bull crap.

[Robert0326]

Well said Qoais.  The God of the Old Testament is a genocidal lunatic.  The odd thing is that hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament.  The first time it's mentioned is when gentle Jesus shows up in the New Testament.

[archaeologist]

What you are quoting here is a statement already made by Jesus regarding his father's house having many mansions and if it were not so, I would have told you.  It has nothing to do with what other beings God created.

yes i am well aware of that, nice to know that the people on this website like to tell others what they already know. what you forgot was that if Jesus would have told them about no mansions, He would have told us about other created creatures.  it is not a stretch to conclude that.

What kind of God are you worshiping that that craves power and glory?  God is Love.  God is the Creator.  He does not uncreate.  He does not kill.  He does not need to have human attributes and egomaniacal tendencies like being jealous, or angry or vindictive. 

you know so little and it sounds like you are trying to make God after your image not humble yourself and accept Him for whom He really is.  you forget that love disciplines, punishes, likes credit and does get jealous, angry and so on. He does not kill? then you are not reading the Bible are you.

it is not that He has human attributes but that we humans have divine ones on a limited fallible scale.

The reason I asked you about the angels is because to most people, they are tender and loving and caring and can do no harm because they are a spiritual entity created to love and can be no other way.

then such people have a misconception of whom angels are; after all they were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. they are the servants of God and do His will. please prove that last sentence of yours.

How could you believe that a God that is Love, could be anything but love?

yet love disciplines, sets rules, gets angry, jealous, punishes, guides and so on. it does not allow a person to do what they want when they want. you need a better understanding of what love is.

A God that can create the universes and everything in them, is not small and petty, and demanding, such as is told about in the Old Testament.

he is not small or petty but He gets to set the rules and if anyone breaks them, He gets to punish as He sees fit. remember His foolishness is wiser than man's wisdom. the OT & NT God are one in the same.

So you are trying to tell us that God, who created those loving angels is beneath them?  That they do not experience jealousy and greed or demand thanks and honors when they help humans, but God who created them, has those attributes? 

your misconceptions are being used to deceive you and lead you away from the truth.

Because that is how God is described in the Old Testament isn't he?  Jealous, angry, supposedly creating all men equal and then picking favorites and putting Moses in charge of his favorites.

it sounds like you are jealous now. there is a lot you do not understand and i am not sure if i want to get into it right now. suffice it to say that God chose a people to be His people because of Abraham and His obedience. try to go back to the beginning before leaping to conclusions. God kept a promise that is not a bad thing.

Read the Old Testament, and you can learn how many it killed.  Do you think the ultimate Creator would behave in this fashion? 

you are focusing on the wrong things and that is leading you away from the truth. Holiness demands certain behavior and God was clear in His instructions so everyone knew what they could and could not do. he was not unfair, nor unjust. as to the 'killing machine' you really like to distort things now don't you.

The God of the Old Testament is a genocidal lunatic.  The odd thing is that hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament.  The first time it's mentioned is when gentle Jesus shows up in the New Testament

your bias and hatred ruins your ability to see the truth as well and it doesn't have ot be mentioned in the OT to exist now does it?

[Robert0326]

So you pretty much cherry pick the Bible.  Take all the warm and fuzzy and disregard all the bad crap.  You would think they would have put something in the OT about the eternal torture of the soul after you die.  But they didn't.  Hmmm, I wonder why.  The thing is; most Christians don't obey all the rules and laws.  Like stoning people who work on the Sabbath, stoning your kids if they talk back to you, stoning a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night.  So, if your not doing these things that God told you had to do then I guess your going to hell, huh.

[Qoais]

The God in the Bible is the "fallen" angel (although he was not an angel - it's a label applied by humans).  Lucifer was a created being who rebelled.  It is he who tried to rule the earth and chose a favorite people from amongst all those God created, and he who fooled everyone into thinking he was the Almighty.

If you think that physical and psychological abuse is showing love, you need help.

[archaeologist]

So you pretty much cherry pick the Bible.

i am not the one doing the cherry picking, you seem to to ignore everything that you do not like about God and focus on only what you want.

The thing is; most Christians don't obey all the rules and laws

the mosaic law basically applies to the Israelites not the NT christian.

So, if your not doing these things that God told you had to do then I guess your going to hell, huh.

bad assumptin and you have put the cart way before the horse on thisone. i would suggest you get rid of the distortions and false information you have about the Bible and study it properly.

The God in the Bible is the "fallen" angel (although he was not an angel - it's a label applied by humans).  Lucifer was a created being who rebelled.  It is he who tried to rule the earth and chose a favorite people from amongst all those God created, and he who fooled everyone into thinking he was the Almighty.

If you think that physical and psychological abuse is showing love, you need help.

that is just complete heresy.  also God does not go by secular definitions and it is not abuse. 

[The Lyrian]

Erich, I respect you fully because you had to put up with ridicule until finally people sided with you but you make me Laugh when he say's on the ancient alien show "The gods, they came down and had sex with the womens" like it was shocking or something. I heard today on the radio that some man had a 9 month relationship with a dolphin. Katie perry wants to have sex with the gods too in that alien sex song about men. He just likes the way he says that whole line. Like I said I respect you Erich.