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'MYSTERY QUEST'- Drs. Greg & Lora Little's Series On History Channel

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Author Topic: 'MYSTERY QUEST'- Drs. Greg & Lora Little's Series On History Channel  (Read 15488 times)
Greg Little
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« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2009, 05:22:56 pm »

If one concludes that Plato's words were false, were wrongly translated, or that he made a lot of mistakes and errors, one can place Atlantis virtually anywhere. Or one can conclude that it is a complete fiction. Those who conclude that he was somehow mistranslated can retranslate certain words or passages to make it fit anywhere in the world or in any time period. According to literally hundreds of books, Atlantis has been found virtually everywere on earth, and some even suggest Mars or other worlds. I stick with the mainstream academic accepted translations that it was far out in the Atlantic Ocean through Gibraltar, was an island empire, was circa 9600 BC, had 2 growing seasons, had elephants and horses, and by going from island to island the opposite continent could be reached. The islands of the Carribean, the Bahamas, and Cuba fit that description, and that's my main focal point. The maritime and trading culture of Atlantis decribed by Plato had numerous ports and areas under their control, thus remnants of Atlantis, as well as the remnants of the cultures that the Atlanteans traded with, certainly would be found in a lot of places--including inside the Mediterranean. Either Plato was correct or all that he related is impuned and by extension could all be false. I can't debate or argue the existence of the main portion of Atlantis inside the Mediterranean or in Africa or in European areas simply because I accept the commonly utilized translations. Nor can I debate or argue the circa 9600 BC date really being 900 BC because Plato gave the 9600 date 3 times. Those who want to retranslate Plato themselves or use an obscure translation that fits their beliefs can certainly do so. Those who say he exaggerated or added a zero to dates can certainly do so, but the fact remains that Plato said 9600 BC. In such an improbable situation--specifically the reality of the history story of Atlantis that strains credulity--it really doesn't matter what someone thinks or concludes. All that matters to me is what is actually found and what the evidence shows. All of us become emotionally attached to beliefs and ideas and that's not always a bad thing. But ultimately all there is left is evidence--real artifacts and real archaeological finds. There is a lot of "stuff" underwater all over the earth, and very little exploration has really happened. Lots more stuff will be found and reported and Atlantis will continue to be reported "found" in various places for a long, long time. I'm OK with that and I hope lots of new evidence is found. In general, I believe it's good for archaeology.
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Benegel
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2009, 07:16:58 pm »

Greg, I agree that Plato certainly meant 9600 bc, and that the original Greek and Latin translations all seem to suggest that there was no mistake.

However, how do you align Plato's writings with what Cayce wrote?  Plato describes a Bronze Age civilization while Cayce describes one of high technology.  Could Cayce's visions have been mistaken and he was actually envisioning America and it's downfall instead of Atlantis?

Also, have you found any evidence of this high tech civilization that Cayce wrote about?
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Greg Little
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2009, 07:50:02 pm »

What Cayce stated in his readings doesn't conflict with Plato. But Cayce traced Atlantis from about 200,000 BC to 10,000 BC. Plato tells of the beginning of Atlantis but gives no date. We started this active search in the Bahamas in January 2003 because of an unexplained photo of what "looked like" a circular ring of standing stones in shallow water off SW Andros. The photo was taken in 1969. The stones turned out to be huge sponge. But we were then led to another underwater formation off NE Andros. That required that we take a look at the "Bimini Road" for comparison. At that time I had accepted the skeptics' statements, but had not read all of the actual reports they made. After our first real look at the Bimini Road we stopped at the Univ. of Florida and pulled out copies of the full articles. That was the start of uncovering the Bimini Hoax.

The 2006 book, Edgar Cayce's Atlantis, which I wrote with my wife Lora and John Van Auken, goes into great detail on what Cayce said about Atlantean technology. I can't go through all of that here. I think that what Cayce described is so foreign to us that we don't really understand what ancient high-tech really was. But at their height, according to Cayce in 28,000 BC, they used hot-air type blimp objects for travel. A series of disasters starting in 28,000 BC destroyed most of the Atlantis technology. From 28,000 BC until 10,000 BC the Atlantean culture, according to Cayce, never reached the same heights it had reached in 28,000 BC. The blimps were made from sewn animal skins. Nowhere in the Cayce readings on Atlantis is there a hint of it being the future of America... But people tend to interpret Cayce as they will and I don't have any criticism I give for such interpretations. But a point-by-point analysis between Plato and Cayce's statements shows that there is no contradiction. Cayce however, said a lot more about Atlantis than did Plato.

As to the last question: Last time in the Bahamas we found 3 high technological objects in a very remote area in 30-50 feet of water. Two were trucks, one was a car. Will that suffice as evidence of high-tech in Atlantis?

Actually, I have heard skeptics say, "if Atlantis existed, where are all the high technology devices from Atlantis?"

OK, we found 2 trucks and a car, not to really focus on the 14 planes discovered so far. So, can I claim that the vehicles are evidence of a high tech Atlantis? All of us know the answer to that. Although we did not take the time to dive these vehicles (we did film them though) my strong hunch is that they are fairly recent...meaning last 20-40 years. But I have no idea at all how these got to where they are now.

In reality, most metal, wood, and artifacts don't do too well in the sea water. Even aluminum planes deteriorate badly after a decade or so. My hope, and perhaps the only definitive proof that can be found, is that we'll stumble on the remains of large stone buildings that will be obvious. There are several (at least 5) remains of harborworks in the Bahamas, not one of which has ever been truly evaluated by mainstream underwater archaeologists. Eventually they will be, but all they will point to is an unrecognized maritime culture once being there. If a circa 3000 BC harborwork is high tech, then that's a step toward what you asked. But it isn't enough. By the way, the ancient harborworks were at least as good as modern ones, and Roman concrete was far superior to modern concrete. They may not have used equipment to build them as we do, but their result was every bit as good. And a lot of the things they built in to their harbors would not even be tried today--too expensive.
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Qoais
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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2009, 08:51:35 pm »

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they used hot-air type blimp objects for travel

Except Cayce said these devices were guided by crystal power, didn't he?

What sorts of things are in their harbors that we can't afford?
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Benegel
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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2009, 09:51:21 pm »

Thanks for the detailed response, Greg.

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As to the last question: Last time in the Bahamas we found 3 high technological objects in a very remote area in 30-50 feet of water. Two were trucks, one was a car. Will that suffice as evidence of high-tech in Atlantis?

It depends, what state license plates were on them?  Kidding.

The reason I asked the question about finding any Atlantean high tech (apparently a question that you and a lot of other Atlantis researchers get a lot, is because a lot of people are interested in Atlantis simply because of what Cayce wrote about it, and aren't actually as interested in the Plato version. 

When you say that one doesn't directly contradict with the other, I can see what you mean - Cayce's version could be a longer version of Atlantis history whereas Plato could be simply describing the end - however, the technology is very different from one story to the other as the following quotes show:
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Benegel
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« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2009, 10:00:49 pm »

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READING: 364-6
(Q) Describe one of the ships of the air that was used during the highest period of mechanical development in Atlantis. (A) Much of the nature, in the EARLIER portion, as would be were the hide of MANY of the pachyderm, or elephants, many into the CONTAINERS for the gases that were used as both lifting and for the impelling of the crafts about the various portions of the continent, and even abroad. These, as may be seen, took on those abilities not only to pass through that called air, or that heavier, but through that of water - when they received the impetus from the NECESSITIES of the peoples in that particular period, for the safety of self. The shape and form, then, in the earlier portion, depended upon which or what skins were used for the containers. The metals that were used as the braces, these were the COMBINATIONS then of what is NOW a lost art - the TEMPERED brass, the temperament of that as becomes between aluminum (as now called) and that of uranium, with those of the fluxes that are from those of the COMBINED elements of the iron, that is carbonized with those of other fluxes - see? These made for lightness of structure, non-conductor OR conductors of the electrical forces - that were used for the IMPELLING of same, rather than the gases - which were used as the lifting. See? For that as in the NATURE'S forces may be turned into even the forces OF that that makes life, as given, from the sun rays to those elements that make for, or find CORRESPONDING reaction in their APPLICATION of same, or reflection of same, TO the rays itself - or a different or changed form of storage of FORCE, as called electrical in the present.

READING: 440-1
Mechanical appliances for electrical influences that may bring healing or destructive influences. THEN they were used by the entity as DESTRUCTIVE influences.

READING: 440-5
About the firestone that was in the experience did the activities of the entity then make those applications that dealt with both the constructive and destructive forces in the period. Constructive and destructive forces were generated by the activity of this stone. In the center of a building, that today would be said to have been lined with non-conductive metals, or non-conductive stone - something akin to asbestos, with the combined forces of bakerite [bakelite?] or other non- conductors that are now being manufactured in England under a name that is known well to many of those that deal in such things. The building above the stone was oval, or a dome wherein there could be or was the rolling back, so that the activity of the stone was received from the sun's rays, or from the stars; the concentrating of the energies that emanate from bodies that are on fire themselves - with the elements that are found and that are not found in the earth's atmosphere. The concentration through the prisms or glass, as would be called in the present, was in such a manner that it acted upon the instruments that were connected with the various modes of travel, through induction methods - that made much the character of control as the remote control through radio vibrations or directions would be in the present day; though the manner of the force that was impelled from the stone acted upon the motivating forces in the crafts themselves. There was the preparation so that when the dome was rolled back there might be little or no hindrance in the application direct to the various crafts that were to be impelled through space, whether in the radius of the visioning of the one eye, as it might be called, or whether directed under water or under other elements or through other elements. The preparation of this stone was in the hands only of the initiates at the time, and the entity was among those that directed the influences of the radiation that arose in the form of the rays that were invisible to the eye but that acted upon the stones themselves as set in the motivating forces - whether the aircraft that were lifted by the gases in the period or whether guiding the more pleasure vehicles that might pass along close to the earth, or what would be termed the crafts on the water or under the water. These, then, were impelled by the concentrating of the rays from the stone that was centered in the middle of the power station, or power house (that would be termed in the present). As to describing the manner of construction of the stone, we find it was a large cylindrical glass (as would be termed today), cut with facets in such a manner that the capstone on top of same made for the centralizing of the power or force that concentrated between the end of the cylinder and the capstone itself.
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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2009, 10:11:36 pm »

Hi Greg,

I found this in an article I think you or Lora wrote online called "the A.R.E.'S Atlantis Search Findings:

Quote
Bimini and Andros Island, lying about 100 miles to the east of Bimini, were a part of the same island in 10,000 B.C.—called "Poseidia" by Cayce. Cayce related that a Hall of Records containing the records of Atlantis was constructed somewhere in the region. The Hall of Records was in a temple which sunk in 10,000 B.C. and is, according to Cayce, covered by "the slime of ages." This record hall is identical to the one in Egypt under the Sphinx.

http://www.edgarcayce.org/edgar_cayce/atlantis.aspx

Does this mean that you have confirmed Bimini and Andros as the location for Poseidia?  I think that is the first time I have heard that from you, if you were the one to write this. 

If it is you, how were you able to confirm it? 
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Greg Little
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« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2009, 09:16:45 am »

Qoais:

Yes, Cayce related that the crystals were used to navigate and also used to focus the rays of the sun to produce heat. The navigation method is unknown but could have been a lot of ways. Another reading (about the city of Poseida) said that in a temple there were semicircular columns that took the rays of the sun and reflected them to a central crystal. There are several "modern" devices similar: maser. laser, and oddly, the way we make "green" energy using the sun to produce heat that is used to push turbines to generate electricity. Mirrors focus the sun's rays...and if one focuses all of the light into a beam through a crystal, the crystal essentially tunes all of the light to the same frequency.

With respect to ancient vs. modern harbors, the ancients cut individual blocks and then fitted them into place one-by-one especially taking care to create a level, flat quay on the top of the breakwater enclosures utilizing ashlar blocks. Today, we usually dump irregular shaped blocks into a massive elongated heap to create a breakwater. We could cut individual blocks and then fit each into place, but the cost would be astronomical... For loading and unloading, we do one of 3 things: One is to use massive lift cranes, the second is to have wooden pilings and wooden platforms, the third is to construct concrete loading platforms. Wooden and modern concrete platforms don't last long, being rebuilt every 10-30 years. A well constructed stone quay lasts, well, there are many Phoenician ones in the Mediterranean that still exist. What I'm saying is that we could build things that last, but we choose not to do so because of the up front costs.

Benegel: No license plates. In the past I was more interested in Plato's version, but with the finds in the Bahamas, and Piedras Negras, and Egypt, and other things, I have become far more intrigued with Cayce's, especially the idea that an "advanced" civilization disappeared. Oddly, at the site of Cayce's Yucatan Hall of Records, Piedras Negras, Guatemala, crystals and mirrors were found. That is where an emblem of the "firestone" is supposed to be. But I do not want to enter into that debate...

Artemis: The Cayce readings are pretty clear on one issue: Bimini was part of what he called the island of Poseidia. It was Poseidia in 10,000 BC and before. At that time, Bimini and Andros and the Great Bahama Bank were part of a large island because of lower sea levels. Logically, then, since Cayce said Bimini was a portion of Poseidia island in 10,000 BC, the rest of the island was also Poseidia. In addition, there are other Cayce readings that say searches for Poseidia to the south and west from Bimini would prove fruitful. For the ARE Press book "Edgar Cayce's Atlantis" we related most of Cayce's relevant readings and compared them to what research has shown. (That book was aimed at people who already have an interest and knowledge about Cayce. As far as I know there is no scientific proof that Bimini and Andros were Poseidia...and I really don't know what would constitute such proof. But what I do know is that the Cayce readings are quite clear: in Cayce's readings Bimini and Andros were a part of Poseidia.) We wrote 2 ARE Press Books...all the other books have been published by other publishers
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Desiree
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2009, 01:04:06 pm »

Hi Greg,

Quote
As far as I know there is no scientific proof that Bimini and Andros were Poseidia...and I really don't know what would constitute such proof. But what I do know is that the Cayce readings are quite clear: in Cayce's readings Bimini and Andros were a part of Poseidia.

Well, didn't the subbottom profiling show that this area was above water at one time, and constituted a single island?
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2009, 01:05:40 pm »

From 28,000 BC until 10,000 BC the Atlantean culture, according to Cayce, never reached the same heights it had reached in 28,000 BC. The blimps were made from sewn animal skins. Nowhere in the Cayce readings on Atlantis is there a hint of it being the future of America... But people tend to interpret Cayce as they will and I don't have any criticism I give for such interpretations. But a point-by-point analysis between Plato and Cayce's statements shows that there is no contradiction.

I disagree on two points here.  

First, I can prove -within the readings- that a high state of technology existed to the final destruction of Atlantis and beyond into the colonies. The firestone crystal was in use in Egypt and in Yucatan. If there's any doubt see "Cayce's Atlantean Yucatan" Part 5 "Regeneration" here for the readings excerpts.
[BTW, This, and the preceding chapter "Atlantean Crystals", are items John Van Auken wants to publish in Ancient Mysteries -if I can ever find a way to extract them from the overall study.]  The decline in technology happened after Atlantis was gone, and there's no reason to think that this would have happened beforehand.

As for the "Atlantean blimps", that's incomplete. If a clairvoyant in the distant future were going to peer into our own time, the first thing he might lock onto is the Goodyear Blimp but should that represent the pinnacle of 21st century airpower? Cayce described very advanced vehicles that could move through any element and some were described as being more like submarines, flying boats, and planes.

Secondly, Plato gave a complete Order of Battle for the Atlantean and Athenian forces that describes bronze-age weaponry.  This is certainly not a match to the Atlantean high technology that built the Great Pyramid, the Sphinx Temple, electrical devices, and aircraft described during the 10,000 B.C. period in the Cayce readings.  This OoB and the nationalistic, underdog/David &Goliath theme of the little Athenians throwing back the big, bad Atlanteans (the parallel to resisting Persia) are the parts of the tale which I think were added by Solon or Plato as embellishment

As far as I know there is no scientific proof that Bimini and Andros were Poseidia...and I really don't know what would constitute such proof.

I think that ruins on the seafloor go a long way toward vindicating both Plato and Cayce.  Cayce said that "much would be found archeologically" near Bimini and this is true.  Cayce was the first to say the Bahamas were part of Atlantis and we've found geographical correspondences (size and shape) with the location's criteria spelled out in Plato's Critias.
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"For the greater individual is the one who is the servant of all. And to conquer self is greater than taking cities."

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Horus
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« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2009, 01:15:55 pm »

Hi Greg,

Quote
As far as I know there is no scientific proof that Bimini and Andros were Poseidia...and I really don't know what would constitute such proof. But what I do know is that the Cayce readings are quite clear: in Cayce's readings Bimini and Andros were a part of Poseidia.

Well, didn't the subbottom profiling show that this area was above water at one time, and constituted a single island?

It's the sea level studies by Michael Faught of FSU as well as Toscano & McIntyre that allow us to deduce that it was one large island during the Pleistocene era. Sub-bottom profiling only tells us what the shape of the seafloor is underneath sedimentary accretion -i.e. -what's under the the sandy bottom.  I think what Greg is talking about is definitive, archeological/artifactual proof, but IMO that's been found via sidescan sonar in 1998 and 2006 at the correct depth which automatically places these structures into the antediluvian timeframe.
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"For the greater individual is the one who is the servant of all. And to conquer self is greater than taking cities."

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Greg Little
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2009, 01:59:17 pm »

DES, HORUS:

That's a lot to respond to. There's no doubt that all of the Great Bahama Bank was above water in the last Ice Age. But all we have that relates to it being Cayce's actual island of Poseidia is what Cayce said. It was an island closely matching the size Plato gave in the same timeframe. Are underwater archaeology ruins there? Yes. I can't relate what has been found to 10,000 BC, except for the unexplored underwater rectangular forms at 90-feet -- which would date to the 10,000 BC shoreline. The stone formation known as the Bimini Road could have been used in 10,000 BC, but it was above water and wasn't a harbor then. On the other hand the rectangular formations at 90 feet do look like the remains of buildings on the ancient shoreline.

As to the high tech timeframe, I came to the conclusion that the highest period described in Cayce's readings was just before 28,000 BC. In a filmed interview, I asked Edgar Evans Cayce that very question and his reply was the same as mine. His words were that the Atlanteans never recovered to the same heights they had achieved before the 28,000 destruction. But Horus is right that Cayce described submarines and electrical devices. He also described the use of the "Firestone" as a weapon in 10,000 BC. I interpret a lot of that similar to written accounts of ancient sea warfare where focused mirrors and lenses were used to set ships afire. And submarines are far older than anyone realized. I'm not speaking of modern subs. This is what I mean by saying that understanding ancient technology is very foreign. Imagine in 50 years someone trying to describe a sliderule...almost everyone under 30 has no conception of a sliderule. In 50 years it'll be seen as ancient high tech. This is all minor and not important to me, but I understand its significance to the many others interested in Cayce and Atlantis. My own answer is that what I have written about these curious devices and power producing crystals is the best interpretation I can make, and I can certainly be wrong.
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Horus
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« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2009, 03:08:07 pm »

Yes, I know that Edgar Evans Cayce believed that, and wrote as much in the seminal Edgar Cayce on Atlantis, but he missed a few readings or didn't take them into account and it's easy to understand how and why.  There was no Edgar Cayce Readings Library: Atlantis Vol. 22 compendium or Cayce CD-ROM to aid his research back then.  When he established the chronology of destructions he ignored the reading where Cayce was asked when the first destruction took place -"7,500 years before the final destruction" - or 17,500 B.C.  Another reading states that awoman lived in Poseidia for 6000 years and witnessed 2-3 of the great destructions there. Dates seem to be 'flexible' things in the readings.  The only ones worth trusting IMO are the dates for the final destruction as being around the 10,500 B.C. timeframe because they are repeated over and over again in the readings, and we know scientifically that the world was undergoing tremendous changes then.  If one looks up Pleistocene, one will note that it officially ended in 9600 B.C. -that's not an accidental coincidence!

As for the high technology, some of that story may be true, and it's very likely that some of it may have been Cayce blending from a subconscious knowlege of Dweller on Two Planets by Phylos the Tibetan (which he had read) and the Biblical Book of Ezekiel which he had memorized with the rest of Scripture.  Both books include great crystals and airships!

When I undertook my training as a clinical hypnotherapist and began to really study the nature of the subconscious mind, the channelling process, and took a deeper, closer look into the readings and especially their background reports, it became apparent that the readings directly reflect many things that Cayce was exposed to in his waking life.  Whether he consciously believed in the Rosicrucian literature flowing into the A.R.E. headquarters then, or agreed with his clients' beliefs (with whom he was in telepathic rapport) is irrelevant because the job of the subconscious mind is to record literally everything, and access to this database is established with hypnosis -Cayce's method of access.

Basically, Cayce's readings are sufficiently close to the known truth to be interesting, and sufficiently far from the known truth to be somewhat frustrating and difficult to prove.

Quote
All that matters to me is what is actually found and what the evidence shows. All of us become emotionally attached to beliefs and ideas and that's not always a bad thing. But ultimately all there is left is evidence--real artifacts and real archaeological finds.


And that's the bottom line -at the bottom of the ocean or the bottom of the Giza Plateau!
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mdsungate
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« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2009, 10:50:24 pm »

 Smiley  Greg,
   I’ve been following this thread faithfully, printing it all out and taking the time to ponder all the implications of what’s being said here.  Being another “child of the sixties” like you, Atlantis and other ancient mysteries have been my passionate hobby these many “New Age” years.  You were perhaps as captivated by Berlitz’s “The Bermuda Triangle” as I was, (as well as his work on Atlantis.)   The late Dr. Valentine and he were most inspirational to me.  You have managed to take this love of the unknown out of the library and into the field.  I commend your efforts in this quest for the truth about the ancient empire, and I am fast becoming a fan of yours.  You have taken up the torch left by Valentine and others like him. 
   Unlike Childress, (of whom I am also a fan of), you are not satisfied with simply restating hearsay.  You are after that “smoking gun” that will transform the “myth” of Atlantis into a reality the way “mythical Troy” became a reality when it was finally discovered in the 20ies.
   There are those of us here at AO who lament that even should the lost continent rise up with and intact airfield of virmani, there would still be Nay Sayers, LOL.
   I might point out here that Cayce and Plato are not the only source of all these legends.  Atlantis, (and Mu), are an integral part of Tibetan and Hindu lore, as I’m sure most of you well know.  So for those proponents of ancient high technology out there, there’s a lot more to draw upon for arguments sake.
   But I don’t think Greg is out to prove that ancient high technology existed.  I would suspect that his hopes lie more along the lines of finding a submerged temple with a nicely preserved bronze state of Poseidon, flanked by dolphins, LOL.  Is that about right Greg?   Wink
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« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2009, 11:31:13 pm »

Quote
Another reading (about the city of Poseida) said that in a temple there were semicircular columns that took the rays of the sun and reflected them to a central crystal.

Didn't Ray Brown find a crystal, attached to an underwater pyramid in the Atlantic, and wouldn't it constitute proof of Atlantean high technology?
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