Prehistoric Crete

[Brooke]

I'd like all the Atlantis experts here to consider some new thinking!

What if we are looking at this in the wrong way?  Many people have made the connection that Crete/Santorini was Atlantis with the dates wrong.

What if we have it wrong here and Crete was actually the Athens that Plato wrote about??

It's in the same general area as Greece, the Minoans DID have settlements on the mainland, and guess what:  it's the oldest settlement in Europe!! It dates to 6000, even maybe 7000 bc!

And guess what else:  they had writing! Both Linear A and B! 

Linear B hasn't been translated yet, but what if it has some evidence of a story of a war with an opponent that invaded the Mediterranean that the Cretans (Atlanteans) managed to defeat?

I would like a critique of my theory and I would appreciate for people to do their damndest to poke some holes in it! 

Brooke

[Brooke]

Prehistoric Crete

Little is known about the rise of ancient Cretan society, because very few written records remain, and many of them are written in the undeciphered script known as "Linear A". This contrasts with the superb palaces, houses, roads, paintings and sculptures that do remain.

Cretan history is surrounded by legends (such as those of King Minos; Theseus and the Minotaur; and Daedalus and Icarus) that have been passed to us via Greek historian/poets (such as Homer).

Because of a lack of written records, estimates of Cretan chronology are based on well-established Aegean and Ancient Near Eastern pottery styles, so that Cretan timelines have been made by seeking Cretan artefacts traded with other civilizations (such as the Egyptians) - a well established occurrence. For the earlier times, radiocarbon dating of organic remains and charcoal offers independent dates. Based on this, it is thought that Crete was inhabited from the 7th millennium BCE onwards. The fall of Knossos took place circa 1400 BC. Subsequently Crete was controlled by the Mycenaeans from mainland Greece.

The first human settlement in Crete dates to the aceramic Neolithic. There have been some claims for Palaeolithic remains, none of them very convincing. The finds from Samaria-gorge, idenitfied as Mesolithic by some scholars, seem to be the product of trampling. The native fauna of Crete included pygmy hippo, pygmy elephant, dwarf deer (Praemegaceros cretensis), giant rodents and insectivores as well as badger, beech marten and a kind of terrestrial otter. Large carnivores were lacking. Most of these animals died out at the end of the last ice-age. It is still not sure if man played a part in this extinction, which is found on other big and medium size Mediterranean islands as well, for example on Cyprus, Sicily and Majorca. Up to now, no bones of the endemic fauna have been identified in Neolithic settlements.

Remains of a settlement found under the Bronze Age palace at Knossos (layer X) date to the 7th Millennium BCE cal.

[Brooke]

Minoan-Mycenaean Crete

Crete has been the centre of Europe's most ancient civilisation, the Minoans. Tablets inscribed in Linear A have been found in numerous sites in Crete, and a few in the Aegean islands. The Minoans established themselves in many islands besides Crete: secure identifications of Minoan off-island sites include Kea, Kythera, Milos, Rhodes, and above all, Thera (Santorini), the site about which most is known.

Archaeologists ever since Sir Arthur Evans have identified and uncovered the palace-complex at Knossos, the most famous Minoan site. Other palace sites in Crete such as Phaistos have uncovered magnificent stone-built, multi-story palaces containing drainage systems, and the queen had a bath and a flushing toilet. The expertise displayed in the hydraulic engineering was of a very high level. There were no defensive walls to the complexes. By the 16th century BCE pottery and other remains on the Greek mainland show that the so-called Minoans had far-reaching contacts on the mainland. In the 16th century a major earthquake caused destruction on Crete and on Thera that was swiftly repaired.

But about 1500 BCE a massive volcanic explosion blew the island of Thera apart, casting more than four times the amount of ejecta as the explosion of Krakatoa and generating a tsunami in the enclosed Aegean that threw pumice up to 250 meters above sea level onto the slopes of Anaphi, 27 km to the east. Any fleet along the north shore of Crete was destroyed and John Chadwick suggests that the majority of Cretan fleets had kept the island secure from the Greek-speaking mainlanders. The catastrophe that overtook the Cretan palaces seems to have come about 1450 BCE, when all the sites save Knossos were destroyed by fires. Mycenaeans from the mainland took over Knossos, rebuilding some parts to suit them.

[Brooke]

Linear A is one of two scripts used in ancient Crete. They were discovered and named by Arthur Evans. Linear B was deciphered in the 1950s by Michael Ventris as representing an ancient form of Greek. Linear A remains an undeciphered script. Its decipherment is one of the "holy grails" of ancient scripts.

Though the two scripts share many of the same symbols, using the syllables associated with Linear B in Linear A writings produces words that are unrelated to any known language. This language has been dubbed Minoan or Eteocretan, and corresponds to a period in Cretan history prior to a series of invasions by Mycenean Greeks around 1450 BC.

Theories of decipherment

As the Minoan language is lost to the modern day, it is hard to be certain whether or not a given decipherment is the correct decipherment, or merely gibberish being generated by an incorrect mapping of symbols to sounds. However, the simplest approach to decipherment may to be to simply presume that the values of Linear A match more or less the values given to the fully translated Linear B script, used for Mycenean Greek. A site maintained by John Younger has a comprehensive list of known texts written in Linear A at [1]. Some religious formulae have been identified, some even bearing resemblance grammatically to the Etruscan language.

Since it remains undeciphered yet, it is difficult to ascertain specific features of this language. A connection has been noted between the sequence (Y)A-SA-SA-RA-ME, found in an oft-repeated formula inscribed on libation tables and a West Semitic fertility goddess known as Ashtoreth Yam (or "Lady of the Sea"). A possible marker for the genitive (or possessive) case may exist: -NA or -NE.

In 2001, the journal Ugarit-Forschungen, Band 32 [2] [3] published the article "The First Inscription in Punic—Vowel Differences in Linear A and B" by Jan Best, claiming to demonstrate how and why Linear A notates an archaic form of Phoenician. This was a continuation of attempts by Cyrus Gordon in finding connections between Minoan and West Semitic languages. His methodology drew widespread criticism. While some words may indeed be of Semitic origin (such as KU-RO, suspected to mean "total", cf. Sem *[kll] "whole, all"), there is as of yet no real success made in connecting Minoan with Semitic languages.

The only word deciphered so far, with certainty, the summarizing term KU-RO, can illustrate the depths of problems arising with the decipherment attempts. This word, though undoubtedly meaning "whole", could be of both Indo-European (*kwol), or Semitic (*kll) origin. And the word churu in Etruscan has the same meaning.

Around the same time, M. Tsikritsis, a Greek computer scientist and a text analysis specialist used a statistical and machine comparison of Linear A and Linear B symbols to conclude that Linear A was an early aeolic dialect of Greek, and essentially a form of Linear B with a variety of archaisms. Critics of this theory state that Linear A shows no detectable signs of the prototypical features recognizable from the Indo-European language group to which Greek belongs, let alone features resembling Greek itself.

Usually, it is a more or less accepted viewpoint to group the 'Minoan' language of the linear A inscriptions together with Eteocretan (its likely descendant), and Eteocypriot, into the group of Aegean languages, but without any precise knowledge about the underlying languages, their relationships, or grammatical structure.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crete

[Brooke]

'Religious' texts

A stone ladle from Troullos (given the Linear B values) reads:
a-ta-i-dju-wa-ja o-su-ga-re ya-sa-sa-ra-me u-na-ka-na-si i-pi-na-ma si-ru-te
•   a-ta-i-dju-wa-ja (or a-ta-i-θu-wa-ja?) is possibly the name of a goddess (possibly related to the Etruscan sun goddess Catha)
This 'word' also appears in another form, as a-ta-i-dju-wa-e. This could be a compound as -i-dju- also appears ing another 'word' ta-na-i-dju-u-ti-nu.
•   o-su-ga-re Probably a personal or place name
•   ja-sa-sa-ra-me as said above could be the name of the goddess Ashtoreth Yam. Another possibility for comparison from Hittite is hassussara (queen), with an added suffix -me, which would quite likely mean 'my' if it is indeed a Hittite word; this means that the word ya-sa-sa-ra-me might mean 'my queen'. It is not impossible, though it is a stretch, to suppose that this somehow morphed into the Greek goddess Hera. Another, though more tentative explanation would be, to compare it to the Hittite ashar (woman). Some have even suggested a comparison with Etruscan ais, meaning 'god'. Alternatively (and extremely tentatively), it could be related to the Etruscan verb alsase "dedicated". Ja-sa-sa-ra- appears with a number of suffixes. These are -me, -ma-na and -a-na-ne. Tentatively, these may be suffix pronouns at the end of a verb.
•   ja-sa-sa-ra-me = "I have dedicated" (Etruscan *mi alsase)
•   ja-sa-sa-ra-ma-na= "We have dedicated" (Etruscan mi + -ne plural (like the Japanese watashi/watashi-tachi}
•   ja-sa-ra-a-na-ne= "They have dedicated" (Etruscan 3rd person an + -ne plural)
•   u-na-ka-na-si is sometimes read together, and might be a compound, since examples exist with u-na-re-ka-na-ti (plural?), and u-na-ru-ka-[damaged]-ja-si. It might be comparable, as some suggest, with the Etruscan unchva cenase (bearing libations). If it is like the Etruscan it would support the theory that the -re suffix is the plural as with the Etruscan un libation (singular), unar libations (plural).

[rockessence]

In "The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales", Felice Vinci states:

 "As regards Crete, the «vast land» with «a hundred cities» and many rivers, which is NEVER REFERRED TO AS AN ISLAND by Homer, it corresponds to the Pomeranian region in the southern Baltic area, which stretches from the German coast to the Polish same. This explains why in the rich pictorial productions of the Minoan civilization, which flourished in Aegean Crete, we find no hint of Greek mythology, and ships are so scantily represented. It would also be tempting to assume a relationship between the name «Polska» and the Pelasgians, the inhabitants of Homeric Crete."

Mentioned above are the some of the vast quantities of ceramics native to the island of Crete and the other Mediterranean regions.  It is interesting to note that:

"... Moreover, in a Greek environment one would expect a surfeit of pottery, but this is not the case: in both poems tableware is made solely of metal or wood, while pottery is absent. The poet talks of metal vases, usually of gold or silver.
For example, in Ulysses's palace in Ithaca,

«a maid came to pour water from a beautiful
golden jug into a silver basin» (Od., I, 136-137).

People poured wine «into gold goblets» (Od., III, 472) and «gold glasses» (Od., I, 142). Lamps (Od., XIX, 34), cruets (Od., VI, 79) and urns, like the one (Il., XXIII, 253) containing Patroclus's bones, were made of gold. The vessels used for pouring wine were also of metal: when one of them fell to the ground, instead of breaking, it «boomed» (Od., XVIII, 397). In a word, on the one hand, the Homeric poems do not mention any ceramic pottery, which is typical of the Mediterranean world, but, on the other, they are strikingly congruent with the Northern world, where scholars find a stable and highly advanced bronze founding industry, compared to the pottery one, which was far more modest. As to the poor, they used wooden jugs (Od., IX, 346; XVI, 52), i.e. the cheapest and most natural form of vessel, considering the abundance of this material in the North: Esthonia and Latvia have a very ancient tradition of wooden beer tankards..."

Vinci suggests that migrations brought south the original tribes and place-names at the end of the "climatic optimum", forced by colder and colder weather to seek a more conducive climate (betw. 3500 and 2500 bc, I think).

[Boreas]

"Ancient Egypt Cities Leveled by Massive Volcano, Ash Find Suggests"


"Egyptian archaeologists today announced that they have unearthed
traces of volcanic ash on the northern coast of Sinai that date to
around 1500 B.C.â~@~T supporting accounts that a number of ancient
Egyptian settlements were buried by a massive volcanic eruption in
the Mediterranean. The archaeological team, led by Mohamed
Abdel Maqsoud of Egypt's SCA found houses, military structures,
and tombs encased in ash near the ancient Egyptian fortress of
Tharo, on the Horus military road (..) close to El Qantara. (..)
The archaeological mission also found a fort with four mud-brick
towers dating to Egypt's 18th dynasty (around 1550 to 1307 B.C.).
(...) Ikram added that the site also contains some of the earliest
known remains of horses found in Egypt. "

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070402-egypt-volcano.html

[Boreas]

"Atlantis" Eruption Twice as Big as Previously Believed, Study Suggests

Richard A. Lovett
for National Geographic News
August 23, 2006

A volcanic eruption that may have inspired the myth of Atlantis was up to twice as large as previously believed, according to an international team of scientists.

The eruption occurred 3,600 years ago on the Santorini archipelago, whose largest island is Thera. Santorini is located in the Aegean Sea about 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of modern-day Greece (map of Greece).

Atlantis myth


The massive explosion may have destroyed the Minoan civilization based on nearby Crete.

Writing in this week's issue of the journal Eos, a team of Greek and U.S. researchers estimate that the volcano released 14 cubic miles (60 cubic kilometers) of magma—six times more than the infamous 1883 eruption of Krakatau (Krakatoa).

Only one eruption in human history is believed to have been larger: an 1815 explosion of Tambora, in Indonesia, which released 24 cubic miles (100 cubic kilometers) of magma.

The researchers, partially funded by the National Geographic Society, obtained the new data by conducting the first seismic survey of the seabed near Santorini. Previously, scientists had been forced to guess the size of the eruption based on ash deposits found in Turkey, Crete, Egypt, and the Black Sea.

A Hundred Feet Thick

Using techniques similar to those employed by oil companies to search for offshore deposits, the research team found a ring of volcanic deposits extending all the way around the Santorini archipelago.

The deposits averaged 100 feet (30 meters) thick and extended about 19 miles (30 kilometers) in all directions, says Haraldur Sigurdsson, a volcanologist at the University of Rhode Island in Kingston, who led the research.

During the eruption, the material that formed the deposits would have plunged into the sea as pyroclastic flows—hot, fast-moving mixtures of gas, ash, and molten rock. As these hit the water, they would have kicked up massive tsunamis.

"Atlantis" Eruption Twice as Big as Previously Believed, Study Suggests

"In a very similar setting, [the milder] Krakatau produced 100-foot [30-meter] tsunami waves," Sigurdsson said. Other pyroclastic flows would have been comprised of pumice—a frothy rock so light it floats.

Santorini volcano may have given rise to Atlantis myth



These flows, known as overwater flows, would have zoomed across the sea in scalding waves of debris, eventually hitting land many miles away. An overwater flow from Krakatau killed more than a thousand people on the coast of Sumatra, 25 miles away from the site of the eruption. The devastation caused by Santorini—once a single island—would have been far worse.

"We have to scale the effects of both the tsunami and overwater pyroclastic flows to the Santorini eruption," Sigurdsson said. His team, he adds, will soon begin studies in Crete and western Turkey looking for the remnants from such flows.

Jelle Zeilinga de Boer, an emeritus professor of geology at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, notes that the strength of the eruption also depends on its duration. "We don't know whether this came out in one flow or a number," he said. There is some archaeological evidence, he adds, that people returned to the devastated area and started rebuilding, only to be blasted anew by the next round of activity.

Massive Destruction

Whether it occurred in one large blast or in a series of smaller events, the eruption produced massive devastation. In his book Volcanoes in Human History, de Boer links the eruption to the demise of the Minoan civilization.

The seafaring Minoan culture was based on Crete, which is only a few dozen miles from Thera. At the time of the eruption, they dominated that part of the ancient Mediterranean. When Thera erupted, the Minoans would have been clobbered by tsunamis, overwater pyroclastic flows, and fires from oil lamps knocked over by the eruption's shockwave.

Famine, plague, and a destruction of the Minoans' shipping economy would also have followed, de Boer says. The eruption may also have had an enormous impact on Mediterranean mythology.

"I have no doubt that every myth is based on some event, and so is the myth of Atlantis," the University of Rhode Island's Sigurdsson said. "An event of this magnitude must have left its imprint."

Sigurdsson also sees traces of Santorini in a Greek poem called the Theogony, composed by Hesiod about 800 years after the eruption. The poem describes an epic battle between giants and the Greek gods and includes imagery of a great battle far out at sea.

Hesiod must have picked up the story as folklore handed down from survivors close enough to see the event but not close enough to know what happened, Siggurdsson says.

"He uses all the terminology one would use in describing an eruption," he said. "The people who lived close enough to see that it was a volcano were all killed. [The rest] could only describe it in supernatural terms."


www.nationalgeographic.com

[docyabut]

Except it was a  near a country now called Gades:)

[Qoais]

Hi Brooke

I would like a critique of my theory and I would appreciate for people to do their damndest to poke some holes in it!

What if we have it wrong here and Crete was actually the Athens that Plato wrote about??

If we look at Nasa Worldwind or Google, we see a real mess in the ocean between Greece, Crete, and Turkey.  There's some areas where the underwater drop-offs look really deep.  Personally, I think that was all of a piece at one time, with maybe a few outlying islands.  The priest told Solon that Greece was 9000 years old, in this time round, but how much older might it have been before?  The priest told Solon that nations had risen and fallen many times, and the land mass was very different farther back, so Athens could well have once-upon-a-time been on Crete.  They do keep re-naming their cities don't they, with the same names?  Especially if it's in honour of the Gods or Goddesses.

However, be that as it may, how does Athens in Crete, change the location of Atlantis?

How "scientific" are we going to be in this brainstorming?

Plato described Athens first - as a long narrow peninsula - having lost a lot of it's top soil to the elements.  If Crete was attached to the mainland at one one, and was not an island, would it be considered a long narrow peninsula with no top soil?

[rockessence]

Some years back there was core-drilling done in the eastern Med. which delineated the ash plume in that area.  From the NY Times article's projection, it appeared that Delos in the north and the Siwa oasis in the south were just ouside of the plume.  I was wondering, when I saw that , if they existed as oraculer temples before Thera or sprang up as a result of Crete becoming unusable....