Elephants in America

[Bianca]

When you ask him to cite references, Cleasterwood, he claims he has Alzheimer's......

He just only succeeds in derailing pretty well every thread he "darkens", just like he
just did this one.  Or people avoid it like the plague.   Just like any TROLL does.....

P I T Y !!!

[BlueHue]

When you ask him to cite references, Cleasterwood, he claims he has Alzheimer's......

He just only succeeds in derailing pretty well every thread he "darkens", just like he
just did this one.  Our people avoid it like the plague.   Just like any TROLL does.....P I T Y !!!

.

DEAR   ->    BIANCA, 

     The villified Doctor  of geology VELIKOVSKY ( 1895-1980.)had discovered around 1949 that the traditional TIMELINE devised by Archaeologist Brugsch ( in 1855.)based on priest-MANETHOON's Aegyptiaka,( dd: 258 bc.) was faulty and he spent 500 pages larded with footnote-references to proof that beyond doubt. 

Dr.V's TIMELINE-default- discovery of 500 spook years in egyptian history came about when he compared the deeds of egyptian Kings of the 6-th, 12-th 18-th and 22-th Dynasties and concluded that these were variant-versions from ONE Dynasty only the 18-th Dyn. which inexplicably was split and dispersed over other epochs.  The Dates of the 18-th Dyn, are falsh .   The dates of the 22-th Dyn. are however the REAL-Dates for the 18-th Dyn.

Thus Dr.V.could equate Pharaohs TUTMOSE-1,-2,-3  easily with: the sequence SAUL- DAVID & SOLOMON= sons-of-RE

Despite his rejected 'REVISED-Chronology, others -without mentioning him out of shame-have attemted the same but named this  NEW-Chronology ''>> NC-Pope & Dr.DAVID  ROHL.  (+ Ahmed Osman.)   The only Faithfull ' Revised- Chronologist ', left is Prof. Gunnar HEINSOHN from Bremen Univ. with his ' SARGON's MIRROR, in the wake, style and manner of Dr.V. in which book ( 1989.)he explains that the FIRST babylonian Dynasty is an inserted- copy of the much  later Achaemid-Persian Dynasty.

Yet most professional Egyptologists who had spent a lifetime remembring all the intricate Reign-Data of mostly shadowy-Pharaohs, felt slighted by a Tall-tale-telling funny-Story telling Interloper that they subsequently named a Scientific-Charlatan an ancient-history-Heretic, blasphemous interloper, a man that upset the egyptian chronology Applecart etc.etc.

ALAS he himself had, for copy reasons, avoided to make a TIMELINE-Chart other than some minimal scetches.
This lukehole, I attempted to fill by my TIMELINE-Chart( 17 Mb.) based on his discoveries in 1949. for indeed by this ommission he has kept even his own ' followers ' and adherends ' groping-in-the dark.'

Most reactions that I got from ThreadPost-readers was: " Colourfull " but I never got constructive reactions beyond the phrase ' Colourfull '.

in Litterary research, professional scholars are bound to look for evidential-reference sources footnotes and such, but when these arfe not read anyway, what practical use do they have to the casual reader or watcher of E.G. Discovery-Channel-TV. or National-Geographic, who were desintrested in even READING my TIMELINE.

'Smiley', QUAIS, GEORGEOS, TOM HERBERT and JULIA have SEEN but not read( ' my') TIMELINE and thus they have learned NOTHING from just glancing at it.

If Dr Velikovsky( since-1949-.) has failed to attract worldwide support for his heavily referenced TIMELINE-discovery, why would I go through that trouble with my Alzheimer's ailment !?

All my discoveries were referenced by Dr Velikovsky at one time or another in one of his 6 Books on the subject and many people who claim to have read these books (-partly-) are still waiting on SOME -other-AUTHORITY, that  by references will verify his findings.

These Autorities exist and were equally ignored or not read properly, but the ZEST of their Commentaries was typically, that Dr. Velikovsky made no discoveries of his own but just needled-together the connected-references of others together and claimed these as his own discoveries.

Still others say that he made unbased assumptions and changed ancient (-egyptian-)Chronology without authorithy, ignoring the many footnotes ( that they did not read because they were biased against Dr.V. anyway. )

His main discovery is in having READ the lives of the 150-odd-Pharaohs from Dynasty- ONE untill DYNASTY-30, and by by just COMPARING  them came to the conclusion that some DYNASTIES were just copies of previous ones.

Ofcourse scholars were asking for references which he could not give for this notion since nobody else before him commented on this discovery, thus the scholars said that by not giving references, he was making it up.
But when he subsequently DID make reference, nobody read them.(>> Ages-in-Chaos;1949-50/ The SEA-Peoples-in: 1970-71./ Rameses-2  in:  1975.) his original publisher( Doubleday-) was boycotted.

In 1975 he was officially invited at a University-symposium to defend his TIMELINE-Theory, but his opponents were mainly astrophysicists because professional Egyptologists, declined to attend, and he was booed away by Historians that knew neither Bible/ Tenach nor Talmud nor ancient Egyptian history.

I see here some paralells with the FIRST MELOS-Conference about ATLANTIS in 2005.

My ' ABSTRACT ' was rejected mainly because I wrote it in ARRIAL, ( which is the same FONT that I am writing in now.)whilst the Ballot-Comitty wanted it rendered exclusively in Times-new-Roman.

A list of 25 REFFERENCE-POINTS was recommended that had to be quoted in the Abstracts," BRYNWNS ' afterwards sent me these and 25 others to comment upon to prove that my Theory of Atlantis in ADEN/Arabia was not on. So I copied her List and put my ANSWERS BEHIND THEM WHICH MADE THE post A BIT TOO LARGE TO read, thus even ' As I was saying Earlier' she had no stomach or time, to verify my 50  answers to her own  50-reference-points.( in AR, but I ignore / forget, the POST-Number.)

As I was saying earlier:

PLATO's Atlantis SAGA, suffered some considerable but largely ignored DATA_LOSSes, from the interference of the Roman Compilators.

ANACHRONISMS in PLATO's Atlantis-Saga:

The fact that english readers are not disturbed by Plato's anachronisms and thus do -not- comment on these ' minor-detaills ' is pretty tale-telling for the way in which  Forum commentators did not deal with other minor faults that escaped their wit.

FOR instance PLATO could not have given REFERENCE to historic Events that happened after his death yet these are interwoven in his Dialogues:  ATHENS & HELLENES did not exist in Atlantis, because the proper names were: ATHE & HELL/=HADES. because ATHENS means just 'NEW_ ATHE (- and Atlantis' memory as a perfect State was later marred by vilification, Atlantis-Utopia became HADES or the Underworld( Hindu >>from ' Atala ',  to: ' Patala'.)

REFERENCES to ' ASIA & LYBIA ' are suspect too,  because the ' ASIA & LYBIA ' of Plato's time( dd.366 bc.) and before Year 1000 bc were entirely different countries " 5.000 " miles apart. LYBIA used to be ERYTRAEA and ASIA used to be: ARABIA, it was because of ' Völkerwanderung ' Nation-re-settlement, by Atlantean colonists that the names ASIA & LYBIA were re-used in the colonist states: Greece was re-named in 1000 bc with the Nine-rivers of HADES and the Island BOEOTIA was a re-naming of DJIBUTI.

The DIMENTIONS that PLATO mentions were entirely correct( for present day ADEN,)but were also enlarged by a DECIMAL probably when Homer exagerated them in his lyric Metrums, and this competed badly, with Plato's Prose. No mistake like in exchange of Egyption icons for 100 or 1.000 were the cause of this exaggeration.

BEAR with me how the EXAGGERATION by a decimal came about: Plato speaks of  TEN- ISLES yet describes only One( The nine others being of similar nature.)

There were NINE( side- canals , to a main-canal, in Atlantis( or only ONE ?) the 2.million inhabitants were probably only 20.000, the circumference of the PLAIN 2.000 by 3.000 Miles (' Stadia ".)may have been only Meters.

Even these TEN Kings may have only been ONE or Tree: Atlas; Epimetheus & Prometheus( Sometimes: Chretheus. or Xuthus.)These are well known Rollmodels in Greek Myth, but they did not live in pre-historic calcholitic-Times. not from 10.000 bc. ! ! ! !

GREECE was settled by Greek (= Pelgasken: Achaians,Danaides & Ionians.)only from 1000 bc thus by any ( even falsh-)standards no Atlantic attack could have taken place in Greece nor Athens because these did not exist BEFORE Atlantis demise, yet every Atlantologist believes that Atlantis Attacked Athens  ( in 10.000 bc.? ? )

NEW-ATHE, or Athens, was founded in 1000 bc by the settlers from 'Atlantis-Metropolis':  GELANOR, a relative (> uncle.)of DANAOS, who came there 50 years later as a refugy from his brother Egyptos, and established a REPUBLIC/ of ATHE.

In 900 bc CECROPS, the egyptian vassal-king, from Atlantis-Metropolis founded the first KINGDOM-of-Athens, and in the REIGN of his son ERECHTHEUS, in 855 bc that GREAT TSUNAMI-or seismic wave that shook Atlantis(= metropoli.)from it's foundations took place.

CONCLUSION:

Atlantis in the Atlantic-Ocean as an Island-Realm is a fallacy from a mis-interpretation of Plato's geo/ topographic-jargon. " island " means Promotory or CAPE or 'Point-Atlantis' which only was named a single island because of a simple shallow man made-isthumus, 'separating it from a mainland ".as a Tombolo.  Ras-ADEN means the " Raised-City of Aden ".

ANY Professional VULCANOLOGIST would instandly recognize Atlantis as a vulcano-based Kingdom, but for some odd reason no Vulcanologists was invited nor was any of the present Atlantologists familiar with Vulcanology which left room for the flash interpretation that Atlantis destruction and submergence, was caused by the Thera-Explosion in: 1450 bc.( the real date of the Minoan-Crete-destruction is 855 bc.)

ATLANTIS was originally written as ATH-Lantis
Plato's Atlantis and Atlantis Royal-City-Posidonis', or rather Atlantis-Metropolis,  was originally named; ATHE or : RAS-ADEN in Arabia/ Yemen.. . . . It's TIMELINE was: 1075-855 bc, The PRODUCE of Atlantis/Aden was FRANCINCENSE. DAN also means Land-of- Dan.

In the Koran, ATLANTIS is named LAND-of-AD- or LAND-of-DAN, which is equated with ADEN-in Yemen.   Aden was once  CATHAN, or KETHURA.(= keftiu or CITTIM.)


This REALM of Atlantis=ADEN comprised religious-monastryLand in jargon: LAND in the THIRD-HAND of EGYPT also called ' MIDDLE '-Egypt as opposed to UPPER & LOWER-Egypt. This Middle-Egypt was an invisible Never-Never land, a Priestly Aristocracy of-AMON, thus the HOLY-LAND(= of Palestine or AMMON.)Thus the Christian/Jewish "HOLY-LAND "was originally The HOLY-LAND-of-God-AMUN.")

AFTER the Last TSUNAMI in 855 bc the Assyrians took over the HOLY-LAND and used the Proceeds to wage a War of agression, against Egypt and the rest of the (Middle-) EAST. Only SETI-ONE & RAMESSES-2 attempted to regain and keep Atlantis/ADEN, which meanwhile was RE-Named " KAR-CHEMIS " or: ' City-of-Moses.")

When RAMMESSES-2 in his THIRD Campagn ( dd revised chronology:605 bc.)was superceded by Mursillis-2 and Hatusillis-3(= Nabopolassar & Nebukadnesar.)and abandoned Atlantis/ADEN on the treacherous advice of his First Prophet-of-Amun: JEREMIAS, he started to built GIANT statues of himself, whilst he left his LOYAL SUBJECTS in Aden as the FIRST HOLOCAUST victims, to be deported to Babylon. The 'common/official date of Ramesses-2 as 1200 is falsh.

When AKNATEN lost his TENEHU, or ACHAD(= ADEN.)he rebuild a ficticius "Atlantis'that he named ACHAD or " AKET-en-ATEN ". and he crowned his two sons with the CROWN for Prince-of -Atlantisa, the TATENEN-or HEB-HEB-CROWN with the ONE ( or THREE-)Baskets- with- a- Sundisk on top , accompagnied by SIX snakes.
THIS was a pretence of possession of ADEN, at a time that it was allready in the hands of the ennemy for 30 years.

The ATEN or ATHON was NOT a Sun-Disk but a Moon-Disk( from:  Phea-Athon.)hence the Cananites Amorites and Amalakit-Hyksos were named in greek: PU-Phaeaceans.) from PUNT-Land.

The fact that the Kings of RETENU / ISRAEL, appealed in VAIN for  Egypt's military support and were instead reprimanded by the expeditionary force send by ACH-en-ATEN's general  Rechmire for resisting the Assyrian Vassal tribute demands is a good indication, how Assyrian territory expanded ' unofficially ' from Cilicia to the Gulf-of-Aden.

Plato's OCEANUS or ATLANTIC_SEA was the Gulf-of-ADEN as a brance from the 'TREAL'Ocean(= indian-Ocean.)when the Atlantea-DESASTER refugies started to colonize Greece they renamed the Egyptian BLUE-SEA as the WORLD-OCEAN, or EARTH-ENCOMPASSING Sea, which in Latin reads as MEDIA-TERRA-
NEA

ALL Atlantologists at MELOS-1/ 2005 ignorantly assumed that the present Atlantic Ocean is the very same as the ATLANTIKUM - -  PELAGIOUS of Plato.

These amateur historians simply ignore that this OCEAN's original name was just; " SPANISH_SEA " the namechange occurred in 1648 -ad, at the TREATY of MÜNSTER in Germany instignated by the Dutch participants for a very good if-silly reason.

The Dutch rebels waged a cessession-War with SPAIN from 1568-until 1648 (or 1649.)which was granted by Spain in a Treaty at Münster, ( mainly because at the End the Dutch got british fleet support.)

Yet at the Treaty conference at Münster the Dutch were supposedly the big winners of the 80-years-WAR and thus they demanded that the SPANISH- SEA, that they had to cross constantly to reach their Dutch East-Indian-Colonies(= indonesia.)wasa to change it's name as a token that the DUTCH had won a major War with Spain, various names were proposed: German SEA, British SEA, FRENCH-SEA ! but not a Dutch-Sea-ofcourse-! So the Dutch-party at this Peace-Treaty opted for a more 'Neutral-Name'such as a ficticious but perfectly honest classical name as: " Atlantic-Ocean ".

As for the Theory of ATLANTIS -in-SPAIN: King Alphonse decreed in 1500,( or 1490, opinions vary.) that SPAIN was: ' HESPERIS 'and although that ' Notion 'made MARROCO automatically the AtLANTIS of Plato, Hesperis's  ' King HEBRUS ' had once married Atlas's daughter CABIRA, and thus HESPERIS/= SPAIN was the HERITOR of ATLANTIS a simple deduction for simple minds.

By this ficticious 'NOTION, King Ferdinand SANCTIONED his occupation of MARROCO from 1500-until a counter-attack from the King of Mauretania in 1515.)

Ever since SPAIN declared Gibraltar and mellilla as the supposedly 'PILLARS-of-HERCULES' and placed them on the Royal Coins with caption' PLUS-ULTRA'

ALAS for Pilot-Major COLUMBUST he was originally looking not for ashorter way to india but for ATLANTIS, various regions in South-America still bear Names from ' Atlantis ' ( like YUKATAN>>for JOKTAN, in Oman.)

Not to be made a fool of, Columbust had to cange his ships 'diary' so he re-wrote it striking the words Atlantis, and purporting that he had lost the original Log.

I apologize beforehand when I have to denounce the - 55-Oceanic ATLANTOLOGISTS( INCLUDING 'dear GEORGEOS',  that by their natural-egyptology- ignorance all Atlantean researchers or Atlantologists with their -respected-theories are barking-up the wrong tree, my THEORY is not ' just- another- Theory ' about Atlantis, because I have ( generally-)proven that the other Theories on the Subject are incomplete and faulty they have not found Atlantis, I have.

Dr KÜHNE has mentioned that SCHERIA which Odysseus visited was similar -if-not-the-same as-Atlantis.  A Fine statement, but he too ignored that ESHERIA is the -still existant- name ( Locally.) for the Frankincense fields at ADEN, in Arabia.)

Would you still want a list of ' REFERENCES 'added or won't you read it neither ? ? ?

IF you have not done so yet, PLEASE  READ my  SUBscript instead, THANK  YOU    (      I appologize for presenting you with thix lengthly statement in defence of my Theory.   

 PS I Loved your AKNATON Article, dosn't he sound a bit like  ' PYGMALION '  in his effort for a peacefull religion ? ?.)

Sincerely      "  BlueHue "      DD. 11 Aug. 2007

[BlueHue]

So a flying elephant is not an elephant that can fly?  Okay, whatever you say, BlueHue.

Whew!  I'm starting to see pink elephants!

DEAR - -> TOM,

About more FLYING-Objects:

  The VIMANA-carts that the HINDU-Warriors used were driven by FLYING Elephants, so you see that this Object is no invention nor Fabulation of myself !   You will have to Blame Poëtry-Jargon by Maha-Rishi-VALMIKI( dd 400 bc.) for that !

They were just ordinary Elephant-riders( Like God-SHIVA, on his steed ' ARAWATAR.')but in Poëtic Jargon, they became Flying Warriors on Flying Elephants ! in Flying battle-Carts.

BUT there is a LOST connection, iconographically, between the HIPPOCAMPUS & The white-BULL-Elephant.

On the oldest Pottery pictures, Princess EUROPA is plainly-seated on a Hippocampus, after it's demonisation, this hippocampus became a winged white Bull, in the END-phase of the standard helenistic-illustration Princess-Europa is no longer seated on a Hippocampus nor Winged-Water-Bull, but on an ordinary White-Bull, which has thus LOST the DATA of the original Picture.

When determing the original appearance of the GREEK HEROES, we by neccesity, have to REFER to the Most ancient and not the most recent depiction of Greek Heroes.( and God(-desses !)

Thus forinstance HERACLES is depicted naked, seldom bearded, clad only, in a small-lion- Backskin with a tree-club.

YET< The oldest pictures show Heracles not only bearded but, fully LONG bearded, not naked but fully dressed in a chaincoat with a more than bodysize LEOPARD-not Lion-SKIN wrapped around him, and not with a wood-Club, but a metal Battle-Ax in his hand.

NOW I ask YOU, WHICH is the ' REAL ' Heracles, the naked one or the ' over-dressed one ' ? !

Thus to come back to Princess-Europa and her sequence of Pictures:
WHICH was the real ' Princess-Europa ' ? The Black-Haired Maiden on a Hippocampus wearing a Purple Woolen dress, wielding a Stick, or the Blond Maiden in the negligée holding a flower sitting on an ordinary White Bull. . .? ?

To remind you of the Story, which you undoubtebly will have read- but- forgotten: This Princess was abducted by ZEUS in the form of a WHITE- BULL.

But that is odd, is not it ? ? ? Because a HIPPOCAMPUS does not nearly look like any ' WHITE-BULL' and yet the oldest picture shows this Dame,  sitting on a Hippocampus NOT a WHITE- BULL

CONCLUSION:
A HIPPOCAMPUS is also a WHITE_-BULL, and a White BULL is also a WHITE -Elephant-BULL.
The reason that the WHITE ELEPHANT is meant but an -ordinary- White bull is shown is both simple & silly:

With yje Greeks the Picture of an ELEPHANT  even the mentioning of an Elephant is TABOO, thus the artisans found ways to pictuture an Elephant without being strung by the TABOO: an ordinary White BULL thus stood for an Elephant untill even this notion was FORGOTTEN in Classical/ Hellenistic Greece.

THUS, these ordinary white-bulls ( of- Helios.)that ODYSSEUS's men met and ate and were defended by the (Oceanic-)Nymphs THOÖSA & LAMPETIA, deputies of POSEIDON, were either Hippocampii or white Elephants but NOT ordinary White-Bulls !( which did and still do not  not exist in Greece.)The WHITE BULLS of Greek Myth lived OUTSIDE present GREECE and were thus only met by Odysseus outside Greece and thus not a feature of Greek but Punician-Greek Myth.


White-Elephant-BULLS were the steed(-s) of God Poseidon that had the power to cause Earth-Quakes and inundations, and when ATLANTIS was inundated, THESE White-Elephants were blamed and Taboo-ed( which means that they were scotfree to be killed without reparcussions.

THE FACT that ODYSSEUS WAS reprimanded to have taken some Bulls from a large herd on TIRINACIA(= Danakil-depression, situated, at the AFAR-Triangle.)proves that at that Point in GREEK History, these White Elephants were not YET made TABOO.

Naturally when I say that Princess Europa was an Egyptian Queen of Atlantis that crossed the Aegean SEA to Crete this sounds implausable.

I go even further to say that this Princess-Europa is mentioned as a GRAND- Powerfull LADY in the Bible, she met MOSES who was very impressed by her and her REALM her Name was TARBIS, which is a word-shortage-corruption, from TARA-ARABIS which is the oldest mentioning of a PRINCESS-EUROPA.

Since EUROPA is one of the nicknames of Atlantis this Princess who married her Father ASTERION in CRETE(= the " Land-of the HOLY "in south Arabia)then she was also the FIRST -soverain-Queen of Atlantis,maybe the rollmodel of French author  Benoits Touaregg Queen 'ANTEIA'. . . 'But her real name was SITA-KAMOSE the FIRST 2nd-Phrophet-of-AMUN in ADEN.  and she may have looked like Filmactress Lucy Lawless in the( Australian-)Myth-Sequell'
of that WORRIOR-Princess, damned I forget her movie-name. . . let me think. . .XENIA. . that's it.

CONCLUSION:

Before Year 855 bc the Arabian WHITE-Elephant-BULL was known in Greece and illegally hunted by ever-hungry Seafarers who plucked these unsuspecting animals munching SEA-Weeds on the Arabian Red-SEA-coasts.  ( Later they were chased into inland Seas of Africa and perished as harvest-pests.)

On Vases prior to 855 bc these White-Bulls were indeed depicted as Elephants but afterwards tabooed and replaced by Hippocampus(= SEA-HORSES.) or winged Bulls. after 300 bc even these wings'just fell-off'and the Erstwhile Elephant became a bull.

Because of ther TABOO after 855 bc, many vases in sight with Elephants on them, may have been deliberally destroyed if not overpainted with Hippocampii. in Atlantis these WHITE Elephant BULLS, had a GODLIKE Status and it is not impossible that the GOD Poseidon was originally drawn as a man with an Elephant- Bull's head.

In that category are little examples of Myths about Elephants in Greek left but everybody knows about the Minotauran-BULL in the Labyrinth on Crete, and the Indian BULL-Headded person called: GANEESHA, to that we might add the well known Saga of the Deportation by another White-Bull this Princess-Europa who went from PUNT to Crete, or in reallity: From PUNTA-Land or british-Somalia across the Danakill desert to ADEN.

We must not forget that Greece did not exist BEFORE Atlantis destruction thus the BULK of Greek Myth did not take place in present GREECE, but in Atlantis -proper- thus in ADEN & around the GULF-of-ADEN.

When the Atlanteans fled from the destruction they  colonized Greece and re-named the egyptian BLUE-SEA, by two new names:"The AEGEAN or Media-Terra-Nean-SEA" both comming from the  " World encompassing SEA "  (or: indian- OCEANUS) thus the geography of the REGION of the Gulf-of-Aden, was recreated by the Atlantean GEOGRAPHERS or CARTOPGRAPHISTS in the Mediaterranean.

Thus the FOUR yearly ' Bull-Hunting ' in Atlantis was just a murder of an Elephant to sacrifice that animal to his own STATUE.

In Atlantis, the White-Elephant Bull was called a Guardian -of-the-Temple by the name of ( Golden-)CHERUBIN, the Giraffes that lived on the other TEMPLE-Hill were called: ( Silver-)SERAPHINS.  The CHERUBINS were able to sing within the reign of Human hearing.

In the KORAN, the PEOPLES-of-AD were advised to listen to the pre-Tsunami-warnig voice of HUD, ( Hud is probably a media-shortening of arabian-'Elephant '.)when they did not and a Tsunami( that they held for a Dustcloud/hurricane.) proved to be a Typhoon instead, They blamed it on the Arabian Elephant and made that species extinct.

However some animals escaped the massacre and swam to india where they still retained their godly status and are placed in the coat-of-arms of Buddist Countries, as WHITE-Elephants.

The Sacret Bulls of India is a late religious devellopment and originally pertained not to ordinary (=dutch-)cows but to this White-Elephant-Bull.

Thus it is the case that for fully 2000 years the Hindu's in india have been worshipping the WRONG  BULL, because of a later imported ( senceless-) TABOO, on White-Elephants-worshipping ! ! !

During the period of 1980-1989 the indian bushbandit VERRAPPAN was able to ambush 9.000 tamed Elephants in india before he was killed himself and to thinki that the very NAME' Elephant " means:  " GOD-of-PUNicia "! )

POSEIDON is supposed to have founded this City of Atlantis-Metropolis(= ADEN/ Catramotitae or CATHAY/ Catan=DAN. The MAN or KING/ ATHA-RAS who personified this atlantean Elepgant God, wass -naturally also dressed as an Elephant.

Thus the GOD RESHEPH had a White Elephant's TRUNK for a headdress and two cartonnage Elephant's theeth for a Headgear, which OSIRIS took over hor His White Crown, but with the two TUSKS changed into two Ostrich feathers ! Furthermore the pleated artificial Beard of the Pharaoh's also stood for an Elephant's trunk and had originally not a straight ending but a curved one.

The belly or skirt belt of all Pharaoh's was made of an( white-) Elephant's Tail( which was longer than that swaggerstick of his grey cousin.)And one of the Pharaonic Royal Titles was: "Strong-as-a-Bull "by which was meant the Taboo-ed Elephant-Bull.

In ALL the TWELVE labours of HERACLES an Element of the Elephant-Bulls of Atlantris was involved.    These Elephant-BULLS had female names and were known p[opularly in the Bible as the ' BABES-of-PARADISE ". in Greek Myths the SIRENS were Singing-Elephants.

The Belt of Amason-Queen Hyppolytta(= Elephant/ Horse-rider.)was ofcourse an Elephant's tail.
these Lions of Nemedia the Hinde of Cytheria, the Big BOAR and even the DOG CEREBERUS were differend ( perhaps caracter-)names for the same Elephant-species.

EURYSTHEUS (= actually Amenhotep-4.)sent Heracles to fetch these ' Bulls ', but this may have been a reminicense of the Four year ritual of killing ONE Bull thus Heracles must have spent at least 40 years in the service of his hated half-brother to do that, which in the compilated version of heracles-labours was reduced to perhaps, -one to four-years.

Maybe I have read more about the WHITE-Elephants than I can remember, but I trust that You are now more fully informed about this SUBJECT THAN BEFORE, I'D  LIKE TO SEE,  THAT OTHERS FOLLOW MY FOOTSTEPS ABOUT  RESEARCHING FOR THIS MYSTERIOUS WHITE ELEPHANT IN THE HISTORY OF ATLANTIS. They may have been a special breeded branch of Elephants that did not occur anywhere else in the World,so looking for Atlantis where Elephant fossils, of any other kind,  are bountifull may have no sence.

In india the 16, or just four main quarters of the World's winds-dial are represented by White Elephants, I forget their names but despite the Male impression, these Elephant names are all female-names.

FINALLY a last biblical-anecdote: WHEN the queen of SHEBA(= Hatsepsut/ Batsheba.)was asked by her councellor where in the World she got wise to the existance of that wise King SOLOMON(= Thutmose-3.)The Queen answered that shew was so informed by the ' whisperings 'of a ' little-singing-Bird ' called: " SAPHIRA '. That Bird was actually a metaphor for, an ( white-) Elephant.

PS
You asked for ancient Elephant Information, than, You get Elephant information, what more do you want that I have not already told you on the subject ?  References by Buanca's whish ? ? I am sorry but my Alzheimer's Disease limits my memmory-capacity I am satisfied that I could remember some parts that I read, I do write notes and thus sould have no hinder from Alheimer's short memory, but I lost my notes too by some stupid Ex-neighbour's un-insured-burglaries.

Sincerely    " BlueHue   "      dd.  August 15. 2007

PS-2
  READ my damned SUBscript and comment on THAT, if the above is TOO much in one sitting.? ? ?

[Bianca]

   E M A N U E L   V E L I K O V S K Y





Velikovsky was a passionate ZIONIST, and this DID steer the focus of his work. 

                             
The ENTIRE body of his work could be said to stem from an attempt to solve the following problem:   
   

To Velikovsky there appeared to be insufficient correlation in the written or archeological records 

between Jewish history (as recorded in BIBLICAL and other such sources) and the history of the adjoining       

nations (especially Egypt).

His whole focus was to bring the importance of the Israel of the past into world recognition.
 

[cleasterwood]

Everyone has their own agenda and will read things into old texts just to find support for their theories.  (Take Georgios for instance.)  It's when they start catching the attention of intelligent people that the flaws in their research are revealed.  Sure you can challenge mainstream theory, but you'd best have a solid ground to stand on or it'll get torn apart. 
Blessed be,
Lynn

[Bianca]

FROM:

WIKIPEDIA


From 1924 to 1939 Velikovsky lived in what was then Palestine, practicing medicine (both general practice and psychiatry), and also psychoanalysis (he had studied under Sigmund Freud's pupil, Wilhelm Stekel in Vienna).

During this time he had a dozen or so papers published in medical and psychoanalytic
journals, including, in 1930, the first paper to suggest epilepsy is characterized by abnormal
encephalograms, now part of the routine diagnostic procedure, and papers in Freud's Imago, including a
precocious analysis of Freud's own dreams.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________


Cleasterwood:

As you can see from the above, the man was NEVER trained in any field related to Archaeology.  Granted,
he WAS  a good MD and psychiatrist.

So, make your own deductions.

Love and Peace,
b

[BlueHue]

Everyone has their own agenda and will read things into old texts just to find support for their theories.  (Take Georgios for instance.)  It's when they start catching the attention of intelligent people that the flaws in their research are revealed.  Sure you can challenge mainstream theory, but you'd best have a solid ground to stand on or it'll get torn apart. 
Blessed be,
Lynn

WHAT everybody seems to forget is that Dr Velikovsky   studied at the Library of the Univ. of PRINCETON in New-Yersey and had many contacts in( ancient-) Archaeological fields .

In fact his learned contacts were a sort of INTERNET browsers avant la Lettre ony by mail not electronic mail.

One might thus say that Dr. V's-findings were supported covertly by the established scientific community, it was the TEXT-book publishers that got nervous about his rocking the Applecart.

Sincerely "BlueHue"     dd Aug 25- 2007.

[Bianca]

Look up his bio, BH.  He was in the States a very short time.

He was a very good             P S Y C H I A T R I S T.........

[BlueHue]

Look up his bio, BH.  He was in the States a very short time.

He was a very good             P S Y C H I A T R I S T.........

                  
AS  I  understood ,
the man lived in Princeton New-Jersey from before the 2nd World-War until early 1980 when he died, thus 44 years seems to You a ' very short time ' ? ?

  in my innocent-childhood, He was my first and only contact to ancient Egyptology and a precursor of my ' BlueHue ' theory.

   By the way I was told in childhood that Poët VIRGIL or Virgillius, was the Biographer & Private-secretary of Triumvir/Octavian and later Emp.Augustus and fabled the origin of ROME753 bc with Ceasar's descendancy of Troy's prince AENEAS or his son ASCANIUS. You belittled me by saying that Virgil died before Augustus (= 10 bc & -14 bc.) but as I said, "Nobody is perfect.(So I am not a perfect Fool !) 

Nobody is perfect in all Arts, but Dr( of Geology.)VELIKOVSKY,  was not a ' Jack-of-all- Trades ', none of his published Theorems have ever been proven WRONG.

One theory of his was touted to be totally CRAZY namely that PETROLEUM and thus ' Hydro-Carbon', was formed by rock-pressure in ancient siltlayers and not at all by dead marine proto-plankton , for this view he was villified made to look a crook.

EVERYBODY in high-school science class has learned that Petroleum consisted of dead bodies of Marine Plakton, no doubt about this ! ! !

The geologists always found marine-plankton remains in all Petroleum sources not realizing that these compressed petroleum-chemistry rocks were from SEA-Bottoms that existed PRIO and BELOW the periodic siltlayers, that FIRST supported Life-on- Earth and so impossibly could have had an animal-origine.   
The Marine-proto-plankton was what we call geological-intrusive.
 
But he was laughed at as a charlatan.  and I bet You do that now too.

In the Magazine 'Scientific- American' of last month, Aug.-2007, , there is an article about the chemical origin of Petroleum geology, that said that the geologists have come to that  same conclusion in 2001 but never dared to publisize it for fear of beiing ridiculed.

Dr Velikovsky DID publish this theory in 1950, fifty years ago, and he has been laughed at during the fully fifty years since, and I find it still dishonorable to the scientific COMMUNITY, that his name was not mentioned in this article that has his " ridiculized- theory " written all over it.   Which makes me  CYNIC-AL

 :)I mean writing about VIMANAS the Flying Elephant Carts is not ridiculous but Velikovky's Theory is ? ? ? 

Sincerely    "  BlueHue   "      dd.Aug 28- 2007

PS,
READ my subscript and have a jolly good LAUGH again will you ? ?

[BlueHue]

Dear TOM'

"FLYING pink ELEPHANTS"   

is just a poetical litterary expression from the Hindu RIG- VEDA's
that started an own life in ANCIENT HISTORY !
" flying " HERE JUST MEANS:" holy" OR " exalted "
in German terms it would read:" Durchlaucht " in itally and France"
ALTISSIMMI or son Altesse meaning :" HIGH- seated Person..... Got that ?

I am apprehansive about geological dates:

Forinstance
 the TOP layers of the Himalay mnts indicated that they are originally the SEA-Floor/ bottom
of the predecessor of the indian Ocean namely the THETYS- Ocean.

However several toplayers have washed away since the Pleistocene/ Quarternary epoch

and today the toplayers of the Himalays have withered down to the eocene and
 MIOCENE AGES=STRATIFICATION PERIODS of 20 million years ago.

Can you ever immagine the sheer stupidity of KLay people and professionalists they thertefore assume
that the SEA-Bottom layers on top of the present Himalay mnts would have been formed one kilometer into thin air 20 million years ago ?!

But that's exactly  what AO- Forum-people think about Atlantis too that it formed in glacial times 150 meters under the present sea-level

These ordinary/ common-Elephants must have lived in AMERICA when the world-Sea- Level was lower and there were salt- inland seas in America
bexcause Elephants are originally AQUATIOUS animals now forced to live on dry arable lands killed by subsistence farmers in AfricaHistory repeats itself !

There seems to be mounting evidence that elephants did exist in America in prehistoric times.  Could this have something to do with Plato's Atlantis?

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/HardakerC1.php