Smiley4554
Administrator
Member # 332
posted 01-16-2009 12:50 PM
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Tom, I beg to disagree with you. The original problems began on the Atlantis Forums a very, very long time ago.
You are "in and out". Many of us are here all the time. That's a huge difference.
I had e-mail after e-mail from the real researchers here that they were leaving due to a couple of members who were very busily berating and being generally disrespectful. This was a majority of researchers on Atlantis.
The Gen and Misc wasn't a big deal, and frankly, I rarely bothered going to it BECAUSE there was so little traffic on it. I used to check now and again.
But, then, after the Atlantis business with Alan e-mailing me and other mods about the problems, he added a new forum - Common Ground - made me mod over it, and then would ask me my opinions if there was a problem with a member. I would give him my honest assessments, but in the end, only Alan had the authority to do anything about it.
All of those old posts on this subject are now long gone, but believe me...I have a VERY long memory of how I tried everything I could to keep our researchers here, but wasn't successful.
I really couldn't blame them, because the insults were flying in all directions.
Alan left, and the AR Forums didn't have anything but a couple of moderators, and we only have very limited abilities until our current ARM came. She is very busy with other tasks, and the forum is not her main priority. It's an "extra", really, and we are privileged to be apart of it.
But, no, Tom. You are wrong on this subject. I couldn't begin to tell you HOW wrong you are on it.
I even had people asking where all of these people were by e-mail at the time, and I simply told them the truth.
You see, Tom, most people don't realize just how many members did leave because of these problems.
The "heated" discussion you mention are not the problem in any way whatsoever. They never have been. If that were true, there would be no AR Forums in the first place.
There is a huge difference between "heated discussions" and "respectful disagreement discussions". They are not even remotely the same.
They were not "heated" in the first place. They were downright mean-spirited with cursing going on all over the place, insults galore, repeated name-calling, and where the original topic was introduced, the entire meaning got left behind in the "insult game" of who could be meaner and more insulting than the next or previous person.
If you could not see this, I'm sorry, but you see, Tom, many COULD see this problem, and they hated it with a passion. Myself included.
It was not WHAT was said about a specific subject; it was the HOW it was said.
There is a wide gulf between what is said with bantering back and forth concerning the topic and maybe anger about it, but being respectful while doing so, and the deliberate, out and out filth and meanness of someone who is trying their best to hurt, manipulate, and degrade.
It is BEHAVIOR that is at stake here, Tom, NOT the subjects nor their argumental discussion.
I grew up in a time when MANNERS and BEHAVIOR mattered. This is sorely lacking in today's society right along with respect.
There is a huge difference in saying anything and everything one thinks and means, and saying it with respect.
Well, AR has always operated the way of respectful arguments.
Epsi was using curse words, Manutius, which is STRICTLY AGAINST THESE FORUMS RULES. I know some can't seem to figure out what the word "rules" means.
Rules are everywhere we look - even government. Just because we have some sort of stupid idea that "Freedom of Speech" applies to ANYTHING we want to say does NOT mean that they need be said in a hurtful or mean manner. Nor does it mean that others want to HEAR this. Just because Epsi wanted to curse did NOT give her the right to do so on these forums.
This is about, BEHAVIOR. I cannot understand why in the world I have to repeat myself on this matter.
How hard can this be to understand???
I get sick to my stomach when I here little 3 and 4 year olds using words I didn't learn until I was an older teenager, not to mention things they should not be knowing in the first place.
Why is it some adults insist that kids grow up immediately, and insist on them losing their innocence younger and younger?
In the Byrd's song, "Turn, Turn, Turn", the lyrics are quite clear that there is a time for EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING IN ITS TIME.
A child does NOT need to know everything when they are still too young to understand. As they grow, then give them info that they will need to know, but you don't just go willy-nilly and try to teach them everything from the age of infancy!!!
A child who grows up on a farm or ranch already knows more than most kids, but it is NOT that kid's responsibility to tell other kids about things he/she has seen.
What is wrong with innocence? Why is it so wrong to just have fun while they are young?
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/forrestgump/turnturnturntoeverythingthereisaseason.htm Well, the same thing is true here. There is a time and place for everything if one so wishes, but this is NOT the place nor is it the time.
I'm so annoyed at how many members we lost over this dumb issue about a very few members (except for the deceptive practices of groups who come in to use us for their experiments).
We have lost MORE members due to the issue of behavior and insults than I care to talk about.
Epsi needed to find another outlet for her cursing. She REFUSED TO STOP after being asked numerous times. Therefore, she was banned, because of the rules.
You know...people "talk about getting tough" when these things happen, but when they do get tough, then they whine about it.
You just can't have it both ways.
quote:
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The problem, contrary to what Kim just said, has not been the people who have been removed, but the fact that they were removed.
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Wrong again, Tom. It IS ABOUT those people's BEHAVIOR. I don't care if a few don't care about behavior; the majority DO CARE, and that is the difference, and that is why they were "removed".
You said it RIGHT this time, Tom. Limbaugh and Stern are in it FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT. Who cares? They are PUBLIC AIRWAYS, but the stations are PRIVATELY OWNED, therefore, the stations make all the rules for their employees and those who call in as well. If that station allows cursing, etc., then it's OK for that to be on the air...oh, but WAIT! They STILL have to be careful, because of the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction", or have people forgotten that? The fines they face for refusing to comply are horrendous.
Forums are different. There are unlimited forums all over the internet - each with its own personality, and frankly, most of those I visited have a bunch of members, too, but only an extreme few ever post. This is no difference.
What happened was that like kind draws like kind. They entered here determined to break the rules drawing more of these types to us.
Heated discussion are nothing more than "I agree to disagree" discussions, and sometimes there might be some anger involved, but it is quickly resolved. But, what's been happening here sounded more and more like a couple of angry little 2 year olds fighting. Subjects were taking such an extreme off-topic discussion, they bore no resemblance to the discussion.
But, this time, Tom, you are wrong about this subject.
But, not all people were mad because these people were removed, but many were happy they were removed because they were disrupting "the class", so to speak.
Without these rules, there is chaos, and that is exactly what was being sown here. Chaos does nothing and goes nowhere and means nothing. And, that is exactly what was happening here.
[ 01-16-2009, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Smiley4554 ]
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It only takes one voice to lie. It takes many for the truth. - Kim
http://www.panoramio.com/user/120220 Please contact me by using the PM on the site. I will respond much faster. If full, e-mail @ :
armoderator@hotmail.com Thanks! Kim
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Posts: 7153 | From: Arkansas...USA | Registered: Jan 2001
