Pagan Beliefs vs. Christianity (A Second Darkness Covers the Lands)

[Heather Delaria]

Hi, the purpose of this topic is to show Christianity borrowed from Pagan worship to build it's own beliefs system, the beliefs of both religions, and how each religion has been the historic adversary of the other. Christianity has had a far longer history of abuse towards Pagan worship, so we'll begin with that.

[Heather Delaria]

Three centuries of persecution of the pagans


314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.

324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.
325 Nicene Council. The godman gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'

326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.

330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.

335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists.” Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.

346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.

353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.

354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.
Execution of pagan priests begins.
A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.
First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.
The first lime factories are organised next to the closed pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.

357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).

359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.

361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).

364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.
An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”).
Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.
The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia – western Asia Minor) orders that religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday. Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.

365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.

370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).
Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.

372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.

373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term “pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.

375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.

380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:

"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”.
In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.
Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."

381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine' (thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.
In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.

382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.

384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.

385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.
Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.

386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.

388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.

389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.

391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.

392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares:
“The ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island.”
The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.

393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.

395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).

396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.

397 “Demolish them!” Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing pagan temples be demolished.

398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them that remain active).

399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.

400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.

401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still active temples of the city.
The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).

405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.

406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Euty****s continue the persecutions of the pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.

407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.

408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.

409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.

415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.
On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.

416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.

423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.

429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.
431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the godman – "Christ is complete God and complete man."

435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.

438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!

440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.
    
448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).
451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox doctrine over the 'Monophysites' – 'JC has single, divine nature.'

457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.

482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.

486 More “underground” pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
    515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.

523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress Arianism everywhere.
528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).

529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.

532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade against the pagans of Minor Asia.

542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan temples.

546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.

556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.

562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.

578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).

580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.

583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.

590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.


Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! … Published in Greek, Athens 1994
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[Heather Delaria]

Wicca vs Satanism
The Big Lie
There are lots (and bad) information on the suposed relation between satanism and Wicca. In this page I'll try to make a brief account of some of the points that are commonly used to try to prove it, and also give reasons for why this is not true.
First, and basic to all the further development of my point, is this: all pagan religions have their roots in practices that predate christianity by centuries, and developed out of the area of influence of both christianity and judaism, which evolved primarily in the Middle East Area.
Second, satanism as a cult was developed as an antithesis of christianity, an antinomic judeo-christian heresy, where Satan is recognized as superior to Yahve/Jehova. It has several differnt versions, from the Satanists of the Church of Satan, followers of the teachings of LaVey and almost nihilists -and atheists-, to the "Devil Worshippers", or the people that form the Temple of Seth, or the Luciferians. There were attempts in the previous centuries to develop something similar, true, and there are documents that talk about "black masses" in France near the time of the Revolution, but this has little if anything in common with contemporary "satanism". But by definition, Satanism can't predate christianity, and even then, the developing of all the mythology about Satan. See, to be a satanist you need to start by acknowledging the judeo-christian God.
Satanism is, as their followers explain, a religion that glorifies ego, without any further moral barriers other than their own will. Let's note that for christianity, Satan's main sin was pride (to consider himself equal to his creator). They use the inverted pentagram (five pointed star) as the representation of Satan's head with it's horns, ears and beard, or also the inverted christian cross. The Pentagran is a symbol widely used in ocultism. On it's upside, it symbolizes the spirit imposing over matter... this can be well seen if we inscribe a human figure inside. Upside down, this supremacy of the spirit is lost and the senses rule, being this another symbolism satanists use. Among Wiccan, we use the Pentacle, being it a five pointed star inscribed inside a circle. It symbolized the five elements of nature: fire, air, water and earth, with the fifth element -that is, spirit- located on the upper point.
I'll check now some points that lead to confusion. I must make myself clear in that all these points were taken from other pages, plainly fundamentalists, that I won't bother to link to, for two main reasons. One is to prevent giving any space on my page to any such show of hostility and intolerance, the other is to avoid giving them any kind of publicity, not even negative one.
Lie Nro. 1: The Wiccan Rede is Satanic
The main excuse those who state this give, is a suposed version of the Rede that states "Do what thou wilt" and equal this to the lack of acknowledgement of a sacred, higher law. They also relate it with Aleister Crowley, who was called "the more perverse man of his time". This is not only not true, but also maliciously distorted. The cited bit belongs to Crowley, yes, but is taken out of context, and has little to do with what some fundamentalist groups want it to say. You can find a version of the Rede in this pages, and anyone who cares enough to read it can say it's far from the afirmation of the ego which is "Do what thou wilt" without any adition. A shorter version of the Rede is "Ain it harm no one, do what thou wilt" and some add "Except in thine own defence it be". This sets a moral stop quite important, which doesn't exist in the suposed version given by the fundamentalists. This is plainly, to descontextualize a sentence and chop it, devoiding it of it's original meaning.
Lie Nro. 2: The witches (wicca) perform human sacrifices
The truth is there are accounts, taken mainly from Julius Cesar's "Gaelic Wars" describing human sacrifices done by the Druids. Inmediately stating that those sacrifices were only done when in times of great need or calamities, being the victims voluntaries and/or criminals. And even this is doubted by some schollars, considering it an ancient version of war propaganda trying to show the enemy as evil. This is a discontinued practice, not valid today at all. Anyone performing a human sacrifice nowadays is not wicca, nor satanist: is a criminal, and whom you can only relate to Wicca in the same way you can relate Charles Manson or Dave Koresh to the main body of christianity. Let's tell the truth then: wiccan neither kidnap people to sacrifice, nor eat raw children as many seem to think.  .
Lie Nr. 3: Halloween is the biggest feast among satan worshiper witches and druids, and use it to sacrifice innocent children
Samhain in the northern hemisphere is the origin of today's Halloween, and is also the Wiccan New Year. It's a feast to pay respects to the dead, and honour their memories by celebrations, very similar to the mexican "Dia de los Muertos", celebrated on a close date. For a start, it's been centuries since the druids made their last ritual human sacrifice, if they ever did. Second, druids are obviously not satan worshipers. It's possible that Satanists hold feasts on this day, but their main feast day to a Satanist is the day of his birthday.
Lie Nr. 4: Wicca is a religion that was only created a century or so ago, then it's just another one of Satan's lies to take more souls.
Gardnerian tradition among Wiccan was established during the '60s, following the abolition of the laws against witchcraft, allowing wiccan praticioners to show openly without fearing jail or death. Many of the other traditions were handled among the families for centuries and in the dark, fearing torture or oprobium would come on them if they admited themselves as witches. Other branches of paganism, like shammanism or the Asatru religion have survived without much problem with the law, and predate christianity for centuries. And in any case, the practices in which we based our celebration are ancient indeed, as any anthropologist could testify.
Note: there is a book promoted on some sites promising to tell "All of Satan's deceivings in Wicca". This book, according to the information given on it, was writen by someone who claims to have been ordered High Priest of a coven around six months after being admited into it. As I explain in "Studying", to be initiated you're usually asked for a year and a day in service taken from the moment you bid so, to give the future wicca time enough to meditate and be really sure of his wishes, and also to build the trust on the newly come. And even then, you need years of learning before someone anoints you as High Priest/ess. It's plain to see the origins of this book are more than dubious, and nothing someone really informed can take seriously, yet in the wrong hands it could well be an erroneuos source of information.
Pagans tend to take all this acusations as yet another source for a good chuckle, as most of them show a knowledge of Wicca and Satanism very close to a B Movie, and not even the cult ones. We tend to laugh at them, true, as long as it doesn't spread and starts affecting us on our daily life and turn into a source of discrimination.
Whoever says any of the things stated above, is either ignorant or malicious. Still, it's nothing that surprising... after all, this ignorant attitude was the one that condemmed thousands of innocents to the stake. Something many seem to miss and try to revive with all their "alerts" and discriminative or plainly difamatory attitudes.
This is the reason why I decided to remark the grossest mistakes, looking forwards to giving battle to the ignorance manifested in the acusations made, and with the secret wish that bringing the truth into light helps for a better convivence between both religions.
Index

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Beliefs
•   Basics
•   The Wheel of the Year
•   The Triple Goddess
•   Wicca and Christianity
•   Wicca vs. Satanism
•   The Rede
   
 

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 http://www.puertasdebabel.com/wicca/beliefs/satanism.htm

[Heather Delaria]

Wicca & Christianity
The relationship between Wicca and Christianity has always been difficult. The roots of this animosity between both religions are quite clear. During the european christianization, a common process took place, in which the Gods of the older religions turned into the demons of the new one, and the christian priests identified the Satan of the Scripts with the Horned God of paganism, also called Cernunnos, similar in appearance to the greek god Pan, his atributes being goat hooves, hairy body and deer or goat horns.
As christianity evolved as the major religion for the european upper classes, and with the feudal system during the Middle Ages a religion such as the pagan ones, with their constant celebration of life and it's remark on the individual's responsibility upon his/her own destiny, turned up to be something less than desirable. The reason is quite simple: if each person was responsible of their own life and actions, all the perverse feudal system with it's dominion over land, life and body of the peasants had no reason to be, even less a sacred back up as it had with the Church. As a counterpart to this, documentation on the celitc pagan countries remain, stating the right of every inhabitant of the country to posses their own land, naming then a series of rights that sound amazingly similar to the modern Declaration of Human Rights. As we can see, a completely different approach on the subject.
Anyway, on December 1484 the Pope Inocencius VII edicted his infamous bule, naming two priests called Heinrich Kramer and Jakob Sprenger Inquisitors. These pair wrote the Malleum Maleficarum, a detail on the procedures allowed to use to make witches confess. These procedures included, among other delicacies, hanging the victims by their wrists, shaving their body hair looking for spots or "devil nipples" (simple moles or warts, usually placed on armpits or crotch), trying to prove their adherence to Satan. These moles were suposed to be the places through which women nursed the demons, thus their name. One would think the lack of such marks would prove the innocence of the acused. Nothing like the sort. The skin's inmaculate condition was considered another proof of evil doings. The truth is, the condemnation of the accused was more based on who and how the acusation had been placed for a start, more than in the "proofs". Let's keep in mind that after several different flavours of tortures, such as red-hot irons and boots that broke all the bones in the legs, anybody would confess anything just to make it stop.
But my point isn't making a retelling of one of the worst and longest butcheries humanity can recall. There is plenty of information available, perfectly documented, for those interested in finding out more.
Nowadays, the relationship between Paganism and Christianity hasn't got much better, even though it's almost a century since the last person was killed or jailed accused of witchcraft. It's becoming a habbit among fundamentalist groups to try to raise the multitude against paganism. If they kept it among their own members, or perhaps when trying to witness ocasionally to an isolated pagan, it wouldn't be that bad. The real problem starts, though, when declaring them at war with what they call the "devil worshipers", based on descontextualized facts and information that completely lacks historical accuracy. And then what is meant to be a pacific convivence turns into a battlefield.
I should make clear that I don't aim to suggest the general policy of christianity as a whole is to declare a new witch-hunt in the same style as the well known collective histery of Salem. But to state that is simply the message originated in some sectors, without the least respect for a religion which roots place it as almost if not older than judaism, another religion that predated christianity by far, and what makes it worse is the lack of REAL information. As an example of what could be a pacific convivence, we could name the new Catholic Apostolic Roman cathecism, that even though it considers a mortal sin to use traditional witches' practices such as divination or magick, it makes is so for it's own followers. That means, if you are a catholic, you should accept the church's views.
The influence of the so called pagan uses upon christianity are undeniable for anyone that cares enough to check them out without condemning them beforehand. As a clear example of this we can name the celebreation of Christmas on December 24th, a date astoundingly close to Yule, the celtic festival of the rebirth of the God. Another possible example is communion, this one taken from Ancient Egypt, where they also made the transubstanciation of the bread, just like what is today considered dogma by the Catholic Church. And if we carry on our research with historical and anthropological accuracy, we'll find the myth of the Sacrificed God, then Resurrected, has a high occurence all over the Middle East. There are way many serious studies made on the relation between the christian and pagan festivals. A more than coherent reason for this was the intent to ease the convertion into the new religion by using festivals similar to those the converts were already used to.
As anyone that knows the basic beliefs of Wicca would know, convivence between both religions is perfectly possible, though obviously you can't be both pagan and christian. Let's hope people understands this, and a near future finds us living in harmony.
 http://www.puertasdebabel.com/wicca/beliefs/christ.htm

[Heather Delaria]

Pagan Gods Copied From Christianity???
By Brad

As information becomes more available to wider audiences through the internet, the subject of "pagan" Gods often enters into debates about Christianity. The issue of whether or not Jesus was patterned after the stories and attributes of some pagan gods is one that produces some amazing claims by Christians.

They will always deny that there were any pagan Gods who existed prior to Jesus that could have influenced how Jesus was developed in Christian writings such as the New Testament.

The following essay contains identified comments from a rabid Christian writing in an Skeptic vs. Christian forum and are typical of the Christian apologetics used to debunk the idea that there may have been pagan Gods which served as templates for the Jesus story.

A skeptic introduced into the debate Christmas and the name "Mithra" who was an ancient savior god of the Persians who has striking similarities to Jesus before Jesus was supposed to have been born.

[Christian writes: Mithra? I have to assume that you're joking. In order to have a serious discussion about Christianity and atheism, then you have to turn aside your intense desire to disparage Christianity at every turn and instead let's talk intelligently and objectively.]

Notice how the Christian starts out. He immediately dismisses the idea that Mithra may have been a role model for the Jesus story by assuming that any talk about Mithra is a joke. Then the Christian accuses the skeptic of not being objective and only interested in Christianity bashing. This is a rather obvious ploy which attempts to discredit the idea that Jesus may have been copied from prior savior gods by attempting to laugh off the idea from the start.

In other words, in order to "intelligently" and "objectively" discuss Christianity, silly notions that there could have been savior gods who existed prior to Jesus and who had very similar attributes to Jesus must be put aside as nonsense. When dealing with a zealous Christian, one must always remember that there is nothing in the universe which has any "real" validity other than Jesus and the Bible.

[Christian writes: Firstly, even the experts will acknowledge that there is virtually no literary evidence as to the beliefs of Mirthraism (please refer to "The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries" by David Ulansey).]

The experts? Experts are a dime a dozen. The experts at the Christian Institute for Creation Research declare that the earth is only about 6,000 years old. For every Christian "expert" on pagan religions, I can cite one who isn't a Christian and establishes that Mithra was a savior God who was worshipped prior to Jesus and whose origins date long before Jesus was supposed to have been born.

The real problem is that if some parts of the Jesus story were patterned after "pagan" Gods, then the validity of the New Testament as the word of God is in jeopardy and Christians can't allow that.

[Christian writes: The simple reason that Mithraism could not possibly have influenced first-century Christianity (in fact, the opposite was likely true) is that the timing is all wrong. Mithraism didn't really begin to flourish until AFTER the closing of New Testament canon (see "The Mysteries of Mithra" by Franz Cumont) and in fact, no monuments to this religion can be dated any earlier than AD 90 - 100.]

Here we see the mind of a Christian zealot in all it's radiant splendor. Instead of Jesus being copied from Mithra, he asserts Mithra was copied from Jesus. The Christian turns the tables by saying that pagan copycats used the Jesus story to invent Mithra.

It's simply not possible in this persons mind that the Jesus story could have been influenced by stories of other god/men who existed in history prior to Jesus.

Since Mithra was a Persian God who was introduced to the Romans before Jesus was ever written about, Mithra was around in some form before Jesus. Notice how the Christian dances around this by saying that Mithraism "didn't really begin to flourish" until the NT canon was closed. The issue is not when Mithraism was at it's most popular in the region, but how old it's foundations are and where they originated from.

This Christian can sing and dance and quote any number of books he wants.
Here's what the Encarta online research source says about Mithra:

"Mithraism, one of the major religions of the Roman Empire, the cult of Mithra, the ancient Persian god of light and wisdom. In the Avesta, the sacred Zoroastrian writings (see Zoroastrianism) of the ancient Persians, Mithra appears as the chief yazata (Avestan, 'beneficent one'), or good spirit, and ruler of the world. He was supposed to have slain the divine bull, from whose dying body sprang all plants and animals beneficial to humanity. After the conquest of Assyria in the 7th century BC and of Babylonia in the 6th century BC, Mithra became the god of the sun, which was worshipped in his name (see Sun Worship). The Greeks of Asia Minor, by identifying Mithra with Helios, the Greek god of the sun, helped to spread the cult. It was brought to Rome about 68 BC by Cilician pirates whom the Roman general Pompey the Great had captured, and during the early empire it spread rapidly throughout Italy and the Roman provinces. It was a rival to Christianity in the Roman world."

"Mithraism was similar to Christianity in many respects, for example, in the ideals of humility and brotherly love, baptism, the rite of communion, the use of holy water, the adoration of the shepherds at Mithra's birth, the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra's birthday) as holy days, and the belief in the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, and the resurrection. Mithraism differed from Christianity in the exclusion of women from its ceremonies and in its willingness to compromise with polytheism. The similarities, however, made possible the easy conversion of its followers to Christian
doctrine." (End quote)

Also, from a web site which examines Mithraism:

"Plainly, the worship of Mithras was well ahead of the worship of Jesus. In any case there is a dated pre-Christian Mithraic inscription of Antiochus I of Commagene (69-34 BC) in eastern Asia Minor. Mithras shakes hands with the King, he wears the Phrygian cap, the Persian trousers, and a cape. His hat is star speckled and rays of light emerge from his head like a halo. His torq is a serpent. This is the image of the Roman Mithras in a scene taking place 100 years before the crucifixion."

"There were worshippers of Mithras in Rome in Pompey's time (67 BC)."
"Christians are more defensive about Mithras than perhaps any other pre-Christian Roman god. The two religions had so much in common, it can hardly be denied although Christians will try to deny it as a first shot. Their second shot is that the followers of Mithras copied the Christians! Christians feel obliged to take silly positions on these issues because they seek to defend Christianity as a revealed religion, not one which evolved in a certain milieu and therefore has common features with contemporary religions. So, no religious practices that seem in any way to be like any Christian ones could have been original--they must have been taken from Christianity!"
(end quotes, ref Dr M. D. Magee AskWhy! Publications Website, www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0690Mithras.html)

It seems rather clear that Mithra was introduced to Rome around 68 B.C. and existed in some form as a worshipped deity long before Jesus or the New Testament.

Even in the Old Testament, the Israelites were carried off into exile to Assyria and Babylon which were captured by the Persians. This was all hundreds of years prior to Jesus. The Babylonian exile is recorded in the Old Testament.

All the dancing and excuses by this Christian that Mithra was a savior God copied from Jesus is just a desperate attempt to discredit any gods which existed prior to Jesus. If certain aspects of Jesus were indeed copied from pagan gods like Mithra, the whole Jesus story and New Testament are called into question.
Some dishonest Christians will always attempt to turn history on it's ear and claim that pagan Gods were copied from Jesus.

Note: At this point another Christian jumps in and writes the same thing with an additional twist:

[Christian #2 writes: If there was any borrowing it was the pagans from the Christians. Christianity is based on a historical person. A big difference from mythology.]

Historical people are not the product of virgin births as Christians claim Jesus was. Pagan god/men in mythology are however often the products of a God mating with a human female. Christians always ignore this fact.
According to this historical twist employed by Christians, it means the Persians must have borrowed the Jesus story to create their version of Mithra, the savior god who was introduced and worshipped in Rome at least 68 years before Jesus ever appeared. This is the type of spin Christians have to use to keep Jesus unique and the only true savior of the universe.

The New Testament itself points out that Christianity introduced a new ritual as part of it's formula to obtain eternal life.
Jesus himself tells his followers that they can have eternal life if they eat his flesh and drink his blood.

John 6:53-54
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Where did this ritual come from? Is it something that God told his people to do, or is it something pagan which became incorporated into the Jesus savior story? What's wrong with this picture?
This new ritual directly contradicts the Word of God in the Old Testament. The consumption of blood, in any form, is abomination in the eyes of God.

Lev 17:10,12
And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth(consumes) any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat(consume) blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Are people to believe that God, whose eternal law(Psa 119:152,160) is very clear about not consuming any type of blood, completely changed his mind, and then decided to advocate the drinking of blood as part of a salvation ritual?

An often employed Christian rationalization is that since the blood Jesus told his followers to drink was only wine, there was no real violation of the law. This doesn't hold up to scriptural examination. Symbolic sin is still sin. Even Jesus proclaimed that symbolic sin was still sin(Matt 5:28).

Drinking wine and pretending that it's really the blood of a human sacrifice makes a mockery of God's law.

This new blood drinking ritual for salvation certainly didn't come from the God of the Old Testament.

[Christian writes: Now that we have settled this... ]

Notice the arrogance of fundamentalist Christianity on display here. This has been settled? This short burst of hubris has completely discredited Mithraism as a possible source for some of the characteristics of Jesus as described in the New Testament???

Did the basic foundation of Mithraism exist before or after Jesus was supposed to have appeared? How tightly do you want to close your eyes?

This illustrates why Christians cannot allow anything to taint their spin of how history actually was. If Jesus the savior god was in any way patterned after savior gods who existed prior to him, the whole doctrine of salvation through Jesus is called into dispute. The claims of a virgin birth, blood sacrifice of a human being to redeem people, the resurrection, being the bringer of light and life, and other attributes of Jesus are not unique but may be part of belief systems that existed long before Jesus appeared.

[Christian writes again: Let me chastise you on one thing: the celebration of Christmas in December has NOTHING to do with Scripture. So, telling us that it should really be celebrated in mid-year tells us nothing. It is accepted that the early Church established December 25th as the day in order to celebrate Christ's birth in order to coordinate Christianity with the local customs. Hardly blasphemous and certainly not in any way a discredit to Scripture.]

The fact that this Christian acknowledges that the celebration of Christmas has nothing to do with scripture, but was simply an adopted pagan custom used by the early church to establish Dec 25th as the birthday of Jesus, points to evidence which this Christian doesn't want to have highlighted. That evidence is that Mithra's birthday was supposed to be Dec 25th (also the winter solstice).

The Christian attempts to brush off this adopted custom as "hardly blasphemous." What a hypocrite!!!
This Christian needs to read his Bible more carefully.

Lev 20:23,26
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

The Bible God gives clear instructions not to adopt customs of other nations. Adopting the birthday/holiday of a pagan God like Mithra as the birthday of Jesus in order to, as this Christian asserts, "coordinate Christianity with the local customs" most certainly does qualify as blasphemy!!!

Bringing customs of pagan gods into God's congregation is a violation of huge proportions.

Deut 6:13-15
Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

How are Christians serving God by following and adopting the custom of recognizing a pagan god's birthday as the birthday of Jesus??? Who does this Christian think he's kidding when he says that the adoption of this holiday is hardly blasphemous??? These actions laugh in the face of the instructions God gave in the Old Testament.

To make matters worse, Christians pretend to observe the Sabbath on Sunday. It's probably no coincidence that Mithra who was a SUN God and whose day was SUN DAY, had his day adopted by Christians as their "Sabbath" or Lord's day.
Did Christians once again "coordinate Christianity with the local customs" by adopting Sunday as their day of the Lord?
The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week which is Saturday.

Exo 31:15-16
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Since Christians also deem themselves to be God's chosen people and claim that they want to worship and praise the Lord, they violate the Sabbath by not observing it on the 7th day of the week as instructed.
These pious hypocrites then advertise to the world that the Bible God's laws are the moral foundation of the universe and that his laws should be followed by all "moral" societies.

The very fact that the early Christian church made these "changes" and disregarded God's instructions doesn't help the case that Christianity represents a unique religion based on the "truth" of the Bible God. Since Dec 25th as the birthday of Christ is not scriptural, there is no valid reason why Christians should celebrate it. Yet, almost all Christians do.

Regarding Christmas:
The scriptures aren't discredited by the celebration of Christmas, but Christians who celebrate it ARE. They are celebrating the birthday of their LORD and SAVIOR on a pagan holiday. Jesus never instructed that his birthday be celebrated, nor is there any birth date given in the New Testament.

Apparently Christians want an excuse to celebrate without authority to do so. They set up trees, decorate them with silver tinsel, gold balls and religious ornaments, gather around it, put up lights, put on pageants, and engage in exactly the things God told them NOT to do.

Jer 10:2-5
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

God instructs his people NOT to learn or practice the ways of the nations around them. It's astounding how Christians will ignore what the Bible tells them when it conflicts with what they want to do.

Situational ethics is the order of the day. These same religious chameleons then proclaim and advertise to the world that they want to "serve God."
All of the excuses Christians employ to prop up their belief system as the only valid and true way to know God are concoctions straight out of the seemingly limitless capacity of the human mind to rationalize anything and then claim God backs them up. Let any buyer of Christian advertising beware.

 http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/pagangods.htm

[Heather Delaria]

How to Share the Gospel with Pagans
 
Author: Gwydion Oak
Posted: February 2nd. 1997
Times Viewed: 52,991

For starters, I am not a Christian. I am and have been Pagan (Wiccan in particular) for several years now. So why am I writing this? Because I understand that believing Christians feel they have an obligation to share their religion with others (I was Christian once and participated actively in missionary work at that time). I have also observed over a number of years that believing Christians tend, however unintentionally, to ignore their own strengths, and to consistently put their worst face forward when dealing with those who do not share their faith. This is especially obvious when they are dealing with Wiccans, Druids, or other "pagan" religions. I have thus written this outline in the hope that it will help Christians understand better who and what Pagans really are, and, in the process become more effective in sharing their beliefs.
Don't Attack

First and foremost, never, and I repeat, never attack. I make a point of reading every Christian tract on Paganism I encounter on the Internet or elsewhere, and the overwhelming majority of them are based on attacking Pagan religions, and those who practice them as "evil, " "devil-worshippers" and "calling them to repentance before they are doomed to hell forever." I have written to the authors of these tracts, asking exactly what they meant to accomplish by writing what they did. The two purposes that are always mentioned are...
1. to protect Christians from being "lured away" from the true faith.
2. to persuade Pagans to return to Christ.
Unfortunately, attacks such as these usually fail totally on both counts.

To begin with, I have never yet seen anyone converted back to Christianity by threats and attacks on them . I say "back" for a good reason. Unlike the majority of Christians in this country who are raised in their faith and accept it almost as a matter of course, most Pagans have made a conscious decision to become what they are - usually after a long period of study, reflection, and practice. They thus have a strong personal and spiritual commitment to their religion. Remember also that the great majority of Pagans in the U.S. come from Judeo-Christian family and cultural backgrounds, and a scripture-filled attack usually does little more than confirm that they made the right decision in the first place.

Another important point to remember is that, to most Pagans, the need to attack others is viewed as a sign of fear and lack of self-confidence on the part of the attacker. There is an common expression in the Pagan community which runs -"Fear conquers understanding. Understanding conquers fear." It is generally felt that if a person has a strong grounding and foundation in their own religion, they will not feel any need to fear - or attack - others. While a fiery assault on Paganism makes many Christians feel better about their faith, and themselves as a "defender of the truth", the Pagan sees it as a kind of spiritual immaturity on the part of the attacker, and as a result will take neither the person, nor the message, very seriously.

Finally, attacks frequently have an odd way of backfiring. No matter what the pamphlets may say to the contrary, the overwhelming majority of Pagans are fundamentally good and decent people, who live their religion to the best of their ability, and raise their children to become mature, responsible members of their communities. They usually have numerous friends and relatives who recognize them as such, and who often don't appreciate strangers' attacks any more than the Pagans themselves do.

Last year during the holiday season, a young woman in her early twenties and her young son came into the Hope Mission, a local charity organization which provides food and shelter to the homeless. She definitely looked a little different, she had a nose ring on and was wearing a pentagram necklace. A man working at the mission suddenly confronted her and demanded to know why she was there. Before she could answer he saw the pentagram and shouted, "You're one of those witches that was in the park back on Halloween!" He knew because he had participated in a church-organized demonstration against the "open circle" the local Pagan group had held there. He then became very hostile, calling her an evil devil-worshipper in front of everyone present and shouting that "her kind" had no business coming into a Christian center and that she would receive nothing from them. To her credit, she stood her ground, and a moment later several of the other volunteers came to her defense. It turned out that the woman and her son had come to the mission to donate food for the holidays, and after doing so left without a word to the man who had berated her so publicly. The workers who had stood by the woman, however, had plenty to say - mostly about her generosity in donating the food despite his rudeness and how he had had no right to talk to her like that, even if she did belong to a group that the church did not approve of. They seemed to feel his conduct to be "un-Christian" at the very least, and hardly the kind of example that would make the young woman he'd insulted want to come back to church. In the end, he had little choice but to turn away looking like the perfect fool he had been.
Get your facts straight

If you are going to have any chance at all in sharing your message, it is critical that you understand clearly what Pagans actually believe. You don't have to agree with these beliefs, but it is important that you see Pagans as they see themselves. The tracts I have read are usually filled with a fascinating assortment of pseudo-information regarding Pagan beliefs, usually accompanied by numerous Biblical scriptures, often used completely out of context. They are a poor way to learn about Pagan beliefs, as they are almost always written by hostile outsiders who have little or no personal experience with Pagans.

To start with, Pagans do not worship the devil. The simple fact is that to the great majority of Pagans, the Christian devil has no more meaning than the Christian god does. This may be even more disturbing to many Christians, but to understand Paganism this first point must be clear. I don't doubt for one minute that there are some people in this world who actually participate in "devil-worship" as Christians see it, and that those people may do some very sick, disgusting things, but you might be surprised to find that Pagans are as offended by such people as Christians are.

Pagans do not renounce Christ. There seems to be a common belief the writers of these tracts that when Pagans are initiated into their religion they renounce Christianity. This usually accompanies claims that Pagans are devil-worshippers. Again, while there may be people that worship the Christian devil and such people may renounce Christ, Pagans do not. Neither Christ nor the devil ever appear in Pagan initiations, or in any other Pagan rituals for that matter.

Pagans do not hold "grotesque Satanic rituals" on Halloween. Actually Pagans seldom, if ever, refer to this day as Halloween. To us, it is called Samhain (pronounced sow-en), a word which means "summer's end" To the ancient Celtic people it was New Years day, and many Pagans celebrate the new year at this time. Others celebrate the new year at Yule. To most Pagans Samhain is a sacred day - a time when the last harvests are gathered in before winter's arrival, and the time when family members who have passed away are remembered and honored. It is also considered a time of reflection, a time to look back on the year's accomplishments and make plans for the future. Finally, it is the time when Pagans reflect on their own mortality, and the time when the focus of life turns from physical concerns to spiritual ones. Samhain is only one of eight times of the year that Pagans celebrate - all of them focusing on a particular season or phase of life.

Pagans do not sacrifice children, animals, or anything else on their altars. Tract writers seem fascinated with the idea of animal and human sacrifice and this is always included in lurid descriptions of alleged Pagan rituals. Do modern Pagans sacrifice animals or people? No. Did they do so in the ancient past? Possibly. Sacrifices were part of nearly all ancient religions, the Biblical Hebrews being no exception. There are detailed descriptions in the Old Testament as to exactly what to sacrifice, and how it was to be done in order to be accepted. The idea of sacrificing was and still is that you must give up something valuable to you in order to gain something even more valuable or important. As many people in ancient times took this in a literal, rather than in a spiritual sense, and since they were primarily farmers and shepherds, the logical sacrifices were some of their crops or their animals. In many cultures human life was considered the ultimate value, and a human sacrifice was seen as the ultimate offering to god. According to the Bible Abraham was told by no less than Jehovah himself to take his only son and sacrifice him as a sign of his faith. While this turned out to be only a "test, " and Abraham ultimately did not have to do it - it was clear that the idea of human sacrifice and its meaning was not unknown to him - he did as he felt he had been commanded to do. As the concept of personal sacrifice moved from the physical to the spiritual realm, actual physical sacrifices ceased, and is now no more approved of in Paganism than it is in Christianity. Are there individuals and groups who still do it? No doubt. Is it a part of Paganism as a whole? No.

Pagans have no interest in luring your children out of the church. There are two very simple reasons for this. First, Pagans do not proselytize. They have no missionary program. In fact, it is not very easy to become a Pagan. Pagans generally don't teach their religion unless asked to do so by someone who has specifically sought them out. They also tend to carefully screen those who come to them, and many are rejected if they turn out to be seeking instruction for the wrong reasons - rebelling against parents and their parents' faith, desire for power, to be "cool" or "different." Religion is viewed by most Pagans to be a very personal and sacred matter, something never to be imposed on another against their wishes.

The second reason is that Pagans do not generally believe that Paganism is the "only true way." This doesn't mean that they believe that "anything is okay if you are a good person." What it does mean is that Pagans are less concerned with which particular religion a person follows, and more concerned with what kind of person their religion helps them to become. They tend to see religion as a road leading to the summit of a mountain (the summit being the ultimate goal of religion). People tend to start at different points of the mountain's base and work their way up, and there are many roads that lead to the summit. Christianity and Paganism are only two of them. There are many others. The closer to the summit one gets, the closer the roads become to each other, until they all meet at the top. Now, if you are preparing to share the gospel with Pagans, you clearly don't agree with this view, but you need to understand it, as promoters of a "one true way" are often seen through Pagan eyes as "taking the road to be the destination."

A final note. Don't attempt to tell Pagans what they "really" believe in, especially if your information is based on the tracts I've encountered. Imagine being told by a Buddhist that the Last Supper is clear evidence that Christians practice a form of ritual cannibalism each Sunday. When you attempt to explain to them the actual meaning of the Last Supper, they interrupt you to say, "It says right in the Bible that Jesus himself said 'Eat, this is my body' and 'Drink, this is my blood.' Eating a man's body or drinking their blood to take on their attributes is a common idea among savage peoples that practice cannibalism!" They then tell you that you may think that the Last Supper has a deep spiritual meaning, but that it's actually a barbaric rite and quote teachings from the Buddha that "prove" it.. When you press them to tell you exactly how they could possibly "know" such a thing - obviously you, as a practicing, believing Christian, should know far more about the subject than they possibly could - they reply that they read it in a pamphlet called "How to respond to the Christian missionaries" by a well-known Buddhist proselytizing organization (yes, this is a real example from a real tract).
Accept the Fact that there is a Dark Side to Christian history
- and then Focus on the Positive.

When you begin to talk about Christ to Pagans, you are likely to be presented with a number of negative comments about the Christian church (yes, many Pagans are touchy about the attacks leveled on them in the media and, being human, may very well do some attacking of their own - it's not right, but you may well come out understanding why attacks on others just don't work). Some of these comments will include the destruction of many cultures by missionaries - and the armies that always accompanied them, intolerance of other faiths, denigration of women by the church. These negative comments tend to bring out what I call the "defender of the faith" syndrome. They immediately rise to the church's defense, saying that these statements are simply not true, and denying that "real Christians" could ever do such a thing. Every negative allegation is either denied or explained away (there are evil people who used the Lord's name for their purpose, but that doesn't make Christianity evil).

The point here is that when people look at another faith, they are quick to see the negative side and slow to see the positive. The Inquisition (usually called "the burning times" by Pagans) did exist, and many innocent people -Christians as well as Pagans- were burned, tortured, and maimed in the name of "destroying the body to save the soul." Women were denigrated through much of Christian history (there was in fact a major church conference, attended by Thomas Aquinas among others which debated seriously whether women even had souls) and in some sects still are today. The massacre of cultures (and peoples) by missionaries and their armies did happen many times in history (although hardly by Christians alone), and the hate-tracts on Paganism I almost daily encounter on the Internet are clear enough example of the degree to which intolerance exists. I would love to be able to say that Paganism doesn't have it's dark side, but the Celts were not all "loving souls who hug trees, drink herb tea and wouldn't hurt a fly, " by any means. There were, and are today, many people who call themselves Pagan and then do some very unsavory and unpleasant things. The Roman emperors who declared themselves gods existed, as well as many other cruel and barbaric customs among different Pagan peoples. There are many unpleasant, negative facts about almost any religious group that does or has ever existed on the earth. But to focus on them is to miss the point.

Rather than becoming a "defender of the faith, " focus instead on the transforming power that the Christ can have on individual lives, and the positive factors of the faith. Does it surprise you that a Pagan writer can respect and even revere Jesus? It shouldn't. You will find out rapidly in working with Pagans that very few of them have any hostility to Christ whatsoever. The hostility you will encounter will be towards those who claim to be his representatives, and their unwillingness to let others claim the same right to worship in peace that they demand for themselves. Clearly you will not find this easy to accept, but, again it is crucial to understand Pagans as they understand themselves if you are to have any success sharing your message. There is a powerful and very positive side to Christ's teaching. Pagans are fully aware of both sides. It will be your task to emphasize the positive.
Treat Pagans as People First


In James Michener's book Hawaii, there is a incident where two missionaries, who had been working with the Hawaiians for many years clashed over the impending marriage of one of them to a Hawaiian woman. Despite the fact that the woman was a baptized, believing Christian, the marriage was fiercely condemned. Reverend Hale quoted Biblical scripture on how the marriage constituted "being yoked with unbelievers" and condemned his former friend for "consorting with the heathen." The response to this attack was a strong rebuke to what I have found to be the greatest mistake would-be teachers of the Gospel can make. He stated that "our work here is based upon a profound contradiction. You love the Hawaiians as souls to be saved, but you despise them as people."

Think carefully about this statement. On many occasions Christians have approached me in, what was at first, a friendly manner. Sometimes I was invited to their homes for dinner, sometimes to church social activities or services. There was a conspicuous effort to "get close" to me, and the topic of religion came up very often. This continued until it became clear that I wasn't going to jump into the baptismal pool right away, and that I was firmly committed to my religion. Then the "friendship" cooled off rapidly, phone calls ceased, and many times I was later treated with open hostility by the very people who had taken it upon themselves to approach me.

This is perhaps the most disturbing tendency Pagans encounter in Christians who would share the Gospel with them, and also one of the chief reasons Christians are often bluntly considered to be hypocrites in Pagan eyes. Pagans generally do not approach people solely for the purpose of sharing their religion, and if they become friends with someone it is real friendship, with the person. This is not to say that Christians don't do the same - I have also met many Christians who value friendship, and who accept me, even if they don't like my religions views. But a crucial question that any would-be missionary must ask themselves before they begin is whether they can be a genuine friend to those they would teach - a stay a friend even if those people don't accept their message. After all, one can never be sure where you're going to run into each other. Some of my Christian acquaintances are astonished that, as a Pagan, I support the right of students to meet together for prayer in a public school classroom if they wish to. I then ask them, "why not?" That right applies to all, and I would like to think that if a group of Pagan children wished to have a drumming circle in a classroom after school (much safer than many places I could think of) they would have the right to do so. If Muslim students wanted to meet and discuss their religion in a classroom after school, they should also have this right. And for those who don't have any religious belief - they have the same right NOT to participate.

Accept that You Can't Win Them All


Realize before you begin that you will not convert everyone you meet, and know when to stop. Many missionaries I have met seem to regard it as a personal failure if someone they are teaching decides not to join their church - or as a deliberate rejection of them. In most cases, neither is true. If a Pagan finally tells you that they have found their path, and wishes you well on yours, that simply means that you need to let go, and as one Mennonite pastor I heard put it, 'remember that I cannot see all things, and leave it to the Lord to judge." You don't have to accept their beliefs, or agree with them, but since you never know what the future may hold, suspend judgment. That is the spirit of religious tolerance (which never did mean you have to accept another religion - merely that everyone has a basic right to believe according to their conscience.

In closing, remember the Golden Rule - which in one form or another runs in all religions. Treat Pagans you would teach with the same respect, as people, that you would want for yourself. You may very well find yourself dealing with missionaries of other faiths one day (it happens - evangelical movements are growing rapidly among Muslims, Buddhists, for example). These guidelines should serve you just as well when you stand on the other side of the discussion - as the person they would convert.

Bright Blessings!
(a Pagan closing often used in writing)

Gwydion


Gwydion is a solitary Wiccan that presently resides in Elkhart, Indiana. He lived in Taiwan for over a decade, where he worked and studied. He is proudly "owned" by two boys, a dog, a ferret, and a substantial wildlife collection in his back yard.
 

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[Heather Delaria]

Bright Blessings!

Heather

[19Merlin69]

The problem you have here Heather (lack of responses) is that anyone who has actually studied the various religions knows that Chrisitianity did coopt the beliefs of many elder faiths; Wicca included.  I don't think that you are going to inspire much debate until a Christian or two is invited to join the forum. 

Sadly, even during the most heated debate with a Christian - you'll still be just as correct as you are now, but the rhetoric will become so thick that you'll loose interest.  Christianity is a religion written by people who knew they were coopting older sources, so they were smart, and designed it to be self-evident; therefore self-justifying.  By relying on "faith" you never have to make a case in fact.  So, in the end, debate is worthless (futile)...  IMHO.

[Heather Delaria]

Hi Merlin,

It's nice to see you here.

Actually, this entire thread was printed originally at Atlantis Rising previously. Most people liked it with the excpetion of Ishtar and Smiley - both are fundamentalist Christians.  The only arguments they had resulted in pagan bashing, which I found a little sad. Smiley had no concept of what a pagan actually is, and Ishtar seemed to blame us for all the evils of the world. 

I'm printing it here again for research purposes. Since I already got so many kind responses from people in the past, it doesn't really matter to me whether I get a lot of responses here.

I find today's typical Christian a bit narrow-minded and even a little bigoted so I am glad that there aren't many Chrstian fundamentalists around here.

Bright Blessings,

Heather

[19Merlin69]

Try living in a neighborhood with FuNdAmEnTaLiSt Christians, Wiccans and straight Pagans...  Sprinkle in an aetheist and an agnostic or two for good measure.  Top with a handful of Buddhists, three Muslim and 6 Hindu....There is nothing like watching a Wiccan High Preistess join sides with a Hindu and an agnostic to  debate a Pastor from the local "fundie group", an aetheist and an Islamic scholar.  OMG - that's entertainment.

[Wisteria]

Greetings Heather and Merlin

Interesting topic, as I am what one would call a Christo-Pagan. I'd actually never realized this or heard of the term until recently, and was pleasantly suprised to learn that Christo-Paganism has been around since the birth of Christianity itself. (I'm opening another thread about it).

I believe that the constant tension between Wiccans (a term that is not necessarily intercheangeble with "witch" and "pagan" by the way) stems from an ignorance and misunderstanding of the true nature and origins of these faiths on both sides. I can say this with certainty as I continue to observe and experience this myself.

And don't forget that true Christians (followers of Christ) have also long been persecuted by other "Christians" (organized, religious fundamentalists), as well as by non-Christians, and still are today in many parts of the globe.

The Roman Pagans mass-murdered both Christians and Pagans, and didn't change much when they became Roman Catholics, as they continued to murder Christians and Pagans.

So it's difficult to point the finger exclusively at any one group.

~ Wisteria

[Heather Delaria]

Hi Wisteria,

You raise a good point.  What does the bile being preached by today's Christian fundamentalists have to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ?  Nothing. The Christian fundamentalists have given all Christians a bad name.  I don't know who's teachings they're following, but they aren't those of Christ.

Bright Blessings!

Heather

[Heather Delaria]

Paganism

Within a Christian context, Paganism (from Latin paganus) and Heathenry are catch-all terms which have come to connote a broad set of spiritual/religious beliefs and practices of a natural religion, as opposed to the Abrahamic religions. These beliefs, which are not necessarily compatible with each other, are usually characterized by polytheism and animism. Often, the term has the same pejorative connotations as infidel and Kafir.

Etymology

Pagan
The term pagan is from Latin paganus, an adjective originally meaning "rural", "rustic" or "of the country". As a noun, paganus was used to mean "country dweller, villager". "Peasant" is a cognate, via Old French paisent. C. f. Harry Thurston Peck, Harper's Dictionary of Classical Antiquity (1897) [1].

In its distant origins, these usages derived from pagus, "province, countryside", earlier "something stuck in the ground", as a landmark, cognate to Greek άγος "rocky hill". The root pag- means "fixed" and is also the source of the words "page", "pale" (stake), and "pole", as well as "pact" and "peace". Later, through metaphorical use, paganus came to mean 'rural district, village' and 'country dweller' and, as the Roman Empire declined into military autocracy and anarchy, in the 4th and 5th centuries it came to mean "civilian", in a sense parallel to the English usage "the locals". It was only after the Roman introduction of serfdom, in which agricultural workers were legally bound to the land (see Serf), that it began to have negative connotations, and imply the simple ancient religion of country people, which Virgil had mentioned respectfully in Georgics. Like its approximate synonym heathen (see below), it was adopted by Middle English-speaking Christians as a slur to refer to those too rustic to embrace Christianity.

Neoplatonists in the Early Christian church attempted to Christianize the values of sophisticated pagans such as Plato and Virgil. This had some influence among the literate class, but did little to counter the more general prejudice expressed in "pagan".

[Heather Delaria]

Terminology


"Paganism" vs. "pagan"

Although the etymology of pagan can be tracked and its antiquity is known, the term paganism, appears not to have been widely used until much later, though paganismus is a term employed by Augustine. There is no evidence that the term is used in English before the 17th century. The OED instances Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776): "The divisions of Christianity suspended the ruin of paganism."

It is possible that the various pagan practices were not seen as instances of a more general 'paganism' at all until the point when the term was used to blur distinctions between non-Christian beliefs and make of them one homogenous, primitive mass. The term paganism thus belongs in a colonial or missionary context, in which it is used to describe a state rather than an organized belief system.

Common Word Usage

The term has historically been used as a pejorative by adherents of monotheistic religions (such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam) to indicate a disbeliever in their religion. "Paganism" is also sometimes used to mean the lack of (an accepted monotheistic) religion, and therefore sometimes means essentially the same as atheism. "Paganism" frequently refers to the religions of classical antiquity, most notably Greek mythology or Roman religion, and can be used neutrally or admiringly by those who refer to those complexes of belief. However, until the rise of Romanticism and the general acceptance of freedom of religion in Western civilization, "paganism" was almost always used disparagingly of heterodox beliefs falling outside of the established political framework of the Christian Church. It has more recently (from the 19th century) been used admiringly by those who believe the monotheistic religions to be confining or colourless.

"Pagan" came to be equated with a popular, Christianized sense of "epicurean" to signify a person who is sensual, materialistic, self-indulgent, unconcerned with the future and uninterested in sophisticated religion. The word was usually used in this worldly sense by those who were drawing attention to the limitations of paganism, as when G.K. Chesterton wrote:

"The pagan set out, with admirable sense, to enjoy himself. By the end of his civilization he had discovered that a man cannot enjoy himself and continue to enjoy anything else."

Perhaps such usages reflect more light on Victorians than on the world of Antiquity.

Heathenry

Old English hæðen refers to people who are neither Christians nor Jews. The term is used for Germanic paganism, or Germanic Neopaganism. The term 'heathenry' can be used to denote both the ancient pagan religion of the Germanic peoples and modern reconstructed versions of that religion such as Ásatrú. The linguistic/anthropological term 'Germanic' refers to a group of Northern European tribes who at one point shared a common language, culture and religion. By the year 500 CE, the Germanic culture had spread out into the areas of Europe which were to become present day Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Holland, and England. By the year 700 CE, the various dialects of the common-Germanic language were becoming mutually unintelligible and evolving into German, Dutch, English, and the Scandinavian languages.

Heathenry, like all ancient European pagan religions, is polytheistic.

[unknown]

Hi Heather

 gotta love good ole' Etymology

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