Atlantis Online
April 19, 2024, 10:00:35 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Towering Ancient Tsunami Devastated the Mediterranean
http://www.livescience.com/environment/061130_ancient_tsunami.html
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Galileo's Astrology

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Galileo's Astrology  (Read 1881 times)
0 Members and 80 Guests are viewing this topic.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 10:28:41 pm »









Galileo's Astrology combines contributions from historians of science and professional astrologers, beginning with the "trail blazing essay" (9) of Antonio Favaro, considered one of the subject's first,
and still few, historical investigators.

Observations by Nick Kollerstrom on the "astrologico-dynastic" (65) nature of Galileo's discovery of Jupiter's new moons--made in the form of notes to excerpts taken from Mario Biagioli's book, Galileo Courtier--make clear that Biagioli's interpretation of the "awesomely successful" (42) dedication of
the new moons to Cosimo II can be better understood by reading it partly in terms of the Grand
Duke's birth horoscope.

The ambiguity between what Kollerstrom describes as "a clever ploy" (3) and what Biagioli refers to
as an "astrological logic" in which, "as a practicing astrologer ... he totally believed" (65), is made further obscure, however, by Germana Ernst's account of Tommaso Campanella's disapproval of Ga-
lileo's astrological "incredulity" (29).

In addition to speculating on what Galileo believed about astrology, the contributors consider the various techniques Galileo employed. Vague observations, such as Bernadette Brady's that Galileo
"did not follow any one technique, preferring to use a combination" (125), are not often clarified, though this admittedly has more to do with the sparse amount of scholarship on the subject than anything else. Indeed, one of the implied insights of the work is that Galileo's astrology was not his alone to possess, and as such that the problems faced by scholars dealing with the topic involve contextual information that has yet to be yielded.

It is thus apparent that Galileo's sources of influence, the available ways in which astrology was practiced, and the responses he anticipated from intended audiences must be considered the responsibility of scholars of the early modern era more generally, as astrology reclaims its long-neglected intellectual and institutional importance in the period.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 10:31:15 pm »









In capturing much of what has been written on the subject, Galileo's Astrology is a helpful historiographical reference and a stark reminder of how sparse the secondary literature actually is. References to astrologically inclined contemporaries are few and tellingly brief: the names of Johannes Kepler and Jean Baptiste Morin, two additional examples of how early modern astrology has been overlooked in historical scholarship, surface several times without showing how "the question of Galileo's technical astrology" (5) might have been any different from contemporary notions.

As the editors underscore, astrology was "something shared and taken for granted by [Galileo] and
his contemporaries" (2), and the losses suffered by Galileo's astrological manuscripts have only further concealed an essential element of his personal and professional experience.

With its abundance of articles and primary sources, many of which are translated into English for
the first time, Galileo's Astrology anticipates ways in which a more complete picture of Galileo might emerge. In doing so, the work raises more questions than it answers, with the intention that scholars have more than enough fodder for future study.



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3394/is_/ai_n29260183
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 10:35:21 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2008, 10:48:06 pm »








                                      Galileo's astrology and telescopic discoveries






Added: 11/23/2006 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself." Such a famous quote from the astrologer himself, Galileo's astrology and his continued efforts to prove "how the heavens go" were just a few of his contributions and notable discoveries. Having caused such chaosis in the Roman Catholic Church that for the later part of his life he was placed on house arrest, discover here the life and accomplishments of Galileo's astrology.

Galileo Galilei was born on February 15, 1564 in Pisa, Italy. Galileo pioneered the "experimental scientific method" and was the first to use a refracting telescope to make important astronomical discoveries. As a professor of astronomy at University of Pisa, Galileo was required to teach the accepted theory of his time...that the sun and all the planets revolved around the Earth. Later, at the University of Padua, he was exposed to a new theory proposed by Nicholaus Copernicus. This theory stated that the Earth and all the other planets revolved around the sun.

Galileo didn't invent the telescope but he was the first to use the telescope to study the heavens systematically. What he had observed in the heavens rocked the very foundations of Aristotle's universe and the theological-philosophical worldview that it supported. It is said that what Galileo saw was so disturbing for some officials of the Church that they refused to even look through his telescope; they reasoned that the Devil was capable of making anything appear in the telescope, so it was best not to look through it. Galileo's observations with his newly fashioned telescope (which he fashioned a vastly superior model of one he had simply heard about from Holland) convinced him of the truth of Copernicus' sun-centered theory.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 11:07:34 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2008, 11:09:39 pm »





Galileo's astrology studies allowed him to observe the Sun through his telescope. Here, he saw that the Sun had dark patches, which we now call sun spots. He also observed motion of the sun spots indicating that the Sun was rotating on an axis. These "blemishes" on the Sun were contrary to the doctrine of an unchanging perfect substance in the heavens, and the rotation of the Sun made it less strange that the Earth might rotate on an axis, too, just lie the Copernican model. Galileo also observed four points of light that changed their positions with time around the planet Jupiter. He concluded that these were object in orbit around Jupiter. He later discovered these were the four brightest moons around Jupiter (which we now call the Galilean moons).

These observations showed that there were new things in the heavens that Aristotle and Ptolemy had not known about. They also demonstrated that a planet could have moons circling it that would not be left behind as the planet moved around its orbit.



Galileo also used his telescope to show that Venus went through a complete set of phases, just like the Moon. This was among the most important in human history because it provided the first conclusive observational proof that was consistent with the Copernican system but not the Ptolemaic system.

As noted above, Galileo's astrology studies also brought us other observations, such as showing that the planet were disks, not point of light, showing that the great "cloud" called the Milky Way was composed of enormous numbers of stars that had not been seen before, that the moon was not smooth, as once thought, but was covered by mountains and craters, and showing that the planet Saturn had "ears". This may seem strange, but we now know that Galileo's astrology studies discovered the rings of Saturn, his telescope was just not good enough to show them as more than extensions on either side of the planet!

Beginning with the Sidereus Nuncius in 1610, Galileo brought the Copernican issue before a wide audience. In his letters on sun spots and in his letter to the Grand Duchess Christina he actually interpreted the problematical biblical passage in the book of Joshua to conform to a heliocentric cosmology. Galileo's life was interesting, even for a man in his time. Galileo's astrology work related strongly to physics and was a pivotal figure in the development of modern astronomy. He provided the crucial observations that proved the Copernican hypothesis and also laid the foundations for a correct understanding of how objects moved on the surface of the earth and of gravity. This work, however, challenged the authority of the Church through his assault on the Aristotelian concept of the Universe and eventually got him into trouble with the Inquisition. Late in life, he was forced to recant his Copernican views and spend his last years under house arrest. Galileo's contributions including the "Law of Inertia" led Issac Newton, who was born in 1642, the year Galileo died laid the foundation for Newton's First Law of Motion.



http://www.syl.com/astrology/galileosastrologyandtelescopicdiscoveries.html
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:01:29 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 09:53:27 pm »



The diagram of the optical principles of the telescope from Sidereus Nuncius.
Image by kind permission of the Master and Fellows of Trinity College Cambridge.










                                                        The Telescope






The story of Galileo's telescope is well known, as he recounted it himself in the Starry Messenger.

In July 1609, Galileo was in Venice, when he heard of an invention that allowed distant objects to
be seen as distinctly as if they were nearby. In October 1608, a Flemish spectacle-maker by the
name of Hans Lipperhey had already applied for a patent (which was refused), and news of the
gadget was widespread in Europe by the time Galileo had heard of it. Around the same time, a
foreigner turned up in Padua with the instrument; Galileo rushed back to Padua, only to learn that
the foreigner had gone to Venice to sell his instrument.

Galileo's friend, Paolo Sarpi, had advised the Venetian government against purchasing the instrument from the foreigner, since Galileo could at least match such an invention. By then, Galileo had worked out the principle of the telescope and returned to Venice himself with an eight-power telescope. The Venetian government doubled his salary, though Galileo felt that the original conditions were not honoured.

Galileo gradually improved the power of his telescope, grinding lenses himself, and began observing the heavens. In the first two months of 1610, he was writing The Starry Messenger, and by 12 March, the book was already printed at Venice, dedicated to Cosimo de' Medici. Galileo continued his observations with his telescope, some of which he conveyed in ciphers to Johannes Kepler, who had already responded enthusiastically with the Conversation with Galileo's Sidereal Messenger.

Galileo's discovery of the 'handles' of Saturn was encoded in 'Smaismrmilmepoetaleumibunenugttaviras', which could be unscrambled as 'Altissimum planetam tergeminum observavi': I have observed the highest of the planets three-formed. Kepler deciphered this within one letter as 'Salve umbistineum geminatum Martia proles': 'Be greeted, double knob, children of Mars.'

For the discovery of the phases of Venus, the code 'Haec immatura a me jam frustra leguntur oy' (this was already tried by me in vain too early) hid the message, 'Cynthiae figurae aemulatur mater amorum' (The mother of lovers [Venus] imitates the shapes of Cynthia [the moon]). Despite this exchange, Galileo never accepted Kepler's elliptical orbits.

From 1616, Galileo tried to apply his knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter to the determination of longitude at sea. In order to ensure observation at sea, the Tuscan arsenal made for Galileo a headgear which had a telescope attached. Around this time, he also designed a brass 'Jovilabe', a computing device for prediction positions of the satellites. He hoped to gain support from the Spanish crown for this project, but failed.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 09:57:43 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 10:00:01 pm »









Galileo: Full Bibliography



Recommended Reading



Stillman Drake, Galileo at Work: His Scientific Biography, Chicago 1978

Galileo Galilei, The Starry Messenger, translated by A. van Helden, Chicago 1989

Peter Machamer (ed.) The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge 1998

James Reston Jr, Galileo: A life, New York 1994

Other Texts
Samuel Y. Edgerton Jr, 'Galileo, Florentine "Disegno" and the "Strange Spottednesse" of the Moon,' Art Journal 44 (1984), 225-232 investigates the role of training in art in order to interpret visual evidence.
Rivka Feldhay, 'Producing sunspots on an iron pan: GalileoÍs scientific discourse,' in H. Krips (ed.), Science, Reason and Rhetoric, Pittsburgh 1995, 119-43 investigates Galileo's rhetorical strategies of defending interpretation of visual evidence.

Owen Gingerich, 'The Galileo Affair', The Great Copernicus Chase and other adventures in astronomical history, Cambridge 1992, ch. 14, a popular, but helpful introduction to this topic.

Paul F. Grendler, The Roman Inquisition and the Venetian Press 1540-1605, Princeton 1977

Albert van Helden, 'The Telescope in the Seventeenth Century', Peter Dear (ed.) The Scientific Enterprise in Early Modern Europe, Chicago 1997. Isis 65 (1974).

Richard S. Westfall, 'Science and patronage: Galileo and the Telescope,' in Peter Dear (ed.) The Scientific Enterprise in Early Modern Europe, Chicago 1997, also published in Isis 76 (1985)

Mary G. Winkler, and Albert van Helden, 'Representing the Heavens: Galileo and Visual Astronomy', Isis 83 (1992), 195-217, for the implications of representing telescopic observations.

For more advanced reading, see Richard S. Westfall, Essays on the Trial of Galileo, Vatican 1989

Further helpful orientation and bibliography can be found in in Ernan McMullin, 'Galileo on Science and Scripture', Richard Blackwell, 'Could there be another Galileo case?' and Marcello Pera, 'The god of theologians and the god of astronomers: An apology of Bellarmine', all in Peter Machamer (ed.) The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge 1998. An important background to the affair was the struggle for hegemony between the Dominicans and the Jesuits, for which, see Rivkha Feldhay,

Galileo and the Church: political inquisition or critical dialogue?
Cambridge 1995.



This page is Copyright 1999, Sachiko Kusukawa and the Department of History and Philosophy of Science of the University of Cambridge
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2008, 10:06:25 pm »

 



               

                GALILEO'S TELESCOPES
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:07:20 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 10:11:41 pm »





                     
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2008, 10:14:19 pm »





             
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2009, 09:16:55 pm »













                                      T H E   C R I M E   O F   G A L I L E O   G A L I L E I





Papal Condemnation (Sentence)
of Galileo

(June 22, 1633)



Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were in the year 1615 denounced to this Holy Office for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the Sun is the center
of the world and immovable and that the Earth moves, and also with a diurnal motion; for having disciples to
whom you taught the same doctrine; for holding correspondence with certain mathematicians of Germany concerning the same; for having printed certain letters,entitled "On the Sunspots," wherein you developed the same doctrine as true; and for replying to the objections from the Holy Scriptures, which from time to time were urged against it, by glossing the said Scriptures according to your own meaning: and whereas there was thereupon produced the copy of a document in the form of a letter, purporting to be written by you to one formerly your disciple, and in this divers propositions are set forth, following the position of Copernicus, which are contrary to the true sense and authority of Holy Scripture:

This Holy Tribunal being, therefore, of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2009, 09:18:07 pm »










This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness
and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propo-
sitions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:

The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd
and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

But whereas it was desired at that time to deal leniently with you, it was decreed at the Holy Congregation held before His Holiness on the twenty-fifth of February, 1616, that his Eminence the Lord Cardinal Bellarmine should order you to abandon altogether the said false doctrine and, in the event of your refusal, that an injunction should be imposed upon you by the Commissary of the Holy Office to give up the said doctrine and not to teach it to others, not to defend it, nor even to discuss it; and your failing your acquiescence in this injunction, that you should be imprisoned. In execution of this decree, on the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the Cardinal Bellarmine, after being gently admonished by the said Lord Cardinal, the command was enjoined upon you by the Father Commissary of the Holy Office of that time, before a notary and witnesses, that you were altogether to abandon the said false opinion and not in the future to hold or defend or teach it in any way whatsoever, neither verbally nor in writing; and upon your promising to obey, you were dismissed.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2009, 09:23:09 pm »









And in order that a doctrine so pernicious might be wholly rooted out and not insinuate itself further to the grave prejudice of Catholic truth, a decree was issued by the Holy Congregation of the Index prohibiting the books which treat of this doctrine and declaring the doctrine itself to be false and wholly contrary to the sacred and divine Scripture.

And whereas a book appeared here recently, printed last year at Florence, the title of which shows that you were the author, this title being: “Dialogue of Galileo Galilei on the Great World System:”; and whereas the Holy Congregation was afterward informed that through the publication of said book the false opinion of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun was daily gaining round, the said book was taken into careful consideration, and in it there was discovered a patent violation of
the aforesaid injunction that had been imposed upon you, for in this book you have defended the said opinion previously condemned and to your face declared to be so, although in the said book you strive by various devices to produce the impression that you leave it undecided, and in express terms as probably: which, however, is a most grievous error, as an opinion can in no wise be probable which has been declared and defined to be contrary to divine Scripture.

Therefore by our order you were cited before this Holy office, where, being examined upon our oath, you acknowledged the book to be written and published by you.  You confessed that you began to write the said book about ten or twelve years ago, after the command had been imposed upon you as above; that you requested license ot print it without, however, intimating to those who granted you this license that you had been commanded not to hold, defend, or teach the doctrine in question in any way whatever.

You likewise confessed that the writing of the said book is in many places drawn up in such a form that the reader might fancy that the arguments brought forward on the false side are calculated by their cogency to compel conviction rather than to be easy of refutation, excusing yourself for having fallen into an error, as you alleged, so foreign to your intention, by the fact that you had written in dialogue and by the natural complacency that every man feels in regard to his own subtleties and in showing himself more clever than the generality of men in devising, even on behalf of false propositions, ingenious and plausible arguments.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2009, 09:25:02 pm »










And a suitable term having been assigned to you to prepare your defense, you produced a certificate in the handwriting of his Eminence the Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, procured by you, as you asserted, in order to defend yourself against the calumnies of your enemies, who charged that you had abjured and had been punished by the Holy Office, in which certificate it is declared that you had not abjured and had not been punished but only that the declaration made by His Holiness and published by the Holy Congregation of the Index has been announced to you, wherein it is declared that the doctrine of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun is contrary to the Holy Scriptures and therefore cannot be defended or held.  And, as in this certificate there is no mention of the two articles of the injunction, namely, the order not “to teach” and “in any way,” you represented that we ought to believe that in the course of fourteen or sixteen years you had lost all memory of them and that this was why you said nothing of the injunction when you requested permission to print your book.   And all this you urged not by way of excuse for your error but that it might be set down to a vainglorious ambitions rather than to malice.  But his certificate produced by you in your defense has only aggravated your delinquency, since, although it is there stated that said opinion is contrary to Holy Scripture, you have nevertheless dared to discuss and defend it and to argue its probability; nor does the license artfully and cunningly extorted by you avail you anything, since you did not notify the command imposed upon you.

And whereas it appeared to us that you had not stated the full truth with regard to your intention, we thought it necessary to subject you to a rigorous examination at which (without prejudice, however, to the matters confessed by you and set forth as above with regard to your said intention) you answered like a good Catholic.  Therefore, having seen and maturely considered the merits of this your cause, together with your confessions and excuses above-mentioned, and all that ought justly to be seen and considered, we have arrived at the underwritten final sentence against you:

Invoking, therefore, the most holy name of our Lord Jesus Christ and of His most glorious Mother, ever Virgin Mary, but this our final sentence, which sitting in judgment, with the counsel and advice of the Reverend Masters of sacred theology and Doctors of both Laws, our assessors, we deliver in these writings, in the cause and causes at present before us between the Magnificent Carlo Sinceri, Doctor of both Laws, Proctor Fiscal of this Holy Office, of the one part, and your Galileo Galilei, the defendant, here present, examined, tried, and confessed as shown above, of the other part—
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2009, 09:28:43 pm »










We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents.  From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that, first, with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith, you abjure, curse, and detest before use the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church in the form to be prescribed by us for you.

And in  order that this your grave and pernicious error and transgression may not remain altogether unpunished and that you may be more cautious in the future and an example to others that they may abstain from similar delinquencies, we ordain that the book of the “Dialogues of Galileo Galilei” be prohibited by public edict.

We condemn you to the formal prison of this Holy office during our pleasure, and by way of salutary penance we enjoin that for three years to come you repeat once a week at the seven penitential Psalms. Reserving to ourselves liberty to moderate, commute or take off, in whole or in part, the aforesaid penalties and penance.

And so we say, pronounce, sentence, declare, ordain, and reserve in this an din any other better way and form which we can and may rightfully employ.


[Signed:]


     F. Cardinal of Ascoli
    B. Cardinal Gessi
   G. Cardinal Bentivoglio
  F. Cardinal Verospi
   Fr. D. Cardinal of Cremona
  M. Cardinal Ginetti
     Fr. Ant. s Cardinal of. S. Onofrio



[Three judges did not sign the sentence: Francesco Barberini, Caspar Borgia, and Laudivio Zacchia.]





Source:  Giorgio de Santillana, The Crime of Galileo (University of Chicago Press 1955), pp. 306-310.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2009, 09:29:57 pm »




           









                                                               "EPPUR SI MUOVE" 

                                                               "Yet it does move"






Mumbling these words quietly to himself, or so the story goes, Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) left the session of the Inquisition that had found him guilty after a trial for "grave suspicion of heresy".

The "heresy" was in connection with his publication of a book, "Dialogue on the Tides" in which his belief in the Copernican notion of a Sun centered universe had sort of "slipped in".

In Italy in 1633, suggesting that the earth, that rock solid center of God's universe actually moved around another body, the Sun, was not the wisest thing to do. In fact that idea could get you killed... or worse. Galileo got off easy since he was sentenced to life in prison which lucky for him, became permanent house arrest instead.

Oh, and in addition, he was commanded to never mention the idea again, his book was burned and the sentence against him was to be read publicly in every university.



                                                  "And yet it does move".



He may not actually have said it, in fact it would have been extremely dangerous for him to do that, but he no doubt thought it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 10:44:41 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy