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Pyramids: Cast, Poured, or Both?

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Author Topic: Pyramids: Cast, Poured, or Both?  (Read 8161 times)
Qoais
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2007, 07:26:53 pm »

They also had Basalt roadways:



Basalt melts at about 984° to 1260° and granite at about 1215° to 1260°

To make the roads of Basalt, I doubt very much they stood under a volcano with buckets to catch the lava!!!  They would have had to melt the stuff to spread it.  SO IF THEY COULD MELT BASALT THEY COULD MELT GRANITE Both have the same high end degrees of temperature for melting.


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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Bianca
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 07:57:48 pm »




Q:

Wanderer puts it better than I did:


Wanderer
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     Re: Forbidden Archaeology : masterpiece of science
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2007, 10:45:19 am » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jake I like your observation concerning "the accepted norm."   In the world of archeology and many others people have all sorts of time and reputations invested in their particular points of view and theories.  Anything that rocks their boat is an attack upon their livelyhood so opposing ideas are shouted down as it were.

Things we take now as simple and basic were once fought over in the acedemic circles.  Just the furor over the Lucy's discovery in the 1970s illustrates it.  Now we accept that the australapithicines are valid members in the hominid to human evolution.  But it took the dethroning of a few old ideas with absolute proof of something different. We've uncovered a pitiful few fossils reflecting out human ancestry really relative to all things. 

As with most scientific breakthroughs and discoveries it takes a new approach and out-of-the-norm thinking to make significant strides.  When we begin believing that most is impossible we lose the whole spirit of human and proto-human existance.  There are people who don't want to accept anything new in any field of science or non-science.

Remember in 1900 the head of the pantent office thought it should be closed since everything worthwhile that could ever be invented had been.  It's a great illustration of close-mindedness.
 
 
B
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Qoais
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 08:32:52 pm »

Hi Bianca
That was very well put.  The time is long over due to review these old theories especially when they've been proven impossible.  I'm definitely not saying it wasn't a huge amount of work.  Whichever way it was done, it was an INCREDIBLE amount work.  Even if it turns out that the stones were lifted with harmonics, it's still a lot of work. 
Here is an article about the "Old Road", although when you read it, you'll still hear some of that "good ole boy" attitude in it.

The road to Giza - world's oldest known paved road near Egyptian Pyramids of Giza
Discover, August, 1994


THE PYRAMIDS OF GIZA WERE built of limestone and granite. But in one of the adjoining mortuary temples, where the bodies of the pharaohs were prepared for entombment, the ancient Egyptian architects paved the floor with black basalt. The basalt came from quarries that lie 40 miles southwest of Giza. The Egyptians did not attempt to drag three-ton blocks of basalt across 40 miles of desert, says geologist Thomas Bown of the U.S. Geological Survey. Instead they dragged the blocks to a lake connected to the Nile, loaded them on barges, and floated them down to Giza--a circuitous journey of more than 100 miles, but one that saved a lot of dragging. The road to the lake, which Bown and his colleague James Harrell discovered recently along with the quarries, was only seven and a half miles long. Built some 4,600 years ago, it is the world's oldest known paved road.

A few segments of the road had been noticed by other geologists as early as 1905, but it was thought to be much younger and its significance remained unappreciated. In 1987, while working on a completely unrelated project, Bown visited the area. "I got up on top of a cliff," he recalls, "and--bingo!--saw all these road segments that nobody had ever reported before." On that same trip Bown also discovered what looked to him like a small basalt quarry.

Last year he returned to the site with Harrell, a geologist at the University of Toledo, Ohio, who is an authority on ancient Egyptian quarrying techniques. Bown and Harrell discovered another, larger quarry, more road segments, and a camp used to house the quarry workers. Pottery fragments found in the camp and quarries helped date the road to Egypt's Old Kingdom, sometime between 2575 and 2134 B.C. A microscopic analysis of the basalt at Giza and at the nearby necropolis of Saqqara showed that both came from Bown and Harrell's quarries.

The construction of the quarry road is somewhat less impressive than that of the pyramids. "They didn't bother to make a roadbed," says Bown. "There were no signs of leveling of the road in any place." The pavement consists of sandstone, limestone, basalt, and, in one section, petrified wood. The road builders took whatever rock was at hand, picked out the largest straight-edged pieces to form the borders of the road, and filled the middle with smaller pieces. In one respect, though, they displayed some of the precision that went into the pyramids: in sections that haven't eroded, the road is exactly four ancient Egyptian cubits wide (just under seven feet).

Today the road leads nowhere, beginning at the quarries and ending at an ancient quay--a quay that now stands high and dry, about six miles from the banks of a lake called Birket Qarun. When the quay was built, however, it stood on the shore of Lake Moeris, a much larger body of water that was connected to the Nile during the annual summer flood. The road to the quay included uphill segments--which may explain why it is the only paved road known from ancient Egypt: the routes from other Egyptian quarries, Bown says, led downhill or over flat terrain. Egyptians didn't start using draft animals or wagons until about 100 B.C., and to drag blocks of basalt uphill on sleds, they may have required the technological breakthrough of pavement. "The combination of the incline plus the very soft sand they'd have to be dragging the blocks through was just too much," Bown says. "They needed a harder surface."


In this article it says that they did'n't "level" the road bed.  Then how was the top of it made smooth?  There's no point in building a road of big blocks if they stick up from each other.  You still wouldn't be able to pull a sled over.  You can't just toss the blocks down on a pile of rubble and expect it to smooth itself out.
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 10:24:56 pm »

I would not be surprised that there were"giants in those days" and all the little pigmies were made to work double-time:



Look how large the feet above these peoples heads.  (They have the facial features of "gray" ET's)  The giants above them have clothing that comes to the ground for some reason.  On the far right, whatever they're carrying, looks like a coiled, corrugated hose.

Maybe they didn't shave their heads afterall, maybe they were "grays" all along, trying to blend in. Tongue
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2007, 02:15:13 pm »

Assuming the ancients had nothing harder than copper or flint tipped picks the material must have been reasonably soft, that being the case the method of cutting out blocks, levering them onto sledges, hauling them up the pyramid, that alone pulling them around corners and then levering them backwards and forwards enabling them to fit them to the adjoining blocks is just not on. The block would have fallen apart even before they left the quarry!
We know the quarry was made up of sedimentary materials, so why do they appear to be "ROCK?"

We need to look no further then the creamy colored material under the rock-like crust where the cubes were removed.

This is what we need to look at not the dark top cover crust.
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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2007, 02:17:49 pm »

A Brief History of Plaster and Gypsum



Plaster results from the calcination of gypsum (CaSO4, 2 H2O), which partially dehydrates to produce a hemi-hydrate (CaSO4 , ˝ H2O).



The oldest traces of plaster renders are 9,000 years old, and were found in Anatolia and Syria. We also know that 5,000 years ago, the Egyptians burnt gypsum in open-air fires, then crushed it into powder, and finally mixed this powder with water to make jointing material for the blocks of their monuments, such as the magnificent Cheops Pyramid for example. The ancient Egyptians used models of plaster taken directly from the human body.

The Greeks also used gypsum, in particular as window for their temples when it was of a transparent quality ("selenite gypsum"). The writer Theophraste (372-287 BC) described quite precisely the fabrication of plaster as it was done at that time in Syria and Phenicia.

The Romans cast in plaster many thousands of copies of Greek statues.

Plaster of Paris. Throughout the centuries, expertise was gained in many parts of the World with gypsum calcinations. In the 1700's, Paris was already the "capital of plaster" ("Plaster of Paris") since all the walls of wooden houses were covered with plaster, as a protection against fire. The King of France had enforced this rule after the big London fire literally destroyed this city in 1666. Large gypsum deposits near Paris have long been mined to manufacture… "Plaster of Paris".

From Gypsum to Plaster of Paris. Gypsum is a sedimentary rock, which settled through the evaporation of sea water trapped in lagoons. According to the nature of its impurities, gypsum can show various colors, ranging from white to brown, yellow, gray and pink.

Gypsum selection and preparation (cleaning, classifying) are key factors to produce the best plasters. The chemical reaction is :

(CaSO4, 2 H2O) + heat = (CaSO4, ˝ H2O) + 1.5 H2O
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2007, 02:37:33 pm »

When we think of the ancients and what "technology" they had, we realize that it must have been fairly simple and we have to take into consideration just what exactly, they had available to them at any given time, and how just everday commanalities could be used for industrial purposes. Most things were likely common sense, with necessity being the mother of invention or - adaptation.

Understanding the properties of Calcinated(or calcined) Gypsum (CG) and Calcinated Limestone (CL) is very important.

Cement; (CL) With the dry process raw materials are dried before or during grinding. The principal raw materials are Limestone, silica sand, clay, shale, oxides of chalk. Silica , aluminum and iron are added in the forms of sand, clay, shale, sea shells (medium size particles of sedimentary layers, like clay, iron oxide, Gypsum. (See previous post for a bit about gypsum)

I'll just re-post this bit about diotomaceous earth:

Diatomaceous earth (IPA: /ˌdʌɪətəˈmeɪʃəs ˈəː(r)θ/, also known as DE, diatomite, diahydro, kieselguhr, kieselgur and Celite) is a naturally occurring, soft, chalk-like sedimentary rock that is easily crumbled into a fine white to off-white powder. This powder has an abrasive feel, similar to pumice powder, and is very light, due to its high porosity. The typical chemical composition of diatomaceous earth is 86% silica, 5% sodium, 3% magnesium and 2% iron.

Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae.

A good book for information of what the AE's had available to them is Atlas of Ancient Egypt by Baines & Malek. From this tome, we find that coal was also available.
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2007, 02:57:57 pm »

Minimum Fuel - Maximum Heat = Adobe Oven



From the pictures you can see how a Plug is formed simply buy using koolite boxes, house bricks and a stabilized clay-sand mix.

Stabilised Sand can be formed by combining any sort of fine mineral with {(CG) and or (CL)} with water. The ratio of sand to (CG) or (CL) is between 10 and 15 to one.

After the final layup the Plug is removed through the doorway.


Notice the angle produced by the CAD program after following the (interior dome height) to (top of door height) dimensions.

Firing the oven with minimum fuel and to achieve maximum heat is the secret to the ancient way of processing quarried materials.
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2007, 03:06:43 pm »

Firing Oven:

The oven is fully stoked with logs ( 6"- 12" )leaving enough room just inside the doorway to start a small starter fire.
Once the starter fire is reduced to coals or the main logs have just caught the oven is closed up to what we know today as; ( Slow combustion state )
24hrs in this mode will SUPER HEAT (SH) the fuel load as well as preheating the oven. ( 85% of SH-ed fuel load will still remain.)
By opening the door the fuel load will instantly burst into action. As the oven has no exhaust it's SHing capabilities are somewhat reduced.
To obtain the SH stage required, compressed air is introduced to the oven.

However the AE's would have simply added exhausts with variable chokes to obtain the same degree of heat while obtaining maximum benefit from the fuel load.
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2007, 03:17:59 pm »

Once again we look at the trenches at the Quarry:


We know the quarry was made up of sedimentary materials, so why do they appear to be "ROCK?"

Using nothing more than the trenches themselves as "Adobe Ovens" and nothing more than the oven firing principle to fire the trenches, a situation would have been created whereby the materials were calcined. Naturally the trenches were filled to the top with fuel such as animal manure, wood, coke and or coal.

The first 6"to 1' of the cubes and ceiling would virtually have become red hot.Once the material cooled down the removal would be quite easy as it's structure is weakened considerably.

The vertical washouts or erosion cavities on the quarry face indicate where the exhausts were located, being subjected to the most and prolonged SH.

Basically the internal material of the "cubes" with water added would make up the main fill mixture for the core of the pyramid.

The outer core material facing the weather would need an extra

additive such as a clinked limestone, iron oxide, clay, sand and aluminates pulverized into what we know as cement. (Items we find in diotomaceous earth and sand they will NEVER run out of!)

The remaining surfaces such as the new quarry face and cube bases would have set rock hard being exposed to moisture from the (atmosphere, surrounding material or rain). The dark color is attributed to oxidation.


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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 03:30:22 pm »



The method used in this quarry shown below was basically used for extraction, pulverizing and transportation to a distant site. Please note the out crops on the left hand side of the photo.

Closer Up



Oviously the face of the quarry was accessed by the ramp which is still visible.

On close inspection note the darker color of the outcrops compared to the quarry face, this indicates a much harder substance.

Note the size and number of the pounding like marks on it's surfaces, most visible on the left hand side.

A rough base was formed to level the site (visible) with the structure placed on top. What was it's purpose?

A Crusher Anvil.

Please observe the pounding marks starting from the top.

3 or 4 large at the top working down to many small ones at the bottom.

With a timber or log gantry erected on all 3 sides, wider at the top narrowing towards the bottom of the anvil, quarried material would have been delivered and crushed to fines by horizontal pole pounders supported by an extension of the gantry above .

The lower pounding poles may have been hand operated.

As the material had to be transported to a distant site, firing the trenches was oviously not an option as the calcined material would have set by absorbing atmospheric moisture before arrival.

The quarry is made up of SOFT sandstone so no great effort was required in the extraction process.

Petrie referred to most excavations as ROCK-CUT however if you were required to excavate a 4 foot square 20 foot deep shaft into a sedimentary layered material, what would you do to stabilize the walls so they wouldn't cave in?

To the AE's the answer would have been simple, excavate the first 5 to 10 feet, build a fire in the excavation, calcine the walls and allow the atmospheric moisture or moisture already in the surrounding material to be absorbed back into the calcined walls, this would have stabilized the walls and given them an appearance that looked like natural ROCK.

Where Petrie compares good workmanship to rough workmanship in regards to certain surfaces this can be attributed to the amount of wear that took place on them rather than the quality of the actual finishes.

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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2007, 03:51:55 pm »

Lime is one of the oldest products known to man, and dates back to the stone age. Primitive kilns believed to have been used to produce lime during this era have been excavated and it is believed that lime is the first manufactured chemical to be used by man. In fact lime plaster in reasonably good condition has been found in the pyramids, some 4,500 years old.

Mixed with coal and burned at extremely high temperatures of up to 1,000 degrees centigrade the limestone or calcium carbonate yielded carbon dioxide and calcium oxide also known as quicklime. Although hard work, the method was easy: alternate layers of coal and limestone were tipped in the top of the kiln and the burnt remains removed through the small doors at the base

Draw kilns operate under the principal of gravity. Limestone is fed into the top of the kiln and the cooked stone removed from the bed of the kiln. Fireplaces were located at the sides of the kiln where fuel was burnt to cook limestone. The great advantage of the draw kiln was that it could be operated on a continual basis and was more efficient from the standpoint of fuel economy. Later improvement to the draw kiln, which improved their fuel economy and allowed greater control of the firing temperatures was the introduction of water powered bellows.

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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2007, 06:00:17 pm »

To the east of the Great Pyramid, Petrie found passages cut into the rock floor that are very similar to the passages inside the Great Pyramid. These he called "trial passages", thinking they were a trial run for making the actual pyramid passage. The trial passages are just north of the cause-way of Khufu beside the tomb of Hetepheres. They lie 87.50 m. from the eastern base of Khufu's pyramid and 43.50 m. north of the east-west axis.

"The passages are oriented north to south, the rock was cut carefully and well squared, and some parts were encased with mortar. The passages have a total length of 22 m. and a total vertical depth of 10 m. At the north end there is an opening in the bedrock when is cut in steps. This becomes a sloping passage 1.05 m. wide and 1.20 m. high, which continues at an angle of 26°3''. From the north entrance of this passage, a second passage, of almost identical cross-sectional dimensions, begins. This second passage ascends southward at approximately the same angle as that by which the first passage descends. At 5.8 m. from its beginning, this second passage reaches the surface of the bedrock and widens into a corridor which is open to the sky. A square shaft, about 0.72 m. m width, was cut vertically from the surface of the bedrock to the point where the two passages meet. About 6 m. west of the trial passages and parallel to them is a long and narrow trench considered the third trial passage. This runs parallel to the other passages, and is almost exactly equal in width to the vertical shaft in the trial passages. Its southern end is well-cut but its northern end was left rough. It measures 0.15 m. deep at the north end and 0.43 m, deep at the south end. This narrow trench is 0.71 m. wide and 7.35 m. long."
This trench was clearly used for calcining Gypsum and Limestone.

Yellow = Calcined crust formations.

Enclosed red area = Rock-like crust removed exposing weaker material behind.


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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2007, 06:07:15 pm »



This is a rough overlay of a Draw Kiln to the Great Pyramid with the "trial" passages and other internal passages of the GP.

The GP passages are nothing more than a "Cement Factory production line" as we know it.
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2007, 06:51:31 pm »



That's:

A Picture Worth a Thousand Words or millions of dollars.

Clearly it can be seen the original soft creamy colored material is exposed under the Rock-like Crust.

This crust has been calcined and set off by moisture, so why call it natural ROCK?

So - now you know why MR. Hawass won't give out samples, and why he's trying to fence everything off, and keep people out. The big secret he's been keeping, is that he's known all along the BIG SECRET. How could he not? With all our modern technology, he's probably known for a long time that the old cut-block theory was a load of horsefeathers.

Why perpetuate this myth? Why not be up front and teach people the truth? Where would the Egyptians lose face by admitting the truth? The tourists would probably come in droves. This method is totally logical for the technology of the day, the Egyptians were very clever to figure it out, and should be given credit for it.

It would not surprise me that one day we hear this NEWS FLASH claiming something like "Mr. Hawass has discovered the true secret to the building of the pyramids" Read all about it!
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