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what was the language of Atlantis?

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julia
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« on: May 16, 2007, 10:33:13 pm »

Someone is suggesting it was old negev(Old hebrew)

Couldnt carry here because of the pictures sorry.

http://occult-advances.org/language.shtml
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julia
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 10:44:01 pm »

Glozel stones:
http://www.gerbeaud.com/glozel/gbdatations.htm
The Dating of Glozel
Glozel is certainly one of the European sites which has been subjected to the greatest amount of research by highly qualified professionals from the time of its discovery. But the fierceness of the attacks by Glozelts detractors has led to a stalemate in spite of the richness of the results and the successive demonstrations of Glozel's undeniable authenticity.

In the 1970s a team of scientists (Vagn Mejdahl from Denmark, Hugh McKerrelt from Edinburgh, and Henri François of the Fontenay Atomic Test Centre> became interested in Glozel and used thermoluminescence to test Glozel ceramics.

Henri François did not hesitate to ask Dr Zimmerman of the University of Washington, who is attached to the McDonnel Center for Space Science, to undertake an investigation, as the one person capable of doing this. The aim was to determine if the Glozel ceramics were indeed authentic and not recently produced ounterfeits. Basing his conclusion on a property particular to zircon grains, Dr Zimmerman said: "There is no possibility that these two samples from Glozel are of recent date and artificially irradiated in order to make them appear old. We conclude that they were truly made in antiquity. " This conclusion certainly reinforced observations previously made, including that of the geologist, M. E. Bruet, who in 1928 concluded that the tablets with inscriptions must have been fired at a temperature of between 600 and 700 degrees.

The Glozel artifacts, which currently number some 2,500 pieces, were found in a single, well defined archaeological layer. This layer was described as being from the Neolithic by Dean Charles Depéret5. The recent international congress on Carbon-14 dating and archaeology, held in Lyon in 1998, noted that the Neolithic existed in Europe in the last centuries of the seventh millenium and was widespread by the first haîf of the sixth millenium.

The "Champ des Morts" was the subject in 1974 of an investigation using a proton magnetometer undertaken by Mrs Lemercier of the Center for Nuclear Studies in Grenoble. This confirmed the results of Dr Antonin Morlet who excavated this site with Mr. Fradin for more than 15 years. He left numerous places untouched 50 that future generations either by new excavations or new technical approaches could add to the information already avaîlable. Comparison of the results of an aerial survey with those of Mrs. Lemercier reveals traces of intact structures at the level of the "Champ des Morts' and also in nearby areas, above and to the left of the area when coming from the museum.
 

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Elric
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 02:11:36 am »

Great find, Julia:


The Language of the Lost City of Atlantis Continent
Occult-Advances.org


Here is an exclusive alphabetic chart, built from various linguistic sources (click to enlarge):



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Elric
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 02:14:25 am »

Explanations:
- old Arabic, Hebrew, Greek and Roman alphabets are very close together, both in the shape of letters and their succession: alif/ba/gim... alpha/beta/gamma... aleph/bet/gimmel... This suggests a common origin, which the bible says to be antediluvian:

"Now the whole earth had one language and few words. And as men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there.  "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens." And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. And the Lord said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." Therefore the name of the city was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth." Genesis 11

Studying the oldest languages we know about may gives useful hints for the quest of that language:

- old Arabic languages are very different from modern Arabic, but very close to old Hebrew:

   Safaitic, Lihyanite are languages from old Arab tribes, in south Arabian desert; since they were relatively isolated from other cultures, their languages had few evolutions, which is of interest: they remain close to their original language

   Surprisingly, in Colorado, petroglyphs have been found who match old Arabian alphabet 500 BC more than 90% :


More astonishing, these scripts relate stories about Temple, Adonai, ... and should come from an Arabian tribe living in the area of Israel, after the temple's building by King Solomon, just as Lihyanites. It seems impossible to have these scripts in Colorado.
Yet, an objective study of the book of Mormon claims Lehi (a Lihyanite...) was ordered by YHVH to quit the land of Israel and to travel to a new land, which the book of Mormon claims to be America. Therefore, some of the native Americans may be  of Arabic and Jewish origin, emigrating around 500 or 600BC.

Dating, location, alphabetical correspondences, content of the stories (temple, Adonai, ...), climatic correspondences (the new land in partly desert) etc, ...give sense to the Book of Mormon, although I was skeptic before. It would be interesting to compare DNA from natives Americans of Colorado and DNA from Jewish and south Arabic. Some correspondences may prove the reliability of the story of Mormon.

Note that the author uses Hebrew roots to translate petroglyphs: it means old Arabic was grammatically very close to Hebrew. (and not just the alphabet).

 Read http://www.viewzone.com/expo2002.html to learn more about this discovery.

- Royal Sabean is a the language of the Queen of Sheba, who lived in Ethiopia 950 BC; she had a son with King Salomon who built the first Jewish temple: here is an example of beautiful Sabean script:

 

- Ethiopian 1200BC is the ancestor of Sabean, and Thamudic is the oldest Arabic script known, 1500BC

There is a great homogeneity between these alphabets: there was little variation during centuries: they shouldn't be too far from the first worldwide alphabet.

- the chart also displays various roman alphabets, dating from 300BC to 700 BC; they are said to come from Etruscan and Greek

- Greek alphabets 800BC-900BC are not exactly the same, even at the same period: Greece was a federation of cities with alphabetic variations

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Elric
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 02:18:24 am »


Note on the chat that Khi from Athens and Miles corresponds to Ksi from Arcadia and older Greek alphabets. The central mountains of the Peloponnese, Arcadia, did not get any new inhabitants. That is why the Arcadian dialect is the closest to the original

These Greek alphabets are said to come from Phoenician 1200BC:

Very important:

The Greek alphabet has letters for all consonants and for all vowels phthongs, whereas the Phoenician, the Hebrew and the more ancient alphabets had letters only for the consonants (= b, d, g, p, v, f, t, th, c, h, m, n, l, r, s, z) and for long vowels (aleph = aa, ayin = uu, yod = ii).

THE OLDEST ALPHABETS WERE ONLY CONSONANTS and written usually from right to left (just as Hebrew today). More, as we pointed out for old Arabic translations, old languages roots can be understood thanks to modern Hebrew.

THEREFORE, The OLD Hebrew language, its grammar, IS not so far from the original MOST ANCIENT language.

More, you should know that Hebrew (and Arabian) roots are mostly  3-consonant-letters roots: with 22 or 28 original letters (6 letters seem to have been forgotten in Hebrew, but remain in Arabic or Greek alphabets), you can obtain 28*28*28 = 21952 roots: that is enough for describing subtle variations of life.

ORIGINAL LANGUAGES ROOTS WERE MOSTLY 3- CONSONANT-LETTERS ROOTS

Even more, ORIGINAL LANGUAGE SHOULD HAVE  THE SAME LETTERS SUCCESSION AS THE MAJOR ALPHABETS OF THIS CHART (with possible differences between the 6 last letters of Arabic and European alphabets).

Note that in Egypt (Demotic, Meroitic), in North Europe (Runes), in India (Brahmi), in North Africa (Berber) and even in West Africa other alphabets from 2000BC to 1200AC have astonishing correspondences with the alphabets of the chart:


A late runic text from Scandinavia - Codex Runicus - 12th century.


Brahmi language 500BC;  many letters correspond to the ones in the chart.

Note that significant differences between European alphabets (including Phoenician et Hebrew, very close to European), and south Arabic alphabets:

- Arabic Waw corresponds to European Phi

- Arabic Kha corresponds to European Ksi Arcadia / Khi Athens

- Arabic Dhal corresponds to European Khi Arcadia / Psi Athens

- European Chet / Eta corresponds to Arabic Dad

- etc

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Elric
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 02:21:48 am »

Now, we shall go further since some archeologists have excavated older scripts which match very well to these alphabets; these early European alphabets are mostly engraved in stones, potteries or sculptures, which remain unchanged after several millenaries.

1. Vinca Tordos is a located on the right bank of the Danube in former Yugoslavia: findings dating from the Neolithic age, as early as 6000 BC. Some findings have inscriptions engraved:




These signs are not just drawings, but seem to be part on an alphabet, very close to the ones we studied; click here to view a translation's attempt of one of the tablets

People in Vinca Tordos also had a number system: click here to learn

Click here to learn more by visiting Vinca Tordos Online Museum

2. After the discovery of a wooden plate at Dispilion Kastorias, which was dated at 5300 BC, we know Greek Alphabet was in use at 6000 BC :



« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 02:25:26 am by Elric » Report Spam   Logged
Elric
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 02:27:37 am »

3. In Le Mas d'Azil, France, dozens of artistic pieces dating from the Neolithic age 8000BC / 10000BC and even earlier have been found thanks to deep underground excavations. What is very interesting for our purpose is that letters were sometimes engraved (artistic signatures):


There are enough symbols to build an alphabet which surprisingly match VERY WELL the more recent ones, but unfortunately no complete text has been found there.

There are several Neolithic places in these area of France. The most interesting is Glozel.

4. Glozel, less than 500km from Le Mas d'Azil, is a key place: more than  2500 Neolithic objects have been found since 1924, some of them engraved with letters or short texts.


There are more writings on Glozel artistic pieces than on Le Mas d'Azil ones: not only is it possible to build an entire alphabet, but we can spot a few words.

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Elric
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 02:28:44 am »

More astonishing, among the 2500 Neolithic objects found in Glozel, there are several totally engraved stones :

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Elric
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 02:31:19 am »

These stones are not hoax: Thermoluminescence and Carbon 14 tests confirm they are authentic and date from Neolithic.

Learn more about Glozel Stones    /   Visit the museum of Glozel http://www.museedeglozel.com/ / Learn more about the dating of Glozel Stones

There is enough material to go forward.

1. Glozel alphabet match very well other alphabets (see chart above)

2. I introduced probabilities of matching since there are sometimes several possibilities of corresponding letters: the more one letter corresponds to other alphabets, the higher the probability is, and especially if these alphabets are from Europe, since Glozel is in France:
I tried to find correspondences with European alphabets, and if there was no good matching, I tried old Arabic alphabets. the resulting alphabet seems to me quite reliable.

3. Glozel language is very structured and well written: compare Glozel tablets with the ones found in South Arabia or Colorado desert: people who wrote these texts were well educated.

4. Look at Glozel tablets: they seem to have been written horizontally, and probably from right to left, just like the earliest languages we talked about.

5. They date from 8000 to 10000BC : Glozel language must be very close to the antediluvian worldwide language (the Deluge is thought to have taken place around 11000BC)

6. There is approximately 28 or 30 main letters very close to other old alphabets; therefore, keeping the same order and the names of letters makes sense, even if the original pronunciation may vary.

7. As we pointed out above, just like the oldest alphabets, Glozel alphabet must be consonant (each of the main 28 letters corresponds to a consonant). It is therefore a phonetic alphabet, in my opinion.

8. A very careful study of the tablets show there are subtle variations for each letter (typically 4 or 5 variations)



My hypothesis is that these 4 or 5 variations for each letter code vowels. (it seems logical: a main letter codes consonant, and a small variation codes each possible variation from this letter, that is to say vowels).

Therefore, Glozel language (and antediluvian's one), must be Unicode Syllabaries (click here to learn more about this family of alphabets)

9. To translate the inscriptions (still undeciphered), one should write the corresponding Hebrew text, and the corresponding old Greek text (Greek vowels will have to be added later since Greek code both consonants and vowels)

It is known since a long time that there are correspondences between Hebrew and Greek: see Joseph Yehuda's work to learn more "Hebrew is Greek" : for examples:

Israel is the name used for the Jewish state; some dictionaries provide the following etymology: Israel = "powerful." What they don't realize, however, is that this word is made up of three Greek words: Is/ra/el, i.e. is = εις or powerful; ra = king; el = sun or Apollo Zeus.
Rabbi is the word used for their priest, in other words "the shepherd." The word's etymology is from the Greek word Ράβδος or Ραβδί, meaning the stick used by the shepherd when leading his flock. This is how Rabbi came to signify the shepherd. Priests and bishops also hold a cane or stick, which symbolizes their power.
Emmanuel is the Jewish name of Christ which is translated as "God with(in) me" without providing the etymology of the word, which is really made up of three Greek words; Εμοί εν Ηλ(ί) or εν εμοί ο Ήλιος or within me is God (Pythagoras' theory).
With two dictionaries, an old Greek one and an Hebrew one, it is virtually possible to translate Glozel Tablets, just as Gary Vey did for Colorado old petroglyphs.

Finally, one should be virtually able to translate antediluvian texts, that is to say texts from Atlantis. This is a work in progress...

 

PS: Have you any idea of the origin of this antediluvian language? This painting made by an Australian Aborigen thousands of years ago may be part of the solution...   


http://occult-advances.org/language.shtml
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Danaus
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 08:52:32 am »

Since Pliny's word Gadir is Punic/Carthaginian... I am going with Punic.
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julia
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 09:54:53 am »

Dear Elric; Cheesy
Thank you to bring those into the forum.I couldnt bring the pictures, I dont know how to..

Do you think Glozel language or alphabet related with the runic alpahabet?? Georgeos Diaz said The finding in taratessos language is auniqiue language.Is this also??Where can we ask??
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 10:19:20 am »

Elric,

From your link:

" Safaitic, Lihyanite are languages from old Arab tribes, in south Arabian desert; since they were relatively isolated from other cultures, their languages had few evolutions, which is of interest: they remain close to their original language

   Surprisingly, in Colorado, petroglyphs have been found who match old Arabian alphabet 500 BC more than 90% :

(picture--see link)

More astonishing, these scripts relate stories about Temple, Adonai, ... and should come from an Arabian tribe living in the area of Israel, after the temple's building by King Solomon, just as Lihyanites. It seems impossible to have these scripts in Colorado.
Yet, an objective study of the book of Mormon claims Lehi (a Lihyanite...) was ordered by YHVH to quit the land of Israel and to travel to a new land, which the book of Mormon claims to be America. Therefore, some of the native Americans may be  of Arabic and Jewish origin, emigrating around 500 or 600BC."

Is this perhaps related to the report of an "Egyptian tomb" high in the cliffs above the Colorado River that was reported in ANCIENT AMERICAN mag some years ago?


Also:

"Israel is the name used for the Jewish state; some dictionaries provide the following etymology: Israel = "powerful." What they don't realize, however, is that this word is made up of three Greek words: Is/ra/el, i.e. is = εις or powerful; ra = king; el = sun or Apollo Zeus. "

I wish that ancient proto-Finnish could also be included in the group of letters above as Is Ra El is quite similar excepting for Is: ice...basically Sun King from the Ice....from the Alphernas-Beten, the sound system.
  http://www.greaterthings.com/CiprianPater/AlphernasBeten.htm

www.bocksaga.com

www.bocksaga.de

Here is a Master's Thesis by Paul Knighton on Alphernas Beten

http://www.bocksaga.de/description_print.htm

Please click on the link to read the whole thesis...most illuminating.

"THE ALPHABET
Divine Generation of Alphabets.c.Divine Generation of Alphabets;

Difficult as it may be to accept, as the old adage runs, seeing is believing: Appendix C shows how the geometric pattern known as the Seed of Life, ratcheted out to thirteen circles, forms the basis of the design which the Bock Saga uses, and it does indeed generate letters. (The poster size colour illustration, from which this is copied, makes this much more apparent).(not existing on this site)The Seed of Life and the Flower of Life designs have been found in Egypt, Celtic Ireland, Turkey, Tibet, and Greece. This generation of letters seems like a kind of magic, and belief in such magic, or the divine origin and character of writing, is ubiquitous, in all eras, among civilized as well as among "primitive" people. The Egyptians called Thoth "the scribe of the gods" and taught that he had given them their writing, which they called the "speech of the gods." Muslims believe that Allah himself created writing, and the Norse saga attributes the invention of the runes to Odin. Hellen, the founder of the Greeks, according to Cassiodorus, "delivered many things concerning the alphabet, describing its composition and virtues, in an exceedingly subtle narration; insomuch that the great importance of letters may be traced to the very beginning of things." The Hindus say that it was Brahma who gave them Sanskrit, which is based on Devanagari, meaning "holy script." [Veta] means to know in Rot, [gana] (naga backwards) is script, the same as Japanese hiragana, so the Vedas are the "knowledge of the Aser."
The Bock Saga then is not at all unique in its claim to be the original source of language or writing; almost all ancient nations had a tradition that they once possessed sacred writings in a long lost language, the Mayans, Japanese and Runic users amongst them. The "urrunen" theory runs parallel to the Saga in that it holds that it is the source of all Mediterranean alphabets, including Phoenician. Studies of the Norse peoples' Runic characters and Celtic symbols have found that the symbols appear to have served sacred and mystical purposes for hundreds of years before there is any evidence of their being used for written language. They are said to have magic powers, and this is supported by the linguistic evidence of the Gothic word runa, meaning secrecy, or mystery. Parallel to this is the oral nature of the Saga - remember, only the Bock family was supposedly cognizant of its origins. In Hebrew rune means a song, or to sing, and the ancient Jews maintained that their Cabala was revealed by God to Moses and was transmitted verbally, it being too sacred to be written. Similarly the Brahmins are not permitted to recite, but only to sing the Vedas. As magic is simply that which is not understood, comprehension of any process removes its numinosity. Could it be that the Bock Saga is a preservation of some form of mathematical or geometrical knowledge that has been lost, but that appeared so spectacular to early mankind that it appeared to be magical?
Certainly, the many Garden of Eden myths found around the world "see mankind, over recent millennia, as having degenerated from root-races and cultures of great spiritual and technological development, which flowered in the Golden Age of antiquity, and were destroyed to be reborn (perhaps many times) in aeons more distant than the limitations of today's science would have us believe." Today, in Japan, there is a Shinto priest called Yoshimi Takeuchi who claims that his family has been the guardian of the Golden Dragon Shrine for over four thousand years. Among the shrine's sacred treasures are various artifacts, allegedly given by the Imperial court, including pottery believed to be 20,000 years old, and documents which he claims: "will prove that the origins of the five races of the world are one and the same." Also he says there are stones, the original tablets of Moses' Ten Commandments, which contain ancient Japanese writings remarkable similar to that of Hebrew. In fact, according to Takeuchi, ancient emperors developed over two hundred sets of characters which are said to be the basis for the ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, Sanskrit and Hebrew languages."



« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 11:05:57 am by rockessence » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007, 01:26:45 pm »

I don't know that there are any similarities between Iberian and Glozel, but there certainly are between Glozel (and Azilian) and Phoenician:



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Elric
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2007, 04:02:02 pm »

Dear Elric; Cheesy
Thank you to bring those into the forum.I couldnt bring the pictures, I dont know how to..

Do you think Glozel language or alphabet related with the runic alpahabet?? Georgeos Diaz said The finding in taratessos language is auniqiue language.Is this also??Where can we ask??


You are welcome, Julia, that was some very good information you found for us and it needed to be seen. I think that Glozel, Iberian and Phoenician do have some resemblance.  I'll dig up a Runic alphabet later and see if we can make some comparisons.

By the way, if you are interested in learning how to post pictures, there is a topic at the top of the forum that I have just added some easy to follow directions, "How to Post Pictures."

Why not give it a try? I would be happy to help with any questions.
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Elric
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 04:09:07 pm »

Quote
Elric,

From your link:

" Safaitic, Lihyanite are languages from old Arab tribes, in south Arabian desert; since they were relatively isolated from other cultures, their languages had few evolutions, which is of interest: they remain close to their original language

   Surprisingly, in Colorado, petroglyphs have been found who match old Arabian alphabet 500 BC more than 90% :

(picture--see link)

Hi Rockessence,

Which link has the pictures of these Colorado hieroglyphs?

This one appears to be related to the alphabet and Finnish:

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