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Virginia Tech Rampage

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Author Topic: Virginia Tech Rampage  (Read 264 times)
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 10:57:57 am »

Hi Volitzer, I have heard that his writings are on, but haven't had the chance yet to read them myself.
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"Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances."

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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 10:59:00 am »

Police: Cho taken to mental health center in 2005
POSTED: 11:15 a.m. EDT, April 18, 2007
Story Highlights
NEW: Police say suspect referred to counselor after female students complained
Student's behavior, poetry so intimidating, teacher says she had him removed
Police stand by decision not to lock down campus after first shootings
Former roommates say Cho Seung-Hui stalked women, spoke of suicide

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Cho Seung-Hui was referred to a mental health facility in 2005 after officers responded to accusations he was suicidal and having inappropriate contact with female students, police said Wednesday.
Police first investigated Cho in November 2005 after a student complained about him calling her and contacting her in person, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.
"The student declined to press charges and referred to Cho's contact with her as annoying," Flinchum said of the November investigation.
Police investigated him again the following month when a female student complained about instant messages Cho sent her, Flinchum said. After police spoke to Cho, they received a call from a student concerned that he might be suicidal.
After speaking with Cho "at length," the officers asked him to see a counselor, and he agreed to be evaluated by Access, an independent mental health facility in the area, the chief said.
"A temporary detention order was obtained and he was taken to a mental health facility" on December 13, 2005, he said.
As tales of Cho's worrisome behavior continued to surface Wednesday, a renowned poet and author who taught the 23-year-old suspected gunman called the notion that he was troubled "crap" and said he was downright "mean."
Nikki Giovanni was in San Francisco, California, getting ready to fly home to Blacksburg when she heard the news Monday that 32 students were killed in separate shooting incidents on the Virginia Tech campus.
"I knew when it happened that that's probably who it was," Giovanni said, referring to her former pupil. "I would have been shocked if it wasn't."
Though Giovanni, another professor, Cho's former roommates and a classmate and police all recall Cho behaving in a disturbing manner, there was nothing criminal about his demeanor. (Classmates called Cho "question mark kid")
The university and its police have been the target of criticism from students who felt they weren't adequately warned about Cho -- even after two people were killed in a dormitory early Monday morning.
Though police have linked a gun used in Norris Hall -- where 31 people, including Cho, died -- they have yet to say he is officially accused of the first shootings.
The university has defended its response to the first shooting, which police were reportedly still investigating when gunshots erupted in Norris Hall -- more than two hours after police were called to the dorm.
Flinchum said Wednesday that details gleaned from the investigation at the West Ambler Johnston dorm led to a decision among university officials and police that the campus did not need to be locked down.
"There is a lot of details we were providing to the administration and a decision was made based on that information," the chief said.
University President Charles Steger has said police believed the incident was "a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide" that was contained to one dorm room.
Police cordoned off the 895-student dorm and all residents were told about the shooting as police looked for witnesses, Steger said.
"I don't think anyone could have predicted that another event was going to take place two hours later," Steger said.

'Something mean about this boy'
Though there was nothing criminal about Cho's behavior -- he easily passed a background check, according to the store owner who sold him one of the guns -- his actions did concern some students and faculty members. (Watch dealer recount selling weapon to Cho javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2007/04/18/griffin.cho.gun.cnn','2009/04/17'); javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2007/04/18/griffin.cho.gun.cnn','2009/04/17')Wink
Cho's poetry was so intimidating -- and his behavior so menacing -- that Giovanni had him removed from her class in the fall of 2005, she said. Giovanni said the final straw came when two of her students quit attending her poetry sessions because of Cho.
"I was trying to find out, what am I doing wrong here?" Giovanni recalled thinking, but the students came to her during her office hours and explained, "He's taking photographs of us. We don't know what he's doing."
Giovanni went to the department's then-chairwoman, Lucinda Roy, and told her she wanted Cho out of her class, and Roy obliged.
"I was willing to resign before I was going to continue with him," Giovanni said. "There was something mean about this boy."
Giovanni said she's taught her share of oddballs in the past, but there was something malicious about Cho's behavior.
"I know we're talking about a troubled youngster and crap like that, but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings; troubled youngsters drink and drive," she said. "I've taught troubled youngsters. I've taught crazy people. It was the meanness that bothered me. It was a, really, mean streak."
Giovanni's account came Wednesday as Roy and Cho's former roommates shared stories about the resident alien from South Korea now accused of exacting the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.
Roy, who taught Cho one-on-one after removing him from Giovanni's class, recalled Cho exhibiting a palpable anger and secretly taking photographs of other students while holding the camera under his desk.
His writings were so disturbing, she said, that she went to the police and university administrators for help.
"The threats seemed to be underneath the surface," she said. "They were not explicit and that was the difficulty the police had."
Ian McFarlane, who had class with Cho, said two plays written by Cho were so "twisted" that McFarlane and other students openly pondered "whether he could be a school shooter." (Read MacFarlane's blog and the two plays )
Cho's roommates, who asked to be identified only as Andy and John, had similar accounts. Andy recalled police coming to the dormitory to investigate Cho's involvement with a female students and when Andy told police that Cho had spoken of suicide, "they took him away to the counseling center for a night or two."
In retrospect, Cho had exhibited "big warning signs," Andy said. But he was so quiet, the roommate said, "he was just like a shadow."

Authorities are still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in planning or executing Monday's rampage.
Cho, who moved to the United States at age 8, lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said.
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," said Larry Hincker, associate vice president for university relations.
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 11:17:17 am »

 Embarrassed Cheesy
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2007, 04:42:40 pm »

For those of you wondering about the campus lockdown or notification things, I have a couple comments.

First of all, do you have any idea how many buildings you are talking about locking down?  This isn't a high school with one or two buildings but a large public University.  I pulled out the map of campus for the University of Illinois (here in town) and started counting the buildings listed in the key.  I stopped counting at 100.  These are all within a few blocks of the quad and the residence halls.  While I think VT is smaller the UIUC...about half the size...I imagine their campus contains a large number of buildings as well.

Second, Shutting down all the campus buildings would not have reached the majority of the students.  Once again, this isn't high school.  The kids don't leave for school at 8 and stay there all day.  They come and go for individual classes.  So if you shut down all the buildings at 7:50 or 8:00  you still have thousands of kids walking around the quad...probably wondering why the doors are all shut.  Why?  Because most students don't live in University owned buildings but rather private apartments.  While the first shooting was going down these kids were grabbing their books and heading for the door to walk to their 8 or 9 am classes.  For the most part, they wouldn't have turned on their computer, a radio, or a TV.

And yes, I mean walk.  The only ones who drive to school in college are the minority who commute from relatively local locations.

Third, you have to remember that they thought the first shooting was a boyfriend girlfriend issue, not some psycho going postal.  In fact, they had information from the initial victim's roommate that pointed to the victim's boyfriend as the shooter.  I believe I read that they were questioning him when the second incident started.  So they were focused on a particular individual with a particular motive and they had him in hand.

Fourth, the second shooting started two hours later.  So lets pretend they lock down the campus at 8:00.  Great.  How long do you keep it locked down?  If you don't know where or who the shooter is, at what point do you decide it's safe to let kids out of their classrooms?  One hour?  Two hours? Ten?  It only makes sense to lock a facility down to serch it.  If they had a known suspect they could search for and some inkling of where to look it might make sense.  Otherwise, lock down...and do what?

On another note....
It's important to lay responsibility in the correct place.  It's not the fault of the university, teachers, counselors or the shooter's peers.  The responsibility lies solely with the shooter.
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2007, 05:52:52 pm »

author=TomB link=topic=849.msg9202#msg9202 date=1176932560]
On another note....
It's important to lay responsibility in the correct place.  It's not the fault of the university, teachers, counselors or the shooter's peers.  The responsibility lies solely with the shooter.

The University was negligent as were the police and campus security and most likely the psychology department.  This will be shown in numerous lawsuits against the university.

The University president,  campus security head and police involved should be fired immediately and proper security measures installed immediately.

There should be an audible warning system as well as instant mass text messaging and e-mail notification in such a terrorist event.

At the very least students should have been warned immediately that there had been a double murder on campus and the shooter was at large.

ALL Classes should have been cancelled immediately and students and faculty warned to find a safe place until the investigation was over.

Period !!!!!!!!!

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