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News: Plato's Atlantis: Fact, Fiction or Prophecy?
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Sunken Continents versus Continental Drift

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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 11:22:22 pm »


Figure 12. Areas in the Atlantic Ocean for which past subsidence has been established. Subsided areas are shaded. (Reprinted with permission from Dillon [14]. Copyright by the AAPG, whose permission is required for further use.)

    Subaerial deposits have been found in many parts of the midocean ridge system, indicating that it was shallow or partially emergent in Cretaceous to Early Tertiary time. Blavatsky says that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge formed part of an Atlantic continent. She writes:


    Lemuria, which served as the cradle of the Third Root-Race, not only embraced a vast area in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, but extended in the shape of a horse-shoe past Madagascar, round 'South Africa' (then a mere fragment in process of formation), through the Atlantic up to Norway. The great English fresh water deposit called the Wealden -- which every geologist regards as the mouth of a former great river -- is the bed of the main stream which drained northern Lemuria in the Secondary Age. The former reality of this river is a fact of science -- will its votaries acknowledge the necessity of accepting the Secondary-age Northern Lemuria, which their data demand? Professor Berthold Seeman not only accepted the reality of such a mighty continent, but regarded Australia and Europe as formerly portions of one continent -- thus corroborating the whole 'horse-shoe' doctrine already enunciated. No more striking confirmation of our position could be given, than the fact that the ELEVATED RIDGE in the Atlantic basin, 9,000 feet in height, which runs for some two or three thousand miles southwards from a point near the British Islands, first slopes towards South America, then shifts almost at right angles to proceed in a SOUTH-EASTERLY line toward the African coast, whence it runs on southward to Tristan d'Acunha [da Cunha]. This ridge is a remnant of an Atlantic continent, and, could it be traced further, would establish the reality of a submarine horse-shoed junction with a former continent in the Indian Ocean.[15]
Since this was written (in 1888), ocean exploration has confirmed that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge does indeed continue around South Africa and into the Indian Ocean.
    Blavatsky reported that in the ocean depths around the Azores the ribs of a once massive piece of land had been discovered, and quoted the following from Scientific American: 'The inequalities, the mountains and valleys of its surface could never have been produced in accordance with any known laws from the deposition of sediment or by submarine elevation; but, on the contrary, must have been carved by agencies acting above the water-level.' She adds that at one time necks of land probably existed knitting Atlantis to South America somewhere above the mouth of the Amazon, to Africa near Cape Verde, and to Spain [16].
    After surveying the extensive evidence for large continental land areas in the present oceans in the distant past, J.M. Dickins, D.R. Choi and A.N. Yeates concluded:


We are surprised and concerned for the objectivity and honesty of science that such data can be overlooked or ignored. . . . There is a vast need for future Ocean Drilling Program initiatives to drill below the base of the basaltic ocean floor crust to confirm the real composition of what is currently designated oceanic crust.[17]


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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 11:22:43 pm »

As stated in theosophical literature, 'hidden deep in the unfathomed ocean beds' there may be 'other, far older continents whose strata have never been geologically explored' [18].
    Some islands have apparently sunk as recently as late Pleistocene time. For instance, M. Ewing reported prehistoric beach sand in two deep-sea core samples brought up from depths of 3 and 5.5 km on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, over 1000 km from the coast. In one core there were two layers of sand which were dated, on the basis of sedimentation rates, at 20,000-100,000 years and 225,000-325,000 years [19]. R.W. Kolbe reported finds of numerous freshwater diatoms in several cores on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, over 900 km from the coast of Equatorial West Africa. He stated that one possible explanation is that the areas concerned were islands 10-12,000 years ago, and the diatoms were deposited in lake sediments which later sank beneath 3 km of seawater. He argued that this was far more plausible than the theory that turbidity currents had carried the diatoms 930 km along the sea bottom then upwards more than 1000 km to deposit them on top of a submarine hill [20]. The Atlantis seamount, located at 37°N on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, has a flat top at a depth of about 180 fathoms, covered with cobbles or current-rippled sand. About a ton of limestone cobbles was dredged from its summit, one of which gave a radiocarbon age of 12,000 +/- 900 years. According to B.C. Heezen and his colleagues, the limestone was probably lithified above water, and the seamount may therefore have been an island within the past 12,000 years [21].
    According to modern theosophy, Poseidonis -- Plato's 'Atlantis' -- was an island about the size of Ireland, situated in the Atlantic Ocean opposite the strait of Gibraltar, and sank in a major cataclysm in 9565 BC [22]. Former exploration geologist Christian O'Brien believes that Poseidonis was a large mid-Atlantic ridge island centred on the Azores [23]. By contouring the seabed, he found that the Azores were separated and surrounded by a net of submarine valleys that had all the hallmarks of having once been river valleys on the surface. He concluded that the island had originally measured 720 km across from east to west, and 480 km from north to south, with high mountain ranges rising over 3660 metres above sea level. Before or during its submergence, it tilted by about 0.4° with the result that the south coast sank about 3355 metres but the north coast only some 1830 metres. Only the mountain peaks remained above the waters, and now form the ten islands of the Azores. O'Brien thinks the island could have sunk within a period of a few years or even months, and points out that six areas of hot spring fields (associated with volcanic disturbances) are known in the mid-Atlantic ridge area, and four of them lie in the Kane-Atlantis area close to the Azores. Further surveys and core samples are required to test O'Brien's hypothesis.

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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 11:23:34 pm »


Figure 13. Christian O'Brien's reconstruction of Poseidonis.



Conclusion

When plate tectonics -- the reigning paradigm in the earth sciences -- was first elaborated in the 1960s, less than 0.0001% of the deep ocean had been explored and less than 20% of the land area had been mapped in meaningful detail. Even by the mid-1990s, only about 3 to 5% of the deep ocean basins had been explored in any kind of detail, and not much more than 25 to 30% of the land area could be said to be truly known. Scientific understanding of the earth's surface features is clearly still in its infancy, to say nothing of the earth's interior.
    V.V. Beloussov held that plate tectonics was a premature generalization of still very inadequate data on the structure of the ocean floor, and had proven to be far removed from geological reality. He wrote:


It is . . . quite understandable that attempts to employ this conception to explain concrete structural situations in a local rather than a global scale lead to increasingly complicated schemes in which it is suggested that local axes of spreading develop here and there, that they shift their position, die out, and reappear, that the rate of spreading alters repeatedly and often ceases altogether, and that lithospheric plates are broken up into an even greater number of secondary and tertiary plates. All these schemes are characterised by a complete absence of logic, and of patterns of any kind. The impression is given that certain rules of the game have been invented, and that the aim is to fit reality into these rules somehow or other. (Beloussov, 1980, p. 303)
    Plate tectonics certainly faces some overwhelming problems. Far from being a simple, elegant, all-embracing global theory, it is confronted with a multitude of observational anomalies, and has had to be patched up with a complex variety of ad-hoc modifications and auxiliary hypotheses. The existence of deep continental roots and the absence of a continuous, global asthenosphere to 'lubricate' plate motions, have rendered the classical model of plate movements untenable. There is no consensus on the thickness of the 'plates' and no certainty as to the forces responsible for their supposed movement. The hypotheses of large-scale continental drift, seafloor spreading and subduction, and the relative youth of the oceanic crust are contradicted by a considerable volume of data. Evidence for substantial vertical crustal movements and for significant amounts of submerged continental crust in the present-day oceans poses another major challenge to plate tectonics. Such evidence provides increasing confirmation of the periodic alternation of land and sea taught by theosophy.

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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 11:24:10 pm »

References
Introduction

[1] Paul D. Lowman, in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, p. 3.
[2] D. McGeary & C.C. Plummer, Physical Geology: earth revealed, WCB, McGraw-Hill, 3rd ed, 1998, p. 97.
[3] V.A. Saull, 'Wanted: alternatives to plate tectonics', Geology, vol. 14, 1986, p. 536.

Plate tectonics -- a failed revolution
[1] N.I. Pavlenkova, in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 1, p. 78.
[2] S.P. Grand, Journal of Geophysical Research, vol. 92, 1987, pp. 14065-14090.
[3] E.C. Bullard et al., Royal Society of London Philosophical Transactions, Series A, vol. 258, 1965, pp. 41-51.
[4] H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Theos. Univ. Press, 1977 (1888), 2:791.
[5] Meyerhoff et al., 1996b, p. 3.
[6] C.J. Smiley, 'Paleofloras, faunas, and continental drift: some problem areas', in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, pp. 241-257.
[7] J.W. Gregory, 'The plan of the earth and its causes', The Geographical Journal, vol. 13, 1899, pp. 225-250.
[8] A. Spilhaus, 'Geo-art: plate tectonics and Platonic solids', American Geophysical Union Transactions, vol. 56, 1975, pp. 52-57.
[9] N.C. Smoot & A.A. Meyerhoff, 'Tectonic fabric of the Atlantic Ocean floor: speculation vs. reality', Journal of Petroleum Geology, vol. 18, 1995, pp. 207-222.
[10] H. Benioff, 'Orogenesis and deep crustal structure -- additional evidence from seismology', Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 65, 1954, pp. 385-400.
[11] D.W. Scholl & M.S. Marlow, in: Kahle, 1974, p. 268.

Emergence and submergence
[1] The Secret Doctrine, 2:787fn.
[2] Ibid., 2:783.
[3] C.D. Ollier, 'Mountains', in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 2, pp. 211-236.
[4] H.C. Sheth, 'Flood basalts and large igneous provinces from deep mantle plumes: fact, fiction, and fallacy', Tectonophysics, vol. 311, 1999, pp. 1-29.
[5] See Meyerhoff et al., 1996a.
[6] The Secret Doctrine, 2:252.
[7] T.H. Van Andel, New Views on an Old Planet: a history of global change (2nd ed.), Cambridge Univ. Press, 1994, p. 170.
[8] A. Hallam, 'Secular changes in marine inundation of USSR and North America through the Phanerozoic', Nature, vol. 269, 1977, pp. 769-772.
[9] C.G.A. Harrison et al., 'Continental hypsography', Tectonics, vol. 2, 1983, pp. 357-377.
[10] V.V. Orlenok, 'The evolution of ocean basins during Cenozoic time', Journal of Petroleum Geology, vol. 9, 1986, pp. 207-216.
[11] E.M. Ruditch, 'The world ocean without spreading', in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 2, pp. 343-395.
[12] See Theosophy and the Seven Continents, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/continents.htm.
[13] J.M. Dickins, 'What is Pangaea?', in: A.F. Embry, B. Beauchamp & D.G. Glass, Pangea: Global environments and resources, Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists, Memoir 17, 1994, pp. 67-80.
[14] L.S. Dillon, 'Neovolcanism: a proposed replacement for the concepts of plate tectonics and continental drift', in: Kahle, 1974, pp. 167-239.
[15] The Secret Doctrine, 2:333.
[16] Ibid., 2:793.
[17] J.M. Dickins, D.R. Choi & A.N. Yeates, 'Past distribution of oceans and continents', in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, pp. 193-199 (p. 198).
[18] A.T. Barker (comp.), The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett, Theos. Univ. Press, 2nd ed., 1926, p. 151; The Secret Doctrine, 2:332-3.
[19] M. Ewing, 'New discoveries on the mid-Atlantic ridge', National Geographic Magazine, vol. xcvi (Nov.), 1949, pp. 611-640; Corliss, 1990, p. 245.
[20] R.W. Kolbe, 'Fresh-water diatoms from Atlantic deep-sea sediments', Science, vol. 126, 1957, pp. 1053-1056; R.W. Kolbe, 'Turbidity currents and displaced fresh-water diatoms', Science, vol. 127, 1958, pp. 1504-1505; Corliss, 1989, pp. 32-33.
[21] B.C. Heezen, M. Ewing, D.B. Ericson & C.R. Bentley, 'Flat-topped Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor Seamounts' (Abstract), Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 65, 1954, p. 1261; Corliss, 1988, p. 88.
[22] The Mahatma Letters, pp. 151, 155.
[23] Christian & Barbara Joy O'Brien, The Shining Ones, Kemble, Cirencester: Dianthus Publishing, 2001, pp. 435-42; 'Survey of Atlantis', http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html.

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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2008, 11:24:54 pm »

Select bibliography
Barto-Kyriakidis, A. (Ed.), 1990. Critical Aspects of the Plate Tectonics Theory. Athens: Theophrastus Publications. (Especially articles by: Ahmad, Beloussov, Cebull & Shurbet, Chekunov et al., Choi et al., Kiskyras, Luts, Ollier, Pavlenkova, Ruditch, Saxena & Gupta, Shapiro, Udintsev et al.)

Beloussov, V.V., 1980. Geotectonics. Moscow: Mir.

Chatterjee, S. & Hotton, N., III (eds.), 1992. New Concepts in Global Tectonics. Lubbock, TX: Texas Tech University Press. (Especially articles by: Anfiloff, Agocs et al., Beloussov, Cebull & Shurbet, Choi et al., Dickins et al., Grant, Kashfi, Lowman, Meyerhoff et al., Smiley.)

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1988. Carolina Bays, Mima Mounds, Submarine Canyons & Other Topographical Phenomena. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1989. Anomalies in Geology: physical, chemical, biological. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1990. Neglected Geological Anomalies. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Dickins, J.M. & Choi, D.R. (Eds.). New Concepts in Global Tectonics Newsletter.

Jeffreys, H., 1976. The Earth: its origin, history and physical constitution (6th ed.). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Kahle, C.F. (Ed.), 1974. Plate Tectonics -- Assessments and Reassessments (Memoir 23). Tulsa, OK: American Association of Petroleum Geologists. (Especially articles by Beloussov, Dillon, A.A. & H.A. Meyerhoff, Jeffreys, Khudoley, Maxwell, Smiley, Teichert.)

Meyerhoff, A.A. & Meyerhoff, H.A., 1974. Tests of plate tectonics. In: Kahle, 1974, pp. 43-145.

Meyerhoff, A.A., Taner, I., Morris, A.E.L., Agocs, W.B., Kaymen-Kaye, M., Bhat, M.I., Smoot, N.C. & Choi, D.R., 1996a. Surge Tectonics: a new hypothesis of global geodynamics (D. Meyerhoff Hull, Ed.). Dordrecht: Kluwer.

Meyerhoff, A.A., Boucot, A.J., Meyerhoff Hull, D. & Dickins, J.M., 1996b. Phanerozoic Faunal & Floral Realms of the Earth (Memoir 189). Boulder, CO: Geological Society of America.

Storetvedt, K.M., 1997. Our Evolving Planet: earth history in new perspective. Bergen, Norway: Alma Mater.





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December 2000



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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 03:40:57 pm »

Dear Carolyn Silver,



I have read "en passant" your huge posts, good job. There lies a terrific amount of evidence of Atlantis "sinking". Since i don't believe Continents can Sink i will solely stick with Continental drift.

Can you deny that there is a clear Continental occlusion between Africa and America, Europe and the Island of Greenland?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/sofiakovsky/R_qXkvDFtwI/AAAAAAAAANU/kIIX8iUDGY0/AAAA%20oclusion.jpg?imgmax=400

The majority of the maps i saw relating to this subject ought to be wrong! because there is a piece missing in the puzzle and that is Greenland. It usually is portrayed far up North when actually it started down South as the image above attests.

The Island is not as small as we can depict in normal maps, because due to the roundness of the Earth, Greenland apparently changes its size and becomes a very small Island, but in fact has 2 Million km2 and was even bigger as its Continental plate undoubtedly shows.

And that is why there is always a gap in the Atlantic when it comes to "join" Continental pieces together, like in a map you previously have shown.

keep up the good work

with regards,

Mario Dantas
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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 04:57:11 pm »






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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2008, 09:40:28 pm »

Tanks!, Mario! 

There IS a piece missing between Europe and North America and everytime they do that jigsaw where they try and put the continents together, it is pretty clear!

Atlantis DIDN'T have to be a continent!

So either it was a piece that slid north like Greenland, or it was a piece that just plain SUNK.  During the 1950s, they discovered a sunken block of continent in the Mid Atlantic, so my money would be put on "sunk."

Carolyn
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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2008, 06:24:25 pm »

Dear Carolyn Silver,

Quote

So either it was a piece that slid north like Greenland, or it was a piece that just plain SUNK.  During the 1950s, they discovered a sunken block of continent in the Mid Atlantic, so my money would be put on "sunk."

One of the main questions is where did the equivalent amount of magma go? If a cup is full and you throw a stone in it, the stone will sink but some of the liquid will drop out of the cup, likewise in the case of Atlantis i again ask where would the exceeding matter go? There would have to be quite substantial evidences , as a matter of fact equally substantial to the Volume of the large Island proving that!

On the contrary it is "contra natura" that such thing ever happened.

Regards,
M
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Qoais
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2008, 08:54:41 pm »

If you place a cup full of water, into a basin partially filled with water, and then drop a rock into the cup, where does the overflow go?  Into the basin beneath it of course.  How much of a rise in the water level of the basin occurred when the rock was dropped into the cup?  Was it even noticeable?

Considering the size of the world ocean, it wouldn't effect the water level to any noticeable degree if a smallish continent sunk into it.  Say for instance, Australia sunk into the ocean.  Would we notice a major increase in water levels of the world ocean?  Not likely because of it's size.  Some scientist that makes a habit of measuring water levels could likely tell us just how much of an increase was caused, but it wouldn't be anything major.
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Logic rules.

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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2008, 09:44:27 pm »

I agree Qoais.  It would be more like dropping a pearl in a glass of water.  You probably wouldn't notice any difference at all.
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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2008, 09:45:06 pm »

If a cup is full and you throw a stone in it, the stone will sink but some of the liquid will drop out of the cup, likewise in the case of Atlantis i again ask where would the exceeding matter go?

That's a good question, however, it is not exactly what we should be talking about.  Imagine, the stone not being thrown at the cup but exploding out of it!

The clues are all around us when we talk about the Mid Atlantic Ridge, which is, in essence, a mountain ridge exploding up towards the surface throught the build up of undersea magma, from underwater volcanoes. Point is, Atlantis was probably created, and destroyed through the complimentary processes of tectonic uplift and tectonic depression.

Lava covers the floor of the Atlantic and there have been many instances of the ocean spitting up and swallowing islands again and again.  If something actually struck the MAR at some point (as Otto Muck theorized), it wouldn't just smash the substance, it would set off a chain reaction of volcanic reactions that the land actually would sink.  All anyone has to do is investigate the craters of Santorini and Krakatoa to see how a volcanic reaction can blow out the center of an island.
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Qoais
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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2008, 09:59:56 pm »

So - the matter blows out and falls back into the ocean as particles of what it once was.
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2008, 12:12:57 am »

That's a great way to put it, Qoas, and it would also explain what we have been seeing in the ocean - such as the Russia pictures of the Ampere Seamounts, fragments of what look to be shattered walls and steps lying over the ocean floor.  We wouldn't have a "neat" looking array of Greek temples like you see in Jules Verne, only fragments.
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Qoais
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2008, 05:19:21 pm »

Well where else would it go, considering it would have to fall back down due to gravity.  It would have to be one hell of a "thrust" factor to send any debris into orbit.
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