Church & State: the Rise of Religious Zealotry

[Jade Hellene]

Church and State

There is a very good reason for the separation of church and state, time and again we see it in examples throughout history.

-The Romans wiped out the Druids.
-Nero burned the human beings as torchlights, why? Because they were Christians.
-Both the Romans and Muslims had a hand in the destruction of the Library of Alexandria and Plato's Academy. Why? Because they both held pagan knowledge. How much knowledge is ever lost to us?
-During the Inquisition, Christians and tortured and killed thousands after accusing them of being witches.
-When the Crusaders first took back Jerusalem, they killed every man, woman and child they found living in the city. Why? Because they were Muslims.
-Joan of Arc, accused of being a witch, killed because she heard voices.
-the Salem Witch Trials?
-the Holocaust?
-Wars in the Middle East?
-9/11?

All perpetuated by religious zealots who believed they were doing right, believed they were doing God's work, and ended up doing evil instead.

Separation of church and state may not end all ills. It does, however prevent nutty people from using the ultimate excuse as sanctuary for their heinous acts.

We must always beware the religious zealot, my friends, because there lies the path to madness. Because none of us believe like everyone happens to believem, we should always be careful to safeguard the rights of the minorities. Always beware the words "God told me to do it," because a person that actually believe he's doing God's work, ends up doing works of evil more often than not.

[Jade Hellene]

From the article posted by Rajeesh in the other forum:


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

Published on Friday, October 7, 2005 by The Independent

Bush: God Told Me to Invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'

by Rupert Cornwell

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.
The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.
The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."
And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."
Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.
From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.
He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.
"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."
Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.
The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

[Jade Hellene]

We have our current situation,
we have our past history to inform us.

Religious zealots should not be permitted to hold office, let alone the highest office in all the land!

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000478#000000

[Bianca]

I fully agree with you, Jade.  I said as much after I posted THE AGE OF REASON.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if everybody prayed in "their own closet", as they were comanded to do

in the New Testament.  But, then these people only say they are Christians......


BTW, can you imagine how many hungry children could be fed by the price of one of those

SUPER CHURCHES or how many children could receive much needed MEDICAL CARE?


DISGUSTING!!!


Love and Peace,
b

[KTCat]

In all fairness, I hope you realize that there are also millions of Christians who question Mr. Bush and his "supposed messages for God" as much as you do. In fact, the first people who came to America on the Mayflower were extremely religious people, but they called themselves "Separatists" because in spite of their belief in Christian principals, they believed adamently in the seperation of Church and State. Those Separatists came to America at a time when the Church of England weilded the same power over Britain that the Vatican had previously held over most of Europe. This country was literally built by Christians who believed in the division between Church and State. Our founding fathers were Christians who believed in the seperation of Church and State. Our Constitution was written by Christians who believed in the seperation of Church and State.

There are millions and millions of Christians in this country today who believe in the Seperation of Church and State, and a great many  of them look at Bush with the same mistrust you do. In fact, many Christians wonder just which so called "god" Bush is listening to...

[Jade Hellene]

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[Jade Hellene]

I fully agree with you, Jade.  I said as much after I posted THE AGE OF REASON.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if everybody prayed in "their own closet", as they were comanded to do

in the New Testament.  But, then these people only say they are Christians......


BTW, can you imagine how many hungry children could be fed by the price of one of those

SUPER CHURCHES or how many children could receive much needed MEDICAL CARE?


DISGUSTING!!!


Love and Peace,
b

Yes, I don't quite understand the super-churches either. They steal from the poor and then build giant facitilities with swimming pools and basketball courts.

Did you hear what happened to Reverend Ted Haggerd, head of one of those super churches?  Turns out he was a homosexual meth addict, one of many, I am sure in the conservative movement.

Time was it used to be considered "bad form" to talk too openly about one's faith.  It is a shame that we don't have that again.

[Jade Hellene]

In all fairness, I hope you realize that there are also millions of Christians who question Mr. Bush and his "supposed messages for God" as much as you do. In fact, the first people who came to America on the Mayflower were extremely religious people, but they called themselves "Separatists" because in spite of their belief in Christian principals, they believed adamently in the seperation of Church and State. Those Separatists came to America at a time when the Church of England weilded the same power over Britain that the Vatican had previously held over most of Europe. This country was literally built by Christians who believed in the division between Church and State. Our founding fathers were Christians who believed in the seperation of Church and State. Our Constitution was written by Christians who believed in the seperation of Church and State.

There are millions and millions of Christians in this country today who believe in the Seperation of Church and State, and a great many  of them look at Bush with the same mistrust you do. In fact, many Christians wonder just which so called "god" Bush is listening to...

That is true, Cat, but the divisions between Christians have aren't just with Bush, but the entire evangelical movement.  The evangelicals seem to believe that being against gay marriage and abortion should be their top two priorities.  Now, you may or may not share their opinion, but Christ has nothing to say about either one so where are they taking their cues from?

The Old Testament (Leviticus) mentions gays, but to my knowledge, it says nothing about abortion.

These are, for the most part, matters that offend evangelicals personally, with no scriptural basis for them.  Christ actually talked more about social justice, helping the poor, and the rich mega-churches seem to care less about that, or even very few of the children they think should all be born.

[Bianca]

Jade,

I am sickened by these so-called religious Xians, so much so that I gag every time the subject comes
up.

But, just for the heck of it, see if you can track some of the art in Rev. Taggart's church.  Certainly
GREAT art, but if his parishoners didn't see what he was, they got what they deserved......

I am a firm believer in reincarnation, Jade.  It is my fervent hope that, when I do come back, the
three Abramic religions will be nothing but a bad memory.  The blood spilled in the name of their
god is appalling, not to mention all the other atrocities that have been committed by them in his
name......

Love and Peace,
b

[KTCat]

Jade, I agree with you about the evangelical movement. I think it is invasive, and denies all people the right to express their own sprituality and their own ability to connect to the Greater God and Goddess. I am a firm believer in a Mother/Father God concept, and think that most evangelicals who try to push their religion on others are in violaton of the "love thy neighbor as yourself" rule.

And I might add that I don't personally care about one's sexuality; both gays and lesbians have existed since day one. I do however, have a very serious problem with pedofiles, and an equally serious problem with the church that attempted to cover up their activities in that regard.

And Bianca? I think you are absolutely right about reincarnation, and there is considerable evidence that both Jews and early Christians accepted that premise. But those early Christians were murdered as "heretics" when they disagreed with the almighty Church of Rome; which was responsible for more murder and death than any religious organization known on earth. Sickening indeed!

[Volitzer]

What is really hypocritical and disturbing is that the whole Christian Conservative front for politics in this country is really doing the dirty work for a bunch of Molech worshipping Illuminati.

Type in Bohemian Grove into any search engine.

The religious fanatics are pawns in a much bigger game.

[Bianca]

                             

[KTCat]

Oh Bianca! You didn't! LOL! LOL! LOL!

[Volitzer]

 

[Bianca]

I couldn't resist, the Devil made me do it........

I was looking for something else and there it was, a perfect example of


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