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Atlantis in Nile Delta in Egypt

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julia
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« on: May 05, 2007, 09:21:13 am »


 


 

 

ARCHITECTONICS

From Cosmic Theories to Urban Development

Dr. Hossam Aboulfotouh

 
THE PLANNING MODEL OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN ATLANTIS

IN THE NILE DELTA

 

Proceedings of the II Conference on Conservation and Management  of Historic Sites, Faculty of Fine Arts, Minia University, 1-2 April, 2006, Minia.

 

 

Hossam M. K. Aboulfotouh, PhD[1].

 

1- Abstract.

2- Background.

3- Quantifying the values of the Egyptian and Greek measurement units.

4- The structural plan of the Nile Delta at the time of Atlantis's Kingdom.

5- Reading and writing Hieroglyphs, for any language.

6- The lesson of the story of Atlantis and its utopian model.

7- References.

 

 

1- Abstract:

 

The primary objective of this paper is to prove that the geographic domain of Atlantis kingdom is the Nile Delta; and the remaining lands of the banks of the river Nile, nearly till the current south border of Egypt, was part of this kingdom, forming the ancient Egypt at the time when Atlas was ruling it. Besides, the importance of this paper from both planning and developmental points of view has two folds. First, it shows the structural planning concept of the Nile Delta in approximately 5000 years ago, before its destruction by the great inundation. Second, it proves that the most ancient federal, decentralized, and democratic system of government was originated in Egypt, showing the distribution of agricultural lands and the local administration at that ancient time. Thirdly, it shows how destruction occurs in the waterfront regions of the earth. The methodology for proving that is based on analyzing the structural planning description that Plato mentioned in the dialogue of Critias. This will be supported by quantifying the value of the measurement unites that were used by Plato in his dialogue, namely: stadia and stadium, and drawing the map of the structural plan of the Nile delta at the time of Atlantis's kingdom. The measurement units will be used to check on to what extent the geographic descriptions that was mentioned by Plato matches the geography of the Nile and its settlements. That will be followed by proving that the names of the kings of Atlantis are mentioned in the kings' list of Abydos. Achieving this second task will be based on showing the method of pronouncing the hieroglyphic texts, particularly the names of kings and places, based on the presumption that Arabic was the tongue of the ancient Egyptian.

 

 

 

2- Background:

 

Atlantis is one of the research subjects that inspired many scholars of different fields. Despite that there are hundreds of articles, researches and books written about it, there are no common conclusion among the interested scholars that say precisely where it was, or was it true or false story. There are no studies on this subject that tackle it from planning and architectonic points of views; most of the researches are within the fields of philosophy, history and archaeology. In the domain of philosophy the researchers are studying the utopian model of Atlantis, and they investigate on whether the story is true or fiction; many are bias to conclude that it is a fictitious history, as stated by a commentator in the preface of Plato's dialogue that titled the Republic[2]. The researchers of the other two fields are searching on and trying to find any remaining physical evidence of Atlantis that would prove its ancient existence in places outside Egypt[3].   

 

Today, because none of the previous studies have provided the logical answer to the Atlantis's research questions, many intellectuals see those who are still talking about it as crazy people because they are searching on a needle in the bottom of the ocean. Those who undertook researches on the subject never thought that Atlantis' island might be part of Egypt, i.e., the Nile Delta, despite that its story were said by an Egyptian priest and it was a mud land. All of them were searching on it in somewhere else, in a salty environment. The difficulty of searching on Atlantis is that its issue is a multi-disciplinary subject, which lie within the domain of the architectonic sciences and that were understood by Plato, who learned them in Egypt. Without the architectonic background one can hardly observes the hidden message of the story that the Egyptian priest had explained it to Solon and accordingly Plato presented it in his two dialogues, i.e., how, when, and where, natural disasters vanish the great civilizations and end the utopian model that they succeeded to establish it and to maintain it for centuries.

 

The lesson that should be understood today, when taking into consideration that the waterfront regions of many parts of the world might be under the risk of destruction by the effect of major inundations, like the latter tsunami of the Indian ocean, what are the primary measures that nations should take  in order to protect their people, heritage, and knowledge. In Timaeus[4], the elder Egyptian priest of the city of Sais[5], when he started his talk to Solon, he described the Greeks as children because they know nothing about their history before the great deluge, contrary to the Egyptian who conserved the ancient knowledge of their grandfathers. 

 

In Critias[6], the elder priest made a distinction between the types and locations of destructions and when, or in what case, the knowledge could be conserved? We could understand from his talk that, the great destruction of the civilizations, which lived in the plains between mountainous regions, by the effect of earthquakes and volcanoes leaves no knowledge behind due to that the survivors are usually the illiterate settlers of the surrounding mountains. On the contrary, for the civilizations that live in mud regions, along the riverbanks, when destruction occurs by the effect of the great inundation from the sea it abolishes only the delta region of that river leaving literate survivors who settle in the cities of the upper lands behind the delta of that river and thus they conserve and maintain the knowledge of their civilization.               

 

Today, pursuing a research on Atlantis should neither be limited to tackle its issue from one point of view nor should it be relying only on Plato's single source. As mentioned above, the issue has been discussed hundreds of times, from different views, excluding the view of the architectonic field. The addition of this paper, therefore, is primarily architectonic, which endeavors to explain the basics of the architectonic ground that based on it any one could understand without any ambiguity, what was Plato speaking about, i.e., the relation between the perfect utopia and the perfect law of nature.

                         

Plato gave perfect description of the structural plan of Atlantis, and its hinter regions, in his dialogue that titled Critias.  The researchers, who believe that Atlantis was real world, thought that it was an island in the middle of the sea or ocean, and sunk about 9000 years ago. They pursue their analysis and drive their conclusions based on three words that mentioned in Plato's dialogue of Critias without understanding the true ancient Egyptian meanings of these words, which are: continent, Heracles, and year, i.e., Atlantis as a "continent" close to the pillars of "Heracles" and its time as 9000 "years" before Plato's days.

 

No doubt, Plato was speaking about Atlantis as fact and not a fiction. In Timaeus[7], Plato mentioned the prelude of the story of Atlantis as part of Timaeus's introduction. In that prelude we read the following as part of the talk of Critias to Socrates: "The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, (he meant Socrates 's proposed utopian model in the dialogue of the Republic) we will now transfer to the world of reality." Then Socrates replied to Critias and said: and what other, Critias, can we find that will be better than this, which is natural and suitable to the festival of the goddess, and has the very great advantage of being a fact and not a fiction? How or where shall we find another if we abandon this?"  Those who read only the dialogue Critias without recognizing the meanings of these two sentences in the prelude of the story in the dialogue of Timaeus would think wrongly that Plato was dealing with it as fiction.   

 

Similarly, those who read only the dialogue of Critias, they thought wrongly that the elder priest was speaking about a place outside Egypt. In Timaeus, the elder priest in his prelude of the story of the Atlanteans and their relation with the ancient Athenians, said to his Athenian guest Solon:  "If you compare these very laws with ours you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours as they were in the olden time; -- and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are distinct from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote themselves solely to military pursuits."  It is obvious that the elder priest was speaking about the Atlanteans as ancient Egyptians.

 

The dialogue of Caritas speaks about, and describes the lands of two ancient civilizations: the ancient Athenians and the ancient Atlanteans. This research focuses only on the land of the Atlanteans.

           

 

3- Quantifying the values of the Egyptian and Greek measurement units.

 

Geometry and measurement unites are coherent tools in the field of architecture and planning alike. Today, there are two systems of measurements: metric and foot; the centimeter divides the meter and the inch divides the foot.  In Herodotus's history[8], when he described the geography of Egypt, he mentioned other measurement units that were used by the ancient Egyptians in the fifth's century BC, e.g., schoines, parasange, furlonge, fathoms and foot. Add to them the stadia, stade, and stadium that Plato used when he described the planning of Atlantis. In other book[9] we read about the stadion, which is not different from stadium, but some like to quantify its value based on time, which is nonsense, because travel-distance generates the time and the opposite is wrong. The correct equivalent values of these measurement units, in metric, is still unknown because the architectonic sciences that form the bases for creating measurement unites were lost and the researchers never thought that both the ancient Egyptians and the ancient Athenians used the meter, the father of all measurement unites that were created by man.

 

The author of this paper studied the ancient Egyptian technique for creating any measurement unit based on the father of measurement and based on his researches on the law of numbers[10].  The meter as a natural measurement unites is the divider of the north–south distance between any two succeeding latitudes of the earth. Some may think wrongly that the meter is a new measurement since the French started to use it in early 19th century[11], and may think wrongly too that both the cubit and the foot are much older than it.

 

Based on the architectonic sciences of the ancient Egyptians, no one could be able to establish any measurement unit unless he knows the meter, which is the basic-unit for creating all measurement units that were or will be used by the mankind. The meter is the cosmic-reference for creating any other measurement unit. For example, in order to establish an inch and the cubit/foot from the meter you need to set a base number that forms the number of units (inches) in the produced cubit/foot. Suppose I repeat the base number 13 for three times to make a meter. This means the meter will be divided into 39 unites that we may call each an inch; accordingly the value of this specific kind of inch would equal 2.564 cm. and its cubit (or foot) that contains 13 inches would equal 33.333 cm, this is the King Solomon's foot.

 

The equation for establishing the inch that we use today, no matter how correct its value is, is based on the relation between the perimeter of a square and the circle inside it. If the perimeter of the squire is 28 unites the perimeter of the circle is 22 units which quantifies the value of pi, π = 4*(22/28). If the perimeter of the circle was a yard of 36 inches which is equivalent to the 22 units, the meter as the mean unity equals 24 unites. The meter is the domain of unity between 28 and 22; and the domain of unity means the frequency of number 24 equals one cycle/t, according to the law of music[12] of the number-systems the frequency of any number is the forth root of the sum of dividing that number by 24; thus, for number 24 the frequency is one, identifying the domain of unity in the whole spectrum of numbers.  The value of the generated inch could be calculated as follows:  (100*22)/(24*36)= 2.546cm. The current value of the English inch equals 2.54cm which is incorrect; due to that it has no cosmic reference. Along the history of mankind, there were many cubits, the number of units (inches) that each contains was: 5, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15, 19, 20, 21, etc.

 

The researchers in the filed of Egyptology thought that the ancient Egyptian used only the cubit. Some researchers studied the Egyptian cubits, without understanding the architectonic bases behind quantifying their lengths and subdividing them[13]. Many of these cubits were found in Egypt, measuring 45 and 52.5 cm, or 18 and 21 inch of 2.5 cm. (the inch of the base-number 4*10, i.e., 100/40=2.5). However, the cubit was subdivided into 28 units following the pyramidal system Cs28. The average width of each is 18.75 mm; however, actually for different measurement purposes, the first unit was 21.25 mm.(or 1+2/15 of the average, and was divided into two units each equals 1/2+1/15 of the average), the following 23 units were 18.50  mm each (or 24/25 of the average that 14 of which was subdivide as follows: 24/(3*25), 24/(4*25), 24/(5*25), --, till 24/(16*25)); and that last four units each was 19.25 mm. (or 1+2/75 or the average).  Figure-1, shows the projection plan of the three faces of the Egyptian cubit during the 18th dynasty that its length was 52.5 cm. The cubit of 45 cm contains 24 units that each equal 18.75 mm. in average, following the system of unity.

 

 


 

Figure-1: The projection plan of the royal Egyptian cubit of 52.5 cm, form the 18th dynasty[14]

 

What have been presented so far shows that one cannot establish any measurement unit without knowing first the meter; the measurement units that both Plato and Herodotus mentioned in their writings are all based on the metric system. Herodotus said that the distance between Heliopolis and the sea is fifteen hundred furlongs, which equals 210 km. He said too that from Heliopolis to Thebes the distance is eighty-one schoenes, or 4860 furlongs which equals 680.4 km. Then we found that furlongs equals 140m and the schoenes equals 8.4 Km.  Similarly, from the relations between the units that Herodotus gave, we calculated the corresponding values of each. We noticed that there is a hierarchy in the system of measurements, which coincide with the system that Plato mentioned in Critias. Table-1 shows the values, in meter, of any measurement unit that was used in Ancient Egypt, based on the perfect number of 28, and shows that the Egyptian furlonge equals the Greek stadium or stadion and that the Egyptian Parasange equals the statdia of the Greek system. Besides, we found that there are many kinds of stadion, stadium, and furlonge that vary from 500, 600 to 700 Egyptian feet. The stadium that Plato used is the one of 500 Egyptian feet that in total equal 140m.  When Plato, was using stadia in identifying the area of the governed agricultural zones along the ditch of the river Nile, he used it as an acre, i.e., a square plot of 10 stadia each way equals 100 acres, the stadia is not used here as a linear-distance but as an area-distance. 

 

Concerning the date of the war between the Atlanteans and the Athenian that was in 9000 years before Plato's days, and was before the great inundation, according to Al-Maqrezy[15] (the Egyptian Historian), in the chapter of the pyramids, the time of the great inundation was 2800 years before Alexander the great, i.e., it was 2750 years before Plato's days. It is obvious that the Egyptian priests were counting the dates by seasons and not based on years. Knowing that the Egyptian year consisted of three seasons[16], thus, 9000 seasons give 3000 years which is close to Al-Maqrezy's figure, when he talked about the golden ages of the ancient Egypt before the great deluge, and that was taken from the books and papyri of the Ancient Egyptians.

 

 

 

Table-1: The metric values of the Egyptian &

Greek measurement units.

 

Name of the Measurement unite
 Origin
 Its value in Meter
 Its value in other ancient measurement unite
 Source
 
Foot
 Egyptian/Greak
 0.28 (28 centimeters)
 --
 Herodotus
 
Fathoma of 5 feet
 Egyptian
 1.40
 5 Egyptian feet
 Herodotus
 
Fathoma of 6 feet
 Egyptian
 1.68
 6 Egyptian feet
 Herodotus
 
Fathoma of 7 feet
 --
 1.96
 7 Egyptian feet
 --
 
Furlonge
 Egyptian
 140
 500 feet
 Herodotus
 
Furlonge
 
 168
 600 feet
 
 
Parasange
 Egyptian
 4200
 30 Furlonges of 500 feet
 Herodotus
 
Schoine
 Egyptian
 8400
 60 Furlong
 Herodotus
 
Stadium/Stadion
 Greek
 140, 168, or 196
 500, 600, or 700 feet
 Plato/Herodotus
 
Stade
 Greek
 420
 1500 feet
 --
 
Stadia
 Greek
 4200
 30 stadiums of 500 feet
 Plato
 

 

 

 

 

 

4- The structural plan of the Nile Delta at the time of Atlantis's Kingdom.

 

Plato described Atlantis as an island and as a continent.  The island is a land in the middle of, or which is surrounded, by water, e.g., sea, ocean, or river, no matter the size of this island is. The term continent means an enormous piece of land that may include many countries. In Egypt the equivalent of the term continent is the word Gurat or Qarat قارة. It means any region of land that is surrounded by water canals or even the run-offs of the rains. Today, in many geographic maps of the western desert of Egypt we read names of regions like the continent of (or qarat) Mashroka, the continent of Adad and the continent of Gohanam and many others. In the Egyptian context, the term continent means region, which is different from its global meaning like the continent of Africa or the continent of America.

 

Besides, when Plato said that Atlantis' continent is bigger than Asia and Libya, he meant the Gurat of Asian tribes and the Gurat of Libyan tribes. In Critias[17], we read the description of the island of Atlantis: "was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean." He meant the earthquake closed the river Nile so that no body was able to sail either from the river to the sea and then to the ocean; because the Nile delta became impassable barrier of mud.   

 

We could understand from Plato's description of the planning of Atlantis in the Nile Delta that the architectonicians of Atlantis used the hill at the apexes of the Nile delta as a center of circular planning organization like an orbital disk of the solar system. From this point of origin they made north-south axis, from then to the sea; its length was 210 Km (fifty stadia) that represented the radius of the orbital disk. As the Nile delta is semi-triangular in shape, the shape of the kingdom was only a portion of the orbital disk (circle) that its central angle equals 57.29 degrees, which was divided by the central axis into two equal portions. That geometrical organization generated a planning domain of equal edges: the eastern and western radii and the northern arc adjacent to the sea and that each equals 210 km or fifty stadias (in radii, each equals 57.29 degree), as seen in figure-2.

 

They divided the mud lands, within the planning domain, from the central point to the outer arc into five zones, similar to the zone between five orbits, and following unified interval of 21.0 Km (10 stadia). Each of the ten zones was subdivided into four sub-zones with the following intervals: 6.3, 6.3, 4.2, and 4.2 km respectively from the sea to the center.

 


 

Click on picture to see high resolution

 

Figure-2: Structural Plan of the Atlantis's Kingdom in the Nile Delta, which shows the central island, zones of lands and waters, and the central canal. It shows as well the location of the three cities that still existing till this moment in the Egyptian delta,  which are located on equidistance and aligned with the meridian and that carries the names of three Atlantean kings: Gadeirus قطورة, Atlas تلا , and Evae-mon منوف.

 

 

At the apexes of the Nile delta they constructed the central circular island that forms the sun of the orbital disk. The radius of the central island was 10.5 km, (2.5 stadia) which was divided into three zones on equidistance (3.5 km) and that central island was surrounded by a canal of 140 meter width (one stadium). The central island was the royal island wherein the main temple and the main palace were located. The location of this central island was probably in Abou Rawash, as it is located exactly on the central axis of the Nile delta, or it may was including Heliopolis before changing the geography of the Nile due to the great inundation.

 

In Critias we read, along the central axis (north-south) they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width (84 meter) and one hundred feet in depth (28 meter) and fifty stadia in length (210 km), which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this (the central circular island at the apex of the Nile Delta), which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress. The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia (21.0 Km). All this including the zones and the bridge, which was the sixth part of a stadium (23.33 meter) in width, they surrounded by a stone wall on every side, placing towers and gates on the bridges where the sea passed in. Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water."

 

Concerning the descriptions of the lands of Egypt and the river Nile above the central island, Citias[18] said:

 

"I have described the city and the environs of the ancient palace nearly in the words of Solon, and now I must endeavour to represent the nature and arrangement of the rest of the land. The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city (central island) was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, (1260 Km North-South) but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia (840 Km East-West).  This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work. I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages. It was for the most part rectangular and oblong, and where falling out of the straight line followed the circular ditch. The depth, and width, and length of this ditch (of the river Nile) were incredible, and gave the impression that a work of such extent, in addition to so many others, could never have been artificial. Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was excavated to the depth of a hundred, feet, (28 meter) and its breadth was a stadium (140 meter) everywhere; it was carried round the whole of the plain, and was ten thousand stadia (stade)[19] in length (4200 Km.) It received the streams which came down from the mountains, and winding round the plain and meeting at the city (the central island), was there let off into the sea (the branches of the river Nile in the Delta). Further inland, likewise, straight canals of a hundred feet in width (28 meter) were cut from it through the plain, and again let off into the ditch leading to the sea: these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia/stade (110 Km), and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city, and conveyed the fruits of the earth in ships, cutting transverse passages from one canal into another, and to the city. Twice in the year they gathered the fruits of the earth-in winter having the benefit of the rains of heaven, and in summer the water which the land supplied by introducing streams from the canals.

 

As to the population, each of the lots in the plain had to find a leader for the men who were fit for military service, and the size of a lot was a square of ten stadia each way (100 squares that each equal stadia of 4200m2, in total they are 100 acres), and the total number of all the lots was sixty thousand (accordingly the total area of cultivated land of Egypt during the Atlantis's kingdom was 6 million acres).  And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of the country there was also a vast multitude, which was distributed among the lots and had leaders assigned to them according to their districts and villages."

 

The Governance roles of Atlantis as established by its first King Poseidon were forming the oldest primitive but democratic and decentralized federal system, on the land of Egypt. Each of the ten kings who were the sons of Poseidon was governing his own region on decentralized bases; in Critias we read:  "As to offices and honours, the following was the arrangement from the first. Each of the ten kings in his own division and in his own city had the absolute control of the citizens, and, in most cases, of the laws, punishing and slaying whomsoever he would. Now the order of precedence among them and their mutual relations were regulated by the commands of Poseidon which the law had handed down. These were inscribed by the first kings on a pillar of orichalcum (that was coated with coral), which was situated in the middle of the island, at the temple of Poseidon, whither the kings were gathered together every fifth and every sixth year alternately, thus giving equal honour to the odd and to the even number. And when they were gathered together they consulted about their common interests, and enquired if any one had transgressed in anything and passed judgment and before they passed judgment they gave their pledges to one another"

 

 

5- Reading and writing Hieroglyphs, for any language:

 

Although, Egyptologists have done great advances in understanding the Hieroglyphic system of writing during the last two centuries; there are still many things that are not understood; e.g.: (i) The rule of how to use and pronounce any figure, as a Hieroglyphic letter, i.e., assume that I would like to add to the ancient array of letters the symbols of the following things of our days: television, telephone, train, mobile, metro, computer, car, cable, bus, breech,  etc, how to identify the letter that each indicates? (ii) The rule of how to identify the sequence of pronouncing the letters of each word, i.e., which letter has the priority for pronunciation before the other. (iii) The rule of the seven letters that by which one can transfer any name used by any tongue to its equivalent in any other tongue; the rule that Solon learned it from the Egyptian priests, in Sais.

 

When one come across these kind of studies and understand these three basic rules, he may be able to identify the names of Atlas, Gades, and the rest of the Atlantean kings in the list of Abydos or the like and will be able too to know what Hieroglyphic texts that speak about them are.

 

The author have studied these three basic roles and endeavors to propose the basic idea of the hieroglyphic system of writings. Logically, writing comes after speaking and never before it. It meant that all words were used and heard before inventing any writing technique. The inventor of the hieroglyphic system thought about very simple idea for writing any word by using the nouns of any language. For example, if I would like to write any noun, like the word CAT using the nowadays symbols and based on the English language. I may use three things that the first letter of each has the same pronunciation as the three letters of the word CAT respectively. I could use the figures of Camera, Accordion, and Tower, as shown in figure-3, or the figures of Cat, Artillery, and Tank or any other variety according to the array of words in the English language. Concerning the plural case we can add two or three dashes after the third latter, however, when adding only one dash after any latter it means pronouncing it as if the latter "A" followed it.

 

  Figure-3: writing Cat, using the English Hieroglyphs.

 

Similarly, if I would like to write the verb CUT, I may us the figure of Urn, or the Unicorn for representing the letter U, and I may also add a figure of a man while he cuts, and if he uses the sword, the letter S of the sword will be pronounced as the S of the third person. If I would like to write only the three letters of the verb cut, I would use the figure of any cutting instrument that its name starts with the letter T, or don’t us a cutting tool at all. As a general role, any things or instruments used should be pronounced. Besides, the inventor of the Egyptian hieroglyphs, as he was an architectonician, made a pronunciation for the ground line and for the cantilever, that upon then the birds stand; in English they will be pronounced as G and C respectively. This will be the English Hieroglyphs; one can use the above simple idea for creating the hieroglyphic system of writing for any language. Taking into consideration that, when presenting any figure, we should respect the architectonic system of presentation of the things we use, namely: plan, side view and elevation. Typical to the way we see the thing in nature, e.g., the river should be in plan, the dress should be in elevation and any bird should be in side view. 

 

Now for the case of the ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs, what was their language? Based on the above the key to understand that is based on knowing the name of any figure upon which its first letter would be the sound that it indicates. I mean, in order to identify the correct letter for the owl we must know what was the name of the owl in their language. Based on reviewing many hieroglyphic texts, the author found that the ancient Egyptians were speaking the Arabic language, the mother of all languages of man, that is based on the 28 letters of the solar system that nobody could be able to pronounce more than them. Thus for the case of the owl, its Arabic name was and still Poma   بومةthus the owl is the letter P and not the letter M as many have thought. One can reestablish the glossary of letters of the Ancient Egyptians, based on knowing the correct Arabic name of animals, birds, plants, apparatus, instruments, etc. that they used in their writings.

 

Based on this we can read the names of kings in a correct way. For example, the king that his name is pronounced as Khufu,  his name is written by three figures: the coarse sieve that is called "Gurbal"غربال , the short-snake that is called "Duresha" تورشه, and young-chick  that was called "Werwer" ورور. Thus his name is Gado جادو, the twin brother of Atlas. The king that Egyptologists pronounces his name as Teti, his name is composed of three letter, one of palm-leaves that was called "Argon أرجون" and two of "Tala طالع" which means the riser, as half the sun appears on the horizon during the sun rise. Thus the correct pronunciation of his name is Atala الطالع/الدلا. Besides, the king that Egyptologists pronounced his name as Nefer-Ka-Ra,  his name is composed of three letters: the coffee or seed-mill which is called Raha الراحة, musical instrument that is called Oud عود , and the double that is called Garien  جرين. Accordingly, the correct pronunciation of his name is Ariag (عرياج). The letter of Raha should be pronounced as the second letter of the name. Ariag could be pronounced as Ariageen or Ariagil and the letter Ain  ع in Arabic is usually transferred into the letter H in Latin as in Abry       عبرىand Hebrew. Besides, the Arabic letter Geem   جbecomes the letter C; thus the equivalent Greek pronunciation of the name of the Egyptian king Ariagil is Heracles. In the history of Al-Maqrizi[20], in the chapter of the city of Amsos, he mentioned the story of the kings of Atlantis and the first Egyptian king Ariagil (Heracles). In this chapter he mentioned the correct names of the kings of Egypt like Ariab , Naga   (wrongly neb-Ka), Awsal or Hosal (wrongly Senefru); its first letter S is the salaba or the sedal, which is the rope of the crane. Al-Maqurizi mentioned the name of Atlas as Atatel.  And in Abydos list we see that there were about three Heracles; and there were also three Atlas. In short, the kings of Egypt from the first dynasty to nearly the end of the fifth dynasty are the kings of the Atlantis kingdom in the Nile Delta.

 

Moreover, Herodotus mentioned the following sequence of the Egyptian kings: Sesostris, Pheron, Proteus, Rhampsinitus, and Cheops. If we compare this sequence with what is mentioned in Abydos's list, based on what have been mentioned as the way of pronouncing the names,    of the Egyptian kings, we will find no difference at all.

 

 

 

6- The lesson of the story of Atlantis and its utopian model.

 

If one read Timaeus, from A to Z, he may observe that, and this will be a false observation, the part about the story of Atlantis could be omitted without weakening the architectonic quality of this particular dialogue; i.e., what is the relation between God's scenario of creation and the story of Atlantis that upon which Plato was obliged to put its prelude in Timaeus? Why he did not include it with the dialogue of Critias, instead of adding it to a dialogue about something else?

 

One may answer these questions in a naïve way that reveal the architectonic illiteracy of the mind who may think for a moment that the scenario proceeded as follows. Imagine that the dialogues of Timaeus and Critias are the scripts of two live seminars in philosophical TV program, and Plato may was either the gifted director who organized and directed them or was the highly professional cameraman who recorded them. Socrates was their moderator, seating with the guest speakers before Plato's mental camera. If the two scenarios proceeded as we read them, and according to the regulations, Plato cannot make any changes on the script of the talk, the decision of including the prelude of the Atlantis story with the dialogue of Timaeus was not of him; it was spontaneous and unexpected talk by one of the guest speakers, or due to that the guest that was planned to speak first was absent and Socrates used his time for continuing other talk, and thus Plato was obliged to record it. As said earlier, this might be one of the naive assumptions.

 

Plato as a philosopher, has the power of decision making on every word and every sentence that he mentioned in his publications; when he decide to make this strange architectonic division of the Atlantis story, either was it true or only a myth, he must had in mind very reasonable answer that was clearly understood by the commentators of his days and the fellows of his school of thought. Taking into consideration that this specific division implies that the dialogue of Critias, I mean the story of Atlantis, was in his mind while he was writing Timaeus, and the opposite case is valid too.

 

Related to the above, to which dialogue-message the story of Atlantis is strongly correlated: the Republic or Timaeus? In the Republic, Plato did not mention any thing about Atlantis; he preferred to link its scenario with what Timaeus had said. He thought that its story is more related to the God-made perpetual laws of nature more than the man-made utopian laws. Atlantis's utopia was a man-made model; I mean a kind of ideology that was formulated by a gifted-mind of an ancient scientist/philosopher that was called the children of God because he was the best of the bests in his days to understand the laws of god in nature, he was Poseidon.

 

One of these laws, that any Egyptian priest know,  is the one that the ancient Egyptians called the law of the letter "N", the law of Neshor قانون النشور presented by the form of the Hieroglyphic letter N   and that Plato, Pythagoras, and the many other ancient philosophers, including Herodotus too did understand it by heart.  That law simply says that the path of the man-made but perfect utopia goes side by side with the path of the God-made celestial cycles; any utopia reaches its climax of application at the point of time when such specific cycle reverses its direction of motion. At these particular points (knots) in the path of time and the history of mankind, unexpected events occur either natural or human; at that time the perfect utopia that every body did admire it reaches its end and decline by two simultaneous catastrophes: one of them is natural and the other is man-made. 

 

Those who did not hear about the law of "N" may dedicate the decline of this type to man or societal-made causes and others may say it was due to a natural disaster. In any religious doctrine the law of N is termed as: because people had deviated from the correct path, God punished them. When and where on earth the people of any civilization deviate from the correct path of their perfect utopia and how to calculate the time interval between major and minor knots of their civilization is the whole idea of the law of the letter "N" that was coherent part of the ideology of ancient Egyptian priests.   How many minor knots between two major knots? E.g., for any waterfront region, how many inundations will occur between two great deluges like that of the Deucalion? 

 

In Timaeus[21], the elder priest said:  "There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes"  In short, the lesson of the story of Atlantis, is giving an example on how the God-Law of the letter N works, not only in the past but in all times and in all places on Earth. The Ancient Egyptians did study this law and recorded it in detail, including its full sets of mathematical equations, using different means of presentations.

 

Based on the architectonic cosmic theories[22], the earth has a water cycle which was called the Hor-Mageeddon's cycle and that its time-span is about 5070 Earth-year. Four of this cycle make half the obliquity cycle of the earth. Each of the Hor-Mageedon's cycle is composed of 26 minor-cycles that the time-span of each equals 195 year. The major-disaster of the great deluge or great earthquake comes every 5070 year. The deluge that destructed the Atlantis was in 3070 BC. The one that followed it was that of the Indian Ocean that called the tsunami. It seems that the location of the destruction on earth changes its position by 90 degrees in each Hor-Mageedon cycle. Concerning the minor-cycle of 195 year, these are the cycles of the floods of the rivers, every two cycles of 390 year there will be major river flood in any region. The ancient Egyptian recorded this law of the latter N in the design of the great master-piece of the bent pyramid.   

 

The key lesson of the story of Atlantis is recognizing the link between God's scenario of creation and man's ambition for a long-lasting utopian seat in any place on our mother Earth. When taking this into consideration man and nations must recognize when and where distraction will tack place on earth, calling for primary measures to conserve the people, the heritage and the acquired knowledge of man for the future generations, following the basic theme of sustaining the humanity, to be able to live, after the time of the great natural catastrophes/disasters.

 

 http://www.fotouh.netfirms.com/Aboulfotouh-Atlantis.htm

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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2007, 09:34:43 am »

http://www.secretacademy.com/pages/eygypstandards.htm
Egyptian Standards





It has long been accepted that the measurement systems used throughout the Greek and Roman world had first been perfected in Egypt.  What is universally referred to as the 'common Egyptian' foot of 300mm continued to be used in Rome in conjunction with the system that is acknowledged as 'Roman'.  This Roman system is related to the Greek by a ratio of 24 to 25, and it is the measurements adopted by the Greeks that are the true basis of the Egyptian structure. 





What is accepted as "common" Egyptian measure is related to the "royal" by a ratio of 6 to 7.  Thus, six palms of four digits is the common Egyptian cubit, and seven palms, or 28 digits, is the royal Egyptian cubit.  This six to seven ratio links values in a multitude of systems.  It is, for example, the ratio of the human anatomical foot being one seventh of the overall height of the canonical man, which height is then regarded as six feet of the longer value.  (If the anatomical foot is a half royal Egyptian cubit, then the man is six English feet tall).  Many examples of statuary throughout the ancient world overtly display this identical ratio in other values and systems. 


 



Royal cubit rod (Turin) showing the varied digit sub divisions which have never been satisfactorily explained
 
However, the convention of dividing the royal cubit solely into 28 digits was a comparatively late development of the New Kingdom, which was after 1350 BC.  Middle Kingdom rods carried a dual scale of 24 digits and 28 digits.  But Old Kingdom cubit rods, from 3400 BC, although of the identical lengths, were divided exclusively into 24 digits.  It was a widely held conception, repeated by Herodotus, that the royal cubit was three digits longer than the common.  Therefore, the true common cubit of the Egyptians was related to the royal by a ratio of seven to eight, and this is the exact relationship of the Greek system to the royal Egyptian.  This seven to eight relationship between measures is as widespread as is the now accepted six to seven. 





Very distinct relationships, by variations of a single fraction, are immediately apparent in these comparisons.  The acceptance of this fact is fundamental to an understanding of ancient metrology.  For this is how the Egyptians calculated.  A multiple fraction, say 4/7ths would not be recognised, because only one seventh could occupy the seventh place.  This fraction would therefore have to be expressed as ½ + 1/14th.  That is, the greater fraction would have to be written first, and depending on the complexity of the original fraction in question, lesser fractions would diminutively approach its solution.  For day-to-day problems involving such questions as amounts to be shared among numbers etc., this is an extremely clumsy system.  As many as forty of these diminishing single fractions have been recorded in expressing one multiple fraction, (such as 261/383, etc.).  But when the method is applied to metrology, it works extremely well.  Therefore, these exoteric methods of calculation, which were also practised by the Greeks and Romans, may well stem from a base of metrology; and when applied to day-to-day problems, although simple, are extremely laborious.  It is hardly likely that the scientists used such cumbrous methods.  It is a virtual certainty that the decimal method of calculation was known, although not divulged to the general workforce and artisans. 





Another of the fundamental truths, which must be acknowledged to come to an understanding of the complexities of ancient metrology, is the fact that the primary system adopted by the Greeks is the root from which all other systems develop.  For it is the variations of the Greek foot, that when expressed in terms of the English foot are also equations.  The values are the formulae by which all of the other measures that develop from it are divided or multiplied into their classifications.  (This is adequately dealt with on the essay on the Greek system). 





All other systems of mensuration stem from the Root English (Greek) foot, by the addition or subtraction of a substantial fraction.  It is not the royal cubit, nor any other of these ancient standards, that is the basis of their systems, for they themselves are compounds.  The basic, or Root royal Egyptian cubit, is 12/7 English feet, or 1.7142857ft; this is the English cubit of 1½ ft plus one seventh.  Many examples of the use of this value are recognized with close precision.  One of the three ritualistic standard cubit rods of the Turin Museum (above) is given as 20.587 inches, and 12/7  English feet are 20.5714 inches.  John Perring, when he surveyed the pyramid of Amenemhet III at Dashur, found the base side to measure 342.5 ft, and 200 royal cubits of 12/7ft are 342.8571ft.  The cubit of construction in the step pyramid of Zoser is given as 20.55 inches.  Therefore is possible to state in absolute terms, this length, among others, as a standard expression of the royal cubit.

 

It is by the addition of the 440th part to this Root cubit that it becomes the Standard royal cubit of 1.71818ft. This is the precise length of the cubit of the Giza complex, as established by Petrie's survey of 1882. Both of these, Root and Standard royal Egyptian cubits, develop into the other recognised variants by the addition or subtraction of their 175th part. Mathematical reasons and examples for these fractional shifts are given in the Greek, Roman and Megalithic hyperlinks.

 

The tables that have been compiled, express the rigidly mathematical structure which underpins ancient metrology. However, in all nations, there are minor variations that do not adhere to these given values. Invariably these prove to be localised geographic variations, for the length of the meridian degree varies at all latitudes, and the whole system is essentially geodetic. The author is not the first to remark that the Egyptians measured itinerary distances by geographic degrees -- the analysis of the pyramid dimensions leaves little room for doubt on that score. The temple of Amun at Thebes was considered to be at the geodetic centre of Egypt, and the ornate omphalos discovered by Reisner at that location, is the trig point from which all distances were calculated. It is significant that Thebes is two sevenths of the distance from the equator to the pole, the degree at that latitude is the septenary 363428.57ft. The geographic foot, or the 360,000th part, of this degree is 1.009524ft, this is 106 to 105 English feet. The Root royal cubit fits this degree exactly 212,000 times, and by the convention established by Eratosthenes that there are 210,000 royal cubits to the degree, then this geographic variant of the royal cubit is 1.7306ft, which is 12/7 x 106/105, (or 1.71428ft x 1.009524ft). This explains why certain measures, such as this geographic cubit, do not conform to the tables of the strictly mathematical variations. It would seem that a cubit of this length, 1.7306ft, was used in the pyramid of Mycerinus, at 200 in the base side, and is within one part in 5400 of the cubit of Denderah, found by Clark and Engelbach, reported as 527.588 mm, and 1.7306ft is 527.486mm.

CLICK HERE FOR A MAP OF EGYPT

Also recovered from the temple of Amun, were three ritual stone cubit rods, they each carried the identical inscription, which stated that the overall length of Egypt, from Bhedet in the north to Syene in the south was 106 "atur". (An "atur" was 15,000 royal cubits, a "schoenus" was 12,000 royal cubits, and a "minute of march" was 150 royal cubits, as itinerary distances). The southern boundary of Egypt was taken to be different points for a variety of calculations, often enough, these would be natural features such as the great cataract, at the furthest point south. Then the first cataract as another acceptance of the boundary; also celestial bearings such as the tropic at around 24º. Before 1000 BC, Syene was reckoned as one of the southern limits, at 24º 06', where, at that time, the upper horn of the sun shone perpendicularly down a well only at the summer solstice. But a contrived, or rather, calculated, southern limit was considered to be a little to the north near Aswan, at a point on Biga island; and it is around this location, that the only royal cubit that would be a solution to the distance of 106 atur being the overall length of Egypt, would be the root cubit of 12/7 English feet. There is little doubt that Egyptians regarded such distances in geographic terms, or that they measured with this degree of accuracy. Because during the time of Akhenaten's reforms from 1367 BC, the city of Akhet-aten which he founded, was located at the exact geographic centre of Egypt and stated in several official inscriptions to be 6 atur, ¾ of a khet and 4 cubits in extent. Thus, over a distance exceeding 30 miles, the surveyors took into account single cubits.

 

Measures of all descriptions, adopted by a great number of nations, are acknowledged to have been used in Egypt, but these are the basics of their metrology, together with some of its applications. Although the Egyptians are acknowledged to have perfected the system and preserved it through an astonishing period of time -- the evidence would certainly imply that they neither invented nor discovered it. This is because contemporary cultures, with whom the Egyptians had no contact and were separated from by enormous distances, may be demonstrated to have used the identical system.

 

 

 

 

 

 
   
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 09:36:00 am »

Couldnt copy the pictures , Sorry..
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 12:13:44 pm »

Hi Julia
I sure do admire minds that can figure things like this out. 

What do you think?  Do you think Atlantis was in the Nile Delta?  Plato said it was protected from the north by mountains.  Are there mountains in the Nile Delta, or north of the spot in question?  He also said that a great power was going to attack Egypt and Athens in one blow.  Why would the Egyptians attack themselves?  Unless the rulers of that one area, were going to attack the rest of Egypt.  Plato also says that the Atlanteans had control of Libya and part of Europe.  I wonder if this meant as in a great trading power, or sea power? 
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 01:48:31 pm »

Dear Qoais;
I dont have enough knowledge of Archeology, geography, history and old scripts.to be able to say where Atlantis is..I am just reading on line and thinking the possibilities.I am an amateur.you are a professional may be on these areas.The Geography of the Nile delat doesnt fir to Atlantis, but, who knows how was it before??the culture of egypt is really very old and fascinating to me..if Atlantis not there, I wonder some of the Atlanteans came to Egypt may be beginning of the Egyptian civilization..
Salute with Love and Peace
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 10:14:31 pm »

Nice map, Julia, though I am not certain that there is much logic involved with the idea of actually making Atlantis Egypt:




Quote
1- Abstract:

 

The primary objective of this paper is to prove that the geographic domain of Atlantis kingdom is the Nile Delta; and the remaining lands of the banks of the river Nile, nearly till the current south border of Egypt, was part of this kingdom, forming the ancient Egypt at the time when Atlas was ruling it. Besides, the importance of this paper from both planning and developmental points of view has two folds. First, it shows the structural planning concept of the Nile Delta in approximately 5000 years ago, before its destruction by the great inundation. Second, it proves that the most ancient federal, decentralized, and democratic system of government was originated in Egypt, showing the distribution of agricultural lands and the local administration at that ancient time. Thirdly, it shows how destruction occurs in the waterfront regions of the earth. The methodology for proving that is based on analyzing the structural planning description that Plato mentioned in the dialogue of Critias. This will be supported by quantifying the value of the measurement unites that were used by Plato in his dialogue, namely: stadia and stadium, and drawing the map of the structural plan of the Nile delta at the time of Atlantis's kingdom. The measurement units will be used to check on to what extent the geographic descriptions that was mentioned by Plato matches the geography of the Nile and its settlements. That will be followed by proving that the names of the kings of Atlantis are mentioned in the kings' list of Abydos. Achieving this second task will be based on showing the method of pronouncing the hieroglyphic texts, particularly the names of kings and places, based on the presumption that Arabic was the tongue of the ancient Egyptian.
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 10:30:52 pm »

dear Helios:
I dont know.The egypts Geography doesnt fit the Atlantis..But This is only  this authors idea Not mine..i just brought here for a diffenrent point of view.
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 10:56:01 pm »

Hi Julia
No, I'm not a professional - in ANYthing!  I was trying to fit the location to the rest of Plato's description.  I know there are still remains of the lighthouse at Alexandria under the water.  Who knows what else is down there.
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 06:06:49 am »

I'd be the first one to jump on the Egypt being Atlantis theory, IF I thought it had merit. The first thing this author needed to do was run a spell check on his work before printing it for the world to see.  Sad  Secondly, you can't presume Arabic was the tongue of Ancient Khem.  Arabic may have been derived from the Khemetic language, but to make such the "presumption" that Arabic was Khemetic when trying to sound scientific just shows the author's ignorance.
Quote
Achieving this second task will be based on showing the method of pronouncing the hieroglyphic texts, particularly the names of kings and places, based on the presumption that Arabic was the tongue of the ancient Egyptian.
Quote
The researchers in the filed of Egyptology thought that the ancient Egyptian used only the cubit.
Give me a break, please!  Is this guy just making stuff up now? 

There is a lost paradise in Egypt as told by the Koran, but it has nothing to do with Atlantis and is buried under the sand.  Besides all the assumptions in this guy's work, Critias and Timeaus also state that Egypt was not part of the Atlantean's territories. This in itself debunks any idea that Egypt was Atlantis.

Quote
I know there are still remains of the lighthouse at Alexandria under the water. Who knows what else is down there.
The rest of Alexandria.  Smiley

Blessed be,
Lynn
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 11:20:55 am »

As far as I know thee Lighthouse at the Cape named Pharos was built in 250 bc I think underneave they cut the buildingblocks but then these old stone quarries must be underwatervaults today.   This Lighthouse fell victim to three Earthquakes one in 400 ad, and twice in 800 ad aftrewards the 2 top levels were taken down & used for turkish fortifications
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( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 11:31:31 am »

Hi Julia
I sure do admire minds that can figure things like this out. 

What do you think?  Do you think Atlantis was in the Nile Delta?  Plato said it was protected from the north by mountains.  Are there mountains in the Nile Delta, or north of the spot in question?  He also said that a great power was going to attack Egypt and Athens in one blow.  Why would the Egyptians attack themselves?  Unless the rulers of that one area, were going to attack the rest of Egypt.  Plato also says that the Atlanteans had control of Libya and part of Europe.  I wonder if this meant as in a great trading power, or sea power? 

Dear QOiAS,


 since Atlantis is in ADEN, by the revolution of the Starsigns in 855 bc it may have the appearance that Lower Egypt and Lybia were Atlantis once, but Alas Atlanytis was in Upper-Egypt which wasin Plato's time"Erytraea & Somalia & South-Araby.

If Liquification of waterlogged Sand took place in 10.000 or even 1.0000 bc in the NileDelta as it does now at certain building-places in Alxandria, than no buildings could surviuve.

In the Gulf or  Bay of Abukir the whole harbour-City of Heraclea-Polis-minor has sunk by liqufication only in 800 ad completely with all Statues intact which should proove that the making of immages was not yet "Connonized"as forbidden-law in the Muslim Faith.
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( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 05:03:40 pm »



Q and Cleasterwood:

There have been quite a few TV specials on the recovery of relics  in
the sea  off Alexandria.

Keep alert, one of the proper channels will propably rerun one of them
during the summer.

B
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 09:07:33 pm »

There are some videos in the Internet:
http://www.franckgoddio.org/sitemap/Project/ProjectArticel.aspx?ProjectName=CanopicRegion&Layout=B&XmlDocument=0001.xml
Is there any tranlations of Al-maqrizi??(Egyptian historian)
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 09:34:47 pm »

Plenty of translations, but none in english that I'm aware of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Maqrizi
"Most of his works are concerned with Egypt. The most important is the Mawaiz wa al-'i'tibar bi dhikr al-khitat wa al-'athar (2 vols., Bulaq, 1854), translated into French by Urbain Bouriant as Description topographique et historique de l'Egypte"
*******
I'm kind of interested in George Elmacinus as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Elmacin

************
Atlantis Bull Cult:
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/001ShortEntries/SEThoosa.html
Zagreus (Dionysus 1). Son either of Zeus and Demeter, or of Zeus and Persephone. Zagreus or Dionysus 1 (the first of two or perhaps three Dionysus) was killed by the TITANS who destroyed him with an infernal knife, cutting him into pieces. For a time he appeared in different shapes but finally collapsed. It is also said that the TITANS boiled him, but his members were brought together by Demeter and he experienced a new birth. It is said as well that the son of Zeus and Persephone was dismembered by the TITANS and that Zeus gave his heart, torn to bits, to Semele in a drink and she was thus made pregnant [Dio.3.62.6-7, 3.64.1; Hyg. Fab.167; Nonn.5.565, 6.165ff.; Dio.3.62.6].

Also discussed by Clement 6.2.2
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 02:14:03 pm »

Julia,
Here is an incomplete version of my theory.  There are several major problems that need to be corrected, but I believe it is still an interesting read.

http://www.freefilehosting.org/public/41513/Atlantis%20in%20Alexandria2.doc
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 02:20:55 pm by Danaus » Report Spam   Logged
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