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Inventory Stela

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Psycho
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« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2009, 01:36:15 pm »

Catastrophe
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Rate Member   posted 08-14-2004 08:02 AM                       
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"What would we expect would have happened? Khufu, first on the scene, would naturally have laid claim to the largest pyramid for himself, or the Great Pyramid. His successor, Khafre, now left with only two pyramids to choose from, would have taken possession of the second largest. Menkhare, the last to reign, would have had to be content with the last pyramid available, the smallest of the three."
Has one never heard of Pharaohs putting their names on other Pharaohs' monuments etc.? If a Pharaoh wanted to put his name on another's pyramid, chances are he would have done.



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« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2009, 01:36:31 pm »

Tom Hebert
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  posted 08-14-2004 08:04 AM                       
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Cat,
I researched this several years ago and got very frustrated at the lack of photographic evidence in the construction chambers.

Instead, we are left to mull over 2nd and 3rd hand evidence in the form of writings and crude drawings of people who claim to have seen the images and who know exactly what they mean. Sad

I'll see if I can come up with any additional websites either pro or con. Like so many other things about the GP this subject may remain a mystery forever.

Tom



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« Reply #77 on: August 18, 2009, 01:36:46 pm »

 
Catastrophe
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http://www.ianlawton.com/st1.htm
"also for the detailed photographic study of the "quarry marks" carried out by Hawass, which we have tied down to a date of November or December 1996."

Can't see any.



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« Reply #78 on: August 18, 2009, 01:37:02 pm »

 
Absonite

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  posted 08-14-2004 12:24 PM                       
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CLEasterwood,
Nah, I still think you need to retract that statement. I very much enjoyed reading what you posted about Imhotep. Certainly he was quite an extraordinary gentleman. Perhaps **one** of the greatest in ancient history. But, the "first doctor", I don't think so. Even common sense indicates that he was not. Obviously mankind was much older than the Egyptians and obviously some types of medicine were in usage before Imhotep (even if inferior). Perhaps he was the greatest doctor of his time and even before although even that is not likely.

"MEDICINE UNDER THE SHAMANS


The entire life of ancient men was prophylactic; their religion was in no small measure a technique for disease prevention. And regardless of the error in their theories, they were wholehearted in putting them into effect; they had
unbounded faith in their methods of treatment, and that, in itself, is a powerful remedy.
.........
...........

Disease was treated by chanting, howling, laying on of hands, breathing on the patient, and many other techniques. In later times the resort to temple sleep, during which healing supposedly took place, became widespread. The medicine men eventually essayed actual surgery in connection with temple slumber; among the first operations was that of trephining the skull to allow a headache spirit to escape. The shamans learned to treat fractures and dislocations, to open boils and abscesses; the shamanesses became adept at midwifery.

It was a common method of treatment to rub something magical on an infected or blemished spot on the body, throw the charm away, and supposedly experience a cure. If anyone should chance to pick up the discarded charm, it was believed he would immediately acquire the infection or blemish. It was a long time before herbs and other real medicines were introduced. Massage was developed in connection with incantation, rubbing the spirit out of the body, and was preceded by efforts to rub medicine in, even as moderns attempt to rub liniments in. Cupping and sucking the affected parts, together with bloodletting, were thought to be of value in getting rid of a disease-producing spirit.

Since water was a potent fetish, it was utilized in the treatment of many ailments. For long it was believed that the spirit causing the sickness could be eliminated by sweating. Vapor baths were highly regarded; natural hot springs soon blossomed as primitive health resorts. Early man discovered that heat would relieve pain; he used sunlight, fresh animal organs, hot clay, and hot stones, and many of these methods are still employed. Rhythm was practiced in an effort to influence the spirits; the tom-toms were universal.

Among some people disease was thought to be caused by a wicked conspiracy between spirits and animals. This gave rise to the belief that there existed a beneficent plant remedy for every animal-caused disease. The red men were especially devoted to the plant theory of universal remedies; they always put a drop of blood in the root hole left when the plant was pulled up.

Fasting, dieting, and counterirritants were often used as remedial measures. Human secretions, being definitely magical, were highly regarded; blood and urine were thus among the earliest medicines and were soon augmented by roots and various salts. The shamans believed that disease spirits could be driven out of the body by foul-smelling and bad-tasting medicines. Purging very early became a routine treatment, and the values of raw cocoa and quinine were among the earliest pharmaceutical discoveries.

The Greeks were the first to evolve truly rational methods of treating the sick. Both the Greeks and the Egyptians received their medical knowledge from the Euphrates valley. Oil and wine was a very early medicine for treating wounds; castor oil and opium were used by the Sumerians. Many of these ancient and effective secret remedies lost their power when they became known; secrecy has always been essential to the successful practice of fraud and superstition. Only facts and truth court the full light of comprehension and rejoice in the illumination and enlightenment of scientific research."


And ms. Easterwood,
are you forgetting there was also Adam & Eve. Although not the traditional depiction from the Biblical sources, The myths of Aliens and Supermen & Women of which Adam & Eve were certainly members of that illustrious corps, Medicine or health was ALWAYS taught and was foremost in all the activities of the Garden of Eden and well known by both Adam & Eve, as they were to be the "biologic uplifters" of the evolving races of Earth, Believe what you want though, but Imhotep was not the "first doctor" no matter what your credentialed so-called Egyptologists tell you and that you parrott back as so-called distorted erroneous "truth".

"Adam and Eve arrived on Urantia, from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago. It was in midseason when the Garden was in the height of bloom that they arrived. At high noon and unannounced, the two seraphic transports, accompanied by the Jerusem personnel intrusted with the transportation of the biologic uplifters to Urantia, settled slowly to the surface of the revolving planet in the vicinity of the temple of the Universal Father. All the work of rematerializing the bodies of Adam and Eve was carried on within the precincts of this newly created shrine. And from the time of their arrival ten days passed before they were re-created in dual human form for presentation as the world's new rulers. They regained consciousness simultaneously. The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. They are designed to work in pairs; seldom do they function alone.

1. ADAM AND EVE ON JERUSEM


Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The Planetary Adam and Eve of Urantia were members of the senior corps of Material Sons on Jerusem, being jointly number 14,311. They belonged to the third physical series and were a little more than eight feet in height.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê At the time Adam was chosen to come to Urantia, he was employed, with his mate, in the trial-and-testing physical laboratories of Jerusem. For more than fifteen thousand years they had been directors of the division of experimental energy as applied to the modification of living forms. Long before this they had been teachers in the citizenship schools for new arrivals on Jerusem. And all this should be borne in mind in connection with the narration of their subsequent conduct on Urantia.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê When the proclamation was issued calling for volunteers for the mission of Adamic adventure on Urantia, the entire senior corps of Material Sons and Daughters volunteered. The Melchizedek examiners, with the approval of Lanaforge and the Most Highs of Edentia, finally selected the Adam and Eve who subsequently came to function as the biologic uplifters of Urantia."
.........
...........

"The sixth day was devoted to an inspection of the numerous types of men and animals. Along the walls eastward in Eden, Adam and Eve were escorted all day, viewing the animal life of the planet and arriving at a better understanding as to what must be done to bring order out of the confusion of a world inhabited by such a variety of living creatures.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê It greatly surprised those who accompanied Adam on this trip to observe how fully he understood the nature and function of the thousands upon thousands of animals shown him. The instant he glanced at an animal, he would indicate its nature and behavior. Adam could give names descriptive of the origin, nature, and function of all material creatures on sight. Those who conducted him on this tour of inspection did not know that the world's new ruler was one of the most expert anatomists of all Satania; and Eve was equally proficient. Adam amazed his associates by describing hosts of living things too small to be seen by human eyes.

The Adamic children did not take milk from animals when they ceased to nurse the mother's breast at one year of age. Eve had access to the milk of a great variety of nuts and to the juices of many fruits, and knowing full well the chemistry and energy of these foods, she suitably combined them for the nourishment of her children until the appearance of teeth.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê While cooking was universally employed outside of the immediate Adamic sector of Eden, there was no cooking in Adam's household. They found their foods--fruits, nuts, and cereals--ready prepared as they ripened. They ate once a day, shortly after noontime.

The children of Adam, except for four years' attendance at the western schools, lived and worked in the "east of Eden." They were trained intellectually until they were sixteen in accordance with the methods of the Jerusem schools. From sixteen to twenty they were taught in the Urantia schools at the other end of the Garden, serving there also as teachers in the lower grades.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The entire purpose of the western school system of the Garden was socialization. The forenoon periods of recess were devoted to practical horticulture and agriculture, the afternoon periods to competitive play. The evenings were employed in social intercourse and the cultivation of personal friendships. Religious and sexual training were regarded as the province of the home, the duty of parents.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The teaching in these schools included instruction regarding:

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 1. Health and the care of the body.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 2. The golden rule, the standard of social intercourse.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 3. The relation of individual rights to group rights and community obligations.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 4. History and culture of the various earth races.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 5. Methods of advancing and improving world trade.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 6. Co-ordination of conflicting duties and emotions.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 7. The cultivation of play, humor, and competitive substitutes for physical fighting.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The schools, in fact every activity of the Garden, were always open to visitors. Unarmed observers were freely admitted to Eden for short visits. To sojourn in the Garden a Urantian had to be "adopted." He received instructions in the plan and purpose of the Adamic bestowal, signified his intention to adhere to this mission, and then made declaration of loyalty to the social rule of Adam and the spiritual sovereignty of the Universal Father.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The laws of the Garden were based on the older codes of Dalamatia and were promulgated under seven heads:

1. The laws of health and sanitation.

2. The social regulations of the Garden.

3. The code of trade and commerce.

4. The laws of fair play and competition.

5. The laws of home life.

6. The civil codes of the golden rule.

7. The seven commands of supreme moral rule.
..........."
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper90.html

so, CL, that was only 35,000 years ago, well before Imhotep and this does not even include the Prince's staff of 100, the original "superhuman" beings to arrive, over 500,000 years ago whom you know as the Nephilim or Annunaki.




[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 08-14-2004).]


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« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2009, 01:37:39 pm »

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  posted 08-16-2004 08:48 AM                       
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Catastrophe,
You provided some interesting links, my friend, but so far nothing really on the makings. The only link I have found yet with pictures of the actual markings happens to be right here:
http://www.rickrichards.com/egypt/Egypt6.htm

Even this does not tell us exactly what position the markings are situated in relation to the pyramid as a whole. In fact, the actual scarcity of such markings on the Internet might well tell us something in itself. If they were truly as authentic as they are claimed to be, why aren't pictures of them more easy to obtain? It would seem to me that would be the easiest way to "make one's case," in addition to allowing more "experts" back there to observe them. As we know, it's closed off to the public!

More things are also clear to me from what I have researched:

* Most of the people defending the idea that the marks are authentic seem to be simply taking others' word for it that they are genuine. They haven't, in fact, seen the markings for themselves. (This also, of course, goes for those claiming them to be forgeries!)

* As I understand it, even though the writings seem to continue behind the stone, no one mentions that the name and sole identication with our favorite pharoah does not.

* Egyptologists have never carbon dated the ochre paint and also seem reluctant to do so (even though it might well prove their case immediately).

* Very few pictures of them appear on the Internet. One would think Zawi would allow Mark Lehner or someone back there to take a bunch of pictures to disprove the forgery theory. Even the ones he's taken in the link I provided don't really tell us anything.

* Alan Alford needs to sell some more books so he can qualify for a toru back there like Graham Hancock did!

 Smiley



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« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2009, 01:06:10 pm »

Catastrophe
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Psycho
From the doernrnburg link posted above:

"Well, if there is really such a mistake in the cartouche, this inscription is without doubt a fake. And then the whole link of this pyramid to Khufu is broken. And archaeology had a big scandal at hand.
Sitchin documents his claim with some drawings. In Stufen zum Kosmos, the German edition of Stairway to Heaven, he shows the pictures on pages 291, 301 and 307. And on these pictures the mistake can clearly be seen. Unfortunately Sitchin gives no source for these drawings. Unfortunately, because they are wrong!!! I coud see this in an 1985 episode of "Arthur C. Clarkes Mysterious World" on the Discovery-Channel, and in the mean time several books containing photos of the cartouche in question have been published (eg. Stadelmann, Die ägyptischen Pyramiden, table 35a, or Mark Lehners The complete Pyramids). On all pictures the first sign looks like it should look: a circle with several horizontal lines in it. It is no "Re" at all! Sitchins main evidence for a fake is a fake itself!"


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« Reply #81 on: August 19, 2009, 01:06:29 pm »

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I have open in front of me "The Complete Pyramids" (Lehner). On page 51 there is a photo of the Khufu cartouche just overlapped by a stone. As far as I am concerned that settles it. Wink




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« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2009, 01:07:02 pm »

bluducky

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   posted 08-17-2004 01:44 AM                       
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something still seems fishy...
(and Photos can very easily be manipulated)

(How much money were YOU payed to say that, Cat?!!)  Smiley

I propose a covert operation. We sneak into the pyramid at midnight, under the cover of darkness, and..... hmmm.... no... I don't think that would work.  Sad

.............................................


On a more serious note: I think I have made reference to the similarities of the words "Khufu" and "Khuti" before, also the fact that "Khufu" means Pyramid.

This word "Khufu" does not have to be the pharaoh Khufu of the 4th dynasty, but could very well mean the pyramid itself, OR, perhaps ANOTHER king Khufu, predating the 4th dynasty.



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« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2009, 01:07:15 pm »

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"This word "Khufu" does not have to be the pharaoh Khufu of the 4th dynasty, but could very well mean the pyramid itself, OR, perhaps ANOTHER king Khufu, predating the 4th dynasty."
or, as I posted above, a priest of the Saite cult of Khufu.



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« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2009, 01:07:29 pm »

 
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Rate Member   posted 08-17-2004 03:46 AM                       
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btw, where do you get this from?
"also the fact that "Khufu" means Pyramid."

In Budge's "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary" (OK I know it is a bit old) for pyramid it gives:

113b aa = tomb, pyramid

217a benben = the stone symbolioc of the Sun-god, obelisk, pyramid

219b berber = pyramid, stone with a pyramidal top

314b mer = pyramid, tomb

and 25a Pyramid of Khufu Aakju-t Khufu = the name of the pyramid of Khufu



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« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2009, 01:08:04 pm »

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Catastrophe,
But does the part that reads "Khufu" overlapped by the stone..? If so, can we, too see the picture..?

Bluducky raises some interesting points, one of which was raised by Mr. Alford: perhaps it is an King Khufu.

It is clear that the matter is far from settled, much as Egyptologists might like it to be!  Smiley


[This message has been edited by Psycho (edited 08-18-2004).]


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« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2009, 01:08:19 pm »

 
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"Moreover, 4th dynasty inscriptions found at Giza confirm that Khufu was building the mastaba fields for his high officials to the west of the Great Pyramid in ‘year 5’ of his reign. Is it really likely that Khufu, having initiated the largest, most complex and innovative pyramid-building project in Egyptian history, would have allowed any work to be carried out in building mastabas? Can we seriously believe that Khufu would have put his great venture at risk by diverting resources to the building of such mastabas in the fifth year of his reign, bearing in mind that he did not know whether he would live long enough to see the completion of his pyramid? The idea is ludicrous. The inscriptions only make sense if the Great Pyramid was already built before the time of Khufu. (As far as I know, I am the first person to have highlighted this anomaly; my thanks to Mark Lehner for mentioning it in his book ‘The Complete Pyramids’.)"
This Alford bloke is really something. I have "The Complete Pyramids" open in front of me at page 109 and it says "Khufu also built ... and cemetaries of mastabas - to the west for his highest officials and to the east for his nearest relatives - all laid out in a systematic, unified fashion." There is no mention of year 5. Anyway, how does building puny structures like those detract from building something as large as the pyramid. They could have taken less than a day each (maybe less than an hour each) with that sort of labour force.


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« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2009, 01:08:26 pm »

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Psycho
"But does the part that reads "Khufu" overlapped by the stone..? If so, can we, too see the picture..?"

Look in a library or bookshop. Page 51. It looks like only the very edge of the cartouche is hidden.



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« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2009, 01:08:37 pm »

 
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  posted 08-18-2004 10:56 AM                       
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Cat,
are you familiar with this place?
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/index.htm
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« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2009, 01:08:55 pm »

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Catastrophe,
I agree with you, Mr. Alan Alford isn't much of an expert, but then neither is Mr. Graham Hancock for that matter either and we seem to be quoting him, too. How many years does traditional Egyptology credit for the labor that went into building the Great Pyramid? {If you know, please tell me). I'm thinking twenty, but can't remember where I heard that. At any rate, it seems as if he is definitely credited with building a lot of mastabas. It would make just as much sense for him to build mastabas around an existing structure then design a whole complex.


quote:
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Look in a library or bookshop. Page 51. It looks like only the very edge of the cartouche is hidden.
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I must admit to being confused by this quote of yours. If "only the very edge of the cartouche is hidden" wouldn't that mean that the marks stand more of a chance of being a forgery than not? Then again, I haven't had the time to search out the picture yet!

We should still carbon date the ochre paint! Do you know if anyone has ever tried that yet..?

  Wink



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