Inventory Stela

[Psycho]

Anteros

Member
Member # 1984

Member Rated:
   posted 08-10-2004 05:51 PM                       
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Peter said:

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Anteros, I lurk in these forums because I've been here for over 5 years and at one time I was a member of the fringe community. At one time I believed in the hall of records, Atlantis, the readings of Cayce, and all that stuff. I began to shift my position around 2000. So, I'm here because I have been. Check out my profile.
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Ahhh... another one bites the dust. You used to believe (or you want to believe, as the poster says) so you went away to "educate" yourself on your passion and they educated the common sense right out of you, eh?

So sorry.

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain



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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 20

[Psycho]

 
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 08-10-2004 09:17 PM                       
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Psycho,
It appears that Imhotep was the builder of the GP.
"The Egyptians very early assembled their municipal deities into an elaborate national system of gods. They developed an extensive theology and had an equally extensive but burdensome priesthood. Several different leaders sought to revive the remnants of the early religious teachings of the Sethites, but these endeavors were short-lived. The Andites built the first stone structures in Egypt. The first and most exquisite of the stone pyramids was erected by Imhotep, an Andite architectural genius, while serving as prime minister. Previous buildings had been constructed of brick, and while many stone structures had been erected in different parts of the world, this was the first in Egypt. But the art of building steadily declined from the days of this great architect."

http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper80.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper80.html&line=106#mfs



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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 
 

[Psycho]

Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-11-2004 12:33 AM                       
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Psycho
"He found the House of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramid,"

Mistress of the Pyramid was not in use in Dyn. IV.



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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002

[Psycho]

 
Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-11-2004 12:41 AM                       
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Psycho
I would like the source of this please.

"The same ochre paint present in Egypt in both the 1800's and in ancient times alone casts some doubt for me."

As a chemist this would not surprise me if it were true. Paint consists of a pigment (often the same for thousands of years) and a binder. The binder is often a natural oil and, again, might be the same for thousands of years e.g., olive oil.

Now if you said mid 20th century that would be different as you would have polymeric binders and all sorts.

Please, I would like the background of this claim.



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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002  |
 

[Psycho]

Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-11-2004 12:47 AM                       
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Psycho
Here is an interesting link:
http://www.doernenburg.alien.de/alternativ/pyramide/pyr03_e.php


"But there are clear signs, that the inscriptions COULD not be fakes, even in the first report by Perring. On the same table where "Khufu" can be found (table VII, "North Side") we find the cartouche shown on the left (90° turned). This is clearly the end of a Khufu-cartouche - vanishing behind the heavy floor blocks. Those and other inscriptions can be traced into the cracks and joints of the walls, they are written in places where no faker of the world could write. The only way to put the inscriptions there would be by lifting the up to 70 t heavy floor blocks, scribbling the fakes and putting the blocks back into position - impossible!"


[This message has been edited by Catastrophe (edited 08-11-2004).]


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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002   

[Psycho]

Tom Hebert
Member
Member # 999

  posted 08-11-2004 06:18 AM                       
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Cat,
Thanks for the quotation, but this is yet another example of the orthodox crowd using Graham Han**** as their authority! Could anything be more absurd?

Tom



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Posts: 813 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Jun 200

[Psycho]

 
Psycho

Member
Member # 2035

  posted 08-11-2004 09:01 AM                       
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Catastrophe,
Here is the complete quote, which hails from the Joseph Jochmans article, "How old are the pyramids?" posted at Atlantis Rising:
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue8/ar8pyramids.html


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These quarry inscriptions took the form of hieroglyphs daubed on the building blocks with a red paint, and had been used by the builders of the Old Kingdom as directions for where the blocks were to be placed. A number of modern researchers now suspect that, in the battle for archaeological oneupman-ship, Col. Howard-Vyse sought to overshadow Caviglia, and gain renewed support for his own projects, with a similar but more spectacular "discovery," by imitating these quarry inscriptions inside the Great Pyramid itself. Forging such inscriptions would have been fairly easy, since the Arabs still use similar red ochre paint, called moghrah, that is indistinguishable from that of the ancients.
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We must also remember that no one is advocating that the Inventory Stela was created at the time of the pyramids, but was perhaps a translation of an earlier work. People keep calling it a forgery! Lost in this is that fact that the Egyptians were rather tidy keepers of records and that this seems to have been yet another one.

Now, if it were a nineteenth century forgery such as some certain inscriptions I know of, we might be onto something...


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The only way to put the inscriptions there would be by lifting the up to 70 t heavy floor blocks, scribbling the fakes and putting the blocks back into position - impossible!"
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Were the pharoahs in the habit of displaying their markings in such a surreptitious fashion? Had I built the Great Pyramid ane been the pharoah at the time, believe me, my name would have been all over it! 



Can one carbon date ochre paint, and have they..?


[This message has been edited by Psycho (edited 08-11-2004).]


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Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2004   
 

[Psycho]

Psycho

Member
Member # 2035

  posted 08-11-2004 09:29 AM                       
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Absonite,
I, too, have heard the Imhotep was the architect of the Great Pyramid which would place them in the current conventional time frame. Certainly, that is not what I am advocating at the present time. On a lighter note, [/i]isn't he the same guy from the Mummy movies..?

Anteros,

I suspect in Peter we have a man who, like Moses, has spent many long years wandering through the desert, perhaps desperate to still find some proof still of the lost continent of Atlantis. That is why he still strolls the shadow-laden hallways of what conventional researchers continue to label "pseudo-science." Perhaps we shall give him some.

 

[This message has been edited by Psycho (edited 08-11-2004).]


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Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2004

[Psycho]

Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-11-2004 11:27 AM                       
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Tom
"but this is yet another example of the orthodox crowd using Graham Han**** as their authority! Could anything be more absurd?"

I disagree actually. They don't listen to the experts but, sadly, will listen to others such as GH. They are not using him as their authority. He is correcting a mistake he made (believing Sitchin). They may point this out because it may help others who also believed Sitchin uncritically.





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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002   

[Psycho]

Tom Hebert
Member
Member # 999

  posted 08-11-2004 11:48 AM                       
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Who is "they"? Do you mean Psycho and myself? I do not know enough about Sitchin to be a fan of his. Is GH a fan of his?
Let me make it clear that I am not a proponent or debunker of the forgery issue. In other words, I do not regard it as an open-and-shut issue. Also, I have to resign myself to the possibility that we may never discover the truth. 

Tom



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Posts: 813 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2002   

[Psycho]

TomB

Member
Member # 482

Rate Member   posted 08-11-2004 01:15 PM                       
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Tom:

quote:
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Thanks for the quotation, but this is yet another example of the orthodox crowd using Graham Han**** as their authority! Could anything be more absurd?

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No, they aren't using Han**** as their authority. He has little relative credibility with them on these matters. (Which, by the way is different than integrity.)
But Han**** is seen as credible and (perhaps more importantly) having integrity within the alternative camp. This camp assigns little integrity to Hawas or other mainstream Egyptologists. There is nothing Hawas or any other Egyptologist could say that wouldn't be called a lie because those in the alternative crowd don't trust them. So, if they are going to attempt to reach out and communicate with the alternative crowd, they have to do so with direct evidence. The best way to do this is to make the case to someone the alternative crowd regards as having integrity.

So it's not that they regard Han**** as credible. Rather it's that the alternative crowd trusts Han****'s integrity.

-Tom


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Posts: 3240 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2001   

[Psycho]

Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 08-11-2004 08:58 PM                       
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Psycho
yes he was in the 2 mummy movies.
so, i have a question, since urantia says that "The first and most exquisite of the stone pyramids was erected by Imhotep, an Andite architectural genius, while serving as prime minister."
and also
"But the art of building steadily declined from the days of this great architect."
and the following reference which I found says that he built the step pyramid and doesn't mention the great pyramid and I have no question that the urantia material is the most accurate available then it brings up the question of is urantia referring to the Cheops or the Step pyramid when they say the first and most exquisite. I have been under the impression that the GP of Cheops was the most exquisite of all. If in fact they are referring to the GP and that the "art of building steadily declined from the days of this great architect." what is the truth and implication that one draws from this?


Imhotep

"Imhotep" is a name which means "He who comes in peace." He is considered by many historians as the world's first multi-genius. He was revered in the ancient world as a poet, philosopher, physician, and astronomer. But he is best remembered as the creator of the first pyramid, the step pyramid, which after 4,700 years still stands near the Nile River at a town called Saqqara.

Imhotep was the prime minister and chief scribe of the Pharaoh Zoser. The pyramid was erected for the Pharaoh. This pyramid was the first man-made structure that used hewn stone as the building material and Imhotep is credited as the "inventor of the art of building with stone."

The pyramid does not stand alone. It is part of a series of structures within a wall thirty feet tall enclosing more than a square mile. Within this wall leading to the pyramid are forty huge columns of stone, the forms which the Greeks copied two thousand years later. The forty columns are believed to represent the forty provinces of ancient Kemet, the name which Egypt was originally called. The step pyramid consists of six steps which are believed to symbolize the ascent of the dead Pharaoh to the sun. The pyramid stands more than twenty stories high and is the world's first skyscraper. Originally it was covered over with polished limestone that travelers could see miles away gleaming in the sun.

Imhotep was also the world's first scientific man of medicine. He is credited with recording more than five hundred cures for illnesses. More than 2,000 years after his death, a Greek physician named Hippocrates, after studying his cures and methods, gave Imhotep the name of the god of medicine "Asclepias," and placed him within the Hippocratic oath. The Greeks, after learning much from the Africans in many fields of learning told the world that they, the Greeks, were the originators of everything. They called Hippocrates the "Father of Medicine," even though he was born 2,000 years Imhotep. In his book Evolution of Modern Medicine, Sir William Osler refers to Imhotep as "the first figure of a physician to stand out clearly from the mists of antiquity." His images graced the first Temple of Imhotep, mankind's first hospital. Sufferers from all the world for peace, prayer, and healing came to this hospital.
http://www.websn.com/Pride/Pride/imhotep.htm


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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   

[Psycho]

Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-12-2004 12:24 AM                       
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"but this is yet another example of the orthodox crowd using Graham Han**** as their authority! Could anything be more absurd?"
I disagree actually. They (the alternos) don't listen to the experts but, sadly, will listen to others such as GH. They (the orthos) are not using him as their authority. He (GH) is correcting a mistake he made (believing Sitchin). They (the orthos) may point this out because it may help others (alternos) who also believed Sitchin uncritically.





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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 

[Psycho]

Catastrophe
Member
Member # 894

Rate Member   posted 08-12-2004 12:27 AM                       
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Tom
"So it's not that they regard Han**** as credible. Rather it's that the alternative crowd trusts Han****'s integrity"

Didn't we say much the same?


[This message has been edited by Catastrophe (edited 08-12-2004).]


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Posts: 3324 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002   

[Psycho]

TomB

Member
Member # 482

Rate Member   posted 08-12-2004 07:52 AM                       
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Didn't we say much the same?

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Yup.
I replied before I scrolled down all the way.
-Tom


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Posts: 3240 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2001