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the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)

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Carolyn Silver
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« Reply #135 on: August 11, 2008, 02:21:21 am »

I_am_that_I_am

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It was late last night when I posted, and may have confused him with someone else.....Brain still not working so good

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KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.  Smiley
E.C.

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« Reply #136 on: August 11, 2008, 02:21:34 am »

nekozuki

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The flooded cities of the Mediterranean might be the Osirian civilizations not Atlantis. The Osirians are another lost civilization mystery. I believe there is information about them on about.com and they flourished the time as Atlantis.

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" Om Vasudevaya Namaha!"
With loving reverence, I bow to Lord Vishnu!

"Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is." - Lord Krishna, Bhagavad Gita

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« Reply #137 on: August 11, 2008, 02:21:55 am »

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Deep-Sea Soundings

In the first place, then, the testimony of the deep-sea soundings may be summarized in a few words. Thanks chiefly to the expeditions of the British and American gun boats, "Challenger" and "Dolphin" (though Germany also was associated in this scientific exploration) the bed of the whole Atlantic Ocean is now mapped out, with the result that an immense bank or ridge of great elevation is shown to exist in mid-Atlantic. This ridge stretches in a southwesterly direction from about fifty degrees north towards the coast of South America, then in a south-easterly direction towards the coast of Africa, changing its direction again about Ascension Island, and running due south to Tristan d'Acunha. The ridge rises almost sheer about 9,000 feet from the ocean depths around it, while the Azores, St. Paul, Ascension, and Tristan d'Acunha are the peaks of this land which still remain above water. A line of 3,500 fathoms, or say 21,000 feet, is required to sound the deepest parts of the Atlantic, but the higher parts of the ridge are only a hundred to a few hundred fathoms beneath the sea.
The soundings too showed that the ridge is covered with volcanic debris of which traces are to be found right across the ocean to the American coasts. Indeed the fact that the ocean bed, particularly about the Azores, has been the scene of volcanic disturbance on a gigantic scale, and that too within a quite measurable period of geologic time, is conclusively proved by the investigations made during the above-named expeditions.

Mr. Starkie Gardner is of opinion that in the Eocene times the British Islands formed part of a larger island or continent stretching into the Atlantic, and "that a great tract of land formerly existed where the sea now is, and that Cornwall, the Scilly and Channel Islands, Ireland and Brittany are the remains of its highest summits." (Pop. Sc. Review, July, 1878.)


Distribution of Fauna and Flora
The proved existence on continents separated by great oceans of similar or identical species of fauna and flora is the standing puzzle to biologists and botanists alike. But if a link between these continents once existed allowing for the natural migration of such animals and plants, the puzzle is solved. Now the fossil remains of the camel are found in India, Africa, South America and Kansas: but it is one of the generally accepted hypotheses of naturalists that every species of animal and plant originated in but one part of the globe, from which centre it gradually overran the other portions. How then can the facts of such fossil remains be accounted for without the existence of land communication in some remote age? Recent discoveries in the fossil beds of Nebraska seem also to prove that the horse originated in the Western Hemisphere, for that is the only part of the world where fossil remains have been discovered, showing the various intermediate forms which have been identified as the precursors of the true horse. It would therefore be difficult to account for the presence of the horse in Europe except on the hypothesis of continuous land communication between the two continents, seeing that it is certain that the horse existed in a wild state in Europe and Asia before his domestication by man, which may be traced back almost to the stone age. Cattle and sheep as we now know them have an equally remote ancestry. Darwin finds domesticated cattle in Europe in the earliest part of the stone age, having long before developed out of wild forms akin to the buffalo of America. Remains of the cave-lion of Europe are also found in North America.

Turning now from the animal to the vegetable kingdom it appears that the greater part of the flora of the Miocene age in Europe -- found chiefly in the fossil beds of Switzerland -- exist at the present day in America, some of them in Africa. But the noteworthy fact about America is that while the greater proportion are to be found in the Eastern States, very many are wanting on the Pacific coast. This seems to show that it was from the Atlantic side that they entered the continent. Professor Asa Gray says that out of 66 genera and 155 species found in the forest east of the Rocky Mountains, only 31 genera and 78 species are found west of these heights.

But the greatest problem of all is the plantain or banana. Professor Kuntze, an eminent German botanist, asks, "In what way was this plant" (a native of tropical Asia and Africa) "which cannot stand a voyage through the temperate zone, carried to America?" As he points out, the plant is seedless, it cannot be propagated by cuttings, neither has it a tuber which could be easily transported. Its root is treelike. To transport it special care would be required, nor could it stand a long transit. The only way in which he can account for its appearance in America is to suppose that it must have been transported by civilized man at a time when the polar regions had a tropical climate! He adds, "a cultivated plant which does not possess seeds must have been under culture for a very long period... it is perhaps fair to infer that these plants were cultivated as early as the beginning of the Diluvial period." Why, it may be asked, should not this inference take us back to still earlier times, and where did the civilization necessary for the plant's cultivation exist, or the climate and circumstances requisite for its transportation, unless there were at some time a link between the old world and the new?

Professor Wallace in his delightful Island Life, as well as other writers in many important works, has put forward ingenious hypotheses to account for the identity of flora and fauna on widely separated lands, and for their transit across the ocean, but all are unconvincing, and all break down at different points.

It is well known that wheat as we know it has never existed in a truly wild state, nor is there any evidence tracing its descent from fossil species. Five varieties of wheat were already cultivated in Europe in the stone age -- one variety found in the "Lake Dwellings" being known as Egyptian wheat, from which Darwin argues that the Lake dwellers "either still kept up commercial intercourse with some southern people, or had originally proceeded as colonists from the South." He concludes that wheat, barley, oats, etc., are descended from various species now extinct, or so widely different as to escape identification, in which case he says: "Man must have cultivated cereals from an enormously remote period." The regions where these extinct species flourished, and the civilization under which they were cultivated by intelligent selection, are both supplied by the lost continent whose colonists carried them east and west.

http://www.erbzine.com/mag11/1121.html#1896c
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« Reply #138 on: August 11, 2008, 02:23:13 am »

 
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Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #139 on: August 11, 2008, 02:27:12 am »

15. Magnetic Reversals and Moving Continents

Index

8. Oersted & Ampére

9. The Lodestone

10. Gauss

11. The Magnetic Sun

12. Fluid Dynamos

13. Dynamo in the
Earth's Core

14. Magnetometers and
Tobacco Smoking

15. Magnetic Reversals
& Moving Continents

16. The Magnetosphere

17. Magnetic Planets Continents and Oceans

If you tabulate the elevations of all parts of the globe--including the ones covered by water--an interesting fact emerges. Those elevations--it turns out--are not smoothly distributed, but tend to cluster in one of two neighborhoods.
Most dry land has a modest elevation above sea level, while most of the ocean floor is about 3 kilometers (or 2 miles) lower down. The area of in-between depths, e.g. where the ocean is about 1 kilometer deep, is much less. An atlas will show that in the oceans around the continental US, for instance, for a certain distance from land the depth slowly increases, but then the sea-bottom plunges down steeply to the lower level, where it stays.

What does this mean? It means that the surface of the Earth is not a single terrain, varying smoothly, part of which happens to stick out above water. Rather, its regions belong to one of two types. The oceans tend to be uniformly deep, while the continents are separate chunks, thick enough to rise above water (or, at their edges, be covered by shallow seas).



Alfred Wegener
Continental Drift
Alfred Wegener, a German arctic explorer and geophysicist who lived in the early 1900s, was struck by the resemblance between the continents and ice-floes in the arctic oceans, resulting from the break-up of sheets of floating sea-ice. Just as ice-floes which have broken apart match along the line of break, so did the edges of some continents match, e.g. Africa and South America. Maybe those land masses, too, used to be together?
Wegener found other corresponding matches, e.g. between rock formations along matching edges, and in 1918 he proposed his theory of "continental drift"--that continents, like ice floes, drifted from one location to another. He believed the continents floated on deeper layers below them, which over millions of years gave way like a thick fluid and made the drift possible. The energy source was supposedly the internal heat of the Earth.

Wegener's idea encountered enormous resistance from established geophysicists. Sir Harold Jeffreys in Britain, in particular, pointed out that the deeper layers were not nearly fluid enough and would strongly resist the proposed motion. After Wegener died on an arctic expedition in 1930, only a handful of loyal supporters continued to promote his ideas. More evidence was needed, and it came from the Earth's magnetism.


Magnetic Reversals
After molten lava emerges from a volcano, it solidifies to a rock. In most cases it is a black rock known as basalt, which is faintly magnetic, like iron emerging from a melt--for which Gilbert already noticed a similar process. Its magnetization is in the direction of the local magnetic force at the time when it cools down.
Instruments can measure the magnetization of basalt. Therefore, if a volcano has produced many lava flows over a past period, scientists can analyze the magnetizations of the various flows and from them get an idea on how the direction of the local Earth's field varied in the past. Surprisingly, this procedure suggested that times existed when the magnetization had the opposite direction from today's. All sorts of explanation were proposed, but in the end the only one which passed all tests was that in the distant past, indeed, the magnetic polarity of the Earth was sometimes reversed.

Please Note: This web site regularly receives questions about reversals. Do they pose a danger to life on Earth? Is one due soon? How quickly do they take place? Click here to bring up four of those questions, with their answers.




Ocean Floor Magnetism

Mid-Atlantic Ridge
In the 1950s electronic magnetometers were developed. Unlike the older instruments, based on the compass needle, these could be towed behind an airplane or a ship. Oil companies were soon using them aboard airplanes, mapping the weak magnetism of rocks to help locate oil deposits. On land, the patterns of this magnetism seemed jumbled, with no meaningful order.
Extending those measurements to the oceans, around 1960, revealed a surprising difference. In the ocean floor the magnetization was orderly, arranged in long strips. The strips on the Atlantic ocean floor, in particular, all seemed parallel to the "mid-Atlantic ridge." That is a volcanic ridge running roughly north-to-south (with some zigs and zags), halfway between Europe-Africa and America. It is marked by the focus-points of earthquakes and by some volcanic islands, and more recently it was explored by research submarines, which have at times observed lava oozing out at its crest.


Ocean floor magnetization (USGS figure)




Not only were the magnetic strips lined-up with the central ridge, but their structure and distribution seemed remarkably symmetric on both sides: if (say) a narrow-wide pair of strips was observed at a certain distance east of the ridge, its mirror image was also found at about the same distance to the west.

Sea-Floor Spreading
This puzzling picture was explained in 1962 by Lawrence Morley (whose article was rejected by the journals as too speculative) and by Drummond Matthews and Fred Vine. They all proposed that the sea floor was in constant motion, pulling away from the central ridge at a rate of about one inch (2.5 cm) per year.
As the "plates" on each side are pulled away, lava emerges from the middle, solidifies and "records" the prevailing magnetic field. The newly formed basalt sticks to the plates and is also pulled away--some of it towards Europe and Africa, some towards America. Every half million years, on the average, the Earth's magnetic polarity reverses, and so does the magnetization of the ocean floor. Each strip therefore represents an epoch of one or the other magnetic polarity, and the symmetry is also explained. It is as if the sea-floor was a giant tape recorder, with twin tapes emerging from the mid-Atlantic ridge, recording the Earth's magnetism at the time they emerge and then traveling in opposite directions. Similar magnetic strips were also observed in all other oceans.


Sea-floor spreading (USGS figure)



If the sea-floor was moving, then continents adjoining them might share that motion, just as Wegener had guessed. The main difference now seems to be that rather than pushing their way through a semi-fluid on which they float, the continents (or some of them) ride on top of "conveyer belts" in that fluid. These are the "plates" which emerge at mid-ocean and go down again (at least in some cases) at the deep oceanic trenches, like the ones found near Japan or in the Caribbean Sea.
The science of the shaping of the Earth's crust goes by the name "tectonics," and the process described here is the essence of "plate tectonics" by the Earth's crust consists of distinct plates which are continually rearranged, sometimes carrying along continents or parts of continents. The entire motion is indeed driven by the Earth's internal heat.

The Pacific plate bordering California, for instance, is slowly rotating, moving northwards. The edge of California is attached to that plate and also moves northwards, but the bulk of the continent does not. The juncture between the two, where one slips by the other, follows in part the famous San Andreas fault.


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Next Stop: 16. The Magnetosphere


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Further Reading
In 1996 the US Geological Survey (USGS) published a book "This Dynamic Earth" by W. Jacquelyne Kious and Robert I Tilling. This book, in its entirety, is on the web, and can be accessed here. In clear language with many illustrations (including the ones shown above), it tells the story of plate tectonics much more completely than could be done here. One of its many interesting sections describes the life and work of Alfred L. Wegener.
For geophysicists only:"Brunhes' Research Revisited: Magnetization of Volcanic Flows and Baked Clays," by Carlo Laj, Catherine Kisel and Hervé Guillou, Eos (Transactions of Amer. Geophysical Union), 27 August 2002


http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/reversal.htm
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« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2008, 02:31:29 am »

A Conversation with David Childress

"Maverick archaeologist and explorer David Hatcher Childress has combed the Indian Ocean, Australia and the Pacific in search of the astonishing truth about mankind's past." The author of Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean shares his insights about lost civilizations.

The very readable book, Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean, illustrated with stunning photographs, grabbed our attention. The author, an archaeologist, explorer and world traveler speaks with us about many subjects related to his studies and explorations of lost civilizations.

The Monthly Aspectarian: David, I'm almost through your Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean. Fascinating stuff. How did all this start for you?

David Childress: I got started at an early age. My parents, who are Americans, liked to travel and I was born in France. I was fortunate when I was younger that I got to go to a lot of places in Europe, Greece and Turkey and to Mexico and Hawaii. I've always been interested in history and mysteries of the past, which included Atlantis.

When I was nineteen and studying at the University of Montana. I had the opportunity to go to Taiwan as an English teacher. Then I headed for Nepal and the Himalayas and India and across Asia. I was in Afghanistan, and then through the Middle East, through Syria and Jordan to Israel. I worked in Israel for a while on a kibbutz. Eventually I went to Egypt. I'd always wanted to see the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx. This is all back in the late '70s.

Eventually I traveled through Africa for two and a half years and returned to India and then to China where I became one of the first tourists ever to travel around on my own. I returned to the U.S., where I started writing my books. The first book was called A Hitchhiker's Guide and Africa and Arabia. Then after that was my first lost cities book, which was called Lost Cities of China, Central Asia and India.

TMA: Why do you suppose mainstream archaeology, seemingly on purpose, suppresses information of civilizations older than Egypt and Mesopotamia?

DHC: Mainstream archaeology does have a resistance -- it's very conservative -- a resistance to civilization being a lot older than that. They have a resistance to man being in the Americas for any great extended period of time. Mainstream science says mankind has only been in the Americas since the last Ice Age, about 12,000 BC. But that date is continually being pushed back and many scientists in North and South America place mankind already in America 30, 40, 50 thousand, even 70 or 100 thousand BC. It's increasingly difficult for the mainstream to resist this, so slowly they are pushed back. Mainstream archaeology is now going to the oldest ruins in the world, the giant ruins in Malta. They say they're older than the Egyptian ruins.

TMA: So they are admitting that.

DHC: Yes, although they're saying that those ruins on Malta are 9,000 years old or so. Other geologists are saying that the Sphinx is over 10,000 years old, but the mainstream really hasn't acknowledged that yet.

TMA: The Sphinx is lined up with the Age of Leo, which makes it 12,000 to 14,000 years ago. I think that's fairly well established. It's obvious that that's water erosion on the body of the Sphinx..

DHC: Mainstream archaeologists still won't admit that. The tunnel system beneath the pyramids is pretty interesting, really.

TMA: Do you believe there's a Hall of Records hidden in the Great Pyramid and that we're going to find it and all the history is going to be laid out for us?

DHC: I do. There's a Hall of Records maybe underground in the Giza Plateau or beneath the Sphinx or possibly under the Pyramid . . . yes, I do believe that, and perhaps the Egyptian government is on the right track, going into those tunnels. In my books I write quite a bit about secret libraries and time capsules from ancient civilizations. Some of them have actually been found. Never this Hall of Records, though, that Edgar Cayce mentions, but the Cayce Foundation is spending millions of dollars trying to find it.

TMA: It has always seemed to me that one of the greatest crimes in recorded history was the burning of the library at Alexandria.

DHC: Yes, that's right. That's exactly the thing to keep in mind. Giant libraries full of important knowledge are just torched and destroyed. The same thing happened with the Emperor Chi Wong Ti of China. He ordered every book in China destroyed in 500 BC. This is the guy who built the Great Wall of China, and has that tomb with all the terra cotta warriors.

TMA: What goes on in these people's minds that they want to destroy the past?

DHC: What happens is that you have dictators, despots who want history to start with them. The past has been destroyed many times over. There are many countries where the past is wiped out and history starts again. The Catholics and the Spanish tried to do it in Central America.

TMA: Most recently, the Cambodians.

DHC: Yes, in Cambodia, too, where anybody, even people who could read and write and knew different languages -- they were all just taken out and killed. I just came back from Cambodia, as a matter of fact.

TMA: It's always been pretty obvious to me that the first parts of Genesis are a collection of older stories. What could the Tower of Babel possibly be but an advanced civilization that had something like the Internet.

DHC: That's a good analogy. I believe they used electricity in the past and they had flight. And they had horrific weapons like we do. The ancient Indian epics read like wild science fiction. People flying around in their airships blasting each other. Sumeria, for instance, I believe, was basically just an outpost of ancient India. Ancient India is said to go back 10, 20, 30 thousand years.

TMA: Doesn't mainstream anthropology tell us that 40,000 to 10,000 years ago the Cro-Magnon emerged? Who were these people 100,000 years ago if modern man emerged only 10 to 40,000 years ago?

DHC: It's believed by some anthropologists that the Neanderthal man still exists as the yeti and the wild men of Central Asia and other remote places; that small bands of Neanderthals still exist.

TMA: If they're there, what else could they be?

DHC: It has to be that the past is cyclical, and that history is cyclical. Modern scientists, modern historians, say, "Well, here's a graph. The cave man is down here." Then they draw a straight line up to the top corner of the graph, where modern man came in. But that's not history. History is this roller coaster of ups and downs and ages of science and knowledge crashing and then a dark age, and a stone age between these ages.

TMA: What in nature doesn't have its cycles.

DHC: Yes, right. In the story of Atlantis, too. It's a world before our own, a world like ours, one of certain sciences and knowledge of the world. They had mapped the world as round.

TMA: Some things are so obvious -- like the Nazca lines -- what are they if not to be seen from the air?

DHC: Yes, I think the Nazca lines are a lot of things together, actually. Some of the lines are crossed over. Some Nazca lines go for hundreds, even thousands of miles through the mountains, perfectly straight. They just take off. And they go over cliffs and knolls, places where you wouldn't be able to walk.

TMA: This doesn't seem to be a threat anymore, but if there were to have been full-scale nuclear exchange between us and the Soviets and technology was completely wiped out, if there was nuclear winter and there were only a few million survivors scattered around the world, how many generations would it take before our technology became mythology? In three or four generations, it would all be forgotten.

DHC: Yes, that's right.

TMA: So it could happen.

DHC: Things as obvious as leaving your car out in the field -- it's not going to last that long. It'll rust away, oxidize, and wandering tribes will take it apart and hammer it into spearheads. This happens today in Africa. It's not like it's going to sit there for hundreds or thousands of years for someone to come along and go, "Wow, they had Mercedes back then." Rather, it will just be the myths and tales from that era.

TMA: It's always seemed to me that the Great Pyramid in particular was built as a signal, as a beacon to the future. As a "Hey, look what we did. Obviously, we must have known something."

DHC: There are certain things, particularly the Great Pyramid, giant stone walls in Peru, [other artifacts] around the world, they're just sitting there in silent testimony of some advanced ancient civilization that built on a grand scale. They built with blocks of stone the size of semi trucks, and put them perfectly together and made buildings to last for thousands of years. And those buildings have lasted for thousands of years.

TMA: Engineering feats that we can't equal today. How did they cut those stones!

DHC: There are certain places around the world today that modern engineering and construction companies couldn't reproduce.

TMA: We don't have a crane big enough to move those stones.

DHC: That's right. And place them together -- even to hire a modern contractor to build something like the Great Pyramid would be such a huge undertaking that who would even do it.

TMA: One thing that does trouble me is how do we lose what we have? I understand how it can happen when there's a huge disaster, but those who built the pyramids knew more than the later Egyptians. How does that happen?

DHC: You've got to look at Egypt from a proper point of view. The Egyptian civilization lasted for thousands of years. The way we look back at ancient Greece and Rome today was how they looked back at ancient Egypt. As this remote, ancient civilization that lasted for thousands of years. They were children of this ancient civilization -- and over those thousands of years of time and history, Egypt had its ups and downs. Religious wars were fought, there were invaders who came in and took over the country or sacked it, there was a lot of intrigue within the country and there would have been, naturally, times of drought and environmental changes that would affect them. Egypt was kind of like Japan a couple hundred years ago, and China similarly, in that it tried to isolate itself from other parts of the world; they deemed themselves as more cultured and civilized than other countries who were considered barbarians.

TMA: We're used to this paradigm of progress -- as you said, that straight line between the cave man and where we are now. I think that is what makes it difficult to comprehend that the early Egyptians knew so much more than the later Egyptians. It's just hard to comprehend the loss of information when we're so used to the constant expansion of it.

DHC: It's also happened in Europe during the dark ages. The Greeks and the Romans had highly developed sciences. They knew steam engines and they had big libraries of books. They knew the world was round and we have even computers from that time like the device that's in the Athens museum today. But then a dark age hit Europe and science was lost, books were destroyed. The Catholic church suppressed science, basically. They were very much anti-technology. They didn't want people to read and write. The priests would do that for them. They didn't want people to have a book and read it for themselves. They wanted books to be hand copied by their monks in Latin that only they could read. So, how do you explain that? Well, it was like a forced dark age that was pressed upon at least the European world.

The past had its ecological disasters as well. And as you know, the history of the world is one of invasion and counter invasion, and giant migrations of people. It went on constantly here in the Americas even before Europeans got here.

The story of Atlantis and the story of ancient Egypt and the story of the Americas, like what the Hopi Indians say, is that warfare has gone on for many, many thousands of years. It didn't just start 6,000 years ago or something, it went on 10, 20, 30 thousand years ago. In fact, that's part of the story of Atlantis, of Atlantis fighting this war with the Mediterraneans.

TMA: The Osirian culture?

DHC: Yes, I would say like that culture and its sunken cities . . . that's part of the story of Atlantis, this big war between Atlantis and ancient Greece, pre-Greece, like the Osirians.

TMA: What's your best guess as to where Atlantis was?

DHC: I'm a traditionalist when it comes to Atlantis and I believe that like Plato said, Atlantis was out in the Atlantic ocean. I tend to think that the mid-Atlantic ridge which the Azore islands are part of, was Atlantis, and Atlantis is below the ocean. Look at northern Atlantis, called Atlan, which was around Holland and Brittany and France, there's quite a bit of evidence for sunken cities there, plus some evidence around the Canary Islands and even around Florida, Bimini, those giant stones.

TMA: When Atlantis went down, that would have been the flooding of the Mediterranean, yes?

DHC: That's what I think, and that's what happened to Malta and other areas. When Atlantis sank, there was this giant tidal wave that basically washed through the Mediterranean valley, which was a Dead Sea or Death Valley kind of place but with lakes in it. But the entire Mediterranean was flooded at that time, which flooded all the coastal areas. I would make that around 10,000 BC, the end of the last Ice Age.

TMA: Then the Sphinx would already be there.

DHC: Yes, and certain ruins in Egypt were already there. That's what I call pre-dynastic ruins. There's a number of them in Egypt and other places.

TMA: If a giant wave flooded the Mediterranean, wouldn't there be some evidence for it going west as well?

DHC: You bet. We have areas at that same time in Mexico and the United States that were inundated and destroyed. There are Mayan glyphs showing that. We have the mystery of the Olmac people down in the Tabasco area of Mexico -- we have these giant, giant heads in these swamps. It may take something like bulldozers to go in and dig these out of the swamps. So yes, it would definitely would have been on both sides of the world. And as you know, cataclysmic earth changes happen fairly regularly.

TMA: Well, we know about the crater in the Yucatan, so we know that things do happen occasionally!

I'm curious about Rock Lake just up here west of Milwaukee.

DHC: Yes, I've been scuba diving up there. Right around Rock Lake, first of all, is this ancient pyramid site, Pyramid of the Sun and Pyramid of the Moon, just like down in Mexico.

TMA: Are you saying two hours north of Chicago there's a pyramid?

DHC: That's right, it's in southern Wisconsin. There's two large pyramids. It's a state park. These are above water, anybody can go there. Just drive your car, have a picnic . . .

TMA: Constructed by humans. Have they been dated?

DHC: They date them to about 1200 AD as the end of the time [of their construction]. That's when these areas were destroyed.

TMA: What happened?

DHC: Some Siberian invaders came down from Canada and they beseiged cities in Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio and Missouri, in Iowa -- they killed everybody.

TMA: What's in the lake?

DHC: There are these stone pyramids that are like tents. They're in murky, muddy water so it's hard to get good pictures of them. There's little doubt that these are artificial. A lot of people think even the lake was artificially created.

TMA: As for the pyramids that are above water -- are they of cut stone?

DHC: No, they're piled-up stones. They're not really megalithic. It's not like finding something like in Egypt or Stonehenge or South America.

TMA: That's a little less exciting.

DHC: Those pyramids up in Wisconsin are very interesting but they're not in the same class as those in South America.

TMA: It was Christians who burned the library at Alexandria?

DHC: That was a schism that kind of created the Catholic church. It happened right after the Nicene Creed and the Ephesus councils. It was one special Christian group of fanatics who went to the library and burned it. That's when they killed Hypacia. Hypacia was a female mathematician and orator in Alexandria who was also, in a sense the manager of the library. She was torn from her chariot on the streets of Alexandria and killed by a rioting group of people. After killing her, they went and burned the library.

This is still going on today -- where people are afraid of knowledge and want to see books banned. You have that with fundamental Christian movements who are also anti-Catholic in many cases. Anything that's not in the Bible that they keep in their church is heresy and wrong and shouldn't be taught in schools.

TMA: So you believe that there are still Hall of Records level libraries still in existence?

DHC: Yeah, sure.

TMA: Where? Or do we want to tell?

DHC: Well, they're secret, they're underground. I believe in some cases these people are like custodians of these places. The places can be fairly obvious but we don't even see them. You're probably familiar with what they call the secret libraries of the Vatican. Only certain special priests can go down there. Maybe one day we'll all get a chance to see what's really there.

TMA: People talk about libraries that are still in existence in Tibet, but haven't the Chinese destroyed everything?

DHC: Tibet is a huge, vast area and most of Tibet is still remote. There's still plenty of places to hide things. Areas of Tibet would be a great place for your secret headquarters, even today, as long as you have the right kind of technology.

TMA: Are we at the end of a flowering? Or are we going to continue on? Because if this is as far as we get, it seems to me it isn't worth it.

DHC: (laughs) Well, I believe that we are on the edge of a Golden Age but things may well get kind of worse before they get better just because the world does need a certain restructuring. Many nations still cling to what are essentially backward and destructive beliefs. I travel all over the world and when you go to a lot a countries -- just offhand, take Saudi Arabia. We're talking about a nation -- and these are total absolute monarchies, too -- that is amazingly repressive. The kind of rules in that country are just unacceptable even to more conservative Americans. If you're a woman in those kind of countries, you're incredibly oppressed. Women aren't even allowed to drive. It goes beyond that, too, into absolute control by theocracy, of everything you do. You are forced to be part of an oppressive religion. You have no choice. You'll be literally publicly executed if you try to resist. It's horrible. I've traveled pretty much all over, and unfortunately, that's pretty standard for much of the world.

Getting back to these secret societies, you know, people like the Masons or the Knights Templar and like that, no matter what you think of those groups, they created this country. One of the things they made sure of when they created it was that America had separation of church and state and liberties and guaranteed freedoms.

TMA: Unprecedented.

DHC: They're just unheard of in most countries. Your freedom to be super right wing conservative fundamentalist Christian who thinks that any secret society is bad and ought to be banned -- you are totally free to have that opinion.

TMA: Where are we right now and what do you see in the fairly immediate future?

DHC: We're kind of at the end and we're at the beginning, too. I think it's both things.

TMA: We're not talking about the kind of crash that takes us back to the Stone Age?

DHC: I think we have the level of technology now where even though there'll be some kind of a crash, it won't be completely total. It may change the economic systems and the balance of power around the world and even the way people think about their lives. But it's not like the end of the world where we all have to go back and live in caves. In many part of the world it will be like that. It's a paradox of modern civilization.

As an example, you go to New Guinea. You'll have your nice glass of champagne just before you exit a 747 jet into Port Moresby, and then you're faced with a world that's like a Stone Age world. People who live there, they are literally are like cave men who carry clubs around and whack each other whenever they have a chance. They have no concept of what a 747 really is or how it works. You see what I mean? And this is happening right now. Much of the world was a Stone Age world 10,000 years ago but that wasn't everyplace. There were certain pockets of science and technology that existed, just like today.

It's happening today and it happened in the past. All thing cycle around. We are the Atlanteans. We are those people. We're almost repeating what happened in the past.

TMA: Have we learned anything? Are we any less likely to destroy ourselves?

DHC: I believe the point is to learn, and figure out just who we are.

TMA: If we're going to take our place in the galaxy, we're going to have to make our peace on this planet.

DHC: That's right. We have to mature as a planet, and we're doing that, slowly . . . although for a lot of people, it's happening pretty fast.


David Hatcher Childress was born in France, and raised in the mountains of Colorado and Montana. At nineteen, he left the United States on a six-year journey across Asia, Africa and the Pacific. An ardent student of history, archaeology, philosophy and comparative religion, he has authored numerous articles which have appeared in publications around the world. His many books include A Hitchhiker's Guide to Africa & Arabia, Anti-Gravity & the World Grid, Lost Cities & Ancient Mysteries of South America and others.

Currently he travels the globe in search of lost cities and ancient mysteries. He also leads small groups of similarly interested individuals to many of these sites, including some mentioned in Lost Cities of Ancient Lemuria & the Pacific. For more information on Mr. Childress' books and expeditions/tours, please write or call: Adventures Unlimited, Box 22, Stelle, IL 60919; 815/253-6390.

http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/1999/April/499-03.htm

[ 07-23-2006, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Carolyn Silver ]
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« Reply #141 on: August 11, 2008, 02:31:59 am »

 
thegreatone
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i have a hard time believing that antlantis was in fact in the atlantic. i could be wrong but it just doesnt seem logical. if it was in fact there then i think its safe to say we will never find evidence of it. for to sink a continent to the depths of the atlantic sea floor it would take some MAJOR geological events that i doubt would leave a trace of existence.
Also i believe any story told enough times is going to acquire some inaccuracies. i trully believe it was in the mediteranean. maybe the original story was it was protected by the pillars of atlas in stead of it laid beyond.
truthfully we dont know for sure yet but like i said its such an old story and told a million times over so it got to have SOME inaccuracies.

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« Reply #142 on: August 11, 2008, 02:32:00 am »

 
thegreatone
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i have a hard time believing that antlantis was in fact in the atlantic. i could be wrong but it just doesnt seem logical. if it was in fact there then i think its safe to say we will never find evidence of it. for to sink a continent to the depths of the atlantic sea floor it would take some MAJOR geological events that i doubt would leave a trace of existence.
Also i believe any story told enough times is going to acquire some inaccuracies. i trully believe it was in the mediteranean. maybe the original story was it was protected by the pillars of atlas in stead of it laid beyond.
truthfully we dont know for sure yet but like i said its such an old story and told a million times over so it got to have SOME inaccuracies.

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

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« Reply #143 on: August 11, 2008, 02:33:27 am »

Carolyn Silver

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Sure, it existed in the Mid-Atlantic! here have been several reports of underwater ruins in the Atlantic, but they are so deep that they can only be found by submarine. Also, geologist Christian O'Brien has even marked out an area in the Azores that was once above water, an area about the sixe of Spain. Follow the link and you will find some great maps.


quote:
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SURVEY OF ATLANTIS

A brief compilation of evidence to encourage further scientific research and analysis of the issues by specialists to prove or disprove the O'Brien thesis of the recent existence of a large Mid-Atlantis Ridge island centred on the Azores.

INTRODUCTION

Christian O'Brien in Chapter 18 of The Shining Ones features the basic historical and geological evidence which identifies the Azores as the site of the Island of Atlantis. In an outstanding career as exploration geologist he is no stranger to successfully challenging established perceptions and raises the key issue of the deep crustal rifting associated with such flood basalt constructions.

He has produced the survey of the Island, shown within the attached documents taken from Admiralty Charts, which have now been superseded by the more accurate Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map also shown. Further detailed hydrographic input is required in order to present a even clearer picture to allow further studies and the siting for new sediment cores in un-disturbed areas.

The technology needed to prove or disprove the Atlantis issue is now available. Science has reached the point of being able to understand both the creation of' such large structures and the subsequent catastrophic movements in the earths crust, which have destroyed them. Finding and dating the remains of fresh water life at depths of up to 4000 metres, finding coral, sandy beaches and volcanic material below sea level and identifying former river valleys is within reach and we look forward to providing further news on this subject later in the year.

So far this century there has been a confirmed report of a one mile rise in the floor of the ocean 576 miles north of Azores when a trans-atlantic cable broke. Dr David F. Zhirov in 1970 reported sand beaches and coral at a depths of 2 miles south of the Azores. Confirmed evidence exists that sections of the Mid-Atlantic ridge have been above sea level in the past and fresh water diatoms have been found 2 miles down in the Azores area dated 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

Volcanic material described as un-dissolved tachylite was found on Telegraph Bank 500 miles north of Azores, indicating that it had been laid down above sea level at some time between 50,000 BC and 10,000 BC. Sediment core analysis at locations off the coast of Africa have proved a 2 mile sinkage of volcanic island structures similar to those of the Azores.

The more detailed evidence provided by the latest underwater surveys will assist in identify the former glacial sea level, and locating the river canyons of' a large island where rivers Joined the sea before sea levels rose, thus matching the river canyon features of the American, European and African continental shelves.

Open minds are required to concentrate current resources on the many disciplines required to re-create or resolve this mystery which has immense importance to our understanding of human origins and human diffusion. In particular, migrations from Africa to the America's from 60,000 BC.

Important knowledge has been gathered at other sites on flood basalt formations, collapsed volcanic cones, plate tectonics, deep crustal rifting together with the rebound by up to 1km of the thick and old earths crust freed from the weight of glacial ice and the compensatory sinkage of perhaps up to 4km In the fragile young and thin oceananic crustal areas adjacent to major active fault zones.

The Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map, contoured in metres, shows the islands of the Azores as the volcanic peaks of the worlds greatest Mountain range. The area is bounded on the west by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rift valley fault, to the north by the Kurchatov Fracture Zone, on the east by deep ocean, and on the whole southern flank by the massive and deep East Azores Fracture Zone. Here we can see the three major tectonic plates which converge in this fragile crustal area, making it perhaps the most unstable structure on the planet.

There is no doubt that world sea levels have risen on average some 400 feet since the maximum influence of the Ice Age, although the identification of shore lines at this date around 16,500 BC must be considered in the light of much greater compensatory movements in the earths crust and other factors. Certainly a large island at this latitude would have been a suitable glacial refuge for plants, animals and man, during a highly inhospitable, cold and extremely dry climatic phase with so much of the earths moisture locked tip within Ice sheets.

Sea level rises may have been relatively stable in the area of Atlantis until two accelerated sea rises, due to massive melt water discharges, from land/ice locked lakes around 12,000 BC (50-40cm per annum) and 9,300 BC (30-20 mm per annum). A third and final accelerated rise took occured between 6,000 and 5,500 BC as result of further melt water discharges. The process of' sea level rise took place as the earth warmed to the highest levels recorded for over 120,000 years, peaking before 2350 BC by some 3°C higher than current levels.

The observational evidence of the geological structure of the Azores Islands, above and below current sea level, does provide evidence of river systems, which must have been created by a much larger land area. However not enough convincing evidence exists because of substantial past volcanic activity, subsidence and land slippage within the area. This creates problems in searching both for ancient remains or biological evidence that may still exist.

Catastrophic flooding, collapse and sinking at around 9,500 BC has been suggested by many historical sources and it has now become a simple matter for science to prove or disprove the thesis. Confirmation and dating of a very large sunken island requires access to and analysis of just a few sediment cores and a search for underwater structures in key locations. These may exist from just below the surface of the sea down to a depth of 11,000 feet.

It is important to realise that the O'Brien survey and the small adjustment for tilt re- creates the island as clearly described by Plato and many other independent and unconnected sources. The major building structures, if they still exist, will lie to the south west of the great plain in an area covered by the greatest depth of.' water close to the catastrophic crustal rifting of the East Azores Fault Zone, which can be clearly seen on the Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map.

We have featured more than 30 important books on our recommended reading list, which in total have produced a weight of evidence to support the basic thesis presented by O'Brien, spanning from the common records of the earliest antiquity to serious modern research. Only now are we beginning to appreciate the stature and reliability of the records presented by Solon and Plato, and accept recent Scientific explanations for related dramatic crustal rifting movements and vertical movements of the earths crust.

On a world wide scale there is common story of a great flood preceded by exceptional rainfall and accompanied by earth quakes and volcanic eruptions. It may be of significance to state that tsunami tidal waves were not directly mentioned in connection with this great flood story and that modern science has identified and dated three distinct rapid rises and three small declines in sea level since the ice age as the worlds climate warmed. The first great flood may have held more significance to early man and Atlantis, than the many subsequent floods and other natural disasters. The latter include interruptions to the circulatory flow of the Gulf Stream through fresh water input/ice melt, and episodic cometary debris impacts.

We welcome further input into this project from all interested parties. The more detailed hydrographic information, which we hope to obtain from the Portuguese authorities and the Southampton University Oceanographic Department, will allow a few small steps to be made to either dismiss the existence of Atlantis at this site or confirm the detailed evidence to re-create the great legend as fact.
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« Reply #144 on: August 11, 2008, 02:33:53 am »

 
Trent

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Plato mentions elephants. Mammoth and mastodon bones have been said to be dredged up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge from time to time (per the Atlantic Ocean thread in the Atlantis forum).

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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« Reply #145 on: August 11, 2008, 02:35:11 am »

1953 cont.

Where Calypso may have lived, By Egerton Sykes (a summary)


The Azores when Prince Henry the Navigator (Portuguese explorer a descendant of England's own John Gaunt) ordered the expedition in the 15th Century were found to be uninhabited. According to Legend Prince Henry was in possession of an Ancient Map upon which the position of the Islands was marked, and overlooked the significance of this map for previous Trans-Atlantic contacts before Columbus. The only evidence of Human Habitation when he arrived was a Bronze Statue Equestrian who was pointing on a Horse towards America on the Island of Corvo. Some 250 years later, small hoard of Cathegenian coins was found, dating back to the 3rd Century B.C., and was described by the Swedish Archaeologist, Podolin. The presence of the coins established the fact that this island of Corvo was a trade center as far back as that date. Unfortunately, the statue and coins are missing, one lost to sea, and the other unknown to who the collector was. Humboldt mentions a cave on one side of the Island that first explorers found several inscriptions, and two or three statues. The writing was thought to be Hebrew only because they could not read it, but is very likely was Lybian-Punic, or Phoenician. The traces of the Caves location has also been lost all of, which can maybe traced in accounts in some Portuguese Library. The mythical Irish Maeldune, who visited the Islands in search of the slayer of his father, mentions an Island where a horde of Giant Ants as large as foals waited to seize the crew of his ships. Today these very rocks are called in the Azores, the Formigas or Ants? Maeldune reported landing on an Island where he saw, "A vast multitude of people on the sea, rushing along the crests of the waves with great outcry. As soon as they landed, they went to the green where they arranged a horse race." Since no less than eight of the nine coins found on Corvo had horses. Long before that, Statius Sebosus said the Azores were 6,000 Stades (750 miles) West of Maderia, and named two of the Islands Pluvalia, and Capraria, a fact well known to compilers of guides to navigators. Homer's reference to Calypso's Isle, 20 days sail from the islands of the Phaecians (The West Indies) obviously refers to the Azores. The Egyptians 1,500 B.C. had passed by the Azores, but is there earlier evidence of the land once being larger and inhabited?

The Swedish Scientist, Prof. Petterson, says that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was still above water fifteen thousand years ago. The fact that Santa Maria, the first island to be colonized again, is not volcanic tends to disprove the theories that the Islands were thrown up by volcanic action alone.

Webmaster Notes:

The islands the Greeks noted is broken up as Pluval-ia, and Caprar-ia which Pluval is the Latin equivalent of praefui, or as an adjective form Praesens i.e. present and in person. Also, refers to a safe harbor indirectly with praesidium name, which recalls Posidium. The other angle is proveho, to carry forward or sail onward in latin, and lastly profluo or to flow forth to rise. This indicates that the Pluval-ia is an island that maybe-volcanic active, or rises high and that some Egyptian Pharaoh's name had marked it as his own. The Caprar Island almost has the Calypso name, or Caply-so.

Latin Capere means take, or seize, and Caprae is for a 'goat'.

In Egyptian however Khepri is a magical serpents with human heads and wings in Taut XI

And is the name of Kheprer for the self-begotten sun beetle itself a form of Ra.

It is also a name for the spring period and the Zodiac sign of Cancer being the

opposite of Capricorn like Tropic of Cancer had replaced? The Islands may still yield

their original names yet!


http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2583/calypso.htm
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« Reply #146 on: April 16, 2009, 02:46:16 pm »

Hi ........Carolyn,

In my Theory the Mid- Atlantic Ridge did not exist befored 1055 bc.
Nor did the INDIAN ocean ridge exist before 855 bc.
Cry Shocked Cry

Mr Jacques HEBERT in his Book" Atlantis the forgotten Solution :" dd 2006,
positioned the ISLE of CALYPSO(+ OGYGA or EAEA.) on SOCOTRA in the INDIAN -Ocean
.


Could I bother you to comment on my #3-RULES of THUMB ?

( They are in blue print at the bottom of THIS Posting !)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 02:50:33 pm by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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