Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL

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                                             Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In 





Dreamweaver
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Rate Member   posted 07-19-2004 09:15 PM                       
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Greetings,

I've just signed up and have enjoyed reading the forums.

I have a rather simple question that has probably been asked before.

Forgive me, as I am no scientist, just an enthusiast who wants to learn as much as I can.

If you piece back all the continents together to (re)form Pangea, how much room does this leave
for Atlantis?

I believe Atlantis existed, and I ascribe to the date and size given by Plato, but placing Atlantis as a very large island in the Atlantic Ocean does present this problem.

Could someone explain how this can work please? Also, I grasp ideas best with visuals, so any maps would be helpful as well.

Thanks.
 
 

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atalante
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   posted 07-19-2004 09:46 PM                       
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Here is a map of Pangea.

As you can see, there does not appear to be any space in the mid-Atlantic where a continent like Atlantis could have existed.



http://faculty.gg.uwyo.edu/heller/Historical%20Geology/Historical%20Lect%209/pangea_map.htm



But perhaps a modest size island in the Caribbean could be squeezed into this map.

On the other hand, the impact zone around 65 million years ago which killed the dinosaurs may
account for the seemingly missing (modern) land near that impact zone.

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Dreamweaver
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Rate Member   posted 07-19-2004 10:08 PM                       
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Thank you Atalante.

This is the main problem I've encountered with the 'Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean' theory -- unless the areas filled in with the ligher shade of gray could account for this landmass, and it was a part of the mid-Atlantic ridge.

I have also read that the ancient Greeks named the whole ocean the Atlantic, which could place it anywhere else in the world (like the Pacific) but this idea seems to be strongly rejected by most
people as it has its drawbacks.

I do think there's more of possibility of finding a great landmass here though, be it Atlantis or not.
I am pretty much split evenly on almost every Atlantis location theory, as I find nearly equal
amounts of pros and cons in every place I look for it.

Oh Atlantis, where are you? ...

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Absonite

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Member # 1766

  posted 07-19-2004 10:54 PM                       
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atalante,

Why are you still spreading that false theory as fact?

Dinosaurs were not killed by any meteor.

They became extinct because they had a brain the size of a walnut, 40 ton bodies and they ate
all their food. 

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dhill757

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   posted 07-19-2004 11:07 PM                       
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Actually, I have to differ with Atalante.

Put the pieces of the continents back together and, though South America and Africa fit nicely, you really have to work to get North America into Europe. There might well be a missing piece. Whether it was continental size, who can say, but I think that the Laurasia theory really needs some more investigation here.

Scientists dismiss the possibility too lightly.

Actually, there's several ways that Atlantis could have existed, and they aren't all dependent on it being of a continental size either.

I just had a debate with Essan about this, so I'll just post the same points from one of the other threads:

There are several ways that Atlantis might have existed:

1. The raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Depending on how many years it was above the surface, it needn't have been a barren rock. The Azores certainly aren't barren rocks, they have a lot of flora and fauna on them. Any Mid-Atlantic Ridge as Atlantis theory presumes that it was much like this. The temperatures there are almost a constant 70 degrees year round and the area gets a lot of rainfall.

2. Atlantis, like Surtsey, could have been one of the many volcanic islands "spit out" by the volatile Atlantic, then taken back at a later date. Iceland is such an island. One of the most telling parts of the article I posted is that there is a lava sheet that stretches 20 miles thick:






Quotes from the Philadelphia Inquirer:



"Located traces of enormous sheets of ancient lava as much as 20 miles thick that spewed from undersea volcanoes. One such deposit covered almost four million square miles on the bottom of the Atlantic, stretching from eastern Canada to Spain and Africa's Ivory Coast."

"For instance, an expedition a year ago in the tropical Atlantic turned up evidence, buried in seafloor sediment, of repeated episodes of rapid global warming that led to massive plant and animal extinction in the distant past."




Both these could have something to do with Atlantis. Depending on how long it took for the lava to accumulate, Atlantis could be beneath the lava.

"Repeated episodes of global warming that led to mass plant and animal extinction"

also implies times where the Ice age could have come to an end quickly, bringing about massive tsunamis and flooding. Whatever we think we know, it is plain from the article that we still need to learn a lot more about the oceans.




3. Laurasia, this would imply a much older Atlantis, perhaps. I can certainly see that there is a "piece" missing from the continental plates between North America and Europe. Even if we take cotinental drift as a complete fact, the continents have been drifting apart for millions of years, we can only assume we know exactly what the map of the world looked like during all those earth changes.

4. The water levels being lower during the Ice Age, Atlantis could have been simply a larger version of one of the island chains we still have in the Atlantic now - the Azores, Madeiras, Canaries, etc. Yes, this would mean that Atlantis was smaller than Plato mentioned it being, but if you look at the description - one large central city surrounded by mountains and a large, flat rectangular plain, he does seem to be describing something along the lines of a large island rather than something of continental size.

5. Atlantis, according to the Oera Linde book, was also presumed to be a sunken area off Holland. I know very little about that, but I have heard that the sea is at it's shallowest in the area where this "other Atlantis" (circa 2193 for it's destruction), was supposed to have occurred.

6. Riven has also mapped out a bathymetric map of a area of the Atlantic that could have been Atlantis. I don't know where he got the information, but it takes in an area just east f the west of the Azores that includes both that island chain, Madeiras and the Canaries. Where is the proof that it exists? Well, there were underwater ruins found by the Russians found by the Ampere Seamounts, steps and walls, back in 1978, investigated all the more in subsequent expeditions.

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Riven

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  posted 07-20-2004 03:02 AM                       
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Dreamweaver;

If you were to piece back all the continents when they were together,
what year would you arrive at?

Let's say for arguments sake that the continental plates move from 1 - 2 cm per year.

Let's say 2 to be on the safe side if I stand to be corrected.



http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/zh.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean



So the Atlantic is around 3000 miles from America to N.Africa.

3000 miles X 5280 ft=15,840,000 ft.

15,840,000 ft X 12 inches =error on my calculator, hee hee.

=190,080,000 inches / 2.54 cm 74,834,645 cm.

74,834,645 / 2 cm per year =37,417,322 years ago.



Now then, was Atlantis around at this time?

Atlantis, the Continent, probably formed sometime after the halfway point of the split or at least
15 million years ago.

Either from a piece left over from the split or the erupting magma from the ocean floor.

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Tom Hebert
Member
Member # 999

  posted 07-20-2004 03:49 AM                       
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Dreamweaver,


You have to remember that Pangea is just a theory--not a very good one in my opinion.


 

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Essan

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   posted 07-20-2004 05:52 AM                       
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If Atlantis existed in the Atlantic, it could not be a 'continent' in a geological sense.

Continents do not disappear.

The nearest continents get to sinking beneath the sea is when shallow seas cover their fringes -
as is the case today with NW Europe (around Britain) and SE N America (Bahamas).

There could have been a fairly large island, formed in one of the ways Dhill describes - most likely
(like the Azores plateau) through volcanic eruptions along the Mid Atlantic Ridge or as a consequence of lowered sea levels during the last ice age.

My own opinion is that it's very unlikely there was ever any large, habitable, landmass in the mid Atlantic though.

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Essan

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   posted 07-20-2004 05:59 AM                       
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Incidently, regarding the Azores plateau:

when this formed it would have been in the Mid Atlantic (which would have been narrower then) and could have been mostly above sea level. A bit like Iceland.

As the Atlantic continued to widen, the plateau was left on one side of the mid Atlantic ridge, and slowly sank.

So if Atlantis existed several tens of millions of years ago, and took several million years to sink, then we've found it.




Some good maps of the Atlantic here: http://curragh.univ-brest.fr/~goslin/SIRENA/SIRENA_2/why.html



This map http:
//curragh.univ-brest.fr/~goslin/SIRENA/SIRENA_2/images/medium_images/Natl_seismicity.jpg


shows well the sunken continental fringe around Britain (and also off Newfoundland: could this be a
new candidate I wonder?) and the lack of any continental area in the mid Atlantic.

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Riven

Member
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  posted 07-20-2004 06:31 AM                       
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Essan;

Continents do not just disappear?

Everything disappears,entire planets,solar systems,stars etc.

Though Atlantis was not a Huge Continent like America or Russia perhaps, then consider this.

Atlantis most likely formed about 15-10 million years ago say half the size of America.

My Theory predicts that a Huge Asteroid crashed where Iceland is situated which also mysteriously is at the start of the Atlantic ridge. Then a huge transform fracture also erupted sinking half of Atlantis. Then another asteroid hit at the Tores seamount nearer Atlantis city, adding to more cataclysmal destruction.

Atlantis disappeared over time to it's remnant last recorded around 9600 bC, or 6482 bC according to my theory.

I favor this date also because of the differences between the Greek Moon Cycles and the Egyptian Sun Cycles as well as my ecliptic alignment of Planets based on the Eye of Ra Myths and Nov 1st, All Saints day which coincidently a great Tsunami destroyed Lisbon Portugal,N.Africa and the Atlantic islands even as far as Azores. Yet these tsunamis caused by an earthquake from plate pressures were only about 10 meters high!

Could you imagine the waves from a huge Asteroid? I think that this is also relevant with the 40-60k bC Tsunami that destroyed the W African coast and Cape Verde as well which perhaps could have been from the initial impact.

Also take into account my recent discovery that the myth about Tartarus(Hades) tells of two Brazen anvils falling from the sky, sort of like the myth of Phaethon who burned up the Earth.

It is easier to simplify the disappearance of a continent gradually rather than suddenly in this case.

Remember,water is soluable.

www.mts.net/~perasa

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atalante
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   posted 07-20-2004 10:28 AM                       
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Riven,

You were pretty close in your attempt to date (37 million years ago, using only a pocket calculator) the time when seafloor began to spread from the current mid-Atlantic Ridge.

Here is what I found by consulting the book Continental Drift, by Don and Maureen Tarling, 1971, page 82.

Seafloor spreading was taking place around Labrador (i.e. WEST of Greenland) during 80 million to 65 million years ago.

However Labrador spreading stopped around 65-55 million years ago. (The book is too old to mention that this occurred at roughly the same time as the major impact at the Yucatan peninsula, 60 million years ago)

Beginning around 55 million years ago, the current style of seafloor spreading (from the mid-Atlantic ridge) had become dominant.

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Tom Hebert
Member
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  posted 07-21-2004 06:58 AM                       
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I think there is still plenty of room for a continent-sized Atlantis.

We should remember that continental drift, plate techtonics, etc. are only theories.


Tom


 

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atalante
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   posted 07-21-2004 08:50 AM                       
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dhill,

You gave a suggestion that "Laurasia" may be consistent with a continent for Atlantis.
Perhaps you can comment on the following scenario, which is a conventional explanation of Laurasia.

During the Mesozoic period (245 to 65 million years ago), reptiles ruled the earth; and Pangea broke up into 6 major continental plates.

During the first breakup, Pangea separated into: a combined pair of northern plates (Laurasia); and a bundle of 4 southern plates (Gondwanaland).

reference: http://www.fact-index.com/m/me/mesozoic.html

In summary, it seems that Laurasia NEVER contained any "missing" continent (other than Europe/Asia/America) -- because Laurasia itself was originially assembled as part of Pangea.

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atalante
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   posted 07-21-2004 09:53 AM                       
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Riven,

Let's followup on your suggestion about walking the Atlantic continents back in time to the beginning of their spread around the Mid-Atlantic ridge.
Somewhere around 65-55 million years ago, we arrive at a situation where a) Labrador spreading, b) Iceland, and c) the Celtic shelf (around Great Britain) --- are adjacent to each other.

Presumably the Celtic shelf was sinking, perhaps being melted from underneath, and its continental material was trying to spread out. This would put stress on the continental plates near the Celtic shelf.

Then the asteroid impact at 65 million years ago added enough instantaneous stress to start tearing the continents apart from each other. After the tearing had started, it was just about like tearing an 8 x 11 sheet of paper into two pieces (but on a much larger scale), so the tearing process continued. Europe was torn away from America at the current location of the mid-Atlantic rift/ridge.

The currently known contintents are all probably around 400 million years old. They were originally part of Pangea. So in my opinion, its unlikely that a new continent called Atlantis formed at 15 million years ago, and then conveniently "disappeared".

The other continental matter has endured for 400 million years (plus or minus a few hundred million years).

What would make a continent like Atlantis so special that it both "formed and dissolved" in roughly 5% of the time which all the other continents have survived?

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Anteros

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   posted 07-21-2004 08:23 PM                       
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Dreamweaver said:

quote:
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If you piece back all the continents together to (re)form Pangea, how much room does this leave for Atlantis?
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Atalante said:


quote:
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Here is a map of Pangea... The currently known contintents are all probably around 400 million years old. They were originally part of Pangea.
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Riven said:


quote:
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Atlantis, the Continent, probably formed sometime after the halfway point of the split or at least 15 million years ago.
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Essan said:


quote:
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Continents do not disappear.
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Absonite said:


quote:
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Dinosaurs were not killed by any meteor. They became extinct...etc.
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Yadda, Yadda, Yadda!! You are all slaves of Uniformitarianism!! Are Dhill757 and Tom Hebert the only sane people in here?!?

Why do you slavishly adhere to theories and/or ideas created and perpetuated by people with something at stake in the bargain??

The fact is that we don't know what happened in ancient times and everything else is just guess work! Your guess is as good as mine!! The best we have are the "myths" handed down to us by our ancestors and in my opinion they are a better starting point than the guesses and wishes we get from today's so called experts; all of whom have their fingers in the pie!!

Uniformitarianism is a religion, nothing else. Use your brains, research our past, drop your modern-centric pretensions and you will see that not all is as it seems!

Sorry... I needed to rant!




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