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Is Hell Real?

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sevens
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« on: June 10, 2008, 07:38:02 pm »

Hi

As you know I am on the journey to the ancient places attempting to find parallels and connections to the ancient places mentioned in the Urantia Book.  In the journey I flit all over the place as I come across connections.  Just recently in the journey I came across a site called the screams of hell which was a audio file recorded by some Siberian drilling outfit who drilled a whole 14 kilometers deep and hit upon a cavity.  They dropped a microphone down the hole and heard these screams of thousands of people.

The audio tape disturbed but prompted me to consider the thought of hell.

Below are some posts about what I found and some thoughts.

Quote
Now here is something that I found quite disturbing and could relate to the underworld of the sleeping souls who have no rest, awaiting judgement when Jesus comes back.  For those who live truth, beauty and goodness showing love for one another in the spirit of Jesus actualy go straight to the mansion worlds after their death.  Those who spurn appear detained in a place of no rest by the sounds of it and do no progress into the kingdom of Heaven.

The Sounds of Hell video

http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLR,GGLR:2006-03,GGLR:en&q=sonds%20of%20hell&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#q=sounds%20of%20hell&sitesearch=

Its very disturbing but it could serve as a warning for unbelief and for those who spurn the Father and destroy mankind in there own way throughout their life.

Dr Maurice Rawlings - NDE - To Hell and Back
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864&q=sounds%20of%20hell&hl=en


sevens

and here is another post from the Urantia prospective

Quote
Here is a fragment from the Urantia Book which in the highlight seems like interesting perception of personality extinction.  But you have to read the link in context.

Quote
PAPER 102 - THE FOUNDATIONS OF RELIGIOUS FAITH, Oct 19 2000

http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper102.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper102.html&line=27#mfs

line 27: To the unbelieving materialist, man is simply an evolutionary accident. His hopes of survival are strung on a figment of mortal imagination; his fears, loves, longings, and beliefs are but the reaction of the incidental juxtaposition of certain lifeless atoms of matter. No display of energy nor expression of trust can carry him beyond the grave. The devotional labors and inspirational genius of the best of men are doomed to be extinguished by death, the long and lonely night of eternal oblivion and soul extinction . Nameless despair is man's only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good
.

and personality extinction, the UB

http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=personality+extinction&submit=Submit

Quote
line 107:           In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction ; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence

Sevens

and here is another post

Quote
With the sounds of hell post

Here is the counter balance story to the original story.

Everyone has to make up their own mind on Hell.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.asp

Here is another good video

This man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell are real
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGpxfoF3SYg&feature=related

Which Im more interested in rather than Hell.

But I thought this UB fragment from the above was relevant


Quote
Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction

The dense material always eventually goes to the middle of the earth. So would a separated soul venture the same path of heavier material? detained before personality extinction made by the Ancients of Days at the adjudication?

One thing we will know all the truth about this subject in the future.

Well one thing for sure, that study on Hell made me think many things about myself to be honest and Im going to refrain as best as possible to NOT judge my fellow man and to be more loving and my best to live Jesus' life in spirit towards my fellow man.

There is no way I want separation from the Father and Jesus. No way man! Even if there is even an incling of truth in that in that Im going to be more aware. Those sounds shocked the living daylights out of me.

What a horrible place, if that is the case and the bible says so that its the case quite clearly.  Revelation has the description.

It makes one think!

Well regarding the journey to the ancient places all I can say is that I was all truthful and sincere using best the I had around to find the truth of the matter in the books and I never was in a mind to manipulate or to create something with premeditation It just happened as things occur to me as I reached the hidden tracks left by land marks in the description of things regarding all things of the ancient cities.

All things material Ive invested in this, Im broke but yet inspired by the Father of Heaven in how the journey has led me to great places and throughout the world. Im very happy to be part of the resurrection of the Melchizedek truth that helps man avoid those dire consequences of what we just saw.

I wouldn't want that on any man and Jesus is the way, praise the Lord almighty, well I hope I can overcome my weakness as best I can and do a good job ultimately without any failure if I can. But I know when you are inspired by the Father and your thoughts are concentrating on the threads of truth in vigor its a beautiful experience where there is no separation form within.

Action of the oneness of the Holy Spirit and the Father fragment from within.

Praise the Lord for that construct of the man that enables him to find the victory within himself over the self. Through unselfish acts!

That's another area I suffer from. That's probably why I do this as the balance to that selfishness and by me sharing my work on the run I eventually become unselfish through the action of the Father. It can be a hard road though!

We can only do our best and be conscious of all things.

Here is a Urantia book fragment about Hell according to the Hindu tradition

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=hell


Quote
"God is our Father, the earth our mother, and the universe our birthplace. Without God the soul is a prisoner; to know God releases the soul. By meditation on God, by union with him, there comes deliverance from the illusions of evil and ultimate salvation from all material fetters. When man shall roll up space as a piece of leather, then will come the end of evil because man has found God. O God, save us from the threefold ruin of hell--lust, wrath, and avarice! O soul, gird yourself for the spirit struggle of immortality! When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death. To know God is to cut the cords of death. The God-knowing soul rises in the universe like the cream appears on top of the milk. We worship God, the all-worker, the Great Soul, who is ever seated in the heart of his creatures. And they who know that God is enthroned in the human heart are destined to become like him--immortal. Evil must be left behind in this world, but virtue follows the soul to heaven.

"It is only the wicked who say: The universe has neither truth nor a ruler; it was only designed for our lusts. Such souls are deluded by the smallness of their intellects. They thus abandon themselves to the enjoyment of their lusts and deprive their souls of the joys of virtue and the pleasures of righteousness. What can be greater than to experience salvation from sin? The man who has seen the Supreme is immortal. Man's friends of the flesh cannot survive death; virtue alone walks by man's side as he journeys ever onward toward the gladsome and sunlit fields of Paradise."
Sevens


In the final analysis  Im not sure whether this is a hoax or not and it seems to me that the Ancients of Days can only execute personality extinction when they are all together like in a dispensational change. 

It appears to me that after death depending on your status


That there are those that go straight to the mansions worlds
There are those that sleep until judgement occurs
And I wonder if there are those that have no sleep and unrest through there separation.

Also there seems to be a 4 minute period after death where your mental processes are still working.  It could be that in this 4 minute period most human beings, (depending on their death) go through a self realisation of themselves and what they face due to their witness in their life.  It seems to be a common experience amongst those who went through the near death experience and they all have the same story.  The thing in common is that they called out to the Jesus in their time of trial and Jesus never failed them.

Well Im not taking any chances here and I dont want any one to go through such a horrible reality.

It maybe that a place of unrest might actually exist where there is no sleep, as we know Evil cannot go to heaven and so it must be kept somewhere before it can be fully extinguished by all the 3 Ancients of Days present.

So Im thinking perhaps one aspect of the personality after death is kept in a place detention for those who are evil in the sight of God.  Hell seems like place realisation of all sorts of things of unrest, it seems obvious that the spiritual unrest follows you and gives you no sleep.

Look all Im saying is take no chances on this one.  Its all to do with Jesus our Saviour and if anyone dies and comes into this Near Death Experience or death experience and has problems Just call out for Jesus that's all and with sincerity which Im sure anyone would be sincere at a time like that.

that 4 minute period could be very significant to where you go, so call out the name of Jesus if you have problems or remember this post and call out to Jesus if your in a mire of problems with the inevitability.

I dont want anyone to fall short of heaven.  Im not sure if the Siberian screams of Hell is true or not. However, Im  assuming there is some truth in a place of detention of Evil before the ancient Days come for judgement.

Whilst there are those that sleep in peace there must be those that have no spiritual sleep! and where are they kept before judgement??

I wouldnt mind some thoughts from the Urantia Brothers on this.  I think it would be good to look into the matter of Hell.

Does the Urantia Book says there is no Hell?  I cant find that reference.  It would be a good study for the benefit of man to actualy determine the truth of Hell and if there exists a place of detention on Earth where the survivors have no rest whilst on the other hand there are sleeping survivors that have the peaceful rest.

Sincerely
Sevens
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 04:35:10 pm by sevens » Report Spam   Logged

sevens
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 08:59:33 pm »

OK 7s
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 09:20:05 pm by sevens » Report Spam   Logged

sevens
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 09:09:42 pm »

Ok here is some fragments on survival, judgement and sleeping survivors related to the ressurection of Jesus.

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper189.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper189.html&line=77#mfs

Quote
The circuit of the archangels then operated for the first time from Urantia. Gabriel and the archangel hosts moved to the place of the spiritual polarity of the planet; and when Gabriel gave the signal, there flashed to the first of the system mansion worlds the voice of Gabriel, saying: "By the mandate of Michael, let the dead of a Urantia dispensation rise!" Then all the survivors of the human races of Urantia who had fallen asleep since the days of Adam, and who had not already gone on to judgment, appeared in the resurrection halls of mansonia in readiness for morontia investiture. And in an instant of time the seraphim and their associates made ready to depart for the mansion worlds. Ordinarily these seraphic guardians, onetime assigned to the group custody of these surviving mortals, would have been present at the moment of their awaking in the resurrection halls of mansonia, but they were on this world itself at this time because of the necessity of Gabriel's presence here in connection with the morontia resurrection of Jesus.




So what happened to the one that had no sleep or unrest?

Here is a search on  surviving+mortals

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=surviving+mortals

and here is a search on Nonsurvival

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=nonsurvival&submit=Submit

fragment

Quote
As related to fusion candidates, if a Mystery Monitor is deserted by the mortal associate, if the human partner declines to pursue the ascending career, when released by natural death (or prior thereto), the Adjuster carries away everything of survival value which has evolved in the mind of that nonsurviving creature. If an Adjuster should repeatedly fail to attain fusion personality because of the nonsurvival of successive human subjects, and if this Monitor should subsequently be personalized, all the acquired experience of having indwelt and mastered all these mortal minds would become the actual possession of such a newly Personalized Adjuster, an endowment to be enjoyed and utilized throughout all future ages. A Personalized Adjuster of this order is a composite assembly of all the survival traits of all his former creature hosts.

To me the above highlights that during/after death there is an opportunity of decision. "when released by natural death (or prior thereto),"  This is also marked by the testimony of those who Had Near Death Experiences where Jesus came in response to their pleas in a very sticky situation.  They all made positive appeals to Jesus and he came to save them like a friend and saviour.

here is a word search on judgment

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=judgment

and a word search on Hell

http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=Hell

Sevens
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 02:05:28 am by sevens » Report Spam   Logged

Veronica Poe
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 12:36:14 am »

I actually don't believe that hell is real.  If you look at the concept of hell, it only became in vogue, with the flames and all that during the Middle Ages when priests felt the need to elaborate on their sermons.  I believe it has been endowed with qualities that the Bible did not intend for it to be, and yet even the sources for the description in the Bible are, at best, spurious, no doubt inspired from the dark realms of religions far older than Christianity.

Human beings are quite adept at making their own hells, we don't even need for it to be a real place.

Peace,

Veronica
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sevens
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 02:11:44 am »

No worries

Many of the ancient books before Jesus all make some reference to some Hell.

Surely the ancient prophets of all the religions before the middle ages couldn't be wrong!

There must be some truth in that some where.

Then again how can we prove that they are wrong? or in total error?

I don't think we can prove that Hell doesn't exist.

How could the people of NDE have the same experience all saying the same things?

People say we don't need a hell but maybe we have no choice in the matter of the existence of actual hell, no matter what people think. Its just perhaps the way it is! 

Unless someone can actually prove the non existence of Hell I'm taking no chances.

All I'm saying, if people find themselves in a sticky situation after death where there is a choice in the light of heavy circumstance just call out to Jesus with sincerity.  Thats all I'm saying!

No way about this place what a horrible bloody crappy place,  I wouldn't entertain disbelief on this place as the costs is far to high to **** with!

Here are some videos of Near Death Experience surely these people cannot be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/v/NPabMyVvC9s&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/v/YEwkYuQm-LE&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/v/zZUeTJR8NPs&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/v/RsV2oWL0bK0&hl=en

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=8225341779641252488&hl=en

and

An Atheist Has A Near-Death Experience
http://www.youtube.com/v/6AmfrLGkwGE&hl=en

Sevens
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Veronica Poe
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 12:25:58 am »

Nice videos, sevens.

Well, there is an innate guilt that has been present in human beings so belief in a hell sort of feeds upon all that. Christianity especially tends to impose these strict moral edicts upon all of us, and has a very unhealthy attitude towards that which it deems impure.  As I said, the tradition of hell managed to grow throughout the centuries. Strip away the propaganda and what do we really have?  Something that is alluded to in the religious texts, but something our own mythology has made worse by tenfold. 

Peace,

Veronica
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 08:16:14 pm »

Hi Veronica

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I found it interesting that many of the induviduals in the video have much commonalities in the experience.

To me its seems like a mystery within itself but many people from diverse backgrounds seem to have much things in common in the NDE but is varied dependent on the induvidual.  Mind you some people never had any belief in the beforehand and yet in the NDE where faced with a common theme in direction dependent on a decision, in some cases.

Its all very interesting and Im still looking into it, Im not sure whether a place like that exist but many books from diverse cultures speak about a place like this and there is some prophecy that seem consistant with the first post relating to the video.

The Uranita book doesnt confirm nor deny such a place but I think this is worthy enquiry.

Later on III post up some things I found regarding the abyss which appears to have resemblance.  Im still looking into it.

Veronica and thanks for the reply.

All the best in truth, beauty and goodness and off course peace and love
Sevens
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 06:29:20 am »

Back to Hell

Here is a fragment that uses the word Invented Hells.

       
Quote
web page

2. THE CONCEPT OF SIN
The fear of chance and the dread of bad luck literally drove man into the invention of primitive religion as supposed insurance against these calamities. From magic and ghosts, religion evolved through spirits and fetishes to taboos. Every primitive tribe had its tree of forbidden fruit, literally the apple but figuratively consisting of a thousand branches hanging heavy with all sorts of taboos. And the forbidden tree always said, "Thou shalt not."

As the savage mind evolved to that point where it envisaged both good and bad spirits, and when the taboo received the solemn sanction of evolving religion, the stage was all set for the appearance of the new conception of sin. The idea of sin was universally established in the world before revealed religion ever made its entry. It was only by the concept of sin that natural death became logical to the primitive mind. Sin was the transgression of taboo, and death was the penalty of sin.

Sin was ritual, not rational; an act, not a thought.  And this entire concept of sin was fostered by the lingering traditions of Dilmun  and the days of  a little paradise on earth. 

The tradition of  Adam and the Garden of Eden  also lent substance to the dream of a onetime "golden age" of the dawn of the races. And all this confirmed the ideas later expressed in the belief that man had his origin in a special creation, that he started his career in perfection, and that transgression of the  taboos--sin--brought him down to his later sorry plight.

The habitual violation of a taboo became a vice; primitive law made vice a crime; religion made it a sin. Among the early tribes the violation of a taboo was a combined crime and sin. Community calamity was always regarded as punishment for tribal sin. To those who believed that prosperity and righteousness went together, the apparent prosperity of the wicked occasioned so much worry that it was necessary to  invent hells  for the punishment of taboo violators; the numbers of these places of future punishment have varied from one to five.

The idea of confession and forgiveness early appeared in primitive religion. Men would ask forgiveness at a public meeting for sins they intended to commit the following week. Confession was merely a rite of remission, also a public notification of defilement, a ritual of crying "unclean, unclean!" Then followed all the ritualistic schemes of purification. All ancient peoples practiced these meaningless ceremonies. Many apparently hygienic customs of the early tribes were largely ceremonial.

 
The Urantia Book seems to infer that Hell is an invention because of the above reasons.

Well its up to people to make up there own mind on the subject of Hell and how it was created.

Maybe hell is an invention!

Also  the world record for drilling is being attempted at 35 000 feet = 10.668 kilometer.

      http://www.nola.com/business/t-p/index.ssf?/base/money-3/1213334617150850.xml&coll=1     

In the Youtube video it states that the drill was 14.4 kilometers.  That has never occured

So based on that alone, the sounds of hell from 14.4 kilometers below the ground would have to be a fraud!

I believe that is false, the screams of hell video.

Im am inclined to believe the Urantia Book information and I found the references to the ancient cities was interesting particularly the mention of Dilmun and sin and its origins in truth.

Here is another fragment in the same above link and makes reference to the Seven commands, one of the objective of going to Dalamatia City, to locate the stone slabs with the Seven commands inscribed.

Dilmun is the Atlantis of the Egyptians and whom adopted the myth of Dalamatia City as there own.

"a little paradise on earth" is Dalamatia City


sevens
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 08:49:17 am »

Quote
PAPER 52 - PLANETARY MORTAL EPOCHS, Oct 19 2000

line 126: On Urantia the establishment of this "new and living way" was a matter of fact as well as of truth. The isolation of Urantia in the Lucifer rebellion had suspended the procedure whereby mortals can pass, upon death, directly to the shores of the mansion worlds. Before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia all souls slept on until the dispensational or special millennial resurrections. Even Moses was not permitted to go over to the other side until the occasion of a special resurrection, the fallen Planetary Prince, Caligastia, contesting such a deliverance.  But ever since the day of Pentecost, Urantia mortals again may proceed directly to the morontia spheres.
   
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 12:46:55 am »

sevens,

I just really wonder, how reliable are NDE as a source of proof?  Think about it, no one alive has ever been to heaven, nor have we ever been to hell.  Our conceptions of such places are formed from conditioning we receive in our religious schooling, and, as some of us know, much of what religion teaches us happens to be wrong.

It could be that the visions of heaven and hell that people see when they have a near death experience are the results of nothing more than illusions brought about by our religious conditioning, i.e., we see what we expect to see.

How do we know that any of the things we see are real at all when we simply see it through the filter of our supposed faith?

Peace,

Veronica
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 02:06:14 am »

No.

Our souls go to the Sinus-Medii region on the moon for 'formatting' before it is passed on into a new life.

Hell came about via cannibalistic Deros who resided under the Earth because of too much UVA,UVB, & UVC rays were deadly to their sensitive dermatology.
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 05:06:41 pm »

Hi Veronica

With the NDE I tend to feel that there is truly a personal experience going on, I believe its a product of mind processes and the soul at the time.  I do believe in a God and heaven a dimension of eternal existance.  I believe there are many truths in the bible and in other books but I also believe that evolutionary religion is wrong in some things like the existance of Hell and is/was emotive in using the dogmas of Hell to compell man into religion through fear.

Jesus never talked about Hell and its existance, man does so obviously the use of hell is manmade with purpose!

Sevens
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2008, 05:09:05 pm »

Quote
Deros who resided under the Earth because of too much UVA,UVB, & UVC rays were deadly to their sensitive dermatology.
Posted on: Today at 12:46:55 amPosted by: Veronica Poe   

Deros has got some real problems now with global warming and all

ahahahahahah.


Sevens
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 03:10:45 am »

sevens,

I believe that people like to imagine there's no hell because it absolves people like Veronica of feeling any moral responsibitlity for their actions! They don't believe there will be any judgment so they can act however they please.  These people are fooling themselves and God's judgment will be a harsh one!

Anyway, that's how I see it.

Elmer
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"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." - LUKE 5:32
"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."- MATTHEW 26:41
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 04:45:26 am »

Hi Elmer,

I know there are some thing that I have might of said thimgs that are a little eye opening but one thing I am certain of through my inquiry is that there is definately a Judgment Day for all mankind.  I know this journey is not mainstream thats why its a faith journey to where it leads and we know in the end times there will be much correction for all bodies which includes every institution on the planet.

I believe the journey to all the ancient places in  previous ages is the sign and we have to test out everything and see where the plumb line falls in the measure of everything.  If there is inconsistancy that holds back man it must be located and declared with the best evidence available,

I believe this is a great clue in metaphor I found last night reflecting in type to where the physical truth will be found, in the Seas leading to new and widening spiritual reality.  Exactly pointing to this journey to the ancient places submerged in the Sea

The fragment is in Jesus' own words.

 
Quote
those  faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul    

 web page

I reckon Im absolutely right in what's been said and its reflected in Jesus' words of the Ub today. Surely this is a great confirmation by Jesus, confirming this journey today in his reflections 2000 years ago.

Confirmation of this journey in type and in description, Jesus was looking forward to this time NOW in the journey to the ancient cities.

the full verse

Quote
The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress. The religion of the mind--the theology of authority--requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers. Tradition is a safe refuge and an easy path for those fearful and halfhearted souls who instinctively shun the spirit struggles and mental uncertainties associated with those faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul.

Its important that the submerged cities are verified.

Praise the Lord!
Sevens
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 05:16:09 am by sevens » Report Spam   Logged

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