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Atlantis => the Scientific Atlantis => Topic started by: Carolyn Silver on April 10, 2007, 02:31:11 am



Title: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 10, 2007, 02:31:11 am
HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY

Back in Sykes’ day and still today, the biggest struggle for Atlantology is the fact that the science is faced with the challenge of having to prove the existence of its own subject. Over the past century, many gifted academics travelled widely diverse roads to solve this basic problem, but none of them ever quite found a clear path over this troublesome hurdle. Sykes was equally unsuccessful, but somewhat comforted by the knowledge that he was always in good company. All over the world, there were many intelligent, adventurous explorers making startling discoveries — directly or indirectly related — to the famous lost continent.
Plato’s Dialogues Timaeus and Critias, written between 429 and 347 BC, and the more than six-hundred flood legends around the world, are not proven to be of historical value. Unfortunately, the only historic document about Atlantis is Plato. Plato was accused, beginning with his pupil Aristotle, of inventing Atlantis for propaganda purposes. The fantastic incredibility of the location of a continent or island in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, and the presence upon this land mass of a civilized people while simultaneously the rest of humanity was still in a state of savagery, was a big pill for disbelievers to swallow.
For quite a long time, scientists investigated the possibility that North Africa, including the Sahara Desert, formed part of or was contemporary with Atlantis. In 1814, Ali Bey El Abbassi (or Domingo Badia y Leyblich) wrote a book on The Ancient Island of Atlantis and the Possibility of an Interior Sea in the Center of Africa.
The discovery of America with its gigantic ruined cities in Yucatan, Peru, and the Andean Highlands fired the early Atlantologists to much research and the writing of books — a process which dwindled until the middle of the last century when Ignatius Donnelly arrived on the scene.
Minnesota congressman, Ignatius Donnelly, author of the 1882 overnight best seller Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, is known as the Father of the Science of Atlantology. In 1883, he published Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel. Donnelly was a Republican Minnesota Congressman with an encyclopedic mind who studied law but preferred poetry. Unlike other members of Congress, Donnelly logged in many hours in the Library of Congress, and a short time into retirement he produced his first book Atlantis: The Antediluvian World. The best response to the book was not in America but in the United Kingdom. Four-time Prime Minister of Britain, William Ewart Gladstone, wrote to Donnelly to congratulate him on his book and in 1882, Gladstone asked the Cabinet to produce funds for the sending of a ship to trace out the outline of Atlantis. Gladstone failed to secure the necessary support from the Treasury.
Donnelly’s time was not ripe for the unreserved acceptance of the hypothesis of a land mass suddenly lost in the Atlantic Ocean, chiefly because geophysical theories were unable to supply physical presuppositions for such a loss. Donnelly’s books did not evoke new research but provided the blueprints for the general method of study of Atlantology. The science of Atlantology was fundamentally hampered from progress until Hoerbiger and Sykes, who offered theories which could convincingly explain the sudden catastrophic loss of Atlantis.
In 1907, Etienne Felix Berlioux wrote a series of papers entitled Morocco and the Atlanteans for the Academy of Sciences at Lyons.
Professor Wladimir Bogachev was a distinguished geologist who may be described as the Father of Atlantology in Russia. In 1910, Bogachev was a lecturer at the University of Dorpat, Estonia, and in 1912, he published a brochure Atlantida, the first work on the geology of Atlantis to be printed.
Between 1910 and 1932, Leo Frobenius, the famous German anthropologist, made no less than ten African voyages. During an excavation in Nigeria in the palace compound of the chief of the ancient Ife culture, he discovered outstanding works of art in the form of remarkable bronze heads and terra cottas — portraits of individuals which displayed an astonishing degree of realism not found elsewhere in African culture. Frobenius believed the Ife to be an important culture which succumbed to climatic conditions.
On October 20, 1912, Paul Schliemann’s sensational article on Atlantis was published in the New York American, a publication of Hearst Press. Paul claimed that his famous grandfather, Heinrich Schliemann, began investigating the myth of Atlantis in 1883, seven years before his death, and Paul had inherited Heinrich’s confidential research, as well as funding to continue the work. Young Schliemann’s complete silence after 1918 confirmed the view generally held that he must have died during World War I. The article was believed by many to be a hoax, as not one single member of the Schliemann family uttered a word either in favor or against the story.
Pierre Termier’s Atlantide of 1913 and La Derive des Continents of 1924, were two of the most important scientific works on the subject in the early half of the century.
It was Pierre Benoit’s novel Atlantide, first published in 1920, which stimulated many expeditions to Africa. Benoit’s novel told of the adventures of some French officers seeking for traces of Atlantis in the wastelands of North Africa, where they encountered the legendary Atlantean Princess Antinea.
In 1920, Alfred Watkins, an expert photographer and inventor of the Watkins Exposure Meter, began noting on 1” and 6” Ordnance Survey maps of the British Isles, the numerous alignments of ancient sites. Watkins concluded that, before Roman times, members of an unknown race accurately surveyed the land, leaving markstones and circular mounds, whose alignments came to be known as leys or straight tracks, ranging in length from three to one-hundred miles. In 1927, Watkins, founder of the Straight Track Club (1926-1949), published The Ley Hunters Manual, a ninety page book containing one-hundred-and-twenty photographs and site diagrams of markstones and their ley lines.
Lewis Spence once said, “I still assert with all the emphasis at my command that unless the iron discipline of scientific detachment be recognized in the consideration of such questions as the Atlantean, its study might as well been abandoned. For me there are two Atlantises — the Atlantis of fantasy and imagination, and that of reality. Sometimes these ideas appear to fuse, at others they are as far apart as poles.”
Spence’s 1924 The Problem of Atlantis and 1925 Atlantis in North America evoked interest in the subject in the Anglo Saxon world. Spence also formed his Atlantis Research Center and published Atlantis Quarterly, which closed down after five issues.
In 1925, F. Butavand wrote La Veritable Histoire de l’Atlantide, in support of his thesis that Atlantis had originally been a series of islands, now submerged, lying off the Tunisian coast — the site where Carthage and Utica were later founded and built.
On June 24, 1926, Paul Le Cour and Roger Devigne created the Society for Atlantic Studies at the Sorbonne in France. Shortly afterwards, Les Amis d’Atlantis broke up into two Atlantis study groups: one based on Le Cour’s mystical approach; and the other on Devigne’s more pragmatic approach.
In 1926, R.M. (Rene-Maurice) Gattefosse, Jean Gattefosse, and Claudius Roux published the famous bibliography of Atlantis Bibliographie de L’Atlantide.
In 1927, the Caribbean explorer F.A. Mitchell-Hedges discovered the famous, exquisitely carved, eleven pound, life-size skull with a moveable jaw, cut from a block of rock crystal, in a Mayan temple in Lubaantun, British Honduras. Microscopic examination of the surface for grinding patterns showed no evidence of tools. Rock crystal was believed by the ancients to be frozen holy water that never melted, a form of supernatural white magic, and the flaws in the crystal to be the souls of a host of guardian angels.
In 1929, Professor Paul Borchardt of Muich, a geographer and explorer, claimed to have found Plato’s Atlantis at a North African site in the Mediterranean Sea between the Schott el Dejrid and the Gulf of Gabes, and aided by Dr. Albert Herrmann of the University of Berlin, assigned the whole of the Atlantis story to a small locality near Tunis.
Professor Hans Pettersson, leader of the Swedish Albatross expedition, which extracted hundreds of samples from the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in the 1930’s, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was mainly above water 15,000 years ago. A similar conclusion was reached by the German Gauss expedition, which sounded the Romanche Deep in 1901. In 1936, Maurice Piggot’s famous U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey of deep core soundings showed definitively that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge reached above the surface of the sea 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Different sediment deposits on each side of the Ridge showed that the Ridge once separated two currents, and there are heavy deposits of volcanic ash on both sides which, according to carbon dating, were deposited 12,000 years ago.
In Italy, it was inevitable that Italian interest in Atlantis should be focused on the Tyrrhenian Sea and North Africa, rather than the distant Atlantic. Dr. Nicola Russo, Chairman of the Italian Atlantis Society and editor of the its journal Atlantide in Italia, which appeared from 1930 to 1932, wrote several papers on the subject. Unfortunately, the Society’s activities were suspended in the immediate pre-war years of World War II due to the pressure of domestic politics; however, in 1956, interest in Atlantis was revived in Italy with the formation of the Centro Culturale Atlantide in Genoa. The group published La Voce d’Atlantide edited by Gianni Belli of Genoa from 1956 to 1958. In 1963, the Italian Atlantis was published in Genoa by Mr. Leonardo Bettini, a member of the Atlantis Research Center.
In 1933, Lieutenant Brenans of the French Camel Corps discovered the magnificent Tassili petroglyphs in the middle of the Sahara Desert. In 1959, Henry Lhote published The Search for the Tassili Frescoes, the Rock Paintings of the Sahara, the story of the sixteen months spent by the author and two different teams searching for and copying some of the most wonderful rock paintings in the world. The vast size of some of the frescoes show the importance of ritual art in the life of the nomadic people in the days before the Sahara had been turned into a desert.
In 1948 in French North Africa, a new organization came into existence called L’Atlantide de Demain, headed by Amedee Guiraud. The group published a quarterly journal En L’Atlantide. The objective of the new group was to establish a link between North West Africa and Atlantis, and to bring the whole area back to the conditions of fertility and prosperity which existed in the time of Atlantis.
In 1948, Professor N. Boneff, head of the Department of Astronomy at Sofia University and member of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, issued Une Application de la Theorie des Marees au Probleme de L’Atlantide, an important mathematical contribution related to the destruction of Atlantis.
On November 17, 1949, Pastor Jurgen Spanuth wrote a letter to Sykes to notify him that the race for Atlantis was finally over. Spanuth was certain he had located the remains of Plato’s lost continent five miles south of Helgoland in the North Sea. Top
Professor Rene Malaise published Atlantis en Geologisk Verkzighet in Stockholm in 1950.
In 1951, the Cuba Institute of Archaeology debated the possibility that Cuba was once in some way related to Atlantis. They concluded that the island’s prehistoric caves with petroglyphs and astronomical symbols, and a staircase leading to a rudimentary observatory in ***** del Este, may support the theory.
In April 1952, scientists reported the discovery of three-hundred human skeletons in a deep cave in the Pyrenean district of southwest France. There was a stalagmite growing out of a hipbone, verifying the calculated dating of up to 15,000 years old.
In August 1952, Dr. Daniel Ruzo found himself on the Marcahuasi Plateau, eighty kilometers from Lima, Peru. The plateau, showing traces of prehistoric works of defence, habitation, and hydrology, boasted hundreds of gigantic sculptures of men and beasts, including animals which never existed in America, carved about 10,000 years ago. Many of the sculptures could only be seen clearly at certain times of day under certain light conditions. The Egyptian god Thueris, a female hippopotamus and symbol of fertility, was represented five times at Marcahuasi.
The July 1955 journal of the Soviet Academy of Sciences, Priroda, contained an article by Professor E.F. Hagemeister of Tallin who, based on investigation into the disintegration of ionium made at various depths of the Atlantic Ocean, stated that the Gulf Stream had only come into existence 12,000 years ago. Hagemeister concluded that the end of the European Ice Age, the appearance of the Gulf Stream, and the submersion of Atlantis, all took place at the same time. In the same issue, V.A. Obroutchev of the Soviet Academy, leading authority on the civilizations of the Gobi Desert, supported his colleague’s theory based on current geological findings.
In 1956, Zaki Saad of the Egyptian Department of Antiquities reported discoveries in the neighborhood of Cairo, showing that the then capital of Egypt was a flourishing metropolis of about a million people before the First Dynasty, and had roots stretching back at least two thousand years before then.
On January 18, 1956, Dr. Michael Kamienski, Professor of Astronomy, gave a lecture called Tragedy of Atlantis-Poseidia in one of the largest halls of Krakow University in Poland. When over five-hundred people showed up but only three-hundred could squeeze into the room, the gracious lecturer repeated his performance the following week. Kamienski dated Halley’s Comet back to BC 9542, the time of the submersion of Atlantis, and hypothesized that some portion of the tail or even the head of Halley’s Comet broke off and plunged into the western Atlantic Ocean. Kamienski continued his researches into comets Haley and Wolf (named the Wolf Kamienski Comet in his honor in 1971), until his retirement in 1963.
The unique calendrical system of the inhabitants of Tiahuanaco, immortalized in great stone gateways and Idols, accurately fit in with Hoerbiger’s Lunar Capture Theory, as described by the German scientist Edmund Kiss after his visit to Tiahuanaco in 1929 and in great detail in 1956, in H. S. Bellamy and Peter Allan’s book The Calendar of Tiahuanaco. In 1957, both Allan and Bellamy received Honorary Professorships at the University of La Paz in recognition of their work.
Sykes’ interest in the archaeology of the Caribbean began with Horace Gouvieva’s underwater find of stone columns off the coast of Bermuda in 1958, and the discovery of a sunken temple off the island of Andros by Dr. Manson Valentine and Dimitri Rebikoff, a Fort Lauderdale oceanographer and underwater explorer. Valentine later discovered more underwater remains off North Bimini.
In 1959, Arthur Louis Joquel II stated, “The legend of the lost continent of Atlantis is the most fascinating story which man has ever known. The theme of the great island in the Atlantic Ocean, which was destroyed with all of its people and its wealth in a single day and night of earthquake and flood, has for several thousand years intrigued everyone who heard it. Heated argument and debate has raged over whether Atlantis ever really existed or not, and if so, where and how long ago. Over two-thousand separate books and articles have been written about it; there have been Atlantean Societies and magazines. Several motion pictures have been based on it, and expeditions have searched for it on sea and land.”
In 1960, Professor Angelos G. Galanopoulos, a seismologist at Athens University, announced that the Santorini volcanic explosion of BC 1400 destroyed the civilization of Minoan Crete, and the island contained the remnants of Atlantis . Mr. James V. Mavor of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute supported the theory in his 1969 book Voyage to Atlantis. Sykes thought the Santorini theory to be purely political, and designed to prove to the world that Greek influence of the Eastern Mediterranean antedated that of the Turks.
In the July 1960 Ohio Archaeologist, Carl B. Compton’s article America’s First People, declared that the relatively new and amazingly fast-developing radiocarbon dating method had pushed back the date for early man in America to 40,000 years or more.
In 1960, after three decades of disagreement, Sykes’ research finally supported the readings of the famous American prophet, Edgar Cayce (1877-1945), that Bimini was likely one of the best places to find records of Atlantis. Sykes corresponded with Edgar Cayce by letter in 1935 and 1936 about the Bimini complex. Cayce’s readings are preserved at the Association of Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.) in Virginia Beach, which is also the present home of the Egerton Sykes Collection. Besides pointing to Bimini first, all seven-hundred Cayce readings on the subject of Atlantis admirably balance Atlantis and Diffusion. Cayce’s words also offer a step toward a greater comprehension of what Atlantis really means to humankind. The Cayce material teaches that philosophy, theology, and science are not like oil and water, but have an affinity for each other, and are indispensable to one another. Cayce makes it clear that philosophy and science, as separate ways of thinking, will not stand the test of life and experience. Unfortunately, the majority of conventional scientists dismiss Cayce’s unique methodology without a second thought.
Professor Dimitry G. Panov was a Doctor of Geographical Science and the editor of Zhirov’s book Atlantida printed in Moscow in 1964. In 1961, Panov published The Origin of the Continents and the Oceans (State Geographical Publications, Moscow), in which he stated his views on the history and geological structure of the world’s oceans, and mentioned his belief in the reality of Atlantis.
On April 22, 1964, Dr. N. Th.Zhirov read his paper, The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis , to the Leningrad House of Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours.
In 1965, an Italian expert on North Africa, Alf Bajocco, published The Early Inhabitants of the Canary Islands, in which he considered that the original inhabitants of the Canary Islands may have been of Berber origin, and the Berbers, the original inhabitants of Northwest Africa, were descendants of the Atlanteans.
In his book of 1970, Atlantology: Basic Problems, Dr. N. Th. Zhirov, Professor of Chemical Sciences in the Soviet Union, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge’s Dolphin Ridge, was above sea level in BC 10,000. The book is one of the most serious studies ever done to produce geological proof that Atlantis really existed. There are over eight-hundred references cited in the thirty-five page bibliography, including early Russian classical sources. Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents; structure of mountains and submarine ridges; seismic processes; cosmological influences; tectonic origins; the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna; and changes produced by the Gulf Stream.
In 1972, Ludwick Zajdler published Atlantyda (Warsaw, 3rd edition). Interest in Poland was so strong that there were 30,000 copies of third edition of the book run off, a figure which equaled all of the books on Atlantis published in Britain and the United States during the last twenty years.
The study of Atlantis has never been a mainstream occupation, yet dedicated researchers continue to explore and patiently seek that one crucial discovery which will finally prove the existence of the legendary Atlantis.

Scientific Atlantology and the Egerton Sykes Collection (at the A.R.E. Library at Virginia Beach, Va.)
Egerton Sykes' personal library -- the result of sixty years of collecting -- travelled across the Atlantic Ocean to the Association for Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.) in Virginia Beach, where it resides today in the third study carrel of the A.R.E. Library as The Egerton Sykes Collection. Guaranteed to intrigue, the Egerton Sykes Collection, which includes over 6000 books (volumes in fifteen different languages on a dazzling variety of topics), magazines, pamphlets, slides, tapes, personal letters, unpublished manuscripts, fascinating photographs, newspaper clippings, and Sykes personal card index, is an enchanting treasure and most definitely worth a visit. The Collection has never been appraised by a rare book dealer and could not be duplicated at any price. Check out the A.R.E. at http://www.edgarcayce.org.


http://www.seachild.net/products225399.html


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 10, 2007, 02:55:44 am
• The Internet Classics Archive Critias, by Plato: Widely acknowledged to be
the first written documentation of the Atlantis civilization.
• Theories on the Location of Atlantis Summaries of several books and theories.
• A.R.E.-Ancient Civilizations: Atlantis and Egypt Material from Edgar Cayce regarding the lost continent of Atlantis and records of its existence.
• Atlantis-Fact, Fiction or Exaggeration? The story and accounts dating back
to Plato's writings, theories, location, timeline of the search for Atlantis, reference material.
• Atlantis- the Lost Continent Finally Found A new theory of its existence in the South China Sea with FAQ's, scientific evidence, documentation in myths and religion, more.
• Atlantis the final solution? An interview with Alan F. Alford, who suggests that we have been searching for Atlantis on the wrong planet.
• Atlantis, Mu and Lemuria Ancient Developed Cultures; Looking behind the myths.
• History of the Golden Ages Discussion of ruins found in the 50's, 60's and 70's, map evidence, ancient writings about Atlantis, philosophical analysis of history.
• Atlantis The mythology behind the legend.
• Atlantis: The Great Lost Civilization Discussion of the possibility of the Atlantian civilization's existence from 10,000-50,000 b.c.
• Atlantis: Ice Age Civilization Viatcheslav Koudriavtsev's hypothesis--very
extensive, detailed information suggesting that Plato's Atlantis was located on the Celtic shelf in the NE Atlantic.
• Atlantis...Thera? Presents evidence that Minoan Crete and the surrounding islands bear a resemblance to Plato's Atlantis.

http://www.floridasmart.com/subjects/ocean/mystery.htm


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 10, 2007, 04:51:37 am
Hi Carolyn,

Thank you for reminding us of the valuable contributions that Egerton Sykes made to Atlantology.  I've noticed that many of our current theorists don't give credit to those who had the same ideas long before.  There is nothing new under the sun.




Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 12, 2007, 07:30:01 pm
Hi Carolyn ,Tom

I only just noticed this category " Scientific Atlantis ",  This will be my home from now on  ;D

Yes Sykes is considered to be the Atlantologist of the first half of the 20th century. He was a great collector of Atlantis books.

If I could make a suggestion. I think Athanasius Kircher with who published a map of Atlantis in the 17th century is the first Atlantologist.Although only technically.

 It's fair to say modern Atlantology starts with Donnelly.  Is that right??


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 12, 2007, 08:37:11 pm
I can't think of anyone else who could carry that title other than Donnelly.


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 13, 2007, 12:06:14 am
Hi Carolyn,

Thank you for reminding us of the valuable contributions that Egerton Sykes made to Atlantology.  I've noticed that many of our current theorists don't give credit to those who had the same ideas long before.  There is nothing new under the sun.




Thanks, Tom if you're referering to GEORGEOS, you're right!  Some peple think that they INVENTED ATLANTOLOGY!!


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 13, 2007, 12:13:33 am
Hi Carolyn ,Tom

I only just noticed this category " Scientific Atlantis ",  This will be my home from now on  ;D

Yes Sykes is considered to be the Atlantologist of the first half of the 20th century. He was a great collector of Atlantis books.

If I could make a suggestion. I think Athanasius Kircher with who published a map of Atlantis in the 17th century is the first Atlantologist.Although only technically.

 It's fair to say modern Atlantology starts with Donnelly.  Is that right??

Dang, Mark!  You just gave me another clue to follow.  It never occurred to me to investigate Kircher until you brought him up - I just thought he was some Jesuit priest that found an old map!  Turns out, he was very important.

Check out this:

(http://www.inquiring-mines.com/images/lost_continents/atlantis_map_by_athanasius_kircher.gif)

Kircher's Atlantis Map
 

In 1665, German priest - Jesuit, Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680), published "Mundus Subterraneus", a massive book which included the reproduction of an ancient Egyptian map of Atlantis. The original map was taken away from Egypt by the Romans, probably after the completion of Cleopatra's rule. Cleopatra was the last pharaonic ruler of Egypt before it fell to Rome in 30 B.C.

Inscriptions on the map:  America, Atlantic ocean, Atlantis, Africa, Spain.

Upper left-hand corner reads:

Situs
Infula Atlantis, a
Mari ohm abforpte ex
mento Egyptiorum et
Plantonis deferptio.


which translates to:  "Site of Atlantis now beneath the sea according to the beliefs of the Egyptians and the description of Plato."

Can you, or anyone vouch for the statement of how Kircher came into possession of this map? Did it really come from the Egyptians?  Cause, if it did, that is further corroboration that the Egyptians had a version of the Atlantis story, too, as it seems that they did! 


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 13, 2007, 05:13:18 am
Yeah ,sorry bout that Carolyn  :P

Seriously, I think Kircher's map is extremely important,Especially since he was considered the most learned man in his day.

I read in a book by Colin Wilson that Kircher claimed the map was taken from Egypt by Julius Caesar ,it would seem that he took it from the Library of Alexandria.Apparently part of the library was damaged in the conquest and Caesar is reputed to have lectured the locals for resisting him,saying that the library would not have been damaged if you did'nt resist.! I am not sure of the source for that apocryphal story ,can someone help out ??

Kirchers claims must be from the book that his map came from ,Mundus Subterraneous. I can't find a copy anywhere.


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 13, 2007, 07:45:18 am
Hi Carolyn,

Thank you for reminding us of the valuable contributions that Egerton Sykes made to Atlantology.  I've noticed that many of our current theorists don't give credit to those who had the same ideas long before.  There is nothing new under the sun.




Thanks, Tom if you're referering to GEORGEOS, you're right!  Some peple think that they INVENTED ATLANTOLOGY!!

No, I meant it as a general observation, but now that you mention it, he certainly would be one of the most egregious examples.


Title: !
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 14, 2007, 01:14:01 am
Yeah ,sorry bout that Carolyn  :P

Seriously, I think Kircher's map is extremely important,Especially since he was considered the most learned man in his day.

I read in a book by Colin Wilson that Kircher claimed the map was taken from Egypt by Julius Caesar ,it would seem that he took it from the Library of Alexandria.Apparently part of the library was damaged in the conquest and Caesar is reputed to have lectured the locals for resisting him,saying that the library would not have been damaged if you did'nt resist.! I am not sure of the source for that apocryphal story ,can someone help out ??

Kirchers claims must be from the book that his map came from ,Mundus Subterraneous. I can't find a copy anywhere.


Thanks for the info, Mark!  It sounds like one of those funky myths sort of how we came across the Emerald Tablet of Thoth, but it is worth looking into! 

Everyone remember, in 1669, Atlantis was just a way distant memory, how and why did this map just appear out of nowhere, shortly after the discovery of America?

Anyone have anymore info on it, print it here!


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on April 14, 2007, 01:15:56 am
Hi Carolyn,

Thank you for reminding us of the valuable contributions that Egerton Sykes made to Atlantology.  I've noticed that many of our current theorists don't give credit to those who had the same ideas long before.  There is nothing new under the sun.




Thanks, Tom if you're referering to GEORGEOS, you're right!  Some peple think that they INVENTED ATLANTOLOGY!!

No, I meant it as a general observation, but now that you mention it, he certainly would be one of the most egregious examples.


Didn't you know that Georgeos invented Atlantology, Tom??

The rest of us are all a bunch of intellectual vampires out to rip him off, up and including Plato!!!


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: atalante on April 24, 2007, 09:27:53 am
Sir Francis Bacon (1561- 1627 AD) wrote about the "Great Atlantis", and his spin-off utopia which he called the "New Atlantis".  Bacon uses rounded numbers to give an approximate date for the Great Atlantis.  But Francis Bacon is stating that Great Atlantis was at its peak of sailing skills "somewhat" before 1448 BC.

His fictional account states that 60 years have passed since America was discovered (i.e.  60 years after 1492 AD), and also that Great Atlantis was thriving slightly more than 3000 years before that time.  The fictional date for the New Atlantis, 1552 AD, was 10 years before Bacon was born.
 
http://www.rosicrucian.org/publications/digest/digest2006/articles_pdf/new_atlantis.pdf
 
You shall understand (that which perhaps you will scarce think credible) that about 3,000 years ago, or somewhat more, the navigation of the world (especially for remote voyages) was greater than at this day. Do not think with yourselves, that I know not how much it is increased with you, within these THREESCORE years; I know it well, and yet I say, greater then than now; whether it was, that the example of the ark, that saved the remnant of people from the universal deluge, gave them confidence to venture upon the waters, or what it was; but such is the truth. The Phoenicians, and especially the Tyrians, had great fleets; so had the Carthaginians their colony, which is yet farther west. Toward the east the shipping of Egypt, and of Palestine, was likewise great. China also, and the great Atlantis (that you call America)....abounded then in tall ships.
 
endquote


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: BlueHue on July 02, 2007, 09:20:51 am
Hi Carolyn ,Tom

Sykes is considered to be the Atlantologist of the first half of the 20th century. He was a great collector of Atlantis books.

Dang, Mark!  investigate Kircher map!  Turns out, he was very important.Check out this:

(http://www.inquiring-mines.com/images/lost_continents/atlantis_map_by_athanasius_kircher.gif)

Kircher's Atlantis Map
 

In 1665, German priest - Jesuit, Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680), published "Mundus Subterraneus", a massive book which included the reproduction of an ancient Egyptian map of Atlantis. The original map was taken away from Egypt by the Romans, probably after the completion of Cleopatra's rule. Cleopatra was the last pharaonic ruler of Egypt before it fell to Rome in 30 B.C.

Inscriptions on the map:  America, Atlantic ocean, Atlantis, Africa, Spain.

which translates to:  "Site of Atlantis now beneath the sea according to the beliefs of the Egyptians and the description of Plato."

Can you, or anyone vouch for the statement of how Kircher came into possession of this map? Did it really come from the Egyptians?  Cause, if it did, that is further corroboration that the Egyptians had a version of the Atlantis story, too, as it seems that they did! 


DEAR  Miss CAROLYNE    SILVER,  dd. 2-July- 2007


 Although |You are a Hero-Member with 200 Posts I have not met you in Conversations before I joined this year.


Most of my family thinks lowly of Atlantis or are not intrested, because there are better things to have as a hobby they say, and throw away my Text-Source-books, to wise me up.

I hope thus that your Quest for an egyptian origin of Atlantis is genuine, because Atlantis was a DEAD MAN's HAND part of Egypt( In ADEN=Yemen=Mittany.)


Ancient Egypt in 2000 bc comprised the Modern-Egypt and inaddition, Sudan, both Somalilands and Arabia-FOËLIX and briefly South-INDIA under an Egyptian female General, that became a GODDESS in India under the name CHAMUNDA and also as the GREEN-TARA, her Daughter who was also a female egyptian General later became  the WHITE-TARA, in Greece she is known as the WHITE-GODDESS LEUKOTHEA.


As I was saying Egypt comprised TWO sections RED Crown NORT & White Crown SOUTH and a THIRD PART called MIDDLE-Egypt which was as I Said in the DEAD-MAN's HAND Section thus the Lands of-God-AMUN, in the Bible better known as the HOLY-LAND, it's purpose was only to produce FRANKINCENSE and a pensionado-home for egyptian pensioned-off officials.


In 855 bc the Assyrians took hold of it and it's stored gold treasures and used the proceeds to wage war on their neighbours especially Egypt ( From whom they had gotten it.in the first place.)   On a STELLA(>|Stone-Prism .)we see the Assyrian King SALMANASSER-3 with 2 Kings bowing for him one from Damaskus the other was JEHU of ISRAEL.


ISRAEL the Theocracy was Middle-Egypt wich as ATLANTIS, was the Never-Never-Land or HOILY-LAND.  This General later KING JEHU was betterknown in real life as the Pharaoh HOREMHEB who was a treator to his Brother the Pharaoh ACHNATON.


105 Atlantologists in MELOS-1 in 2005 in Greece voted for Atlantis as an Isle in MID-Atlantic, that may be so but who paints my  amazement if GEORGEOS, pointed out in some Thread at Atlantis rising that Atlantis was NOT in Mid-Atlantic, but in an OFFSHOOT of the World-OCEAN( that Offshoot was called the Atlantic(=Sea.) not the OCEANas a whole.

Odysseus knew it as the Isle of Scheria or the Coastland of ESCHERIA(= FRANKINCFENSE-LAND, inhabited by White Elephant BULLS-of-HELIOS. guarded by Phaethusa and Lampethusa and Mentoetius who warned Atlas-Geryon,  that his cattle was being robbed, by Heracles.


PLATO even goes on in 'Critias'that this Offshoot-Ocean or BRAZ-dfer-MER thus a GULF was compared in size with the rest of the OCEAN, but a narrow butt-ended Harbour.  It was thus at the EXTREMITY of the OCEAN, in the EXTREMITY of that Atlantic-Gulf.   This GULF-of-Atlantis was the GULF -of- ADEN(= God's land of-AD ". )


Sincerely " BlueHue   "



Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: KTCat on July 02, 2007, 06:34:40 pm
Greetings Caroline Silver,

"Didn't you know that Georgeos invented Atlantology, Tom??" LOL...I am sure Tom is aware of that! In fact, I'd bet just about everybody who ever posted on AR was made tediously aware of that... ROFLAMAO!!!


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 03, 2007, 03:57:51 am
Hi KTCat, and welcome to the forum!!!

Hope you like it here!

The only thing Georgeos invented was how to sabotoge his own self-promotion!!!  I have never ever EVER seen anyone who talked himself up so much and put so many people OFF!

Bluehuhe, nice to meetcha! 

Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean, around the Azrores region, so, if and when you come to that conclusion, then we can compare notes!

Like James Bramwell once said, "If it isn't in the Atlantic Ocean, it isn't Atlantis..!"



Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: KTCat on July 03, 2007, 07:46:41 am
Hey guys? Last night I was looking at Kircher's Atlantis Map, and thinking "something doesn't look right." So I looked at my trusty, rusty globe that is well over 60 years old, but at least the continents are correctly placed. If that is supposed to be a map of Atlantis in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, then something sure looks heywire, because America should be on the left, and Africa on the right, unless of course, the poles have flipped...


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: BlueHue on July 03, 2007, 10:14:16 am
Greetings Caroline Silver,
"Didn't you know that Georgeos invented Atlantology, Tom??" LOL...I am sure Tom is aware of that! In fact, I'd bet just about everybody who ever posted on AR was made tediously aware of that... ROFLAMAO!!!

Did 'GEORGEOS' "invent ( modern-)Atlantology ??

Not that I knew of, or it must be a proverbial overstatement,
 
but I do know that in 2003 'GEORGEOS 'Spartel Mudshoal HOAXopublication and his game of Claims with Paleo-Oceanographist Collinna Girard, from the Univ.du midi in France,( of whom no-one had ever heard before, ) did start the Atlantishype, because it could not be a mere coincidence,  every Science magazine in the World 'GEORGEOS 'certainly put Atlantology on the Map albeit with a falsh Location theory.     Sincerely " BlueHue  "


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: BlueHue on July 03, 2007, 11:34:29 am
Hey guys? Last night I was looking at Kircher's Atlantis Map, and thinking "something doesn't look right." So I looked at my trusty, rusty globe that is well over 60 years old, but at least the continents are correctly placed. If that is supposed to be a map of Atlantis in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, then something sure looks heywire, because America should be on the left, and Africa on the right, unless of course, the poles have flipped...

DEAR KCAT,
on KIRCHER's MAP UPSIDE- DOWN. . .



This is precisely my Point that ' COLUMNBUST ' (= a pun on Christopher COLON, which means "Carrier -over the threashold, Fretum of the " Columns or Pillars, of HERCULES " ) Also had an ancient-Arabic- Map on Atlantis ( with the South-in-Top.)


By the printing of This Map Upside Down,  it seemed thus to indicate that America or Mexico was the fabled Atlantis, ( The Moroccans insist that Atlantis lay in Berber-Land becase of the (anti-)ATLAS-Mountains !!)  but If we would re-rotate this Kircher Map of 1667 ( printed in AMSTERDAM.) than the Extreme -East-end location of Atlantis in the extreme end of the Ocean, would be  rather nearer to Europe's Aegean SEA or ARABIA's RED-SEA.


Myth has it that in 1492 on returning home, ' COLOMNA ' heard that King Ferdinand had declared that ( United-)Spain was the apparent HEIR to Atlantis  ( and even Atlantis itselves ),


That's why Ferdinand had new-coins struck with on the Front Himself & Isabella and at the obverse side the Coats-of-Arms of: Asturia-&-Leon & Castillia, inbetween TWO COLUMNS, or Pillars surmounted by a Banderoll with the words " Plus-Ultra " meaning Beyond the Pillars of Hercules.


' COLOMB ' had from the start planned to discover and claim ATLANTIS (= in America.) for himself as vice-Roy, but since Ferdinand had suddenly declared Spain to be HESPERIS/ Atlantis-proper, his discovery of America- as -Atlantis would be' null-and- void ' and futile,


So 'COLUMNBUS 'invented a fib to save himself from ridicule and told the Fib that during the last part of the Voyage, in Spain,  he had lost his itinerary Ships Journal and had to re-write it leaving out all allusions to Atlantis in America, instead he substituted the words Atlantis for " INDIA "


But this was unlucky too because in 1498 Vasco da Gama had found an even shorter way to India.  Amerigo Vespuggi the successor of ' COLUMBUST' as Pilot-Major must have seen his socalled 'l ost Ships-Journal ', because he had a Map issued with the 10-Divisions of Plato's Atlantis drawn over Mexico & South-America. This was reprinted but never officially recognized.


' COLUMNS ' had thought that The Carribean Islands were a part of the mainland forming an longstreched coastal-Peninsula,enclosing a BAY of Brazil- because unlike the 105 Atlantologists at MELOS-1 in 2005 he did read Greek  and noticed that PLATO ( in section CRITIAS.) placed Atlantis in the extremity of an Offshoot off the World-OCEAN, that , compared to the Whole Ocean, only seemed a narrow Harbor.


In Modern NAUTICAL-Terms we would call such a coastal Oceanic-Offshoot a Lagoon or GULF and thus, so did  'COLUMNBUS '  he named the Carribbean SEA a BRAZZO- de- MER or a BRAZ-del-MAR, in Italian probaly: " BRAZILLIO "( thus actually not because Atlantis was the Land of BRAZ(= Auricalchum.)


In America & Brazil/ Mexico the historians and New wave seekers are LOATH to loose the pretence of a possible Atlantis in the ' NEW-World ' and are not keen on re-locating the ' Creadle -of- Civilisation 'and Birthplace of the European Gods, ( back-)to South-Arabia , where it belonged in ADEN/ Yemen.)


What we today call the Atlantic was NOT a part of PLATO's " KNOWN-WORLD " the Original WORLD-OCEAN  cannot run crissCross over the Globe !!


This OIKUMENE-OKEANOS was originally horizontal on All ancient Maps and thus thought to be the Media-Terran-Nean-SEA which is a bad translation for World-Ocean as the SEA that TRANSFERRED -the- LANDS of the Globe.


Adding that Atlantis was not :" as -big -as-" but:  IN-BETWEEN ; Lybia & ASIA(= Major.)makes it most probable that Atlantis was indeed in the Mediaterranea-SEA and Not in the modern ATLANTIC.


The fact that the ancient Cartographers -honestly- added " NEAN " to the term "TERRA(=' World-')Transfering -SEA must have arroused suspicion with any Atlantologist that The Mediterranean-Sea was also NOT the original ' Known-WORLD-SEA ' either.


By simply observing the oldest printed map by HEKATAIOS from 512 bc, we can grab, the problem of the horzontal position of PLATO's ' World-SE'and the fact that the Atlantic is vertical !~!   We can  Clearly see that in PLATO's  time the INDIAN-Ocean was supposed to be transferring the Known-World, with the GULF-of-ADEN as the described horizontall Oceanic Offshoot.


Since ADEN is not an ISLAND although Atlantis was separated from the MAINLAND, by a ( Man-made) Isthmus or Canal, the word NESSOS would not be a proper application or propriete topographic Geo-name.


The problem is - again- in the translation of : RAS- ADEN, as: " RAISED-CITY " (=Terrassed-City.) as a City-raised above water thus a Nessos.  20 RASSES in The Gulf-of-ADEN are former GYUOTS, that by Tectonic activities have been raised by seismic waves above the Sealevel.  ADEN is such a MUD-Vulcano and so is MUSCATE


The Bible and the Greek Myth both gives us the Solution of what sort of Coastal 'Island "Atlantis or the LAND-of- AD actually was: a (coastal- )ATOLL connected to Arabia by a TOMBOLO.


In Greek any Perinsula that is washed on TWO sides, thus a circular and not an rectangular Peninsulae is namesd, as an ACHILEOS, and surely enough,


In Hebrew Paradise-garden -of -EDEN was named in short: ACH-AD as an -unofficial- Abbrevation of ACHI-LEOS of-ADen.


!05 Atlantologists in Melos in 2005 all have missed-out on reading that Part of CRITIAS,where it clearly said that Atlantis was NOT washed by the OCEAN, but by the SEA-of Atlas, thus NOT by the ATLANTIC as in OCEAN.)


' GEORGEOS ' spotted this as first, in 2006,  but after he published his ' MUD-SHOAL- ' Theory, so as a clever man who is not dumb or dense, he must have known- in- Advance that this theory was bogus and he might have done this publication of the socalled THERORY PLAGIARISM in cahoots with Collina Girard,


only to fool the " scientifico- establishment "( of which, as an upstart,  he is so fond to belong to.)On internet I only came across ;' GEORGEOS 'comment, and no written Defence by Collina Girard,  If not for GEORGEOS little Publicity stunt, we may never have known Prof. Collina Girard as an french Oceanographist


Conclusion is :
that at At " MELOS-2 "in 2008,  I will have to let the Atlantologists of year 2005 speak, first,  out-of-respect- of their 105 location-Theories, and than cruelly desillusion them by proving that by ignoring the parameters in CRITIAS they -knowingly-or in feigned ignorance, promoted falsh theories.  I will make myself a hated criminal to the hopefull-futurists  and humanity, by doing that.  But why should I keep silent ?? if I can promote worldpeace by clearing ancient History of false, harmfull- traditions.?!


My Critics all said, that my discovery of these translation Faults is Garbage( Miss VERHOEF Zeist Holland , she even burned 1000 of my collective-item-sourcebooks, when I was on hollyday on July-7-2006.) others were satisfied by calling my discovery of Atlantis-in ADEN,  Crap ( by Miss BIANCA in AO last month.)


I feel slighted, like ' GEORGEOS ' but on a different level maybe I should merge with his panache-press-promotion, but even Discovery-Channel, SCI-FI, nor National-Geographic TV-Channel were intrested in a feature of the  Discovery of " BlueHue's " ATLANTIS- in -ADEN.( with ' GEORGEOS ' as an ankerman.)

PS,
We can't all be Superman, Georgeos Diaz-Montexano is trying to look like one and I want him to promote my Theory-further in accompagny with my fosterfather Basil-VanBemmelen.

I offer my sincere appologies to any Section of Society or individual who feels offended by my discovery of Atlantis.


Sincerely " BlueHue " dd -July-3- 2007    :'(   - :'(  -  :'(


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Tom Hebert on July 03, 2007, 11:37:36 am
Dear BlueHue,

We have explained this to you before.  Georgeos has nothing to do with Dr. Jacques Collina-Girard.  Collina-Girard is an internationally recognized scientist.  Goergeos is a pseudoscientist.  The following article explains the difference:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/atlantis.htm



Greetings Caroline Silver,
"Didn't you know that Georgeos invented Atlantology, Tom??" LOL...I am sure Tom is aware of that! In fact, I'd bet just about everybody who ever posted on AR was made tediously aware of that... ROFLAMAO!!!

Did 'GEORGEOS' "invent ( modern-)Atlantology ??

Not that I knew of, or it must be a proverbial overstatement,
 
but I do know that in 2003 'GEORGEOS 'Spartel Mudshoal HOAXopublication and his game of Claims with Paleo-Oceanographist Collinna Girard, from the Univ.du midi in France,( of whom no-one had ever heard before, ) did start the Atlantishype, because it could not be a mere coincidence,  every Science magazine in the World 'GEORGEOS 'certainly put Atlantology on the Map albeit with a falsh Location theory.     Sincerely " BlueHue  "


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: KTCat on July 03, 2007, 12:01:35 pm
BlueHue,

Dear, most of us here can be very sympathetic to the fact that you have some memory loss, and I don't think anyone will make fun of you for that, or I certainly hope they don't.  But you do forget things. So, rather than subject all of us to the same arguement over and over again, will you please print this out and tape it to your computer, and read it before you make another post concerning Georgeo. He is simply an inside joke among people who regularly posted on another forum.

Quote
Georgeos has nothing to do with Dr. Jacques Collina-Girard.


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: BlueHue on July 03, 2007, 01:29:06 pm
GEORGEOS(= JORGE DIAZ-SANCHEZ.) has nothing to do with Dr. Jacques Collina-Girard.  Collina-Girard is an internationally recognized scientist.  Georgeos is a pseudoscientist.  The following article explains the difference:http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/atlantis.htm
Greetings Caroline Silver,
"Didn't you know that Georgeos invented Atlantology, Tom??" LOL...that... ROFLAMAO!!!

game of Claims with Paleo-Oceanographist Collinna Girard, from the Univ.du Midi in France,( of whom no-Layman,  had ever heard before, ) did start the  current-Atlantis-hype, which indeed put him briefly in the 'limeLight' ,  every Science magazine in the World  published the Polemic dispute albeit with a falsh Location theory.     Sincerely " BlueHue  "

 :) THANK YOU  TOM HERBERT, for your LINK above.


In 2003 I had no access to the Email-Adresses of either Jorge Diaz or Collinna-Girard, So I searched in Google.nl for their Emailto addresses. and sent them an Email(=file-Attachment.) which neither answered.  ( This was two years before SPAM-began to creep in the Email-bussiness, but maybe my Email Caption: "ATLANTIS-not-in-the-Atlantic-but-in -GULF-of-Aden "
made them think that it was not worth answering my message( I made the summary in French.)


Since 2003,  I have forgotten what the EMAIL-Address of the French University du MIDI was, I could not decide which Departement I had to write to and maybe at the time Collina's Email Address was temporarily barred from access.  Can You retrace this for me Please ??


The undetailled artists impression sketches that appeared as almost ' Filler-items ' in several ( web-)Newspapers in 2003, were indeed not very conclusive for Dr C.G's theory of Mud-Shoal-banks flanking or lining the Atlantic Coasts 10.000 years ago.


Your-Link,
from SCI-FI.com or AR,  says that" it was not important whether these were atlantic isles or not." they were submerged at depht 50 meters, whilst Atlantis was supposed to have drowned at 150 M. deptht, so that part of the Theory struck me as verry odd for an Atlantis-Claim.


Because that would mean that Either Collina Girard or Jorge DIAZ would want us to believe that Their "Atlantis " was burried undernieve a pile of shifting Mud 100 meters high-undisturbed-since 10.000 bc and


if it were " Part-of-a-LAND-bridge or Bosphoros, " the water from the mediateranean Sea must have washed it away from it's original location spreading it out on the Sea-Floor-Canyon at Tangiers.


And about the rate of that SEA-Level-rise that ' sunk '  Atlantis and the rate of that Rise since " Late-Quarternary times" no information was provided, and no Link to check this either.


 :P Would it not be nice,  
if we could see the work of Prof.Collina-Girard on this subject in more Detaill, or since I am a latecomer maybe,  I have missed-out on  the Forum's discussions of Collin's discovery or they were overshadowed by JORGE's Diaz's Claim to fame ??


Can it be that the Pictures of Collina Girard at his work-desk in the University's office, already belong to the "  :-X OLD-FILES " at Atlantis-Rising ??    Sorry,  for all these:" Old-Hat " questions.


Sincerely " BlueHue "     :'(-  :'(-  :'(


PS

 ' JORGE 'Diaz-Sanchez, alias'GEORGEOS ' ( or Maria Valdemayor etc.) may be a Scoundrel or Rascal or a Pseudoscientist or just a Tourist-Day-trip-Chauffeur in Cuba, but he seems to me to be an aimiable one.    Bear with me, I think that ' GEORGEOS '/ Jorge ' strongly reminds me of the Fake tourist-AntiquePlates Greek--Salesman at the TOPKAPI-Museum, played by his-then- likeness Peter-USTINOV.  ( I have forgotten though, what that Film was about, only Peter Ustinov as a -good- underdog-Character Actor, stayed in my mind.) dd July-3- 2007


Title: Re: HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Post by: Tom Hebert on July 03, 2007, 04:39:34 pm
Hi BlueHue,

Regarding you P.S.,  yes I do see the resemblance in more ways than one!  You have an excellent long-term memory.

I watched "Topkapi" as a teen-ager but had forgotten all about it.  I always thought Ustinov was a great actor.