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Atlantis => Atlantis & the Atlantic Ocean => Topic started by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:39:32 pm



Title: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:39:32 pm
The purpose of this thread is to place Atlantis back where it belongs, squarely in the Atlantic Ocean. After becoming familiar with most of the theories, both here and in the literary world, I have to say I still haven't seen anyone to compare with the original placement, in the Atlantic. Believe me, I know all the arguments for placing it in the Mediterranean and they don't hold water, so to speak! We may even go over the weaknesses of some of them here. Some researchers try to get around that by placing the "Pillars of Hercules" in other areas and say that Plato meant to situate them differently, near Greece or the Dardanelles. To that, I'll quote Andrew Collins who says, "every classical historian or geographer who mentions the Pillars of Hercules places them first and foremost at the entrance to the Atlantic Ocean." There are two choices here, to my way of thinking anyway, either Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean or it didn't exist at all.
Here, I'd like to investigate the Atlantis story as far east as Gibralter, as far west as America, as far north as Greenland, as far south as Antarctica.

"Either Atlantis is an island in the Atlantic or it's not Atlantis at all." -James Bramwell, Lost Atlantis, 1937



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:40:18 pm
There are several ways that Atlantis might have existed:
1. The raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
2. Atlantis, like Surtsey, could have been one of the many volcanic islands "spit out" by the volatile Atlantic, then taken back at a later date.
3. Laurasia, this would imply a much older Atlantis, perhaps. There certainly is a "piece" missing from the continental plates between North America and Europe.
4. The water levels being lower during the Ice Age, Atlantis could have been simply a larger version of one of the island chains we still have in the Atlantic now - the Azores, Madeiras, Cape Verde, Canaries, etc.
5. An area of the Atlantic that takes in the Azores, Canaries, Madeiras all at once and may have been of continental size.
6. Cuba, along with a larger area of the Bahamas.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:41:05 pm
Atlantic Ocean
Ocean lying between Europe and Africa to the east and the Americas to the west; area of basin 81,500,000 sq km/31,500,000 sq mi; including the Arctic Ocean and Antarctic seas, 106,200,000 sq km/41,000,000 sq mi. It is generally divided by the Equator into the North Atlantic and South Atlantic. It was probably named after the legendary island continent of Atlantis. The average depth is 3 km/2 mi; greatest depth is at the Milwaukee Depth in the Puerto Rico Trench 8,648 m/28,374 ft. The Mid-Atlantic Ridge, of which the Azores, Ascension, St Helena, and Tristan da Cunha form part, divides it from north to south. Lava welling up from this central area annually increases the distance between South America and Africa. The North Atlantic is the saltiest of the main oceans and has the largest tidal range.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009503.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:42:29 pm
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

quote:
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Ancient Egyptian Writings
(Miscellaneous Observations)

THOTH


Scattered though the references may be, an interesting picture emerges from the numerous references to Thoth in the writings of the ancient Egyptians. And that picture fits the theory of an Atlantean origin for this intriguing character.

Thoth was born in a distant country to the west which was across a body of water. Its main city was by the sea (Plato's metropolis). The land possessed volcanos and, like Atlantis, had a low mountain or large hill in the center. This land is sometimes referred to as the Isle of Flame. (Book of the Dead, Hymn of Rameses IV and Pyramid Texts)

A catastrophe occurred which darkened the sun and disturbed the gods, but Thoth led them across the sea to an eastern country [Egypt]. Thoth is depicted as the "controller of the Flood," (Leyden Papyrus) and the Theban Recension includes the Island of Flame in the Flood story. (Papyrus of Ani, Chap. CLXXV)

In Chapter LXXXV of the Book of the Dead, Thoth rules the "Western Domain," and by the end of the New Kingdom he is called "Lord of the West". (Seth, 1912) Thoth is said to be the inventor of writing, astronomy, and civilization in general. The question is pertinent: Was Thoth an Atlantean?

THE FLOOD

Nu, the Egyptian god of the Primeval Sea, is represented on the marble sarcophagus of Seti I as being up to his waist in water with arms upraised to carry the Solar Boat across the Sky. He is said to have held the royal occupants of this boat above the flood waters engulfing their mountainous island home in the West. Nu had been ordered to bring about this very flood by Atum in order to purify the world (Budge, 1960). Does this primeval flood scene depict the first migration from the Lands of the West to Egypt because of the inundation of Atlantis?


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:43:18 pm
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

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THE LAND OF THE WEST

Secondly, I noticed that Manetho says that the Egyptian god-kings (which I believe to be identical with the ten kings who ruled Atlantis) reigned in a foreign land. The Egyptian hieroglyph set which is commonly translated "foreign land" is extremely interesting.

Set: can mean foreign land, mountainous
land, or the underworld (Inscription
of Anebni, 18th Dynasty)

Amentet: can mean either West, or
Land of the West (Funeral Stele of
Panehesi, 19th Dynasty)

Now the "Land of the West" would be a natural Egyptian name for Atlantis. The Atlantic Ocean was referred to as the "Western Ocean". Did Manetho translate "foreign land" from this glyph? If so, we probably have ourselves a reference to Atlantis in the writings of Manetho. There were no mountains in western Egypt, yet this glyph represented a mountainous land to the west of Egypt.

That the glyph set also represented the "underworld," also fits, since this is the land where the sun shines after it has set (no pun intended) on the land of Egypt. It was believed in popular Egyptian mythology that the sun passed through the underworld on its way back to rise once more in the east.

We therefore have a glyph representing a western, mountainous land, a land where the sun went after it had set on Egypt, and whose earliest rulers were probably called "Auliteans" or "Aleteans". To top it off the reign of these kings ended around 9850 B.C. A lot of coincidences.

The famed zodiac in the temple of Hathor at Denderah begins with the constellation Leo registering the beginning of a new cycle. Could this signify a time of renewal of the earth: a beginning of a new cycle after a tremendous geological cataclysm accompanying the fall of the Atlantean empire and the end of the "reign of the gods"?


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:45:59 pm
THE AZORES:

(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/location.gif)
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Introduction

There are nine main islands spanning 400 miles of ocean. Furthest west lie the remote and small Corvo and Flores, then Sao Jorge, Pico and Faial lie close together and are conveniently served by ferries. Pico and Sao Jorge are for the nature and wilderness lover the most attractive. This is where our guided trek is located. Just north of these three lies Graciosa and slightly further to the east Terceira. Finally, at the east end of the archipelago, lie Sao Miguel and Santa Maria.

Ponta Delgada, the capital of the Azores, is located on Sao Miguel, the largest of the islands and the most populous. Most visitors fly in here and then take local flights to reach other islands.

(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/fogo.jpg)

There are several excellent walks on the islands, much through unspoilt country, the people are friendly and crime virtually unheard of. Small villages with narrow streets are dotted along the coast and on the hillsides-tops and in almost every direction there are beautiful panoramas of the coastline and the blue Atlantic. At present there are still only a few hotels on the islands and tourism is in its infancy, it is still possible to walk on mountain paths without seeing other people. Many of the paths are not well marked and some older paths have become overgrown by the vigorous growing Himalayan ginger.

In addition to the coastal scenery, mountains and lakes, the town of Furnas on Sao Miguel stands out as a unique location lying at the base of an ancient crater. In the middle of the old town is a magnificent and extensive botanical garden. There are several hot springs and hot bathing pools in and around Furnas, the largest being located at the heart of the botanical gardens.

Our trips

We organise guided and unguided private trips which are all based at high quality hotels. One of our guided scheduled trips takes in the best walks on four islands and includes an ascent of Pico - at 2351m the highest summit in the Azores and in fact in Portugal. The ascent of Pico involves walking up rough steep paths but is not technically difficult. It is not allowed to make the ascent without a qualified guide.

Another scheduled trip combines three of the best walks on São Miguel staying a few days in Furnas and the rest in a luxury hotel at the coast.

Climate and Weather

The average coastal temperatures in July and August are about 25°C and in January 15°C. July and August are dry months with little rain and frequently blue skies. During the winter months occasional storms are to be expected. At all times of the year the humidity can be quite high. The ocean temperatures range from 24°C in August and September to 16°C in January and February.
 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:47:23 pm
(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/Horta_Faial.jpg)

Azores History

Plato's research suggested to him that Atlantis was a land of seafarers who fought wars against Mediterranean peoples and came from beyond the Pillars of Hercules. Atlantis was supposed to be a great island with a giant natural harbour and city of concentric circles. The land sank in about 9,400 BC leaving only scattered islands.
The Azores could be the remnants of the lost world of Atlantis. The beautifully located town of Sete Cidades on Sao Miguel island is named after the seven cities of Atlantis. Further credence is added to this theory from more recent history, in 1811 a new volcanic island was formed and claimed by the British. It was named Sabrina after the ship commanded by Captain Tillard. However the British presence in the Azores was short-lived as the island soon thereafter vanished back under the waves.

For most of recent history the islands have been controlled by the Portuguese and only recently have they gained a degree of autonomy. Though varied they are all basically volcanic in character. Volcanoes, craters, some with beautiful lakes, hot springs and high cliffs abound. The maritime climate combined with rich volcanic soils results in a year-round green carpet of forests and meadows. Heathers, hydrangeas, Himalayan ginger and a wide variety of subtropical and some tropical plants cover the hillsides.

http://www.ewpnet.com/Azores.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:49:17 pm
(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/stepping_stones.jpg)

Furnas Botanical Gardens

(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/Lagoa_do_Capitao.jpg)

Lagoa do Capitao, Pico

(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/furnas_ginger.jpg)

Furnas and Himalayan Ginger


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:51:09 pm
GEOLOOGY OF THE AZORES

(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/geology.gif)

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The Azores are entirely of volcanic origin. They have been created by outpourings of lava from the ocean floor. The high level of activity in the area is a result of three major tectonic plates meeting here. The North American Plate to the northwest of the Azores is gradually drifting west, the Euroasian Plate to the northeast is drifting east and south and finally the African Plate is drifting east and north. The small Azores Microplate, which is drifting westwards, further complicates the picture. Where the plates pull apart (diverge) lava outpourings have created mid-oceanic ridges, the highest parts of these rise out of the sea to create volcanic islands. The mid-Atlantic ridge on which the Azores lie extends for 16,000 km. and islands along its length include Iceland.
The oldest of the islands, Santa Maria, was formed some 7 million years ago and then sank and reappeared. As a result it is the only island to have appreciable marine fossils in its rocks. The youngest island is Pico. it was mainly formed some 300 thousand years ago. There was an even younger island - Sabrina - not far off from Sao Miguel that appeared in 1811 and was claimed by the British but sadly it vanished under the oceans just a few months later.


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http://www.ewpnet.com/azores/geology.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:52:34 pm
There was an even younger island - Sabrina - not far off from Sao Miguel that appeared in 1811 and was claimed by the British but sadly it vanished under the oceans just a few months later.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet another Atlantic Island that was reclaimed by the ocean again.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:54:14 pm
Here is more of the flora and fauna of the Azores, courtesy of Antonio Pedroso.

http://www.ewpnet.com/azores/flora.htm


(http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora1.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora2.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora5.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora6.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora7.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora8.jpg)  (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora3.jpg) (http://www.ewpnet.co.uk/azores/flora4.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 03:59:47 pm
Plato mentions elephants in Critias. The remains of Woolly Mammoths and Mastadons have washed up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

(The following information may be outdated:)

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Paleontology.html

quote:
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PALEONTOLOGICAL
TESTIMONY
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Pleistocene Extinction

Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individual animals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).


Moreover, there is evidence of large geological changes which took place, such as massive volcanism, numerous earthquakes, tidal waves, to say nothing of the glacial melting which raised sea-levels several hundred feet worldwide. It's beginning to look like the Pleistocene Epoch didn't tippy-toe out silently, but rather ended with a large roar. Geologists and Paleontologists have an innate distaste for catastrophism, and that's understandable. Catastrophists, who in the beginning were identifying every strata of sediment with a worldwide flood, layer upon layer, almost totally discredited the field of geology--and uniformitarianism pulled the science out of the fire. But now, scientists in both fields are gradually realizing that both catastrophism and uniformitarianism (or gradualism) are at work in nature, and that everything can't be explained using one or the other alone (Gould, 1975). One of the indicators of the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both hemispheres: Canada and Alaska in the western, and Northern Russian and Siberia in the eastern.

THE AMERICAN REMAINS

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains. The remains he found were not human, but what he found was anything but evidence of gradualism or uniformitarianism. Instead he found miles of muck filled with the remains of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. Just north of Fairbanks, Hibbens and his associates watched as bulldozers pushed the half-melted muck into sluice boxes for the extraction of gold. Animal tusks and bones rolled up in front of the blades "like shavings before a giant plane". The carcasses were found in all attitudes of death, most of them "pulled apart by some unexplainable prehistoric catastrophic disturbance" (Hibben, 1946).


The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass. The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen (Sanderson, 1960). But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.


Paleontologist George G. Simpson considers the extinction of the Pleistocene horse in north America to be one of the most mysterious episodes in zoological history, admitting that in all honesty no one knows the answer. He also admits that this is only a part of the larger problem of the extinction of many other species in America at the same time (Simpson, 1961). The horse is merely the tip of the iceberg: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. They weren't wiped out because Alaska and Siberia were experiencing an Ice Age. "Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question," say leading Paleontologists (Martin & Guilday, 1967).


Woolly mammoths, woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, giant ground sloths and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while whole mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died on a global scale, at about the same time, circa. 10,000 B.C.

FROZEN ANIMALS IN SIBERIA

The picture in Siberia and northern Europe is no different. Just north of Siberia whole islands are formed of the bones of Pleistocene animals swept northward from the continent into the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean. It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth and undigested food in its stomach. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!

(http://www.atlantisquest.com/mammoth5.jpg)

And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).


Geologists are once more becoming divided on the issue of catastrophism. A few are breaking away from their hard stand of the past, and are at looking at the problem with more of an open mind. Mr. Harold P. Lippman seems to be objective when he admits that the magnitude of fossils and tusks encased in the Siberian permafrost present an "insuperable difficulty" to uniformitarianism alone, since no gradual process can result in the preservation of tens of thousands of tusks and whole individuals, "even if they died in winter" (Lippman, 1962). Especially when many of these individuals have undigested grasses and leaves in their belly.


Certain misguided workers have vainly suggested that man was the cause of all this death and destruction. In the first place, the remains of the animals outnumber the remains of man a million to one. There is no way the populations of man could have killed this many animals. Some Pleistocene bone sites obviously represent the efforts of Big Game Hunters: fire was sometimes used to drive a herd of animals over a cliff or into a bog to be slaughtered for food. In these instances, the hand of man is rather obvious. Prof. N. K. Vereschagin of the then Soviet Union states bluntly: "The accumulation of mammoth bones and carcasses of mammoth, rhinoceros, and bison found in frozen ground in Indigirka, Lolyma, and Novosibirsk bear no traces of hunting of primitive man" (Vereschagin, 1967).

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".


Watching them cut the huge block of muck-filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolly mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in his stomach!


Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet at the very end of the Pleistocene.


Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity (see my Archeology page: Tiahuanacu) and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).


More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).


So it seems the last Ice Age, the Pleistocene Epoch, the Upper Paleolithic Age, and the "reign of the gods" in Egyptian history all ended at about the same time. It appears to me that the evidence, when taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe (from whatever cause) which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch. Can it be merely coincidence that this is the very date (circa. 10,000 B.C.) indicated by Plato for the floods and seismic disturbances which led to the sinking of Atlantis and the destruction of its empire?


* TOP of Page

Bibliography

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969.
Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961.
Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977.
Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946.
Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979.
Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969.
Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967.
Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, January 16, 1960.
Simpson, George G., "Horses," New York, 1961.
Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, J., editors), New Haven, 1967.


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:09:00 pm
From Andrew Collins (Gateway to Atlantis):
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/interactive/midatlan.htm

Atlantis in the Mid-Atlantic   
 
A very plausible solution to the Atlantis mystery is that Plato's Atlantic Island was located in the Mid-Atlantic and that the island chain known as the Azores are its surviving remnants. This cluster of nine main islands is located amid a chain of underwater mountains that rise to heights in excess of 9000 metres. They form part of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which defines the division between tectonic plates, aligned approximately north-south beneath the ocean floor for some 17,600 kilometres. It is the tips of the very highest of these subterranean mountains that protrude from the ocean floor as the principal islands of the Azores, which are themselves endowed with sizeable mountains that soar to a height in excess of 2100 metres. 
   
Perhaps the most important writer to propose that the Azores were remnants of an Atlantean island continent was Ignatius Donnelly, author of the seminal classic Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, first published in 1882. This American congressman set down the foundations for the thousands of books and articles that have been written on the subject of Atlantis over the past 120 years. Although Donnelly's book has seen countless reprints, much of what he had to say about Atlantis being an antediluvial motherland for the diffusion of civilisation on both sides of the Atlantic has since been proved incorrect. 
     
  Despite this drawback, Donnelly's original thesis of a central Atlantean landmass has been perpetuated by a number of well-respected scholars of the Atlantis mystery. They include Russian academic Nikolai Zhirov. In the 1960s he wrote a series of papers on the subject, as well as a definitive book entitled Atlantis - Atlantology: Basic Problems, published in 1970. Like Donnelly, he argued that the former Atlantean landmass lay in the vicinity of the Azores and that, before it sank without trace, it acted as a land-bridge for the migration of flora and fauna between Africa and the Americas. 
     
  Christian O'Brien, a retired industrial geologist, archaeologist and historical writer, has also tackled the concept of a mid-Atlantic continent having once existed in the vicinity of the Azores. In his 1997 book The Shining Ones - co-authored with his wife Barbara Joy - he proposed that the Azorean landmass, as he sees it, suffered immense cataclysms and eventually sank into the earth's liquid magma, leaving only the Azores as hard evidence of its former existence. The discovery of six fields of hot springs in the vicinity of the Azores is, he postulates, firm evidence of this hypothesis. 
   


  During underwater explorations off the island of São Miguel, the largest island in the Azores group, in 1971 Christian O'Brien found clear evidence of an underwater river bed filled with water-worn boulders. By applying detailed contouring methods to hydrographic charts, the O'Briens discerned that rivers draining off the southern slopes of São Miguel once converged together in a huge valley, now situated some 64 kilometres out from the present coastline. Other islands in the Azores group have yielded similar hydrographic anomalies, and in one case the O'Briens even traced a series of river valleys which extended for a distance of 288 kilometres before converging together in a much larger river basin.
   
  With a knowledge of ancient river systems, the O'Briens were able to reconstruct a land profile which revealed an Azorean landmass 'about the size and shape of Spain', with high mountain ranges rising over 3655 metres above sea-level, as well as impressive rivers that run 'in curving valley systems'. Furthermore, they have pointed out that:
 
In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3500 square miles [9065 square kilometres], and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, as we shall see, points in common with a great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the island of Atlantis.


     
  The conclusion drawn from these findings is that the Azores once formed part of a much greater landmass which sank beneath the waves and is now situated 'many thousands of feet' below the current sea-level. To obtain a more substantial insight into this fascinating subject, the O'Briens propose that a scientific team take a series of core samples from the proposed sites of their river channels. They confidently predict that these will show not only evidence of ancient river beds, but also of the freshwater flora and fauna which once thrived on the former Azorean landmass. 
     

These are fascinating insights into the protohistory of the Azores group. Yet there are fundamental problems in accepting the theory of a former Azorean landmass. It is now known, for instance, that the volcanic mountains which constitute the Mid-Atlantic Ridge are of relatively recent composition. They are like age-old geological scars on a gaping wound that never properly heals. The north-south orientated tectonic plates produce an upward flow of magma which constantly creates new underwater mountain systems that are unlikely to have formed part of a geological landmass in the manner described. 
   
In addition to these problems, we must also acknowledge that there is now wide-scale acceptance of the so-called continental drift theory, first proposed in 1915 by the German meteorologist Arthur Wegener. In simple terms, this asserts that many millions of years ago the American and African landmasses were joined together, yet ever since they have been slowly moving apart. Just by making paper cutouts of the different continents and slotting them together we can see they fit snugly, suggesting that the continental drift theory is real. Furthermore, the fact that the American and African continents were once joined together explains much of the flora and fauna they share. 
   
More damning is the fact that when the first Portuguese navigators reached the Azorean islands in 1427, they found them devoid not only of human life but also of any fauna. Even though some evidence has emerged to imply that in the third century BC Carthaginian vessels from North Africa reached Corvo, the westernmost of the Azorean islands, no archaeology has come to light to suggest that the archipelago ever supported an indigenous culture. 
     
  Even if the O'Briens' proposals regarding prehistoric river beds, located off the coast of São Miguel, do prove to be correct it seems unlikely that Plato's Atlantis is the memory of a high culture which once thrived on any proposed Azorean landmass. No evidence of an indigenous culture has ever come to light on any of the islands and there is no reason to assume that Plato's Atlantis account alludes to a landmass of this sort. Even though he did state that Atlantis was the size of Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined, it can be argued that this did not relate to the physical size of the island but to the extent of the dominion held by the kings of Atlantis. This can be determined from the Critias, where Plato refers specifically to a much smaller, east-west orientated landmass that cannot have been any more than 600 kilometres in width (see the entry for the Americas).

Donnelly, Ignatius, Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, 1882, Harper, New York/London, 1902
Muck, Otto, The Secret of Atlantis, 1976, Collins, London, 1978
O'Brien, Christian & Barbara Joy O'Brien, The Shining Ones, Dianthus Publishing, Kemble, Cirencester, Glos., 1997
Zhirov, N. F., Atlantis - Atlantology: Basic Problems, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1970
   
 




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:16:49 pm
SURVEY OF ATLANTIS

A brief compilation of evidence to encourage further scientific research and analysis of the issues by specialists to prove or disprove the O'Brien thesis of the recent existence of a large Mid-Atlantis Ridge island centred on the Azores.

A Reconstruction of the Main Island of Plato's Atlantis - Christian O'Brien - 18th February 1985 - Widdington - Essex - England



(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/platoillustration2.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:20:36 pm
A Reconstruction of the Main Island of Plato's Atlantis - Christian O'Brien - 18th February 1985 - Widdington - Essex - England

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/PlatosAt100.jpg)

INTRODUCTION

Christian O'Brien in Chapter 18 of The Shining Ones features the basic historical and geological evidence which identifies the Azores as the site of the Island of Atlantis. In an outstanding career as exploration geologist he is no stranger to successfully challenging established perceptions and raises the key issue of the deep crustal rifting associated with such flood basalt constructions.

He has produced the survey of the Island, shown within the attached documents taken from Admiralty Charts, which have now been superseded by the more accurate Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map also shown. Further detailed hydrographic input is required in order to present a even clearer picture to allow further studies and the siting for new sediment cores in un-disturbed areas.

The technology needed to prove or disprove the Atlantis issue is now available. Science has reached the point of being able to understand both the creation of' such large structures and the subsequent catastrophic movements in the earths crust, which have destroyed them. Finding and dating the remains of fresh water life at depths of up to 4000 metres, finding coral, sandy beaches and volcanic material below sea level and identifying former river valleys is within reach and we look forward to providing further news on this subject later in the year.

So far this century there has been a confirmed report of a one mile rise in the floor of the ocean 576 miles north of Azores when a trans-atlantic cable broke. Dr David F. Zhirov in 1970 reported sand beaches and coral at a depths of 2 miles south of the Azores. Confirmed evidence exists that sections of the Mid-Atlantic ridge have been above sea level in the past and fresh water diatoms have been found 2 miles down in the Azores area dated 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

Volcanic material described as un-dissolved tachylite was found on Telegraph Bank 500 miles north of Azores, indicating that it had been laid down above sea level at some time between 50,000 BC and 10,000 BC. Sediment core analysis at locations off the coast of Africa have proved a 2 mile sinkage of volcanic island structures similar to those of the Azores.

The more detailed evidence provided by the latest underwater surveys will assist in identify the former glacial sea level, and locating the river canyons of' a large island where rivers Joined the sea before sea levels rose, thus matching the river canyon features of the American, European and African continental shelves.

Open minds are required to concentrate current resources on the many disciplines required to re-create or resolve this mystery which has immense importance to our understanding of human origins and human diffusion. In particular, migrations from Africa to the America's from 60,000 BC.

Important knowledge has been gathered at other sites on flood basalt formations, collapsed volcanic cones, plate tectonics, deep crustal rifting together with the rebound by up to 1km of the thick and old earths crust freed from the weight of glacial ice and the compensatory sinkage of perhaps up to 4km In the fragile young and thin oceananic crustal areas adjacent to major active fault zones.

The Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map, contoured in metres, shows the islands of the Azores as the volcanic peaks of the worlds greatest Mountain range. The area is bounded on the west by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rift valley fault, to the north by the Kurchatov Fracture Zone, on the east by deep ocean, and on the whole southern flank by the massive and deep East Azores Fracture Zone. Here we can see the three major tectonic plates which converge in this fragile crustal area, making it perhaps the most unstable structure on the planet.

There is no doubt that world sea levels have risen on average some 400 feet since the maximum influence of the Ice Age, although the identification of shore lines at this date around 16,500 BC must be considered in the light of much greater compensatory movements in the earths crust and other factors. Certainly a large island at this latitude would have been a suitable glacial refuge for plants, animals and man, during a highly inhospitable, cold and extremely dry climatic phase with so much of the earths moisture locked tip within Ice sheets.

Sea level rises may have been relatively stable in the area of Atlantis until two accelerated sea rises, due to massive melt water discharges, from land/ice locked lakes around 12,000 BC (50-40cm per annum) and 9,300 BC (30-20 mm per annum). A third and final accelerated rise took occured between 6,000 and 5,500 BC as result of further melt water discharges. The process of' sea level rise took place as the earth warmed to the highest levels recorded for over 120,000 years, peaking before 2350 BC by some 3°C higher than current levels.

The observational evidence of the geological structure of the Azores Islands, above and below current sea level, does provide evidence of river systems, which must have been created by a much larger land area. However not enough convincing evidence exists because of substantial past volcanic activity, subsidence and land slippage within the area. This creates problems in searching both for ancient remains or biological evidence that may still exist.

Catastrophic flooding, collapse and sinking at around 9,500 BC has been suggested by many historical sources and it has now become a simple matter for science to prove or disprove the thesis. Confirmation and dating of a very large sunken island requires access to and analysis of just a few sediment cores and a search for underwater structures in key locations. These may exist from just below the surface of the sea down to a depth of 11,000 feet.

It is important to realise that the O'Brien survey and the small adjustment for tilt re- creates the island as clearly described by Plato and many other independent and unconnected sources. The major building structures, if they still exist, will lie to the south west of the great plain in an area covered by the greatest depth of.' water close to the catastrophic crustal rifting of the East Azores Fault Zone, which can be clearly seen on the Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map.

We have featured more than 30 important books on our recommended reading list, which in total have produced a weight of evidence to support the basic thesis presented by O'Brien, spanning from the common records of the earliest antiquity to serious modern research. Only now are we beginning to appreciate the stature and reliability of the records presented by Solon and Plato, and accept recent Scientific explanations for related dramatic crustal rifting movements and vertical movements of the earths crust.

On a world wide scale there is common story of a great flood preceded by exceptional rainfall and accompanied by earth quakes and volcanic eruptions. It may be of significance to state that tsunami tidal waves were not directly mentioned in connection with this great flood story and that modern science has identified and dated three distinct rapid rises and three small declines in sea level since the ice age as the worlds climate warmed. The first great flood may have held more significance to early man and Atlantis, than the many subsequent floods and other natural disasters. The latter include interruptions to the circulatory flow of the Gulf Stream through fresh water input/ice melt, and episodic cometary debris impacts.

We welcome further input into this project from all interested parties. The more detailed hydrographic information, which we hope to obtain from the Portuguese authorities and the Southampton University Oceanographic Department, will allow a few small steps to be made to either dismiss the existence of Atlantis at this site or confirm the detailed evidence to re-create the great legend as fact.




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:22:43 pm
MAPS

Detailed Contour Survey of the Azores Area


(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/azores_cont.jpg)

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/azores_cont_large.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:33:57 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/atlantis100.jpg)

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/PlatosAt100.jpg)

SEVEN CITIES

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/sevencities.jpg)

Area of the “Seven Cities,” Sao Miguel, the Azores. Legends of the Azores contain many references to the lost continent and violent seismic disturbances some of which in effect are still continuing along the length of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, one the world’s principal earthquake zones. (Photo courtesy of Regional Commission of Tourism in the Azores)

From Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds by Charles Berlitz



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:35:33 pm

MAP OF THE NORTH ATLANTIC AT OR SHORTLY BEFORE THE END OF THE LAST GLACIAL STAGE - c. 11,000 BP


(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/455.jpg)

The former land bridge between Greenland and Europe was now interrupted in several places, and the Gulf Stream accordingly got access to the Artic Ocean, but was still prevented by the northern part of Atlantis from reaching the North Eastern Atlantic Basin.
With the penetration of the Gulf Stream into the Artic Ocean the meteorological situation was changed for the entire Northern Hemisphere and consequently for the earth as a whole. This penetration caused the east wind blowing along the margin of the Artic Ocean to cease, and the American ice fields were almost deprived of precipitation and therefore dwindled away.

This change together with the influx of the warm Gulf Stream into the Artic Ocean, constitute the two most important factors in ending the Ice Age. As long as the Gulf Stream brings warm water into the Artic Ocean we need not fear a real Ice Age.

From Atlantis the Verifiable Myth by Professor Rene Malaise



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:38:19 pm
SURMISED LOCATION OF ATLANTIS - NJ ZHIROV

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/poseidon1.jpg)

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/poseidon2.jpg)


From Atlantis by N.J. Zhirov

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0898755913.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:40:04 pm
CARTHAGE

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/restoration-of-carthage.jpg)

A restoration of Carthage showing the circular harbor, Sea-Wall or Mole, and the main citadel. Carthage, like the citadel of Atlantis, had a circular harbor.

From Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean by David Hatcher Childress

 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:41:55 pm
ATLANTIS?

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/wood-in-azores.jpg)

The man who can master the wealth of evidence about Atlantis, and come up with the final answer, has not yet emerged. But many commentators have placed it in the area of the Azores. If they are correct, then perhaps the lost paradise looked like this wood, in the Azores Island of Sao Miguel.

From The Worlds Last Mysteries – Readers Digest



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:44:09 pm
RENE MALAISE COMMENTS ON THE STRUCTURE OF THE MIDATLANTIC RIDGE IN HIS 1972 PAPER

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/456a.jpg)

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/456b.jpg)

Figure 6 (Up Dated Image) - Bottom of the North Atlantic with Mid-Atlantic Ridge - The twin-shape of all major submarine mountains ranges the world over is beautifully expressed in this image of the North Atlantic..

This gigantic, now submarine Mid-Atlantic mountain chain extends from Iceland along the Atlantic into the Indian Ocean and constituted the back-bone of the Atlantis Continent. Like its branching ridges its sculpture shows that it was once sub-aerially eroded by running water. The continent remained above water for many thousands of years after the end of the Ice Age and was contemporary with the Old Egyptian Empire. After its submergence, owing to the constricting influence of the cold bottom-water, the main range was split in two parallel ones, by the same agency and separated by a deep and narrow V valley. (Constriction is a nuclear force and accordingly one of extreme magnitude).

The proved subsidence of the range in Post Glacial time and its cleavage as only narrowly V-shaped in cross section are two facts disclaiming the correctness of the theories of continental drift and of spreading sea floors. A raising magna flow from below, either from convection currents or from so-called mantle plumes, would raise and not sink a mountain rang and also bring its two split parts wider and wider apart by the supposed spreading sea-floors. The age of the magmatic rocks dredged from the range shows that it was thrust up in the Miocene, some 10 to 20 million years ago.

The twin ranges ought thus to have had ample time to be widely separated. The constriction theory alone can explain all movements in the earth’s crust in a natural way without resorting to hypothetical forces and the results are sustained by observations. The drift and spreading floor theories are founded on hypothesis only without such confirmations. Paleomagnetism, parallel magnetic anomalies and the congruence between the African and South American coast can be explained without these latter Theories.

From Atlantis: A Verifiable Myth by Professor Rene Malaise (1972)



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:46:06 pm
ATLANTIS - FLOOD BASALT CONSTRUCTION AND COLLAPSE

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/457.jpg)

The Shining Ones
Authors: Christian & Barbara Joy O'Brien


(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/ecomm/shiningones.jpg)

This book includes all the material contained within The Genius of the Few, but adds a great deal more information on the unfolding diaspora of the Shining Ones from the Southern Lebanon site around the world, their advanced technology and their influence over the next 8,000 years.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:48:03 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/623a.jpg)

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/623.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:50:23 pm
Ancient Dry or Hanging River Bed

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/624.jpg)

The Island of San Miguel - Azores

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/624a.jpg)

The Budleigh Salterton Pebble Beds deposited by fast flowing rivers at the stary of the Triassic period.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:53:50 pm
THE CAPITAL CITY OF ATLANTIS


(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/atlantis-and-her-3.jpg)

The capital city of Atlantis. Source: Christopher Gill; Plato: The Atlantis Story, Bristol, Bristol Classical Press, 1980

From Atlantis – Myth or Reality by Murry Hope

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0140192328.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:55:46 pm
SPECULATIVE LAND OF ATLANTIS

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/ancient-map-in-arca-noe.jpg)

Detail from ancient map in Arca Noe by Kircher, showing the speculative land of Atlantis

From Atlantis - Mother of Empires by Robert B Stacy-Judd

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0932813690.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:57:34 pm
ATLANTIS

Linguist George Michanowsky maintains that this three-part cuneiform word refers to Atlantis. Michanowsky believes that the word, NI-DUK-KI, a lost lad destroyed in the Flood, is the first written mention of the Atlantis concept.

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/niatlantis.jpg)

From Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean by David Hatcher Childress

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0932813259.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 04:59:13 pm
MOUNT PICO

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/mountpico.jpg)

Mount Pico in the Azores Islands. The Azores as well as the Canary and Madeira Islands have long been considered by Atlantologists to be vestiges of Atlantis – the mountain tops of the lost continent rising from the plains and river valleys which are now beneath the sea. (Photo: Jose Goulart-Courtesy of Portuguese Information and Tourist Office)

From Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds by Charles Berlitz

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0285629298.02._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:02:41 pm
MAYA STORY OF ESCAPE FROM ATLANTIS

The beginning of a continuous bas-relief frieze discovered by Maler in Yucatan, which suggests to a remarkable degree the Atlantean cataclysm. The above photograph describes a pyramid and temple collapsing, a volcano in eruption and the land sinking. The figure in the water suggests destruction of life by drowning. Many escaped as symbolized by the figure in the boat.

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/storyofescape.jpg)

From Atlantis – Mother of Empires by Robert B.Stacy-Judd



(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0932813690.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:07:33 pm
Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean – that is the favourite theory among many scientists all over the world. Just because Plato mentioned an empire in the Atlantic Ocean? No! There is considerable circumstancial evidence for a land bridge or a huge island in the Atlantic Ocean.
According to Plato’s report, Atlantis should be situated between Spain, North Africa and Central America. This is exactly where the Canary Islands are – and the Atlantic Ridge, one of the world’s most unstable regions. Moreover, this is also the location of the Azores and, further westward, the Caribbean area with its huge and small islands.

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantis_karte.jpg)

picture above: In 1665, the German Jesuite priest Athanasius Kircher created this inverted map of Atlantis. Turning the map results in an image of the Central Atlantic plateau around the Azores. What is unusual about that is that people at that time had only little knowledge about the nature of the sea bed. Were some ancient notes available to the Jesuit priests enabling them to create such a map? 



From time immemorial, the Atlantic Ridge from Iceland to South America has been an area of considerable seismic activity. Volcanic eruptions and earthquakes are nothing extraordinary.

The Atlantic Ocean – Catastrophes:

In 1669, a major part of the notorious pirate island Port Royal sank due to an disastrous earthquake.

In 1775, Lisbon, which is on a parallel with the Azores at a latitude of 39 43'/36 55' N, was badly hit by a devastating earthquake killing 60 000 people. Moreover, both the harbour and the docks sank 200 metres to the ground.

In 1783, one fifth of the Icelandic population fell victim to a catastrophic earthquake.

In 1811, on the Azores, a volcanic island named “Sambrina“ rose some thousand metres to the surface and sank again shortly after. The islands of Corvi and Flores constantly change their shape and parts of them are swallowed up by the sea.


To the best of present knowledge there is an underwater area with deep valleys and high mountains around the Azores and the Canary Islands. Reducing the sea level by 150 metres to the Ice Age level brings about a huge piece of land which, however, does not match the dimensions Plato wrote about. Nevertheless, further westward, in the Caribbean area, a huge land mass comes into existence which perfectly meets Platos records.

The Atlantic Ocean – Facts:

In 1969, by order of Duke University, an expedition to the Aves Ridge in the Caribbean Sea found granite on fifty locations. Usually, granite is found only onshore or where once had been solid ground.

In 1898, 750 km north of the Azores, the transatlantic cable broke. On this occasion, rock samples were taken from a depth of 17 000 fathoms. A close examination came to the result that the rock samples consisted of tachylyte, a lava-like substance. Yet this mineral would not emerge unless above sea level and under atmospheric pressure. Moreover, it will decompose after 15 000 years. This means that once there had been mainland.

In a depth of up to 1 000 metres, coastal sand was found on the reefs of the Azores. However, it usually only appears on flat beaches.

In 1936, the Geological Society of America conducted a study of sunken river canyons in the Atlantic Ocean. It says that rivers on the European, the North African and the American side sank into the continental sockets for up to 300 km in length and 2 km in depth. That means that in the Pleistocene Age, that is when mankind emerged, the sea level underwent a change in depth up to 2 000 metres.


(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantischer_ruecken.gif)

The Atlantic Ridge – one of the world’s most nororious regions in terms of seismic activity. Decreasing the sea level by 300 to 400 metres brings about a huge land mass that would perfectly fit Plato’s descriptions. In “Critias“, Plato writes:

 
Quote
“(...)In the next place, they had fountains, one of cold and another of hot water, in gracious plenty flowing; and they were wonderfully adapted for use by reason of the pleasantness and excellence of their waters. They constructed buildings about them and planted suitable trees, also they made cisterns, some open to the heavens, others roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths (...)“


Usually, these warm and cold springs manifest themselves within continental zones. An example for this is Iceland where people use the warm springs to supply themselves with heat and energy – just as Plato put it.

Yet the Würm Ice Age 12 000 years ago is not a suitable candidate to have reduced the sea level along the Atlantic Ridge. Did, then, the catastrophe in the Atlantic Ocean indeed happen? That desaster with its devastating earthquakes and inundations that caused the mid-Atlantic Ridge to sink? Or is it all about an inundation of the Caribbean area with its shallow waters? Also, the point in time when the glaciers melted would perfectly meet the time of the disappearance of Atlantis as has been indicated by Plato.

Read the following excerpt from the Critias dialogue:

Quote
“(...)Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. (...)“


(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/aalwanderung.gif)

A further mystery concerns the migrations of the European eels. These animals spawn in the Sargasso Sea west of the United States of America. The newborn eels start their three years long eastbound migration following the Gulf Stream to the European rivers. Having reached sexual maturity they migrate back to the Sargasso Sea within four months, however leaving the Azores to their left this time. It has been proven that the eels need freshwater to reach maturity but why do they venture on this long journey across the Atlantic Ocean?

Could it be that the eels have a genetic memory of a mainland with freshwater in the Atlantic Ocean but cannot find it again because it sank? Is that why they keep on migrating until they reach Europe?

Another phenomenon relates to the suicide of the Norwegian lemmings. Every year when their homeland is running short of food, these little rodents start migrating westwards. At the end of their migration they jump into the ocean and continue swimming westwards until they drown. What is it these animals are after in the ocean? Are they following a basic instinct driving them into the ocean? Are they looking for a land that offered them plenty of food a long time ago? Was this land Atlantis, located in the Atlantic Ocean according to Plato?

http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/atlantis/atlantis_atlantic.htm




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:09:29 pm
http://www.atlantida.gr/engArxaiaEbrimata.htm

ANCIENT FOUNDINGS
Did Atlantis exist in the Atlantic Ocean?


We summarize our arguements, referring the most important findings about Atlantis. The evidences was drawn up by the Museum of Atlantis.

1. At the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean was found basalt glassy lava of a mainland and not undersea volcano.
2. In 1898 special machinery brought into the surface of the Atlantic Ocean from 2800 m depth, a rock island 15000 years old which came from a mainland volcano.
3. In the summer of 1927, a crystal cranium from quartz with a movable jaw was found in the jungle of the British Honduran (Central America)!
4. In 1977, with echo sounding machinery, a pyramid was localized in depth of 300 m near the triangle of Vermuda.
5. In Bimini islands which are in the Bahamas islands were found (in 1969) sunk large stones squared or rectangulared of 600 square metres extend similar to those which were found by professor Jacques Cousteau in the small island Dias of Krete (in 1976).
6. In a mountain of Perou in Piscos Bay a very ancient trident (Atlant's symbol) is displayed which is made of white stones with phosphoric brightness "stabbed" in the slope. It has 250 m length and sides of 3,8 m width. This trident leads to a marked airport shaped flat space in Nasca plain which is located 160 km from Pisco. Wide airstrips and radiated corridors are discerned which stand out because they shine. They are formed by rack fragments. When you see this space from above it gives you the impression of an airport with geometrical lines and signs like in the modern airfields.
7. The gravestone with a carved pilot which was found in Palenkoue, near the temple of the Atlants of Mexico
8. The undersea ruins which were found through Soviet research with head the academic Accenof near Madera and the 9500 years smoothed marble stone which was drawn up by the Rusians from the undersea central Atlantic slope (mountain rage)
9. Some very ancient buildings of America belong to this technique of the most ancient buildings of Europe and North Africa as well as many architectural decorative shapes which are similar to both civilizations.
10. Geologists admit that between the Big and the Small Antilles there was land, which was sunk. Furthermore, that the Azores islands and in their extend Madera and the Canary islands are emerged summits of a big undersea volcano mountain range where often happen earthquakes and explosions.


General conclusions

All these foundings show that the large continent of Atlantis was surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean. Its geographical extend approach more to the Central America, the Big and the Small Antilles and the Bahamas, included the space of the Atlantic Ocean up to the Sargassai Sea, expanded normally up to Bermuda and an oblong extend of it reached as far as to the Azores. It was also surrounded by many small islands (sea maps of Atlantis).


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:10:45 pm
http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/chronology.html

CHRONOLOGY

A Chronology of Historic Events
for Homo Sapiens Sapiens
72,000 BC Massive super volcano eruption of Toba, North Sumatra. Resulting in severe global cooling and massive loss of life. Confirmed by what is termed a genetic bottleneck. A few thousand human survivors. At this time Sapiens Sapiens is thought to have begun the move out of Africa.
62,000 BC First sign of Sapiens Sapiens (modern man) buried with respect, in modern manner with red ochre, near Lake Mungo, Australia.
57,500 BC North Atlantic Ash Zone 2. Major volcanic activity.
50,000 BC Next oldest discovery of Sapiens Sapiens, child burial in Upper Egypt.
42,000 BC Signs of mining and farming on the Vaal River, South Africa.
42,000 BC to 16,000 BC Signs of a dramatic rise in the size and quality of sapiens sapiens tool kit, great artistic and hunter gatherer skills, and improved diet.
25,000 BC Sulatrean (cromagnon) peoples on the Eastern Atlantic seaboard sail round the Atlantic both ways in walrus skinned, wooden framed boats, delivering advanced flint working skills to peoples on the Western Atlantic. On shore their light boats would be turned upside down on low stone walls to form houses.
24,000 BC to 13,000 BC Climatic desication of Australia, the Sahara and other parts of the world, with water being locked up in the ice of the Ice Age.
19,000 BC This date is given to what is termed the Ice Age Maximum.
18,000 BC First signs of Goats being domesticated in North Africa.
13,000 BC to 12,000 BC Farming at four Isnan sites at Naquada, Dishna and at Tushka, 125 miles up river from Aswan in Egypt.
12,600 BC to 10,700 BC Bolling/Allerod warming event.confirmed by maximum extent of glaciers when ice retreats, and ice melt discharges start. Termed Windermere Interstadial, as warm as today lasting to intense heat events around 10.800 BC.
12,000 BC Prior to this date the whole of the northern littoral of the Mediterranean Sea appears to have been occupied by herb dominated steppe. The only area where evergreen oak, pistachio, olive and wild wheat’s and barley’s survived together, was Southern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. This area provided a key glacial refuge for important plants.
10,860 BC and 10,740 BC Dramatic rises in temperature. Time of mass extinctions.
10,500 BC Teutonic uplift and great floods causing Lake Victoria to discharge into the Nile. This led to a massive extension of the high level lakes and a surplus of water in the semi-arid Sahel, and the Sahara region.
10,700 BC to 9,600 BC Termed Allerod/Younger Dryas, there was a dramatic fall in temperature to a level as cold as the Ice Age minimum.
9,500 BC Re-advance of the woodland vegetation in Eastern Turkey and Western Iran commenced, but not completed until 3,500 BC.
8,500 BC Oldest town with quality stone work, at Jericho. Warm climate at the bottom of the rift valley.
8,900 BC to 7,500 BC The first signs of sophisticated and domesticated plants and animals being dispersed into new areas of the Fertile Crescent. This included the range of founder crops, and the introduction into Cyprus of the domesticated Mesopotamian fallow deer, with sheep, goats and cattle.
8,200, 5,400 and 2,000 BC Catastrophic and sudden droughts leading to the rapid drying up of many of Africa’s lakes, leaving layers of dead fish in the sediments. Clear evidence of sudden catastrophic events.
7,000 BC What is termed the high and wild stage of the Nile peaks.
6,500 BC to 5,000 BC Towns at Catul Huyuk and Sabi-Abyad, displaying a range of sophisticated technologies. Polished obsidian and superb ceramics.
4,500 BC to 3,250 BC New dates for the 150 acre, Euphrates city of Uruk. World trade, together with superb social organisation and administration.
4,000 BC Highest water level at Lake Chad. Central Sahara blooms.
4,000 BC to 2,000 BC Climatic desiccation creates the modern Sahara, Arabian and Thar deserts. People move into the Nile Valley. At the same time Mesopotamia drys out, with the decline of the monsoon rains. These pressures on successful farming and increasing populations, lead to major social unrest, and forced migrations to more favourable areas.
2,750 BC Aryan Bak tribes migrate from Sumer to Northern India and to China down the silk road. They also diffuse to many other parts of the world setting up new civilisations, or improving old ones, in Europe and the Americas.
2,350 BC Final collapse of the great Bronze Age Civilisations due to well researched and documented evidence of massive cometary debris explosions from the Mediterranean to India, and global changes in climate.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:14:04 pm
For centuries, even after the Spanish conquest, it was believed that the islands were the uppermost peaks of the lost continent of Atlantis of which Plato wrote in his "Timeos and Critias".

(http://www.abouttenerife.com/tenerife/images/legend3.jpg)

Atlantis was a big island, "larger than Libya and Asia together", located beyond the Columns of Hercules (the Strait of Gibraltar). It was the dominion of Poseidon, god of the Sea, and it was inhabited by the Atlants, descendants of its first king Atlas, son of the god and a mortal women.
   

Atlantis was immensely wealthy and the Atlants were the most advanced people of the world. In the center of the continent raised the great capital town with the Palace and the Temple of Poseidon. Its scientists transmitted their skills and civilization knowledges to other peoples, with whom they maintained peace.

(http://www.abouttenerife.com/tenerife/images/legend4.jpg)

  Atlants observed their laws of justice, generosity and peace for many generations. But in time they degenerated and became greedy and warlike. Others add that they discovered the secrets of the gods, secrets of cosmic energies and forces which could destroy mankind.
 

About 11,500 years ago Zeus, king of the gods, punished the Atlants. In the course of a single night volcanoes and tidal waves destroyed the big island in a disaster of cosmic proportions.

According to the legend, only the islands of Azores, Madeira, Canaries and Cape Verde remain from Atlantis. These were the lost continent's highest summits. But its palaces and temples are still to be found in the bottom of the sea, a sea which took its name from Atlantis: the Atlantic Ocean.


"Its steady palaces inhabited by dolphins,
its meadows and gardens carpeted with seaweed..."
(Jacinto Verdaguer - "La Atlántida")
[/b]


http://www.abouttenerife.com/tenerife/legend2.asp


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:43:49 pm
THE DARK OCEAN

A few - it would appear very few - sea explorers reached the Canary Islands during ancient times. The islands lie in the Atlantic Ocean, the so-called "Dark Ocean", into which very few sailors dared to venture. Furthermore, the ocean current called "Canaries Stream" flows in a southwesterly direction before veering to the west to sweep the unwary ocean vessel off to the end of the world, as it was believed during centuries.

Those few Phoenicians, Greeks and Romans who reached the islands and managed to return home to tell their story, surrounded the Canaries in a mist of magic and legend.

According to the Mediterranean sailors' tales, the Atlantic Ocean was inhabited by all kind of monsters which destroyed the vessels and devored their daring crews. You could find at any moment giant whirlpools, storms caused by angry gods or... the end of the world. Once arrived at the world's edge, which was thought to be a flat disc, the unwise seamen would fall into the abyss.

In the opinion of some historians, there was an economic or militar reason for some of these legends. The Phoenicians, skillful sailors and trademen, knew some Atlantic searoutes along the African and European coast. They were not interested at all in having other people as competitors, so they tried to keep visitors at a distance by means of spreading awful rumours and legends.


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:44:38 pm
THE GARDEN OF HESPERYDES

Hesiod -a Greek poet of the 8th century b.C.- wrote about the legendary Garden of Hesperydes. The story starts with Atlas.

Atlas was a Giant, titan Japeto's son. The titans were defeated by Zeus, king of the gods, who confined them in the Tartarus -the hell. Atlas had fought the war on his father's side. According to some opinions, Zeus condemned Atlas to support the vault of heavens upon his shoulders. Other maintain that an angry Perseus showed him Medusa's head thus converting him into a high mountain that supported the sky. Be that as it may, Atlas had to hold up the sky beyond the Columns of Hercules -the Strait of Gibraltar.

Atlas had three daughters, the Hesperydes: Egle, Eritia and Aretusa. The three lived in the most westernly land of the world, some wonderful islands in the Atlantic Ocean, a Garden of Eden where weather was always mild and where golden apples grew on the trees. Goddess Gea (Mother Earth) made sprout those apples as a wedding gift to the king and queen of the gods, Zeus and Hera.

The Hesperydes cultivate the Garden, but a fierce dragon looked after it. It was called Ladon, and it had hundred flame-spewing heads.
Hercules -also called Herakles-, the greatest hero of ancient times, had to perform twelve very difficult tasks, almost impossible to accomplish, the "Twelve Labors of Hercules". Labor number eleven consisted in stealing the Hesperydes' Golden Apples.

Hercules found Atlas supporting the sky near the Ocean, in the mountains which we call today Atlas (Morocco). Since the Garden of Hesperydes' dragon knew Atlas, Hercules persuaded him to go to the islands and steal the apples, while he stayed as supporter of the sky in his place. Atlas went to the Garden in which he could enter since the dragon recognized him, killed the monster, stole the golden apples and returned to the place where Hercules stayed. Atlas, tired of his task, intended to leave Hercules with the burden upon his shoulders, but the hero managed to cheat him. He passed him the burden again and fled with the apples.

And the Garden of Hesperydes? Did it lose its Golden Apples forever? No! They ended by returning to the islands, since they were given to goddess Athena, who gave them back to the gardeners, the Hesperydes.


Concerning Ladon, the watch-dragon killed by Atlas... it lives on in their children, the dragon-trees. According to the legend, the blood flowing from the dragon's wounds fell all over the Garden of Hesperydes. A dragon tree sprouted from each blood drop. Dragon trees -dracaena drago- have massive trunks from which raise a bunch of twisted branches, Ladon's hundred heads. When a piece of bark or a branch are broken, the tree "bleed" a dark-red sap called "dragon-tree blood", which can be used with medical purposes. Dragon trees grow slowly, but they can live for several centuries. There is a specimen at Icod de los Vinos -Tenerife- which is called the "Thousand-year old Dragon Tree". The Guanches, Canarian natives, revered the places where these trees grew as specially meaningful and full of energies. Today, several superstitions of the Canarian folklore are still refered to a dragon tree, growing lonely at the edge of a crag or a cliff.


When the traveler approaches the Canaries by sea, he can glimpse the misty form of the Teide floating over the clouds many miles before arriving at the islands. When we imagine how it looked when the volcano has been in eruption, we shall understand how the legend was born of a fierce fire-spewing dragon who watched over a wonderful Garden where the Golden Apples grew...


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:46:21 pm
THE GHOST ISLAND: SAN BORONDON
(SAINT BRENDAN)


The Canaries are seven islands... but an eigth isle is still searched! It is the ghost island, the mysterious one, the island of San Borondón. San Borondón is the Canarian name of Saint Brendan or Saint Brandan of Clonfert (480-576 d.C.), an Irish monk who plays the lead in one of the most famous legends of the Celtic culture: the voyage of Saint Brendan or Brandan to the Promised Land of the Saints, the Islands of Happiness and Fortune.

The Irish poem tells that Brendan was a monk of Tralee, County Kerry. He was ordained priest in the year 512 d.C.. He sailed with 14 other monks on a small vessel which went far away in the Atlantic Ocean. The legend tells about their adventures, how they took with them along their voyage three other monks, their encounter with fire-hurling demons, with floating crystal columns, with monstruos creatures as large as an island.

Brendan and his fellow travellers landed on island where they found trees and other sort of vegetation. They said mass, and suddenly the island started to sail. It was a gigantic sea creature and they were on its back.
After many vicissitudes Brendan managed to go back to Ireland.

Many base on this legend the affirmation that Irish sailors reached possibly in the High Middle Ages the shores of North America or Newfoundland, Iceland and other Atlantic isles.


When the Canaries were conquered throughout the 15th century, stories were insistently told about an eigth island which sometimes was seen to the West of La Palma, El Hierro and La Gomera. When sailors tried to reach it and approached to its shores, mountains and valleys, the island was covered by mist and vanished. The island was obviously identified as mythical Saint Brendan's whale-island, and was called "San Borondón" in the Canary Islands. People believed firmly in its existence, and there were even detailed accounts from an odd sailor or two who swore that they had landed on the island and explored it before the land had sunk again into the Ocean. In some international treaties signed by the Kingdom of Castille it was stated, concerning the Canary Islands, the Castilian sovereignty over *the islands of Canaria, already discovered or to be discovered*; just in case... The island was called "Aprositus", the Inaccesible, and in other versions of the legend is named "Antilia" or "Island of the Seven Cities", cities which were supposed to have been founded by seven legendary bishops.

The archives of the 18th century inform about official inquiries by the authorities of El Hierro, where tens of witnesses declared having seen the bewitched island from the summits of El Hierro's mountains. An expedition in search of the island sailed from Santa Cruz de Tenerife as a result of this inquiry.

The persistence of this legend in the islands' folklore is amazing. San Borondón is still alive in the islands' people imagination. There is probably no one islander of Tenerife, La Palma, La Gomera or El Hierro who sometime has not looked from the mountains of his island into the sea, searching the lost island of San Borondón in the western horizon where the sun sinks in the cobalt-blue waters of the Atlantic Ocean.

"Let the Guanche drums resound
and the conch shells blow,
for the mysterious island
is appearing in the midst of the waves;
here comes San Borondón,
showing up in the mist
like a queen
with the surf as suite..."

"San Borondón", Cabrera/Santamaría


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The prior three posts originally came from this website:
http://home.pi.be/~p4u00071/canarias/canleyend-eng.html#Dark




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:50:50 pm
AN AZTEC STORY

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/aztec-story.jpg)

The Aztec story chronicling the departure of their ancestors from a land surrounded by water to the Mexican area. (Kinsborough)

From Atlantis – Mother of Empires by Robert B. Stacy-Judd

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0932813690.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:52:37 pm
CODEX TROANO

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/itzamna-arriving.jpg)

ITZAMNA ARRIVING FROM THE EAST AS DEPICTED IN THE CODEX TROANO.

Mayan myths say that their ancestors came from the ocean. Like the Nahuatl people to their north they describe more than one foundation. The mythical civilizer Itzamna, carrying the letters of what would become the Mayan language, arrived from the east, to found one age. Itzamna came across a sea with twelve paths through it (in celestial sea the zodiac has twelve paths).

Later, in a different age, another migration came from the west, led by Kukulcan, the Maylan equivalent of Quetzalcoatl. Like the peoples of Mexico who described several incarnations of Quetzalcoatl and like Hindus who described many appearances of their lord-god Krishna, the Maya myths had Kukulcan arriving several times. One appearance was in the form of Tonaca, a migrating seafarer. In Peru the Quechua say Tonapa, a seafaring incarnation of Viracocha, left into the Pacific to found civilizations in Oceana.

From Atlantis in America – Navigators of the Ancient World by Ivar Zapp and George Ericson

(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0932813526.02._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg)




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:53:58 pm
YOUNGER EDDA

Reminiscent of Timaeus, the Younger Edda legend tells of an ancient Swedish king named Gylfe, who journeys to Asgard, where he assumes the name Ganglere (the wanderer). There he beholds a land of temples, golden palaces, and plowed fields populated by a mighty and noble race called the Asas. Just as the Egyptian priests relate to Solon, king of Athens, the tale of Atlantis and of the great flood that befell his ancestors, the Asas tell Ganglere the tale of Ragnarok. Asas comes from Norse word Aas, which means a “ridge of high land”. Hence the Asas, like the Atlanteans, would appear to be a fictitious race that once dwelt high up on the ice sheet’s glistening, paradise of ice.

From Earth Under Fire by Paul LaViolette



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:56:01 pm
History of the Canary Islands


(http://www.espanabreaks.com/i/maps/region_1.gif)

http://www.canaryislandbreaks.com/history.php

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Background

The origins of the Canary Islands are by no means clear, however we do know the islands are estimated to be 30 million years old. The Canarian archipelago is made up of seven islands and six islets, located approximately 100km off the coast of North Africa.
Legend has it the Canary Islands were formed when the mythical continent of Atlantis sank into the ocean. In Roman times Pliny referred to the islands as the "Fortunate Isles", a name that is still used today, due to the favourable winds and stable climate conditions. Information about the islands was lost in the dark ages, folklore has it that it was too dangerous for boats to venture into the Atlantic for fear of the "dragon infested waters".
 

Conquest

In 1402, Jean de Bethencourt of Normandy in France, left La Rochelle and headed towards the Canary Islands. He arrived first in Lanzarote, but later moved on to Fuerteventura. After running out of supplies and with very few men, he headed next for mainland Spain only to return to Fuerteventura in 1404. On returning to Fuerteventura, El Hierro and La Gomera came under his control. The Spanish King, Enrique III appointed him Lord of the islands and Bethencourt encouraged farmers from his Norman homeland to begin settling there.
During his time in Betancuria, Bethencourt built a chapel in the village which became an important local focal point. The chapel still stands today and continues to dominate the village. In 1406, Bethencourt left his nephew Maciot in charge and returned to Normandy. Although the islands suffered a turbulent history for centuries after, Bethancourt's establishment of the islands under Spanish control has remained permanent.

 

The Modern Canaries

The Canary Islands were declared a province of Spain in 1821, and Tenerife's Santa Cruz was made the capital. An unsuccessful division of the islands in the 1840's was attempted when feuds developed between Tenerife and Gran Canaria. It wasn't until 1927 when Madrid made the decision to officially separate the Canaries into two provinces. It remains the case today that Tenerife, La Gomera, La Palma and El Hierro make up one province while Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura and Lanzarote make up the other.
The establishment of the Canary Islands as a major tourist destination can be attributed to Franco, who began to encourage tourism to the Spanish mainland in the late 1960's. This had a knock-on effect on the Canary Islands, which also gained popularity for their year-round good weather. Millions of holidaymakers now flock to the islands every year.


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 05:58:16 pm
Versión española
THE GUANCHES


The native people of the Island of Tenerife, which gave name to the different aboriginal peoples of the Canary Islands


THE CANARY ISLANDS IN ANTIQUITY

A few - it would appear very few - sea explorers reached the Canary Islands during ancient times. The islands lie in the Atlantic Ocean, into which very few sailors dared to venture. Furthermore, the ocean current called "Canaries Stream" flows in a southwesterly direction before veering to the west to sweep the unwary ocean vessel off to the Caribbean. Centuries later, Europeans would make use of this current as a powerful aid in crossing the Ocean to reach America. (Cristopher Columbus called in at Gran Canaria and La Gomera, and set sail from this island during his voyage of discovery in 1492. The Canaries were the last land sighted by the Spaniards before landing in the island of Guanahani -San Salvador- on October 12, 1492; and Canarian water and provisions supplied the "Pinta", the "Niña" and the "Santa María").

Those few Phoenicians, Greeks and Romans who reached the islands and managed to return home to tell their story, surrounded the Canaries in a mist of magic and legend. For centuries, even after the Spanish conquest, it was believed that the islands were the uppermost peaks of the lost continent of Atlantis of which Plato wrote. Others identified them with the Elysian Fields, home to the blessed who knew no cold or pains. Similarly, the islands came to be identified with the Garden of Hesperydes, a paradise where golden apples grew under the guard of a gigantic flame-spewing monster (the Teide volcano?).
The Roman general Quintus Sertorius, whose ship was swept from Lusitania (Portugal) by a storm, speaks in the Ist century BC of "some islands higher than Mount Atlas with a gentle climate". Plutarch called the Canaries "the Fortunate Islands", a nickname with they still bear and which has given rise to the term "Macaronesia" (the Happy Islands) to refer to the archipelagos of the Azores, Canaries, Madeira, and Cape Verde in the Atlantic.
Juba, king of Mauritania in Northern Africa and vassal of Rome in the Ist century BC, sent an expedition out to explore the islands according to the writings of the famous naturalist Plinius.

THE NATIVES OF THE CANARY ISLANDS

Europeans re-discovered the Fortunate islands in the first half of the XIVth century. They found living there a people who later came to be known as the Guanches, and who are still the object of great mystery.

Where did they come from? How did they reach the islands? When did they arrive?

They had to have arrived by sea, of course. And they arrived with their domesticated animals: goats, sheep, pigs and dogs. They brought with them wheat and barley. They came from North Africa, originating from the same stock as the Berbers of the Atlas mountains. Yet this simple affirmation has caused - and still causes - virtual rivers of ink to flow in polemical debate in which archeology and ethnography become entangled in politics.

According to the tales of the European conquerors, the Guanches were a "highly beautiful white race, tall, muscular, and with a great many blondes amongst their numbers" Their great height must be understood in relation to the average height of Europeans at that time. As for the presence of blondes, even today after many centuries of invasions and intermarriage, a heritage of blond hair and blue eyes is easily found among modern day Berbers of the Atlas region in Africa. There have of course been those who have tried to deny the Berber origins of the Guanches for political reasons, perhaps in order to avoid the possibility of potential territorial claims on the part of Morocco. But this reasoning is totally illogical. The ancestors of the current Moroccan and Algerian Berbers who emigrated to the Canaries did so several centuries before the birth of Christ when neither Morocco nor Algeria nor their cultures yet existed. According to the same line of argument, the Italians of Rome would have a stronger claim to the cities of Northern Africa which were founded by the Roman Empire!

The ancestors of the Guanches arrived by sea, colonized the islands... and then "forgot" how to sail! When the Europeans landed on the Canaries, they discovered a stone age culture based on shepherding, fruit gathering and a very limited agriculture. This same base was common to all the islands, but each island had developed into its own microcosm to the point where even the language had differentiated into distinct dialects. The islands were cut off one from the other as the natives did not know the art of navigation. They fished only in coastal tidal pools.

This is one of the great enigmas of the Guanches. How was it possible for a race of people to reach the shores of these tiny islands by sea, live surrounded by ocean with - on several islands - enormous forests of tall trees for raw material and yet ignore the sea, living as it were with their back turned to it? Several possible answers to this mystery have been offered. Perhaps the people of the Canaries were simple shepherds who had been transported to the islands by a sailing people and later forgotten and left to fate. Other explanations might be found in the extraordinary difficulty of navigating the oceans surrounding the Canaries due to the strong currents flowing to the West and the trade winds blowing as strongly almost year round.

THE GUANCHES: THE PEOPLE FROM TENERIFE

Guanche was the name by which the natives of Tenerife called themselves. Guan Chenech meant "Man from Chenech", or man from Tenerife. With the passage of time, the term Guanche became identified with all the native peoples of the Canaries.

The names of the different islands and of their inhabitants (for those that are known) are as follows:


TENERIFE: Chenech, Chinech or Achinech. It would seem that the natives of La Palma, seeing the snow-covered peak of the Teide on the horizon, called that island Ten-er-efez, "White Mountain" (from Ten, teno, dun, duna= mountain, and er-efez= white). Achenech was inhabited by the Guan Chenech, the men from Chenech.


FUERTEVENTURA: Maxorata, inhabited by the Majoreros or Maxos.

GRAN CANARIA: Canaria, was inhabited by the Canarii or Canarios. All the islands took their name from this one, because the Castilians started to call them 'Islands of Canaria', later 'Islas Canarias' (Canary Islands).

LANZAROTE: Tyteroygatra.

LA PALMA: Benahoare, pronounced "Ben-Ajuar", and meaning "from the tribe of Ahoare" (tribe of the African Atlas). Island inhabited by the Auaritas.

LA GOMERA: Gomera, inhabited by the Gomeros.

EL HIERRO: Hero, inhabited by the Bimbaches.


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http://home.pi.be/~p4u00071/canarias/canguan1-eng.html

Another great link on the Canary Islands:
http://www.red2000.com/spain/canarias/



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 06:00:49 pm
The Happy Islands

This paradisiac group of islands, with a preferred climate and constant temperature through all the year, and splendid beaches of fine sand, consists of 7 larger islands (Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura, Lanzarote, Tenerife, La Palma, Gomera, Hierro) and a few smaller ones (Alegranza, Graciosa, Montaña Clara, Roque del Este, Roque del Oeste und Lobos). Surprisingly, the landscape of each island is radically different to the others.

Already Greeks and Romans reported on this archipelago of volcanic origins, and called it the Happy Islands, Garden of the Hesperides, Atlantida, ... Some historians suppose that the legendary continent Atlantis was located here. The islands' original population, called Guanches, is tall and of white skin.
In 1496 the islands became part of the Spanish kingdom, and the ships of Christopher Columbus stopped here on their travel to discover the New World.

(http://www.red2000.com/spain/images/canarias.gif)

The Climate of Canary Islands

 At Canary Islands there is eternal springtime. Temperatures between the seasons vary only some 6º C, the monthly average temperatures are from 18º to 24º C (64,4 and 75,2ºF). Ideal bathing conditions through all the year.
 
Due to the islands geographical location, some 4º from the tropic of cancer and very close to the African coast, the islands' climate is subtropical. The surprising landscape, with high mountains covered by snow very close to the beaches, is an additional attraction. Water temperature varies from 22º C in summer to 19º C in winter.
 
 In La Palma, Tenerife and Gran Canaria you may find tropical rains from time to time, while Fuerteventura and Lanzarote are very dry and guarantee sunshine almost without interruption.
 
 The character of the population is influenced by this favored climate as well, Canarians are famous for being always friendly and in good mood. That can be said about the numerous foreigners, who use to spend the winter-months here, as well.
 
http://www.red2000.com/spain/canarias/

http://www.red2000.com/spain/canarias/clima.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 06:03:23 pm
The Mysterious origin of the Guanches

The Guanches are the mysterious natives of the Canary Islands. They were just about exterminated by the Spaniards when these invaded the archipelago at the turn of the 15th century. Tall, blond and blue-eyed, the Guanches have long intrigued the anthropologists, for blond natives are rarity. According to the reliable Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Guanches "are thought to have been of Cro-Magnon origin... and had a brown complexion, blue or gray eyes, and blondish hair"


Indeed, the Guanches are deemed to be related to the Berbers of neighboring Morroco, who are, likewise, tall, blond and blue-eyed when unmixed with the Arab majority. Other specialists, however, believe that the Guanches are related to the Celts of Western Europe, the early realm of these races. No matter what, the Guanches represent a unique opportunity of studying the early peoples of this region so intimately connected with Atlantis and the Garden of the Hesperides.


Isolated in their islands, the Guanches were prevented, until the advent of the Spanish, from sexually mingling with other races. So, they preserved their pristine Cro-Magnon genetic traits in a more or less pure fashion until that date. But, as we said, the Guanches were massacred by the Spaniards, and their remainder mingled heavily with the invaders, so that they essentially inexist today. But the blond, blue-eyed, tall stock has been preserved in part, and can still be seen in many individuals. As is known, blond traits are dominated by dark ones, and tend to disappear from the population. But they survive unseen, and may return in certain individuals called "recessives", who combine the proper genes.


Furthermore, the Guanches mummified their dead, and this material can be studied by the researchers, particularly concerning traits such as blood type and racial characteristics. This strange mode of disposing of the dead - which the Guanches shared with the Polynesians, the Egyptians and the Mayas - has been mooted out by several authorities as indicating a close affinity among these distant nations. The Guanches also left some sort of alphabetic inscriptions which have yet to be studied, along with their pottery and peculiar ruins. All in all, the archaeology of this most remarkable people is far from satisfactorily researched.


Many researchers have pointed out the resemblance of the Guanche natives with the Cro-Magnons and, particularly, with Cro-Magnoid types of regions such as those of Muges (Portugal) dating from the Mesolithic (c. 8,000 BC). Similar groups have been noted and studied Portugal, Spain, France, England, Sweden and Northwest Africa, precisely the realm of the Celto-Germanic and the Berber races.


Are the Canaries the Remains of Sunken Atlantis?


Many Atlantologists have proposed that the Canary Islands are the remainder of a sunken Atlantis, being the lofty volcanic peaks left behind when the lost continent foundered. However, the Canary islands rise directly from the deep ocean floor, from a depth of some 3,000 meters below the surface. Indeed, they are a part of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, having been formed by submarine volcanoes at the end of the Tertiary Age (circa 2.5 million years ago).Their lavas consist of basalts and trachytes, the typical material of submarine, non-explosive volcanism typical of seabottoms.


Due to both their age and their origin, the Canarian volcanoes can hardly be invoked to account for the conflagration that wiped Atlantis off the map. Instead, this type of basaltic, submarine volcanism is nowadays perfectly well understood geologically speaking. Such volcanoes result from the upwelling magma that forms the Continental Plates, according to the theory of Plate Tectonics, and are a feature of all oceanic regions of the world. Hence, the claims made by certain Atlantologists such as P. Termier, I. Donnelly, C. Berlitz and many others that the Canaries or the Azores, or the Madeiras are the remains of sunken Atlantis do not hold water at all.

Are the Guanches Atlantean Relicts?


As we said above, though we can be certain that the Canaries, along with the other neighboring Atlantic islands, are not the residues of a sunken continent that foundered in the region, we have yet to explain the mysterious origin of the Guanches. However, where smoke is, there is usually fire, and we cannot simply ignore the recurrent legends that link this people to Atlantis.


But if they are not Atlanteans left behind when their continent sunk, the only possible explanation for the mysterious origin of the Guanches is that they primordially came from somewhere else. But, whence? Certainly not from neighboring Africa, the realm of the Black Man. No serious anthropologist has ever maintained that the blond Aryans originated in Africa itself. The standing proposals for the origin of the Berbers and, possibly, the Guanches themselves, are that they came from Arabia, after crossing the Sahara desert.


But, to start with, no one is sure that the Arabs or, even less, the Aryans, originated in Arabia or Palestine, and their own ethiological legends affirm that they came from beyond the Indian Ocean. Moreover, the Sahara desert poses a formidable barrier ever since the end of the Pleistocene, and it is highly unlikely that it could be crossed by hordes of migrants, unstocked with the food and water required for the task.


The Guanches were held in perfect isolation from Europe and other Old World civilizations until they were discovered by the Portuguese and Spanish at the end of the 15th century. This separation dates from prehistoric times that far predate the ones of Plato and Herodotus, and even those of Homer and Hesiod. So, if Guanche legends indeed relate to Atlantis and its doom, we can be certain that the golden realm was no idle invention of Plato or other Greeks, but originated in a very ancient tradition, dating from the dawn of mankind. This is precisely what we aim to prove in the present work on the origin of the Guanches.


We start by reviewing the ancient traditions linking the Canaries to the Garden of the Hesperides and the Islands of the Blest, and progress into the modern proposals purporting to show that the Canaries and the other neighboring islands are the remains of sunken Atlantis. Finally, we attempt showing their rather direct relationship between the Canaries, Atlantis and the Garden of Eden, the legendary site of the origin of Mankind.


If our conclusions indeed prove to be right and survive the wellcome attack of the critics, the whole of human prehistory will have to undergo a major revision. Hence, the importance of inquiring on the origin of the Guanches and their possible connection with Atlantis. The mysterious Guanches provide the key to the riddles that surround the origin of Mankind, and are the "missing link" connecting the Mediterranean and other neighboring civilizations to the Far Orient and the Indies, the true site of the Garden of the Hesperides. This garden, also known as that of Eden, is the place where Mankind and Civilization indeed developed, according to the holy traditions of many nations, and not only that of the Bible.


Evening Isles Fantastical


Classical writers often mention legendary islands in the Atlantic Ocean in a way that closely evokes the legends of Atlantis. Homer mentions islands like Phaeacia, Scheria and Ogygia. The Argonautica, deemed to be prior to Homer's Odyssey, also speaks of legendary oceanic islands such as Aiaia, Thrinacia and Colchis. More than just delightful novels, these ancient sagas were indeed Sacred History, and were believed to derive from actual fact. The Greco-Roman traditions concerning the fabulous oceanic islands and their golden realms apparently derive from the far earlier ones such as the Epic of Gilgamesh of the Sumero-Babylonians or the Ramayana and the Mahabharata of the Hindus.


Many other classical authors also mention such fantastic islands of the ocean. This ocean the Greeks, ignorant of the other oceans, very naturally identified with what we nowadays call by the name of Atlantic Ocean, that is, "the Ocean of the Atlanteans". But when we read the ancient traditions closer, we notice that the fabulous islands of the Atlanteans were always placed "at the confines of the earth".


Moreover, the ocean in question is invariably described as "winy red" and is placed towards dawn and Orient. In other words, the ocean in question is the Indian Ocean, which the ancients called Erythraean, that is, "Red One". And Atlantis is the same as the Ultima Thule of the ancients, this being the name they gave to the "confines of the earth" which lay towards the Orient, in the Eastern limits of their world, and where they also placed the Pillars of Atlas, the twin and counterpart of the western Pillars of Hercules, in Gibraltar.


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http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 06:05:47 pm
The Phoenicians and the Secret Route to the Indies.


The traditions concerning the legendary Atlantic Islands (or, rather, "Islands of the Atlanteans") were probably transferred from the Orient to the Occident by the ancient navigants and explorers such as the Phoenicians, the Minoan Cretans and the Etruscans. The Greeks had some knowledge of the ancient peripluses of the Phoenicians, the detailed accounts of the naval routes to such mysterious islands so often equated to the ones of Paradise and Atlantis.


In the desire to preserve the lucrative monopoly of their maritime trade with the Indies, the Phoenicians and their partners disguised their verbal maps under a veil of confusion intended to avert the possible competitors towards the wrong places and directions. It suffices to read such accounts, preserved in the writings of authors such as Avienus, Hanno, and Pytheas of Marseilles to observe the inextricable confusions that becloud the real distances, names and directions.


The same thing happens with the writers that speak of the Atlantic Islands in mythical terms. The accounts of authorities such as Herodotus, Plato, Diodorus, Theopompos and many others are no different from the accounts of the Odyssey and the Argonautica. They are full of allegories, metaphors, paradoxes and even downright lies that have led the experts to despair from ever making any sense out of them.


Such relates tell of seas riddled with clashing rocks, seamonsters and thorny sargassoes that dragged down the ships they caught, or in giant maelstroms and muddy shoals and doldrums that prevented the mariners from ever escaping death. They also tell of one-eyed giants and microscopic dwarfs, of strap-footed Titans and goat-footed satyrs, of terrible cannibals and of sorceress of all kinds. But some of these accounts were far more realistic and matter-of fact, and plainly alluded to real islands such as the Canaries and the Madeiras and, far more likely, to the Indonesian islands or even the Americas beyond.


Midas and the Satyr Silenus


The ancients believed, as did Plato and Herodotus along with the Greek geographers that a circular ocean - the one they called "Outer Ocean" or "Atlantic Ocean", and which included what we now call the Atlantic and the Indian Oceans- surrounded the world then known, which consisted of Eurasia and Africa. The historian Theopompos, a contemporary of Plato, relates a conversation between the legendary King Midas of Phrygia and the very wise satyr Silenus.


The satyr, entrapped and rendered drunk by Midas, told him of an Outer Continent (the Americas?) that outlay the ocean and which was inhabited by a people twice the size and twice as long-lived as the ordinary mortals. One part of their continent was permanently enwrapped by a red mist and was drained by two rivers, the River of Pleasure and the River of Grief. Once, these giants crossed the ocean intending to conquer the ancient world. But once they saw the misery of our world, they realized that it was useless to pursue their plan, and retired to their world in disgust.


The story of Theopompos is extremely interesting, for it embodies the essential elements of the myth of Atlantis. To start with, the attempted invasion of the giants closely evokes the similar one undertaken by Plato's Atlanteans. Plato too alludes to the Outer Continent, the Epeira Ges that delimited the Ocean on all sides, and which can only be the Americas. The Atlantean empire was indeed worldwide, and certainly encompassed the Americas, whose name comes not from a hypothetical Amerigo Vespucci, but far more probably relates to that of the Celtic Armorica.


In the version of Theopompos, the Atlanteans are confusedly equated with the Long-lived Ethiopians of Homer, Herodotus and others. The Long-lived Ethiopians, often described as tall, blond, blue-eyed giants of twice normal size, are a recurrent feature of the ancient Greek legends. More realistic historians such as Pliny and Solinus correctly place these blessed giants in the islands of Taprobane, that is, in the Indonesian islands. But others, perhaps ignoring the true meaning of the antique traditions, place the Islands of the Blest and their beautiful, saintly giants, in the Canaries and the Madeiras where we also encounter them in reality.



The Mirror of Illusion (Maya)


As we shall see further below, these ancient "confusions" were planned, and the blue-eyed "Ethiopians" of the Canaries and Mauritania were planted there as a virtual replica or "mirror image" of the real ones, the fortunate Ethiopians of Trapobane. Indeed the metaphor of the "mirror image" of Atlantis created by the Ethiopians of the Canary Islands and of the Berber coast of Mauritania is not ours, but figures in many ancient symbols and traditions. This tradition concerns the Mirror of Illusion, the characteristic attribute of deceptive goddesses such as the Indian Mayв ("Illusion") and the Greco-Roman Venus.


The motif of the Mirror of Illusion occurs even in the Americas and, particularly among the Gnostics such as the Cathars and others. The Phoenicians indeed held that the Pillars of Hercules of Gibraltar were a "mirror image" of those located in the Orient, as some of their coins specifically illustrate. Interestingly enough, Maya (the male avatar of the Mayв) is the Great Architect, the luciferine deity of the Gnostics and the enlightened civilizer of humanity. Maya (masculine of Mayв) is also the builder of legendary Lanka, the city and capital of the worldwide empire that was the actual archetype of Atlantis. In Fig. 2, we show two Phoenician coins illustrating the true Pillars of Hercules in the Far East, and their illusory reflection in Gibraltar.


As we shall see further below, Maya, the Supreme Smith of the Hindus, had his Guanche counterpart in Guayota, the Supreme God of the Guanches, and in Lug, their Celtic counterpart. Such coincidences can hardly be random. So, the only possible explanation lies in diffusion through direct contact among the civilizations in question, that is, those of the Guanches, the Celts and the Indonesian Aryans, known to the ancients as the Pious Ethiopians of Taprobane.


The Pillars of Hercules of Gibraltar and the Garden of the Hesperides of the Canaries in the Atlantic Ocean are an illusion or mirage, a mirror image of the true Islands of the Blest, in Indonesia. The Atlantic Atlantis, variously placed in the Canaries, the Azores, Tartessos (Spain), Mauritania (Morocco), or Crete is a sheer illusion created by the clever ancients in order to distract and to disillusion the inquisitive profanes of ever finding the Lost Continent and the true site of Paradise. So are the ones of the Syrtis (Libya), the Bosphorus, the Armorican coasts of Brittany, the Irish Isles, and so on.


http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243-1.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 06:07:27 pm

The Ancient Conspiracy


The reader may wonder what proof do we have to substantiate our of a conspiracy of the ancients to hide the whereabouts of Atlantis-Eden? The ancients well knew the true site of Eden or, more exactly, of the ancestral Paradise whence we all came from, and which was the site where Mankind and Civilization first started. And they also knew that this paradisial region was destroyed by the Flood at precisely the date given by Plato, that of 11,600 years ago.


But they could not tell its true location, for this was the matter of the secret of the ancient Mysteries, and this divulgation was considered a grievous crime of profanation, often punished with death, as in the case of Socrates and, possibly of Plato himself. So, the true location of Paradise was only dealt in a sort of coded language based on allegories, riddles and puns that were intelligible only to the initiated in those secrets.


Well, the evidence we gave above is just a small sample of several hundreds of compelling evidences like the ones we present below and elsewhere. Our strongest evidences for Atlantis and its true location in the Far East are both geological and anthropological. They include racial characteristics, blood types, myths, traditions, customs, techniques, artistic motifs and, above all, the linguistic, cultural and religious affinities. The last two are just about the strongest and most unequivocal of all links between different nations derived from a single stock.


In an article parallel to this one we present the philological comparison of the Guanche language to Dravida, the sacred, pristine language of the Dravidian populations of India. As can be seen in that article, the two languages, though isolated from each other by untold millennia, are remarkably similar both in phonetics and in grammar. No serious linguist will idly dismiss the cogent parallels we present there, particularly as the linguistic affiliation of the Guanche tongue is an unsolved riddle so far.


For reasons of space and scope, these two articles are kept concise and non-technical. But even then, we believe that the evidence presented is compelling enough to convince all that take the trouble to follow them in detail. Moreover, as we just said, there are simply no viable alternative theories that explain the riddle of Guanche origins in a satisfactory way. In our view - which we argue in detail here and elsewhere - this people formerly lived in Indonesia or, more exactly, in the now sunken portion of it which now forms the South China Sea. When their land sunk away, at the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age, they were forced out by the cataclysm, and moved to the Canaries, possibly in the wake of other seafaring nations such as the proto-Phoenicians and proto-Cretans.


The Twin Ethiopias of Homer and Others


From earliest times - as instanced in Homer, Hesiod, Herodotus and elsewhere - the Greeks spoke of two Ethiopias placed at the two opposite ends of the world. One corresponded to the region near Gibraltar we are presently discussing, and the other one was located beyond the Ocean (Indian), in Taprobane (Indonesia). The idea of "burnt faces" (aethi-opes) connected with the Ethiopia is not indeed an allusion to the dark coloration of this people, but to the fact that they were expelled from their homeland as the result of the fiery cataclysm that sunk Atlantis away. This catastrophe was indeed caused by the giant volcanic conflagration of Mt. Atlas, which mythically "charred" their physiognomies. In reality, this darkening was the result of the admixture with the darker neighboring nations of Indonesia, precisely as reported by Plato and others.


Emigrating from the charred remains of their sunken continent - the formerly paradisial Land of the Dead that would later become the Islands of the Blest - the Canarians (and other Atlantean nations as well) moved to the opposite side of the world, where they would attempt to rebuild their lost Paradise. Hence, the twin Ethiopias of Homer and others, and the duplicity of Pillars of Hercules, of Mt. Atlases, of Gardens of Hesperia, and so on.


Even the Ocean that encircled the earth with its ring was likewise parted into two complementary moieties ascribed to the omnipresent Atlanteans. More exactly, it was parted into two parts, one which we now call Atlantic Ocean, as did the ancients, and an eastern half that had its name changed from Atlantic Ocean into Indian (or Erythraean) Ocean. This name, which means "red" in Greek, is the mystic name of the Atlantean peoples such as the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, and even the Guanches themselves. Indeed, the "Reds" are the Chams or Chamites of the Bible, a name not unconnected with the red races just mentioned and with that of the Guanches as well.2


The Atlantis of the Orient


Many authoritative writers of antiquity place Mt. Atlas and the Atlanteans, along with the Garden of the Hesperides in the Far Occident, in the region of Mauritania and the Canaries. But no lesser authorities than Hesiod and Eurypides, among many others, place Atlas and his Pillar of Heaven in the Far Orient, at the extremities of the world and of the day, where we also find the other legendary islands associated with Atlantis and its foundering.


The Hesperides (or Atlantides) were the seven daughters and lovers of Atlas. Atlas, the Pillar of Heaven, was the personification of Mt. Atlas, just as his seven beloved daughters were the ones of the Seven Atlantic Islands that figure in many traditions, and which are no other than the ones of Indonesia. It is only natural that the giant would want to place his girls right next to the place where he stayed up the heavens, for carnal reasons, if not prompted by fatherly love. Hence, the Garden of the Hesperides of the Far Occident in an illusion not unlike the "Mt. Atlas" of Mauritania or its Canarian replica, the Teyde (or Teide) volcano.


The Mt. Atlas of Mauritania, the one we know under that name, is not indeed a volcano, and, hence, cannot at all explain the traditions concerning the conflagrative destruction of Atlantis and the fall of the former heaven when its Holy Mountain collapsed. If Mt. Atlas indeed collapsed - as volcanoes are wont to do after gigantic explosions - and if Atlantis sunk along with its environing lands, how are we to expect to find its mountain unscathed, as is the case of Mt. Teyde in the Canaries, and of Mt. Atlas, its Mauritanian counterpart.


Theopompos' Atlanteans and the Mysterious Hanebut


It is time to return to Theopompos and his cryptic Atlanteans. The "red mist" that beclouded the Meropean continent is another traditional feature that we systematically encounter in the legends concerning such mysterious regions. Ultimately, the dark "mist" is the smoke cloud that resulted from the volcanic cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis and which, indeed, blocked away sunlight, obscuring the entire region for a large time.


This darkening of the sun is a sad reality, well known to the inhabitants of the region of Indonesia, volcanically the most active in the whole world. In Hindu myths, the city associated with the cataclysmic explosion and the smoke cover is called Dhumadi. This name means "Covered by Smoke", in Sanskrit. This etym (or etymon or etymology) closely recalls the legend of Sodom and Gomorra, likewise covered by a pillar of smoke "that rose up to the very skies".


Indeed, Dhumadi was the archetype of Atlantis and, as we explain elsewhere, of Sodom and Gomorra and other such cities destroyed by a volcanic conflagration. In Egypt we encounter the same tradition under the name of the mysterious Hanebut. The name means, in Egyptian, "the Dwellers of the Misty Regions".


The Hanebut were a real people, and their region was frequently visited by the Egyptians, who traded with them across the ocean. As the Egyptians only sailed the Indian Ocean, it is clear that the region in question lay beyond that ocean, in the region of Indonesia. It was there that the mysterious country of the nebulous Cimmerians was located, as well as the Pillars of Hercules and, more exactly, those of Atlas as well. Plato places Atlantis just in front of the Pillars of Hercules. So do many other ancient authors, disguising its true identity under names such as Cimmeria, Hades, Taprobane, Cassia, Punt and Hanebut.

http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243-2.html



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 06:09:16 pm
The Celts and the Elusive Cimmerians


In Homer and others, such peoples that lived in perpetual, smoky darkness, were called Cimmerians. The Cimmerians or their equivalents are a recurrent feature of all traditions. The Germans and the Celts also spoke of such a misty region, which they called by the name of Nefelheim, "the Abode of Mist".


The Nephilim - the fallen Titans or Giants of the Bible, whose sin with the Daughters of Men led to the cataclysm of the Flood - in all probability derive their name from a radix neph meaning "nebula", "mist", as in the Greek nephele, the German nefel, the Sanskrit nabha, the Dravida nep, etc. Even in Egyptian we encounter the radix in the name of the Hanebut (or Hau-nebhu-t).


Homer (Od. X:508; XI:14) tells how the Cimmerians lived "enshrouded in mist and perpetual darkness which the sun never pierces". He places their region in Hades, beyond the Ocean, next to Mt. Erebus. Erebus is the very entrance to Hell, the terrible chasm left behind when Mt. Atlas foundered underseas, becoming a giant volcanic caldera.


The Celts are the Cimmerians of Taprobane (Sumatra)
The Cimmerians are deemed to be the ancestors of the Celts and the Scythians, two other races of blond, blue-eyed, gigantic Ethiopians. They are identified with the Cymry or Cimbri, a Germanic tribe which invaded Rome and almost defeated the empire at about 100 BC. The Cimmerians were deemed to have come from the Palus Maeotis, a legendary region often connected with the sinking of Atlantis (palus = "marshes", in Latin).

One of the triads of the Celtic Mabinogion tells how:



"Hu Gadarn originally came with the tribe of the Cymry to the Britannic Isles. They came from the Country of Summer, which is called Defrobani... They crossed the Misty Ocean (Tawch) and arrived in the Britannic Isles and Armorica, where they settled."

Here is direct evidence that the Cimmerian Celts (Cymry) indeed came from Taprobane (Sumatra), here misspelt as Defrobani. The Country of Summer (Gwlad or Haf) can only be situated at the Equator and can hardly be identified with the Hyperborean regions of the Far North, where this people also settled after fleeing their destroyed homeland. Hu Gadarn is the Celtic equivalent of Noah and of Aeneas, leading his people away from their destroyed Paradise, into the Promised Land.
Indeed, the Hyperborea whence the Celto-Iberians originally came is the realm of Apollo (the Sun), "the land beyond the Boreas". And the mythical Land of the Sun can hardly be believed to lie in the Arctic or, even less, in the Antarctic regions, as some authors will.

Actually, the Hyperboreans were held to live in the mysterious Thule, the divide of the world that lay beyond the ocean. And the word Ocean meant, for the ancients, the Indian Ocean, and never the Atlantic, which they never sailed. Thule is the same as the island of Long-Lived Ethiopians. And these Ethiopians are indeed the Hyperboreans, both legendary races being identical in being composed of tall, blond, blue-eyed Ethiopians. Both lived in the far off region of Taprobane (Indonesia), a place, the above authorities add, "which lies beyond the Aquilon".


Boreas Is Not Indeed the North Wind That Blows From The Alps
Boreas is not indeed the North Wind that blows from the Alps into Mediterranean Europe, but a figuration of the monsoon winds that blow in the northern regions of Indonesia. The name of Boreas given to the North Wind that blows in the chilly regions beyond the Alps is a replica, a "mirror image" of the true Indonesian archetype. The Hindus worship Boreas, the North Wind, under the name of Varaha (or Vayu), from whose name that of Boreas ultimately derives.

So, the mythical Hyperboreans, the mysterious "peoples that live beyond the Boreal winds" are not those who lived in the Alps, above Europe, but the ones who lived beyond the monsoon winds that blow in the northern coasts of Indonesia and nearby regions. This fact is attested by too many ancient authorities to be dismissed easily, except by solid contrary evidence

The reality of the North European Hyperboreans could never be established in realistic bases, and their postulation has only led to paradoxes and difficulties. But when we accept the assertions of Pliny, Solinus and other authorities such as the ones we have been quoting, everything starts to make sense. Besides, how could Apollo, the Sun god, make his abode in the gelid Alps, instead of the equatorial Indonesia, the true Island of the Sun of the ancients?


Pliny, Boreas, and the Hyperboreans

Now, the Aquilon is the Latin name of the North Wind, the very same one that the Greeks called by the name of Boreas. Here, it is identified with the monsoon winds of the East Indies. Hence, we see that the true location of Hyperborea or Thule was the island of Taprobane, the true abode of the blest, long-lived Ethiopians. The passage of Pliny (Hist. Nat. 4:26) on the Hyperboreans is worth quoting:



"Beyond the Aquilon one finds a blessed nation called, according to tradition, the Hypeboreans. Among them, men reach an extreme age. Many marvels are told of this people. Some say that the hinges of the world and the limit of the course of the stars lie in their region... The country is bathed in sunlight and enjoys a pleasant temperature..."
"Discord is there ignored, and so is disease. People there do not die but from the satiety of living. After a festive banquet, full of the joys of old age, the one who wants to die jumps into the seas from a lofty rock. Such is for them the happiest way to die. One cannot doubt the reality of this country, described by many authorities."


Pliny, in the above passage, also adds that Hyperborea was the realm of Apollo and that the Hyperboreans sent, from the island of Delos, the first-fruits of their crops to Greece, to be dedicated to the Sun God. The descriptions of Hyperborea in the many authors mentioned by Pliny are indeed those of a tropical Paradise not unlike the Garden of Eden and the Islands of the Blest. When one pauses to ponder, there is only one place in the world that fits the description of Atlantis, of Eden, Aztlan, Atala, and of other such Paradises turned Hell. That place can only be the Indies, as can be surmised from the dozens of traditional accounts. A posteriori, this conclusion of ours is so obvious it hurts.

Apollo and the Hyperboreans
It is interesting to note that Plato, in his detailed description of Atlantis, makes an obscure reference to the lofty rocks from which the Blest Ethiopians used to throw themselves into the waves, in an immitation of the primordial deed of Atlas and Hesperus, who also fell from such a lofty cliff. Actually, these cliffs were the legendary Leucades, whose name is a reference to their being covered by the white bones of the dead who went by throwing themselves from their tops.3

Pliny's Hyperborea also evokes the description of the island of Emain Abalach (Avalon) in Celtic poems. There:



Treason is there unknown and so is sadness.
There no pain, no regret, no death, no grief,
No disease, no weakness, ever afflict anyone.
For such is the fortune of Emain.

Another a similar Celtic poem adds:


What a wonderful country is this one!
There the young never grow old at all!


What is to be retained from the above discussion is the fact that Avalon, Hyperborea, Thule, Taprobane, Eden, Paradise, Emain Abalach, the Garden of the Golden Apples, the Garden of Idun and so on are all one and the same thing. Their connection with the "first fruits" is an allegoric reference to the fact that Atlantis was indeed the very first site of human civilization, the same as the legendary Paradise or Garden of Eden.
These pleasant, luxurious gardens all lay at the extremity of the world which, from the Celtic perspective in Brittany, could only be the antipodal Indonesia, located on the side of the world opposite to their own misty islands. This Paradise was destroyed by a cataclysm, and they were forced to leave it, emigrating to the far Occident, under the leadership of Hu Gadarn, the Celtic Noah, the Judeo-Christian hero of the Flood.

The sinking of this realm is told in the legend of the Flooding of Ys, another central tradition of Celtic mythology. And their sunken Paradise became the Land of the Dead, the "Tomb of Glass" (Glastonbury) or "Island of Glass" (Ynis Wydr) that we encounter so often in their Celtic legends. This dismal Hades is the same as the Cimmeria of the Greeks, the Hanebut of the Egyptians, the Sheol of the Jews and the Nefelheim of the Germanic Nations.


How the Guanches Got to the Canaries

Many writers who investigated the problem of the Guanches were puzzled by the fact that the natives of the Canaries detested the sea, and never sailed it at all. So, it is pertinent to ask, after them, how did the Guanches get to the isolated Canaries in the first place? The answer seems to be rather simple, after all. They were brought as passengers in the ships of seafaring peoples such as the Phoenicians, the Etruscans, the Minoan Cretans, and so forth. Indeed, the ancient records are full of references to the "ships of Tarshish" being used by passengers and migrants of several different nations.

When the White Ethiopians who survived the Atlantean cataclysm emigrated to the distant Occident in their ships - under the guidance of admirals like Aeneas, Hercules, Phoroneos, and Hu Gadarn and, perhaps, Noah, Canopus and Jason - they settled in colonies along the way, on every coast and every island that looked promising. The legends are certainly founded in actual fact, and these fleets of ocean worth vessels are the ones allegorized as the Ark of Noah in the Bible or as the Argonavis in Greek legends.

It was thus that Mauritania was settled by the Berbers, Lebanon by the Phoenicians, Crete by the Minoans, Italy by the Etruscans, the British Islands and Brittany by the Celts and, of course, the Canaries by the Guanches. Many of these emigrants were, as is usually the case, mere passengers who never knew how to sail or, even less, how to design and build sea-worthy ships strong enough to sail the open, rough ocean, a feat very hard to accomplish in antiquity. Such huge sailships - the "ships of Tarshish" of Biblical traditions - are attested from remotest antiquity, for instance in the Gerzean ceramics of pre-Dynastic Egypt, which date from about 5,500 BP or so.

In this way, the Guanches were stranded on the Canaries, and the enigma which has defied solution for millennia is naturally explained. The ancient peripluses like those of Hanno and Himilco relate similar expeditions and even the establishment of such insular colonies. Such is also the meaning of myths like the one of Aeneas and his fleet fleeing from the destroyed, sunken Troy or, also, of the Biblical relate of Noah and his clan repeopling the Islands of the Nations, and founding the different nations of mankind.

http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243-3.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:18:43 pm
The Rock - Gibraltar


(http://www3.sympatico.ca/pjdavis/gibraltar3.jpg)
 
Gibraltar is a British colony located on a peninsula at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea. It is roughly five km long and one km wide. It borders on the Spanish town of La Linea located in the South of Spain. We elected to stay in La Linea due to the high cost of accomodation in Gibraltar.


Gibraltar is self governing today and is only dependent on Britain for defence. It is the only British colony on the European mainland. Gibraltar has several attractions that are well worth visiting. The rock itself has two packs of apes. One of which can be seen every day at the Ape's Den and the other pack lives wild on the rock. At the top of the rock there are fabulous views of Gibraltar and the north coast of Morocco. 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/pjdavis/gibraltar.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:21:38 pm
HERE ARE PICTURES OF GIBRALTAR

This small, but strategically placed country is fiercely owned by England. They refuse to give it up, and it is a major thorn in English/Spanish relations. It has a huge network of tunnels and caves which have been used for defense througout history - protecting whatever nation occupied it at the time. (Usually England.) The caves were readied for a hospital during the World War in the 1940s, but thankfully never used. Part of the "hospital" space is now used as an underground theater (St. Michael's Caves) for operas, plays, concerts, etc. The Seige Tunnels are open for touring and are quite interesting. There is a related museum which we had to skip, but I think it is worth a visit. There are Moorish Baths here, and many other historical sites. The old town is very unique with its "streets" of walkways w/stairs. Many of the ancient fortress walls have survived, incorporated into the town buildings. Get a guide book and go and visit for a day. It's a great experience! Here's Gibraltar's Tourism Site.

NOTE: money is the Gibraltar pound. English pounds can be used, too. Spanish pesetas are accepted, but at a worse exchange rate. All shops are duty free on all items except liquor, tobacco, perfume. The town was packed when we visited - not with tourists - with Christmas shoppers from Spain and other nearby countries! If you want to picnic on one of the beaches, hit the Safeway (follow signs) next to the McDonald's (can't escape them anywhere in Europe). It's huge and an adventure in its own right!

(http://munnwerks.com/spain99/togib.jpg)

Almost ready to cross from Spain to the Rock of Gibraltar. You can see it in the background. It was once known as one of the "Pillars of Hercules" and believed that to sail beyond it into the Atlantic was to invite certain death. That old "falling off the edge of the earth myth."

(http://munnwerks.com/spain99/GibHarbor.jpg)

The harbor between Gib (as the locals refer to it) and Spain. The airstrip was built right out into the water and you have to drive across it to get onto the Rock.

(http://munnwerks.com/spain99/Gibmonkey.jpg)
The girls' favorite day - they got to pet these Barbary Apes. There are signs posted which warn against feeding them, as they might bite. We didn't see the signs until after we had already touched them .... They were quite friendly and liked to have their ears scratched. They were a little rude, as one peed on the car, and another "mooned" us! They ate bread, but really loved chocolate chip cookies.



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http://www.munnwerks.com/spain99/gibraltar.html



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:26:48 pm
More on Gibraltar:

(http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gib/aprt-b17.JPG)

(http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gib/v-spain3.JPG)



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:30:50 pm
(http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gib/boat23.JPG)

Gibraltar tunnels:

(http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gib/north-rd.JPG)

These are some awesome shots of Gibraltar, which the Atlantean navy would have had to pass through in order to invade the Mediterranean, the "Pillars of Hercules."

A complete Gibraltar photo gallery:

http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gibraltar.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:34:31 pm
Cape Verde

(http://home.hiwaay.net/~jalison/verde.jpg)

The Cape Verde Islands are half-way between Machupicchu and the Great Pyramid, fifty miles north of the line of ancient sites. These islands are also half-way between Easter Island and the Indus Valley. When the Cape Verde Islands were rediscovered by European mariners in 1460 they were found to be uninhabited. However, islands in this location are found on earlier maps and described as inhabited in ancient times.

The Mecia de Viladestes map of 1413 shows islands at this location labeled Gades. The information in this map is thought to have come from Roman sources dating back to the first century AD. The Discoveries of the World from their first originall unto the yeere of our Lord 1555, written by Antonio Galvao in 1563, lists the ancient names for the Cape Verde Islands as the Dorcades, Hesperides and the Gorgades. A 1587 map by Richard Hakluyt also labels the Cape Verde Islands as the Gorgades and the Hesperides.

In ancient Greek Mythology, the Island of Atlantis was given to Poseidon. Atlas was Poseidon's son and the first king of Atlantis. The seven daughters of Atlas were known as the Atlantides. Because their mother was named Hesperis, they were also known as the Hesperides.


http://home.hiwaay.net/~jalison/capev.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:41:54 pm
http://www.maltastar.com/pages/msDossierDetailN.asp?id=10483&po=2

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Why Did The Med Dry Up?
25 June 2003 - Prof Victor Axiak*



Last week we had a collective dry nightmare of the Mediterranean Sea drying up. We saw how the stretch between Malta and Sicily was turned into a dusty plateau, with the occasional deep valley cutting through it. We also saw how both the Eastern and Western basins of this sea tuned into deep holes with vast expanses of salt flats alternating with occasional mountains. The climate within these dried up basins was very harsh and not many animal and plant forms were able to survive. On the other hand, the surrounding climate of the region is cooler and drier as an important moisture source disappeared.
The problem with this nightmare/dream is that it DID happen.
Why?
How?
The first real indication of this cataclysmic past event came to light in 1970 when an international group of scientists started drilling the Mediterranean seafloor. Strange things started turning up in core samples: layers of microscopic plants and soil sandwiched between huge beds of salt more than two kilometres below today's sea level. The plants had grown in sunlight. Could the seafloor once have been near a shoreline? Or did the sea ever evaporated, leaving behind massive deposits of salts and what was once the sea floor, exposed to air! Eventually, most scientists agreed with the latter proposition: The Med did dry up. What’s more fantastic about this idea is that this sea probably dried up, only to be refilled with seawater more than once!
As we all know, the Mediterranean sea is exposed to intense sunlight which evaporates huge volumes of seawater. In fact, in spite of being replenished by a number of rivers which flow in it, some scientists have estimated that the sea level of our sea should go down by one metre every year, due to this water loss. So what stops this from happening? Well, this does not happen thanks to the Straits of Gibraltar through which water from the Atlantic is flowing in to compensate for the water loss due to the evaporation by the sun.

 
As the last Atlantic waters dripped over into the Mediterranean, this body of water began to become a hypersaline lake as evaporation exceeded precipitation and it eventually dried up (PICTURE 2). Prior to completely drying up, there could have been smaller hypersaline lakes, in which little or no marine life survived. As such lakes eventually evaporated as well, they left behind them thick deposits of salts. And these salt deposits were one of the first clues which suggested the possibility that our sea dried up, millions of years ago. Some remnants of these salt deposits today form salt mines which are commercially exploited (PICTURE 3)
 
About 5.3 million years ago, a small breach in the Gibraltar dam sent the process into reverse. Ocean water gushed out cutting a tiny channel to the Mediterranean. As the channel enlarged, the water flowed faster and faster, until the torrent ripped through the emerging Strait of Gibraltar at more than 100 knots. That must have been quite a sight (PICTURE 4)!
Eventually, the rising waters drowned the falls and warm Mediterranean water began to escape to the Atlantic, reheating the oceans and the planet. The salinity crisis ended about 5.3 million years ago. It had lasted roughly 600 000 years.
 
Incidentally, the pictures shown in the present contribution should not be taken literally or as being accurate enough. For example, it is quite likely that a few million years ago, the morphology of the Mediterranean was quite unlike that of today! However these pictures do give us a rough idea of what happened.
Can this event happen again? Yes. It is not unlikely that future continental drift will push the African continent closer to Europe sealing off the Straits of Gibraltar yet again.
Can it happen in our lifetime?
Certainly not.
These events are of a geological nature and therefore normally take place at VERY SLOW rates. So, it is quite likely that the human species will not be around to witness a repeat performance of this event.
What a pity!


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:49:12 pm
(http://z.about.com/d/archaeology/1/5/2/C/Mastodon3.jpg)

The remains of woolly mammoths and mastdons have washed up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, there have been accounts of that, they just haven't found any remains of that yet. It's even mentioned in the Andrew Collins book, "Gateway to Atlantis."

The passage I'm talking about from the Collins books comes from page 58 of my copy, under the chapter "Atlanticus."

It reads like this:

"What we cany say is that various species of mammoth and mastodon inhabited the American continent prior to the cessation of the last Ice Age, c 9000-8500 b.c. Conceivably, such enormous beasts could have been construed as elephants, invoking the possibility that they might have existed on Plato's Atlantic Island. In support of this theory Atlantologists cite the fact that mammoth and mastodon bones have been trawled up from the sea bottom by vessels fishing off the Atlantic shelf, close to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Despite such inexplicable curiosities there is no hard evidence whatsoever to lend credibility to the idea of elephants in Atlantis."

Collins' footnote credits Donato, A Re-examination of the Atlantis Theory, p 46, after K.O. Emery in Oceanus magazine. Hansen, p. 399

Now, I like Andrew Collins research a lot, but some of his conclusions often are kind of weird. To disqualify the idea of hard evidence of elephants in Atlantis, I think we have to know where Atlantis was. Collins, of course, places it in Cuba, and it's to his credit that he even mentions anything supporting an Azores Atlantis at all. Most researchers, I've noticed, either try to rip apart evidence that it may have been in other places or don't even mention it at all in order to support their pet theories.

Between, the elephant bones trawled up by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (and I'm still looking for the original sources and, of course, for pictures), the fact that the O'Briens have mapped out a sunken area there roughly the size of Spain, and that bigger parts of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were almost certainly above sea level during the Ice Age (which I'll get into later), the Azores becomes just as strong a candidate for Atlantis as it ever was, although, in my opinion it's not the only one!
 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 07:55:21 pm
This next bit of information should eliminate, once and for all, that Atlantis could have been Spain or anything other than a large island in the Atlantic.
Thie first quote comes from Atalante in the thead entitled "Atlantis=Island-Peninsula"


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Strabo explained the difference between continents, islands, and peninsulas.
quote from: http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/1D*.html

"Next, after saying that there has been much discussion about the continents, and that some divide them by the rivers (the Nile and the Tanaïs), declaring them to be islands, while others divide them by the isthmuses (the isthmus between the Caspian and the Pontic Seas, and the isthmus between the Red Sea and the Ecregma), and that the latter call the continents peninsulas, Eratosthenes then says that he does not see how this investigation can end in any practical result, but that it belongs only to persons who choose to live on a diet of disputation"

At the bottom of the following link there is a map of the continents, as the Greeks understood them at that time. http://www.livius.org/ea-eh/edges/edges.html


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To which our friend Chronos also added in the original version of this thread:


quote:
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Incidentally, even if the translation reads "before" rather than "beyond" the Pillars of Hercules, it doesn't neccessarily disqualify the Azores as Atlantis. In fact, for Atlantis to actually be Spain, one might argue that the translation would have to read "beside" the Pillars of Hercules, rather than "before." That would be their correct geographic location.
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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:10:24 pm
To which I'll also add these quotes from Critias & Timaeus:

quote:
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"The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."
"Such was the vast power which the god settled in the lost island of Atlantis;

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."


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As Andrew Collins also says, "you really have to play around with the geography of Timaeus for Atlantis to be in Spain."




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:12:33 pm
This is more information on the Russian discoveries of Atlantis, though still no pictures:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter3_2.htm


quote:
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Soviet Case for Atlantis

On the 27th of March 1979, the Soviet vessel, of oceanographic research, "Vityaz" was found at the delta of the Portugeuese river Tago. During the same night journalists from all over the country and abroad, would listen to Dr. Ascenov's scientific announcements regarding the results of their research in the Atlantic.
After the necessary introduction to the journalists, the Soviet oceanologist announced some peculiar results regarding their research within the Atlantic ocean.

" In an Area that is located 900 kilometers off the Portuguese shores, an underwater plateau was identified, with strange formations. The plateau is on top of an underwater mountain. After extensive research and based to the measurements of our scientific equipment, we have identified possible ruins of a submerged city. We clearly identified destroyed walls and gigantic stairs. And although all these items are covered with loads of marine plants, we managed to take clear photos of the area. The photos are showing symmetrical stone constructions, staircases and other remains. All this material will be sent to Moscow for further analysis".
     
this short announcement, the soviet scientists revealed to the journalists, that they could have probably found Atlantis.
The Soviet vessel continued its mission searching the oceanic floor west of Madeira.

Close to this area there is an underwater mountain called "Amber". Five years later, in 1984 when the Soviet scientists concluded their research, they announced that "Amber" mountain, once was an island that was eventually submerged without giving any more information.

In September of the following year (1985) "Pravda" reported that the Soviets had pulled out of the ocean, from a depth of 4,500 meters a strange piece of marble. This discovery was made by another Soviet vessel: "Academic Boris Petrov". This new finding, puzzled the scientists.
The marble artifact's sides were smoothened. Its color was yellowish. Its schema betrayed artificial origin. The Soviet scientists mentioned that it was definitely man-made. By chemical analysis they produced palaeochronology results, showing that this piece of marble was lying at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years (the experimental procedure unfortunately was not published).

The leading scientist of the Soviet Academy of Science, Leo Chitrov declared that he would personally head the research for the chemical analysis of the find. Since then, the Soviet Academy never announced anything regarding the results.


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:16:28 pm
Here is an interview with one of the Russian scientists who visited the Ampere Seamounts in the 1980's. Apparently, they have been there in 1974, 1978, 1984 and 1986. That's a lot of visits, and the information in the article seems to correspond with the recent interest in the area of the ocean just to the east. I read a quote from Dr. Maxine Asher's website where she also says that there are "four sunken cities in the area just to the west of Gibraltar."


quote:
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Searching for the Lost Continent
07/09/2003 16:45

Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores.
Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday.  This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.
Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.
Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.
Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:22:57 pm
From 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (Jules Verne)
http://jv.gilead.org.il/fpwalter/2/09.html

I looked back down the side we had just cleared. There the mountain rose only 700 to 800 feet above the plains; but on its far slope it crowned the receding bottom of this part of the Atlantic by a height twice that. My eyes scanned the distance and took in a vast area lit by intense flashes of light. In essence, this mountain was a volcano. Fifty feet below its peak, amid a shower of stones and slag, a wide crater vomited torrents of lava that were dispersed in fiery cascades into the heart of the liquid mass. So situated, this volcano was an immense torch that lit up the lower plains all the way to the horizon.

As I said, this underwater crater spewed lava, but not flames. Flames need oxygen from the air and are unable to spread underwater; but a lava flow, which contains in itself the principle of its incandescence, can rise to a white heat, overpower the liquid element, and turn it into steam on contact. Swift currents swept away all this diffuse gas, and torrents of lava slid to the foot of the mountain, like the disgorgings of a Mt. Vesuvius over the city limits of a second Torre del Greco.

In fact, there beneath my eyes was a town in ruins, demolished, overwhelmed, laid low, its roofs caved in, its temples pulled down, its arches dislocated, its columns stretching over the earth; in these ruins you could still detect the solid proportions of a sort of Tuscan architecture; farther off, the remains of a gigantic aqueduct; here, the caked heights of an acropolis along with the fluid forms of a Parthenon; there, the remnants of a wharf, as if some bygone port had long ago harbored merchant vessels and triple-tiered war galleys on the shores of some lost ocean; still farther off, long rows of collapsing walls, deserted thoroughfares, a whole Pompeii buried under the waters, which Captain Nemo had resurrected before my eyes!

Where was I? Where was I? I had to find out at all cost, I wanted to speak, I wanted to rip off the copper sphere imprisoning my head.

But Captain Nemo came over and stopped me with a gesture. Then, picking up a piece of chalky stone, he advanced to a black basaltic rock and scrawled this one word:

ATLANTIS

What lightning flashed through my mind! Atlantis, that ancient land of Meropis mentioned by the historian Theopompus; Plato’s Atlantis; the continent whose very existence has been denied by such philosophers and scientists as Origen, Porphyry, Iamblichus, d’Anville, Malte-Brun, and Humboldt, who entered its disappearance in the ledger of myths and folk tales; the country whose reality has nevertheless been accepted by such other thinkers as Posidonius, Pliny, Ammianus Marcellinus, Tertullian, Engel, Scherer, Tournefort, Buffon, and d’Avezac; I had this land right under my eyes, furnishing its own unimpeachable evidence of the catastrophe that had overtaken it! So this was the submerged region that had existed outside Europe,Asia, and Libya, beyond the Pillars of Hercules, home of those powerful Atlantean people against whom ancient Greece had waged its earliest wars!

The writer whose narratives record the lofty deeds of those heroic times is Plato himself. His dialogues Timaeus and Critias were drafted with the poet and legislator Solon as their inspiration, as it were.

One day Solon was conversing with some elderly wise men in the Egyptian capital of Sais, a town already 8,000 years of age, as documented by the annals engraved on the sacred walls of its temples. One of these elders related the history of another town 1,000 years older still. This original city of Athens, ninety centuries old, had been invaded and partly destroyed by the Atlanteans. These Atlanteans, he said, resided on an immense continent greater than Africa and Asia combined, taking in an area that lay between latitude 12° and 40° north. Their dominion extended even to Egypt. They tried to enforce their rule as far as Greece, but they had to retreat before the indomitable resistance of the Hellenic people. Centuries passed. A cataclysm occurred—floods, earthquakes. A single night and day were enough to obliterate this Atlantis, whose highest peaks (Madeira, the Azores, the Canaries, the Cape Verde Islands) still emerge above the waves.

These were the historical memories that Captain Nemo’s scrawl sent rushing through my mind. Thus, led by the strangest of fates, I was treading underfoot one of the mountains of that continent! My hands were touching ruins many thousands of years old, contemporary with prehistoric times! I was walking in the very place where contemporaries of early man had walked! My heavy soles were crushing the skeletons of animals from the age of fable, animals that used to take cover in the shade of these trees now turned to stone!

Oh, why was I so short of time! I would have gone down the steep slopes of this mountain, crossed this entire immense continent, which surely connects Africa with America, and visited its great prehistoric cities. Under my eyes there perhaps lay the warlike town of Makhimos or the pious village of Eusebes, whose gigantic inhabitants lived for whole centuries and had the strength to raise blocks of stone that still withstood the action of the waters. One day perhaps, some volcanic phenomenon will bring these sunken ruins back to the surface of the waves! Numerous underwater volcanoes have been sighted in this part of the ocean, and many ships have felt terrific tremors when passing over these turbulent depths. A few have heard hollow noises that announced some struggle of the elements far below, others have hauled in volcanic ash hurled above the waves. As far as the equator this whole seafloor is still under construction by plutonic forces. And in some remote epoch, built up by volcanic disgorgings and successive layers of lava, who knows whether the peaks of these fire-belching mountains may reappear above the surface of the Atlantic!

As I mused in this way, trying to establish in my memory every detail of this impressive landscape, Captain Nemo was leaning his elbows on a moss-covered monument, motionless as if petrified in some mute trance. Was he dreaming of those lost generations, asking them for the secret of human destiny? Was it here that this strange man came to revive himself, basking in historical memories, reliving that bygone life, he who had no desire for our modern one? I would have given anything to know his thoughts, to share them, understand them!

We stayed in this place an entire hour, contemplating its vast plains in the lava’s glow, which sometimes took on a startling intensity. Inner boilings sent quick shivers running through the mountain’s crust. Noises from deep underneath, clearly transmitted by the liquid medium, reverberated with majestic amplitude.

Just then the moon appeared for an instant through the watery mass, casting a few pale rays over this submerged continent. It was only a fleeting glimmer, but its effect was indescribable. The captain stood up and took one last look at these immense plains; then his hand signaled me to follow him.

We went swiftly down the mountain. Once past the petrified forest, I could see the Nautilus’s beacon twinkling like a star. The captain walked straight toward it, and we were back on board just as the first glimmers of dawn were whitening the surface of the ocean.

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=2


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on March 30, 2007, 10:30:09 am
DEAR  DHILL,

:( DID YOU KNOW that the Atlantic Ocean's name was invented no earlier than 1648 at the peace-treaty of Münster by request of the Dutch sailors who destested sailing in the "Spainsh SEA"?

Before that,  the only Ocean that Plato could have known and meant to be the World-Ocean or Oikumenes was the INDIAN-Ocean!   Everywhere the ancients speak of "the ATLANTIC" whether Herodotus or Plato, they ALWAYS meant the INDIAN Ocean.

All the other "Oceans" got their oceanic signatures AFTER Plato's death, so Plato could heve never given reference to Geographical names that did not exist during his lifetime!  Do I have to spell it out for you again; don't you get it?


Columbus held his arabic-Atlantis Map upside Down and thus America is not in the game as an Atlantis candidate! 

If The Coordinates for Atlantis were checked in the Indian Ocean than "Atlantikoum Pelagous" would be the GULF-of-ADEN and ADEN ofcourse would be :"Atlantis".


Sincerely   "BlueHue"


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Apollo on March 30, 2007, 11:44:12 am
Bluehue,

Of course, you know that is incorrect. The first mention of the Atlantic comes from Herodotus, and the Romans are typically attributed with giving the Atlantic Ocean it's name.

The Pacific Ocean was named in more recent times, however, perhaps you're thinking of that.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on March 30, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
YES, Apollo, THAT too,

 :D By-the-way-  I am  Glad to make your aquintance!

 :'( indeed the Romans have re-named many parts of the World with pretentious names. The Ports of CADIZ/Gadeira & Cartagena were renamed by the Punicians only in 200 bc, by the colonist General Hasdrubal from Carthage.  after the second Punic War, in remembrance of the glorious past of Atlantis as, an originally  punician Capital in Araby.  The Cities: Cartage; Sidon &Tyrus were also colonies of Older Cities with the same name in South-Araby

Sidon comes from "ADEN"(= a word-corruption from:  Po-Sidon.) Tyrus comes from "TSUR"; Cartage comes from: "Ras-FARTAK" etc.

Before 200 bc the Atlantic names in Spain did not exist.
but the whisfull-thinking Atlantologists make it seem as if These fairly recent atlantean-names in classical geography were 10.000 years old!


But Plato only knew ONE Ocean in his lifetime and so did Herodotus this was named the MARE-ERYTRAEUM it's alternative name was "Indian-Ocean".  and THAT part which bordered the Atlantic mainland was called the Atlkantic-Ocean which is a misnomer for: "Atlantikoum-Pelagiou" meaning the GULF-of-ADEN

Others called it not an Ocean-Brance but a Sea-Strait.

The Mediaterranean likewise was sometimes named Mare Nostrum, the Egyptians named it the BIG -Blue-Sea and what WE call the RED-Sea was for the egyptians the GREEN-Sea.

So we have a problem here: The indian Ocean was originally Known as MARE-Erytraeum which means ofcourse the Wine-Dark  SEA , and if the Arabs would have had their way, to day it would be named"{ Arab-"SEA".)

And the Atlantic-Ocean was originally known as:"Spanish-SEA"

Sincerely  :'(  "BlueHue"   :'(


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 02:36:08 pm
From Riven:

(http://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/images/ct000725.jpg)

Universalis Cosmographia Secundum Ptholomaei Traditionem et Americi Vespucii Alioru[m]que Lustrationes,
St. Dié, 1507
 

Recognizing and Naming America


Martin Waldseemüller’s 1507 world map grew out of an ambitious project in St. Dié, near Strasbourg, France, during the first decade of the sixteenth century, to document and update new geographic knowledge derived from the discoveries of the late fifteenth and the first years of the sixteenth centuries. Waldseemüller’s large world map was the most exciting product of that research effort, and included data gathered during Amerigo Vespucci’s voyages of 1501–1502 to the New World. Waldseemüller christened the new lands "America" in recognition of Vespucci ’s understanding that a new continent had been uncovered as a result of the voyages of Columbus and other explorers in the late fifteenth century. This is the only known surviving copy of the first printed edition of the map, which, it is believed, consisted of 1,000 copies.

Waldseemüller’s map supported Vespucci’s revolutionary concept by portraying the New World as a separate continent, which until then was unknown to the Europeans. It was the first map, printed or manuscript, to depict clearly a separate Western Hemisphere, with the Pacific as a separate ocean. The map represented a huge leap forward in knowledge, recognizing the newly found American landmass and forever changing the European understanding of a world divided into only three parts—Europe, Asia, and Africa.


Martin Waldseemüller (1470–1521)
Universalis Cosmographia Secundum Ptholomaei Traditionem et Americi Vespucii Alioru[m]que Lustrationes, [St. Dié], 1507
Facsimile made from original woodcut
Geography and Map Division, Library of Congress
 
http://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/waldexh.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 02:42:30 pm
(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/wgimages/BN11465_17.jpg)

Sinister grey bulk of Mt Fogo, which last erupted in 1995 (Photographer: Frances Linzee Gordon)

Cape Verde
History


The history of Cape Verde is dominated by three overriding facts: there were no people of any sort on the islands when the Portuguese first arrived; the environment has become increasingly fragile over the centuries, largely due to the impact of people and overgrazing; and it's farther from the African mainland and closer to the Americas than any other African country. It's hardly surprising, therefore, that Cape Verde developed along lines somewhat different from the rest of Africa.

When Portuguese mariners first landed in Cape Verde in 1456, the islands were barren of people but not of vegetation. Seeing the islands today, you find it hard to imagine that they were once sufficiently verde (green) to entice the Portuguese to return six years later to the island of São Tiago to found Ribeira Grande (now Cidade Velha). The Portuguese soon brought slaves from the West African coast to do the hard labour. The islands also became a convenient base for ships transporting slaves to Europe and the Americas.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 02:45:20 pm
(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/wgimages/BN11465_15.jpg)

Environment

The Cape Verde islands are in the Atlantic Ocean, 620km (385mi) west of West Africa's coast at Mauritania. There are 10 major islands (9 of them inhabited) and 5 islets, all of volcanic origin and grouped into the Barlavento (Windward) group (Santo Antão, São Vicente, Santa Luzia, Ilheu Branco, Ilheu Raso, São Nicolau, Sal and Boa Vista) to the north and the Sotavento (Leeward) group (Maio, São Tiago, Fogo and Brava) to the south.

The interior of the main island, São Tiago, is mountainous, and Fogo has the islands' highest peak, Mt Fogo (2840m/9320ft). Fogo was rocked by a volcanic eruption in 1995; there have been seven such eruptions since 1760. Many of the islands are arid and hilly, and cultivation of the hillsides has caused widespread soil erosion. Santo Antão has the highest rainfall and tends to be much greener than the other islands.

Common plants in the islands include rhododendrons, the fire tree, dragon tree, marmulano, corn plant and the Florida Beauty dracaena.

Among the islands' most colourful fauna are its coral and fish, especially in the waters around Sal, where you'll see parrot fish, barracuda and moray eels. You might also spot blue and humpback whales, the narrow-snouted dolphin, harbour porpoise and loggerhead, green and hawksbill turtles. The Raza Island lark, Cape Verde petrel, brown booby, frigatebird, tropicbird and Cape Verde warbler are among the birds winging around the archipelago. Creepy crawlies include the Cape Verde skink and the giant Cape Verde gecko.

Cape Verde has the coolest temperatures of any country in West Africa. Daily highs range from 20°C (68°F) to around 29°C (84°F) from August to October, when there can also be rainstorms. Due to ocean currents, the sea is also considerably chillier than along the West African coast.


(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/wgimages/BN11465_6.jpg)

Area: 4,030 sq km
Population: 401,343
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/africa/cape_verde/environment.htm




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 02:51:35 pm
(http://www.grahamhancock.com/images/forum/AlisonJ1-fig26.gif)


G = Great Pyramid

A = Angkor Wat

V = Anatom Island

E = Easter Island

X = Atlantis?


"For example, the midway point between the Great Pyramid and Machupicchu is in the North Atlantic Ocean, approximately one degree south of the Cape Verde Islands. This is also the midway point between Easter Island and the Indus Valley. Although the Cape Verde Islands were found to be uninhabited when they were rediscovered in 1460 A.D., maps and geographical descriptions for the past 2000 years have shown this location to be the home of ancient island civilizations, including maps showing this location to be the site of Atlantis. In Plato's account of Atlantis, there was a mountainous region north of the city. Are the higher elevations of those mountains now the Cape Verde Islands?
"The distance from the Great Pyramid to Easter Island is approximately 40% of the circumference of the Earth. The X in the diagram is halfway between the two, 20% each way. Machupicchu is halfway between the X in the diagram and Easter Island, 10% each way. The Distance from the Great Pyramid to Angkor Wat is approximately 20% of the circumference, and the Indus Valley is halfway between the two, 10% each way. The Distance from Easter Island to Angkor Wat is approximately 40% of the circumference, and Anatom Island is halfway between them, 20% each way. These sites are located in multiples of 10% of the circumference of the Earth, and particularly at 20% intervals. Although there are no islands near the location of the X in the diagram, it is interesting to note that the famous Piri Reis map shows a large island in this location, and the geology of recent core samples, taken from the ocean floor in this area, is of continental rather than oceanic type rock:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geological structure of the Strakhov fracture zone (equatorial segment of the Mid-Atlantic ridge)
G. B. Udintsev, A. F. Beresnev, V. M. Golod, A. V. Kol'tsova, N. A. Kurentsova, and M. V. Zakharov

Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow
G. V. Agapova


Institute of Geology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

L. P. Volokitina

P. P. Shirshov Institute of Oceanology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

V. G. Udintsev

Shmidt Institute of Earth Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abstract

Geological-geophysical data obtained during cruises 7, 11, and 12 of R/V Akademic Nikolay Strakhov (1989-1991) within the international project EQUARIDGE in the region of Strakhov fracture zone (4oN) are presented. The trough of the fracture is interpreted as an open extension joint, a graben produced by stretching along the axis of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Bedrock studies showed that the typical mid-oceanic tholeiitic basalts occur within the narrow (60 nm wide) axial rift zone, whereas igneous rocks not typical to the ocean were found on the eastern and western flank plateaus. This allows us to suppose that a reworked relict continental-type basement of pre-Upper Jurassic age possibly exists beneath the flank plateaus, within the segment under discussion. The above data correspond to the hypothesis by E. Bonatti about a nonspreading nature of the basement of Mid-Atlantic Ridge within the Equatorial segment and the Strakhov fracture zone.

Figures 3, Tables 3, References 22, Pages 544-558
Received December 16, 1993


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:01:02 pm
(http://www.goodmoney.com/remap2.gif)

Madeira

 The closest thing to an off-season on this flowering Atlantic island north of the Canaries and far nearer Africa than Portugal may be midsummer when the European regulars are home tending their own gardens and the cruise ships move on to the Aegean.

Just as the Gulf Stream keeps the temperature of the ocean mild (64-68F) and there is no true rainy season (they admit to brief intense showers in March, April and October), the winter low is 65 and the summer high, 85. In November when it's 40 and raining in London, 20 and dark in Stockholm, it's 75 and sunny in Madeira. Flying time from Lisbon is one and one-half hours.

The lush environment of Madeira might easily have been exploited and its blessings taken for granted, but such is not the case. This politically autonomous region of Portugal has taken a cue from its ecologically aware home country: protect and prosper. Two thirds of Madeira and its sister island Porto Santo are a Natural Park conservation area. Even its uninhabited outpost isles, the tiny Desertas and Selvagens, are kept as sanctuaries for seabirds and breeding grounds for seals.

More than 600 miles of narrow irrigation channels (called "levadas") were built to bring water from the mountains to where it was most needed. Footpaths run beside them creating a web of ideal hiking trails all across the island. Escorted hikes and group excursions are offered by local travel agencies and hotels, but individuals, couples and families can plan their own walks using maps and information sheets provided by the tourist office. Trails are coded 1 to 4, easy to difficult. Small inns and restored houses in rural areas cater to hikers.

The flora is so exotic it seems contrived. Anthurium; orchids; bird-of-paradise; variegated lilies; protea and other flowers usually seen only in florists (and priced by the stem) bloom voluntarily. The Botanical Gardens, originally the country estate of the Reid family who built Reid's Hotel in Funchal a century ago, has acres of gardens, a tropical bird section and an outdoor cafe. The orchid collection is at its best December to April. A dozen private gardens are also open to the public certain days and hours, while April is the month of the three-day flower festival in Funchal.

Some 68 plants including three varieties of orchids grow in Madeira but nowhere else, at least not in their natural environment. Another 42 also occur in the Azores, Canaries and Cape Verde (the total region is called Macaronesia), and still others brought here by accident or intent on trading vessels from Asia and Africa quickly adapted to the soil and climate.

Bananas, mangos, avocados, papaya, oranges, lemons, guavas, custard apples and passion fruit grow in terraced orchards and are for sale in Funchal's vast covered market or by the side of the road. Walnuts and chestnuts are so abundant they have their own festivals upcountry in summer. The great Madeira wines are aged in oak barrels from the United States since oak trees on the island are protected.

Wickerware is made from the nonendangered and plentiful willow, and the village of Camacha is well-off because of it. Incidentally, one of the more creative ways to descend a mountain is in a "Carro de Cesto," a two-person wicker basket on runners. The ride, referred to locally as a "sleigh ride," goes from Monte to Funchal and was originally a market shortcut.

Madeira was unpopulated when it was discovered in 1419 by Portuguese explorer Joao Goncalves Zarco. He had anchored at Porto Santo in a storm, and his sailors seeing Madeira under a cloud on the horizon concluded this was the end of the earth. Zarco returned with a less nervous crew the following year and reached a mountainous densely forested island he named Ilha da Madeira, Island of Wood. He was so taken with the place he stayed on as governor and colonizer. Except for some British occupation during the Napoleonic wars and Spanish sword-rattling, Portugal prevailed.


(http://www.goodmoney.com/house.GIF)

Like so many volcanic islands, Madeira is speculated to be the top of the mythical Atlantis. Only 36 miles long and 14 miles wide, its mountains rise from 16,500 feet below sea level to 6100 feet above, and 90% of the island is 600 feet or more. The volcanoes are long dormant, but the mild climate keeps the rocky escarpment tooth-sharp. There are waterfalls in the north; the world's second highest sea cliff in the south; and a green facade of rare trees everywhere. This type of primitive forest (the "laurisilva") covered all Europe in the tertiary era only to be decimated by advancing glaciers that never reached this far south. Madeira is the same latitude as Casablanca, a scant 400 miles east.

There are no beaches except on Porto Santo which has five miles of white sand. On Madeira seaside swimming pools circulate seawater, and swimmers move out directly into the ocean. Windsurfing, water-skiing, surfing, snorkeling and scuba diving are increasingly popular. Espada, the black deepwater swordfish, is on every menu, and fishing charters are available through the hotels or at the port.

Incidentally, the finest aquarium in Europe built on the Lisbon waterfront for Expo 98 is a permanent fixture on the mainland. Consider adding on a few days to see it and to visit the Algarve. This southern coast of Portugal not only has great golf, it is 70 percent nature reserve, Natural Park, and is a vital point in the wetlands network connecting Europe and Africa. The Algarve was recently awarded the Grand Prix at the Swiss Travel Meeting in Geneva for its active promotion of environment protection.

IF YOU GO: Casual is the rule on Madeira. The exception is Reid's Palace Hotel, Funchal, where the dining rooms require coat and tie, and afternoon tea on the terrace has been a dress-up event since the 1800s. Evenings and trips into the mountains require sweaters.

Getting There: Direct flights from the United States, Canada, London and European capitals.

Getting Around: Rental cars; public buses. Bicycling on flat Porto Santo. Roads are much improved in the last several years, but the local drivers are wild.

http://www.goodmoney.com/madeira.htm



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:04:50 pm
(http://www.atlantissource.com/images/teide.jpg)



Atlantis - above the waves
traditions, theories, evidence and facts



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Evidence from the floor of the ocean

In a 1954 issue of Geological Society of America, Bulletin, Bruce Heezen and others reported on a seamount - an underwater mountain - that has been named Atlantis by geologists and is in the Atlantic Ocean. It has been found to have been an island about 12,000 years ago - exactly the time specified by Plato! This abstract is given:
The Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor seamounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to 37°N. 32°W. southeast to Great Sea mount at 30°N. 28°W. The Atlantis Sea mount, briefly explored 1947 and 1948, was found by echo sounding and submarine photography to have a fairly flat bedrock summit area at about 180 fathoms covered in some cases by current-rippled sand. Its slopes are covered with sand or ooze symmetrically rippled at 400 fathoms and marked by slump features in 570 fathoms. A small piece of volcanic agglomerate was dredged from 400 fathoms on the north slope. About a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area. One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years ±900 (J.L. Kulp). The state of lithification of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under subaerial [i.e. above water, on land surface] conditions and that the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12,000 years. (Heezen, Bruce C., et al, "Flat-Topped Atlantis, Cruiser, And Great Meteor Sea Mounts" in Geological Society of America, Bulletin, 65:1261, 1954 (Protogonos issue 9))

In later studies, evidence was found for the remnants of a "sunken block of continent" in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An articlein New Scientist 1975 summarizes the result. (Anonymous, New Scientist,66:540, 1975)

Although they make no such fanciful claim from their results as to have discovered the mythical mid-Atlantic landmass, an international group of oceanographers has now convincingly confirmed preliminary findings that a sunken block of continent lies in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes from analysing dredge samples taken along the line of the Vema offset fault, a long east-west fracture zone lying between Africa and South America close to latitude 11øN.

The article describes the first report of "shallow-water limestone fragments" from the Vema Fracture in the Atlantic:

Four years ago two University of Miami workers, J. Honnorez and E. Bonatti, first reported the recovery of shallow-water limestone fragments from the Vema fracture zone. This limestone contained minerals indicative of a nearby granitic source unlikely to occur on the ocean floor. Neither water currents, nor more esoteric transport systems, could explain the presence of these rocks so far from the modern boundaries of the continents. The two researchers believed that, instead, the granitic grains must have been deposited close to their source.

Then the recent researchers are noted:

Now, with C. Emiliani of Miami, Paul Bronniman of the University of Geneva, M.A. Furrer of Esso Production Research, Begles, and A.A. Meyerhof, a consulting geologist from Tulsa, USA, they have carried out a more searching analysis of the dredge samples (Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 26, p.8)

Finally he notes the evidence for activity in less than 30 meters ofwater, and even some evidence for activity in soil.

The Limestones include traces of shallow-water fossils - foraminifera, green algae, bits of gastropods, and crab coprolites - implying formation in water, in one instance, less than 30 m deep. Furthermore, the limestones have been recrystallized from a high to low-magnesium form of calcite. Oxygen and carbon-isotope ratios prove conclusively that this process must have taken place subaerially [on land surface] "through the action of meteoric water enriched in light carbon while passing through a soil zone ..." A pitted limestone sample bears evidence of tidal action. Some 50 km east of the dredge site along the Vema fracture the team also recovered a thick-shelled, shallow-water, bivalve fossil from a depth of over 2000 m.

The coprolites in the sample indicate a Mesozoic age for the limestone which may well be the sedimentary capping on a residual continental block left behind as the [??] spread out into an ocean. The granitic minerals could thus have come from the bordering continents while the ocean was still in its infancy. Vertical movements made by the block appear to have raised it above sea level at some period during its history.

(from Unknown Earth: A Handbook of Geological Enigmas by William R. Corliss.)


http://www.atlantissource.com/home/forgotten_article.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:11:02 pm
From Atalante:

Some early geographers said that the Atlantic Ocean was bigger than our modern definition. By their definition the syrtes of Africa belong in the Atlantic ocean.
They presumed that the 3 continents (Europe/Asia/Afric) were separated by "tongues" of the surrounding ocean, which reached into the land.

1. Before I demonstrate data which may affect the location of Atlantis, let me cite these geographers' viewpoint about how Africa and Asia are separated.

quote from: http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol6No1/HV6N1Takahashi.html
70 The Gulf of Aden is in fact the entrance to the Red Sea, but is often counted by Islamic geographers as a separate branch of the Indian Ocean. The usual name in Arabic is al-khalîj al-barbarî derived from Barbarâ/Berbera on its shore, but the name bahr al-barbar is found in Bîrûnî, Tafhîm 122.9 (pers. 168.1 daryâ-i barbar)

2. Likewize, the classical Greek geographers had consistently (and erroneously) claimed that the Caspian Sea was connected to the surrounding ocean on the east side of the Caspian. Thus the Caspian sea separates Asia from Europe.

3. Now once these two geographical
"postulates" are understood, it becomes obvious that those early geographers must have recognized a third "tongue" of the surrounding ocean, to separate the continents of Europe and Asia from each other.

I believe the work of "pseudo-Aristotle" was connected to this outlook. Here is an interesting quotation about the matter, written by one of history's greatest geographers. Please note that the western Mediteranean sea is called "this well-known sea which is called the OCEAN by many."

quote from: http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol6No1/HV6N1Takahashi.html
citing Bar Hebraes:
But., Min. V.i.1: That sea which surrounds the whole earth like a single island is called the Atlantic. In the west a narrow mouth is open to it at the Stelae (STLS), or Pillars, of Hercules. Through it it enters the Habitable World as if into some harbour and forms this well-known sea which is called the Oceanus [sic] by many.17 ... V.i.2.: In the south of this sea there are two gulfs and in them are two islands called the Greater and Lesser Syrtes. In its northern (side) are three gulfs, the Sardinian (SDRWNYQWN cod. F, SRDWNYQWN ceteri), the Galatian (G’L’TYQWN cod. F) and the Adriatic (’DRY’NWS cod. F), and after these a slanting gulf called the Sicilian (SYQYLYQWN).

the corresponding quote from pseudo-Aristotle is:
Cf. De mundo syr. 139.16-21, 139.23-140.1 [< gr. 393a 16-21, 23-28]: That sea which is outside the whole Habitable World is called the Atlantic and the Oceanus. It also flows around us here. Because on the west a narrow mouth (fumo aliso) is open to it from the inside – at what are called the Stelae (STLWS) of Hercules – its flow proceeds into this sea by us, as if into some harbour, and thus widens out little by little here, spreading out until it embraces (lobek < perilambánô) the large gulfs which adjoin each other. … It is said first to widen out to the right after proceeding from the Stelae (ST’LS) of Hercules and is divided into two gulfs and passes the islands called the Syrtes, one of which they call the Greater Syrtes and the other the Lesser Syrtes. On the other, northern, side it does not widen out immediately in the same way, but makes there too three gulfs (cubbin),18 that called the Sardinian (SWRDWNYQWN), that called the Galatian (G’LTYQWN) and the Great Adriatic (’DRY’S rabbo). After these is another slanting gulf which is called the Sicilian (SQYLYQWN).




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:25:34 pm
(http://www.lostcity.washington.edu/graphics/index/hom-image-upleft.jpg)

http://www.lostcity.washington.edu/

Scientists Seeking Secrets Of "Lost City"

The remarkable hydrothermal vent structures serendipitously discovered last December in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, including a massive 18-story vent taller than any seen before, are formed in a very different way than ocean-floor vents studied since the 1970s, according to findings published July 12 in the journal Nature. The circulation of fluids that forms this new class of hydrothermal vents apparently is driven by heat generated when seawater reacts with mantle rocks, not by volcanic heat.


No one has previously seen a field quite like this but Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington oceanographer and lead author of the Nature paper, says this kind of vent may be common on the seafloor. If so, scientists may have underestimated the extent of hydrothermal venting, the amount of heat and chemicals pouring into the world's oceans and the abundance of life that thrives in such conditions.

"Rarely does something like this come along that drives home how much we still have to learn about our own planet," Kelley says. "We need to shed our biases in some sense about what we think we already know."

The Lost City Field, named partly because it sits on the seafloor mountain Atlantis Massif, was discovered Dec. 4. The expedition was funded by the National Science Foundation and led by Scripps Institution of Oceanography's Donna Blackman, UW's Kelley and Duke University's Jeffrey Karson. Blackman and Karson are among the paper's co-authors.

Lost City is like other hydrothermal vent systems where seawater circulates beneath the seafloor gaining heat and chemicals until there is enough heat for the fluids to rise buoyantly and vent back into the ocean. As the warm fluids mix with cold seawater the chemicals separate from the vent fluids and solidify, sometimes piling up into impressive mounds, spires and chimneys of minerals.

It was immediately clear, however, that the Lost City Field was unlike other hydrothermal vent systems in a number of ways. First, there was the height attained by some of the structures – the mighty 180-foot vent scientists named Poseidon compares to previously studied vents that mostly reach 80 feet or less. The new vents are nearly 100 percent carbonate, the same material as limestone in caves, and range in color from a beautiful clean white to cream or gray, in contrast to black smoker vents that are a darkly mottled mix of sulfide minerals. And perhaps the Lost City's most distinctive feature is that it is sitting on 1.5 million-year-old crust formed from mantle material.

"We did not realize that hydrothermal activity of this sort could be taking place on seafloor generated millions of years ago," says Margaret Leinen, assistant director for geosciences at the National Science Foundation.

Most previously known vents form along the youngest part of spreading "centers," areas where tectonic forces pull apart the seafloor and magma flows up into the space sometimes during volcanic eruption. Heat from the underlying magma chambers drives hydrothermal vent circulation and generates water temperatures as high as 400°C.

Lost City is in a part of the ocean where magma chambers are present only rarely and volcanic eruptions happen perhaps every 5,000 to 20,000 years, compared to fast-spreading centers where eruptions may occur every five to 10 years. In the area of the Lost City, spreading and faulting during the last 1 million to 1.5 million years has stripped the mountain down to the underlying mantle rocks. Hydrothermal circulation appears to be driven by seawater that permeates into the deeply fractured surface and transforms olivine in the mantle rocks into a new mineral, serpentine, in a process called serpentinization.

The heat generated during serpentinization appears to drive hydrothermal circulation at the Lost City, Kelley says. The process produces low temperature fluids of 40 to 75°C that are rich in methane and hydrogen.

Papers published in the early 1990s noted that methane-hydrogen signatures were common over slow- or ultra-slow-spreading centers like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, where Lost City is. That led scientists to believe that venting was occurring, but there had been no example like the Lost City Field before now, Kelley says.

If the Nature paper is right about the forces driving hydrothermal circulation at the Lost City Field, Kelley says it's easy to imagine there could be many more such systems. Within a mere 50-mile radius of the Atlantis Massif are three similar mountains subject to the same fracturing, the same intrusion of seawater and perhaps the same reactions with mantle material. And those four represent only a tiny fraction of the potential sites along the 6,200 mile Mid-Atlantic Ridge, as well as the Indian ridges and the Arctic Ridge, also considered slow- and ultraslow-spreading centers.

Although large animals that typify other vent environments appear to be rare at Lost City, microbial life seems to thrive there. The microbial samples collected at Lost City show a community that is diverse and so dense in places that magnification reveals rocks so covered with microorganisms that one can't see the minerals, Kelley says. "These environments may host a significant and important amount of microbial life, if these systems prove to be common and operate for long periods on old ocean crust."

Other authors of the paper are Gretchen Fruh-Green of the Institute for Mineralogy and Petrology in Zurich; Pete Rivizzigno of Duke; David Butterfield, Marvin Lilley, Eric Olson, Mathew Schrenk, Kevin Roe and Geoff Lebon, all from the University of Washington or affiliated with the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration; and the shipboard party on the expedition last December.





Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:27:14 pm
Hydrothermal Vent Systems Could Have Persisted Millions Of Years, Incubated Life
Science Daily — The staying power of seafloor hydrothermal vent systems like the bizarre Lost City vent field is one reason they also may have been incubators of Earth's earliest life, scientists report in a paper published in the July 25 issue of Science.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discovered just 2½ years ago during a National Science Foundation-funded expedition in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, Lost City has the tallest vents ever seen the 18-story behemoth at the site dwarfs most vents elsewhere by at least 100 feet. Water is circulated through the vent field by heat from serpentinization, a chemical reaction between seawater and the mantle rock on which Lost City sits, rather than by heat from volcanic activity or magma, responsible for driving hydrothermal venting at sites scientists have been studying since the early 1970s.

If hydrothermal venting can occur without volcanism, it greatly increases the places on the seafloor of early Earth where microbial life could have started. It also means explorers may have more places than previously thought to look for microbial life in the universe.

Although the Lost City vent field is a youthful 30,000 years old, Lost City-type systems might be able to persist hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of years, says lead author Gretchen Früh-Green of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology and co-authors from the University of Washington, Duke University and National Atmospheric and Oceanic Administration. One can imagine how such stable, long-lived systems pumping out heat, minerals and organic compounds for millennia might improve the chances for life to spark and to be sustained until it could take hold, say these scientists.

"It's difficult to know if life might have started as a result of one or both kinds of venting," says Deborah Kelley, University of Washington oceanographer, "but chances are good that these systems were involved in sustaining life on and within the seafloor very early in Earth's history."

As far as longevity and stability, it's possible that black-smoker systems might last as long as 100,000 years but it's unlikely, Kelley says. That's because black-smoker systems typically form where new seafloor is being created, a process that even if a volcanic eruption doesn't bury a hydrothermal vent field in lava will eventually shove the seafloor bearing the vents away from the source of volcanic heat needed to power them.

Lost City is already nine miles from the nearest volcanically active spreading center and sits on 1.5 million-year-old crust. Seawater permeating deeply into the fractured surface of the mantle rocks transforms olivine into a new mineral, serpentine. The heat generated during this process is not as great as that found at volcanically active sites where fluids can reach 700 F but it is enough to power hydrothermal circulation and produce vent fluids of 105 to 170 F.

Tectonics, the movement of the Earth's great plates, contributes to the fracturing of the mantle rock. But a big reason this kind of system is so self-sustaining, the Science report says, is that fracturing also happens because rocks undergoing serpentinization increase in volume 20 percent to 40 percent. Kelley likens it to water seeping into tiny cracks in roads, then freezing and expanding to cause ruts and frost heaves in the pavement.

Scientists think many Lost City-type systems were possible on early Earth because so much of the mantle had yet to be skinned over with crust, putting it in contact with seawater and making serpentinization possible, Kelley says.

Lost City is the only vent field of its kind known today but scientists say more could exist. Within a 60-mile radius of Lost City are three similar mountains and there are other, potential sites along thousands of miles of ridges in the mid-Atlantic, Indian Ocean and Arctic.

Beyond Earth, peridotite the mantle material that reacts with seawater during serpentinization is abundant on all the terrestrial planets in our solar system, says Jeff Karson, Duke University professor. "Peridotite can be exposed by tectonic processes or by major cratering events. This means that Lost City-type venting could occur, or has occurred, in oceans on other planets, and such venting would have the potential to support microbial systems."

Lost City-type systems also may be conducive to life because their fluids are high pH and rich with organic compounds compared to black-smoker systems.

Black smokers get their name because it can appear as if smoke is billowing from the vents. What's actually being seen are dark minerals precipitating when scalding hot vent waters meet the icy-cold ocean depths. Water venting at Lost City, in comparison, is hot enough to shimmer but not "smoke." Because of the different chemistry, black-smoker vents are a darkly mottled mix of sulfide minerals whereas the Lost City vents are nearly 100 percent carbonate, the same material as limestone in caves, and range in colors from white to cream to gray.

The field, named Lost City in part because it sits on a seafloor mountain named the Atlantis Massif, was discovered Dec. 4, 2000, when scientists weren't even looking for hydrothermal vents.

"The discovery of the Lost City vent field is a wonderful example of serendipity in science studying one problem and discovering something totally new and unexpected," says David Epp, program director in NSF's marine geology and geophysics program. "The detailed work is just beginning and should change the way people think about vent systems."

This spring, the NSF funded the first major scientific expedition to Lost City since its discovery. Led by Kelley and Karson, the expedition is documented at: http://www.lostcity.washington.edu/

Other Science co-authors are the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology 's Stefano Bernasconi, University of Washington's Kristin Ludwig and Giora Proskurowski, and National Atmospheric and Oceanic Administration 's David Butterfield.

Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by University Of Washington.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/07/030725080845.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:40:19 pm

Hydrothermal vent system unlike any seen before found in Atlantic

 
(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/flange-hr.jpg)

(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/flange-lr.jpg)

  A ledge or flange made of carbonate juts out from the side of a 160-foot chimney in the Lost City hydrothermal vent field. The chimney and flange are made of carbonate minerals and silica dissolved in 160 F fluids that flow out of the seafloor and then precipitate when the fluids hit the icy cold seawater. The flange is 1 meter across. (Photo credit: University of Washington)
 
 
A new hydrothermal vent field, which scientists have dubbed "The Lost City," was discovered Dec. 4 on an undersea mountain in the Atlantic Ocean. The unexpected discovery occurred at 30 degrees North on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during an oceanographic cruise aboard the research vessel Atlantis.

A team of scientists led by Deborah Kelley from the University of Washington, Donna Blackman from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and Jeff Karson of Duke University conducted the National Science Foundation-supported expedition.

"We thought that we had seen the entire spectrum of hydrothermal activity on the seafloor, but this major discovery reminds us that the ocean still has much to reveal, "says Margaret Leinen, NSF assistant director for geosciences.

"These structures, which tower 180 feet above the seafloor, are the largest hydrothermal chimneys of their kind ever observed," said Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington geologist and co-principal investigator on the cruise.

Most previously studied vents are less than 80 feet high, the tallest being a 135-foot vent dubbed Godzilla, on the seafloor off the Washington state coast. It toppled in half a few years ago.

"If this vent field was on land, it would be a national park," Duke University structural geologist Jeff Karson said of the new find. Karson, a second co-principal investigator, joined Kelley in the submersible Alvin on a dive to the site on Dec. 5.

Perhaps most surprising is that the venting structures are composed of carbonate minerals and silica, in contrast to most other mid-ocean ridge hot spring deposits, which are formed by iron and sulfur-based minerals. The low-temperature hydrothermal fluids may have unusual chemistries because they emanate from mantle rocks.

(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/chimney-hr.jpg)

(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/chimney-lr.jpg)

The top of this 18-story-tall chimney in the Lost City hydrothermal vent field is nearly 30 feet in diameter and is actively venting fluids. (Photo credit: University of Washington)
 
 Nothing like this submarine hydrothermal field has ever been previously observed, say the scientists. These events are unique, they believe, because they rest on one-million-year-old ocean crust formed tens of kilometers beneath the seafloor, and because of their incredible size. Dense macrofaunal communities such as clams, shrimps, mussels, and tube worms, which typify most other mid-ocean ridge hydrothermal environments, appear to be absent in this field. The Lost City Field was discovered unexpectedly while studying geological and hydrothermal processes that built an unusually tall, 12,000-foot-mountain at this site. In this area, deep mantle rocks called serpentinized peridotites, and rocks crystallized in subseafloor magma chambers, have been uplifted several miles from beneath the seafloor along large faults that expose them at the surface of the mountain.
"As so often happens, we were pursuing one set of questions concerning building of the mountain and we stumbled onto a very important new discovery," said Donna Blackman, a geophysicist from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and chief scientist of the expedition. She added that "the venting towers are very spectacular and, although they bring up a whole new set of questions, we will learn about the evolution of the mountain itself as we study the vents carefully in the future."

 

 Observations using the submersible Alvin and deep-towed vehicle Argo, operated by Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, show that the field hosts numerous active and inactive hydrothermal vents. The steep-sided, 180-foot-tall deposits are composed of multiple spires that reach 30 feet in width at their tops. They are commonly capped by white, feathery hydrothermal precipitates. The tops and sides of the massive edifices are awash in fluids that reach temperatures up to 160 degrees.
From the sides of the structures, abundant arrays of delicate, white flanges emerge. Similar to cave deposits, complex, intergrown stalagmites rise several meters above the flange roofs.

Underneath the flanges, trapped pools of warm fluid support dense mats of microbial communities that wave within the rising fluids. Downslope, hundreds of overlapping flanges form hydrothermal deposits reminiscent of hot spring deposits in Yellowstone National Park. During the Alvin dive, expedition leader Patrick Hickey collected rocks, fluids, and biological samples for shore-based analyses.

"By studying such environments, we may learn about ancient hydrothermal systems and the life that they support," suggested Kelley.


(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/pinnacles-lr.jpg)

(http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/images/pinnacles-lr.jpg)

Cone-shaped pinnacles, about 20 feet can be seen, rise from a 160-foot-tall edifice in the Lost City hydrothermal vent field. White-colored chimneys are actively venting fluids in contrast to the beige-colored edifices that are no longer venting. (Photo credit: University of Washington)
 


Kelley, Blackman and Karson are at sea until Saturday, Dec. 16, and return to their home institutions from there.

The three principal scientists may be contacted aboard ship until Sat. Dec.16. (Note: e-mail is only sent and received three times a day.)
Donna Blackman
Debbie Kelley
Jeff Karson

Expedition web site:
http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/mar

 www.washington.edu/.../12-00archive/k121200.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:46:09 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Atlantic_Ocean.png)

The Atlantic Ocean is the second-largest ocean, covering approximately one-fifth of the Earth's surface. The ocean's name, derived from Greek mythology, means the "Sea of Atlas." The oldest known mention of this name is contained in The Histories of Herodotus around 450 BC (I 202).

This ocean occupies an elongated, S-shaped basin extending in a north-south direction and is divided into the North Atlantic and South Atlantic by Equatorial Counter Currents at about 8° North latitude. Bounded by the Americas on the west and Europe and Africa on the east, the Atlantic is a component of the all-encompassing World Ocean, linked to the Pacific Ocean by the Arctic Ocean on the north and the Drake Passage on the south. A man-made connection between the Atlantic and Pacific is provided by the Panama Canal. On the east, the dividing line between the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean is the 20° East meridian, running south from Cape Agulhas to Antarctica. The Atlantic is separated from the Arctic by a line from Greenland to northwestern Iceland and then from northeastern Iceland to the southernmost tip of Spitsbergen and then to North Cape in northern Norway.[1]

While some authorities show the Atlantic Ocean extending south to Antarctica, others show it as bounded to the south by the Southern Ocean.

Covering approximately 20% of Earth's surface, the Atlantic Ocean is second only to the Pacific in size. With its adjacent seas it occupies an area of about 106,400,000 square kilometers (41,100,000 sq mi); without them, it has an area of 82,400,000 square kilometers (31,800,000 sq mi). The land area that drains into the Atlantic is four times that of either the Pacific or Indian oceans. The volume of the Atlantic Ocean with its adjacent seas is 354,700,000 cubic kilometers (85,100,000 cu mi) and without them 323,600,000 cubic kilometers (77,640,000 cu mi).

The average depths of the Atlantic, with its adjacent seas, is 3,338 meters (10,932 ft); without them it is 3,926 meters (12,881 ft). The greatest depth, 8,605 meters (28,232 ft), is in the Puerto Rico Trench. The width of the Atlantic varies from 2,848 kilometers (1,770 mi) between Brazil and Liberia to about 4,830 kilometers (3,000 mi) between the United States and northern Africa.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:47:10 pm
Ocean bottom

The principal feature of the bottom bathymetry (terrain) of the Atlantic Ocean is a submarine mountain range called the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It extends from Iceland in the north to approximately 58° South latitude, reaching a maximum width of about 1,600 kilometers (1,000 mi). A great rift valley also extends along the ridge over most of its length. The depth of water over the ridge is less than 2,700 m (8,900 ft) in most places, and several mountain peaks rise above the water and form islands. The South Atlantic Ocean has an additional submarine ridge, the Walvis Ridge.

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge separates the Atlantic Ocean into two large troughs with depths averaging between 3,700 and 5,500 metres (12,000 and 18,000 ft). Transverse ridges running between the continents and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge divide the ocean floor into numerous basins. Some of the larger basins are the Guiana, North American, Cape Verde, and Canaries basins in the North Atlantic. The largest South Atlantic basins are the Angola, Cape, Argentina, and Brazil basins.

The deep ocean floor is thought to be fairly flat, although numerous seamounts and some guyots exist. Several deeps or trenches are also found on the ocean floor. The Puerto Rico Trench, in the North Atlantic, is the deepest. The Laurentian Abyss is found off the eastern coast of Canada. In the South Atlantic, the South Sandwich Trench reaches a depth of 8,428 metres (27,651 ft). A third major trench, the Romanche Trench, is located near the equator and reaches a depth of about 7,454 meters (24,455 ft). The shelves along the margins of the continents constitute about 11% of the bottom topography. Several deep channels cut across the continental rise.

Ocean sediments are composed of terrigenous, pelagic, and authigenic material. Terrigenous deposits consist of sand, mud, and rock particles formed by erosion, weathering, and volcanic activity on land and then washed to sea. These materials are found mostly on the continental shelves and are thickest off the mouths of large rivers or off desert coasts. Pelagic deposits, which contain the remains of organisms that sink to the ocean floor, include red clays and Globigerina, pteropod, and siliceous oozes. Covering most of the ocean floor and ranging in thickness from 60 to 3,300 meters (200 to 11,000 ft), they are thickest in the convergence belts and in the zones of upwelling. Authigenic deposits consist of such materials as manganese nodules. They occur where sedimentation proceeds slowly or where currents sort the deposits.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:48:29 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Ireland-AtlanticOceanwithAranIsland.jpg)

The Atlantic Ocean as seen from the west coast of Ireland on a fair day

Water characteristics
 
The Atlantic Ocean as seen from the west coast of Ireland on a fair dayOn average, the Atlantic is the saltiest of the world's major oceans; the salinity of the surface waters in the open ocean ranges from 33 to 37 parts per thousand (3.3 - 3.7%) by mass and varies with latitude and season. Surface salinity values are influenced by evaporation, precipitation, river inflow, and melting of sea ice. Although the minimum salinity values are found just north of the equator (because of heavy tropical rainfall), in general the lowest values are in the high latitudes and along coasts where large rivers flow into the ocean. Maximum salinity values occur at about 25° north and south of the equator, in subtropical regions with low rainfall and high evaporation.

Surface water temperatures, which vary with latitude, current systems, and season and reflect the latitudinal distribution of solar energy, range from less than −2 °C to 29 °C (28 °F to 84 °F). Maximum temperatures occur north of the equator, and minimum values are found in the polar regions. In the middle latitudes, the area of maximum temperature variations, values may vary by 7 °C to 8 °C (13°F to 14°F).

The Atlantic Ocean consists of four major water masses. The North and South Atlantic central waters constitute the surface waters. The sub-Antarctic intermediate water extends to depths of 1,000 meters (3,300 ft). The North Atlantic Deep Water reaches depths of as much as 4,000 meters (13,200 ft). The Antarctic Bottom Water occupies ocean basins at depths greater than 4,000 meters (13,200 ft).

Within the North Atlantic, ocean currents isolate a large elongated body of water known as the Sargasso Sea, in which the salinity is noticeably higher than average. The Sargasso Sea contains large amounts of seaweed and is also the spawning ground for both the European eel and the American eel.

Because of the Coriolis effect, water in the North Atlantic circulates in a clockwise direction, whereas water circulation in the South Atlantic is counter-clockwise. The south tides in the Atlantic Ocean are semi-diurnal; that is, two high tides occur during each 24 lunar hours. The tides are a general wave that moves from south to north. In latitudes above 40° North some east-west oscillation occurs.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:49:43 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Atlantic_hurricane_graphic.gif)

Waves in the trade winds in the Atlantic Ocean—areas of converging winds that move along the same track as the prevailing wind—create instabilities in the atmosphere that may lead to the formation of hurricanes

Climate
 
Waves in the trade winds in the Atlantic Ocean—areas of converging winds that move along the same track as the prevailing wind—create instabilities in the atmosphere that may lead to the formation of hurricanesThe climate of the Atlantic Ocean and adjacent land areas is influenced by the temperatures of the surface waters and water currents as well as the winds blowing across the waters. Because of the ocean's great capacity for retaining heat, maritime climates are moderate and free of extreme seasonal variations. Precipitation can be approximated from coastal weather data and air temperature from the water temperatures. The oceans are the major source of the atmospheric moisture that is obtained through evaporation. Climatic zones vary with latitude; the warmest climatic zones stretch across the Atlantic north of the equator. The coldest zones are in the high latitudes, with the coldest regions corresponding to the areas covered by sea ice. Ocean currents contribute to climatic control by transporting warm and cold waters to other regions. Adjacent land areas are affected by the winds that are cooled or warmed when blowing over these currents. The Gulf Stream, for example, warms the atmosphere of the British Isles and northwestern Europe, and the cold water currents contribute to heavy fog off the coast of northeastern Canada (the Grand Banks area) and the northwestern coast of Africa. In general, winds tend to transport moisture and warm or cool air over land areas. Hurricanes develop in the southern part of the North Atlantic Ocean.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 03:54:21 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Pangea_animation_03.gif)

Pangaea separation animation, which formed the Atlantic Ocean known today.

History
 
Pangaea separation animation, which formed the Atlantic Ocean known today.
The Atlantic Ocean appears to be the second youngest of the world's oceans, after the Southern Ocean. Evidence indicates that it did not exist prior to 180 million years ago, when the continents that formed from the breakup of the ancestral supercontinent, Pangaea, were being rafted apart by the process of seafloor spreading. The Atlantic has been extensively explored since the earliest settlements were established along its shores. The Vikings, the Portuguese, and Christopher Columbus were the most famous among its early explorers. After Columbus, European exploration rapidly accelerated, and many new trade routes were established. As a result, the Atlantic became and remains the major artery between Europe and the Americas (known as transatlantic trade). Numerous scientific explorations have been undertaken, including those by the German Meteor expedition, Columbia University's Lamont Geological Observatory, and the United States Navy Hydrographic Office.

Some important events in relation to the Atlantic:

•   In 1858, the first transatlantic telegraph cable was laid by Cyrus Field.
•   On April 14, 1912 the RMS Titanic sank after hitting an iceberg with loss of 1,593 people.
•   In 1919, the American NC-4 became the first airplane to cross the Atlantic (though it made a couple of landings on islands along the way).
•   Later in 1919, a British airplane piloted by Alcock and Brown made the first non-stop transatlantic flight, from Newfoundland to Ireland.
•   In 1921, the British were the first to cross the North Atlantic in an airship.
•   In 1922, the Portuguese were the first to cross the South Atlantic in an airship.
•   The first transatlantic telephone call was made on January 7, 1927.
•   In 1927, Charles Lindbergh made the first solo non-stop transatlantic flight in an airplane (between New York City and Paris).
•   In 1952, Ann Davison was the first woman to single-handedly sail the Atlantic Ocean.
•   In 1998, Ben Lecomte was the first person to swim across the Atlantic Ocean, stopping for only one week in the Azores.
•   After rowing for 81 days and 4,767 kilometers (2,962 mi), on December 3, 1999, Tori Murden became the first woman to cross the Atlantic Ocean by rowboat alone when she reached Guadeloupe from the Canary Islands.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 04:00:28 pm
Economy

The ocean has also contributed significantly to the development and economy of the countries around it. Besides its major transatlantic transportation and communication routes, the Atlantic offers abundant petroleum deposits in the sedimentary rocks of the continental shelves and the world's richest fishing resources, especially in the waters covering the shelves. The major species of fish caught are cod, haddock, hake, herring, and mackerel. The most productive areas include the Grand Banks of Newfoundland, the shelf area off Nova Scotia, Georges Bank off Cape Cod, the Bahama Banks, the waters around Iceland, the Irish Sea, the Dogger Bank of the North Sea, and the Falkland Banks. Eel, lobster, and whales have also been taken in great quantities. All these factors, taken together, tremendously enhance the Atlantic's great commercial value. Because of the threats to the ocean environment presented by oil spills, marine debris, and the incineration of toxic wastes at sea, various international treaties exist to reduce some forms of pollution.


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Atlantic_bathymetry.jpg/547px-Atlantic_bathymetry.jpg)

Atlantic bathymetry


Terrain
 
 
The surface is usually covered with sea ice in the Labrador Sea, Denmark Strait, and Baltic Sea from October to June. There is a clockwise warm-water gyre in the northern Atlantic, and a counter-clockwise warm-water gyre in the southern Atlantic. The ocean floor is dominated by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, a rugged north-south centerline for the entire Atlantic basin, first discovered by the Challenger Expedition. This was formed by the vulcanism that also formed the floor of the Atlantic, and the islands rising from it.

The Atlantic Ocean has irregular coasts indented by numerous bays, gulfs, and seas. These include the Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of St. Lawrence, Mediterranean Sea, Black Sea, English Channel , North Sea, Labrador Sea, Baltic Sea, Gulf of Maine, Bay of Fundy and Norwegian-Greenland Sea. Islands in the Atlantic Ocean include Faroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, Rockall, Great Britain, Ireland, Fernando de Noronha, the Azores, the Madeira Islands, the Canaries, the Cape Verde Islands, Sao Tome e Principe, Newfoundland, Bermuda, the West Indies, Ascension, St. Helena, Trindade, Martin Vaz, Tristan da Cunha, the Falkland Islands, and South Georgia Island.

Elevation extremes
•   lowest point: Milwaukee Deep in the Puerto Rico Trench −8,605 metres (28,232 ft)
•   highest point: sea level, 0 metres

Natural resources


Petroleum and gas fields, fish, marine mammals (seals and whales), sand and gravel aggregates, placer deposits, polymetallic nodules, precious stones
Natural hazards
Icebergs are common in the Davis Strait, Denmark Strait, and the northwestern Atlantic Ocean from February to August and have been spotted as far south as Bermuda and the Madeira Islands. Ships are subject to superstructure icing in extreme northern Atlantic from October to May. Persistent fog can be a maritime hazard from May to September, as can hurricanes north of the equator (May to December).
The Bermuda Triangle is popularly believed to be the site of numerous aviation and shipping incidents because of unexplained and supposedly mysterious causes, but coast guard records do not support this belief.
Current environmental issues
Endangered marine species include the manatee, seals, sea lions, turtles, and whales. Drift net fishing is killing dolphins, albatrosses and other seabirds (petrels, auks), hastening the decline of fish stocks and contributing to international disputes. There is municipal sludge pollution off the eastern United States, southern Brazil, and eastern Argentina; oil pollution in the Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, Lake Maracaibo, Mediterranean Sea, and North Sea; and industrial waste and municipal sewage pollution in the Baltic Sea, North Sea, and Mediterranean Sea.
On June 7, 2006, Florida's wildlife commission voted to take the manatee off of the state's endangered species list. Some environmentalists worry that this could erode safeguards for the popular sea creature.
Marine Pollution
Marine pollution is a generic term for the harmful entry into the ocean of chemicals or particles. The biggest culprit are rivers that empty into the Ocean, and with it the many chemicals used as fertilizers in agriculture as well as waste from livestock and humans. The excess of oxygen depleting chemicals in the water leads to hypoxia and the creation of a dead zone (ecology).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean


List of ports and harbours of the Atlantic Ocean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_and_harbours_of_the_Atlantic_Ocean


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 04:09:03 pm
Azores

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/LocationAzores.png)

The Azores [ˈeɪ̯zɔɹz] (Portuguese: Açores, pron. IPA [ɐ'soɾɨʃ] or [ɐ'soɾʃ]) are a Portuguese archipelago in the Atlantic Ocean, about 1,500 km from Lisbon and about 3,900 km from the east coast of North America. The westernmost island (Flores) actually lies on the North American plate and is only 1,925 km from St. John's in the Canadian province of Newfoundland.

The nine major Azorean Islands and the eight small Formigas extend for more than 600 km, and lie in a northwest-southeast direction. The vast extension of the islands defines an immense exclusive economic zone of 1.1 million km². The westernmost point of this area is 3,380 km from the North American continent. All of the islands have volcanic origins, though Santa Maria also has some reef contribution. The mountain of Pico on Pico Island, at 2,351 m in altitude, is the highest in all of Portugal. The Azores are actually the tops of some of the tallest mountains on the planet, as measured from their base at the bottom of the ocean. The archipelago forms the Autonomous Region of Azores, one of the two Autonomous regions of Portugal.

Though it is commonly said that the archipelago is named after the goshawk (Açor in Portuguese), because it was supposed to be a common bird at the time of the discovery, the bird actually never existed on the islands. Some historians indicate the archaic Portuguese word "azures" (the plural of blue) because of the color of the islands when seen from afar. Most, however, insist that the name is derived from birds, pointing to a local subspecies of the buzzard (Buteo buteo), as the animal the first explorers erroneously identified as goshawks.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 04:18:07 pm
History

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Azores_old_map.jpg/300px-Azores_old_map.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Azores_old_map.jpg/800px-Azores_old_map.jpg)

Old map of the Azores Islands.

The islands were known in the fourteenth century and can be seen incompletely, for example, in the Atlas Catalan. In 1427, one of the captains sailing for Henry the Navigator rediscovered the Azores, possibly Gonçalo Velho, but this is not certain. The colonization of the then-unoccupied islands started in 1439 with people mainly from the continental provinces of Algarve and Alentejo; in the following centuries settlers from other European countries arrived, most notably from Northern France and Flanders. In 1583, Philip II of Spain as king of Portugal, sent his combined Iberian fleet to clear the French traders from the Azores, decisively hanging his prisoners-of-war from the yardarms and contributing to the "Black Legend". The Azores were the second-to-last part of the Portuguese empire to resist Philip's reign over Portugal (Macau being the last), Azores was returned to Portuguese control with the end of the Iberian Union, not by the military efforts, as these were already in Restoration War efforts in the mainland, but by the people attacking a well-fortified Castillian guarnition.
The 1820 civil war in Portugal had strong repercussions in the Azores. In 1829, in Vila da Praia, the liberals won over the absolutists, making Terceira Island the main headquarters of the new Portuguese regime and also where the Council of Regency (Conselho de Regência) of Mary II of Portugal was established.
Beginning in 1868, Portugal issued its stamps overprinted with "AÇORES" for use in the islands. Between 1892 and 1906, it also issued separate stamps for the three administrative districts of the time.
From 1836 to 1976, the archipelago was divided into three districts, quite equivalent (except in area) to those in the Portuguese mainland. The division was arbitrary, and didn’t follow the natural island groups, rather reflecting the location of each district capital on the three main cities (neither of each on the western group).
•   Angra consisted of Terceira, São Jorge, and Graciosa, with the capital at Angra do Heroísmo on Terceira.
•   Horta consisted of Pico, Faial, Flores, and Corvo, with the capital at Horta on Faial.
•   Ponta Delgada consisted of São Miguel and Santa Maria, with the capital at Ponta Delgada on São Miguel.
During the Second World War, in 1943, the Portuguese dictator Salazar leased bases in the Azores to the British. This represented a change in policy. Previously the Portuguese government only allowed German U-boats and navy ships to refuel there.[1]. This was a key turning point in the Battle of the Atlantic, allowing the Allies to provide aerial coverage in the middle of the Atlantic. This helped them to hunt U-boats and protect convoys.
In 1944, American forces constructed a small and short-lived air base on the island of Santa Maria. In 1945, a new base was founded on the island of Terceira and is currently known as Lajes Field. It was founded in an area called Lajes, a broad, flat sea terrace that had been a farm. Lajes Field is a plateau rising out of the sea on the northeast corner of the island. This air force base is a joint American and Portuguese venture. Lajes Field has, and continues to support US and Portuguese military operations. During the Cold War, the US Navy P-3 Orion anti-submarine squadrons patrolled the North Alantic for Soviet submarines and surface spy vessels. Since its inception, Lajes Field has been used for refuelling aircraft bound for Europe, and more recently, the Middle East. The US Army operates a small fleet of military ships in the harbor of Praia da Vitória, three kilometers southeast of Lajes Field. The airfield also has a small commercial terminal handling scheduled and chartered passenger flights from other islands in the archipelago, Europe, and North America.
In 1976, the Azores became the Autonomous Region of the Azores (Região Autónoma dos Açores), one of the Autonomous regions of Portugal, and the Azorean districts were suppressed.

Politics

Since becoming a Portuguese Autonomous Region, the executive section of the local authority has been located in Ponta Delgada, the legislative in Horta and the judicial in Angra do Heroísmo. The President of the Regional Government is Carlos César.
Azorean politics are dominated by the two largest Portuguese political parties - PSD and PS, the latter holding a majority in the Regional Legislative Assembly. The CDS/PP is also represented in the local parliament, in coalition with the PSD. Even though the PS dominates the administrative scene, the PSD is usually more popular in city and town council elections.

Current affairs

In 2003, the Azores saw international attention when U.S. President George W. Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and then Spanish Prime Minister José María Aznar and then Portuguese Prime Minister José Manuel Durão Barroso held a summit there days before the commencement of the Iraq War.[2]
Municipalities
 
 
Pasture fields
 

The Azores are divided into nineteen municipalities (concelhos); each municipality is further divided into parishes (freguesias). The Azores have a total of 156 parishes.
There are also five cities: Ponta Delgada and Ribeira Grande on São Miguel Island; Angra do Heroísmo and Praia da Vitória on Terceira, and Horta on Faial.
Angra
•   Terceira
o   Angra do Heroísmo and Vila da Praia da Vitória
•   Graciosa
o   Santa Cruz da Graciosa
•   São Jorge
o   Calheta and Velas
Horta
•   Pico
o   Lajes do Pico, Madalena and São Roque do Pico
•   Faial
o   Horta
•   Flores
o   Lajes das Flores and Santa Cruz das Flores
•   Corvo
o   Corvo
Ponta Delgada
•   Santa Maria
o   Vila do Porto
•   São Miguel
o   Lagoa, Nordeste, Ponta Delgada, Povoação, Ribeira Grande and Vila Franca do Campo


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 04:22:01 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Pasture_fields_in_The_Azores.jpg/800px-Pasture_fields_in_The_Azores.jpg)


Pasture fields

Geography

Island Area (km²)

São Miguel Island 759
Pico Island 446
Terceira Island 403
São Jorge Island 246
Faial Island 173
Flores Island 143
Santa Maria Island 97
Graciosa Island 62
Corvo Island 17
The archipelago is spread out in the area of the parallel that passes through Lisbon (39º 43' / 39º 55' N), giving it a moderate climate, with mild annual oscillation. The average annual rainfall increases from east to west and ranges from 700 to 1600 mm. The Azores high is named after the islands.

The archipelago lie in the Palearctic ecozone, forming a unique biome among the world's Temperate broadleaf and mixed forests, with many endemic species of plants.

The nine islands have a total area of 2,355 km². Their individual areas vary between 759 km² (São Miguel) and 17 km² (Corvo). Three islands (São Miguel, Pico and Terceira) are bigger in size than Malta (composed of three different islands), São Miguel Island alone being twice as big.

The nine islands are divided into three groups:

The Eastern Group (Grupo Oriental) of São Miguel, Santa Maria and Formigas Islets
The Central Group (Grupo Central) of Terceira, Graciosa, São Jorge, Pico and Faial
The Western Group (Grupo Ocidental) of Flores and Corvo.
The islands were formed during the Tertiary period, in the Alpine phase. Their volcanic cones and craters reveal the volcanic origin of most islands. Pico, a volcano that stands 2,351 meters high on the island of the same name, has the highest altitude in the Azores. The last volcano to erupt was the Capelinhos Volcano (Vulcão dos Capelinhos) in 1957, in western part of Faial island, increasing the size of that island. Santa Maria Island is the oldest Azorean island presenting several limestone and red clay extensions.

On 31 December 2002, the Azores' population was 238,767 at a density of 106 persons/km²


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 31, 2007, 04:24:48 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Pico.jpg/800px-Pico.jpg)
Pico viewed from Faial

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 09:18:09 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Localizaci%C3%B3n_de_Canarias.png)

Canary Islands

The Canary Islands IPA/kəˈnæɹɪ ˈaɪləndz/ (Spanish Islas Canarias /ˈis.las kaˈnarjas/) (28° 06'N, 15° 24'W) are an archipelago of the Kingdom of Spain consisting of seven islands of volcanic origin in the Atlantic Ocean. They are located off the north-western coast of Africa (Morocco and the Western Sahara). They form an autonomous community of Spain.

The Canary Islands have been known since antiquity. Some accounts estimate the islands to be 30 million years old.[1] They had an indigenous population called the Guanches whose origin is still the subject of discussion among historians and linguists.

The islands were presumably visited by the Phoenicians, the Greeks and the Carthaginians. According to Pliny the Elder, the 1st century AD Roman author and philosopher, when visited by the Carthaginians under Hanno the Navigator the archipelago was found to be uninhabited, but that they saw ruins of great buildings.[2] This may suggest that the islands were inhabited by other peoples prior to the Guanches.

In the Middle Ages the islands were visited by Arab and European sailors.




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 09:21:07 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Canary-map.jpg)

Map of the Canary Islands

Population origins

The origins of the Canarian indigenous people, known as Guanches, are still the subject of debate. Numerous theories have been put forward achieving varying degrees of acceptance.

Since this is a group of islands, the first settlers must have arrived by sea, and archaeology suggests that, when they did so, they imported, not only domestic animals such as goats, sheep, pigs and dogs and cereals such as wheat, barley and lentils, but also a set of well defined socio-cultural practices that seem to have originated and been in use for a long period of time elsewhere.

Although the maritime currents surrounding the Canaries flow in a south-westerly and westerly direction (thus leading boats away into the Atlantic Ocean), there is enough evidence to prove that various Mediterranean civilisations in antiquity did know of the islands' existence and established contact with them (mainly Romans, Greeks and Phoenicians). The indigenous population of the Canaries, therefore, did not develop in complete isolation.

Today, archaeological and ethnographic studies have led most scholars to accept the view that the pre-colonial population of the Canaries were descendants of North African Berber tribes who lived in the Atlas region and started arriving in the Canaries by sea from about 1000 BCE. Two main problems remain to be solved in this field, though. First, there is no archaeological or historical evidence to prove that either the Berber tribes of the Atlas Mountains or the Canarian pre-colonial population had any knowledge or made any use whatsoever of navigation techniques. This is particularly problematic considering that only the peak of Tenerife is visible from the African coast on the very clearest of days and the currents around the islands tend to lead the boats southwest and west, past the archipelago and into the Atlantic Ocean.

The second problem concerns absolute dating. Despite the fact that most scholars would now agree that the earliest reliable dates can be traced back to about 1000 BCE, different absolute dating technologies such as 14C and thermoluminescence have provided the most variable results. Poor methodological practices in the past and an insufficient number of absolute datings carried out throughout the archipelago are mostly responsible for this sort of inconsistency and lack of information.

There still exists, however, a relatively large variety of theories regarding the origin of pre-colonial Canarians. For instance, a group of scholars (mainly from the University of La Laguna, in Tenerife) are presently defending the theory that the origins of the Canarian populations are Punic-Phoenician. Professor D. Juan Álvarez Delgado, on the other hand, argued that the Canaries were uninhabited until 100 BCE, when they were gradually discovered by Greek and Roman sailors. In the second half of the first century BCE, King Juba II of Numidia abandoned North African prisoners on the islands, who eventually became the prehispanic Canarians. The fact that the first inhabitants were abandoned prisoners thus explains, according to Álvarez Delgado, their lack of navigational acumen.

Although denied by certain scholars (cf. Abreu Galindo 1977: 297), specialisation of labour and a hierarchy system seem to have governed the social structures of the Canarian precolonial populations. In Tenerife the highest figure was known as the Mencey, although, by the time the first Spanish incursions in the Canaries took place, Tenerife had already been divided into nine menceyatos (i.e. separate regions of the island controlled by its own Mencey), namely Anaga, Tegueste, Tacoronte, Taoro, Icod, Daute, Adeje, Abona and Güimar. Despite the fact that all Menceys were independent and absolute owners of their territory within the island, it was the Mencey of Taoro who acted, according to the chronicles, as primus inter pares. Gran Canaria, on the other hand, appears to have been divided into two guanartematos (i.e. functionally, politically and structurally differentiated regions): Telde and Gáldar, each governed by a Guanarteme.

Studies of precolonial Canarian society indentify both agricultural and pastoral ways of life in the Canaries (cf. Diego Cuscoy 1963: 44; González Antón & Tejera Gaspar 1990: 78).

At the time of European engagement, the Canary Islands were inhabited by a variety of indigenous communities. The pre-colonial population of the Canaries is generically referred to as Guanches, although, strictly speaking, Guanches were originally the inhabitants of Tenerife. According to the chronicles, the inhabitants of Fuerteventura and Lanzarote were referred to as Maxos, Gran Canaria was inhabited by the Canarii, El Hierro by the Bimbaches, La Palma by the Auaritas and La Gomera by the Gomeros. Despite the fact that inter-insular relations among the indigenous communities cannot be conclusively denied, evidence does seem to suggest that the interaction was relatively low and each island was populated by its own distinct socio-cultural groups.

Little information has survived regarding the religious and cosmological beliefs of the Guanches. Indigenous Canarian people often performed their religious practices in places marked by particular striking geographical features or types of vegetation, and certain sites containing architectonic remains and cave paintings have been identified as sanctuaries.


Links in ancient times

The peak of Teide on Tenerife can be seen on clear days from the African coast. It is possible that the islands were among those visited by the Carthaginian captain Hanno the Navigator in his voyage of exploration along the African coast. It has also been suggested that the islands were visited by the Phoenicians seeking the precious red dye extracted from the orchilla, if the Canaries are considered to be The Purple Isles, alternatively identified with the Hesperides. Although there is no evidence that Romans actually settled, in 1964 a Roman amphora was discovered in waters off Lanzarote. Discoveries made in the 1990s have demonstrated in more secure detail that the Romans traded with the indigenous inhabitants. Excavations of a settlement at El Bebedero on Lanzarote, made by a team under Pablo Atoche Peña of the Universidad de Las Palmas de Gran Canaria and Juan Ángel Paz Peralta of the Universidad de Zaragoza, yielded about a hundred Roman potsherds, nine pieces of metal, and one piece of glass at the site, in strata dated between the first and fourth centuries A.D. Analysis of the clay indicated origins in Campania, Hispania Baetica and the province of Africa (modern Tunisia).

Legendary islands in the Western Ocean that recur in European traditions are often linked with the Canaries, even the legendary voyage of Saint Brendan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Canary_Islands#_note-1


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 09:22:49 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Canary_Islands_map_by_William_Dampier_1699_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_15675.jpg/409px-Canary_Islands_map_by_William_Dampier_1699_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_15675.jpg)

Maps of the Canary Islands drawn by William Dampier during his voyage to New Holland in 1699


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 09:25:42 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/La_Palma-gravures.jpg/800px-La_Palma-gravures.jpg)

Guanche rock carvings in La Palma

Guanches

Guanches (also: Guanchis or Guanchos) were the first known inhabitants of the Canary Islands. This people, whose origin is uncertain, were still at a Stone Age level when the Europeans first arrived in the Middle Ages. Their culture as such has since disappeared, although some traces can still be found.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 07, 2007, 09:29:03 pm
What do you suppose those concentric lines mean?  They seem to be found all over the world.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 09:58:14 pm
Historical background

The native term Guanchinet means "man of Tenerife" (from Guan = person and Chinet = Tenerife). It was corrupted, according to Juan Núñez de la Peña, by Spaniards into "Guanchos". Strictly speaking, the Guanches were the primitive inhabitants of Tenerife, where the population seems to have lived in relative isolation up to the time of the Spanish conquest, around the 14th century (though Genoans, Portuguese, and Castillians had occasionally landed there since the second half of the 8th century).

The name came to be applied to the indigenous populations of all the seven Canary islands. The Guanches, now extinct as a distinct people, appear, from the study of skulls and bones discovered, to exhibit similarities to Cro-Magnon populations of the Mesolithic era, and links to the Berbers, who have long inhabited northern Africa from Egypt to the Atlantic, have been suggested.

Pliny the Elder, deriving his knowledge from the accounts of Juba, king of Mauretania, states that when visited by the Carthaginians under Hanno the Navigator the archipelago was found by them to be uninhabited, but that they saw ruins of great buildings. This may suggest that the Guanches were not the first inhabitants, if this account is accurate. From the absence of any trace of Islam among the peoples found in the archipelago by the Spaniards, it would seem that this extreme westerly migration of Berbers took place either before or as a result of the conquest of northern Africa by the Arabs. Many of the Guanches fell in resisting the Spaniards, while others died from infectious diseases that accompanied the invaders, diseases to which the Guanches, because of their long isolation, had little immunity. Many were sold as slaves, and many conformed to the Roman Catholic faith and married Spaniards. This pattern of events would be repeated in the Spanish subjugation of the Arawaks and other peoples of the New World only a century later.

What remains of their language, Guanche—a few expressions, vocabulary words and the proper names of ancient chieftains still borne by certain families—exhibits positive similarities with the Berber languages. The first reliable account of Guanche language was provided by Genovese explorer Nicoloso da Recco in 1341, with a translation of numbers used by the islanders.

Petroglyphs attributed to various Mediterranean and northern African civilizations have been found on some of the islands. In 1752, Domingo Vandewalle, a military governor of Las Palmas, attempted to investigate them, and Aquilino Padron, a priest at Las Palmas, catalogued inscriptions at El Julan, La Candía and La Caleta on El Hierro. In 1878 Dr. R. Verneau discovered rock carvings in the ravines of Las Balos that bear similarities with Libyan or Numidic writing from the time of Roman occupation or earlier. In other locations, Libyco-Berber script has been identified. However, according to chroniclers, the Guanches did not possess a system of writing at the time of conquest.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 10:02:16 pm
What do you suppose those concentric lines mean?  They seem to be found all over the world.


Good question, Tom!  I don't buy into the mystical explanation, nor the idea that all the people of the world got the idea for the spiral all at the same time.

I think it is a "mark" of some kind.  Whether it is supposed to be the capital city of Atlantis, I don't know, but many of the spirals from New Zealand look the same as the ones from La Palma.  I think it is the mark of a race of ancient sea-faring people.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 10:09:29 pm
Political System

The political and social institutions of the Guanches varied. In some islands hereditary autocracy prevailed; in others the government was elective. In Tenerife all the land belonged to the chiefs who leased it to their subjects. In Gran Canaria, suicide was regarded as honourable, and on a chief inheriting, one of his subjects willingly honoured the occasion by throwing himself over a precipice. In some islands, polyandry was practised; in others the natives were monogamous. But everywhere the women appear to have been respected, an insult offered any woman by an armed man being a capital offence.

The island of Tenerife was divided into nine small kingdoms (menceyatos), each ruled by a king or Mencey. The Mencey was the ultimate ruler of the kingdom, and at times, meetings were held between the various kings. When the Spanish invaded the Canary Islands, the southern kingdoms joined the Spanish invaders on the promise of the richer lands of the north. The Spanish would never reward them with their promise and betrayed them.


Clothes and Weapons

Guanches wore garments made from goat skins or woven from plant fibers, which have been found in the tombs of Gran Canaria. They had a taste for ornaments, necklaces of wood, bone and shells, worked in different designs. Beads of baked earth, cylindrical and of all shapes, with smooth or polished surfaces, mostly colored black and red, were fairly common. In his research, Dr. René Verneau suggested that the objects the Spanish referred to as pintaderas, baked clay seal-shaped objects, were used as vessels for painting the body in various colours. They manufactured rough pottery, mostly without decorations, or ornamented by making fingernail indentations.

Guanche weapons shared similarity with those of north African peoples, adapted to the insular environment (using wood, obsidian and stone as primary materials), with later influences from medieval European weaponry. Basic armaments in several of the islands included javelins of 1 to 2 m in length (known as Banot on Tenerife); round, polished stones; spears; maces (common in Gran Canaria and Tenerife, and known as Magado and Sunta, respectively); and shields (small in Tenerife and human-sized in Gran Canaria, where they were known as Tarja, made of Drago wood and painted with geometric shapes). In Gran Canaria, after the arrival of the Europeans, Guanche nobility were known to wield large wooden swords (larger than the European two-handed type) called Magido, which were said to be very effective against both infantrymen and cavalry. Weaponry made of wood was hardened with fire. These armaments were commonly complemented with a stone or obsidian knife known as a Tabona.

Dwellings were situated in natural or artificial caves in the mountains. In areas where cave dwellings were not feasible, they built small round houses and, according to the Spaniards, practiced crude fortification.

Funerals

In La Palma the old people were at their own wish left to die alone. After bidding their family farewell they were carried to the sepulchral cave, nothing but a bowl of milk being left them. The Guanches embalmed their dead; many mummies have been found in an extreme state of desiccation, each weighing not more than 6 or 7 pounds. Two almost inaccessible caves in a vertical rock by the shore 3 miles from Santa Cruz (Tenerife) are said still to contain bones. The process of embalming seems to have varied. In Tenerife and Gran Canaria the corpse was simply wrapped up in goat and sheep skins, while in other islands a resinous substance was used to preserve the body, which was then placed in a cave difficult of access, or buried under a tumulus. The work of embalming was reserved for a special class, women for female corpses, men for male. Embalming seems not to have been universal, and bodies were often simply hidden in caves or buried.


Religion

Little is known of the religion of the Guanches. They appear to have had a distinct religious system. There was a general belief in a supreme being, called Acoran, in Gran Canaria, Achihuran in Tenerife, Eraoranhan in Hierro, and Abora in La Palma. The women of Hierro worshipped a goddess called Moneiba. According to tradition the male and female gods lived in mountains whence they descended to hear the prayers of the people. In other islands the natives venerated the sun, moon, earth and stars. A belief in an evil spirit was general. The demon of Tenerife was called Guayota and lived in the peak of Teide volcano, which was the hell called Echeyde.

In times of drought the Guanches drove their flocks to consecrated grounds, where the lambs were separated from their mothers in the belief that their plaintive bleatings would melt the heart of the Great Spirit. During the religious feasts all war and even personal quarrels were stayed.


Origins

Genetic evidence shows that northern African peoples (most likely descendants of the Capsian culture) made a significant contribution to the aboriginal population of the Canaries following desiccation of the Sahara at some point after 6000 BC. Linguistic evidence supports common origins between aboriginal Canary Islanders and the Berbers of northern Africa, particularly when comparing number systems.

Early Spanish accounts differed in their descriptions of native Canary Islanders. Chroniclers described one group as tall, blonde and blue-eyed, another as being of medium height and dark complexion, and a third group was said to be of smaller stature. The Guanche population of Tenerife were, according to accounts from the 15th century, tall, tan-skinned, and powerfully built, with some having blond hair and blue eyes.

Early observations about the appearance of the Guanche peoples led to considerable speculation about their origins. Past theories speculated that the Guanches inherited their fair traits from the Celts, Germanic tribes or some other group originating on the European continent, but no evidence has been found linking these groups and peoples of the Canary Islands. To be sure, similar fair traits can be found among the indigenous Berber populations in neighboring North Africa in the few cases where they have not interbred with the more recently arrived Arab majority.

The diversity of physical traits observed may indicate that the Canaries were populated over time by more than one single source. The islands were visited by a number of peoples within recorded history. The Numidians, Phoenicians, and Carthaginians knew of the islands and made frequent visits. The Romans occupied northern Africa and visited the Canaries between the 1st and 4th centuries AD, judging from Roman artifacts found on the island of Lanzarote. The East Germanic Vandals invaded northern Africa in the 5th and 6th centuries AD, and their reach could have theoretically extended to the Canaries. However, each of these cultures had reached a higher level of technology than the Neolithic culture that was encountered at the time of conquest.

The Conquest
 
The surrender of the Guanche kings to Alonso Fernández de LugoThe conquest of the islands began in 1402, with the expedition of Juan de Bethencourt and Gadifer de la Salle to the island of Lanzarote. Gadifer would conquer Lanzarote and Fuerteventura with ease since many of the aborigenes, faced with issues of starvation and poor agriculture, would surrender to Spanish Reign.

The other five islands fought back. El Hierro and the Bimbache population were the next to fall, then La Gomera, La Palma, Gran Canaria and 100 years later, Tenerife.

Tenerife was most successful against the Spanish invaders. In the First Battle of Acentejo, called La Matanza or "The Slaughter," poorly armed Guanches with only stones ambushed the Spanish in a valley and killed many.

One in five survived, including the leader of the expedition, Alonso Fernandez de Lugo. Lugo would return later to the island after many defeats and with the alliance of the southern part of the island. The northern Menceyatos or provinces would fall at the Second Battle of Acentejo with the defeat of Bencomo, Mencey of Taoro - what is now the Orotava Valley - in 1496.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanches


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 07, 2007, 10:19:59 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Hacha_grande_from_papagayo_pano.jpg/800px-Hacha_grande_from_papagayo_pano.jpg)

Hacha Grande, a mountain in the south of Lanzarote, viewed from the road to the Playa de Papagayo.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on April 20, 2007, 06:43:58 am
Several scientists consider the disappearance of Atlantis to be the result of a comet or asteroid that hit the earth. Provided that such an object came from the universe, these assumptions would also be able to explain the global appearance of Flood legends and legends concerning the end of the world at the very beginning of mankind. But which comet was it? And did anything like that happen at the outset of mankind? Let us first read the Atlantis dialogue to learn what happened:
 
Quote
(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/komet.jpg)
“(...) But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.(...)“

What is described here? It sounds as if a comet had hit the earth. It is common knowledge today that stormfloods and earthquakes result from extraterrestrial impacts.


Near Puerto Rico, two parallel clefts exist on the sea bed both of which are about 7 000 metres deep. In the area of South Carolina (USA) including neighbouring states the ground is scarred to such an extent that the only reasonable explanation is a cosmic impact. Further evidence is provided by aerial photographs taken in the early 1930s. The pictures showed several thousand hollows stretching as far as to the Atlantic Ocean.

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/komet_atlantis.jpg)

picture: According to the German researcher Otto Muck, the arrow indicates the direction from which the comet came. As a result, Atlantis was doomed to sink.

Because of these facts the German scientist Otto Muck who died in 1965 and held about 200 patents elaborated his theory that Atlantis was located across the mid-Atlantic Ridge and sank right there after the impact of an asteroid. Muck assumed that the extraterrestrial object (surrounded by several smaller projectiles) coming from a northwestern direction hit the “Carolina Bays“, then crashed into the Atlantic Ocean and thereby left the deep-sea crater.

After the impact, he assumed, tremendous underwater volcanic eruptions have occured exactly where the tectonic plates of the mid-Atlantic Ridge where joined together. When the plates became separated, ocean water came into touch with magma. The resulting explosions caused the island of “Atlantis“ to explode and the remnants sank in the clefts and hollows just created.

But what extraterrestrial object would be needed to sink such a vast landmass like Atlantis? Muck started calculating with the help of static samples collected from about 10 000 hollows with an average diameter of 500 metres. He came to th econclusion that the object in question must have been 10 kilometres wide and its impact must have been as powerful as thirty thousand tons of nitroglycerine or 3 000 medium level H-bombs. Muck thought that this was the reason for the creation of the furrows on the ground of the Atlantic Ocean, the Caribbean area and the Gulf of Mexico. Moreover, he held the view that the impact also caused the shifting of the poles. That was the beginning of a new geological age and the seasons became clearly separated from each other.

Muck even found out the exact date of the impact, that is June 5, 8498 BC. At that day, the sun, the moon and the earth were in conjunction with each other. Muck believed that this constellation drew the comet into the earth orbit. Furthermore, some researchers think that this was the day the Mayan people started their calendar calculations.
 
 

With his book “The Secret of Atlantis“ Muck caused a lot of sensation although many of his theses have not been proven so far. For example, no traces of a catastrophic change of the tectonic plates have been found on the Atlantic Ridge. In addition, the Carolina Bays have not proven home of any melted quartzes which would invite the inference of an extraterrestrial impact. Nevertheless, Muck probably found the key to the doom of Atlantis – comets or asteroids. More and more researchers agree on the assumption that the Carolina Bays have not been affected by a direct comet impact on the earth but that a comet exploded above the area and the resulting blasts left behind the bays. This thesis was supported by the unresolved Tunguska explosion in Sibiria on June 30, 1908.

This cosmic impact would also explain the multiple Flood legends in Central America and on the Antilles. Accordingly, we have a new candidate for our search for Atlantis.
 
 http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/doom/atlantis_comets.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:38:22 am
UNDERWATER RUINS IN THE ATLANTIC

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A word of caution: their is a pretty robust Atlantis community out there who circulate there own stories of submerged cities and issue there own press releases. Those releases can be picked up as fact and are endlessly repeated. It's nice to have objective sources when possible.
In some cases, structures found near current land masses could have been submerged due to purely local floods, but even in those cases, the problem remains; who built them? Certainly not the “primitive” peoples that the current time line claims were living in these locales.

For instance, in the Americas a short time ago men were not thought to have been here before 5,000 years ago. To date, scientists fight to try not to have the date pushed out beyond 15,000 years. Those people were not thought to have been responsible for these advanced structures.

On the other hand, the presumed megalithic structures off the coast of Cuba are 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) below the ocean. Other megalithic structures are being located miles from current shorelines. Here are a couple of shorts about even more anomalous finds deep in the ocean.

“In 1966, an oceanographic research expedition led by Dr. Robert J. Menzies of Duke University aboard the vessel Anton Brunn photographed what appeared to be carved rock columns under 6,000 feet of ocean in the Milne-Edward Deep, a depression that reaches a depth of 19,000 feet.

A cautious Dr. Menzies admitted that the discovery of what may be the ruins of an ancient city could be “one of the most exciting discoveries of this century, insofar as ruins go.

Some of the columns are half buried in mud while others stand upright. Many of them appear to have a kind of writing on them.””


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.s8int.com/water6.html]http://www.s8int.com/water6.html
...Source: Atlantis Rising by Brad Steiger


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:39:26 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In 1973 a U.S. deep sea submersible craft photographed Roman Columns that seemed part of a temple structure at the bottom of one of the deepest parts of the Atlantic Ocean. Click and drag photo to on the right to resize.Photo: Roman, Greek and Egyptian-style Columns 6000 Feet Under The Sea!

Rather than ending up in some scientific journal or being debated on a university campus, the photo was published in an obscure book about the supposed lost continent of Atlantis.

While the photo may have certainly served the purpose of the book’s author, would it not have served history and archeology even more if published and debated in those circles?"..Source Unexplained:News


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:40:57 am
RESEARCHES BY THE SOVIETS

Ancient remains in the Atlantic, in 1979

Announcement of the discovery of the sunken Amber mountain, in 1984

The discovery of a smooth marble plate in 1985.


  During the end of March in 1979, some Soviet researchers announced the success of their research in the Atlantic Ocean by saying “Plato showed us the way to the lost Atlantis”. The soviet boat of underwater researches, named “Vityaz”, anchored to the river Tagus of Portugal. Dr. Andrey Aksenov, assistant manager of the Institute of Oceanography of Soviet Academy, called reporters on the boat and announced a discovery:

"In the sea area, 900 km from the Portugal coasts, there have been found, on a sunken mountain, a plateau in strange formations. After a close examination with our scientific instruments, we discovered that in this area there are remains, probably of a sunken city. We spotted almost clearly half-demolished walls and giant stairs, even if they were covered with seaweed and other sea plants. We took many photos, by which eight of them show the huge symmetrical escalation, and they will be sent to Moscow for special elaboration...."

The Soviets of “Vityaz” told to Mr Vaskonselo, manager of the National Fishing Institute of Portugal, that they are certain they have discovered a sunken part of the lost Atlantis. Dr. Aksenov also mentioned that this discovery is only the beginning of a whole research which will be centered to this place of the Atlantic. Besides, this is the place that Plato defined the existence and disappearance of Atlantis.

The research boat “Vityaz” continued its mission by scanning the bottom of the Atlantic, westward of Madera. In this area, under the surface of the sea, it is extended the mountain Amber. It is a strange mountain in the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean and due to its shape attracts all those Atlantologists, who study Atlantis by Plato scripts.

In 1984 the Soviets of “Vityaz” finished their long researches and gave the information that the mountain Amber, found beneath water, has once been a large island above the surface of the sea.

Unfortunately, they did not announce the details and evidence on which they had been based...

In September 1985, there has been announced by the soviet and foreign tabloids that the Russians pulled out of 4500 meters in the Atlantic, a strange piece of marble. The research was carried out by the oceanographers of the soviet boat “Academic Boris Petrov”.

This discovery has troubled a lot the research group of the boat.

From the very early studies on this object, it has been found out that it was a smooth plate of marble colored from both sides in white-yellowish. Its shape proves that it had been smoothed by a man. They estimated that this object exists in the ocean for many thousand years. Leon Hitrov, scientist of the Soviet Academy of Sciences and chief of the mission pointed out:

“This finding is of great importance. I will personally take on its analysis in the Laboratory of Analytic Chemistry and Geochemistry of the Soviet Academy of Sciences. This scientific test will show if the plate was a part of a structure of an unknown civilization or if according to all evidence, it comes from the legendary and powerful nation of the Atlantians”.

Unfortunately, the Soviet Academy of Sciences, from all we know, has not announced something officially. There are rumors that the “secret” researches continue in the Atlantic Ocean, not only by Russians but by Americans.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.atlantida.gr/engSovietResearch.htm#research


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:42:16 am
Here are some of the reports of underwater ruins gathered throughout the years of all the various ruins reported to be at the bottom of the Atlantic. Of course, many are of a dubious nature. I'll list them all now, get into what we actually know of them later:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
City on the Bottom of the Atlantic Ocean off Spain

Dr. Maxine Asher's Expedition in 1973

UPI Report


Pyramid explored by Dr. Ray Brown on the sea floor off the Bahamas in 1970. Brown was accompanied by 4 divers who also found roads, domes, rectangular buildings, unidentified metallic instruments, and a statue holding a "mysterious" crystal containing miniature pyramids. The metal devices and crystals were taken to Florida for analysis at a university there. What was discovered was that the crystal amplified energy that passed through it.

It is made in a method unknown to the scientists who analyzed it. It was found in a mysteriously lit up chamber inside the underwater pyramid with some kind of ray gun like instrument pointed at it. Kirlian photographs, which record impressions beyond our limited range of vision, showed an eye inside the crystal not visible to the naked eye.

What technology could build a long blacktop paved road for hundreds of miles that was still in good condition over 10,000 years later! This road was found underwater off the East Coast by the deep diving submarine Aluminaut and contained magnesium oxide.

In 1977, a mysterious discovery was made on the floor of the Atlantic concerning an unknown technology. A 650-foot pyramid was mysteriously lit up, with sparkling white water surrounding it that turned deep green, a shocking contrast to the dark black waters at that depth. The discovery was photographed by Arl Marahall's expedition off Cay Sal.

Dr. William Bell's 1958 photos taken on the bottom of the Atlantic showed a six-foot spire protruding from a couple of circular gear-like bases with peculiar light emanations from the bottom of the shaft. Were these the remnants of the Eternal Flame spoken of by the ancients, powered by an inter-dimensional cosmic energy taken out of the atmosphere by a form of crystal conductor at the apex of pyramids or towers?

Pyramids larger than any building in the world made in our modern times have been found on the bottom the Atlantic Ocean and in China, and one in Egypt that our own technology has failed to match.

These Pyramids have cement that our scientists admit is superior to what we use today. The writings of the ancients describe pyramids as Time Capsules containing the history and technology of the Empire of the Sun and latter day Atlantis.

A huge pyramid, in 10,000 feet of Atlantic water, was reported to have been found with a pulsating crystal on top of it, by Tony Benik's expedition. The group also found an opaque crystal tablet there, and reported that when a light was beamed through it, mysterious inscriptions became visible.

More underwater pyramids were found off Central America, Yucatan, and Louisiana, where domes were found in the Straits of Florida. A marble Greek style building was found between Florida and Cuba. And what about the column that radiated energy Dr. Zink found in the Bahamas and Zink also brought up other artifacts from his dives over Atlantis, and he was interviewed by Mind International agent Steve Forsberg.

One of the most amazing finds on the bottom of the Atlantic was reported by Captain Reyes Miraga's crew on the salvage ship Talia from Spain. They video-taped miles of pillared temples, buildings, and statues and wide curving boulevards, with smaller avenues branching out from the center like spokes in a wheel, with majestic temples and pyramids. Much of this city, as well as the city found off Spain by Dr. Maxine Asher's expedition and later by Professor Akayonove's expedition (all photographed), show a startling similarity to Plato's description of Atlantis!

An urn brought to the surface by Dr. Asher's expedition.

More than 30 separate ruins have been found on the bottom of the Atlantic since 1956, and in ancient libraries, several old maps showing Atlantis and its island chain have been found. The islands are known as Aryan, Og. Poseid, and Antigua and the nation was Atlan. Garden City, or Poseid, was reportedly the capital of a continent stretching from off of North Africa and Europe to off Florida with a tropical climate on the western and southern shores, and a cool climate on the north and east.

Ruins of roads and buildings found off Bimini Island in the 1960's by the photographed and published expeditions of Dr. Mansan Valentine. Steven Forsberg, co-founder of the Lahaina Times newspaper dove into these ruins in 1982 to witness them first hand. Similar ruins were also photographed off Cay Sal in the Bahamas. The ruins are of the same construction as the oldest city ever found on land, according; to archaeologists, in Tiajuanaco, Bolivia, where a calendar was uncovered that shows the exact position of the stars and planets 27,000 years ago. This is more than 20,000 years BEFORE the oldest civilizations in school history books!

Similar underwater ruins found off Morocco and photographed 50 to 60 feet underwater.

Dr. David Zink found in 1957, off the Bahamas coast, a stylized marble head, building block cast in a mold and a construction piece drilled by a bit, as well as a stone column that he reported radiated energy. Forsberg of M.I.N.D. interviewed Dr. Zink and obtained the photographs.

A ruined harbor like complex discovered on the sea floor off Bimini Captain John Alexander.

The deep sea diving submarine Aluminaut discovered a well preserved paved road on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean make of blacktop magnesium oxide, running along the sea floor from Florida to South Carolina.

Temple pillars, buildings, statues, wide curving boulevards with smaller avenues branching out like spokes in a wheel, majestic temples and pyramids videotaped by Captain Reyes Miraga on the Spanish named salvage ship "Talia".

A huge 11 room pyramid found 10,000 feet under water in the mid Atlantic Ocean with a huge crystal top, as reported by Tony Benlk.

Several acres of white marble-like ruins found on tile ocean floor off Cuba reported by Lieceser Hemingway.

Mysterious dome structures reportedly seen in clear water by several pilots in the Straits of Florida.

Soviet expeditions to the Atlantic Ampere Seamount resulted in photographs of ruins destroyed by lava (like the Aztecs and Mayans wrote Atlan was destroyed by). This discovery was in the New York Times May 21, 1978. The photos were developed by the Academy's Petrovsky Marakuyev and reported by the deputy Director of the Soviet Academy of Science's Institute of Oceanography, Professor Aksyonove, who also reported ruins found off Cadiz, Spain in the same area as Dr., Maxine Asher's previous discovery.

1981 expedition of P. Cappellano discovered mysterious ruins with strange symbols on them on the sea floor off the Canary Islands.

1977 report of a huge pyramid found off Cay Sal in the Bahamas, photographed by Ari Marshall's expedition, about 150 feet underwater. The pyramid was about 650 feet high. Mysteriously, the surrounding water was lit by sparkling white water flowing out of the openings in the pyramid and surrounded by green water, instead of the black water everywhere else at that depth.

The foundations of a 100 by 75 foot structure photographed on the sea bottom off Andros Island.

A sunken city about 400 miles off Portugal found by Soviet expeditions led by Boris Asturua, with buildings made of extremely strong concrete and plastics. He said "the remains of streets suggests the use of monorails for transportation". He added that he brought up a statue.

Pillars found on the Atlantic floor in 1969 by Robert Fero and Michael Grumley, a chunk of which was carved from rock NOT found anywhere in that part of the world. 20. A road off the Bahamas explored by Dr. Manson Valentine.

Dimitri Rebikoff, using his underwater platform and a special collecting lens, reported ruins found encircling an underwater freshwater spring.

Marble Acropolis underwater across five acres of fluted columns raised on pillars.

Twenty researchers, including archaeologists, a marine biologist, geologist, and cartographer dove onto ruins on the sea floor off Bimini in 1975 and brought back artifacts from which they concluded that the walls and roads were made of materials not found in that part of the world.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.crystalinks.com/atlantisasher.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:43:10 am
Here is what Dr. Maxine Asher says about her discoveries:

The truth is that four cities lie underwater from Cadiz to Gibraltar, and these cities are submerged at least 120 feet and resting on the continental shelf. Using the yardarm of 10 feet for every 1000 years of recorded history, we can observe highly developed sunken cities, the remains of which are at least 9000 years old or older (see Internet Website www.atlantisresearch.com). If these remains are not Atlantis, then such evidence still requires that we acknowledge civilization's beginnings at least 5000 years before the earliest Egyptian cities.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:44:13 am
To which the Russian scientist Alexander Gorodnitsky, Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor from the Russian Institute of Oceanology also adds in a 2003 interview:

"I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:45:33 am
A small piece of volcanic agglomerate was dredged from 400 fathoms on the north slope. About a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area. One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years ±900 (J.L. Kulp). The state of lithification of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under subaerial [i.e. above water, on land surface] conditions and that the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12,000 years. (Heezen, Bruce C., et al, "Flat-Topped Atlantis, Cruiser, And Great Meteor Sea Mounts" in Geological Society of America, Bulletin, 65:1261, 1954 (Protogonos issue 9)
In later studies, evidence was found for the remnants of a "sunken block of continent" in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An articlein New Scientist 1975 summarizes the result. (Anonymous, New Scientist,66:540, 1975)

(from Unknown Earth: A Handbook of Geological Enigmas by William R. Corliss.) http://www.atlantissource.com/home/forgotten_article.htm




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:47:02 am
it is interesting to note that the famous Piri Reis map shows a large island in this location, and the geology of recent core samples, taken from the ocean floor in this area, is of continental rather than oceanic type rock:

Geological structure of the Strakhov fracture zone (equatorial segment of the Mid-Atlantic ridge)

G. B. Udintsev, A. F. Beresnev, V. M. Golod, A. V. Kol'tsova, N. A. Kurentsova, and M. V. Zakharov

Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

G. V. Agapova

Institute of Geology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

L. P. Volokitina

P. P. Shirshov Institute of Oceanology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

V. G. Udintsev

Shmidt Institute of Earth Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/AlisonJ1-p10.htm



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:48:10 am
Quote from Dr. Asher's website:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The underwater film footage which appears on the website was taken from 1993 to1995 by Spanish diver Francisco Salazar Casero. More film from the same underwater area has been taken and will be placed on the website in 2003.  In addition to this footage, Dr. Asher owns underwater film from the Bahamas believed to be Atlantis, videos of television shows she has made on Atlantis, other film taken over time in Spain,5000 color slides connected to Atlantis, 15 computer disks filled with scientific reports about Atlantis and countless other visuals.  This film repository will contribute greatly to the enormous success of any feature film on Atlantis, since it lends credibility to the Atlantis' story.  The ruins presented here are 120 feet down, lying on the continental shelf off the coast of Spain and are believed to be vestiges of the city of Atlantis. The dating is approximately 9,000 B.C.
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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:48:48 am
PICTURES OF ATLANTIC UNDERWATER RUINS:
http://www.atlantisresearch.com/film.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:50:32 am
QUOTE FROM CRITIAS, PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION OF ATLANTIS:

"The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia.This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:53:51 am
I submit that Atlantis stretched from the Mid to the east Atlantic, with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge being the mountaintops that Plato spoke of and the large rectangular plain to the east, between the Azores and Gibralter, is now submerged underwater.
I haven't even got into the Mid-Atlantic Ridge yet, but there is geological evidence that that area was above water in the time period places Atlantis, even if no cities have been discovered there.

The old saying: There is no evidence of a sunken landmass in the Atlantic.

To which I give this information by the geologist Christopher O'Brien:

   


Quote
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With a knowledge of ancient river systems, the O'Briens were able to reconstruct a land profile which revealed an Azorean landmass 'about the size and shape of Spain', with high mountain ranges rising over 3655 metres above sea-level, as well as impressive rivers that run 'in curving valley systems'.
Quote

There is the LAND MASS..!

Quote
Furthermore, they have pointed out that:
 
In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3500 square miles [9065 square kilometres], and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, as we shall see, points in common with a great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the island of Atlantis.

The conclusion drawn from these findings is that the Azores once formed part of a much greater landmass which sank beneath the waves and is now situated 'many thousands of feet' below the current sea-level.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
As mentioned earliuer, mastodon and mammoth bones have been dredged up from the sea along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, the "elephants" that Plato spoke of.

As for the ruins, both Asher and the Russians have suggested that there are ruins in the eastern Atlantic, stretching towards Gibraltar. Both the Russians and Asher have pictures (even if we still can't find the Russians...)

It would be unreasonable to suggest we'll find pristine underwater cities along the lines of Jules Verne. If it was destroyed in earthquakes and tsunsamis, then there might not be a lot left, especially after 12,000 years. The pictures I've seen of the ruins of the Ampere Seamounts are about what we might expect - dark and covered in lava and ocean silt.

Much has been made of Cadiz and other underwater cities near Spain, the coast of Morocco has similar ruins that no one speaks about. These might be Atlantis, but more likely were settlements.

The only way to reach Atlantis in the depths it might be located is in a submarine, one cannot dive there. Russian submarines have been there, and, more to the point, they keep coming back - 1974, 1979, 1984, throughout the 1990's. For all we know, American submarines have been there. too.

The list I've given of ruins doubtless has some red herrings on it, but if even one of those account is true, the pyramid in the middle of the Atlantic, for instance, it might rewrite history as we know it. Civilization began in the Mediterranean..? Not if we find evidence of it first in the Atlantic!~

The pieces are all there, in the middle of the ocean, waiting to be put together, as I've always maintained, as of this year, we are simply not digging deeply enough...



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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 02:57:57 am
Divers Find Ancient Skeleton in Mexico (AP)
  Posted Thursday, September 9, 2004, 9:00 pm
By JOHN RICE, Associated Press Writer


MEXICO CITY - Divers making dangerous probes through underwater caves near the Caribbean coast have discovered what appears to be one of oldest human skeletons in the Americas, archaeologists announced at a seminar that was ending on Friday.


The report by a team from Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History exploits a new way of investigating the past. Most coastal settlements by early Americans now lie deep beneath the sea, which during the Ice Age was hundreds of feet lower than now.

Researchers at the international "Early Man in America" seminar here also reported other ancient finds — including a California bone that is a rival for the title of the oldest in the Americas.

The discoveries fall close to the start of the time that traditional theories say a so-called Clovis culture could have moved from Asia to Alaska over a temporary land corridor that began to open about 13,500 years ago.

Many academics argue that new discoveries, especially in South America, prove the Clovis people found existing inhabitants, who may have arrived by hopscotching past the northern ice fields in small boats.

Arturo Gonzalez said his team discovered at least three skeletons in caves along the Caribbean coast of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula in 2001 and 2002. Photos showed two remarkably well preserved.

"It's something that I had been dreaming of for many years," said Gonzalez, 39, who has combined diving and research since he was a teenager. "To find a person who had walked those caves was like a treasure."

Gonzalez said the bones must date from before the time that waters gradually seeped through the caves 8,000 to 9,000 years ago as Ice Age glaciers melted and sea level rose by about 400 feet worldwide.

Tests on charcoal found beside one female skeleton would place it at least 10,000 years ago. An expert at the University of California, Riverside, dated it as 11,670 radiocarbon years old — which would translate to well over 13,000 calendar years.

If confirmed, "that would be the oldest" radio carbon date in the Americas obtained from a human bone, said archaeology textbook author Stuart Fiedel.

Fiedel, a defender of the "Clovis first" school, said the oldest estimate for the cave find still fits the Clovis time frame, though narrowly.

Larry Murphy, chief of the Submerged Resources Center for the U.S. National Park Service, said in a telephone interview that the Mexican exploration was "one of the first systematic studies of human materials associated with a submarine cave."

The discovery helps prove that humans inhabited the Yucatan at least 5,000 years before the famed Maya culture began building monuments at sites such as nearby Tulum.

Gonzalez said the skeleton did not appear to be Mayan, but with no tools yet found, almost nothing is known of those first inhabitants.

Gonzalez said cave divers had sometimes mentioned seeing skeletons and he convinced skeptical officials to finance a survey of the water holes that dot the Yucatan, a limestone shelf.

Extensive, flooded caves wind off from some of those holes. Many were above ground during the Ice Age and Gonzalez speculated people may have used them as paths down to fresh water.

Gonzalez said the oldest find was made 404 yards into a cave, more than 65 feet below sea level, during expeditions that can be extremely dangerous.
 


It took repeated trips to record the sites and excavate the bones, which then required two years of preservation.
Team co-director Carmen Rojas said the divers had 40 minutes to wind their way through the cave to the site, 20 minutes to work there and 40 minutes to swim back, followed by 20 to 60 minutes of decompression time.
"You train five years for those 20 minutes," she said.
Meanwhile, John Johnson of the University of California, Santa Barbara, said an elaborate restudy of a woman's femur found on Santa Rosa Island in California's Channel Islands established a calendar-year age of 13,200 to 13,500 years. It had been calculated at about 1,000 years less when found in 1959.
Both discoveries would be significantly older than the skeleton known Kennewick Man — 9,300-year-old paleoindian remains found by teenagers along a Washington state riverbank in 1996.
Until now, the Americas have produced only 25 bones or skeletons dated as more than 8,000 years old, said Silvia Gonzalez of John Moores University in Liverpool, England. But she told the conference that she would soon publish a paper establishing that humans occupied a site near Puebla east of Mexico City 21,000 to 28,000 years ago.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://sciencenews.orb6.com/stories/ap/20040910/mexico_first_americans.php

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=4


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 03:04:55 am
Here is the passage from "Atlantis, the Antediluvian World" that first places Atlantis specifically along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, courtesy, of course, of Ignatius Donnelly. Let's look at it first, then get into the specifics later. Donnelly, of course, is the author most credited with the modern renewal of interest in Atlantis:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Texts  Atlantis 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 46

CHAPTER. V.

THE TESTIMONY OF THE SEA.


SUPPOSE we were to find in mid-Atlantic, in front of the Mediterranean, in the neighborhood of the Azores, the remains of an immense island, sunk beneath the sea--one thousand miles in width, and two or three thousand miles long--would it not go far to confirm the statement of Plato that, "beyond the strait where you place the Pillars of Hercules, there was an island larger than Asia (Minor) and Libya combined," called Atlantis? And suppose we found that the Azores were the mountain peaks of this drowned island, and were torn and rent by tremendous volcanic convulsions; while around them, descending into the sea, were found great strata of lava; and the whole face of the sunken land was covered for thousands of miles with volcanic débris, would we not be obliged to confess that these facts furnished strong corroborative proofs of the truth of Plato's statement, that "in one day and one fatal night there came mighty earthquakes and inundations which ingulfed that mighty people? Atlantis disappeared beneath the sea; and then that sea became inaccessible on account of the quantity of mud which the ingulfed island left in its place."

And all these things recent investigation has proved conclusively. Deep-sea soundings have been made by ships of different nations; the United States ship Dolphin, the German frigate Gazelle, and the British ships Hydra, Porcupine, and Challenger have mapped out the bottom of the Atlantic, and the result is the revelation of a great elevation, reaching from a point on the coast of the British Islands southwardly to the coast of South America, at Cape Orange, thence south-eastwardly

p. 47

 


Click to view
MAP OF ATLANTIS, WITH ITS ISLANDS AND CONNECTING RIDGES, FROM DEEP-SEA SOUNDINGS.

 

p. 49

to the coast of Africa, and thence southwardly to Tristan d'Acunha. I give one map showing the profile of this elevation in the frontispiece, and another map, showing the outlines of the submerged land, on page 47. It rises about 9000 feet above the great Atlantic depths around it, and in the Azores, St. Paul's Rocks, Ascension, and Tristan d'Acunha it reaches the surface of the ocean.

Evidence that this elevation was once dry land is found in the fact that "the inequalities, the mountains and valleys of its surface, could never have been produced in accordance with any laws for the deposition of sediment, nor by submarine elevation; but, on the contrary, must have been carved by agencies acting above the water level." (Scientific American, July 28th, 1877.)


Mr. J. Starke Gardner, the eminent English geologist, is of the opinion that in the Eocene Period a great extension of land existed to the west of Cornwall. Referring to the location of the "Dolphin" and "Challenger" ridges, he asserts that "a great tract of land formerly existed where the sea now is, and that Cornwall, the Scilly and Channel Islands, Ireland and Brittany, are the remains of its highest summits." (Popular Science Review, July, 1878.)

Here, then, we have the backbone of the ancient continent which once occupied the whole of the Atlantic Ocean, and from whose washings Europe and America were constructed; the deepest parts of the ocean, 3500 fathoms deep, represent those portions which sunk first, to wit, the plains to the east and west of the central mountain range; some of the loftiest peaks of this range--the Azores, St. Paul's, Ascension, Tristan d'Acunba--are still above the ocean level; while the great body of Atlantis lies a few hundred fathoms beneath the sea. In these "connecting ridges" we see the pathway which once extended between the New World and the Old, and by means of which the plants and animals of one continent travelled to the other; and by the same avenues black men found their

p. 50

way, as we will show hereafter, from Africa to America, and red men from America to Africa.

And, as I have shown, the same great law which gradually depressed the Atlantic continent, and raised the lands east and west of it, is still at work: the coast of Greenland, which may be regarded as the northern extremity of the Atlantic continent, is still sinking "so rapidly that ancient buildings on low rock-islands are now submerged, and the Greenlander has learned by experience never to build near the water's edge," ("North Amer. of Antiq.," p. 504.) The same subsidence is going on along the shore of South Carolina and Georgia, while the north of Europe and the Atlantic coast of South America are rising rapidly. Along the latter raised beaches, 1180 miles long and from 100 to 1300 feet high, have been traced.

When these connecting ridges extended from America to Europe and Africa, they shut off the flow of the tropical waters of the ocean to the north: there was then no "Gulf Stream;" the land-locked ocean that laved the shores of Northern Europe was then intensely cold; and the result was the Glacial Period. When the barriers of Atlantis sunk sufficiently to permit the natural expansion of the heated water of the tropics to the north, the ice and snow which covered Europe gradually disappeared; the Gulf Stream flowed around Atlantis, and it still retains the circular motion first imparted to it by the presence of that island.

The officers of the Challenger found the entire ridge of Atlantis covered with volcanic deposits; these are the subsided mud which, as Plato tells us, rendered the sea impassable after the destruction of the island.

It does not follow that, at the time Atlantis was finally ingulfed, the ridges connecting it with America and Africa rose above the water-level; these may have gradually subsided into the sea, or have gone down in cataclysms such as are described in the Central American books. The Atlantis of Plato may have been confined to the "Dolphin Ridge" of our map.

p. 51

 


Click to view
ANCIENT ISLANDS BETWEEN ATLANTIS AND THE MEDITERRANIAN, FROM DEEP-SEA SOUNINGS.

 

p. 53

The United States sloop Gettysburg has also made some remarkable discoveries in a neighboring field. I quote from John James Wild (in Nature, March 1st, 1877, p. 377):

"The recently announced discovery by Commander Gorringe, of the United States sloop Gettysburg, of a bank of soundings bearing N. 85° W., and distant 130 miles from Cape St. Vincent, during the last voyage of the vessel across the Atlantic, taken in connection with previous soundings obtained in the same region of the North Atlantic, suggests the probable existence of a submarine ridge or plateau connecting the island of Madeira with the coast of Portugal, and the probable subaerial connection in prehistoric times of that island with the south-western extremity of Europe." . . . "These soundings reveal the existence of a channel of an average depth of from 2000 to 3000 fathoms, extending in a northeasterly direction from its entrance between Madeira and the Canary Islands toward Cape St. Vincent. . . . Commander Gorringe, when about 150 miles from the Strait of Gibraltar, found that the soundings decreased from 2700 fathoms to 1600 fathoms in the distance of a few miles. The subsequent soundings (five miles apart) gave 900, 500, 400, and 100 fathoms; and eventually a depth of 32 fathoms was obtained, in which the vessel anchored. The bottom was found to consist of live pink coral, and the position of the bank in lat. 36° 29' N., long. 11° 33' W."

The map on page 51 shows the position of these elevations. They must have been originally islands;--stepping-stones, as it were, between Atlantis and the coast of Europe.

Sir C. Wyville Thomson found that the specimens of the fauna of the coast of Brazil, brought up in his dredging-machine, are similar to those of the western coast of Southern Europe. This is accounted for by the connecting ridges reaching from Europe to South America.

A member of the Challenger staff, in a lecture delivered in London, soon after the termination of the expedition, gave it as his opinion that the great submarine plateau is the remains of "the lost Atlantis."

------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on May 19, 2007, 03:08:11 am
The Pre-Clovis

(http://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca//beringia/images/beringmigration.GIF)


(Picture from Scientific American Discovering Archaeology: Issue 7 January/February from the article written by Kenneth B. Tankersley)

South America First?
Skelatal studies indicate that humans crossed the Pacific and colonized South America before anyone lived in North America (Dixon, 2000). The earliest skulls lack the Mogoloid traits of people from Siberia. Intead, South American skulls are similar to Polynesians and Australians. Colonization of North America probably began in South America, spreading south to north across the Great Plains (Hofman, 2000). Regional diversity shown in South America occurred at the time the Clovis spread in North America, around 11,000 ya (Gruhn, 2000). Regional technological traditions, and adaptations to different environments in South America were diferent from the Clovis culture. This supports Pre-Clovis existence, and supports a human presence in South America at the same time as the Clovis arrival in North America. The sites excavated, such as Monte Verde in south-central Chile and and Lapa do Boquete in the interior uplands of eastern Brazil that support the Pre-Clovis theory, were subject to recent controversy. Some of the dates in question suggest occupation of South America occurred around 35,000 ya. A list of links concerning this controversy is available in the reference section.



Statistical analysis on a few available early American skulls looked at variations in cranio-facial features between early (10,000-9,000 ya) and more recent Native Americans have implicated the first colonizers to be from the Jomon of Japan or other populations from southern or central Asia (Steele, 2000).

(http://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca//beringia/images/homosapiensmigrate.GIF)

http://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca//beringia/preclovis.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on June 03, 2007, 10:45:07 pm
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/volcanoes/region18/18_map.png)

Large red triangles show volcanoes with known or inferred Holocene eruptions; small red triangles mark volcanoes with possible, but uncertain Holocene eruptions or Pleistocene volcanoes with major thermal activity. Yellow triangles distinguish volcanoes of other regions.
http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=18


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on June 15, 2007, 12:36:03 am
3.2 The Discovery of the Russians

It is suggested that Atlantis did not sink into the sea but rather was “drowned” by the ocean due to the rising waters brought about by the melting of the glacial ice. There is an implication that the present small islands where Atlantis once existed might be found on seamounts, plateaus and marine valleys surrounding it and in underwater traces of buildings or walls indicating the existence of an advance culture in the past. Russian underwater research provided certain measure of corroboration for this theory.

Russia , although far from the Atlantic Ocean maintained interest in the Atlantic and in the tradition of the lost continent of Atlantis. An expedition carried out by the Academician Petrovsky, a Russian research ship, photographed seafloor topography and archaeological relics where legendary Atlantis was supposedly located. The aim and the result of the expedition, which took place in the early part of 1974, was summarized by Barinova and appeared in Znanie-Sila (no.8, 1979).

On board the ship were geologists, biologists and an underwater photograph specialist named Ivanovich Marakuev who studied the sandbanks of Mediterranean Sea shallow waters and of the Atlantic Ocean not far from the Northwest Africa . It is the origin, structure and population of the sandbanks, the peaks of underwater mountains that are the prime scientific interest of those specialists.

(http://www.keystonecode.net/images/picsmat/research6_clip_image002.gif)

Photos taken at the Horse Archipelago (300 miles west of Gibraltar ) especially at the summit of Ampere Seamount, an underwater plateau that was thrust upwards from a depth of 10,000 ft. to 200 ft. below the sea level showed unexpected features. These pictures show masonry on an upper edge of a wall. It is about 1.5 meters high and slightly longer in length. Its width is approximately 75 centimeters (Berlitz, 1984).

The Russian discovery at the Ampere Seamount was not published for several years until worldwide publicity came in 1978 via an interview of Prof. Andrei Aksyonov, then the deputy director of the Institute of Oceanography of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Prof. Aksyonov while cautious on the Atlantean identification of the ruins believed that the objects in the picture once stood on the surface of the land . An AP release issued by Alexander Nesterenko, then the director of the Fleet Department of the Institute of Oceanography , confirmed the report that the Russian research ship has taken pictures of “ what might be ruins” but denied reports that Vityaz, another research ship was investigating the same site. (See Image 4) 
 
http://www.keystonecode.net/research8.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on June 30, 2007, 07:11:29 am
Spain and Portugal

            The Ancient Mediterranean Research Association held an important Congress in Cadiz, Spain in 1973. Maxine Asher, an archaeologist and explorer of underwater cities off the coast of Spain, organized the event as described in the March 1973 issue of Atlantis in Sykes’ article, The Cadiz Congress Of 1973.
            In 1979, two Soviet professors Dr. A.A. Aksyenov of the Oceanographic Institute and Dr. Marcello Vasconelos of the Fishery Research Institute announced a remarkable discovery made by a recent expedition on the Ampere Seamount between Madeira and the Portuguese-Spanish coast. The event was described in the May and November 1979 issues of New World Antiquity in Russian Discoveries On The Ampere Seamount by Egerton Sykes and Russian Under Sea Discoveries On Atlantis by Mr. Barinov. The research vessel Kurtachov took eight undersea photographs showing lines of brick or stone walls plus fragments of a wide flight of steps. The pictures were taken from the Horseshoe archipelago that is linked with the islands of Madeira, Porto Santo, and Dezerta, and with the Gettysburg bank. Sykes stated that the ruins could not be part of Atlantis but may be contemporary. An Atlantean site would more likely be found a mile or so south of the triangle formed by Santa Maria, St. Miguel, and the Formigas Rocks, at the eastern extremity of the Azores. He believed the finds to be part of the European African continental shelf and probably submerged about 6000 BC.

ZHIROV

            Dr. N. Th. Zhirov was a personal friend of Sykes for over twenty years. Unfortunately, Zhirov suffered from injuries received in World War II and never got out of Russia actually to see the Atlantic Ocean about which he wrote so much. Zhirov quoted early Russian classical sources; thus, he was an outstanding contributor to the study of Atlantis. He was very scientific and absolutely objective, and set a standard for Russian Atlantology. Zhirov died in December 1970 in Moscow. His obituary was published in the January 1971 issue of Atlantis.

Russians and Atlantis

            The earliest original work on Atlantis was written by A.S. Norov and published in 1854 in Russian and German. In 1917, appeared one of the most serious works by V. Bryusov, the famous Russian poet, who was engaged in the scientific study of the problem until his death. He gave all of the data available as evidence that Atlantis was the cradle of the majority of subsequent civilizations. In the 1930’s, there was considerable interest in the problem with articles in small popular science brochures and the publication of B.L. Bogaevsky, a prominent Soviet historian, who dismissed the lost continent. Almost twenty-five years followed, in which not a single work on the subject appeared in the USSR. Impetus was given in 1954 by E. Andreeva’s most popular science book about Atlantis, Easter Island, and Sannikov’s land, in which she used scientific geological and oceanographic data to demonstrate the undoubted reality of Atlantis.
            In 1963, Sykes received a Christmas card from Zhirov which had postage stamps issued in Russia commemorating two well known scientists who were also famous Atlantologists — Vladimir Obzuchev, Member of the Academy 1863-1956, and Valery Brussov, the famous poet and Atlantologist.

Some Of Zhirov’s Writings

            In 1957, Zhirov published Atlantis in Moscow, a most informative book on Atlantis with a bibliography that included no fewer than eighty references in Russian, plus sixty references in other languages. The book was only available in Russian. Zhirov was an active contributor to Atlantis journal. In the November 1957 issue of Atlantis, Sykes published A Letter From Dr. Zhirov & A Short Contents Of The Book Atlantis, and in the September 1958 issue of Atlantis, An Open Letter From Dr. Zhirov To All Atlantologists was published.
            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov, who was always looking for evidence that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was once above sea level, reported in An Indisputable Demonstration Of The Great Subsidence Of The Mid-Atlantic Ridge,that N.N. Gorskiy’s book The Secrets of the Ocean, Moscow, 1960, showed two photographs of shallow water corals grown on rock, dredged up from the Mid Atlantic ridge from a depth of twenty-five-hundred meters by the Soviet oceanographic expedition ship Mikhail Lomonossov. No Carbon-14 dates available.            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov wrote A Critical Analysis Of The Material Culture Of Plato’s Atlantis in which Plato mentions iron, gold, silver, copper, tin, orichalcum (a copper alloy?), and the antiseismic architecture of Egypt and Mesopotamia.
            On April 22, 1964, Dr. Zhirov’s The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis was read to the Leningrad House of the Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours. The event was reported in the October 1964 issue of Atlantis in an article titled Atlantological News From The USSR.
            Zhirov’s Atlantida was published in 1964 by the State Publishing House of Moscow. The preface was written by the editor, Professor Demetrius G. Panow, Doctor of Geological Sciences. The book was published in Romanian in 1967, while Sykes ranted impatiently that no copies were available in French and English. In the book, Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents, structure of mountains and submarine ridges, seismic processes, cosmological influences, tectonic origins, and the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna, and changes produced by the Gulf Stream. The accumulated evidence indicated that a land mass could have existed in the Atlantic. If this view could be proved, it would lead to a complete reversal of the views generally held concerning the migration and development of man.
            Atlantis, Atlantology: Basic Problems was published in Moscow in 1970. At the time, this book was the most extensive attempt to produce geological and geographical proof that Atlantis really existed. The great complexity of the geology of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is discussed. There was a thirty-five page bibliography of eight-hundred references. Sykes owned this book in three languages. The book was reviewed in the November 1971 issue of New World Antiquity.


http://www.seachild.net/new232932.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on June 30, 2007, 08:18:54 am



Great info, DHill.  Thank you.

Love and peace,
b


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Mark of Australia on December 30, 2007, 02:46:55 am
Hi Dhill ,

This is some of the best posting about Atlantis I have ever seen. Especially since it's about 'scientific' evidence for Atlantis in the ATLANTIC.

I want to use this thread to comment on the 'Original Atlantis in the Atlantic' thread from AR.

In keeping with the theme of a large island in the Atlantic as suggested by the O'briens. I quote Desiree from the 'original' thread:

"The problem with this rationale, Jamie, is that you act that, just because something hasn't been found in the Atlantic yet, you act like it will never be found. Well, we don't know that. There are several different possibilities for Atlantis in the Atlantic as I listed above. One of the main criteria about Atlantis is that it "sunk," so obviously it's not still above water. If we look at this scientifically, it's pretty clear that a huge land mass can't sink, so we have to be looking for something smaller, an island or city perhaps and that's what sunk. There are many candidates in the Atlantic. "   Reply 455 http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5655.450.html

I take issue with this comment because it does appear to contradict itself or be hypocritical..  Firstly Desiree basically says that you can't say Atlantis doesn't exist in the Atlantic just because it hasn't been found there yet.  I agree with that ,but then she says that a huge landmass can't sink.  Why can't a huge landmass sink ?  Just because we haven't found out it happens yet ??

  I suggest that large landmasses can sink ,landmasses about the size of O'Briens Azorean-Atlantis.

I know that Desiree's response was to Jaime's theory that Atlantis is within the Mediterranean. So, while Desiree seriously considers an Atlantic Atlantis ,I feel that she is unnecessarily limiting herself to an Atlantis that doesn't match Plato's account ,since Plato spoke of a large island.

I wanna take this moment to say that Desiree is one of the best at this forum. :)
 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Mario Dantas on January 01, 2008, 10:00:41 am

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Earth-crust-cutaway-english.svg/350px-Earth-crust-cutaway-english.svg.png)

There seems to be upward forces that impeach a landmass to "sink" into the asthenosphere:

Isostasy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Isostasy is a term used in Geology to refer to the state of gravitational equilibrium between the Earth's lithosphere and asthenosphere such that the tectonic plates "float" at an elevation which depends on their thickness and density. It is invoked to explain how different topographic heights can exist at the Earth's surface. When a certain area of lithosphere reaches the state of isostasy, it is said to be in isostatic equilibrium. It is important to note that isostasy is not a process that upsets equilibrium, but rather one which restores it. It is generally accepted that the earth is a dynamic system that responds to loads in many different ways, however isostasy provides an important 'view' of the processes that are actually happening.

M


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Horus on January 03, 2008, 12:35:48 am
Firstly Desiree basically says that you can't say Atlantis doesn't exist in the Atlantic just because it hasn't been found there yet.  I agree with that ,but then she says that a huge landmass can't sink.  Why can't a huge landmass sink ?  Just because we haven't found out it happens yet ??

Hi Mark

Geologist William Hutton (a geology PhD for 60 years) has a theory which shows how major portions of the crust can downwarp during an axial poleshift. 


Also large masses can appear to "sink" when in truth they were inundated or flooded by rising sea levels at the close of the Pleistocene ice age.  It's well known that huge tracts of land -ancient islands and coastlines such as the Grand Bahama Bank, the Campeche Bank around the Yucatan and the Florida Shelf- were swallowed up by 100-300 ft. of water during this period.

H


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Arcturus on January 03, 2008, 06:19:42 am
Horus, are there any scientific papers you're referring to when you state that the Grand Bahamas Bank was submerged by 100 to 300 feet of water?  I assume this would be at the last Ice Age and my interest would be if it happened quickly or gradually.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Horus on January 03, 2008, 09:27:23 am
Horus, are there any scientific papers you're referring to when you state that the Grand Bahamas Bank was submerged by 100 to 300 feet of water?  I assume this would be at the last Ice Age and my interest would be if it happened quickly or gradually.

Good question Arcturus, and it's mine too.  This is what I do know:

Research done by Professor Faught's FSU team on the Florida Shelf reveals that sea levels were 110 ft. lower 12,000 years ago and 300 ft. lower 18,000 years ago.  This data is also corroborated by a study made by Toscano and McIntyre. The Grand Bahama Bank is relatively shallow (in some areas only 15ft. for miles and miles) matching Plato's statement in that regard.   

A study of stalactites in underwater caves or "blue holes" beneath Andros Island (which were explored by Jacques Cousteau) proved that they were above the surface in 10,000 B.C. and suggesting that the whole Bahama Platform was submerged about that time. 

Research done in other parts of the world have proved rapid and sudden flooding of certain areas such as the modern Persian Gulf during this cataclysmic period circa 9600 B.C. This is why scientists mark the beginning of the Holocene period at that exact date because of the sudden shifting of climate and sea levels at this time.  Is it a coincidence that this falls 9000 years before Solon's time as given in Plato's Dialogues?

My own theory suggests that volcanism from the nearby Caribbean Crustal Plate (which is small and highly unstable having five other major plates grinding against it) was dramatically accelerated by either an axial poleshift or the Carolina Bays meteor bombardment and either of these events could have produced a sudden, violent tectonic submergence of the southern rim of the North American Plate which is already naturally subducting the Caribb Plate.  -H


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 04, 2008, 12:27:46 pm
Dear . . . .  DHILL,  Mark Ponta,  Bianca  &  Horus,
 

About:  ATLANTIS  IN  THE  MEDIA- TERRA-  NEA-n Sea,

 ;D  Why do you think " People " placed it there ?

  8) YOUR  AZORES reasoning is fine, and fits Plato's description of a " Horseshoe-Mountain-"  surrounded island, but do you subscriber to the Notion that Atlantis was built within an " exitinct" Volcano Caldeiras ? ( Because THAT is what these AZORes Islands look like !)

NOT IMPORTANT:(?) " BlueHue's Theory:

My theory is that we" Fellow Atlantologists" have started out on the Wrong Foot   because " Atlantis / Atlantide / Atlantidis, " ADLANDIDIS ", was originally written in Greek whilst we are barking up the Wrong Tree using the Latin version, I have stressed this fact on mutual DEAF-ears !

Suggesting how ' Atlantis' would have been written in the original Gree is not difficult, the Latin translators by papershortage have shortened the GEO- Name " Atlantis" also : from the Greek:  THETA-Land to the Latin AT-Lant-is !

The SEA of Atlas or the Atlantic OCEAN would thus have to be re-written as: THETYS- SEA  or the OCEAN of THETYS !
WHICH is- ofcourse- the INDIAN- Ocean.

Moreover: If you " remember " that the Continent of EUROPE was named so, after herself, by a Queen of Atlantis named EUROPA, by refugies" Survivors" if you please FROM Atlantis, than it should be plausible that the Geo-Name:" Mediaterranean-Sea is derived from the WORLD- encompassing-OCEAN, which is PELAGIOUS OIKUMENE in Greek, but : in Latin reads " MEDIA-  TERRA- NEA-n SEA "!

The present ATLANTIC-  OCEAN was renamed so from it's original name " the SEA of SPAIN ". at the Peace-Treaty of Spain & Holland in Munster in 1649, the reason was that the over-cobceited Dutchman considdered this Peace treaty their sole victory over SPAIN and so they did not wish to continue to sail in the " Spanish" Sea, so by treaty in 1649, the Spanish had to change that -dutch-provocating-name !

AND THEY CHOSE THE GEO-NAME OF " ATLANTIC - OCEAN ', FOR PURE POLITICAL REASONS, BECAUSE IN:  1500 KING FERDINAND-1,  HAD - ALLREADY- DECREED, THAT Spain WERE THE " ORIGINAL" ATLANTIS,(  WHICH TO HIM ) WAS THE VERY SAME AS :" HESPERID-GARDEN/ Gadeiras"

SO, who are WE, poor sods of amateur Atlantologists, that we may contradict a scientific  KING  of  Spain in the CHOISE of the " original" Atlantis ? ? ? . . . I have placed this fact infront of the others who refused to counter-argue this fact ! and call it " off Topic" in any- other topic !

CONCLUSION:
Why is KING Ferdinand, according to every Atlantologist, ( except: " GEORGEOS' and ' Reiner KUHNE' .)  wrong (?)in naming his SPAIN as the ONLY' original' Atlantis, was he an Historian; Politician, or BOTH?  ( The present King Carlos, is very-un-ambitious in this respect ! )

WHY, is SPAIN, NOT " Atlantis" ( because THAT is what, You and all other Atlantologists are implying ! Maybe I am asking this to the wrong person !  Maybe to YOu and ALL others you use the same generic arguement as to Why " ADEN is not " Atlantis " Euh ?

" Try to wriggle yourselves out of that STEEL-Arguement !"

Sincerely yours,  :(  " BlueHue  ". :(  dd 4 Jan. 2008

Ps,
dHILL, Since you are so ' fond' of -exquisite-Russian Atlantis-theories, it may intrest you, that my mother's first-name was ' VERA' of veracity or, la- Verite and she was born in August-1917-in Moscau ! ( so,  my discovery of ' Atlantis' in ADEN, stays " in the family of -russian-Atlantis theories !". )  :'(


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Mark of Australia on January 04, 2008, 12:56:05 pm
Hey Bluehue my old friend ! :P

You say " fits Plato's description of a Horseshoe-Mountain "

errr... where the hell does Plato say that ?!!!   are you telling fibs again ?!!! ::)

..Amazing huh?   I actually read what you posted !!  ....well atleast the first line , I never get beyond the first few lines with your posts.  So hows about you put anything you have to say of substance in the first line from now on  ,that way I can respond to it. ::)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 04, 2008, 01:46:44 pm
Dear MARK,READ my SUB-Script, and comment on that First would you ?

EVIDENCE of ATLANTIS: exhibit A: Plato wrote of LOW-Mountains surrounding the ' Island ' descending into the Sea. Thus' not un-like a horseshoe !

MARK  PONTA found these same ' mountains' as Azores Island( or was it Malta ? I forget !) ;D  ( I am sorry, I have to cope with Alzheimer's disease)!




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 04, 2008, 01:54:22 pm
Hey Bluehue my old friend ! :P
You say " fits Plato's description of a Horseshoe-Mountain "
errr... where the hell does Plato say that ?!!!   are you telling fibs again ?!!! ::)
Amazing huh?   I actually read what you posted !!  ....well atleast the first line , I never get beyond the first few lines with your posts.  So hows about you put anything you have to say of substance in the first line from now on  ,that way I can respond to it. ::)

OKAY > > > MARK, here goes,  for the 64.000 Dollar Question:

 ??? QUESTION : WHAT was Plato's GREEK name for the Latinized Geo-Name " Atlantis " ?   :'(   ( Take it easy ! You may take a sneak-preview below !)  ???


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Mark of Australia on January 04, 2008, 11:24:14 pm
!!

I'm impressed Blue , you managed to keep the post to one subject.

But as for that subscript.I don't see what you think is so special about it.. It reads like total gibberish to me.

As for the Horseshoe claim ,thank you for not beating around the bush ...It's just your interpretation of Plato ,not what he actually said.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Desiree on January 05, 2008, 01:55:29 pm
Hi Dhill ,

This is some of the best posting about Atlantis I have ever seen. Especially since it's about 'scientific' evidence for Atlantis in the ATLANTIC.

I want to use this thread to comment on the 'Original Atlantis in the Atlantic' thread from AR.

In keeping with the theme of a large island in the Atlantic as suggested by the O'briens. I quote Desiree from the 'original' thread:

"The problem with this rationale, Jamie, is that you act that, just because something hasn't been found in the Atlantic yet, you act like it will never be found. Well, we don't know that. There are several different possibilities for Atlantis in the Atlantic as I listed above. One of the main criteria about Atlantis is that it "sunk," so obviously it's not still above water. If we look at this scientifically, it's pretty clear that a huge land mass can't sink, so we have to be looking for something smaller, an island or city perhaps and that's what sunk. There are many candidates in the Atlantic. "   Reply 455 http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5655.450.html

I take issue with this comment because it does appear to contradict itself or be hypocritical..  Firstly Desiree basically says that you can't say Atlantis doesn't exist in the Atlantic just because it hasn't been found there yet.  I agree with that ,but then she says that a huge landmass can't sink.  Why can't a huge landmass sink ?  Just because we haven't found out it happens yet ??

  I suggest that large landmasses can sink ,landmasses about the size of O'Briens Azorean-Atlantis.

I know that Desiree's response was to Jaime's theory that Atlantis is within the Mediterranean. So, while Desiree seriously considers an Atlantic Atlantis ,I feel that she is unnecessarily limiting herself to an Atlantis that doesn't match Plato's account ,since Plato spoke of a large island.

I wanna take this moment to say that Desiree is one of the best at this forum. :)
 

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the compliment! I think I should rephrase what I said earlier to Jaime, though.  First, I never said Atlantis didn't sink in the Atlantic, I said, just because there hasn't been any evidence found that it DID sink in the Atlantis doesn't mean it won't be found eventually.

As for whether a large land mass can sink, we not only have to look at the size that Plato makes Atlantis but the time frame it was supposed to have sunk in. There are examples of little islands sinking all the time in relatively short perods.  If we look at geological history, that is pretty acceptable to the scientific community (and any Atlantis theory has to, by definition, contain some credible science in it in order for it to be accepted).  But even though Plato calls Atlantis an "island," he makes it "larger than Libya and Asia combined." 

So either:

1.  He's talking about only the capital city sinking, which actually was an island.

2.  Atlantis itself wasn't really as big as Libya and Asia combined, but rather it's island empire was.


If we take Plato literally and imagine that the territory itself was the size of Libya and Asia combined, then we would be looking for something under the sea that, at minimum, would be the size of Australia or Greenland.  How could something that big sink as quickly as Plato says it did:  "in a single day and night."

That, to me, goes against the laws of physics! At least the ones we know of right now.

Of course, maybe the inference is that line from Plato only refers to the combatants in the war and Atlantis sunk more gradually (like Riven believes).  That is a problem, too, because most of the Atlantic is very deep and we would see more evidence of undeewater forests, former river systems (even underwater canals) like we see in the O'Brien's work in the Azores. 

That's why the Bahamas and Azores regions make the most sense to me.  You have evidence of sunken areas there already, and all that remains is to find some of the details that Plato talked about. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 05, 2008, 02:37:11 pm
Dear  DESIREE,

 :'( Please read my SUBSCRIPT it is not gibberish for true Atlantologists( it was a limmited-Space so it is Atlantis-in-Aden in a Nutshell.)


Atlantologists spelled " Atlantis" wrongly it is well, . . .  Look at the FOUR previous discussions that I had with your old Chum Mark-Ponta, but he did not answer my QUESTION: " WHAT was the GREEK original word,  by PLATO, of the - later- Latinized(= corrupted) Geo-word " ATLANTIDE/ ATLANTIS ? ? ?   :'(   dd 8.Jan. 2008


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 14, 2008, 08:37:40 am
=Mark Ponta link=topic=651.msg54785#msg54785 date=1199004415]
Hi Dhill , This is some of the best posting about Atlantis I have ever seen. Especially since it's about 'scientific' evidence for Atlantis in the ATLANTIC.
I want to use this thread to comment on the 'Original Atlantis in the Atlantic' thread from AR.
Bahamas and Azores regions make the most sense to me.  You have evidence of sunken areas there already, and all that remains is to find some of the details that Plato talked about. 

Dear  DESIREE,

You have not commented nor replied on my nutshell Theory at the Bottom post in Blue,

Atlantis is a mistranscription from LATIN AT.    The original Geo-name would be THETA or THETYS-Sea & Land which are today both called" ADEN".   CONFUSION about the ATLAS- SEA  or Atlantic- OCEAN ? is because OCEANUS "  Married " the Thethys(= Sea.) which became PONTOS or Poseidon as issue, this is today the Gulf of Aden or " Mare- Erytraeum as Herodotus said.

At Melos HALL in Greece, 50 " Scientific" Lectures were delivered at the Atlantis Conference in 2005,  50 ' scientific' Atlantologists were LOOKING , here,  Elsewhere on the wrong name and thus were barking-up, the wrong Tree !:(  " BlueHue " :( dd 14 Jan 2008


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: SciFiDiver on February 24, 2008, 12:17:58 am
About 3 years ago, while researching material for a novel, I stumbled across the "lost city of Cuba" articles and became fascinated with the subject. So fascinated, in fact, that I put the novel on hold and created a blog at http://www.TheMegaBlog.com. (MEGA is the name that was given to the ruins by Zelitsky and Weinzweig shortly after their discovery of the site)

Over time, the scope of my blog broadened to include the work of Greg and Lora Little and Bill Donato in the Bahamas. Bibliographies of their online articles are available for download from the blog, along with photos and maps.

I'm happy to say that the novel finally got finished and it makes extensive use of both the "lost city" and the Bahamas. In fact, my fictional characters take you on an ROV tour of the Cuban ruins and on a diving adventure off the coast of South Bimini. Triangle, the third and last book in my Seeds of Civilization series will be available in mid-March and is available for pre-order now at Barnes and Noble's online store (http://www.bn.com).  Visit the Series' site at http://www.SeedsOfCivilization.com (http://www.SeedsOfCivilization.com) for information about the the first 2 books, which are also based on real archaeological mysteries.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on February 27, 2008, 12:02:21 pm





                                         Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean –




that is the favourite theory among many scientists all over the world. Just because Plato
mentioned an empire in the Atlantic Ocean? No! There is considerable circumstancial evi-
dence for a land bridge or a huge island in the Atlantic Ocean.

According to Plato’s report, Atlantis should be situated between Spain, North Africa and
Central America. This is exactly where the Canary Islands are – and the Atlantic Ridge,
one of the world’s most unstable regions. Moreover, this is also the location of the Azores
and, further westward, the Caribbean area with its huge and small islands.

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantis_karte.jpg)

Picture above:

In 1665, the German Jesuit priest Athanasius Kircher
created this inverted map of Atlantis.

Turning the map results in an image of the Central Atlantic
 plateau around the Azores. What is unusual about that is
that people at that time had only little knowledge about
the nature of the sea bed.

Were some ancient notes available to the Jesuit priests
enabling them to create such a map?


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on February 27, 2008, 12:09:31 pm








From time immemorial, the Atlantic Ridge, from Iceland to South America, has been
an area of considerable seismic activity. Volcanic eruptions and earthquakes are
nothing extraordinary.




The Atlantic Ocean – Catastrophes:



In 1669, a major part of the notorious pirate island Port Royal sank due to an disastrous
earthquake.

In 1775, Lisbon, which is on a parallel with the Azores at a latitude of 39 43'/36 55' N,
was badly hit by a devastating earthquake killing 60 000 people. Moreover, both the
harbour and the docks sank 200 metres to the ground.

In 1783, one fifth of the Icelandic population fell victim to a catastrophic earthquake.

In 1811, on the Azores, a volcanic island named “Sambrina“ rose some thousand metres
to the surface and sank again shortly after. The islands of Corvi and Flores constantly
change their shape and parts of them are swallowed up by the sea.

To the best of present knowledge there is an underwater area with deep valleys and
high mountains around the Azores and the Canary Islands. Reducing the sea level by
150 metres to the Ice Age level brings about a huge piece of land which, however,
does not match the dimensions Plato wrote about.

Nevertheless, further westward, in the Caribbean area, a huge land mass comes into
existence which perfectly meets Platos records.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on February 27, 2008, 12:11:56 pm








The Atlantic Ocean – Facts:



In 1969, by order of Duke University, an expedition to the Aves Ridge in the Caribbean
Sea found granite on fifty locations. Usually, granite is found only onshore or where
once had been solid ground.

In 1898, 750 km north of the Azores, the transatlantic cable broke. On this occasion,
rock samples were taken from a depth of 17 000 fathoms. A close examination came
to the result that the rock samples consisted of tachylyte, a lava-like substance.
Yet this mineral would not emerge unless above sea level and under atmospheric
pressure.

Moreover, it will decompose after 15 000 years.

This means that once there had been mainland.




In a depth of up to 1 000 metres, coastal sand was found on the reefs of the Azores.
However, it usually only appears on flat beaches.

In 1936, the Geological Society of America conducted a study of sunken river canyons
in the Atlantic Ocean. It says that rivers on the European, the North African and the
American side sank into the continental sockets for up to 300 km in length and 2 km in
depth. That means that in the Pleistocene Age, that is when mankind emerged, the sea
level underwent a change in depth up to 2 000 metres.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on February 27, 2008, 12:12:58 pm
(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantischer_ruecken.gif)







The Atlantic Ridge – one of the world’s most notorious regions in terms of seismic activity.
Decreasing the sea level by 300 to 400 metres brings about a huge land mass that would
perfectly fit Plato’s descriptions. In “Critias“, Plato writes:



“(...)In the next place, they had fountains, one of cold and another of hot water, in
gracious plenty flowing; and they were wonderfully adapted for use by reason of the
pleasantness and excellence of their waters. They constructed buildings about them
and planted suitable trees, also they made cisterns, some open to the heavens, others
roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths (...)“



Usually, these warm and cold springs manifest themselves within continental zones.
An example for this is Iceland where people use the warm springs to supply themselves
with heat and energy – just as Plato put it.

Yet the Würm Ice Age 12 000 years ago is not a suitable candidate to have reduced
the sea level along the Atlantic Ridge. Did, then, the catastrophe in the Atlantic Ocean
indeed happen? That desaster with its devastating earthquakes and inundations that
caused the mid-Atlantic Ridge to sink? Or is it all about an inundation of the Caribbean
area with its shallow waters? Also, the point in time when the glaciers melted would
perfectly meet the time of the disappearance of Atlantis as has been indicated by Plato.

Read the following excerpt from the Critias dialogue:



“(...)Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years
which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those
who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am
going to describe. (...)“


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on February 27, 2008, 12:18:12 pm
(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/aalwanderung.gif)







A further mystery concerns the migrations of the European eels.

These animals spawn in the Sargasso Sea west of the United States of America.

The newborn eels start their three years long eastbound migration following the Gulf
Stream to the European rivers. Having reached sexual maturity they migrate back to
the Sargasso Sea within four months, however leaving the Azores to their left this time.
It has been proven that the eels need freshwater to reach maturity but why do they
venture on this long journey across the Atlantic Ocean?

Could it be that the eels have a genetic memory of a mainland with freshwater in the
Atlantic Ocean but cannot find it again because it sank? Is that why they keep on
migrating until they reach Europe?




Another phenomenon relates to the suicide of the Norwegian lemmings.

Every year when their homeland is running short of food, these little rodents start
migrating westwards. At the end of their migration they jump into the ocean and
continue swimming westwards until they drown. What is it these animals are after
in the ocean? Are they following a basic instinct driving them into the ocean? Are
they looking for a land that offered them plenty of food a long time ago?

Was this land Atlantis, located in the Atlantic Ocean according to Plato?


http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/atlantis/atlantis_atlantic.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on April 03, 2008, 03:56:07 pm

area of considerable seismic activity. Volcanic eruptions and earthquakes are
nothing extraordinary.
In 1669, a major part of the notorious pirate island Port Royal sank due to an disastrous
earthquake.

In 1775, Lisbon, which is on a parallel with the Azores. Moreover, both the
harbour and the docks sank 200 metres to the ground.

In 1811, on the Azores, a volcanic island named “Sambrina“ rose some thousand metres
to the surface and sank again shortly after. The islands of Corvi and Flores constantly
change their shape and parts of them are swallowed up by the sea.

there is an underwater area with deep valleys and
high mountains around the Azores and the Canary Islands. Reducing the sea level by
150 metres to the Ice Age level brings about a huge piece of land which,
however,
does not match the dimensions Plato wrote about.


Dear........ BIANCA,


Wasn't the collaps of Lissabon in 1754 instead of 1775 ? ?  :'(


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on April 03, 2008, 04:17:23 pm








Blue,

According to wikepedia it was


                                                   1 7 5 5


The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, also known as the Great Lisbon Earthquake, took place on November 1, 1755 at 9:40 in the morning.

The earthquake was followed by a tsunami and fire, which caused near-total destruction of Lisbon and adjoining areas.

Geologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake approached magnitude 9 on the Richter scale, with an epicenter in the Atlantic Ocean about 200 km (120 mi) west-southwest of Cape St. Vincent.

Estimates place the death toll between 60,000 to 100,000 people, making it one of the most destructive earthquakes in history.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on April 03, 2008, 04:55:18 pm
1755, OFCOURSE,
 your  little  misquote of 1775 was just a " Pons Asinorum"

By the way those threedimentional Landscape Pictures of San Marino were wonderfull,
wonder if you could display some scenes still of Actor what's his name  as  Rupert of Montjoy

I think that all Earthquakes are caused by the Yearly conjunction of MARS & MOON
 pulling High Tides from the SUN's influence,
when theae two"planets" are at their closest range towards Earth
 their combined gravitational pull triggers Earth-Quakes & Tsunamies.

3.000 years ago Mars and Moon were in closer more elypsoide orbit arond Earth
 and their Conjunctions THEN must have been more devastating than today
Also because the carried Satelites in their wake.

Some of these were attracted by Earth and fell into the still watered South Arabian DESERT
the TWO Trabants or satelite rocks that Mars still carries with him
might have been the origin of the Myth of Romulus & Remus as having been suckled by a She Wolf

 :'(  :'(


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on April 03, 2008, 07:34:51 pm


No, Blue, it was not a case of "pons asinorum".......

Believe it or not it took me re-reading it a couple of times before it registered as

1 7 5 5 -  I kept TRULY 'seeing' it as  1 7 7 5.......


This has never happened to me before.  My eyesight is great, since I had lens replacement
surgery about two years ago.  I can only put it down to STRESS.......we have had a few
sudden deaths in the family, the last one about a week ago.  I have been trying to work
through my grief, I guess, and I am not doing as well as I thought I could......


I am so glad you liked the San Marino thread.  I have been there, of course, it is located in
my home Province, Marche.  That's where I was born and raised, right by the Adriatic sea....

Down below is Rimini and nearby is the Castle of Gradara, where Paolo and Francesca, the lovers
of the "Divine Comedy", lived......It's a lovely castle, the ceilings were done by Raffaello's father.

The last time I went 'home' was in 1993.  It was probably my last time, as money is getting
tight and I don't foresee much improvement.  So I am really, truly enjoying the chance to re-
member doing my little 'travelogues'......



QUOTE


"........Some of these were attracted by Earth and fell into the still watered South Arabian
DESERT the TWO Trabants or satelite rocks that Mars still carries with him might have been
the origin of the Myth of Romulus & Remus as having been suckled by a She Wolf"


Could be, Blue.

Keep in mind that this miserable little bunch of men's huts on the Tiber had to come up with
some pretty good story to make its mark.  That's why the tale of the Vestal Virgin Rea Silvia
and the god Mars being the parents of Romulus and Rhemus. And Mars was the perfect god
to pick, when one considers all the peoples they would have to fight, starting with the Sabines.

Anyway, being the romantics we are, unless things have changed, that's what was taught in
schools (officially) when I was a little girl........



QUOTE

......wonder if you could display some scenes still of Actor what's his name  as  Rupert of Montjoy.....


Blue, what movie is that from, 'Henry V' with Laurence Olivier?  I wasn't aware it was made in San
Marino.  As far as I know only 'Prince of Foxes' with Tyrone Power and Orson Wells was made there.

Bianca



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on April 27, 2008, 07:00:52 am

Dear,....BIANCA,  

You must be a Movie-Buff, no I just remembered it was PETER  USTINOFF,

by the way I too have now one lense implant, but it looks like looking through
soiled fatty spectacle glass at the end of the day when grease accumulates

on the spectacle surface or like un=polarized glass i see a white haze with
some sharp vision Fragments but with blurred total vision the rate is 40%
vision, but I cannot read with it nor walk a straight line. it was-19 before
 the operation, my other unoperated eye is -19 too, so ithe operation i8s imminent.

alas I seem to have an eye lens degeneration something with " adrolymmed " (= incorrect  word!)
or someting, I could not read it since I only could take a glance
on the Doctor's screen from a distance when he looked-up my
medical record !  So I now opt for a second opinion in case I
 have got lense degeneration in the other Eye to, someting must
 my thought of to circumvent the problem maybe have it cat away
 half inserted of whole ass in a CATHAR- Operation.

However what can be done about my present
FAILED Eye operation ? what can bwe don re-insert
 another Lens a better Lens? no can do  these lenzes
can only be replaced every 20 odd yers without eye
damage so I am stuck with it !

I had some troubles with new neighbours I' ll try I the
Housing Authority if,  they will let me move to a safer location

with my 2.000 Text studyBooks !

Thanks for your Attantive " Birthday whish ! I am 48 now. :'(   :'(   :'(


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: HereForNow on May 07, 2008, 08:11:19 am
(http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/documents/97019/dispersion.gif)


Looking at this GIF, how would a continent sized island develope in the Atlantic basin?


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: HereForNow on May 07, 2008, 08:19:14 am
(http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/docs/usgsnps/animate/A08.gif)

Even in this animation of tectonic movement. In the ocean, great underwater mountains are formed when plates spread away from one another, and melted rock pushes up through the gap. Yet there is no evidence of this in any of the sources that I have researched yet at the bottom of the Atlantic atleast.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on May 07, 2008, 02:46:40 pm
(http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/docs/usgsnps/animate/A08.gif)

Even in this animation of tectonic movement. In the ocean, great underwater mountains are formed when plates spread away from one another, and melted rock pushes up through the gap. Yet there is no evidence of this in any of the sources that I have researched yet at the bottom of the Atlantic atleast.




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Horus on May 11, 2008, 10:53:45 am
HereForNow,

The continents were united as one supercontinent 250 million years ago during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic periods.  This was well before the timetable for Atlantis' civilization offered by Plato or Cayce or even Blavatsky!

Also, though Atlantis doesn't seem to have it's "own" crustal plate, there's nothing to preclude the idea that portions of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were once above the surface.  In fact quite the opposite.  Geological evidence of rivers and lakebeds can be found on the Azores Plateau, and corings in that area have found freshwater diatoms proving that this particular area was once above the surface and as recently as 12,000 years ago.

-H


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: HereForNow on May 11, 2008, 01:56:38 pm
(http://perso-sdt.univ-brest.fr/~goslin/SIRENA/SIRENA_2/images/medium_images/ac_shd_c.jpg)

(http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/islands_oceans_poles/azores.jpg)


Now the question arises; where is the great and fair plains?

Greenland and Antarctica would have these features. As well as a mountain(s), rivers, and areas of circular anomalies. I'm not going to say that it's not a possible Atlantis. I'm only stating that all the legendary tell-tail signs about Atlantis, are not here.  :-\


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on May 11, 2008, 05:35:12 pm







Re: Atlantis CANNOT be in America
« Reply #112 on: Today at 10:19:34 pm » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smiley4554

Administrator
Member # 332

  posted 07-09-2002 12:33 PM           


There are dozens of sites w/Atlantis...use search engine.

Once all the maps have been studied, especially using ocean topography, it is clear that the Pacific cannot have been the location of Atlantis, but you will also notice that in the Atlantic are found 10 plains, possible for 10 kingdoms for 10 kings just as Plato's account states.




*************************************************************************************






They are:



On the East side of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge:





Biscay Plain

Cape Verde Plain

Angola Plain

Cape Plain

Weddell Plain





On the West side of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge:



Sohm Plain

Hatteras Plain

Demeraro Plain

Pernambuco Plain

Argentine Plain (the largest of all)





I must admit, when I counted the plains within the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, I was astounded to find that

there were exactly 10 of them! I was not expecting this at all.

I found them when Zia placed the theory of Indonesia. I must thank Zia for this.




*************************************************************************************


Also, The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is the ONLY (and full) North-South "crack" in the world tying into the

following:



Southwest & Southeast Indian Ridge

Central Indian Ridge

Pacific Antarctic Ridge

East Pacific Rise

Juan de Fuca Ridge




Even though the area of the Ring of Fire surrounds the Pacific, it SURROUNDS the Pacific. It does not fit in with Atlantis.

Also, you might look up a map that has the Panthalssa Ocean & Tethys Sea. This is a little harder to find.




FROM:


THE MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,280.90.html#lastPost


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on June 18, 2008, 02:54:57 am
I think my circuits are overloading ;D  I can't believe I haven't read this thread before - it's beautiful.  The work that went into it is incredible.  I was looking for a place to post this link

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html

and thought it should be here.  Hell, I'm a day late and a dollar short aren't I? :-[


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 18, 2008, 05:40:57 am
Hi Qoais,

We already have a great thread on Christian O'Brien with excerpts from the Golden Age Project website.

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1458.0.html

By the way, this thread also contains the best article I have ever read against the theory of continental drift.

Tom




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on June 18, 2008, 10:12:12 am





QUOTE:


"I can't believe I haven't read this thread before - it's beautiful. 

The work that went into it is incredible"



Yes, that's 'dhill'!!!

I am this person's biggest fan, I think......

Unfortunately, because of other obligations, he can't be here too often.

The only thing that kept me at AR was reading his ORIGINAL. 
After that, I lost interest in that site....

Here it is:


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5655.0.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on August 25, 2008, 12:39:44 pm
(http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/docs/usgsnps/animate/A08.gif)

Even in this animation of tectonic movement. In the ocean, great underwater mountains are formed when plates spread away from one another, and melted rock pushes up through the gap. Yet there is no evidence of this in any of the sources that I have researched yet at the bottom of the Atlantic atleast.

Would you believe that the MOON bounced off Earth twice in 1055 and 855 bc ?

In 1055 bc the seismic wave travelling trough earth's core came out the other end
and caused the Americas to separate from europe and africa the Greeks called this TITANO-machia

in 855 bc, the seismic wave cause the Himalayians to rise and all Lakes to burst causing Sealevel-rise.
Dr velikovsky called it a collectiv memory loss that nobody seems to remember these 2 Events


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2008, 03:06:02 pm
Blue Hue - surely you don't believe the Himilayas are only about 2600 years old?    The earth was well populated then, and I'm sure there would have been writings about such a catacylsmic event in all cultures of those times. 

"The Himalayas are among the youngest mountain ranges on the planet. According to the modern theory of plate tectonics, their formation is a result of a continental collision or orogeny along the convergent boundary between the Indo-Australian Plate and the Eurasian Plate. The collision began in the Upper Cretaceous period about ► 70 million years ago, when the north-moving Indo-Australian Plate, moving at about 15 cm/year, collided with the Eurasian Plate. By about 50 million years ago this fast moving Indo-Australian plate had completely closed the Tethys Ocean, whose existence has been determined by sedimentary rocks settled on the ocean floor and the volcanoes that fringed its edges. Since these sediments were light, they crumpled into mountain ranges rather than sinking to the floor. The Indo-Australian plate continues to be driven horizontally below the Tibetan plateau, which forces the plateau to move upwards. The Arakan Yoma highlands in Myanmar and the Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the Bay of Bengal were also formed as a result of this collision.

The Indo-Australian plate is still moving at 67 mm/year, and over the next 10 million years it will travel about 1,500 km into Asia. About 20 mm/year of the India-Asia convergence is absorbed by thrusting along the Himalaya southern front. This leads to the Himalayas rising by about 5 mm/year, making them geologically active. The movement of the Indian plate into the Asian plate also makes this region seismically active, leading to earthquakes from time to time."


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2008, 03:13:46 pm
I would like to know who this dhill person is.  Because it just so happens that the has copied all this work from R. Cedric Leonard's website  Quest for Atlantis.

Go back to page one of this thread.  Compare it to this quote from Leonard's web site:

Quote
THOTH

Scattered though they may be, an interesting picture emerges from the numerous references to Thoth in the earliest writings of the ancient Egyptians--and that picture fits the theory of an Atlantean origin for this intriguing character. Although late writings depict him as a god, the earliest texts depict him as a king (The Palermo Stone versus The Coffin Texts; Faulkner, 1974).


Thoth was born in a distant country to the west which was across a body of water. Its main city was by the sea (Plato's metropolis). The land possessed volcanos and the city had a low mountain or large hill in the center. This land is sometimes referred to as an Island of Fire. (Book of the Dead, Hymn of Rameses IV and Pyramid Texts) Thoth is known as "Lord of the horizon"; and like Poseidon, the earthshaker, Thoth is sometimes called "cleaver of the earth" (Papyrus of Ani, Chapter LXI).


In Chapter LXXXV of the Book of the Dead, Thoth rules the "Western Domain," and by the end of the New Kingdom he is called "Lord of the West" (Seth, 1912). He is said to be the inventor of writing, astronomy, mathematics and civilization in general (Budge, 1960). Thoth is often called the Scribe (Pyramid Texts; Book of the Dead, et al.); his Egyptian name, Tehuti, means "the measurer" (Budge, 1960).


A catastrophe occurred which darkened the sun and disturbed the gods, but Thoth led them across the sea to an eastern country [Egypt]. Thoth is depicted as the "controller of the Flood," (Leyden Papyrus) and the Theban Recension includes the Island of Fire in the Flood story. (Papyrus of Ani, Chap. CLXXV) Thoth thus appears to be ruler of an Island Kingdom in the West. The question therefore is: Was Thoth a migrant from Atlantis, and did he once rule there?

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

I have e-mailed Mr. Leonard to ask him if it was himself that was posting this.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on August 25, 2008, 04:12:10 pm





QUOTE:


"I would like to know who this dhill person is.  Because it just so happens that the has copied all this work from R. Cedric Leonard's website  Quest for Atlantis."




'Dhill' is probably the most respected researcher here and at AR!!!


Most of his work is in ATLANTIS IN THE ATLANTIC OCEAN section.


Because of personal reasons he cannot be with us very often, unfortunately.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on August 25, 2008, 04:54:55 pm
YUP I do, ( from 855 bc.)Seeing that the Tops are from the QUARTERNARY period the Million old age of this YOUNGEST Mountainrange must be a fallacy !

Blue Hue - surely you don't believe the Himilayas are only about 2600 years old?    The earth was well populated then, and I'm sure there would have been writings about such a catacylsmic event in all cultures of those times. 

"The Himalayas are among the youngest mountain ranges on the planet. According to the modern theory of plate tectonics, their formation is a result of a continental collision or orogeny along the convergent boundary between the Indo-Australian Plate and the Eurasian Plate. The collision began in the Upper Cretaceous period about ► 70 million years ago, when the north-moving Indo-Australian Plate, moving at about 15 cm/year, collided with the Eurasian Plate. By about 50 million years ago this fast moving Indo-Australian plate had completely closed the Tethys Ocean, whose existence has been determined by sedimentary rocks settled on the ocean floor and the volcanoes that fringed its edges. Since these sediments were light, they crumpled into mountain ranges rather than sinking to the floor. The Indo-Australian plate continues to be driven horizontally below the Tibetan plateau, which forces the plateau to move upwards. The Arakan Yoma highlands in Myanmar and the Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the Bay of Bengal were also formed as a result of this collision.

The Indo-Australian plate is still moving at 67 mm/year, and over the next 10 million years it will travel about 1,500 km into Asia. About 20 mm/year of the India-Asia convergence is absorbed by thrusting along the Himalaya southern front. This leads to the Himalayas rising by about 5 mm/year, making them geologically active. The movement of the Indian plate into the Asian plate also makes this region seismically active, leading to earthquakes from time to time."



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2008, 05:33:04 pm
You asked me to put the question to Mr. Leonard regarding the translation for either "larger" or "between".

Here is his reply:

Your correspondant seems to think meson means "larger" and mesos means "in-between". These are simply two inflections of the same Greek word meaning "in the middle of" or "in-between"; but more seriously, Plato uses neither of them here. Mega means "large" (not meson) and Plato obviously used the comparative inflection of mega (i.e., "larger," which is meizon).


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2008, 05:38:20 pm
Mr. Leonard has confirmed that it is NOT himself posting as dhill757.  I do see in some instances where dhill has made links to his sources, and in some he does not.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on August 25, 2008, 10:49:26 pm



Okey dokey, 

I feel better now. 

Thanks, Q!!!


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Tom Hebert on August 26, 2008, 05:35:14 am
You asked me to put the question to Mr. Leonard regarding the translation for either "larger" or "between".

Here is his reply:

Your correspondant seems to think meson means "larger" and mesos means "in-between". These are simply two inflections of the same Greek word meaning "in the middle of" or "in-between"; but more seriously, Plato uses neither of them here. Mega means "large" (not meson) and Plato obviously used the comparative inflection of mega (i.e., "larger," which is meizon).

Hi Qoais,

Thank you for clarifying the correct translation with an expert!



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Qoais on August 26, 2008, 09:56:35 am
Hi Tom - that was for Blue Hue because I know nothing about Latin or Greek and since Blue Hue had told me a different interpretation, I put the question to Mr. Leonard.  Then Blue Hue thought I hadn't put it in context, so I asked again and that was the reply.  Apparently Mr. Leonard does not use the Latin translations, but uses the Greek writings to translate.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on November 21, 2008, 09:23:05 am
BlueHue  and  0  Guests  are  viewing this  Topic.

Dear........QOAIS,

I knew it allready,
but the other day You fetched a Link
that said that the " PILLARS " off Gibraltar,
were formerly at Bab -el- Mandab( or at MILOS !)

But haven't you wondered
What the importance of These 'PILLARS' is
for the Location of Atlantis ?
Who says "PILLARS " says: 'ATLANTIS'

PILLARS & GADEIRA  PYLAE are 'Atlantis'
That's why GEORGEOS was so convinced of his HOAX- theory
and TITIEA of her Atlantis in MEROE- whereas it was really
in the FAR - WEST not of America but ARABY !

why did Hekataios & Herodotus place
NILE Sources in Morocco?
every atlantologist took this for granted!

And the Atlas Mountains in Morocco
were drawn on the( itinerary=text-)Map

of Hekataios(dd 512 bc.) and Herodotus(dd 450 bc.)
together with a Horizontal Nile River
that ran PARALELL with the Mediaterannean-SEA

My educated guess is
that Both these Logographers Maps are intended FORGERIES
dating from around 220 bc using older material
where the NILE had still ran in Ethiopia, PARALELL with the RED- SEA!
If You were BIANCA you immediately would ask
For a LINK saying"  I General Hasdrubal confess to that Map-Forgery"
( preferably in posh- Latin !)

MAP- FORGERIES
took Atlantis Toponyms OUTSIDE Araby
.
 I tried to explain & concey to BIANCA that for intended secret
Map-forgeries a Link is hard to provide. but:" no LINK no case" She said.

Otherwise with her cunning for quoting Pre-Roman-Old Maps
of the NW- African Coasts,  She would have found it already !

I formulated that the Atlantic-geo-Names OUTSIDE ARABY
are result of a geographic -map-ERROR induced by the WEST- Punicians.

because general HADRUBAL around 220 bc tried to impress his Roman-rivals,
by re-naming SPAIN as HIBERIA or Hesperia anyway as (" NEW-) ATlantis.

and he RE- named" Gibraltar' as the *(NEW-)Pillars of Hercules(or Kronos.)
CARTAGENA was the (NEW-) Carthage, CADIZ was the ( NEW-)Gadeira etc

It didn't impress the Romans much
after the Siege of Saguntum and th( lost )Battle at ZAMA
Scipio Africanus -junior quickly concuerred whole IBERIA
and the whole "SPAIN is Atlantis issue "was soon forgotten.

Only The ISLAS Fortunates Geo-Name,
remained settled on the Canary Island Archipellago.
as a sort of Roman penal-colony.

MUCH  Later in 1500 ad
King Ferdinand-1 re-Re-named SPAIN as the' original" Atlantis
to twart the " Legality" of the Tordesillias partition
 of the NEW-World-TREATY( dd 1489.)which he called part of Atlantis.

BEACON in 1620 called America the (" NEW-)Atlantis
but somehow by mediashortening America BECAME regarded as Atlantis
and even KIRCHER in 1670 placed Atlantis in MID- OCEAN.

Where as in the original Text Atlantis 'isle' was not Placed in MID- OCEAN,
but ON the MIDDLE-World-Ocean-ic SEA of Atlas.-
MID
- in-between = MESON, NOT MEIZON
Thus in
the bent-KNICK  division of TWO rectangular-positioned Seas( Red- Sea & Gulf of Aden.)

 Meanwhile cartographically speaking,
the horizontally placed Nile River had vanished and been straightened out Vertically
The NIGER became nowConfused with the Ficticious
horizontally mapped Nile!as the" Negrito- Nile(='Niger'!)

YOU BELIEVE in ATLANTIS in Morocco ? '
 in Morocco or NW- Africa, than that's really FABULOUS !
and You than accuse me of " Fabulations " ?Fabulous ? Me ?? ???
than you must inadvertendly also place the" Sources" of the Nile in Morocco too !

CONCLUSION:

There are ONLY  THREE indicative  where Atlantis was
which are all overlooked, watched or glanced-over, with a blind Eye
but coverred by " BlueHue " dissident Atlantis-view:

One:  Atlantis was OIKUMENE=the KNOWN- World.(=of ARABY.)

Two:  Atlantis was opposite the PILLARS( of Hercules in Spain or KRONOS in ADEN>)

Three:Atlantis is paralell to the MOON -Mountains in Ethiopia
( or Atlas Mountains in Mauretania/ Morocco.)

If OIKUMENE is identical to Atlantis
and Oikumene is also ( WEST-)ARABY
than why look further for the original-Atlantis ?

If OUKUMENE is ATLANTIS
than the SEA which bordered Atlantis
(thus the SEA-of- Atlas) is the same as -
the MARE- Erytraeum or GULF of Aden.
At least in extention of Herodotus own words.

If Oikumene is Atlantis,
than the SEA that Surrounded OIKUMENE is the
Okeanous Oikumene, or
World-Ocean-river or the MID- Earth Sea
which is the RED- Sea
now, is THAT so difficult to understand?

IF OIKUMENE is ATLANTIS nickname
How on Earth can we place Atlantis
OUTSIDE- this OIKUMENE e.g.in America ?
I rest my case :'( :o :'( really even a child could fathom that.

Don't take me for a mere fabulator
just because I can't remember LINKS ! I cannot LINK as an autistic-Recluse.
My life as an pre-natal Alzheimer case isn't fun because you live by day not by LINKS !
Everybody around here sports LINKS but inspite of that no" Linker"
has found a LINK to Atlantis proper YET! ( So much for Linking Atlantis to SPAIN @!)

You once told me that you were inclined
to adhere to my dissident Atlantis VIEW
but were barred so because of some FABULATION
I am grouping in the dark here! are you afraid to speak out?

Would you care to NAME some of , my apparent or
alledged fabulations( now that I have told you
 how wrong the case for NW-Africa as Atlantis looks!)
so that at least I could' defend' myself ? ? ?
  ???

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 20 Nov-2008


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on November 21, 2008, 10:31:35 am
BlueHue   and  0  Guests  are viewing  this  topic.
Blue Hue - surely you don't believe the Himilayas are only from 855 bc ? 
Earth was well populated then, writings about such a catacylsmic event 
"The Himalayas are among the youngest mountain ranges seismically active, leading to earthquakes ."

The ( TWO-)Atlantis CATACLYSMS
occurred during the TITANS- reign and Age
but they
were later-on DISGRACED, demonized and Tabooed
and their memmory blurred

TITANS: Thot/ Prometheus CHNUM
fashioned new MAN from White Clay
not in Hoary old Ages but ca.1.000 bc
( Rev.21 in a ' NEW' World!)

The fact that we still know about their doomed-existence is
because hidden records survived and were unearthed by
greek writers, around 500 till 400 bc.

POSEIDON a TITAN. GOD or Both ?
Afterwards the GODS made war to these TITANS
and forbade their memory even their Cults ! So,

If there were historical writings about contemporary
cataclysms of Titan-ages ca 1.000 bc, they were suppressed

The Problem with finding references to Atlantis is BECAUSE
it's knowledge was politically suppressed , So I am sure
contemporary writings of atlantis deluge DID exists
but were hidden from later political CENSORS

One stupid question I heared as a a skeptical- counter-arguments is:
Did they have Censors & censorship in those ancient times ?

Sincerely " BlueHue   ( " Stop Spamming this Topic " I hear BIANCA say in the background.)20 Nov.2008


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on November 21, 2008, 03:36:22 pm


BLUE HUE:


"than you must inadvertendly also place the" Sources" of the Nile in Morocco too !"


No, but the Nile DID empty in the Atlantic Ocean in remote times, it has been shown
by pictures taken in space.



I told you before:


I am looking for Atlantis in 9,000 BC - according to documents



YOU:

Are looking for 'whatever' in 855 BC




"Either Atlantis is an island in the Atlantic or it's not Atlantis at all." -

James Bramwell,
'Lost Atlantis',
1937



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: War God of the Deep on November 25, 2008, 07:18:22 am
War God of the Deep, Horus and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

I can't see why anyone sets the destruction of Atlantis in 855 bc. Not only is there no geological event recorded then that could be mistaken for the destruction of Atlantis, it would have been in such recent times that there isn't a chance that ancient historians could have had a case of mistaken identity for Atlantis.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 25, 2008, 06:06:45 pm

Hi,

Blue Hue is a fierce "Velikovskian", as far as i know...

Immanuel Velikovsky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky

Quote
The revised chronology aimed at explaining the so-called "dark age" of the eastern Mediterranean (ca. 1100 – 750 BCE) and reconciling biblical history with mainstream archeology and Egyptian chronology.

Quote
He arrived at a body of radical inter-disciplinary ideas, which might be summarized as:

    * Planet Earth has suffered natural catastrophes on a global scale, both before and during mankind's recorded history.
    * There is evidence for these catastrophes in the geological record (here Velikovsky was advocating Catastrophist ideas as opposed to the prevailing Uniformitarian notions) and archeological record. The extinction of many species had occurred catastrophically, not by gradual Darwinian means.
    * The catastrophes which occurred within the memory of mankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion and in the Manu legend of India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends.
    * The cause of these natural catastrophes were close encounters between the Earth and other bodies within the solar system — not least what were now the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Venus and Mars, these bodies having moved upon different orbits within human memory.
    * To explain the celestial mechanics necessary to permit these changes to the configuration of the solar system, Velikovsky thought that electromagnetic forces might somehow play a greater role to counteract gravity and orbital mechanics.
    * Velikovsky argued that the conventional chronology of the Near East and classical world, based upon Egyptian Sothic dating and the king lists of Manetho, was wholly flawed. This was the reason for the apparent absence of correlation between the Biblical record and those of neighbouring cultures, and also the cause of the enigmatic "Dark Ages" in Greece and elsewhere. Velikovsky shifted several chronologies and dynasties from the Egyptian Old Kingdom to Ptolemaic times by centuries (a scheme he called the Revised Chronology), placing the Exodus contemporary with the fall of the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. He proposed numerous other synchronisms stretching up to the time of Alexander the Great. He argued that these eliminate phantom "Dark Ages", and vindicate the biblical accounts of history and those recorded by Herodotus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on November 25, 2008, 06:25:15 pm




Thank you, Mario-

I've been aware of BH's source from the time I first met him.....








                                                    I M M A N U E L   V E L I K O V S K Y







EDUCATION



Immanuel Velikovsky was born in 1895 to a prosperous Jewish family, in Vitebsk, Russia (part of modern-day Belarus). The son of Shimon (Simon Yehiel) Velikovsky (1859 – 1937) and Beila Grodensky, he learned several languages as a child, was sent away to study at the Medvednikov Gymnasium in Moscow, where he performed well in Russian and mathematics. He graduated with a gold medal in 1913. Velikovsky then traveled in Europe and visited Palestine before briefly studying medicine at Montpellier in France and taking premedical courses at the University of Edinburgh. He returned to Russia before the outbreak of World War I, enrolled in the University of Moscow, and received a medical degree in 1921.





Velikovsky's career as a psychiatrist



From 1924 to 1939 Velikovsky lived in what was then Palestine, practicing medicine (both general practice and psychiatry), and also psychoanalysis (he had studied under Sigmund Freud's pupil, Wilhelm Stekel in Vienna).

During this time he had a dozen or so papers published in medical and psychoanalytic journals, including, in 1930,
the first paper to suggest epilepsy is characterized by abnormal encephalograms, now part of the routine diagnostic procedure, and papers in Freud's Imago, including a precocious analysis of Freud's own dreams.





Emigration to the USA and a career as an author



In 1939, with the prospect of war looming, Velikovsky travelled with his family to New York, intending to spend a sabbatical year researching for his book Oedipus & Akhnaton (which, inspired by Freud's Moses and Monotheism, explored the possibility that Pharaoh Akhenaton was the legendary Oedipus).

Freud had argued that Akhenaton, the supposedly monotheistic Egyptian pharaoh, was the source of the religious principles that Moses taught to the people of Israel in the desert. Freud's claim (and that of others before him) was based in part on the resemblance of Psalm 104 in the Bible to an Egyptian hymn discovered on the wall of the Tomb of Akhenaton's general, Ai, in Akhenaton's city of Akhetaten.

To disprove Freud's claim as well as to prove the Exodus as such, Velikovsky sought evidence for the Exodus in Egyptian documents. One such document was the Ipuwer Papyrus which reports events similar to several of the Biblical plagues.

Since conventional Egyptology dated the Ipuwer Papyrus much earlier than either the Biblical date for the Exodus (ca. 1500 – 1450 BCE) or the Exodus date accepted by many of those who accepted the conventional chronology
of Egypt (ca. 1250 BCE), Velikovsky had to revise or correct the conventional chronology.

Within weeks of his arrival in the United States, World War II began. Soon launching on a tangent from his original book project, Velikovsky began to develop the radical catastrophist cosmology and revised chronology theories for which he would become notorious (see below). For the remainder of the Second World War, now as a permanent resident of New York City, he continued to research and write about his ideas, searching for a means to disseminate them to academia and the public. He privately published two small Scripta Academica pamphlets summarising his theories in 1945 (Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History and Cosmos Without Gravitation).

His mailing a copy of the latter to astronomer Harlow Shapley in 1947 was to have particular repercussions.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on November 25, 2008, 06:39:01 pm



Velikovsky was a Zionist and, at the risk of sounding anti-Semitic (which I am NOT),

his whole outlook was coloured by his keen desire to see the creation of the State of

Israel, to which end caused him to try and glorify ('consciously or unconsciously') the

importance of Ancient Israel by any means possible.......


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Gwen Parker on November 25, 2008, 10:25:50 pm
I just can't see how any serious Atlantologist would place Atlantis anyplace other than the west, or the northwest.  Plato's directions and his geography are really clear!  It is a total insult to the Egyptians and the Greeks to think that they didn't know where Saudi Arabia or the Red Sea were, or that it could have been somewhere else on the coast of Africa.  The only African place that makes sense to me is Morocco, and that is because it is so far west it would have been easier for them to get confused as to it's breadth (not to mention the settlements there date to as old as 15,000 bc).


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on December 12, 2008, 02:28:05 pm
I just can't see how any serious Atlantologist would place Atlantis anyplace other than the west, or the northwest. 

( Far- WEST or N-W, of AMERICA  I suppose You meant ?)
Plato's directions and his geography are really clear!  It is a total insult to the Egyptians and the Greeks to think that they didn't know where Saudi Arabia or the Red Sea were, or that it could have been somewhere else on the coast of Africa. 
The only African place that makes sense to me is Morocco, and that is because it is so far west  as old as 15,000 bc).

Dear .....................GWEN,


PLATO is also clear that
 ' ATLANTIS ' is the WORLD in his time the " Better- KNOWN"- World
But Atlantis was the KNOWN- WORLD not the known- World.

KNOWN World was a synonym for ARABY
as " ORCHOMENE(= Golden-City gleaming with Golden temple rooftops like in Burma!)
Atlantis City(= Poseidonis Polis.) was the Capital of OIKUMENE =' KNOWN- World.

Orchomene fits the description of Plato too, so did the Capital of the
 Faeaceans Faecians or Phoenicians in Odysseus Odyssee
Plato's 'Atlantis' was also the Capital of the " KNOWN" World,

in ancient time before 250 bc, ARABY was known as the KNOWN-World or the WHITE wall of Egypt.
THUS the SEA surrounding the ( KNOWN-) World () of Atlantis.)
was the RED- SEA and NOT the Atlantic Ocean !( which got that name ca 1649 ad, by the Munster War-treaty.)

The WORLD- Sea became mixed-up with the Atlantic part of the OCEAN
The geoname Atlantic Sea was mixed up with the WORLD Ocean
the Latin compilers merged the TWO SEAS of World-Ocean and Atlantic-Sea/Ocean into WORLD- Ocean

Thus by a mere misunderdstanding of the ( Always corrupt" Textus- Receptus")
the Americans think of THEIR " FAR - WEST " land, instead of just the WESTERN- Part of the KNOWN-World
( of Araby !)

Do you grasp my drift now ? ?  :'( :o :'(

ARABY was the LAND of the MIDDLE
Atlantis was the CENTER of the KNOWN- World
in Poseidons Temple stood the World Pillar or the Axis of Middle Earth.

The SEA surrounding the Land of the MIDDLE would be called logically
the MIDDLE-land SEA or MARE MEDIA-Terran Nean
But because ARABY not SPAIN nor Marocco was Atlantis,

The Names Atlantic -Ocean and Mediaterranean Sea both
alluded to the RED- SEA or Sinus Arabicus.


Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 12 Dec. 2008  *( Tech-Univ.Delft, Holland.)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:32:38 am
Who discovered the Americas?
Zeeya Merali


Skull analysis suggests Australians got there first.

From the BA Festival of Science, Exeter, UK.

Traditional colonization theories hold that the first wave of humans to migrate to the Americas came from Siberia.


The first colonizers of the Americas came from Australia, according to archaeologists who have analysed skulls from 12,000-year-old skeletons found in California. The finding contradicts the traditional view that the first immigrants were the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

The skulls, taken from skeletal remains found in the desert of the Baja California peninsula in Mexico, are long and narrow. "This is completely different to the Native Americans' rounder skull shape," explains lead researcher Silvia Gonzalez from the Liverpool John Moores University, UK.

The skeletons are housed by the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City. They were embedded in volcanic deposits that deteriorated the structure of the bones and made them difficult to date accurately. But the skulls' intriguing form has driven researchers to work out how old they are.

Gonzalez and her team announced their first set of results on 6 September at the Exeter-based Festival of Science, run by the British Association for the Advancement of Science. They have managed to radiocarbon date 4 of the 27 skeletons. So far, the oldest, belonging to an individual called Peñon Woman III, is 12,700 years old.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040906/full/040906-5.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:35:29 am
Possible Atlantic crossings


Two eminent archeologists say that North America's first inhabitants may have been from Europe's Iberian Peninsula. This view is in contrast to the theory discussed elsewhere in this article that the first settlers came across a land Bridge from Asia some 13,500 years ago establishing a culture called "Clovis". The country's first inhabitants may have crossed the Atlantic some 18,000 years ago from the area which is now present day Spain, Portugal, and southwestern France. According to Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley, these pre-modern explorers called Solutreans are believed to have settled the Eastern Seaboard and over the next six mellenia their culture spread as far as the American deserts, the Canadian tundra, and perhaps even into South America. The researchers say the Solutreans may not have been the only paleo-explorers to reach the Western Hemisphere. Archaeological sites have been discovered in Pennsylvania, Virginia, South Carolina, as well as Monte Verde, Chile which had been settled 12,500 to 16,0000 B.C (When the first (?) Europeans went to South America in the 1500's, the indigenous people fought that they were the same people who built their ancient civilisation, they described them as a divine race of bearded Whites). The projectile points and other artifacts found at these sites are identical to those found on the other side of the Atlantic.

The Disappearance of the First Whites In America

The case for Whites in pre-Amerind North America therefore appears credible: all that must be answered is what happened to them. The evidence indicates that the first Whites in America were either killed in open warfare with Amerinds (who may have arrived simultaneously or afterwards); and that the remaining Whites were absorbed into what became the numerically dominant Amerind groupings. The existence of the Lineage X gene string supports the latter.

The first Whites in America therefore disappeared, along with their culture, through a process of racial integration, leaving behind only tantalising clues such as skeletons and other artifacts as evidence of their existence. For politically correct reasons these matters would never receive full-scale adoption in school text-books or the curriculum.

The British National Party, http://www.bnp.to]http://www.bnp.to



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.racerealist.com/lostwhiteamerica.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:37:12 am
The First Americans

New digs and old bones reveal an ancient land that was a mosaic of peoples, including Asians and Europeans. Now a debate rages: who got here first?
By Sharon Begley and Andrew Murr

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The standard story of the peopling of the Americas holds that wanderers from Northeast Asia fanned out across the Great Plains, into the Southwest and eventually the East to become the founding populations of today's Native Americans. Stone spear points found in Clovis, N.M., in the 1930s were dated at 11,000 years ago and hailed as evidence of the oldest human settlement in the New World. The story was so tidy that any skeletons that seemed to challenge this "Clovis model" were shoved back into the closet by the mandarins of American anthropology; any stone tools that seemed older than Clovis were dismissed as misdated. Clovis had American archeology in a stranglehold; James Adovasio of Mercyhurst College in Pennsylvania calls its defenders the "Clovis mafia."

The small band of hunter-gatherers made its summer camp on the riverbank, at the northern end of the region through which they followed the seasonal game. The location, 45 miles southeast of what is now Richmond, Va., was ideal: winds from the north kept the flying insects down. Some of the band would spend their days striking long, slender quartz flakes from stone cores; others made triangular and pentagonal spear points for the hunt. It was 15,050 years ago; the erstwhile "First Americans" would not make the trek across the Bering Strait for 3,500 more years.

Now there are too many skeletons in the closet to ignore. Pushed by a 1990 federal law that requires museums to return Native American remains to their tribes, scientists - called in to figure out who belongs to whom - have amassed a database of "craniometric profiles." Each of the 2,000 or so profiles consists of some 90 skull measurements, such as distance between the eyes, that indicate ancestry. For most skeletons, it has been pretty straightforward to tell a Hopi from a Crow. But some skulls stand out like pale-skinned, redheaded cousins at a family reunion of olive-skinned brunettes. The oldest American found so far, an 11,500-year-old skeleton from central Brazil, resembles southern Asians and Australians, anthropologist Walter Neves of the University of So Paulo reported last year. One skull from Lime Creek, Neb., and two from Minnesota - all 7,840 to 8,900 years old - resemble South Asians or Europeans. Some of the other misfits: Buhl Woman, found in 1989, died 10,600 years ago at the age of 19 or so. "She doesn't fit into any modern group," says anthropologist Richard Jantz of the University of Tennessee, "but is most similar to today's Polynesians."

Spirit Caveman bears less resemblance to American Indians than he does to any other ethnic group except African Bushmen. His face is not flattened or wide, his nose is not narrow - all traits of Amerindians. He "does not show affinity to any Amerindian sample [we used]," conclude Jantz and Douglas Owsley of the Smithsonian. Instead, with his long head, wide nose, forward face and strong chin, he resembles the Aboriginal Ainu of Japan or other East Asians.

Kennewick Man, found on July 28, 1996, by two college students watching a hydroplane race on the Columbia River in Washington, looks almost nothing like a Native American. His face is narrow, with a prominent nose, an upper jaw that juts out slightly and a long, narrow braincase. Although early reports described him as Caucasoid or even European (which led the Asatru Folk Assembly, followers of an ancient Nordic religion, to claim him), in fact the 8,000-year-old man most resembles a cross between the Ainu and the Polynesians.

America, it seems, was a mosaic of peoples and cultures even 11,000 years ago. Based on their study of 11 ancient skulls, conclude Owsley and Jantz in a paper to be published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, America was home to "at least three distinct groups ... None of the fossils [except for one] shows any particular affinity to modern Native Americans ... [Skull measurements] depart from contemporary American Indians, often in the direction of Europeans or South Asians."

One explanation for the lack of a family resemblance between the oldest Americans and today's Amerindians is that the original Americans might simply have changed in appearance over the generations. "You'd expect them to look different," says anthropologist David Hurst Thomas of the American Museum of Natural History. "They're separated by 9,000 years of evolution." A more radical explanation is that the First Americans - perhaps from Polynesia, perhaps from Europe [related Reuters story] - left no descendants. Whoever got here first, in other words, were not the ancestors of today's Pequot, Shoshone and other tribes. Instead, they were obliterated by later arrivals who made war or made love: killing them or mating with them. Kennewick Man, for instance, had a stone spear point in his hip. Its shape suggests it came from what scientists call the Cascade culture, people who were just moving into the area. "It may be a sign of ethnic conflict," says anthropologist James Chatters, who first inspected K Man.

The possibility that today's Native Americans are not the descendants of the original Americans is not going down easily. "If you tell the Native Americans that they weren't first," says Thomas, "you're asking for trouble." That conclusion, even if proved, has no direct legal ramifications for Native Americans' hard-won gains, such as the right to fish ancestral waters and the right to establish casinos. "But it may be just a step before legislation starts being rolled back," Thomas warns. Some Americans resent the newfound wealth of some tribes, and "if the discoveries make today's Native Americans just another Ellis Island group, it makes it hard for them to preserve their sovereignty."

Already, Native Americans are protesting this line of research. The Shoshone-Bannock demanded custody of Buhl Woman and reburied her. The Northern Paiute are asking that Spirit Caveman be reburied, and the Umatilla of Washington want Kennewick Man. "We know that our people have been part of this land since the beginning of time," said Armand Minthorn, a Umatilla religious leader, in a statement. "Scientists believe that because [Kennewick Man's] head measurement does not match ours, he is not Native American. Our elders have told us that Indian people did not always look the way we do today."

The determined band passed up the quartz in the nearby deposits, trekking beyond the Green River in what is now Wyoming and Utah, all the way to the northern Bighorn, 600 miles away. There they found the obsidian and quartz crystal they would fashion into stone points and flakes - and never use. Instead, they would bury their caches on a layer of compacted red ocher. Their neighbors had equally strong preferences, but for them the quest was not for exotic materials but for sources imbued with spiritual significance. Rejecting the local quartz, they climbed the peaks to chip out red jasper found at 9,000 feet and flake it into stone tools that they, too, would cache, unused. Stones that lay nearer their gods would make a fitting offering.

For years, no authority would accept any deviation from the party line that the First Americans were the Clovis people of 11,000 years ago. But in 1977, archeologist Tom Dillehay of the University of Kentucky began excavating a site deep in the Chilean hills called Monte Verde. There, some 30 hunter-gatherers lived beside a creek 35 miles inland of the Pacific until a rising peat bog pushed them out - and preserved the site like volcanic ash over Pompeii. The band lived in low, tentlike structures lashed together with cord and covered with bark and mastodon hide to keep out the rain, says Dillehay. Outside were work areas, and fire pits lined with clay. A hut set apart from the others may have served as either a paleohospital or a Stone Age Studio 54: inside, Dillehay found five chewed quid made of boldo leaves, which contain both an analgesic and a mild hallucinogen. Boldo was clearly prized: the nearest supply lay more than 100 miles north, so either someone made a long trek or arranged trades with distant inlanders. Belying the image of the original Americans as full-time big-game hunters, the Monte Verdeans ate a varied diet: freshwater mussels and crawfish, wild potato, fruits and nuts, small game like birds that they brought down with stones and the occasional mastodon that they felled with fire-hardened lances. But the paradigm killer was this: Monte Verde was inhabited 12,500 years ago - 1,000 years before the original Americans supposedly flocked across the Bering Strait.

For years archeologists dismissed Dillehay's claim. At scientific conferences, he recalls, "others would be introduced as doctor this and doctor that. I was always 'the guy who is excavating Monte Verde.' Some people wouldn't even shake my hand." Even worse, the Clovis model had such a stranglehold that scientists "would dig until they hit the Clovis level and just stop." Few looked for older bones and tools. Four or five possible pre-Clovis sites in South America were never reported because the scientists feared that doing so would wreck their reputations.

That changed two years ago, when archeology's pooh-bahs finally accepted that Monte Verde was indeed 12,500 years old. The floodgates opened. Sites once dismissed as misdated are being re-examined. At Meadowcroft Rockshelter in Avella, Pa., for instance, where for 26 years Adovasio has been excavating under an overhang that juts out from a rock face 43 feet above the ground, scientists are now reconsidering his claim that the charcoal, stone tools and woven material buried there are at least 14,000 and possibly 17,000 years old. At Saltville, in western Virginia, archeologists are studying what may be a Stone Age mastodon feast. Stone and bone tools (including an ivory-polisher), mastodon bones and fire-cracked rock along an ancient riverbank have been unearthed from a layer that may be 14,000 years old. Saltville has a distinguished pedigree: a friend sent Thomas Jefferson a mastodon tooth from the site in 1782.

Jefferson was curious enough about the prehistory of America that when he dispatched Lewis and Clark to survey the West, he asked them to look for signs of ancient settlements. He might have turned his curiosity closer to home. Archeologists led by Michael Johnson had stopped digging at Cactus Hill in Virginia when they found Clovis material, dated at 10,920 years old, three feet down. But with the theory of the First Americans shifting beneath their feet, they dug deeper - and came upon stone blades and cores (the rock chunks from which flakes are struck) in a layer 15,050 years old. "This looks like a good candidate for a Clovis precursor to me," says the Smithsonian's Stanford. Like Johnson, archeologist Albert Goodyear of the University of South Carolina had never felt much need to dig below the Clovis layer in his Topper site on the Savannah River. But last spring he and colleagues found, beneath the Clovis layer, stone blades and flakes by the score in layers three feet down - a depth that, he estimates, corresponds to more than 12,000 years. "This is pretty substantial evidence," says Goodyear, "that people were here long before we thought."

And they may have come from somewhere no scientists in their right mind would have considered only a few years ago: a French Connection. There are striking similarities between the stone tools attributed to the Clovis culture, in the Americas, and the stone tools attributed to the so-called Solutrean culture of France and the Iberian Peninsula. Both made beveled, crosshatched bone rods, notes archeologist Bruce Bradley. Both made idiosyncratic spear points of mammoth ivory. Both made triangular stone scrapers. Yes, two separate peoples might have invented the same thing, as David Meltzer of Southern Methodist University points out: "These similarities may represent finding the same answer to the same problem" of killing and butchering game. But there's a twist. "The oldest of these tools in America," says Bradley, "are in the East and Southeast, not the Southwest" - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent. And since glaciers did not retreat from America's midsection until 11,500 years ago, anyone inhabiting the Eastern Seaboard before then must have come from the East rather than the Bering Strait.

How? Crossing the open Atlantic would have posed a perhaps insurmountable challenge, even though people traveled in boats from southern Asia to Australia at least 40,000 years ago. "We don't give early people enough credit," says Stanford. "Yeah, they lived in caves - but they were pretty smart, too." Smart enough, perhaps, to have navigated along the ice sheet and seasonal pack ice that spanned the ocean from England to Nova Scotia. "They could have made it if they worked the glacier for seals and water birds," says Johnson. "They would have seen migratory birds flying west; they would have known there was land in that direction." Similarly, the Asians who reached America from the West may have been seafarers, too.

Deep in the craggy uplands 450 feet above the Amazon, the people of Caverna da Pedra Pintada look nothing like the stereotype of the First Americans as bison-fur-wearing big-game hunters. This band drew sustenance from the river and the forest, dining on turtles, frogs, snakes, fish and fresh-water mussels, as well as Brazil nuts and palm nuts. And they did more. The cave floor is splattered with gobs of red and yellow iron-based paint, dripped 11,000 years ago. The Stone Age artists created exuberant scenes of snakes and other animals and even handprints - designs? signatures? - including children's.

"We are rewriting the textbooks on the First Americans," says Stanford. The new edition will show that "the peopling of the Americas was never as simple as simple-minded paradigms said." Instead, it will tell of an America that beckoned to far-flung people long before the Mayflower or the Santa Maria or the Viking ships, of an unknown continent so alluring that men and women endowed with a technology no more sophisticated than sharp rocks braved Siberian tundra and Atlantic ice packs to get here. It is still the New World. But it is thousands of years older than we thought - home to settlers so diverse that it was, even millenniums ago, the world's melting pot.

Copyright © Newsweek, April 26, 1999
http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/firstamer.html




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:38:25 am
(http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/mainhed.gif)

Physical Features of Skulls Older than 8,000 Years From the Americas


Cheekbones are not pronounced.
Long skull (measured front to back).

Rather prominent noses with high bridges.

Narrow faces with deeper contours.

No shovelling on the incisors.

Little or no facial prognathism (facial forwardness).

Small bilobed or bifurcate chin



When taken as a whole, the skulls of the very ancient inhabitants of the Americas display features more typical of what some scientists call "Caucasoid" traits than "Mongoloid" traits. But by "Caucasoid" scientists do NOT mean they are "Caucasian" in the sense of "white" people today. Rather, they are using the term "Caucasoid" to refer to a branch of ancient, but anatomically modern, peoples who were the ancestors of several branches of historically known people: Europeans, southwest Asians, Indians from the subcontinent of India, west-central Asians, and the Ainu of Japan.

By selecting from the list below you can read a little bit about several of the ancient Americans, as well as see reconstructions of what some of them may have looked like. The reconstructions were carried out by forensic anthropologists using methods developed to aid police and humanitarian groups in various world areas to flesh out human skeletal remains. While such matters as skin, hair, and eye color, or the exact number and place of facial wrinkles is more a matter of intuition than science, the actual fleshing out of the skulls has, over time, been shown to be highly accurate.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/amerskeletons.html



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:42:25 am
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4181VWMW3YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Lost World : Rewriting Prehistory---How New Science Is Tracing America's Ice Age Mariners (Hardcover)
by Tom Koppel (Author) "WATCH YOUR HEAD," said paleontologist Tim Heaton, ducking as he led the way down into the fissure in the steep rock face, leaving the sunshine..."

From Publishers Weekly


How and when did humans first come to North America? In attempting to answer this fascinating question, journalist Koppel, who has won awards from the Canadian Archaeological Association, takes a three-pronged approach; in doing so, he spreads himself too thin. The first prong is an attempt to demonstrate that humans came to America at least a couple of thousand years earlier than is commonly accepted. Additionally, he asserts that, rather than migrating overland and across the frozen Bering Strait, as is generally believed, the first Americans were seafarers who migrated up the coast of Siberia and then down the coast of the Americas. Although much of Koppel's material is interesting, the presentation is rather one-sided; the perspective of critics of this theory is almost totally absent. Koppel's second prong is to focus on some maverick scientists proffering this theory and how they work. Since many of the archeological sites likely to shed light on their hypotheses are underwater, the logistics of gathering data are quite complicated. Yet the detail offered by the author is extraneous, and he doesn't give enough insight into the principals. Koppel's third prong is even less successful. He inserts himself into the narrative, attempting to create an adventure story of how he went about gathering information for the book. Unfortunately, there isn't enough adventure, and readers learn instead that Koppel had "Baron of Beef, au jus" for lunch one day while some of his fellow journalists were forced to eat cheese-and-sprout sandwiches. As with lunch, Koppel doesn't provide enough meat to make this a satisfying read.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:43:05 am
The Mid-Atlantic Ridge – Atlantis revisited

(Detail from the world topografic map at http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov.)

As regards our purpose: the effective possibility of finding Atlantis, the last expedition in the mentioned area of the Atlantic Ocean saw an American team searching the MAR in the period November 14 – December 14, 2000. Responsible for the team were the professors Donna Blackman (Scripps Institute of Oceanography), Jeff Karson (University of Washington) and Deborah Kelley (Duke University), and other experts from a total of eight different American universities participated in the project. The "R/V Atlantis" was the research ship provided by the US Academic Navy – and the aim of the expedition was to study the mineralogical composition as well as the topographical evolution of the so-called "Atlantis Massif".

The instrument that would allow the experts to study the ridge at close quarters, was "Alvin", a small bathyscaphe capable of diving to great depths and equipped with a mechanical arm for the removal of rock samples. Furthermore, sophisticated sonar and video instruments on the "R/V Atlantis" would contribute to illuminating the results of the research from other angles.

The choice of the area where the research would be concentrated was not casual. Probably previous cartographic studies of images elaborated by satellites have helped the experts select an area where they might obtain the results they were aiming at.

This research area, however, does not correspond entirely with the area indicated in the above NASA map (fig. 1), though perhaps except for the extreme north-eastern area of the chosen spot. The geographical location of the area is c. 30 degrees north. The MAR expedition’s web-site, http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/mar/ , explains the purpose of the same:

"The unusual thing about the area under study is a large mountain, called the Atlantis Massif, just west of the Mid-Atlantic spreading center at 30°N. The peak of the mountain is 1,700 m (5,000') higherthan the usual spreading ridge crest. The width of the mountain is 4-6 times greater than that of most abyssal hills. It is clear that this mountain is a new addition to Earth's crust since it is part of very young and newly created seafloor. The mission is to find out why and how it formed. What forces are responsible for the great height to which rock has been uplifted at this site? What caused a change in the usual style of oceanic crustal formation? When might this area return to its normal state? These are the many questions the scientists seek to answer."

If the American research team had decided to concentrate their studies in an area located more north-easternly of the Atlantis Massif, they might have discovered other things – perhaps also of an archaeological nature – but the mentioned scientific expedition of course clearly states that their main interests concerned the geological features of the MAR. From the maps of the "National Geophysic Data Center" (NGDC: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov ) it is possible to observe very clearly that a little further towards north-east, a much more interesting relief is located, from an archaeological point of view – it is in fact an area where the attempted recovery of objects might offer evidence of a submerged civilization. Let us observe the maps which are available on the Internet at the NGDC-site (the images are small details of much larger maps, which have not been manipulated in any way. The maps have been developed by the NGDC for didactic and scientific purposes.)

In the right (eastern) part of this image we find the Iberian Peninsula, Gibraltar, and part of the north-west African coast. The Spanish and Portuguese islands off the African coast may be observed – and further to the left we see a section of the mid-atlantic ridge. The area outlined by the while oval corresponds to an area which probably represents the reliefs of a huge island which now lies below the surface of the Atlantic Ocean. This area also includes the Azores.

The reliefs which are so clearly observed in the above image are even clearer in a splendid image of the entire planet, where the factor of the Earth’s curvature logically improves the visual prospective  http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/relief_slides2.html )

It has been possible to study the underwater mountain ranges only since 1973 – in fact, ever since the beginning of the space age the various satellites have been providing spectacular images which indicate without any doubt hitherto unknown details concerning the Earth’s crust and the submarine reliefs. Here, we clearly see a submerged shape similar to a peninsula which points in south-west direction, towards the northern coasts of South America. The same reliefs that we find schematically sketched in the first map of this article, the NASA map, are more clearly visible, here.

It seems natural to ask, if so many archaeologists are in search of a scoop - why have none of them ever gone directly in this place, to study the mid-atlantic ridge in a place where aerial images show such an evident island/peninsula shape?

In an attempt to explain this ‘lack of interest’ (or, granted, maybe we should say, ‘lack of funds’?), admittedly we only have very few references to point to, in order to feel certain that an expedition with the aim of finding Atlantis would yield the results hoped for. Besides Plato’s writings which have already been thoroughly discussed by many persons and organisations on the Internet, we have only one alternative source that offers any conclusive material on Atlantis. However, to compensate for its ‘solitude’, this source directly states the geographical coordinates of the lost island of Atlantis.

The shape of the island can reasonably well be compared to a diagonally elongated, inverted Latin "S" – the upper curve at the right, and the lower at the right. The island’s northernmost point extended to about latitude 40° North, longitude 34° West. The island extended south to about latitude 25 ½ ° North, and west to longitude 47° West, latitude 27 ½ ° North, and eastward to about longitude 28° West. …"

- and the detailed information to establish Atlantis’ exact location continue. On the base of this information we may sketch the following map (the shape of the island is only approximate):

In the book "Toward the Light" we furthermore find the information that if we trace an imaginary line from the English town of Plymouth to the centre of the island of Trinidad close to the South American coast, such a line would cut through the length of the submerged island and touch its easternmost and southernmost points. The largest part of the island would lie west of this line.

What would the oceanographers/archaeologists find if they actually decided to research the mentioned area, with bathyscaphs equipped with cameras, sophisticated sonars, etc.?
**********************

Other links for those who want to learn more about the geological nature of ocean floor of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge – the experts’ comments may be found at the following URLs:

· From "Science for Everyone", a ‘field study’ of the MAR containing interesting data on the eruptive processes and the tectonic movements typical of the area: http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/eosdksmith.html 

· Exceptional images at: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minrelief.html 
The entire site http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov displays various types of geographical maps. A web site worth visiting.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.altrementi.com/english/literary/mid-atl_ridge.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:44:17 am
"Divers find traces
of ancient Americans
13,000-year-old bones reveal archaeological frontier"

By JOHN RICE
Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:32 p.m. ET Sept. 9, 2004


Most coastal settlements by early Americans now lie deep beneath the sea, which during the Ice Age was hundreds of feet lower than now.

Researchers at the international "Early Man in America" seminar here also reported other ancient finds — including a California bone that is a rival for the title of the oldest in the Americas.

The discoveries fall close to the start of the time that traditional theories say a so-called Clovis culture could have moved from Asia to Alaska over a temporary land corridor that began to open about 13,500 years ago.

Many academics say new discoveries, especially in South America, prove that the Clovis people found existing inhabitants, who may have arrived by hopscotching past the northern ice fields in small boats.

Skeletal ‘treasure’
Arturo Gonzalez said his team discovered at least three skeletons in caves along the Caribbean coast of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula in 2001 and 2002. Photos showed two remarkably well-preserved.

"It's something that I had been dreaming of for many years," said Gonzalez, 39, who has combined diving and research since he was a teenager. "To find a person who had walked those caves was like a treasure."

Gonzalez said the bones must date from before the time that waters gradually seeped through the caves 8,000 to 9,000 years ago, as Ice Age glaciers melted and sea level rose by about 400 feet (120 meters) worldwide.

Tests on charcoal found beside one female skeleton would place it at least 10,000 years ago. An expert at the University of California, Riverside, dated it as 11,670 radiocarbon years old — which would translate to well over 13,000 calendar years.

Debating the age
If confirmed, "that would be the oldest" radiocarbon date in the Americas obtained from a human bone, said archaeology textbook author Stuart Fiedel.

Fiedel, a defender of the "Clovis first" school, said the oldest estimate for the cave find still fits the Clovis time frame, though narrowly.

Larry Murphy, chief of the Submerged Resources Center for the U.S. National Park Service, said in a telephone interview that the Mexican exploration was "one of the first systematic studies of human materials associated with a submarine cave."

The discovery helps prove that humans inhabited the Yucatan at least 5,000 years before the famed Maya culture began building monuments at sites such as nearby Tulum.

Gonzalez said the skeleton did not appear to be Mayan, but with no tools yet found, almost nothing is known of those first inhabitants.

Convincing the skeptics
Gonzalez said cave divers had sometimes mentioned seeing skeletons, and he persuaded skeptical officials to finance a survey of the water holes that dot the Yucatan, a limestone shelf.

Extensive, flooded caves wind off from some of those holes. Many were above ground during the Ice Age, and Gonzalez speculated people may have used them as paths down to fresh water.

Gonzalez said the oldest find was made 404 yards (123 meters) into a cave, more than 65 feet (20 meters) below sea level, during expeditions that can be extremely dangerous.

It took repeated trips to record the sites and excavate the bones, which then required two years of preservation.

Team co-director Carmen Rojas said the divers had 40 minutes to wind their way through the cave to the site, 20 minutes to work there and 40 minutes to swim back, followed by 20 to 60 minutes of decompression time.

"You train five years for those 20 minutes," she said.

Further discoveries
Meanwhile, John Johnson of the University of California, Santa Barbara, said an elaborate restudy of a woman's femur found on Santa Rosa Island in California's Channel Islands established a calendar-year age of 13,200 to 13,500 years. It had been calculated at about 1,000 years less when found in 1959.

Both discoveries would be significantly older than the skeleton known as Kennewick Man — 9,300-year-old remains found by teenagers along a Washington state riverbank in 1996.

Until now, the Americas have produced only 25 bones or skeletons dated as more than 8,000 years old, said Silvia Gonzalez of John Moores University in Liverpool, England. But she told the conference that she would soon publish a paper establishing that humans occupied a site near Puebla east of Mexico City 21,000 to 28,000 years ago.

--------------------------------------------



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:46:25 am
Signs of an earlier American

By Peter N. Spotts | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor


Al Goodyear is holding his breath in anticipation. Within days, the affable archaeologist expects to read the results of lab tests indicating that stone tools he recently found in South Carolina are 25,000 years old - or older.
 
Such results would be explosive. They would imply that humans lived on this continent before the last ice age, far earlier than previously believed. Even if the dates came in younger than 25,000 years old, researchers say, the find would add to the mounting body of evidence that humans trod North and South America at least 2,000 years before the earliest-known inhabitants, known as the Clovis culture.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:47:10 am
Dr. Goodyear's efforts are among the latest from a growing group of archaeologists and anthropologists who have become emboldened to buck conventional wisdom and probe far deeper into the hemisphere's past than many of their predecessors did. What they are finding not only could rewrite old chapters in the history of two continents, it could write new ones.
 

"With all these new discoveries, it's almost a rebirth of excitement in the field. All sorts of new ideas are coming forward about migration routes and timing of arrival," says Michael Waters, a geoarchaeologist at Texas A&M University who is involved in several pre-Clovis digs around the United States. "You still have to be careful. Every claim of pre-Clovis occupation needs to be looked at quite carefully."

And they are. When stunning discoveries surface in North America's paleolithic past, they can ignite debates conducted with all the gentility of the Stanley Cup finals - as Goodyear knows.

"When these dates come back, I'll be hiding in a coal mine. I've already got a little Groucho Marx disguise I'm going to put on," quips the University of South Carolina scientist, who along with colleagues is working what's called the Topper site in Allendale County, S.C., along the Savannah River.

For decades, the Clovis culture has held sway as the oldest in the New World. Evidence for this group's presence was first unearthed in 1936 near Clovis, N.M. A second site that emerged in Arizona in 1959, and others since. A uniquely fluted spear point became the culture's icon. Radiocarbon dating at Clovis sites so far has bracketed their presence from roughly 11,200 to around 10,800 radiocarbon years ago. (Archaeologists prefer expressing dates in radiocarbon years because converting to modern calendar years becomes tricky beyond a certain age threshold.)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:48:17 am
(http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0923/csmimg/p14a.jpg)

DIGGING DEEPER: At the Topper site in South Carolina, artifacts have been found more than six feet below the level of the Clovis, thought to be the first Americans.
DARYL P. MILLER/

Searching for Big Foot


As evidence for the Clovis culture's presence cropped up throughout the continent and the sites became the subject of intense study, the notion that Clovis people were the oldest immigrants to the Western Hemisphere became firmly entrenched. Although some research teams periodically claimed to have found older sites, their evidence was shaky or later proved to have a less radical explanation. To claim a pre-Clovis find was akin to claiming to spot Big Foot.

Researchers often hesitated "to dig below the Clovis horizon for fear of ridicule," Dr. Waters says.

By many accounts, the turning point came seven years ago when anthropologist Tom Dillehay published the second of two encyclopedic volumes of results from a site in southern Chile known as Monte Verde. His team's evidence pointed to a human presence there 13,000 years ago. Other sites began to appear with evidence for pre-Clovis occupation that many saw as more credible than evidence from earlier efforts.

One of these sites, known as Mud Lake, sits near Kenosha, Wis. It was discovered by accident in January 1936, the same year as the first find of a Clovis point, when a Works Progress Administration crew was digging a drainage ditch and unearthed most of a foreleg from a juvenile mammoth. Turned over to the Kenosha Historical Society, it sat there until 1990, when an amateur archaeologist noted cut marks on the bones. Bones from nearby sites, known as the Fenske and Shaefer sites, showed similar markings. In 1992 and 1993, researchers excavated Shaefer and found bones with cut marks on them and stone tools underneath a pelvis bone. Radiocarbon dates on the bones and on plant material at the same level of the dig ranged from 12,500 to 12,300 years ago, nudging them beyond the Clovis time scale.

Dates from the Mud Lake bone were more stunning, says Dan Joyce, senior curator at the Kenosha Public Museum. Purported hunters slew the mammoth 13,450 years ago. He remains cautious about the presence of hunters. Cut marks are suggestive, but not conclusive. This past August, he and his team searched for the rest of their mammoth. But so far it has remained elusive enough to earn the beast the sobriquet Waldo, after the children's "Where's Waldo?" series.

While Dr. Joyce and his colleagues were planning their hunt for Waldo, Goodyear was taking a deeper look at Topper, a site he had been studying for 20 years. An adherent to the Clovis-first idea, he began to rethink his position after reading a site report from Cactus Hill, a pre-Clovis site in Virginia, in 1998.





Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:48:33 am
His subsequent work at Topper uncovered what looked to be industrial-scale toolmaking well below the level at which Clovis artifacts were found. With no organic material available to radiocarbon-date the level, the team had to use a different technique that stunned them with date estimates of 16,000 to 20,000 years ago.

In May, he took his crew back to Topper for another, deeper look. They found what they interpret as tools in a layer roughly two meters (6.5 feet) below their earlier pre-Clovis finds. The soils and geology suggest that the artifacts are several thousand years older, he says. But nothing beats radiocarbon dates. Fortuitously, they found a sample of wood charcoal to derive three radiocarbon dates.

"I'd be very surprised if they're less than 25,000 years old, but I'm preparing myself mentally for the possibility that they could be a lot older," perhaps as old as 30,000 or 40,000 years, he says.

Such finds raise intriguing questions. Clovis groups were thought to have crossed a broad land bridge across the Bering Strait, hiking through breaks in the glaciers to what is now the lower 48. But if people lived on the continent at least 2,000 years earlier, they would have arrived at a time when the glaciers were impassable. This has led some to argue for a sea route along the land bridge and then the western coastline. Others suggest some may have come from Australia or the Iberian peninsula.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:50:16 am
But is it civilization?


Not everyone is convinced by the evidence so far for pre-Clovis finds, although some doubters don't rule out the possibility that some groups where here earlier.

"The tools people find are not self-evidently hunting or butchering tools" in the way Clovis artifacts are, says Stuart Fiedel, an archaeologist with the Louis Berger Group in Washington, D.C.

Like Vikings making landfall in North America before any other modern European group, pre-Clovis sites don't seem to represent the first long-term colonization of the Western Hemisphere, he says. Interest in Clovis grew out of their apparent role as a continent-wide colonizing population and a key to the origins of the native Americans Europeans encountered after they arrived.

But others see potentially deeper insights coming from pre-Clovis finds.

"This could help us get a better handle on the amount of genetic variability we see in the descendants of these populations," says David Meltzer, an archaeologist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. It also could reset the clock for the development of civilizations in the New World.

(http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0923/csmimg/p14b.jpg)
The First Americans: By land or by sea? Researchers have put forth at least four explanations for how people first came to the Americas. Recent discoveries suggest humans came to the Americas at least 10,000 years earlier than has been thought hitherto, researchers say. That means they must have come by sea rather than by land across the Bering Strait.
Taken from map by Joe LeMonnier / Lynda D'Amico / SCOTT WALLACE - STAFF

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0923/p13s01-stgn.html

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=4


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:51:36 am
Here is an article I promised a long time ago. It has to do with the bones of ancient mastadons and mammoths washing up along the coasts of the Atlantic. These bones come from the ocean floor along the coastline of the Carolinas. Follow the link and the article has some pictures. These same bones have also been seen in the Azores, but I'm still looking for those specific pictures.

This article comes from the Regional Review in1939, incidentally:

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b.htm



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:52:55 am
(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/notes.jpg)

Volume III - No. 3

 
September, 1939


(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b1.jpg)

In the ordinary course of events, the ocean is the great receiver ---- the world's greatest collector. It collects the sediments that are eroded from the land by streams, winds, waves and glaciers. As the earth's most populous burial ground, it receives the shells and bodies of countless organisms that swim in it or drift upon its surface. It also, upon occasion, receives the bodies of animals that lived upon the land. During times of Widespread upheaval many or these things are restored to the land, but only rarely does the ocean itself become an active agent in a process of giving back to the land the bones of animals that once roamed upon it. It is our purpose here to describe such a case. At Edisto Beach State Park in South Carolina the bones and teeth of long-extinct animals --- animals that lived upon the land in the Ice Age --- are being excavated from the ocean floor and washed ashore by storm waves of the modern Atlantic.

(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b2.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:55:30 am
(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b3.jpg) There is, of course, no actual migration as in the fanciful sketch which appears on this page, but the event nevertheless has some of the elements of an anachronism. Ancient animals are being washed ashore by the sea which, contrary to its custom, is acting as the giver rather than the receiver. If this situation is not anachronistic it certainly is paradoxical --- a reversal of a normal process of nature. The cavalcade of animals that comes piecemeal to the shores of Edisto includes beasts that seem strangely un-American. It includes elephants --- Woolly Mammoths and Mastodons --- Ground Sloths, Giant Beavers, Tapirs, Giant Armadillos, Royal Bison. It includes horses that lived and died here long before the Spaniards brought the first of our present stock in the early 16th century. But these venerable inhabitants of South Carolina are not un-American. It is we who are the newcomers!  Associated with the forms mentioned above are others that are more familiar, such as the teeth of bears, antlers of elk and deer, and plates of large land turtles together with the bones of still other animals that lived in the sea. In this last group are the globular ear bones of whales, curved ribs of sea cows that were the ancestors of the rare individuals still living along the coast of southern Florida, plates of alligator and marine turtles, along with teeth of sharks and spines of rays that lived in periods before the Ice Age. During the summer of 1937 Student Technician Hugh M. Rutledge, with the help of volunteers from the CCC camp, collected more than 1,500 vertebrate fossils of which he identified more than 200. The following summer Student Technician Rudolph A. Jaworski added nearly a thousand specimens to the collection. We may well pause and wonder. How did such a motley crew of early Americans find their way into a common graveyard?

(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b4.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:56:13 am
Before we can arrive at a satisfactory answer to this question we shall have to learn a little more about the existing situation at Edisto Beach. In picturing the ocean at Edisto as a giver we were being overly generous with that relentless foe of the land. Edisto lies in a broad reentrant in the coast line --- an arc, concave landward, that extends 180 miles from Charleston to the Florida boundary. In this arc today at Edisto, the waves are eating into the land at the measured rate of 15 feet a year, and there is clear evidence to indicate that the process has been going on for a long time.

(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b5.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:56:44 am
On the present beach at Edisto a bed of green mud outcrops close to low tide level. During his early investigations in the area Mr. Rutledge discovered bones in this layer of mud. Believing the bones to be fossil he carefully excavated them, pleased with the prospect of obtaining a complete skeleton. To his dismay the skeleton proved to be that of a very modern cow! Since the cow could not have become buried in the mud at the present site of outcrop, this strange occurrence indicates that what is now the beach was once marsh land and that the sea has moved inland a considerable distance within historic times. The ocean exacts a stiff price for our collection of old bones!

A glance at a Hydrographic Chart gives us additional information of interest. The sea off Edisto is very shallow, the "continental shelf" being about 70 miles wide. All the sea bottom within five miles of shore is less than 40 feet deep. If sea level were to be lowered 150 feet the shore would be extended 55 miles! This point is significant and will be referred to later. From actual observations we know little about the materials that form the sea floor but we do know that the flat strip of country forming the present coast is underlain by marine deposits of the Ice Age. From this strip --- known as the Pamlico Terrace --- marine shells have been collected to levels 12 feet above low tide. This assemblage includes a large number of species that live today only in warmer latitudes.1 We shall show later that this fact is not extraordinary, for the shells lived during an inter-glacial epoch when the sea stood higher and the climate was warmer.

 
We do not know the exact thickness of the Ice Age deposits at Edisto Beach but the fossiliferous portion is probably only a few feet thick and probably lies close to sea level. At Coffin Point 10 miles to the southwest, where the Service's core drill put down an exploratory well, we entered sediments at a depth of 72 feet that appeared to be definitely older than the Ice Age. This gives us at least a maximum figure for this general area and one that compares favorably with other drilling records. The deposits of the Ice Age consist of beds of dark mud with some sand and shell. The vertebrate fossils are impregnated with mineral matter and their outer surfaces are stained nearly black by organic material. Some of the larger ones come ashore encrusted with sand and recent marine shells, indicating that they have lain exposed on the sea bottom for some time before being cast upon the beach.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:57:09 am
(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b6.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:57:29 am
Before continuing our description of the process of excavation let us consider the conditions that existed in the world during the Ice Age. In that period tremendous quantities of water were taken out of the oceans and locked up on the land in the form of glacial ice. About one-sixth of all the lands now in existence were blanketed with ice. About one-half of North America was covered. The ice extended from Alaska to Greenland and southward to the Ohio and Missouri Rivers. South Carolina was not glaciated but it felt the effects in a somewhat cooler climate and in the fact that the sea was lowered at least 150 feet, possibly much more. This latter, as previously mentioned, greatly extended the land area to the southeast. From what is now the coast of South Carolina a broad flat extended seaward for more than 50 miles. This area lay close to sea level and parts of it doubtless were swampy traps for unwary animals, as are parts of the Coastal Plain today.

We should mention at this point there was not just one epoch of glaciation --- there were four. These cold epochs were separated by warmer inter-glacial epochs. During these times the ice melted, the glaciers retreated northward and sea level came back to normal. In South Carolina during each warm epoch the sea rose to cover the shelf that had been exposed during the preceding glacial stage. Sea animals flourished and shell beds were formed. As the glaciers re-advanced the sea retreated and the land animals that lived along the margin of the glaciers retreated southward ahead of the invading ice. They inhabited parts of the newly exposed land and left their bones to mingle with those of sea animals. These changes took place slowly, of course, and it is estimated that the entire Ice Age (not counting the present epoch, which may be just another inter-glacial stage) occupied a span of 2,000,000 years.

The fact that the Edisto deposits that now are being excavated contain the remains of bison and bears --- animals that apparently did not migrate into America until the closing stages of the Ice Age --- suggests that our deposit is fairly young. It is difficult to determine the exact age because the fauna that is being washed up is considerably mixed. The waves may have access to two or more thin deposits of different ages. Some of the sharks' teeth belong to species that antedate the Ice Age but these teeth are resistant objects that may have been reworked --- mixed up with Ice Age deposits during the Ice Age. Likewise, it is known that some of the typical Ice Age mammals that are now extinct -- American horses, the Giant Sloth, Mastodon, and Woolly Mammoth --- persisted in North America until a few thousand years ago. These particular animals were still in existence following the retreat of the last glacier and some, at least, after the arrival of the earliest human beings on this continent. You may ask, is it, then, not possible that the Edisto waves may uncover human artifacts or actual skeletal remains? It is possible but very unlikely.

We shall not attempt in this brief account to describe the appearance or the habits of all of South Carolina's numerous extinct animals but Mr. Kiener has sketched some of the commoner ones, basing his sketches on well known restorations. Only bones and teeth and plates are found at Edisto and Irving Gladstein has kindly photographed a number of these. Of particular interest are the tiny milk teeth of the elephants2 --- one from the browzing mastodon, the other from the mammoth, a grazing animal. Bones of the former have been found associated with human artifacts in Florida; frozen bodies of the latter have been recovered in arctic regions. The Giant Sloth that lived in the Edisto region bore little resemblance to his modern tree-dwelling relative. The Ice Age sloth was a ground-dweller that stood erect to pull down branches with its claws. It probably lumbered awkwardly on all-fours, walking on the outer edges of its feet. Some of the horses were as large as those living today.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:58:29 am
Many believe that the fossils that are being washed up at Edisto are brought to the coast by streams, but to the writer it seems unlikely that such is the case. Nearby streams, such as South Edisto River, are sluggish and carry only fine sediment. It seems doubtful that they could bring down large heavy bones even if aided by tidal currents. Mr. Rutledge, who probably knows the area better than anyone, reported that the largest bone that he found weighed close to 40 pounds. The writer weighed the largest one now in the Edisto Museum --- a fragment of elephant bone --- and found that it weighed 20-1/4 pounds. Mr. Jaworski, who collected 967 specimens, reported that they were most abundant at high tide mark on the Edisto front beach and in the area immediately to the north east. Fossils were comparatively rare on Bay Point and on the beach fronting South Edisto River. Mr. Jaworski also pointed out that bone fragments less than 2/3 inches long were rare. In the writer's opinion, the waves at Edisto are eating into an unusually rich concentration of vertebrate remains buried just below sea level. In this connection it is interesting to note that the nearby Hunting Island beach, which, like Edisto, is receding rapidly landward, has not yielded a single fossil although it has been searched carefully.

(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b7.jpg)

(1) H. G. Richards, "Fauna of the Pleistocene Pamlico Formation of the Southern Atlantic Coastal Plain." Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 47, pp. 1638, 1640, 1936.

(2) My identification of these teeth has been verified by Dr. C. L. Gazin of the United States National Museum.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 04:59:11 am
(http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/regional_review/vol3-3b.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on December 27, 2008, 06:44:52 am

Dear.............BIANCA,

Dr Velikovsky was a psychiatrist but turned geologist in Princeton New-Yersy 1940
He got a clear INSIGHT that there appeared to be 500 non-existing yrs in the Standard-Egyptian Chronology

He contributed this to the use of book-scrole-Chapters,  which were accidentally interchanged, thus he concluded
that between year 1500 bc and year 1.000 bc there was a socalled" Dark Period " corresponding to an
equalling a simmilar " Dark-Period "in Greek continental history. Which mentioned unknown kings in unlocated cities

His discovery was like an earthquake change under the shakey foundation of Egyptian Timedating
If you want to beat a Dog a stick is soon found so he was acqused of of beiing everything but a( Professional-)Egyptologist.

Emillio- ESPEDICATO is just an italian  mathematicien yet he too dabbles in catastophic meteor-impacts on Earth
He reviewed that the Meteor called " PHAETHON " fell to Earth and caused the Deluge that submerged Atlantis,
yet he too is not a "professional" geologist but nobody accused him of wanting to" Change " ancient egyptian-history.

The ATLANTOii were originally the MINYERS from ORCHOMENOS, also called MEN; MINNAii; MINEANS; MINOANS; & MINYERS
MINERA or MITTANI was the LAND of DAN; the LAND of AD called SIN-Aii or AAU; PUNT / BUTHO; PUT & LUT in the Bible.

ATLANTIS is a Latin MISNOMER for Greek:" ATHETA" meaning " Land of Ad " coerrectly retranscribed into latin as ATLANTIS.
Atlantis doesn't exist but " Ad-Land " does in Greek called ATHE : in context:" White-Elephant Land "
Araby - FoELIX, too means(In context.)" white Holi-Elephant land" shortened to just " HOLI- LAND" in the Bible.

The White Elephant was the only God of Atlantis but when the assyrian God-King Salmanasser-3 capturesd ADEN in 855 bc
he demonised Atlantis and had the 1.000 white Eelphants( Called:" Pillars of Ad-Irem " slaughtered as tyhe ElephantkillerGod"SHIVA"

Heracles lived before Atlantis was submerged for a second time and was made a Vasal-King of Atlantis by God-King Salmanasser-3
Heracles was actually the Egyptian King HOREMHEB and ACHNATON was his Brother whom he hated or had to make taboo too.
On a black Stele of Salmanasser-3 Heracles-Horemheb-JEHU is shown as petty King in Israel(= another name for Atlantis.) :'( :o :'(

Velikovsky was a Zionist and, at the risk of sounding anti-Semitic (which I am NOT),

his whole outlook was coloured by his keen desire to see the creation of the State of

Israel, to which end caused him to try and glorify ('consciously or unconsciously') the

importance of Ancient Israel by any means possible.......


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on December 27, 2008, 07:02:22 am
DEAR........................DHILL,

ELEPHANTS lived at any seashore site,
on the Amazone many Elephant-skeletons were found in it's embankments
but the Amazone river used to be a vast inland Sea

So to state the obvious that Elephants occupied America before humans did is an open statement
because land and water were interchanged during the iCE- AGE

My Axioma for Sealevel change is the following:

From : 10.000 until 855 bc a rise of 100=Hundred-Mtrs.

From : - 855   untill 755 bc a rise of 50= Fifty-meters !

This means that the Last Sea-level-rise that Atlantis experienced was 50 meters !

Thus the rivers that transported sediments before 855 bc were 50 meters LOWER than today !
:o

ATLANTIS was not sub but IMMERSED by not ONE but TWO Tsunamies
who's DATEs corresponds to the Titano-Machia(= 1055 bc.)
and the Giganto- Machia (= 855 bc.)

The MOON caused these Deluges every 50 Years
 But in Mythology it is called the PHENIX- Bird
which returns to Egypt every 500 years ,
Which is clearly an exagerated overstatement ! :'( :o :'(

The many Meteoric-impact sites at the SOUTH - CAROLINAS  BAY
are result of Mars-Debris caught by the MOON and deposited during
it's erratic orbits around Earth as the DRUNKEN- Moon".

Location of Atlantis:
 it was the CAPITAL of the KNOWN- world of Araby which is called ADEN today.
Thus the SEA of ATLAS was the GULF of ADEN. and the OCEAN was the Indian.O
Though encircling the Earth or KNOWN- World it was the RED- SEA
WORLD- Ocean and ATLAS Sea became confused or rather 'amalgamated' by the Roman Compilers !

Sincerely " BlueHue "dd 27-Dec.2008

Before continuing our description of the process of excavation let us consider the conditions that existed in the world during the Ice Age. In that period tremendous quantities of water were taken out of the oceans and locked up on the land in the form of glacial ice. About one-sixth of all the lands now in existence were blanketed with ice.From what is now the coast of South Carolina a broad flat extended seaward for more than 50 miles. This area lay close to sea level and parts of it doubtless were swampy traps for unwary animals, as are parts of the Coastal Plain today.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:08:18 pm
Blue, elephants are NOT found everywhere.  At any rate, Plato probably meant mammoths, which is the whole point of the Atlantic Ocean mammoth tusks, who's pictures I just printed.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:17:22 pm
This was an interesting article that wants to place Atlantis in England. Of course, Atlantis wasn't in England, on the other hand, the author makes an interesting case for the origin of the megaliths, the circular symbols that appear on the rocks, and Silbury Hill all having some Atlantean origin:


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:18:04 pm
Did Atlantis lay in England?

By E.J. de Meester.

Not only a part of the Odyssey could be moved to the British isles; legendary Atlantis may have existed there too. Countless theories have been invented about Atlantis. Most popular is perhaps the theory that Atlantis was the little volcanic island of Thera or Santorini, which perished during the reign of queen Hatshepsut (?) in a great catastrophe. The weak point of the theory is that Thera is not outside the Pillars of Hercules (the Strait of Gibraltar). According to the supporters of this theory, Atlantis did not perish 9000 but 900 years ago, counting from the time of Solon (600 BC). It is very likely that all numbers in Plato's Atlantis story are ten times too high.

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekatlantis.gif)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:18:51 pm
Plato tells about Atlantis in his dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Atlantis was situated on a large island in the Atlantic Ocean, apparently not very far from Europe. How many islands like this are there? I can find only two: Britain and Ireland. The capital was on the south coast and had a harbour. If Atlantis was in England, than it must have been near Portsmouth or perhaps near Exeter, Poole, Brighton of Hastings. Plato writes in Critias: 'The area as a whole was high and the coast was precipitous, but around the city itself there was a plain (...)' This refers clearly to the famous white cliffs of Dover, the first thing visitors see when they come to England, and to the South-English plain.

Atlantis lay in a fertile plain, surrounded by mountains. That is also correct. The plain is said to measure 370 by 550 km - far too large. But one tenth of that, 37 by 55 km, corresponds approximately with a rectangle between Salisbury and Chichester. The plain was divided into 60,000 (6000?) square fields, probably so-called Celtic fields, although the Celts came much later to England (from 550 BC). The city is said to have been round with a diameter of 24 km (2,4 km). The last number corresponds with the dimensions of the inner city of Amsterdam (without the Plantage quarter). The centre would be about as large as the area around the Dam Square.

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekamsterdam.gif)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:19:27 pm
North of Poole, on the river Avon (derived from 'Atlantis'?), is the famous monument of Stonehenge. It is very strange that nobody connects Stonehenge with Atlantis. Both exert an enormous attraction to all sorts of mystics, hippies, romantics etceteras. There are some theories that identify the Atlantic civilisation with the megalithic civilisation that existed along the Atlantic coast. If Atlantis really existed and was not the Minoan civilisation on Crete, then this is the only possibility.

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekstonehenge.gif)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:19:59 pm
A round city

An important clue is that Atlantis was a round city with canals, not unlike the inner city of Amsterdam. The Egyptians made everything square. So did the Greeks, although they sometimes built round temples. If Plato had imagined an ideal city, he would probably have designed a rectangular city. But Stonehenge is round and other monuments, like Avebury, are also round; quite different from Greek or Egyptian monuments. A symbol consisting of three concentric circles is often found on megaliths; it could represent Atlantis. Or perhaps Atlantis was built in the shape of this symbol, whatever it means.

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/teksymbool.gif)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:20:36 pm
Gold has been found in tombs near Stonehenge; that also fits. In Atlantis there is said to have been a race course that could be made long or short. Near Stonehenge two race courses have been found, a long one and a short one (the Stonehenge Cursus, in the middle, and the Lesser Cursus, top left), possibly for chariot races. Even in the Roman era the ancient Britons fought in chariots. Also there were hot and cold sources (like those near Troy, according to Homer); that reminds one of Bath. The round dots on the map are tumuli; the rectangular fields mentioned by Plato are also visible. The Avenue runs from Stonehenge (centre) to the river Avon (bottom right) and perhaps to Atlantis?

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekstonehenge3.gif)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:21:15 pm
There were buildings made of white, black and red stone, hewn from Clito's hill in the middle of the city. Several differently coloured stones are found on the Isle of Wight. Was the Isle of Wight Clito's hill? If Clito's hill was not in the centre of the city, it may be Silbury Hill, an artificial hill, almost 40 m high, to the south of Avebury. Perhaps Avebury itself might be Atlantis, because it also has three rings; but then Plato must have been very fanciful indeed. We may assume that the stories about Atlantis are somewhat inaccurate, but not too much.

St. Michael's Mount and Mont St. Michel

If there really was a central hill of stone in the middle of Atlantis, it may have been St. Michael's Mount near Penzance in Cornwall. This is not located in a large plain, but it is possible that it used to be on dry land. Today it lies on the beach. Two things speak in favour of this location. In the first place, there used to be tin mines in Cornwall. Apparently the tin was loaded into ships near St. Michael's Mount. Secondly, there is a legend in Cornwall about a sunken city. It is supposed to have been near the Scilly Islands, but it is quite possible that it really was near St. Michael's Mount. In France there is a similar legend about a sunken city named Ys (=Atlantis?), not far from Mont St. Michel. The two rocks are very similar; it is quite possible that they were confused and that this legend came from Cornwall. Perhaps the rock was surrounded with defensive walls to protect the costly tin from plunderers. A temple for the sea god on the rock is not unlikely. The whole complex may also have been a gigantic lingam (phallus symbol).



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:21:59 pm
(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekleylines.gif)

Mystics believe that St. Michael's Mount is connected with Stonehenge, Avebury and other monuments by means of 'ley lines', a kind of invisible power lines. The Michael line is supposed to run from St. Michael's Mount (bottom left) through Avebury to the north-east. On the line there are said to be 63 Christian monuments, all dedicated to St. Michael or Mary. I found this in a little Dutch book about crop circles. I don't believe in this New Age stuff myself, but for those who do, it ought to be fascinating.

A problem with St. Michael's Mount is that the plain of Atlantis, which should have been about 37 by 55 km wide, cannot have been there. The sea is also too deep; there is no shallow area which may be a submerged plain. And there are no great mountains to protect the plain against the north and west wind. In these respects the Lyme Bay near Torquay and Lyme Regis is a better choice. The bay is to the east of the high mountains of Dartmoor (the dark spot on the map). To the north of it are also mountains. In Dartmoor there are many ancient remains, probably dating from the early Bronze Age. At Grimspound and Legis Tor there are circular enclosures containing stone hut-circles. Other ancient monuments can be seen at Merrivale, Trowlesworthy Warren, Ditsworthy Warren, Erme Valley and Shovel Down. Near the coast they have probably disappeared long ago.

According to Plato the site of Atlantis is now muddy and difficult to pass for ships. The only spot on the south coast to which this applies is the estuary near Portsmouth, which is also not far from Stonehenge. So that is still the most likely spot.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:22:41 pm
Elephants or walruses?

The greatest problem is that there are said to have been elephants. In England bones of elephants, tigers, hyenas etc. have been found. In Russia it has been discovered that a small kind of mammoth was still living on Wrangel island until 3700 years ago; elsewere mammoths already died out 11,000 years ago. Were there perhaps still mammoths in Scotland, or were there still memories of the mammoths of the past? The Scottish Highland cattle still look a bit like mammoths! Another possibility is that walruses used to live on the British coasts. Walrus ivory can also be used to make ornamental objects. Such objects have been found in Skara Brae in Scotland. The ceiling of the great temple of Poseidon in Atlantis was covered with ivory. In Skara Brae whale bones were used to build roofs in stead of wood. It would have been very appropriate for a temple of Poseidon to have a roof made of whale bones. A visitor may have mistaken these for elephant tusks.

Another mystery is a metal that was found in Atlantis, called orichalcos (literally 'mountain copper'). Perhaps it is a memory from the time when the trade in tin made the Atlantians rich, although it is described as a red metal. It could also be referring to amber, although amber is not a metal (but fossilized resin) and usually comes from the Baltic Sea. It does not come from the mountains. I can't see any other possibility.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:23:20 pm
(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekstonehenge2.gif)

The destruction

So far almost everything fits beautifully. But how about the sudden destruction of Atlantis, which fascinates most Atlantis-seekers so much? England still exists. But it may be that not the whole island was destroyed, but only the capital and perhaps other seaports along the Atlantic coast. The south of England has been slowly sinking down since the last Ice Age; the same is true for the Netherlands. The great flood disaster in Holland in l953 shows only too clearly what can happen. Perhaps Atlantis was destroyed by a combination of very high tide and storm. Another possibility is a tsunami, a tidal wave from an undersea earthquake, perhaps coming from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. A great volcanic eruption on Iceland may also have caused major damage. So there are several possibilities for great disasters, without resorting to nonsense theories. Plato mentions an earthquake, although there are few or no earthquakes in England, but that is understandable because he was a Greek who had never seen the ocean during a violent storm. In Greece, high and low tides are unknown, while earthquakes are only too common.

'A new Atlantis in the making' - this headline was written above an article about New Orleans, which is also threatened by inundations from the Mississippi and the sea. Here, too, the ground is sinking and the dikes along the river prevent the spreading of silt from the river which used to compensate the sinking in Mark Twain's time. In 70 years the ground level has dropped by 1.80 m. Drilling for gas and oil (which did not exist in Atlantis, of course) makes it worse and hurricanes increase the danger. In Alexandria in Egypte the ground has also been sinking for centuries. The remains of Cleopatra's palace are now many metres deep under water.

Simon Day of the University College in London has issued a warning that the coasts of Florida and the Caribbean could be hit by a high tsunami if the volcanic island of La Palma collapses. Something like this could have happened in Atlantis. There are many submarine volcanoes and volcanic islands in the Atlantis Ocean. If a big landslide hits the sea, a super-tsunami hundreds of metres high can be caused. A normal tsunami, caused by a submarine earthquake, is no more than 10 m high and even that can cause disaster, like in l946, when a city on Hawaii was hit by one and more than a hundred people were killed. (There is a tsunami in one of the Pokémon cartoons.) The effect of a super-tsunami is far worse. The BBC programme Horizon of October the 12th 2000 was devoted to this phenomenon. A super-tsunami caused by a landslide on the northern coast of one of the Azores may have hit the coasts of Britain, France, Spain and Portugal and wiped out the Atlantic megalithic culture in one blow.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:23:58 pm
The stones of Carnac

The famous stones of Carnac in France must be the remains of an important centre of the same culture to which Stonehenge belonged. In the Bay of Morbihan near Carnac there are two stone circles of which one is completely, the other partially under water. Apparently the land here was also flooded by the sea. Carnac is especially famous for the long rows of stones which run towards the sea, parallel to each other. Nobody knows for what purpose they were built.

In a Belgian book about Atlantis which at first sight contained only nonsense I found an interesting suggestion: that the rows of stones served for the storage of ships. It seems that such row exist elsewhere and are always located near water. Perhaps walls of mud or small stones were built between the big stones. I think there must have been walls between the so-called trilithons in Stonehenge too, so that the light entered only through the narrow gaps between the stones. I also think there must have been a roof on top.

The theory of Peter James

One of the more recent theories is the one of the historian and archaeologist Peter James, who will be mentioned on another page in connection with the 'Dark Age'. In his book The Sunken Kingdom, The Atlantis Mystery Solved he claims that Atlantis was a city on the south coast of Turkey that was devastated by an earthquake and submerged beneath a lake. The city was called Tantalis after king Tantalos, who was similar to Atlas. It is a clever theory, but it has drawbacks: a) not on an island, b) not outside the Pillars of Hercules, c) too close to Greece (James raises this objection against the Santorini theory) and d) not a round city (?). I stick to my own theory. James's Atlantis theory is also mentioned on another page in connection with the Trojan War.

Noah's flood and the Black Sea

On the bottom of the Black Sea, north of Sinop, remains of a city that was drowned about 7500 years ago have been found by Robert Ballard, who discovered the wreck of the Titanic in 1985. These remains have not been associated with Atlantis - although that would be possible - but with the Flood. According to a theory of Bill Ryan and Walter Pitman the real Flood was the filling of the Black Sea, which used to be a small lake, around 5500 BC. Well-preserved pieces of wood have been found. They had not rotted away, because the water here contains very little oxygen and much sulphur hydrate, so that organic life is impossible. That Noah's Ark will be found is extremely unlikely, if only because Noah would have sailed to dry land and the Ark would have rotted away on the shore.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:25:04 pm
The Great Sphinx

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/teksfinx.gif)


Atlantis is sometimes associated with the Great Sphinx in Egypt, which is said to be much older than the pyramids. The Sphinx has been badly eroded by rain, say John West and others. In the book and TV series Egypt by Vivian Davies and Renée Friedman it is said that the area in which the Sphinx lies was quite moist between 8000 and 4000 BC. The pyramids were built around 2500 BC. If the Sphinx dates from 8000 BC or earlier, it may well have been eroded by rain. Perhaps there were temples or stone circles like Stonehenge (these have been found in the Sahara!) on the sites of the pyramids.

But the big question is: were there people who could build large stone structures at that time, or only primitive nomads? It so happens that Kathleen Kenyon found a tower from around 8000 BC in Jericho. In Çatal Höyük in Turkey a Neolithic city from about 7000-6000 BC has been found. Recently the archaeologist H.G. Gebel found a 9000 years old stone village near Petra in Jordan. If people could already build stone towers and staircases at that time, then perhaps they could also carve out the Sphinx, although that was an enormous undertaking.

On the other hand, it is doubtful whether the evidence for an older sphinx is really as strong as John West and others suggest. According to Zahi Hawass, under who supervision the sphinx is being restored, the lower layers of rock are so soft that they crumble easily and there were great fissures in it even before the sphinx was carved. It seems that even today rain falls on the sphinx from time to time. A tomb of the 4th Dynasty, with which Schoch and West compare the sphinx, is situated on a much higher and drier point and has been carved out of a different kind of rock. The oldest high culture in Egypt probably came from Mesopotamia. If we are looking for the origin of civilisation, we should look in Mesopotamia rather than Egypt.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:25:43 pm
America

Or was Atlantis situated in America, as some people think? There are many theories about people crossing the Atlantic Ocean long before Columbus. Andrew Collins writes about this in his new book Gateway to Atlantis, with a long Introduction by David Rohl. Collins has studied about a hundred books about Atlantis and thinks that most of them fall into three categories:

Pure fantasy by believers.
Atlantis is only a metaphor or an ideal city according to Plato.
Atlantis is a memory of some high Mediterranean culture that disappeared, usually Minoan Crete. Peter James' book also falls into this category.
All these theories do not tackle the main issues in Plato's text, according to Collins (and me). In his opinion there is persuasive evidence that Phoenician ships from Iberia crossed the Atlantic Ocean around 1000 BC or earlier. That may be true, but in my opinion there is much more evidence for contacts between America and Asia. Collins thinks that Cuba was Atlantis; some other people think it was Hispaniola (Haiti-Dominican Republic). He also thinks that Plato invented the Egyptian connection because he really had the information from the Phoenicians, but in his time Athens had just been at war with the Phoenicians, so he had to use some other story. That is quite possible, also in connection with my own theory. When Solon visited Egypt (if he did so) the Egyptians employed both Greek and Phoenician sailors, so it may be true that Solon heard about Atlantis in Saïs, not from the Egyptians but from the Phoenicians.

It has been suggested that Carthage was built in the shape of Atlantis. That is not true for the whole city, but it makes sense as far as the military harbour is concerned. The harbour of Carthage was more or less laid out in the shape of a keyhole; the straight (outer) part was for commercial ships, the round (inner) part was for warships. In the middle of the military harbour was a round island with docks for warships. It is not impossible that Plato's description of the central island of Atlantis was in fact inspired by Carthage. It seems that the name 'Atlantis' means 'huge, large, extensive, vast, endless' in Phoenician and 'giant, majestic' in Arabic.

The American geologist and fossil hunter Mark McMenamin claims to have found a world map on Carthagian coins from 350-320 BC. (See a page on the website Phoenicia.org.) The coin shows a horse; under the feet of the horse is a design that was first interpreted as writing, but which is a map according to McMenamin. In the middle is the Mediterranean Sea with Spain. On the left there is a blob which McMenamin interprets as America, but which looks more like Britain and Ireland in my opinion. Still a very interesting discovery! That Britain is depicted too far south is probably due to the fact that the Phoenicians used maps on rolls of papyrus. There was no space to draw Britain in the right place (compare the Roman Peutinger map). Britain is shown just where Plato said that Atlantis was situated: outside the Pillars of Hercules! The two dots above Spain that McMenamin interprets as Ireland and Britain may represent Normandy and Britanny. Tacitus (Agricola 11) writes that Britain is 'opposite Spain'; some of its inhabitants have dark, curly hair and may have come from Spain.

It is quite certain that the Phoenicians sailed to England. Whether they sailed to Cuba or Hispaniola is another matter. In a very curious passage Plato writes that you could sail from Atlantic via other islands to the opposite continent. Which continent? America? If so, the islands might be Ireland and Iceland. But Norway is more likely. In that case the islands would be Orkney and Shetland.

The pyramids of the Aztecs (who claimed to have come from the land of Azlan!) are often compared with the pyramids of Egypt, but in fact they are not very similar at all. They are much more similar to the ziggurats (stepped pyramids with temples on top) in Mesopotamia and the similarities between Maya temples and temples in Cambodia are simply astounding! Racially the Mayas are clearly Asiatic; they are quite unlike the Egyptians. Some people think that the Olmecs were black people from Africa, but in my opinion they looked rather like some Asian races or Australian aboriginals. Many precolumbian ornaments have obviously been influenced by Asian prototypes.

I find it hard to believe that building pyramids is a kind of universal human trait, like building houses. Ziggurats are found in many countries, but by no means in all countries. One might equally well claim that the obelisk in Washington has nothing to do with Egyptian obelisks, because it dates from a much later period, and that the dome of the Capitol only accidentally looks like European domes, because a dome happens to be a practical way of roofing spaces. It may well be that some people came to Middle America from Asia to teach (or force) the local population to build pyramids and to make gruesome human sacrifices.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:26:35 pm
(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tekorthogon.gif)

Yet America is much more difficult to reach from Asia than from Europe; that is, if one is able to cross oceans. But that was probably not possible before the time of the Vikings. One can sail from Japan to Mexico by following the islands and the coast, although one has to sail against the current sometimes. On a orthographic projection of the world with the North Pole as centre it can be seen that a voyage past Alaska is not really as far as it appears on a world map in Mercator projection. In the Mercator projection the regions near the North and South Pole are stretched. 1 - the voyage of Columbus in 1492; 2 - the voyages of the Vikings Eric the Red and Leif Eriksson around 1000; 3 - a voyage from Asia to America through the northern Pacific Ocean.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:26:57 pm
Kennewick Man

Recently there was a sensation among scholars in Brazil because a scull found in 1975 turned out to be 11.500 years old and showed Australian traits. According to current theory, the oldest inhabitants of America came from Asia 10,000 years ago across the frozen Bering Strait. But now it is thought in Brazil that Australian aboriginals already came to America by boat 15,000 years ago. In the United States a 9000 years old skeleton has been found, Kennewick Man, which is not of an Indian but of a white man according to some people. According to others its is more like those of the Ainus (the original inhabitants of Japan) or the Polynesians. Again Orientals, therefore. Kennewick is in the west of the United States, near the Pacific Ocean, not near the Atllantic Ocean.

Unfortunately a law has been passed in the US which makes it possible for fundamentalist Indians (sorry - native Americans!) to bury and so destroy objects like the Kennewick Man skeleton. This is similar to the burning of almost all Aztec books by the conquistadors. In the Westfrisian Museum in my home town Hoorn there is a mummy of an Eskimo that was brought back by 17th-century whalers; there is a request that this mummy, too, should be taken back to Greenland. Although this mummy probably has little scientific value, it seems to me that returning it would give a bad example.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:27:23 pm
Graham Hancock

In 1999 Discovery Channel broadcast a three-part series called Quest for the lost Civilisation. In it Graham Hancock stated that the pyramids, Angkor Vat, Stonehenge, the stones of Carnac, the Nazca lines, temples in Mexico and the statues of Easter Island were all part of an ancient global civilisation of seafarers who were apparently obsessed by astrology. The temples of Angkor Vat (in Cambodia) were said to be built in the shape of the zodiac sign Draco, the pyramids of Gizeh in the shape of Sirius; the Sphinx is supposed to be looking at the sign of Leo. It's all rather vague. Hard to say whether it's nonsense or not. More information can be found in Hancocks books, like Fingerprints of the Gods (Heinemann) and Heaven's Mirror (Penguin Books). Hancock also has a theory about the Ark of the Covenant; I'll return to that later.

Not long after this, the BBC hit back with two episodes of Horizon, in which Atlantis believers were even compared with Nazis! Part 2 was focussed on Hancocks ideas, at least on some of them. The corrosion of the sphinx was said to be caused by salt. The placing of the pyramids was determined by the building site and not by the stars, according to Kate Spence. That the temples of Angkor Vat were built in the shape of the zodiac sign Draco is also untrue, according to E. Mannikka; also there are more than 60 temples and Hancock chose only 10 out of them. Indeed it is not a convincing theory at all.

Robert Bauval's theory about the pyramids at Giza could be right because the three great pyramids can be seen at a glance and may well have something to do with stars. The criticism the north and south are reversed is not true: Orion is in the southern sky, so you would have to look at Giza from the north to the south, and then it is correct. But it could also be a coincidence. In Angkor a star pattern is not at all obvious from a plan, let alone from the ground. Much more intriguing, in my opinion, is the uncanny resemblance between e.g. the temple of Baksei Changkrong in Angkor and Maya temples. The building technique (corbelled vaults) is also the same. The big heads in Angkor Thom are also strongly reminiscent of the big heads of the Olmeks in Mexico: the same thick lips and flat noses.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:28:23 pm
Tiahuanaco near Lake Titicaca

(http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/tektiahuanaco.gif)

The city of Tiahuanaco near Lake Titicaca in Peru is sometimes named as a possible site of Atlantis, in spite of the fact that nearly everything in the city is not round but square, even the eyes of the statues! In alternative circles Tiahuanaco is best known because of the writings of Arthur Posnansky, which Hancock heavily relies on. Posnansky died in 1948; after that, C-14 datings have proven (according to the BBC) that the first settlement on the site originated only 3500 years ago and that the first monuments were built only 2000 years ago. That is much to late for Atlantis, even if a city so far from Europe and so high above sea level could possibly be Atlantis. Hancock protests that C-14 dating can only be used on carbon and not on stones.

Recently a city was discovered on the bottom of Lake Titicaca, 15 m deep, probably built by the Tiahuanaco people. The level of the lake must have risen considerably since then; apparently the climate has changed. The leader of the expedition is the Italian archaeologist Lorenzo Epis. Other people have explored the lake before, e.g. Jacques Cousteau in 1976. So there is indeed a sunken city there. But I don't think it can be Atlantis.

It is a pity that Hancock rarely pays any attention to things that are certainly many thousands of years old according to orthodox archaeology (see above). Sometimes it seems as if he is only interested in beautiful pictures and places with a high Erich von Däniken content, like Easter Island and the pyramids. Those are always popular with the general public! Although I was interested at first, I became more and more disappointed watching Hancock's series and Horizon gave my interest the final blow. His theory about the Ark of the Covenant seems more interesting to me.

This does not mean that there are no mysteries left. For instance, traces of heroin and nicotin have been found in Egyptian mummies, although coca and tobacco used to grow only in America. Nobody has found a good explanation for this strange fact. Also, it seems that prehistoric symbols have been found in California which are similar to symbols found on the British Isles.

Recently I saw a film on the National Geographic Channel about the mysterious 'red paint people'. This turned out to be an ancient people that built megalithic graves near the sea on the Atlantic coasts of North America, especially Labrador. The graves contained red paint. Harpoons were also known. The culture is called 'Maritime Archaic'. It was obviously some seafaring people that lived 7500 years ago. On the Atlantic coasts of Europe similar monuments from the same period have been found. If it was a seafaring people, than can't there have been contacts across the Atlantic Ocean after all? After 4000 years the 'red paint people' disappeared without a trace.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:29:14 pm
Antarctica

There is also a theory that Antarctica, the land around the South Pole, was Atlantis. On certain old maps, like that of the Turkish admiral Piri Reis, Antarctica is shown as it looked before it was covered by ice. But drillings in the ice cap of Antarctica have shown that the land has been covered by ice for 400.000 years. Apparently Hancock does not believe in this theory any more. Those mysterious maps were not discussed in Horizon. I can't find any explanation myself.

In general, I think that the criticism in Horizon was sometimes unfair, but on the other hand I must say that Hancock and Bauval are often leaning dangerously towards soft New Age blah. I get the impression that many former adherents of pyramid theories are getting tired of it too. A cynic could compare Hancock to Jerry Springer, who started making serious programmes and then discovered that he could make much more money with a different kind of shows. Hancock started writing serious books about famine in Africa and now...

Next subject: the 'dark age' of Greece.
Plato's dialogues and other classic works in English translations.
Eden - The Andrew Collins Web Site.
The books of Edgar Cayce, the American Atlantis guru.
A site about the Phoenicians, e.g. theories that they visited America or Brazil.
Leyline Quest, a site about leylines.
The Official Graham Hancock Website.
The Official Website of Robert Bauval.
The Official Mystery of the Sphinx Page (John West).
The SPHINX Group, discussion about the sphinx.
Egypt News, about the same stuff. They have a mailing list.
The Upuaut Project, about the little robot of Rudolf Gantenbrink that explored a shaft in the Great Pyramid.
Mysteries of the Ancient Cultures, about Egypt and America etc.
The Mysteries of Turkey, about all sorts of Turkish mysteries, including the map of Piri Reis.
The Plateau, official website of Dr. Zahi Hawass (about the pyramids etc.).
Back home.
http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engatlantis.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:30:46 pm
Researchers have observed, again by studying contemporary preliterate people, that bands become inefficient when they grow large. Inevitably, as a group expands, people break away and form new bands. As the number of PaleoIndians mounted near the Ohio, Cumberland, and Tennessee Rivers, new groups likely separated and headed for other territories. It was during this time of expansion, sometime in the Early PaleoIndian period between 11,500 and 11,000 years ago, that the first people passed through land now occupied by Fort Benning and left the two distinctive Clovis spear points.
What they were doing, where they came from, and where they were going can only be speculated. Perhaps they were trailing big game or searching for a new home or for rock outcrops where they could extract materials for tools. In all probability, they camped on spots with a good view of the wide Chattahoochee River.

Just as with many Clovis spear point discoveries in the Southeast, there was no other evidence-no other tools, no campfire charcoal, no sign of housing-found with the artifacts on Fort Benning. This doesn't mean that Early PaleoIndians didn't burn fires or build shelters. Signs could have been destroyed in the acidic soils or buried under centuries of river sediment. Future excavations may yet reveal such evidence. It is also possible that scientists don't yet recognize all the tools PaleoIndians used.

Whatever drew PaleoIndians to the region, one of their most likely activities was hunting. PaleoIndians in the Southeast ate a variety of foods. They probably gathered nuts and leafy plants, dug up roots, and also hunted small game such as deer and rabbit. There is little doubt, however, that they also tracked large animals, such as the giant sloth-a slow-moving mammal standing up to 18 feet tall-the grizzly bear, and the elephant-like mastodons and mammoths.

Ideas about how PaleoIndians hunted such massive animals comes, in part, from research about African elephants. Other information derives from PaleoIndian sites in the western United States where dry conditions help preserve bone better than in the Southeast. Scientists have found PaleoIndian spear points lodged between mammoth rib bones and embedded in ribs of prehistoric bison, proof of the hunting prowess of early people. PaleoIndian spear points have also been found near mammoth skeletons in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Mastodon bones and fluted points have also been located together in Missouri.

Even in the Southeast, where environmental decomposition complicates discoveries, some limited evidence of PaleoIndian interaction with large Ice Age species exists. Archeologists exploring underwater sites in Florida have recovered a prehistoric bison skull with an embedded spear point fragment and a prehistoric horse skeleton and mammoth bones with cut marks apparently made by humans.

While other signs of hunting are slim, scientists have little doubt that PaleoIndians were pursuing large Ice Age creatures in the South. Scuba divers near St. Simon's Island, Georgia recently surfaced with remains of a giant sloth. The sloth in life stood 14 feet tall and 22 feet long and weighed perhaps six tons. Slow-moving animals that looked somewhat like bears, sloths were vegetarians. They stood on hind legs and reached high into trees, using 12-inch claws to snare tree limbs and pull them within reach.

Another recent find was a fossilized, Ice-Age elephant bone on a beach at Edisto Island, South Carolina. Someone thousands of years ago apparently carved grooves in the bone with a knife. Large prehistoric animals also roamed the area around Fort Benning. Just south of the post in Stewart County, Georgia a mastodon tooth was recovered. Scientists speculate that the mammoth, the mightiest of Ice Age animals, also roamed in the area, though in lesser numbers than the mastodon.

Mammoths stood up to 12 feet tall and weighed thousands of pounds, dwarfing the PaleoIndian hunters. Their tough hides and shaggy hair insulated the creatures from frigid weather. Long, sharp, semicircular tusks, along with massive size and surprising speed, provided protection from enemies. Such formidable defenses meant the mammoths faced no serious predators except for humans.

To hunt the mammoth, the PaleoIndians had to keep careful watch on their intended prey by often lurking downwind at watering holes. The hunters targeted animals that strayed from the herd and those that appeared weakest-the sick, the old, and the young. Even so, attacking a mammoth required courage, intense concentration, and cooperation. Hunters had to rely on surprise by sneaking undetected within a few feet of the animal. When they rose up to attack, they had to be close enough to throw or jab their spears with sufficient force to pierce the mammoth's tough hide. Then they had to scramble out of the way or be crushed because the wounded creature might thrash about or charge with horrifying speed. The noise and confusion of trumpeting mammoths and thundering hooves must have been deafening and terrifying. All the effort and danger proved worthwhile if the hunt was successful because the PaleoIndians were rewarded not only with ample meat, but also with raw materials for housing, clothing, and tools.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/benning-book/ch01.htm

http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/benning-book/ch01.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:37:45 pm
GEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Importance of Oceanography

The geological aspect of Atlantis is the most important facet of the whole issue of Atlantis. If the geological story of this planet does not support the existence of a large island in the midst of the North Atlantic, then, to make a long story short, Atlantis is down the tube. Therefore, establishing the feasibility of such a landmass geologically is of paramount importance. In the case of Atlantis, geology and oceanography are closely entwined.

SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIONS

Science confidently asserts that "geologists find no traces of sunken continents in either the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans" (Davies, 1979). This in spite of the glaring fact that an extremely large mid-oceanic plateau (known as the Azore Plateau) exists in the North Atlantic, which at a depth of 1600 meters (approximately one mile) is roughly 500 X 600 miles in extent--representing a total area of 300,000 square miles.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:38:18 pm
(http://www.atlantisquest.com/azore_plt.gif)

The Azore Plateau as Atlantis (Capital City: red dot near southern coast). Notice the
level plain in the south and the mountains in the north as described in Plato's Critias.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:38:42 pm
Equally misleading statements are made, such as the following: "No scientist believes that the sea level rose by anything like five thousand feet [roughly one mile], although much smaller changes are known to have occurred during the Ice Ages." (ibid.) No Atlantologist to my knowledge has suggested a rise in sea level of this magnitude; but sea-floor upheaval and subsidence is a totally different matter, as will be seen in the data given below--all from scientific sources.


The center of the geological story of Atlantis is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Other related aspects are confined to the ocean bottom in the vicinity of the Ridge; therefore these areas, including the Azore Plateau, will be the focal points of this study. I've noticed that the Azore (also called the Dolphin) Plateau is all but invisible in most maps of the Atlantic Ocean floor. However, I did locate one beautiful color-coded bathymetric chart which conveys a reasonably clear idea of its location and extent. (Click for bathymetric chart)


Since I am not an oceanographer, I will rely on the special reports and scientific papers of oceanographers and geologists who have done work in these areas in the past. The data presented below include those supplied by two giants in the field of oceanography, Drs. Bruce Heezen and Maurice Ewing, both of the prestigious Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory at New York's Columbia University, as well as those of other well-known marine research institutions.


Don't let anyone tell you that the discovery of Plate Tectonics (involving "continental drift") disproves Atlantis in any way. I've heard professionals in the field make statements like, "This doesn't leave any room for Atlantis!", or "the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is made of basaltic material, it can't be part of a continent!" We will let you decide after you have looked at the evidence presented.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:39:13 pm
THE ATLANTIC LANDMASS


Professional geologists have endeavored to make Plate Tectonics--the backbone of modern geology--an enemy of Atlantis (Speicher, 1972). Nothing could be further from the truth. Plate Tectonics is what created and what destroyed Atlantis. It is also what has made it such an unreliable dwelling place for plants or animals; and the landmass Plato called Atlantis may have gone in and out of existence several times over a period of several millions of years. It was not always the same size or the same shape, and it doubtless had different categories of flora and fauna during these different periods of time. In geological terms it doesn't take long for a landmass to develop some sort of collection of flora and fauna. In a mere thousand years, all kinds of grasses, weeds, bushes and trees will cover any landmass making its appearence in a temperate or tropical zone. Such growth couldn't care less whether the land was made of continental (sial) or basaltic (sima) material. Or whether it was officially a "continent" or not. Greenland is an island. Plato called Atlantis "a large island". So if it was as large as Greenland (a pretty big place), it would still be an "island".


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:40:34 pm
(http://www.atlantisquest.com/Ridge.gif)

Hydrographic map of Azore Plateau and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:41:07 pm
PLATE TECTONICS

Did North America and Europe fit together so perfectly that there was no body of water in between? Evidence indicates that there was a "proto-Atlantic Ocean" even before the continents began to spread apart. This evidence was obtained during a series of core drillings by the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory's Deep-Sea Project. During this expedition it was found that sediments off the coasts of North Africa and North America differed in age some 45 million years. Had the continents been joined the sediments would have been the same age (Hayes & Pimm, 1971). The nature of the samples resulted in Dr. Hayes postulating a 400-mile-wide "proto-Atlantic Ocean" extending from Newfoundland down to at least the Bermuda area.


Moreover the phenomenon known as "continental drift," which is due to the action of Plate Tectonics, is an extremely slow process. The breakup which left the Americas and Euro-Africa drifting apart began near the beginning of the Mesozoic Era some 200 million years ago. There has been sufficient room for Atlantis in the North Atlantic Ocean for the last 60 million years--and there is definitive oceanographic data to support this (Ewing, 1948).


Some biologists and zoologists have postulated the existence of a large landmass in the North Atlantic during Miocene times, 12-26 million years ago. Atlantis may have "surfaced" several times during the long geological history of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. But at the moment we are more concerned about the last 3 million years, i.e., the Pleistocene Epoch, which ended only 12,000 years ago.


Seismic activity has been somewhat concentrated near the Azore Plateau, roughly 25-30°N Latitude. (Tolstoy & Ewing, 1949) "In the final phase activity was renewed, with volcanism on the crest and faulting on the flanks . . . This last phase may have occurred as recently as the Quaternary." (Cifelli, 1970) Sediments were dated by submarine paleontology. And the Quaternary does include the Pleistocene Epoch. (Longwell, Flint & Sanders, 1969)


"Climatic catastrophes, which piled thousand of feet of ice on the higher latitudes of the continents, also covered the oceans with icebergs and ice fields at lower latitudes and chilled the ocean waters even down to the equator. Volcanic catastrophes cast rains of ash over the sea." (Pettersson, 1950) There is no question that the geological record of our planet presents "evidence of great catastrophes that have altered the face of the earth." (Ibid.) The question that pertains to our study here is when and where.


But what of the objections concerning the light granitic continental material known as sial (silicon-aluminum)? As stated above, a landmass does not have to be made of sial in order to be above ocean levels long enough to acquire vegetation and animal populations. Granted, if consisting predominately of sima (silicon-magnesium) it will be heavier and therefore unstable, but forces powerful enough to lift ocean bottoms for short periods of time (geologically speaking) certainly exist along the geologically turbulent Mid-Atlantis Ridge. The Ridge is the most active area on the face of the earth, and we will examine the evidence that a central Atlantic landmass has indeed existed several times in the geologic past.


But, in spite of what various geologists have said, there is good oceanographic data showing that much of this area along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is composed of sial, in spite of the scientific objections (Leonard, 1979). Dr. W. Maurice Ewing of Columbia University headed up several oceanographic expeditions along the famous Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:41:35 pm
THE OCEANOGRAPHIC EXPEDITIONS

Prof. Hans Pettersson, leader of the Swedish Albatross expeditions, which extracted hundreds of samples from the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean throughout the 1930's, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was mainly above water as recently as 15,000 years ago. A similar conclusion had been reached earlier by the German Gauss expedition, which sounded the Romanche Deep in 1901.


In 1936, Charles S. Piggot's famous U.S. Geological Survey of deep core soundings indicated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge reached above the surface of the ocean 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Different sediment deposits on each side of the Ridge showed that the Ridge once separated two currents moving in opposite directions. Heavy deposits of volcanic ash on both slopes were dated at 12,000 years ago. (Piggot, 1937)


Commenting on this oceanographic study, Swedish oceanographer Hans Pettersson (1944) wrote: "The topmost of the two volcanic strata is found above the topmost glacial stratum, which indicates that this volcanic catastrophe or catastrophies occurred in postglacial times . . . It can therefore not be entirely ruled out that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, where the sample originated, was above sea level up to about ten thousand years ago and did not subside to its present depth until later."


Still later, after obtaining sea-bottom cores near the Romanche Deep, Pettersson stated: "One is lead to assume that the sea bottom in the Romanche Deep area must, in a remote past, have risen by at least 1000m., and then, after an interval of many thousand years, suddenly subsided to its present great depth, sinking by more than 6000m. This particular part of the Atlantic Ocean is known to have frequent volcanic and seismic disturbances." (Pettersson, 1947)


In 1948 Dr. Ewing, one of the bitter opponents of Atlantis, sailed up and down the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during the Woods Hole Oceanographic Expeditions to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Numerous samples of tremolite asbestos were brought up. Ewing made this significant comment: "Such rock is generally considered typical of continents and not of ocean basins." (Ewing, 1948)


Important also was the discovery of "beachlike terraces" beneath two miles of ocean water. Ewing cautiously observed: "It is, of course, extremely radical speculation to identify these level stretches more than two miles below the sea surface as former beaches. Such a theory would require the obvious but almost incredible conclusion that the land has subsided two miles or else the sea has risen by that amount" (Ewing, 1948). However, subsequent expeditions only strengthened the "incredible".


According to Ewing, long flat stretches were detected 2 to 20 miles wide and hundreds of miles long. These beach-like areas were always covered with thick sediments, indicating a long period of deposition, although occasionally separated by mountainous "higher ground" exhibiting no such sediments. (The Central Highland of the Ridge occasionally approaches four-fifths of a mile from the sea surface.) Ewing observed that deep ocean basins never have thick sediments--which are the result of surf action and river deposition--it is actually shorelines that display thick sediments. More evidence of just how recently such a landmass existed turned up during an expedition the following year.


The follow-up expedition in 1949 turned up numerous core samples from these terraces. These cores contained two different strata of beach sand: the older estimated to be 225,000-325,000 years of age, and the younger 20,000-100,000 years old (Ewing, 1949). Another significant fact is that the deposits were found to be well-sorted by surf action into the usual pattern of shoreline beaches familiar to geologists (Miller & Scholten, 1966). His conclusion was that: "Sometime in the distant past this sand found deep beneath the ocean must have been located on a beach, at or near the surface of the sea" (Ewing, 1949).


During this second Woods Hole Mid-Atlantic Ridge Expedition Dr. Ewing once again dredged up continental type rocks. Sample after sample containing large masses of sial were brought up all along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It became obvious that granite and sedimentary rocks "which originally must have been part of a continent" were abundant (Ewing, 1949). Dr. Bruce Heezen, oceanographer with the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, observed that this type of rock indicates "possible sunken land masses". (Heezen, Tharp & Ewing, 1959)


Geologists have short memories when it comes to Atlantis. A geologist reviewed the Woods Hole expeditions of 1948-1949 barely ten years later and wrote a report on the findings (Cifelli, 1970). I read his report, word for word and cover to cover: not a word was written concerning the numerous findings of continental material (sial) along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Ewing was puzzled, even dismayed, by these particular discoveries; yet he was honest enough to report them. Why were these astounding facts not included in Richard Cifelli's review? Can professional geologists be this one-sided?


Still another oceanographic expedition, Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition of 1947-1948, yielded core samples containing sand from the Romanche Deep along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Otto Mellis did not publish these findings until ten years later (Mellis, 1958). Other geologists have guardedly admitted that the Azore Islands (Central Atlantic) are composed chiefly of continental material, some even conceding that there might be enough continental material (sial) in the mid-Atlantic to make up a landmass the size of Spain (de Camp, 1970). This is not much smaller than the size I have been proposing for the island of Atlantis.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:42:17 pm
TESTIMONY OF SEA FAUNA AND FLORA

Strong evidence indicating the rise and fall of the seafloor more than three miles at a time are the fossilized remains of marine plants and animals. This evidence proves that it is not impossible for large areas of mid-ocean seafloor to have been elevated to the point of becoming dry land, before subsequently subsiding to depths of three miles or more. And this can happen almost over night, geological speaking.


For instance, while exploring the Wyville Thomson Ridge (between Iceland and the Orkney Islands), the Norwegian Polar Expedition (1893-1896), led by Fridtjof Nansen, found large quantities of shells and otoliths of sea animals normally inhabiting only shallow waters. They were found in the seabed at about 72°N Latitude at depths approximating one thousand meters (3300 feet), and onward to the south at depths of twenty-five hundred meters (8200 feet). (Nansen, 1900-1903)


His conclusion was that these areas of the North Atlantic must have dropped thousands of feet (almost two miles in some cases) very suddenly, otherwise the shallow-sea animals would have had time to escape to the continental shelf. This did not take place millions of years ago--the time-frame for the subsidence was determined to be not more than 12,000 years ago (i.e., the Recent Epoch).


In the early 1900s the newly built German research vessel Gauss was launched on its first expedition to study the South Atlantic seafloor. The expedition made significant discoveries to the south of our proposed location for Atlantis. Cores were obtained containing sand, granite, gneiss and chrystalline schist--all continental materials. Layer "b" also contained minerals forming hypersthenic gneiss (i.e., continental rocks). (Zhirkov, 1958)


Subsequent investigation performed by the Swedish oceanographic research vessel Albatross corroborated these earlier finds: the bottom layer included fossilized remains of benthomic foraminiferra that can only live in depths of 100 to 200 metres. Cores taken at "depths between 2000 and 4000m" (1.25 and 2.5 miles respectively) contained shallow-water globigerina ooze! The conclusion was that the area within the Romanche Deep (one of the deepest parts of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge) had first risen 1000m, then subsided a shocking 6000m--almost three and a half miles! (Pettersson, 1946)


Red-clay (a light detrital material from the continents) and calcarous ooze (calcium carbonate from the decomposed skeletons of billions of microorganisms) was deposited along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during the Quaternary period. The report by Sclater & Tapscott (1979) states that the calcarous ooze is most predominate near the crest of the Ridge.


In 1957, Dr. Rene Malaise of the Riks Museum in Stockholm announced that a colleague, Dr. R. W. Kolbe, had found proof of the geologically recent subsidance of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Kolbe of the Swedish Museum of Natural History had been commissioned to investigate diatoms found in deep-sea cores obtained during the 1947-1948 Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition. Although the expedition included a globe-encircling study, only those cores taken from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge yielded the following: multitudinous shells of fresh-water diatoms (small lake animals) and fossilized remains of terrestrial plants (Kolbe, 1957). Let me repeat that. Land plants and fresh-water animals were found fossilized on the Atlantic Ocean bottom along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (See also Kolbe, 1958)


Dr. Malaise theorized that parts of the Ridge must have existed as large islands up to the end of the last Ice Age or later: i.e., as recently as 10,000-12,000 years ago. He also theorized that these landmasses must have had fresh-water lakes in order to account for the existence of fresh-water animals (Malaise, 1956).* Commenting on Malaise' theory, Kolbe writes: ". . . it provides a natural explanation of the layer consisting exclusively of fresh-water diatoms, which is otherwise difficult to comprehend" (Kolbe, 1957).


The six levels of terraces discovered by the Woods Hole expeditions suggest that the Atlantic island was constantly changing shape--as well as being reduced in size--before it finally disappeared at the end of the Ice Age. Such geological changes would have been catastrophic to any life living on such a landmass: the unhappy result of the constant violence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. If the Atlantic landmass happened to be inhabited by humans, these violent disturbances could well have been the cause of the four Cro-Magnon "invasions" outlined on the Anthropological page of this web site. These well documented invasions impacted the western shores of North Africa and Europe (including Great Britain and other Atlantic islands) and occurred during a time frame of 35,000-12,000 years ago (the last invasion corresponding closely to the date given by Plato for the demise of Atlantis).


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:42:57 pm
NOTES

*It is more than interesting to note that one of Dr. Malaise' papers (listed also in the Bibliography) is entitled Atlantis en Geologisk Verklighet. This Swedish title, when translated into English reads: Atlantis: a Geologic Reality! I wonder how Malaise' professional career went from that point on. We know what happened to Prof. Hapgood's career after his publication of Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. [Back]

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Cifelli, Richard, "Age relationships of Mid-Atlantic Ridge sediments," Special Paper No. 124, Geological Society of America, 1970.
Davies, Nigel, "Voyages to the New World," William Morrow and Co., Inc., New York, 1979.
de Camp, L. Sprague, "Lost Continents," Dover Publications Inc., New York, 1970.
Ewing, Maurice, "Exploring the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," The National Geographic Magazine, Vol. xciv, No. 3, September 1948.
Ewing, Maurice, "New Discoveries on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," The National Geographic Magazine, Vol. xcvi, No. 5, November 1949.
Heezen, B.C., Tharp, M., Ewing, M., The North Atlantic, Washington D.C., 1959.
Kolbe, R. W., "Fresh-Water Diatoms from Atlantic Deep-Sea Sediments," Science, Vol. 126, No. 3282, 22 November, 1957.
Kolbe, R. W., "Turbidity Currents and Displaced Fresh-Water Diatoms," Science, Vol. 127. No. 3313, 27 June 1958.
Leonard, R. Cedric, A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, Special Paper No. 1, Cowan Publ., Bethany, 1979.
Leonard, R. Cedric, "Quest for Atlantis," Manor Books Inc., New York, 1979.
Longwell, Flint & Sanders, "Physical Geology," John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York London Sydney, 1969.
Malaise, Rene, Sjunket l and i Atlanten, Ymer, Stockholm, 1956. (See also his Atlantis en Geologisk Verklighet, Bibliofilupplaga, Stockholm, 1951.)
Mellis, Otto, Zur Sedimentation in Der Romanche-Tiefe (Ein Beitrag zur Erklarung der Enstellung des Tiefseesandes in Atlantischen Ozean), Geologischen Rundschau, Goteborg, 1958.
Miller, J. P. & Scholten, R., "Ocean, Lakes, and Shoreline Features," Labratory Studies in Geology, No. 225, 1966.
Nansen, Fridtjof, "The Norwegian North polar expedition, 1893-1896: scientific results," Longmans, Green & Co., London New York, 1900-1903.
Pettersson, Hans, Atlantis och Atlanten, Albert Bonniers förlag, Stockholm, 1944.
Pettersson, Hans, "A Swedish deep-sea expedition," Communication by Sir John Edgell, F.R.S., received 18 February 1946.
Pettersson, Hans, "A Swedish deep-sea expedition," Proceedings of the Royal Society of London (Series B), Biological Sciences, Vol. 134, No. 876, 2 Jul 1947.
Pettersson, Hans, "Exploring the Ocean Floor," Scientific American magazine, August 1950.
Piggot, Charles S., "Core samples of the ocean bottom," Carnegie Institution of Washington News Service Bulletin Staff Edition, 4 (no. 9), 6 December 1936.
Piggot, Charles S., "Core samples of the ocean bottom," Smithsonian Report for 1936, No. 944, Smithsonian Institution, Washington DC, pp. 207-16, 1937.
Sclater, John G., & Tapscott, Christopher, "The History of the Atlantic," Scientific American, Vol. 240, No. 6, June 1979.
Speicher, John, "Plate Tectonics--A Startling New View of Our Turbulent Earth," Popular Science, Vol. 200, No. 6, June 1972.
Tolstoy, I. & Ewing, M., "North Atlantic hydrography and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Bulletin of the Geological Society of America, Vol. 60, No. 10, October 1949.
Zhirov, N. H., as he reports in his book "Atlantida" (English edition, p. 282), Moscow, 1958.


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http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:48:26 pm
PROOF OF THE FORMER EXISTANCE OF A
LARGE ISLAND ON THE MID ATLANTIC RIDGE

River Systems Extract - Azores as a Large Island

In 1971 we carried out an inspection of parts of the South Coast of San Miguel, the largest of the Azorean Islands. At one point, we found the remnants of a large, boulder filled, river-bed truncated by the shoreline. The rounded boulders were smoothly water-worn and massive (up to two feet across). The river bed, if we remember correctly, was some two hundred and fifty feet from bank to bank; but there was now insufficient width of island to sustain such a river. The boulders were so worn that they had, obviously, travelled a considerable distance, and a strong current of water with a head of thousands of feet would have been required to transport them. There was no room on the narrow island for such a current to be fostered - the rivers source must have lain to the north, on the flanks of a high mountain range. The present mountains on San Miguel are only a little over 3,000 feet high; and we estimate that it would have required a fall of at least 10,000 feet to have reduced boulders of that size, and hardness, to the degree of roundness which they profess.

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed2.jpg)(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed4.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:48:49 pm
This discovery so intrigued us that we started an investigation of the mapped sea-bed around all of the islands, with remarkable results. We started with the 1:1 million scale Admiralty Chart - Arquipelago dos Acores - the numerous soundings of which gave a very good general view of the configuration of the sea bed over the whole group of Azorean islands, covering, from east to west - Ilheus das Formigas, Santa Maria, Sao Miguel, Terciera, Soa Jrge, Graciosa, Pico (with its 7,613 feet high, conical, volcanic peak). These were supplemented by larger scale charts where they were available.

We started by contouring the sea bed at intervals of 100 fathoms (600 feet), and it immediately became clear that the river systems that now modestly drain the southern flanks of Sao Miguel were merely head-water tributaries whose channels continued far out to sea, joining into one great, winding, submarine valley some 40 miles further to the south. Other islands contributed similar results and, outstanding, were the triple group of Fial, Sao Jorge and Terciera whose combined results spawned two long river-like valleys which joined into one large valley to give a system that extended for 180 miles.

The whole of the Azorean island group was separated and surrounded by a net of submarine valleys that had all the hall-marks of having once been river valley's on the surface. The Azores could - and probably had, within comparatively recent times - sunk by many thousands of feet.

The next step was to decide whether it was possible to detect any particular contours which might point to an ancient shore line pre dating the sinking of the area. In the south, there was a clear break in gradients around the 1,900 fathom (11,400 feet) contour where a very extensive plain dipped sharply into deeper water. In the north, much the same had happened but at a considerably more shallow depth.

It began to look as if a large land mass, 450 miles across from east to west, and 300 miles from north to south, had tilted from north to south and had sunk beneath the waves, leaving only its mountain peaks showing above the waters - peaks which now form the ten islands of the Azores.

After further calculation, we reached the conclusion that the tilting, either before or during foundering, had been of the order of 0.4 degrees, as a result of which the south coast had sunk more than 11,000 feet and the north coast only some 6,000 feet.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:49:23 pm
We then reconstructed the land profiles to the approximate positions in
which they should have been before the catastrophe. We re-contoured the whole area, raising the north coast by 6,000 feet; the south coast by 11,000 feet; and the intervening area proportionally to the adopted gradient. The result was the outline map shown below.

It was now possible to visualise a great island about the size and shape of Spain, with high mountain ranges rising over 12,000 feet above sea level and impressive rivers running in curving valley systems. In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3,500 square miles, and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, and we shall sea, points in common with the great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the Island of Atlantis.

The study on which we have embarked has two parts. The first is to establish that a large island could have existed in mid-Atlantic in Pre-historic times; the second is to determine whether there could have been a connection between the inhabitants of such an island and our heroes - The Shining Ones.

In our judgement, the first of these parts has been successfully determined; and it is proper, therefore, to proceed with an examination of Plato's detailed description of Atlantis and its inhabitants.

Extract from Chapter 18 The Shining Ones by Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien!


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:49:44 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:50:21 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed3.jpg)
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/azoresisland2.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:51:00 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/sanmiguel2.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:54:27 pm
Scientist: Man in Americas earlier than thought
Archaeologists put humans in North America 50,000 years ago
By Marsha Walton and Michael Coren
CNN

Wednesday, November 17, 2004 Posted: 2:17 PM EST (1917 GMT)

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/TECH/science/11/17/carolina.dig/story.tool.gif)

One of the stone tools discovered in South Carolina made by early inhabitants.

(CNN) -- Archaeologists say a site in South Carolina may rewrite the history of how the Americas were settled by pushing back the date of human settlement thousands of years.
An archaeologist from the University of South Carolina today announced radiocarbon tests that dated the first human settlement in North America to 50,000 years ago -- at least 25,000 years before other known human sites on the continent.

"Topper is the oldest radiocarbon dated site in North America," said Albert Goodyear of the University of South Carolina Institute of Archaeology and Anthropology.

If true, the find represents a revelation for scientists studying how humans migrated to the Americas.

Most scientists believe humans' first ventures to the New World were across a land bridge from present-day Russia to Alaska about 13,000 years ago. The new evidence suggests humans crossed the land bridge much earlier -- possibly during an ice age -- to the Americas and rapidly colonized the two continents.

"It poses some real problems trying to explain how you have people (arriving) in Central Asia almost at the same time as people in the Eastern United States," said Theodore Schurr, anthropology professor at the University of Pennsylvania and a curator at the school's museum.

"You almost have to hope for instantaneous expansion...We're talking about a very rapid movement of people around the globe."

Schurr said that conclusive evidence of stone tools similar to those in the old world and uncontaminated radiocarbon dating samples would be needed to verify the findings as old as 50,000 years ago.

"If dating is confirmed, then it really does have a significant impact on our previous understanding of New World colonization," he said.

Modern humans, or homo sapiens, emerged between 60,000 and 80,000 years ago in Africa. Modern humans quickly fanned out to Australia and Central Asia about 50,000 years ago and arrived in Europe only about 40,000 years ago. It was thought until recently that no humans arrived in the New World until about 13,000 years ago. Archaic hominids like australopithecines and Neanderthals have never been found in the New World.

University of Wisconsin at Madison professor, geologist Thomas Stafford, said that the shocking results would shake scientists' theories about human development, but would lead to new ideas.

"It's a slow process," he said. "You have preconceived ideas...Until someone rocks the boat, you really don't think about something new."

Goodyear plans to publish his work in a peer-reviewed scientific journal next year which is the standard method by which scientists announce their findings

Until research is peer-reviewed, objective experts in the field have not necessarily had an opportunity to evaluate a scientist's methods, or weigh in on the validity of his conclusions.

Archaeologists will meet in October of 2005 for a conference in Columbia, South Carolina, to discuss the earliest inhabitants of North America, including a visit to the Topper Site.

Goodyear has been excavating the Topper dig site along the Savannah River since the 1980s. He recovered artifacts and tools last May that are expected to push the date of colonization back before most of the earliest known settlements on the continent.

Goodyear dug four meters (13 feet) deeper than the soil layer containing the earliest North American people, known as the Clovis culture, and began uncovering a plethora of tools.

Scientists and volunteers at the site in Allendale have unearthed hundreds of implements, many stone chisels and tools likely used to skin hides, butcher meat, carve antlers, wood and possibly ivory. The tools were fashioned from a substance called chert, a flint like stone that is found in the region.

These discoveries could push that date back thousands -- maybe even tens of thousands -- of years and demand a new explanation for how the Americas were first settled.

Since the 1930s, archaeologists have generally believed North America was settled by hunters following large game over a land bridge from Russia during the last major ice age about 13,000 years ago.

"That had been repeated so many times in textbooks and lectures it became part of the common lore," said Dennis Stanford, curator of archeology at the Smithsonian Institution. "People forgot it was only an unproven hypothesis."

Land-bridge assumption challenged
A growing body of evidence is prompting some scientists to challenge that assumption.

A scattering of sites from South America to Wisconsin have detected human presence before 13,000 years ago -- or the first Clovis sites -- since the first groundbreaking discovery of human artifacts in a cave near Clovis, New Mexico, in 1936.

These discoveries have led archaeologists to support alternative theories -- such as settlement by sea -- for the Americas.

Goodyear and his colleagues began their dig at the Topper Site in the early 1980s with a goal of finding out more about the Clovis people, long thought to be the earliest people to settle the Americas.

Goodyear thought that because of the resources available along the Savannah River and the moderate climate it would be a good place to look for even earlier human settlers than the Clovis people.


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http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/11/17/carolina.dig/index.html



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:57:40 pm
The mystery of the eighth continent
By P. Lal

PLATO spoke of it some 2500 years ago. Oceanographers have discovered what look like its vestiges, on the floor of the Atlantic. Writers have written about it. Libraries have catalogued it under the category of legends. The scientific community, by and large, has denied that it ever existed.

Yet, there are reasons to believe that Atlantis, the eighth continent, once existed, in the middle of the Atlantic, roughly between Spain, Africa and the Americas, and sank some 11,500 years ago, into the ocean, where it now rests at the bottom.

According to Plato, Atlantis had a powerful empire, with influence on and trade with, the countries on both sides of the Atlantic, the eastern American and the western African and European coasts. It was larger than Libya and Asia put together (here, Libya means North Africa and Asia means Asia minor and parts of the Middle East), from where one could pass through the whole of the "opposite continent". Plato’s reference to the "Opposite Continent" came to be true 2000 years after him, when America was discovered by Columbus. There is no reason why his account of the Atlantis should also not be true.

Plato ascribed his knowledge of Atlantis to the account possessed by Solon, the Athenian law-giver, which he obtained during a journey he made to Egypt. Solon had initially received the information from Egyptian priests who, in turn, had derived the knowledge from hieroglyphics inscribed on temple columns.

It is believed that Atlantis not only had trade relations with Egypt but several of its survivors fled to Egypt as also to other parts of the world when catastrophe struck the Atlantis.

Memories of a vanished island are also preserved in the myths and traditions of the countries and the people all along the Atlantic littoral — on both sides of the ocean. The memory also seems to be instinctively shared even by animals, as eels swim from fresh water rivers in America and Europe, to the Sargasso Sea in the Atlantic, to spawn and die, and migratory birds, during their flight from Europe to South America, circle over the same area, as if looking for a land which once existed and where they rested for a while.

Reference to the Atlantis is found in the ancient literature and records of the people in various parts of the world. Thus, in the Puranas and the Mahabharata of India, there is a mention of Attala, "the white island", a continent located in the western ocean, half a world away from India. In these very texts and some others, the world Atyantika has been used in relation to the final catastrophic destruction. Some of the tribes of north-western Africa near the Atlantic coast were described by ancient writers as Atlantes and Atlantioi who were descendants of Atlantean colonists. The Berber tribes of North Africa believe that there was a kingdom of Attala, off the African coast, with riches of gold and silver which sank into the see in antiquity and which will re-surface one day. It is believed by the Portuguese that Atlantida once existed near Portugal and parts of it, the Azores islands, are still jutting out their peaks from under the sea.

If the golden cities and fertile plains of the Atlantis were destroyed in one quick action, as it appears to be the case, it is all the more reason to find out as to what brought about its doom — whether some natural event or the forces unleashed by its advanced civilisation, for if latter was the case, there is a lesson or two to be learnt by the modern man.

The oldest records of our civilisation written on papyrus, carved on stones or inscribed on clay do not extend beyond 4000 B.C. or say 6000 years. That leaves us with a 6000-year period before we get back to the time-zone of Atlantis.

Plato described Atlantis in the two dialogues he wrote Timaeus and Critias". This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days, the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which you call the Columns of Hercules; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together and was the way to other islands and from the islands, you might pass through the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean", wrote Plato. The oppostie continent obviously meant America discovered much later in the fifteenth century.

What is also remarkable is Plato’s mention of the "other islands" from which one could pass to the opposite continent. These other islands were probably land masses above the sea level before the last glaciation which took place about 11,000 to 12,000 years ago resulting in a rise of 600 to 1,000 feet in the sea-level all over the globe. Before the glaciation, therefore, islands in the Atlantic, like the Azores, Madiera, Cape Verde, Bermuda and the Bahamas, would have been much greater land masses than what they are today. How did Plato know of the existence of the "other islands" on the way to the opposite continent, when the seas were still unchartered during those regions?

Scientists believe that during the last 40 million years, the world has undergone a succession of ice-ages, each spell lasting about 1,00,000 years. The warm times in between — the interglacials — have been rather short, between 10,000 to 12,000 years. The last ice-age ended about 11,000 years ago. (In fact, we are headed for the next ice-age, about 1,000 years hence). The melting of large amounts of ice all over the world resulted in the rise of the sea levels. Cities on coast lines got submerged under water. It is speculated that Atlantis might also have disappeared under the sea at that time, as perhaps the Krishna’s city of Dwarika on the western coast of Gujarat. However, as mentioned in the Mahabharata, Krishna knew of the coming disaster and warned Arjun who evacuated the city in good time. The Egyptian priests spoke to Solon, "a great conflagration of things upon the Earth recurring at long intervals of time: When this happens, those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the sea shore. When, on the other hand, the gods purge the Earth with a deluge of water, among you herdsmen and shepherds on the mountains, are the survivors, whereas those of you who live in cities are carried by rivers into the sea".

According to Plato, the inhabitants of the Atlantis had an advanced irrigation system, harbours on the sea-shore, mighty fleets, large temples, and used gold and another unidentified metal, possibly a gold alloy, called orichalcum. They had a system of land allotment, agriculture, domestic and wild animals, military, government and commerce. "Beginning from the sea, they dug a canal 300 feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the upper most zone, making a passage from the sea upto this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress" "Stadium" was a Greek unit of length which measured 610 feet.

Recent discoveries of unidentified ruins under the Atlantic Ocean where great stone roads or platforms were found fitted into place have given credence to the belief that Atlantis once existed. Members of a deep-sea expedition of the then USSR on board the "Academician Petrovsky", a research ship, photographed seafloors in the Atlantic in 1974, near Horseshoe Archipelago, 300 miles west of Gibraltar. The pictures taken on the summit of Ampere Seamount, rising from 10,000 feet within 200 feet of the suface of the sea, showed remarkable features like stone walls, the masonry block of the walls being upto 1.5 metres high, and the width of the walls being 75 cm the stone staircase cut into the cliff of which the five steps were clearly visible, and levelled off stone platform connected to another staircase. Subsequent expeditions have not only confirmed the finds but discovered more of the type over a wider area.

In 1981, an expedition along the underwater shelf off the Canary Islands disclosed large stone slabs set on the sea bottom at a depth of about 50 feet over an area of 900 sq feet. The stones appeared to be carefully set, and wide stone steps led down from the central pavement. An undersea wall, off the Moroccan coast, extending several miles in length, has also been discovered and photographed.

Besides the theory of the drowning of the Atlantis’ due to the rise in the sea level at the end of the last Ice age, the other theories given out for its sudden disappearance include violent earthquakes, seaquakes and volcanic explosions resulting in its sinking into the sea. The mid-Atlantic ridge, dividing the Atlantic into two almost equal parts, is the highest mountain range, under water, and is situated in the most active seismic zone. In the past few hundred years, there have been several known instances of the appearance and disappearance of islands in the Atlantic, due to the seismic activity of its oceanic floor. Thus, in 1622, the city of Villa Franca, capital of the Azorian island of Sao Maguel fell into the sea due to a sudden seismic convulsion. In 1811, a large volcanic island appeared in the Azores, was given the name Sambrina, and then disappeared into the sea after a few years.

It is also speculated that the advanced civilisation of the Atlantis had tapped unknown sources of energy specially those inherent in the tectonic plate movements which are responsible for earthquakes. Unwise utilisation of this source of energy might have led to its being destroyed in a major earthquake.

Whatever the truth about the Atlantis, the same is bound to be known with the application of modern day tools of research and discovery. Till then, it will remain in the realm of speculation, buried at the bottom of the Atlantic.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99oct03/sunday/head4.htm

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=5


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 09:58:33 pm
1969 begins
The Site of Atlantis, By E. Sykes

I have always held that the best chances of finding traces of Atlantis and of its capital The City of the Golden Gates was off the Azores and I am very glad to see that Dr. Malaise in his new book thoroughly agrees with me as does also M. Framdsen, a Danish Engineer who mapped out the Atlantean plain near the Azores. Here to my mind is the only possible chance of finding Atlantean remains, the site of the wonderful metropolis of Plato is now within easy reach thanks to standard commercial underwater equipment of today. The cost of an expedition using television should not exceed $50,000 and would probably be far less. When one realizes that there must be literally hundreds tons of gold and silver lying about, provided that one knows where to look, the idea certainly has some attraction. Obviously remains will be found all over the place as the range of Atlantean influence was wide. But there were but a couple of cities: The City of the Golden Gates and the City of Transparent Walls, if history has not managed to forget the names of any other. But the only one we can site with accuracy is the City of the Golden Gates. E.S. 1969


What Paul le Cour said about the Corvo Equestrian Statue in 1935. E. Sykes 1969

Translated from Atlantis, Paris No. 60 for July August 1935.

"I was recently asked by one of our readers, Dr. Gibault, about a passage in Book 6 of "Memories d' Outre Tombe" by Chateaubriand which runs as follows:

"It is probable that the Azores were known to the Carthaginians; it is certain that a Phoenician Coins were found on Corvo. The first modern seamen to reach the island found there, it is said, an equestrian statue, with the right arm outstretched and pointing to the West, provided, however that this statue is not the type of fabrication, which adorns the earliest portulans….I supposed, that in the manuscript of Natchez, that Chartas, returning from Europe (Book 7 of Natchez), made landfall on Corvo and came across the mysterious statue." Dr. Bibault continued: "Do you not think that perhaps on reality? In that case what kind of monument is in question? Of what period is it? What did it represent? Does it still exist? Why did Chateaubriand query the picture which might well have been reproduction of the statue??" Le Cour stated that at that time he had nothing which would confirm the story or not. However in the 33 years which have elapsed since the article was written we have managed to turn up quite a lot of fresh data. But what one would like to see would be the portulan in which was included the drawing of the statue. Le Cour continued by referring to the stela depicting an Atlantean Temple which was discovered on San Miguel, and of which a photograph was seen shortly before the writing of the article, by M. Matila Ghyka. During his stay on the island he endeavored, without success, to see the photograph in the museum at Los Angeles, but instead learnt from M. Vasco Benisaude that in the multi volume set of the Archives of the Azores which was in his library, there was a mention of the discovery of the grotto containing the stele, on San Miguel. The article concludes that le Cour was still awaiting the receipt of a copy of the photograph from M. Ghyka. He had also heard that the stele was in a museum in Bombay but had no idea how it got there. Inquiries made in 1966-67 to Bombay produced no result, while the son or grandson of M. Benisaude was unable to help us about the records. It seems evident that if it is desired to make a cross check on this story as against that told in the manuscript of Thevet, the only way will be to visit the island of San Miguel. I have no idea who M. Ghyka was or whether he left any papers behind. That the information is still to be found there seems reasonably certain. E. Sykes 1969

A New Deal in Geology, By E. Sykes (a summary)

Dr. Malaise published two Swedish editions on the subject of Atlantis and his main point was:

"Geologically it is impossible for Atlantis not to have existed." And here is the Chapter points-

Our Knowledge of the interior of the Earth.
The Constriction Theory of Nils Odhner.
The Last Ice Age, its causes and the Geographical Effects.
The bed of the Ocean and the submerged land region.
The Mediterranean and the Atlantean Continent.
The Significance of Atlantis in Early Human Culture and its relationship of Early American Man.
Unsolved Problems of the Permo Carboniferous and Earlier Ice Ages.
"His work has no emotional background of any kind, every source can be verified and checked and, what is more he was able to make full use of the sources available at through the Swedish Museum of Natural History during a long and distinguished career there."


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Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:02:14 pm
Perhaps the Mid Atlantic Ridge was Atlantis. Between 1872-1876, scientists aboard the HMS Challenger discovered the Mid Atlantic Ridge (Encyclopedia Britannica, 25:168:1a). The Mid Atlantic Ridge is a submerged mountain range on the Atlantic Ocean's floor. The ridge extends 10,000 miles from north to south, in an S-shaped path. The ridge reaches a width of 1,000 miles. Some of the mountains of the ridge are above sea level, and are islands. Some of those islands are the Azores, Ascension, and St. Helena (Encyclopedia Britannica, 8:106:2b). Most of the Mid Atlantic Ridge is covered to a depth of 3,000 meters (Galanopoulos, p. 53).
Plato's writings also indicate that numerous artesian wells (natural fountains) were on the earth in ancient times. Perhaps this was the result of the Great Flood, after which the continents were saturated with water that took centuries to drain into the oceans.

From Critias
...[The land] let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying. (http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/critias_page3.html)
Guanche Legend

The Canary Islands are a group of Spanish-owned islands in the Atlantic Ocean, off the northwest coast of Africa. The aborigines of the Canary Islands, called the "Guanches" (whose culture is now extinct), believed in a Supreme, Almighty and Eternal God. They also believed in a devil (Gil, pp. 31-32). The Guanches were related to the Berbers of North Africa, and were conquered by the Spanish in the 15th century (Encyclopedia Britannica, 2:793:3b).

[The Guanches] ...had a brown complexion, blue or gray eyes, and blondish hair... Their food staples consisted mainly of milk, butter, goat flesh, pork, and some fruits; and their clothing comprised leather tunics or vests made of plaited rushes... they were known to have been monotheists (Encyclopedia Britannica, 5:532:1a).

From Charles Berlitz's book, The Lost Ship of Noah:
The inhabitants of the Canary Islands were white-skinned, of tall and muscular stature, and many were blond-haired and blue-eyed. They were officially discovered in 1395 by Jean de Bethencourt, a French nobleman in the service of Spain. When the Spanish landed they could not communicate with the natives, who spoke no language known to the Spaniards. When the islanders had learned enough Spanish to communicate they told the surprised Spanish visitors that they could not understand where the men and ships had come from as they believed that the Great Flood had drowned everyone in the world except themselves. Once, they said, their ancestors had lived in a large land with great cities, fertile plains, and rivers, but a flood had covered it, and only a few people who had been able to flee to the high mountains had survived. The islands where they now were living once were the mountaintops of their vanished homeland. The waters receded but (and they pointed to the surrounding Atlantic Ocean) were still there. This curious tradition with its suggestion of Atlantis, the Flood, a civilization destroyed by the waters, and survivors who fled to the mountains, was never sufficiently researched by the Spanish conquerors who, within a short time, annihilated the native population in a series of wars. Their language too was lost..." (Berlitz, pp. 132-3).

I pulled the following information off of a Spanish Internet web site in the Summer of 1996. The author is unknown, and I lost the web site URL. I am including this information, however, because it is interesting to note that the Spanish continue to hypothesize as to how the Guanche people originally arrived at the Canary Islands, even though the Guanches themselves told the Spaniards that the Guanches escaped to the mountains from a flood of rising water, and that those mountains became islands when the water remained, stranding the Guanche people. The Spanish, apparently, continue to disbelieve the Guanche legend, which, based on the information presented in this article, may have been the truth. The passage below was originally in Spanish; I translated it into English.

The Europeans 'discovered' the Canary Islands in the first half of the 14th century. They found a people who were later named "Guanches," who today continue to be surrounded with many mysteries. Where did they come from? How did they get to the islands? When did they arrive?
Certainly, they must have arrived via the ocean. They arrived accompanied by their domesticated animals: goats, sheep, pigs, and dogs. They carried wheat and barley with them. They originated from North Africa. They share the same roots as the Berbers of the Atlas region. This simple affirmation has cost rivers of ink and very long discussions, in which archaeology and ethnography mix with politics.
Just as the European conquerors said, the Guanches were "of the white race, tall, muscular, very beautiful, and there were many blondes among them." Their great height, it is understood, was relative to the medium height of the Europeans of that period of time. Regarding the presence of blondes: even today, after many centuries of invasions and mixing of genes, one can find the traits of blonde hair and blue eyes among the Berbers of the African Atlas region...
The ancestors of the Guanches arrived by sea, colonized the islands, and forgot how to use a boat! When the Europeans arrived at the Canaries, they found a people who lived in a neolithic culture, based on sheep herding, fruit harvesting, and very limited farming. This [culture] was common among all of the islands, but on each, [the people] had developed a microcosm to the extent that [the people of each island] had developed their own dialects [of the Guanche language]. The islands disconnected the peoples from each other; the natives did not know how to use boats, and fished only along the coastlines. This is one of the enigmas of the Guanches. How is it possible that a people arrived via the ocean to these small islands, lived surrounded by the ocean, had, on various islands, enormous forests and large trees of premium material for boat building, yet were ignorant of the sea and lived a backward lifestyle? There are a number of hypotheses: perhaps the inhabitants of the Canaries were simply passengers, shepherds transported by mariners, who were later forgotten and lost their luck.
It is unreasonable to think that the Guanche people forgot how to use boats, even to travel among the Canary Islands. It seems that if the Guanche people's ancestors had ever used boats, Guanche oral tradition would have said so. It is more reasonable to think that the Guanches never had boating technology. Again, the above passage shows that Spanish hypothesists continue to ignore the Guanche legend that sea level rose, turning mountains into the Canary Islands. Rather, the Spanish hypothesize that the Guanches somehow arrived by sea via boat, and then forgot how to use boats. Based on the information presented in this article, however, the Guanche legend that sea level rose, stranding the Guanche people on mountains that became islands, may have been the truth.


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http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/3021/peleg.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:05:11 pm
Atlantis
Strange Places: The Lost Contient of Atlantis
Created 7/26/2001 - Updated 11/11/2004 


(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/atlantis.jpg)
"There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes. ... Just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with ... requisites of civilized life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times ... " (- Plato, 347 B.C. )


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:06:54 pm
Why do some believe in the lost continent of Atlantis? The Reasonable Persons' Guide next searches the net for the fabled sunken land mass. Text borrowed from Viatcheslav Koudriavtsev appears light green text. 1

"Atlantis - according to an ancient Greek myth recorded by Plato, there had once existed a vast island in the Atlantic Ocean to the west of Gibraltar, with fertile soil and densely populated, which sank to the bottom of the sea because of an earthquake. Questions of whether Atlantis has ever existed, and if so, why it vanished, today continue to arouse as much controversy among scientists as ever."

 Map Web Sites


Here are a few on line maps you can use to hunt for Atlantis:

Atlapedia, Expedia, Map Quest, MapBlast, National Geographic.

 On The Source

Plato's dialogs "Timæus" and "Critias" (347 B.C.) may or may not be the first texts which refer to Atlantis, but they are most likely the first to spell it that way.Some claim that the Vishnu Purana (2000 B.C.), the oldest of the Hindu Puranas, tells of "Atala", the "White Island" 2 , but other's disagree saying that "Atala" is one of the seven or islands (" dwipas") "belonging to the nether lokas, one of the seven regions of Patala (the antipodes)." 2 Let's hear about Plato first.


Timeaus and Critias entertain Socrates with "not a fiction but a true story" about the conflict between the ancient Athenians and the Atlantians 9000 years before Plato's time.

Plato speaks of Atlantis in two works -dialogues "Timaeus" and "Critias". Dialogue was a genre widely popular in Ancient Greece, in which information or ideas are not narrated by the author himself, but are presented to the reader by two or more interlocutors addressing each other. Such a genre is convenient for presenting differing views on the same subject and, besides, makes it possible to render the experience cited in support of the deliberations, concrete to the utmost. Therefore, the genre of the ancient Greek dialogues should not be seen merely as short-hand records of actual conversations.

In both dialogues the story of Atlantis is told by a person whose name is Critias, who, according to one of the existing viewpoints, was Plato's maternal great grandfather (1). He narrates word for word to Socrates, Timaeus and Hermocrates, staying at his home, the conversation between Solon and an Egyptian priest. In "Timaeus" the issue of Atlantis is raised along with many others, while the unfinished "Critias", in all probability, was to be exclusively devoted to it. Critias also explains how he himself came to hear the story. He heard it from his grandfather whose name was also Critias, who, in turn, had heard it from Solon himself, who had been a close friend of his father, Dropides.

In his conversation with Solon, the priest, referring to the sacred records, speaks of a powerful country, Atlantis, lying outside the Pillars of Hercules, of the beginning of a war between Atlanteans and the citizens of Athens and of a catastrophe which destroyed both, and resulted in Atlantis sinking to the bottom "in a single dreadful day and night".



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:07:37 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig2.jpg)

The priest also says how many years have elapsed since - nine thousand years. Besides, "Critias" contains the myth of the origin of the rulers of Atlantis, the description of its geography, architecture and of its social life, all of which suggests the idea of imagination having been used to make up for the lack of information.

There are several viewpoints on when the dialogues actually took place; similarly, debate continues on correlating the participants in the dialogues, with the historical personalities known from other sources. A question is even raised as to whether it is possible that Plato may have depicted himself as Critias's fourth guest, who did not show up for the conversation because of illness (1). But since different answers to these questions can only change the date of the dialogues by about 20 years at the most, it can be assumed that the dialogues took place around the year 425 B.C., as one of the most widespread viewpoints holds (though Plato himself must only have been about 2 years old at the time). Critias-grandson, Plato's great grandfather, was probably about 80 at the time, and he had heard the story about 70 years before (i.e. around the year 495 B.C.), from Critias-grandfather, when the latter was about 90. Since Critias-grandfather had heard it from Solon himself, who belonged to the same generation as his father, it can be reasonably assumed that the conversation between Solon and the Egyptian priest took place around 600-575 B.C.

Thus, it follows that, according to Plato, Atlantis vanished in the middle of the 10th millennium B.C.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:07:58 pm
Keftiu

There is an Egyptian myth similar to Atlantis called "Keftiu" that Koudriavtsev does not mention. Keftiu, was an ancient island nation, an advanced civilization that was the gateway to and ruler of all of the lands to the far west of Egypt (Greece, Libya, and beyond). Egyptian records say that Keftiu was destroyed by the seas in an apocalypse. It is possible that Solon carried the legends of Keftiu to Greece then passed them on to his son and grandson, hence the appearance in Plato's writings.

Ancient records of Keftiu contain a number of similarities to Plato's Atlantis, so he may have been retelling (and renaming) the story of Keftiu.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:08:43 pm
Indonesia

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig1.jpg)

Some say the Egyptian story came from an earlier source, namely, from the Hindus in Punt (now Indonesia). Punt was the Ancestral Land (To-wer), the Island of Fire where the Egyptians originated. The Hindus called the sunken continent "Atala" (or "Atalas"), a name remarkably similar to "Atlas" and "Atlantis".  In Dravida, "the pristine language of Indonesia", the suffixes "tis" or "tiv" are "mountain" or "island". (pronounced "tiw"). Therefore, Keftiu of the Egyptians is from Kap-tiv = "capital island". We can see that both the words "Keftiu" and "Atlantis" have roots in the ancient Indonesian language. Indonesia itself being a sunken continent makes a strong argument that Indonesia is itself Atlantis.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:09:12 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig15.jpg)

According to Prof. Arysio Nunes dos Santos. (arysio@atlan.org) of the Atlantis Homepage www.atlan.org during the last Glacial Period water in the continental glaciers made the sea level 330 to 490 feet lower. The shallow bottom of the South China Sea was completely exposed, forming a vast expanse of continental dimensions. Two of the largest volcanic eruptions in recorded history, Krakatoa and Tambora have been in Indonesia. As the theory goes, a previous eruption of Krakatoa about 10,000 years ago caused a huge Tsunami that did indeed wipe out Atlantis in one terrible day and night. The resulting black soot covered much of the earth including the glaciers. As black surfaces absorb more heat, this caused the glaciers to melt and the seas to rise, permanently covering Indonesia/Atlantis. Plato also mentions seas that are impossible to navigate. This is true of the South China Sea (Indonesia) today due to kelp forests and would have been true due to muck from the volcanic eruption then.

Another supporting claim is that the distribution of O Blood Types shows a migration from Indonesia to Europe via the Indian and the Atlantic Oceans as in the legends of Celts, the Romans and Greeks. The origin of an O-blooded population may be primeval Indonesia and the sunken lands of the region, possibly the site of Atlantis.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:09:58 pm
Canary Islands


(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig16.jpg)

If you follow the belief that Atlantis is the Hindu "Atala" or "Atalas" then the Purana locates Atala geographically on the seventh (heat, or climate) zone. According to Col. Wilford (the translator) this is 24 to 28 degrees North latitude: the same latitude as the Canary Islands just off the North African coast. One of the more famous Indian works called the Mahabharata, contains several accounts of a powerful islandic empire in the Atlantic. In these accounts, the island named Atala sank to the bottom during a horrendous war. Atala, "the White Island," is described as an "island of great splendor," and located in the "Western Ocean" (Santi Parva, Section CCCXXXVII).

 Even more remarkably, there is a circular-shaped capital city (Tripura) as in Plato's account. The famed city, with all its inhabitants, is sent burning to the bottom of the ocean (Karna Parva, Section XXXIII).

As still further support, Atala is said to be inhabited by "white men who never have to sleep or eat". (Santi Parva, Section CCCXXXVII) Herodotus, the Greek historian from 450 B.C. describes a tribe of Atlanteans who "never dream and eat no living thing". (History, Book IV). Finally, the god Poseidon is very much involved in the Atlantis story, and likewise in the Sanskrit accounts Varuna (the Hindu Poseidon) is also very much involved with Atala.

So there you have it. Are any more? Sure!



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:10:42 pm
Bermuda Triangle

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig11.jpg)

The Bermuda Triangle, is not really much of a triangle at all. It is supposedly bounded by Florida, Bermuda, and Puerto Rico, but take a look at the map of major ship and plane disappearances and you can see that it's more of a blob. 

The Bermuda blob shape has also been called the Devil's Triangle and a few other things. ( NEW: See our article on the strange creature known as the Bermuda blob. ) Numerous planes and ships have vanished there without a trace, often in good weather or near a landing site or port. It was named in 1945, after the disappearance of six Navy planes and their crews on December 5, a sunny, calm day with ideal flying conditions. Prior to that scores of ships of all sizes reportedly had vanished in the area. As the theory goes, forces emanating from the unknown ruins of Atlantis are responsible for disrupting the instruments of the craft.

I know of no other reason to connect the Triangle to Atlantis at this time.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:11:18 pm
The Azores

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig12.jpg)

The Azores are a group of islands belonging to Portugal located about 900 miles (1500 km) west of the Portuguese coast. Some believe the islands are the mountain tops of the sunken continent of Atlantis.

 The climate in Northwest Europe changed radically caused by the arrival of the Gulf Stream at around 10,000 B.C. (the end of the last Ice Age). If a big island in the location of the Azores was stopping the gulf stream from hitting Northwest Europe, then it suddenly sank, this would explain the climate change and the tale of Atlantis.

 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:13:04 pm
Thera (Santorini)
 The island of Thera, today an active volcano is also known as Santorini. It is located due north of Crete in the Aegean Sea. Thera's eruption in 1,650 B.C. was one of the largest (VEI=6) in the last 10,000 years.


(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig14.jpg)(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig13.jpg)

The devastating volcanic explosion may have contributed to the sudden downfall of the Minoan civilization. If the Egyptians read the story in the Minoan language called "Linear A" they might have easily confused the symbol for 100 and the one used for 1000 introducing an error factor of 10. This would put the destruction of Atlantis at 900 year instead of 9000 years before Plato and it would then coincide with the eruption of Thera.

The Minoans could have been advanced and feared enough at the time to have the myth created, but Thera is not large enough to coincide with the story. Also there is no sinking involved, just an eruption.

 Antarctica

The key to this theory is that Antarctica used to be temperate but switched to a more frozen climate due to tectonic plate shifting which occurs every couple thousand of years. This explains Plato's description of a large continent bigger than Asia and Libya and it matches original size described and coastal description of Plato's original map. This also fits with other conspiracy theories regarding Antarctica and it explains why no one has found it. On the minus side, geologists do not believe the earth's crust has or ever could shift that much. Therefore, there would be no way for Antarctica to have been in the Atlantic ocean or for the story to reach Egypt and later Greece. Also, there is no satellite evidence or first person evidence of anything existing in Antarctica...yet.

Now back to Koudriavtsev's work ...



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:14:23 pm
Phenomenon Of Atlantis


Hardly anyone in the world knows exactly how many books have been written about Atlantis by the proponents and opponents of the idea that it existed once in the past. Those who have attempted to count them, come up with widely diverging, albeit invariably four-digit numbers. I, for one, have seen bibliographies containing over 500 titles. No doubt, the topic of Atlantis could claim its place among he best-selling topics of the current century.

The special attention that Plato's narration about Atlantis gets can be accounted for by the fact that the country described in "Timaeus" and "Critias" does not fit in with our present-day ideas of the history of humanity, and the date of its vanishing, as recorded by Plato, goes back to unprecedentedly early times. If we treat this narration as trustworthy, a new and more comprehensive model of the history of mankind's development is essential. The idea seems attractive to many, in view of the numerous blank spots and contradictions in the existing concept of the history of humanity (for instance, such as the vast span of time between the emergence of an anatomically modern Homo Sapiens and the development of the first civilizations, the dating of which, by the way, is receding into the past, coming ever closer to the time when Atlantis existed according to the dialogues, as new archaeological data emerge), all the more so, that the text which could bring about a revision of the existing model is authored by Plato, who stands with Socrates and Aristotle as one of the shapers of the whole intellectual tradition of the West.

At the same time, most scholars believe that Plato's narrative about Atlantis stands by itself, that it is not directly corroborated or indirectly echoed by anything, and in itself does not give sufficient grounds for such a revision. The mention of Atlantis by the ancient historian Diodor of Sicily in his "Historical Library" is not considered by most scholars to constitute a reliable cross-reference, since it was made three centuries after Plato, whose works Diodor must have been familiar with.

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig3.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:14:41 pm
Regrettably, most of the Atlantis enthusiasts are swayed by emotions, and this lures them away from the commitment to scientific correctness. Many researchers into the issue have been engaged in searching for, and making a collection of, similarities in the material culture and languages of the peoples of the Old and the New Worlds, but their finds make it possible to pose some questions rather than give well-substantiated answers to them. The more ardent enthusiasts even claim that they have found in the epos (? -Xeno) of many peoples of the world what they call "direct indications" of the Atlantean descent of these peoples. Deluded by wishful thinking, they often fall prey to perverted logic: "If the 'Belt of Pyramids' exists, it follows that Atlantis also existed in reality."

If we add to the above-listed that the topic of Atlantis has long been attracting un diminishing interest of mystics and occultists of all stripes, UFOlogists and other people like that, who would like to indulge in their fantasies of the "Mystical Crystals of Atlanteans" or of the secret storage places of Atlanteans' bodies in Tibet, it becomes clear why the problem has virtually become something of a scientific curiosity and is only suitable for another film about the adventures of Doctor Indiana Jones. This is the reason why even if scientific data coming to light as time goes by, are interpreted in the context of Atlantis, as a rule, it is done in a biased way and has little in common with a balanced scientific approach.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:15:05 pm
Fact or Fiction? Viewpoints

Without claiming to present an exhaustive survey of the existing viewpoints on the issue, I would like to list only the ones I believe to be the most widespread.

* Some believe that Atlantis is Plato's invention from beginning to end, which he needed to expound his ideas of an ideal state.

* Others, who do not consider Plato's narration to be an invention, persevere in trying to interpret it in a way which would make it possible to link it with the already explored archaeological sites. Thus, some of them contend that none other than the island of Crete is Plato's Atlantis, claiming also that Greeks used the name of the Pillars of Hercules, mentioned by Plato, not for what is now called the Strait of Gibraltar, but for some rocks which were situated on the way from Athens to Crete. Given such an interpretation, it becomes imperative for them to bring the date of the vanishing of Atlantis given by Plato, in line with the time of the decline of the Minoan civilization, established by archaeologists, and link it to the explosion of Thera/Santorin.

Hence, rise is given to the hypothesis that the span of time between the vanishing of Atlantis and the conversation between Solon and the priest is actually 10 times shorter, and that the mistake was made either when Egyptian priests were copying the sacred records (it is suggested that the characters denoting 100 and 1000 in the Egyptian system of writing are alike) or because Plato himself, like all his contemporaries, had little sense of time and dating. The same thesis of a mistake of multiplication by ten is used by the proponents of the Cretan Atlantis as regards the dimensions of the island, for the numbers Plato gives in "Critias" do not quite fit in with their theory, to put it mildly. Similar arguments are used to substantiate a variety of hypotheses, including some according to which Atlantis was situated not even in the Mediterranean Sea, but in the Sea of Marmaraor the Black Sea.

* Yet others, fervently believing in the truthfulness of the information provided by Plato, rush to search for Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean. They have already announced, at different times, that the Azore, Canary and Bahama Islands, as well as some other more or less suitable ones, are the remains of Plato's sunken island. They also like to juggle with suggestions of mistakes in the numerals as regards the dimensions of Atlantis.

Let us endeavor to analyze once again Plato's narration, comparing its basic elements and their interpretations with some fairly credible facts, and try to formulate one more hypothesis, which, in my opinion, hardly has more weak points, vulnerable to criticism, than the already existing ones.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:15:34 pm
Plato's Invention?

First of all, it is highly doubtful that Plato would have had to invent Atlantis to expound his ideas of an ideal state system, - indeed, he had previously expounded them more than once in his other works, without any geographical hoaxes.

Secondly, in "Timaeus" itself there already exists - and is actively used by Plato - an object only too suitable for setting forth utopian concepts - the pre-historic Athens, so the supposition that Plato needed to invent specifically for the purpose a second, let alone such an exotic one as Atlantis, seems rather far-fetched.

Thirdly, it is not clear how the assumption that under the name of Atlantis Plato depicted an ideal state, correlates with the fact that in "Critias" none other than Plato himself had already exposed the "degeneration" and decline that preceded the vanishing of Atlantis.

And fourthly, the explanation of how the information of Atlantis came to Plato's notice, does not seem to contain logical contradictions, which in itself enhances its credibility. It also sounds convincing that events of such ancient history are narrated to Solon by none other than an Egyptian priest, and the way he explains why Greeks had lost their historical memory.


"You are all [Greeks] young in mind," came the reply: "you have no belief rooted in old tradition and no knowledge hoary with age. And the reason is this. There have been and will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water, lesser ones by countless other means...

But in our temples we have preserved from earliest times a written record of any great or splendid achievement or notable event which has come to our ears whether it occurred in your part of the world or here or anywhere else; whereas with you and others, writing and the other necessities of civilization have only just been developed when the periodic scourge of the deluge descends, and spares none but the unlettered and uncultured, so that you have to begin again like children, in complete ignorance of what happened in our part of the world or in yours in early times...



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:17:52 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig4.jpg)

You remember only one deluge, though there have been many, and you do not know that the finest and best race of men that ever existed lived in your country; you and your fellow citizens are descended from the few survivors that remained, but you know nothing about it because so many succeeding generations left no record in writing". (Tim. 22d-23c)

Of course, the archaeological data on which modern ideas of the past of humanity are based, is vast. But the history of Earth has seen a lot of natural cataclysms of enormous proportions, and we cannot completely discard the possibility that the historical memory of humanity has indeed been curtailed, due to the destruction of material evidence by a catastrophe more violent than the ones we know of in the so-called "historical time". (Just imagine what the picture of life on Earth in the 19th century would have looked like a thousand years later, if both Europe and North America had been erased from the face of Earth by some catastrophe.)

In my opinion, the most serious argument in favor of the assumption that Atlantis had not been invented by Plato, is that the time when it vanished, as indicated by Plato, and the circumstances of its vanishing described by him (the sinking into the deep of the sea) coincide with the data which, no doubt, were inaccessible to Plato, on the time of the end of the last Ice Age and a substantial rise of the level of the World Ocean that accompanied it.

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=5

http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0011.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:34:53 pm
Time Error?

Assertions that Plato had a vague idea of time and chronology do not seem well-substantiated. As can be seen from his works, Plato was fairly mathematically-minded, since, apparently, he was under the influence of the Pythagorean school. Besides, there is such a natural approximate measure for assessing large spans of time as a generation, and it does not seem likely that Plato did not perceive the distinction between a period covering the life spans of several tens of generations and that encompassing several hundreds of generations. (Hardly anyone would assert that Plato had a vague idea of the distinction between tens and hundreds.)

Any assertion that Solon may have made a mistake in reading the Egyptian hieroglyphs he did not know sufficiently well, should be discarded as Plato explicitly says that Solon did not read the sacred records himself, but was told of their contents by the priest.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:35:22 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig5.jpg)

Another reason for the mistake of multiplication by 10 might have been the misunderstanding by Solon of the numerals in the Egyptian priest's story, which is highly improbable, since, firstly, there are several numerals in the story, and, secondly, the spans of time which these numerals describe are interrelated in the priest's story.

"Solon was astonished at what he heard and eagerly begged the priests to describe to him in detail the doings of these citizens of the past. "I will gladly do so, Solon," replied the priest, "both for your sake and your city's, but chiefly in gratitude to the Goddess to whom it has fallen to bring up and educate both your country and ours - yours first, when she took over your seed from Earth and Hephaestus, ours a thousand years later. The age of our institutions is given in our sacred records as eight thousand years, and the citizens whose laws and whose finest achievement I will now briefly describe to you therefore lived nine thousand years ago; we will go through their history in detail later on at leisure, when we can consult the records." (Tim. 23d-24a)

However, if we do assume that Solon misunderstood the priest, it would be difficult to imagine an Egyptian priest who, around the year 600 B.C. gives the age of civilization in the Nile Valley as 800 years. And it would be an outright impossibility to assume that sacred records could have contained such nonsense, and that "nine thousand years" only appeared in the story in the process of copying, as a result of an accidental substitution of the character denoting thousands for another one, denoting hundreds.

Yet another argument against the alleged mistake of multiplication by ten is the fact that none of the sources dealing with the second millennium B.C., contains any reference to an Atlantis less ancient than the one described by Plato in his narrative about Atlantis, and consequently, either his narrative, after all, is a hoax, or it is really a case of information lost and accidentally retrieved - information going back to a much earlier period.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:36:08 pm
Dimensions

In "Critias" it is said that the capital city of Atlanteans is surrounded by a plain 2,000 x 3,000 Stades (approximately 370 x 550 km). As we have already said, proponents of various hypotheses requiring some adjustment of Plato's data to suit the existing convenient sites, are fond of using the assertion of a numerical mistake consisting in the multiplication of numerals by ten, not only as regards the time, but also the dimensions of the plain. That is why everything we said above about such a method of interpreting Plato being unable to stand up to criticism from the viewpoint of logic, is applicable to these figures, too.

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig6.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:36:21 pm
And in general, if it is suggested that almost all the numerical data are erroneous and should be revised, then, in my opinion, the whole thing becomes somewhat absurd: would it not be easier to cross out Plato's narrative of Atlantis and write their own instead, the parameters of which would be acceptable for them, than attempt to logically substantiate the ultimate dotage ascribed to Plato.

There is yet another argument testifying to the fact that there had never been any mistake of multiplication by ten as regards the dimensions. Plato said that Atlantis was "larger than Asia and Libya combined" (Tim. 24e). Even if we presume that Asia here stands for what is now called the Near East - just a small part of the Asian continent, and Libya - for a small part of North Africa, it is difficult to believe that Plato would describe a territory several dozens kilometers wide, as larger in size than the two of them.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:36:37 pm
Pillars of Hercules (Heracles)

It would also seem expedient now to dot all the i's and cross all the t's concerning what Plato calls the Pillars of Hercules. Let us read the passage on the parts of territory allotted to Poseidon's sons:

"His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles and facing the district now called Gadira, was called in Greek Eumelus but in his own language Gadirus..." (Critias. 114b)

In Plato's time, ancient Greeks used the name of Gadirus for the city which was situated where modern Cadiz stands now, on the Atlantic coast of the Pyrenean Peninsula, not far from Gibraltar.

Diodor of Sicily in his "Historical Library" writes about Phoenicians as follows:

"...started going beyond the Pillars of Hercules to the sea called the Ocean. And shortly built a city called Gadirus on the peninsula in Europe, close to the strait situated at the Pillars..." (6)

We can only imagine how much the proponents of the Cretan hypothesis must want to adjust Plato's narrative to that hypothesis, to find on the way from Athens to Crete some rocks which allegedly were called the Pillars of Hercules.

Had such rocks really existed, and had Crete or Santorin really been Atlantis, then for the Egyptian priest its inhabitants would have been those who lived "inside the Pillars", while the inhabitants of Athens would have been those who lived "outside the Pillars".



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:37:12 pm
Where was Atlantis?

If we accept as trustworthy Plato's data concerning the time when Atlantis existed, and its dimensions, and if we resist the temptation of placing this enigmatic land somewhere in the Mediterranean Sea, a question arises of where in the Atlantic it was situated and where it is possible to find some evidence of its existence there in the past.

Modern geology has a wealth of data on the geological structure of the seabed of the Atlantic Ocean. All of it, with the exception of the parts of the shelf which are the margins of the continental platforms, is constituted by the oceanic crust. This fully agrees with the notions of the process of the formation of the Atlantic Ocean which exist within the framework of plate tectonics hypothesis, which holds that the continental plates drifted apart from the Mid-Atlantic rift, which was subsequently filled by the magma, which constitutes the oceanic crust (15).

(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig7.jpg)


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:37:28 pm
The map of the Atlantic Ocean bears it out graphically that the outlines of all the continental platforms facing the ocean, ideally fit in with the line of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, connected with the earth-crust rift, from which the continents "are sliding apart"; Africa, South and North Americas, Greenland, Scandinavia and Europe make up a perfectly fitting mosaic, in which there simply is no room for an allegedly lost fragment, particularly of such dimensions as Plato described (See map of the Atlantic Ocean). Besides, today there are no objective data that could give grounds for raising the question that there may have been a subsidence of the earth-crust in the Atlantic Ocean commensurate in scale with the sinking of a big island or a small continent, not only in the last dozens of thousands of years, but even in the whole time of the Atlantic Ocean's existence, which amounts to many dozens of millions of years.

On the other hand, as has already been mentioned, the time when Atlantis vanished, as given by Plato, precisely coincides with the end of the last Ice Age (I would like to remind the readers that Plato speaks of the 10th millennium B.C.). Meanwhile, the changes of the ice sheets volume are closely connected with the so-called glacio-eustatic changes of the sea level, and it is known that during the last glaciation the sea level was considerably lower than at present because a great amount of water was bound up in glaciers.

There are various methods making it possible to come to conclusions about the glacio-eustatic fluctuations in the sea level during the last glaciation, but there is no uniform, commonly recognized notion of the magnitude and the dynamics of these processes. According to the estimates of most researchers, during the maximum of the last glaciation (18-16 thousand years ago) the sea level was 100-170 meters lower than at present:

Due to problems of encoding and fonts, the titles of the Russian sources are given in English translation and marked with an asterisk. [ See table in original work.]

In my opinion, the reconstruction of the glacio-eustatic fluctuations of the sea level at the end of the last glaciation by Richard Fairbanks published in 1989 (9), is one of the most convincing ones. It is based on the radio-carbon datings of the remains of Acropora palmata corals, which develop only in the upper 5 meters of water, from the bottom samples taken at various depths in the area of Barbados Island. Fairbanks explains how he took into account the vertical movements of the earth crust in the area where the samples were taken, but makes a special stipulation that the only way to adequately verify these assumptions and the reconstruction as a whole, is to conduct similar research in other regions.

According to this reconstruction by Fairbanks, during the maximum of the last glaciation the sea level was 121+/-5 meters lower than at present.The graph of the rise of the sea level plotted on the basis of both 14C and 230Th/234U dating methods published by Fairbanks and his colleagues a year later (1), shows that at the time we are interested in, i.e. 11-12 thousand years ago, the sea level was lower than now by 90-95 meters, with a fairly fast rise of the sea level by about 35 m taking place precisely at this time.

Unfortunately, most geographical maps accessible to the public, as a rule, have neither the 100-metre nor the 150-metre isodepth lines. The 200-metre isodepth line on the map of the Atlantic Ocean gives only a very approximate idea of how the coastline must have looked at the time of the last glaciation. Even though an obviously lower sea level is taken, it can be seen that in the area of the present Azores and Canaries, which are most often pointed to as the remains of the sunken Atlantis, there had been no sizeable land. It can also be seen that in the west of Europe, where now the North Sea and the Celtic Shelf are situated, to the south of the British Isles, during the last glaciation, at the time when the sea level was lower, there had existed a vast area of land (See map of Northern Atlantic).



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:37:57 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig8.jpg)

Besides, at the time when the Scandinavian ice sheet existed, the earth crust beneath it was isostatically depressed under the weight of its mass, while some distance away from it, the crust was uplifted as a result of the so-called isostatic balancing. It is probable that the area of the Celtic Shelf was situated precisely in this uplifted area, so that the relative sea level there was even lower than the mean level by the value of this isostatic uplifting.

Besides the glacio-eustatic fluctuations of the mean sea level, the data on which, as we can see, cannot be considered exhaustive, and the glacio-isostatic effects, neither the chronological nor the quantitative parameters of which have been studied sufficiently well, the relative sea level in the area which is of interest to us may have also been affected by such a factor, which is difficult to assess, as the geoidal changes of the relative sea level, i.e. the changes caused the changing figure of the Earth, which may take place for various reasons. The magnitude of these geoidal changes in some areas, according to some estimates, during late Pleistocene could amount to 50-100 m (23, 226).

Since there are no direct data on the relative sea level in the area of the Celtic Shelf for the period that is of interest to us, the question of the size of the land that existed there remains open and can be answered definitively only as a result of a thorough geomorphological exploration of the area. But, as we can see, there are reasons to believe that at the time which is of interest to us, the land that existed in the west of Europe could extend to the very edge of the continental platform, which means that the modern Celtic Shelf could well have been a plain precisely about two by three thousand Stades.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:38:16 pm
An Island?

But the Greek word nesos, used by Plato, quite unambiguously is translated as "island", and I have no reasons whatsoever to assume that once upon a time it could have had another meaning as well. In the same vein, the Latin word insula does not seem to allow other interpretations. So, is it possible to equate that area of land in the west of Europe with Plato's Atlantis? I believe, it is, and there are two possible explanations of why the word which means "island" is used for something that actually was not one:

1. What gives grounds for this assumption is what Critias says in the dialogue of the same title about the distortion of names due to their translation from language to language as the story was transmitted:

"Before I begin, a brief word of explanation, in case you are surprised at hearing foreigners so often referred to by Greek names. The reason is this. Solon intended to use the story in his own poem. And when, on inquiring about the significance of the names, he learned that the Egyptians had translated the originals into their own language, he went through the reverse process, and as he learned the meaning of a name wrote it down in Greek. My father had his manuscript, which is now in my possession, and I studied it often as a child. So if you hear names like those we use here, don't be surprised; I have given you the reason." (Critias. 113a-b)

It would seem appropriate to assume that, in being retold and passed so many times over, and in being translated from language to language, and in attempts to grasp the information through the prism of geographic realities which had already changed, a reduction of such notions as "land/ territory/ country" - "island" might have taken place, all the more so that it is unknown if different words existed in the ancient Egyptian language for expressing the notions of "land" and "island"; moreover, there is no information whatsoever about the original (pre-Egyptian) language in which the information which later reached Plato was narrated.

After I have criticized unwarranted assumptions in the Mediterranean hypotheses, and assertions that mistakes had been made in the numerals, the readers may now reproach me for considerably stretching a point in interpreting Plato's narrative. That is why I would like to quote several passages, which, I believe, substantiate the legitimacy of my assumption, if in reading them we abstract ourselves from the word "island" (which I for convenience shall write in slash marks), focusing instead on the context in which it is used.

Of great interest is what Critias says after concluding the description of the capital city of Atlanteans:

"I have given you a pretty complete account of what was told me about the city and its original buildings; I must now try to recall the nature and organization of the rest of the country. To begin with the region as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously; the city was surrounded by a uniformly flat plain, which was in turn enclosed by mountains which came right down to the sea. The plain was rectangular in shape, measuring three thousand Stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand Stades in breadth from the coast. This whole area of the /island/ faced south, and was sheltered from the north winds." (Critias. 117e-118a)

As we see, the description is rather contradictory. The thing is that in the Greek text, after Critias says that having described the city, he will proceed to the narration about the nature of the rest of the territory (tes d allas khoras os e phusis), he actually returns to the description of the city as the place (topos) situated high above the sea level, from which it rises precipitously, after which he contrasts it (de) with the flat plain surrounding the city. Such an interpretation of the logic of the passage is borne out by the use in the same passage of two words - khoras and topos, which semantically must refer to different notions, hence, it was only the city that was situated high above the sea level, but not the plain. And again there is no indication whatsoever of land surrounded by the sea on all sides. The only image evoked by this description is that of a city on a hill rising precipitously from the sea, and the flat plain surrounding it, enclosed on three sides by mountains.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:38:48 pm
(http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0011/fig9.jpg)

This description suits in every detail, the land that once existed in the west of Europe: the mountains are the present Ireland, Great Britain and, possibly, the north-western part of France; the plain itself, which now constitutes the Celtic Shelf to the south of the British Isles fits the dimensions specified by Plato, and the edge of the continental platform faces south-southwest. Not far from this edge, at about 48 d 16-29' N and 8 d 46-59' W, there is a remarkable underwater hill called the Little Sole Bank marked on sufficiently minute maps. The top of the hill is 57 meters (8) below the sea surface, while the average depth around it is 160-170 meters. The hill is located approximately in the middle of the greater length of the plain in question (See map of the Celtic Shelf).

Of course, the coastline of any island should form a closed circuit, and its length can be roughly estimated, as well as the width of the island. Plato's Critias, however, while giving in minute detail the dimensions of the plain adjoining the city, and giving the length of the canal encircling it, says nothing of the dimensions of the island as such, except that it was "larger than Asia and Libya combined". Many researchers into the Atlantis issue also complain that nothing is said about the width of the mountain belt which surrounded the plain on the side of the land.

Besides, it is not quite clear to what we owe the emergence of the stereotype, according to which Atlantis was situated "to the west" of Gibraltar, or "facing" it.

Thomas Taylor's translation reads:

"For at that time the Atlantic sea was navigable, and had an /island/ before that mouth which is called by you the Pillars of Hercules." (Tim. 24e)

Desmond Lee in his translation uses the English word "opposite" to describe the location of Atlantis in relation to the strait:

"For in those days the Atlantic was navigable. There was an /island/ opposite the strait which you call (so you say) the Pillars of Heracles..."

The Greek preposition pro used by Plato in this passage means only that the island was situated "before" the strait, i.e. outside the Mediterranean, which means that the logical extension of its meaning towards denoting "immediately beyond", "right before" or "facing" (which gave rise to the traditional "to the west of") - is nothing but the second-guessing zeal of Plato's translators.

Nowhere does Plato call Atlanteans "islanders"- as a rule, the only specific point he makes is to emphasize the same contrast - that they did not live on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea:

"We must first remind ourselves that in all nine thousand years have elapsed since the declaration of war between those who lived outside and all those who lived inside the Pillars of Heracles." (Critias. 108e)

And this is how he describes the territories controlled by Atlanteans:

"They and their descendants for many generations governed their own territories and many other islands in the ocean and, as has already been said, also controlled the populations this side of the straits as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia." (Critias. 114c)

Let us also note that nowhere does he speak of the territories controlled by Atlanteans in terms of areas, describing only the length of the coastline. In all probability, it is connected with the geographical outlook of the time, shaped by the fact that people travelled mainly by sea, and maybe also by the specific features of population distribution in conditions of the Ice Age.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:39:16 pm
Let us now once again return to the already quoted passage about the distribution of allocations between Poseidon's sons.

In Desmond Lee's translation:

"His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the /island/ towards the Pillars of Heracles and facing the district now called Gadira, was called in Greek Eumelus but in his own language Gadirus..."  (Critias. 114b)

In Thomas Taylor's translation:

"But the twin son that was born immediately after Atlas, and who was allotted the extreme parts of the /island/, towards the pillars of Hercules, as far as to the region which at present from that place is called Gadiric..."

Taylor's translation in this case is closer to the original, since the Greek epi to, like the Latin pars ad, almost always means "as far as to", "right up to", "bordering on". The reader will probably agree that but for the word "island" the description would accurately suit the district in the south of modern Portugal which is the part of Atlantic coast closest to Gibraltar (See map of Western Europe).



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:39:28 pm
2. The narration of Atlantis in Plato's "Critias" begins with the myth of its origins (about Evenor and Leucippe, Poseidon and Cleito), which includes a description that baffles most of the translators and interpreters. Not only is it contradictory in itself, indeed, it contradicts most of the subsequent descriptions of Atlantis, which we have already discussed (as regards the dimensions of the plain and the size of the hill):

"At the center of the island, near the sea, was a plain, said to be the most beautiful and fertile of all plains, and near the middle of this plain about fifty Stades [9.65 km] inland a hill of no great size," (Critias.113b)

- Lee translates, and makes a footnote that by saying "at the center of the island" Plato meant "midway along its greatest length".

Taylor translates the passage as follows:

"Towards the sea, but in the middle of the island, there was a plain..."

In the Latin translation the word media is used here, which means "middle". In Plato's original the phrase katade meson is used, which means "around the middle", "approximately in the middle", with the word mesos (meson is its case form) usually implying the middle of a linear segment, while for the notion of "center" another word exists. Besides, a long island, whose length considerably exceeds its width, must have two longer sides, and if it were really the description of an island, then an indication should have been given, the middle of which side is meant. So, without a stretch, this description could only be understood as the middle of a certain segment of the coastline.

On the other hand, the myth may well go back to a much earlier time, before the maximum of the last glaciation, when the sea level had not yet gone down to its lowest mark, and this place became a hill on the coast of the sea, but was still an island proper (Seemap of the Little Sole Bank). Considering the situation from this viewpoint

- firstly, eliminates all the contradictions, i.e. it becomes clear, why "near the middle of this plain about fifty Stades inland", while the plain measured "three thousand Stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand Stades in breadth from the coast" and was "larger than Asia and Libya combined", and why the hill was "of no great size" while "the region [of the city] as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously";

- secondly, makes it possible to assume that in relation to Atlantis the word "island" is used, because the central part of the city, surrounded by a canal (water ring) and situated on the top of the hill which used to be an island, historically continued to be called "King's Island" or "Poseidon's Island". Hence, possibly, the use of the word "island" in relation to the whole city and country by all who transmitted the narration, including Plato.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:39:44 pm
Diodor of Sicily on Atlantis

It may seem that in justifying the legitimacy of questioning that what Plato persistently calls "an island" was actually one, we digressed too much into the realm of hypothetical assumptions, so let us turn now to the mention of Atlantis contained in the "Historical Library" by Diodor of Sicily. The opponents of the view that Plato's Atlantis really existed in the past, claim this mention cannot be seen as a reliable cross reference source because it was made three centuries after Plato, whose works Diodor, in all probability, was familiar with, but they prefer not to quote it, since its distinction from Plato's narration is all too obvious in its very structure (in particular, it does not contain any information about a war with the pre-historic Athens), in its geographical reference points and in the details of the myths quoted. By the same token, the enthusiasts of searching for Atlantis do like to quote verbatim passages from Diodor of Sicily because the recognition of some geographical details contained in Diodor's writings makes the substantiation of search for the remains of Atlantis not only on Crete or Santorin, but also on most of the islands they have their eye on, highly questionable.

Diodor of Sicily mentions Atlantis in passing as it were, but even the small passages containing at least some meagre indication of where it was situated, cast a serious doubt on the view that Plato's dialogues may have served as a source of inspiration and geographical information for Diodor. They also give us grounds to believe that he could not have been speaking of an island situated in the Mediterranean or "opposite" Gibraltar, but rather - of the outlying areas of the European continent along the whole Atlantic coast:


"...the Atlanteans, dwelling as they do in the regions on the edge of the ocean and inhabiting a fertile territory..." (5) <

"Their first king was Uranus, and he gathered the human beings, who dwelt in scattered habitations, within the shelter of a walled city... and he also subdued the larger part of the inhabited earth, in particular the regions to the west and the north." (Ibid.)

"...the kingdom was divided among the sons of Uranus, the most renowned of whom were Atlas and Cronus. Of these sons Atlas received as his part the regions on the coast of the ocean... " (Ibid.)



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:40:17 pm
Climate

Paleoclimatology today has a wide variety of methods, including paleobotanic ones, which make it possible to forma fairly clear idea of the climate during the last glaciation. Without describing in detail the distribution of climatic zones in the regions of Europe, I would like to note only that the temperature decreased with distance from the sea and with altitude above the sea level much more steeply than in the present conditions, i.e. the climate on the whole was much more continental (21, 34), and the zones with a moderate sea climate most suitable for habitation were located in the not-too-wide strip of land along the seacoasts. (The climatic conditions of all the other territories were so harsh, that they were not conducive to a settled way of life, which ruled out the very possibility of the development there of such forms of culture that we associate with civilization. That is why the paleolithic settlements discovered by archaeologists, dating to the same period, in no way contradict this hypothesis.)

The climate of the territory in question for a number of reasons must have been extremely favorable.

Firstly, the vast territory in close proximity of the ocean was only slightly elevated above the sea level.

Secondly, the plain was protected from northern winds and the cold influence of the ice sheet covering Scandinavia, exactly as in Plato's narrative, by the mountains, albeit not high, which encircled it.

Thirdly, during the last glaciation a warm current, now known as Gulf Stream - North Atlantic Drift and washing the shores of western and northern Europe, must have washed the shores of the territory in point.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:40:34 pm
Travelling to the Opposite Continent

For finding the answer to the question of where Atlantis was situated, the passage describing its whereabouts in relation to landmarks other than the Pillars of Hercules is of particular interest:

"...from it [Atlantis] travellers could in those days reach the other islands, and from them the whole opposite continent which surrounds what can truly be called the ocean." (Tim. 24e-25a)

In Thomas Taylor's translation it reads as follows:

"...and afforded an easy passage to other neighboring islands; as it was likewise easy to pass from those islands to all the continent which borders on this Atlantic sea. For the waters which are beheld within the mouth which we just now mentioned, have the form of a bay with a narrow entrance; but the mouth itself is a true sea. And lastly, the earth which surrounds it is in every respect truly denominated the continent."

The argument about whether America is implied in this passage or not, can be veritably endless. But such a vision of the ocean surrounded by land, is strange, to say the least, for Plato of Greece or even for his imagination. Indeed, Greeks themselves did not know of America. So, this is a serious argument in support of the idea that Plato really possessed some information which had been lost long before his time, and that thanks to him, we have received uniquely ancient recorded information.

The phased character of sailing to the "opposite continent" in itself suggests the idea of the not-too-high level of navigation skills. The manner of action described would be appropriate for the Vikings' voyage to the island of Newfoundland, rather than for Columbus's search of a westward route to India. It is conventionally believed that both ancient Egyptians and the ancient Greeks we know of, sailed the seas on their ships, keeping to the coast and never losing sight of it. The style of ancient geographical descriptions that have reached us, testifies to that - "if you sail along such-and-such a coast in such-and-such a direction for so many days, you'll get to such-and-such a place": so does the fact that no evidence has been found that either Greeks or Egyptians were familiar with the principles of navigation used in sailing the open seas. In my opinion, there are no serious grounds for believing that matters were different as regards Plato's Atlanteans and ancient Athenians.

Taking into account these considerations, we can see that in "Timaeus" a very accurate description is given of the route from the west of Europe to the above-mentioned island of Newfoundland via Iceland, Greenland and smaller islands, which, given a lower sea level, must have been more numerous on the way.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:40:54 pm
Catastrophe

Attempts to link the vanishing of Atlantis to the rise of the sea level during the end of the last glaciation have always met with serious objections. It is believed that the sea level had been rising fairly gradually and with different speed for several thousand years. Critics asserted that the flooding caused by this rising sea level could not correspond to the catastrophic character of what Plato described- the vanishing of Atlantis "in a single dreadful day and night".

1. The phrase "in a single dreadful day and night" can hardly be taken out of the context of the description of the catastrophe and interpreted as a precise description of the duration of the catastrophe. Generally, quoting it out of context as an argument in the debate on the nature of the catastrophe which brought about the vanishing of Atlantis is not quite legitimate, to say the least. What Plato says about the vanishing of Atlantis reads verbatim as follows:

"At a later time [after beginning of war between Atlanteans and Athenians] there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was similarly swallowed up by the sea and vanished... "(Tim. 25c-d)

We see that besides the already quoted phrase about one day and one night, there is the mention of the earthquakes and floods accompanying the catastrophe in the plural, which in itself suggests a longer duration of the catastrophe process than just one day and night. Besides, if we take into account the character and style of the narration as a whole, the phrase "in a single dreadful day and night" can be viewed simply as a figure of speech, a poetic hyperbole.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:41:13 pm
2. Now let us try to clarify where the idea of the gradual character of the change of the sea level originates from. Certainly, the curves on the graphs of the sea level changes are fairly quiet, but looking at them, we should not forget to what extent they generalize the existing point measurements and datings, of which there are, as a rule, not more than three per every thousand years, so that if in the past there had been rather dramatic changes of the sea level, they simply cannot be reflected in such data.

It is also necessary to take into account that for the period under consideration the error of the radiocarbon dating method, even according to the most optimistic estimates, can amount to 400-500 years, as a result of which the process which lasted half a thousand years can be depicted as a momentary event, and vice versa.

Besides, it takes some time for the relief features characteristic of the coastal line (coastal terraces etc.) to emerge. It means that for periods when the sea level changed relatively fast, there should not exist distinctive ancient coastal features, since there simply was not enough time for them to take shape. Thus, the absolutely natural lack of data is bound to lead to a distorted understanding of the dynamics of the process, due to the filling of the gaps by averaging the data available for the periods of more fair changes.

3. The next question to be answered after we considered how it was possible that dramatic rises of the sea level in the past could have remained unnoticed by modern science, is the question if such rises were possible in the first place, and whether they actually took place in the past.

In 1988 the paleoclimatologist Hartmut Heinrich published the data obtained as a result of studying sediments from the Dreizack sea mounts in the eastern North Atlantic, which evidences that there had been at least six massive iceberg discharges into the ocean from the Laurentian ice sheet during the last Ice Age (10). Given that these events known as "Heinrich events" involved great armadas of icebergs, amounting to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cubic kilometers, they could not but cause a substantial rise of the sea level.

Climatologist Wallace Broecker, speaking of the possibility of massive iceberg discharges into the ocean having triggered global climate changes, points to the correlation between the "Heinrich events" and cycles of abrupt jumps in temperature for several thousand years during the last Ice Age (the so-called Dansgaard-Oeschgercycles), discovered by Bond (3). This correlation consists in that during the most intense phase of a package of several progressing colder cycles the ice armadas were launched and that each Heinrich event was followed by a prominent warming which initiated a new package of cycles. The last of such cold events was the so-called Younger Dryas, and its abrupt end ushered in the Holocene, a period of stable warm climate which has now lasted for about 11,500 calendar years (10,000 14C-years).

At present there exist many hypotheses on the causes of the beginning and the end of Ice Ages and glaciations; various factors are suggested as possible causes, a survey of which is not seen as one of the tasks of this paper. There is no ultimate clarity on the issue so far, although in analyzing the graphs of the changes of temperatures for various regions it can be seen that the warming of the climate that marked the end of the last glaciation was more pronounced, abrupt and stable than all the previous ones.

In 1995 a group of researchers from University of Copenhagen published the interpretation of dated Central Greenland ice core isotope profile as a climatic temperature record spanning the last 113,000 years (11). It was noted that the latter temperature minimum (11,500 years ago) ended with an extremely abrupt 20 deg C warming within a century, while from 10,000 to 8,000 years BP, during the post-glacial climatic optimum, the temperatures were up to 3-4 deg C higher than now.

This dramatic rise in temperatures can be traced in most climate reconstructions on the basis of data obtained by using many various methods. It should be borne in mind that there is no linear correlation between the rise in global mean temperatures and the rise of the mean sea level: apparently, there must have been a certain time lag between the melting of the glaciers, the rise of the sea level and the rise of the mean temperatures. (Let us recall an experiment from the school course of physics, when a vessel with ice is being heated, but the temperature of the water into which ice turns at melting, only starts rising after all the ice has melted.), and as regards paleobotanic and paleozoological data about the climate, there must have been a certain time lag between the rise in the temperatures and the change in the areas where certain types of plants grow or certain types of animals live.

The discovery of "Heinrich events" is indicative of how little is known so far about the last Ice Age. It is difficult to imagine now that someone will be so bold as to assert with certainty that at the end of Pleistocene and the beginning of Holocene there could not have been events comparable in magnitude to or surpassing "Heinrich events", which could have caused a dramatic enough rising of the sea level.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:41:33 pm
4. Up to now we had been discussing the possibility of a fairly fast glacio-eustatic rise of the mean sea level. But in modelling the dynamics of the changes in the relative sea level for a specific region, besides the glacio-eustatic fluctuations of theme an sea level connected with the changing volume of the ice sheets, it is also necessary to take into consideration the changes in the absolute level of the earth surface, determined by the glacio-isostatic effects.

As we have already said in section "WHERE",at the time when the Scandinavian ice sheet existed, the earth crust beneath it was isostatically depressed under the weight of its mass, while at a distance from it, the crust was uplifted as a result of the isostatic balancing. If the area of the Celtic Shelf was situated in the zone of this uplift, so that the relative sea level there was lower than the mean sea level by the amount of this isostatic elevation, then, as the Scandinavian ice sheet receded and diminished, and the compensatory processes of the uplifting of the earth crust in the area of the ice sheet itself were taking place, and simultaneously its subsidence in the area which was uplifted, the speed of the rise in the relative sea level in the area of the Celtic Shelf constituted the sum of the speed of the glacio-eustatic rise in the mean sea level and the speed of the isostatic subsidence of the surface of the earth crust in this area.

The time scale of such isostatic processes is not quite clear. Their speed depends on a variety of factors, such as the toughness of the earth crust, the size of the blocks that are being balanced, the depth at which the isostatic balancing takes place, and the estimate of this speed depends to a great extent on the choice of this or that model of the structure of the Earth. Most researchers agree that in the wake of the disappearance of most of the ice sheets, the speed of the compensatory isostatic uplift and subsidence was substantially higher than can be observed now that the disappearance of the glacio-isostatic pressure of the ice sheets of the last glaciation has practically been compensated in full (23, 33).

If we assume that at the end of the last glaciation there had been a massive discharge of ice from the Scandinavian ice sheet similar to the "Heinrich events", then the decrease of the glacio-isostatic pressure could have been leap wise, and the compensatory isostatic processes could have developed with the maximum possible speed.

5. Another argument to back the thesis that none other than the rising of the sea level was the catastrophe that Plato described, is that the relief of the plain in point, in the west of Europe, was of such character, that the rising of the sea level by one meter could often have meant the retreat of the coastline by kilometers. I am sure that even if the full submerging of the territory lasted several years, the eye-witnesses (and victims), who were on a flat plain, must have perceived it as a very fast sinking of all the land they could see, from horizon to horizon (See again map of the Celtic Shelf).



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:42:15 pm
Little Sole Bank

To sum up briefly all the above-said, the hypothesis can be formulated as follows:

The narrative of Atlantis contained in the dialogues "Timaeus" and "Critias" is neither the fruit of Plato's imagination, nor a reminiscence of the history of one of the Mediterranean cultures of the third-second millennium B.C. In all probability, it contains fairly accurate information of the cultures which existed in the late Pleistocene, at least, during the last glaciation, in the coastal areas of the Atlantic coast of Europe and the Mediterranean, whose climate was fairly mild, as well as of the events that took place at the end of Pleistocene and the beginning of Holocene, which brought about the demise of these cultures.

Plato's geographical descriptions of Atlantis correlate with sufficient precision with the actual paleogeographic situation at the time he specified: in the Atlantic Ocean, outside the Mediterranean Sea, there must have really existed land, where there was a plain adjoining the coast of approximately the same size as described by Plato. Most of the geographical details mentioned by Plato can be correlated with this land, which existed in the west of Europe, virtually without a stretch; most importantly, it was at the time Plato specified that it was submerged as a result of the rise of the sea level, which could well be fairly fast.

The contradictions between the very possibility of the existence of relatively highly developed civilizations at the time specified by Plato, and the existing ideas on the history of mankind, seem to be exaggerated, given the fact that most of the coastal areas, whose climate was conducive to the development of such civilizations and where their artifacts could be found, was submerged, and the extent to which the sea floor at appropriate depths has been explored by underwater archaeology, is indescribably low.

The main paradox of Plato's Atlantis seems to be that now that the Earth sciences have at long last developed more or less reliable ideas of the processes that were taking place when Atlantis is supposed to have existed, and it has eventually become possible to examine and interpret in their context the information about Atlantis that has reached us, such an interpretation has become virtually impossible because of an unbelievable multitude of stereotypes, which owe their existence to the fact that people who read, translated and interpreted the narrative of Atlantis for over two and a half thousand years, did not have the modern knowledge of those processes.

The hypothesis we are putting forward, like any other hypothesis, is only a concept, and needs to be corroborated by facts. The verification of this hypothesis can be effected by organizing an expedition for underwater exploration on the Celtic Shelf, in particular, in the Little Sole Bank area. The research is to include: a detailed survey of the bottom, using a side-scan sonar or a multi-beam echo-sounder, a profile recorder, satellite and hydro-acoustic navigation systems with a view to building a high resolution solid digital model of the bottom, on which objects could be singled out that might be the remains of ancient buildings. In case such objects are identified, they can be explored directly, with a remote operated underwater vehicle. If they really prove to be the remains of man-made stone structures, then a line can be drawn at the more than two thousand-year-old debate on Atlantis, and new horizons will open for a overhaul of the existing ideas of the history of mankind.

 References

1. http://www.imh.ru/atlan4_e.htm

2. http://www.atlantisquest.com/Writings.html

http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0011.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 10:48:41 pm
Discovery of the Azores

There are accounts that Henry sent his able seaman and knight
Goncalo Velho Cabral, in 1431, with the orders "to sail towards the
setting sun until he came to an island."17 Others say the islands had
been found accidentally by Portuguese sailors returning from a
voyage along the African coast or the Madeiras,18 but this is not
possible because the prevailing winds and ocean currents would not
have allowed it.19 Henry and his school of navigators knew there
were islands located a few hundred miles off the Portuguese coast
because they were shown on a Catalan map. In 1431, Cabral found a
series of volcanic rocks protruding out from under the water which
he named "formigas" or ants. He was just 25 miles from the nearest
Azorean island at the time which apparently was not visable to his
crew or him. He returned to Henry and was sent out immediately
the next year to reexplore the area.20

On August 15, 1432, Cabral found Santa Maria, the easternmost
island of the Azorean archipelago. It was the feast day of the
Assumption of Our Blessed Mother, or Santa Maria, and consequently
named for her.21 The island was lush with forests, streams, and
birdlife.22 Apparently, there were many birds in flight, thought to be
goshawks, and hence, the islands got the Portuguese name "acor" or
hawk. However, there have never been goshawks there according to
ornithologists. Many believe the birds seen were the Azorean
buzzards.23

It is thought too that maybe the name for the islands came from this
statement written by Martin Behaim, the maker of the Nuremburg
globe of 1492: "All birds found in the islands by the first settlers
were so tame that they came to the hand like hawks."24 Another
theory is that the word "raca" or "raka," meaning bird of prey in
Arabic, was translated to the Portugese acor. Raca appeared in an
Arab manuscript designating an island, or islands, in the same
location as the Azores.25

A letter written by Alfonso V, King of Portugal, dated July 2, 1439 is
the first known document with a reference to the Azores. Its content
reveals that there were seven islands and that Henry was given the
right to settle them.26 The next known document is a Majorcan map
of the same year which had seven islands and the date of discovery
was recorded as 1432.27 There have been differing versions
concerning the year-date of the discovery. It appears, after some
analysis by scholars, that 1432 is the correct date.28 Unfortunately,
there were no written accounts of the voyage by the participants.29
In fact, there is little information on the discoveries of the other
eight islands because of the same reason.

Sao Miguel was sighted followed next by Terceira, which means the
"third." Then the central group of islands were found which were
Graciosa, Sao Jorge, Pico, and Faial. And finally the western two
islands of Corvo and Flores were sighted in 1452 which concluded
the discovery of the archipelago.30 There is no evidence that
humankind had ever been on the islands.31 But there are mysteries.
There is the mystery of an equestrian statue on Corvo, and also the
mystery of the Phoenician or Carthagenian coins said to have found
there as well.32

Corvo along with Flores are the two westernmost islands of the
archipelago, and hence, the last inch of European soil. It was here in
the early 1500's, that Damiao de Goes, under the employment of King
Dom Manoel of Portugal, wrote of a statue of a man on horseback
pointing to the west which was clinging to a rocky ledge. The king
asked for a drawing of it, and after seeing the drawing, he sent
someone to bring it back. As the story goes, it was shattered in a
storm en route, but the king received the parts. There too was an
inscription in the rock below the statue, and an impression was taken
of it. But neither the shattered parts of the statue, nor the impression
of the inscription were ever found.33
Was it a hoax? Scholars are still
unsure.

Some have speculated that the statue was really just one of many
rock formations seen on the island and nothing more.34 Others feel it
did exist and could have been evidence of the lost continent of
Atlantis, or of another settlement of ancient peoples.
Coins too were
found on Corvo, and their images were published in a journal of the
Society of Gothenberg. They were considered to be of Carthagenian or
Cyrenean origin by the society.35 A twentieth century Portuguese
scholar, made a serious effort to locate the coins. He went to the
convent to which they were first supposedly taken. He also visited
museums where he thought information could be found. But his
investigation turned up nothing.36


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://wwwlibrary.csustan.edu/bsantos/azores.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:03:50 pm
Azores Islands


by Robert L. Santos
California State University, Stanislaus
Librarian/Archivist


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Early Accounts of Land Beyond


With the sea at his toes and an inquisitive and adventuring mind, the
Portuguese natural orientation is towards the west. The 17th century
Portuguese writer, Antonio Vieira wrote, "God gave the Portuguese a
small country as a cradle but all the world as their grave."1

There were mythical lands across sea as suggested by ancient
writing. Theopompue in 4th century B.C. wrote of a large western
land in the Atlantic. Pliny and Diodorus wrote of a large continent
beyond to the west. Solon of Greece in 600 B.C. visited Egypt and was
told of an island named Atlantis which Plato wrote about in his
Dialogues of 400 BC. His account tells of a powerful land outside the
columns of Hercules which was larger than Libya and Asia combined.
It was a land that was the way to other lands, but it sank during a
time of earthquakes and floods. The water was so muddy from its
sinking that it was impassable.2

But there were islands located in the Atlantic that were steeped in
myth and seen on early maps. They had names like the Fortunate
Isles, Antillia, Brazil, and California.3 There were stories, such as Irish
St. Brendan of Clonfert in 545 sailing from Kerry and finding islands
which may have been the Madeiras.4 On a Catalan chart these
mysterious Atlantic islands were identified as the Isles of St.
Brendan and lie only a few hundred miles off the Strait of Gilbraltar.5
Mohammad al Edrisi was credited at one time of having located a
series of islands which might have been the Cape Verdes, the
Maderias, the Canaries, or possibly the Azores. This was in the 12th
century.6 

A Medici map of 1351 contained seven islands off the Portuguese
coast which were arranged in groups of three. There was the
southern group or the Goat Islands (Cabreras); there was the middle
group or the Wind or Dove Islands (De Ventura Sive de Columbis);
and there was the western island or the Brazil Island (De Brazil). On a
Catalan map of 1375, there were three Islands with the names of
Corvo, Flores, and Sao Jorge. It was thought that maybe the Genoese
may have discovered the Azores at that time and gave those names.7
These speculative sightings indicate that there was some ocean
exploration occurring, or at least, there was interest in what lay
beyond confines of continental Europe.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:04:13 pm
Prince Henry the Navigator and the Age of Exploration

Portuguese Prince Infante Dom Henrique (1394-1460), or Henry the
Navigator, was exactly what the literature proclaimed him to be, the
founder of modern navigation.  He was singularly instrumental in
opening up the rest of the world to the Europeans. For the Azoreans,
he was their founding father as we shall see. Henry studied the sea,
weather, ships, geography and trade routes. He talked to navigators,
and sea captains. He brought to his navigation school, which he
founded at Sagres in 1416, cosmographers, mathematicians,
cartographers, and learned men of all kinds. He collected maps,
charts, books, and ephemera that would educate him and his circle of
adventurers.8

The motive for this industry was to find a sea route to link up with
the mythological Prester John, thereby encircling the Moslem world
and with armies driving them from northern Africa and the Holy
Land. To do this Henry needed money which he could garner through
trade once he found a sea route to India. He was the leader of the
religious-military organization, the Holy Order of Christ. Its program
of exploration, discovery, and settlement was for the purpose of
conquering the Muslims.9 

Henry's first move was to defeat the Muslims at Ceuta (Morocco) in
order to free the African coast for exploration. He, his brothers,
and his father, King John I of Portugal, did this in 1415.10 Henry 
experimented with ships and navigation during this venture, which
led to designing of the caravel, a long and slender ship (by
comparison) with lateen sails, that would be used by his Portuguese
explorers on their long voyages.11 Also the navigational instruments,
such as the astrolabe, quadrant, and cross-staff, were developed to
fix a ship's position. His captains kept logbooks of their voyages to
document their experience for the knowledge of others. They also
used flat maps to record longitude and latitude thereby simplifying
cartography methods.12

It took great courage to navigate the unexplored seas. Positions had
to be known to find one's way back. There were winds, weather
changes, and sea currents to master. A small wooden ship could be
broken at sea. Supplies of food and water could run out during a
voyage. Disease could strike. Superstition and fear would attack. It
took only the stout-hearted to head out onto the unknown waters on
a voyage of exploration.13


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:04:36 pm
Next, Henry colonized the Madeira Islands which were accidentally
found by Joao Goncalves Zarco in 1419.14 They were uninhabited and
were to be used as a point of departure for further exploration and
in particular, for this study, the discovery and settlement of the
Azores.15 Camoes wrote in The Lusiads, "Thus far, O Portuguese, it is
granted to you to glimpse into the future and to know the exploits
that await your stout-hearted compatriots on the ocean that, thanks
to you is now no longer unknown."16 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:05:02 pm
Discovery of the Azores

There are accounts that Henry sent his able seaman and knight
Goncalo Velho Cabral, in 1431, with the orders "to sail towards the
setting sun until he came to an island."17 Others say the islands had
been found accidentally by Portuguese sailors returning from a
voyage along the African coast or the Madeiras,18 but this is not
possible because the prevailing winds and ocean currents would not
have allowed it.19 Henry and his school of navigators knew there
were islands located a few hundred miles off the Portuguese coast
because they were shown on a Catalan map. In 1431, Cabral found a
series of volcanic rocks protruding out from under the water which
he named "formigas" or ants. He was just 25 miles from the nearest
Azorean island at the time which apparently was not visable to his
crew or him.  He returned to Henry and was sent out immediately
the next year to reexplore the area.20

On August 15, 1432, Cabral found Santa Maria, the easternmost
island of the Azorean archipelago. It was the feast day of the
Assumption of Our Blessed Mother, or Santa Maria, and consequently
named for her.21 The island was lush with forests, streams, and
birdlife.22 Apparently, there were many birds in flight, thought to be
goshawks, and hence, the islands got the Portuguese name "acor" or
hawk. However, there have never been goshawks there according to
ornithologists. Many believe the birds seen were the Azorean
buzzards.23

It is thought too that maybe the name for the islands came from this
statement written by Martin Behaim, the maker of the  Nuremburg
globe of 1492: "All birds found in the islands by the first settlers
were so tame that they came to the hand like hawks."24 Another
theory is that the word "raca" or "raka," meaning bird of prey in
Arabic, was translated to the Portugese acor. Raca appeared in an
Arab manuscript designating an island, or islands, in the same
location as the Azores.25 

A letter written by Alfonso V, King of Portugal, dated July 2, 1439 is
the first known document with a reference to the Azores. Its content
reveals that there were seven islands and that Henry was given the
right to settle them.26 The next known document is a Majorcan map
of the same year which had seven islands and the date of discovery
was recorded as 1432.27 There have been differing versions
concerning the year-date of the discovery. It appears, after some
analysis by scholars, that 1432 is the correct date.28  Unfortunately,
there were no written accounts of the voyage by the participants.29
In fact, there is little information on the discoveries of the other
eight islands because of the same reason.

Sao Miguel was sighted followed next by Terceira, which means the
"third." Then the central group of islands were found which were
Graciosa, Sao Jorge, Pico, and Faial. And finally the western two
islands of Corvo and Flores were sighted in 1452 which concluded
the discovery of the archipelago.30 There is no evidence that
humankind had ever been on the islands.31 But there are mysteries.
There is the mystery of an equestrian statue on Corvo, and also the
mystery of the Phoenician or Carthagenian coins said to have found
there as well.32


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:05:18 pm
Corvo along with Flores are the two westernmost islands of the
archipelago, and hence, the last inch of European soil. It was here in
the early 1500's, that Damiao de Goes, under the employment of King
Dom Manoel of Portugal, wrote of a statue of a man on horseback
pointing to the west which was clinging to a rocky ledge. The king
asked for a drawing of it, and after seeing the drawing, he sent
someone to bring it back. As the story goes, it was shattered in a
storm en route, but the king received the parts. There too was an
inscription in the rock below the statue, and an impression was taken
of it. But neither the shattered parts of the statue, nor the impression
of the inscription were ever found.33 Was it a hoax? Scholars are still
unsure.

Some have speculated that the statue was really just one of many
rock formations seen on the island and nothing more.34 Others feel it
did exist and could have been evidence of the lost continent of
Atlantis, or of another settlement of ancient peoples. Coins too were
found on Corvo, and their images were published in a journal of the
Society of Gothenberg. They were considered to be of Carthagenian or
Cyrenean origin by the society.35 A twentieth century Portuguese
scholar, made a serious effort to locate the coins. He went to the
convent to which they were first supposedly taken. He also visited
museums where he thought information could be found. But his
investigation turned up nothing.36 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:05:39 pm
Settlers and Settlement

At some point, following the discovery of Santa Maria, sheep were let
loose on the island before settlement actually took place.37 This was
done to supply the future settlers with food because there were no
animals on the island. Settlement didn't take place right away,
however. There was not much interest among the Portuguese people
in an isolated island world hundreds of miles from civilization.38 But
patiently Cabral gathered resources and settlers for the next three
years (1433-1436) and sailed to establish colonies on Santa Maria
first and then later on Sao Miguel.39 

Brush had to be cleared and rocks removed for the planting of
crops.40 Grain, grape vines, sugar cane, and other plants suitable for
settler use and of commercial value, were planted. Domesticated
animals were brought, such as, cattle, sheep, goats, and hogs. Houses
were built and villages established.41 

The first settlers were a mixed group of people from the Portuguese
provinces of Algarve and Minho.42 Also, Madeirans, Moorish
prisoners, black slaves,43 French, Italians, Scots, English, and
Flemings were among the early settlers.44 There were petty
criminals, Spanish clergy, Jews, soldiers, government officials,
European merchants and sugar cane growers.45 

The purpose of the Azorean colony was to service the mother
country with commodities and tribute. It was to be a station for
Portuguese ships to be  resupplied and repaired. The islands too
were to produce crops for trade. In its peak trade years, there would
be more than one hundred ships anchored at the Bay of Angra.46
Slaves had to be removed from the islands and sent to Brazil and the
Caribbean because there was concern about a slave insurrection.47

The islands were colonized under the Holy Order of Christ,48
and the settlers were to be Christians. There were many languages,
but after awhile Portuguese became the standard language
of communication.49 Because of the isolated nature of the islands, and
the harshness of the land, and at times, climate, all settlers,
regardless of their background, had to work together to survive. This
gave the people a sense of equality and togetherness. As a
consequence, more settlers were given the right to purchase land.50
There were some slaves on the islands, and there were lingering
concerns about a slave revolt which no settler wanted. Soon the
slaves were sent to Brazil and to the Caribbean.51 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:06:01 pm
The Flemings

People from Flanders settled in the Azores beginning in 1450. These
Flemish settlers played an important role in the creation of the
Azorean culture. By 1490, there were 2,000 Flemings living in the
islands of Terceira, Pico, Faial, Sao Jorge, and Flores.52 Because there
was such a large Flemish settlement, the Azores became known as
the Flemish Islands or the Isles of Flanders.53   

Henry was responsible for this settlement. His sister, Isabel, was
married to Duke Philip of Burgundy of which Flanders was a part.
There was a revolt against Philip's rule and disease and hunger
became rampant. Isabel appealed to Henry to allow some of the
unruly Flemings to settle in the Azores. He granted this and supplied
them with the necessary transportation and goods.54

First group of Flemings was led by Willem van de Hagen, later known
by his Portuguese name of Guilherme da Silveira. They settled in
Terceira, and the Flemish nobleman, Jacome de Bruges, was placed in
charge. The next contingents went to the islands of Faial, Flores, Sao
Jorge,55 and Pico.56 Joos van Huerter founded the city of Horta on
Faial57 where evidence of the Flemish people and culture still exists
today. Faial was in fact called the Flemish Island and the valley
behind the city still has the name, the Valley of the Flemings or O
Valle dos Flamengo.58   

But the Flemish language disappeared before long, and the Flemish
settlers changed their names to Portuguese forms. For example, van
der Hagen became Silveira, and Huerter became Dutra or Utra.59
Flemish physical traits of light hair, light complexion, and blue eyes
can still be seen in the features of many Azoreans. Flemish oxcarts
and windmills are still seen on the islands.60 The Flemish beghards
and beguines (lay-religious group) brought the Festival of the Holy
Spirit and their distinctive cloaks and hoods to the islands.61 There
are many religious statuary, paintings, and furniture found in
Azorean churches and museums which show the Flemish influence.62

An interesting sidelight is the speculation that some Flemish people
may have reached the North Carolina coast inadvertently during this
migratory activity. In North Carolina, there was a group of people,
calling themselves the Melungeons, who had light colored skin and
identified themselves as Portuguese. These were not Native
Americans. It is thought, that maybe one of the ships bound for the
Azores, coming from Flanders, may have overshot the islands and
found its way to the Carolina coast, but evidence is lacking.63


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:06:18 pm
Captain-Donatary System

The captain-donatary system of government was a conception of
Prince Henry. He tried it first at Madeira and then next in the Azores.
The system was duplicated throughout the Portuguese colonies and
also used by the Spanish in their empire. It simply was a system by
which absentee landowners could control their property and also
receive payments from the peasant tenants on crop production.64
Alfonso V, King of Portugal gave Henry the privilege of settling seven
of the Azores Islands. Alfonso awarded the same privilege to his
uncle, Alfonso Duke of Braganca, to settle Corvo, and to Dona Maria
de Vilhena to settle the island of Flores.65

Henry made Cabral "captain" (governor) of Santa Maria and Sao
Miguel. Van der Hagen became captain of Flores and Corvo, and
Graciosa was given to Pedro de Correia, who was Christopher
Columbus' brother-in-law. Van Huerta was designated captain-
donatary of Faial, Pico, and Sao Jorge, while de Bruges was given the
same title for Terceira.66 The difference between a "captain-
donatary" and a "captain" was the former was able to pass along his
title as inheritance while the latter could not.67 

The captains and captains-donatary were like governors who had full
control over their domain. They held the office of judge. They could
make land grants. They monopolized the gristmills, public baking
ovens, and salt sales. Henry and his successors got a 10% tax from
these monopolies, and his captains got 10% of his 10%.68 The land
they granted was subdivided for tenant farming. This way the lands
were farmed by peasants who had no ownership and had to pay high
rent and tax. This system lasted for centuries and was one key
reason for the high Azorean emigration. There simply was no way
the peasants could advance up the socio-economic ladder.69

Through this system the King of Portugal had control over his lands
and had administrators in place to manage and to collect royal
tribute. Shortly, the land grant owners became wealthy and wanted
more control over government. As a result, municipal districts were
established with town councils where appropriate. This was a
pseudo-democratic system which allowed input into local
governmental policy. But in reality, the wealthy and the absentee
landowners still controlled the islands.70 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:06:45 pm
In the Middle of the Atlantic

The Azores Islands lie about 700 miles off the Portuguese coast; 750
miles from Africa;71 1,100 miles from Newfoundland; and 2,200
miles from the east coast of the United States. It is nearly midway
between Europe and the North America.72 The archipelago stretches
about 375 miles from end to end and are found in three separate
groups. They are volcanic in composition.73   

There are three theories on the genesis of the islands: (1) they could
be the last vestages of a large continent such as Atlantis; (2) they
could be the ragged edges of two continental plates pulling apart; or,
(3) they could be molten lava seeping from a large crack in the ocean
floor, cooled by ocean water, and rising to the ocean surface.74 The
latter seems to be the most probable as determined by the experts.
The islands are essentially the tips of a large undersea mountain
range, referred to as the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which stretches the
entire length of the Atlantic Ocean, from north to south. It is made up
of nearly100 volcanoes, some active and some dormant, with 19
hovering over 3,280 feet above sea level. Pico Alto, on the island of
Pico, is the  highest volcano at 7,711 feet.75 Because of these
volcanoes, there is virtually no flatland on the islands.76

Table 1 below shows the varying sizes and heights of the islands. Sao
Miguel is the largest in size with Corvo being the smallest having
only 4 square miles of surface. Sao Miguel, Sao Jorge, and Pico are the
longest islands with an average length of about 35 miles. Most of the
islands are generally from 7 to 10 miles wide and have mountainous
topography. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:07:01 pm
               Table 1
      Size and Elevation of the Azores Islands

Island         Area      Length        Width      % Below        % Above
      (sq mi)             (mi)       (mi)      1,000 Feet  1,000 Feet
_____________________________________________________________
Santa Maria   37.5      10.4      6.2      86.4      13.6
Sao Miguel   288.0      39.9      9.9      52.7      47.3
Terceira   162.9      18.0           11.2      55.6      44.4
Graciosa    23.9      7.8      4.7      94.5          5.7
Sao Jorge    95.0      34.1      4.2      30.1      69.9
Faial       66.8      13.1      8.7      53.5      46.5
Pico      172.2      33.2      9.2      41.2      58.8
Flores       52.2      10.5      7.7      32.5      67.5
Corvo        4.0      4.0      2.5      45.1      54.9
Total           808.1                        
_____________________________________________________
Source: James H. Guill, A History of the Azores Islands
 & Jerry R. Williams, And Yet They Come.77


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:08:02 pm
The islands are irregular in shape with most of the land sloping
upward towards the volcanic peaks. The sea coast has cliffs that are 
several hundred feet high. The lower shorelines have coves that
serve as harbors. Horta on the island of Faial has the best natural
harbor in the islands. There are fine harbors at Ponta Delgada on Sao
Miguel and Angra on Terceira.78 The water is deep offshore, from 1-
2 miles in most cases, reminding one that these islands are the tops
of a mountain range having great vertical relief.79 The water
between Pico and Faial is 300 feet deep which indicates that these
two islands were undoubtedly one island at one point.80

In the 1880's, American Lyman Weeks visited the islands and
describes vividly what he saw:

   The shore is high and precipitous, and dangerous headlands
   project outward  in all directions; while reefs of hoary rocks,
   spume-covered and washed by  angry waves, form a protecting
   cordon about the land. Over the edges of dark  sea-cliffs, little
   rivulets, like silver threads upon cloth of a frieze, trickle  down
   into the ocean. The fields are crossed and recrossed with
   hedges of bamboo,  which divide the land into a regular
   checker-work of cultivation and pasturage.  Groups of white
   buildings, with a steepled church always in the midst, occupy
   the most conspicuos locations.81 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:08:52 pm
Climate

Azorean climate is temperate having temperatures usually between
75 to 50 degrees F.82 There is a band of high pressure, called the
"Azores High," which keeps storms away from the islands.83 The
ocean currents run clockwise around the northern Atlantic with the
warm Gulf Stream helping to keep the Azorean climate mild.84

Average rainfall varies with each island. For example, Flores receives
54.8 inches of rain a year while Sao Miguel gets 28.7. Humidity
averages about 75% throughout the islands with a normal range from
59% to 99%.85 Snow covers Alto Pico during the colder winter
months, a time for storms and heavy winds. Corvo and Flores in the
western part of the island chain get polar fronts that swing through
leaving heavy rain.86 Tropical cyclones and hurricanes have
pummeled the islands during September and October when low
pressure allows them through.87 One such hurricane struck the
islands on August 30, 1857. At the American consulate in Horta, J.P.
Dabney describes what he witnessed:

   About nine o'clock the wind shifted suddenly from W. to N.N.W.
   and in a short   time the hurricane was upon us. For about two
   and a half hours it blew as I   never saw it blow before. The
   Bay with the wind off shore was one white mass   of foam, and
   at times the vessels were almost swallowed up in spray . . . The   
   growth and labor of years destroyed in one moment! I never
   saw such a wreck!   Some paths were impassable from the
   trees that had fallen across them and   over one hundred pine
   trees were broken short off . . . the corn laid flat on   the
   ground, in every direction . . . the poor farmers seem in despair
   and yet    they never murmur.88   



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:09:15 pm
The Shaking, Spewing Earth

The Azores is a lively place to be. There is a continuous chain of
earthquakes and volcanic activity that has had a great effect on its
inhabitants. Many of them have left the islands in horror after
witnessing one of these catacylysmic events. But disasters are bound
to happen when a volcanic environment is home for thousands of
human beings.89

A warning of such calamity was signaled early in man's history on
the islands. When Cabral discovered Sao Miguel in 1444, he saw two
volcanic mountains, one at each end of the island. The next year
when he returned with supplies and additional settlers, he noticed
something was wrong. The western mountain was completely gone!
When he landed, he questioned the men he left behind from the
previous voyage, and found that during his absence, earthquakes
followed by volcanic explosions, collasped the crater. The years that
followed were labeled "the years of the ashes" because ash could be
found several feet deep on parts of the islands, and ash impeded
ocean traffic hundreds of miles at sea. The collasped crater at Sao
Miguel over the centuries has filled with rainwater forming two
lakes, and next to the lakes, a village can be found which was given
the mythological name, Sete Ciadades, or Seven Cities.90

There have been 21 major volcanic eruptions in the past 550 years
collectively occurring on the islands of Sao Miguel, Terceira, Pico, Sao
Jorge, and Faial.91 In 1562, there was an eruption on Pico causing the
residents to flee in horror to the other islands. In 1580, on Sao Jorge,
12 people and 4,000 head of cattle were killed.92 In 1630, on Sao
Miguel, 200 people were killed and numerous cattle during an
eruption. In 1811 an volcanic islet, one mile in length, formed off the
coast of Sao Miguel. A British Union Jack was planted on it claiming it
for Great Britain. But the protruding islet sank back into the sea
taking the British flag with it.93 As late as 1957, another volcanic
islet arose off the coast of Faial, but this one connected to the island
destroying a lighthouse in the process.94 As one can see, the Azores is
a living volcanic nightmare that has violently made itself known
often through the island chain's history much to the detriment of its
residents.

This was reported in 1862 during a period of earthquakes and volcanic explosions:

   One hundred and twenty shocks occurred within ten days. They were not
   violent, but distressing to the inhabitants, most of whom left their houses,
   and betook themselves to tents. They lived in momentary expectation of an
   eruption, not knowing where or when it might burst forth . . . the people on
   the western slopes of the island, believing the sea to be on fire, and the end of
   the world at hand, got out their images of the saints, and chanted and
   prayed, night and day on the cliffs.95 

They placed crowns, used in the Holy Ghost festival, on altars, hoping
to soothe the anger of the belching earth and anxiously recited
verses like this one found in the annals Azorean folklore:

   The earth on fire shook
   Oh what distress and fear!
   To placate the volcano
   The blessed Crown brought near.96   


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:09:37 pm
Thomas Hickling, on the island of Sao Miguel, wrote this on February
28, 1811:

   We were much alarmed by frequent shocks of earthquakes, perhaps upwards of
   twenty . . . a volcano had broken out in the sea. I repaired immediately to that
   part of the Island and to my utter astonishment saw a vast column of black
   smoke issuing out of the ocean. The wind was a gale from the southward and
   blew smoke over the land . . . at various times times through the night, fire
   issue forth like a number of rockets discharged together. Large masses of
   stone and lava were continually thrown above the surface of the sea . . . In
   eight days it entirely subsided leaving a shoal on which the sea breaks.97

Mr. John P. Dabney, American Consul, recorded this about an eruption
on the island of Pico in 1808:

   The large Crater . . .  burst forth like a roaring Lion with horrible bellowings
   distinctly heard twelve leagues distant, throwing up prodigious large stones
   and lava and illuminating at night the whole Island . . . The lava inundated and
   swept away the Town of Ursulina and the country houses and cottages adjacent
   as well as the farm houses throughout its course. It as usual gave timely notice
   of its approach and most of the inhabitants fled. Some of them however remained
   in the vicinity too long, endeavouring to save their effects and were scalded by
   the flashes from its stream, which without injuring their clothes took not only
   their skin but their flesh; about sixty people were thus miserbly scalded, some
   of whom died on the spot, others soon after, and some recovered . . . In short,
   this Island heretofore rich in Corn, Cattle and vineyards for exportation, is
   nearly ruined and a scene of greater desolation and distress has seldom been
   witnessed.98 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:09:49 pm
The earthquakes have been just as destructive. There have been 18
major temblors on the islands in recorded history.99 One such quake
took place in 1522 when the entire village of Villa Franca, on Sao
Miguel island, having 5,000 residents, and being the center of
government, was engulfed within sixty seconds by land mass thrown
from a hill behind the village. It caused a tidal wave and other
destruction in the adjascent islands. It took a year to dig the village
out and to give Christian burials to its 5,000 victims.100

As recently as 1980, a massive earthquake underneath the ocean
near the islands of Sao Jorge, Terceira, and Graciosa took 60 lives;
destroyed 5,278 homes, 32 churches, 6,000 other structures; and
made 21,296 people homeless.101 

This litany of volcanic and earthquake disaster, has indelibly burned
itself into the psyche of the Azorean people. Some remain on the
islands with courage and determination, depending upon their
religious faith to see them through, while others emigrate and with
good reason.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:10:11 pm
But They are Beautiful!

The Azores islands are like the mythical sirens sailors believe in,
always dangerously beautiful. Most immigrants leave the Azores
with the idea of returning to their verdant isles with their majestic
cliffs, charming villages, and whitewashed homes glistening in the
sun. Many do return, but usually just to visit. However, a few do
make the islands their retirement home after working in the United
States for decades. They have their well-earned social security
checks sent to them.

There is a longing in the Azorean emigrant's heart for the home
islands. It is called "saudades," a Portuguese word which has no
English equivalent. It can be defined best as "nostagia," a yearning
deep within one's soul for the past. One of the highest compliments
one can pay is to say "muitas saudades" to someone.102 

Each of the nine islands has its own particular charm. Santa
Maria has 20,000 acres of fertile volcanic soil and three mountains
that rise to 1,900, 1720, and 780 feet.103 Sao Miguel is the largest
island and is called the "Green Island" because of the lushness of its
vegetation. It has a large crater named the Grand Cauldron which is
10 miles in circumference. Also, there is the Valley of Furnas with its
hot springs and therapeutic baths.104 

Terceira is the largest of the central group of five islands and is oval
in shape, undoubtedly a volcanic crater. It has mostly level terrain. It
has beaches and has a fine harbor at Angra.105 Another island is
Graciosa which means "gracious." It is not as mountainous and
wooded as the other islands, but it does have fine fertile soil. The
island of Pico is dominated by the large volanic peak of Pico Alto at
one end. It is rich in vegetation but lacks fresh water because it is
porous. Rainwater seeps quickly into its many cracks caused by
volcanic activity.106

Sao Jorge is a long slender island having 3,000 foot walls along its
northern sea coast. These headlands create dramatic waterfalls
during heavy rainfall. There are lush forests and pastures, and also
fine bays on the south coast.107 The island of Faial is dominated by a
large volcanic cone a few miles from its very picturesque city of
Horta.108 The island is profusely covered with clusters of white and
purple flowers of the  hydrangea. It has the majestic view from its
natural harbor of the 7,700 foot volcanic mountain Pico Alto which is
only 4 miles across the channel on the island of Pico. Faial gets its
name from the faya trees, that are like beech, which dominate the
island.109 

The westernmost island is Flores which is mountainous, wooded, and
covered with flowers. It has eight lakes and six volcanic craters. It
has no good harbors because of its treacherous shores.110 Lastly is
Corvo, the smallest of the islands. Its name comes from the birds
found there. It is largely an extinct volcanic cone with few forests or
woods.111 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:10:30 pm
Plants and Animals

What plants and animals found on this isolated archipelago were
brought by the wind, ocean currents, and bird migrations.112 At the
time of discovery, the islands had only sealife, birds, and plantlife.
Squalls brought insects and birds, such as, blackbirds, woodpigeons,
canaries, starlings, and buzzards.113 Sixty-three plants are unique to
the Azores and about 700 were introduced,114 such as, the magnolia,
eucalyptus, bamboo, palm, oak, tea, tobacco, banana, citrus, and
pine.115 Forests were depleted by the settlers for a variety of
purposes, and the brush burned off for pastureland. About 8.4% of
the islands or 69,025 remain wooded today.116 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:10:57 pm
Agriculture

There are numerous varieties of agricultural crops on the
islands. Much of it is for subsistence, but major cash crops have been
tried, and just as many have failed because of disease or problems in
the world market. Sugar cane, citrus, grapes, and pastels have been
tried, and for one reason or another, lost their worth.

Pastels, or woad, was grown to produce blue and purple dyes, but
was replaced with indigo and brazilwood that were grown
elsewhere.117 Sugar cane caused a serious debacle between the
farmers and the government because of the revenue the government
and the rich took from the farmers.118 Tobacco was tried, but it
seriously depleted the soil. Tea couldn't compete with the growers in
the orient. Oranges were shipped in larged amounts, 500,000
annually, to England in the 1800's,119 but blight struck them, and the
industry never fully recovered. The same happened to grapes,
especially on Pico, where the quality wine of its wine was well-
known outside the Azores.120

The islands also produce grains, beans, flax, corn, sweet potatoes,
dairy products, and a variety of fruits, such as, figs, pears, apples,
peaches, and quinces.121 Domesticated animals, such as sheep, cattle,
hogs, and chickens have been raised for local useage.122 The islands
have rich volcanic soil, but there are no large tracts of unobstructed
land available. Lava and other volcanic deposits pose great obstacles.
Rocks are removed and used for fences since wood is scarce. In
reality they are  4 to 5 feet high walls which act as windbreaks,
sheltering vines and other fruits from the wind. They are stacked to
form rectangular fields of about 100 square feet. It is not unusual to
see corn or grape vines planted in the cracks between rocks because
very vestige of soil must be used in this volcanic littered land.123


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:11:18 pm
This was written in 1880's by an American visitor:
   
   Between the villages, sloping to the sea, lay broad and fertile fields; yams
   and sweet-potatoes, besides Indian corn, wheat, and other grains, beans,
   melons, squashes, and potatoes, as luxuriant as on the meadow-lands of the
   Connecticut.124 

The island of Sao Jorge has extensive pastureland for dairy cattle and
produces milk and cheese for the islands and some cheese for
exportation.125 Another island with daries is Terceira. It is common
for most Azorean families to have a family cow or two to provide the
household with milk, butter, and cheese.126 The Azores have mostly
holstein and shorthorn breeds.127 

There have been two ways to survive on the islands: one must fish,
or one must farm. Some combine the two out of necessity. Because of
the lack of good harbors, high coastal walls,  and the deep rolling seas
surrounding the islands, fishing has never been a major activity.
Consequently, agriculture has been practiced by nearly all of the
islanders for a livelihood.128   

Because of the lack of available land, farming has had to be
intensive.129 The land tenure system puts the farmer in
"perpetual leasehold," that is, he is virtually landless and must
lease land to farm. The rent is fixed, but unlike tenant farming where
the owner and the farmer share in profits and losses, the renter
takes the full impact of good and bad agricultural years. Leases are
hereditary, being passed along to subsequent generations, and the
leased lands can only be subdivided by permission of the owner.
Thus, as the population grows the opportunities dwindle for the
younger generation. In 1840, only 3% of the land was controlled by
the population.130 In 1965, 81.8% of the Azorean farms were 3 acres
or less, and 3.2% larger than 10 acres.131 

The peasant farming his small acreage for sustenance has no interest
or means to progress technologically. In the 1880's the status of
farming equipment found on the Azores was as this visitor saw it:
   
   Flax is extensively cultivated and used, yet a loom or spinning-wheel is a thing
   almost unknown . . . wheat is trodden out by oxen on a large circular threshing-
   floor, as in patriarchial times . . . In churning . . . still adhere to the traditional
   method of shaking the milk in an earthen vessel or burying it in a leathern bag
   in the ground until the butter comes. A large broad hoe with a short handle is
   universally employed in agricultural labors. Spades, shovels, and forks are
   tabooed as inventions of the foul fiend . . . The plough is the old Latin plough
   reproduced. It is of wood, the share alone being shod with iron. The ploughman
   rides to the field on his donkey, and then has a pair of oxen to do the work,
   while the donkey is turned loose into the hedge to wait. So it was in the days
   of Job, who tells us that "the oxen were ploughing and the asses feeding besides
   them."132   


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:11:37 pm
Resilient People

Hardship builds character. This is seen time and again throughout
history, and this aptly applies to the Azoreans. They have had
to survive earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, fierce storms, crop
disease, European wars, and pirate raids to name their greatest
challenges.133 Because of their isolation in the middle of the Atlantic,
they have had to be self-reliant, independent, and harmonious to
survive.134

There are many descriptions of the Azorean's character and lifestyle
in the literature. Most of it is complimentary. Some of it is derogatory
and scathing which quite often comes from upper class travelers who
have little interest in the welfare of the peasant class. The following
are some of the opinions that represents both viewpoints.   

An American, Alice Baker, traveled to the Azores during the summer
in the early 1880's. She wrote this:
   
   The Portuguese peasant class is poor and often poverty-stricken though
   living under fairly favorable climate conditions; that they have a very low
   standard of living, dwelling in humble cottages which are sometimes
   uncleanly and usually devoid of the barest necessities, and eating the plainest
   of food; that they lack knowledge of hygiene and sanitation; that they are
   devout though somewhat less in parts of the mainland than on the islands;
   that their religious ideas are somewhat vague and associated with many
   superstitions; that their recreation is limited and semi-religious in some
   of its aspects; and that they are grossly ignorant, illiterate, often lacking
   in a desire for education, though not unintelligent . . . Quick intelligence,
   the dreamy melancholy, the slyness and love of intrigue, the wit and
   imagination are here and the power of expression in words . . . They are
   devoted to music, flowers, dance, and song.135



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:11:55 pm
Lawrence Oliver, himself an Azorean immigrant, describes his
people as they appeared to him:
   
   The Portuguese have always been liberty-loving race . . . They are adven-
   turous, courageous, natural pioneers. They are home lovers and home
   builders. Of a deeply religious nature, they support their and its needs.
   Although thrifty, they recognize the good things of life and when acquired,
   use them with moderation and good judgment. Seldom will their names
   be found on relief rolls and even less often on the records of our criminal
   courts.136

Mark Twain visited the Azores and wrote about the islands and its
people in his work Innocents Abroad. It must be remembered that
Twain's style is witty and satirical, and he uses forced humor at
times to entertain the reader. But still his comments are worth
hearing, if only because he is a giant in the observation of people. His
preoccupation with the donkey in the below passage comes a day
after his rigorous travel on the beast of burden:

   The community is eminently Portuguese -- that is to say, it is slow, poor,
   shiftless, sleepy, and  lazy . . . The people lie, and cheat the stranger,
   and are desperately ignorant, and have hardly any reverence for their dead.
   The latter trait shows how little better they are than the donkeys they eat
   and sleep with . . . The donkeys and the men, women, and children of a family,
   all eat and sleep in the same room, and are unclean, are ravaged by vermin,
   and are truly happy.137 
   


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:12:33 pm
Mostly Humble Abodes

Houses in the Azores are usually one-story made of black lava rock
cemented by limestone, a mineral found only on the island of Santa
Maria. The black rock is plastered over and then whitewashed. The
exterior of the house has tiles of white porcelain with designs in blue,
brown, green, or yellow for decoration. The tiles are from an
inherited handicraft coming from both the Moors and the Flemings.
The roofs are tiled in red, or thatched, and have no chimneys. The
islands' architecture shows strong Moorish decorative influence.138

The Azorean dwellings are usually one room, some have a loft, some
have a separate cooking area, and most have earth floors. There are
no windows, and those with them, have no glass. Their beds are
matresses of corn husks or silky fibre put in homespun linen ticks.
Most homes don't have a stove but will have a fireplace with a broad
stone shelf. Some do have stone ovens though. There is very little
furniture in the house, and the lighting is poor. Religious pictures can
be found hanging on the walls, as much as for decoration, as for
devotion to patron saints. Household cloths are the products of the
women living in the house. Farm animals are frequent visitors inside
the house mostly when they are seeking shelter during bad weather
or when the sun sets.139


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:12:58 pm
This was observed by a visitor at the turn of this century:
   
   When the Azorean peasant is hungry and needs a stew, he gathers a few faggots,
   places them on the ground, sets on the kettle or stew-pan, lights the fire; then
   when the dish is cooked the doors and windows are opened and the smoke allowed
   to escape. . . The morning light is sure to discover all the animals nestling in
   and about his bed, from the huge black pig and the tiny donkey, down to cats,
   dogs, sheep, and calves, half-starved hens, clean fat rats and cosmopolitan fleas.140
   

Azoreans eat stew, fish, cornbread, cabbage, and potatoes. Cornbread
and cheese with water is a meal. Pork saugages are ritually made
and are spicy.141 There are no wells; therefore, cisterns are used to
collect rainwater. If there is a drought, some islanders have to walk 6
to 8 miles to find spring water which is collected in wooden pots and
carried by Azorean women balanced on their heads.142 

Famine and hunger are always a concern, as witnessed by this account:

   On the island of Corvo in the Azores we lived a hand-to-mouth existence.
   Sometimes a hurricane came in and out of the North Atlantic and wiped
   out the corn crop. When that happened, there was real hunger. We rationed
   what we had and prayed a lot."143


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:13:21 pm
Clothing

Last century the Azorean men dressed in coarse wool and linen
pants, shirts, and jackets, all homespun. Feet were bare while some
wore wooden shoes. A skull cap was worn with a tassel on top.
Azorean women used the same material for their clothing and wore
braided hair topped with a cap or handkerchief. They too were
barefooted.144 Some women wore a capote especially where the
Flemish influence was strong. A capote hasn't been worn on the
islands since the 1930's. It was a hooded cloak of dark blue
broadcloth brought to the Azores by the Flemish beguines, a lay-
religious group. This comment was made by a visitor in the
1870's: 145

   The strangest sight in Horta is the capote of the women, worn alike in summer
   and in the rainy season: this cloak is of heavy, dark-blue stuff, falling in
   massive folds to the ankles, and surmounted by a stupendous hood, stiffened
   with whalebone and buckram, and of astounding shape and size. Some pretty
   faces may occasionally be discerned under this grotesque guise.146 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:13:42 pm
Urban Environment

Villages are the hubs of daily Azorean activity. Farmers work their
fields during the day and return to their village home in the evening.
Shops are plentiful. For example, in the 1880's, the city of Ponta
Delgada had 23 clothing stores, 6 apothecaries, 139 grocery or liquid
stores, 12 butcher shops, 8 ironsmiths, 15 bootmakers, and 8 tailors.
A hospital had 400 beds147. 

Mark Twain praised the Azoreans for their well-kept villages:
   
   Every street is handsomely paved . . . and the surface is neat and true as a
   floor . . . Everywhere are walls, walls, walls -- and all of them are tasteful
   and handsome -- eternally substantial . . . the town and the island are
   miracles of cleanliness.148

The dairymen lived in the villages but had to ride their horse or
donkey daily up to higher elevations to milk and care for their stock
as seen in this experience:

   I milked the cows every day while they were giving milk. We kept the cows
   in our pastures; which were five to seven miles from home. When they were
   five miles from home, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to get there
   at daybreak . . . I would milk the cows and return home with the milk about
   noon. I had lunch, rested for an hour, then went to work in the fields for the
   balance of the afternoon . . . In the Azores, the people own pieces of land that
   they have inherited. Sometimes the parents from whom they inherited lived
   far away, on the other side of the district, five, six, or seven miles from
   where the children lived. Each family, also, had, its own pasture for cows,
   sheep, or whatever else they possessed. This was the way it was with us.149    



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:13:59 pm
Names, Schools, and Illiteracy

Surnames are seemingly unimportant to the Azorean. They will take
any surname that seems appropriate. Family members will often
have different surnames within one household. The wife sometimes
will take her husband's last name and quite often she will not. The
oldest son will take his father's last name while the next son will
take the mother's maiden name. Nicknames are common and many
are stuck with them for life.150

Education has no priority in a peasant society. The primary concern
of the peasant family is survival and that means everyone works to
assure it. No advantage is seen by going to school, and in fact, the
peasant feels that it is a detriment in that it takes the child away
from his responsibility at home. Schools have been available though
for those who are interested. The Portuguese government through
the centuries has never fully supported public education;
consequently, there is a very high illiteracy rate in the Azores.151 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:14:17 pm
Family, Village, and Island

In the Azores there is a hierarchy of loyalty. One's first loyalty is to
the family. It is the most important socio-economic unit in which
every member is expected to do his or her share to strengthen the
family's stability and well-being. The father is the head of the family
and makes the important decisions. Land and farm animals are
passed along to the each generation. This provides continued security
for the family members.152 

The Azoreans second loyalty is to the village which consists of a
network of families many which are interrelated by marriages. When
tragedy strikes one the village families, the rest of the village
contributes aid in the form of food, work, and care.153 

After the family and the village, the Azoreans next loyalty is to the
island on which he or she lives. Each island has a certain uniqueness
about it. The nationality of the settler is different; the industry,
topography, and religious celebrations are different. Dialects differ
too. The people of Sao Miguel have a harsher accent because of their
stronger Iberian heritage as compared to the Flemish-settled islands
where the spoken tone is softer and the language more sophisticated.
The Portuguese language throughout the Azores is different from the
mainland in tone, words, and style. The Portuguese spoken in the
Azores is an older and more conservative form because of the
archipelago's isolation.154


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:14:40 pm
Music

Azoreans are fond of music and dance. The viola is the dominant
instrument which is a guitar-like mandolin. In Terceira, the viola is a
little larger in size, and Spanish-like, because of the influence of the
Spanish occupation of the island, 1583-1643. The other islands have
the "viola dos dois coracoes" which is a guitar that has two heart-
shaped holes instead of one the large round whole in the middle of
the body of the instrument. It has 12 strings which is very similar to
the modern 12-string folk guitar. It is not uncommon for the man of
the house to play and sing after the family's evening meal for
relaxation and entertainment.155

Azorean folksongs are descriptive and colorful in keeping with the
tradition of the medeival troubador. They are about the joy and the
rigors of life. Verses for these songs are mostly improvised at the
moment of playing. This improvisation can become a contest between
singers which the Azoreans call "odesafio."156

The chamarrita is the folk dance of the Portuguese and is similar to
the traditional European folk dances. Usually the men and women
begin the dance in two separate lines, they circle, and then pair up.
The caller instructs the dancers on each move. The chamarrita is a
family dance enjoyed by all.157



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:15:01 pm
Religion, Superstition, and Witchcraft

Almost all Azoreans are Catholic, but there are Protestants and a
few Jews among the population. The islands were found under the
religious-militant organization, the Order of Christ, under Henry's
command. Cabral, the discoverer of the islands and first captain-
donatary, was a priestly knight within the order. The islands had
monks, friars, and priests among the first settlers, and they built
churches, chapels, monasteries, and convents.

The Azorean people were far removed from the events of the
Protestant Reformation and consequently were little-affected by it.
The Spanish occupation of the Azores came also at the time of the
Inquisition. The Azoreans opposed the Spanish presence, and
consequently the Inquisition. The Spanish were fearful of a revolt
and never enforced the Inquisition.158

Because of the Azorean's subjection to natural calamities, starvation,
and isolation, and their lack of education, it is understandble that the
Azoreans would have strong religious convictions and would turn to
superstition and maybe pagan witchcraft in times of trouble.159 They
have a belief in evil spirits, evil eyes, witches, magical potions, and
omens. For example, a piece of deerhorn hung around the neck of a
newborn is to ward off evil spirits until the infant gets christened.
They believe that a baby could get colic for three months by hanging
diapers in the moonlight.160

The following can cause bad luck: hurt someone's foot; knives that
are crossed at the table; walking over straw in the shape of a cross;
leaving liquid in a cup; and laughing on Friday. The following can
bring good luck: meeting a goat or frog on the road; salt melting is an
ill-person's hand; spider spinning a web; and spitting on a comb or
playing cards.161

In times of struggle promises are made to God or to patron saints.
Many Azoreans will promise to do some type of penance which
usually is praying at a certain chapel. Some promise to walk around a
church singing hymns.162 Curiously enough, Christopher Columbus
was involved in one such promise during his return voyage from the
new world.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:15:18 pm
One could say that Columbus was nearly Portuguese. He lived and
studied navigation in Portugal, spoke mostly Portuguese, and
married a Portuguese woman. On his return trip to Europe in 1493,
having just discovered the new world, his ship met a terrible storm,
and his crew, having a few Portuguese, made a promise to God that
they would perform an act of obedience if He would deliver them
from the calamity.163   

Here they are returning with the greatest news of the age, and their
first European stop is the Azores. They land at the island of Santa
Maria, and they walk to a chapel for prayer dressed only in their
shirts. That was their promise to God. The islanders saw this and
listened to their tale of a new world, and thought they were crazy.
The crew was promptly arrested. Columbus had to threaten to raid
the town to free them.164 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:15:36 pm
Azorean Festivals

The Azores are quite famous for their annual festivals or  "festas."
The festa honors some patron saint, such as St. Peter or St. Anthony.
Some festas focus on the Virgin Mary and Jesus. These celebrations
originated from promises made by Azoreans in times of need or
because of miracles. For example, the Festival of the Lord of Holy
Christ of Miracles is celebrated at Ponta Delgada each spring. A statue
of a suffering Christ is paraded and honored because it is believed
that this particular image caused a miracle in the 17th century. 

The Festival of Our Lady of Miracles is celebrated at Terceira
because of a promise from the people asking the Holy Mother to
deliver them from an invasion by the Spanish in the 17th century.
The Festival of the Holy Spirit is the most common festa. It
commemorates the feeding of the poor by St. Elizabeth of Hungary.
There is a coronation, a procession, and a feast for everyone.165


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:16:01 pm
Azorean Bullfighting

Bullfighting began in Greece and was adopted by the Romans who
transferred it to the Iberian Peninsula. The Muslims used men on
horseback to fight the bulls which evolved into the practice of using
cape and sword, the Spanish way. Bullfighting first appeared on the
island of Terceira in 1588. It is a "bloodless" affair with both the
bullfighter and bull surviving the best they can.166 There is another
type bullfighting which is also done on Terceira and is called
"tourada da corda" or roped-bull baiting.

In modern history, spring and early summer is the time for branding
cattle and with this is the battle of man and beast competing to see
who is the strongest. Also, with branding time comes man's rite of
spring in which he demonstrates his maleness to the opposite sex.
Thus, we have the background for tourada da corda.

In tourado da corda a 250 foot cord is tied to the neck of bull with
several men holding the other end. The perplexed bull is released in
town and is chased and tormented with umbrellas and other such
raiment. Azorean men test their courage against the bull's fickle
disposition. Some get hurt, but it is a joyous celebration which
everyone in town attends. The cord incidentally is the one way the
bull is brought under control when need be.167 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:16:34 pm
Important Historical Events

Dr. James H. Guill of Tulare, California is an American expert on the
history of the Azores. His 1972 publication of A History of the Azores
Islands and his 1993 work, A History of the Azores Islands:
Handbook, are two of the only English language histories available.
Any student of the islands should certainly have the latter work for
reference. Incidentally, there are no modern histories of the Azores
in Portuguese which is surprizing.

The Azores, because of its natural setting in the Atlantic, has
always been a resupply depot and a trading station for Atlantic
shipping. Horta, Angra, and Ponta Delgada harbors were in constant
use by ships of all nations even during wartime. Many types of
people have put ashore at these ports and have left something of
themselves there.168

The French, English, and pirates of all types raided the Azores and
attacked Spanish shipping along the coast.169 Angra, Terceira was the
center of government for the Azores, and when the Spanish took
control of Portugal in 1580, they wanted to claim the Azores as well.
On July 25, 1581, the Terceirans along with other Azoreans fought
the Spanish in a bloody land battle where cattle were released by the
Azoreans to disperse and stop the invaders.170

Undaunted, fifty Spanish ships bombarded the island with cannon.
The French sent troops to help the Azoreans, but the Spanish forces
prevailed. Soon though the Azoreans rejected the authoritarian rule
of the Spanish governor and were supported by 7,000 French and
English troops and 70 ships. Spain sent a fleet of ships and won the
battle. Another skirmish on land followed, but this time the Spanish
won. They held the Azores in what is called The Babylonian Captivity
of 1580-1642.171

The Azores were involved in the Portuguese Civil War which lasted
from 1820 to 1833. The Azoreans supported a constitutional
monarchy and repelled invaders from opposite side in 1829. This
resulted in a government for the Azoreans under the Portuguese
crown. The king gave them the latitude to make most local
governmental policy themselves.172

To end this discussion on the history of the Azores Islands, the
Dabney family of Boston needs to be mentioned. Various members of
the family served as U.S. Consul to the Azores through the 1800's.
Their consulate was in Horta, Faial, and they were closely involved in
commerce between the U.S. and the islands. The family had their
own ships, and they made major contributions to the islands. They
supported the whaling enterprise and were involved in connecting
the islands by submarine cable. Also they helped to erect a
breakwater at Horta which was extremely important to protecting
the habor.173

While Charles W. Dabney was U.S. Consul in the late 1850's, there
was a famine in the Azores. He had 43,000 bushels of corn shipped
to help alleviate the problem. In1858, he distributed at his own
expense wheat and Indian corn to 800 needy people on the island of
Pico with each receiving 1/2 lbs. of food daily for four months. In
1859, he solicited friends and countrymen in Boston to pay for
10,000 bushels of corn. He was praised by the Azoreans as seen in
this excerpt from an  official government statement: "This corn was
transported in the barque 'Azor' which he owned, free of cost; and he
also refused to accept any compensation for the use of his granaries,
and landed the corn at his own expense."174

http://wwwlibrary.csustan.edu/bsantos/azores.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:18:53 pm
1951
The City of Brass, by Egerton Sykes (a summary)

The late Mrs. Whishaw held a opinion in her book; "Atlantis in Andalucia", London, 1930, that in the days of far off Atlantis, the copper ore from the mines of Ro Tinto was shipped to the Motherland from the Port of Niebla on that river. She also considered that the use of the ores from that area initiated the pre-bronze age.

"Recent investigations suggest to me that orichalcum, that now unknown metal was used to cover the exterior surface of the great temple of Atlantis, as mentioned by Plato, may have been shinning sheets of brass."

The term orichalcum meant mountain brass, and may well have been applied to a whole series of metals of varying color, ranging from bright red to palest yellow.

"In essence the tale of the City of Brass is of an expedition to the Cyrenian desert in search of a fabled city of the dead, packed with treasure."

The stories about City of Brass include: The Arabian Nights, who traded and fought with the Cathay, Indies, the Middle east, and Lybia which is like the voyages of Hakluyt, London, 1589-1600. "After hearing the recital of a desert dweller whose grandfather actually saw the city, the party leave on their travels. About half-way, they find an equestrian statue in the sands, which when cleared of obstruction swings round on a pivot and points in the direction of the city. This statue recalls on the one hand the swing figures on the chariot of Wang Ti, the legendary Emperor of China which always pointed south, and also the equestrian statue found on the Island of Corvo in the Azores, by the Portuguese discoverers in the 15th Century, which was broken up for shipment to Lisbon and never seen again. The city when sighted, proved to have two towers covered with sheets of shinning Andalusian brass or copper, which was said to be equal to gold in value. After climbing the walls which were of black marble, the leader of the expedition found yet another brass equestrian statue, which actuated the mechanism opening the gates. Inside there was a staircase of different colored marbles, recalling that at Tiahuanaco." (Bellamy, H. S. 'Built before the Flood, London, 1946)

"The city was found to be tenanted solely by the shriveled bodies of the dead, and by the mummy bodies of the Queen and her court. This story links with the expeditions of Count de Prorok ('Mysteries Sahara'-1, and 'In quest of Lost Worlds'-2), who sought the palace of Queen Tin Hanan of Atlantis, and also with the Queen Antinea of the romance by Benoit."

"Burton ('The Thousand and One Nights, 1885-1888, vol V. pages 1 to 36) considered this story to be related to that of Many Columned Iram, but I do not share this opinion as Iram is linked with the Tower of Babel and with the foundations of Semitic Myth and its relationship to Atlantis is very distant." About 1,300 years ago a tribe migrated from the Sahara across Africa to the Ife Country of Nigeria. "Frobenius (Kniturgeschichte Afrikas, Zurich, 1933)

reports that with them they brought memories of a temple of brass in their ancestral city, and built to their divine ruler a huge temple of Brass with stables to hold ten thousand horses. This temple was in existence until recent times, while the tribe also worshipped a Posidonean god."

"Here we have a trail leading from Rio Tinto Copper mines, through Atlantis to North Africa, and from there to Nigeria a journey lasting some twelve thousand years but always carrying with it proof of the Atlantean civilization and culture."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2583/citybrass.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:20:54 pm
(http://www.returntoatlantis.com/retc/Atlantean_world.jpg) (http://www.returntoatlantis.com/retc/cadiz.gif)

Portions of the Atlantean world still visible today.

http://www.returntoatlantis.com/retc/modpics.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:22:05 pm
Chinese Phantom on Corvo Island, Azores!
By Reverend Ferreira Moreno
Oakland California

Gavin Menzies, a retired Royal Navy officer, in his recently published book entitled "1421, The year China Discovered America", states that the Chinese also discovered the Azores several years before the Portuguese reached the islands.

Menzies, who apparently never went ashore on any of the Azores islands, rests his absurd claim on a piece of information he found while reading the 1638 Madrid edition of "Epitome de las Hist¢rias Portuguesas." Its author, whose correct name is Manuel de Faria e Sousa (1590-1649), wrote about a statue of a rider, carved on the summit of a mountain on Corvo island, but the inscriptions at the bottom "we could not understand."

That's all Menzies needed to brazenly declare that "the Corvo horseman was indeed a Chinese statue, perhaps even of the Emperor Horseback Shu Di."  Surprisingly, as Menzies adds, "corroborative evidence that the Chinese may have inhabited the Azores comes from Christopher Columbus, who reported a local story of non-European bodies washed onto the beach at Flores, some twenty miles south of Corvo."

With all due respect to Gavin Menzies, I'm unequivocally convinced he went overboard in his far-fetched conclusions. Neither Columbus nor Sousa ever sailed the channel between Flores and Corvo. The reference to the legendary equestrian statue is an impudent plagiarism from a fictitious story written by Damiao de G¢is (1502-74), who never saw the Azores , even from a distance. Corvo is the smallest of the nine Azorean islands, with an area of less than seven square miles, and an estimated population of 400 people concentrated into one little village.

Caspar Frutuoso (1522-91) and Ant¢nio Cordeiro (1641-1722), both Azorean natives and the islands' earliest historians, classified the story of the statue as merely "antigualha mui not vel", (a very notable legend).

Diogo das Chagas (1575-1667), another native historian, whose brother did parish work in Corvo, made no reference whatsoever to the statue or to Chinese bodies washed ashore "onto the beach at Flores ."

A pair of distinguished English brothers, Joseph and Henry Bullar, wrote a meticulous book about their stay in the Azores (December 1838 to May 1839). In their description of Corvo, there is no mention of the existence of the legendary statue. Raul Brandao (1867-1930), the masterful writer of "As Ilhas Desconhecidas", devotes a whole chapter of his stay on Corvo, (June 17 to 30, 1924), without even a whisper about the statue.

The remotest possibility of a statue having been left on Corvo by ancient Phoenicians or Carthaginians (Centuries before the Chinese), was considered a fable by reputable Azorean historian Manuel Monteiro Velho Arruda.

Consequently, I encourage Gavin Menzies to read the "Collection of Documents Pertaining to the Discovery & Settlement of the Azores ", in which Velho Arruda wrote that as far back as 1317 (a century before the Chinese), "even though at the time there were no official plan to discoveries, the Portuguese may or may not have ventured to sail across the Atlantic ."

The truth remains: Until the Portuguese reached the Azores , the islands were entirely deserted, with no signs of previous human presence.
On this historic account, the late Dr. Jacinto Monteiro (1923-2003) also provided valuable documentation. As other sources of information, I recommend the 15 volumes of "Arquivo dos A‡ores" (Archives), particularly the second (1880) and the Third (1881) volumes, where the phantom statue is debated.

Additional information to dispel Menzies' claim can be found in the 1967 and 1987 editions of "A Ilha do Corvo" by Carlos Alberto Medeiros, as well as in the third volume of "Hist¢ria das Quarto Ilhas" by Silveira Macedo and also in "Not¡cia do Arquip‚lago dos A‡ores" by Garcia Ramos, wherein it is stated that the statue on Corvo "is nothing more than an optical illusion and a caprice of volcanic rocks."

In his "Relat¢rio" about Corvo, Fr. Jos‚ Ant¢nio Camoes (1777-1827), a native of Flores , emphatically denies both the existence of the equestrian statue and the ability of anyone ever climbing to such an inaccessible spot. The renowned scientist Jos‚ Agostinho (1888-1978), after his 1945 archaeological research on Corvo Island, clearly pointed out that the alleged statue is simply a piece of rock which, from a distance, accidentally resembles a rider.

Furthermore and contrary to what Menzies attempts to convey in the appendix of his book, there are neither records nor traditions of underground ruins from old Chinese structures. Fr. Louren‡o Jorge (1882-1918), a native of Corvo who left a manuscript recently published in book form, makes no mention of Chinese ruins. In closing, Fr. Francisco Xavier, who was the pastor of Corvo island from September 2002 to September 2003 and is presently stationed at Five Wounds Church in San Jos‚, CA., assured me that he never heard of, much less sighted, the phantom statue.

http://www.dightonrock.com/chinesephantomoncorvoislandazore.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:23:02 pm
The Azores were supposedly unpopulated when they were oiginally discovered, so it would be irrelevant if there were ever any local tales about the statue. As for Damiao de G¢is (1502-74), who wrote the account, never even seeing the Azores, well, that is debatable.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:23:43 pm
More about the statue. Manoel de Faria Sousa was the original chronicler of the statue, not Damio de Goes. And it would seem that, in the same area on Corvo where the Carthaginian coins were discovered, several stone buildings (since destroyed by earthquakes) once stood. That would seem to suggest that the idea that the Azores bore no signs of civilization prior to their discovery is a lie. At the very least, they were settled by the Phoenicians or the Carthaginians. Best case would be that they were settled by an even older civilization.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:25:26 pm
Subject: Carthaginian Station on Azores 320 BC (Re: Navigation --
to the New
From: SENECA@argo.rhein-neckar.de
Date: 1997/06/21
Message-ID: <6ZJhhm4Q3SB@argo.rhein-neckar.de>
Newsgroups: soc.history.ancient,sci.skeptic,
sci.archaeology.mesoamerican,sci.archaeology

Out of a book in German: Hennig, Richard: Terrae Incognitae, Leiden 1953,
Vol. III, Chapter 19 (p. 138 c.).

==========

DISCOVERY OF THE AZORES BY THE CARTHAGINIANS AND THE QUESTION OF AN EARLY
KNOWLEDGE OF AMERICA

(Time c. 320 BC, ancient sources not available)

[now Hennig cites a swedish source in german translation, what is like all
other here further translated to english, the german version appended
below]

From Goteborgske Wetenskap og Witterhets Samlingar 1778, I, 106:

"Some annotations to the voyages of the ancient, derived from several
Carthaginian and Cyrenian coins which were found in 1749 on one of the
Azores' islands.

By Johann Podolyn,

In November of 1749, after several days of storm from the west,
which caused part of the foundation of a destroyed stone building on the
beach of the island of Corvo to be exposed by the sea, a broken, black
clay container was discovered in which a lot of coins were found which
were brought to a monastery, where they were spread amongst the curious
natives. Part of the coins were sent off to Lisbon and from there later to
Father Florenz in Madrid.

The number of the coins found in the container is unknown, as is the
number of those sent to Lisbon. 9 coins arrived in Madrid, namely:

2 Carthaginian gold coins, No. 1 and 2
5 Carthaginian copper coins, No. 3 to 7
2 Cyrenian coins of the same metal, No. 8 and 9



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:25:57 pm
Father Florenz gave those coins to me as a present during my visitation of
Madrid in 1761 and reported that the whole discovery had not consisted of
more different kinds than those 9 and that these coins were selected as
the best preserved ones.

It is certain that the coins come partly from Carthage, partly from the
Cyrenaica. They are not very rare, except

[Drawing of the coins, obverse and reverse: The Carthaginian and Cyrenian
coins found in 1749 on the Azores. The two golden ones. Annotation by
Hennig: "These are two so-called serrati, according to Dannenberg's
Numismatics, Leipzig 1891, p. 155, striking is the location where they
were found."]

It is well-known that the Portuguese, first in the time of Alfons V., have
discovered the Azores. There is no clue for the assumption that someone
could have buried the coins there after that time. They must therefore
have arrived there together with some Punic vehicles, whereas I do not
dare to claim that the vehicle sailed there by intention, it could as well
have ended up there by coincidence.

Carthage and several Mauretanian cities sent off some ships over the
Strait of Gibraltar. Hanno's expedition to the African West Coast is
known, and one of these different vehicles might have been driven to Corvo
by constant wind from the east. Faria [annot. Hennig: Manoel de Faria e
Sousa: Epitome de las historias portuguezas, Madrid 1628] says in his
Portuguese History that the Portuguese, which then arrived first in that
country, found a horseman's statue by some foothills whose right hand
pointed to the west. This statue stood, according to Faria, on a stone
pedestal into which unknown letters were carved everywhere. The monument
was destroyed, which was a big loss. Blind eagerness was the cause for
this, as the statue was regarded as a pagan idol.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:26:25 pm
The statue strengthens my opinion that the islands were not only
accidentally visited by the Phoenicians or the Carthaginians but that they
had already settled there; for you cannot assume that a ship determined
either for trade or for discovery had the whole statue already on board.
You must rather conclude that they arrived there on one vehicle or several
ones, during one voyage or several ones, that the crew liked the land,
that they setteld there, established a municipality, kept up the
connection to their home, and that they achieved a wealth which allowed
them to build the mentioned monument.

It is also possible that the Carthaginians, whose eagerness in trade and
navigation is famous, took an expedition to the west from this island and
that the statue pointing to the west referred to that expedition. Storms,
earthquakes and volcanic eruptions which caused immense damage could also have been the cause for the emigration of the citizens who then erected the monument with the reference to the west in order to show which way
they left. Maybe they knew of any land there. Several speculations and
opinions can be expressed in favour and against, but it seems to be
sufficiently sure that the islands were visited by the ancients. Whether
coincidence or intention was the cause cannot be answered.

---------------



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:27:06 pm
Now discussion of the source by Hennig, p. 145, excerpt:

(...)

A clarification by the Munich numismatologist Prof. Bernhart, to whom the issue unknown until then was presented for a final decision by means of my explanations through my eager colleague Prof. Stechow-Munich, puts an end to the whole discussion. He let, through Stechow's mediation, the
following be reported to me:

"The doubt expressed by some people whether Father Flore was not
cheated by a crook, that the coins in fact did actually not come from the
Azores, was completely unthinkable; the discovery was c e r t a i n l y a
u t h e n t i c, i. e. it came from the Carthaginians. Simply because, at
that time, even the cleverest swindler was not able to put together such
an excellent series of Carthaginian coins from such a narrow period of
time (330-320 BC) correctly. In specialist circles, the Carthaginian and
Cyrenian coins were by far not known well enough, and the numasmatic
science was by far not experienced enough so that it was not even possible
to put together (for instance from pieces found in North Africa or Spain)
a set like that one, which was from such a narrow period of time. If
someone had wanted to create such a fraud at that time, he would have, in
the best case, put together coins from several different centuries; at
that time, no one would probably have noticed the fraud."

This authoritative expert opinion was announced by me in 1937. It is
probably final now. I have therefore spoken of a "numismatic final word"
and drawn the conclusion:

"The discovery of Corvo is proven to be authentic and therefore
the discovery of the Azores by the Carthaginians in late 4th century BC is
finally secured."

In fact, since 1937, under the weight of Bernhart's proofs, no one,
according to my knowledge, ever doubted again that the coins of Corvo
could have been brought to the location of the finding by the
Carthaginians themselves and that it must be an authentic depot finding.




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:27:34 pm
(...)
--------------------

Further on, Hennig accepts the visitation of the Azores by the
Carthaginians, but he believes: "It is very probable that their visit to
the Azores was quite involuntary." He means that a ship was driven there
by a storm. He completely ignores the statement of the source about the
location of the finding: "the foundation of a destroyed stone building on
the beach of the island of Corvo exposed by the sea", according to which
the clay jug with the coins was intentionally buried and not the leftover
of a wreck.

The stone building must have been from ancient times, otherwise the jug
would already have been discovered when the foundation was built.
These
circumstances make a repeated visitation of the Azores probable, otherwise
neither money nor buildings would have been left behind.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:27:55 pm
Hennig regards the horseman's statue as a legend and refers to stories
about the "picture columns of Hercules" and cites Arabian sources about
horseman's statues on islands in the Atlantic. He belives that the report
in the Portuguese History was fed by such legends. He does not even take
into consideration that such legends could come from ancient reports.

A very intersting part in the report regarding the horseman's statue is
that it is supposed to have "stood on a stone pedestal into which unknown
letters were carved everywhere". This is actually a clue to a Phoenician
origin! All other alphabets of that time, even the Arabic, Gothic and
Hebrew ones, were known to the Portuguese, although they perhaps could not read them. But they could not know Phoenician letters, that was the only
script that had died out more than 1000 years ago.

And there is another clue to this, Hennig, p. 146, writes: "Allegedly,
together with the coins of Corvo, mysterious writings in an unknown
language were found, which governor Pedro d'Afonseca is to have reproduced
in wax [Source: Mees, J.: Historie de la decouverte des Iles Acores, Gent
1901, p.25]. But they are, just like the reproduction, unfortunately
missing, and it is not determinable anymore what that was all about."
Hennig confuses language and writing here. The wax reproductions were
necessary to secure the letters, otherwise the writings could also have
been copied through handwriting.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:28:10 pm
These circumstances exclusively advocate a Phoenician/Carthaginian
discovery of the Azores and at least a temporary installation of a small
settlement (stone buildings) there. As a stopover from and to America it
would have been a perfect place for the support and maintenance of ships.
The finding report of the coins also hints why no traces of it are found today. In 1749, the foundation of the stone building was exposed by the sea during a storm. It was therefore near the beach. It has certainly not been built there because of the danger to be destroyed by the sea.
Apparently, in the past 2000 years, the sea has washed away more and more
of the coast, the Carthaginian settlement was originally probably a few
hundred meters on the land, 1749 the remains were on the beach and today
it is completely under water.

This is not a proof for the discovery of America in the ancient world, but
it is an interesting puzzle piece.

MfG

SENECA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/tran/jseneca.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:28:55 pm
Of course, Atlantis was supposed to have been destroyed by earthquakes. The following makes it clear just how unsettled the earth of the Azores can be:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Shaking, Spewing Earth
The Azores is a lively place to be. There is a continuous chain of
earthquakes and volcanic activity that has had a great effect on its
inhabitants. Many of them have left the islands in horror after
witnessing one of these catacylysmic events. But disasters are bound
to happen when a volcanic environment is home for thousands of
human beings.89

A warning of such calamity was signaled early in man's history on
the islands. When Cabral discovered Sao Miguel in 1444, he saw two
volcanic mountains, one at each end of the island. The next year
when he returned with supplies and additional settlers, he noticed
something was wrong. The western mountain was completely gone!
When he landed, he questioned the men he left behind from the
previous voyage, and found that during his absence, earthquakes
followed by volcanic explosions, collasped the crater. The years that
followed were labeled "the years of the ashes" because ash could be
found several feet deep on parts of the islands, and ash impeded
ocean traffic hundreds of miles at sea. The collasped crater at Sao
Miguel over the centuries has filled with rainwater forming two
lakes, and next to the lakes, a village can be found which was given
the mythological name, Sete Ciadades, or Seven Cities.90

There have been 21 major volcanic eruptions in the past 550 years
collectively occurring on the islands of Sao Miguel, Terceira, Pico, Sao
Jorge, and Faial.91 In 1562, there was an eruption on Pico causing the
residents to flee in horror to the other islands. In 1580, on Sao Jorge,
12 people and 4,000 head of cattle were killed.92 In 1630, on Sao
Miguel, 200 people were killed and numerous cattle during an
eruption. In 1811 an volcanic islet, one mile in length, formed off the
coast of Sao Miguel. A British Union Jack was planted on it claiming it
for Great Britain. But the protruding islet sank back into the sea
taking the British flag with it.93 As late as 1957, another volcanic
islet arose off the coast of Faial, but this one connected to the island
destroying a lighthouse in the process.94 As one can see, the Azores is
a living volcanic nightmare that has violently made itself known
often through the island chain's history much to the detriment of its
residents.

The earthquakes have been just as destructive. There have been 18
major temblors on the islands in recorded history.99 One such quake
took place in 1522 when the entire village of Villa Franca, on Sao
Miguel island, having 5,000 residents, and being the center of
government, was engulfed within sixty seconds by land mass thrown
from a hill behind the village. It caused a tidal wave and other
destruction in the adjascent islands. It took a year to dig the village
out and to give Christian burials to its 5,000 victims.100

As recently as 1980, a massive earthquake underneath the ocean
near the islands of Sao Jorge, Terceira, and Graciosa took 60 lives;
destroyed 5,278 homes, 32 churches, 6,000 other structures; and
made 21,296 people homeless.101

This litany of volcanic and earthquake disaster, has indelibly burned
itself into the psyche of the Azorean people. Some remain on the
islands with courage and determination, depending upon their
religious faith to see them through, while others emigrate and with
good reason.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:29:14 pm
But They are Beautiful!

The Azores islands are like the mythical sirens sailors believe in,
always dangerously beautiful. Most immigrants leave the Azores
with the idea of returning to their verdant isles with their majestic
cliffs, charming villages, and whitewashed homes glistening in the
sun. Many do return, but usually just to visit. However, a few do
make the islands their retirement home after working in the United
States for decades. They have their well-earned social security
checks sent to them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.mirapico.dk/azores.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:29:52 pm
Here is a description of the 1755 Lisbon earthquake that would seem to be both timely and relevant to the discussion of the destruction of Atlantis. The 1755 earthquake wasn't as powerful as the one that struck South Asia, and it's epicenter wasn't in the Azores, but rather southwest of Cape Vincent, but it still gives a good idea about how far-reaching the damage was at the time:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Depictions of the 1755 Lisbon Earthquake
Jan T. Kozak, Institue of Rock Mechanics, Czech Academy of Science
Charles D. James, National Information Service for Earthquake Engineering

Note: With permission, this paper is abridged and edited from drafts of a longer work in progress by V. S. Moreira, C. Nunes and J. Kozak on the Lisbon Earthquake of 1755.

Although not the strongest or most deadly earthquake in human history, the 1755 Lisbon earthquake's impact, not only on Portugal but on all of Europe, was profound and lasting. Depictions of the earthquake in art and literature can be found in several European countries, and these were produced and reproduced for centuries following the event, which came to be known as "The Great Lisbon Earthquake."

The earthquake began at 9:30 on November 1st, 1755, and was centered in the Atlantic Ocean, about 200 km WSW of Cape St. Vincent. The total duration of shaking lasted ten minutes and was comprised of three distinct jolts. Effects from the earthquake were far reaching. The worst damage occurred in the south-west of Portugal. Lisbon, the Portuguese capital, was the largest and the most important of the cities damaged. Severe shaking was felt in North Africa and there was heavy loss of life in Fez and Mequinez. Moderate damage was done in Algiers and in southwest Spain. Shaking was also felt in France, Switzerland, and Northern Italy. A devastating fire following the earthquake destroyed a large part of Lisbon, and a very strong tsunami caused heavy destruction along the coasts of Portugal, southwest Spain, and western Morocco.

The oscillation of suspended objects at great distances from the epicenter indicate an enormous area of perceptibility. The observation of seiches as far away as Finland, suggest a magnitude approaching 9.0. Precursory phenomena were reported, including turbid waters in Portugal and Spain, falling water level in wells in Spain, and a decrease in water flow in springs and fountains.

Detailed descriptions of the earthquake's effects in Morocco, were, in some cases, based on Portuguese manuscripts written by priests. The cities of Meknes, Fez, and Marrakesh in the interior, and the coastal towns of Asilah, Larache, Rabat, and Agadir (Santa Cruz during the Portuguese occupation) suffered much damage in the quake. Mosques, synagogues, churches, and many other buildings collapsed in Meknes, where numerous casualties were reported. The convent, church, and Hospital de S. Francisco collapsed completely.

The Fire
Soon after the earthquake, several fires broke out, mostly started by cooking fires and candles. Some of them were rapidly extinguished, especially in the densely populated areas. But many inhabitants fled from their homes and left fires burning. Narrow streets full of fallen debris prevented access to the fire sites. The public squares filled with people and their rescued belongings, but as the fire approached, these squares were abandoned, and the fire reached catastrophic proportions. Looters setting fire to some ransacked houses caused the belief that the fire had a criminal origin. The flames raged for five days.

All of the downtown area, from St. Paul's quarter to St. Roch, and from Carmo and Trindade to the Rossio square area to the Castle and Alfama quarters were burned, along with the Ribeira, Rua Nova, and Rossio quarters. Remolares, Barrio Alto, Limoeiro, and Alfama, were partially burned.

Several buildings which had suffered little damage due to the earthquake were destroyed by the fire. The Royal Palace and the Opera House were totally gutted by the flames. The Patriarchal suffered relatively little damage in the earthquake, and religious services continued there during the afternoon, but the church was evacuated as the fire approached. Later the building was completely burned out.

The Tsunami
Immediately after the earthquake, many inhabitants of Lisbon looked for safety on the sea by boarding ships moored on the river. But about 30 minutes after the quake, a large wave swamped the area near Bugie Tower on the mouth of the Tagus. The area between Junqueria and Alcantara in the western part of the city was the most heavily damaged by the wave, but further destruction occurred upstream. The Cais de Pedra at Rerreiro do Paco and part of the nearby custom house were flattened.

A total of three waves struck the shore, each dragging people and debris out to sea and leaving exposed large stretches of the river bottom. In front of the Terreiro do Paco, the maximum height of the waves was estimated at 6 meters. Boats overcrowded with refugees capsized and sank. In the town Cascais, some 30 km west of Lisbon, the waves wrecked several boats and when the water withdrew, large stretches of sea bottom were left uncovered. In coastal areas such as Peniche, situated about 80 km north of Lisbon, many people were killed by the tsunami. In Setubal, 30 km south of Lisbon, the water reached the first floor of buildings.

The destruction was greatest in Algarve, southern Portugal, where the tsunami dismantled some coastal fortresses and, in the lower levels, razed houses. In some places the waves crested at more than 30 m. Almost all the coastal towns and villages of Algarve were heavily damaged, except Faro, which was protected by sandy banks. In Lagos, the waves reached the top of the city walls. For the coastal regions, the destructive effects of the tsunami were more disastrous than those of the earthquake.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:30:25 pm
In southwestern Spain, the tsunami caused damage to Cadiz and Huelva, and the waves penetrated the Guadalquivir River, reaching Seville. In Gibraltar, the sea rose suddenly by about two meters. In Ceuta the tsunami was strong, but in the Mediterranean Sea, it decreased rapidly. On the other hand, it caused great damage and casualties to the western coast of Morocco, from Tangier, where the waves reached the walled fortifications of the town, to Agadir, where the waters passed over the walls, killing many.

The tsunami reached, with less intensity, the coast of France, Great Britain, Ireland, Belgium and Holland. In Madeira and in the Azores islands damage was extensive and many ships were in danger of being wrecked.

The tsunami crossed the Atlantic Ocean, reaching the Antilles in the afternoon. Reports from Antigua, Martinique, and Barbados note that the sea first rose more than a meter, followed by large waves.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://nisee.berkeley.edu/lisbon/


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 27, 2008, 11:31:36 pm
A volcanic undersea rock which was formed in land

In 1898, during the installation of a telegraphic line, broke one of the wires which had been installed in 2800 m depth at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in the place which has been named since then "Telegraph square". While special machinery was trying to remove the edges of the wire from the bottom of the sea a strange rock was brought to the surface. Several years later, Paul Tremie, head of the oceonographical institude of France, organised a conference in Paris. That rock had obviously volcanic origin and the most importand was that it hadn' t been solidified in the bottom of the sea but in the air. That is, it must have come of a volcano whose crater was above sea level. It ,also, had sharp sides which were not been corrosive by water. By analyzing it, Tremie estimated that it must have been 15000 years old. Later undersea foundings confirmed that the same type of rocks existed in a huge area at the depth of the Atlantic Ocean.

(Republication from Anastasia Nanou's article "Searching for Atlantis", in the magazine "MYSTIC-mysteries of the
world", July-August 2000)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=5

http://www.atlantida.gr/EndiaforaEbrimata.htm


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 03, 2009, 10:46:20 am








Great information, as usual, dhill!!!


Thank you!!!




I was able to locate the rest of the article that you posted at the beginning, to which access
was denied:


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 03, 2009, 10:50:42 am









dhill757
Hero Member

Posts: 503



    Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
« Reply #163 on: December 27, 2008, 05:32:38 am » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                                               Who discovered the Americas?






Zeeya Merali



Skull analysis suggests Australians got there first.

From the BA Festival of Science, Exeter, UK.

Traditional colonization theories hold that the first wave of humans to migrate to the Americas came from Siberia.


The first colonizers of the Americas came from Australia, according to archaeologists who have analysed skulls from 12,000-year-old skeletons found in California. The finding contradicts the traditional view that the first immigrants were the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

The skulls, taken from skeletal remains found in the desert of the Baja California peninsula in Mexico, are long and narrow. "This is completely different to the Native Americans' rounder skull shape," explains lead researcher Silvia Gonzalez from the Liverpool John Moores University, UK.

The skeletons are housed by the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City. They were embedded in volcanic deposits that deteriorated the structure of the bones and made them difficult to date accurately. But the skulls' intriguing form has driven researchers to work out how old they are.

Gonzalez and her team announced their first set of results on 6 September at the Exeter-based Festival of Science, run by the British Association for the Advancement of Science. They have managed to radiocarbon date 4 of the 27 skeletons. So far, the oldest, belonging to an individual called Peñon Woman III, is 12,700 years old.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040906/full/040906-5.html 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 03, 2009, 10:53:18 am




HERE IS THE REST OF IT:








Cue from the Pericues



Traditional colonization theories hold that the first wave of humans to migrate to the Americas came from Siberia at the end of the last ice age. Skeletons of these migrants are dated at about 9,000 years old. So Gonzalez says the new evidence means that the Siberians, who are related to modern day Native Americans, did not get there first after all.

She believes the lost tribe of immigrants, known as the Pericues, are related to modern Australian Aborigines, who have a similar skull shape, and that they became extinct between 200 and 300 years ago. "There are eighteenth century reports from missionaries in Baja California of thin, hunter-gatherer, shellfish-eating people," says Gonzalez. "These seafaring travellers would have followed a corridor around the Pacific coast from Australia, along the coast of Japan, to Baja."

"The theory that the first migrant population to the Americas is not connected to the current Native Americans has been debated for five to ten years," says Chris Stringer at the Natural History Museum in London. "If Dr Gonzalez has dated these skeletons accurately, then this is a very exciting result."

The researchers now hope to strengthen their theory of a link with aboriginal Australians by doing a DNA analysis of the Pericue skeletons' bones.



Article Copyright © 2004 MacMillan Publishers Ltd.



http://www.bioedonline.org/picks/news.cfm?art=1147


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:34:08 am
Thanks, Bianca, the problem with posting just the links is that the stories tend to disappear from the internet at times.  That's why I'm happy that most of the time, I printed both the stories and the links.  Of course, in my opinion, the information is presented better here than it was at AR! 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:38:15 am
The (not so) Fortunate Islands

Around 100 BC, a Roman author and geographer that listened to the name Marcellus, wrote that the legend of
Atlantis was still being preserved on a group of islands in the Atlantic Ocean. In 450 AD Proculus Diadochus, in an
attempt to verify what Marcellus had written so many centuries ago, went on a journey to the Islands of the Blessed
or Fortunate Islands, located at only a day sailing off the coast of Mauretania. He could only acknowledge Marcellus’
findings. For centuries, the Canaries were referred to as the Fortunate Islands, as is shown on various ancient maps
and descriptions. But where would someone ca. 100 BC get such accurate information on the inhabitants of
unexplored islands in a far away corner of the world? Surely, he didn’t go there himself! Could it be the information
came from a much older source?

In his Topographia Christiana, a description of the universe, Cosmas Indicopleustes of Alexandria described the Canary Islands as ‘The land man came from before the great flood’. It has been estimated the work has been written between 535 and 548 AD, in a Sinai cloister. Today, looking at his maps makes scientists smile, because his view of the world was far from accurate, but why would he pick this rather small archipelago as the place where man came from before the flood, inevitably linking it with Plato’s Atlantis. Are we overlooking something? In Critias we read:

“For when there were any survivors, as I have already said, they were men who dwelt in the mountains; and they
were ignorant of the art of writing, and had heard only the names of the chiefs of the land, but very little about their
actions.”
[Critias]


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http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:39:34 am
The Canary archipelago consists of 7 islands, but when the Portuguese discovered the islands, stories were being told about an eighth island, that was sometimes seen to the West of La Palma, El Hierro and La Gomera. When sailors tried to reach it, the island was covered in mist and disappeared. Stories about ghost islands like this one seem imaginative tales at first, but there may be some form of truth in it. In 1867 an island suddenly rose from the sea near Terceira in the Azores, but only a few days later it was swallowed again by the sea. Maybe the eighth island was not just a story either, because events like this are indeed possible in this region, as the Canaries lay in a highly active volcanic zone.
The seven islands and six islets of the Canaries are in fact the emerged tips of a volcanic mountain range, situated just West of the African Continental Margin and hidden by the Atlantic Ocean. This means that under the surface of the deep blue ocean they are connected. It is a fact that the waters surrounding the islands are very deep, but to say they all rise directly from the ocean floor is just not a correct statement. It would only be true for part of the archipelago, more specifically the western part with Tenerife, La Palma, El Hierro and La Gomera. These islands are indeed volcanic peaks going all the way down to the deep Atlantic floor. Lanzarote, Fuertaventura and the six islets though are flatter islands, yet also volcanic, but emerging from a submarine plateau, known as the Canary Ridge. This
ridge rises approximately 4,600 feet from the bottom of the ocean. Because of the extreme volcanism in this region (the whole archipelago was formed after volcanic eruptions and it is said that the volcanism in the area is the result of a mantle hotspot under the islands), it is possible that once a landmass in this area was above the surface, and did
not just sink because of the rising of the sea level, but more because of seismic activity such as earthquakes and tsunamis combined with or caused by volcanic eruptions at the end of the last Ice Age.


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http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:40:03 am
The waters surrounding the Canaries are a true paradise for divers, and certainly not only because of the underwater fauna and flora. It seems like the same volcanic surface we find on the islands continues under water: volcanic rock formations, caves, tunnels, lava reefs. This shows that at some point in history volcanic eruptions and lava floods
changed the appearance of the ocean bottom in this region, maybe even hiding traces of Atlantis under a tick layer of
lava. Lanzarote, for instance, experienced in the 18th century a 6 years long volcanic eruption, altering a significant
part of its surface. Furthermore little is known about the ‘original’ ocean floor: it’s not exceptional for large parts to slide under the mantle again and disappear in the burning depths of the earth. In this process, deep trenches are formed in the ocean. This could have happened in the Canary region as well.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:41:28 am
But how dangerous is this area geologically? And are disasters likely to happen there again? Unfortunately the
answer seems to be yes. In an article that appeared in the Guardian Newspaper in August 2001 British and US scientists warn that an eruption of the Cumbre Vieja on La Palma could cause one of the worst disasters in the history of mankind. In that article we read:

“A lump of rock twice the volume of the Isle of Man would slide down theunstable western flank of the mountain at more than 200mph and travel up to 40 miles along the sea floor. This would set off the worst tsunami, or giant wave, ever recorded.”
(The Guardian, August 29, 2001)

The damage would be enormous, probably worse than we could ever imagine, easily reaching the African coast and the South of Europe with Portugal and Spain. Buildings would be swept away like card houses. Of course the
Canaries themselves wouldn’t be spared either. Simon Day of the Benfield Greig geohazard research centre at University College London said:

“The first wave is going to come in, maybe take out the first few blocks, take the debris away, flatten the ground.
The next wave takes out blocks progressively further inland. Over a large part of the area that is inundated, you will
be seeing near-total destruction."

Tsunamis are active in the complete water mass from the ocean floor all the way to the surface, unlike regular waves
that only affect the water near the surface. Therefore these giant waves tend to start going faster in deeper parts of the ocean . If this is possible today, it’s certainly an option that at the end of the last Ice Age in this highly volcanic zone tsunamis of the same kind took place, triggered by volcanic eruptions and seismic activity. This could have meant the end of Atlantis, and following Dr. Simon Day’s statement about the effects of the waves, it is not such a big surprise that today we find none or only a few traces of this once great civilization. The remains of Atlantis could be widely spread on the ocean floor by the power of the water, perhaps covered with lava, sand and rocks.

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http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:43:33 am
For discoveries in that region we had to wait until 1981, when an expedition lead by Pippo Cappellano found some mysterious ruins with strange carved symbols on the ocean floor near the coast of Lanzarote. At a depth of about 50
feet and over an area of 900 square feet, they found large flat stones that look like they were carefully put into place.
These blocks were followed by wide stone steps. But that’s not all. On the other side, near the Moroccan coast, a
several miles long undersea wall has been discovered and photographed. What is hidden on the bottom of the
Atlantic? Are these the remains of the sunken civilization Atlantis?
Like with the Yonaguni structures, many orthodox scientists claim they are natural forms, without adequate research, seemingly to avoid having to admit any mistakes in our history books.
The underwater structures in the Canary region were found at a depth of only 50 feet. That means they were
probably still above water some 2000 years ago.
Therefore researchers concluded that Romans, Greeks or
Phoenicians must have built them. But none of them ever colonized the Canaries, so what would drive them to build these structures? There is indeed evidence, like some Roman amphoras, that indicates Europeans stopped by in the region, but their presence was probably of no substantial importance. It seems more logical to follow another path. Not everything of Atlantis sunk, so these structures could still be the last remains of the empire, swallowed by the
sea around the time of Christ.



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http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:45:17 am
Anno Domini 1331: it was the year when the first Portuguese sailor set foot on Canary grounds, rediscovering an
inhabited archipelago that, until then, had existed in almost perfect isolation from the rest of the world. The peaceful
isolation for both the islands and their people would soon come to a brutal end, because many more ships would
follow. But who were these islanders and where did they come from? Fact is that their presence on these islands
was a strange anomaly given their position near the African continent. They were tall, had a light skin colour and often blonde hair: not exactly what you would expect in these regions! They were called ‘Guanches’, from Guan
Chenech or Man from Chenech, as they themselves called the island Tenerife. In time, that name became common for
the inhabitants of the whole archipelago. How and when they got there is unknown, because they even lacked the knowledge to build boats. Scientists said they couldn’t have been there thousands of years before Plato’s time, but new evidence from archaeological examinations indicates a human presence on the islands from at least 4,000 BC (so maybe earlier), redefining the accepted view for inhabitation of the islands.
It looks like the European explorers found the last tribes of pure Cro-Magnon origin, which explains their physical features. The Cro-Magnon’s were Homo Sapiens Sapiens, and lived between 45,000 and 10,000 years ago. They were the first modern people in both physical appearance and intellect. Gradually they replaced the Neanderthals in
Europe. It seems that somehow the Guanches survived the extinction of the Cro-Magnon man, probably because life
was quite easy on their isolated islands. However, their culture seems to be evolving in a downward spiral. Instead
of innovating and advancing technologically and culturally, they seem to degenerate back to a Stone Age culture.

The origin of the Guanches remains a mysterious haze. Researchers linked them with the Berbers from North Africa,
but in Charles Berlitz’s ‘The Lost Ship of Noah’ we read that they told the Spanish that they had always thought they
were alone on the earth and that everyone else drowned in the Great Flood. It is not such a big step to link them with Atlantis, because they believed they once lived in a large land with cities, fertile plains and rivers. At a certain moment in time this prosperous empire was flooded and only a few people managed to escape death by climbing on the volcanic top Teide. The Canary Islands would be the highest peaks of this sunken civilization. This archaic memory is intriguing to say the least.

On various places on the islands ancient inscriptions have been found, but in the 14th Century the Guanches had long
forgotten their meaning. There are important differences in these inscriptions: there seem to be signs resembling the Phoenician and Numidian alphabet, but probably this wasn’t their original script, because I also found pictures of petroglyphs depicting strange symbols that look like a script. It seems like the Guanches simply forgot how to read and write. Adding up the facts definitely rings a bell to anyone who read the Timaeus & Critias dialogues, because the Atlanteans too forgot their knowledge of the written word.

Plato’s writings of how the Kings of Atlantis would meet at a central point on the island to discuss laws and politics
definitely resemble the Guanche culture. Just like the Atlantean kings the Guanche kings would meet at a ‘Tagaror’ or meeting place to vote new laws and hold political debates. The reader will notice how this doesn’t fit for Stone
Age people. On Tenerife there were 9 little kingdoms and a neutral area in the middle. The 9 kings or Menceys as
they called themselves ruled there piece of land as if it was a country. Each kingdom knew three classes: the
monarchy, the nobility and the lower class.These social structures might seem a bit ridiculous because the island is really not that big, but they could be based on a memory from the past they tried to copy on their island. An extract
from Critias explains the link with Atlantis:

“Each of the ten kings in his own division and in his own city had the absolute control of the citizens, and, in most cases, of the laws, punishing and slaying whomsoever he would.

According the Plato the Atlanteans were amongst the best sailors in the world. Despite the fact that the Guanches
didn’t know how to build boats, there is evidence on the islands that once they did have this knowledge. This
evidence comes in the form of rock art like for example in Pico de Don David on Fuertaventura: here we find a very
clear drawing of a large ship. This is certainly not a little boat used on a lake or river, but undoubtedly a vessel that
was perfect for ocean expeditions.

And there is more: a central characteristic of the Atlantean empire was the use of a mixture of red, black and white stones. This extraordinary combination, most probably of volcanic origin, can be found all over the Canaries. On Lanzarote, the Guanches built long, conic pillar-like monuments in red, black and white stone. Due to seismic
activity on the islands all except one collapsed. This remaining monument can be visited at the coast near Arrecife.
These three colour designs are also found in rock paintings like the ones in the Cueva Pintada (painted cave) on Gran
Canaria.

That is the evidence we can confirm today, but there are also reports from temples in the same three colours.
Unfortunately the Christians destroyed all of them. The best-preserved ruin can be found on La Palma. Called Efeguen, their resemblance with Atlantean architecture does not limit itself to just the colour scheme, but also the construction designs. The Efeguen consisted of 2 concentric walls, one inside the other. Then in the centre of the inside wall there was a large altar, placed on a platform. This could be a reference to Poseidon’s altar, placed in a temple in the centre of the city.
The resemblance is certainly there, and perhaps the Guanches built these temples, of which they remembered the basic shape from a distant past, as a way to remember and honour their ancestors.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on January 12, 2009, 02:46:57 am
Influence on Egypt: The Guanches mummified their dead and the mummification techniques they used were almost identical to those used in ancient Egypt, although fact is that the Egyptians attained a higher form of perfection. Both cultures would balm the bodies before removing the internal organs that were kept aside in special vases. Also the bandages were used the same way, and similar offering in both cultures complete the circle.
Influence on America: there are pyramids on the Canaries that resemble monuments from ‘the opposite continent’
like in Mexico and Peru, and they seem to be aligned to the sunset on the summer solstice. But I wouldn’t exclude a link with Egypt either, because the alignment reminds me of Giza and the basic shape makes me think of for example Djoser’s step Pyramid from the Third Dynasty. Their purpose though was completely different and the Canary pyramids didn’t have an inside.

Influence on Greece: just like the Atlas we know from Greek mythology the Guanche god Achaman ‘he who carried the world’ was depicted as a mountain that separated heaven and earth, or as carrying heaven on his shoulders.
Furthermore the first King of Atlantis was called Atlas. This suggests they were actually one and the same.

When Thor Heyerdahl started investigating the pyramids on the Canaries, many people claimed them to be nothing more than piles of rubbish, despite the fact that the Guanches themselves tell us about these pyramids and their rituals involving these monuments. A central point in their religion was the belief that if their main pyramid collapsed, it would mean the end of their island in the same way Atlantis sunk.

Unlike what many people think, the Canary Islands didn’t get their name from the birds who share their name, but
from the dogs that lived on the islands. The Latin name of the islands was ‘Insulae Canariae’ or Islands of dogs.
These dogs were a central part in the religious culture of the Guanches, with a position just under Achaman, who was
the Canary equivalent of the Greek Atlas. Dogs were also an important part of the Egyptian culture. Take for example their god Anubis, always portrayed as a man with the head of a dog.

The Canary Ridge we described earlier in this survey is such an uplifted part of the earth and much of the religion of the Guanches is also about such a disaster. In their culture there was a group of holy virgins, called the Harimagada. Every year this group jumped in the sea and
drowned. With this voluntary offer they tried to prevent that their island would sink in the sea.

Sopdit, the Egyptian god whose appearance on June 15 in the form of the dog star meant the start of the new year,
was honored as ‘the western’ and the story goes that he documented the history from before the Great Flood, that
destroyed his ‘island-house’ in the far West.


My conclusion is that the Guanches lost their advanced knowledge in a flood, which resulted in the fact that their culture degenerated for many millennia because there was no contact with the outer world. In the mean time, that outer world continued to progress with the Egyptians, and later the Romans, Greeks and Phoenicians. The Guanches were isolated from the rest of the world, and they were heading back towards the Stone Age in their time machine of amnesia.

Sources:

* Timaeus and Critias (360 B.C.): Benjamin Jowett translations
* The Canary Balcony: http://home.pi.be/~p4u00071/canarias/can-eng.html#menuitems
* Atlantisquest: http://www.atlantisquest.com
* Shadowlands website: http://www.theshadowlands.net/atlantis/
* Atlan: http://www.atlan.org/
* Factmonster website: http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/world/A0856755.html
* Graham Hancock: Fingerprints of the Gods (1994 edition)
* Andrew Collins’ website: http://www.andrewcollins.net
* The 1911 Encyclopedia: http://43.1911encyclopedia.org
* Sunrise Magazine, August/September 1999
* Lonely Planet website: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/europe/canary_islands/environment.htm
* USGS/Cascades Volcano Observatory, Vancouver, Washington : http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/CanaryIslands/description_canary_islands_volcanics.html
* Website of Bryan Cousens: Research Adjunct Professor Igneous Petrology and Isotope Geochemistry: http://www.carleton.ca/~bcousens/volcanopage.html
* Wave of disaster warning: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4246811,00.html
* New York Times May 21, 1978: article on Soviet expedition on the Atlantic Ampere Seamount, cited on various
sites on the internet.
* Jules Verne: 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
* Dutch site with information on Guanches & Atlantis: http://www.home.zonnet.nl/pollie_37/Atlantis_2.html
* Jonah G. Lissner: Evidence for the Ancestors of the Guanches as Founders of Predynastic Egypt : http://joe3998.tripod.com/guanches/
* Charles Berlitz: The Lost Ship of Noah
* Talk Origins page on Cro Magnons: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cromagnon.html
* Info on Djoser’s step pyramid: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/arth/zoser/zoser.html
* Photographs of Djoser’s step pyramid: http://www.waseda.ac.jp/projects/egypt/sites/pyramids/saq03/saq03ph-E.html
* Fred Olsen: Pirámides de Güímar: http://www.fredolsen.es/piramides/index.htm
* Institutum Canarium: http://www.institutum-canarium.org/[/QUOTE]

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/VandecruysG1.php?p=1

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=5


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: History Detective on January 14, 2009, 06:50:39 pm
There is something you must see. This guy has definately and without a doubt found the location of Atlantis. Go to http://theeclecticintellect.blogspot.com or to http://theeclecticintellect.weebly.com


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: BlueHue on January 15, 2009, 03:15:02 pm
DEAR " HISTORY DETECTIVE "

Your entry is dated yesterday so it cannot be a " Non reply"still-copy by dear Bianca @!
This Block remains without commentary because it is" READ ONLY " no username account

I am sorry to debuke this Theory : America as Atlantis is a Hoax by Donnelly & Cayce, just
as SPAIN as Atlantis because Eratosthenes transferred the PILLARS to Gibraltar in 250 bc.
for the following reason: Please read my subscript before you comment ! ???
 than get back to me ! :'( :'( :'( 15-Jan 2009


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 16, 2009, 08:27:31 pm






Thank you, dhill. 

Great informations as usual, you certainly bring us an 'avalanche' of it when you come back
from you INVOLUNTARY absences.

Here are some pictures from mdsungate's MOROCCO AND EASTERN ATLANTIS that will help
illustrate your posts:


(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/Moroccosunkenbuilding.jpg)




MdSungate scanned this picture for us from Charles Bertlitz's "Atlantis, the Eighth Continent"

A bit hard to see - the last printing of the book is 1084.....


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 16, 2009, 08:30:20 pm







The same expedition as in Berlitz's book (Above).



By 1981 an expedition lead by Pippo Cappellano found some mysterious basaltic ruins on the ocean
floor near the coast of Lanzarote.

At a depth of about 50 feet and over an area of 900 square feet, they found large flat stones that
look like they were carefully put into place.
These blocks were followed by wide stone steps. But that’s not all: an undersea wall also was disco-
vered which was formed by recular triangular blocks.
 
 
(http://atlantis.religionstatistics.net/alyan1.jpg)
 

Mr. Cappellano and the structures found
undersea; as all good places where hypo-
thetic Atlantean buildings made of basalt
(...) have been found, also Tenerife has
its own misterious "constructions".





INFO: The basaltic rocks can form geometric structures when suffer high temperatures and pressures, as per example the formations of North Ireland.


http://atlantis.religionstatistics.net/


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 16, 2009, 08:33:51 pm






Well, it seems so far that Pippo Cappellano is an author of some renown over in Italy, but I don't
know yet if I could buy any books online from the US. 

Most of what I found is underwater/scuba material for him.  Like a book called the "Underwater Photographer".

I presume that after all these years, he never went back to the Canaries.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 16, 2009, 08:36:25 pm










                                             Lanzarote: Un Noveau Bimini?





Yes, we are drawing on the French language journals again; this time from Kadath, an
archeological publication from Belgium. The reason, of course, is that the mainstream
English-language archeological journals are notoriously conservative and, well,
mainstreamish!

The catchword in the title is "Bimini," a word which loses nothing in translation, for it is
well-known in that States as one of the Bahamian resort islands.

It was in the waters off Bimini that divers found the famous Bimini "road" or "wall," which
some maintain is constructed of human-sculpted stone blocks.

(See our handbook Ancient Man.)



Lanzarote, on the other hand, is one of the Canary Islands.

Here, too, one finds a submerged, Bimini-like row of apparently man-made blocks of
stones. Some 22 meters down, the blocks are arranged in a sort of staircase, as
shown in the figure. The steps, however, are 40-cm high, too big a step for humans.

Is this structure a submerged pier, an altar, or something else. No one knows.

Possibly relevant is a statuette, stylistically Olmec, which was also found in Lanzarote
waters. (Bajocco, Alf; "Lanzarote: un Nouveau Bimini?" Kadath, no. 66, p. 6, Winter 1987.)



Comment.

The name, Kadath, incidentally comes from the writings of H.P. Lovecraft, a mostly
forgotten, highly imaginative American writer. Kadath was Lovecrafts' great city of the
ancients.

Reference. Ancient Man, mentioned above, is described here."


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: Bianca on January 16, 2009, 08:38:25 pm
(http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf058/p058-02.gif)


Alignments of blocks in 22 meteres of water off Lanzarote.
(Left) Front view showing stepped arrangement.



From Science Frontiers #58, JUL-AUG 1988. © 1988-2000 William R. Corliss


http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf058/sf058a02.htm




RETRIEVED FROM


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,3238.720.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:07:27 pm
Thanks for the additions, Bianca, especially the illustrations!  Not easy finding pictures of underwater ruins in the bottom of the Atlantic.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:19:42 pm
Pirámides de Güímar, S.A.U.
C/Chacona, s/n – 38500 Güímar – Tenerife
< Canary Islands – Spain
The Beginning

The existence of the Güímar step pyramids first came to wide public notice when an article was printed in a local newspaper in the early 1990’s.
The information reached the Norwegian anthropologist, Thor Heyerdahl, who is internationally renowned for his transoceanic voyages using vessels of prehistoric design and for his theories concerning human migrations.
Heyerdahl, who dedicated much of his life to researching the cultural origins of ancient civilisations throughout the world, carefully studied photographs of the Güímar Pyramids, and put forward the hypothesis that they had been built in accordance with the same architectural principles as those of both the Old and the New World. The similarity of the pyramids in Güímar to those in Sicily, Mexico, Mesopotamia, Polinesia and Peru induced Heyerdahl to come to Tenerife to study the structures at the site itself.

Various theories exist as to the origin and age of the pyramids. Prior to the arrival of Heyerdahl in Tenerife, two alternative theories were disputed. Some researchers maintained that they were mere heaps of stone left by farmers clearing the land for cultivation, while others claimed that these structures were related to esoteric beliefs. After Thor Heyerdahl´s investigations, some professional archaeologists began to relate the existence of the pyramids to pre-Hispanic civilisations on the island.
In 1991, the Archaeology Department of La Laguna University carried out the first excavations and the Canary Islands’ Astrophysical Institute looked into possible ancient astronomical relationships. These studies revealed that the pyramids were aligned to the winter and summer solstices.
The land on which the Pyramids stand had been earmarked for development in connection with a planned expansion in the upper part of the town, jeopardising the survival of the structures.
Thor Heyerdahl’s interest became a personal commitment when the site of the pyramids was purchased by the Fred. Olsen shipping company in order to protect the structures and create what is today the “Pirámides de Güímar” Ethnographic Park.

A Voyage Through Cultures
CUEVA CHACONA
Excavations were carried out in 1997-98 beneath Pyramid 1 by a team of American and Canarian archaeologists, leading to the discovery of an eight-metre long cave containing remains dating from the times of the Guanches, the pre- Hispanic inhabitants of the island (goat and fish bones, bodkins, earthenware fragments, stone objects and decorative beads from a necklace). The organic remains were dated using the Carbon-14 method by the Beta Laboratory in Miami. The final report concluded that the cave dated from a period between 680 and 1020 AD
http://www.abouttenerife.com/tenerife/pyramids.asp


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:21:04 pm
Far from being piles of unworked rubble, every stone was turned with its flat side out and placed together by stone masons.
With slopes of the volcano Mt. Teide at their back and facing the Atlantic, the edifices are precisely aligned according to the sunset on the summer solstice, as are other sacred structures in different parts of the world.

Carefully built stairways on the west side of each pyramid lead up to the summit, which is not a pile of stones, but a perfectly flat platform covered with gravel, as though for ceremonial performances and/or sun worship.

The stones were not weather-worn, rounded boulders, such as farmers had found in the fields, but sharp fragments of lava, and some of the corner stones had been trimmed.

Archaeologists from the University of La Laguna were contracted to do test excavations of a ceremonial platform between two of the pyramids. As predicted by Dr. Heyerdahl, they found that rather than being a random pile of stones as they had expected, it was built of blocks, gravel and earth.

Skeptics had to admit that this was definitely some kind of ceremonial architecture. Yet some still refused to admit that such impressive structures could have been built by the Guanche, the original inhabitants of Tenerife, and suggested that they might have been constructed by the early Christian conquistadores as a time measuring device to know when to celebrate the Catholic festivities of St. John.

The Canary Islands are a popular solution to the location of Atlantis, based on their location west of the Mediterranean, and their mountainous terrain - they are part of a volcanic archipelago with marine trenches as deep as 3,000 metres and mountains as high as 3,718 meters above sea level.

Archaeological findings suggest that the original inhabitants were Berbers who arrived from north Africa around 200 B.C. However, some early navigators reported the Canarians as being a race of tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed people, perhaps suggesting northern European or Atlantean origins.   
http://www.crystalinks.com/pyramidspain.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:22:14 pm
Boreas
   
posted 02-12-2005 10:09 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Last two books of the late Dr. Thor Heyerdahl explained the connection between the different climatical wind-patterns of the North and Mid-Atlantic. These are apparently well known to all sailors of the Atlantic. Two times a year the winds tend to blow from Greenland, straigth south - bringing sailors from Ireland to Gibraltar, - or The Azores and The Canary Islands. Because of the plausibility of some old connection he had to admit that the cultural traces and etnical similarity (Between artics and Guanches) pointed a stronger relationship between the Cultural Guanches of Tenerife (and Azores) - and the well-known North-Atlantean ship-culture.
Since the evidents became to overwhelming Dr. Heyerdahl had to admit (sic!) that the connections to the Viking-ship-culture (of England, Denmark, Norway) actually had been present on the Canary Islands.

To a Norwegian historian that was very "strange", - i.e. contradictory to the the traditional comprehension of the Norse, - as a provincial tribe with basicly local connections.

I am happy to hear that the last excavations are - once and for all - proving that the Guanches really were a higher, atlantic culture, - just as Mr. Heyerdahl proclaimed already in 1991, as he got the first excavation organized. At the professors laugther...

Since he was not only ythe first, but also the only (authoritative historian) to recognize the first pyramidal structures of Guimar, as something different than "shamble and occasional structures".

Moreover, - he took the local LEGENDS somewhat seriously. Which made his project of excavations even more suspect to the academical bi-siders.

Today it is finally proved that the entire Island of Tenerife was provided with constructions, - makingt the island into a giga-monument - where the core of the Island, the alpin mountain-top, Mt. "Teide", becomes the midpoint of a imaginative sun-wheel-construction. As unit ("universe") viewable from the sea, as you sail around the Island...

Thereby I think we can bury the debate Heyerdahl stirred by his excavation; wheter the Guanches were a highly cultivated people or not. Somehow, Spanish historians did not really want to undertake the real investigation of that question. Thus many tried to ridicule Senor Kon-Tiki to avoid his further investments. In vain, - off course.


Today it is finally proven that The Guanches - finally extincted at the end of the 15th century, - was the last southern survivors of an ancient high-culture that once sailed the Oceans.

Not only did they bring astronomical, navigational, technical and architectural knowledge, - but they excirsed very advanced skills of masonry. The restored pyramids and monuments actually tells of a culture that bore exstensive knowledge of the world, - as their as-tro-logical monuments show a completed, precise and counscious perspective of the Universe.

May the Rigthous Grace fall upon our memories of Thor the Kon-Ti-Ki.
Guanco Salutè!


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 02-12-2005).]
 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:22:43 pm
Ulf Richter

posted 02-12-2005 01:20 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boreas,
I am sure that Thor Heyerdahl´s theories will be more and more recognized also by conventional scientists. It is quite obvious that sea traffic is not only in our times, but was also in ancient times - in the so called Stone Age - much more efficient and common than land traffic.

 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:23:26 pm
George Erikson

posted 02-12-2005 10:40 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boreas, Ulf
I just posted this message to another AR thread. But it belongs here as well. Navigators seemed to have carried the spiral symbol of eternity with them everywhere, including the place that I believe to be the logical link between the Atlantic and the Pacific:

I have encountered spirals of the nature described on Ometepe Island in Lake Nicaragua. (See p. 365 of Atlantis In America: Navigators of the Ancient World). The referenced petroglyph is carved in a large stone about half-way up the slope of the southern of the two large volcanos that form Ometepe Island. On this volcano there have been many "Atlantean" figures excavated (p.363) and the curator of the Ometepe Museum has told me that the statues were found under the ground at a stratigraphic level corresponding to 12,000 YBP.
Lake Nicaragua is an interesting link between the Caribbean and the Pacific. The navigable San Juan river connects it to the Atlantic side while only 12 miles of plain and a few low hills separate it from the Pacific. This site would have been the "Panama Canal" if the Nicaraguans would have consented. The did not at that time, nor would they later consent to a joint exploration with Ivar Zapp and myself.
If Plato's "Island-Continent" with a navigational center has any veracity this would be the leading contender. Ometepe Island is situated at the center of a vast continent (the Americas) yet resembles an island in that a navigator would pass from the Caribbean-Atlantic to a very different body of water, the Pacific, in a very short portage. The height and separation of the waves reaching shore from the Pacific is what sets it apart from all other bodies of water- a feature navigators would not miss. It is what Plato described as "true Ocean". Interestingly, Lake Nicaragua is the home of the only large (12-foot) freshwater sharks, freshwater Marlin, and over 100 other species of sea-life normally only found in the oceans. www.AtlantisInAmerica.com

[This message has been edited by George Erikson (edited 02-13-2005).]

 
 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:24:59 pm
Petroglyph Gallery
Photos from the 1995-98 Field Seasons, Ometepe Island, Nicaragua.

(http://culturelink.info/petro/graphics/petro2.jpg)

This sort of stylized turtle is a common motif for petroglyphs near El Corozal Viejo.
 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:25:50 pm
(http://culturelink.info/petro/graphics/bowl.jpg) (http://culturelink.info/petro/graphics/gouge.jpg)

These two petroglyphs show some interesting carving, quite unusual in this area.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:26:34 pm
(http://culturelink.info/petro/graphics/Spiral.jpg) (http://culturelink.info/petro/graphics/pvideo.jpg)

Ometepe is the land of spirals. Many of the petroglyphs are of the meandering type seen on the right.

The petroglyph on the left shows signs of being chalked. Chalking accelerates the amount of environmental degradation a petroglyph might suffer, and hampers dating techniques as well. Visitors to the petroglyphs are advised not to chalk or scratch the grooves of a petroglyph.

"Enhancing" a petroglyph by means other than altering the light that falls on the surface of a boulder (or by the use of special development techniques for a photographic negative or the use of software enhancement of the scanned image) is usually detrimental to the work. See our Photographic Techniques page for more.
 
 http://culturelink.info/petro/gallery98.htm



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:27:07 pm
dhill757

posted 02-14-2005 09:21 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boreas,
I didn't even know that Thor Heyerdahl had passed on until you posted that. 04/14/04, from cancer, at the age of 87. Ocean exploration has lost a great man. Also, if he hadn't attracted investment to the pyramids of the Canary Islands, they would probably be in rubble right now. I have to admit that I have been bummed out since I heard that. He was (and is) truly one of my heroes.


 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:27:58 pm
Tristan de Cunha, South Atlantic Ocean
Location: 37.09S, 12.28W
Elevation: 2559 ft. (780 m)
Last Updated: September 27, 2004


Tristan de Cunha is a stratovolcano that forms an island located in the
south-central Atlantic Ocean. The volcano has a 300-m-wide summit crater
and is composed pyroclastic deposits upon a base of low-angle lava
flows. Numerous parasitic cinder cones are also found on the flanks of
the volcano. The only historical eruption of the volcano occurred in
1961. This eruption took place along the north shore and forced the
evacuation of the island's inhabitants.
Last known significant activity: 1962
------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 Reports
------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 03, 2004

According to a news report, a swarm of earthquakes occurred beneath
Tristan da Cunha during the nights of 28 and 29 July. A scientist
monitoring seismic activity from the Preparatory Commission for the
Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty Organization, Vienna International
Centre indicated that the main swarm lasted ~8 hours and occurred ~30 km
below the volcano. After the swarm, there were a few individual
earthquakes and then activity tapered off.

This information was summarized from the GVP/USGS Tristan de Cunha
Weekly Volcanic Activity Report
------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/new/tristan.html



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:28:53 pm
Volcanic Eruption Could Unleash Giant Tsunamis on U.S.
The Scotsman | December 28, 2004
By John-Paul Ford Rojas

The threat from a collapsing mountain in the Atlantic Ocean could
unleash deadly tidal waves on a similar scale to the Asian tsunami, a
scientist warned today.

Hundreds of millions of people could die in a disaster affecting Britain
and the eastern United States.

Professor Bill McGuire called for an early warning system to be
installed to counter the potential danger.

Researchers have discovered that a chunk of volcano in the Canary
Islands the size of the Isle of Man is on the brink of falling into the
sea.

Scientists believe it could break away when the Cumbre Vieja volcano in
La Palma next erupts.

If that happened a giant tsunami, or massive wave, reaching heights of
more than 500 feet would be sent racing across the Atlantic at the speed
of a passenger jet.

Around nine hours later it would hit the Caribbean islands and the east
coasts of Canada and the US.

After travelling 4,000 miles the wave would be lower and wider but still
around 20 metres ? 50 metres (66ft ? 164ft) high.

Stretching for many miles, it would home in on estuaries and harbours
and sweep up to 20 miles inland, destroying everything in its path.

Boston, New York, Washington DC and Miami would be virtually wiped off
the map and tens of millions of people killed.

Meanwhile the size of the waves reaching Britain would be half as high
as those hitting America but this would still be on the same scale as
those seen in the disaster in the Indian Ocean.

Prof McGuire, director of the Benfield Hazard Research Centre at
University College London, said monitoring might at best give two weeks
warning.

But although the danger had been known about since the 1990s, no-one was
keeping a proper watch on the mountain.

He said that a chunk of the mountain had been teetering on the brink of
collapse since the last volcanic eruption of Cumbre Vieja in 1949.

Prof McGuire said: “We expect during a future eruption that whole mass
to collapse into the North Atlantic.

“You are dealing with a similar situation to the Indian Ocean only on a
much more devastating scale.”

The areas affected would include the entire North Atlantic rim including
north west Africa and southern Europe.

Prof McGuire said it was “certain” this would happen at some stage
although whether the next eruption would be the one to cause the
collapse was not known.

The next eruption could be between 20 and 200 years away.

He said the problem had been known about since the Spanish government
funded a study in the 1990s but authorities had then chosen to ignore
it.

Radar satellite image technology was now needed to find out how much the
unstable mass has been moving.

He added: “It is an issue people are aware of but hopefully the Indian
Ocean business will focus people’s minds a bit more.”

There was no warning system for tsunamis in the Atlantic and although
the ocean was only affected by 2% of those in the world, their impact
could be devastating.

Earthquakes such as one that hit Lisbon in 1755 could also trigger the
giant waves, as they have done in the recent disaster.

The 18th century tremor produced massive waves that caused thousands of
deaths and affected people as far away as the Caribbean.

“My point of view is not that everybody should be worrying about this
but if you know that these things are going to happen you either sit
back and just wait for it to happen or you do something about it,” Prof
McGuire said.


http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/tsunami_volcanic_eruption_us_tsunami.htm



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:32:38 pm
Atlantic Ocean
Atlantic Ocean, the second largest of the earth's four oceans and the most heavily traveled. Only the Pacific Ocean is larger. It covers about twice the area of the Atlantic Ocean. The Atlantic is divided into two nominal sections: The part north of the equator is called the North Atlantic; the part south of the equator, the South Atlantic. The ocean's name is derived from Atlas, one of the Titans of Greek mythology.
Boundaries and Size
The Atlantic Ocean is essentially an S-shaped north-south channel, extending from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Antarctic continent in the south and situated between the eastern coast of the American continents and the western coasts of Europe and Africa. The Atlantic Ocean proper has a surface area of about 82 million sq km (about 31,660,000 sq mi). Including its marginal seas-the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean Sea, the Arctic Ocean, and the North, Baltic, Mediterranean, and Black seas-the total area is about 106,190,000 sq km (about 41 million sq mi).
The boundary between the North Atlantic and the Arctic Ocean is arbitrarily designated as lying along a system of submarine ridges that extend between the land masses of Baffin Island, Greenland, and Scotland. More clearly defined is the boundary with the Mediterranean Sea at the Strait of Gibraltar and with the Caribbean Sea along the arc of the Antilles. The South Atlantic is arbitrarily separated from the Indian Ocean on the east by the 20° east meridian and from the Pacific on the west along the line of shallowest depth between Cape Horn and the Antarctic Peninsula.
Geologic Formation and Structural Features
The Atlantic began to form during the Jurassic period, about 150 million years ago, when a rift opened up in the supercontinent of Gondwanaland, resulting in the separation of South America and Africa. The separation continues today at the rate of several centimeters a year along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Part of the midoceanic ridge system that girdles the world, it is a submarine ridge extending north to south in a sinuous path midway between the continents. Roughly 1500 km (about 930 mi) wide, the ridge has a more rugged topography than any mountain range on land, and is a frequent site of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes. The ridge ranges from about 1 to 3 km (about 0.6 to 2 mi) above the ocean bottom.
Along the American, Antarctic, African, and European coasts are the continental shelves-embankments of the debris washed from the continents. Submarine ridges and rises extend roughly east-west between the continental shelves and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, dividing the eastern and western ocean floors into a series of basins, also known as abyssal plains. The three basins on the American side of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge are more than 5000 m (more than 16,400 ft) deep: the North American Basin, the Brazil Basin, and the Argentina Basin. The Eurafrican side is marked by several basins that are smaller but just as deep: the Iberia, Canaries, Cape Verde, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Angola, Cape, and Agulhas basins. The large Atlantic-Antarctic Basin lies between the southernmost extension of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and the Antarctic continent.
The Atlantic Ocean has an average depth of 3926 m (12,881 ft). At its deepest point, in the Puerto Rico Trench, the bottom is 8742 m (28,681 ft) below the surface.
Islands
The largest islands of the Atlantic Ocean lie on the continental shelves. Newfoundland is the principal island on the North American shelf; the British Isles are the major island group of the Eurafrican shelf. Other continental islands include the Falkland Islands, the only major group on the South American shelf, and the South Sandwich Islands on the Antarctic shelf.
Oceanic islands, usually of volcanic origin, are less common in the Atlantic Ocean than in the Pacific. Among these are the island arc of the Antilles (including Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, Jamaica, and Cuba). In the eastern Atlantic, the Madeiras, Canaries, Cape Verde, and the São Tomé-Príncipe group are the peaks of submarine ridges. The Azores, Saint Paul's Rocks, Ascension, and the Tristan da Cunha group are isolated peaks of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge system; the large island of Iceland is also the result of volcanic action at the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Bermuda rises from the floor of the North American Basin, and Saint Helena from the Angola Basin.
Currents
The circulatory system of the surface waters of the Atlantic can be depicted as two large gyres, or circular current systems, one in the North Atlantic and one in the South Atlantic. These currents are primarily wind driven, but are also affected by the rotation of the earth. The currents of the North Atlantic, which include the North Equatorial Current, the Canaries Current, and the Gulf Stream, flow in a clockwise direction. The currents in the South Atlantic, among which are the Brazil, Benguela, and South Equatorial currents, travel in a counterclockwise direction. Each gyre extends from near the equator to about latitude 45°; closer to the poles are the less completely defined counterrotating gyres, one rotating counterclockwise in the Arctic regions of the North Atlantic and one rotating clockwise near Antarctica in the South Atlantic. See Ocean and Oceanography: Ocean Currents.
The Atlantic receives the waters of many of the principal rivers of the world, among them the Saint Lawrence, Mississippi, Orinoco, Amazon, Paraná, Congo, Niger, and Loire, and the rivers emptying into the North, Baltic, and Mediterranean seas. Nevertheless, primarily because of the high salinity of outflow from the Mediterranean, the Atlantic is slightly more saline than the Pacific or Indian oceans.
Temperatures
The Atlantic Ocean may be described as a bed of water colder than 9° C (48° F)-the cold-water sphere-within which lies a bubble of water warmer than 9° C-the warm-water sphere. The warm-water sphere extends between latitude 50° north and latitude 50° south and has an average thickness of about 600 m (about 2000 ft). The most active circulation is found in the uppermost layer of warm water. Below this, circulation becomes increasingly sluggish as the temperature decreases.
Surface temperatures range from 0° C (32° F), found year-round at the Arctic and Antarctic margins, to 27° C (81° F) in the broad belt at the equator. At depths below 2000 m (about 6600 ft), temperatures of 2° C (36° F) are prevalent; in bottom waters, below 4000 m (about 13,200 ft), temperatures of -1° C (30° F) are common.
Marine Resources
A remarkable example of plant life is found in the Sargasso Sea, the oval section of the North Atlantic lying between the West Indies and the Azores and bounded on the west and north by the Gulf Stream. Here extensive patches of brown gulfweed (Sargassum) are found on the relatively still surface waters.
Actively mined mineral resources in the Atlantic include titanium, zircon, and monazite (phosphates of the cerium metals), off the eastern coast of Florida, and tin and iron ore, off the equatorial coast of Africa. The continental shelves and slopes of the Atlantic are potentially very rich in fossil fuels. Large amounts of petroleum are already being extracted in the North Sea and in the Caribbean Sea-Gulf of Mexico region; lesser amounts are extracted off the coast of Africa in the Gulf of Guinea.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/GeogHist/histories/history/hiscountries/A/atlanticocean.html


[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 02-16-2005).]



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:56:47 pm
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=6


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 29, 2009, 11:59:19 pm
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/volcanoes/region18/18_map.png)

Large red triangles show volcanoes with known or inferred Holocene eruptions; small red triangles mark volcanoes with possible, but uncertain Holocene eruptions or Pleistocene volcanoes with major thermal activity. Yellow triangles distinguish volcanoes of other regions.
http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=18


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:00:31 am
Volcanology Highlights

Known eruptions from this large region total 117—only Antarctica has less—but its historical record is relatively long. The largest island group, the Canaries, is reached by favorable winds from Europe and was an important base for early voyages to the new world. In fact, Christopher Columbus recorded a 1492 eruption on Tenerife, just seven weeks before that same logbook carried documentation of a more historic observation. The Azores were also well placed for sailors because of the predominant westerly winds used for return routes to Europe.

The Canaries were mentioned by Pliny around 40 BC, and were often rediscovered in the following centuries. They were claimed by Portugal in 1341, the year of the region's first historical eruption (a somewhat questionable report of activity somewhere on Tenerife), but were awarded to Spain by the Pope 3 years later. They were settled in 1402 and conquest of the indigenous Guanches population was complete by 1496. The Canaries now have the largest population (1.6 million) in the region and, as part of Spain, claim Pico de Teide as that nation's highest point.

A discovery date for the Azores is uncertain, but they appear on a map from 1351 AD. The Portuguese visited in 1427-31 and colonization began in 1445, a year after the first historical eruption. The nine islands now support about 250,000 people, half of them on the island of Sao Miguel.

The Cape Verde islands were discovered by Portugal in 1456 and settled 6 years later. An eruption beginning in 1500 appears to have continued for about 260 years, with behavior similar to that of Italy's Stromboli. Independence from Portugal came in 1975.

Tristan de Cunha was discovered by the Portuguese in 1506 and the islands were much visited by whalers and sealers. They were first inhabited by St. Helenans in the 19th century and annexed by Britain in 1816. The residents were evacuated during the 1961 eruption, but most elected to return within two years and the 1970 population was estimated at 280.

Aside from submarine activity (most of it uncertain) the only other dated eruption in the region is from Norway's Bouvet Island, the most remote in the world. It was discovered in 1739, but its only known eruption was 2,000 years ago (by magnetic dating).

Volcanism in the region is largely caused by hotspots in oceanic crust, and the region has the highest proportion of fissure vent volcanoes (as primary features). Several known volcanoes lie along or near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge that separates the Eurasian and African plates from the North and South American plates, but the Canaries and Cape Verdes lie just west of the African continental margin.


http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=18&rpage=highlights


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:01:16 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/110070.jpg)

Flores

The northern half of the 10 x 15 km wide island of Flores, which lies west of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, appears at the margin of this NASA Space Shuttle image. Ponta Delgada lies at the northern tip of the island at the lower left. Several craters seen to the left of the cloud banks at the lower right were formed during eruptions about 2900 years ago that also produced a lava flow that forms the Faja Grande Peninsula below the craters.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS007-E-11252, 2003 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).


Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-001
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Radiocarbon
Last Known Eruption: 950 BC ± 100 years 
Summit Elevation: 914 m 2,999 feet
Latitude: 39.462°N  39°27'44"N
Longitude: 31.216°W 31°12'58"W
Flores Island and Corvo Island to its north are located far west of the rest of the Azores islands and are the only two Azorean volcanoes lying west of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. The 10 x 15 km island of Flores is dotted by numerous pyroclastic cones and craters. Several young phreatomagmatic craters and associated lava flows were erupted during the Holocene, including two about 3000 years ago. The Caldeira Funda de Lajes tuff ring formed about 3150 years ago, accompanied by a lava flow that traveled to the SE, reaching the coast at Lajes. The Caldeira Comprida tuff ring in Caldeira Seca, west-central Flores, erupted about 2900 years ago. It produced a lava flow that traveled NW-ward and reached the coast at Faja Grande. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:01:53 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/110071.jpg)

 Corvo


A 2-km-wide caldera containing several small cinder cones and two shallow lakes is the most prominent feature in this NASA Space Shuttle image with north to the left. Two pyroclastic cones erupted along a N-S-trending fissure outside the caldera fed lava flows that formed a platform that underlies the peninsula at the southern end of the island. The 3.5 x 6 km island of Corvo and its neighbor to the south, Flores (far right), are the only two Azorean volcanoes located west of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS007-E-11252, 2003 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).
 Corvo

 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-002
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Holocene
Last Known Eruption: Unknown
Summit Elevation: 718 m 2,356 feet
Latitude: 39.699°N  39°41'56"N
Longitude: 31.111°W 31°6'39"W
The small 3.5 x 6 km island of Corvo is located at the NW end of the Azores archipelago. Corvo and its neighbor to the south, Flores, are the only two Azorean volcanoes located west of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. A 2-km-wide caldera centered on the north side of the island is the most prominent feature of Corvo. The caldera floor contains several small cinder cones and two shallow lakes. Two southward-breached pyroclastic cones erupted along a N-S-trending fissure and fed lava flows that formed a platform that underlies the village of Corvo at the southern end of the island. The youngest eruption on Corvo produced a fissure-fed lava flow that reached the sea near Punta Negra. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:02:31 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/061004.jpg)

   
 Fayal

 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-01=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1958   
Summit Elevation: 1043 m 3,422 feet
Latitude: 38.60°N  38°36'0"N
Longitude: 28.73°W 28°44'0"W
The island of Fayal, also spelled Faial, is the nearest of the central Azorean islands to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. The island is composed of a complex large andesitic-to-trachytic stratovolcano that contains a 2-km-wide summit caldera. Thick deposits of trachytic airfall pumice, pyroclastic flows, and lahars related to formation of the caldera blanket the island. Formation of the steep-walled 500-m-deep caldera was followed by construction of fissure-fed basaltic lava fields and small volcanoes that form a peninsula extending to the west. This area is covered by the youngest volcanic products on the island and has been the source of all historical eruptions. A dramatic submarine eruption at Capelinhos during 1957-58, the best-studied of historical eruptions in the Azores, created a new island that soon merged with the western peninsula. 


Fayal volcano is capped by a 2-km-wide, 500-m-deep summit caldera, seen from its southern rim. A small pyroclastic cone was constructed on the floor of the caldera. Thick airfall-pumice and pyroclastic-flow deposits related to formation of the caldera blanket the island. This event was followed by construction of fissure-fed lava fields and small volcanoes that formed a peninsula extending to the west. A dramatic submarine eruption at Capelinhos during 1957-58 created a new island that soon merged with the western peninsula.

Photo by Rick Wunderman, 1997 (Smithsonian Institution).



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:03:04 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/061002.jpg)

   
Pico stratovolcano occupying the eastern end of Pico Island rises across a strait SE of neighboring Fayal Island (foreground). Pico is superimposed on an older linear volcano with numerous flank cones that forms most of the eastern side of the 48-km-long island. The conical Pico volcano is capped by a 500-m-wide summit crater that is overtopped by a small steep-sided cone visible at the left side of the summit. Historical eruptions have been restricted to the flanks of Pico volcano itself and to the SE-trending rift zone.

Photo by Rick Wunderman, 1997 (Smithsonian Institution).



 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-02=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1720   
Summit Elevation: 2351 m 7,713 feet
Latitude: 38.47°N  38°28'0"N
Longitude: 28.40°W 28°24'0"W
A prominent 2351-m-high stratovolcano occupying the eastern end of Pico Island is the highest volcano in the Azores. Pico is superimposed on an older linear volcano with numerous flank cones that forms most of the 48-km-long island. The conical, dominantly basaltic Pico volcano is capped by a 500-m-wide summit crater that is overtopped by a small steep-sided cone. Historical eruptions have been restricted to the flanks of Pico volcano and to the SE-trending rift zone, which is dotted by pyroclastic cones. An eruption during 1562-64 from the SE rift zone produced lava flows that reached the northern coast. An eruption from a nearby vent issued lava flows that traveled into the sea on the southern side of the island. A flank eruption from Pico in 1718 fed lava flows that reached both coasts.



http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=1802


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:03:32 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/104045.jpg)

San Jorge

A Space Shuttle image with north to the upper left shows the remarkably linear island of San Jorge (Sao Jorge), which is 54 km long and only 5 km wide. The NW-SE-trending island was formed by fissure-fed eruptions. Historical eruptions in 1580 AD originated from three locations above and to the east of the coastal town of Velas, the small light-colored area along the SW coast (bottom left side), producing lava flows that reached the sea. Submarine eruptions were reported on several occasions from vents off the southern and SW coasts.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS004-E-10891, 2002 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).


 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-03=
Volcano Type: Fissure vent
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1907   
Summit Elevation: 1053 m 3,455 feet
Latitude: 38.65°N  38°39'0"N
Longitude: 28.08°W 28°5'0"W
The remarkably linear island of San Jorge (Sao Jorge) is 54 km long and only 5 km wide. It was formed by fissure-fed eruptions beginning in the eastern part of the island. The western two-thirds of dominantly basaltic San Jorge contains youthful, fissure-fed lava flows resembling those on neighboring Pico Island. Subaerial lava flows issued from three locations above the south-central coast during 1580, producing lava flows that reached the sea. In 1808 a series of explosions took place from vents along the south-central crest of the island; one of these fed a lava flow that also reached the southern coast. Submarine eruptions were reported on several occasions from vents off the southern and SW coasts. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:03:54 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/110072.jpg)

   Graciosa 

The small 4 x 8 km island of Graciosa is seen in this NASA Space Shuttle image with north to the upper left. Cloud banks partially obscure the SE end of the island, which contains a small 0.9 x 1.6 km caldera with active fumaroles. Scoria cones are found over much of the island, and several widely spaced NE-SW-trending fissures fed a youthful lava field that forms the NW end of the island.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS004-E-10893, 2002 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).


 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-04=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Holocene
Last Known Eruption: Unknown
Summit Elevation: 402 m 1,319 feet
Latitude: 39.02°N  39°1'0"N
Longitude: 27.97°W 27°58'0"W
The SE end of Graciosa, the northernmost of the central Azorean islands, contains a small 0.9 x 1.6 km caldera with active fumaroles. The 402-m-high SE caldera rim is the high point of the small 4 x 8 km island. The caldera has been the source of eruptions producing significant tephra falls, pyroclastic flows, lahars, and lava flows. An important fumarole field is located in a volcanic cave inside the caldera, and a submarine fumarole occurs off the NW coast of Graciosa. Scoria cones erupted along several widely spaced NE-SW-trending fissures fed a youthful lava field that forms the NW end of the island. The most recent eruption from Pico Tomao, NW of the caldera, produced a lava flow that reached the eastern coast NW of the village of Praia. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:04:19 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/104056.jpg)

   Terceira 



Terceira Island, seen here from the Space Shuttle, contains four stratovolcanoes constructed along a prominent ESE-WNW-trending fissure zone cutting across the island. The summit caldera of Santa Barbara, the westernmost volcano (and the only one active during historical time) is the dark-colored area at the left. Cinco Picos caldera can be faintly seen at the center, with the broad Guilherme Moniz caldera at the right. Historical eruptions have taken place from the rift zone and offshore vents.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS004-E-10890, 2002 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).



 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-05=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcanoes
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 2000   
Summit Elevation: 1023 m 3,356 feet
Latitude: 38.73°N  38°44'0"N
Longitude: 27.32°W 27°19'0"W
Terceira Island contains four stratovolcanoes constructed along a prominent ESE-WNW-trending fissure zone that cuts across the island. Historically active Santa Barbara volcano at the western end of the island is truncated by two calderas. The youngest of these formed about 15,000 years ago. Comenditic lava domes fill and surround the caldera. Pico Alto lies north of the fissure zone in the north-central part of the island and contains a Pleistocene caldera largely filled by lava domes and lava flows. Guilherme Moniz caldera lies along the fissure zone immediately to the south, and 7-km-wide Cinquio Picos caldera at the SE end of the island is the largest in the Azores. Historical eruptions have occurred from Pico Alto, the fissure zone between Pico Alto and Santa Barbara, and from submarine vents west of Santa Barbara. Most Holocene eruptions have produced basaltic-to-rhyolitic lava flows from the fissure zone transecting the island.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:04:47 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/111006.jpg)

   Don Joao de Castro Bank

Two unusual-looking flank craters are visible in this side-viewing sonar perspective of the NW flank of Don Joao de Castro Bank in the Azores taken by U.S. Navy submarine NR-1. The two craters are 90 x 45 m wide. The left-hand and younger crater displays a floor consisting of a chilled lava lake with polygonal surface fractures. The right-hand crater is much less distinct because its surface is obscured by tephra deposits. The line at the right is the center track line of the sonar image.

U. S. Navy image courtesy of Rick Wunderman, 2003 (Smithsonian Institution).

Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-07=
Volcano Type: Submarine volcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1720   
Summit Elevation: -14 m - 46 feet
Latitude: 38.23°N  38°14'0"N
Longitude: 26.63°W 26°38'0"W
Don Joao de Castro Bank is a large submarine volcano that rises to within 14 m of the sea surface roughly halfway between Terceira and San Miguel Islands. A submarine eruption during December 1720 produced an ephemeral island that attained a length of 1.5 km and an altitude of about 250 m before it was eroded beneath the sea surface two years later. The volcano (also spelled Dom Joao de Castro) was named after the Portuguese hydrographic survey vessel that surveyed the bank in 1941. Two youthful parasitic craters, one tephra covered and the other sediment free, are located on the NW flank. The submarine volcano has an impressive fumarole field and remains seismically active. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:05:19 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/112087.jpg)

   Sete Cidades


A small peninsula juts into Lagoa Azul ("Blue Lake"), one of two lakes partially filling the summit caldera on Sete Cidades volcano at the western end of Sao Miguel Island. The 5-km-wide caldera was formed about 22,000 years ago, and at least 22 post-caldera eruptions have occurred. This view looks to the NW from the rim of a post-caldera cone, Caldiera Grande. Two other post-caldera cones, Caldiera do Alfreres and Seara Cerrado da Ladeira, lie across the lake, behind and to the right of the town of Sete Cidades.

Photo by R.V. Fisher, 1980 (University of California Santa Barbara).



 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-08=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1880   
Summit Elevation: 856 m 2,808 feet
Latitude: 37.87°N  37°52'0"N
Longitude: 25.78°W 25°47'0"W
Sete Cidades volcano at the western end of Sao Miguel Island contains a 5-km-wide summit caldera, occupied by two caldera lakes, that is one of the scenic highlights of the Azores. The steep-walled, 500-m-deep caldera was formed about 22,000 years ago, and at least 22 post-caldera eruptions have occurred. A large group of Pleistocene post-caldera trachytic lava domes, lava flows, and pyroclastic-flow deposits is found on the western-to-northern flanks. A nearly circular ring of six Holocene pyroclastic cones occupies the caldera floor. These have been the source of a dozen trachytic pumice-fall deposits erupted during the past 5000 years. Sete Cidades is one of the most active Azorean volcanoes. Historical eruptions date back to the 15th century and have occurred from within the caldera and from submarine vents off the west coast. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:05:50 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/101040.jpg)

   Unnamed   

A chain of fissure-fed scoria cones dotting the "waist" of Sao Miguel Island between Sete Cidades and Agua de Pau volcanoes is seen here from the east below the Agua de Pau (Lagoa do Fogo) caldera. The densely populated southern coast of Sao Miguel appears in the background. At least 18 eruptions have occurred during the past 2800 years, although the only historical eruption took place in 1652 from a vent along the axis of the island.

Copyrighted photo by Marco Fulle, 2000 (Stromboli On-Line, http://stromboli.net).



 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-081
Volcano Type: Pyroclastic cones
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1652   
Summit Elevation: 350 m 1,148 feet
Latitude: 37.78°N * 37°47'0"N
Longitude: 25.67°W 25°40'0"W
Nearly 200 scoria cones dot the "waist" of Sao Miguel Island between Sete Cidades and Agua de Pau volcanoes. This monogenetic fissure-controlled, dominantly basaltic volcanism, much of which post-dates the roughly 5000-year-old Fogo eruption, cannot be assigned to either volcano and appears related to en-echelon fissures overlying a fracture zone. Thick pumice deposits thought to originate from the "waist" area may have originated from vents or a caldera destroyed and now buried by young basaltic volcanism. The most noteworthy of the young vents is 485-m-high Serra Gorda, SE of Siete Cidades, and the cone that produced a lava delta south of Agua de Paul village. The majority of the inhabitants of Sao Miguel Island occupy both coasts below this volcanic zone. At least 18 eruptions have occurred during the past 2800 years, although the only historical eruption occurred in 1652. The most recent activity has been basaltic, however two more-explosive trachytic eruptions occurred during the past 1100 years.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:06:26 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/061010.jpg)

   Agua de Pau  


Lagoa do Fogo lake, seen here from the west, partially fills the younger of two Pleistocene calderas on Agua de Pau stratovolcano in central Sao Miguel Island. Several post-caldera lava domes were emplaced on the northern and western flanks of the volcano, but activity inside the caldera did not resume until the eruption of the 5000-year-old Fogo-A plinian pumice-fall deposit, the product of the largest-known Holocene eruption in the Azores. Numerous cinder cones have erupted on the flanks of Agua de Pau during historical time.

Photo by Rick Wunderman, 1977 (Smithsonian Institution).


 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-09=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1564   
Summit Elevation: 947 m 3,107 feet
Latitude: 37.77°N  37°46'0"N
Longitude: 25.47°W 25°28'0"W
Agua de Pau stratovolcano in central Sao Miguel Island contains an outer 4 x 7 km caldera formed about 30,000 to 45,000 years ago and an inner 2.5 x 3 km caldera that was created about 15,000 years ago. The younger caldera is partially filled by the Lagoa do Fogo caldera lake. Several post-caldera lava domes were emplaced on the northern and western flanks of the volcano, but activity in the caldera did not resume until about 5000 years ago. The 3-cu-km Fogo-A plinian pumice-fall deposit, the product of the largest-known Holocene eruption in the Azores, was emplaced at this time. Numerous flank cinder cones mark radial and concentric fissures, some of which have been active during historical time. The latest trachytic explosive eruption took place during 1563. Prominent hot springs are located on the NW flank.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:07:03 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/062027.jpg)

   Furnas

Furnas volcano, at the eastern end of Sao Miguel Island, contains at least two calderas. The younger 6-km-wide caldera is seen here from its northern rim. At least 11 trachytic pumice layers, all erupted during the past 5000 years, post-date the caldera. A zone of late-Pleistocene to Holocene basaltic-to-trachytic cinder cones and lava domes is located between Furnas and neighboring Agua de Pau volcano. The only historical eruption of Furnas volcano, during 1630, was one of the largest Holocene eruptions in the Azores.

Photo by Rick Wunderman, 1997 (Smithsonian Institution).



 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-10=
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1630   
Summit Elevation: 805 m 2,641 feet
Latitude: 37.77°N  37°46'0"N
Longitude: 25.32°W 25°19'0"W
Furnas volcano lies at the eastern end of Sao Miguel Island, immediately west of the older Nordeste shield volcano and its Povoaçao caldera. Furnas contains at least two calderas, a younger one that is 6-km wide and a larger older one that is less topographically distinct. The eastern wall of the 500-m-deep caldera of Furnas overlaps the western wall of the Povoaçao caldera of Nordeste volcano. Volcanic activity at Furnas dates back about 100,000 years. At least 11 trachytic pumice layers, all erupted during the past 5000 years, post-date the caldera. The most prominent post-caldera feature is the Pico do Gaspar lava dome, east of the Lagoa das Furnas caldera lake. A zone of late-Pleistocene to Holocene basaltic-to-trachytic cinder cones and lava domes is located between Furnas and Agua de Pau volcanoes. Two historical eruptions have occurred at Furnas, one sometime between 1439 and 1443 and the other in 1630. The latter was one of the largest Holocene explosive eruptions in the Azores and caused significant damage and fatalities.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:07:52 am
   Monaco Bank 

A photograph is not available for this volcano.
 Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-11=
Volcano Type: Submarine volcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1911   
Summit Elevation: -197 m - 646 feet
Latitude: 37.60°N  37°36'0"N
Longitude: 25.88°W 25°53'0"W
Monaco Bank is a submarine volcano constructed along a NW-SE-trending fissure 20-km south of the western tip of Sao Miguel Island. The linear volcano is located along regional tectonic trends connecting Sete Cidades volcano with Santa María Island, SE of Monaco Bank. The summit of the volcano rises to within 197 m of the sea surface. Submarine eruptions took place during 1907, when a submarine cable was ruptured, and 1911.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:09:01 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/117035.jpg)

   Madeira

Funchal, the capital city of Madeira, blankets the SE flanks of the massive shield volcano forming the island. The scenic island, sometimes known as the Pearl of the Atlantic, is the emergent summit of a volcano constructed along an East-West trending rift zone. Following a period of extensive erosion, renewed eruptions produced cinder cones and lava flows that traveled down dissected valleys.

Photo by Paul Bernhardt.



Country: Portugal
Subregion Name: Azores and Madeira
Volcano Number: 1802-12-
Volcano Type: Shield volcano
Volcano Status: Radiocarbon
Last Known Eruption: 4500 BC ± 50 years 
Summit Elevation: 1862 m 6,109 feet
Latitude: 32.73°N  32°44'0"N
Longitude: 16.97°W 16°58'0"W
Madeira Island is the emergent top of a massive shield volcano that rises about 6 km from the floor of the Atlantic Ocean and forms the largest island of the Madeira Archipelago, about 90 km in length. Construction of the volcano along E-W-trending rift zones from the Miocene to about 700,000 years ago was followed by a period of extensive erosion and possible edifice collapse. Two steep-walled amphitheaters open to south in the central part of the island. Late-stage eruptions are scattered throughout the island and lasted until the Holocene, producing scoria cones and intracanyon lava flows mantling rocks of the older eroded edifice. The youngest activity at Madeira lies in the west-central part of the island, and consists of cinder cones in the upper Sao Vicente valley, a series of intracanyon flows, and a tephra layer on top of the Paul da Serra plateau dated at about 6500 years ago.


http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=1802


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:10:31 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/087052.jpg)

La Palma

The northern of two large volcanic centers forming the wedge-shaped island of La Palma, Taburiente, is seen from the southern volcano, Cumbre Vieja. Bejenado volcano (left-center) is located in the large breached caldera of Taburiente volcano (background). Cumbre Nueva Ridge (right) was formed by a large-scale collapse. Cumbre Vieja, the southern volcano, is one of the most active in the Canaries. The elongated volcano is oriented N-S and has been the site of numerous historical eruptions.

Photo by Yasuo Miyabuchi, 1997 (Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute, Kyushu).

 Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-01-
Volcano Type: Stratovolcanoes
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1971   
Summit Elevation: 2426 m 7,959 feet
Latitude: 28.57°N  28°34'0"N
Longitude: 17.83°W 17°50'0"W


The 47-km-long wedge-shaped island of La Palma, the NW-most of the Canary Islands, is composed of two large volcanic centers. The older 2426-m-high northern one is cut by the massive steep-walled Caldera Taburiente, one of several massive collapse scarps produced by edifice failure to the SW. The younger 1949-m-high Cumbre Vieja, the southern volcano, is one of the most active in the Canaries. The elongated volcano dates back to about 125,000 years ago and is oriented N-S. Eruptions during the past 7000 years have originated from the abundant cinder cones and craters along the axis of Cumbre Vieja, producing fissure-fed lava flows that descend steeply to the sea. Historical eruptions at La Palma, recorded since the 15th century, have produced mild explosive activity and lava flows that damaged populated areas. The southern tip of the island is mantled by a broad lava field produced during the 1677-1678 eruption. Lava flows also reached the sea in 1585, 1646, 1712, 1949, and 1971.

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1803-01-


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:11:27 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/087055.jpg)

Hierro

The massive Hierro shield volcano is truncated by a large NW-facing escarpment, seen here from the east, which formed as a result of gravitational collapse of the volcano. The steep-sided 1500-m-high scarp towers above a low lava platform bordering 12-km-wide El Golfo Bay, which is barely visible at the extreme left. Holocene cones and flows are found both on the outer flanks and in the El Golfo depression. The latest eruption, during the 18th century, produced a lava flow from a cinder cone on the NW side of El Golfo.

Photo by Yasuo Miyabuchi, 1997 (Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute, Kyushu).

 
 Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-02-
Volcano Type: Shield volcano
Volcano Status: Radiocarbon
Last Known Eruption: 550 BC ± 75 years 
Summit Elevation: 1500 m 4,921 feet
Latitude: 27.73°N  27°44'0"N
Longitude: 18.03°W 18°2'0"W


The triangular island of Hierro is the SW-most and least studied of the Canary Islands. The massive Hierro shield volcano is truncated by a large NW-facing escarpment formed as a result of gravitational collapse of El Golfo volcano about 130,000 years ago. The steep-sided 1500-m-high scarp towers above a low lava platform bordering 12-km-wide El Golfo Bay, and three other large submarine landslide deposits occur to the SW and SE. Three prominent rifts oriented NW, NE, and south at 120 degree angles form prominent topographic ridges. The subaerial portion of the volcano consists of flat-lying Quaternary basaltic and trachybasaltic lava flows and tuffs capped by numerous young cinder cones and lava flows. Holocene cones and flows are found both on the outer flanks and in the El Golfo depression. Hierro contains the greatest concentration of young vents in the Canary Islands. Uncertainty surrounds the report of an historical eruption in 1793. 



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:11:52 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/088097.jpg)

Tenerife 


Teide volcano, the highest point on the island of Tenerife, towers above the scarp of the massive 600,000-year-old Orotava landslide. The light-colored area on the eastern foot of the volcano is covered by plinian tephra deposits from the Mount Blanca eruption about 2000 years ago. Tiede was constructed within the dramatic 10 x 17 km wide Las Cañadas caldera on the SW side of Tenerife. The large triangular island is composed of a complex of overlapping stratovolcanoes that have remained active into historical time.

Photo by Alexander Belousov (Institute of Volcanology, Kliuchi).



Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-03-
Volcano Type: Stratovolcano
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1909   
Summit Elevation: 3715 m 12,188 feet
Latitude: 28.271°N  28°16'17"N
Longitude: 16.641°W 16°38'27"W

The large triangular island of Tenerife is composed of a complex of overlapping Miocene-to-Quaternary stratovolcanoes that have remained active into historical time. The NE-trending Cordillera Dorsal volcanic massif joins the Las Cañadas volcano on the SW side of Tenerife with older volcanoes, creating the largest volcanic complex of the Canary Islands. Controversy surrounds the formation of the dramatic 10 x 17 km Las Cañadas caldera, which is partially filled by 3715-m-high Teide stratovolcano, the highest peak in the Atlantic Ocean. The origin of the caldera has been considered to be due entirely or in part to either a massive landslide (in a manner similar to the earlier formation of the massive La Orotava and Guimar valleys in the Cordillera Dorsal) or due to major explosive eruptions. The most recent stage of activity beginning in the late Pleistocene included the construction of the Pico Viejo and Teide edifices. Tenerife was perhaps observed in eruption by Christopher Columbus, and several flank vents on the Canary Island's most active volcano have been active during historical time.



Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:12:28 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/088098.jpg)

   Gran Canaria


Marteles Maar in the foreground and several cinder cones in the background are part of a group of Quaternary monogenetic volcanoes in northern Gran Canaria. The largely Miocene-to-Pliocene island in the middle of the Canary archipelago contains three major volcanic structures, which have been modified by caldera collapse, gravitational edifice failure, and extensive erosion. Very young basaltic cones and lava flows of Holocene age are situated within the island and at Las Isletas, a peninsula on the NE coast.

Photo by Alexander Belousov (Institute of Volcanology, Kliuchi).


Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-04-
Volcano Type: Fissure vents
Volcano Status: Radiocarbon
Last Known Eruption: 20 BC ± 75 years 
Summit Elevation: 1950 m 6,398 feet
Latitude: 28.00°N  28°0'0"N
Longitude: 15.58°W 15°35'0"W

The largely Miocene-to-Pliocene island of Gran Canaria in the middle of the Canary archipelago has been strongly eroded into steep-walled radial gorges called barrancos. Three major volcanic structures form the circular 60-km-wide island, which has been modified by caldera collapse, gravitational edifice failure, and extensive erosion. Middle Quaternary scoria cones and lava flows are found in the northern and eastern parts of the massive shield volcano, which is cut by a major NW-SE-trending rift zone that extends across the island and fed flows primarily to the NE. Very young basaltic cones and lava flows of Holocene age are situated within a NW-trending zone from Berrazales to Bandama and at Las Isletas, a peninsula on the NE coast. One cinder cone was radiocarbon dated at about 3000 years before present, and other cones and flows may be less than 1000 years old.




Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:13:19 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/104016.jpg)

   Fuerteventura

Pleistocene and Holocene cinder cones and lava flows cover large portions of elongated Fuerteventura Island at the SE end of the Canary Islands. As seen in this Space Shuttle image, the youngest lavas form the darker colored areas at the northern tip of the island (including the small Lobos Island opposite the light-colored area on the NE tip of Fuerteventura) as well as in the south-central part of the arid island. Linear weather clouds extend from the SW tip of the island. No historical eruptions have occurred on Fuerteventura.

NASA Space Shuttle image ISS002-732-26, 2001 (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/).




 Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-05-
Volcano Type: Fissure vents
Volcano Status: Holocene
Last Known Eruption: Unknown
Summit Elevation: 529 m 1,736 feet
Latitude: 28.358°N  28°21'30"N
Longitude: 14.02°W 14°1'0"W

Pleistocene and Holocene cinder cones and lava flows cover large portions of elongated Fuerteventura Island at the SE end of the Canary Islands. The youngest lavas are found at the northern and central portions of the arid, sparsely vegetated island. Malpais de la Arena, the Northern Malpais, and the Lobos Island areas at the northern tip of Fuerteventura are the sites of broad fields of youthful cinder cones and lava flows. The Malpais Chico, Malpais Grande, and Malpais de Jacomar areas on the south-central part of the island represent smaller zones of youthful volcanism, as do the volcanoes of Pajara, which were constructed on the older plutonic massif west of the axis of the island. No historical eruptions have occurred on Fuerteventura. 


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:14:02 am
(http://www.volcano.si.edu/images/full/087038.jpg)

   Lanzarote


Circular Caldera del Corazoncillo (center), also known as Caldera de Fuencaliente, was active during a two-week period in September 1730, at the beginning of the 1730-36 Montañas del Fuego eruption on Lanzarote. The lava flows were erupted from NE-SW-trending fissures, and most reached the coast along a broad 20-km-wide front on the western side of the island. The 60-km-long island of Lanzarote at the NE end of the Canary Islands contains the largest concentration of youthful volcanism in the Canaries.

Photo by Nicolau Wallenstein (Center of Volcanology, Azores University).



 Country: Spain
Subregion Name: Canary Islands
Volcano Number: 1803-06-
Volcano Type: Fissure vents
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 1824   
Summit Elevation: 670 m 2,198 feet
Latitude: 29.03°N  29°2'0"N
Longitude: 13.63°W 13°38'0"W

The 60-km-long island of Lanzarote at the NE end of the Canary Islands contains the largest concentration of youthful volcanism in the Canaries. Pleistocene-and-Holocene cinder cones and lava flows erupted along NE-SW-trending fissures are found throughout the low-altitude arid island and on smaller islands to the north. The largest historical eruption of the Canary Islands took place during 1730-36, when long-term eruptions from a NE-SW-trending fissure formed the Montañas del Fuego and produced voluminous lava flows that covered about 200 sq km. The lava flows reached the western coast along a broad, 20-km-wide front. The villages of Maretas and Santa Catalina were destroyed, along with the most fertile valleys and estates of the arid island. An eruption during 1824 produced a much smaller lava flow that reached the SW coast.
 

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=1803


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on March 30, 2009, 12:15:57 am
Chapter V: Can Lands Sink and Rise?

(http://atlantis.haktanir.org/krakatau.gif)

I. Destructions

We will deal here with cities, islands, civilizations lost because of calamities.

According to Roman history and tradition, Vesuvius had never erupted before August 79 AD. It only smoked a bit from time to time. The explosion was extremely violent; it covered the city of Pompeii  with ashes and killed 2000 people. Since that time, Vesuvius has had numerous minor eruptions and 18 major ones, the last one in 1944.

In the spring of 1902, Mont Pelee (Martinique)  in the Caribbean erupted and besides wiping out the biggest city of the country, Saint Pierre, it killed 30,000 people. The cone had been dormant for half a century. The only survivor was a prisoner in an underground dungeon.

In 1883, the violent explosion of Krakatao sent bits of pumice and dust up into the air 20 miles. Some of the dust was carried completely around the world by currents in the upper air. The entire mountain disappeared. The eruption cracked walls in Buitenzorg, Java, 100 miles away. The tidal wave that was created engulfed the neighboring shored and killed 36,000 people. The detonation was heard for 3,000 miles.

In the same area, in 1815, the volcano Tomboro on the island of Sumbawa took 12,000 lives.

In October 1822, another earthquake occurred on the island of Java. Lyell, in his Principles of Geology, says "the earth shook, and immense columns of hot water and boiling mud, mixed with burning brimstone, ashes, and lapilli, of the size of nuts, were projected from the mountain like a water-spout, with such prodigious violence that large quantities fell beyond the river Tandoi, which is forty miles distant." Four days later a second volcano eruption occurred accompanied by a violent earthquake and the summit of the mountain broke down. Over 4,000 people were killed and 114 villages destroyed. And this happened back then, when population wasn't as dense as it is now.

In 1912, in Alaska, Katmai erupted and blanketed Kodiak, 100 miles away, under a 10- to 12-inch fall of ash.

These are a couple of examples from modern times.

However, 6500 years ago Mount Mazama erupted and created the Crater Lake, in America. The volcano displaced about 17 cubic miles of rock. The mountain was swallowed  up in its own crater.

Helike and Bora are ancient Greek islands that sank during Plato's time. You will find more information on the legendary city of Helike later on.

According to Pliny, in 186 BC, in the gulf of Santorini, near Greece, the island of Old Kaimeni (the Sacred Island) emerged from the sea. In 19 AD, Thera (the Divine, Santorini), home of the Mynoan civilization appeared. However, parts of this island had sunk around  1,600 BC after a powerful eruption. The volcano sent the rocks swirling in the sky and to the island of Crete. Stones from Santorini are found on Crete. I will debate over this when I mention Santorini as a possible location for Atlantis. Also, in 1573 AD, another island was created and it was called "the small sunburnt island". In 1848, another volcanic convulsion that lasted three months created a great shoal. Since Santorini had emerged, the island went on sinking until, by the end of the 19th century, it had submerged 1200 feet.

 

II. Lands that Rise and Sink
Let's start with some easy examples. Within 5,000 years the shores of Sweden, Denmark, and Norway have risen from 200 to 600 feet. The coast or Peru continues to sink. Professor Winchell (The Preadamites) says that in 70 years the Andes sank 220 feet. Also, "the coast of South America lifted up bodily ten or fifteen feet and let down again in an hour".

Most of the information above uses as a source Ignatius Donnelly's book, Atlantis, the Antediluvian World. Other data was gathered from the net, from reliable sources.

In 1783, Iceland was touched by tremendous earthquakes. According to Donnelly, "about a month previous to the eruption on the main-land a submarine volcano burst forth in the sea at a distance of thirty miles from the shore. It ejected so much pumice that the sea was covered with it for a distance of 150 miles, and ships were considerably embedded in their course". An island emerged, and the Danish Majesty claimed it. It was called the "New Island". A year later, the island sank again, at about 30 fathom under water. The earthquake killed 9,000 people out of a population of 50,000.

The most interesting account is that of the Mexican volcano of Paricutin, west of Mexico City. It belongs to the Sierra Madre range. For 15 days before its appearance the earth trembled. In February 1943, a farmer who was plowing his cornfield saw a spiral of steam rising from the ground. Explosions rocked the night and by morning, the volcano had built up a cone of 50 feet. The puffs ejected every six seconds cinders, ash, and bombs of solid rock estimated at 2,700 tons a minute. Within six months the cone had reached 1,000 feet, and in one year it had reached 1,500 feet. For a radius of 20 miles all vegetation was killed and more than 8,000 people had to be evacuated. The volcano ceased to erupt in 1952. Its neighbor, El Jorullo, was born in 1759 and was active for 19 years.

In 1819, the fort and village of Sindree (east side of Indus), was submerged by an earthquake, together with a tract of country 2000 miles in extent.

In 1831, in Sicily, as a result of an earthquake, a whole new island emerged. It was called "Graham's Island". It reached a height of 200 feet and a circumference of three miles, in a month. Soon, however, it sank again.

In 1737, as a result of an earthquake and hurricane in Calcutta, India, 300 000 people died.

In November 1775, Lisbon (Portugal) an earthquake threw down the greater part of the city. In six minutes 60,000 people died. The area where the quay sank was at the end of the 19th century 600 feet deep.

In September 1730, in the Canaries, the earth opened near Year, in Lancerota Island. Several explosions created a hill of ejected matter. Eruptions continued and lava ran over villages and ten days later the lava had reached the sea. Putrid vapors condensed into drops killed the cattle around the country. The storms going on at that time were stronger than anything seen before by the people. The thing has lasted for five years, and the lava covered one-third of the island.

In 1963, a fishing boat off the south coast of Iceland radioed the base to report a cloud of smoke raising from the ocean. An explosion sent rocks flying out of the sea and a black land emerged from the depths. A weak later, the island was 200 feet above sea level and, since eruptions continued, by 1967 was 500 feet high and a mile long. The island was named Surtsey. Nowadays, the land is inhabited by birds and plants.

According to A. Tomas, Atlantis from Legend to Discovery, in 1780 a Spanish explorer, Maurelle found an island in South Pacific. The island was called Falcon. In 1892, the Government of Tonga planted 2000 coconut trees on the island, however, in 1894 the island was gone.

In 1135, in the Caspian Sea, the fortress of Caravan-Sarai rose from the waters, only to sink back again. In 1723, it rose again and it is still there nowadays.

In the Bay of Naples (Mediterranean), the sunk Temple of Jupiter-Serapis, built in 105 BC, rose again in 1742.

In Azores (has 12 volcanoes) a volcano rose suddenly in 1808 in San Jorge, at a height of 3500 feet. It burnt for 6 days and desolated the whole island. In 1811, near San Miguel, another volcano rose creating an island 300 feet high. The place was called Sambrina, but it soon sank again. Other similar eruptions took place in 1691 and 1720.

I will quote now from Donnelly's book, that uses Lyell's Principles of Geology:

"In the Nautical Magazine for 1835 [...], and in Compte Rendus, April, 1838, accounts are given of a series of volcanic phenomena, earthquakes, troubled water, floating scoria, and columns of smoke, which have been observed at intervals since the middle of the last century, in a space of open sea between longitudes 20 degrees and 22 mins W., about half a degree south of the equator. These facts, says Mr. Darwin, seem to show that an island or archipelago is in progress of formation in the middle of Atlantic."




The examples could go on and on, but I think I have made my point. It's not so hard to believe anymore that a continent can sink and rise in a single night, or, if you are still doubting that, in 1 matter of months.

http://atlantis.haktanir.org/ch5.html

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=6


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:16:50 pm
(http://s3.hubimg.com/u/3831018_f496.jpg)

Mt. Pico, the Azores highest mountain rises above the island of the same name. This picture was taken from Faial Island. Picture courtesy Wikipedia.org.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:19:01 pm
(http://s4.hubimg.com/u/3831027_f496.jpg)

Sao Miguel Island's Lagoa das Sete Cidades (Seven Cities) is a lake formed in a volcanic crater. Picture courtesy Wikipedia.org.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:21:20 pm
(http://s4.hubimg.com/u/3831071_f496.jpg)

Terceira Island's largest town, Angra do Herosmo a UNESCO World Heritage Site and longest-running, uninterrupted settlement in the islands. Picture courtesy Wikipedia.org.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:22:09 pm
(http://s3.hubimg.com/u/3831102_f496.jpg)

A hypothetical depiction of Atlantis based on the locations of the Africa-Eurasia tectonic plate boundary, the Azores underwater plateau, and the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Adapted from a map courtesy cia.gov.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:54:53 pm
Atlantic Island Theory

What are the effects a huge island like Atlantis could have on the geography of the Atlantic and on the climate of the northern hemisphere? Since there is no real scientific proof of the existence of Atlantis, one possible way to indicate that Plato’s story is true to some extent, is to find out the effects a huge island like Atlantis could have on the geography of the Atlantic and on the climate of the northern hemisphere. The following picture shows the present way the Gulf Stream runs:


(http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/media/presentgulfstrm.gif)

If we look at the way the Gulf Stream is shaped, caused by northern and southern trade winds, it gets clear that it affects the climate of Northwest Europe a lot: Through the warm water and the humid air masses the climate is much warmer than it would be without the Gulf Stream. The isotherms develop from the way of the Gulf Stream: Because of its course it diverts the ten- and zero degree isotherm to the North, so that the ten degree isotherm is on the same height as Great Britain / Germany and the zero degree isotherm runs above Greenland to the North of Scandinavia. If the Gulf Stream did not exist, the isotherms would have their way nearly parallel to the latitudes which means that the zero degree isotherm would approximately take the way of the present ten degree isotherm. In that cage the climate of Northwest Europe would be much colder.

As research work showed, at the time of Quaternary the oceanographic circumstances at the place of the Gulf Stream’s origin were the same as today and also a northern and a southern trade wind existed. So effects of the Gulf Stream on the climate of Northwest Europe would have been the same, too, and that is the point!!! Warm tropical water rushed along the Brazilian and Middle - North - American coast, and we can be sure that the Gulf Stream also entered into the North - Atlantic ocean, like today. But it did not get into the direction of the European continent, otherwise the freezing of West Europe would not have happened! This might have been caused by a huge obstacle like an island, because after the “Würm Ice Age”, the climate in North - West - Europe radically changed (it became much warmer), which means that the Gulf Stream got to Europe for the first time. The Gulf Stream has a width of 600 - 800 kilometres, so the obstacle had to be, measured crossways to the current, ca. 800 - 1000 km long, otherwise it would not have been able to stop it. An island dimensioned in a way like this cannot disappear without leaving any traces of it. And if you have a look at the cross-section of the Atlantic seafloor it seems like a sunken land with high mountains. Sharp mountain tops loom above the surface of the sea - the Azores.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:55:44 pm
(http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/media/atlanticseaflr.gif)

If we imagined that the sea level would sink around 3000 metres, an enormous land-mass with high mountains and steep slopes would appear. It would be in the way of the Gulf Streams which flowed directly across the Atlantic Ridge. At the west coast of this island its waters became back-ups and in long stretched bow it would stream back to the West. So, Northwest Europe would be exposed to cold, rough climate and in a period of strong freezing tendency, it would led to a full ice again. Exactly this full freezing over occurred during the Quaternary - a proof of the fact that the following figure reconstructs the former real situation of the North - Atlantic!


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:57:24 pm
(http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/media/quaterway.gif)

Why do make people contacts between Atlantis and this part of seafloor in the Atlantic ocean? Well, the question remains, how and when the disappearance of the island happened. The answer is situated in the fact that the sea level did not change, but the ocean bottom, together with the land-mass of the island put in it, descended. So, the only remaining things are today’s well-known Azores. At the end of the Quaternary, and also with the end of the “Würm Ice Age” the climate in Northwest Europe radically changed, caused by the arrival of the Gulf Stream. So we can assume that the island had sunken by that time, otherwise the Gulf Stream wouldn’t have had the chance to arrive there. Today we believe that this incident happened approximately 12000 years ago. That means that the island must have sunk about 10000 years B. C.

If we compare everything we know so far with the ideas presented by Plato, there are three points which are to be compared: Localisation, dimensions and the moment of the island’s disappearance. All three are results of the research corresponding with Plato’s descriptions about Atlantis, but we will deal more exactly with the comparison of the extent and moment of its fall.

Plato describes Atlantis in his dialogue “(...) as an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia (...)” (http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.sum.html), but we have to bear in mind that in Plato’s time Asia was the today’s Middle East and Libya was the part of Africa well-known in the antiquity. But in spite of this fact, Atlantis had to be a really large island. According to Plato there was a plain in the south of the island 6000000 square stages big, corresponding to 200000 square kilometres. If we assume this level constituted approximately half of the island, we calculated a total volume of 400000 square kilometres. This extent was also calculated by the submarine contours of the Azores space. The time of Atlantis’ fall must have been according to Plato’s description approximately 9500 B. C.- the sinking of the “Gulf Stream Island” before 12000 years. With the comparison of these two descriptions one receives a difference from only 500 years, so the moment of Atlantis’ fall corresponds nearly exactly with that of the “Gulf Stream Island”.

Since a lot of information of these two “Test Objects” corresponds, it is probable that the two islands were in reality the same. That would mean that today’s Azores were a remainder of Atlantis. The question of its former existence would no longer be asked. However, till today there is still no generally accepted proof that this theory is correct.

For additional evidence, click here.
The Legend | Archaeology | Atlantology | Resources
© ThinkQuest 1999 Team 25245

http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/atlantology/azores.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 12:57:38 pm
(http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/media/quaterway.gif)

Why do make people contacts between Atlantis and this part of seafloor in the Atlantic ocean? Well, the question remains, how and when the disappearance of the island happened. The answer is situated in the fact that the sea level did not change, but the ocean bottom, together with the land-mass of the island put in it, descended. So, the only remaining things are today’s well-known Azores. At the end of the Quaternary, and also with the end of the “Würm Ice Age” the climate in Northwest Europe radically changed, caused by the arrival of the Gulf Stream. So we can assume that the island had sunken by that time, otherwise the Gulf Stream wouldn’t have had the chance to arrive there. Today we believe that this incident happened approximately 12000 years ago. That means that the island must have sunk about 10000 years B. C.

If we compare everything we know so far with the ideas presented by Plato, there are three points which are to be compared: Localisation, dimensions and the moment of the island’s disappearance. All three are results of the research corresponding with Plato’s descriptions about Atlantis, but we will deal more exactly with the comparison of the extent and moment of its fall.

Plato describes Atlantis in his dialogue “(...) as an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia (...)” (http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.sum.html), but we have to bear in mind that in Plato’s time Asia was the today’s Middle East and Libya was the part of Africa well-known in the antiquity. But in spite of this fact, Atlantis had to be a really large island. According to Plato there was a plain in the south of the island 6000000 square stages big, corresponding to 200000 square kilometres. If we assume this level constituted approximately half of the island, we calculated a total volume of 400000 square kilometres. This extent was also calculated by the submarine contours of the Azores space. The time of Atlantis’ fall must have been according to Plato’s description approximately 9500 B. C.- the sinking of the “Gulf Stream Island” before 12000 years. With the comparison of these two descriptions one receives a difference from only 500 years, so the moment of Atlantis’ fall corresponds nearly exactly with that of the “Gulf Stream Island”.

Since a lot of information of these two “Test Objects” corresponds, it is probable that the two islands were in reality the same. That would mean that today’s Azores were a remainder of Atlantis. The question of its former existence would no longer be asked. However, till today there is still no generally accepted proof that this theory is correct.

For additional evidence, click here.
The Legend | Archaeology | Atlantology | Resources
© ThinkQuest 1999 Team 25245

http://library.thinkquest.org/25245/atlantology/azores.html


Title: Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean
Post by: dhill757 on December 13, 2010, 01:00:46 pm
We dont know if Atlantis was in Azores, but Neptune was there

 Neptune at Horta (village of Azores):

(http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2633/neptunelj7.jpg)

(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4763/semttuloip2.jpg)

"On 15 February, 1986, a Saturday, between noon and 1600 hours, the Azores suffered the greatest storm of this century, with winds reaching velocities of nearly 250 Km/h. José Henrique Azevedo took photographs before and after the storm. Waves reached heights of between 15 and 20 metres and, when they broke, as high as 60 metres (from the MSL to the top of the breaking wave, the height is 60m in the above picture!). Two years later when José Henrique wished to show proof of this event to visiting yachtsmen, he printed two of the photographs. Having done so he discovered that at the moment when he had photographed a particular breaking wave it had taken on human form (hair, eyes, nose, mouth and beard) and thus became known as the "Neptune at Horta" "

Text and image source Peter Café Sport

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread283926/pg1