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Atlantis => Atlantis & the Atlantic Ocean => Topic started by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 03:41:52 pm



Title: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 03:41:52 pm

FROM:


ATLANTIS

The Eighth Continent

By Charles Berlitz




It has sometimes been suggested that Atlantis did not sink into the sea, but was
"drowned" by the ocean through the rising waters by the sudden melting of the glacial ice.  The distinction between these two dooms, relatively unimportant to the
victims of the disaster, would nevertheless imply that the present small islands which exist where Atlantis was reputed to have been might contain, in the sea-
mounts, plateaus and marine valleys surrounding them, some underwater vestiges
of buildings or walls indicating the one-time presence of an advanced culture. 

Soviet underwater research has recently provided a certain measure of corroboration of this theory.

Russia, although not bordering on the Atlantic, has nevertheless maintained a lively interest in that Ocean and in the tradition of the Lost Continent that perhaps gave the Atlantic its name.  Russians, perhaps through the often mystical aspect of the "Russian Soul," have produced a number of important writers who have dealt with the subject of Atlantis.  These have included Dmitri Merezhkovski, of Czarist times, who likened the doom of Atlantis to the future doom of Europe; Nikolai Zhirov, whose book (ATLANTIS: 1964) extensively examines the historical references and geological material available on Atlantis and its probable location in the Atlantic; and V. Bryusov, an historian, who traces all ancient civilizations as descending from an"X" culture, or "a culture as yet unknown to science," as the teacher and impulse of the beginnings of civilization - Atlantis.

Members of a Soviet deep-sea expedition carried out by the ACADEMICIAN PETRO-
VSKY, a Russian research ship, were at first unaware that certain of the many photographs of the seafloor obtained by their underwater cameras showed not only the bottom topography, but also archaeological relics where legendary Atlantis
was supposedly located.






Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Qoais on March 23, 2007, 03:46:59 pm
Oh Sure Bianca
Leave us hanging l
                        l
                        l
                        l
                        l              Where?



Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 04:15:45 pm



Hon, I'm TYPING  the rest and my fingers are really S L O W today!!!


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 04:17:54 pm


GREAT!  NOW THE WHOLE BLOODY THING HAS DISAPPEARED.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Qoais on March 23, 2007, 04:29:17 pm
Click the "back" button to get back to where you were typing.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 04:56:51 pm


THE RUSSIANS                                                                                        continued




The aim and results of the expedition, which took place in the early part of 1974, were summarized by M. Barinov, and appeared in the Soviet publication ZNANIE-SILA, Number 8, in 1979, at the time that numerous articles about the find appeared in the World Press.


"The purpose of the expedition was to study the
sandbanks in the shallow waters of the Mediterranean
Sea and of the Atlantic Ocean, not far from northwest
Africa.  On board the ship, as part of the team, were
geologists and biologists.  The origin, structure and
population of the sandbanks, the peaks of underwater
mountains and of the shallows comprised the main
scientific interest of the specialists.  In the team there
was also a researcher from the USSR Institute of
Oceanography, Vladimir Ivanovich Marakuyev, who
was a specialist in underwater photography."


Whenever the research ship was within the desired coordinates for shots of the
bottom,


"........lighting equipment and special cameras were
lowered to a depth of about three and a half meters
above the bottom, after which the lights were switched
on and a series of photographs were taken, using a
simple automatic device.  Each series took about an
hour to an hour and a half to complete.  At the same
time, other members of the expedition carried out ex-
periments and a series of tests, with the aid of other
apparatus.  The water in the Atlantic near Gibraltar
was exceptionally clear and the work of the expedition
depended only on the weather.  During the winter storms,
when the ship started to roll from side to side, work
had to be discontinued and sometimes shelter had to
be sought."


In light of subsequent revelations,it should be pointed out that the researchers and crew had other purposes in mind than searching for remains of Atlantis, although what they found may prove to be the first photographs ever taken of sunken ruins on the Lost Continent.

The ACADEMICIAN PETROWSKY began its underwater camera survey of the Horseshoe archipelago about 300 miles west of Gibraltar in January 1974.  A large
number of photographs were taken of the bottom hundreds of feet under water, in approximately the same area where Captain Robson's mysterious island appeared and then vanished.  This underwater chain of islands has been described in THE
ATLANTIC FLOOR, by Heezen, Thorpe, Young:


"....an important group of underwater mountains
arranged in a horseshoe.  Some of them, such as the
underwater mountains Ampere and Josephine, rise to
a depth of less than 100 fathoms....Photographs taken
of the surface of these mountains show cliffs, traces
of ripples and isolated living corals.  The underwater
mountains of the northern half of the Horsehoes, which
have not yet been properly studied, stretch from west
to east.  The southern half of the group apparently
resembles volcanic cones, while for the northern half,
tectonic changes played an important role."

                                                                                          


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 05:27:00 pm



THE RUSSIANS                                                                                        continued



A previous American expedition from the Lamont Geological Observatory had in-
vestigated this same area by taking cores, photographs, and dredging the bottom.  Although certainly not the primary object of the oceanic research, no traces of ancient man were found, reminding one of an observation made by Dr. Maurice Ewing, who said he "spent thirteen years exploring the Mid-Atlantic Ridge [but] found no trace of sunken cities."

The Soviet expedition apparently had better luck.  When the extensive series of photographs taken from the ACADEMICIAN PETROVSKY were being developed, studied and catalogued, it was noted by Marakuyev, who had been in charge of the photography, that the pictures taken on the summit of the Ampere Seamount, a submarine plateau which thrusts upward from a 10,000-foot depth to within 200 feet of the surface, showed a number of unexpected features.  Marakuyev has expressed his initial reaction to the surprising objects that appeared on several
of the photographs:


"While still on the expedition, when I had developed the photographs and made
prints, I realized that I had never seen anything like it before.  The Institute of Oceanography of the USSR has a huge archive of underwater photographs that have been taken on countless expeditions over many years in all parts of the world's oceans.  We also have copies of many thousands of photographs taken by our American colleagues.  Nowhere have I seen anything so close to traces of the life and activity of man in places which could once have been dry land."


The following comments from the ZNANIE-SILA point out some salient features of
the underwater discoveries:


"On the first photograph we can see this wall on the
left side of the photographs.  Stone blocks on the upper
edge of the wall are clearly visible....Taking into
account the foreshortening of the photograph and the
height of the wall, it is curious to examine more closely
the strip of vertical masonry.  Although the lens was
pointing almost vertically downwards, areas of ma-
sonry can be seen quite clearly.  One can count five
such areas, and if one takes into account the defor-
mation of scale caused by the nearness of the lens to
the object, one may suggest that the masonry blocks
of the wall are up to 1.5 meters high and a little longer
in length.

On the second photograph we can see the same
wall from directly above.  It crosses the picture di-
agonally.  The control disc is in the center.  It is not
difficult to calculate that the breadth of the wall is
about 75 centimeters.  The masonry blocks are clearly
visible on both sides of the wall.  Seaweed is visible
on all the photographs, thick, reddish brown in color....

The third photograph is from another series taken
at the summit of the Ampere Seamount.  An area over
which lava has flowed can be seen on it, and it appears
to descend by three steps.  If one counts the upper and
barely visible lower edges....in all we can see five
steps.  They are broken down, of course, and over-
grown with glass-like sponges.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 23, 2007, 06:15:11 pm



THE RUSSIANS                                                                                         continued



The article ends with a vigorous recommendation for the continuation of Soviet exploration for the Lost Continent.


"....the science of oceanography has made gigantic
strides in knowledge over the last 10 to 12 years; the
techniques of research have received powerful aids.
The chief of these are automated underwater devices
which have considerable range of depth.  These mi-
crosubmarines can descend several kilometers, move
along horizontally, have powerful searchlights, me-
chanical "hands" to take samples of rock or any other
objects from the seabed.  Since the KURCHATOV  is one
of two of our boats that have such underwater equip-
ment on board, and is more or less a "permanent
resident" in the Atlantic and almost every year passes
the region of the Horseshoe, one can only repeat, what
are we waiting for?"


The Soviet discoveries at the Ampere Seamount, unpublicized for several years, received worldwide publicity in 1978 through an interview with Professor Andrei
Aksyonov, deputy director of the Soviet Academy of Science's Institute of Ocean-
ography.  The interview took place in Moscow and was published in THE NEW YORK
TIMES on May 21, 1978.

Professor Aksyonov was quoted as wondering why the pictures did not come to his attention until 1977.  "I don't know why it took him [Marakuyev] so long to get to them."  He later observed, according to the Times reporter, that he was sorry he
could not produce the pictures since "they belong to Marakuyev and he is very sick with a heart condition in a hospital,"  adding encouragingly, "I don't think they will be published in one of our scientific journals sometime soon."

Professor Aksyonov, while guarding a seeming neutrality on Atlantean identification of the ruins, further stated, "I believe that the objects in the pictures once stood on the surface."

In a later AP release from Moscow in April 1979, Alexander Nesterenko, director of the Fleet Department of the Institute of Oceanogrphy, confirmed the report  that a
research ship had taken photographs of "what might be ruins", but denied reports
that another Soviet research ship, the VITYAZ, was investigating the same site, stating that the VITYAZ was "engaged in other business."

An indication of what the "other business" might be was touched upon by Egerton Sykes, a life-long student of the Atlantis mystery, in an interview with the author in
November 1982.


[Q]  Why do you think there have not been further declarations from the USSR about the Soviet discoveries on the Ampere Seamount?

[A]  It must have been of considerable importance to them, as nothing more has been given out about it.  They probably wish to conceal the real place where they made the pictures.

[Q]  Where do you think that was?

[A]  I think they may have been made off the Azores, which is a more strategic location anyway.  They [the Russians] are not looking for Atlantis but for places to park submarines under the sea in case of nuclear war.  The ship that made the
discovery was a highly qualified Soviet spy ship, as most of them are.  I think it is possible that the photographs were taken off the Azores, between Santa Maria and Sao Jorge, somewhere comparatively near the Formigas Rocks.  The picture of a plumbline 200 feet down would be applicable there as well as on the Ampere Seamount.  The Russians could not officially report having taken photographs there, as they should not be there, anyhow."

[Q]  What is your opinion of the stones and platforms shown in the photographs?

[A]  They are  very intriguing.  The stone staircase that is distinctly visible was evi-
dently cut into the cliff.  There must be a lot of stairs below the point where the part shown in the photograph started.  It was probably a flight of 100 steps or more up a rock face, dangerous to go up or down, like the steps on the Mayan and Aztec
pyramids.  One of the other photographs shows a leveled-off stone platform which may be a landing connected to another staircase, as in a step pyramid.

[Q]  Do you know of any other recent finds in the Ampere area?

[A}  Not near Madeira, but I have seen photographs of sunken walls and pavements several miles out at sea from Cadiz, Spain.  They are very well defined and should be of easy access, but unofficial exploration in this area tends to encounter Spanish naval units, which take a dim view of unauthorized undersea in-
vestigation of areas near the Spanish coast, especially near Cadiz and the naval base at Rota.  When diving near these installations, you are apt to find yourself in
a minefield."



FROM:


ATLANTIS

The Eighth Continent


Charles Berlitz - 1984


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are a lot of pictures  in the middle of my book.  Unfortunately, with age, they
have become loose and.......the Russian pictures are missing!~


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Egerton Sykes was the foremost Atlantologist of his time and his library the largest
in the world.

After his death, the Association of Resarch and Enlightenment purchased the
entire library.

It resides in its own room at the Edgar Cayce  Library in Virginia Beach.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Helios on March 24, 2007, 04:22:08 pm
Hello Bianca,

Thank you for going through all the trouble of typing this. 


Quote
There are a lot of pictures  in the middle of my book.  Unfortunately, with age, they
have become loose and.......the Russian pictures are missing!~


I have this book and have seen the pictures.  They are a bit dark and grainy, but they do slightly resemble lava encrusted walls and steps.  They could be natural formations, then one never knows.  I will see if I can scan the pictures in soon and add them to your thread.  Hopefully, they will turn out.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 24, 2007, 04:47:24 pm

Thank you, Helios.

That would be wonderful, as I don't really recall the pictures, at all;
that goes to show how long I have had the book......

Being on this Forum, I have found myself, as never before, to be pull-
ing out just about everything I have regarding whatever is being dis-
cussed.  And, believe me, I have so much, in spite of getting rid of
about 200 books before I moved here, almost seven years ago......

Love and Peace,
Bianca


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Qoais on March 24, 2007, 07:01:38 pm
Hi Helios
Hurry UP!!!! >:( >:(


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 24, 2007, 11:39:31 pm
Yeah  ,there is always a Russian in there somewhere   :P..It seems in most areas of human endeavour you'll find a Russian working away behind the scenes ....A bit like Australians really   ;)

Anyone remember that Russian scholar who tried to find Atlantis off the Celtic shelf in the late nineties ? 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Gwen Parker on March 24, 2007, 11:57:33 pm
Here you go, Mark:

The Celtic Shelf hypothesis:

Atlantis: New Hypothesis

by Viatcheslav Koudriavtsev

------------------------------------------------------------------------


FROM THE AUTHOR

This is the third edition of my paper. The first one was sent as a brochure "Returning to the Enigma of Plato's Atlantis" to Ancient History Departments of some Universities and to Geographical Societies of a number of countries in June 1995. The magazine version of it has come out in the May 1996 issue of "Vokrug Sveta" ("Around the World", Magazine of Travels, Adventures and SF) - a kind of Russian "National Geographic". The second one was published in some newsgroups and mailing lists in February - March 1996. In the present edition I am trying to provide answers to most of the questions I was asked after those publications. Besides, I have since found some materials illustrating some of my suggestions.

I would like to apologise for some prolixity of the introduction and maybe the slightly simplified style of setting forth some theses, which are due to the fact that the paper is meant not only for experts on the issue, but also for those who are not familiar in detail with a whole range of issues connected with the subject.

The two translations of Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias used are the Thomas Taylor translation first published in 1804 and considered to be classic (Plato. The Timaeus and the Critias or Atlantis. The Thomas Taylor translation. N.Y., Pantheon books, 1944) and the Desmond Lee translation, first published in 1965 (Timaeus) and in 1971 (Critias) (Plato. Timaeus and Critias. Penguin books, 1994).

I also had parallel texts of the dialogues in ancient Greek and in Latin (Platonis Opera. Graece et latine. Paris, 1877).

Where not specified, Desmond Lee's translation of Plato is quoted, since his language is more up-to-date.

After quotations in round brackets, it is indicated where in Plato's text the passage quoted belongs according to the traditionally accepted pagination.

The Greek words given in the explanation of quotations have been transcribed with Latin letters by the author because of the ASCII-codes format.

The bold type in the quotations and the explanations in square brackets are mine.

I would like to express my gratitude to: •V.E.Schitz for assistance in my work;

•M.A.Garntsev, Ph. D., Associate Professor, Department of the History of Foreign Philosophy, Faculty of Philosophy, Moscow State University, for consultations on the Greek text;

•E.Y.Koudriavtseva for help with translating the paper into English;

•M.V.Dyakonova of the Institute of Scientific Information on Social Sciences of the Russian Academy of Sciences.


INTRODUCTION

Everyone will have heard at one time or another the name of Atlantis mentioned, we can come across it in various contexts. Almost any encyclopedia these days is sure to have an article on Atlantis, which usually reads something like this: "Atlantis - according to an ancient Greek myth recorded by Plato, there had once existed a vast island in the Atlantic Ocean to the west of Gibraltar, with fertile soil, and densely populated, which sank to the bottom of the sea because of an earthquake. Questions of whether Atlantis has ever existed, and if so, why it vanished, today continue to arouse as much controversy among scientists as ever."

On The Source

Plato speaks of Atlantis in two works - dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Dialogue was a genre widely popular in Ancient Greece, in which information or ideas are not narrated by the author himself, but are presented to the reader by two or more interlocutors addressing each other. Such a genre is convenient for presenting differing views on the same subject and, besides, makes it possible to render the experience cited in support of the deliberations, concrete to the utmost. Therefore, the genre of the ancient Greek dialogues should not be seen merely as short-hand records of actual conversations.

In both dialogues the story of Atlantis is told by Critias, Plato's maternal great grandfather, narrating word for word the conversation between Solon and an Egyptian priest. In Timaeus the issue of Atlantis is raised along with many others, while the unfinished Critias, in all probability, was to be exclusively devoted to it. Critias also explains how he himself came to hear the story. He heard it from his grandfather whose name was also Critias, who, in his turn, had heard it from Solon himself, who had been a close friend of his father, Dropides.

In his conversation with Solon, the priest, referring to the sacred records, speaks of a powerful country, Atlantis, lying outside the Pillars of Hercules, of the beginning of a war between Atlanteans and the citizens of Athens and of a catastrophe which destroyed both, and resulted in Atlantis sinking to the bottom "in a single dreadful day and night".

The priest also says how many years have elapsed since - nine thousand years. Besides, Critias contains the myth of the origin of the rulers of Atlantis, the description of its geography, architecture and of its social life, all of which suggests the idea of imagination having been used to make up for the lack of information.

It is estimated that the dialogue took place around the year 425 B.C. (Plato himself must have been about 2 years old at the time). Critias-grandson, Plato's great grandfather, was probably about 80 at the time, and he had heard the story about 70 years before (i.e. around the year 495 B.C.), from Critias-grandfather, when the latter was about 90. Since Critias-grandfather had heard it from Solon himself, who belonged to the same generation as his father, it can be reasonably assumed that the conversation between Solon and the Egyptian priest took place around 600 - 575 B.C. Thus, it follows that, according to Plato, Atlantis vanished in the middle of the 10th millennium B.C.

Phenomenon Of Atlantis

Hardly anyone in the world knows exactly how many books have been written about Atlantis by the proponents and opponents of the idea that it once existed. Those who have attempted to count them, come up with widely diverging, albeit invariably four-digit numbers. No doubt, the topic of Atlantis could claim its place among he best-selling topics of the current century.

The special attention that Plato's narration about Atlantis gets can be accounted for by the fact that the country described in Timaeus and Critias does not fit in with our present-day ideas of the history of humanity, and the date of its vanishing, as recorded by Plato, goes back to unprecedentedly early times. If we treat this narration as trustworthy, a new and more comprehensive model of the history of mankind's development is essential.

The idea seems attractive to many, in view of the numerous blank spots and contradictions in the existing concept of the history of humanity (for instance, such as the vast span of time between the emergence of an anatomically modern Homo Sapiens and the development of the first civilisations), all the more so, that the text which could bring about a revision of the existing model is authored by Plato, who stands with Socrates and Aristotle as one of the shapers of the whole intellectual tradition of the West.

At the same time, Plato's narration about Atlantis stands by itself, it is not directly corroborated or indirectly echoed by anything, and in itself does not give sufficient grounds for such a revision.

Regrettably, most of the Atlantis enthusiasts are swayed by emotions, and this lures them away from the commitment to scientific correctness. They have found in the epos of many peoples of the world what they call "direct indications" of the Atlantean descent of these peoples. Deluded by wishful thinking, they often fall prey to perverted logic: "If the "Belt of Pyramids" exists, it follows that Atlantis also existed in reality."

In the upshot, the problem has become something of a scientific curiosity. Even if scientific data coming to light as time goes by, are interpreted in the context of Atlantis, as a rule, it is done in a biased way and has little in common with a balanced scientific approach.

Viewpoints

Without claiming to present an exhaustive survey of the existing viewpoints on the issue, I would like to list only the ones I believe to be the most widespread.

• Some believe that Atlantis is Plato's invention from beginning to end, which he needed to expound his ideas of an ideal state.

• Others, who do not consider Plato's narration to be an invention, persevere in trying to interpret it in a way which would make it possible to link it with the already explored archaeological sites. Thus, some of them contend that none other than the island of Crete is Plato's Atlantis, claiming also that Greeks used the name of the Pillars of Hercules, mentioned by Plato, not for what is now called the Strait of Gibraltar, but for some rocks which were situated on the way from Athens to Crete. Given such an interpretation, it becomes imperative for them to bring the date of the vanishing of Atlantis given by Plato, in line with the time of the decline of the Minoan civilisation, established by archaeologists, and link it to the explosion of Thera/Santorin. Hence, rise is given to the hypothesis that the span of time between the vanishing of Atlantis and the conversation between Solon and the priest is actually 10 times shorter, and that the mistake was made either when Egyptian priests were copying the sacred records (it is suggested that the characters denoting 100 and 1000 in the Egyptian hieroglyphic system of writing are alike) or because Plato himself, like all his contemporaries, had little sense of time and dating. The same thesis of a mistake of multiplication by ten is used by the proponents of the Cretan Atlantis as regards the dimensions of the island, for the numbers Plato gives in Critias do not quite fit in with their theory, to put it mildly. Similar arguments are used to substantiate a variety of hypotheses, including some according to which Atlantis was situated not even in the Mediterranean Sea, but in the Sea of Marmara or the Black Sea.

• Yet others, fervently believing in the truthfulness of the information provided by Plato, rush to search for Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean. They have already announced, at different times, that the Azore, Canary and Bahama Islands, as well as some other more or less suitable ones, are the remains of Plato's sunken island. They also like to juggle with suggestions of mistakes in the numerals as regards the dimensions of Atlantis.

I will endeavour to analyse once again Plato's narration, comparing its basic elements and their interpretations with some fairly credible facts, and suggest for your consideration one more hypothesis, which, in my opinion, hardly has more weak points, vulnerable to criticism, than the already existing ones.

INVENTION ?

First of all, it is highly doubtful that Plato would have had to invent Atlantis to expound his ideas of an ideal state system, - indeed, he had previously expounded them more than once in his other works, without any geographical hoaxes.

Secondly, in Timaeus itself there already exists - and is actively used by Plato - an object only too suitable for setting forth utopian concepts - the pre-historic Athens, so the supposition that Plato needed to invent specifically for the purpose a second, let alone such an exotic one as Atlantis, seems rather far-fetched.

Thirdly, the explanation of how the information of Atlantis came to Plato's notice, does not seem to contain logical contradictions, which in itself enhances its credibility. It also sounds convincing that events of such ancient history are narrated to Solon by none other than an Egyptian priest, and the way he explains why Greeks had lost their historical memory.

"You are all [Greeks] young in mind," came the reply: "you have no belief rooted in old tradition and no knowledge hoary with age. And the reason is this. There have been and will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water, lesser ones by countless other means...

But in our temples we have preserved from earliest times a written record of any great or splendid achievement or notable event which has come to our ears whether it occurred in your part of the world or here or anywhere else; whereas with you and others, writing and the other necessities of civilisation have only just been developed when the periodic scourge of the deluge descends, and spares none but the unlettered and uncultured, so that you have to begin again like children, in complete ignorance of what happened in our part of the world or in yours in early times...

You remember only one deluge, though there have been many, and you do not know that the finest and best race of men that ever existed lived in your country; you and your fellow citizens are descended from the few survivors that remained, but you know nothing about it because so many succeeding generations left no record in writing". (Tim. 22d-23c)

Of course, the archaeological data on which modern ideas of the past of humanity are based, is vast. But the history of Earth has seen a lot of natural cataclysms of enormous proportions, and we cannot completely discard the possibility that the historical memory of humanity has indeed been curtailed, due to the destruction of material evidence by a catastrophe more violent than the ones we know of in the so-called "historical time". (Just imagine what the picture of life on Earth in the 19th century would have looked like a thousand years later, if both Europe and North America had been erased from the face of Earth by some catastrophe.)

WHEN ?

Assertions that Plato had a vague idea of time and chronology do not seem well-substantiated. Besides, there is such a natural approximate measure for assessing large spans of time as a generation, and it does not seem likely that Plato did not perceive the distinction between a period covering the lifespans of several tens of generations and that encompassing several hundreds of generations. (Hardly anyone would assert that Plato had a vague idea of the distinction between tens and hundreds.)

Any assumption that Solon made a mistake in reading the Egyptian hieroglyphs he did not know sufficiently well, should be discarded as Plato explicitly says that he did not read the sacred records himself, but was told of their contents by the priest.

Another reason for the mistake of multiplication by 10 might have been the misunderstanding by Solon of the numerals in the Egyptian priest's story, which is highly improbable, since, firstly, there are several numerals in the story, and, secondly, the spans of time which these numerals describe are interrelated in the priest's story.

"Solon was astonished at what he heard and eagerly begged the priests to describe to him in detail the doings of these citizens of the past. "I will gladly do so, Solon," replied the priest, "both for your sake and your city's, but chiefly in gratitude to the Goddess to whom it has fallen to bring up and educate both your country and ours - yours first, when she took over your seed from Earth and Hephaestus, ours a thousand years later. The age of our institutions is given in our sacred records as eight thousand years, and the citizens whose laws and whose finest achievement I will now briefly describe to you therefore lived nine thousand years ago; we will go through their history in detail later on at leisure, when we can consult the records." (Tim. 23d-24a)

However, if we do assume that Solon misunderstood the priest, it would be difficult to imagine an Egyptian priest who, around the year 600 B.C. gives the age of civilisation in the Nile Valley as 800 years. And it would be an outright impossibility to assume that sacred records could have contained such nonsense, and that "nine thousand years" only appeared in the story in the process of copying, as a result of an accidental substitution of the character denoting thousands for another one, denoting hundreds.

Yet another argument against the alleged mistake of multiplication by ten is the fact that none of the sources dealing with the second millennium B.C., contains any reference to what is described by Plato in his narrative about Atlantis, and consequently, either his narrative, after all, is a hoax, or it is really a case of information lost and accidentally retrieved - information going back to a much earlier period.

DIMENSIONS

In Critias it is said that the capital city of Atlanteans is surrounded by a plain 2,000 x 3,000 stades (approximately 385 x 580 km). As we have already said, proponents of various hypotheses requiring some adjustment of Plato's data to suit the existing convenient sites, are fond of using the assertion of a numerical mistake consisting in the multiplication of numerals by ten, not only as regards the time, but also the dimensions of the plain. That is why everything we said above about such a method of interpreting Plato being unable to stand up to criticism from the viewpoint of logic, is applicable to these figures, too.

And in general, if it is suggested that almost all the numerical data are erroneous and should be revised, then, in my opinion, the whole thing becomes somewhat absurd: would it not be easier to cross out Plato's narrative of Atlantis and write their own instead, the parameters of which would be acceptable for them.

There is yet another argument testifying to the fact that there had never been any mistake of multiplication by ten as regards the dimensions. Plato said that Atlantis was "larger than Asia and Libya combined" (Tim. 24e). Even if we presume that Asia here stands for what is now called the Near East - just a small part of the Asian continent, and Libya - for a small part of North Africa, it is difficult to believe that Plato would describe a territory several dozens kilometres wide, as larger in size than the two of them.

THE PILLARS OF HERCULES (HERACLES)

It would also seem expedient now to dot all the i's and cross all the t's concerning what Plato calls the Pillars of Hercules. Let us read the passage on the parts of territory allotted to Poseidon's sons:

"His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles and facing the district now called Gadira, was called in Greek Eumelus but in his own language Gadirus..." (Critias. 114b)

In Plato's time, ancient Greeks used the name of Gadirus for the city which was situated where modern Cadiz stands now, on the Atlantic coast of the Pyrenean Peninsula. How much must the proponents of the Cretan hypothesis want to adjust Plato's narrative to that hypothesis, to find on the way from Athens to Crete some rocks which allegedly were called the Pillars of Hercules.

Had such rocks really existed, and had the Island of Crete really been Atlantis, then for the Egyptian priest its inhabitants would have been those who lived "inside the Pillars", while the inhabitants of Athens would have been those who lived "outside the Pillars".

WHERE ?

If we accept as trustworthy Plato's data concerning the time when Atlantis existed, and its dimensions, and if we resist the temptation of placing this enigmatic land somewhere in the Mediterranean Sea, a question arises of where in the Atlantic it was situated and where it is possible to find some evidence of its existence there in the past.

According to geological data, there had been no rising or sinking of the earth-crust in the Atlantic Ocean area not only in the last dozens of thousands, but even in millions of years, that would be commensurate with the sinking of a big island or a small continent. The map of the Atlantic itself bears it out graphically: the outlines of the continental platforms of Africa and South America fit in ideally; similarly, North America, Greenland, Scandinavia and Europe make up a perfectly fitting mosaic, in which there simply is no room for an allegedly lost fragment (particularly of such dimensions as Plato described). All the edges of the continental shelf facing the ocean also coincide with the bends of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and the earth-crust rift zone itself, from which continents are "sliding apart" (See map of Northern Atlantic).

On the other hand, the time when Atlantis vanished, as given by Plato, precisely coincides with the end of the last Ice Age (I would like to remind the readers that Plato speaks of the 10th millennium B.C.). Meanwhile, it has been ascertained that during the last Ice Age the level of the world Ocean was considerably lower than at present - according to different estimates, as a rule, by 70 to almost 200 m (See Relative Sea Level Database). Considerable discrepancies in the paleooceanographic data on the sea level fluctuations (mostly glacio-eustatic for this period), obtained by dating the ancient coastal formations, arise from

• firstly, the imprecision of the dating techniques themselves (both C-14 and others);

• secondly, the impossibility of reliably taking into account the changes of the absolute altitude of an area, caused by the geological risings and sinkings (though for these datings test samples from relatively stable platform zones are used).

The 200 metres isodepth line on the map of the Atlantic Ocean gives an approximate idea of how the coastline must have looked at that time.

It can be seen that in the area of the present Azores and Canaries, which are most often pointed out as the remains of the sunken Atlantis, there had been no sizeable land area (See again map of Northern Atlantic).

It can also be seen that in the west of Europe, where now the North Sea is situated, and around the British Isles, during the last Ice Age there had existed a vast area of land, large enough, without any stretch, for a plain two by three thousand stades (See map of the Celtic Shelf).

ISLAND ?

But the Greek nesos quite unambiguously is translated as "island", and I have no reasons whatsoever to assume that once upon a time it could have had another meaning as well. In the same vein, the Latin insula does not seem to allow other interpretations. So, is it possible to equate that area of land in the west of Europe with Plato's Atlantis? I believe, it is, and there are two possible explanations of why the word which means "island" is used for something that was actually not one:

1.What gives grounds for this is what Critias says in the dialogue of the same title about the distortion of names due to their translation from language to language as the story was transmitted:

"Before I begin, a brief word of explanation, in case you are surprised at hearing foreigners so often referred to by Greek names. The reason is this. Solon intended to use the story in his own poem. And when, on inquiring about the significance of the names, he learned that the Egyptians had translated the originals into their own language, he went through the reverse process, and as he learned the meaning of a name wrote it down in Greek. My father had his manuscript, which is now in my possession, and I studied it often as a child. So if you hear names like those we use here, don't be surprised; I have given you the reason." (Critias. 113a-b)

It would seem appropriate to assume that, in being retold and passed so many times over, and in being translated from language to language, and in attempts to grasp the information through the prism of geographic realities which had already changed, a reduction of such notions as "land, territory, country - island" might have taken place.

After I have criticised unwarranted assumptions in the Mediterranean hypotheses, and assertions that mistakes had been made in the numerals, the readers may now reproach me for considerably stretching a point in interpreting Plato's narrative. That is why I would like to quote several passages, which, I believe, substantiate the legitimacy of my assumption, if in reading them we abstract ourselves from the word "island" (which I for convenience shall write in slash marks), focusing instead on the context in which it is used.

Of great interest is what Critias says after concluding the description of the capital city of Atlanteans:

"I have given you a pretty complete account of what was told me about the city and its original buildings; I must now try to recall the nature and organisation of the rest of the country. To begin with the region as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously; the city was surrounded by a uniformly flat plain, which was in turn enclosed by mountains which came right down to the sea. The plain was rectangular in shape, measuring three thousand stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand stades in breadth from the coast. This whole area of the /island/ faced south, and was sheltered from the north winds." (Critias. 117e-118a)

As we see, the description is rather contradictory. The thing is that in the Greek text, after Critias says that having described the city, he will proceed to the narration of the nature of the rest of the territory tes d allas khoras os e phusis, he actually returns to the description of the city as the place topos situated high above the sea level, from which it rises precipitously, after which he contrasts it de with the flat plain surrounding the city. Such an interpretation of the logic of the passage is borne out by the use in the same passage of two words - khoras and topos, which semantically must refer to different notions, hence, it was only the city that was situated high above the sea level, but not the plain. And again there is no indication whatsoever of land surrounded by the sea on all sides. The only image evoked by this description is that of a city on a hill rising precipitously from the sea, and the flat plain surrounding it, enclosed on three sides by mountains. This description suits in every detail, the land that once existed in the west of Europe: the mountains are the present Ireland, Great Britain and, possibly, the north-western part of France; the plain itself, which now constitutes the shelf to the south of the British Isles (sometimes called the Celtic Shelf) fits the dimensions specified by Plato, and the edge of the continental platform faces south-southwest. At about 48 d 25-30' N and 8 d 45-51' W, not far from this edge, there is a remarkable underwater hill called the Little Sole Bank marked on sufficiently minute maps. The top of the hill is 57 metres below the sea level, while the average depth around it is 130 - 160 metres. The hill is located approximately in the middle of the greater length of the plain in question (See again map of the Celtic Shelf).

Of course, the coastline of any island should form a closed circuit, and its length can be roughly estimated, as well as the width of the island. Plato's Critias, however, while giving in minute detail the dimensions of the plain adjoining the city, and giving the length of the canal encircling it, says nothing of the dimensions of the island as such, except that it was "larger than Asia and Libya combined".

Besides, it is not quite clear to what we owe the emergence of the stereotype, according to which Atlantis was situated "to the west" of Gibraltar, or "facing" it.

Thomas Taylor's translation reads:

"For at that time the Atlantic sea was navigable, and had an /island/ before that mouth which is called by you the Pillars of Hercules."

Desmond Lee in his translation uses the English word "opposite" to describe the location of Atlantis in relation to the strait, but we must take into account that he changed the logic of the description (Plato mentioned Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean context, but Lee describes it from the Mediterranean-centric viewpoint):

"For in those days the Atlantic was navigable. There was an /island/ opposite the strait which you call (so you say) the Pillars of Heracles..." (Tim. 24e)

The Greek preposition pro used by Plato in this passage means only that the island was situated "before" the strait, i.e. outside the Mediterranean, which means that the logical extension of its meaning towards denoting "immediately beyond", "right before" or "facing" (which gave rise to the traditional "to the west of") - is nothing but the second-guessing zeal of Plato's translators.

Nowhere does Plato call Atlanteans "islanders" - as a rule, the only specific point he makes is to emphasise the same contrast - that they did not live on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea:

"We must first remind ourselves that in all nine thousand years have elapsed since the declaration of war between those who lived outside and all those who lived inside the Pillars of Heracles." (Critias. 108e)

And this is how he describes the territories controlled by Atlanteans:

"They and their descendants for many generations governed their own territories and many other islands in the ocean and, as has already been said, also controlled the populations this side of the straits as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia." (Critias. 114c)

Let us also note that nowhere does he speak of the territories controlled by Atlanteans in terms of areas, describing only the length of the coastline. In all probability, it is connected with the geographical outlook of the time, shaped by the fact that people travelled mainly by sea, and maybe also by the specific features of population distribution in conditions of the Ice Age.

Let us now once again return to the already quoted passage about the distribution of allocations between Poseidon's sons.

In Desmond Lee's translation:

"His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the /island/ towards the Pillars of Heracles and facing the district now called Gadira, was called in Greek Eumelus but in his own language Gadirus..." (Critias. 114b)

In Thomas Taylor's translation:

"But the twin son that was born immediately after Atlas, and who was allotted the extreme parts of the /island/, towards the pillars of Hercules, as far as to the region which at present from that place is called Gadiric, he denominated according to his native tongue Gadirus, but which we call in Greek Eumelus."

Taylor's translation in this case is closer to the original, since the Greek epi to, like the Latin pars ad, almost always means "as far as to", "right up to", "bordering on". The reader will probably agree that but for the word "island" the description would accurately suit the district in the south of modern Portugal which is the part of Atlantic coast closest to Gibraltar (See map of Western Europe).

2.The narration of Atlantis in Plato's Critias begins with the myth of its origins (about Evenor and Leucippe, Poseidon and Cleito), which includes a description that baffles most of the translators and interpreters. Not only is it contradictory in itself, indeed, it contradicts most of the subsequent descriptions of Atlantis, which we have already discussed (as regards the dimensions of the plain and the size of the hill):

"At the centre of the island, near the sea, was a plain, said to be the most beautiful and fertile of all plains, and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades [9.65 km] inland a hill of no great size," (Critias. 113b)

- Lee translates, and makes a footnote that by saying "at the centre of the island" Plato meant "midway along its greatest length".

Taylor translates the passage as follows:

"Towards the sea, but in the middle of the island, there was a plain..."

In the Latin translation the word media is used here, which means "middle". In Plato's original the phrase kata de meson is used, which means "around the middle", "approximately in the middle", with the word meson from mesos usually implying the middle of a linear segment, while for the notion of "centre" another word exists. Besides, a long island, whose length considerably exceeds its width, must have two longer sides, and if it were really the description of an island, then an indication should have been given, the middle of which side is meant. So, without a stretch, this description could only be understood as the middle of a certain segment of the coastline.

On the other hand, the myth cannot but go back to the time preceding the time of the catastrophe by several thousand years, when the sea level had not yet gone down to its lowest mark, so that this place became a hill on the coast of the sea, but was still an island (See again map of the Celtic Shelf), which,

• firstly, eliminates all the contradictions, i.e. it becomes clear, why "near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland", while the plain measured "three thousand stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand stades in breadth from the coast" and was "larger than Asia and Libya combined", and why the hill was "of no great size" while "the region [of the city] as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously";

• secondly, makes it possible to assume that in relation to Atlantis the word "island" is used, because the central part of the city, surrounded by a canal (water ring) and situated on the top of the hill which used to be an island, historically continued to be called "King's Island" or "Poseidon's Island". Hence, possibly, the use of the word "island" in relation to the whole city and country by all who transmitted the narration, including Plato.

CLIMATE

Paleoclimatology gives a fairly clear picture of the climate during the Ice Age, based mainly on the paleobotanic data. Without describing in detail the distribution of climatic zones in the regions of Europe, I would like to note only that the temperature decreased with distance from the sea and with altitude above the sea level much more dramatically than in the present conditions, since climate on the whole was much more continental, and the climatic zones most suitable for habitation, i.e. zones with a moderate sea climate, were located in the not-too-wide strip of land along the seacoast. (The climatic conditions of all the other territories were so harsh, that they ruled out the development of civilisation there, that is why the palaeolithic settlements discovered by archaeologists, dating to the same period, in no way contradict this hypothesis.)

The climate of the territory in question for a number of reasons was extremely favourable.

• Firstly, the vast territory in close proximity of the ocean was only slightly elevated above the ocean level.

• Secondly, the plain was protected from northern winds and the cold influence of the ice sheet covering Scandinavia, exactly as in Plato's narrative, by the mountains, albeit not high, which encircled it.

• Thirdly, there are reasons to believe that a warm current, now known as Gulf Stream - North Atlantic Drift, washing the shores of western and northern Europe, used to wash the shores of the territory in point.

TRAVELLING TO THE OPPOSITE CONTINENT

For finding the answer to the question of where Atlantis was situated, the passage describing its whereabouts in relation to landmarks other than the Pillars of Hercules is of particular interest:

"...from it [Atlantis] travellers could in those days reach the other islands, and from them the whole opposite continent which surrounds what can truly be called the ocean." (Tim. 24e-25a)

In Thomas Taylor's translation it reads as follows:

"...and afforded an easy passage to other neighbouring islands; as it was likewise easy to pass from those islands to all the continent which borders on this Atlantic sea. For the waters which are beheld within the mouth which we just now mentioned, have the form of a bay with a narrow entrance; but the mouth itself is a true sea. And lastly, the earth which surrounds it is in every respect truly denominated the continent."

The argument about whether America is implied in this passage or not, can be veritably endless. But such a vision of the ocean surrounded by land, is strange, to say the least, for Plato of Greece or even for his imagination. Indeed, Greeks themselves did not know of America. So, this is a serious argument in support of the idea that Plato really possessed some information which had been lost long before his time, and that thanks to him, we have received uniquely ancient recorded information.

The phased character of sailing to the "opposite continent" in itself suggests the idea of the not-too-high level of navigation skills. The manner of action described would be appropriate for the Vikings' voyage to the island of Newfoundland, rather than for Columbus's search of a westward route to India. It is well known that both ancient Egyptians and the ancient Greeks we know of, sailed the seas on their ships, keeping to the coast and never losing sight of it. The very look of ancient maps testifies to this. So does the fact that no evidence has been found, that either Greeks or even Egyptians were familiar with the principles of navigation used in sailing the open seas. There are no grounds to believe that matters were different as regards Plato's Atlanteans and ancient Athenians.

Taking into account these considerations, we can see that in Timaeus a very accurate description is given of the route from the west of Europe to the above-mentioned island of Newfoundland via Iceland, Greenland and smaller islands, which, given a lower level of the ocean, must have been more numerous on the way.

CATASTROPHE

Attempts to link the vanishing of Atlantis to the rise of the world ocean level following the end of the last Ice Age have always met with serious objections. It is believed that the ocean level had been rising with different speed for over two thousand years, and critics asserted that the process did not correspond to the catastrophic character of what Plato described - the vanishing of Atlantis "in a single dreadful day and night". There may be two possible explanations of this discrepancy:

1.The first explanation is rather traditional: a tidal wave (tsunami) following some natural calamity destroyed the city and killed the armies, and then all the artifacts had been slowly (over thousands of years) swallowed by the ocean.

2.The second explanation is a little more complex. It is possible that the rising of the sea level may have been much faster than is commonly believed. Let us try to clarify where the idea of the long duration of the process originated from in the first place. Conclusions about it are arrived at on the basis of

• paleoclimatic data on the rise in temperatures. But we must be aware of the extent to which these data are circumstantial for assessing the speed of the given process, and of the fact that the correlation between the mean temperature and the ocean level must be non-linear. (Let us recall an experiment from the school course of physics, when a vessel with ice is being heated, but the temperature of the water only starts rising after all the ice has melted.)

• data on the glacio-eustatic fluctuations of the ocean level, the shortcomings of which we have already discussed in section "WHERE?"

Meanwhile, up to now, very little is known about the reasons for the beginning and the end of the Ice Ages. The only thing that is evident is that for the mean temperature on the planet to rise, a vast amount of energy is required. In considering the temperature charts for various regions, we can observe that the warming that marked the end of the last Ice Age was more pronounced, dramatic and durable than all the previous ones (See graphs of climate change).

In view of this, it cannot be ruled out that the warming had been caused by some event (or events) of seismic, volcanic or atmospheric nature:

"At a later time [after beginning of war between Atlanteans and Athenians] there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was similarly swallowed up by the sea and vanished..." (Tim. 25c-d)

This cataclysm could have been connected with the release of a vast amount of energy. In that case, the speed of the glacier melting and the rise of the ocean level could have been considerably higher than is widely believed now.

Another argument to back the thesis that none other than the rising of the ocean level was the catastrophe that Plato described, is that the relief of the plain in point in the west of Europe was of such character, that the rising of the ocean level by one metre could often have meant the retreat of the coastline by kilometres. I am sure that even if the submerging lasted several years, the eye-witnesses (and victims), who were on a flat plain, must have perceived it as a very fast sinking of all the land they could see, from horizon to horizon (See again map of the Celtic Shelf).

RESUME

To sum up briefly all the above-said, the hypothesis can be formulated as follows:

At the time when the last Ice Age ended, the rising level of the world ocean resulted in the submerging of a sizeable territory in the west of Europe (which is now known as the Celtic Shelf) and where the centre of a highly developed civilisation and of a powerful state was situated. This state (or a commonwealth of states) controlled the whole Atlantic coast of Europe (and maybe North Africa), a considerable part of the Mediterranean coast of Europe and Africa and, possibly, could also sail the territories along the Atlantic coasts of North Africa, North and Central America. Along with this state, there existed other states in areas with a mild climate, in particular, "Ancient Athens", which entered into a coalition with other peoples of the Mediterranean to jointly resist the expansion of Atlantis. All the artifacts of these civilisations have either been irretrievably lost or are now on the bottom of the sea, that is why they have never come to the notice of the modern archaeological science. Neither have written records of that period been preserved, and the earliest written recording of the events of that period was made at least a thousand years later, in Egypt, on the basis of the still remaining folk memory, but it was already very general in character and imprecise. It was pure chance that it came to the notice of Plato and was recorded by him in the dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Throughout the whole chain of the passing down of this narrative, distortions and inaccuracies have accumulated, which, coupled with lack of corroborating evidence from other sources and archaeological finds, has determined its present ambiguous status.

POSSIBILITIES

The hypothesis we are putting forward, like any other hypothesis, is only a concept, and needs to be corroborated by facts. Since so far no such facts, recognised as trustworthy, have been found, it is evident that this is where the main problem lies. But it seems to me that there are fairly wide possibilities for solving it, even without resorting to the analysis of legends and myths, or looking for cultural parallels, which in itself is very interesting, but can hardly bring forward irrefutable proofs.

Certain conclusions can probably be drawn on the basis of analysing the data of such scientific disciplines as comparative linguistics and anthropometry, though in order to obtain acceptably reliable findings a gigantic volume of work will have to be done and a vast amount of information processed.

And, last but not least, since the hypothesis deals with the submerging of Plato's Atlantis as the ocean level rose, the most convincing evidence (if it exists at all) can be found underwater at depths from 50 to 160 metres. As far as I know, no systematic archaeological survey of the shelf at these depths has ever been undertaken by anyone. Neither is high resolution bathymetry of the area in question available (I contacted many oceanographic centres including UK Hydrographic Office, British Oceanographic Data Centre, Plymouth Marine Laboratory, IFREMER, NOAA, Defence Mapping Agency of the USA).

I intend to organise an expedition to the above-mentioned region, which could consist of two stages:

1.A sweep bathymetry survey of the area in question, using sonar and satellite navigation system, for the purpose of charting a very high resolution map. Analysis of the data thus obtained, using different methods, including computer techniques, to identify objects that could be of artificial nature.

2.If objects of this kind are identified in the area, organisation of underwater exploration and photographing them.

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Any suggestions and comments are welcome to explor@glas.apc.org

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© 1996 Viatcheslav Y. Koudriavtsev

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Chronology and Catastrophism Review

Proceedings of The 1995 Braziers College Conference

Velikovsky 100th Birthday Memorial Meeting

Journal of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies

1995 Special Issue (Volume XVII). ISSN 0953 0053


Atlantis: New Hypothesis

Modified 11 June 1996 @ 17:25 GMT

From explor@glas.apc.org Tue Jun 11 18:05:24 1996

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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 17:21:16 +0400 (GMT+0400)

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From: Vyatcheslav Koudriavtsev


DISCLAIMER:
I make no claims for the accuracy of this information and express no personal opinion on the matter. The information was acquired off the web and from authors (owners of said pages) and other sources and described as "information" and I wanted to pass it along to anyone who might find it interesting or otherwise useful. I'd appreciate any feedback you'd care to share with me if you wish to proceed in a civilized manner. If the work is yours please email me and we can work something out.
I want to give them the credit they deserve or remove the piece.

http://www.think-aboutit.com/atlantis/AtlantisNewHypothesis.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 25, 2007, 12:15:46 am
Dang !  Gwen ,I 'm gonna be burning the midnight oil reading that post of yours  :P   but thanks   :-X

I will get around to it ,,I am familiar with most of the theory but my memory needs a refresher course.

I wonder what ever happened to Koudriavtsev


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Gwen Parker on March 25, 2007, 12:37:19 am
You're welcome, Mark! 

I don't know what happened to him, but here is his website:

http://www.imh.ru/about_en.html

And yet, you wonder why they even came up with the Celtic Shelf hypthesis if what they found at the Ampere Seamounts was so convinciing. 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 25, 2007, 01:07:22 am
I suppose he did not agree with the findings on Ampere seamount.. I guess not all Russians agree with it ,just like not every Spaniard believes the Georgeos theory ,but then....Georgeos is Brazilian isn't he ??


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Helios on March 25, 2007, 08:09:39 pm
Actually, I believe that Georgeos is Cuban, Mark.


Thank you, Helios.

That would be wonderful, as I don't really recall the pictures, at all;
that goes to show how long I have had the book......

Being on this Forum, I have found myself, as never before, to be pull-
ing out just about everything I have regarding whatever is being dis-
cussed.  And, believe me, I have so much, in spite of getting rid of
about 200 books before I moved here, almost seven years ago......

Love and Peace,
Bianca

Well, I'm afraid this is going to diappoint Qoais.  At first this weekend, I seem to have misplaced the book. Two shelves of books devoted entirely to the subject of Atlantis, and it wasn't among them.  I used to use the book all the time - not for Berlitz's text, which is, at times a bit speculative, but for the pictures and accounts he cited.

Well, the good news is that I found the book, but when I went to turn on the computer that I have the scanner hooked up to, I found out that the hard drive had failed on it. I'm afraid I will have to get a new computer before I am able to do any scanning on the internet. I have a Mac, unfortunately, it doesn't work with the scanner.

Anyway, I am looking at the pictures, and there really isn't that much to see. They are so dark and vague it's no wonder that there hasn't been much follow up on it, I hope that there are better pictures than this someplace.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 25, 2007, 09:10:11 pm


That's a shame, Helios.  I'm going to try Google to see what comes up.

Wish me luck!

Love and Peace,
Bianca


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Qoais on March 26, 2007, 10:59:03 am
Thanks for going to so much trouble guys.  Sorry about your computer Helios.  That's a bummer.  My screen just died too, and had to get a new one.  I think Riven is still the closest in theory to where the Atlanteans had their land  - all across the northern parts and down to Spain.  It would make sense as the tribes split up and there were only so many warm places to go as the ice melted.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:15:02 pm
Bianca, I just ran across this from my old thread. The original link has vanished, but luckily I managed to copy the text before it did.  There were no pictures from the site anyway.

My post:


This is more information on the Russian discoveries of Atlantis, though still no pictures:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter3_2.htm


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soviet Case for Atlantis

On the 27th of March 1979, the Soviet vessel, of oceanographic research, "Vityaz" was found at the delta of the Portugeuese river Tago. During the same night journalists from all over the country and abroad, would listen to Dr. Ascenov's scientific announcements regarding the results of their research in the Atlantic.
After the necessary introduction to the journalists, the Soviet oceanologist announced some peculiar results regarding their research within the Atlantic ocean.

" In an Area that is located 900 kilometers off the Portuguese shores, an underwater plateau was identified, with strange formations. The plateau is on top of an underwater mountain. After extensive research and based to the measurements of our scientific equipment, we have identified possible ruins of a submerged city. We clearly identified destroyed walls and gigantic stairs. And although all these items are covered with loads of marine plants, we managed to take clear photos of the area. The photos are showing symmetrical stone constructions, staircases and other remains. All this material will be sent to Moscow for further analysis".
     
this short announcement, the soviet scientists revealed to the journalists, that they could have probably found Atlantis.
The Soviet vessel continued its mission searching the oceanic floor west of Madeira.

Close to this area there is an underwater mountain called "Amber". Five years later, in 1984 when the Soviet scientists concluded their research, they announced that "Amber" mountain, once was an island that was eventually submerged without giving any more information.

In September of the following year (1985) "Pravda" reported that the Soviets had pulled out of the ocean, from a depth of 4,500 meters a strange piece of marble. This discovery was made by another Soviet vessel: "Academic Boris Petrov". This new finding, puzzled the scientists.
The marble artifact's sides were smoothened. Its color was yellowish. Its schema betrayed artificial origin. The Soviet scientists mentioned that it was definitely man-made. By chemical analysis they produced palaeochronology results, showing that this piece of marble was lying at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years (the experimental procedure unfortunately was not published).

The leading scientist of the Soviet Academy of Science, Leo Chitrov declared that he would personally head the research for the chemical analysis of the find. Since then, the Soviet Academy never announced anything regarding the results.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on March 26, 2007, 08:20:50 pm
Here is an interview with one of the Russian scientists who visited the Ampere Seamounts in the 1980's. Apparently, they have been there in 1974, 1978, 1984 and 1986. That's a lot of visits, and the information in the article seems to correspond with the recent interest in the area of the ocean just to the east. I read a quote from Dr. Maxine Asher's website where she also says that there are "four sunken cities in the area just to the west of Gibraltar."


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Searching for the Lost Continent
07/09/2003 16:45

Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores.
Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday.  This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.
Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.
Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.
Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 26, 2007, 08:35:11 pm
I had read about this and what baffles me is why we haven't heard about any expeditions in that region for 20 years now .

And what about America ?  In one article I read that an American expedition found something around Ampere in the late 70's -early 80's.Then silence.. I am suspicious of that .


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 26, 2007, 09:31:39 pm



Mark

Check our WELCOME thread.  In #109 Rocky alludes to an article.  I checked on it
but it was from a tabloid claiming the Navy found it in 1972.

I have heard many rumours to that effect over the years, and in tabloids.  But
nothing ever comes out.  Just like UFOs.  Who knows and, worse, who is going
to tell the truth.  I also heard that Custeau himself found Atlantis and was shut
up by the US Govt.  I heard that from Sylvia Brown, a very popular TV psychic,
here.

But I will go out on a limb and make a "prophecy" that I was going to put as an
answer to you in the thread by the same name.  This is as good a place as any.

For the past couple of weeks I have had a persistent, strong feeling that Atlantis
is on the verge of being found.  But, unfortunately, it may not be for me to see it.
(I am going to be 70 years old in July).

No, contrary to common belief, I am not "religious", although I have a large amount
of spirituality, instead - at least I like to think so.  Also, some very good prophets
(those that can foretell future events) are in reality not only not "religious" or even
"spiritual", but are downright nasty human beings!  But that's another story, we'll
have to discuss it in Reincarnation and Karma.........

Love and Peace,
Bianca


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 26, 2007, 10:45:24 pm
Oh WOW  ,that info from 'rocky' is awesome ,I have to get that book !! 

when I was looking for that post ,I didn't use the number of it ,,so I was looking for 'rocky' ..hmm I don't know any rocky ...lol

Ohhh  rock !  ,of course   ::) 

I have been thinking that the Americans and possibly the Russians have probably found Atlantis ,it's a worry that they would keep it secret.But if a military vessel finds it I guess they have to go through the usual procedure and wait til it can be declassified in the appropriate amount of time...Still ,you would think they could make an exception for something like Atlantis.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Desiree on March 26, 2007, 11:14:46 pm
I asked Greg Little once if he knew anything about the 1973 Jeremy Horwick Atlantis/U.S. sub incident.  I didn't expect much to it as it came from the Weekly World News (which also publicizes "Bat Boy").  To my surprise, he said he heard they actually found something, but wouldn't elaborate.

There was another incident, near the Azores that happened in 2001.  It was overlooked at the time because of September 11th and also the Cuba finding, but it sounds, if anything, even more sensational:

---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores. They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships. Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.


Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.


Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.


At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.



I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.
________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Desiree on March 26, 2007, 11:22:31 pm
If any story was covered up, it was that one, which just disappeared after it's intitial appearance. 

So we have three stories of undersea ruins in the Mid-Atantic:

the Jeremy Horwick/1973 U.S. Navy incident
the various Russian visits to the Ampere Seamounts'
the 2001 report near the Azores


All unconfirmed, and yet none totally ruled out!  Could be that we are a lot closer to finding Atlantis than we think, or that we have already found it, just that powers that be are being quiet about it.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 26, 2007, 11:54:05 pm


Hi, Desiree:

One more:  check out  in the "theory etc. category".  Toward the bottom you'll
find CHARLES BERLITZ- Ruins in the Bermuda Triangle.  When the new 'Atlantic
in the Atlantic" was put in last week, Veronica must have thought that it was
about the boats and planes disappearing, and left it there.

It's about actual finds in that area and someone actually discovered a pyramid,
even.  Well the book was written in 1984 and to my knowledge, there have been
no more discoveries of that kind.  Or have they?

In these times, wearing a tinfoil hat has often proved to be the truth.......

Mark, a "tinfoil hat" is what a conspiracy theorist figuratively wears. ('net talk).

Look, this most of all, would shake up a lot of religious people all over the world.
The Bible and the Koran wrong?  Think about it, from that angle alone, with the
current fanaticism of the fundies in this country?  There probably are other reasons,
but that's the most obvious one.  The Vatican would really declare bankruptcy!

Love and Peace,
Bianca


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 27, 2007, 12:10:31 am
That is fascinating Desiree,

I wonder if it is really true about the military trying to hinder researchers in the Atlantic ,it seems far fetched ,America is supposed to be about freedom of information and such other high ideals ,is all that just propaganda?  I understand that military concerns must be kept secret and that even knowledge of Atlantis being real maybe does concern military issues indirectly, like the morale of the public ,they don't want too much of an upheaval in our world view etc.

But It is a worry if the American government ,the guys behind the scenes in the military, are not as benign as we like to think.

I just hope that if someone goes to find Atlantis, that they will be allowed to with out threats and violence. But as that report says ,,it has already happened ...It is a worry.

Oh and if it is true then I would expect that this forum would surely be monitored by them ,I can just imagine someone employed to watch this forum couped up behind a desk in the Pentagon ,we should atleast say Hi there spy types... they gotta make a living too  :P  ,so please put in a good word for us ,,if we have to be assasinated ,I'd appreciate it being painless ,thanks  :P

I may be joking but kinda not too ,, :-X





Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on March 28, 2007, 01:07:26 am
Hi all,

Riven and I have been looking for the pictures the Russians took of the Ampere Seamounts for years, with little success. Riven even tried to contact the Russians (Metahistory) at one point, but their website isn't active and hasn't been active for years. 

Obviously, the Russians found something or else they wouldn't have repeated the journey so often, and yet, I put Atlantis a little further to the west, at the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.  All that remains is to find the volacanic mechanism required to sink a city, and I think I have found it:

ATLANTIS - FLOOD BASALT CONSTRUCTION AND COLLAPSE

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/457.jpg)

This comes from the book, the Shining Ones, which, along with Otto Muck's book, are, in my opinion two of the best books on Atlantis.

Obviously, some sort of eruption from the MAR played a part in the submergence of Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on March 28, 2007, 03:00:32 am
Hi Dhill ,
           I have been thinking along these lines for awhile ,when I came across the O'briens evidence for the Azores having submerged valleys at great depth ,I started to think this really is a new and important geological phenomenon,for obvious reasons.

 The diagram you show is basically what I think occurred.

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u167/atlantispix/platoillustration2.jpg)

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/index.html



if anyone has any evidence at all for such a large land subsidence I implore them to post it .


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 30, 2007, 06:06:58 am

More from the Russians, still kind of old:


                         A T L A N T I S   W I L L   B E   F O U N D

5/26/2003

Russian researchers have held the Second Congress of Explorers in Moscow.

Has legenday Atlantis ever existed?  Russian explorers and researchers have recently held a meeting in Moscow in order to discuss the material about the
legendary continent and share their opinions with each other.  Alexander Veronin,
director of the Russian Association for studying Atlantis' problems, stated at the meeting, that Atlantis would be found.  Alexander Veronin added that various findings in different parts of the planet proved the certainty of finding the Lost
Continent.

Remains of the "big land" have been found in the water area of the Brazilian island of Sao Paulo; a royal temple of thousands of years old has been found in the sea.
Voronin believes that such findings in different parts of the planed testify to the existence of a "central kindom and numerous islands, on which ten Atlas brothers
lived".

Partecipants oof the meeting stated that there had been a lot of evidence collected to prove the existence of Atlantis.  Researchers believe that one has to continue the quest, looking for other discoveries.  As far as the significance of the lost continent existence, is concerned, Alexander Gorodnisky, a member of the Russian
Academy of science, said that the discovery of Atlantis might change the concept of nature and life devolopment on Earth.  Gorodnisky believes the proved existence of supreme civilizations in the past will make the up-to-date Darwinist society recon-
sider its view.  Alexander Gorodnisky  has been on several expeditions to the places
where Atlantis allegedly existed.  He still hopes to organize a target mission in order
to study the problem in detail.  "I am sure that this issue is extremely complicated and important, so one has to deal with it seriously, on a serious scientific level",
Gorodnisky was quoted as saying.

Read the original in Russian:

http://science.pravda.ru/science/2003/6/18/10696_atlantida.html

(TRANSLATED BY: Dmitry Sudakov - PRAVDA.RU)


www.wintersteel.homestead.com/Atlantis.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 30, 2007, 06:16:46 am


dhill:


You article in post #20 of this thread follows this at:

www.wintersteel.homestead.com/Atlantis.html

Mine is dated 5/26/2003, yours 07/09/2003.  Both are almost four years old and
there is no update.

I guess funding is a problem all over the world!!!

Love and Peace,
Bianca

I suppose Professor Gorodnosky couldn't come up with the needed $200,000.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 30, 2007, 06:56:15 am


Still, one wonders why the accidental findings of the ACADEMICIAN PETROVSKY
in 1974 are not mentioned.



Here is what Murray Hope says about it in her book:"Atlantis, Myth or Reality":

 
             T H E   A C A D E M I C I A N   P E T R O V S K Y   P H O T O G R A P H S

I was first informed of the Soviet expedition by the late Egerton Sykes, with whom I frequently corresponded.  He used to run two small magazines, called URANUS and
ATLANTIS, in which he regularly reported his ongoing correspondence with Professor
Nicolai Zhirov, whose book ATLANTIS (1964) dealt with the historical and geological
material available on the subject, with special attention to its Atlantic location: and
V. Bryusov, who favours the 'single source' theory regarding the beginning of civili-
zation (Atlantis).

The Soviet deep-sea expedition that took place early in 1974 was carried out by the ACADEMICIAN PETROVSKY, a Soviet research ship engaged in photographing the sea floor in the region of the Horseshoe Archipelago.

This is a U-shaped group of underwater mountains some 300 miles (483 kilometers)
west of Gibraltar in the same area that Captain Robson's island had appeared and
disappeared with equal rapidity.(See Charles Berlitz "Atlantis, the Eighth Continent)
Berlitz quotes from "The Atlantic Floor" by Heezen, Thorpe and Young:

"Some of them, such as the underwater mountains Ampere and Josephine, rise to a depth of less than 100 fathoms...Photographs taken of the surface of these mountains show cliffs, traces of ripples and isolated living corals.  The underwater mountains of the northern half of the Horseshoe, which have not yet been properly studied, stretch from west to east.  The southern half of the group apparently resembes volcanic cones, while for the northern half tectonic changes played an important role."

In the past expeditions to this area, notably from the Lamont Geological Observato-
ry, had proven unsuccessful, while Dr. Maurice Ewing was heard to complain that after spending thirteen years studying the mid-Atlantic Ridge, he found no traces of
sunken cities.

It should be noted at this point that the crew of the PETROVSKY were not searching
for remnants of Atlantis, nor had they any plans for doing so, although it would seem that they produced the first photographs ever taken of the legenday island
continent.

At first, they were unaware that some of the many photographs they took revealed
archaeological relics.  The aim and results of the expedition were summarized by M.
Barinov and appeared in the Soviet publication "Zananie-Sila" #8, in 1979, at the time when details of the discovery also found their way into the world press. 





Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 30, 2007, 07:24:13 am



THE ACADEMICIAN PETROVSKY PHOTOGRAPHS                                                        continued




When the photographs taken by the ACADEMICIAN PETROVSKY were developed, the
Ampere Seamount, which extends from a depth os 10,000 (3,048 metres) to within
20 feet (6 metres) of the surface, proved to be full of surprises.  Photographer Mara-
kuyev commented:

"While still on the expedition, when I had developed the photographs and made the first prints, I realized that I never had seen anything like this before.  The Insti-
tute of Oceanography of the USSR has a huge archive of underwater photographs
that have been taken on countless expeditions over many years in all parts of the world's oceans.  We also have copies of many thousands of photographs taken by our American colleagues.  Nowhere have I seen anything so close to traces of the life and activity of man in places which could once have been dry land"

But what did these amazing revelations consist of?  Although the "Znanie-Sila"
saw fit to release some information, I am sceptical whether this constitutes the entire find, as the Russians do have a tendency to keep certain facts to themselves.
However, here is the information they did decide to share with us:

"On the first photograph we can see this wall on the left side of the photograph. 
Stone blocks on the upper edge of the mass are clearly visible....Taking into account
the foreshortening of the photograph and the height of the wall, it is curious to examine more closely the strip of vertical masonry.  Although the lens was pointing almost vertically downwards, areas of masonry can be seen quite clearly.  One can count five such areas,and if one takes into account the deformation of scale caused by the nearness of the lens to the object,one may suggest that the masonry blocks
of the wall is about 75 centimeters [29.5 inches].  The masonry blocks are clearly visible on both sides of the wall.  Seaweed is visible on all the photographs, thick, reddish brown in color....

"The third photograph is from another series taken at the summit of Ampere Sea-
mount.  An area over which lava has flowed can be seen on it and it appears to de-
scend by three steps.  If one counts the upper and barely visible lower edges....in all we can see five steps.  They are broken down, of course, and overgrown with
glass-like sponges."

Copies of the photographs are reproduced in Berlitz's book ATLANTIS, the Eighth
Continent", for those who want to study them.  In my opinion the reproductions are too indistinct for the layperson to make much of, although, no doubt, the originals, if
studied with appropriate instruments, are highly informative. 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on March 30, 2007, 07:52:50 am


THE ACADEMICIAN PRETROVSKY PHOTOGRAPHS                                       continued



FROM

ATLANTIS
Myth or Reality

Murry Hope




The fact that such a recognized authority as Dr. Maurice Ewing has failed to find any evidence of a sunken civilization in the Atlantic, whereas the Soviet ship, purportedly
on a scientific mission, in no way concerned with the Atlantis  project, should come upon such exciting evidence as though by accident, has always proved a thorn in the
side of both sceptics and believers.

There is an answer, however,which has been supplied to us by Parapsychology.It is called the "Experiment Effect", which maintains that the experimenter or researcher who believes in something is more likely to find evidence to support that belief than
the skeptic, whose searches are orientated towards disproving the proposition or theory in question.  In other words, the human mind erects its own barriers, albeit subconsciously, and stays well within their area of reference.  This, in turn, sets up a quality of PK (Psychokinetic Energy) that automatically blocks people from finding evidence to prove what they do not believe in, either by veering them in the wrong direction, or causing their experiments to produce the answers THEY WANT.  Likewise with people who believe a particular theory to be true, whose PK will tend to point them in the direction of the evidence for which they are seeking.  Einstein probably observed this principle in action, during his many years as a physicist, which, no doubt, prompted his famous comment that I quoted earlier in this chapter:

Einstein was once asked "How are discoveries made?", to which he replied:

"WHEN ALL THE SCIENTISTS PRESENT HAVE AGREED THAT SOMETHING IS IMPOSSI-
BLE, ONE ARRIVES LATE FOR THEIR MEETING AND SOLVES THE IMPOSSIBLE."

The inference is that the majority of people, and that includes scientists, are conditioned [I prefer the term "programmed"] by the collective, and it takes a brave
man or woman to break from that group-thinking or, as Jung would say, individuate.

Another famous saying of Einstein's was IMAGINATION IS GREATER THAN KNOWLEDGE", which brings us back full circle to Atlantis.






Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 13, 2007, 05:39:54 pm
That book by Zhirov, http://www.amazon.com/Atlantis-Atlantology-Problems-N-Zhirov/dp/0898755913

I wonder if anyone knows where I could get it online using PayPal. Amazon.com doesn't use PayPal unfortunately.

I noticed dhills review on Amazon  :)


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Rebecca on April 13, 2007, 10:27:43 pm
Here you are, Mark. This website has the book in stock and also uses Paypal:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=30843895&SearchEngine=ya&SearchTerm=30843895&Type=PI&Category=Books&dcaid=17194

There is also a 10% discount if this is the first order you placed there.  Enjoy.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 14, 2007, 03:40:24 pm
Thank you Rebecca , but unfortunately that site seems to only ship within America or Canada.

You had my hopes up for a second ,got all excited  ,lol :D

That's the only down side to living in Australia ....'It's the ass end of the world'.  Our own Prime Minister once said that !!  ::)


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Majeston on April 14, 2007, 04:13:19 pm
Welcome to Whoop Whoop huh Mark?


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 14, 2007, 05:04:18 pm
Yeah Maj,   ;D especially here in Perth ,but it's getting better


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 22, 2007, 07:24:46 pm
I have finally managed to order that book by Zhirov that Dhill so recommends .I can't wait for it to arrive .


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Rebecca on April 22, 2007, 10:41:22 pm
I was about to suggest Ebay as they take Paypal and accept orders from all over the world, but it was not in stock, last I checked.

Where did you find it at? 

I wouldn't be so sure about the science in there.  I see the book is thrity years old and the science is probably outdated. 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Rebecca on April 22, 2007, 10:46:48 pm
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0898755913.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V44679042_SS500_.jpg)

Zhirov was a chemist by trade and a leading Soviet Atlantologist. The book was written between 1959-63. New data was added for this English edition. Seismics, gravimetrics, climatology, paleobotanical data, geomorphology, plate tectonics, turbidity data, bottom current patterns, submarine erosion and geological data separate this book from most of the rest of the Atlantology field. Cites 825 separate sources in 34 pages of references - Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, German, English, Latin...

Make that nearly fifty years old.  I don't think the science in it will be very up to date. The book says that new data was added, when did Zhirov die anyway?


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 23, 2007, 01:36:59 am
I just checked the site  I got it from ,Fishpond.com.nz  ...!! NZ !!   omg  New Zealand actually do make a contribution to the world in some way .  :P  :P  We just beat them in the Cricket ,they are ok   ;D  :P      http://www.fishpond.co.nz/

Yeah you are right Rebecca ,I will be wary of the science in there ,but frankly I will savour every word if he is actually trying to be scientific. You know what the subject of Atlantis is like I assume- Not known for being very scientific. So I'll take what I can get.

Scientific works that argue for a real Atlantis are as rare as hens teeth.

I should be able to salvage something from it. Pardon the pun.

Oh ,and the damn thing cost me $70  !!! :o


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 07:23:47 pm


MORE ON THE RUSSIANS FROM:

Mysteries of Atlantis,
By Edgar Evans Cayce
(E.C.'s Son)



"...........In the late 1970s, the Soviets announced that they had found
the ruins of Atlantis.  According to an article by Oleg Sulin in SOVIET
LIFE in September 1980, the Soviet research vessel MOSKOVSKY UNI-
VERSITET took underwater photographs on the Ampere seamount of
what appeared to be giant staircases.

Interpretations of the photographs varied from Atlantean ruins to natural
formations.  A year later, Dr. Andrei Aksyonov, deputy director of the
Shirsov Institute of Oceanography, announced to the press (in an Asso-
ciate Press story in the VIRGINIAN-PILOT on Friday, June 26th, 1981) that
more recent photographs were now believed to be of natural formations,
and that the search for Atlantis in this area had been discontinued.

Considering the catastrophic destruction of Atlantis, it may be too much
to hope for recognizable buildings in this volcanically active area.



Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 07:35:49 pm




                                                                                                 continued



Still, the Soviets and scientists in Eastern European countries have
often taken Atlantis more seriously than the Americans have. 

Zdenek Kukal, a skeptical Czech geologist, considered the possibility
that the current islands of the mid-Atlantic ridge are the remains of
Atlantis.

All the islands on the ridge are extremely volcanic and unstable.  The
Azores, located west of Spain, are one of the most likely locations for
Atlantis. All lie on an extensive submarine plateau that has a depth of
a little more than a mile and an area of about 50,000 square miles.

The Azores are an active site of seafloor spreading and have substantial
earthquake and volcanic activity.  There are many flat-topped submarine
peaks in the area.  Of special interest is a major gravity anomaly, indica-
ting an excess of mass under the Azores plateau.

Also intriguing is the presence of numerous stone pebbles of non-local
origin; granite, sandstone, limestone and other, with no good explanation
of how they got there.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 07:45:39 pm




                                                                                                         continued



The entire plateau is older than the Miocene ( a geological period that
ended roughly 7 million years ago), and must have started forming when
the Atlantic Ocean began expanding in the Cretaceous period, which en-
ded roughly 65 million years ago. 

Substantial parts of the plateau were once above water and there has
been a great deal of uplift and dowfaulting in the past.

Kukal, however, like most other geologists, does not accept the idea of
recent catastrophes.  He agrees that most of the Atlantic islands, includ-
ing the larger ones, were formed in relatively short and sporadic periods
of volcanic activity, separated by much longer periods of quiescence.  But
he feels it is unlikely that the Azores plateau could have been above water
to any great degree in 10,000 BC.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 07:53:48 pm




                                                                                                continued



One of the most intriguing pieces of evidence was published by R.W. Kolbe,
a Swedish geologist, in 1957.  Kolbe studied cores drilled at a depth of about
two miles in the mid-Atlantic ridge between the Caribbean and North Africa,
in what might have been the southern portion of Atlantis.

He reported in SCIENCE finds of exclusively freshwater plants (diatoms) in
portions of the cores.  He concluded, in part, that this portion of the mid-
Atlantic ridge was once above sea level and that the diatoms had originated
in a fresh water lake.

Kolbe discusses Atlantis as a serious proposition.  He cites another geologist,
Rene Malaise, who felt that parts of the mid-Atlantic ridge must have existed
as large islands up to the end of the last ice age or later and were submerged
in early historical times.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 08:01:15 pm




                                                                                        continued


Kolbe's finds and similar discoveries led skeptics to try to explain
them away.

The two main explantions were wind-blown dust and undersea "turbidity
currents that carried material from continental rivers.  Many geologists
favour these alternative explanations.

For example, J.K. Rigby and L.H. Burckle, in a 1958 SCIENCE article, pre-
ferred the turbidity current explanation; others have presented evidence
that windblown sand might explain deep-sea sand far from land.

Kolbe answered these criticisms by pointing out that either mechanisms
would likely lead to mixtures of freshwater and oceanic diatoms, whereas
he found a layer of pure freshwater diatoms.

Still, the debate continues - often with much heat, but on a scientific,
not an occult level.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on May 06, 2007, 08:11:33 pm




                                                                                                      continued



The most extensive serious study of the possibility of Atlantis was
published by Soviet scientist N. Zhirov in 1970.

Zhirov discusses the great complexity of the geology of the mid-
Atlantic ridge, citing over 800 references and faulting American geo-
logists for being unaware of foreign publications, especially the Soviet
ones!

It is Zhirov's contention that the freshwater diatoms, deep-sea pebbles
and sand and eroded terraces on the Mid-Atlantic ridge are true anomalies,
suggesting that large parts of the ridge were once above water.

Whether Zhirov is right awaits further evidence, but he is certainly more
thorough than his critics.



FROM


MYSTERIES OF ATLANTIS

By Edger Evans Cayce





A new, updated MYSTERIES OF ATLANTIS is being published any day
now and it will be interesting to see if any further details have come
from Russia's investigation of Atlantis.

Bianca

 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on June 15, 2007, 12:31:43 am
Hi Bianca,

This section contains one of the pictures from the Russian expeditions to the Ampere Seamounts.  I understand that those pictures are missing from your copy of the Berlitz book:

 
   
   
 
   
3.2 The Discovery of the Russians

It is suggested that Atlantis did not sink into the sea but rather was “drowned” by the ocean due to the rising waters brought about by the melting of the glacial ice. There is an implication that the present small islands where Atlantis once existed might be found on seamounts, plateaus and marine valleys surrounding it and in underwater traces of buildings or walls indicating the existence of an advance culture in the past. Russian underwater research provided certain measure of corroboration for this theory.

Russia , although far from the Atlantic Ocean maintained interest in the Atlantic and in the tradition of the lost continent of Atlantis. An expedition carried out by the Academician Petrovsky, a Russian research ship, photographed seafloor topography and archaeological relics where legendary Atlantis was supposedly located. The aim and the result of the expedition, which took place in the early part of 1974, was summarized by Barinova and appeared in Znanie-Sila (no.8, 1979).

On board the ship were geologists, biologists and an underwater photograph specialist named Ivanovich Marakuev who studied the sandbanks of Mediterranean Sea shallow waters and of the Atlantic Ocean not far from the Northwest Africa . It is the origin, structure and population of the sandbanks, the peaks of underwater mountains that are the prime scientific interest of those specialists.

(http://www.keystonecode.net/images/picsmat/research6_clip_image002.gif)

Photos taken at the Horse Archipelago (300 miles west of Gibraltar ) especially at the summit of Ampere Seamount, an underwater plateau that was thrust upwards from a depth of 10,000 ft. to 200 ft. below the sea level showed unexpected features. These pictures show masonry on an upper edge of a wall. It is about 1.5 meters high and slightly longer in length. Its width is approximately 75 centimeters (Berlitz, 1984).

The Russian discovery at the Ampere Seamount was not published for several years until worldwide publicity came in 1978 via an interview of Prof. Andrei Aksyonov, then the deputy director of the Institute of Oceanography of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Prof. Aksyonov while cautious on the Atlantean identification of the ruins believed that the objects in the picture once stood on the surface of the land . An AP release issued by Alexander Nesterenko, then the director of the Fleet Department of the Institute of Oceanography , confirmed the report that the Russian research ship has taken pictures of “ what might be ruins” but denied reports that Vityaz, another research ship was investigating the same site. (See Image 4) 
 
http://www.keystonecode.net/research8.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on June 29, 2007, 08:51:16 am



DHill;

I am sorry I missed this post.  Yes, the underwater pictures fell off my copy of the book and who
knows what became of them.

Thank you for posting your copy's of them here.  Too bad that they are awfully hard to 'read'.


Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on June 29, 2007, 09:14:05 am


DHill,

As you know, unfortunately, your thread AN ATLANTIC - BASED ATLANTIS was nastily hijacked by
the 'resident TROLL'. 

I managed to save your information on LYBIAN DESERT GLASS in a new section in WARFARE IN THE
ANCIENT WORLD titled "Lybian Desert Glass".


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1760.msg17231.html#msg17231


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on June 30, 2007, 07:15:39 am



DHill;

I am sorry I missed this post.  Yes, the underwater pictures fell off my copy of the book and who
knows what became of them.

Thank you for posting your copy's of them here.  Too bad that they are awfully hard to 'read'.


Love and Peace,
b

Hi Bianca,

Thanks for saving the info on Libyan glass, it is very informative and they are the best pictures of the glass that I have come across.

The pictures are really grainy (you aren't missing much, they were taken during the early 70s, underwater, with poor lighting).  I understand there were only eight of them, and I have seen, all told, about three or four of them, none of whom are very convincing.  Hopefully, someone will return to the site someday and take some better ones!


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: dhill757 on June 30, 2007, 07:18:57 am
I came across this upon the Russians' research into Atlantis.  I printed it in my own thread but I will print it here, too, so that it doesn't get lost. The rest of the page is only of general interest, but it supplies some interesting details about Zhirhov and the Russians expeditions to the Ampere Seamounts.

Spain and Portugal

            The Ancient Mediterranean Research Association held an important Congress in Cadiz, Spain in 1973. Maxine Asher, an archaeologist and explorer of underwater cities off the coast of Spain, organized the event as described in the March 1973 issue of Atlantis in Sykes’ article, The Cadiz Congress Of 1973.
            In 1979, two Soviet professors Dr. A.A. Aksyenov of the Oceanographic Institute and Dr. Marcello Vasconelos of the Fishery Research Institute announced a remarkable discovery made by a recent expedition on the Ampere Seamount between Madeira and the Portuguese-Spanish coast. The event was described in the May and November 1979 issues of New World Antiquity in Russian Discoveries On The Ampere Seamount by Egerton Sykes and Russian Under Sea Discoveries On Atlantis by Mr. Barinov. The research vessel Kurtachov took eight undersea photographs showing lines of brick or stone walls plus fragments of a wide flight of steps. The pictures were taken from the Horseshoe archipelago that is linked with the islands of Madeira, Porto Santo, and Dezerta, and with the Gettysburg bank. Sykes stated that the ruins could not be part of Atlantis but may be contemporary. An Atlantean site would more likely be found a mile or so south of the triangle formed by Santa Maria, St. Miguel, and the Formigas Rocks, at the eastern extremity of the Azores. He believed the finds to be part of the European African continental shelf and probably submerged about 6000 BC.

ZHIROV

            Dr. N. Th. Zhirov was a personal friend of Sykes for over twenty years. Unfortunately, Zhirov suffered from injuries received in World War II and never got out of Russia actually to see the Atlantic Ocean about which he wrote so much. Zhirov quoted early Russian classical sources; thus, he was an outstanding contributor to the study of Atlantis. He was very scientific and absolutely objective, and set a standard for Russian Atlantology. Zhirov died in December 1970 in Moscow. His obituary was published in the January 1971 issue of Atlantis.

Russians and Atlantis

            The earliest original work on Atlantis was written by A.S. Norov and published in 1854 in Russian and German. In 1917, appeared one of the most serious works by V. Bryusov, the famous Russian poet, who was engaged in the scientific study of the problem until his death. He gave all of the data available as evidence that Atlantis was the cradle of the majority of subsequent civilizations. In the 1930’s, there was considerable interest in the problem with articles in small popular science brochures and the publication of B.L. Bogaevsky, a prominent Soviet historian, who dismissed the lost continent. Almost twenty-five years followed, in which not a single work on the subject appeared in the USSR. Impetus was given in 1954 by E. Andreeva’s most popular science book about Atlantis, Easter Island, and Sannikov’s land, in which she used scientific geological and oceanographic data to demonstrate the undoubted reality of Atlantis.
            In 1963, Sykes received a Christmas card from Zhirov which had postage stamps issued in Russia commemorating two well known scientists who were also famous Atlantologists — Vladimir Obzuchev, Member of the Academy 1863-1956, and Valery Brussov, the famous poet and Atlantologist.

Some Of Zhirov’s Writings

            In 1957, Zhirov published Atlantis in Moscow, a most informative book on Atlantis with a bibliography that included no fewer than eighty references in Russian, plus sixty references in other languages. The book was only available in Russian. Zhirov was an active contributor to Atlantis journal. In the November 1957 issue of Atlantis, Sykes published A Letter From Dr. Zhirov & A Short Contents Of The Book Atlantis, and in the September 1958 issue of Atlantis, An Open Letter From Dr. Zhirov To All Atlantologists was published.
            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov, who was always looking for evidence that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was once above sea level, reported in An Indisputable Demonstration Of The Great Subsidence Of The Mid-Atlantic Ridge,that N.N. Gorskiy’s book The Secrets of the Ocean, Moscow, 1960, showed two photographs of shallow water corals grown on rock, dredged up from the Mid Atlantic ridge from a depth of twenty-five-hundred meters by the Soviet oceanographic expedition ship Mikhail Lomonossov. No Carbon-14 dates available.            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov wrote A Critical Analysis Of The Material Culture Of Plato’s Atlantis in which Plato mentions iron, gold, silver, copper, tin, orichalcum (a copper alloy?), and the antiseismic architecture of Egypt and Mesopotamia.
            On April 22, 1964, Dr. Zhirov’s The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis was read to the Leningrad House of the Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours. The event was reported in the October 1964 issue of Atlantis in an article titled Atlantological News From The USSR.
            Zhirov’s Atlantida was published in 1964 by the State Publishing House of Moscow. The preface was written by the editor, Professor Demetrius G. Panow, Doctor of Geological Sciences. The book was published in Romanian in 1967, while Sykes ranted impatiently that no copies were available in French and English. In the book, Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents, structure of mountains and submarine ridges, seismic processes, cosmological influences, tectonic origins, and the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna, and changes produced by the Gulf Stream. The accumulated evidence indicated that a land mass could have existed in the Atlantic. If this view could be proved, it would lead to a complete reversal of the views generally held concerning the migration and development of man.
            Atlantis, Atlantology: Basic Problems was published in Moscow in 1970. At the time, this book was the most extensive attempt to produce geological and geographical proof that Atlantis really existed. The great complexity of the geology of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is discussed. There was a thirty-five page bibliography of eight-hundred references. Sykes owned this book in three languages. The book was reviewed in the November 1971 issue of New World Antiquity.


http://www.seachild.net/new232932.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on June 30, 2007, 08:16:11 am



Thank you, DHill.  As usual, great info!

Too bad the Russians have not lost their habit of secretiveness.....

Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 08:57:29 pm



I ran into this while pursuing somethig else:





                                           Russia Atlantis information




This is a Letter sent to Dean Clarke BLS of  http://Atlantisite.com  or A.R.J

From the Russian Atlantology Researcher -Alexander Voronin  President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA) 

site about the Russia interest http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10080_atlantis.html 


       

The I letter I have put on line with the help of  A. Voronin was to show what in Russia they have noted about and working on the furthering of public information on the Atlantis proofs and or issues within their own country, and in a friendly show of support to the Old World views of Atlantis compared to our New World views this has been put online for those to review about new leads in Atlantis Research.

This communication has been occurring for 2 years for this letter to be received due to limited translation access but finally the big story from Russia has come about the 3 to 4 centuries of Russian interest about the Atlantis Myth and Legend or potential real history.

Most do not know that in Great Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, and North Africa great works written about Atlantis have been ongoing for at least 4 to 3 Centuries and now here is the Russian version of what they have contributed to this subject.

I do not mean to not include works of Greece, Crete, Egypt, Israel, Middle East, Asia Minor, or Persia as not monumental in historical work about Atlantis they have all indeed given extremely important parameters in how, when, why, and where questions i.e. to look for that lost realm.

The information on Atlantis all should know involve some of the rarest resource information in the world about that subject for many reasons. The main one is that when speaking about something that occurred say from 100,000 to 600 BC of a completely lost Continent or scattered to almost non-recognition it has taken 100 years of archaeology just to even establish any plausibility and with out those researcher plugging away we all would be up in arms and never even ask the question of Atlantis with our heads in the sand.

Proof is not in the proving of the said existence of Atlantis as much as it is the journey of the search of its possibility until all information is in or final to establish whether or not it did exist. This is why skeptics are welcomed along with other researchers because any question can be a good question usually not wasted completely or just cast to the side.

Although the information below maybe in some limited cases controversial about the Governments of both USA and Russia having a little to much to not say about the subject of Atlantis yet seemingly to be keenly interested about the subject when it literally shows up in artifacts, yet in their posture remains low profile to the public.

I think the letter is somewhat warranted in some of those controversial comments by Voronin in light of past history of many Governments reactions ranging from overly cool to hostile reactions about the subject of Atlantis as considered to many atlantologist a fairly irrational response in light of goofy propaganda attempts they sometimes make when something big for historical purposes is found.

Remember if you control the worlds history you control the world is maybe what they think but does not sound like a very spiritual credo to me!

Truth is a funny thing it depends on how it is used and how it is to help the world essentially, but if the world has dumb people in powerful positions no one do I think could get out of the low IQ tele-garbage that they constantly hit the airwaves with of incorrect propaganda on behalf of any of the worlds true history of ancient man.

Maybe Edgar Cayce,  E.P.Blavatskaya, Rudolph Stiener, E. Sykes, Dr. Zhirov and Heinrich Schlimann beat all the world to this historical point for a spiritual reason?                         

 The carpet rug my friends on the floor is lumpy with weird arti-facts underneath it; do not let them tell you ever otherwise, less it be some others power and ego alone that tells you otherwise!

Also, the website does not disagree nor agree with any opinions put forward in the letter below but we do feel it is considered highly important information about Atlantis research and indebted to A. Voronin as well done research.                         

The World of Atlantology is exceedingly proud!


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 08:59:16 pm






Dear   Dean!

                                        I send to you material for publication.

                                        With best regards
                                        Voronin Alex.






                Alexander Voronin



    The development of Russian atlantology and the problem of Atlantis






    First about atlantology as a science  the famous Russian scientist and atlantologist Nikolay Feodosyevich Zhirov spoke (1903-1970). In 1964 his famous book “Atlantis. The major problems of atlantology” was published where the scientist formulated it’s principles and methods. According to his words atlantology as a science may be considered as one of the parts of biogeography of the modern Quarternary period (antropogen) of geological history of Earth and of that very part of it which dates chronologically to the time of formation of homo sapiens, time spontaneously preceding to our historical epoch starting from the last glaciery.

    Studying this problem it is necessary to take into account a lot of factors: geological, paleobiological, comparative mythology. The task of scientific atlantology, as N.F. Zhirov writes to reveal the truth which is contained in different historical sources and myths, and among them in Plato’s story, and to find the corroborative facts and thoughts in the dataset received from different scientific disciplines. For the solution of these tasks atlantology attracts widely a lot of sciences: geology, archeology, oceanology, history, astronomy, astrophysics, antropology, etnography, mathematics, geophysics, volcanology and a lot of others.

    Russian atlantology starts from the middle of 18th century. Lomonosov at first mentions Atlantis in his works “The letter about earthquakes” (Spb.1756) and “The word of birth of the metals from the shaking of the earth” (Spb.1757). In 1760-1761 Lomonosov started a big epic poem “Peter the Great”. There he describes the march of Peter to the north. The great poet used northern Russian, Cholmogor and Solovetsk chronicles. One of the finest passages in poem- the description of Neptune palace in the northern waters. May be, Lomonosov knew some features of ancient Hyperborean continent in Northern ocean? He places the chambers and the throne of tsar in the valley between high stony mountains which resemble so much to the famous relief of the capital of Atlantis!

    The idea of ancient culture was originally developed by the other famous Russian poet Vasiliy Kapnist (1758-1823) in “Short search about hyperboreans” (1815). In the article Kapnist puts a question about origin of Slavs and about ancient sources of Russian art and poetry. He thought that the ancestors of Slavs were Hyperboreans and the last ones in their turn borrowed all their scientific and technical achievements, inventions, knowledge from Atlanteans.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:00:17 pm






  Russian poets Nikolay Kluev and Alexander Block describe underwater Diamond Ice City- spiritual center of Russian Old Belief and also the symbolic ascent to snowy mountains in the North searching for God. The rich folklore tradition, legends of many nations of Europe and Asia tell about northern Aryan Motherland where Golden Age reigned.

    In Russia there was their own Atlantis- White Waters. White Waters- concealed Russian idea, which was met at old-believers, wanderers, holy country in the East, the place of fulfillment of cherished human wishes where the holy wise and just men live who kept thoroughly spiritual knowledge and true faith.

    Slavic nations of Ancient Rus have their own giants. Most likely, Rus was one of the northern colonies and lands of Hyperborea- Atlantis. The image of Sviatogor- the hero of Russian bylinas, the giant-bogatyr is provided with the same features as well as ancient Greek Atlant. In one of bylinas Sviatogor is trying to raise the bag with “the strength of the Earth” but sinks himself up to his knees into Earth. Zlatogorka, the daughter of Sviatogor lives somewhere behind the sea in Latyn (Altyn, Alatyr) kingdom, which is understood as Atlantis. Exactly Slavic legends tell us about the perished once great ancient land of Veles- Sviatogor- Dazhbog.

    In the first half of 19th century Avraam Norov made an attempt of scientific search of Atlantis in Mediterranean region resting upon  Arabian and Greek sources difficult of access.

    The greatest role in creation of occult legend about Atlantis was played by our fellow Atlantis patriot E.P.Blavatskaya whose monumental works “Disrobed Isis” (1877) and “Secret Doctrine” (1888) promoted further studying and spreading of esoteric heritage, including clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, channeling which gave to the world new data about island of Poseidonis.

    V.Briusov, K.Balmont, M.Menshikov, A.Bragin everybody by their own way describe the searches of Atlantis and even finds of this mysterious land. The anthology for the first time publishes the unknown still atlantological biographies of Vasily Kapnist (1758-1823), Avraam Norov (1795-1869), Helen Blavatskaya (1831-1891), Michail Menshikov (1859-1918), Vladimir Bogachev (1881-1965), Ignatius Donnelly (1831-1901) and other leading atlantologists doing justice to brave flight of thought and great courage to speak with scientific language about mythical country.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:01:16 pm





 In Soviet times in 1964 the capital work of N. Zhirov “Atlantis.The major problems of atlantology” was published.


Till recent time  the book of Ignatius Donnelly “Atlantis. The antediluvian world” (1882) was considered the most fundamental. Russian scientist and atlantologist gathered great amount of material which nobody could gather before him. Zhirov analyzes thoroughly the legend of Plato about Atlantis basing on the newest data in geology, oceanology and also on the latest researches of Atlantic bottom. The scientist believes in Atlantis of the bronze epoch, in developed civilization on the big vanished island in Atlantic ocean.

    According to Zhirov, Atlantis included the area of North-Atlantic ridge right up to Romansh gutter including Azores plateau. Atlantis presented by itself a long continent consisting of three major parts: northern island on the base of Azores plateau- Poseidonida or Azorida, southern island of Antilia and Equatorial archipelago, the remains of which are the rocks of the island of San-Paulu. The scientist thought that the reason of destruction of Atlantis was natural tectonic process.

    The main inundation of Atlantis by this way consisted of two stages. The first apparently took place between 13 and 10 millenniums B.C., and the second, the most considerable,- between 9000 and 8000 B.C. The last remains of once vast territory of Atlantis sank already in 6 cent. B.C.

    In the last decades a great attention to the questions of Atlantis was paid by the scientist and writer, one of the eminent Russian atlantologists Vladimir Scherbakov. Scherbakov thinks that there existed two Atlanticas in different geographical regions: the first one ( in fact Atlantis of Plato)- in Atlantic, and the second one- Eastern Atlantis- included in itself the most ancient cities of Asia Minor and Mediterranean. The scientist affirms that Eastern Atlantis was founded by migrants from metropoly (Atlantis of Plato) before world catastrophe.

    Exactly from these regions: Frakia and Asia Minor went to their future Motherland the ancestors of European nations, among them the ancestors of  Slavs and Germans who created Asgard. The eastern path of veneds-atlanteans is described in the book of Scherbakov “Asgard- the city of gods” (1991).


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:03:51 pm






   V.Scherbakov identified the ruins of ancient temples and buildings of Parphia epoch in Kopetdag (present Turkmenistan) with chambers of Asgard. In “Senior Edda” it is said about celestial city of Asgard and in “Earthly Circle” Snorry Sturluson writes about earthly Asgard, the dwelling of the gods-  ases.

    In May 1989 TASS published an official report about discovery by the scientist of Asgard, the city of Scandinavian gods. For this discovery Scherbakov was elected an academician of humanities department of International academy of informatisation and was awarded with the big silver medal. For working out of the topic of Asgard and for the book “Searching for Atlantis” (1986) created jointly with Jack-Yve Cousteau the scientist was confered on the degree of Doctor of Philosophy (Brusseles).

    Member of Russian Academy of cosmonautics of K.E. Tsiolkovsky, the State prize of USSR winner Alim Voitsechovsky is an author of several books and brochures, devoted to the problems of world and home cosmonautics and atlantology. In the book “The Mysteries of Atlantis” (2000) Voitsechovsky stated his own vision of the destruction of Atlantis. The cosmic body which accompanied Galley comet, or “knocked out” by it from the points of Lagrange in the system “Earth- Moon”, with diameter of some kilometers and weight of more than hundred millions tons, moving with the speed about 30 km/sec, collided with Earth in the region of notorious Bermuda triangle. It happened in 11542 B.C. In the result of global cataclysm the high- developed human civilization which Plato called “Atlantis”, was wiped off the face of the earth.

    The author of the present article is occupied with the problem of Atlantis for many years. In my program work “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” (“Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”, 1999, 2001-2002, issues 1-3) I managed to choose from the great amount of the myths, legends such that point directly to Atlantis and other civilizations. If the legend about Atlantis, told by Plato, existed, it had to be come down from father to son in the form of genealogical schemes, behind which the historical reality and memory of humanity are standing, hidden in the deepest layers of “collective unconscious”.

Practically oral transmission of information is much more reliable than written one, because the language may change. Any priest could tell about this surprising civilization so that he could be understood in any country of the world, no matter what language in this time people used. That’s why the knowledge was transmitted through secret societies, religious cults and, surely, through myths and legends. So, it was the most ancient civilization on Earth, the real name of which only Initiated know.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:05:05 pm






Valuable source for research of Atlantis problems is genealogical and structural model of myphologema. It was developed in the 70s by A. Lord. According to “Lord’s structure" genealogical and structural model of myphologema (or symbolic field) do not allow to chose arbitrarily an appropriate ethymology of myphologema  for effective but apocryphal typological reconstruction. As the result  a whole system-bloc of ethymology making look deeper in the history of the development of myths in the definite sector of genealogical tree begins to play an important role but not the ethymology of  separate names.

        This system is the ancient complex of myphologema connected with doctors-koribants and  marine strangers whose native country fell into chasm. The existence of  stories of the country that fell into chasm is confirmed by the Texts of Pyramids. This ancient Egyptian country is called Osek – sk “which fell into the chasm”.  According to philologist A.Kifishin it was this country that we could connect with the Greece Atlantis – the prospering country and that also fell into chasm. In any case it is a very steady myphologema.

    In the book “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” I determined mythological and genealogical schemes and tables of gods, heroes and historical persons, who had immediate attitude to the kingdom of Atlanteans and their hidden treasuries. Here are some persons: Sanchuniaton, Solomon, Queen of Sav, Fales, Filolay, Ferekid, Piphagor, Socrates, Gelon of Syracuse, Pindar, Aristotle, Xenocrat, Xenophont, Theopomp, Cyrus the Great, Cambiz, Mita (Midas), Alexander Macedonian, Nonn Panopolitanian, Dzeno brothers, Valeri Briusov, Apollinarii Michailov and his son Michail.

    The book is devoted to old Russian noble family of Michailovs, which kept folklore report about greatest treasuries of antiquity, as if hidden on the island of Crete. With the help of historical-mythological and genealogical searches I connected these holy relics with Atlantis, and for the first time defined the place of their being. It is determined that the most of the treasuries belonged to the descendants of Tantal and Pelops, owning the attributes of tsar and magic power over people. Tantalides and Pelopides had distinctive sign on their bodies which pointed to their “marine origin”. In my work I advanced the conception of “multitude of lands-Atlantides”, scattered in the past on all planet. Many of them were placed on islands, continental shelves, coastal countries of America, Africa, Antarctida and Eurasia. This conception presupposes the existence in the ancient times of the original civilization.

But real, first name of this culture is unknown to us, it changed every time, conforming to local conditions of origin and development of it on different parts of our planet. That’s why, following Plato tradition, we will call this culture- the culture of Atlanteans. The descendants of Atlant, according to Diodorus, as it is known, were the forefathers of the most part of the humanity.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:06:08 pm






   To my mind, geographically such civilization divided on principal island kingdoms of Atlanteans (with the central island state Poseidonis), auxiliary kingdoms- island, shelf and continental, and, in fact, colonies, also island, shelf and continental. A number of them may be not limited.

    Gram Hancock found “the traces of gods” on all the world, revealing ancient connections between outwardly not connected with each other civilizations. Hancock thinks that new discovery of archeologists will support his theory about complex of civilizations, which existed in glacial period, but were washed away, when the ice started melting, inundating more than 27 million of square km of dry land. In his time Charles Hapgood told that in the times of the last glaciery on Earth a developed civilization with substantial knowledge about our planet existed. It’s cartographers “made a survey of practically all the Globe with equally high technical level, same methodic, equal mathematical knowledge and, probably, using the same devices”.

    Esoteric tradition as if confirms the words of Plato. Theosophist (among them E.P. Blavatskaya) tell us about four ancient continents, periodically disappearing after every cataclysm on Earth. These are Indestructible Holy Country, Hyperborea, Lemuria and Atlantis. In remote times Atlantis, according to Blavatskaya, represented a huge archipelago, consisting of  “accumulation of many islands and peninsulas”.

    In the book “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” to support the conception of “multitude of the lands- Atlantides” I adduce rather rare document with the name “The Tree of Atlantis”. This is a manuscript of the middle of 1950-s of unknown Russian adherent who was a member of one Moscow societies of Rose and Cross. The manuscript was in a library of Michail Michailov, the last representative of old noble family, and according to his words was based on unknown source of the end of 18th-  beginning of 19th centuries. In this document “the golden tree of Atlantis” is described which once stood in a beautiful garden on one of the islands of Azores archipelago. It stands near a high mountain, it’s roots stretch to The Underground kingdom, the top reaches heaven (Heaven’s kingdom).

The mysterious tree resembles to us real “metal golden garden” in Kusco. It was beautiful panorama of one of ministerial ceremonies in Atlantis. Two ceremonies of Atlanteans were depicted in his time by Mickle Scott in 12th century. In one of the rites according to Scott a huge model of the country of Atlantis with all it’s topographical peculiarities was constructed. May be, golden tree depicted by us stood there. At the special model it’s branches stretched through oceans to all continents, and “countless leaves” depicted human races, nations etc. Most likely it is one of the most ancient geographical maps, similar to those which we see at Homer, Anaximandr, Hekatey.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:07:03 pm






 It is striking but here non traditional point of view to the problem of Atlantis is shown to which everybody got used. Most likely, the unknown adherent based on the conclusions of Blavatskaya  that Atlantis is not only geographical point but also a certain stage of development of life on Earth. But, may be it was another source.

    In her time Blavatskaya was guided by esoteric sources (Rose and Cross, mason etc.), knowledge picked up from “Chronicles of Acasha”, and also had direct contact with highest representatives of White Gimalayan Brotherhood. To my mind the author of “The Tree of Atlantis” used some unknown to us source of Rose and Cross or other which circulated in that time in Moscow esoteric circles.

    Now we can say with evident certainty that in Russia and in USSR there existed a definite closed circle of esoterics which was occupied directly by the problem of Atlantis. Especially demonstrative here is Moscow Knights Templars, spiritual predecessors of Rose and Cross and later mystical societies, consisting of “Order of Light”, “Order of Spirit”, Rose and Cross etc. One of such orders was found in 1920 in Moscow and destroyed in the end of 1930s.

    The theme of “Atlantis” is present in creative work and esoteric searches of Russian writers and poets, Symbolists of Rose and Cross in the beginning of 20th century. Atlantologist and specialist in study of literature Georgi Nefediev, specialist on the literature of Silver Age, traces back the possible relationships of Atlantis and brotherhood of Rose ad Cross. His work is based on archives searches of Andrei Bely, Viatcheslav Ivanov, Anna Minzlova and other Russian thinkers. Nefediev thinks that studying of creation and biographies of writers and poets- Russian symbolists, who wrote about Atlantis, may lead to unexpected conclusions, relating  as to legendary country itself as to reconstruction of esoteric history of humanity.

    The works of Russian atlantologists: V. Scherbakov, A.Kondratov, A.Gorodnitsky, E,Milanovsky, I.Rezanov, D.Panchenko, V.Kudriavtsev, A.Asov, V.Demin, A.Voitsechovsky, A.Voronin, G.Nefediev, A.Vagabov, V.Pachomov, Y.Linnik, V.Burachovich, G.Makarov, A.Rybin and others let to approach to the solution of centuries-old mystery-myth.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:08:01 pm






During the last years Russian atlantologists made more active noticeably. Since 1999 in Moscow the anthology “Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”- first Russian periodical edition, specially devoted to Atlantis and major problems of atlantology,is published. In this edition all points of view, as traditional, as non-traditional are presented. The anthology acquaints the reader with new discoveries in the sphere of ancient archaeology and history, brave hypotheses, rare archive materials about Russian and foreign atlantologists, or famous cultural workers, who by any way dealt in their works with the questions of Atlantis.

    The anthology tells about unknown pages of home atlantology. Russia enriched the world image of Atlantis by the great names: Michail Lomonosov, Helen Blavatskaya, Nickolay Rerich, Helen Rerich, Dmitry Merezhkovsky, Valery Briusov, Konstantin Balmont, Velimir Chlebnikov, Vasily Rozanov, Viatcheslav Ivanov, Alexey Tolstoy, Alexandr Belyayev, Georgy Golochvastov. We tried to deal with unstudied till the end layer of Russian culture connected wit esoteric knowledge of ancient civilizations on Earth. On the pages of this edition it is possible to acquaint with creation of forgotten today Russian atlantologists and also cultural workers, by any way connected with Atlantis: Avraam Norov, Vasily Kapnist, Michail Menschikov, Vladimir Bogachev, Nickolay Zhirov, Alexandr Aseev, Alexandr Bragin and many others.

    In the frames of anthology the only in Russia and countries of CIS Museum of Atlantis of N.F.Zhirov is created. Museum owns a voluminous library of the books in Russian and other materials, devoted to Atlantis. Here the books, manuscripts, photos from family archive and other things belonging to eminent Soviet scientist and atlantologist Nickolay Feodosievich Zhirov are kept solicitously.

    Atlantis was placed in any place. It is simpler to show the place where it was not placed. The numerous analogies in the culture of different people, especially of America, Africa and Eurasia , gathered by Donnelly, Zhirov, Heyerdal, Hancock and other investigators, show, that major kingdoms of Atlanteans and mastered by them colonies were scattered on all the world. Taking into account the dataset of paleobotany and paleozoology it is possible to explain connections between flora and fauna of Old and New Worlds.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:08:57 pm






Here major kingdoms may mean some first centers of development of Atlantean human race which started to spread over Earth further. During some decades scientists were sure that ancient man appeared in the regions of Eastern or Southern Africa, because exactly there the remains of the first anthropoids were found. And already then according to investigators the man started migration to Asia and Europe.

    However recent archaeological finds in Thailand shook this confidence. Found in the province of Lampang (510 km from Bangkok) remains of homo erectus were dated by earlier period: about 20-25 mln. years ago. This hypothesis appeared at first in the time when analogous remains were found on the island of Yava in Indonesia and in the foothills of Caucasus. Now hypothesis got a serious confirmation in Thailand burials.

    The last researches of the remains of anthropoids from different parts of the world showed that all main races of people: European, Negro-Australian and Mongolian developed independently and had different ancestors. These results- the last proof of the scientific controversy of the theories of origin of the modern Homo Sapiens.

    This confirms surprising sagacity of  H.Blavatsaya who asserted in 19th century that every human race is born at seven zones or Appanages in different parts of the planet. Probably, the general theory has more reasons for development that really already several directions of human races developed which periodically seldom crossed with each other. One of such races could be the race of Atlanteans.

    For today the most perspective regions for the searches for Atlantis are: Northern, Central and Southern Americas, the Antarctic, the Arctic, the island of San-Paulu, Cuban and Bahamas areas of water, Bermuda triangle, Bermuda, Azores, Canary islands, the island of Madeira, the islands of Green Cape and Selvazhensh, underwater archipelago of Horseshoe, Celtic shelf, the coast of Spain, the mouth of Gibraltar, the north of Europe and Russia, Atlas region and Tritonida (Northern Arica), Nigeria, Sicily, Malta, Crete, and Santorin.

    In the book “The Gates of  Atlantis” Andrew Collins considers in details the variants of translation of the dialogues of Plato. In them it is told that the kings of Atlantis (ten sons of Poseidon) had the power “over other islands and regions of the opposite continent”. The descendants of Poseidon “reigned as princes of countless islands in the ocean, besides their own”. That’s why the kingdom of Atlanteans was not a united island massif, but a vast number of islands.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:10:08 pm






The colonies of white race (Arians, Greeks, Celts, Goths, Slavs and others) according to Donnelly, were created by Atlanteans on the northern shores of Europe. He tells about numerous colonies of Atlanteans: Central American, Northern American, Egyptian, Iberian, African, Ireland, Arian etc.

    Collins, for example, considers that Cuba, Haiti and Puerto-Rico once were the parts of  Atlantis. As far back as in 1950s in Cuban coastal waters the remains of cyclopean constructions were seen. In press there appeared the essays about some complex of underwater buildings with area in four hectares to the north from Cuba. Collins writes guardedly that according to  data which are not confirmed in this “complex of buildings” there were held investigations with the help of Soviet submarine. This story could be incredible but fact remains: after that the publication followed of the book of Soviet scientist and atlantologist N.F. Zhirov “Atlantis” (1957). More substantial work with the name “Atlantis. The Main Problems of Atlantology” was published in 1964. Exactly in that times as Collins say, Soviet Union, resting on these finds, conducted in different regions of Atlantic the active searches of the proofs of existence of Atlantis.

    Among people in the West who understood at once that Soviet Union had already conducted the investigations of underwater construction in the waters of Cuba, was Leicester Hemingway, brother of the famous writer Ernest Hemingway. During his flight to Cuba Leicester noticed on the bottom “stony ruins occupying the area of some acres and having strangely white color as if they are made of marble”.

    In May 2001 in the bay of Guanahasibibes in western part of Cuba the joint Canada- Cuban expedition under leadership of Paulina Zelitzky discovered underwater city the age of which was 6000 years. It is curious that Paulina Zelitzky was born in Poland but studied for engineer in one of the closed institutes of Soviet Union. During cold war she was appointed to work on secret submarine which was then in Cuban waters. After that Zelitzky married and emigrated to Canada. It proves once more that the discoveries of Cuban-Canadian company under leadership of Paulina Zelitzky in western areas of water of Cuba were based on the results which were made some decades ago by Russians and Cubans. It is not a secret that until now the region of Seven Caves on the island of Youth (Pinos) is controlled by military men and tourists have no access here.

    Soviet submarines and research vessels furrowed in the region of Azores islands, near the shores of Spain and underwater archipelago Horseshoe. Russian geologists studied for a long time the underwater shoals Amper, Zhozephine, Gettisberg, Dacia, Concepsion, Corall, Sen which are members of archipelago Horseshoe. As far back as in 1962 Soviet vessel “Sedov” studied rather carefully the shoal Gettisberg. In the same region American and English geologists and oceanographers worked later.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:11:04 pm






  In 1970-80s USSR conducted large-scale research of  two underwater mountains Amper and Zhozephine. Hundreds of photos were made where hand-made walls, steps, the traces of masonry and vaults of some stony structures are imprinted. In these works doctor of geological-mineralogical sciences, professor, leading official of Institute of Oceanology of Russian academy of Sciences of P.P.Shirshov Alexandr Gorodnitsky took part. Geological and petrochemical investigation of the specimen of basalt from the top of the mountain showed that such rock could form only on dry land 12000 years ago. So, almost 12000 years ago this archipelago was above water and stretched from Azores islands to Gibraltar.

    Not long ago French scientist Jack Collina-Jirar opened in the mouth of Gibraltar seven underwater shoals on which according to his mind culture of Atlanteans could originate. Near Cadiz in the middle of  1970s the archaeologists found at the depth of 30 meters the remains of huge four buildings with stony roads. Beginning from 1970s and up to 1990s here military marine forces of USA conducted their secret research expeditions. According to the rumors exactly military men found in Spanish waters the remains of Atlantis.

    The modern scientist Jeremy Horwick is going to publish the book “Mission- Atlantis: What do Seamen Know About Destroyed Continent”, in which he describes these operations. Horwick refers to declassified official documents and questioning of the former seamen from submarine. He maintains that military men managed to rise to the surface and take out the specimen of antediluvian techniques and armor of Atlantis. Later on Americans wanted to apply the unique technology of Atlantis in the cold war with Soviet Union. All this knowledge was used by the scientists of USA to create mighty military technique among them the invisible airplanes of the type “stells”, anti-missile system, cosmic technologies. Later on all publications about find were voted as mystification. From reliable sources it is known that here American special services took part which spread rumors with intention about supposedly deliberately false information.

    In 2001 to the south-west from Azores islands American and  Spanish geologists fixed underwater plateau of 90 km long. In the center of plateau  not destroyed temple with nine columns is found. Nearby the remains of five circle channels with bridges were placed. As American atlantologists assure all the information and photographs of the buildings are blocked by military departments of USA. According to our data exactly on Terseira one of the most secret bases of  military marine forces of USA is situated. May be it is connected with mysterious anomaly zones on archipelago itself and in the coastal waters? Portuguese's call such zones “Misterios”.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:12:14 pm






Recent sensational finds near the coasts of Cuba, Easter island, India, Japan, on Bahama and Azores islands, practically on all northern coast of Russia from Kolsky peninsula to Taimyr, on the islands of Spitsbergen, on Franz Josef Land and Novaya Zemlya tell about incredible antiquity of not only human culture but also attribute them to Mythical civilizations, such as Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis, Pacifida, Mu and others.

    French scholar Jean Bailly in 17 th cent. identified Hyperborea and Atlantis. He formed the polar conception of the origin of world culture and civilization. So, mass migrations of ancient nations went from  North and not from South. In the end of 19th and beginning of 20th cent. William Warren in the book “Found Paradise on the Northern Pole” (1893) and Balgangadhara Tilak in the book “Arctic Motherland in Vedas” (1903).

In the beginning of  21st cent. Russian professor, doctor of philosophy Vitaly Demin came to the same conclusion. From 1986 with systematical investigations of Russian Arctic Marine Arctic complex expedition is occupied actively. Expeditions of 1997-2002 to Kolsky peninsula and Yamal, organized by Demin, gave sensational results. On the whole coast  Yamal the traces of being of ancient man are found, dated by the lower chronological slat by 3,000 B.C. Earlier, in 1982 during excavations in the region of Diring-Yuriah 140 km from Yakutsk stone tools were found the age of which is determined in the frames of 3,2-1,5 million years. In summer of  2001 on the river of Polui 40 km from Salekhard arcaeologists found tattooed mummy of the girl, which was not ascribed to any antropological race. Consequently, we can say that origin of man on Earth happened not in one place but in several ones and among them behind the polar circle.

On Kolsky peninsula and Solovetsk islands the most striking discoveries were made: the remains of ancient constructions, rock paintings, stone galleries, labyrinths, sanctuaries, pyramids, stone idol of 5 metres, mysterious polymetal figure resembling picture of matriarchal Eurasian Great Goddess.

Holy Lappish lakes Seidozero and Lovozero of Kolsky peninsula hide in themselves a lot of mysteries. In 1922 under the guidance of  F. Dzerzhinsky to Seidozero the expedition of  Russian scientist-cosmist Alexandr Barchenko (1881-1938) set off. Exactly here the expedition looked for material traces and secret knowledge of disappeared Hyperborean culture. According to witnesses, the participants found “stony flower of lotus”, the picture of trident, high white column, near it- mysterious cubic stone.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:13:19 pm






Then a secret department existed in OGPU, secretly leading and financing some laboratories and expedition projects and among them elaborations of Barchenko. The discoveries of Barchenko at once appeared in the hands of officials of All-Russian Special Commission for Combating Counter- revolution and Sabotage and were strictly placed on secret about which there are documental corroborations.

Seidozero itself is a symbol and personification of Great Mystery. According to legend it has double bottom. In the mountains near the lake Barchenko went down to underground cave which probably led under the bottom of  the lake. In July 2001 the expedition of Demin managed to fix with the help of radiolocation on the coast of Seidozero a vast- about 9 meters in height- cavity of the cave kind filled with water. From here under the bottom of the lake a tunnel goes also filled with water and silt. In a year here  rectilineal stone blocks were found processed as examination showed by metal instruments! The time of their artificial processing oscillate from 8th to 9th thsnd. B.C.
Also a great impression make pyramidal  peaks on Spitsbergen. The name of northern archipelago is derived from two words: spitz- “sharp end”, bergen- “mountains”. One of the most famous mountains on Spitsbergen is called so- “pyramid”. Pyramidal hills, mounds, mountains and, properly speaking pyramids are everywhere.

In Russia pyramidal constructions and, in fact, pyramids we can meet in Chukotka, Yamal, Urals, Siberia, Primorsky region (Nachodka), in Middle Asia. Even in Crimea whole 37 underground pyramids are found! In the centre of Nachodka a pyramid with the name “Brother” is rising exploded in Soviet times. The age of pyramid is estimated by the scientists of Second Amur expedition in some tens thousand years, and may be hundred thousand years.
Large stone balls of different seize the researchers unexpectedly found on the island of Champ of Franz Josef Land archipelago. Undoubtedly, they are processed by human hands and resemble the same artifacts of Costa-Rica, Guatemala  and Mexico. The scientists managed to find similar stone balls in other regions of the planet- in Kazachstan, Egypt, Romania, Germany, Brasil.

Some data let us tell that rivalry between Soviet Union and USA in a cold war took place not only in the sphere of traditional science and culture but in the non-traditional sphere such as esoteric knowledge of ancient civilizations including Hyperborea, Lemuria and Atlantis. The archives of the former special agencies and special departments OGPU, NKVD, MGB, in particular, concerning expeditions of Barchenko, Rerich and other investigators to Kolsky peninsula, Krimea, Altai, Aphganistan,Tibet, Mongolia and other concealed centers passed under the authority of KGB and then FSB of Russia. It is known that in 1926 Barchenko and Rerich met with each other.

In the last decade Russian scientists continue the searches of  the perished civilization. In the period from 1996 to 1999 the group of scientists from Ufa under leadership of doctor of medicine, professor, the director of All Russian center of optic and plastic surgery of Ministry of health of Russia E.R.Muldashev organized four expeditions in the region of Tibet to find legendary City of Gods.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:14:25 pm






Studying the results of four Gimalayan-Tibet expeditions, Muldashev and his group came to sensational conclusions: City of Gods was built by representatives of antediluvian civilizations: Lemurians and Atlanteans!

The members of expedition discovered in the region of Tibet about 100 mountains in which the pyramidal constructions and monuments could be guessed, clearly oriented to the sides of the world. All this complex of mountain constructions is connected mathematically and geographically with Egyptian, Mexican and other pyramidal constructions on Earth, Northern Pole and ancient megaliths (Stonehenge and others).

On the top of one of the pyramids the members of expedition saw a monument in the pose of sitting man. The height of this monument approximately was 40 meters. Computer treatment of photo- and video material showed that the statue “was sitting” in the pose of Buddha, slightly inclined ahead, holds a plate (or a book) on the knees and as if reading it. The statue is turned with it’s face to South-East- where legendary Lemuria was situated on the territory of Pacific ocean. Muldashev thinks that this monument symbolizes a Lemurian, giving to Atlanteans “golden plates” on which imperishable knowledge of former generations is written. According to many legends “golden plates” (the records of true, “Akasha” knowledge) are kept till now in the deep undergrounds of Shambala- City of Gods together with sleeping representatives of the first civilizations on Earth.

In summer of 1998 Institute of Metahistory jointly with Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P.Shirshov  conducted preparations of expedition for the search of legendary island. The scientists had to check up the hypothesis of Member of Russian Geographical society of Russian academy of sciences Viatcheslav Kudriavtsev, according to which, Atlantis was in the region of Celtic shelf to the south of present England and Ireland and to the West from France. But expedition wasn’t held because of financial difficulties.

Numerous artifacts found in all places of the World come to the conclusion about existence in the distant past of unknown civilization preceding to ours. And it is not important how it was called: Hyperborea, Lemuria or Atlantis. The other thing is important, that many years ago, when the skepticism of humanity concerning cyclic development was very high there were found great lone persons-investigators  like Zhirov, who believed selflessly into existence of antediluvian cultures. It was a real knight of Atlantis, eminent person of encyclopedic knowledge and atlantologist of 20th Century.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:15:29 pm





Zhirov believed that the time of enthusiastic lonely persons who cannot embrace all the complex of questions connected with scientific atlantology will some time pass. Zhirov dreamed about the problem of Atlantis to be examined with participation of scientists-specialists of different scientific disciplines.

It seems that such time has already come. In western countries the societies, organizations and institutes actively working with the problem of Atlantis are created. One of the main such centers is situated in the state of Virginia (USA). Association of scientists and men of enlightenment (ARE) was created in 1932 on the base of Fund of Edgar Cayce, where the theme of “Atlantis” is on one of the first places in the system of research projects.
In Russia with the questions of Atlantis recently created “Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis” (ROIPA) under the aegis of anthology “Atlantis: problems,searches, hypotheses” is occupied.

In 2000 in Moscow the First Russian congress of atlantologists took place which solved in the main organizing problems in connection with publication of special anthology. In May of 2003 also in Moscow in premises of Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P. Shirshov the Second Russian congress of atlantologists , devoted to 100 anniversary of outstanding Russian atlantologist and scientist Nikolay Feodosievich Zhirov, took place.

At the forum famous scientists, investigators, atlantologists were present: Doctor of geological-mineralogical sciences, Professor, leading official of Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P. Shirshov A.M.Gorodnitsky, Doctor of philosophy in the sphere of ancient history (Brusseles) V.I. Scherbakov, leading official of Institute of geography of Russian academy of sciences, Doctor of geographical sciences, Professor M.G. Grosvald, State prize of the USSR winner, member of Russian academy of cosmonautics of  K.E. Tsiolkovsky A.I. Voitsechovsky, writer, chief editor of the magazine “World Pathfinder” N.N. Nepomniaschy, President of  Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA), chief editor of the anthology “Atlantis: problems, searches hypotheses” A.A. Voronin, Chairman of independent association “The Lute of Oriola”, winner of the premium of International Literary fund of Milan Fusht at Hungarian Academy of sciences L.A. Volodarsky, atlantologist and specialist in study of literature  G.V.Nefediev, investigator-atlantologist A. Vagabov and many others.

The congress played a great role in unification of Russian atlantologists, strengthening of  relations with foreign colleagues, scientific institutions, which are occupied at the present time with the problem of Atlantis in Russia and abroad.

The last investigations show that humanity doesn’t stay still. From the color pieces of antediluvian heritage of the most ancient civilizations a united mosaic canvas with the name “Atlantis” is formed gradually. The humanity is being convinced the next time that History cannot be considered without intercommunication with ancient Tradition and Esoteric doctrine. The development of the science of atlantology will inevitably lead in the near future to the practical aim- discovery of mysterious Atlantis.

                Alexandr Voronin

President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA)

Chief editor of the anthology
“Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”


http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2583/rus.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:37:54 pm






Webmasters response to the information presented-




As you can see there is allot of timeline history in Russian research into the Atlantis question which for some of us in the 'states' in some cases makes one feel like we are out of touch with what has happened with the rest of the Old World theories about Atlantis which we only get a portion of from internet, library loan books, or correspondence via the electronic age.

Most of us do not travel the world and in our own little cubby holes we get very little of what the bigger picture on the Atlantis subject of what it actually was or is. The main point is other people of other countries are invited to put forward Bibliography research and the goal of this internet site is to have the largest Bibliography base on Atlantis books or research in the world.

I have been collecting for sometime and think soon the greatest book lists should be put forward for the future researcher to look up. Why? Because the day Atlantis is publicly found or announced and the finders of Atlantis said 'yep that's Atlantis alright'.

I think the list of books of who said what over time will be exceedingly important just as science glorified Sir Arthur Evans or many other great archaeologist, before they do take credit for the Atlantis discovery take a good look at who in the past were the list of believers of Atlantis who never got credit and got ridiculed for just looking at the subject by their own peers!

When did the ridicule start? Aristotle started it on Plato, but later actually had pseudo recanted due to some mysterious evidence that upset him to not speak about it further when asked his opinion on the subject. Much as Jung did to Freud, the knock came from somewhere else when Aristotle looked into the subject and found he could not disprove Plato, what that may have involved was some botany issue maybe like Darwin's of the Canary Islands African violets?

The main aspects of the above letter found intriguing is the Giant terms like Rus, and the giant-bogatyr it may be noted I might add for A. Voronin that 'Rus' is a part of a name involved in Stonehenge's own old name of Kalerous in Egyptian is Kel=Temple (Celtic Prefix)+Lair like a Field+(L=R)Ra+Aus= 'The Temple or Field of Ra and Osiris' and note the Kaleva Story name as a kind of Killarous in the sense of Kelva or Corva is Raven and Crone of Bran. The bird is Rus or Ra-Aus in a rising sun form a replacement of Ra-Benu a large mythical bird of the Nordic a heron or woodpecker variety. Thus is Stonehenge lore is it was built by Giants then here is the 'Rus' Gaints name replicated as his Kel-Temple. Makes one wonder if the name was Rus-Thonen?

Then also this," Russian poets Nikolay Kluev and Alexander Block describe underwater Diamond Ice City- spiritual center of Russian Old Belief and also the symbolic ascent to snowy mountains in the North searching for God. " Well known the story of the Kaleva of the Ice Giants who come from Castle of Ice of a name like Carianthral ('Crown Tower') as if Corona Borealis had gone sunk?

Also Bogatyr of Russia has a place name relative of Bogota of Bolivia or in South America which has many weird iron to copper sculptures of a head dressed figure who looks like a Hindu version of Lugh or the conical hat attributed to a culture that came from Venezula or from the marsh river culture near the Islands of the coast of Columbia or Brazil and has the ethnic look of a 'Pomer' or 'Sea Side People' who were at first noted as Red Ochre seekers of the Middle East Asian mixed who had Baltic God names but not unlike pre-Phoenician associations? Although some confusions later or earlier with Bootes figure the original Bogata seems to have been a woman Giantess!

The line about "Zlatogorka, the daughter of Sviatogor lives somewhere behind the sea in Latyn (Altyn, Alatyr) kingdom, which is understood as Atlantis. Exactly Slavic legends tell us about the perished once great ancient land of Veles- Sviatogor- Dazhbog." Shows some very plausible language as somewhat old i.e. this list:


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:38:59 pm






Svaitogor as 'Suph-t'='Reed' or 'Heaven Region' or 'Field' with Akeru as 'the man of the field' as divine or intelligent often involving a circuit of land or the sky in Egypt. In Canaan Atragades or Atragator is allot like the 'aitogor' name involving a sacred land of a man or woman goddess connected with both agriculture, tree or garden cultivators but of hunters as well.

The Zlatogorka would appear to be his pseudo consort of the female form with the 'atogorka' which Gorka was a term used for female shamans like Gorgo-n. But outside of the Zlato or salt name and Gorka as possibly a fish there is the Sertu-Kerke which involves a 'cave' and 'circle of stone' term and possibly a 'never setting field' which in the end on land the field eventually did.

The most important clue is the Latyn, Altyn, and Alatyr kingdom involving altar, hill, and lind worm along with river and a female Sun Goddess with some tower or bull possibly involved. The Alatyr is very similar to Altair Star easily seen star of Aquila constellation often associated with lands running from North America to the Nordic and Hyperborian kingdoms? In the northern sky it is one end of the Milky Way bridge so to speak and a significant metaphor if the spelling and pronunciations are correct. It may explain a Nordic name for Draco as in some cases a name like Ladon taken from what appears to be Lythian or Scythian terminologies?


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 15, 2007, 09:40:11 pm





On the whole the Veles-Sviatogor-Dazhbog seems to indicate a strange comment about that land which is very close to a descriptive of lands probably west of Russia and even Great Britian involving the Celtic Shelf all the way to the Sargasso Sea.

Veles like Valleys, Vales, Winds or Sails like Vela X, Wales like the 'Milky Way', or Ferrys actual boat. Then the Sviatogor 'Land of Sacred Heavenly Reeds or in America we call the 'Ever Glades' and Elysian Fields. Then Dazhbog which is actually more difficult but could be a name like Tchesberg or Datcha-Bog as a Council or a cemetary as Tcheser with the Bog as the place of glacial sunk land as if Corona constellation and its council sunk like the 'Ice Castle'?

If we take the line from Altair to Corona we find one creature or two encompass that region in the north sky one is Vega, the next is Hercules, and last is Draco in the dead center of this mythic plotting. Daz could refer to Draco as well implied as cut by some pole alignment in relation to the Bogs? It may be noted Altair is 15' degrees below the Corona line in the night sky so if once circumpolar by that distance south we are looking at a region not far from the Straits of Gibraltar and most definitely looking at the terminus of the region of  Southern France west Coast i.e. near Spain.

We can imagine as many Hesperidia type myths that the Milky Way ended up having the Atlantis story thrown into the sky as eternal reeds and ferries crossing them to the Slavic or Nordic ancestors via the bogs of the final resting place of the atlantean councils or their lost celtic shelf and ancestors in the 'west' like Osiris and Arthurs Avalon is typified.

This I put forward in light of John Cohane's 'The Key' which is somewhat a valid attempt of the places, gods names and men as well as other studies of linguistics I do. Others can try what I just did but you may note I was exceedingly cautious for sound shifts are a touchy thing not child's play and difficult to master.

If one does not have at least 30 years experience in this then you better have the best sound shift information and ancient texts in your hands and know about 8 languages right off hand and even then you may not have the full history of language in front of you which involves libraries most never go to in order to find out.

Some of the information put forward in the above compillation of Voronin has been noted only in certain parts in Charles Berlitz Book 'The Eight Continent' but very few if at all of the Russian work in general.

Without the information above as a guideline most of us in the world would not be aware of the level of contribution the Russians have on Atlantis, and now that country is of a Euro type status I am sure more declassified information will come out over the years to fill the deep void most of us felt when the 'Block' was up and could not correspond in the specific interest of Atlantology which the year 2,000 A.D. was designated a science not a fringe archaeology due to what has occurred in Cuba temples found which now has taken most scientists out of the laughing group into very serious and concerned posture that history will once again be slightly vindicated by their prior jeers.

Atlantologists, believe me, are now some of the most sought after scientists in light of these new facts but the point is they have been around for years but who would listen? It was the public that listened and explains why the story has never ended. They understand that in civilizations of man spanning thousands upon thousands of years man  rose and fell in periods of light and darkness and so the public even with a high school education can understand at least that very physical and human reality i.e. our frailty to any form of extinction.

Lets pray that this website and many others awakening the world of certain realities will make many appreciate the world wide heritage Atlantis and Mu plausibly somewhat bestowed on man in growing up back to the period of beings of light we once were and may return to that condition if we learn about the harmony of earth not the discord of it.


 Sinc. Dean Clarke BLS




Thanks A. Voronin, again. Good work and this is a replication to what are the parts of the information that are on their Russian website in Russia of the Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA)   and open to the Russian public.


http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2583/rus.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Desiree on September 15, 2007, 11:46:32 pm
Still no more images of what the Russians found at the Ampere Seamounts!  You'd think someone would have them.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 16, 2007, 07:11:28 am




QUOTE FROM WEBMASTER AT BEGINNING OF NARRATIVE:

"Although the information below maybe in some limited cases controversial about the Governments of both USA and Russia having a little too much to not say about the subject of Atlantis yet seemingly to be keenly interested about the subject when it literally shows up in artifacts, yet in their posture remains low profile to the public.

I think the letter is somewhat warranted in some of those controversial comments by Voronin in light of past history of many Governments reactions ranging from overly cool to hostile reactions about the subject of Atlantis as considered to many atlantologist a fairly irrational response in light of goofy propaganda attempts they sometimes make when something big for historical purposes is found.

Remember if you control the worlds history you control the world is maybe what they think but does not sound like a very spiritual credo to me! "



Desi

We may never be able to see those pictures, the government has them.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 16, 2007, 07:50:08 am






MORE OF THE SAME:




"Near Cadiz in the middle of  1970s the archaeologists found at the depth of 30 meters the remains of huge four buildings with stony roads. Beginning from 1970s and up to 1990s here military marine forces of USA conducted their secret research expeditions. According to the rumors exactly military men found in Spanish waters the remains of Atlantis.

    The modern scientist Jeremy Horwick is going to publish the book “Mission- Atlantis: What do Seamen Know About Destroyed Continent”, in which he describes these operations. Horwick refers to declassified official documents and questioning of the former seamen from submarine. He maintains that military men managed to rise to the surface and take out the specimen of antediluvian techniques and armor of Atlantis.

Later on Americans wanted to apply the unique technology of Atlantis in the cold war with Soviet Union.

All this knowledge was used by the scientists of USA to create mighty military technique among them the invisible airplanes of the type “stells”, anti-missile system, cosmic technologies. Later on all publications about find were voted as mystification. From reliable sources it is known that here American special services took part which spread rumors with intention about supposedly deliberately false information."



 In 2001 to the south-west from Azores islands American and  Spanish geologists fixed underwater plateau of 90 km long. In the center of plateau  not destroyed temple with nine columns is found. Nearby the remains of five circle channels with bridges were placed. As American atlantologists assure all the information and photographs of the buildings are blocked by military departments of USA. According to our data exactly on Terseira one of the most secret bases of  military marine forces of USA is situated. May be it is connected with mysterious anomaly zones on archipelago itself and in the coastal waters? Portuguese's call such zones “Misterios”.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on September 16, 2007, 05:58:11 pm







                                           •   •   •   RUSSIAN RESOURCES   •   •   •



__


Atlantida. "Poslanie Nerozhdennym"   •   zerkalo
Rasshifrovka drevnej kriptogrammy. Karta Atlantidy.


Al'manakh Atlantida  •  zerkalo
Pervoe rossijskoe periodicheskoe izdanie, posvjashchennoe Atlantide i osnovnym problemam atlantologii.


Institut metaistorii: ATLANTIS
Platonova Atlantida: civilizacija Lednikovogo perioda. Gipoteza Vacheslava Kudravceva. Fenomen Atlantidy, tochki zrenija, Diodor Sycylijskij ob Atlantide, literatura


Atlantida
Drevnij mir, Srednije veka, Novoje vremja - ob Atlantide. Datirovka sushchestvovanija i gibeli Atlantidy, argumenty v polzu sushchestvovanija. Atlantomanija i atlantofobija, okkultno-misticheskije teoriji, literatura, bibliografija


Atlantida - vse o zagadochnoj civilizaciji
Informacija ob istoriji i gibeli Atlantidy. Mnozhestvo faktov. Zagadki zaterannyh gorodov i kontinentov


Atlantida Platona
Svidetelstvo Solona. Srednizemnomorje ili Atlantika? Kromanjoncy-atlanty. Donelli i drugije...


Tajny Velikoj Atlantidy Andre Siberta
Kodovoje poslanije Atlantov, karta Velikoj Atlantidy, kapsula-poslanije Civilizaciji Atlantov. NLO, vnezemnyje razumy, jegipetskije piramiddy. Anglijskaja versija


Atlantida
A.I. Poletajev. Obzor, shema razmeshchenija Atlantidy...


Tajny planety Zemla
Tajna, kotoraja okutyvajet vse, chto svazano s Atlantidoj, ne ogranichivajetsa tolko problemoj poiska...


Vrema pozhyrajet prostranstvo
Gibel Atlantidy i jeje ten'. Vsemirnyj Potop, geograficheskije metamorfozy...


Sumerechnaja zona: Atlantida
Vladimir Pachomov "Poslanije novorozhdennym". Izlozhenije osnovano na dannych iz rasshyfrovki drevnej kriptogrammy


Atlantida
Atlantida - poteriannyj raj chelovechestva


Atlantida
Fantasty v poiskah Atlantidy


Terra Incognita
Kontynent v Atlanticheskom okeane - poiski


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on September 17, 2007, 01:35:53 am
Yes Bianca ,

Those famed pics of Ampere Seamount, we never get anything more on that.. About that elusive Jeremy Horwick book about the American military having found Atlantis, did you say it's not been published yet?  I thought it had been . I want to get my hands on it if it is out,, I realise the dangers of going down this conspiracy theory path but aslong as you stay grounded and just consider the evidence it is worth a look .


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 12, 2007, 04:47:47 pm
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/images/_43345_300atlantismap.gif)








                                    RUSSIANS SEEK ATLANTIS OFF CORNWALL





Monday, December 29, 1997 

For centuries explorers have searched for the remains of Atlantis - the fabled city under the sea.

Now a team from Russia says it has identified it - 100 miles off Land's End, off the south-west coast of England. And this summer they intend to prove it.

The team from the Moscow Institute of Meta-History is one of two new projects to start in the New Year. The other is a 30-strong British expedition to Bolivia to find Atlantis under a lake.

The Russian search is based on a re-reading of classical Greek texts. They believe Atlantis is at Little Sole Bank, a hill on the Atlantic seabed.

The site is at the edge of the Celtic Shelf which, before the Ice Age, was above sea level.

The site description fits in with the Cornish myth of the land of Lyonesse - also known as the City of Lions. Lyonesse is said to have stood between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly.
 
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/images/_43345_plato.jpg)
Plato, the Greek philosopher who detailed Atlantis' location

Atlantis was first described by the Greek philosopher Plato in his work The Republic nearly 2,500 years ago.

Plato said the city existed for more than 9,000 years with walls paved with silver and gold.

In The Republic, Atlantis is destroyed by the gods when its people become wicked and decadent.

But classical scholar Dr Peter Jones told the BBC: "Historically Atlantis is nonsense."

He added that Plato was using a political allegory but also that he was very precise about the location of Atlantis.

"It is an island in front of the straits of Gibraltar, and no such island exists," said Dr Jones.

"This is pure invention. It's not history, it's not even myth, it is an allegory - a fabulous science-fiction superstate - a utopia, and ancient philosophers like Plato use allegories like this all the time."

British explorer Colonel John Blashford-Snell, believes there is enough evidence in The Republic to justify a search for Atlantis in Bolivia. His team leaves in March.

His team has used satellite mapping technologies to analyse the topography in Bolivia and has found striking resemblances between the area and the site Plato describes, he says.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/43172.stm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 12, 2007, 04:51:53 pm




As usual, that was the FIRST AND LAST we heard about that expedition.....

It's been ten years, now.....


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 14, 2007, 08:00:04 pm





                    S Y K E S '   C O N T E M P O R A R Y   A T L A N T O L O G I S T S






Dr. N. Th. Zhirov



Dr. N. Th. Zhirov was a personal friend of Sykes for over twenty years. Unfortunately, Zhirov suffered from injuries received in World War II and never got out of Russia actually to see the Atlantic Ocean about which he wrote so much. Zhirov quoted early Russian classical sources; thus, he was an outstanding contributor to the study of Atlantis. He was very scientific and absolutely objective, and set a standard for Russian Atlantology. Zhirov died in December 1970 in Moscow. His obituary was published in the January 1971 issue of Atlantis.






Russians and Atlantis


The earliest original work on Atlantis was written by A.S. Norov and published in 1854 in Russian and German. In 1917, appeared one of the most serious works by V. Bryusov, the famous Russian poet, who was engaged in the scientific study of the problem until his death. He gave all of the data available as evidence that Atlantis was the cradle of the majority of subsequent civilizations. In the 1930’s, there was considerable interest in the problem with articles in small popular science brochures and the publication of B.L. Bogaevsky, a prominent Soviet historian, who dismissed the lost continent. Almost twenty-five years followed, in which not a single work on the subject appeared in the USSR. Impetus was given in 1954 by E. Andreeva’s most popular science book about Atlantis, Easter Island, and Sannikov’s land, in which she used scientific geological and oceanographic data to demonstrate the undoubted reality of Atlantis.

In 1963, Sykes received a Christmas card from Zhirov which had postage stamps issued in Russia commemorating two well known scientists who were also famous Atlantologists — Vladimir Obzuchev, Member of the Academy 1863-1956, and Valery Brussov, the famous poet and Atlantologist.



Zhirov’s Writings


In 1957, Zhirov published Atlantis in Moscow, a most informative book on Atlantis with a bibliography that included no fewer than eighty references in Russian, plus sixty references in other languages. The book was only available in Russian. Zhirov was an active contributor to Atlantis journal. In the November 1957 issue of Atlantis, Sykes published A Letter From Dr. Zhirov & A Short Contents Of The Book Atlantis, and in the September 1958 issue of Atlantis, An Open Letter From Dr. Zhirov To All Atlantologists was published.

In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov, who was always looking for evidence that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was once above sea level, reported in An Indisputable Demonstration Of The Great Subsidence Of The Mid-Atlantic Ridge,that N.N. Gorskiy’s book The Secrets of the Ocean, Moscow, 1960, showed two photographs of shallow water corals grown on rock, dredged up from the Mid Atlantic ridge from a depth of twenty-five-hundred meters by the Soviet oceanographic expedition ship Mikhail Lomonossov. No Carbon-14 dates available.

In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov wrote A Critical Analysis Of The Material Culture Of Plato’s Atlantis in which Plato mentions iron, gold, silver, copper, tin, orichalcum (a copper alloy?), and the antiseismic architecture of Egypt and Mesopotamia.

On April 22, 1964, Dr. Zhirov’s The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis was read to the Leningrad House of the Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours. The event was reported in the October 1964 issue of Atlantis in an article titled Atlantological News From The USSR.

Zhirov’s Atlantida was published in 1964 by the State Publishing House of Moscow. The preface was written by the editor, Professor Demetrius G. Panow, Doctor of Geological Sciences. The book was published in Romanian in 1967, while Sykes ranted impatiently that no copies were available in French and English. In the book, Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents, structure of mountains and submarine ridges, seismic processes, cosmological influences, tectonic origins, and the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna, and changes produced by the Gulf Stream. The accumulated evidence indicated that a land mass could have existed in the Atlantic. If this view could be proved, it would lead to a complete reversal of the views generally held concerning the migration and development of man.




Atlantis, Atlantology:

Basic Problems was published in Moscow in 1970. At the time, this book was the most extensive attempt to produce geological and geographical proof that Atlantis really existed. The great complexity of the geology of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is discussed. There was a thirty-five page bibliography of eight-hundred references. Sykes owned this book in three languages. The book was reviewed in the November 1971 issue of New World Antiquity.


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,4717.msg43579.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Mark of Australia on November 14, 2007, 10:04:24 pm
Thats great info Bianca,

I do have that book by Zhirov " Atlantis: Basic Problems". It is quite good ,but they say that the geological aspect of it is out of date .I take that fairly lightly because what that really means is that the present day doctrine doesn't match Zhirov's interpretations... But I think present day geological doctrines leave a lot to be desired anyway so I'm not too quick to dismiss his ideas.

There's always a Russian in there somewhere!.  I mean ,the Russians always seem to be at the forefront of human endeavors one way or another. Often when looking at the history of science ,you'll find that a Russian scientist was on the 'right' track years before the breakthrough arrives in the West.   
One example that springs to mind is the Continental Drift theory ,,even before Wegener a Russian scientist seriously proposed it.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 18, 2007, 10:36:25 am






                            Formerly Emerging Crustal Blocks In The Equatorial Atlantic





The above heading is the same as the title of a paper published in 1981 in the journal Tectonophysics. Enrico Bonatti, of Columbia University and the Marine Geology Laboratory in Bologna, Italy, and Andy Chermak, of the University of Miami, are the authors. The National Science Foundation (NSF) and the Office of Naval Research (ONR) sponsored their work, and it was carried out on the Romanche fracture zone shown on Figure 2.
 
(http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/subs/Other/EquatorialAtlantis/Romanche750.jpg)
 
Fig. 2.  Schematic representation of the structural pattern associated with the Romanche and other equatorial Atlantic fracture zones.  SPSP = St. Peter/St. Paul islets.  DSDP 25 = Deep Sea Drilling Project, sea-floor boring no. 25.  Solid black triangle indicates sites where shallow water limestones were recovered.  Modified from Fig. 1 of Bonatti and Chermak.

 

Among the results of their study, Bonatti and Chermak identified a strip of sea floor over 300 miles in length along the Romanche fracture zone (FZ) that is anomalously shallow by at least six-tenths of a mile relative to predicted depths. They suggest that the sea-floor high spots are capped by carbonate banks representing stages when they reached close to, and possibly above, sea level. They then estimate that the rate of uplift and sinking of the anomalous crustal blocks was about twice as fast as other crust of equivalent age.

The authors note further that at the Deep Sea Drilling Project (DSDP) hole 25 (Fig. 2), Eocene age shallow water limestones were recovered. They suggest that the emergent crust “may even have provided ‘land bridges’ for faunal migrations between Africa and South America in early Cenozoic times after the two continents had already been separated.” It is here that they bow to the hypothesis of sea-floor spreading and plate tectonics to explain their findings. That was in 1981. Only ten years later, however, the authors’ sea-floor spreading interpretation was to be disputed. 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 18, 2007, 10:45:11 am






Russian Evidence Indicates Only Minor Sea-Floor Spreading





Ten years later we learn of Russian oceanographers hauling up all kinds of unusual dredge samples from the vicinity of the MAR, or from the slopes of the St. Paul FZ (see Fig. 2).  I won’t describe all of the various rock types recovered except to say that many dredge samples contained continental type rocks and microfossils.4  This led the authors to conclude, as follows.

The finds of continental rocks and sediments whose age is older than that determined by paleographic reconstruction in accordance with the ‘canons’ of plate tectonics are an important addition to geophysical data suggesting the ‘non-spreading’ origin of flank plateaus in the equatorial segment of the MAR…..A platform still persists on the downwarped flank plateaus of the MAR because sea-floor spreading was limited entirely to the axial part of its equatorial segment.








Implications of Russian Oceanographers’ Conclusions






It’s time for scientists to start trying to understand vertical sea-floor changes over time through more than the predominantly horizontal sea-floor spreading/plate tectonics model.  Recall that we have presented a different model to explain what could have been going on along the MAR in our review of Prof. MacKenzie Keith’s article on the plate tectonics theory’s “house of cards.”  Our review is entitled: “New Hypothesis Provides A Basis For The Reality Of The Legendary Continents Of Atlantis And Lemuria --The demise of the current sea-floor spreading and plate-tectonics theory.”  In our review we explain how Keith’s new model contributes to an understanding of the origin and destruction of the Atlantis of Cayce’s readings.


http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/subs/Other/EquatorialAtlantis/SuggestiveAtlantisEvidence.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 26, 2007, 11:45:27 am








I FOUND A SERIES OF ARTICLES FROM 'PRAVDA.RU'.


HERE'S THE FIRST ONE:




Atlantis Under Antarctica?

























After WW II, scientists started to pay close attention to the issue of a supposedly once-existing civilization in Antarctica. The hypothesis is confirmed by some medieval maps and research of paleogeologists and glaciologists.



In January of 1820, Lieutenant of Russian Empire Fleet Mikhail Lazarev discovered a new continent. In the beginning of 20th century, a Russian encyclopaedia, while adducing the approximate square milage of south pole continent, reported that it was insufficiently explored and there was no flora and fauna. The author of the article also mentioned the richness of the algae and sea life.



Twenty years later, the director of the Istanbul National Museum, Khalil Edkhem, was sorting out a library of the Byzantine emperors in an old palace. He found an ancient map made on gazelle skin. On the map, there were the shores of western and southern Africa, as well as the northern shores of Antarctica. Khalil could not believe his eyes: the shores of the Queen Mod Land, to the south of the 70th parallel, was free of ice. An ancient cartographer marked a mountain chain there. The name of the cartographer was known: an admiral of the Ottoman Empire fleet, Piri Reis, who lived in the first half of 16th century.



The map's authenticity was without doubt. Graphology examinations of the notes on the margin confirmed that they belonged to the admiral.



In 1949, a combined British and Swedish expedition conducted intensive seismic measurements of the South Pole through the ice cap. According to the commander of 8th Technical Investigation Squadron of the US Armed Force Strategic Command, Colonel Harold Olmayer, " the geographical details of the bottom part of the map (the shore of Antarctica) correspond with the results of the seismic measurements. We cannot correlate these data with the supposed level of geography in 1513."



In his notes on the map's margin, made in the early 16th century, Piri Reis explained that he was not responsible for the cartography and that the map was based on earlier sources. Some of these "earlier sources" belong to his contemporaries (for example, to Christopher Columbus), while others could be dated to the 4th century B. C. Not later, because one of these sources belonged to Alexander the Great.



Of course, professional historians who specialize in ancient history could say the following: "This is only one more hypothesis. What about documentary and, what is more desirable, trust-worthy sources? The opinion of the Turkish admiral and notes on a margin You know, it is too disputable!"



Therefore, I would like to present the position of the late historian and professor of Keene College in New Hampshire, USA, Charles H. Hapgood. In the late 1959, he found in the Washington Congressional Library a map created by Orontheus Phynius in 1531. Orontheus Phynius depicted Antarctica with mountains and rivers, without glaciers. The relief of the continent's center was not marked, which, according to Hapgood, could mean that there had been an ice cap in that area.



In the early 1960s, Phynius' map was studied by Doctor Richard Stratchen of the Massachusetts Technology Institute together with Hapgood. Both scientists concluded that Phynius had indeed depicted Antarctica free of ice. The characteristics depicted were very close to the information that was obtained in 1958 by specialists from different countries.



Gerard Cremer, known in the world as Mercator, also trusted Orontheus' evidence. He included the Phynius map into his atlas, in which several maps of Antarctica by Mercator himself were also included. There is one interesting feature: on Mercator's map of 1569, the west shore of South America is pictured less accurately than on the earlier map of Mercator from 1538. The reasons for this contradiction are the following: while working at the earlier map, the cartographer of 16th century proceeded from ancient sources, which were not kept for our time, and while working at the later map, he proceeded from observations of the first Spanish explorers to South America. Gerard Mercato's mistake can be excused. In the 16th century, there were no precise methods to measure longitude: as a rule, an error could have been hundreds of kilometers!



Finally, we come to Philippe Boiche, full member of the French Academy of Science. In 1737, he published his map of Antarctica. Boiche presented a precise picture of Antarctica of the time when the continent was free of ice. On his map, the under-ice topography of the continent is presented, about which our civilization had no clear idea until 1958. Moreover, based on now-lost sources, the French academician depicted in the middle of the South Pole a body of water dividing it into two sub-continents, which were situated to the west and to the east from the line, where the Trans-Antarctic Mountains are now marked. According to the investigation in the framework of International Geophysical Year (1958), Antarctic is in fact an archipelago of large islands covered with 1.5-kilometers of ice.



Medieval maps show Antarctica without an ice cap or partially covered with ice. The precision of the 16th century cartographers was very high and even surprising. Their data surpassed the technical possibilities even of the late Middle Ages (for example, the determination of the longitude of a relief within one minute). This level was reached by mankind in the late 18th century, while in some cases, the 20th.



Scientists cannot comment on the high scientific level of medieval cartography. Information from almost 2000-year-old primary sources is supposed to be not well-founded.



Orthodox geology claimed that the age of the Antarctica ice cap was at least 25 million years; however, recently, it has been reduced to six million years.



Therefore, we should notice the following feature of the Reis map: the shore of the continent was free of ice. On the Phynius map, made 18 years after the Reis map, there is an ice cap around the South Pole within the limits of 80th and the 75th parallels. Two hundred years later, academician Boiche depicted Antarctica with glaciers.



The conclusion is obvious: we can see the process of the spreading of glaciers on the southern continent.



In 1949, Admiral Baird's expedition bore holes into the Ross Sea in three spots, where Orontheus Phynius marked river-beds. In the cuts, fine-grained layers were found, obviously brought to the sea with rivers, whose sources were situated in temperate latitudes (i.e. free of glaciers).



While using the nuclear dating method of doctor U. Oury from the Karnegy Institute in Washington, scientists discovered that Antarctica's rivers, which were sources of fine-dyspersated deposits, were flowing as depicted on the Phynius map, about 6,000 years ago. About 4000 years B. C., glacial sediments started to accumulate on the bottom of Ross Sea. Kernels show that before this, there was a long warm period.



Therefore, the maps of Reis, Phynius, and Mercator present Antarctica when the ancient Egyptian and Shumer civilizations were newborn. This point of view is excluded by almost all professional historians and could be regarded as an operating hypothesis that cannot be verified. Any historian would say that there were no civilization of the kind in the late 5th millenium B. C. According to Doctor Jacob Hock from Illinois University, the deposits in-question could be 6 to 12 thousand years old.



In September 1991, US and Egyptian archaeologists discovered at a distance of 13 km from Nile River, in Abidos, 12 large boats that belonged to Pharaohs of First Dynasty. The age of the boats is about 5,000 years. They are believed to be the most ancient vessels in the world, the leader of the expedition, D. O'Connor far, the find is estimated to be aimed for religious rites.



According to Herodotus, ancient Egyptians tracked stars more than 10,000 years ago. This statement of the "father of history" is supposed to be esoteric and, therefore, not true. However, land nations seldom produced astronomers. The fact that ancient Egyptians were interested in astronomy may indicate that they inherited some knowledge from an unknown civilization of navigators.



Workers of US technical intelligence determined the projection center of the Piri Reis map, whose data belongs to 4000 year B. C. The projection center was supposedly situated near today's Cairo. At that time, according to most historians, all then-existing nations were at a very low level of development.



Between the 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth that possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was no less advanced than that that of the 18th century.



This civilization preceded our civilization, and it was not an extraterrestrial one. Its age could be several thousands years, while its location was probably on the northern shore of the most southern continent, or archipelago: Antarctica. Later, this civilization may have resettled to the north-east of Africa.



The reason for the death of the civilization was the covering of Antarctica with glaciers. This process started no earlier not than in 10th millenium B. C. It cannot be excluded that there were also large-scale floods, which were regular and cause long-term local deluges (this is confirmed by archaeologists). These disasters could have destroyed most of the civilization's cultural objects. However, some fragments might be found in the future under the thickness of ice. It can also be assumed that the survivors of Antarctica kept and handed down knowledge to the ancient Egyptians.



Therefore, if there will ever be an extensive exploration of Antarctica, mankind will most likely be surprised with the results.


Translated by Vera Solovieva

Pravda.Ru


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 26, 2007, 11:47:24 am







                                                   Atlantes Still Alive



                   They live in their underwater cities and sometimes frighten people.



Everybody knows about UFOs. And what about UUOs? I mean, Unknown Underwater Objects? The Paseidon kingdom sometimes surprises sailors with fluorescent heads, devil circles and other miracles. Explorer Fedor Gard recorded evidence of sailors who had seen a strange phenomenon: "June 18, 1845, the vessel Viktoria crew saw in Mediterranean Sea three dazzling disks emerging. The disks seemed to be five times bigger than the Moon, and they were linked with each other with some thin fluorescent pivots."



Another piece of evidence originates from 1963: within four days sailors of the Wosp US aircraft-carrier and of five escort vessels saw during the manoeuvres near to Puerto Rico shore a mysterious object which moved under water with a high speed. The sailors tried to "break" it, though without effect.



July 20, 1967, at a distance of 120 miles from Brazil shore, an Argentine vessel captain wrote in his log book: "We saw a fluorescent object at a distance of 50 feet from the right board. It had a cigar shape and was 105 to 110 feet long. A strong white-blue radiance emanated from the object which produced no sound and left no track on water. It was moving for about 15 minutes simultaneously with the ship, then dove and moved under the ship and disappeared at all."



Some "fire dances" were observed in 1977 by the crew of the cruise motor ship Anton Makarneko in tropical waters. "Dancing circles" were described in 1976 by the crew of the Akademik Vorobiev vessel, while the echo-sounder registered some object presenting at a depth of 20 metres. Even Thor Heyerdahl saw similar phenomena (in particular, he writes about some round heads of 60-70 cm in diameter, which did not move and looked the sailors with their big aflame eyes).



So, what are these objects? Nobody can say it. In 19th century, scientists Adams and Jenkins assumed some intelligent creatures with gills live under water, accustomed to low temperatures and overpressure. Moreover, according to an old legend, in ancient times, there were Paseidonians living in ocean who were the human kind enlighteners. The underwater civilization representatives were not similar to Apollo.



Paseidonians are said to have taught Atlantes all science, so they even could travel in space. A woman from the city of Dnepropetrovsk who is said to have contacts with the extraterrestrial, got information about some mysterious civilization founded by extraterrestrial and called Atsor. Their descedants, who knew Solar System laws, forecasted a monster catastrophe which would put an end to their civilization. So, they built houses under ocean bottom. They resettled to their new houses before the cataclysm and still live there. While on the earth surface, only their probes can be observed, that above-mentioned underwater objects.



Vesti

Pravda.RU

Translated by Vera Solovieva


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 26, 2007, 11:49:08 am







                                                 Atlantis Will Be Found





05/26/2003 11:19

Russian researchers have held the Second Congress of Atlantis Explorers in Moscow.



Has legendary Atlantis ever existed? Russian explorers and researchers have recently held a meeting in Moscow in order to discuss the material about the legendary continent and share their opinion with each other. Alexander Voronin, the director of the Russian association for studying Atlantis's problems stated at the meeting that Atlantis would be found. Alexander Voronin added that various findings in different parts of the planet proved the certainty of finding the lost continent.



Remains of the "big land" have been found in the water area of the Brazilian island of Sao Paulo; an undestroyed temple of thousands years old has been found in the sea not far from Europe. Voronin believes that such findings testify to the existence of a "central kingdom and numerous islands, on which ten Atlas brothers lived."



Participants of the meeting stated that there had been a lot of evidence collected to prove the existence of Atlantis. Researchers believe that one has to continue the quest, looking for other discoveries. As far as the significance of the lost continent's existence is concerned, Alexander Gorodnitsky, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences said that the discovery of Atlantis might change the concept of nature and life development on planet Earth. Gorodnitsky believes that the proved existence of supreme civilizations in the past will make the up-to-date Darwinist society reconsider its views. Alexander Gorodnitsky has been on several expeditions to the places, where Atlantis allegedly existed. He still hopes to organize a targeted mission in order to study the problem in detail. "I am sure that this issue is extremely complicated and important, so one has to deal with it seriously, on a serious scientific level," Gorodnitsky was quoted as saying.



RIAN

Read the original in Russian: http://science.pravda.ru/science/2003/6/18/50/10696_atlantida.html (Translated by: Dmitry Sudakov)

Pravda.Ru


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 26, 2007, 11:51:51 am







Searching for the Lost Continent

07/09/2003 16:45



Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores.



Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday.  This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.



Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.



You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?



It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.



We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.



Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.



The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.



I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.



Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.



It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.



Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!



Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?



They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.



Read the original in Russian: (Translated by: Dmitry Sudakov)

Pravda.Ru


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on November 29, 2007, 06:32:41 pm






                                                RESEARCHES BY THE SOVIETS





Ancient remains in the Atlantic, in 1979

Announcement of the discovery of the sunken Amber mountain, in 1984

The discovery of a smooth marble plate in 1985.


During the end of March in 1979, some Soviet researchers announced the success of their research in the Atlantic Ocean by saying “Plato showed us the way to the lost Atlantis”. The soviet boat of underwater researches, named “Vityaz”, anchored to the river Tagus of Portugal. Dr. Andrey Aksenov, assistant manager of the Institute of Oceanography of Soviet Academy, called reporters on the boat and announced a discovery:
"In the sea area, 900 km from the Portugal coasts, there have been found, on a sunken mountain, a plateau in strange formations. After a close examination with our scientific instruments, we discovered that in this area there are remains, probably of a sunken city. We spotted almost clearly half-demolished walls and giant stairs, even if they were covered with seaweed and other sea plants. We took many photos, by which eight of them show the huge symmetrical escalation, and they will be sent to Moscow for special elaboration...."

The Soviets of “Vityaz” told to Mr Vaskonselo, manager of the National Fishing Institute of Portugal, that they are certain they have discovered a sunken part of the lost Atlantis. Dr. Aksenov also mentioned that this discovery is only the beginning of a whole research which will be centered to this place of the Atlantic. Besides, this is the place that Plato defined the existence and disappearance of Atlantis.

The research boat “Vityaz” continued its mission by scanning the bottom of the Atlantic, westward of Madera. In this area, under the surface of the sea, it is extended the mountain Amber. It is a strange mountain in the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean and due to its shape attracts all those Atlantologists, who study Atlantis by Plato scripts.

In 1984 the Soviets of “Vityaz” finished their long researches and gave the information that the mountain Amber, found beneath water, has once been a large island above the surface of the sea.

Unfortunately, they did not announce the details and evidence on which they had been based...

In September 1985, there has been announced by the soviet and foreign tabloids that the Russians pulled out of 4500 meters in the Atlantic, a strange piece of marble. The research was carried out by the oceanographers of the soviet boat “Academic Boris Petrov”.

This discovery has troubled a lot the research group of the boat.

From the very early studies on this object, it has been found out that it was a smooth plate of marble colored from both sides in white-yellowish. Its shape proves that it had been smoothed by a man. They estimated that this object exists in the ocean for many thousand years. Leon Hitrov, scientist of the Soviet Academy of Sciences and chief of the mission pointed out:

“This finding is of great importance. I will personally take on its analysis in the Laboratory of Analytic Chemistry and Geochemistry of the Soviet Academy of Sciences. This scientific test will show if the plate was a part of a structure of an unknown civilization or if according to all evidence, it comes from the legendary and powerful nation of the Atlantians”.

Unfortunately, the Soviet Academy of Sciences, from all we know, has not announced something officially. There are rumors that the “secret” researches continue in the Atlantic Ocean, not only by Russians but by Americans.



http://www.atlantida.gr/Eng/engSovietResearch.htm#research
 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on December 31, 2007, 07:30:58 pm
  Re: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2007, 05:13:39 pm » Quote Modify 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 08-12-2004 12:43 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the link, Riven, here is one for you. This is more information on the Russian discoveries of Atlantis, though still no pictures:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter3_2.htm


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soviet Case for Atlantis
On the 27th of March 1979, the Soviet vessel, of oceanographic research, "Vityaz" was found at the delta of the Portugeuese river Tago. During the same night journalists from all over the country and abroad, would listen to Dr. Ascenov's scientific announcements regarding the results of their research in the Atlantic.
After the necessary introduction to the journalists, the Soviet oceanologist announced some peculiar results regarding their research within the Atlantic ocean.

" In an Area that is located 900 kilometers off the Portuguese shores, an underwater plateau was identified, with strange formations. The plateau is on top of an underwater mountain. After extensive research and based to the measurements of our scientific equipment, we have identified possible ruins of a submerged city. We clearly identified destroyed walls and gigantic stairs. And although all these items are covered with loads of marine plants, we managed to take clear photos of the area. The photos are showing symmetrical stone constructions, staircases and other remains. All this material will be sent to Moscow for further analysis".
     
this short announcement, the soviet scientists revealed to the journalists, that they could have probably found Atlantis.
The Soviet vessel continued its mission searching the oceanic floor west of Madeira.

Close to this area there is an underwater mountain called "Amber". Five years later, in 1984 when the Soviet scientists concluded their research, they announced that "Amber" mountain, once was an island that was eventually submerged without giving any more information.

In September of the following year (1985) "Pravda" reported that the Soviets had pulled out of the ocean, from a depth of 4,500 meters a strange piece of marble. This discovery was made by another Soviet vessel: "Academic Boris Petrov". This new finding, puzzled the scientists.
The marble artifact's sides were smoothened. Its color was yellowish. Its schema betrayed artificial origin. The Soviet scientists mentioned that it was definitely man-made. By chemical analysis they produced palaeochronology results, showing that this piece of marble was lying at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years (the experimental procedure unfortunately was not published).

The leading scientist of the Soviet Academy of Science, Leo Chitrov declared that he would personally head the research for the chemical analysis of the find. Since then, the Soviet Academy never announced anything regarding the results.   


FROM

ATLANTIS IN THE ATLANTIC

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5655.30.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on December 31, 2007, 07:37:31 pm






dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 08-14-2004 05:34 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Riven,
Here is an interview with one of the Russian scientists who visited the Ampere Seamounts in the 1980's. Apparently, they have been there in 1974, 1978, 1984 and 1986. That's a lot of visits, and the information in the article seems to correspond with the recent interest in the area of the ocean just to the east. I read a quote today from Dr. Maxine Asher's website where she also says that there are "four sunken cities in the area just to the west of Gibraltar."


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Searching for the Lost Continent
07/09/2003 16:45



Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores.
Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday.  This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.
Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.
Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.

Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.


FROM

ATLANTIS IN THE ATLANTIC


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5655.45.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Desiree on January 25, 2008, 11:15:21 pm
Back in the 1970s, the Russians made publicity by stating that they found undersea ruins near the Ampere Seamounts.  Some of the pictures ended up in the books by Charles Berlitz!  The original reports and pictures have ended up being a Holy Grail of sorts for Atlantis researchers.

To make a long story short, I found out that this material came into the possession of Edgerton Sykes and that he willed his entire Atlantis collection to the A.R.E. when he died. 

Awhile ago, I asked Dr. Greg Little of the A.R.E. to check on that information and se if there was anything useful in it!  Over the holiday break, he got the chance to do so and here is what he found:

"We were in Virginia Beach over New Years and spent two days in the Edgerton Sykes room copying and videotaping from his files. One of the early Bimini skeptics, John Gifford, was interviewed about the Bimini columns after he examined them in the 1970s. Gifford described the fluted marble columns and related that they appear to be directly linked to 3000-year old temples in the Mediterranean. Phoenician trading was cited. Secondly, Sykes had a huge amount of material regarding the Russian underwater explorations in the Mid-Atlantic. I wasn't aware that the Russians actually did so many followups to it all. The initial report they put out related that some of the things they found might be manmade. This is cited all the time. But, there were a host of follow-up articles by the same researchers, and they conclusively showed that everything they had seen on the bottom was natural. They had a lot of photos and scientific reports on it, most of which never were available in the US--and none of it is on the internet. Sykes also had a lot of books and articles on Atlantis in Spain, Cadiz, Andelucia, etc, etc., etc. Incredible. Not a new theory anywhere as every possible place is covered in these books even Israel, the UK, -- you name it. Sykes seemed convinced that Atlantis was primarily in the Bahamas-Carribean area, but it had remnants spread out all over the globe.

There were at least three followup articles with photos. They concluded it was all natural. There were some photos. It all looked interesting, but it looked natural."


I'd like to see the info on this myself someday, but I trust Greg's opinion on this, so that verdict is good enough for me.  It's a disappointment, but, in the end, I would much rather know the truth than hold onto a fantasy! 

Desiree


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on January 26, 2008, 09:37:24 am






Well, Desi, THAT may not be the end of the story.

Here is THE HUTTON COMMENTARIES' latest on the Mid Atlantic Ridge


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,6614.0.html


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on August 26, 2008, 11:43:12 am








Carolyn Silver
Hero Member

Posts: 534



    Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores

« on: July 28, 2008, 11:25:25 pm » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







                     Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores






Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday. This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.

Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.

Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.

Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.



http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10446_.html 


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Arcturus on September 06, 2008, 12:03:24 pm
It's a shame that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is too deep to do any real research at it. Work there is so expensive that only big corporations and the military ever gets to it.  Of course neither would be very forthcoming when it comes to archaeology.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:41:45 am








Gwen Parker
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     Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« on: October 11, 2008, 07:02:32 pm » Quote 

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(Courtesy of Mark, this is the original 1978 article that ran in the New York Times, discussing the findings of ruins purported to be the remains of Atlantis.  I am typing the whole thing manually as we only have it in PDF form at the moment)


Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis

By Craig Whitney

Special to the New York Times

Moscow, May 20 - Plato, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and all you science fiction writers who have puzzled over the lost Continent of Atlantis, move over for Prof. Andrei Arkadyevich Aksyonov.

Soviet scientists may maintain that the so-called Bermuda Triangle, an area in the Atlantic where mysterious disappearances of ships and planes is said to have occurred, is nothing but water and that flying saucers are optical illusions. But Prof. Aksyonov says he has photographs of man-made stone walls and staircases at a depth of about 200 feet in the Atlantic Ocean, 275 miles southwest of the Portuguese coast. 

Maybe.

"It's possible that it's a part of Atlantis, maybe not the whole thing, but a part," Dr. Aksynov said.  He is a man of established scientific reputation, a deputy director of the Institute of Oceanology of the Soviet Academy of Sciences.

His evidence, he concedes, is limited:  two pictures showing eleven stones that he believes bear the mark of human handiwork.

(Continued)


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:43:41 am








Gwen Parker
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     Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2008, 07:17:03 pm » Quote 

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The photographs were taken two years ago, not by Dr. Aksyonov but by a colleague, Vladimir I. Marakuyev.

(Photo here)

The New York Times, May 21, 1979

A Soviet Scientist said he found ruins on the Ampere Searmouts

with a submersible camera on the submerged summit of the Ampere Seamount, a dormant volcano midway between Lisbon and the Madeira archipelago.  The ocean floor around the seamount is more than 10,000 feet below the surface.

In his office at the institute, D. Aksyonov said recently that he was sorry but he could not show the pictures.  "They belong to Marakuyev, and he is very sick with a heart condition in the hospital," he said.  "I think they'll be published in one of our scientific journals sometime soon."

Mr. Marakyev apparently did not realize what he had until late last year, when he got around to developing film from a 1977 exploration of the seamount that he had made in the Soviet research vessel Moskovsky Universitet.  "I don't why it took him so long to get to them," Dr, Aksyonov said.


An offer of Directions

He will not say he has discovered Atlantis, but he offers free directions to anybody else who wants to.  "All you would have to do is take a ship with the right equipment to the Ampere Seamount, go down 60 meters, find the stones and bring them up to see if they are manmade or not," he said.  "It's my personal opinion that they are."


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:45:15 am







Gwen Parker
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     Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 07:26:38 pm » Quote 

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Accounts of the discovery were published in Europe earlier this spring, and Dr. Aksyonov says they brought amused smiles from oceanographer colleagues in Den mark. 

"I asked them, 'Did any of you believe this?'  They said 'No,' and they said they laughed a lot."

As he describes the pictures, of a total of eight, only two are really interesting.


'Typical Wall From Antiquity'

"One of them shows eight stones - four square ones and four rounded ones in a line about three and a half or four feet long," he said.  "Specialists who've looked at it say it's a typical wall from antiquity.  The second photo shows three equally spaced stones at the left-hand edge, and it appears to be part of a staircase."

Dr. Akysonov just returned from an unrelated oceanographic cruise in his research ship, the Vityaz.

(Continued)


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:47:01 am







Gwen Parker
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     Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 08:06:46 pm » Quote 

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"Heinrich Schliemann, the great 19th-century German archeologist, found the ruins of Troy by studying the poetry of Homer very attentively," he said.  Mr. Schliemann, too, got a skeptical reaction at first.

Atlantis was described in two of his dialogues, the Timaeus and the Critias.  "Plato says it was located in the Atlantic Ocean and on an island and that tribes living on it took part in wars in southern Europe and in North Africa before one day the island sank between walls of water," Dr. Aksyonov said.  "I believe that the objects in the pictures once stood on the surface too, though specialists say it's difficult to believe the seamount could have sunk so far," he said.


Cities Lisbon Earthquake

He says that the catastrophc earthquake in Lisbon in 1755 caused a tidal wave and a flood that left part of the city forever beneath the sea.  Something similar, he surmises, may have happened to an island of which the Ampere Seamount would be the submarine remnant.

The legends around Atlantis have been nourished over the centuries.  It has been variously located in America, Scandinavia, the Middle East and the Canary Islands, 500 miles south of the Ampere Seamount.

"The ocean is full of mysteries," Dr. Aksyonov says.  "And our investigations are the beginning of our understanding."

Published May 21, 1979
Copyright the New York Times


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:49:49 am







Gwen Parker
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     Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 08:12:51 pm » Quote 

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From dhill757:

3.2 The Discovery of the Russians

It is suggested that Atlantis did not sink into the sea but rather was “drowned” by the ocean due to the rising waters brought about by the melting of the glacial ice. There is an implication that the present small islands where Atlantis once existed might be found on seamounts, plateaus and marine valleys surrounding it and in underwater traces of buildings or walls indicating the existence of an advance culture in the past. Russian underwater research provided certain measure of corroboration for this theory.

Russia , although far from the Atlantic Ocean maintained interest in the Atlantic and in the tradition of the lost continent of Atlantis. An expedition carried out by the Academician Petrovsky, a Russian research ship, photographed seafloor topography and archaeological relics where legendary Atlantis was supposedly located. The aim and the result of the expedition, which took place in the early part of 1974, was summarized by Barinova and appeared in Znanie-Sila (no.8, 1979).

On board the ship were geologists, biologists and an underwater photograph specialist named Ivanovich Marakuev who studied the sandbanks of Mediterranean Sea shallow waters and of the Atlantic Ocean not far from the Northwest Africa . It is the origin, structure and population of the sandbanks, the peaks of underwater mountains that are the prime scientific interest of those specialists.



Photos taken at the Horse Archipelago (300 miles west of Gibraltar ) especially at the summit of Ampere Seamount, an underwater plateau that was thrust upwards from a depth of 10,000 ft. to 200 ft. below the sea level showed unexpected features. These pictures show masonry on an upper edge of a wall. It is about 1.5 meters high and slightly longer in length. Its width is approximately 75 centimeters (Berlitz, 1984).

The Russian discovery at the Ampere Seamount was not published for several years until worldwide publicity came in 1978 via an interview of Prof. Andrei Aksyonov, then the deputy director of the Institute of Oceanography of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Prof. Aksyonov while cautious on the Atlantean identification of the ruins believed that the objects in the picture once stood on the surface of the land . An AP release issued by Alexander Nesterenko, then the director of the Fleet Department of the Institute of Oceanography , confirmed the report that the Russian research ship has taken pictures of “ what might be ruins” but denied reports that Vityaz, another research ship was investigating the same site. (See Image 4)
 
http://www.keystonecode.net/research8.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:52:14 am









Arcturus
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    Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 11:16:46 pm » Quote 

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I see that there was a follow-up on this, in a 1981 publication.  I couldn't get the article, but at least the discovery didn't vanish from the news:

Atlantis found -- again

When Soviet oceanographers examined their underwater photos taken of the Ampere Seamount, they discovered what seemed to be walls, stairways, and other artificial stonework. The Ampere Seamount is 450 miles west of Gibraltar, just the area where Plato placed Atlantis!

(Anonymous; "Undersea Discovery May Be Atlantis," Baltimore Sun, April 5, 1981. AP item.)



From Science Frontiers #15, Spring 1981. © 1981-2000 William R. Corliss


http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf015/sf015p04.htm


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:54:15 am









Desiree
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    Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 04:00:06 am » Quote 

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Hi all,

I'll add my reply from Greg Little last year on this as he actually went to Virginia Beach (where the Sykes material now resides with the A.R.E.).  It seems to be the only real wrap-up we got from the Russians:


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« Sent to: Desiree on: January 13, 2008, 05:20:28 pm »
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"The Phoenican ship in itself is an incredible find!  That alone could be the subject of it's own documentary.  When will you try and verify that it's Phoenician and release the info to the public?"

Reply: What we found was a pile of ruins from a white marble temple. Then we found through library research that it had been previously found and investigated and that the ribs of an 1800's ship were under the marble. Oddly, the night before we left our house for Virginia Beach to present the finds at a conference, Andrew Collins was staying with us. We discovered, to our amazement, another 1970s tv-documentary video piece on the marble. It stated that the Phoenician ship is under the ship with the marble on it!! Again, I'm clueless beyond that. I had long wondered about the source of the "Phoenician ship at Bimini" report--and I do not know if it's valid. We do not have plans to revisit it--there is just too much else to do. (A lot of confusion was caused by the 1970s researchers because they had no reliable way to refind something--they ad no gps. So the kept finding and losing sites that were later refound by someone else and then lost again.)

I'll add two more items. We were in Virginia Beach over New Years and spent two days in the Edgerton Sykes room copying and videotaping from his files. One of the early Bimini skeptics, John Gifford, was interviewed about the Bimini columns after he examined them in the 1970s. Gifford described the fluted marble columns and related that they appear to be directly linked to 3000-year old temples in the Mediterranean. Phoenician trading was cited. Secondly, Sykes had a huge amount of material regarding the Russian underwater explorations in the Mid-Atlantic. I wasn't aware that the Russians actually did so many followups to it all. The initial report they put out related that some of the things they found might be manmade. This is cited all the time. But, there were a host of follow-up articles by the same researchers, and they conclusively showed that everything they had seen on the bottom was natural. They had a lot of photos and scientific reports on it, most of which never were available in the US--and none of it is on the internet. Sykes also had a lot of books and articles on Atlantis in Spain, Cadiz, Andelucia, etc, etc., etc. Incredible. Not a new theory anywhere as every possible place is covered in these books even Israel, the UK, -- you name it. Sykes seemed convinced that Atlantis was primarily in the Bahamas-Carribean area, but it had remnants spread out all over the globe.

"As for the wall at Joulters, do you have any notion what it might be, any speculation?  What are it's dimensions, by the way?"

Reply: The wall, at least as far as we can tell, is about 300-400 yards long and curving before it disappears into the sand. The intact area of it is about 4-6 ft wide and 5-6 feet high as it comes off the bottom, but there are more stones below the sandy bottom. The first impression is that it could have been a high quality seawall of some sort, but the stone blocks are really nice. There is also a large flat area 30x30 feet formed by blocks. It isn't a pirate construction and it isn't modern. I remain stumped beyond that.

Dr. Michael Faught, former Chair of FSU's underwater archaeology department has accepted an offer to speak at the ARE October 9-12, 2008. See: http://www.edgarcayce.org/conferences/index.asp

"When will the documentary be out and do you have a title for it yet?"

Title: American Mysteries: The 40-Year Search for Edgar Cayce's Atlantis.

It is going to be shopped around to tv markets, starting in 2 months. If it can't be sold it'll be available as the first episode in a dvd series--around October.


Title: Re: The Russians' Findings
Post by: Bianca on October 21, 2008, 07:56:54 am







Warhammer
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    Re: Soviet Scientist Says Ocean Site May Be Atlantis (1978)
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 09:59:50 pm » Quote 

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What a shame that one of these Mid to East Atlantic discoveries has yet to pan out! 



http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,13305.0.html