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the Occult => Communicating with the Dead => Topic started by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:50:02 pm



Title: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:50:02 pm
Author  Topic: Communicating with the Dead 
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 09:50 PM                       
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This is a subject that has intrigued me ever since I saw the movie, "Houdini" back as a kid. Of course, Houdini was a great escape artist and magician who lived back in the 1920's. Very close to his mother, very close to his wife, too, and when he died he swore he would comunicate with his wife Bess from beyond the grave "if it were at all possible." Despite numerous seances, including one back in the 1930's that caused a stir, he never really did. For ages, people have been trying to communicate with the dead. In the 1800's, as soon as photograpy came along, people were already seeing spirits as part of the film. And that "white noise" on the TV set after all the channels go off, is also supposed to be a method wherein the dead are trying to communicate with us.
There is an afterlife, I'm convinced of that. The question is, is it a good one? The jury is still out on that one...


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:51:12 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 09:52 PM                       
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Dead Machines:
A review of The Ghost Orchid and electromagnetic voice phenomena
by Erik Davis

Originally ran in Revolting, August 1999

From the moment that human beings started communicating with electrical and electromagnetic signals, the ether has been a spooky place. Four years after Samuel Morse strung up his first telegraph wire in 1844, two young girls in upstate New York kick-started Spiritualism, a massively popular occult religion which attempted to fuse science and seance. One of the movement's main newspapers was called "The Celestial Telegraph," and many of the spirits contacted by mediums were electricity geeks. Totally legit scientists like Thomas Edison, the radiographer Sir Oliver Lodge, and Sir William Crookes (inventor of the cathode ray tube you are probably reading this on) all suspected that spirits were real and that the afterlife was electromagnetic in nature. Edison even built a device to communicate directly with the dead.

Now, you may think that this ghoulish dial-tweaking has gone the way of the dousing rod, but electromagnetic spiritualism is alive and well (so is the dousing rod, but that's another story). Today aficionados call it Electronic Voice Phenomena, or EVP, and Ash International has just released the first CD devoted to EVP, an import-only disc called The Ghost Orchid. According to the copious notes included with the disc, the first official EVP recording was made in the late 1950s by Friedrich Jurgenson, a Swedish spiritualist who listened to a magnetic recording he'd made of twittering birds and heard strange humanoid voices appearing out of nowhere. In the 1960s, Konstantin Raudive made tens of thousands of similar tapes, all featuring unexplainable voices that intruded into radio broadcasts and other signals. According to one article in The Ghost Orchid, Raudive also "continued to aid research by communicating himself after he had died."

So what do these voices sound like? Some are polyglot mixtures of languages, others sing, others just bark garbled or surrealistic phrases like "dead machines" and "We can see Edith by radio," some of which apparently refer directly to the experimenter. Unfortunately, hearing these snippets here can be rather underwhelming. Listening to a CD just ain't the same as rewinding a freshly made magnetic tape and feeling the hairs raise on your skin, because we as listeners don't hear anomalous intrusions -- we just hear voices. It's like listening to another person describe some synchronicity they experienced; often, the subjective flash of numinous weirdness that surrounds such events is utterly lost. On The Ghost Orchid, this problem is only heightened by an earnest German fellow who regularly butts in in order to explain what we are about to hear.

One thing's for sure: these creepy and somewhat goofy voices sure don't sound like your Gramma, let alone the angels or ETs that some proponents embrace as the most likely explanation for the phenomena. But today a more skeptical or "subjectivist" breed of paranormal Heisenbergs are stepping up to the plate. Rejecting the belief that the voices are objective evidence of spirits, these folks chalk up EVP to the mind of the experimenter, though they differ on the exact mechanism involved. Some believe that researchers use some unexplained psychic power to charge tapes with their own mental vibrations, while others see the voices as aural Rorschach blots -- the sonic equivalent of seeing faces in clouds.

Once EVP researchers free themselves from the musty axioms of Spiritualism, they often come to discover that eerie chatter can be squeezed out of all sorts of non-radio sources, including digitally merged soundfiles and commercial prerecorded material. One group took a CD recording of Donizetti's Le Fille de Regiment, superimposed two reversed random sections from the opera and...Voila! Weird German mumblings from beyond.

Like the Ouija board, EVP is at heart a DIY affair, especially now that computers have given us studios-in-a-box. EVP may become the occult hobby for sample fiends and electronica home-brewers everywhere, and The Ghost Orchid assures us that some of these voices have already appeared on obscure digital tracks. Interestingly, one of the most important requirements for good EVP is the presence of noise: a distorted channel, interference, echo, superimposition. In other words, all the active elements of our current hip-hop/dub mixology are designed to receive these spectral messages. No wonder the stuff can put you into another world.
http://www.techgnosis.com/deadmachine.html


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:51:41 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 09:54 PM                       
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quote:
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The Ouija Board
Most people know this but I want to state a point here. The movie "The Exorcist" was, in fact, based on a true story. The victim though, was a Jesuit boy who, back in the late 40's (if memory serves correctly) began playing with the Ouija Board. He was duped into thinking that who or what he was talking to was a "playmate" and when his invisible friend asked of he could come in and join him, the boy agreed... the invitation the spirit needed to manifest. Over time, the boy became possessed by this spirit and went through numerous exorcisms by the Roman Catholics before finally being freed. Supposedly, the possessing spirit was a devil by the name of Beelzebub who, in theology, is one of the most powerful devils under Lucifer. All this, on historical record, because of a "game".

The Pendulum

To be brief here, the pendulum is, for intent and purpose, the same as the Ouija Board. It's sole function is spirit communication but is far less common nowadays than the ouija board. Like the name suggests, the only major difference between the two is the pointing device used. While the ouija board uses a planchette, normally a triangular shaped device with a crystal, glass, or plastic windows to display the letter to be annotated, the pendulum uses a pointed weight at the end of a line, acting as a pendulum would, to point to the letter of interest. The letters and numbers are often configured differently than a ouija board but in functionality, it's all the same. As with the ouija board, the outcome varies according to the actual intent of the user.

Automatic Writing and Channeling

Of all the various forms of spirit communication, I would consider automatic writing and "channeling" the most potentially dangerous forms. What is channeling? Channeling is, in effect, possession. It's possession with a purpose. Channeling in performed by a person who typically, has good natural psychic abilities. The goal behind channeling is to allow a foreign spirit to actually possess, or take over, the receptor for the purpose of direct verbal or written communication and on rare occasions, in demonology aspects, to enable a direct exorcism of the foreign spirit. What is Automatic Writing? "True" automatic writing is, in most aspects, the same as channeling. The receptor allows a foreign spirit to enter him or her to enable it to directly write out its thoughts or comments. Neither channeling or automatic writing should ever take place without experienced supervision, because it is actually a form of possession, someone should always be available to help should anything go wrong. At times however, either of these can happen spontaneously to an inexperienced psychic who has not learned how to "shut down" when their gifts are not needed.

Séances

There is one huge difference between the ouija board and a séance... a séance is designed around one basic fact... the invitation. A person using a ouija board does not necessarily invite anything initially, they typically ask if "anyone" is present. The séance's purpose is to invite a spirit. That can prove to be very dangerous. I highly recommend to anyone who insists on conducting séances, that they have a good psychic in the group, who will be able to determine the TRUE nature of the spirit, if one actually manifests. If the group were to invite, either knowingly or not, a negative, inhuman spirit, they may have started a process they would have never dreamed possible, the infestation, haunting, and torment of one or all of the people involved. What I find most often is, sadly, most people conducting séances do not take their action seriously enough, expecting to have a good time and go home when their done. Most of the time that IS the case but unfortunately not always.

Crystallomancy

Crystallomancy is the staring into a glass window, pool of water, mirror, or any other shiny, transparent, or reflective object to induce self-hypnosis (staring into the fire of a fireplace or candle has the same effect). The famous scenes of the gypsy staring into her crystal ball for the answers to all your questions and telling you your future. Many people believe that by inducing self-hypnosis by any means of crystallomancy, they are putting themselves on the same level as the spirits and are able to communicate or receive information directly to or from them. Another form of this is called the psychomanthium, where the person enters a dark room or closet (or the like) lit only by dim red lights and sits directly in from of a mirror. This method often is used to summon or contact darker forms of spirits.

On the opposite side of the coin, instead of a person staring into a window or the like, you will often find pictures on the internet or on television where a ghost or apparition is seen in a window, as if looking out of it. This is the same type of effect, in reverse. "Mirror, mirror on the wall..." remember that?


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http://www.demonhunter.btinternet.co.uk/communicating.htm
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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:54:04 pm
 
Trent

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Member # 2174

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   posted 01-17-2005 09:56 PM                       
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In 1901, US ethnologist Waldemar Bogoras traveled to Siberia to visit a shaman of the Tchouktchi tribe. In a darkened room, he observed a spirit conjuring ritual. The shaman beat a drum more and more rapidly, putting himself in a trance state. Startled, Bogoras heard strange voices filling the room. The voices seemed to come from all corners and spoke English and Russian. After the session, Bogoras wrote, “I set up my equipment so I could record without light. The shaman sat in the furthest corner of the room, approximately 20 feet away from me. When the light was extinguished the spirits appeared after some ‘hesitation’ and, following the wishes of the shaman, spoke into the horn of the phonograph.”
The recording showed a clear difference between the speech of the shaman, audible in the background, and the spirit voices which seemed to have been located directly at the mouth of the horn. All along, the shaman's ceaseless drum beats can be heard as if to prove that he remained in the same spot.

This was the first known experiment in which voices of "conjured spirits" were recorded on an electrical recording device.


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In 1910, a Catholic altar boy in Brazil often saw his priest, Roberto Landell do Moura, communicating with a small box. The priest would speak to the box, and it would speak back. Fr Landell was reluctant to share details of the box with anyone, as the Church did not approve of any forms of spirit communication other than such traditional Christian techniques as prayer. The reports of the altar boy were officially recorded, however.


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In the 1920s, Thomas Alva Edison, inventor of the electric light, the motion picture camera, and phonograph, was busily at work in his laboratory building a machine to achieve spirit communication with the dead. His assistant, Dr Miller Hutchinson, wrote, “Edison and I are convinced that in the fields of psychic research will yet be discovered facts that will prove of greater significance to the thinking of the human race than all the inventions we have ever made in the field of electricity.”

Edison himself wrote, “If our personality survives, then it is strictly logical or scientific to assume that it retains memory, intellect, other faculties, and knowledge that we acquire on this Earth. Therefore … if we can evolve an instrument so delicate as to be affected by our personality as it survives in the next life, such an instrument, when made available, ought to record something.”

Unfortunately, Edison died before he could complete his invention. Yet, as he lay dying, he remarked to his physician, "It is very beautiful over there." Edison was a scientist, very factual, and as a scientist would never have reported "It is very beautiful over there," unless he believed it to be true.


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By 1925, Brazilian researcher Oscar d’Argonell wrote the book, Voices from Beyond by Telephone, which reported details of his long telephone dialogs with spirit friends, including many interesting verifications and explanations of how the spirit collaborators made the calls.


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In 1936, American photographer Attila von Szalay began experimenting with a record cutter and had moderate success capturing spirit voices on phonograph records. In the 1940s he had better success with a wire recorder. In the 1950s writer Raymond Bayless began a collaboration with von Szalay, and the two men documented von Szalay’s results in an article for the American Society for Psychical Research in 1959. Neither the Society nor the authors received a single response from readers.


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In 1949, Marcello Bacci of Grosseto, Italy, began experimenting in the paranormal. Soon he began recording voices using an old vacuum tube radio. A spirit team developed around his work, and they spoke to him through the radio sounds. People would visit him in his lab at home, and very often their departed loved ones would talk to them through Mr Bacci’s radio. Today, Marcello Bacci still uses the vacuum tube radio, and his spirit friends not only talk to him, but sometimes they sing to him.


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In the early 1950s in Italy, two Catholic priests, Father Ernetti and Father Gemelli, were collaborating on music research. Ernetti was an internationally respected scientist, a physicist and philosopher, and also a music lover. Gemelli was President of the Papal Academy. On September 15, 1952, while Gemelli and Ernetti were recording a Gregorian chant, a wire on their magnetophone kept breaking. Exasperated, Father Gemelli looked up and asked his father for help. To the two men's amazement, his father's voice, recorded on the magnetophone, answered, “Of course I shall help you. I'm always with you.”

They repeated the experiment, and this time a very clear voice filled with humor said, “But Zucchini, it is clear, don't you know it is I?”

Father Gemelli stared at the tape. No one knew the nickname his father had teased him with when he was a boy. He realized then that he was truly speaking with his father. Though his joy at his father's apparent survival was mixed with fear. Did he have any right to speak with the dead? Eventually the two men visited Pope Pius XII in Rome. Father Gemelli, deeply troubled, told the Pope of the experience. To his surprise the Pope patted his shoulder and said, “Dear Father Gemelli, you really need not worry about this. The existence of this voice is strictly a scientific fact and has nothing whatsoever to do with spiritism. The recorder is totally objective. It receives and records only sound waves from wherever they come. This experiment may perhaps become the cornerstone for a building for scientific studies which will strengthen people's faith in a hereafter.”

The good father was somewhat reassured. But he made certain that the experiment did not go public until the last years of his life. It wasn't until 1990 that the results were published.


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In 1959, the man who was to become a great pioneer in the recording of voice phenomena, Swedish film producer Friedrich Juergenson, captured voices on audiotape while taping bird songs. He was startled when he played the tape back and heard a male voice say something about "bird voices in the night." Listening more intently to his tapes, he heard his mother's voice say in German, “Friedrich, you are being watched. Friedel, my little Friedel, can you hear me?”

Juergenson said that when he heard his mother's voice, he was convinced, he had made "an important discovery." During the next four years, Juergenson continued to tape hundreds of paranormal voices. He played the tapes at an international press conference and in 1964 published a book in Swedish: Voices from the Universe and then another entitled Radio Contact with the Dead.


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In 1967, Franz Seidel, Vienna, developed the "psychophone". Theodore Rudolph developed a goniometer for Raudive's experiments. Thomas Edison spoke through West German clairvoyant Sigrun Seuterman, in trance, about his earlier efforts in 1928 to develop equipment for recording voices from the beyond. Edison also made suggestions as to how to modify TV sets and tune them to 740 megahertz to get paranormal effects. (Session recorded on tape by Paul Affolter, Liestal, Switzerland).

In 1967, Juergenson's Radio Contact with the Dead was translated into German, and Latvian psychologist Dr Konstantin Raudive read it skeptically. He visited Juergenson to learn his methodology, decided to experiment on his own, and soon began developing his own experimental techniques. Like Juergenson, Raudive too heard the voice of his own deceased mother, who called him by his boyhood name: "Kostulit, this is your mother." Eventually he catalogued tens of thousands of voices, many under strict laboratory conditions.


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In 1968, Fr Leo Schmid conducted EVP experiments in his small parish in Oeschgen, Switzerland. His results were published in his book, "When the Dead Speak", in 1976, shortly after his death.

In 1968, Raudive published his book "Unhoerbares wird hoerbar" (The Inaudible Becomes Audible), based on 72,000 voices he recorded.


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In 1971, the chief engineers of Pye Records Ltd. decided to do a controlled experiment with Konstantin Raudive. They invited him to their sound lab and installed special equipment to block out any radio and television signals. They would not allow Raudive to touch any of the equipment.

Raudive used one tape recorder which was monitored by a control tape recorder. All he could do was speak into a microphone. They taped Raudive's voice for eighteen minutes and none of the experimenters heard any other sounds. But when the scientists played back the tape, to their amazement, they heard over two hundred voices on it.

Experimenting in the electronic voice phenomenon (EVP) became very popular in Europe in the 60's and 70's. Many individuals and groups collected voices over their home tape recorders.


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In 1971, Paul Jones, G.W. Meek and Hans Heckman, Americans, opened a laboratory. First serious research to create a two-way voice communication system far more sophisticated that the equipment used in EVP approach.



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In 1972, Peter Bander, England, wrote Carry on Talking, published in US as Voices From the Tapes: Recordings from the Other World, 1973.

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In 1973, Josephand Michael Lamoreaux, Washington State, had success with recording paranormal voices after reading Raudive's book.

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In 1975, William Addams Welch, Hollywood script writer and playwright, authored Talks With the Dead.

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Then the late 1970s brought a significant breakthrough. Ironically, it occurred in the US where EVP had been virtually ignored. In 1973, spiritual researchers George and Jeannette Meek met a psychically gifted man, William O'Neil, who could see and hear spirits. The Meeks provided funding and direction for a ground-breaking project of advanced spirit communication, and O'Neil provided the necessary psychic skills and electronics know-how.

O'Neil recruited several of his spirit friends into the project. One of his invisible colleagues was the spirit of Dr George Jeffries Mueller, a deceased university professor and NASA (National Aeronautic and Space Administration) scientist who simply appeared in O'Neil's living room one day as a semi-materialized spirit, and announced that he was there to assist in the project of Meek and O'Neil. It became a rather astonishing collaboration between dimensions: Doc Mueller in spirit helping Bill O'Neil on Earth design a new piece of electromagnetic equipment that would convert spirit voices into audible voices. Appropriately christened Spiricom, the new device was a set of tone generators and frequency generators that emitted 13 tones spanning the range of the adult male voice.


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By the fall of 1980 Spiricom had advanced to the point where Doc Mueller's spirit voice, although quite buzzy, was loud and easily understandable, and Meek and O'Neil soon catalogued more than 20 hours of dialog with their spirit colleague Doc Mueller. These are reported in some detail in the book After We Die, What Then? by George Meek.

In 1982, G. W. Meek made a trip around the world to distribute tape recordings of 16 excerpts of communications between William J. O'Neil and an American scientist who died 14 years earlier. He also distributed a 100-page technical report giving wiring diagrams, photos, technical data and guidelines for research by others.

The pioneering efforts of George Meek and Bill O'Neil planted seeds and fueled minds all around the world. Sarah Estep started the American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomenon (AAEVP) in 1982 and quickly assembled a list of hundreds of EVP experimenters to receive her newsletter. Her book, Voices of Eternity, became very popular. In Europe, thousands of people were already following up on the EVP experiments of people like Friedrich Juergenson and Konstantin Raudive, and they became very excited and inspired by the news from the States.

Reports of spirit telephone calls were becoming widespread, and D. Scott Rogo catalogued them in his book, "Telephone Calls from the Dead,” in 1979.


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Just as airplanes got bigger and better as younger minds built upon the foundation laid by the Wright Brothers, so has ITC flourished since Spiricom. Most notable among the new generation of ITC researchers were Ken Webster of England, Maggy and Jules Harsch-Fischbach of Luxembourg, and researchers Klaus Schreiber, Manfred Boden, Hans Otto Koenig, Friedrich Malkhoff, and Adolf Homes all of Germany.

Manfred Boden (West-Germany) obtains 1980-81 unsolicited computer print-outs from "spirit" comunicators. Before that he received telephone calls. Until 1983 he has also unsolicited contacts with communicators of non-human evolution.

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Hans Otto Koenig developed new spirit communication technologies from 1982 to 1988, employing extremely low frequency oscillators, as well as lights in the ultraviolet and infrared range. In 1983 he appeared on a popular radio program on Europe’s largest radio station, Radio Luxembourg. The host, Rainer Holbe, had Koenig set up his equipment under close supervision of the station engineers. One of the engineers asked if a voice could come through in direct reply to a question, and a voice quickly replied, “We hear your voice. Otto Koenig makes wireless contact with the dead.” Stunned, Rainer Holbe addressed the millions of listeners across Europe, “I tell you, dear Listeners of Radio Luxembourg, and I swear by the life of my children, that nothing has been manipulated. There are no tricks. It is a voice, and we do not know from where it comes.”


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Ken Webster received some 250 spirit messages in his computers (1984-5) from a 16th-Century Englishman named Thomas Harden who was apparently “haunting” Webster’s house. Harden claimed that he had owned the same house some four centuries earlier. Harden in spirit was apparently rather stuck in time, referring to Webster’s computer as a “light box” and typing a message to Webster onto the screen on one occasion, “What strange words you are speaking, although I must admit that I had only a poor school education myself. You are a good person and you have a fantastic wife. But you live in my house. It was a big crime to steal my home.” The many messages from Harden were in Olde English dialect and contained extensive details of Harden’s personal life, as well as life of that era, which were later confirmed through research at Oxford Library. Webster’s book, The Vertical Plane, documents those ITC contacts.


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Klaus Schreiber began to receive spirit images on his TV set in 1985, including the faces of scientist Albert Einstein, Austrian actress Romy Schneider, and various departed family members, especially his two deceased wives and daughter Karin, with whom he was particularly close. His technique, set up by his colleague Martin Wenzel, involved aiming a videocamera at the television and feeding the output of the camera back into the TV, in order to achieve a feedback loop. The result was a churning mist on the screen out of which the spirit faces would slowly form over a period of many frames. Schreiber’s spectacular results were the subject of a TV documentary and book by popular radio-television commentator Rainer Holbe in nearby Luxembourg, in 1985.


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Maggy Harsch-Fischbach and her husband Jules Harsch of Luxembourg began to get spectacular voice contacts through radio systems early in their experiments in 1985. A high-pitched, computer-like voice came through their radios with growing frequency to announce the beginning and end of experiments and to share amazing insights with the couple. The entity producing the voice identified himself (or herself) as an ethereal being who was never human, never animal, and never in a physical body. “I am not energy and I am not a light being. You are familiar with the picture of two children walking across a bridge, and behind them is a being who protects them. That’s what I am to you, but without the wings. You can call me Technician, since that is my role in opening up this communication bridge. I am assigned to Planet Earth.” The small flat inhabited by the Harsch-Fischbach couple became a place of miracles, as visiting scientists and reporters saw spirit-world images flash across the TV screen and heard long discourses by various deceased personalities through radio sounds. The spirit of Nelson D. Rockefeller told German physicist Ernst Senkowski, “The Mahatmas are a reality.” Nineteenth-Century chemist Henri Ste. Claire de Ville told American and German researchers, “It is our job as well as your job to set fire to minds—to set fire to minds in your world, and in that moment to try to master time.” When I visited the couple in 1994, spirit friend Konstantin Raudive told us in English, through the radios, “It can only work when the vibrations of those present are in complete harmony and when their aims and intentions are pure.” He then went on to address the five of us individually, with a very personal message for each of us.


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Fritz Malkhoff and Adolf Homes began ITC experiments independently in 1987, and each began to get spirit voices on tape rather quickly. In a few months, they learned of each other’s work, and they became colleagues and friends. During their experiments, small voices on radio quickly developed long, clear voices. Then they began to receive phone calls from their spirit friends, and in 1988 they set up Malkhoff’s computer in the house of Adolf Homes, where they did most of their experiments. They posed a short question, and two days later a short answer appeared miraculously on their computer screen. As years passed, Malkhoff received many phone calls from spirit friends, including nature spirits. Homes received spirit images on his television and messages on his computer screen rather routinely. One morning in 1994, Homes climbed out of bed in a trance, aimed a video camera at his television, and received the first color picture from the spirit worlds. It was a picture of deceased EVP pioneer Friedrich Juergenson. At the same time, a message from Juergenson printed out of Homes’s computer, stating, “This is Friedel from Sweden. I am sending you a self-portrait… The projection since January 17, 1991, has been in the quantum of spacelessness and timelessness. All your and our thoughts have their own electromagnetic reality which does not get lost outside the space-time structure… Consciousness creates all form….”


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In 1995, ITC entered a new phase. I (Mark Macy) worked closely with ITC colleagues on both sides of the Atlantic to plan a meeting among scientists and researchers from different countries. Sixteen of us met in England to discuss this modern-day miracle, its tremendous possibilities for our world, and the obstacles that stood in the way. We formed new friendships, and by the end of a long weekend we also formed INIT, the International Network for Instrumental Transcommunication. In the coming months, ethereal beings told us they were observing our efforts closely and would provide guidance and support. We began to experience unprecedented miracles in our research. Many of us received phone calls, usually from spirit friend Konstantin Raudive, and the Harsch-Fischbachs received astounding pictures and messages through their computer, all as a result of resonance among INIT members. It was clear that a new phase of ITC research on Earth had begun. Our ethereal friends told us that the greatest strides would be made by individuals from different countries who committed to work together in harmony with pure intentions.


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As aging researchers died—Konstantin Raudive in 1974, Friedrich Juergenson in 1987, Klaus Schreiber in 1988, Bill O’Neil in 1991, and George Meek in 1999—they began to get in touch with their colleagues on Earth through ITC systems. Raudive told several earthside colleagues that since his death it has been his calling to continue the development of ITC systems from the other side of the veil. He called me by phone seven times after his death, and on one occasion we chatted for nearly 15 minutes before the contact ended. On another occasion he told me to purchase a “VLF converter” for my radio system; it would improve contacts. Friedrich Juergenson told eagerly watching ITC experimenters in Germany, through the television of Adolf Homes, “Every being is a unity of spirit and body that cannot be separated on earth or in spirit. The only difference is the fact that the physical body disintegrates and in its place comes the astral body. Our message is to tell you that your life goes on. Any speculations on how an individual will experience it are bound to be limited in accuracy. All your scientific, medical or biological speculations miss the mark of these realities. What serves as ‘real’ to science is not close to reality in the broad picture. It is no more than a word in a book.” The most inspiring and helpful information came to us from a group of timeless beings who said they had never been in physical bodies, but had observed human development over many thousands of years. These ethereal beings addressed our group in 1996: “This is the seventh time that we accompany and guide you on your progress toward a free, wealthy, and sane future in which humanity would have stripped off the chains of intolerance and cruelty—a future in which it will be able to establish a fruitful, endurable relationship with the light, ethereal realms of existence.”


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Ethereal beings told INIT on more than one occasion that simply opening the door to the spirit worlds can be dangerous, but researchers who work together and dedicate their efforts to higher human principles will receive ethereal guidance and protection. As years passed, Technician and his six ethereal friends, along with a team of more than 1,000 spirit beings who had once lived on Earth, shared vast and astonishing information with INIT members through computers, telephones, radios, and other technical media. The ethereal beings said they had accompanied our world for many thousands of years and had come close six times when the Earth had reached a crossroads leading either to a dark age or to a period of enlightenment. This, they said, was the seventh time, and they wished to establish a lasting bridge between Earth and their formless realm of wise, loving consciousness. ITC research would be the means by which to establish that bridge. Through the work of INIT, it became evident that the more miraculous forms of ITC contacts were made possible by such ethereal beings, who provided protection and guidance for ITC researchers and their spirit colleagues.

Our spirit friends suggested to us INIT members that the collective wisdom and knowledge of all the INIT members allowed the information in ITC contacts to contain unprecedented depth of substance. Thanks to our collective understanding, we were told about the distant past of our world, long before recorded history, and we were given hints about future possibilities, depending on the critical decisions of humans in the near future. The ethereal beings also told us what it’s like from their perspective when they come to “take us home” at the end of our earthly lives. These are just a few general examples of the types of information delivered to us through ITC systems.

We were told that ITC contacts are made possible by a contact field, which is a pool of thoughts and attitudes of all researchers collaborating on an ITC project, as well as the thoughts and attitudes of their spirit team. When the thoughts and attitudes of all those entities on both sides of the veil are in harmony, our spirit friends told us the contact field was clear. They could then see into our world and work with our equipment. When doubts, fears, envy, resentment, and other troubled feelings created dissonance, the contact field became cloudy, and our spirit friends told us they could not see easily into our world or work with our equipment.

That’s what happened to INIT. After several years, troubles developed. Most of us were a little insecure about the miraculous contacts we were receiving. We had no way to understand what was making them possible. So many of us believed that we would not make major strides in ITC research until science became involved and discovered the secrets behind ITC contacts. Some members began working with scientists in their home country, who took one look at the results of our research and told the INIT researchers that the miracles we’d been receiving were scientifically impossible. The scientists told the INIT members they should be more skeptical of the contacts their colleagues were reporting. So some members began to express doubts publicly about the legitimacy of other members’ contacts. The researchers who had received those contacts felt betrayed, as though a friend had accused them of fraud, and a division developed within our association. Some members felt we should indeed work with science, even if it meant being more skeptical. Others believed that our miraculous contacts were most important, and we should forget scientists who were not ready, willing, or able to accept the legitimacy of our work. The division grew quickly, fueled by intense animosity, conflict, and hurt feelings on both sides of the Atlantic, and probably on both sides of the veil as well.

As a result of the dissonance, the contact field became cloudy, our spirit friends were unable to come through into our world and work with our equipment, and the miracles of ITC virtually dried up. Phone calls, FAXes, detailed computer images and texts from spirit friends with messages of great depth and import have not been reported from any researchers since the year 2000, to the best of my knowledge.

I believe those miracles and many more will return when we have learned from our mistakes—when we realize that the doubts, the fears, and the insecurities…the envy, the resentment, and the other dark feelings which we humans experience almost everyday and which we take for granted as a normal part of living here on Earth, must all be kept under control when we are involved in any form of spiritual work, especially ITC research. It is easy for us to say that we are in harmony with others, but our hidden doubts, fears, and insecurities say otherwise. We have to find those dark feelings inside us and bring them into the light to heal.

After all, we humans are spirit magnets, attracting into our lives spiritual influences that resonate with our attitudes. If we are in doubt or in fear, we will attract spirits into our lives who stir up our doubts and fears. If we love and trust the people around us, then we will attract spirits into our lives who will support that love and trust.

The ITC networks that enjoy miracles in the future are those which grow today upon a foundation of harmony. Ethereal beings told INIT on more than one occasion that simply opening the door to the spirit worlds can be dangerous, but researchers who work together and dedicate their efforts to higher human principles will receive ethereal guidance and protection. As years passed, Technician and his six ethereal friends, along with a team of more than 1,000 spirit beings who had once lived on Earth, shared vast and astonishing information with INIT members through computers, telephones, radios, and other technical media. The ethereal beings said they had accompanied our world for many thousands of years and had come close six times when the Earth had reached a crossroads leading either to a dark age or to a period of enlightenment. This, they said, was the seventh time, and they wished to establish a lasting bridge between Earth and their formless realm of wise, loving consciousness. ITC research would be the means by which to establish that bridge. Through the work of INIT, it became evident that the more miraculous forms of ITC contacts were made possible by such ethereal beings, who provided protection and guidance for ITC researchers and their spirit colleagues.
http://www.worlditc.org/a_02_itc_history.htm
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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:54:36 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 09:58 PM                       
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Divination: Shortcuts to Making Decisions
NECROMANCY: consulting the dead or a spirit to obtain secret knowledge. This is done usually through a medium or channel who contacts the spirit.

RHABDOMANCY: the interpretation of the position of rods, arrows, or staffs for the purpose of divination.

AEROMANCY: divination by the air and sky. The wind, cloud shapes and other aerial formations are studied as omens or signs of future events.

ASTRAGALOMANCY: divination using dice, bones, stones or small pieces of wood bearing letters or symbols. The diviner asks a question and interprets the answer based on how the objects lie on the ground or what letters or symbols are facing upwards.

PALMISTRY/CHIROMANCY: the study of the hand and the lines of the palm to assess character and foretell the future.

PYROMANCY: divination by fire. Leaves, twigs or incense are thrown into a fire, and changes in color, shape and intensity of the flames are interpreted.

TASSEOGRAPHY: divination by reading tea-leaves. The dregs of a cup of tea are swirled around inside the cup, then the cup is inverted on a saucer. The seer interprets the patterns of the leaves remaining inside the cup.

CARTOMANCY: divination by cards. Tarot cards are the most commonly used.

NUMEROLOGY: divination by numbers. Numerologists give numerical values to the letters of the alphabet and analyze names for their numerical significance. It is claimed that one’s character and future can thus be determined.

BIBLIOMANCY: Bibliomancy is divination by means of a book. A book (the Bible and Koran are often used) is opened at random and the person points to a line while keeping his eyes closed. The randomly chosen line is believed to convey a message of significance.
http://www.wcg.org/lit/booklets/spirit/spirit4.htm



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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:55:17 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 10:07 PM                       
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Phone calls from the dead
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This is a phenomenon in which people literally receive phone calls from the dead. The deceased caller usually had a closed relationship with the recipient.

In such calls, the telephone usually rings normally, but may sound flat and abnormal. Usually the connection is bad and the voice of the deceased fades. The voice is recognizable, however, and usually speaks familiar or pet names and words. The phone call is terminated abruptly, either by the caller or by the line going dead. If the voice is too faint, the recipient may hang up in frustration.

If the recipient knows the caller id deceased, he or she may enter a state of shock and hang up immediately. If the recipient does not know that the caller is dead, he or she may talk as long as thirty minutes. Usually such calls occur within twenty-for hours after the caller's death, although, some calls have been reported as long as two years from the time of death.

Generally the purpose of such mysterious calls seems to be to leave a farewell message, or a warning of an impending danger, or information needed by the living. Actress Ida Lupino received a phone call from her father six months after his death; he told her the whereabouts of some papers to settle his estate.

Other calls have been made in apparent observance of holidays, birthdays, and anniversaries. The caller may just speak a phrase such as "Hello Mom, is that you?"

Such phone calls have gone in the opposite direction too. The caller carries on a normal conversation with the recipient only to later discover the recipient was already deceased at the time when the call occurred.

Although there is no satisfactory explanation for the strange calls from the dead, there have been several theories put forth. One holds that the dead do place the calls through supernatural manipulation of the telephone mechanisms and circuitry. Another holds that they are hallucinations caused in part by Psychokinesis (PK) accomplished subconsciously by the recipient. Other theories suggest that the calls are pure fantasy, or tricks played on the living by low-level spirits.

Most modern parapsychologists do not take such calls seriously. In the early twentieth century, investigators modified the telegraph and wireless with the hopes of communicating with the dead. Thomas Edison, whose parents were Spiritualists, worked on but never completed a telephone that he hoped would connect the living with the dead. During the 1940s the "psychic telephone" experiments were conduct in England and America in attempts to reach the dead. Again, interest arose in the 1960s when Konstantin Raudive announced that he had captured voices of the dead in electromagnetic tape. (see Electronic voice phenomenon) A.G.H.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/p/phone_calls_from_the_dead.html
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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 20


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:56:44 pm
 
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 10:09 PM                       
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What God tells us in the Bible about trying to communicate with the dead,
with other spirits, Reincarnation and Psychics
There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Deuteronomy 18:10 (KJV)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (KJV)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 4:3-4

For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:13-14 (KJV)

When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? {Should they} {consult} the dead on behalf of the living?
Isaiah 8:19 (NAS)

Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:31 (NAV)

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:19 (KJV)

The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 29:29

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:17 (KJV)

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Romans 8:18

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luke 16:25-26 (KJV)

Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12(KJV)


http://www.creationists.org/spirits.html


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:58:06 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 10:10 PM                       
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electronic voice phenomenon (EVP)
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.--Paul Simon, "The Boxer"
Electronic voice phenomenon is the alleged communication by spirits through tape recorders and other electronic devices. The belief in EVP in the United States seems to have mushroomed thanks to Sarah Estep, president of the American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena, which claims to have members in some 40 states and publishes a newsletter. Estep claims that in the 1970s she started picking up voices on her husband's Teac reel-to-reel recorder. She is sure that the voices are spirits, proving there is life after death. Estep also claims to hear voices of aliens on some of her tapes. She says she has taped some 20,000 ghosts and aliens. Aliens don't speak English, however, so she is not sure what they are saying.

Interest in EVP apparently began in the1920s. An interviewer from Scientific American asked Thomas Edison about the possibility of contacting the dead. Edison, a man of no strong religious views, said that nobody knows whether “our personalities pass on to another existence or sphere” but

it is possible to construct an apparatus which will be so delicate that if there are personalities in another existence or sphere who wish to get in touch with us in this existence or sphere, this apparatus will at least give them a better opportunity to express themselves than the tilting tables and raps and ouija boards and mediums and the other crude methods now purported to be the only means of communication. (Clark 1997: 235)

There is no evidence, however, that Edison ever designed or tried to construct such a device. And he probably did not foresee spirits communicating with our tape recorders and television sets.

While it is impossible to prove that all EVPs are due to natural phenomena, skeptics maintain that they are probably due to such things as interference from a nearby CB operator or cross modulation. Some of the "voices" are most likely people creating meaning out of random noise, a kind of auditory pareidolia or apophenia. And now that the phenomenon has a number of devoted followers (a recent Google search for "electronic voice phenomenon" yielded 12,200 hits, with this article coming up number one!), some hoaxers have probably entered the fray.
http://skepdic.com/evp.html


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:58:35 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-17-2005 10:27 PM                       
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Anyone, feel free to weigh in on their thoughts or experiences on communicating wih those in the hereafter, the nature of life after death, and all their inherent possibilities. I have been reading Brig's journal about his haunting in OBE, but since this one has a more historical bent to it, I decided it belonged over here - another of humanity's most ancient mysteries, most likely, it's creepiest, too.
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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:58:56 pm
TracySpeaks
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Rate Member   posted 01-18-2005 02:53 PM                       
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I don't have much to say other than "Thank you."
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Posts: 10 | From: TN, USA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:59:18 pm
sangmele
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Rate Member   posted 01-18-2005 04:31 PM                       
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a cousin of mine practised ouija and turntable, until... it was impossible to have a closed door in the house (it was not practical in winter). it ended with an exorcism.
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Posts: 443 | From: poiuyt | Registered: Nov 2003


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 08:59:45 pm
Brig

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Rate Member   posted 01-18-2005 05:14 PM                       
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Well Trent it all depends on how you lived  ;) As far as communication with the spirits are concerned. Who knows. But assuming you could, under certain conditions, how would you know what the spirit was saying was truthful? Death does not necessairly make anyone honest.
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Posts: 9843 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:00:05 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-18-2005 10:52 PM                       
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Brig, don't you know "the dead never lie?"
(From one of my favorite movies "Gotham" staring Virginia Madsen & Tommy Lee Jones)

Tracy,

You're welcome. Sure you don't want to share anything with us?


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:00:27 pm
TracySpeaks
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Rate Member   posted 01-19-2005 06:34 AM                       
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I've had nothing earth-shattering in this respect, I just meant that it's coming up on the anniversary of my father's passing, so I've been revisitng the topic of "life after death." This thread on the message board couldn't have been more timely.
About the only thing I can think of is that a few weeks after my dad passed, someone called my house asking for him. The odd thing there is that he never lived at my house, or even in this town. I didn't recognize the caller's voice.


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Posts: 10 | From: TN, USA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:00:49 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-19-2005 11:14 AM                       
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Trent,
Wow, one of my favorites, too!
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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:01:12 pm
sangmele
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Rate Member   posted 01-19-2005 02:02 PM                       
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i remember, after my grandad died. i was about 14, in his room was two beds, i slept there and one night i awaked and i saw him sleeping in his. i said good night granpa and returned to sleep. the morning after i realized.
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Posts: 443 | From: poiuyt | Registered: Nov 2003


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:01:44 pm
Trent

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   posted 01-19-2005 10:01 PM                       
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Tracy, Rock & Sangmele,
I'm glad you like it. We've all lost loved ones, and I think that sooner or later they do try and communicate with us. I've never seen a ghost myself, but I do believe that there are people who have a certain empathy with them who do see them at times. My mom is like that. When her dad passed away, years ago, about a day afterwards, she saw him sitting in a chair, just staring at her. She told him. "It's alright, Dad, you can go," and then he just faded away.

The same thing happened when my father died. He had a rough illness and had really gone downhill in the end. A couple of nights after he died, though, he appeared to her again. Only, he didn't appear to her as the poor guy he ended up as, he appeared to he was in his prime: slim, handsome, even dressed in his army uniform. "Not yet," she told him, and then he, too disappeared.

I don't reall need to see a ghost to know they exist, and I do know they are trying to communicate with us. There's this period when they first pass on when they try the hardest, and then they move onto the other side (if they're lucky).


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:02:15 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-19-2005 10:46 PM                       
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Interesting topic, Trent. I have an experience with the dead as well. A couple of years ago, my brother died an unnatural death - in my house. I was the one unlucky enough to find the body, it was a sight that, one way or another, will stay with me until the end of my days. He was always a very troubled soul and wasn't very happy in the end. I firmly believe that there are some people who just aren't built to make it in this world. At one time, we were close, and then we drifted apart, and I like to think of him as who he was, not who he came to be.
At this point, I would like to finish the sory by saying that I saw his ghost, but I never did. Apparently, I'm not a clairvoyant either. A relative of mine did see his ghost while staying over, though, and on more than one occasion. I know that because they described him in the exact same clothes that I found his body in. Odd that some things happen like this in this world. In this age of such modern technology, we still can't explain such a thing as ghosts and have yet to actually build any sort of device that would allow us to communicate with them.


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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:02:40 pm
MistahGray
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Rate Member   posted 02-03-2005 09:36 PM                       
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Hello All ! Nice Forums !
All of the above information on spirit communication are excellant reads. I myself, developed an avid interest in ITC only a couple months ago, and, although I am very skeptical about it, I have confidence in the belief of possibilities that I do not discount; probably because I have hopes that the afterlife is very real; I think most people wish this.

Finally, after over 30+ years of spiritual journeys and electronics experience, and almost nearly coming to an end of my journeying and turning into a total skeptic, I discovered ITC, or ITC has discovered me.

I invite all readers to follow my new pioneering beginnings into this amazing technology at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mrzeta/itcmain.html

I have yet to recieve my first voices!

I am nevertheless very excited and anxious.

Visit my site; I need all the support I can get. I am very confident in my electronics and physics abilities to come up with an interesting ITC device that has yet to be tried.

I have a few friends that are also working with similar devices, and progress is being made towards my first ITC device in a couple of weeks.

Sincerely,
Mr Gray





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Posts: 2 | From: Midcoast Maine | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:03:06 pm
MistahGray
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Rate Member   posted 02-03-2005 09:39 PM                       
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OOps !
What I meant to say was, as in coming up with an interesting ITC device, that design is already in place, and came to me after a month deluge of ITC information on possible ITC devices.

Mistah Gray


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Posts: 2 | From: Midcoast Maine | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:03:43 pm
Tina Walter

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   posted 02-04-2005 08:42 PM                       
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Sorry about your experiences, Dawn, that sounds like a grisly experience to have to go through. I was with my father when he died in the hospital. That was bad enough, even surrounded by doctors and nurses.
Welcome aboard, Mistah Gray. Nice website (and interesting music). I hope you like the forums. So I guess you're building one of these machines or is it built already..?



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Posts: 126 | From: Sycamore, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:04:35 pm
 
Trent

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   posted 03-14-2005 12:26 AM                       
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Pursuing the paranormal
West Barnstable group uses tools to identify voices from beyond

By JOE HEITZ
STAFF WRITER
YARMOUTHPORT - Three words.

"Did anybody answer?"

And David Sircom ripped off his headphones and backed against the wall.


David Sircom demonstrates his technique for recording electronic voice
phenomena in a Dennis cemetery. The sun provides the light atop the
tombstone.
(Staff photo by STEVE HEASLIP)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just three words.

His disbelief vanished.

"I always believed there was something after death," Sircom said, "but
not that you could interact with them."

He'd asked out loud if there were any spirits in his home that wanted to
communicate.

The first time he heard nothing.

A few hours later on that fall morning in 2000, he tried again.

Sircom started his tape recorder, asked his question and waited a few
moments. Then he transferred the silence he'd recorded onto his computer
and played it back.

And there it was.

"Did anybody answer?"

This query represented the first of many voices he's recorded, both in
his Yarmouthport home and places like the Dennis Cemetery.

"I believe they're dead people," Sircom said. "But who knows?"

Sircom, a public insurance adjuster, is now a member of the Cape
AndIslands Paranormal Research Society, a nonprofit organization that
researches the supernatural.

White noise
Proponents of Electronic Voice Phenomena - spotlighted in the 2005 movie
"White Noise" - maintain that spirits of the dead can speak through
electronic recordings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is EVP?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electronic Voice Phenomena is a process whereby the voice or voices of
the dead are embedded onto magnetic recording tape by a process we do
not understand.

The embedded "ghost" voice can be heard when the magnetic audiotape is
played back on a tape recorder/player or with a digital recorder. Ghost
voices are clear and do not sound like static, but some voices are weak
and found at the noise level.

Source: www.ghostweb.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena also suggests the
voices may be those of extraterrestrials or "entities who might best be
described as angelic."

What EVPs are is complex, with even its staunchest supporters sometimes
in disagreement over where they come from or what is said.

However, the process by which EVPs are obtained can be relatively
simple, Sircom said.

He recommended using any tape recorder - ideally with an external
microphone - and a low-noise, high-sensitivity tape. He then announces
himself and records any palette of white noise, ranging from a silent
room or radio static or water rushing down the drain.

Sircom finally runs the result through a computer program that optimizes
any unusual sounds on the recording.

Because you can't hear the phenomenon as it's happening, you never know
until you analyze the recording if any voices were captured, Sircom
said.

Sometimes it happens, but often there's nothing.


Analog and digital tape recorders are used to collect "white noise" for
paranormal research.
(Staff photo by STEVE HEASLIP)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"They either want to chat," Sircom said, "or they don't."

That's one of the reasons EVP should not be used as a bereavement tool,
he added. The voices are unreliable and their words are oftentimes
garbled - after all, the clipped, harsh EVP voice that said "I will see
you no more" could have said something less poignant like "I was seeing
the war."

Essentially, you can't continue any meaningful relationship with a
deceased loved one through a tape recorder and a computer, Sircom said.

"I've asked to speak to my parents," Sircom acknowledged. "But I've
never really gotten anything."

CAIPRS role
The Cape And Islands Paranormal Research Society, based in West
Barnstable, now uses EVP in its supernatural investigations.

"It's pretty good," said Derek Bartlett, CAIPRS founder and president.
"That's evidence, if it's answering specific questions."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the society
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cape And Islands Paranormal Research Society is the product of Derek
Bartlett's lifelong interest in the supernatural.

Members of CAIPERS range from 18-55 years old, said Bartlett, who works
as a software salesman.

The seven members - three men and four women - mostly come from the
Cape Cod and Plymouth areas.

CAIPRS holds monthly public meetings at Cape Cod Community College in
West Barnstable.

The group received official non-profit status last spring.

Its members aren't paid and its services are free. CAIPRS is bankrolled
through fund-raisers and private donations.

-- Joe Heitz

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAIPRS did 22 paranormal investigations in homes, cemeteries and
businesses across New England last year.

The tight group, Bartlett emphasized, is not Ghostbusters. They
painstakingly research reports of hauntings, examining and re-examining
data they collect, rather than rid a house of what may be haunting it.

EVP is simply one more tool in their arsenal, he explained.

"My team - I know - will not find absolute, 100 percent evidence of
ghosts," Bartlett said. "I hope we are stepping stones for those who
will."

Coincidence?
Not everyone is nearly so enamored with EVP.

Indeed, the whole notion of spirits communicating via electronics from
beyond the grave elicits a thorny tangle of scientific and religious
questions.

"If you look at the world around us, there's a huge amount of background
noise," said Craig Christensen, an electrical engineering professor at
Suffolk University in Boston.

Christensen said he's extremely skeptical of EVP, both for scientific
and religious reasons.

So where, then, do the voices that emerge on such recordings come from?

Christensen, a Mormon, said everything from far-off vacuum cleaners to
halogen lights to radio waves - even the agitation of atoms - can
produce tiny amounts of noise that could comprise the phenomenon.

Add it all up and mix in some chance, he said.

"The question is whether it's just a random coincidence or if it's
intelligible," Christensen said. "It gets into the realm where someone
has a potato chip that looks like Jay Leno."

But he added that he couldn't definitively discredit EVP - especially
since he views the matter as residing partially within religion.

"I also believe religious experiences don't always fall within
scientific method," Christensen said. "When you mix science and
religion, I don't necessarily see a conflict."

Selves as critics
Now ask Bartlett who CAIPRS' biggest skeptic is.


Sircom filters "white noise" through his computer in an effort to
detect sounds and voice patterns.
(Staff photo by RON SCHLOERB)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Myself," he replied. "We are the biggest skeptics and critics of what
we do. We have to have proof and evidence."

Sircom and Bartlett both say they don't rely on psychics or visionaries
in their investigations - no crystal balls or seances or ouiji boards.

The tools of their trade are technological.

Sircom uses tape recorders and his computer. Bartlett has a more
elaborate collection of items like an electromagnetic field detector and
a non-contact thermal scanner.

And if they can explain any possible paranormal event a more
conventional way, they do.

"If we can disprove it, that's what we do right away," Sircom said, a
tendency he credits in part to working as a licensed public insurance
adjuster.

However, Bartlett added ghost-hunting requires a balance of skepticism
and curiosity.

"You don't have to have a Ph.D. in parapsychology," he said. "All you
need is an open mind."

That one three-word question almost five years ago has evoked countless
more for Sircom.

"I thought it was baloney," he said, " 'til I got that response."

Who exactly answered? Or what? And why?

"Where are you?" Sircom once asked.

"Closer than you think," came the recording cryptic reply.

In the netherworld between science and the supernatural, little is
definitive.

"Did anybody answer?"

It depends who's listening.

(Published: March 6, 2005)

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:06:36 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 03-14-2005 05:28 AM                       
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3. THE PHENOMENON OF DEATH
112:3.1 Urantians generally recognize only one kind of death, the physical cessation of life energies; but concerning Êpersonality survival there are really three kinds:


112:3.2 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


112:3.3 2. Intellectual (mind) death. When the vital circuits of higher adjutant ministry are disrupted through the aberrations of intellect or because of the partial destruction of the mechanism of the brain, and if these conditions pass a certain critical point of irreparability, the indwelling Adjuster is immediately released to depart for Divinington. On the universe records a mortal personality is considered to have met with death whenever the essential mind circuits of human will-action have been destroyed. And again, this is death, irrespective of the continuing function of the living mechanism of the physical body. The body minus the volitional mind is no longer human, but according to the prior choosing of the human will, the soul of such an individual may survive.


112:3.4 3. Physical (body and mind) death. When death overtakes a human being, the Adjuster remains in the citadel of the mind until it ceases to function as an intelligent mechanism, about the time that the measurable brain energies cease their rhythmic vital pulsations. Following this dissolution the Adjuster takes leave of the vanishing mind, just as unceremoniously as entry was made years before, and proceeds to Divinington by way of Uversa.


112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.

112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.


4. ADJUSTERS AFTER DEATH

112:4.1 When death of a material, intellectual, or spiritual nature occurs, the Adjuster bids farewell to the mortal host and departs for Divinington. From the headquarters of the local universe and the superuniverse a reflective contact is made with the supervisors of both governments, and the Monitor is registered out by the same number that recorded entry into the domains of time.

112:4.2 In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster's duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster's version of the deceased human's survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.

112:4.3 Subsequent to physical death, except in individuals translated from among the living, the released Adjuster goes immediately to the home sphere of Divinington. The details of what transpires on that world during the time of awaiting the factual reappearance of the surviving mortal depend chiefly on whether the human being ascends to the mansion worlds in his own individual right or awaits a dispensational summoning of the sleeping survivors of a planetary age.

112:4.4 If the mortal associate belongs to a group that will be repersonalized at the end of a dispensation, the Adjuster will not immediately return to the mansion world of the former system of service but will, according to choice, enter upon one of the following temporary assignments:

1. Be mustered into the ranks of vanished Monitors for undisclosed service.

2. Be assigned for a period to the observation of the Paradise regime.

3. Be enrolled in one of the many training schools of Divinington.

4. Be stationed for a time as a student observer on one of the other six sacred spheres which constitute the Father's circuit of Paradise worlds.

5. Be assigned to the messenger service of the Personalized Adjusters.

6. Become an associate instructor in the Divinington schools devoted to the training of Monitors belonging to the virgin group.

7. Be assigned to select a group of possible worlds on which to serve in the event that there is reasonable cause for believing that the human partner may have rejected survival.

112:4.5 If, when death overtakes you, you have attained the third circle or a higher realm and therefore have had assigned to you a personal guardian of destiny, and if the final transcript of the summary of survival character submitted by the Adjuster is unconditionally certified by the destiny guardian -- if both seraphim and Adjuster essentially agree in every item of their life records and recommendations -- if the Universal Censors and their reflective associates on Uversa confirm this data and do so without equivocation or reservation, in that event the Ancients of Days flash forth the mandate of advanced standing over the communication circuits to Salvington, and, thus released, the tribunals of the Sovereign of Nebadon will decree the immediate passage of the surviving soul to the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds.

112:4.6 If the human individual survives without delay, the Adjuster, so I am instructed, registers at Divinington, proceeds to the Paradise presence of the Universal Father, returns immediately and is embraced by the Personalized Adjusters of the superuniverse and local universe of assignment, receives the recognition of the chief Personalized Monitor of Divinington, and then, at once, passes into the "realization of identity transition," being summoned therefrom on the third period and on the mansion world in the actual personality form made ready for the reception of the surviving soul of the earth mortal as that form has been projected by the guardian of destiny.


5. SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN SELF

112:5.1 Selfhood is a cosmic reality whether material, morontial, or spiritual. The actuality of the personal is the bestowal of the Universal Father acting in and of himself or through his manifold universe agencies. To say that a being is personal is to recognize the relative individuation of such a being within the cosmic organism. The living cosmos is an all but infinitely integrated aggregation of real units, all of which are relatively subject to the destiny of the whole. But those that are personal have been endowed with the actual choice of destiny acceptance or of destiny rejection.

112:5.2 That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man's personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father's will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man's participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential.


112:5.3 Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing.

112:5.4 Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

112:5.5 And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man's greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.


112:5.6 Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.

112:5.7 If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.

112:5.8 The governments of Orvonton and Nebadon do not claim absolute perfection for the detail working of the universal plan of mortal repersonalization, but they do claim to, and actually do, manifest patience, tolerance, understanding, and merciful sympathy. We had rather assume the risk of a system rebellion than to court the hazard of depriving one struggling mortal from any evolutionary world of the eternal joy of pursuing the ascending career.

112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.

112:5.10 When the more spiritually and cosmically advanced mortals die, they proceed immediately to the mansion worlds; in general, this provision operates with those who have had assigned to them personal seraphic guardians. Other mortals may be detained until such time as the adjudication of their affairs has been completed, after which they may proceed to the mansion worlds, or they may be assigned to the ranks of the sleeping survivors who will be repersonalized en masse at the end of the current planetary dispensation.


112:5.11 There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the borderland of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:

112:5.12 There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This child of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.

112:5.13 This child of persisting meaning and surviving value is wholly unconscious during the period from death to repersonalization and is in the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardian throughout this season of waiting. You will not function as a conscious being, following death, until you attain the new consciousness of morontia on the mansion worlds of Satania.

112:5.14 At death the functional identity associated with the human personality is disrupted through the cessation of vital motion. Human personality, while transcending its constituent parts, is dependent on them for functional identity. The stoppage of life destroys the physical brain patterns for mind endowment, and the disruption of mind terminates mortal consciousness. The consciousness of that creature cannot subsequently reappear until a cosmic situation has been arranged which will permit the same human personality again to function in relationship with living energy.


112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.


112:5.16 The situation which makes repersonalization possible is brought about in the resurrection halls of the morontia receiving planets of a local universe. Here in these life-assembly chambers the supervising authorities provide that relationship of universe energy -- morontial, mindal, and spiritual -- which makes possible the reconsciousizing of the sleeping survivor. The reassembly of the constituent parts of a onetime material personality involves:


112:5.17 1. The fabrication of a suitable form, a morontia energy pattern, in which the new survivor can make contact with nonspiritual reality, and within which the morontia variant of the cosmic mind can be encircuited.


112:5.18 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


112:5.19 3. When these prerequisites of repersonalization have been assembled, the seraphic custodian of the potentialities of the slumbering immortal soul, with the assistance of numerous cosmic personalities, bestows this morontia entity upon and in the awaiting morontia mind-body form while committing this evolutionary child of the Supreme to eternal association with the waiting Adjuster. And this completes the repersonalization, reassembly of memory, insight, and consciousness -- identity.


112:5.20 The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self. The phenomenon of personality is dependent on the persistence of the identity of selfhood reaction to universe environment; and this can only be effected through the medium of mind. Selfhood persists in spite of a continuous change in all the factor components of self; in the physical life the change is gradual; at death and upon repersonalization the change is sudden. The true reality of all selfhood (personality) is able to function responsively to universe conditions by virtue of the unceasing changing of its constituent parts; stagnation terminates in inevitable death. Human life is an endless change of the factors of life unified by the stability of the unchanging personality.

112:5.21 And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations.

112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p112.htm



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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:06:58 pm
Trent

Member
Member # 2174

Member Rated:
   posted 03-14-2005 08:12 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absonite,

So how does this explain the people who claim to see ghosts or who have talked with the dead if this suggests that that dead are unable to communicate? Doesn't jibe with the real life accounts of the paranormal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:07:58 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 03-14-2005 09:10 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trent,
I gave you the truth. Look for another explanation for those few incidents of so-called communication with the dead instead of the one you are coming up with. Use your head my good friend and common sense. I don't have the answer for what is happening in those few occurances but it certainly is not communication with the dead. Read the passage again, it is not only truth but also makes sense.


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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003  |


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:08:26 pm
Trent

Member
Member # 2174

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   posted 03-15-2005 08:57 PM                       
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Sorry, Absonite, this is where we'll have to differ. There are such a thing as ghosts, there are more than a few accounts of them. No question, some of the people who see them are hallucinating, or seeing only what they want to see, but there is ample evidence that ghosts exist. For the most part they seem to have involved cases where people have been so scarred by what happened to them this reality (violent deaths, etc.) that they cannot move on.
I'll look for more material on this when I get the time.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:08:55 pm
Zodiac

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Member # 2231

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   posted 03-15-2005 10:42 PM                       
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Count me as a firm believer in "ghosts" or whatever you want to call them. In my spare time, I do much investigation of the paranormal. There seems to be this "window" where people who pass on don't seem to know what to do, they don't pass on and they just seem to linger there in the sphere of existence. The creepiest thing that I've found is that these people don't seem to know that they're dead and sometimes linger for years.

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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:09:39 pm
 
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 03-16-2005 06:57 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry guys,
There is absolutely NO communication with the dead. You should settle that once and for all in your minds.



It is not a disagreement between me and you. It is a disagreement between you and the people who run the universes and who know what is going on. That was made perfectly clear by the material I posted. You are confusing a phenomenon of what you call "ghosts" with people who have passed on.

There are numerous orders of beings that are beyond the normal range of vision who also inhabit this planet. In fact an example of the quite numerous beings that share this place with us is illustrated by this account below, but this should not be confused with the so-called "dead".


quote:
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114:0.2 At noon today the roll call of planetary angels, guardians, and others on Urantia was 501,234,619 pairs of seraphim. There were assigned to my command two hundred seraphic hosts -- 597,196,800 pairs of seraphim, or 1,194,393,600 individual angels. The registry, however, shows 1,002,469,238 individuals; it follows therefore that 191,924,362 angels were absent from this world on transport, messenger, and death duty. (On Urantia there are about the same number of cherubim as seraphim, and they are similarly organized.)

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http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p114.htm

This "roll call" was written in 1934, my guess is that the numbers are fairly stable.
The midway creatures, who by the way are the real "permanent" citizens of this planet have the ability to make themselves visible to us mortals although it is a rare occurance.


There you have it, agree or disagree is your choice, but at least now you know the truth.

.


quote:
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6. SERAPHIC ORGANIZATION
38:6.1 After the second millennium of sojourn at seraphic headquarters the seraphim are organized under chiefs into groups of twelve (12 pairs, 24 seraphim), and twelve such groups constitute a company (144 pairs, 288 seraphim), which is commanded by a leader. Twelve companies under a commander constitute a battalion (1,728 pairs or 3,456 seraphim), and twelve battalions under a director equal a seraphic unit (20,736 pairs or 41,472 individuals), while twelve units, subject to the command of a supervisor, constitute a legion numbering 248,832 pairs or 497,664 individuals. Jesus alluded to such a group of angels that night in the garden of Gethsemane when he said: "I can even now ask my Father, and he will presently give me more than twelve legions of angels."

38:6.2 Twelve legions of angels comprise a host numbering 2,985,984 pairs or 5,971,968 individuals, and twelve such hosts (35,831,808 pairs or 71,663,616 individuals) make up the largest operating organization of seraphim, an angelic army. A seraphic host is commanded by an archangel or by some other personality of co-ordinate status, while the angelic armies are directed by the Brilliant Evening Stars or by other immediate lieutenants of Gabriel. And Gabriel is the "supreme commander of the armies of heaven," the chief executive of the Sovereign of Nebadon, "the Lord God of hosts."

38:6.3 Though serving under the direct supervision of the Infinite Spirit as personalized on Salvington, since the bestowal of Michael on Urantia, seraphim and all other local universe orders have become subject to the sovereignty of the Master Son. Even when Michael was born of the flesh on Urantia, there issued the superuniverse broadcast to all Nebadon which proclaimed, "And let all the angels worship him." All ranks of angels are subject to his sovereignty; they are a part of that group which has been denominated "his mighty angels."





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.

[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 03-16-2005).]


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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:10:09 pm
Datah

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Member # 335

Member Rated:
   posted 03-27-2005 10:34 AM                       
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About five minutes after my sister died I placed my hand on her forehead and asked God to let the family know that she is with Him. Two days later, My son was awakened by what he described as a heavy hand on his forehead. My son said that the hand was pressing his head down into the pillow. He also said that he had a very strong sense that God was in the room with him.
I didn't tell anyone what I asked God to do at the time of my sister's death. After myson told me about his visitor I then told him about the prayer to God asking Him to let the family know that my sister was with Him. My son said "WOW" I guess now we know where she went. My son was thirty years old at the time.
[This message has been edited by Datah (edited 03-27-2005).]


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Posts: 183 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2001   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:10:31 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 03-27-2005 05:08 PM                       
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I`ve read enough books on communicating with the dead in the past ,however could never quite believe it, until my own minister who bapisted and married me, had a communication. He wrote the book (Hi! This Is Katy) by Wallace Tooke and can be found in any Unity library. His story its very interesting.He has passed on now.
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Posts: 7892 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:10:54 pm
Trent

Member
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   posted 03-27-2005 09:02 PM                       
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Datah, what do you believe that God's communication with you meant?
More to the point, I would like to know just how many people here believe it is possible to communicate with the dead? I gather that I am one, along with Tracy and Zodiac, how many others..?


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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:11:18 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 03-31-2005 10:07 AM                       
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Trent
I believe.... hallelyah, I believe

It is the responsibility of those gifted with the discernment of spirits to aid them in crossing over. This is a sacred obligation not a parlor game.


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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:11:55 pm
Anteros

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   posted 03-31-2005 01:50 PM                       
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Do I believe that communication with the dead is possible? As the following story attests, I have no choice. Do I believe it's wise? Probably not.

quote:
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Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all the Israelites and set up camp at Gilboa.
When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart.
He inquired of the LORD , but the LORD did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets.
Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her."
"There is one in Endor," they said.
So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name."
But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?"
Saul swore to her by the LORD , "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this."
Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"
"Bring up Samuel," he said.
When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground."
"What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
"I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."
16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy?
The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors-to David.
Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today.
The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."
Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel's words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.
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1 SAMUEL 28:3-20 NIV



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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:12:35 pm
Calvin Noble

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Anteros, I imagine you haven't received any reply to this because it's entire meaning was lost on it's intended audience. Absonite would deny that there is such a thing as spirits, absolving mankind of any guilt it might accumulate should it cross a spirit's path. GOD would have you aknowledge the existence of spirits, yet have you DENY them should you cross the spirit's paths.
There are some who seem to come here with the sole intent of seeking to beguile and confuse.



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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:13:33 pm
Absonite

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  posted 04-03-2005 08:50 PM                       
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Calvin
you do not know anything about what i would deny or affirm.
I read your post 5 times and i still don't know what you are talking about and i don't think you do either.

As far as spirits coming here to beguile and confuse, the only one I know would be you. You even beguile and confuse yourself.

And furthemore, before Jesus that was true but since he incarnated he put a stop to all that "possssed by evil spirits stuff. Now it is simply your own evil ways that beguile and confuse. Just read some of your own posts to see the truth of that.   :)



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THE REBEL MIDWAYERS


77:7.1 The majority of the primary midwayers went into sin at the time of the Lucifer rebellion. When the devastation of the planetary rebellion was reckoned up, among other losses it was discovered that of the original 50,000, 40,119 had joined the Caligastia secession.

77:7.2 The original number of secondary midwayers was 1,984, and of these 873 failed to align themselves with the rule of Michael and were duly interned in connection with the planetary adjudication of Urantia on the day of Pentecost. No one can forecast the future of these fallen creatures.

77:7.3 Both groups of rebel midwayers are now held in custody awaiting the final adjudication of the affairs of the system rebellion. But they did many strange things on earth prior to the inauguration of the present planetary dispensation.

77:7.4 These disloyal midwayers were able to reveal themselves to mortal eyes under certain circumstances, and especially was this true of the associates of Beelzebub, the leader of the apostate secondary midwayers. But these unique creatures must not be confused with certain of the rebel cherubim and seraphim who also were on earth up to the time of Christ's death and resurrection. Some of the older writers designated these rebellious midway creatures as evil spirits  and demons, and the apostate seraphim as evil angels.

77:7.5 On no world can  evil spirits possess any mortal mind subsequent to the life of a Paradise bestowal Son. But before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia -- before the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters and the pouring out of the Master's spirit upon all flesh -- these rebel midwayers were actually able to influence the minds of certain inferior mortals and somewhat to control their actions. This was accomplished in much the same way as the loyal midway creatures function when they serve as efficient contact guardians of the human minds of the Urantia reserve corps of destiny at those times when the Adjuster is, in effect, detached from the personality during a season of contact with superhuman intelligences.

77:7.6 It is no mere figure of speech when the record states: "And they brought to Him all sorts of sick peoples, those who were possessed by devils and those who were lunatics." Jesus knew and recognized the difference between insanity and demoniacal possession, although these states were greatly confused in the minds of those who lived in his day and generation.

77:7.7 Even prior to Pentecost no rebel spirit could dominate a normal human mind, and since that day even the weak minds of inferior mortals are free from such possibilities. The supposed casting out of devils since the arrival of the Spirit of Truth has been a matter of confounding a belief in demoniacal possession with hysteria, insanity, and feeble-mindedness. But just because Michael's bestowal has forever liberated all human minds on Urantia from the possibility of demoniacal possession, do not imagine that such was not a reality in former ages.

77:7.8 The entire group of rebel midwayers is at present held prisoner by order of the Most Highs of Edentia. No more do they roam this world on mischief bent. Regardless of the presence of the Thought Adjusters, the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth upon all flesh forever made it impossible for disloyal spirits of any sort or description ever again to invade even the most feeble of human minds. Since the day of Pentecost there never again can be such a thing as demoniacal possession.

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http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p077.htm



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153:4.1 In the midst of the discussions of this after meeting, one of the Pharisees from Jerusalem brought to Jesus a distraught youth who was possessed of an unruly and rebellious spirit. Leading this demented lad up to Jesus, he said: "What can you do for such affliction as this? Can you cast out devils?" And when the Master looked upon the youth, he was moved with compassion and, beckoning for the lad to come to him, took him by the hand and said: "You know who I am; come out of him; and I charge one of your loyal fellows to see that you do not return." And immediately the lad was normal and in his right mind. And this is the first case where Jesus really cast an "evil spirit" out of a human being. All of the previous cases were only supposed possession of the devil; but this was a genuine case of demoniac possession, even such as sometimes occurred in those days and right up to the day of Pentecost, when the Master's spirit was poured out upon all flesh, making it forever impossible for these few celestial rebels to take such advantage of certain unstable types of human beings.

153:4.2 When the people marveled, one of the Pharisees stood up and charged that Jesus could do these things because he was in league with devils; that he admitted in the language which he employed in casting out this devil that they were known to each other; and he went on to state that the religious teachers and leaders at Jerusalem had decided that Jesus did all his so-called miracles by the power of Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Said the Pharisee: "Have nothing to do with this man; he is in partnership with Satan."

153:4.3 Then said Jesus: "How can Satan cast out Satan? A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand; if a house be divided against itself, it is soon brought to desolation. Can a city withstand a siege if it is not united? If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? But you should know that no one can enter into the house of a strong man and despoil his goods except he first overpower and bind that strong man. And so, if I by the power of Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore shall they be your judges. But if I, by the spirit of God, cast out devils, then has the kingdom of God truly come upon you. If you were not blinded by prejudice and misled by fear and pride, you would easily perceive that one who is greater than devils stands in your midst. You compel me to declare that he who is not with me is against me, while he who gathers not with me scatters abroad. Let me utter a solemn warning to you who would presume, with your eyes open and with premeditated malice, knowingly to ascribe the works of God to the doings of devils! Verily, verily, I say to you, all your sins shall be forgiven, even all of your blasphemies, but whosoever shall blaspheme against God with deliberation and wicked intention shall never obtain forgiveness. Since such persistent workers of iniquity will never seek nor receive forgiveness, they are guilty of the sin of eternally rejecting divine forgiveness.

153:4.4 "Many of you have this day come to the parting of the ways; you have come to a beginning of the making of the inevitable choice between the will of the Father and the self-chosen ways of darkness. And as you now choose, so shall you eventually be. You must either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else will the tree become corrupt and its fruit corrupt. I declare that in my Father's eternal kingdom the tree is known by its fruits. But some of you who are as vipers, how can you, having already chosen evil, bring forth good fruits? After all, out of the abundance of the evil in your hearts your mouths speak."

153:4.5 Then stood up another Pharisee, who said: "Teacher, we would have you give us a predetermined sign which we will agree upon as establishing your authority and right to teach. Will you agree to such an arrangement?" And when Jesus heard this, he said: "This faithless and sign-seeking generation seeks a token, but no sign shall be given you other than that which you already have, and that which you shall see when the Son of Man departs from among you."

153:4.6 And when he had finished speaking, his apostles surrounded him and led him from the synagogue. In silence they journeyed home with him to Bethsaida. They were all amazed and somewhat terror-stricken by the sudden change in the Master's teaching tactics. They were wholly unaccustomed to seeing him perform in such a militant manner.


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[ 04-03-2005, 21:14: Message edited by: Absonite ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:13:56 pm
Absonite

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  posted 04-03-2005 08:52 PM                       
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Datah,

that's a very kool story about your sister. I believe it.
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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:14:34 pm
Norman Pounders

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quote:
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As far as spirits coming here to beguile and confuse, the only one I know would be you. You even beguile and confuse yourself.

And furthemore, before Jesus that was true but since he incarnated he put a stop to all that "possssed by evil spirits stuff. Now it is simply your own evil ways that beguile and confuse. Just read some of your own posts to see the truth of that.
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Absonite, I find Calvin's views on things most persuasive, and believe that you have mischaracterized his postions with that statement.

Also, what chapter and verse of the Bible does it say that Christ put a halt to all evil spirits? I must have missed that one. Thank you.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:14:58 pm
 
Trent

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   posted 04-06-2005 09:56 PM                       
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Wow, check out all the new posters, or old ones that have come back, whatever the case may be.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:15:44 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 04-06-2005 11:09 PM                       
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Oh, for crying out loud, first a Bush icon, now a Cheney one, doesn't anyone here but me read Marvel Comics?
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:16:05 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-07-2005 10:15 AM                       
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LOL@, zodiac.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:17:15 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-07-2005 10:37 AM                       
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zodiac

Is that Ghost Rider! awesome

The problem appears to be some people only have one book. I would like to mention that in this country books are freely avilable at your local public library. Look into it, reading is FUNdamental.

[ 04-07-2005, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:17:49 pm
Absonite

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  posted 04-07-2005 03:17 PM                       
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unknown

i hope you are not lumping me into that remark.
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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:18:16 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 04-07-2005 03:25 PM                       
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I know you are an avid reader Abs it shows.

Sometimes I get PO'd and say things I shouldn't.

[ 04-07-2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:18:55 pm
Absonite

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  posted 04-07-2005 05:19 PM                       
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ok buddy,

for that you get another star   :)


.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:19:17 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 04-07-2005 08:02 PM                       
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Thanks

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave
 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:19:39 pm
 
Calvin Noble

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quote:
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Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness. Dalai Lama
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Ishtar, quoting the Dalai Lama and Native American religions does not serve to help your cause. All it proves is that you give equal weight to all the religions of the world, and so, less weight to Christianity. My eyes have now been opened to how you "operate," and I don't think I like what I see.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:20:51 pm
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-07-2005 11:17 PM                       
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Calvin, I don't think that any of us here attach any weight to your twisted version of Christianity, which again begs the question...why do you stay?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:21:17 pm
 
Zodiac

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   posted 04-07-2005 11:38 PM                       
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quote:
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zodiac

Is that Ghost Rider! awesome

The problem appears to be some people only have one book. I would like to mention that in this country books are freely avilable at your local public library. Look into it, reading is FUNdamental
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Thanks, Unknown!

For a moment, I thought the point you were making about the one book was about comic books then I realized I was reading it wrong. That probably wouldn't have done well to make your point about illiteracy!
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:21:43 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 04-07-2005 11:40 PM                       
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By the way, your point was lost on Calvin, but you'll notice it wasn't on Veronica, cause she's a bright girl.   ;)
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:22:06 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-08-2005 05:54 PM                       
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Hey Zodiac

I must agree, Veronica is very bright girl indeed.

I would like to hear more about your experiences invetigating the paranormal.

Have you seen the show sci-fi channel I think its called Ghost hunters?
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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:22:54 pm
 
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 04-30-2005 11:45 PM                       
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I echo all that, Veronica, you are a bright girl, and I wish you were happier.

Ghost Hunters, I've seen it on TV.

Has anyone here ever actually communicated with the dead..?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:23:19 pm
 
Volitzer

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After funerals I've seen the recently deceased in my dreams hooking up with some dead friends and then leaving out the door like you'd use a regular door but then they are never seen again.

Like to say that despite all the sorrow they're doing fine and just to reassure the living.
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Posts: 6577 | From: -in transition- | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:23:42 pm
 
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:27 PM                       
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Wow, pretty creepy, Volitzer. Do they ever say anything to you in your dreams?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:24:05 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:30 PM                       
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Does anyone have any idea what the afterlife is like? There has to be something, doesn't there, and each mythology of the world says something different.
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Posts: 269 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:24:54 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:45 PM                       
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I'll save you a lot of trouble. There is no afterlife, Trevor. When we die, we're dead, no worrying about going to heaven and hell, which means that all the hoops that organized religion makes you go through happens to be all one sick joke.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:26:32 pm
rockessence

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:55 PM                       
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Trevor,

In the "Books" thread I put a great book on this subject. I know that this is completely valid and I recommend reading this, hopefully before someone near to you dies.

http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:27:42 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:55 PM                       
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Why, thank you, Aristotle, I feel so much more enlightened now. Anyone else care to comment..?
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Posts: 269 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:28:08 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-01-2005 10:58 PM                       
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Thanks, Rockessence, glad we're not all skeptics here!
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:28:30 pm
rockessence

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:05 PM                       
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I am always a skeptic, actually. Experience must show validity.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 06, 2008, 09:29:25 pm
porthos

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:19 PM                   
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at the risk of opening myself up to ridicule I would like to know if anyone can explain an incident that happened to me about a year after the death of my first born child...Here's the scenario:

I'm driving home from work..I just pass over the railroad tracks of a town when I feel something (call it a cool breeze) sort of pass through me..Now something like that I could write off as a draft or something and think nothing more of it..but what really got me was that I had travelled approx 8 miles from the time I felt this sensation until I realized where I was and had no recollection driving that distance..

About 3 weeks later I found out I was pregnant with my third child who incidentally was born prematurely on the same day that my first child died...

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life is for the here and now...live it to the fullest...

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http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000215;p=2


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:05:07 am
Zodiac

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:34 PM                       
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Ah, no ridicule here, Porthos. It actually sounds like a soul entered into you while you were driving, I like to think it was the soul of the child you lost before, and so you regained what you had lost! Sounds cool to me.
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:05:24 am
porthos

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:39 PM                   
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you know zodiac, that thought crossed my mind but I really couldn't reconcile myself to it...even though my third child was 1. a boy 2. born on the same day as my first son (who by the way was also born on the same date that he died) 3. has the same look and mannerisms...but I'm still not sure...

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life is for the here and now...live it to the fullest...

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Posts: 104 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:05:45 am
Zodiac

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:50 PM                       
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You need to go to a psychic, Porthos! A good one. I'll bet you that they could tell you a lot of the things you might feel in your heart that you already know.

It was your son. Unlike what Aristotle says, there is no true death in this world, each of us goes on and on, taking new form, hopefully always learning, sometimes taking a step or two back. And only when we have learned all that we feel there is to know, that's when we find God.

That's my opinion anyway, and I'm sticking with it. I have yet to find something better.
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:06:01 am
Zodiac

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   posted 05-01-2005 11:54 PM                       
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Well, I have an exorcism I better go conduct, outta here...
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:06:20 am
rockessence

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   posted 05-02-2005 12:19 AM                       
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Similar circumstance happened to a close friend, whos youngest son was born in a similar fashion after the death of the previous toddler son. This son (now 15)apparently spoke of what he remembered happening "before" or "last time"...when he was a toddler.

We really need to listen to what the little ones say!

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:06:43 am
 
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 08:23 AM                   
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quote:
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I'll save you a lot of trouble. There is no afterlife, Trevor. When we die, we're dead, no worrying about going to heaven and hell, which means that all the hoops that organized religion makes you go through happens to be all one sick joke.
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Even worse. You can't die. In fact you are already dead. Let me explain.

The true person is a light being. This light being is composed of an essence that expands and by that act enters a state of death and disassocation into coinjoined parts. These parts you could classify under the 4 elements, with light being of the 5th, or the perfect harmonious conjunction of the four others. As you can see, it's from a harmonious unity that it goes into a disarray of the former unity.

When you die here, what happens is one of the four elements, the earth aspect, physical body, is broken, and so what happens is you end up in a state where there is no more rigidity or solidity. That's why you reincarnate again, to again acquire solidity and a
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:07:09 am
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 08:25 AM                   
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body.
The 'goal', if you call it that way, is to conjoin the 4 elements again in perfect harmony, to again 'resurrect' the body of light, which when awakened relative to 'this world', this state of the 4 elements in flux, is eternal and static, since here is flux and movement and the harmony of the 4 or 5th isn't.

Then you enter the 'real world'. This world here is like a collected massive dream, yet real.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:07:30 am
Trevor Proffitt

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And what exactly are the four elements after light, Vlad?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:07:49 am
 
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 09:12 PM                   
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Fire Earth Wind Water

http://bardon.freespeechsite.com/iih.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:08:34 am
 
Aristotle

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   posted 05-02-2005 09:15 PM                       
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Mankind is in a state of perpetual death. Even as he's born, he begins to die. There is a lot of talk of God everywhere, but what evidence have we ever been given to show that there actually is a spiritual world? Most of it is just poetry, created by scared minds who didn't want to face the truth: that we are all alone. And that the only thing that is actually looking out for us is actually ourselves.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:08:56 am
 
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 09:29 PM                   
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Think about this.

Asking for evidence or proof, implicates a polarity.
The demand for proof falls under the pole of the question.
The proof falls under the pole of the answer.

When both ends meet, a happy feeling is there. Just like when you find the answer to a question, you are satisfied.

The principle underlying this is that a polarity brought together into unity from seperation, results in the happyness aspect.

Now how do you resolve both poles into a unity?

Who ever forced you to ask for proof?
You can make up your own questions with your will.
Your thoughts and mental structures work in conjunction with it.

If you could now resolve all 'questions' you have in your mind, you could create a state wherein polarity is resolved in apolar balane.

And the latter -> happy feelings. Just like on a small scale with questions and answers, the principle operates on the feelings aspect in man.

Through 'resonance' you can also perceive that even the outer world with it's imbalance can shift into a more perfected world when the inner balance is there. Literally a kind of shift through time-space.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:09:21 am
Trevor Proffitt

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quote:
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Fire Earth Wind Water
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Should have figured it out on my own.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:09:41 am
rockessence

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   posted 05-02-2005 09:31 PM                       
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Originally there were the "Eight Powers".

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:10:01 am
 
Aristotle

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I force myself to ask for proof, Vlad. I don't need to buy into the belief system of another simply because they value it. I'm an atheist, some here would tell you that means I believe in nothing. Wrong. I believe in myself, and that is all that I need to believe in. I don't need to feel there is some higher powere looking over me. Most likely, there isn't. Those of you who believe there is will most likely be disappointed.

I hope everyone likes the new signature. I thought it was neccessary considering all the many differing points of view now floating around here.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:10:33 am
Baphomet

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There is a God, Aristotle, but he/she/it is simply not all good as the Christians would have you believe. God is a concept beyond good and evil. Perhaps the reason why prayers tend to get ignored is because we are so far beneath God's notice so as to be like ants and he cannot hear them.

Or perhaps God's side is losing the war between heaven and hell and Satan is now in charge of things. What better explantation could there be for this kind of world?  :)

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Posts: 173 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:11:00 am
unknown

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   posted 05-02-2005 09:56 PM                       
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Aristotle

I like it...

I am reading Bertrand Russels
History of Western philosphy for the second time now, Just about through the Aristotle section at the moment.

[ 05-02-2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:11:18 am
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-02-2005 10:09 PM                       
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You're a scary guy, Baphomet! If you are a guy, I'm betting you are.

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:11:40 am
Baphomet

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   posted 05-02-2005 10:28 PM                       
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Affirmative, little Stacy, and I'm betting that you're just the type of little girl that likes to get scared.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:12:15 am
Aristotle

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Thank you for the compliment, Unknown. I study Aristotle all the time. People don't believe it, but we actually share a similar point of view.

Baphomet, the whole concept of God is a flawed idea. I'll agree that God is neither good nor evil, I'll even go you one further...he isn't even here! Why do people always use God's incomrehensible divine nature to explain why he never prevents tragedy? The reason why these things happen is not because we don't understand the ways of God, they happen simply because there is no God, period! When all else fails, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:12:36 am
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-02-2005 10:41 PM                       
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You know, sometimes I like being scared, but I'm guessing that you might also be a little strange (maybe even a little kinky) in person, Baphomet. Why else would you pick such a weird name?

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:13:56 am
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-02-2005 10:50 PM                       
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Once again, Aristotle, you bring much negativity and enlightenment to the forum, thank you for sharing that with us.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:14:37 am
Aristotle

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Well, I certainly can't help it if most of you are too unwilling to see the truth. Add up all the proof that there actually is a God and you still have nothing. Faith and a collection of stories, most of which were fabricated, is all you have. There's actually a lot more proof for the existence of U.FO.'s, the whole alien phenomenon than there ever was for the almighty. And I don't believe in that either.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:15:24 am
 
Baphomet

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   posted 05-02-2005 11:02 PM                       
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Wrong. There is a God, he is just not the God that the religions of the world imagine. It is a God that defies your imagination.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Posts: 173 | Registered: Oct 2004   
 
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000215;p=3


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:35:58 am
 
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 11:06 PM                   
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What if God is your imagination?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:36:19 am
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 05-02-2005 11:35 PM                       
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What if God were simply a race of alien beings that populated the universe and were actually the ones to create, uhm, us?

Cause that's probably what happened.

The truth is out there, somewhere...
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:36:39 am
 
unknown

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:14 PM                       
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I'll fly away, oh glory

I'll fly away

some glad morning when this life is over
I'll fly away
to a land where joy shall never end...

I'll fly away

Like a bird from prison gates has flown...
I'll fly away

"I'll fly away"

[ 05-03-2005, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:36:58 am
Scorpio5

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   posted 05-12-2005 03:18 AM                       
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quote:
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What if God is your imagination?

What if God were simply a race of alien beings that populated the universe and were actually the ones to create, uhm, us?
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What if dead people were all around us, but we haven't the eyes to see them?

What if the dead are actually all of us, and yet none of us yet have gathered the will to yet pass on?
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:37:22 am
 
Zodiac

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   posted 05-12-2005 10:53 PM                       
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I see dead people.

"White Noise" out on DVD next week. Anyone seen it already?
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:37:45 am
zaphod

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Not yet..Waiting for the dead to get a hold of my video store...Didn't know it was comin out in DVD already...Interested to see how Michael Keaton pulls this one off..   ;)
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:38:21 am
 
Zodiac

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   posted 05-12-2005 11:19 PM                       
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Zaphod, any experiences seeing dead people yourself? I ask everybody that.   :)
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:38:43 am
zaphod

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   posted 05-12-2005 11:21 PM                       
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No, Not yet...Still hopeful tho..

Probably drop a load if I ever do!!!!
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:39:04 am
Zodiac

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I actually have seen ghosts. My hobby is to investigate the paranormal, I will share my experiences with you sometime...
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:39:48 am
Valkyrie

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What the heck is a psychopomp??

Psychopomp, is a very clunky sounding word. It means "soul conductor" . A psychopomp is a shaman with the ability to search for lost souls, find them and guide them home.

Sometimes when a death occurs, the Soul is caught unprepared. Depending on the person's spiritual or religious beliefs, the Soul may not remember where its spiritual home is.

The Soul of the person that has died, may stay with the physical body, not knowing where else to go, or if the person died in familiar surroundings such as his or her home, may stay there.

This Soul's natural journey back to its spiritual home, is then interrupted. The Soul needs help, it cannot continue the journey on its own. A psychopomp is needed.

When the physical body is near death, I meet with the Soul and show her or him the way to its spiritual home.

At the time of physical death, I watch over and guide the Soul, assuring safe return to its spiritual home.

____________________________________

COMA PATIENTS

____________________________________

Coma patients are those who have had nearly the entire Soul leave the body. There is just enough of the Soul remaining to keep the patient alive, but without consciousness.

The Physical World cannot live without the Spiritual World. The Human body cannot live without the soul. If the Soul leaves the body, death occurs.

Whatever the tramatic event that caused the Soul to flee the body, these Souls are either lost and cannot find their way back to the body, or are still deciding IF they want to return to the body, or go on to their Spiritual home.

Yes, this state can continue for weeks, months and years because time is not linear in the spiritual world. It is possible for a Soul that has been floating outside the body to belive that only a few moments have passed, when in physical reality it has been months or years.

It is possible to find these Souls and determine if they wish to return to the body and wake up. Then, if they wish it, guide them back to the physical body .

copyright Jennifer Sanfilipo, Jaguarheal

Email: Jennifer@jaguarheal.com
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http://www.angelfire.com/moon/fae/psychopomp.html
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Posts: 57 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Apr 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:40:09 am
Sandra Taylor

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I hope that Trent, who started this topic, and the rest of you who contributed to it, don't mind if I add some of my own research into this topic. Exploration into the afterlife has been an interest of mine since I was a child, and I'm grateful to find others here also in pursuit of this same goal.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:40:31 am

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The New Paranatural Paradigm

Claims of Communicating with the Dead
The paranatural paradigm deals with other dimensions of reality beyond our own and apart from the supernatural. Philosopher Paul Kurtz examines the paradigm in the context of life after death.

Paul Kurtz
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A new paranatural paradigm seems to be emerging in postmodern culture. There is great public fascination with a paranatural/paranormal conception of the universe, fed in large part by the mass media and encouraged by a number of "fringe sciences," which claim to support this outlook. The cultural backdrop for this is the development of postmodernism in the academy -- the denial that science provides us with objective truth, the belief that it is only one mythic narrative among others, and that a New Age paradigm is emerging that displaces or drastically modifies scientific naturalism.

What do I mean by the term "paranatural"? Science pre-supposes naturalism; that is, it seeks to develop causal explanations of natural phenomena, and it tests its hypotheses and theories by reference to the principles of logic, empirical observation, experimental prediction, and confirmation.

This is in contrast with supernatural explanations, which claim to deal with an order of existence beyond the visible or observable universe, and attributes events to occult causes. Supernaturalism postulates divine powers intervening miraculously in natural causal sequences. Thus it is alleged that the natural and material universe needs to be supplemented by a supernatural reality, which transcends human understanding and can only be approached by mysticism and faith. The domain of faith, it is said, supplements the domain of reason.

There are, however, two classes of events that stand between the natural and supernatural realms and enable us in some sense to deal with the occult. These refer to (1) paranormal and (2) paranatural phenomena. The term "paranormal" was used in the past century by parapsychologists (such as J.B. Rhine and Samuel Soal) to refer to a class of anomalous events that its proponents claimed were inexplicable in terms of normal materialistic sciences. "Para" meant "besides, alongside of, or beyond" naturalistic psychology. Nonetheless, these parapsychologists maintain that it was possible to describe and perhaps interpret these events experimentally, and they did so by referring to a range of psi phenomena, which referred to ESP, telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, and psychokinesis.

There is another range of events, which I have labeled as "paranatural," that deal with still other dimensions of reality: classical mystical or supernatural claims that allegedly intrude into our universe from without. I am here referring primarily to a theistic order of reality and to phenomena including discarnate souls, intelligent design, and "creation science." Visitations from extraterrestrials beyond this world may be considered to be both paranormal and paranatural. Included under this rubric of "paranatural" are some classical religious phenomena, such as weeping statues, stigmata, exorcism and possession, faith healing, the Shroud of Turin, past-life regressions used as evidence for reincarnation, historical revelations by prophets who carry messages from On High, and other so-called religious miracles. All of these have an empirical component and are not completely transcendental, and hence they are capable of some experimental testing and historical reconstruction of their claims. Although these anomalous events are beyond nature, in one sense, proponents of them seek to offer some kind of empirical evidence to support their hypotheses that there are nonnatural, nonmaterial, or spiritual processes at work in the universe.

I disagree with the claims of the defenders of the para: I do not think that either the paranormal or paranatural exist outside of nature or that they constitute dimensions of reality that undermine naturalism. Para is a substitute for our ignorance at any one time in history (as is the term "miracle," which is interjected when we do not understand the causes of phenomena). Indeed, as we expand the frontiers of knowledge, phenomena considered para can, I submit, be given naturalistic or normal explanations, and this range of phenomena can either be interpreted by the existing body of explanatory scientific principles or by the introduction of new ones.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/paranatural.html

[ 05-15-2005, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: Sandra Taylor ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:40:51 am
                    
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The Paranatural Paradigm and Life After Death
I wish to illustrate this by dealing with the intriguing question: What is the evidence for life after death? Can we communicate with the dead? That is, Are we able to be in touch with people who have died? Do they have some form of existence, perhaps as "discarnate spirits" or "disembodied souls"? This is an age-old question that is related to faith in immortality and a very deep hunger for it. Although it has been interpreted as "paranormal," it may more appropriately be considered to be "paranatural" because of its religious significance. Indeed, for the great supernatural religions of the world -- Christianity, Judaism, and Islam -- belief in an afterlife and the promise of heaven are central.

At present there is intense popular interest in these questions in the United States. It is stimulated by the mass media, at least as measured by the number of popular books, magazine articles, movies, and television and radio programs devoted to the theme. The films The Sixth Sense (with Bruce Willis and Haley Osment) and Frequency are examples of the prevailing interest, as are the best-selling books by James Van Praagh (Talking to Heaven, 1997; Reaching to Heaven, 1999), John Edward (One Last Time, 1998), Sylvia Browne (The Other Side and Back, 1999), and Rosemary Altea (You Own the Power, 1999). Dan Rather on CBS, the Fox TV network, Larry King Live, and other talk-show hosts have devoted many uncritical programs to these claims. For example, the HBO TV network did a special last year, "Life Afterlife," purporting to present the scientific examination of survival. It interviewed dozens of people, all of whom claim to have communicated with the dead, and several parapsychologists, all arguing the case for survival. Included in this special were critical comments by two skeptics -- one more than usual! This is supposed to constitute a "balanced" documentary, and it is typical of the state of American media when dealing with paranatural or paranormal claims. There are all too few objective programs examining such questions; most favor a spiritual-paranormal interpretation.

As a result of a massive media onslaught, polls in the last decade place the United States as number one in belief in life after death in the democratic world, and higher than virtually all European countries. Two cross-national surveys conducted for the International Social Survey Program in 1991 and 19931 indicate that the United States ranked highest, along with Ireland and the Philippines, for those who believe in heaven (63.17% of the population), highest for those who believe in hell (49.6%), and highest for those who believe in life after death (55%). The US was lowest of twenty-one nations on knowledge of human evolution (44.2%), lower than Poland and Russia. Recent polls have shown the level of credulity growing in the past decade. In 1996 a poll conducted by Goldhaber Associates (at the State University of New York at Buffalo) indicated that 90 percent of Americans were either "religious" or "somewhat religious."2 A recent poll conducted for Newsweek magazine by the Princeton Survey Research Associates, based on a sample of 752 adults interviewed indicated that 84 percent of Americans said that God performed miracles and 77 percent said saints or God can cure people otherwise medically incurable.3 Paradoxically, the US is allegedly the most advanced scientific-technological society in the world.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/paranatural.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:41:41 am
                
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A History of Life After Death Claims
What do scientists have to say about life after death? As the readers of Skeptical Inquirer know, science has been investigating our ability to communicate with the dead for at least 150 years and it has attempted to discover empirical evidence in support of the claim. It began to do so with the emergence of spiritualism in the nineteenth century; more specifically, with the Fox sisters (Margaret and Kate), two young girls in Hydesville, New York (outside of Rochester), who in 1848 first claimed that they could receive messages from "the spirit world beyond." In their presence, there were strange rappings; people would receive answers to their questions spelled out by the number of taps (Kurtz 1985). The basic premise was that human personality survived death and could communicate with specially endowed mediums. In the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century spiritualism swept the United States, England, and Europe. Thousands of mediums soon appeared, all seemingly capable of communicating with the dead. The most popular method of investigation was to try to communicate in a specially darkened sZ<caron>ance room, wherein the discarnate entity would make its presence known by physical or verbal manifestations: table tipping, levitation of objects, ectoplasmic emissions, teleportation, materializations, automatic writings, etc.

A committee of medical doctors at the University of Buffalo tested the Fox sisters in 1851 and attributed their raps to the cracking of their toe knuckles or knee caps against a wooden floor or bedstead. The physicians did a controlled experiment by placing the girls' feet on pillows, and nothing happened. The great physicist Michael Farraday investigated table tipping (1852) and found that it was due to pressure exerted by the fingers of the sitters (whether voluntarily or involuntarily). Sir Walter Crookes investigated the most colorful mediums of the day, D. D. Home (1871) and Florence Cook (1873), and thought that they had special abilities of mediumship -- though critics believe that he was duped by both (Hall 1962, 1984).

The Society for Psychical Research was founded in 1882 in Great Britain by Henry Sidgwick, Richard Hodgson, F. W. H. Myers, Edmund Gurney, and others to investigate survival of life after death, among other questions. The American branch of the Society for Psychical Research was founded in 1885 by William James at Harvard. These researchers examined reports of apparitions and ghostly hauntings. It was difficult to corroborate these subjective eyewitness accounts and so these investigations focused on physical manifestations. There were numerous photographs of ghosts -- which it was soon discovered could easily be doctored. Many famous mediums such as Eusapia Palladino (in Italy) and Leonora Piper (in Boston) were tested under controlled conditions in an effort to determine whether they possessed extraordinary powers.

Palladino was especially elusive, and the scientific community was split as to whether she was fraudulent. The Feilding Report was an account of sittings done in Naples (1909) by a team of scientists who thought she was genuine. Palladino was also tested in the United States at Harvard by Hugo Muensterberg (1909) and at Columbia University (1910) by a team of scientists; and in both cases the physical levitation of the table behind her and the feeling of being pinched by her spirit control (called John King) was found to be caused by her adroit ability to stretch her leg in contortions and to pinch sitters with her toes, or levitate a small table behind her. This was detected by having a man dressed in black crawl under the table and see her at work. A subsequent Feilding report (1911) also found that she had cheated (Kurtz 1985).

Late in his career the famous magician Houdini (1874-1926) exposed several bogus mediums. By the 1920s the spiritualist movement was thoroughly discredited, because when the controls were tightened, the effect disappeared; skeptics insisted that if a person claims to be in contact with a spiritual entity, there must be some independent physical corroboration by impartial observers (Houdini 1924, 1981).

In the 1930s the survival question in science was laid aside. J.B. Rhine and others focused instead on psi phenomena, again with controversial results, because scientists demanded replicable experiments by neutral observers, which were difficult to come by (Hansel 1980). In any case, whether or not psi existed was independent of the survival question.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:42:06 am
                      
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Spiritualism Returns
In recent decades interest in the survival question has reappeared. This is rather surprising to skeptical investigators. No doubt this revival of interest is due in part to the growth of religiosity and spirituality on the broader American cultural scene, but is also due to the sensationalism of the mass media. I can only briefly outline some of the claims that had been made and the kinds of research that has been done. Most of this work is highly questionable, for the standards of rigorous methodological inquiry so essential to science seem to have declined drastically from what occurred in the early part of the last century.

(1) Channeling to the other side. Surprisingly, a new class of mediums, now called channelers, have emerged (such as James Van Praagh, John Edward, Sylvia Browne, and Rosemary Altea previously cited) who claim to be able to be put themselves into immediate contact with a dead relative or friend and to convey a message back from them. Thus, what we have are subjective reports based on the word of the channeler that he or she is in touch with the departed spirit. There are two ways that this is done. First, there are "hot" readings, when the channeler may know something by previous research about the person being read. A good case of this is Arthur Ford, who did a reading of Bishop James Pike and claimed he was in contact with his son who had committed suicide. It was discovered after Ford's death that he had done extensive background investigation of Pike's son before the reading. The most common method used, however, is the skillful use of "cold readings" by the channeler. The public here is taken in by flim-flammery, and there is all too little effort to critically examine the claims made.

There has been a massive shift in the methodology used. If in previous decades scientists demanded some corroborative and/or physical manifestation of mediumship, today all rigorous standards of evidence and verification seem to have been abandoned. Psychologist Ray Hyman has shown how a psychic gives a general cold reading: if he throws out messages from the spirit world to an audience someone will usually emerge to whom it fits (Hyman 1977). Thus, he may ask, "Does anyone know a Mary, or a William?" And most likely a person will step forth who does, and then the reading proceeds, on a hit-and-miss basis. The skillful channeler simply has to have one or two lucky hits to mystify the audience.

(2) Apparitions and other sightings. Similar considerations apply to the epidemic of eyewitness testimonials that people have been reporting of ghostly apparitions, angels, and other ethereal entities. Such stories are pervasive today, since a tale once uttered may spread rapidly throughout the population; this is facilitated by the mass media and becomes contagious. If someone claims to see ghosts or angels, other people, perhaps millions, may likewise begin to encounter them.

What is so curious is that people who see ghosts usually see them clothed. It is one thing to say that a discarnate soul has survived, but that his or her clothing and other physical objects have survived is both amusing and contrary to the laws of physics.

The most parsimonious explanation that we have for this phenomenon is that it is in the eye of the beholder, satisfying some deep-felt need, a transcendental temptation or will-to-believe. The demand for independent objective verification seems to be ignored. It is puzzling why so many people will accept uncorroborated subjective reports, particularly when we find them unreliable. The death of a loved one can cause untold psychological trauma, and there are powerful motives, psychological and indeed sociological, for believing in their survival. Thus there are naturalistic psychological and sociological explanations that better account for the prevalence of such phenomenological givens, without the need to postulate discarnate beings or our ability to communicate with them.

Let me briefly outline two other areas of survival research, which at least claim to be more carefully designed.

(3) Death-bed visions. Osis and Haraldsson (1974, 1977) sent out questionnaires to doctors and nurses to ask them to describe the verbal accounts of death-bed visions of people in their last moments of dying. The question is whether these persons were able to communicate with departed friends or relatives at the last moment or were merely hallucinating, as skeptics suggest they were. In any case, virtually all of this data is second-hand, and is influenced by cultural expectations that when we die we will meet people on the other side.

(4) The phenomenology of near-death experience. This is a very popular area of research today, widely touted as evidence for communication, and based on first-hand testimony. Much research has gone into this intriguing area by Raymond Moody (1975, 1977), Elizabeth Kubler-Ross (1981), Kenneth Ring (1980, 1984, 1998), Michael Sabom (1982), and Melvin Morse (1990), among others. These extended phenomenological reports claim to give us evidence from the other side from people who were dying and resuscitated. There is an out-of-body experience, a vision of a tunnel, a bright light, a recall of one's life, and perhaps a meeting of beings on the other side.

Critics claim that the descriptive collage offered is of the dying process, and that in no case do we have reports of persons who have died (i.e., experienced brain death) and communicated with those on the other side. There are a variety of alternative naturalistic explanations. Skeptics maintain we are most likely dealing with psychological phenomena, where the person facing death has either hallucinations, has reached a state of depersonalization, and/or there are changes in brain chemistry and the nervous system (Blackmore 1993). Some have postulated that the discarnate entities or divine beings encountered on the other side are colored by the socio-cultural context (Kellehear 1996); though proponents maintain that in spite of this there is a common core of similarities. Some have said that falls or accidents where a person thinks he is about to die, but survives, can cause analogous out-of-body experiences and panoramic reviews (Russell Noyes 1972, 1977). Not everyone who is dying reports near-death experiences; many and people who are not dying report having them. Sleep paralysis and hypnopompic and hypnagogic dream states are factors in common out-of-body experiences. Ronald Siegel (1981) maintains that similar NDEs can be induced by hallucinogens. Karl Jansen (1996) has presented evidence that they can be stimulated by the dissociative drug ketamine. Various conditions can precipitate an NDE, such as low blood sugar, oxygen deprivation, reduced blood flow, temporal-lobe epilepsy, etc., and can lead to an altered state of consciousness. For skeptics, in no case can we say that the person has died and returns; what we are dealing with is the process or belief that one is dying.

Analytic philosophers have pointed out additional serious conceptual difficulties in the hypothesis that nonphysical beings are communicating with us -- there is a sharp mind/body dualism here. Perhaps the real question is not whether there is sufficient evidence for "x," but the meaning of "x"; and whether we can communicate with "disembodied entities" who have a level of consciousness without sensory organs or a brain. Some have claimed that the communication is "telepathic," but the experimental evidence for telepathy is itself questionable.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:42:34 am
Sandra Taylor

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Conclusion
After a quarter of a century in this field of research, I find that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, and that unless carefully controlled studies and standards are applied, people can deceive themselves and others into believing that almost anything is true and real -- from past-life regression and extraterrestrial abductions to satanic infestations and near-death experiences.

What should be the posture of the scientific investigator about paranatural survival claims? Clearly, we need an open mind, and we should not reject a priori any such claim; if claims are responsibly framed they should be carefully evaluated. After a century and a half of scientific research, what are we to conclude? I submit that there is insufficient reliable or objective evidence that some individuals are able to reach another plane of existence beyond this world and/or communicate with the dead. As far as we know, the death of the body entails the death of psychological functions, consciousness, and/or the personality; and there is no reason to believe that ghosts hover and haunt and/or can communicate with us.

I realize that this flies in the face of what the preponderance of humans wish to believe, but science should deal as best it can with what is the case, not with what we would like it to be. Unfortunately, scientific objectivity today has an uphill battle in this area in the face of media hype and the enormous public fascination with paranormal and paranatural claims.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:43:04 am
Sandra Taylor

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Notes

1. Currently based at the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago.

2. "Religious Belief in America: A New Poll," Free Inquiry 16(3) (Summer 1996), pp. 34-40.

3. Religion News Service, April 13, 2000.


References

* Altea, Rosemary. 1999. You Own the Power: Stories and Exercises. New York: William Morrow.
* Blackmore, Susan J. 1993. Dying to Live. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
* Browne, Sylvia, with Lindsay Harrison. 1999. The Other Side and Back: A Psychic's Guide to Our World and Beyond. New York: Dutton.
* Edward, John. 1998. One Last Time: A Psychic Medium Speaks to Those We Have Loved and Lost. New York: Berkeley Books.
* Feilding, E., W.W. Baggally, and H. Carrington. 1909. Report on a series of sittings with Eusapia Palladino. Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research 23: 306-569.
* Feilding, E., and W. Marriott. 1911. Report on a further series of sittings with Eusapia Palladino at Naples. Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research 25.
* Hall, Trevor H. 1962. The Spiritualists: The Story of Florence Cook and William Crookes. London: Duckworth.
* ---. 1984. The Enigma of Daniel Home: Medium or Fraud? Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
* Hansel, C.E.M. 1980. ESP and Parapsychology: A Critical Evaluation. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
* Houdini, Harry. 1924. A Magician Among the Spirits. New York: Harper.
* ---. 1981. Miracle Mongers and Their Methods: A Complete Expose. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
* Hyman, Ray. 1977. Cold reading: How to convince strangers that you know all about them. The Zetetic (Skeptical Inquirer) 1(2).
* Jansen, K.L.R. 1996. Using ketamine to induce the near-death experience: Mechanism of action and therapeutic potential. Yearbook of Ethnomedicine and the Study of Consciousness, no. 4.
* Kellehear, Allan. 1996. Experiences Near Death: Beyond Medicine and Religion. New York: Oxford University Press.
* Kubler-Ross, Elisabeth. 1981. Living with Death and Dying. New York: Macmillan.
* Kurtz, Paul, ed. 1985. A Skeptic's Handbook of Parapsychology. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
* Moody, Raymond A., Jr. 1975. Life After Life: The Investigation of a Phenomenon-Survival of Bodily Death. Covington, Calif.: Mockingbird Books.
* ---. 1977. Reflections on Life After Life. New York: Bantam Books.
* ---. 1999. The Last Laugh: A New Philosophy of Near-Death Experiences, Apparitions, and the Paranormal. Charlottesville, Va.: Hampton Road Publishing Co.
* Morse, Melvin, and Paul Perry. 1990. Closer to the Light: Learning from the Near-Death Experiences of Children. New York: Ballantine Books.
* Neher, Andrew. 1981. The Psychology of Transcendence. Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall.
* Noyes, Russell Jr., and Roy Klette. 1972. The experience of dying from falls. Omega 3:45-52.
* ---. 1977. Depersonalization in response to life-threatening danger. Comparative Psychology 18: 375-384.
* ---. 1977. Panoramic memory: A response to the threat of death. Omega, 8.
* Osis, Karles, and Eilendur Haraldsson. 1974. Survey of death visions in India. In W.G. Roll, et al., eds, Research in Parapsychology 1973. Metuchen, N.J.: Scarecrow Press.
* ---. 1977. Deathbed observations by physicians and nurses: A cross-cultural survey. Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research 71: 237-259.
* Ring, Kenneth. 1980. Life at Death: A Scientific Investigation of the Near-Death Experience. New York: Coward, McCann and Geoghegan.
* ---. 1984. Heading toward Omega: In Search of Near-Death Experience. New York: William Morrow.
* ---. 1998. Lessons from the Light: What We Can Learn from the Near-Death Experience. Reading, Mass.: Perseus Books.
* Sabom, Michael B. 1982. Recollections of Death: A Medical Investigation. New York: Harper & Row.
* Siegel, Ronald. 1981. "Life After Death." In Science and the Paranormal: Probing the Existence of the Paranormal, ed. by G.O. Abell and B. Singer. New York: Scribners.
* Van Praagh, James. 1997. Talking to Heaven: A Medium's Message of Life after Death. New York: Dutton.
* --. 1999. Reaching to Heaven: A Spiritual Journey through Life and Death. New York: Dutton.
* This paper was delivered at the annual meeting of the American Physical Society, held in Minneapolis, March 22, 2000.

About the Author
Paul Kurtz is professor emeritus of philosophy at the University of New York at Buffalo and the founding chairman of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:43:30 am
Sandra Taylor

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Communicating with the DEAD

by Keelynet

Communicating with the Dead using the principle of Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP).

In a stunning breakthrough, two different teams of researchers, one in the US and the other in Germany, have both developed devices that let them talk with the dead.

So far, they are said to have actually held conversations with at least nine "dead" people.

Konstantin Raudive did much original work in this area which has been carried on by Dr. Walter Uphoff, George Meek and the Fishbach family of Germany.

"This is undeniable proof that there is life after death," declared Dr. Ernst Senkowski, Professor of Physics at the Technical College of Bingen, West Germany.

"They have shown us wit, personality, memory and an active mind. They are as much 'alive' now as when they had physical bodies.

Researcher George Meek, director of the MetaScience Foundation in Franklin, N.C. says, "Our findings give us undeniable proof that the dead ARE TRYING to contact us."

On both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, researchers have found that the dead tell the same story: In the spirit world, there is no concept of time or distance and no need for food. Spirits can observe the living and perform such feats as reading books without opening them.

The electronic devices are similar to ham radios, except that they receive 13 different frequencies at once. "The voices of the dead are about twice the speed of normal human speech and they have a rhythm that is different from our own - almost a flat monotone," explained researcher Meek.

And in Germany, Dr. Senkowski said that of the four dead people he's talked with, "one is a Hamburg dockmaster who died in 1965. We verified this information. He told us that he was well and happy."

"Another is a Hamburg steam engineer who died in 1959. He told us to give greetings to his wife, calling her by the special nickname, 'Little Dwarf.' And when we gave her the message, she told us it was a very personal nickname known only to her and her husband. She took it as proof that the person who contacted us was indeed her dead husband."

The dead have given Dr. Senkowski details of the afterlife, "I once tried to arrange a 3 PM conversation with one," he said. "He told me that was impossible because he had no concept of time or distance." And one day Dr. Senkowski received a bizarre communication from a female spirit. "I was wearing a gold chain around my neck rather than the silver one I usually wear," he recalled.

"Then suddenly a young women's voice spoke through the machine. 'There is a gold chain around your neck today - not a silver one', she said. "I have been observing you."

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/dreams_auras_astral_projection/evp1.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:43:57 am
Sandra Taylor

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Meek's team developed a radio based system which they call SPIRICOMM. It used a medium (psychically sensitive) with technical skills to operate an electronic arrangement which produced 13 simultaneous audio signals.

The "departed" can somehow suppress those signals in such a fashion as to generate intelligible speech. As the machine was being tuned for the best operation, the technician was being "guided" by voice from the other side. A most interesting arrangement.

One of the spirits Meek's team has talked to some 25 times identifies himself as Dr. George J. Mueller, an electrical engineer who died in 1967 of a heart attack.

"Dr. Mueller told us where to find his birth and death certificate records. He told us he graduated from Cornell University with a degree in Engineering and that he taught there," said Meek.

Amazingly, according to records at Cornell, what Mueller said was true.

Dr. Mueller told the researchers to read pages 66 and 67 from the book, "Introduction to Electronics" that he'd written in 1947, said Meek, who found that 'pages 66 and 67 were an overall view of what man had done and what he could do in electronics. And it related directly to our breakthrough! Dr. Mueller also told us that in the spirit world each person can assume the outer appearance of any time in his or her life.'

Dr. Mueller also told the researchers that he no longer felt any need for food, and that he could read any page that he wanted in any book just by looking through the book's cover. He told us that he was happy and we should not fear death, and that he has friends in the afterlife.

And Dr. William Tiller, full Professor of Material Sciences at Stanford University and a Visiting Professor in the Department of Electrical Engineering at the University of Delaware, added, "My feeling is that this development should start a series of breakthroughs in afterlife research."

Further information which we of Vangard Sciences found of interest was a comment made by a "departed" technician relating to how they can manipulate energy.

Since there is no physical matter on their level, all they have to work with is energy. By causing the energy to flow in a vortex, it naturally achieves a focal point which allows action to occur from their level to our physical level.

The technician stated that they were still learning how to "tap the spiral" which shows that the ever tightening spiral segments increase in power as they condense toward the center or focal point.

Mr. Meek's contacts state that they have groups (of departed entities) some with up to 200 participants trying to help devise a reliable system for DIRECT COMMUNICATION.

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/dreams_auras_astral_projection/evp1.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:44:25 am
         
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In a phone conversation with George about 3 years ago, he said they were getting phenomenal information relating to a wide range of new technologies.

The last we heard was that MetaScience was working on a device for direct VISUAL INTERACTIVE COMMUNICATION with the "dead".

Two other excellent workers in this field are our friends Walter and Mary Jo Uphoff with the New Frontiers Center. They have an excellent newsletter and travel widely to keep up on the latest research.

Walter gave a presentation to the 1988 7th Int'l Psychotronics Association meeting in Georgia in which he showed videos of work done by the Fishbachs of Germany. These showed how they had actually received images on a TV screen from departed entities.

In a private conversation with Walter, he graciously showed us a schematic of how the German video system is setup. He kindly gave us a copy of the diagram with German labels which he translated.

Ron recently received a short letter from Mary Jo Uphoff informing us that Walter had taken ill. He was hospitalized at the time of the writing (June 90) and not doing too well. We hope Walter recovers as quickly and fully as possible.

Mary Jo continues that the New Frontiers newsletter would be on hold for a short while until Walter gets better. Back issues are available however.

If you would like to experiment in this area, we will provide a very basic description of how to do simple EVP work.

The original discovery came when a naturalist in Europe was making magnetic tape recordings in a wooded area. When playing the tape back, he heard strange high pitched whining, which, when amplified turned out to be almost intelligible phrases in several different languages.

Modern techniques developed by Konstantin Raudive use a regular tape recorder with a germanium diode as the ONLY AUDIO INPUT. Take a 1N914 germanium diode from Radio Shack and solder it to a plug made to fit the MIC input.

When plugged into the jack and the volume is turned up to the highest it will go, the diode apparently will pickup up a very wide range of frequencies.

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/dreams_auras_astral_projection/evp1.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:44:52 am
                   
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These frequencies are modulated by the "departed entities" so that careful listening to the playback will yield some form of intelligible phrase. Of course, there are several ways to enhance the intelligibility.

These include slowing down the tape and various forms of filtering using an equalizer.

This is the basis of the original EVP experiments.

The unit MetaScience worked on went through several modifications of which we have only limited information at this time (Mark IV). We know that 13 audio frequency generators (individually tuneable) were all powered on at the same time.

As we understand it, the technician must be sensitive to departed entities and can adjust (optimize) the precise frequency (thus the relationships) as guided by the entity whom he knows to be present and speaking.

We understand that there have been improvements with the use of a carrier frequency in the range of 47 MHz, but we have no further data on this.

Dr. Uphoff gave us a diagram for visual imaging of the "dead". As we understand it, when the camera is turned onto the TV and continually recycled through the VCR, within about 50 passes it begins to become sensitive to modulation by outside agencies.

Pictures of Romi Schneider (famous German actress), Albert Einstein and other entities, including many family members of the experimenters have appeared and been captured on the videotape in the VCR.

The experiment must be carried out under conditions conducive to minimal disturbances and not hostile to results.

As we understand this, Keely referred to the establishment of what he termed a "Sensitized Centre".

This was a stable geometric form, either in matter or energy which when so differentiated (optimal energy transference) became subject to extremely small outside stimuli. This of course would be the nature of emanations radiated from "discarnate entities".

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/dreams_auras_astral_projection/evp1.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:49:41 am
Changing Perspectives on Life After Death


by Theresa Welsh
People used to debate whether there was an “afterlife” without mentioning the “beforelife” or much debate about what this discarnate “life” might be like. But today, the sophistication of information about the life of the spirit -- and the desire for such information -- has increased greatly

books: The Case for an Afterlife by Roy Ald (1968), Life Without Death? by Nils O. Jacobson (1974), Journey of Souls (1994) by Michael Duff Newton; Ultimate Journey by Robert Monroe (1996)
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It’s a curious fact that even our perceptions about what constitutes evidence of whether we exist before or after our earthly life changes with time. The Christian religion teaches that there is an afterlife, but is silent on the subject of where we are before birth. It also provides little insight about what the life after death must consist of. In the early years of Christianity, many believed in reincarnation, but that belief was outlawed at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. In the Jewish religion, there is no requirement of any belief in an afterlife, but the Hasidic Jews, who study the Kabbalah, do believe in reincarnation. For most people growing up in the 40s, 50s, or 60s, the whole subject was a big question mark with few places to turn for information. They could either just accept whatever their church told them, or they could look at stories about paranormal happenings and consider it proof of survival of death.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:50:00 am
An Author’s Experience
I have two older books that deal with this topic. The oldest, from 1968, is called The Case for an Afterlife by Roy Ald. Ald was a writer who got interested in the subject through an extraordinary personal experience that convinced him that the spirit survives death. He tell us the following story. He was supposed to get on a plane but had an overpowering urge to go back to a restaurant in the terminal where he thought he might have left something. It was irrational because he could see he had his bag and his ticket. Back at the restaurant, he found he had left nothing there and began his way back to the gate, walking at a slow pace despite having very little time before the plane left. As he forced himself to walk faster, he felt a restraining hand on his shoulder. He turned to find no one there. The delay caused him to miss his plane. Soon afterward, he learned the plane had crashed. What made the story remarkable was his insight about who the mysterious hand might have belonged to.

The author had a friend, a talented artist, who had passed away after a long illness. The author had once saved the man’s life by responding to a sudden urge to call his friend at home. Getting no answer, he was worried and went to the man’s apartment and found him passed out on the floor. The author located the pills the man took when he got these dizzy spells and got him to take the medication, bringing the man back from certain death. This man told Ald that in gratitude, he would take care of him.
But that’s not the end. The man that Ald saved had himself had a similar experience of being saved from a fatal accident. As a young man, he had fallen in love, but his lover had died. He faced life too discouraged to pursue his talent as an artist until one day he was about to board a train, but was late. As he ran to catch the train and was about to jump on, he felt a hand grab him and pull him back. The train left without him, but it soon suffered an accident and all onboard were killed. The man who had almost gotten on that train was sure it had been his departed lover whose hand had saved him. This gave him the courage to face life and pursue his talent as an artist. He felt all his life that his departed lover watched over him, so when his friend, the author, saved him he promised to reciprocate. And naturally when the mysterious hand grabbed the author at the airport and saved him from dying in a plane crash, he felt it was his departed friend taking care of him.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:50:22 am
True Stories of Strange Experiences
Roy Ald’s book is full of stories of similar happenings. In one of the most incredible, an old lady who is at a cemetery with a funeral party disappears, then is found to have taken a cab to a stranger’s apartment and assumed the identity of another woman. In her new identity, she had taken on the personality, gestures, and knowledge of the departed woman who had lived in the apartment with her niece, the niece’s husband, and her retired father, a Jewish scholar who went each day to the synagogue. It was the belief of the older man that this woman could have been taken over by the spirit of his departed sister. The woman lived in their home for seven months as “Aunt Tessie” before one day going to the laundry room and suddenly returning to her right identity. She walked out to the street and took a cab home and remembered nothing about the time she had spent in the other home. This case is interesting because "Aunt Tessie" seemed unaware she had taken over someone else's body and there is no indication as to why she did it or why she suddenly left.

In another story in this book, a New York cab driver picks up one of his regular fares, an older lady who has been an actress all her life and is currently appearing in a play. The cabbie had not been driving his regular customers for a few days because he had been sick, but this day he went back to his routine and looked for the lady where she usually waited. He sees her there and lets her into the cab and drives to the theater. But when he arrives at the theater and stops the cab, there is no lady in the back seat. Puzzled, he goes back over part of his route. Failing to find her, he goes back to the theater and asks the doorman if the lady showed up, only to learn that the lady had passed away a few days ago. He had apparently driven a ghost to the theater.

In other stories, a soldier killed in Viet Nam on his way to get a plane home for his mother’s funeral shows up at the funeral home, seen by all family members who did not know of his death. In another story, a dead prostitute continues to see clients (talk about having sex that is “out of this world!!”). And a Holocaust survivor is saved from being lowered into a pool of sewage by the materialized arm of a man recently killed who had protected her while he was alive.

The ghosts in these stories do not just appear, they interact with living people. In one story a ghost with an ax kills several people, and in another story a “haunted” jail cell is the scene of several murders by a former occupant who died after a severe beating in that cell. The author attempts no explanation of these things, but does provide information on how they were documented. He included only incidents where he personally interviewed those involved. I find it interesting that he classifies these as “evidence for an afterlife.” Today, we would probably classify them as psi phenomenon, very interesting events that show us we might not understand reality as we think we do.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:50:40 am
Is There Really Any Evidence for an Afterlife?
But as “evidence of an afterlife” these stories tell us little or nothing about what it's like in the other realm. Don’t bother looking for the Roy Ald book as it is so long out of print it doesn’t even show up in Amazon.Com as an “out-of-print” book. I got my yellowed copy at a used book store.

Also unavailable is another book I have that really got me thinking about survival of the spirit after death. This book is Life Without Death? by Nils O. Jacobson, M.D., a translation from Swedish published in 1971. It takes a much more sophisticated approach, connecting the paranormal with the idea of survival of death, but going beyond that to examine the meaning of consciousness and to formulate some theories on how survival works. The book examines possession, telepathy, reincarnation, astral travel, clairvoyance, and precognition, along with possible explanations of what might happen at birth and death. It looks at both unusual events of the sort reported in Roy Ald’s book as well as scientific experiments. It is an ambitious look at the whole subject.

Dr. Jacobson’s book covers a lot of territory, but some of the information jumped out at me. In one section, he talks about an experiment done a hundred years ago by Duncan McDougall with people who were dying. He placed their bed on a weighing platform and took measurements. As they neared death, they lost weight as was expected. But at the moment of death a sudden and unexplainable loss of 21 grams was registered. This held true for each dying person. These experiments have never been repeated (at least they hadn’t as of the writing of this book) and I have never seen a report of this experiment anywhere but in this book. In other experiments, people photographed or saw a misty substance above the dying person’s body, or saw a silver cord break. In other experiments I have read about nowhere else, Dr. Jacobson talks about strange voices heard on tape recordings that turn out to be messages from the beyond. This phenomenon was studied by Konstantin Raudive who published a book on it in 1968.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:51:00 am
Beyond the Physical Senses
Dr. Jacobson’s book presents many hypotheses about how life after death might work and how consciousness could be separated from the brain. The perceptions of those who have passed over are not based on physical senses, but the same is true of the sleeping state in which we see things clearly and vividly. He has much information about the mystical experience, which can be considered a glimpse into another realm, where seeing and knowing are not from physical senses. Here is a quote from a Canadian doctor in 1872, describing a mystical experience: “…there came upon me a sense of exultation, of immense joyousness accompanied or immediately followed by an intellectual illumination impossible to describe. Among other things I did not merely come to believe, but I saw that the universe is not composed of dead matter, but is, on the contrary, a living Presence…”

Dr. Jacobson’s description of a OBE (Out of Body Experience) is very similar to that of Robert Monroe in his book, Ultimate Journey. Dr. Jacobson writes: ”In isolated cases, it has appeared possible to remove the self from the body’s presence to regions which do not seem to belong to the physical plane.” But Monroe goes way beyond the confines of this earthly plane in his OBEs. His spirit travels the “interstate” and meets other souls, even taking a task on himself of helping others who have just crossed over. He gives us a picture of souls who pass over and don’t understand their situation without help. Most newly-deceased are met by souls they know but some remain in a location where they don’t belong, or just fail to move on as they should. He talks about a place where people stuck in certain belief systems go to be with others who believe as they do. These belief systems retard their growth and keep them in the same spiritual realm for many lifetimes until they can move beyond.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:51:20 am
What is the Other Realm Like?
Monroe’s world of souls is very similar to the spirit world revealed in Journey of Souls. In this last book, written by psychologist Michael Newton, each soul who passes over is met by a guide. These guides have been watching over the souls in their care for many lifetimes. The guides are sometimes people still living, or they may be people who were not part of the soul’s last life. But the guide is a compassionate being who has the task of helping the souls entrusted to him to reach enlightenment. Through the interviews with subjects recalling past lives, we learn that new souls are always being created and the people alive now comprise many newer souls.
Robert Monroe’s book is in many ways more credible than Newton's, but it is not for anyone who has no exposure to the spirit world. It is tough reading because Monroe is writing about a realm most of us have not seen (or at least that we don’t remember). He travels in this spirit realm with total assurance, but with a seeker’s yearning to find the ultimate truth. Robert Monroe founded the Monroe Institute which offers seminars and does research into remote viewing and out of body experiences. I believe Monroe really took the journeys he writes about and has tried through his Institute to bring the knowledge of these realms to others. His experiences are real and not happenings recalled under hypnosis, but of course, we have only Robert Monroe to tell us they are real.

What emerges in these books is that after death we remain who we are, bringing our hopes and fears with us. We never escape problems by dying and our concern for those still in the material world remains. However, our capacity to know and learn is greater in the spirit world, and we can move up to higher levels where our interest in our last life will wane and our joy will increase. We will return to the earth in a new body to learn more lessons or to make up for past sins, but as we advance in spiritual wisdom, we will not want to return. We will take on more tasks connected with helping other, less experienced souls.

The cases in Journey of Souls are all based on hypnosis. They have a fantastic internal consistency that makes me wonder if there is an influence from the hypnotist. Does everyone really have a guide who meets them at death? Monroe’s experiences in that realm would seem to indicate otherwise. The stories in Journey of Souls give us a hopeful picture of this world and the next. Our spirit guides, we learn, are with us all the time, helping us behind the scenes while we are on this earth and helping us directly when we depart. After each life, they conduct an informal review of how we lived and what we should have learned. Life, in this picture of reality, is about learning and improving and reaching higher levels of awareness. More advanced souls help the less advanced. It's an inspiring picture and I hope it's true, but the method of obtaining the information -- hypnosis -- leaves me with a shred of doubt.

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:51:41 am
What Should we Believe?
Where Roy Ald used interviews to track down incidents that seemed to indicate survival of death, Dr. Jacboson tried a more scientific approach using hypotheses that he tried to test, and Robert Monroe, like the mystics, used direct experience. But Michael Newton relies on hypnosis and the now faddish "treatment" of past-life regression. Which of these are valid? The evidence given under hypnosis is interesting, but how do you compare it to events with real witnesses? How do you weight the insights of a mystic? It appears the concept of the spiritual realm has gained more adherents and many are willing to believe the evidence of hypnosis. Certainly, we learn far more from the people who go back to the period before this life and tell us what the other realm is like. But is it believable?

Hypnosis is just the latest wrinkle in what people will accept as "evidence." I am reminded that a hundred years ago séances were popular and many people believed they communicated with the dead through mediums. Today, we have a show on TV -- Crossing Over, With John Edward on the Sci Fi Channel -- in which a modern medium nightly puts members of an audience in touch with people who have passed over (“passed” is the preferred word for “dead” on this show). Instead of using a darkened room with a crystal ball, it's done in a brightly-lit glitzy studio; maybe the TV cameras give these mediumistic performances the update they need to be acceptable. What we regard as acceptable evidence has changed over the years, but the search, as always, goes on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For more insights on life after death, read my review of Letters From the Other Side, a collection of letters received through automatic handwriting, written by a loving brother and sister to their still-living sister. Also read my review of The Stars Still Shine, the after-life journal of "Michael."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.theseekerbooks.com/articles/lifeafter.htm


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:51:59 am
Trent

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Sandra,

Thank you for ALLLLL that material you have posted under this thread and for the nice message you wrote to me. I haven't worked on this for awhile but will if you plan to help me pick it up. Talk to you again very soon.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:52:17 am
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 05-16-2005 03:08 AM                       
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You're welcome, Trent.

I will definitely be helping you with it since it's the subject that most interests me in my life, and of all the others here. Wrote back, hope to hear from you soon.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:52:57 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-21-2005 11:36 PM                       
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Just saw the movie, "White Noise," tonight on DVD. Pretty creepy.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:53:17 am
 
Metatron

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   posted 05-21-2005 11:44 PM                       
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I watched that movie last night Michelle... it was interesting and yes creepy... I liked it though

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Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. H.G. Wells

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:53:36 am
 
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:05 AM                       
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I saw it, too, I have to admit that it was a little slow for my tastes, but the EVP stuff was very interesting. I wonder how many people out there are actually doing that?

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:53:55 am
zaphod

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:06 AM                       
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EVP??
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:54:17 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:10 AM                       
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"EVP"

Electronic Voice Phenomenen.

I was actually a little weirded out by the movie, Metatron. I kept thinking that I was going to end up like the wife in the movie, or that Curt would end up that way and that we wouldn't be able to contact each other. It's so sad to lose the person you love.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:54:35 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:13 AM                       
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And Stacy, I didn't think that the movie was slow at all. I thought it was very creepy and well done.

Trent and Sandra have all this material here on contacting the dead...I wonder if I could reach my father in that way..?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:54:58 am
zaphod

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:15 AM                       
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Thanks Michelle

Haven't seen it yet..it's always checked out
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:55:40 am
Metatron

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It weirded me out a bit too... I have always wondered if when we died if we actually try to stay with the ones we love. I think of it a lot with my husband... When he hugs me, my head fits perfectly just below his shoulder on his chest ... I always tell him, if there is an eternity, I hope mine is in that spot. If one of us died young, I wonder if we would seek to find that spot from the other side. I know... I am weird  But I am 37, been married to him for 17 years, we have our fourth child on the way, and through all of life's ups and downs... I am still in love with him. My advice... if you love Curt that much, don't give up 

I'll stop rambling now

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Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. H.G. Wells

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:56:08 am
 
Morrison

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:26 AM                       
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Michelle, haven't you watched the movie? Contacting the dead is nothing to be fooling around with. One out of twelve of those contacts are supposed to be harmful.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:56:29 am
 
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:32 AM                       
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I don't plan to give up, Metatron. All this has invested my soul, and I couldn't go on if he was out of my life. He was all set to ask me to marry him this summer when things happened. Of course, I've gone on about it often enough here that I won't do that again now.

Morrison, yes, I know that those devices are harmful, but what can I say, sometimes I miss my father.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:56:52 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-22-2005 12:33 AM                       
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Rotten double post!
 :(

[ 07-06-2005, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Michelle Sandberg ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 08, 2008, 01:57:30 am
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-25-2005 12:01 AM                       
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Very creepy feeling I just had while reading this. In the movie, the dead communicate through white noise. What if they can communicate through computer, too? What if some of the people that write here are actually dead?

--------------------
"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:24:38 am
Absonite

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  posted 05-25-2005 07:23 AM                       
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What if some of the people that write here are actually dead?

Stacy,
I think you're on to something. I never realized that.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:25:35 am
 
Seekerofknowledge

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   posted 05-25-2005 01:56 PM                       
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Brains, braaaiinss, (shuffling forward with arms outstretched). Actually I could see the dead making post on this and other sites matbe that explains misters Pound&Noble nineteenth century attitudes, or maybe there just brain dead.   ;D ;D

[ 05-25-2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Seekerofknowledge ]

--------------------
"the truth cannot be told, only found"

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:26:03 am
 
Absonite

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  posted 05-25-2005 03:39 PM                       
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where are those 2 jokers anyway. ya don't thunk batsmile and robrig had wordz with um do ya?

[ 05-25-2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:27:01 am
 
Stacy Dohm

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You're being sarcastic, Absonite (I think  :( ), but a lot of us out here do believe in ghosties! I know you don't.


quote:
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Actually I could see the dead making post on this and other sites matbe that explains misters Pound&Noble nineteenth century attitudes, or maybe there just brain dead.
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I never thought of that, Seeker, that explains everything now...

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:27:51 am
 
Absonite

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  posted 05-25-2005 08:36 PM                       
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I do Stacy. seriously. I call them Midwayers, Primary and Secondary
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p077.htm
and lots of others. BUt, I was being sarcastic; but no need for the frown it was all in fun.

[ 05-25-2005, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:28:31 am
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-25-2005 08:39 PM                       
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Sure, I understand.  :)

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:30:10 am
 
Jennifer O'Dell

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What are ghosts anyway but a continuation of consciousness? I think, if you believe in a soul, you also have to believe that the dead can continue on. It would also make sense that some of them wouldn't be ready to leave this world.

Has anyone here ever seen a ghost, or had any other experiences with the dead?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:32:03 am
Norman Pounders

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quote:
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where are those 2 jokers anyway. ya don't thunk batsmile and robrig had wordz with um do ya?
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Not hardly, Absonite, they're our kind of people, good people.

It's nice to be misssed, though.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:32:56 am
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 05-26-2005 12:21 AM                       
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Hi Trent.   :)

Jennifer, actually, I have seen my father's ghost in the past. He sits in a chair in the house and just watches me, never says anything. I'm not scared when I see him, although I used to be startled when it first began to happen.

I think that the dead are all around us and yet, only certain people have the ability to notice them. Some people have that sensitivity, others don't.

[ 05-26-2005, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Sandra Taylor ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:33:28 am
 
Absonite

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  posted 05-26-2005 03:05 AM                       
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I want some of what she's smoking,
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:34:13 am
 
Norman Pounders

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quote:
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I want some of what she's smoking,
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Sandra, Absonite raises an interesting point. Why are so many of the women that come here seem to have psychological problems or are otherwise hysterical? Sandra, did you all meet in a mental ward or something?

[ 05-26-2005, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Norman Pounders ]

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:34:39 am
Seekerofknowledge

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What is that noise?

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"the truth cannot be told, only found"

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:35:18 am
 
Seekerofknowledge

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   posted 05-27-2005 02:45 PM                       
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There it is again, oh wait thats just the dogma barking again.  ;D

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"the truth cannot be told, only found"

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:35:47 am
 
Absonite

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  posted 05-27-2005 03:59 PM                       
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Sandra,
don't pay attention Norman, he can't help it.

Seriously though, would you tell us more about this first hand experience of yours. This is one of the most interesting thing I have seen in awhile since I think you are being truthful about it.
One thing I'm interested in is why you are not startled by this anymore. Anybody would be startled by such an experience I would think and if happened on a continuing basis they would be checking out their own sanity. Why aren't you?
How many times have you had the experience and what would happen if you took a picture? Can you put your hand through the image? Tell us what you will about it.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:36:13 am
rockessence

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   posted 05-27-2005 11:44 PM                       
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Jen,

RE: "What are ghosts anyway but a continuation of consciousness"

I believe it has been shown that they are residual energy that was left at death. Very incomplete, though, and really lacking conciousness, as we recognise "conciousness".

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:36:45 am
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 05-30-2005 10:39 PM                       
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quote:
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RE: "What are ghosts anyway but a continuation of consciousness"

I believe it has been shown that they are residual energy that was left at death. Very incomplete, though, and really lacking conciousness, as we recognise "conciousness".
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I believe that is a good way of putting it, Rockessence, however, it has to have some consciousness, else the dead would not be inclined to keep trying to contact us, which seems to be the whole point of this thread.

I think, as has been mentioned before, when someone dies, there's a brief period of time when their consciousness stays in this world before it passes on. For people who met their ends more violently, the period of time might last longer. That's just my own personal opinion, based on some of the things that I have read.

[ 05-31-2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Jennifer O'Dell ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:37:33 am
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 05-31-2005 12:56 AM                       
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Hi Trent,

I'll look for some new material to add to this later in the week.

Absonite,

I'll tell you all about my experiences with seeing my father. He died about a year ago so the grief I have towards him dying is still very fresh in my mind. The first time I saw him was only a couple of days after he died and it was very startling. He was sitting in this chair in my apartment and just staring at me. While he was alive, my father only came to my apartment once, but he was sitting in the same chair he'd been in while he came to visit. After being startled at first by his appearance, I actually wasn't that afraid. I know my father would never hurt me and I got the feeling that he only came because he cared about me so much and wanted to see how I was doing. I looked away, and when I looked back again, he was gone.

He actually has visited me two more times since then. Once, I awoke from an afternoon nap and saw him standing over me, and then he walked into the closet and disappeared. The other time, he was sitting in the chair again, just staring at me. I just said something like, "it's okay, Dad, you can go now," and I haven't seen him since. I've never gotten close enough to him to actually put my hand through him, but he doesn't look quite real when I see him. He's also a few years younger than he was at the time when he died.

Each time he appeared, I've never been afraid, and he seems to appear simply to comfort me. Maybe I am insane, but I am certain of what I saw. Even today, I can still feel his presence around me at times, when I'm troubled about something, even if I can no longer see him. I was very close with my father while he was alive, in case you couldn't tell.

My experiences, seeing my father are what has got me interested in pursuing the whole idea of life after death. I would like to learn more about how to communicate with him, and wish I had seized the opportunity at the time, if only to find out more of what the afterlife is like. He doesn't say anything, just stares, and I don't exactly know what he is trying to say, I can just sense it.

I'm not certain what would happen if I took a picture. I've seen ghost pictures before and usually they look like bad exposures. Most spirit photography seems to be faked. On the other hand, there are things like EVP and automatic writing that I tend to believe in a little more as methods of contacting the dead.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:38:02 am
 
Norman Pounders

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Sandra, allow me to be the first one to say so since it seems that everyone else is too sensitive towards the possibility of hurting your feelings. You are in dire need of a physician's attention if you are truly seeing these things. Please stop posting here and consult a psychiatrist. I have one all lined up for Dawn, perhaps you would like to see him as well.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:38:31 am
 
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 05-31-2005 10:29 PM                       
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Norman, I totally believe Sandra's story. If you have read anything about ghosts, this is how they tend to appear. Most ghosts are not threatening, we just have the impression they are from the movies.

There is one noticeable exception to that, the Bell Witch story from the 1800's. A very spooky poltergeist haunting that I think happened in Virginia.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:39:19 am
 
Absonite

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  posted 05-31-2005 10:38 PM                       
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Hi again Sandra,


quote:
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My experiences, seeing my father are what has got me interested in pursuing the whole idea of life after death. I would like to learn more about how to communicate with him, and wish I had seized the opportunity at the time, if only to find out more of what the afterlife is like. He doesn't say anything, just stares, and I don't exactly know what he is trying to say, I can just sense it.

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Sandra,
at this level the after life is no different than where you are now, at least not different in what matters. When you awake from your first "sleep" the only experience that you will have gained is the experience of awakening and knowing that you have continued. You will not be all wise and all knowing and able to "see" God or virtually anything else new. You will be right where you left off before death occurred. You will still have to learn how to get along with people, there will still be study, experience, music etc.
The act of prayer doesn't necesarily change God or Gods ways or much of anything else except that it changes the Pray-er. If you speak to or pray about your father, the inward growth and reflection and expansion of your continuing relationship with him will be enhanced no differently than if you were speaking face to face. Your father has not gone into some great void oif nothingness, he has continued his journey and the seperation from you is only temporary. Treat it as such and when you are reunited you will have a wealth more to share than if you had put him completely out of your mind simply because he was not in the same room with you. He will not be stagnant and neither should you.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:39:52 am
 
Norman Pounders

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Jennifer, if you believe Sandra's story, you are almost as in need of help as she is.

Absonite, you should have stuck with your original reaction to Sandra's "story." The initial reaction is usually the correct one.  :)

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:42:37 am
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 05-31-2005 11:06 PM                       
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Awww, don't you believe in ghosties, Normie??

And here, I thought you would after Jacob Marley came, chains rattling and all, to go and visit you on Christmas Eve! Humbug!   ;)
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:43:18 am
Seekerofknowledge

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   posted 05-31-2005 11:33 PM                       
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Bark, bark bark

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"the truth cannot be told, only found"

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:44:02 am
Trent

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   posted 06-01-2005 12:56 AM                       
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Pounders, lay off Sandra, she is not going to be one of your victims.

And she actually did see the things she said she did. You'd know this stuff was possible if you cared enough to investigate any of it. She's not crazy, you sure seem to be, though, the way you and your boy Calvin treat all the women around here.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:44:39 am
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 06-02-2005 10:55 PM                       
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Norman, I have never personally seen a ghost, but I believe in their existence and find everything I've seen here, at the very least, credible.

The reason why you're knocking her is because you're prejudiced against women, simple as that.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:45:10 am
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 06-03-2005 12:01 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Sandra Taylor:


I'll tell you all about my experiences with seeing my father. He died about a year ago so the grief I have towards him dying is still very fresh in my mind. The first time I saw him was only a couple of days after he died and it was very startling. He was sitting in this chair in my apartment and just staring at me. While he was alive, my father only came to my apartment once, but he was sitting in the same chair he'd been in while he came to visit. After being startled at first by his appearance, I actually wasn't that afraid. I know my father would never hurt me and I got the feeling that he only came because he cared about me so much and wanted to see how I was doing. I looked away, and when I looked back again, he was gone.

He actually has visited me two more times since then. Once, I awoke from an afternoon nap and saw him standing over me, and then he walked into the closet and disappeared. The other time, he was sitting in the chair again, just staring at me. I just said something like, "it's okay, Dad, you can go now," and I haven't seen him since. I've never gotten close enough to him to actually put my hand through him, but he doesn't look quite real when I see him. He's also a few years younger than he was at the time when he died.

Each time he appeared, I've never been afraid, and he seems to appear simply to comfort me. Maybe I am insane, but I am certain of what I saw. Even today, I can still feel his presence around me at times, when I'm troubled about something, even if I can no longer see him. I was very close with my father while he was alive, in case you couldn't tell.

My experiences, seeing my father are what has got me interested in pursuing the whole idea of life after death. I would like to learn more about how to communicate with him, and wish I had seized the opportunity at the time, if only to find out more of what the afterlife is like. He doesn't say anything, just stares, and I don't exactly know what he is trying to say, I can just sense it.

I'm not certain what would happen if I took a picture. I've seen ghost pictures before and usually they look like bad exposures. Most spirit photography seems to be faked. On the other hand, there are things like EVP and automatic writing that I tend to believe in a little more as methods of contacting the dead.
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I believe you Sandra cuz I had an experience with an 80 year old neighbor who was known as Grandma to all the kids in the neighborhood. Anyway I was in my teens when she died but earlier in life I got a glimpse of her bingo buddies. Anyway after the funeral and everyone being depressed, I had this dream that I came down the stairs during sunrise and saw her meet up with her bingo buddies right in our camp. I, in my dream, got halfway down the stairs, she looked at me and I her and her body language and eye language seem to convey that death wasn't to be feared but had a reunion feel to it and a sense of release from the Earthly plane. Given the suns position at that time it felt like it was around the 9 am hour. Of course being a teen I was like, I'm watching dead people congregate in my house, freaked out, woke up and headed downstairs to find the room empty but the sun in nearly the same position with the same warm feel of the room I had in my dream.

I told my parents about what happened and how I reassured her family that she was comfortable in the afterlife and they (my parents) told me never to bring it up to anyone in her family again.

To this day I've wondered why she met her friends in the after-life in my family's camp.

Okay Norm;  what we are dealing with here is now beyond the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dimesions, length, width, height, time. Thanks to Richard Hoagland and his lectures on Martian tetrahedral geometry we now know that events that start in the higher dimensions manifest themselves in the lower ones eventually. The spirit world operates much the same way it appears. This is what I mean by politics, religions are so worried about their base that they see all sciences as evil-detractors. 

Let's not forget it was in the South where they had to pass laws requiring that kids of religious zealots were to be taken to the hospitals for treatable illnesses. This was becuase the zealots had themselves convinced that man's surgical hands weren't to be trusted in place of the Divine's and that prayer was the only acceptable form of treatment. That was until a poor kid died from a treatable stomach illness and the doctor sued the family for neglect cuz it had gotten in the advance stages. So try to keep an open mind with emerging sciences okay. 
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Posts: 6625 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:45:56 am
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 06-03-2005 12:07 AM                       
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quote:
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[QB] Hi again Sandra,


My experiences, seeing my father are what has got me interested in pursuing the whole idea of life after death. I would like to learn more about how to communicate with him, and wish I had seized the opportunity at the time, if only to find out more of what the afterlife is like. He doesn't say anything, just stares, and I don't exactly know what he is trying to say, I can just sense it.

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Yeah it was the same thing in my dream/vision.  :o
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Posts: 6625 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:46:58 am
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 06-10-2005 01:55 AM                       
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Volitzer, we are reunited with our family members in the afterlife, and death is not something to be feared. It is a change in our existence, is all. Like an embryo becomes a baby and a baby becomes a young adult. Nothing that lives ever truly dies, it just changes it's energy and form.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:47:44 am
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 06-10-2005 02:02 AM                       
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quote:
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Your father has not gone into some great void oif nothingness, he has continued his journey and the seperation from you is only temporary. Treat it as such and when you are reunited you will have a wealth more to share than if you had put him completely out of your mind simply because he was not in the same room with you.
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Thank you for that very thoughtful reply, Absonite. I do treat my absence from my father as temporary and I know I will see him again.

I believe we live our lives over and over again, with the same people, and we keep doing it until we get it right. Only then do we pass on.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:48:14 am
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 06-10-2005 02:06 AM                       
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Norman, I don't know why you think I'm crazy for seeing my father's ghost. Even your Bible tells us that spirits exist. I wish you'd learn to temper your remarks so we can spend less time discussing them and more on the research.

Trent, thanks for sticking up for me.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:49:07 am
ignorant_ape
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Rate Member   posted 06-10-2005 03:01 AM                       
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Mr Pounders

see : keeping this as polite as posible

i dont want to assume your position on metaphysical matters , BUT you self label as " christian " so may i for a moment assume the following of you :

i ) you believe in a higher power [ specifically the god of the bible ]

ii ) you belive that you have a soul

iii ) you believe that " post motrem " your soul { ii } has a special destiny promised by your god { i }

the punch line is of course - how do you KNOW this , i acept that you believe it [ though naturally i disagree ]

before further denigrating peoples unfounded beliefs , please consider your own carefully

i will not call you a hypocrite yet [ on this ussue at least ]

i am being friendly today  :)

but you know i i am itching to  :D

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YRS - APE

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Posts: 730 | From: in your face :P | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:49:52 am
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 06-13-2005 08:02 PM                       
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quote:
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Mr Pounders

see : keeping this as polite as posible

i dont want to assume your position on metaphysical matters , BUT you self label as " christian " so may i for a moment assume the following of you :

i ) you believe in a higher power [ specifically the god of the bible ]

ii ) you belive that you have a soul

iii ) you believe that " post motrem " your soul { ii } has a special destiny promised by your god { i }

the punch line is of course - how do you KNOW this , i acept that you believe it [ though naturally i disagree ]

before further denigrating peoples unfounded beliefs , please consider your own carefully

i will not call you a hypocrite yet [ on this ussue at least ]

i am being friendly today

but you know i i am itching to
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Sorry to miss your post, Ignorant Ape, I'm attacked around here on an everyday basis so often it’s hard to keep track of them all and put each of you back in your place.

I know these things because of one simple thing, faith perhaps you've heard of it. No, of course not, atheists like yourself only seem to scoff at things you can’t see.

In regards to how my faith has anything to do with Sandra and her predilection towards seeing "spirits," well, I don't entirely discount the idea that she might have seen them. However, she seems to have only seen her father in times of stress so clearly she was simply hysterical.  :)

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:50:20 am
 
Zodiac

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   posted 07-06-2005 06:05 AM                       
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You'll all excuse me for drawing this one out of the mothballs once again, but I think we could use a little more research into our communication with the dead!

Anyone have any experiences they would like to share, similar to Sandra's?

And Sandra, I believe your story, too, by the way.
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:51:09 am
 
Mish

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  posted 07-06-2005 07:23 AM                       
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I just ran across this thread and have been discussing hauntings with Brig elsewhere...but with a lot less tormenting! Round up the wolves, I'm gunna tell you guys a whopper...

Here's a brief sum up of my story. (You can read more on the haunting thread too).

I have personally seen 5 sightings of what many would consider 'ghosts'. One dog, one cat, and three different run-ins with people. This all happened in the same house called Spring Cottage (a 400 year old cottage I lived in in England as a teen). I had never before, or since, seen anything like what I saw at there, and this is the main reason I persued the sciences throughout my life... to try to explain what I saw in this house. Ghosts have been my 'hobby' now for years. It is why I joined this forum.

As a result of all the strange happenings at Spring Cottage my brother made a ouija board. It worked very quickly and gave us a lot of broken information that many people, including children, had died there all about the same time. I wanted to believe at the time that it WAS indeed my brain moving the planchette across the ouija board, and creating the 'ghosts' I kept seeing because at the time I didn't believe in any afterlife or religion for that matter.

Fast forward 20+ years, and many books later I decided to research the history of Spring Cottage, as you can do this without any owner permission. Turns out that Spring Cottage sits on a large, clean well of water and so it was used as a local hospital during the Black Plague (summer of 1695 I believe..) and a lot of people died there at once - including children.

The ouija board was correct.(Insert creepy music here :-) I saw five 'ghosts' at Spring Cottage among many other strange occurences (stereos going that weren't plugged in, noises of children playing ball in the hallways at 2am, etc, etc)and since I have not had another experience like this yet in my life I cannot believe that it is something 'in my head'. I think the HOUSE was haunted, and not me, so I have been investigating the phenomenon of 'ghosts'and hauntings ever since.


Okay. Let the ridicule begin! (No worries... After 20+ years I am used to people telling me that they can't possible believe this. I certainly understand as I would have NEVER believed it had it not happened directly to me.)

Better go - I can feel Norm and Absonite just waiting to pounce.... heh heh heh
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:52:03 am
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-07-2005 01:29 AM                       
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Welcome, Mish, it is nice to have you aboard, another person with the same interests we all share. Don't worry about ridicule from others, Norman may be a bit abrasive, but I believe that Absonite tries to understand people. When you say you've been investigating the phenomenon of ghosts and hauntings, do you mean actual field investigation?

You might have read earlier in this post that I have seen my father's ghost as well. The experience wasn't menacing, though, not like yours seems to have been. I got a comforting feeling out of seeing him, I think.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:54:17 am
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-07-2005 01:31 AM                       
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And thank you for your belief in me, Zodiac, I have been meaning to work in this again for awhile now, but until lately, haven't had much time.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:55:26 am
Mish

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  posted 07-07-2005 08:04 AM                       
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Sandra, Yes I do a bit of field investigating, but not much these days as I am the full time mom of 2 little ones. I go to (public, so far) places reputed to be haunted, run video, take photos, and record in case of EVP. I've gotten a few interesting photos, but not much else. My next place to investigate is going to be the LittleBigHorn Battlefield (where Custer's last stand was). Apparently that place is crawling with images and sounds of the past.

I did read about your experience seeing your father and though I guess I must have given a 'menacing' impression of my 'ghosts', it wasn't that way at all. It was VERY much how you described - I felt calmed and unafraid of them somehow (after the initial shock of seeing them wore off) and was very distressed to learn we were moving as I didn't want to leave my 'ghosts' behind. They comforted me somehow and I missed them when we moved a few towns away and they didn't follow. I even asked them to follow, in case that would work, and it didn't.

Oh, I also always got the sense they wanted to tell me something too, like your dad, but couldn't. I could sense them hanging around me a lot in that house even when I couldn't see them. A lot of what goes on when you see ghosts is in your 'gut', I've learned, and not something you can document. That's why it's hard for scientists to take this stuff seriously. So much of it isn't about data and numbers you can observe.
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:57:31 am
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-07-2005 11:17 PM                       
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Mish, I think that, as a rule, ghosts tend to haunt places more than they do people, and yet, my father was definitely "haunting" me, I guess would be the term. When you saw your ghosts, were they visible for a long time? My father was actually there for several moments, just looking at me. When I saw him, he didn't seem quite real, and yet, he lingered in the room for many long moments and I was certain that I saw him there. When I turned away and looked back again, he was gone.

I'm impressed that you've done so much field work into this. I've done a little, but had a creepy experience once while doing it alone once and so I've tapered off on it a bit. In the fall, I'm going to resume it with my boyfriend, because the two of us share similar interests. I've found it's almost impossible to photograph a ghost. Even the recordings don't turn out that well, a lot of disortions that weren't part of the original sounds are on the tapes.

I'm envious about your trip to Little Bighorn. A lot of old battlefields tend to have ghosts on them.
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http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000215;p=5


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:58:12 am
 
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 07-08-2005 04:42 AM                       
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Sorry guys, I did`n see this tread on Communicating with the Dead and am very interested since my dad jut passed on to.

My question is how do we really know that ghosts are not just a figuration of the mind? When my kids were little, they only went to one funeral of their uncle`s. After that everytime they went in the basement (no where else in the house.) They come up yelling they seen his ghost.There were two other uncle`s that died just before that and they didn`t see theirs.
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Posts: 7892 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 02:59:13 am
shedthefear

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  posted 07-08-2005 09:45 AM                       
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quote:
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 My next place to investigate is going to be the LittleBigHorn Battlefield (where Custer's last stand was).
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Mish – I would be extremely interested in your results, I have been to a few different Civil war battle fields around the U.S. and in my humble opinion I believe there are ghosts/spirits that still linger in those places. Although I don’t have irrefutable proof….. 


quote:
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 I go to (public, so far) places reputed to be haunted, run video, take photos, and record in case of EVP.
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I am very interested in your findings. Have you been successful in capturing anything substantial? !? (Yes, that is excitment you are reading!)  :)

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(¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.-STF-.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯)

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Posts: 136 | From: Oregon | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 03:00:34 am
Mish

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  posted 07-11-2005 07:42 AM                       
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Shred - Yeah, I'm excited to go there too. Apparently the place is crawling with the ghosts of the soldiers and many of the indians who fought them as well. However,as a full time mom, I do have the impressionable minds of 2 little kids to work around. I've tried to explain that ghosts are not like in Scooby Doo (certainly not old Mr. Withers dressed up as a goul!)but the thought still scares them, so I must find a way to research around my kids at the moment, and haven't pulled it off at Little Big Horn -YET.

Plus, most haunting activity and noise happens in the middle of the night (I've always wondered why this is. Any suggestions?)and Little Big Horn closes at dusk. Hmmm. Either I will record as much as possible while in there at dusk (maybe hide my recorder in a field overnight), or comando in there during the night illegally.

I am a bit nervous of the second option as, besides being illegal, my hubby would have to stay back with the kids and apparently people who have been on the battlefield late at night have been practically terrorized by the loud sounds of indians on horseback screaming right up behind them. Most unnerving if one was alone I bet!! But many times my fear is overridden by a really unhealthy amount of curiosity - so stay tuned!Ha!
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 03:01:01 am
 
shedthefear

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 Little Big Horn closes at dusk. Hmmm. Either I will record as much as possible while in there at dusk (maybe hide my recorder in a field overnight), or comando in there during the night illegally
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Hey Mish – I suggest interviewing the park staff, with the level of ghost activity there you are bound to find someone who has had an encounter. Most people are willing to share their stories. During your interview be blunt and ask if you can have access to the park after hours to do some field research.

When it comes to explaining things to kids, honesty is the best policy. Just don’t give them more then they can handle. Get them involved, and include them in your research. (when you say “little ones” I am assuming under 10?)

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(¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.-STF-.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯)

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 03:01:24 am
 
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  posted 07-13-2005 06:37 AM                       
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My kids are about 5 and 3.

Your idea about interviewing park staff is a good one. Maybe someone will have sympathy for my crazy hobby and let me in the park past dark. This isn't probably going to happen anytime soon though as we just TRIED to take the kids to the beach yesterday (me and hubby are jetskiers)and it was a fiasco. It wore out my 'travelin' urges for a while I'm afraid and LBHorn is a couple hours away. I'll make sure and tell you guys when I do manage to go though.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 18, 2008, 03:02:47 am
Sandra Taylor

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The Mechanics of Spiritualism

Photographing the Spirits | 'Materializing' Methods | The Regurgitation Theory | The 'Scientific American' Inquiry | Slate-writing 'Miracles' | Apports and Psychic Lights | Medium or the Rue Christine | Mediums' Confessions | The Beare Sensation | 'Gambols with the Ghosts' | Cheap Miracles | 'Convincing' Spooks | The Only Remedy

- Harry Price -

THE HISTORY of spiritualism is a history of fraud. From the days of Elizabeth Parsons and the Fox girls down to the latest newspaper 'exposure,' it is the same distressing story. It will be noticed that the various prosecutions, 'confessions,' and dark-séance grabbings invariably concern physical mediums - seldom mental ones. If a mental medium (e.g. a clairvoyante) tells you that she 'sees' the spirit of your grandmother attired in a green dress with red spots, you cannot contradict her. But if this same medium professes to be able to materialize your grandmother, you can so arrange conditions that fraud would be impossible. Although it is very difficult to 'expose' a mental medium, one can sometimes check her séance utterances, and prove if veridical or not; or if performing publicly, it can be ascertained if confederates are used.

Of course, some mediums are alternately fraudulent and genuine, and these people are difficult to test. Eusapia Palladino is the classic example. She warned observers that she would cheat if permitted to do so, and cheat she did. Her tricks were usually childish: long hairs attached to small objects in order to produce 'telekinetic movements'; the gradual substitution of one hand for two when being controlled by sitters; the production of 'phenomena' with a foot which had been surreptitiously removed from its shoe, and so on. Some of her tricks were so subtle that at the Cambridge tests in 1895 J. N. Maskelyne was called in to detect them. But with all her deceptions, Eusapia was often genuine and her tricks were of some psychological interest.

Even Florrie Cook, the beloved medium of Sir William Crookes, was finally caught pirouetting round the room in a white garment by Mr. W. VoIckman, who, at a séance on December 9, 1873, seized the spirit 'Katie King' and found it was Florrie.(1) She was again exposed on January 9, 1880, by Sir George Sitwell, who also seized the 'spirit,' and found Florrie masquerading in her underclothes. More recently, in 1921, Miss Ada M. Bessinet, the American voice and physical medium, was investigated in London. Her spurious phenomena were alleged to have been produced 'subconsciously.'(2) Her 'spirit lights,' direct voice, and the 'paranormal' lashing of her body to the séance chair by 'spirits,' did not impress Professor J. H. Hyslop, who tested her in 1909 and 1910.(3) He concluded that the medium's performance was fraudulent, to the extent that it was done in a state of dissociation or hysteria, for which she was not consciously responsible. One has to be a very experienced investigator to be able to discriminate between true and false manifestations. Some people can never tell the difference and that is why the 'Margery' thumb-print controversy(4) is still with us. In the same way, many people believe that the freeing of Rudi Schneider's arm(5) was an unconscious 'fraud,' and not a deliberate act.

(1) See The Medium and Daybreak, January 23, 1874.
(2) See Psychic Science, London, Vol. 1, Part 1, 1922.
(3) Proc., Am. SPR, Vol. V, New York, 1911
(4) See page 114, ante.
(5) See page 107, ante.

This question of 'subconscious fraud' is as perplexing as it is disturbing. Many observers declare that they do not know what is, or is not, psychic fraud. A medium may be normally honest, but subliminally fraudulent, and it is sometimes difficult to be certain that the psychic is cheating: the subconscious 'fraud' may be so like the conscious variety that we may be unable to tell the difference, though the fact remains that at least 99 per cent of all alleged psychic happenings are fraudulent. Of course, if there is evidence of previous preparation for fraud, the case is simplified. And in dealing with 'obvious charlatans,' one cannot always be certain. When Mesmer was hounded from country to country as an impostor and adventurer, his critics little realized that his 'animal magnetism' would be developed by medical science into the curative hypnotism of to-day. And Dr. Albert Abrams, whose 'magic box' was hailed as the 'greatest medical hoax in history' was acclaimed by high British medical authorities as the discoverer of a real phenomenon(6). The 'fraud' of to-day can easily be the orthodox science of to-morrow.

(6) See A Preliminary Communication Concerning the 'Electronic Reactions' of Abrams, by Sir Thomas Horder, London, 1925.

During the Meurig Morris action against the Daily Mail, Sir Oliver Lodge in the witness-box said, according to The Times report(7): 'I hear about fraudulent mediums, but I have not come across them.' Sir Oliver must have forgotten his séance in 1931 with Mrs. Duncan, who was thoroughly exposed that same year.

(7) April 13, 1932.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Volitzer on January 18, 2008, 11:25:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vIIsu0Wqmk

 ;)



Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:01:20 pm
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Photographing the Spirits [top]

Sir Oliver was also unfortunate with his sittings with William Hope (1863-1933), the fraudulent spirit photographer. I caught this man surreptitiously changing my sensitized plates in 1922(8) and he was later again thoroughly exposed(9) by Mr. Fred Barlow. After my exposure of Hope, Sir Oliver wrote me:(10) 'I don't see how your proofs of Hope's duplicity could be more complete.' And yet we find, in J. Arthur Hill's Letters from Sir Oliver Lodge(11), a reference to Hope in a letter to Hill, dated July 29, 1929, nearly seven years after he wrote to me. Sir Oliver says: 'The probability to my mind is strongly in favour of simplicity and honesty, now that he has been going on so long.' Which is a curious argument.

(8) Journal, SPR, May, 1922.
(9) Proc., SPR, Part 129, 1933; and Journal, SPR, July, 1933,
(10) April 18, 1922.
(11) London, 1932, p. 231.

The annals of psychical research are full of exposures of 'spirit' photographers. The first, William H. Mumler, of Boston (Mass.), was prosecuted in 1868(12). He was caught out because it was discovered that his photographs of 'spirits' were, in fact, those of persons who were alive. One such 'spirit' testified against him in court. Edouard Buguet, a French imitator, was imprisoned in Paris in 1876(13) for spirit photograph frauds. He made a full confession. He began using living models for his 'extras.' When that became too dangerous, he constructed a lay figure which he could dress up to suit the 'spirit' which he knew his client so longed to see. Flammarion also detected Buguet in fraud.

(12) The Mumler 'Spirit' Photograph Case, New York, 1869.
(13) Revue Spirite, Paris, Nos. 1-12.

Richard Boursnell (1832-1909), an English photographic medium, was caught cheating by Usborne Moore(14). He used the old double exposure and 'substituting the plate' method. George H. Moss, a chauffeur, became a 'spirit photographer,' and once photographed the 'spirit' of my 'mother.' Unfortunately for Moss, Hope had also just recently photographed my 'mother,' too, and there was not the slightest resemblance between the two ladies. Moss was finally caught by Fred Barlow, who discovered that Moss's plates were filed at one end so that, in the dark, he could feel which way up the 'extras' were to be placed. Inverted spirit heads would, of course, look most inartistic in a photograph! Moss finally signed a full confession(15) that his 'spirits,' copied from old illustrated journals and the 'family album,' were produced by normal means.

(14) Glimpses of the Next State, London, 1911.
(15) Psychic Science, Vol. IV, PP. 229-33, London, 1925.



Plate V. Charles Eldred's mechanical chair (with removable back), mask, spirit drapery, wigs, and other 'properties', 1906.

Among the most picturesque of photographic mediums is Mrs. Ada Emma Deane, a former charwoman, whose 'spirit heads,' photographed floating round the Cenotaph on Armistice Day, were declared by the Daily Sketch(16) to be portraits of living footballers, whose pictures had appeared in that paper. After this exposure, no more was heard of the Cenotaph spirits. The London 'Magic Circle' had previously exposed her in 1922(17). Contemporary with Mrs. Deane are two Scotch youths, Craig and George Falconer. One of their 'spirit heads' was found to be identical with Albert Moore's famous study 'Blossoms' in the Tate Gallery. Later, they went on a professional tour to South Africa, were caught by the police (1931), were convicted for producing fraudulent spirit photographs, and each was fined £150 and costs. They appealed and lost, the judge remarking that the brothers 'were encouraged in their fraud by the credulous fools who supported them., Apparently they are still finding 'clients' as I noticed their advertisement in The Greater World as recently as March 26, 1938. It stated that they have 'produced astounding evidence of survival to all investigators;' excepting, of course, the Johannesburg police(18). This was almost the end of the photographic mediums. But in 1932 John Myers appeared, and what happened to him can be read in the contemporary psychic and lay Press(19). The principal American spirit photographer, William M. Keeler, was exposed(20) by the late Dr. Walter F. Prince(21). I will not detail the methods used, as there is a monotony in the modus operandi of producing these 'extras': double exposure; 'switching' the plates or dark slides (or even the camera); the use of lay figures, etc. But there would be no spirit photographs if there were no foolish sitters to pay their guineas for them.

(16) Daily Sketch, London, November 13-22, 1924.
(17) Report of the Occult Committee, London, May, 1922.
(18) For full reports of the trial and conviction of the Falconer brothers, see the complete files of the South African journals in the Univ. of London Library ('Harry Price Library'). See also Light, October 2, 1931.
(19) Sunday Dispatch, October 16, 23, 30, 1932. 'A Charge of Fraud: Accusations against Mr. John Myers,' by J. B. McIndoe, in the Two Worlds, September 6, 1935; also 'Myers Exposed Again?' by Roy Brandon, in the Two Worlds, October it, 1935.
(20) 'Supplementary Report on, the Keeler-Lee Photographs,' Proc., Am. SPR, Vol. XIII, New York, 1919, PP. 529-87.
(21) For the result of the Daily Mail inquiry into spirit photography, see The Times, June 22, 1909.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:01:41 pm
Sandra Taylor

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'Materializing' Methods'


Plate VI. Mrs. J. B. Mellon with her spirit guide 'Geordie', photographed at séance, 1894.

Reports on 'materializing' mediums during the last fifty years in all parts of the world are riddled with exposures of fraud. I will mention a few of those cases which are educational as well as entertaining. The classic example is that of Charles Eldred, who travelled from séance to séance, taking with him his 'highly magnetized' arm-chair in which the various spirit entities materialized. It seems incredible that a medium under test should be allowed to use his own properties, and even his spiritualist dupes at last became suspicious of the number and variety of 'phantoms' which Eldred produced. At a séance in London in 1906 both he and his chair were seized by Dr. Abraham Wallace. It was discovered that the back of the chair was really a box, with lock and key. In the box were found a collapsible dummy, yards of cheese cloth and scent (for 'spirit perfumes'), reaching rods, a musical box (for 'spirit music'), wigs and beards, etc. (See Plate V.)(22)

(22) See 'Exposure of Mr. Eldred,' Journal, SPR, Vol. XII, p. 242-52.

Amongst other exposures must be mentioned that of Harry Bastian whose 'materializations' in Vienna on February 11, 1884, were proved to be fraudulent(23). Frederick Fisher Craddock was caught at Manchester in 1879. His spirit guide 'Rosetta' was found to be Craddock masquerading in his shirt. Colonel Mark Mayhew also records(24) how another spirit, 'Abdullah,' was seized and found to be the medium(25) Madame d'Esperance was seized in Newcastle in 188o, masquerading in her underclothes as her spirit control 'Yolande.' A similar incident occurred at Helsingfors in 1893. Mrs. J. B. Mellon (Annie Fairlamb) was exposed in Sydney by Thomas Shekleton Henry(26), a young architect. Her 'guides,' 'Cissie' and 'Geordie,' were impersonated by the masked medium kneeling or standing. (See Plate VI.) 'Dr.' Monck, an ex-Baptist minister, was sentenced to three months' imprisonment in 1876 for fake materializations at Huddersfield. He had a trunk full of 'properties.' Miss C. E. Wood was caught cheating at Peterborough in 1882. She was found on her knees, semi-****, covered with muslin and impersonating an Indian spirit 'control' named 'Pocka.' In the same way Serjeant Cox exposed Miss Mary Showers in 1894. The spirit 'Florence' had her head-dress knocked off in the scrimmage - thus revealing the medium. Charles Williams (who 'worked' with Frank Herne, another medium) was caught out at Paris in 1874 and again at Amsterdam in 1879. When seized, the usual beards, cheese cloth, phosphorized oil, etc., were found on him. Einer Nielsen, the Danish medium, was accused of fraud at Oslo in 1922(27), and again in 1932(28). I sat with Nielsen in Copenhagen, with unsatisfactory results. William Eglinton, materializing medium, was exposed in London by Archdeacon Colley and again in Munich. Dr. Hodgson also accused him of conspiring with H. P. Blavatsky in producing Theosophical 'miracles'(29).

(23) Einblicke in den Spiritismus, by Erzherzog Johann [linz], 1884.
(24) Light, March 24 and 31, 1906.
(25) See 'Exposures of Mr. Craddock,' Journal, SPR, Vol. XII, pp. 266-8, 274-7. See Daily Express for May 16, 17, and June 21, 1906, for conviction of Craddock who was fined £10 at Edgware Police Court for fraudulent mediumship.
(26) Spookland, by T. Shekleton Henry, Sydney [1894].
(27) See Norsk Tidsskrift for Psykisk Forskning, Oslo, for 1922, Parts 2 and 3.
(28) See Copenhagen Press for April, 1932.
(29) Proc., SPR, Vol. Ill, 1885, p. 254.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:02:06 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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The Regurgitation Theory

One of the most amazing exposures of 'materializing' methods was that of Mrs. Helen Duncan. In 1931 she sat at the National Laboratory of Psychical Research. She gave us five séances, which cost us £50. Among the observers were Mrs. A. Peel Goldney, Professor J. C. Flugel, Professor W. McDougall, Dr. William Brown, Professor D. F. Fraser-Harris, etc. Although this woman was medically examined and enclosed in our own one-piece garment, she was able to secrete yards of cheese cloth with which she impersonated 'Albert,' 'Peggy,' and other 'spirits.' (See Plate 1.) I took a large number of photographs of the cheese-cloth phantoms and all show the warp and weft of the material, selvedge, creases and even dirt marks. Other things which appeared in the photographs were rubber gloves, safety-pins, and cut-out heads from magazine covers. The question arose 'How did she secrete these "properties"?' The only part of her anatomy which the doctors could not explore was her stomach, and we came to the conclusion - which I am certain is the correct one - that she possesses an aesophageal diverticulum or secondary stomach, into which she swallowed the cheese cloth, etc., to be regurgitated at leisure. Such cases are well known(30). We published a long illustrated report(31) on this woman. After it was issued, her former maid, Miss Mary McGinlay, came to us and, before a Commissioner for Oaths, supported our theory concerning regurgitation(32). Mrs. Duncan was later (May 11, 1933) convicted(33) at Edinburgh for fraudulent mediumship (her undervest was the 'spirit') and fined £10 or a month's imprisonment. After the conviction the Spiritualists' National Union gave her a vote of confidence (July 1, 1933) and her 'diploma' was renewed(34). It may seem strange that a stomach should be put to such uses, but 'ectoplasm' (i.e. cotton wool, cheese cloth, etc.) and small 'apports' have been found secreted in rectum, ****, and prepuce of various mediums.

(30) See 'Diagnosis and Surgical Treatment of Esophageal Diverticula. Report Of Eight Cases,' by Charles H. Mayo, in Annals of Surgery, June, 1910.
(31) 'Regurgitation and the Duncan Mediumship,' by Harry Price. Bulletin I, Nat. Lab. Psychical Research, London, 1931.
(32) Her 'Declaration' was published as an Appendix to the Duncan Report.
(33) Daily Telegraph, May 12, 1933, and Scots papers of same date.
(34) Two Worlds, Manchester, July 14, 1933.

Another recent conviction of a materializing medium was the case of Clive Holmes, who was charged at Greenwich Police Court on June 16, 1937, with obtaining four shillings (the charge made for a séance) by false pretences. A Mrs. V. B. Evens and her son attended one of Holmes's séances at which the spirit 'White Moose' appeared. Mr. Evens flashed his torch on the 'spirit,' which was alleged to be none other than Holmes himself, dressed in white muslin. After several adjournments the magistrate, Mr. L. R. Dunne (July 21, 1937), sentenced Holmes to four months in the second division. The medium appealed, and lost(36). The latest 'materializing' exposure is that of Mrs. Elizabeth Grover, who, when the light was switched on, was 'discovered in her underclothes draped with wet butter muslin, with a calico bandage round her head'(37). She signed a confession to the effect that she 'fraudulently produced the materialized form of "Albert Stewart" and others'(38). She was making 'something like £20 per week'(39).

(36) See The Times and Daily Mail for June 17 and July 22, 1937.
(37) Two Worlds, August 12, 1938.
(38) Ibid., August 12, 1938.
(39) Ibid., August 26, 1938, p. 536.

America has produced many fakers and amongst the most amusing exposures must be mentioned that of Mr. and Mrs. Thompson, who 'materialized' the 'mother' of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Sir Arthur was present and, according to the article(40), embraced his 'mother.' Leonard J. Hartman, the pastor of a spiritualist church, wrote the report. A few days after the Doyle séance, the Thompsons were seized at another sitting by two police officers. The usual masks, wigs, chiffon, musical box and scent-spray were found on them. They were convicted and fined.

(40) 'How the Mediums "Brought Back" Sir Conan Doyle's Dead Mother,' New York Sunday American, September 3, 192

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:02:34 pm
Sandra Taylor

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The 'Scientific American' Inquiry

In 1922 the Scientific American launched an inquiry into psychic matters, based largely on my exposure of Hope. Among those tested was George Valiantine, well-known voice and physical medium, who entered for the Scientific American prize of $2,500, to be awarded to any medium producing a physical phenomenon under test conditions. Valiantine was charged with fraud. At the final sitting, in complete darkness, on May 26, 1923, special apparatus was installed. This was an electrical circuit which included the chair on which the medium sat. When the medium rose from his scet, a light went out in an adjoining room. Dictaphone notes were taken of all that occurred. It was found that Valiantine left his chair fifteen times (when he should have been in it), sometimes for as long as eighteen seconds, and that these periods corresponded with those when the sitters were touched by the 'spirits'(41). Other mediums who were tested included the Rev. Josie K. Stewart, a woman who produced 'supernormal' writing on cards; Mrs. Thompson, materializing medium; and Nino Pecoraro(42). They were all exposed. The reader has already learnt how 'Margery' fared in this investigation.

(41) See issues of the Scientific American, New York, from October, 1922 to January, 1923; and 'Untold Facts Behind Scientific American's Psychic Probe!' by Austin C. Lescarboura in True Mystic Science, Minneapolis, November, 1938. See also Daily Express, London, May 28,1923 (article, 'Spirits with a Punch').
(42) See The Medium who Admits he is a Fake, by jack Alexander, St. Louis, U.S.A., 1931.

Valiantine was in London in 1925 and I had one séance with him. He was then producing voice phenomena. At this particular séance, held at the house of Mr. Dennis Bradley, the spirit of Luigi Arditi (the composer) was alleged to manifest. I took down all that 'Arditi' said and afterwards discovered that every sentence was identical with those I found in Bradshaw's Complete Anglo-Italian Phrase Book and Jaschke's English-Italian Dictionary. Not a comma had been altered(43). Dennis Bradley had many sittings with Valiantine, but in 1931, in some experiments for fingerprint impressions (a la Margery) Bradley found that the thumb-print of the spirit 'Conan Doyle' coincided with Valiantine's right big toe, and a print from the spirit thumb of Lord Dewar exactly matched that of the medium's left big toe. An indelible dye had been painted on the substance to be impressed, and this same dye was found on the medium's feet and elbow(44).

(43) The detailed analysis of this case can be found in Price's Leaves From a Psychist's Case-Book, pp. 307-15.
(44) Bradley tells the whole story in ... And After (London, 1931). See also 'Tricks of a Famous Medium Exposed: Finger-Prints of the Dead Faked,' in the Daily Express, September 21, 1931. The complete history of Valiantine's activities has been summed up (1932) by Mrs. W. H. Salter: 'The History of George Valiantine,' Proc., SPR, Vol. XL, pp. 389-410.

Another voice medium whom I detected was Frederick Tansley Munnings, an ex-burglar. I had invented a piece of testing apparatus which I called the Voice Control Recorder. Munnings tried hard to beat the machine, but failed. We heard the voices of 'Julius Caesar,' 'Dan Leno,' 'Crippen' and 'Henry VIII,' but the machine proved that it was Munnings speaking. He finally sold his 'confessions' to a Sunday paper(45).

(45) 'My Confessions: How I Produced "Spirit Voices",' in the People, February 5 to May 13, 1928. See also 'The Case of Mr. Moss and Mr. Munnings', Journal, SPR, Vol. XXIII, pp. 71-5.

Voice mediums under test have usually done badly. Mrs. Susannah Harris, an American, was investigated in Oslo in 1920, when twenty-five sittings were held. The final report was, to put it mildly, very uncomplimentary(46). This account of unsatisfactory voice mediums could be extended indefinitely. Another unsatisfactory séance was that held at 61, North Gate Mansions, Regent's Park, on May 27, 1938, with Mr. Colin Evans. This medium claims that, in complete darkness, he is 'levitated.' Mrs. A. Peel Goldney, Mrs. Henry Richards and others were convinced that at this particular test no levitation took place and the cheque paid to the medium was returned to the sitters(47).

(46) See Light, May 1, 1920.
(47) A photograph of an alleged psychic levitation of this medium was published in the Daily Mirror, June 13, 1938. See also Photography for January, 1939. How photographs can be obtained of a man assumed to be levitating, but in reality jumping, is graphically recorded (with illustrations) in Proc., SPR, Vol. XLV, Part 158, pp. 196-8.


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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:03:01 pm
Sandra Taylor

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Slate-writing 'Miracles'



Meers. Slade and Lancaster, In a Scene from the New Farce, "The Happy Medium; or No Spirits should be above Proof."



Plate VII. Carton from Entr'acte and Limelight of Henry Slade, the medium, and Professor Ray Lankester, October 1876. Published after the prosecution of Slade.

For some reason I have been unable to fathom, British slate-writing mediums are, and have been, almost nonexistent. This particular 'spirit' technique is peculiarly American, and every exponent who consented to be tested scientifically has come to grief.

The great spirit slate-writer was 'Dr.' Henry Slade, who visited London in 1876 and impressed a number of spiritualists and others. Professor Ray Lankester secured a sitting with him, saw how the trick was done, and published his exposure in The Times(48). He then charged Slade with having swindled him. (See Plate VII.) The case was heard at Bow Street Police Court on October 1, 1876, and the medium was sentenced to three months' hard labour. Owing to some legal flaw in the indictment, the sentence was quashed and before Ray Lankester could issue a fresh summons, Slade fled to the Continent(49.) He was often exposed(50), and his tricks have been published in full by John W. Truesdell(51). These tricks include the substitution of slates already written on for blank ones examined by the sitter; the writing on one side of a slate held flat to the underside of a table by the two thumbs of the medium (the remaining eight fingers being above the table), who has cemented a tiny piece of slate-pencil or chalk to the nail of one thumb, with which he can easily write the 'spirit message'; the surreptitious addition, to a pile of examined slates, of an unexamined one bearing a 'message,' and so on. Another notorious slate-writing medium was P. L. O. A. Keeler, who was exposed by Dr. W. F. Prince in a brilliant monograph(52). Another means of producing spontaneous writing on slates is by means of chemicals. When first written, the words are quite invisible, and the slate can be freely examined. In a few minutes the writing appears and the sitter is duly impressed. Finally, there are mechanical slates. I have a pair, which I bought for £8 from an American medium, which are marvels of mechanism. The slates can be handled by the victim, or even left in his possession: he would never discover the secret. Yet, at will, the four blank sides can be filled with any 'spirit' writing desired, in various colours, even when being held by the sitter. The secret is that the centres of the slates are in duplicate. Pressure on a certain spot of the frame allows one flap to fall, instantly and silently, into the frame of the other slate, where it is automatically locked. Both inside surfaces of the slates are then covered with writing. The slates can then be turned over and the operation repeated, making four sides of writing. Any reader sufficiently interested in slate-writing tricks should read the exhaustive work(53) by 'Chung Ling Soo' (i.e. William Ellsworth Robinson).

(48) September 16, 1876.
(49) Where he impressed J. C. F. Zöllner, the astronomer. See his Transcendental Physics, London, 1880.
(50) See Boston Herald, February 2, 1886.
(51) The Bottom Facts Concerning the Science of Spiritualism, New York, 1883.
(52) Proc., Am. SPR, New York, Vol. XV, pp, 315-592.
(53) Spirit Slate Writing and Kindred Phenomena, New York and London, 1899.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:03:26 pm
Sandra Taylor

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Apports and Psychic Lights

Very few serious investigators of to-day accept 'apports' (i.e. the spontaneous appearance at a séance of solid objects) but there have been some famous apport mediums. The Australian, Charles Bailey, specialized in such things as live animals, scarabs, and exotic antiques. He was often exposed. At Grenoble on February 20, 1910, two live birds 'materialized' at a séance. But the birds were recognized by the local dealer who supplied them to the medium. There was another scandal in Sydney in 1914(54). I have already mentioned in Chapter I the 'apports' of Lajos Pap(55), Anna Rothe, Heinrich MeIzer, and Hilda Lewis(56). All these mediums were exposed.

(54) For accounts of Bailey's work in England, see Journal, SPR, Vol. XII PP. 77-88, 109-18; and Vol. XV, pp. 194-208.
(55) See page 30; see also 'I Expose the Shams of Spiritualism,' by Nandor Fodor, in the Leader, London, October 15, 1938, pp. 28-30.
(56) Ibid., pp. 29-30.

Another woman medium who fared badly was Mrs. Baylis. She was tested by Dennis Bradley, who published a scathing report(57) concerning her. A famous physical medium, Stanislawa P., was exposed in Paris by Dr. Eugene Osty, who, by means of an automatic camera, photographed her in flagrante delicto(58). The picture shows her making a 'telekinetic' movement with her hand.

(57) 'Another Unsatisfactory Séance,' Light, November 26, 1927.
(58) See Revue Metapsychique, Paris, for November-December, 1930.

Another physical medium, Clemens Kraus (pseud.: 'Karl. Weber') was exposed in Vienna by Professor Hans Thirring in November, 1924. In his report(59) Kraus's tricks are described and illustrated. Kraus afterwards wrote his 'confessions,'(60) the MS. and copyright of which were purchased by me. One of Kraus's tricks pictured by Professor Thirring shows the medium, in the dark, lifting a heavy table completely off the floor by means of his head. His hands and feet were fully controlled. Still another materializing medium, Harold Evans (a Britisher) was exposed by a panel formed by the Sunday Chronicle. Professor Julian Huxley, Professor A. M. Low, Dr. Harold Dearden, Miss Estelle Stead and others were the judges. Evans was found to be masquerading in a white nightshirt, which was seized(61).

(59) 'Psychical Research in Vienna,' Journal, Am. SPR, December 1925, pp. 690-707.
(60) Abstract was published in the Berliner Illustrierte Zeitung, December 25, 1932.
(61) See 'Amazing Exposure of a Famous Medium,' Sunday Chronicle, October 31, 1926.

Baron von Schrenck-Notzing exposed a number of physical mediums including Oskar Schlag, Kraus, and Ladislaus Laszlo(62), the latter a Hungarian. At the time of his death the Baron had just completed a MS. Gefalschte Wunder: Kraus-Laszlo-Schlag, a work dealing with the tricks of the above mediums. Lucia Sordi, an Italian medium, claimed to be able to 'dematerialize' herself from the inside of a locked cage. She was tested by Schrenck, who was impressed with the way in which she escaped from her prison until he found that a wooden block, the exact size of her head, could be squeezed between the bars of the cage(63). These 'matter through matter' miracles are part of the stock-in-trade of many physical mediums. When Slade was in Leipzig he convinced Zöllner that he was able to pass a sealed loop of cord through a solid wooden ring(64). This 'proof' of Zöllner's theory of the 'fourth dimension' caused much controversy(65). The trick is now well known and is worked as follows: the knot is a faked one in which is hidden a tiny threaded brass tapered socket. To one end of the cord is glued a tiny tapered brass screw. This end can be screwed into the knot at will, and as it buries itself in the knot, the deception is absolutely indetectable. I have a specimen which I have even loaned to people who have never found the secret. Yet, with hands behind my back, I was able to remove the ring from the cord - or put it on - in a few seconds. In the same way, Cecil Husk claimed, by psychic means, to pass on to his arm a solid forged iron ring apparently much too small to encircle his hand. The SPR demonstrated that by using a local anaesthetic on his hand the feat could be performed without recourse to the spirits(66). Jean Guzik, whom I exposed(67) in Warsaw in 1923, also declared that he could cause solid objects to pass spontaneously into locked boxes, though he never had the temerity to show me this particular wonder. However, he did show me (in the dark) his 'fiery Pithecanthropus' - his own hand in a stocking dabbed with two phosphorus 'eyes.'

(62) See 'Der Betrug des Mediums Ladislaus Laszlo,' Psychische Studien, Leipzig, March, 1924, pp. 129-60.
(63) Luce e Ombra, Rome, November, 1910.
(64) Transcendental Physics.
(65) See Gemeinfassliche, Leicht Controlirbare Losung der Aufgabe: 'In ein ring formig geschlossenes Band einen Knoten zu machen' ... ' by Oscar Simony, Wien, 1881.
(66) See Proc., SPR, Vol. Ill, 1885, pp. 460-3.
(67) 'Some Impressions of Jean Guzik and his Phenomena,' by Harry Price, Light, September 29, 1923.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:03:59 pm
Sandra Taylor

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Medium or the Rue Christine

In the summer of 1936 I happened to break my journey at Ostend on the way home from Germany. I was strolling down the Rue Christine one hot evening when I noticed outside a shop a board which informed me, in English, French and Flemish, that a medium was 'operating' there nightly. Admission, 25 francs. I looked at my watch and found the show was due to begin in twenty minutes, at eight o'clock precisely. I clambered up the short flight of wooden stairs leading to the first-floor room over the shop, where the séance was due to be held. A warm welcome from a blowsy-looking female greeted each sitter, who was asked for his fee, even before he seated himself, The séance room was a small one and the medium - of the typical Belgian mechanic class - was seated with his back to the only window, over which, just before the séance began, curtains were drawn, excluding all light. The sitters sat round him in a semicircle. In front of the medium was a table supporting a tambourine, a toy trumpet, and a small accordion. The sitters - most of them of the usual rather unintelligent sort who frequent séances - were asked to search the medium and lash him to his chair. Two men volunteered. They turned out the man's pockets very thoroughly, and made a good job of roping the Belgian. Then the light was switched off and we were left in complete darkness.

The séance had hardly begun when the female I have mentioned complained of the heat in the room, and leaving her place in the circle, went over in the dark to the window, which she opened a few inches at the bottom, again closing the curtains.

Then the entertainment began: the tambourine was flung across the room; the trumpet was blown and an air was played on the accordion - to the excited plaudits of the sitters. Then the man's 'spirit control,' whose name I forget (it was, of course, one of the over-worked Red Indian 'guides') spoke in broken English-obviously for the benefit of the Britishers who were present. Then a small luminous cross was seen floating near where we knew the medium was sitting, and the performance finished with a shower of sparkling 'spirit lights', which spluttered hither and thither from somewhere behind the medium, who, it was seen, was now almost entirely free from his bonds. The room lights were then switched on and, the séance having ended, the sitters departed.

But I stayed on for a few minutes. Most of the performance was rather silly, and a poor imitation of the Davenport Brothers' feats. But the lights intrigued me, especially the luminous cross. I wondered how he obtained them, as he was really well searched. The woman had now drawn back the curtains and flung the window wide open. Then the whole thing was apparent. Outside the window was a long box containing plants. On the top of the soil was a heap of large beach pebbles to weight the box in order to prevent the wind from blowing it over. I walked to the window and soon found what I anticipated - a large pebble covered with fulminating paste, which was hardly distinguishable from its fellows. This pebble, rubbed against a hard object, produced a percussive flash, such as we had seen. The next day I saw children playing on the Digue with something similar.

The medium and his wife watched me with some interest, if not alarm. Would I demand my money back, or inform the police? I did neither, but had an interesting chat with them instead, explaining who I was. They admitted that the whole show was, well, just a show, and said that if they were to run a boarding-house, they would be fleecing the visitors just the same. As I anticipated, when the woman opened the window just after the séance began, she picked the fulminating pebble, and another, from off the windowbox and passed them to her husband. The luminous cross, I learned, was painted on the sole of the man's right foot, which he just waved round and round in the dark. The conversation was becoming most interesting, with an interchange of professional secrets, when we discovered it was nearly nine o'clock, the time advertised for the next séance. As I wended my way to the Kursaal to watch the gambling, an urchin thrust a bill in my hand. It read: Votre main parle ... la revelation de votre destinee. Chaque ligne de votre main marque un fait important dans votre vie... Prix 25 francs. But I had had enough of 'psychics' for one night, and I knew that the only 'palms' the Ostend mediums were really interested in were those containing good Belgian francs.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:04:27 pm
Sandra Taylor

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Mediums' Confessions

I could fill this entire volume with accounts of fraudulent mediums, their exposures, and their confessions. And my list would not include the thousands of fortune-tellers who have fallen into the hands of the police.

Most fraudulent mediums confess when they are in a tight corner in order to save themselves from possible legal proceedings. Some, more honest, get sick of the whole business and confess their frauds in order to ease their conscience.(68) in 1891, in America, a sensation was caused by the publication(69) of The Revelations of a Spirit Medium. In that same year it was 'entered according to Act of Congress in the Office of the Librarian of Congress at Washington.' That is, it was copyrighted. And that is all we know definitely about the book. The author was either Donovan, Charles F. Pidgeon, Frank N. Foster, or Mansfield, and bibliophiles have not yet decided which. But the work itself is a brilliant and detailed exposé of most of the tricks used by fraudulent mediums, who bought up all the copies they could find and destroyed them. The book is now of the extremest rarity. During a lifetime's collecting of rare books on magic I have found only three copies. One of these I sacrificed in order that a facsimile edition(70) could be produced by the anastatic process, This was edited by Dr. E. J. Dingwall and myself.

(68) For example, that of Douglas Blackburn, whose 'Confessions of a Famous Medium' appeared in John Bull, December 5, 1908 to January 9, 1909.
(69) By Farrington & Co., St. Paul, Minn., U.S.A.
(70) Revelations of a Spirit Medium; or, Spiritualistic Mysteries Exposed. With Notes, Bibliography, Glossary and Index. Ed. by Harry Price and E. J. Dingwall, London, 1922. (Sec. Ed., 1930.)

Another work, also anonymous (though supposed to have been written by Chapman), appeared in London in 1882 under the title of Confessions of a Medium: and a series of articles, Confessions of a Bogus Medium: How I Made £1,000 a Year by Faked Séances was published by a weekly journal(71). It is well worth reading.

(71) In the World's Pictorial News, London, beginning February 20, 1920.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:04:56 pm
Sandra Taylor

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The Beare Sensation

The most sensational confession by a medium during the past fifty years was that of Charles Albert Beare, the trance and trumpet medium and psychometrist. It was in 1920 that Mr. Beare first began to take a serious interest in spiritualism, after having practised conjuring tricks. He joined a spiritualist organization called the Temple of Light and soon blossomed out into a full-blown 'medium.'

After a few years Beare became thoroughly sick of the whole business and, to ease his mind, made a full confession. This was published in the Daily Express(72) for September 18, 1931. The interview makes remarkable reading. Beare says: 'I have deceived hundreds of people... I have been guilty of fraud and deception in spiritualistic practices by pretending that I was controlled by a spirit guide... I am frankly and whole-heartedly sorry that I have allowed myself to deceive people... I believe that when they read my full and frank confession they will forgive me for the way I have deceived them, and I am convinced that spiritualists could not do better than clear their own ranks of the fraud and deception which I know exist in the greater part of these practices!'

(72) 'Medium's Amazing Confession ... Séance Frauds,' in the Daily Express, September 18, 1931, pp. 1 and 2.

An amusing feature of Beare's 'mediumship' is that he received a 'Diploma of Genuineness' (reproduced in facsimile by the Daily Express) from the Temple of Light. The certificate reads: 'This is to certify that Mr. C. A. Beare ... has duly established, before the Board of Examiners, his claim to possess certain Spiritual Gifts, to wit: Clairvoyance and Psychometry ... and the said person named herein was deemed to have successfully demonstrated such gifts to the satisfaction of the Board and is hereby passed as an Authorized Medium.'

Beare had to possess a 'spirit guide,' so he called it 'Shauna,' a Greek supposed to have lived 130 years ago. Sometimes the exotic 'Shauna' was a professor, sometimes a sheik - according to circumstances. Beare says: 'I used a sort of gibberish ... anything that came into my head ... in a muddled way. It was all for effect, but it usually went down all right.' Occasionally, the sitters declared that they could see 'Shauna' standing behind him.

On November 4, 1931, I persuaded Beare to address the members of the National Laboratory of Psychical Research. His talk, 'Adventures of a Pseudo-Medium' was very amusing. He told us how he used to speak down the trumpet, and he gave us imitations of 'Shauna' talking 'Greek.' When asked why he finally gave up his 'mediumship,' Beare replied: 'Because I got absolutely disgusted with what I saw and with myself!'

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:05:25 pm
Sandra Taylor

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'Gambols with the Ghosts' [top]

In order to produce their 'psychic' tricks, the less clever fakers have to rely on those persons who sell apparatus and 'secrets' to professional mediums. The existence of these mediums' supply houses is denied by those in the business, and I believe it is a fact that very few mediums in this country (where physical phenomena are rare) know of such places. But they do exist, and their proprietors loan out catalogues to those mediums in want of some new spiritualistic effect. Again, it is strenuously denied that such catalogues exist, or have existed.

Well, these catalogues do exist, but only just! They are issued on loan to only a chosen few, and they are so excessively rare that during a lifetime's search for a specimen, it was only during the production of this work that I came into possession of a copy, the only one in Great Britain. This was in the records of Mr. William Marriott, the well-known illusionist and veteran arch-debunker of 'spirit' fakes, who kindly presented it to me. I know of only one copy in America, in the collection of John Mulholland, who quotes extracts in his Beware Familiar Spirits(73).

(73) New York and London, 1938.

And now having at last obtained a copy of this almost unprocurable brochure, the least I can do is to tell my readers something about it. The title is: Gambols with the Ghosts. Mind Reading, Spiritualistic Effects, Mental and Psychical Phenomena and Horoscopy. It was issued in 1901 by Ralph E. Sylvestre & Co., of 25, Ashland Boulevard, Chicago, a firm 'Established in 1870.' On a label attached to the titlepage is printed: 'Return to Geo. L. Williams & Co., Sole Agents, Syracuse, Indiana.' Apparently Williams issued these catalogues for private circulation among mediums, who had to return to him the list when goods had been selected. The miracles for sale in the copy I possess are catalogued 101-70. The 'effects' (but not the secrets!) are well illustrated by clever drawings, and the catalogue runs to forty pages.

In an introductory note 'To our Friends and Patrons,' Mr. Sylvestre writes: 'Our experience during the past thirty years in supplying mediums and others with the peculiar effects in this line enable us to place before you only those which are practical and of use, nothing that you have to experiment with. All of our effects are equally suitable for ladies or gentlemen except where mentioned. We wish you to thoroughly appreciate that, while we do not, for obvious reasons, mention the names of our clients and their work (they being kept in strict confidence, the same as a physician treats his patients), we can furnish you with the explanation and, where necessary, the materials for the production of any known public "tests" or "phenomena" not mentioned in this, our latest list. You are aware that our effects are being used by nearly all prominent mediums ... of the entire world(74), and you can, therefore, be assured of receiving fraternal and honest treatment in all transactions... There are, as you are aware, sporadic attempts at exposure of mediums, and of slurs in the press at the same and at ourselves. We do not countenance or support the former and utterly ignore the latter. In our mental feats are found much to ponder over, and prove the truth of the immortal Goethe's history of the friendly philosophers in his wonderful work on Electoral Affinities, while in our mechanical appliances the work is absolutely faultless.'

(74) My italics.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:06:08 pm
Sandra Taylor

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Cheap Miracles

And now for the effects themselves. For one dollar you can purchase a simple slate-writing miracle (instructions only): 'Any ordinary single or double slate is examined, thoroughly washed, and either held by sitter or hung to chandelier for a few moments; when opened a message is found thereon.' Another slate-writing feat 'for close circles,' which will provide answers to 'questions asked by investigators,' cost only $1.50. For the same sum you can produce 'Instantaneous Spirit Writing,' the 'recent invention of a prominent English medium.' The modus operandi is that 'the medium asks for a visiting card of anyone present, and holds it up in full view in one hand, and while waving the card about slowly he asks for the name of any celebrity or person, living or dead. On same being pronounced, he at once hands card for inspection and the selected name is found written thereon.' Surely a cheap miracle for only $1.50. Other slate-writing phenomena, even more miraculous, are priced as high as $10.00 each.

The first requisite for a fake physical medium starting in business is, of course, the humble but useful reaching-rod. Mr. Sylvestre sells them: 'Telescopic Reaching Rod. A very useful article for mediums working in the dark. They go in pocket and extend from four to six feet ... will pick up or bring to you any ordinary small object, float a guitar, etc., $4.00.' The guitar mentioned is a self-playing one: 'Indispensable for mediums. Finely finished Guitars. In dark séances they play without medium's hands touching them. Price $25.00.'

'Convincing' Spooks

No dark séance is complete without a materialization or two. As Mr. Sylvestre himself says: 'For all materializing mediums, the production of luminous hands or faces is a sine quâ non for their success. We furnish you complete with explicit directions for the making and production of same, or furnish them complete and ready for use as desired. Also draperies, head-dresses, and ornaments of the finest quality known. $5.00 to $25.00.' For full-form apparitions the price is, of course, higher: 'Luminous Materialistic Ghosts and Forms. All kinds and sizes. Full luminous female form and dress (with face that convinces) which can be produced in ordinary room or circle, appears gradually, floats about room and disappears. $50.00.'

The mental medium is not forgotten. Mr. Sylvestre will supply 'Clairvoyant and Psychic Readings for Private Sittings.' The system is sold to billet-readers, 'under certain written conditions only,' and costs $25.00. The effect is described as follows: 'The sitter enters the medium's parlour and is seated anywhere. He is requested to write his questions on an ordinary piece of paper, and keep same in his possession, the medium is not necessarily present during the writings, yet he, in a few seconds, is in full knowledge of what was written, although he does not handle or touch the paper on which questions were written... We wish to impress upon you that in this there is nothing used that has been made use of in somewhat similar effects in times past.' I wonder! Mr. Sylvestre must have forgotten his classics, or he would have remembered that the famous impostor and false prophet Alexander the Paphlagonian, of Abonouteichos (the modern Ineboli) in Asia Minor, established an oracle of the snake-god Glycon-Asclepius and he, too, gave answers to sealed messages, but was not always successful(75). Alexander, who 'flourished' about A.D. 150, must surely have been the first fake billet-reader in history. Lucian the Satirist has left us an amusing and detailed record of his 'psychic' frauds, his 'intelligence bureau' in Rome, etc.

(75) Like the fake billet-reader of to-day, he used heated needles for surreptitiously removing seals from closed missives. (See Lucian's Alexander).

But to return to Gambols with the Ghosts. In Mr. Sylvestre's fascinating catalogue you will find details and prices of spirit jugs; trick ropes for binding mediums; 'matter through matter' effects; fire tests; fake padlocks, bolts, handcuffs, benches, shackles and staples; mechanical and self-rapping tables, chairs, bells, hands and skulls; fake spirit sacks, bags and trunks; rapping tests 'as used by D. D. Home'; mind-reading, clairvoyant, second sight and psychometry tests (one of the latter having been reduced from $100.00 to $25.00) and complete mesmeric and hypnotic shows, etc. Then of course there are the incidentals necessary to every good physical medium, such as luminous paint, spirit robes, pasteboard hands, rubber 'spirits,' etc. Finally, for the youngster just starting out in the world and wishing to make good, there is the 'Complete Spiritualistic Séance,' which includes spirit slate-writing, table turning, rapping, and lifting, sealed letter reading, fire-resisting effects (such as handling heated lamp chimneys or holding handkerchiefs in a naked flame without burning) - all for $25.00, 'express charges prepaid' to any address. Now we know what to do with our sons!

My only comment on this precious catalogue is that although Mr. Sylvestre reveals no secrets, practically all the effects are explained in The Revelations of a Spirit Medium, published anonymously in 1891 and written by a medium (either Donovan, Charles F. Pidgeon, Frank N. Foster or J. V. Mansfield) who suddenly 'got religion' and 'blew the gaff' with a vengeance.

Mr. Mulholland became friendly with one of these mediums' outfitters, and was permitted to examine his books. Out Of 2,000 customers, he recognized the names of several famous American mediums. In his book, my friend also reproduces an advertisement giving the current prices of 'certificates of ordination' for mediums. One can become a 'reverend' for $10.00 a 'D.D' for $5.00 and a 'bishop' for five times that sum. These ordinations are cheap at the price, as under American law, the clergy can travel at special fares on the railroads.

The Only Remedy [top]

The only remedy for all the fraud, humbug, and deception exemplified in this chapter is to examine and register professional mediums and control their activities in some way. The curse of fraudulent mediumship can be met only by legislation. To this end I have designed a Bill(76), which I hope will some day reach the Statute Book. I have had the assistance of Mr. Gordon Alchin, the distinguished barrister, who has drafted the Bill for Parliament, where, in due course, it will be presented and sponsored by a well-known lawyer M.P. The Bill will have the effect of stimulating scientific investigation and will confer upon the genuine medium a cachet he could not otherwise obtain. Conversely, the professional fraudulent medium will find his nefarious trade both difficult and dangerous. It will also make spiritualism 'respectable' in the eyes of the public. If the Psychic Practitioners (Regulation) Bill ever becomes law, we shall hear much less of the seamy side of spiritualism.

(76) See Appendix C.

Note:

The article above was taken from Harry Price's "Fifty Years of Psychical Research" (1939, Longmans, Green & Co.)

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:06:41 pm
Mish

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Sandra - Not a believer in ghosts - eh? :-)

Yes, the spiritualism movement and it's subsequant offspring of fortune tellers is unfortunate. It is all this trickery that makes a real scientific study of the phenomenon nearly impossible. It is an area overflowing with fraud and I feel sorry for the poor souls who buy into it. There should be a stupidity tax on fortune tellers! :-) But since we are on the subject of medium tricks and such....

Can we discuss Ouija boards? :-)

Every cell in my body wants to tell me that it is a harmless and silly game that people make up stories for to perpetuate a myth. However, my brother made a homemade one when we lived in a 'haunted house' in england (see previous posts in hauntings to get the whole tamale') It gave us some eerily accurate information about a number of people, including children, dying in the house at about the same time. I found out a long time later, while researching the house, it was used as a hospital during the Black Plague of 1695.

This is TOO weird to be a coincedence. How did I get that information about a large number of people dying at this house unless it was from some OTHER source than my imagination? If my brother and I were controlling the Ouija with our subconcious (what I always WANTED to believe before this all played out) how did we know about the hospital/blk plague thing?? I'm not supporting any 'Ouija magic'or anything, and am normally very skeptical about such things, but I have never found a satisfactory explanation for the information I got out of the Ouija board. Any ideas?

I have been too chicken to try the Ouija again for over 15years, tho' I do own one just in case. I've heard too any stories on how it's like throwing the door open to your house and yelling for ANYONE to come over... you could draw a real psycho to you or something, and I have 2 kids to think about! :-) But, the skeptic in me WANTS to try it again as my house is over a century old and, who knows, it may have something to say.

Waddaya think?? Any thoughts on the mystery that is the Ouija Board???
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:10:18 pm
 
rockessence

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Oui-ja is THE WORST form of contact....There is absolutely no excuse for using an implement that yells "YES-YES" to the astral plane. The astral plane holds nothing but the detritus of all energy. There is nothing positive there, only that which masks itself as positive.

All of us can develop our God-given innate sensitivity to subtle energies. Through your strengthening and use of your connection to your "I AM Presence", your "God-self" can you become aware of what is there to be "read" in various locations.

All locations store information of events. Events which hold great emotion are the most obvious.

All protection, physical and otherwise, stems from your "I AM Presence". There is where you begin and end all exploration.....

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:10:57 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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Mish, of course, I'm a firm believer in ghosts. The point of the articles was to draw attention to the fake spiritualism of the late 1800's and early twentieth century and the spiritualism that happened there at the time. Things like spirit photography, seances, and automatic writing were faked for the most part, playing on people's needs to communicate with the dead.

I used to really like Harry Price and still think his book, "the Most Haunted House in England," about the Borley Rectory is a good read. But everything I've learned about him would seem to suggest that he was a fraud, too, and faked much of the phemomena that he reported on there.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:11:36 pm
Sandra Taylor

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We were discussing the Ouija Board, and here is an article that I managed to find that does a good job encompassing the subject:



quote:
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The Dangers of the Ouija Board
Dan Corner

One of the chief tools used in divination is the Ouija Board. Though Parker Brothers (those who manufacture it) would suggest that this is merely a game used for entertainment purposes, this occultic tool leads to spiritual darkness. It is described as such:

A board and pointer used for divination and by some as a means to contact spirits or entities. The name comes from the French and German words for "yes," oui and ja (ja is mispronounced with a hard "j"). Critics of the Ouija, who include authorities in most denominations of Christianity, say it is dangerous and a tool of the Devil. Advocates say that it, like other forms of divination, is a legitimate means to discover insight, wisdom, and self-truths and to communicate with discarnate beings.
The board includes letters of the alphabet, numerals 0 through 9, the words "yes" and "no," and a heart-shaped pointer on three felt-tipped legs. One or two people place their fingertips on the pointer, which moves to answer questions. In most cases answers probably rise up from the subconsciousness of the users, even when "spirits" identify themselves and give messages. However, Ouija pointers have been known to fly off the board and spin out of control, as though being directed by unseen forces, and some users claim to be harassed by external agents contacted through the board.

Precursors to the Ouija date back to ancient times. In China before the birth of Confucius (c. 551 B.C.), similar instruments were used to communicate with the dead. In Greece during the time of Pythagoras (c. 540 B.C.) divination was done with a table that moved on wheels to point to signs, which were interpreted as revelations from the "unseen world." The rolling table was used through the nineteenth century. Other such devices were used by the ancient Romans as early as the third century A.D., and in the thirteenth century by the Mongols. Some Native Americans used "squdilatc boards" to find missing objects and persons, and obtain spiritual information. In 1853 the planchette came into use in Europe. It consisted of a triangular or heart-shaped platform on three legs, one of which was a pencil. The medium or user moved the device over paper to draw pictures and spell out messages.(1)

NOTE: The Ouija board, like other forms of divination, has been used in an attempt to contact the dead (necromancy), which is clearly condemned by the Bible:
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so (Deut. 18:10-14).
All other forms of sorcery are clearly denounced in Scripture as well. Those that refuse to listen to God regarding this command are mentioned in the follow Scripture:
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Rev. 21:8).
Their only hope is to find forgiveness by turning from this form of wickedness to the true and living God through Jesus Christ. See Acts 20:21.
Ouija Popularity Around WW I
The Ouija enjoyed enormous popularity during and after World War I, when many people were desperate to communicate with loved ones killed in the war and Spiritualism was in a revival. In 1966 Fuld sold his patent to Parker Brothers game company of Beverly, Massachusetts. Interest in the Ouija picked up again in the 1960s and 1970s, along with renewed interest in the occult and supernatural. Parker Brothers stresses that the Ouija is a game for entertainment purposes.(2)
Demon Possession and The Ouija Board
People know not what they do when they dabble in the occult, even innocently. By doing such they open themselves up to many spiritual dangers that normally would never occur, one of which is demon possession. Such has been linked to the Ouija board:
Some demonologists say the Ouija opens the door to possession by evil spirits ....(3)
Some evil spirits first contacted by the Ouija board has led to a deeper involvement and bondage in the occult.
Jane Roberts, Seth and Others
Some critics contend that such contact is inherently dangerous, and that any beings who communicate through such a device are likely to be demonic and attempt to possess the user .... The entity Seth, popularized by the writings of Jane Roberts in the 1960s and 1970s, initiated his communication with Roberts through a Ouija board. The communication then rapidly progressed to direct automatic writing with a pen and then into a trance mediumship in which Seth allegedly used Roberts' vocal cords to speak.
The Ouija also served as the initial means of communication with alleged spirits of the dead in 1913 for Pearl Curran (see WORTH, PATIENCE), and in 1919 for Stewart Edward White and his wife, Betty. The Whites spent 17 years studying Betty's mediumship with a group of discarnate beings who called themselves "the Invisibles." After initial contact was made through the Ouija, Betty began using automatic writing and then trance mediumship, in which the spirits allegedly used her own vocal cords.(4)

The Lie Will Continue to go Forth
Be assured, that for the many that are misinformed, the Ouija board will continue to be accepted as a mere game for entertainment purposes:
Ouija A device marketed as a game in which answers to questions are divined.(5)
The Ouija Board is Unsafe and Even Used in Seances!
While the Ouija board remains popular and is sold commercially as a "game," it has been attacked both by critics of the occult and those within the occult community who consider it unsafe. Some mediums claim to have started with the board and "discovered" their psychic abilities as a result of using it.(6)
Ouija board, in occultism, a device ostensibly used for obtaining messages from the spirit world, usually employed by a medium during a séance.(7)

So what is a seance? And why would an occultic medium be using a harmless game for entertainment purposes there?
seance A sitting organized for the purpose of receiving spirit communications or paranormal manifestations via the services of a medium .... A seance is immediate and powerful, playing upon the sitters' sensibilities with a drama that no other occult reading can match. But to the initiated, the seance can open the doorway to a mysterious other world.(8)
WARNING!
Have NOTHING to do with the occult or Spiritism in any form. Do NOT dabble with what God has expressly forbidden. If you already have, pray a sincere prayer to God asking Him to forgive you for your grievous sins. Also pray a prayer of renunciation, that is, renouncing this and all involvement in the occult. If you already own an Ouija board, remove it from your house and burn it publicly. This is how some first-century sorcerers treated their scrolls and thereby proved their repentance toward God:
A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas (Acts 19:19).
Please WARN as many as you can about the Ouija board. This dangerous occulic device not only can lead to demon possession, but even eternal damnation in the lake of fire. Remember what God says about those that practice the magic arts, even if under the guise of a harmless game for entertainment purposes:
Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you (Deut.18:12).
Anyone means anyone, even a person previously saved.

Endnotes
1. Rosemary Ellen Guiley, Harper's Encyclopedia of Mystical & Paranormal Experience (NY: Harper San Francisco, 1991), pp. 418, 419.
2. Ibid., p. 419.
3. Ibid.
4. Rosemary Ellen Guiley, The Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits (New York, NY: Facts On File, Inc., 1992), p. 240.
5. Ibid., p. 239.
6. Encyclopedia of Occultism & Parapsychology, Edited by J. Gordon Melton (Detroit, MI: Gale Research, 1996), p. 966.
7. The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. 9, (Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., 1997), p. 11.
8. Guiley, The Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits, pp. 298, 299.


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[ 07-18-2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Sandra Taylor ]
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:12:04 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-18-2005 07:39 PM                       
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Harry Price was one of the most well known psychical researchers of his time. In the 1930s & 1940s, no newspaper or magazine article about an alleged case of haunting or a radio broadcast concerning poltergeists or the supernatural was complete without a contribution from Price. He himself was a talented and prolific writer and journalist, producing dozens of articles & several best selling books. A conjuror, engineer, photographer & numismatist, he carried out sittings with countless mediums, investigated all manner of haunted places, founded his own National Laboratory for the scientific examination of psychic phenomena & amassed the greatest collection of occult & magical literature which is still consulted by students & researchers to this day in a career which spanned over four decades & took him all over the world.

Although his position in the history of British psychical research is well established, Price was a controversial figure in his day & this controversy continues to the present time as in the years following his death he has been accused amongst other things of fraud and deception in several of his investigations and in his most famous case in particular, the haunting of Borley Rectory, known as 'The Most Haunted House in England'.

http://www.harryprice.co.uk/
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:12:31 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-18-2005 08:31 PM                       
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There is one thing I am certain of the ouija is not simply an innocent game.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:12:59 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 07-19-2005 07:33 AM                       
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spooky

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:13:30 pm
Mish

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  posted 07-19-2005 07:46 AM                       
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Sandra - Awesome posts! Thanks! I was particularly interested about the parts from the bible the show how God detests any sort of communication with the dead. Wow, am I in trouble. :-) What I want to know now is if God is so against communication with the dead, why did he give THEM the ability to appear to us?? A bit of a double standard there. I've seen what people describe as 'ghosts' with my own eyes at a house in England I lived in as a teen. I SAW dead people (me and Haley Jo Osmand. Ha!) - if that is indeed what they were!!

So are the 'ghosts' I saw 'cast out' from God, and why would I be given the ability to SEE them if God was so adimately against it?? (Retorical questions unless the almighty wants to join our forum :-)

The Ouija stuff is a bit creepy to me somehow still, and I'll tell you why. When my bro, sis and I had our "Ouija" experience (1984), the cup moved SOOOOOO fast that we couldn't even MAKE it move that quickly ourselves, even when we tried. It was nothing like the suspenseful slow moves in the movies. It shot around the board like it was desperate to be heard. The spelling was very bad and all phonetic, but the 'people' we talked to (two - one named Nicholas and one, Michael) seemed cordial enough - not threatening at all in tone. We went on for hours into the night doing this since we were in disbelief at what we were seeing, and the board never faultered once.

The next morning, in an effort to test what we had seen, my sis an I flipped a cup onto the back of a book, deignated a 'yes' side and a 'no' side, and asked a question. When the cup took off across the book - mid morning with no cerimony, no board, and no alphabet at all, we got really scared at the unseen power we were obviously tapping into and I have never tried it since.

Unknown - ever used Ouija? It sounds as if you might have had an experience with it, or at least heard people say not to mess with it -right?

Roc - Explain more about the astral plain being where nothing positive exists. I agree with you about how we are all God, in a sense, and He is everwhere and in everything. I also believe that all time 'overlaps' and is sort of happening at once. I am a quantum fanatic right now, trying to explain ghostly phenomenon thru physics, and I guess I am not sure I believe a place that is full of bad energy (like hell or something) even exists. I think we are all part of the same cosmic soup... good, evil, all of it! But, I would like to hear your beliefs on this astral plane explanation. It sounds interesting.
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:13:58 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 07-19-2005 08:44 AM                       
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Yes

If I remeber correctly I got one for Christmas one year.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:14:39 pm
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 07-19-2005 05:31 PM                       
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http://store1.yimg.com/I/dmart_1854_175652899

I actually believe this is the most dangerous of them all,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001ZWV7/indrasnet/104-4426686-9125520

;o)

http://www.museumoftalkingboards.com/gal1.html

It is creepy though, I wouldn't let my daughter have one, although I did have one,then tables and chairs started moving around the house and my mom got rid of it, and I once channneled a spirit at a friends house, scared the begebbers outta them I did.

That was 40 years ago by golly.

I have always been a little OFF ever since, come to think of it.



[ 07-19-2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Posts: 9824 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:15:06 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-19-2005 07:24 PM                       
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Ishtar

The magic eight ball most dangerous?

It didn't take long for the ouija to go in the trash at our house.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:15:53 pm
 
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 07-21-2005 06:13 PM                       
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quote,
The magic eight ball most dangerous?
I was joking

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Posts: 9824 | Registered: Feb 2002   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:16:14 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-21-2005 06:20 PM                       
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Ishtar I thought so...

Well you are quite the medium aren't you? It must have been quite trying at times any advice for others with this ability?

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:16:34 pm
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 07-21-2005 08:39 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEA

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Posts: 9824 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:16:55 pm
 
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 07-21-2005 08:40 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEA YOU, are born with it.

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 9824 | Registered: Feb 2002   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:17:26 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-21-2005 09:09 PM                       
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Ishtar
They have HP Manly's "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages" on Sacred Texts now

reading it now

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:17:50 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 07-21-2005 09:23 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about crystal? Cayce did say the atlantians communicated with the dead through cyrstal cylinders, allthough I do think he was seeing a atlantis of the future.Maybe a computer with a crystal chip:)
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Posts: 7892 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:18:40 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-21-2005 10:15 PM                       
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Thanks, Mish, I would like to dwell a little bit more on the subject of spirit photography. If you follow the link to the article, there is the picture of the famous "Brown Lady" ghost descending the stairs:

- THE HAUNTED MUSEUM -

SPIRIT PHOTOGRAPHY
It's Strange & Controversial History



The actual practice of attempting to capture ghosts on film dates back nearly a century and a half to around 1861. Not surprisingly, this type of photography has been controversial and the subject of much debate ever since.

The reason that is most given for the lack of widespread acceptance of the credibility of spirit photographs is that the photographs of the past were so riddled with fraud. Strangely though, it is spirit photography that seems to provide the most scientific evidence of ghosts. It is one of the only methods of capturing ghostly phenomena that approaches the standards of science. The reasons for this are fairly simple and include the fact that genuine spirit photos are clearly a physical phenomenon; the amount of energy that goes into making such a photo can be measured by the way it appears in the image; a method of attempting to establish replication is possible; and finally, that it may be possible at some point to develop explanations for how spirit photographs are made and why they exist.

Spirit photography is what seems to be the effect of radiation of some sort on photosensitive film. Such results continue today, although much has changed from the early days of photography. In those days, the photographer first had to prepare a glass plate by coating it with a film of collodion (gun cotton dissolved in ether) containing iodide of potassium, sensitize it by dipping it into a bath of silver nitrate and then take the photograph while the plate was still wet. Each exposure was exciting, each batch of chemicals mixed was a new experiment and every result and reason to take another. Today, we take photography for granted by simply loading film into a camera and snapping a picture. But thanks to advances in film, cameras and technology over the last several decades, it may be that the controversial science of spirit photography is finally coming of age. Of course, nothing of the present could exist without the example of the past.

Spirit photography of today differs greatly from that of days gone by however. As mentioned already, the fraudulent spirit photography of the past has damaged the reputation of modern efforts, making it difficult for today’s ghost hunter’s to be taken seriously. Just the mention of "spirit photography" tends to conjure up the images of days gone by, a period that was plagued with questionable methods and often humorous results. But were all of the photographs of the past fake images that were created to bilk people out of their money? It has been claimed that spirit photographs were first produced by accident and only when unscrupulous photographers realized the wealth to be made from them were the first fraudulent images produced. But were they all frauds or did a few fakes muddy the waters for the many?

A fairly standard spirit photograph of days past. This was taken by William Hope of a Mrs. Longcake and what was alleged to be her deceased sister in law.


The very first spirit photograph has long been erroneously credited to William Mumler, a Boston engraver in 1861 but as it happens, he was not the first to take a photo that would later be deemed as "unexplainable". This bizarre event actually occurred just one year before, but as the photographer was never able to reproduce the results, he has since faded from memory. His name was W. Campbell though and he lived in Jersey City, New Jersey. One day, he was taking a test photograph of an empty chair and while there was no one else in the studio at the time, the developed plate showed the image of a small boy. Campbell was never able to produce any more photographs of this nature however and so it was not until the following year when the history of spirit photography really began.

The first "official" spirit photograph has been credited to a Boston engraver named William Mumler, an experienced and enthusiastic amateur photographer with a studio on Washington Street. While developing some experimental self-portraits of himself, a developed plate showed the image of a young woman standing next to him. As he examined the picture, he recognized the figure as that of a cousin who had died 12 years earlier. He later recalled that while posing for the photograph, he had experienced a strange trembling sensation in his right arm that left him feeling exhausted.


A photograph taken by William Mumler in the 1860's
The photograph attracted great interest and came about during the expansion of the Spiritualist movement. It was investigated by both the Spiritualists and by prominent photographers of the day, who came to believe Mumler's statement on the subject, which said: "This photograph was taken by myself of myself and there was not a living person in the room besides myself." Mumler was soon overwhelmed by public demand for similar photographs and he began taking two hours each day from his regular work as an engrave for Bigelow Bros. and Kennard, one of Boston's best jewelers. Soon, he gave up his job entirely and devoted his efforts to spirit photography.

William Black, a leading Boston photographer and the inventor of the acid nitrate bath (an important improvement in the photographic process) was one of the professional photographers who investigated Mumler and his methods. While attending a sitting in Mumler's studio, Black carefully examined his camera, plate, dipper and bath and even kept his eye on the plate from the moment its preparation began, until it was sensitized and locked into the dark slide. After his portrait was taken, Black removed it from the camera and took it to the darkroom himself where, as it was developed, he saw the figure of a man leaning over his shoulder. He had no explanation for its appearance.


Although he had not previously been interested in spirits or Spiritualism, Mumler soon began to describe himself as a "medium for taking spirit photographs" and although the spirit "extras" were often unrecognizable and blurred, in many of the cases they were the distinct likenesses of deceased family members and friends. He quickly became the subject of great controversy. Even the testimony of New York Supreme Court Judge John Edmonds -- who had gone to see Mumler convinced that he was a fraud and left convinced that he could actually produce psychic photographs -- failed to quiet the critics and the non-believers. Mumler finally left Boston and moved to New York in 1869, where he opened a new studio and charged as much as $10 per photograph.

The studio began to be frequented by wealthy and influential patrons. Although many of the photos that he produced were undistinguished, one one occasion at least he produced a recognizable (and some believe amazing) spirit portrait of Abraham Lincoln. A lady who was heavily veiled and wearing a black dress gave her name as "Mrs. Tydall" when she called unannounced at the studio and asked to be photographed. In Mumler's words: " I requested her to be seated, went into my darkroom and coated a plate. When I came out I found her seated with a veil still over her face. The crepe veil was so thick that it was impossible to distinguish a single feature of her face. I asked is she intended having her picture taken with her veil. She replied, 'When you are ready, I will remove it.' I said I was ready, upon which she removed the veil and the picture was taken." It was only when Mumler saw the developed print that he realized the sitter had been Mary Todd Lincoln -- for behind her stood the smiling image of Abraham Lincoln himself. This photograph has been distributed widely over the years and while some have expressed amazement at it -- most feel that it is likely a clever hoax.

Mumler's most famous photograph -- the alleged photo of Mary Lincoln and her spectral husband


In 1863, a Dr. Child of Philadelphia reported that he found Mumler to be very willing to give him every opportunity to investigate his methods and that he was himself interested in finding a rational solution to the mystery. Mumler permitted Child to watch all of his operations in the darkroom and allowed him to examine all of his apparatus. Child showed the pictures made during the investigation and he and several friends watched the whole process, from the plate cleaning to the developing. He took the precaution to mark each plate with a diamond before it was used and yet on each was a spirit image. Child failed completely to discover any human agency that could have formed the spirit extras. And with each of these, they differed considerably from any that he had seen before and he had no way of imitating them.

The extras that appeared in Mumler's photographs did not meet with universal acclaim though and after more controversy, the Mayor of New York pressured prosecutors into swearing out a warrant for his arrest on charges of "swindling credulous persons by what he called spirit photographs". His trial was widely publicized and he was later acquitted. A number of eminent New Yorker's spoke out on his behalf and in addition, a number of professional photographers also testified that they had studied samples of Mumler’s work and had found no evidence of trickery. One of these was Jeremiah Gurney, the famous Broadway photographer, and he testified that he had witnessed Mumler's process, scrutinized everything and could find nothing that appeared to be fraud or fakery. Mumler was exonerated and his case dismissed.

Many modern researchers believe that Mumler may have actually captured something genuine in some of his photos, however, the lure of money was just too big a temptation for him and he supplemented his authentic photos with fraudulent ones in order to pay the rent.


Phony spirit photograph taken by E. Buguet in 1874. The photographer was later arrested and charged with fraud.
Soon, other photographers, both amateur and professional, began to come forward and they also called themselves "mediums", claiming the ability to make dead appear in photographs. Spirit photography soon became a popular pastime and literally thousands of dollars were made from those who came to have their portraits taken. One photographer, William Hope, claimed to take more than 2,500 spirit photographs during a period of about two decades. Few of these photos appear to be in the least bit authentic.

Typically in the photographs, ghostly faces appear, floating above and behind the living subjects. In others, fully formed spirits would appear, usually draped in white sheets. Unfortunately, the methods of producing such images were simple. The fraudulent photographers became adept at doctoring their work, superimposing images on plates with living sitters and adding ghostly apparitions and double exposures. The appearance of the fully formed apparition was even easier. Old types of cameras usually demanded that the subject of the photo remain absolutely still for periods of up to one minute, all the while, the shutter of the camera remains open. During this time, it was very simple for the photographer’s assistant to quietly appear behind the sitter, dressed in appropriate "spirit attire". The assistant remained in place for a few moments and then ducked back out of the photo again. On the finished plate, it would seem that a transparent "figure" had made an appearance.


This type of "trick photo" was first mentioned in photography journals in 1856. Ten years later, Sir David Brewster recalled the technique when he saw some of the early spirit photos that were produced. He remembered another photo that he had seen of a young boy who had been sitting on a step near a doorway and who had apparently gotten up and left about halfway through the exposure. As a result, the seated image was transparent in the finished photo. Brewster wrote: "The value and application of this fact did not at first present itself to me, but after I had contrived the lenticular stereoscope I saw that such transparent pictures might be used for the various purposes of entertainment." Ghost and spirit photographs and stereographs were sold commercially in America through the 1860's and 1870's but were nothing more than a parlor novelty and were no meant to be taken as genuine spirit photographs.


A stereoscopic card from my own collection in which trick photography was used to show
"the devil" appearing in the background.

Other methods of obtaining fraudulent photographs were used as well. Prepared plates and cut films were often switched and substituted by slight of hand tricks, replacing those provided by the investigator. And while this might have fooled a credulous member of the general public, slight of hand maneuvers and instances of assistants prancing through photos draped in sheets would not have convinced hardened and skeptical investigators that the work of the spirit photographers was credible and even genuine. However, in case after case, investigators walked away stumped as to how the bizarre images managed to appear on film. For every fraud who was exposed, there was at least one other photographer who was never caught cheating.

But unfortunately, there were many who were not so honest. At about the same time that William Mumler was going on trial in New York for fraud, a popular spirit photographer named Frederick Hudson emerged on the scene in London. He was brought to the public's attention by Mrs. Samuel Guppy, a well-known medium of the day. He was eventually investigated by a famous professional photographer named John Beattie in 1873. He carried out a series of experiments with Hudson that were later published in the British Journal of Photography. At that time, Hudson was charging a steep fee for his photos, but only with the understanding that he could not be blamed if nothing unusual appeared, which often happened. In his article, Beattie described how, with a friend, he had examined the glass room in Hudson's garden where the experiments were to take place, the operating room with its yellow light and porcelain baths, the 10 x 8 inch camera with its 6 - inch lens and all of the machinery involved. He also maintained that he had marked the photographic plate to be used and watched it being coated and prepared.

For the first photograph that Hudson took, using an exposure of about one minute, Beattie sat as the subject in profile to the background and Hudson's daughter (acting as the medium) stood next to him. No extra appeared in the photo. For the next experiment, Beattie wrote: "All was the same except that the medium sat behind the background. On the picture being developed, a sitting figure beside myself came out in front of me and between the background and myself. I am sitting in profile in the picture -- the figure is in a three-quarter position -- in front of me, but altogether between me and the background. The figure is draped in black, with a white colored plaid over the head, and is like both a brother and a nephew of mine. This last point I do not press because the face is like that of a dead person and under lighted."

Beattie continued: "In my last trial -- all, if possible, more strictly attended to then before, and in the same place relative to me -- there came out a standing female figure, clothed in black skirt, and having a white-colored, thin linen drapery something like a shawl pattern, upon her shoulders, over which a mass of black hair loosely hung. The figure is in front of me and, as it were, partially between me and the camera."

Beattie had assumed that Hudson was in some way faking the photographs but was now no longer convinced of this. He was convinced that the figures were not double exposures, had not been projected in some way, were not the result of mirrors or even the result of images that had been manipulated onto the plates during the developing process. What he did not take into consideration though was that the images could have been on the plates all along -- that his own plates had been switched for "trick plates" by the photographer. This seems to have been the standard operating procedure for many of the so-called spirit photographers of the day and it was not realized for quite some time. Many of them, including a Mr. Parkes, who produced a number of psychic images even allowed themselves to be observed while working on the plates. Parkes, for instance, had an aperture cut into the wall of his darkroom so that investigators could see inside while he went through the developing process. The problem was that the investigators had no idea just what plates he was actually developing!

A spirit photo taken by Fredrick Hudson. The sitter was Raby Wootton, who, with friends, took the photograph and developed it themselves without allowing Hudson to take part in it. They never realized how easy it would be for Hudson to switch the plate that he gave them to develop!


In 1874, a French photographer named E. Buguet opened up a studio and also began a career capturing the spirits on film. Most of his photographs were of famous people, most of whom claimed to recognize deceased loved ones and family members as extras. This did not stop him from being arrested for fraud and tried by the French government though. He admitted deception but even then, there were many who refused to accept his confession as genuine, claiming that he had been paid off by the church to plead guilty. In his confession, he stated that his photographs were created by double exposure. First, he would dress up his assistants to play the part of a ghost, or would dress up a doll in sheet. This figure, along with a stock of heads, was seized by the police when they raided his studio. Buguet was fined and sentenced to a year in prison.

Even after this, his supporters continued to exist his photographs were real. Reverend Stainton Moses, the famous medium, was convinced that at least some of Buguet's spirit photographs were authentic. He said that the prosecution of the case was tainted by religious officials, that the judge was biased or that Buguet must have been bribed or terrorized to confess.

The 1870’s saw the first general acceptance that there might be something credible to at least some aspects of spirit photography. A number of references to it appeared in issues of the British Journal of Photography and in other periodicals of the time. In the 1890’s, J. Traille Taylor, the editor of the Journal, reviewed the history of spirit photography and detailed the methods by which fraudulent photos were sometimes produced. He approached the phenomenon as a true skeptic, not immediately disbelieving it, but studying it in a scientific manner. He used a stereoscopic camera and noted that the psychically produced images did not appear to be in three dimensions. He used his own camera and he and his assistants did all of the developing and photographing. Strangely, they were still able to produce mysterious results.

In 1891, the practice of spirit photography gained more credibility when Alfred Russell Wallace, the co-developer of the theory of evolution, spoke out with the belief that spirit photography should be studied scientifically. He later wrote about his own investigations into it and included a statement that he believed the possibility of it was real. He did not feel that just because some of the photos that had been documented were obviously fraudulent, that all of them could be dismissed as hoaxes.

Despite such notable interest in the field, little was heard of spirit photography (outside of Spiritualist circles) for a number of years. But during this time, some fairly spectacular photos did manage to appear and some of them have remained unexplained ever since. Perhaps my favorite of this period has been referred to as the "Lord Combermere Photograph". The photo was taken in 1891 (and first published in 1895) by Sybell Corbett, who was staying with her sister at Combermere Abbey in Cheshire, England. She decided to take a photo of the large library there and used an exposure of about one hour, a fact that she noted in her diary. Although no one was in the room when the photo was taken, the developed plate showed the faint image of a man seated in one of the chairs. The photograph was shown to a relative of Lord Combermere and it was identified as being the man himself. The problem with this was at the time the photo was taken, Lord Combermere was being buried in a churchyard a few miles away. He had been killed in an accident just five days before! The photo has defied explanation ever since.

In 1911, spirit photography entered the mainstream with the publication of the book Photographing the Invisible by James Coates. It covered dozens of cases of spirit photographs in detail and was later revised and expanded in 1921. It remains one of the most comprehensive books on the subject during this period and it managed to bring spirit photography into the mainstream for the first time. Following the publication of the book, several noteworthy articles appeared on spirit photography, including one by James Hyslop, a Columbia University professor. He wrote an introduction to a series of experiments carried out by Charles Cook of two American spirit photographers, Edward Wyllie of Los Angeles and Alex Martin of Denver. Cook did extensive work with the two men in 1916 and provided them with his own plates and had them developed by a commercial studio. In this way, he eliminated any opportunity that the two men might have had to doctor the images. Cook concluded that the photographs submitted were genuine but in these cases thought the name "psychic photography" better matched the phenomenon. He believed that the two men actually produced the images through some psychical means, rather than actually photographing ghosts.

Despite the failure to debunk a number of the spirit photographs of the time, the reality of the photographs was not accepted by the scientists of the day. As it is today, the majority of them simply refused to examine the data and assumed that fraud was more than adequate to explain the findings. One of the few exceptions was Sir William Crookes, the distinguished chemist and physicist. For 30 years, he was a member of the Royal Society and was known for his discovery of thallium, his studies of photography and other scientific work. At the invitation of several skeptical members of the Royal Society, he agreed to take on a six month study of psychic phenomenon. Instead of just six months though, his work continued for years and he came to the conclusion that much of what he studied (including psychic photographs) was genuine. He presented his findings in both book and article form but soon became discouraged about convincing most of his scientific colleagues of the reality of what he was doing. He endured ridicule and disdain, but never wavered from his beliefs. More than 25 years later, he would maintain that spirit photography could, and did, exist.

As time passed and photographic techniques and equipment became more advanced, researchers began to discover that some of the photographs being taken in allegedly haunted locations could not be explained away as film flaws and tricks of light. Gone were the days of phony photos that were taken by so-called spirit mediums in studios. They had been replaced by often accidental photos that defied all logic.

One of the most convincing photographs was the famous image of the "Brown Lady" of Raynham Hall in Norfolk, England. The photo was taken Captain Provand, a professional photographer, who was taking snapshots of the house for Britains Country Life magazine in September 1936. His assistant, Indre Shira, actually saw the apparition coming down the staircase and directed Provand to take the photo... even though the other man saw nothing at the time. The resulting image (shown here) has been examined by experts many times, although no explanation for it has ever been given.

The Famous Brown Lady Photograph



Another amazing photograph is that of the Greenwich Ghost. This photo was taken in 1966 at Queen’s House, Greenwich, London by Reverend RW Hardy. Although nothing was seen at the time, the developed image clearly shows a shrouded figure, bent over and climbing the stairs. The photo and original negative were examined at length by Kodak and by other photographic experts. They were completely unable to explain the figure and are sure the photo was not double-exposed.


The emergence of modern science in the first half of the 1800's had helped to dispel the superstitions of the past but scientists were unable to connect the mysterious evidence obtained by spirit photography to the progress they were making in other fields. Because of this, most of the investigation and research into the field was carried out by Spiritualists, who believed that far too many of the photographs were genuine, thus validating their often unpopular beliefs. The debunkers of today simply point to the usually ridiculous images that were produced as proof that the entire field was corrupt. As most of us know though, nothing is ever that clear cut when it comes to the paranormal -- nor are answers ever that easily obtained.

http://www.prairieghosts.com/ph_history.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:20:53 pm
rockessence

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Mish'

The astral plane is the receptical of all human detritus, what is not naturally consumed at death. When a human dies all that has been integrated into the whole personality is consumed as a natural consequence. Then there are facets to the personality that are NOT integrated, such as secret loathings of self or others, sexual habits, alcaholism, addictions, hatreds, fears, all of which can be kept separate from the whole personality. These are left "in the ether" as it were...and accumulate in what has been named the "astral plane". There is no Light there, and nothing good, clear, or wholesome to be found there.

It is, however, full of tricksters, lining up to attach to a new "host".

Please realize that all energies of this type will do anything, make any adjustment, to be accepted by a living person.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:21:31 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-21-2005 10:23 PM                       
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Some great old ghost pictures on these links:

http://www.photography-museum.com/believe1.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/photo.html
http://www.photography-museum.com/seance.html
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:22:51 pm
Sandra Taylor

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The Fox Sisters and the Spiritualism Movement

Margaretta and Kate Fox

The Spiritualism movement began with what Allen Kardec termed typtology. Typtology is a mode of spirit communication in which spirits lift and tilt a table during a seance to produce rapping sounds. In organized seances, a number of people would sit around a table, hold hands, concentrate, and ask questions of the spirits. The spirits would then answer their questions through a series of raps, or knocks, similar to someone knocking on a door. In order to question the spirits, sometimes a simple yes or no would be indicated by a prescribed number of knocks. In another method, called alphabetical typtology, letters of the alphabet were recited and when the letter that the spirit wanted to draw attention to was called, a rap could be heard; thus spelling out words, sentences, and so on. Using this method, it was possible to hold lengthy, detailed conversations with the mysterious entities responsible for spirit-rapping.

The first recorded spirit-rapping began in America in 1848 with the playful efforts of Margaretta and Kate Fox to communicate with the spirits of the dead. Much to their astonishment, they succeeded in establishing a ghostly dialogue with the spirit of Charles Haynes. Using rapping noises as its means of communication, Hayne's spirit conveyed the message that he had been killed and buried in the basement of their home. When bones were found in their basement, what had begun as innocent fun became a sensation. From these humble beginnings, what came to be known as the Spiritualism movement took root and grew to international proportions. As a result of their spiritualistic activities, the Fox sisters were condemned and lived in constant danger. They were attacked by religious fanatics in their community, and besieged by angry mobs several times. They were also exploited, and eventually betrayed by their own sister, Leah, who was said to have been the beneficiary of most of the donations collected from those who came to the Fox sisters for spiritual counseling.

As the spiritualism movement got underway in America and Europe, the strange but well-documented manifestations of spirit communication such as spirit-rapping and seance channeling were regarded as weird and unexplainable events. The great majority of Americans and Europeans viewed it as nothing more than a bizarre form of entertainment. For those who took the spirit communications seriously, however, it quickly became apparent that something more was happening. Many of the messages received from the spirits were discovered to be quite accurate. In addition to the messages, other phenomena were being witnessed and verified by many of the most credible individuals in American and European society. By 1854, spirit-directed paranormal phenomenon had reached the level of an intradimensional invasion. Leading spiritualists in the United States decided that it was time to undertake an official investigation. The erudite and well-respected spiritualists petitioned Congress to appoint a scientific commission to investigate the perplexing paranormal phenomenon that had been witnessed by so many people.

The petition entitled 'A Memorial' described the phenomenon produced by the spirits in great detail. The object of the investigation was described in the petition as: 1) an occult force, exhibited in sliding, raising, arresting, holding, suspending, and otherwise disturbing, numerous ponderable bodies, apparently in direct opposition to the acknowledged laws of matter, and altogether transcending the accredited powers of the human mind; 2) lights of various forms and colors, and of different degrees of intensity, which appear in dark rooms, where no substances exist, which are liable to develop a chemical action or phosphorescent illumination, and in the absence of all the means and instruments whereby electricity is generated or combustion produced; 3) sounds which are extremely frequent in their occurrence, widely diversified in their character, and more or less significant in their import; and 4) how the functions of the human body and mind are often and strangely influenced in what appear to be certain abnormal states of the system, and by causes which are neither adequately defined nor understood.

This document was delivered by the former governor of Wisconsin, Nathaniel Tallmadge, to Senator James Shields to be presented before Congress. Much to the consternation of the petitioners, Shields scorned the spiritualists by saying, "the prevalence of this delusion at this age of the world, among any considerable portion of our citizens, must originate, in my opinion, in a defective system of education, or in a partial derangement of the mental faculties, produced by a diseased condition of the physical organization. I cannot, therefore, believe that it prevails to the extent indicated in this petition." Responding to Shield's criticism, Eliab Capron, a chronicler of the spiritualism movement, wrote, "It is not probable that any of the Memorialists expected more favorable treatment than they received. The carpenters and fishermen of this world are the ones to investigate new truths, and make senates and crowns believe and respect them. It is in vain to look for the reception or respect of new truths by men in high places." The widely documented and verified invasion of the spirits described above never received a plausible explanation and is still regarded as a mystery.

In the fifty years that elapsed between the publication of Kardec's books and the incorporation of the Union, the spiritualism movement declined in the United States and Europe. Numerous scandals undermined the credibility of some of its foremost proponents. By 1888, both of the Fox sisters confessed that they were cheats. In fact, both sisters had developed serious drinking problems over the years. At the behest of her sister Leah, Kate Fox's children were taken from her by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, and placed in foster care. This act led to a great deal of bitterness and anger against Leah by both Margaretta and Kate. Feeling exploited and betrayed by their sister Leah, who had collected and spent the great majority of the money paid to them...Margaretta and Kate appeared publicly at the New York Academy of Music. Margaretta confessed that she had made all the rapping noises that fostered the movement by means of a double-jointed big toe. Kate remained silent and would neither confirm nor deny the confession of her sister. It was later learned that a reporter had offered $1,500 to them if they would confess and give him an exclusive on the story. Desperate for money and liquor, the sisters apparently agreed, and then proceeded to drink their earnings away. Margaretta recanted her confession in writing shortly before she died in 1895. Kate never recanted, and died shortly afterwards. Both sisters were buried in pauper's graves.


http://www.livingtruth.net/foxsister.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:28:59 pm
Sandra Taylor

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The Bell Witch

For several years her ghost pinched, slapped, scolded and otherwise tormented a Tennessee family in America's best-known poltergeist case.
Adams, Tennessee, in 1817, was the site of one of the most well-known hauntings in American history – so well known that it eventually caught the attention and then the involvement of a future president of the United States.

Known as The Bell Witch, the strange and often violent poltergeist activity that provoked fear and curiosity in the small farming community has remained unexplained for nearly 200 years, and is the inspiration for many fictional ghost stories, including the recent film, The Blair Witch Project. The facts of The Bell Witch case share little in common with the mythology created for The Blair Witch Project, except they both attracted a great deal of public interest. And because it really happened, The Bell Witch is far scarier.

One early account of The Bell Witch haunting was written in 1886 by historian Albert Virgil Goodpasture in his History of Tennessee. He wrote, in part:

A remarkable occurrence, which attracted wide-spread interest, was connected with the family of John Bell, who settled near what is now Adams Station about 1804. So great was the excitement that people came from hundreds of miles around to witness the manifestations of what was popularly known as the "Bell Witch." This witch was supposed to be some spiritual being having the voice and attributes of a woman. It was invisible to the eye, yet it would hold conversation and even shake hands with certain individuals. The freaks it performed were wonderful and seemingly designed to annoy the family. It would take the sugar from the bowls, spill the milk, take the quilts from the beds, slap and pinch the children, and then laugh at the discomfiture of its victims. At first it was supposed to be a good spirit, but its subsequent acts, together with the curses with which it supplemented its remarks, proved the contrary. A volume might be written concerning the performance of this wonderful being, as they are now described by contemporaries and their descendants. That all this actually occurred will not be disputed, nor will a rational explanation be attempted.

The Vengeful Ghost
What was the Bell Witch? Like most such stories, certain details vary from version to version. But the prevailing account is that it was the spirit of Kate Batts, a mean old neighbor of John Bell who believed she was cheated by him in a land purchase. On her deathbed, she swore that she would haunt John Bell and his descendents. The story is picked up by the Guidebook for Tennessee, published in 1933 by the Federal Government’s Works Project Administration:

Sure enough, tradition says, the Bells were tormented for years by the malicious spirit of Old Kate Batts. John Bell and his favorite daughter Betsy were the principal targets. Toward the other members of the family the witch was either indifferent or, as in the case of Mrs. Bell, friendly. No one ever saw her, but every visitor to the Bell home heard her all too well. Her voice, according to one person who heard it, "spoke at a nerve-racking pitch when displeased, while at other times it sang and spoke in low musical tones.” The spirit of Old Kate led John and Betsy Bell a merry chase. She threw furniture and dishes at them. She pulled their noses, yanked their hair, poked needles into them. She yelled all night to keep them from sleeping, and snatched food from their mouths at mealtime.

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa101399.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:31:31 pm
Sandra Taylor

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The Bell Witch, cont’d

Andrew Jackson Challenges the Witch
So widely spread was the news about The Bell Witch that people came from hundreds of miles around hoping to hear the spirit’s shrill voice or witness a manifestation of its vile temper. When word of the haunting reached Nashville, one of its most famous citizens, General Andrew Jackson, decided to gather a party of friends and journey to Adams to investigate. The General, who had earned his tough reputation in many conflicts with Native Americans, was determined to confront the phenomenon and either expose it as a hoax or send the spirit away. A chapter in M. V. Ingram’s 1894 book, An Authenticated History of the Famous Bell Witch – considered by many to be the best account of the story – is devoted to Jackson’s visit:

Gen. Jackson’s party came from Nashville with a wagon loaded with a tent, provisions, etc., bent on a good time and much fun investi­gating the witch. The men were riding on horseback and were following along in the rear of the wagon as they approached near the place, discussing the matter and planning how they were going to do up the witch. Just then, traveling over a smooth level piece of road, the wagon halted and stuck fast. The driver popped his whip, whooped and shouted to the team, and the horses pulled with all of their might, but could not move the wagon an inch. It was dead stuck as if welded to the earth. Gen. Jackson commanded all men to dismount and put their shoulders to the wheels and give the wagon a push, but all in vain; it was no go. The wheels were then taken off, one at a time, and examined and found to be all right, revolving easily on the axles. Gen. Jackson after a few moments thought, realizing that they were in a fix, threw up his hands exclaiming, “By the eternal, boys, it is the witch.” Then came the sound of a sharp metallic voice from the bushes, saying, “All right General, let the wagon move on, I will see you again to-night.” The men in bewildered astonishment looked in every direction to see if they could discover from whence came the strange voice, but could find no explanation to the mystery. The horses then started unexpectedly of their own accord, and the wagon rolled along as light and smoothly as ever.

According to some versions of the story, Jackson did indeed encounter The Bell Witch that night:

Betsy Bell screamed all night from the pinching and slapping she received from the Witch, and Jackson’s covers were ripped off as quickly as he could put them back on, and he had his entire party of men were slapped, pinched and had their hair pulled by the witch until morning, when Jackson and his men decided to hightail it out of Adams. Jackson was later quoted as saying, "I’d rather fight the British in New Orleans than to have to fight the Bell Witch."

The Death of John Bell
The torment of the Bell house continued for years, culminating in the ghost’s ultimate act of vengeance upon the man she claimed had cheated her: she took responsibility for his death. In October 1820, Bell was struck with an illness while walking to the pigsty of his farm. Some believe that he suffered a stroke, since thereafter he had difficulty speaking and swallowing. In and out of bed for several weeks, his health declined. The Tennessee State University in Nashville, Tennessee, tells this part of the story:

On the morning of December 19, he failed to awake at his regular time. When the family noticed he was sleeping unnaturally, they attempted to arouse him. They discovered Bell was in a stupor and couldn’t be completely awakened. John Jr. went to the medicine cupboard to get his father’s medicine and noticed it was gone with a strange vial in its place. No one claimed to have replaced the medicine with the vial. A doctor was summoned to the house. The witch began taunting that she had place the vial in the medicine cabinet and given Bell a dose of it while he slept. Contents of the vial were tested on a cat and discovered to be highly poisonous. John Bell died on December 20. "Kate" was quiet until after the funeral. After the grave was filled, the witch began singing loudly and joyously. This continued until all friends and family left the grave site.

The Bell Witch left the Bell household in 1821, saying that she would return in seven years time. She made good on her promise and “appeared” at the home of John Bell, Jr. where, it is said, she left him with prophecies of future events, including the Civil War, and World Wars I and II. The ghost said it would reappear 107 years later – in 1935 – but if she did, no one in Adams came forward as a witness to it.

Some claim that the spirit still haunts the area. On the property once owned by the Bells is a cave, which has since become known as The Bell Witch Cave, and many locals claim to have seen strange apparitions at the cave and at other spots on the property.

An Explanation?
A few rational explanations of The Bell Witch phenomena have been offered over the years. The haunting, they say, was a hoax perpetrated by Richard Powell, the schoolteacher of Betsy Bell and Joshua Gardner, with whom Betsy was in love. It seems Powell was deeply in love with the young Betsy and would do anything to destroy her relationship with Gardner. Through a variety of pranks, tricks, and with the help of several accomplices, it is theorized that Powell created all of the “effects” of the ghost to scare Gardner away. Indeed, Gardner was the target of much of the witch’s violent taunting, and he eventually did break up with Betsy and left the area. It has never been satisfactorily explained how Powell achieved all these remarkable effects, including paralyzing Andrew Jackson’s wagon. But he did come out the winner. He married Betsy Bell.

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa101399a.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:34:22 pm
 
unknown

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Sandra

One of my all time favorite supernatural stories, thanks.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:34:50 pm
 
Mish

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  posted 07-22-2005 07:04 AM                       
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Sandra! Wow! I've never heard of the Bell Witch before - me, who studies hauntings! So, thanks for posting!! Andrew Jackson's wife and everything! What a great story. :-)

Now, the Fox sisters I have definately read up on. My gut says that they were telling the truth originally, but recanted because of ugly family politics. When they (or at least Margaretta)admitted it WAS the truth before they died, this of course garnered way less publicity than their admitting to a hoax in the first place. They discreditied themselves, which is shameful when I think they were some of the VERY FEW real mediums out there. Now a days the world is littered with fraud in metaphysical persuits. Just go to E-Bay and see what I mean!! :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:35:28 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:36 AM                       
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The Bell-Witch seems to have many of the ear marks of poltergeist activity case rather than a haunting.

"Into the Unknown"
Readers Digest
pg260

"The word poltergeist comes from German and means "racketing ghost" of "noisy spirit."
It describes disturbances that erupt spontaneously in a household- inexplicable rapping noises, pots and pans that fly through the air, pictures crash to the floor. Through the ages poltegeist activity usually has been attributed to the devil or some malevolent-and noisy-spirit. Since such eruptions typically center on a single living individual, however, some parapsychologists now believe that poltergeist activity is actually an involuntary, or unconscious, form of teleknesis."

Also I may add that they usually involve adolescents also those just entering puberty

"Into the Unknown"
Readers Digest
pg 180-181

The ordeal of the Bell family has been the focus of much study and speculation over the years as an especially rich and complex instance of paranormal activity. For one thing, as Fanck Smyth pointed out "it seems certain that the principle phenomenon did take place," and indeed, they were witnessed by dozens of observers, including may outside the family who were presumably of objective opinions. The witch was extensively "interviewed" by a commitee of god fearing neighbors, and both Betsy and John Bell the primary victims, were examined by the family doctor, who could find no natural cause for their suffering. Betsy was for a while suspected of ventriloquism, but after one occasion when the doctor placed his hand over her mouth while the voice was speaking, the suspician was dropped. In the world of the Bells, a remote rural corner of the bible belt in the early 19th century, there could be but three explanations for the Bell Witch: it had to be a fraud, the devil or a ghost. The consensus of the community was that the Bell Witch was some sort of combination of the last two, an evil visitation against which they had no defense.

In the post-Freudian world in which we live, the most plausible explanation for the disaster that overtook the Bells may well be that suggested by psychoanalyst Nandor Fodor in a book entitled "haunted people." In his study of the Bell case, Fodor noted that the symptoms manifested by Betsy-swooning, fainting, dizzy spells-are those ordinarily expeienced by someone entering a trance, in other words, someone who is leaving her conscious self behind. And he observed that John Bell's ailments-nervous tic, inability to eat or speak, withdrawal from all normal contacts and activity-are commonly associated in modern psychiatric theory with severe feelings of quilt.

Fodor further recalled that the behavior of the witch was capricious, adolescent, human, and that while the witch was almost uniformly malicious, it did act in a kind manner toward one person in the family, the mother, Lucy Bell.

After analyzing these and other elements in the case, Fodor came to a fascinating, if highly speculative, conclusion that the Bell Witch was the expression,possibably through the power of the mind, of Betsy Bell's intense hatred for her father. Such hatred, Fodor theorized, might have been engendered by sexual advances made by the father or by some form of incestuous relationship between the father and daughter. As a result, according to Fodor, Betsy was incapable of dealing with her emotions consciously, and when stirred by the attentions of two suitors, Betsy's personality split into-the split including perhaps, "the girl in the green dress" swinging from the oak tree. Part of her personality then proceeded to attack her father.

Of course, Fodor's version of the original Bell Witch is only psychological conjecture offered a century and a half after the fact, there being no possibility of proving his theory. The subject of ghosts is no easier to resolve. It may be, as many believe that ghosts are simply the distillation into familiar forms of our deepest wishes and fears; they maybe hallucinations, pure and simple they maybe waking dreams; the may be serendipitous electrical reactions; or they maybe the visibl edge of a phenomenon as yet beyond the range of human comprehension. After all, when one realizes how dim an understanding most people have of recently explained phenomenon, such as radio and television waves, it is not difficult to believe the universe may harbor additional secrets as well.

In the end, it matters little to those who have seen ghosts whether others believe in them or not. For those who have seen them, ghostts just are. Long after Robert Graves let it be known that he had seen the ghost of young Private Challoner, he was asked to elaborate on the likelyhood of such an event. His response to the question was at once unexcited and provocative.

"I think," he wrote , "that one should accept ghosts very much as one accepts fire-a more common but equally mysterious phenomenon. What is fire? It is not really an element, not a principle of motion, not a living creature-not even a disease, though a house can catch it from its neighbors. It is an event rather than a thing or a creature. Ghost's similarly, seem to be events rather than things or creatures."

[ 07-22-2005, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:35:57 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 07:51 PM                       
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Mish, glad I introduced you to something new in the realm of the paranormal. The story of the Bell Witch is so compelling that it could easily warrant a topic of it's own. In my view, it's the most incredible haunting ever.

As for the Fox sisters, I sort of want to believe that they were genuine, but it looks like the evidence is stacked against them.

Unknown, the Bell Witch is my favorite ghost story, too. I actually think that there may be something to the modern view that Betsy was abused by her father and the poltergeist was a manifestation of that violence.

More on the Bell Witch and the rest of this later...
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:37:09 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 07:58 PM                       
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Here is something of interest though, the "Bell Witch Cave Photo," showing a ghostly apparition in the mouth of the cave that the Bell Witch is said to haunt:

http://www.prairieghosts.com/chris.html


quote:
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BELL WITCH CAVE PHOTO

This photograph was taken and submitted by Chris Kirby, one of the owners of the Bell Witch Cave near Adams, Tennessee. The cave and the Bell farm has had a very long history of hauntings and strange activity. The story of the haunting at the farm and cave can be found in Troy Taylor's book Season of the Witch.

The photo that appears above was taken near a sinkhole on the Kirby's farm that leads down into the depths of the haunted cave. The cave itself, while formed by water from limestone, is what is referred to by geologists as a "dry cave". This means that the cave, except for during flood seasons, remains relatively dry and does not have the common cave features that are formed by water like stalactites and stalagmites. I mention this to dispel the idea that this might be some kind of mist of wet fog that is emerging from the cave via the sinkhole. Many debunkers, who are ignorant and uninformed of the area and the cave's geology, have tried to dismiss this as mere fog.

This image could not be seen by the naked eye when the photo was taken. Some have suggested that they can see the image of a face inside of the ectoplasmic-like cloud but regardless the source of the "mist" remains unexplained. In 1997, the photo was submitted to the Kodak Laboratories and they had no explanation for it and could find nothing wrong with the film, negative or print that would debunk this image.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:38:36 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 07:58 PM                       
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Hi Sandra
I read the story years ago and it always stuck out in my mind. I don't know but I think that Its where they got the inspiration for the Blair Witch movie.

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:39:08 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:01 PM                       
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Hi Unknown,

Actually, if you compare the Blair Witch with the Bell Witch, the Bell Witch is much creepier! Odd that you mentioned a movie, I think they either have done or will be doing a movie on this case according to the Internet:

http://www.bellwitchthemovie.com/
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:39:29 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:04 PM                       
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Spooky face

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:40:07 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:07 PM                       
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I agree the Bell Witch is much creepier an scary, I hadn't heard about a movie, it would make a great movie if they did it right.

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:40:51 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:15 PM                       
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Here's a website where you can buy the movie! I would want to know a little more about it before I lay good money down for it, though:

http://bellwitchhaunting.com/
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:41:18 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:20 PM                       
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More on the movie:

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?ArticleID=1098


quote:
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Press Release:
“Bell Witch Haunting” Film
www.bellwitchhaunting.com
Contact: Linda Thornton
(615) 264-8999

In Spite Of Mysterious Delays, “Bell Witch Haunting” Is Released

Forget Stephen King’s books, forget the Poltergeist movies, and as far as that goes, forget any ghost story you have ever read or seen on TV or in films. Truth is stranger than fiction. There is a “true” ghost in Tennessee that will put any fictional apparition to shame. It’s called the Bell Witch.

The recent release of the feature film “Bell Witch Haunting” was a great relief to director Ric White and producer Linda Thornton after almost a year-and-a-half of post-production and wondering if the legendary spirit was ever going to let them finish the film. “I was warned by several people not to make a film on the Bell Witch”, said White. “Several production companies have tried over the years and something always happens and the projects are never completed.” That “something” almost ended Willing Hearts Productions’ project when the office where White was editing mysteriously caught on fire in June of 2003. A fax machine that had been on for over two years in the editing suite, suddenly decided to catch on fire one day and burned part of the building. This followed an unexplained fire during the shooting of the film that took the life of the Bell Witch museum curator, who was found with her hand on the front door trying to get out of her burning house. A few months after White’s office burned, another unexplained fire broke out at the Red River Baptist Church (which was depicted in the movie) and part of the historic building was destroyed. Three unexplained fires surrounding the Bell Witch haunting happened within months of filming the movie. White continued to edit at home (after recovering from the fire and losing edited footage), where he began to experience further strange activities. “For several months there was a feeling of being watched, strange foul odors, a turned off cell phone that rang and constant problems with the editing equipment”, White said. “We had to re-edit most of the film several times and had the computer fixed three times in three months; it still would crash, flicker and lock up constantly.”

Many people believe that the Bell Witch, one of America’s most famous entities, still resides in a cave in Adams, Tennessee on what used to be the Bell property. All sorts of strange paranormal activity is said to happen in and around the cave including people hearing voices and children playing, being touched by unseen forces, orbs manifesting and photos and videos either not working properly or picking up strange images. The Bell Witch haunting and cave phenomena have been featured in countless magazine and newspaper articles, books, and on radio and several television shows, most recently a special on Country Music Television called “Most Shocking... Ghost!” that aired in October 2004, which included footage from “Bell Witch Haunting” film.

Following the story of one of the world’s most famous and well documented ghost stories ever, "Bell Witch Haunting" movie is a powerful supernatural historic thriller based on terrifying actual events that took place in Tennessee from 1817 to 1821, in which a spirit tormented John Bell and his family, leaving him in a terrifying fight against the vengeful ghost to save his children and his own life. The haunting is the only known case where a spirit actually took credit for killing someone. After visiting the Bells’ home, future President Andrew Jackson said, "I vow I would rather fight the entire British army single-handed than face the Bell Witch again!"

The haunting started as unexplained noises around the Bell house beginning as scratching and knocking sounds and soon progressed to the sounds of dogs fighting, chains being dragged around and "beating" sounds on the outside walls of their house. It wasn’t long until the children began complaining of more terrifying things--having their bed covers pulled off, being touched and pinched by a seemingly invisible force. Soon, they heard what sounded like faint, whispering voices--too weak to understand--but sounded like a feeble old woman crying or singing hymns. The encounters escalated, and the Bells’ thirteen-year-old daughter, Betsy, began experiencing brutal physical encounters with the entity. It relentlessly pulled her hair, beat and slapped her, often leaving visible prints on her face and body for days at a time.

Quickly, the entity’s voice strengthened; it carried on intelligent conversations, and answered questions from visitors. Although the Spirit tormented many people, including the Bells’ slaves, she seemed to adore Lucy Bell, John’s wife. Over a four year period, hundreds of people spoke with the Spirit and witnessed its wonderful and horrifying demonstrations; and ever so many detectives, wise men, witch doctors and conjurors came to exercise their skills on the Spirit and tried to rid the Bells of their tormentor; all were brought to grief by the Spirit and left confessing the phenomena was beyond comprehension. Yet, those who witnessed the demonstrations knew that it had a wonderful power of intelligence, possessing great knowledge of men and things; a spirit that could apparently read minds, tell men’s secrets, repeat sermons word for word and sing every song in the hymn book. It often assumed a pious character, enjoying religious discussions and quoting scripture with absolute accuracy.

The Spirit often expressed its dislike for "Ol’ Jack Bell" and vowed to kill him. As John Bell’s health grew worse, the Spirit would torture him more severely by relentlessly beating him while he was experiencing seizures. On the morning of December 20, 1820, John Bell took his last breath; and when the family found a small vial of unidentified liquid, the Spirit suddenly spoke up exclaiming, "I gave Ol’ Jack a big dose of that last night, and that fixed him!" John Bell’s funeral was one of the largest ever seen in Robertson County, hundreds of people attended, including the gloating Spirit, who cheerfully offered mourners a concert of brawny drinking songs.

“‘Bell Witch Haunting’ movie is a haunted house adventure that mixes history, a frightful ghost story and a great suspense plot. This true story of terror from an unseen evil is chilling and unforgettable”, said Linda, the film’s producer. “What kind of being was this that was gentle to his wife, but tormented John Bell to his death? Why was it so full of contradictions; kind to some, vengeful to others; angelic at times, demonic at others?” Linda asked. “No one knows, but there seems to be a lot of evidence that something is still around today.”

After several set backs and almost losing the film to the fire, “Bell Witch Haunting” premiered this past summer (2004) and has been shown in theaters in Tennessee and Kentucky. In May of 2004 Willing Hearts Productions signed with Shoreline Entertainment to distribute the film. In September of 2004 sales of the DVD, which includes deleted scenes and behind - the- scenes footage, began on the website www.bellwitchhaunting.com. The film also opened the 2004 Mid-South paranormal convention and some of the footage was used in the October CMT Special. “The response to the film has been phenomenal”, Linda said. “It has been incredibly positive in terms of both turn out for the screenings and reaction to the film. It has been extremely well received.” The movie has received nothing but high praise from Bell Witch enthusiasts. Pat Fitzhugh, Bell Witch author and historian, wrote in his review “Whether you are a Bell Witch expert, novice or armchair historian, I think you will enjoy and learn from “Bell Witch Haunting” film. I highly recommend that you go see it and get the DVD as well - you will probably want to watch it again and again.”

“Was it the Bell Witch or just an amazing set of coincidences, we’ll never know. All I know is it has been a difficult year”, said White. “But with the excitement and enthusiasm we have had over the film, it has been well worth it.” To find out more about the Bell Witch story or order the DVD, you can go on the website www.bellwitchhaunting.com; you can also order the movie by calling (615)264-8999.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:41:37 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:20 PM                       
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Its interesting there having the opening at the Rymann in Nashville. Sounds like there not doing the original story but bringing the Bell Witch in our time.

Kind of disappointing...

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:41:57 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:33 PM                       
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Well, that's Hollywood for you, always looking to make "improvements" upon reality.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:42:18 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:34 PM                       
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Sandra

It sounds cool!
Its not going to be released in theatres?

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:42:38 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:37 PM                       
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Looks like it was only shown in theatres in Tennesseee and Kentucky (summer of 2004), and then went straight to DVD.

Too bad Atlantis Rising can't host movies on it's website. That way, we could all get together and watch, with popcorn, of course.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:43:01 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:39 PM                       
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yah that would be cool
I will have to see if I can find it at block buster. Doesn't sound like it was distributed though.

If you decide to get the movie let me know what you think of it.

[ 07-22-2005, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:43:24 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-22-2005 08:50 PM                       
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I can't afford it right now and imagine I'll have a hard time finding it cheap. I don't like to pay more than ten bucks for a DVD.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:43:43 pm
Heidi Paget

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Rate Member   posted 07-28-2005 10:52 PM                       
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Hi, I have been following the forum for about six months now, and this is the first time I felt the urge to post anything. I lost my father recently and, for me, the grief has been overwhelming. Readng this topic, especially the first few pages, has been really helpful in dealing wuth the grief. Thanks, everybody, you're doing a great job with all the research here.
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Posts: 6 | From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:44:15 pm
Mish

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  posted 07-29-2005 08:00 AM                       
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Rock - Is the astral plane the mystic equivallent of hell then? I personally believe ALL of our energy goes with us since I don't think energy can be good or bad necessarliy and is only labled so by the mind, unless you want to talk ionization.
However, your astral plane does fit neatly into my personal experience with the Ouija. Though, one thing... if "Nicholas" was of the astral plane, why didn't he latch himself to me and come with me after I contacted him at Spring Cottage? I asked him to do this when I moved as I had become sort of attached to seeing the ghosts, and I wanted to see if they could follow. He said he would, but never did. If he were of the astral plane, wouldn't he have lept at the chance to be with me no matter where I was? If he DID attach himself to me back then and just hasn't made himself known since then, how do I explain all my good fortune in life? If I picked up an entity from the astral plane 20 years ago wouldn't my life be riddled with problems??

Oh! Hubby just got up so I'm gunna run and have coffee with him. I'll talk spirit photography soon, Sandra, as I'm attempting some of that myself at the moment....
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:44:36 pm
 
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 07-29-2005 05:40 PM                       
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Heidi, I also just lost my Dad and its is hard,however if you want to go to the string OBE there also a discussion on the topic.
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Posts: 7946 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:44:55 pm
rockessence

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   posted 07-29-2005 07:09 PM                       
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Mish,

This energy which you singled out as "Nicholas" could have been attached to you for many years already, and at some time and place you found a point of recognizable "connection". There may have been an additional energy at the location that brought it forward.

There are so many possibilities. We are really just swinging in the dark with this stuff.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:45:20 pm
rockessence

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   posted 07-29-2005 07:14 PM                       
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Heidi,

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000105

Take a look at this book....

It changed everything for me after my Jack died.

Also, the mineral rose quartz. Hold on to a piece of it when you ar suffering with the pangs of grief, and it is so comforting....

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:45:36 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 09:14 PM                       
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I wish I had some Rocky

Christ

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:45:59 pm
 
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-29-2005 09:57 PM                       
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Are you depressed about something, too, Unknown..?
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:46:23 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 10:20 PM                       
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Hi Jennier

Yes I am depressed, ny mother has been diagnosed with cancer. The wild man in me wants to strike out at everything and everybody.

[ 07-29-2005, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:46:50 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 10:30 PM                       
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please pray for my family and freinds

thanks

[ 07-29-2005, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:47:08 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-29-2005 10:43 PM                       
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Really sorry to hear that, I will be praying for her, and you and your family.
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:47:26 pm
 
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-29-2005 10:45 PM                       
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What kind of cancer, and how advanced is it..?
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:47:50 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:27 PM                       
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Hi Jennifer
I don't know much about it I just found out tonight

[ 07-29-2005, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:48:09 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:30 PM                       
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Jenifer Thank You

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:48:29 pm
Aphrodite

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:36 PM                       
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You have my sympathies, too, Unknown.
Have faith, though, don't lose hope until all hope is exhausted. That is what I believe.

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:48:52 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:38 PM                       
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Thank you Aphrodite

PLease pray for my mother

Thank You

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:49:10 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:44 PM                       
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THANK YOU JENNIFER

You really don't know how much that means to me,

[ 07-29-2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:49:27 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:51 PM                       
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And you need to have a little faith, too. Cancer these days is not a death sentence. They have all sorts of treatments if they catch it early enough...
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:49:46 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-29-2005 11:59 PM                       
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Yes Jennifer you are right
but you don;t know how many of my family have gone out this way

[ 07-30-2005, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:50:06 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:02 AM                       
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Well, it's a shame, but all you can do is pray and have a little faith in things,.

Wish I coulf think of something a little more profound to say...
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:50:26 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:10 AM                       
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I am sorry

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:51:23 pm
 Topic: Communicating with the Dead 
rockessence

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:15 AM                       
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Unk,

I sent you 2 messages.....

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   
 
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000215;p=7


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:51:47 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:16 AM                       
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private?

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:52:06 pm
 
rockessence

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:18 AM                       
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Yes,

When you go to the main board you will see a blinking by your name....

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:52:25 pm
unknown

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   posted 07-30-2005 12:28 AM                       
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Thank You So much Rocky, Luv yah babe

I will make sure my mother gets this...

[ 07-30-2005, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:52:45 pm
Mish

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  posted 07-30-2005 06:17 AM                       
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Unk - I just woke up and read about your mom's cancer. I am so sorry. I will make sure to send all my wishes to you and your family right now. It's no wonder you want to lash out at everything, but you are being nothing but sincere and hurt and are not offending anyone by doing so, so don't be sorry to us for your sadness. Just keep us posted on how she(and you) are doing and if any of us can help in any way. Or yell and scream if you want (can you do that by computer?)... we'll be here for that too if that's what you need, my friend. My best wishes to your mom,and you - Mish
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:53:12 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 07-30-2005 06:36 AM                       
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God bless you unknown, channel all that wild man energy into healing energy.

blessings

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Posts: 10043 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 19, 2008, 03:53:36 pm
Heidi Paget

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Rate Member   posted 07-30-2005 07:42 PM                       
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Sorry about your mom, Unknown, she is in my prayers, too.
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Posts: 6 | From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:55:35 pm
Heidi Paget

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Rate Member   posted 07-30-2005 08:02 PM                       
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From Amazon.com about Journey of Souls by Michael Newton:

One of the most important books you'll ever read!, December 10, 1999
Reviewer: "technobliss" (Reno, NV USA) - See all my reviews
As a reader of hundreds of books on the mystical, the occult, spirituality, etc. (Robert Monroe, Jane Roberts, Castaneda, Tibetan Book of the Dead, Lobsang Rampa, Theosophy, Yogananda, Chuang-Tzu, Dion Fortune, Eckankar, etc., just to give you an idea of what I brought to reading this book), I can only say that I was ASTONISHED by this book. There are so many questions answered here for which I've never gotten satisfactory answers: for example, how suicide affects karma, why humans are so often evil (and what happens to them when they die), what the ultimate goal and purpose of life is (stated everywhere, especially in Christianity) but for some reason this is the first explanation that has made any sense to me. This description of the nature of the universe and our place within it is fully compatible with discoveries in quantum physics, is simultaneously scientific and spiritual. I experienced profound shifts while reading this book- am changed by it. I cannot recommend it enough. If you buy only one book this year, make it this one!

Thanks, Rockessence, I think I will be picking this up.

[ 07-30-2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Heidi Paget ]
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Posts: 6 | From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Nov 2004  | 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:55:56 pm
 
Heidi Paget

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Rate Member   posted 07-30-2005 08:09 PM                       
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Couldn't find the thread on grief in OBE, Docyabut. I am very sorry you lost your father, too. I doubt that the hurt ever really goes away for any of us.
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Posts: 6 | From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:56:16 pm
 
rockessence

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   posted 07-30-2005 08:17 PM                       
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Thanks Heidi,

I underline what he says above..."If you buy only one book this year, make it this one!"

My husband (Jack)and I heard Michael Newton speak on Art Bell about a year before Jack died. For that whole year I remember wishing I knew what the guy's name was so I could find out more. Later on I heard him back on Art's show again and then was able to get his two books.

It changed everything I felt....from the grief over Jack to my perception of my own life and purpose.

Run don't walk, to get Journey of Souls.

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:56:37 pm
Mish

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  posted 07-31-2005 05:39 AM                       
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Heidi - Sorry about your Dad. Also, welcome to the group. I just ordered Journey of the Souls as well since I looked into it and I read the same sort of incredible reviews. It ought to get here in a few days. Thanks for the book tip, Rocky.
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:56:58 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-31-2005 07:37 PM                       
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Unknown, I am sorry about your mom, she will be in my prayers.

Heidi, I lost my father, too, but the one thing losing him has taught me is that we never really lose someone, they are always with us in one form or another. I feel my father watching over me. In fact, if you read earlier in this thread, it was seeing his ghost that started my own quest into the supernatural.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:57:19 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-31-2005 07:39 PM                       
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Rockessence, actually I have never heard of "Journey of Souls" until you brought it up. After reading all the glowing reviews, I'm ordering it, too.

Mish, can't wait to hear about the results of your spirit photography. I would also like to know the conditions with which you're doing it, too!
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:58:03 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-31-2005 07:42 PM                       
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The Borley Rectory

The haunting of the Borley Rectory during the 1920s and 1930s, is undoubtedly one of the most famous in Britain, as well as being one of the most controversial. There seems to be a consensus among many people that the rectory was never really haunted at all, all phenomena being put down to fraud, misinterpreted natural phenomena, and the will of Harry Price to create an interesting case. The wealth of sightings and experiences by independent witnesses, suggests that although much of the phenomena can be explained in rational terms, a percentage remains which can still be seen as inexplicable at the present time.

History
The rectory was built in 1863, on the site of an old Benedictine Monastery for the Reverend H.D.E Bull and his family. In 1892 the Reverend Bull died in the Blue Room. Harry Bull then took over from his father until 1927, when he also passed away in the Blue Room, now with a reputation as the haunted room of the house.

After a year standing empty, the Rev Eric Smith and his wife moved in, and lived there for three years. It was during this time that Harry Price stayed over at the house for three days, as part of his long-term investigations. In October 1930, the Rev L.A Foyster and his wife Marianne moved in, and stayed for 5 years. In 1935 (after the Foysters had moved out) the property was leased to Harry Price for a whole year, the results of which were published in The Most Haunted House in England.

The rectory was gutted by fire in 1939 when the occupier, Captain William Gregson, who had bought the property, accidentally turned over an oil lamp near a bookstand. The fire caught hold quickly destroying the rectory beyond repair. The ruin was finally demolished in 1944.

Ghostly sightings, Legends and Strange Phenomena
From around 1885, there were sightings of a ghostly nun in the grounds of the rectory, and poltergeist activity was observed. According to local lore, the ghostly nun was the spirit of a 13th century nun from a local convent, who had fallen in love with a monk from the local monastery. They were said to have fled from the area in a coach and horses. Captured shortly afterwards, they were brought to swift justice; the monk was hanged, and the nun was walled up inside the convent. It is difficult to say whether this story had been around for a long time, or was a result of sightings during the Reverend Bulls tenancy.

What is certain, is that there are a lot of reports of sightings during the time that H.D.E Bull and his son Harry were in residence. In 1886 a nurse is said to have left because of strange phenomena, possibly phantom footsteps. Around 1900, the two sisters of Harry Bull saw the ghostly nun in the garden during the daytime. Many local people were also witness to the spectre.


Mr and Mrs Edward Cooper, who lived in a cottage near to the rectory saw the ghost, and also witnessed a phantom coach and horses. The Bulls must have taken the strange happenings in their stride, as they were in residence until the death of Harry Bull in the Blue Room in 1927. It must be noted that Harry Bull had jokingly remarked that he would return after his death, and make his presence known by throwing mothballs around, he must have had a good sense of humour. In the year after the reverend's death, in the time when Borley was unoccupied, the ghostly nun was seen several more times by local witnesses.

The next real concentration of reports comes from Eric Smith and his wife. During their short stay they complained of mysterious footsteps, doorbells ringing of their own accord, and phantom stone throwing. In response to this poltergeist phenomena, the reverend phoned the Daily Mirror, who sent along a reporter, and then contacted Harry Price from the SPR. So began his long and controversial association with the rectory.

His first response was to ask permission to stay at the Rectory for a short period of time. While staying there, Price witnessed first hand the poltergeist activity, and is said to have got in touch with a spirit, (The Reverend Bull) while holding a seance in the Blue Room. The phenomena continued and the Smiths, having enough of either the haunting, or the publicity had left by 1930.

The next residents were the Reverend Lionel Foyster, and his wife Marianne Foyster. The strange events within the rectory continued, and the Foysters were witness to poltergeist phenomena, ranging from smashed glasses and stone throwing, to mysterious writing on the walls. Marianne is also said to have been thrown from her bed by a strange force. The strange writing is the most curious part of the phenomena, which defies mistaken identification of natural events, although a rational explanation cannot be ruled out in any circumstance.

The Foysters left after a five-year stay, and Price now got the opportunity to study the rectory in isolation, with a team of different researchers. Price leased the property from June 1937 to 1938, but the results were relatively disappointing in comparison to what had been observed before. An account of the haunting was published by Price in 'The Most Haunted House in England'.

Even after the rectory had burned to the ground, strange events are still said to have occurred, and there has been relatively recent phenomena observed in the Parish Church.

Harry Price died in 1948, and since then many authors have pulled apart his work at the rectory, explaining all recorded phenomena as misinterpreted natural occurrences, hoaxing and hearsay.
For more on Borley check out one of the most informative web sites on the subject at: www.borleyrectory.com

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/hauntings/borley.html

[ 07-31-2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Sandra Taylor ]
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 09:59:44 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 07-31-2005 07:43 PM                       
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BORLEY RECTORY
The History of "The Most Haunted House in England"



The most famous case in the career of Harry Price was undoubtedly that of Borley Rectory, a deteriorating house in Essex.

The tiny parish of Borley is located in a desolate, sparsely populated area near the east coast of England, near the Suffolk border. It is a lonely place and would be largely forgotten if not for the fact that it is the location of what came to be known as “The Most Haunted House in England”.



Harry Price got involved in the case after a newspaper carried a story about a phantom nun at the house in June 1929. Price was asked by the paper to investigate and he was told about various types of phenomena that had been reported there, like phantom footsteps; strange lights; ghostly whispers; a headless man; a girl in white; the sounds of a phantom coach outside; the apparition of the home’s builder, Henry Bull; and of course, the spirit of the nun. This spectral figure was said to drift through the garden with her head bent in sorrow.

Local legend had it that a monastery had once been located on the site and that a 13th century monk and a beautiful young novice were killed while trying to elope from the place. The monk was hanged and his would-be bride was bricked up alive within the walls of her convent. Price scoffed at the idea of such a romantic tale but was intrigued by the phenomena associated with the house.

It would be during his investigations of Borley Rectory that he would become the best-known and most accomplished of the early ghost hunters, setting the standard for those who would follow. Price coined the idea of the “ghost hunter’s kit”; used tape measurers to check the thickness of walls and to search for hidden chambers; perfected the use of still cameras for indoor and outdoor photography; brought in a remote-control motion picture camera; put to use a finger-printing kit; and even used portable telephones for contact between investigators.

Many of Price’s accounts from Borley would be first-hand, as he claimed to see and hear much of the reported phenomena like hearing bells ring, rapping noises and seeing objects that has been moved from one place to another. In addition, he also collected accounts from scores of witnesses and previous tenants of the house, even talking to neighbors and local people who had their own experiences with the rectory.

Even the original tenants of the house, the Rev. Henry Bull family had encountered the spirits. He had become pastor of Borley Church in 1862 and despite local warnings, had built the rectory on a site believed by locals to be haunted. Over the years, Bull’s servants and his daughters were repeatedly unnerved by phantom rappings, unexplained footsteps and the appearance of ghosts. Reverend Bull seemed to regard these events as splendid entertainment and he and his son, Harry, even constructed a summer house on the property where they could enjoy after-dinner cigars and watch for the appearance of the phantom nun who walked nearby.

Harry Bull inherited the rectory and the job as parson when his father died in 1892 and stayed on until his death in 1927. However, Bull’s successor, Rev. Guy Smith, quit the rectory just one year after moving in, plagued by both the ghosts and the house’s deteriorating state.


Marianne Foyster
Until that point, the ghosts at the rectory had been relatively peaceful, but all that would change in October 1930 when Smith was replaced by the Reverend Lionel Foyster and his wife, Marianne. Their time in the house would see a marked increase in the paranormal activity. People were locked out of rooms, household items vanished, windows were broken, furniture was moved, odd sounds were heard and much more.

However, the worst of the incidents seemed to involve Mrs. Foyster, as she was thrown from her bed at night, slapped by invisible hands, forced to dodge heavy objects which flew at her day and night, and was once almost suffocated with a mattress.



Soon after, there began to appear a series of scrawled messages on the walls of the house, written by an unknown hand. They seemed to be pleading with Mrs. Foyster, using phrases like “Marianne, please help get” and “Marianne light mass prayers”.

Because nearly all of the poltergeist-like activity occurred when Mrs. Foyster was present, Price was inclined to attribute it to her unknowing manipulations. However, he did believe in the possibility of the ghostly nun and some of the other reported phenomena. The rectory did not fit into pre-conceived notions of a haunted house, which was one of the reasons that it would go on to gain such a reputation.

Despite the implications of the phenomena centering around Marianne, Price maintained that at least one of the spirits in the house had found the rector’s wife to be sympathetic to its plight. This was the only explanation he could find for the mysterious messages.


The writing on the wall was witnessed by many of the investigators and visitors to the house.


He believed the writings had come from another young woman, one who seemed to be from her references, a Catholic. These clues would later fit well into Price’s theory that the Borley mystery was a terrible tale of murder and betrayal in which the central character was a young nun, although not the one of legend.

The Foysters moved out of the house in 1935 and with the place now empty, Price leased the house for an extended, round-the-clock, one year investigation. He ran an advertisement in the personal column of the Times on May 25, 1937 looking for open-minded researchers to literally “camp out” at the rectory and record any phenomena which took place in their presence. The advertisement read:

“HAUNTED HOUSE: Responsible persons of leisure and intelligence, intrepid, critical, and unbiased, are invited to join rota of observers in a years night and day investigation of alleged haunted house in Home counties. Printed Instructions supplied. Scientific training or ability to operate simple instruments an advantage. House situated in lonely hamlet, so own car is essential. Write Box H.989, The Times, E.C.4”

Price was deluged with potential applicants, most of whom were unsuitable. After choosing more than 40 people, he then printed the first-ever handbook on how to conduct a paranormal investigation. A copy was given to each investigator and it explained what to do when investigating the house, along with what equipment they would need.

During the investigations, the researchers were allowed a wide latitude when it came to searching for facts. Some of them employed their own equipment, others kept precise journals and others turned to séances, which would prove interesting over the period of 1935 to 1939.

During the year that Price leased the rectory, breakthroughs were made in the communications with the spirits. One séance would later give Price the material that he needed to solve (he believed) the mystery of the haunting.

During a sitting with a planchette, an alleged spirit named Marie Lairre related that she had been a nun in France but had left her convent to marry Henry Waldegrave, a member of a wealthy family whose manor home once stood on the site of Borley Rectory. There, her husband had strangled her and had buried her remains in the cellar.

The story went well with the most interesting of the Borley phenomena, namely the reported phantom nun and the written messages. Price theorized that the former nun had been buried in unconsecrated ground and was now doomed to haunt the property seeking rest.


The Rectory after the Fire
In March of 1938, five months after Marie’s first appearance, another spirit promised that the rectory would burn down that night and that the proof of the nun’s murder would be found in the ruins. Borley Rectory did not burn that night, but exactly 11 months later, a new owner, Captain WH Gregson was unpacking books in the library when an oil lamp overturned and started a fire. The blaze quickly spread and the rectory was gutted.


Price took this opportunity to excavate in the cellar of the house and discovered a few fragile bones which turned out to be that of a young woman.... evidence, Price concluded, there was something to the story of the murdered nun. A Christian burial for the bones appeared to provide the ghost with the rest she had long sought and a service was later conducted by the Rev. AC Henning in the small village of Liston, less than two miles from the rectory.



A close-up of the doorway at left


The photos above appeared in LIFE magazine in 1944, during the final demolition of Borley Rectory. The photo on the right is an enlargement from the larger photograph and shows what some claim is a "floating brick", suspended in the air by the spectral occupants of the rectory. Skeptics say that it was merely a brick thrown by a workman that was accidentally captured by the LIFE photographer. What do you think?

The building itself was finally demolished in 1944. However, its legacy still continues today and it retains its reputation as one of the world's most famous haunted houses!

Price wrote about Borley Rectory in two books entitled The Most Haunted House In England (1940) and The End of Borley Rectory (1946).

http://www.prairieghosts.com/brectory.html
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:00:09 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 07-31-2005 09:19 PM                       
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Heidi & Docyabut,

I am really sorry you lost your fathers recently. I lost my dad three years ago and haven't been the same since. Curt has been a replacement, but no one ever loves you unconditionally, like your dad. The world seems so much harder without your parents in it. No real words of advice to offer, except to say that you're not alone, I guess.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:00:41 pm
 
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 08-01-2005 05:50 AM                       
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Unknown, sorry to hear of your Mother`s canser and Heidi, Michele`s your lost. My Dad just died May 31 a few months ago at the local hospital and my hubby as been in the hospitals here and out of town for the last few years, for long periods of time, he`is there now.My daily life has been living at the hospitals you might as well say. In fact rode in the ambulance 3 times in Judy rushing him there and today he will transfer to another one. Its like living on the edge.
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Posts: 8000 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:01:04 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 08-01-2005 05:59 AM                       
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Also the hospital my hubby`s going to today if all the records are in, is the hospital where my Dad`s donated his body. Its going to be hard knowing his body is there somewhere:( but in some way maybe my Dad`s donation could save by hubby.
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Posts: 8000 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:01:24 pm
Mish

Member
Member # 2552

  posted 08-01-2005 06:30 AM                       
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Doc - Wow. You sound like a pretty amazing woman -doin' what you gotta do, and everyone else seems to be holding up under their loses too. I only hope I am as stoic when it's my parents time. I am thinking of you guys...

Sandra - I'm sure some here already know of my obsession with ghosts being 'recordings'? Well, my husband and I are currently trying to access one. The idea being that if we send different sound vibrations (from his cello at the moment)through haunted waters, if we were to hit on a tone that is in resonance with the vibrational waves of the recording (or 'ghost'), the waves become amplified and make it easier to see, or get a photo record, of a manifestation. We have water samples from a local haunted hot springs and we have an amp set up with one sample pan on it, and another sample elsewhere as a 'control'. We send different tones (vibration lengths) through the sample pan of water and take photos at the same instant to log the results. So far nothing but photos of pans of water, but there are lots and lots of frequencies out there still to test! :-)

I laughed to my hubby the other day that it sounds as if I am trying to 'disprove' ghosts or the afterlife by proving they are recordings. Me! Who saw them first hand! I very much believe in something on the other side, but ghosts and hauntings are not considered 'real science', and therefore not worth study, because you can't reproduce results in a lab, you just do a lot of documenting. If someone could figure out how to observe a 'ghost' with regularity, or find one that shows up when asked (or when magnified with sound...:-) - viola'! -ghosts become real science. We'd get a whole lot more questions answered that way! This is my thinking.

Only a crazy-woman who has seen ghosts and then subsequently nabbed a science degree would think up this strangeness, I'm sure, but it drives me and it is fun. I wonder if the ghosts of Spring Cottage know, and approve, with what I'm about these days - since they kinda started it!!Ha!
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:01:43 pm
AtlantisBermuda

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Member # 2619

  posted 08-01-2005 06:36 PM                       
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Communicating with the dead is forbidden! ... Let the dead Rest In Peace!

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Corn Dog

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Posts: 62 | From: San Gabriel, CA | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:02:02 pm
Calvin Noble

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Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 08-01-2005 09:22 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by ATLANTISBERMUDA:
Communicating with the dead is forbidden! ... Let the dead Rest In Peace!
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Amen to that.
And attempting to communicate with the dead is the devil's work and forbidden by the Bible.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:02:23 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

Member
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   posted 08-01-2005 09:42 PM                       
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Mish,

An interesting way to attempt spirit photography, I have never heard of that before. Where did you get the idea yourself? I'll be eager to know what you come up with!

I was thinking the best way to capture a ghost on film would be to go to a place that is known to be haunted with special camera equipment, set it up on a twenty-four hour basis, and then check through it later to see what you've got.

Earlier in this thread was a discussion about the movie "White Noise," where they did the same with sound equipment. Not sure that would work either, but, of course you would have to start with someplace that was haunted.
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:02:44 pm
 
unknown

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   posted 08-02-2005 09:02 AM                       
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Doc

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.
All my prayers and best wishes go out to you and your family
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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:03:06 pm
unknown

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   posted 08-02-2005 09:08 AM                       
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Thanks

Heidi, Ishtar and Sandra thank you for your kind words and prayers.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:03:32 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 08-02-2005 04:36 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Trent:
[QB]
quote:
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The Ouija Board

Most people know this but I want to state a point here. The movie "The Exorcist" was, in fact, based on a true story. The victim though, was a Jesuit boy who, back in the late 40's (if memory serves correctly) began playing with the Ouija Board. He was duped into thinking that who or what he was talking to was a "playmate" and when his invisible friend asked of he could come in and join him, the boy agreed... the invitation the spirit needed to manifest. Over time, the boy became possessed by this spirit and went through numerous exorcisms by the Roman Catholics before finally being freed. Supposedly, the possessing spirit was a devil by the name of Beelzebub who, in theology, is one of the most powerful devils under Lucifer. All this, on historical record, because of a "game".

The Pendulum

To be brief here, the pendulum is, for intent and purpose, the same as the Ouija Board. It's sole function is spirit communication but is far less common nowadays than the ouija board. Like the name suggests, the only major difference between the two is the pointing device used. While the ouija board uses a planchette, normally a triangular shaped device with a crystal, glass, or plastic windows to display the letter to be annotated, the pendulum uses a pointed weight at the end of a line, acting as a pendulum would, to point to the letter of interest. The letters and numbers are often configured differently than a ouija board but in functionality, it's all the same. As with the ouija board, the outcome varies according to the actual intent of the user.

Automatic Writing and Channeling

Of all the various forms of spirit communication, I would consider automatic writing and "channeling" the most potentially dangerous forms. What is channeling? Channeling is, in effect, possession. It's possession with a purpose. Channeling in performed by a person who typically, has good natural psychic abilities. The goal behind channeling is to allow a foreign spirit to actually possess, or take over, the receptor for the purpose of direct verbal or written communication and on rare occasions, in demonology aspects, to enable a direct exorcism of the foreign spirit. What is Automatic Writing? "True" automatic writing is, in most aspects, the same as channeling. The receptor allows a foreign spirit to enter him or her to enable it to directly write out its thoughts or comments. Neither channeling or automatic writing should ever take place without experienced supervision, because it is actually a form of possession, someone should always be available to help should anything go wrong. At times however, either of these can happen spontaneously to an inexperienced psychic who has not learned how to "shut down" when their gifts are not needed.

Séances

There is one huge difference between the ouija board and a séance... a séance is designed around one basic fact... the invitation. A person using a ouija board does not necessarily invite anything initially, they typically ask if "anyone" is present. The séance's purpose is to invite a spirit. That can prove to be very dangerous. I highly recommend to anyone who insists on conducting séances, that they have a good psychic in the group, who will be able to determine the TRUE nature of the spirit, if one actually manifests. If the group were to invite, either knowingly or not, a negative, inhuman spirit, they may have started a process they would have never dreamed possible, the infestation, haunting, and torment of one or all of the people involved. What I find most often is, sadly, most people conducting séances do not take their action seriously enough, expecting to have a good time and go home when their done. Most of the time that IS the case but unfortunately not always.

Crystallomancy

Crystallomancy is the staring into a glass window, pool of water, mirror, or any other shiny, transparent, or reflective object to induce self-hypnosis (staring into the fire of a fireplace or candle has the same effect). The famous scenes of the gypsy staring into her crystal ball for the answers to all your questions and telling you your future. Many people believe that by inducing self-hypnosis by any means of crystallomancy, they are putting themselves on the same level as the spirits and are able to communicate or receive information directly to or from them. Another form of this is called the psychomanthium, where the person enters a dark room or closet (or the like) lit only by dim red lights and sits directly in from of a mirror. This method often is used to summon or contact darker forms of spirits.

On the opposite side of the coin, instead of a person staring into a window or the like, you will often find pictures on the internet or on television where a ghost or apparition is seen in a window, as if looking out of it. This is the same type of effect, in reverse. "Mirror, mirror on the wall..." remember that?
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OK - there are much simpler ways to achieve such communication, and there are also a set of ethics that go along with it. Communication between the worlds is not a parlour game.
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:03:55 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 08-02-2005 08:03 PM                       
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So what is a simpler way to contact the dead, Allison?

And what ethics..?
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:04:17 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-02-2005 08:18 PM                       
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Jennifer,

What is ultimately contacted is not "the dead", meaning a whole personality of some one specific that has passed over. What comes through are "remnants of energies" of some one who has died without a coherent and whole personality. Those left over energies are parts of a personality that the person never integrated properly.....deviance, addiction, that type of thing. These energies will tell you ANYTHING you want to hear, so you will think it is what you want.

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:04:49 pm
 
Heidi Paget

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Rate Member   posted 08-02-2005 09:00 PM                       
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Thanks for welcoming me to the group, Mish, I have been reading about your encounters with ghosts and like your posts a lot.

Rockessence, I ordered "Journey of Souls", it should be here in a couple of days. Is there practical guidance in it about dealing with grief, too?

Sandra, I read about your experiences with your father and also like your posts a lot. I feel really bad for you, it's awful to lose your father, but at least you turned your experience into a positive thing.

Docyabut, I've been reading about what you have been going through this month and my heart really goes out to you. I wish I could think of something more meaningful to say to make you feel better.
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Posts: 6 | From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Nov 2004
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:05:22 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-03-2005 02:26 AM                       
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Heidi,

Not so much in that context, but enabling one to realize the structure, the big picture of our sojurns in human existance.

Also to realize that you and your "soul-partners", those that you are close to in life, are part of a group or circle of souls that are interconnected life after life, and af course, between lives. You help one another to move forward, or provide the opportunity for soul-growth. That sometimes means adversarial relationships! Sometimes a soul-partner is in contact with us for only a short time, enough to lead us or push us to open or close a door, or to turn a corner.

I highly recommend the use of rose quartz for the sadness of grief....Holding it in the hand when needed, or wearing a bead of it touching the skin.

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:05:50 pm
Mish

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  posted 08-03-2005 07:09 AM                       
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Guys - Keep your fire and brimstone in your pockets. I am STUDYING the phenomenon of ghost apparitions, not inviting them over for tea.

Sandra - I was just out the other day doing the kind of documenting you spoke of. There have been two sightings in a nearby cemetery of a young boy with no shoes on. This cemetery is out in the middle of nowhere and covered in prickers and sagebrush, so it doesn't make sense a young boy would be there, shoeless much less. I was there yesterday taking tape and photos, just to see... haven't had them developed yet though.

So you reckon I am going to hell for this, eh everyone? I bet people in history have thrown that threat at a lot of people with 'new' ideas. The Salem witch trials come to mind.... :-)

BTW, there is a gorgeous old church that hangs right over my backyard. If my husband finds a pair of my shoes, empty and smoking in the backyard, I'll make sure to have him let you know.
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:06:17 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 08-03-2005 06:52 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by rockessence:
Jennifer,

What is ultimately contacted is not "the dead", meaning a whole personality of some one specific that has passed over. What comes through are "remnants of energies" of some one who has died without a coherent and whole personality. Those left over energies are parts of a personality that the person never integrated properly.....deviance, addiction, that type of thing. These energies will tell you ANYTHING you want to hear, so you will think it is what you want.
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BINGO!   :)

And by simpler ways, I do not mean all of this Madame Moonbeam Gypsy Lee necromancer **** - more like astral travel, dreams, ASC's where one does not "summon" these spirits/energies to ask a bunch of bulls**t questions - one just walks among them on their own plane in a non-invasive way, experiencing the energy. Not as glamourous as the movies I know, but there is really nothing glamourous at all about any of these sort of things - it's all about just blending in with the universe and co-existing with it.
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:06:41 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-03-2005 08:43 PM                       
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Hey there's going to be a Ghost Hunter's Conference in my town! Beautiful Port Townsend WA Nov. 11-13

See information below...

[ 08-03-2005, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:07:08 pm
unknown

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   posted 08-03-2005 08:59 PM                       
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"If there's strange in your neighborhood"
oh you know rest...

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:07:36 pm
Aries, God of War

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   posted 08-03-2005 10:15 PM                       
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All kidding aside, there is NO danger in contacting the dead.

What are the dead? Disembodied souls, lost spirits, people who haven't passed on, in other words...US!!

How would you like it if someone blew you off?

Give them some respect, people!!

And on the third day, he rose again from the dead/

Jesus was dead, too, should his disciples have not talked to him, too? Your lord and savior, Jesus Christ?

Let's get our priorities straight here, people!!
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Posts: 110 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:08:19 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 08-03-2005 10:23 PM                       
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Aries, you have a vested interest in making us want to communicate with the dead, since you told us you're one of them, too...
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:08:48 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-03-2005 11:35 PM                       
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Port Townsend Leader-Wednesday, August 03, 2005

Ghost hunters conference here in November

By Patrick J. Sullivan
Leader Staff Writer


This photo was taken last year at the Commander's House at Fort Worden State Park. Tomasina Doran of Seattle Ghost Investigations, who said Fort Worden is definitely a "haunted" place, believes this photo represents paranormal activity. Photo courtesy of Tomasina Doran, Seattle Ghost Investigations

Ghost hunters are looking for Port Townsend stories prior to the third annual Pacific Northwest Ghost Hunters Conference, Nov. 11-13 at Fort Worden State Park.

About 300 people are expected to register for the conference sponsored by the Amateur Ghost Hunters of Seattle-Tacoma (AGHOST). It's the first time the conference has been staged outside of Seattle.

"Given the rich history, legend and beautiful Victorian buildings – elements lending themselves to stories of ghosts, haunted locations and unexplained mysteries – it comes as no surprise that the largest and most technologically advanced ghost-hunting group in the Pacific Northwest has chosen Port Townsend as the location for its third annual Ghost Hunting Conference," said Joe Teeples, organization vice president.

AGHOST conducts paranormal research using basic investigative tools such as cameras (35 mm and digital), audio and video recording devices, Geiger counters and electromagnetic field indicators, as well as computerized surveillance equipment and infrared motion sensor cameras.

AGHOST does not charge for its services. Members also appreciate that not everyone living in a "haunted" building wants to be researched.

"We are very sensitive to those who do not want to be bothered with ghostly investigations, and we respect privacy," Teeples said.

Share stories

AGHOST does want to hear from property owners or visitors regarding any haunting.

"We'll research them, and if people want us to do an investigation, we do have open schedules between now and then," Teeples said. Ideally, one or two local stories could be investigated for conference review.

Reports should include the location of the incident, a brief description of the incident, and a point of contact that investigators can make to obtain more information.

"Interest is picking up in Port Townsend, and folks are starting to open up about their ghostly experiences," Teeples said after a recent visit.

Fort Worden

Fort Worden has various stories of mysterious noises and more, from the JFK Building to Officers' Row, Alexander's Castle to NCO Row. Manresa Castle is on the list and hosts the conference-opening event Nov. 11. Manresa and Palace Hotel are offering a discount to conference registrants.

"If you ask if they have any ghost stories, the front office manager will show you the file that has been kept for years with details of ghostly occurrences," Teeples said of The Palace. "As recently as June 2005, a visitor walking down the main stairway felt 'something brush against the back of my neck,' and when photographs were taken they revealed the presence of orbs in that area."

Cemetery 101

More details on how to register for the "Ghost Hunters Getaway" can be found at www.aghost.us, or call Ross Allison at 253-203-4383. The educational weekend costs $50 to cover expenses. The schedule includes:

• Nov. 11 (7 p.m.) Meet with featured guest Tamara Thorne, author/ghost hunter, at Manresa Castle.

• Nov. 12 (9 a.m.-11 p.m.) Classes, lectures and seminars in the USO Building at Fort Worden. Classes include Electronic Voice Phenomenon, Spirit Photography, Our Strange Death, Ghost Pets, Contacting The Dead, and Ghost Hunting 101.

• Nov. 13 (11 a.m.-10 p.m.) Tours around town. Subjects include This Haunted Fort, Cemetery 101, Military Cemetery 101, and Haunted Port Townsend.

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:09:13 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 08-05-2005 05:22 PM                       
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Ghost Hunters Conference...............LOL!!! That's too stupid to be true. The shame of it is that they are actually serious. So........what kind of equipment or weapons do these "ghost hunters" use? And what do they do with their bounty? Oh please..............these kind of things are for people who really have nothing better to do.
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:09:43 pm
Allison
Member
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   posted 08-05-2005 05:24 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Aries, God of War:
All kidding aside, there is NO danger in contacting the dead.

What are the dead? Disembodied souls, lost spirits, people who haven't passed on, in other words...US!!

How would you like it if someone blew you off?

Give them some respect, people!!

And on the third day, he rose again from the dead/

Jesus was dead, too, should his disciples have not talked to him, too? Your lord and savior, Jesus Christ?

Let's get our priorities straight here, people!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is not necessary for one to "talk" - as in verbalise - in order to communicate with these energies.   ;)
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:10:30 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 08-06-2005 12:08 AM                       
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Mish, don't let what people say affect you. We both know you're doing interesting work and that this is an important field of study. Life after death is the biggest mystery after God, or how the universe was formed. I'd like to hear more about the little boy's spirit when there's more to tell.

Some of you may have heard of Resurrection Mary, those of you in Illinois most definitely have. I'm enclosing an article about the Chicago area's most famous ghost. What is most significant about this article (if you follow the link), is that there are photographs of the bars on the cemetery gate that the ghost was said to have grasped that are discolored and bent.


quote:
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Ghost Research Society
Resurrection Mary


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"Resurrection Mary" is undoubtedly Chicago's most famous ghost. This blonde-hair, blue-eyed beauty has been seen since the latter 1930s. According to legend, she had went to a dance at the O'Henry Ballroom which is now called the Willowbrook, 8900 Archer Avenue and apparently got into an argument with her boyfriend. She then began to hitchhike down Archer Ave. and somewhere between the Willowbrook and the main gates of Resurrection Cemetery, 7600 Archer Ave. she was struck and killed by a hit and run driver. Soon after this, people began to see a girl in a long white dress and blond hair hitchhiking for rides along Archer Ave.


The very first, first-person account came from Jerry Palus, a south-side man who recently died. He picked up a girl at the Liberty Grove and Hall near 47th and Mozart and danced with her the entire evening. The only strange thing is that she was very cold to the touch. Later she asked for a ride home which was somewhere in the Bridgeport area of Chicago but decided she'd like to go for a ride past the large Catholic cemetery along Archer Avenue, Resurrection. As they began to approach the main gates, she began to act very strangely. She told Jerry to pull the car off the road and, for some reason, she had to run toward the cemetery and that Jerry could not follow. Before he knew what was happening, she darted from the car, ran towards the main gates but disappeared before reaching those gates in plain view of Jerry. He then began to put all of this together and surmised that he had been with a ghost that evening. On a later visit to the home of Mary, he was greeted by a woman who told him that her daughter had been dead for sometime. He even saw a picture of her sitting on a table and was convinced that she was the same girl he had been with. However, that was impossible!

Reprinted from the Suburban Trib, January 31, 1979 and written by Bill Geist: "It was Thursday night - would have been two weeks ago - and I was lost, basically," says Ralph , a cab driver.

"I'd dropped this big spender way the hell down in Palos Heights or Hills or someplace like that and was trying to make my way back to the tollway. I'd just turned on to Archer, down there where it's still a lonely road, especially at midnight.

"And there she was. She was standing there with no coat on by the entrance to this little shopping center. No coat! And it was one of those real cold ones, too.

"She didn't put out her thumb or nothing like that. She just looked at my cab. Of course, I stopped. I figured maybe she had car trouble or something.

"She hopped right in the front seat. She had on this fancy kind of white dress, like she'd just been to a wedding or something, and those new kind of disco-type shoes, with the straps and that.

"She was a looker. A blond. I didn't have ideas or like that; she was young enough to be my daughter - 21 tops.

"I asked her where she was going and she said she had to get home. I asked her what was wrong, if she'd had car trouble or what but she really didn't answer me. She was fuzzy. Maybe she'd had a couple of drinks or something or was just tired. I don't know.

"Oh, the only thing she did say really was 'The snow came early this year' or 'The snows came early this year' or like that. Other than that she just nodded when I asked sometimes if we were supposed to just keep going up Archer. She was just looking out the window at the snow and the trees and that. Her mind was a million miles away. Maybe she smoked something or something. Who knows?

"A couple miles up Archer there, she jumped with a start like a horse and said 'Here! Here!' I hit the brakes.


"I looked around and didn't see no kind of house. 'Where?' I said. And then she sticks out her arm and points across the road to my left and says 'There!'

"And that's when it happened.

"I looked to my left, like this, at this little shack. And when I turned she was gone.

"Vanished!

"And the car door never opened. May the good Lord strike me dead, it never opened."

I hope Ralph is reading this, because I've learned since talking with him that there's a simple explanation for what happened.

He was understandably upset - and not just about being stiffed for the fare - both when he told me the story over the phone and when he repeated it in person.

He wouldn't tell me his last name. He wouldn't give me his telephone number or let me see the car he was going to leave in. "You might trace my phone or my plates and put my name in the paper and make me look like a maniac or an idiot," he said. "No way. I'll call you."

He says he is not an idiot or a maniac, but rather "a typical 52-year-old working guy, a veteran, father, Little League baseball coach, churchgoer, the whole shot."

This simple explanation, Ralph is that you picked up the Chicago area's preeminent ghost: Resurrection Mary. All you have to do to accept this explanation and start resting easy is to start believing in ghosts - something you seem reluctant to do.

I hadn't heard of her either when we talked. But Resurrection Mary is a legend and has been one - particularly in the Polish neighborhoods on the Southwest side and southwest suburbs of Chicago - for about 40 years. There have been numerous reported encounters with her in that time.

The ballroom was closed Friday, January 12, and for about two weeks thereafter, owing to the blizzard. But Thursday the 11th it was open until midnight, an estimated ten minutes before Ralph says he picked up his gowned hitchhiker three blocks north.

It was a special night in the ballroom: a single night, for those without escorts to come and dance the waltz and the foxtrot just the way they did here for 40 years.

In May of 1978, in a slightly different type of encounter a young couple, Shawn and Jerry were driving down Archer when suddenly they saw a girl running across the road in front of them. Jerry yelled at her husband, Shawn, "Watch out for that woman!" He later related how he hit the brakes but knew it was too late and that he was going to strike the woman with the right front bumper of the car. As they braced for the impact, he saw the car cut right through the image and the image rapidly melting away; just a soft blur on the side of the road before completely disappearing.

On Tuesday night, August 10, 1976, the Justice Police Department received a phone call from a man who stated that he was driving past the cemetery gates when he saw a girl apparently locked in. It was going on 10:30 PM when SGT. Pat Homa of the Justice Police got there at the scene. He looked for the girl flash with his spotlight and then calling out on his loud-speaker but to no avail.


However, in shining his flashlight around the gates, he discovered that two of the bars has been bent apart. Imbedded in the metal, as he looked closely, were the impressions of hand-prints and skin texture. On the surface of the green patina of the bronze were scorch marks which looked, for all the world, like skin texture.

The marks were shown to various metallurgists, copper and bronze experts but nobody could explain how those bars could have been bent. Shortly after the first of the year, 1977, the bars were blow-torched by the cemetery. They attempted to blowtorch the marks off the bars and although they burned off the scorch marks, they could not obliterate the marks that were imbedded into the metal. More people came out to see those bars so about a week before Halloween the bars were hacksawed out by the cemetery and were hidden by the cemetery officials in an attempt to keep people from coming out to see those marks.

The cemetery denies this story emphatically. They claim that the bars were bent when a front-end loader truck backed into the gates while doing sewer work and in an attempt to straighten the bars by first blowtorching them to soften them a bit and then grabbing the bars with an asphestos glove which, according to the cemetery, made the hand-marks.

The Resurrection Mausoleum is also apparently haunted; the taped organ music, alarm system and lights go on and off by themselves. Several occasions while circling the cemetery on my Excursions Into The Unknown bus tours the lights have apparently all came on by themselves even though no human being was in the building at the time. A maintenance worker who was on my tour one evening experienced that phenomena and after the tour met with me and told me that that was not possible.

On October 10, 1979 there was a massive blackout in and along Archer Avenue but only in Justice. Commonwealth Edison and the police were riding around in the cemetery shining their light in the mausoleum because it was determined that the blackout was centered in the mausoleum in the middle of the night.

On August 12, 1976, just two days after the bars were discovered bent, a Cook County squad car investigating a CB radio call, an emergency call, about a hit and run victim. A woman lying face down on the side of the cemetery frontage. The squad pulled up to the intersection of 76th and Roberts Road to find a girl in her 1965 Mustang, CB microphone still in her hands in tears. They asked the girl , where the body was that she had just reported on the side of the road? The girl said that just as the squad turned on 79th Street to come in her direction, the body on the side of the road disappeared.

A man going to work about 2:30 am had just passed Chet's Lounge on his way to Argo Cornstarch when he saw a body of a woman lying right in front of the gates. He stopped his pickup truck to look at the young lady lying in the street. She was still alive, so he went straight to the police station, got the ambulance and came right back. However, the body was gone! The impression where the body was lying was still there though.

The last weekend in August (29th, 30th and 31st ) in 1980 between Friday night and Sunday morning, she was seen by dozens of people. Many who called the Justice Police to report they had just seen her. Squad cars were dispatched and although the police did not see her, they did find a number of people, many who flagged down the squad car to report what they had just seen.

On September 7th, 1980, Claire Lopez Rudznicki was traveling with her boyfriend and two other friends. Sunday morning, they were down at the racetrack and had stopped for a pizza and were coming home just after one in the morning. They were driving south, southwesterly down Archer Avenue when they spotted a girl walking on the grass on the right-hand side of the road. Instantly three of the group said, "It's Resurrection Mary!" Claire covered her head in fear because she really thought it was a ghost. The three people who did look as the car passed this figure all aglow got a real shock when they saw the girl had no face. Just a black hole or void where the face would have been.

September 5, 1980 was apparently a very good and a very remarkable happening occurred to a south side man. Tony K. is a non-believer and was driving south on Archer after leaving a softball game on that Friday night. As he passed the Red Barrel Restaurant on Archer near Kolmar he saw a girl standing on the side of the road with a white dress. He stopped the car and asked the girl if she wanted a lift. The girl said sure and got in and asked him to take her down Archer. He tried to draw her into conversation but it was no good. Every question was answered with, "Just take me down Archer." He said to her, "You look like Resurrection Mary but I know there's no such thing as Resurrection Mary." The ghost wouldn't be drawn into that conversation at all. He tried to get her to at Chet's Lounge. He asked her if she'd like a drink. From the stoplight at 63rd and Archer until he got past the main gates of the cemetery, his foot never left the gas pedal. He was going 45 MPH. He mad one last attempt to get the girl who was in the car to his right when suddenly she was no longer there. He hadn't stopped and was going 45 MPH.

On October 23, 1980, four people spotted what appeared to be Resurrection Mary walking through the main gates on the right-hand side.

Resurrection Mary has been, in earlier years, as far away as Harlem Avenue. Just before Christmas of 1980 she was seen dancing down the street, down Archer, east of Harlem. The two young men who saw her were instantly aware that there was something very unusual taking place. They stood and watched this girl dance by them, and they got the strangest sensation. There were other people walking by who didn't even notice the girl. The fellows ran home and told their father what they had seen. They never heard of Resurrection Mary but their father recognized her by the description they provided. A week before this sighting, Mary had been seen dancing around the fence of the cemetery.

The deacon of the Greek Church on Archer has also seen her on August 29, 30 & 31 or 1980. His story was investigated by the Valley Times, a newspaper published in Lyons.

A woman who tends bar at Johnny's Route 83, located on Rt. 83 across from 107th Street. She's been working there for four weeks at the time. Her first Friday night after work, she's driving down Archer and she's in the woods just south of where Saints and Sinners used to be when she sees, on the right-hand side of the road, a blond in a white dress. She hits the brakes, turns and no more girl. Over the weekend, there were four people who saw Mary on the 2022nd of May of 1983.

A Brookfield man named Nick was returning home early Sunday morning on August 13thof 1980 along Archer en route from the Holy Cross Hellenic Church where he had been working at the church's annual picnic. When he reached the main gates of the cemetery, he noticed a black object up the road out of view of his headlights.

Between the gates and the mausoleum he said his headlights hit the figure and it was a girl in a long flowing white dress. "She walked right up to the end of the road," Nick said, "then she just walked right into the middle of my lane. I could see her clearly. She was walking very slowly and I took my foot off the pedal and the car began to slow."

Nick guessed that he was traveling around thirty-five miles an hour and estimates that the figure was in his sight for roughly 10 seconds.

"She walked to the median strip, hesitated for a minute, and that's when I passed her. She had her palms kind of turned up and I don't think she was wearing any shoes. I thought at first it was a kid, pulling a prank. But it was so dark, so desolate. Nobody else was on the road. She just walked right out there in the middle, a short-haired blond girl, with this flowing white dress, her hands outstretched like that. It was creepy!"

Some believe that the ghost is that of Mary Bregovy. A young girl who died March 10, 1934 not along Archer Avenue but in downtown Chicago, has short black hair not blond and whose grave is in a section that the cemetery says was bulldozed a number of years ago because of drainage problems. Convenient stories or the truth. I'll let the reader decide.

Resurrection Cemetery is located at 7600 S. Archer Ave. in Justice, Illinois.
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http://www.ghostresearch.org/sites/resurrection/
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:11:08 pm
Aries, God of War

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   posted 08-07-2005 12:14 AM                       
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quote:
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It is not necessary for one to "talk" - as in verbalise - in order to communicate with these energies.
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Damn right, Allison, the dead are all around you, whether you want them to be or not.
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Posts: 110 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Apr 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:12:25 pm
Aries, God of War

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   posted 08-07-2005 12:15 AM                       
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Hmm, haven't seen Mish for a few days, hope she hasn't been attacked by any ghosts...
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Posts: 110 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:12:56 pm
Europa

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   posted 08-07-2005 12:49 AM                       
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Scientist Claims Proof Of Afterlife
Research Finds Accuracy Of Mediums Channeling Dead People
UPDATED: 10:19 AM EST March 4, 2004

From: http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2893543/detail.html

CLEVELAND -- What happens after we die -- do we continue on or is this life the end?

Many of us hope there is an afterlife, and now some Arizona scientists say they have proof through their afterlife experiments.

There are many people who say they have died and come back to life. They claim to have experienced an afterlife, even if for only a short time.

Scientists at The University of Arizona have done extensive research, and say that they have the proof that when we die we continue to live beyond our physical bodies.

"Almost anyone who sees the data says there's something real here," said one of the researchers.

Allison Dubois is a spiritual medium, or someone thought to be able to communicate with the dead.

Christine Vettore was brought in for a reading with Dubois, who attempted to contact Vettore's dead relatives.

"I'm hopeful that there's an afterlife so I can see everybody I've lost already," said Vettore.

It doesn't take long -- within seconds, Dubois says Vettore's daughter is coming through.

It is a gift Dubois says she's had her whole life, but it comes with a lot of criticism.

"I think there are some people that are Charlatans, and with any profession there's going to be some bad apples, so I mean that just goes with the territory, so the ones that are accurate and are legitimate just have to prove themselves," said Dubois.

This reading is part of a science experiment -- Dr. Gary Schwartz, of the University of Arizona, is observing.

The Harvard-trained doctor looked for what he calls hits and misses, or the accuracy of the reading.

He's building on his hypothesis that there is life after death, and that mediums can talk to those who have died. After Vettore's daughter is contacted, Dubois contacted Vettore's brother and mother. She is able nail facts, giving details about the relations that she could not have known beforehand.

For instance, Dubois tells Vettore that her mother knows there's a carrot cake and a bowl of peanuts in her house.

"None of those things do I ever have in my house. I have those things in my house this month, carrot cake and peanuts, so that was weird," said Vettore.

The accuracy is amazing to Vettore, because she had never met or talked to Dubois before. She said Dubois was accurate in 80 to 90 percent of everything she said.

Skeptics say that Dubois is just guessing, but Schwartz says it is impossible for someone to guess and be that accurate.

For the past seven years, he has been testing mediums and other things tied to death, using science to explain what happens when we leave our physical bodies.

"Saying that this is against the grain with academia sort of puts it mildly," said Schwartz.

Schwartz has done multiple experiments under very controlled conditions. One of the most intriguing studies included five of the most respected mediums in the world, hooked up to monitors and computers.

In the experiment, 10 people were read by the five mediums. In lab conditions, a medium sat down with an individual and there would be a divider between them.

When that medium finished, the next would come in, until all five mediums had given a reading for the individual.

Schwartz and his staff would then compare the readings. They were astonished to find that in most cases, the mediums would bring through the same people and the same messages, with an 80-90 percent accuracy rate.

"There are so many people that are going to try to find holes in what we've done … there is not a hole to find when we agree, or get a final protocol done," said Schwartz.

The scientists call their findings survival of consciousness -- meaning our physical bodies die, but we continue on.

The research continues with studies that include near-death survivors.

Schwartz says near-death experience research completely dovetails and supports what's coming from the mediums.

He says he will continue his research, and that the data doesn't lie.

"When you look at the totality of the data from our laboratory, the simplest explanation is actually that survival of consciousness is real," said Schwartz.


http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Afterlife/scientist_claims_proof.htm
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Posts: 424 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:16:22 pm
 
Europa

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   posted 08-07-2005 01:01 AM                       
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The Nature of Ghosts
From: http://www.mysticalblaze.com/GhostsNature.htm

Although ghosts and apparitions have been reported for thousands of years, surprisingly little information is available with regard to their nature or essence. Ghosts are an elusive and unpredictable, and the ways in which they manifest are surprisingly diverse. Contrary to popular belief, most ghostly encounters are not visual, but rather consist of noises, smells, sensations, voices, cold spots, electrical disturbances such as lights switching off or on, and displacement or movement of objects. Much of the available data is anecdotal and is therefore prone to exaggeration, embellishment, and sometimes outright deceit.

Although studies suggest that approximately 1 in 10 of us has the ability to perceive ghosts, those of us who are actively looking for them are apparently the least likely to have a ghostly experience. Children seem more apt to experience manifestations, suggesting that adults develop some kind of blocking mechanism as they mature. Women seem more attuned than men, and it appears that the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to experience ghostly phenomena.

So where does this leave us? Below are five interesting theories to consider regarding the basics of ghostly manifestations......

Theory #1:
Ghosts are the earthbound souls of the deceased.
This is the most common interpretation when confronted with a visible apparition, and it certainly does fit many hauntings where the apparition is more or less recognizable as someone who is deceased. For most of us, this theory is also comforting, as it hints at a life after the physical body is gone.

One common example of this type of manifestation is when an individual suddenly becomes aware of the death of a loved one through one or more senses. This type of occurrence is often visual, but may just be a sudden "feeling" as if relayed telepathically, or may even come in the form of a vivid dream. Typically, this type of manifestation relays important information to the observer.

We know from science that everything is composed of energy. Our thoughts, feelings, sensations, experiences, and indeed our very souls are all forms of energy. The theory is that when the physical body dies, this energy continues on in some form and can be tapped by living persons sensitive enough to perceive it. Animals seem to be quite sensitive to this type of energy, and many very reliable reports of them avoiding certain rooms, chasing unseen prey, or sitting contently as if being stroked and petted have been recorded throughout history - another indication that this type of phenomena is quite interactive.

Theory #2:
Events are somehow recorded in certain surroundings to be replayed over and over to living people sensitive enough to discern them.
This theory accounts for a lot of our ghost legends and is likely the source for virtually all hauntings that repeat again and again, such as the many "lady in white" sightings and ghostly battle reenactments. These apparitions are often visual, but sounds and smells are common too. The catalyst that starts the recording is usually very emotional or violent, such as a war or a mother losing a child. These apparitions never interact with the observer or acknowledge the presence of the observer in any way. They are reported as walking through walls or just disappearing into thin air, and they do not appear to be conducive to photography, though EVP recordings are occasionally successful.

Although most concur that these types of apparitions do appear to be "recorded" somehow in the surroundings, there is disagreement on how exactly we as observers perceive these recordings. One side postulates that it is something within the observer that sets the recording in motion, and that the recording thus "plays inside our heads." The other side postulates that the recording is being played externally for all to see, but that only those with the right "antenna" can experience it.

Thus, as frightening as this type of manifestation may be, the apparition is not a thinking entity, nor does it have a will or a purpose, and it is no more of a threat to the observer than watching a character on a television show.

Theory #3:
Apparitions are created from some type of naturally-occurring electrical, magnetic, or electromagnetic condition.
Many serious paranormal researchers believe that measurable properties such as electricity or magnetism play a part in why we experience ghostly encounters. Equipment for detecting anomalies in atmospheric, electrical, and magnetic conditions for the purposes of detecting paranormal activity is big business these days.

Many different variations on this theme have been postulated through time, likely originating with the "feelings" reported by observers in the vicinity of paranormal phenomena. Feelings of "magnetism" are often reported, as are sensations that the hair is "standing on end," a common occurrence around fields of high electricity. Temperature fluctuations have become the litmus test for detecting activity, as have vague feelings of the area being "energized" by some unknown process.

Many different theories regarding how naturally-occurring elements may interact to allow for paranormal phenomena have been offered, and include exotic theories ranging from energy emitted from earth ley lines, natural geologic fault lines creating bursts of energy, or some kind of natural vibration or earth harmonic.

One of the few things we do know for sure is that paranormal phenomena is more likely to be experienced at night, and sure enough, there is an scientific explanation for why this may be. In short, the earth is covered by a fluctuating membrane we all know as the atmosphere, which is constantly being bombarded by a strong solar wind from the sun. During the day, this membrane is at its thinnest and densest because it is being directly hit by the solar wind. However, at night, when sheltered from the sun, it expands much farther into space and has much less resistance (see illustration below). This explains why television and radio stations come in better at night, and why you can tune into stations much farther away than is possible during the day.


Therefore, the reason we see more paranormal activity at night is because there is much less resistance to every kind of magnetic and electrical current or force, making it easier for energy-based manifestations to appear. Indeed, the best time to go on ghost hunts is widely believed to be between 9 pm and 3 am, with midnight being optimal. For these same reasons, since ancient times, total eclipses of the sun have been the source of many legends and tales of paranormal occurrences.

Anyone who has ever gone on a ghost hunt has likely realized before too long that ghosts can be annoyingly camera shy, and the explanation for this may very well be related to the above discussion of electricity and magnetism. It stands to reason that if paranormal occurrences are energy-based, the arrival on the scene of man-made energy-based devices may put a kink in the environment needed for the apparition to appear. Even a battery-operated digital camera, voice recorder, or flashlight may put out enough energy to disrupt the natural energy of an area, to the chagrin of ghost hunters everywhere. This might explain why as a whole we are remarkably unsuccessful at capturing verifiable ghosts on film.

Theory #4:
Ghosts are actual beings living in one or more parallel dimensions.
The concept of a parallel universe is a fairly complex one. To put it simply, this theory suggests that there are one or more (perhaps an infinite number) of complete universes co-existing with us on a plane we are generally not aware of. Picture a lot of soap bubbles all floating around in a room. Each soap bubble contains an entire unique universe, and though there are hundreds of bubbles in the air, each is independent of all the others. Occasionally, two bubbles will collide and stick together, creating a passageway between the two universes.

Any type of spectral appearance, sight, sound, or anomaly can fit into the theory of parallel dimensions. Thus, when we see an apparition, especially one seemingly from another time and place, it could be that we getting a rare glimpse into another dimension or reality and we are seeing events develop in that plane of existence.

Interestingly, it is also theorized that each of us even have parallel selves living on different planes in different stages of development and that we may be aware of them at times on a subconscious level. Obviously, this theory is just that - a theory - but it is a particularly tantalizing one, and hopefully we we progress technologically, more scientific light will be shed on this topic. For more information in this same vein, please see Other Dimensions.

Theory #5:
Ghosts exist only as figments of our imaginations.
This theory can be made to apply to every kind of paranormal manifestation there is, and in some cases, it is probably at least in part correct. Medical studies have proven that when certain parts of the brain are stimulated, various perceptions are disturbed, such as visual, auditory, and tactile functions. Various external stimuli such as very low frequency sound waves and high fields of electricity can cause hallucinatory experiences that for the subject are indistinguishable from reality.

Indeed, schizophrenics often relate seeing, hearing, and even talking to very real entities that nobody else can see or hear, but medical science thus far has not found the cause for this. Are they really seeing things that nobody else can see or hear? The consensus seems to be no - it is "all in their heads" due to an unknown short circuit in the make-up of their brains, but nobody really knows for sure. Further study in this particular type of mental disorder may eventually shed light on some areas of the paranormal. However, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered by this theory, such as when more than one person sees the same phenomena. Skeptics use the term "mass hysteria" for situations like this, but nobody has offered an explanation for the core catalyst causing many brains to suddenly go haywire.

Obviously, this theory needs a lot of work, but it will probably be among the first to be proven or disproven by science. Time will tell....

http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/nature_of_ghosts.htm
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Posts: 424 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:16:55 pm
Mish

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  posted 08-07-2005 07:21 AM                       
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Europa - Killer posts! I love the bit about people who see ghosts normally having a low IQ!!I'm in trouble!!! :-) Hillarious!!! :-)

Here's a new thought guys... Unknown brought up auras to me recently and explained a bit about what they were, and it got me thinking... I was told years ago that I had a really big, purple aura. Unknown told me this is supposed to mean I am a very spiritual person. What I am wondering is if since reading an aura with K(?)-photos is like measuring a persons 'energy field', what if certain colors corresponded with certain frequencies (like since I am purple, I would be a high freqency person) and that frequency is what is needed to amplify the ghost frequency. Maybe this could mean that other 'purple' people (HA!) could also access the ghost visions I had if they were at the same house. Maybe my siblings are of a different vibrational frequency, and thereby colour, and hence did not amplify the 'ghosts' the way I did naturally, so therefore did not see them like I did. Hmmmm.

Do any of you know anything about auras and that Kirilian (????) photography that lets them photograph the human aura? Do auras change over time or are they always the same - like a fingerprint? Maybe there is a correlation with people who 'see ghosts' or experience visions like I did having a specific frequency they vibrate at that is in harmony with the recording or ghost and thereby magnifies it to manifestation. Any thoughts?

Oh, BTW, I love ressurection Mary too. She is a ghost that really gets me because she moves around and dances with people! So much for my recording theory with her!!! :-)

And Aries, thanks for missing me. No ghosts have gotten me......yet. Heh-heh! :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:17:39 pm
 
Europa

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   posted 08-07-2005 08:02 PM                       
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I'd say that part about people seeing ghosts is just a matter of coincidence, Mish, I don't personally believe that, rather, that they are more in tune with the afterlife than some of the rest of us.
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Posts: 424 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:18:06 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 08-14-2005 06:32 PM                       
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I was thinking of starting a second topic on ghost stories, but don't want it to be a quickie. Anyone here game? It would be sort of along the lines of our Halloween theme!
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:18:51 pm
unknown

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   posted 08-14-2005 08:26 PM                       
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Sounds like a good idea to me Jennie.

[ 08-14-2005, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]
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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:19:19 pm
 
ronjonesponciau
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Rate Member   posted 08-14-2005 08:31 PM                       
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I have been fascinated by the toos and fros on the Ghost interpretations - so much research and intellectual overload my brain aches. To gain knowledge you must experience first hand - its OK reading about things - they merely point to understanding and do not reinforce belief.There is confusion between 'Ghost' and ' Spirit. Spirit is part of each human soul and continues to exist as an intelligent being after the demise of the physical body . It can rarely be seen with physical eyes and is seen through spiritual eyes or psyche. It can communicate with the 'medium ' through sight , sound and feeling.
A Ghost does not have this abilty to communicate and in my experience goes through a programme of activities that it did in physical life. I lean very much to the theory of residual energy for this phenomenon and that surroundings 'record' events ,particularly strong emotions, and can release these events in certain circumstances as a replay which can be detected by physical senses.Psychic ability takes a long time to develope (I started development 24 years ago )and still have a long long way to go.
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Posts: 2 | From: North Wales UK | Registered: Aug 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:19:47 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 08-14-2005 08:35 PM                       
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Welcome to the forum, Rnjonesponciau, if you are into ghost hunting here, you are in good company.

Have you ever seen a ghost yourself?

Jennie, sounds like a good idea to me, too...you mean as in collecting ghost stories..?
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:20:17 pm
Pagan

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   posted 08-14-2005 09:04 PM                       
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I'm all for a discussion on ghost stories, in fact, you can start one on STD's here, too, and I'll be sure to participate in that one too!  ;)

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☼The Pagan ☼
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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:20:39 pm
 
Mish

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  posted 08-15-2005 07:32 AM                       
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Jennie - You guys KNOW I'm all for any more ghosty threads! :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:21:03 pm
 
ronjonesponciau
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Rate Member   posted 08-15-2005 07:42 AM                       
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Hi Jennie - many thanks for the welcome -I hope to join in with as many discussions as possible.I have seen two ghosts in my life and also witnessed two materialisations , one in a formal seance and one in an area of strong spirit presence. I will compile a full account shortly for posting.
Great to meet you
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Posts: 2 | From: North Wales UK | Registered: Aug 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:21:25 pm
Mish

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  posted 08-22-2005 06:00 AM                       
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Ron - Please do! I personally would be really interested to hear someone else's first hand account of a ghost experience!! Are you a practicing psychic or a medium of some sort? I ask because you said you've been working on it for 24 years...

Nice to meet you, too. :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:21:48 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 09-10-2005 04:38 AM                       
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Gee, we haven't seen Mish, Trent or Sandra around here lately either. Hope they weren't all attacked by ghosts, like Aries said. This thread was one of the ones that most peaked my interest...
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:22:15 pm
Pagan

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   posted 09-18-2005 10:09 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by ronjonesponciau:
Hi Jennie - many thanks for the welcome -I hope to join in with as many discussions as possible.I have seen two ghosts in my life and also witnessed two materialisations , one in a formal seance and one in an area of strong spirit presence. I will compile a full account shortly for posting.
Great to meet you
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Hi there, Ronjonesponciau! I don't know about everybody else, but I'd sure like to hear a little more about your ghost sightings! We are really into the supernatural around here, in case you didn't notice!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:22:54 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 09-26-2005 09:50 PM                       
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GHOSTS OF THE PRAIRIE

History & Hauntings of America

Amityville:
Horror or Hoax?
A Look at this Classic Case
by Troy Taylor


There seems to be little doubt that one of the most famous American hauntings to ever be documented occurred in the quiet town of Amityville, New York, a peaceful enclave on Long Island’s south shore. There stands no other case from the latter part of the 20th Century that so captured the imagination of the general public... and no other case that filled us with such fear.



I was barely a teenager when the sensational book by Jay Anson, “The Amityville Horror”, was released. I will never forget snatching up a copy from a local bookstore, only to read it and then re-read it again. Could such things really happen? Could ghosts destroy a family the way that evil spirits did George and Kathy Lutz? Could a ghost force someone to kill, as demonic entities caused Ronald DeFeo to murder his entire family?

And most terrifying of all.... could the American public be so easily deceived into believing the events chronicled in the book were actually real? The answer to that question is a resounding “yes” as is proven by the fact that many people still believe in the veracity of “The Amityville Horror”, one of the greatest paranormal hoaxes of all time!

But how did it all begin? How could we all be fooled so easily? And what events led up to the release of the book? To answer those inquiries, we have to go back to November 1974 and understand the true events that occurred in the house on Ocean Avenue.

The horrific carnage that prefaced the story of the “Amityville Horror” began one dark fall night in 1974. The DeFeos, Ronald Sr. and Louise, their two young sons, Mark and John, and two daughters, Dawn and Allison, were sleeping peacefully in their comfortable, three-story, Dutch Colonial home in Amityville. The silence of the house was shattered when Ronald DeFeo murdered his parents and his siblings with a high-powered rifle. One by one, he killed each of them as they slept, although strangely, the sound of the gunshots never awakened the other family members.


Ronald DeFeo Jr.
DeFeo blamed the massacre on the malevolent force of an evil spirit that was present in the house. He stated that the creature began speaking to him and controlled him while he committed the murders. Not surprisingly, he pleaded insanity at his trial. The prosecutor countered the plea by stating that DeFeo was not crazy at all, but merely trying to cash in on his parent’s substantial life insurance polices. Again though, we are left with an unanswered question.. how could DeFeo have thought that he would get away with the murders and in turn, collect on the insurance policies?

Regardless, the jury ignored DeFeo’s claims and found him guilty of six counts of first-degree murder. State Supreme Court Justice Thomas M. Stark sentenced him to 150 years in prison.


The tragedy in Amityville made grim local news but few outside of New York ever heard about the house until some time later. The horrendous events that followed began on December 18, 1975, when a young couple named George and Kathy Lutz bought the house on Ocean Avenue for $80,000. Just a week before Christmas, they moved into their new “dream home” with Kathy’s three children from a previous marriage. They would later claim that the “dream home” soon became a nightmare!

Almost from the moment that they moved into the house, the Lutz family would insist they noticed an unearthly presence in the place. They began to hear mysterious noises that they could not account for. Locked windows and doors would inexplicably open and close, as if by invisible hands. George Lutz, a sturdy former Marine, claimed to be plagued by the sound of a phantom brass band that would march back and forth through the house. When a Catholic priest entered the house, after agreeing to exorcize it, an eerie, disembodied voice told him to “get out”.
After the aborted exorcism, the events began to intensify. The thumping and scratching sounds grew worse, a devilish creature was seen outside the windows at night, George Lutz was seemingly “possessed” by an evil spirit and green slime even oozed from the walls and ceiling. The family was further terrified by ghostly apparitions of hooded figures, clouds of flies that appeared from nowhere, cold chills, personality changes, sickly odors, objects moving about on their own, the repeated disconnection of their telephone service and communication between the youngest Lutz child and a devilish pig that she called “Jodie”. Kathy Lutz reported that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands and that one night, she was literally levitated up off the bed.
George and Kathy Lutz


The family managed to hold out for 28 days before they gathered up their possessions and fled from the house. According to their story, they left so quickly that they didn’t take their furniture or many of their other possessions with them. The demonic spirits, they said, had driven them from their home!

And then, things started to get really scary....

In February 1976, not long after the Lutz family left the house, local residents were stunned to see New York Channel 5’s news team doing a life news feed from the house on Ocean Avenue. The news crew filmed a seance that was being conducted and a dramatic investigation of the place conducted by Ed and Lorraine Warren, two of America’ most famous “demonologists”. The Amityville house would soon become the center of a three-ring circus!

For those not familiar with the Warrens, Lorraine claims to be a clairvoyant and a trance medium who is said to have the uncanny ability to contact the spirit world. On the other hand, her husband Ed, purports to be an expert on hauntings and exorcism. From the 1950’s through the 1980’s, the Warrens, who are based in Connecticut, were recognized as authorities when it came to ghosts and demons. While they are still active today, their methods have been replaced by more scientific standards of investigation. Regardless, in 1976, their stamp of approval on the events reported at Amityville caught the attention of a nation.

The Warrens went to the house for the first time in February and while supposedly George Lutz refused to accompany them, he did loan them a key. The Warrens stated that they found old newspapers around the house and that the refrigerator was still stocked with food. It was obvious to them, they said, that the Lutz family had left in a hurry. The Warrens brought two other psychics with them to the house to conduct their seance. They later reported that they “sensed” an “unearthly presence” in the house and Ed Warren also claimed to experience heart palpitations that he blamed on the occult forces. The house was haunted, they said, by the angry spirits of Indians who had once inhabited the area and by “inhuman spirits”. The story was that the Shinnecock Indians had used that very parcel of land as a place where sick and insane members of the tribe were isolated until they died. They did not bury the dead there however because they supposedly believed the land was “infested with demons”.


For God's Sake... what was Rod Steiger thinking??
Not long after, the George and Kathy Lutz teamed up with a writer named Jay Anson and together, they authored what would become a best-selling book called “The Amityville Horror”. The book would then go on to spawn a bad movie and a number (of even worse sequels) and not surprisingly, the Warrens were hired by producer Dino de Laurentis and the production company to serve as consultants about the supernatural occurrences portrayed in the film. They also made the rounds of the talk show circuit, discussing the horrifying events in Amityville.

The “Amityville Horror” grew from news reports and newspaper articles to books, magazines and television. The story would become internationally known and around the world, people recognized the name of Amityville. Most amazing was the fact that this terrifying story was absolutely true... or so it read in bold print on the cover of the phenomenally selling book. But not everyone was convinced, even in paranormal circles. In fact, a few of them smelled something bad in Amityville!


One of those was a paranormal investigator from New York named Dr. Stephen Kaplan. George Lutz had approached him in early 1976 about conducting an investigation of the house on Ocean Avenue. At that time, Kaplan was the executive director of the Parapsychology Institute of America, based on Long Island. He received a phone call from Lutz on February 16 and wanted the society to investigate the house for supernatural activity. He asked about a fee for the group’s services and Kaplan told him that they did not charge for the investigation but that “if the story is a hoax...the public will know”. A few days later, Lutz called and cancelled the investigation. He claimed that he and his wife did not want any publicity about the house. This may have been why the Channel 5 news story came as such a surprise to Kaplan and his colleagues a few days later!

As the story of the “Amityville Horror” was becoming an international sensation, Kaplan was at work collecting evidence and materials about the house and the claims made by the Lutz family, Jay Anson, the Warrens and the media. Although convinced of the validity of the paranormal and supernatural activity, Kaplan was not convinced of the truth behind the Amityville case. While it was possible that a haunting could have occurred at the house, especially in light of the violent events that had taken place there, there was something not quite right about the accounts of the Lutz’s. After some initial investigation, Kaplan became sure that a hoax was being perpetrated on the public and such a hoax could prove to be damaging for legitimate paranormal cases in the future. With that in mind, he became determined to show that the entire story was a farce.

Little did he know that he would face an uphill battle, not only against the Warrens, but against the general public as well. By this time, the Warrens had become too firmly entrenched to back out of the case. They continued to resolutely support the Lutz claims of the house being haunted, or possessed, by evil forces. They began their own campaign to try and discredit Stephen Kaplan, especially after his untimely death a number of years later. To this day, in spite of confessions and in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the Warrens still maintain that the house was haunted.

The general public had been so force-fed the story by the media, that Kaplan’s evidence against the house being haunted seemed to fall on deaf ears. Thanks to the fact that the truth was not as glamorous or as dramatic as the original story, the new story was scarcely reported and was barely noticed at first. In fact, Kaplan’s diaries of the investigations were turned into a book that did not get published for many years after the events took place. The problem remained that the public loved the story and the house on Ocean Avenue became a Long Island landmark. People traveled from all over the country to drive past and stare at it. Tourists made it their first stop on Long Island and locals soon began calling the sightseers the “Amityville Horribles”. The trouble with curiosity seekers and complaints from locals were so bad in the late 1970’s that they drove one Amityville police chief into early retirement!

Kaplan had discovered that the “Amityville Horror” was pure invention. In 1979, a lawyer named William Weber confessed to his part in the hoax during a paranormal radio show hosted by author Joel Martin. Weber had been the lawyer for convicted killer Ronald DeFeo and he admitted that he and George Lutz had concocted the story of the haunting over a few bottles of wine. Weber’s motive was to get a new trial for DeFeo, using a “Devil made him do it” defense. According to Weber, Lutz merely wanted to get out from under a mortgage that he couldn’t afford. His business was in trouble and he needed a scheme to bail him out.

Kaplan found ample proof, outside of the glaring confession, that the story was a hoax. He gained access to the house on many occasions and found that the so-called “Red Room”, where the book claimed occult ceremonies took place, was nothing more than a small pipe well that gave access to them if they needed to be repaired. No “demonic face” had ever appeared on the bricks inside of the fireplace. He also noted that the original front door of the house (blown off its hinges in the book) was still in place and intact. In addition, he found a writer for the local newspaper that had also been suspicious of the story. After some searching, the columnist discovered that the Lutz’s had returned the day after “fleeing” from the house to hold a garage sale. He also charged that during their “28-day nightmare” that never once called the police for assistance, something that would have been commonly done under the circumstances. The list of things that did not happen in the house went on and on and to Kaplan (and to most everyone who listened to his rational arguments), the evidence for an “Amityville Hoax” was overwhelming.

Jim and Barbara Cromarty, who later moved into the house, also maintained that it was not haunted. Because of the problems they had experienced with the curiosity-seekers, they sued the hardcover and paperback publishers of the “Amityville Horror”, as well as Jay Anson and George and Kathy Lutz. They stated that the entire case had been a put-on from the beginning and it had “blighted their lives”. The suit was later settled with the new occupants for an undisclosed amount.

This, along with the publication of “The Amityville Horror Conspiracy” by Stephen Kaplan, should have put an end to the case, but it did not. In fact, more than two decades later, people still often question the facts behind the case and the real events that may, or may not, have occurred in Amityville. Today, most researchers concede that the story was mostly, if not entirely, fabricated. To the general public though, the truth remains much more of a shadowy thing and some theorists who believe that there are still things about the story that do not add up will point to a string of tragedies that surround the case.


- Paul Hoffman, the writer who penned the original story for newspapers and for “Good Housekeeping” magazine, died a few years after the story broke under mysterious circumstances.

- Jay Anson, author of the best-selling book, made a fortune from the story but died shortly after he received his first million dollar advance for his next book. That book, an occult novel entitled “666“, was a failure.

- Demonologist Ed Warren, suffered a heart attack a few years after his initial investigations of Amityville. He maintained the illness was caused by the house.

- David Cromarty, the son of the house’s new owners, died an early, tragic death. He used the bedroom that had once belonged to Ronald DeFeo for several years.

- Dr. Stephen Kaplan, who took on the hoaxers, almost died from a major heart attack in 1976 and then passed away several years later. His death was untimely and cut short a distinguished career. He would not live to see his book on the case published.

Some would say that the house “got them” but others would admit that these events are nothing more than strange coincidences that have been arranged to look like something they most likely are not. To this author, they are a perfect example of this entire case as a whole... a blending of fact with fiction in an attempt to titillate and terrify the American public.

Sources:
The Amityville Horror by Jay Anson (1977)
The Amityville Horror Conspiracy by Dr. Stephen Kaplan (1995)
ESP, Hauntings and Poltergeists by Loyd Auerbach (1986)
The Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits by Rosemary Ellen Guiley (2000)
True Tales of the Unknown: Beyond Reality by Sharon Jarvis (1991)
The Encyclopedia of Ghosts by Daniel Cohen (1984)


(C) Copyright 2001 by Troy Taylor. All Rights Reserved.

Ghosts of the Prairie Home Page

http://www.prairieghosts.com/amityville.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:24:04 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 09-26-2005 09:52 PM                       
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The Warrens Investigate: The Amityville Horror



Note: This article contains some of the only photos ever taken inside this house.
There are more in the photo gallery.

Ed and Lorraine Warren’s most famous case by far is their investigation of the home which was the subject of The Amityville Horror. The Warrens were 2 of 9 people who investigated the home. Even now, 24 years later, the Amityville investigation is their most requested lecture topic. We’ve included some photos here on the website, but to see the most shocking, revealing, and interesting photographs, you’ll need to attend one of the Warrens’ many lectures.

Over the years, rumors have abounded which claim to prove the Amityville case a fraud. How these rumors started and how they became so ubiquitous is unclear; what is clear is that the Warrens saw the house for themselves, and experienced some of the phenomena which occurred. They have photographs and reports which show remarkable proof of the existence of very remarkable phenomena in that house.

It’s believed that the hoax rumor began with a man who called himself Dr. Steven Kaplan, although he held no doctorate degree from any university. This fact was exposed on several occasions, yet that never stopped Mr. Kaplan from making these claims. He was the self-proclaimed president of the Parapsychology Society of Long Island and some other related societies, presumably founded by himself. As far as the Warrens can tell, he hated them because Mr. Lutz, the owner of the Amityville Horror home called Mr. Kaplan prior to calling the Warrens, and asked him to investigate the situation. Mr. Kaplan came to the home to “investigate” with 6 witches and the Channel 7 news team, and Mr. Lutz threw Mr. Kaplan off the property---and then called the Warrens. This started a 20 year vendetta of Mr. Kaplan against the Warrens.

The basic claims of Mr. Kaplan insisting Amityville to be a hoax were discussed with Ed Warren and Mr. Kaplan on a Long Island radio show. Kaplan insisted that Amityville was a hoax because Jay Anson’s book, The Amityville Horror, has some inconsistencies in it, and it was not 100% accurate. The Warrens felt that Mr. Anson’s book was not 100% accurate as well, but only because Mr. Anson was unfamiliar with the terms of art of the field of demonology, not because of any purposeful error on his or Mr. Lutz’s part. Apparently Mr. Kaplan simply could not let go of the idea that he had ruined his chance to become involved in what may be the world’s most famous paranormal investigation, and therefore started the rumor that it was all a hoax.

Mr. Kaplan wrote a book concerning the Amityville story, called The Amityville Conspiracy, and one week before the book was published he died from a heart attack. The book contains far more contradictions and mis-stated facts than The Amityville Horror by Jay Anson. Kaplan was never even inside of the Amityville house (except to attend a party--not as part of an investigation), despite his claims to the contrary.

Kaplan nevertheless swore that he had photographs and investigative materials. Ed Warren offered him $5000 to show him the hoax evidence, yet Kaplan declined. When Ed Warren asked how Kaplan had conducted his investigation, Kaplan couldn’t even specify what equipment he’d used. Somehow, he managed to lie his way out of every possible detail.

Ultimately, a Babylon, NY radio station made Mr. Kaplan apologize to the Warrens because they’d uncovered that Kaplan had fabricated the hoax rumor. Kaplan said on the radio program, “I will never go against the Warrens again.” Given his health, he was never able to try, although his apology was short- lived.

The Warrens found that Mr. Lutz’s descriptions of the paranormal activity in the home were very accurate for a case of demonic possession, although the Lutz’s had never studied demonology--they would not have know how to fabricate the story that they told.

But why is the hoax story so popular? Part of the reason was that the chief of police’s son was a newspaper reporter, and the police hoped to get vandals out of the area--since the story had broken, the traffic in the area had been nonstop. An erroneous story was printed in Newsday about how the Amityville case was a hoax, and that helped to perpetuate the hoax myth.

But who would have profited from fabricating such a story? The Lutzes received little or no money from the books and movies. Jay Anson, the author of The Amityville Horror surely profited from his book, but it seems that no one else did. Another rumor persists that the Lutz’s lawyer, Attorney Webber, fabricated the story with them over several bottles of wine. Truth be told, the Lutzes didn’t drink and had only a bottle of blessed wine in the house given to them by Father Pecoraro. Rumor has it that Webber wanted to write his own book, but Jay Anson simply beat him to it.

Jay Anson, author of The Amityville Horror had a heart attack while he was writing the last chapter of the book. He recovered from this heart attack but had a second, fatal heart attack while writing his second book “666” on the anti-Christ. These are only two of the many “coincidences” that plague the Amityville story.

What follows is a short version of the Warrens’ own story about their Amityville investigation. This was compiled from their oral history taken during a NESPR meeting in October, 1997 (these classes are open to the public--details on how and where to attend are included elsewhere in this web site) We’ve included it here to help dispel the rumors that Amityville was a hoax. The New England Society for Psychic Research strongly believes that only through dissemination of accurate information concerning paranormal activity can the public be informed that such activity really exists--and that evil is among us. It is not until the public understands that this is so that we can begin to combat such forces in our midst. As long as fraud stories persist, and as long as people who experience real such trauma are ridiculed, Satan and evil forces can continue to do their work here on earth. It is only through information and understanding that good can prevail.

History of the property: The property was used as a sort of insane asylum for Native Americans who were sick and dying. There had been an enclosure on the property, where the patients were housed. Inhuman spirits revel in such suffering and are able to infest the graves of those who were buried in unconsecrated ground.

Background: The problems at the Amityville house seemed to stem from the Ronald DeFeo murders on November 13, 1974. Mr. DeFeo hated his father and had plotted to kill him--he’d even worked out a scheme by which he could do so. Mr. DeFeo was on drugs, and his father knew about it. Later he said that there was a shadow ghost alongside of him during the killings which compelled him to shoot his two brothers and his sister at 3:15 am on November 13, 1974. Although the houses in this quiet Amityville neighborhood were only 40 feet apart, no neighbors awoke during the shootings. All of the victims were found on their stomachs. The Warrens believe that the victims were in a state of phantomania, which in effect paralyzed them, making them unable to cry out for help.

How the Warrens became involved: Ed and Lorraine Warren met with a priest, Father Pecararo, and the Lutzes when they were first called in to investigate. The Lutzes were living at Mrs. Lutz’s mother’s house in Deer Park, NY because they were too afraid to go back to the house to live. They were all but afraid to even speak of the phenomena, so deep was their fear. They’d even left all of their furniture and possessions behind, not daring to return to move out--it simply wasn’t worth the risk.

The first time the Warrens went to the house it was with an anchorman from the Channel 5 news, a professor from Duke University, and the president of the American Society for Psychic Research. That first day was horrifying. Lorraine received nonstop clairvisual and clairaudial messages about the phenomena which had occurred.

Anxious to see for himself whether or not the phenomena was real, Ed, who normally experiences little clairvoyant feelings at all, went into the cellar. The cellar is typically where evil spirits spend their days, and Ed therefore felt that would be the best place for him to start. Despite his usual immunity from witnessing phenomena, Ed saw shadows along with thousands of pinpoints of light. These shadows attempted to push him to the ground. Ed used religious resistance and commanded the evil spirits to leave. He immediately got the sensation of something attempting to lift him off of the ground, and he knew then that this was truly a house of evil. Although he knew that this was serious case, he had no idea how severe it really was. He has never been so seriously affected in any case before, or after, the Amityville Horror case.

Lorraine’s Experiences: Lorraine was frightened even before she’d entered the house. She’d contacted some priest friends in advance and asked them to accompany her in spirit into the house. She took relics with her of Padre Pio which she’d received in a letter from a total stranger earlier in the week.

As she went to the stairs to go to the 2nd floor landing, she felt as if there was a huge force of rushing water against her, and the atmosphere around here was solidifying.

On the second floor, Lorraine went into the sewing room. Marvin Scott, the Channel 5 anchorman, told Lorraine, “I hope that this is as close to hell as I ever get,” as they went into Missy’s room. Lorraine immediately clairvoyantly knew that Missy’s room had the same furniture as it had when the DeFeo girls were murdered. Mr. Lutz had let his children sleep in the DeFeo children’s death beds.

In the master bedroom, one wall was all mirrors. Lorraine sat on the bed where the DeFeo parents had been shot. Only the mattress on the bed had been changed. The feeling in the rooms was that of absolute horror, and going from room to room did not dissipate the feeling at all. One just seemed more horrible than the next.

On the third floor, Lorraine clairvoyantly encountered Ronald DeFeo. This encounter was so awful, and he was so sinister, that she felt there was absolutely nothing she could do to help--or eject--his spirit from the house.

Once she was downstairs again, she was asked to do something she had never wanted to do after entering the house--she was asked to communicate with the spirits in the house and ask what had really happened. All of the investigators were in the room. The investigator from Duke University actually passed out cold from fear! Two of the other investigators complained of heart palpitations and had to rest on the floor. The house seemed to have the most dire effect on men. Mary Pascarella, the Director of a prominent psychic research group in New Haven, actually became so ill that she had to be taken outside and from that moment forward she never entered the house again.

Ed and Lorraine Warren left a 1:00am. Both were so affected that they vowed they’d never go back into that house again. But they did....and the Amityville Horror story was born.


http://www.warrens.net/amityvill.htm
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:24:37 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 09-26-2005 09:58 PM                       
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Hi Jennifer, I've just been busy with my summer. Now that it's pretty much over, hopefully there will be more time to concentrate on ghosts again.

Hey, Mish, hope that the ghost hunting is going well and that we see you here again before Halloween!
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:25:03 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 09-26-2005 10:04 PM                       
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Well gee, Sandra, so nice to see you again!!

My third favorite person here behind Michelle and Aphrodyke! :;

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:25:36 pm
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   posted 09-26-2005 10:05 PM                       
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Halloween Vampires and Ghosts
All Reflect Truths About Yin and Yang

Did you ever notice that really long lasting literary pieces or literary characters are often the embodiment of cultivation knowledge and theory? In fact, people don't usually recognize this, but that's actually the factor which accounts for their longevity.

Let's take a look at the myth of the vampire to understand this.

Everyone knows a bit about yin and yang. Yang stands for positive things such as sunshine, good fortune, energy, movement, kings, men, luck and so on. Yin stands for dark things, bad fortune, sickness, scary things, the moon, the night, females and so on.

So what about the vampire?

Guess what? He's the archetypal example of yin. After all, he's dead (yin), comes out at night (yin), lives in his own coffin (yin), can't stand sunshine (yang) yet needs blood (yang) to survive. He's invisible in mirrors (yin), cannot stand garlic (yang) or holy images (yang), and if you get rid of the head vampire (the source of yin), all the others fade away.

All right, what about the green hulk, who is popular in the movie theaters at present?

Well we know from Chinese medicine that getting angry involves the liver chi, which is green just like bile. Whenever people get angry they lose their heads as well. Put two and two together and you have a successful cartoon character, namely the Hulk. He's green like liver chi and when angry all his chi comes up and he gets powerfully strong.

Smash, smash, smash!

In JOURNEY TO THE WEST, which is a famous Chinese literary classic, most people don't know that the Monkey king stands for the sixth mind (discriminatory consciousness). The Pig stands for the six senses which always want to be fed (that's why he's always after food and women). The monk, Xuan Zang, is totally useless because he stands for the indeterminant alaya consciousness which is simply a receiving, not a doing consciousness. If you want more info on that, grab a copy of How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization which has all sorts of goodies inside, just like this discussion.

Whenever Xuan Zang is riding on his horse, it means he's cultivating his breath and whenever anyone recites the correct mantra, the Monkey King is subdued because mantras calm the mind and keep it under control. It's all cultivation science! As to Chuang Tzu, most of his stories involve cultivation topics as well.

Now on to ghosts - why is it you never see their feet? Even pictures of ghosts in books rarely show their feet. Why?

As we've told you many times, it's very hard to open up the chi channels to the bottom of the feet. If you can do that you can even transform your hell karma. In fact, that's why medieval pictures of the devil represent him with a cloven foot. It all has to do with the chi not being able to reach the bottom of the feet because if it truly can, then your yang chi can arise. Yang chi, as you know, scares ghosts away because ghosts are yin. That's why they give you the willies and why you usually encounter them in the twilight (yin) hours, or at certain hours of the day when yin chi is strong. When people are sick and dying, their chi is quite yin and that's when they can start to see other spirits too. It all has to do with chi communication.

Which tells us that if you want to connect with higher spiritual beings, then cultivate and mantra!

Ghosts and spirits and sickness brings up the topic of hospitals.

Many people tell me they're quite sensitive and hate going to hospitals. Not just because of the smell of all those disinfectants, but because they just feel "ucky" due to all the yin chi. It feels like their chi is drained every time they visit friends who are sick.

Here's what Master Nan always tells people when visiting hospitals or places full of yin chi.

Open up your palm, and look at your left hand. Now take your thumb and touch the base of your third finger. Close your fingers over the thumb and while you're in the hospital, or in any place with energy sucking beings, keep the hand closed. They won't be able to see you or bother you if you do it.

Does it work?

I don't know but since it costs nothing to do and no one sees you doing it, then why not? There's always an esoteric reason behind things like this, and this one would presumably have protective characteristics due to the fact that the pressure of the thumb on that point would activate a certain chi mai and chi flow in the body to produce certain effects. That's the sort of thing martial artists and acupuncturist study.

Once my teacher showed me how to move my fingers in a certain way to open up a particular chakra and BAM! the result was instantaneous. You could even feel all the chi mai that were activated because of the strange finger positions. So that's the science behind the procedure. The idea of people exercising their tongue in order to help their hearts, since the two are connected, also falls into this realm of interconnections.

Many folks who are sensitive have said this closed fist procedure helps, so even if it were just a placebo rather than an esoteric factoid, why not? What's wrong with placebos if they produce the desired effect? I'd use any placebo if it "helps."

Think about it.

Now you already know that as you get more advanced in meditation, your chi changes. When your chi changes, you'll start to get more sensitive and notice that there's lots of sentient beings that live off human beings just as we live off animals. Many people notice these things in their dreams.

So what do you do inside your dreams when some thing is chasing or attacking you?

One word answer: MANTRA.

The yang power of a mantra is usually enough to scare any baddies away when they aren't just the psychological manifestation of a bad tummy and so forth. Mantras call the attention of protection deities to your plight and if you don't have the karma for it, away the baddies must go.

People who make it a habit to mantra usually find it easy to mantra in heir dreams when they get scared, so mantra is a very good cultivation practice. Actually, part of your reason for being here in this world is that you want to MANTRA anyway that lower level sentient beings get saved so that they can stop any evil ways and leave their unfortunate lower realm of existence. That's true mercy and merit making.

You want to help beings that come at you with a mind of greed or hate, not hurt them or destroy them. After all, most beings turn to evil ways when they have no other choice. You're not out to punish or destroy, otherwise the circle of karma will come back to you. You want to turn a yin situation into a yang situation so you want to help them with a mind of mercy. You want to help them and convert them. You want to transform the situation since you only encounter what you karmically merit.

As an aside, you shouldn't be scared of this sort of thing in the first place. Why? Because a virtuous life never attracts trouble. Whatever comes to you is always due to karma, so the key is learning how to TRANSFORM any situation that arises. That's what a Zen master does, he tries to transform hate into something positive. Playing in the dharma realm of "existence" is simply a matter of using the right wisdom and skillful means to transform things for the better. That's what it's all about.

As Master Nan also says, if you just associate with "good people" and people you like instead of also with demons and the baddies of the world, you'll have no one to teach by the time you become a Buddha. These guys need it the most, so they are the ones you have to save! Also, if you don't bother to save them, then who will? So as Ma Tse said, just throw an extra pound of these troubles on my shoulder for after all, they're not REAL anyway.

You can meet all sorts of sentient beings in the universe which are stronger than you and scarier looking than you, but actually there's never any reason to get scared. They're just doing what they do to make a living. Even if their appearance is quite startling (an apt Halloween topic for sure), on the topic of frightening appearances we have to adopt the cultivation mindset as well.

There's trillions, gadzillions of sentient beings in the universe and all of them just look different, not scary. Who's to actually say what's ugly, scary, frightening or beautiful? To a crow we look ugly and frightening; to us the crow looks ugly. Even Halle Berrie, as beautiful as she is, will scare away a pond fish if it catches a glimpse of her face. So just because sentient beings look different doesn't mean they're really ugly. That determination is a product of discriminative thought and the workings of the sensation skandha. In cultivation, that's something you have to detach from.

As another example, for the life of me I cannot say that one elephant looks prettier or is more handsome than another but I'm pretty sure they have their own way of differentiating. So who are we to judge?

Now "hungry ghosts," in particular it's reported, look unusually odd. Some have big stomachs and small mouths, others strange heads and bodies, and there are all sorts of deviations because they are suffering from bad karma. If you ever hear them speak it sounds like doves cooing.

Here's what you can do to help them if you want to be a real Buddha and gain lots of merit at the same time.

First, RECITE the Diamond Sutra for them. Recite any sutra for them because it does indeed help. Prayers show concern, but sutras can affect a transformation in their minds and thus fortunes. Their bodies, since they are made of chi, can change in an instant due to pure thoughts, so if they learn something through the sutra they hear, they can often leave their lower state and transmigrate in an instant. Plenty of people have dreams where some spirit asks them to help it and after reciting a sutra so that the being catches some understanding of emptiness, they can let go of their lower state and move ahead.

That's being a real Buddha or Bodhisattva.

Second thing you can do is MANTRA for them. The Zhunti mantra, Amitofo mantra, Hell Buddha and Kuan Yin mantra are great. The Catholic idea of saying prayers for those in purgatory is exactly this idea.

Last, MAKE OFFERINGS.

Every night you should take a few grains of rice (or vegetarian food) and some water and bless them, mantra over them and offer them to sentient beings. You pray that this food is blessed and purified through the power of the Buddhas, and that it thereby can reach and feed the hungry ghosts who are permitted to consume it. Also, dedicate the merit to your parents and others you may feel you owe, such as the Buddhas. After you bless the food, put it outside or on a window sill -- some place that becomes a habitual spot the hungry ghosts can visit. Don't worry about how they can get to it ... they have their ways.

You can make up your own little hungry ghost blessing to do this if someone hasn't taught you (see the PLUM VILLAGE CHANTING AND RECITATION BOOK for the larger ceremony), but you SHOULD do this every night. Just a few bits of VEGETARIAN food and water offered to lower sentient beings to help them out.

Everyone wants help from Buddhas and other higher beings for all sorts of projects and situations, but we never ask what we can do for those in more unfortunate situations than us. Here's your chance and it doesn't even cost you anything! A low energy, no cost way to actually be a Buddha for other sentient beings and make a difference. My teacher does this every night religiously, despite his high stage of attainment, and I can attest to its results. If you feed these sentient beings, you'll not only help them but they'll help you. But don't go at this with the idea of getting something in return. After all, it is an OFFERING, not an investment.

It only takes me a few minutes to do this every evening, like brushing your teeth which you do without thinking about it, and Master Nan actively encourages everyone to do this as it's a way to pay off sentient beings you may owe and gain tremendous merit in the process. As Taoism says, you need at least 3000 good deeds to become an immortal, so we need all the merit we can get.

In Buddha's time a blind monk asked for someone to thread his needle and he was shocked that Shakyamuni did it himself. Shakyamuni explained that despite his advanced stage of attainment, he was always greedy to accumulate merit, even the merit from something as small as threading a needle for a blind man. So you should always be greedy to accumulate merit.

That's a good lesson.

It's hard to be a Buddha for other human beings, but easy to be a Buddha for animals and ghosts and others down the ladder, so don't miss the nightly chance to do this and pay off your debts. It's very hard to accumulate merit but this is a cost free way - even spitting in the desert and praying that the water can help hungry ghosts will do exactly that, so please cultivate the mind of mercy and discipline to do this.

The scary thing is not the ghosts and ghouls and demons that parade in front of us, but our own demonic minds of anger, greed and hate and that we don't seize any chances to accumulate the merit nor clean our minds so that the lower pathways are closed off to us.






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Copyright (c) 2005 William Bodri
All Rights Reserved in All Media

This article can be freely copied, reprinted or transmitted in any form without request
as long as credit is given to the author William Bodri and the originating site http://www.meditationexpert.com.

http://www.meditationexpert.com/Articles/HalloweenGhosts.htm

[ 09-26-2005, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Pagan ]

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:26:56 pm
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   posted 09-26-2005 10:16 PM                       
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Guidelines for Ghost Hunters
by Fiona Broome and the Hollow Hill staff ©2005


No one can enforce rules upon independent ghost hunters. For that same reason, Hollow Hill cannot assume responsibility (or credit) for what happens during ghost hunts.
Also, remember that the media often portrays ghosts and hauntings as something more dangerous and spectacular than they actually are. In fact, it's usually the small and subtle things which will startle you.

For example, it's not the eerie moaning noises which will raise the hairs on the back of your neck, but the fact that the surroundings are far too quiet.

Never use movies or TV shows as guidelines for your encounters with the paranormal.

Here are our strongest recommendations:

1. Above all, use your common sense.

2. Never go ghost hunting alone. Hunt with at least one companion.

3. Verify location, accessibility, safety, and related issues ahead of time. Check each site during daytime hours to identify parking, paths, and hazards.

4. Wear suitable clothing, including sturdy footwear. Carry a working flashlight, even during daytime ghost hunts. Do not drink or use drugs before or during a ghost hunt.

5. Never trespass on private or posted property, without specific permission from the owners or authorities.

6. Leave immediately and cheerfully if the police or owners ask you to, even if the property is not posted. Provide photo ID if the police ask.

7. If you become unreasonably frightened, leave. Always follow your gut instinct if you are prompted to leave.

8. Remember, you have more to fear from the living than from the dead. Haunted sites are often isolated and deserted. That makes these sites attractive to people engaged in illegal activities. Use caution and common sense.

9. As your mother taught you, never speak ill of the dead. Avoid sarcasm and jokes in haunted settings. Sometimes, the spirits "get even."

10. Ghosts do not follow you home. If you are frightened and leave a haunted location, the spirits generally do not go with you and they cannot affect your thoughts.

11. If you are troubled by unwanted thoughts after leaving a haunted location, relax. Eat some comfort food. Watch a happy movie or TV show. Talk it out with a skeptical friend. Spend some time in a church. If the unwanted thoughts persist, see a professional.

12. Ouija boards are not inherently evil. The biggest problem with them is that you don't know who or what is directing the platen, and if the entity is lying. We don't rely upon them during investigations.

13. Never rely upon cellular phones in haunted settings. Often, they won't work. Step across the street and the phone usually resumes power/range.

14. Remember that you are visiting a location that a ghost considers "home." Behave politely as you would in someone else's home.

15. Ghosts do not "possess" people without their consent. If someone or something seems to be taking control, tell it to stop. Think rude thoughts at it, and generally picture yourself as a bigger bully than the spirit is. This does work in most cases. If you--or someone you know--seems "possessed," consult a professional and/or a member of the clergy. It may not be a ghost.

16. Generally, you cannot help a ghost. You can advise them to move on, but don't waste more than about ten minutes discussing this. If you aren't making any progress, it's best to leave that kind of work to a professional. Most ghosts are tied to their earthly locations because they want to change something that happened in the past.

You can't change the past, and most ghosts aren't really interested in anything else.

And frankly, some ghosts just like attention. Don't take their ploys seriously.

17. There are no documented cases of someone being seriously physically harmed by a ghost. If you're worried about this sort of thing, choose a different hobby. Ghost hunting should be fun.

18. It is reasonable to reimburse someone for their time and expenses, if you accompany them on a ghost hunt. However, if someone is charging you money as if they're providing a show... perhaps they are. Caveat emptor.

If you disagree with these guidelines, we urge you to create your own website and offer alternative opinions.

Other people may be frightened by shadows, or take risks that we avoid. We choose not to. We're simply looking for scientific evidence to explain what happens in "haunted" settings. We pursue this for fun, and to satisfy our intellectual curiosity.


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Hollow Hill is a ghost information site; our information is only as reliable as readers' reports.
We assume no credit for your adventures, and accept no liability for your misadventures.
Use common sense. Read our ghost hunting recommendations. Before visiting any "haunted" site, verify the location, accessibility, safety, and other important information.
Never trespass on private and/or posted property without permission from the authorities.

All photos and text at Hollow Hill are copyrighted by the authors:
Fiona Broome, Eibhlin Morey MacIntosh, and staff.


http://www.hollowhill.com/rules.htm


Children and Ghosts
by Tina (Tarianna@theshadowlands.net)
The existense of ghosts has been debated for centuries. It is only in modern times with technology having advanced to it's current stage that we may now capture on film and audio what many believe to be images of the supernatural. The questions of why some can and yet others cannot see or sense the presense of these entities has been contested with numerous theories both for and against the subject of spirits. One such cause for speculation is do our children see and sense what many adults either cannot or will not see?
One theory is that children have not had years to adjust their thinking and have not had the time to train themselves as to what to accept or not accept as reality like adults have. Adults program their thinking and consequently refuse certain images, noises, and feeling as real simply
because in our minds we cannot accept impossible or unproven science.
Some parents unknowingly start to teach and train their children at a very young age to block these images. They do it out of protection and misunderstanding of the situation. How many parents have tucked their little ones back into bed with the words that they thought were reassuring; there are no such things as ghosts, you just had a bad dream, it wasn't real, it
was just your imagination? I think most parents are guilty of this including myself. How many parents are guilty of telling their children that their imaginary friend is not real, maybe not realizing that not only is that friend real but a ghost? I am sure it has happened before. Do you ever wonder if any of those bad dreams, those images seen in the night, those imaginary friends how many may actually be ghosts that for whatever reason have shown themselves to a child?
When we tell our children it was just a bad dream we may inadvertently teaching them to mistrust what they may have actually be seeing. Eventually training themselves to block what they have been taught cannot be real. Where as the opposite side of this theory; the parent who teaches their children that sometimes for whatever reason, a spirit may linger after death,
is leaving a space in that child to be able to accept the vision, the noise or the feeling of the supernatural. Could this be why some people are able to accept the supernatural with an open mind and yet others cannot? Does the door get shut at childhood or can it remain open? This is just one of the may theories used to explain why children see more of the supernatural world
then adults do. Comments are indeed welcome!



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http://theshadowlands.net/ghost/children.htm

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:27:47 pm
Pagan

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   posted 09-26-2005 10:21 PM                       
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I REALLY like this one, it comes from a "krishna" website:

Ghosts and Spirits Are Real!




Web Krishna.org

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When a man dies, he is called dead, but when he again appears in a subtle form not visible to our present vision and yet acts, such a dead body is called a ghost. Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (05-10-05)

It is practically experienced. I know that the ghost, if you go in a house ghostly haunted, if you chant Hare Krsna mantra, they'll go away. They cannot tolerate. In my life there was several incidences like that. In my household life, I was doing business in Lucknow. So there was one house, very big house, worth thousands of rupees' rent, but it was ghostly haunted. So nobody would take that house. I took it at two hundred rupees, (laughter) and very big house. And I was... All the servants, they complained, "Sir, there is ghost." So I was chanting. He was living in several spots, especially on the gate side. So I could understand, but I would chant Hare Krsna, and I was saved. Everyone was saved. There was... And, say, in 1969 I was guest in the house of John Lennon in London. So there was a ghost in... It was a big plot. There was a guest house. So they complained, "Sir, here is ghost." So I advised them to chant Hare Krsna, and the ghost went away. Yes. This is fact. When there is Hare Krsna chanting, these ghostly, demonic living entities, they'll not be able to stay there. They'll go away. [750203BG.HAW]

Those who are very sinful and attached to their family, house, village or country do not receive a gross body made of material elements but remain in a subtle body, composed of mind, ego and intelligence. Those who live in such subtle bodies are called ghosts. This ghostly position is very painful because a ghost has intelligence, mind and ego and wants to enjoy material life, but because he doesn't have a gross material body, he can only create disturbances for want of material satisfaction. It is the duty of family members, especially the son, to offer oblations to the demigod Aryama or to Lord Visnu. From time immemorial in India the son of a dead man goes to Gaya and, at a Visnu temple there, offers oblations for the benefit of his ghostly father. It is not that everyone's father becomes a ghost, but the oblations of pinda are offered to the lotus feet of Lord Visnu so that if a family member happens to become a ghost, he will be favored with a gross body. However, if one is habituated to taking the prasada of Lord Visnu, there is no chance of his becoming a ghost or anything lower than a human being. In Vedic civilization there is a performance called sraddha by which food is offered with faith and devotion. If one offers oblations with faith and devotion--either to the lotus feet of Lord Visnu or to His representative in Pitrloka, Aryama--one's forefathers will attain material bodies to enjoy whatever material enjoyment is due them. In other words, they do not have to become ghosts. [SB 4.18.18]

The word eka-pada, "one-legged," refers to ghosts, for it is said that ghosts walk on one leg. [SB 4.29.2]

Because of his desire to enjoy the material world, the living entity is dressed with the material gross and subtle bodies. Thus he is given a chance to enjoy the senses. The senses are therefore the instruments for enjoying the material world; consequently the senses have been described as friends. Sometimes, because of too much sinful activity, the living entity does not get a material gross body, but hovers on the subtle platform. This is called ghostly life. Because of his not possessing a gross body, he creates a great deal of trouble in his subtle body. Thus the presence of a ghost is horrible for those who are living in the gross body. [SB 4.29.6]

Sometimes the living entity is forced to give up his body and enter another one according to the judgment of Yamaraja. It is difficult, however, for the conditioned soul to enter another body unless the present dead body is annihilated through cremation or some other means. The living being has attachment for the present body and does not want to enter another, and thus in the interim he remains a ghost. If a living being who has already left his body has been pious, Yamaraja, just to give him relief, will give him another body. Since the living being in the body of the King had some attachment to his body, he was hovering as a ghost, and therefore Yamaraja, as a special consideration, approached the lamenting relatives to instruct them personally. Yamaraja approached them as a child because a child is not restricted but is granted admittance anywhere, even to the palace of a king. Besides this, the child was speaking philosophy. People are very much interested in hearing philosophy when it is spoken by a child. [SB 7.2.36]

After giving up the body, one is transferred to another body, but sometimes, if one is too sinful, he is checked from transmigrating to another body, and thus he becomes a ghost. To save a diseased person from ghostly life, the funeral ceremony, or sraddha ceremony, as prescribed in authorized sastra, must be performed. Ravana was killed by Lord Ramacandra and was destined for hellish life, but by Lord Ramacandra's advice, Vibhisana, Ravana's brother, performed all the duties prescribed in relation to the dead. Thus Lord Ramacandra was kind to Ravana even after Ravana's death. [SB 9.10.29]

We have heard of people's being haunted by ghosts. Having no gross material body, a ghost seeks shelter of a gross body to stay in and haunt. The Sakatasura was a ghost who had taken shelter of the handcart and was looking for the opportunity to do mischief to Krsna. When Krsna kicked the cart with His small and very delicate legs, the ghost was immediately pushed down to the earth and his shelter dismantled, as already described. This was possible for Krsna because He has full potency. [SB 10.7.9]

If a man becomes disappointed and he cuts his own throat or hangs himself, some way or other, eats some poison, to finish, does it mean that he is finished? Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. He is rascal. He does not know. By finishing this body he is finished--no, that is not possible. The result is, because he violated the rules of nature, he becomes a ghost. That is his life. One who commits suicide, he becomes a ghost. Ghost means he does not get this material body. He remains in the subtle body, mind, intelligence. Therefore ghost can go because he is in the mind. Mind speed is very strong. If you have got this material body, you cannot go immediately hundred miles off. But if you are in the mental body, you can go immediately, thousand miles immediately, within a second. So the ghost, they can play something wonderful because... But they are not happy because they have no gross body. They want to enjoy. He's materialist. He has committed suicide for some material want. So he is want of material..., fulfilling material desire. He could not fulfill in this body; therefore commits suicide, but the desire is there. The desire is there, and he cannot fulfill it. He becomes perplexed. Therefore the ghost create disturbance sometimes.

You mention ghosts. So far I have experience, the best way to remove them is to chant Hare Krishna very loudly and have jubilant kirtana until they leave. In England, on Mr. John Lennon's house where I was staying in 1969, there was one ghost. But as soon as the devotees began chanting very loudly, he went away immediately. [71-12-03]


His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Send this story to a friend This story URL: http://society.krishna.org/Articles/2000/11/00195.html

http://society.krishna.org/Articles/2000/11/00195.html

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:28:26 pm
Trent

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   posted 10-17-2005 09:46 PM                       
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Academia Embraces Spooky Studies


By Randy Dotinga | Also by this reporter

02:00 AM Oct. 11, 2005 PT


At the University of Arizona, a psychology laboratory devotes its time to investigating "dynamic info-energy systems" and a "survival of consciousness hypothesis." University of Virginia cardiologists have been studying whether heart patients enter "transcendental environments" in the operating room. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist colleague compiles records of alleged "transmigration" events from around the world.

Sure, plenty of scientists throughout history tried to uncover the mystery of life after death, from Aristotle to Thomas Edison, who took time off from activities like electrocuting an elephant to contemplate a megaphone for the dead. But current-day afterlife research? At accredited institutions of higher learning? Who knew?

Science journalist Mary Roach, author of the new book Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife, said that institutions are looking at the debate over the existence of the afterlife and declaring, "'We can study it, we can apply principles of peer-reviewed research, we can do it.' People say, 'Yes, we can figure it out.'"

Roach is a natural-born skeptic based in Oakland, California. She became interested in soul science while writing her best-selling 2003 book, Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers, in which she briefly touched on the bizarre story of Dr. Duncan MacDougall, the New England doctor whose findings were immortalized in the title of the 2003 Benicio del Toro movie 21 Grams.

MacDougall assumed the soul has mass, and figured he could measure it by putting a dying consumption patient on a scale. At death, the weight of the soul would presumably leave the dearly departed's body; in one experiment on a dying man, 21 grams seemed to vanish, joining the patient's dignity in the ether somewhere.

Roach loved this turn-of-the-century example of "American can-do spirit," even though MacDougall's work was discredited and he's now known as a bit of a nutball. So Roach set out to chronicle the history of afterlife research and the related field of afterlife-research debunking. Among other things, she made forays into topics like "vaginally extruded" ectoplasm (don't ask) and how infrasound might explain ghostly visions.

Nowadays, the study of the afterlife is a fringe subject in academia, Roach said. "There's very little of it going on," she said. "It's hard to get funding for legitimate research these days, and you can imagine (the struggle for) something as seemingly frivolous as parapsychology."

Even so, your taxpayer dollars -- and a private grant or two -- are supporting paranormal studies. "There are people who think it's outrageous that money is being spent on such a stupid topic, and others that feel like it's an important question that medicine or psychology should address," Roach said.

At the University of Arizona, for example, researchers at the innocuously named Human Energy Systems Laboratory -- with a total annual budget of about $500,000 -- have been busy asking psychics to pose questions to dead people. One subject was Allison DuBois, who inspired the NBC show Medium. The center is also looking into topics like "energy healing" and "non-contact therapeutic touch."

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,69086,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4

[ 10-17-2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Trent ]

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:29:25 pm
Trent

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   posted 10-17-2005 09:49 PM                       
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Academia Embraces Spooky Studies

By Randy Dotinga |

02:00 AM Oct. 11, 2005 PT

"Our work is in three areas: The first is really controversial, the second is very controversial and the third is super controversial," said psychology professor Gary Schwartz, the center's director.

In that third category is Schwartz's new medium-by-e-mail project, which is now recruiting psychics. Researchers will talk to relatives of the dead and then e-mail questions about the deceased to mediums. According to Schwartz, the mediums won't know any details about the dead person other than his or her name. (Perhaps the world of the dead has its own handy 411 service?)

For example, a medium might get e-mailed questions from "Jim" about his dead wife "Abigail" and from "David" about his dead wife "Victoria." The questions, according to Schwartz, will be along the lines of, "What did Abigail look like?" and "What did Abigail die of?"

If Jim looks at the two sets of answers -- without knowing who's who -- and picks those about his wife, that will be a sign that the medium may be onto something, especially if similar experiments beat the odds.

The University of Virginia's Division of Personality Studies is another hotbed of afterlife inquiry. It's home to both near-death studies (why do people have visions on the operating table?) and a researcher who compiles reports of children who talk about their past lives.

Have these researchers actually found anything to suggest the existence of a soul or afterlife? Schwartz said his research with about 20 mediums proves that some do indeed have a connection to the dead, or at least a way to glean details about them.

"Some mediums get information, and it's not fraud, it's not cold reading, it's not through any conventional mechanisms," said Schwartz, who's written a new book tied to NBC's Medium.

Nonsense, scoffs über-debunker Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptical Inquirer magazine and a Scientific American columnist. He thinks paranormal studies are a failure.

"After a century and a quarter of serious scientific research without any reliable, consistent, repeatable positive results, what's the point of continuing to spend money, energy and research time on the subject?" he asked. "If they haven't found something by now, they're probably not going to."

After traveling from India to England in search of everything from ghost hunters to reincarnation trackers, Roach has her own thoughts on the matter of paranormal research. She was taken aback a couple times, especially during a personal encounter with DuBois, the Medium medium. And she's intrigued by near-death research that suggests there may actually be something to patient visions.

Despite those glimmers of something concrete, Roach reports being "profoundly disappointed" that paranormal research isn't more convincing. Still, "I'm more open to the possibility that we haven't figured it all out," she said. "Science doesn't necessarily have all the answers."

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,69086-2,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_next1

[ 10-17-2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Trent ]

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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:30:20 pm
Trent

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   posted 10-17-2005 10:26 PM                       
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Edgar Cayce and Reincarnation: Past Life Readings as Religious Symbology

J. Gordon Melton

J. Gordon Melton is the author of numerous scholarly articles and books on New Religious Movements (NRM's), and is the editor of several standard reference works including the Encyclopedia of American Religions. Dr. Melton heads the Institute for the Study of American Religion in Santa Barbara, and is frequently approached by the media for his perspective on alternative religious movements. He earned his Ph.D. in religion from Northwestern University, and is a United Methodist minister. This article originally appeared in Syzygy: Journal of Alternative Religion and Culture (vol. 3 no. 1-2, 1994), and is based on a paper presented at the annual meeting of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion at Virginia Beach, Virginia on Nov. 9-11, 1990.


When Edgar Cayce (1877-1945) died, he left behind a unique resource, complete transcripts of over 1600 readings he had given in the last decades of his life to the hundreds of people who came to him for help and advice. Subsequently, under the leadership of his son Hugh Lynn Cayce, the Association for Research and Enlightenment (ARE) and the Edgar Cayce Foundation mobilized thousands of people to explore and study the transcripts which were cross-indexed and proved the inspiration for numerous books which have attempted systematically to present the information and teachings scattered in bits and pieces haphazardly through the readings. Thus by compiling the many life readings on Atlantis, ARE writers developed a coherent picture of what Cayce taught about that lost continent.

In more recent years, the publication and spread of the Cayce literature became a major factor in the emergence of what is loosely termed the New Age Movement. For example, one can trace the speculation on crystal power which has emerged as such a prominent teaching among New Age groups directly to the compilation into a booklet of Cayce's rather meager and scattered references to crystals in the readings.

Among the major themes in the readings are several other key New Age concerns including alternative health (possibly the most explored material in the Cayce readings), astrology (the least explored in relation to the significant amount of attention Cayce devoted to it), and reincarnation. Reincarnation, as developed in the hundreds of past-life readings given by Cayce, could be seen as the single most prominent concern of the Cayce materials. For over thirty years, Cayce went into trance and offered people information on "previous lives lived in planet earth" while interpreting their significance for present existence. These life readings, along with readings which specifically asked for elaboration on the material given in the life readings, presented a cosmic metaphysics which many have accepted and used for guidance in their lives. (1) The importance of the reincarnation theme in the Cayce readings has taken on added dimensions in this present generation with over 20 percent of the American public now professing a belief in reincarnation.

The emergence of reincarnation and Cayce's past life readings

The idea of reincarnation and the possibility of exploring past lives did not just suddenly emerge in the Cayce readings. Cayce demonstrated his psychic talents on many occasions and had gained some reputation nationally. That fame brought Arthur Lammers to his door. Lammers, a wealthy printer from Dayton, Ohio, walked into Cayce's Selma, Alabama studio in 1921. He is described by Cayce biographers as a man interested in and a deep student of metaphysics, the occult, esoteric astrology, and Eastern religion. Tibet, Theosophy, and the Great White Brotherhood were his intellectual playground. Initially, Lammers questioned Cayce about these matters only to handle the skepticism of the Bible-believing Christian that Cayce then was.

In November 1923, Lammers paid for Cayce to come from Selma to Dayton, Ohio, along with his wife Gertrude. Lammers supplied a stenographer while Cayce gave two readings a day for a week. It was at the end of the third of these readings that the famous quote concerning Lammers appeared: "Third appearance on this plane--He was a monk." In between readings there were extensive conversations on Lammers' favorite subjects. The final reading consisted of three life readings (the first of many that Cayce would later give)--for Lammers, Cayce and a third participant. As a result of the readings and conversations with Lammers, Cayce became quite familiar with the Theosophical cosmology which began to fit conveniently into his other psychic work. Beginning during the week in Dayton, the role of past lives assumed an ever-increasing prominence in Cayce's psychic work and his readings, often under the questioning of those present when he went into trance, enlarged upon themes first mentioned in the past life readings.

Researching the Cayce material

While encouraging this vast amount of writing concerning the Cayce readings, the ARE has offered little encouragement to what might be termed scholarly treatments of Cayce and his readings. The material remains virgin territory to the intellectual historian ready to discover the many elements of metaphysical/occult thought which Cayce, largely unknowingly, synthesized into the teachings now lodged within the readings. We are completely lacking data of a social scientific nature. Sociologists have neither collected data on the current membership of the ARE or attempted to use the tools of the social sciences in examining the highly quantifiable material Cayce left behind. The motivation to examine critically the Cayce readings is provided both by the extraordinary claims made by the ARE leadership for Cayce's abilities, as well as the continuing popularity of Cayce's teachings.

Also, while much of the Cayce material is purely metaphysical speculation and hence primarily a matter of faith, the readings do make a number of claims concerning many points of prehistory and medical advice which are subject to at least some level of independent verification. Reincarnation is an area in which the metaphysical assertions and the more mundane verifiable claims overlap. Thus individuals may adhere to the basically Theosophical worldview of the readings on purely philosophical grounds (primarily a solution to the problem of evil in the concept of karma). However, many ARE members were initially attracted to the readings and now support their acceptance of the metaphysical perspective because of the claims of the confirmed accuracy of the more mundane material in the readings concerning historical events or medical advice, only a miniscule part of which have ever been subjected to critical scholarly scrutiny.

One major discouragement to scholarly research is the very bulk of the Cayce records, which consist of the verbatim transcripts from several decades of readings. To make sense of the records a substantial number would have to be read and analyzed.

The ARE has, to be sure, conducted some important research as attempts to gain some external validation of the teachings. Researchers have asked how the Cayce material conforms to independently verifiable data from other areas of knowledge. Such attempts follow closely the pattern set in The Search For Bridey Murphy as attempts were made to track down the truth of Bridey Murphy's previous existence and gather any information about her life in Ireland. (2) Parallel research with the Cayce material has centered upon information gleaned from the life readings, especially claims about Atlantis and the Holy Land in the time of Jesus. One researcher, following the Bridey Murphy pattern, tracked the evidence of a possible return of nineteenth-century feminist / prohibitionist Frances Willard. (3)

Attempts to verify the Cayce material in this manner have always followed a fairly consistent pattern. Much general data has a high correlation, while specific data is neither falsifiable nor verifiable due to lack of records. (Such proved true in Bridey Murphy's case also.) (4) Such a lack of specifics is most evident in the Atlantis material. No single relic of Atlantis exists, though it remains a speculative possibility. There is no record of one Ra Ta, a priest of Egypt and a major recurring character in the Cayce life readings, yet there is also no list of Egyptian priests to check it against. The evidence is consistently inconclusive.

Research has also sought to highlight discovered patterns of internal consistency within the Cayce readings. Does it present an internal wholeness in its philosophy and content, which in spite of its speculative nature is a reasonable and satisfying approach to life? The philosophy and worldview found in the readings and articulated through ARE literature has proved satisfactory to many but, for those who lack a previous interest in Theosophical or Eastern worldviews, is of no particular interest. After all, numerous other psychics have "channeled" a consistent workable speculative cosmology and ethic. The metaphysical speculations become interesting primarily because of the independently-verifiable material on such topics as healing, Atlantis, and past lives.

A variety of ways could be suggested to test the Cayce material. However, in spite of its name, with a few rare exceptions the Association for Research and Enlightenment has demonstrated little interest in, and on occasion even discouraged, "research" in the commonly-understood sense of that term. Rather it has behaved in ways more consistent with what we generally think of as a "religious" organization. It has devoted its energies to evangelical (spreading the teachings of Edgar Cayce), organizational (recruiting individuals into study groups), and educational activities (through seminars emphasizing the spiritual, metaphysical and practical life-situation implications of the teachings). It has even encouraged several major apologetic volumes to handle the problem of those incidents in which Cayce 's psychic abilities undeniably failed him. (5)

Understanding Cayce essentially as a religious teacher (and mythmaker), and the Association for Research and Enlightenment as a religious body, suggests a way to move beyond a mere exposition of Cayce's teachings, and at the same time resolve some of the problems in the readings which arise as soon as they are taken literally as presenting either historical or scientific information. Thus laying aside for the moment the immediate question of the factual nature of Cayce's assertions concerning, for example, ancient history or modern medicine, this paper focuses upon the elements of the readings which have emerged as religious symbols and attempts to suggest to manner in which these symbols function.

The great majority of Cayce's readings were for individuals and included (besides an astrological reading) the delineation of (usually) four past lives, each of which was having some karmic effect in the present. As one begins to read a sample of the life readings it is soon evident that the number of different settings of the past lives presented in Cayce is relatively small. That is, in giving readings to his clients, Cayce chose from a limited number of points in time and places in the world--what I have termed a time-culture slot. Further reading reveals not only a repetition of particular time-culture slots, but of actual content, so that after a cursory reading of several past-life accounts one could begin to predict the content. When a person is told that s/he once lived in, for example, ancient Rome, the reader would know immediately what effect that life will have on the person presently. The time-culture slots function as basic symbols to carry the message of the readings.

The high level of repetition in the life readings makes them ideal subjects for a quantitative approach, and quantifying elements of the readings proved immensely useful in uncovering the underlying patterns within the readings and thus revealing some of the symbology employed by Cayce. The quantifying effort began with a count of the total number of past incarnations discussed in the Cayce transcripts and then a selection of a smaller sample for closer scrutiny.

Patterns--the basic data

The ARE's efforts to cross-index the Cayce readings greatly assisted in the process of dealing with the material in a quantitative way. Figure 1 is a table of incarnations. (6) It shows the locations of all the incarnations noted in the life readings. (Column B shows the number of incarnations in the life readings numbered 1400 to 1599, which were used as a representative sample.)

Figure 1


Egypt
America

(Settler)
(Revolution)
(Other)

Persia
Atlantis
New Testament
Old Testament

(Ezra)
(Nebuchadnezzar)
(Other)

Rome
England
France
Greece
Crusades
India
Peru
Gobi
Scandanavia
Troy
German
Yucatan
Spain
All Others
_________
Total Total

1300 +
1200 +


600 +
500 +
500 +
400 +


400 +
300 +
250 +
250 +
139
97
79
73
74
52
52
41
34
173
_______
6517 Sample

60
64

(31)
(19)
(14)

31
19
36
19

(9)
(3)
(7)

16
13
23
8
14
2
0
9
3
0
1
4
1
5
______
316


The figures were taken from the index card file at the ARE Library. Those numbers below 150 are exact counts. Those above 150 are approximations made by measuring the thickness of the index cards. They are not exact but close enough for this study.

By time-culture slot is meant the particular place and moment in time and history that an incarnation takes place. Cayce's readings show an extremely limited number of time-culture slots. For example the largest number of incarnations are listed for Egypt, but they do not cover Egypt's whole history. They are limited to the Egypt during the time Ra Ta was the main priest. The second entry shows a slight variation in the time-culture slot in that these incarnations vary over America's pre-colonial history, but always represent the incarnated person as a settler. The remaining time-culture slots are presented in descending order: Persia during the time of Uhjldt, etc.

There was one difficulty in quantifying the material, in that some countries are mentioned only in connection with another country. Thus, Peru and the Yucatan are significant as locations for incarnation only as places to which Atlanteans migrated when their home was destroyed. Some Grecian incarnations relate to Uhjldt's rule in Persia. Thus, a mere fifteen time-culture slots account for approximately 90 percent of all the incarnations which Cayce recounted. Also of note, Cayce asserted that the most recent incarnation mentioned of each sitter was, in almost all cases in which it was mentioned, in America.

The basic symbols of the life readings are the time-culture slots which provide the settings for the particular incarnation and message that incarnation was said to contain. As shall be seen, the variety of messages given in relation to a time-culture slot is also equally limited.

The sample

The task of covering the life readings of over 1600 individuals would be a monumental one, both statistically and in terms of the time consumed in study. The possibility of giving statistical consideration to the whole of the material is open only to someone who is capable of a lengthy stay at Virginia Beach, which has not been possible for this author.

In lieu of a general survey, a more modest project was conceived. A representative sample consisting of all life readings between # 1400 and # 1599 was selected to be quantified. Singled out for special consideration were the Atlantean and Egyptian incarnations.

Results of this survey indicate that the sample followed the overall pattern of the readings' incarnations. It was from these incarnations that some of the patterns in Figure 1 emerged. First, American incarnations were discovered to be divided three ways: those identified as settlers in some part of colonial America, those who took part in the Revolutionary War, and others who include a number involved in either the Gold Rush of 1849 or the New England witchcraft trials. Secondly, the Old Testament references are primarily from two eras, the time in which Ezra and Nehemiah rebuilt the Wall of Jerusalem and the time of Nebuchadnezzar.

Noticeably absent from the life readings are references to incarnations outside of the mainstream of Western cultural history (less than 100 out of 6,516) including neglect of Africa south of the Sahara, China, Russia and Latin America.

Since the vocation followed during the past incarnations was a noticeable, consistent bit of information in the life readings, it was singled out as an item of interest. Because the largest number came from the Ra Ta period of Egypt, and because of the paucity of published material on this era, it was used as an illustration.

The general picture of Egypt presented in the readings is of a time of a civil war in which the pharoah's brother revolted but was defeated. Egypt was the recipient of immigrants from Atlantis. Much of the real power was in the hands of Ra Ta the high priest (Edgar Cayce in a former life) who ran the Temple Beautiful and the Temple of Sacrifice. Ra Ta attempted to "organize religious practices and bring the people to the idea of the one creative principle through the symbology of the sun and the continuance of individual life." (8) Of the people who supposedly survived from this era to seek a Cayce reading, they roughly fall into three categories as pictured below in Figure 2.

Figure 2


Ra Ta Incarnations

Total in sample

King's household
(Prince/princess)

Temple
(Priestess)

Other
(Hospital)
(Granaries) Number

60

20
(6)

23
(4)

14
(4)
(3) Percentage


33 %
(10 %)

38 %
(6 %)

23 %
(6 %)
(5 %)


The sample indicates that over three-fourths of these incarnations were either of the king's household, ruling officials and royalty, or temple workers. Of the remaining 23 percent two occupations, hospital work and being in charge of granaries took up half. In the relatively small sample three people are designated as the ruler over the granaries. (9) The designated vocation also served as a symbol and people with the same vocations were given essentially the same information. For example, people who were told that they were priests in their Egyptian incarnation would also be told that they had educational abilities and would find present happiness in an activity that included instructing others.

Beyond the general vocational patterns, a more important pattern of repetition occurs when two individuals are given the same exact reading. This happened more than once. Just in the representative sample three different men were told that they were the ruler of the granaries in Ra Ta's Egypt. (No count is available as to how many other times this happened.) Significantly, in several occasions two people were specifically identified as a particular person. The subject of reading # 1432 was identified as the woman taken in adultery in the famous biblical story. # 295 was also identified as this personage. Two different people were identified as the central figure in the biblical story of the rich young ruler (# 2677 and # 1416). These patterns indicate the symbolic nature of the material in the life readings.

Further illustration of vocational material came from the most publicized segment of incarnations, those concerned with Atlantis. To give added information, all references in chapter three of the popular book Edgar Cayce on Atlantis were added to the sample. A picture of Atlantis according to Cayce can be found in this book. These incarnations are listed in Figure 3.

Figure 3

Total number of Atlantean incarnations--500+


Total in samples

Prince(ss) and ruler

Priest or temple official

Technicial

Other

Unknown Chapter 3


47

9

10

14

8

6 # 1400-1599


19

6

6

2

3

2 Total


67

15

16

16

11

8 Percentage


------

23 %

24 %

24 %

17 %

12 %


In Atlantis as in Egypt, there is a large number of rulers and priests, though the significantly large number of technicians and engineers manifest a difference from Egypt. Little or no recognition in the literature published by previous writers on Cayce is given to the vast percentage of references to royalty in the Atlantean readings. In like measure, the writers on Cayce and Atlantis seem to have missed the connection between the vocation and the repetition of what is said to different people who received the readings. (10)

Patterns of deviation

Even though 90 percent of the incarnations fit into fifteen time-culture slots, a total of 537 (out of 6516) do not fit. In the sample 23 of these deviating incarnations appear (out of 316). The question was asked, is there some reason for the variation? Unfortunately for the researcher there is a cloak of anonymity thrown around those people whose readings are on file. (This anonymity, though frustrating, is a necessity for the protection of those who sought a reading.) Because of the anonymous nature of the material, the search for patterns ended almost before it began. However, from the little bit of biographical data given (date and place of birth), one correlation appeared so often that it could not be ignored. Where there was a deviation in the time-culture slot pattern, it was often related to the place of birth of the individual (which may account for the large number of American incarnations). In the representative sample # 1476 has a Polish incarnation, and was born in Poland in this life. The other Polish incarnation was for # 1869, who in this life was born in Warsaw. Many of the Norwegian (and "Scandinavian") incarnations are of Norwegian birth (or in one case of Norwegian ancestry). Numbers 1431, 1437, and 1450 are such cases. The Norwegian incarnations are in most cases also related to either Eric the Red or Lief Erickson--the only Norwegians of which most Americans have even heard.

While a biography of each person who got a life reading would be a researcher's delight, at least one pattern of deviation relative to the present life of the sitter was revealed. Deviating incarnations are tied to the present birthplace of the individual. The deviating incarnations revealed the symbolic nature of the first life Cayce tended to note in giving a life reading. It occurred in the land in which the client was born in this life.

Glamorization of the past

As a by-product of reading over a hundred of the past-life readings in order to quantify them, one further reflection emerged from the study. It is quite common in the psychic community for psychics to receive mediumistic revelations from the famous. These revelations have most often come through mediums supposedly channeling from famous personages. This author has known numerous mediums who regularly channeled from the likes of Elvis Presley, Martin Luther King, Albert Schweitzer, and Gandhi. There is a noticeable attempt to enhance the medium by an association with the famous. Since Cayce was not a traditional medium and hence did not contact spirit entities, this process is absent.

However, there is present in Cayce material a similar occurrence in the enhancement of the subjects for whom life readings were given by either identifying them or associating them with famous personages in past incarnations. This process began with the very first life reading in which Lammers was identified with Hector (of the Trojan War). A more recent instance was a young woman who was identified with Frances Willard and about whom a book was written. There are, of course, several hundred readings which identified people as being among the very elite few mentioned in the Bible.

One might expect a famous person or two to appear in the over 6000 incarnations, but the process becomes suspect when there are so many. The number of the famous is further highlighted by the percentage of royalty and other elites (priests, generals, etc.) in the readings--as high as 50 percent in some time-culture slots.

Conclusion: Toward a new way to understand the Cayce material

Reincarnation scenarios offer a rather dramatic setting in which to place an otherwise mundane psychic reading. Cayce's adoption of reincarnation and past lives as the religious symbols through which advice and counsel was offered to his clients also provides some insight into the development of his talents. Once Lammers' ideas were lodged within that part of Cayce which came to the fore when he was in trance, they were allowed to expand and grow. Elaboration on the material was continually encouraged by the entranced Cayce being questioned on specific issues by those who were present for his reading sessions.

The understanding of the reincarnation material as symbolic, not literal, does much to explain the repetition in the Cayce readings. When Cayce clairvoyantly picked up certain data about present conditions of the sitter (either psychically or from readily-available information), such data would be translated symbolically into a certain time-culture slot. A foreign birth was translated into a previous incarnation in that land. The symbolic understanding also explains why the fifteen time-culture slots concentrated on ones relatively well-known to the average American in the early twentieth century. Cayce was using those eras about which he had been taught by his public school education, church school, and the Theosophist Lammers. Thus American pioneers, the Crusaders, the fall of Troy, Old Testament times, Jesus' era, mystic Egypt and occult Atlantis all appear. Even the Essene material is directly derivative of two occult best-sellers--The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, by Levi H. Dowling; and The Mystical Life of Jesus, by Rosicrucian author H. Spencer Lewis. (12)

The reincarnation material functions as a convenient tool to self-awareness, a fact being exploited by a number of present-day counselors. (13) By highlighting facts about a sitter through a reincarnation symbol one can, to many people, reveal self-truth in a way that is acceptable to the conscious ego. The insight about the sitter's state is accepted as true, and because the self is picking up a strain from a past life, the self is responsible for the situation and bears the responsibility for overcoming it. At the same time, since the cause of the situation is from a past life it comes as an intruder into this individual existence. The conscious self (the personality?) is not responsible, and thus can resign itself to paying a karmic debt.

This modest study does suggest several needed areas of further research. A full quantified survey of the life readings touching on the several other elements besides vocation would, of course, provide valuable information as well as confirmation of the symbolic nature of the readings. Secondly, a search for like patterns in the astrological and medical readings should also prove fruitful. The medical readings especially need to be subjected to some critical review as they have become the source for a broad program of medical advice to ARE members and friends.

Finally, a study of the sources of the material which elaborate on certain time-culture slots could prove most enlightening. A study initiated contemporaneously with the work being reported upon in this paper has found that the material on the Essenes in the Cayce readings also has mundane sources, namely some popular turn-of-the-century psychic books. The furtherance of studies of the extensive Cayce records will have as a long-term payoff not only an understanding of this one important psychic figure, but will also make a major contribution to our understanding of the process by which a public psychic operates.

Endnotes

1. Cayce, unlike many of his professional psychic contemporaries, did not go into trance in order to contact spirits. Rather, in trance, he was able to read what was termed the akashic records (an idea derived from Hindu thought), believed to be a cosmic record bank of data on all past events. Information on Cayce, life readings, and the cosmology can be found in the several general works on Cayce, the best of which are Thomas Sugrue's There is a River (New York: Dell Books, 1967) and Hugh Lynn Cayce's Venture Inward (New York: Harper & Row, 1967). Both are in easily-obtainable paperback editions.

2. The Search for Bridey Murphy, by Morey Bernstein (New York: Doubleday & Co., 1956).

3. The Return of Frances Willard, by Jeffrey Furst (New York: Coward, McCann & Geoghegan, 1971).

4. Cf. the symposium on the Bridey Murphy case in Tomorrow vol. 4 no. 4 (Summer 1956), pp. 4-49.

5. See Edgar Evans Cayce and Hugh Lynn Cayce, The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power (New York: Harper & Row, 1971) and Lytle Robinson, Is It True What They Say About Edgar Cayce? (New York: Berkley Books, 1979).

6. By "incarnation" is meant a reference to one particular past life about which a person is told. In the average Cayce reading four previous incarnations or past lives are recounted.

7. The major item on Egypt is a booklet by Mark Lehner, The Egyptian Heritage (Virginia Beach, VA: ARE Press, 1974, 1981). Cayce's life as Ra Ta is covered in W.H. Church, Many Happy Returns: The Lives of Edgar Cayce (New York: Harper & Row, 1984).

8. Life reading # 294-153.

9. Life reading # 1442-1; # 1574-1; # 1587-1.

10. Though large numbers of the Atlantean royalty's readings are quoted in Edgar Evans Cayce's Edgar Cayce on Atlantis (New York: Paperback Library, 1968), almost no reference to their subjects' princely states is made (a fact which accounts for the large number of eclipses in the text). Also, the Atlantean random sample (from # 1400-1500) indicates a much higher percentage of royalty and religious functionaries than the quotes from chapter three of Edgar Evans Cayce's book. This additional fact would tend to call into question the reliability of Edgar Cayce on Atlantis as a source for understanding the actual content of the Edgar Cayce material.

11. The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, by Levi H. Dowling (Los Angeles: Leo W. Dowling, 1911). This volume has been frequently reprinted.

12. The Mystical Life of Jesus, by H. Spencer Lewis (San Jose, CA: AMORC: 1929).

13. Cf. Morris Netherton and Nancy Shiffrin, Past Lives Therapy (New York: Avon Books, 1978); Edith Fiore, You Have Been Here Before (New York: Coward, McCann & Geoghegan, 1978), and Denys Kelsey and Joan Grant, Many Life Times (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Co., 1967).

14. This study should not be interpreted as an attack on a belief in reincarnation in general, merely as a suggestion that basing a belief in reincarnation on the Cayce material is basing a significant part of one's worldview on weak ground. This study says nothing about a belief in reincarnation based on other research--hypnotism (which has its own problems), the remembered past-life research of Ian Stevenson, and the testimony of spirit entities through mediums. Each of these methodologies must rise or fall on its own.

http://www.ciis.edu/cayce/melton.html

--------------------
"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:31:23 pm
Mish

Member
Member # 2552

  posted 10-18-2005 06:53 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi again everyone! Does anyone here have any sort of past-life memories? I don't, but all the info about children being closer to the 'other side' and therefore able to sense it better (thanx Pagan :-) hit home since I have kids that are 3 & 5. I'm not the kinda mom that tells them 'ghosts aren't real' or 'dreams aren't real', because by my own experiences it would make me a liar. I've lived in a haunted house, and had precognitive dreams myself. So, I tell them so. The confusion lies with the things they have learned from TV about ghosts and such (especially this time of year)so I yanked the cable last year - except in my husband's office - so now my babies are being totally braiwashed by their crazy, ghost-seeing mom instead of the media!Oh boy! Ha!

My son, the 5 year old, has always had very vivid dreams. For example, I just had tree trimmed that hangs over my house because my son took me out there last winter, pointed up to one particular, large, dead branch and told me he had a dream that it fell through the window of the house. He has had plenty of imaginary friends too, including an older woman who he said was a teacher named Miss Maury who would come and teach him things until me or daddy came in the room - then she 'shrinks into a little ball and flys off to the universe where me and daddy can't see her.' (Though, Miss Maury hasn't made an appearence since two years ago when we first moved to this house so I wonder what happened to her.) My son also says he sees my cats (both of whom are dead now and have been for years) all over the house. One cat never even lived at this residence. The cat visions scare him, and it has made him afraid of real cats somewhat. Do you suppose animals 'hang around' their former owners after they die? Two of my 'ghost sightings' in my haunted house back in the 80's were of animals, so between that, and my son's visions of my cats, I have always wondered...

Obviously, I take my sons dreams seriously because he does this kinda thing a lot and it seems that HE takes them very seriouly too, even at 5. I also think I mentioned before how when I asked my son if he remembered anything before me and daddy, he says he 'picked me out at the mommy store'.

Do any of you remember past lives, or have odd dreams that seem to reflect that? Do you think we are communicating with another realm when we dream sometimes? (I've personally had amazingly real dreams of talking with dead relatives in the past) Maybe when I 'go with my gut' on things, I am just doing what other lifetimes have taught me, and not really aware that that is what I consider my 'gut'...? I'm not sure if I believe in reincarnation myself, but I've always wondered... okay, I'm rambling now.... :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:31:56 pm
Allison
Member
Member # 2560

Member Rated:
   posted 10-18-2005 11:25 AM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone here have any sort of past-life memories?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but not in the conscious state.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Do you suppose animals 'hang around' their former owners after they die?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely. I know this first hand.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do any of you remember past lives, or have odd dreams that seem to reflect that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, as I said - not in the conscious state.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think we are communicating with another realm when we dream sometimes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sometimes, but all the time, well at least that is how it is for me. I leave my body to journey very easily and very often.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm not sure if I believe in reincarnation myself, but I've always wondered...
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well, that is a bit of a paradox. You tell all these tales about your son's experiences saying you don't doubt or discourage it and then you ask this question. I think you may have already answered that without knowing it 
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:32:16 pm
Mish

Member
Member # 2552

  posted 10-18-2005 03:24 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allison - I'd LOVE to hear your first hand stories of animal 'ghosts'. You've got me curious now.
Also, I still maintain that I am not sure I believe in reincarnation. I just don't dispute other's beliefs. Even my 5 year old son's. I guess you could just say that I am an eternal skeptic. :-)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:32:46 pm
Allison
Member
Member # 2560

Member Rated:
   posted 10-18-2005 06:55 PM                       
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I'm not sure what you mean when you say "ghost" - do you mean apparition or presence and do you mean in this world or the astral world. I'll try to explain this sensibly. First a short background where I am coming from with this - I travel freely between the worlds and so most of my contact with the disembodied spirits takes place on their turf. I had these 2 cats - Cozy and Melon. They were twins and I got them when they were 5 weeks old. I had a very strong psychic bond with Cozy. I brought these cats here from England with me. Melon passed away at age 9 from an accident and I was devastated. He was a large coal black cat and had this streak of mischief in him - he was extremely intelligent. I used to have to have a lock on the fridge to keep him out of there because he was forever opening the fridge and helping himself to whatever he wanted. Cozy never did these sort of things, she had quite the opposite kind of personality. Anyway, for quite a time after Melon died, I'd see or hear the fridge door open when nobody was anywhere near it. I'd often wake up to find the fridge open. It was Melon doing it. I'd sometimes hear him meow in that distinctive deep me-howl that he had. I think that Cozy would see him too because she was not as hisser or growler and she would sometimes fix her gaze intenty in the thin air at seemingly nothing and and hiss or growl. It was so unlike her. Melon used to like to steal Cozy's catnip and I think he was playing with her from the other world.
Now when Cozy passed away at age 16 - she died naturally - but all her life this cat and I could communicate telepathically. many is the time that Cozy warned me of impending danger - you know, little things. She would get this urgent tone to her meow and I knew that I needed to either stop what I was doing or in some cases go and follow her to what she wanted to show me. She knew when I was pregnant before I did. And tried to tell me too. She was very protective and possessive of me and of my son when he was born - she used to "wash" his head just like he was a kitten and I saw no reason at all to disallow it. Anyway, after Cozy died, she made it very well known to me that she was staying around as a spirit guide and to this day, that is exactly what she does. My encounters with her are all in the astral world, but she's there. She takes me on journeys to show me things - like symbols and signs - to help in solving dilemas. Almost I guess like a guardian angel, but in animal form. I know that I will never again in this lifetime have a cat like her or a bond like that with another animal. Now I have been to intuitive readers who I never saw in my life before I sat down with them and they have all seen Cozy too.
I hope this doesn't sound too crazy to you, but this is what I have experienced and continue to.

[ 10-18-2005, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Allison ]
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Posts: 637 | Registered: Jun 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:33:06 pm
Trent

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   posted 10-18-2005 11:33 PM                       
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Very cool pet stories, Allison & Mish! It's encouraged me to do some checking into animal ghosts. There are cases of that and they aren't always pleasant, too.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:33:45 pm
 
Mish

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  posted 10-19-2005 06:03 AM                       
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Allison - 'Crazy' doesn't get used much in my vocabulary after some of the stuff I've seen. :-)
I love your cat stories and am glad Trent is looking into it since two of the sightings I had in the haunted house I lived in here of a cat, then a dog. It was very strange when I had never even heard of, or thought about animals having 'spirits' at the time.

To be honest, Allison, I'm not even sure what a ghost is, and I've been looking into the phenomenon for about 20 years now. I believe there are different types of ghosts - some are residual (like a seeing an old, harmless recording)and some are definately NOT... like the ones who push people or who play pranks on them. So definitions differ depending on who you talk to.

I get the feeling that at Spring Cottage the ghost animals I saw were residual - not interactive. However, the images of PEOPLE I saw seemed to be trying to purposly get my attention, so I believe they were cognitive beings of somesort - certainly not a residual recording. I say 'ghosts' for lack of another term to describe what I saw, tho it has been suggested to me here that maybe the 'people' I saw were not ghosts, but spirit guides. The 3 people-visions I had at Spring Cottage always appeared right in front of me (about 2ft), looked light a muti-coloured light (I could see no features, only an image like what you see after you look away from a lightbulb and blink to still see the image - tho even then, I got the 'sense' all my sightings were male.)

I'm not so sure I believe in the spirit guide thing (there's that non commital thing again!Ha!) - but the descriptions of them, and sometimes of auras, more accurately describes what I saw than what many people who have seen 'traditional ghosts' have seen... the glowing form floating above the ground, or the more solid version that appears exactly lifelike... my sigtings looked like neither, so I've always wondered myself if I actually saw ghosts, or something else. I saw SOMETHING. That's all I know. :-)
It's been mentioned here that animals have a sort of fragment of a soul, so they are not possibly the reincarnation of Uncle Al or anything. Hmmmm. Well then, I wonder what happens to our pets when they die? I've heard of a seperate place where they wait for their dead owners, but that seems a little like wishful thinking to me. If their death is like ours, don't you think our pets would be more inclined to stay with us than go the the next plane since they normally have a huge loyalty factor - more so than most humans certainly! The is a monument near here to a dog who waited for every train for 4 years after his owner died, until he finally died himself. Pets are like that, and if so, are we always surrounded by our old pets, do you think?

Oh, and Allison, I'm curious...are you a medium?
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:34:11 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 10-19-2005 11:57 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Mish:
[QB] Pets are like that, and if so, are we always surrounded by our old pets, do you think?
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I think we are.


quote:
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Oh, and Allison, I'm curious...are you a medium?
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Not to my knowledge. I don't believe in channelling as in summoning spirits. They come to me if they so choose when I visit their world. I am more what you'd call a Light Worker, I guess. I recently had a very profound "class action" experience regarding these matters.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:34:41 pm
Mish

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  posted 10-20-2005 06:31 AM                       
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"Class Action?" What's that? I'd love to hear...

Also a little more detail on being a Light Worker would be interesting if you care to share... :-)

Do you 'see' spirits? If so, I'd be curious to hear what you see too. (Questions, questions...Sorry, it's a vice.)
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:35:03 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 10-20-2005 01:36 PM                       
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You mean do I "see" spirits in the physical world? No, not in the form where they would appear human as they were in life and with clothes on and all that, no I don't see that in the physical realm, but I do in the astral. I occasionally in the physical realm will see what could I suppose be described as "energy" - it doesn't have any form and I don't communicate with it. It's just there and I am there. As far as "hearing", it's mainly repercussion from the astral. I don't sit down to tea and conversation with the spirit world. When I am in their world it's more like a city and just people passing each other on the street, and there are times when I do have interaction or get tasked with something but I don't ever initiate the contact.

That's sort of where the Light Worker thing comes in. I'm a natural healer basically, I use energy/vibration to heal others - in both worlds. More commonly, I'm a chakra cleaner and go-fer for the angelic realm. Just doing the job I am contracted here to do.


quote:
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"Class Action?" What's that? I'd love to hear...
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I was tasked with healing a large number of souls the same time. It was the most painful thing I have ever done.

[ 10-20-2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Allison ]
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:35:33 pm
Aphrodite

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   posted 10-21-2005 11:02 PM                       
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quote:
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That's sort of where the Light Worker thing comes in. I'm a natural healer basically, I use energy/vibration to heal others - in both worlds. More commonly, I'm a chakra cleaner and go-fer for the angelic realm. Just doing the job I am contracted here to do.


quote:
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"Class Action?" What's that? I'd love to hear...
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I was tasked with healing a large number of souls the same time. It was the most painful thing I have ever done.
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Hi Allison,

This work sounds interesting, how did you come to realize this is what you were born to do? Is there some organization you are involved with, and, if so, which one?

"Tasked with healing a large number of souls," I'd certainly like to hear more about that if you're willing to tell.

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:36:01 pm
 
Allison
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   posted 10-22-2005 05:01 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Aphrodite:
This work sounds interesting, how did you come to realize this is what you were born to do? Is there some organization you are involved with, and, if so, which one?
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No organisation - I don't believe in them because most of them are just after one's money. I became aware as a child, around age 10. That is when I first remember these experiences starting to take place. While my peers' lives were revolving around barbie dolls and heart throbs from magazines, I buried myself in books, reading all the time to search for meaning. I started with the encyclopaedias and got a good overview then started picking out things to study further and would spend all of my money on books, all of which I still have. I started by reading about all different religions (belief systems), as well as science and as I got older I put things together. My high school library had an abundance of books on esoteric subjects and over those 4 years I read every last one of them. At age 16 I met a friend, my "mentor", a wonderful man about my mother's age and he taught me to hone my skills of visualisation and moving energy - "magickal" skills they call them these days. He taught me the Tarot, but not in a divinatory manner - I learned it as the text book it is. I learned more about myself and the universe than I could even begin to tell about. At age 19 I spent some time at a Buddhist commune in New Orleans, visiting there to learn TM from them. That is probably the most valuable skill I've ever learned. At age 22 I got married and moved to London. My mentor told me that my time with him as a student was completed and that in my life in England I would come to understand my path much clearer and know what my purpose is in this life and what was expected of me. Nine years I spent in England and travelled a lot. I was subjected to a lot of different kinds of vibrations and experiences. I realised that I was a healer and through the oddest way - my doctor there - she was a conventional doctor, but her heart was in holistic medicine and she never one gave me a pill to take for anything, she taught me to heal myself with herbs and energy. Now this is acceptable in UK, but it would NEVER happen in USA. This sparked my interest in healing and I set out to master these skills. I occasionally seek counsel with people skilled in doing past life regression and intuitive readings. I never go to the same person twice and I always choose someone I have never seen before until that moment that I sit down with them. I usually choose readers who are at expos I attend, although I was at Islands of Adventure one saturday and felt extremely drawn to a reader there who gave me what was probably the very best reading in my life. One day I was tested to see what TYPE of soul I am and I was stunned to find that I scored 100% as a "starperson". I never figured myself as one. As the details of what a starperson is were explained to me, I was speechless. Then things started to click and I looked back on my life and understood with crystal clarity exactly why I am here and what had been building all these years. You see, I am not here for my own selfish reasons, my role is to help, heal and teach and that is precisely what I dedicate my life to doing. I am an early indigo and understand my role there too. I am here in the service of humanity - period. I ask very little for myself.


quote:
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"Tasked with healing a large number of souls," I'd certainly like to hear more about that if you're willing to tell. [/QB]
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I will explain this one when I have more time.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:36:22 pm
 
Aphrodite

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   posted 10-28-2005 11:56 PM                       
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Hi Allison,

It sounds like you've led a very interesting and exciting life. I think it's wonderful you've lived abroad. A lot of Americans get caught up in the "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to the rest of the world. In my view, they (we) often lack cultural experience. Live abroad and you find that the differences between us and the others are minor, and that we have things we can learn from them. It's my hope to visit the land of my ancestors (Scandinavia) myself someday.

So, how do you go about healing souls?
And how can you even tell if a soul needs healing?

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:36:45 pm
 
Aphrodite

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   posted 10-29-2005 12:01 AM                       
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I don't know if I ever told anyone this, but my parents were both killed in an auto accident when I was at an early age. I've lived most of my life with my Grandmother.

I wonder, at what point do the dead, wherever they are at, begin to lose interest in the living, five years? Ten years?

I wonder if my parents, wherever they are, are still interested in me..?

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:37:21 pm
Mish

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  posted 10-29-2005 07:00 AM                       
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Aphrodite - Some say your loved ones come and get you when you die to escort you to the other side and make it easier for you to make the transition. If this is true, than my money is on your parents waiting for you, even if you were very small when they died. As a mother, I would wait a million lifetimes if I had to for one of my kids, and I'm SURE all the other mom's out there, including yours, feel no different. If it is possible Aphroditie, your mom and dad are near you. Trust me. When you have a baby one day you will know it too.
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Posts: 201 | From: Montana | Registered: Jun 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:37:52 pm
 
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 10-31-2005 02:24 PM                       
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Happy Halloween, everybody.
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:39:16 pm
Allison
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   posted 11-01-2005 06:46 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Aphrodite:
I don't know if I ever told anyone this, but my parents were both killed in an auto accident when I was at an early age. I've lived most of my life with my Grandmother.

I wonder, at what point do the dead, wherever they are at, begin to lose interest in the living, five years? Ten years?

I wonder if my parents, wherever they are, are still interested in me..?
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That is tragic - I cannot imagine the pain you felt. Know one thing, they'll NEVER lose interest in you. My Grandfather passed away 41 years ago, at the age of 42, when I was 3 years old. At the time I was his ONLY grandchild and my Grandmother tells me that he absolutely worshipped me. I have memories of him, but I cannot remember him dying. It's like I remember him and then he died when I was 3, not long before my 4th birthday but the next memory I have is my first day of Kindergarten - age 5. I grew up unable to understand why I cannot remember my Grandfather's death and nobody would speak to me about this period of time. When I was about 20, one of my great-aunts told me that they all pleaded with my Mom NOT to take me to the funeral because I was too young. She insisted to take me and my aunt said the thing that was far sadder than the whole tragedy of my Grandfather's death and shock of it was watching MY reaction. She said that I kept screaming and cying that I wanted my Paw-Paw. I was beyond hysterical. NOW I know why can't remember anything about that time.
Anyway, my Gradfather has been there with me all through my life over the past 41 years. He was a building contractor and his trade was laying floors. I laid tile floor in my entire house here - and have had people want to PAY me to tile their floors because mine came out so well - and one day my husband asked me who taught me to lay tile and you know, I thought, and NOBODY taught me how to lay tile floors - well, nobody in the PHYSICAL realm, that is. I just kind of knew what to do. I DID ask my Grandfather to guide me though.  And you know, he still visits me - in fact he came to the silent supper on this past saurday. He's always there and will be until he reincarnates. I think you can expect the same from your parents. They are there close by and I bet that if you think hard, you can come up with a lot of seemingly mundane, yet "strange" experiences from your past that you possibly blew off as just "weird" to verify that. Tell me Aphrodite - do you open yourself to the idea of receiving them?
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:39:37 pm
rockessence

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   posted 11-01-2005 09:07 PM                       
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Aphro,

Allison is right on there....You and your loved ones are always connected. Every time you think of them there is a signal or sort of a "yank on the cord" that happens. If you find yourself thinking of them and send a warm feeling of love to them, you will probably find that the feeling grows and surrounds you.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:40:10 pm
Aphrodite

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   posted 11-01-2005 11:06 PM                       
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Allison, Mish & Rockessence,

Thanks so much for your kind words, I would never have expected so much of a response, especially in this forum, where I often see only acrimony. I was only twelve when my parents both died in the car crash, it happened a little over ten years ago. At times, I did feel them both watching over me. But you know what? I haven't felt it recently, which is why I asked. These days, I feel overly-burdened by responsibility and so maybe I'm not as open to it as I was. These days, real life intrudes too often upon the person I would like to be. I work, go to school, take care of my grand-mother. Most of the time, I'm alone and most of the time, I feel alone, too. I don't think I'm unique, though, sometimes, we all probably feel that way.

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:40:36 pm
rockessence

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   posted 11-02-2005 10:29 AM                       
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Aphro, you are never alone.

http://www.saintgermainfoundation.com/body2.htm

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:41:02 pm
Aphrodite

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   posted 11-25-2005 09:49 PM                       
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Thank you, Rockessence, and thanks to everyone else for their kind thoughts.

I apologize for my recent absence lately, but have spent all my time taking care of my Granny lately, and the time I have left to myself, I usually feel so tired and drained.

The dead have it easy, if you ask me.

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:41:30 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 12-10-2005 07:52 PM                       
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HOW GHOSTS CONTACT US
Ghosts connect to you by affecting one or more of your senses:


VISUAL:
Spirit manifests for you as an ectoplasmic being
You look in a mirror and see an ectoplasmic shape thought the ghost is not visible in the room
Electric lights or appliances flickering on and off in the room
Peripheral vision - you see spirit out of the side of your field of vision
A object in the room moves - that is linked to the ghost - such a picture of the ghost when it was in a corporeal body


SMELL:
Floral fragrances - which are the most commons
A scent associated with the spirit. For example - if the spirit smoked cigars while in a physical body - you might smell a cigar scent in the room.


TOUCH:
A tickling sensation on your body - could be a kiss or a touch by spirit
A pressure on top of your head (which means the opening of your crown chakra to receive messages)
A chill on the back of the neck or head---->hair standing up on your body
A cold breeze passing through the room


HEARING:
Noise - Spirit turns on an electric appliance - usually linked to them.
Rappings include thumping, knocking, tapping or bumping. In ancient times rapping was thought of as an omen of approaching death.
Ghost phone calls from a deceased soul - usually a family member. It usually means that the deceased soul wants to impart a farewell message. Many such calls occur on days of importance such as Mothers Day, holidays or birthdays. People who have received phone calls from the dead report that the voices are often exactly the same as when the person was living. The telephone rings normally but the connection has static. The voice of the deceased tends to grow fainter as the call progresses. Sometimes the voice fades away completely. In some very interesting cases the call is placed long distance and connected by an operator. Checking with the telephone company usually turns up no evidence of a call on their records.

Phone calls are sometimes placed to the dead as well. A person places a call to someone only to find out later that the person was already dead at the time of the call.

http://crystalinks.com/disincarnate.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:43:22 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 12-10-2005 08:37 PM                       
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Messages From Out Of Body Experiences


An out-of-body experience (or OBE, or OOBE) is characterized by subjective perception from a vantage point outside of one¹s physical body. It is sometimes associated with near-death experiences, hypnopompic or hypnagogic dreams, mystical trances or occult phenomena and psychoactive drugs.

An OBE may be contrasted with astral projection, which does not require the perception of one's own body from the outside. Astral projection does not typically posit that one's consciousness or soul is actually traveling through our day-to-day physical reality. An OBE may also be contrasted with dreaming, lucid or otherwise, by the intense perception of being awake and aware of the reality of the experience.

Not every OBE has exactly the same aspects, and it may be that there are several different types of OBE that have different causes and meanings. Some observations can be made based on collections of firsthand accounts of "spontaneous" OBEs - those that were not part of a planned program to induce the experience.

In the great majority of cases, the subject reported being asleep, on the verge of sleep, or having been asleep shortly before. A fairly large percentage of these cases refer to situations where this sleep is not particularly deep (due to illness, noises in other rooms, emotional stress, exhaustion from overworking, frequent re-awakening, etc.).

In some cases, the feeling of being outside the body is something that is suddenly realized after the fact; they see their bodies almost by accident. In other cases, they either will themselves out of their bodies or find themselves being pulled from their bodies (these are usually preceded by the feeling of paralysis).

The OBE is not generally long; on the order of a minute or so. Those who experience OBE may note that the subjective experience is much longer than the objective time passing.

The OBE may or may not be followed by other experiences which are self-reported as being "as real" as the OBE feeling; alternatively, they may fade out into a state self-reported as dreaming, or they may wake completely.

The OBE is sometimes ended by a fearful feeling of getting "too far away" from the body.

Many of these OBEs end with a feeling of suddenly "popping" or "snapping" back into their bodies.

Some people experience spiritual epiphanies; others experience a general feeling of peacefulness and love; still others experience fearfulness and anxiety. Finally, some experience only the OBE itself, with no direct spiritual experience.

A majority describe the end of the experience as "then I woke up". Thuup

Comparing the experience to that of lucid dreaming, it feels more real.

Opinions regarding the objective reality of OBEs are mixed. An appreciable number of people believe the phenomenon is exactly what it feels like, and that the soul is leaving the body and exploring. Many OBE accounts are positive that the usual explanation, that the experience was a dream, is insufficient; and often cite the experience as having a spiritual effect.

Despite claims of some "projectors" who aver that they can initiate the experience at will, there is to date no reliable evidence that any imagery or information acquired during the experience could not have come from normal sources.

While the subjective experience may be very compelling, most skeptics discount the idea that the phenomenon is somehow linked to an actual physical relocation of consciousness. They note that, in the absence of the typical conviction that the experience is real, these experiences would simply be considered dreams; and that lacking hard evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation would be that the experiencer's sense of heightened reality, however powerful, is a subjective one.

In support of this idea, some neurologists point to experiments in the context of treatment of epilepsy involving electrical stimulus of a particular part of the brain, the right angular gyrus located in the parietal lobe, which produce subjective experiences having all of the hallmarks of an OBE, including the sense of enhanced reality and extreme disembodiment. This evidence, as well as similar results involving use of the drug ketamine, support the hypothesis that at least some OBEs are caused by an unusual but natural brain state in which one's body perception and sense of reality are altered.

Skeptics also point to the increasing body of evidence which ties mental functions such as perception and memory to exclusively physical processes which occur in the brain; and note that no known mechanism would account for how these processes could occur at a distance (the mind-body problem). However in some instances, such as patients during surgery, people describe out of body experiences in which they see something they could not possibly have seen while under anesthesia (for instance, one woman accurately described a surgical instrument she had not seen previously, as well as conversation that occurred while she was clinically dead).

OBE's cannot be disproved, but there is no solid evidence that anyone has actually left their body. Many experiencers have made detailed observations they reportedly could not have made by any other means, but these have not yet been studied to the satisfaction of the scientific community.

Messages received from out of body experiences generally are in the form of symbols or archetypes that you may or may not recognize at first.

Voluntary OBE's take time and practice. Remember that we are all having multidimensional experiences and that there is no linear time - therefore your consciousness can travel anywhere in he grids that form our reality matrixes.

Messages from OBE's can also come from antyhignin the rgid taking the more common forms of ...

- Someone you consider a teacher in a higher realm

- Spirit Guides

- Ascended Master

- ET's

- Angels or God figures

- Deceased loved ones


http://crystalinks.com/out_of_body.html
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:44:19 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:44 PM                       
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Spirit Guides are entities - physical and non-physical - who have chosen to aid others on the path to spiritual enlightenment as we are about to ascend to higher light - the evolution of consciousness - our natural state of being.

You may sometimes see a spark of light before you that blinks in and out for just a second. That is a soul spark. That is YOU.

You are frequency. Spirit guides are higher frequency. It's like turning on a television or radio - one need only adjust the station to the matching frequency to connect.

Connection is usually telepathic unless your spirit guide uses some form of telekinesis to move objects or manifest objects to reinforce their connection with you.

There are many ways to communicate with spirit guides. We label thisChanneling.

Also go to the files Messages From Other Realms.

Many spirit guides have had incarnations on the physical plane, as well as other realms. They, like yourself, exist multidimensionally.

Spirit guides are often your polar opposite - the other part of your soul which remains on the other side in higher frequency as your soul experiences in third dimension. We call this the duality of your soul experience. Soul Mates - Twin Flames

Spirit Guides may remain with you for a lifetime, or may may come and go depending on your needs and where they are needed.

As they exist in higher frequency - they are beings of light that may physically appear to you in humanoid form so you mind can conceptualize them better.

Spirit Guides sometimes show up as ectoplasmic forms - in photos or for you to see with your own eyes.

Spirit guides may be viewed as extraterrestrial entities who link you with another aspect of your soul experiencing in another reality. Remember that our souls is having many experiences at the same time in many relams of reality. Here in the third dimension most people are unable to conceptualize that idea as 3D thinking is too limitted using 10% of the brain - etc..

We all have at least one spirit guides. They vary in number.

Each guide generally comes in for a specific purpose in your life -

- Help you heal your issues and restore you to balance - Bring deceased loved one to you for closure or other emotional reasons - Help you with the spiritual mission you sense - Help with your creative work - Show you past/parallel lives - Soul Mate

Some guides stay with you for your entire experience in your present body. Others stay for many years then leave. You can ask a spirit guide to leave if you so chose. You can attract to your energies fields other guides.

Spirit guides 'speak' to you in many ways. Sometimes they are the little voice you hear in your head - your thoughts.

Often times they speak to you in dream state, meditation, altered states of consciousness, through the synchronistic things that occur in your life, through, art, music, dance, or acting.

If they really want to make a point they will create a synchronicity in your life so you will sit up and take notice. Synchronicities, in general, are experiences created by your soul to bring you into greater awareness of what is occurring in your life.

YOU and/or your spirit guides create the synchronicity in a higher realm - then you manifest it in third dimension. If you meet someone by accident - it is because your soul and theirs has made a decision to meet. There are no accidents. Everything is part of a giant web - sacred geometric blueprint.

Spirit guides travel interdimensionally as they have no physical form.

We are more aware of meeting them when we sleep. At that time we remove our consciousness from third dimension - moving to faster moving frequency - faster than the speed of light to connect with that other realms of existence.

It is here that we work with our spirit guides and plan what we will do in the physical realms when we return to 'wakefulness' - place our conscious mind back in our physical bodies - when we get up. Some seem dream time as Real Time - as that is where the true decisions are made. In third dimension we play out the events - hence this is dream time.


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Meeting Your Spirit Guides
Meeting your spirit guides is a form of channeling. As with all channeling - this is not for everyone. If you have deep emotional problems - or find the guides you connect with to be negative or bring negative messages - please stop channeling. These exercises are to bring light and information. They could trigger your fears and cause anxiety if you want your answers to be ONLY the way you want your life to run. It is meant to help you talk to spirit in the light. It means that they will address things with you in a way that you understand - and is in your best interests based on your soul needs.

http://crystalinks.com/spirit_guides.html
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:44:51 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

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   posted 12-10-2005 08:45 PM                       
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Day One: Listening and Viewing
You are going to ask non personal Yes or No questions for the first few days. All questions can ONLY be asked ONCE.

Telepathic communication with spirit is called clairaudience which is communcation by thoughtform - and Clairvoyance - communication by imagery on the screen in behind your forehead - or for the more advanced - images images in front of you or in your mind. When you communicate in this mnner your open the pineal gland.

They may be accompanied by physical sensations such as:

- pressure on top of your head. This is the opening of the crown chakra.

- a sensation on the left side of the body or face. This is the right side of the brain - the intuitive side - opening.


Sit down in a quiet place. You do not have to prepare as you would for meditation. You may do this with your eyes open or closed - whatever helps you focus more easily. Today you are going to listen to your thoughts....

Think Hello!

Relax and allow the answer to come naturally.

You should hear a thought message with an affirmative answer.

We are going to test this by asking 'yes/no questions' that are not personal.

Think - Is it sunny today?

You should hear the answer.

Is today Sunday?

Continue with one or two more non-personal questions that can answered with Yes or No.

You are adjusting your brain to 'listening' for messages.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:45:21 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:46 PM                       
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Day 2: Getting to Know your Spirit Guide
Use only Yes or No questions. You may want to have a paper and pen close by to write down a name of message.

Practice with non-personal questions again. Ask...pause...listen with your mind. You connect telepathically - the movement of ideas through frequency in thoughform.

Hello

You should sense a greeting.

Think I would like to know your name.

If you have trouble understanding the name - listen hard - then come as close to what you 'hear' as you can. Spirit will accept whatever name you give. Some names are long and make have to be shortened - or a letter of the alphabet substituted.

May I call you _____? You will sense that the name is correct.

Once you get a name you sense is right for you and your spirit guide - proceed on to other telepathic questions.

Are you ready to answer questions?

Wait for an affirmative answer. It should be immediate.

You should ask questions about this spirit guide and their place in your life. What is their function? What is their connection to you? What can you do to find your mission? How many spirit guides do I have.

You can write down questions and answers.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:45:45 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:47 PM                       
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Day 3 - Past Lives with your Guide
Prepare questions. Get comfortable. Greet your spirit guide. More 'yes / no' questions.

Did we know each other in a past life? Were we family?

Ask the about the nature of the relationship? Wife- husband? Mother - child?

Have we been together more than once? More than 5 times? Etc.

Ask questions about the times spent together.

Have I we ever reversed rules wherein I was your spirit guide while you lived on the Earth plane? Have you always been in my life - in this incarnation?


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Day 4 - The Universe
Prepare a set of 'yes - no' questions pertaining to the Universe. Do not ask personal questions at this time.

Sample questions:

Did Earth ever exist in another dimension?

Is there life on other planets?

Do entities watch us from UFO's?

Were you ever an alien?

Are there angels?

Do they have a heirachy?

Do they help souls move to the next realms?


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005 
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:46:07 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:50 PM                       
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Day 6 - Reality and Other Dimensions
Ask only Yes or No questions

Are there many dimensions?

Are there entities in those dimensions?

Can a soul exist in more than one dimension?

Does the future co-exist with the past and present?

Is this reality a holographic projection?

Do we have free will?


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Day 6 - Getting Personal
By now you should feel comfortable with your guide.

Today we will begin some personal spiritual questions. Do not ask about your romantic life or job! We will basically ask 'yes - no' questions. Some easy questions may be asked that require explanation.

Are you my only spirit guide?

How many do I have?

I would like to meet another guide today. Please have another guide come to talk with me.

What is your name?

Do you work with - - - (name the first guide)?

What is your function in my life? This can be asked of both guides.

Am I on the right spiritual path?

Will you guide me to the next part of my spirit journey?

Should I be working as a healer?

Do I meditate enough?

Do I need to take classes to guide me?

Will you lead me to a book or home page to further learn what I have to?

Is my current teacher - if you have one - OK? - Or is it time to move on?

Do I need to move to a new location to find my destiny? If yes - name places - still ask only 'yes - no' answers.

Continue questions. Take notes. DO NOT ask for long detailed explanations.

It might be fun to ask a question of each guide to see if you can tell the difference in their frequency thus getting more familiar with them. Address your guides by name. For those who have been listen to their guides for years - without realizing that they were connecting to spirit - this will be easy. They will say, "Ah! that is the one who has been telling me all of those jokes in my mind - all of those years. You will remember back to spirit - guiding you through various decisions, boring situations, saving your life, other times. Take your time with this. There is no hurry! Spirit has no 'time' table.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:46:28 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

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   posted 12-10-2005 08:51 PM                       
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Day 7 - Biological or Adopted Family Relationships
Your greates karma is with your family - or those close to you who are like family to you. Sometimes these people remain in our lives forever and other times they they stay for a while and move on for reasons we may or may not understand.

Today we will focus on the subject of your biological or adopted family relationships. This is NOT to reference your love life, marriage, family you have created as an adult.

We will ask only Yes and No questions.

"Tune in' to your guide mentally - adjust your frequency to theirs.

You may greet your guide in any way you wish.

Sample questions:

Are members of my biological family from my past lives? Give names? If you are adopted - use this for biolgical and adopted family members.

Ask various questions about the members of your family in relationship to you and to each other.

It is fine to discuss members of the family who have passed over.

Ex. - Is the soul of - - - (Person is deceased) - the same soul as - - - (person is living)?

Do I have my strongest karma in this lifetime with - - - - -names given.

Did - - - (name) - - and I have a bad relationship in another lifetime? Do I own him / her something karmically? Is that karmic debt over? If yes - Can I release that family member from my life now?

Is my main karma in this lifetime to be the Caretaker of - - -(name person - usually the parent).

Does my soul have other biological families other than the one I know in 3D?

Is this another aspect of my soul experiencing on 3D now?

Is this in another realm?

If you believe you are a walk- in, ask about all family members - theirs and yours.

I have dreamed of parents on another planet - is this a reality? Past life? Parallel life?

- - - - -(name) - abused me as a child. Can I forgive (name) and balance the energies now?

Adoption questions:

Is my biological mother alive? Ask further about her - your father - siblings. Do I need to find them for karmic reasons? Will I find them? Does my biological mother want to know me?

You can include questions about foster parents if you feel connected.

Don't forget grandparents - and other relatives you knew while growing up.

Ask your guide if a deceased member of the family is available to speak with you. Ex. Can you bring my mother to speak with me?

You may have to pause to wait for another spirit to arrive.

You may smell flowers, or have other sensory experiences.

If you need to ask forgiveness about something - this is the time to do so.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:46:49 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:53 PM                       
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Day 8 - Your Career / Job
Today we will be continuing with 'yes-no' questions. I know that many readers want to address their love life - but after we worked with family issues yesterday I would prefer to move to a subject that is not as emotionally based today. Though the work place can have many emotional issues attached to it.

Begin with a greeting to your guide and perhaps prepare a list of questions for today.

I am psyching that some of your answers are not a clear cut 'yes or no'. In that case - the information has yet to be determined based on other factors. We will move past 'yes or no' questions next week. We still want to keep things easy and direct.

Begin with a greeting to your guide. You may chose the same guide each day or ask for another guide. This does not mean that you can ask them each the same question. There is generally one main guide who is a partner to you and would be the one who you would address.

You can tell your guide that you are here today to discuss your job / career - but in all probability - he / she already knows that.

Sample questions:

Is the career I have chosen a lifetime career?

Will I have various changes in careers in this lifetime?

Will I have jobs or should I go to school and train for a career?

Women: Would I truly be happier at home raising a family and changing diapers? Would I be happier working part time?

To find my career - do I need formal education? training?

Am I best suited to be a - create a list of desired job choices.

(I know that most people would like to own their business - but you have to be realistic when asking that question.)

Businesses: Would I do better alone? With one partner? Two partners? Can I trust - - - ??

Will my business merge? Evolve into something else? Fail?

Is my job a 'dead-end' job?

Does my boss appreciate my work? Do I have personal conflict in the office?

Will my race / ethnic background, etc. impede my chances for finding my suited career? - to move upward in my career?

Am I settling for less than I could be because I am lazy?

Am I smarter than I realize?

Could I return to school after years of absence?

Can I find a career that I am 'passionate' with?

I want to work in Metaphysics. Can I earn a living working in that field? Can I work part time in metaphysics?

Will I get a promotion in 1999? 2000? other?

Will I stay at this job until I retire?

Will there be a 'buy-out'?

Can I work from home? With my computer?

You will think of dozens of questions.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:47:19 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:54 PM                       
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Day 9 - My Love Life
You are finally ready to ask 'yes - no' questions about your love life. Now this is where things get tricky as the ego always 'kicks in' here.

Remember first answers count!

You are ready to begin.

Sample questions if you have a partner now . . .

Is - - - (name partner) my soul mate?

Are we together because we have karma to work out?

Do I owe - - - a karmic debt? Does - - - - owe me a debt? Do we both owe each other?

Is - - - my lifetime partner or will I have another?

Is my partner growing spiritual as I am? Is this important to keeping us together?

Have we grown apart?

Am I holding on to a relationship that is over?

Does - - - - really love me?

Can - - - - love in a spiritual way?

Does my low self esteem enter the picture?

Why do I stay with - - - ? Name choices - money - children - scared to live alone - other.

If you are gay you can ask . . .

Is there a reason I came in gay? Genetic? karmic?

Was I prejudiced in a past life?

Are there learning lesson here?

Does my soul prefer a male - (or female) role?

Is this the first time I came in gay?

Am I a gay male to hold female frequency, which I would not be able to do if I was straight?

Am I afraid to admit that I am gay?

If you are single you could ask . . .

Will I find a soul mate?

Does my soul mate exist on the Earth plane now - in a physical body?

Is my soul mate my spirit guide?

Will I marry? - live with someone - ?

Do I need therapy to maintain a relationship?

Do I sabotage relationships?

Will I ever have a child (if childless).

Is the life time commitment partner what I really want - or would I prefer to change partners as my needs and theirs change?

Would my soul's needs best be met - by living alone? with a mate?

I have searched for a partner all of my life. I am now 40 and have never met the perfect partner. Is this because - I am too picky? I really don't have a partner here? I will not marry?

Is my destiny on Earth other than marriage and children?

Is my karma - parental caretaker?


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:47:44 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:56 PM                       
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Day 10 - Your Love Life
Today we will talk to spirit but seek detailed answers. Only the first answer is the correct answer.

I am sure that many readers have already moved into conversations with their guides - but for those who have no - let us begin today.

Decide on the guide you wish to work with. Prepare a few questions or subjects to discuss. Greet your guide. Take notes.

Sample questions if single . . .

Do I have a soul mate out there? Describe him / her to me . . . physical description - age - career - astrological sign - where the person lives.

How will we meet? internet? introduction? social occasion? chance meeting? other?

Will that person be ready for a full time commitment? If not - why?

Tell me about past lives with that person?

I have just met - - - - - ? Is this my true soul mate? Ask detailed questions.

If married . . . ask why you and - - - - are together - karma? love? soul mates? money? afraid to be alone? discuss with your guide.


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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:48:49 pm
Sandra Taylor

Member
Member # 2492

Member Rated:
   posted 12-10-2005 08:57 PM                       
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Day 11 - My Goals in Life
Time for 'yes-no' questions about your goals in life. Next week we go for questions other than 'yes-no'. Had to fix up my Spirt Guide file yesterday. Fixed up automatic writing as well.

By now you should sense that your guide is near you and ready to answer your questions. Greet him / her in whatever way you chose.

Sample questions.

Are my goals in life realistic?

Should I see the 'sky the limit' when creating my goals?

Do I need to change my goals pertaining to - love life? marriage? work? other?

Will I ever realize my goals?

Think of other questions.


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Day 12 - Job Questions and detailed answers . . .

Today we are going to ask job questions with more detailed answers. Let's begin . . .

Am I working in the right career? If not, what would you suggest?

Am I emotionally capable of going back to school to further my career? Ask for suggestions for courses?

If someone is bothering you at work - ask what you can do to balance the situation - other than quitting.

Is a co-worker 'back stabbing' me? Find out why.

Continue a line of questions about career - job - relocation - your emotional aspects connected to your job.


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http://crystalinks.com/spirit_guides.html
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:49:13 pm
Byron
unregistered


  posted 03-04-2006 04:51 PM                 
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Lights, Camera... Action!
By Brian Leffler

What is the most important part of a paranormal investigation? Actually, there are two parts to it that are equally important. One is the equipment itself and the other is the integrity of the evidence collected. I am going to explain both points and the methods used by the Northern Minnesota Paranormal Investigators (N.M.P.I.) to collect evidence. After all, the reason we all do paranormal investigations in the first place is to collect evidence of what happens when we die…if anything, of course.

Ok, you have a few friends together and you want to go out and track down a few ghosts. What are you looking for? Most likely some still photographs? Perhaps some Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP), or maybe you are interested in recording some videotape? Perhaps you would like to do it all in a full-scale investigation. This is the way that N.M.P.I. does it. Full scale. All the time.

What type of equipment do you want to take along with you? Well, for an N.M.P.I. member, it is anything analog. We use 35mm cameras with 400-speed film. We do not allow any digital cameras to come anywhere near our investigation. Digital cameras are not trustworthy for evidence collection. They have problems with their chips inside, they compensate on every shot you take to give you the best shots possible. Basically, from the second that you push the button to take the picture, your evidence is tainted and not worth a hill of beans. They also are great at creating orbs in your picture even if a location is not haunted. During the Christmas of 2005, I used my digital camera (yes I do own one) at two separate Christmas programs at the high school. This school has never had any kind of haunting reports to anyone’s knowledge. The other place I used this camera was in my home on Christmas. I took a total of 33 pictures. Out of the 33 pictures I took, 26 of them had at least one orb in the shot. Granted film isn’t perfect either but I have never come close to anything like that before with a film camera. Another reason to stay away from digital is the fact that it leaves you with no “tangible” evidence. With film, you have a negative that can be scrutinized by any professional. You can determine if the anomaly in your photo is something that the camera actually saw or if it was an error in processing. If you photograph an object toward one edge of your picture, you can take in the negative and have them move over and capture the entire anomaly that the camera saw. With digital, you have no options. You get a picture that only exists in the camera and on your computer with nothing at all that can be scrutinized. The team from N.M.P.I. has the negative to every paranormal photograph we have ever collected.

View N.M.P.I.'s photo gallery here: www.nmpi-scary.com/Photo_Gallery.html

Now that we are ready to take still photographs, let’s get ready to record some EVP. I think that EVP is about the most interesting form of evidence that there is. Ok, I love videotape too but hey, it is in the top two. We use your standard everyday cassette tape recorder with a remote microphone. Nothing fancy, it doesn’t have to be. We use each tape only one time and it must be brand new and right out of the wrapper when we start recording. We never flip over a tape and use the second side as that can lead to bleed-through which is just as bad as the archival noise that occurs on digital recorders. Archival noise is something previously recorded that didn’t erase completely and is now coming through on your recording. You think that you have an EVP but it was just your conversation with your sister that you recorded. The only way that a digital recorder would be sufficient for paranormal investigations is if you were to replace the memory stick each time you record and use it only one time like we do with our cassette tapes.

Listen to some of N.M.P.I.'s EVP here: www.nmpi-scary.com/EVP.html

Now, we are shooting film and recording the voices of ghosts…well…hopefully anyway. It’s time to set up a camera and perhaps (as N.M.P.I. did in 2003), capture us an apparition on videotape. We at N.M.P.I. use two different methods of achieving this goal. One is through the use of a Sony Handycam that is set on the "nightshots" setting. The other method is a security camera that shoots in infrared and is recorded directly to a standard VCR. This works very well and has captured some really great shots!

That is the basics. How about a few extras that are not absolutely necessary but everyone loves getting a new toy to play with? My first extra was an infrared thermometer. N.M.P.I. never leaves home without it. This thing is very accurate and can tell you just how much a temperature rises or lowers. We don’t consider anything out of the ordinary unless it is a 10 degree difference in either direction. Ok, you might ask “What about EMF meters? I see them on every television show.” Yes, you do see ghost hunters running around following this little box and yelling out the readings as they track something around. N.M.P.I. has one but seldom uses it. They are great if they are used in an area that is dead (no pun intended) -- meaning that there is not any electrical feed into the building, etc. Then when you get your base line reading, it is pretty much nothing on the meter. When you have live electricity in a house or building, it is too easy to be picking up that electrical source and doesn’t give you readings that are for sure accurate. That being said, you can use them as a guide. If you believe that you have a good reading on the meter, take a photograph, or point a video camera in that direction, but as a general rule I do not assume that the results are necessarily paranormal. A regular compass can give you the same results at a much cheaper price.

We are now armed to the teeth for capturing that elusive ghost. What do we do with the evidence that we have collected? We take our photos in to be developed and usually get started right away on the video and audio. For the audio, we go through it about two minutes at a time running it through Cool Edit Pro -- a software program that allows us to study each segment. We are able to listen carefully to it, filter out any static that needs filtering, and save the audio to the computer to share with the world. Keep in mind that we always have the original tape and can play that at any time or have it scrutinized. Videotape is watched by at least two N.M.P.I. investigators at the same time. This helps us to not miss anything at all since paranormal anomalies can happen very quickly. Once we have discovered anything that looks “out of the ordinary,” we download it into a video program (we use Windows Movie Maker) and then examine the footage frame-by-frame. We will always have the videotape. Once the pictures come back, look at them very closely for any anomaly. Scan them into the computer where you can lighten and zoom to see if you have something explainable or not. Always keep every negative! I cannot stress that enough. It is very important.

That is how the investigators at N.M.P.I. go about routine business and the equipment we use. I certainly hope that all of you get out there and collect some great evidence to advance the field of paranormal study but don’t forget to be safe and have some fun while you are at it.


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Brian Leffler is the founder of the Northern Minnesota Paranormal Investigators (N.M.P.I.), is a regular contributor to Ghostvillage.com, and a Town Council Moderator in our site's message board community. Visit the N.M.P.I. Web site at: www.nmpi-scary.com.

http://www.ghostvillage.com/legends/index.shtml 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:50:05 pm
Byron
unregistered


  posted 03-04-2006 05:02 PM                 
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My First Ghost Hunt
By Jeff Belanger

Still on my quest to come face-to-face with a spirit, I recently went on my first ghost hunt. I have been to my share of haunted places, but I have never gone on an actual investigation where the owners of a place were seeking help with their ghostly tenants. I contacted Andrew Laird, a ghost hunter for the past 28 years and the founder of The Rhode Island Paranormal Research Group (TRIPRG), and I went along with members of his organization to investigate the Captain Peter Greene house (circa 1720) in Warwick, Rhode Island.

I certainly had my reservations about going on a "ghost hunt," because the very idea can conjure up images of thrill-seeking teenagers running through graveyards with Ouija boards and trying to scare each other. My fears began to subside when Laird emailed me his group's "code of conduct" and handed me a confidentiality agreement upon arriving at the investigation site.

I arrived at the house just prior to 9:00 P.M. on a Saturday night. Inside, I met the owners, whom I will refer to only as Christine and Dennis (to protect their privacy). The house is incredibly charming -- the couple are currently restoring the house to look as close as possible to what it must have looked like in the mid-1700s. There are wooden plank floors, low doorways, steep staircases, and the individual rooms are bathed in low candlelight. The outside of the property features two unknown graves marked only by blank fieldstones in the backyard near a wooden fence.

To prepare for the ghost investigation, I spoke to Richard Southall, author of How to Be a Ghost Hunter (2003, Llewellyn). I asked Southall why one would want to be a ghost hunter and he said, "Sometimes people want to do scientific investigations of it -- they want to actually be able to capture the apparition on film and on audio. Then there is the psychic aspect of it -- trying to communicate with the spirit. Others may want to do it for the historical research -- they may want to try and identify the ghost."

Southall's advice for getting into this field was, "A membership to an organization is very important. To be affiliated with an organization adds to the professionalism and the credentials of the people doing the investigations."

The reasons for being a ghost hunter vary among each individual doing the research, but a common thread I have found is that most seem to have had a personal experience somewhere in their lives that got them interested in learning more. But what about the people who are suffering through a haunting and are seeking a ghost hunter? What should they be looking for? Southall said, "Level-headedness. I've seen a lot of ghost hunters in the past jump to conclusions and automatically make a worst-case scenario out of something. A haunting victim should get respect and be able to express their concerns, their fears, and their story."

Certainly some people want independent verification that they're not crazy. Christine told me about some of the experiences she has had since she and her husband bought the Captain Peter Greene house two years ago: "A lot of activity focuses around my baby daughter. Music will play in her bedroom, her mobile will spin -- and the batteries are completely dead. The house is uneven, so a lot of the doors automatically close [on a spring], but there's been times when the doors will open -- and you have to push it against the spring for it to open. You can hear voices and footsteps walking around the front hallway and the stairs."

Watching doors open, hearing voices, and seeing things out of the corner of your eye are things you can second-guess, but seeing an apparition in your home when you expect it to be empty can be alarming. Christine and Dennis have experienced such an apparition in their home in the past. She said, "We pulled in the driveway and happened to look upstairs toward the window, and I saw a man. I got scared because I thought someone broke into the house, so I sent my husband in to check it out."

When members of Laird's group had assembled at the house, he distributed several hand-held radios for individuals and teams who would be exploring different parts of the house. "Our signal for trouble is to hit the 'call' button on the radio three times and announce 'code red' -- that's everyone's cue to get out because something has gone wrong," Laird said. The "call" button makes the radio ring like a telephone for a brief period.

Laird went over some of the equipment he and his team would be using with me. The group had with them: tape recorders -- for recording electronic voice phenomenon (EVP); cameras -- for capturing ghosts and spirit energy on film (or digitally); and a laser-guided thermometer that can record temperatures at a specific point in the room from several feet away -- to look for cold spots and temperature spikes that may be influenced by ghosts or spirits. Laird also carried an ELF (Extra Low Frequency) meter and others had EMF (Electromagnetic Field) meters -- to detect a ghost's energy field. Laird did not bring his closed-circuit video and some other filming equipment on this particular investigation. All told, he believes he has spent around $5,000 on equipment.

Among the TRIPRG members present were two sensitives who were using ghost hunting equipment as well as their psychic abilities. On this particular night, we found ourselves moving quickly around different areas of the property as the members radioed in readings they were getting. Laird's ELF detector periodically rang its warning beep throughout our three hours at the Captain Greene house. Later in the evening, the radios began sounding the three-alarm warning, but no "code red" was announced. Repeatedly, Laird asked the group over the radio if they were hitting the call button, but each time, the group individually answered that they had not. "That's the emergency code. That bothers me. They're messing with our emergency code," Laird said. A moment later, he announced to the group that the new emergency code would be four rings. A few seconds later, the radios rang out four times.

"Frustrating -- they're playing chase," Laird said. "We know they're there, they know we're here. We're catching hits, but what we're looking for is something stationary -- where it stays long enough for us to say what's going on, what kind of emotion is behind the energy -- where we can get a fix."

On this particular ghost hunt, I noticed there wasn't a lot of fear in the owners of the house. They didn't mind if the ghost stayed, they just wanted a better understanding of the entities present. If ghost hunters can provide that understanding and ease some stress on a family, then they are truly providing a valuable service. Given that TRIPRG, and many other groups like them, don't even charge for their services, it's not a bad deal at all.


Richard Southall's How to Be a Ghost Hunter is on sale now. You can email him at Richard@majda.net or visit his ghost tours Web site at: www.hauntedparkersburg.com.

Andrew Laird and The Rhode Island Paranormal Research Group (TRIPRG) can be reached at their Web site: www.geocities.com/triprg/triprg.html.



http://www.ghostvillage.com/legends/2003/legends17_05032003.shtml 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:50:54 pm
Raven:

Member
Member # 3027

Member Rated:
   posted 04-21-2006 06:57 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Death, Life and the Question of Identity

By: Dr. Sam Vaknin

http://samvak.tripod.com/death.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What exactly is death?

A classical point of departure in defining death, seems to be life itself. Death is perceived either as a cessation of life - or as a "transit area", on the way to a continuation of life by other means. While the former approach presents a disjunction, the latter is a continuum, death being nothing but a corridor into another plane of existence (the hereafter).

But who does the dying when death occurs?

In other words, capturing the identity of the dying entity (that which "commits" death) is essential in defining death. But how can we establish the dying entity's unambiguous and unequivocal identity? Can this identity be determined by using quantitative parameters? Is it dependent, for instance, upon the number of discrete units which comprise the functioning whole? If so, at which level are useful distinctions and observations replaced by useless scholastic mind-warps?

Example: can human identity be defined by the number and organization of one's limbs, cells, or atoms? Cells in the human body are replaced (with the exception of the nervous system) every 5 years. Would this phenomenon imply that we gain a new identity each time this cycle is completed and most our cells are replaced?

Adopting this course of thinking leads to absurd results:

When humans die, the replacement rate of their cells is null. Does this zero replacement rate mean that their identity is better and longer preserved once dead? No one would say this. Death is tantamount to a loss of identity - not to its preservation. So, it would seem that, to ascertain one's identity, we should prefer a qualitative yardstick to a quantitative one.

The brain is a natural point of departure.

We can start by asking if one's identity will change if we were to substitute one's brain with another person's brain? "He is not the same" - we say of someone with a brain injury. If partial damage to the brain causes such a sea change in the determinants of individuality - it seems safe to assume that replacing one's entire brain will result in a total change of one's identity, akin to the emergence of another, distinct, self.

If the brain is the locus of identity, we should be able to assert that when (the cells of) all the other organs of the body are replaced (with the exception of the brain) - one's identity is still preserved.

The human hardware (body) and software (the wiring of the brain) have often been compared to a computer (see: "Metaphors of Mind"). But this analogy is misleading.

If we were to change all the software running on a computer - it would still remain the same (though more or less capable) computer. This is the equivalent of growing up in humans. However, if we were to change the computer's processor - it would no longer be the same computer.

This, partly, is the result of the separation of hardware (the microprocessor) from software (the programmes that it processes). There is no such separation in the human brain. The 1300 grams of grey matter in our heads are both hardware and software.

Still, the computer analogy seems to indicate that our identity resides not in our learning, knowledge, or memories. It is an epiphenomenon. It emerges when a certain level of hardware complexity is attained.

Even so, things are not that simple. If we were to eliminate someone's entire store of learning and memories (without affecting his physical brain) - would he still be the same person, would he still retain the same identity? Probably not.

In reality, erasing one's learning and memories without affecting his brain - is impossible. In humans, learning and memories are the brain. They affect the hardware that processes them in an irreversible manner. Still, in certain abnormal conditions, such radical erasure does occur (see "Shattered Identity").

This, naturally, cannot be said of a computer. There, the distinction between hardware and software is clear. Change a computer's hardware and you change its identity. Computers are software - invariant.

We are, therefore, able to confidently conclude that the brain is the sole determinant of identity, its seat and signifier. This is because our brain is both our processing hardware and our processed software. It is also a repository of processed data. A human brain detached from a body is still assumed to possess identity. And a monkey implanted with a human brain will host the identity of the former owner of the brain.

Many of the debates in the first decade of the new discipline of Artificial Intelligence (AI) revolved around these thought experiments. The Turing Test pits invisible intelligences against one another. The answers which they provide (by teleprinter, hidden behind partitions) determine their presumed identity (human or not). Identity is determined merely on the basis of the outputs (the responses). No direct observation of the hardware is deemed necessary by the test.

The brain's status as the privileged identity system is such that even when it remain incommunicado, we assume that it harbors a person. If for some medical, logistical, or technological problem, one's brain is unable to provide output, answers, and interactions - we are still likely to assume that it has the potential to do so. Thus, in the case of an inactive brain, the presumed identity is a derivative of its potential to interact, rather than of any actual interaction.

Paleo-anthropologists attempt to determine the identity of our forefathers by studying their skulls and, by inference, their brains and their mental potentials. True, they investigate other types of bones. Ultimately, they hope to be able to draw an accurate visual description of our ancestors. But perusing other bones leads merely to an image of their former owners - while the scrutiny of skulls presumably reveals our ancestors' very identities.

When we die, what dies, therefore, is the brain and only the brain.

Death is discernible as the cessation of the exercise of force over physical systems. It is the sudden absence of physical effects previously associated with the dead object, a singularity, a discontinuity. But it should not be confused with inertia.

Inertia is a balance of forces - while death is the absence of forces. Death is, therefore, also not an entropic climax. Entropy is an isotropic, homogeneous distribution of energy. Death is the absence of any and all energies. While, outwardly, the two might appear to be identical - they are actually the two poles of a dichotomy.

So, death, as opposed to inertia or entropy, is not something that modern physics is fully equipped to deal with. Physics, by definition, deals with forces and measurable effects. It has nothing to say about force-less, energy-devoid physical states (oxymora).

Still, if death is merely the terminal cessation of all impact on all physical systems (the absence of physical effects), how can we account for memories of the deceased?

Memory is a physical effect (electrochemical activity of the brain) upon a physical system (the Brain). It can be preserved and shipped across time and space in capsules called books or or artwork. These are containers of triggers of physical effects (in recipient brains). They seem to defy death. Though the physical system which produced the memory capsule surely ceases to exist - it continues to physically impact other physical systems long after its demise, long after it was supposed to stop doing so.

Memory makes death a transcendental affair. As long as we (or what we create) are remembered - we continue to have a physical effect on physical systems (i.e., on other people's brains). And as long as this is happening - we are not technically (or, at least, fully) dead. Our death, our destruction are fully accomplished only after our memory is wiped out completely, not even having the potential of being resurrected in future. Only then do we cease to exist (i.e., to have an effect on other physical systems).

Philosophically, there is no difference between being influenced by a real-life conversation with Kant - and being effected by his words preserved in a time-space capsule, such as a book. As far as the reader is concerned, Kant is very much alive, more so than contemporaneous people whom the reader never met.

It is conceivable that, in the future, we will be able to preserve a three-dimensional facsimile (a hologram) of a person, replete with his smells, temperature, and tactile effects. Why would the flesh and blood version be judged superior to such a likeness?

There is no self-evident hierarchy of representations based on their media. Organic 3-d representations ("bodies") are not inherently superior to inorganic 3-d representations. In other words, our futuristic hologram should not be deemed inferior to the classic, organic version as long as they both possess the same information content and are able to assimilate information, regenerate and create.

The only defensible hierarchy is of potentials and, thus, pertains to the future. Non-organic representations ("representations") of intelligent and conscious entities - of "organic originals" - are finite. The organic originals are infinite in their potential to create and to procreate, to change themselves and their environment, to act and be acted upon within ever more complex feedback loops.

The non-organic versions, the representations, are self contained and final. The organic originals and their representations may contain identical information. But the amount of information will increase in the organic version and decrease in the non-organic one (due to the second Law of Thermodynamics). This inevitable divergence is what renders the organic original privileged.

This property - of an increasing amount of information (=order) - characterizes not only organic originals but also anything that emanates from them. It characterizes works of art and science, or human off-spring, for instance. All these tend to increase information (indeed, they are, in themselves, information packets).

So, could we say that the propagation and the continuation of physical effects (through memory) is life after death? Life and memory share an important trait. They both have a negentropic (=order and information increasing) impact on their surroundings. Does that make them synonymous? Is death only a transitory phase from one form of Life (organic) to another (informational, spiritual)?

However tempting this equation is - in most likelihood, it is false.

The reason is that there are two sources of increase in information and what sets them apart is not trivial. As long as the organic original lives, all creation depends upon it. After it dies, the works that it has created and the memories that are associated with it, continue to affect physical systems.

However, their ability to foster new creative work, to generate new memories, in short: their capacity to increase order by spawning information is totally dependent upon other, living, organic originals. In the absence of other organic originals, they stagnate and go through an entropic decrease of information (i.e., increase of disorder).

This is the crux of the distinction between Life and Death:

LIFE is the potential, possessed by organic originals, to create (=to fight entropy by increasing information and order), using their own software. Such software can be coded in hardware - e.g., one's DNA - but then the creative act is limited to the replication of the organic original or parts thereof.

Upon the original's DEATH, the potential to create is passed through one's memory. Creative acts, works of art and science, or other forms of creativity are propagated only within the software (=the brains) of other, living, organic originals.

Both forms of creation (i.e., using one's software and using others' software) can co-exist during the original's life. Death, however, incapacitates the first type of creation (i.e., creation by an organic original, independent of others, and using its software). Upon death, the surrogate form of creation (i.e., creation, by other organic originals who use their software to process the works and memories of the dead) becomes the only one.

Memories created by one organic original resonate through the brains of others. This generates information and provokes the creative potential in recipient brains. Some of them do react by creating and, thus, play host to the parasitic, invading memory, infecting other members of the memory-space (=the meme space).

Death is, therefore, the assimilation of the products of an organic original in a Collective. It is, indeed, the continuation of Life but in a collective, rather than individually.

Alternatively, Death could be defined as a terminal change in the state of the hardware. Segments of the software colonize brains in the Collective. The software now acquires a different hardware - others' brains. This, of course, is reminiscent of certain viral mechanisms. The comparison may be superficial and misleading - or may lead to the imagery of the individual as a cell in the large organism of humanity. Memory has a role in this new form of social-political evolution which superseded Biological Evolution, as an instrument of adaptation.

Should we adopt this view, certain human reactions - e.g., opposition to change and religious and ideological wars - can perhaps be regarded as immunological reactions of the Collective to viral infection by the software (memories, works of art or science, ideas, in short: memes) of an individual.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright Notice

This material is copyrighted. Free, unrestricted use is allowed on a non commercial basis.
The author's name and a link to this Website must be incorporated in any reproduction of the material for any use and by any means.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to Home Page!

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Write to me: palma@unet.com.mk or narcissisticabuse-owner@yahoogroups.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 130 | From: College | Registered: Mar 2006   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:51:37 pm
 
Raven:

Member
Member # 3027

Member Rated:
   posted 04-21-2006 06:57 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Death, Life and the Question of Identity

By: Dr. Sam Vaknin

http://samvak.tripod.com/death.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What exactly is death?

A classical point of departure in defining death, seems to be life itself. Death is perceived either as a cessation of life - or as a "transit area", on the way to a continuation of life by other means. While the former approach presents a disjunction, the latter is a continuum, death being nothing but a corridor into another plane of existence (the hereafter).

But who does the dying when death occurs?

In other words, capturing the identity of the dying entity (that which "commits" death) is essential in defining death. But how can we establish the dying entity's unambiguous and unequivocal identity? Can this identity be determined by using quantitative parameters? Is it dependent, for instance, upon the number of discrete units which comprise the functioning whole? If so, at which level are useful distinctions and observations replaced by useless scholastic mind-warps?

Example: can human identity be defined by the number and organization of one's limbs, cells, or atoms? Cells in the human body are replaced (with the exception of the nervous system) every 5 years. Would this phenomenon imply that we gain a new identity each time this cycle is completed and most our cells are replaced?

Adopting this course of thinking leads to absurd results:

When humans die, the replacement rate of their cells is null. Does this zero replacement rate mean that their identity is better and longer preserved once dead? No one would say this. Death is tantamount to a loss of identity - not to its preservation. So, it would seem that, to ascertain one's identity, we should prefer a qualitative yardstick to a quantitative one.

The brain is a natural point of departure.

We can start by asking if one's identity will change if we were to substitute one's brain with another person's brain? "He is not the same" - we say of someone with a brain injury. If partial damage to the brain causes such a sea change in the determinants of individuality - it seems safe to assume that replacing one's entire brain will result in a total change of one's identity, akin to the emergence of another, distinct, self.

If the brain is the locus of identity, we should be able to assert that when (the cells of) all the other organs of the body are replaced (with the exception of the brain) - one's identity is still preserved.

The human hardware (body) and software (the wiring of the brain) have often been compared to a computer (see: "Metaphors of Mind"). But this analogy is misleading.

If we were to change all the software running on a computer - it would still remain the same (though more or less capable) computer. This is the equivalent of growing up in humans. However, if we were to change the computer's processor - it would no longer be the same computer.

This, partly, is the result of the separation of hardware (the microprocessor) from software (the programmes that it processes). There is no such separation in the human brain. The 1300 grams of grey matter in our heads are both hardware and software.

Still, the computer analogy seems to indicate that our identity resides not in our learning, knowledge, or memories. It is an epiphenomenon. It emerges when a certain level of hardware complexity is attained.

Even so, things are not that simple. If we were to eliminate someone's entire store of learning and memories (without affecting his physical brain) - would he still be the same person, would he still retain the same identity? Probably not.

In reality, erasing one's learning and memories without affecting his brain - is impossible. In humans, learning and memories are the brain. They affect the hardware that processes them in an irreversible manner. Still, in certain abnormal conditions, such radical erasure does occur (see "Shattered Identity").

This, naturally, cannot be said of a computer. There, the distinction between hardware and software is clear. Change a computer's hardware and you change its identity. Computers are software - invariant.

We are, therefore, able to confidently conclude that the brain is the sole determinant of identity, its seat and signifier. This is because our brain is both our processing hardware and our processed software. It is also a repository of processed data. A human brain detached from a body is still assumed to possess identity. And a monkey implanted with a human brain will host the identity of the former owner of the brain.

Many of the debates in the first decade of the new discipline of Artificial Intelligence (AI) revolved around these thought experiments. The Turing Test pits invisible intelligences against one another. The answers which they provide (by teleprinter, hidden behind partitions) determine their presumed identity (human or not). Identity is determined merely on the basis of the outputs (the responses). No direct observation of the hardware is deemed necessary by the test.

The brain's status as the privileged identity system is such that even when it remain incommunicado, we assume that it harbors a person. If for some medical, logistical, or technological problem, one's brain is unable to provide output, answers, and interactions - we are still likely to assume that it has the potential to do so. Thus, in the case of an inactive brain, the presumed identity is a derivative of its potential to interact, rather than of any actual interaction.

Paleo-anthropologists attempt to determine the identity of our forefathers by studying their skulls and, by inference, their brains and their mental potentials. True, they investigate other types of bones. Ultimately, they hope to be able to draw an accurate visual description of our ancestors. But perusing other bones leads merely to an image of their former owners - while the scrutiny of skulls presumably reveals our ancestors' very identities.

When we die, what dies, therefore, is the brain and only the brain.

Death is discernible as the cessation of the exercise of force over physical systems. It is the sudden absence of physical effects previously associated with the dead object, a singularity, a discontinuity. But it should not be confused with inertia.

Inertia is a balance of forces - while death is the absence of forces. Death is, therefore, also not an entropic climax. Entropy is an isotropic, homogeneous distribution of energy. Death is the absence of any and all energies. While, outwardly, the two might appear to be identical - they are actually the two poles of a dichotomy.

So, death, as opposed to inertia or entropy, is not something that modern physics is fully equipped to deal with. Physics, by definition, deals with forces and measurable effects. It has nothing to say about force-less, energy-devoid physical states (oxymora).

Still, if death is merely the terminal cessation of all impact on all physical systems (the absence of physical effects), how can we account for memories of the deceased?

Memory is a physical effect (electrochemical activity of the brain) upon a physical system (the Brain). It can be preserved and shipped across time and space in capsules called books or or artwork. These are containers of triggers of physical effects (in recipient brains). They seem to defy death. Though the physical system which produced the memory capsule surely ceases to exist - it continues to physically impact other physical systems long after its demise, long after it was supposed to stop doing so.

Memory makes death a transcendental affair. As long as we (or what we create) are remembered - we continue to have a physical effect on physical systems (i.e., on other people's brains). And as long as this is happening - we are not technically (or, at least, fully) dead. Our death, our destruction are fully accomplished only after our memory is wiped out completely, not even having the potential of being resurrected in future. Only then do we cease to exist (i.e., to have an effect on other physical systems).

Philosophically, there is no difference between being influenced by a real-life conversation with Kant - and being effected by his words preserved in a time-space capsule, such as a book. As far as the reader is concerned, Kant is very much alive, more so than contemporaneous people whom the reader never met.

It is conceivable that, in the future, we will be able to preserve a three-dimensional facsimile (a hologram) of a person, replete with his smells, temperature, and tactile effects. Why would the flesh and blood version be judged superior to such a likeness?

There is no self-evident hierarchy of representations based on their media. Organic 3-d representations ("bodies") are not inherently superior to inorganic 3-d representations. In other words, our futuristic hologram should not be deemed inferior to the classic, organic version as long as they both possess the same information content and are able to assimilate information, regenerate and create.

The only defensible hierarchy is of potentials and, thus, pertains to the future. Non-organic representations ("representations") of intelligent and conscious entities - of "organic originals" - are finite. The organic originals are infinite in their potential to create and to procreate, to change themselves and their environment, to act and be acted upon within ever more complex feedback loops.

The non-organic versions, the representations, are self contained and final. The organic originals and their representations may contain identical information. But the amount of information will increase in the organic version and decrease in the non-organic one (due to the second Law of Thermodynamics). This inevitable divergence is what renders the organic original privileged.

This property - of an increasing amount of information (=order) - characterizes not only organic originals but also anything that emanates from them. It characterizes works of art and science, or human off-spring, for instance. All these tend to increase information (indeed, they are, in themselves, information packets).

So, could we say that the propagation and the continuation of physical effects (through memory) is life after death? Life and memory share an important trait. They both have a negentropic (=order and information increasing) impact on their surroundings. Does that make them synonymous? Is death only a transitory phase from one form of Life (organic) to another (informational, spiritual)?

However tempting this equation is - in most likelihood, it is false.

The reason is that there are two sources of increase in information and what sets them apart is not trivial. As long as the organic original lives, all creation depends upon it. After it dies, the works that it has created and the memories that are associated with it, continue to affect physical systems.

However, their ability to foster new creative work, to generate new memories, in short: their capacity to increase order by spawning information is totally dependent upon other, living, organic originals. In the absence of other organic originals, they stagnate and go through an entropic decrease of information (i.e., increase of disorder).

This is the crux of the distinction between Life and Death:

LIFE is the potential, possessed by organic originals, to create (=to fight entropy by increasing information and order), using their own software. Such software can be coded in hardware - e.g., one's DNA - but then the creative act is limited to the replication of the organic original or parts thereof.

Upon the original's DEATH, the potential to create is passed through one's memory. Creative acts, works of art and science, or other forms of creativity are propagated only within the software (=the brains) of other, living, organic originals.

Both forms of creation (i.e., using one's software and using others' software) can co-exist during the original's life. Death, however, incapacitates the first type of creation (i.e., creation by an organic original, independent of others, and using its software). Upon death, the surrogate form of creation (i.e., creation, by other organic originals who use their software to process the works and memories of the dead) becomes the only one.

Memories created by one organic original resonate through the brains of others. This generates information and provokes the creative potential in recipient brains. Some of them do react by creating and, thus, play host to the parasitic, invading memory, infecting other members of the memory-space (=the meme space).

Death is, therefore, the assimilation of the products of an organic original in a Collective. It is, indeed, the continuation of Life but in a collective, rather than individually.

Alternatively, Death could be defined as a terminal change in the state of the hardware. Segments of the software colonize brains in the Collective. The software now acquires a different hardware - others' brains. This, of course, is reminiscent of certain viral mechanisms. The comparison may be superficial and misleading - or may lead to the imagery of the individual as a cell in the large organism of humanity. Memory has a role in this new form of social-political evolution which superseded Biological Evolution, as an instrument of adaptation.

Should we adopt this view, certain human reactions - e.g., opposition to change and religious and ideological wars - can perhaps be regarded as immunological reactions of the Collective to viral infection by the software (memories, works of art or science, ideas, in short: memes) of an individual.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright Notice

This material is copyrighted. Free, unrestricted use is allowed on a non commercial basis.
The author's name and a link to this Website must be incorporated in any reproduction of the material for any use and by any means.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to Home Page!

Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited

A Macedonian Encounter

Internet: A Medium or a Message?

Write to me: palma@unet.com.mk or narcissisticabuse-owner@yahoogroups.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 130 | From: College | Registered: Mar 2006   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:52:14 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

Member
Member # 2239

Member Rated:
   posted 04-22-2006 03:08 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science tackles the afterlife

by Henry Kisor

There are three kinds of people in the world: Those who believe in an afterlife, those who don't, and those who whistle past the graveyard.

Mary Roach sides with the nervous undecideds. She is the author of Stiff, a 2003 best seller that explored in exquisitely grisly (and hilarious) detail what happens to our bodies when we die. Her new book, Spook, chronicles her equally rollicking attempt to find out what transpires when we shuffle off our mortal coil -- what happens to our spirits when they leave their temporal homes. Or, rather, if we really have spirits, or souls, or ghosts, or whatever you want to call them.

Never mind Heaven, Paradise, or the nonsectarian Great Beyond. Roach is not out to debunk religion, for she has the good sense to separate faith from science. Those are two distinct and parallel realities that don't mix well (a fact that seems to escape rural school boards with unintelligent designs for their science curricula). What she wants to know is if there's actually something quantifiable within us -- call it a floating consciousness -- that leaves our bodies when we die and goes somewhere to say hello to all those consciousnesses that have gone before.

What is this consciousness? What is its shape? What color is it? How much does it weigh? How does it get in there? And afterwards, where does it go?


Or are these silly questions? Maybe the late Francis Crick, the discoverer of DNA, had the right idea: "You, your joys, your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules."

"But can you prove that, Dr. Crick?" Roach asks. It is apparent from the beginning that she wants to believe that humans have a soul, but she is also a skeptic. She wants proof, one way or the other.

First she travels to India to find out if the disembodied human spirit can set up housekeeping in someone else down the pike -- in other words, if it can be reincarnated. The reincarnation researchers she observes may be serious scientists, but their eagerness to believe seriously affects their techniques. There's lots to debunk, and debunk she does.

She enrolls in a school for mediums and learns their parlor tricks as well as weird practices (you'll never be able to watch James Van Praagh again without bursting into laughter). But she is willing to give some of them the benefit of the doubt: "I believe that they believe, honestly and with conviction, that they are getting information from paranormal sources. It's just a different interpretation of a set of facts." Most mediums prosper, she argues, because their clients are so uncritical, so credulous, so eager to believe that they will grasp at any straw of possibility and ignore a mountain of contrary evidence. Who cares if Uncle Joe never owned the Mercedes the medium said he drove if he actually wore the blue tie she says he mentioned? (Bet you've got one in your closet, too. Who doesn't?)

Roach visits weird historical researchers, such as the doughty Duncan Macdougall, a Victorian doctor who put moribund TB patients on a scale at the moment of their deaths to see if he could weigh their escaping souls.

Most fascinating of all was Harry Price, a famous magician and spirit researcher in the 1920s, who proved that the filmy "ectoplasm" a celebrated medium regurgitated was actually cheesecloth smuggled into the room in her ****.

She takes us to a University of Virginia operating room where doctors have installed a laptop near the ceiling, out of reach, to study out-of-body experiences during surgery. If someone's spirit takes a brief stroll, perhaps it will report what it saw on the laptop screen. So far, no dice.

In the end Roach answers her questions with a resounding "Who knows?" The existence of the human soul is not proven, she avers -- nor is it disproven.

That would have been a disappointing anticlimax if this book had been written by a sober and single-minded debunker of the paranormal, one whose mission is to annihilate hokum wherever it might be. But Mary Roach is warm, deliciously witty and has the happy knack of unearthing humor under the oddest tombstones. This makes her the ideal guide for a field trip into the otherworld.

When she joined spirit researchers in the high Sierras where members of the snowbound Donner Party turned to cannibalism to survive the awful winter of 1847-48, she took great delight that the International Ghost Hunters Society set up shop at the Donner Camp Picnic Ground.

All sorts of weird facts cause Roach to bubble over in glee. Many of those alleged voices from the beyond claim that in the afterlife, fat people are thin. One dear departed is even supposed to have confided to a medium that "I can wear pleated pants now."

But discarnate beings never seem to say anything truly interesting. They never discuss what we're curious about, Roach complains, such as "Hey, where are you now? What do you do all day? What's it feel like being dead? Can you see me? Even when I'm on the toilet? Would you cut that out?"

In the afterlife there seems to be no sex, if we are to believe those dispatches. If that's so, what's the purpose of all those voluptuous houris in the radical Muslim Paradise? Window dressing? All those suicide bombers who were promised an eternity of whoopee for their martyrdom must have been sold a bill of goods.

If you read this book, you'll laugh past the cemetery every Halloween for the rest of your life.


Henry Kisor is the Chicago Sun-Times' book editor.

http://www.ufodigest.com/spook.html
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:52:51 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 04-22-2006 03:10 PM                       
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Allison Dubois: I can see dead people

The notion of people with psychic powers has always been of interest to many of us, so when we learned that an author, a woman who has had a US television series based on her life, was visiting Australia, the ABC jumped at the opportunity to speak with her.

Allison Dubois is a native of Phoenix, Arizona, where she was born in 1972.

Her early life was in many respects unspectacular. Her parents divorced when she was a baby, but Allison grew up ‘knowing both of them loved her’.

After what she describes as a pretty difficult and lonely adolescence, her mother divorced her stepfather when she was twelve, Allison was living out of the family home before she was sixteen.

Despite some early setbacks, Allison’s determination to succeed saw her graduate from Arizona State University with BA in Political Science and Minors in History.

What sets Allison Dubois apart from countless other individuals is that she discovered when she was very young that she had psychic abilities, which eventually led her to become a professional medium, and a ‘profiler’, helping police and law authorities solve baffling cases.

Her ‘gift’ includes the ability to predict future events, to see into people’s minds, to detect health problems in the living and to communicate with the dead.

In her own words “Yes, I do see dead people everywhere...”

Allison was asked about making those distinctions in people with psychic ability – clairvoyance and clairaudience, or psychokinesis, asking what the sensations she received were like, and how her abilities manifested themselves.

She replied saying that sometimes she sees people ‘as if they were right there beside her’, while at other times she heard voices, and on occasions smelt a perfume, or recognized a characteristic scent that came from ‘the other side’.

Order 'Don't Kiss Them Good-bye' through Amazon.com

Allison was asked how she knew there was life after death and how she could be so positive about ‘the other side’, and her frank reply was clear and to the point.

She has been ‘dealing with disembodied souls and human energies’ from beyond the grave since she could remember, and simply knows her experiences to be true.

Allison has also been extensively tested by a number of different investigation teams in scientific conditions and in controlled laboratory examinations, all of which proved her psychic abilities with standout results.

She claims to have had her first strange experience, which was meeting her grandfather after he had died, at only six years of age.

An event when she was eleven would shape her future path and the work that she did.

One day when she was out riding her bike in her home neighbourhood in Pheonix, two young men attempted to entice her into the car they were driving.

Allison was alone on the street, realised she didn’t know the men, and was terrified and frozen with shock.

She says a voice suddenly startled her out of her immobile state by ordering her to get away as fast as possible, telling her to ride her bike home as quickly as she could.

Soon after, a number of attacks against children and unsolved child abductions in her home state made her realize that she had been saved by one of her ‘guardians’ or ‘guides’, and that she had had a lucky escape from a situation that could have seen her hurt, molested, or perhaps ever murdered.

Allison says this realization changed the course of her life, although she didn’t fully understand it at the time, but the seed had been sown to allow her to channel her abilities to help prevent crime, or to solve crimes ‘in which children had been made targets by depraved and evil people’.

In her book, which is a personal perspective of many aspects of her life, Allison reveals her views on specific cases that brought her a level of credibility within policing and crime detection agencies, when she was invited to work with Texas Rangers in solving disappearances and cases of abductions.

She found, when looking at photographic evidence, that she could glean information from the perpetrator’s viewpoint, picturing places they had been and locating specific sites where crimes had been committed.

Allison points out in her book that she has never accepted any payment for her services in any of the cases she has helped solve, and always works with the prosecution to ensure that violent and sociopathic individuals are put away.

While most police departments will not engage with a psychic for assistance, Allison says many agencies do use people like her with similar gifts, but are careful not to reveal this, as the defence attorneys would willingly exploit public skepticism to discredit ‘witnesses’ like her who ‘see things’ but cannot substantiate their visions with hard evidence that holds up in court.

She merely attempts to reveal things unknown to police, in the form of names, locations, licence plate numbers, or smells or other sensory stimuli that are associated with crimes and criminal behaviour.

Allison says that being a medium and a crime profiler is not a specific science, it is more a matter of receiving pictures, sounds, images and often disjointed information that comes from other minds, whether dead or alive.

She also insists on only taking on a limited number of such cases per year, as the effort required takes its toll, physically and emotionally, from her.

Another interesting facet of Allison’s book “Don’t Kiss Them Goodbye” is the theme of reassurance that we are never alone, and we are under the watchful eyes of past relatives who are deceased and who have been significant in our lives, and a number of others who are often referred to as ‘angels’ or, more simply, our ‘guides’.

http://www.ufodigest.com/allisondubois.html
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:53:27 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 04-22-2006 03:11 PM                       
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Ghosts cast darker shade on store

by Jayne Elliott

Staff and customers at a lighting shop in North East Lincolnshire have been turning a whiter shade of pale after a spate of ghostly goings-on.

Lights drop from the ceiling, shades are thrown, doors open and slam, and footsteps echo throughout Beagles Lighting on Cleethorpe Road, Grimsby.

Paranormal investigators, who were called in by shop owner Fiona Glover, have declared the shop haunted.

Investigators from TV's "Most Haunted" will now visit the site on Saturday.

Ms Glover first noticed something was different about the shop when she moved in seven months ago.

Bulbs were repeatedly unscrewed from lamps, the front door would open to trigger off an alarm, and boxes in the store room were thrown about at night.

She finally decided to get help after a customer watched a collection of candle shades be thrown across the shop floor by some invisible force.

Investigators from the Lincolnshire and East Riding Paranormal Investigation Team have carried out extensive research into the activities.

Mediums and a shamanic pathwalker have also visited the shop to help determine who and what is haunting the shop.

Ms Glover said: "We have been told there are two men and an elderly woman who need help to go to the light.

"One of the men is aggressive and comes into the shop after visiting The Albion pub across the road. He then goes upstairs. It's thought he killed his wife."

Mediums believe one of the men could be called John and the other Tom. They also believe the surname Harrison is linked to the restless spirits.

Ms Glover and employee Sandra Keogh have been carrying out their own research into the shop.

In 1870 it was Gooseman the winemakers and a horse corn dealer. In 1910 it was the Labour exchange and in 1935 a radio factory.

http://www.ufodigest.com/darkerside.html
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:54:10 pm
Trent

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   posted 09-10-2006 01:10 AM                       
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Communicating with the dead through electronics
Geplaatst op 04.02.2006


No one can deny that computers and electronics have revolutionized life on this planet. There are electronic controls and computer chips in everything from the small appliances that toast our bread to the cars we drive, and make possible myriad forms of new entertainment, from DVDs to video games and iPods. We're just at the beginning of this remarkable revolution.


And now many serious and casual researchers are claiming that some of this gadgetry can be useful in a quite unexpected way: to contact the dead... or at least allow the dead to contact us.

Obviously, these claims are highly controversial. They make many assumptions: that there is life after death, that the dead are interested in contacting us, and that they have the means by which to do so. Assuming all that, many people experimenting with electronic voice phenomena (EVP) and instrumental transcommunication (ITC) say they have received messages from "the other side" through tape recorders, VCRs, televisions, telephones and even computers. It seems we may no longer exclusively need Ouija boards, psychics and mediums to contact dear deceased Uncle Harold... just turn on the TV instead. Yes, even spiritulism has entered the electronic age.

These phenomena have manifest themselves since the appearance of the instruments themselves. EVP (electronic voice phenomena), for example, has been reported for well over 30 years: unexplained voices heard faintly on magnetic recording tape. It's said that even Thomas Edison experimented with devices for spirit communication. Investigators around the world are trying to get to the bottom of EVP and ITC, endeavoring to explain, in one way or another, how these voices are encoded on audio tape, how unexplained images appear on video tape and TV screens, where phantom phone calls come from and how computers can relay messages from "the beyond."

Here are some interesting cases of EVP and ITC, about which you can read more at the links provided:

Audio tape

Two of the pioneers of EVP were Konstantin Raudive, a Swedish psychology professor, and Fredrich Juergenson, a Swedish filmmaker. In the late 1950s, Raudive began to hear words recorded on blank audio tape and eventually made more than 100,000 recordings. (A CD of some of this recordings is even available.) Around the same time, Juergenson first captured unexplained voices while taping bird songs outdoors. He continued his research for over 25 years.

Is ITC phenomenon genuine? relates how Belling and Lee, a British laboratory, conducted some experiments in EVP, suspecting that the "spirit voices" were actually caused by ham radio broadcasts bouncing off the ionosphere. The tests were conducted by one of the leading sound engineers in Britain, and when phantom voices were recorded on factory-fresh tape, he was baffled. "I cannot explain what happened in normal physical terms," he is quoted as saying.

Another interesting case is that of two Italian Catholic priests who in 1952 were trying to record a Gregorian chant, but a wire in their equipment kept breaking. Out of desperation, one of the priests asked his dead father for help. Then, to his amazement, his father's voice was heard on the tape saying, "Of course I shall help you. I'm always with you." The priests brought the matter to the attention of Pope Pius XII, who reportedly accepted the genuineness of the phenomenon.

Today, many individuals and groups are experimenting with and gathering EVPs. Dave Oester and Sharon Gill of the International Ghost Hunters Society travel the US collecting EVPs from various haunted sites, and they post many of their recordings on their site.

Radio

In 1990, two research teams (one in the U.S. and one in Germany) claimed to have independently developed devices that allowed them to talk to the dead. Using a modified form of ham radio that receives 13 different frequencies at once, the researchers claimed to have held conversations with several people who have passed on to another plane of existence. Dr. Ernst Senkowski, in Germany, said that he contacted a Hamburg dockmaster who died in 1965. "We verified this information," Senkowski said. "He told us he was well and happy."

In the U.S., George Meek, director of the MetaScience Foundation in Franklin, N.C., said that more than 25 times he has talked to Dr. George J. Mueller, an electrical engineer who died in 1967 of a heart attack. "Dr. Mueller told us where to find his birth and death certificate records" and other details, Meek said. Supposedly, it all checked out.

TV/VCR

In 1985, according to Instrumental Contact with the Dead?, German psychic Klaus Schreiber started receiving pictures of deceased family members on his television. Sometimes just voices would come across, telling Schreiber how to tune his TV for better reception. When Schreiber died soon after, his own image began to show up on the TV screens of some European ITC researchers.

Some researchers have claimed success in capturing ghost images with an instrumental transcommunication (ITC) set-up. With this technique, a video camcorder, connected to a television, is pointed at the television screen. In other words, the camera is recording the image it is simultaneously sending to the TV, creating an endless feedback loop. The frames of the video are then examined one by one, and sometimes ver distinct human faces can be seen.

Telephone

In January 1996, ITC researcher Adolf Homes received a series of paranormal phone calls, according to Is ITC phenomenon genuine? Reportedly, a female voice said, "This is mother. Mother is going to contact you several times on your phone. As you know, my thoughts are sent in different speech patterns. The vibrational ties with your equipment make our contacts possible..."

Of course, there are also many documented cases of phantom phone calls, or phone calls from the dead. You can read several chilling examples in my article on the subject.

Computer

The seeming ability of entities to make contact through a computer were first noticed in Germany in 1980, according to Electronic Links to Other Dimensions & Entities. A researcher received a spontaneous message that appeared first as a series of letters, then words and finally phrases that referred clearly to a deceased friend of the investigator. Four years later, an English professor claimed to have exchanged messages (supposedly this was not e-mail) for over 15 months with a group of advanced entities living in the year 2019 as well as a man from 1546.

In 1984-85, says Instrumental Contact with the Dead?, Kenneth Webster of England said he received 250 communications via several different computers from a person who lived in the 16th century.

Can we believe such stories? Some are so far out that they should be taken with a megadose of salt. And the field of spiritualism and contact with the dead has always been so rampant with charlatans and fraud that there's no reason to think that that tradition is not being continued with the assistance of electronic devices. But it's always best to keep a cautiously open mind and welcome legitimate research into this dark, nebulous region of the paranormal.

http://www.niburu.nl/index.php?showarticle.php?articleID=12011

[ 09-10-2006, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Trent ]

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Sandra on January 20, 2008, 10:54:35 pm
Trent

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   posted 12-02-2006 11:14 PM                       
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Communicating with the Dead?

Halloween seems like an appropriate time for this article. Ted Danson, the former star of the Cheers television show, was once a skeptic. Now Danson says that he is convinced that everyone will someday have a hotline to dead loved ones in his or her lifetime. Danson urges cynics not to be afraid of crossing over.


Danson and his wife, Mary Steenburgen, were amazed when they sat down with best-selling psychic author, James van Praagh, in a bid to contact the actor's late father. Danson played the role of Van Praagh in a TV movie, "Living With The Dead." Information about that movie can be found at http://www.cbs.com/specials/living_dead.

Danson says, "To be able to talk to the dead is a wonderful gift. I had the most amazing experience. For some reason in this culture it's like this big 'woo woo thing.' I can't think of anyone who hasn't lost a loved one and said, 'I had a dream last night - something bizarre happened that I can't explain.'"

"The idea of communicating to people that have passed over is imbedded into most cultures except ours - Native American tribes depend on their ancestors and communication with them.

"I'm sure it won't be long before we're all conversing with people who have passed. It's a growing trend."

Assuming that Danson's prediction comes true, I know a lot of genealogists who will be standing in line to use that phone booth!

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2005/10/communicating_w.html

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:56:53 pm
 
Volitzer

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Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 12-02-2006 11:49 PM                       
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptlZoAyZB8

Weird Al's "Midnight Star" if the link don't work.



[ 12-10-2006, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6564 | From: -in transition- | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:57:15 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 12-03-2006 12:34 AM                       
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOQunnpeVBY

L7 video

Come on...come on...come on.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbY7P12K88

L7 on Letterman.


L7 "Pretend that we're dead."  :)

[ 12-10-2006, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6564 | From: -in transition- | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:57:38 pm
 
Trent

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   posted 12-10-2006 06:59 AM                       
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Volitzer, the second two vids didn't come up and the first only brought YouTube's homepage. Was there any ghost stuff on there?

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:58:20 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 12-11-2006 12:30 AM                       
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If the links don't work try www.youtube.com then enter the artist and song.

Don't know why the links don't work anymore????????????????

[ 12-11-2006, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6564 | From: -in transition- | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:59:03 pm
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 12-11-2006 01:11 AM                       
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Nice work, everyone.

Here are some really cool ghost links:

New England Ghost Project: Events and News:

Saturday July 29th: Join the NEGP in Biddeford Pool Maine for a Haunted dinner and presentation on their overnight stay at the Haunted Wood Island Lighthouse. For tickets or more information: http://www.woodislandlighthouse.org/New%20Pages/GhostEvent.htm Thank you to those who made this event a success!

September 22nd - 24th 2006: "CONTACT" The Berkshire Paranormal Ghost Conference and Seminar returns to the haunted Houghton Mansion in North Adams Massachusetts. www.neghostproject.nstemp.com/catalog.html Thank you to those who made this event a success!

Saturday October 7th: "Light Spirits: The Ghosts of Portsmouth harbor Lighthouse" This event is limited to 25 people which includes the first ever night tour of the lighthouse and grounds. For reservations: email FPHL@lighthouse.cc or call (603) 431-9155 Thank you to those who made this event a success!

Friday October 13th: "A Haunted Evening" at the Village Inn in Dracut. Evidence collected at our investigation there will be revealed for the first time that night. Call (978) 455-6678 for tickets. http://www.dracutrepublican.com/contact_1.html Thank you to those who made this event a success!

Saturday October 21th (8 PM - Midnight): "Spectral Evidience" Join the New England Ghost Project at "The Festival of The Dead" hosted by the Salem Witches in Salem Massachusetts. For details or to buy tickets go to: http://www.festivalofthedead.com/spectralevidence.html Thank you to those who made this event a success!

Monday October 23rd: Psychic Night! Call (603) 870-9270 for information or reservations. Go to the Windham Restaurant page of this site for details. Thank you to those who made this event a success!

Monday October 30th (7 PM): Fright Night! : Call (603) 870-9270 for information or reservations. Go to the Windham Restaurant page of this site for details.

Monday October 30th (6:30 PM): Watch for Maureen, Karen, Ron, and the rest of the NEGP crew on the television show "American Builder" on CN8 - Comcast channel 3 - How did Jimmy from American Builder survive a night with the NEGP at New London Ledge Lighthouse? Tune in and find out!

Tuesday October 31st (11 AM): Chat "Live" with Ron on www.boston.com . Stay tune for more details

Tuesday October 31st (6:30 AM & 6:30 PM): The NEGP on "American Builder". Rebroadcast of Monday's show.

Wednesday November 1st (6:30 AM): The NEGP on "American Builder". Rebroadcast of Monday's show.

Saturday November 11th (7:15 - 9:30) and Sunday November 12th (7:15 - ?): "Ghost Hunt" returns to the Circles of Wisdom. To sign up or for more information go to: http://www.circlesofwisdom.com/event.cfm?evnt_id=3164 or call Cathy at the Circles of Wisdom at (978) 474-8010

Saturday October 20th 2007 (8PM - Midnight): Spectral Evidence at the Hawthorne Hotel in Salem Massachusetts sponsored by the Witches of Salem.

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ATTENTION ALL GHOST HUNTERS AND PARANORMAL INVESTIGATORS! PLEASE CLICK THIS LINK http://www.petitiononline.com/icsicomm/petition.html TO PRESERVE GETTYSBURG FOR PARANORMAL INVESTIGATION
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Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 10:59:34 pm
 
Sandra Taylor

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   posted 12-11-2006 01:13 AM                       
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The Expedition to Haunted Wood Island Light


On a Friday evening the NEGP was taken by boat to a deserted island and stayed overnight in a haunted lighthouse. Read about this adventure in an article from the Boston Globe by Doug Belken

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/10/23/is_anyone_there_1129923177/?page=full
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Posts: 172 | Registered: May 2005
 


Title: Re: Communicating with the Dead (Original)
Post by: Trent on January 20, 2008, 11:02:47 pm
So ends the original Commincating with the Dead!   :o  8)