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the Ancient World => the Library of Alexandria, Ancient Historians & Philosophers => Topic started by: Chronos on December 27, 2007, 01:22:45 am



Title: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Chronos on December 27, 2007, 01:22:45 am
Author  Topic: Library of Alexandria 
Chronos

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I thought we might devote a thread specifically to the Library of Alexandria, which, in it's time, was reputed to have gathered all the accumulated knowledge of the ancient world. Much has been made of the fact that Plato's accounts are the only existing writings of Atlantis. The library had more than 500,000 ancient scrolls in it's time, before it was burned to the ground, under still mysterious circumstances (most blame Caesar). If there were other accounts of Atlantis, they might well have been there, like a great deal of the other wisdom of the ancients that is now lost to us. Alexandria is the starting point, but feel free to discuss any knowledge the ancients may or may not have had that we don't give them credit for now.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Chronos on December 27, 2007, 01:23:17 am
Chronos

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Here's an account of the library by Carl Sagan to start with:
The Library at Alexandria


From Cosmos, Carl Sagan:

Only once before in our history was there the promise of a brilliant scientific civilization. Beneficiary of the Ionian Awakening, it had its citadel at the Library of Alexandria, where 2,000 years ago the best minds of antiquity established the foundations for the systematic study of mathematics, physics, biology, astronomy, literature, geography and medicine. We build on those foundations still. The Library was constructed and supported by the Ptolemys, the Greek kings who inherited the Egyptian portion of the empire of Alexander the Great. From the time of its creation in the third century B.C. until its destruction seven centuries later, it was the brain and heart of the ancient world.

Alexandria was the publishing capital of the planet. Of course, there were no printing presses then. Books were expensive; every one of them was copied by hand. The Library was the repository of the most accurate copies in the world. The art of critical editing was invented there. The Old Testament comes down to us mainly from the Greek translations made in the Alexandrian Library. The Ptolemys devoted much of their enormous wealth to the acquisition of every Greek book, as well as works from Africa, Persia, India, Israel and other parts of the world. Ptolemy III Euergetes wished to borrow from Athens the original manuscripts or official state copies of the great ancient tragedies of Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides. To the Athenians, these were a kind of cultural patrimony -- something like the original handwritten copies and first folios of Shakespeare might be in England. They were reluctant to let the manuscripts out of their hands even for a moment Only after Ptolemy guaranteed their return with an enormous cash deposit did they agree to lend the plays. But Ptolemy valued those scrolls more than gold or silver. He forfeited the deposit gladly and enshrined, as well he might, the originals in the Library. The outraged Athenians had to content themselves with the copies that Ptolemy, only a little shamefacedly, presented to them. Rarely has a state so avidly supported the pursuit of knowledge.

The Ptolemys did not merely collect established knowledge; they encouraged and financed scientific research and so generated new knowledge. The results were amazing: Eratosthenes accurately calculated the size of the Earth, mapped it, and argued that India could be reached by sailing westward from Spain. Hipparchus anticipated that stars come into being, slowly move during the course of centuries, and eventually perish; it was he who first catalogued the positions and magnitudes of the stars to detect such changes. Euclid produced a textbook on geometry from which humans learned for twenty-three centuries, a work that was to help awaken the scientific interest of Kepler, Newton and Einstein. Galen wrote basic works on healing and anatomy which dominated medicine until the Renaissance. There were, as we have noted, many others.

Alexandria was the greatest city the Western world had ever seen. People of all nations came there to live, to trade, to learn. On any given day, its harbors were thronged with merchants, scholars and tourists. This was a city where Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Syrians, Hebrews, Persians, Nubians, Phoenicians, Italians, Gauls and Iberians exchanged merchandise and ideas. It is probably here that the word cosmopolitan realized its true meaning -- citizen, not just of a nation, but of the Cosmos. To be a citizen of the Cosmos...

Here clearly were the seeds of the modern world. What prevented them from taking root and flourishing? Why instead did the West slumber through a thousand years of darkness until Columbus and Copernicus and their contemporaries rediscovered the work done in Alexandria? I cannot give you a simple answer. But I do know this: there is no record, in the entire history of the Library, that any of its illustrious scientists and scholars ever seriously challenged the political, economic and religious assumptions of their society. The permanence of the stars was questioned; the justice of slavery was not. Science and learning in general were the preserve of a privileged few. The vast population of the city had not the vaguest notion of the great discoveries taking place within the Library. New findings were not explained or popularized. The research benefited them little. Discoveries in mechanics and steam technology were applied mainly to the perfection of weapons, the encouragement of superstition, the amusement of kings. The scientists never grasped the potential of machines to free people. The great intellectual achievements of antiquity had few immediate practical applications. Science never captured the imagination of the multitude. There was no counterbalance to stagnation, to pessimism, to the most abject surrenders to mysticism. When, at long last, the mob came to burn the Library down, there was nobody to stop them.

The last scientist who worked in the Library was a mathematician, astronomer, physicist and the head of the Neoplatonic school of philosophy -- an extraordinary range of accomplishments for any individual in any age. Her name was Hypatia. She was born in Alexandria in 370. At a time when women had few options and were treated as property, Hypatia moved freely and unselfconsciously through traditional male domains. By all accounts she was a great beauty. She had many suitors but rejected all offers of marriage. The Alexandria of Hypatia's time -- by then long under Roman rule -- was a city under grave strain. Slavery had sapped classical civilization of its vitality. The growing Christian Church was consolidating its power and attempting to eradicate pagan influence and culture. Hypatia stood at the epicenter of these mighty social forces. Cyril, the Archbishop of Alexandria, despised her because of her close friendship with the Roman governor, and because she was a symbol of learning and science, which were largely identified by the early Church with paganism In great personal danger, she continued to teach and publish, until, in the year 415, on her way to work she was set upon by a fanatical mob of Cyril's parishioners. They dragged her from her chariot, tore off her clothes, and armed with abalone shells, flayed her flesh from her bones. Her remains were burned, her works obliterated, her name forgotten. Cyril was made a saint.

The glory of the Alexandrian Library is a dim memory. Its last remnants were destroyed soon after Hypatia's death. It was as if the entire civilization had undergone some self-inflicted brain surgery, and most of its memories, discoveries, ideas and passions were extinguished irrevocably. The loss was incalculable. In some cases, we know only the tantalizing titles of the works that were destroyed. In most cases, we know neither the titles nor the authors. We do know that of the 123 plays of Sophocles in the Library, only seven survived. One of those seven is Oedipus Rex. Similar numbers apply to the works of Aeschylus and Euripides. It is a little as if the only surviving works of a man named William Shakespeare were Coriolanus and A Winter's Tale, but we had heard that he had written certain other plays, unknown to us but apparently prized in his time, works entitled Hamlet, Macbeth, Julius Caesar, King Lear, Romeo and Juliet.

What happened to the Library's half-million scrolls? Accounts of the details vary; this is taken from The Vanished Library by Luciano Canfora:

The books were distributed to the public baths of Alexandria, where they were used to feed the stoves which kept the baths so comfortably warm. Ibn al-Kifti writes that 'the number of baths was well known, but I have forgotten it' (we have Euty****s's word that there were in fact four thousand). 'They say,' continues Ibn al-Kifti, 'that it took six months to burn all that mass of material.'

Aristotle's books were the only ones spared.

http://departments.weber.edu/physics/carroll/honors/cosmos.htm


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:03:23 pm
The Burning of the Library of Alexandria
by Preston Chesser
The loss of the ancient world's single greatest archive of knowledge, the Library of Alexandria, has been lamented for ages. But how and why it was lost is still a mystery. The mystery exists not for lack of suspects but from an excess of them.

Alexandria was founded in Egypt by Alexandria the Great. His successor as Pharaoh, Ptolomy II Soter, founded the Museum or Royal Library of Alexandria in 283 BC. The Museum was a shrine of the Muses modeled after the Lyceum of Aristotle in Athens. The Museum was a place of study which included lecture areas, gardens, a zoo, and shrines for each of the nine muses as well as the Library itself. It has been estimated that at one time the Library of Alexandria held over half a million documents from Assyria, Greece, Persia, Egypt, India and many other nations. Over 100 scholars lived at the Museum full time to perform research, write, lecture or translate and copy documents. The library was so large it actually had another branch or "daughter" library at the Temple of Serapis.

The first person blamed for the destruction of the Library is none other than Julius Caesar himself. In 48 BC, Caesar was pursuing Pompey into Egypt when he was suddenly cut off by an Egyptian fleet at Alexandria. Greatly outnumbered and in enemy territory, Caesar ordered the ships in the harbor to be set on fire. The fire spread and destroyed the Egyptian fleet. Unfortunately, it also burned down part of the city - the area where the great Library stood. Caesar wrote of starting the fire in the harbor but neglected to mention the burning of the Library. Such an omission proves little since he was not in the habit of including unflattering facts while writing his own history. But Caesar was not without public detractors. If he was solely to blame for the disappearance of the Library it is very likely significant documentation on the affair would exist today.

The second story of the Library's destruction is more popular, thanks primarily to Edward Gibbon's "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". But the story is also a tad more complex. Theophilus was Patriarch of Alexandria from 385 to 412 AD. During his reign the Temple of Serapis was converted into a Christian Church (probably around 391 AD) and it is likely that many documents were destroyed then. The Temple of Serapis was estimated to hold about ten percent of the overall Library of Alexandria's holdings. After his death, his nephew Cyril became Patriarch. Shortly after that, riots broke out when Hierax, a Christian monk, was publicly killed by order of Orestes the city Prefect. Orestes was said to be under the influence of Hypatia, a female philosopher and daughter of the "last member of the Library of Alexandria". Although it should be noted that some count Hypatia herself as the last Head Librarian.

Alexandria had long been known for it's violent and volatile politics. Christians, Jews and Pagans all lived together in the city. One ancient writer claimed that there was no people who loved a fight more than those of Alexandria. Immediately after the death of Hierax a group of Jews who had helped instigate his killing lured more Christians into the street at night by proclaiming that the Church was on fire. When the Christians rushed out the largely Jewish mob slew many of them. After this there was mass havoc as Christians retaliated against both the Jews and the Pagans - one of which was Hypatia. The story varies slightly depending upon who tells it but she was taken by the Christians, dragged through the streets and murdered.

Some regard the death of Hypatia as the final destruction of the Library. Others blame Theophilus for destroying the last of the scrolls when he razed the Temple of Serapis prior to making it a Christian church. Still others have confused both incidents and blamed Theophilus for simultaneously murdering Hypatia and destroying the Library though it is obvious Theophilus died sometime prior to Hypatia.

The final individual to get blamed for the destruction is the Moslem Caliph Omar. In 640 AD the Moslems took the city of Alexandria. Upon learning of "a great library containing all the knowledge of the world" the conquering general supposedly asked Caliph Omar for instructions. The Caliph has been quoted as saying of the Library's holdings, "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." So, allegedly, all the texts were destroyed by using them as tinder for the bathhouses of the city. Even then it was said to have taken six months to burn all the documents. But these details, from the Caliph's quote to the incredulous six months it supposedly took to burn all the books, weren't written down until 300 years after the fact. These facts condemning Omar were written by Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus, a Christian who spent a great deal of time writing about Moslem atrocities without much historical documentation.

So who did burn the Library of Alexandria? Unfortunately most of the writers from Plutarch (who apparently blamed Caesar) to Edward Gibbons (a staunch atheist or deist who liked very much to blame Christians and blamed Theophilus) to Bishop Gregory (who was particularly anti-Moslem, blamed Omar) all had an axe to grind and consequently must be seen as biased. Probably everyone mentioned above had some hand in destroying some part of the Library's holdings. The collection may have ebbed and flowed as some documents were destroyed and others were added. For instance, Mark Antony was supposed to have given Cleopatra over 200,000 scrolls for the Library long after Julius Caesar is accused of burning it.

It is also quite likely that even if the Museum was destroyed with the main library the outlying "daughter" library at the Temple of Serapis continued on. Many writers seem to equate the Library of Alexandria with the Library of Serapis although technically they were in two different parts of the city.

The real tragedy of course is not the uncertainty of knowing who to blame for the Library's destruction but that so much of ancient history, literature and learning was lost forever.

Selected sources:
"The Vanished Library" by Luciano Canfora
"Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" by Edward Gibbons
http://www.ehistory.com/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=9


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:04:51 pm
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I suppose the ruling parties of our time will try to do likewise when the writing's turn up on the memorial stone's just like Plato said they would. evolutionist's would be out of a job,the archaeological society would refute it. I still wonder what the finder will find, nobel prize or a rope? I don't think too much has changed do you? ha! only the name's to protect themselves, innocent be hanged. I've enjoyed your writings in both threads Chronos,its been so long since I'd read alot of it, Thanx. I hope to contribute more in the future but all things in order eh what? Have you ever studied Ogam? not too many do, still,its challenging, oboy its hard.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:05:08 pm
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Chronos I apologize, I went and got off on the great library part. Too bad Alexandria didnt copy on rocks.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:05:24 pm
 
dhill757

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   posted 07-26-2004 05:51 PM                       
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Chronos, I'm of the opinion the library may have had some ancient history, dealing with Atlantis, that we don't know about, too. Everyone says that Plato is the only source for the Atlantis story. What if there were others he, or Solon, based the account on, but they have been lost?
One of the strangest things about the library of Alexandria is that no one even seems to know exactly where it was in Alexandria.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:05:42 pm
Tom Hebert
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  posted 07-26-2004 06:16 PM                       
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Dhill,
I agree with you that the library at Alexandria is much older than our current concept of history. It didn't just pop up out of nowhere.

Tom



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:06:00 pm
rockessence

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   posted 07-26-2004 07:35 PM                       
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Chronos,
I remember hearing years ago that the other "Great Library" (University) of the time was in Scotland and that many great families of the Mediterranean area sent their sons all the way up there to be educated.

Anybody else hear anything on this?


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:06:22 pm
Magic Engineer
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I have a friend who is going to study to be an archeologist, and for as long as I have known him, he has been 100% obsessed with little else but history (to the point that his word on a historical matter is often taken at face value by some of my other friends). But, I was talking with him one day about the Library, and according to him, some archeologists theorize that the Library of Alexandria wasn't in Alexandria at all! It was another of Alexander the great's deception ploys to hide his riches. (mind you, as I write this, I can plainly see many contradictions, and I personally want more proof than my friends word on the matter, but hey, at least its discussion fodder  ) That being said, it's possible we might one day find the TRUE library, and find even greater riches (material/knowledge,etc.) within.
Lets hope that much is true!

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Aut Vincere, aut Mori!


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:06:43 pm
dhill757

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   posted 07-26-2004 09:21 PM                       
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Tom, I've actually heard that the Library of Alexandria is ten thousand years older than we have given it credit for, but the source, I think was Cayce. You know a lot about Cayce, do you know anything more about that?
Rockessence, I have heard about another library in the north, but it's another one of those things where I can't remember the source off hand. What else do you know about it?



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:07:02 pm
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/05/26/egypt.university.discovery.ap/index.html
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:07:41 pm
dhill757

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Magic Engineer, with all due respect, your friend is a little whacked! There are many, many references to the Library of Alexandria in history. It survived, in part, at least, into Roman times, and the Romans kept very good records. Great that you have the temerity enough not to believe him, though. Off the topic, but I've also heard that the Romans built more roads by themselves than the whole of modern civilization..! That was from a documentary, though, so it may not be trustworthy.
Here is an interesting link on ancient technology. I'm quoting the part that concerns the Library of Alexandria, but the rest of the link is definitely worth checking out:
http://www.akri.org/museum/ancient.htm

An International Repository : The Great Library at Alexandria

The Great Library at Alexandria was the first recorded attempt at making a collection of all the world's
recorded knowledge. Records report that it was connected to the Mouseion, or Museum, the "Temple of the
Muses" which an academy of learned men dedicated to preservation, copying, cataloguing of knowledge.

The Great Library probably contained a lot of the knowledge of Ancient Egypt that was then taken to be
Greek. It also contained works from the Jewish, Babylonian and Zoroastrian and the newly emergent Roman
traditions. It probably housed about 40,000 publically available works out of a possible 5 million.

It was founded by the Pharaoh Ptolemy I Soter around 300 BCE and was greatly embellished by Ptolemy II
Philadelphus who gave it the mission of procuring a copy of every book that existed. Ptolemy III Euregetes
wrote to all the world's sovereigns asking to borrow their books in order to copy them. The Greeks lent him the
texts to Euripides, Aeschylus and Sophocles; he copied them, kept the originals and sent the copies back. In
doing so he forfeited the rich deposit he had laid down but he had the originals. Any ships that came into
Alexandria were searched for books and the same copying and return procedure was inflicted. Works were not
accepted as originals without rigorous textual criticism and comparison to other copies of the same work. In
this way scribal mistakes could be routed out.

Demetrius of Phaleron was the 1st recorded librarian at Alexandria between 290 - 282 BCE. Demetrius began
the translation of many works into Greek, his first job was the translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew
into Greek for which the Library hired 72 rabbis.

Kallimachos of Kyrene was the most famous librarian, implementing a subject index or Pinakes divided into 8
major subject categories; Oratory, History, Laws, Philosophy, Medicine, Lyric Poetry, Tragedy and Miscellany.
Some fragments of the Pinakes remain showing details of authors life, works and number of lines in each
work.

Destruction

There are records of the library's existence until around 300 CE although there are three main stories of it's
destruction before this date.


Julius Caesar

The library caught fire when Julius Caesar set fire to the Ptolemaic fleet in 48 BCE. However there are records
of the library functioning after this date.

Amr Ibn el-As

Took Alexandria for the Persian caliph Omar whose instructions have been recorded as:

"As for the books you mention, here is my reply. If their content is in accordance with the book of Allah,
we may do without them, for in that case the book of Allah more than suffices. If on the other hand,
they contain matter not in accordance with the book of Allah, there can be no need to preserve these.
Proceed, then, and destroy them."

The books were then allegedly taken to the public baths where they were burnt in the stoves that heated the
water. This took 6 months.

However, it has been argued that by the time the Arabs got to Alexandria the Library had already declined to a
shadow of it's former self and the logistics of burning so much parchment (which apparently doesn't burn very
well) were fairly infeasible.

Theophilus

Patriarch of Alexandria and patron saint of Arsonists. Said to have razed the Library around 391 AD in an
attempt to destroy symbols of paganism and get everyone to be a Christian.

Reading between the lines of the different accounts of the destruction of the library it would seem that it fell
into disrepair over the 600 or so years that it was in existence and was also subject to several major
catastrophes. As the coastline of Alexandria has changed so radically, it's position is now on the sea floor.



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:15:13 pm
Tom Hebert
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Dhill,
Yes, my source is Cayce. Here is the reading that comes to mind:


quote:
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315-4
Before that we find the entity was in the land that has been called the Atlantean, during those periods when there was the breaking up of the land and there had been the edict that the land must be changed.
The entity was among those that set sail for the Egyptian land, but entered rather into the Pyrenees and what is now the Portuguese, French and Spanish land. And there STILL may be seen in the chalk cliffs there in Calais [Galice?] the activities, where the marks of the entity's followers were made, as the attempts were set with those to create a temple activity to the follower of the law of One.
Then in the name Apex-l [Apex-el?], the entity lost and gained. Lost during those periods when there were the turmoils and strife that brought about the necessity for the sojourning from the land and the entering into the others.

Gained when there was the establishing of the associations with those that had built up the Egyptian land. And, as will be seen from those that may yet be found about Alexandria, the entity may be said to have been the first to begin the establishement of the library of knowledge in Alexandria; ten thousand three hundred before the Prince of Peace entered Egypt for His first initiation there. For, read ye, "He was crucified also in Egypt." [Rev. 11:8]


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Cayce also had a few comments about the destruction, which I will try to locate.

Tom



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:15:33 pm
rockessence

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   posted 07-27-2004 01:36 AM                       
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Dhill,
I enjoyed the site that piece is from. This quote is from a few paragraphs preceding earlier:

"Since those first excavations in Egypt, conventional Egyptology has helped to revise the Renaissance model and for almost a century that model has managed to accommodate the role of the Egyptians in the history of Knowledge. There are some however that The question that remains unanswered by Egyptology is that of how a civilisation so relatively technically advanced as the Eyptians could suddenly appear out of nowhere at such an early time in human development."

Then Tom offers:

"And, as will be seen from those that may yet be found about Alexandria, the entity may be said to have been the first to begin the establishement of the library of knowledge in Alexandria; ten thousand three hundred before the Prince of Peace entered Egypt for His first initiation there."

That would be 12,300 years before present. How does this align with all of you on the accepted timing of "Atlantis" being the progenitor of Egypt?



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:16:08 pm
 
Helios

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Excellent topic, here is some more material for it. I hope it will be of use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
The Royal Library of Alexandria was once the largest in the Mediterranean world. It is usually assumed to have been founded at the beginning of the 3rd century BC during the reign of Ptolemy II of Egypt after his father had set up the Temple of the Muses or Museum. The initial organization is attributed to Demetrius Phalereus. The Library is estimated to have stored at its peak 400,000 to 700,000 scrolls. A new library was inaugurated in 2003 near the site of the old library.
Table of contents
1 Overview
2 Destruction of the Great Library
2.1 Evidence for the existence of the Library after Caesar
2.2 Destruction of the pagan temples by Theophilus
2.3 Conclusions

3 Other libraries of the ancient world
4 References

Overview

One story holds that the Library was seeded with Aristotle's own private collection, through one of his students, Demetrius Phalereus. Another concerns how its collection grew so large. By decree of Ptolemy III of Egypt, all visitors to the city were required to surrender all books and scrolls in their possession; these writings were then swiftly copied by official scribes. The originals were put into the Library, and the copies were delivered to the previous owners. While encroaching on the rights of the traveler or merchant, it also helped to create a reservoir of books in the relatively new city.

The Library's contents were likely distributed over several buildings, with the main library either located directly attached to or close to the oldest building, the Museum, and a daughter library in the younger Serapeum, also a temple dedicated to the God Serapis. Edward Parsons provides the following description of the main library based on the existing historical records:

A reconstruction of the main hall of the Museum of Alexandria used in the series Cosmos by Carl Sagan. The wall portraits show Alexander the Great (left) and Serapis.


In this reconstruction, the doors from the Museum lead to storage rooms for the Library. Most of the books were probably stored in armaria, closed, labeled cupboards that were still used for book storage in medieval times.

A covered marble colonnade connected the Museum with an adjacent stately building, also in white marble and stone, architecturally harmonious, indeed forming an integral part of the vast pile, dedicated to learning by the wisdom of the first Ptolemy in following the advice and genius of Demetrios of Phaleron. This was the famous Library of Alexandria, the "Mother" library of the Museum, the Alexandriana, truly the foremost wonder of the ancient world. Here in ten great Halls, whose ample walls were lined with spacious armaria, numbered and titled, were housed the myriad manuscripts containing the wisdom, knowledge, and information, accumulated by the genius of the Hellenic peoples. Each of the ten Halls was assigned to a separate department of learning embracing the assumed ten divisions of Hellenic knowledge as may have been found in the Catalogue of Callimachus of Greek Literature in the Alexandrian Library, the farfamed Pinakes. The Halls were used by the scholars for general research, although there were smaller separate rooms for individuals or groups engaged in special studies.


In 2004 a Polish-Egyptian team claimed to have discovered part of the library while excavating in the Bruchion region. The archaeologists claimed to have found thirteen "lecture halls", each with a central podium. Zahi Hawass, president of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities said that all together, the rooms uncovered so far could have seated 5000 students.

To commemorate the ancient library, the government of Egypt has built a major library and museum complex at Alexandria, called the Bibliotheca Alexandrina(website (http://www.bibalex.gov.eg)).

Destruction of the Great Library

One of the reasons so little is known about the Library is that it was lost centuries after its creation. All that is left of many of the volumes are tantalizing titles that hint at all the history lost from the building's destruction. Few events in ancient history are as controversial as the destruction of the Library, as the historical record is both contradictory and incomplete. Not surprisingly, the Great Library became a symbol for knowledge itself, and its destruction was attributed to those who were portrayed as ignorant barbarians, often for purely political reasons.

Much of the debate rests on a different understanding of what constituted the actual Library. Large parts of the Library were likely decentralized, so it is appropriate to also speak of the "Alexandrian libraries". Both the Serapeum, a temple and daughter library, and the Museum itself existed until about 400 CE. Only if one believes the Museum to be distinct from the Great Library, an event of destruction prior to that point becomes plausible.

One account of such an event of destruction concerns Julius Caesar. During his invasion of Alexandria in 47–48 BCE, Caesar set the enemy fleet in the harbor on fire. Some historians believe that this fire spread into the city and destroyed the entire library. While this interpretation is now a minority view, it is based on several ancient sources, all of which were written at least about 150 years after the destruction supposedly took place. Edward Parsons has analyzed the Caesar theory in his book The Alexandrian Library and summarizes the sources as follows:

A final summary is interesting: of the 16 writers, 10, Caesar himself, the author of the Alexandrian War, Cicero, Strabo, Livy (as far as we know), Lucan, Florus, Suetonius, Appian, and even Athenaeus apparently knew nothing of the burning of the Museum, of the Library, or of Books during Caesar's visit to Egypt; and 6 tell of the incident as follows:


1. Seneca (AD 49), the first writer to mention it (and that nearly 100 years after the alleged event), definitely says that 40,000 books were burned.


2. Plutarch (c. 117) says that the fire destroyed the great Library.


3. Aulus Gellius (123 - 169) says that during the "sack" of Alexandria 700,000 volumes were all burned.


4. Dio Cassius (155 - 235) says that storehouses containing grain and books were burned, and that these books were of great number and excellence.


5. Ammianus Marcellinus (390) says that in the "sack" of the city 70,000 volumes were burned.


6. Orosius (c. 415), the last writer, singularly confirms Seneca as to number and the thing destroyed: 40,000 books.


Of all the sources, Plutarch is the only one to refer explicitly to the destruction of the Library. Plutarch was also the first writer to refer to Caesar by name. Ammianus Marcellinus' account seems to be directly based on Aulus Gellius because the wording is almost the same.

The majority of ancient historians, even those strongly politically opposed to Caesar, give no account of the alleged massive disaster. Cecile Orru argued in "Antike Bibliotheken" (2002, edited by Wolfgang Höpfner) that Caesar cannot have destroyed the Library because it was located in the royal quarter of the city, where Caesar's troops were fortified after the fire (which would not have been possible if the fire had spread to that location).

Furthermore, the Library was a very large stone building and the scrolls were stored away in armaria (and some of them put in capsules), so it is hard to see how a fire in the harbor could have affected a significant part of its contents. Lastly, modern archaeological finds have confirmed an extensive ancient water supply network which covered the major parts of the city, including, of course, the royal quarter.

The destruction of the library is attributed by some historians to a period of civil war in the late 3rd century CE -- but we know that the Museum, which was adjacent to the library, survived until the 4th century. There are also allegations dating to medieval times that claim that Caliph Omar, during an invasion in the 7th century, ordered the Library to be destroyed, but these claims are generally regarded as a Christian attack on Muslims, and include many indications of fabrication, such as the claim that the contents of the Library took six months to burn in Alexandria's public baths.

Evidence for the existence of the Library after Caesar

As noted above, it is generally accepted that the Museum of Alexandria existed until ca. 400 CE, and if the Museum and the Library are considered to be largely identical or attached to one another, earlier accounts of destruction could only concern a small number of books stored elsewhere. This is consistent with the number given by Seneca, much smaller than the overall volume of books in the Library. So under this interpretation it is plausible that, for example, books stored in a warehouse near the harbor were accidentally destroyed by Caesar, and that larger numbers cited in some works have to be considered unreliable -- misinterpretations by the medieval monks who preserved these works through the Middle Ages, or deliberate forgeries.

Inscription referring to the Alexandrian library, dated 56 CE

Even if one considers the Museum and the Library to be very much separate, there is considerable evidence that the Library continued to exist after the alleged destruction. Plutarch, who claimed the Great Library was destroyed (150 years after the alleged incident), in Life of Antony describes the later transfer of the second largest library to Alexandria by Mark Antony as a gift to Cleopatra. He quotes Calvisius as claiming "that [Mark Antony] had given her the library of Pergamus, containing two hundred thousand distinct volumes", although he himself finds Calvisius' claims hard to believe. In "Einführung in die Überlieferungsgeschichte" (1994, p. 39), Egert Pöhlmann cites further expansions of the Alexandrian libraries by Augustus (in the year 12 CE) and Claudius (41-54 CE). Even if the most extreme allegations against Caesar were true, this raises the question of what happened to these volumes.

The continued existence of the Library is also supported by an ancient inscription found in the early 20th century, dedicated to Tiberius Claudius Balbillus of Rome (d. 56 CE). As noted in the "Handbuch der Bibliothekswissenschaft" (Georg Leyh, Wiesbaden 1955):

"We have to understand the office which Ti. Claudius Balbillus held [...], which included the title 'supra Museum et ab Alexandrina bibliotheca', to have combined the direction of the Museum with that of the united libraries, as an academy."

Athenaeus (c. 200 CE) wrote in detail in the Deipnosophistai about the wealth of Ptolemy II (309-246 BC) and the type and number of his ships. When it came to the Library and Museum, he wrote: "Why should I now have to point to the books, the establishment of libraries and the collection in the Museum, when this is in every man's memory?" Given the context of his statement, and the fact that the Museum still existed at the time, it is clear that Athenaeus cannot have referred to any event of destruction -- he considered both facilities to be so famous that it was not necessary for him to describe them in detail. We must therefore conclude that at least some of the Alexandrian libraries were still in operation at the time.

Destruction of the pagan temples by Theophilus

In the late 4th century, persecution of pagans by Christians had reached new levels of intensity. Temples and statues were destroyed throughout the Roman empire, pagan rituals forbidden under punishment of death, and libraries closed. In 391 CE, Emperor Theodosius ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and the bishop of Alexandria, Theophilus, complied with this request. Socrates Scholasticus provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria:

5th century scroll which illustrates the destruction of the Serapeum by Theophilus (source: Christopher Haas: Alexandria in late antiquity, Baltimore 1997)

"Demolition of the Idolatrous Temples at Alexandria, and the Consequent Conflict between the Pagans and Christians."


"At the solicitation of Theophilus bishop of Alexandria the emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rights of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum. [...] Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples. These were therefore razed to the ground, and the images of their gods molten into pots and other convenient utensils for the use of the Alexandrian church; for the emperor had instructed Theophilus to distribute them for the relief of the poor. All the images were accordingly broken to pieces, except one statue of the god before mentioned, which Theophilus preserved and set up in a public place; `Lest,' said he, `at a future time the heathens should deny that they had ever worshiped such gods.'"


The Serapeum housed part of the Library, but it is not known how many books were contained in it at the time of destruction. Notably, Paulus Orosius admitted in his History against the pagans: "[T]oday there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen, and, when these temples were plundered, these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our time, which, indeed, is a true statement." This indicates that any books that existed in the Serapeum at the time were destroyed when it was razed to the ground.


As for the Museum, Mostafa El-Abbadi writes in Life and Fate of the ancient Library of Alexandria (Paris 1992):

"The Mouseion, being at the same time a 'shrine of the Muses', enjoyed a degree of sanctity as long as other pagan temples remained unmolested. Synesius of Cyrene, who studied under Hypatia at the end of the fourth century, saw the Mouseion and described the images of the philosophers in it. We have no later reference to its existence in the fifth century. As Theon, the distinguished mathematician and father of Hypatia, herself a renowned scholar, was the last recorded scholar-member (c. 380), it is likely that the Mouseion did not long survive the promulgation of Theodosius' decree in 391 to destroy all pagan temples in the City."

Conclusions

There is a growing consensus among historians that the Library of Alexandria likely suffered from several destructive events, but that the destruction of Alexandria's pagan temples in the late 4th century was probably the most severe and final one. The evidence for that destruction is the most definitive and secure. Caesar's invasion may well have led to the loss of some 40,000-70,000 scrolls in a warehouse adjacent to the port (as Luciano Canfora argues, they were likely copies produced by the Library intended for export), but it is unlikely to have affected the Library or Museum, given that there is ample evidence that both existed later.

Civil wars, decreasing investments in maintenance and acquisition of new scrolls and generally declining interest in non-religious pursuits likely contributed to a reduction in the body of material available in the Library, especially in the fourth century. The Serapeum was certainly destroyed by Theophilus in 391, and the Museum and Library may have fallen victim to the same campaign.

If indeed a Christian mob was responsible for the destruction of the Library, the question remains why Plutarch casually referred to the destruction of "the great library" by Caesar in his Life of Caesar. It is important to note that most surviving ancient works, including Plutarch, were copied throughout the Middle Ages by Christian monks. During this copying process, errors have sometimes been made, and some have argued that deliberate forgery is not out of the question, especially for politically sensitive issues. Other explanations are certainly possible, and the fate of the Library will continue to be the subject of much heated historical debate.
[edit]


Other libraries of the ancient world

* The library of King Ashurbanipal, in Nineveh— Considered to be "the first systematically collected library", it was rediscovered in the 19th century. While the library had been destroyed, many fragments of the ancient cuneiform tables survived, and have been reconstructed. Large portions of the Epic of Gilgagmesh were among the many finds.


* The Villa of the Papyrii, in Herculaneum— One of the largest libraries of ancient Rome. Thought to have been destroyed in the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. Rediscovered in 1752, the contents of the library were found to have been carbonized. Using modern techniques, the scrolls are currently being meticulously unrolled, and the writing deciphered.

References

* Luciano Canfora: The Vanished Library. A Wonder of the Ancient World, trans. Martin Ryle. University of California Press. Berkeley, 1989 ISBN 0-520-07255-3
* Mostafa El-Abbadi: Life and fate of the ancient Library of Alexandria. Paris: UNESCO, 1992 (second, revised edition) ISBN 92-3-102632-1
* Paulus Orosius: The seven books of history against the pagans. Translated by Roy J. Deferrari. The Catholic University of America, Washington 1964.
* Edward Parsons: The Alexandrian Library. London, 1952. Relevant online excerpt (http://www.humanist.de/rome/alexandria/alex2.html).

External links

* Ellen N. Brundige: "The Library of Alexandria" (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/Students/Ellen/Museum.html)
* James Hannam: "The Mysterious Fate of the Great Library of Alexandria" (http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm) and "The Foundation and Loss of the Royal and Serapeum Libraries of Alexandria" (http://www.bede.org.uk/Library2.htm). Hannam, "a member of the Christian Cadre of internet apologists", analyzes the destruction of the Library and concludes that Caesar is most likely to be responsible.
* Bibliotheca Alexandrina (http://www.bibalex.org/)



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Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:16:29 pm
bluducky

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   posted 07-27-2004 03:19 AM                       
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If one thinks about the Library, (actually, I read somewhere that it was not just one, NOR two, but at least three libraries, scattered about the city)
Perhaps the 'library' was itself the legendary 'Hall of Records'?
Plato is not the only source of the Atlantis story either. There were other scholars of the Classical Period who also considered Atlantis something worth studying/recording. The only name I can think about at the moment is Homer, in His Illiad.



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:16:56 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 07-27-2004 04:49 AM                       
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World's 'oldest university' unearthed in Egypt
Wednesday, May 26, 2004 Posted: 4:04 PM EDT (2004 GMT)


CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Polish archaeologists have unearthed 13 lecture halls believed to be the first traces ever found of ancient Egypt's University of Alexandria, the head of the project said Wednesday.
"This is the oldest university ever found in the world," Grzegory Majderek, head of the Polish mission, told The Associated Press.

The lecture halls, with a capacity of 5,000 students, are part of the 5th century university, which functioned until the 7th century, according to a statement from Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities.

"This is the first material evidence of the existence of academic life in Alexandria," Majderek said. Knowledge of earlier intellectual pursuits in the Mediterranean coastal city came through historical and literary documents and materials.

Ancient Alexandria was home to a library, which was founded about 295 B.C. and burned to the ground in the 4th century. Ruins were never found, but Alexandria was an intellectual center where scholars are thought to have produced the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, and edited Homer's works.

The auditoriums were found near the portico of the Roman Theater in the eastern part of the ancient city.

All the lecture halls are of identical dimensions. Each contains rows of stepped benches in a form of semicircle and an elevated seat apparently for the lecturer, the Antiquities Department statement said.

Alexandria has tried to recapture some of its intellectual glory, building a $230 million library on the city's renovated seaside promenade with help from around the world.

The new library, which opened in 2002, contains about 240,000 books, a planetarium, conference hall, five research institutes, six galleries and three museums.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/05/26/egypt.university.discovery.ap/index.html



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:18:07 pm
Chronos

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   posted 07-27-2004 07:59 AM                       
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Ideoxaprist, thank you for the compliment, I look forward to reading more of your own contributions.
Rockessence, it seems unlikely that another ancient library also existed in Scotland, at least in the same time as Alexandria, do you have any more information about it?

Tom, I would be interested also in hearing
the Edgar Cayce reading dealing with the library (libraries) when you locate it, if only to compare it with what we already know of the Library of Alexandria.

quote:

"In 2004 a Polish-Egyptian team claimed to have discovered part of the library while excavating in the Bruchion region. The archaeologists claimed to have found thirteen "lecture halls", each with a central podium. Zahi Hawass, president of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities said that all together, the rooms uncovered so far could have seated 5000 students."

This might well be Alexandria. I wish that the article would have been more specific about the location. This should have been given more press, if it's true! I am skeptical at the moment, though, until I hear more information. At least the names mentioned in the article are reputable ones (somewhat anyway).

Dhill, Helios & Docyabut, interesting contributions. I especially liked the sourcing on your article, Helios.

Has anyone come upon anymore information about the specific ancient knowledge kept there as well as any link it may have had to Atlantis?



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:18:24 pm
Anteros

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   posted 07-27-2004 09:57 AM                       
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Magic Engineer said:

quote:
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I have a friend who is going to study to be an archeologist...and according to him, some archeologists theorize that the Library of Alexandria wasn't in Alexandria at all! ...That being said, it's possible we might one day find the TRUE library, and find even greater riches...
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I think this attitude probably springs from Clive Cussler's book "Treasure." It has inspired lots of people to think maybe a part of the library exists somewhere, much like "Atlantis, the Antediluvian World," by Ignatius Donnelly has inspired so many people to look for evidence of Atlantis. True, Cussler's book was a novel wheras Donnelly says, "That the description of this island given by Plato is not, as has been long supposed, fable, but veritable history."

But who knows, really? I'd love for it to be true, especially if we could find the lost works of Archimedes. Wouldn't that just Rock?!



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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:18:46 pm
Anteros

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   posted 07-27-2004 10:06 AM                       
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For those of you who haven't read Donnelly's book, it's available online HERE to read for free.
Sorry, you have to buy the Cussler book!





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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:19:09 pm
Chronos

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   posted 07-27-2004 11:54 AM                       
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Actually, Anteros, there are several different accounts attesting to the library's existence. It isn't like Atlantis where we only, albeit arguably, have only the one source. In addition, the writers are some of the most respected of antiquity.
The only facts that seem to be up for dispute is how it was actually destroyed, and by whom.

Quote (from Helios' material, see above):

1. Seneca (AD 49), the first writer to mention it (and that nearly 100 years after the alleged event), definitely says that 40,000 books were burned.


2. Plutarch (c. 117) says that the fire destroyed the great Library.


3. Aulus Gellius (123 - 169) says that during the "sack" of Alexandria 700,000 volumes were all burned.


4. Dio Cassius (155 - 235) says that storehouses containing grain and books were burned, and that these books were of great number and excellence.


5. Ammianus Marcellinus (390) says that in the "sack" of the city 70,000 volumes were burned.


6. Orosius (c. 415), the last writer, singularly confirms Seneca as to number and the thing destroyed: 40,000 books.

Of all the sources, Plutarch is the only one to refer explicitly to the destruction of the Library. Plutarch was also the first writer to refer to Caesar by name. Ammianus Marcellinus' account seems to be directly based on Aulus Gellius because the wording is almost the same.



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:19:31 pm
Anteros

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   posted 07-27-2004 12:08 PM                       
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quote:
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Of all the sources, Plutarch is the only one to refer explicitly to the destruction of the Library
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So you believe it may actually still exist? Or at least the works thereof? Like I said, that would be very cool.



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:19:49 pm
Chronos

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   posted 07-27-2004 12:27 PM                       
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That's a good question. Well, first of all we have to find out where it was, then we can begin looking for lost knowledge. I suppose, if there is any, we'd be lucky for what we would find.
Even though Plutarch is the only one that specifically mentions the library's destruction, you'll notice that most of the ancien scholars mention the destruction of the books, though the numbers seem to vary. As I said, we'd be lucky if we found anything at all. Then, the ruins of Plato's academy have a similar problem!


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:20:07 pm
Helios

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   posted 07-27-2004 06:41 PM                       
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I agree, the knowledge might well never be found, even if they do stumble on some ruins. Knowledge is the thing that most counts, correct..?
All of Alexandria has taken quite a beating. The Pharos lighthouse, a "wonder of the world" also lies at the bottom of the sea. The archaeologists diving near Alexandria claim to have found parts of it, but, from what I have heard, that is still a matter up for some dispute.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:20:26 pm
rockessence

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   posted 07-27-2004 07:02 PM                       
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dhill,
The only other thing was rather squirrelly: That when the Library at Alexandria burned, there were those who were relieved that there still remained the one in the North....Who knows?

To repeat my original question:

"I remember hearing years ago that the other "Great Library" (University) of the time was in Scotland and that many great families of the Mediterranean area sent their sons all the way up there to be educated.

Anybody else hear anything on this?"



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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:20:49 pm
Absonite

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  posted 07-27-2004 08:50 PM                       
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friends,
I never quite realized before but there is quite an amazing account of the Library in the Urantia book. Not only did Jesus visit the library and give quite a bit of information about it, including the size and volumes contained but the exact location. Additionally, The Urantia papers contain 196 different papers. All 196 of them are by supermortal authors.... but, 2 are about and completely dedicated to Rodan of Alexandria, surely a valuable contributor to the library. the links follow this short account.....
"3. AT ALEXANDRIA


Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê It had been an eventful visit at Caesarea, and when the boat was ready, Jesus and his two friends departed at noon one day for Alexandria in Egypt.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The three enjoyed a most pleasant passage to Alexandria. Ganid was delighted with the voyage and kept Jesus busy answering questions. As they approached the city's harbor, the young man was thrilled by the great lighthouse of Pharos, located on the island which Alexander had joined by a mole to the mainland, thus creating two magnificent harbors and thereby making Alexandria the maritime commercial crossroads of Africa, Asia, and Europe. This great lighthouse was one of the seven wonders of the world and was the forerunner of all subsequent lighthouses. They arose early in the morning to view this splendid lifesaving device of man, and amidst the exclamations of Ganid Jesus said: "And you, my son, will be like this lighthouse when you return to India, even after your father is laid to rest; you will become like the light of life to those who sit about you in darkness, showing all who so desire the way to reach the harbor of salvation in safety." And as Ganid squeezed Jesus' hand, he said, "I will."

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê And again we remark that the early teachers of the Christian religion made a great mistake when they so exclusively turned their attention to the western civilization of the Roman world. The teachings of Jesus, as they were held by the Mesopotamian believers of the first century, would have been readily received by the various groups of Asiatic religionists.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê By the fourth hour after landing they were settled near the eastern end of the long and broad avenue, one hundred feet wide and five miles long, which stretched on out to the western limits of this city of one million people. After the first survey of the city's chief attractionsÖuniversity (museum), library, the royal mausoleum of Alexander, the palace, temple of Neptune, theater, and gymnasiumÖGonod addressed himself to business while Jesus and Ganid went to the library, the greatest in the world. Here were assembled nearly a million manuscripts from all the civilized world: Greece, Rome, Palestine, Parthia, India, China, and even Japan. In this library Ganid saw the largest collection of Indian literature in all the world; and they spent some time here each day throughout their stay in Alexandria. Jesus told Ganid about the translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek at this place. And they discussed again and again all the religions of the world, Jesus endeavoring to point out to this young mind the truth in each, always adding: "But Yahweh is the God developed from the revelations of Melchizedek and the covenant of Abraham. The Jews were the offspring of Abraham and subsequently occupied the very land wherein Melchizedek had lived and taught, and from which he sent teachers to all the world; and their religion eventually portrayed a clearer recognition of the Lord God of Israel as the Universal Father in heaven than any other world religion."

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Under Jesus' direction Ganid made a collection of the teachings of all those religions of the world which recognized a Universal Deity, even though they might also give more or less recognition to subordinate deities. After much discussion Jesus and Ganid decided that the Romans had no real God in their religion, that their religion was hardly more than emperor worship. The Greeks,
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they concluded, had a philosophy but hardly a religion with a personal God. The mystery cults they discarded because of the confusion of their multiplicity, and because their varied concepts of Deity seemed to be derived from other and older religions.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Although these translations were made at Alexandria, Ganid did not finally arrange these selections and add his own personal conclusions until near the end of their sojourn in Rome. He was much surprised to discover that the best of the authors of the world's sacred literature all more or less clearly recognized the existence of an eternal God and were much in agreement with regard to his character and his relationship with mortal man.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Jesus and Ganid spent much time in the museum during their stay in Alexandria. This museum was not a collection of rare objects but rather a university of fine art, science, and literature. Learned professors here gave daily lectures, and in those times this was the intellectual center of the Occidental world. Day by day Jesus interpreted the lectures to Ganid; one day during the second week the young man exclaimed: "Teacher Joshua, you know more than these professors; you should stand up and tell them the great things you have told me; they are befogged by much thinking. I shall speak to my father and have him arrange it." Jesus smiled, saying: "You are an admiring pupil, but these teachers are not minded that you and I should instruct them. The pride of unspiritualized learning is a treacherous thing in human experience. The true teacher maintains his intellectual integrity by ever remaining a learner."

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Alexandria was the city of the blended culture of the Occident and next to Rome the largest and most magnificent in the world. Here was located the largest Jewish synagogue in the world, the seat of government of the Alexandria Sanhedrin, the seventy ruling elders.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Among the many men with whom Gonod transacted business was a certain Jewish banker, Alexander, whose brother, Philo, was a famous religious philosopher of that time. Philo was engaged in the laudable but exceedingly difficult task of harmonizing Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology. Ganid and Jesus talked much about Philo's teachings and expected to attend some of his lectures, but throughout their stay at Alexandria this famous Hellenistic Jew lay sick abed.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Jesus commended to Ganid much in the Greek philosophy and the Stoic doctrines, but he impressed upon the lad the truth that these systems of belief, like the indefinite teachings of some of his own people, were religions only in the sense that they led men to find God and enjoy a living experience in knowing the Eternal.

4. DISCOURSE ON REALITY


Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The night before they left Alexandria Ganid and Jesus had a long visit with one of the government professors at the university who lectured on the teachings of Plato. Jesus interpreted for the learned Greek teacher but injected no teaching of his own in refutation of the Greek philosophy. Gonod was away on business that evening; so, after the professor had departed, the teacher and his pupil had a long and heart-to-heart talk about Plato's doctrines. While Jesus gave qualified approval of some of the Greek teachings which had to do with the theory that the material things of the world are shadowy reflections of invisible but more substantial spiritual realities, he sought to lay a more trustworthy foundation
for the lad's thinking; so he began a long dissertation concerning the nature of reality in the universe. In substance and in modern phraseology Jesus said to Ganid:

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The source of universe reality is".......
http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper130.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper130.html&line=81#mfs


7. SHINTO

Only recently had the manuscripts of this Far-Eastern religion been lodged in the Alexandrian library. It was the one world religion of which Ganid had never heard. This belief also contained remnants of the earlier Melchizedek teachings as is shown by the following abstracts:
http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper131.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper131.html&line=130#mf s


Aside from Jesus, Paul of Tarsus and Philo of Alexandria were the greatest teachers of this era. Their concepts of religion have played a dominant part in the evolution of that faith which bears the name of Christ.

******

Rodan of Alexandria
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper160.html
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper161.html


enjoy.....





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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:21:13 pm
Tom Hebert
Member
Member # 999

  posted 07-28-2004 06:05 PM                       
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I have enjoyed reading about the available evidence for the existence and destruction of the great library of Alexandria. It amazes me that for such a great institution of knowledge and learning we do not know where the building existed, when it was destroyed or who destroyed it!
The Cayce readings lend support to many of the ideas that have been expressed here so far. The readings especially support the idea the the library had multiple locations and that different groups contributing to the destruction at different time periods.

This reading was for a woman who had lived a life in ancient Egypt.


quote:
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31-1
In the one before this in the period when the entity was as the recorder of conditions then in the land now known as Egypt. The entity then the historian, the writer of the day, and many of those writings as made by the entity were destroyed in the Memphis and Alexandrian libraries; yet some may yet be found in those casements in the pyramid [not] yet uncovered. In that period the entity gave most to the peoples through the ability to coordinate the teachings of the land and the teachings of those in power. Even when the division arose, the entity able to record the actions of each division without showing favor or partiality in either division. Hence the entity was accorded a place of power, position, during that period, by the ruler and by the seer and by him who was ruled as of power in the beginning of this rule. In the name Aassa. The entity gained through this experience, and hence that innate desire to write of such as was experienced often creeps in when the entity least desires same to do so; yet, as given, were the entity to write along these lines the greater success would come to the entity through these channels, for from THIS experience - with that attained in Mercurian forces, as is weighed with the influence of love and Jupiterian - power, glory, honor, bigness of all applicable forces brings the abilities to the entity in the present.
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This reading was for a man who also lived in ancient Egypt. It emphasizes the unique significance of this library and suggests that Alexandria was origially called Deosho.


quote:
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412-5
In the one then before this we find in that experience when there were divisions in the land now known as the Egyptian, land in those periods when there were the reconstruction of those lands and the dividing up of those peoples as to the various rulers, or those who had charge over various portions of the lands and peoples. The entity then among those, or that ONE given charge of that land THEN known as Deosho (?) - now Alexandria - that founded that making for the greatest collection of manuscripts, of writings, of the various forces, that has ever been known in the WORLD of experience in the earth's plane. The ENTITY then the FOUNDER of that as carried on by successive generations of the entity's descendants, as Arieecel [Ariecel]. In this experience the entity gained much through those associations of the ruler and of those that acted with the peoples that became emissaries; for as this was the outlet to many portions of the country to which emissaries and ambassadors were sent, the entity acted in the capacity of the one making the exchange and supplying those forces that builded for relationships with groups and individuals. Hence the ability to meet many elements as may arise in associations or relations with individuals, groups, classes or masses.
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This reading for a contemporary of Barnabas suggests that at least some of the destruction occurred in the second century A.D.


quote:
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452-5
He assisted Barnabas in the establishing of the church in northern Africa, or Alexandria, where so MUCH persecution LATER was shown in the activities in that center. Much that was compiled by the entity in this land was destroyed in or during the second century. This had been compiled in the great library in Alexandria. There are still intact some writings that may yet be reclaimed, in some of the ruins about the place; as well as in some of those cities in Chaldea and Persia where the entity in the last days went in company with Andrew.
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Finally, a reading for an individual who had been one of Herod's wives suggest that Christians, Jews and Muslims may have been partially to blame for the loss.


quote:
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2067-7
(Q) A Reading states that the historic events from the time of the prophets until Christ were written by Thesea, Herod's wife. [See 2067-1, Par. 57 indicating her writings were BASED ON the Alexandrian and the "city in hills" records.] Why did her children destroy these writings in the Alexandrian Library, and are there any of these writings left on earth at the present time?
(A) Her children did not destroy them. They were destroyed by the Mohammedans and the divisions in the church, who were of the Jews and not the Romans nor the mixture of the Roman and Jewish influence. There are not those records save as may be attained from some present in the Vatican.
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Posts: 813 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:21:35 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 07-28-2004 07:30 PM                       
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Tom
you just wrote.
"I have enjoyed reading about the available evidence for the existence and destruction of the great library of Alexandria. It amazes me that for such a great institution of knowledge and learning we do not know where the building existed, "
Well Tom besides your following my outstanding post with this Edgar cayce claptrap,.... It really amazes me that I just posted the location of the library......
"By the fourth hour after landing they were settled near the eastern end of the long and broad avenue, one hundred feet wide and five miles long, which stretched on out to the western limits of this city of one million people. After the first survey of the city's chief attractionsÖuniversity (museum), library, the royal mausoleum of Alexander, the palace, temple of Neptune, theater, and gymnasiumÖGonod addressed himself to business while Jesus and Ganid went to the library, the greatest in the world. Here were assembled nearly a million manuscripts from all the civilized world: Greece, Rome, Palestine, Parthia, India, China, and even Japan. In this library Ganid saw the largest collection of Indian literature in all the world; and they spent some time here each day throughout their stay in Alexandria. "

Now Tom what about this don't you understand?


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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:21:54 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 07-28-2004 08:13 PM                       
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Hi Tom ,Cayce did say that Jesus studyed with Judy or Jewry in Egypt,which makes me believe that is where Jewdism might have came from.
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Posts: 7893 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000  |


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:22:12 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 07-28-2004 08:42 PM                       
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He also said there are records of Jesus there in the pyramid, still undiscovered. Maybe the findings will coincide in the meaning of a second comming.
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Posts: 7893 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:22:34 pm
Apollo

Member
Member # 2018

Member Rated:
   posted 07-28-2004 11:48 PM                   
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Absonite and Tom, you both have some very interesting material on the library, but as for it specifically telling us where the library is (was), it actually isn't very specific:

quote:
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By the fourth hour after landing they were settled near the eastern end of the long and broad avenue, one hundred feet wide and five miles long, which stretched on out to the western limits of this city of one million people.
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Here is a passage that describes the layout of ancient Alexandria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria


quote:
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Layout of the Ancient City
The Greek Alexandria was divided into three regions:

1. The Jews' quarter, forming the northeast portion of the city;
2. Rhacotis, on the west, occupied chiefly by Egyptians;
3. Brucheum, the Royal or Greek quarter, forming the most magnificent portion of the city.


In Roman times Brucheum was enlarged by the addition of an official quarter, making up four regions in all. The city was laid out as a grid of parallel streets, each of which had an attendant subterranean canal.

Two main streets, lined with colonnades and said to have been each about 60 meters (200 feet) wide, intersected in the centre of the city, close to the point where rose the Sema (or Soma) of Alexander (i.e. his Mausoleum). This point is very near the present mosque of Nebi Daniel; and the line of the great east-west "Canopic" street only slightly diverged from that of the modern Boulevard de Rosette. Traces of its pavement and canal have been found near the Rosetta Gate, but better remains of streets and canals were exposed in 1899 by German excavators outside the east fortifications, which lie well within the area of the ancient city.

Alexandria consisted originally of little more than the island of Pharos, which was joined to the mainland by a mole nearly a mile long and called the Heptastadion ("seven stadia" -- a stadium was a Roman unit measuring somewhat more than 200m). The end of this abutted on the land at the head of the present Grand Square, where rose the "Moon Gate." All that now lies between that point and the modern Ras et-Tin quarter is built on the silt which gradually widened and obliterated this mole. The Ras et-Tin quarter represents all that is left of the island of Pharos, the site of the actual lighthouse having been weathered away by the sea. On the east of the mole was the Great Harbour, now an open bay; on the west lay the port of Eunostos, with its inner basin Kibotos, now vastly enlarged to form the modern harbour.

In Strabo's time, (latter half of 1st century BC) the principal buildings were as follows, enumerated as they were to be seen from a ship entering the Great Harbour.

1. The Royal Palaces, filling the northeast angle of the town and occupying the promontory of Lochias, which shut in the Great Harbour on the east. Lochias (the modern Pharillon) has almost entirely disappeared into the sea, together with the palaces, the "Private Port" and the island of Antirrhodus. There has been a land subsidence here, as throughout the northeast coast of Africa.
2. The Great Theatre, on the modern Hospital Hill near the Ramleh station. This was used by Caesar as a fortress, where he stood a siege from the city mob after the battle of Pharsalus
3. The Poseideion, or Temple of the Sea God, close to the Theatre
4. The Timonium built by Mark Antony
5. The Emporium (Exchange)
6. The Apostases (Magazines)
7. The Navalia (Docks), lying west of the Timonium, along the sea-front as far as the mole
8. Behind the Emporium rose the Great Caesareum, by which stood the two great obelisks, each later known as "Cleopatra's Needle," and now removed to New York and London. This temple became in time the Patriarchal Church, some remains of which have been discovered; but the actual Caesareum, so far as not eroded by the waves, lies under the houses lining the new sea-wall.
9. The Gymnasium and the Palaestra are both inland, near the Boulevard de Rosette in the eastern half of the town; sites unknown.
10. The Temple of Saturn; site unknown.
11. The Mausolea of Alexander (Soma) and the Ptolemies in one ring-fence, near the point of intersection of the two main streets
12. The Museum with its library and theatre in the same region; site unknown.
13. The Serapeum, the most famous of all Alexandrian temples. Strabo tells us that this stood in the west of the city; and recent discoveries go far to place it near "Pompey's Pillar" which, however, was an independent monument erected to commemorate Diocletian's siege of the city.


We know the names of a few other public buildings on the mainland, but nothing as to their position.

On the eastern point of the Pharos island stood the Great Lighthouse, one of the "Seven Wonders," reputed to be 122 meters (400 feet) high. The first Ptolemy began it, and the second completed it, at a total cost of 800 talents. It took 12 years to construct. It is the prototype of all lighthouses in the world. The light was produced by a furnace at the top. It was built mostly with solid blocks of limestone. The Pharos lighthouse was destroyed by an earthquake.

A temple of Hephaestus also stood on Pharos at the head of the mole. In the Augustan age the population of Alexandria was estimated at 300,000 free folk, in addition to an immense number of slaves.


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As you can see, even the best descriptions of Alexandria tend to be vague as to where the original library was. It is also worth noting that most of the original ancient city has been destroyed by earthquakes and the royal and civic quarters have sunk beneath the harbor.

Interesting section about Jesus, though, Absonite. Scholars have long theorized that Jesus visited Egypt and the library while he was alive, now there is an account of it.


[This message has been edited by Apollo (edited 07-28-2004).]


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Posts: 192 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Jun 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:22:54 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 07-29-2004 12:56 AM                       
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Apollo,
just a wild guess, but it appears the recital of the main points were most likely seen as one would see while walking. This would place the library as the third main structure before Neptunes temple, or as Wikipedia calls it, Poseideion., and just after the museum. Although the account in Wikipedia is the most interesting and closest so far, so far, I would trust the accuracy of the Urantia account above all the others. I see no reason why these "attractions" would have been taken out of order of appearance as one walked the avenue.
"After the first survey of the city's chief attractionsÖuniversity (museum), library, the royal mausoleum of Alexander, the palace, temple of Neptune, theater, and gymnasium


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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:23:13 pm
Tom Hebert
Member
Member # 999

  posted 07-29-2004 05:54 AM                       
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Apollo wrote

quote:
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Absonite and Tom, you both have some very interesting material on the library, but as for it specifically telling us where the library is (was), it actually isn't very specific:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I can't argue with that. However, Cayce and others have suggested a possible reason. There was probably more that one location. In other words, it may have been a library system located in and around Alexandria.

Tom



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Posts: 813 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:23:31 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

Member Rated:
   posted 07-29-2004 08:40 AM                       
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I think that Apollo's point, and Tom's as well, is that, due to the earthquake damage and the fact that modern Alexandria has built over much of the ancient one, we cannot be sure where the library was.
I suggest we look for maps of ancient Alexandria and see if we have more than one that specifies the location of the ancient library.
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/citylife/images/alexandria_plan.gif
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/alexandria/Gallery/old_map.gif

Here are two more links to Alexandria that I thought were useful:
http://www.mythinglinks.org/afr~egy~alexandria.html
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/alexandria/links.html#library



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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:25:13 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

Member Rated:
   posted 07-29-2004 08:47 AM                       
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The sunken quarters of Alexandria:
http://www.underwaterdiscovery.org/english/projects/alexandria/map/complete.asp
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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:25:36 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

Member Rated:
   posted 07-29-2004 08:49 AM                       
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Artist's view of what the sunken quarters may have looked like above water:
http://www.underwaterdiscovery.org/english/projects/alexandria/map/artistview.asp
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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:25:51 pm
Akata

Member
Member # 1492

Member Rated:
   posted 07-29-2004 10:03 AM                       
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nollage of the libarz is nothing comparted whan lies in the underground chambers of the nollage of acient era is stored and awaits to be use for the benefids of entire mankind
yes the nollage was great in libary of alexadria,but noting comares againd the nollage of acient altantis
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Posts: 1151 | From: Maribor,Štajerska,Slovenian | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:26:08 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

Member Rated:
   posted 08-02-2004 09:39 AM                       
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ANCIENT INVENTIONS:
http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient_inventions/hsclist.htm
The Bagdad Battery: http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/bbattery.htm

[This message has been edited by Chronos (edited 08-02-2004).]


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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 200


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:26:44 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

Member Rated:
   posted 08-02-2004 10:14 AM                       
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http://www.infohistory.com/creative.shtml
"A bird is an instrument of flight obeying mathematical laws which man has the capacity to comprehend and master." - Leonardo da Vinci

Ages ago civilizations from the peaks of the Andes to the deserts of North Africa made numerous discoveries. This body of knowledge still only partially recovered is surprising in its depth and sophistication. Ancient peoples found they could start making sense of the world and also transform it, accomplishing remarkable feats of engineering. No less remarkable is the progress made in thought and ideas.


Ancient Knowledge

In the 6th - 7th century B.C. the first steps were taken in applying logic and reason toward understanding the natural world and humanity itself.

The idea that the true nature of the world and man can be revealed through thought and contemplation alone is commonplace among early philosophies. Pythagoras and others introduced the idea that nature is guided by and constructed out of the perfection of geometry and whole numbers. Aristotle marked a significant advance over many philosophies with his notion that nature can be understood by observation using the human senses.


In Ancient Greece the philosopher Socrates proposed a starting point for all thinking:

"The only thing I know is that I know nothing."

- this was in stark contrast to most people who felt they 'knew' everything or at least a lot of things with absolute certainty.

During the Renaissance the French mathematician and philosopher Rene Descartes made a similar statement:

"I think, therefore I am" 'Cogito ergo sum'

- based on his idea that the only thing that cannot be doubted is doubt itself. The next logical conclusion is that the doubter exists.


Thales (640 - 550 B.C.)- "Father of Greek Philosophy" He found that rubbing amber caused it to attract light objects ( static electricity ) The word electricity comes from elektron - the Greek word for amber.

Around 550 B.C. Anaximander of Miletus draws first known map of the world (the part known to the Ionians at this time.) He places the map on a cylinder to represent the curvature of the Earth.

Pythagoras (582 - 507 B.C.) - mathematics and geometry, Greek philosopher and mathematician.

Alcmaeon of Croton (around 500 B.C.), a pupil of Pythagoras, studied the human sense organs and did at least some surgical procedures on the eye.

Empedocles and Anaxagoras (500 - 428 B.C.) plus others discovered the cause of eclipses and could predict them accurately. Meton around 433 B.C. devised a 19 year calendar that related the lunar months to the solar year.

Democritus (460 - 370 B.C.) argued that all matter is composed of atoms (small indivisible particles) - substances are different due to different kinds of atoms.

Hippocrates of Cos (469 - 399 B.C.) - Father of Medicine emphasized direct and practical treatment of illness. Sickness is a natural result of imbalances in diet and conduct of life not of divine origin. He observes that a man involved in lead mining has developed abdominal cramps. Reason and experience were properly the main tools of a doctor in treating the sick not speculative ideas and notions.

Aristotle (384 - 322 B.C.) - philosophy


The Round Earth
The notion that the Earth is round (spherical) existed well before the Renaissance. When Eratosthenes, a scholar in Egypt during Hellenistic times, learned that a shaft of sunlight penetrated to the bottom of a well in Syrene on the summer solstice, he deduced that he could use the information to measure the circumference of the Earth. Around the same time, another Egyptian scholar, Aristarchus of Samos, was trying to figure out how far the moon and sun are from the Earth. In the process, he deduced that the moon orbits the Earth, and the Earth orbits the sun. His insight came a millennium and a half before Copernicus, however, it was not appreciated at the time or widely published.


Writing
Cuneiform script
Writing cuneiform script involves using the end of a hollow reed stem or stylus to make wedge shaped marks on clay tablets (wet cakes of clay.) When the tablets dry they become hard and durable, many examples survive to this day. Cuneus is Latin for wedge.

When Sargon of Akkad ascended to power in 2300 B.C.E. the Akkadian language began to be written in cuneifom too, Assyrian and Babylonian are dialects of Akkadian.

The earliest writings by the Egyptians were on stone but papyrus (a type of paper made by mashing reeds together) has been found from 2600 B.C.E.

Aramaic alphabetic script
After the conquests of Alexander the Great the use of cuneiform declined in favor of the much more convienant Aramaic alphabetic script. The last texts in cuneiform are dated around 75 A.D.


Measurement
2500 B.C. standard weights developed by the Sumerians and used in trading are the "shekel" of 0.29 oz (8.36 grams) and the "mina" which is 60 times heavier.

2100 B.C. the oldest preserved standard of length is the foot of the statue of Lagash, ruler of Gudea. It is divided into sixteen parts and is 10.41 inches long (26.45 cm.)

2000 B.C. Besides the "shekel" and the "mina" the Sumerians have units of volume: the "log" (33 cubic inches or 541 mL) and the "homer", equal to 720 logs. The cubit and the foot are units of length, with the foot being two-thirds the length of a cubit.

Ancient Civilizations

Name Approximate dates Location Major cities
Sumerian 3200-2360 B.C.E. Mesopotamia Ur, Nippur
Indus Valley 3000-1500 B.C.E. Pakistan,
Northwestern India —
Minoan 3000-1100 B.C.E. Crete Knossos
Egyptian 2850-715 B.C.E. Nile valley Thebes, Memphis,
Tanis
Akkadian 2350-2230 B.C.E. Mesopotamia, parts of
Syria, Asia Minor,
Iran Akkad, Ur, Erich
Assyrian 1800-889 B.C.E. Mesopotamia, Syria Assur, Nineveh,
Calah
Babylonian 1728-1686 B.C.E. (old)
625-539 B.C.E. (new) Mesopotamia, Syria,
Palestine Babylon
Hittite 1640-1200 B.C.E. Asia Minor, Syria Hattusas, Nesa
Phoenician 1100-332 B.C.E. Palestine (colonies:
Gibraltar, Carthage,
Sardinia) Tyre, Sidon, Byblos
Phrygian 1000-547 B.C.E. Central Asia Minor Gordion
Etruscan 900-396 B.C.E. Northern Italy —
Greek 900-200 B.C.E. Greece Athens, Sparta,
Thebes, Mycenae,
Corinth
Mede 835-550 B.C.E. Iran Media
Scythian 800-300 B.C.E. Caucasus —
Cimmerian 750-500 B.C.E. Caucasus, northern Asia
Minor —
Lydian 700-547 B.C.E. Western Asia Minor Sardis, Miletus
Persian 559-330 B.C.E. Iran, Asia Minor, Syria Persepolis,
Pasargadae
Roman 500 B.C.E.-C.E. 300 Italy, Mediterranean
region, Asia Minor,
western Europe Rome, Byzantium


The Library at Alexandria


Ptolemy I (Ptolemaios Soter) is persuaded by Demetrios Phalereus in 307 B.C. to collect copies of all known books to be placed in Alexandria in an institution known as the Library.

This repository and university of knowledge flourished for many centuries eventually amassing over 750,000 scrolls and papers on a wide range of subjects. Here, at one place, was the sum knowledge of the Ancient world.

Unfortunately in a series of wars and struggles that swept through the Mediterranean the great library and its contents were destroyed. What is clear is that most of the facts and discoveries in the Library at Alexandria would not be re-discovered for nearly another millenium.


Euclid (300 B.C.) - mathematican - invented foundation of a complete geometry


Archimedes (287-212 B.C.E.) - Greek physicist and mathematician

Greek physicist and mathematician

Archimedes' Principle water displacement. hydrostatics and mechanics. Lever and compound pulley. Born in Syracuse around 235 BC he said, concerning levers
"Give me a place to stand, and I will move the Earth."


Invention and Discovery
Hero (Heron) of Alexandria - 1st century AD built the first steam engine. Called the aeolipile the device was a hollow sphere with vents on opposite sides. Steam pumped into the sphere caused the sphere to spin rapidly. There was no practical use made of this very primitive steam engine.

China

paper and publishing
704 AD oldest surviving piece of printing is a charm scroll from China.
By the 10th century AD publishing exploded in China.


compass - magnetic lodestone
mechanical clock
inoculation against disease
suspension bridge
umbrella
fishing pole


Chinese alchemists researching substances for extending life discovered gunpowder. Referred to in 9th century AD texts. Gunpowder was the only explosive known for more than 500 yrs. Rudimentary guns were developed but not perfected. The Chinese army was equipped with gunpowder weapons in the 11th century. But gunpowder was used mostly for enjoyment as fireworks.

Arrows launched from a gun powder filled tube mounted on a stick could fly over 1000 yards. These were the first rocket weapons.

17 century onward Chinese technology declined and the Europeans ascended.

The Rebirth of Knowledge - The Renaissance
First recorded case of body snatching (grave robbing) for medical dissection is prosecuted in 1319. A 1240 decree of the Holy Roman Empire permits the dissection of human cadavers.


Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519)
master painter and artist
Mona Lisa and the Last Supper

inventor
parachute
helicopter
airplane and flight
submarine
evil nature of man who would practice assassination from the bottom of the seas.

tank
8 men to work it, to break through the ranks

machine gun
designed multi-barral cannon
hydrodynamics

civil engineering
psychology and anatomy

In his sketchbooks he could write backwards with his left hand while sketching with his right. He wrote his notes in "mirror fashion" reversed and backwards.

He described war as madness.

A bird is an instrument of flight obeying mathematical laws which man has the capacity to comprehend and master.

It wasn't until the late 1800s that his notebooks were carefully examined and his brilliance fully appreciated.


Johann Gutenberg (1396 - 1468) - The invention of movable type in printing starts an explosion of writing and publishing. By the end of the 15th century 35,000 different books have been published with 20 million copies made, almost half the books concern religion. 77% of all books are in Latin. 20 million books were made within 50 years of the invention of the printing press, within 100 years ten times that number of books (200 million) were available.

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People

Thales Of Miletus

6th century BC philosopher remembered for his cosmology based on water as the essence of all matter. According to the Greek thinker Apollodorus, he was born in 624; the Greek historian Diogenes Laërtius placed his death in the 58th Olympiad (548-545) at the age of 78.

Anaximander

b. 610 BC, Miletus [now in Turkey] d. 546/545 BC

Greek philosopher who proposed an origin of the universe without reference to supernatural forces thus establishing natural philosophy as a discipline separate from religion. Often called the founder of astronomy, the first thinker to develop a cosmology, or systematic philosophical view of the world.

Pythagoras

b. c. 580 BC,, Samos, Ionia d. c. 500,, Metapontum, Lucania

Parmenides

b. c. 515 BC

Understanding nature must come reason rather than experience.

Anaxagoras

b. c. 500 BC,, Clazomenae, Anatolia [now in Turkey] d. c. 428,, Lampsacus

Brings Ionian philosophy to Athens. Discovers the true cause of solar eclipses and believes that there is an infinite number of elements.

Zeno Of Elea - greek philosopher and mathematician

(c. 495 BC-c. 430 BC)

Known best for his paradoxes that contributed to the development of logical and mathematical rigor and that were insoluble until the development of precise concepts of continuity and infinity.

Empedocles

b. c. 490 BC,, Acragas, Sicily d. 430, the Peloponnese, Greece Greek philosopher, statesman, poet, religious teacher, and physiologist.

c. 450 BC - Asserts that all matter in the universe is made of different proportions of earth, air, fire, and water. Also brought forth the idea of four bodily humours: blood; phlegm; choler, or yellow bile; and melancholy, or black bile. Health could only be maintained through maintaining a balance between these humours.

c. 431 BC - Greek medical teachings are brought together into the Hippocratic corpus, establishing ethical standards of medical practice.

Hippocrates b. c. 460 BC,, island of Cos, Greece d. c. 377,, Larissa, Thessaly

c. 400 BC - Brahmanic hospitals are set up in Sri Lanka

367 BC - Aristotle begins his studies at Plato's Academy. Aristotle's prodigious writings on astronomy, biology and many other fields virtually dominate western and Islamic thinking until the 17th century.

Eudoxus Of Cnidus Astronomer and mathematician

b. c. 400,, Cnidus, Asia Minor [now in Turkey] d. c. 350 BC,, Cnidus

c. 360 BC - Expounds a system of geocentric, homocentric spheres to account for irregularities in planetary motion

c. 350 BC. Aristotle's work on zoology and biology lays the foundation for physiological thought for over 2,000 years with the heart as the primary organ.

Theophrastus

b. c. 372 BC,, Eresus, Lesbos d. c. 287

Succeeds Aristotle as head of the Lyceum. Carries on Aristotle's ideas especially in biology and botany. These views heavily influence life sciences until the Renaissance.

Euclid

Elements - the defining book on geometry for over 2,000 years. taught at and founded a school at Alexandria in the time of Ptolemy I Soter, who reigned from 323 to 285/283 BC.

Herophilus

b. c. 335 BC,, Chalcedon, Bithynia d. c. 280

Alexandrian physician performs dissection of cadavers and details first anatomical accurate descriptions of the eye, brain and various other organs.

Aristarchus Of Samos

(c. 310-230 BC)

Constructs geometric model for determining the relative distances to the Sun and moon. Advances first known heliocentric view of the solar system.

Erasistratus Of Ceos

c. 250 BC Greek anatomist and physician in Alexandria, regarded by some as the founder of physiology. Studies the anatomy of the brain, veins, and arteries. Describes the bicuspid and tricuspid valves of the heart.

Eratosthenes Of Cyrene

b. c. 276 BC, Cyrene, Libya d. c. 194, Alexandria, Egypt

Greek scientific writer, astronomer, and poet, the first man known to have calculated the Earth's circumference. Director of the great library of Alexandria.


Events

2700 BC the first pyramids are constructed in Egypt
2700 BC legendary Chinese emperor Shen Nung invents acupuncture.
2575 BC work begins on the great pyramids at Giza.
2300 BC legendary Chinese emperor Fu Hsi creates dualistic cosmic theory of yin and yang.
1790 BC In the Babylonian Empire the Code of Hammurabi sets fees for medical practice and punishments for malpractice.
1600 BC the Minoan civilization is at its peak, both culturally and in terms of technology. Conveniences at the palace at Knossos include bathrooms and running water.
1500 BC Water clocks are in use in Egypt. Simple water clocks, or clepsydras, are in use throughout the ancient world.
1200 BC paved roads in use in Near Eastern cities
1100 BC Phoenician dominance of the Mediterranean Sea begins extending to at least 800 BC Oars replace paddles in the very efficient Phoenician ships.


Edwin Smith papyrus - 1600 BC - written account of Egyptian medical practices from diagnosis, to a range of therapeutic measures including surgery.

Ebers papyrus - 1500 BC - Egyptian medical text on internal diseases, diseases of the eye, skin and extremities


Ideas

Greek schools of Philosophy: Eleaticism
Ionian school
Pythagoreanism
Sophist


Ionian school - school of Greek philosophers of the 6th to 5th century BC, including Thales, Anaximander, Anaximenes, Heracleitus, Anaxagoras, Diogenes of Apollonia, Archelaus, and Hippon. Although Ionia was the original centre of their activity, they differed so greatly from one another in their conclusions that they cannot be said to have represented a specific school of philosophy. Their common concern to explain phenomena in terms of matter or physical forces, however, distinguished them from later thinkers.


Pythagoreanism - a school of philosophy that believes reality has a mathematical nature and imbues certain numbers with mystical power.






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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:27:11 pm
Helios

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Member # 2019

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   posted 08-06-2004 02:53 AM                       
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http://www.robsacc.nl/ottens/antiquity.html 


quote:
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Where lies the source of our civilization? There are many theories, some based upon scientific research, others on mere fantasy, but what do we really know? In the past decades, everywhere around the globe, new theories arised, which were radically different from the established assumptions. Perhaps we do not originate from primitive primates, but from an unknown advanced civilization, which existed long ago on Earth, but had been completely forgotten long before history begun...
Thousands of years before Egyptian civilization flourished along the Nile, the Sumerians lived in what later would be known as Babylonia. Their knowledge reached beyond that of later, ancient civilizations. A man named Zecharia Sitchin was the first to translate Sumerian clay tablets left behind by them. His work was the first step into what we know today about the Sumerians.

Nine thousand years ago, the Sumerians were able to draw the solar system with the exact orbits and sizes of the planets we know today. Where modern science only discovered the planet of Pluto in 1930, the Sumerians knew of the planet's existence thousands of years ago. However, the clay tablets show an other planet, beyond Pluto, comparable in size with Saturn.

The Sumerians know it as Nibiru, a planet which circles around the sun in 3,600 Earth-years. The number 3,600 was written as a large cicle in Sumerian. The epithet for the planet, shar, also means a perfect circle or a completed cycle. The reign periods a Sumerian text gives are also perfect multiples of the 3,600 year shar. The conclusion that suggests itself is that these shar's ruler ship were related to the orbital period shar.

Recent advances in DNA-research have established that there was an Eve who lived about 250 to 270 thousand years ago: a first mother from who all modern humans stem, no matter what their racial heritage. See the image on the right-top of this page: the two entwined snake-like creatures and the ladder like ribbons between the serpents bodies. The discovery by modern science of the double helix structure of DNA offers the answer to what this image represents: the entwined serpents (still the symbol of medicine today) emulated the structure of the genetic code, the secret knowledge of which enabled the creation of man; the first man the Annuaki (the people from Nibiru, according to the Sumerians) created, called the Adam. Images of comparable creatures return on several clay tablets and wall paintings.


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Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:27:45 pm
Chronos

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   posted 08-06-2004 01:17 PM                       
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I'd be happy to discuss the Sumerians with you, Helios, as I feel they, too, have much to offer and don't appear to have been discussed previously. Perhaps, after we've finished with this thread..?
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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:28:09 pm
via mars 2
Member
Member # 1970

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   posted 08-06-2004 06:45 PM                       
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rock - in case it wasn't mentioned after you asked, yes, there was an ancient library of sorts in the north. i believe in glasgow? i've read of it in other articles about ancient scotland and clan rivalries, etc. (it's on the tip of my tongue ... but, i've been working late)
i'm sure someone else will mention it, for it's very interesting.
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Posts: 2297 | From: arlington, va. | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:28:35 pm
Proteus

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   posted 08-08-2004 09:40 PM                       
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Here is an interesting link to the Vatican library. One page has pictures of the Latin pages of Timaeus.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/vatican/vatican.html
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Posts: 180 | From: Indiana | Registered: Aug 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:29:20 pm
dhill757

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   posted 08-09-2004 12:20 AM                       
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A list of ancient libraries: http://www.innvista.com/society/education/info/anclib.htm
Ancient Libraries

This is a list of ancient libraries, and a few early medieval ones, with information as available about each. They are classified according to region of the world. There are many more, but the information on them is not currently available for this site. The buildings of all of those listed (and the contents of some) have been destroyed by natural disaster, by invading armies, or by order of religious leaders. However, there have been remains of many found by archaeologists.

Americas

Mexico

* Mani (Yucatán)
About 100,000 Maya texts were ordered by Bishop Diego de Landa to be burned. They contained hundreds or thousands of years of written records. The information included genealogies, biographies, collections of songs, science books, history, prophecy, astrology, and ritual.
* Tenochtitlán
In 1528, the first archbishop of Mexico, Don Juan de Zumárraga, ordered every book, codex, and hieroglyph -- numbering about 700,000 -- to be burned.
* Texcoco
Libraries, including some with vast information on medicinal plants, and books found elsewhere were ordered by the Spanish to be burned.
* Surviving Ancient Books
a. Dresden Codex
It pertains mainly to the Maya cycles of time. It also includes descriptions of solar eclipses, stories of Quetzalcoatl, and Maya ceremonies.
b. Grolier Codex
It contains information on scientific and religious matters.
c. Madrid Codex
It contains a 70-page document and a 42-page document on scientific and religious matters.
d. Mendoza Codex
It is one of the oldest of ancient Mexico, covering the history of the Mixtec people from 692 CE. It is written on deerskin in book form and unfolds like an accordion. The writing contains pictographic, ideographic and rebus forms.
e. Paris Codex
It is an 11-page document containing an account of Maya history.
f. Popul Vuh
It is the prime source for the Maya cosmology, setting out the concept of the cycle of the Suns. This is not original book, but one written from memory.
g. Tro-Coretesianus Codex
It is a Maya codex in two parts and is an astrological work that was used by priests.

Africa

Carthage

* Thamugadi
Funds to build this library were provided by Quintianus Rogatianus. The plan was a square, with a forecourt surrounded by white limestone columns. In the walls were niches for cases that held rolls. Rooms on each side served as reading-rooms. The building was able to hold about 23,000 rolls. This was the only library in the Roman Empire west of Italy.
Egypt

* Abu Simbel Temple
Scribes were assigned as the keepers of the books in the library. The library consisted of theological works, technical writings, literature, history annals, and practical texts. Other temple libraries were similar to this one.
* Alexandria
The most famous library in antiquity was created some time after 297 BCE as part of a school or museum by Ptolemy II (Philadelphus). The staff was made up of scholars in various fields.They did research, editing of works of previous writers, and carried on experiments. Known as the Brucheion Library, it had copies of all known books in the city. Agents were sent throughout the known world to acquire other texts. Ships entering the harbour were forced to lend books aboard to be copied. According to tradition, seventy Hebrews translated the Scriptures into the Greek Septuagint here. Many outstanding figures served as head librarians or were associated with the library. The collection, estimated to be over 700,000 rolls, was classified by Callimachus. Alexandria was burned by Ptolemy VIII (Cacergetes) in a civil war in 89-88 BCE, causing many scholars to leave. The library was reconstituted, but it was never as great. It was again partly destroyed in 47 BCE. Later, 200,000 rolls taken from Pergamum were added. Some rolls were taken from Alexandria to Rome in the Christian era. Alexandria was burned in 273 CE by Roman Emperor Aurelian. More damage was done by Christian bishop Theophilus in 391 CE. Whatever was left was destroyed by Moslem conqueror Omar in 645 CE. A replacement for this famous library was finally opened in 2001.
* Edfu
It was known as the House of Papyrus. Over the entrance was a large carved palette. On the walls of the interior, there were texts and emblems of the instruments used by the scribes. A catalogue, in two parts, of hieratical books was graven on one wall. The first specified twelve coffers of works. The second specified twenty-two coffers. No remains of papyrus or parchment have been found.
* Heliopolis
In the Hall of Rolls of a temple was an early medical library, which contained long works with lists of diseases and cures.
* Hermopolis
In the temple of Thoth one of the largest papyri collections on medicine was found. There were six intact, plus fragments of many others. A scribe-priest was known as the keeper of the sacred books. His assistant, a woman, was known as the lady of letters, mistress of the house of books. There was also a medical school at the temple.
* Tell-El-Amarna
The Place of the Records of the palace of the King, the library of King Amenhotep IV, existed about 1350 BCE. The contents were clay tablets in Babylonian cuneiform. They were mainly correspondence between the king and vassal states and foreign rulers in Asia Minor. Within these letters is much social and economic information. Works that may have been written on media other than tablets have not survived.
* Thebes
The House of Writings, the collection of King Khufu, existed about 2600 BCE. There is no information available on this library.
* Thebes
The Healing Place of the Soul, the palace collection of King Ramesses II, existed about 1300 BCE. It contained about 20,000 rolls and was probably a religious or philosophic library. Amen-en-haut was one of the librarians.
Mauritania

* Chinguetti
This existing collection contains centuries-old manuscripts, among the oldest in Islam. These are documents of the village when it was a flourishing city along the ancient caravan route. They are being protected by today's villagers.

Asia

Armenia

* Edessa
This was a consolidation of the libraries of the temples at Nisibis and Sinope. The books were in Greek and Syriac.
Asia Minor

* Ephesus
The Library of Celsus was set up by the governor, Tiberius Julius Aquila Polemaeanus, who left money to purchase and to maintain the books. This was a donation to the city and a memorial to his father. It was completed by his heirs.
* Halicarnassus
It contained mostly Greek works, including those of Euripedes, Herodutus, Homer, and Longianus. It was open to the public so that young people could learn.
* Hattusas
This library was in operation from the 17th century BCE to the 13th century BCE. The mass of tablets from a royal palace was created by an unknown monarch. The tablets dealt with governmental activity, prosaic handbooks, Hittite renderings of Sumerian and Babylonian epics, religion, myths, legends, and historical annals. There were also detailed bibliographic entries and information on shelving.
* Pergamum
This library was founded by Attalus I about 200 BCE and lasted for several hundred years. It was located next to the temple of Athena. A listing of the holdings was drawn up. His son Eumenes II brought it to its peak. He strove to have the library to be equal to the one at Alexandria. This caused the Egyptians to halt the export of papyrus to Pergamium. As a result, the librarians developed a new form of parchment as a replacement. Eventually, the library declined and suffered loss of rolls to the Romans. These may have been returned by Augustus. Later, some volumes were taken to Samarkand.
* Rhodiapolis
This library contained mostly works in Greek. Included were those of a local physician, who was considered to be the Homer of medical poetry.
Assyria

* Ashur
This library, created by Tiglath-Pileser I, operated between 1115 BCE and 1077 BCE. This king was probably the first founder of a library. Some of the tablets were literary, but most of the writings were professional for use by scribes and priests. The greatest number dealt with omens determined by astrology, sacrificial animals, and natural events. The next largest group were the standardized handbooks of vocabulary lists, plants, trees, animals, gods, place names, multiplication tables, and astronomy. There were also some hymns and musical compositions.
* Dura
A unique set of parchments and papyri were found. They contained literary and religious texts, official and business documents, and military archives. They were written in Aramaic, Pahlavi, Greek, and Latin.
* Kalakh
This library existed in the 7th and 8th centuries B.C.E. The books included the reignal year of the king, and the month and the day that they were written. The catalogue entry includes the title of the work, the number of lines, the contents, and the opening words. There appears to have been some sort of classification of tyhe books.
* Nineveh, Assyria
One of the greatest libraries in the ancient world was a private collection of King Ashurbanipal and in use in the period from 1115 BCE to 1077 BCE. It contained about 1,500 titles, many of which were in multiple copies. The largest number of them were in technical literature of religion and magic. The next largest number was in scholarly texts, containing lists of cuneiform signs, words and names, and dictionaries for translating from Sumerian into Akkadian. There were such literary works as The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Epic of Creation, The Myth of Atrachasis, and The Epic of Irra. Tablets were taken from the temples of Babylon, from the library in Ashur, and from private collections to add to this library. Also, there were about 300 wooden boards containing written works. Theft of the holdings was a threat that caused security measures to be imposed. There were borrowing privileges with some of the collections of the day, particularly for specific professions.
Bithnya

* Heraclea
In about 365 BCE, the ruler Clearchus opened a library to the public.
China

* Hopei
This was a Buddhist Grotto Library. The texts were carved on stone, and are well preserved. Confuscian and Taoist works are included, but Buddhist scriptures constitute the largest collection.
* Loyang
Lao-tse, according to tradition, was the keeper of the imperial library located here. This was the most famous library in ancient China. It was built up during the Chou dynasty. However, during the succeeding dynasty, all books, except a few topics, were publicly burned.
* Tun Huang
This is a cave library containing a collection of 15,000 rolls and a few books. The writing, some dating at 400 CE, was on paper, which was well preserved. An early printed work in roll form is dated May 11, 868, CE.
Cyprus

* Citium
Writing was with red and black ink on marble tablets. One tablet contained a record of payments.
India

* Taxila
It is the oldest known library in India. It flourished more than one thousand years, up to the middle of the 5th century CE. It was located in a university centre.
Israel

* Caesarea
This was a Christian library founded by Origen in the 3rd century CE. It was passed on to Pamphilus. It survived the burning of the Christian libraries by Emperor Diocletian in 303 CE. This library was used by Eusebius in 30 CE and by Jerome in the 4th century CE. It survived until Palestine was captured by the Persians in 614 CE, when all Christian records were destroyed.
* Jerusalem
The books of the Law, the writings of Moses and the prophets, the book of Joshua, and sermons and exhortations of the prophets were preserved in the Hebrew temple. Most of the library was destroyed during the Babylonian captivity. However, much of it was restored by Nehemiah and Ezra after the return of the Israelites. Again, much of it was lost when Antiochus destroyed Jerusalem. It may have been re-established by Judas Maccabeus. There are several references to the collections in the Old Testament of the Bible.
* Khirbet Qumran
Remnants of more than 600 rolls of papyrus and thin sheet copper were found in several caves. This collection is known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Included on the rolls are some books of the Old Testament of the Bible, a collection of hymns, a manual of discipline, and other religious works. Apparently, there was a type of master library maintained with a scriptorium. These are works of an Essene group, dating to about 125 BCE to 70 CE.
* Lachish
Lachish letters were found on eighteen inscribed potsherds. Also found was a clay seal having the marks of papyrus fibres.
* Taanach
It was operating in 1400 BCE. In one room was found a book-chest made of baked clay, which contained tablets in the Babylonian language.
* Types of Libraries in Israel
a. central library at Jerusalem
b. temple libraries
c. local public libraries, including a special Greek public library
d. synagogue libraries, the most used
e. monastic libraries of the Essenes
Korea

* Kyongu
The oldest known printed text, found here, was printed between 704 CE and 751 CE. It is a scroll which is twenty feet long. The printing was done with twelve wooden blocks. The paper scroll was made from fibres of the paper-mulberry tree. The scroll was located in the Pulguksa Temple.
Media

* Istakhr
It was called Diz-i-Nipisht. It held the original Avesta, the sacred book of the Zoroastrians.Mesopotamia

* Erach
This library in the Red Temple existed about 3000 BCE. It contained clay tablets in pictographic script.
* Nimrud
One room of this library contained treaties by an Assyrian king with neighbouring princes. One wing had records, including tablets concerning taxation and trade, and agriculture and administrative reports.
* Nippur
This library existed in the mid 3rd millenium BCE. An excavation uncovered a group of tablets dealing with the following: geographical names, a list of gods, a list of professions, a list of Sumerian works of literature, writing exercises, and a number of hymns. The owner of the collection is not known.
* Tello
This library existed about 2350 BCE. It is a collection of about 30,000 tablets in cuneiform.
* Ur
A Great House of Tablets, a building housing records, existed about 2100 BCE. It contained a well-organized law library or legal archive. One set of tablets contained a code of laws 300 years before Hammurabi. There were also the records of a national court for over a century.
Phoenicia

* Sidon
It was so capably kept that it became a byword. The historical writings were of great exactness and were preserved in archives. The library was readily accessible and open to the public.
* Tyre
The library had authentic records that were preserved in archives. Like the one at Sidon, it was readily accessible and open to the public.
Persia

* Nisibis
About 485 CE, the Nestorian Christians who fled from Syria built this library. It was a good source of Greek science and philosophy. Scholars from Greece were attracted here. By 750 CE, the Moslems, seeing the value of this library, translated many of the books into Arabic.
Syria

* Damascus
A royal library was established in the late 7th century CE under the Umayyid dynasty. In 690 CE, the archives were separated from the literary and religious works and placed into a House of Archives. The palace library was open for use by students and scholars. In it were copies of books obtained from all parts of the known world. They included works on alchemy, medicine, astrology, literature, history, philosophy, and the Moslem religion.
* Ebla
It is dated to 2300 BCE to 2250 BCE. A collection of about 2,000 clay tablets was found in an archive room in a buried royal palace. They contained the following: administrative records dealing with the distribution of textiles and metals; cereals, olive oil, agricultural land, and breeding of animals; names of professions, geographical locations, birds, and fish; incantations; and the text of a Sumerian myth. The writing on the tablets was in Sumerian and Eblaite.
* Palmyra
There were hundreds of inscriptions, dealing with fixed tariffs, Queen Zenobia, the priesthood, and wine consumption.
* Ugarit
A library in the royal palace of King Nigmed existed about the 13th century BCE. The clay tablets included diplomatic correspondence, treaties, laws, some history, some commercial texts, and a dictionary of Ugartic and Sumerian. Also at the same time was one in the home of the high priest. It was mainly theological; but there were also some epic poetyry, magic lore, history, scientific dictionaries (unilingual and bilingual). There were also genealogical lists of kings and priests.
Turkey

* Boghaz Kui
It contained over 10,000 clay tablets in two sections. One set was on black and grey clay. The other was on yellow and brown clay.
* Debir
The community was known as "booktown." The library held Hittite books.

Europe

Byzantium

* Constantinople
The imperial library was established by Emperor Constantine between 330 CE and 336 CE. He sent agents throughout the Roman Empire to search for Christian books for it. His collection included many writings of Greek and Latin secular authors. There were only about 7,000 books at the time of his death.
* Constantinople
The library of the Academy, a school of philosophy, was founded by Theodosius II in the 5th century CE. In the early 8th century CE, books containing religious pictures were sometimes destroyed as they were considered as heathen by the iconoclasts. The library flourished until the end of that century.
Greece

* Athens
There is some uncertainty about the accuracy of this one, which is said to have existed about 560 BCE. A collection was given to the city by the tyrant Pisistratus. The city opened it to the public and added to it and took care of it. It is reported to have been taken by Xerxes to Persia when he conquered by Athens. When King Seleucus conquered Persia, he returned the books to Athens.
* Athens
Plato was one of the first Greeks to own a library. Part of it was composed of a purchase of the library of Philolaus of Tarentum. Another part was obtained in Syracuse.
* Athens
Late in the 4th century BCE, Aristotle owned a library at his Peripatetic school. It included several hundred volumes, large for the time, that had been acquired by purchase and by gift. It contained his own writings and was well-rounded in the subject areas. He made it available to his pupils and friends.
* Athens
In this library of the 4th century BCE were official copies of plays of Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripedes. These were to ensure that only authentic versions of the plays were produced. The books could be read and copied, but they could not be removed.
* Athens
This library was located in the Ptolemain secondary school. Students presented one hundred books to the school annually as a graduation gift.
* Athens
A library was established by Emperor Hadrian in the early 2nd century BCE. The library was a square enclosed by a colonnade of 120 columns. There were spacious rooms of alabaster and gold, filled with paintings and statuary.There were rooms for reading and lectures. There was, also, a central area from which books may have been delivered to readers. Nothing is known about the types of books in the library.
* Cos
In the period of about 200-175 B.C.E., well-to-do citizens subscribed to the **** of a library building. They contributed to a book-purchase fund or they donated books.
* Rhodes
This library existed during the 2nd and 1st centuries B.C.E., possibly at the university. There was a subject catalogue that was arranged alphabetically.
Italy

* Como
It was established in the late 1st century B.C.E. by Pliny the Younger in this, his home town. He endowed it with a million sesterces (the common unit of computation of Roman money).
* Herculaneum
This was the private library of L. Calpurnius Piso, a collection of about 3,000 rolls, encased in wooden boxes. The majority of the rolls were philosophic works of the Sophis school. There were some works of medicine, literary criticism, and general literature. Most of them were in Greek, but there were some in Latin. The library was destroyed by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius.
* Rome and Atrium
This collection of Cicero was maintained both in the city and in country villas. A specialist was used in setting up the libraries. Highly trained Greek slaves served as library personel. Copying was a major work, but reshelving, repairing, and keeping the catalogue up-to-date were functions that they performed. Parchment was used to place the author's name on the end of each roll. There was also the problem of theft that had to be handled. This library was used primarily by researchers.
* Rome
This private collection of Lucullus existed after 66 BCE. It was collected in Asia Minor as booty. The layout of the building was based on the library at Pergamum. In a room about three meters by three meters, the walls were lined with shelves with rolls piled high. The books were in Greek; but later, some in Latin were added. The library was open to friends and relatives of Lucullus, but also to Greeks living in Rome. Patrons from Greek states in Asia Minor came to use the library.
* Rome
The first-known public library, the Atrium Libertatis, located on the Aventine Hill, was opened about 37 BCE. The founder was G. Asinius Pollio, who, with his own wealth, consolidated several collections and reorganized the public archives there. The interior was adorned with the busts of the great writers. The collection was made up of Greek and Latin literature.
* Rome
Emperor Augustus built this library during the period of 36 BCE and 28 BCE, locating it in the temple of Apollo, on the Palatine Hill. It was divided into Greek and Latin sections. The first librarian was Pompeius Macer, and a later librarian was Julius Hyginus. The library was enlarged by Emperors Tiberius and Caligula. Although damaged by fire twice, it lasted into the 4th century CE.
* Rome
There was a library located in the Porticus Octaviae, which was believed to have been founded by Octavia, sister of Augustus. The first librarian was Caius Melissus. The library was damaged by fire about 80 CE, but it survived into the 2nd century CE.
* Rome
Emperor Vespasian established a library in 76 CE. It included books taken from Jerusalem when that city was captured by the Romans. According to Josephus, the Jewish historian, it contained copies of the books of Moses. The library was damaged by fire about 190 CE, but it was restored and lasted into the 4th century CE.
* Rome
The Ulpian Library, the greatest of the Roman libraries, was founded in 114 CE by Emperor Trajan. It may have been based on the private library of Epaphrodites of Cherones. The collection included about 20,000 rolls, which was divided into Greek and Latin sections. Early in the 4th century BCE, it was moved to the Baths of Diocletian. However, it was later returned to its original site. It was still in existence in 455 CE.
* Rome
A library was begun at the Baths of Caracalla in 212 CE and completed ten or more years later. There were two rectangular chambers set into the enclosure wall, opening at the front to the colonnade. Along the short walls were niches for bookcases.
* Rome
In the latter half of the 4th century CE, Pope Damasus I established a library in the church of San Lorenzo. At first, it was only an archive. Later, this was transferred to the lateran Palace. Eventually, the library included not only Bibles but also various Christian theologcal writings. It did not include non-Christian writings for a long time because of the official attitude toward those.
* Squillace
In the mid 6th century, Cassiodorus established a library at his monastery, Vivarium. He purchased books for it in northern Africa. Included in his library were works of major pagan Greek and Latin writers. His scriptorium produced many copies of Christian writings.
Spain

* Granada
About 1510, all Arabic manuscripts ordered by Cardinal Ximenes were ordered to be burned.


[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 08-09-2004).]


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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2008, 01:30:35 pm
rockessence

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dhill,
A prodigious list, but nothing on Scotland, unless I missed it....
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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:08:20 pm
Absonite

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  posted 08-09-2004 05:55 AM                       
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Taking this fine list of libraries a step further.....

4. The faculty on dissemination and conservation of knowledge. This group organized and directed the purely educational endeavors of those early ages. It was presided over by Fad. The educational methods of Fad consisted in supervision of employment accompanied by instruction in improved methods of labor. Fad formulated the first alphabet and introduced a writing system. This alphabet contained twenty-five characters. For writing material these early peoples utilized tree barks, clay tablets, stone slabs, a form of parchment made of hammered hides, and a crude form of paperlike material made from wasps' nests. The Dalamatia library, destroyed soon after the Caligastia disaffection, comprised more than two million separate records and was known as the "house of Fad."

The blue man (Cro-Magnon) was partial to alphabet writing and made the greatest progress along such lines. The red man preferred pictorial writing, while the yellow races drifted into the use of symbols for words and ideas, much like those they now employ. But the alphabet and much more was subsequently lost to the world.
(The headquarters of the Planetary Prince was situated in the Persian Gulf region of those days, in the district corresponding to later Mesopotamia.)
*************************
************************
5. THE CUSTODIANS OF KNOWLEDGE


The superaphic custodians of knowledge are the higher "living epistles" known and read by all who dwell on Paradise. They are the divine records of truth, the living books of real knowledge. You have heard about records in the "book of life." The custodians of knowledge are just such living books, records of perfection imprinted upon the eternal tablets of divine life and supreme
surety. They are in reality living, automatic libraries. The facts of the universes are inherent in these primary supernaphim, actually recorded in these angels; and it is also inherently impossible for an untruth to gain lodgment in the minds of these perfect and replete repositories of the truth of eternity and the intelligence of time.

These custodians conduct informal courses of instruction for the residents of the eternal Isle, but their chief function is that of reference and verification. Any sojourner on Paradise may at will have by his side the living repository of the particular fact or truth he may wish to know. At the northern extremity of the Isle there are available the living finders of knowledge, who will designate the director of the group holding the information sought, and forthwith will appear the brilliant beings who are the very thing you wish to know. No longer must you seek enlightenment from engrossed pages; you now commune with living intelligence face to face. Supreme knowledge you thus obtain from the living beings who are its final custodians.

When you locate that supernaphim who is exactly what you desire to verify, you will find available all the known facts of all universes, for these custodians of knowledge are the final and living summaries of the vast network of the recording angels, ranging from the seraphim and seconaphim of the local and superuniverses to the chief recorders of the tertiary supernaphim in Havona. And this living accumulation of knowledge is distinct from the formal records of Paradise, the cumulative summary of universal history.

The wisdom of truth takes origin in the divinity of the central universe, but knowledge, experiential knowledge, largely has its beginnings in the domains of time and space--therefore the necessity for the maintenance of the far-flung superuniverse organizations of the recording seraphim and supernaphim sponsored by the Celestial Recorders.

These primary supernaphim who are inherently in possession of universe knowledge are also responsible for its organization and classification. In constituting themselves the living reference library of the universe of universes, they have classified knowledge into seven grand orders, each having about one million subdivisions. The facility with which the residents of Paradise can consult this vast store of knowledge is solely due to the voluntary and wise efforts of the custodians of knowledge. The custodians are also the exalted teachers of the central universe, freely giving out their living treasures to all beings on any of the Havona circuits, and they are extensively, though indirectly, utilized by the courts of the Ancients of Days. But this living library, which is available to the central and superuniverses, is not accessible to the local creations. Only by indirection and reflectively are the benefits of Paradise knowledge secured in the local universes.
http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper27.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper27.html&line=89#mfs


5. THE CUSTODIANS OF RECORDS ON PARADISE


From among the tertiary supernaphim in Havona, certain of the senior chief recorders are chosen as Custodians of Records, as keepers of the formal archives of the Isle of Light, those archives which stand in contrast to the living records of registry in the minds of the custodians of knowledge, sometimes designated the "living library of Paradise."

The recording angels of the inhabited planets are the source of all individual records. Throughout the universes other recorders function regarding both formal records and living records. From Urantia to Paradise, both recordings are encountered: in a local universe, more of the written records and less of the living; on Paradise, more of the living and less of the formal; on Uversa, both are equally available.

Every occurrence of significance in the organized and inhabited creation is a matter of record. While events of no more than local importance find only a local recording, those of wider significance are dealt with accordingly. From the planets, systems, and constellations of Nebadon, everything of universe import is posted on Salvington; and from such universe capitals those episodes are advanced to higher recording which pertain to the affairs of the sector and supergovernments. Paradise also has a relevant summary of superuniverse and Havona data; and this historic and cumulative story of the universe of universes is in the custody of these exalted tertiary supernaphim.

While certain of these beings have been dispatched to the superuniverses to serve as Chiefs of Records directing the activities of the Celestial Recorders, not one has ever been transferred from the permanent roll call of their order.

6. THE CELESTIAL RECORDERS


These are the recorders who execute all records in duplicate, making an original spirit recording and a semimaterial counterpart--what might be called a carbon copy. This they can do because of their peculiar ability simultaneously to manipulate both spiritual and material energy. Celestial Recorders are not created as such; they are ascendant seraphim from the local universes. They are received, classified, and assigned to their spheres of work by the councils of the Chiefs of Records on the headquarters of the seven superuniverses. There also are located the schools for training Celestial Recorders. The school on Uversa is conducted by the Perfectors of Wisdom and the Divine Counselors.

As the recorders advance in universe service, they continue their system of dual recording, thus making their records always available to all classes of beings, from those of the material order to the high spirits of light. In your transition experience, as you ascend from this material world, you will always be able
to consult the records of, and to be otherwise conversant with, the history and traditions of your status sphere.

The recorders are a tested and tried corps. Never have I known of the defection of a Celestial Recorder, and never has there been discovered a falsification in their records. They are subjected to a dual inspection, their records being scrutinized by their exalted fellows from Uversa and by the Mighty Messengers, who certify to the correctness of the quasi-physical duplicates of the original spirit records.

While the advancing recorders stationed on the subordinate spheres of record in the Orvonton universes number trillions upon trillions, those of attained status on Uversa are not quite eight million in number. These senior or graduate recorders are the superuniverse custodians and forwarders of the sponsored records of time and space. Their permanent headquarters are in the circular abodes surrounding the area of records on Uversa. They never leave the custody of these records to others; as individuals they may be absent, but never in large numbers.

Like those supernaphim who have become Custodians of Records, the corps of Celestial Recorders is of permanent assignment. Once seraphim and supernaphim are mustered into these services, they will respectively remain Celestial Recorders and Custodians of Records until the day of the new and modified administration of the full personalization of God the Supreme.

On Uversa these senior Celestial Recorders can show the records of everything of cosmic import in all Orvonton since the far-distant times of the arrival of the Ancients of Days, while on the eternal Isle the Custodians of Records guard the archives of that realm which testify to the transactions of Paradise since the times of the personification of the Infinite Spirit.

http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper25.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper25.html&line=142#mfs


4. THE THOUGHT RECORDERS


These artisans are devoted to the preservation and reproduction of the superior thought of the realms, and they function in seven groups:

1. Thought preservers. These are the artisans dedicated to the preservation of the higher thought of the realms. On the morontia worlds they truly treasure the gems of mentation. Before first coming to Urantia, I saw records and heard broadcasts of the ideation of some of the great minds of this planet. Thought recorders preserve such noble ideas in the tongue of Uversa.

Each superuniverse has its own language, a tongue spoken by its personalities and prevailing throughout its sectors. This is known as the tongue of Uversa in our superuniverse. Each local universe also has its own language. All of the higher orders of Nebadon are bilingual, speaking both the language of Nebadon and the tongue of Uversa. When two individuals from different local universes meet, they communicate in the tongue of Uversa; if, however, one of them hails from another superuniverse, they must have recourse to a translator. In the central universe there is little need of a language; there exists perfect and well-nigh complete understanding; there, only the Gods are not fully comprehended. We are taught that a chance meeting on Paradise reveals more of mutual understanding than could be communicated by a mortal language in a thousand years. Even on Salvington we "know as we are known."

The ability to translate thought into language in the morontia and spirit spheres is beyond mortal comprehension. Our rate of reducing thought to a permanent record can be so speeded up by the expert recorders that the equivalent of over half a million words, or thought symbols, can be registered in one minute of Urantia time. These universe languages are far more replete than the speech of the evolving worlds. The concept symbols of Uversa embrace more than a billion characters, although the basic alphabet contains only seventy symbols. The language of Nebadon is not quite so elaborate, the basic symbols, or alphabet, being forty-eight in number.

2. Concept recorders. This second group of recorders are concerned with the preservation of concept pictures, idea patterns. This is a form of permanent recording unknown on the material realms, and by this method I could gain more knowledge in one hour of your time than you could gain in one hundred years of perusing ordinary written language.

3. Ideograph recorders. We have the equivalent of both your written and spoken word, but in preserving thought, we usually employ concept picturization and ideograph techniques. Those who preserve ideographs are able to improve one thousandfold upon the work of the concept recorders.

4. Promoters of oratory. This group of recorders are occupied with the task of preserving thought for reproduction by oratory. But in the language of Nebadon we could, in a half hour's address, cover the subject matter of the entire lifetime of a Urantia mortal. Your only hope of comprehending these transactions is to pause and consider the technique of your disordered and garbled dream life--how you can in a few seconds traverse years of experience in these fantasies of the night season.

The oratory of the spirit world is one of the rare treats which await you who have heard only the crude and stumbling orations of Urantia. There is harmony
of music and euphony of expression in the orations of Salvington and Edentia which are inspiring beyond description. These burning concepts are like gems of beauty in diadems of glory. But I cannot do it! I cannot convey to the human mind the breadth and depth of these realities of another world!

5. The broadcast directors. The broadcasts of Paradise, the superuniverses, and the local universes are under the general supervision of this group of thought conservers. They serve as censors and editors as well as co-ordinators of the broadcast material, making a superuniverse adaptation of all Paradise broadcasts and adapting and translating the broadcasts of the Ancients of Days into the individual tongues of the local universes.

The local universe broadcasts must also be modified for reception by the systems and the individual planets. The transmittal of these space reports is carefully supervised, and there is always a back registry to insure the proper reception of every report on every world in a given circuit. These broadcast directors are technically expert in the utilization of the currents of space for all purposes of intelligence communication.

6. The rhythm recorders. Urantians would undoubtedly denominate these artisans poets, although their work is very different from, and almost infinitely transcends, your poetic productions. Rhythm is less exhausting to both morontia and spirit beings, and so an effort is frequently made to increase efficiency, as well as to augment pleasure, by executing numerous functions in rhythmic form. I only wish you might be privileged to hear some of the poetic broadcasts of the Edentia assemblies and to enjoy the richness of the color and tone of the constellation geniuses who are masters of this exquisite form of self-expression and social harmonization.

7. The morontia recorders. I am at a loss to know how to depict to the material mind the function of this important group of thought recorders assigned to the work of preserving the ensemble pictures of the various groupings of morontia affairs and spirit transactions; crudely illustrated, they are the group photographers of the transition worlds. They save for the future the vital scenes and associations of these progressive epochs, preserving them in the archives of the morontia halls of records.

http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper44.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper44.html&line=135#mfs





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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:09:47 pm
Chronos

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   posted 08-09-2004 12:09 PM                       
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Fine material, Absonite & Dhill, but I agree, nothing on Scotland. We shall have to look harder. I did a search in pursuit of this earlier, yet turned up nothing at the time.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:11:26 pm
Chronos

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   posted 08-11-2004 01:27 PM                       
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Rockessence,
Could you be more specific about what you have heard of the ancient Scotland library? In what era did it exist..? I have also been looking for it because it seemed of interest yet could find nothing as of yet.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:11:46 pm
 
via mars 2
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   posted 08-11-2004 05:06 PM                       
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i brought it up - i'll find it. so off i go ...
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Posts: 2297 | From: arlington, va. | Registered: May 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:12:08 pm
via mars 2
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   posted 08-11-2004 06:12 PM                       
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it just dawned on me that when speaking of scotland proper, the term ancient is somewhat of a misnomer. more likely to call it early middle ages? nonetheless, the university of glasgow came about around 1450. even older is a repository of various knowledges primarily written in latin, and perhaps, if i remember correctly, old scots. i can't place the name right now, something to do with the old mactyre clans (mac sor?) and early christianity. the picts and kelts were more barbaric and unruly - certainly not known for the tempered activity of reading and acquiring written knowledge. i'll track this down ...
i had it bookmarked not too long ago, but evidently was purged. sorry about the goose chase.
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Posts: 2297 | From: arlington, va. | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:12:33 pm
 
rockessence

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   posted 08-11-2004 07:12 PM                       
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What I was refering to pre-dated the demise of the Alexandrian debacle....Druidic or something.
To repeat my last entry on the subject:

"The only other thing was rather squirrelly: That when the Library at Alexandria burned, there were those who were relieved that there still remained the one in the North....Who knows?

To repeat my original question: (7/26)

I remember hearing years ago that the other "Great Library" (University) of the time was in Scotland and that many great families of the Mediterranean area sent their sons all the way up there to be educated."

They say that Jesus of Nazareth went to Britain along with his maternal uncle Joseph of Arimethea who had mining holdings (tin, etc). I wonder if .....


[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 08-11-2004).]


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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:12:55 pm
 
Absonite

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  posted 08-11-2004 07:34 PM                       
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sorry rockette but Jesus never went to Britian.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:13:40 pm
dhill757

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   posted 08-11-2004 09:49 PM                       
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Absonite,
You did prove with your material that Jesus spent some time in Egypt!

Rockessence,

Actually, I heard that the Druids kept no written records, was it another people contemporary with them? This isn't what you're talking about, but I thought it was interesting as the author proposes that the megaliths themselves are part of a narrative:
http://www.morien-institute.org/maesoglan.html


quote:
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The Sacred Druid Library - Ynys Môn
Owen Morgan's efforts at disentangling the 'oral traditions' of both Morganwg, and of Wales generally, have been ridiculed by orthodox historians who condemned him for his methodology in decoding the druidic library written in the landscape, and for his adoption of the druidic title, Morien, upon his succession as Archdruid of the Chair of Morganwg following the death of Myfyr Morganwg.

But these condemnations, which continue today, are invariably made by so-called 'experts' and 'scholars' who fail miserably to grasp the very simple concept of the 'landscape as narrative', who have never even attempted to read it, and who have never experienced the rising of the new-born sun at the sacred places of the ancient Welsh druids.

May their eyes be opened, before the the last vestiges of the Druidic Heritage of ancient Cymru (Wales) is lost forever amidst the rantings of those who can only condemn what they fail to understand ...


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[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 08-11-2004).]


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:14:00 pm
Absonite

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  posted 08-11-2004 09:59 PM                       
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dhill
I don't know if it was a proof, but it was truth and it was fact.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:14:26 pm
rockessence

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dhill,
What a great site! Thanks so much for the tip....Notice paragraph 3:

"The mystery of the origins of the red dragon symbol, now on the flag of Wales, has perplexed many historians, writers and romanticists, and the archæological community generally has refrained from commenting on this most unusual emblem, claiming it does not concern them. In the ancient Welsh language it is known as 'Draig Goch' - 'red dragon', and in "Y Geiriadur Cymraeg Prifysgol Cymru", the "University of Wales Welsh Dictionary", (Cardiff, University of Wales Press, 1967, p. 1082) there are translations for the various uses of the Welsh word 'draig'. Amongst them are common uses of the word, which is today taken just to mean a 'dragon', but in times past it has also been used to refer to 'Mellt Distaw' - (sheet lightning), and also 'Mellt Didaranau' - (lightning unaccompanied by thunder).

But the most interesting common usage of the word in earlier times, according to this authoritative dictionary, is 'Maen Mellt' the word used to refer to a 'meteorite'. And this makes sense, as the Welsh word 'maen' translates as 'stone', while the Welsh word 'mellt' translates as 'lightning' - so literally a 'lightning-stone'. That the ancient language of the Welsh druids has words still in use today that have in the past been used to describe both a dragon and also a meteorite, is something that greatly helps us to follow the destructive 'trail of the dragon' as it was described in early Welsh 'riddle-poems'. This is especially true of the "Hanes Taliesin", a riddle-poem that is so full of astronomical terms it is obvious that they were deliberately used by the composer - but to what end?

Could they have been used to encode druidic astro-mythology that was accessible only to 'initiates'? In the mid 6th. century A.D. the ancient Cymric empire, that at one time had stretched from Cornwall in the south to Strathclyde in the north, was rapidly diminishing. And it was at this time that the bard who called himself Taliesin (radiant brow) first read his riddle-poem, "Hanes Taliesin" ("The History of Taliesin"), to King Maelgwn Gwynedd, who, like the bard, had been a student of St Illtud at the ancient druid college, later called Llanilltud Fawr, in Morganwg. Was King Maelgwn Gwynedd the only one in his 6th century Conwy Eisteddfod who was meant to understand the riddle-poem?."
http://www.morien-institute.org/darkages.html

So maybe it was Wales, not Scotland! Certainly a famous 6th century "ancient druid college" had been there for a long long time....


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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:15:01 pm
dhill757

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   posted 08-12-2004 02:41 AM                       
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I thought you'd like it! Check out all the pictures! Was this the one you were looking for or should we keep searching..?
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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:15:25 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-12-2004 10:31 AM                       
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dhill,
I don't know! Who cares! This is a blast....

Have you checked out my thread on Alt-land-is lately? Some terrific stuff from Faravid and Boreas!


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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:16:30 pm
dhill757

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   posted 08-12-2004 08:06 PM                       
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Rockessence, glad you like it!
Yes, I have been reading the latest, glad that Boreas is back again, he has a lot of interesting material, too.
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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:16:46 pm
rockessence

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   posted 08-14-2004 12:56 AM                       
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dhill,
I have really enjoyed that site and it has given me some to think about.
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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:17:07 pm
Riven

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  posted 08-14-2004 01:46 AM                       
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")
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:17:31 pm
Riven

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  posted 08-14-2004 02:14 AM                       
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:)
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:18:10 pm
Helios

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   posted 08-18-2004 12:46 AM                       
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Greek and Hellenic Philosophy, Science and Humanities
Government
Definition of the polis
Origin Of the polis
Subdivisions of the city state
Political factions within the city state
Monarchy
Aristocracy
Oligarchy
Timocracy
Tyranny
Democracy
Leagues
Amphictyonies
Cultural History
Philosophy
Presocratic philosophy

Eleatics: Xenophanes of Colophon- gave currency to the antithesis of the One and the Many. Emphasized the distinction between knowledge and opinion - Parmenides of Elea - Zeno of Elea

Thales of Miletus (624-546) -celebrated for his mathematical attainments, as well as for a theory of the material cause of the universe- 'all things are water'

Anaximander of Miletus (611-547)
Anaximenes of Miletus
Heracleitus of Ephesus- 'fire is principal; all things are in flux'

Pythagoras- originally of Samos, afterwards of Croton, a mathematician, vegetarian, and social reformer (Diodorus Siculus X.3-10)

Physicists- Anaxagoras of Clazomenae (500-428); Leucippus of Abdera; Empedocles (495-435): Four elements- love and hate
Democritus (460-351)- atomic theory

Gorgias of Leontini (483-376)

Protagoras of Abdera (481-411) 'man is the measure of all things'

Sophists- flourished from about the middle of the fifth to the middle of the fourth century --Sophistry of literature: Protagoras>Evenus of Paros>Polymathic sophistry professed by Hippias of Elis> eristic sophistry: Euthydemus and Dionysodorus; sophistry of forensic rhetoric: Tisias of Syracuse brought to central Greece by Gorgias in 427> Political rhetoric: Isocrates (436-338)
Cynics- Antisthenes of Athens-'virtue is the supreme end of human life'; Diogenes of Sinope

Aristippus of Cyrene and the Cyrenaic School

Socrates (469-399) of Athens, bred as a sculptor. He served with distinction at Potidaea in 432-429, at Delium in 424, and at Amphipolis in 422. Brought to trial and condemned to death in 399 by the restored democrats

Plato (427-347)
The Academy- Speusippus (347) , Xenocrates (339), Polemo (314), Crates(270)

Aristotle (384-270)
The School of the Peripatetics- The Lyceum:

Theophrastus (323-288), Eudemus, Strato of Lampsacus

Epicurus (341-270)
Stoics

The Seven Wise Men: ****** Solon, Myson, Chilon, Pittacus, Bias (Diodorus Siculus IX.1-

Historians
Hecataeus of Miletus: one of the founders of geographical science; wrote in prose:Genealogies

Herodotus (484-430)
Thucydides (c. 460-400)
Xenophon (445-355): Anabasis, Hellenica :Philo-Laconian and anti-Theban
Manetho (c. 350-300) was a high priest of Heliopolis in Egypt who wrote in Greek a history of Egypt from the oldest times down to Alexander's conquests
Cleitarchus

Polybius of Megalopolis (c. 200-118 BCE)
Poseidonius of Apamea 235-151 bce- a pupil of the stoic Panaetius. Taught in Rhodes where Cicero heard his lectures. A friend of Pompeius: his historical work beginning in 144 BCE where Polybius ended, appears to have come down to 82 BCE This work was a basic source for Livy, Diodorus, Appian,

Plutarch and Josephus
Eratosthenes
Apollodorus
Diodorus Siculus, Greek historian of Agyrium in Sicily, c. 80-20 BCE, wrote forty books of world history in three parts- 1]a mythical history of peoples Greek and nonGreek up until the Trojan war; 2] a history up until Alexander's death (323 BCE); and a history up until 54 BCE
Dionysius of Halicarnassus
Plutarch of Chaeronea (2nd half of 1st century CE- early 2nd century)
Arrian of Nicomedia (2nd century CE)
Appian

Quintus Curtius (wrote in Latin) - 1st century CE wrote a history of Alexander in ten books, the first two of which are lost.

Tragic historians
Historians no longer extant
Aristobolous of Cassandreia FGrH 139 a contemporary of Alexander and a source for Arrian

Charon of Lampsacus: composed a history of Persia: published after 465 BCE
Dionysius of Miletus wrote a history of Persia down to the death of Darius and included the defeat at Marathon
Scylax of Caryanda: a Carian Greek employed by Darius to survey the course of the Indus who published an account of his expedition; he also wrote a work of contemporary history which centered around his fellowcountryman Heracleides of Mylasae, who deserted the Persians and helped the Greeks against the invasion of Xerxes.
Antiochus of Syracuse: composed a history of the western Greeks: the early history of Sicily and Italy and the early Greek colonies

Cratippus : a leading historian of Athens after Thucydides

Theopompus- continued the work of

Thucydides in his Hellenica which covered the same period as Cratippus
Philistus of Syracuse: history of Sicily
Hellanicus of Lesbos: he wrote about the history of Persia, customs of barbarians, on the mythical period of Greece, on the origins of Greek cities in Asia, on the history of Athens: 683-682>411 BCE; construction of a systematic chronology> Hellanicus sought to reconstruct a complete chronicle of Greek history, from genealogies, mythographers, logographers, archon lists, oriental dating and inscriptionary evidence such as the list of Argive priestesses of Hera
Zoilos 'the scourge of Homer'
Anaximenes one of the teachers of Alexander

Ephoros - born c. 400 bce at Cyme in Asia Minor, died 356. He was a pupil of Isocrates. He was the author of the first 'universal history', beginning with the mythical origins of Greece up until 356 BCE in 29 books However this was distinctly a history of Greece not a history of the world; called 'universal' as it was PanHellenic. He almost certainly depended upon Hellanicus of Lesbos for the period of the Fifty years

Eumenes of Cardia
Diyllus the Athenian historian compiled a universal history in twenty six books covering years 357-297 [Jacoby FGH no. 73]
Psaon of Plataea wrote a continuation of Diyllus' work in thirty books [Jacoby, FGH #78]

Hegesias:wrote a history of Alexander
Agartharcides
Philistus
Ptolemy FgrH 138

Callius of Syracuse FGH, no. 564
Timaeus (340-256 bce) of Tauremenium FGrH 566 illustrates the translation from Attic to Hellenistic literature; exiled from Sicily 317 BCE Polybius devotes nearly the whole of book xii to an attack on Timaeus Diod. xxi.17; ' his hatred of the Sicilian tyrants and particularly Agathocles has colored the surviving historical tradition' (Austin p.52 n. 7)

Duris of Samos, a pupil of Theophrastus, became tyrant of Samos and wrote a history of greece from 370 bce at least to the death of Lysimachus [ FHG,2.468 and fr. 33], also a biography of Agathocles and a history of his home city [Jacoby FGH #73]
http://www.juyayay.com/outline/greece/culture02.html
Phylarchus : wrote a history of the years 272-220



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:18:33 pm
cleasterwood

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:19:08 pm
Helios

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I have just run across some new information on the development of the Library of Alexandria, seems suitable to post it here..!

quote:
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The Legend of the Library
"And concerning the number of books, the establishment of libraries, and the collection in the
Hall of the the Muses, why need I even speak, since they are all in men's memories?"

-- Athenaeus [1]

The library of Alexandria is a legend. Not a myth, but a legend. The destruction of the library of the ancient world has been retold many times
and attributed to just as many different factions and rulers, not for the purpose of chronicling that ediface of education, but as political slander.
Much ink has been spilled, ancient and modern, over the 40,000 volumes housed in grain depots near the harbor, which were supposedly
incinerated when Julius Caesar torched the fleet of Cleopatra's brother and rival monarch. So says Livy, apparently, in one of his lost books,
which Seneca quotes.[2] The figure of Hypatia, a fifth-century scholar and mathematician of Alexandria, being dragged from her chariot from
an angry Pagan-hating mob of monks who flayed her alive then burned her upon the remnants of the old Library, has found her way into
legend as well, thanks to a few contemporary sources which survived.[3] Yet while we know of many rumors of the destruction of "The
Library" (in fact, there were at least three different libraries coexisting in the city), and know of whole schools of Alexandrian scholars and
scholarship, there is scant data about the whereabouts, layout, holdings, organization, administration, and physical structure of the place.

Foundation

Demetrius of Phaleron

The first mention we have of the library is in The Letter of Aristeas (ca. 180-145 B.C.E.), a Jewish scholar housed at the Library
chronicling the translation of the Septuagint into Greek by seventy-two rabbis. This massive production was commissioned by the Athenian
exile Demetrius of Phaleron under his patron, Ptolemy I, Ptolemy Soter.[4] Demetrius himself was a former ruler, no less than a ten-year
tyrant of Athens, and a first-generation Peripatetic scholar. That is, he was one of the students of Aristotle along with Theophrastus and
Alexander the Great. Demetrius, helped into power in Athens by Alexander's successor Cassander, provided backing for Theophrastus to
found a Lyceum devoted to his master's studies and modelled after Plato's Academy. [5] After Ptolemy I Soter, on of Alexander's successful
generals, secured the kingship for himself of conquered Egypt, Theophrastus turned down the Pharoah's invitation in 297 B.C.E to tutor
Ptolemy's heir, and instead recommended Demetrius, who had recently been driven out from Athens as a result of political fallout from the
conflicts of Alexander's successors [Diog. Laert. 5.37].[6]

Precedents for the Museum

According to Aristeas, Demetrius recommended Ptolemy gather a collection of books on kingship and ruling in the style of Plato's
philosopher-kings, and furthermore to gather books of all the world's people that he might better understand subjects and trade partners.
Demetrius must also have helped inspire the founding of a Museum in Ptolemy's capital, Alexandria, a temple dedicated to the Muses. This
was not the first such temple dedicated to the divine patrons of arts and sciences. However, coming as it did in the half-century after the
establishment of Plato's Academy, Aristotle's Lyceum, Zeno's Stoa and the school of Epicurus,[7] and located in a rich center of international
trade and cultural exchange, the place and time were ripe for such an institution to flower. Scholars were invited there to carry out the
Peripatetic activities of observation and deduction in math, medicine, astronomy, and geometry; and most of the western world's discoveries
were recorded and debated there for the next 500 years.[8]

The Museum

Archaeologists have not uncovered the foundations of the Museum, although they have excavated portions of the "daughter Library" in the
nearby temple of Serapis. From scattered primary sources this much seems relatively clear: it was in the Bruc****m (northeast) sector of the
city, probably in or adjacent to the palace grounds. It was surrounded by courts, gardens, and a zoological park containing exotic animals
from far-flung parts of the Alexandrian empire. According to Strabo [17.1.8], at its heart was a Great Hall and a circular domed dining hall
(perhaps Roman?) with an observatory in its upper terrace; classrooms surrounded it. This is very similar to the layout of the Serapeum,
which was begun by Ptolemy II Philadelphus and completed by his son.[9] An estimated 30-50 scholars were probably permanently housed
there, probably fed and funded first by the royal family, and later, according to an early Roman papyrus, by public money.[10]

The Stacks

The physical shelves of the Library may have been in one of the outlying lecture halls or in the garden, or it may have been housed in the
Great Hall. They consisted of pigeonholes or racks for the scrolls, the best of which were wrapped in linen or leather jackets. Parchment
skins--vellum-- came into vogue after Alexandria stopped exporting papyrus in an attempt to strangle its younger rival library, set up by the
Seleucids in Pergamon. In Roman times, manuscripts started to be written in codex (book) form, and began to be stored in wooden chests
called armaria .[11]


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:26:29 pm
 
Helios

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quote:
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Development of the Library
The Septuagint

Aristeas, writing 100 years after the library's inception, records that Ptolemy I handed over to Demetrius the job of gathering books and
scrolls, as well as letting him supervise a massive effort to translate other cultures' works into Greek. This process began with the translation
of the Septuagint, the Old Testament, into Greek, for which project Ptolemy hired and housed 72 rabbis at Demetrius' suggestion. [Letter of
Aristeas 9-10]. [12]

Acquisition of Books

At the time of Demetrius, Greek libraries were usually collections of manuscripts by private individuals, such as Aristotle's library of his own
and other works. Egypt's temples often had shelves containing an assortment of religious and official texts, as did certain Museums in the
Greek world. It was Ptolemy I's great ambition to possess all known world literature[13] that pushed these idiosyncratic collections-- the
web sites of the ancient world-- into the realm of a true library. John Tzetzes records several centuries later that Callimachus cataloged
400,000 "mixed" scrolls (probably those that contained more than one chapter, work, or even author, see example in Vatican) and 90,000
"unmixed", plus an additional 42,000 in the Serapeum.[14] Ptolemy's successors' methods for achieving his goal were certainly unique.
Ptolemy III wrote a letter "to all the world's sovereigns" asking to borrow their books [Galen 17.1 Kühn p. 601ff][15], When Athens lent
him the texts to Euripides, Aeschylus, and Sophocles, he had them copied, returned the copies, and kept the originals. Supposedly, all ships
that stopped in the port of Alexandria were searched for books which were given them same treatment, thus the term "ship libraries" for the
collection housed in the Museum. This unorthodox procedure did at least inspire the first systematic work in emendation and collation of
classical texts without which none of the authors would have survived.

The First Librarians

While Demetrius was a convert of Serapis[16] and thus probably an official of the new Greco-Egyptian cult invented by Ptolemy, the
Serapeum was not yet built at his death and he is remembered neither as librarian of that institution nor at the Museum. The first recorded
Librarian was Zenodotus of Ephesus, holding that post from the end of Ptolemy I's reign until 245 B.C.E. His successor Callimachus of
Cyrene was perhaps Alexandria's most famous librarian, creating for the first time a subject catalog in 120,000 scrolls of the Library's
holdings, called the Pinakes or Tables.[17] It was by no means comprehensive, but was more like a good subject index on the web.
Apollonius of Rhodes, his younger rival and the writer of the notoriously meticulous epic, Argonautica, seems to have been Callimachus'
replacement.[18] Eratosthenes of Cyrene, Stoic geographer and mathematician, succeeded him in 235, and compiled his "tetagmenos epi
teis megaleis bibliothekeis", the "scheme of the great bookshelves". In 195 Aristophanes, a Homeric scholar of no relation to the comic
playwright, took up the position, and updated Callimachus' Pinakes. The last recorded librarian was Aristarchus of Samothrace, the
astronomer, who took up the position in 180 B.C.E. and was driven out during dynastic struggles between two Ptolemies. While the library
and Museum persisted for many centuries afterwards, from that time onward scholars are simply recorded as Alexandrian, and no Librarians
are mentioned by name.[19]

Organization

While it is doubtful the library had a perfectly systematic organization, but rather tended to house new chests and shelves of papyri in the
groups in which they were acquired, the Alexandrians from Callimachus onwards tried to keep track of their holdings via a subject catalog. In
this they followed Aristotle's divisions of knowledge, or at least his style of breaking up what had previously fallen under the umbrella of
"philosophy" into subdivisions of observational and deductive sciences. Since this paper is an overview of the work and scholarship carried
out at Alexandria, I will adhere to the subject divisions first set forth by Callimachus in his Pinakes, of mathematics, medicine, astronomy,
and geometry, as well as philology. I have added the Aristotelian category of mechanics for some of the applied science which grew out of
Alexandrian studies.

Mathematics

Alexandrian mathematicians concerned themselves for the most part with geometry, but we know of some researches specific to number
theory. Prime numbers were a source of fascination from the time of the Pythagoreans onwards. Eratosthenes the Librarian dabbled in
numbers along with everything else, and is reported to have invented the "sieve", a method for finding new ones.[20] Euclid also was known
to have studied this tricky subject.

Eudoxis of Cnidus (see biography), Euclid's pupil, probably worked out of Alexandria, and is known for developing an early method of
integration, studied the uses of proportions for problem solving, and contributed various formulas for measuring three dimensional figures.
Pappus (See biography), a fourth century A.D. scholar, was one of the last of the Greek mathematicians and concentrated on large numbers
and constructions in semicircles (See Vatican manuscript), and he was also an important transmitter into European culture of astrology
gleaned from eastern sources.[21] Theon and his daughter Hypatia also continued work in astronomy, geometry, and mathematics,
commenting on their predecessors, but none of their works survive.

Astronomy

Astronomy was not merely the projection of three-dimensional geometry into a fourth, time, although this is how many Greek scientists
classified it. The movements of the stars and sun were essential for determining terrestrial positions, since they provided universal points of
reference. In Egypt, this was particularly vital for property rights, because the yearly inundation often altered physical landmarks and
boundaries between fields. For Alexandria, whose lifeblood was export of grain and papyrus to the rest of the Mediterranean, developments
in astronomy allowed sailors to do away with consultation of oracles, and to risk year-round navigation out of sight of the coast.[22] Earlier
Greek astronomers had concentrated on theoretical models of the universe; Alexandrians now took up the task of detailed observations and
mathematical systems to develop and buttress existing ideas.

Maps of Heaven

Eratosthenes, the versatile third librarian, amassed a poetic catalog of 44 constellations complete with background myths, as well as a list of
475 fixed stars.[23] Hipparchus was credited with inventing longitude and latitude, importing the 360-degree circular system from Babylonia,
calculating the length of a year within six minutes accuracy, amassing sky-chart of constellations and stars, and speculated that stars might
have both births and deaths.[24]

Schemes of the Universe

Aristarchus applied Alexandrian trigonometry to estimate the distances and sizes of the sun and moon, and also postulated a heliocentric
universe (biography). A fellow Museum scholar, the Stoic Cleanthus, accused him of blatant impiety.[25] Hipparchus of Bithynia, during the
reign of Ptolemy VII, discovered and measured the procession of the equinoxes, the size and trajectory of the sun, and the moon's path.[26]
300 years later Ptolemy (no known relation to royalty, see biography) worked out mathematically his elegant system of epicycles to support
the geocentric, Aristotelian view,[27] and wrote a treatise on astrology, both of which were to become the medieval paradigm.[28] (See
Vatican manuscript on astronomy and exhibit on geography.)

Geometry

The Alexandrians compiled and set down many of the geometric principles of earlier Greek mathematicians, and also had access to
Babylonian and Egyptian knowledge on that subject. This is one of the areas in which the Museum excelled, producing its share of great
geometers, right from its inception. Demetrius of Phaleron is said to have invited the scholar Euclid (biography) to Alexandria, and his
Elements are well-known to be the foundation of geometry for many centuries. [29] His successors, notably Apollonius of the second
century B.C.E., carried on his research in conics (Vatican manuscript, biography), as did Hipparchus in the second century A.D. Archimedes
(biography)is credited with the discovery of pi.[30]

Eratosthenes and Spherical Geometry: Calculating the Earth's circumference

The third librarian of Alexandria, Eratosthenes (275-194 B.C.E), calculated the circumference of the earth to within 1%, based on the
measured distance from Aswan to Alexandria and the fraction of the whole arc determined by differing shadow-lengths at noon in those two
locations. He further suggested that the seas were connected, that Africa might be circumnavigated, and that "India could be reached by
sailing westward from Spain." Finally, probably drawing on Egyptian and Near Eastern observations, he deduced the length of the year to
365 1/4 days and first suggested the idea of adding a "leap day" every four years.[31]

Mechanics: Applied Science

Archimedes (see biography) was one of the early Alexandria-affiliated scholars to apply geometers' and astronomers' theories of motion to
mechanical devices. Among his discoveries were the lever and-- as an extension of the same principle-- the "Archimedes screw," a
handcranked device for lifting water.[32] He also figures in the tale of the scientist arising from his tub with the cry of "Eureka" after
discovering that water is displaced by physical objects immersed in it.[33]

Hydraulics was an Alexandria-born science which was the principle behind Hero's Pneumatics, a long work detailing many machines and
"robots" simulating human actions. The distinction between practical and fanciful probably did not occur to him in his thought-experiments,
which included statues that poured libations, mixed drinks, drank, and sang (via compressed air). He also invented a windmill-driven pipe
organ, a steam boiler which was later adapted for Roman baths, a self-trimming lamp, and the candelaria, in which the heat of candle-flames
caused a hoop from which were suspended small figures to spin.[34] His sometimes whimsical application of the infant sciences are
reminiscent of the modern Rube Goldberg's "inventions" during the technological revolution of this century.

Medicine

The study of anatomy, tracing its roots to Aristotle (see Andrea's case study on Aristotelian anatomy), was conducted extensively by many
Alexandrians, who may have taken advantage both of the zoological gardens for animal specimens, and Egyptian burial practices and craft
for human anatomy. One of its first scholars, Herophilus, both collected and compiled the Hippocratic corpus, and embarked on studies of
his own. He first distinguished the brain and nervous system as a unit, as well as the function of the heart, the circulation of blood, and
probably several other anatomical features. His successor Eristratos concentrated on the digestive system and the effects of nutrition, and
postulated that nutrition as well as nerves and brain influenced mental diseases. Finally, in the second century A.D., Galen drew upon
Alexandria's vast researches and his own investigations to compile fifteen books on anatomy and the art of medicine.[35] (See Vatican
manuscript).

Conclusion

The Museum of Alexandria was founded at a unique place and time which allowed its scholars to draw on the deductive techniques of
Aristotle and Greek thought, in order to apply these methods to the knowledges of Greece, Egypt, Macedonia, Babylonia, and beyond. The
location of Alexandria as a center of trade, and in particular as the major exporter of writing material, offered vast opportunities for the
amassing of information from different cultures and schools of thought. Its scholars' deliberate efforts to compile and critically analyze the
knowledge of their day allowed for the first systematic, long-term research by dedicated specialists in the new fields of science suggested by
Aristotle and Callimachus. Whole new disciplines, such as grammar, manuscript preservation, and trigonometry were established. Moreover,
the fortuitious collection of documents in an Egyptian city allowed the transmission and translation of vital classical texts into Arabic and
Hebrew, where they might be preserved long after copies were lost during the Middle Ages in Europe. Alexandria and its cousins, the
Lyceum, Academy, and the younger Pergamon library, were probably the prototypes both for the medieval monastery and universities.
While modern scholars often lament the amount of information lost through the centuries since the Museum's fall, an amazing number of
Alexandrian discoveries and theories, especially in mathematics and geometry, still provide the groundwork for modern research in these
fields. Finally, the methods of research, study, and information storage and organization developed in the Library are much the same as those
used today, but just as the medium of linear scrolls gave way to books in its halls, we now are watching the transformation from books to
multilayered documents in the electronic medium.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibliography

Bevan, Edwyn. The House of Ptolemy. Argonaut Inc. Chicago: 1968.

Canfora, Luciano. The Vanished Library. trans. Martin Ryle. University of California Press. Berkely: 1989.

Ellis, Ptolemy of Egypt. Routledge. New York: 1994.

Fraser, P. M. Ptolemaic Alexandria. Volume I of III. Oxford University Press. Oxford: 1972.

Johnson, Emer D. History of Libraries in the Western World. Scarecrow Press, Inc. Metuchen: 1970.

Marlowe, John. The Golden Age of Alexandria. Trinity Press. London: 1971.


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/Students/Ellen/Museum.html


[This message has been edited by Helios (edited 08-25-2004).]


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:27:08 pm
Helios

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quote:
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The Mysterious Fate of the Great Library of Alexandria
Introduction

What happened to the Royal Library of Alexandria? We can be certain it was there once, founded by Ptolomy II Soter, and we can be
equally certain it is not there now. It formed part of the Museum which was located in the Bruchion or palace quarter of the city of
Alexandria. This great ancient city, occupying a spit of land on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea, had been founded by Alexander the
Great in his flying visit to Egypt and became the capital of the last dynasty of Pharaohs descended from Alexander's general Ptolemy. The
Great or more properly Royal Library formed a part of the Museum but whether or not it was a separate building is unclear.

Stories about its demise have been circulating for centuries and date back to at least the first century AD. These stories continue to be told
and embellished today by those who wish to make a moral attack against the alleged vandals. We find that three parties are blamed for the
destruction and they correspond to the three occupying powers that ruled Alexandria after it had been lost by the Greeks. Let me first tell
those stories as we hear them today - without references, largely inaccurate and used as polemic. Then I will try and establish what, if
anything we can know before finally and rather indulgently making my own suggestions.

The suspects respectively are a Roman, a Christian and a Moslem - Julius Caesar, Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria and Caliph Omar of
Damascus. It is clear that the Royal Library could not have been burnt down or otherwise destroyed by all three of these characters and so
we find we have too many sources for the event of the destruction rather than a paucity. As scholars of the Gospels will vouch, this too can
be an embarrassment. How we decide to reconcile the stories will depend almost entirely on how we criticise the sources and which of them
we choose to consider most reliable.

Archaeology can be a help with ancient history although it tends to be silent about the things in which we are most interested leading the more
foolish archaeologists to claim they never happened. In the case of Alexandria a series of earthquakes and floods in the middle ages mean
that the entire palace quarter in the North East of the city is now underwater and largely inaccessible. Recent work in underwater
archaeology has revealed more but we will probably never be able to dig around in the foundations of the Museum. The Great Temple of
Serapis, to which we will later return, was in the south-western quarter and parts of its foundations have been excavated.

Julius Caesar

First, let us read the legendary account:

It is often said that the Romans were civilised but their most famous general was responsible for the greatest act of
vandalism during antiquity. Julius Caesar was attacking Alexandria in pursuit of his archrival Pompey when he found
himself about to be cut off by the Egyptian fleet. Realising that this would leave him in a desperate predicament, he
took decisive action and sent fire ships into the harbour. His plan was a success and the enemy fleet was quickly
aflame. But the fire did not stop these and jumped onto the dockside which was laden with flammable materials ready
for export. Next it spread in land and before anyone could stop it, the Great Library itself was blazing brightly as
400,000 priceless scrolls were reduced to ashes. As for Caesar himself, did not think it important enough to
mention in his memoirs.

The accused was indeed in Alexandria in 47 - 48 BC after arriving in pursuit of his rival Pompey. Caesar was able to occupy the city without
any trouble after destroying the Egyptian fleet and was residing in the palace with Cleopatra when more trouble started. Some henchmen of
the Pharaoh attacked with a sizable force and Caesar suddenly found himself stuck in a hostile city with very few forces. That he still won out
is a tribute to his luck and powers of leadership. This much is uncontested but to unravel the fate of the Royal Library we must examine the
ancient sources.

Julius Caesar - The Civil Wars

The earliest account we have of this these events is in The Civil Wars penned by Caesar (died 44BC) himself. In it he explains how he had
to set the dockyards and Alexandrine fleet alight for his own safety as he was in dire straits. As to whether the fire spread away from the
shore and also damaged the Royal Library, he is silent. The narrative in The Civil Wars break off at the start of the campaign in Egypt and the
story is taken up by one of his lieutenant's called Hirtius (died 43BC) in The Alexandrine War. It does not include any mention of setting
fire to Alexandria but instead states that in fact the city would not burn as it was made purely of stone.

We can log this as a Not Guilty plea by the accused but note that a reason he might have mentioned that Alexandria does not burn would be
to hide his own action of burning it. Future history demonstrated many times that Alexandria burns just as well as any other city. The fire is
also not mentioned by Cicero in his philippics against Caesar's ally Mark Anthony. This is a valuable witness for the defence, as Cicero did
not like Caesar at all. Unfortunately it is also an argument from silence and it is very possible that Cicero either did not know about everything
that happened, saw no need to mention this particular event or mentioned it in the quarter of his works no longer extant.

Strabo - Geography

The great scholar, Strabo (died after 24AD) was in Alexandria in 20BC and in all his detailed description of the palace and Museum does
not mention the library at all. This omission is often explained by scholars claiming that the library was inside the Museum or annexed to it.
But even so, not breathing a word about this famous institution is very suspicious. Can we conclude that the library was no longer there but
that political constraints meant that its fate still could not be mentioned?

Modern writer, Mostafa El-Abbadi, comes up with a more subtle point. He shows how Strabo mentions the body of research available to
one of the earlier librarians was much greater than Strabo himself had access to. He concludes that this shows that Strabo did not have
access to the wisdom of the Royal Library that his illustrious predecessor had. The point is small but potentially significant.

Livy and Florus - Epitome of the History of Rome

The first mention of the fire at Alexandria would seem to come from Livy (died 17AD) in his History of Rome. The book that it was included
in is lost and the surviving Summaries are too brief to include it. However, a second century Epitome written by Florus survives and it says
that the fire was started by Caesar to clear the area around his position so the enemy had no cover from which to fire arrows. The library
itself is not mentioned by Florus although it was in the same area of the city as Caesar who was occupying the palace at the time.

The Younger Seneca - On Tranquillity of the Mind

In fact we do know that the Royal Library is mentioned by Livy because he is later quoted by Seneca (died 65AD) in his dialogue On the
Tranquillity of the Mind where he also says that a great number of books were destroyed. It has been asserted that Seneca must have got
his knowledge about the destruction of the books from Livy but a close reading of the dialogue does not bear this out. Seneca actually only
states that Livy thought the library was "the most distinguished achievement of the good taste and solicitude of kings" and then only so as he
can disagree.

The actual number of books destroyed that Seneca gives is matter of some controversy that we will need to briefly address. In ancient
manuscripts it is common for large numbers to be expressed as a dot placed above the numeral for each power of ten. Clearly in copying it is
easy to make a mistake with the number of dots and errors by a factor of ten are frequent. That may have happened in the case of On the
Tranquillity of the Mind. The manuscript from Monte Cassino actually reads 40,000 books but this is usually corrected to 400,000 by editors
as other sources such as Orosius give this figure for the number of scrolls destroyed. I have not seen the manuscript, of course, so do not
know if this way the number is expressed. However, even if it was given in words the difference between 40,000 and 400,000 is also pretty
small. I propose therefore that the number given by Seneca, and indeed all other ancient sources, should be ruled as inadmissible as evidence
because we cannot be sure of what it was originally.

Plutarch and Dio Cassius - Life of Caesar and Roman History

After this, the references become more explicit. Plutarch (died 120AD), in his Life of Caesar throws in a reference to the destruction of the
library almost casually. Now Plutarch does not seem to carry a brief against Caesar, although he is happy to criticise him, so we should take
this reference seriously. Additionally, he had visited Alexandria and presumably might have noticed if the library was still in existence. Dio
Cassius (died 235AD) tells us that warehouses of books near the docks were accidentally burnt by Caesar's men. His words are difficult to
pin down and have led some scholars to suggest that only books waiting for export were destroyed. This reads far more into the text than it
allows and I do not think that Dio saying that the books 'happened' to be in the path of the flames means that usually they were kept
somewhere else.

Aulus Gellius - Attic Nights

Gellius (died 180 AD) included in his Attic Nights contain a brief passage about libraries where the destruction of the Royal Library is
mentioned as taking place by accident during our first war against Alexandria when auxiliary soldiers started a fire. This first war was
Caesar's campaign and the second was when Octavian took Egypt from Mark Anthony and Cleopatra. In The Vanished Library, Luciano
Canfora claims that this passage is an interpolation on the strength that the introduction does not mention it but again the evidence for this
seems flimsy. Gellius claims 700,000 books went up in smoke.

Ammianus Marcellinus and Orosius - Roman History and History against the Pagans

One of the final pagan Roman historians, Ammianus Marcellinus (died 395AD), tells us about the fate of the library during an aside about the
city of Alexandria in his Roman History. He relates the story of the fire started by Julius Caesar is 'the unanimous belief of the ancient
authors' but confuses the library building with the Serapeum and increases the number of scrolls destroyed to 700,000 (perhaps Gellius is his
source). The story is repeated with the figure of 400,000 scrolls destroyed by Orosius (died after 415AD), an early Christian historian, in his
History against the Pagans. Both these writers are far too late to be accurate sources on their own but they do tell us that by the fourth
century the Royal Library was widely believed to have been destroyed by Julius Caesar. We will be discussing them further below with
regard to the destruction of the Serapeum which occurred in their own time.

The verdict on Caesar

Taken together we can conclude a number of things from these sources:

The earliest descriptions of the Alexandrine War, written by Caesar or his crony, deliberately cover up anything that reflects badly on
the great man. Their silence about burning down the world's greatest library, even by accident, is not surprising.
The library as a separate building did not exist by the time of Strabo's visit in 20BC.
The belief that Caesar had destroyed the library was widespread by the time his family no longer occupied the throne of the emperors
in the late first century AD. Plutarch, Gellius and Seneca are all evidence for this. We must therefore assume that the library did not
exist at this time. Plutarch, a Greek, would certainly have known if it did.

Although we cannot prove his guilt with first hand evidence, it seems justified to claim that the book stacks of the Royal Library were burnt
down by Julius Caesar. Perhaps the reading rooms, which in any case were part of the Museum, survived but, as Seneca and all the other
sources tell us, the books themselves perished. That scholarship continued in Alexandria after this time cannot be doubted but I can find no
explicit mention of the Royal Library after Caesar's ill-fated visit. Indeed as Athenaeus of Naucratis (died after 200AD) mournfully wrote in
the Deipnosophistai "And concerning the number of books and the establishment of libraries and the collection in the Museum, why need I
even speak when they are all the the memory of men."

Theophilus

Again, the legendary story first:

Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, is also the patron saint of arsonists. As Christianity slowly strangled the life
out of classical culture in the forth century it became more and more difficult to be a pagan. There stood in
Alexandria the great temple of Serapis called the Serapeum and attached to it was the Great Library of
Alexandria where all the wisdom of the ancients was preserved. Now Theophilus knew that as long as this
knowledge existed people would be less inclined to believe the bible so he set about destroying the pagan temples.
But the Serapeum was a huge structure, high on a mound and beyond the abilities of the raging Christian fanatics
to assault. Faced with this edifice, the Patriarch sent word to Rome. There the Emperor Theodosius the Great,
who had ordered that paganism be annihilated, gave his permission for the destruction of the Serapeum. Realising
they had no chance, the priests and priestesses fled their temple and the mob moved in. The vast structure was razed
to it foundations and the scrolls from the library were burnt in huge pyres in the streets of Alexandria.

Theophilus was indeed the Patriarch of Alexandria at the time that the Serapeum was converted in a Christian church although he has never
been made a saint! The date for the events recorded is usually given as 391AD when Theodosius was emperor and energetically converting
all his subjects to Christianity. The contention made is that there was another library in the Serapeum temple that a Christian mob destroyed
during their sacking of the temple. We need to establish if there really was a library there and also if Theophilus destroyed it.

The intervening years

About the library the sources are reasonably silent but this is not a surprise because we know already that we cannot be talking about the
Royal Library itself. However, Alexandria remained a centre of scholarship and other libraries existed. The Emperor Claudius set up the
eponymous named Claudian to be a centre for the study of history and Hadrian founded a library at the Caesarean temple during his visit.
Less reliably, Plutarch informs us that Mark Anthony gave Cleopatra the entire contents - some 200,000 rolls - of the Pergamon library as a
gift.

The 12th century Byzantine scholar, John Tzetzes, in his Prolegomena to Aristophanes preserves some details about the catalogue of the poet
Callimachus (died after 250BC) who said there were nearly 500,000 scrolls in the Royal Library and another 42,000 odd in the outer or
public library. Note that Callimachus is not known to have referred to the Serapeum Library although he is often assumed to be doing so.
The fourth century Bishop Epiphanius of Cyprus (died 402AD) in his Weights and Measures (actually a biblical commentary!) says that
there were over 50,000 volumes in the 'daughter' library that he places in the Serapeum. Our previous observations about numbers fully
apply here even if it seems fair to say that there were many fewer scrolls in the daughter than in the Royal Library. Epiphanius also tells us that
by his day the entire Bruchion quarter of Alexandria was laid waste, no doubt doe the the actions of Aurelian or Diocletian. There is a
detailed report of the acropolis of Alexandria in a Progymnasmata by Aphthonius of Ephesus (died after 400AD) which he presents as an
example of how to give a description. He speaks of book repositories open to the public and we can assume this refers to the Serapeum.
Unfortunately the date of the description is impossible to determine and nor can we tell if it is an eyewitness account. However, we do have
enough evidence in total to assert that there was once a library at the Serapeum even if it is not the same as the 'outer library' attached to the
Royal Library.

Despite the continuation of academic activity, Alexandria suffered much in the years up to 391AD. Augustus reduced it, Caracalla massacred
many of its citizens over a perceived insult and Aurelian also sacked the city and the palace quarter in which the Museum was situated.
Finally, the city was taken with great destruction by Diocletian at the start of the fourth century.

Ammianus Marcellinus - Roman History

In the Roman History, Ammianus waxes lyrical about the Serapeum but he then gets a bit confused and says that the libraries it held were
those burnt by Caesar in the Alexandrine War. The point is perhaps vital though because he had visited Alexandria and yet says of the
Serapeum "in it have been valuable libraries" in the perfect tense. This was before 391AD when Theophilus and his gang set to work and
very strongly suggests there were no books present in the temple at the time of its destruction.

Rufinus Tyrannius - Ecclesiastical History

The earliest description of the sack of the Serapeum was almost certainly one by Sophronius, a Christian scholar, called On the Overthrow
of Serapis and now lost. Rufinus (died 410AD) was an orthodox Latin Christian who spent many years of his life in Alexandria. He arrived in
372AD and whether or not he was actually present when the Serapeum was demolished, he was certainly there at around the same time. He
rather freely translated Eusebius's History of the Church into Latin and then added his own books X and XI taking the narrative up to his
own time. It is in book XI that we find the best source for the events at the Serapeum which he describes in detail. His account largely agrees
with the one given above except that he makes no mention of any library or books at all. He seems to regret the passing of the Serapeum but
puts the blame squarely on the local pagans for inciting the Christian mob. The only English translation of his work is still very much in
copyright so until I have produced another myself the reader will just have to take my word for it.

Eunapius - Lives of the Philosophers

The pagan writer Eunapius of Antioch (died after 400AD) included an account of the sack of the Serapeum in his Life of Antonius who,
before he died in 390AD, had prophesied that all the pagan temples in Alexandria would be destroyed (not a desperately surprising
contingency at the time). Eunapius wants to show how right he was. As well as being a pagan, Eunapius is vehemently anti-Christian and
spares no effort in making Theophilus and his followers look as foolish as possible. His narrative is laced with venom and sarcasm as he
describes the sack of the temple as a battle without an enemy. If a great library had been destroyed then Eunapius, the pagan scholar, would
surely have mentioned it. He does not.

Socrates Scholasticus, Hermias Sozomen and Theodoret

Socrates (died after 450AD) also wrote a History of the Church that continued on from that of Eusebius. His was more detailed and in
Greek rather than Latin. It contains a chapter about the destruction of the Serapeum which acknowledges that the deed was ordered by the
Emperor, that the building was demolished and that it was later converted to a church. Again, no mention is made of any books that might
have been in the Serapeum or what could have happened to them. His passage about the cross-shaped hieroglyphics found in the temple
gives us some idea of how Christianity turned various pagan symbols to its advantage.

The histories of Sozomen (died 443AD) and Theodoret (died after 457AD) cover a similar period. Despite being pleased to report in detail
the Serapeum's destruction they also make mention no books at all although Theodoret says that the wooden idols of Serapis were burnt.
Both of these histories are heavily dependent on Socrates but do include details from other sources.

Paulus Orosius - History against the Pagans

Orosius (died after 415AD) was a friend of Saint Augustine who wrote a History against the Pagans that was fully intended to paint all
non-Christians in a bad light. So as a historian he is useless but when he says something that suggests that his fellow Christians were not
whiter than white, that is to say, against the grain of his usual bias, we have to take it seriously. In his aside on the Great Library, he says
something of significance which is both an eyewitness detail and suggests that his fellow Christians are in the wrong. He says "…there exist in
temples book chests which we ourselves have seen and when these temples were plundered these, we are told, were emptied by our own
men in our own time." His statement that there was no other major library in Alexandria at the time of Caesar's expedition is interesting and
would seem to count against there being a Serapeum library at that time. However, Orosius is too late a source to carry much weight in this
matter.

From Orosius we can deduce that Christians did empty some temples of books but we cannot go much further. We cannot say the books
were destroyed as this is not stated nor can we say which temples he is talking about or who was responsible. However, we can be sure he
was not talking about the Serapeum as all sources agree it was razed to the ground and the temples Orosius visited are not only still standing
but even have their internal furninshings. The most likely explanation is that the books were removed to Christian libraries or sold.

The verdict on Theophilus

It is hard enough to establish beyond doubt that there was a library in the Serapeum at all but if there was, Ammianus makes clear that it was
no longer there by the mid fourth century. This is confirmed by the silence of all the sources, including one that would be keen to report
Christian atrocities, for the destruction of the temple in 391AD. Note that this is not an 'argument from silence' because there is no reason at
all to expect a mention of books in the Serapeum when it was demolished. An invalid 'argument from silence' is when we claim something that
is not mentioned did not happen, even though other evidence suggests it did. There is no positive evidence for the existence of the library and
instead near conclusive eye witness evidence against.

The story that Theophilus destroyed a library is clearly a fiction that we can very precisely lay at the door of Edward Gibbon. It is in his
monumental Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that we first find the allegation made. Gibbon seems mainly concerned to clear the Arabs
of the responsibility of destroying the library and allows his marked anti-Christian prejudice to cloud his better judgement. His excellent
footnotes show he had exactly the same sources as we do but drew the wrong conclusions. The story has recently been popularised by Carl
Sagan who includes it in Cosmos. He spices the story up with a role for the murdered philosopher Hypatia, even though there is no evidence
connecting her to the library at all.

Caliph Omar

First the legendary account:

The Moslems invaded Egypt during the seventh century as their fanaticism carried them on conquests that would
take form an empire stretching from Spain to India. There was not much of a struggle in Egypt and the locals found
the rule of the Caliph to be more tolerant than that of the Byzantines before them. However, when a Christian
called John informed the local Arab general that there existed in Alexandria a great Library preserving all the
knowledge in the world he was perturbed. Eventually he sent word to Damascus where Caliph Omar ordered that
all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said "they will either contradict the Koran, in which
case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." Therefore, the books and scrolls were taken
out of the library and distributed as fuel to the many bathhouses of the city. So enormous was the volume of
literature that it took six months for it all to be burnt to ashes heating the saunas of the conquerors.

The leader of the Moslem forces that took Egypt in 640AD was called 'Amr and it was he who was supposed to have asked Omar what to
do about the fabled library that he found himself in control of.

There are only a few sources that we need to examine. They are very late The first of the two late sources dates from the 12th century and is
written by Abd al Latif (died 1231) who, in his Account of Egypt while describing Alexandria, mentions of the ruins of the Serapeum. The
problems with this as historical evidence are enormous and insurmountable. He admits that the source of his information was rumour and the
fantasy about Aristotle does not bode well for the veracity of the rest of the piece.

In the thirteenth century the great Jacobite Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus (died 1286), called Abû 'l Faraj in Arabic, fleshes the
story out and includes the famous epigram about the Koran. Again there is no clue as to where he found the story but it seems to have been
one doing the rounds among Christians living under the dominion of the Moslems. Gregory is happy to record plenty of far fetched tales
about omens and monstrosities so we must treat this story with the greatest suspicion. As it is not even included in the original version of his
history but only in the Arabic version that he translated and abridged himself very late in life, he may not have known the story when he first
put pen to parchment. In The Vanished Library, Canfora mentions a Syriac manuscript published in Paris at the end of the nineteenth century
by François Nau. It was written by a Christian monk in the ninth century and details the conversation between John and Caliph Omar. After
help from email correspondents, I have finally been able to find this elusive document in its French translation and ascertained that it makes no
mention of any library and appears to be an example of a theological dialogue between two representative individuals. In other words it is not
historical and has no pretensions to be.

The verdict on Omar

The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the
Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the
prospect of the library taking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends
such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not
burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in
the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand
of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this
time, we can dismiss it as a legend.


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http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm
Another good link:
http://www.greece.org/alexandria/library/index.htm


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Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:27:29 pm
Helios

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Christianity and Pagan Literature
Introduction

One thing that everyone thinks they know about early Christians is that they went around and burnt down libraries and anything else they felt
threatened by. For a 'fact' that is so widely believed, there is remarkably little evidence around. When challenged the best that most people
can do is mention the Christians who destroyed the Great Library of Alexandria but as I have established in this article, that is itself a myth.
That has not stopped authors like Carl Sagan in Cosmos and others who really ought to know better, from recycling it to make anti-Christian
points.

After finding the example most commonly given was untrue, I decided to launch an in-depth inquiry into the two related questions of what has
happened to the majority of the corpus of ancient writing and whether the Christian contribution to their preservation has been positive or
negative. This survey only covers the early church and the period through the Dark Ages so it does not examine the work of medieval
inquisitors or later church authorities. I hope to look at these areas at a later date but for the moment my conclusions are as follows:


Indiscriminate destruction of ancient literature by institutional Christianity never occurred;

There was no attempt to suppress pagan writing per se;

On a few occasions, pagan tracts specifically targeted against Christianity were condemned but others have been preserved;

Suppression of heretical Christian writing was widespread;

Magical and esoteric works were treated in exactly the same way as they were under the pagan Emperors which was not very
sympathetic;

With some exceptions, respect for pagan learning was widespread among Christians;

Survival of classical literature is almost entirely due to the efforts of Christian monks laboriously copying out texts by hand.


Burning down libraries

The idea of deliberating setting fire to a repository of knowledge appals us in a way that few other crimes can do. As demonstrated by the
astronomical sums paid at auction, we value art far more than human life. Tens of thousands of Afghans could die in war without anyone in
the West caring very much but, as the BBC reported, when the Taleban demolish a couple of ancient statues, there is world wide horror and
condemnation.

This attitude has meant that the false accusation that Edward Gibbon laid at the door of the Patriarch Theophilus in chapter 28 of his Decline
and Fall of the Roman Empire regarding the Great Library of Alexandria has been tremendously damaging to Christianity and is repeated
by every author with a bone to pick. But although we can establish that this library was not destroyed by a Christian mob, were there not
other ancient libraries that did suffer exactly that fate? The saying that there is no smoke without fire would seem to be exceedingly
appropriate in this case. I do not for a second claim to have analysed every ancient source but I have read a good deal and have only located
one example of deliberate destruction of an entire library recorded by the chroniclers.

The chronicler in question is John of Antioch about whom we know almost nothing. He was a Greek speaking Christian historian who may
have lived between the sixth and tenth centuries. All his works are lost and only fragments of his chronicle remain preserved in other places.
Among them is following passage from the great Byzantine encyclopaedia called the Suda in the article on the Emperor Jovian:

Emperor Hadrian had built a beautiful temple for the worship of his father Trajan which, on the orders of Emperor Julian, the
eunuch Theophilus had made into a library. Jovian, at the urging of his wife, burned the temple with all the books in it with his
concubines laughing and setting the fire.

Scholars believe that it is John of Antioch is being quoted. The Suda itself is full of snippets of information but it is treated with justifiable
caution by the scholars who have studied it. Certainly, it is very often wrong but usually not deliberately. Instead it just quotes earlier authors
uncritically and repeats their mistakes.

In favour of the verity of this story, John was from the city of Antioch where the alleged event happened and Jovian did visit there during the
few months of his reign. On the other hand, the problems with its credibility are extremely wide ranging.

1.The pagan historian Ammianus Marcellinus was actually with Jovian in Antioch and does not breath a word about any libraries (We
complains about their closure at other points in his narrative so was not uninterested in the question. We will return to other these
libraries later).
2.Although Jovian was a Christian he is recorded by the rhetor Themistius to have insisted on tolerance towards pagans.
3.The great pagan orator Libanius who lived in Antioch at the time and from whom we have speeches, lectures and no less than 1,500
letters, makes no mention of the library's destruction.
4.We have no other record of there being a temple of Trajan built by Hadrian in Antioch.
5.John was writing several hundred years after the library burning is supposed to have taken place but no one else mentions it. No
source for his story is given although some scholars like RC Blockley believe it may have come from Eunapius of Sardis who was a
near contemporary of Jovian and whom John of Antioch used as a source.

All the counter arguments depend on silence which demonstrates just how hard it is to prove a negative. On a personal note, the involvement
of Jovian's wife and concubines makes me feel the story is less convincing although the women could be later accretions. If we knew that
burning down libraries was the sort of thing that Jovian or other Christians actually did, we might have a case for believing it happened here
but as it is a single example it cannot be allowed to simply reinforce our prejudices. Still, this remains the only possible record of a library
being deliberately destroyed that I have been able to find in the sources and those who with an anti-Christian axe to grind should use this case
rather than Alexandria. Furthermore, it does illustrate that Christian writers were happy to report such things and repeat them from other
sources. Contrary to the allegations of many sceptics, the Christian scribes made no effort to censor this alleged misdeed of Jovian even
though he was a Christian emperor.


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Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:27:56 pm
Helios

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Magical and Prophetic Texts
That is not to say that many texts were not destroyed by the Christian Roman Emperors. We find that in fact they were, but often for reasons
completely divorced from theology and as a continuation of exactly the policy that had been followed by their pagan antecedents.

The relationship between the state and soothsayers in the Roman Empire was always ambiguous. Although some educated Romans like
Cicero viewed the practices of these people as so much hokum, many thought that astrology, augury and other forms of divination actually
worked. This made the practitioners dangerous people who had to be controlled. For this reason, they were either regulated by the state or,
if they worked unofficially, persecuted to ensure they stayed in line. Astrologers were regularly persecuted and expelled, from the first time in
139BC and throughout the duration of the Empire.

We learn from Suetonius that Augustus, as soon as he became High Priest and in charge of such matters, rounded up over 2,000 prophetic
books and burnt them. He left only the famous Sibylline books which he locked away in the Temple of Palatine Apollo so that they could
only be consulted by those who could be trusted to give an official interpretation.

We can read about the final fate of these esteemed but probably less than enlightening books in the elegy Concerning my Return by Rutilius
Namatianus who says of the Gothic general, Stilicho, who rose to be chief minister of the Western Emperors at the end of the fourth century
"Before this, he burnt the predictions which carried the power of the Sybil." Rutilius is writing shortly afterwards and hence he is nearly
contemporary. Consequently, it seems likely that Stilicho completed the job Augustus started in destroying prophetic texts.

Later on, John of Salisbury in the thirteenth century, tells us in his Policraticus a different story. He is really far too late to be reliable and
admits he is reporting a rumour, so is mentioned here only for completeness. According to John, the story was that Pope Gregory the Great
had burnt some books from the Palatine Library in yet another purge of prophetic writings. He writes:

As well as this, that man most holy teachings, Gregory, who poured forth a charming shower of proclamations and inspired the
whole church, not only ordered magical works out of his palace, but, as our ancestors hand down, gave to the fire writing
forbidden for reading - whatever was held by in the Temple of Apollo on the Palatine - works in which there were teachings
which seemed to reveal to men the mind of the heavens and supernatural prophecies.

Although there is nothing intrinsically unlikely about Pope Gregory continuing the policy of Rome's pagan rulers in destroying these apparently
subversive works we have seen the job appears to have been completed already. Some commentators have taken one or the other above
passages to mean that the entire Palatine Library was destroyed but this is an interpretation that the sources, even if they are reliable, cannot
sustain.

As far as the Emperors were concerned there was one kind of divination activity that was treated as the highest form of treason and punished
accordingly - that of predicting the future of the Imperial family. Ammianus Marcellinus gives the most terrifying account of how these things
could spiral out of control. He tells of reign of terror under the Emperor Valens reminiscent of Caligula or Commodus involving the show trial
and execution of dozens of people who were suspected of divination of this kind although the evidence came from others tortured into
confessions. The victims' books were seized and claimed to be prophetic texts although Ammianus says that in fact they were mainly
concerned with art and law. These books were burned and in the resulting panic many people destroyed their entire private libraries to
ensure they had no incriminating evidence in their homes.

In a further example, Diocletian is said by John of Antioch, again in the Suda, to have destroyed the esoteric works of the Egyptians on
alchemy and magic:

He also sought out the forbidden books by the ancient Egyptians concerning the alchemy of gold and silver and threw them to
the flames so that the confidence and spirit for rebellion would not be available to the Egyptians due to either the means of their
art or the amount of their wealth.

The story is again unsupported and unreliable but accurately reflects the reputation that Egypt had for being the repository of forbidden
knowledge as well as typical Roman policy toward magical texts.

The fact that Augustus and Diocletian were pagan Emperors and that Valens and Stilicho were Christians does not figure at all in the analysis
of these events. Certainly, although Constantine made Christianity the official religion, the Roman Empire remained just as much of a military
despotism as it ever was. It was not until Theodosius was reprimanded by Archbishop Ambrose that some of the Emperors' megalomaniac
proclivities were to be at all circumscribed by Christianity and even then, not by much.

The Christian church prior to the Middle Ages had a very healthy attitude towards magic and related subjects as it simply dismissed them as
superstition not worthy of attention. The episode in the Acts of the Apostles where the magicians destroy their own scrolls to show they
realise how useless they are is illustrative of this. The church would therefore have not particularly cared about such texts but as they were not
copying them either, very few have survived the ravages of time. In the early Renaissance, in many ways a far more superstitious time than the
Middle Ages, they again became popular, especially the Corpus Hermiticum and related works.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:28:20 pm
Helios

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Persecution of Christians
The Church History of Eusebius sometimes gives the impression that Christian martyrs were being slaughtered in their thousands for three
hundred years. Scholars today take a rather dim view of this idea and accept that persecution specifically aimed at Christians was both rare
and highly localised. Pliny's letter to Trajan appears to sum up the Roman attitude that hunting down Christians was not the done thing but
they were to be executed if they happened to be caught.

Late in the day, however, on the advice of his protégé Galerius, the Emperor Diocletian launched what is usually referred to as the Great
Persecution. It was a indeed a bloody affair that involved the suppression of literature as well as persons. Of course, it is unlikely that
Diocletian made any distinction between orthodox and heretic Christians. Eusebius and the Suda both mention that there was wide scale
destruction of Christian texts and some scholars such as Bruce Metzger believe it was so efficient that it explains why almost no pre 300AD
New Testament manuscripts survive. When the persecution finally came to an end the most pressing concern of Christians was what to do
about all the people who had recanted under the threat of the scaffold and now wanted to return to the church.

The last pagan Emperor was Julian who tried a much more subtle approach. He wanted to reinvigorate paganism so it could win the battle
for hearts and minds against Christianity. He wrote that his efforts to restore paganism were being seriously hampered by the charity and
good deeds of the Christians and in any case his two years on the throne were not sufficient to have much effect. He wrote to his friend
Arsacius, a Galatian pagan priest:

Why then do we think that this is sufficient and do not observe how the kindness of Christians to strangers, their care for the
burial of their dead, and the sobriety of their lifestyle has done the most to advance their cause? Each of these things, I think,
ought really to be practised by us.

Persecution by Christians

In the end the Roman Empire was not converted at the point of a sword but rather because quite soon anyone who wanted to get anywhere
had to be a Christian and hence people lost little time in becoming one. This was partly because most pagans were happy to become nominal
Christians and unlike earlier martyrs did not feel that any faith was worth dying for. Substituting the household gods for household saints was
not seen as a radical step and furthermore paganism had been becoming increasingly monotheistic (usually worshipping the sun) before the
advent of Christianity. The Bishop of Troy was happy to move between religions with a clean conscience as he could not really tell them
apart. Even pagan polemic aimed at Christians seems more concerned with how stupid and dirty they were than any immediate danger they
presented. Temples were quarried for their valuable marble although even today dozens still survive almost intact. A few were pulled down
by fanatical monks but it is the rarity of these events that makes them so noteworthy to the historians of the time.

In the one example I have been able to find of the persecution of pagans involving the destruction of their holy books, the chronicler John
Malalas says that during the reign of Justinian in the sixth century:

In that month of June during that persecution, pagans were arrested and paraded around. Their books were burnt in the ring for
animal shows together with pictures and statues of their loathsome gods.

Christianity was introduced to act as a unifying force in an increasingly fragmented Empire. This meant that it immediately became a political
matter and indeed it was politically important that Christianity was itself united. The idea of religion as civic duty was handed down from
centuries of pagan practice while Emperor Julian had already seen that the monolithic Christian creed had a marked advantage over his
disparate pagans whom he had tried to reform.

Luckily for the desired unity, orthodoxy had been fighting heretics for a couple of centuries already and with the full might of the Imperial state
behind them, they took this battle to its conclusion. In general, during the fourth and fifth centuries, the argument was reasonably civilised but
from time to time violence erupted or official coercion was used. Later on, methods became steadily more severe as heresy came to be seen
as a cancer at the heart of society until even the accusation of heresy could be used as a political weapon. If you want to find evidence of
Christians destroying manuscripts then it is here you should look.

The Theodosian Code, a law book that collects all the Imperial Decrees and was published by Theodosius II in the early fifth century is quite
explicit that the writings of certain heretics should be destroyed. Likewise, we find Pope Leo the Great ordering the burning of Manichean
writings in Rome after he had found how far they had penetrated into his church. There can be no doubt that heretical Christian texts were
lost in this way although the scale of destruction would have been quite modest. The idea of huge pyres of manuscripts burning in a city
square is pure myth. Most heretical works perished due to neglect in that after they wore out there was no one left to copy them. Heretics
would not have been able to afford expensive and long lasting vellum for their books so would instead have had to rely on fragile papyrus that
simply does not last.

It is the case that a few of the most forthright pagan attacks on Christianity were also targeted for suppression. Most famous is Porphyry's
Against the Christians. He was a pupil of the great neo Platonist, Plotinus, and wrote a massive work to combat the new religion. He was
particularly offended by the way it was taking over pagan philosophical ideas and turning them to its own ends. The book was condemned in
the fourth and fifth centuries but today we can still study Porphyry's arguments from the long quotations of his work found in Christian
refutations. Likewise, the arguments of other pagan apologists survive in works such as Origen's Against Celsus. On the other hand, Julian's
Against the Galilaeans, Eutropius's various insults, the works of Libanius and other works of late pagan polemic against Christianity have
been preserved by the very faith they were attacking.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:28:44 pm
Helios

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quote:
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The End of the Classical Age
By the fifth century learning in the Western Empire was rapidly decaying as barbarian hordes swept over the dying Roman civilisation.
Ammianus Marcellinus had complained in a rather rhetorical way that the libraries of Rome had been shut during his time in the mid forth
century. It is likely that they were transported with many other works of art and learning to the new capital of Constantinople being built on
the shore of the Bospherus. We hear that the Christian Emperor Constantius founded an centre of learning and a library there under
Themistius, the master of Rhetoric.

Whatever was left in Rome was destroyed during the sackings of 410AD by the Goths, in 455AD by the Vandals and many times thereafter.
Although most cities were ransacked and fell into ruin, the barbarians quite quickly converted to Christianity which meant that at least they
tended to spare book filled monasteries and churches from their depredations.

In Alexandria too, at the start of the fifth century, Orosius found that pagan temples, while still standing, had been emptied of their book . He
does not say where they were taken but Constantinople is again not unlikely. The Emperor Justinian is notorious for his closing the academy
of Athens in 529AD and causing the pagan teachers to flee to Persia, although they all came back a few years later and were allowed to
write and study unmolested. Meanwhile, John Philoponus, a philosophical master at Alexandria in the sixth century, found there was little
conflict between his work studying Aristotle and being a professing Christian. Indeed his religion seems to have led him to make some of the
most exciting advances in ancient natural philosophy.

The Loss of Literature

It has been claimed that about ten million words of classical Greek and one million words of classical Latin, excepting Christian works, have
come down to us. Of the former, two million words are the medical corpus of Galen alone, while of the later about a third is made up of the
surviving three quarters of the works of Cicero. In fact, whereas much classical Greek is technical and not of interest to the general reader,
nearly all preserved classical Latin is worth reading in its own right.

So just what proportion of ancient literature has been lost? This is difficult to answer but we can get a rough estimate from the size of ancient
libraries. Archaeology suggests that the biggest contained 20,000 or so scrolls and the Great Library of Alexandria itself is most reliably said
to have contained 40,000. On the other hand, all the extant pagan classical works would not fill much more than a thousand scrolls so we
have been left with about 5% of what might be found (barring repeat copies) in Rome. Of course, this does not tell us what people were
actually reading and we can get a better idea of this from the papyri retrieved from the sands of Egypt, especially at Oxyrynchus. Of the
Greek literary papyri that have been edited, a full third are scraps of Homer, a further third are from works familiar from the manuscript
tradition and the remainder are previously unknown. This suggests that roughly half of the most popular works (even excluding Homer) have
been preserved through the Dark Ages by the copying of manuscripts.

Literature was lost in two main ways - it either was not copied after the original version fell apart or it was the victim of disasters and war.
The latter cases were probably all too common and one would be hard pressed to find any Greek or Roman city that was not sacked or
pillaged at some point. On top of this we have to add natural disasters such as earthquakes, flood and accidental fire. Rome suffered many
times, as did Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Constantinople was wracked by frequent periods of civil unrest and fell in 1205 and 1453.
The later of these, when the Turks finally snuffed out the Byzantine Empire, is said to be the occasion of the loss of the last complete copy of
Diodorus Siculus's History.

But even without these downfalls, we can explain the loss of most ancient writing simply by noting that it was written on papyrus scrolls and
this is an exceedingly delicate medium that does not stand well to being handled. The document would require recopying before it fell to bits
and this was an extremely time consuming and expensive business. Not only that, once Egypt was conquered by the Arabs, papyrus was in
short supply and very much more expensive parchment had to be used instead. This was made from treated leather and many sheets were
needed to produce a good length book.

The shortage of both materials and personnel meant that choices had to be made about what would be copied and what would not be.
Although it is common today to hear people complain that the monks who did the work did not copy what interests us and instead what
interested them, this is simply anachronism and close to bigotry. They copied what they thought was important and worth the effort. That it
was more often Christian works of their own time that seemed relevant to their own lives, rather than works that were ancient even then,
should not surprise us. And nor should they be condemned by anyone who has not copied out the complete works of Shakespeare by hand
on real parchment (which lasts 30,000 years rather than the expected 1,000 for paper) on the off chance that CD-ROM technology does not
survive the apocalypse.

Some of the reasons that important literature disappeared are in fact very prosaic. The most important was language. When the Roman
Empire was at its height the educated classes could read both Latin and Greek but after the fourth century the two languages split on
geographical grounds with Greek completely dying out in Western Europe. In the East, Latin was first confined to the army and then
disappeared altogether. As late as the thirteenth century the humanist scholar Petrarch could bemoan in a letter to Nicolas Sygeros that he
was unable to read any of his collection of Greek manuscripts. Clearly, copying a manuscript that no one understands is not going to be a
priority so Latin in the East and Greek in the West was lost.

This is also the reason for the near total lack of scientific scholarship in Western Europe before the translations into Latin of the High Middle
Ages. There never was a scientific tradition in Latin, only popular writings like Pliny the Elder's Natural History. Once Greek died out, these
were all that anyone could read and the technical Greek works (apart from one or two like Plato's Timeaus that had already been translated
into Latin) were lost to the West.

Another major factor was the educational curriculum. In Byzantium, attic Greek was valued as a much finer form of literature than other
dialects. Consequently attic playwrights, orators and thinkers saw their works preserved while other writers were not copied. The most high
profile casualty was Menander who wrote comic plays in everyday Greek. He was once very popular but then his lower style fell out of
favour and not a single one of his plays survives in the manuscript tradition (luckily large portions of several of his plays have been found on
papyri in Egypt).

Palimpsests are another interesting case. The ruinous cost of parchment combined with its ability to withstand centuries of wear and tear
meant that it was frequently reused. The old writing was scrapped off and the new written over the top. However, the process left faint
images of the original text which later scholars have been able to read. Some important pagan works have been accidentally preserved in this
way such as part of Cicero's De Republica and the recently rediscovered Archimedes palimpsest. There is no evidence that the monks doing
the scrapping were deliberately targeting pagan texts although we may sometimes find their priorities unfortunate. The text they were
scrapping off had, itself, been transcribed by earlier Christians and a perusal of a manuscript catalogue (such as the British Library's on-line)
shows that in most cases the underlying material on a palimpsest is Christian as well. One of the earliest known bibles, the Codex Ephraemi
Rescriptus, had the sermons of Ephraemus written over the top of it.

In history and geography, many texts were lost because they were perceived to be out of date. Copying out Erastothenes' Geography
seemed a waste of time when everyone knew that Stabo's work, which is still extant, was better. Likewise, nearly all the earliest Byzantine
chronicles, like Julius Africanus are lost because they were considered to have been superseded by the later ones like Georgius Syncellus
which is still preserved.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:29:07 pm
Helios

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The Preservation of Literature
The preservation of what classical Latin works that we do possess was almost entirely down to the Christian church. It helped in a number of
ways:

1.It preserved the use of the Latin language and hence ensured that classical works could continue to be used and understood;
2.Its monks copied texts as they wore out. Not a single complete text survives from Roman times but instead those we possess were
recopied from the ninth century in monastery scriptoria.
3.As Christianity is a highly literary religion it had to ensure that enough people remained literate in order to use sacred texts. This
naturally spilled over into secular work as well.
4.The monastic libraries were safe havens for valuable and delicate manuscripts that Christian raiders (though not pagan ones like the
Vikings) generally left alone.

It might be claimed that as the Church was the only institution that contained people able to read and write it is hardly surprising that the Latin
that survived was in their hands. This misses the point. There is no evidence that the church was in any way jealous of its learning and anyone
who paid could have received an education. But among the upper class warriors of the Franks, Saxons and Goths there was simply no such
desire until Charlemagne encouraged them in the ninth century. For this reason, had the church not occupied its unifying, educational and
preserving role no other institution would have done so. The amount of classical Latin literature that has come down to us is a pitiful remnant
of what there once was, but we can think the church for what we have.

In the fifteenth century humanists (in the context the term simply means a classical scholar) like Poggio searched the libraries of the
monasteries seeking to acquire, by fair means and foul, copies of ancient works and by 1450 nearly all the classical Latin known today had
been recovered.

In the Eastern Empire there was no sudden collapse but instead a thousand year decay. This meant that learning was carried on for much
longer and something like ten times as much classical Greek survives as classical Latin. The amount that was still extant in the ninth century
when Photius compiled his Bibliography was considerably more than still known today. Unfortunately, Byzantium was hammered over the
next five hundred years by successive invasions by Turks and Normans who, between them, destroyed it utterly. As these disasters unfolded,
Byzantine learning, despite some brief revivals, shrunk so that it could not replace what the invaders took away. On the other hand, only a
tiny fraction of late Byzantine manuscripts have been edited and there remains that chance that substantial parts of earlier classical works have
been copied and remain to be discovered.

Of course, the Greek works that survive are those that the Christian Byzantines choose to preserve for us. Hence they give a very skewed
view of what Greek thought was actually like. For instance, we have seen that the medical works of Galen make up a full fifth of the entire
surviving classical Greek corpus. Add Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy and the mathematical works and we find that Christians were by far the most
keen on copying scientific and medical writings. The papyri from Egypt and epigraphical evidence show that this was not the concern of most
Greeks. In other words, we think Greeks were a rational lot because Christians were interested in their rational thought. Hence, the
preponderance of Greek science in the surviving corpus tells us that the Christians who preserved it were very interested in science - not that
the classical Greeks were. Oddly, Stoicism, the Greek philosophy that comes closed to Christianity is severely under represented as is
Epicurianism and Cynicism. And yet these three schools rejected much of reason and science, concentrating instead on ethical issues. We are
left with the strong impression that it was Christians who appreciated Greek science a whole lot more than the Greeks did.

The final destruction of Byzantium coincided with the Renaissance in the West. The extent to which the two events are linked has long been
debated but there is no doubt that the rediscovery of the Greek language by the humanists helped preserve much of the detritus left by the
loss of the Greek Empire. The conquering Ottoman Turks were also happy to let most of the Greek monasteries continue in peace and
discoveries were made in their dusty libraries well into the twentieth century.

Conclusion

Today we regret how much has been lost but we have been remarkably careless ourselves. Many classic television serials, such as Doctor
Who from the 1960s, have disappeared because at the time no one felt they were important enough to use up video tape for. Even more
tragically, large numbers of early movies like the second part of the incomparable Wedding March (1928) have been lost through
carelessness and the perishability of nitrate film (for further details see here). Some surviving classics were preserved in a single print. To
those of us who mourn the loss of classical literature this is a depressingly familiar story.

Further Reading

There are relatively few books about this subject that are not either Christian apologetics or atheist propaganda. Glenn Miller's summary is
informative from a Christian point of view while good examples of the later include the works of Joseph McCabe that can be found in the
Internet Infidels' Historical Library. While McCabe is worthless as scholarship, he certainly is a rollicking read. For my own article, I have
tried to track down the primary sources rather than use secondary works but the following, including some general references, have all been
helpful:

The Early Church - Henry Chadwick
The Beginnings of Western Science - David Lindberg
Libraries in the Ancient World - Lionel Casson
Themistius and the Imperial Court - John Vanderspoel
Dictionary of Scientific Biography
Oxford Classical Dictionary
Books for the Burning - Clarence Forbes (link to actual article)
http://www.bede.org.uk/literature.htm



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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:29:28 pm
rockessence

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Helios,
I especially enjoyed your : "Christianity and Pagan Literature" offering earlier. I imagine that the greatest part of it was oral, and the basis of ALL literature of course.


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:29:47 pm
Chronos

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Thank you again for picking this up, Helios.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:30:20 pm
Lochmodor
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Rate Member   posted 11-27-2004 10:51 AM                       
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Just tougth i would add this as a side note.
Hofburg in Wienna are reported too have a large collections of old writings, amoungs them also lot of Papyrus scrolls.

The collection of these writings migth have started as early as the 13 or 14 century-

But also here can things have gotten lost.
There are reports of fires both in the 14 century and as late as in 1992.

I have tried too find info but it seems unclear if any of the writings them selves has been damaged by this fires or not.

Anyway what i would like too know, are if those writings who still exists in Hofburg have been checked out and translated.

Can it still be answers too be found in some of these dokuments?????


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:30:40 pm
Chronos

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Lochmoder,
I would like to learn more about these writings myself. Hofburg kept many ancient artifacts at it, but not only did it fall victim to fire, but was probably also looted in the postwar period after World War II.

What sort of information do you think was stored in there?


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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:32:16 pm
 
Chronos

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Moving this up so I can find it and begin adding to it again later...

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:32:42 pm
Chronos

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Amazing. It's been over a year since I last added to this. Time flies...

Galen

Claudius Galenus of Pergamum (131-201 AD), better known as Galen, was an ancient Greek physician. His views dominated European medicine for over a thousand years.

Life

Galen was born in Pergamum (modern-day Bergama, Turkey), the son of Nicon, a wealthy architect. His interests were eclectic - agriculture, architecture, astronomy, astrology, philosophy - until he concentrated on medicine.

By the age of twenty he had become a therapeutes ("attendant" or "associate") of the god Asclepius in the local temple for four years. After his father's death in 148 or 149 he left to study abroad. He studied in Smyrna and Corinth and at Alexandria. He studied medicine for a total of twelve years. When he returned to Pergamum in 157, he worked as a physician in a gladiator school for three or four years. During this time he gained experience of trauma and wound treatment. He later regarded wounds as "windows into the body".

From 162 he lived in Rome where he wrote extensively, lectured and publicly demonstrated his knowledge of anatomy. He gained a reputation as an experienced physician and his practice had widespread clientele. One of them was the consul Flavius Boethius who introduced him to the court where he became a court physician to Emperor Marcus Aurelius. Later he also treated Lucius Verus, Commodus and Septimius Severus. Reputedly he spoke mostly Greek, which was a more respected language of medicine than Latin at the time. He briefly returned to Pergamum during 166-169.

Galen spent the rest of his life in the Imperial court, writing and experimenting. He performed vivisections of numerous animals to study the function of the kidneys and the spinal cord. His favorite subject was the barbary ape. Reportedly he employed twenty scribes to write down his words. In 191, fire in the Temple of Peace destroyed some of his records. His exact date of death has traditionally been placed around the year 200, based on a reference from the 10th century Suda Lexicon. Some, however, have argued for dates as late as 216.

Work and impact

Galen transmitted Hippocratic medicine all the way to the Renaissance. His On the Elements According to Hippocrates describes the philosopher's system of four bodily humours, which were identified with the four classical elements. He created his own theories from those principles. In turn, he mainly ignored Latin writings of Celsus.

Amongst Galen's own major works is a seventeen-volume On the Usefulness of the Parts of the Human Body. He also wrote about philosophy and philology. His collected works total twenty-two volumes.

Galen's own theories, in accord with Plato's, emphasized purposeful creation by a single Creator ("Nature" - Greek phusis) - a major reason why later Christian and Muslim scholars could accept his views. His fundamental principle of life was pneuma (air, breath) that later writers connected with the soul. Pneuma physicon (animal spirit) in the brain took care of movement, perception, and senses. Pneuma zoticon (vital spirit) in the heart controlled blood and body temperature. "Natural spirit" in the liver handled nutrition and metabolism.

Galen expanded his knowledge partly by experimenting with live animals. One of his methods was to publicly dissect a living pig and cut its nerve bundles one at a time. Eventually he cut a laryngeal nerve (now also known as Galen's Nerve) and the pig stopped squealing. He tied the ureters of living animals to show that urine comes from the kidneys. He severed spinal cords to demonstrate paralysis.

From the modern viewpoint, Galen's theories were partially correct, partially flawed. He demonstrated that arteries carry blood, not air and made first studies about nerve functions, and the brain and heart. He also argued that the mind was in the brain, not in the heart as Aristotle had claimed.

However, much of Galen's understanding is flawed from the modern point of view. He did not recognize blood circulation and thought that venous and arterial systems were separate. This view did not change until William Harvey's work in the 17th century. Since most of his knowledge of anatomy was based on dissection of pigs, dogs, and Barbary apes, he also assumed that rete mirabile, a blood vessel plexus of ungulates, also existed in the human body. He also resisted the idea of tourniquets to stop bleeding and vigorously propagated blood letting as a treatment.

Galen's authority dominated medicine all the way to the 16th century. Experimenters' disciples did not bother to experiment and studies of physiology and anatomy stopped - Galen had already written about everything. Blood letting became a standard medical procedure. Vesalius presented the first serious challenge to his hegemony.

Much of medieval Islamic medicine drew on the works of the ancient Greeks, especially those elucidated by Galen, such as his expanded humoral theory. Most of Galen's Greek writings were first translated to the Syriac language by Nestorian monks in the university of Gundishapur, Persia. Muslim scholars primarily in Baghdad translated the Syriac manuscripts into Arabic, along with many other Greek classics. They became some of the main sources for Arabian scholars such as Avicenna, Rhazes, and Maimonides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:37:07 pm
Chronos

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Archimedes

Archimedes (Greek: Αρχιμηδης ) (287 BC–212 BC) was an ancient mathematician, physicist, engineer, astronomer and philosopher born in the Greek seaport colony of Syracuse. He is considered by some math historians to be one of history's greatest mathematicians, along with possibly Newton, Gauss and Euler.

Discoveries and inventions

The Archimedes' screw lifts water to higher levels for irrigationArchimedes became a popular figure as a result of his involvement in the defense of Syracuse against the Roman siege in the First and Second Punic Wars. He is reputed to have held the Romans at bay with war machines of his own design; to have been able to move a full-size ship complete with crew and cargo by pulling a single rope[1]; to have discovered the principles of density and buoyancy, also known as Archimedes' principle, while taking a bath (thereupon taking to the streets naked calling "Eureka" - "I have found it!"); and to have invented the irrigation device known as Archimedes' screw.

He has also been credited with the possible invention of the odometer during the First Punic War. One of his inventions used for military defense of Syracuse against the invading Romans was the claw of Archimedes.

It is said that he prevented one Roman attack on Syracuse by using a large array of mirrors (speculated to have been highly polished shields) to reflect sunlight onto the attacking ships causing them to catch fire. This popular legend was tested on the Discovery Channel's MythBusters program. After a number of experiments, whereby the hosts of the program tried burning a model wooden ship with a variety of mirrors, they concluded that the enemy ships would have had to have been virtually motionless and very close to shore for them to ignite, an unlikely scenario during a battle. A group at MIT subsequently performed their own tests and concluded that the mirror weapon was a possibility [2], although later tests of their system showed it to be ineffective in conditions that more closely matched the described siege [3].

Archimedes was killed by a Roman soldier in the sack of Syracuse during the Second Punic War, despite orders from the Roman general, Marcellus, that he was not to be harmed. The Greeks said that he was killed while drawing an equation in the sand; engrossed in his diagram and impatient with being interrupted, he is said to have muttered his famous last words before being slain by an enraged Roman soldier: Μὴ μοὺ τους κύκλους τάραττε ("Don't disturb my circles"). This story was sometimes told to contrast the Greek high-mindedness with Roman ham-handedness; however, it should be noted that Archimedes designed the siege engines that devastated a substantial Roman invasion force, so his death may have been out of retribution.

In creativity and insight, he exceeded any other mathematician prior to the European Renaissance. In a civilization with an awkward numeral system and a language in which "a myriad" (literally "ten thousand") meant "infinity", he invented a positional numeral system and used it to write numbers up to 1064. He devised a heuristic method based on statistics to do private calculation that we would classify today as integral calculus, but then presented rigorous geometric proofs for his results. To what extent he actually had a correct version of integral calculus is debatable. He proved that the ratio of a circle's perimeter to its diameter is the same as the ratio of the circle's area to the square of the radius. He did not call this ratio π but he gave a procedure to approximate it to arbitrary accuracy and gave an approximation of it as between 3 + 1/7 and 3 + 10/71. He was the first, and possibly the only, Greek mathematician to introduce mechanical curves (those traced by a moving point) as legitimate objects of study. He proved that the area enclosed by a parabola and a straight line is 4/3 the area of a triangle with equal base and height. (See the illustration below. The "base" is any secant line, not necessarily orthogonal to the parabola's axis; "the same base" means the same "horizontal" component of the length of the base; "horizontal" means orthogonal to the axis. "Height" means the length of the segment parallel to the axis from the vertex to the base. The vertex must be so placed that the two horizontal distances mentioned in the illustration are equal.)


In the process, he calculated the oldest known example of a geometric series with the ratio 1/4:

If the first term in this series is the area of the triangle in the illustration then the second is the sum of the areas of two triangles whose bases are the two smaller secant lines in the illustration. Essentially, this paragraph summarizes the proof. Archimedes also gave a quite different proof of nearly the same proposition by a method using infinitesimals (see "How Archimedes used infinitesimals").

He proved that the area and volume of the sphere are in the same ratio to the area and volume of a circumscribed straight cylinder, a result he was so proud of that he made it his epitaph.

Archimedes is probably also the first mathematical physicist on record, and the best before Galileo and Newton. He invented the field of statics, enunciated the law of the lever, the law of equilibrium of fluids and the law of buoyancy. (He famously discovered the latter when he was asked to determine whether a crown had been made of pure gold, or gold adulterated with silver; he realized that the rise in the water level when it was immersed would be equal to the volume of the crown, and the decrease in the weight of the crown would be in proportion; he could then compare those with the values of an equal weight of pure gold). He was the first to identify the concept of center of gravity, and he found the centers of gravity of various geometric figures, assuming uniform density in their interiors, including triangles, paraboloids, and hemispheres. Using only ancient Greek geometry, he also gave the equilibrium positions of floating sections of paraboloids as a function of their height, a feat that would be taxing to a modern physicist using calculus.

Apart from general physics he was an astronomer, and Cicero writes that the Roman consul Marcellus brought two devices back to Rome from the sacked city of Syracuse. One device mapped the sky on a sphere and the other predicted the motions of the sun and the moon and the planets (i.e., an orrery). He credits Thales and Eudoxus for constructing these devices. For some time this was assumed to be a legend of doubtful nature, but the discovery of the Antikythera mechanism has changed the view of this issue, and it is indeed probable that Archimedes possessed and constructed such devices. Pappus of Alexandria writes that Archimedes had written a practical book on the construction of such spheres entitled On Sphere-Making.

Archimedes' works were not widely recognized, even in antiquity. He and his contemporaries probably constitute the peak of Greek mathematical rigour. During the Middle Ages the mathematicians who could understand Archimedes' work were few and far between. Many of his works were lost when the library of Alexandria was burnt (twice) and survived only in Latin or Arabic translations. As a result, his mechanical method was lost until around 1900, after the arithmetization of analysis had been carried out successfully. We can only speculate about the effect that the "method" would have had on the development of calculus had it been known in the 16th and 17th centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:37:34 pm
Chronos

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Writings by Archimedes

On the Equilibrium of Planes (2 volumes)
This scroll explains the law of the lever and uses it to calculate the areas and centers of gravity of various geometric figures.
On Spirals
In this scroll, Archimedes defines what is now called Archimedes' spiral. This is the first mechanical curve (i.e., traced by a moving point) ever considered by a Greek mathematician. Using this curve, he was able to square the circle.
On the Sphere and The Cylinder
In this scroll Archimedes obtains the result he was most proud of: that the area and volume of a sphere are in the same relationship to the area and volume of the circumscribed straight cylinder.
On Conoids and Spheroids
In this scroll Archimedes calculates the areas and volumes of sections of cones, spheres and paraboloids.
On Floating Bodies (2 volumes)
In the first part of this scroll, Archimedes spells out the law of equilibrium of fluids, and proves that water around a center of gravity will adopt a spherical form. This is probably an attempt at explaining the observation made by Greek astronomers that the Earth is round. Note that his fluids are not self-gravitating: he assumes the existence of a point towards which all things fall and derives the spherical shape. One is led to wonder what he would have done had he struck upon the idea of universal gravitation.
In the second part, a veritable tour-de-force, he calculates the equilibrium positions of sections of paraboloids. This was probably an idealization of the shapes of ships' hulls. Some of his sections float with the base under water and the summit above water, which is reminiscent of the way icebergs float, although Archimedes probably was not thinking of this application.
The Quadrature of the Parabola
In this scroll, Archimedes calculates the area of a segment of a parabola (the figure delimited by a parabola and a secant line not necessarily perpendicular to the axis). The final answer is obtained by triangulating the area and summing the geometric series with ratio 1/4.
Stomachion
This is a Greek puzzle similar to Tangram. In this scroll, Archimedes calculates the areas of the various pieces. This may be the first reference we have to this game. Recent discoveries indicate that Archimedes was attempting to determine how many ways the strips of paper could be assembled into the shape of a square. This is possibly the first use of combinatorics to solve a problem.
Archimedes' Cattle Problem
Archimedes wrote a letter to the scholars in the Library of Alexandria, who apparently had downplayed the importance of Archimedes' works. In these letters, he dares them to count the numbers of cattle in the Herd of the Sun by solving a number of simultaneous Diophantine equations, some of them quadratic (in the more complicated version). This problem is one of the famous problems solved with the aid of a computer. The solution is a very large number, approximately 7.760271 × 10206544 (See the external links to the Cattle Problem.)
The Sand Reckoner
In this scroll, Archimedes counts the number of grains of sand fitting inside the universe. This book mentions Aristarchus' theory of the solar system, contemporary ideas about the size of the Earth and the distance between various celestial bodies. From the introductory letter we also learn that Archimedes' father was an astronomer.
"The Method"
In this work, which was unknown in the Middle Ages, but the importance of which was realised after its discovery, Archimedes pioneered the use of infinitesimals, showing how breaking up a figure in an infinite number of infinitely small parts could be used to determine its area or volume. Archimedes did probably consider these methods not mathematically precise, and he used these methods to find at least some of the areas or volumes he sought, and then used the more traditional method of exhaustion to prove them. This particular work is found in what is called the Archimedes Palimpsest. Some details can be found at how Archimedes used infinitesimals.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:38:49 pm
 
Chronos

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Quotes about Archimedes
"Perhaps the best indication of what Archimedes truly loved most is his request that his tombstone include a cylinder circumscribing a sphere, accompanied by the inscription of his amazing theorem that the sphere is exactly two-thirds of the circumscribing cylinder in both surface area and volume!" (Laubenbacher and Pengelley, p. 95)1
"...but regarding the work of an engineer and every art that ministers the needs of life as ignoble and vulgar, he devoted his earnest efforts only to those studies the subtlety and charm of which are not affected by the claims of necessity."
Plutarch, possibly explaining why Archimedes produced no writings that describe precisely the design of his inventions. It has also been suggested that this statement merely reflects the prejudices of Plutarch and his peers, influenced by Platonic beliefs in pure reasoning and deduction over experimentation and inductive processes. Given Archimedes's prodigious output as an engineer, Plutarch's often quoted comments on him seem hard to believe by modern historians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 01, 2008, 01:42:19 pm
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The Royal Library of Alexandria in Alexandria, Egypt was once the largest in the world. It is generally assumed to have been founded at the beginning of the 3rd century BC, during the reign of Ptolemy II of Egypt, after Ptolemy's father had raised what would become the first part of the library complex, the temple of the Muses—the Musaeum (whence we get museum).

At its peak, the Royal Library is believed to have held anywhere between 40,000 to 700,000 books and was initially organized by Demetrius Phalereus. It has been reasonably established that the library was destroyed by fire yet, to this day, the details of the destruction or destructions remain a lively source of controversy.

The Bibliotheca Alexandrina was inaugurated in 2003 near the site of the old library

Overview

One story holds that the Library was seeded with Aristotle's own private collection, through one of his students, Demetrius Phalereus. Another story concerns how its collection grew so large: By decree of Ptolemy III of Egypt, all visitors to the city were required to surrender all books and scrolls in their possession; these writings were then swiftly copied by official scribes. The originals were put into the Library, and the copies were delivered to the previous owners. While encroaching on the rights of the traveler or merchant, it also helped to create a reservoir of books in the relatively new city.

The Library's contents were likely distributed over several buildings, with the main library either located directly attached to or close to the oldest building, the Museum, and a daughter library in the younger Serapeum, also a temple dedicated to the god Serapis. Carlton Welch provides the following description of the main library based on the existing historical records:

In this reconstruction, the doors from the Museum lead to storage rooms for the Library. Most of the books were probably stored in armaria, closed, labeled cupboards that were still used for book storage in medieval times.
A covered marble colonnade connected the Museum with an adjacent stately building, also in white marble and stone, architecturally harmonious, indeed forming an integral part of the vast pile, dedicated to learning by the wisdom of the first Ptolemy in following the advice and genius of Demetrios of Phaleron. This was the famous Library of Alexandria, the "Mother" library of the Museum, the Alexandriana, truly the foremost wonder of the ancient world. Here in ten great Halls, whose ample walls were lined with spacious armaria, numbered and titled, were housed the myriad manuscripts containing the wisdom, knowledge, and information, accumulated by the genius of the Hellenic peoples. Each of the ten Halls was assigned to a separate department of learning embracing the assumed ten divisions of Hellenic knowledge as may have been found in the Catalogue of Callimachus of Greek Literature in the Alexandrian Library, the farfamed Pinakes. The Halls were used by the scholars for general research, although there were smaller separate rooms for individuals or groups engaged in special studies.

In 2004 a Polish-Egyptian team claimed to have discovered a part of the library while excavating in the Bruchion region. The archaeologists claimed to have found thirteen "lecture halls", each with a central podium. Zahi Hawass, president of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities said that all together, the rooms uncovered so far could have seated 5000 students.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_alexandria

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:11:59 pm
Destruction of the Great Library

One of the reasons so little is known about the Library is that it was lost centuries after its creation. All that is left of many of the volumes are tantalizing titles that hint at all the history lost from the building's destruction. Few events in ancient history are as controversial as the destruction of the Library, as the historical record is both contradictory and incomplete. Not surprisingly, the Great Library became a symbol for knowledge itself, and its destruction was attributed to those who were portrayed as ignorant barbarians, often for purely political reasons.

Much of the debate rests on a different understanding of what constituted the actual Library. Large parts of the Library were likely decentralized, so it is appropriate also to speak of the "Alexandrian libraries." Both the Serapeum, a temple and daughter library, and the Museum itself existed until about AD 400. Only if one believes the Museum to be distinct from the Great Library, an event of destruction prior to that point becomes plausible.

One account of such an event of destruction concerns Julius Caesar. During his invasion of Alexandria in 48 BC–47 BC, Caesar set the enemy fleet in the harbor on fire. Some historians believe that this fire spread into the city and destroyed the entire library. While this interpretation is now a minority view, it is based on several ancient sources, all of which were written at least about 150 years after the destruction supposedly took place. Edward Parsons has analyzed the Caesar theory in his book The Alexandrian Library and summarizes the sources as follows:

A final summary is interesting: of the 16 writers, 10—Caesar himself, the author of The Alexandrian War, Cicero, Strabo, Livy (as far as we know), Lucan, Florus, Suetonius, Appian, and even Athenaeus—apparently knew nothing of the burning of the Museum, of the library, or of books during Caesar's visit to Egypt; and six tell of the incident as follows:

Seneca (AD 49), the first writer to mention it (and that nearly 100 years after the alleged event), definitely says that 40,000 books were burned.
Plutarch (c. 117) says that the fire destroyed the great Library.
Aulus Gellius (123–169) says that during the "sack" of Alexandria 700,000 volumes were all burned.
Dio Cassius (155–235) says that storehouses containing grain and books were burned, and that these books were of great number and excellence.
Ammianus Marcellinus (390) says that in the "sack" of the city 70,000 volumes were burned.
Orosius (c. 415), the last writer, singularly confirms Seneca as to number and the thing destroyed: 40,000 books.
Of all the sources, Plutarch is the only one to refer explicitly to the destruction of the Library. Plutarch was also the first writer to refer to Caesar by name. Ammianus Marcellinus' account seems to be directly based on Aulus Gellius because the wording is almost the same.

The majority of ancient historians, even those strongly politically opposed to Caesar, give no account of the alleged massive disaster. Cecile Orru argued in Antike Bibliotheken (2002, edited by Wolfgang Höpfner) that Caesar could not have destroyed the Library because it was located in the royal quarter of the city, where Caesar's troops were fortified after the fire (which would not have been possible if the fire had spread to that location).

Furthermore, the Library was a very large stone building and the scrolls were stored away in armaria (and some of them put in capsules), so it is hard to see how a fire in the harbor could have affected a significant part of its contents. Lastly, modern archaeological finds have confirmed an extensive ancient water supply network which covered the major parts of the city, including, of course, the royal quarter.

The destruction of the library is attributed by some historians to a period of civil war in the late 3rd century AD — but we know that the Museum, which was adjacent to the library, survived until the 4th century. There are also allegations dating to medieval times that claim that Caliph Omar, during an invasion in the 7th century, ordered the Library to be destroyed, but these claims are generally regarded as a Christian attack on Muslims, and include many indications of fabrication, such as the claim that the contents of the Library took six months to burn in Alexandria's public baths. The legend of Caliph Omar's destruction of the library provides the classical example of a dilemma: Omar is reported to have said that if the books of the library did not contain the teachings of the Qur'an, they were useless and should be destroyed; if the books did contain the teachings of the Qur'an, they were superfluous and should be destroyed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_alexandria

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:13:39 pm
Evidence for the existence of the Library after Caesar

As noted above, it is generally accepted that the Museum of Alexandria existed until c. AD 400, and if the Museum and the Library are considered to be largely identical or attached to one another, earlier accounts of destruction could only concern a small number of books stored elsewhere. This is consistent with the number given by Seneca, much smaller than the overall volume of books in the Library. So under this interpretation it is plausible that, for example, books stored in a warehouse near the harbor were accidentally destroyed by Caesar, and that larger numbers cited in some works have to be considered unreliable -- misinterpretations by the medieval monks who preserved these works through the Middle Ages, or deliberate forgeries.


Inscription referring to the Alexandrian library, dated AD 56Even if one considers the Museum and the Library to be very much separate, there is considerable evidence that the Library continued to exist after the alleged destruction. Plutarch, who claimed the Great Library was destroyed (150 years after the alleged incident), in Life of Antony describes the later transfer of the second largest library to Alexandria by Mark Antony as a gift to Cleopatra. He quotes Calvisius as claiming "that [Mark Antony] had given her the library of Pergamus, containing two hundred thousand distinct volumes", although he himself finds Calvisius' claims hard to believe. In "Einführung in die Überlieferungsgeschichte" (1994, p. 39), Egert Pöhlmann cites further expansions of the Alexandrian libraries by Caesar Augustus (in the year AD 12) and Claudius (AD 41-54). Even if the most extreme allegations against Caesar were true, this raises the question of what happened to these volumes.

The continued existence of the Library is also supported by an ancient inscription found in the early 20th century, dedicated to Tiberius Claudius Balbillus of Rome (d. AD 56). As noted in the "Handbuch der Bibliothekswissenschaft" (Georg Leyh, Wiesbaden 1955):

"We have to understand the office which Ti. Claudius Balbillus held [...], which included the title 'supra Museum et ab Alexandrina bibliotheca', to have combined the direction of the Museum with that of the united libraries, as an academy."
Athenaeus (c. AD 200) wrote in detail in the Deipnosophistae about the wealth of Ptolemy II (309-246 BC) and the type and number of his ships. When it came to the Library and Museum, he wrote: "Why should I now have to point to the books, the establishment of libraries and the collection in the Museum, when this is in every man's memory?" Given the context of his statement, and the fact that the Museum still existed at the time, it is clear that Athenaeus cannot have referred to any event of destruction -- he considered both facilities to be so famous that it was not necessary for him to describe them in detail. We must therefore conclude that at least some of the Alexandrian libraries were still in operation at the time.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:14:05 pm
Destruction of the pagan temples by Theophilus]

In the late 4th century, persecution of pagans by Christians had reached new levels of intensity. Temples and statues were destroyed throughout the Roman Empire, pagan rituals forbidden under punishment of death, and libraries closed. In 391, Emperor Theodosius ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request. Socrates Scholasticus provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria:

(Illustration here)

5th century scroll which illustrates the destruction of the Serapeum by Theophilus (source: Christopher Haas: Alexandria in late antiquity, Baltimore 1997)"Demolition of the Idolatrous Temples at Alexandria, and the Consequent Conflict between the Pagans and Christians."

"At the solicitation of Theophilus bishop of Alexandria the emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum. [...] Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples. These were therefore razed to the ground, and the images of their gods molten into pots and other convenient utensils for the use of the Alexandrian church; for the emperor had instructed Theophilus to distribute them for the relief of the poor. All the images were accordingly broken to pieces, except one statue of the god before mentioned, which Theophilus preserved and set up in a public place; 'Lest,' said he, 'at a future time the heathens should deny that they had ever worshiped such gods.'"
The Serapeum housed part of the Library, but it is not known how many books were contained in it at the time of destruction. Notably, Paulus Orosius admitted in his History against the pagans: "[T]oday there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen, and, when these temples were plundered, these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our time, which, indeed, is a true statement." Some or all of the books may have been taken, but any books left in the Serapeum at the time would have been destroyed when it was razed to the ground.

As for the Museum, Mostafa El-Abbadi writes in Life and Fate of the ancient Library of Alexandria (Paris 1992):

"The Mouseion, being at the same time a 'shrine of the Muses', enjoyed a degree of sanctity as long as other pagan temples remained unmolested. Synesius of Cyrene, who studied under Hypatia at the end of the fourth century, saw the Mouseion and described the images of the philosophers in it. We have no later reference to its existence in the fifth century. As Theon, the distinguished mathematician and father of Hypatia, herself a renowned scholar, was the last recorded scholar-member (c. 380), it is likely that the Mouseion did not long survive the promulgation of Theodosius' decree in 391 to destroy all pagan temples in the City."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:14:39 pm
Conclusions

There is a growing consensus among historians that the Library of Alexandria likely suffered from several destructive events, but that the destruction of Alexandria's pagan temples in the late 4th century was probably the most severe and final one. The evidence for that destruction is the most definitive and secure. Caesar's invasion may well have led to the loss of some 40,000-70,000 scrolls in a warehouse adjacent to the port (as Luciano Canfora argues, they were likely copies produced by the Library intended for export), but it is unlikely to have affected the Library or Museum, given that there is ample evidence that both existed later.

Civil wars, decreasing investments in maintenance and acquisition of new scrolls and generally declining interest in non-religious pursuits likely contributed to a reduction in the body of material available in the Library, especially in the fourth century. The Serapeum was certainly destroyed by Theophilus in 391, and the Museum and Library may have fallen victim to the same campaign.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:16:46 pm
Other libraries of the ancient world

The libraries of Ugarit (in modern Syria), ca 1200 BC, include diplomatic archives, literary works and the earliest privately-owned libraries yet recovered.
The library of King Ashurbanipal, in Nineveh (near modern Mosul, Iraq)— Considered to be "the first systematically collected library", it was rediscovered in the 19th century. While the library had been destroyed, many fragments of the ancient cuneiform tables survived, and have been reconstructed. Large portions of the Epic of Gilgamesh were among the many finds.
The Villa of the Papyri, in Herculaneum, Italy
— The only library known to have survived from classical antiquity, this villa's large private collection may have once belonged to Julius Caesar's father-in-law, Lucius Calpurnius Piso. Buried by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius that destroyed the town in 79 AD. Rediscovered in 1752, around 1800 carbonized scrolls were found in the villa's top storey. Using modern techniques such as multi-spectral imaging, previously illegible or invisible sections on scrolls that have been unrolled are now being deciphered. It is possible that more scrolls remain to be found in the lower, unexcavated levels of the villa.
At Pergamum (in what is now Turkey), the Attalid kings formed the second best Hellenistic library after Alexandria, founded in emulation of the Ptolemies. When the Ptolemies stopped exporting papyrus, partly because of competitors and partly because of shortages, the Pergamenes invented a new substance to use in codices, called pergamum or parchment after the city. This was made of fine calfskin, a predecessor of vellum and paper.
Caesarea Palaestina, located in present-day Israel, had a great early Christian library. Through Origen and the scholarly priest Pamphilus, the theological school of Caesarea won a reputation for having the most extensive ecclesiastical library of the time, containing more than 30,000 manuscripts: Gregory, Basil the Great, Jerome and others came to study there.
The great seats of learning in ancient India, namely Takshasila, Nalanda, Vikramashila, Kanchi and other universities also maintained vast libraries of palm leaf manuscripts of various subjects, ranging from theology to astronomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_alexandria



Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:17:07 pm
Chronos

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And, of course, Merry Christmas to everyone.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:17:27 pm
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Merry Christmas back atcha.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:17:45 pm
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Chronos has asked that I move his topic to "Other Ancient Mysteries".

You will find it there.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:18:08 pm
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Wow, the Library of Alexandria is a pretty cool topic. If there were other ancient sources about Atlantis, chances are, they would be found there.

Chances are, the oldest Greek copies of Plato's wrirings were there, too. If they actually did locate the site where itr once stood, they might still be able to find some of them.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:19:10 pm
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quote:
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Intellectual life in Roman Alexandria
The discovery of lecture halls at Kom Al-Dikka has generated popular interest, hasty conclusions and a number of revelations. Jill Kamil assesses the evidence


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The Polish mission at Kom Al-Dikka in Alexandria has made several exciting finds over the years, but their latest discovery hard on the heels of the establishment of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina has set tongues buzzing.

Grzegorz Majcherek, director of the Polish-Egyptian mission which has been excavating at Kom Al-Dikka for the past 40 or more years, insists that overzealous journalists have rather too hastily linked this latest discovery in Alexandria to the ancient library.

"In fact, the newly-excavated complex of lecture halls brings us no closer to determining the actual position of the famous library of antiquity," he says.

Majcherek admits that no physical traces of the renowned institution had yet come to light. "We are still unable to answer questions of key importance such as where it originally stood, and what was its ultimate fate," he says.

Archaeology has tried in vain to come to terms with the great Alexandria Library, which remains a living myth even though it is claimed that the Bibliotheca Alexandrina is built on its original site. Ever since Abdel-Rahman Al- Jabarti, better known as Al-Falaki (the astronomer), began to dig systematically for the ancient ruins in Alexandria in the late 19th century, a search for the library has proved a challenge matched only by that for the tomb of Alexander the Great. In both cases, archaeology has far been defeated.

However, Majcherek hastened to add, the discovery Al- Dikka did throw new light on key issues such as the nature of academic life in the Alexandria of late antiquity. It also provided astonishing evidence that the intellectual vitality and tradition of Alexandrian science -- as symbolised by the library and mouseion -- continued well into the seventh century. "Alexandrian scholarship did not end with the murder of Hypatia, the famous female philosopher and mathematician," Majcherek says. "The lecture halls in fact bridged the gap between classical antiquity with the emerging Arab civilisation."

The Roman ruins at Kom Al-Dikka, which lie at the very heart of Alexandria not far from the intersection between Nabi Daniel and Hurriya streets, have yielded surprises ever since the Polish mission in Egypt was first asked to evaluate the antiquities that came to light when an artillery position built by Napoleon's troops was being cleared for development. It soon became clear that the site was far too important to be sacrificed to progress. Excavations commenced, and although the area constitutes the only fragment of the ancient urban layout, discoveries made there season after season have been accompanied by impressive reconstruction.

Among the finds were monumental Roman red-brick baths dating from the fourth century and closely associated with an elevated cistern that supplied water, as well as a small theatre with marble tiers of the same period. Both buildings opened to the west into a large open space lined with columns, the agora of late antique Alexandria.

The eastern side of the agora underwent reconstruction in the sixth century, with meeting rooms being built within the colonnade. The theatre was also radically transformed: a dome was constructed over the tiers of steps, thus creating a huge lecture hall in line with surprisingly well preserved smaller chambers.

More recent excavations have revealed a vast complex of well-preserved lecture halls of late Roman (fifth to seventh century) date. Some of them had been explored in the 1880s, but their total number has now grown to 13 and Majcherek says that only now has their purpose become apparent. The auditoria have similar dimensions to, and stretch along, the theatre portico, which is also the eastern colonnade of a large public square in the centre of the city. In all the rooms rows of stepped benches run along the walls in a horseshoe shape, with an elevated seat for the lecturer at the rounded end. When new rows of seats appeared in place of the lateral parodoi (passageway separating the stage from the auditorium), the classical semicircular plan of the cavea (auditorium) was changed into a horseshoe-shaped arrangement that archaeologists immediately recognised as similar to that found in the auditoria or lecture halls. The discoveries have shed new light on the function of the theatre, which was excavated back in the 1960s.

The rebuilding on antiquity appears to have been carried out to fulfil the need to adapt to a new function, which was to provide an assembly hall for meetings and lectures, seating a larger audience. Estimates of the capacity of the total number of auditoria, which are estimated to number 20 in all, run at several hundred students, which, incidentally, is the estimated capacity of the theatre structure.

This discovery has caused great excitement, since it has become clear that the Polish mission has actually put a finger on the very hub of intellectual life in late Roman Alexandria. The important issue now, according to Majcherek, is to understand what exactly this complex of auditoria represented. He claims that the entire evidence so far indicates that we are dealing with an academic institution that operated in late antique Alexandria. The central location of the complex in the ancient town, and the characteristic arrangement of particular halls, corroborates the conclusions drawn on their function.

Interestingly, all the halls line the back wall of the portico, which is in itself a monumental setting for the structures. These are rectangular and follow the same orientation, but differ in size. Five are located directly to the north of the theatre and are approximately of the same dimensions -- their length running in the range from nine to 12 metres. All five of the halls are bordered to the east by a long casing wall that separates the auditoria from an area that had already been abandoned and had become a dumping ground for rubbish and debris.

The main differences observed in the halls lying nearer to the northern end of the portico, according to Majcherek, is that while one of the auditoria shows the same characteristics as described above, another, which adjoined it on the south, demonstrates an entirely different plan. It appears to suggest a function quite unlike a lecture hall in that it departs from the described scheme not only in orientation, but also in the internal arrangement. Instead of benches lining three of the walls, there are two distinct tribunes rising high on two opposite walls and, separately, benches inside the apse, very much like those in ancient churches.

Majcherek admits it is difficult to say for certain whether the structure was yet another auditorium. "Perhaps it was rather an ecclesiastical building, a small church or chapel, that was still part of the complex as a whole," he says. However, the absence of evidence of an altar weakens this hypothesis. Even a summary review of known church plans from Egypt reveals no close analogies although, interestingly, churches with a similar layout of benches in the presbytery are known from Jordan and Palestine.

Majcherek points out two distinctive features of all the halls. One is that in some cases the central seat ends with an ordinary block of stone somewhat elevated above the neighbouring seats, and in others with a seat of monumental form with separate steps leading up to it. The other is that almost all the halls have a low pedestal projecting above the floor level, always in the centre of the room opposite the prominently positioned main seat, and usually a stone block covered with plaster -- in one case a marble capital was used for this purpose. Majcherek says these two features are of key importance in identifying the function of the halls. "The central seat undoubtedly served for the important person heading the gathering, and what comes to mind are associations with a lecturer's 'chair', while the pedestal would appear to have been used by students during their oratorical presentations," he says.

The date of the abandonment and destruction of the lecture halls poses no problem. In all the halls investigated, graves of the earliest, eighth-century phase of the Muslim cemetery are recorded, in some cases cut into the pavement or benches of the auditorium. Thus, the auditoria were not abandoned earlier than the late seventh century. This is significant, according to Majcherek, especially in view of evidence that the nearby bath complex was in all likelihood destroyed in consequence of the Persian invasion [in 619 AD] and was never rebuilt. "That being the case, we can be sure that our baths were not heated with the books from the library -- and put an end to the persistent black legend that places blame on Amr Ibn Al-As for its destruction."

Indeed, the lecture halls appear to have survived all the political tribulations of the first half of the seventh century and continued in use for some time afterwards. Certain evidence for this comes from an Arab inscription on one of the pedestals dating from the very beginning of the ninth century. The grand square at the crossroads of the two main arteries of the ancient town were also mentioned in early Arab sources, corresponding perfectly with the topography of Kom Al-Dikka. The location of the complex of auditoria near a square of monumental proportions suggests special status, further emphasised by the nearby presence of imperial baths. This entire urban district encompassing a vast square, baths, theatre and, finally, a set of municipal lecture halls, deserves serious consideration as the proper centre of the social life of Alexandria in late antiquity, and gradually taking over the role of the Ptolemaic gymnasium.

Majcherek points out that while surviving biographies such as the Vita Severi by Zacharias of Mithylene and the Vita Isidori by Damascios, as well as letters and other literary sources, provide a vivid and colourful picture of the academic life of the epoch, none of these records gives topographical references that might help identify the complex. "The richness of historical sources is unfortunately still balanced by archaeological ignorance," he says. "[Kom Al- Dikka] might well be university but we shall have to wait for the results of further excavations before making more specific and univocal conclusions".
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:20:11 pm
Brooke

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   posted 12-22-2005 01:46 AM                       
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Wow.
Guess the Christians did do the library after all.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:20:31 pm
Brooke

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   posted 12-22-2005 02:35 AM                       
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It would be difficult finding anything since they were supposed to have built another building on top of it.

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"The most incomprehensible thing about our universe is that it can be comprehended." - Albert Einstein

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:21:10 pm
Riven

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  posted 12-22-2005 01:06 PM                       
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Wishing you a Merry Christmas also Chronos..

Hope you've been a good boy for Santa. :)

Thanks for your much appreciated wisdom and hard work Chronos.

This will be a great Christmas for us to remember. :)

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Avila_Atlantis_II_Ocean_View_Riven_05.jpg

The Myth, no longer is.

Merry Christmas.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:22:04 pm
Chronos

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   posted 12-22-2005 03:26 PM                       
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Riven, define, "good." ;)

Actually, thank you for all your hard work. I would hate to think of this forum without you.

Maybe somewhere in the next world, the Library of Alexandria still exists, and we'll all meet there someday, and it will answer every last one of our questions.

Happy New Year to everyone, too.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:22:27 pm
Riven

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  posted 12-23-2005 01:03 AM                       
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Thanks Chronos.

Yes, those Romans were clever weren't they.

Actualy, I think it does still exist.

We just need to get all the books back, that is, if they're not in the Oxyrynchus "Garbage".

I still believe most of those books are out there.

Personaly, I view this garbage as the "scapegoat" for the conformists to continue conforming also. 

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, dazzle them with vaca de madre.

Sad, but true.

As for "Good", well Chronos, we all know how fond the Gods, Heroes, and Myths were of Women. 

That kinda Good. Man and Woman.

What else is there? 

Spread the Light. 

Peace be with you.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:22:50 pm
Riven

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  posted 12-23-2005 02:28 AM                       
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Sometimes I wonder Chronos,
using GOOGLE EARTH,
and looking WEST of the Great Pyramid
to the Roash hills of birth,
appear a magnificient labyrinth of lines.

Further left, you'll see
large Circular lines so divine,
arranged as such, a library would
to preserve the age of time. 

Tis tru to know the Rose line
to the sun of shadow and light
can a man walk upon the labyrinth
with a book held tight in his might.

and he shall call his book,The Book of Thoth-Riv.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Roash%20Labyrinth_Thoth%20Roseline_Riven05.jpg

[ 12-23-2005, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:23:10 pm
 
Sarah

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   posted 12-24-2005 03:58 AM                       
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Hmm, I don't get the riddle but believe there must be some answer within the lines. Then, I haven't got Google Earth yet.

Is it free, and, if so, how much of a difference does it make?

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:23:40 pm
Sarah

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   posted 12-24-2005 04:02 AM                       
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Wishing Chronos & Riven, Valerie, Brig & Smiley, also a Merry Christmas.

Brooke, I wished you a Merry Christmas in another thread.

I'm making my rounds right now.

[ 12-24-2005, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: Sarah ]

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:24:10 pm
Sarah

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   posted 12-24-2005 04:04 AM                       
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Long live the Libray of Alexandria. It lives on in our hearts anyway.

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:24:34 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 12-25-2005 11:46 AM                       
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Faith: "The Crusaders have been made out repeatedly to be the villains in this war, but you can just as easily see their whole participation as a move to insure their security.

The Muslim world was advancing on the west at that time and unless they gathered together and made war, they would not have been turned back.

And almost all the Muslm states were converted at the point of a sword anyway."


My Response

Faith,

Gosh! Security? Is that what they're teaching in school these days?

The Muslims had advanced into Spain, where they built great cities, wonders of architecture, and and founded large universities that taught mathematics and astronomy... two fields that had been all but abandoned in the rest of Europe. They also preserved the writings of Aristotle in arabic... knowledge of Aristotle (and most greek Philosophy) had been lost to the western world after the Pope ordered the burning of the Library at Alexandria.

Most Europeans showed little interest in Moorish Spain. The purpose of the Crusades was to liberate the land that where Christ had been put to the cross. They eventually beseiged and then entered the city of Jerusalem. Once inside (in the words of E.H. Gombrich (A Little History of the World, Yale University Press,2005), "they behaved neither like knights or Christians. They massacred all the Muslims and committed hideous atrocities."

Something good did come out of the Crusades. While ignoring Muslim accomplishments in nearby Spain, Christians discovered Arab culture --their buildings, sense of beauty, mathematics -- in the distant orient. Eventually much of this knowledge was taken back to Europe. The books of Aristotle were translated from Arabic into Latin and Europeans rediscovered a world of knowledge that had once belonged to them, but which had been held in safekeeping by Arabs for many centuries.

Security? The Crusades had as much to do with security as the war in Iraq has to do with 9/11.

Merry Christmas!
George Erikson

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com

[ 12-25-2005, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: George Erikson ]
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:24:55 pm
+Faith+

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   posted 12-25-2005 04:16 PM                       
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Hi George Erikson,

I respectfully disagree. There's no question the Crusaders committed their atrocities, they did. The point is, the Muslimns committed their atrocities as well, but it's more popular these days to simply blame the Christians.

As for the advances in science the Muslims made, well, yes, at the time they were a little more advanced than the west, but by the Renaissance, the west had caught up and has been ahead ever since. Civilizations ebb and flow. The mere fact that there even was a Library of Alexandria can testify to that.

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:25:49 pm
 
+Faith+

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   posted 12-25-2005 04:23 PM                       
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George,

You also mentioned security. It's also fashionable to look at the Crusades as an isolated event and paint the Crusaders simply as religious zealots. It's actually more complicated than that.

Here is a timeline if events that Ishtar posted under the Crusades topic that explains all the events that came prior to them between the two cultures. You'll notice that for most of the prior five hundred years before that, the Muslims were the aggressors:

Timeline of the Crusades: Before the Crusades 350 - 1095
0355 After removing a Roman temple from the site (possibly the Temple of Aphrodite built by Hadrian), Constantine I has the Church of the Holy Sepulcher constructed in Jerusalem. Built around the excavated hill of the Crucifixion, legend has it that Constantine's mother Helena discovered the True Cross here.
0613 Persians capture Damascus and Antioch.
0614 Persians sack Jerusalem. damaging the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in the process.
0633 Muslims conquer Syria and Iraq.
0634 - 0644 Umar (c. 0591 - 0644) reigns as the second caliph.
0635 Muslims begin the conquest of Persia and Syria.
0635 Arab Muslims capture the city of Damascus from the Byzantines.
August 20, 0636 Battle of Yarmuk (also: Yarmuq, Hieromyax): Following the Muslim capture of Damascus and Edessa, Byzantine Emperor Heraclius organizes a large army which manages to take back control of those cities. However, Byzantine commander, Baänes is soundly defeated by Muslim forces under Khalid ibn Walid in a battle in the valley of the Yarmuk River outside Damascus. This leaves all of Syria open to Arab domination.
0637 The Arabs occupy the Persian capital of Ctesiphon. By 0651, the entire Persian realm would come under the rule of Islam and continued its westward expansion.
0637 Syria is conquered by Muslim forces.
0637 Jerusalem falls to invading Muslim forces.
0638 Caliph Umar I enters Jerusalem.
0639 Muslims conquer Egypt and Persia.
0641 Islam spreads into Egypt. The Catholic Archbishop invites Muslims to help free Egypt from Roman oppressors.
0641 Under the leadership of Abd-al-Rahman, Muslims conquer southern areas of Azerbaijan, Daghestan, Georgia, and Armenia.
0641 Under the leadership of Amr ibn al-As, Muslims conquer the Byzantine city of Alexandria in Egypt. Amr forbids the looting of the city and proclaims freedom of worship for all. According to some accounts, he also has what was left of the Great Library burned the following year. Al-As creates the first Muslim city in Egypt, al-Fustat, and builds there the first mosque in Egypt.
0644 Muslim leader Umar dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman, a member of the Umayyad family that had rejected Muhammad's prophesies. Rallies arise to support Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, as caliph. Uthman launches invasions to the west into North Africa.
0649 Muawiya I, a member of the Umayyad family, leads a raid against Cyprus, sacking the capital Salamis-Constantia after a short siege and pillaging the rest of the island.
0652 Sicily is attacked by Muslims coming out of Tunisia (named Ifriqiya by the Muslims, a name later given to the entire continent of Africa).
0653 Muawiya I leads a raid against Rhodes, taking the remaining pieces of the Colossus of Rhodes (one of the Seven Wonders of the ancient world) and shipping it back to Syria to be sold as scrap metal.
0654 Muawiya I conquers Cyprus and stations a large garrison there. The island would remain in Muslim hands until 0966.
0655 Battle of the Masts: In one of the only Muslim naval victories in the entire history of Islam, Muslim forces under the command of Uthman bin Affan defeat Byzantine forces under Emperor Constant II. The battle takes place off the coast of Lycia and is an important stage in the decline of Byzantine power.
0661 - 0680 Mu'awiya, founder of the Umayyad dynasty, becomes the caliph and moves the capital from Mecca to Damascus.
0662 Egypt fell to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates until 868 CE. A year prior, the Fertile Crescent and Persia yielded to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates, whose rule lasted until 1258 CE and 820 CE, respectively.
0667 Sicily is attacked by Muslims coming out of Tunisia.
0668 First Siege of Constantinople: This attack lasts off and on for seven years, with the Muslim forces generally spending the winters on the island of Cyzicus, a few miles south of Constantinople, and only sailing against the city during the spring and summer months. The Greeks are able to fend off repeated attacks with a weapon desperately feared by the Arabs: Greek Fire. It burned through ships, shields, and flesh and it could not be put out once it started. Muawiyah has to send emissaries to Byzantine Emperor Constans to beg him to let the survivors return home unimpeded, a request that is granted in exchange for a yearly tribute of 3,000 pieces of gold, fifty slaves, and fifty Arab horses.
0669 The Muslim conquest reaches to Morocco in North Africa. The region would be open to the rule of the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates until 800 CE.
0672 Muslims under Mauwiya I capture the island of Rhodes.
0674 Arab conquest reaches the Indus River.
August 23, 0676 Birth of Charles Martel (Charles the Hammer) in Herstal, Wallonia, Belgium, as the illegitimate son of Pippin II. Serving as Mayor of the Palace of the kingdom of the Franks, Charles would lead a force of Christians that turn back a Muslim raiding party near Poitiers (or Tours) which, according to many historians, would effectively halt the advance of Islam against Christianity in the West.
0677 Muslims send a large fleet against Constantinople in an effort to finally break the city, but they are defeated so badly through the Byzantine use of Greek Fire that they are forced to pay an indemnity to the Emperor.
0680 Birth of Leo III the Isaurian, Byzantine Emperor, along the Turkish-Syrian border in the Syrian province of Commagene. Leo's tactical skills would be responsible for turning back the second Arab Muslim siege of Constantinople in 0717, shortly after he is elected emperor.
0688 Emperor Justinian II and Caliph al-Malik sign a peace treaty making Cyprus neutral territory. For the next 300 years, Cyprus is ruled jointly by both the Byzantines and the Arabs despite the continuing warfare between them elsewhere.
0691 Birth of Hisham, 10th caliph of the Umayyad Dynasty. It is under Hisham that Muslim forces would make their deepest incursions into Western Europe before being stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 0732.
0698 Muslims capture Carthage in North Africa.
0700 Muslims from Pamntelleria raid the island of Sicily.
0711 With the further conquest of Egypt, Spain and North Africa, Islam included all of the Persian empire and most of the old Roman world under Islamic rule. Muslims began the conquest of Sindh in Afghanistan.
April 0711 Tariq ibn Malik, a Berber officer, crosses the strait separating Africa and Europe with a group of Muslims and enters Spain (al-Andalus, as the Muslims called it, a word is etymologically linked to "Vandals"). The first stop in the Muslim conquest of Spain is at the foot of a mountain that comes to be called Jabel Tarik, the Mountain of Tarik. Today it is known as Gibraltar. At one time the Berbers had been Christians but they recently converted in large numbers to Islam after the Arab conquest of North Africa.
July 19, 0711 Battle of Guadalete: Tariq ibn Ziyad kills King Rodrigo (or Roderic), Visigoth ruler of Spain, at the Guadalete River in the south of the Iberian peninsula. Tariq ibn Ziyad had landed at Gibraltar with 7,000 Muslims at the invitation of heirs of the late Visigoth King Witica (Witiza) who wanted to get rid of Rodrigo (this group includes Oppas, the bishop of Toledo and primate of all Spain, who happens to be the brother of the late king Witica). Ziyad, however, refuses to turn control of the region back over to the heirs of Witica. Almost the entire Iberian peninsula would come under Islamic control by 0718 CE.
0712 Muslim governor of Northern Africa Musa ibn Nusayr follows Tariq ibn Ziyad with an army of 18,000 as reinforcements for the conquest of Andalusia. Musa's father had been a Catholic Yemenite studying to be a priest in Iraq when he was captured in Iraq by Khalid, the "Sword of Islam," and forced to choose between conversion or death. This invasion of Iraq had been one of the last military orders given by Muhammed before his death.
0714 Birth of Pippin III (Pippin the Short) in Jupille (Belgium). Son of Charles Martel and father of Charlemagne, in 0759 Pippin would capture Narbonne, the last Muslim stronghold in France, and thereby drive Islam out of France.
0715 By this year just about all of Spain is in Muslim hands. The Muslim conquest of Spain only took around three years but the Christian reconquest would require around 460 years (it might have gone faster had the various Christian kingdoms not been at each other' throats much of the time). Musa's son, Abd el-Aziz, is left in charge and makes his capital the city of Seville, where he married Egilona, widow of king Rodrigo. Caliph Suleiman, a paranoid ruler, would have el-Aziz assassinated and sends Musa into exile in his native Yemen village to live out his days as a beggar.
0716 Lisbon is captured by Muslims.
0717 Cordova (Qurtuba) becomes the capital of Muslim holdings in Andalusia (Spain).
0717 Leo the Isaurian, born along the Turkish-Syrian border in the Syrian province of Commagene, revolts against the usurper Theodosius III and assumes the throne of the Byzantine Empire.
August 15, 0717 Second Siege of Constantinople: Taking advantage of the civil unrest in the Byzantine Empire, Caliph Sulieman sends 120,000 Muslims under the command of his brother, Moslemah, to launch the second siege of Constantinople. Another force of around 100,000 Muslims with 1,800 galleys soon arrives from Syria and Egypt to assist. Most of these reinforcements are quickly destroyed with Greek Fire. Eventually the Muslims outside Constantinople begin to starve and, in the winter, they also begin to freeze to death. Even the Bulgarians, usually hostile to the Byzantines, send a force to destroy Muslim reinforcements marching from Adrianopolis.
August 15, 0718 Muslims abandon their second siege of Constantinople. Their failure here leads to the weakening of the Umayyad government, in part because of the heavy losses. It is estimated that of the 200,000 soldiers who besieged Constantinople, only around 30,000 made it home. Although the Byzantine Empire also sustains heavily casualties and loses most its territory south of the Taurus Mountains, by holding the line here they prevent a disorganized and militarily inferior Europe from having to confront a Muslim invasion along the shortest possible route. Instead, the Arabic invasion of Europe must proceed along the longer path across northern Africa and into Spain, a route which prevents quick reinforcement and ultimately proves ineffective.
0719 Muslims attack Septimania in southern France (so named because it was the base of operations for Rome's Seventh Legion) and become established in the region known as Languedoc, made famous several hundred years later as the center of the Cathar heresy.
July 09, 0721 A Muslim army under the command of Al-Semah and that had crossed the Pyrenees is defeated by the Franks near Toulouse. Al-Semah is killed and his remaining forces, which had previously conquered Narbonne, are forced back across the Pyrenees into Spain.
0722 Battle of Covadonga: Pelayo, (0690-0737) Visigoth noble who had been elected the first King of Asturias (0718-0737), defeats a Muslim army at Alcama near Covadonga. This is generally regarded as the first real Christian victory over the Muslims in the Reconquista.
0724 Hisham becomes the 10th caliph of the Umayyad Dynasty. It is under Hisham that Muslim forces make their deepest incursions into Western Europe before being stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 0732.
0724 Under the command of Ambissa, Emir of Andalusia, Muslim forces raid southern France and capture the cities of Carcassone and Nimes. Primary targets in these and other raids are churches and monasteries where the Muslims take away holy objects and enslave or kill all the clerics.
0725 Muslim forces occupied Nimes, France.
0730 Muslim forces occupy the French cities of Narbonne and Avignon.
October 10, 0732 Battle of Tours: With perhaps 1,500 soldiers, Charles Martel halts a Muslim force of around 40,000 to 60,000 cavalry under Abd el-Rahman Al Ghafiqi from moving farther into Europe. Many regard this battle as being decisive in that it saved Europe from Muslim control. Gibbon wrote: "A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Muhammed." Others, though, argue that the battle's importance has been exaggerated. The names of Tours, Poitiers, and Charles Martel do not appear in the Arab histories. They list the battle under the name Balat al-Shuhada, the Highway of Martyrs, and is treated as a minor engagement.
0735 Muslim invaders capture the city of Arles.
0737 Charles Martel sends his brother, Childebrand, to lay siege to Avignon and drive out the Muslim occupiers. Childebrand is successful and, according to records, has all the Muslims in the city killed.
0739 Already having retaken Narbonne, Beziers, Montpellier, and Nimes during the previous couple of years, Childebrand captures Marseille, one of the largest French cities still in Muslim hands.
June 08, 0741 Death of Leo III the Isaurian, Byzantine Emperor. Leo's tactical skills were responsible for turning back the second Arab Muslim siege of Constantinople in 0717, shortly after he was elected emperor.
October 22, 0741 Death of Charles Martel (Charles the Hammer) in at Quierzy (today the Aisne county in the Picardy region of France). As Mayor of the Palace of the kingdom of the Franks, Charles had led a force of Christians that turned back a Muslim raiding party near Poitiers (or Tours) which, according to many historians, effectively halted the advance of Islam against Christianity in the West.
April 04, 0742 Birth of Charlemagne, founder of the Frankish Empire.
0743 Death of Hisham, 10th caliph of the Umayyad Dynasty. It was under Hisham that Muslim forces made their deepest incursions into Western Europe before being stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 0732.
0750 The Arabian Nights, a compilation of stories written under the reign of the Abbasids, became representative of the lifestyle and administration of this Persian influenced government.
0750 - 0850 The Four Orthodox Schools of Islamic Law were established.
0750 The Abbasids assume control of the Islamic world (except Spain, which falls under the control of a descendant of the Umayyad family) and moved the capital to Baghdad in Iraq. The Abbasid Caliphate would last until 1258.
September 0755 Abd al-Rahman of the Umayyad dynasty flees to Spain to escape the Abbasids and would be responsible for creating the "Golden Caliphate" in Spain.
0756 The Emirate of Cordova is established by Umayyad refugee Abd al-Rahman I in order to revive the defeated Umayyad caliphate which had been destroyed in 0750 by the Abbasids. Cordova would become independent of the Abbasid Empire and represents the first major political division within Islam. The political and geographic isolation of the Cordova Caliphate would make it easier for Christians to decisively conquer it despite their failures elsewhere, although this would not be completed until 1492.
0759 Arabs lose the city of Narbonne, France, their furthest and last conquest into Frankish territory. In capturing this city Pippin III (Pippin the Short) ends the Muslim incursions in France.
0768 Pepin's son, Carolus Magnus (Charlemagne), succeeded his father and became one of the most important European rulers of medieval history.
September 24, 0768 Death of Pippin III (Pippin the Short) at Saint Denis. Son of Charles Martel and father of Charlemagne, in 0759 Pippin captured Narbonne, the last Muslim stronghold in France, and thereby drove Islam out of France.
0778 Charlemagne, King of the Franks and soon-to-be Holy Roman Emperor, is invited by a group of Arab leaders in northeastern Spain to attack Abd al-Rahman I, ruler of the Emirate of Cordova. Charlemagne obliges them, but is forced to retreat after only getting as far as Saragossa. It is during his march back through the Pyrenees that his forces are set upon by Basques. Among the many who die is the war leader Roland from Breton, killed in Roncevalles, whose memory has been preserved in the "Chanson de Roland," an important epic poem during the Middle Ages.
0785 The Great Mosque in Cordoba, in Muslim controlled Spain, was built.
0787 Danes invade England for the first time.
0788 Death of Abd al-Rahman I, founder of the Umayyad Emirate of Cordova. His successor is Hisham I.
0792 Hisham I, emir of Cordova, calls for a Jihad against the infidels in Andalusia and France. Tens of thousands from as far away as Syria heed his call and cross the Pyrennes to subjugate France. Cities like Narbonne are destroyed, but the invasion is ultimately hated at Carcassone.
0796 Death of Hisham I, emir of Cordova. His successor is his son, al-Hakam, who would keep up the jihad against the Christians but would also be forced to contend with rebellion at home.
0799 The Basques rise in revolt and kill the local Muslim governor of Pamplona.
0800 North Africa falls under the rule of the Aghlabi dynasty of Tunis, which would last until 0909 CE.
0800 - 1200 Jews experience a "golden age" of creativity and toleration in Spain under Moorish (Muslim) rule.
0800 Ambassadors of Caliph Harunu r-Rashid give keys to the Holy Sepulcher to the Frankish king, thus acknowledging some Frankish control over the interests of Christians in Jerusalem.
0801 Vikings begin selling slaves to Muslims.
0806 Hien Tsung becomes the Emperor of China. During his reign a shortage of copper leads to the introduction of paper money.
0813 Muslims attack the Civi Vecchia near Rome.
April 04, 0814 Death of Charlemagne, founder of the Frankish Empire.
0816 With the support of Moors, the Basques revolt against the Franks in Glascony.
0822 Death of Al-Hakam, emir of Cordova. He is succeeded by Abd al-Rahman II.
June 0827 Sicily is invaded by Muslims who, this time, are looking to take control of the island rather than simply taking away booty. They are initially aided by Euphemius, a Byzantine naval commander who is rebelling against the Emperor. Conquest of the island would require 75 years of hard fighting.
0831 Muslim invaders capture the Sicilian city of Palermo and make it their capital.
0835 Birth of Ahmad Ibn Tultun, founder of the Tulunid Dynasty in Egypt. Originally sent there as a deputy by the Abbasid Caliphate, Tultun will establish himself as an independent power in the region, extending his control as far north as Syria. It is under Tultun that the Great Mosque of Cairo is built.
0838 Muslim raiders sack Marseille.
0841 Muslim forces capture Bari, principle Byzantine base in southeastern Italy.
0846 Muslim raiders sail a fleet of ships from Africa up the Tiber river and attack outlying areas around Ostia and Rome. Some manage to enter Rome and damage the churches of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not until Pope Leo IV promises a yearly tribute of 25,000 silver coins do the raiders leave. The Leonine Wall is built in order to fend off further attacks such as this.
0849 Battle of Ostia: Aghlabid monarch Muhammad sends a fleet of ships from Sardinia to attack Rome. As the fleet prepares to land troops, the combination of a large storm and an alliance of Christian forces were able to destroy the Muslims ships.
0850 The Acropolis of Zimbabwe was built in Rhodesia.
0850 Perfectus, a Christian priest in Muslim Cordova, is executed after he refuses to retract numerous insults he made about the Prophet Muhammed. Numerous other priests, monks, and laity would follow as Christians became caught up in a zest for martyrdom.
0851 Abd al-Rahman II has eleven young Christians executed in the city of Cordova after they deliberately seek out martyrdom by insulting the Prophet Muhammed.
0852 Death of Abd al-Rahman II, emir of Cordova.
0858 Muslim raiders attack Constantinople.
0859 Muslim invaders capture the Sicilian city of Castrogiovanni (Enna), slaughtering several thousand inhabitants.
0863 Under Cyril (0826 - 0869) and Methodius (c. 0815 - 0885) the conversion of Moravia begins. The two brothers were sent by the patriarch of Constantinople to Moravia, where the ruler, Rostilav, decreed in 863 that any preaching done had to be in the language of the people. As a result, Cyril and Methodius developed the first usable alphabet for the Slavic tongue - thus, the Cyrillic alphabet.
0866 Emperor Louis II travels from Germany to southern Italy to battle the Muslim raiders causing trouble there.
0868 The Sattarid dynasty, whose rule would continue until 0930 CE, extended Muslim control throughout most of Persia. In Egypt, the Abbasid and Umayyad caliphates ended and the Egyptian-based Tulunid dynasty took over (lasting until 904 CE).
0869 Arabs capture the island of Malta.
0870 After a month-long siege, the Sicilian city of Syracuse is captured by Muslim invaders.
0871 King Alfred the Great of England created a system of government and education which allowed for the unification of smaller Anglo-Saxon states in the ninth and tenth centuries.
0874 Iceland is colonized by Vikings from Norway.
0876 Muslims pillage Campagna in Italy.
0879 The Seljuk Empire unites Mesopotamia and a large portion of Persia.
0880 Under Emperor Basil, the Byzantines recapture lands occupied by Arabs in Italy.
0884 Death of Ahmad Ibn Tultun, founder of the Tulunid Dynasty in Egypt. Originally sent there as a deputy by the Abbasid Caliphate, Tultun established himself as an independent power in the region, extending his control as far north as Syria. It is under Tultun that the Great Mosque of Cairo is built.
0884 Muslims invading Italy burn the monastery of Monte Cassino to the ground.
0898 Birth of Abd al-Rahman III, generally regarded as the greatest of the Umayyad caliphs in Andalusia. Under his rule, Cordova would become one of the most powerful centers of Islamic learning and power.
0900 The Fatimids of Egypt conquered north Africa and included the territory as an extension of Egypt until 0972 CE.
0900 Mayans emigrate to the Yucatan Peninsula.
0902 The Muslim conquest of Sicily is completed when the last Christian stronghold, the city of Taorminia, is captured. Muslim rule of Sicily would last for 264 years.
0905 The Tulunid Dynasty in Egypt is destroyed by an Abbasid army sent to reestablish control over the region of Egypt and Syria.
0909 Sicily came under the control of the Fatimids' rule of North Africa and Egypt until 1071 CE. From 0878 until 0909 CE, their rule of Sicily was uncertain.
0909 The Fatimid Dynasty assumes control of Egypt. Claiming descent from Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Muhammed, and Ali bin Abi Talib, the Fatimids would rule Egypt until being overthrown by the Auyybids and Saladin in 1171.
0911 Muslims control all the passes in the Alps between France and Italy, cutting off passage between the two countries.
0912 Abd al-Rahman III becomes the Umayyad Caliph in Andalusia.
0916 A combined force of Greek and German emperors and Italian city-states defeat Muslim invaders at Garigliano, putting Muslim raids in Italy to an end.
0920 Muslim forces cross the Pyrenees, enter Gascony, and reach as far as the gates of Toulouse.
0929 Abd al-Rahman III transforms the Emirate of Cordova into and independent caliphate no longer under even theoretical control from Baghdad.
0935 - 0969 The rule of Egypt was under the Ikhidid dynasty.
0936 The Althing, the oldest body of representative government in Europe, is established in Iceland by the Vikings.
0939 Madrid is recaptured from Muslim forces.
0940 Hugh, count of Provence, gives his protection to Moors in St. Tropez if they agree to keep the Alpine passes closed to his rival, Berenger.
c. 0950 Catholicism becomes prevalent and dominant religion throughout Europe.
0950 According to traditional historiography, Europe enters Dark Ages.
0953 Emperor Otto I sends representatives to Cordova to ask Caliph Abd al-Rahman III to call off some Muslim raiders who had set themselves up in Alpine passes and are attacking merchant caravans going in and out of Italy.
0961 Death of Abd al-Rahman III, generally regarded as the greatest of the Umayyad caliphs in Andalusia. Under his rule, Cordova became one of the most powerful centers of Islamic learning and power. He is succeeded by Abdallah, a caliph who would kill many of his rivals (even family members) and has captured Christians decapitated if they refuse to convert to Christianity.
0961 Under the command of general Nicephorus Phokas, the Byzantines recapture Crete from Muslim rebels who had earlier fled Cordova.
0965 Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus Phokas reconquers Cyprus from the Muslims.
0965 Grenoble is recaptured from the Muslims.
0969 The Fatimid dynasty (Shi'ite) takes Egypt from the Ikshidids and assumes the title of caliphate in Egypt until 1171 CE.
0969 Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus II Phocas reconquers Antioch (modern Antakya, capital of the province Hatay) from the Arabs.
0972 The Fatimids of Egypt conquer north Africa.
0972 The Muslims in the Sisteron district of France surrender to Christian forces and their leader asks to be baptized.
0981 Eric the Red is exiled from Iceland and settles in a new land he called Greenland in order to attract settlers.
0981 Ramiro III, king of Leon, is defeated by Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir (Almanzor) at Rueda and is forced to begin paying tribute to the Caliph of Cordova.
0985 Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir sacks Barcelona
0994 The monastery of Monte Cassino is destroyed a second time by Arabs.
0995 Japanese literary and artistic golden age begins under Emperor Fujiwara Michinaga (ruled 0995 - 1028).
July 03, 0997 Under the leadership of Almanzor, Muslim forces march out of the city of Cordova and head north to capture Christian lands.
August 11, 0997 Muslim forces under Almanzor arrive at the city of Compostela. The city had been evacuated and Almanzor burns it to the ground.
0998 Venice conquers the Adriatic port of Zara. The Venetians would eventually lose the city to the Hungarians and, in 1202, they offer a deal to soldiers of the Fourth Crusade: capture the city again for them in exchange for passage to Egypt.
c. 1000 Chinese perfect the production and use of gunpowder.
1000 The Seljuk (Saljuq) Turkish Empire is founded by an Oghuz Turkish bey (chieftain) named Seljuk. Originally from the steppe country around the Caspian Sea, the Seljuks are the ancestors of the Western Turks, present-day inhabitants of Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan.
August 08, 1002 Death of Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir, ruler of Al-Andalus, on the way back from raiding the Rioja region.
1004 Arab raiders sack the Italian city of Pisa.
1007 Birth of Isaac I Comnenus, Byzantine emperor. Founder of the dynasty of the Comneni, Isaac's government reforms may have helped the Byzantine Empire last longer.
1009 The Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is destroyed by Muslim armies.
1009 Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, founder of the Druze sect and sixth Fatimid Caliph in Egypt, orders the Holy Sepulcher and all Christian buildings in Jerusalem be destroyed. In Europe a rumor develops that a "Prince of Babylon" had ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulcher at the instigation of the Jews. Attacks on Jewish communities in cities like Rouen, Orelans, and Mainz ensue and this rumor helps lay the basis for massacres of Jewish communities by Crusaders marching to the Holy Land.
1009 Sulaimann, grandson of Abd al-Rahman III, returns over 200 captured fortresses to the Castilians in return for massive shipments of food for his army.
1012 Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, founder of the Druze sect and sixth Fatimid Caliph in Egypt, orders the destruction of all Christian and Jewish houses of worship in his lands.
1012 Berber forces capture Cordova and order that half the population be executed.
1013 Jews are expelled from the Umayyad Caliphate of Cordova, then ruled by Sulaimann.
1015 Arab Muslim forces conquer Sardinia.
1016 The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is partially destroyed by earthquakes.
1020 Merchants from Amalfi and Salerno are granted permission by the Egyptian Caliph to build a hospice in Jerusalem. Out of this would eventually grow The Order of Knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem (also known as: Knights of Malta, Knights of Rhodes, and most commonly as Knights Hospitaller).
1021 Caliph al-Hakim proclaimed himself to be divine and founded the Druze sect.
1022 Several Cathar heretics are discovered in Toulouse and put to death.
1023 Muslims expel the Berber rulers from Cordova and install Abd er-Rahman V as caliph.
1025 The power of the Byzantine Empire begins to decline.
1026 Richard II of Normandy leads a group of several hundred armed men on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land in the belief that the Day of Judgment had arrived. Turkish control of the region hampers their goals, however.
1027 The Frankish protectorate over Christian interests in Jerusalem is replaced by a Byzantine protectorate. Byzantine leaders begin the reconstruction of the Holy Sepulcher.
1029 Alp Arslan, "The Lion Hero," is born. Arslan is the son of Togrul Beg, conqueror of Baghdad who made himself ruler of the Caliphate, and great-grandson of Seljuk, founder of the Seljuk Turkish empire.
1031 The Moorish Caliphate of Córdoba falls.
1031 The emir of Aleppo has the Krak des Chevaliers contructed.
1033 Castile is retaken from the Arabs.
1035 The Byzantines make a landing in Sicily, but don't try to recapture the island from the Muslims.
1038 The Seljuk Turks become established in Persia.
1042 The rise of the Seljuk Turks begins.
1045 - 1099 1099 Life of Ruy Diaz de Vivar, known as El Cid (Arabic for "lord"), national hero of Spain. El Cid would become famous for his efforts to drive the Moors out of Spain.
May 18, 1048 Persian poet Umar Khayyam is born. His poem The Rubaiyat became popular in the West because of its use by Victorian Edward Fitzgerald.
1050 - 1200 The first agricultural revolution of Medieval Europe begins in 1050 CE with a shift to the northern lands for cultivation, a period of improved climate from 700 CE to 1200 CE in western Europe, and the widespread use and perfection of new farming devices. Technological innovations include the use of the heavy plow, the three-field system of crop rotation, the use of mills for processing cloth, brewing beer, crushing pulp for paper manufacture, and the widespread use of iron and horses. With an increase in agricultural advancements, Western towns and trade grow exponentially and Western Europe returns to a money economy.
1050 Duke Bohemond I (Bohemond Of Taranto, French Bohémond De Tarente), prince of Otranto (1089–1111) is born. One of the leaders of the First Crusade, Bohemond would be largely responsible for the capture of Antioch and he secures the title Prince of Antioch (1098 - 1101, 1103 - 04).
1050 Byzantine emperor Constantine IX Monomachos restores the complex of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem.
1054 A famine in Egypt forces al Mustansir, 8th Fatimid caliph, to seek food and other commercial assistance from Italy and the Byzantine Empire.
July 16, 1054 Great Schism: The Western Christian Church, in an effort to further enhance its power, had tried to impose Latin rites on Greek churches in southern Italy in 1052; as a consequence, Latin churches in Constantinople were closed. In the end, this leads to the excommunication of Michael Cerularius, patriarch of Constantinople (who in turn excommunicates Pope Leo IX). Although generally regarded as a minor event at the time, today it is treated as the final event that sealed the Great Schism between Eastern and Western Christianity.
1055 Seljuk Turks capture Baghdad.
1056 The Almoravid (al-Murabitun) Dynasty begins its rise to power. Taking the name "those who line up in defense of the faith," this is a group of fanatical Berber Muslims who would rule North Africa and Spain until 1147.
1061 Roger Guiscard lands at Sicily with a large Norman force and captures the city of Masara. The Norman reconquest of Sicily would require another 30 years.
1063 Alp Arslan succeeds his father, Togrul Beg, as ruler of the Baghdad Caliphate and the Seljuk Turks.
1064 The Seljuk Turks conquer Christian Armenia.
September 29, 1066 William the Conqueror invades England and claims the English throne at the Battle of Hastings. Because William is both the King of England and the Duke of Normandy, The Norman Conquest fuses French and English cultures. The language of England evolves into Middle English with an English syntax and grammar and a heavily French vocabulary.
1067 Romanus IV Diogenes becomes the Byzantine Emperor.
1068 Alp Arslan invades the Byzantine Empire and is repulsed by Romanus IV Diogenes over the course of three campaigns. Not until 1070, though, would the Turks be driven back across the Euphrates river.
1070 Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem from the Fatimids. Seljuk rule is not quite as tolerant as that of the Fatimids and Christian pilgrims begin returning to Europe with tales of persecution and oppression.
1070 Brother Gerard, a leader of the Benedictine monks and nuns who run the hospices in Jerusalem. beings to organize The Order of Knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem (also known as: Knights of Malta, Knights of Rhodes, and most commonly as Knights Hospitaller) as a more military force for the active protection of Christian pilgrims.
1071 Normans conquer the last Byzantine holdings in Italy.
1071 - 1085 Seljuk Turks conquer most of Syria and Palestine.
August 19, 1071 Battle of Manzikert: Alp Arslan leads an army of Seljuk Turks against the Byzantine Empire near Lake Van. Numbering perhaps as many as 100,000 men, the Turks take the fortresses of Akhlat and Manzikert before Byzantine Emperor Romanus IV Diogenes can respond. Although Diogenes is able to recapture Akhlat, the siege of Manzikert fails when a Turkish relief force arrives and Andronicus Ducas, an enemy of Romanus Diogenes, refuses to obey orders to fight. Diogenes himself is captured and released, but he would be murdered after his return to Constantinople. Partly because of the defeat at Manzikert and partly due to the civil wars following the murder of Digoenes, Asia Minor would be left open to Turkish invasion.
1072 Tancred of Hauteville is born. A grandson of Robert Guiscard and nephew of Bohemund of Taranto, Tancred would become a leader of the First Crusade and eventually regent of the Principality of Antioch.
December 15, 1072 Malik Shah I, son of Alp Arslan, succeeds his father as Seljuk Sultan.
1073 Seljuk Turks conquer Ankara.
July 1074 El Cid marries Jimena, niece of Alfonso IV of Castile and daughter of the Count of Oviedo.
1076 First recorded execution in England by the ax: the Earl of Huntingdon.
1078 Seljuk Turks capture Nicaea. It would change hands three more times, finally coming under control of the Turks again in 1086.
1079 Battle of Cabra: El Cid led his troops to a rout of Emir Abd Allah of Granada.
1080 Order of the Hospital of St. John is founded in Italy. This special order of knights was dedicated to guarding a pilgrim hospital, or hostel, in Jerusalem.
1080 An Armenian state is founded in Cilicia, a district on the southeastern coast of Asia Minor (Turkey), north of Cyprus, by refugees feeling the Seljuk invasion of their Armenian homeland. A Christian kingdom located in the midst of hostile Muslim states and lacking good relations with the Byzantine Empire, "Armenia Minor" would provide important assistance to Crusaders from Europe.
1081 - 1118 Alexius I Comnenus is Byzantine emperor.
1081 El Cid, now a mercenary because he had been exiled by Alfonso IV of Castile, enters the service of the Moorish king of the northeast Spanish city of Zaragosa, al-Mu'tamin, and would remain there for his successor, al-Mu'tamin II.
1082 Ibn Tumart, founder of the Amohad Dynasty, is born in the Atlas mountains.
1084 Seljuk Turks conquer Antioch, a strategically important city.
October 25, 1085 The Moors are expelled from Toledo, Spain, by Alfonso VI.
October 23, 1086 Battle of Zallaca (Sagrajas): Spanish forces under Alfonso VI of Castile are defeated by the Moors and their allies, the Almorivids (Berbers from Morocco and Algeria, led by Yusef I ibn Tashufin), thus preserving Muslim rule in al-Andalus. The slaughter of Spaniards was great and Yusef refused to abide by his agreement to leave Andalusia in the hands of the Moors. His intention was actually to make Andalusia an African colony ruled by the Almorivids in Morocco.
1087 After his crushing defeat at Zallaqa, Alfonso VI swallows his pride and recalls El Cid from exile.
September 13, 1087 Birth of John II Comnenus, Byzantine emperor.
1088 Patzinak Turks begin forming settlements between the Danube and the Balkans.
March 12, 1088 Urban II is elected pope. An active supporter of the Gregorian reforms, Urban would become responsible for launching the First Crusade.
1089 Byzantine forces conquer the island of Crete.
1090 Yusuf Ibn Tashfin, King of the Almoravids, captures Granada.
1091 The Normans recapture Sicily from the Muslims.
1091 Cordova (Qurtuba) is captured by the Almoravids.
1092 After the death of Seljuk Sultan (al-sultan , "the power") Malik Shah I, the capital of the Seljuks is moved from Iconjium to Smyrna and the empire itself dissolves into several smaller states.
May 1094 El Cid captures Valencia from the Moors, carving out his own kingdom along the Mediterranean that is only nominally subservient to Alfonso VI of Castile. Valencia would be both Christian and Muslim, with adherents of both religions serving in his army.
August 1094 The Almoravids from Morocco land near Cuarte and lay siege to Valencia with 50,000 men. El Cid, however, breaks the siege and forces the Amoravids to flee - the first Christian victory against the hard-fighting Africans.
November 18, 1095 Pope Urban II opens the Council of Clermont where ambassadors from the Byzantine emperor Alexius I Comnenus, asking help against the Muslims, were warmly received

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Posts: 159 | Registered: Dec 2005
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:27:20 pm
George Erikson
Member
Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 12-25-2005 07:10 PM                       
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+Faith+

Wow, that's a lot! History has turned out to be one damned event after another... most of it related to warfare. However, Europeans had more reason to fear Charlemagne than the Moors.

Quote: "There's no question the Crusaders committed their atrocities, they did. The point is, the Muslimns committed their atrocities as well, but it's more popular these days to simply blame the Christians."
Really?!! My take is that most people in this country believe that Muslims and their holy wars are more at fault than Christians. I do agree that there is plenty of blame to be laid on both sides!

Quote:
"0800 - 1200 Jews experience a "golden age" of creativity and toleration in Spain under Moorish (Muslim) rule." 400 years of religious tolerance under the Moors!!! No wonder the sciences and arts in Moorish Spain far outshone anything the rest of Europe was up to.

Peace on Earth. Goodwill to man.
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Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:27:39 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-26-2005 12:25 AM                       
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And a Merry Christmas to you Sarah, and also to our new member Faith.

Thank you.

Yes,Google Earth is free, and chances are, you will even be able to see the rooftop of your home!

It's a great program from Google Labs.

You are correct in my little poem being a riddle, which actualy started out from replying to Chronos.

His name worked so well into the riddle! 

When you have the program running, look to the left of Cairo and the pyramids to the labyrinth in Roash.

The strange circle top left, could have been a great library at one time also.

There was another such Labyrinth in Upper Egypt near Lake Moeris as well, which was said to be of magnificient size, and also "vanished".

Since we are talking about Libraries, they also contain books, so I thought I would add my theory of perhaps another way to find the hidden book of Thoth, much sought after for decades since Khufu's time around 2400.bC.

You'll also notice the "Rose Line" on the right side of my picture. This line comes from the two larger Pyramids of the Three, heading South,South West, lining up with 3 Islands in the Atlantic on the other side of Africa(Avila), Sao Tome being one of them.

In this general direction, comes the secrets of Egypt and the Book of The Dead.

It is also the way to Eden and the Sacred Isles of The Blest and Atlantis II.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Roash%20Labyrinth_Thoth%20Roseline_Riven05.jpg


As you can see, this line, lines up exactly with one of the "paths" on the labyrinth at the right side.

If this is correct, for it's just one of my theories for now, then according to the emerald tablets, there should be a "proper" way to take this path to the hidden book of Thoth. 

It would even be more fascinating, if those circular lines, upper left, was in fact also, an ancient library of wisdom for the Egyptians.


As for the Muslims, George and Faith, I wouldn't really attribute all those advancements to a "NEW" culture type.

Rather, to the people of India who migrated into Babylon to the Lands of Sumer Akkad around 3000.bC, and were the most populous in the times of Herodotus.

These Pakistani's have mathematical geniuses far back to roughly 1500-2000.bC.

Muslim, is nothing but a new religion.

Most knowledge came out of the "diversity" of Lower Egypt.

For all you know, Jesus Christ, could have been 3000 years earlier than the Byzantine dogmas.

Strange that some Bible Scholars attribute the Bible's beginnings to around 4000.bC, the Calendar of Egypt, and the Jewish Calender shortly after:  (Babylonian).

In 2400.bC, Philitis the Good Shepherd, was more revered than the Pharaoh Khufu to the masses of Egypt. 

Man is living by the "Second Book".

How do you think the Mayans became so advanced?



[ 12-26-2005, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:27:59 pm
 
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-26-2005 01:43 PM                       
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Hi Riven,

When you mentioned the Book of Thoth, are you referring to the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, saod to be lost for centuries?

As I understand them, they are said to be either a creation of alchemists of the ninth century, with traditions stretching back to the time of Alexander. Do you have information that they are dated earlier to 2400 bc?

Very timely that you mentioned the Egytian Book of the Dead as I got a copy myself as a Christmas present.Are there any references to Atlantis inside there?

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"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005 
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:28:16 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-26-2005 09:30 PM                       
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Yes Sarah, the Westcar Papyrus for one. Khufu's Son, heard the legend of The Book of Thoth, from a Priest Magician in Upper Egypt.

He became obsessed with trying to find it, this was also around the rise of the Sun Temples in Egypt, which oddly, was also a period of 150 years of "darkness", upon Egypt from Khufu's bloodlines.

Priests, were also said to display these emerald tablets on their necklaces around the middle kingdom, 1500.bC, and onwards.

The emerald tablets testify that Thoth was an Atlantean, where we can also find the riddle of the lines and the pyramid by Thoth.

As for the Book of The Dead,in simple terms,it also tells us of the WESTERN LANDS where the Spirit travelled to, and magical islands, such as Aulu.

These Western lands were also the belief of Creation and the primordial hill to the Egyptians, known as TATENEN.

You will come upon this word in your book.

The Sumerian Flood legend of Gilgamesh,(2200-2600.bC) who also breaks pillars on his voyage to the ferryman and Utnapishtim, is also similiar.

Tatenen >< Atlantis

Ta = Earth
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:28:36 pm
Aphrodite

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Member # 2573

Member Rated:
   posted 12-27-2005 04:08 AM                       
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One can only imagine how much knowledge was lost with the Library of Alexandria (irregardless of who was responsible).

Caesar's army burned 40,000 books (supposedly by "accident.")

The Christians were said to have gotten rid of it because they didn't approve of pagan knowledge.

The Muslims were said to finish the job off because they were the works of the infidels.

What fools. Only stupid people and bigots burn books.

My definition of heaven would include the Library of Alexandria. I would spend all my time there.

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Posts: 238 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jul 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:29:06 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-27-2005 06:01 PM                       
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I would gladly turn the pages in Heaven for you Aphrodite! :)


1550, Sebastian Munster, Cosmographiae Universalis, 1138

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/munster_lat_1550_1138.html

1575, Braun and Hogenberg, Civitates Orbis Terrarum, map II-56

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/braun_hogenberg_II_56.html

1615, Henry de Beauvau, Relation iournaliere du voyage...

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/beauvau_1615_alexandria.html

1675, G.A. Remondini Viaggio da Venetia al St. Sepolcro...

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/bianchi_remondini_1675_alexandria.html

1760-s, Antonio Borg, Piani diversi di tutte le isole..., pl. 102

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/borg_1760s_pl_102.html

1764, Joseph Roux, Receuil des principaux plans..., pl. 120

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/roux_1764_pl_120.html

1764, Jacques-Nicolas Bellin, Le petit atlas maritime, v. III, pl. 86

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/bellin_1764_III_86.html

1801, William Faden, A plan of the Operations...

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/egypt/alexandria/maps/faden_1801_alexandria.html

Historic Cities.

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/africa/africa.html


http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/Alexandria/Gallery/old_map.gif

Alexandria
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/Alexandria/index.html

The Library of Alexandria
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/Students/Ellen/Museum.html

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:29:23 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-27-2005 06:41 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A memoire of Atlantis in Alexandria,Egypt?

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/alexandria%20atlantis%20temple.jpg

I came upon this looking for the library of Alexandria in Google Earth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:29:41 pm
Sarah

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   posted 12-28-2005 02:12 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tatenen
As his name The Risen Land indicates Tatenen was the earth of the beginning, the primeval hill, which had risen out of the primeval waters. And every year he emerged from the waters of the inundation ready to bear fruit and nourish mankind.
Tatenen... from whom have proceeded all things in the shape of food and viands, divine offers, all good things
C. J. Bleeker: Historia Religionum I, p.68
He was venerated at Memphis and came to be identified with Ptah. Ramses II called him father of the gods and saw himself as his successor, as the ruler of the earth
Utterance of the divine king, Lord of the Two Lands, lord of the form of Khepri, in whose limbs is Re, who came forth from Re, whom Ptah-Tatenen begat, King Ramses II, given life; to his father, from whom he came forth, Tatenen, father of the gods
J. H. Breasted: Ancient Records of Egypt, Part Three, § 411
Similar to the earth-god Geb, he was a source of materials for the artisans whose patron god was Ptah
Thou art gold, thine is the silver, Keb has opened for thee that which is in him, Tatenen has given to thee his things.
J. H. Breasted: Ancient Records of Egypt, Part Thwo, § 91
As the earth-god he received the deceased and helped him on his way
The arms of Tatenen are what receive me and raise me up.
Carol Andrews: The Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, spell 180
Khnum, the creator who formed all on his potter's wheel, is identified with Tatenen in the Great Hymn of Khnum
... for the lord of the wheel is their father too, Tatenen who made all that is on their soil
M. Lichtheim: Ancient Egyptian Literature, Vol.3, p.113
He is depicted as a seated bearded man holding a flail, wearing a headdress consisting of ram's horns and two feathers.

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/religion/tatenen.htm

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:30:01 pm
Sarah

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   posted 12-28-2005 02:18 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Riven,

I can see how the primordial hill might relate to Atlantis. I admit I am unfamiliar with the relationship of the Westcar Papyrus to it, though, care to explain?

Nice links, by the way.
Makes me feel as if I'm on my way to Alexandria to spend some time in the library there.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:30:23 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-28-2005 03:19 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is my greatest joy Sarah, providing a "Vision" for us to follow, hence the vision of Tribes of Atlantis, to know who could be and could not be Atlanteans, and provide us with a beautiful vision of the ancient world...in Truth.

The Westcar Papyrus provides us with information of Khufu, The Sun Temples, and Thoth, other than Priests and Magicians.

We also learn the "curse" upon the bloodlines of Khufu, which is why scholars say there was a 150 year period of darkness for Egypt in around 2500.bC. I call this the Trismegistus of Khufu,Menkaure,and Khafre.

In the WestCar Papyrus, a "Prodigal Child" was to be born, the 3rd from the Sons of Khufu.......

but not of his blood. 

This was also the time when Philitis, the Good Shepherd, was more revered than the Pharaoh Khufu.

Basicaly, Sarah, Lower Egypt is a "memoire" of Atlantis.

Atlanteans built the first temple where they first saw the "Light".

Therefore, they were also Sun Temple and Moon Temple worshippers, and perhaps the first forms of Christianity as we see from Lower Egypt around 3000.bC and earlier.

Now if Thoth says he is an Atlantean, and Atlantis also was TATENEN, the WestWard lands........and Khufu and his Son eagerly sought the book.........


and the Atlantis Legend comes from Egypt......


hmmmmmmmmm

[ 12-28-2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:33:53 pm
Absonite

Member
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  posted 12-28-2005 08:15 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duh,
golly gee Riven, I got dis hare book for chirstmas and I'm too dumb to read it, could you pleze tell me wats inside????

Wood you tell me wat to belive pleze???

line 233: The weak and the inferior have always contended for equal rights; they have always insisted that the state compel the strong and superior to supply their wants and otherwise make good those deficiencies which all too often are the natural result of their own indifference and indolence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:34:17 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 12-28-2005 08:39 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see how the primordial hill might relate to Atlantis. I admit I am unfamiliar with the relationship of the Westcar Papyrus to it, though, care to explain?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation..... I'm a lazy slothful idiot, and can't figure anything out for myself.

[ 12-28-2005, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:34:50 pm
zaphod

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   posted 12-28-2005 08:39 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:35:18 pm
I_am_that_I_am

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Member # 1238

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 10:31 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and perhaps the first forms of Christianity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not until after JESUS :)

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:35:45 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 10:44 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Absonite:
Duh,
golly gee Riven, I got dis hare book for chirstmas and I'm too dumb to read it, could you pleze tell me wats inside????

Wood you tell me wat to belive pleze???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't play coy with me, you didn't need me to explain that the U-rant-ing Book was for like-minded white supremacists like yourself.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
line 233: The weak and the inferior have always contended for equal rights; they have always insisted that the state compel the strong and superior to supply their wants and otherwise make good those deficiencies which all too often are the natural result of their own indifference and indolence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You print that, and yet you're the one that apparently needs the U-rant-ing Book.

And we all know that cults are for the weak-minded.
:)

[ 12-28-2005, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Sarah ]

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:36:08 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 10:47 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Translation..... I'm a lazy slothful idiot, and can't figure anything out for myself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Naturally, bigot, you joined a cult, didn't you?
Didn't need to tell us that.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:37:19 pm
 
Sarah

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Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 10:56 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tonight's journey into the beer-stained realms of white supremacy comes from:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PAPER 64 - THE EVOLUTIONARY RACES OF COLOR, Oct 19 2000

line 43: And thus it has ever been on Urantia. Civilizations of great promise have successively deteriorated and have finally been extinguished by the folly of allowing the superior freely to procreate with the inferior.

line 48: These were the times when large numbers of inferior mongrel groups were arriving in England from southern France. These tribes were so largely mixed with the forest apelike creatures that they were scarcely human. They had no religion but were crude flintworkers and possessed sufficient intelligence to kindle fire.


line 65: 850,000 years ago the superior Badonan tribes began a warfare of extermination directed against their inferior and animalistic neighbors. In less than one thousand years most of the borderland animal groups of these regions had been either destroyed or driven back to the southern forests. This campaign for the extermination of inferiors brought about a slight improvement in the hill tribes of that age. And the mixed descendants of this improved Badonite stock appeared on the stage of action as an apparently new people--the Neanderthal race.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah yes, Jesus would have loved the divine love emanating from this message.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 02, 2008, 01:37:56 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 10:58 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 entry for bigot.
B-i-g-o-t.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000534;p=4


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:11:21 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-28-2005 11:16 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Riven:
That is my greatest joy Sarah, providing a "Vision" for us to follow, hence the vision of Tribes of Atlantis, to know who could be and could not be Atlanteans, and provide us with a beautiful vision of the ancient world...in Truth.

The Westcar Papyrus provides us with information of Khufu, The Sun Temples, and Thoth, other than Priests and Magicians.

We also learn the "curse" upon the bloodlines of Khufu, which is why scholars say there was a 150 year period of darkness for Egypt in around 2500.bC. I call this the Trismegistus of Khufu,Menkaure,and Khafre.

In the WestCar Papyrus, a "Prodigal Child" was to be born, the 3rd from the Sons of Khufu.......

but not of his blood. 

This was also the time when Philitis, the Good Shepherd, was more revered than the Pharaoh Khufu.

Basicaly, Sarah, Lower Egypt is a "memoire" of Atlantis.

Atlanteans built the first temple where they first saw the "Light".

Therefore, they were also Sun Temple and Moon Temple worshippers, and perhaps the first forms of Christianity as we see from Lower Egypt around 3000.bC and earlier.

Now if Thoth says he is an Atlantean, and Atlantis also was TATENEN, the WestWard lands........and Khufu and his Son eagerly sought the book.........


and the Atlantis Legend comes from Egypt......


hmmmmmmmmm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll admit that I haven't checked into the Westcar Papyrus yet, I've been too busy studying the weird trainwreck that is the Urantia Book.

(It's channelled by aliens, in case you didn't know, apparently a couple of bigoted ones  )

However, I have checked into the Schoch/West/Hancock/Bauvall research into the Sphinx and Pyramids, as well as researched the Emerald Tablet, Inventory Stela and starting on the Book of the Dead.

Manetho's king's list also describe as time when the gods themselves ruled Egypt, one of them being Thoth, of course, and Osiris, Isis and Ptah.

If Lower Egypt was meant to be a "memoire" of Atlantis, and yet (if I read your past writings correctly), you date the sinking of Atlantis to 6480 bc, then just what does the alignment of the the Sphinx and Giza complex commemorate since both are supposedly dated to around 10,500 bc?

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:11:46 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 12-29-2005 12:42 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See, the Urantians are just Uranians in disguise, defenders of the east, who mixed aliens with the bible and the known knowledge of the world between the 20's and 60's.

What the Urantians and those other boys you mentioned have in common, is that they all take ahayuasca drugs that permanently damaged their twaddled minds and support the greenline of pschopompous propaganda.

One thing you will come to realize Sarah, is the 6000 year old war between East and West, that still goes on to this day.

Other than cave drawings, one of the oldest relics of an ancient battle of civilization, comes to light around 3500.bC.from the Gebel-el-Arak Knife,The Narmer Palette, and the Phaistos Disk, thought to be around 1650.bC.

By the time of the middle kingdom to Rameses, the Persio-Assyrian influence was strong, especialy after the Hyksos'rule of Egypt ca 1650.bC.

This is the time of the arrival of "Zeus" who replaced Jove (Jupiter).

Another indication of my research is that Osiris and Isis could also be Eastern influences and not the real Gods of Egypt such as Geb,Seth and Nephtys would portray.

The jungle is very fierce with tyrants erasing history and confusing the masses with conformed books, such as the claim to Sumerians being the first to write or the alphabet deriving from the Phoenicians.

Azilians were writing in 9000.bC already in Western Europe.

Now, the strongest influence to Atlantis is the Lion, so logicaly, one would think of the Age of Leo, ca 10,000.bC and justification to say that the Sphinx and Pyramid were from those ages,perhaps.

It boils down to Plato's,Alcibiades where no one was a teacher because they all still argued over the Truth, a truth which is even more difficult because of the controversies of Egypt and people like Zawi Hawass who likes to also "clean" things like the tyrant Pharaohs of the past, so the voice says from the horses mouth.

There are indications of the Great Pyramid being Star Shaped (sba = Star in Egyptian), from older 40's photos.

And my discovery of letters on top of the Pyramid which no one seems to know anything about, the same letters which can be found inside also.

Look how well hidden the Atlantis legend was!

Personaly, I don't think the Great Pyramid was built prior to 6500.bC, perhaps the older "step" pyramid,nor the Sphinx.

What I do think, is that a majority of people were wiped out between 5500-6500.bC, as archaeological evidence seems to imply for the mediterranean and Lower Egypt.

This was the result of the Great Flood which was thought of as a World Flood, because it effected the Atlantic and the center of the known World back then, the mediterranean.

The other evidence is the lush savannah desert, Lake Tritonis, and the old Westward route of the Nile, as remnants of these great waters.

The Bosphorous straites also opened around this time.

The date of 6482.bC, was the icing on the cake from the Eye of Ra tale of destruction mystery, and from a particular planetary conjunction, with Pluto as the "Catalyst" using Skyglobe software for our Universe and Constellations.

I know this is a longer answer than you would like, but we're almost done, apologies.

So what this leads me to believe is that around 6500.bC, was the "rebirth of man" to the then known World.

Archaeos figure man became "barbaric warriors" around 5000.bC.

The Palermo Stone should also go back to this time.

Egypt has their calendar to around 4142.bC.

3000.bC seems to be the grand "entrance" of the known worlds of Sumer,Byblos,Tyre,Lower Egypt,Minoans, etc...

That is why 3000 - 4000.bC could be an eye opener for us with more secrets of the past.

We know in Malta the Tarxiens were building the first Temples from 6000.bC also.

Stonehenge, 3000.bC.

So I think the Pyramid and Sphinx were built to remind us of that great destruction and a symbol of man's advancements to overcome this with the Gods and to maintain hope,faith and charity as well as defence for our security, which the Sphinx would acknowledge.

And to remind us, that the knowledge of the World had accumulated in Lower Egypt because of it's diversity with Europe and Asia.

If anything, I would add 1000 years to the Great Pyramid to around 3500.bC and the Sphinx.

The Tarxiens didn't build a Great Pyramid.

For me, I don't mix the Pyramids with Orion, but rather to the Garden of Eden, as one sailed "down" the Nile to the Sacred lands of origin.

The Egyptians starting forming around 700,000 years ago in Upper Egypt and Nubia.

You see, when the Egyptians reached Memphis with Menes, they found Libyans/Maadi's,Europeans and Arabians already there. 

And the Minoans.

The Tomb 100 map reminds us of this.


Sorry for the lengthy reply, but these are part of those "visions" for people to wear sandals and carry an olive for their journey.

[ 12-29-2005, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4073 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:12:09 pm
George Erikson
Member
Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 12-29-2005 08:59 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah,

Thank you exposing the Urantia Book. I've had it quoted to me often and my reaction has been, "What the ...." however, I've never bothered to read it, so there has been some scientific negligence or regret. Now I have no regret. Any theory that some races, or sub-races are naturally superior is repugnant to me, and repugant to scientific fact.

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:12:41 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 12-29-2005 09:47 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any theory that some races, or sub-races are naturally superior is repugnant to me, and repugant to scientific fact.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really Einstein ?????? ard I suppose you have support of this repugnant idiotic theory of yours? No wonder you're looking for Atlantis in America.

I suppose you think that Plato's description of the Atlanteans portrayed them as average humans?

Do you suppose your ridiculous theories are why so many people are running out to buy your book? Well george if I ever entertained the idea that I would buy it that certainly has about as good a chance as an ice cube in hell. And to think, Sarah is now your authority on truth. Hahahaha     I can't stop laughing. You certainly are scraping the bottom of the barrel for some reason george. It couldn't be that you think she will buy your book do you? You think you'll make yourself a couple of shekels trashing the Urantia papers? In your finest hour you couldn't even hold a candle to a single page.

Very pathetic george.


quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nations whose people have high IQ levels also have high educational attainment and large numbers of individuals who make significant contributions to national life. On the flipside, nations with low levels of intelligence have low levels of educational attainment and few individuals who make significant contributions. Low intelligence leads to unfavorable social outcomes like crime, unemployment, welfare dependency, and single motherhood.
Lynn and Vanhanen prove that the widespread though rarely stated assumption of economists and political scientists—that all peoples and nations have the same average IQ—is wildly wrong. Their evidence documents substantial national differences in average intelligence. The highest average IQs are found among the Oriental countries of North East Asia (average IQ = 104), followed by the European nations (average IQ = 98), and the mainly White populations of North America and Australasia (average IQ = 98). Further behind are the countries of South and Southwest Asia, from the Middle East through Turkey to India and Malaysia (average IQ = 87), as are the countries of South East Asia and the Pacific Islands (average IQ = 86), and Latin America and the Caribbean (IQ = 85). Lowest are the countries of Africa (average IQ = 70).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_iq.htm


You're not a writer. You're simply a footnote in mediocrity. You wouldn't know scientific fact if you fell over it.
Maybe that's why you are here and not there.
 


I'll tell you something very truthfully George, if I never felt superiority before, I certainly do now.

:)
.



[ 12-29-2005, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:13:30 pm
 
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 04:39 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And to think, Sarah is now your authority on truth. Hahahaha I can't stop laughing. You certainly are scraping the bottom of the barrel for some reason george. It couldn't be that you think she will buy your book do you? You think you'll make yourself a couple of shekels trashing the Urantia papers? In your finest hour you couldn't even hold a candle to a single page.

Very pathetic george.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buy his book? I already have his book, Absonite, and I have news for you, between Atlantis in America and the Urantia Book, George's book is better. 

Yours is a Bible for white supremacists like yourself and it's the laughingstock of the web.

I've printed the passages just as they appear in the book and there's plenty more where they come from. Anyone is welcome to check it out for themselves(or read all 2000 some pages in their entirety), good luck with that.

You're a rascist and that's probably your main attraction to it. Who cares what you "think"?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're not a writer. You're simply a footnote in mediocrity. You wouldn't know scientific fact if you fell over it.
Maybe that's why you are here and not there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scientific theory straight from the 1950's, fool! How many advances have we made since then??

As for mediocrity, you're the one so incapable of thinking for yourself you had to join a cult.

Don't insult him for you own character flaws. You're a rascist, a bigot and a believer in eugenics. Be who you are.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll tell you something very truthfully George, if I never felt superiority before, I certainly do now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say to the mob, can't you just feel the racial supremacy oozing from Absonite's pours..?

A proud day for him, a not so proud day for the human race.

[ 12-30-2005, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: Sarah ]

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:15:49 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 04:44 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by George Erikson:
Sarah,

Thank you exposing the Urantia Book. I've had it quoted to me often and my reaction has been, "What the ...." however, I've never bothered to read it, so there has been some scientific negligence or regret. Now I have no regret. Any theory that some races, or sub-races are naturally superior is repugnant to me, and repugant to scientific fact.

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is repugnant, George, and you were right not to read it. The parts I've printed so far simply scratch the surface of the bigotry. Of course, it was also "channelled" by aliens, apparently bigoted ones.

Don't let any of the things that Absonite said bother you, he's having a bad day.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:16:16 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 05:05 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Riven,


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See, the Urantians are just Uranians in disguise, defenders of the east, who mixed aliens with the bible and the known knowledge of the world between the 20's and 60's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Odd, I'm not certain they even existed at all! The whole book is sci-fi fantasy, poorly written. The two most obvious "truths" in it? It happens to be bigoted and boring.

Sorry Absonite, you're not only a supremacist, you pitch a very boring book to boot.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the Urantians and those other boys you mentioned have in common, is that they all take ahayuasca drugs that permanently damaged their twaddled minds and support the greenline of pschopompous propaganda.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No argument there, that is how the channeling must have gotten started.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other than cave drawings, one of the oldest relics of an ancient battle of civilization, comes to light around 3500.bC.from the Gebel-el-Arak Knife,The Narmer Palette, and the Phaistos Disk, thought to be around 1650.bC.

By the time of the middle kingdom to Rameses, the Persio-Assyrian influence was strong, especialy after the Hyksos'rule of Egypt ca 1650.bC.

This is the time of the arrival of "Zeus" who replaced Jove (Jupiter).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been looking up the Hyksos rule of Egypt and not much seems to be known about it. Do you believe they were Atlanteans? My own personal opinion on the settlers from Crete is that they came from the east to settle, and that there might well be some ancient civilization in Turkey that we have yet to discover (it wouldn't be Atlantis, though.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another indication of my research is that Osiris and Isis could also be Eastern influences and not the real Gods of Egypt such as Geb,Seth and Nephtys would portray.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But don't the legends of Manetho indicate that the gods of the first time came from the west? The legend of Thoth certainly does.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The jungle is very fierce with tyrants erasing history and confusing the masses with conformed books, such as the claim to Sumerians being the first to write or the alphabet deriving from the Phoenicians.

Azilians were writing in 9000.bC already in Western Europe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen the Azilian writing and can see how it might match Phoenician. Azilian would mean it is dated back to 10,000 bc, though, so it wouldn't technically effect your later time period of Atlantis.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, the strongest influence to Atlantis is the Lion, so logicaly, one would think of the Age of Leo, ca 10,000.bC and justification to say that the Sphinx and Pyramid were from those ages,perhaps.


The Egyptians starting forming around 700,000 years ago in Upper Egypt and Nubia.

You see, when the Egyptians reached Memphis with Menes, they found Libyans/Maadi's,Europeans and Arabians already there.

And the Minoans.

The Tomb 100 map reminds us of this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is my opinion on some of this, Riven.
What confuses Atlantis hunters the most is that they tend to believe that every hint of a civilization they find happens to be Atlantis. What if there were many, many civiliations that we don't know about that were just as grand? What if one was on Turkey, another in Cyprus, still another in the Bahamas, with the ruins of the Atlantean Empire in their colonies of Tartessos, greater Iberia and Morocco? With all these candidates out there, and no one knowing for sure which geographic location was actually Atlantis, how can anyone know for certain where it was?

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:17:47 pm
 
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 05:25 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last thing, Absonite posted this quote:


quote:
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The highest average IQs are found among the Oriental countries of North East Asia (average IQ = 104), followed by the European nations (average IQ = 98), and the mainly White populations of North America and Australasia (average IQ = 98). Further behind are the countries of South and Southwest Asia, from the Middle East through Turkey to India and Malaysia (average IQ = 87), as are the countries of South East Asia and the Pacific Islands (average IQ = 86), and Latin America and the Caribbean (IQ = 85). Lowest are the countries of Africa (average IQ = 70).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, his U-ranting book actually says differently about the Asian and Indian races:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PAPER 64 - THE EVOLUTIONARY RACES OF COLOR, Oct 19 2000

line 48: These were the times when large numbers of inferior mongrel groups were arriving in England from southern France. These tribes were so largely mixed with the forest apelike creatures that they were scarcely human. They had no religion but were crude flintworkers and possessed sufficient intelligence to kindle fire.
line 65: 850,000 years ago the superior Badonan tribes began a warfare of extermination directed against their inferior and animalistic neighbors. In less than one thousand years most of the borderland animal groups of these regions had been either destroyed or driven back to the southern forests. This campaign for the extermination of inferiors brought about a slight improvement in the hill tribes of that age. And the mixed descendants of this improved Badonite stock appeared on the stage of action as an apparently new people--the Neanderthal race.
line 121: 3. The yellow man. The primitive yellow tribes were the first to abandon the chase, establish settled communities, and develop a home life based on agriculture. Intellectually they were somewhat inferior to the red man, but socially and collectively they proved themselves superior to all of the Sangik peoples in the matter of fostering racial civilization. Because they developed a fraternal spirit, the various tribes learning to live together in relative peace, they were able to drive the red race before them as they gradually expanded into Asia.
line 125: The green race split into three major divisions: The northern tribes were subdued, enslaved, and absorbed by the yellow and blue races. The eastern group were amalgamated with the Indian peoples of those days, and remnants still persist among them. The southern nation entered Africa, where they destroyed their almost equally inferior orange cousins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:18:15 pm
Tom Hebert1
Member
Member # 2835

  posted 12-30-2005 06:00 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Sarah,

I, too, want to thank you for taking the time to expose the Urantia Book for what it is. This cult sounds very scary to me, especially with the Nazi overtones!
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Posts: 914 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:18:55 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 12-30-2005 06:15 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you're really such an idiot that you can't even comprehend what you read nor are you able to put it into perspective.
It is also interesting that you have skipped over the entire section related to God and are more concerned with what you call pre-Neanderthal bigotry and behavior of monkeys 850,000 years ago. You don't even have any idea of what 850,000 years ago means.
I suppose that you graduated at the top of your academically challanged class also.
You can't even recognize what is right before your eyes; what makes you think you can run off at the mouth and can pass judgement on something you can't even begin to fathom? Perhaps that's why you are even attempting to read it the first time. You should just stick to your bible so that you don't pop a blood vessel in what you call a brain. You can't even get through the forward of the revelation with any comprehension, you little bug.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:19:39 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 12-30-2005 06:18 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are right tom, please stay far away from it.
Ignorance really is bliss isn't it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:20:04 pm
George Erikson
Member
Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 01:43 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah,

"Here is my opinion on some of this, Riven.
What confuses Atlantis hunters the most is that they tend to believe that every hint of a civilization they find happens to be Atlantis. What if there were many, many civiliations that we don't know about that were just as grand?"

In my opinion if these other civilizations were just as grand then they would have had the navigational abilities Plato attributes to Atlantis. Thus they would likely have been, to some extent, interconnected by trade. They could even have been colonies of Atlantis. What they were called makes little difference. We don't know what people who built the huge pyramids at Teotihuacan in the Valley of Mexico called themselves. They were pre-Toltec, pre-Aztec. We don't know what the people who built the great stone wall at Sacsayhuaman near Cuzco, Peru called themselves. They were pre-Inca. But if you look at the stone faces at Tiahuanacu in the Andes (Atlantis In America p.257), and at the stone faces Tula in the Valley of Mexico (p.192) you will see that they are the same (or very similar) people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:20:34 pm
I_am_that_I_am

Member
Member # 1238

Member Rated:
   posted 12-30-2005 05:51 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They could even have been colonies of Atlantis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plato:
quote:
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 Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:21:30 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-31-2005 12:19 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Absonite:
You know you're really such an idiot that you can't even comprehend what you read nor are you able to put it into perspective.
It is also interesting that you have skipped over the entire section related to God and are more concerned with what you call pre-Neanderthal bigotry and behavior of monkeys 850,000 years ago. You don't even have any idea of what 850,000 years ago means.
I suppose that you graduated at the top of your academically challanged class also.
You can't even recognize what is right before your eyes; what makes you think you can run off at the mouth and can pass judgement on something you can't even begin to fathom? Perhaps that's why you are even attempting to read it the first time. You should just stick to your bible so that you don't pop a blood vessel in what you call a brain. You can't even get through the forward of the revelation with any comprehension, you little bug.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can feel free to say or think whatever you wish about me, I'm not about catering to the whims of bigots. Just had a quick read of your Eugenics thread:
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000211;p=1

Point is, it's actually the racial element that is what attracts you to it. You say who am I to pass judgment on the U-rant-ing Book, so I, in turn, ask, who do you think you are to pass judgment on who you believe can have children or not?

You're a bigot and a fool and you are in dire need of a new "thought adjuster."

Anyway, as has been mentioned, you haven't made any converts here. Tom Herbert, Andrew Waters, Riven, George Erikson, Unknown all have come out against the book, too. I'd say you're fighting a losing battle here, but I get the feeling that people were never very interested in what you had to sell in the first place.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:21:59 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 12-31-2005 12:36 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by George Erikson:
Sarah,

"Here is my opinion on some of this, Riven.
What confuses Atlantis hunters the most is that they tend to believe that every hint of a civilization they find happens to be Atlantis. What if there were many, many civiliations that we don't know about that were just as grand?"

In my opinion if these other civilizations were just as grand then they would have had the navigational abilities Plato attributes to Atlantis. Thus they would likely have been, to some extent, interconnected by trade. They could even have been colonies of Atlantis. What they were called makes little difference. We don't know what people who built the huge pyramids at Teotihuacan in the Valley of Mexico called themselves. They were pre-Toltec, pre-Aztec. We don't know what the people who built the great stone wall at Sacsayhuaman near Cuzco, Peru called themselves. They were pre-Inca. But if you look at the stone faces at Tiahuanacu in the Andes (Atlantis In America p.257), and at the stone faces Tula in the Valley of Mexico (p.192) you will see that they are the same (or very similar) people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They do look similar. And I have no doubt that ancient navigators were far more prevalent than we have been led to believe. Incidentally, even though you don't touch on Greece in the book, I liked the pre-deluge map of Greece on page 182. There is a theory that the reason why the Athens at the time the Atlantis story has never been found is because it's all under water. Who knows what lies under the alluvial layers under all the ancient coastlines?

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:22:30 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-01-2006 01:15 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George:

It is only in our Zodiacal era.

So the answers should be there.

People have languages.

Their names should be there somewhere for proper words have reason.

True, it is not all cultures that were Atlantean, but they do seem very widespread as we see at the "climax" of our Lion King, and they controlled the "known middle Earth"(Mediterranean) back then before the Egyptians.

So for our Bronze Ages,and such, the Principal is Atlantean.

Then the East took over and added Osiris and Zeus and Mel Brooks. 

But as you say, George, I do realize the changes of the times, and that is what I want to know also, how those people thought and what they called themselves so our history can and should be proper.

For truly it was a sad day in 399.bC for Aristophanes poem of fate for Socrates. 

Their names are there somewhere, hidden in their languages, such as I realized "JA" and "RA", and NU/NE from Linear A Languages ca 3500.bC 

Happy New Year to All.

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4073 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:22:50 pm
Jean Starling

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Member # 2512

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   posted 01-01-2006 02:33 AM                       
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Happy New Year to you, too, Riven. Hope it's a good one!

George mentioned the Toltecs. This is pretty cool, Atlantean Warrior Colimns, carved by the Toltecs:

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/toltecs.htm
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/toltec-warriors.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 110 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: May 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:23:28 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-01-2006 07:44 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sarah you're getting a little boring. Since you arrived here a little over a month ago, you've been stinking up these bored's with your incessant meaningless drivel and your relentless drive for attention. Get a life.
The only thing you have succeded in doing is to bring all the little rats out of their holes loking for another meal to live their little rat lives for another day. It's not my problem that you were born jewish and have a personal bias towards sound genetics. Your upbringing has you a full 2 revelations behind the rest of the world and you've shown no interest in finding out why you've been saddled with such an inferiority complex. Too much inbreeding and inherent stubborness is my guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:23:51 pm
George Erikson
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Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 09:36 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starling,

Very cool! I had not seen the early excavation pictures before. Too bad the pictures don't show an average person standing next to the stone figures. They are about 16 feet tall, but I'm not sure you can sense this from the pictures alone.
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Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:24:16 pm
George Erikson
Member
Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 09:52 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah,

"even though you don't touch on Greece in the book, I liked the pre-deluge map of Greece on page 182. There is a theory that the reason why the Athens at the time the Atlantis story has never been found is because it's all under water. Who knows what lies under the alluvial layers under all the ancient coastlines?"

Yes, well put! The Belize government has given me the rights to excavation of a site near Corazal that has a pyramid that is partially submerged. I believe that this pyramid and a connecting roadway (now totally submerged) were built when sea levels were much lower!

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:24:57 pm
 
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-01-2006 10:26 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
....a site near Corazal that has a pyramid that is partially submerged. I believe that this pyramid and a connecting roadway (now totally submerged) were built when sea levels were much lower!


with an exclamation point nonetheless. :)
You must be a real rocket scientist to figure that one out Einstein. It must be conclusions like that one that has made you such a famous author. :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:25:41 pm
I_am_that_I_am

Member
Member # 1238

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 10:31 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You must be a real rocket scientist to figure that one out Einstein. It must be conclusions like that one that has made you such a famous author. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone needs a CHILL PILL Does your meaness come naturally Absonite, or have you been working hard at it all your life ??

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000534;p=4


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 03, 2008, 01:29:11 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-01-2006 10:45 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right I AM, but I resent some of his earlier comments and outright self-serving irresponsible conclusions, very similar to to this ridiculous conclusion. I am even surprised he put it in print.
Nevertheless, what goes around comes around.

Happiness does not buy money. :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000534;p=4


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:09:41 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 03:48 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by George Erikson:
Sarah,

"even though you don't touch on Greece in the book, I liked the pre-deluge map of Greece on page 182. There is a theory that the reason why the Athens at the time the Atlantis story has never been found is because it's all under water. Who knows what lies under the alluvial layers under all the ancient coastlines?"

Yes, well put! The Belize government has given me the rights to excavation of a site near Corazal that has a pyramid that is partially submerged. I believe that this pyramid and a connecting roadway (now totally submerged) were built when sea levels were much lower!

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations, George! I'll look forward to hearing about it. What culture does this pyramid come from? Might interest you to know that the Greek government has also recently relaxed it's laws regarding excavations, too, and we might be hearing news of these kinds of discoveries in that part of the world within the next ten years as well.

Oh, and don't mind Absonite, he takes no joy out of life other than in his mean efforts to make others feel bad about theirs. He is not a good person.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:10:49 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 03:55 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by I_am_that_I_am:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You must be a real rocket scientist to figure that one out Einstein. It must be conclusions like that one that has made you such a famous author. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone needs a CHILL PILL Does your meaness come naturally Absonite, or have you been working hard at it all your life ??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A very good point, I_am_that_I_am, if this is what his spirituality has done for him, he is better off believing in nothing.

As it is, the things that he does believe in, being petulant to others, making light of their beliefs, religious and other wise, and, of course, racial bigotry disqualify him as a good person.

How can one claim to have received the word of Christ when they don't even impart Christ's teachings in their dealings with others?

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:11:19 pm
 
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 03:57 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Absonite:
You may be right I AM, but I resent some of his earlier comments and outright self-serving irresponsible conclusions, very similar to to this ridiculous conclusion. I am even surprised he put it in print.
Nevertheless, what goes around comes around.

Happiness does not buy money. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, I think someone's "thought adjuster" needs a call.

And you should have the class to leave everyone else alone. This is between me and you. Bigot.

[ 01-01-2006, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Sarah ]

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:11:46 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-01-2006 04:04 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brig,

Deal with this foul mouth little twit or I will deal with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:12:24 pm
Sarah

Member
Member # 2812

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 05:01 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't used a single curse word here.
How will you deal with me, send the Brownshirts after me?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Absonite:
sarah you're getting a little boring. Since you arrived here a little over a month ago, you've been stinking up these bored's with your incessant meaningless drivel and your relentless drive for attention. Get a life.
The only thing you have succeded in doing is to bring all the little rats out of their holes loking for another meal to live their little rat lives for another day. It's not my problem that you were born jewish and have a personal bias towards sound genetics. Your upbringing has you a full 2 revelations behind the rest of the world and you've shown no interest in finding out why you've been saddled with such an inferiority complex. Too much inbreeding and inherent stubborness is my guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, there you have it, each word out of your mouth, more bigoted than the last. What's next, would you like the gas ovens warmed up for me? Admit it, you do.

You're the one out for attention. You're earnestly trying to make converts here and so far the only one I have seen even remotely drawn to your material is Ishtar. How many converts have you made?

You're pitching a bigoted book and then telling people they're idiots for not believing in it. Yes, Christ certainly worked in such a way. Perhaps it's best for you to take the show on the road. Oh, and sieg heil, by the way.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:12:50 pm
George Erikson
Member
Member # 1129

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 05:55 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah,

Absonite is like a bad dream. If we ignore him maybe he'll just go away.

[ 01-01-2006, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: George Erikson ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:13:14 pm
I_am_that_I_am

Member
Member # 1238

Member Rated:
   posted 01-01-2006 07:55 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest trying not to sleep ! lmao !

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:13:50 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-01-2006 08:11 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.


Hi Gil,
we have a Jewess bigot here too blinded like a rabid dog; all agiated by her delusions and foaming at the mouth .......


Jewish Bigotry....


 

Dear Gil:

I have heard some awful things in the AOL Jewish chatroom. When TWA, Flt. 800 went down, one person typed, "Who cares? They were all goyim." I witnessed the same kind of responses during the Oklahoma City bombing.

It seems to me that I "see" Jewish people, in chat rooms, who truly believe they are superior, only because they are Jewish. Why is this? Is it, simply, taking on an attitude of superiority when one feels inferior and using Judaism for that superiority? These kinds of Jewish online people, with the ghetto mentality, practice the same discrimination and bigotry that they complain about others are doing to them.

Sincerely,

P

 

Dear P:

Thank you for writing--the comments you described made me sick. Every once in a while, I too have heard some of this kind of chatter and find it totally inexcusable and disgusting!

I want to believe this kind of behavior represents only a small number of Jews. Why do some Jews speak and think this way? I don't know. The best answer I can come up with is that they carry with them the baggage of many centuries of persecution at the hands of gentiles. There is no doubt that the pain and death inflicted upon us by non-Jews has left deep scars on many Jews--but that to me does not justify at all the kind of revolting behavior you wrote about.

Beyond that, maybe your suggestion is correct, that when a person is feeling inferior they cut down others. Or perhaps, to convince themselves that they are superior, they elevate themselves artificially. I am really not sure.

I do know this--if this is what "choseness" means--I WANT NO PART OF IT! If God wants Jews to be "a light unto the nations" and "a nation of priests" then to my way of thinking any Jews who acts this way toward non-Jews is desecrating God's name.

Beyond any ideas of God and/or choseness, I agree with you, Jews--of all people-- should know that such bigotry and discrimination is just plain wrong. On top of all these points, from a purely practical perspective, this type of behavior--only encourages bigotry and discrimination toward us.

I will end with my sincere hope and belief that most Jews would share my disgust over the examples you emailed to me.

Thanks for writing,

Gil

http://www.beingjewish.org/jewishemail/resp0709.html
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:14:11 pm
+Faith+

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   posted 01-01-2006 08:15 PM                       
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This topic isn't even remotely about the Library of Alexandria anymore, is it? A pity.

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Posts: 159 | Registered: Dec 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:16:01 pm
Absonite

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  posted 01-01-2006 08:29 PM                       
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Understanding Sarah
or
Perhaps Thou protests too much


Jewish Studies

THE JEWISH PROBLEM


(With a special message to my Jewish readers.)

by Eric Thomson

28 June 2000
Marx remained a Jew, though he hated to admit it. In this respect, his use of a German name, his denial of his identity, revealed Marx to be a typical Jew, with a typical Jewish inferiority complex. But instead of coping with the problems which the Jew perceives as the bases of his inferiority, the Jew acquires an equally exagge-rated form of megalomania, accompanied by delusions of grandeur, and its fellow-traveller, paranoia. This unholy trinity completes the typical Jewish psyche.

Karl Levy, alias Marx, was anti-Jewish in many of his statements, to the extent that he hated certain physical and behavioral traits which he identified as Jewish, i.e. negroid features and crass materialism. In one essay, Marx concluded that Jews could only become emancipated citizens of civilization when they had emancipated themselves from their obnoxious traits. Despite his virulent opinions, Marx remained a Jew, though he hated to admit it. In this respect, his use of a German name, his denial of his identity, revealed Marx to be a typical Jew, with a typical Jewish inferiority complex. But instead of coping with the problems which the Jew perceives as the bases of his inferiority, the Jew acquires an equally exaggerated form of megalomania, accompanied by delusions of grandeur, and its fellow-traveller, paranoia. This unholy trinity completes the typical Jewish psyche. In the German film, "Erbkrank" ("Hereditary Illness"), based on Weimar Republic statistics, the Jews, who were a small minority of German society, comprised a disproportionately large percentage of the insane asylum population. The Weimar Republic was very such a 'Jewish paradise', so 'poisecution' (sic) would not be a factor in driving Jews crazy, any more than it would be a factor in the Jews' promised land of USZOG. Certainly Jewish heredity is a factor in Jewish insanity, but Judaism inculcates mental illnesses via its tenets and rituals.

(1) Inferiority: The Jew can never do enough or have enough. He must always have "more", as Jew labor leader Samuel Gompers declared. The Jew is often ashamed of his Jewish origins and his ugliness; hence, the Jewish penchant for name-changes and nose-jobs. The Jew sees himself as 'the eternal victim' of persecution, although he is more likely to be the persecutor, rather than the persecuted. This reverse-thinking is a typically Jewish delusion.

(2) Megalomania/delusions of grandeur: The Jew is the "chosen, creature of Yahweh, his tribal god. Since all women and all Goyim are deemed to be without souls, the Jew is the only male creature on the planet who is deemed to have a soul. The world and everything in it are deemed to be the Jew's property, including the Goy 'livestock', who are to be used and abused as the Jew sees fit.

(3) Paranoia: Because the Jew thinks of himself as a 'noble knave', an 'omnipotent victim' who is 'exalted and despised', as well as 'protected and persecuted', he projects his own hostility toward the universe in general and the Goyim in particular. As rabbis have declared, "Der Olem ist ein Golem" (the universe is a monster). The Goyim supposedly hate the Jew, and are always out to 'get' him, and the Jew usually 'proves' the correctness of his belief by means of his own aggressive and obnoxious behavior! Anyone can confirm the truth of such a paranoid belief by assuming that "everyone wants to hit me", therefore, "I shall hit them first!" Just go into a bar and start punching people. In short order, you will discover that they will respond by hitting you, which 'proves' you were 'right'! Paranoia often has sado-masochistic overtones. The paranoid, i.e., Jewish personality, wants to lash out at his perceived enemies, but he often feels the urge to be punished by those toward whom his hostility is directed. Usually, he identifies with those who strike back at him. Hence, the Jewish penchant for dressing up and acting out their Hollywood Nazi fantasies. If this be paranoid-schizophrenia, the Jew makes the most of it!

The quintessential Jewish writer, Franz Kafka, expresses his assurance that his protagonists will be inevitably found out, caught and punished. He describes the Jewish fate, from which there 'is no escape'. It is indeed, "hard to be a Jew", but seemingly impossible to escape from the jewishness one despises in oneself.

Before all my Jewish readers jump to paranoic conclusions and stop showering me with their praise and donations, I shall declare that I am in full agreement with the observations and revelations of Marcus Eli Ravage, who described Goyim quite accurately, especially Christian Goyim. We are indeed foolish, credulous and thoughtless in our dealings with you. Your positions of power and influence in our societies proves your assessment of us is at least 99% accurate. We can also be stupid, greedy, mindless brutes, especially toward other Goyim.

Although we accuse Jews of instigating our internecine slaughters, that by no means absolves us of our guilt nor of our responsibility in the perpetration of world wars and other such atrocities. If you lend me money to push someone else off a bridge, and I accept your bargain, I cannot justly consider myself your victim. The one I pushed off the bridge is certainly my victim, and only indirectly is he your victim. You have told many of us to 'go jump in the lake'. The fact that many of us do it is our fault, not yours. It is one thing to say, 'the devil made me do it', but it is quite another thing to admit that the devil made me want to do it! Yes, the Goyim, especially the Whites, have a lot of growing up to do.

"The Babylonian Talmud"warns that "a lie kills three persons: the liar, the one who is lied about, and the one who believes the lie." The truth of this statement has been amply demonstrated over the centuries, since it was written. Fantasies based upon lies were goading the herds of hysterical Goyim into stampeding to their deaths in such disasters as the Crusades and the recent world wars, but Goyim are not the only victims of fantasies based on lies.

Jews have shown astounding patience in awaiting the arrival of their fictitious messiah for some 4,000 years, whereas Christians have awaited their fictitious entity, "Jesus ben Yahweh", for a mere 2,000. One may as well await the advent of "The Great Pumpkin".

Another example of "Waiting for Godot" is expressed in "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" and their precursors, including "The Babylonian Talmud". Like the 'messiah', the 'final victory' of Jewish power is always 'just around the corner', and it will always remain so! Jews have attempted to explain the non-advent of Jewish power and/or the messiah by claiming that the culmination of Jewish power will bring the messiah, or that the advent of the messiah will bring about the culmination of Jewish power. The reason this can never be lies uncomfortably close to home in the Jewish psyche, as any 'righteous Gentile' can tell you.

Certainly, the Jewish scheme to subvert, enslave and slay the Goyim under a Jew World Ordure (sic) is clever and practical, if only it were not the Jews who have tried to achieve it! The reason for these centuries, nay, millennia of failures to subvert Goy states and establish Jewish 'order' is obvious: The Jew cannot stand order! He can ruin, but he can never rule, for the Jew is a congenital subverter and corrupter who cannot stop himself from undoing his own work upon the attainment of his power. The Jew has held the reins of power in the ancient world: Egypt, Athens and Rome. The juggernaut of states and empires fell under Jewish control by means of gold, but all the Jew could do was drive it over the nearest cliff. The Jewish adventure in Egypt reveals the jewish incapacity to rule, even with the full co-operation of the Jews' Goy subjects. This incapacity is both embarrassing and tragic: embarrassing for the Jew and tragic for the Goyim. In recent times, the Jew has shown that he has neither learned from his past experiences, nor has he changed for the better in regard to ruling over the Goyim.

The Khazar-jewish nation subverted the Russian Empire, then conquered it, only to ruin it by shortsighted looting and polluting of its vast, rich territory. The outcome of jewish misrule was the transformation of this mighty empire into a dismembered, impoverished, political-economic cripple, a mess of warring bandits, which the Chinese are watching with greedy anticipation.

Israel is another embarrassment. At least, if I were a jew, I would be embarrassed by the failure to make Israel into a viable state, such as Switzerland. The early Zionists claimed that Israel would be a state of, by and for Jews, only. Jews would perform all the jobs, including manual labor and farmwork. Under Jewish management and labor, Israel would be prosperous and powerful, the shining example for the Middle East and the world. Alas, the reality is otherwise: Israel is a dependency, a beggar-state, which must rely upon handouts and tribute from the U.S.A. and Germany. Instead of expelling the native Arabs, the Jews insisted on keeping them to do all the 'Goy work'. Israel is pretty much a concentration camp for a growing Arab population, and Israel's existence is the outcome of another Big Lie: the lie that Jews ever lived without a host people!

Jews are called parasites, but you aren't very good in your parasitism, for you are not content to live off your host's substance, quietly and insidiously, as do real parasites. The Jew parasite eventually triggers a violent reaction in his host peoples and is ejected. This process has been repeated throughout the countries of Europe, especially where the Jew has attained the most power and influence.

The relations between Jews and their Goy host peoples is one of ambivalence, because the Jew is ambivalent. Even in the Torah, the Jew cannot decide whether to enslave us or slay us. We are called'cattle', and we are exploited as such, but then the Jew changes his mind and treats us as if we, were his human opponents, rather than his 'livestock'. No wonder we are confused, whenever our Jewish shepherds attack their own flocks of productive 'sheeple'. Why do Jews kill their golden geese and their best milk cows? My guess is that you don't believe your own lies about us. You claim that we envy you. Would real cattle envy their herdsman? Your inconsistent behavior reveals that you cannot convince yourselves about our status.

You have one more chance to ensure your survival and prosperity, here in the U.S.A., which the economist, Werner Sombart, described as "the distilled essence of Judaism". The Goyim here look up to you. The Freemasons want to be your slaves. The Christians either tolerate you or love you. All the workers and the wealth of this land are at your service. White Goyim willingly served your interests in all the country's wars. By means of your propaganda, you have succeeded in identifying your interests as "America's interests". Our form of government is very much as you outline in "The Protocols". The United States was very much the product of your thinking and your instigation, as parroted by such 'useful idiots' as Thomas Jefferson. The Goyim overwhelmingly admire you and wish to emulate you. They are grateful that you have come to govern us with your 'wisdom'. Obviously, they like to see you in positions of power and influence. Goyim like to buy kosher products, because they believe they are 'better' than those which 'merely' meet FDA standards, and they don't mind paying 'a little extra' for the 'privilege'.

White Goyim really do love you. Our hatred for you exists 99% within the realms of your own diseased imaginations. Even I do not hate you, but I will defend my interests, which may or may not conflict with yours.

All of the above raises the question: Why are you so determined to defile and destroy this country, whose Goyim have complied with all your wishes, so far? Marcus Eli Ravage stated that we can do nothing to satisfy you. Neither our productivity nor our extinction would appear to satisfy you. This dilemma means that The Jewish Problem is really your problem, not ours. We do not oppose you; you oppose yourselves, as you have done from the beginning. You are eternally the doers of your own undoing. To see things from your viewpoint: How can a farmer be undone by his own livestock? Your own view of us makes you out to be a bunch of bungling, incompetent fools. Rabid fools, at that.

Mark Vonnegut wrote of the insidious nature of mental illness in his autobiographical book, "Eden Express". Where the sufferer begins and the illness leaves off is impossible to ascertain. His schizophrenia was cured by a high-protein diet, which is not to say that other forms of mental illness are similarly curable, especially those engendered by indoctrination.

As you observe, I have done my best to see the world through your eyes, and now, I invite you to see things through mine, the eyes of an Aryan. My view of the universe is quite congenial. If the universe were hostile, I would not exist, nor would you. I do not combat Nature. I am sustained by Nature, as you are, even when you claim to 'conquer' Her. I am at home on this planet. My fellow creatures all have their roles in the scheme of things. I do not fear or loathe other life forms. I respect then as teachers and I appreciate their beauty and their virtue. I am no more ashamed of being a predator, a meat-eater, than they are. In human conflict I am always prepared to win, lose or draw. All my opponents I consider 'worthy' in their own right, regardless of the weapons and tactics they choose to use against me. In struggles with opponents I neither forgive, nor do I bear grudges, for neither are relevant to me when the question is one of survival. For me, death is natural and inevitable, sooner or later. This awareness enhances the value of my life and makes the moments precious. I am therefore reluctant to spend my limited time in the pursuit of material possessions,including money. I seek quality instead of quantity, and I admit my inability to put a price on a sunset or a birdsong in the morning. I am stirred by the swells of the sea, and the wind in my face, as it makes the pines whisper, for such things remind me of my connection with the universe. They fill me with energy, inspiration and strength, as well as peace of mind. I am revolted by the bleating sheeple in the Christian fart-halls, as I am by the wailing and haggling in the synagogues. I enjoy others' company, as well as my own, just an I appreciate conversation and silent contemplation. I do not wish to insult nor demean those with whom I share differences of opinion. Rather, I seek to inform and to be informed. Everyone has something to teach not regardless of his wealth or lack thereof, and regardless of his academic achievements. I am not interested in ruling others, unless it is absolutely necessary, and I have no wish to ruin anybody, for ruin is usually brought upon oneself, without my assistance. I despise confidence tricksters, in comparison to armed robbers, who steal the victim's money, but not his trust. I believe that duty is sacred and that the desire for 'something for nothing' is both immoral and foolish. If I trip on the stairs, I know the fault was mine, and not the 'malevolence' of the universe. I care nothing for your 'god', nor for your ways. I do not wish to take over your rackets, nor do I wish to be victimized by them. I do not intend to play sadist to your masochist, nor vice versa.

For just one moment, imagine that you are not nearly so inferior, nor as important as you have been indoctrinated into thinking. In this moment, your paranoia will subside. Without prejudice, examine the many rules and tenets of Judaism, and you will recognize them as manifestations of compulsion neuroses. Dr. A. F. Stein described Judaism as "a group fantasy", which would apply to any people's religion. Fantasy is derived from dreams. That makes it incumbent upon all of us to "dream better dreams", in the words of Mark Twain. I sincerely hope you get well, soon. Mazel tov!


THE LUNATICS OF ZION
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Jewish Studies - Home Page


http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/mental1.htm
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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:16:35 pm
zaphod

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   posted 01-01-2006 08:43 PM                       
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Hey guys, Alexandria? Library? Possible locations of such? Anyone still remember this topic?   
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:16:57 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-01-2006 08:45 PM                       
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True, to waste knowledge is a pity such as Aristophanes opened the door to Hades for Socrates.

I understand where other's say the Library is,and some of the maps they draw. I just need to re-read and absorb what the old authors were saying to better understand where it may be with Google Earth.

Some say southwest some say northeast, most say royal district...., or the Ships in the harbour set fire to it, near the shore?, or flying embers elsewhere?.

Luckily we know where the old district is...

Sadly, a new civilization is there to cover the harbors aged tracks like Critias....

I would say either way, that old impending doom of warfare was prevailent, so I would jest to say that the most important books secretly escaped according to fates of the muses, say to Sicily, or Naucratis, or The Oracle of Ammon.......or all after, became a secret in itself.

In other words, dismantled and hidden from time by fate of the line of blood from brine.

Happy New Year Faith

I'll be sure to keep in touch when I find the library. 

What do you feel was the real outcome for Alexandria?

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4073 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:17:33 pm
 
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-01-2006 09:05 PM                       
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And a Very Happy New Year to You Jean Starling.

May your beauty grace the pages of time.

Thanks for those cool pictures of the Atlanteans in Americas.

I saved every one!

So little time, so many discoveries to be made... :)

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4073 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:18:05 pm
 
+Faith+

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   posted 01-01-2006 09:23 PM                       
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Happy New Year to you, too, Riven!

You asked about the final outcome for the library.

Welli, in my opinion, the Muslims were responsible for the final destruction of it. It makes sense, they had a habit of destroying or looting all the previous artifacts in these lands from the pre-Christian era. The statue of Zeus was carted off, later to be destroyed in a fire, as were the pieces of the Colossus of Rhodes, which was supposedly carted away with one hundred camels and then melted down by the Muslims. Any knowledge by people of Islam was considered useless and so it was typical of them to destroy it. It's fashionable these days to blame the Christians, but the Muslims were far more likely responsible.

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Posts: 159 | Registered: Dec 2005 
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:18:42 pm
Sarah

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   posted 01-01-2006 11:42 PM                       
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Your words don't offend me, Absonite, each response you give here only shows how bigoted you are. Anti-semetic, too, I take it? Well, there's a revelation.

Anyway, to spare this topic any further abuse, I have opened a new one wherein I will show those interested parties what the Urantia Book truly is (although I doubt few are even interested in it), while you can continue to protest that it is the path to greater enlightenment.

Good luck with that.

[ 01-01-2006, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Sarah ]

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"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:19:21 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-02-2006 12:30 AM                       
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Truth is your speach Faith;

The Muslims were a factor from 1000.bC along with the Phoenicians to the edge of Europe and Morroco and the dreaded Fez caps.

The True Christians would never destroy such works, especialy Rome and Greece, only a traitor would.

But it doesn't seem that the Assyrians would pose a great threat to the library also, for I revealed how Darius allowed Uadjahor-Resne, to preserve Sais and the Temple of Neith.

The archaeological evidence clearly shows the merging of Assyrian Sumer with Egypt, so much so, the Assyrians thought themselves Egyptian.

The biggest threat would have to be Constantine and The Black Priests, a culture different than the Sumer Assyrians ca 330.aD.


quote:
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Of Constantine's sons the eldest, Constantine II, showed decided leanings to heathenism, and his coins bear many pagan emblems; the second and favourite son, Constantius, was a more pronounced Christian, but it was Arian Christianity to which he adhered. Constantius was an unwavering opponent of paganism; he closed all the temples and forbade sacrifices under pain of death. His maxim was: "Cesset superstitio; sacrificiorum aboleatur insania" (Let superstition cease; let the folly of sacrifices be abolished). Their successors had recourse to religious persecution against heretics and pagans. Their laws (Cod. Theod., XVI, v) had an unfavourable influence on the Middle Ages and were the basis of the much-abused Inquisition. (See PERSECUTIONS; CONSTANTINOPLE; ROMAN EMPIRE.)
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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04295c.htm

The Nicene Creed
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm


quote:
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Soon after the Council of Nicaea new formulas of faith were composed, most of them variations of the Nicene Symbol, to meet new phases of Arianism. There were at least four before the Council of Sardica in 341, and in that council a new form was presented and inserted in the Acts, though not accepted by the council. The Nicene Symbol, however, continued to be the only one in use among the defenders of the Faith. Gradually it came to be recognized as the proper profession of faith for candidates for baptism. Its alteration into the Nicene-Constantinopolitan formula, the one now in use, in usually ascribed to the Council of Constantinople, since the Council of Chalcedon (451), which designated this symbol as "The Creed of the Council of Constantinople of 381" had it twice read and inserted in its Acts. The historians Socrates, Sozomen, and Theodoret do not mention this, although they do record that the bishops who remained at the council after the departure of the Macedonians confirmed the Nicene faith. Hefele (II,9) admits the possibility of our present creed being a condensation of the "Tome" ( Gr. tomos), i.e. the exposition of the doctrines concerning the Trinity made by the Council of Constantinople; but he prefers the opinion of Rémi Ceillier and Tillemont tracing the new formula to the "Ancoratus" of Epiphanius written in 374. Hort, Caspari, Harnack, and others are of the opinion that the Constantinopolitan form did not originate at the Council of Constantinople, because it is not in the Acts of the council of 381, but was inserted there at a later date; because Gregory Nazianzen who was at the council mentions only the Nicene formula adverting to its incompleteness about the Holy Ghost, showing that he did not know of the Constantinopolitan form which supplies this deficiency; and because the Latin Fathers apparently know nothing of it before the middle of the fifth century.
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Another factor is that Alexandria did not perish like Naucratis, instead, it grew.

That could have been the cause for these extremist religions to burn down Alexandria or hide it from us with Arian intervention.

Then again, what happens to Christianity?

The same thing that happened to Paganism and Venus and Women.

They become suppressed like Atlantis.

Those people, had the power to re-write the Bible, let alone a Library.

Another thing is certain also, one of the major Study areas around the time of Alexander and 332.bC, was Syracuse,Italy, where greats like Plato, and Chalcidius, and later Augustus and Emperors of Rome studied to learn initiated secrets of the Pythagoreans.

It is possible that Plato wrote Timaeus here when he was also trying to juggle the precarious balance of Dionysus and Carthage.

So much of what was hidden in Alexandria should be with us, out there hidden, very much the same as Timaeus was hiding Atlantis, for the initiates.

Then we have the Great Library at Aleppo, which I wouldn't doubt would have books bound by true blood.

So if most of those books are out there, in different languages, then the secret books should be preserved, along with Thoth's.

I could not see how these men could not possess the Book of Thoth by now....

Then again, seems like they don't.....  hee hee.
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Posts: 4073 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:20:11 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-02-2006 12:48 AM                       
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Phoenicia.

It is only in the East, my dear Faith, that men are truly ashamed of their Women to veil their faces in public and ridicule.

Dark, evil, such as the true meaning of Hebre..

dull, boring, simple.

In the West, we are not afraid to Love our Women and praise them, for we are human.

Think about that.

That's the kind of heart, which would destroy a library of history.

[ 01-02-2006, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000534;p=5


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:25:40 pm
 
Europa

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   posted 01-02-2006 03:16 AM                       
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Happy New Year to Riven, Jean, George, Sarah, Faith & everyone!

Let's lighten the mood a little around here:


quote:
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Ancients Rang In New Year with Dance, Beer
By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News


Dec. 30, 2005 — Many ancient Egyptians marked the first month of the New Year by singing, dancing and drinking red beer until they passed out, according to archaeologists who have unearthed new evidence of a ritual known as the Festival of Drunkenness.

During ongoing excavations at a temple precinct in Luxor that is dedicated to the goddess Mut, the archaeologists recently found a sandstone column drum dating to 1470-1460 B.C. with writing that mentions the festival.

The discovery suggests how some Egyptians over 3,000 years ago began their New Year, which for them started around the end of August to coincide with seasonal, desired flooding that drenched farmlands where they would grow crops, such as barley and wheat. The Festival of Drunkenness usually occurred 20 days after the first big flood.

While drinking and dancing are part of many modern New Year's celebrations, the early Egyptians probably would have disapproved of the partying because they viewed such activities in a very different light.

"The Festival of Drunkenness was not a social occasion for them," said Betsy Bryan, who led the dig. "People did not come to enjoy themselves. They drank to enter an altered state so that they might witness the epiphany of a deity."

Bryan, who is chair of the Near Eastern Studies Department at Johns Hopkins University, added, "In general, the ancient Egyptians frowned upon drunkenness, but they would come together to drink for a specific purpose."

She told Discovery News that written references to the festival date to several thousand years ago, but the writing on the newly discovered sandstone column drum is one of the first pieces of evidence to directly link the festival to an Egyptian leader and to a temple location.

In this case, the leader is the female pharaoh Hatshepsut, who reigned for close to 20 years in the fifteenth century B.C. The column reads, "She (Hatshepsut) made it (the temple) as a monument for her mother Mut Mistress of Isheru, making for her a columned porch of drunkenness anew, so that she might do as one who is given life forever."

The findings are published in the new book "Hatshepsut: From Queen to Pharaoh," which contains writings that were compiled by the Metropolitan Museum of Art. The book coincides with an exhibit on Hatshepsut that currently is at San Francisco's de Young Museum.

According to Bryan, the Festival of Drunkenness began with attendees appeasing a lion goddess deity, such as Mut, with red beer that received its color from red ochre.

A myth called the "Destruction of Mankind" suggested that if a goddess became drunk on red beer, she would no longer slaughter humans. The ancient Egyptians, therefore, believed that the colorful brew was associated with salvation.

Liturgical psalms used during the festival suggest that the goddess — probably depicted on a statue — was enthroned in the temple and then transported through a hall before being carried to the temple's front court. It was here that celebrants became inebriated, sang, danced, engaged in sexual activity, and waited to see the goddess.

"One commonality with modern celebrations is that they would have a 'designated driver' who was supposed to stay sober throughout the event to make sure that others were taken care of," said Bryan.
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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20051226/drunkegypt_arc.html

[ 01-02-2006, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: Europa ]
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:27:37 pm
 
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  posted 01-02-2006 06:31 AM                       
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Riven,

I doubt that they truely hate their women, the answer lies deeper than that. I think it lies in their koran and their societal roles and beliefs and tradition. What is amazing is that the women have put up with it for so long. The Jews treated their women just as bad, as probably did most societies. They treat them as slaves instead of equal partners. Even in America it is only recently that women have had somewhat equal rights.
Men and women are inherently different with different roles endowed by their creator. The development process is an ongoing one and even here we are still producing "Jaded" mindsets of rabid feminism. The process is still evolving as women are still seeking their identity and proper roles in society. The muslims are at least a thousand years behind the rest of the world.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:27:56 pm
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Actually, Mohamad with the Koran improved for the most part the role of woman in those days.(as sad as that may sound). Before the Koran, with all the warring tribes, woman were left husbandless, and woman were totaly dependent on man,so mohamad instituted the culter of multi-wives (women didn't work) to take care all these widows.There is more, and some things were done to the detrement of woman, but most historians would say over all, Mohamad had benefited woman.

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KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2008, 01:29:40 pm
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The Muslims were a factor from 1000.bC along with the Phoenicians to the edge of Europe and Morroco and the dreaded Fez caps.

The True Christians would never destroy such works, especialy Rome and Greece, only a traitor would.

The biggest threat would have to be Constantine and The Black Priests, a culture different than the Sumer Assyrians ca 330.aD.

It is only in the East, my dear Faith, that men are truly ashamed of their Women to veil their faces in public and ridicule.

Dark, evil, such as the true meaning of Hebre..

That's the kind of heart, which would destroy a library of history.

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Riven, how could the Muslims be a threat from 1000 BCE, when Islam was only founded in c.600 BCE?

And so, you think the true meaning of Hebrew is "dark and evil"?

And only the Muslims could destroy the library, according to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction_of_the_Great_Library

Read.


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 There are also allegations dating to medieval times that claim that Caliph Omar, during an invasion in the 7th century, ordered the Library to be destroyed, but these claims are generally regarded as a Christian attack on Muslims, and include many indications of fabrication, such as the claim that the contents of the Library took six months to burn in Alexandria's public baths.
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 There is a growing consensus among historians that the Library of Alexandria likely suffered from several destructive events, but that the destruction of Alexandria's pagan temples in the late 4th century [by Christians] was probably the most severe and final one.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:21:05 pm
 
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Wilkipedia is a joke.

I would not rely on it to defend a torte.

You could apply a natural 500+/- to any Carbon dating, including Kings lists, so 1000.bC is a safe approximation.

Interesting to note that the spread of the Muslims also parallels the spread of the Phoenicians who subjugated Carthage and Gades,Spain.

The point is not so much Muslims, but rather Phoenicians and groups of, from Tyre and Byblos.

Basicaly, this change came about since the invasion and subjugation of the Hyksos ca 1650.bC, and later the Ramses Kings who "Sold Out" to the Persians and the two became integrated through marriages and bloodlines... hence the gradual downfall of Egypt, and as you can see, the many parallels to arise in The Bible from Arian Intervention.

The main point however are these inbred philosophies and barbaric personalities that lead to immoral actions upon fellow humans, or a "HATRED" divine to Evil.

This same doctrine is hidden in our perceptions of society through media, a media very much from those same people to generate money, such as the almost 3 Trillion dollars(Rense.com) unaccounted for by the US Army, and the ploys of wars and justice to "Syphon" money.

It wasn't until Tyson became Islamic, that he bit off Hoylfields ear. 

These are not people who think before they speak, therefore they are quick to smite thee with their sabres and low mentality for fellow humans and the world as a whole because of their self rightousness.

As I said, this is part of the problem with man's Evils to claim God as his own with no consolidation for fellow humans and their beliefs.

On the upside, this is part of the purpose of English becoming our Earth language,for mankind to naturaly accept One God and integrate religions to a common and practical sense of Scientific and Spiritual Knowledge with a simple message of "be careful and be good" to prosper.

When we have this, we will have World Peace and less prosecution from our fellow neighbours.

It is not the "Jews" who formed around 1300.bC (also in parallel with the Phoenician movements) that are at fault, but rather.........

The Black Priests from the Blood of Brine and their followers, some people, even Jews, testify that these are Zionists who are also known as the "Dark Brothers" or "The Black Hand".

You see, the Palestineans (oldest original neighbours from Egyptian/Arabian mixtures) were pushed North and stripped of their dignity and history that their trade interactions and pottery from 4000.bC found in Egypt testify to.

Isn't it funny that "Hamitic" or Ham, is actualy a Hebrew word for "Slave" and "Adamite" is a man of Steel?

You see, that's why the Greeks had no choice but to see and why they can only remember their History to Homer and 800.bC....see.

These wheels of change were already implemented by Sesostris II ca 1860.bC when he subjugated Crete, and Greece.

The Hercules of Egypt.

To add insult to injury, then came the "Renaissance" and "Mid-evil" times and later the Scientific Societist propaganda of Germany from the 20's and onward to Hitler....another Blood of Brine.

So you can see how difficult it would be to say what Books are from Alexandria and which books were "conformed" like the Myths.

"For one to sail the Ship of Ulysses......"

I would say look to Sicily and Aleppo for clues to those books of Alexandria.

As for Oxyrynchus, it would be the equivalent of Wilkipedia.

Not to be trusted in it's entirety.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:21:25 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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Wikipedia is a good measuring of the consensus of people. And that particular information can be found throughout history.

And why are you stereotyping Muslims? Don't forget that it was what you call their "low mentality" that preserved Greek and Roman learning, bringing Europe out of the Dark Age.

And where on Earth did you get "Blood of Brine" from? Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:21:54 pm
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Riven, I have looked a little more into who destroyed the Library of Alexandria and believe that the Christians (as usual) have been unfairly maligned in it's destruction.

It's fashionable these days to blame the Christians for everything, but clearly, the Muslims were most responsible:

ALEXANDRIA HISTORY
332 BCE: Founded by the Macedonian king, Alexander the Great, near the fishing village Rhakotis. This act was directed both by political and commercial interests, since the location offered a natural harbour. The harbour facilities were enhanced through the construction of a 1.6 km pier out to the island of Pharos. On Pharos, a lighthouse was erected, which soon came to be considered one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
323 BCE: Alexander the Great is buried in Alexandria.
305 BCE: Alexandria is made the capital of the kingdom of the Ptolomies.
3rd century BCE: The library of Alexandria is reported to consist of 500,000 volumes.
31 BCE: Ptolemaic forces are beaten by the Romans, and Alexandria falls under Roman control.
116 CE: A revolt among local Jews leads to an annihilation of the Jewish community, and heavy destruction of the city.
215: An ordering to massacre the male population of Alexandria is given by the Roman emperor, Caracalla.
284: Strong persecution of the Christians, and thousands are killed. According to the history of the Coptic church, 144,000 were killed.
4th century: Alexandria is weakened by insurrection, civil war, famine and disease.
391: The Coptic Patriarch instigates violent actions upon the pagan communities in Alexandria, and the temple and library of Serapis are sacked. Among those killed is the famous female scholar Hypatia.
638: Alexandria is besieged and destroyed by Muslim troops, and then abandoned.
646: Alexandria is once again put under Muslim attack, and heavily destroyed. After conquering the city, the Muslims give little attention to Alexandria, and the real decline of the city begins.
968: With the establishment of Cairo as capital and cultural centre, Alexandria loses forever its position as the most important city of Egypt.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/alexandr.htm

You can see that they invaded and destroyed the city twice according to the timeline.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:22:38 pm
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And the book, "Slavery, Treason & Islam" would seem to put to rest the idea that not only did the Muslims not destroy libraries (they did), but that Islam is an enlightened religion:

JUST THE FACTS
Slavery, Terrorism and Islam exposes the falsehood of these and other prevalent myths propagated about Islam. Far from Islam being a great religion of learning, tolerance and peace, this book presents the historical facts, and sets the record straight. Muhammad declared that if other books confirmed what was in the Quran then they didn't need them. And if the books did not confirm what was in the Quran they didn't want them. So the order was: Burn them! The Muslims burned libraries all across North Africa and the Middle East. They burned the library of Alexandria - the largest library in the world at that time. It probably included original copies of the Bible and other priceless manuscripts.

A TRAIL OF DESTRUCTION
Over 3200 churches were destroyed or converted into mosques during the first century of Islamic Jihad alone. During the Muslim invasion of Syria in AD 634 thousands of Christians were massacred. As Mesopotamia was conquered between AD 635 and 643 many churches and monasteries were ransacked, and ministers and Christians slain. In the conquest of Egypt AD 640 and 641, the towns of Behnesa, Fayum, Nikiu and Aboit were all put to the sword. When the Muslims invaded Cyprus, they looted and pillaged homes and churches and massacred much of the population. In North Africa, when Tripoli was captured in AD 643, all the Jews and Christians were forced to hand their women and children over as slaves. When Carthage was captured, it was burned to the ground and most of its inhabitants slaughtered.

Beginning in AD 712 the Muslim armies invaded India. They smashed and demolished temples, plundered palaces, slaughtered millions of Indian men and enslaved the women and children. The ancient cities of Baranasai Mathura, Uggain, Maheshwar, Jwalamukhi and Dwarka were sacked, the populations massacred, and not one temple left standing.

“THE BLOODIEST STORY IN HISTORY”
Will Durant in his The Story of Civilisations, describes the Muslim invasion of India as “probably the bloodiest story in history.” The North Western region of India is called the Hindu Kush (“the slaughter of the Hindu”) as a reminder of the vast number of Hindu slaves who died while being marched across the Afghan Mountains to the Muslim slave markets in Central Asia. The Buddhists were also targeted for destruction. In AD 1193 Muhammad Khilji burned to the ground their famous library and the Buddhist stronghold of Bihar.

Shah Jahan is remembered as the builder of the Taj Mahal. What few Westerners know is that the builder of the Taj Mahal launched 48 military campaigns against non-Muslims in just 30 years. In AD 1628 he killed all his male relatives. Shah Jahan had 5,000 concubines in his harem but also indulged in incestuous sex with his daughters. In just one town, Banares, Jahan destroyed 76 Hindu temples. He also demolished Christian churches at Agra and Lahore. When he captured Hugh, a Portuguese enclave near Calcutta, he had 10,000 inhabitants “blown up with powder, drowned in water or burned by fire.” Another 4,000 were enslaved and offered Islam or death. Those who refused to convert were killed.

SPAIN UNDER THE MOORS
Neither was Spain under the Muslim Moors the jewel of Islamic tolerance that it is often purported to be. In AD 920 all the inhabitants of Muez were put to the sword. Cordova, Zarajoza and Merida were burned to the ground, with all adult males executed and all women and children enslaved. In AD 1066 all the Jews of Grenada were slaughtered. In AD 1126, all the Christians of Grenada were deported to Morocco.

In AD 1009, Kalif Hakem of Egypt ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulchre and all Christian places of worship in Jerusalem. Christians were persecuted cruelly and pilgrims were attacked.

http://www.frontline.org.za/news/end_of_islam.htm

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:23:07 pm
 
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   posted 01-03-2006 01:57 AM                       
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I've looked into this, too. Who doesn't love the ancient Library of Alexandria?



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Properly, the Mouseion was a shrine of the Muses, the goddesses of literature and the arts, and its head was a priest of the Muses, first nominated by the kings of Egypt, and later by the Roman emperors. We believe that the facility was dedicated in about 300 BC, but it was Soter's successor, Ptolemy II Philadelphus, who called the most learned men in all fields to come to Alexandria and lecture. They did come, mostly from Athens, the largest number of whom were scientists and philosophers. For many years, illustrious scholars arrived in Alexandria and lived under the patronage of the Ptolemies, free from want and taxes. They studied, wrote, collated manuscripts, researched, lectured and theorized in their respective disciplines. The German historian, Ferdinand Gregorovius wrote that:

"This unique establishment diffused a splendor over the civilized world which lasted longer than any other university, whether Paris, Bologna or Padua. Long after the creative power of Greek genius was exhausted, encyclopedic knowledge and Greek sophistry were to be found in the Mouseion of Alexandria."

Undoubtedly, many of the scholars came to the university because of the great library, which offered to its privileged fellows, and subsequently to all the scholars of the world, the resources of the first real, and the most comprehensive and innovative, collection of intellectual materials ever assembled during antiquity. Hence, this library became the central attraction for writers, teachers and scientists from every part of the world.

Ptolemy sought to collect and bring to Alexandria "the books of all the peoples of the world", which he estimated would require some five hundred thousand scrolls. Ptolemy composed a letter "to all the sovereigns and governors on earth", imploring them "not to hesitate to send him" works by authors of every kind, including "poets and prose-writers, rhetoricians and sophists, doctors and soothsayers, historians, and all the others too". He gave orders that any books on board ships calling at Alexandria were to be copied, and only the copies returned to the owners. Eventually, the library is thought to have contained some six hundred to seven hundred thousand volumes. This massive collection of books and scrolls was not limited to Greek and Roman works. Oriental writings were translated into Greek and placed in the Library, as were ancient Egyptian texts, the Hebrew Scriptures and writing ascribed to the Persian prophet, Zoroaster. There were 123 plays by Sophocles and others by Aeschylus and Eurepides. It contained a history of the world from the time of the Biblical Flood written by Prossos, a Babylonian monk. Prossos dated the Flood to 433,000 years before his time.

The Ptolemies spared no expense in gathering works for the Library. The legendary physician, Galen, inferred that Ptolemy borrowed the original copy of the works of the great Athenian tragic poets in order to have them copied. Ptolemy was required to make a deposit in the sum of fifteen gold talents, but when the work was completed, he chose to forfeit his money and instead sent back the copies to Athens, retaining the originals.

The Mouseion, the great library and their scholars, who at times even included the Egyptian kings (Ptolemy I Soter, for example, was himself a historian who wrote a worthy first hand account of Alexander's campaigns), became the fabric in which Alexandria was cloaked. Alexandria's history is one of intellectualism, which was integral to its ancient personality. The library's first curator and director was Demetrius Phalereus, a distinguished Athenian scholar who was also instrumental in creating the Mouseion itself. Demetrius was a member of the Peripatic school and a former Athenian politician who sought refuge in Alexandria after his fall from power in Athens. It was he who advised the king to "collect together books on kingship and the exercise of power, and to read them". He became so intimate with the king that he was called "the first of his friends", and was even credited with inspiring the laws enacted by Ptolemy. Thus Alexandria became not only the capital of Egypt, but also of the scholarly world, with the Great Library and the Mouseion at its center.

The Mouseion was thought to be divided into schools similar to modern universities, and in each of these, various scholars produced notable works. It would be difficult to note all of the scholars but, for example, Apollonius (262-190 BC) studied the cone sections (parabola, ellipse and hyperbola) which later helped the German astronomer Johannes Kepler identify the orbits of the planets.

In the fields of mathematics and geometry, Euclid (300 BC), in his book The Elements, laid the foundations of mathematics, geometry and mathematical logic. His teachings were still taught up until the 20th century. In time, The Elements was translated into many languages and it is said that after reading the book, the great thinker Isaac Newton was changed forever. In the 20th century another form of geometry was innovated. We now have Euclidian and non-Euclidian geometry.

In medicine Herophilus (335-280 BC), considered the father of anatomy, laid down the scientific bases of medicine. He proved that the brain and not the liver or the heart was the cause of feelings and emotion. He also described and named the duodenum and the prostate. He laid down the basics of gynecology and said that the menses was not a disease but a normal condition. He measured the pulse, and described the thick membranes (dura mater) that cover the brain, and gave his name to a part of it (torcular herophili). Herophilus also described a part of the cerebellum and called it calamus scriptorius, because it looked like a writing pen (the word calamus reminds us of the Arabic word qalam, which means pen, and of the Greek word for squid, calamari, which spurts ink when attacked).

Erasistratus (276-195 BC), known as the father of physiology, described the nervous system and the epiglottis. He also identified, described and named the tricuspid valve of the heart.

In the field of geography, Eratosthenes proved the earth was spherical and measured its circumference by an ingenious but quite simple method. His calculation was within one percent of the present measurement. He noticed that at noon on 21 June of each year, the sun was vertical at Cyene (Syene, now Aswan). At that exact time, the tall obelisks of Cyene did not cast shadows and one could see the sun reflected on the water in deep wells. He assumed that the rays of the sun traveled in parallel paths and that, if the earth was flat, then a planted vertical stick in Alexandria would also fail to produce a shadow. But to his surprise the stick in Alexandria did cast a shadow. From the angle of the shadow and the distance between Alexandria and Cyene he calculated the circumference of the earth. This achievement was his ticket to greatness. Following his discoveries, maps were drawn in a spherical form, allowing later navigators to sail round the world.

Hipparchus (190-125 BC) defined latitude and longitude. Claudius Ptolemy (85-165 AD, who was no kin to the governing dynasty, added many details to the geography of the earth in his book, translated in Arabic as Al-Majesty. Yet most of the work of Ptolemy was copied directly from the books of other scientists. Newton would later describe this plagiarism very frankly, calling it "an immoral crime committed against his colleagues and against science".

Eratosthenes compiled one of the first histories that was not colored by superstition and legend.

Pappus (circa 320 AD) wrote his famous book Synagogue (meaning "conference", not the Jewish temple) in which he outlined the history of the Mouseion and its scientists.

In Astronomy, Aristarcus of Samos (310-230 BC) was the first astronomer to prove heliocentricity (as against geocentricity). He was persecuted by the religious authorities, who refused to believe that the earth and planets circled the sun and not the other way around. This theory was later proven again by the Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus. Copernicus admitted in his early writings the effect of Aristarcus's work on his thinking, but later failed to mention it.

Archimedes (287-212 BC) spent a good part of his life at the Mouseion, and is considered one of the three greatest mathematicians of all time (Newton and Gauss being the other two). Archimedes added profusely to Integral Calculus, and also laid the foundations of Differential Calculus. He discovered the laws of governing the relation between a sphere and its surrounding cylinder and the measurement of the surface area of a ball. Through his discovery of the rule of floating and sinking objects it became possible to study specific gravity. He also discovered the laws of levers, and determined a more accurate value for ¹, the number that identifies the relationship between the circumference and diameter of a circle.

In its later years, the Mouseion had an important faculty of philosophy. Early on it adopted the philosophy of the Peripatetics, and later that of the Stoics. Platonius started the school of Neoplatonism, later presided over by Hypatia, the daughter of Theon, the last director of the Mouseion and a brilliant mathematician.

Many Egyptians came to study at the Mouseion, and many became staff members. The most famous of these was Manetho of Sebennytos, an Egyptian monk of the early 3rd century BC, during the reign of Ptolemy I and II. In 250 BC, Manetho compiled a three-volume book, “Aegyptica”, in which he divided the dynastic periods of the ancient Egyptian kingdom (after unification by Menes) into thirty dynasties, the first starting in 3150 BC, and the last ending by the Macedonian conquest by Alexander the Great in 332 BC. Manetho also wrote about the “pre-dynastic period” but in a rather mythical fashion, including the time when Egypt was ruled by gods, demigods, the spirits of dead and finally the mortal kings. Unfortunately those books were lost, but parts of their material have reached us through later scholars such as the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in AD 60, Christian writers such as Julius Africanus in AD 300, Eusebius in AD 340, and George Syncellus in AD 800. Also, “Horapollon the philosopher" originally came from Upper Egypt to study in Alexandria, and later became head of the pagan school. His father too had been a professor at Alexandria before him.

We know very little about the Mouseion's demise, and very little about the end of the famous library, though its loss must be considered one of the greatest sorrows of mankind's history. Some believe that the library may have been destroyed accidentally during the Alexandria War when Caesar set ablaze some sixty ships of Ptolemy's fleet riding at anchor in the port. This fire spread to other parts of the city. This obviously included houses and buildings near the waterfront. It was reported that books were stored in some of these buildings, and apparently the fire may have been fueled by some forty thousand of them. However, the Library was within the palace walls, protected by sturdy stone buildings, and it is doubtful that this fire could have harmed its books. If indeed these books were destroyed, they were almost certainly scrolls destined to be shipped into or out of Egypt.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:23:44 pm
 
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In addition, the Mouseion certainly survived this fire, and seems to have continued to function in a regular manner, which it probably could not have done had the library been destroyed by Caesar's fire. In fact, most of the writers that recount this story are at least somewhat removed from the time period. Seneca was the first writer to mention it, some one hundred years afterwards, and many writers fail to mention the destruction of scrolls at all. Furthermore, the continued existence of the Library is also supported by an ancient inscription found in the early 20th century, dedicated to Tiberius Claudius Balbillus of Rome (d. 56 CE). As noted in the "Handbuch der Bibliothekswissenschaft" (Georg Leyh, Wiesbaden 1955):

"We have to understand the office which Ti. Claudius Balbillus held [...], which included the title 'supra Museum et ab Alexandrina bibliotheca', to have combined the direction of the Museum with that of the united libraries, as an academy."

Legend also has it that the Library found its end in the Arab invasion. However, by this time, it is believed that the great books collected by the Ptolemies had probably already been lost, and many believe this account to mostly be an early Christian propaganda attack on the Muslim invaders. Also this was refuted 200 years ago by, among others, Edward Gibbon in his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, when he asserts that the tale was invented 600 years after the supposed event by an apologist for Salaheddin, the chronicler Abdel-Latif Al-Boghdadi. On his victorious entry into Cairo in 1171 Salaheddin had burned Shi'ite books, and had consequently been scorned for destroying sacred literature. Gibbon believed that the library- burning story was planted to prove there had been a precedent for Salaheddin's iconoclasm.

In fact, the Muslim invasion was not, strictly speaking, Egypt's first Arab invasion. During the Roman times of Aurelian, Queen Zenobia, an Arab from Palmyra who claimed descent from Cleopatra, had captured Alexandria, only to lose it again to the Emperor Aurelian. However, in the course of Aurelian's campaign, the Royal Quarters were seriously damaged. A few years later, the city was completely sacked by Diocletian. Hence, many scholars believe that if the Muslims did destroyed any books, they may have only been second rate replacements of earlier lost editions. In fact, many believe that, rather than destroying the scientific books they found, the Arabs preserved many of them until they could be translated into Arabic. After all, during the dark age in Europe, the Arabic world became the center of enlightenment.

In reality, there is a growing consensus among historians that the Library of Alexandria likely suffered from several destructive events, but that the destruction of Alexandria's pagan temples in the late 4th century was probably the most severe and final one. The evidence for that destruction is the most definitive and secure.

One certainty is that the "Daughter Library" at the Serapeum (the Temple of Serapis) was sacked during the Jewish revolt of 115 AD, and again destroyed by the monks of Theophilus in 391. It is entirely possible that the Great Library may have fallen victim to the same campaign, though we know with certainty that the Mouseion functioned for some time afterwards.

Civil wars, decreasing investments in maintenance and acquisition of new scrolls and generally declining interest in non-religious pursuits likely contributed to a reduction in the body of material available in the Library, especially in the fourth century. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that many of the scrolls could have been sold off or otherwise moved to other locations.

If indeed a Christian mob (there were no shortages of mobs of every kind in ancient Alexandria) was responsible for the destruction of the Library, it is to be expected that such an act embarrassed later generations, who may have decided to alter or not to preserve the historical records in order to conceal it. In any case, both the contradictions in the historical record and the lack of a definitive account of the destruction of the Library in pre-Christian times are striking, given that it was the goal of Christian writers such as Orosius to highlight such evidence wherever they could find it.

As for the Mouseion, Mostafa El-Abbadi writes in Life and Fate of the ancient Library of Alexandria (Paris 1992):

"The Mouseion, being at the same time a 'shrine of the Muses', enjoyed a degree of sanctity as long as other pagan temples remained unmolested. Synesius of Cyrene, who studied under Hypatia at the end of the fourth century, saw the Mouseion and described the images of the philosophers in it. We have no later reference to its existence in the fifth century. As Theon, the distinguished mathematician and father of Hypatia, herself a renowned scholar, was the last recorded scholar-member (c. 380), it is likely that the Mouseion did not long survive the promulgation of Theodosius' decree in 391 to destroy all pagan temples in the City."

Of course, stone buildings and the scholars who inhabit them cannot be destroyed or displaced as easily as books. Undoubtedly, the end of the Mouseion itself is wrapped up in the stories of Hypatia and the Christian patriarch Cyril, together with the Alexandria infamous mob. Hypatia was initiated early into her father's studies, including philosophy and mathematics at the university. She was a brilliant student who later assisted her father in his voluminous writings on Euclid and Porphyry. She eventually became the recognized head of Neoplatonic studies, and students from every corner of the world competed for her classes. It is also said that, in addition to her searing intelligence, her eloquence and rare beauty made her remarkable and legendary for her time.

However, various evidence suggests that she devoted much of her efforts to astronomy and mathematics, and that even her philosophical opinions embraced the intellectual rather than the mystical side of Neoplatonism.

Within Alexandria, a division took place that on the one hand, included the Roman prefect, Orestes, who was in fact a Christian, although his supporters included not only Christians and high government officials, but also the esteemed Jewish leaders of the city, many of whom had been students of Hypatia. On the other side stood the Christian patriarch, Cyril and his staunch adherents, including the orthodox faithful of the city and the hundreds of Nitrian monks under his jurisdiction. In the following account, there is perhaps some bias. Cyril is not always looked upon with such harshness as these events might indicate. For any shortcomings he might have had, he nevertheless played a very important role in the early Christian Church.

Hypatia was much loved in the city, and even glorified. She was bestowed with many civic honors and was considered one of the pillars of Alexandria, while Cyril was scorned and mocked from the day he was chosen patriarch. An envious man, he began to spread vicious lies portraying Hypatia as a witch with powers of sorcery and black magic. He even managed to convince many of his followers that the Roman prefect Orestes was the first person victimized by her spells. It seems that Orestes had curtailed some of his daily devotions as a Christian and was often seen in her company, along with many of the Jewish citizens.

Cyril began by focusing his attention on the Jewish citizens. Some of the Jews were attending the theater to watch performances rather than celebrating the Sabbath, and Cyril stationed agents there to keep watch on them, which rankled the crowd. The Jews even accused Orestes of allowing Cyril's informers to spy on them and create problems.

In retaliation, the Jews began raiding Christian homes and launching secret attacks. On one evening the Jews even ran through the streets of the city shouting that the Church of St. Alexander was consumed in flames. When the Christians hurried to save their church, the Jews attacked and killed many of them.

Of course, this really inflamed Cyril, who ordered his army of supporters to the Jewish Quarter of the city, where they plundered the synagogues, set fire to Jewish homes and chased many of them completely out of Alexandria.

Orestes attempted to halt the marauding clergy, but was silenced when he passed through the streets with a small column of soldiers. He was easily dragged from his carriage by a band of 500 Nitrian monks, and even though he proclaimed his Christianity, was nevertheless stoned to unconsciousness on the street. Among those who stoned him was a fanatic monk named Ammonius, and a few brave citizens of Alexandria came to the prefect's rescue, in the process beating Ammonius to death.

Cyril commanded the body of Ammonius to be transported to the cathedral in a solemn procession, and had his name changed to Thaumasius (the Wonderful). His tomb was decorated with the trophies of martyrdom, and the troubles continued.

Next, he turned his attention to Hypatia, who he despised, and he passed on to his clergy these feelings. On a day during the holy season of Lent, Hypatia was pulled from her carriage, stripped naked, dragged to the cathedral and butchered by a young reader named Peter and a fanatical mob of Christian monks. Afterwards, they scraped the flesh from her bones with broken pieces of tile and threw her limbs to the flames.

Upon her death, the spirit of Greek intellectualism seems to have died in Alexandria, and with it, the famous Mouseion.

While we know much about the scholars and their work at the ancient university, much also remains unknown. We have little idea how the Library functioned, even whether the scholars taught or lectured there. The new discoveries in Alexandria currently raise more questions, if dated between the 5th and 7th centuries, than provide answers, but perhaps, just perhaps, such finds may eventually lead us to at least a few of the marvels of ancient Alexandria.

Today, a new Library of Alexandria has been raised from the dust of the old, with the high intentions of setting ablaze once more the beacon of intellectualism known from Alexandria's ancient past. Bibliotheca Alexandrina, which includes a museum, was dedicated with much pomp and ceremony, and with not a small amount of media attention, the new facility is already becoming a focus of our beloved and revived, Alexandria.
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http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mouseion.htm

[ 01-03-2006, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Artemis ]
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2008, 01:24:12 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-03-2006 02:05 AM                       
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Anyway, the point is, all three people had a hand in the destruction, but scholars still believe that the Christian attack in the fourth century was the most severe.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:08:46 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-03-2006 11:09 AM                       
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Thank you Faith and Artemis;

Here is some of my notepad scratches from your posts and the internet. I know it's messy, but I wanted the clues out there anyway. 


"From the time of its creation in the third century B.C. until its destruction seven centuries later, it was the brain and heart of the ancient world.

The Old Testament comes down to us mainly from the Greek translations made in the Alexandrian Library. The Ptolemys devoted much of their enormous wealth to the acquisition of every Greek book, as well as works from Africa, Persia, India, Israel and other parts of the world. Ptolemy III Euergetes wished to borrow from Athens the original manuscripts or official state copies of the great ancient tragedies of Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides.


But Ptolemy valued those scrolls more than gold or silver. He forfeited the deposit gladly and enshrined, as well he might, the originals in the Library. The outraged Athenians had to content themselves with the copies that Ptolemy, only a little shamefacedly, presented to them. Rarely has a state so avidly supported the pursuit of knowledge.

The Ptolemys did not merely collect established knowledge; they encouraged and financed scientific research and so generated new knowledge.

Alexandria was the greatest city the Western world had ever seen. People of all nations came there to live, to trade, to learn. On any given day, its harbors were thronged with merchants, scholars and tourists. This was a city where Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Syrians, Hebrews, Persians, Nubians, Phoenicians, Italians, Gauls and Iberians exchanged merchandise and ideas. It is probably here that the word cosmopolitan realized its true meaning -- citizen, not just of a nation, but of the Cosmos. To be a citizen of the Cosmos...

Here clearly were the seeds of the modern world. What prevented them from taking root and flourishing? Why instead did the West slumber through a thousand years of darkness until Columbus and Copernicus and their contemporaries rediscovered the work done in Alexandria? I cannot give you a simple answer. But I do know this: there is no record, in the entire history of the Library, that any of its illustrious scientists and scholars ever seriously challenged the political, economic and religious assumptions of their society.

The last scientist who worked in the Library was a mathematician, astronomer, physicist and the head of the Neoplatonic school of philosophy -- an extraordinary range of accomplishments for any individual in any age. Her name was Hypatia. She was born in Alexandria in 370. At a time when women had few options and were treated as property, Hypatia moved freely and unselfconsciously through traditional male domains. By all accounts she was a great beauty. She had many suitors but rejected all offers of marriage. The Alexandria of Hypatia's time -- by then long under Roman rule -- was a city under grave strain. Slavery had sapped classical civilization of its vitality. The growing Christian Church was consolidating its power and attempting to eradicate pagan influence and culture. Hypatia stood at the epicenter of these mighty social forces. Cyril, the Archbishop of Alexandria, despised her because of her close friendship with the Roman governor, and because she was a symbol of learning and science, which were largely identified by the early Church with paganism In great personal danger, she continued to teach and publish, until, in the year 415, on her way to work she was set upon by a fanatical mob of Cyril's parishioners. They dragged her from her chariot, tore off her clothes, and armed with abalone shells, flayed her flesh from her bones. Her remains were burned, her works obliterated, her name forgotten. Cyril was made a saint.

(415aD)-Its last remnants were destroyed soon after Hypatia's death." - Carl Sagan.

Aristotle's books were the only ones spared. (hmmmm, and Aristotle opposed (envious of) Plato... and taught Alexander)-Riven.

"Alexandria was founded in Egypt by Alexandria the Great. His successor as Pharaoh, Ptolomy II Soter, founded the Museum or Royal Library of Alexandria in 283 BC. The Museum was a shrine of the Muses modeled after the Lyceum of Aristotle in Athens." -Preston Chesser.

Julius Caesar 48 BC

pursuing Pompey into Egypt when he was suddenly cut off by an Egyptian fleet at Alexandria. Greatly outnumbered and in enemy territory, Caesar ordered the ships in the harbor to be set on fire. The fire spread and destroyed the Egyptian fleet. Unfortunately, it also burned down part of the city - the area where the great Library stood. Caesar wrote of starting the fire in the harbor but neglected to mention the burning of the Library.

Theophilus was Patriarch of Alexandria from 385 to 412 AD. During his reign the Temple of Serapis was converted into a Christian Church (probably around 391 AD) and it is likely that many documents were destroyed then. The Temple of Serapis was estimated to hold about ten percent of the overall Library of Alexandria's holdings. After his death, his nephew Cyril became Patriarch. Shortly after that, riots broke out when Hierax, a Christian monk, was publicly killed by order of Orestes the city Prefect. Orestes was said to be under the influence of Hypatia, a female philosopher and daughter of the "last member of the Library of Alexandria".

Immediately after the death of Hierax a group of Jews who had helped instigate his killing lured more Christians into the street at night by proclaiming that the Church was on fire. When the Christians rushed out the largely Jewish mob slew many of them. After this there was mass havoc as Christians retaliated against both the Jews and the Pagans - one of which was Hypatia. The story varies slightly depending upon who tells it but she was taken by the Christians, dragged through the streets and murdered.

Some regard the death of Hypatia as the final destruction of the Library. Others blame Theophilus for destroying the last of the scrolls when he razed the Temple of Serapis prior to making it a Christian church. Still others have confused both incidents and blamed Theophilus for simultaneously murdering Hypatia and destroying the Library though it is obvious Theophilus died sometime prior to Hypatia.

the Moslem Caliph Omar. In 640 AD the Moslems took the city of Alexandria. Upon learning of "a great library containing all the knowledge of the world" the conquering general supposedly asked Caliph Omar for instructions. The Caliph has been quoted as saying of the Library's holdings, "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." So, allegedly, all the texts were destroyed by using them as tinder for the bathhouses of the city. Even then it was said to have taken six months to burn all the documents. But these details, from the Caliph's quote to the incredulous six months it supposedly took to burn all the books, weren't written down until 300 years after the fact. These facts condemning Omar were written by Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus, a Christian who spent a great deal of time writing about Moslem atrocities without much historical documentation.

So who did burn the Library of Alexandria?

Unfortunately most of the writers from Plutarch (who apparently blamed Caesar) to Edward Gibbons (a staunch atheist or deist who liked very much to blame Christians and blamed Theophilus) to Bishop Gregory (who was particularly anti-Moslem, blamed Omar) all had an axe to grind and consequently must be seen as biased. Probably everyone mentioned above had some hand in destroying some part of the Library's holdings. The collection may have ebbed and flowed as some documents were destroyed and others were added. For instance, Mark Antony was supposed to have given Cleopatra over 200,000 scrolls for the Library long after Julius Caesar is accused of burning it.

the outlying "daughter" library at the Temple of Serapis continued on...

Demetrius of Phaleron was the 1st recorded librarian at Alexandria between 290 - 282 BCE. Demetrius began
the translation of many works into Greek, his first job was the translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew
into Greek for which the Library hired 72 rabbis.

Kallimachos of Kyrene was the most famous librarian

A covered marble colonnade connected the Museum with an adjacent stately building

Here in ten great Halls,
separate rooms for individuals or groups engaged in special studies

In 2004 a Polish-Egyptian team claimed to have discovered part of the library while excavating in the Bruchion region

Bibliotheca Alexandrina http://www.bibalex.gov.eg

A final summary is interesting: of the 16 writers, 10, Caesar himself, the author of the Alexandrian War, Cicero, Strabo, Livy (as far as we know), Lucan, Florus, Suetonius, Appian, and even Athenaeus apparently knew nothing of the burning of the Museum,

1. Seneca (AD 49), the first writer to mention it (and that nearly 100 years after the alleged event), definitely says that 40,000 books were burned.


2. Plutarch (c. 117) says that the fire destroyed the great Library.


3. Aulus Gellius (123 - 169) says that during the "sack" of Alexandria 700,000 volumes were all burned.


4. Dio Cassius (155 - 235) says that storehouses containing grain and books were burned, and that these books were of great number and excellence.


5. Ammianus Marcellinus (390) says that in the "sack" of the city 70,000 volumes were burned.


6. Orosius (c. 415), the last writer, singularly confirms Seneca as to number and the thing destroyed: 40,000 books.

Of all the sources, Plutarch is the only one to refer explicitly to the destruction of the Library. Plutarch was also the first writer to refer to Caesar by name.

Furthermore, the Library was a very large stone building and the scrolls were stored away in armaria (and some of them put in capsules), so it is hard to see how a fire in the harbor could have affected a significant part of its contents.

generally accepted that the Museum of Alexandria existed until ca. 400 aD.

The auditoriums were found near the portico of the Roman Theater in the eastern part of the ancient city.
"This is the oldest university ever found in the world," Grzegory Majderek, head of the Polish mission, told The Associated Press.

Urantia from Absonite;

By the fourth hour after landing they were settled near the eastern end of the long and broad avenue, one hundred feet wide and five miles long, which stretched on out to the western limits of this city of one million people. After the first survey of the city's chief attractionsÖuniversity (museum), library, the royal mausoleum of Alexander, the palace, temple of Neptune, theater, and gymnasiumÖGonod addressed himself to business while Jesus and Ganid went to the library, the greatest in the world.

"But Yahweh is the God developed from the revelations of Melchizedek and the covenant of Abraham. The Jews were the offspring of Abraham and subsequently occupied the very land wherein (Machiventa) Melchizedek had lived and taught, and from which he sent teachers to all the world; and their religion eventually portrayed a clearer recognition of the Lord God of Israel as the Universal Father in heaven than any other world religion."

Although these translations were made at Alexandria, Ganid did not finally arrange these selections and add his own personal conclusions until near the end of their sojourn in Rome. He was much surprised to discover that the best of the authors of the world's sacred literature all more or less clearly recognized the existence of an eternal God and were much in agreement with regard to his character and his relationship with mortal man.

"Teacher , you know more than these professors; you should stand up and tell them the great things you have told me; they are befogged by much thinking. I shall speak to my father and have him arrange it." Jesus smiled, saying: "You are an admiring pupil, but these teachers are not minded that you and I should instruct them. The pride of unspiritualized learning is a treacherous thing in human experience. The true teacher maintains his intellectual integrity by ever remaining a learner."

Here was located the largest Jewish synagogue in the world, the seat of government of the Alexandria Sanhedrin, the seventy ruling elders.

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Among the many men with whom Gonod transacted business was a certain Jewish banker, Alexander, whose brother, Philo, was a famous religious philosopher of that time. Philo was engaged in the laudable but exceedingly difficult task of harmonizing Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology. Ganid and Jesus talked much about Philo's teachings and expected to attend some of his lectures, but throughout their stay at Alexandria this famous Hellenistic Jew lay sick abed.

A one-eyed person can never hope to visualize depth of perspective. Neither can single-eyed material scientists nor single-eyed spiritual mystics and allegorists correctly visualize and adequately comprehend the true depths of universe reality. All true values of creature experience are concealed in depth of recognition.


Theon of Alexandria was the last person definitely known to have been associated with the Museum, because he recorded two eclipses (solar/Lunar) he was credited during the reign of Theodosius I to a height of his writings at 360-370aD.

His daughter, Hypatia, was associated with the Neo-Platonic School, a different institution.

Around 400.aD, Alexandria was a turbulent mix of Cultures.

The Roman Empire, of which Alexandria was a part, was under external pressure from the Huns and Visigoths. It split in 395.aD into the Western Empire (ruled from Rome) and the Eastern Empire (ruled from Constantinople).

The official religion was Christianity, reformed under Constantinople.

Julian the Apostate had reigned over the combined empire from 361-363.aD.

At the time of Hypatia's death, the local governor was Orestes, a Christian unsympathetic to other views, but whos authority was under challenge from that of the less tolerant Cyril of Alexandria (St.Cyril), who acceded to the bishopric in 412.aD. The divisions that beset the city were prone to erupt into sectarian violence; the great libraries associated with the Museum were one by one destroyed, the last going up in smoke in 392 when the temple of Serapis was put to the torch during a riot.

Shortly after Hypatia was murdered, which following and possibly because of this, the thrust of Neoplatonist thought and education moved from Alexandria to Athens..

Three names require mention, Proclus (410-485.aD) was the last of the great mathematicians of Greek antiquity, who frequented the neoplatonic school in Athens, and is best remembered for a commentary on Book I of Euclid's "Elements".
After Proclus came Isisdorus and his pupil Damascius.

In 529 the Emperor Justinian, enforcing Christianity as the state religion, closed the Neoplatonic School and Damascius went into exile in Persia.

The oldest accounts of Hypatia come to us from either the "Suda (Suidae) Lexicon or from the writings of the early Christian Church, other sources known as the "Patrologiae Graecae", gives earlier accounts of her death, than the Suda and also preserves letters to her and about her from the hands of one of her pupils. Synesisu of Cyrene.

Peter the Reader was blamed for her death ca 415.aD.

*Adobe Acrobat PDF File;
http://www.maa.org/pubs/Calc_articles/ma055.pdf

Hypatia wrote a commentary on Diophantus, the astronomical Canon, and on Apollonius's "Conics".

Most of these come to us from Arabic commentators (editors,translators).

Theon, Hypatia's Father, was a prolific author of Commentaries such as the Elements, and Euclid's Data and Optics, and Ptolemy's, Almagest and Handy Tables.

One of Hypatia's works, Seriatum, reflects the wisdom of her Father Theon.

Theon is more visualized as an editor, teacher and textbook writer, rather than a research mathematician.

Recent work by Roshdi Rashed, Sesiano and others has suggested that some of the lost books of Diophantus in fact survive in Arabic translations.

Michael A.B. Deakin
Dept. of Mathematics
Monash University
Clayton, Vic. 3168
Australia.

Printed in;

The American Mathematical Monthly, March 1994, Volume 101, Number 3, pp. 234-243.


The Alexandrian Wars
By Julius Caesar
http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/alexandrian.html


What can I say Faith?

It's abhorrent and very much a Genocide from Phoenicians.

Twas the Temple Host where darkness fell,
One Hundred fifty years of Hell.
For the Good Shepherd Philitis knew,
the chosen few, and soon to be born,
a "Prodigal Child" to adorn,
not of the Blood of Brine,
but third Son to fall out of line.
so the struggle goes,4500 years to and fro
no relenquish for the treasure of mind.-Riven.


You see Faith, the miracle of all this for me is that which knowledge I uncovered here in my last 2 years of this hidden "Evil".

The Irony is, that this was already foretold to me about 28 years ago from one of my visions.

[ 01-03-2006, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:09:07 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-03-2006 02:13 PM                       
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Speaking of straight from the Horses Mouth;


quote:
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"Not suggesting that.

But I am suggesting that these Renaissance Cartographers knew more than they are given credit for. I am suggesting that the Renaissance Cartographers, especially Muslims ones, found some unknown source. I am suggesting that this source was a body of knowledge recovered. Incidentally, the period of strange mapping starts with the discovery of the Hermetica... which makes one think, was there a Fatima-type cover-up underway with the Hermetica? Do we really believe that if Cosimo de Medici found something important he would share it?
_________________
Cower in Holy Fear, Infidel. Cheers, and Good Mental Health, Herr Saltzman"
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:09:31 pm
+Faith+

Member
Member # 2886

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   posted 01-03-2006 10:59 PM                       
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Great job getting all the research in order, Riven, I wish that I could get it all straight like that. It is indeed a pity about Hypatia, hers is one of the most tragic stories in history, wrought by ignorant people towards one of history's most enlightened people.

Your notes seem to place most of the blame for the Library's destruction on the Romans. That would make the age when the library was at it's peak even briefer than what people have already imagined. Then, the Colossus of Rhodes only stood for something like fifty years, the rest of it's nine hundred some years, it lay on the ground - before the Muslims carted it off with their camels.

I can't help but to get the feeling that a lot of what we are hearng about from the assumed Christian role in the destruction is being overplayed by people who don't like Christians and do what they will to slander us. The Muslims did either destroy or convert over 3200 churches into mosques during the first century of Islamic Jihad alone, and did massacre Christians.

In North Africa, when Tripoli was captured in AD 643, all the Jews and Christians were forced to hand their women and children over as slaves. When Carthage was captured, it was burned to the ground and most of its inhabitants slaughtered. Their invasion of Alexandria was only about five years before that. All the evidence taken together, they would still seem to have the biggest role, to my thinking, at least.

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:10:16 pm
+Faith+

Member
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   posted 01-03-2006 11:42 PM                       
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Riven, why are you deleting your posts?
Whatever is bothering you, I bid you do not despair.
Don't let anyone, or anything tear you down.

God Bless

+Faith+

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:10:44 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-04-2006 01:30 AM                       
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Faith,

They are not worthy of the ink upon the pages.

I do know who are.

No, not the Romans Faith, I defend you, not reprimand you.

But rather the poison of Socrates.

The Murderers of Plato.

The Evil which AROSE OUT of Egypt and UNTO Phoenicia....

...see it is written where Cain trodded to Cannan, with the BLOOD OF BRINE in him.

No, tis naught the name of a people, but rather what POISONS them.....Cain.

The same that poisoned Europe,Africa,Asia, America and S.America.

The same that poisoned Christian Neo-Platonism.

The allayahs, Cyril.

along those lines, see, for it is not me, but the friends we keep....said the West to the East...

this eastern poison from Serpents of Phoenicia where Able was murdered.

Tho they much enjoyed the Bactrian Orgies of Black Bishops.........see.

The Doctrine.

Fear not, my steps are with you...


these people know not the seriousness.


The Romans, including Caesar, only maintained what was conquered by Alexander..... and who poisoned Alexander?

Aristotle.

No, twas not Caesar......


I will go now........for I gave back to the people Atlantis I and II, their God JA, their Ships, their Secrets of Egypt and the LIES OF THE EAST,....

now I have a Library to Build far greater than Aristotle for you Faith and Chronos.

1 of many.

[ 01-04-2006, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:11:14 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

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   posted 01-04-2006 12:31 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Riven:
Sometimes I wonder Chronos,
using GOOGLE EARTH,
and looking WEST of the Great Pyramid
to the Roash hills of birth,
appear a magnificient labyrinth of lines.

Further left, you'll see
large Circular lines so divine,
arranged as such, a library would
to preserve the age of time. 

Tis tru to know the Rose line
to the sun of shadow and light
can a man walk upon the labyrinth
with a book held tight in his might.

and he shall call his book,The Book of Thoth-Riv.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Roash%20Labyrinth_Thoth%20Roseline_Riven05.jpg
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Well, of course I agree. The Atlanteans could well have built a mirror of their ancient homeland in the new colony of Egypt.

I also agree that the Library of Alexandria certainly held documents related to the truth of Atlantis that (after a minimum three destructions), are now perhaps irrevocablty lost to us. Modern archaeology has so shortened the timeline of human history because it doesn't have them. We have, in turn, Manetho's king's list, which hints at the older world, and yet is ignored by mainstream Egyptologists because, at first glance, it seems to be incovenient.

But you know what? We really don't need those older records. Those of us who are gifted with the ability to put logic and insight together can already see many of the pieces come together.

Riven, I certainly hope your last message is not meant to be taken as a goodbye. You are like a brother to me and we have much more work to be done here.

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:11:52 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 01-04-2006 01:00 PM                       
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Europa,

Happy New Year to you too! I've been out of town.
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Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:12:15 pm
Chronos

Member
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   posted 01-04-2006 02:01 PM                       
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I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year, too, and would especially like to thank Faith, Riven, Europa, Artemis, George, and all the others for the additions they have made to this over the holiday. I haven't had the chance to read them all, but it's nice to know that the topic has sparked so much interest.

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:13:01 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-04-2006 02:16 PM                       
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No Chronos it is not a Goodbye, as I said, I know who are worthy, and to those I will reply.

Faith is quite right in the reasons for the destruction of the Great Library, the other reason was Aristotle, the bridge to the poison.

It is easier to understand Aristotles role when we understand the role of certain "Priests" who were responsible for the rulership of countries, such as Egypt.

He played young Alexander quite well, then when he was done, the poison went to work and he returned to his Black Robe.

The other doctrine that was responsible not only for the ruin of Alexandria, but also for the innocent lives of many was simply this......


..."They Shall be put to Death".....

this simple clause, in the Koran,Islam and amongst the muslims was that poison that those people believed in, a Religion of the Blood of Brine from Phoenicia.

Well then, if you don't watch the Olympics, you shall be put to death, if you don't watch Family Guy, you shall be put to death, if you don't drink Coca Cola, you shall be put to death, if you don't brush your teeth, you shall be put to death....


It is a sick and demented philosophy that we as a Unified World need to dissolve.

You have your country, keep it amongst yourselves, if you wish to bleed brine.

Across your border lies people who merit their lands from their hard work and endeavors to survive............

They know not the real God, and commit much falsity amongst themselves and humans with doctrines of brine.

It is only a matter of time when their own will come to realize the great atrocities commited by their Black Priests of Brine.....

For the oldest God to All of us in Antiquity is..


JA, from him came the others.


To this you hear from a real Prophet.

A White Prophet.

For if people do not abide by your laws or religion, the answer is exhilement, not DEATH.

Nor shall those across your borders be put to Death, lest it is the eyes of your children and loved ones that you see turn to BLACK.


The Heart is Sacred, The Mind is not.


The Mystery of Alexandria's disappearance is not so much a mystery, anymore.


What we need to put together for Alexandria, is a list of all the authors whose books would be in there.

What we need to put together for the World....


is pure knowledge and love to preserve and prosper so you may see your children laugh. 

Riven-The Seer and RoyalBloodline to Atlantis.

Son of JA.

Revealer of Mysteries. 


Spread The Light for here we return to....


[ 01-04-2006, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:13:28 pm
Chronos

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   posted 01-04-2006 03:46 PM                       
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Riven,

It may well be that we have an incomplete picture of Aristotle's role in the Atlantis story. While he is given credit for the famous quote disputing the idea of Atlantis, and was probably instumental in Atlantis not being a topic for study at the Academy, he is given credit for another quote concerning Atlantis in something called the "Constituion of the Taegians." The exact wording escapes me, but I believe it was from one of Europa's posts under the "Atlantis References" thread.

Other works that might have been at the Library?

How about a "Rosetta Stone" of sorts for both Linear A & B, along with a complete Minoan history?

Socrates' written works (if he had any).

Solon's original account of Atlantis (it might well have been there and destroyed, too).

The original Egyptian story in hierolgylphs of Atlantis.

The writings of Archimedes & Pythagoras.

Basque, Berber, perhaps even Guanche records of the great civilization that spawed them.

Hellanicus' compete account of "Atlantis" which may well have verified Plato's details, after a fashion.

More complete historical accounts of the life of Jesus Christ.

The Emerald Tablets of Thoth.

Egyptian pre-history before the age of the Pharoahs.

The historical records of a thousand other civilizations that may well have existed, yet were destroyed in the flood(s).

I agree with Faith that the Muslims were ultimately responsible for the Library's destruction and that there has been a great deal of anti-Christian propaganda. We all know that history, such as it is, tends to be written by those who are the latest in control of a piece of land.

Glad you're okay, by the way. I would also certainly agree with Faith in that you shouldn't let the opinions of others tear you down, let alone effect your work in anyway. If they can't understand it, it happens to be their loss, not yours.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:13:48 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-04-2006 08:05 PM                       
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Atlanteans will never perish......

nor ever be defeated, but the purpose is greater..

than simple minds.....


see.....Chronos?

The Evil is amongst us, and I have taken a piece of their mind.........


when our shelves are complete....


There........Thoth's Book you will find.


I already know where it is....


and JA. 


Thank You.
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:14:06 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 01-04-2006 08:37 PM                   
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Are you writing a book, Riven?

--------------------
Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001530;p=10

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:14:32 pm
Apollo

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   posted 01-04-2006 10:07 PM                   
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I'm the one writing the book, Saltzman.
It's about how to destroy someone through inciting paranoia and fear. You are to be my next subject. :)

--------------------
"Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:14:52 pm
Apollo

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   posted 01-04-2006 10:41 PM                   
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Some more books that should have been read at the library:

http://www.pastorigins.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=59
http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t4217.html
http://www.ancientworlds.net/member/Pompilius/Herr%20Saltzman

--------------------
"Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:15:12 pm
+Faith+

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I'm glad that you seem to be doing better, Riven, you were in my prayers last night.

This forum seems to thrive in people who only seem contented if they are making others unhappy. So don't let them. We are, each of us, who we are, for a purpose. I personally believe our lives are worth a hundredfold more if we have a positive effect on people as opposed to a negative one. It's also harder for negative people to remain negative if you don't return their feelings in kind. That's what being a Christian is all about.

Remember, whatever you do, you'll always have friends.

God Bless

+Faith+

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:15:54 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-05-2006 02:09 AM                       
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Let not Aristotle teach the youth,
for his Black King is now fallen,
taken upon the witching hour....
praised from another
whose poison you devour,
twas not so kind...
to explode his mind
but clear the path
of the blood of brine.
Yet kin to him,
shall never to reign,
but eat the dust
upon the plain of Cain...

for the Katydids chirp no more,
when Satiman opens the door...
not once, but twice more...


--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:16:14 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 01-05-2006 08:13 AM                       
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This forum seems to thrive in people who only seem contented if they are making others unhappy.

You noticed?

I wish someone would take charge of the personal attacks,we can debate without personal attacks,or this forum is doomed, and soon.

[ 01-05-2006, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

--------------------
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And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:16:34 pm
 
Chronos

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   posted 01-05-2006 12:11 PM                       
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Best thing to do is simply to ignore the person making the personal attack, Ishtar. Eventually, they get bored because no one is paying attention to them and drift away.

The forum should be about research, not about who can come up with the best insults towards each other.

Speaking of animosity, I thought it might be interesting if we explored the relationship between Aristotle and Plato.

"He who created it, destroyed it," is the famous quote of Aristotle towards Atlantis. The comment not only speaks volumes of Aristotle's lack of belief towards Atlantis, but something of his contempt for Plato, too, I have always felt. But are there any other writings that go into anymore detail about their relationship?

Plato clearly felt great admiration for Socrates, the figure that dominates much of his early work. How odd that he should have wound up with Aristotle, a figure who, by all appearances anyway, lacked a similar respect for him.

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:16:55 pm
Chronos

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From the age of 18 to 37 Aristotle remained in Athens as a pupil of Plato and distinguished himself at the Academy. The relations between Plato and Aristotle have formed the subject of various legends, many of which depict Aristotle unfavourably. No doubt there were divergences of opinion between Plato, who took his stand on sublime, idealistic principles, and Aristotle, who even at that time showed a preference for the investigation of the facts and laws of the physical world. It is also probable that Plato suggested that Aristotle needed restraining rather than encouragement, but not that there was an open breach of friendship. In fact, Aristotle's conduct after the death of Plato, his continued association with Xenocrates and other Platonists, and his allusions in his writings to Plato's doctrines prove that while there were conflicts of opinion between Plato and Aristotle, there was no lack of cordial appreciation or mutual forbearance. Besides this, the legends that reflect Aristotle unfavourably are traceable to the Epicureans, who were known as slanderers. If such legends were circulated widely by patristic writers such as Justin Martyr and Gregory Nazianzen, the reason lies in the exaggerated esteem Aristotle was held in by the early Christian heretics, not in any well-grounded historical tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:17:31 pm
Chronos

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   posted 01-05-2006 12:21 PM                       
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Aristotle as philosopher and tutor

After the death of Plato (347 BC), Aristotle was considered as the next head of the Academy, a post that was eventually awarded to Plato's nephew. Aristotle then went with Xenocrates to the court of Hermias, ruler of Atarneus in Asia Minor, and married his niece and adopted daughter, Pythia. In 344 BC, Hermias was murdered in a rebellion, and Aristotle went with his family to Mytilene. It is also reported that he stopped on Lesbos and briefly conducted biological research. Then, one or two years later, he was summoned to Pella, the Macedonian capital, by King Philip II of Macedon to become the tutor of Alexander the Great, who was then 13.

It is possible that Aristotle also participated in the education of Alexander's boyhood friends, which may have included for example Hephaestion and Harpalus. Aristotle maintained a long correspondence with Hephaestion, eventually collected into a book, unfortunately now lost.

Very little is known about Aristotle's personal appearance except from hostile sources. The statues and busts of Aristotle, possibly from the first years of the Peripatetic School, represent him as sharp and keen of countenance, and somewhat below the average height. His character—as revealed by his writings, his will (which is undoubtedly genuine), fragments of his letters and the allusions of his unprejudiced contemporaries—was that of a high-minded, kind-hearted man, devoted to his family and his friends, kind to his slaves, fair to his enemies and rivals, grateful towards his benefactors. When Platonism ceased to dominate the world of Christian speculation, and the works of Aristotle began to be studied without fear and prejudice, the personality of Aristotle appeared to the Christian writers of the 13th century, as it had to the unprejudiced pagan writers of his own day, as calm, majestic, untroubled by passion, and undimmed by any great moral defects, "the master of those who know".

Aristotle's legacy also had a profound influence on Islamic thought and philosophy during the middle ages. The likes of Avicenna, Farabi, and Yaqub ibn Ishaq al-Kindi1 were a few of the major proponents of the Aristotelian school of thought during the Golden Age of Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:17:54 pm
Chronos

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Aristotle has been criticised on several grounds.

His analysis of procreation is frequently criticised on the grounds that it presupposes an active, ensouling masculine element bringing life to an inert, passive, lumpen female element; it is on these grounds that some feminist critics refer to Aristotle as a misogynist.
At times, the objections that Aristotle raises against the arguments of his own teacher, Plato, appear to rely on faulty interpretations of those arguments.
Although Aristotle advised, against Plato, that knowledge of the world could only be obtained through experience, he frequently failed to take his own advice. Aristotle conducted projects of careful empirical investigation, but often drifted into abstract logical reasoning, with the result that his work was littered with conclusions that were not supported by empirical evidence: for example, his assertion that objects of different mass fall at different speeds under gravity, which was later refuted by John Philoponus. Credit is often given to Galileo, even though Philopinus lived centuries before him.

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:18:25 pm
Chronos

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   posted 01-05-2006 12:30 PM                       
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A very nice but lengthy analysis of the decline of the ancient library:

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/alex.htm

--------------------
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:18:48 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 01-05-2006 05:34 PM                   
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Riven,

Does your disappearance coincide with the End Times?

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Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001530;p=10

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:19:06 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-05-2006 06:36 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronos;

What more can YOU say about Aristotle?



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After the death of Plato (347 BC), Aristotle was considered as the next head of the Academy, a post that was eventually awarded to Plato's nephew. Aristotle then went with Xenocrates to the court of Hermias, ruler of Atarneus in Asia Minor, and married his niece and adopted daughter, Pythia. In 344 BC, Hermias was murdered in a rebellion, and Aristotle went with his family to Mytilene. It is also reported that he stopped on Lesbos and briefly conducted biological research. Then, one or two years later, he was summoned to Pella, the Macedonian capital, by King Philip II of Macedon to become the tutor of Alexander the Great, who was then 13.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems you've said quite enough for the jurors...Chronos. 


but alas, continue, so the longer path is trodden....

[ 01-05-2006, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:19:23 pm
 
Brooke

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   posted 01-05-2006 11:55 PM                       
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Alright, you can probably see why Aristotle may have had some ill will towards Plato. Anyone care to guess why Plato passed Aristotle over for the post of head of the Academy?

What didn't he see in his philosophy, or was it all just personal?

--------------------
"The most incomprehensible thing about our universe is that it can be comprehended." - Albert Einstein

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:19:49 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-06-2006 06:37 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brooke, it's the same reason for this character...


posted 01-06-2006 07:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actualy, Brig and Smiley, it's quite amusing
how the blood of brine
sit in their corners watching
driven by madness for the little "beep"
that goes off inside their head
when their monitors wake them from sleep....

RIVEN'S ONLINE!.........

then the grand charade
of the tools of thier trade
ping like japanese pongs...

Firewalls are a beautiful way of tracking
the bloods of brine....

from 4-9, becomes 20 to life, the easy way...

You know, "loopers are quite full of bloopers"..

tis clever they to bridge the alarm....


Now go back into your closets with your pee wee herman magazine........

how grand, how deuce, was the scheme....

hmmmmm, I wonder how many milliseconds I could ping the FBI....

oh, it's simply delicious.....said Stewie....

aah yes...The Wixard of Ox....


The Great Mendacium Lepers of the Ring.

--------------------
[R]..Riven-The Seer and Royal-Bloodline to Atlantis..[R]


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reply from 205.200.78.71

32 bytes 36ms TTL = 59.


hmmm, 36 ms to ping the FBI eh.....


I think the Judge would agree with 36 years....


for a certain someone over at SBC.Global..

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:20:08 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 01-06-2006 04:37 PM                   
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Riven,

Aristotle was a great man, more intelligent than Plato.

Now, why do Japanese pongs have anything to do with the Library of Alexandria?

Are you all right, Riven?

--------------------
Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001530;p=10

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:20:37 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-07-2006 02:36 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Faith and Chronos, and Sarah;

The Tales from the Westcar Papyrus

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/westcar_papyrus.htm


Djedi the magician


(his years are a hundred and ten: the ideal life span)

Djedi the magician

King Khufu said: "And who is he, my son?"

"His name is Dedi," answered Prince Hordadef. "He is a very old man, for his years are a hundred and ten. Each day he eats a joint of beef and five hundred loaves of bread, and drinks a hundred jugs of beer. He can smite off the head of a living creature and restore it again; he can make a lion follow him; and he knows the secrets of the habitation of the god Thoth, which Your Majesty has desired to know so that you may design the chambers of your pyramid."

King Khufu said: "Go now and find this man for me, Hordadef."

The prince went down to the Nile, boarded a boat, and sailed southward until he reached the town called Dedsnefru, where Dedi had his dwelling. He went ashore, and was carried in his chair of state towards the magician, who was found lying at his door. When Dedi was awakened, the king's son saluted him and bade him not to rise up because of his years. The prince said: "My royal father desires to honour you, and will provide for you a tomb among your people."

Dedi blessed the prince and the king with thankfulness, and he said to Hordadef: "Greatness be thine; may your Ka have victory over the powers of evil, and may your Khu follow the path which leads to Paradise."
Hordadef assisted Dedi to rise up, and took his arm to help him towards the ship. He sailed away with the prince, and in another ship were his assistants and his magic books.

"Health and strength and plenty be thine," said Hordadef, when he again stood before his royal father King Khufu. "I have come down stream with Dedi, the great magician."

His Majesty was well pleased, and said: "Let the man be brought into my presence."

Dedi came and saluted the king, who said: "Why have I not seen you before?"

"He that is called cometh," answered the old man; "you have sent for me and I am here."

"It is told," King Khufu said, "that you can restore the head that is taken from a live creature."

"I can indeed, Your Majesty," answered Dedi.

The king said: "Then let a prisoner be brought forth and decapitated."

"I would rather it were not a man," said Dedi; "I do not deal even with cattle in such a manner."

A duck was brought forth and its head was cut off, and the head was thrown to the right and the body to the left. Dedi spoke magic words. Then the head and the body came together, and the duck rose up and quacked loudly. The same was done with a goose.

King Khufu then caused a cow to be brought in, and its head was cut off. Dedi restored the animal to life again, and caused it to follow him.

His Majesty then spoke to the magician and said: "It is told that you possess the secrets of the dwelling of the god Thoth."

Dedi answered: "I do not possess them, but I know where they are concealed, and that is within a temple chamber at Heliopolis. There the plans are kept in a box, but it is no insignificant person who shall bring them to Your Majesty."

"I would fain know who will deliver them unto me," King Khufu said.

Dedi prophesied that three sons would be born to Rud-dedit, wife of the chief priest of Ra. The eldest would become chief priest at Heliopolis and would possess the plans. He and his brothers would one day sit upon the throne and rule over all the land.

King Khufu's heart was filled with gloom and alarm when he heard the prophetic words of the great magician.

Dedi then said: "What are your thoughts, O King? Behold your son will reign after you, and then his son. But next, one of these children will follow." (not of Khufu's blood-Riven)

King Khufu was silent. Then he spoke and asked: "When shall these children be born?"

Dedi informed His Majesty, who said: "I will visit the temple of Ra at that time."

Dedi was honoured by His Majesty, and thereafterwards dwelt in the house of the Prince Hordadef. He was given daily for his portion an ox, a thousand loaves of bread, a hundred jugs of beer, and a hundred bunches of onions.

The day came when the sons of the woman Rud-dedit were to be born. Then the high priest of Ra, her husband,prayed unto the goddess Isis and her sister Nepthys; to Meskhent, goddess of birth; and to the frog goddess Hekt; and to the creator god Khnumu, who gives the breath of life. These he entreated to have care of the three babes who were to become three kings of Egypt, one after the other.

The deities heard him. Then came the goddesses as dancing girls, who went about the land, and the god Khnumu followed them as their burden bearer. When they reached the door of the high priest's dwelling they danced before him. He entreated them to enter, and they did according to his desire, and shut themselves in the room with the woman Rud-dedit.

Isis called the first child who was born Userkaf, and said: "Let no evil be done by him". The goddess Meskhent prophesied that he would become King of Egypt. Khnumu, the creator god, gave the child strength.

The second babe was named Sahura by the goddess Isis. Meskhent prophesied that he also would become a king. Khnumu gave him his strength.

The third was called Kaka. Meskhent said: "He shall also be a king", and Khnumu gave him strength.

Ere the dancing girls took their departure the high priest gave a measure of barley to their burden bearer, and Khnumu carried it away upon his shoulders. They all went upon their way, and Isis said: "Now let us work a wonder on behalf of these children, so that their father may know who hath sent us unto his house.

Royal crowns were fashioned and concealed in the measure of barley which had been given them. Then the deities caused a great storm to arise, and in the midst of it they returned to the dwelling of the high priest, and they put the barley in a cellar, and sealed it, saying they would return again and take it away.

It came to pass that after fourteen days Rud-dedit bade her servant to bring barley from the cellar so that beer might be made. The girl said: "There is none left save the measure which was given unto the dancing girls."

"Bring that then," said Rud-dedit, "and when the dancing girls return I will give them its value."

When the servant entered the cellar she heard the low sounds of sweet music and dancing and song. She went and told her mistress of this wonder, and Rud-dedit entered the cellar, and at first could not discover whence the mysterious sounds issued forth. At length she placed her ear against the sack which contained the barley given to the dancing girls, and found that the music was within it. She at once placed the sack in a chest and locked it, and then told her husband, and they rejoiced together.

Now it happened that one day Rud-dedit was angry with her servant, and smote her heavily. The girl vowed that she would be avenged and said:

"Her three children will become kings. I will inform King Khufu of this matter."

So the servant went away and visited her uncle, who was her mother's eldest brother. Unto him she told all that had happened and all she knew regarding the children of her mistress.

He was angry with her and spoke, saying: "Why come to me with this secret? I cannot consent to make it known as you desire."

Then he struck the girl, who went afterwards to draw water from the Nile. On the bank a crocodile seized her, and she was devoured. (she was most likely murdered-Riven)

The man then went towards the dwelling of Rud-dedit and he found her mourning with her head upon her knees. He spoke, saying: "Why is your heart full of gloom?"

Rud-dedit answered him: "Because my servant girl went away to reveal my secret."

The man bowed and said: "Behold! she came unto me and told me all things. But I struck her, and she went towards the river and was seized by a crocodile."

So was the danger averted. Nor did King Khufu ever discover the babes regarding whom Dedi had prophesied. In time they sat upon the throne of Egypt.



Source: Donald Mackenzie, Egyptian Myth and Legend 1907


Ra: The Re worship became increasingly important during the 4th and 5th dynasties. Since Djedefre (c. 2413-2381) the pharaohs bore the title of Son of Re.

The first three pharaohs of the 5th dynasty were
Userkaf c. 2494-2487
Sahure c. 2487-2475
Neferirkare c. 2475-2455

This story may have been conceived as a justification for the accession of the 5th dynasty kings. But it is likely that these pharaohs belonged to the same group of noble families as - and possibly even descended from - the 4th dynasty.


Nepthys: sister of Isis
Meskhent: Personification of the birth brick. Announces the destiny of the newly born.
Heket: Female counterpart of Khnum, worshiped in Herur. Assists at birth. Was part of the circle of gods around Osiris at Abydos.

The stories in the Westcar Papyrus are thought to have been composed during the Middle Kingdom or the Second Intermediate Period.
Khufu: c. 2585-2566
Khafre: c. 2558-2532
Ptah: city god of Memphis
wax: frequently used by magicians for modelling (cf. p. Rollin or the demotic magical papyrus.)

[ 01-07-2006, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Raven on April 10, 2008, 01:25:17 pm
Author  Topic: Library of Alexandria 
Sarah

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Nice work, Riven, I found another two. Aren't there five in all?


The Tales from the Westcar Papyrus

King Khufu sat to hear tales told by his sons regarding the wonders of other days and the doings of magicians. The Prince Khafra stood before him and related the ancient story of the wax crocodile.

The Wax Crocodile

Once upon a time a Pharaoh went towards the temple of the god Ptah. His counsellors and servants accompanied him. It chanced that he paid a visit to the villa of the chief scribe, behind which there was a garden with a stately summer house and a broad artificial lake. Among those who followed Pharaoh was a handsome youth, and the scribe's wife beheld him with love. Soon afterwards she sent gifts unto him, and they had secret meetings. They spent a day in the summer house, and feasted there, and in the evening the youth bathed in the lake. The chief butler then went to his master and informed him what had come to pass.
The scribe bade the servant to bring a certain magic box, and when he received it he made a small wax crocodile, over which he muttered a spell. He placed it in the hands of the butler, saying: "Cast this image into the lake behind the youth when next he bathes himself."
On another day, when the scribe dwelt with Pharaoh, the lovers were together in the summer house, and at eventide the youth went into the lake. The butler stole through the garden, and stealthily he cast into the water the wax image, which was immediately given life. It became a great crocodile that seized the youth suddenly and took him away.
Seven days passed, and then the scribe spoke to the Pharaoh regarding the wonder which had been done, and made request that His Majesty should accompany him to his villa. The Pharaoh did so, and when they both stood beside the lake in the garden the scribe spoke magic words, bidding the crocodile to appear. As he commanded, so did it do. The great reptile came out of the water carrying the youth in its jaws.
The scribe said: "Lo! it shall do whatever I command to be done."
Said the Pharaoh: "Bid the crocodile to return at once to the lake."
Ere he did that, the scribe touched it, and immediately it became a small image of wax again. The Pharaoh was filled with wonder, and the scribe related unto him all that had happened, while the youth stood waiting.
Said His Majesty unto the crocodile: "Seize the wrongdoer."
The wax image was again given life, and, clutching the youth, leaped into the lake and disappeared. Nor was it ever seen after that. Then Pharaoh gave command that the wife of the scribe should be seized. On the north side of the house she was bound to a stake and burned alive, and what remained of her was thrown into the Nile.

Such was the tale told by Khafra. Khufu was well pleased, and caused offerings of food and refreshment to be placed in the tombs of the Pharaoh and his wise servant.
Prince Khafra stood before His Majesty, and said: "I will relate a marvel which happened in the days of King Sneferu, thy father." Then he told the story of the green jewel. The stories in the Westcar Papyrus are thought to have been composed during the Middle Kingdom or the Second Intermediate Period.
Khufu: c. 2585-2566
Khafre: c. 2558-2532
Ptah: city god of Memphis
wax: frequently used by magicians for modelling (cf. p. Rollin or the demotic magical papyrus.)


The Story of the Green Jewel

Sneferu was one day disconsolate and weary. He wandered about the palace with desire to be cheered, nor was there aught to take the gloom from his mind. He caused his chief scribe to be brought before him, and said: "I would fain have entertainment, but cannot find any in this place."
The scribe said: "Thy Majesty should go boating on the lake, and let the rowers be the prettiest girls in your harem. It will delight your heart to see them splashing the water where the birds dive and to gaze upon the green shores and the flowers and trees. I myself will go with you."
The king consented, and twenty virgins who were fair to behold went into the boat, and they rowed with oars of ebony which were decorated with gold. His Majesty took pleasure in the outing, and the gloom passed from his heart as the boat went hither and thither, and the girls sang together with sweet voices.
It chanced, as they were turning round, an oar handle brushed against the hair of the girl who was steering, and shook from it a green jewel, which fell into the water. She lifted up her oar and stopped singing, and the others grew silent and ceased rowing.
Said Sneferu: "Do not pause; let us go on still farther."
The girls said: "She who steers has lifted her oar."
Said Sneferu to her: "Why have you lifted your oar?"
"Alas, I have lost my green jewel she said it has fallen into the lake."
Sneferu said: "I will give you another; let us go on."
The girl pouted and made answer: "I would rather have my own green jewel again than any other."
His Majesty said to the chief scribe: "I am given great enjoyment by this novelty; indeed my mind is much refreshed as the girls row me up and down the lake. Now one of them has lost her green jewel, which has dropped into the water, and she wants it back again and will not have another to replace it." Sneferu: c. 2613-2589

The chief scribe at once muttered a spell. Then by reason of his magic words the waters of the lake were divided like a lane. He went down and found the green jewel which the girl had lost, and came back with it to her. When he did that, he again uttered words of power, and the waters came together as they were before.
The king was well pleased, and when he had full enjoyment with the rowing upon the lake he returned to the palace. He gave gifts to the chief scribe, and everyone wondered at the marvel which he had accomplished.

the waters of the lake were divided like a lane: cf. Exodus 14, 21 ... the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. The Hebrew tradition with its strong condemnation of magic gives a 'reasonable' explanation for the occurrence - reasonable, if one believes in an almighty god playing around with the so-called laws of physics. To the Egyptians on the other hand magic was an inseparable part of life, a tool to be embraced rather than shunned.
Such was Khafra's tale of the green jewel, and King Khufu commanded that offerings should be laid in the tombs of Sneferu and his chief scribe, who was a great magician.
Next Prince Hordadef stood before the king, and he said: "Your Majesty has heard tales regarding the wonders performed by magicians in other days, but I can bring forth a worker of marvels who now lives in the kingdom."

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/westcar_papyrus.htm

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:17:04 pm
 
Sarah

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King Khufu must have been a man of great stature, even among the Pharoahs.
So, exactly why are they assumed to be forgeries?

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:17:50 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-07-2006 03:47 PM                       
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I'm not sure what you mean specificaly by "forgeries", the lineage of Kings from Snofru,Khufu,Khafre and Menkaure, was as you can see a lineage of poisoned blood for Egypt.
I recently posted an article in TOA detailing a little more about Khufu's son's and how they were commiting atrocities of murder even amongst themselves...hence, the seed of Cain.

They were great Kings, but of a different nature that carried the seed into Phoenicia, a seed that grew towards the destruction of nations and The Library of Alexandria.

This era seems to have the highest impact upon the direction of Egypt,until the prodigal Son.

Hence, by then, the tongue was forked, so to say.

The next era of importance is Sesostris II, ca 1860.bC,The Egyptian Hercules, who subjugated Crete,Peleponnesia and Attica.

Then, along came the "Hyksos" ca 1650.bC, and the great wars with Persians and Assyrians through to the new "Middle Kingdom" of corrupted Ramses Kings, who also carried this seed.

Around the time when Solon travelled to Egypt,ca 570.bC, and the Assyrians were poised upon Egypt, The Highest Priest of Sais, Uadjahor-Resne, finaly revealed the Truth of Atlantis, a once great parent of the entire mediterranean.

Then along came Alexander, who built the Great Library and conquered the known world...but as we read on, it becomes clear what the true intent of Aristotle was, partially for having lost the favor of Alexanders Father, King Phillip of Macedonia.

It is pure irony, that these Macedonians also invaded Troy, which we could think of as a pre-Alexander period ca 1200.bC.

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So we see two of the greatest poisons, "Conquer the World" and "They Shall be put to Death".
.................................................

Here's some more research for Alexandria.

Authors of Alexandria.

Proclus of Diadochus 411-485.aD. Constantinople.

Proclus's father, Particius, and his mother, Marcella, were citizens of high social position in Lycia. Particius was a senior law official in the courts at Byzantium. Proclus was brought up at Xanthus, on the south coast of Lycia, where he attended school.

He returned to Alexandria where now he studied philosophy under Olympiodorus the Elder, in particular making a deep study of the works of Aristotle.

Proclus was not entirely satisfied with the education he was receiving in philosophy in Alexandria so, while still a teenager, he moved from Alexandria to Athens where he studied at Plato's Academy under the philosophers Plutarch and Syrianus (a pupil of Plutarch). He progressed from being a student at the Academy to teaching there then, on the death of Syrianus, Proclus became head of the Academy. The title Diadochus was given to him at this time, the meaning of the word being successor.

Proclus was to remain as head of the Academy until his death.

He followed the neoplatonist philosophy which Plotinus founded, and Porphyry and Iamblichus developed around 300 AD. Other developers of these ideas were Plutarch and Syrianus, the teachers of Proclus.

seven hymns preserved.

... for Proclus the "Elements of Euclid" had the good fortune not to be contradicted either by the Chaldean Oracles or by the speculations of Pythagoreans old and new.

it is against [the principles of geometry] that most critics of geometry have raised objections, endeavouring to show that these parts are not firmly established. Of those in this group whose arguments have become notorious some, such as the Sceptics, would do away with all knowledge ... whereas others, like the Epicureans, propose only to discredit the principles of geometry. Another group of critics, however, admit the principles but deny that the propositions coming after the principles can be demonstrated unless they grant something that is not contained in the principles. This method of controversy was followed by Zeno of Sidon, who belonged to the school of Epicurus and against whom Posidonius has written a whole book and shown that his views are thoroughly unsound.

Among Proclus's many works are Liber de causis (Book of Causes), Institutio theologica (Elements of Theology), a concise exposition of metaphysics, Elements of Physics, largely giving Aristotle's views, and In Platonis theologiam (Platonic Theology) giving Plato's metaphysics. His contribution is well summarised in [1] as follows:-

Proclus deserves to be remembered ... for the qualities he possessed that are exceedingly rare in any age and were almost unique in his: the logical clarity and firmness of his thought, the acuteness of his analyses, his eagerness to understand and readiness to present the views of his predecessors on controversial issues, the sustained coherence of his lengthy expositions, and the large horizon, as broad as the whole of being, within which his thinking moved.



Aristotle-Born: 384 BC in Stagirus, Macedonia, Greece
..........Died: 322 BC in Chalcis, Euboea, Greece

Aristotle, more than any other thinker, determined the orientation and the content of Western intellectual history. He was the author of a philosophical and scientific system that through the centuries became the support and vehicle for both medieval Christian and Islamic scholastic thought: until the end of the 17th century, Western culture was Aristotelian. And, even after the intellectual revolutions of centuries to follow, Aristotelian concepts and ideas remained embedded in Western thinking.

Aristotle was born in Stagirus, or Stagira, or Stageirus, on the Chalcidic peninsula of northern Greece. His father was Nicomachus, a medical doctor, while his mother was named Phaestis. Nicomachus was certainly living in Chalcidice when Aristotle was born and he had probably been born in that region. Aristotle's mother, Phaestis, came from Chalcis in Euboea and her family owned property there.

(Seems rather amusing for one to wonder if Aristotle could also have been Chalcidius consider this also...When Aristotle was about ten years old his father died-Riven)

Aristotle was brought up by a guardian, Proxenus of Atarneus, who was his uncle

In 367 BC Aristotle, at the age of seventeen, became a student at Plato's Academy in Athens

Plato was not in Athens, but rather he was on his first visit to Syracuse

We should not think of Plato's Academy as a non-political organisation only interested in abstract ideas. The Academy was highly involved in the politics of the time, in fact Plato's visit to Sicily was for political reasons, and the politics of the Academy and of the whole region would play a major role in influencing the course of Aristotle's life.

When Aristotle arrived in Athens, the Academy was being run by Eudoxus of Cnidos in Plato's absence. Speusippus, Plato's nephew, was also teaching at the Academy as was Xenocrates of Chalcedon. After being a student, Aristotle soon became a teacher at the Academy and he was to remain there for twenty years. We know little regarding what Aristotle taught at the Academy. In [10] Diogenes Laertius, writing in the second century AD, says that Aristotle taught rhetoric and dialectic. Certainly Aristotle wrote on rhetoric at this time, issuing Gryllus which attacked the views on rhetoric of Isocrates, who ran another major educational establishment in Athens. All Aristotle's writings of this time strongly support Plato's views and those of the Academy.


Amyntas III, king of Macedonia.

Two of Amyntas's sons, Alexander II and Perdiccas III, each reigned Macedonia for a time but the kingdom suffered from both internal disputes and external wars. In 359 BC Amyntas's third son, Philip II came to the throne when Perdiccas was killed fighting off an Illyrian invasion.

Philip captured Olynthus and annexed Chalcidice in 348 BC. Stagirus, the town of Aristotle's birth, held out for a while but was also defeated by Philip. Athens worried about the powerful threatening forces of Macedonia, and yet Aristotle had been brought up at the Court of Macedonia and had probably retained his friendship with Philip.

Plato died in 347 BC and Speusippus assumed the leadership of the Academy. Aristotle was certainly opposed to the views of Speusippus and he may have left the Academy following Plato's death for academic reasons or because he failed to be named head of the Academy himself. Some sources, however, suggest that he may have left for political reasons before Plato died because of his unpopularity due to his Macedonian links.

Aristotle travelled from Athens to Assos which faces the island of Lesbos. He was not alone in leaving the Academy for Xenocrates of Chalcedon left with him. In Assos Aristotle was received by the ruler Hermias of Atarneus with much acclaim. It is likely that Aristotle was acting as an ambassador for Philip and he certainly was treated as such by Hermias. Aristotle married Pythias, the niece and adopted daughter of Hermias, and they had one child, a daughter also called Pythias. However, Aristotle's wife died about 10 years after their marriage. It is thought that she was much younger than Atistotle, being probably of age of about 18 when they married.

On Assos, Aristotle became the leader of the group of philosophers which Hermias had gathered there.

On Kingship which is now lost

Aristotle probably begun his work Politics on Assos as well as On Kingship which is now lost. He began to develop a philosophy distinct from that of Plato who had said the kings should be philosophers and philosophers kings. In On Kingship Aristotle wrote that it is:-

... not merely unnecessary for a king to be a philosopher, but even a disadvantage. Rather a king should take the advice of true philosophers. Then he would fill his reign with good deeds, not with good words.

However, Aristotle's time in Assos was ended by political events. The Persians attacked the town and Hermias was captured and executed. Aristotle escaped and stopped on the island of Lesbos on his way to Macedonia. It was more than a passing visit for he remained there for about a year and must have had the group of scientists from Assos with him for they continued their biological researches there.

Macedonia was now at peace with Athens, for Philip had made a treaty in 346 BC. In 343 BC Aristotle reached the Court of Macedonia and he was to remain there for seven years. The often quoted story that he became tutor to the young Alexander the Great, the son of Philip, is almost certainly a later invention as was pointed out by Jaeger, see [16]. Grayeff in [12] suggests that Philip saw in Aristotle a future head of the Academy in Athens. Certainly this would have suited Philip well for Speusippus, the then head of the Academy, was strongly opposed to Philip and strongly encouraging Athens to oppose the rise of Macedonia

The treaty between Athens and Macedonia began to fall apart in 340 BC and preparations for war began. The following year Speusippus died but Aristotle, although proposed as head of the Academy, was not elected. The position went to Xenocrates and Philip lost interest in his support for Aristotle.

Aristotle did not marry again after the death of his wife but he did form a relationship with Herpyllis, who came from his home town of Stagirus. It is not clear when they first met but together they had a son, Nicomachus, named after Aristotle's father.

Philip was now at the height of his power but, as so often happens, that proved the time for internal disputes. Aristotle supported Alexander, Philip's son who soon became king. Alexander decided on a policy similar to his father in regard to Athens and sought to assert his power by peaceful means. Alexander protected the Academy and encouraged it to continue with its work. At the same time, however, he sent Aristotle to Athens to found a rival establishment.

In 335 BC Aristotle founded his own school the Lyceum in Athens.

According to a tradition which arose about two hundred and fifty years after his death, which then became dominant and even today is hardly disputed, Aristotle in these same years lectured - not once, but two or three times, in almost every subject - on logic, physics, astronomy, meteorology, zoology, metaphysics, theology, psychology, politics, economics, ethics, rhetoric, poetics; and that he wrote down these lectures, expanding them and amending them several times, until they reached the stage in which we read them. However, still more astounding is the fact that the majority of these subjects did not exist as such before him, so that he would have been the first to conceive of and establish them, as systematic disciplines.

After the death of Alexander the Great in 323 BC, anti-Macedonian feeling in Athens made Aristotle retire to Chalcis where he lived in the house which had once belonged to his mother and was still retained by the family. He died the following year from a stomach complaint at the age of 62.

He was a bit of a dandy, wearing rings on his fingers and cutting his hair fashionably short. He suffered from poor digestion, and is said to have been spindle-shanked. He was a good speaker, lucid in his lectures, persuasive in conversation; and he had a mordant wit. His enemies, who were numerous, made him out to be arrogant and overbearing. ... As a man he was, I suspect, admirable rather than amiable.

Aristotle never intended these 30 works which fill over 2000 printed pages to be published. They are certainly lecture notes from the courses given at the Lyceum either being, as most scholars believe, the work of Aristotle, or of later lecturers. Of course it is distinctly possible that they are notes of courses originally given by Aristotle but later added to by other lecturers after Aristotle's death.

The works were first published in about 60 BC by Andronicus of Rhodes, the last head of the Lyceum. Certainly [2]:-

The form, titles, and order of Aristotle's texts that are studied today were given to them by Andronicus almost three centuries after the philosopher's death, and the long history of commentary upon them began at this stage.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Aristotle.html

Andronicus of Rhodes 60.bC
Antiphon
Bryson
Callipus
Euclid
Eudoxus
Hippocrates
Hipparchus
Hippias
Iamblichus
Nicomachus
Proclus
Pythagoras
Plotinus
Porphyry
Posidonius
Ptolemy
Plutarch
Syrianus
Theodorus
Theaetetus
Zeno of Sidon

Mathematicians born before 500 AD
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Indexes/_500_AD.html
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[ 01-07-2006, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:18:29 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 01-07-2006 09:19 PM                       
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Welcome back to our side of the forum, Riven, hope you had a good Christmas.

Do you have anything more on the Hyksos? I see the name mentioned a lot around here but don't see them mentioned in ancient history a lot myself.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:18:56 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-07-2006 10:16 PM                       
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Just google the noodle Jenni;

My apologies, I hope you had a nice holiday season also, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

One of the Hyksos scripts,which I posted in Atlantis forums, somewhere for it escapes me, is an excellent example and comparison to Critias, even down to "the ending has been lost"

They were around 1650.bC and are in The Kings Lists of Egypt as the Hyksos Kings.

Perhaps, this could have been the new "H" tribes of Phoenicia to come to power and brand their "H" everywhere.

Some new updates for you in my website's Mysterean link, and a brand new logo.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Riven_Logo.bmp

I put a little one on the Horse in my Avatar. 

Something a little complex for the simple mind;

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Giza_Model_Pythagoras_Riven06.GIF

Enjoy!

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:19:37 pm
Brooke

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   posted 01-08-2006 12:01 AM                       
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Who Were the Hyksos?

Unsolved problems in Egyptology: What was the origin of the Hyksos? Who were their first leaders?The term "Hyksos" derives from the expression heka khasewet (Rulers of Foreign Lands), used in Egyptian texts like the Turin King List to describe the rulers of neighboring lands. This expression begins to appear as early as the late Old Kingdom in Egypt, referring to various Nubian chieftains; and as early as the Middle Kingdom, referring to the bedouin chieftains of Syria and Canaan. It is generally accepted that only the six kings of the Fifteenth Dynasty are to properly be called "Hyksos", because not only do they bear Egyptian royal titles, but they are specifically called Hyksos by Manetho. It is generally agreed that these six Hyksos kings of Egypt ruled a total of about 108 years.

Wolfgang Helck argued that the Hyksos were part of massive and widespread Hurrian and Indo-Aryan migrations into the Near East. According to Helck, the Hyksos were Hurrians and part of a Hurrian empire that, he claimed, extended over much of Western Asia at this period.

The names, the order, and even the total number of the Fifteenth Dynasty rulers are not known with any certainty. The names appear in hieroglyphs on monuments and small objects such as jar lids and scarabs. In those instances in which Prenomen and Nomen do not occur together on the same object, there is no certainty that the names belong together as the two names of a single person. This period of Egyptian history is a chronological nightmare that only additional datable archaeological material can resolve.

Manetho's history of Egypt is known only through the works of others, such as Flavius Josephus. These sources do not list the names of the six rulers in the same order. To complicate matters further, the spellings are so distorted that they are useless for chronological purposes; there is no close or obvious connection between the bulk of these names — Salitis, Beon/Bnon, Apachnan/Pachnan, annas/Staan, Apophis, Assis/Archles — and the Egyptian names that appear on scarabs and other objects. The hieroglyphic names of the Fifteenth Dynasty Hyksos rulers as they are known from monuments, scarabs, and other objects are:

Sa-kha-en-ra Shalik (Each name is only found separately.)
Ma-ib-ra Sheshy (?) (Each name is only found separately.)
Mer-woser-ra Yaqob-her (Both names are found together on one scarab.)
Se-woser-en-ra Khayan (Both names are found together.)
Apopi (Three different Prenomens: Aawoserra, Aaqenenra, and Nebkhepeshra)
Aa-sech-ra Khamudy (Each name is only found separately.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:20:19 pm
Brooke

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I'm surprised that the current archaeological trend no longer supports the "invasion" theory:

Was There a Hyksos Invasion?

Manetho's account of the appearance of the Hyksos in Egypt calls it an armed invasion by a horde of foreign barbarians who met little resistance and who subdued the country by military force. It has been claimed that new revolutionary methods of warfare ensured the Hyksos the ascendancy in their invasion. Herbert Winlock in his book The Rise and Fall of the Middle Kingdom in Thebes describes new military hardware, such as the composite bow and most importantly the horse-drawn war chariot, as well as improved arrowheads, various kinds of swords and daggers, a new type of shield, mailed shirts, and the metal helmet. To say that even some of this military hardware had been brought into Egypt by the Hyksos and was not the result of a native Egyptian development does not necessarily point to a violent armed invasion by Asiatic hordes. Simply put, they had superior military hardware, so when military moves were called for, the Hyksos had the preponderance of military might on their side.

Helck supported the idea of an invasion, because it was part of his Hurrian hypothesis. However, the generally accepted view today is reflected as a peaceful infiltration of several different groups of Western Asiatic peoples, mainly Semites, into the eastern Nile Delta during the closing decades of the Middle Kingdom -- in some cases as slaves of the victorious Egyptians. Von Beckerath adds that to suppose any armed invasion of Egypt by Semites from southern Canaan and the Sinai desert is out of the question because the tribes there simply were not strong enough. Furthermore there was no consolidated state in the region from which such a supposed invasion could have been launched. The Hyksos' realm was not the southern extension of a great Hurrian empire, as Helck thought, for the simple reason that there was never any Hurrian empire. Over the years, then, the numbers of these Asiatics in the eastern Delta increased, and gradually they extended their political control over the local Egyptian towns and princedoms there. Finally a point was reached when one group of leaders came to the same conclusion as Pepin the Short did in the Merovingian kingdom so many centuries later when he posed the question whether it was right that one of royal race and who bore the title king but who exercised no effective power in the kingdom should continue to bear the title of king. These Hyksos leaders thereupon took matters into their own hands, attacked and overran the administrative capital at Memphis, and proceeded to make themselves pharaohs.

Nor was there any great Hyksos empire extending over hither Asia, as was once thought. The chief evidence for such a Hyksos empire in Asia consists of a mass of Hyksos scarabs from southwest Canaan, an alabaster jar-lid from Knossos on Crete, and a small granite lion from Baghdad. Scarabs with Hyksos names have even been found as far south as Kerma in the Sudan. All these items have been satisfactorily explained as items of trade, not as indicators of direct political and military control.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:20:45 pm
Brooke

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The Thebean Offensive

Under Sekenenra Tao (II)

The war against the Hyksos began in the closing years of the Seventeenth Dynasty at Thebes. Later New Kingdom literary tradition has brought one of these Theban kings, Seqenenra Tao (II), into contact with his Hyksos contemporary in the north, Aauserra Apopi. Seqenenra is the father of the ruler above whose advisors counselled against disturbing the accommodation that had been reached with the Asiatics. The tradition took the form of a tale in which the Hyksos king Apopi sent a messenger to Seqenenra in Thebes to demand that the Theban hippopotamus pool be done away with, for the noise of these beasts was such that he was unable to sleep in far-away Avaris. Perhaps the only historical information that can be gleaned from the tale is that Egypt was a divided land, the area of direct Hyksos control being in the north, but the whole of Egypt possibly paying tribute to the Hyksos kings.

Seqenenra participated in active diplomatic posturing, which probably consisted of more than simply exchanging of insults with the Asiatic ruler in the North. He seems to have led military skirmishes against the Hyksos, and judging from the vicious head wound on his mummy in the Cairo Museum, he may have died during one of them. His son and successor, Wadjkheperra Kamose, the last ruler of the Seventeenth Dynasty at Thebes, is credited with the opening campaigns of the Theban war against the Hyksos.

It should be noted that Seqenera Tao has been proposed as the legendary Hiram Abif by the authors of the book The Hiram Key. Per the authors Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, Hiram Abif (the master mason of King Solomon's Temple in masonic lore) can be traced to the historical personage of Seqenenra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

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"The most incomprehensible thing about our universe is that it can be comprehended." - Albert Einstein

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:21:19 pm
 
Brooke

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Summary

The Hyksos were Asiatics who filtered into the eastern Egyptian Delta around the middle of the Thirteenth Dynasty during a period of internal Egyptian weakness. The Thirteenth Dynasty rulers had moved the capital of the country north to a centrally located town called Itjtawy near Memphis, near the apex of the Delta. Seizing the kingship, the Hyksos ruled Egypt for over one hundred years, composing the Fifteenth Dynasty. The heterogeneous Sixteenth Dynasty was partly Hyksos, but also composed of local Egyptian rulers who had no choice but to go along with their new overlords. This general period of Egyptian weakness and foreign occupation is called the Second Intermediate Period, or more popularly, the Hyksos Period. The local princes in Thebes in the south formed the Seventeenth Dynasty when the Hyksos overran It-tawy and forced the ephemeral rulers there into subservience. These vigorous Theban rulers kept the flame of Egyptian independence alive and finally were able to lead a war of liberation that expelled the Asiatics. The Hyksos rulers and their military forces were driven from Egypt. Egypt was free, and Ahmose and his successors of the Eighteenth Dynasty could turn to the task of reconstruction. Some historians have linked the biblical story of Joseph with the Hyksos regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:22:03 pm
Riven

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The Power of Plato by Riven......

The Power of Alexandria.

The Power of Atlantis....

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Giza_Model_Pythagoras_Riven06.GIF

Seeing is Believing. 
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:22:42 pm
Aphrodite

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Love everyone's contributions here. It appears we are making our own bastion of knowledge for the knowledge of the ancients.

Here is mine, one of the teachers at Alexandria, a man who's ideas could have changed the world had the world actually had the intelligence to utilize more of the principles he came up with:


quote:
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Heron of Alexandria

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Born: about 10 in (possibly) Alexandria, Egypt
Died: about 75

Sometimes called Hero, Heron of Alexandria was an important geometer and worker in mechanics. Perhaps the first comment worth making is how common the name Heron was around this time and it is a difficult problem in the history of mathematics to identify which references to Heron are to the mathematician described in this article and which are to others of the same name. There are additional problems of identification which we discuss below.

A major difficulty regarding Heron was to establish the date at which he lived. There were two main schools of thought on this, one believing that he lived around 150 BC and the second believing that he lived around 250 AD. The first of these was based mainly on the fact that Heron does not quote from any work later than Archimedes. The second was based on an argument which purported to show that he lived later that Ptolemy, and, since Pappus refers to Heron, before Pappus.

Both of these arguments have been shown to be wrong. There was a third date proposed which was based on the belief that Heron was a contemporary of Columella. Columella was a Roman soldier and farmer who wrote extensively on agriculture and similar subjects, hoping to foster in people a love for farming and a liking for the simple life. Columella, in a text written in about 62 AD [5]:-

... gave measurements of plane figures which agree with the formulas used by Heron, notably those for the equilateral triangle, the regular hexagon (in this case not only the formula but the actual figures agree with Heron's) and the segment of a circle which is less than a semicircle ...

However, most historians believed that both Columella and Heron were using an earlier source and claimed that the similarity did not prove any dependence. We now know that those who believed that Heron lived around the time of Columella were in fact correct, for Neugebauer in 1938 discovered that Heron referred to a recent eclipse in one of his works which, from the information given by Heron, he was able to identify with one which took place in Alexandria at 23.00 hours on 13 March 62.

From Heron's writings it is reasonable to deduce that he taught at the Museum in Alexandria. His works look like lecture notes from courses he must have given there on mathematics, physics, pneumatics, and mechanics. Some are clearly textbooks while others are perhaps drafts of lecture notes not yet worked into final form for a student textbook.

Pappus describes the contribution of Heron in Book VIII of his Mathematical Collection. Pappus writes (see for example [8]):-

The mechanicians of Heron's school say that mechanics can be divided into a theoretical and a manual part; the theoretical part is composed of geometry, arithmetic, astronomy and physics, the manual of work in metals, architecture, carpentering and painting and anything involving skill with the hands.

... the ancients also describe as mechanicians the wonder-workers, of whom some work by means of pneumatics, as Heron in his Pneumatica, some by using strings and ropes, thinking to imitate the movements of living things, as Heron in his Automata and Balancings, ... or by using water to tell the time, as Heron in his Hydria, which appears to have affinities with the science of sundials.
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http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Heron.html

[ 01-08-2006, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Aphrodite ]

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:23:14 pm
Aphrodite

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On the dioptra dealing with theodolites and surveying. It contains a chapter on astronomy giving a method to find the distance between Alexandria and Rome using the difference between local times at which an eclipse of the moon is observed at each cities. The fact that Ptolemy does not appear to have known of this method led historians to mistakenly believe Heron lived after Ptolemy;

The pneumatica in two books studying mechanical devices worked by air, steam or water pressure. It is described in more detail below;

The automaton theatre describing a puppet theatre worked by strings, drums and weights;

Belopoeica describing how to construct engines of war. It has some similarities with work by Philon and also work by Vitruvius who was a Roman architect and engineer who lived in the 1st century BC;

The cheirobalistra about catapults is thought to be part of a dictionary of catapults but was almost certainly not written by Heron;

Mechanica in three books written for architects and described in more detail below;

Metrica which gives methods of measurement. We give more details below;
Definitiones contains 133 definitions of geometrical terms beginning with points, lines etc. In [15] Knorr argues convincingly that this work is in fact due to Diophantus;

Geometria seems to be a different version of the first chapter of the Metrica based entirely on examples. Although based on Heron's work it is not thought to be written by him;

Stereometrica measures three-dimensional objects and is at least in part based on the second chapter of the Metrica again based on examples. Again it is though to be based on Heron's work but greatly changed by many later editors;

Mensurae measures a whole variety of different objects and is connected with parts of Stereometrica and Metrica although it must be mainly the work of a later author;

Catoprica deals with mirrors and is attributed by some historians to Ptolemy although most now seem to believe that this is a genuine work of Heron. In this work, Heron states that vision results from light rays emitted by the eyes. He believes that these rays travel with infinite velocity.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Heron.html

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:24:03 pm
 
Aphrodite

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Let us examine some of Heron's work in a little more depth. Book I of his treatise Metrica deals with areas of triangles, quadrilaterals, regular polygons of between 3 and 12 sides, surfaces of cones, cylinders, prisms, pyramids, spheres etc. A method, known to the Babylonians 2000 years before, is also given for approximating the square root of a number. Heron gives this in the following form (see for example [5]):-

Since 720 has not its side rational, we can obtain its side within a very small difference as follows. Since the next succeeding square number is 729, which has 27 for its side, divide 720 by 27. This gives 26 2/3. Add 27 to this, making 53 2/3, and take half this or 26 5/6. The side of 720 will therefore be very nearly 26 5/6. In fact, if we multiply 26 5/6 by itself, the product is 720 1/36, so the difference in the square is 1/36. If we desire to make the difference smaller still than 1/36, we shall take 720 1/36 instead of 729 (or rather we should take 26 5/6 instead of 27), and by proceeding in the same way we shall find the resulting difference much less than 1/36.

Heron also proves his famous formula in Book I of the Metrica :

if A is the area of a triangle with sides a, b and c and s = (a + b + c)/2 then
A2 = s (s - a)(s - b)(s - c).


In Book II of Metrica, Heron considers the measurement of volumes of various three dimensional figures such as spheres, cylinders, cones, prisms, pyramids etc. His preface is interesting, partly because knowledge of the work of Archimedes does not seem to be as widely known as one might expect (see for example [5]):-

After the measurement of surfaces, rectilinear or not, it is proper to proceed to solid bodies, the surfaces of which we have already measured in the preceding book, surfaces plane and spherical, conical and cylindrical, and irregular surfaces as well. The methods of dealing with these solids are, in view of their surprising character, referred to Archimedes by certain writers who give the traditional account of their origin. But whether they belong to Archimedes or another, it is necessary to give a sketch of these results as well.

Book III of Metrica deals with dividing areas and volumes according to a given ratio. This was a problem which Euclid investigated in his work On divisions of figures and Heron's Book III has a lot in common with the work of Euclid. Also in Book III, Heron gives a method to find the cube root of a number. In particular Heron finds the cube root of 100 and the authors of [9] give a general formula for the cube root of N which Heron seems to have used in his calculation:

a + b d/(b d + aD)(b - a),
where a3 < N < b3, d = N - a3, D = b3 - N.


In [9] it is remarked that this is a very accurate formula, but, unless a Byzantine copyist is to be blamed for an error, they conclude that Heron might have borrowed this accurate formula without understanding how to use it in general.

The Pneumatica is a strange work which is written in two book, the first with 43 chapters and the second with 37 chapters. Heron begins with a theoretical consideration of pressure in fluids. Some of this theory is right but, not surprisingly, some is quite wrong. Then there follows a description of a whole collection of what might best be described as mechanical toys for children [1]:-

Trick jars that give out wine or water separately or in constant proportions, singing birds and sounding trumpets, puppets that move when a fire is lit on an altar, animals that drink when they are offered water ...

Although all this seems very trivial for a scientist to be involved with, it would appear that Heron is using these toys as a vehicle for teaching physics to his students. It seems to be an attempt to make scientific theories relevant to everyday items that students of the time would be familiar with.

There is, rather remarkably, descriptions of over 100 machines such as a fire engine, a wind organ, a coin-operated machine, and a steam-powered engine called an aeolipile. Heron's aeolipile, which has much in common with a jet engine, is described in [2] as follows:-

The aeolipile was a hollow sphere mounted so that it could turn on a pair of hollow tubes that provided steam to the sphere from a cauldron. The steam escaped from the sphere from one or more bent tubes projecting from its equator, causing the sphere to revolve. The aeolipile is the first known device to transform steam into rotary motion.

Heron wrote a number of important treatises on mechanics. They give methods of lifting heavy weights and describe simple mechanical machines. In particular the Mechanica is based quite closely on ideas due to Archimedes. Book I examines how to construct three dimensional shapes in a given proportion to a given shape. It also examines the theory of motion, certain statics problems, and the theory of the balance.

In Book II Heron discusses lifting heavy objects with a lever, a pulley, a wedge, or a screw. There is a discussion on centres of gravity of plane figures. Book III examines methods of transporting objects by such means as sledges, the use of cranes, and looks at wine presses.

Other works have been attributed to Heron, and for some of these we have fragments, for others there are only references. The works for which fragments survive include one on Water clocks in four books, and Commentary on Euclid's Elements which must have covered at least the first eight books of the Elements. Works by Heron which are referred to, but no trace survives, include Camarica or On vaultings which is mentioned by Eutocius and Zygia or On balancing mentioned by Pappus. Also in the Fihrist, a tenth century survey of Islamic culture, a work by Heron on how to use an astrolabe is mentioned.

Finally it is interesting to look at the opinions that various writers have expressed as to the quality and importance of Heron. Neugebauer writes [7]:-

The decipherment of the mathematical cuneiform texts made it clear that much of the "Heronic" type of Greek mathematics is simply the last phase of the Babylonian mathematical tradition which extends over 1800 years.

Some have considered Heron to be an ignorant artisan who copied the contents of his books without understanding what he wrote. This in particular has been levelled against the Pneumatica but Drachmann, writing in [1], says:-

... to me the free flowing, rather discursive style suggests a man well versed in his subject who is giving a quick summary to an audience that knows, or who might be expected to know, a good deal about it.

Some scholars have approved of Heron's practical skills as a surveyor but claimed that his knowledge of science was negligible. However, Mahony writes in [1]:-

In the light of recent scholarship, he now appears as a well-educated and often ingenious applied mathematician, as well as a vital link in a continuous tradition of practical mathematics from the Babylonians, through the Arabs, to Renaissance Europe.

Finally Heath writes in [5]:-

The practical utility of Heron's manuals being so great, it was natural that they should have great vogue, and equally natural that the most popular of them at any rate should be re-edited, altered and added to by later writers; this was inevitable with books which, like the "Elements" of Euclid, were in regular use in Greek, Byzantine, Roman, and Arabian education for centuries.

Article by: J J O'Connor and E F Robertson

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Heron.html

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"He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.” - Lao Tsu

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:24:56 pm
 
Riven

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  posted 01-08-2006 07:29 AM                       
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Thank you Aphrodite;

A wealth of knowledge we do indeed build for our Children and Theirs...

..if you can ever get them away from The Simpsons and Family Guy. 

Here's a copy of the post in Tribes II of the Hyksos story which compares to Critias.

posted 07-05-2004 04:12 AM
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We have discussed the Hyksos at some lengths in previous posts, so lets take another look at them since I brought up King Belus.
Here's some interesting comparisons with the Hykso of 1684-1567 bC..

Imagine if Solon learned of this story while he was visiting Egypt.

Lower Egypt was taken over seemingly with little fighting by the invading or perhaps just immigrant Hyksos.

Greek writers, beginning with Manetho, called them "Hyksos," which was mistranslated as "shepherd kings." Egyptians seem to have called these kings heqa-khasut, rulers of foreign lands, but they generally referred to invading foreigners as amu, asiatics or shamu, sand-dwellers.

The foundation of their capital Avaris, which used to be referred to as Tanis, and the beginning of their domination of the Delta took place in about 1720, according to the 400 year stela of Ramses II found there,

(Avaris>Atlas, Atlantis>Tanis)
(or compare Avaris to Sais)

Their rule over Lower Egypt lasted from the conquest of Memphis by Salitis (Sheshi) in 1674

Egyptian religion was respected; Egyptian was the language of government;

Their most important contributions to Egyptian culture were perhaps the introduction of Canaanite deities such as the Storm God whom they identified with Seth, (Poseidon>Earth Shaker)

Foreign culture became established at a few eastern Delta sites, and the Egyptians acquired new military techniques, such as the use of the horse-drawn chariot and the composite bow during this period

The Hyksos seem to have behaved in accordance with Egyptian manners, laws, and theories of monarchy since the times of Khyan (Iannas, last third of the 17th century).

They maintained tribute or trade relations with the Minoans and Babylonians and Egyptian artifacts bearing Khyan's name were found as far as Babylon, Knossos and Hatti.

An aggressive Egyptian family from Thebes waged a fierce set of wars against the Hyksos kings. Apepi I (Auserre, c.1600 to 1560) tried unsuccessfully to counter the threat posed by Tao II (Sekenenre) and Kamose (Apis Bull)

Amosis (Ahmose I), the great general, drove the Hyksos out of Egypt by 1550 (compares to the later Amasis as told in Critias)
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/history12-17.htm#amenemhetiii

To make it more interesting we have a written record of the quarrel between Apepi I and Sekenenre.
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/apophis.htm

It once happened that the land of Egypt was in misery, for there was no Lord, L.P.H., (as) (sole) king. A day came to pass when King Sekenenre, L.P.H., was (still only) ruler, L.P.H., of the Southern City. Misery was in the town of the Asiatics, for Prince Apophis, L.P.H., was in Avaris, and the entire land paid tribute to him, delivering their taxes, (and) even the north bringing every (sort of) good produce of the Delta. Sallier Papyrus, ca. 1274 BCE L.P.H.: Life, prosperity, health Sekenenre: Tao II Southern City: Thebes Apophis: Apepi I Auserre, (ca.1600 to 1560)Asiatics: Here: Hyksos
the town of the Asiatics: Avaris

So King Apophis, L.P.H., adopted Seth for himself as lord, and he refused to serve any god that was in the entire land ex[cept] Seth. He built a temple of fine workmanship for the eternity next to the House of the [King Apo]phis, L.P.H., and he appeared [at break of] day in order to sacrifice ... daily to Seth, while the officials [of the palace], L.P.H., carried garlands, exactly as is practiced (in) the temple of Pre-Harakhte.
Now as for King A[pophis], L.P.H., it was his wish to s[end] an inflammatory message (to) King Sekenenre, [L.P.H., the] Prince of the Southern City. And a[fter] many days following this, King [Apophis, L.P.H.], then had [the high official]s of his [palace] summoned, [and he proposed to them that a messenger should be] sent [to the Prince of the Southern City with] a complaint...[concerning the] river, [but he was unable to compose it himself.
Thereupon his] scribes and wise men... and high officials [said: "O so]vereign, [our lord, demand that there be a withdrawal from the] canal of hippopotamuses [which lies at the east of the City because] they don't let [sleep come to us either in the daytime or at ni]ght, [for the noise of them is (in) our citizens' ear(s)."
And King Apophis, L.P.H., answered them saying: "I shall send to the Prince of the [Southern Ci]ty... command... [that we may assess the power of the god who is] with him as protector. He does not rely upon any god that is in the [entire land] except Amun-Re, King of the Gods."
Now after many days following this, King Apophis, L.P.H., then sent to the Prince of the Southern City (with) the complaint that his scribes and wise men had concocted for him.
And when the messenger of King [A]pophis, L.P.H., reached the Prince of the Southern City, he was then taken into the presence of the Prince of the Southern City. Then one (Sekenenre) said to the messenger of King Apophis, L.P.H.: " Why have you been sent to the Southern City? Wherefore have you come journeying here?"
The messenger then told him: "It is King Apophis, L.P.H., who has sent (me) to you in order to say, 'Let there be a w[ithdrawa]l from the canal of hippopotamuses which lies at the east of the City, because they don't let sleep come to me either in the daytime or at night,' for the noise of them is (in) his citizens' ear(s)."
Then the Prince of the Southern City became stupefied for so long a while that he became unable to render [a reply] to the messenger of King Apophis, L.P.H. Finally the Prince of the Southern City said to him: "Is it through this (remark) that your Lord, L.P.H., would investigate matters regarding [the canal of hippopotamuses which lies at t]he east of the Southern City?"
Then the messenger [said to him: "Effectuate the m]atters for which he sent me."
[Then the Prince of the Southern City caused] th[e messenger of King Apophis, L.P.H.], to be taken care of [with] good [thing]s: meat, cakes,....[The Prince of the Southern City said to him: "Go and tell] your [lord], 'As for whatever you will tell him, he will do it,' so you shall tell [him]" ...
[Then the messenger of King] Apophis, L.P.H., hastened to journey to where his lord, L.P.H., was.
So the Prince of the Southern City had his high officials summoned, as well as every ranking soldier of his, and he repeated to them every issue concerning which King Apophis, L.P.H., had sent to him. Then they were uniformly silent for a long while, without being able to answer him, be it good or bad. Then King Apophis, L.P.H., sent to ................

(The remainder of the story is lost)

Where have we heard that before?
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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:25:24 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-08-2006 07:34 AM                       
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Also, it is falsely attributed to Chariots having come from the Hyksos.

Try 1000 years earlier:)

There were Chariots around 3500.bC as their were Dragon Claw Orbis Ships.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:26:09 pm
 
Riven

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  posted 01-08-2006 08:16 AM                       
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In effect we can divide the Kingdoms as follows;

6482.bC, the Destruction of The Great Flood,and "peak" warming of the Ice Age.

6000.bC, Crete,Malta Civilizations and Temple Building.

5000.bC The Civilization of Egypt. The change to Barbaric Warriors.

4000.bC Minoan Thallassocracy, (rulers of the Sea-Med.)

The Height of The Tarxiens,Malta known in The Bible as Tarshish. (Pharaoh Tshsh,Palermo Stone)

3500.bC The Bronze Age and The Battle of Atlantis, 10 Fallen Kings Narmer Palette,Gebel-el-Arak Knife, Tomb 100 map, Dragon Claw Orbis Ships, Chariots. Possible construction of Atlantean Twin Pyramids and Lions upon Egypt, just prior.

StoneHenge Erected, England.

3240.bC. The "NEW UNIFIED" Egypt of Pharaoh Menes (aka Narmer)
Respected of The Atlanteans who he also respected...JA and Atlantean Philosophy of Thoth, perhaps upto DEN.

Trades with Lebanon and Palestine abundant, Egyptian Ships Sail.

Sais and Buto Priesthoods of Tatenen.

2500.bC. The Trismegistus of Khufu from Snofru's Blood of Brine.
.........Philitis The Good Shepherd upon Egypt
.........The Oracle of The Prodigal Child not of the Blood of Khufu.
.........150 years of Darkness fall upon Egypt.

2000.bC. The poison of thou "Shalt be put to death" inflicted upon the lands by Egypt and Phoenicia from The Blood of Brine.

1862.bC Sesostris II Subjugates Europe and Phoenicia.

1500.bC Supposed Flood of Deukalion compares to 2600.bC Gilgamesh epic.

Ares Etruscan Atlanteans battle Greek Olympian Titans.

1700.bC, Hyksos retaliate (Greek name) for Shepherd Assyrio-Palestines of Ecbatana, perhaps.
Ecbatana has knowledge of Atlantis.

1500.bC. The Forked Tongue of Egypt and The Ramses Kings continue the "Poison" and merge bloodlines with Persia.

Zeus,Hera and Posedion replace Jove,Juno and Neptune.
Egytpian King Belus.

1200.bC Macedonian's launch Aechean Attack on Troia.

1190.bC Sea People pirates from Troia Battle launch attack upon Egypt, great time of depression throughout entire Mediterranean.

Phonecians spread throughout Europa and North Africa.

1000.bC Etruscan Thallassocracy, Carthage and Latins.

Greeks "terrified" to sail the Tyrhennian Mare until Massiliots ca 600.bC.

Muslim/Islamic Invasions-"thou shalt be put to death".

Fez Caps in Morocco.

Greeks forget Ancient History ca 800.bC.

Gades, Carthage, Tartessos, powerhouses of the Balearics.

700.bC, The Seven Hills of Rome, the Great Western "PUSHBACK" to preserve Christianity and Europa's History.

600.bC Solon Archonship at Athens.

570.bC Fate of Egyptian extinction leads to Saitic Head Priest, Uadjahor-Resne revealing the Truth of Solon and Atlantis.

332.bC Alexander The Great driven by Aristotle's Wand, The Bible already being Translated.

Great Library of Alexandria constructed in Egypt.

30.bC Great Roman Emperor, Augustus.

0 - Birth of Christ according to Constantine Bishops and The Bible's reformation of a Unified Religion with Phoenicia.

330.aD, Constantine Niceane Creed reforms religion and The Bible,joining East with West.

Chalcidius preserves Plato's work Timaeus, no record of Chalcidius for Critias.

413.aD, Hypatia the Neo-Platonist Murdered.

Fall of Alexandria, Fall of Wisdom.

800.aD. Irish Monk preserves Timaeus by Chalcidius.

1150.aD Ken Digby preserves Timaeus by Chalcidius bound with "The Song of Roland" -Normandy.


2575 years from Amassis II....Riven....

The Redeemer of Plato.

Atlantis Verified as Legend and not Myth. 


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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:26:50 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-09-2006 01:42 AM                       
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Nice timeline, Riven, with many new observations in it. You don't have Atlantis sinking in it, though, or is that to be the original 6482 bc date? Any particular reason why you choose that for the date of the Great Flood? The Deucalion flood dates to much later.

Not really sure how Malta fits in there, except as maybe an Atlantean colony of sorts.

It's interesting how both the Egyptian myths and the Bible have a character named "Seth" among them. Might they be the same one? Seth is seen as the good son in Adam & Eve, a sort of new hope for humankind. Seth in the Egypt story is a villain, could be that he is an Atlantean and the Egyptians wanted to villify him. Then, maybe "Seth" was just a common name back then.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:27:32 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-09-2006 09:54 PM                       
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Artemis;

There are many reasons for this 6482.bC date.

The Peak of the Ice Age.
The Flooding of the Bosphorous Straites.
The eruptions of Mt.Hekla and Mt.Vesuvius.
The mass extinction of cultures in Lower Egypt
The difference in Chaldaen Lunar and Egyptian Solar around 2700.bC (345/1000 yrs)
The average time of Creation by many scholars (ben franklin 4000-7000.bC).
The Chapters of The Old Testament.
The Eye of Ra Myth
The conjunction of Planets and Pluto leaving the hand of Orion into the Eye of Leo.(see Astrologicaly Atlantis)
The Day of Destruction/All Saints Day (Oct 31-Nov1st)
The Start of Temple building in Malta....

to name a few!

True, Seth, and Nephthys are the real Children of GEB, Osiris and Isis are Eastern influences perhaps with the rise of The Sun Temples, as we also see this Sirius Mystery, which really isn't a myster at all and irrelevant to Egypt other than to mark events accordingly when it was visible.

It has been recently discovered, I just posted in TOA, that our POLE STAR IS A "TRIPLE" STAR SYSTEM!!!!!

The Father,The Son,The Holy Ghost or The Hermes Trismegistus, or the 3 Pyramids of Giza also.

Funny that all this seems to point to a distant Galaxy that we may have come from...

this is my latest quest as you can see from my Pythagoras map.....

I believe we may have come from a Nebula or "extinct" Galaxy or Star System....

I'm not sure if they are entirely gone, though this saddens me to see the dance of Galaxies entwine with each other, even 4 0r 5 Galaxies at a time....

Seems there is no conditioner for Angel Hair.

I will find them though......in time.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:27:57 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 01-09-2006 11:34 PM                       
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Thanks for all the information on the Hyksos, Riven! Looks like you sure have done a lot of research into all of this. Have you always been interested in Atlantis, by the way, or is it just a recent development?
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:28:36 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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Thanks for all the information on the Hyksos, Riven! Looks like you sure have done a lot of research into all of this. Have you always been interested in Atlantis, by the way, or is it just a recent development?
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:29:11 pm
 
Sarah

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   posted 01-09-2006 11:52 PM                       
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Riven, about the idea of the Westcar Papyrus being a forgery, you have come across that idea in your researches, haven't you? I've also heard that one of the reasons that experts believe them to be forgeries is that something in them supports the idea of an earlier Sphinx. Haven't seen that in any of the passages I've come across yet, though.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:29:40 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 03:44 AM                       
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Jenni; Pearl of essence;

I grew up knowing about Atlantis like everyone else, Walt Disney and Cartoons,Video games....a Myth like Santa Clause...


Something that was and wasn't, but yet still is...


Truly, I never cared for History in high school, because it was mostly focused around "rebellions and fantasies of Lies".

Tis true, that we know more about the Americans than they...and this Queen of uncircumstance, but little of our own, always theirs...

Actualy, I was kicked out of Grade 12 at 17,worked summer jobs since I was 13. Worked Hard,played hard....

My first "Man's" job out of High School, was at a Steel manufacturer lifting 320 pound sheets of steel with Mr Monolith..Stanley. Quite the Character of a Giant Ogre with glasses and a tin lizzy hair do. (I lit his tool pouch on fire one time to buzz his mind, you know teens.)

I got paid 190 dollars and would in turn give my paycheck to my father who gave me 20.00.

I felt pretty small for the hard work and pride I came to understand and going through 5 pairs of work gloves a day full of steel slivers, to merit 20 measely bucks...but I worked, always more for our family and others.

When I worked for a certain Aerospace company, contracted also to NASA, we had 2 of the Astronauts present a talk in the lunchroom, after their talk, I intruded into their office, and walked up to the Astronaut, shook his hand, and gave him a picture of the Space shuttle with him and his co-pilot exiting it. 

Without boring you further, I am a Self taught person of many talents, and uncomprehensible gifts as you can see.

I tried automotive in college for a bit, but it just wasn't my cup of tea punching those dirty engines all day long.

High Performance car building is one of my passions, not volvos.

Back then, it was fast cars and fast women as you know.

After my father passed away, I recalled his words of how he told me about Kings and Queens that we were related to, and his work on the American Air force base in the Azores Islands, where I was born. He was a foremost Jazz drummer also. I also became a drummer and I have an LP with a Local band here when I was 15 years old back in 1976.

Searching for my Father's words, brought me back to Atlantis as a mature man with new understanding of the World, 2 years ago. Naturaly, if you google Azores, you will come to Atlantis. They are one and the same as we now know.

When I finaly found Timaeus and Critias, it was very touching and rang of truth, a truth I needed to know, for if these were my people, what happened to them, and why did they disappear?

I always knew the lies of the World, so, I realized I had not only a Great Empire to Save, but also our Great History...

clearly unbiased as you can see, for surely I would also be afraid of saying Ja was our Ancestral God that we remembered AFTER the Great Flood.

The Vatican will probably try to excorcise me, for this blasphemy against their Bactrian influences.

But, it will be I who excorcises them, and their demons.

You see, Jenni, that is also why they have the statue of Uadjahor-Resne in their Museum, because it is a very well thought of, and wisely chosen artifact with hidden meaning...other than the Fall of "Egytp".

The new insignia of the new pope, also reveals this, above a circle with a canal!

But the truth, is that, I have no wish, for I know how easily man can destroy that wish, to sit here for hours absorbing the secrets of the World at an astonishing rate, work, and support a family of 5....let alone the hunger of a Lioness!

No, this is not from me, but through me..

it is a great mystery unknown even to myself and what I am becoming for the Son of Man guides me...

"Tis not thy ink nor thy Books that I needeth to gaze upon...nor thy words of Doctrine"-Riven.


SaJaRa-Riven A True Atlantean King.

Thank you Jenni....be confident.

[ 01-10-2006, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:30:18 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 04:06 AM                       
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Sarah; Foal of the Woods.

Yes, the language of forgery is confirmed by those who know not.....

Funny you should say it was for the reason of the "Missing Sphinx".

I geuss we have our answer.

Djedi,The Magician, was not a liar.

It could have been he, who made the wood slither, for the "Spike" of Egypt, I see in The Vanished Labyrinth...

Let us rebuild our Great Library of Latium Tarraconensis.

Thank you...don't eat red berries.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:31:00 pm
 
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 05:37 AM                       
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Angel Haired Faith and Chivalry Chronos;


Twas not only the Library of Alexandria that was a great loss of wisdom, by the Allah or Allayah, whichever they can decide of not....

but also the Covenant of God...Ja.

For truly the Spike was laid upon the Labyrinth...

3300 years prior to the Second great destruction of Allah, when he found this great work....

which proclaimed him....and Mamounad in the Octagon of ....

[ 01-10-2006, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:31:52 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-10-2006 07:57 PM                       
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Riven, so why not 10,500 bc? So many other things were also happening in that time.

Redating of the Great Sphinx
Giza complex aligned with the Orion Constellation
End of the Ice Age
Possible Azilian writing
Nearer to Plato's traditional end for Atlantis of 9600 bc
Possible cataclysm happened at that time detailed in the book, Cataclysm
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:32:32 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 01-10-2006 08:04 PM                       
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Artemis,

I agree. Your post at... about Mexican like pyramids in China is alluring. 157 meters would agree with sea levels 11,500 years ago. But this is called a lake. Could it actually be an arm of the sea? We need more info.

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:33:06 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 01-10-2006 08:08 PM                       
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Wow, Riven, so you've only been studying Atlantis for the last two years? You'd never know it, you sure pick up fast. Didn't know America even had a base on the Azores.

"SaJaRa-Riven A True Atlantean King."

Ja - God?

Ra - Egyptian Sun God?

Sa....?

What's that mean..?
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:33:53 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-10-2006 08:15 PM                       
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Hi George,

I agree, it is intriguing. I will look for more information on it and post what I uncover at the Mayan topic when I find it. Hopefully, there are some pictures of them out there, too.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:34:44 pm
Sarah

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   posted 01-10-2006 08:33 PM                       
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Speaking of the Sphinx, saw an interesting special on it the other day, attributing Menkaure, son of Khufu as it's builder and not Khufe himself as previously thought. It was supposed to be a novel new theory, spoke of all sorts of evidence and that it was only a matter of time before this was a commonly accepted view.

Didn't buy it. Didn't even see any evidence to support it. The reason why it was even given any respectability at all was because a mainstream Egyptologist put it forth (who appeared to be Egyptian, by the way). He spoke of Atlantis as a myth, probably never looked into any of the details of it at all.

Well, actually, it it's pretty much a myth that Khufe, Khafre and the rest of their clan even had anything to do with the whole complex.

*Khufre's name is on a cartouche and on some blocks in the upper chamber of the Great Pyramid, and that's all, and it's misspelled at least once. The name continues around some blocks that are hidden, but the part that has the name on it it fully in view, meaning anyone could have forged it there.

*There are no names on the other two pyramids at all, far as I know.

*No names have been found on the Sphinx, nor does any Pharoah take credit for the Giza Pyramids or the Sphinx. It's more Egyptian supposition, not based on fact that links all this. To me, that's not a "real" science.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:35:30 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 08:36 PM                       
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Why not 100,500.bC Artemis?

Your answer lies in second of your line;
was only a matter of time,
when they trick upon the mind.

6482.bC Artemis. Last of Atlantis I.

Ah yes, the Octogoadian Gods of "Egytp",
was wise that they knew this number 8,
from a Ship that sailed, when all was fate,
for truly one can behold to read,
what manner of people landed upon the reed?

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:36:00 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 08:41 PM                       
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Jenni;

So you can see how is it this can be?

This SON of GOD is KING.

SaJaRa-Riven

This is from Linear A, and older.

The most important thing for our hidtory,
is that it all came AFTER the Great Flood.

When you have answered the riddle of Artemis,

your eyes will open a little more.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:38:17 pm
 
Riven

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  posted 01-10-2006 08:46 PM                       
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True Sarah;

Twas not the fate of the Pharaoh to build a Sphinx............

but to "discover" her lion face peeking out of the tent of Sand...

nor was the Great Pyramid of the Khufu hand.

Khufu didn't know the "Secrets" of the "Blueprinted" Pyramid like his Father at least had knowledge of....

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:38:46 pm
+Faith+

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The Pharoah Akhenaton has been singled out as sort of an oddball because he went against the presiding thought and introduced the idea of monotheism to his people in a time when they worshipped many gods.

But was he really so odd or was he, like Constantine the Great, given a glimpse of the one true God and wanted to share that with his people?

I think like Moses, he received a calling and tried to give his people an early version of Christianity. Not disrespect intended for the Egyptians proved they proved they were unsuited for it as a people, and so, God chose another.

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:39:38 pm
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-10-2006 09:42 PM                       
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The Christians destroyed the Library of Alexandria, because it was a place of pagan knowledge. It was part of an entire organized campaign to wipe our pagan worship once the Roman Empire converted to Christianity. We've already discussed this in part in one of my threads:


Three centuries of persecution of the pagans


314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.

324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.
325 Nicene Council. The godman gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'

326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.

330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.

335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists.” Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.

346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.

353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.

354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.
Execution of pagan priests begins.
A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.
First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.
The first lime factories are organised next to the closed pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.

357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).

359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.

361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).

364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.
An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”).
Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.
The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia – western Asia Minor) orders that religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday. Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.

365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.

370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).
Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.

372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.

373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term “pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.

375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.

380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:

"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”.
In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.
Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."

381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine' (thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.
In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.

382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.

384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.

385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.
Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.

386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.

388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.

389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.

391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.

392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares:
“The ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island.”
The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.

393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.

395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).

396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.

397 “Demolish them!” Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing pagan temples be demolished.

398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them that remain active).

399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.

400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.

401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still active temples of the city.
The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).

405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.

406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Euty****s continue the persecutions of the pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.

407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.

408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.

409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.

415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.
On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.

416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.

423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.

429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.
431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the godman – "Christ is complete God and complete man."

435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.

438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!

440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.

448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).
451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox doctrine over the 'Monophysites' – 'JC has single, divine nature.'

457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.

482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.

486 More “underground” pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.

523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress Arianism everywhere.
528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).

529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.

532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade against the pagans of Minor Asia.

542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan temples.

546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.

556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.

562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.

578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).

580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.

583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.

590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.


Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! … Published in Greek, Athens 1994
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Into the Darkness – The Triumph of Christian Barbarism

The Papal Princes – Christian Lords of Hell on Earth

1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ

Christianising of the Heathen – The "Conversion" of the


http://jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm

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"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:40:17 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 01-10-2006 10:13 PM                       
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Artemis,

I think you are on to the currect numbers. But I am also comfortable with 2,500 BC. Why, a decline of civlization occurred then, just as it did about 453 AD. Both dates can now be associated with the arrival of comets, and with the "dumbing down" of civilization itself.

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
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Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:41:23 pm
+Faith+

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   posted 01-11-2006 12:31 AM                       
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Heather, the persecution of the pagans might just as easily be blamed on the Romans as the Christians. One can hardly be a Christian if they still behave like a barbarian at heart.

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:42:42 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-11-2006 01:34 AM                       
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Heather,

Such a grim history, so much destruction of peaceful and happy peoples....Bringing the story up to 1248, finally wiping out the last happy and peaceful pagan refuge, exterminating the last pagan kingdom, the last legitimate royal family in Europe, in Finland, 300 years after the last pagan Czar (Ce-zar)turned Christian.

Interesting that the HRE army which wrought the final destruction against the last legitimate royals were hired from Switzerland by the Pope.....And the Pope STILL HAS THE HONORED SWISS GUARD AS HIS PERSONAL ARMED FORCE.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:43:11 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-11-2006 08:50 AM                       
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Faith;

Funny you should say that, for I thought the same thing, that this Pharaoh had a "special gift". I haven't looked deeper into his bio, but he does hold a placemark in history, much the same as the Great Pharaohs in the time of Hatshesput.

Heather;

The tongue is forked for this reason,

To speak thy own language
To speak thy other language.

With this wisdom, they turn your own tongue against you.

HinH HtimeH HyouH HwillH HcomeH HtoH HknowH...

hAVILAh.

[ 01-11-2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:43:41 pm
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-11-2006 10:05 PM                       
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Riven, I hope you're not implying that the persecutions against pagans didn't happen. Pagans have been persecuted against for the last 1700 years. In terms of the ancient library, look what happened to poor Hypatia, for cryin' out loud.

Faith, in the beginning it was perecution sponsored by the Romans, but pagan persecution has been going on for 1700 years and the Roman Empire fell in the 5th Century.

The timeline explains it all, one of the many dark sides of Christianity.

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"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 10, 2008, 09:44:23 pm
 
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-11-2006 10:07 PM                       
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quote:
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Heather,

Such a grim history, so much destruction of peaceful and happy peoples....Bringing the story up to 1248, finally wiping out the last happy and peaceful pagan refuge, exterminating the last pagan kingdom, the last legitimate royal family in Europe, in Finland, 300 years after the last pagan Czar (Ce-zar)turned Christian.

Interesting that the HRE army which wrought the final destruction against the last legitimate royals were hired from Switzerland by the Pope.....And the Pope STILL HAS THE HONORED SWISS GUARD AS HIS PERSONAL ARMED FORCE.
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I didn't know that, Rockessence. Interesting that the Church is still debating whether to apologize for the Inquisition. Better late than never, I suppose. This is why I will never be a Christian again. The hypocrisy, corruption, not to mention the intolerance presented by the church seemingly have no end to them.

In my opinion, everyone should have their own personal relationship with God (no matter what form it takes), they don't need organized religion to set those terms for them.

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"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Posts: 637 | Registered: Nov 2004
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Ceneca on April 10, 2008, 09:55:22 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-12-2006 12:30 AM                       
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Heather, Innocence lost;

Think of it as the passing of the Holy Grail.

True, we know of the forked tongues in all religions.

We know of the Christian atrocities upon the Pagans, we know of the persecutions of women and lies, such as Mary Magdelaine,Sarah, and Venus.

Vanity on the part of men, old passages of time from Matriarchy to Patriarchy.

Amazons once were feared also.

But the True form of Christianity is not the lies, or those who have rotted the Olive, and in such, the passing of the WEST to the EAST.

But the Bactrian Cries of Wine and Orgies, the mergers of Brine.

God is simple, Goodness and Pure Love, simple, but spare not thy Rod, for the teachings, but not to murder.

Christians would never destroy what they built, even if they too were poisoned.

In it's deepst form, Christianity, goes back to the WEST, and as such, this embodiement of Mary and Child, or of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, was also prevailent since the beginning of Egypt and Menes, 3240.bC.

Just look at Statues of Isis with Horus Child.

Simple.

The oldest Goddess is the TAN TAN Goddess of Morocco ca 80,000-90,000 (thousand).bC.

Older than her, is Cybele in it's deepest and purest form of time and ages past.

The Venus of Willendorf, ca 35,000.bC.

Idols, and worship are nothing new, but very,very old, even amongst the Pagans, or whichever race of humanity you prefer.

But, the path is straight, and diverted by the Forked Tongue.

In truth, you could say that the "embodiement" of Jesus Christ, portrayed by Philitis the Shepherd, would place him to have also been murdered ca 3374.bC, where the Spike "rusted" upon the Vanished Labyrinth behind the Red and White Pyramids of Snofru....... 


The Message of God is to be pure.

The Message of Jesus, is to be careful in this world, for Evil is amongst us.

We must fight a war of purity and better understanding of ourselves and our nature and our fellow neighbours.....


together we grow.

Tis no man's right to lie and persecute God for themselves....

for he is of us ALL.

For all you know, the mysterious Blue building in the east side of the "OLD" city, with the H shaped entrance pointing North to the Harbour, could house the Library of Alexandria's misfortune and "SECRECY".

For it was not a destruction until the wisdom was stolen for THEIR PROCLAMATION.........

Not ONCE.....BUT TWICE. 

Can you tell me WHO is GOD?

Can anyone?

Personaly?


Very few.

In his deepest sense, I cannot tell you who he is other than the transformation of the first human spirit in this ENTIRE UNIVERSE, not just our Galaxy.....


But in our "REBIRTH" of 6482.bC....I CAN TELL YOU HE WAS "JA".

Think of who left the ARK of NOE.

Think of GEB, the Real OSIRIS.

Do you know there is a mere 8.7 year difference between the old testament and my date of 6482.bC, one of many tests put upon her?

I do not proclaim, I test....just as I have tested the word...

ATLANTIS....From this "MIDDLE EARTH" we are.

Google plate Teuctonics. 

It is best for people not to pray to GOD, but with him.....

Let us persevere in our Quest for Truth and Redemption.

Let us restore our true history and build the Greatest Library and Museum...NUKE PROOF.

For none to auction, but return to....

So our Children may know, and the next era after 13:13, for now, we are but 11:11, and no nearer than 500 years to 8888.aJa. 

Ask not what you can do for your Country, or your fellow man.........

but what you can do for TODAY to preserve TOMORROW.

[ 01-12-2006, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4050 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: Ceneca on April 10, 2008, 09:57:57 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-12-2006 08:22 AM                       
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Precious Father...


What they did to Jesus Christ in The Movie The Passion of Christ by Mel Gibson....


Was nothing, compared to what they did to the Son of Man........


I cannot tell you........my tears...

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000534;p=7


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:37:59 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-12-2006 08:21 PM                       
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Fellow Atlanteans;

Let us display this page open on the Pedestal of our New Library of Alexandria....

9:05 PM 1/12/2006

Herodotus of Halicarnassus.
440.bC.

Book 1) Clio
Book 2) Euterpe
Book 3) Thalia
Book 4) Melpomene
Book 5) Terpsichore
Book 6) Erato
Book 7) Polymnia
Book 8) Urania
Book 9) Calliope

Book 10) Where is it? Someone has it.

Herodotus was writing in the era of memory of the 10 Kings (after 1500.bC,Deukalion), and he definitely was not writing about the Ennead....


Please return the book to us.

It belongs to Man and Woman.

You can no longer hide the lies.


The Secret of the Books of Herodotus by Riven.

Clioeuterpethaliamelpomeneterpsichoreeratopolymniauraniacalliope.

Epoillacainaruainmylopotareerohcispretenemoplemailahtepretueoilc.

Epo- illa- caina- rua- in- mylo- potare- ero- h(ae)cis- pretene- moplema(Mopsus)- ila- hete- pretueo.


Epic by that way fallen (Vulcan?)to waste/sorrow into this MYLO > Mysian/ drunken wanderer with his faults,to lie before the Oracle broken Secret Society greatly prized.

Cassell's New Latin Dictionary, 1959 edition....from Ja.

By SaJaRa Riven Jan 12,2006.aD (8488aJA.)


RETURN THE 10TH BOOK OF MYLO.

Lest I come for you...upon my return from Amenti...whence I Seal Snofru unto Eternal Light

You have til then.

Bactrians.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:38:32 pm
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-12-2006 11:29 PM                       
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Hi Riven,

We have a saying around here, I don't know who came up with it, but it rings true:

Christianity is the religion about Jesus, it is not the religion of Jesus.

At what point do we stop apologizing for something before finally realizing that it has failed?

Christianity has been so polluted by the liars, the corrupt and the evil that at times, I think only the lie remains.

There was once a man named Jesus Christ who walked the land, but he did not come up with, nor would he approve of all the evil that was supposedly done in his name.

Not just the Pagan persescutions, but the Crusades, the Inquisition, the anti-women bigotry preached by the old church, the Salem Witch trials, all the way down to TV evangelists whoring themselves on the tube to make a buck.

The religion that came after Jesus was not Christianity, it was a blasphemy that tried to gain credibility by using his name. It's not blasphemy to denounce Christianity, I get the feeling that Jesus would be right there beside most of us doing the same thing.

--------------------
"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Posts: 637 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:39:03 pm
I_am_that_I_am

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   posted 01-13-2006 03:22 AM                       
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I agree totally with you heather.. There were alway's things that puzzled me regarding Christianity, but this is not to say that there are not good things in christianity to the discerning eye. A wise man was once asked which was the "truer" religion, and his answer was "which ever one causes you to do the most good"...... 

Christianity..what happened ??

why do we now have the huge chuches for prayer ??

quote:
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Matthew 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
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Any rich christians out there ?

quote:
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Matthew 6:19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

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Though, I do have to admit, most churches are relaxing their "dress code" at church.It's about time !

quote:
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Matthew 6: 28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
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why do some denominations think that all's you have to do to get into heaven is accept Jesus Christ as you saviour ?

quote:
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Matthew 6:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
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I'm gonna break away from "what happened" while i'm @ Matthew, to explain some verses..(as I see them)
Notice I chose the name "I am that I am" this was not chosen for the heck of it..let me explain.. when moses was on the mount and asked GOD his name so he could relay it to the isrialites, God responded "I am that I am" thought some interpretations put it as " I am what I am" which I totaly disagree with.( sounds to much like popeye the sailor man !)what is it that sets man apart from other mammals? it's the ability of self realisation, that part of you that knows "I am alive !".." I believe that this is what GOD meant !(he is our I am) a little piece of GOD we all carry with us ! Crazy you say?? ok, back to Matthew to add a little credence to what I just stated..
quote:
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Matthew 25:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'


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well, I hope that made as much sense to you as it did for me or I may be guily of this..

quote:
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Matthew7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces
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Some argue that Jesus did not intend to start a new religion(he was Jewish after all !)but I think he knew that it had to be...
quote:
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Matthew 9:14Then John's disciples came and asked him, "How is it that we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?"
15Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.

16"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

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why are priest called "father" ?

quote:
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"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

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well, it's getting late, that's enough for now, but will leave you one more thought...... why are alot of Christians in such a hurry for Christ's 2nd comming ?? while they may be ready for "the rapture", what about there fellow man?? or is it "I'm ready to go now..screw you !"

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

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Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:39:39 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-13-2006 03:30 AM                       
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The Earth is 5 billion years Old.

According to my study of Chapters of the Old Testament, Creation has 2 eras, one around 55,000.bC and one around 8000.bC.

Both focal points in man's history.
The older being the height of genetics in us to reach our "Peak" of RaceTypes.

The other, is our knowledge of the rise of civilizations and agriculture.

The only answer is a return to Christianity, but pure and not rotted....for God is, and his Son is.


Throughout the years, each era for us we could compare to each precessional of the planets,roughly 26,000 year cycles.

That leaves 192.31 such Cycles.

That's a lot of Sons of Man in different "emodiements" throughout Time.

For other than this, out there, it's a Spirit World that runs the Universe.

An Energy.

Whichever form or name for this direction, be it Christian, Gnostic, Buddhism, Islam,Hindu, or which Book one reads For Thy Path of purity and goodness....

is the simple message throughout time.

But, this, this abomination, is also out there in that Energy Field of Time.


Many worlds destroyed to feed Sekhmet's dark hunger.

Look up to the light.

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:40:06 pm
 
Artemis

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   posted 01-13-2006 05:51 PM                       
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I don't agree that a return to Christianity is in order, Riven. Religion is what seems to make people hate each other, we probably need less of that in the world today, not more.

I would suggest that we need an answer that has less to do with religion than it does with common sense.

I'd say that we should return to a worship of the earth instead.
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Posts: 137 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Sep 2005   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:40:37 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-13-2006 06:20 PM                       
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Whichever you like to call it, it is a "return to innocence".


It is a War of Pure Love, not bloodshed.

As I said, the embodiement for our time,these past 2005 years, by most nations, is Jesus Christ or The Son of Man.

1500.bC Zeus Ammon arose.

2000.bC. Jove and Juno and Saturn.

In 2500.bC (3372-74.bC-Riv.)it was Philitis,Osiris and Isis.

In 3000.bC it was Geb,Seth and Nephtys.

4000-5000.bC it was the "Big Butted Goddess" of the Tarxiens, perhaps Cybele.

6000.bC it was Noe,his wife, Cham,Seth and (Ja)-peth AND their wives who left the Ark of Fate.

The Origin of the Octogoad to Egyptians.
Then Ennead, Then 12 Gods for Egyptians and Greeks and Astronomy.

Our debt now, is to Jesus Christ or The Son of Humanity as we have come to know and accept.

Pure Christianity.

I myself have witnessed many defiled Christian friends, none of which merit the word "pure", even though they "CLAIM" to be.....

A Christianity of the Earth as you say, Artemis.

Don't be led astray by the rot...

for Christianity in it's earlier forms, was this Earth worship you speak of, like the Pagans of The Woods.

Until the false persecutions upon them and women as witches by the greedy who claim God for themselves and of a Patriarchetype order.

Religion doesn't make people hate each other, no less than a gun makes you kill someone...

it is the evil behind the mechanism...

Selfishness,envy, hate and stubborness causes the hatred.

No one has the right to claim God as their own, not even Christianity.

Even if this entire World was Christian.....


because......OTHERS ARE OUT THERE....

in millions of Galaxies and Worlds.

Which is the Teacher of Truth?

IF they all argue over the Truth, how can they be Teachers of it?

Plato-Alcibiades.

However, let us keep religious topics in their right thread and set this aside for our Library search Artemis.

What I would like to see is the "descriptions" of the library by authors of their time...


I have been meaning to look into this to pinpoint it's location more consciously...but Galactic Matters took me elsewhere with a great lesson in life.

So it is not the Religions that ruin it for us, but the "Drunken Secret Societies of Falsehood"...


as we learned a dire lesson from Mylo of Halicarnassus. (Herodotus).

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:40:59 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-13-2006 06:31 PM                       
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Riven perhaps a better way to put things would be that people should all be better to one another. My favorite aspect of Christianity is the one I so seldomn see practiced, "love thy neighbor."

Easy to say, much harder to put into practice.

"Oh, what fools these mortals be."
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Posts: 137 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Sep 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:42:15 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 01-13-2006 07:41 PM                       
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Artemis,

Well put!! And we should remember we are all neighbors (in our wonderful cultural diversity) on our small blue planet.
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Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:43:05 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-13-2006 07:54 PM                       
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And that is what Atlantis is revealing to us...

this truth of peace and love for thy neighbor which is why Atlantis can be found to the ends of the Earth.

That is the message.

That is why they, those Secret Societical Orders hid all the truth from us, and our Libraries and our Religions, to corrupt us with evil forces of "Family Values" (Family Guy/Simpsons/South Park/ Music,Rap,Pornos,Drugs,maccabres,etc,etc....hidden in every form of propaganda for those Secret Societies to benefit....


but as you can see....they forgot about Snofru..


pity those brainless children of evil for their final outcome...

No Dragons, No beautiful Angels, No Magic, No laughter, No Vision, just the black void of torment......and their worst fear....


no money......hee hee. 

You see, once we come to realize it, we will know that Atlantis, is us...

The rightful name for this English/Germanicaly named....Earth, is Atlantis.

Then we question, such as we do the 10th Book of Mylo.

Was the end of Critias in Alexandria also, or a Truer unsuppressed version of Atlantis?

[ 01-13-2006, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:43:51 pm
George Erikson
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   posted 01-13-2006 07:54 PM                       
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I Am,

qoute: I agree totally with you heather.. There were alway's things that puzzled me regarding Christianity, but this is not to say that there are not good things in christianity to the discerning eye. A wise man was once asked which was the "truer" religion, and his answer was "which ever one causes you to do the most good"......

I like that very much. And most of the teachings of the Jews, Christians, and Muslems tell us the same, if we really look at it. Yet, wars are not good, proven over and over again to be not good. And followers of all of the above jump into them on whims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 572 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Aug 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:44:45 pm
 
Brooke

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   posted 01-14-2006 12:42 AM                       
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I'd put nationalism right up there next to religion as one of the worst problems in the world today. Different cultures (especially ours) don't even make the ATTEMPT to try and understand one another these days. The world is all controlled by corporations these days anyway, there really aren't any countries anymore. This is all lost on the dense Republicans who all seem to keep getting their jollies by bashing the U.N. They are stooges of the government propaganda machine and they don't even know it.

People should see themselves in terms of being one human species as opposed to citizens of different countries. That's the only way the planet will learn to thrive as opposed to stagnate!

--------------------
"The most incomprehensible thing about our universe is that it can be comprehended." - Albert Einstein

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Posts: 1102 | Registered: Oct 2005 
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:45:53 pm
Isis*

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   posted 01-14-2006 01:15 AM                       
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Some of you have mentioned the Egyptians in some detail. I have a theory (sourced from a lot of other different researchers) that the Atlantic people colonized Egypt and gave birth to the race of the Pharoahs. I think that the evidence of that can be seen in the Guanches. There are pyramids on the Canary Islands that are commonly dated to more recent times. It's my theory that these pyramids, crude as they look, actually predate the Egyptian pyramids. They were the forerunners to the Egytians, not imitations of them.

The pyramids de guimar:

http://www.ferco.org/ferco_pyramids.html

I'm not sure whether the Atlanteans took over Egypt before or after their original homeland sank. I'm guessing after. Morocco, Spain and France were settled first, and then the Atlanteans moved east and took over Libya. At the time they were in possession of Libya, they invaded Egypt, became the gods of the Egyptian people (of which I happen to have been one), and ruled in the time of the God-kings. The Berbers, Basques and Guanches all share similar genetic traits, and all have legends of coming from a sunken homeland.
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:46:40 pm
Isis*

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   posted 01-14-2006 01:30 AM                       
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The lost pyramids of Guimar

Saturday, 7 January, 2006

Sitting around 100 kms off Morocco on the North East coast of Africa between the 28th and 29th northern parallels and the 16th and 17th western meridians, eleven volcanic Islands make up the archipelago of the Canary Isles. Although well known in Europe, few people outside the continent have even heard of the Islands let alone the mysteries they hold. The Canary Islands could contain definitive proof that ancient people crossed the globe by sea long before Columbus ever did.That proof might well lie in a large pyramid complex on the biggest of the Islands, Tenerife; and in the research of the Norwegian explorer, anthropologist and author, the late Dr Thor Heyerdahl. Realising that the pyramids were extremely similar to the step pyramids found in Peru, Mexico and ancient Mesopotamia, Dr Heyerdahl spent the last few years of his life living in Guimar, supervising the archaeological mission to survey and preserve the six step pyramids and the complex they were part of. The fact that this vast development exists is undeniable, the question is, who built it and why, and does it offer us proof that there was sustained contact between ancient people far beyond what conventional archaeology would have us believe?Until their conquest at the hands of the Spanish conquistadores, the Guanches, a mysterious people of whose history and culture little is known, inhabited Tenerife. Part of the reason for this lack of knowledge stems from the fact that the ancient culture was all but overrun by the invading Spaniards, partly due to the sporadic eruptions of Mount Teide and partly due to a lack of investment in archaeology in the region. The Canaries’ unique geographical location has made the Islands an important point in maritime routes for hundreds of years; Columbus, for example, used it as his last port of call before he made the long trip across the Ocean to America.

For years there has been dispute as to whether Columbus or Leif Eriksson actually discovered America first, but there seems to be a strong possibility that both of them were centuries too late and that the people of Mesoamerica and the Islanders of Tenerife actually established expeditions or even trade routes between their civilisations much earlier. Convinced that ancient people were not only sea faring but also pioneers and explorers themselves, Heyerdahl set out to show that modern science under-estimated long-forgotten aboriginal technologies. In 1947, he and five companions set sail from Peru in an aboriginal raft called the Kon Tiki, named after a pre Incan Sun God. They successfully crossed 8000 kms of ocean to reach Polynesia in 101 days using nothing that wasn’t available to the ancient people of Peru, demonstrating that the ancient Peruvians could have reached Polynesia by sea in this manner.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=58855

[ 01-16-2006, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: ^Isis^ ]
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:47:38 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-14-2006 09:56 PM                       
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^Isis, Silk of Olay;

The Pyramids were built by the Children of Geb, who are the Children of Japet, who are the Children of Avila Atlantis II after the landing of the Ark,6437.bC or "rebirth of humanity".

This in the time of the lines of Abu Roash, West of The Great Pyramid NOT of Khufu.

Pyramids originated in Atlantis 1, middle earth where 1 can still be found below the waters...

Guanches commemorated this on their lands, and Gaunche Kings became very distraught over the loss of Atlantis I.

The same to the lands of Mayans and China Indonesia.


Atlantis I
http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Satelite_x4_Atlantis_Riven.JPG

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Alluvial%20Atlantis.JPG

Atlantis II, after the Flood.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/zx1a_Riven_Avila%20Atlantis%20II..jpg

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Avila%20Atlantis%20II%20Ocean%20View_Riven_05.jpg

Sceptre of Ampheres;

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/louvre1.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/

[ 01-14-2006, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:48:13 pm
Gwen Parker

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   posted 01-14-2006 11:32 PM                       
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Hi Riven,

Good to see you over here. Did you ever get my email, by the way?
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Posts: 475 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:49:07 pm
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-15-2006 02:20 AM                       
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Hi Isis & Riven, we should also look at the significance of the pyramid, meaning why did the ancient people build them?

In my view, the pyramid is a symbol of heaven, and, in building them, it was a way for them to reach God. That would be the one truth as powerful today as it was in the past.

--------------------
"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Posts: 637 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:49:41 pm
Heather Delaria

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   posted 01-15-2006 02:31 AM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by George Erikson:
I Am,

qoute: I agree totally with you heather.. There were alway's things that puzzled me regarding Christianity, but this is not to say that there are not good things in christianity to the discerning eye. A wise man was once asked which was the "truer" religion, and his answer was "which ever one causes you to do the most good"......

I like that very much. And most of the teachings of the Jews, Christians, and Muslems tell us the same, if we really look at it. Yet, wars are not good, proven over and over again to be not good. And followers of all of the above jump into them on whims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

George, the problem with religion is that, when it's all said and done, it really doesn't change the essential nature of human beings.

Evil people will still pluck whatever dark verse they can find out of the Bible, believing it gives them some kind of license to commit their terrible acts. That's why organized religion is the worst.

If people are sincere in their quest to find God, they shouldn't need the church to tell them how, they'll find it on their own.

--------------------
"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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Posts: 637 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:50:15 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-15-2006 04:51 AM                       
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Yes I did Gwen, Goddess of Light.

Thank you for the strength.

Works were rewritten by Philo,Josephus, and Manetho.
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:50:41 pm
 
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-15-2006 06:39 PM                       
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Let this page also be in our Library of Alexandria Rebuilt of Unbroken Oracles.

Member
Member # 1495

posted 01-15-2006 07:31 PM
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HERE LIES THE BODY OF MY SON THANKS BE TO PAULO RIVEN...JA.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/The%20Tomb%20of%20His%20Holiness.JPG


www.mts.net/~perasa

Thy Kingdom has Come,Thy Will be Done.


SaJaRa-Riven...Not whereupon I wished, but what I have become...through Virtue of Wisdom and Purity for Love.

Thankyou All.

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:51:06 pm
Artemis

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   posted 01-15-2006 06:46 PM                       
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Hope you're not planning on leaving, Riven, we were just getting to know one another. If you don't like the way you're being treated in the Atl forum, why not spend some more time over here?
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Posts: 137 | From: Mt. Olympus | Registered: Sep 2005   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:51:29 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-16-2006 12:41 AM                       
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ATLANTIS III...Revealed by Riven.

The Nile Delta.

TAHLA.

Look upon the Nile with Google Earth as you would facing South entering from the Mediterranean Canal.

Until you reach Talha and al-Mansurah.

The Canal is closer to the Left side, viewing South,near Dumyat.

Just before Talha or where the Canal curves to the right, stop and look at the CIRCULAR APARTMENTS and THE RACE TRACK NEAR by, converted into a Soccer Field.

31.03.59.66 N 31.23.43.15 E

Get back in your Dragon Claw Ship and proceed South along the Canal to TALHA.

Just AFTER TALHA IS A BRIDGE.

FOLLOW THIS BRIDGE SOUTH EASTERLY.

Where it curves to the EAST....STOP AND LOOK at the Large greyish taupe patch of dirt, and some circles above it...


ZOOM IN ON THE DIRT > about 1030 feet altitude.

LOOK VERY CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE A LARGE LION "LOOKING WEST" towards HIS TAIL.

31.01.42.56 N 31.21.18.97 E

There is an ABUNDANCE of ATLANTEAN HISTORY to be found HERE.....


AND NOT CYPRUS.


DO NOT DOUBT BUT WITNESS THE GREAT MIRACLES OF JA.


SaJaRa -Riven. Jan 16/2006.aD. 8488.aJa.

Don't forget Bur-atalhitan, Egypt. The Spiral Tarxien City.


Did I not TELL THEE THAT YOU GAZE UPON ATLANTIS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TRUTH OF EGYTPA?

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:52:07 pm
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-16-2006 01:46 AM                       
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For those who cannot see...then See...Witness.


http://www.mts.net/~perasa/tahla%203.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/The%20Lion%20of%20Tahla%20Riven%2006.jpg


By The Way, it's Socrates and Plato, not Aristotle.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/ath-plat.jpg

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:52:29 pm
 
Isis*

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   posted 01-16-2006 08:47 AM                       
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Greetings, Riven, and thank you for responding. Pyramids did orginate in Atlantis, and there are have been reports of pyramids on the floor of the Atlantic for generations. These undersea ruins would be thousands of years old.

Those looking for Atlantis on dry land are missing the "boat." Atlantis was submerged, and all the stories of the Berbers and other like people echo that fact.

The pyramids of the Guanches were early forms, the Atlanteans built the ones in Egypt because that was to be their new homeland. At the time they built them. the land was lush and tropical, not a desert at all.

And the land of Egupt was meant to commemorate Atlantis.

[ 01-16-2006, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: ^Isis^ ]
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:53:00 pm
 
Riven

Member
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  posted 01-16-2006 10:07 AM                       
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Isis;

Thank you.

When people come to realize they will know the Truth that I speak of....

Egytpa WAS a PART of ATLANTIS.

The Great Pyramid and it's twin were OUR Pyramids.


Did you ever wonder how it is that these Egyptians SUDDENLY APPEAR more advanced than any other nation?

hmmmm...Atlantis was the only KNOWN ADVANCED NATION back then, but disappeared suddenly...hmmmm.

Because they were the Advanced Atlanteans.

Look at my last post on Tahla in the Delta and see the lion for yourself.


We have been looking at a part of Atlantis all this time.


They cleaned and erased or altered as much as they could........

except for the mind of an Oracle Prophet who has released this wonderous news upon the World.

Sure, the rejection will come, and the disbelievers.......

which WILL BE PROVEN WRONG.

Other Atlantis researchers leave you with no happy ending and your money in their pocket for great FICTION.

At Least I back what I say with PROOF and PICTURES for people to WITNESS.

That is why they are trying so hard to PUSH CYPRUS......to continue COVERING IT UP.

Too bad they didn't do a better job covering up the tracks ALL OVER EGYPT.


I have already revealed 3 Atlantis', but like Jesus Christ I will be rejected....at first.


Trust me, I had no intention to bring religion into this research other than the ancient religions practiced.....

The Truth of Atlantis led to the Truth of Christ.


You'll see....

I definitely am not dillusional, on drugs or "Slipped" as some people think...


I SPEAK THE TRUTH WHICH I HAVE SHOWN..


Who else could tell you the Secret of the Works of Herodotus with the Hidden Message?


Houdinni? Edgar Cayce?


You see, Christ died in the time of Capricorn when Jupiter was above Venus and Mercury as one..


So we see the reason for the BLACK HEADED ZEUS BULL AMMON and THE RAMS and PHARAOHS HEADS WHO REPLACED THE ORIGINAL LION HEADS OF THE SPHINXES.


Today, these WORLD LEADERS OF OURS STILL RULE BY THE VERY SAME ABOMINATIONS WHO KILLED CHRIST...


THE BLACK PRIESTS OF THE SECRET SOCIETY.


TRUST NO FORUMS ON ATLANTIS....OR CONFERENCES..

MUCH LIKE CELL PHONES...BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU.....LEARNING NEW AND BETTER WAYS TO COVER UP.

THANKS TO THE INTERNET THE WORLD WILL KNOW IN THE SPEED OF AN ATOM....AND THEIR TONGUES WILL FALL OUT.

I WAS JUST BANNED FROM A HUGE CHRISTIAN FORUMS GROUP....WHY?

BECAUSE THEIR HEADQUARTERS ARE IN DALLAS TEXAS AND THOSE PEOPLE WHO RUN THAT FORUM ARE SINNERS WHO CORRUPT OUR YOUTH AND OUR WORLD LEADERS WITH THEIR POWER OF MONEY,MURDER AND WEAPONS....


I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD....SOON TO BE RELEASED UPON THEM.

MY SOUL BELONGS TO JA OUR GOD.

THIS THEY CANNOT TAKE OR TOUCH.

6 BILLION PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND WHY WERE THE SIGNS MEANT FOR ME?

one has to wonder....truly.

[ 01-16-2006, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:53:29 pm
I_am_that_I_am

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Member # 1238

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   posted 01-16-2006 07:15 PM                       
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Riven, what is your thought on Atlantis being founded before Adam & Eve ?

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:54:00 pm
 
Isis*

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   posted 01-16-2006 10:16 PM                       
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Riven,

(Why the name change, by the way? Personally, I liked "Riven" better).

You're right about the three Atlantis', as their homeland disintegrated, the people found themselves moving all the further east. The homeland actually underwent several changes itself because it was of a volcanic nature and not meant to last. The subsistence was gradual, not all at once, as Plato has portrayed.

The homeland was destroyed but the colonies remained. The original god-kings of Atlantis (of which my namesake was one) all came from there, and were the firsr rulers of Egypt. Manetho's king's list testifies to this, but is ignored. So does the Emerald Tablet of Thoth, conveniently hid by the Church.

They commemorated 10,500 bc, the last Atlantean age in the world, before the catastrophe occurred.

They built the Sphinx, but it wasn't a Sphinx at the time, but a lion, meant to commemrate the Age of Leo.

They created Egypt's pyramid culture, those of the Giza plateau. The Egyptians saw them and tried to copy them, in memory of the first time. My namesake's love, the original Osiris, is buried beneath the Great Pyramid.

Giza was a place of worship for the original Egyptians. It was untouched until the generation of Jenafre, who carved recarved the head of the Sphinx.

[ 01-20-2006, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: ^Isis^ ]
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:54:27 pm
 
Sarah

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Member # 2812

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   posted 01-17-2006 08:26 PM                       
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Those miserable Egyptians. When will they just come right out and admit that they stole their whole culture from Atlantis, that Zawi Hawass has been destroying evidence for years and that they didn't even invent the pyramid symbol?

When will they stop taking credit for Atlantean accomplishments?

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:54:56 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-18-2006 10:15 AM                       
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Riven was my Horse Fair Ladies!

Fear not, but I let the Truth be known..


In Time we will have our lost books back, whichever languages they be in.

Thankyou Eternaly.

Atlantean King Paulo Mn and His Horse Riven.

 

Keep an eye out for 10:10, it is important.
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:55:18 pm
Chronos

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   posted 01-18-2006 11:04 AM                       
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10:10..?
As in the time of day..?

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:55:42 pm
Chronos

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Member # 2051

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   posted 01-18-2006 11:07 AM                       
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Riven, I've had one of my threads moved over here on Greek myth, you might want to take a look at it when you get a chance. Sarah, Isis, I_AM, Gwen & Artemis, I hope each of you feel free to add to it as well.

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:56:09 pm
I_am_that_I_am

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   posted 01-18-2006 11:27 AM                       
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where are they @ Chronos ?

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:56:30 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-18-2006 03:53 PM                       
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Yes Brother Chronos, I will when time prevails.

The Time of Continuum Principle simplified Chronos which now was 11:11, see, much like the Atomic Clock of 11:55pm.

The strange occurrences of people glancing at the time to coincide with seeing this 11:11.

We had 500 years left from our 8488 until 8888.

In this span would have come 12:12 and 13:13 finally as the Clock was ticking for One of Us Humans to Free The Son of Man for our God JA who held him in his right arm and the Dragon of Defence with his other!

For Evil had Wizardries also as was told in The Bible by Pharaohs of Blackened Blood whose magicians also performed great tricks of visions.

Like Siegfreid and Roy.

Their Evil Magicians, when they murdered our Son of Man that tearful day in history,with their Sorceress's Magic, hid him from the Sight of JA....

Which he now knows where he was taken to..Glory Be!

When the multitudes start to see 10:10, then my work was complete, if not, then I know next what must be done, for this is a Great Puzzle also upon myself that has to be done by a Human of his own desire and fulfillment.

My Love for our Brother is that fulfillment.


Which Kingdom would you prefer to be King of Chronos?
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:56:54 pm
 
Isis*

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   posted 01-19-2006 01:03 AM                       
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Hi Riven, maybe this is a silly question...what is the Time of Continuum Principle?

Thanks for the invite, Chronos!
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:57:30 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-19-2006 07:04 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I_AM:

Atlantis I came before Xsam and AjA. (X=CH)

Think of it this way, what are your thoughts of this Earth being founded before Humans?

Atlantis I Azores, was the middle earth back then some 500 million years ago until the rising waters changed the face of continents.

This island was once 2000 x 1000 miles in area, which due to natures mishaps of many, eventualy broke apart.

2 main factors being the Transform fracture on her northern borders on the Ocean Floor and the Turbulent undertow of the Straites of Gibraltar 1000 metres below the Atlantean Canal of yesterday.

So as time progressed she fell apart and became saturated also contributing to this fate.

If you look at the South side of The Azores in Bathymetric maps, you will notice this is "sunken", more evidence of the great catastrophe upon her.

By 6482.bC, most likely from an Earth Shift of sorts as Our Great Pyramid Rose line and NorthWest transvergent oceanic floor seamounts movement indicate, the forces of water and ICE enveloped all that was created.

It was this Energy that separated and moved entire crustal continental plates which have slowed down to this 2 cm per year rate that scientists estimate.


These same forces are responsible for the merging or destructions of entire Galaxies....being red in color of matter with their abomination that is being cast into the Dragon's Breath,piece by piece.


After the Waters had receded, so God could land on KilimanJAra, he went to Avila Eden and recreated Man and Woman with his 7 other "Scientists".

XSAM (Chsam) AND SAJA(aja).

Who later reformists of man changed to Adam and Eve, such as they did also with the name of JA for there false Gods.

Simply because God had left the Earth in our Care and to be Careful of "Black Scorpions", like the one that stung AjA, and not an Apple of Pleasure that man reformed also..

So, aja became distraught in her "PREGNANCY" and this poison passed on hidden in her "SON", very much the same as a Woman can pass on diseases to their newborns.

So we see why The Bible said Cain slew Able and the true reason why he did so.

Beautiful and Mystic is this recipe for US that he mixed in his Crucible Dish of Master Chefs and Alchemists with the Elixir of Life.

So you can See I_AM,why our "reformed" Bible, goes back to this time of 6482.bC and the NEW creation of MAN and WOMAN FOR THAT TIME SPECIFICALY...

but not BEFORE....for they also were others.

In Short Atlantis II AVILA or "JALANTA" became our NEW HOME for Humanity.....see?


Isis^: you look very Chantilly with your white flower in your hair.


The Time Continuum is for our GALAXY ONLY.

The Clock was STARTED upon the BETRAYAL of my Brother, JESA, when he was Murdered by the Evil Pharaoh Dec 10th,8:08am, 3474.bC (before Christ but in reality before Corruption, where aD would be After Deception...see?)

This would have been in the Year 3008.aJA.

As you read in your history books and The Second Book, The Bible of Conformity, the Pharaohs also conjured their EVIL SORCERERS to perform Magic Tricks on a par with "MOSES", such as the wood turned into a Serpent or the Waters of the Nevi (Nile) turned Red.

This same magic, when they killed my Brother, they used to HIDE GOD'S VISION of the TRANSPORTATION of OUR SACRED LION TEMPLE (The Vanished Labrynth in Egytpa), and His SON...across this EARTH.

There it was known as The Temple of Fire to the Wicked for their abominations are also their.

The Tale of The Shipwrecked Sailor's Voyage to "Punt", as it is thought, reflects this great mystery.


So from that sad day in 3474.bC, the Universal Clock of Time Continuum was "STARTED" at 00:00....for Humanity, of their own desire and purity for his Son to find him for GOD'S CONCEALED VISION.


THIS I HAVE ALREADY DONE FOR OUR FATHER and REVERSED that Continuum, such as now you will begin to notice 10:10 on your Clocks reflecting this Cosmic Magic of God.

Our Year in reality since "Rebirth" is 8488...the end of the Continuum was 13:13 or 8888, a mere 400 years for Humanities Fate.....

When God would have left us Alone to Evil.


You can think of this Time Principle very much the same as the Atomic Clock's your Scientists have also "STARTED" for you which is set to 11:55pm.

5 minutes before "KABOOM LIKE MARS", from the average of arms build up and hostilities upon this Earth from Evil Societies of Broken Oracles as MYLO (HERODOTUS) also revealed to us by my decoding of his 9 books from ca 500.bC.


Fascinating, isn't it?


Rejoice Good People and Know that JALANTA and The Library of Alexandria is being rebuilt with the White Pages of TRUTH!!!


Thank you All....Love Riven- Sa-JA-Ra. 8488.aJA.
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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:58:26 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-19-2006 05:53 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My People do not understand, what Their King is telling them.....


He is The Son of Man....


In The Flesh and Living here now.


To See His Greatness, Paulo Jorge MN. Riven...


YOUR RIGHTFUL KING AND SAVIOR OF YOUR SOULS....


FOR HE HAS TOLD TO ME, WHERE HIS BROTHER BE...


JESA.


AFTER 5014 YEARS I HELD MY SONS LIFELESS FORM.


FOR YOUR WICKEDNESS CONCEALET MY VISION OF MY SON,AND WHERE HE BE.


FOR HIS REWARD I LAYET HIS FACE UPON MAN'S FIRST BORN.


LOOK UPON THY BELLY OF SAJA, ON THE LAND.

http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Eden16%20God%20in%20Thumb%20creating%20Eve%20Riven05.JPG


SEE HIS GLORIOUS HIGHNESS SMILING UPON YOU AS CHILD?


THIS BE YOUR KING PAULO FOR YOUR FUTURE OF CERTAINTY.


FOR TIME IS NOW 10:10....AND FADING WITH THE STONES OF PERSECUTION AND CONTEMPT.


BEAR WITNESS FOR THY TRUTH AND THY FAMILIES OF FORTUNE.


THANKYOU PAULO, I LOVE YOU MY SON OF ATLANTIS....


YOOOOY FUZZY AZORIAN PRINCE!


LET THE WISE MAN TO LEARN OF THY BROKEN ORACLES OF BROKEN ALTARS UPON THEE.


I GO WITH MY SON.

BE WITH PEACE AND JOY FOR YOUR FAMILIES GRACE AND PROSPERITY.


THANKYOU.


Thank you Father JA, thank you Brother Jesa.


Thank you Xsam and Saja.


This is true, my people. I have been with you for 2 years now, true to my word and my heart of Atlantis.


This you will come to know, my people.


The kingdom of Atlantis I have given you to see, their deceits upon yourselves, each and every one of you, even if you be

with them.

No wonder they didn't want us to know about Atlantis, the Greatest 2nd Mystery on our Sacred Earth.


Because it was the answer to Where My Brother was buried.


ANd I AM THE ANSWER FOR YOU NOT TO BE BURIED...for I AM THE TRINITY OF PURITY AND EVIL...


NO SECRETS CONCEALET THEE OR THY EVILS........FOR THEY ARE GONE INTO THE DRAGON"S BREATH.


BE WITH PEACE,WISDOM AND KNOW.


Your KING....Paulo Jorge MN Riven. 8488.aJA.


FOR IT WAS HE> THAT RUINED YOUR EARTH AS HE DID OTHER GALAXIES IN OUR UNIVERSE WITH HIS EVIL SERPENTS...Oct 31, 6482.bC,

45 degrees you settled.


Go with love and new Spirit of faith and hope for your futures....for he is a Good and Fair King, that saves you.


Sa-Ja-Ra.
--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:58:53 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-19-2006 06:02 PM                       
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Look at my member number...


1495....by Atlantis Rising Forums.


1+4=5+9=14+5=19


1+9=10


The Atlantean Principal....The True King of Your Earth....Avila....


For all it's beauty, you will see.

[ 01-19-2006, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Paulo Riven ]

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:59:19 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-19-2006 06:17 PM                       
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All your Weaponries, I am taking away.


No more will man fear war of nuclear weapons or chemicals of destruction or guns and rifles.


We will find safer ways to control.

all nuclear tests or new brainwaves will be conducted far, far away....


on distant moons only, never planets.


much will nasa do for our future the right way..


the mass weapons are only for galactic interferences, not for us humans.

[ 01-19-2006, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Paulo Riven ]

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 03:59:50 pm
 
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 01-19-2006 07:00 PM                       
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My dear Faith and Chronos;


If your wish is pure it shall come to be.


Love Your King Paulo.

--------------------
.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4097 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:01:21 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

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Member # 2239

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   posted 01-19-2006 07:27 PM                       
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Hey, Riven, so what brought on this new awakening?
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:02:02 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

Member
Member # 2239

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   posted 01-19-2006 07:42 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Riven:
The 10 Kings of Atlantis.
by Riven and Atalante
(and a little help from our friends at AR!)

Atlantis = Atlant (Fatherland)

Aita (Basque) Patre /Atta (Greek) Pater(Latin) it(Egyptian)(all meaning Father)

Atlas(Father’s son, to raise sky)
Nw Africa (Guanches, Aterians Capsians, Berbers).

Gadeirus (green body/place of rivers[Celtic]Iberia, Basque, Cimmerian,Portugal

Greeks also referred to as: Eumeleus=rich in sheep)

Ampheres (to rest,at both sides)[Phoroneus?] Taranto>Otranto
Sicily, Sardinia, Tyrrhenia, Malta (Tarxien >Tarshin)

Evaemon(fortunate woman)[Athena?]
Algeria, Tunisia, Libya ( Atalantes, Qadan, Maxyan, Lotophagi)

Mneseus memory of a great warrior/God
(from a Trojan)[Zeus?]
Crete (Minos, Amnisus)

Autochthon(earthborn)
Peloponnesia, Attica, Cyclades.

Elassipus (horse riding, rulers)[Epaphus?]
Anatolia (Phrygia, Ionia, Caria, Ephaesus)

Mestor(NNE middle, Suitor)[Agenor?]
Phoenicia, Syria (Byblos, Tyre)

Azaes (Heat)
Mauretania (Azas, Azamor)

Diaprepes (relating to God, highly distinguished)[King Belus?]
Egypt, Nubia, Ethiopia.

The Founders of Atlantis

Poseidon (Sea God, Land God, EarthShaker, savior of ships, horses,chained feet) Cleito’s lover.

Evenor (primeval firstborn) Cleito’s Father

Leucippe (Grove of White Horses, Spartan surname) Cleito’s mother

Cleito (emperor’s favorite)[libya?] Acropolis hill, Atlantis Royal City.

Based on Atlantean migration 10,840 bC (estimated 1,240 years of growth)
Countries Liberated after Great Battle and Atlantis sinking (2850-9600 bC)

Riven dates a more precise estimate of Nov 1st, 6482 bC 21:00hrs for the great flood and sinking of Atlantis. Based on the Eye of Ra myth, ecliptic alignment of planets, Mt.Vesuvius and Mt. Hekla eruptions, Bosphorous straite (Black Sea) flooding and All Saints Day of Destruction Nov 1 and the margin of error between Greek Lunar Cycles and Egyptian Sun Cycles.(345yrs/1000)

Ironically Nov 1,1755, an earthquake from African/European plate tectonic pressure, triggered a great Tsunami that wiped out Lisbon, Azores, Madeira, Canaries and NW Africa.

ATLANTES-of Libyan people
ATLANTICUS-of Mount Atlas
ATLANTIAS-female
ATLANTIADES-male

The word Atlantis];
Re: Basque Translation by Riven

"The main evergreen forest is born a joyous miracle at dawn the abundant monument increases to unite the future arrival and remain loyal to the secret of creation."

Tribes of Atlantis website; www.mts.net/~perasa

Atalante -proposed these names also mean a working class such as Diaprepes=Priestly or Mestor=Architect

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cool stuff.
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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:03:03 pm
Jennifer O'Dell

Member
Member # 2239

Member Rated:
   posted 01-19-2006 07:57 PM                       
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posted 08-27-2004 06:50
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Bridge to Atlantis by Riven.
35 million years ago, the great Continents of America and EurAsia were halfway from their present location today. From the division of these great lands there lay behind a jewel, shining in her glory. Atlantis, the Continental Island. Silently she wept, alone in the middle of the great Atlantic Ocean, and her tears, falling gently on Earth, gave birth to the first Homo-Sapien man and woman in a land of blissful paradise around 250,000 bC. Here, the first footsteps of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal tribes roamed the great Island Continent. Somewhere around 80-150 thousand bC, disaster would first strike Atlantis with fire from Heaven. Phaestos had been unleashed. Atlantis, already weakened from a great transform fracture along the Atlantic Ridge, falls into the depths of darkness on her Northern coasts, leaving behind the Azores as witness to her event. The Great Asteroid, fermenting the waters of Atlantis and screaming with the ferocity of a million dragons in flight.

By 40,000 bC, Atlantis had already become a civilized nation soon to emerge as the Stronghold of the entire Mediterranean region with her democratic strata gems.
Unfolding the greatest Kings to ever rule Earth and live on in the legends of mankind’s stories and myths. A nation of Giants and Titans with Structures of Great works and teachings passed on through the field of time.

One of her great wise Sages, Thoth, would soon leave Atlantean soil to the Great Lake Tritonis and onward to build Egypt as the Qadan cultures around 12,000 bC.

In the meantime, Evanor and Leucippe, a people who dwealt near the Hills, gave birth to another jewel, named Cleito around 6530 bC. Cleito would grow into the Emperors favorite when she gave birth to twin boys, Atlas and Gadeiros fathered by her father Evanor to maintain the Royal Bloodlines of Atlantis as the Gods, for their purpose, wanted it to be, then. By the time Cleito was 48, or around 6482 bC, disaster would again befall the mighty Atlanteans who battled the Olympians of Attica, near the Gulf of Atranto and Peloponnesia around 3450 bC leaving behind the Gebel-Arak knife and the Narmer Palette in Egypt as some convincing evidences of this great battle.

The blazing hair of Minerva lit up the nightsky, unleashing her powers granted to her by the mighty Zeus. The Tore Seamount exploded, striking near the heart of Atlantis unleashing the air in her lungs to oblivion. Her days of glory, scattered in the remains of Madeira, Canaries, and Cape Verde islands, gone beneath the velvet coat of the misty waters.

Atlas, carried by the hand of Poseidon, lands on the West African coast near Rabat, and journeys onwards through Zagorra, Morocco into the rich Atalantes fields of paradise and washes his face in the pure waters of Lake Tritonis near Tunisia and the Cape of Gabes harbor. Marveled by the wealth of fruits and fertile land, the King of Atlantis rests his weary eyes and dreams of the Golden Apples fed to him by the Hesperidean Nymphs. After his settlement of Lake Tritonis, Atlas’s Sons, embark across the Bridge of Land to Sicily and Malta where they form the Tarxien(Tarshin/Sea Peoples) cultures and build the Giant temples of Gigantja,Malta and populate the Gulf of Atranto, Italy and Peloponnesia.
His Temples of Poseidon as a reminder to the Atlantean control of a once great nation.

Gadeiros, ruling the North Eastern portion of Atlantis flees to Portugal and the Basque regions of North Portugal/Iberia and France intermingling with the Cimmerians, leaving behind a trail of Stone monuments and Dolmens that evolved into the great temple of Stonehenge, monumental to a great Fatherland and the Secret of Creation and giving rise to the metal ages of great European nations like the Basques, Etruscans, Tyrrhenians, Scythians, Phrygians, Amazonians Thracians, and deep into the Black Sea area. Here the Hyperboreans ruled the land of evergreen fauna. The early Cimmerians, or Kynetes would later reveal to the Phoenicians around 800 bC the legend of Gadeiros where they named an island near the Straites of Gibraltar in memory of Gadeiros. Cadiz, Spain was granted good fortune and a land of many rivers to bring water to the people and would remain known as an area that faced the golden coastlines of Atlantis.

Thoth, having founded Egypt, and marking deep in her heart the secrets of Atlantis, forms a nation marveled to this day, leaving behind the Great Sphinx of devotion and Pyramid of perfection to honor the Fatherland, Atlantis and 10 Kings of Pre-Dynastic Egypt to rule in the mirror of Atlantis and it’s beliefs, prevailing in Temples of Magnitude honored by the Sons of the Pharaohs. Sadly enough, the Egyptians hide the truth of Atlantis and take the glory for themselves, forgetting where their roots and wisdom came from, Thoth. The doors to the Temples are sealed tight by the trismesgitus of Khufu, Menkaure and Khafre. The new religion of Set arises and evil relishes in the shadows of Egypt darkening the Eye of Ptah. Egypt, weary and weakened by the battles of time nears her contemptuous end and reveals her truth upon the lips of the elderly Priest in the light of King Amasis of 570 bC. Realizing the end of Egypt is near, the Egyptian Priest unloads the burden of his honor and reveals Atlantis, the Fatherland. Parent of a once noble Egypt, Crete and early Attica.

The entire Mediterranean reflecting the prisms of light from one coast to the other from the Scepters of Atlantean Kings, cast from Orichalcum (Araklum) and gems fit to be formed by the Master of Metals, Hephaestus.

And the footsteps of Great Atlanteans, countless in their resonance, cross the musky planks on the Bridge to Atlantis.

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Posts: 946 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:03:34 pm
+Faith+

Member
Member # 2886

Member Rated:
   posted 01-20-2006 01:48 AM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My dear Faith and Chronos;


If your wish is pure it shall come to be.


Love Your King Paulo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then my wish is that you find some happiness, Riven.

And that you remember, for every bad thing in this world, there is also given a good thing,

that you have made friends like me who care about you,

and that, when it is all said and done, this world is not such a bad place, it is what we make it.

God Bless for always

+Faith+

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:08:58 pm
Sarah

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quote:
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One of her great wise Sages, Thoth, would soon leave Atlantean soil to the Great Lake Tritonis and onward to build Egypt as the Qadan cultures around 12,000 bC.

In the meantime, Evanor and Leucippe, a people who dwealt near the Hills, gave birth to another jewel, named Cleito around 6530 bC.
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Riven, logically, wouldn't Cleito and company have come first, before Thoth? Thoth claimed to have been an Atlantean, whilst Cleito and Co. were said to have been the first Atlanteans.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:09:23 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-22-2006 10:15 PM                       
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Faith; My Precious Sister of Earth.


Your Heart excels in your Beauty
and Your Love Grantet Me Strength
To defeat Him, this 5480 days past of Ages.


A Kindgdom and A Star be preserved in Your Name,
Today and Forever More.


Eternal Love Paulo Jorge TX Mn.


Thankyou Sister Uman.


Peace and Eternity unto You and Your Kin.
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:09:54 pm
Sarah

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Hypatia of Alexandria

Hypatia of Alexandria (in Greek: Υπατία) (c. 380 - 415) was a philosopher, mathematician, and teacher who lived in Alexandria, then a Greek city. Several works are attributed to her by later sources, including commentaries on Diophantus's Arithmetica, on Apollonius's Conics and on Ptolemy's works, but none has survived. Letters written to her by her pupil Synesius give an idea of her intellectual milieu. She was of the Platonic school, although her adherence to the writings of Plotinus, the 3rd century follower of Plato and principal of the neo-Platonic school, is merely assumed. Hypatia's contributions to science are reputed (on scant evidence) to include the invention of the astrolabe and the hydrometer.

She was the daughter of Theon, the last fellow of the Museum of Alexandria, which was adjacent to or included in the main Library of Alexandria. Hypatia did not teach in the Museum, but received her pupils in her own private home. No images of her exist, but nineteenth century writers and artists envisioned her as an Athene-like beauty.

Hypatia was murdered in March 415 in the Alexandrian church of the Caesareum (a former pagan temple) by a mob led by a Christian magistrate named Peter. The motive seems to have been rooted in religious and political controversies.

In 391, Theophilus, the patriarch of Alexandria, had destroyed some pagan temples in the city , which may have included the Museum and certainly included the Serapeum (a temple for the worship of Serapis and "daughter library" to the Great Library). In the same year Emperor Theodosius had published an edict prohibiting various aspects of pagan worship, whereupon (although this was part of a wider phenomenon) Christians throughout the Roman Empire embarked upon a thorough campaign to destroy or christianize pagan places of worship.

Hypatia lived during a conflict between pagans, on the one side, and Christians on the other, who were demanding the final destruction of paganism as an imperial institution; it appears that certain Christians and sympathisers of either side found it difficult to come to terms with the conflict. Hypatia, herself a pagan, was respected by many Christians, and was even exalted by a few later Christian authors as a symbol of virtue, often being portrayed by them (and by romantic novelists) as a virgin till her death. These later portrayals (interesting as they are) are not entirely reliable, since they often contradict each other.

Her contemporary, the Christian historiographer Socrates Scholasticus in his Ecclesiastical History portrays her as a follows:

"There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner, which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not unfrequently appeared in public in presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in going to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more."
Some insight into the intellectual conflict of early 5th century Alexandria is given by the letters written by Synesius of Cyrene, Bishop of Ptolomais, to Hypatia, whom he loved and respected as a teacher. In one of them, he complains about people who begin to undertake philosophy after failing at some other career: "Their philosophy consists in a very simple formula, that of calling God to witness, as Plato did, whenever they deny anything or whenever they assert anything. A shadow would surpass these men in uttering anything to the point; but their pretensions are extraordinary." In this letter, he also tells Hypatia that "the same men" had accused him of storing "unrevised copies" of books in his library. [1] This indicates that books were rewritten to suit the prevailing Christian dogma, which may also relate to the difficulty of finding accurate contemporary information about Hypatia's life and death.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:10:23 pm
Sarah

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Hypatia's death

Theories about the mob violence that ended Hypatia's life range from a local, spontaneous Christian uprising tolerated by the Christian Patriarch Cyril of Alexandria over a conflict between Cyril and the more tolerant prefect Orestes; to a conspiracy supported by the Emperor himself; to a lawless, civilian "peasant stock" mob (soldiers are never mentioned) made up of superstitious Christians and non-Christians alike led by the charismatic zealot "Peter." Another point of view holds that Hypatia was part of a rebellion and her murder unfortunate, but inevitable (In the ancient world, it was common for historians to copy from each other without further inquiry, thus making a resolution difficult).

Socrates Scholasticus described her death thus in his Ecclesiastical History:

"Yet even she fell a victim to the political jealousy which at that time prevailed. For as she had frequent interviews with Orestes, it was calumniously reported among the Christian populace, that it was she who prevented Orestes from being reconciled to the bishop. Some of them therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles. After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them. This affair brought not the least opprobrium, not only upon Cyril, but also upon the whole Alexandrian church. And surely nothing can be farther from the spirit of Christianity than the allowance of massacres, fights, and transactions of that sort. This happened in the month of March during Lent, in the fourth year of Cyril's episcopate, under the tenth consulate of Honorius, and the sixth of Theodosius [AD 415]."
John, Bishop of Nikiû, a 7th century author, described her death as follows, obviously drawing on Socrates but coming to rather different conclusions [2]:

"And [after an alleged Jewish massacre was punished by the Christians and the Jews expelled from the city] a multitude of believers in God arose under the guidance of Peter the magistrate – now this Peter was a perfect believer in all respects in Jesus Christ – and they proceeded to seek for the pagan woman who had beguiled the people of the city and the prefect through her enchantments. And when they learnt the place where she was, they proceeded to her and found her seated on a (lofty) chair; and having made her descend they dragged her along till they brought her to the great church, named Caesarion. Now this was in the days of the fast. And they tore off her clothing and dragged her [till they brought her] through the streets of the city till she died. And they carried her to a place named Cinaron, and they burned her body with fire. And all the people surrounded the patriarch Cyril and named him 'the new Theophilus'; for he had destroyed the last remains of idolatry in the city."
The Catholic Encyclopedia states:[1]

In one of these riots, in 422, the prefect Callistus was killed, and in another was committed the murder of a female philosopher Hypatia, a highly-respected teacher of neo-Platoism, of advanced age and (it is said) many virtues. She was a friend of Orestes, and many believed that she prevented a reconciliation between the prefect and patriarch. A mob led by a lector, named Peter, dragged her to a church and tore her flesh with potsherds till she died. This brought great disgrace, says Socrates, on the Church of Alexandria and on its bishop; but a lector at Alexandria was not a cleric (Scr., V, xxii), and Socrates does not suggest that Cyril himself was to blame. Damascius, indeed, accuses him, but he is a late authority and a hater of Christians.
John of Nikiû also portrays Hypatia as a witch:

"And in those days there appeared in Alexandria a female philosopher, a pagan named Hypatia, and she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes and instruments of music, and she beguiled many people through (her) Satanic wiles. And the governor of the city honored her exceedingly; for she had beguiled him through her magic. And he ceased attending church as had been his custom."
The punishment of witchcraft had been determined decades earlier by Emperor Constantius, as noted in Soldan's and Heppe's Geschichte der Hexenprozesse [3, p.82]:

"Things changed with Constantius, who thoroughly tried to get rid of magic and therefore of paganism. In one of the laws he passed for that reason he complains that there were many magicians who caused storms with the help of demons and who harmed others' lives. The magicians caught in Rome were supposed to be thrown to wild animals, the ones picked up in provinces were to be tortured and, if they persistently denied, the flesh should be torn off their bones with iron hooks."
Although iron hooks were not used, Hypatia's death seems to match the prescribed punishment for witchcraft; the Greek term for the implements used in the killing, ostrakois, is translated as "tiles", but literally means "oystershells". Hypatia may have been the first famous "witch" punished under Christian authority, as was noted by many church-critical authors; however, while some of the Christian invective used to justify or excuse her murder betrays a vulgar reliance on fear of black magic, the essence of Christian objections to her influence will have lain in the turbulent confluence of Christian and Platonic assertions about the nature of God and the afterlife, which achieved its most famous expression fifteen years later in Augustine's The City of God. The Patriarch, Cyril, a sophisticated theologian who was posthumously canonised by the church, has been accused of complicity in the murder, but there is no evidence to support this; however, he does appear to have failed to condemn the act.

Some authors have used Hypatia's death as a symbol of the repression of, in their terms, a reasoned paganism by an irrational religion. Included among these was the astronomer Carl Sagan, who provided a vivid account of her death and the burning of the Library of Alexandria in his popular science book Cosmos. Earlier writers sharing that view include Voltaire and historian Edward Gibbon. The Christian English writer, Charles Kingsley, portrayed the philosopher in his historical romance, Hypatia (1860), in which she converts to Christianity at the approach of her death. A serious study by the Polish historian Maria Dzielska, Hypatia of Alexandria (1995), explains Hypatia's death as the result of a struggle between two Christian factions, the moderate Orestes—supported by Hypatia—and the more rigid Cyril.

All the above works use ancient writers as their primary sources. Dzielska, alone, makes use of surviving personal letters written by students of the philosopher.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:10:47 pm
Sarah

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Year of birth

Traditionally a late date of birth has been ascribed to Hypatia, perhaps influenced by after-the-fact romanticized images of her which depict her dying as a young and beautiful woman. Many authors presumed she died in her forties, and thus had been born around 370. However, Dzielska has most recently argued that she was more likely born around 350 and thus would have been in her sixties when she was killed.


Hypatia by Charles William Mitchell (1885)[1] Letter 154 of Synesius of Cyrene to Hypatia (online version).

[2] John, Bishop of Nikiu: The Life of Hypatia. Chronicle 84.87-103 (online version).

[3] Soldan, W.G. und Heppe, H., Geschichte der Hexenprozesse, Essen 1990. (English translation by Erik Möller.)

External links
Resources on Hypatia: booklist, classroom activities
Extensive biography on Hypatia. This website takes the position that Hypatia was an astrologer, for which no evidence exists.
James Grout: Hypatia, part of the Encyclopædia Romana
"Hipatia" – an organisation promoting "the adoption of public policies combined with human and social behaviour that favour the free availability and sustainability of, and social access to, technology and knowledge".
Her history and contributions to science
Church of Saint Hypatia of Alexandria in Montclair, New Jersey
English translations of some of the works referred to above.
Hypatia World: website dedicated to the continuation of the work of Hypatia
A counter-point to some of the assertions appearing in Maria Dzielska's Hypatia of Alexandria. Note: Prudish scholars are advised not to download the .PDF version of this lengthy document

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

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"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Posts: 822 | Registered: Oct 2005


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:11:12 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-26-2006 09:21 AM                       
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Try looking at these new pics of the lion of tahla if you still doubt;

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Tahla%20Lion%201%20Riven06.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Tahla%20Lion%202%20Riven06.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Tahla%20Lion%203%20Riven%2006.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/The%20Message%20of%20God%20JA%20Riven%20Jan06.htm


http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/


Thanks for your hard work Sarah, I haven't forgotten nor ever will.
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles.


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:11:43 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-27-2006 11:51 PM                       
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Library of Alexandria - we wonder if we shall ever find it. But do we ever truly want to find it or is it better that it remain a mystery, lingering in the shadows, wherein each of us can build our own personal fantasies about what it had been?

Much like Atlantis has become?

In this age, which has become the complete antithesis of the word, "idyillic," Atlantis has become each our own private utopias. Sarah might envision one Atlantis, no doubt Riven envisions another. And my Atlantis would be perhaps grander than either of you because perhaps I need it more. I need to know that people were not always as they are now. I need to know that at one time, there was something better in the world. In my Atlantis, there is such a thing as absolute right and absolute wrong in the world, I cannot abide these pale shades of gray.

So many fantasies, if it ever is found, can it not help but to disappoint...someone?

And that is why, perhaps I wish for it not to be found.

Because, no matter what Atlantis was, it cannot help but to disappoint someone.

And, like God, I do not need to see God to know that God is truly there. I know in my heart, and that is enough.

I don't need archaeologists cataloging bits of Atlantean pottery and trying to figure out what date it was.

And I don't actually need to know if there truly were 1200 ships or if they were actually triremes or not. I don't need to know that there was only one concentric ring, not three, or that the plain was only a fraction of the size. I don't need for some damn fool who doesn't "feel" Atlantis like I do, to tell me that Plato exaggerated certain things when I know damn well he didn't. Exaggerated? Hardly, his words did not do it justice.

What did Jackie Kennedy say when her husband was shot in Dealey Plaza?

"Lord, save him from all the bitter old men that will now want to write about him."

And that's what I want for my Atlantis to be: saved from all the bitter old men that want to write about it.

I know Atlantis existed, and that is enough for me. If people want to say that it didn't exist, fine, to me, that would be akin to someone saying that they did not believe in God. I know it was there, and that is enough.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:12:18 pm
 
Sarah

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   posted 01-28-2006 10:37 PM                       
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You are very welcome, Riven.

I love all the pictures on your website, by the way. All that must have been one whole lot of work putting it together.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:12:49 pm
Sarah

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   posted 01-28-2006 10:40 PM                       
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quote:
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I know Atlantis existed, and that is enough for me. If people want to say that it didn't exist, fine, to me, that would be akin to someone saying that they did not believe in God. I know it was there, and that is enough.
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Come to think of it, I know that Atlantis existed as well, and another thing I know about it: the land birthed no fundies, and that would be enough for me.

--------------------
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand fail..." - King David, Psalms 137:5

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/index.html

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:13:19 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-30-2006 08:41 PM                       
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Dawn;


In time, with understanding and logic, you will come to recognize the greatness of the works I have laid before you in my website;


www.mts.net/~goldlion

All your questions will be answered, in Truth.

Our Earth was reborn after that Great Destruction of October 31/st 6482.bC, therefore our corrected date of 8488 aR if you like for after rebirth, or aJA, after JA, the Creator who seems to be strongly suggested from my research and factual pictures.

There is no denying the multitude of Spiral Cities that have been uncovered like bur atalhitan, Tarxien, Malta, and Atlantis II in Africa.

Africa or Avila is the surviving Atlantis to this day which in time you will understand moreso as you gaze upon my flooded map of the NEW MIDDLE EARTH, in my website.


The very purpose of the Spiral is to remind us of our Galaxies in this universe being also a spiral of arms.


The Concentric Circles has to be 3, because this is our distance from the Sun, the 3rd planet Earth, if we lived on a terraformed Mars, then we would abide by 4 rings...see?


This research is a new and postive step for mankind and a great justice done for Plato and God, not only for our Truth but also for the return of his Son....


which, I may not be the Son of Man, but perhaps the redeemer of man and woman with new and truthful justification of what happened with Mr.24 that day of 6482.bC, then Mr.34 at 3474.bC, and today Mr.44.

So yes it is clear that there is only one true Son of Man, MR.24 and the rest embodiements perhaps of the first Good Human beings.


There must be a reason for me to discover all this...

what that is precisely I am unsure of, but it has been a rewarding experience to say beyond any doubt that Atlantis is very real and very alive today.


Give it time and eventually people will come to see this in their research which only took me 2 years because of my ability to "sense" and foresee at an accelerated pace of study.


The most important thing for me, is not so much the discovery of Atlantis revealed, nor the return of The Son to Man by breaking the code of the Temple, but for the Truth of our History to be known by all, and perhaps a new way for our world leaders to run a better and prosperous Earth.


Something they can do without Evil persuasions or suppressions, but purity towards all of us humans as a nation worthy of eternity and not nuked to oblivion or our Earth Toppled because of Greed and Power mongers.


Peace be To All and To All a pleasant future of certainty and new understanding, such as the library of Alexandria will be rebuilt with their original books someday.


Thankyou Sincerely

Paulo and his Horse Riven.
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:13:45 pm
Aristotle

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Riven,

I wonder at the task ahead of any Atlantis researcher, to conclusively prove something that (apparently) means so many different things to so many different people.

Actually, I don't envy anyone the task of trying tell everyone just what and where it was, especially since it may not have even been actually named, "Atlantis," or if it even existed at all, for that matter.

[ 01-30-2006, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Aristotle ]

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:14:21 pm
Apondence Crawford

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   posted 01-31-2006 12:37 AM                       
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Nice posts, Jennifer, Faith, Riven & Dawn, very thought-provoking.

Is there any fantasy in the ancient world any greater than the Library of Alexandria?

I think we only have a sketch of what the ancients knew at best, leftovers of their former knowledge. It was such a surprise to archaeologists when they discovered the Antikythera Mechanism, and it's moving gears, not to mention the Baghdad Battery, all the secrets of Roman engineering. We don't have an accurate picture...of anything! We only have what they left behind.

One of the things that would be most exciting to me would be to see the ancient maps, just what they knew of their world. Would one of them actually have a former island in the ocean on it?

How many other empires might have risen and fallen that we didn't know about?

The most ignorant thing: setting fire to knowledge, no matter who did it. How many of our inventions were simply reinventions?

Long live the Library of Alexandria, even if it is only in our hearts, I suppose.
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:15:00 pm
Riven

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  posted 01-31-2006 01:40 PM                       
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Aristotle;

For the most part the indication seems to imply that the real name of Atlantis was....


JALANTA...after their God Ja...according to my research.


There is no task to disclose where or when, but that it is to this day still in existence...guaranteed as our lion of Tahla so confidently reveals and the spiral cities to be found all over this NEW middle Earth.

Bear in mind this all takes place after the Great Earth Shift or Flood of 6482.bC...therefore Atlantis II.

Atlantis I was the large Island identical to Atlantis II, which disappeared...verifiable.


Apondence Crawford, bird on the branch of wisdom;


The Greatest Fantasy other than the Greatest Library, is Atlantis.....

problem being that it is no longer a fantasy but FACT FOR ALL TO SEE AND WITNESS here;

www.mts.net/~goldlion


How many other Empires you ask?

Why a multitude of course when one is to consider the 5 million year age of man, if that be so, according to Scientific studies of Stone Age Man and the oldest fossils in Africa on the ISLAND OF ATLANTIS II..


My belief is that for every Zodiac cycle of 26,000 years new nations and technology emerge and have emerged in our past.


Lemuria for example or the strange helicopter and aircrafts found covered in Abydos.

To verify this, we only need to understand our evolvment in the last 8488 years since the Great Earth Shift of 45 degrees...


I no longer believe in The Ice Age Theory or Teuctonic plate shifting, but rather, teuctonic plate retensions or slowing down to our current 2 cm rate.

The pyramids in Egypt which aligned the Axis of The Earth back then verify this 45 degree Earth Shift.


Then we have my revealment of the Books of Mylo (herodotus) ca 500.bC which is indicated that he was writing in the time of Broken Oracles of false doctrines, such as our history has been covered up and rewritten many times over by those who have the gold to make the golden rule.


Best Wishes to All

Your True Atlantean King Paulo Riven
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:15:54 pm
+Faith+

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   posted 01-31-2006 09:11 PM                       
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WHO WAS AKHENATON?


This seems rather a strange question to ask at this stage but it is really rather appropriate for us to somehow take stock of the facts about this strange monarch.

He was the son of Amenophis III and Queen Tye.

He had a religious experience that changed his life and the lives of his people for the rest of his reign.

He brought to an end the worship of Amon and the other divinities.

He brought about the sole worship of the Aton.

He closed down the temples of Karnak and Luxor at Thebes.

He moved his capital from Thebes to Tel el Amarna.

He was married to Nefertiti and had six daughters.

One of his daughters married Tut-ankh-aton who became King Tutankhamon.

He spent a life of devotion to writing hymns and poetry to the Aton.

Very little is known about the end of his life.

His wife disappeared, again what happened to her is uncertain.

After the departure of his wife, he made the half brother, or possibly elder brother of Tutankhamon, Smenkhare, his co-regent.

The tomb of Smenkhare has been discovered and this has proved to be one of the biggest mysteries of Ancient Egypt. (This is explained in the next book in the series that deals with the tragic lives of both of these two boy kings.



What happened to him?

This final question as to what happened to Akhenaton is something that is open to complete speculation. However, here are the possible answers and it is I am afraid up to you to determine which one you think is most plausible.

He could have died naturally shortly before the sole reign of Smenkhare that lasted for a mere four months. His burial place has not yet been discovered.

He could have fled into the desert fearing the rebellion of his army.

He could have been Moses who led his people out of Egypt.

These are the three possibilities.

The first two are plausible and very tidy, but the third is something that takes the entire question on a different level of thinking because it brings us back to Alien intervention!

If Akhenaton was inspired by some external force, be it spiritually based Beings of Light or more matter of fact Aliens, could it be that perhaps he was at the end of his time on Earth and taken to live with them.

There has been much speculation about Moses and in particular the Ark of the Covenant in which the tablets of the Law were placed.

The Biblical portrayal of Moses offers us great clues as to his real nature.

Moses had divine guidance to lead his people out of Egypt.

He was assisted by the performance of ‘miracles’ to achieve his objective.

He was able to talk to ‘God’ in a way no other man could.

Was this a divinity or Alien associates?

When he went up into the mountain to speak to God, he returned with a shining face, was this due to exposure to radiation?

The actual composition of the Ark of the Covenant was so lethal that anyone going anywhere near it had to wear protective clothing.

The Bible records the deaths of those who failed to obey the specific instructions given by Moses pertaining to the Ark.

Sadly no investigation can ever come up with concrete answers regarding the demise of an historic figure if there is no body. Also if there is such mass destruction of everything that pertained to him on a scale as vast as the one launched by Horemhab, then it virtually becomes an impossibility.

However, there is something so special about this particular monarch that even such an onslaught has not been able to silence one of History’s greatest enigmas.

http://www.ra-horakhty.co.uk/magic/who_was_akhenaton.htm

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:16:33 pm
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THE DAWN OF MONOTHEISM REVISITED (II)

A INTRODUCTION

In the Koran,Moses' return from the Sinai is related as follows (Sura VII, 104-24):

"Moses said: 'O Pharaoh! I am an apostle from the Lord of the Worlds,
one for whom it is right to say nothing but truth about Allah.
Now have I come unto you (people), from Your Lord with a clear (Sign)
so let the Children of Israel depart along with me.'
(Pharaoh) said: 'If indeed thou have come with a Sign, show it forth, if you tellest the truth.'
Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold!, it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)!
And he drew out his hand and behold! it was white to all beholders!
Said the Chiefs of the people to Pharaoh:
'This is indeed a sorcerer well-versed. His plan is to get you out of your land.'
'Then what is it ye counsel?' They said: 'Keep him and his brother in suspense (for a while)
and send to the cities men to collect and bring up to thee all (our) sorcerers well-versed.'
So there came the sorcerers to Pharaoh.
They said: 'Of course we shall have a (suitable) reward if we win!'
He said: 'Yea (and more), for ye shall in that case be (raised to posts) nearest (to my person).'
They said: 'O Moses wilt thou throw (first), or shall we have the (first) throw?'
Said Moses: 'Throw ye (first).' So when they threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people,
and struck terror into them, for they showed a great (feat of) magic.
He put it into Moses' mind by inspiration: 'Throw (now) thy rod.'
And behold! it swallowed up straightaway all the falsehoods which they faked.
Thus truth was confirmed, and all that they did was made of no effect.
So the (great ones) were vanquished there and then, and were made to look small.
But the sorcerers fell down prostrate in adoration, saying: 'We believe in the Lord of the Worlds,
the Lord of Moses and Aaron.'
Said Pharaoh: 'Believe ye in Him before I give you permission?
Surely this is a trick which ye have planned in the City to drive out its people,
but soon shall ye know (the consequences).
Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides,
and I will cause you all to die on the cross."


The Bible, by comparison, renders the same episode as follows (Exodus, 7:10-13):

"And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded:
and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt,
they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents:
but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."
* * *

§1 In 1961, the Egyptologist Sir Alan Gardiner set the stage for a more enlightening reading of humanity's record - in as much as it relied on Egypt's history and its King List as relayed to us notably by the historian Manetho. In his book "Egypt of the Pharaohs" (p.170), he declared: "Manetho's narrative represents the last stage of a process of falsifications which started within a generation after the triumph of Amosis" over the vilified Hyksos (1575-1550 Old Chronology, henceforth OC). In this critical analysis, Gardiner has been supported by a growing number of scholars, some thus coming up with remarkable - even if occasionally conflicting - new ideas, theories and insights (1). One of them, the Islamic scholar and Egyptologist Ahmed Osman, in one of his latest books "Moses Pharaoh of Egypt - the Mystery of Akhenaten Resolved", thus commented our tampered records:

"Like the accounts of the historian Manetho, the Talmudic stories contain many distortions and accretions arising from the fact that they were transmitted orally for a long time before finally being set down in writing. Yet one can sense that behind the myths there must have lain genuine historical events that had been suppressed from the official accounts of both Egypt and Israel, but had survived in the memories of the generations" (p.24). "The Alexandrian Jews were naturally interested in Manetho's account of their historic links with Egypt, although they found some aspects of it objectionable. His original work therefore did not survive for long before being tampered with [2/3 of Zarathushtra's Avesta reportedly was even deliberately destroyed]" (p.27). And: "Yoyotte ... became one of the few to see through the 'embellishments' of the biblical account and identify the historical core of the story ..." (p.48).
§2 Thus, it was time someone went beyond mere bickering over the confusing King Lists. With his book "A Test of Time", the Assyrologist and Egyptologist David Rohl has presented an archeologically and astronomically supported New Chronology (henceforth NC, with the reign of Ramses II thus placed in the 10th century BC, i.e. dated some 350 years later than traditionally recorded, and the reign of Akhenaton beginning some 3025 years ago and overlapping the ascendancy of David as the successor to King Saul). If independently confirmed in its key elements by further research, we would find ourselves at the threshold of a new era, providing startling synchronologies of the past to which we were blinded through our own shortcomings and not necessarily by design. Recognizing this could have vast implications for the future far beyond the bedeviled Middle Eastern craddle where our monotheistic beliefs appear to have their common roots. Osman's comments on the above-quoted koranic and biblical texts may help us to get there:
"... the Koran presents the confrontation in such a precise way that one wonders if some of the details were left out of the biblical account deliberately. Here Moses sounds less like a magician, more like someone who presents evidence of his authority that convinces the wise men of Egypt, who throw themselves at his feet and thus earn the punishment of [an imposter] Pharaoh. One can only suspect that the biblical editor exercised care to avoid any Egyptian involvement with the Israelite Exodus, even to the extent of replacing Moses by Aaron in the performance of the rituals. ... [During] their sed festival celebrations, Egyptian kings performed rituals that correspond to the 'serpent rod' and 'hand' rituals performed by Moses - and, in performing them, Moses was not using magic but seeking to establish his royal authority.
I think the correct interpretation of these accounts [of the Bible and the Koran] is that, when Akhenaten was forced to abdicate, he must have taken his royal sceptre to Sinai with him. On the death of Horemheb, the last king of the Eighteenth Dynasty, about a quarter of a century later, he must have seen an opportunity to restore himself to the throne. No heir to the Tuthmosside kings existed and it was Pa-Ramses, commander of Horemheb's army and governor of Zarw, who had claim to the throne. Akhenaten returned to Egypt and the wise men were gathered in order to decide between him and Pa-Ramses. Once they saw the sceptre of royal authority and Akhenaten had performed the sed festival rituals - secret from ordinary citizens - the wise men bowed the knee in front of him, confirming that his was the superior right to the throne, but Pa-Ramses used his army to crush the rebels. Moses was allowed to leave again for Sinai, however, accompanied by the Israelites, his mother's relatives, and the few Egyptians who had been converted to the new [monotheistic] religion that he had attempted to force upon Egypt a quarter of a century earlier. In Sinai the followers of Akhenaten were joined subsequently by some bedouin tribes (the Shasu), who are to be identified as the Midianites of the Bible. No magic was performed, or intended, by Moses. The true explanation of the biblical story could only be that it was relating the polical challenge for power in a mythological way - and all the plagues of which we read were natural, seasonal events in Egypt in the course of every year. ..." (p.178f)
"This would explain how a new version of the Osiris-Horus myth came into existence from the time of the Nineteenth Dynasty. Osiris, the King of Egypt, was said to have had to leave the country for a long time. On his eventual return he was assassinated by Set, who had usurped the throne, but Horus, the son of Osiris, confronted Set at Zarw and slew him. According to my interpretation of events, it was in fact 'Set' who slew 'Horus'; but their roles were later reversed by those who wished to believe in an eternal life for Horus [alternatively, if their roles were not reversed, that might support the idea that Moses/Akhenaton had a role to play in Canaan/Palestine in the post-exodus period]. This new myth developed to the point where Osiris/Horus became the principal god worshipped in Egypt in later times while Set was looked upon as the evil one. This myth could have been a popular reflection of a real historical event - a confrontation between Moses and Seti I on top of the mountain in Moab." (p.187f)


http://www.solami.com/a1.htm

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:17:16 pm
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AKHENATON'S GREAT HYMN TO ATON
as rendered by Sir Alan Gardiner (in: Egypt of the Pharaohs, Oxford 1961, p.225f); cfpsalm 104

(1) "Thou arisest beauteous in the horizon of heaven, O living Aten,
beginner of life when thou didst shine forth in the eastern horizon,
and didst fill every land with thy beauty.

(2) Thou art comely, great, sparkling, and high above every land,
and thy rays enfold the lands to the limit of all that thou hast made,
thou being the sun and thou reachest their limits and subjectest them to thy beloved son.

(3) Being far off, yet thy rays are upon the earth.
Thou art in men's faces, yet thy movements are unseen.
When thou settest in the western horizon,
the earth is in darkness after the manner of death.
The night is passed in the bedchamber, heads covered, no eye can see its fellow.
Their belongings are stolen,
even though they be under their heads, and they perceive it not.
Every lion is come forth from its lair and all snakes bite.
Darkness is (the sole) illumination while the earth is in silence,
their maker resting in his horizon.

(4) The earth grows bright, when thou hast arisen in the horizon,
shining as Aten in the daytime.
Thou banishest darkness and bestowest thy rays.
The Two Lands are in festival,
awakened they stand on their feet, thou hast lifted them up.
Their limbs are cleansed, clothes put on,
and their hands are upraised in praise at thy glorious appearing.
The entire land does its work.
All cattle are at peace upon their pastures.
Trees and pasture grow green.
Birds taking flight from their nest, their wings give praise to thy spirit.
All animals frisk upon their feet.
All that flyeth or alighteth live when thou arisest for them.
Ships fare north and likewise fare south.
Every road is opened at thy appearing.
The fish in the river leap before thy face.
Thy rays are in the Great-Green [sea].
Who causest the male fluid to grow in women
and who makest the water in mankind;
bringing to life the son in the body of his mother;
soothing him by the cessation of his tears;
nurse (already) in the body, who givest air to cause to live all whom thou makest,
and he descendeth from the body to breathe on the day of his birth;
though openest his mouth fully and makest his sustenance.
The chick in the egg, speaketh in the shell;
thou givest him air in it to make him live;
thou hast made for him his completion so as to break it, even the egg,
and he cometh forth from the egg to speak of his completion,
and he walketh upon his two feet when he comes forth from it.

5) How manifold are thy works.
They are mysterious in men's sight.
Thou sole god, like to whom there is none other.
Thou didst create the earth after thy heart, being alone,
even all men, heards and flocks, whatever is upon earth,
creatures that walk upon feet, which soar aloft flying with their wings,
the countries of Khor [Palestine and Syria] and of Kush, and the land of Egypt.
Thou settest every man in his place, and makest their sustenance,
each one possessing his food, and his term of life counted;
tongues made diverse in speech and their character likewise;
their complexions distinguished country and country.

(6) Thou makest the Nile-flood in the netherworld,
and bringest it at thy pleasure to give life to the common folk,
even as thou makest them for thyself,
the lord of the all who travailest with them;
the lord of every land who shinest for them,
the Aten of the daytime, great of majesty.
All distant lands, thou hast made their life.
Thou hast set a Nile-flood in the sky [rain],
and it descendeth for them and maketh waves upon the mountains
like the Great-Green to drench their fields in their villages.
How efficacious are thy plans, thou lord of eternity.
A Nile-flood in heaven, it is thy gift to the foreign countries
and to the animals of every country which walk upon feet.
But the Nile-flood comes forth from the netherworld for the land of Egypt.
Thy rays foster every mead.
When thou shinest forth, they live and they grow for thee.

(7) Thou makest the seasons in order to prosper all that thou hast made,
the winter to cool them, the summer-heat that they may taste of thee.
Thou hast made the sky distant to shine in it and to see all that thou hast made,
being alone and shining in thy various forms as the living Aten,
appearing gloriously and gleaming, being both distant and near.
Thou makest millions of forms out of thee alone,
towns and villages, fields, roads, and rivers.
Every eye beholds thee in front of it, thou being the disk of the daytime. ...

(8) There is none other that knoweth thee except thy son Neferkhprure-waenre.
Thou hast caused him to be skilled in thy ways and in thy strength.
The earth comes into being upon thy hand even as thou makest them.
Thou hast shone forth and they live.
Thou settest and thy die.
Thou thyself art lifetime and men live by thee.
Eyes are in presence of beauty until thou settest.
All work is laid aside when thou settest on the right [west].
Rising thou makest prosper ... for the king,
movement is in every leg since thou didst found the earth.
Thou raisest them up for thy son who came forth from thy body,
the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, living on Truth,
the lord of the Two Lands Neferkheprure-waenre, the son of Re, living on Truth,
Lord of glorious appearings Akhenaten great in his duration;
with the king's great wife, whom he loves,
the lady of the Two Lands, Nefernefruaten-Nefertiti,
may she live and flourish for ever and ever."


http://www.solami.com/a1.htm

--------------------
(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:18:04 pm
+Faith+

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It is suggested by experts:

Marcilo Ficino (~1500AD) showing that Moses is the Monotheist Egyptian King (called at that time "Hermes Trismegistus")

Isaac Casaubon (~1600AD) who theorized that Hermes Trismegistus did not exist.

The Nag Hammadi scrolls (discovered ~1900AD) which invalidate Casaubon's thesis.

Egyptologists from Petrie to Aldred (~1900~1980AD) who describe the life and disappearance of Akhnaton.

Freud (Moses & Monotheism ~1910~1939AD) who associated (Master-Disciple) Moses with the recent discovery of Akhnaton; his book (and is life) is an interesting chapter of the resistance/ discovery".

Velikovsky (Oedipus & Akhnaton ~1960AD) who showed that Oedipus was not a legend but an historical record; he brings therefore the "Oedipus Complex" to a realism that Freud himself would not have dreamt of.

Osman (Akhnaten King of Egypt ~1990AD) who shows after Freud that Akhnaton IS Moses since Egyptology is able to explain that he was Hebrew by his mother Tiye. Meanwhile his resistance led him to forget all what he knew with passion during his youth ,when he was specialized in Greek Mythology.

I began myself to identify the triple identity in 1985 using the psychoanalytical tool while extended to Collective Psychology (Plural Analysis). The automatic ostracism resulting from my community allowed me to travel, meet Osman and others - especially: France Yates' students. Her "Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition" shows how the Renaissance missed the opportunity to uncover the repressed memory of the Monotheist Egyptian King, and her "The Art of Memory" suggests how it may be recovered during a moment of chaos. (I understood then that it was what I called Plural Analysis)

It is my impression that with respect to three-borns there are several through our years which could qualify for attention and appreciation.

Tracing down the Christian line, for example, there is Moses, Paul and Jerome, whom I regard as the same person reappearing for scriptural purposes. But there are also others

Yes, there are certainly many "three-born" figures in our culture. Yet it must not hide the fact that there are some persons who may have endorse two or three identities.

About a same person reappearing - as some would say "reincarnating" - we have Copernicus and Freud according to Lacan (that I believe was not a stupid idea, as I noted it in The Structure of the Discovery). The word "repetition" would be more contextual in this case - however, you may notice in this site an essay about "reincarnation."

http://www.greatdreams.com/moses.htm

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(Psalms) 31:5,
"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:18:41 pm
Aristotle

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quote:
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Aristotle;

For the most part the indication seems to imply that the real name of Atlantis was....


JALANTA...after their God Ja...according to my research.


There is no task to disclose where or when, but that it is to this day still in existence...guaranteed as our lion of Tahla so confidently reveals and the spiral cities to be found all over this NEW middle Earth.

Bear in mind this all takes place after the Great Earth Shift or Flood of 6482.bC...therefore Atlantis II.

Atlantis I was the large Island identical to Atlantis II, which disappeared...verifiable.
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I wonder just how claims like this can possibly be verified.

Riven, we have not talked before this so I should preface everything I say by first telling you that I am not a believer in Atlantis. While I am certain there were a multitude of civilizations that existed that we don't, nor shall we ever know about, I doubt that one will ever be found that precisely matches the details given by Plato.

Like my namesake, I doubt that it ever existed, yet believe that the true value of Atlantis lies in what Plato meant to teach us: namely, the lessons of greed, aggression and immorality. If, in the end, that was all that Atlantis turned out to be, would it be such a bad lesson? It is a cautionary tale that holds just as much value in this age as any other one.

The fact that we are still talking about it proves the timeless lesson of the tale.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:19:09 pm
Chronos

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Thanks to +Faith+, Riven, Dawn, Apondence and Aristotle for their fine contributions.

We like to imagine that the Library of Alexandria had other accounts of Atlantis to corroborate it's existence. And yet, the fragments we have of the knowledge in the ancient world actually do corroborate it more than we give them credit for.

The following passages were dug up by Herr Saltzman and Rich, I list them here in the spirit of further enlightenment:

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The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:19:36 pm
Chronos

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Herodotus:

At the distance of ten days' journey from the Garamantians there is again another salt-hill and spring of water; around which dwell a people, called the Atarantians, who alone of all known nations are destitute of names. The title of Atarantians is borne by the whole race in common; but the men have no particular names of their own. The Atarantians, when the sun rises high in the heaven, curse him, and load him with reproaches, because (they say) he burns and wastes both their country and themselves. Once more at the distance of ten days' there is a salt-hill, a spring, and an inhabited tract. Near the salt is a mountain called Atlas, very taper and round; so lofty, moreover, that the top (it is said) cannot be seen, the clouds never quitting it either summer or winter. The natives call this mountain "the Pillar of Heaven"; and they themselves take their name from it, being called Atlantes. They are reported not to eat any living thing, and never to have any dreams.

Thus from Egypt as far as Lake Tritonis Libya is inhabited by wandering tribes, whose drink is milk and their food the flesh of animals. Cow's flesh, however, none of these tribes ever taste, but abstain from it for the same reason as the Egyptians, neither do they any of them breed swine. Even at Cyrene, the women think it wrong to eat the flesh of the cow, honoring in this Isis, the Egyptian goddess, whom they worship both with fasts and festivals. The Barcaean women abstain, not from cow's flesh only, but also from the flesh of swine. West of Lake Tritonis the Libyans are no longer wanderers, nor do they practice the same customs as the wandering people, or treat their children in the same way."

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http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:20:09 pm
Chronos

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Diodorus

2. But now that we have examined these matters it will be fitting, in connection with the regions we have mentioned, to discuss the account which history records of the Amazons who were in Libya in ancient times. For the majority of mankind believe that the only Amazons were those who are reported to have dwelt in the neighborhood of the Thermodon river on the Pontus; but the truth is otherwise, since the Amazons of Libya were much earlier in point of time and accomplished notable deeds. Now we are not unaware that to many who read this account the history of this people will appear to be a thing unheard of and entirely strange; for since the race of these Amazons disappeared entirely many generations before the Trojan War, whereas the women about the Thermodon river were in their full vigor a little before that time, it is not without reason that the later people, who were also better known, should have inherited the fame of the earlier, who are entirely unknown to most men because of the lapse of time. For our part, however, since we find that many early poets and historians, and not a few of the later ones as well, have made mention of them, we shall endeavor to recount their deeds in summary, following the account of Dionysius [Skytobrachion], who composed a narrative about the Argonauts and Dionysus, and also about many other things which took place in the most ancient times.

Now there have been in Libya a number of races of women who were warlike and greatly admired for their manly vigor; for instance, tradition tells us of the race of the Gorgons, against whom, as the account is given, Perseus made war, a race distinguished for its valor; for the fact that it was the son of Zeus, the mightiest Greek of his day, who accomplished the campaign against these women, and that this was his greatest Labor may be taken by any man as proof of both the pre-eminence and the power of the women we have mentioned. Furthermore, the manly prowess of those of whom we are now about to write presupposes an amazing pre-eminence when compared with the nature of the women of our day.

three amazons preparing for battle 53. We are told, namely, that there was once in the western parts of Libya, on the bounds of the inhabited world, a race which was ruled by women and followed a manner of life unlike that which prevails among us. For it was the custom among them that the women should practice the arts of war and be required to serve in the army for a fixed period, during which time they maintained their virginity; then when the years of their service in the field had expired, they went in to the men for the procreation of children, but they kept in their hands the administration of the magistracies and of all the affairs of the state. The men, however, like our married women, spent their days about the house, carrying out the orders which were given them by their wives; and they took no part in military campaigns or in office or in the exercise of freedom of speech in the affairs of the community by virtue of which they might become presumptuous and rise up against the women. When their children were born the babies were turned over to the men, who brought them up on milk and such cooked foods as were appropriate to the age of the infants; and if it happened that a girl was born, its breasts were seared that they might not develop at the time of maturity; for they thought that the breasts, as they stood out from the body, were no small hindrance in warfare; and in fact it is because they have been deprived of their breasts that they are called by the Greeks Amazons.

As mythology relates, their home was on an island which, because it was in the west, was called Hespera, and it lay in the marsh Tritonis. This marsh was near the ocean which surrounds the earth and received its name from a certain river Triton which emptied into it; and this marsh was also near Ethiopia and that mountain by the shore of the ocean which is the highest of those in the vicinity and impinges upon the ocean and is called by the Greeks Atlas. The island mentioned above was of great size and full of fruit-bearing trees of every kind, from which the natives secured their food. It contained also a multitude of flocks and herds, namely, of goats and sheep, from which the possessors received milk and meat for their sustenance; but grain the nation used not at all because the use of this fruit of the earth had not yet been discovered among them.

The Amazons, then, the account continues, being a race superior in valor and eager for war, first of all subdued all the cities on the island except the one called Mene, which was considered to be sacred and was inhabited by Ethiopian Ichthyophagi, and was also subject to great eruptions of fire and possessed a multitude of the precious stones which the Greeks call anthrax, sardion, and smaragdos; and after this they subdued many of the neighboring Libyans and nomad tribes, and founded within the marsh Tritonis a great city which they named Cherronesus after its shape.

54. Setting out from the city of Cherronesus, the account continues, the Amazons embarked upon great ventures, a longing having come over them to invade many parts of the inhabited world. The first people against whom they advanced, according to the tale, was the Atlantians, the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities; it was among them, we are told, that mythology places the birth of the gods, in the regions which lie along the shore of the ocean, in this respect agreeing with those among the Greeks who relate legends, and about this we shall speak in detail a little later.

Now the queen of the Amazons, Myrina, collected, it is said, an army of thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, since they favored to an unusual degree the use of cavalry in their wars. For protective devices they used the skins of large snakes, since Libya contains such animals of incredible size, and for offensive weapons, swords and lances; they also used bows and arrows, with which they struck not only when facing the enemy but also when in flight, by shooting backwards at their pursuers with good effect. Upon entering the land of the Atlantians they defeated in a pitched battle the inhabitants of the city of Cerne, as it is called, and making their way inside the walls along with the fleeing enemy, they got the city into their hands; and desiring to strike terror into the neighboring peoples they treated the captives savagely, put to the sword the men from the youth upward, led into slavery the children and women, and razed the city.

But when the terrible fate of the inhabitants of Cerne became known among their fellow tribesmen, it is related that the Atlantians, struck with terror, surrendered their cities on terms of capitulation and announced that they would do whatever should be commanded them, and that the queen Myrina, bearing herself honorably towards the Atlantians, both established friendship with them and founded a city to bear her name in place of the city which had been razed; and in it she settled both the captives and any native who so desired. Whereupon the Atlantians presented her with magnificent presents and by public decree voted to her notable honors, and she in return accepted their courtesy and in addition promised that she would show kindness to their nation.

a gorgonAnd since the natives were often being warred upon by the Gorgons, as they were named, a folk which resided upon their borders, and in general had that people lying in wait to injure them, Myrina, they say, was asked by the Atlantians to invade the land of the afore-mentioned Gorgons. But when the Gorgons drew up their forces to resist them a mighty battle took place in which the Amazons, gaining the upper hand, slew great numbers of their opponents and took no fewer than three thousand prisoners; and since the rest had fled for refuge into a certain wooded region, Myrina undertook to set fire to the timber, being eager to destroy the race utterly, but when she found that she was unable to succeed in her attempt she retired to the borders of her country.

55. Now as the Amazons, they go on to say, relaxed their watch during the night because of their success, the captive women, falling upon them and drawing the swords of those who thought they were conquerors, slew many of them; in the end, however, the multitude poured in about them from every side and the prisoners fighting bravely were butchered one and all. Myrina accorded a funeral to her fallen comrades on three pyres and raised up three great heaps of earth as toms, which are called to this day "Amazon Mounds". But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya, since he felt that it would ill accord with his resolve to be the benefactor of the whole race of mankind if he should suffer any nations to be under the rule of women. The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder.

As for Myrina, the account continues, she visited the larger part of Libya, and passing over into Egypt she struck a treaty of friendship with Horus, the son of Isis, who was king of Egypt at that time, and then, after making war to the end upon the Arabians and slaying many of the, she subdued Syria; but when the Cilicians came out with presents to meet her and agreed to obey her commands, she left those free who yielded to her of their free will and for this reason there are called to this day the "Free Cilicians". She also conquered in war the races in the region of the Taurus, peoples of outstanding courage, and descended through Greater Phrygia to the sea; then she won over the land lying along the coast and fixed the bounds of her campaign at the Caicus River. And selecting in the territory which she had won by arms sites well suited for the founding of cities, she built a considerable number of them and founded one which bore her own name, but the others she named after the women who held the most important commands, such as Cyme, Pitana, and Priene.

These, then are the cities she settled along the sea, but others, and a larger number, she planted in the regions stretching towards the interior. She seized also some of the islands, and Lesbos in particular, on which she founded the city of Mitylene, which was named after her sister who took part in the campaign. After that, while subduing some of the rest of the islands, she was caught in a storm, and after she had offered up prayers for her safety to the Mother of the Gods, she was carried to one of the uninhabited islands; this island, in obedience to a vision which she beheld in her dreams, she made sacred to this goddess, and set up altars there and offered magnificent sacrifices. She also gave it the name of Samothrace, which means, when translated into Greek, "sacred island," although some historians say that it was formerly called Samos and was then given the name of Samothrace by Thracians who at one time dwelt on it. However, after the Amazons had returned to the continent, the myth relates, the Mother of the Gods, well pleased with the island, settled in it certain other people, and also her own sons, who are known by the name of Corybantes--who their father was is handed down in their rites as a matter not to be divulged; and she established the mysteries which are now celebrated on the island and ordained by law that the sacred area should enjoy the right of sanctuary.

In these times, they go on to say, Mopsus the Thracian, who had been exiled by Lycurgus, the king of the Thracians, invaded the land of the Amazons with an army composed of fellow-exiles, and with Mopsus on the campaign was also Sipylus the Scythian, who had likewise been exiled from that part of Scythia which borders upon Thrace. There was a pitched battle, Sipylus and Mopsus gained the upper hand, and Myrina, the queen of the Amazons, and the larger part of the rest of her army were slain. In the course of the years, as the Thracians continued to be victorious in their battles, the surviving Amazons finally withdrew again into Libya. And such was the end, as the myth relates, of the campaign which the Amazons of Libya made.

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:21:07 pm
Chronos

Member
Member # 2051

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   posted 02-02-2006 12:26 PM                       
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The account of Ammianus Marcellinus:
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/ammianus.html

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Book 15:
6. haec augente vulgatius fama tantum aberat, ut proderet quisquam visa nocturna, ut aegre homines dormisse sese praesentibus faterentur externis, maerebantque docti quidam, quod apud Atlanteos nati non essent, ubi memorantur somnia non videri, quod unde eveniat rerum scientissimis relinquamus.

More common the rumour only was being away these with the increasing, in order that the any was projecting the nocturnal visions, in order that scarcely the men to have slept with the present outward himself were admiting, and the learned certain were bewailing, because at Atlanteuses the sons might be not, where are remembered the dreams not to be seen, which from where happens with the most knowing of the things we relinquish.


Book 17:
7... And therefore Neptune of the moist nature the power [Ennosigaeon] and Sisichthona of the poet the ancients and the theologians have called.

They happen but with the manners of the lands of the movement four.

Or indeed the heavings are, which the ground within encouraging up defeat the most huge masses, as in Asia has escaped Deluses and with Hiera and Anaph and Rhodus, Ophiusa and Pelagia more ahead ages said often, with the gold coin formerly with the rain overspread, and with Eleusina in Boeotia and at Tyrrenuses Vulcan and the more islands;

Or the earthquakes which the limit destroying and slanting the cities the buildings and the mountains smooth out;

Or the earthquakes which more grand movement sudden with the revealed [uoratrinis] devour the parts of the lands, as in sea Atlanticus to Europaeus with the circle more spacious the St. island and in Crisaeus bending with Helic and plough beam and in Ciminia to Italy passed with the part the town Saccumum towards deep Erebuses the openings with the eternal darknesses are hidden.

Between these three species the lands of the movements [mycematiae] with the noise threatening are heard with the loose the elements with the bonds besides jump even fall back with the collapsing lands.

S/he/it is indeed then necessary just as with the of a bull to resound with the lowings the noises and the earthly roars.

But hence towards began.


Book 29:
25. Primo intro vocatus post interrogatiunculas leves Pergamius, a Palladio, ut dictum est, proditus quaedam inprecationibus praescisse nefariis, sicut erat inpendio eloquentior et in verba periculosa proiectus, inter ambigentes iudices, quid prius quaeri debeat quidve posterius, dicere audacter exorsus, multa hominum milia quasi consciorum sine fine strependo fundebat, modo non ab extremo Atlante magnorum criminum arguendos poscens aliquos exhiberi.

With the first Pergamius I enter the urgent calls after the trivial inter-minor questions, from Palladius, as the saying is, projected certain with the imprecations criminal to have got to know beforehand, as with the expense more eloquent was being and into the dangerous words precipitate, between hesitating judges, which the earlier times ought to be asked or why more following, to say boldly began, the much was pouring the thousands of the men as if of the accomplices without boundary resounding, but not from the most outer Atlant of the great indictments proving asking some to be presented.

quo, ut consarcinante nimis ardua, morte multato, aliisque gregatim post illum occisis, ad ipsius Theodori causam quasi ad Olympici certaminis pulverum pervenitur.

Where, as with the stitching together exceedingly the steep places, with the death with the punished, and with the other in flocks after that with the killed, towards the cause of him/it/theirself Theodorus as if about of the Olympan contest of the dusts is reached.

[ 02-02-2006, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Chronos ]

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:21:39 pm
Chronos

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   posted 02-02-2006 12:35 PM                       
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Is it any wonder the material seems confused..?

Both Herodotus and Diodorus clearly describe an Atlantis that exists in northwest Africa, perhaps in Morocco.

If I'm reading the third passage correctly. Marcellinious seems to be describing the death throes of the island in the Atlantic we traditionally imagine to be Atlantis.

Diodorus' Atlanteans certainly bear no resemblance to those that Plato describes. Plato's Atlanteans were, or course, a military powerhouse that made war upon the whole Mediterranean. Diodorus describes an Atlantean people not only easily defeated but begging for help from those who defeated them against a third enemy.

It has always been my belief that the Diodorus account either describes a different people or a people weakened many years after the events of Timaeus and Critias. None of the writings exactly corroborate each other. However, having said that, I think it's important to re-visit as many of these purported Atlantic references that we can find in order to find one that does.

--------------------
The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:22:09 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-03-2006 02:48 PM                       
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TA-TENEN-birth of the primordial hill of creation, ATLANTIS.

In Reality part of Atlantis is "Egytpa" those are our Great Twin Pyramids and Lions all over the lands, which we will find many Atlantean cities around the World changed to the Pharaoh and "RAM" heads of Aries after the loss of our Son of Man Dec 10th,3474.bC.

ATLANTIS was the ONLY TRULY ADVANCED civilization.

Atlantis is a legend that was preserved by the Egyptians and Greeks from 9570.bC, according to the Atlantean Script of Solon, a Greek Statesman, who received this knowledge of Atlantis, upon his visit to Sais, Egypt and the Libyan Pharaoh, Amasis II, ca 570.bC, and Wedjahor-Resne, the Egyptian Priest, Physician and Naval Admiral. Unknown to the Greeks, it was forgotten and retained from Egypt as Plato's, Timaeus tells us, written in 360.bC. Chalcidius, a Latin Scribe, would preserve Plato's work from his original notebook, (based on my study of Oxford's, Ms.Digby slides of the originals and translated by myself) and later penned perhaps in Syracuse, Sicily, around 350.aD.

To better understand Atlantis, it is easier to view the Timaeus as the original mention of the Legend which was cleverly "Hidden" in the Astrological account of life's origins and dynamics of Physics, which takes us back to the said 9000 years prior, to the seed of He-Phaestus and Athena.

Later, the more vivid account of Atlantis, it's social structure and technological achievements such as Triremes, Chariots, Aqua-ducts, Canals, Temples, irrigation, Ten Twin Kings and such, was clarified by Plato's account of Critias, also thought to be around the same era of 360.bC, which takes us into the Bronze Age and no later than 1500.bC to Deukalion's Flood and The Battle of Ares (Etruscan Atlanteans).

In reality, the two works PRESERVED by Plato, Timaeus and Critias, tell us of a realistic time span of 9570.bC - 1500.bC.

This legend has been doctrine into the human mind as a Myth for 2575 years, simply for lack of verification of our Royal City, which vanished from the Great Flood around 6482.bC. Truth of Life, is that Atlanteans have never completely vanished and were the major contributors to our advanced technological World of Today. Simply clarified, any lands touching upon the Atlantic, are in fact Atlantean lands, where Atlanteans still exist, including America, S. America, Africa, England, Scotland, Portugal, Spain, France, and Italy, NW Africa, and any and all Atlantic Islands, to this very day in our year 2005 aD, and to our future. The regions of NW Africa, Tarraconensis Iberia, and all mid European and mid African lands, are the highest accounts of names peculiar to ATLANTIS, and their etymological roots derived from Linear A, the by product of Azilian and Glozel scripts of our FIRST ALPHABET, some 12000 years ago. (twelve thousand).Another prime example is the ancient name for Mauretania, which was known as Gualata, such as Iberia was known as Gaul or Gallia to France, or the Guanches in the Canary Islands and many rivers of Gua or Gades, Spain and Agades, Mauretania. The reason for these names for those territories around the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar), is simply because of the great mouth or "Throat" of the Mediterranean which engulfed the Waters of Neptune's Atlantic Ocean. Ga or Gua, in it's deepest form is a body part, specificaly, throat. The Phoenicians, commonly attributed Ga or Gad to indicate animal body parts.

The Atlanteans are known to have arrived through the "Throat" of the Mediterranean from the Largest Island in the Atlantic.

To exemplify the uniqueness of languages ,and how Gualata is a derivitive of Atlantis , we only need to look at the translation from old Boustrephedon, for the word GUALATA, which would be ATALAUG, backwards. Originaly, the u was a y, and the G, was a C in our language histories that reveals the importance of ATALAYC. Atalais, Atalis, Atlas, Atlantis.

This is another test upon the word Atlantis which in itself stands provenance and is composed of many true and hidden meanings that are indicative of refuting any falsehood associated with the word Atlantis. In short, after 2575 years of denial, it's time the World ACCEPTS THE FACT AND VERIFICATION, that ATLANTEANS, are in fact living, breathing Humans, such as myself who comes from these mid Atlantic Waters.

For now, here is Truth of your Legend and ongoing research into Science and Spirit Forever....Riven. www.mts.net/~goldlion


The Secret of the Books of Herodotus by Riven.

9:05 PM 1/12/2006

Herodotus of Halicarnassus.
440.bC.

Book 1) Clio
Book 2) Euterpe
Book 3) Thalia
Book 4) Melpomene
Book 5) Terpsichore
Book 6) Erato
Book 7) Polymnia
Book 8) Urania
Book 9) Calliope

Book 10) Where is it? Someone has it.

Herodotus was writing in the era of memory of the 10 Kings (after 1500.bC,Deukalion), and he definitely was not writing about the Ennead....

Clioeuterpethaliamelpomeneterpsichoreeratopolymniauraniacalliope.

Epoillacainaruainmylopotareerohcispretenemoplemailahtepretueoilc.

Epo- illa- caina- rua- in- mylo- potare- ero- h(ae)cis- pretene- moplema(Mopsus)- ila- hete- pretueo.


Epic by that way fallen (Vulcan?)to waste/sorrow into this MYLO > Mysian/ drunken wanderer with his faults,to lie before the Oracle broken Secret Society greatly prized.

Cassell's New Latin Dictionary, 1959 edition....from Ja.

By SaJaRa Riven Jan 12,2006.aD (8488aJA.)


RETURN THE 10TH BOOK OF MYLO....Please, it is a piece of our History, along with the Books of Alexandria....Thankyou.

TAHLA LION DELTA NILE EGYPT LOOKING SOUTH

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Tahla%20Lion%203%20Riven%2006.jpg

ATLANTIS I PRE 6482.bC;

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Kingdom%20of%20Atlantis%20I%20by%20Riven05.JPG

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Atlantis%20I%20%206500bC%20Riven%2005.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Alluvial%20Atlantis%20100000bC%20Riven%2005.JPG

OCTOBER 31ST,6482.bC, THE EARTH SHIFTS 45 DEGREES GREAT FLOOD OF NOA

THE MIGRATION TO ATLANTIS II,THE WEST NILE AFTER 6482.bC;

ATALANTES CULTURES PROTECTED BY MT.ATLAS AND TOWNSHIPS DEVELOP IN ALGERIA AND TUNISIA, LAKE TRITONIS FORTRESS OF THOTH AND GEB,SICILY,MALTA GIGANTJA,CRETE .

SPIRAL CULTURES DEVELOP.

THE FLOODED "NEW" MIDDLE EARTH AND ATLANTIS II;

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/World%20Alluvial%20Flood%20of%20Avila%20Atlantis%206482bC%20by%20Riven05.JPG

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Pre-6482bC%20Flood%20Tritonis%20WestNile%20Riven05.JPG

"past the broken pillars and Erithraea"

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Broken%20Pillars%20of%20Eritrea%20Riven05.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Atlantis%20II%20Cade%20Avila%20by%20Riven05.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Avila%20Atlantis%20II%20Ocean%20View%20Riven05.jpg

BUR ATAL(h)ITAN Develops after TAHLA,BUTO and SAIS.

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/AtlanteanTarxien%20City%20Bur%20atalhitan%20Egypt.jpg

Some Evidence;

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Fallen%20Atlantean%20Kings%20on%20Narmer%20Palette%20Riven05.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Museum37%20Gebel-el-Arak%20Knife%20Ship%203500bC.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Orichalcum%20%20Lion%20Bracelet%20Etruscan%201000bC%20Riven05.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Dragon%20Sceptre%20of%20Ampheres%2010%20Lions%20%20Louvre%20%20Riven05.jpg

TAHLA with the circular apartments, the race track and the canal;

http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/Atlantis%20Tahla%20Delta%20Egypt%20Riven05.jpg


IT STILL AMAZES ME WHY PEOPLE DENY THE TRUTH OF ATLANTIS-RIVEN


BEYOND ANY DOUBTS......VERIFIED.


I HAVEN'T EVEN INCLUDED THE TARRACONENSIS SHIELDS AND A WEALTH OF ATLANTEAN CHRONOLOGIES FROM EUROPA!


ATLANTIS IS REVEALED PEOPLE, WHETHER YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE OR NOT.


YOU'LL COME AROUND. 


PLATO WAS NOT A LIAR,NOR SOCRATES NOR SOLON FOR THE MATTER.....


WE DO KNOW WHO THE LIARS WERE AND STILL ARE THOUGH.....

So Sayet a True Atlantean King....

[ 02-03-2006, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:22:35 pm
I_am_that_I_am

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   posted 02-03-2006 07:57 PM                       
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Questions on this Riven...

quote:
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 The Secret of the Books of Herodotus by Riven.

9:05 PM 1/12/2006

Herodotus of Halicarnassus.
440.bC.

Book 1) Clio
Book 2) Euterpe
Book 3) Thalia
Book 4) Melpomene
Book 5) Terpsichore
Book 6) Erato
Book 7) Polymnia
Book 8) Urania
Book 9) Calliope

Book 10) Where is it? Someone has it.

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Are books 1-10 the "secret" books ?
IF not, are books 1-10 as you have them posted the order they were written in ?

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

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Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:23:03 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-03-2006 08:11 PM                       
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My impression I_AM, is that the 10th Book would be the "Secret Book".

Yes, they are in order;

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.html


Then again, there is a reason to ask such a mundane question isn't there?

[ 02-03-2006, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:23:59 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-03-2006 08:37 PM                       
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Here's another interesting reference to Akhenaten Faith;


http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/zannanza_affair.htm

The Zannanza affair

The account of Mursili II

While my father [1] was in the country of Karkemish [5], he sent Lupakkish and Teshub[?]- Zalmash to the country of Amqa. They left; they ravaged the country of Amqa and brought back to my father prisoners and cattle large and small.
When the people of Misra [2] learned of the destruction of Amqa, they were afraid, for to make matters worse their master, Nibhururia [3] had just died and the widowed queen[4] of Egypt sent an ambassador to my father and wrote to him in these terms: "My husband is dead and I have no son. People say that you have many sons [or that your sons are adult]. If you send me one of your sons he will become my husband for it is repugnant to me to take one of my servants [subjectsl to husband."
When my father learned this he called together the council of the great [and said to them] : "Since the most ancient times such a thing has never happened before."
He decided to send Hattu-Zittish, the chamberlain, [saying] "Go, bring me information worthy of belief; they may try to deceive me; and as to the possibility that they may have a prince, bring me back information worthy of belief."
While Hattu-Zittish was absent on the soil of Egypt, my father vanquished the city of Karkemish ...The ambassador of Egypt, the lord Hanis, came to him.
Because my father had instructed Hattu-Zittish when he went to the country of Egypt as follows:
"Perhaps they have a prince, they may be trying to deceive me and do not really want one of my sons to reign over them" ;
The Egyptian queen answered my father in a letter in these words: "Why do you say 'They are trying to deceive me?' If I had a son, should I write to a foreign country in a manner humiliating to me and to my country? You do not believe me and you even say so to me! He who was my husband is dead and I have no son. Should I then perhaps take one of my servants and make of him my husband? I have written to no other country, I have written [only] to you. They say that you have many sons. Give me one of your sons and he will be my husband and lord of the land of Egypt."
Because my father was generous, he granted the lady's request and decided to send his son.
DesRoches-Noblecourt Tutankhamen 1963, pp. 275-6
The last, much destroyed section has been interpreted as claiming that the Egyptians killed the prince and attacked Hatti's frontier. Ay, in a draft letter written by Suppililiuma is quoted as having denied any involvement

Your son has died [but] I have done [him no ha]rm [6]
The Hittite king expresses his suspicions
... perhaps you have also killed my son ...[6]

Much remains unclear in this affair.
Who was the dead pharaoh? The cuneiform name Nibkhururia of the text might just possibly refer to Akhenaten, generally called Napkhururia, though Tutankhamen Nebkheprure, transliterated as Nibkhururia, is more likely [8]
The identity of the Egyptian queen is unproven; Ankhesenamen seems to fit best.
The name of the Hittite prince, Zannanza, is speculative: A tablet in bad shape has been found on which Suppililiuma laments the murder of a person named Zannanza, but no mention is made that this is his son.
The cause of death of the Hittite prince is also open to doubt: The Egyptians just acknowledge his death, while the Hittites speak of killing, but even they don't claim to know what happened.



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[1] father: Suppiliuma
[2] Misra: Semitic name for Egypt (Hebrew Mitzraim, Arabic Misr)
[3] Nibhururia: possibly Nebkheprure, i.e. Tutankhamen
[4] queen: in Hittite Dakhamunzu seemingly from the Egyptian TA Hm.t nsw (Tahemnesu), i.e. the King's Wife.
[5] Karkemish: The Mitanni had attacked a Hittite contingent near Karkemish in 1354 BCE. A Hittite army under Telebinu, a son of Suppililiuma, was sent and conquered most of the region. After Telebinu had returned to Kummani, the Mitanni tried to retake the conquered lands and attacked the Hittites led by Luppaki. The Egyptians meanwhile conducted raids in the region of Kadesh, and some local Syrian kingdoms tried to shake off Hittite control. The Hittites under prince Arnuwanda laid siege to Karkemish, while another army under Luppaki and Tarhunda-Zalma was sent south into Amqa. Suppililiuma joined his Karkemish army when he received the letter the Egyptian queen.
[6] Translations from the Dutch by Aayko Eyma [7]
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Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:24:37 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-03-2006 08:38 PM                       
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Predynastic Period c.3500-3100 BC

...Early Dynastic Period c.3100-2686 BC ...

'Scorpion' Narmer

1st Dynasty c...........3100-2890 BC

Menes (Hor-Aha)
Djer
Wadj (Djet)
Den
Anendjib
Semerkhet
Qa'a

2nd Dynasty c...........2890-2686 BC

Hotepsekhemwy
Raneb
Nynetjer
Seth-Peribsen
Khasekhemwy

....Old Kingdom c.2686-2181 BC......

3rd Dynasty c...........2686-2613 BC

Sanakhte (Nebka) (2688-2668)
Djoser (2668-2649)
Sekhemkhet (Djoser Teti) (2649-2641)
Khaba (2641-2637)
Huni (2637-2613)

4th Dynasty c...........2613-2494 BC

Snofru (2613-2589)
Khufu (Cheops) (2585-2566)
Djedefre (2566-2558)
Khafre (Rekhaf) (2558-2532)
Menkaure (Mykerinos) (2532-2514)
Shepseskaf (2514-2494)

5th Dynasty c...........2494-2345 BC

Userkaf (2494-2487)
Sahure (2487-2475)
Neferirkare (2475-2455)
Shepseskare (2455-2448)
Raneferef (2448-2445)
Niuserre (2445-2421)
Menkauhor (2421-2413)
Djedkare (2413-2381)
Unas (Wenis) (2381-2345)

6th Dynasty c...........2345-2181 BC

Teti (2345-2313)
Pepi I (Meryre) (2313-2279)
Merenre (2279-2270)
Pepi II (Neferkare) (2279-2181)

First Intermediate Period c.2181-2040 BC

7/8th Dynasty c..........2181-2173 BC

Wadjkare
Qakare Iby

9/10th Dynasty c.........2160-2040 BC

Meryibre Khety
Merykare
Kanrferre
Nebkaure Akhtoy

11th Dynasty c..........2133-1991 BC

Intef I (Inyotef I) (Sehertawy) (2133-2123)
Intef II (Inyotef II) (Wahankh) (2123-2074)
Intef III (Inyotef III) (Nakhtnebtepnefer) (2074-2066)
Mentuhotep I ? (2066-2040)

....Middle Kingdom c...2040-1786 BC]...

11th Dynasty

Mentuhotep II (Nebhepetre) (2040-2010)
Mentuhotep III (Sankhkare) (2010-1998)
Mentuhotep IV (Nebtawyre) (1998-1991)

12th Dynasty c............1991-1786 BC

Amenemhet I (Sehetepibre) (1991-1962)
Senusret I (Kheperkare)(1962-1917)
Amenemhet II (Nubkaure) (1917-1882)
Senusret II (Khakhperre) (1882-1878)
Senusret III (Khakaure) (1878-1841)
Amenemhet III (Nimaatre) (1841-1796)
Amenemhet IV (Maakherure) (1796-1790)
Queen Sobeknerfu (Neferusobek) (1790-1786)
Second Intermediate Period 1786-1567 BC

13th Dynasty (about 70 kings) 1786-1633 BC

Wegaf (Khawitawire) (1783 - 1779)
Amenemhet V (Sekhemkare)
Harnedjheriotef (Hetepibre)
Sobekhotep I (Khaankhre) (ca.1750)
Hor
Amenemhet VII (Sedjefakare)
Sobekhotep II (Sekhemre-Khutawy) (ca.1745)
Khendjer
Sobekhotep III
Neferhotep I (Khasekhemre) (1723-1713)
Sobekhotep IV (Merihotepre, Khaneferre) (1713)
Iaib (1713-1703)
Ay (Merneferre) (1703-1680)
Neferhotep II
and eight more kings

14th Dynasty ..............1786-c.1603 BC

Nehesy

15th Dynasty 1674-1567 BC

Hyksos kings

Sheshi (Salitis?)
Yakubber (Bnon?)
Khyan (Apachnan)
Apepi I (Apophis)
Apepi II (Khamudi?) (c.1542-1532)

16th Dynasty................1684-1567 BC

Hyksos kings

Anather
Yakobaam ?

17th Dynasty c..............1650-1567

Sobekemsaf I (Sekhemre Wadjkhau)
Sobekemsaf II
Intef VII
Tao I (Seakhtenre)
Tao II (Sekenenre)
Kamose (Wadjkheperre)

......New Kingdom 1570-1084 BC........

18th Dynasty ...............1570-1320 BC

Ahmose I (Nebpehtyre) (1570-1546)
Amenhotep I (Djeserkare) (1546-1527)
Thutmose I (Akheperkare) (1527-1515)
Thutmose II (Akheperenre) (1515-1498)
Queen Hatshepsut (Maatkare) (1498-1483)
Thutmose III (Menkhepere) (1504-1450)
Amenhotep II (Akheperure) (1450-1412)
Thutmose IV (Men-khepru-Re) (1412-1402)
Amenhotep III (Nebmaatre) (1402-1364)

Amenhotep IV/AKHENATEN (Neferkheperure) (1350-1334)

Smenkhkare (Ankhheperure) (1334)
Tutankhamen (Nebkheperoure) (1334-1325)
Ay (Kheperkheperure) (1325-1321)
Horemheb (Djeserkheperure)

19th Dynasty ..................1320-1200 BC

Ramses I (Menpehtyre) (about 1320)
Seti I (Menmaatre) (c.1318-c.1304)
Ramses II (Usermaatre Setepenre) (1304-1237)
Merneptah (Baenre Meryamun) (c.1236-1223)
Seti II Userkheperure Meryamun (c.1223-1217)
Amenmes Menmire Setepenre
Merneptah Siptah Sekhaenre/Akhenre (c.1208-1202)
Queen Twosret (c.1202-1200)

20th Dynasty ..................1200-1084 BCE

Sethnakhte Userkhaure (1200-1197)
Ramses III Usermaatre-Meryamun (1197-1166)
Ramses IV User/Heqamaatre-Setepenamun (1166-1159)
Ramses V Usermaatre-Sekheperenre (1159-1156)
Ramses VI Nebmaatre-Meryamun (1156-1148)
Ramses VII Usermaatre-Setepenre-Meryamun (1148-1140)
Ramses VIII Usermaatre-Akhenamun (1140-1139)
Ramses IX Neferkare-Setepenre (1139-1117)
Ramses X Khepermaatre-Setepenptah (1117-1113)
Ramses XI Menmaatre-Setepenptah (1113-1084)

..Third Intermediate Period 1084-747 BCE
....

High Priests (Thebes)

Contemporaries of the 21st dynasty at Tanis

Herihor (Siamun Hemnetjertepyenamun) (1080-1074)
Piankh (1074-1070)
Pinedjem I (Meryamun Khakheperre Setepenamun) (1070-1032)
Masaherta (1054-1046)
Djedkhonsefankh (1046-1045)
Menkheperre (1045-992)
Smendes II (992-990)
Pinedjem II (990-969)
Psusennes (969-959)

21st Dynasty

Tanite 1085-945 BC
Nesbanebded (Hedjkheperre Setepenre) (Smendes I) (1085-1059)
Nephercheres (Neferkare-hekawise Amenemnisu-meramun) (1058-1054)
Psusennes I (Akheperre Setepenamun) (1039-1000)
Amenemope (Usimare Setepenamun) (1000-991)
Osorkon the elder (Osochor) (991-985)
Psinaches (985-976)
Psusennes II (Titkheprure) (976-962)
Siamun (Nutekheperre Setepenamun Siamun Meramun) (962-945)

22nd Dynasty

Bubastite 945-c.730 BC
Sheshonq I (Hedjkheperre-Setepenre) (945-924)
Osorkon I (Sekhemkheperre-Setepenre) (924–889)
Sheshonq II (Hekakheperre-Setepenre) (ca. 890)
Takelot I (Usimare) (889–874)
Osorkon II (Usimare-Setepenamun) (874–850)
Harsiese (ca. 865)
Takelot II (Hedjkheperre-Setepenre) (850–825)
Sheshonq III (Usimare-Setepenamun) (825–773)
Pamai (773–767)
Sheshonq V (Akheperre) (767–730)
Osorkon IV (730–712)

23rd Dynasty

Tanite c.817-730 BC
Pedibastet ( Meryamun Usermaatre Setepenre)(818–793)
Iuput I (ca. 800)
Sheshonq IV (Usermaatre Meryamun) (793–787)
Osorkon III (Usermaatre Setepenamun) (787–759)
Takelot III (Usermaatre) (764–757)
Rudamon (Usermaatre Setepenamun) (757–754)
Iuput II (Meryamunsibastet Usermaatre) (754–712)
Nimlot (ca. 740)
Peftjauabastet (Nefer-ka-re) (740–725)
Thutemhat (ca. 720)
Pedinemti (ca. 700)


24th Dynasty .................720-714 BC

Shepsesre Tefnakht (724-717)
Wahkare (Bakenrenef) (717-712)
Late Dynastic Period 747-332 BC

25th Dynasty .................716-656 BC

Piye (Usimare Sneferre) (Piankhi) (716-711)
Shabaka (Neferkare Wahibre) (711-697)
Shebitku (Djedkaure Menkheperre) (697-689)
Taharka (Khunefertemre) (689-663)
Tanutamun (Bakare) (663-656)

26th Dynasty..................664-525 BC

Necho I (664-656)
Psammetic I (Wahemibre Psamtek) (656-609)
Necho II (Wahemibre Neko) (609-594)
Psammetic II (Neferibre Psamtek) (594-587)
Wahibre (Haaibre) (Apries) (587-569)
Ahmose II (Khnemibre) (Amasis) (569-526)
Psammetic III (Ankhkaenre) (526)

27th Dynasty...................525-404 BC

Cambyses II (525-522)
Darius I (521-486)
Xerxes (486-465)
Artaxerxes I (465-424)
Darius II (423-405)
Artaxerxes II (405-359)

28th Dynasty .................404-399 BC

Amenirdis (Amyrtaeus) (404-399)

29th Dynasty .................399-380 BC

Nefaarud I (Nepherites I) (399-393)
Psammuthis (Userre Setepenptah Pasherienmut) (ca. 392)
Hakor (Khnemmaere-setpenkhnum) (Achoris) (392-380)
Nefaarud II (Nepherites II) (380)

30th Dynasty ..................380-343 BC

Nakhtnebef (Kheperkare) (Nectanebo I) (380-362)
Djedhor (362-360)
Nekhtharehbe (Snedjemibre-setpenanhur) (Nectanebo II) (360-343)

31st Dynasty ..................343-332 BC

Artaxerxes III (343-338)
Arses (338-336)
Darius III (336-332)

The Graeco-Roman Period

Macedonian Kings

Alexander the Great (332-323)
Philip III Arrhidaeus (323-317)
Alexander IV Aegus (317-311)
Ptolemaic Dynasty 323-30 BC
Ptolemy I Soter (305-282)
Ptolemy II Philadelphus (284-246)
Arsinoe II (278-270)
Ptolemy III Euergetes I (246-222)
Bernice II (246-221)
Ptolemy IV Philopator (222-205)
Ptolemy V Epiphanes (205-180)
Harwennefer (205-199)
Ankhwennefer (199-186)
Cleopatra I (194-176)
Ptolemy VI Philometor (180-164)
Cleopatra II (175-115)
Ptolemy VII Neos Philopator (164-145)
Ptolemy VIII Euergetes II (145)
Cleopatra III (142-101)
Ptolemy IX Soter II (116-80)
Ptolemy X Alexander I (107-88)
Ptolemy XI Alexander II (80)
Ptolemy XII Neos Dionysos (80-51)
Queen Bernice IV (58-55)
Ptolemy XIII (51-47)
Queen Cleopatra VII (51-30)
Ptolemy XIV (47-44)
Ptolemy XV (44-30)

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/dynasties.htm

[ 02-03-2006, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Riven ]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:25:10 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-05-2006 06:27 AM                       
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.......................................MANETHO'S MISTAKE.......


1074 Chapters x 47.38 years = 50,886.12 years for the Old testament in time with the "Apex" of Modern Cro-Magnon. Apparently the Human Brain reached it's Apex some 200,000 years ago according to Science and DNA studies.


331.66 years after Creation Earth Shifts 45 Degrees.

379.04 years after Creation Earth is Reborn.


47.38 years difference


"And it rained for forty days and nights".


More like 47.38 years and nights.


Interesting how they jive.

Okay, so according to my Bible Chronology, Greater than Manetho's Kings list, the Earth was created in 6813.66.bC.

If we consider a Chapter a day, and a day was 7.896 years, then @ 1074 Chapters = 8,480.304 years.

Less our 2005 years = 6475.3.bC.

Not bad, a mere 8.7 years difference to my 6482.bC date, the leap years probably add up the rest.


6813.66 - 331.66 = 6482.bC

6813.66 - 6475.3 = 338.36


Now let's rewrite Manetho properly, with Truth for we now know 3474.bC is an 885 year difference to Snoferu’s time to 2589.bC.
This is also in the range of Carbon dating errors indexing 450-700 years +/-.


MANETHO KINGS KRONOS ……………………………………. RIVEN KINGS KRONOS …………………………….

Predynastic Period c.3500-3100 BC ………………………………… 4385 -3985.bC …………………………


Early Dynastic Period c.3100-2686 bC .…………………………… 3985-3571.bC ………………………..

'Scorpion' Narmer …………………………………………………(Who is also MENES-Riv.)

1st Dynasty c...........3100-2890 BC ………………………………….3985-3775.bC …………………………

(NOTICE HOW VAGUE THE CHRONOLOGIES ARE FOR THE PERIOD BETWEEN 3000 AND 3500.bC, yet they have THE PALERMO STONE WITH AT LEAST 20 KINGS PRIOR TO MENES which peaks to about 5000.bC.-RIV.)

Menes (Hor-Aha)
Djer
Wadj (Djet)
Den
Anendjib
Semerkhet
Qa'a

2nd Dynasty c...........2890-2686 BC ………………………………….3775-3571.bC

Hotepsekhemwy
Raneb
Nynetjer
Seth-Peribsen
Khasekhemwy

....Old Kingdom c.2686-2181 BC....………………………….Old Kingdom……3571-3066.bC

3rd Dynasty c...........2686-2613 BC ………………………………….3571-3553.bC

Sanakhte (Nebka) (2688-2668)
Djoser (2668-2649)
Sekhemkhet (Djoser Teti) (2649-2641)
Khaba (2641-2637)
Huni (2637-2613)

4th Dynasty c...........2613-2494 BC

Snofru (2613-2589)…………………………………………………….3498-3474.bC…………………..
Khufu (Cheops) (2585-2566)………SOLAR TEMPLE’S.…………3470-3451…………………..
Djedefre (2566-2558)………………………………………………….3451-3443………………….
Khafre (Rekhaf) (2558-2532)…………………………………………3443-3417………………….
Menkaure (Mykerinos) (2532-2514)…………………………………3417-3399………………….
Shepseskaf (2514-2494)

From Khufu henceforth, the Lunar Temples were changed to Solar Concealing the missing 885 years and his father’s Stain. So from this point, Khufu’s time is accepted by the people, which are accepted by us as 2585.bC.
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[R]..Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis..[R]

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:25:34 pm
 
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-06-2006 05:55 AM                       
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Check out the new look for Tribes of Atlantis;


http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/

Hope you like it. 
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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003 
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:25:59 pm
Riven

Member
Member # 1495

  posted 02-06-2006 08:44 PM                       
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Now that I have a little more breathing room, for now........


My main pique is to know the descriptions of the library by old authors just around or in it's days of glory.....


sorry to be putting it off through these last little hurricanes cast upon me......


Some author's say west side, some east side, some near the docks.......


For now I feel it's the East side in "Old Alexandria"......


let me know of any descriptions you may have as I will in return also....


Thanks much......


I still wonder if that circle west of the Great Pyramid in Roash was a library also....


strange lions, er I mean lines over there in Egypt, that's for sure.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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Posts: 4048 | From: Azores Atlantis Isles. | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:26:25 pm
 
Apondence Crawford

Member
Member # 2704

Member Rated:
   posted 02-07-2006 01:01 AM                       
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Excellent Egyptian chronology, Riven!
I've heard that the Library of Alexandria is actually covered by another building right now, the name of which escapes me, but I don't think anyone will be digging it up quite soon.

In any event, it's hard to imagine what might still be there after all this time. The Muslims may not have been the first to destroy the library, but they were apparently the ones to finally put it to rest. And yet, the Muslims of that time weren't as senseless as many seem to be today. I can't imagine that some of them didn't cart off some of the books there and the last sacred writings (even those that may have something to do with Atlantis), and place the works in their own libraries.
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Posts: 32 | Registered: Sep 2005
 


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:26:58 pm
Isis*

Member
Member # 2251

Member Rated:
   posted 02-07-2006 11:14 PM                       
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The Search for Eden
By Charles Alexander Moffat, 2002. Updated 2005.
History becomes Legend
Legend becomes Myth
Myth becomes a Disney Movie

The ancient hebrew word for Eden, Aten or Atlen, is almost identical to the Egyptian word for Atlantis, which lends to the belief that we're not searching for Eden... we're searching for Atlantis.

The origin of the Atlantis myth is Egypt, not Greece, but the myth is found in many religions around the world, sometimes combined with the Great Flood myth. The fact that the Israelites came from Egypt originally suggests they gained the Eden myth from an Egyptian source. It is the lost paradise of ancient lore, and therefore if a person has any chance of locating Atlantis or Eden, its best to use all the resources available: Myth, Bible, Oceanography, Linguistics, and even Geology.

PLATO’S ATLANTIS:

Atlantis was destroyed around 9650 BC, according to Plato via Solon via the Priests of Sais.

Plato is the key source, who recorded the tale in two of his books (Timaeus and Critias) told to him by his grandfather Solon.

Solon had travelled to Egypt circa 560 BC and learned the tale from a group of Egyptian Priests at Sais, which they obtained from ancient tablets and writings on columns within Egypt.

"In those far-away days that Ocean could be navigated, as there was an island outside the channel which your countrymen tell me you call the 'pillars of Heracles'. This island was larger than Libya and Asia together, and from it seafarers, in those times, could make their way to the others, and thence to the whole opposite continent, which encircles the true outer Ocean. (The waters within the channel just mentioned are manifestly a basin with a narrow entrance; what lies beyond it is the real Ocean, and it is land enclosing that Ocean which should rightly be called a Continent.)"

Plato described Atlantis as being ruled by ten kings before its demise.

In Egyptian mythology states there was originally 10 god-kings, who ruled in a foreign country. They were called Auriteans, but the actual pronunciation is unsure because hieroglyphs only approximate real sounds.

The Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) calls the same kings "Aleteans". Note this is 600 years before Plato was even born.

These same god-kings could be compared to various gods in Greek mythology.

Ancient texts (there are numerous versions of them in Egypt, Greece and Mesopotamia) refer to the 10 god-kings, and also list their replacements, which occurred at approximately 9850 BC. Some of the Egyptian texts also had maps of Atlantis, including its round capital city.

Athanasius Kircher (Jesuit priest, 1601-1680)’s 1665 map is based upon an older Egyptian version of the map, but also includes parts of North America in order to provide a better idea of the location. Various other reproductions of the map also exist.


http://www.lilithgallery.com/library/TheSearchforEden.html
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:27:26 pm
Isis*

Member
Member # 2251

Member Rated:
   posted 02-07-2006 11:15 PM                       
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The Greek Manetho translated the Egyptian king lists in 250 BC. Other direct sources are the king-list in the temple of Osiris at Abydos, the Palermo Stone (a Fifth Dynasty document) and the Turin Papyrus (a 19th Dynasty document).

After telling us that the total number of years covered by all the king-lists equals 36,525 (which, incidentally, agrees precisely with the period of Cro-Magnon Man), he continues: "the first series of princes was that of the Auritae (or the Aletae according to Sanchuniathon)." He calls this the rule of demi-gods. He follows this with a list of the Reigns of the Gods, starting with Ptah and Ra, and ending with Horus.

The list gives the comparable Greek gods/titans, Hephaestus and Helius, and ending again with Horus (a minor Greek deity. King Horus apparently ruled both Egypt and Greece at one point).

Manetho is very careful to point out that the first kings did not rule Egypt, but a foreign country.


PTAH . . . . Hephaestus
RA . . . . . . .Helius
SU . . . . . . . Agathodaemon
SEB. . . . . . Cronus
OSIRIS . . .Osiris
SET. . . . . . Typhon
HORUS. . . . . .
THOTH. . . . . .
MA . . . . . . . . .
HORUS. . . Horus
King Thoth is credited with inventing writing, wrote numerous books, and supposedly ruled on an “Island of Flame to the west”. The Book of the Dead contains some of his writing. The old Egyptian word for Cronos is “Seb”, which later became called Repha. This name appears in the Old Testament (Amos 5:26 and also Acts 7:43) as Rephan or Raiphan. The Hebrew word for giants/titans is Repha-im. In Greek myths, the Titans are the sons of Cronos.

In Greek myths, Zeus fought against Cronos and defeated the titans by throwing a ball of fire out of the sky. It burnt the land and boiled the sea. Upon Cronos defeat, Zeus imprisoned him at the bottom of the Ocean in Tartaros. According to Homer in 850 BC, Tartaros was located west of Gibraltar, under the Atlantic.

Plato describes the Atlanteans as being noble in the beginning, but becoming greedy, materialistic and warlike. Cronos had introduced law, cities and agriculture to the land. Zeus was Cronos’ son and was hidden on the Island of Crete, and eventually grew up to defeat him. He fought his father for ten years before being given “large bolts of lightning” that could shake the land itself and destroy whole cities.

According to Plato, the Atlanteans had their god-like appearances from Poseidon, who fell in love with Cleito, and built her a palace in Atlantis on a hill. They had 5 sets of twins, for which the eldest was called Atlas, and thus the name of the island/continent.
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:27:57 pm
Isis*

Member
Member # 2251

Member Rated:
   posted 02-07-2006 11:17 PM                       
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THE BIBLICAL ATLANTIS:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. . . . There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughter of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (heroes) which were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:1-2,4)

After which man grows extremely wicked and is eventually destroyed by a flood. The account in the Book of Enoch mentions the earth tilting on its axis during which the earth "labours and is violently shaken." (I Enoch LXIV. 1-3) Two of the most surprising (and mistranslated) verses in the Old Testament probably concerns Atlantis. The passage is found in the Book of Job, and in the respected King James version reads like this:

Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof. Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering. (Job 26:5-6)

The very first word in the above passage is the Hebrew word Rephaim, a reference to the descendants of Repha. In other words, this is a direct reference to the sons of King Cronos - the famed Titans of Greek mythology. And the Hebrew verb translated "formed" should have been translated "tremble" or "writhe". What a change this makes! In our modern terms it would now read:

The Titans tremble beneath the waters and the inhabitants thereof. Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering. (Job 26:5-6)

Dr. James Moffett (1922) of Oxford University is almost poetic in his translation:

Before him the primaeval giants writhe, under the ocean in their prison; the underworld lies open to his eyes, the nether regions are unveiled. (Job 26:5-6)

EINSTEIN’S ATLANTIS:

Albert Einstein also studied Atlantis during the early 1950s, but died in 1955. He was interested in finding solid "geological and paleontological facts” that supported if and where Atlantis had been. His research was done as collaboration with Charles Hapgood. Einstein wrote the forward for Hapgood’s book “EARTH'S SHIFTING CRUST: A KEY TO SOME BASIC PROBLEMS OF EARTH SCIENCE” (published in 1958 by Pantheon Books, New York).

INDIA’S ATLANTIS:

In Hindu legends an island of gods was destroyed during a war between the gods and the Asuras (giant people). Which is very similar to the greek myth of the gods Vs the Titans.

Vishnu Purana (2000 B.C.), a sanskrit text, speaks of Atala, the "White Island," which speaks of its geographically location, which when translated is roughly 24-28 degrees North latitude. There is no longitude translation.

Mahabharata tells of a horrendous war that sunk Atala. It is also called the White Island in this text. It describes it as an "island of great splendour" in the western ocean. It is also describes Tripura, a circular shaped capital city, which was destroyed by being “burnt until it sank into the ocean”.

THE CRO-MAGNON MAN’S ATLANTIS:

35000 BC was the appearance of the first Cro-Magnon man (larger brained, uses tools) in western Africa and western Europe. There are 4 stages of increasingly more intelligent Cro-Magnon peoples appearing in western/northern Africa, and fanning out from that location. Anthropologists also find 4 stages of remains/tools in the Azores and other Atlantic islands. One of the ways of determining intelligence is by measuring the brain size in c.c. The largest Cro-Magnon skull contained 1743 c.c. These first stages of Cro-Magnon are sometimes called “Paleo-Atlantic”.

The cave art in the Pyrenees and Cantabrian Mountains in France/Spain are Cro-Magnon. When the art was first discovered many believed it was a hoax. Some of the art depicts them wearing tailored clothes and even hats and that they were clean-shaven in many cases. Bone needles and obsidian razors were found, suggesting an advanced culture. Notations scratched on bones record lunar cycles and astrology. Cro-Magnon was also the first to farm, have advanced musical instruments and build houses. (approx. 15,000 BC.)

The last stage was the largest, occurring around 10,000 BC, and introduced the most modern cro-magnon’s which would later become the basis of modern mankind.

The stages and their locations suggest that they may have been people migrating from Atlantis. 10,000 BC is also the end of the last Ice Age, which had a record number of earthquakes according to geologists, various extinctions and geomagnetic disturbances which caused the poles to move.

The melting of the glaciers caused massive flooding.
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:28:43 pm
Isis*

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   posted 02-07-2006 11:20 PM                       
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THE MONOLITHS LEFT BEHIND:

The Baalbek Acropolis in Beirut Lebanon contains three huge stone that are 70 x 14 x 12 feet in size. They weigh approximately 1000 tons each. The quarry was in a distant valley and were moved uphill to their position. A fourth stone, weighing 1400 tons is still in the quarry. The building was never finished and the Romans later built a temple on top of it. It was built around 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

The Sphinx is suggested by geologists to have been built around 10,500 BC, by non-Egyptians. The reasoning is that the Sphinx/Lion is not an important part of Egyptian mythology (but is commonly found in Greek mythology). It has been covered by sand for most of its history until it was escavated in the early 1900s. Horizontal lines on the Sphinx are the result of water erosion, possibly a flood. Egyptoligists disagree, despite geological evidence to the contrary. The head of the Sphinx is also dated differently, has no horizontal erosion, and is disproportionate to the body, suggesting that since its lower torso was under sand, that a Pharoah had the original lion’s head carved down so that it would look like him.

The Great Pyramid of Gizeh, the largest, oldest and most perfect one (it is astrologically aligned like a compass) does not actually contain any human remains. Neither do any of the other ‘less perfect’ pyramids, which were poorly constructed in contrast. All the human remains that have been found are in the Valley of the Kings. There is a debate going on currently about whether the pyramids were really temples and palaces (much like the pyramids of the Mayans). Gizeh is also interesting because it is the only one without any inscriptions (with the exceptions of later writings that was written long after it was built). A variation in the mythology, says that the Age of the Gods which ended around 10,000 BC. It was ended because of a flood.

There is a 14-foot deep layer of silt sediment around the period, the result of a major flood.

Before the Arabs stole the outer casing stones of the pyramid, legends and records tell that there were water erosion marks halfway up the pyramid (about 400 feet above the Nile). This would definitely go over the top of the entire Sphinx.

When the Great Pyramid was first opened, they found halfway down inside a crustation of salt/minerals over an inch thick. The salt/minerals is consistent with that found in seawater. The other two pyramids also had salt. The smallest of the three was completely submerged under the water and likewise was filled with salt.

The three pyramids are supposedly astronomically aligned with the constellation of Orion’s belt (or Osiris). Osiris is the Egyptian equivalent of Christ.

Tiahuanacu, a city in Bolivia, is 12,500 feet above sea level. The explorer/engineer Arthur Posnansky was the first European to explore it and dated its building approximately 15,000 BC. The city is a port city, complete with stone piers and warfs. The surrounding area is covered with millions of sea-shells and fossilized sea flora. An inland sea, Lake Titicaca, 15 miles from the city (and 12,400 feet above sea level), contains oceanic creatures such as sharks, telling that the ocean had not only once reached this height, but sharks and other ocean creatures have continued to live there.

The port itself has numerous large carved stones, weighing between 100 and 200 tons. The largest is 440 tons. The rocks however have been knocked off their foundations, suggesting a huge earthquake. Some of the rocks are held together by huge rivets of copper and silver which were poured into place. (A similar technique was used in Egypt’s Elephantine Island in the middle of the Nile.) Also of interesting note, geologists have determined that many of the blocks came from quarries 200 miles away.

The docks themselves are large enough to comfortably hold hundreds of large ships. Excavations of the city show that it once held a population of 30,000 to 40,000+. The Acapana Pyramid in the city is a step pyramid, aligned like a perfect compass, and had in-door plumbing

A 10-ton gateway to the temple nearby was carved from a single rock and has elephants and toxodons carved into it. The toxodon is a large grazing creature that resembles a hippo with a longer neck. Both it and the south american elephant (Cuverionius) have been extinct since 11,000 to 12,000 BC. The images of the elephant and toxodon are commonly found in the city, ranging from pottery to textiles.

The large statues of ‘deities’ found in the temple have similar themes to India, Egypt and Greece. (Two of them very strongly resemble Zeus and Poseidon. The ‘Zeus’ has a beard, a straight nose and rays of lightning around his forehead. The ‘Poseidon’ more closely resembles the Mesopotamian detity called Oannes, who is depicted with carved fish scales/heads covering his legs.)

All of the ruins are covered with a layer of lime deposits, showing that it had once been underwater. Much of the ruins is also buried beneath a layer of silt sediments, showing it was under the sea for a fair amount of time. Professor Posnansky immediately thought of the Biblical flood, and thus searched for ways to date it (carbon dating was not around before 1945 when he finally published his book about the city). He determined the date by using the compass in the temple, which was slightly off, and determining what the constellations would have been like thousands of years ago (archeoastronomy) finally came up with an approximate date of 15,000 BC. Other professors and astronomers have verified the accuracy of his conclusions.

Carbon dating indicates that the city was later re-inhabited around 200 A.D., and that the figures already present in the city became to be reverred as gods. Carbon dating for the older rocks have numbers that vastly differs due to volcanic activity in the area during the 10,000 to 15,000 BC period.

The Inca capital of Cuzco, Peru is the home of the Sacsahuaman ruins. Most of the stones are 2 to 3 tons, but the bulk of the area is stones weighing about 100 tons. The largest is 300 tons. The walls are earthquake-proof due to their polygonal (they have 32 sides) style of construction. Despite the complex cutting, the stones are cut so perfectly and fit together so perfectly that not even a razor blade can be slid between their cracks. The rocks would have to be rolled and carved on every side to perfection before being laid, and if there was a single imperfection it would not fit. Placing a 100 ton rock and then having to take it back out to fix is near impossible. Modern engineering and laser technology would still have headaches and inaccuracy. The ruins pre-date the Inca city which was built around it. Lixus (Morocco, North Africa) also has 32-sided rocks inside its earthquake proof walls and incorporates stones that are 100+ tons.

Other Ruins/Monoliths: Malta Island, megalithic ruins with "ruts" going into the sea. Various Aegean Island underwater ruins (Mediterranean Sea). The Maldive Island underwater ruins (Indian Ocean). The Bahamas, underwater ruins (Atlantic Ocean). Carnac menhirs in Brittany running into the Atlantic Ocean. Stone Henge, England.

THE OCEANOGRAPHIC ATLANTIS:

Due to the carbon dating of ocean sediments we can conclude that the continents were originally attached.

Most of the continental plates are made from silicon-aluninum, but the area where Atlantis was (according to samples from the sea floor) is also made of silicon-magnesium, which is both highly unstable and heavy. Magnesium is also highly combustible and one of the few metals that can burn underwater.

Geologists have suggested that Atlantis has frequently rose and sunk numerous times in the last 3 million years (the Pleistocene Epoch, which ended circa 10,000 BC).

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is one of the most active underwater volcanic areas in the world.

Dr. Ewing, a professor, headed an oceanography expedition in 1948. He was actually an opponent of Atlantis, but in spite of himself ended up mapping much of the sea floor around where Atlantis supposedly was and found that the ocean floor had mountainous areas and ‘beaches’ in the areas, and the same shape, as the 1665 map by Kircher. Subsequent expeditions only add more details to this. Ewing cautiously, and trying not to be hypocritical of his previous stances, suggested that Atlantis may well have existed as a continent.

The 1949 expedition determined the ages of the sandy beaches. One group of older sand dates 225,000-325,000 years ago, while a 2nd newer batch of sand dates 20,000 to 100,000 years ago. This suggests that Atlantis has rose and sunk at least twice before. The time frames are the same as the last two ice ages.

The pear shaped area of Atlantis would be roughly the size of Spain when fully uncovered.

Samples taken from the Mid-Atlantic ridge have found fossils of small lake animals (diatoms), fresh water creatures, in addition to fossils of land plants.

There are six terrace levels of beaches, suggesting that Atlantis changed its shape and size at least six times, becoming smaller and smaller until it disappeared quite suddenly. The shrinking island could have resulted in an exodus of people to land that was more stable.

Even the United States Navy once searched for Atlantis, believing the oceanography could be useful for nuclear submarines operating near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

[ 02-09-2006, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: ^Isis^ ]
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Posts: 64 | From: ancient Egypt | Registered: Dec 2004   


Title: Re: Library of Alexandria (Original)
Post by: +Faith+ on April 12, 2008, 04:31:15 pm
Isis*

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   posted 02-07-2006 11:22 PM                       
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THE LINGUISTIC ATLANTIS:

Berber-Ibero-Basque

It has been suggested by linguistics that a nomadic Cro-Magnon society existed all the way from Morocco to the British Isles (which explains Stone Henge, similar sites in France, the caves near Basque, and Lixus). Both anthropologists and linguists agree that Basque is descended from a Cro-Magnon language.

Interesting notes: The Basque word for knife means “stone that cuts” and the word for ceiling means “top of cavern”. Basque is also a mystery in terms of its alien styles of vocabulary, syntax and grammatical structure. While the meanings and definitions of words are considered to be primitive, the actual syntax is extremely complex and orderly.

Both the Romans and Carthaginians recorded that Basque was originally very widespread

Berber left behind the Guanches of the Canary Islands, and Basque their unique European language. Prof. Johannes Friedrich, the leading linguist and expert on Berber claims the language has not changed in almost 2000 years. Its complexity assures that.

The extinct Iberian language (found only on tablets) is related to modern Basque, and is suggested to be either an earlier version of Basque, or a language spoken by one of the earlier stages of Cro-Magnon man.

Welsh, Erse & Gaelic use the same complicated syntax that Basque does. The people living in the British Isles used that language long before the Kelts arrived in 1800 BC. Welsh is peculiar in that it adopted Keltic words into its vocabulary, but maintained the syntax. It is suggested that Pre-Keltic Welsh was identical to Basque.

The Mayas continue to this day to speak their language, and to the surprise of a Basque missionary during the 1500s come to convert them, found that they spoke almost exactly the same language, with a slight difference in pronunciation.

THE GEOLOGISTS’ ATLANTIS:

Over 200 species of animals became extinct between 10,000 and 20,000 BC. The period is known as the Pleistocene Extinction.

Catastrophism vs uniformitarianism, or gradualism (three theories that get various people arguing)... while all three are actually active in nature. It is possible that evolution could not cope with the vast changes over a period of several thousand years, or they could have been wiped out all at once.

One of the indicators of a catastrophy at the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both eastern and western hemispheres, North America and Russia/Siberia.

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains.

Instead he found gold, and massive amounts of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. All trapped in ice and he ended up with their rotting carcasses. The ice sheet they were trapped in stretched for miles, with very little rock except below the thick layer of ice. He had concluded that an enormous tidal wave (a tsunami) had wiped out the creatures, along with trees and peat moss, and that they had floated in the ice dead until the ice itself had frozen completely. The ice had frozen relatively quickly.

Other non-arctic creatures were affected: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. With the exception of the tortoise, they all live on the ground however and need to breath air.

Others: Woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, ground sloths, antelopes, American camels, Asian elephants (Indian elephants came from the sub-continent of India).

All died at roughly the same time, 10,000 BC. They were not slowly killed off. They were quickly killed off. It is also important to note that people should not confuse this with the extinction of the dinosaurs, which happened millions of years ago in contrast.

Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961).

It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of Chi