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Ancient Mysteries => Ancient Mysteries => Topic started by: Dawn Moline on June 24, 2007, 10:45:07 pm



Title: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future
Post by: Dawn Moline on June 24, 2007, 10:45:07 pm
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Author  Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-02-2005 11:14 PM                       
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the Origins of Love

The idea for this topic arose from HereForNow's thread, "War in Heaven." To start with, we used the the model of the Watchers seducing the Daughters of Cain in the Book of Enoch. The question I first posed was, why were the Watchers first drawn to mortal women, was it lust, as the texts would have us believe, or was it love, as I personally happen to believe?

It could not be simple lust.

An angel, knowing the grace of God, would not sacrifice that grace lightly, and surely a being that is All-Knowing would know that lust is simply a passing fancy. An Angel, not knowing the draw of love, would be seduced and might make such a sacrifice. I also hold that it was not mere beauty alone that led the Watchers astray. There are female angels as well as male, and surely a female angel could become a thing of beauty far more enticing than flesh could ever conceive. I believe it was some inner quality that drew the angels, an element they saw in their creator, an innate human quality. The Watchers fell in love with the daughters of Cain because they sensed, in them, the same human quality they saw in the creator. In other words, their love for the women was the same as their love for their God. Loving the women helped them become closer to God, just as when we love one another we, too, become closer to God.

Love could not conceive of the monsters (giants) such a union at first reproduce, love simply is, it knows no master but itself, and that it enough.

When did love first enter the world? Did Neandertal man have any love for his mate? While the Ice Age hunter/gatherers hunted the Woolly Mammoth, did they do so for love?

From what I can see, love can be said to have first entered the world in one of two ways:

Human beings, descended from the apes, and all our impulses, love included, are nature's trick to get us to reproduce, impulses present in any species.

Human beings, descended from the angels, and the ability to love is of God's gift to us, perhaps our one saving grace amidst a sea of troubles.

Knowing many of you as I do, I think I can imagine which of the two camps some of you might split into. Still, I would like to put a more personal touch on this. I invite everyone to share their opinions, theories, even experiences on the reality of love, no matter how plain or how intimate. I notice many of you aren't using your real names, so there is nothing to conceal, no secret to protect. The only thing that you are protecting is whatever standing you have may have built up in the forum, which, in the final analysis, means very little anyway. I want to judge no one, I wish to understand everyone.

As human beings, I believe it our responsibility to try and gain a greater appreciation of one another. In my opinion, that is the one thing we owe to our past generations, to our children who come after us. No greater understanding can be greater than the one we have of love.


[This message has been edited by Dawn Moline (edited 01-02-2005).]

[ 08-29-2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Dawn Moline ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:52:08 pm
 
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   posted 01-02-2005 11:37 PM                       
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I think, in speaking of this, we should be careful to separate "love" from "lust." Perhaps the angels lusted after mortal women because they simply were drawn to the idea of sin. Everyone wants to get away with something "naughty," once in awhile. They were forbidden them, and so, wanted them all the more
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:52:41 pm
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  posted 01-03-2005 12:07 AM                       
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The remark about instincts was directed at me, I suppose, but I am hardly going to be the champion of non-love, if that is what you're thinking, Dawn. I believe that true love exists, but I believe it is much more rare than we think it is. As for the Watchers, well, why not lust? Men, included, I assume, male angels, are attracted to the visual. Men are more apt to buy Playboy, buy pin-ups, watch pornography.
I like to believe that, since the Watchers gave so many bad gifts to this world - weapons, warfare, lies and deception, that love was the one good gift they left us.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:53:18 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 12:11 AM                       
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The origns of love are as mysterious as the origin of ourselves.
I once heard that "God is love", if that is true, then that is your answer. The mystery lies in both memory and chemical reactions. Combine the two, and you have love, an inescapable feeling of goodness sparked only by the object of your affection.

Regardless of HOW it happens or where it came from, love is the only thing in this world worth having...



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:53:44 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 01-03-2005 12:26 AM                       
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True love is rare.
I don't believe that everyone who marries one another actually is knowing true love. I think that, by our very nature, people simply don't want to be lonely and so, as a whole, often make bad and hasty choices. I have friends that are too practical, while others aren't practical enough. As I said, I don't believe that love is non-existent, I just don't believe it's as common as suggested. True love is rare.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:54:18 pm
docyabut
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Well I think when the second wave of angels came to help the frist out of the lower vibrations, they also got trapped into selfness. As far as love, even animals love without lust.Its not only a emotion of man.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:55:02 pm
Absonite

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  posted 01-03-2005 07:36 AM                       
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Respected Dawn,

There is another answer as to why these "Watchers" took the daughters of men and it is part of the so-called "war in heaven" and the so-called Lucifer rebellion.
You will remember that the Tree of Life is always a recurring theme in all of these myths or facts. It appears in many of the Sumerian cylinders of Enki and Enlil and Marduk and always shows Adam & Eve. This was a real plant with life extending energy for the dual-circulartory systems of these super-material beings. The so-called Gods. Upon the rebellion of the "Watchers" Van took possion of this "Tree of Life" and deprived the "Watchers" of it's sustanance and life extending properties. They were forced to mate with Earths mortal offspring in order to procreate their progeny. Eventually even Adam & Eve upon their own particular default resorted to the same method of reproduction.

Therefore it was neither lust nor love.


67:4.2 The sixty members of the planetary staff who went into rebellion chose Nod as their leader. They worked wholeheartedly for the rebel Prince but soon discovered that they were deprived of the sustenance of the system life circuits. They awakened to the fact that they had been degraded to the status of mortal beings. They were indeed superhuman but, at the same time, material and mortal. In an effort to increase their numbers, Daligastia ordered immediate resort to sexual reproduction, knowing full well that the original sixty and their forty-four modified Andonite associates were doomed to suffer extinction by death, sooner or later. After the fall of Dalamatia the disloyal staff migrated to the north and the east. Their descendants were long known as the Nodites, and their dwelling place as "the land of Nod."

Ê 67:4.3 The presence of these extraordinary supermen and superwomen, stranded by rebellion and presently mating with the sons and daughters of earth, easily gave origin to those traditional stories of the gods coming down to mate with mortals. And thus originated the thousand and one legends of a mythical nature, but founded on the facts of the postrebellion days, which later found a place in the folk tales and traditions of the various peoples whose ancestors had participated in these contacts with the Nodites and their descendants.

Ê 67:4.4 The staff rebels, deprived of spiritual sustenance, eventually died a natural death. And much of the subsequent idolatry of the human races grew out of the desire to perpetuate the memory of these highly honored beings of the days of Caligastia.

>>>>>>>>


67:3.3 The traitorous Prince marshaled the disloyal midway creatures and other groups of rebel personalities and organized them to execute his bidding, while Van assembled the loyal midwayers and other faithful groups and began the great battle for the salvation of the planetary staff and other marooned celestial personalities.

Ê 67:3.4 During the times of this struggle the loyalists dwelt in an unwalled and poorly protected settlement a few miles to the east of Dalamatia, but their dwellings were guarded day and night by the alert and ever-watchful loyal midway creatures, and they had possession of the priceless tree of life.

Ê 67:3.5 Upon the outbreak of rebellion, loyal cherubim and seraphim, with the aid of three faithful midwayers, assumed the custody of the tree of life and permitted only the forty loyalists of the staff and their associated modified mortals to partake of the fruit and leaves of this energy plant. There were fifty-six of these modified Andonite associates of the staff, sixteen of the Andonite attendants of the disloyal staff refusing to go into rebellion with their masters.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p067.htm


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:55:46 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-03-2005 09:43 AM                       
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Dawn,
What a thoughtful question.

Love, in my opinion, is all there really is. And I doubt that we, as human bodies, get more than a tiny glimpse of that feeling.

True love creates - because it is pure, unadulterated energy (light) expanding outward.

Love does not see guilt - it sees through the illusion of guilt. Love is the very essense of reality.

If God is love - and I would be willing to say He probably is - than anything NOT based in love - is not of God - and hence, not real.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:56:22 pm
iwannano
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Was it only the male angels who loved/lusted after female humans? Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:56:53 pm
iwannano
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How does one define love? Is love the same for spouse, children, pets, friends or life in general?
I love my wife, my family and my pets but I couldn't begin to describe the feelings. I feel happiness, joy, sorrow, frustration, anger and can include love in combination with all.


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:57:37 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-03-2005 11:10 AM                       
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Was it only the male angels who loved/lusted after female humans? Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue.

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Good point.

Another thing worth considering is how an angel could "lust" in the first place.

Do angels need to eat food to sustain themselves? Do they need to sleep to keep their wits about them? Is their hearing limited to physical "ears"? Do they urinate and defecate as human beings do?

Because if the answer is "no" - then there is also no reason to believe that they need depend on the physical apparatus we humans, possess in our nether-regions to propagate.

And lust is just a chemical reaction in the brain intended to promote procreation.

Somehow, the idea of angels sneaking off and "doing it" seems contradictory.

But that's just me. 

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:58:08 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 02:59 PM                       
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In the book of revelation, there is a mention of a tre that the "chosen ones" may eat from during their blissful time in eternity.
If the angels are not much higher than ourselves (according to the bible), and we are to become like them, and then we also have a need to eat of the fruit of this tree, then Yes, Angels DO need to eat, and given that angels have displayed "human" emotions in the past, I would think it quite probable that they could also feel these "urges" that make the flesh so grand.

angels are merely magical human-faeries


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:58:47 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-03-2005 03:43 PM                       
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Angels - human faeries? Goodness. Who would'a thunk it?
I thought I saw a faerie once. I was young and had just chewed upon a weed plucked from the earth.

If I am correct (I usually am  ) the word 'chosen' or 'ejklektovß' appears only once in Revelations. But I was unaware that they were going to eat anything.

There are truly a lot of angels in that book, though, doing all sorts of things.

Faeries.

That makes me hungry.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 13, 2007, 11:59:25 pm
Brig

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Angels, as I see scripture, are neither male nor female. There are two types of "love". Well actually in some languages there are six or seven; but being most familiar with english, I have to stay with the two. One is spiritual and the other physical. "God is love" fits the spiritual. It is the more important. The other was intended to procreate; but we have made it into a "lustful sport". Read the biblical definition of "charity", just substitute the word "love" for the word "charity". 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:00:06 am
bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 06:52 PM                       
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Calm down Tippy, I was trying NOT to get caught up in semantics.
In Revelation, there is a tree by the river, the river flows from God etc. Those 'lucky' enough to be accepted into God's perfect world were allowed to eat of that tree.

Speaking of love, it is often difficult to know what one means by 'love', when someone tells you they love you.
(I know this first hand)
What is harder is the words associated with the various levels of love. each level has certain words which must ONLY be used on those levels, and, if you confuse these words.. misunderstandings can easily result...



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:00:42 am
Tippy
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   posted 01-04-2005 04:51 AM                       
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Calm down Tippy, I was trying NOT to get caught up in semantics.
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Party pooper. I live for semantics.


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In Revelation, there is a tree by the river, the river flows from God etc. Those 'lucky' enough to be accepted into God's perfect world were allowed to eat of that tree.
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I see. As so much of Revelation is symbolic - that is likely also - but thanks for clarifying your point.


quote:
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Speaking of love, it is often difficult to know what one means by 'love', when someone tells you they love you.
(I know this first hand)
What is harder is the words associated with the various levels of love. each level has certain words which must ONLY be used on those levels, and, if you confuse these words.. misunderstandings can easily result...
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I am not sure LOVE - real love - can even be expressed by words.

I know what you mean - by being hurt - and I am sorry that you were at one time. I hope it has eased by now.

We, humans, tend to mis-label love everywhere we can - we are so desparate for it, we create what we think is a good rendition.

What I question is the idea that angels (which may be some sort of spirits) would (or could) copulate with humans - or eachother. Sex is the domain of the carnal human - it is subject to physical substance.

That was my point. Are people just trying to "humanize" angels?

Or is the theory a direct descendant of Greek Mythology? Like the Zealots who took human wives. Or like Otto and Ariadne, from the Dionysus era.


[This message has been edited by Tippy (edited 01-04-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:01:15 am
Absonite

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  posted 01-04-2005 08:34 AM                       
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The problem you are having is believing that the "Watchers" were angels.
They were not and had perfected genetically engineered bodies from human evolutionary stock.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p067.htm


even without the aid of new revelation it is fairly easy to deduce the truth of this scenerio from the incomplete adulterated myths of antiquity from innumerable sources already at your disposal.

[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-04-2005).]


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:01:48 am
bluducky

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   posted 01-04-2005 03:42 PM                       
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 I am not sure LOVE - real love - can even be expressed by words.
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Well, there are levels of REAL love, also.

Lets say you have a friend, male or female (same sex, or otherwise), and you KNOW you cannot live without that person. You can hardly go a day without talking to them. You are both open about your feelings, etc, and there are no secrets hidden from one another. You tell each other 'I love you', and of course, you truly mean it, it feels so right, and always shall be, because you KNOW, if you can, you will be together forever.

You're not having sex, or even kissing, but the love is so strong, not lustful... You would die for this person..

THAT is REAL love.

But, you're right. the highest form of love is beyond comprehension, let alone describable with mere words. Language is a very limited medium for the transfer of information.

Abs,


quote:
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The problem you are having is believing that the "Watchers" were angels.
They were not and had perfected genetically engineered bodies from human evolutionary stock.


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Care to elaborate, my friend?

Can you tell us plainly what you know?


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:02:15 am
bluducky

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   posted 01-04-2005 04:31 PM                       
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(btw, thank you for your concern ... broken hearts are still going to beat, but they never stop bleeding..)


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:02:45 am
Absonite

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  posted 01-04-2005 09:08 PM                       
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Ducky,
I gave you the link. Why must you always be spoon fed?
You and others continuously tell me to stop cutting and pasting. So here I stopped and now you want me to elaborate.
What is it? You are dying to have everything stated in my own personal words? I gave you the truth and the link for the whole story as it really happened. What more can I do?
You are so demanding, does your wife put with this stuff from you?
 


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:03:30 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:00 PM                       
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Respected Absonite,
Why not love?
Granted, you don't believe the Watchers were angels. Yet, even if an angel, or any being, truly was interested in self-preservation, surely to go against the will of God would be a self-defeating purpose. The reason cannot be a practical one, the reason cannot involve logic, it must be a matter of either the will or the heart.

An angel, taking mortal form would only do so to experience all the pleasures of the flesh. Yet, being divine creatures, the pleasures they would most wish to experience wouldn't be the urges of simple animals. They would be those of a higher mind. Love knows no master than itself. Love is reckless and and cares not for logic or what may be right or what is wrong. It is the only thing, in my opinion, that would drive beings that were in the presence of a higher self away from a presence that, though still human, would be no less divine. It is the only power that could drive an angel away from God, all the moreso, because it must truly be God (all that we truly know of God upon this earth).

Respected Absonite...don't you believe in love..?


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:03:58 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:01 PM                       
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If God is love - and I would be willing to say He probably is - than anything NOT based in love - is not of God - and hence, not real.
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So true, Tippy. Everything human sins, but perhaps the good are not separated from the bad by the quantity of their sins, but the amount of love each one of us holds in our hearts.

And so, the amount of God each one of us holds in our hearts.



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:04:29 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:04 PM                       
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Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue.
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Of course not, Iwanno, and Lillith, the first woman (first wife to Adam), was said to have become the bride of Satan and also the first vampire. There were no female watchers, to my knowledge, among the two hundred, though, so they were not put to the same test. I suppose I'm the wrong one to ask on the topic of the virtue of women. In my own beliefs, God IS a woman.

The very reason that we can feel all manner of love, towards our parents, towards our pets, towards artwork and literature even, would seem to put the lie to the idea that it is all just "instinct."

I would say that love is what separates us from animals, but I actually believe that animals love one another, too. At least, the ones I know of.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:05:15 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:04 PM                       
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quote:
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Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue.
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Of course not, Iwanno, and Lillith, the first woman (first wife to Adam), was said to have become the bride of Satan and also the first vampire. There were no female watchers, to my knowledge, among the two hundred, though, so they were not put to the same test. I suppose I'm the wrong one to ask on the topic of the virtue of women. In my own beliefs, God IS a woman.

The very reason that we can feel all manner of love, towards our parents, towards our pets, towards artwork and literature even, would seem to put the lie to the idea that it is all just "instinct."

I would say that love is what separates us from animals, but I actually believe that animals love one another, too. At least, the ones I know of.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:05:47 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:06 PM                       
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Bluducky,
An angel is by definition, an extension of God. Therefore, why should it need to eat from the tree, since it would have much of the knowledge that God has? The arts that the Watchers taught the humans, the arts of war, astronomy, seduction, etc., were all human arts practiced at one time or another upon this world. They would be knowledge, that a HUMAN God would be fully aware of. Hence, the more esoteric things, how to become a god themselves, for instance, would be withheld.

As for the correlation between angels and faeries, an interesting point. I see faeries as the cousins of faeries, perhaps in existence for nearly as long (the original elves, too). When I speak of elves and faeries, I don't mean the modern tradition of them. The original tradition, these creatures were more serious, and possessed of a more noble spirit.

An angel, having all the power of God, would be something much greater than either of these beings.



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:06:41 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:06 PM                       
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Bluducky,
An angel is by definition, an extension of God. Therefore, why should it need to eat from the tree, since it would have much of the knowledge that God has? The arts that the Watchers taught the humans, the arts of war, astronomy, seduction, etc., were all human arts practiced at one time or another upon this world. They would be knowledge, that a HUMAN God would be fully aware of. Hence, the more esoteric things, how to become a god themselves, for instance, would be withheld.

As for the correlation between angels and faeries, an interesting point. I see faeries as the cousins of faeries, perhaps in existence for nearly as long (the original elves, too). When I speak of elves and faeries, I don't mean the modern tradition of them. The original tradition, these creatures were more serious, and possessed of a more noble spirit.

An angel, having all the power of God, would be something much greater than either of these beings.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Keri Powers on November 14, 2007, 12:07:24 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-04-2005 10:06 PM                       
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Bluducky,
An angel is by definition, an extension of God. Therefore, why should it need to eat from the tree, since it would have much of the knowledge that God has? The arts that the Watchers taught the humans, the arts of war, astronomy, seduction, etc., were all human arts practiced at one time or another upon this world. They would be knowledge, that a HUMAN God would be fully aware of. Hence, the more esoteric things, how to become a god themselves, for instance, would be withheld.

As for the correlation between angels and faeries, an interesting point. I see faeries as the cousins of faeries, perhaps in existence for nearly as long (the original elves, too). When I speak of elves and faeries, I don't mean the modern tradition of them. The original tradition, these creatures were more serious, and possessed of a more noble spirit.

An angel, having all the power of God, would be something much greater than either of these beings.



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:15:46 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 01-04-2005 10:18 PM                       
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Matthew 6-46 if you only love those that love you what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much.If you are friendly only to your friends, even the heathen do that, how are you different from anyone else? But you are to be perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:16:24 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 01-04-2005 10:59 PM                       
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The subconscious will not operate if spied on,healing and growth can not take place when ones mind is on self. Just this, when one in deep need can pray for his neighbor with all the urgency and concern he would have for himself, only then can the healing forces take action. No longer spied on the subconscious healing forces over flow out ward in all directions, healing him in its passing flow outward letting peace into this bitter places of the world.
The Redeemer who brought the law of forgivess into the world did this in dying on the cross Father forgive them for they know not what they do ,it was the His last recorded prayer.
And from that day to this the world was never the same again, for the conscious evolution had begun in the Soul of Man.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:17:00 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-04-2005 11:13 PM                       
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To clarify my point. (which everyone seems to have a dislike for)
Revelation 2:7 "..... To him who overcomes, I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Also Rev. 22:1-2: 1"And he showed me a pure river of the water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the middle of it's street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding it's fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

Now couple this knowledge of those 'who have overcome eating said fruit', with those references claiming 'we shall become like him', and have SPIRITUAL bodies.

Putting two and two together logically indicates that those who have overcome, and by now have spiritual bodies, may eat the fruit from the trees by the river, emanating from God.



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:18:10 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-04-2005 11:23 PM                       
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Abs,

quote:
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What is it? You are dying to have everything stated in my own personal words?
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Now you're getting it! Just like everyone else...


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You are so demanding, does your wife put with this stuff from you?
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Everyone who knows me knows that I do these things for a reason, and if they bear with me, they will see fruit. Things are not always simply a burden. Look deeper!


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:18:34 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 01-04-2005 11:42 PM                       
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Man! The arguments are spilling over into every thread!
If the purpose of love is to be closer to God, or to know God, what is the purpose of something like unrequited love? Love that's never fulfilled? Stalking? For torture..? Heehee.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:19:03 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-04-2005 11:53 PM                       
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Welcome back, ms. Jennie
I personally don't think the purpose of love is to get closer to God, but that is just one of it's many uses; Perhaps it may even just be a SIDEEFFECT; that is, you are happy with God because he/she/it has let you love someone/thing, and you are satisfied?

Love, sadly, is still a mystery, and because we cannot fully comprehend it, it shall forever remain that way.

Anything goes..

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:19:28 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 01-05-2005 11:24 PM                       
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Didn't Jeffrey Dahmer kill and eat his victims because he feared they were going to leave him, because he didn't want to be alone? In his mind, and, I imagine, by your own definition, he was "in love," too.
Explain that one.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:20:10 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 01-06-2005 12:16 AM                       
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Dahmer was a nut-job and has no place in this discussion.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:21:12 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 01-06-2005 12:25 AM                       
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Yet, he was in love! As was John Hinckley, Jr., when he shot Reagan, in love with Jody Foster. (It would seem that I can turn each argument against any of you, at anyplace, or anytime). 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:22:01 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 01-06-2005 12:56 AM                       
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My Sad Ducky,
Sideffect: agreed.
Happy with God cause you're in love: heck no, you're just plain HAPPY!!!!
I don't know about you, but when I fall in love often, I see fireworks. When two people connect on a spiritual and physical level, I mean really connect, is there anything better?

I think not.

Love is not rational, it's crazy, and that seems to we why we all like it!
How drab would the world be without love?
We'd all end up like crabby old Aristotle here!


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:22:31 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-06-2005 04:03 AM                       
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quote:
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Didn't Jeffrey Dahmer kill and eat his victims because he feared they were going to leave him, because he didn't want to be alone? In his mind, and, I imagine, by your own definition, he was "in love," too.
Explain that one.


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Why not? Should the meaning of "love" change? Why do we put our own restrictions on something that cannot be restricted?

It's all in perception.

Consider that for thousands of years - human sacrifice was an integral part of many societies. the Aztecs would offer up their beloved little ones to be killed and eviscerated. And "love" was very much associated with the act.

Back to Dahmer - his acts are very similar - only the perception of society has changed.

We, humans, give the meaning to love that we want it to have. I can't see that anyone can say Dahmer did not love his victims - unless someone here is a psychic - and I'm sure not.

What is in question with Dahmer is his acts - not his feelings.

BTW - the cannabalism is an ancient ritual of love - consider the symbolic "eating of the dead god-man" which some call the Holy Sacrament. Communion.

Just my two cents. 

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:23:05 pm
Petunia
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Well , Tippy WTF can anyone possible have to offer after that post?
That really summed up love for me , yup sure enough.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:23:45 pm
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 01-06-2005 08:44 PM                       
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Tippy, if "we, humans, give the meaning to love that we want it to have," my meaning for love sure as heck isn't going to include killing and eating people. And, if you ask me, the Aztecs were pretty nutty, too. I don't know how people got on Dahmer here anyway, he was really a sick guy.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:25:46 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-07-2005 04:02 AM                       
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quote:
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Tippy, if "we, humans, give the meaning to love that we want it to have," my meaning for love sure as heck isn't going to include killing and eating people. And, if you ask me, the Aztecs were pretty nutty, too. I don't know how people got on Dahmer here anyway, he was really a sick guy.
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I agree - I'm just trying to illustrate that the "meaning of love" is one of perception in our various societies.

Since Dahmer said he loved his victims - I see no reason not to believe him - inasmuch as he thought he could love.

Andrea Yates (conviction now overturned) said she killed her kids out of love. She is a more frequent case in this day and age. A parent killing "to protect". Sick to a normal mind - but understood to a mind steeped in desperation, in her case, brought on by religious extremism and post-partum mental illness.

I'm not sure who brought Dahmer into this thread - but it is good to show that 'love' isn't always the fluffy, peach-colored, window we want it to be.

Love doesn't hurt - our expectations hurt us.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:26:20 pm
Absonite

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  posted 01-07-2005 06:01 AM                       
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gee Tippy,
you're getting very profound on us lately. I might have to reconsider.

Regarding Dahlmer though, I seem to remember that he used to drill holes in their heads and pour molten metal in while they were still concious.
I guess you only hurt the ones you love.

this thread is sounding more like it belongs in the Lucifers Children folder.

[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-07-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:27:06 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-07-2005 07:15 AM                       
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I could have gone all day without the picture in my mind of someone pouring molten metal into skull holes.
All I can say is, "That God for our very human ability to go into physical shock."


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:27:41 pm
Dorian Gray
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   posted 01-07-2005 09:45 AM                       
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I am the origin of love, because I am love. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:28:14 pm
Nemesis1

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   posted 01-08-2005 10:15 AM                       
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Dorian, I think they're still talking about heterosexual love here. Once we get into homosexual love, feel free to chime in. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:28:44 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 01-08-2005 12:14 PM                       
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I believe I was the one who brought Dahmer into this thread, and I would like to thank you for defending it, Tippy, far more articulately than I could have done. Here are some other examples of how love has drawn people to unreasonable, if not sick, heights:
*Abraham, desperate to please the god he so loved, was prepared to sacrifice his own son before an angel stopped him.

*Menelaus, desperate to get his wife Helen back from Paris, sieged Troy for ten years, all for love.

*The Crusaders, having such love in their hearts for Christianity, invaded the Holy Land, slaying all the Arabs they found in the city of Jerusalem.

*The followers of David Koresh, so in love with their leader, surrendered their wives, their daughters, and lastly, even their lives, when the Branch Davidians were besieged by the F.B.I. in Waco, Texas.

Sorry, that's all I can think of for now, this is early for me, even if it's a Saturday.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:29:16 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 01-08-2005 01:33 PM                       
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Love stinks.
So true!

Yet, you have to admit that love actually does exist, else you wouldn't even have that love for your children, pets or whatever.

People needing to be told how much someone loves them, well, that's more about neediness and insecurity than anything else.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:29:53 pm
HereForNow
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Dawn,
First off I'd like to thank you for the interest you expressed about this idea...
In all my personal dealings with love and with lust,it was usually something that was brought on by a feeling of ultimate desire.
Liking almost everything about the other.
In the case that had drawn me to marriage,it was a feeling of belonging and acceptance.
Everything I desired a life mate to have was about complete with her. This is where I began to feel this love. As a teen it was impossible for me to know what the differences between love and lust. As the late 20's began to fade away these differences were then as obvious to me as day and night. Now that I have experienced the greatest kinds of love that a human can feel, I now seek that one kind of love that is the rarest of all.

I want to one day feel the embrace of world peace and unconditional love among all living creatures. I know this makes me sound like a tree hugger,don't kill the whales type. In a sence I kinda am... : )
I cried when E.T. Died ok?
LOL

Anyhow, in ways I've come to dislike violent people or anything that has to do with war.
My short coming is; I wouldn't mind all these "enemies", of peace and real love to die off. Because of this, I have judged them and it makes me wrong. This is because with love came the emotion that established the human balance. Hate, the other emotion that is usually brought on by a strong desire of some kind.

Now lust is an interesting subject to me because I have a "Demon" of lust that won't leave me alone to this day. LOL
Sad to say, I am very typical in terms of being a man when it comes to sex. On the other hand, I like everything that goes with it. Because of this impulsive nature of mine, I have 4 great children that I wouldn't trade for anything. Another thing I discovered about it is that stress levels seem to lower drastically after a "Great" night.....

The nature of love to me, is to let love flow as the wind. To feel a complete connection to what ever you focas your desires upon. The need to feel this in a sence is love as well. The warmth of a hug is felt inside like a furnace. The touch of a kiss is the spark that lights the fire.
Suddenly you feel the very essence of the other within you and around you. This energizes you and fills you with an unexplainable happiness. This is when you know that love may possibly be the reason you feel the way you do.


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:30:21 pm
HereForNow
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Dawn I should have did this yesterday.
Cheers!
The origions of love topic is unbias and seems to make a very valid point. A+
: )

P.S. When training an animal, remember men like jerky too....
Woof-woof (rolls over)

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:30:53 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-10-2005 09:16 PM                       
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quote:
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The nature of love to me, is to let love flow as the wind. To feel a complete connection to what ever you focas your desires upon. The need to feel this in a sence is love as well. The warmth of a hug is felt inside like a furnace. The touch of a kiss is the spark that lights the fire.
Suddenly you feel the very essence of the other within you and around you. This energizes you and fills you with an unexplainable happiness. This is when you know that love may possibly be the reason you feel the way you do.
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You should be a poet, HereForNow, I can't remember when I last heard passion expressed so eloquently. I don't think that men and women behave all that differently to how they respond to passion. There's a vibration that happens between human beings, especially just before getting physical where all the world seems possible and everything seems about to explode. I'm a firm believer that sexuality is not something that is immoral, and that when we express our sexuality, in a way, we seem to be reaching out and literally touching Heaven itself.

Marilyn Monroe once said. "Why would God give us such a beautiful gift, and then tell us not to use it?" Marilyn isn't given credit for being a great philosopher, but I certainly share her beliefs on that one.

For a woman, coming of age is quite different, and more complicated than it is for a man. From what I understand, men only understand that they must mate. For a woman, though, it's both a time of great power and often a time of great fear. I'm in my late twenties, unmarried, and have had quite a few lovers in my life, yet still I manage to find myself in situations where I still don't comprehend their making. You never quite learn to handle them all. Life, for me, is rarely boring, and the men in my life have been both a source of solace and one of pain as well. I live for the moments we are together, and yet seem to die with the dawn (my own source of poetry).

It would be a poorer world without love, but it would one lacking all magic at all without lust.

Cheers,

Dawn

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:31:19 pm
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 01-10-2005 09:53 PM                       
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HereForNow,
You sound like you were a real fun date...when you were young! Teehee. (That's just a joke, buddy)

It's funny how things are for a woman. Back when you're young, like in your teens, you're taught you shouldn't misbehave, else people will call you a ****. Then, when you get in your twenties, you start not to care, especially if you get to move away to college.

"For a woman, though, it's both a time of great power and often a time of great fear."

I'll say. There's nothing more powerful than the feeling you have for someone back when you're young. Nothing quite like young love. No matter how many boyfriends I have, or how good they treat me, there's nothing quite like the feeling you get from the first. Everything is new and each brand new feeling is a revelation.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:31:47 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 01-11-2005 08:31 PM                       
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Does anyone ever really get who they want? I'll come right out and say it since (obviously), I'm not using my real name: I feel like I settled for something less than "love," rather than got the girl I wanted. I was really in love with someone back in college, but for whatever reason, she ended up marrying someone else. She is the one I still think about. And it wasn't even really that she was that beautiful, it's just because everything just seemed to feel right. Luckily, I'm just living with someone, so it doesn't feel like any great betrayal to say this. Life is filled with regrets, I guess.
Hey, maybe me and Stacy should get together since it sounds like she's having problems, too. (Joking here)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:32:26 pm
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 01-11-2005 09:13 PM                       
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No thank you. Things are better now, I guess I'll have to let you know if anything changes...
(Course I know next to nothing about you..?)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:33:01 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 01-11-2005 09:26 PM                       
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Yep. You don't...Muhuhahahahahahahhah!!!!
 

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:33:34 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 01-11-2005 09:35 PM                       
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I'd like to discuss how men and women seem to "love" differently. Men often get inspired to do great things when they are in love, even if it's just the natural urge to find food, get work, provide for one's family. I think women tend to be more practical. I think they're capable of great loves, too, but I don't think that it provides the same impetus. I've known highly intelligent women that could have had great futures, yet chose to disappear into the anonymity of their husbands' lives and careers instead. A pity. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:34:04 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-11-2005 10:11 PM                       
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hmm... I wonder how many people's personalities are DIFFERENT here on the forums to what they are in 'real life'?
Personally, you all know me. I am the same in life as I am everywhere else -- cunning, intelligent, merciless, inspiring, annoying, and kind

(oh, and apparently, I'm something of an Adonis. two youngish girls saw me coming out of the cinema recently, and said quite loudly "wow! He's so HOT!" ... hmm.. yes.. they were with guys too (possibly their boyfriends..))

My contribution to the thread. Everything HereForNow has said, plus -- Love is rare. I have found it, but it hurts so much, because, as yet, it is unfulfilled... (difficult circumstances always get in the way)

Time is a wasting.. excuse me...


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:34:38 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-12-2005 12:57 AM                       
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BLUDUCKY!!!
You are not quite the same on line, because I thought you were a female! Jeeze! I apologise profusely!!!
I'm an old lady of 58 or so, and have had a life-time of great experiences...more fun than anyone deserves. I have found that the old expression from William S. is totally true: "Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all..."

I have always tried to have a good attitude about people, and patience with myself.

I agree, Blu, "Love" is RARE, but only if we are stingy with it. Keep loving people, love them till they can't stand you...

My own experience with "true" love....I met Jack and we lived together for 22 years from the night we met till he died of brain tumor in Feb.2000. We never married. We had a daughter who was 18 when he died. That was "true" love too... I feel "true" love has filled my life.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:35:08 pm
bluducky

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You mean my suave, charismatic vernacularisms aren't charming, but are SISSY!!??
I'm shocked and horrified

Well, yes, I am very manly indeed, despite the effeminate name which has clung to me; albeit without a personality of my own, I adopted the proper way of a gentleman to feign normalcy

Is it working?




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I agree, Blu, "Love" is RARE, but only if we are stingy with it. Keep loving people, love them till they can't stand you...
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I love people, even people I don't know, but rarely is it returned -- but love isn't about wanting something in return, is it?

(I love you, Rock )

The love of a friend can be terribly strong, and true indeed (according to my definition below). We have had a good run with this thread; We have looked at LUST, and what it can make us do; we have looked at what we think LOVE is, and where we think it came from, but -- who knows the definition of LOVE?
as Tippy said:

quote:
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 humans, give the meaning to love that we want it to have
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To ME, love is STRONG, and always shall be. It is all encompassing, and I want to NEVER leave the object of my affections -- quite obsessive, really.

To me, LOVE, gives every little thing a meaning; every look, every touch, everything that is done, whether for you, or for themselves, and somehow, it just becomes.. special...

To me, LOVE makes the other person a permanent PART of yourself, like an extra limb, an extra mind, and extra heart.

True LOVE, never, EVER dies. If you have it, you will ALWAYS have it, and so will your extra limb  And so, you will be together forever. whether you are married or not, both males, both females, it doesn't matter -- love is not lust.
You will always be friends, and always be very close, and have a connection noone can ever share, or ever replace.

Well, it's time to close my heart now, and finish this post

(i'm not afraid to be sissy.. any men got a problem with that!!?? huh!? huh??!!)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:35:39 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-12-2005 03:13 AM                       
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Pardon me. I forgot to add that 'together forever' does not neccessarily mean always physically together, and to anyone who has lost the people they love in this life, I offer you my deepest sympathies, and apologise for perhaps making you re-live painful memories...


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:36:11 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-12-2005 06:34 PM                       
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Ducky,
Even though you state that your love is not always returned to you - I think it is. I think you just don't recognize it.

If God is love - then love, by its nature is creation. When you give love - you create - and more love is in the world - hence you reap. To create is to love. Love extends outward simply because it cannot be contained. Being limitless, it DOES NOT STOP. It creates forever, but NOT in
time. God’s creations have ALWAYS BEEN, because HE has always been. YOUR creations
have always been, because you can create only as HE creates. Kind of that "if you build it - they will come...." - you're building - and it will come.

I think we become confused when we view ATTACK as love. Some relationships we set up - are not based on love - because we feel jealously, envy, possessiveness, etc. We think we can lose the love - so we try to protect it - we set up defenses - and in doing so - we bring about the attack - or what we view as a loss, or lack, of love.

The mind that accepts attack CANNOT love. This is because it believes that it can
DESTROY love, and therefore does not understand what love IS. If it does not understand
what love IS, it CANNOT perceive itself as loving. This loses the awareness of being;
induces feelings of unreality; and results in utter confusion. Your own thinking has done this, because of its power. But your own thinking can also save you FROM this, because its power is not of your making. Your ability to DIRECT your thinking as you will IS part of its power. If you do not believe you can do this, you have DENIED the power of your thought, and thus rendered it powerLESS in your belief.

Freedom is creation because it is love. What you seek to imprison you do NOT love. Therefore, when you seek to imprison ANYONE, including YOURSELF, you do not love her/him and you cannot identify with her/him. When you imprison yourself, you are losing
sight of your true identification.

We are told that love is to be found in a gold ring - but it isn't.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:36:50 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-12-2005 07:10 PM                       
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Rockessence,
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I knew you were female after reading some of your other posts, but didn't know much else about you other than your obvious (not to mention very thorough) knowledge of civilization in the Baltic. If it means anything to you, I believe that the love we feel in this world endures into the next. Love truly is everlasting. I know you will find your beloved again. Death is just a phase of existence, it is not the end. Your husband is no doubt watching over you, and we do our departed loved ones honor by remembering the good times we had with them rather than dwelling on the tragedy of the end.

Bluducky,

As for you, in my opinion you are one of the most articulate people here and you should never be ashamed to express any of thoughts or feelings you might have. I debated with myself whether to even start this thread initially because, in a forum where people tend to thrive more on intellectual debate, I didn't know how many people would want to add to something that is, by it's very nature, quite non-intellectual and wholly emotional in spirit. I did so out of purely selfish reasons: to try and get to know something more about each of you. If our beliefs in God say something about ourselves, in my opinion, our beliefs in love tend to say even more.

"The life which is unexamined is not worth living." Plato, Dialogues, Apology



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:37:52 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 01-12-2005 07:45 PM                       
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Bluducky, I don't think you said anything "sissy," in my opinion the real men are the ones who express their feelings. Actually, it takes genuine courage for one to express their true feelings. Saying "I love you" to someone when you actually mean it for instance. That is not an act of cowardice, for instance. Personally, what I believe makes a man a man is to have honor and truth above all. Be true to yourself, never lie, and don't run from responsibility, but embrace it. That's what makes a man in my book. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:38:17 pm
Tina Walter

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   posted 01-12-2005 08:35 PM                       
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I knew you were female, too, Rockessence, because I think I saw you mention it in one of your other posts. Can I ask, what got you started on ancient north history? I know it's a little off the topic here...


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:38:49 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-13-2005 12:32 AM                       
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Wow, everyone!
First, thanks for the good words....

When I quoted "Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all..." I was not refering to my sweet Jack, but the lucky ones before him!! Speaking about lust now, (after the ridiculous early attempts that most go through) I always felt that sex was a rite, expressing the most ancient of energies....that each of us SHOULD be God's gift to men/women....I never intended to have a "mate" until the best man in the universe would present himself...luckily he did.

I had always felt that that man was moving towards me. And that he was my mate before and would be again after....Maybe as mate or brother or father or sister or daughter or mother.....we are in large soul groups and various members of that group show up at various junctures of life to aid and abet. Maybe to turn a corner or to open or close a door, or to help us discover truth.

Blu,

The only sissy thing are those happy faces!
Stop using those and your testosterone will no longer be hidden!!! I love you too...

I wish I could quote Edgar Cayce here...That the entity (you or I) needs to examine the desire to have someone love us. Is it because we want to know that we have value by someone else?....

You are right that it never ever dies or that it always lives...before this life AND after.

And keep your heart open...on every thread here please!

And thanks for the kind words...

Tippy, Great stuff!

Dawn, Thank you...

Tina, Back to Hyperborea! I stumbled on an article in Nexus over a year ago, about the Bock saga, then did a web search...The tie in for me: I was born in northern Greece, Half Macedonian....a blond Greek, now I realize, perhaps the blond Scandinavian/Achaean connection... Also, in my 20s I hitched around Europe and LOVED Norway! At the time I felt they were most beautiful(hearted) and civil people on the planet. I really long to visit Scandinavia again.

The Bock saga really ties into this thread's subject, as I see it. The whole key to the problem of love and lust(sexual expression) is that the heart/mind/spirit should be in a coherent and balanced society where all are equally understanding of heart/mind/spirit. That was the culture of PA RA DIS, the Golden Age, before Ice-time. Amazing, that a ball of fire(meteor)(male)plunged into Gaia(Water)and produced: ICE....

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:39:22 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-13-2005 12:41 AM                       
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Quote from: Tippy
I think we become confused when we view ATTACK as love. Some relationships we set up - are not based on love - because we feel jealously, envy, possessiveness, etc. We think we can lose the love - so we try to protect it - we set up defenses - and in doing so - we bring about the attack - or what we view as a loss, or lack, of love.

I think love needs to be a part of a person's basic education, if it's going to require a technical understanding, such as that in your post! Well done!

Quote from: Dawn
Bluducky,

As for you, in my opinion you are one of the most articulate people here and you should never be ashamed to express any of thoughts or feelings you might have. I debated with myself whether to even start this thread initially because, in a forum where people tend to thrive more on intellectual debate, I didn't know how many people would want to add to something that is, by it's very nature, quite non-intellectual and wholly emotional in spirit.

Thank you for noticing, however, not everyone feels as you do. I have just finished reading a little piece of 'hate mail' sent to me by a person who feels quite differently, and considers me intellectually inferior, and unworthy of participating in educated banter, even going so far as to criticize my odd name which has become so familiar and accepted here.

I am by no means aversed to this discussion, (as you all know by now ) and I feel it DOES have a place here. Let the snubs keep their psuedo-world, but let the REAL people with real feelings embrace reality, and join in. It's only human, after all


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The life which is unexamined is not worth living." Plato, Dialogues, Apology
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then let us pray we all live lives worthy of examination.
You're doing a wonderful job contributing to the personal side and 'community feel' of AR, Dawn, I commend your efforts.

Quote from: Trevor
I don't think you said anything "sissy," in my opinion the real men are the ones who express their feelings. Actually, it takes genuine courage for one to express their true feelings........ Personally, what I believe makes a man a man is to have honor and truth above all. Be true to yourself, never lie, and don't run from responsibility, but embrace it. That's what makes a man in my book.

I couldn't agree more!

You know, I made a thread about this, we discussed what makes a man a man, and THIS would fit in beautifully

Perhaps we ought to start a thread asking 'what makes a woman a woman?'. After all, every woman is an enigma, and men need all the info they can get!
(I feel some jokes coming on...)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:39:53 pm
Absonite

Member
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  posted 01-13-2005 04:23 AM                       
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tippy,
is that from ACIM?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:40:25 pm
HereForNow
Member
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Rate Member   posted 01-13-2005 08:07 AM                       
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Outside of being a family man, I have yet another love that is self-rewarding. Adventure! There is a kind of romantic attraction to doing something you can't talk a best-friend or "Big talker", into doing.
I won't get into telling you all about my "Fun". I can tell you that at 9500 ft.,
being told to "let go" is a total orgasm of both fear and delight.

I've been told to slow down with running with the devil and take time to enjoy life other ways.
I can't think of anything that makes me feel
more complete then saying, "I did it".....
I may one day end up hurt or even killed doing some of these things. It's a consecquence of what I do. Love is one of those things that can either make you 10 feet tall and bullet proof, or it can make you burn inside like the sun. No matter what,
loving others and the world seems to be more important to me then being loved.

I feel that someone out there has to care.
Why not me? Caring for others is one more thing a person can do to find love.




------------------
The world must change!
This change starts with ourselves.....


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:41:22 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-13-2005 11:01 AM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tippy,
is that from ACIM?

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Pretty darned close....



Are you familiar with that line of thought?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:42:38 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-13-2005 04:27 PM                       
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quite,
nice to see it pop up once in awhile.

You're just full of surprises

and all this from such a rocky beginning.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:43:13 pm
Tippy
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   posted 01-13-2005 06:02 PM                       
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That's me - a suprise a minute.
But seriously, it is from the Urtext of the ACIM. Do you have that? It is the actual Hugh Lynn Cayce edition that somehow disappeared from ARE headquarters.

I had originally read the commercial copy and had no idea the Urtext was so different. It contains all the passages to Helen from the begining - and quite an interesting supplemental schedule.

A few years ago I stumbled upon a site that was arguing the validity of the copyright and out of nowhere (a non-trackable address) - it appeared in my Inbox. It's quite something. Illegal as all get-out but well worth the effort to track down.

Do you have it?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:44:05 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-13-2005 08:50 PM                       
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Tippy
The way that copyright challenge to ACIM came about was on the heels of the Urantia papers copyright challenge. Urantia foundation(5 people) had been suing everyone for many years for quoting from the book or using the name Urantia and in essence controling every thing remotely connected with the revelation.
The courts finally went the full route when a wealthy believer took the copyright challenge to the top. The 9th circuit decided that an apparently channeled work from celestial beings cannot be copyrighted and the copyright renewal was invalid, putting the material into public domain.

ACIM people were watching the outcome very closely due the the similiarity of the case and the ACIM trustees were beginning to control the course in a similar fashion. Apparently IIRC Helen although admitted channeling Jesus copywrited the work in some way to avoid the legal entanglement of copyriting a channeled work from celestial beings. The exact details I cannot remember accurately.

I just had a normal copy. I have several first editions of the Urantia papers 1955 which sells in the neighborhood of 1000.

I enjoy the perspective of ACIM in that the point of view is from the absolute level consistently.

Unlike the UB, which reveals the Absolute and all the levels down to us. The excellence of this is the understanding and ability for the reader to recognize and move through the different circles of spirituality and more or less reflect on progressive enlightenment and his/her place in the cosmic drama evenuating into eternity. It allows one to remain mortal while striving to grow in a positive spiritual direction.

ACIM lives in the only place where miracles can happen,...... the present.

Although the finite can never hope to understand the infinite, it nevertheless is the destiny of all who set out to find and know God and God's ways and God's will.

It is tough to live in the present all the time and ACIM recognizes the unreality of time in the absolute sense of eternity but it's failing is that the bar is set too high for so many.

The great accomplishment of the Urantia papers is that they were written as a collaboration of many different beings in all levels of spiritual development and a great difference in duties and functions. The intergration and coherency is on a level of near celestial perfection. I have heard it referred to as a literary symphony and I have personally experienced the tone and timbre.

Many UB readers who are also ACIM students are powerful spiritual personalities with a keen understanding of the tadpole eventually becoming a frog or the caterpillar becoming a butterfly. It makes you laugh sometimes when the atheist or scientific "prove it" mentality rears it's ugly head so often. The really fine scientific minds recognize the vast difference between the material and spiritual realms. Was it Einstein who said he wanted to know the mind of God, everything else were merely details?

The greatest difference between ACIM and the UB is that the UB is an epochal revelation whereas ACIM was a personal revelation. that became epic in proportions. ACIM is similar to what happened with John and his book of revelation except that John's became adulterated and changed and he was not able to personally understand much of what he was shown. ACIM seemed to come through pretty pure from what I could perceive.

When one finally begins to see with the eyes of the spirit it is quite easy to see truth where ever it appears, whether it appears in the Emerald Tablets or Deepak Chopra or Wayne Dyer or even George Bush.

I was quite surprised when I met my first person who had obviously reached his 3rd circle. There is actually a light inside that comes on and is visible through the eyes. It is as if a candle was lit where there was darkness before in that body. What is remarkable is that the recognition of it in another is your realization that the same light of God also dwells within you. Sometimes it is a confirmation that you also are on the same plane spiritually and sometimes it lets you know not only that you have far to go personally, but also that it is attainable.

I'm sure you have understood everything I have said. Now if I can only live it a little better that would probably get brig off my ass.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:44:45 pm
 
Trent

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Member # 2174

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   posted 01-13-2005 09:40 PM                       
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"Hate mail," Bluducky? Anyone we might know..? 
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:45:16 pm
Tina Walter

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Member # 2195

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   posted 01-13-2005 10:09 PM                       
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quote:
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Perhaps we ought to start a thread asking 'what makes a woman a woman?'. After all, every woman is an enigma, and men need all the info they can get!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then we wouldn't be so mysterious.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:45:46 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-13-2005 10:21 PM                       
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Well, I don't know actually. I'm not sure if he's a member here, but he seems to know a lot about this place (mentioning it specifically), so maybe he is? He has targeted me for whatever reason, and decided to abuse me quite audaciously. (all in 'good intentions', he claims.)
Oh well.. he's but another pebble on the path...

(and hopefully that's the last of it)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:46:40 pm
Trent

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Member # 2174

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   posted 01-13-2005 10:41 PM                       
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Well, it sure doesn't sound good intentioned to me. Have you made any enemies here or rubbed anyone the wrong way?
(Have you gone out of your way to rub anyone the wrong way??)

I can see how some people here tend to take the debate a bit too personally, and to go out of their way to make it personal, too, if you know what I mean...


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:47:17 pm
HereForNow
Member
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Rate Member   posted 01-13-2005 11:06 PM                       
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I was quite surprised when I met my first person who had obviously reached his 3rd circle. There is actually a light inside that comes on and is visible through the eyes. It is as if a candle was lit where there was darkness before in that body. What is remarkable is that the recognition of it in another is your realization that the same light of God also dwells within you. Sometimes it is a confirmation that you also are on the same plane spiritually and sometimes it lets you know not only that you have far to go personally, but also that it is attainable.
The awakening! Seeing the amber color of things in darkness. Knowing things and you don't know how you know them. Feeling almost everything and yet nothing was said to induce this awareness. Closing your eyes and lifting up your hands to heaven and feeling the cleasing.

Knowing that you are not from here and can not convince yourself to "GO"......
Others who are of this awakened status telling you that you have already choosen to "stay"....

I have not choosen I tell them. They then say "Then come"........

It's so close.
I have the answer and still this question eludes me.........
Absonite, I feel that this is what you are referring to. If I'm wrong then it sure won't be the first time. If I'm right,we have lots to talk about later.....
Possibly another great topic?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:47:41 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 01-13-2005 11:23 PM                       
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Bluducky,
You went to the cinemas alone?

No girlfriend? Is that why you're a sad Ducky..?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:48:14 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-13-2005 11:58 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tippy
here is a good site for the ACIM copywrite drama and includes the 2001 loss of the UB copywrite.

http://www.jcim.net/time_line.htm

You might also find something of value here
http://www.ubook.org/articles/timeRevBHunt.html

.

[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-14-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:48:44 pm
bluducky

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Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 01-14-2005 07:52 PM                       
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Trent,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, it sure doesn't sound good intentioned to me. Have you made any enemies here or rubbed anyone the wrong way?
(Have you gone out of your way to rub anyone the wrong way??)

I can see how some people here tend to take the debate a bit too personally, and to go out of their way to make it personal, too, if you know what I mean...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never gone out of my way to 'rub someone the wrong way', but I have said a few rotten things in my time here  (but I get along well even with those people)

one day has passed since, and no follow up, so.. I've got good feelings

some people are so rude...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You went to the cinemas alone?
No girlfriend? Is that why you're a sad Ducky..?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, it was something of a family outing over the school holidays. My family gathered as many people as they could, and we went to the cinema together  It was nice...

(we saw 'The Incredibles')

On a sidenote, dear Jennie, how old do you think I am? What is YOUR personal idea of me?
(its a fair question, I think)

(PS: No girlfriend, btw, but that's not why I was sad when I coined my odd name)

This thread is waaay off topic now.. Sorry Dawn..


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:49:11 pm
Jennie McGrath

Member
Member # 2197

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   posted 01-14-2005 10:17 PM                       
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"Some people are so rude."
Ditto to that.

Blue One, I regard you pretty favorably. Most of what I have seen you write here seems pretty articulate, like Dawn said. I would also say that you have done a lot of reading. I see you as a young guy in your mid to late twenties, who has probably been to college and has a mostly cheerful out look on life. Am I right?

What prize do I get if I am?


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:50:49 pm
bluducky

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Member Rated:
   posted 01-15-2005 12:15 AM                       
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Short answer: No. All wrong, although the outlook on life seems quite accurate.
Mid to late 20's, eh? Not correct.

Perhaps i'm still a teenager, but am simply advanced for my age? (if that's the case, you make me sound OLD!)

Were you right, I'd compliment you, but...

wanna try again?

AS far as prizes go, I'd best not tell you what you WOULD have gotten had you guessed correctly, because if I tell you, you'd cry with grief, seeing as now, you won't be getting it.

Oh, the mysteries of me


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:51:22 pm
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 01-15-2005 11:12 AM                       
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from Zodiac

it is irresponsible to go around deleting threads like that. It's not just your work, it's everyone's work, and it's read by the world.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disappearing threads


Warning to all posters

Anything you post in a topic created by this person or any of her new aliases will be deleted by her without notice.


Warning IP: 205.188.116.9

Docyabut, SpiritWalker, Petunia and Lucy Fur are the same person.


Docyabut, this housewife from Ohio, with nothing better to do than post nearly 4000 posts of inane banter just deleted another complete topic...... The Burgeoning EUGENICS movement ..... with over 3 pages of information and replies from numerous posters.

This is not the first time she has done this. After she deleted the entire Urantia Papers topic with over 3 pages of information and numerous posters replies she was warned about her socially arrogant and irresposible behavior. She ignored the advice and arrogantly responded that they were "her" topics and she could do whatever she damned well pleased.

I disagree.

In the future I will no longer respond to her in any fashion nor post in any topic she begins.

be warned that this is her IP address

IP: 205.188.116.9


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:51:58 pm
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 01-15-2005 11:40 PM                       
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Okay Abs, how about a NEW approach.
Instead of NOT posting (which would really be a shame) how about saving everything you DON'T want deleted, so that it's retrievable?

If I could, I would enforce a rule stating that you MUST give a week's notice BEFORE you delete a thread, but hey, I don't have total control (yet *snicker* ).

(Abs, after reading (figuratively) countless posts from Spirit stating that Doc should be OFF the list, I must ask: Are you sure you're right about this?

It is a dissapointing thing when you're accused of something you're innocent of. (my recent hate mail springs to mind...(your accusations are similar in that they are focussed specifically at a person who MAY be innocent of the charges..))

If in doubt, let it go..

I hope you do the right thing.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:52:29 pm
Jennie McGrath

Member
Member # 2197

Member Rated:
   posted 01-16-2005 02:20 PM                       
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Wow. Well, I promise not to delete any of my topics, no matter how snotty anyone gets to me on it.
Alright, Bluducky:

Early twenties?

No college?

You can't read??

Now you have me confused!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS far as prizes go, I'd best not tell you what you WOULD have gotten had you guessed correctly, because if I tell you, you'd cry with grief, seeing as now, you won't be getting it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wha..?

Please explain!


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:52:59 pm
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 01-16-2005 02:44 PM                       
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Well, I have received another piece of this lovely 'hate mail', and this time "The gloves are off" I am told, and I "Had better be careful from now on".
puh.. It's so fun having admirers

Miss Jennie, if you're THAT intrigued by me, you are more than welcome to email me, or send me an ICQ/MSN message. I will answer you then.

(You DO know that curiosity killed the cat, don't you?)


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:53:29 pm
Zodiac

Member
Member # 2231

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   posted 01-16-2005 09:41 PM                       
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Bluducky, who is the "hate mail" from, Docyabut, SpiritWalker, Petunia, Lucy Fur, or perhaps a combination of all of the above?
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:53:59 pm
rockessence

Member
Member # 1839

Member Rated:
   posted 01-16-2005 09:45 PM                       
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Great discussion on the origin of LOVE.....?? 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:54:35 pm
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 01-17-2005 12:08 AM                       
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If I knew, I could tell you, but as the case may be...
Rock, we WERE discussing love. If you have something more to contribute, by all means, be Dawn's guest!


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:55:04 pm
Jennie McGrath

Member
Member # 2197

Member Rated:
   posted 01-17-2005 08:40 PM                       
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Bluducky,
It sounds like you have more than enough admirers at the moment.

(What is an ICQ/MSN message?)

I give up. I can see why you prefer to keep such personal details about yourself a secret, though, here, as people here would doubtless derive preconceived notions about you and use said details against you!

You're from Australia anyhow, ain'tcha? What's it like living there?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:55:39 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-17-2005 11:25 PM                       
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Thank you Jennie, you've hit the nail on the head that time. Too much information about myself (or anyone else, for that matter) can, and DOES sometimes find it's way back to haunt you. I'm completely innocent, and yet, I have attracted vile hatred somehow...
(You've never heard of ICQ? Or MSN Messenger? They are chat programs that let you talk to each other 'live'...)

Yes, I am from Australia 

right now, it's hot, and a storm is fast approaching, as is common this time of year. (it's eerily dark right now, though still light time)

I can't stay too long right now, so please, excuse me. 

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:56:08 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-18-2005 01:43 AM                       
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Edgar Cayce Reading 900-331

Think on This ...
To live love is to be love. To be one with the Father is to be equal with the Father, and as the understanding of the entity is gained in the application of truths gained the consciousness of truth is apparent--for, as has been given, to love is to live love--not the answer of desire or of amorous affection, but is all in one--for love is law, law is love.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:56:36 pm
Absonite

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  posted 01-18-2005 03:09 AM                       
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Roxy
nice music isn't it?
Now,......that's harmony.

All of this of curse must be founded on the premise of bill clinton's pondering the divine as to what the real meaning of IS is. The egyptians and bible-code breakers like Calvin? or the Duck might believe that in reality that would mean Clinton was secretly ISIS reincarnated.

Some would even suggest that Love was the desire to do good to/for someone else.
It was mentioned earlier that there are some real wacked out beliefs among 6 billion people what exactly doing good for someone else might mean.

It would be necessary to further elaborate on what might clarify the conceptualizing idea/pattern to mean having the attributes in some manner indicitive of Truth; Beauty or Goodness.

 

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:57:03 pm
rockessence

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   posted 01-18-2005 11:12 AM                       
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Dear Absonite,
Are you calling me Roxy, or musing on Roxy Music? It could go either way....Interesting... the relationships between mus-ic, mus-ing, Muse, a-muse, mus-eum...now,...that's harmony, too!!
You mus-t not have meant to say: "All of this of curse...", but nevertheless, a wonderful mus-ing on Clinton!

Well, none of us are responsible for any but our own beliefs and activities...

Can you clarify your last sentence, please?

More later....

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:57:45 pm
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   posted 01-18-2005 11:03 PM                       
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Hmmm, sorry that everyone has had so much trouble here lately. I'd like to say that I don't ever intend on deleting any of my threads either, what has been written should stay written.
We do seem to have wandered a bit off track, haven't we? But that's okay, no need to be structured about anything.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:58:12 pm
bluducky

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   posted 01-19-2005 03:05 PM                       
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Tis true, Spirit has never sent me any 'hate mail' in any shape or form, and these accusations of multiple personalities has gone too far.
Absonite, I respectfully request that you re-assess your accusations against both Spiritwalker AND Docyabut, as it doing nothing but upsetting Spirit, who, as far as can be seen, is innocent of all charges EXCEPT deleting threads.

I think you've got the wrong 'man', Aby..

(I'm feling tempted to delete every post of mine in this thread that is NOT about love. I will say no more here, unless it is about love. My apologies again, Dawn)



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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:58:38 pm
Dawn Moline

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Apolgies accepted, Bluducky, but no need to delete anything, we'll be back on the right track again. Soon.
Spiritwalker, be at peace. Let's not let this carry on any further and all try and put this unpleasantness behind us. It's not doing anyone any good.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:59:06 pm
Spiritwalker
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I agree Dawn. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 11, 2007, 11:59:57 pm
Absonite

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  posted 01-20-2005 10:39 PM                       
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Roxy,
then we would all be muslings and you have already started. You are correct, curse started out it's short life as course and in the course of correction curse looked like it would work just as well for the musling, so it began it's short life a typo but enough so as to be given the breath of life by your eyes only, . so, if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear........??

The last line of the muse worked well and since God is Love and Truth, Beauty and Goodness all lead to Love, then,......

and further clarification was had as your request led me in search of added meaning and value. to wit:

To finite man Êtruth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe -- and they know that God is love.


Love is the desire to do good to others.

Sorry for my delay in answering but I am recovering from lingual hernia surgery on monday. My pain threshold has exceeded 10 for more than 48 hours straight, on a scale from 1-10 which I fear cannot be used as a defense for any prior mental aberrations but does seem to put some things into perspective, at least the ones of a transient material nature.


.


[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-21-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:00:25 am
HereForNow
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Rate Member   posted 01-20-2005 11:19 PM                       
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Bold is he to have this til old.
To deny is to be left so cold.
When the rain falls who will think of thee?
Pass not the tears that must fall from thine eyes. These are there because you filled them with all that was good. The smile after is the power of what you know. Knowing is why it is power. Rise and hold forever this thing that gives light to the darkness within. May the steps that direct you lead you not away from it. LOVE is why we are, and shall be.....

The insanity writer:

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:00:57 am
Stacy Dohm

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   posted 01-21-2005 01:17 AM                       
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Nice poetry, HereForNow, very nice.
Absonite, I sure hope that you feel better...
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:01:30 am
rockessence

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   posted 01-21-2005 01:46 AM                       
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Absonite,
I am glad to have asked you to elaborate, especially in the moments of pain and suffering, and perhaps of opiates as well...

My take on it all:

"since God is Love and Truth, Beauty and Goodness all lead to Love, then,......"

I have heard this idea all my life, and I don't wish to quibble that much, but I deeply feel now that "God" is a matrix of light energy that can be accessed or tapped by any of us...."Truth" is merely what is, and what WE make it. "Beauty" must remain subjective, but "Goodness" should more exactly be called "Godness".

Above you, and I, and all other humans, resides the "God-self", the Individualized I AM Presence. A gathering of Perfect Light Energy. We live life with the only tool given to humans: free will... We have nothing but choices to express in life, every minute and second. We can express "God-ness" or express "Human-ness"

The I AM Presence is in a constant state of readiness to express "Godness" through us.

It has been a long time since I have thought of "Divine Father" or "God of Fatherly Love". That is just because of my own personal journey. We are all on our own road, and moving toward our Ascension or away from it. None have the right to change the course for another, not even the Ascended Ones have that right. We, with our one tool, choose to live in Light, or not.

We are generally kept from knowing the real "Rules". We are told a "Truth" which is far from what really is the case....That Godness is not separate from us and can be expressed at all times.

I no longer worry about finite man...All that is finite is mere energy, coming and going....I AM, as God-self, able to say: Let there be: and the cosmos conforms to the WORD. As HE said "Ye shall do ALL THIS AND MORE..."

Divine Love, Wisdom and Power...

"I AM completely relaxed, at the source of this pain..."
"I AM this surgery completely healed and I AM feeling comfortable..."
"I AM healing quickly and becoming stronger and more healthy than I have ever been..."


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:01:58 am
Spiritwalker
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I hope ya feel better too Abs.............!
blessings

[This message has been edited by Spiritwalker (edited 01-21-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:02:33 am
Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 01-21-2005 08:31 AM                       
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Love is never having to say you are sorry.
love is forgivness.
Human beings, descended from the angels, and the ability to love is of God's gift to us, perhaps our one saving grace amidst a sea of troubles.

You sure it is a gift cause it is a double edged sword.

Love hurts too.It is not easy but maybe in the long run it is worth it.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy; but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Matthew v. 43-48.

[This message has been edited by Spiritwalker (edited 01-21-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Spiritwalker (edited 01-21-2005).]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:03:05 am
Absonite

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  posted 01-21-2005 08:28 PM                       
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oxy,
you certainly are a puzzle to behold......... those mental meanderings


You are almos ready to contemplate "Before Abraham Was I Am"

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:03:40 am
Absonite

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  posted 01-21-2005 08:36 PM                       
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Stacy thanks. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:04:08 am
Absonite

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  posted 01-21-2005 08:38 PM                       
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Spiritwalker thanks for the kind wishes.

[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-21-2005).]
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:04:35 am
HereForNow
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Hi again Stacy and thank you for the complement.
If you get the chance come and check out the underground thread I have up.

It has lots of good material that may have something to do with everything that is posted in all the ancient mysteries threads.
Some of the great minds of this forum have been adding some awesome information.
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:05:02 am
bluducky

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   posted 03-05-2005 10:27 PM                       
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I'm not sure where we are in this thread, but it feels comfortable. (and a little too quiet, i think)
Back to love...


I have a somewhat scientific view of what we have been discussing here (love), thanks to an article I have read recently, and I think it is about time to “science up” this topic a little.

In 1988, Physical Anthropologist Helen Fisher noticed that divorce statistics from 62 UN countries going back to 1947 ALL showed similar statistics.

The statistics seemed to show that people tend to divorce around the four year mark. To Fisher, “it clearly suggested that divorce might not be a cultural malaise but an aspect of our inherited mating behaviour.”

She looked at “pair-bonds” in the animal world, and discovered that many animals stayed together only long enough to rear a single litter through infancy. (for humans, a time frame of about 4 years)
Most couples, of course, survive past the four year mark, so, what is the ‘glue’ that holds them together? Friendship? Dependency? Sexual heat?

Most of us assume that LOVE is responsible for this, but, as Fisher seems to have discovered, lust, infatuation, and long-term attachment are all separate and distinct drives:

“Lust is not love. Lust is driven by brain chemistry, plain and simple. But it’s a dangerous game, sleeping with someone just for sex, because your levels of oxytocin and vasopressin will go way up, and you’d better be ready for the consequences. These powerful chemicals produce feelings of attachment, and you can easily become emotionally involved with someone who’s quite inappropriate.”

Romantic love, or infatuation, is associated with a different barrage of chemicals. Romantic love produces dopamine, which generates obsessive feelings about the sexual partner. This is characterized by ‘intrusive thinking’ of your loved one. People who are infatuated testify that they’re thinking about their loved one at least 90 percent of the time. It’s no wonder people in love feel so messed up!

This feeling of infatuation ensures that if a pregnancy occurs, both parties will stay together, and raise the infant.

But… this feeling of infatuation fades with time. Why is that? Is it possible that the brain’s nerve endings get used to the high levels of natural stimulants? Or does the level of the chemical begin to drop? Either way, it takes two to three years for the feeling to subside.

How can you preserve your feelings for your loved one?
By picking the RIGHT person, for a start. And “then establish some mutual goals and stick to them. Infatuation is a free ride, an overwhelming physiological and psychological experience that can swamp the rational mind. It is blissful when it is returned, excruciatingly painful when rejected.”

Couples who survive the death of infatuation can then make the transition into ‘attachment’, as the attachment chemicals, oxytocin and vasopressin grow.

Attachment (as you probably noticed) uses the SAME chemicals as lust, oxytocin and vasopressin, which. unlike dopamine which revs us up, calm us down.

Now, how do we tell who is the right person? Out of the billions of people to choose from, how can we pick the right one?

That’s another story all together, but I personally think it has something to do with interests/personality/character.

(Do looks matter? They are, after all, the FIRST thing that grabs your attention… and we haven’t even discussed pheromones, and physical attraction)

“love” is a tricky game…

(someone else's turn to take over)


------------------
My karma just ran over your dogma.


 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:05:31 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 03-06-2005 10:23 PM                       
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Thank you for reinvigorating this thread, Bluducky, and many interesting points you did raise. Pheromones and physical attraction do play an important early role in intial attraction, and lust and love may come down to chemicals in the brain, but for myself, I hate to reduce these things to just those scientific terms. I believe that love is our gift from the gods, and when we make love with one another, it's how we speak to Heaven. I believe that many fundamentalist relgious people encourage us to suppress this all-too-natural urge, when it should be nurtured and better understood. Lust is a calling, and it it happens between a man and a woman with such clarity, than I believe at least that it must be right. Why would God give us such a natural gift, then tell us that we couldn't use it?
Many of us have built our lives around love, the longing for it, then both the giving of it and receiving of it. Where would the world be without love? A world without God would be bad enough, a world with love would be utter madness. Then, that just happens to be my point of view. It need not be the correct one.

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:06:00 am
Sun Goddess

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   posted 04-06-2005 01:20 PM                       
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The strongest and also the most tragic kind of love is the unrequited kind. Everyone has an infatutation in their past that has been left unfulfilled. But how strong would that love be if it actually were fulfilled? The fact that people are left wanting something is what makes it tend to grow more and more. It may also be said that that is what keeps us alive as human beings - wanting something, whether it be a quest for romantic fulfillment or not, it is our desires, whatever they may be, that tend to keep us alive. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:06:28 am
unknown

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   posted 04-06-2005 02:44 PM                       
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What about love at first site, and I don't mean lust. There is a very real difference. It happens,
happened to me.

Someone you have never met before but instantly feel like you have known them for a million years.

Which comes first the attraction/connection or the chemical rollercoaster ride?

Has anyone hear ever met someone and had an instantaneous dislike for them with no good reason?

[ 04-06-2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:06:53 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-06-2005 03:00 PM                       
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Yes, unknown, I do it all the time. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:07:24 am
bluducky

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   posted 04-06-2005 07:48 PM                       
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Unknown,


quote:
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Which comes first the attraction/connection or the chemical rollercoaster ride?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The simple answer is the chemicals.Always the chemicals. (it is the chemicals within YOU that make you feel that way. Dare I be so presumptuous as to say it has almost NOTHING to do with the other person? I think yes.)

As for not liking people, well, I like everyone, but admittedly, some people do make me NERVOUS. (but it is mostly their mannerisms that put me off) (Jerky movements, staring straight through me, loud tone, 'loud' body language, extreme immaturity, recklessness, etc)

----

I will admit some BIAS about love at first sight:

I don't deny that it happens to some people, but, personally, I don't EVER want it to happen to me, or my significant other. It would kill me  absolutely destroy me...

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:07:54 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-06-2005 08:02 PM                       
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There are people that I have met at once and had an intense dislike, one even perhaps bordering on hatred (although I wouldn't quite go that far). I have always had an innate ability to size up a person upon a first meeting and know, at a glance, what that person is all about. I believe it is a special gift that God gave me, to see true evil in all it's forms. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:08:25 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-06-2005 08:04 PM                       
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.

[ 04-06-2005, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Calvin Noble ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:08:56 am
Pagan

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   posted 04-06-2005 08:47 PM                       
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quote:
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There are people that I have met at once and had an intense dislike, one even perhaps bordering on hatred (although I wouldn't quite go that far). I have always had an innate ability to size up a person upon a first meeting and know, at a glance, what that person is all about. I believe it is a special gift that God gave me, to see true evil in all it's forms.
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Well, that pretty much sums up what I've seen about you in a nutshell, Calvin, and it's no wonder that you make a habit of rubbing people the wrong way if that's you attitude.

Doesn't the Bible say something about "Judge not or be Judged" or something like that?

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:09:27 am
Pagan

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   posted 04-06-2005 08:49 PM                       
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By the way, love the Bush icon, makes me feel like I'm talking to my dad.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:09:56 am
Norman Pounders

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Pagan, I don't see anythng improper about Calvin's use of the Bush icon, it helped me in making my own selection.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:10:25 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 09:39 PM                       
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Let's talk some love here, people!

Is someone less in love with the person they're with if they begin fooling around on them behind their back? I have a friend of mine who's boyfriend has spoiled her rotten. He's a really nice guy, a gentleman, which is part of the problem: she got bored with him. He was too nice - opening doors, always showing up on time, buying her flowers, very rarely acting like a jerk. Anyway, to make a long story short, she fooled around on him, decided she was better off before, and felt like a tramp for doing it in the first place. Trouble is, by the time she came to all these conclusions, he was so furious that he wanted nothing else to do with her. Dumped. Left right out in the cold.

To the guys out there, is there anything she can do to make things right with him? She has already made certain overtures and been rejected. Other than this one incident, she's a pretty nice girl, all other things considered, and doesn't usually act like this. How can two years of happiness just get thrown away like that? 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:10:58 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-08-2005 09:56 PM                       
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Michelle, everytime I hear one of these hypotheticals that starts out, "I have a friend," I always know that it's the person doing the talking that committed the act and just doesn't want to admit it publicly. You're the one who was cheating, not your friend. In answer to your question, you may get back with him, in fact, I would be surprised if you didn't, but the trust has been ruined completely by you and he'll probably never look at you in the same way again. From this point on, your relationship is doomed to utter failure. And as for the "two years of happiness, just getting thrown away like that," I have to remind you, it was you who did thee throwing.

Answer your question?

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:12:16 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 10:17 PM                       
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Wow, Aristotle. How remarkably perceptive and wrong that was. No, it was not me, it was my girlfriend, leave it alone. I could get into an argument with you over this, but the truth is, you don't know me enough to judge and it wouldn't solve my problem.

You said my friend would "probably get back with him," well, care to say how? Cause my friend is out of ideas of explaining how sorry she is and needs some new ones. Once she does get back to her, she is fairly certain she can make him fall in love with her all over again. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:13:12 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-08-2005 10:26 PM                       
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Okay, fine, whatever, let's have your Dear Abby moment. I could browbeat a confession out of you, even over the Internet, but it's really not worth my time. Any girl can pretty much get whatever she wants from whoever she's seeing by just tears. No man worth his salt ever wants to see a woman cry. We have no real idea how to deal with it, and always tend to feel responsible for it happening. We also tend to want it stopped any way we can. But that still wouldn't help you, in the long run, he's still not going to trust you (excuse me, your "friend,"  ) and when the years go by, three years, four years, and he still hasn't asked you to marry you, you'll know the reason why: because he can't trust you. You have destroyed trust. This man trusted you and you let it slide for the sake of a good time. I must ask, would you trust you?

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:18:58 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-08-2005 10:29 PM                       
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The Hooter Babes of AR

Why do all the icons of the women on this "bored" seem so voluptuous. Isn't that somewhat unreel? Do any of you actually look that good? Seemz funny that all these "Babes of AR " all have 5 starz. Are all thoze 5 starz for post content or for icon selection?
Methinks maybe we should change the catagory to include at least a 10 star rating. 
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:19:38 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 10:34 PM                       
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You know, that is really very harsh and judgmental. Guys cheat all the time and their wives and girlfriends always take them back. Cheating has become something almost expected of a man. A girl makes one mistake and all of a sudden she gets branded a tramp? That's not fair. If my boyfriend cheated on me, I would be pissed at first, but I would probably take him back, we have too much history together. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:20:12 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-08-2005 10:42 PM                       
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84:8.6 Let man enjoy himself; let the human race find pleasure in a thousand and one ways; let evolutionary mankind explore all forms of legitimate self-gratification, the fruits of the long upward biologic struggle. Man has well earned some of his present-day joys and pleasures. But look you well to the goal of destiny! Pleasures are indeed suicidal if they succeed in destroying property, which has become the institution of self-maintenance; and self-gratifications have indeed cost a fatal price if they bring about the collapse of marriage, the decadence of family life, and the destruction of the home -- man's supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization's only hope of survival.

Presented by the Chief of Seraphim stationed on Urantia.\


http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p084.htm


.

[ 04-08-2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:20:56 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-08-2005 10:49 PM                       
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Absonite:

Icon selection.

Michelle:

But it wasn't he who did the cheating, it was you who did the cheating. You destroyed a man's trust in you who wanted nothing more than to give you happiness, all for a good time. You even said, you were bored with him. The cheating is now a part of your history. The main part. Everytime he looks at you from this point on, he'll not only be staring into your eyes, he'll be remembering what you did, no matter how many times he tells you he's forgotten it. I get the feeling that a lot of the women that post at this forum might be somewhat attractive in real life, or at least think they are, and so, are probably used to getting a lot of attention. But it's bull to think that your looks are going to carry you all the way because the bottom line is a man has to trust the person he's committed to.

Oh, and the rules about cheating are different when it comes to men and women, like it or not. Men benefit from lower expectations. Most of us are supposed to be animals interested in only one thing so it's considered a rarity to find one of us who doesn't stray from his mate. Women are supposed to be saints by nature, and so, when one of you stray from the "moral path" you're given a whole list of names, many of them much worse than "tramp." And before anyone brands me a sexist pig for my comments here again, I remind you that each of you knows the rules just the same as I do, and it would be hypocritical to say you did not. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:22:03 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-08-2005 10:57 PM                       
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 8)
[ 04-08-2005, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:23:08 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 11:05 PM                       
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Thanks for the quote, Absonite, I've taken your advice and saved it. You sure don't find that kind of advice in the Bible.

Alright, I'll admit it, it was me. That's the reason why I'm sitting home on a Friday night. I screwed up, I said I was sorry, and I remain unforgiven. You mentioned tears. Well, the funny thing is, he was the one who cried, not me, and I don't think I've ever seen a guy cry before either. It wasn't much, just a couple of tears, but it felt awful, like my whole world was ending, I hated that I was the one to hurt him. We had this really special thing going, and I just tore it all down.

Funny thing is, I always was one of the prettiest girls in class, but it never meant much to me, I never really cared about being "popular," or anything like that, was just interested in studying. I'm still a total bookworm. In the beginning, I was actually the one to ask him out, and all the time we were together, all two years of it, he kept telling me that one day it would come to an to end. I kept telling him it wouldn't. I'm like this total optimist and he's Mr. Doom and Gloom. I suppose I got a little bored because I realized that there was no way I was going to make him realize that it was going to endure no matter what I did. Then, in the end, he was right, because I guess it didn't last. I want to be forgiven, I want to be looked on with trust again, and if I'm not, it just wouldn't be the same. And if it wouldn't be the same, if there's no longer going to be any future in it, like marriage or anything, then I guess it would no longer be worth it to try and keep it alive, so I guess it would just be goodbye.

Curt, if you're out there, I'll tell you again, I'm sorry, buddy. I meant it when I said I gave you my heart, but you never trusted me enough to give me yours all the way in return, and so I guess it ended just like you always said it would. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:23:42 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-08-2005 11:17 PM                       
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Absonite: Well, not to crow...

Michelle: Big news there that you were actually talking about yourself the whole time. Well, you're young. You're still in college so you'll have plenty of opportunities.

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:24:08 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 11:25 PM                       
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That's it? No real advice? Man, if Dawn or one of the others were here, I'm sure they'd at least be a little nicer.

What brings you both here on a Friday night anyway? 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:24:46 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-08-2005 11:29 PM                       
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Michelle,

I'm glad you liked that quote, everyone who has ever read that revelation usually hilights it. It's funny how truth is recognized in the soul.

Anyway,
perfection is the goal, not how we start out. Monagamy is the ideal and of course the perfect pattern. But, we are little peanuts of potential and this ideal of perfect harmony is very unrealistic for most everyone. It is the rare relationship that works well. Very rare indeed. Consider the divorce rate being well over 50 %. and probably 49 or the other 50 is unhappy. Somebody lucks out or is wise enough in this short lifetime here to find their ideal soulmate. It's like hitting the lottery.

The sex thing fades as you know and so something much deeper is the answer.

If you ever do read that book, and you read the real story of Adam & Eve, you will see what really transpired and how much they loved each other. Adam loved eve so much that after her default (which was not sex btw) he engaged in the same act in order to share her fate. This of course resulted in the planet Earth suffering even today, but, his love for her and her for him reigned supreme and even today they are together. It is the master plan for society and good will among men.


http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p073.htm

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p074.htm

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p075.htm

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p076.htm

I certainly hope it works out for you. The journey is eternity and that can be spent with one person as friend and lover and the adventure can be shared together.

My prayers go with you.

 :)

[ 04-08-2005, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:25:25 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-08-2005 11:38 PM                       
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Well, Absonite just gave you some fine advice.

By the way, I'm a poor grad student without a lot of money to go out, I'm here on a lot of Friday nights. And Monday nights, and Tuesday nights, Wednesday nights and Thursday nights...

One thing I've learned, you can't repair the past. Best to just move on...

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:26:33 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-08-2005 11:42 PM                       
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Ari,

you get an extra star for that deep insight *****
 


Michelle

if this just happened tonight, i know there is a lot of pain going on. But always remember time wounds all heels.   :)
Seriously though, next year will be here soon enough. You can only do what you can do. Right now deal with you career. Man cannot serve two masters, one must suffer. If your relationship is the one that suffers at least do well with the other. You will be surprised what good success and a lot of money bring and who they enable you to meet.

This will be a valuable lesson for you to learn when you are ready to settle down and have a family and fidelity. None of us get through this experience without falling down many times. You already know that. If your wound is fresh, give it time to heal. Besides, he might even have a few confessions for you to hear.
Lot's of luck sweetie and remember God doesn't live in the past or future He can only inhabit the now.   
 :)


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:27:16 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-08-2005 11:55 PM                       
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Absonite, thank you for your prayers.

I used to have it so together, but today I feel like such a mess. I suddenly woke up this morning and realized, after all our plans, that I'm suddenly facing the future alone. There's no turning back to what it was, and I realize it's never going to happen for us again. Aristotle just seemed to confirm what I already knew in my own heart. I'm usually an optimist, but today the feeling hit me just like a cold fist. I have this vague dread about the future, and I don't mind saying I'm more than a little scared about what's going to happen next. The feeling isn't happening in a good way either, it's like I didn't just lose a person, but my whole feeling of security, too. Everything has all just become so blurred and it all feels just so cold and ominous...


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:27:43 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-09-2005 12:02 AM                       
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Michelle, you'll excuse me for interrupting, but I have been reading this discussion and I'd like to ask you a question: did you have premarital relations with either of these men? And no, I don't ask this out of sheerly religious purposes, but because I've observed that when people have marital relations out of wedlock, it tends to cheapen the relationship as a whole. When people attach less importance to these encounters, consequentially the relationship also is given less importance.

--------------------
"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:28:10 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-09-2005 12:08 AM                       
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Oh, here we go. Now it's time Calvin gets to tell you that you are a woman of low moral character. Go away, Calvin, we've heard it all before.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:28:42 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 12:13 AM                       
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I have no real advice for you because you have to do this alone but if you look like your icon, you won't be alone for long.

[ 04-09-2005, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:29:07 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-09-2005 12:15 AM                       
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Aristotle, the difference between Michelle and Veronica seems to be that Michelle is repentant, while Veronica is not. The lord shows mercy on those who ask for forgiveness, and so, I do as well. We are all sinners, whether we choose to see the fact that we are sinners and apologize for it, that, to me makes all the difference.

--------------------
"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:29:50 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 12:16 AM                       
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see God is always watching.

 :)  :)  :)
   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:30:32 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 12:21 AM                       
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Now if anyone asked me to bet on the odds of that happening, I would have lost big time,
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:31:01 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-09-2005 12:36 AM                       
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Absonite,

I don't think I could do ten years alone, and the kind of alone I feel now happens even when I happen to be with someone, if you get my meaning. Sure, I know a lot of guys and still tend to get asked out quite a bit, but they're not Curt. There was a familiarity I had with him that's missing now, and I don't think that I'll ever get that same comfort level back with anyone else ever again. It feels so alien just trying to get to know someone new. You get to know someone's likes and dislikes, all their moods and their history, you have those special moments that you store in the back of your mind, then suddenly, you're starting from scratch and all the things that happened suddenly don't mean anything at all.

Calvin,

In answer to your question, sex with both men, well, yes to both counts. I don't tend to give each the same level of importance, though. One was a cry for help, or maybe just a plea to get attention. It was a fling over spring break that lasted only briefly. The other was a relationship I was in for over two years.

Cut me a little slack before you start in on the moral judgments, alright? Please..? 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:31:37 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-09-2005 12:56 AM                       
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Absonite, please explain this quote:


quote:
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84:8.6 Let man enjoy himself; let the human race find pleasure in a thousand and one ways; let evolutionary mankind explore all forms of legitimate self-gratification, the fruits of the long upward biologic struggle.
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Does the Urantia Book actually encourage man to sin? For it seems it does. And this is the advice you would offer this confused, wayward girl: to sin some more.

Michelle,

I sympathize with you, but the basic problem here, not just with your situation, but that of society as a whole, can be seen in your reaction towards your troubles. If you would have practiced just one simple rule - abstinence, no sexual intercourse - feelings would be spared, hearts would not be broken (not the least of which was your own) and clarity would arise. Having sexual intercourse with a man who is not your husband is Satan's plan. Your doing so, with either man, is clearly what has placed you in the quandary you are in now. And I defy heathen here to argue differently. Satan has performed his works in this confused young girl, and look at the moral toll it has taken on her.

When I say that each of us must consider ourselves parents to not only our own children, but to all the children of the world, this is the kind of example I mean.

--------------------
"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:32:06 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 12:58 AM                       
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Michelle,

You will find out that there are a lot of real good guys out there/here whatever.

You just can't see them yet, they are invisible to you.
I'm not speaking wacko, you know what I mean.

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

You have not lost everything, you have gained an experience and a valuable one. You now know the value of something that has real value to you now. You learned it the hard way like almost everyone of us does. It doesn't matter if the girl next door has it, you have to have it and now you do. Now you have a stronger character. You have been tried and tested and this time you failed the test, next time you won't. You will be a rock.


.

[ 04-09-2005, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:32:43 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 01:05 AM                       
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Calvin

I've told you before that you were an idiot.

I posted the whole quote, don't try to take it out of context and then claim that it says something that it doesn't. Only morons do that or someone as devious as you and satan.

You're playing with the wrong guy and the wrong revelation.




Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:33:13 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-09-2005 01:08 AM                       
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Fine, Calvin, now that you've had the chance to give your latest lecture on morals, let's get back to a substantial discussion.

Michelle, the facts are cold and hard, but they're also true. Put aside any thoughts you might be having about a permanent reconciliation because it's just not going to happen, not the way you want it to anyway. Best to just move on, start over with someone new and leave the past behind. It's just not going to happen like you want it to.

I suppose someone should give you credit for confessing to all this, at least, especially with hypocritical fundamentalists like Calvin in the "room." It would have been easy for you to play the "friend game" and keep claiming this actually happened to somebody else.

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:33:43 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-09-2005 01:57 AM                       
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Absonite, demean me as you will (and so, also shun the teachings of the lord), but the quote speaks for itself. Do you deny that premarital relations were the cause of this young girl's quandary? I would like a yes or no answer to that question. And, if you do agree with me that Michelle's sexual relations were the cause of this problem (and who could not), then please explain why she should not have practiced abstinence instead of the advice you provided?

Now then, if the girl were to follow the advice on your quote, seemingly to sin all the more, this time, without shame, her confusion would only increase, not lessen. In fact, I could see Michelle heading into a downward spiral of more regrets, and further promiscuity. The young need to be led, but led down the right path.

--------------------
"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:34:26 am
bluducky

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   posted 04-09-2005 03:40 AM                       
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Well, I had a long, thought provoking reply lined up, but I see it's not necessary.

But I WOULD like to comment on Calvin Noble's posts here.

I agree with them. Simple abstinence WOULD have saved all of the involved parties heartache, and dear Michelle would not be feeling so guilty. (nor would her dear Curt have left her with such sorrow)

I am proud to say that I have waited, and I DON'T regret that decision. Because of that, I think I am a much happier person than I would have been otherwise. The difference between me and those who don't wait, is I don't have those bad feelings of guilt at the back of my mind, no questions of "but, if, or why".

(yet again, this isn't about ME, is it?)


I still have my particular brand of wisdom on this issue, if it is wanted, but until then, I wish Michelle the best in her efforts to get her man back.

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:34:58 am
Absonite

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  posted 04-09-2005 05:59 AM                       
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The problem is, Calvin, that even though you speak some words of truth mixed in with your insanity, it is similar to satan speaking some truth as well mixed in with his b.s. .

I'll take the quote you are distorting for an example to start with. You apparently overlooked the qualifying word " legitimate" in your zeal to try to distort or find something evil with this revelation of truth. Your only objective is to attempt to find something negative in order to discredit this and therefore remain addicted to your biblical garbage. I don't blame you, it will be very disturbing to your psyche' to oneday admit that it is mediocre at best and you never want to see that day of personal pain.
If you were truely honest with yourself you would read the whole link I provided and you would have found that it lies at the end of an entire chapter entitled "Marraige and Family Life".
If you were honest with yourself you would realize that you are only seeing what your own mind is concocting with your preconceived notions. When you read something like "enjoy himself in a thousand and one ways", you are dreaming up a negative connotation to those ways. It is all in your own mind. This is quite obvious by you saying "follow the advice on your quote, seemingly to sin all the more, this time". It doesn't say that at all, nor does it mean that. You have some major issues Calvin that require real psychiatric help.

And just for the record, I do not agree with you that pre-marital relations were the cause of her "apparent" problem.


http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p084.htm


.

[ 04-09-2005, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Absonite ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:35:35 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-09-2005 06:33 AM                       
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Well "IF" don't cut it .

We all make mistakes we all learn from our mistakes, If this relationship was meant to be nothing would stop it.

Michelle, you say he was a doomer and gloomer, and you are the optimist, well, perhaps you two were never meant to be together in the first place, better you break up now then after you are married with children, if you were happy you would have never cheated.

Forgive yourself and move on, I see so many unhappy relationships.

Michelle I am a firm believer in everything happens for a reason, every mistake we make in life becomes a valuable lesson that we pass on to another. Even if we are just there to comfort another who is suffering similar circumstances.


For I find I can relate to the pain and suffering of others, through my pain and suffering.

Always remember once I walked in their shoes.

Jesus said , he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Well HUGS............you are young, beautiful, and intelligent...........I have children who range from 36 years old to 16.........I been doing this motherhood thing a long time, I have a life time of regrets over mistakes i have made we all do .DO NOT carry the burden of "GUILT", it serves no purpose.

My suggestion is go outside yourself, get involved with helping others, don't rush into a new relationship, I seen that really backfire a lot of times.

Take this opportunity to reflect on you life and where you want to go with it.
Xoxoxoxoxox, I have a daughter named Michelle.

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:36:06 am
rockessence

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   posted 04-09-2005 10:59 AM                       
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Michelle,

Guilt pangs and physical pain are similar.

Guilt has a shelf life of about 3 minutes or less. When one feels it one must act immediately to redress an error. Longer than that and it begins to poison(attach to) the etheric body and will have to be dealt with in a big way later.

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:36:46 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-09-2005 09:07 PM                       
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Bluducky,

I see that we are finally in agreement again on something. Michelle's indiscretions were at the root of her problem. Young people today do not realize the value of abstinence. It isn't simply for religious purposes for a person to remain abstinent, but psychological ones. Note the confusion it has created in Michelle, both physical and spiritual.

Absonite,

You would come to this conclusion, too, if your hatred of the Bible were not so readily obvious.


quote:
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And just for the record, I do not agree with you that pre-marital relations were the cause of her "apparent" problem.
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And just what other alternative would you suggest? I have read the passage from the Urantia book that you suggested and see mainly a history of marriage, not a code of how married couples are to lead their lives. It is clear that children read these forums, and that the words we print here set an example for all to follow. And so, I ask again, if abstinence was not the original course for this girl to follow, what alternative would you have her take?


quote:
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You have some major issues Calvin that require real psychiatric help.
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And yet, you are the one to place the Urantia Book, written by aliens, above the Bible.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:37:21 am
Sun Goddess

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   posted 04-09-2005 09:23 PM                       
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Sexual intercourse is not the problem here, often, it brings about life's finest moments.

Michelle,


quote:
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I meant it when I said I gave you my heart, but you never trusted me enough to give me yours all the way in return, and so I guess it ended just like you thought it would.
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This speaks volumes.

To me - and bear in mind I'm only going by what you've told us - this man probably did feel that you were too good to be true, felt unworthy of you the whole time, and drove you into the act of betraying him. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably never felt at ease the whole time. There are a lot of men out there who don't realize a good thing when they see it, either because they tend to look for something more or don't feel they have earned it when they come upon it. At the root of each one of us, men and women, is a basic insecurity. It's a shame that you couldn't communicate better, perhaps a wonder that it lasted two years. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:37:47 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-09-2005 09:35 PM                       
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Bluducky,

I would love to hear any advice you have as well. I respect everyone's opinions here, but think you always raise some pretty good points. I read in another part of the forum that you said you were sad, well, take it from me, there's no feeling sadder than this. I'm usually
an upbeat person that's why this all feels so strange to me. The only one that I can blame is me, it wasn't he that did the cheating, he was
always very faithful, it was me. Like I said, the only one I can blame is myself. I feel so hollow and empty now, like my whole life seems to be unravelling at once. There's no end in sight for me either on this. I feel just as bad today as I did yesterday. With my friends, I can usually pretend to be in a good mood, but since I laid all this out there for you all to see, I can't put up a brave face.

Calvin,

I know you're very religious, but I don't think premarital sex is at the heart of this. I don't believe that people should sleep around a lot, but if you're in a long term relationship with someone (and ours was like two years), I don't see anything wrong with it. It's almost like we were married in the first place. After I got communion, I stopped going to church. I've only been with about three people. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:38:17 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-09-2005 09:46 PM                       
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Ishtar,

Well, what can I say other than marriage, family, kids, we talked about all of those things when we were together. We were going to have two kids, a boy and a girl, we were going to get married once we graduated college, even though he never officially proposed. I can't take any comfort in any of this and I don't see my life ever getting any better at this moment. We may have been different types of people, but I
believe that opposites attract. One tends to complete the other, you know? I think you sort of need someone who is different than you, who has other experiences, who you might even argue with sometimes in order to reach the best part of you. There may be other guys but there will never be another Curt, he was the first person I ever really fell in love with, the longest relationship I ever had, and each day I feel more lost without him. They say you never know what you had until it's gone. Boy, is that the truth. I remember times when he used to kiss me and it just felt like the end of the world, and now he won't return my phone calls. I once told him that I would never leave him, then, in a flash, all at once, I just confirmed all his worst fears. I hurt a good man that never hurt me and who always put my own happiness before his own. And now, I have nothing to show for it other than lost dreams, with the realization that I was the one responsible for losing them.

Rockessence,

I like your words, but guilt lasts so much longer than three minutes. And I can't put into practice what you speak of because in theory, it's a nice idea, in real life, when you've lost the one you love and you were the one who was responsible, well all you end up doing is feeling hurt. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:38:44 am
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 04-09-2005 10:01 PM                       
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Well, I've been reading this whole story, and, of course it's pretty sad, but doesn't anyone think that Michelle herself bears some responsibity for this? We all would like to support her, because she's our friend, but she does also seem to be the one that is most responsible. I've been on the receiving end on these types of things, I think that a lot of men have, and it's just as bad for the guy, actually, it's even worse. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:39:13 am
rockessence

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   posted 04-09-2005 11:56 PM                       
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Michelle,

What you are describing is grief, not guilt. Grief for loss of much more than the man...for loss of the marriage, the children, the life...the image of yourself as the wife and mother.

In Rock-Medicine the treatment for pangs of grief is holding rose-quartz.

Amazingly, this really works to bring comfort...while you let some time pass and have a chance to absorb your new self. No hurry....If you ask for it, you can make whole new you!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:40:22 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-10-2005 10:50 AM                       
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I am sorry Michelle, I hope you find happiness, a matter of fact I believe you will, time heals you know, but there will always be that question "What if", I have a LOT of "What If's"

but that is life, it throws you curve balls........nothing, I mean nothing, is carved in stone, just when ya think you have it all figured out ......life slaps ya in the face and says...........NO.

Trevor I am sorry I understand.

Everyone is hurting from something or someone, somewhere, on this planet.

How do you survive....?

one day at a time. I have had a LONG , HARD life, made more then my fair share of mistakes, been beat up pushed around, loved and lost, loved and won,........I am old and tired, YET, sometimes I feel HOPE, and the flowers are still beautiful and babies still make me smile, that's life and we learn from life and all we can do is pass it on.

This is one reason I hate giving advise, usually people don't really want it...........lol

Because WORDS just don't cut it when you are hurting..........

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

[ 04-10-2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:41:52 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-10-2005 11:20 AM                       
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Ok Michelle, I will tell my story, it will make you sound like Mother Teresa.

Born into a family with an abusive mother.

Sexually molested at age four......

Repeatedly tried to commit suicide

Married pregnant at age 17,had two children by the time I was 18, to a wife and child beating husband, cheated on him and left him for someone who wouldn't beat us, I have been with him all these 37 years.

Was an alcoholic, for most my adult life used drugs, been drug and alcohol free for 18 years.

My oldest son and daughter are alcoholics.

Been homeless,lived without heat, water, or electricity, a car, food, or money, but managed to survive, with two babies.

Survived two life threatening illnesses.

Burried my parents, grandparentsand two sets of twins.

Most of my life has SUCKED.......Most of it was my fault.

AND IT AINT OVER YET BABY!!!!!!!!!!

and that's just the tip of the iceberg

[ 04-10-2005, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:42:27 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-10-2005 11:21 AM                       
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OH I almost forgot all this and guess what i wanted to be when I grew up................................A missionary.........LMAO, guess god had other plans huh?

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:42:55 am
Ishtar

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  posted 04-10-2005 11:23 AM                       
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gee that just made me

cry...........

have a nice day.

[ 04-10-2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:44:01 am
johnee

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  posted 04-10-2005 07:05 PM                       
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Ahh… don’t cry Lady Ishtar...... 

 :)
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:44:55 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-10-2005 09:31 PM                       
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quote:
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Well, I've been reading this whole story, and, of course it's pretty sad, but doesn't anyone think that Michelle herself bears some responsibity for this? We all would like to support her, because she's our friend, but she does also seem to be the one that is most responsible. I've been on the receiving end on these types of things, I think that a lot of men have, and it's just as bad for the guy, actually, it's even worse.
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Trevor, Michelle already has taken responsibility for it, but what else do you want her to do? If you would like her to get down on her hands and knees and apologize to the guy, I imagine something like that has already occurred and she's been turned down.

And even if it is worse for a man, it's probably better in the long run that he doesn't take her back, for both parties. Could you ever trust someone completely who cheated on you in the past? You would never look at her again in the same way, regardless of your feelings.

Ishtar, sorry about your past. We may not have the same stories, but many of us all have our own share of sad stories. Hang in there.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:45:25 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-10-2005 09:32 PM                       
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quote:
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After I got communion, I stopped going to church. I've only been with about three people.
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In girl talk, double that figure and you probably have the true number. Sorry, Michelle, I've usually found that to be true.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:46:11 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-10-2005 09:42 PM                       
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Ishtar,

I'm so sorry for all the pain you experienced in your life. I'm sorry for the physical abuse you suffered, sorry for your physical illnesses, sorry that you were homeless and that you had to live out of your car, nobody should ever have to do that. I'm sorry that things got so bad for you that you thought about ending it all. What can I say? I wish I could take all the pain that everyone feels in the world in life on a day to day basis and just make it go away.

I feel like a jerk when I compare my own story next to yours. I come from a middle-class background, we never had a lot of money but we never struggled like other families. My dad died three years ago, but before he died, he made sure I would be able to go to college. I'll always love him for that. While he was alive, I always knew I was his princess. He died of a heart condition, very suddenly, and I'll take the sight of him dead in his hospital bed with me for the rest of my days. When I kissed him goodbye on the forehead, the touch was cold, almost like kissing a cement floor.

And that's where Curt kind of came in. He didn't look like my dad, he didn't act like him or talk like him, but in a very real sense, he became my dad all over again. Not only that, but he became brother, lover, best friend, confessor, soulmate. I can't tell you how close we were, we kept no secrets. My friends always used to ask me what I saw in him, but the thing was, I never knew why they didn't see the same things in him. Whenever I needed to hear a nice word, there was Curt, whenever I was crying about something stupid, there was Curt to make me feel better about. it. He was my protector and my guardian, he took care of me in ways that no other man ever has except my dad and I can't even put into words just what he meant in my life. I only know myself because of the great void I feel now he's gone. All the time we were together in the last two years, time I was busy waiting for a marriage proposal that I probably would have accepted in a second, and he was waiting for that one terrible event that would happen in our relationship that would bring it all crashing down to an end. "Girls like you never end up with someone like me," he used to tell me. And I told him that I would never leave him, and then went and gave him that excuse. And I'll never forgive myself for that, for causing so much pain to someone who only wanted the best for me.

I went out with some old friends last night and it's been so long since we actually hung out together, we don't even have anything in common anymore. I've spent so much of my time with Curt that I feel like I've become another person than the one that used to be their friend.

I can't go on like this. I was going to use this weekend to study, but have been so messed up that I can't even concentrate. I was a straight A student, but I have been worried about this so much that I couldn't even think straight. I have a test tomorrow that I know I'm going to bomb. And the worst thing is, even though Curt isn't calling me, the guy I cheated on him with is. He calls me all the time, wanting to see me again. I want nothing to do with him, at school, I'm too ashamed to even look into his eyes. He wants me, but the one I want is Curt, I know that now, and I think I'll take whatever role he'll give me so long as he lets me back into his life in some way. How can I get back the man that has meant so much to me, how can I not let this whole thing slide away? 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:46:45 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-10-2005 09:44 PM                       
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Rockessence,

I am describing grief, and grief and loss on such a horrible scale that I'm not sure that any therapy can help me with at the moment. Thanks for the advice, though, I might try it out later. Today, I had such little energy that I just sat around watching TV, even though it was a nice day out. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Dawn Moline on December 12, 2007, 12:47:36 am
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 04-10-2005 09:52 PM                       
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Better in the long run? Better for who? She's miserable, I know from past experience that he's probably very miserable, too. It's terrible when the girl you love cheats on you or dumps you for another. It's the worst feeling I've ever felt anyway.

Yes, sure, Michelle is attractive and intelligent and will probably find someone else to treat her just as well in the long run, women always have a lot more options than men do, especially the attractive ones. But that doesn't solve his problem, or do I mean their problem. 

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=5


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:21:30 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-10-2005 10:04 PM                       
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Well, welcome back, Michelle.

My advice hasn't changed much from the other night. Drop it, you are not going back the same relationship you had before regardless of what you do. There will always be that same quality of suspicion.

Trevor, you're suggesting Michelle make some kind of overtures to her ex-boyfriend. What you're forgetting is that she has already done that and been turned away. If he wanted to get back together with her at all, they would have at least talked about it and it sound like they haven't.

Also, I gather you think that she should get back together with him at all costs, but that doesn't work either. The more you have to demean yourself in order to be with someone, the more pride you have to sacrifice, the less respect they'll have for you later on.

Michelle, dear, if you humiliate yourself in your efforts to win Curt back, the worse he will treat you later. Not only will he remember how you screwed around on him, he will also know that he can get away with treating you like crap, and will hold both things over your head.

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:21:48 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-10-2005 10:14 PM                       
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I don't care how he treats me, I want Curt back! I want to be forgiven and I want to be able to look into his eyes again, I want to feel his hand on mine. I want all the plans we made to still be on. I want this to all be just some bad dream and that I didn't just wake up one day and realize I screwed up the only thing in my life that ever meant anything to me.

I know somewhere in his heart, he still loves me, you don't just wake up one day and stop loving someone.

Can't either of you come up with some credible suggestions how I can win him back? You're both guys, what would work for either of you?
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:22:07 am
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 04-10-2005 10:21 PM                       
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Well...I'm the wrong person to ask. I would probably take you back in a second, then I don't think anyone has ever loved me like you seem to love him. He's really very lucky to even have your love, most people go through their whole lives without knowing love like that.

Having said all this, Aristotle is right, though. No matter how attractive you are, no matter how many good times you had together, the fact that you were unfaithful will always be in the back of his mind.
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Posts: 269 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:22:26 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-10-2005 10:33 PM                       
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I gave you my suggestions the other night, just like Absonite gave you his, and Ishtar and Rockessence, gave you yours. We're all saying the same thing to you in different ways: let it go.

You wouldn't want someone around to treat you like crap, and the other night you were at least more honest when you said you wouldn't want it either if there was no future. Stick with that. You can't undo the past. The damage is done. Find someone else and learn from your mistakes. With the possible exception of Calvin, no one here is judging you on your mistakes because we've all made them, too. If not those mistakes, than other ones.

One last thing, all of us like to glamorize the past, but as Ishtar said, if things had been all the perfect to begin with, you would never have been cheating to begin with. Don't be too hard on yourself, it's not the end of the world. It may seem like it, but it isn't.

--------------------
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:22:49 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-10-2005 10:50 PM                       
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How can I make you understand, I've already learned..?

This feeling, it's just so empty and miserable. I want somebody to tell me there's hope, that we can get beyond this, but I guess that's just not going to happen is it? No one can say it, because it isn't the truth.

It feels like the best part of my life is over. For the first time in my life, I don't know what the future will bring and I don't mind saying I feel so very cold and scared...
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004  |


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:23:21 am
Anassa

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   posted 04-10-2005 11:13 PM                       
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Michelle
I'm sorry about how you are feeling over all this. If I may, from reading your posts it seems to me that Curt became a replacement for your father after he died.
By being always there for you his presence gave you the security you needed to go on. You mention that word a few times.
Sure you miss him in your life but do you really miss him as a lover or is it more as a friend and confidant, or even a crutch?
Like Aristotle and the others said, if your relationship as a couple was so solid, you would not have cheated in the first place.
Do not go back to Curt at any cost. You will lose your self respect in the end trying to make it up to him, and if you don't respect yourself Curt won't respect you either.
Stop beating yourself up and do something nice for yourself because in the end you are the only one you can ultimately rely on.
It may take some time and a bit of grief but you will get there.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2005 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:23:42 am
Scorpio5

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   posted 04-10-2005 11:38 PM                       
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Michelle, no one is telling you what you want to hear, not only because it wouldn't be truthful, but because in the long run it wouldn't help you anyway.

Cheer up, though, though, I've found things always get their darkest before the dawn.
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:24:05 am
Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 04-11-2005 05:11 AM                       
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quote:
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You have some major issues Calvin that require real psychiatric help.
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And yet, you are the one to place the Urantia Book, written by aliens, above the Bible.
[/quote[


OOH Calvin, Aliens huh?

I see that since you read the Marraige section and now you can't use that quote for something negative you've regrouped and now come back with the alien thing for a new assault.
Gooly, guess what.
Jesus was an alien, God is an alien, Adam & Eve were aliens, the entire Trinity are aliens, the angels; the Cherubim; Lucifer, Satan, Beezelbub are all aliens, Poisidon, Zeus and all those guys were aliens, Just what exactly do you have against aliens? 
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Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:24:36 am
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-12-2005 12:14 AM                       
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Well, Michelle, I'm about to give you an early Christmas present because, if you feel guilty about cheating, let me tell how bad I was. I realize that an Internet forum is probably not the best place to bare one's soul, that people who fancy themselves moralists like Calvin are all ready to sit back and pass judgment, but I didn't want you to feel alone in admitting to your mistakes. And I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, least of all Calvin. I've been sexually active since the age of fifteen, and there was a time in my life where I couldn't even have a relationship with a man without cheating. I'm still only in my mid-twenties, but I have already had several times the experience that you've had, in the past, I've even been with women. Because I originally lost my virginity due to a ****, I considered all men animals and it didn't matter to me how I treated any of them because they all seemed the same. Only now, have I begun to realize that there aren't, that there are good men out there, worth more than I ever gave them credit for. At the time, I cheated because I wanted to see how much they loved me, and so, I always tried to hurt the person who cared for me the most. Most men were so blinded by my looks that they would take me back no matter how bad I was, which would make me treat them even worse, even cheat on them all over again. I would actually work to destroy any feelings they might have for me, and any I might be developing for them, as well. I would let relationships with men who wanted nothing more than my happiness slide away, men who would sometimes worship the very ground I walked upon, all because I fell into the habit of treating the person that cared for me the most like utter dirt. You had one infidelity, I had several, and even today, I can't even say that I've fully reformed, especially with the sex. I still date a lot, and, even if it's a first date, one way or another I'll end up in bed with them. My life has been one filled with empty sex with men who sometimes cared about me, but often times didn't. I let myself be taken advantage of, repeatedly, even though I have always been smart enough to know better. I rarely go a week without sex, yet when it's all said and done, it's gotten me nothing and no one. No one to tell my problems to, no one to grow old with, maybe even who truly cares if I live or die. Unlike you, despite all my experiences, I've never known true love, just the physical sensation of love. And even though I've been engaged twice, all I have to show for it at the moment is the fact that I'm alone, in a gossipy little college town, with a very bad reputation. I've something like a physical addiction to sex, but since I've already said too much already for those who are easily offended here, I won't go on anymore about that for now other than to say it's gotten me into a whole lot of trouble.

Well...those are the regrets of a misspent youth, right? If we all knew in advance what we know later, I suppose we wouldn't be human. I was selfish and cruel towards all the men that cared about me the most and I cannot tell you how badly I feel towards all the men I've hurt over the years. It's not even enough to say "I'm sorry" to them now because you have no idea how awful I was at my worst.

Well, despite your troubles, you're far luckier than I've ever been. I may be in the minority here and probably also the last person you'd want advice from after all I've said, but my advice is this:get back with him at all costs. The worst thing isn't how he might treat you, but ending up with someone who might treat you a lot worse. You deserve better than to settle for less than what you really want or even to be alone. It's been my experience that all men tend to be lonely, whether they want to admit it or not, like women are, and need us desperately in their lives. If you have found someone you think you can trust, by all means, never give up and never let it go. There are very few people you can actually count on in this world, and oftentimes you can't even trust yourself to make the right decisions. Believe me, I know all about that. It doesn't matter if he was a father figure, or if you were complete opposites, or that you had one idea what future the two of you should have while he had another, it's all still love to me. A woman can always find someone to sleep with her, but finding that kind of love is rare. Learn from my example, but don't ever become my example. If I would have had the advantage of foresight, I would not have settled for the position I'm in now. I would have picked one of the many good men that I let pass me by me, be married myself already, started a family, with my own little ones on the way.

Love and Peace,

Veronica
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:25:32 am
Calvin Noble

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Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 12:22 AM                       
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quote:
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I know you're very religious, but I don't think premarital sex is at the heart of this. I don't believe that people should sleep around a lot, but if you're in a long term relationship with someone (and ours was like two years), I don't see anything wrong with it. It's almost like we were married in the first place. After I got communion, I stopped going to church. I've only been with about three people.
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Michelle, three people is still three people too many. And as for your sexual relations not being the cause of this, what in the world is? Then, you so casually brush aside the teachings of the church. You've sinned, you admitted it, but how in the world will you be able to be forgiven your sins if you don't first look to God? You are lost, young lady. You must repent, you must seek spiritual guidance, and you must strive to stay on the moral path from this point on. The answer to your immoral behavior is not to sin some more, it can only be found in the glory of God. Yes, brush aside the teachings of the lord, and stay a fallen woman as well.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:25:56 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 12:27 AM                       
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Well, Veronica, I don't know quite where to begin with this litany of all your past transgressions. Premarital sex? Sex with multiple partners? Sex with women?? Veronica Poe, don't you have any shame..? Veronica, how dare you parade the sordid details of your life as an example to this poor child. I take no satisfaction that your words about your past have, regrettably, confirmed all my deepest suspicions about you. I am deeply disgusted by what I have just read. Not only do you sin, and sin repeatedly, with your body, you speak of it shamelessly. Need I remind you that children might be reading this forum?? Don't you, any of you, feel any responsibility towards them? You have no moral standing whatsoever here, from this point forward, as I have said repeatedly (now confirmed) you set a poor example for others. I'm sure that even your friends here would now agree that you are a woman of low moral character, and so, not to be trusted. You have taken the womanly beauty the lord, in his generosity, bestowed upon an immoral heathen like you and made yourself no better than a **** with it. You should post no more of your immoral comments here and be cast out of this forum, and you would already be so had I been a moderator here. You set a poor example for children. I am deeply ashamed, not just for you, but for your father, who doubtless had to endure many a day of great shame with a girl like you.

I will pray for you tonight, Veronica, pray that a person so deeply promiscuous as yourself will someday find the lord, but I fear your way is set and you are already a lost cause.

As I said, Heaven help your good father and mother.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004  | 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:26:21 am
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-12-2005 12:31 AM                       
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Blow it out your a**, your right wing religious blowhard.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004  | 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:26:49 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-12-2005 12:35 AM                       
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Veronica, I can't speak for everyone, but I surely don't judge you. I think it took a great deal of courage to have a story like yours, then go ahead and tell it, knowing that idiots like Calvin are waiting in the background, all ready to pounce on you. Many of us have felt this story from the man's point of view, it was educational to hear it from the woman's point of view as well. Don't let it bother you, we're all friends here, and I support whatever you did, or will do, entirely. I just won't be asking you for a date anytime soon, because I doubt I could handle you.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:27:10 am
Scorpio5

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   posted 04-12-2005 12:38 AM                       
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Calvin, I hate to break it to you, but people do have sex, you know. Even while we're "speaking," all over the world, people are having sex right now.
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:27:32 am
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-12-2005 12:40 AM                       
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Calvin, you old, ugly repressed little toad, do you really think that anyone here even gives two cents to what you have to say? I may have a "sordid past," but you are nothing. No past, no future, you give yourself pleasure by trying to pass judgment upon others, by trying to hurt others. You have never contributed anything here but your own religious zealotry and bigoted opinions. Do you really think that anyone here even listens to what you have to say? You're seen as a clown here and that's all. As I said before, I couldn't care less what you think of me because you mean absolutely nothing to me.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:27:53 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 12:43 AM                       
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Veronica, demean me as you will, but I have copied and pasted the material you gave concerning your life story, should you decide to edit or delete that material in the future so that it magically disappears. I will use this material, if and when again you ever deem to lecture a child here on morals. I do not have it within my power to ban immoral women like yourself from the forum, but perhaps I can make you want to leave, if things come to that.

Having said that, I don't believe now that I wish to see you driven from this forum. I believe that your immoral words do more to make the case why America must be a more moral again than those of any other that I have heard here, save, of course, for your friend Dawn.

Young lady, I feel nothing but shame for you, and if you had been born my daughter, let's just say your life would have occurred differently. Very differently.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:28:13 am
Scorpio5

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   posted 04-12-2005 12:52 AM                       
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Calvin, isn't there some Bible study forum you can become a member of?

She's hot, you're not.
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:28:41 am
Zodiac

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   posted 04-12-2005 01:00 AM                       
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Veronica, baby, I am not one of those guys, but I am hotter for you than ever. I don't judge you, and I am sincere in my feelings. Trust me, we are not all animals. I would love to make an honest woman out of you, or just be content with the one you are now. 

I'll send you a private message, Veronica.
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:29:12 am
Anassa

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   posted 04-12-2005 01:55 PM                       
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Calvin Noble

Did you read Veronica’s post properly? The girl was RAPED. Could you not have spared a little venom for the attacker who tried to ruin her life? You have daughters don’t you? Shame on you as a father.

Your ungracious words to Veronica are not a reflection on her character. They are a reflection on yours, and if you carry out your threat to use her post to discredit her, the only one you will discredit is yourself. “If we do not love our brother whom we have seen, how can we love God whom we have not seen”.


Veronica
I know you don’t pay any attention to Calvin Noble but you are not alone. Many people can relate to how you feel.
I was abused as a child - not raped – but I blocked it out totally. I dated a lot of people all through my teens and early twenties and could not figure out why I kept flitting from one person to the next and then dumping them no matter how nice they were.

And Calvin before you brand me a harlot as well, I did use the word ‘dated’ as I was actually terrified by the thought of sex without really knowing why, and even at 24 when I eventually got around to it, the problems didn’t end there. I was 30 years old before I remembered what had happened as a child. The memory just came back suddenly and I was beyond angry.

Luckily I was old enough to deal with it and realized why I had kept following the same pattern of behaviour in relationships.
A negative self-image, lack of self-worth, guilt, and a disregard for your sexuality, are all common feelings after abuse. You feel you don’t deserve to be loved so unconsciously you push men away.

By treating them badly it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy ie. each time you do it you are convincing yourself over and over that you do not deserve to be loved because you will end up cheating, so you cheat yet again.

Your life and reality are often reflection of your thoughts. The more you think of and do something, the more the pattern becomes imprinted on the subconcious, which will continue bringing you the opportunities to keep acting out the same emotional dramas until you break the cycle by thinking differently.

Like I told Michelle, be nice to yourself. Look in the mirror every day and tell yourself what a great person you are. Even if you don’t feel it at first just keep doing it until it literally sinks in. A friend who used to do that asked a shrink if he was crazy and the shrink told him it was the best therapy he could do.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:29:35 am
Anteros

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Member # 1984

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   posted 04-12-2005 02:31 PM                       
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Michelle:

Maybe you can try making him jealous, without having sex with anyone else!

If that doesn't work then really do just walk away. Many times when a man senses that a woman who's been consistently doggin' him suddenly loses interest he's very likely to turn on a dime and come back to see what's up!

Veronica

Good God, girl... you're story sounds just like that of a good friend of mine. Age of first sex, ****, age in general, the way you treat men... everything. If I didn't know better I would swear...but nahhhh. Couldn't be.. right? 

In her case she had someone give her affliction a name, which I don't know if it's helped her at all but she seems to have finally calmed down. It's called "Philophobia."

Fear of Love. Apparently it's a real condition. I wish you, and Michelle, all the luck in the world.

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"A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of Powers we cannot perceive."

Rush --> "Freewill"

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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:29:56 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 04-12-2005 09:20 PM                       
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Well, sorry you feel that way, Calvin, because in real life, Veronica Poe happens to be one of my best friends and I am not going to have you, or anyone treat her in such a fashion. Especially after all the times she has stood up for me here. You have no stature to talk down to anyone . You are the biggest hypocrite in this whole forum, I doubt if even you believe half of the garbage that comes from your mouth, and you have, at best, a rudimentary understanding of the Bible. As Absonite said, you are what true evil is all about.

I would also like to add that it was probably that it was most likely the fatigue of listening to you, with your often warped point of view that drove away Bluducky. Also, that you are in the habit of treating women very poorly.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:30:15 am
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 09:32 PM                       
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Dawn & Anassa, I don't think that Calvin has been overly hard on Veronica, he's not insulting her, simply using her own words to make a point. She did say these things, did she not?

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:30:38 am
Norman Pounders

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Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 09:35 PM                       
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quote:
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You are the biggest hypocrite in this whole forum, I doubt if even you believe half of the garbage that comes from your mouth, and you have, at best, a rudimentary understanding of the Bible. As Absonite said, you are what true evil is all about.
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Dawn, this is a little harder than we are used to seeing from you. Don't you feel you owe Calvin an apology?

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:30:57 am
KMFDM

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 09:41 PM                       
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Michelle, you asked for a guys' advice on how to get back with your ex. Well, my advice would be to not get back with him. I had a friend that was in a similar situation as you. He got cheated on by a girl who he really trusted, they were even planning on getting married. Well, later on, she wanted to get back with him and he let her but by that time he had been carrying around a grudge big-time about it. He got back with her just so he could dump her himself, which he did, because by that time all the feelings he had were gone.

You seem nice except for that one mistake, so I'm telling you, don't do it. You'll only get hurt if you do.
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Posts: 30 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:31:19 am
Pagan

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   posted 04-12-2005 09:44 PM                       
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Calvin, I've noticed that you do tend to have a thing against women. Ever get any psychiatric help for that?

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:31:52 am
Pagan

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   posted 04-12-2005 09:46 PM                       
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Michelle & Ishtar, I feel kind of sorry for you guys after reading all this, but Veronica, I don't feel as sorry for you. Actually, other than the ****, your life sounds like it's been kind of fun, if you know what I mean.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:32:13 am
Pagan

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   posted 04-12-2005 09:47 PM                       
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You know, I wonder if anyone really loves each other or if they just use one another to satisfy certain biological urges. Then, when the urges are gone, the love is gone, too. I see a lot of talk about sex in this thread, but very little about actual love, other than maybe the love Michelle felt for Curt. I don't think that Calvin Noble loves anyone, with the possible exception of himself and George Bush.  Norman, on the other hand, is clearly in love with Calvin.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:33:06 am
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 04-12-2005 10:08 PM                       
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If anyone thinks I'm talking about my love life here and never hear the end of it from Mr. Holier Than Thou, they must be kidding.

I don't like tojudge anyone either, but in this case I'll say that you, Calvin, are a repressed homosexual bunghole with a deep sick hatred for all things female.
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:33:30 am
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 04-12-2005 10:55 PM                       
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Anassa, thank you, I didn't think that anyone else out there would even begin to understand. The memories of my attack are as fresh today as they were the night it happened, I didn't even have the salvation of being allowed to forget. And some days, I feel my self-worth hangs by a string. I let men use me in ways that most of you can only imagine. Some of them weren't even dates, I would just be at a party or the back seat of a car and things would just happen. People assumed I was cheap and easy and so, I just let them treat me as if I were cheap and easy. I have been to a therapist, but it hasn't helped any. I've given out my number to a lot of men, and one of them is always calling or stopping by. I'm too scared to change my phone number, because the only thing worse than what is going on in my life right now, would be to have none of them call at all and to be alone. And so, I am trapped back in the same old state of affairs. I would like to stop sleeping around, and yet, a part of me also knows that I will have no to keep me company at all unless I keep sleeping around. Such is the wreck of my life at the moment, and I would wish it on no one.

Peace and God bless you.

Dawn, what can I say? Thank you always for being my friend.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:33:53 am
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 04-12-2005 11:04 PM                       
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Well, Anteros, if your friend is anything like me, she has my sympathy. I hope she has you to talk to because often I don't, I have ruined most of the platonic relationships I have had with men in my life, and all the men who cared the most deeply about me I have managed to drive away. I don't put myself out there as any kind of pattern for anyone else to follow, I know full well all my flaws. I have a problem, I'll admit it, and I wish I could say I am cured of it, but as of this moment, nothing could be further from the truth. I consciously allow myself to be treated poorly by men, and even though I can see myself being taken advantage of from a mile away, there is nothing inside me that can do to stop it. The feelings are so intense they border on obsession. What can I say? I will never be mistaken for Snow White.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:34:17 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 11:17 PM                       
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Anassa, I would not presume to judge you, for I do not know you well enough yet to even formulate an opinion. It is my habit to study a person before I even before I become critical of them, for at first I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, Veronica, like her friend Dawn, has been posting at this forum for many months now, and of the two of them, I am now fully aware. I would think carefully before I related too closely with either of them, read some of their past posts and you will see what I mean. Neither is a good role model, but Veronica's posts are especially not fit for children.

Yes, I should have put a greater share of the blame on her attacker, and I do deeply apologize to Veronica for overlooking that one small detail. Yet, in my opinion, Veronica herself bears the most of the brunt of the blame for the life she led afterwards, and I will say that again freely. Her attack happened at the age of fifteen, if she is now in her mid-twenties, why is she still leading such a pointless existence? I can understand how the attack might explain an aversion to men, like you might feel, but how can the attack explain sexual addiction, numerous partners, relations with women, the countless infidelities? After a certain extent of these things, and after a full weighing of the facts, it would simply appear that Veronica simply desired such an existence, unless you can think of some other explanation..?

Yes, we must love our brothers and sisters, but we must be careful not to be deceived by them as well. What is your definition of immoral if it is not the sordid lifestyle of Miss Veronica Poe?
You mentioned my daughters, yes, I have two, both of dating age, who I do cherish. I am suddenly thankful that the troubles they have given me in the past have been quite minor in comparison to the ones I see here. And I am especially grateful that neither has the often crass mouth of a girl like Jennie McGrath. Had Veronica been born my daughter, I can guarantee that she would have had been given a strict Christian upbringing. She would have not sold her beauty cheaply as she does now, and she would not have wasted so much of her life on cheap promiscuity and low morals.

For the first time, Veronica's name entered my prayers last night, and I do indeed feel sorry for some of the things she has been through. However, only with strict discipline will she turn her life around, and while she still keeps coming here, I intend to give it to her, for her the good of her own immortal soul. It is clear that what has been always lacking from Veronica's life is a strong father figure, and so, from this point on, I intend to provide one for her, here at least. You are right in one sense, all this time, I have been treating her as an equal when I should have been treating her as a daughter instead.

Veronica, from this point on, young lady, I will make it part of my mission here to help you to mend your immoral ways if only so that God finds you more acceptable. Because I certainly do not.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:34:39 am
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-12-2005 11:21 PM                       
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Well, Dawn, I seem to have finally said something to ruffle your unflappable demeanor. Naturally, I take no comfort in that. It's no surprise that the two of you are actually friends, I think that everyone here sensed that well before you told us. Of course, Veronica also mentioned that in the past she had even "been" with women. I wonder, is there anything else that you might wish to confess about your relationship?

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:34:57 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 04-12-2005 11:33 PM                       
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There certainly is. I would like to confess that she is my best friend, that I love her with all my heart, and if you were half the man that she is a woman, you would see her for her strengths not her weaknesses. Also that I loathe men who bully women.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:35:17 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-12-2005 11:46 PM                       
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Well, this has been interesting, but to be perfectly honest, it hasn't been very helpful. I've been up for suggestions, but so far all I can see is reasons why I shouldn't do anything, just let it go. Can't any of you take the opposite tract? Doesn't anyone know what it feels like to yearn for someone with all your heart and soul?

Veronica, I understand where you're coming from, I really do, and I feel bad for you, for Anassa, for Ishtar, and for every woman out there who has had a story like any of us do. There are so many stories and each of us seems to be hiding more misery than we ever let on. We're each taught to be brave, but we're not really being brave at all, just each of us doing what we have to do to surivive. With Curt, it was always about so much more than just the sex with me. Curt was my companion, my life's blood, the only man who I wanted to be the father of my children. I can't possibly imagine ever starting a family with anyone else.

Anassa, do I really care how he treats me if he takes me back? Maybe I deserve some of the bad treatment after what I have done. I think I would feel guilty if he didn't give me any because that would mean he was just too wonderful for words. Even if he came at a time where he filled the void left by my father, it didn't make our relationship any less important. He was not my crutch to lean on, he truly was the other half of me. Everyone says let it go, but I just can't let it go. It just isn't in me, every part of me wants him with me again. I want the man back who I have loved in my life like no other, and I no longer even care if I have to humiliate myself doing it either. Can anyone understand just what this means to me? Please try and see things from my point of view, all of you. I'm absolutely heartbroken, crying even as I write this, because I just don't know what to do...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:36:12 am
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-12-2005 11:49 PM                       
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Calvin,

Please don't start in with the moral lectures, especially with Veronica, me, or any of the other women here. Unless you're a woman yourself, you don't know how hard we have it. It's often difficult to make the right decision and our hearts often lead us into many different places at once. Men's lives are so much easier, if you ask me.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:36:34 am
Anassa

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   posted 04-13-2005 04:48 AM                       
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Norman
Yes she said those things but her intention was to try and help another mixed up young girl. Don’t you have any third-world country you should be off destroying so you can reconstruct it for loadsa money? 


Calvin Noble.
Let’s take your gripe over the effects of Veronica’s posts on young impressionable minds and formulate a question. Now ask yourself what impression would be left on the mind of a 15-year old child that was raped? Perhaps the message the **** planted in her mind was one that women are helpless, powerless and only there to be used by men.
Now the point of view of a younger child who is abused cannot be made from the same perspective as they do not have the same capacity to think things through so their mind approaches from a perspective they understand, the physical effect. In my case it was “this hurts’.
In any case the feelings of anyone who has been abused or raped are as different as they are individual. Hence the differences in attitude in the aftermath.Elementary research shows that victims can swing either way. What they all need is love and support to give them back their feeling of self worth.

Veronica
Calvin Noble said one thing that I agree with. You are the only one that can end this cycle. You say you don’t want to be alone with yourself but I’m afraid that is what you are going to have to learn to do, even though it won’t be easy.
I am not a therapist so I can only tell you from my own experience and hope something in there can be of use to you.

Because I grew up without a father I tended to go out with guys that liked me more than I liked them. I figured if they liked me I must be ok and from the age of 16 when I started dating until the past few years, there has always been someone in my life, either a boyfriend, ex boyfriend, husband, any male figure that validated my existence as a woman. I was dating people because they liked me, not because I liked them.

After I got divorced I had a four-year relationship with a man actually very much like myself and through that I was able to see the mistake I was making. Because he lived in another country I saw him only twice or three times a year so I spent the intervening time alone. It was like a stepping stone really. I got the opportunity to be with myself but still knowing there was a man in my life if I needed him. Eventually the relationship ran its course. I was alone with no one in the background to fall back on and you know what, it was okay.

I have not dated for a year now and rather than working on a relationship with someone I am working on my relationship with myself, which also takes a lot work but so much more worth it because if I do meet someone I will be secure in the knowledge that I am going out with them because I like them, rather than because I need them.

I still need a lot of work on myself though. Sometimes I look in the mirror and my first reaction is ‘yuck’ as lines start to appear more and more or I think about something I said or did that I shouldn’t have. But then I stop, tell myself I’m great, that I’ll try harder today, laugh at the idea that I’m doing such a daft thing, but which ultimately brings a smile to my face. Always remember a sour face is caused by sour thoughts.
If you really want to say ‘no’, try it next time. Don’t tell yourself it’s forever, like giving up smoking. Just do it the once. That might be all you need.


Michelle
The only practical advice I can give you is to do what a male friend of mine decided to do when his girl dumped him for the same reasons as you and Curt. He has decided to stay in her life as a friend even thought it’s breaking his heart not being with her as her boyfriend. He is willing to prove his love even though she now has someone else. He realizes her new guy may not be around forever but he intends to prove to her that he has the staying power she wants no matter how long it will take.

“Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping. For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together, yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow”.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:37:12 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 06:04 AM                   
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Cute stories, but so... cliche.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:37:38 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 06:11 AM                   
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quote:
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My word is truth. This truth is within you, waiting to be accepted in order to be experienced. Speaking to his father in the 17th chapter of John, Jesus said: "I have given them the words which thou gavest me. They have received themand know, in truth, that I came fromthee; and they have believed thou didst send me."
I will now tell you the truth! Power took me to stand in the presence of the Risen Lord. Wearing the Human Form Divine, He embraced me and incorporated me into his body of Infinite Love. Wearing his body of love, I stood before Almighty God who said: “Time to act.” Then I was sent back into this world to tell the story of God as the infinite power of the human imagination!
Nuclear power could destroy New York City. But the power of which I speak is far beyond that of nuclear energy. Suppose you entered an animated scene, such as Grand Central Station in New York City at the peak of the rush hour, or the stock market in the course of a hectic day. As you look at it, you arrest an activity within you and everything stands still as though frozen. No matter how long you hold it - be it a second, a minute, or an hour - when it is released the scene becomes animated once again, as everyone continues their intentions.
Now suppose, having arrested the activity within you, you change their intentions and - releasing the scene with the changed motivation - you discover that they move under compulsion to fulfill that which they now think they initiated. Do you realize that with this power you could cause them to commit suicide and think it was what they wanted? Like the lemmings, you could make them run towards the ocean, enter beyond their
depth, and drown. That's what you can do with this power; but it will not be yours until you are first incorporated into the body of Love!
This I know from experience, for I have arrested an activity which seemed to be independent of me, to discover that although their forms were, their life was not. Activating my word, their life was in me; for as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted me (his son) to have life in myself!

When Pilate, the personification of logic and reason, asked: "Where are you from?" Jesus did not answer. But when he said: "Do you not know I have the power to release or crucify you," Jesus replied: "You have no power over me unless it is given you from within." In other words, if I do not give my power to you, you have none.
In the above statement the word "anothen" is translated "from above," but its true meaning is "from within."
This same word is used when Nicodemus is told: "Unless you are born from within, you cannot enter the kingdom of God."
The power from within is life-giving and entirely different from the power of this world. If you desired to physically leave this room, as an animated being I would have no power to hold you here. But as a life-giving spirit, I could hold and control your actions.
As a life-giving spirit, I have entered a scene from within. Those who were present could not see me; yet I was so alive with power in myself, that I knew if I arrested it, everything I perceived would stand still. I did, and instantly everyone and everything was stilled. I examined them to discover that they were dead as though made out of clay. Then I released that power in myself, and everyone once more became animated, and continued to fulfill their intentions. Possessing no power in them, I did not release the power in them but in me.
Only when you wear the Human Form Divine - which is the embodiment of love - will you exercise this
power. It is never exercised here, for your power is too great. You could, by arresting an army, rearrange their intention, release them, and they would execute your instructions - even if it meant their death. But wisdom goes hand in hand with that power. Paul asks: "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
In the wisdom of God the world does not know God through wisdom. The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
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quote:
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The world and all of its conflict is essential to the work that is being done in you. But in the end, you will have these four wonderful reunions with God and find yourself in the kingdom of heaven. Your awakening and resurrection takes you from this world of death. The discovery of your Son, your ascent into heaven, and the
descent of the Holy Spirit is your entrance into the New Age, where you wear the body of Christ, the power and the wisdom of God.
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[ 04-13-2005, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Vlad ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:38:02 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 06:18 AM                   
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When I said cliche, how about this:

When I awakened my body of light, I started to have dreams and visions afterwards... and there was something that annoyed my 'ego'.

My body of light, looked like a cross between me and a girl I loved. (Yes androgynous and totally more glorious than this human form, yet I recognized her in me.)

But here in the physical 'real world', I am not with her, haven't been for years, and have a dispute with her. We haven't talked in nearly three years even though I grew up with her. She doesn't want to have anything to do with me and me not really with her either.

And now she either is in me, or maybe I saw myself in her.

I didn't even expect it when I had the visions and dreams after my awakening. I may describe it later if I feel like it.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:38:51 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 06:48 AM                   
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Actually, let's do it now, real brief.

Basically I guess I felt a bit like Michelle, that I screwed up, and also that some was caused by 'circumstances'.

Then one day I had an experience...
where I realized... and knew, with a kind of rememberance of that which was hidden, that I had always been, never not been, always there at that 'place', always alone, no not alone, only, forever, never anyone else but me, that 'life' around me was a construct, a play, designed to keep me busy, and never ever face my onlyness, to never have to face the truth: there was never anyone else but me.
But alas, I had returned, and not just that, I also remembered it was not the first time I returned.
I realized I had 'placed' or 'chosen' certain persons in my life, one of which was that girl, and that the reason I returned seemed to be because I had not followed the, let's call it the grail code, you know being nice gentle and knightly like the grailknight etc, and that this caused a sort of, well, 'error' in the causal system necessitating my return.

SO I was left with a choice. Accept it or restart?

The 'final judgement' written of. I guess you do it yourself.
When the above was going on, I did not only feel like never born, never dead, in a way timeless, but there was also a feeling of christmas, unmistakable as *the* christmas feeling, and a ring around my head, feeling like a crown actually, and a sensation and perception of light that felt like fire and looked like sunlight, which I felt a connection with in consciousness. It was I the light and I the ego, yet the light was not localizable and a lot more fiery feeling.

But during the 'judgement', perhaps needless to say that when I felt like the only being, ah well just think what that does to you.
It felt like there was an abyss 'below' me, which I could fall into. Really even though I felt never born there was a sensation that I could fall into it and it felt like something else than dying.
I also felt on fire during the experience and at the moment it didn't feel so fun, I wondered what I had done to myself.

Well I seemingly accepted the situation and/or my failure, and then my body filled with what is like liquid light and I felt like birthing something. Even though I'm not a women I felt like I was 'opening up' at the pelvic/genital area and birthing.

I'm not going to describe the rest, but to keep it brief, the weeks and months after the experience I had visions. Visions I call these sights which seemed more real than this world. Compared to what I saw, this world sort of looks like made out of technicolor.

The first one I had was of another paradise like realm with a stream and a white bright luminous 'essene' like figure throwing glowing things in the stream of water, that my vision focused on and I saw were fishes. Fish - symbol of the christ.

The next vision I had was again in a paradise like realm, where I saw a child like version of my adult me (I'm 27), really like a kid in size and sort of appearance but looking like the adult me, and I was eating orange-glowing fruit from a tree. Feeling the taste and consistency of it with every bite, knowing not only that I was here in this world in my body, but also 'there', and I also felt the eating in my body here at the solar plexus. Heavenly good taste btw.

After that I had a vision where I saw myself as a corpse, actually remains in human form, that felt like me, feeling with a knowing that I was dead, all that time, and then I saw them become animated, made alive, and also felt it. Feeling myself being made alive.

Then the last one I saw myself again in that paraidse like realm as a full new body. I didn't expect to see it either. When I did, I was also startled by the way I/the body looked. I can only say that where during the initial 'enlightening' experience there was a feeling of kingship, now one of princelyness. I looked like a cross between the girl I loved and had wanted in my life, with golden-blonde hair, a luminous body, like a very perfected refined version of me, so good looking that really I was startled and the sight of it (colors hues etc) seems like totally different from what is known here. There was also noticably a red hue around it all.

I guess Calvin may know what happened to me, or not?

 ;)
 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:39:15 am
Anassa

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   posted 04-13-2005 02:29 PM                       
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Vlad
It is clear from your post that you have had some type of kundalini awakening or self-realisation experience leading to the oft-held belief that the physical world is but a collective illusion that one can, if you know how, subjectively manipulate from a higher level of self awareness.

Good for you but just wondering how that helps people whose problems are as real to them as the chair they are sitting on even if that chair may only be a group of floating energies cemented together by the power of collective thought.

I'm just teasing  but seriously can you state your point in plain English plz
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:40:39 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 04:03 PM                   
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It's usually pointless really, I've tried before.
Religion tried for so many years too.

But you answered your own question.

The manipulation ... subjective ... can become objective.

What's so hard to understand about it? 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:41:53 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 04:06 PM                   
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What you have to do is... imagine.

Imagine happy times, not bad times!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:42:15 am
Vlad
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  posted 04-13-2005 04:38 PM                   
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You know what?
To elucidate my point I'll quote a teacher.

"Just a second, I'm gonna ask questions. Everybody talks about God and death and the final judgement. Do you know who the final judge is gonna be? You. Nobody else."

"So who does that make us?"

"Yes, we are all Gods."

"But the point about it is, you are here to get a body, to learn to control the body and to go through your tests and trials you already set up."

"You begged to come."

"You go up there on the fourth level and you see large groups of entities planning out their whole life."

"And then when they get it all planned out--you're supposed to do this to me and you're supposed to do that to me--you're supposed to build me and teach me so that I react automatically properly."

"Unfortunately, the body you are has got nothing whatsoever to do with the entity you are. In fact the body don't even like the way it's being treated. It's a very low intelligence thing and it will hurt itself to hurt you."

"The point about it is, the body that you've got, you took when you came down on this plane. Your entity is controlling this body. Your entity doesn't really stay here all the time on this plane."

"That's the whole idea of coming down other than getting a body and learning to operate it."


"Well, the deal about it is, I've only had one time when I wasn't a teacher. This time I refused to be a teacher. I kept having these real serious accidents till I went back to it. Now I do a little bit; not very much, just a little bit. I go over and run a school six months or so at a time and then I escape for a while and then I go back again."

"You know what, one of the first things I do when I train a group and I have to say I haven't trained a group for just about a year now. But the first thing I do is I take half the students and I blindfold them and I take the other half of the students and give them little wooden sticks. And the person blindfolded is supposed to stand there and the guy without the blindfold says hey and he reaches up an touches them with the stick. The person blindfolded has a stick in his hand and he's supposed to move it an block the touch. And in about a week, you can't touch them without them blocking it."

"And then they go to the next step, they learn to sword fight with those wooden sticks; blindfolded and the other guy doesn't have a blindfold. It takes about a week to do that. And the Samurai and all of those groups are all taught blindfolded so that they know the reaction you're gonna do before you do it. That's part of their training."

"But that teaches you knowingness. It teaches you to understand your knowingness. Because, you know before it happens, you're just ignoring it. And, then I teach them how to . . like how I get by in deep and understand everything that goes on and how to see without your eyes."


I am not saying I agree with all of what he says. I don't know yet. But it's an interesting point of view imo. Seems to be similar to what St. Paul said: "the flesh works against the spirit", or something to that extent.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:42:39 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-13-2005 08:47 PM                       
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Veronica, I think I was a little flippant in my comments to you the other night regarding your sex life and Anassa has made me see that as men, we sometimes lack sensitivity. Sorry, I didn't mean anything by it. Like I said, I don't judge you, think you bring a lot to the forum, and also say once again that speaking about your life, rather than keep the facts hidden, took real courage. As it also has for Anassa, Michelle and all the others.

And that is probably the nicest thing I have said to anyone in this forum.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:43:00 am
rockessence

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   posted 04-13-2005 08:52 PM                       
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Congratulations Aristotle! That didn't hurt one bit did it?

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:43:34 am
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 04-13-2005 08:54 PM                       
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quote:
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 Don’t you have any third-world country you should be off destroying so you can reconstruct it for loadsa money?
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Anassa, the war in Iraq was perfectly justified. Saddam was an evil tyrant and he may have been developing weapons of mass destruction.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:43:52 am
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 04-13-2005 08:58 PM                       
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quote:
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I'm just teasing but seriously can you state your point in plain English plZ
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Actually, I believe that I understand the point that Vlad was trying to make perfectly, Anassa. I believe it was meant more along the lines of a satire directed towards all the many pseudo-intellectuals here that post in this section who try and talk about their "feelings."

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:44:29 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:02 PM                       
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No, it did not, Rockessence, however, you'll notice that I directed my apology towards the ladies of this forum, not the men, many of who continue to give the rest of us a bad name.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:44:52 am
rockessence

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:07 PM                       
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Believe me, I noticed....I love it when people are patient and civil...sometimes lacking, but sometimes beautifully present!

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:45:15 am
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:08 PM                       
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Now if we could just stop you from being such a lowly cynic, Aritoddler!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:45:51 am
Aristotle

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:15 PM                       
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Well, I have been thinking about some of the comments made here a lot the last few days, and it is really the truth, something Michelle said, that we don't know how hard many of you have it. One often doesn't recognize bad behavior in themselves unless they see it in another person first. Hence the reason for my own apology.

Jennie...one thing at a time.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:46:09 am
rockessence

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:19 PM                       
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Ari,

With such a lofty name and heavenly countenance, we are expecting a lot from you!

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:46:30 am
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:22 PM                       
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And it goes without saying that so far, WE ARE WAY DISAPPOINTED!!!!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:47:04 am
Dawn Moline

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   posted 04-13-2005 09:33 PM                       
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First off, I would like to tell Zodiac and any other man here that might be interested in helping my friend Veronica, that she appreciates the gesture, but she has more than she can handle right now.

Vlad, let's discuss you. Do you really think that our stories are cute and cliche? They are human stories, are they not? Anything human suffers, by it's very nature, and as human beings I believe the first thing we owe one another is compassion. Yes, I know, yak, yak, yak...


quote:
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But here in the physical 'real world', I am not with her, haven't been for years, and have a dispute with her. We haven't talked in nearly three years even though I grew up with her. She doesn't want to have anything to do with me and me not really with her either.
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If you would like to elaborate on the real life circumstances behind your connection, I would like to hear them very much. Do you consider this connection love? Hate is not the opposite of love, but rather indifference. If you fought with one another and aren't speaking, that might show you still care. If you simply grew tired of one another, well, that's another thing altogether. I like to believe that men and women can love one another in all manner of ways. That even when the passion for each other fades it manifests itself into something else, perhaps a feeling even deeper. I like to believe that people never stop loving one another, that sometimes we mistake the feelings we have for true love, but that actual raw love is eternal.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:47:29 am
Michelle Sandberg

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Member # 2194

Member Rated:
   posted 04-13-2005 10:59 PM                       
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Anassa,

I can't even stay in Curt's life as a friend because, up until today, he won't talk to me and won't see me. He wouldn't return my calls or even come to see me if I came to his house.

Well, today, he did see me and it went worse than I could possibly imagine. I waited for him outside the building where he was in class and "ran into him." I had all these things I was going to say to him, but when the time came, I wasn't able to say anything, I just choked. He wouldn't even look at me anyway, just started to pass me by. Well, I couldn't bear the thought of that, so I just said his name and broke down and cried, even though I even told myself going in that I wouldn't do that. It's so foolish, I used to be so happy, and now because all I seem to do is cry. Well, to his credit, he was a gentleman about it, he came back, took me by the hand, led me to the side of the building so no one could see, even held me till I stopped crying and dried all my tears. He did all the things he used to do for me in the times where I was crying over things that had nothing to do with him and for a moment there, I thought I had been forgiven. There was a park bench and he placed me on it while he sat there before me on the grass. It was so odd, in my dreams, many times I saw us together in that same position, because this was how I always imagined he would propose to me, but I just had this vague feeling of sudden desperation. I told him again that I was sorry for what I'd done, that I didn't know what had come over me and it wouldn't happen again, and that I wanted him back, of course. I poured out my heart to him in every way I could imagine how, and after it was all done, he just shook his head and said. "No, that's all in the past now." I asked him what he meant by that, but his expression alread gave me the answer. He told me that I would never understand, that all this time that he had felt unworthy of me, that I was too beautiful to ever end up with someone like him and that if something like this hadn't happened this time, something else would happen later on and it would just all end then. I told him I didn't feel beautiful and that each time I looked at him, all I did is hurt. I also told him that I knew he still loved me because I could sense it in the way he treated me. He told me that he would always love me, but that it had to end because I was better off with someone else, and he knew that he was destined to end up alone. He also said that I would realize that myself someday. There's usually a vibration I get whenever we're together, like, no matter what he says, his body betrays the fact that he still wants to be with me. But this time, the vibe was missing, and I could tell that he had already made up his mind that we were over, done. In the few days we had been apart, everything had changed between us, all the physical communication, the looks we would give one another, the history, the happiness we used to draw from one another. Despite our two years together, he had just made me a stranger again. He was so reserved as he walked me back to my car that I knew he'd shut all his feelings off from me completely.

Deep down, I still know that the main reason, no matter what he said, is that he knows he could never again trust me completely, and so, he would never give me his heart again. I suppose if I were him, I wouldn't trust me, too. I had something really wonderful and I just threw it away. I am as alone as I was before we started our two years, and he may have moved on from me, but I know I will never fully move on from him. There's so much going on in Curt that needs me right now. He gets dark and depressed, has very few friends and lets next to no one in. I want to mother him just like he has often served as a father to me. I want to give him a reason for living. I wouldn't be surprised if one day his life ends early, either because of suicide, or something like that. And if something like that ever does happen, I will never forgive myself because I'll know who was truly responsible: me.

I betrayed the only man in my life who ever meant anything to me, and for that, I have no words to describe myself. I am the only long term girlfriend he's ever had and he's the man I've dated for the longest. I know he still loves me but is afraid I'll hurt him again.

To make matters worse, the guy I cheated on him with keeps calling and trying to see me, constantly. He is as persistent as Curt often is shy. I feel so degraded when I look at him, or even hear his voice, it just reminds me of Curt. All the details of the two nights we spent together over spring break come flooding back to me in a shameful rush. Like I said, I'm not religious, but the sex felt so much dirtier with him than it ever did with Curt, and, when he was well, inside me, things just felt differently. Part of me hates myself for what it did to Curt, another part of me actually thinks about doing it again. And that's another reason why I won't go out with him, because if I do, I get the feeling my emotions will betray me once more and we'll wind up in bed together again. I don't want that, I don't want to be anyone else's lover, and I don't want anything new in my life, I want back the same comfort and familiarity back that I had with my Curt, if he'll ever have me.

No matter what happens, this has become for me, the most frightening time of my life. Where once the future seemed so bright and optimistic, now everything has become so strange and cold. I don't know where I'm headed to, even the type of person I'll become. To be perfectly honest, so much has happened, I don't even know me anymore.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:48:21 am
Scorpio5

Member
Member # 2205

Member Rated:
   posted 04-13-2005 11:15 PM                       
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Michelle, if I may be so bold, I would like to give you some advice. I would say forget about Curt for the time being, but I think that you should also go with this new person and give him a chance. Give into your urges, even give yourself to him if you have to, your body is trying to tell you something that your mind has yet to accept. It could be that intellectually, you have selected one mate for yourself while nature has selected another. Women are condtioned from the time they're children that their sexuality is a thing to be repressed and be afraid of. But it isn't, it's a beautiful thing, something to be nurtured and grown her whole life. A woman shouldn't be expected to live her entire lifetime with just one lover, most men certainly aren't expected to do that, and so, it's unfair to ask that of any of you to either. Don't be dissuaded by the ugly names that society comes up with, follow your basic nature. As Aristotle and others said, if you had been that happy in the relationship you were in, you would never have cheated to begin with. Something was missing. Perhaps fate intervened, made you cheat so that you would end up with this new lover and reach a new height of sensuality as a woman.
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:48:44 am
Calvin Noble

Member
Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-13-2005 11:21 PM                       
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Michelle, listen to this latest heathen's advice and so, fall further from God. Your sexuality is a thing to be denied, not grown, lest you follow Veronica's shameful example.

Anassa, I think we are in agreement that Veronica's acts are immoral, however we might disagree with how to best handle them. You say she needs support, I say that, along with a firm hand. I have no idea what Veronica's parental situation is like, but I'll wager she doesn't have a father. Do you, Veronica? Also, she seems to not even have the slightest interest in stopping her immoral lifestyle.

[ 04-13-2005, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Calvin Noble ]

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:49:39 am
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 04-14-2005 12:32 AM                       
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Calvin, as a matter of fact, I do have a father and it so happens that he is ashamed of me, satisfied??

Anassa, I have tried to say no to men in the past, but the ones that dwell in my life are terribly persistent. They know me too well, and know that if they apply the right amount of pressure, I always tend to give in. It's like I am in a constant state of heat, it's a compulsion that I don't even have in me to control. I've been to therapy, and nothing works. Don't you think I already know how rotten my existence is at times?

I'm a complete and utter wreck, an embarrassment to my family, even to myself. I think that I both love and hate men, love them for the way they can make me feel in bed, hate them that they always tend to leave me afterwards and that I ended up needing them in the first place. I could probably get someone to sleep with me every night of the week if it came to it, thankfully we're in a college town so they also need to drink and study. Some of you might notice that I'm rarely at the forum on the weekends. That is because I am almost always at someone's apartment, or in my own, bedded up with someone. Some of them I have known for years, others, I barely know. Regrettably, I have been very easy like that.

I am also deeply ashamed of myself yet don't even know how to begin to stop it all, it's all like some beast that's gotten out of control. The best I can do at this time, I'm afraid is to pick one man I like best, let him satisfy all my needs and let him be the one to keep all the others at bay. Even that wouldn't work, though, because I never seem to let the men who fall in love with me stay very long. In the end, I end up doing all I can to drive them away. Twice, I've been engaged, and twice I've gotten out of it, simply so I could go back to the cheap, lifestyle I had before. What will become of me? I'm twenty-six years old, with multiple lovers, and the closest thing I can get to a job in my major, which is design, is that I still model **** for the figure drawing classes at the school, which pays nothing. For the moment, I'm young, pretty, and I usually sleep around with anyone who wants me, because I care nothing for myself. But even I know that all that will have to change someday, because, after a time, who will want me?

[ 04-14-2005, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: Veronica Poe ]
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:50:15 am
Scorpio5

Member
Member # 2205

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   posted 04-14-2005 12:36 AM                       
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Sure you can, Veronica, you're a love goddess. Stop looking at this as some blight upon your nature, I think this is your true nature. Lost in all this is perhaps also the fact that you're a beautiful girl who has probably made the men in her life very happy. Anything that brings another happiness in this world can't be such a bad thing, can it?
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Posts: 170 | From: Joliet, IL | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:50:34 am
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 04-14-2005 12:43 AM                       
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I used to tell myself that, and in the beginning I had no qualms, no guilt at all. But who am I kidding? At the moment my life is a wreck and I just want nearly everything in it to go away...most of the time, that is.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:50:57 am
rockessence

Member
Member # 1839

Member Rated:
   posted 04-14-2005 01:24 AM                       
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Veronica,

Check out www.pacific-crossroads.com for rock and mineral essences. This one in particular is recommended for your situation:

Ruby Female…7 cleansers plus amethyst, pearl, ruby. “This essence works to heal a wide variety of imbalances. Among them are: divorce trauma, frigidity, inhibitions. This essence also promotes: Candid and comfortable sexual communication between partners. Recoveries from the traumas of ****, childhood sexual abuse, painful intercourse, and inadequate preparation by way of sex education.” S.W.R.

Also, in the Master Blend:
Selenite for Children’s phobias and traumas...

The Master Blend has 33 different rock and mineral energies in distilled water and would help you to feel so much more in balance and in control. You take drops under the tongue 4 times a day.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:51:35 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 07:06 AM                   
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I didn't read all of this yet (no time)

But one comment:

Curt is an idiot that needs his ass kicked. Period.
The world has no need for such lousy losers right now with gothicisms. What the f*ck, what is he doing for global good? I can understand he may be depressed BUT when you live in a rich first world country and have a girl do what Michelle did, man give me a break!

There are far more important things to worry about than his self conceived gothicisms.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:52:15 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 07:09 AM                   
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I'm listening to this mp3 track right now called "True Love" from Phacelift.

How fitting to hear the start of it:

guy voice: "This is true love."

girl voice: "How can you be sure?"

guy voice: "It happens every day"

 :D
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:52:37 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 07:15 AM                   
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Just one more comment before I go:

Men don't need to rely on blind trust.

Trust (more or less of the 'blind trust' kind) is needed when you can not use pattern recognition to accurately predict in your mind the ikely outcome of a person's behaviour. Think about what I said. If you know yourself, you will also recognize it in others, and so the old adage is true. Know yourself and you will gain wisdom. And there you go another deja vu.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:52:57 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 07:19 AM                   
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quote:
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Actually, I believe that I understand the point that Vlad was trying to make perfectly, Anassa. I believe it was meant more along the lines of a satire directed towards all the many pseudo-intellectuals here that post in this section who try and talk about their "feelings."
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Actually, no.
I 'believe' in needing to live with mind and feelings in perfect harmony. In fact when in the 'enlightened' state, it is very much through feelings that the knowledge comes.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:53:22 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 07:57 AM                   
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Michelle,

In global context, situations form a balance.

Curt wanted, assumed, that at a point your relationship would come to an end.

He got what he wanted.

He is in a certain mindset.

He will only be able to get out after getting his mindset broken. You should not give in. You are being attracted, moved, let's say causally, to act in a certain way, and your thoughts and feelings are influenced by it, along with the impression it is your 'free will' or 'desire'.

It will only stop after Curt breaks his mindset.
If you give in to the connection with him, which of course will feel good, then you keep the structure intact and feed it with energy.

The opposite may happen. Doesn't need to. Fact is, if Curt does things globally that are harmful, his energy source, you, may be removed, and this may happen along with the breaking of his mental framework.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:53:57 am
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-14-2005 08:32 AM                       
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HI Miss Michelle, you said,"Doesn't anyone know what it feels like to yearn for someone with all your heart and soul?"

Yes darlin I do.

IN fact after I left my husband those many years ago, I morned for two years. Even in a abusive relationship , there was an empty void.

Sometimes even bad relationships like mine can be addicting.

Like I said before all the words in the world don't help when you are hurting, but I think the people that are reaching out to you are trying the only way they know how to help, god bless them.

Two books that helped me understand relationships are,

The Celestine Prophecy, and The Four Agreements,

when you start feeling better perhaps you might be interested.

OH and you do not have to let go , honor your feelings, , only the passing of time will ease the pain, I see more here then meets the eye, but I wont post it. Lets just see how this thread develops.

[ 04-14-2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:54:44 am
Anassa

Member
Member # 2386

Member Rated:
   posted 04-14-2005 08:50 AM                       
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Vlad
Please don’t take what I said the wrong way. I didn’t have a question really. I was just being a smart ass because I was a little niggled by your comment that such real and human dilemmas were “cute and clichéd”.

From the level you view things they probably are but not everyone is as lucky as you to have had such an amazing spiritual experience, hence their problems are very real to them.
I know also that it’s hard to describe such experiences in mortal terms but you have managed quite well in some in some of your subsequent posts   :)

“What you have to do is... imagine.
Imagine happy times, not bad times!”

“Curt is an idiot that needs his ass kicked. Period.
The world has no need for such lousy losers right now with gothicisms”

“If you know yourself, you will also recognize it in others, and so the old adage is true. Know yourself and you will gain wisdom.”

“I 'believe' in needing to live with mind and feelings in perfect harmony. In fact when in the 'enlightened' state, it is very much through feelings that the knowledge comes.”

All very wise musings   :)

Norman
I wasn’t commenting on the rights or wrongs of the war, just Halliburton’s ‘hard-earned’ contracts.

Calvin Noble
I never passed any comment on whether Veronica’s actions were moral or immoral. I said I agreed with your observation that it was up to her to say ‘no’ from now on. It’s really none of my business whether she does or not. She herself has said she is not happy with her life and would like to change things.

Veronica
I hope you will be able to find your way forward. God bless you.

Michelle
Curt obviously has his own self-esteem issues or he would not have said it was inevitable that something would eventually happen to end your relationship. I guess he thought it was too good to be true and feared always that it would end. Yet another self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe you could try taking a firm hand with him rather than pleading with him. He obviously still loves you by the sounds of it so maybe he just needs a little time.

I think Ishtar’s suggestion to read the Celestine Prophecy is a good one. It is helpful in demonstrating the dynamics of human relationships.
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Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2005 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:55:14 am
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-14-2005 09:37 AM                       
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Veronica , people that have been raped have these issues with men, and many do become sexually over active, the same things happens to kids that are molested when they are young, but you most likely already know that.

The emotional impact of **** can be severe. Some effects include feeling responsible for the assault, a sense of betrayal by someone liked and trusted, a fear of reprisal by parents or the offender, a fear that friends won't believe what happened, as well as numerous changes in personality and behavior. **** is not "just sex"; it is frightening, painful, and emotionally destructive.

Veronica the fact you end up in bed on first dates is typical of **** victims,

you are not BAD you are suffering, I didn't realize how much sexually abuse ruined my life till I was older, from depression to fear and mistrust of others, feeling ashamed and blaming oneself,and sexual addiction.

Many prostitutes are **** victims. Veronica , you are a product of this **** and it is still effecting you to this day , and NO one and I mean NO one and especially "YOU, should judge "YOU", please don't judge yourself , for a pattern of behavior that was set in motion due to this ****...........YOU are NOT to BLAME..........

god bless you...............

And thank you folks for the compasionate responces to my post, the main reason I posted those things was to let others know , yes you can overcome adversity.

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:55:49 am
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 04-14-2005 11:32 AM                   
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Norman,


quote:
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Anassa, the war in Iraq was perfectly justified. Saddam was an evil tyrant and he may have been developing weapons of mass destruction.
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And you are an idiot.

"Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"

Let's not mention the wildlife and nature that gets destroyed by the actions of idiot humans?

God is Light and the Light incarnates in human form. It does not mean because avatars do not act right now that the Illuminati do not exist.

Arrogant humans, you think war is justified over some stupid primal concepts you hold not very different from territorial instincts.

There are/were other ways to go about it. In the case of the war, Saddam was willing to cooperate. It's just that some humans are too stupid to be leaders.


Dawn,


quote:
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Vlad, let's discuss you. Do you really think that our stories are cute and cliche? They are human stories, are they not? Anything human suffers, by it's very nature, and as human beings I believe the first thing we owe one another is compassion. Yes, I know, yak, yak, yak...
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People need to start focusing on what is really important. In the example of Michelle. If none kicks that Curt's ass back into reality, society might end up with a loser that - because perhaps he was never given a 'reality shock' - expresses this his 'emotional trauma'(sic) later on in future relationships, causing chain reactions, or who knows even sexual perversions like he may go get a twist in his mind and abuse young girls because he tries to see innocence in them he lose in Michelle or something.

I may be exaggerating but this is how the world works, there is lack of Fire from some people.


quote:
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quote:
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But here in the physical 'real world', I am not with her, haven't been for years, and have a dispute with her. We haven't talked in nearly three years even though I grew up with her. She doesn't want to have anything to do with me and me not really with her either.
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If you would like to elaborate on the real life circumstances behind your connection, I would like to hear them very much. Do you consider this connection love? Hate is not the opposite of love, but rather indifference. If you fought with one another and aren't speaking, that might show you still care. If you simply grew tired of one another, well, that's another thing altogether. I like to believe that men and women can love one another in all manner of ways. That even when the passion for each other fades it manifests itself into something else, perhaps a feeling even deeper. I like to believe that people never stop loving one another, that sometimes we mistake the feelings we have for true love, but that actual raw love is eternal.
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I could elaborate so much that I could tell you my life if you want to hear, but I'm not sure it would matter much. Basically I have the impression she has closed herself off and chose another way. And I don't care enough about her anymore to try to fix anything about it. In fact, I consider her against my goals. She is materialistic and does not seem to care much about what humans do to the earth. I do. So should she stand in my way, I would even remove her. I do and don't care about the 'right to live'. The human soul is immortal. You don't lose personality when you die. There is only a shift. Just like when you dream and wake up. Once you experience this, people's survival/self-preservation fear based behaviour gets a whole new perspective. People that abuse the earth to keep themselves alive should be removed IF they disturb global balance.
But you can wonder: how come I have become so seemingly 'cold' against someone I loved? I'm not cold. I also don't hate her. I simply no longer have this kind of, well, binding love to her that keeps me attached. There is a difference between a binding love and harmonious love. And the fact is too, she is the one that broke contact and didn't want to talk it out after I repeatedly asked, and she's full of her own ideas and conditioned and whatnot and won't change her mind. You know what nature does to such people/animals? Recycle. So I accepted it already, and I also realized the only way she'll ever change is if she gets a harsh reality shock.
Yesterday I heard an engineer during a presentation about ecological problems say something which is very true: most people, once they reach 20 years of age, become fixed in their thoughts and opinions and change doesn't work anymore.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:56:18 am
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 04-14-2005 09:18 PM                       
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Dawn, Rockessence & Jennie,

Some of the others have barred their souls here. Don't any of you wish to offer up any of your own sordid tales? We're all ears.

Dawn, I can certainly imagine what your life is like if your best friend Veronica is any indication.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:56:39 am
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 04-14-2005 09:19 PM                       
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Rockessence, if Veronica truly suffers from a sexual addiction, wouldn't a better solution simply be a chastity belt of some kind? Thank you.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:56:58 am
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 04-14-2005 09:21 PM                       
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quote:
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, no. I 'believe' in needing to live with mind and feelings in perfect harmony. In fact when in the 'enlightened' state, it is very much through feelings that the knowledge comes.
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How unfortunate, Vlad. I believe I liked the significance I originally drew from your point better, I'm certain I understood it better, at least.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on December 22, 2007, 01:59:15 am
Norman Pounders

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quote:
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And you are an idiot.

"Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"
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Calvin raises an excellent point that many of you liberals are unable to debate civilly without tossing insults and profanity about. Could it be that you each know you have such a weak case that you are unable to make your point without resorting to verbal violence?

The war in Iraq was justified.

And in my opinion, your opinion of it makes you an unpatriotic American.

If you are an American.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: HereForNow on January 04, 2008, 04:18:38 pm
Great work Jenn. Hey, do you remember back when this subject started?
 I do!

Dawn Moline and Stacy Dohm were always on and I can remember how nice it was to have them there discussing this subject.
Bluducky, ViaMars, Brooke and Volitzer were there too and this topic rocked.

Veronica Poe on the other hand touched base once on a subject that made me think hard about my own life.
The poor girl was having some problems and at that same time, I was having an affair that was causing me some major greif.
Yet, I would visit this topic and talking to everyone would make aalot of my own stresses dwindle.

Thank you Dawn for both topics. It really takes me back when I read these.


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: HereForNow on January 04, 2008, 04:23:44 pm
(http://www.jonathonart.com/reg-x.jpg)

Regeneration

Author  Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-02-2005 11:14 PM                       
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the Origins of Love

The idea for this topic arose from HereForNow's thread, "War in Heaven." To start with, we used the the model of the Watchers seducing the Daughters of Cain in the Book of Enoch. The question I first posed was, why were the Watchers first drawn to mortal women, was it lust, as the texts would have us believe, or was it love, as I personally happen to believe?

It could not be simple lust.

An angel, knowing the grace of God, would not sacrifice that grace lightly, and surely a being that is All-Knowing would know that lust is simply a passing fancy. An Angel, not knowing the draw of love, would be seduced and might make such a sacrifice. I also hold that it was not mere beauty alone that led the Watchers astray. There are female angels as well as male, and surely a female angel could become a thing of beauty far more enticing than flesh could ever conceive. I believe it was some inner quality that drew the angels, an element they saw in their creator, an innate human quality. The Watchers fell in love with the daughters of Cain because they sensed, in them, the same human quality they saw in the creator. In other words, their love for the women was the same as their love for their God. Loving the women helped them become closer to God, just as when we love one another we, too, become closer to God.

Love could not conceive of the monsters (giants) such a union at first reproduce, love simply is, it knows no master but itself, and that it enough.

When did love first enter the world? Did Neandertal man have any love for his mate? While the Ice Age hunter/gatherers hunted the Woolly Mammoth, did they do so for love?

From what I can see, love can be said to have first entered the world in one of two ways:

Human beings, descended from the apes, and all our impulses, love included, are nature's trick to get us to reproduce, impulses present in any species.

Human beings, descended from the angels, and the ability to love is of God's gift to us, perhaps our one saving grace amidst a sea of troubles.

Knowing many of you as I do, I think I can imagine which of the two camps some of you might split into. Still, I would like to put a more personal touch on this. I invite everyone to share their opinions, theories, even experiences on the reality of love, no matter how plain or how intimate. I notice many of you aren't using your real names, so there is nothing to conceal, no secret to protect. The only thing that you are protecting is whatever standing you have may have built up in the forum, which, in the final analysis, means very little anyway. I want to judge no one, I wish to understand everyone.

As human beings, I believe it our responsibility to try and gain a greater appreciation of one another. In my opinion, that is the one thing we owe to our past generations, to our children who come after us. No greater understanding can be greater than the one we have of love.


[This message has been edited by Dawn Moline (edited 01-02-2005).]

[ 08-29-2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Dawn Moline ] 


It was the need to procreate, and because these heavenly beings were created instead of born. They took human wives who could procreate to make children with. Thus goes the theory, of the hybrid humans who became the Atlanteans.


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:04:32 pm
Great work Jenn. Hey, do you remember back when this subject started?
 I do!

Dawn Moline and Stacy Dohm were always on and I can remember how nice it was to have them there discussing this subject.
Bluducky, ViaMars, Brooke and Volitzer were there too and this topic rocked.

Veronica Poe on the other hand touched base once on a subject that made me think hard about my own life.
The poor girl was having some problems and at that same time, I was having an affair that was causing me some major greif.
Yet, I would visit this topic and talking to everyone would make aalot of my own stresses dwindle.

Thank you Dawn for both topics. It really takes me back when I read these.

It certainly brings back a great deal of memories, Herefornow. This is one of the longest topics on the internet.  i think it best that it be saved for posterity, lest it all be lost.


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:05:54 pm
 
Dawn Moline

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Norman, I tend to gravitate towards older men, with you (from both your assumed appearance and your demeanor) being the noticeable exception.
I would like to share some of my stories about love and sex with all of you, like others here. But since Calvin seems to think that any unmarried woman who has sex with anyone is automatically immoral, I think that I'll spare myself the criticism for another night. I will say that I have never been married, that I am twenty-eight years old and that, like Veronica, I have had my own share of sexual misadventures. Away from this forum, I am outgoing, yet tend to be very passive. Anger is very hard for me lately, I don't often get angry much anymore, often have a hard time understanding people who do. I want to hurt no one, hope no one wants to hurt me in return. I have been harmed many times before, but believe that it is pointless to return such treatment. In my opinion, there is no good reason for one human being to ever hurt another. As human beings, we have more than enough pain in the world, we don't have to go to the added trouble of making it difficult for one another. I admit to having used sexual intimacy at times to cheer up close friends, and since I like to be surrounded by friends, I have encouraged some of those same friends to join this forum. I am vain about my looks, what woman isn't, but I have never assumed they made me better than anyone else. I believe that those who are older than us, who have the benefit of experience, should be treated with respect and we should learn from their experiences. Some of you who might have been reading my past posts can also probably guess that I'm quite spoiled and used to being the center of attention. You'd be right. And I am invested with the same female foibles that you might find in any woman - I dress to mainly to atttract the attention of men and sometimes flirt a little too much for my own good. Often, it gives the wrong impression, and I have paid for it in the past. I was attacked by a man back in college, and I'm still trying to make sense of that, which is why I tend to ask so many questions. I am surprised at how many other women that I talk to have that same story. In my own case, I didn't fight back, yet was beaten anyway. At five 5'5", 123 pounds, I doubt I could have put up much of a fight anyway, he was much bigger than I am. How many of us are hiding such stories in our pasts? I don't understand violence, I hate it, and I have yet to hear any single good explanation why a man should ever hurt a woman. I mean well, though, and I still truly believe that love can change the world.

I wonder, if, as women, do any of us ever actually get the lives that we want, or do we simply settle for the lives that we have..?

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:06:12 pm
Norman Pounders

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quote:
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I was attacked by a man back in college, and I'm still trying to make sense of that, which is why I tend to ask so many questions.
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Dawn, thank you for sharing this with us. How unfortunate for you. I'm curious, was there ever a police report filed over this presumed attack? Thank you.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:06:30 pm
 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 04-14-2005 10:47 PM                       
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Oh, whatever..!

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:06:47 pm
KMFDM

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Cheney, you are some weasel. Dawn says that she was attacked and the first thing you want to do is see the police report to prove that it really happened? Why are you always trying to pick on Dawn all the time anyway? What has she, or any of the other women who post here ever done to you?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:07:06 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-14-2005 11:20 PM                       
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Vlad,

The connection I feel with Curt is very intense and I also realize that I draw my own life source from him as well. He is my father, brother, lover and soulmate and I can't exist without him. I'm the one most suffering from being without him. Nature is tugging me in a different direction. I resist the pull, though, because I want Curt and I simply can't let go. Even if I go with somebody else, I'll still be thinking of him and I'll be doing it because of him, not to forget him. He's not a Goth, he believes in making the world a better place, too, there's just so much to do that at times he doesn't know where to begin. Also, I would never want anyone to ever hurt him, I'd rather be hurt myself before I saw anyone do that.

Ishtar,

I'm deeply sorry you were in an abusive relationship. No woman should ever have to be in that, and I can only imagine how conflicted I would feel right now if Curt had hit me or anything like that. He never did, would never even think of it, but the odd thing is, even if he did, I think I would still be with him. It is terrible how much we tend to need someone. Veronica mentioned a sexual addiction, well, if I have an additcion it would be to him.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:07:32 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-14-2005 11:30 PM                       
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Is there anybody out there again? I'd like to let everyone know what happened to me today, and see if I can get any advice from anyone. After speaking with Curt yesterday, I've been missing him so much again that I couldn't just let things sit where they were. I had class this morning with Steve, the other man in my life, who asked me out yet again. I said no, politely again, but thought about it a little more this time before I did. Something in me that I hate is getting more drawn to Steve, even though I fight it all the time because it still makes me feel so disloyal. I don't want him, and yet part of me does want him and is feeling so lonely for anyone at all.

Since we talked yesterday, I called Curt and this time he took my call. I told him what was going on, that I'd been asked out repeatedly by Steve and that I needed to know where I stood with him, once and for all. I said flat out that I preferred him more, that I was still very much in love with him and how sorry I was for everything again. I had no pride, I told him I would get back with him in a second if he wanted me to and that I promised to be loyal to him this time if he would take me back. In the end, I actually begged him to say that I was still his girl, that he wasn't going to let me go without a fight.

There was this pause on the other end, and he told me that I should go out on the date, that Steve was as good or bad as any other guy I would find out there, and that I was now free to date anyone. The fact that he said it so casually made me start to cry all over again, and I accused him of no longer loving me. He told me he did love me, but he knows that I will be happier with someone else, and that we had never been meant to be together. And then, he told me we shouldn't have as much to do with each other anymore, and that each of us should just try and forget the other, not even try and be friends, because even that wouldn't work.

Well, if he meant to reject me, I feel absolutely rejected. And I don't mind saying, I don't feel attractive to anyone anymore. He is deliberately pushing me into the arms of another man, not only that, the same man that caused the trouble between us, who he should, if anything, be angry at. I feel unwanted, unloved and I don't mind saying that I don't understand men at all. I don't know what they want, I don't know why they can't forgive, I don't understand how they can love you with all their heart one day, then forget about you tomorrow. I'm twenty-three years old, a lot of men find me attractive, and I poured out my heart to the man I love more than any other, and yet, that man doesn't want me. If the object was to make me feel even worse than I already did, well, he succeeded.

Can someone tell me what I should do, just what this man expects of me?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:07:55 pm
Aristotle

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Hello again, Michelle.

Well, you wanted advice. Normally, I would say that this is test, that he's pushing you towards the other guy because he wants to see if you will actually date him or not...

However, Curt really does sound kind of finished with you, sad to be the one to tell you. If he would have gotten angry with you when the two of you were on the phone, it might rightly be taken as a sign that he still cared. It does sort of sound like he's shut himself off from you completely.

Date the new guy. At the very least, you might have some fun and won't have to spend another night alone.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:08:16 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-14-2005 11:47 PM                       
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That's no answer!

I want you to tell me that I still have a chance with Curt, that there is something I can do to win him back. Please tell me, I get the feeling that this might be it for us, and I don't have it in me to just let go...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:08:46 pm
Aristotle

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I can't tell you that because it's not the truth.

You're the one who has to let go. He's moved on, from the sounds of things, time for you to do the same as well. If fate steps in, you might find one another again someday. You're a pretty girl, you don't believe me, but eventually you will find someone else.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:09:05 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-15-2005 12:05 AM                       
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You're not helping, how can I make you understand? It feels like Curt has always been in my life, and now, when I say I want suggestions how to win him back, your answer is to just let go. What if I can't let go? I feel just as bad today as yesterday, I know I'll feel the same tomorrow. This hurt has lasted so long I can't remember a time when I wasn't hurting.

I am lost, no one understands, no one has any suggestions for me, other than to just let go. And rather than put the blame for all this where it really belongs, on me, they want to blame poor Curt. I was the one who was cheating, and he's the one who gets the blame.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:09:42 pm
Calvin Noble

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Michelle, I would like to stress again my belief that premarital sex is the cause of your dilemma. I ask, would you even be drawn to this other man if you had not already had sinful relations with him? No, clearly your thoughts were with your boyfriend, and even then, the two of you should have waited.

All the problems of society today are of a sexual nature, yours are no different. Only a talk with your local clergy will set you back down the right path. However, since you have already shunned that suggestion, and all the others I have put forth to you, I would expect that you will continue down into the same immoral lifestyle that Veronica, Dawn and some of the others clearly have taken. If you do not value yourself first, expect no other man to value you either, and I mean that sincerely.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:10:01 pm
Calvin Noble

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Dawn, Norman raised a valid point, I believe. What proof can you offer that you were attacked?

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:10:28 pm
Aristotle

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Calvin, do you ever sleep, or do you constantly lie in wait for someone to come here, just so you can tell them how immoral they are?

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:10:51 pm
Pagan

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Calvin, what proof can you offer that you're not an a**hole? Because so far, I haven't seen any.

[ 04-15-2005, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: Pagan ]

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:11:12 pm
docyabut
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Michelle, Cavin is right,premarital sex is the cause of your dilemma.If you do not value yourself first, expect no other man to value you either. You say it feels like Curt has always been in your life, a clue you have been together in other lives and there is hope.It seems trust has been lost between you and Curt.I would call and tell him that you are sorry for the past mistakes, that you are taking a new lease on life not to date for a while, and not sleep with anyone, until you find that right person with the same new values.In the mean time don`t keep calling him, just looked good when you bump in to him, and what ever made him fall for you in the frist place could return.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:11:43 pm
 
Anteros

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   posted 04-15-2005 09:38 AM                       
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Well, it's finally happened. I've lost patience with Calvin Noble and his decidedly unchristian viewpoints towards women. The story of Veronica has touched me deeply because someone I love deeply has the same problem and all I can do is be there for her. Michelle also has my sympathy for I know what she's going through and I wish I had better advice for her.

I've changed my avatar (I hope it's working) to reflect what I do everytime I read one of Calvin Noble's posts... because his kind of Christian is what makes the world hate the rest of us so much. Intolerance like this has no place in the life of a Christian and it's physically hurting me now when I read his comments. So, Calvin Noble, take a page from your Lord, and learn how to speak to women:

Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman:


quote:
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He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back." "I have no husband," she replied.

Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."
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JOHN 4:1-26 NIV

Note: No condemnation of the woman.

Jesus and the Adultress:


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The religion scholars and Pharisees led in a woman who had been caught in an act of adultery. They stood her in plain sight of everyone and said, "Teacher, this woman was caught red-handed in the act of adultery. Moses, in the Law, gives orders to stone such persons. What do you say?" They were trying to trap him into saying something incriminating so they could bring charges against him.

Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger in the dirt. They kept at him, badgering him. He straightened up and said, "The sinless one among you, go first: Throw the stone." Bending down again, he wrote some more in the dirt.

Hearing that, they walked away, one after another, beginning with the oldest. The woman was left alone. Jesus stood up and spoke to her. "Woman, where are they? Does no one condemn you?"

"No one, Master."

"Neither do I," said Jesus. "Go on your way. From now on, don't sin."
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Note: No ranting and raving and accusations.

JOHN 8:3-11 The Message

Jesus and the prostitute:


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Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is that - she is a sinner."

Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."

"Tell me, teacher," he said.

"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."

"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.

Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven - for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
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LUKE 7:36-50 NIV

Note: again, no condemnation. None of these women were made to feel worthless, dirty losers, like you're making a few of the women here feel, Calvin Noble.

Have some shame. If you can't behave like a Christian then act like a man.

[ 04-15-2005, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Anteros ]

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"A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of Powers we cannot perceive."

Rush --> "Freewill"

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:12:06 pm
porthos

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   posted 04-15-2005 11:11 AM                   
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way to go Anteros. I couldn't agree more..

Love your new avatar too.. ;)

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life is for the here and now...live it to the fullest...

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:12:35 pm
Anassa

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   posted 04-15-2005 02:22 PM                       
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Michelle
You asked for help and many people gave you some good and sound advice, some of which you obviously took on board as you have seen Curt a few times and done your best to get him back.
But I am afraid there is no one that can give you what you truly want, to tell you there is some way to guarantee getting him back now or at some future point. It’s just not possible.

What I’m about to say you may sound a little harsh but reading through your recent posts what struck me most was how much of this was about YOUR needs, This is just food for thought.

I draw my own life source from him as well
I can't exist without him
I'm the one most suffering from being without him.
I want Curt and I simply can't let go
If I have an addiction it would be to him.
I've been missing him so much
I feel absolutely rejected.
I don't feel attractive to anyone anymore.
I feel unwanted, unloved
I want you to tell me that I still have a chance

Curt, who must also be feeling rejected and unloved, has obviously decided that his needs at this moment are to cut contact with you and let you go so you can find happiness with someone else. Either that or he is testing you, or else he just wants to see you grovel a bit. But if he is the nice guy you say he is then I should probably rule that out.

If he feels he needs peace of mind at the moment and you truly do LOVE him, rather than NEED him, you have to let him have his space. You have tried your best and that is all you can do.

Obviously Curt has his own issues when it comes to relationships since you mentioned he didn’t feel worthy of going out with someone as pretty as you. As Vlad said unless he breaks out of this mindset the same thing will happen to him again in the future. He may meet another pretty girl and again feel unworthy to be loved by her and will exhibit the same traits with her that initially drove you into the arms of someone else.

It’s like when people are obsessively jealous because they fear losing someone. They want to know all the time where their partner is, who they were with etc. In the end this drains the other person until they can’t take it any more and end it, so the first person’s initial fear of losing them comes to pass through their own thinking and actions. I’m not saying Curt is the jealous type. It’s only a common example of how destructive thoughts play out in real life.

It seems like the most difficult thing in the world to let go but try to see how it might prove beneficial in the long run. You have learned a hard lesson at a young age. One day it might make sense because that lesson may save a future and very important relationship for you. Who knows, maybe it’s Steve.

I know this is not what you want to hear but to tell you that there was hope for you and Curt, just to make you feel better, would not be truthful. In the same way telling you there was no hope would be equally as bad. Only Curt can tell you that.

Everyone here with the exception of two people can sympathise and offer words of comfort but no one here can make the hurt you’re feeling go away.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:13:33 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-15-2005 03:22 PM                       
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here ya goooooooooooo


Genetic Causes Of Infidelity Found In Twins Study


This is excerpt from an intersting blog article about infidelity we located at Future Pundits

A comparison of the sexual histories of 1600 identical and non-identical twins found that genetic variations play a large role in influencing the tendency to infidelity among women.

“We found that around 40 percent of the influence on the number of sexual partners and infidelity were due to genetic factors,” Professor Tim Spector, director of the Twin Research Unit at St Thomas’ Hospital in London, told a news conference.

Identical twins whose twin has strayed have twice the normal chance of straying.

The findings mean that someone with a philandering twin is far more likely to philander themselves. The average risk of female infidelity is about 22%, says Spector, but those with an unfaithful identical twin have a risk of 44%.

Women tend to stray to hook up with higher status men.

The study, which was published in the journal Twin Research, suggests that a genetic predisposition towards female infidelity may have evolved because it was important in allowing women married to “low status” men surreptitiously to become pregnant by “high status” men.

“If female infidelity and number of sexual partners are under considerable genetic influence, as this study demonstrates, the logical conclusion is that these behaviours persist because they have been evolutionary advantageous for women,” the researchers write in their scientific paper.

Female straying for higher status males offers a selective advantage that could have been selected for.

From an evolutionary perspective, a woman’s best short-term strategy would be to clandestinely pursue men with better genes.

Prof Spector points out that women tend to have affairs with men of higher status than their husbands. However, the system would break down, he said, if “everyone was unfaithful, because there would be no pair-bonding".

Three chromosomes were identified in this study as likely locations for genes that influence the odds of monogamy.

It lends strong support to theories advanced by evolutionary psychologists such as Steven Pinker, of Harvard University, who argue that human sexual behaviour is at least partly determined by natural selection and our genes.
OK there ya have it.....

on with LOVE lol

[ 04-15-2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:14:08 pm
docyabut
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Istar, we all know the evolutionally traits of male and female in the genes :) ,however what counts is the family that comes between a male and female that bonds in the end.And that is not from a biological view point, but from teaching those values of what is important in a family.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:14:33 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-15-2005 08:11 PM                   
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Born without women:

“Within Paracelsus' natural world roamed God's creatures (man, women and animal) and man's synthetic creatures (homunculi and basilisks). Paracelsus believed that homunculi were one of Nature's greatest marvels; they were in all ways like a man in shape and form but much smaller and begotten without the aid of woman. They sprouted from man's seed alone, and contained the physical potential of pure man without any corruption or impurity from woman's influence. Thus they appeared to have preturnatural tendencies or a second sight that allowed them to understand the inner workings of Nature itself like no other creature could.
The recipe for making a homunculus is as follows:
Let the semen of a man putrefy by itself in a sealed cucurbite with the highest putrefaction of the venter equinus [a 'horse's womb', or substantial equivalent] for forty days, or until it begins at last to live, move, and be agitated, which can easily be seen. After this time it will be in some degree like a human being, but, nevertheless transparent and without body. If now, after this, it be every day nourished and fed cautiously and prudently with the arcanum of human blood, and kept for forty weeks in the perpetual and equal heat of venter equinus,, it becomes thenceforth a true and living infant, having all the members of a child that is born from a woman, but much smaller... And although up to this time [this procedure] has not been known to men, it was, nevertheless, known to the wood-sprites and nymphs and giants long ago, because they themselves were sprung from this source; since from such homunculi when they come to manhood are produced giants, pygmies, and other marvelous people, who are instruments of great things, who get great victories over their enemies, and know all secret and hidden matters (from The Nature of Man).
Paracelsus says homunculi are created from Art, thus Art is incorporated into them; "There is no need for them to learn, but others are compelled to learn from them (from The Nature of Man)." Their only drawback is that they contain no soul, for the soul is an emergent property of the perfect union of male and female seed within the womb. Having no female input, the homunculus is rendered incapable of possessing a rational, virtuous connection to God. So even though they are capable of producing amazing good, they also run the risk of doing much harm. If their physical prowess is led astray there is no restraint or resilience of the homunculus to curb its actions. It does what it needs to do, and is not hindered by an ethical conscience.
Whereas homunculi epitomize the potential of man, basilisks embody everything that is wrong or evil in the world. Created neither from male nor female seed, basilisks are horrific monsters that spit poison from their eyes and cause destruction in their wake. They are the result of taking the menstrual fluid of a woman and incubating it in venter equinus in the same fashion as a homunculus. But since basilisks are made from the leakage of evil from the human body, they have no potential for physical good, and likewise contain no soul.”

"The generatio homunculi was held very secret until today, and about it we knew so little that the ancient philosophers had doubts of its possibility. But I know that such things can be done by spagyric art and natural processes. If the sperm, closed in an hermetically sealed vase, is buried into horse dung for about 40 days, and properly magnetized, it starts to live and move. After this time it looks like a shape resembling a human being, but it will be much more transparent and without any corpus. If you feed it artificially with the Arcanum sanguinis hominis until it reach about 40 weeks, and if during this time it can stay in horse dung at equal temperature, it will become a human child, with all the limbs developed as like other children born by a woman, but it will be much smaller. We call a similar being humunculus, and he can be nurtured and educated as other children, until he becomes tall, obtains reason and intellect and can take care of himself."
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:15:23 pm
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-15-2005 09:41 PM                       
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Anteros, I would like to suggest that it is you who have behaved in a less than manly matter. I have read some of your past posts, you clearly have knowledge of the Bible, and yet you don't ever use it to instruct others, but let them, confused chidren like Michelle, simply go about their own way, wandering through the abyss. Don't you feel the responsiblity to help others, or are you, like so many others here, simply concerned of what they might think of you? The only opinion that should matter to you is what the lord might think of you. Even Absonite tries to help others as he sees fit, yes, even he with his strange Urantia Book he tries to do that.

Good that you have expressed your true feelings about me, for I have always gotten the feeling that you are one of those who accept the teachings of the New Testament over the Old. Be that as it may, Christ may urge forgiveness, but make no mistake, he does not encourage adultery. And, with the exception of my admittedly stern words to Veronica, of whom I am better acquainted than you are (after months of hearing of her moral wanderings here), I believe that I have treated the other women here most fairly. Michelle has asked for guidance and I have done nothing more than to try and give her some. If my words may at times be stern, it is because I care for her immortal soul, and don't want this confused young girl to walk down the same path that these others have taken. When have you ever given her guidance? The child is in torment, and the words she gets from you are none.

You will also noted that, at Anassa's urgings, I apologized to Veronica forsome of my comments, even though I didso more for a peacekeeping gesture than anything else. Good that you have the desire to help your friend, it is the Christian way, but I would think carefully before linking Veronica too closely with your friend. Veronica is not your friend, she is a woman so deeply attached to her sins right now that unless she has some remarkable turnaround and has a spiritual awakening, her soul will be damned for all of eternity. She is in my prayers, but make no mistake, the shame that should be felt here is hers, and hers alone. And if you have developed some affinity for Veronica, and are a Christian as you say, I would urge you to tell her (in your own way), to repent her sins, again, something I have yet to see you do.

If we truly care about our brothers and sisters, we tend to want the best for our brothers and sisters, and finding God is uppermost of those things. Let us not confuse the sin with the sinner, however, let us also not become confused by the sinner as well. I trust that we understand one another better now.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:16:12 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 04-15-2005 09:47 PM                       
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I've just been reading through the additions on this thread during the last week and would like to offer these pointed observations.

The first, being the most obvious:

Wow, Michelle, you have suffered so much. And you're so brave, too! Laying bare your whole life on an Internet forum for all to see.

Trevor, you're developing a crush on Michelle, aren't you? Well, forget it, buddy, her life is currently complicated enough as it is, she doesn't need the added complication of James Dean adding to it.

Calvin, just what is at your secret hatred for Dawn, and, seemingly women in general?

Norman, when are you going to confess your love for Calvin? The affection between the two of you is the strongest I see growing here, Michelle's love for Curt is fading, like the sunset in the west.

Aristotle, when are you going to actually unload on Calvin? It is clear you have the capacity, but have been holding back.

Would anybody even care a bit what Michelle had to say if she didn't look like a cheerleader?

Do the President and the Vice President really have this much time on their hands? Who is running the country while they're both off, posting here?

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☼The Pagan ☼
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:16:38 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-15-2005 10:11 PM                   
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quote:
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Aristotle, when are you going to actually unload on Calvin? It is clear you have the capacity, but have been holding back.
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Norman probably doesn't need a helping hand for that job. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:17:01 pm
Valerie

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   posted 04-15-2005 10:24 PM                       
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Wow, Dawn, I never knew so much stuff was over in this section. I wish I had some good stories to share, but mine would be pretty boring by comparison. I feel terrible for you, Veronica and Ishtar, I can only imagine what your lives must have been like. Calvin and Norman, I don't know either of you guys very well, but you seem like a couple of crabs.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:17:19 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 04-15-2005 10:38 PM                       
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Wow is right. Throughout the ages, women have always had men tell them what to do and even though this is an Internet forum, things are no different here. Your abrasive personalities aside for the moment, Calvin and Norman, do you really believe because you're men, it makes you somehow superior to the rest of us?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:17:51 pm
 
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-15-2005 10:55 PM                       
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No, I believe that the Almighty is superior to all of us, and his rules should be followed, not bent, broken or ignored to suit the urges of immoral individuals. I trust that answers your question?

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:18:04 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-15-2005 11:34 PM                       
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Docyabut, thank you for your advice. I have no intention of jumping into bed with anyone, we weren't an overly religious family, but my parents raised me better than that. I have apologized several times to Curt, and he knows all of my feelings, and he's made it clear he doesn't want me. About trying to go without dating for awhile, I'm not certain I could to that if I tried. At this point in time, I feel so unwanted and unattractive. I would like to make some kind of promise to myself, and yet, I am so very lonely right now. You have no idea how awful I feel. I have had someone in my life for two years, and now I have no one. There's a certain kind of security you feel when you're with a man that loves you, and it has nothing to do with sex either. I don't feel protected or cared for anymore, there isn't even any male figure in my life.

Pagan, I apologize if anything I've said has offended you. I'm not trying to dominate the forum with my problems. I just don't have anyone in my life I can talk to right now who understands. Please don't be mean or judgmental to me.

[ 04-15-2005, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Michelle Sandberg ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:18:24 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-15-2005 11:40 PM                       
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quote:
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Note: again, no condemnation. None of these women were made to feel worthless, dirty losers, like you're making a few of the women here feel, Calvin Noble.
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I feel like a dirty loser everytime you write something about me, Calvin. That one post where you added me to your list of the immoral just made me break down and cry...why are you so mean to everyone??
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:18:46 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-16-2005 12:03 AM                       
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Anassa,

I think the point you were trying to make was that I am being selfish and more concerned with what I want than what Curt wants. But that's only partly true, I am concerned with what I want and also would like to take care of him as he has always done for me. Good intentions have to count for something, don't they? And yet, you, and everyone else here is right when you say that I have to let go. If everyone says that, if even Curt has said that to me, than it must be right. He's made it clear with his actions both yesterday and today that he doesn't want me. Maybe no one anymore really wants me, maybe I don't even want me. I feel like total dirt, I lost the man of my dreams and all I have left of the two of us is my memories and a few photographs of the two of us. I'm not even certain if the cheating was what did it, maybe I lost him before that, in fact, maybe I never had him at all. Maybe it was all an illusion and I what I always ended up seeing as true love was for me, yet never was for him. But you're all wrong about one thing here - anyone who thought that Curt was a bad person or has some personality defect or didn't fit well into society is very wrong. Other than my father, he was the most caring, the most giving, the most wonderful man I have ever known. I am the one at fault here and if there is any blame for anything it lies squarely with me.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:19:06 pm
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 04-16-2005 12:03 AM                       
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You could always try the eHarmony route...

www.eHarmony.com

I meet many compatible personalities there myself but the relocation issue is just way too much. If you don't live in New York or Alaska I'd reccomend the settings just limited to your state.

In Alaska there are 10 men to every one woman. 

In NYS women fall into the user, cuntress, or gold-digger category.  I'm currently 4 months into my eHarmony membership of a year but I have to admit the distance factor makes it a tough pill to swallow when meeting many great matches but their life circumstances are incompatible with actually getting to meet them. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:19:31 pm
 
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 04-16-2005 12:08 AM                       
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but what other option do I have, I live in a state where women in college towns date prisoners then wonder why they get beaten and taken advantage of. 

At least thru eHarmony for a short time anyway I can really respect my matches' intelligence. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:19:53 pm
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-16-2005 12:08 AM                       
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Volitzer, the last thing that a confused child like Michelle needs in her life is more men.


quote:
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I feel like a dirty loser everytime you write something about me, Calvin. That one post where you added me to your list of the immoral just made me break down and cry...why are you so mean to everyone??
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Michelle, child, I assure you that was not my intention. That is the weight of your guilt speaking, it has nothing to do with me at all. Had you not so freely sinned in the first place, you would have no reason to cry. Abstinence is the way, and will lead you out of the moral quagmire you are in now.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:20:12 pm
Pagan

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   posted 04-16-2005 12:12 AM                       
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Michelle, this is Friday night, shouldn't you be out with one of your two boyfriends? I thought you were all set to give the new guy a whirl.

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☼The Pagan ☼
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:20:33 pm
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 04-16-2005 12:22 AM                       
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Anteros, I don't believe that Calvin has been overly hard on any of the women here, Veronica included. If you remember correctly, Veronica, Dawn, even Michelle volunteered this information about their personal lives quite freely. This is an Internet forum, is it not? A place for opinions. If they didn't wish to have any opinions, perhaps they shouldn't have volunteered such personal details in the first place. We might all be better off anyway, and that would make this more of a family forum.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:20:53 pm
Pagan

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   posted 04-16-2005 12:25 AM                       
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You know, I don't think I would come here if it was going to be just a family forum. I like all those racy details.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:21:12 pm
Scorpio5

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   posted 04-16-2005 12:42 AM                       
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Michelle, once again it hurts me to see you in such great pain. You are the soul of true love and you must give it to someone. Forget about Curt and fogo all thoughts of a reconciliation. Take a new lover and then let him have you, body and soul. Don't listen to what Calvin and some of the other moralists say here, they just exist to bring you down. They try to dampen your true nature. Give yourself to someone and let him have you in all manner of ways. A girl like you, as beautiful as you was made for one thing only, to love and be loved. Don't be ashamed of it, find and embrace your true nature.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:21:40 pm
Anassa

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   posted 04-16-2005 05:36 AM                       
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Michelle

When it comes to relationships we can all be a little selfish and tend to focus on how the other person can make US feel. It’s just human nature but we put a heavy burden on that other person by making them responsible for our own happiness. It’s good to be happy with another person but depending on them for our own happiness is not. Neither is giving away our own self respect to make someone else happy.

You have taken a small step by thinking things through like you did in your most recent post.
Now you need to get past the guilt. The fact that you feel guilty at all should tell you that you are a person with the strength of character to admit when you were wrong and express remorse.
Others in your position so often would not feel guilty at all, or they might try to make excuses by blaming someone else for their actions. So give yourself a pat on the back and take a conscious decision to stop punishing yourself.

I don’t know if you believe in God but with the amount of remorse you have shown here, I’m quite sure he has forgiven you, and if he can then so can you. Sorry for the “Calvin-speak” but that about sums it up on a spiritual level without getting into the whys and wherefores of why we do the things we do.

I know that what you really want is practical advice, not some hocus pocus that tells you to forgive yourself but not tell you how to go about doing it. I hate when people do that 
First try taking a decision to move on. Say it your mind, out loud or write it down if you want. “I did wrong. I’m sorry for what I did. I’m going to put it behind me because I can’t change it. I won’t make the same mistake again”.
Until you take that decision, you won’t be able to get past any of this. It’s a choice.

It might help to review your relationship with Curt by writing it down from the beginning. Leave nothing out and try not to only think of the good times. Try to remember in detail back to the point where you cheated on Curt and what was running through your mind at the time that made you do it, and be absolutely honest with yourself. You don’t need to show it to anyone and you can destroy it after you read it.
You might be surprised what the mind throws out on paper when you read it back and apply what you read to yourself.

Sometimes people are sent into our lives to show us things about ourselves that we need to know. Their leaving means the lesson has been imparted but we have to see it before we can learn from it.

I wrote a very accusing letter to an ex once who was a compulsive liar, commitment phobe, insecure, spoiled, devious, immature (at 50) who thought he was the centre of the universe.
He ended up in jail (misdemeanor) where I stood by him but only as a friend, when everyone else abandoned him as I had lost respect for him as a partner.
I tried very hard to support him thinking he might just see the lesson and change his ways. When he came out, nothing had changed. Although we were not together the lies started again so I cut him off.

I was so angry with him for my wasted efforts to ‘save’ him that I let fly in an email I sent. I could not get past the anger until one day it occurred to me during meditation that he had been sent into my life NOT for me to change him, like I thought. It was for me to change myself. The anger I felt towards him was anger towards me, and some of the things I said in the mail were things I needed to look at in myself.

For instance you mentioned Curt’s “doom and gloom” tendencies. Perhaps the message in part is that you were not meant to make his life better by making HIM feel happier, but to look at your own “doom and gloom” outlook and change that instead ie “Maybe no one anymore really wants me, maybe I don't even want me”.

I hope something here helps you on on some level.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:22:01 pm
 
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 04-16-2005 08:44 PM                       
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Michelle:

I don't know you or this Curt's background but you shouldn't beat yourself up emotionally if it just incompatibility.

If you wanted to for the hell if it have you and Curt sit down and take eHarmony's personality profile for free. If you 2 don't get matched in their system then you 2 know you're incompatible and work from there. It's when you go to communicate is when eHarmony actually charges. However the 29 dimensions of compatibility test they got there has actually been patented. Which is the only service to ever have patented psychology.

I own no stock in the company nor am I getting paid by them. I just know their has to be a psychological science to relationships and that anyone vying for a relationship deserves not to have it blow up in their face due to incompatible core values.

I don't know where you're posting from but if you did put the setting on just your state you'd be suprised how everything else falls into place.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:22:38 pm
Author  Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future 
Akelius

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   posted 04-16-2005 08:54 PM                       
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Michelle (and all the girls and guys here who seem to be having some trouble), if your relationships are going badly, just take some time alone. Study, research, the world has a lot more to offer in it than just sex and romance, you know, which often fades. Everyone here must have those other interests in the first place, else they wouldn't be here.

At first, I thought it was a little self-indulgent reading all of this. And then, I realized how big a deal relationships are to people's lives and think that maybe we just don't tend to talk about them enough. Women, and their problems need to be taken more seriously by men.

And shame on you, Calvin Noble, for being so damned judgmental.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:23:01 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-16-2005 09:48 PM                       
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quote:
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If you wanted to for the hell if it have you and Curt sit down and take eHarmony's personality profile for free. If you 2 don't get matched in their system then you 2 know you're incompatible and work from there. It's when you go to communicate is when eHarmony actually charges. However the 29 dimensions of compatibility test they got there has actually been patented. Which is the only service to ever have patented psychology.
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Any pictures of any of the women, Volitzer? I've never been to any of those dating sites.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:23:23 pm
 
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-16-2005 10:08 PM                       
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Ishtar, thank you so very much for the kindness and understanding that you showed me. Actually, your telling your story helped inspire me to tell mine, and I am truly sorry that you've had such a hard life. From what I see of you here, it's made you a good person, I think, and I don't think that I can say that my experiences have done the same for me.

I do hold myself responsible for the state of my life. I have low self-esteem, and I realize now that the only way I way I feel important is when men end up sleeping with me. I've never gotten along with my father, and even though I love my mother, I know she's hiding her very low opinion of me. When the **** first happened, both seemed supportive, but during an argument I had with them weeks later, my father told me what he really thought. He actually told me that because I dressed so provactively it brought it all on, moreorless that I had been asking to get raped. Understand that I had been a virgin before then, I actually hadn't even kissed anyone before that and only been out on one date. I was just coming into my own sexually. There wasn't just one boy, there were two, and believe it or not, because my father didn't want the embarrassment of attention, he never even contacted the police. They went unpunished. They robbed me of the most precious thing a girl can have, her innocence, and they got absolutely away with it. One of the boys who raped me is now a loan officer in a bank in my hometown, the other became a policeman. Believe it or not, both are considered good citizens. I have yet to find a decent job. Isn't it funny how life works? I truly feel like someone upstairs is laughing at me, having a great joke at my expense. Calvin actually reminds me of my father, which is why I hate him so much, more concerned with his dignity than his daughter.
Well, after that, I slept with more boys than anyone did in high school, just to get back at my father. I had the worst reputation of anyone in my class. My father retaliated by kicking me out of the house once I turned eighteen. On my own, I even managed to get pregnant. I was in no position to take care of myself, let alone a child, so I was forced to have an abortion, she'd be six if she lived today. I've always wanted a little girl which is why I tend to say "her." You mentioned prostitution, well, actually I've even had to resort to that at times if I didn't have enough money for the rent. There are just no depths to which I will not lower myself. After a time, my parents cut me off, and there was nothing else I could do, so I had to do it. In fact, I've done just about anything you can think of to degrade myself that you can possibly imagine, every degrading sexual act, there are even **** pictures someplace.
It's a miracle I've never caught any sexual diseases, let alone already be dead from one. I used to think that life was saving me for some better purpose, that this was just a passing phase that many girls go through. Then, I realized today that I've been having the same lifestyle now for almost ten years, where did all the time go?

I don't have much to do with my parents anymore and they want nothing to do with me either. Talking about all this now brings the memories all flooding back, and I must admit these last few days, I've begun to feel quite depressed.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:23:48 pm
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-16-2005 10:40 PM                       
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Tonight, I reached, what I think is a new low for me. I slept with a man that I had known, at best, an hour.

I was feeling quite depressed so I drove out to this hotel by the airport that I sometimes go to and sat in the hotel bar. The music is good, nice jazz, and it helps me to think, relax. I was dressed in a blouse and a short skirt, which sounds provacative, but it really wasn't, those are the kind of clothes I usually wear. I have a good body and it's just a habit for me to wear clothes that show off my legs and highlight my posterior. Normally, I can be alone there with my thoughts, but that night there was a man in the bar, years older than me, taking glances in my direction. It didn't take long for me to realize that he was attracted to me, in about the same amount of time I realized that I was attracted to him, too. I tried to resist the pull and I told myself that it wouldn't happen again. I made only fleeting eye contact, tried to ignore him, even sat on my hands, I felt so obsessive about it, I had to draw the line at some point in time, right? This would be it. And yet, I felt this tingling all over my body...

He sent a drink over to me and then, I was obligated to look up and notice him, the bartender told me that he'd asked if he could come over and sit with me for a bit before his plane left. Even though I usually don't even drink, something inside me would have felt ungrateful if I would have said no, and besides, he looked as sad as I was and I thought we might both use a little cheering up. Up close, he was about twenty years older than I was, and I found him ruggedly good-looking. In no time, the conversation moved from one about his plane and hotel to one about me. He told me how lovely he thought I was, remarked especially on my blue eyes, my blonde hair. It was the same flirting talk that I had heard a thousand, if not a million times before. There was nothing particularly inventive or cute about it, and yet, it seemed to be exactly what I needed to hear at the time, to still feel like a part of the human race.

We spent about ten minutes talking at best before he invited me up to his hotel room. He said he was leaving that night, but had the room booked for another day just in case of a flight delay. I thought about all the reasons why I shouldn't go, but none of them stood up to the one reason I felt I had to go: I needed to feel like a woman again in anyway that I could. I needed to be appreciated by a man and I needed to feel some value. Yes, it took ten minutes to melt all my reserve and get me to go up with him to his hotel room. Ten minutes, some cheap, old-fashioned flattery, and a margarita which I didn't even end up drinking. Only once I was on the elevator did I fully realize what I had done, but by that time, it was too late. His hands freely touched by body, even "accidentally" brushed against my rear end. Oddly, I felt a little flushed and ashamed, knew what was coming next, and yet, knew I could no longer get out of it if I tried. I had made the commitment, and everything had changed. Once I had gotten his blood up, there was no going back. I also realized, to my shame, that the closer we got to his room, the less I even had it in me me to say no. On the elevator and in the hall, he made bad jokes, while taking direct glances at my body like a wolf wanting to devour me whole. Everything he did, he was always pushing the limits of what he could say or do, seeing how far I would go. I gave him none. And then, once we got to his hotel room, even the whole veneer of civility had stopped. First, he closed and locked the door behind us, then began kissing and holding me tightly so that I couldn't get away. Immediately, he began tugging off my clothes, fondling me. I didn't want to but, as usual, I grew moist with the passion. He carried me over to the bed, let me tumble inside. Then, he began pulling off his own clothes, anxious to get back to me again. Very little foreplay was involved, and I didn't want any either, we were both so heated it wasn't necessary. He got on top of me, was much bigger and than I was, even muscular, and the moment he began kissing me, well, I immediately gave in. My legs moved apart and he took full advantage. I didn't care what had been going on in my life before this moment or after it either, I just needed to feel like a woman once again, to someone anyway. He penetrated me and I felt filled to the core, all my nerve endings just centering on one place. Everything felt so much larger than I imagined it would be, and, as it continued, his confidence seemed to increase while all mine just seemed to go away. Once again, I was made to feel like an object, a thing to be loved, and then left, and once again, I had no problems with that. At best, I think we made love for something like forty-five minutes.

When it was all over, I needed to be loved some more, but I did feel every bit like a woman again, for a short time, anyway. The aftermath of this affection was so short-lived. The worst part is when they don't hold you after, you almost want to cry when they don't do that. He still had a plane to catch, but I gave him my name and number and the next time he's in town, he'll try to see me again. There was a hurried kiss and hug gooodbye, he told me I could stay in the room for another day if I wanted because it was paid for that long. Of course, I left immediately, then went back home. The whole thing lasted, at best, I think, an hour. Even though I gave him my name, I didn't even think to ask for his. He met me, took me, I didn't even learn his name, we didn't even use protection, and then he was gone.

I wish I could say that I cried afterwards, that I felt some remorse, but I didn't. My one regret is that it didn't last longer, and if he ever does look me up, like all the others, I will definitely be seeing him again.

I am a sexual addict and I know one day, I'll end up destroying myself. I let men treat me like a **** and they get away with it. The only importance I feel in my life is when I let them treat me like an object. My lust for sex is insatiable and I just don't know how to make it stop. Being made love to is the only thing that makes me feel like a woman, it's the only thing that makes me feel special at all.

Tomorrow night, I have a date with a man who's been my occasional lover for close to two years now. I suppose he's the closest thing I have to a male friend. I have no doubt that we'll end up in bed together, too, and I'm thankful that at least it will be with someone nice, but I still feel so vacant and distant. If one of these days, I simply stop coming to the forums, don't be surprised. I think that I have probably embarrassed myself more than anyone else has this week and I can't believe how much I have told, and what you all know about me. I suppose I can only imagine what you all must think of me right now.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:24:12 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-16-2005 11:02 PM                       
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Veronica, I believe that some of the conversations we've had here are forcing you to be a little too hard on yourself. You seem to have had the same lifestyle for ten years, but have only lately had a problem with it. Just because you had a one-night stand doesn't mean you put yourself in a position to be judged by anyone. Whatever life you have or want, the first requirement should be that you do what makes you the happiest.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:24:32 pm
Felecia

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  posted 04-16-2005 11:12 PM                       
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Veronica's problem is not that she may have sexual addiction. It is that bastards like Calvin are around to make her feel guilty about it. Does anyone truly believe that one true God cares all that much about a person's sexual activities? What is that compared to murder and war? The day will come, Calvin Noble, where people like you will meet your creator, then people like you have to explain all the hate and trash you have spewed in Her Name.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:24:56 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-16-2005 11:54 PM                       
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"I truly feel like someone upstairs is laughing at me, having a great joke at my expense."

Dear heart, Not laughing....but ready always to aid you whenever you ask. That "someone upstairs" is actually your own "I AM Presence", your own God-self, which is above you always. YOU ARE NEVER ALONE....

Your situation is not unique. BUT, You have given over the operation of your life to entities. These are energies that attach to people in times of extreme trauma. They have an abiding interest in sex or cigs, or booze, or you name it. Each one is "single-minded" you might say, if it had a mind, but it doesn't...all it has is desire. Even fulfilling it's desire doesn't stop the desire.

Actually, your sexual life is no impediment to your spiritual advancement. It is only your self image that holds you back. The way you think and speak is first and foremost in importance there. Self conciousness is the way we consider how we are. "I am a sexual addict" supports that reality. "I am a woman who is in control of her sexual feelings" supports that reality. You can and should observe carefully how you speak about yourself, as any statement of "I AM" is a command to the cosmos, and nothing can stop it, but your own words and thoughts. Between you and me, (as I have been through much that is similar) this is well worth the effort. Wish I had started as young as you are!

Love to you, dear....

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:25:23 pm
 
Proteus

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   posted 04-17-2005 01:58 AM                       
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I agree with everything that Rockessence and Akelius said, it's a self-esteem issue. But I also blame society for constantly enforcing such hypocritical standards on what women are supposed to be, forcing them to have low self-esteem when they can't live up to those standards. Whether it's the standards of what their moral behavior, or the standards of beauty, men are given no such pressures. The current administration only makes it worse.

And what foul people you must be to the women in your lives, Calvin & Norman, if you treat the ones here with such contempt.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:25:42 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-17-2005 03:14 AM                       
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Felecia,

RE: "Does anyone truly believe that one true God cares all that much about a person's sexual activities? What is that compared to murder and war?"

You make an excellent point here....Damage is not done by two of the same mind in any action that is positive, creative, loving, honest and true....

Damage is most assuredly done when one does not wish to participate and is then coerced or bullied, thus being pulled away from where that mind desires to be. This is the case in many sexual misadventures, up to and including **** and forcing sexual experience or even awareness upon children. This latter includes the nature of speech and entertainment around innocents.

Those who commit acts of this nature will be required to work to balance the debt in a future life.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:26:01 pm
docyabut
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Veronia, I don`t believe you have a sexual addiction, more like a punishment addiction, since from your very frist experience of sex was ****.And you will keep punishment your self until you do get many STD, that will end up really hurting or even kill you.Clean up your act.**** was not your fault, you still have something very special to give. I notice you have a gift of expression in writing. Take some courses in literture, you could write a famous novel some day. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:27:58 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-17-2005 08:54 PM                   
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You people seem to judge Calvin Noble a lot, but I tell you I sympathize a lot with his ideals and views and especially his zeal and care, even though I do not share the same or many of his Christian views.

What people like Calvin Noble need is a new religion, the true religion before it got corrupted as Catholicism.

The Way of the Light made clearly visible.

Much trash needs to be removed, from new age to conventional religion be it eastern or western.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:28:28 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 04-17-2005 09:11 PM                       
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Vlad, but isn't Calvin also doing some judging himself here?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:28:47 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 04-17-2005 09:15 PM                       
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quote:
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No, I believe that the Almighty is superior to all of us, and his rules should be followed, not bent, broken or ignored to suit the urges of immoral individuals. I trust that answers your question?
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But don't men do that all the time? Why is it that the only ones that you seem to come down on here are women, Calvin?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:29:05 pm
 
Vlad
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  posted 04-17-2005 09:17 PM                   
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quote:
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Vlad, but isn't Calvin also doing some judging himself here?
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So?

Don't start with the 'judging is this and that' etc.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:29:24 pm
Jade Hellene

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   posted 04-17-2005 09:28 PM                       
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One of the reasons I decided to begin posting here is to dispel some of the drivel put forward by Calvin Noble. He sickens me.

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Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:29:45 pm
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 04-17-2005 09:37 PM                       
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quote:
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You people seem to judge Calvin Noble a lot, but I tell you I sympathize a lot with his ideals and views and especially his zeal and care, even though I do not share the same or many of his Christian views.
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Vlad, I'm sure that Calvin would be heartened by your support.


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What people like Calvin Noble need is a new religion, the true religion before it got corrupted as Catholicism.
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Vlad, what's wrong with Catholicsm? I happen to be Catholic myself.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 22, 2008, 01:30:25 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-17-2005 11:49 PM                       
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Something else terrible happened in my life, and I hope people here won't be too judgmental of me.

Saturday morning, Steve called me for the fourth time this week, once again asking for a date. Since I made up my mind to go on with my life, and move on from Curt, this time, I found myself saying yes. I made up my mind it would be just the typical dinner and a movie and that we wouldn't do anything afterwards. I know it was too soon to begin dating anyone again, but lately, I have been feeing so alone. After we hung up, I got to thinking that I had to talk to Curt again and tell him what had happened. I called him up and told him about the date, I said that the one I really wanted to be with was him and that I would only go if he gave his permission. I actually asked my ex-boyfriend for his permission to date someone new, permission which he once again gave. I was heartbroken when we got off the phone, I just sat there on my bed and cried. I got the feeling that Curt was angry with me, but I didn't know if it the reason why was because I kept on calling him or because I was going out on a date.

Even though he gave his permission, I decided I still couldn't go. I was too depressed to see
anybody again, it didn't feel right, and so, I called up Steve and told him I couldn't go after all, that I needed more time. At first he was fine with it, then about an hour later, he called back and managed to talk me back into keeping the date, all over again. He made plans to pick me up at seven.

About three our before he was to come, I called his house and cancelled once again because I once more had misgivings, he wasn't there, so I left a message with one of his roommates. I went to the video store and rented that movie, "Notebook," because the characters remind me of myself and Curt. Well, as soon as I started watching it, Steve arrived, said he hadn't gotten the message and thought we were still on for tonight. I told him I'd cancelled, but he begged me to let him stay to watch the movie because he hadn't seen it before, and wanted to. I also felt a little guilty, because by this time it was too late for him to make any other plans.

We talked a lot during the movie and he asked what Curt thought of all this, that the two of us had been planning another date. I told him that he'd been fine with it, but my emotions welled up within me again, and I started to cry, hating the thought. Steve, sitting on the couch with me, put his arms around me to comfort me. And then, it all just came out. I told him how awful I felt, that the whole life I had dreamed for myself was now gone, that I had ended up with no one, and that I didn't even feel attractive anymore. He just held me, letting me cry into his chest, and then he kissed me. Soon, despite myself, I found myself kissing him back. For the first time in weeks, I felt like a person again. He carried me into my bedroom, placed me on the bed, I felt like a child as he began to undress me. He was confident, slow, he took his time with me, and when he, well, went into me, it was like he took away all my responsibilities and gave me some new strength. It didn't feel rushed like it did the two other times, this time there was no one I was cheating on, and we were in the privacy of my own bedroom. It didn't feel the same as it did with Curt, he obviously had been with other
girls and certainly knew what he was doing, but when it was all over, for the first time in weeks, I felt something like an inner peace.

I'm considering dating Steve now and I can only imagine what you all must think of me. He seems like a man that I can count on and I know that he cares about me, it was all about more than just sex with him. The one thing that concerns me about a possible relationship with him is that our relationship would begin in the middle, nothing to build up to later on, nothing that will be stolen, romantic or special. The sex may be immoral, but it also makes me feel pretty again somehow, I need to feel some of that in my life right now.

But I'm not kidding myself, there is no love here, at least not yet. I'm doing it simply because I don't like to be alone and I need someone I can count on in my life.

The one I still love with all my heart and soul is my Curt, he is my heart and soul, and even when I was making love with Steve, I saw his face..?

But he doesn't want me so I have given myself to another. Because, I've found that the only thing worse than not belonging to the man that you love is to belong to no one at all. I'm not an angel, just a confused girl who has lost everything that ever meant anything to her in her life and I've taken the only road I could take in this life to preserve my sense of self worth and my sanity.

Can someone, anyone please tell me, did I do right or did I do wrong..? I just don't know what the truth is anymore...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: HereForNow on April 22, 2008, 06:35:50 pm
Aristotle, that is a great job man.

This is some of the best that this topic has ever served up.
These wonderful confessions of ours is the start of real problem solving.

I know I confessed my sins here a few times and it felt so good to tell these forbidden things about myself. It's mutually agreed that some things are better left unsaid. However, the things you can share are nice to get off your chest.


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: HereForNow on April 22, 2008, 06:45:25 pm
In fact while I'm here. I'm at my wits end with certain aspects of my marriage.
I love her dearly and I would never want anything bad for her ever.
Yet, I am feeling that urge to cheat again and this time it's with someone that is always over here.

We flirt in secret all the time, but recently I kissed her and it was hot.
She flat asked me to come over to her house but right there and then it was not a good time for me with everything that was going on that day.

I don't want this and yet it feels so right and I get so confused about my own emotions in this.
Thats why I simply shut off my feelings and do the damn thing.

 :(
Yet this makes me a bad person, in the eyes of everyone else around me.
Regretful, I feel like I could care less what they say, what consequences will come it, or how it will effect my marriage.

Opinions?


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:23:27 pm
My answer is in the other Love thread, Herefornow.


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:23:38 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-18-2005 11:47 AM                   
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In the gospel, Jesus accused jewish religious authorities of having hidden the keys to the kingdom. I don't want to look up the passage now it says something along the lines of that they have hidden the keys and won't enter the kingdom of god, and have prevented those who would enter of entering it by hiding those keys.

The catholics did pretty much the same thing.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:24:08 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-18-2005 12:09 PM                   
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Michelle,

But he doesn't want me so I have given myself to another.

No. You ASSUME that. You can't know his thoughts. Curt could lie to you. Curt could be testing you. You may also just have misinterpreted his communications and assume he doesn't want you.


I think Michelle that you should quit behaving like a victim and get a grip on reality. You screwed up, deal with it, get over it.

And start finding your own answers, don't always rely on others to tell you. You are acting very irresponsibly, thinking you can get away by hearing answers from others. Perhaps this is what Curt didn't like about you? You act like a child? You cheat on him and whine to get him back? How about, why didn't you just stay alone and GIVE CURT THE TIME? Maybe he needed time to be alone? Great job cheating more on him meanwhile.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:24:30 pm
 
Chronos

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Calvin, you may be religious, but you're no gentleman. If the young ladies are having problems, don't you think a better solution would be to treating them with compassion and understanding as opposed to yelling at them? You're old enough to be their fathers, from what I've seen you write. If they were your own daughters, wouldn't you treat them a little differently..?

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:24:49 pm
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Michelle, what's wrong with you? You could have just said that you started "dating" the other guy and left it at that. Most of us would have probably got the intent. Why are you so open about personal stuff, do you want to get reamed out by the religious right element constantly here? Personally, I could care less who either you or Veronica is going with.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:25:04 pm
Stacy Dohm

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Alright, I have been thinking about adding to this thread to help Michelle out, but if I say something, I'll doubtless be labelled a prostitute like Veronica has, so I think I'll just keep my life to myself, too.

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Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:25:21 pm
KMFDM

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Michelle, sweetie, sorry to break it to you, but I think that you have just been "had," literally and figuratively. If the guy really would have cared about you, he probably wouldn't have jumped your bones again so soon. Sounds like just sex, if you ask me.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:25:42 pm
Volitzer

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Veronica:

You should be more careful in this day and age. If he seduced you just think how many others he has been with. Hopefully you're not a carrier to anything. 

Okay I'm going to give everyone here a little insight into the workings of the female/male minds. MEN give love for sex. WOMEN give sex for love. The cause and effects are inverse with each so I hate to say this Veronica but after only an hour you gave sex to a guy who gave just enough love for sex. That's why I went to eHarmony to go beyond this mindset.

Aristotle:

Some of the matches at eHarmony do have photos and others don't. I am amazed at how many attractive women there are out there having who have problems finding a good man.

To the ladies here:

You know how there are like millions of magazines telling women how to look for men. I tend to look beyond that but is there "selling points" of men that women have other than material possessions and wealth. I haven't the foggiest of why some women date ex-cons, users, mafia-types, or are just out-right gold diggers. I get the wealth and resources bit cuz you and your baby want to be well cared for. That makes sense but prisoners and users??? I just don't get it.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:26:10 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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Vlad,

No, I don't know his thoughts, but he won't tell me them either. Vlad, why are you being so mean to me? You started out, ripping on Curt, now you take his side?? How could you, just because you're both guys, you can relate to him more than me?

I can't help it that I'm a woman and I have needs, but they aren't just for sex, they're for companionship, too. And yes, I know I'm screwed up, but he made it clear he didn't want me. I don't know what he does want from me, I don't know where I stand with him or anything. He told me to go with Steve, and so I did. I don't even know if that's what he really wanted, I can't read his mind!

I do behave like a victim, I admit it, and I admit that I did screw up and accept full responsibility.

But none of the men here have helped me any, with the exception of one here, who shall remain nameless. I have made one true friend in this forum and that is all.

I'll admit to not only acting like a child, but feeling like a child. I feel like I have no control over my life, like a child does.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:26:33 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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Anassa, thank you for your nice reply. There were many good things to think about there, and I have been meaning to tell you about them, but yours was so thoughtful, I didn't quite know how to reply at this time, my thoughts have been so jumbled. Thank you for being my friend.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:27:12 pm
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Vlad has a point there, Michelle, you do tend to act like a spoiled child who can't get her way. All your posts seem to be about ME, ME, ME, ME!!!  :)

Hey, maybe Curt really doesn't want to get back with you cause maybe you're smothering him a bit too much..? Just a thought. :)

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:27:37 pm
Volitzer

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Or maybe you ladies need to lighten up on the emotional mind-set a bit and think about what you truly want.

Remember emotions are only temporary and too often too many women try to make judgements with an emotional mindset. This is why women have the soap opera type problems they do.

Michelle and Veronica you 2 are going to have to figure out what you want and think it thru rather than continuing to act on emotional impulse.

I know one thing I want is a woman who is emotionally/rationally balanced.

[ 04-19-2005, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:27:54 pm
 
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-19-2005 12:03 AM                       
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Pagan, why don't you like me..?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:28:17 pm
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I never said I didn't like you, I'm BORED BY YOU, there's a difference. Because you made this forum so much about YOUR PROBLEMS, you drove all the interesting people, who actually had something to say, away, like Absonite and Bluducky, and who knows who else..? You've turned a literate forum...INTO AN ADVICE COLUMN!!!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:28:38 pm
Volitzer

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Pagan:

What kind of music do you write????

I'm a big Joan Jett, Donnas, Rock Goddess fan. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:28:58 pm
Aristotle

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That's not entirely fair. Bluducky left before Michelle even began talking about her problems and Absonite actually tried to help her with them. I, for one, don't mind hearing about them. They're basically confined to a single thread (this one), and I think that we owe Michelle a little compassion. If you don't want to hear them, then don't visit this thread, Pagan, no one is asking you to, and you certainly haven't been any help either.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:29:19 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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That was very sweet of you, Aristotle. I sincerely don't have a lot of people to talk to in my life, which is the only reason why I'm here. You've been a lot of help to me, and thank you for being there.

But if you guys all really want me to, I'll leave..?

There is one friend I made through all this who seems very sincere about wanting to help me. Maybe I shouldn't go to the forum anymore and just go talk to him..? I know he'll be my friend, at least...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:30:15 pm
Calvin Noble

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Veronica Poe,

Words cannot describe my disgust. You have fallen as low as a woman can fall, and there is truly no hope for one as troubled as you. You cannot blame your moral transgressions on your father, you cannot blame them on your ****, the blame lies with you and you alone, Veronica Poe and you truly have made yourself a harlot beyond all redemption. Young lady, you may insist upon leading an immoral lifestyle but it seems you also insist upon parading it here. Your doing so is doubtless what encouraged poor wayward Michelle to also make her own mistakes. I said that your constant flow of immoral words would be the downfall of those who read them and we see now that it was indeed the fact. I take no satisfaction in that, I wojuld much rather see a souls saved instead.

You have lowered yourself to such a level so as to truly be beyond all redemption. Veronica Poe, after all your moral wanderings who will ever take you for awife? Who will want someone like you to be the mother of their children?? Girl, you have drunk from the wellspring of Satan and you are his right now.

To me, your name will always now be synonymous with all the names of other fallen women we see both in and out of the Bible, Delilah, Jezebel, you. Both your words and yourself disgust me to no end.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:30:36 pm
 
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Sure Michelle, that's all you need, ANOTHER GUY IN YOUR LIFE!! The way you're so loyal to your beloved Curt...what willpower!!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:31:02 pm
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I write all kinds of music, Volitzer, sing, too. I'll play you some sometime.

Hey, Calvin's here, too, Michelle! Bet you'll be happy to see him! :)

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:31:24 pm
Aristotle

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Well, do what you wish, Michelle, but I'll at least be here to listen when you wish, most of the time, anyway.

Ah, Calvin's here, how dull...

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:31:47 pm
Calvin Noble

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Michelle,

Well, Michelle, of you I am truly disappointed. I asked you to give God another chance, it was more important to give yourself to your immoral urges instead. This man does not want you. No man wants anything that comes to him too cheaply, no man respects something that he can have without earning it. He is there with you to use your beauty to satisfy his sinful desires and that is all. There will be no possibility of marriage for you, there will be no friendship, no understanding like a husband and wife do, you have made yourself a **** to satisfy needs, both his and your own, and that is ALL YOU WILL BE TO EACH OTHER!! If bad things become of this, the blame lies not with this man, or with your former man, it will lie with you.

I asked you to seek help from your local clergy to stem off your quandary, you brushed aside the suggestion, chose to give yourself to sin instead. It was more important to you to follow Veronica's cheap example.

Of her, a harlot at heart, I expected no more.

Of you, I couldn't be more disappointed if you were my own daughter.

Your deeds are truly despicable, and you have now made yourself a woman of low moral character.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:32:10 pm
Volitzer

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Pagan:

Are you in a band???

Are you a singer or play an instrument?

At some point I want to use the Donnas song "Get Me High" for an aerodynamic invention I'm working on in a commercial. Cuz I know they'll be good about letting people use their songs with the right royalties. 

I have a thing for brunnette musicians and guitarists, they are just so cool. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:32:29 pm
Volitzer

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Michelle:

Seriously think of what you want first.  Otherwise disappointment is all you're in for. :(
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:33:12 pm
Calvin Noble

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Veronica Poe, you are the lowest of the low.[/b]You and this whole despicable clan of hedonists, hippies and harlots. Words cannot describe my disgust for your lifestyle, also doubtless led by your immoral friend, Dawn and the whole sick clan she has brought with her to this forum that includes Baphomet, Aristotle, and doutless countless others. I am sickened and disgusted by the lot of you!!!

[ 04-19-2005, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Calvin Noble ]

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:33:37 pm
Calvin Noble

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Veronica Poe, you are the lowest of the low.You and this whole despicable clan of hedonists, hippies and harlots. Words cannot describe my disgust for your lifestyle, also doubtless led by your immoral friend, Dawn and the whole sick clan she has brought with her to this forum that includes Baphomet, Aristotle, and doutless countless others. I am sickened and disgusted by the lot of you!!!

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 23, 2008, 01:34:10 pm
Aristotle

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Lighten up, Calvin.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:08:24 pm
 
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I sing, play guitar and play piano, Volitzer. And I play everything from metal, to folk to industrial. You're out of luck if you have at thing for me, though, I'm a lesbian!!! 

Hey, try Michelle, she's brunnette, too, and always up for a few good guys. Seems, the more the merrier, you ask her...!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:09:01 pm
Jade Hellene

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You despicable little peon. Do you really think that this girl, or either of them, owes you an explanation for what they have done in their lives?? You are nothing, not fit to pass judgment on anyone, not fit to tell anyone who is going to Hell and who has saved themselves. You are another in a long line of religious fanatic monsters, afraid of women's sexuality and you want to control what you can't understand.

Sickened by them, what woman would read your angry drivel and not be sickened by you?

Let's hear some details of your own life and see if you always live up to your own lofty standards.

If Michelle or Veronica have a fault, it was that they were too open about themselves in the midst of sexist bigots who don't understand. Each is free to conduct their own lives in their own way.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:10:25 pm
porthos

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yeah..Aristotle's right...lighten up before you have a stroke...or give someone else here one...either way back it off a few notches...

breathe deep...GOOD AIR IN...BAD AIR OUT...That's a good boy..

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life is for the here and now...live it to the fullest...

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:10:46 pm
Volitzer

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Oh I see!!!! 

Okay, it was just that Joan Jett was saying that the music industry doesn't encourage women with guitars and take on a more pro-Britanney or Pro-Jessica type stance. 

If you rock that's great, I just wanted to encourage you to keep it up cuz from what Joan was saying is that the music biz is one of hard knocks.

I guess the way technology is now you can burn a CD and put it on the internet if someone provides a site for you. I think CD would do $0.99 downloads if you have a CD cut.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:11:04 pm
Volitzer

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Well if you don't mind me saying you're quite attractive for a lesbian. 

Living in New York I've seen my share. I'd have never guessed. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:11:36 pm
 
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I rock BIG-TIME, VOLITZER! I started out as a Jewel, but I ended up a Wendy O. WIlliams from the Plasmatics (if you heard of them).

Hey, where did Michelle go? Something we said, sweetie..?

Probably off to go cry in the arms of Curt or Steve, or the new guy, whichever one it is tonight.

Oh, well, gee, isn't this forum fun??

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:11:59 pm
johnee

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  posted 04-19-2005 02:13 AM                       
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WOW

WOW

WOW

 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:12:50 pm
bluducky

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What a sad state of affairs I see before me.

Some poor ladies open their hearts to you all, pleading for HELP, and you stab hot daggers inside, one after another...

Veronica

I would be more than happy to bring you food, to laugh with you, and wipe away your tears when you cry. God knows you need someone who can love you for YOU, without thought for something physical. I would be more than happy to treat you like a HUMAN BEING, and help you in any way that I can.

Calvin, if your idea of parenting is to SHUN those who cannot help themselves, instead of BEING there for them as a good father would, then you'd best pray to God that you don't meet me, because I have a nice big belt waiting for your backside. Where is your COMPASSION?!

With YOU, Calvin, I am deeply disappointed...


veronica

YOU are a wonderful person, who, like many, has become a slave to something that seems bigger than yourself. I do NOT blame you for this, it could happen to ANYONE. No one has lived your life, therefore no one knows how truly hard it is for you. If you will allow us, there are some here who would like to be there for you.

I will be here for you, if you wish...

I hope you never leave. You are ALWAYS welcome...


Aristotle

You have been good to those who ail here -- compassionate and sympathetic, truly benevolent. Athiest or not, If God is one to award good deeds, then I predict that you have something really special waiting just for you...


I would like to remind you ALL that it takes but ONE good deed to turn a life around.

Who are you to judge?


Michelle is a wonderful person, let there be no mistake about that.

How do I know? Because I am the new man in her life.

Again, do not judge, especially what you do not know...

Read it again:


quote:
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There is one friend I made through all this who seems very sincere about wanting to help me. Maybe I shouldn't go to the forum anymore and just go talk to him..? I know he'll be my friend, at least...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was nothing awry with that statement, taken within context.

Of course I will be your friend, Michelle, and I hope others can also follow suit. Who hasn't made mistakes?

----


I will be here publicly for the next two days. Until then, I am at your disposal...

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:13:15 pm
 
Vlad
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  posted 04-19-2005 02:43 AM                   
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Pagan has **** envy.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:13:55 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-19-2005 02:56 AM                   
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Let's blame the Catholics.

On page 6 I ended one of my posts with a quote from a teacher


quote:
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"But that teaches you knowingness. It teaches you to understand your knowingness. Because, you know before it happens, you're just ignoring it. And, then I teach them how to . . like how I get by in deep and understand everything that goes on and how to see without your eyes."
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There's more.

"Tomorrow I'd like to talk a little bit about how you figured this out when you were young and your memories of being an essene and all that.

"The deal about it is, how I figured it out is I remembered it."

"That's right. But like get some . . ."

"Many, many years ago, before the Catholics got involved, because the Catholics is the ones that put us down. They made manna, where they could. Other places used wood ash to make it. You can take wood ashes, burned at low temperatures and boil them in water and filter them through cloth so that you've got a clean solution and you can titrate it an get your manna out of the wood ashes."

"I'll be darned."

"And everybody used to have a little leather pouch on the belt."

"But anyway, everybody took manna--a little bit every day. The idea was, you never get sick when you take it. It raises your immune system--five to six times normal. They didn't have any doctors back then. You got sick, you died. So everybody took it so they wouldn't get sick. And then the Catholic Church came and they started to talking about if God wanted you healed He'd heal you. They got rid of a whole bunch of people and they also killed all the midwives. They burned them at the stake for witches. If a woman had a baby that didn't come out right, they killed the midwife."

"So they got to the point nobody could get help."
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:14:32 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-19-2005 03:20 AM                   
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Today.

We have Huxley's medicine.

"Well I think the people who would benefit most of all are professors. And this... err... I think it would be extremely good for almost anybody with fixed ideas, with a great certainty about what's what to take this thing and to realize that the world he's constructed is by no means The Only World..."
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:14:59 pm
porthos

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Welcome back bluducky...sure missed your posts around here :)

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life is for the here and now...live it to the fullest...

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:15:33 pm
Anteros

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   posted 04-19-2005 12:37 PM                       
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Wow... leave the forum for the weekend and two and a half pages are added to this thread. Anyway...

Calvin Noble said:


quote:
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you clearly have knowledge of the Bible, and yet you don't ever use it to instruct others, but let them, confused chidren like Michelle, simply go about their own way, wandering through the abyss. Don't you feel the responsiblity to help others, or are you, like so many others here, simply concerned of what they might think of you?
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1. Of course you know I never use it to instruct others because you're omniscient and can see into people's lives. For your information I am a Sunday school teacher and have also spent a few Sundays behind the pulpit. However, I do not come to Atlantis Rising to pontificate but rather to learn. For you to do so makes me think that you're not for real and that this is all one big sham.

2. You say you've read my posts and if this is so than you would know by now that what others here think of me is not my concern.
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quote:
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Good that you have expressed your true feelings about me, for I have always gotten the feeling that you are one of those who accept the teachings of the New Testament over the Old.
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That's why it's called the OLD testament. The sacrifice and message of the Messiah exploded at a finite moment in time and extended into the infinite future and the infinite past. It erased everything that came before and everything that was yet to come. It's all over, Calvin Noble. Leave it alone.


quote:
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but I would think carefully before linking Veronica too closely with your friend. Veronica is not your friend...And if you have developed some affinity for Veronica, and are a Christian as you say, I would urge you to tell her (in your own way), to repent her sins, again, something I have yet to see you do.
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Have you not read what I wrote? The reason why her story touched me so deeply was because it runs parallel to that of my friend, except that my friend chose to keep her children.

I spend a large amount of my free time with this girl and all I have to do is listen and then offer encouragement. She frequently seeks out my approval for certain things and when I remain silent on the issue at hand she knows that I do not approve. I do not rant, rave, scream or yell at her that she's perverted and going to hell for eternity! When her moods change, which is often, I put up with her rants and raves silently and wait for her to return to cry and apologize. As a result of this compassionate and christian treatment, she calls me her exanple of faith and strenght. She is slowly beginning to see the light and is doing much better now than when I met her two years ago, when she was suicidal. I can't take all the credit for that but I know by her words and her actions that she needs me in her life and if I were to leave she would be terribly hurt. I can only pray that Veronica finds someone that she can trust to nurture her feelings of self-worth. You're obviously not up to the job.

Your way doesn't work, Calvin Noble. Can't you see that? Take a look at the posts here. You have only succeeded in alienating almost everyone with the exception of Norman whatisname... and this is how you would win people for Christ? This is another thing that makes me believe you're not for real. Can you really be that illogical? Can anyone really be this insensitive and self-centered? Can a so-called Christian be so lacking in compassion for his fellow human being?

[ 04-19-2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Anteros ]

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"A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of Powers we cannot perceive."

Rush --> "Freewill"

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:16:00 pm
Anassa

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"Can you really be that illogical? Can anyone really be this insensitive and self-centered? Can a so-called Christian be so lacking in compassion for his fellow human being?"

Anteros I think you hit the nail on the head...behind that Bush avatar lurks none other than GW himself :)

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:16:33 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-19-2005 06:30 PM                       
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no

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”


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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:16:59 pm
Pagan

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   posted 04-19-2005 08:35 PM                       
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quote:
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Pagan has **** envy.
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Damn right! I want one.

That way Michelle might be interested in me and I could bone her like everybody else.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:17:17 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 04-19-2005 08:36 PM                       
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Bluducky, are you sure you want to be the other man in Michelle's life? She is one of those ultra needy girl vampires you know, all ready to suck the life right out of you. Prepare for a lot of crying and baby-sitting ahead.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:17:38 pm
 
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-19-2005 08:48 PM                       
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Anteros, for your information, I also teach Sunday School, have been an ordained minister and have devoted most of my life to personal religious study. I am a God-fearing man. I will have no one question my credentials. But I am hardly the issue here, you are the issue here. Your complete dismissal of the Old Testament in such a fashion speaks volumes to me about where your priorities lie. You cannot lead others down the path of righteousness by setting a passive example. In order to get the proper understanding of the Almighty, we must both love and fear Him. Preach only the love and wayward souls such as Veronica often forget to fear. I ask again, what have you done to lead those here down the moral path?? Yes, Christ would have us forgive sin, but do you truly think he actually encouraged mankind to sin?? And so, I ask again, Anteros, what have you done to improve the souls of your fellow men and women here?? Did you instruct them like a good Christian should, or did you sit idly by, afraid that they might not like you if you "preached" too much?? Where are your priorities, Anteros, are they with yourself or are they with THE LORD?

I am sickened by the values of this forum where promiscuous women are granted more of a hearing than a righteous man who follows the teachings of God. But make no mistake, every criticsm I receive, every blow that I take, only inspires me to stand that much more steadfast and strong against all the evil I see festering here. Let Satan send his whole army of immoral characters, false prophets, harlots, degenerates and sexual deviants. I promise I shall always be ready to fend off their evil attacks. I shall smite them like David smited Goliath, and I shall do so in the name of the Lord.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:18:03 pm
Calvin Noble

Member
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Rate Member   posted 04-19-2005 08:50 PM                       
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Bluducky, we must lead the immoral, we must not mislead them. If you have truly made Michelle your friend, I ask, what counsel have you given her? Did you tell her to consult her local clergy? Did you tell her to read her Bible?? Did you give her any moral guidance towards the road of abstinence? Or, like your friend Anteros, did you simply keep such knowledge to yourself, perhaps afraid of what others might think of you, and so let a soul be lost?

And regarding Veronica Poe, this harlot has so cheapened herself with men that I would say that she has now become a servant of Satan. Best leave her be, lest you somehow be tainted yourself.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:18:26 pm
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 04-19-2005 09:08 PM                       
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Veronica & Michelle:

I have read your posts yet again this day. I will continue to read them until I see that some sign of God lingers within you, for so far I see none. Michelle, you are a fallen woman and I am truly disappointed with you. As I have said to you often enough, unless you honor yourself first, expect no man to honor you. You have sold your womanly gifts too cheaply, and, far as I can see, only more sin lies ahead for you.

Veronica Poe, you are truly beyond all redemption. I asked you a question last night that I note, you have yet to answer. You have so handed yourself over to the devil, body and soul, what man would ever want you for a wife? It is clear that God has kept you childless for a reason, for you are not fit to be a mother, let alone a wife.

I remember the attitude you have treated me with in my time at the forum. Had I known about your immoral lifestyle then to the extent I do now, I would have treated you with the complete and utter contempt with which you deserve. You are a woman of no moral character, and you will burn for your sinful passions in Hell. I do not judge you, you have judged yourself and consigned yourself to these depths.

I am as sickened and disgusted by all of you as I was yesterday, and I cannot believe that some of you refuse to take a good look at yourselves. Rather than look at the message, you blame the messenger. Heathens like this need discipline in order to be sent back down the right road again, they don't need to be coddled, as some of you might do.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:18:49 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-19-2005 09:20 PM                       
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Pagan, you just don't want me to have any friends here, or for anyone to like me.

But that's okay, cause I have Bluducky, and he is all I need. Let me tell you about Bluducky, cause there's some things I think that you should all know about him. He is one of the nicest, sweetest, gentlest men I have ever met, and he has helped me a lot, just by being there. He reminds me of Curt, back when we first met. He came to me when he really wanted to be alone, because he was that concerned for me, unlike others. He understands that women have different needs than men do and he doesn't judge me for that, just tries to help. He doesn't make me feel dirty for what I've done, like you do, Calvin. And he takes me seriously, too, what more could a woman want?

I may never know his real name, may never meet him in real life, but he is the new man in my life, and he is every bit a man, too. In my opinion, being a man means being someone who's reliable, kind, and kind to women. He has been one of the few to help me through one of the most difficult times of my life, and for that, I will be eternally grateful. I may not have a man I can count on in my real life right now, but I do have him. and, for now, that might be enough.

I wasn't going to tell anybody we were emailing because I thought he wanted to keep it a secret, but since he told you himself, and accepted me before you, while most of you were getting tired of me, I had to tell you, just how wonderful he is...

I may not be at the forum so much from now on because he's personally helping me work this all through. That will spare you hearing all my sordid details. Not to mention, I can't take many of your insults, and I won't deny it, some of you have hurt me very much. I'll be with my guardian angel, Bluducky, who I know will always be watching over me...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:19:16 pm
Volitzer

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I don't think Veronica is coming back to this forum. :(

[ 04-19-2005, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6835 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:19:37 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 04-19-2005 09:58 PM                       
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Wow, it sounds like Michelle wants to be nailed by you, Bluducky! Guess you're next.

Michelle will be back, Volitzer, I know her kind.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:20:03 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 04-19-2005 10:42 PM                       
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Well, it looks like you have made an admirer, Bluducky, good for you. I'm glad. :)

[ 04-19-2005, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Dawn Moline ]

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:20:39 pm
bluducky

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   posted 04-20-2005 12:44 AM                       
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I'm sure we all have our admirers :)

Pagan,

I am fully aware of what 'kind' of person you think Michelle is (A deceitful leech), but, in this case, you are wrong.

All she wants is a little help to fix her problem. I offered what I could, and have given her some much needed direction for her life, and for it, have received her 'eternal gratitude'.

It isn't hard to just reach out, and LISTEN, and offer practical solutions. That is what I have done.

Was it wrong to help, Pagan? and if not, then why do you make such bold and innacurate assumptions?


Calvin N


quote:
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Bluducky, we must lead the immoral, we must not mislead them. If you have truly made Michelle your friend, I ask, what counsel have you given her? Did you tell her to consult her local clergy? Did you tell her to read her Bible?? Did you give her any moral guidance towards the road of abstinence?
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I have led her in the right direction Calvin, you need not worry. I don't think there will be any more man troubles for a little while 

Do me a little favour Calvin. No more talk of judgment or damnation until I am finished with her, okay? Let us see the fruits of my intervention first, without being hindered.
Think of her as your own daughter, and let her get the help she needs... (be thankful she is SEEKING help.)

And also let Veronica seek help. Did you not realize that she has layed open her life so that we can see, and HELP?

What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery? was it not, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?" and what did he say to other women of 'low morals'? They repented, and he said "Go, and sin no more". He condemed NOBODY who sought help.

Is it not just to let these women first be given a chance at repentance? only with HELP can they come to a decision to accept your faith. Therefore, do not criticize, nor condemn, but LEAD gently, and forgive, as your very example Himself had done.

We will not have this discussion again...

Funny.. this post was solely to correct JUDGMENT. Please don't make me waste my time again.

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:21:11 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 04-20-2005 05:12 AM                       
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bluduckey your girl just walked off and you are consoling another? mmm:)Clavin made be all hell and damation, however I admire him and his wife`s moral values. He is right, much of that is lost nowdays.
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Posts: 8109 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000 
 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:21:30 pm
 
bluducky

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   posted 04-20-2005 05:41 AM                       
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Hmm.. well, I guess I'm a selfless person...

My own problems shouldn't affect my ability to deal with others' problems as they are unrelated, and therefore should not even be brought into consideration when dealing with others.
(I won't burden them with my own problems, nor will I let myself be biased. It takes a weak mind to allow personal feelings to interfere when helping others, a weak and GREEDY mind)

(it is like being angry with somebody, and the phone rings, and you pick up the phone, and in your nicest voice say "hello?"... you are nice because you know the person on the phone has done nothing wrong to you, so, you are NICE to them. A person ought to be nice to EVERYONE, even during the low times.)


I too admire Calvin's morality, but... I know someone who is even MORE moral than him.

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:21:59 pm
Anteros

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   posted 04-20-2005 09:07 AM                       
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One last time, Calvin Noble, and then I will add you to the very short list of members who's posts I just skip, for it's obvious that you never address the issue presented to you but just go off on a tangent each time.

In keeping with the topic of this thread, it's obvious that you are the antithesis to everything the Bible has to say about Love, so just three things for you:

1. "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

2. "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."


3. "If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen."

(All verses from 1 JOHN 4 in the NIV)

You spew nothing but hatred and contempt and are a tool of Darkness. You are either a very confused individual.. or a complete fake.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:22:36 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 11:06 AM                       
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Anteros I really don't want to hurt anyones feelings if I am wrong, but I think Calvin Noble is faking.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
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Posts: 10155 | Registered: Feb 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:22:58 pm
 
Anteros

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Member # 1984

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   posted 04-20-2005 01:21 PM                       
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quote:
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Anteros I really don't want to hurt anyones feelings if I am wrong, but I think Calvin Noble is faking.
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I'm beginning to think more and more the same. No one can be that much of a comic book character and take himself so seriously. It sounds like someone who's either very lonely or someone who's researching a novel.
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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 2
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:23:29 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

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   posted 04-20-2005 06:45 PM                       
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That's no way to talk about the President!

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☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:23:47 pm
Calvin Noble

Member
Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-20-2005 06:51 PM                       
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Ishtar, how dare you question my faith. I wonder if people like you ever believe in anything at all. You have taken the name of a pagan goddess, your postings all seem to be the result of a rambling, disjointed mind and your only words to me (and even about me) seem only meant to cast doubt on what I have to say. I have tried to be easy on you because I felt some sympathy upon hearing your personal story, however, who are you to cast doubt on mine or anyone else's faith? As I see it, the person we should be one of the most suspicious of is you. I could elaborate on this, as you know, but I will spare you the humiliation.

Anteros, about you I am grievously disappointed. I had seen some of your past posts on religion and thought we might have something in common. However, subsequent posts have shown me that you give credence only to the New Testament, that you place little or no value on leadership in moral issues, and that you will always remain a passive observer to the moral wanderings that occur here on a daily basis. Yes, the way is love, but your way is to not even set an example for others, while mine is to lead with a firm hand. I ask you this one more time: what if there are children reading these forums? What if they stumble upon posts as lurid as Veronica's or Michelle's without also hearing from a moral voice to explain things? Your way would be to be silent, and thus, give tacit approval for all they had to say, while mine would be to take them to task for what they have done and explain to them that it was wrong.

I asked you to explain to Veronica, in your own way, how you would have handled her problem and I note that is something you have yet to do. People like yourself, who say they know the rules of God, yet keep them to themselves, serve no good purpose, and yet they claim to serve the Lord.

No, we shall not be friends, and I would appreciate it if you actually would follow up on your pledge so that we have no more to do with one another. This whole encounter with you has been a great disappointment. The devil is best served when good men stand idly by, see evil happening and yet do nothing. You are walking proof of that, and I grow tired of your pompous attitude towards what you claim to be your religion. If you care about your fellow man, you want what is best for your fellow man, and you actively work to make that happen. You don't sit by like sheep and hope that they might come to you. Good day to you, good luck with your affairs, and goodbye!

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:24:02 pm
Calvin Noble

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Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-20-2005 06:52 PM                       
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Bluducky, I am heartened by your words to me. If you truly are instructing Michelle in the strong Christian values that we both share, I pledge to cease all criticisms towards her, till such time that she does something else (and I hear of it), and they be needed again. To Veronica, I extend a similar offer. Veronica, prove to me that you are getting some help for your problems, and I pledge to deal with you with a gentler (but firm) hand. The choice is up to you, Veronica Poe.

Bluducky, I realize the spiritual care of another human being can be quite draining and you are truly to be commended for taking Michelle under your care. it might interest you to know that, in my private life, many people people also come to me for spiritual guidance and I do my best to assist them in anyway that I can. I have found that the young especially are in need of a firm master. Help her, but let us all not be deceived by the sinner.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:24:46 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 06:54 PM                   
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The road to hell is paved with good intentions...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 24, 2008, 01:25:09 pm
Pagan

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Get thee behind me, Satan..!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:23:04 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 06:57 PM                   
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Sure :)

Now bend over and take it like a ****!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:23:22 pm
 
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Bluducky, actually, I wouldn't use the words, "deceitful leech," to describe Michelle. Actually, the words "whiney tramp," are more fitting. Her cries for help may be sincere, but an Internet forum was the wrong place to do it, the only thing she seems to have wanted (and got) was attention. I've seen her type before: desperate, clinging, puts all her hopes and dreams on one man who's not ready to settle down, then wonders why she gets dumped afterwards!! I'm not even sure whether her cheating on him was the excuse she got dumped, or whether it was just a convenient excuse because Curt was sick of being smothered by her!

And she does have a crush on you, we chicks can tell. Heck, anyone can tell that just by the way she talks about you. Don't get too swelled a head about it, though, she probably would have developed the same feelings for any guy that she thought really wanted to help her. Best of luck, too, with Miss Little Ex-Prom Queen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:23:47 pm
Pagan

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OOOOO, you're so BADDDDDD!!!

Don't you know that George Bush/God is watching right now?

Don't forget the kids!!!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:24:05 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:02 PM                   
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Mmm kids...

Oops let it slip.
Gonna have to hide behind the christians now so none finds out. Join their club.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:24:26 pm
 
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Bluducky, thank you for your kind words to me. Calvin's presence has served one good purpose here, at least. I believe that it has made several of us take a closer look at our own behavior and see if the things we loathe in him can also be found in ourselves. Best of luck in helping Michelle with her problems.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:24:44 pm
 
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quote:
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Gonna have to hide behind the christians now so none finds out. Join their club.
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Damn right! Just don't make them bend over, there's laws against that with kids, at least!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:25:12 pm
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You know, I have been a silent observer to all this in the last two weeks, nothing to offer, nothing to contribute, and yet I have READ EVERYTHING. I truly cannot see the problem that some of you have with Veronica. It is her life, she should do what makes her happy, and if hedonistic pleasure makes her happy, who are we to say differently? It is clear that it no longer makes her happy, mainly because, as I see it, others have mainly made her feel guilty about it. Veronica is a woman who, in her real life, often gets what she wants, so I wouldn't feel too badly for her.

Let us all facts facts here. Perhaps there is no God at all. That being the case, shouldn't any of us, and all of us, try to seize whatever happiness we can in this world, wherever we may find it? And why should anyone of us make the other feel bad about it?

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:25:30 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:18 PM                   
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No way, they don't have women there, only men.

Damn that actually reminded me of some sick guy who was arrested earlier this month here in Belgium over sex with dogs and actually thinking it was normal, putting it on his website and all.

Come over Calvin! Show him the right way!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:25:48 pm
 
Baphomet

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And as for Michelle, I hate to demean her problems, but they seem of a slightly adolescent nature. Michelle, once you gain more experience as a woman, as Veronica has, once you realize that your sexuality is a thing to make you happy, not despair about, this won't seem so confusing to you. In fact, you might look back on this whole time and laugh.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:26:09 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:20 PM                   
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Baphomet... the name alone...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:26:30 pm
Baphomet

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quote:
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Bluducky, I am heartened by your words to me. If you truly are instructing Michelle in the strong Christian values that we both share, I pledge to cease all criticisms towards her, till such time that she does something else (and I hear of it), and they be needed again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calvin, I hate to break this to you, but Bluducky is hardly a traditional Christian, like you think he is. Like many of us, he sorts through the material of the Bible, filters out the garbage and accepts the rest.

Then again, you're not a traditional Christian yourself are you? You seem to filter out all the "love they neighbor" passages of the Bible, and accept the fire and brimstone parts, the ones that suit your purposes.  Whereas most filter out the bad and accept the good, you filter out the good and accept the bad.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:26:56 pm
 
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:23 PM                   
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What would be funny if is someone tricked Calvin Noble into eating spacecake :) Just to see what he would come up with when high.

(And no, I haven't had any.)
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:27:15 pm
Pagan

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The name alone is pretty cool..! Means something "pagan," nice pic, too!!!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:27:44 pm
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Damn that actually reminded me of some sick guy who was arrested earlier this month here in Belgium over sex with dogs and actually thinking it was normal, putting it on his website and all.
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Sex with dogs? Stick to having sex with women, I do!! :)

Hey, where's Michelle..?

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:28:21 pm
 
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:27 PM                   
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Getting a rubber for the ducky...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:28:49 pm
Calvin Noble

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Pagan & Vlad, please watch your "mouths," children could be reading these forums, even as we speak.

Baphomet:

No, I give ALL the teachings of the lord an equal measure of respect, I don't tend to choose ones that would ever deem to give others the permission to lead an immoral lifestyle.


quote:
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I truly cannot see the problem that some of you have with Veronica.

Let us all facts facts here. Perhaps there is no God at all. That being the case, shouldn't any of us, and all of us, try to seize whatever happiness we can in this world, wherever we may find it?
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I would have expected you to say that. Your message, Baphomet: to bring others the least amount of hope as possible, to get them to question their beliefs in God, so that you can lead them towards your own immoral lifestyle. Your friend Dawn's message is the same, even though she tries to hide it better than you do. I have no doubt that some of you actually know one another in person, for you seem to act as one. All servants of Satan, all with the same goal: to lessen the faith of others and drive them towards your own master. Others may believe your intentions are simply to pose questions (to which the answers are almost always already in the Bible), but I have seen through you all from the beginning.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:29:47 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:41 PM                   
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Pagan & Vlad, please watch your "mouths," children could be reading these forums, even as we speak.

Yes Pagan, just swallow :) don't ask questions
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:30:10 pm
Baphomet

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Calvin, what YOUR religion fails to take into account is that there may, in fact, be no God, that the only basic values we have concerning good behavior and morality are the ones we make for ourselves on this world, and that humanity might well be answering to no one but itself. If that is the case, then all the years of humans striving for an example that they cannot possibly achieve would be for naught. Witness poor little Michelle, for instance. Her problems are clearly only of a sexual nature. She feels guilty for cheating on someone, mourns the loss of what she once had. What this doesn't take into account, though, is that our bodies were made for sexual intercourse with one another. It doesn't matter whether she has one lover or ten, that's up to her, the meaning is that she was made to do this. It is a part of her female nature. It is only ridiculous, overly self-righteous moralists like yourself that make her feel guilty about it.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:31:00 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:43 PM                   
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I have no doubt that some of you actually know one another in person, for you seem to act as one

Know each other to become one, like in "And Eve KNEW Adam and bore him ..." who was first, Seth?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:31:37 pm
Pagan

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I'll swallow, but I have to warn you, I also spit it out!!

Good point, Baphomet!

Evil is clearly winning the war of good against evil, then again,

Who's good?

Who's evil??

Nobody knows!

And the wheel keeps spinning and round and round she goes..!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:32:00 pm
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Calvin, please don't send me to Hell, I understand you have a personal pipeline with God..!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:32:31 pm
Aristotle

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Calvin, as you know, I am an atheist myself, for I look around me and can see no evidence that there is a living God watching over this world. Baphomet raises an excellent point when he says that all the rules of religion might all be for naught. Mankind could well have been jumping through hoops for all of these last three thousand years, trying to live up to an impossible example, all to please a God that might well not even exist.

Oddly, the best reason I can think of for one not to strive for an immoral life would be something that Docyabut said: fear of STD's.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:33:06 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:53 PM                   
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Actually, good and evil are relative yet not.
Here's a really simple analysis method for it.

Feelings and actions that are promoting unity are one pole.
Feelings and actions that are promoting division are the other pole.

"Love is perfect bond of unity"

"By their deeds you shall know them, not their words"
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 25, 2008, 01:33:37 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 07:58 PM                   
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Actually, there is and is not a god.
The first step is the realization of the impersonal aspect of 'god', and the brilliance of creation, the brahma-jyoti as it is called in sanskrit.
You could consider it the absolute transcendental zero point state where all polarities of good and evil are resolved into absolute balanced and oneness.

The second one is going back down, into multiplicity, and is (imo) the stage of bhakti, servitude, the one where you go from the absolute oneness back into the world.

So you go from the world, to all oneness, all self, all only, back down into many.

And in many, you have hierarchies which are by implication of the concept of manyness, necesary. So you have and have no god. Depends on the stage you are in. In this manifest world, where we/I have a seperate ego, there is a god and others have seperate egos, yet if you go all up, you sort of get 'absorbed' into the 'oversoul', and become one with it.

It's a polar principle, one and many.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:21:15 pm
 
Calvin Noble

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Aristotle: another bleak messenger to the hopeless. How much faith would a child have upon hearing your words?

I cannot help the feeling that yourself, Baphomet, Veronica and Dawn, perhaps also these new people, Vlad and Pagan as well, are all part of some strange cult that has come here to undermine, each in their own way, the teachings of the lord, for, in your own way, you each work as one. Each of you has a similar message and you rarely miss a chance to deliver it. I believe that Dawn is not as innocent as she pretends to be, and that she is most likely the leader of your little group. I believe that each of you are hedonists to the core, and that you all want to somehow undermine the traditional morals of America.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:21:33 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 08:04 PM                   
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Yep, we're all dancing naked in the moonlight and making love in the woods. Around monoliths of course.

It's some wicked Pagan ritual.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:22:00 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:04 PM                       
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[ 04-20-2005, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:22:22 pm
 
Baphomet

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I have nothing against God, Calvin, unlike Aristotle, I actually believe there is one. I am just not crazy about the way he runs things. :)

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:22:56 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 08:09 PM                   
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And if it makes you feel any better Calvin:

I've had at least two 'young' girls (18 and 20 something) tell me 'my name fits me' when I barely knew them (1 hour for one of them!) and that I radiate fieryness like a vampire.

Guess what? One of them is a christian and is now pissed of at me because I told her how christ is the head and corner stone, a designation for a stone which only fits ON THE TOP OF A PYRAMID.

You know that stone? The one with the eye in it?
Symbol of the 'Illuminati'

"If thine eye be single, thy body be full of Light."
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:23:14 pm
Calvin Noble

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You are entitled to your opinion, Ishtar, (since erased) just as I am entitled to mine, that you are making your wild accusations to get others to hate me.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:23:41 pm
 
Calvin Noble

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I have been attacked by all sides tonight by people who would be my enemy, but I stand here unbowed, because I think nothing of any of you.
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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:24:07 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:19 PM                       
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Calvin I don't hate you at all .........and I thought it was better to erase what I said because I don't want to fight .

I am sorry.

Calvin I don't want anyone to hate you.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:24:35 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:23 PM                       
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The reason I post with the name Ishtar, is because i was reading the Sumerian text when I joined a few years ago.

And it is quite obvious I am the dumbest one on the message board.

I really just want to share ideas , I don't want to hurt anyone.
especially you Calvin.

[ 04-20-2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:25:35 pm
Pagan

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Calvin, if it's any consolation...the rest of us hate you!! I'll bet if we took a poll, the forum member that everybody would hate the most would be you!! That's got to count for something, doesn't it..? :)

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:26:07 pm
KMFDM

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quote:
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it might interest you to know that, in my private life, many people people also come to me for spiritual guidance and I do my best to assist them in anyway that I can.
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Calvin: no offense, but I sure wouldn't come to you if I needed help. You'd probably be the last person I wouild turn to.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:26:32 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:32 PM                       
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There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:27:27 pm
Vlad
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  posted 04-20-2005 08:38 PM                   
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This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

How true.

So.

Yesterday night, entering awake meditation, clearing my mind, staring at the darkness, I started to notice a reddish dot. I focused on it and it become more a reddish golden, like a sunlight brilliant dark red. I then had the impression I shifted through it, as if it was a tunnel.
Then I saw it. I was overlooking, what appeared to be a city. It was awesome. The first thing I noticed was there were pyramids. One of them was very distinct as it was blue, like made out of some blue stone.
The sky was also remarkable. There was no sunlight, no daylight, it was like a perpetual storm, like moving dark grey blue black clouds, with a bit of white but yet the city was not in darkness but illuminated like on a dark stormy day.

Ah and there was more. I have a feeling I know what this place is.
Once again it appeared a lot more real than this world.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:27:53 pm
Norman Pounders

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Calvin, as usual I agree with everything you have to say. It's a shame that some of the people who come to this forum are more interested in attacking you than in the issues of morals and family values. One wonders how far their own moral compasses stray.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:28:15 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:49 PM                       
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Vlad ,yes there is a place more real then here.

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:28:42 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 08:52 PM                       
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Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and my laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart
can be left open,
the door of compassion.

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:29:01 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-20-2005 08:56 PM                       
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Ishtar

Don't be so hard on yourself, for whatever its worth I think you are very bright!

Rod Steiger was awesome

So who has an answer, what is the origins of Love?

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:29:21 pm
 
Ishtar

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  posted 04-20-2005 09:10 PM                       
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thank you, unknown, I am very insecure.

WE need love to survive.

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Posts: 10921 | Registered: Feb 2002 
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:29:45 pm
Author  Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future 
Nemesis1

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   posted 04-20-2005 09:17 PM                       
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Women are the origin of love.

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"Behold I am become death, the destroyer of worlds"

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 29, 2008, 01:30:17 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-20-2005 09:32 PM                       
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Good answer Nemesis

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:09:30 pm
Dorian Gray
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   posted 04-20-2005 09:57 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Calvin Noble:
I have been attacked by all sides tonight by people who would be my enemy, but I stand here unbowed, because I think nothing of any of you.
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What a Christian way of thinking.

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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:09:51 pm
Dorian Gray
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   posted 04-20-2005 09:58 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Norman Pounders:
Calvin, as usual I agree with everything you have to say. It's a shame that some of the people who come to this forum are more interested in attacking you than in the issues of morals and family values. One wonders how far their own moral compasses stray.
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So sayeth the shepherd, so sayeth the flocking idiot. Your sycophancy knows no bounds.

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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:10:22 pm
Norman Pounders

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I take it you're a liberal, Dorian..?

I note that liberals can't seem to make a point without usage of insults and foul language. A pity most of you have such a limited intellect. How unfortunate.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:10:54 pm
Veronica Poe

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  posted 04-20-2005 10:44 PM                       
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Bluducky:

Thank you for all your kind words and offer to help. I look at you as a true friend, one of the few I've made here. However, it sounds like you already have your hands full with Michelle and your own problems, so I won't be burdening you with mine. Mine are a full time job and you wouldn't like hearing of them, believe me.

Volitzer:

No, I'm not a carrier of anything, at least to my knowledge. I've never gotten an STD, and I've been checked on a regular basis.

Calvin, well, what can I say after all those understanding words and such a overflowing wellspring of sympathy. You call yourself a Christian. I guess we'll finally meet one another in Hell, right..?
:)
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:11:17 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-21-2005 01:04 AM                       
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The ancient greeks saw love as the first active primordial force, in there cosmology.

I imagine if one looked at love with a scientific eye it could be seen as a very effective survival mechanism.

examples:

Allowing for the care and nuturing of the young.

Promoting social unity, allowing them to band together more effectively for common goals, such as hunting, gathering and defense.

It would have been selected for in nature because of these advantages.

It could also be said that it gave rise to culture and religion for instance mourning for the dead gave rise to burrying the dead, and thus ceremonies of rembrance even hopes of seeing them again, thus religion wha la culture.

I think this scientific type of expalination would be an over simplification of it though,

love is an intergral part of our very essence our true spiritual natures.

"we are not earthly beings having a spirtual experience but spiritual beings having a Earthly experience"


http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node30.html#SECTION02231000000000000000

Mythology
A simplified version of the Greek creation myth follows.

In the beginning there was only chaos. Then out of the void appeared Night and Erebus, the unknowable place where death dwells. All else was empty, silent, endless, darkness. Then somehow Love (Eros) was born bringing a start of order. From Love came Light and Day. Once there was Light and Day, Gaea, the earth appeared.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:11:45 pm
 
Ishtar

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  posted 04-21-2005 07:33 AM                       
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thank you , unknown , that is pretty much what I had in mind.

Love and the tribe, a survival instinct, feed the hungry, care for the sick , procreate, yada yada. Love and Compassion

I wondered about hate, of course that would be a survival instinct too. Hate , fear, tribal warfare.

http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/env_facts/rainf_tribes.html

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:12:05 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-21-2005 07:41 AM                       
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So I was thinking can love for the tribe be so strong that one fights and makes war for love?

Happens all the time doesn't it?

long ago the old choctaw nation carried the bones of their dead with them

the great mothers and great fathers, they became their gods in a way, why? because that is where the love and protection was,we hang on to what nurtured us when we were small, when we felt safe, through the generations they became larger then life.

When I think of my mother and father and grandparents I feel they are still with me , my memories keep them alive, it brings me comfort, when I pray to God the father or mother, it is the child in search of the love of the parent, seeking comfort, when no one else will listen and you are alone with your pain they are always there.

Think of this message board as a tribe what do you see?

[ 04-21-2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

--------------------
“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:12:32 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-21-2005 05:08 PM                       
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Hi Ishtar

Thats interesting about the Choctaws never heard that before.

Of course ancestor worship is one of the oldest forms of religion, and is even today a large part of the belief system of the chinese.

Many people would argue that ancestor worship is the origin of gods.

A good example of this would be say hercules who was first a heroe and then later became worshipped as a God.

The farther from the point of his actually life you get the more he is revered. Say he was actually a participant in the Trojan war, by the time of classical greece he is revered as a God.

The Trojan war also is a good example of war being fought for love.

Ishtar
"Think of this message board as a tribe?"

Interesting, if it is compared to atribe I would say it is a very loose organization of families, with competing belief systems and with no strong central authority or belief.

I'd say its a tribe in need of Shaman.

As it relates to love I don't know, I haven't been here that long, but I did see a forum for "whatever happened to our former members" or something like that so that shows affection, mourning. Also their was a forum that was a beautiful tribute for one of the forum members that had passed away.

What do you see Ishtar?

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:12:57 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-21-2005 06:37 PM                       
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Predating all other methods was the burning of the dead in a pyre an then feeding the ashes into the ground at the "family tree" where the essence of the dead would transfer through the roots on up to the leaves and then on up to mix with the essence of the cosmos.

I often wondered if the earliest methods of burial were merely to save the bodies for transport home to the original family ground. There was certainly a lot of focus of the dead travelling....

Perhaps the Choctaw kept them with them with the plan of returning them to a "motherland".

You are absolutely right about the ancestors becoming "gods"....There were no gods until the Ice-time started and the populations of the 10 kingdoms were separated from the Alfather and Ilmater....The information system was broken and finallt the memory of the ancestors became "gods", and the place of the "gods", Uden-ma became "Eden".

RE: "The Trojan war also is a good example of war being fought for love."

The Trojan War was pure politics...
from the HOMER IN THE BALTIC thread:

"Paraphrasing from HOMER IN THE BALTIC:
Agamemnon of the house of Atreus....Brother in law of Menelaeas. One interesting point discussed in HOMER IN THE BALTIC is the question of why, really, would the whole world go to war over the theft of a woman? Homer repeatedly insists that this is the sole reason for the war.
The fact that Menelaeas, the injured party, is really a relatively minor character in in the story, seems to reveal that this is a true history.

Anyway, Helen and Clytemnestra are sisters, the daughters of powerful Tyndareus. The abduction of Helen could have been a private matter, or could it have jeopardized Menelaus' claim to the throne of Sparta, which had been vested in him as a result of his marriage to Helen, causing a "constitutional crisis" in his (or rather HER) kingdom. This is the real reason for the war: the Achaean kings intended to regain the beautiful queen, not for her beauty, but because she was a queen, in order to restore to Menelaus his rights to the throne of Sparta(and, above all, to preclude a dangerous precedent). In particular, it is clear why Agamemnon, Menelaus' brother invested so much in the success of the expedition: he had become king of Mycenae thanks to his marriage to Tyndareus' eldest daughter. What they have the loss of is "geras", also possessed by Ulysses by virtue of his marriage to Penelope. "Geras" is status, privilege, and royal honors of sovereignty, and the right of bequeathing that sovereignty to ones descendants. This is what Paris stole along with the body of Helen. This is a huge public offence against a king, and a death blow to the status of his succeeding generations."

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:13:19 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-21-2005 06:52 PM                       
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Rockessence

Perhaps the Choctaw kept them with them with the plan of returning them to a "motherland".

Very interesting thought,

The idea that the Trogan war was politically motivated can't really be argued against, but that it was a war for love is how it has come down to us.

Think about it from the prospective of the Trojans for a minute, they had little to gain politically as the union of Paris and Helen was illegitimate, and they knew full well that to except them into the city was inviting war.

So why did Priam allow this...
perhaps for love of his son.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:13:40 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-21-2005 07:10 PM                       
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How does a father prevent the act of a rash prince far away from his long arm? When the act is done, and the problem lands on your doorstep, with armies in hot pursuit, what forms the father's decisions. No going back.

Also, not true that there was nothing to gain politically. The same "geras" would have fallen to Paris and their offspring. Hence the loss to Menelaeas.

Another aspect is that of the "Horse" which does not exist in Homer but only in later poetical offerings.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:14:10 pm
unknown

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   posted 04-21-2005 07:41 PM                       
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Not to beat a dead horse, but what he gained was the loss of his empire.

I doubt the pursuit was all that hot, the kings would all have to have been brought from across the empire and would have had to hold a war council, then the navies of greek empire would have had to assembled an launched.

Priam cold have turned the couple away but didn't.

Really my point was that it was an historic example of war because of love, and as you yourself have stated thats the way Homer tells it.

Who am I to Disagree with Homer?

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:14:32 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-21-2005 08:45 PM                       
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RE: "not true that there was nothing to gain politically. The same "geras" would have fallen to Paris and their offspring." We are talking in hindsight whereas, before the assembled forces arrived, they could not know the outcome.

BUT, has Homer, the old dear, ever been interpreted correctly...seriously?!

Please do read the thread HOMER IN THE BALTIC, for tremendous insight there, by Dr. Felice Vinci.

His book is coming out soon:

http://www.innertraditions.com/isbn/1-59477-052-2

[ 04-21-2005, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:14:51 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 04-21-2005 09:40 PM                       
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Rockessence, Homer was blind, so how in the heck did he know which part of the world he was even talking about??

Hmm, I notice that Michelle hasn't been around here lately, and actually, I'm surprised, I'm starting to miss her.

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:15:08 pm
 
Pagan

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   posted 04-21-2005 09:41 PM                       
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How's your love life, Michelle, care to tell THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT IT AGAIN??

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:15:40 pm
Dorian Gray
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   posted 04-22-2005 12:15 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Norman Pounders:
I take it you're a liberal, Dorian..?

I note that liberals can't seem to make a point without usage of insults and foul language. A pity most of you have such a limited intellect. How unfortunate.
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Saying I have a limited intellect is an insult. You didn't make a point without an insult. Are you a liberal?

Guess what? Your avatar has been known to drop an insulting F-bomb on occasion. Is he a liberal?

Actually, I am being facetious. I know you are a conservative because of your gratuitous use of overgeneralized unsubstantiated claims.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:16:03 pm
 
rockessence

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   posted 04-22-2005 02:17 AM                       
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Pagan/Rose,

Homer received the stories from the tale-tellers of the day, like everyone else. These were traditional tales of the heroes and their treatment by the Fates and the "Gods", left from previous old cultures of the Mediterranean. Not from historians, or from cartographers. But minutely and carefully rendered in it's descriptions, nevertheless. That's why the errors in the configurations of landscape are so mystifying.

"Here, therefore, is the "secret" which is hidden inside Homer's poems and is responsible for all the oddities of Homeric geography: the Trojan War and the other events Greek mythology handed down were not set in the Mediterranean, but in the Baltic area, i.e. the primitive home of the blond, «long-haired» Achaeans (the Odyssey claims that Ulysses was fair-haired; XIII, 399; XIII, 431). On this subject, the distinguished Swedish scholar, Professor Martin P. Nilsson, in his works reports considerable archaeological evidence uncovered in the Mycenaean sites in Greece, corroborating their northern origin. Some examples are: the existence of a large quantity of baltic amber in the most ancient Mycenaean tombs in Greece (which is not to be ascribed to trade, because the amber is very scarce in the coeval Minoan tombs in Crete as well as in later graves on the continent); the typically Northern features of their architecture (the Mycenaean megaron is identical to the hall of the ancient Scandinavian Kings); the similarity of two stone slabs found in a tomb in Dendra with the menhirs known from the Bronze Age of Central Europe; the Northern-type skulls found in the necropolis of Kalkani, etc.. Moreover, Aegean art and Scandinavian remains dating back to the Bronze Age present a remarkable affinity -for example, the figures engraved on Kivik's tomb in Sweden- so much so that a 19th century scholar suggested the monument was built by the Phoenicians."

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000927

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:16:24 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-22-2005 09:43 PM                       
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quote:
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How's your love life, Michelle, care to tell THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT IT AGAIN??
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Pagan, this quote is actually a little unfair towards Michelle. If you look at the "transcript," Michelle never set about telling anything about her life to the "world," I actually just managed to maneuver the truth out of her. I'm sure Michelle originally intended to keep her whole story a private affair. I'm sure Bluducky is providing her some good help.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:16:48 pm
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 04-22-2005 10:54 PM                       
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Veronica:

I'm glad you've been lucky so far but all it takes in just one mishap and your done.

Being in New York State I've seen so many relationship disasters, from STDs, bitter divorces, bitter custody battles, kids caught in the middle, the alimony horror stories and the hard times with social services.  At times dysfunctioanlity and degeneracy has sent up so many red flags that I've actually lost count. 

Also at times women with a repuatation get branded and then no man thinks anything more of her htan just a one night stand. At times you are undermining the intimacy you seek. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:17:09 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 04-23-2005 08:35 PM                       
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Sorry guys, but no one knows for sure if Homer1s story of Troy was real, since the greeks love to write plays, just as we do today.Homer`s story story could be related to punishment as in this story of the (Horse and the Maiden)

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~edmunds/HorseText.html
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:17:29 pm
 
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 04-23-2005 08:49 PM                       
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If she acts like an untamed horse, then she will be punished by a horse.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:17:54 pm
docyabut
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And if you think Paris` Father would risk a whole war over his son taking someone`s elses wife is really not likely. :) 
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Posts: 7938 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:18:17 pm
rockessence

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DOC,

The whole point is: that it was not just "a wife", but rather A QUEENDOM...the ownership of which lay with the breathing body of the Queen of Sparta.....The value of which was NOT HER BEAUTY, BUT HER THRONE, WHICH DID NOT BELONG TO MENELAEAS!!

"Anyway, Helen and Clytemnestra are sisters, the daughters of powerful Tyndareus. The abduction of Helen could have been a private matter, or could it have jeopardized Menelaus' claim to the throne of Sparta, which had been vested in him as a result of his marriage to Helen, causing a "constitutional crisis" in his (or rather HER) kingdom. This is the real reason for the war: the Achaean kings intended to regain the beautiful queen, not for her beauty, but because she was a queen, in order to restore to Menelaus his rights to the throne of Sparta(and, above all, to preclude a dangerous precedent). In particular, it is clear why Agamemnon, Menelaus' brother invested so much in the success of the expedition: he had become king of Mycenae thanks to his marriage to Tyndareus' eldest daughter. What they have the loss of is "geras", also possessed by Ulysses by virtue of his marriage to Penelope. "Geras" is status, privilege, and royal honors of sovereignty, and the right of bequeathing that sovereignty to ones descendants....This is what Paris stole along with the body of Helen. This is a huge public offence against a king, and a death blow to the status of his succeeding generations."

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:18:41 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-23-2005 11:23 PM                       
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quote:
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Sorry guys, but no one knows for sure if Homer1s story of Troy was real, since the greeks love to write plays, just as we do today.Homer`s story story could be related to punishment as in this story of the (Horse and the Maiden)
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Docyabut raises a good point in talking about Troy. Schliemann found a city in the general area spoken of by Homer, but there has yet to be any actual evidence that a war was ever fought there.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:19:44 pm
Andrew Waters

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  posted 04-24-2005 01:01 AM                       
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Pagan, this quote is actually a little unfair towards Michelle. If you look at the "transcript," Michelle never set about telling anything about her life to the "world," I actually just managed to maneuver the truth out of her. I'm sure Michelle originally intended to keep her whole story a private affair. I'm sure Bluducky is providing her some good help.

So you're thinking Michelle didn't want to be ''found out''? That's a pretty hefty pat on the back you're giving yourself Aristotle.

And you are certain she wanted to keep her story private? Just like Veronica may have?

You're right, I fell victim to this gigantic ruse myself but have recovered just in the nick of time to ask all of you here: Do you really think any of this prattle rates the time you have given it.

Hasn't anyone here by now seen the predictable story-line?

Look at Michelle, mid twenties, ''seemingly'' crying out to therapists of all persuasions, even the internet kind; Veronica offers herself as an uncontrollabe loosenik without a clue as to what help is. She certainly doesn't want it from anyone here. She doesn't need any of you. She and Michelle may very well be off collaborating on a book of some kind which seems to be the more plausible explanation for this never-ending farcical tale of human drama.

Speaking of Michelle, haven't any of you detected the almost child-like retorts of ''Why are you so mean to me'' or ''What have I done to you to make you feel this way'' or something to that effect.

Didn't any of you care to really notice how she puts her story together; an almost seamless and sequential turn of events?

How about Veronica! Another well-thought out story-line.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:21:38 pm
 
rockessence

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   posted 04-24-2005 01:08 AM                       
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Ari,

Schleimann's discovery of a fortification which eventually led to the recent discoveries, has been named Troy, but there are many problems with that assumption:

"Ever since ancient times, Homeric geography has given rise to problems and uncertainty. The conformity of towns, countries and islands, which the poet often describes with a wealth of detail, with traditional Mediterranean places is usually only partial or even nonexistent. We find various cases in Strabo (the Greek geographer and historian, 63 B. C. - 23 A.D.), who, for example, does not understand why the island of Pharos, situated right in front of the port of Alexandria, in the Odyssey inexplicably appears to lie a day's sail from Egypt. There is also the question of the location of Ithaca, which, according to very precise indications found in the Odyssey, is the westernmost in an archipelago which includes three main islands, Dulic h i u m, Same and Zacynthus. This does not correspond to the geographic reality of the Greek Ithaca in the Ionian Sea, located north of Zacynthus, east of Cephallenia and south of Leucas. And then, what of the Peloponnese, described in both poems as a plain?

In other words, Homeric geography refers to a context with a toponymy with which we are familiar, but which, if compared with the actual physical layout of the Greek world, reveals glaring anomalies, which are hard to explain, if only on account of their consistency throughout the two poems. For example, the "strange" Peloponnese appears to be a plain not sporadically but regularly, and Dulic h i um, the "Long Island" (in Greek "dolichos" means "long") located by Ithaca, is repeatedly mentioned not only in the Odyssey but also in the Iliad, but was never discovered in the Mediterranean. Thus we are confronted with a world which appears actually closed and inaccessible, apart from some occasional convergences, although the names are familiar (this, however, tends to be more misleading than otherwise in solving the problem)."

88888888888888888888888

"Let us look for the region of Troy now. In the Iliad it is located along the Hellespont Sea, which is systematically described as being «wide» or even «boundless». We can, therefore, exclude the fact that it refers to the Strait of the Dardanelles, where the city found by Schliemann lies. The identification of this city with Homer's Troy still raises strong doubts: we only have to think of Finley's criticism in the World of Odysseus. It is also remarkable that Schliemann's site corresponds to the location of the Greek-Roman Troy; however, Strabo categorically denies that the latter is identifiable with the Homeric city (Geography 13, 1, 27). On the other hand, the Danish Medieval historian Saxo Grammaticus, in his Gesta Danorum, often mentions a population known as «Hellespontians» and a region called Hellespont, which, strangely enough, seems to be located in the east of the Baltic Sea. Could it be Homer's Hellespont? We can identify it with the Gulf of Finland, which is the geographic counterpart of the Dardanelles (as both of them lie northeast of their respective basins). Since Troy, as we can infer from a passage in the Iliad (XXI, 334-335), lay North-East of the sea (further reason to dispute Schliemann's location), then it seems reasonable, for the purpose of this research, to look at a region of southern Finland, where the Gulf of Finland joins the Baltic Sea. In this area, west of Helsinki, we find a number of name-places which astonishingly resemble those mentioned in the Iliad and, in particular, those given to the allies of the Trojans: Askainen (Ascanius), Karjaa (Caria), Nästi (Nastes, the chief of the Carians), Lyökki (Lycia), Tenala (Tenedos), Kiila (Cilla), Raisio (Rhesus), Kiikoinen (the Ciconians) etc. There is also a Padva, which reminds us of Italian Padua, which was founded, according to tradition, by the Trojan Antenor and lies in Venetia (the «Eneti» or «Veneti» were allies of the Trojans). What is more, the place-names Tanttala and Sipilä (the mythical King Tantalus, famous for his torment, was buried on Mount Sipylus) indicate that this matter is not only limited to Homeric geography, but seems to extend to the whole world of Greek mythology."

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000927

[ 04-24-2005, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:22:05 pm
Andrew Waters

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  posted 04-24-2005 01:55 AM                       
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Those two seem to be unusually good story-tellers.

Now I would be remiss in saying that given the human drama that plays itself on the world stage day-in and day-out, the above stories undoubtedly happen at any given time, but, suddenly, Michelle goes from the Maya civilization or one like it, even expanding on it, to personal problems and an almost psycho-destructive turn in personality!

Bluducky, what is it you think you can offer Michelle that other members haven't already and that she may be willing to accept from you? I say this simply because I've seen the entire range of ''help'' material offered here and it seems to me help in whatever form isn't going to be enough.

I suppose I should apologize to the two ladies and Bluducky for my attitude but I can't give any of you that, not after the countless, and after reading just about ten pages of this convoluted trail of despair, pointless twists and turns with no answer in sight. By design perhaps.

Finally, let me quickly point out to you newcomers here that a few short years ago, (maybe two), there surfaced on AtlantisRising a very similar story of heartache, betrayal, intrigue and desperation on the part of another lady.

Her story wandered around the thread for many, many days with the AR members giving her full support until just as quickly as she had come, she disappeared. Gone. To my knowledge there was no coming back and telling all the AR members thank you for your support. To be sure, during the so-called help sessions she in fact did thank everyone for their support but there was no follow-up once she left. None that I recall. There may have been but I can't remember any of it.

I can't shake this attitude. I'm sorry readers.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:22:25 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-24-2005 03:07 AM                       
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quote:
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You're right, I fell victim to this gigantic ruse myself but have recovered just in the nick of time to ask all of you here: Do you really think any of this prattle rates the time you have given it.
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Well, that's an interesting way to look at things, Andrew, however, I don't feel that, in this case, it is correct, especially with Michelle. Like you, I tend to have a skeptical nature, but I also live in a university setting and have for many years. I see Michelle's story, or something similar to it, nearly all the time. It's not all that rare to me, nor is the way she reacts towards it.

I like Michelle, I feel she's been honest, and if I felt that she hadn't been, I wouldn't have tried to help. Having said that, if you expect her to return and give you regular updates on how she's doing, I doubt that will happen. I get the feeling she feels embarrassed, and the way she was treated here hasn't helped much. Bluducky or someone else might learn of the ending (if there ever is one), but I doubt she'll trust anyone else here with it, myself included.

As for Veronica, well, she's been posting here for at least six months. It might surprise you to know that nearly all her posts are of a sexual nature. She also happens to be a very good writer. She may not want to ask us for help, but I get the feeling that, deep down, she rather likes her life the way it is, and wouldn't change anything. It's actually pretty easy for a woman to lead that sort of life if she wants to, a lot of men are out there, trying to get laid. Veronica probably will return, more likely out of habit out of anything else. Then again, maybe she won't either, one of her last posts said something about just leaving the forum altogether one day...

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:23:15 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-24-2005 03:09 AM                       
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Rockessence,

Is there a specific place in the Baltic as an alternative for Schliemann's Troy? And, if so, have they uncovered anymore evidence of a war fought there as opposed to in the Dardanelles?

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:23:38 pm
Anassa

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   posted 04-24-2005 06:06 AM                       
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I think Andrew and Aristotle, you are both correct in your assessment of the Michelle/Veronica situation. I feel both girls are genuine and needed help. With the exception of a small minority here, everyone offered some good and sound advice.
But some people, and they really can't help themselves, draw more from the support than the actual advice, maybe because they have suddenly lost a previous source of that energy/attention.
Giving of your own time and energy to others is a always a good thing but but they must also be willing to help themselves by finding their own inner strength.
To keep on 'feeding' someone's need for support/attention indefinitely is not necessarily doing them any favours either. You may be preventing their necessary development towards self-reliance.
It's kinda like flogging a dead horse. At some point you realise that you are only exhausting yourself while they just go on endlessley sapping your energy.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:24:31 pm
rockessence

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   posted 04-24-2005 10:11 AM                       
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Ari,

Absolutely! Here is some info from the thread HOMER IN THE BALTIC in this forum :

"What about Troy? Right in the middle of this area, halfway between Helsinki and Turku, we discover that King Priam's city has survived the Achaean sack and fire. Its characteristics correspond exactly to those Homer handed down to us: the hilly area which dominates the valley with its two rivers, the plain which slopes down towards the coast, and the highlands in the background. It has even maintained its own name almost unchanged throughout all this time. Today, Toija is a peaceful Finnish village, unaware of its glorious and tragic past.

Various trips to these places, from July 11 1992 onwards, have confirmed the extraordinary correspondence between the Iliad's descriptions and the area surrounding Toija. What is more, there we come across many significant traces of the Bronze Age. Incredibly, towards the sea we find a place called Aijala, which recalls the "beach" («aigialos»), where, according to Homer, the Achaeans beached their ships (Il., XIV, 34). The correspondence extends to the neighbouring areas. For example, along the Swedish coast facing Southern Finland, 70 km north of Stockholm, the long and relatively narrow Bay of Norrtälje recalls Homeric Aulis, whence the Achaean fleet set sail for Troy. Nowadays, ferries leave here for Finland, following the same ancient course. They pass the island of Lemland, whose name reminds us of ancient Lemnos, where the Achaeans stopped and abandoned the hero Philoctetes. Nearby is Åland, the largest island of the homonymous archipelago, which probably coincides with Samothrace, the mythical site of the metalworking mysteries. The adjacent Gulf of Bothnia is easily identifiable with Homer's Thracian Sea, and the ancient Thrace, which the poet places to the North-West of Troy on the opposite side of the sea, probably lay along the northern Swedish coast and its hinterland (it is remarkable that the Younger Edda identifies the home of the god Thor with Thrace). Further south, outside the Gulf of Finland, the island of Hiiumaa, situated opposite the Esthonian coast, corresponds exactly to Homer's Chios, which, according to the Odyssey, lay on the return course of the Achaean fleet after the war.

In short, apart from the morphological features of this area, the geographic position of the Finnish Troas fits Homer's directions like a glove. Actually, this explains why a «thick fog» often fell on those fighting on the Trojan plain, and Ulysses's sea is never as bright as that of the Greek islands, but always «dark-wine» and «misty». As we travel through Homer's world, we experience the harsh weather which is typical of the Northern world. Everywhere in the two poems the weather, with its fog, wind, rain, cold temperatures and snow (which falls on the plains and even out to sea), has little in common with the Mediterranean climate; moreover, sun and warm temperatures are hardly ever mentioned.
There are countless examples of this; for instance, when Ulysses recalls an episode of the Trojan War:

«The night was bad, after the north wind dropped,
and freezing; then the snow began to fall like icy frost
and ice congealed on our shields» (Od., XIV, 475-477).

In a word, most of the time the weather is unsettled, so much so that a bronze-clad fighting warrior invokes a cloudless sky during the battle (Il., XVII, 643-646). We are worlds away from the torrid Anatolian lowlands. The way in which Homer's characters are dressed is in perfect keeping with this kind of climate. In the sailing season they wear tunics and heavy cloaks which they never remove, not even during banquets. This attire corresponds exactly to the remains of clothing found in Bronze Age Danish graves, down to such details as the metal brooch which pinned the cloak at the shoulder (Od., XIX, 226). Moreover, this fits in perfectly with what Tacitus states on Germanic clothing:

«The suit for everyone is a cape with a buckle»
(«sagum fibula consertum»; Germania, 17, 1).

This northern collocation also explains the huge anomaly of the great battle which takes up the central books of the Iliad. The battle continues for two days (Il., XI, 86; XVI, 777) and one night (Il., XVI, 567). The fact that the darkness does not put a stop to the fighting is incomprehensible in the Mediterranean world, but it becomes clear in the Baltic setting. What allows Patroclus's fresh troops to carry on fighting through to the following day, without a break, is the faint night light, which is typical of high latitudes during the summer solstice. This interpretation -corroborated by the overflowing of the Scamander during the following battle (in the northern regions this occurs in May or June owing to the thaw)- allows us to reconstruct the stages of the whole battle in a coherent manner, dispelling the present-day perplexities and strained interpretations. Furthermore, we even manage to pick out from a passage in the Iliad (VII, 433) the Greek word used to denominate the faintly-lit nights typical of the regions located near the Arctic Circle: the «amphilyke nyx» is a real "linguistic fossil" which, thanks to the Homeric epos, has survived the migration of the Achaeans to Southern Europe.

It is also important to note that the Trojan walls, as described by Homer, appear as a sort of rustic fence made of wood and stone, similar to the archaic Northern wooden enclosures (such as the Kremlin Walls up to the 15th century) much more than the mighty strongholds of the Aegean civilizations.

Troy, therefore, was not deserted after the Achaeans plundered and burnt it down, but was rebuilt, as the Iliad states:

«At this point Zeus has come to hate Priam's stock,
so Aeneas's power will rule the Trojans now
and then his children's children and those who will come later on» (Il., XX, 306-308).

On the contrary, Virgil's quite tendentious, and much more recent, tale of Aeneas's flight by sea from the burning city of Troy (a homage paid to the emperor Augustus's family, considered Aeneas's descendant) is absolutely unrelated to the real destiny of the Trojan hero and his city after the war. As regards this "Finnish" Aeneas, the first king of the dynasty that, according with Homer, ruled Troy after the war (that is a kingdom which, under Priam, dominated a vast area in southern Finland; Il., XXIV, 544-546) it should be very tempting to suppose a relationship between his name and «Aeningia», Finland's name in Roman times (Pliny, Natural History, IV, 96).

It is remarkable that farmers often come across Bronze and Stone Age relics in the fields surrounding Toija. This is proof of human settlements in this territory many thousands of years ago. Further, in the area surrounding Salo (only 20 km from Toija), archaeologists have found splendid specimens of swords and spear points that date back to the Bronze Age and are now on display in the National Museum of Helsinki. These findings come from burial places, which include tumuli made of large mounds of stones that can be found at the top of certain hills, which rise from the plain today, but which, thousands of years ago, when the coastline was not as far back as it is nowadays, faced directly onto the sea. This relates to a passage in the Iliad, where Hector challenges an Achaean hero to a duel, undertaking, in case of victory, to give back the corpse of his opponent

«so that the long-haired Achaeans can bury him
and erect a mound for him on the broad Hellespont,
and some day one of the men to come,
sailing with a multioared ship on the wine-dark sea, will say:
"This is the mound of a man slain in ancient times,
he excelled but renowned Hector killed him"»
(Il., VII, 85-90; the description of Achilles' tomb in the last canto of the Odyssey is analogous).

These Homeric mounds «on the broad Hellespont» and the Bronze Age ones near Salo are remarkably similar.

Let us now examine the so-called Catalogue of Ships from Book II of the Iliad, that lists the twenty-nine Achaean fleets which took part in the Trojan War, together with the names of their captains and places of origin. This list unwinds in an anticlockwise direction, starting from Central Sweden, travelling along the Baltic coasts and finishing in Finland. If we combine this with the data contained in the two poems and in the rest of Greek mythology, we may completely reconstruct the Achaean world around the Baltic Sea, where, as archaeology confirms, the Bronze Age was flourishing in the 2nd millennium B. C., favoured by a warmer climate than today's."

88888888888888888888888

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000927

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:25:09 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-24-2005 10:15 AM                       
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Anassa I agree with you on the support/energy, thing,I have friends like that, it is sorta a two way street they needed me and in a strange way I felt I needed to be needed, finally I stopped offering the advice because it became draining," the same advice I might add," The same never ending dramas, they are not stupid they knew the answers.

I respect you opinion Anassa, but even I wondered about some of Veronica's post, I mean the details, read like a novel in her post of,

04-16-2005 10:40 PM,

did we really need all those details?

I really bared my soul to the board. It hit hard reading what I wrote, I didn't realize seeing my life written down like that would have effected me so negatively. I was surprised at my emotions.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:25:43 pm
Andrew Waters

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  posted 04-24-2005 10:23 AM                       
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Points and comments digested Aristotle and Anassa. Just had to vent that's all. Peace.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:26:08 pm
Anassa

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   posted 04-24-2005 11:54 AM                       
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At some point with a couple of posts I did think there was little more information than I needed to know but I thought that maybe Veronica in particular was just winding up Calvin Noble :)

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:26:39 pm
 
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 04-24-2005 11:24 PM                       
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Michelle:

Well, everything I've told everyone is true, but it really doesn't matter at this point whether anyone believes me or not. Reading all this, it occurred to me that the most important thing someone said is that I never thanked everyone who tried to help, and so I'll do that now.

Aristotle & Absonite,

It was so nice of you to be there that first night I started discussing all this. I wanted to take your advice, Aristotle, but I'm afraid I
never could just move on. I still can't, I will if I have to, eventually, of course. Absonite, I hope my talking about my problems hasn't driven you away. I'll admit that the forum was the wrong place to discuss my problems.

Ishtar,

Thank you so much for your advice, you're one of the few here that I felt generally understands. I felt so bad for your story, I hope that for every bad time you had, there was also a good time, too, to make up for it.

Anassa,

Well, what can I say? Other than Bluducky, you had the best advice. I wish I could have taken more of it, but I'm not wise, I think with my heart, and it's always led me in the wrong direction.

Rockessence, thank you, too, for listening. And you, too, Docyabut. And thank you to everyone else who tried to help but who I may have been thoughtless and left off.

Calvin,

I really wish I could thank you, but I'm not certain that you ever had my best interests at heart. I was really hurt by some of the things
that you said to me, and I'm sure you said them to be intentionally cruel. Pagan, well, I don't understand your animosity towards me, but I would have liked to have been your friend.

I realize it has been draining for some of you to hear my problems, and so, I'm going to try and keep the things I do write here a little less personal. I will say that Curt and I have decided to try and be friends at this point. It's not all I want, of course, but then, it's a start and I'm not ashamed to admit I will take whatever he gives to me. He's the only man I will ever love, and I will always love him with all my heart.

Bluducky, I don't know what I have ever done in my life to deserve someone so special as you to care for me, but you have been a godsend. Thank you for being such a true friend. If there were more people like you in the world, well, the world would be a much nicer place.

Anyway, everyone, keep a good thought for me, while I do for each of you..?

Michelle
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:26:57 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-25-2005 12:23 AM                       
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Thank you for the update, Michelle, and it's good to hear from you. I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I like to think you're among friends here, so feel free to return anytime you like. Glad things are going a little better with Curt.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:27:22 pm
Anassa

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   posted 04-25-2005 02:03 AM                       
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Michelle
It's ok if you felt unable to follow all the advice you were given here.
Next to actually following it, the most important thing is that you have it. One day it may make more sense in a real way than it does now.
The bottom line is you just need to believe more in yourself.
Glad to hear you and Curt have decided to be friends. That's great :)

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2005


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:27:52 pm
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 04-25-2005 05:54 AM                       
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Michelle,so you are back with the guy you cheated with on Curt, the man you said you loved. And just how long do you think that will last, when the man your with now knows your a cheater ? I `m afraid your in for some real future heartbreak, if you go on telling every man you meet your behavior.Life is`nt like in the movies where everybody sleeps with everybody, and real love comes out it all.I never liked when all this open sexuality came out in the 60`s.Most people before that did the best to hide and regret their mistakes.Moves and media shows now protray cheating as fad.Back in the 60`s when rateings had to be applied to movies and media shows, critics predicted we`d breed a voilent and unmoral society well guess what? its been bred.
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:28:17 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 04-25-2005 06:26 AM                       
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To me before the sexual revolution womem had better standards, then after let down their standards of behavior that spewed out all over and in entertainment, men had more respect for women. Now women have only become equal to what was wrong in men in the frist place. :) Now only 20% of marriages worked out today.
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:28:50 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 04-25-2005 08:09 AM                       
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HI Michelle, yes there is much more good then bad in my life, like that old song says "always look on the sunny side of life."

and it seems to be some of the most insignificantly small things that make me ecstatically happy, like finding a four leaf clover.

A old friend once told me ,"you can judge the wellness of your soul by how many songs you have in you heart."

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Posts: 10767 | Registered: Feb 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:29:15 pm
 
Ishtar

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  posted 04-25-2005 08:12 AM                       
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At some point with a couple of posts I did think there was little more information than I needed to know but I thought that maybe Veronica in particular was just winding up Calvin Noble
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me too anassa me too, sorry veronica if I am wrong,

might as well always apologize ahead of time ..lol

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Posts: 10767 | Registered: Feb 2002
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:29:46 pm
Pagan

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   posted 04-25-2005 08:03 PM                       
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Michelle, what do you mean you wish we were friends? I thought we were friends!!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:30:21 pm
Veronica Poe

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Member # 2172

  posted 04-25-2005 08:16 PM                       
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In terms of whether I have exaggerated or deliberately misled anyone here, well, no. That is my life, laid bare, and, if anything, it's even worse than I told you. Be thankful, I suppose, that I've begun to spare you all the latest graphic details. I'll admit that one post in particular was a bit more graphic than it needed to be, yet, nonetheless, it did happen, just as I said it did. The reason why I haven't been posting lately is because I got the feeling that those details were getting a little offensive to some of you. While I could care less if I offend Calvin, I have no interest in offending any of the rest of you, who seem to be genuinely good people that might simply just not understand my lifestyle. I suppose I'm also a bit embarrassed by what I have written, although I have no interest in deleting or altering any of it.

I don't need to do anything extra to get Calvin mad at me, I don't think that any woman here needs to do that. He's just naturally mad at me all the time because he happens to be an irredeemable sexist who hates women. Like I said, just like my father, a man who, apparently, hates women just for the simple fact that we happen to be women. Since he'll never understand any of us, the best he can do to is try to make us feel guilty about our own sexuality. I find that loathsome, and I can only imagine what it is like for the women in his personal life.

Volitzer, thanks so much for your concern over my state of health (and continuing to harp on the idea that I might have an STD, very reassuring). I assure you once again that I'm clean. If I lived in New York, I might have a problem, but since I'm in the Midwest, most here aren't as sexually experienced. There's always a risk, of course, but for the most part the men I go with aren't as experienced as in your state, hence, not as risky - one hopes, anyway...

Aristotle, it might interest you to know that I no longer intend to leave the forum. There are several learned people here that are a pleasure to converse with and I am not going to let one or two narrow minded ones chase me away. Sorry Calvin (and your new boyfriend Norman), I'm afraid you'll still have to put up with me.

The abortion debate going on in the other topic really makes me feel a bit conflicted and guilty. Normally, I'm all for women's rights, but, unlike some of the women that come here, I've actually had an abortion, and I really don't believe that it solves anything. I think I would have been better off it I were to have a little daughter to love me right now, rather than the freedom to stay sexually promiscuous. Regarding children: I'm not all that certain I can even conceive anymore, there have been many chances with unprotected sex and I've never gotten pregnant again. I suppose I hold the abortion responsible. Do it if you must, girls, but get a good doctor and think before you do it, don't end up like me.

Peace & Love,

Veronica
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:30:43 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 04-25-2005 08:45 PM                       
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I don't need to do anything extra to get Calvin mad at me, I don't think that any woman here needs to do that. He's just naturally mad at me all the time because he happens to be an irredeemable sexist who hates women. Like I said, just like my father, a man who, apparently, hates women just for the simple fact that we happen to be women. Since he'll never understand any of us, the best he can do to is try to make us feel guilty about our own sexuality. I find that loathsome, and I can only imagine what it is like for the women in his personal life.

Veronica
I feel you are wrong. What these mem express is caring, more then the men you sleep with that just used you for sex from the very beginning.

Volitzer, thanks so much for your concern over my state of health (and continuing to harp on the idea that I might have an STD, very reassuring). I assure you once again that I'm clean. If I lived in New York, I might have a problem, but since I'm in the Midwest, most here aren't as sexually experienced. There's always a risk, of course, but for the most part the men I go with aren't as experienced as in your state, hence, not as risky - one hopes, anyway.

Don`t kid your self have you ever read the satistics ?

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/sexuallytransmitteddiseases.html
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on April 30, 2008, 01:31:11 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 04-25-2005 09:11 PM                       
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Glad to see you're no longer leaving, Veronica. I would miss you if you were gone. It probably goes without saying, but don't let Calvin bother you. Perhaps if enough of him ignore him or treat him with hostility, he'll be the one to leave, taking his new boyfriend with him.

And Docyabut, I disagree that Calvin ever tried to help Veronica, or anyone here. Help is brought on by compassion, not hatred and insults.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=12


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:11:45 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 04-25-2005 09:14 PM                       
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Did you know the leading cause of uterus canser is from a STD? I am a female of 62 years old and I have known many women in my life that have had uterus canser,and some that have even died from it. In the end are so surpise that it came from a STD.

Veronica ,you are still so young, so stop taking the risks that would lead to a total hysterectomy, and you will never have a chance to have a child.
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:12:05 pm
 
rockessence

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Member # 1839

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   posted 04-25-2005 09:22 PM                       
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There is no longer any need to suffer from diseases such as these...or HIV, cancer, dibetes and etc.

www.rockmedicine.com

www.pacific-crossroads.com

[ 04-25-2005, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:12:24 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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Member # 2194

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   posted 04-25-2005 09:35 PM                       
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Docyabut,

Actually I am no longer seeing anyone at the moment. I'm not going to get into the details, but the thing with Steve ended badly and you were right, he did not respect me. As for your other point about me, about respect, well, there's some men out there that probably would never respect us, no matter what year it is, sad but true.

The only person I'm going to tell the personal details to from this point on is Bluducky, though, and I hope that everyone understands. He is a very nice person, and I know he cares for me as a friend. Maybe I can also help him feel better about things, too, if he'll let me.

Anassa,

You are such a beautiful person and I genuinely wish that I could have learned more immediately from your experiences. I wish I could believe in myself more and also that I was half as far along as you and Bluducky think I am. I'm not, but you're right, Curt is back in my life as a friend and that is a very good thing.

Ishtar,

I wish I could look at all the good things in life and not the bad. Truth is, I am a very selfish person. All this time, Bluducky has been trying to help me, I was so self-absorbed that I couldn't see that he was having problems, too. There is a lot of pain in the world, and I think it hits each one of us at one time or another.

Michelle
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:14:22 pm
Stacy Dohm

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Member # 2189

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   posted 04-25-2005 09:54 PM                       
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Docyabut, I'm thinking that Veronica already knows all the risks, and yet doesn't care. She has always seemed a little sad to me, no matter how she tries to hide it.

--------------------
"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:14:40 pm
Stacy Dohm

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Member # 2189

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   posted 04-25-2005 09:56 PM                       
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Welcome back, Michelle!

--------------------
"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:14:56 pm
Zodiac

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   posted 04-25-2005 10:12 PM                       
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Speaking for myself, I like your stories, Veronica, I wouldn't mind hearing more, but understand if you want to keep them personal...
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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:15:16 pm
 
Dorian Gray
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Member # 192

Member Rated:
   posted 04-25-2005 10:50 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by docyabut:
To me before the sexual revolution womem had better standards, then after let down their standards of behavior that spewed out all over and in entertainment, men had more respect for women. Now women have only become equal to what was wrong in men in the frist place.  Now only 20% of marriages worked out today.
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In my opinion, men acted however the hell they wanted to and women stuck by them no matter what, and now women don't put up with that crap. And the only reason such a high percentage of marriages "worked out" before and they don't now is because of this fact.

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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Posts: 3787 | From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Aug 2000   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:15:37 pm
Dorian Gray
Member
Member # 192

Member Rated:
   posted 04-25-2005 10:51 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Veronica Poe:
In terms of whether I have exaggerated or deliberately misled anyone here, well, no. That is my life, laid bare, and, if anything, it's even worse than I told you. Be thankful, I suppose, that I've begun to spare you all the latest graphic details. I'll admit that one post in particular was a bit more graphic than it needed to be, yet, nonetheless, it did happen, just as I said it did. The reason why I haven't been posting lately is because I got the feeling that those details were getting a little offensive to some of you. While I could care less if I offend Calvin, I have no interest in offending any of the rest of you, who seem to be genuinely good people that might simply just not understand my lifestyle. I suppose I'm also a bit embarrassed by what I have written, although I have no interest in deleting or altering any of it.

I don't need to do anything extra to get Calvin mad at me, I don't think that any woman here needs to do that. He's just naturally mad at me all the time because he happens to be an irredeemable sexist who hates women. Like I said, just like my father, a man who, apparently, hates women just for the simple fact that we happen to be women. Since he'll never understand any of us, the best he can do to is try to make us feel guilty about our own sexuality. I find that loathsome, and I can only imagine what it is like for the women in his personal life.

Volitzer, thanks so much for your concern over my state of health (and continuing to harp on the idea that I might have an STD, very reassuring). I assure you once again that I'm clean. If I lived in New York, I might have a problem, but since I'm in the Midwest, most here aren't as sexually experienced. There's always a risk, of course, but for the most part the men I go with aren't as experienced as in your state, hence, not as risky - one hopes, anyway...

Aristotle, it might interest you to know that I no longer intend to leave the forum. There are several learned people here that are a pleasure to converse with and I am not going to let one or two narrow minded ones chase me away. Sorry Calvin (and your new boyfriend Norman), I'm afraid you'll still have to put up with me.

The abortion debate going on in the other topic really makes me feel a bit conflicted and guilty. Normally, I'm all for women's rights, but, unlike some of the women that come here, I've actually had an abortion, and I really don't believe that it solves anything. I think I would have been better off it I were to have a little daughter to love me right now, rather than the freedom to stay sexually promiscuous. Regarding children: I'm not all that certain I can even conceive anymore, there have been many chances with unprotected sex and I've never gotten pregnant again. I suppose I hold the abortion responsible. Do it if you must, girls, but get a good doctor and think before you do it, don't end up like me.

Peace & Love,

Veronica
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I missed it. What sort of woman are you? Do you have some kind of sex industry profession?

And why not a little SON?

--------------------
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Posts: 3787 | From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Aug 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:16:04 pm
Dorian Gray
Member
Member # 192

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   posted 04-25-2005 11:10 PM                       
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Veronica, I went back and read some of your posts. I had to check the address bar to make sure I wasn't in Penthouse Forums. Trust me when I say that isn't in any way a put-down.

In my opinion, a woman sleeping around isn't necessarily a "huge ****" or anything like that. It all has to do with the reason, to me. First of all, guys do it, so why can't girls? Second of all, if you sleep with someone because you are sexually attracted to them, I can't find fault if you take precautions, etc. If you sleep with someone in hopes to get something from them, that's a little different, but not much.

The whole thing depends on how much control you have over yourself. That's it. If you can stop when the need arises, you don't really have a problem. For example, if you found someone you really cared about and you stopped screwing everyone else no matter what and devoted yourself to that person, you're fine. It's when you find someone you really like and destroy the relationship ANYWAY that you have a problem.

Your father and other repressed and repressive people are partially responsible for your behavior. He and they should have been there for you when you needed them. The two guys are responsible! They are the criminals! They are the bad guys! It's not your fault, Veronica, and those guys should be in prison, not depositing your checks or making sure you don't speed or jaywalk. Your father was thinking of himself, not you. You tried to get revenge by becoming what he thought of you. You tried to relive the experience many times with your behavior. That's the part that is your fault, Veronica. You didn't have to prove anything to your father - or your mother, for that matter.

I hope you get someone to help you out with this, because you have a lot of years left, you know? You don't want to waste them all. You should try to find other people like you online, so you don't have to deal with them face-to-face, and try to find out what works for other people. Try to find out how to cope with your feelings better than you have been.

I am not judging you. You did what you thought you had to do, and some of your feelings are justified. I'm even pissed off at your dad!

I just hope that eventually there is a culture of shame for the perpetrators of **** rather than for the victims. The fact that I know the names and addresses of all convicted sex offenders in my city is a great start.

Speaking of that, perhaps you could try to find out if anyone else was a victim of those two guys. As far as I know, there is no statute of limitations on ****.

--------------------
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Posts: 3787 | From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Aug 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:16:29 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-25-2005 11:13 PM                       
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In truth I wish I could be more sexually active, but women here are too untrustworthy. It would be bad enough if I got an STD but if she got pregnant the feminist lawyers would hunt you down like a Canadian Mountie.

Calvin ain't that bad, a tad preachy but there are reasons why religions has certain rules about relationships and responsibilities.

He'll never match this one poster we had here from Canada named Peter V. He was the type to see the writing on the wall and claim it was a forgery. 
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:16:53 pm
 
bluducky

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Member # 1880

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   posted 04-26-2005 06:51 AM                       
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Wow Michelle, you mentioned me in EVERY paragraph, save one. Surely I have'nt helped you enough to deserve such mention.


Seeing as this looks like the place to properly dispense with emotional baggage, i'll post an update myself, in a rather uncharacteristic fashion:

(pardon the brevity and extreme lack of details.. it's late, and i'm tired, hurt and confused, and have a KILLER headache)

(and yes, I know it sounds as if i'm making light of the situation)


Things are bad. I left her, said "goodbye, have a good life". She cried, I felt bad, she kept crying.

Next day, we talked (it was too easy to say goodbye, I wanted to know why, and console her, to make her understand that I am NOT the one for her. foolish mistake? maybe? best thing I ever had done? who knows?) -- and we talked and talked.

She said she can't live without me, her life will be meaningless and emlty without me, etc.

She changed overnight, and WILL change whatever she has to in order to be with me, she will do ANYTHING to keep me.

I was skeptical. No one can change so quickly, nor make such an important decision overnight, against one's core beliefs.
I told her it will only be bad for us etc, and that she will only feel hurt being with me.

I said "I can make you happy, but you won't BE happy. you will always feel guilty, unless you change your religion..." she said nothing.

She then said she really CAN do anything, if it means she can have ME.

I told her we will make NO decisions today, nor tommorow, for that matter.


and that leaves an empty spot inside of me waiting for tommorrow. (I love her, but i'm not happy.. not yet.. not after what she has put me through)


I must test her true character, to make SURE she won't do this to me again... I need to know if she can stay with me, and be happy...


Needless to say, everything is on hold, until much further notice -- IF anything at all ever happens.

I am deeply. DEEPLY disappointed at all of this, and feel so ashamed that it has happened to me. I liked to think I was a better judge of character...

Such a cliche situation... (and I hate it)

I bid you all adieu until another time...

take care...

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:17:20 pm
Psycho

Member
Member # 2035

  posted 04-26-2005 10:27 AM                       
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Bluducky, pal, that took real courage on your part, and I am not certain I could have done the same.

(Course I would at that point still have been so pissed off that she would have suddenly wanted me to convert to her religion that I doubt I would have trusted anything she said at that point anyway.  )

Come to think of it, you did do the right thing. No woman that was really in love with you would demand such a sacrifice!

Hey, a lot of the threads in this particular forum seem to read like bitching sessions for people's personal problems!

Remember the good old days when we used to just come here to talk about Atlantis & Egypt? Oh, well, change is good...I guess! 
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Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:17:48 pm
rockessence

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Member # 1839

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   posted 04-26-2005 11:01 AM                       
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RE: "Hey, a lot of the threads in this particular forum seem to read like bitching sessions for people's personal problems!"

Nobody has to read the "bleeding heart" threads if they don't want to!!

I try to avoid them too, but everyone seems to be knee-deep in it.

I, too would prefer if the talk would focus more, as it used to, on Atl. and Egy.-- but it's a free and open forum....

Psycho, The change is NOT necessarily good, it is just change. Maybe good for those getting their issues resolved in some way, maybe not for others.

If one has limited time to focus here, it can be monumentally wasteful!

Some are not here anymore, perhaps because of the shift....(or usurping, some might say, of focus)

Where is Boreas?

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:18:17 pm
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

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   posted 04-26-2005 11:11 AM                       
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Thank you Psycho, and I must admit, I truly do miss conversing with you 

It is now 3:10 am, Wednesday morning. I am wrapped in a nice warm blue blanket, at my computer, with my feet on the warm tower under my desk -- and I am so sick, I feel like I am about to vomit. (just when you think things couldn't get worse -- insomnia, pain, cold night, headache, sore nose, upset stomach, blurred vision, sore throat; and the list goes on..) (pardon the graphic detail, but right now, I really don't care what I say)


Well.. I'm feeling brave. I think i'll stick around for a bit...

oh! and Rock!

I think I saw Boreas by the water cooler. He said something about losing for his keys...

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=12


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:18:39 pm
bluducky

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Member # 1880

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   posted 04-26-2005 11:22 AM                       
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PS: forgot to mention my internet just went down. Another one to add to 'The List', but who's counting, right? 

I apologise for being a whining little attention seeker, everybody. I just thought you might like to know a little mroe about what has been keeping me * insert painful, uncontrollable, spasmodic sneezes here* 'busy' lately...

Oh great.. out of tissues...

(it's actually quite funny  )

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:19:05 pm
Ishtar

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Member # 736

  posted 04-26-2005 12:01 PM                       
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you have nothing to be ashamed of ducky

actually a break from searching for truth is necessary, I have read so much information chasing my tail untill I forgot what i read , sometimes it is good to just "not think" and what can be more important in life then reaching out to one another.

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Posts: 10767 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:19:22 pm
Psycho

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Member # 2035

  posted 04-26-2005 12:35 PM                       
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Bluducky, I miss conversing with you, too (and take care of that cold, buddy). I have been looking for ways to motivate the Egypt and Atlantis forums (which is also not what it used to be), but confess I have writer's block at the moment.

Rocky, don't you like this new emphasis on our feelings? Maybe Boreas didn't want to get in touch with his inner child, and that is why he left.

[ 04-26-2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Psycho ]
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Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:19:42 pm
Dawn Moline

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Member # 2173

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   posted 04-26-2005 08:15 PM                       
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Well, personally I don't mind anyone using my threads to discuss anything they like, in fact, I encourage everyone to do so. I don't think that Boreas or anyone else was driven away by the nature of the discussions because most who are gone never came to Ancient Mysteries anyway.

Bluducky, sorry about your problems, it's good to see you back, though. We need more voices of reason around here.

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:20:02 pm
Veronica Poe

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Member # 2172

  posted 04-26-2005 08:49 PM                       
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Dorian, thank you for the wealth of understanding you've shown me. Much as I hate to admit it, I feel a prisoner of my own life. Everything you said was correct, and Docyabut and Volitzer have raised some good points, too, I just don't know if I have it in me to change. My need is compulsive, and every man who genuinely did care about me, I have managed to drive away. I wish I could envision a happy ending for myself, but all I see ahead is more of the same. Perhaps an early death, which some days I would welcome.

I have tried therapy, nothing works. You sort of fall into this pattern, you know? And oddly, the only time I realize that it's a problem is when I keep posting here. The men in my life certainly don't want to make me feel like it's a problem. It's only when I stand back and think about some of the things that I have done that I tend to see what I have become.

I can only imagine how it would go now if I tried to bring charges today against two men for something that happened eleven years ago. Each of them is now considered respectable citizens, married, with children of their own. I imagine I would just be considered this lowlife **** out to spoil their reputations, which, let's face it, is pretty much what I am now. One way or another, this world has decided to make my life one sick joke.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:20:19 pm
Veronica Poe

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Member # 2172

  posted 04-26-2005 08:51 PM                       
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Docyabut, thank you for the compassion you've shown me. I know you don't approve of my lifestyle, and I wouldn't either looking at it from your point of view. What can I say, I know the risks, that I am being reckless and just asking to get killed. Can you understand it when I say, that some days I could care less? I can no longer have children, it's been years since I've last gotten pregnant. Believe me, if it could have happened again, it would have. I've ruined my chance at being a mother, probably also at being a good wife, too. I am actively destoying myself with this lifestyle and it doesn't really matter to me.

I don't mind saying that the more I have to talk about my problems and explain why I live the way I do, the more embarrassed I tend to feel about coming here. I realize that I put all this on the table, that everyone is just trying to help, and that I have only myself to blame, but I'm starting to wish we could all talk about something else. Some of the advice is only making me feel worse. I've already tried and failed at most of it anyway. I let men use me, it's an ongoing problem, and I don't even know if I have it within me to any longer change.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:20:39 pm
Calvin Noble

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Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-26-2005 09:01 PM                       
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Veronica, I wonder if you could explain this quote:


quote:
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On my own, I even managed to get pregnant. I was in no position to take care of myself, let alone a child, so I was forced to have an abortion, she'd be six if she lived today. I've always wanted a little girl which is why I tend to say "her."
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Whatever possessed you to take the life of your unborn child? I know you are, by habit, an immoral woman, but how shameless and cruel can you be?

Veronica, I would dearly like to help you, but you have, with your own words, made yourself the lowest woman here. And how can you continue to parade this immoral lifestyle of yours before others?

I said I would be lenient towards you if you went and sought help, yet I see no evidence that you have yet done so. Have you sought treatment for your condition? Or will you be eternally content to let men treat you like an abandoned ****? I would like to help you find your way, Veronica, but it seems you aren't interested in finding it, only in enduring more of the same.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:21:13 pm
Veronica Poe

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Member # 2172

  posted 04-26-2005 09:07 PM                       
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No, I'm not interested in changing my life, which is none of your concern, you nosy prude. If you don't like my lifestyle, by all means, don't read about it! I'm sick of your inane moral lecturing, sick of you hiding behind the Bible to make your case, and most of all, I'm sick of you..!

Calvin, don't you have a daughter or two that you'd better get back to molesting??
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:21:31 pm
Calvin Noble

Member
Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 04-26-2005 09:24 PM                       
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Veronica, you may not like my manner, but I am earnest about trying to help you. I could not be more earnest if you actually were my daughter. You're young enough to be my daughter and you need someone firm to guide you in this life, whether you think you do or not.

Veronica, you are truly a fallen woman, what a wayward soul you have become. I do indeed pity your poor parents, especially your poor father. But as I have told you earlier, while you are here, I will tell you when you err, and do my best to send you back on a moral path.Of all the wayward spirits that come here, I have decided that you are the one who needs my guidance the most. And you will continue to get it, whether you like it or not.

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:21:49 pm
Norman Pounders

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Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 04-26-2005 10:13 PM                       
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Welcome back, Calvin Noble, glad you're back to help whip these liberals in line.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:23:03 pm
Morrison

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Member # 2156

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   posted 04-26-2005 10:52 PM                       
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Wow, what a shameful, despicable display towards a woman in need. You two little fascist bastards ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Yes, you're really going to help someone by yelling at them and engaging in name-calling.
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Posts: 391 | From: New England | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:23:38 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-26-2005 11:11 PM                       
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Look Veronica and Michelle:  :)

Life has less to do with position and more to do with disposition.

"There's no fate but what we make."

"Not to decide is to decide not to."

"By failing to prepare, you prepare to fail."


On eHarmony I'm communicating with a match based on 29 dimensions of compatibility. If you really want to change your disposition then give it a try. www.eHarmony.com You pay only when you want to start communication. The profile and matching is free.

Hint: Stay within in your own state for best results, unless you are a man in Alaska or New York. 

After all half of LIFE is IF...
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:23:56 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-26-2005 11:13 PM                       
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.. and no I am not being paid by eHarmony.com I had to pay my dues $200 for a year membership. It's better than putting up with the feminist, cuntra, slothras and other deviant women in NYS. 
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:24:23 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 04-27-2005 04:10 AM                       
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Veronica, according to a study, there is a female raped every two minutes,you are not alone. Have you ever gone to any **** programs? Some times in helping others, we help our selves.You are still young and have a whole future a head of you.As a old gal trust me ,you never know what suprises there are around that corner in life. that will make you happy:)
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:25:07 pm
docyabut
Member
Member # 117

Rate Member   posted 04-27-2005 04:23 AM                       
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And don`t mind some of the men on this forum that tried to help you by anger.Some think anger helps and sometime it does, like man am I going to prove you wrong :)its just their way.
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Posts: 8314 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:25:26 pm
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 04-27-2005 10:47 PM                       
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Docyabut, my father didn't believe in any therapy, his best advice was to tell me to "forget." He only paid for some when I turned eighteen, years after the attack, and only then it was because it was a last resort, because I had gotten so out of hand.

On my own, I've seen **** counsellors and even had my own shrink. I've had so much therapy...well, you wouldn't believe how much. I'm not in therapy now, I've given up on it and can't afford it anymore either. I've heard all this before and nothing has ever worked.

Calvin doesn't want to help me, nor help anyone. No one who cares for anyone could ever talk to someone the way he talks to me. He says things simply to be intentionally cruel. I'm made to feel like a worthless **** everytime I come here by him. Well, maybe that description does sum up the type of person I am, but I'm also a human being, too. I have feelings, and it hurts to have people try and walk all over them.

Morrison, thank you for sticking up for me. This forum needs more men like you, Trent, Zodiac and Bluducky in it.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:26:12 pm
Trent

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Member # 2174

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   posted 04-27-2005 11:28 PM                       
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Thanks for the compliment, Veronica, but I haven't really been around to do much in your defense lately. That's about to change.

Calvin Ignoble, I am getting past sick of you, man. You're a hypocrite and you seem to come here just to bash people, most of them women. From now on, when you try that crap, look for me, cause those days are over (and that goes for your boyfriend Norman, too). The rest of us want to have a constructive discussion, lead, follow, or get left behind.

--------------------
"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:26:37 pm
Calvin

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Member # 2228

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   posted 04-28-2005 03:15 PM                       
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Trent

I got tired of him too. Now if I read a thread he's posting in I just skip what he wrote and go onto to the next poster.

Its just not worth the irritation. I have enough to deal with without adding his stupidity to my daily life.
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Posts: 211 | From: El Cajon, CA | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:27:11 pm
bluducky

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Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 04-28-2005 04:58 PM                       
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Come, gentlemen. 'Violence' on an internet forum has never solved anything, nor can it; it only fuels more hatred.
What you see is but mere words on a screen, don't let them get to you too much...

Veronica, what you need is intensive 24 hour support. Nothing else will suffice, as nothing else is THERE to help when a problem arises. You need someone there to strengthen you and support you when you feel overcome.

Good words matter little, if they have no effect to aid you in crisis, and you clearly see this is true. Counselling can offer nothing fit for you. Nothing but an active presence is able to truly help a person who cannot help themselves. Everybody needs additional support sometimes..

If only you lived a little closer...

Volitzer

I tried eHarmony as an experiment, and had a lot of fun filling out their profile information. Instantly, I received five 'matches' (all from the US), and some more later on. several have contacted me, and all were impressed 

Needless to say, it was an experiment, and nothing more has come of it, besides a few new friends. (and yes, I explained to them immediately that it was an experiment, so no "you're an evil manipulative, man" statements, please)

eHarmony: 8/10 stars 

Psycho

I can't believe I let myself be so revealing of my personal life, but feel no shame whatsoever for doing so. If one wants to be of any use, one must lead by example. I have no shame in being a public 'bleeding heart' for that very reason. I encourage all to likewise share their trapped emotions; for to tell, is to heal.

(I know those who have done so are not the only ones. Why hide yourself, when you are already hidden behind a mask? Need you protect your alias? There is no shame in sharing what life has given you...)

-----

I bid you all adieu...

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:27:37 pm
 
Metatron

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Member # 2413

Member Rated:
   posted 04-28-2005 09:00 PM                       
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quote:
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Speaking of that, perhaps you could try to find out if anyone else was a victim of those two guys. As far as I know, there is no statute of limitations on ****.
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Yes, there are statute of limitations on **** in almost all states, if not all. It is 5 years in PA, do not know about the midwest
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Posts: 209 | From: Stevens, Pa. | Registered: Apr 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:27:53 pm
Trent

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Member # 2174

Member Rated:
   posted 04-28-2005 11:17 PM                       
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Calvin, this place actually was pretty cool before CN came to it. No arguments, and everyone just concentrated on the research. I can only imagine how many people he alone has driven away. You can stand up to people without using violence (one hopes).

--------------------
"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:28:13 pm
Dawn Moline

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Member # 2173

Member Rated:
   posted 04-28-2005 11:50 PM                       
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Yes, Trent, we must never use violence to solve a problem. Ignoring them works just as well. This is an Internet forum, we shall never agree with everyone on it. Shame that some have to be so intentionally hurtful, though...

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:28:30 pm
Morrison

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Member # 2156

Member Rated:
   posted 04-29-2005 12:05 AM                       
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Dawn, I have to agree with Trent on this one. Some of the things being said here have been intentionally hurful to women like yourself in this forum, even if you don't personally want to admit it. I'm going to start standing up for you, Veronica and Michelle whether you want me to or not. It's not violence, the only noble thing to do.
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Posts: 391 | From: New England | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:28:51 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-29-2005 12:13 AM                       
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Bluducky:

I wouldn't worry about it, my closed matches page is up to 15 long by now, of course there's only 5 names to a page. Mainly it's the relocation issue and the fact that NY matches never follow thru, but being from NYS we all know how lazy they are anyway.  Others just weren't ready even tho they thought they were. Of course eHarmony states it's 85% compatibility and 15% chemistry.   

They should set up an eHarmony in China and Mexico for women/men who want to migrate. Don't think me as a proponent for mail order brides however there are just certain states in the USA where the potential is way toooo limited in a particular geographic confine. 
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:29:07 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-29-2005 12:17 AM                       
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I will say this Veronica and Michelle at least you go for normal men tho they may be incompatible with you. 

Not like NY women who find the thought of sex disgusting until a scum of the Earth gang member or ex-con shows them some affection. 
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 05, 2008, 01:29:43 pm
Psycho

Member
Member # 2035

  posted 04-29-2005 07:44 AM                       
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Bluducky,

You have my utmost respect for talking about your problems here, and I would also say the same to Veronica, Michelle, Ishtar, and anyone else who has chosen to bare their soul. Hey, we're all friends here, right? Well, except for some of the ones that didn't seem to want to come here to make friends. Even if most of us are hiding behind an alias, people still judge you by everything you say here.

Point is, some of the people here shouldn't be judging. If someone has the guts to make themselves appear less than perfect in other people's eyes, they should be made to feel better about that, not called names and made to feel worse, like certain other people seem to want to do here.

[ 04-29-2005, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Psycho ]
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Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2004


http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=13


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:21:51 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-30-2005 12:23 AM                       
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I hope no one judges me yet, I'm still trying to get off some winter weight. The speedo competition could be brutal. 
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:22:17 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-30-2005 12:24 AM                       
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 Sorry didn't mean to spoil anyone's appetite there. 
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:22:40 pm
cydonia

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Member # 282

Member Rated:
   posted 04-30-2005 12:46 AM                       
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Damn, Vol, are you still hating on New York/East Coast women? Hey, consistency counts for something, anyway.

I remain in complete amazement that the only person to question your "new" (read:old) term "cuntra" is TomB.
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Posts: 3974 | From: colorado, usa | Registered: Dec 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:24:45 pm
Carolyn Silver

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Member # 2287

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   posted 04-30-2005 03:35 PM                       
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Well, I sure as heck question that new term, Volitzer, get a new one, will you?
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005 

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=13


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:25:06 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Member # 2175

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   posted 04-30-2005 09:08 PM                       
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Calvin and Norman seem to have made some enemies...
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Posts: 269 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:25:39 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 04-30-2005 09:20 PM                       
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Trevor, admit it, you come here looking for Michelle, right? You like Michelle. Whiney and clingy is your type!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:26:00 pm
Trevor Proffitt

Member
Member # 2175

Member Rated:
   posted 04-30-2005 09:36 PM                       
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Pagan, I don't even know Michelle. What makes you think that I like her?
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Posts: 269 | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:26:22 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 04-30-2005 09:46 PM                       
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Because I've noticed that you only show up at nights, and the only time you ever interact with the rest of us is in this thread, where poor Michelle first told her story in. You come here looking for Michelle!

Well, I got news for you, buddy, she hasn't been here in days and probably won't be coming back, too! Hopefully, that is..!

Your window of opportunity has closed!

--------------------
╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:26:52 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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I show up at nights because, like a lot of people, I work during the day and don't have computer access.

Why are you always picking on Michelle?

She seems nice, I don't find her whiney, she just seems kind of senstive. Like Dawn said, I don't think it's a bad thing for people to hash out their personal problems in these threads.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:27:27 pm
Pagan

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Nice picture!

Okay, I'm so mean to Michelle because, well, Michelle, I have a crush on you, too, sweetie.  I'm so mean to you because, well I don't want to admit my feelings for you and it's become sort of a defense mechanism for me to be mean to you.

Michelle, please come back... 
All is forgiven!

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:27:45 pm
 
Trevor Proffitt

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Good luck with that, Pagan.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:28:04 pm
 
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I was kidding, Trevor!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:28:27 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Sure you were.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:28:51 pm
Volitzer

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When did Tom B ever question the term "cuntra"??? and considering hip hop refers to women as their bitches I don't see why everyone has such a problem with that here. It's just a classification not based on anything but personality type. Much like liberals and conservatives etc. etc. 

After all as intellectuals we have an obligation to term concepts of stupidity, like Nazism, Communism, liberalism, unregulated capitalism etc.

If ugly truths scare you then go hide under the bed cuz this planet is full of them 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:29:27 pm
Jade Hellene

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Well, it is an ugly, offensive little term, Volitzer, and I'm sure you're smart enough to think of another one to make your point. All that one does is alienate women like me and make me feel like you're a sexist. You wouldn't want that, would you?

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:29:51 pm
Volitzer

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I don't get why you guys are taking the term so personally.

I mean if someone uses the term chauvanist I don't get offended cuz I'm not one 

lighten up... 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 06, 2008, 01:30:32 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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To be honest, I don't like the term either, Volitzer. I can't see how it helps your case to be that offensive intentionally.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:18:34 pm
Volitzer

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You'll never fully understand unless you visit New York State. It must be great to live in areas with normal to bitchy women. 

Since when in hell did everyone get so "sensitive" all of a sudden. 

It's not like the insult is directed at anyone here.

[ 04-30-2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:18:54 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Well, hey, don't get offended, man, I don't think anyone has any issues with you, just the term.

I don't think that anyone here is taking it personally. You just can see why women wouldn't like that word, and there's a lot more women in the forum than there used to be. That's all.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:19:16 pm
 
Volitzer

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I'm not offended but it just the point in which what happens if we let this slide. From now on everytime we find a term that makes us uncomfortable we can just null and void someone's free speech??? 

This is what I'm concerned with. 

What if I get super-sensitive and find the term zionist vulgar???

I just don't get why if the derogatory term isn't aimed at anyone here why the uncomfortability??? 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:19:45 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Let's just drop it, man.

You need to move, Volitzer! Why are you still living there if you can't find anyone nice? Why don't you move to Connecticut or some other place nearby if it's become such a problem?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:20:07 pm
Volitzer

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Cuz first another AR member is coming here to NYS to help save GM in Michigan.

That and I'm using eHarmony and seeking a soulmate who's willing to relocate. This way I know they're compatible.

So far I'm talking to this one in Florida who's 35 and keeping her moving options open. 

That and I gotta keep an eye on my nieces, my bro and sis-in-law are no where near earning the parents of the year award.

I did at one time leave NY for Michigan but the economy was so bad I had to move back to NYS. A New Yorker in Michigan can't get any welfare there for 8 months, even tho we're all Americans, but if you're an illegal alien from Mexico in other states you get it all for free.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:20:31 pm
 
Volitzer

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You guys got to stop being anti-1st-Amendment-Nazis. 

oops!!!! 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:20:53 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Yep, oops, might have just gotten yourself in trouble again.

So you can't move. Well, New York can't be all bad. There's something like seven million people there, aren't there? You must be able to find someone sane.

Truly, women are different in other parts of the country. I have my own issues with them sometimes, but I've honestly never run into any of the crap you're talking about.

Well, goodnight all, it's been interesting...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:21:14 pm
Volitzer

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Until you do what I'm saying may be forever abstract to everyone here. 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:21:35 pm
Vlad
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  posted 05-01-2005 01:36 AM                   
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Cuntra... lotsa funny & similar words you can compose with it.

Cuntraband...

Cuntrol...

Cuntrived...

Cuntraption...

Cuntrabass...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:21:52 pm
Jade Hellene

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Well, that was certainly a clever post, Vlad.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:22:15 pm
rockessence

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Pros and Cunts?

Cuntfabulation?

Is this a Cuntest?

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All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:24:36 pm
Dawn Moline

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Well, this topic has taken a turn for the worst...

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:24:56 pm
unknown

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   posted 05-01-2005 09:31 PM                       
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So Dawn

What are the origins of love?

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:25:14 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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Volitzer, we don't have to have the same experiences for me to know where you're coming from. It's still wrong to class a whole group of people together. I'm hoping you already know that, and so that you'll just drop it, at least around here.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:25:55 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-01-2005 09:49 PM                       
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This message was a "clone" of the previous one and has since been deleted.

[ 05-01-2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Trevor Proffitt ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:27:08 pm
Dawn Moline

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Unknown,

500 + posts later, I am still trying to figure that out. I was always raised to believe that love is a good thing, that most people spend their lives in search of it. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have certainly been in love before.

What I fail to take into account, though, is that for many of you, it is also a bad thing, a thing to be shunned. I'm getting the feeling that many of you have been hurt here by love before, that some of you don't want love, it's ore comfortable and you genuinely want to be alone.

I think I can understand that, too, and respect it, too, I think.

Well, we've heard from Michelle, Bluducky, Veronica, Ishtar and many others on their own stories of loss.

Does anyone else want to share their own stories of love and loss?

Feel free if you do, my want is that we strive to understand one another, not judge one another.

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:28:57 pm
Pagan

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Dawn, I'd be more than happy to share some of my stories with you, but I'm afraid they might offend the audience. I make your friend Veronica look like a Sunday school teacher at my worst!!

Or is it best??

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:29:15 pm
unknown

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Dawn

"It is better to have loved and lost
then never to have loved at all"

Don't know who said that but I agree with the sentiment.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:29:31 pm
rockessence

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Shakespeare...?

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:29:55 pm
Aristotle

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Well, I'd share some of my stories here, Dawn, but the last time I did that, I was one of the many who received a moral bitching from Calvin, who seems to think that anyone who has ever had sex is IMMORAL. Maybe another time.

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- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:30:11 pm
unknown

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Gotta be Rockessence

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:30:26 pm
Andrew Waters

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  posted 05-01-2005 11:00 PM                       
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Volitzer, I can't get a post to delete. How did you do it? I posted and then set up for a delete but all I manage is an edit. Heck, I can't even find a DELETE button anywhere.

[ 05-01-2005, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Waters ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:30:44 pm
Jade Hellene

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Andrew, you can't delete what you've written, only alter it. So I suppose you can erase everything you've written and put an icon in there or something.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:31:03 pm
 
Andrew Waters

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  posted 05-01-2005 11:36 PM                       
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Thanks Jade. However, the administrators say a post can be deleted by members, then it says only moderators can perform the function.

Anyway, I've noticed when you, meaning you, want to quote in block form I believe, don't forget to pay attention to which way the brackets are turned. You must be typing wayy to fast 
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:31:26 pm
Jade Hellene

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Guilty as charged! I always type fast when I'm angry.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 07, 2008, 01:32:27 pm
Anteros

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quote:
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"It is better to have loved and lost
then never to have loved at all"

Don't know who said that but I agree with the sentiment.
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Here you go, Unknown...

"I envy not in any moods
The captive void of noble rage,
The linnet born within the cage,
That never knew the summer woods:
I envy not the beast that takes
His license in the field of time,
Unfetter’d by the sense of crime,
To whom a conscience never wakes;

Nor, what may count itself as blest,
The heart that never plighted troth
But stagnates in the weeds of sloth;
Nor any want-begotten rest.

I hold it true, whate’er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
’Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all."

Alfred Lord Tennyson, In Memorium A.H.H.


--------------------
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Rush --> "Freewill"

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:23:57 pm
unknown

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That is awesome Anteros
beautiful poem, thanks

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:24:20 pm
Ren

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Hi everyone,

I'm relatively new here, but been lurking for a year or more. Registered months ago. This thread finally drew me in with the same kind of magnetic pull that "The OC" has on me. I feel like I have a good sense of the different personalities here.

To give you a quick idea of who I am, I'm 36, male, a technical writer/designer at a software company, an open-minded agnostic. Buddhist leanings. Absolutely fascinated and thrilled by the mysteries of the universe and this Earth.


So, if I may be so nosey and bold as to jump in and comment on the major topics of discussion, or should I say comment TO them...


Michelle:

Curt is a fool (no offense Curt, I've been a fool more than once) for turning away a love like yours, and all we can do is hope that he'll be so lucky again one day. I guarantee that 30 years from now he'll be thinking about you with regret. This moment came in his life because he believed it would, and he was likely waiting for something like this to happen so his insecurities could be proven right. He's been prepared for this, with the anticipation building for two years, which is why it seemed so easy for him to close off to you. Besides the pain, what he probably hasn't shown you is the sense of relief he's feeling. Now he can find someone more "on his level".

Dating a beautiful girl can be stressful, especially if you're lacking in the confidence department. Here you two are at a mall, and he sees all the heads you're turning. He's thinking, "she could have any one of these guys, and a lot of them are better looking than me." What he should be thinking is, "they WISH they were me," while trying to wipe the smile off his face and look cool  (how appropriate was that smiley??)

He isn't experienced enough to know about the whole "nice guy, bad boy" thing, and your basic instincts were partly at fault for seeking out something more exciting. Frankly, I'm surprised you stuck with him as long as you did - that tells me what a nice person you are. Oh and shame on you 

What you need is someone who has the confidence to date a beautiful girl and not be paranoid or jealous about it. I would say that Steve is that kind of guy, except he's proven what a complete ass he is for taking advantage of you that day. Stay away from him.

As for the pain, I know from experience it can take a very long time to heal. Remaining friends is not an especially good idea. I dragged out my heartache for a year longer than was necessary, always with the hope that she would finally "see" what I saw. She didn't, she married the other guy, and that was a blow to the chest I didn't think I would survive. But here I am.

You'll never forget him, but you'll find you're capable of moving on even if you don't believe it right now (in fact, sorry to say this, 6 months from now you likely still won't believe it. Hang in there). I wouldn't leap into anything right away, just because it's not fair to the guy.

Meanwhile, get an annual pass to an amusement park, drag a girlfriend with you, eat some cotton candy, and watch the heads turn.


Veronica:

Nothing wrong with a healthy sexual appetite. There are women who would give a lot to physically feel the way you do. You just need to find a nice guy that satisfies you, and try sticking with him for a few months, just to see what's possible. Have an arrangement with him: when you get the urge, he's on call 

See if you've grown since your previous engagements. Like was already stated, if he is a good fit for you and you still do your best to drive him away, something else may be wrong. I would suggest asking yourself at that moment what you're looking for. If you know the answer, and it's as simple as "someone else", then maybe it really is nothing more than an intense appetite. In that case I would suggest you need more tranquillity in your life, or you need to seek out something that will make you feel fulfilled along with sex. You're probably already into fitness, so maybe try meditation? Scrabble? 

Oh and I certainly don't recommend giving up sex completely. It is FAR too much fun 


Bluducky and Volitzer:

I gave eHarmony an honest try for a year. The problem with their system is that it relies on honest answers from your matches, and that doesn't always happen. Because you're so limited in the number of people it selects for you, the chances of a physical attraction are slim, at least in my experience. For that and other reasons, eHarmony didn't bring me a single date.

I've used many others, and paid for memberships at match.com and cupidjunction. None worked well for me, and I'm a guy that not only tends to turn heads when I go out, I've got all the other pluses women look for - 6'+, great shape, stable career, funny (  ), etc! It didn't make sense.

Then I discovered Craig's List. I've had more dates from the San Diego Craig's List in the last 6 months than I had in the year prior to that on a half-dozen other sites put together. It takes work, but it's worth it. And it's free.


Dawn:

Great topic, and I'll bet not at all what you expected 

Whatever your past, I've gotten nothing but good feelings from your posts here, and that means this world (or at least my piece of it) is a better place with you in it.


Now for the topic!!

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/love/

One of many favorites:

"Perhaps the feelings that we experience when we are in love represent a normal state. Being in love shows a person who he should be."
- Anton Chekhov

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"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:24:39 pm
Dawn Moline

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Thanks so much for the compliment, Ren, I believe in including others wherever possible, for that is the only way we shall ever understand one another and, perhaps, work through our differences. And you're right, this isn't at all like I expected.

I like your posts and find them very thoughtful. I'd been meaning to welcome you, and so, I'll do that now. I hope you plan on staying for a long time. We could use another idealist, not to mention another kind person around here.

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:25:01 pm
Vlad
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  posted 05-02-2005 11:02 PM                   
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Ren,


quote:
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This moment came in his life because he believed it would, and he was likely waiting for something like this to happen so his insecurities could be proven right. He's been prepared for this, with the anticipation building for two years, which is why it seemed so easy for him to close off to you. Besides the pain, what he probably hasn't shown you is the sense of relief he's feeling. Now he can find someone more "on his level".
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You hit the nail on the head with this comment about Curt - especially the last sentence.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:25:20 pm
Ren

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   posted 05-02-2005 11:04 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dawn Moline:
I like your posts and find them very thoughtful. I'd been meaning to welcome you, and so, I'll do that now. I hope you plan on staying for a long time. We could use another idealist, not to mention another kind person around here.
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Thanks! I think I will stay for a while. There are some interesting and unique people here. I fear that I may spend more time than I intended, and maybe that's why I avoided posting for so long, but it's definitely not time wasted.

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

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Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:25:38 pm
Jennie McGrath

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I'd like to welcome you, too, Ren! And a word of warning, stay clear of Calvin and Norman, they're the two dumb, rude ones!
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:25:53 pm
Baphomet

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Yes, welcome as well, Ren, and love the avatar.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:26:13 pm
Volitzer

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What gets me about women is given how much they need masculine validation, why they either sabotage a good relationship or shack up with guys that do them wrong. 

Like one time this one girl was being beaten by her boyfriend in a mall parking lot here in NYS, a chivalrous guy comes along and pushed him off then she turns around and attacks him!!!   

I swear if the NY female was a species they'd be extinct by now. I don't know if anything like this goes on in any other state. I hope not.
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:27:48 pm
 
Baphomet

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   posted 05-02-2005 11:59 PM                       
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Well, that's New York for you.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:28:08 pm
Ren

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Thanks, Jennie and Baphomet.

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:28:31 pm
Ren

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   posted 05-03-2005 08:18 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Vlad:
Ren,
You hit the nail on the head with this comment about Curt - especially the last sentence.
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I was trying to justify him leaving her for this, and it didn't compute. That's when I thought it's probably as much his problem as what she did.

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"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:28:57 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 05-03-2005 12:48 PM                       
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welcome ren, great quote,
"Perhaps the feelings that we experience when we are in love represent a normal state. Being in love shows a person who he should be."

but i am still wondering exactly what draws us to certain individuals.
and
What exactly is love? In its purest form of course it would be everything one might think a divine supernatural love can be.
but,
love is different things to different people.

For instance love would be selfless, yet when we are in love we for the most part want to be loved in return so that is not entirely selfless is it?

[ 05-03-2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:29:19 pm
Ishtar

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  posted 05-03-2005 12:56 PM                       
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So I was thinking,if we love expecting to be loved back is that selfish?


It is easy to love someone who loves you back but can we love others when we are hated? Then that is selfless love.

You quote really made me think, so MY husband who I loved dearly, was abusive, does that mean I was wanting to be like him or did I need to learn selfless love?

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:29:41 pm
Ren

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   posted 05-03-2005 06:19 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Ishtar:
So I was thinking,if we love expecting to be loved back is that selfish?
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Good question. I've wondered that about karma. If I want to do good partly because it will help me in the end, isn't that selfish?

I think wanting to be loved back is only human. When you know you're in love, the "giving" part doesn't feel selfish at all, but still feels great. I think receiving is just a nice bonus. And when it's a two-way street like that, it's much more powerful than two people giving by themselves. If that makes sense.

Unrequited love is another story - you still feel good giving, but get the pain of rejection to go along with it.


quote:
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It is easy to love someone who loves you back but can we love others when we are hated? Then that is selfless love.
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I can see loving someone who hated me. But I would have trouble loving someone that I had an extreme dislike for. For example, I wouldn't think that someone who enjoys hurting others deserves to receive love. But then maybe the purest form of love isn't discriminating that way.

Maybe it will ultimately turn out to be a force of nature of some kind. So was it a "created" thing, or is it a fundamental part of existence that has always been? Is evil just as important to have around - that is, for balance, and to prevent boredom? 


quote:
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You quote really made me think, so MY husband who I loved dearly, was abusive, does that mean I was wanting to be like him or did I need to learn selfless love?
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I don't think you wanted to be like him. I think you saw the good in him and loved him for that.

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:30:05 pm
Ren

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I had another thought or two...

I know some here think of it as a purely human (or animal) feeling, generated by the brain. That could be, but I prefer to think of it as something more than that. Maybe it's a sort of universal background radiation that transcends dimensions, and humans (and animals) are capable of channeling that energy somehow. Maybe it's the "blood" or synapses of that universal mind we like to believe in.

But then we also have a pretty good idea that many emotions are centered in the brain, and can be altered with drugs. So that just confuses the issue.

I should probably mention that I think the "supernatural" is actually totally normal and natural - we just don't have the instruments to measure it. Yet. I believe science will eventually catch up and pass the mystical, and we'll find that we can know the whole truth.

[ 05-03-2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Ren ]

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:30:29 pm
Jade Hellene

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   posted 05-03-2005 08:17 PM                       
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quote:
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 It is easy to love someone who loves you back but can we love others when we are hated? Then that is selfless love.
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Or, in some cases, stalking. 


quote:
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You quote really made me think, so MY husband who I loved dearly, was abusive, does that mean I was wanting to be like him or did I need to learn selfless love?
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Ishtar, this pattern is typical of women in abusive relationships. I don't see it so much as selfless love, but rather a "conditioned response." He abused you to take away your self-esteem, willingness to leave, and make you co-dependent on him. You have my sympathies, but this is why feminism is needed. Women shouldn't have to put up with that crap anytime, anywhere. They should realize their own self worth and they shouldn't let anyone take their identity.

--------------------
Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:30:49 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-03-2005 09:34 PM                       
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Thank you for your advice, Ren, you are very wise, and you've summed a lot of things up for me. I know I have to move on, but at the same time, I just don't have it within me to move on. I still can't believe it that the whole future I saw for myself is now gone. Thank you for humor, and for the compliments, but believe me, the last thing I'm feeling these days is beautiful. I feel used up and old, also so very tired now much of the time.

I think that everyone here has only heard my point of view on the whole thing, though, which may not have been the fairest to Curt. Talk to him, and you might get a whole other story. And, I'm sad to say, I still don't exactly know what that story is...

The two of us have tried a reconciliation, but I can already tell it's probably not going to work. I accept full responsibility for what happened, but I can't keep on apologizing for things each time we are together, nor can I continue to take all this endless volley of insults and new accusations. The hurt runs so much deeper than I could have known, and I also suppose I'm also a lot more sensitive than I ever gave myself credit for. I cannot endure things like they are, and I feel I'm also the one doing all the work. It takes two people to try to make things happen, not just one.

Well, anyway, just wanted to say hi to everybody and let everyone know how things are going with me. And no, this time I promise not to bore anyone here with a lot of the details. Bluducky still has to hear them and it's bad enough that he has to listen to them, I suppose. Well, later, all, and thank you everyone, for keeping me in your thoughts...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:31:06 pm
 
Trent

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   posted 05-03-2005 09:39 PM                       
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You know, I am with Vlad on this one. Curt is in dire need of an ass-kicking.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:31:24 pm
Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 05-03-2005 09:43 PM                       
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Good to hear from you, Michelle. Why don't you just get rid of Curt altogether and find someone else? I'm sure you have plenty of admirers, and that one of them will treat you nice.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:31:49 pm
Pagan

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   posted 05-03-2005 09:56 PM                       
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Err, anyone in particular you have in mind for her, Trevor..?

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:32:03 pm
 
Michelle Sandberg

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   posted 05-03-2005 09:59 PM                       
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Was Curt really 'relieved,' to be rid of me? If so, why? I just don't understand why, I don't understand anything about all this. I gave him everything I had to give, let him set all the rules, I don't understand what more I could have done to make things right between us...
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:32:18 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:02 PM                       
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Michelle, I'm sensing a good deal more despair in you than I felt before, on other conversations. I don't know how Bluducky is advising you, but I would also like to give you my own advice: get Curt out of your life, make a clean break of it once and for all. Postponing things is just going to make you feel more miserable, not to mention hinder you from making any real further progress in your life. It's over now anyway, so just accept it.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:32:38 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:06 PM                       
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Michelle, you can't ever give the guy the upper hand in the relationship. Once they do that, they lose all respect for you, things are over. Anyone can tell you that. Unless there's mutual respect involved, things just do not work out. You may be together, but trust me, you're not going to be happy about it.
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:33:04 pm
Baphomet

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:12 PM                       
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I think it's very interesting to see your reactions throughout all of this, Michelle, almost like a child would react. I'm getting the feeling that you aren't very experienced, also that you are, perhaps being emotionally abused. Aristotle is right this time, you need to get out of your current situation and find one that makes you truly happy. Delay that, and you only end up making yourself more miserable.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:33:21 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:29 PM                       
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And actually, I don't happen to agree with Aristotle or Baphomet. This may make you more confused than ever, Michelle, but I believe that you simply need some time apart, postpone things, not end them. Take some time, find out who you are. Let Curt take some time, find out who he is. If you're meant to be, it won't be long before you find out this. And I am certain that he has deeper feelings than what has been expressed here.

Men like to think they are immune to things, but get hurt very easily, I've found. And most don't know how to deal with their emotions, so they tend to shut themselves off from them altogether. They may not cry as often as we tend to, but often they feel things deeper than we do, yet are better at hiding them. You are probably the most personal relationship he has ever had with any person ever and I have no doubt that you will be the love of his life. Much as this relationship might have meant to you, in the long run, it will probably mean so much more to him. You're young, pretty, and you will fall in love again, but you probably won't have to.

The meaner he is to you, the more he likes you, the harder he pushes you away, the more he wants you to stay. He's working through something that you don't understand, and if you love him, maybe it's best to let things all out in the open, then see where they lay. Nothing worth having is ever easy, you know, and we often tend to value more the things we've had to work for the most.

Trust me on this. I have had some experience with men, and often the ones who are the most hostile towards you, who may never even utter the words, "I love you," are the ones who tend to love you the most, as well as need you the most.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:33:40 pm
 
Aristotle

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:38 PM                       
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I don't agree, Dawn. I think the tone of this has taken an unhealthy tone. And I think you're being overly romantic and telling Michelle only what she wants to hear by suggesting something postitive can still come of this. Usually I like your insights, or at least listen to them, this one I feel is way off.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:33:56 pm
Dawn Moline

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   posted 05-03-2005 10:47 PM                       
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You're entitled to your opinion, Aristotle. In the long run, Michelle will do what is best for her anyway. Everyone is so certain that he doesn't love her or never did. What can I say? I am just as certain that he did and still does. What is not to love? She is beautiful, sincere and entirely devoted to him, regardless of what happened before. What more can a man want?

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:34:18 pm
Norman Pounders

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Dawn, I think it is time that you told us about your own life here. If you're going to go about dispensing advice to confused young girls, I think they should learn just what sort of person they are getting it from. Like Calvin, I sense an underlying layer of immorality behind you that needs to be addressed.

Your friend Veronica was honest enough to share with us what kind of person she really is, when will you tell us what kind of a woman you really are, Dawn?

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:34:37 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 05-03-2005 11:00 PM                       
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Back away, Norman. No one owes you an explanation for their personal life at all around here, least of all Dawn. Nosy little bastard. Don't you have anything better to do with your time than sit there, harrassing people?
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:35:58 pm
Volitzer

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Whaaaaat!!!!! 

"The meaner he is to you the more he likes you." 

Dawn this sounds like the same mentality battered women say about their abusive lovers or what Ike said to Tina. (Turner)

"The ones most hostile towards you love you and need you the most."   

...and I'll bet they show their affection with gifts after a beating. 

Once anything is screwed up anything more done to it; it only screws it up even further.

Dawn you are less qualified to give dating advice than I am. I mean if you date men who are mean to you over guys that would actually cherish you, I think you need to stop writing movie scripts for the Lifetime Network and join a convent for your own survival.  Talk about Darwinistically-Challenged!!!!!! 

Michelle seriously give eHarmony a try from your state if not in NY or Alaska.

[ 05-04-2005, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 08, 2008, 01:36:43 pm
Anassa

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   posted 05-04-2005 01:08 AM                       
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Michelle
You said you wanted Curt back at any cost. Seems the cost you are paying is that of your own peace of mind and happiness. Is that what you want?
I have a male friend in exactly the same postion as you. He won his girlfriend back only last weekend and now he can't even glance in the direction of a woman without recriminations.
He is finding out that things will never be the same between them. Although he is giving it 100 per cent he is getting nothing back, and has to justify his every action.
You have more than made it up to Curt by taking what he is dishing out. If he can't move on then you should break up with him, this time with a clear conscience that you did your best to make amends.
Good luck

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:08:34 pm
Vlad
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  posted 05-04-2005 02:57 AM                   
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They may not cry as often as we tend to, but often they feel things deeper than we do, yet are better at hiding them.
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Conclusion:
Women are shallow 

As to the comment to Michelle:


quote:
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The meaner he is to you, the more he likes you, the harder he pushes you away, the more he wants you to stay
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I would not say that.
Not all men are like that.


quote:
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Nothing worth having is ever easy, you know, and we often tend to value more the things we've had to work for the most.
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Not really!


I agree with Aristotle you were rather off with that insight Dawn!


quote:
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What more can a man want?
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Men are possessive and do not want unfaithful women, cheating is considered to be an act of defiance.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:08:59 pm
Jade Hellene

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   posted 05-04-2005 04:02 AM                       
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You know, I think I'll take this one, too, since you'e on a roll and I'm anxious to find someone to fight with: 


quote:
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They may not cry as often as we tend to, but often they feel things deeper than we do, yet are better at hiding them.
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Conclusion:
Women are shallow
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Or, is it that men are just too big a cowards to ever show their emotions?
 


quote:
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quote:
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Nothing worth having is ever easy, you know, and we often tend to value more the things we've had to work for the most.
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Not really!


I agree with Aristotle you were rather off with that insight Dawn!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you and Aristotle are both wrong.

Both men and women are looking for a challenge when it comes to getting a partner.

Who really wants someone who kisses your a**?

We naturally tend to value something more if we buy it, rather than get it for free.


quote:
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quote:
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What more can a man want?
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Men are possessive and do not want unfaithful women, cheating is considered to be an act of defiance.
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Well, men are possessive, but the truth also is that they don't know what they want. When they get what they want, they are restless and already onto the next thing.

And, in the long run, who really cares what you want when it comes to fidelity?

Men are the bigger cheaters in relationships by far than women are. Some of you, little better than trained dogs, following a dog in heat. You're lucky we put up with you.

--------------------
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http://mediamatters.org/

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Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:09:43 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-04-2005 05:23 AM                   
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quote:
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Or, is it that men are just too big a cowards to ever show their emotions?
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You are deluded. Men don't need to show emotions at least not in public. If you do that it's a quick way to lose respect.
Whether you can accept it or not is irrelevant, but there are stereotypes that are a part of nature and the fact women are more emotional and feeling by nature and men more regulating is one such.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both men and women are looking for a challenge when it comes to getting a partner.
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Not really, this shows again how deluded you are.
The world we live in presents enough challenges. While a slew of today's generation worry more about their relationships, the world goes on and natural disasters such as draughts and floods will continue to provide for enough challenge to worry about. Your talk is typical of someone who's apparently not had to worry much about survival. I'm sure if you lived in a third world country you would care less about all that and worry more about the basics.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:10:09 pm
 
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-04-2005 05:26 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We naturally tend to value something more if we buy it, rather than get it for free.
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No. Not me.


quote:
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Well, men are possessive, but the truth also is that they don't know what they want. When they get what they want, they are restless and already onto the next thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not me. I know what I want and don't want.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Men are the bigger cheaters in relationships by far than women are. Some of you, little better than trained dogs, following a dog in heat. You're lucky we put up with you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like you've been around men that only want to get laid for too long.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:10:43 pm
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 05-04-2005 11:35 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jade sweety I aint stalkin you, are you stalking me?

Let me tell you this that was my first marriage , I left him ........I am not weak because I am a wife and mother, when I left my first husband I didn't need a feminist to tell me to.

I was 20 years old and I left him I didn't stay in that relationship, I left with two small children, who are now in their mid thirties....

lol I am an OLD bag..............hee hee

I have now been married to my second husband for over 30 years.

Jade
Can we bury the hatchet, I have nothing against you and I certainly don't want to stalk you , it is just that you make some very interesting comments , that I seem to be drawn to.

Jade I have 4 children 35, 36, 21, and 17, I think the reason we are butting heads is because I get the feeling you don't hold motherhood in very high regard.

I dedicated my life to my children,

lets share instead of argue jade...............I am a strong opinionated bull headed women and so are you let us learn from one another...............

how about it ?

[ 05-04-2005, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

--------------------
"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Posts: 10769 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:11:18 pm
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 05-04-2005 11:52 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jade I gotta give you credit YA got BALLS......ha ha, lol,

with quotes like these,
Or, is it that men are just too big a cowards to ever show their emotions?
and

Men are the bigger cheaters in relationships by far than women are. Some of you, little better than trained dogs, following a dog in heat. You're lucky we put up with you.

wow......you been hurt?

YOu don't respect men do you?

I am not stalking i am just carrying on a conversation.....

love ya.....

--------------------
"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 10769 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:11:45 pm
Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 05-04-2005 12:19 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a good book for you here jade,

http://www.layneredmond.com/drummer.htm

When The Drummers Were Women,

that is unless you have not already read it.

a little quote,

Cybele, the All-Begetting Mother, who beats a drum to mark the rhythm of life."

it is one of my favorite books ,

would you like to start a thread on Ancient mother?

--------------------
"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 10769 | Registered: Feb 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:12:06 pm
Michelle Sandberg

Member
Member # 2194

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 09:36 PM                       
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I would like to clarify something here: Curt has never abused me. Yes, he has been angry lately, and I tend to take it very hard, but the reason why I am taking it like I have is because he never used to talk to me like that at all, and it feels sort of new and awful. He's also a very nonviolent person and has never once laid a hand on me in the two years that we were together. I know it sounds like I'm always defending him, but he is really not a bad guy, most guys would be angry in this situation, and I feel I needed to clear some things up.

I also hope that people aren't using my example as an excuse to judge all women. I am a mess, and I'll admit it, but I don't think anyone should judge me as an example for how confused women can be, because most of the ones I know aren't like that at all.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:13:39 pm
Michelle Sandberg

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Member # 2194

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 09:38 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anassa, yes, I remember everything that I said, that I would do anything to get Curt back. However, saying that and actually putting it into practice are two different things. I'm more sensitive than I realized I was, and Curt has never acted like this before.

I'm not going to get into the detals, because I realized this is the wrong place for that, but some of the things said come right out of the blue and have been very hurtful.

Dawn, thank you for your wise advice. Course I wish you had been around to give it to me earlier, when I first started talking about this. I could have used hearing it then.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:14:02 pm
Michelle Sandberg

Member
Member # 2194

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 09:49 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today's women think they are liberated, but in reality all you are doing is satisfying loser men by going from relationship to relationship and loser men never care for more than unloading their seed, and the more you follow that lifestyle the more you'll end up with girls like Michelle, and the loser men will spread their seed and make more babies which carry their genes with their behavioural influences,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do I have to be used as an example of some kind of a failure here? I'm a person with some very real problems, it hurts to have people make light of them.

Curt was not a loser,he was the best man I knew other than my father. Like I said, I have only told all of you the bad things, which isn't fair to Curt. Once again, thanks for your support, everyone, but the bottom line is the person most at blame for everything here is me.

And the fact that things didn't work out between us are not a reflection on society at all, but simply on the two of us.
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Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:14:25 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-04-2005 10:11 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wise advice from Dawn, who in turn got her advice from Tina Turner.

Good God have you women no sense of direction or aspiration when it comes to relationships. 

 Standards it's all about standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

If you can't see that from the start all your relationships are doomed from the start. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:14:47 pm
Dawn Moline

Member
Member # 2173

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 10:31 PM                       
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Volitzer, I think you misconstrued what I was trying to say, or perhaps I wasn't as articulate as I should have been. I would never advocate for a woman to stay in an abusive relationship, then again it also doesn't sound as if Curt has been overly abusive to Michelle, just angry.

A lot of men have trouble dealing with their feelings, which is simply the point I was trying to make. It doesn't mean they don't love you, simply that they can't say it like others can.

I get the feeling you think that women deliberately seek out men who will abuse them over nice sorts like yourself. That isn't the case at all. No one ever sets out to be abused.

Unfortunately, one never knows what kind of person they are dating until later on, well after the veil of good behavior has lifted.

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:15:07 pm
 
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 10:50 PM                       
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do I have to be used as an example of some kind of a failure here? I'm a person with some very real problems, it hurts to have people make light of them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll leave you out of the discussion, Michelle, I happen to respect what you're going through, can't vouch for everyone else, though.

--------------------
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http://mediamatters.org/

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Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:15:35 pm
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 10:52 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ishtar, actually, I do hold motherhood in high regard. What I don't hold in high regard is idiots who want to limit women's roles simply to wife and motherhood. Women should have the same opportunties that men do. The ones they choose should be up to them.

As for "respecting men," well, the ones who show they're worthy of it (namely also treating women in a respectful manner) also have my respect. Sexist bigots don't wash with me, never have, never will.

Have I been hurt much? Not lately and certainly won't be around here.

--------------------
Sort through the media disinformation:
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:16:13 pm
 
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 11:03 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vlad, this response here is something I found particularly humorous:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or, is it that men are just too big a cowards to ever show their emotions? You are deluded. Men don't need to show emotions at least not in public. If you do that it's a quick way to lose respect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never cried in public personally, but if I ever see someone who is, I don't sit back and think, "gee, how weak that person is," and use it as an excuse to feel superior, I usually try to help.

What a goofy value system you have!

And I have also seen men cry in public, too, not just women.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both men and women are looking for a challenge when it comes to getting a partner. Not really, this shows again how deluded you are. The world we live in presents enough challenges. While a slew of today's generation worry more about their relationships, the world goes on and natural disasters such as draughts and floods will continue to provide for enough challenge to worry about. Your talk is typical of someone who's apparently not had to worry much about survival. I'm sure if you lived in a third world country you would care less about all that and worry more about the basics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong again, Vlad, I actually worked for the tsunami relief fund, and have also been very active in many other global causes, both social and political. However, it is not thing or another. People have it within them to worry about both global matters and what they might like in a mate, which is always in the back of someone's mind. It may be an either/or issue to you, but if you actually believe that, you're the one who is delusional.

--------------------
Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:16:33 pm
 
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 11:06 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We naturally tend to value something more if we buy it, rather than get it for free.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. Not me.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, men are possessive, but the truth also is that they don't know what they want. When they get what they want, they are restless and already onto the next thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not me. I know what I want and don't want.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, aren't you the exception. But you have different issues, too, Vlad, sexism mainly which put you squarely right back into the camp of all the men who's prioties you seem to shun, at least publicly.

--------------------
Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:17:28 pm
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-04-2005 11:42 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dawn, as I said earlier, if you're going to continue to council young women on their problems, as well as insist on making yourself such a presence here, I think it's time we found out what kind of woman you really are.

Here are a list of questions I've prepared for the sake of all the people that might be reading your material:

How many sexual partners have you had? If you've been keeping count, please let us know the number. 

Have you had an abortion, and, if you've had more than one, how many total?

Have you had any same sex relationships? If so, how many, and with anyone we might know?

Are drugs and orgies part of your lifestyle, Dawn?

Do you have any sexually transmitted diseases? If so, which ones?


Please answer the questions, Dawn, I am sure that many here would like to know all about your no doubt sordid liberal lifestyle.

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, I simply believe that people here should know what type of person you are before attaching any importance to your statements.

Dorian, you can answer the questions as well. I'm fairly certain you're safe on the abortion issue, at least, the others, not so certain.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:18:00 pm
 
Carolyn Silver

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Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 05-04-2005 11:54 PM                       
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Man, what a RUDE POST.

Dawn doesn't owe you any explanation of her lifestyle, Norman, you sure as s**t have told us very little about yours!

This does give me an idea for something, though. Would anyone mind it if I posted a sex survey here, or would you all get offended? That should tell us about our "habits." I'm looking for one that doesn't get too personal of course. Unlike Norman, I don't want to offend anyone!
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:18:21 pm
rockessence

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Member # 1839

Member Rated:
   posted 05-05-2005 12:46 AM                       
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Norman you are a ghoul....

--------------------
"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:18:46 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-05-2005 08:23 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michelle sweety,

(watch out for Pagan's jealousy in me calling you sweety now)


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He's also a very nonviolent person and has never once laid a hand on me in the two years that we were together.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't you think that's normal and to be expected? I mean the fact you state this seems to convey an impression you think it's exceptional you met such a guy...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today's women think they are liberated, but in reality all you are doing is satisfying loser men by going from relationship to relationship and loser men never care for more than unloading their seed, and the more you follow that lifestyle the more you'll end up with girls like Michelle, and the loser men will spread their seed and make more babies which carry their genes with their behavioural influences,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do I have to be used as an example of some kind of a failure here? I'm a person with some very real problems, it hurts to have people make light of them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used you as an example to show the emotional state you are in. I should have highlighted that more perhaps. I didn't have the correlation of Curt-loser in mind with that example at all. Yes now I realize it can be read from what I wrote but it was not the intention.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:19:21 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-05-2005 08:26 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of men have trouble dealing with their feelings, which is simply the point I was trying to make. It doesn't mean they don't love you, simply that they can't say it like others can.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of women do too Dawn.
The cliche that men hide their feelings is not true.

It's just that women more readily will use words and acts and whatever to show their feelings and men won't. It has nothing to do with hiding feelings, it's more a matter of not conveying feelings by communication when the situation is not 'fit' for it. Many women don't understand this or do understand it and use the stereotype of women being more feelings based to get what they want. Like girls fake crying etc.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:19:50 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-05-2005 08:30 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women should have the same opportunties that men do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's never gonna happen. What your trying to do is to egalize the gender differences and it's against nature and the universal principle. No matter what happens, there may come a time when creatures here are almost all unisexual, but there will always remain a bit of gender difference which will cause a resurge into a more pronounced global differentiation.
You are a woman and you will never be equal to men and there will always be differences even in opportunities.

To quote Mr Smith from the Matrix:

IT

IS

INEVITABLE

[ 05-05-2005, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Vlad ]
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:20:16 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-05-2005 08:52 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jade,


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sexist bigots don't wash with me, never have, never will.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course not, doing the laundry is a women's job 

While you do the wash, I wash my hands like Pilate 



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or, is it that men are just too big a cowards to ever show their emotions? You are deluded. Men don't need to show emotions at least not in public. If you do that it's a quick way to lose respect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never cried in public personally, but if I ever see someone who is, I don't sit back and think, "gee, how weak that person is," and use it as an excuse to feel superior, I usually try to help.

What a goofy value system you have!

And I have also seen men cry in public, too, not just women.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This just shows how little understanding of the man's world you have. I expected your replies. It really shows you don't get the 'male thing'.

[ 05-05-2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Vlad ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:21:08 pm
Dorian Gray
Member
Member # 192

Member Rated:
   posted 05-05-2005 09:10 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Norman Pounders:
Dawn, as I said earlier, if you're going to continue to council young women on their problems, as well as insist on making yourself such a presence here, I think it's time we found out what kind of woman you really are.

Here are a list of questions I've prepared for the sake of all the people that might be reading your material:

How many sexual partners have you had? If you've been keeping count, please let us know the number. 

Have you had an abortion, and, if you've had more than one, how many total?

Have you had any same sex relationships? If so, how many, and with anyone we might know?

Are drugs and orgies part of your lifestyle, Dawn?

Do you have any sexually transmitted diseases? If so, which ones?

Please answer the questions, Dawn, I am sure that many here would like to know all about your no doubt sordid liberal lifestyle.

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, I simply believe that people here should know what type of person you are before attaching any importance to your statements.

Dorian, you can answer the questions as well. I'm fairly certain you're safe on the abortion issue, at least, the others, not so certain. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't YOU answer the questions, douche? I am getting a little sick of your prurient interest in me, and I will no longer provide you material with which you can self-gratify.

--------------------
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Roald Dahl (Willy Wonka)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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Posts: 3787 | From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Aug 2000   

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:21:31 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-05-2005 08:22 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michelle sweety,

(watch out for Pagan's jealousy in me calling you sweety now)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn right, Vlad!

I'm not only jealous of you for calling Michelle "sweety," I'm jealous of her, too. Damn it, I want you both!

In fact, I'd like to screw everyone in this whole damned forum!

--------------------
╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:21:52 pm
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-05-2005 08:52 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women should have the same opportunties that men do. It's never gonna happen. What your trying to do is to egalize the gender differences and it's against nature and the universal principle. No matter what happens, there may come a time when creatures here are almost all unisexual, but there will always remain a bit of gender difference which will cause a resurge into a more pronounced global differentiation. You are a woman and you will never be equal to men and there will always be differences even in opportunities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get out much? We already have many of the same opportunities, and, in some cases, more. You are a sexist dinosaur and the new society has left you behind.

--------------------
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http://mediamatters.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:22:15 pm
 
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-05-2005 08:54 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sexist bigots don't wash with me, never have, never will. Of course not, doing the laundry is a women's job
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hardy, har, har.

But where's that leave you, Vlad? I have no doubt you're the one doing your own laundry.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This just shows how little understanding of the man's world you have. I expected your replies. It really shows you don't get the 'male thing'.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I get it better than you know, let's try it on for size: you're scared, easily threatened by women, and, for some of you, your **** might as well be hanging by a string.

Once again...care to own up to any of these observations, Vlad?

--------------------
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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:22:55 pm
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 05-05-2005 09:04 PM                       
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quote:
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Dawn, as I said earlier, if you're going to continue to council young women on their problems, as well as insist on making yourself such a presence here, I think it's time we found out what kind of woman you really are. Here are a list of questions I've prepared for the sake of all the people that might be reading your material:
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You piece of disgusting male filth. How dare you. She's one of the few genuinely nice people still at this forum and you won't be satisfied until you try to tear her down, drive her away. Dawn doesn't deserve any of your nasty sexist allegations, you rotten little monster, and in real life, is the most sincere and open person I know. She cares for people, genuinely tries to help them, and for her troubles, around here, garners nothing but insults from a lowlife like you.

Keep your meanness to yourself, you disgusting little pig and away from my friend.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:23:19 pm
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 05-05-2005 10:50 PM                       
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Pagan:

You should hold a class for women who want to be more cool and appealing when relating to men. 

You understand a male's minndset better than any other woman here. No offense intended to any other women here but it's just ashame I can only hang out with you here. You must be a blast at a party. 
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:23:44 pm
Volitzer

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Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-05-2005 10:57 PM                       
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Dawn:

I can get where someone emotional is attacted to someone withdrawn from their emotions being how opposites attract. 

That and I now understand what you were saying about guys being detached from their emotions and then not being able to communicate them effectively. 

Too often I've gone all out to impress some women only to have them turn around and fall for the biggest of users who have no intention of returning their love and are just trying to get what they can out of them. 

So if I get a little to jumpy in my response it is cuz this has been my main experience thus far... 

I'll keep you posted on how the eHarmony thing is going.

[ 05-05-2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:24:04 pm
Pagan

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   posted 05-05-2005 11:01 PM                       
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I AM A BLAST AT PARTIES, VOLITZER!!

I'd hold a class for some of them, but they're all taught to be such little ladies!

Personally, I'd like to party with Michelle.

(Michelle, sweety, I'll bet you I could make you forget about Curt! Michelle, by the time I was done with you, I promise you wouldn't be crying over Curt anymore, you'd be crying over ME, ME, ME!!!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:24:31 pm
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 05-05-2005 11:05 PM                       
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Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, Veronica. I think a reminder is in order, however, that your own moral standing around here is nonexistent. You've shown with your own words just how completely immoral a person you are, so I imagine lying also is something that wouldn't be beyond you either. You are not to be listened to or trusted.

And I'm sure it's only a matter of time before your friend Dawn is unmasked as a woman of little or no morals, too.

Hadn't you better get going? I'm sure there's someone out there that wants to sleep with you.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:24:58 pm
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 05-05-2005 11:07 PM                       
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quote:
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 Why don't YOU answer the questions, douche? I am getting a little sick of your prurient interest in me, and I will no longer provide you material with which you can self-gratify.
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Dorian, what's wrong little fella? Is your liberal lifestyle so filled with gay sex that you can't endure the spotlight? And watch your language, there may be children present.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:25:24 pm
Anteros

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   posted 05-06-2005 08:08 AM                       
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Good God... Norman's latest post has left me with a deeply disturbing image in my mind... that of the Vice President sitting at his computer furiously pounding the keys with one hand while the other lies on his lap furiously pounding something else... no wonder he took the name Pounders

{{{{{shivers}}}}}

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"A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of Powers we cannot perceive."

Rush --> "Freewill"

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Posts: 479 | From: New England | Registered: May 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:25:58 pm
Trent

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   posted 05-06-2005 11:42 PM                       
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quote:
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 Good God... Norman's latest post has left me with a deeply disturbing image in my mind... that of the Vice President sitting at his computer furiously pounding the keys with one hand while the other lies on his lap furiously pounding something else... no wonder he took the name Pounders
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So that's what the VP does in his private office.

Norman, you have too much time on your hands. And I'll bet they're feeling a little sticky, too.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:26:28 pm
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 12:22 AM                       
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Pagan:

I'm curious, and I hope I can word this as in-offensively as possible, how do you see other women??? Do you see them as men do with the curves and the soft skin and the radiant hair???

I'm not even quite sure what straight women find attractive in men. Let alone a lezbian mind-set.

If you're not mad could you give me some insight.

I mean your smooth complexion against your dark hair would turn a few male's heads.

 
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:27:09 pm
 
Norman Pounders

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Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 12:34 AM                       
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Dawn, I still await an answer to these questions:

How many sexual partners have you had? If you've been keeping count, please let us know the number.

Have you had an abortion, and, if you've had more than one, how many total?

Have you had any same sex relationships? If so, how many, and with anyone we might know?

Are drugs and orgies part of your lifestyle, Dawn?

Do you have any sexually transmitted diseases? If so, which ones?


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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:27:36 pm
Volitzer

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Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 12:43 AM                       
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Norm:

Unless your courting her I don't think it is any of your business. Besides how are you going to confirm what she's telling you is accurate or not???
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Posts: 7293 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:28:24 pm
Pagan

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   posted 05-07-2005 12:45 AM                       
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I'm not mad, Volitzer! I like talking about stuff like this, I actually have no hang-ups at all.

If you must know, women taste better than men. They're jucier, softer, and some of them have very nice soft curves and delicate white skin! Women are prettier than men. When I think of Michelle, I think she must taste like that, she's also very high strung, so I imagine she's also the kind of gal that can have multiple orgasms. In fact, read between the lines and that's probably the real reason she misses Curt

Now don't think I'm totally against men. Guys can be nice, too. But to me, at least, the difference between them is that women are like having a nice juicy steak, whereas guys, you're basically just getting the sausage!

Well, sometimes you like sausage!

But wouldn't we all rather have steak??

I know I do! :D

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=16


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:29:29 pm
Trent

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   posted 05-07-2005 12:48 AM                       
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You have a lot of nerve asking Dawn these kinds of questions, Pounders. If we were all in a bar together and you started that crap, I might be "pounding" you, a**hole.

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:29:53 pm
Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 12:50 AM                       
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Pagan...and they say my posts are offensive...what's the matter with you?

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 09, 2008, 01:30:20 pm
 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 05-07-2005 12:59 AM                       
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It's alright, Veronica and Trent, no need to defend me, I'm not even remotely offended.

Norman, of course you know that my personal life is none of your business. I suppose you could hire a private investigator to dig up dirt on me, but I certainly won't be telling you anything. Why don't you make up something and tell everyone it's the truth? That's what you and Calvin like to do anyway.

Cheers,

Dawn

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   
 
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=16


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:20:28 pm
Pagan

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   posted 05-07-2005 01:05 AM                       
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Normie, what's the matter with you, sweetie? Get offended much? Fine, don't come here!

You know, I used to think that Calvin was the most evil person around here. I've changed my mind...now I'm pretty sure that you are! You're more devious than he is, and you're way more hurtful...you're EVILLLLLL....

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 200


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:21:38 pm
Jennie McGrath

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   posted 05-07-2005 01:19 AM                       
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You know, I'm starting to think that, too, Pagan, in fact, I have my own theory on who Normie is. Other than a completely WARPED individual who seems to have come here with the express purpose on belittling women and acting like he's superior when he's actually this warped little toad, I'm guessing he's here on some other purpose that we don't yet know. Hey, maybe he's the real Dick Cheney! If so, he should be the last person always warning people about their "blue" language!
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:22:05 pm
Norman Pounders

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Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 01:22 AM                       
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Dawn, I'm disappointed you don't want to clear the air, so to speak. This is the perfect opportunity for you to dispel any rumors, present yourself as an ordinary girl to your "readership." I would think you'd want the chance to do that, most women in your position would. I can only conclude that at least part of what I said is the truth and you don't want to tell a lie.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:23:42 pm
Norman Pounders

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Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 01:30 AM                       
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Well, let's do this. Why don't I say how I picture you and you can tell me what is true or not. I see you as a spoiled upper middle class girl who has always been a bit careless with her body. I imagine, like your friend Veronica, you slept your way through high school and college, too. I don't see you ever having much in the way of parental guidance, sorry, Dawn. You fancy yourself a pseudo-intellectual type, so I'm guessing you slept with many of your professors in college. For some odd reason, I even see you as an ex-prostitute. Of course, that may or many not be fair to you, Dawn, so I'll just sort of leave that one out there and wait for you to knock it down. 

You barely weighed in on the abortion debate so I'm guessing you had one, most likely, two. People like Baphomet, Trent and Aristotle, who all arrived at the forum around the same time as you did, are most likely, in real life, not only friends of yours, but most likely your ex-lovers, too. Each of them rushes to defend you while you always just sit back, playing the damsel in distress. Veronica, of course, it goes without saying, is also your ex-lover. The way you two boost each other up, I imagine it was quite passionate. 

Your life is probably one of great self-indulgence, and I'm sure that you and your friends all have a good laugh at the expense of the people here, most likely Calvin and myself. Of course, you probably hate Christians. That's clear in almost everything you all do around here.

The one truly bad thing to happen to you was that you were probably raped back in college. You called it an "attack," let's call a spade a spade, it was a ****. You've alluded to it before, and I'm certain you give men the impression you're easy in real life. You're lost, confused, you've had a lot of men, and you're here searching for something that someone says that might give your empty and overly promiscuous life some meaning.

Care to answer any of these allegations, Dawn?

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:24:00 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 05-07-2005 01:36 AM                       
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You are way out of bounds this time, Mr. Pounders...Dawn's personal life is her own business, just like that of any other woman or man here, why must you always be so damned nosy?

[ 05-07-2005, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Carolyn Silver ]
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:24:30 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 05-07-2005 01:43 AM                       
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Oh, for crying out loud! I've never even met Dawn in real life, why are the two of you always so fixated on her? Leave her alone, Pounders, this is a discussion group, not an inquisition. People don't owe you any explanation, and you have no business fabricating a life story for someone in a vain, ridiculous attempt to disredit them simply because you don't agree with their opinions or like what they have to say. Leave her alone, leave us here all alone, and, at last, get yourself a life!!

[ 05-07-2005, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Aristotle ]

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:24:55 pm
 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 05-07-2005 01:49 AM                       
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Norman, as I said before, believe whatever you wish about me, it matters not to me. I will neither confirm nor deny anything you have said, nor shall I return any of your insults in kind. Think what you want, say what you want, to me, to me it remains unimportant.

Perhaps it's become time for yourself and Calvin to re-examine your hostility towards me..? I haven't had a cross word with either of you, best as I recall, and yet, you both remain constantly on the attack against me. You need not answer this question for me, perhaps answer it for yourselves.

You're going to get bored with all these attacks on me, by the way. Not only will I not fight back, after tonight, I intend to simply start ignoring all of them. Well, anyway, good night, all.

Cheers,

Dawn

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:25:32 pm
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 01:58 AM                       
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Well, a pity you didn't take the chance I offered you to better clarify what type of person you are, Dawn. A nice girl certainly wouldn't have the slightest hesitation about dispeling any rumors that she had had an abortion or telling us how the number of lovers she's had.

I can only conclude that some of these things are true. A pity, I had hoped to be proven wrong. 

Also, Aristotle, it's a pity that you haven't looked upon my contributions to this forum in the same manner that I look upon yours. Here, I thought we were all one big happy family here. How unfortunate that you view things differently. I am not only deeply hurt, but saddened to find your true feelings.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:25:54 pm
Aristotle

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   posted 05-07-2005 02:01 AM                       
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Idiot.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:26:20 pm
Ren

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   posted 05-07-2005 03:00 PM                       
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Hi Norman,
Being a (so far) neutral party here, I thought I'd try to explain something that may help you to understand us heathens.

There is one gigantic problem with the questions and opinions you voice here. You're making the assumption that we share your value system, but that we just aren't following it like we should be.

In fact I (and I'll just use myself as an example heathen, since others may or may not share my views) do not share your value system, and will not ever share it.

You "know" that premarital sex is wrong. I, however, am equally convinced that there is nothing whatsover wrong with it, unless it's forced or otherwise hurtful - no matter how many partners you have. You back your view with teachings from a book that you believe to be divinely inspired. I back mine with the facts of reality and reason, as well as my own instinct. These are much more convincing to me.

Your "knowing" that it's wrong, despite your fervent belief, does not make it so. Saying that it's the truth because the Bible says so makes a few more big assumptions - that the Bible is the word of God, has been interpreted and translated correctly, is applicable to today's society, and that I believe all of the above.

Telling people they are immoral is pointless if they are in fact not immoral according to their own values. Whether you personally believe them to be immoral or not is irrelevant.

In fact, I consider your behavior to be immoral and wrong. I've seen nothing but spite and condescension spewed from your keyboard, and that contradicts the most important rule that I follow in my life, which is to treat others with kindness and respect. But me calling you immoral is pointless, since you don't share my values. See how that works both ways?

How you treat others is what really matters (to some of us, anyway), and what's fascinating is that the person here who is the most evolved in that respect is also the one you are attacking with the most zeal. Despite your accusations, she's still a far better person than you are.

[ 05-07-2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Ren ]

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"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

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Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:27:46 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-07-2005 03:57 PM                 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pagan:
If you must know, women taste better than men. They're jucier, softer, and some of them have very nice soft curves and delicate white skin! Women are prettier than men. When I think of Michelle, I think she must taste like that, she's also very high strung, so I imagine she's also the kind of gal that can have multiple orgasms. In fact, read between the lines and that's probably the real reason she misses Curt

Now don't think I'm totally against men. Guys can be nice, too. But to me, at least, the difference between them is that women are like having a nice juicy steak, whereas guys, you're basically just getting the sausage!

Well, sometimes you like sausage!

But wouldn't we all rather have steak??

I know I do! 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Holy crow - is there anyone who would be dumb enough to argue with this logic? Let's face it, if it wasn't for the fact that men must bring something to the table, everyone would eat steak if they could.  ;)

I know I can't stop thinking of a nice tender & juicy one now that Pagan brought it up!   :D

Has anyone else notice that this place is turning into an angry old shrivelled up sausage fest lately... Stop scaring away the damn steak - you weiners!
   ;D

 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:28:19 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-07-2005 03:58 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Aristotle:
Idiot.
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I second that. Motion passes. 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:28:47 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-07-2005 04:04 PM                 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Anteros:
Good God... Norman's latest post has left me with a deeply disturbing image in my mind... that of the Vice President sitting at his computer furiously pounding the keys with one hand while the other lies on his lap furiously pounding something else... no wonder he took the name Pounders

{{{{{shivers}}}}}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anteros is the biggest crack up I know.... Brutally honest, and amazingly perceptive to boot.  


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:29:54 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-07-2005 04:15 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Pagan:
Damn right, Vlad!

I'm not only jealous of you for calling Michelle "sweety," I'm jealous of her, too. Damn it, I want you both!

In fact, I'd like to screw everyone in this whole damned forum!
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That would be a welcomed switch for me (personally)... I usually only get screwed in these rooms by the angry men, and immature boys... ;) I'm starting to feel like a visitor to Neverland Ranch. :D



[ 05-07-2005, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: 19Merlin69 ] 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:30:24 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-07-2005 06:32 PM                   
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You know that while preparing steaks, to soften them and make the meat more tender they often beat the hell out of it.

Stay the **** away from Merlin Pagan... he's got a wife and 4 daughters!
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:30:44 pm
unknown

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   posted 05-07-2005 08:01 PM                       
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Pagan

If your ever in the mood for some Polish Sausage,
I'll hook you up.

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:31:05 pm
Volitzer

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Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 11:04 PM                       
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Thanks Pagan:

In a way you make a lot of sense not like women I've known here who can't be bothered with men who are normal in trying to be their partner but if a user comes along boy they go all out for them.

Okay the soft skin part I get. However have you ever compared and contrasted with a straight woman as far as to what they find attractive with men???

I find it odd that there are hundreds of magazines telling women what's attractive and all men got is GQ. With me it's not about the clothes hell if you had a model with workboots, some Daisy Dukes, and a tank top that would work for me if the curves and muscle tone were nice.

However with women is it all Fabio and Mel Gibson???

Is it all in the face???

I just want to gain a female's mind-set here.

[ 05-07-2005, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:31:27 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-07-2005 11:13 PM                       
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I apologize to all the other ladies here. I don't mean to ignore you.

I mean any insight from you guys would be appreciated too.

It's just that with Pagan I can see into a woman's mind and gain a better understanding.
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Posts: 6967 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 13, 2008, 01:33:35 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-07-2005 11:16 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Vlad:
You know that while preparing steaks, to soften them and make the meat more tender they often beat the hell out of it.

I think we might be getting to the root of Vlad's dating (or lack thereof) problems...

Stay the **** away from Merlin Pagan... he's got a wife and 4 daughters!

Holy mackerl... I need you like I need a frickin babysitter. I'll eat steak if I want to, and there's nothing you can do about it... What - are you my cardiologist now? Besides, my wife likes steak too! Come to think of it, all of my little angels like steak.

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Just ignore him Pagan... My cholesterol is low enough - I can handle a little red meat in my diet. ;)  Hey - I don't suppose you've got a little mormon laying around as an appetizer do you?   ;D

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=16


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:22:00 pm
 
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-08-2005 01:16 AM                       
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Well, Ren, I read your post, the only one thoughtful I saw in this page today since most seemed concerned with Pagan's sausage vs steak preferences. At first, I was thinking, "well, there's a liberal who can finally make his case without usage of insults or profanity, and I was about to say 'well, done.' " Yes, you almost had me interested until I read this part:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact, I consider your behavior to be immoral and wrong. I've seen nothing but spite and condescension spewed from your keyboard, and that contradicts the most important rule that I follow in my life, which is to treat others with kindness and respect. But me calling you immoral is pointless, since you don't share my values. See how that works both ways?
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You're forgetting first of all, that I am not here to make friends and happen to view the many things that Dawn, Veronica, Pagan and many others write in just the same light. Case closed.

You happen to think that pre-marital sex isn't wrong. Well, that happens to be your point of view and you're entitled to it. You're going to hell for it, but you are certainly entitled to having that point of view. Simply making that suggestion now also places you squarely in the camp of those who's comments here aren't fit to be read by children.


quote:
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How you treat others is what really matters (to some of us, anyway), and what's fascinating is that the person here who is the most evolved in that respect is also the one you are attacking with the most zeal. Despite your accusations, she's still a far better person than you are.
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Evolved, or simply the most talented at deceiving each of you?

And good and evil are awfully subjective terms here, Ren. While I'll happily fit your liberal view, my own personal viewpoint of evil happens to be a woman who was, most likely, a deceitful, promiscuous, Christian-hating ex-prostitute, with the sin of abortion in her past. Gee, I wonder if there is anyone here who might happen to fit that description?

[ 05-08-2005, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: Norman Pounders ]

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:22:32 pm
Jade Hellene

Member
Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 01:32 AM                       
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quote:
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You know that while preparing steaks, to soften them and make the meat more tender they often beat the hell out of it.
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Well, Vlad, looks like you're a redneck!

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Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

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Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:23:05 pm
Vlad
Member
Member # 1187

  posted 05-08-2005 05:42 AM                   
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The bright and morning star doesn't need to beat to make flesh sweat and get wet.
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Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2002   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:25:46 pm
 
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 06:19 AM                       
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How has everybody been lately? I really DO wish to know...

(The conversation has stopped.. that can't be a good thing.. let's get it back, shall we?)

I have certainly missed our more thoughtful conversations, of which this was one... once upon a time... (if I wanted to talk about steak and sausages, I would visit the local butcher, I think)

As for myself, I am set to have lunch tommorrow with a microbiologist, a computer technician, and a housewife, so, that ought to be interesting, I imagine.

Keeping busy, obviously 


--------


Norman, what do you hope to achieve with these accusations and questions?

You know well that ALL people are sinners, so WHY do you attempt to draw the sins out of everyone?

To confess a sin to men is NOT going to take the sin away, but rather, one must confess to God alone. Therefore, what you are doing is in error.

You are entitled to your viewpoint, of course, but I wish to inform you that it is wrong, both doctrinally, and morally.

Perhaps it's time to align yourself more appropriately to your faith...

-------


Ren, Welcome. I am impressed with your posts, however, this impression may just be the initial "neutral position" that all new members possess until they show their true colours. (but I doubt it)

Needless to say, I hope you stick around.


------


Volitzer... poor Volitzer...

You know, some MEN understand women, too. I'm afraid that in asking for ONE woman's opinion of what is attractive in a male is shooting yourself in the foot. (it's not always the same criteria, as you may know)

I will give you a few well studied pointers, and some views from women themselves:

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001445#000000

you know, you yourself contributed to that thread. I am surprised you have learned nothing!

(many have said I have a certain "charm" with the ladies, if this is indeed true, you (and all) are welcome to contact me for more information...)

------

Pagan, your steak and sausage influence has turned this thread into a delicious circus.

No comment.


-------


Take care all, and have a wonderful Mothers day, all of you mothers... (and all you men, grovel before your queens, or regret it later)

Bonne nuit...

--------------------
So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:26:23 pm
zaphod

Member
Member # 2456

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 06:39 AM                       
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nice to hear from you agian blu but what happened to your avatar??

Yes, the steak and sausage theme is rather comical but it helps to lighten up the otherwise tense atmosphere here lately.. 
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:26:51 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-08-2005 10:27 AM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by zaphod:
nice to hear from you agian blu but what happened to your avatar??

Yes, the steak and sausage theme is rather comical but it helps to lighten up the otherwise tense atmosphere here lately.. 
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What Beeblebrox said..... 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:27:19 pm
Ren

Member
Member # 2307

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 11:38 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Norman Pounders:
Well, Ren, I read your post, the only one thoughtful I saw in this page today since most seemed concerned with Pagan's sausage vs steak preferences. At first, I was thinking, "well, there's a liberal who can finally make his case without usage of insults or profanity, and I was about to say 'well, done.' " Yes, you almost had me interested until I read this part:

In fact, I consider your behavior to be immoral and wrong. I've seen nothing but spite and condescension spewed from your keyboard, and that contradicts the most important rule that I follow in my life, which is to treat others with kindness and respect. But me calling you immoral is pointless, since you don't share my values. See how that works both ways?

You're forgetting first of all, that I am not here to make friends and happen to view the many things that Dawn, Veronica, Pagan and many others write in just the same light. Case closed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm forgetting nothing, Norman. That was the whole point of my post - that we all have our opinions, and that yours isn't automatically the only valid one.

Friendship isn't a prerequisite to treating people with respect. Someone who is nice to some people and cruel to others is not a nice person.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You happen to think that pre-marital sex isn't wrong. Well, that happens to be your point of view and you're entitled to it. You're going to hell for it, but you are certainly entitled to having that point of view. Simply making that suggestion now also places you squarely in the camp of those who's comments here aren't fit to be read by children.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, you're missing the point. You grant me my opinion, but then state as fact that I'm "going to hell". Hell is a belief that you have. My belief is that hell doesn't exist. The very idea is laughable - a loving God sending most of His creation to be burned and tortured for all eternity, simply for not adhering to a religion that has been around for a small fraction of human history.

You can stop with the whole "protect the children" angle. I know the intent is to appear the moral hero, but your other words do a good job of negating that. Besides, you're assuming that all children are being raised with your values.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you treat others is what really matters (to some of us, anyway), and what's fascinating is that the person here who is the most evolved in that respect is also the one you are attacking with the most zeal. Despite your accusations, she's still a far better person than you are.

Evolved, or simply the most talented at deceiving each of you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She doesn't have to deceive us. We accept her for who she is. Even if she fits every item on your list, those items aren't necessarily immoral to others, and we don't fault her for them anyway. In my opinion, she remains the better person, because of the way she treats others.


quote:
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And good and evil are awfully subjective terms here, Ren.
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You're beginning to get it. However, there's nothing subjective about treating others with kindness. I think that's a quality that transcends ideologies.


quote:
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While I'll happily fit your liberal view, my own personal viewpoint of evil happens to be a woman who was, most likely, a deceitful, promiscuous, Christian-hating ex-prostitute, with the sin of abortion in her past. Gee, I wonder if there is anyone here who might happen to fit that description?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's your unsubstantiated opinion of her. We're painfully aware of that opinion, so you can stop posting it any time now.

As for twice calling me a liberal, your black and white view of the world makes you label anyone who doesn't take your point of view as liberal. In fact, I'm pretty far from liberal. I agree with them on some issues, and with conservatives on others. No, people of all backgrounds are capable of disagreeing with you, Norman.

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

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Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:27:49 pm
Ren

Member
Member # 2307

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 11:51 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by bluducky:
Ren, Welcome. I am impressed with your posts, however, this impression may just be the initial "neutral position" that all new members possess until they show their true colours. (but I doubt it)

Needless to say, I hope you stick around.

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Thanks, bluducky. I am human, so yeah I'm sure that the more I type, the more my personality and opinions will come out.
But I try not to be a jerk

--------------------
"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people." - Jawaharlal Nehru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 53 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:28:47 pm
 
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-08-2005 04:17 PM                 
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Nice try all, but I don't think you are going to change Norm's opinion... You have overlooked the possibility that these aren't actually his views. In all reality, the fact may be that Norm simply prefers "whores" to real women, and he's only trying to locate a suitable date (unsuccessfully so far).

Consider the potential that, Norman - furiously pounding lil' norm, is what has brought this discussion to it's present location.

Maybe the problem is, Normie wants the women to appear this way in order to add to his own personal fantasy. It's possible that - he isn't creative enough to develop a "fantasy girl" that doesn't turn him down as well, whenever he "retires to the 'exercise room' for a 'workout'".

Who knows... It's just a theory. If that theory is valid, then I don't know what to do.



[ 05-08-2005, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: 19Merlin69 ] 
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:29:18 pm
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-08-2005 09:54 PM                       
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quote:
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As for myself, I am set to have lunch tommorrow with a microbiologist, a computer technician, and a housewife, so, that ought to be interesting, I imagine.
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Obviously, you're not lunching with any of the women here, Bluducky. With the exception of "housewife" that description certain fits no one here, so good for you.


quote:
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Norman, what do you hope to achieve with these accusations and questions? You know well that ALL people are sinners, so WHY do you attempt to draw the sins out of everyone? To confess a sin to men is NOT going to take the sin away, but rather, one must confess to God alone. Therefore, what you are doing is in error.
You are entitled to your viewpoint, of course, but I wish to inform you that it is wrong, both doctrinally, and morally. Perhaps it's time to align yourself more appropriately to your faith...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I might ask you what does one gain by soliciting immoral behavior, like Dawn does, or defending it, like Ren does? I might ask you the same question.

I'm getting the feeling from reading your earlier posts that you're somewhat more conservative than you care to let on. That your views might actually be closer to mine, Calvin's and Vlad's than you care to let on. Also, that you might like people like Dawn, Veronica and Michelle, but that deep down their lifestyles offend you.

Care to own up to any of these allegations?

--------------------
"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:29:44 pm
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-08-2005 10:21 PM                       
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quote:
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Friendship isn't a prerequisite to treating people with respect. Someone who is nice to some people and cruel to others is not a nice person.
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Sometimes, we have to be cruel to be kind, Ren, didn't your mother ever tell you that?


quote:
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My belief is that hell doesn't exist. The very idea is laughable - a loving God sending most of His creation to be burned and tortured for all eternity, simply for not adhering to a religion that has been around for a small fraction of human history.
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Well, aren't you in for the surprise. 

I'm sure you'll meet Dawn and Veronica there, say hello to them for me when you get there, won't you?


quote:
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You can stop with the whole "protect the children" angle. I know the intent is to appear the moral hero, but your other words do a good job of negating that. Besides, you're assuming that all children are, being raised with your values.
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Who's values are more acceptable, Ren, those of one who tries to be a good Catholic, or that of an overly promiscious ex-prostitute?


quote:
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She doesn't have to deceive us. We accept her for who she is. Even if she fits every item on your list, those items aren't necessarily immoral to others, and we don't fault her for them anyway. In my opinion, she remains the better person, because of the way she treats others.
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Well, as I have said earlier, that happens to be your opinion and you're entitled to it.


quote:
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And good and evil are awfully subjective terms here, Ren.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're beginning to get it. However, there's nothing subjective about treating others with kindness. I think that's a quality that transcends ideologies.
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Please see my earlier point on kindness, Ren.


quote:
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While I'll happily fit your liberal view, my own personal viewpoint of evil happens to be a woman who was, most likely, a deceitful, promiscuous, Christian-hating ex-prostitute, with the sin of abortion in her past. Gee, I wonder if there is anyone here who might happen to fit that description?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's your unsubstantiated opinion of her. We're painfully aware of that opinion, so you can stop posting it any time now.

As for twice calling me a liberal, your black and white view of the world makes you label anyone who doesn't take your point of view as liberal. In fact, I'm pretty far from liberal. I agree with them on some issues, and with conservatives on others. No, people of all backgrounds are capable of disagreeing with you, Norman.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First point, Ren, why should I stop posting my opinion of Dawn? I certainly don't see any reason to. I certainly don't object to any of you posting your opinions of me. Sometimes, I even happen to be curious what you liberal wits even come up with next. Those happen to be your opinions and you're entitled to them.

As for the whole liberal vs. conservative labels, social conservatives are the only true conservatives, Ren.I am aware that some of you happen to like the President's foriegn policy, but stand apart from him on social issues. The only true conservatives here that I have seen happen to be Brig, Smiley, Ishtar, Docyabut, Calvin, of course, and myself.

In my opinion, you fared much better earlier, Ren.
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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:30:14 pm
Norman Pounders

Member
Member # 2237

Rate Member   posted 05-08-2005 10:26 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice try all, but I don't think you are going to change Norm's opinion... You have overlooked the possibility that these aren't actually his views. In all reality, the fact may be that Norm simply prefers "whores" to real women, and he's only trying to locate a suitable date (unsuccessfully so far).

Consider the potential that, Norman - furiously pounding lil' norm, is what has brought this discussion to it's present location.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, no, Merlin, if you must know, I am a happily married man with three daughters myself and two sons. And, unlike you, I happen to take my marriage vows very seriously, you won't catch me flirting with Pagan or engaging in your little sausage debate.

I do admit to having some old-fashioned ideas about what a woman should be, what she should say, and how she should present herself to others. Sorry if they conflict with your more liberal view of the world.

--------------------
"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:30:40 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 10:59 PM                       
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quote:
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Stay the **** away from Merlin Pagan... he's got a wife and 4 daughters!
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Well, I’d be all up for the wife, Vlad, as for the four daughters, it would depend on what their ages were! :)

--------------------
╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 200


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:31:10 pm
 
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 11:00 PM                       
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quote:
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If your ever in the mood for some Polish Sausage, I'll hook you up.
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I’ll keep it in mind, Unknown!
What a sweet offer!

I think Volitzer has earned the first screw, though, don’t you?

Poor guy. :(

--------------------
╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:31:37 pm
Dawn Moline

Member
Member # 2173

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 11:35 PM                       
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Well, thank you for your defense of me, Ren. You're a genuinely kind and compassionate person and it speaks so well for you that you try to see the best in people and not the worst. The world needs more people like you in it, who stand up for the things the believe in, and try to help others. I am honored beyond words that one of the things you happen to believe in seems to be me. You are a truly beautiful man.

Bluducky, welcome back, of course, know that we all missed you. Not only that, some of us also wish you wouldn't keep going away. (joking there)

Volitzer's question supplies the perfect opportunity for us to change the tone of this conversation, back to love again. I'll weigh in on this briefly and hopefully Jennie, Stacy, Carolyn and some of the other women will weigh in, too.

What does a woman look for in a man?

Well, for me, at least, looks haven't been all that important. I don't have any particular type and no two men that I have ever been with in my life have ever looked alike. For myself, I have always been attracted to men older than me, I suppose it's because I think they can teach me something. Honor is important, and courage, too. I want to respect the man I'm with, so I want him to think the best for others and not the worst, look for strengths in people, and not their flaws. I suppose I want him to care for people like I do. I don't like prejudice, not only in men, or anyone. I like a lot of attention, but then I give a lot, too. I prefer to take the passive role in a relationship, but can lead if needed, too. I don't ever usually get angry by nature, and I have a hard time understanding people who do. If I like someone, I'll get as intimate as he wants me to be, and I've always believed that men and women should be a source of comfort to one another as opposed to engaged in any kind of competition.

Perhaps I've said too much already.

I hope everyone understands if I don't get too specific about the details of my life as I get the feeling they'll be used against me later.

--------------------
"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:32:11 pm
unknown

Member
Member # 2403

Member Rated:
   posted 05-08-2005 11:37 PM                       
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Pagan

Yah I guess so, I think he'll be happy to hear that.  ;)
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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:32:34 pm
Jennie McGrath

Member
Member # 2197

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 12:08 AM                       
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quote:
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Okay the soft skin part I get. However have you ever compared and contrasted with a straight woman as far as to what they find attractive with men???
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I’ll cut you some slack and take this one, Volitzer, if you don’t mind! Most girls are looking for Daddy, no matter what they say to the contrary. The most important thing for a girl, no matter what she says, is that a girl feel safe with a guy and like he’s really a decent guy, who listens to them, also doesn’t try to change them. Confidence is important, you want someone to be interested in you, but you don’t want them to be too eager. Don’t call a lot at first, be patient, and, above all, be nice.

I can’t tell you how important it is for a girl to be able to trust the guy she’s with. All the guys I have ever dated, the two of us started out as friends first. I knew them, they knew me and we both thought it would be interesting to hook up. I personally would never have a one night stand with anyone, like Veronica would. Then again, I was brought up more a tomboy, too, so I may not be the best one to ask. I also watch football and like beer, too.

Hope that helps out, Dawn!

[ 05-09-2005, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Jennie McGrath ]
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 14, 2008, 01:33:30 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 12:17 AM                       
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quote:
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Pagan

Yah I guess so, I think he'll be happy to hear that.
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But don't get discouraged, Unknown! Maybe you and Merlin can draw straws to see who goes next!

Heck, I'm not particular, Polish sausage, Italian sausage, even brachts, like Dawn says, borders don't mean a damn thing to me!

--------------------
╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005


http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000202;p=17


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:18:23 pm
Aristotle

Member
Member # 2244

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 12:23 AM                       
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Another thread once again takes a turn for the worse...

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:18:46 pm
Stacy Dohm

Member
Member # 2189

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 12:40 AM                       
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I’ll tell you what we find attractive in men, Volitzer, well, it’s sexual chemistry. Women want to have sex just as much as guys do, but, as women, we have to be more particular than guys do because the consequences can be quite dangerous. I don’t know what you’re talking about with that gang banger/abuser thing, I’m not like that and I don’t know any women that are attracted to those kinds of guys. Then again, I’m in Wisconsin and you’re in New York, so things are probably totally different here.

I think you’re looking for what girls see visually with a guy, but there is no one answer in that, like Bluducky said. For every woman, of course, the answer is different. I will tell you this, a girl knows pretty much upon meeting someone, whether she is going to let the guy sleep with her or not and no talking or persuading can usually get her change her mind. Shallow but true, looks are just as important for girls as guys, and yet, we also place more emphasis on who someone is than I think you guys do.

Personally, like Jennie, the most important thing for me to feel is protected by the guy I’m with. I like tall men, and they don’t have to be muscular either, just tall. Bigger hands are nice, I like expressive eyes. The visual part is only part of it, though, and not near as important as it is the character part ot it. There’s a fine line in everything we do. We want to be respected, but we don’t want anyone to kiss our a**. We want to be able to come to you with our problems, but deep down we don’t want you to come up with any solutions. Guys are more interested in sex, but what women really want is companionship and someone who won't shrink away from commitment and responsibility. That's the way I look at things, at least, maybe others are looking for different qualities.

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:19:17 pm
 
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-09-2005 12:42 AM                       
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 Thanks Pagan 

You just make so much sense here at times.

Dawn:

I'm glad that's what you set your standards to. That's more than what some women here in NY do.

Norm:

If you think the ladies here are bad, come to NY and you'd be shedding more tears than Tammy Faye Baker!!!  At least here the ladies go in with some noble intentions and aren't just being players or gold diggers out for what they can get. Like Kobe Bryant there, it's ashame that the floozy didn't get prosecuted for black-mail. I'm glad he was found not guilty, but many of these type are so professional at this that it won't be long until there's another "John" being dragged into court.


All:

I've experienced rejection and I'm not complaining about that, that's just a part of life. What drives me nuts is how attached some women can get to men who are lazy, users, dead-beats and lack any aspirations or the ones so abusive and crass that show little respect for them over someone who tries to treat them right. Of course Jennie if a woman's father isn't there for her I can see why that would cause a lot of problems for her I've seen some of that too.

So far so good with this one match at eHarmony.com, we really seem to be hitting it off... on-line anyway thus far. Oddly enough she's experienced much of the same from a female perspective.

Aristotle:

With hundreds of magazines and millions of models it isn't hard to figure out attraction for guys. I've researched this some and forgive the chuavanism in this next statement but... the hormone Estradiol is a key reproductive hormone. Women with larger cup sizes have more Estradiol in their system. So on a subconscious/hormonal level men can't help but to be  pigs 

With women I just wonder if there's an attraction to leaner muscle mass as for a sense of protection or what is going wrong when women stay with an abuser when Darwinism should say 1) fight 2) flight or 3) freeze but doesn't.

I wish there was at least one magazine that would explain a woman's attraction process or if nothing else.

[ 05-09-2005, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6823 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:19:40 pm
Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 05-09-2005 01:14 AM                       
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Thanks Stacy: 

Talking to everyone here I realized that NY has a bigger problem than I thought.

So it's qualities over the long haul that women are attracted to. I suppose if you put that in a magazine you would go broke. Not because of the idea but the limited way to package & market it.

So the reason engineers and scientist types bungle it is because they are used to coming up with solutions and they give one w/o being asked. I made the mistake of doing that to a match who had fibromyalgia at eHarmony. I just went into science mode and strangely enough she closed me out cuz she felt that the chemistry wasn't there. Okay that explains that. Kind of contradicts the whole "Knight in shining armor!" cliche.

 Now tell me you haven't learned anything here Aristotle. 
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Posts: 6823 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:20:04 pm
Metatron

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Member # 2413

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 07:13 AM                       
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Volitzer...

quote:
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So the reason engineers and scientist types bungle it is because they are used to coming up with solutions and they give one w/o being asked.
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quote:
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I just went into science mode
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quote:
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 Kind of contradicts the whole "Knight in shining armor!" cliche.
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Women don't want to be looked at like a "project" that needs "fixing"... makes them feel as though they were/are not good enough to begin with. I am married to an engineer, have been for nearly 20 years, and I understand that science mode...the need to find a solution and fix. In romantic areas "fixing" like a scientist tends to douse the spark of a relationship. If one continually looks at their partner as a basket full of pet projects (even though there are no hurtful intentions), it makes your partner feel consistently poorly about themselves. They don't feel beautiful and wonderful in your eyes... they feel like lab rat with nothing but items that need fixed. It does not negate the knight in shining armor... the knight just needs to make the damsel feel beautiful, not like a fixer upper. Never change the engineer in you... just don't pull the engineer out at every turn  I hope that makes sense.
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Posts: 209 | From: Stevens, Pa. | Registered: Apr 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:20:38 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-09-2005 06:55 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Aristotle:
Another thread once again takes a turn for the worse...
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I respectfully disagree with that comment... This is one of the few threads where no one is threatening people with uninvited entry into orifices or cuting and pasting reams of scripture (of any sort).

It's all good in my opinion.
:D
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:21:18 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-09-2005 07:10 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Pagan:
But don't get discouraged, Unknown! Maybe you and Merlin can draw straws to see who goes next!

Heck, I'm not particular, Polish sausage, Italian sausage, even brachts, like Dawn says, borders don't mean a damn thing to me!
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Here, here - I'm all for no borders, particularly between Canada and the U.S. - do they really think the Canadians could ever get sober long enough to actually attack us???

{{{JUST JOKING}}}

But now, back in reality... I really was referring to steak when we were discussing our proclivities earlier.  Far be it from me to see the beauty in "double-entendres", but I have to tell you - I really love a good rib-eye steak... Cooked over a flame - a little cajun spicing - (I take my well done).... Oh my - throw some taters and corn on the grill and I'm in heaven. Sausage has nothing on steak in my world, trust me.

Goodness gracious sakes alive, did you people forget so quickly that I have a wonderful, loving, and beautiful partner all my own? Maybe.... Nah - let bygones be bygones.

Sorry to disappoint all of you who thought I was flirting  I'm blonde - what did you expect??? :D

By the by, my daughters range from 1-10 years old.... 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:22:09 pm
19Merlin69
unregistered


  posted 05-09-2005 07:16 PM                 
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quote:
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Originally posted by Norman Pounders:
Well, no, Merlin, if you must know, I am a happily married man with three daughters myself and two sons. And, unlike you, I happen to take my marriage vows very seriously, you won't catch me flirting with Pagan or engaging in your little sausage debate.

Never assume that you know what's going on in my mind - and I will return the favor "in-kind." You saw flirting, but what you read - was a food debate. Good to hear about the family - we can always use more women in the world.


I do admit to having some old-fashioned ideas about what a woman should be, what she should say, and how she should present herself to others. Sorry if they conflict with your more liberal view of the world.

I wouldn't say they conflict, per-sey... Trample would be more like it. I just find it incredible to believe that you manage to maintain those views with so many females in your immediate vicinity. No need to apologize - we're all allowed our opinions; good, bad, or indifferent! I never hold grudges anyway - I hope you don't either."


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:D  -Merl- 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:22:34 pm
Stacy Dohm

Member
Member # 2189

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 08:36 PM                       
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Volitzer, we really aren't looking for anyone to solve our problems, for reasons that Metatron outlined nicely. Just being a good listener is often enough. I think I pretty much gave all the advice I have last night, except to also say that relating to who each woman is is very important. I honestly don't blame you for feeling a little frustrated, if I were a guy, I might feel that way, too.

You got to realize that we're way ahead of you guys on the relationship angle. It's pretty much all we do, so naturally we'll be up on you on that thing. If anything, some of us are probably too good at it and are always looking for signs to see if it's going too good or too bad!

--------------------
"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:22:58 pm
 
Jade Hellene

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Member # 2321

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 08:40 PM                       
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Volitzer, when I first read your latest posts, I have to admit to feeling pretty offended. I was about to tell you that there is no one visual type that interests all women. We don't have a "Pam Anderson," or something like you do. Then, I realized, you're a scientist and that this is the only way you can break things down and understand them correct?

Well, women are probably the least scientific thing you'll find and if you're going to try and use science to explain us, you'll just wind up feeling more confused.

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Sort through the media disinformation:
http://mediamatters.org/

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Posts: 719 | Registered: Feb 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:23:20 pm
Jennie McGrath

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Member # 2197

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 08:57 PM                       
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quote:
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Of course Jennie if a woman's father isn't there for her I can see why that would cause a lot of problems for her I've seen some of that too.
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No, no, no!!!

Volitzer, a girl isn't just looking for someone to be her dad just cause she's having trouble in her life, a girl is usually looking for traits her dad might have in every guys she dates!

A woman's first male role model is natually her dad, so she can't help looking for some of those same qualities in any guy she might be hooking up with. No matter if her dad is nice, a jerk, or indifferent to all her needs. Whoever her dad is, that's what she is subconsciously looking to find. Where some get into trouble is that some girls have some seriously messed up Daddies! Maybe those are the kinds you've been running into in New York.
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:23:47 pm
 
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:14 PM                       
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quote:
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Goodness gracious sakes alive, did you people forget so quickly that I have a wonderful, loving, and beautiful partner all my own? Maybe.... Nah - let bygones be bygones.

Sorry to disappoint all of you who thought I was flirting I'm blonde - what did you expect???

By the by, my daughters range from 1-10 years old....
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But, MERLIN!!!

You said you were going to leave your wife and kids for me!!!

You were just using me all this time, weren't you??

I feel so hurt! I feel so scorned!! Is this how you really treat women?? Is this how you really treat us??

What about our little love child I now have growing inside me?? What's to be done about little Merl, the littlest Merl of them all..?

Now I found out the real reason you're pro-choice!!

I've been knocked up, left alone and now no one wants me!!! WAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:24:07 pm
bluducky

Member
Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:14 PM                       
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Volitzer, if you want better luck with the ladies, send me a PM...

(I must be doing something right, if at this very moment, I have more than a handful of women chasing me... (even during my... problematic times  ))(and no, I DON'T go looking for them, they find ME)

I guarantee you now, Venusian: You're not a deadbeat.

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:24:27 pm
bluducky

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Member # 1880

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:18 PM                       
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oh!

My avatar... it seems the link where it was hosted has died...


This means I need a new avatar..

what would you prefer? my eyes? my lips? another owl? cartoon character? otherwise?

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So live your life and live it well, Theres not much left of me to tell, I just got back up each time I fell...

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Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:24:51 pm
Veronica Poe

Member
Member # 2172

  posted 05-09-2005 09:21 PM                       
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quote:
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Volitzer, a girl isn't just looking for someone to be her dad just cause she's having trouble in her life, a girl is usually looking for traits her dad might have in every guys she dates!
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And I totally couldn't disagree with you more on that, Jennie McGrath. My father was a weak and loathsome man who didn't stand up for anything in his life, least of all me. Oddly, the only person he ever managed to stand up to was me, who probably needed him the most, and I never got anything out of it. I was his daughter, and he always made me feel like a tramp, even before I actually was one.

I have NEVER looked for qualities I saw in my father in any man I ever let go to bed with me. He is the LAST person I would want to know all over again. As I have said, I see him in Calvin and it sickens me all over again.
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Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2004 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:25:29 pm
 
zaphod

Member
Member # 2456

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:23 PM                       
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ROFLMAO

Pagan you're a riot...just what this place needs.

:D
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Posts: 741 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:26:04 pm
Jennie McGrath

Member
Member # 2197

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:35 PM                       
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Oops! Veronica,

I stand corrected!  :)

A lot of girls are looking for Daddy, not all!

Veronica, if I had your dad I wouldn't be looking for him again, too!

Me and my dad happen to be pretty close. He taught me to never be afraid to speak my mind, so I always do!!!

[ 05-09-2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Jennie McGrath ]
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004  |


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:26:56 pm
Pagan

Member
Member # 2369

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:47 PM                       
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quote:
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Pagan you're a riot...just what this place needs.
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But...I'm not joking this time!!!

I need a strong shoulder to cry on, tell everyone what a cad my little Merlin has been!!

Bluducky, are Michelle and all those many other girls now done with you, sweetie? Cause, I guess it's my turn now!!!

If Bluducky isn't around the only one left is Vlad, and he likes to beat his steak!!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Posts: 467 | Registered: Feb 2005   


Title: Re: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future (Original)
Post by: Aristotle on May 15, 2008, 01:27:22 pm
zaphod

Member
Member # 2456

Member Rated:
   posted 05-09-2005 09:53 PM