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Atlantis => Atlantis: Theories & Speculation => Topic started by: Qoais on March 04, 2007, 12:38:12 pm



Title: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 04, 2007, 12:38:12 pm
Hi
I can see I have to do some spell checking as my fingers don't seem to go as fast as my brain!
I made a personal hypothesis for this business of Atlantis, and since this heading seems to suit I thought I would explain what I worked out, and perhaps get some discussion on it.  I'm quoting myself from another forum and in one sentence, this is the root of my theory:

Quote
The point is, the core of the story is correct. But it's a precis - a condensed version- of the whole history of the Atlanteans - not just about one specific city with rings - not just about a specific place- not about any specific TIME, until he mentions the time of the battle.
......and even that is being disputed.

Plato was a historian and telling this story, although it was intended as an entertainment for his peers, in honor of the goddess, and was also supposed to tell the story of heroism of the Hellenes, he spent more time talking about Atlantis than he did about the Greeks.  He also leaves out important factors that should have been included when telling a great war story.  He tells nothing of the direction the battle came from, he doesn't tell how long it lasted, and he gives no details of the battle itself.  Strange, since it was to glorify the Greek Army in the most important battle in their historical past. 

Now we see that the story came from Egypt, from an old priest who basically guarded precious knowledge.
We see from the Bock Saga, that since the beginning of time, the Aser people trained up a "rememberer" who every so often was sent out into the world to re-teach to the tribes of Atlandis what they had forgotten from their past, as the ice age sent them in all directions.

We know there were people of Atlantis in most of northern Europe, including England, Spain, France, Germany, Turkey, Russia, as well as Libya, Italy, etc.  The "oralist" sent out to up-date the people, apparently did just that, and then moved on to the next group.  He used what the Bock Saga called the "sound system" to communicate, (please read the Bock Saga if you haven't already, it's amazing) and somewhere in the Med. area, someone made an effort to write down the message the "oralist" had given.  Because our languages cannot do justice in expressing what the "oralist" could with the "sound system", we have a condensed version of the history of Atlandis, recorded by the Egyptians.  The priests might have deliberately  given the story about the battle to Solon, knowing he was famous for his intelligence and writings, and that he would record it, and thereby keep the history alive.  Perhaps the priest who told the story had some insight into the future and knew the Egyptian copies would be lost.  He was right, whatever the inspiration, the story comes to us from Solon afterall.  (Smart priest)!

If you read the Bock Saga, you will note that they used the ring (circle) always, as it is the root of their sound system and their undertanding of living in harmony with the earth - using electrical impulses from their bodies to join with the electrical impulses of the earth, creating a closed circuit - circle.  It was the manner used to train the oralist for his career of "up-dating" the tribes he visited.

So regarding Plato's story as we like to call it - I concluded that in essence - it is a history of Atlandis back into the mists of time.  Atlantis was not originally a city.  It was a land.  At-land-is - "the land is ice".   Later when the people were displaced, each tribe built a city, so there will lots of citys buried somewhere that have the circle theme.  Somewhere along the line, some of the tribes broke away from the original teachings and developed "ego".  Set themselves up as being better than others and became "gods".  (Plato mentions this) Each tribe devloped according to their environment, so we have some that were farmers, others developed mining, architecture, etc. 

In this light then, when we read Plato's story, we can see that whoever was the attacking the Greeks, had ORIGINATED on an island in the ocean, they HAD been spiritual in the beginning, lost their divine part, and became base.  Whoever the people were, they were powerful and we see that they had control of Europe to Tyrrenia already, and also of Libya as far as Egypt indicating that they were a wide spread people. "This power" did indeed come from outside the straits, as it originated in the North. The story covers the HISTORY of Atlantis, and does not indicate specifically WHEN anything happened.  We are given wonderful descriptions of these people and their original lands, (long since gone under the ice in the first ice age) and moving into the time of the battle, we are looking at a specific tribe that attacked Greece. 

For better understanding - let's take away the story of the battle for a moment.  We find then, nothing more than a wonderful history related about an incredible peoples.  How they spread out, how they evolved and developed, who their gods were, how intelligent they were, etc. etc.  Now having a picture in our mind of this incredible civilization, we put the battle back into the story and hear that for some reason (unprovoked) the Greeks were attacked by them.
The story doesn't say from where the attack commenced.  We assume it was from an island because our mind cannot get past the fact that Plato gave this description first, however, remember that it's an overview of their history, but like I said, he's not describing the place the attack came from.    Now although the Atlanteans were supposedly great sailors, at the time of the battle, the Greeks were not.  So we have to assume this battle was on land.  Also, Plato says "that afterward" as in after the battle, "all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth" and Atlantis suffered the same fate.  But at the same time?  No - because Plato is again taking the timelines out of context and is merely explaining the fate of both nations.  The fate of the Atlanteans original home sunk beneath the ocean yes - but long, long in the past.  Plato does not specifically say when.  All he says here, is that there was a battle that the Greeks won, and right after the battle, while the men were still in battle formation, the earthquake happened and they sank into the earth.  He fluffs out the story a bit by saying the Greeks had stopped the onslaught, but really, it would appear that the earthquake was quite effective in preventing the attack from reaching Egypt as was supposedly intended.
If you watch a movie that has flashbacks, you'll understand this better.  The story is given in today, but there's flashbacks to a previous time.

Now we're left with the question still, which tribe had governance over Libya and Europe and where was their home base?

I have followed a trail that has been trod by many before me, and using other writings besides Plato, I can give a theory on that also. ;D



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 04, 2007, 12:43:46 pm
Oh dear - I don't know what happened.  I was trying to post under a different heading (Hypothesis) and I guess my time ran out and when I re-logged in, I created another heading altogether.  Hope nobody minds.  Perhaps this thread could be moved somehow to where I was trying to put it?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Proteus on March 04, 2007, 06:01:32 pm
Hi Qoais,

Looks fne to me here, where were you intending to move it to?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 04, 2007, 07:35:19 pm
Atlantis - Location Hypothesis - doesn't matter tho - can stay here if it's ok.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 04, 2007, 07:52:48 pm
If this is going to stay here, can the name be changed?  It was a mistake really and if I'd known it was going to open a new thread I'd have called it something else, as there is already a heading with this name.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Morrison on March 04, 2007, 09:08:18 pm
Hi Qoais, if you want to change the title, all you have to do is hit "Modify," and you can rename it anything you like.  Hope that helps!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 11:25:04 am
Since it's so much easier to cut and paste, than to retype everything, I've copied my posts from another forum:

One must also use their own common sense.  We don't have a time machine to go back and actually see it all, but I think we do have to realize that Plato was talking about two different time lines. The time when the gods first came, and then the period of time near the end, when the last cataclysm ocurred and the majority of Atlantis sunk. There is no indication of the length of time in between the beginning and the end. Therefore, we do not know when the land broke up, and became islands and peninsulas. Even the scientists are in disagreement as to when this happened.
There are layers of salt in the Med. Scientists specualte how they got there. If the Med. was connected at one time to what we call the Indian ocean, before the Arabian peninsula raised up, then the Med would naturally have a lot of salt in it, since it was joined to the ocean eons ago. When the earth was young, the land rose and fell, rose and fell. When it fell, the water covered it. Leaving salt.
The priest himself explained to Solon that the area had been flooded many times, whereas the Greeks only remembered one time.
Nor does Plato say that the city of Atlantis was destroyed in the last event. He says the ISLAND - meaning the part that was left after the other catclysms.

"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea."

The city was probably destroyed earlier. After losing their city and so much land, it makes sense that they would then try to spread to the continents to subjugate the peoples there in order to gain more land for a growing population. The island probably could not grow enough food to support the population and they needed to expand

When Nikas proposed his theory in Robert Sarmast's forum, we had a bit of fun imagining an island in the shape of an elongated peanut, stretching from the shores of Spain, to Crete.
Now I don't know if Egypt's borders were always where they are now, so I don't know where exactly, the borders of Libya were. Anyway, IF Atlantas was this large island in the Med, it would explain it's close proximity to other lands that they had taken over, the easy accessability to others lands for trade, the "routine acess" to Athens, the space for such a huge population, and after the disaster, the isolation of Crete which maintained the high culture for another 2000 years. We see pottery from Crete showing the acrobats playing with the bulls. I THINK, but can't remember positively, that this was the only place we find this pottery. Or perhaps some is in areas close to Crete. Feel free to remind me! PERHAPS, we only see this pottery there because it is the location where the bulls were kept and cared for.

Not to argue with Georgeos scientific studies, I just thought we should maybe look at an overall view of the story itself, using common sense to connect the story with what all arms of science have discovered so far.

In Diodorus Siculus - it says that the Amazons first attacked the Atlanteans - so I'm assuming they must be fairly close by. The Atlanteans, after a pitched battle which the Amazons won, surrendered their cities on terms of capitulation. Queen Myrina of the Amazons, established friendship and founded a city to bear her name in place of the city she had razed. The Atlanteans apparently then asked Myrina to invade the land of the Gorgons, a folk which resided on their borders - and she did so.

Now I'm assuming The Amazons lived on one side of the Atlanteans, and that the Gorgons lived on a different side, otherwise the Amazons would have attacked THEM first.

From Wikipedia regarding the land of the Gorgons.



quote:
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Their home is on the farthest side of the western ocean; according to later authorities, in Libya. The Attic tradition, reproduced in Euripides (Ion), regarded the Gorgon as a monster, produced by Gaia to aid her sons the giants against the gods and slain by Athena.
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To me, the farthest side of the western ocean would mean of course that it's the farthest piece of land right on the coast of Libya, which is now Morocco. So - if the Atlanteans were neighbors of the Gorgons, they too would be on the western shores. So you see - we can find logic for both locations - the western end of the Med, or the middle. The more comparisons we can make that work on a logical scale, the more solid becomes a theory. OR Plato included some reality and some imagination into his story.

I realize he said "which is NOW called".
I was just saying that the whole landmass had already been named, and whatever country was named after Eumelus, in the language of THAT country, his name was Gadeirus. Georgeos has assured us that in any of the histories, Gadeirus always was where it is now. Spain. Therefore, Atlantis faced/was near/beside/etc.etc./ Spain. Or more specifically, modern day Cadiz. But if in history, the whole Iberian peninsula was called Gadeirus, it leaves it open as to which Side of Spain, Atlantis was "facing". The "extremity" of the land Atlantis faced Gadeirus near the Pillars. The extremity is the area farthest from the middle. So, the southwestern extremity would mean that Atlantis was in the ocean, and the southeastern extremity would be in the Med. Both "extremities" would still be near the Pillars and "facing" Spain.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 11:32:26 am
 I always believed UNTIL I read Plato.(That Atlantis was an island in the Atlantic) Now I'm wondering, after reading in this forum for days on end, if Atlantis WAS in the North!!!!
Just for fun, when we were debating this on Sarmats's site, I cut and pasted Malaysia into the Atlantic west of Spain. I figured it was about the right size, but it wasn't exactly the shape I was trying to create. I'm not at all very good with this picture business, but it was all in fun.

When I said maybe Atlantis was in the north -I was referring to the fact that Felice Vinci has interpreted Homer differently, showing that his stories and poems could have been located in the North. Therefore, perhaps, Plato's Atlantis is in the north also. (especially if the Bock Saga is true, and Plato has woven the history of Atlantis into the tale)

Now let's pretend that Georgeos is right. 
To corroberate his theory, I'm trying to figure out logically, how the Amazons could attack the Atlanteans. Their home was on an"island" which, because it was in the west, was called Hespera, and it lay in the marsh Tritonis. This marsh was near the "ocean" which surrounds the earth, and near to the Atlas mountains. The island was of a great size and full of fruit bearing trees of every kind, but grain used not at all because it had not been discovered among them. Soooooo - this is waaaaay back.
From Wikipedia:
According to the Sicilian Greek poet Stesichorus, in his poem the "Song of Geryon", and the Greek geographer Strabo, in his book Geographika (volume III), the Hesperides are in Tartessos, a location placed in the south of Iberia (Spain). The Euboean Greek poet Hesiod said that the ancient name of Cádiz was Erytheia, another name for the Hesperides. Others[citation needed] situate the gardens of Hesperides in the region located between Tangier (formerly Tinjis) and Larache in Morocco.

Now I'm just going to type in a bit from Diodorus here to get a picture of the Amazons.

The Amazons, then, being a race superior in valour and eager for war, first of all subdued all the cities on the island except the one called Mene, which was considered to be sacred and was inhabited by Ethiopian Ichthyophagi, and was also subject to great eruptions of fire and possessed a multitude of the precious stones which the Greeks call anthrax, sardion, and smaragdos (there's a little footnote telling about these gems)and after this they subdued many of the neighbouring Libyans and nomad tribes, and founded within the marsh Tritonis a great city which they named Cherronesus after it's shape. (foot note beside Cherronesus - Peninsula; presumably the city lay on a ridge of land running out into the marsh.
Setting out from the city of Cherronesus, the Amazons embarked upon great ventures, a longing having come over them to invade many parts of the inhabited world. The first people against whom they advanced, was the Atlantians, the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities.

Just a bit more 
Now the queen of the Amazons, Myrina, collected an army of thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, since they favoured to an unusual degree the use of cavalry in their wars.

I don't know what shape a Cherronesus is, so don't know the shape of this "peninsula". But I do know (I think!)  that the Atlas mountains, and Libya are on the Southern side of the Straits, and that thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, are not going to swim the straits to attack the Atlanteans in Cadiz/Spain/Iberia/ or an extremity thereof. Are they?

Therefore, it is logical to me that whatever island the Amazons lived on,it seems to be similar to the island of Atlantis in it's riches and food stuffs, (although supposedly Atlantis had other foods as well), it was near to or possibly joined to the island of Atlantis somehow since they were attacked first, and also logical therefore, that Atlantis must be on the same side of the straits as Amazonland since the Atlas mountains are on that side.
So -to correlate with your theory - whatever time in history the Amazons attacked the Atlanteans,A) the Strait of Gibralter would have had to be closed, OR B)Atlantis was on the same side, OR C)the Amazon warriors were fabulous swimmers, and swam across the strait to where your tombolo was.
I vote for B

Eureka!!!!!!
Cherronesus - continent island - translating to peninsula. A perfect description. A piece of land that is an EXTREMITY of a mainland, that is almost completely surrounded by water, but technically still a part of the mainland because it has a little neck attaching it. NOT nesos that COULD BE an island or a river mouth or wetlands, or, or , or but an acutal word in Greek that means exactly what it's supposed to!!!! . So - one would think that if the Greeks actually had a word for this type of land - Plato would use that instead of nesos.


There's more than one culture of Atlantis??????? Georgeos - let's not use desperate measures here. We KNOW the Atlanteans spread out and took over lands, we already know where THOSE lands are - it's the Atlantean land we're trying to find.

The account does not accredit the Amazons with sailing as it stresses they preferred FOOT soldiers and horses. Try to use logic. An army, attacking another country in those days, could not just pull up to their docks, casually unload 33,000 warriors and 3000 horses, without SOMEONE noticing. As a ploy in war, this would be senseless. The dock sticks out in the water - they would be trapped before they could get off the ships. No, I don't think the Amazons went by ship.

As for swimming across, they would die of hypothermia before they got there, and if they lived, they'd be so cold as to be almost catatonic.

But if you notice, the account says that Amazons did attack some Nomadic tribes in LIBYA, THEN built their city of Cherronesus. Therefore, they are on the Libyan side of the straits. THEN next, they attacked the Atlanteans. Their city also sunk into the water, just like Atlantis. So if we say as Georgeos says, that the Amazons attacked "other" Atlanteans, those other Atlanteans would still have had to be on the Libyan side.
Now if we could figure out where this city called Mene was which was inhabited by Ethiopian Ichthyophagi we'd be getting warmer.

A friend sent me this info:

"The Greeks did believe apparently that there was an Ethiopia in the location we usually place it , but also Ethiopia in the far west of Africa ,Mauretania ,that way . It was so called because of the black inhabitants .Ethiopia basically means 'Land of the burnt-faced people'.
As for the Ethiopian Ichthyo***i mentioned by Diodorus , they r black fish-eaters. I think i recall that a legend about Perseus or some other Greek hero who saved Andromeda ,had him go to the far west of Libya ,to Ethiopia to save the princess"

So now we have another little clue that mentions Libya again. So if the Amazons were on the same island as the Ethiopian Ichthyophagi, and THEY were on the side of Libya, and the Atlanteas were neighbors of the Amazons, then they were ALL on the side of Libya. UNLESS THE LAND BRIDGE WAS CLOSED AND THE AMAZONS CROSSED OVER. However, the Amazons continued their journey along the south side of the Med not the north side, which makes sense if you're starting out from the south side already.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 12:35:09 pm
And what would "blessed" mean to people in those days? A place that had an abundance of food, water and the beauties and abundance of nature. Also perhaps, a "god" may or may not have lived there. In everything I've read so far, all the lands in the west lying on the shore of the ocean were "blessed". Nice beaches you know!

Georgeos, if you know Plato so well, and understand all the meanings of his writing, tell us why he did not use the word Cheronneus? This would be the word a writer would use to describe a certain type of piece of land,a tombolo, because he is being SO descriptive. The point is not whether he used it - it's why didn't he use it? The point is - the word is there for him to use. He COULD have used it, for a much better description. BUT HE DIDN'T. Because that's not what he meant.

Plato did not mention the Amazons, because that was not the story he was telling. That does not mean to say he didn't know about them. Just because he did not mention them, does not mean they didn't exist.

Diodorus says they lived in the NORTH of Libya next to the Atlas mountains, right where the mountains reach down to the sea.

You know what Georgeos? I think you're worried that if we put all the pieces of the puzzle into perspective, it might turn out you're wrong. You discount all the other great famous writers, you discount all the other professional interpreters, you use feeble excuses to explain the stories of other writers - and you look on Plato like he's the only one in history to ever write anything. He WAS human you know, and could himself have made mistakes. To say nothing of the fact that Solon could have made mistakes as well. So - to PROVE Plato was correct - is of course - the whole point of the search for Atlantis - like in an investigation by the police, they do not use just one witness to solve the crime. We must find all the information possible, and fit the pieces together so we can prove the existance of Atlantis at all.

You were not there when Plato wrote the story, nor when the priest told Solon the story. So how do you KNOW what Plato's intent was? How do you know for a fact that it wasn't just a story? Just because someone said it was true, doesn't mean it was. People tell fibs all the time.

Another aspect that to me is up for controversy, is that it is generally accepted that the Pillars of Heracles are pillars, or something that resembles pillars.

First of all was it Pillar (singular) or was it Pillars - plural? We usually accept plural.

So - quoting from Diodorus again, - this little blurb about the end of the Amazons.

"But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the REGIONS TO THE WEST AND SET UP HIS PILLARS IN LIBYA"

These Pillars of course commemmorating his great deed of wiping out the Gorgons and Amazons. Now we understand it that the Amazons headquarters/homeland was on the NW tip of Libya, (that would be the SOUTH side of the strait), and we read that the Amazons travelled through Libya, Egypt, Arabia, etc. - all of these being on the SOUTH side of the Med. So - if Heracles wiped these people out - and put up pillars to tell the tale, LARGE pillars no doubt as they are supposed to be a marker, THE PILLARS ARE IN LIBYA.

If you read the MYTHS of Heracles, you will find that the deeds may be beyond belief and exaggerated. The story that tells of how the Pillars came into existance was that Heracles was going to steal something from somebody on an island in the ocean, but due to the fact that there were mountains in the way, he struck the mountains to open a passage, but he died and turned to stone and the myth states that the parts of the mountain left standing are his legs - pillars - which held him up.

Now we know from the statues and stuff, that Heracles was no where such a giant, but WAS very strong.In fact Heracles no not a giant at all, but was extremely well built and muscled. So the myth of the mountains being his legs, gets mixed up with reality, in that there were actual pillars put in place by Heracles.

So when it comes to the Strait of Gibralter, do we have two pillars - or one? (Tall skinny mountains) because we need two to hold Heracles up. I don't think he was hopping all over the known world with one leg, and no matter how gigantic he MAY have been, he was not such a giant that one leg would be 8 or nine miles from the other leg when he turned to stone. (The distance across the Strait). Even if the strait was only say half that, how big would he have had to be to spread his legs that far? Giants in those days, were considered from say 7 to 10 feet tall.

Another question would be - where did the priest get the story to start with? 9000 years before Plato, someone had contact with the Egyptians and related this history. I'm not going to say that people did not have boats back then, (because I don't know that for a fact), but I would say that if they did, they were not exactly sea going vessels. In my own humble opinion, if one was traveling in those days, one was likely walking. (and the only person I've ever heard of that walked on water was - you know who)
If we take a hike from Egypt to Morocco, and followed the coast line, we would end up in what is now I think the Province of Tangier. This too, is a "nesos" really, because it is a piece of land sticking out into the water from the mainland and surrounded by water on 3 sides.
So if we were walking up the center of this piece of land towards the Strait of Gibralter, what would we be facing? Spain. Now I said before, that if you were looking at the Straits from the North or the South, and if the "Pillars" were on the East or West, then the Pillars would appear to be on the side of the two necks of land that reach out towards each other. Therefore, if Plato did say that the pillars were "on the side of" or "beside", then whoever was telling the story was telling it from the perspective of North or South. Because either way, the pillars would still be in "front" of the Strait, whether you were going in or out. If you're coming in, the pillars are in front of you, and if you're going out, the pillars are in front of you.

So if this whole story took the perspective from land, I am trying to show that the LAND was on the southern side of the Strait. All the stories so far agree with that as regarding the Amazons, and the Gorgons being neighbors to Atlantis.

Georgeos, I think one thing you cannot say has been displaced, is that the sun always sinks in the west, not the north. The land of night was beyond wherever the sun went down.

1)Was Gadiera always Gadiera? I had searched this out and found that no matter what language, Gadiera had never been displaced.

2)Where are the Pillars of Heracles? Right where they always were - in the mouth of the strait. The straight does not have a mouth on the west side. In the myth, Heracles did not get past the strait to the island he was seeking, therefore, the pillars (his legs) have to be somewhere on the inside. If you do a close-up of the strait on Nasa Worldwind, you will see (at least I believe this) that the strait was narrower in times past. As a matter of fact, it almost looks like walls were built for a narrow passage.

3)Island. Since I always thought Atlantis was an island, and had never heard this theory of a tombolo before or knew that nesos could mean all those things Georgeos said, I had already accepted that Atlantis was an island.

This is the only dispute left - was Atlantis an island or was it Spain?

In all my "ramblings" I am trying to use logic to determine which. I have no idea if the Atlanteans had a "circle" cult or not. Plato didn't say that. He said the princes all got together every 5 or 6 years to sacrifice a bull. He didn't say the commoners did this. This ritual was reserved for the princes of Atlantis and their ruling king.

One of the problems that may not be super important, but then yet again it could be - to determine the time frame - is when the strait of Gibralter opened. Plato's story talks about the mists of time when Atlantis first existed, and then aeons later, when it sunk.

I do believe Atlantis was west of the straits and attached to the mainland.

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The question was "where else in the world do we have bull fighting"?
In Spain. That does not prove anything. If Atlantis and the mainland were once joined, and then separated, the acropolis with the temple on it was cut off from the mainland. Now over hundreds of years, the people would remember that a bull was sacrificed and gradually, the custom changed from what it was originally, to something altogether different. This has been proven to happen all over the world. All it does, is further substantiate any theory that claims Atlantis was in the west.

Since Georgeos is being so specific and following Plato word for word, where does he say that the Atlanteans practiced bull fighting? Those bulls were highly prized and to throw spears into them and torture and taunt them would be sacriligious. They were being offered to the Gods for blessings for the people. Do you think the Gods would shower blessings on a people who brought them a mutilated sacrifice?

The "gods" were actually on earth in those days. A super-being that was part divine. Where did the divine part come from? From creatures sent here by God, or creatures from another galaxy? At this point, it doesn't matter. All that matters is that they had the power to either help the humans who were worshipping them if they were satisfied with the sacrifice, or to destroy them if they weren't.

The last known god that I know of, to have supposedly communicated with, and interacted with humans, was the "god" who led Moses. NOT such a long time ago considering the age of the world.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 12:47:45 pm

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   posted 03-01-2007 10:11 PM                       
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I think the issue regarding the actual pillars is not so important as to what they represent. Now from the quotes below, I take this to mean that the reference in both cases, is to the strait itself - but so that the reader (or listener) could identify WHICH strait, it is denoted as being the one called by the Greeks, The Pillars of Heracles. "the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles" In other words it's very specifically calling the straits by name. The same way we today say the Stratis of Gibralter - they said - The straits of the Pillars of Heracles.



quote:
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there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles;
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He clarifies this by repeating the description in this way:

quote:
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for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour
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So the sea inside the straits =Heracles-Gibralter - is the Med. which is only the size of a harbour compared to the sea outside the straits which is the ocean.

So if, whenever we come across the words Pillars of Heracles - instead - we say the Straits of Heracles, perhaps this would avoid confusion. ???

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And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.
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Now lets do this again. In the Timeaus, the Pillars of Heracles are REFERENCING the Strait of Heracles today Gibralter - (just to make things easier) - so then we get:
- who received as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Straight of Gibralter - FACING Iberia.
An extremity of a piece of land is called an extremity of that piece of land. It is NOT described as FACING ITSELF- it is not facing it's own body. An extremity is stretching out, reaching AWAY from the main body TOWARDS whatever the body is FACING. The extremity of the land of Atlantis was reaching AWAY from Atlantis TOWARDS whatever country Atlantis was facing - Spain. The country that was named after him. Gadierus.

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2)Where are the Pillars of Heracles? Right where they always were - in the mouth of the strait. The straight does not have a mouth on the west side. In the myth, Heracles did not get past the strait to the island he was seeking, therefore, the pillars (his legs) have to be somewhere on the inside. If you do a close-up of the strait on Nasa Worldwind, you will see (at least I believe this) that the strait was narrower in times past. As a matter of fact, it almost looks like walls were built for a narrow passage
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Let's return now to Heracles and how he wiped out the Amazons and set up his pillars.
WHY were the Straits of Gibralter called the Pillars of Heracles?

Repeating myself - quoting Diodorus - "and the race of Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the WEST and set up his pillars in Libya" To destroy a nation the attack is usually make on it's nerve centre, the pulse of power, which for the Amazons was their city of Cherronesus - the city they had built on a finger of land sticking out in the water. So - Heracles destroys the centre of power, puts up pillars to commemmorate his deeds and carrys on. The pillars are obviously at a spot close to the Straits of Gibralter since the Straits are named after him. He did NOT get past the Straits,to the island he was seeking, therefore, if he was attacking the Amazons and putting up pillars in their land, he was doing in on the shores of Libya, near the Straits. Cherronesus, sank into the water, along with his pillars. Cherronesus was placed where the Atlas mountains came down to the sea, on a piece of land sticking into the sea. If you look on Nasa WorldWind again, and follow the mountains as they curve around and go back to the sea, there is a spit of land that continues on underwater.

Ok - we have people beyond Tyrhenia in the west.
It is my contention that there WERE Pillars at one time, marking the spot of Heracles deeds. Because these pillars were erected next to the Straight of (Gibralter) in those days, the Greeks called it the Strait of The Pillars of Heracles - or the Strait of Heracles to depict which strait they were referring to. The actual pillars have sunk into the sea with the city he razed - Cherronesus.
So - Atlantis was in front of the Strait of the Pillars of Heracles - next to/beside Iberia. The extremity of land stretching out from Atlantis cloest to Iberia was ruled by Atlas' brother Eumelous. In the language of the country next to/beside this extremity was named after Eumelous - in the language of THAT country - Gadiera.

If the Bock Saga is true, then whoever in this forum said "we are all Atlanteans" would be correct. But I suppose it brings us back to which branch of the Atlanteans Plato was talking about that was attacking the Greeks. I've said before that I figured Plato's story consisted of different time lines. When he says that the Atlanteans were - "in the beginning more divine and cared not for riches" I do believe he was talking about way way back when the Atlanteans were still living in harmony with the earth. Then the story moves to a different time of when they started building cities and bridges and temples. I think part of the mistake that's been made (for me anyway) is that the timeline is farther back for the beginning than what we first thought. Plato had the story correct, but it covers millions of years, not thousands.
The Bock Saga tells about the chosen ones who were to go out in the world every 1000 years or so to update the peoples of the world or -re-inform them - of what they knew in the beginnings. They travelled to the inhabited areas, gave their lecture and moved on. The Egyptian priests may have first heard the story from one of these travelling oralists.(is that a word?) But the Bock Saga also explains that there are not enough words in any language that could be as expressive as the original language called "the sound system". WE all know how many times the story was handed down and we don't have to go into all that again. The point is, the core of the story is correct. But it's a precis - a condensed version- of the whole history of the Atlanteans - not just about one specific city with rings - not just about a specific place- not about any specific TIME, until he mentions the time of the battle.

The reason everyone is looking for Atlantis is because Plato did not say where it was. Right? Because it wasn't anywhere by that time. It was everywhere.(gathered into one for the battle) The Atlanteans had spread out, diversified. So Georgeos would also be correct in saying that there were "different" Atlanteans in Spain - there were some in Libya, some in Crete, some in Egypt, a number in the northern areas of Russia, etc. etc. BUT ORIGINALLY - they came from outside the straits. No wonder all the facts didn't fit the story of the moment in time the attack took place. All the facts can't fit in that one time frame. Plato does not say either, how the Atlanteans attacked the Greeks. I asked everybody I talked to, did they march, did they come by sea, did they fly in Vimanas? Why didn't Plato state specifically how the attack was made? Why hide this important detail when he was telling about a great and wonderous deed accomplished by the Greeks?
All he said was - that the Atlanteans had control of lands without and within the straits and were powerful. He said that at the time of the attack, the Greeks held the Atlanteans off.
He said, that AFTER that - both the Greek army and the island of Atlantis were lost in earthquakes. We have been saying this did not necessarily mean at the same time. However, if it isn't at the same time - why would he mention the two items together? Why would all the warlike men be lost at once unless they were all together? If they're all together, they would be in a war. So - we're back to - WHERE did this battle take place?

We know there were Greeks all over the Med. areas, and we know there were Atlanteans all over the Med. areas, as well as Russia and lands north of Greece. We're told that the Atlanteans attacked Greece. We're told both were destroyed in an earthquake. Plato doesn't bother to tell us if this battle was on land or sea. Did the Greeks have warships 11,000 some odd years ago that were so maneuverable they could reign supreme over a mighty power? I don't think so. Please inform me if I'm wrong on that.
Please excuse me for using Wikipedia for reference!
"The Mediterranean was the source of the earliest historically verified seaworthy vessel, the galley, developed before 1000BC, and development of nautical technology supported the expansion of Mediterranean culture."

So we have to go with a theory that says this battle was waged on land. If we DO take it that Atlantis was sunk in the same cataclysm that took the Greeks, then the particular island that the Atlanteans occupied, had to be in the same general area as Greece. Somewhere where the seismic activity was so great, it swallowed an island of Atlantean inhabitants. NOT NECESSARILY THE ORIGINAL ISLAND FROM THE MISTS OF TIME - but one that at that time had Atlanteans living on it. Plato did NOT say from which direction the attack came. All he said was, the power grew originally from outside the straits. And so it did. BUT we're now talking about a specific spot in time.
Now if you look at Atlantis in the Black Sea, they have a theory that the Greeks were marching out to meet the Atlanteans, along a dry sea bed,(Or was it the other way around?) when the earthquake took place. This wouldn't be quite right, if as Plato says, AFTERWARD (after the battle). It seems that Greece and that area of the Black sea lie on a shared fault line. Was the attack coming from the North end of the black sea?





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 02:03:02 pm
So if we lift out the one level of the story JUST as a description of Atlantis and their people out of the story about the battle, we are actually seeing the history of Atlantis being handed down just as intended to those who were supposed to understand that part of the story.  They were told that at the beginnings, they had everything they needed to live in harmony with the earth.  They built their cities to specific measurements and these measurements were also in the story.  The story is telling the current generation, how to divide their land up the way it was in the beginning, for harmony.  They are advised how to rule themselves and how they SHOULD be conducting themselves.  It is warning the future generations what will happen if they continue in setting themselves up against each other.  They will be eventually destroyed - as in the battle with the Greeks. 

THEN we have the battle showing this came to pass.  Although the story is being told from the angle of heroism for the Greeks, that is just "mode of presentation" you might say, for the purpose of the festival and entertainment and glorifying the Greeks.  Does it matter where the the battle was?    There's no great description of the battle as there usually is in war stories, nor who the Greek hero would have been in this battle, etc.

I think this sentence causes the most of confusion and this is the most complicated part:

"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island."

To me - he is not referencing the ORIGINAL land the the Atlanteans from the mists of time, he is referencing one they had taken over in the spread of their culture.  The point has been made that they have control as far as Tyrrenia - this would include Sicily and malta, since they also had control of the continent to Egypt.  If the sea was lower, the opposing armies could have met just on the shores of Eastern Italy. 
THE SEA IN THOSE PARTS, would be the part of the sea surrounding the base from where there was a city on an island, somewhere close enough to Greece, that when the earthquake hit, both lands suffered.  He IS at this point I believe talking about the same incident.  The subsidence of the island caused passage to the sea to be blocked.  The SEA in those parts, not the OCEAN in those parts.  If the particular island referenced in this disaster was in front of the strait of Gibralter on the ocean side, he  likely would have SAID ocean.  He IS bouncing back and forth in the story sometimes relating to the beginning times, and sometimes to the end times. It is the end times we are trying to locate.

So to have a city on an island, within the Med, wherefrom either an army or a navy could attack it's neighbors, (Egypt and Greece at a blow) and when it sank, it could block passage to the ocean, and that Greece would lose it's army as a whole at the time of the cataclysm, then the Atlantean city being described at the end of times, would have had to be Sicily or Malta.  So basically, it doesn't matter to the battle story where the Atlanteans originated.  It matters where they ended.  We can see they had lands on the western coast of Libya, neighboring the Amazons and Gorgons.  We're told this power, which CAME from outside the Pillars -in other words orginated outside there - possibly one of the "Kings" of the land next to the Amazons - grew until it had subdued the western end of the Med.  Since they had contact with the people in the Eastern end of the Med., and did trading with them etc, is it not reasonable to assume they had a city at the outmost contact point of the Med? Sicily/Malta.  They could have had a city there for a long time, as when the landbridge between Libya and Sicily sunk, (according to the Urantia Book :)), it wiped out more civilization in that area than any other catastrophe. 





 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 05, 2007, 02:34:05 pm
So - now that I've picked the story apart - and said "if" this and "if" that - I would like to put it back together again for the benefit of our purpose - to locate the city from which the Atlanteans attacked the Greeks.

- The people of a northern land were forced south by the ice age - Atlandis
- These people had knowledge of how to live in harmony with the planet (as well as knowledge of other things)
- These people of the Land of Ice - called by us Atlanteans - spread out over a vast area
- The Atlaneans built their cities to an original plan laid out in circles (rings) for specific reasons.
- Over millennia, they lost their "divine" side and became base and egotistic
- Some of their eventual lands included - The western coast of Libya, Libya, Spain, and Tyrrenia, parts of Europe and Asia
- They became a powerful force in this particular area and planned on taking over more of their neighbors
- The neighbors in particular were Greece and Egypt and Asia
- The leader of this power came from his "domain" outside the Straits(perhaps at one time part of Libya on the west or and island neighbor of the Amazons) and became the ruler of the Atlanteans
- This leader intended to subjugate the rest of the peoples of the Med. (being conceited enough to think he could do it all at once)Must have had a magnificent army! (or advanced weapons :))
- To launch the attack on the eastern end of the Med all at once, I assume he has prepared his army (and possibly navy) for the attack from a point closest to the area he was attacking.  He's not going to leave a back door open for a rear assault.
- After the battle with the Greeks, and before the Greeks could return to barracks, the earth opened up and swallowed the army and the city.
- The sinking of the city caused the passage to the ocean and the western end of the Med. Sea. to be filled with mud.  (The ocean was navigable - meaning if you could get to it to navigate it but this was no longer an option for Eastern Meds. peoples therefore they couldn't navigate it)
- Therefore - the city in question had to be at Malta or Sicily.
- Since there are most unusual ruins in Malta, and they seem to stretch out where the Libyan land bridge used to be, it is reasonable to assume that Malta was the location of the particular city refered to in the Criteas.

THAT'S MY THEORY ;D

HAVE AT IT!






Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Stacy Dohm on March 07, 2007, 10:05:12 pm
Hi Qoais,

How do you figure Malta as the central city?  Sure, it's close by, but too small and none of the geographic features match Plato. Maybe it was a port.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 08, 2007, 11:33:12 am
Hi Stacey
Not the central city.  But the city where the attack was launched from. They were going to take over Greece, Asia and Egypt "at a blow".  This does not mean they were going to gradually take over these countries, it means all at once.  Since they already had power up to Italy and Libya, they wouldn't go back outside the straits and re-start all over again. 

I'm not saying my theory is correct because I myself can punch holes in it.  I was just trying to use logic.  If we pretend that Malta is the main base, (remember there was a landbridge to Africa way back) and the Atlanteans came from the North - came across that land bridge, and started taking over the areas WEST of Malta, the scenario still works.  The water seems to have been shallower in the Western Med, and perhaps they Started from the land bridge, and moved west.  That would also explain how the Amazons, who lived on the west coast, could attack them first.  Therefore, Plato could have meant that ORIGINALLY they came from an island in the Ocean (described by the Bock Saga).  He may have been jumping back and forth in the story like flash-backs in a movie.  I believe the story was more intended as a History of Atlantis than a tale of derring do by the Greeks.  There's just not enough information about the battle - names, places, numbers of warriors, that sort of thing. Atlantis supposedly broke up several times, and by the time the priest got the story, it may have been an island, if it originally had been a peninsula.
In light of scientific discoveries, I'd say Malta fits better.  Regarding the building of ships, that is.  Plato says "the Power" that came from outside the straits - perhaps again, meaning the ORIGIN of the power, but he doesn't say the battle was by ship, and we have no scientific findings of ships so far back in the past. 

So to attack Greece and Egypt - two different directions, - at the same time - they had to have armies on both sides of the Med.  Now the Med was probably lower then, but even so, they're not going to swim all that distance.  Now Plato does say that the Atlanteans had ships in their harbors, and mentions triremes.  (Another discordant note in Plato if we try to put all the facts in one place). Whether science is right on the time line or not - triremes weren't developed until about 1000 BC.  Therefore, if Atlantis sunk with triremes in her ports, she didn't sink 9,000 years before Solons time.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 08, 2007, 07:56:08 pm
If you go to Georgeos Diaz-Montexanos's website, you'll see some pictures he's posted there.  All are interesting, but the one with the pyramid and the rings underwater are rather facinating.  I typed in the address of the picture here but it didn't work. 
http://picasaweb.google.es/GeorgeosDiazMontexanosSAlbum

As some of you know, Georgeos's theory is that Atlantis is Spain, and that the city of Atlantis was on a "tombolo" = spit of land - stretching out from Spain, across the front of the Striat of Gibralter.  Supposedly, this picture is from somewhere around Spain.  The address above is not really a link, it's just to say where I got to when looking for the picture.  If you go into the forum of Atlantis Rising, Heading Atlantis, sub-heading Possible Pyramid next to a Circular Construction before the Gibralter - first post - click on the photo


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Chronos on March 09, 2007, 11:23:29 am
Hi Qois,

I actually try not to go much to Georgeos' site, he has far too many pop-ups for it to be functional.

Quote
The people of a northern land were forced south by the ice age - Atlandis

This comes from the Bock Saga, are you a believer in the theories put forth by lor Bock?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 09, 2007, 03:31:02 pm
Hi Chronos
I've only read about the Bock Saga recently, but it fits with other things I've studied.  Is there somewhere I can study the whole thing?  I've only read what's on "The Official Bock Saga Site". 
I have a very open mind, maybe too open, in that I take all things in, mull them over and see if the pieces fit.  I've always believed in Atlantis, although I have no reason for doing so.  In other words, it's always been "there" in my head, since I was young, but I never studied anything about it until a year ago.  I think the Bock Saga explains a certain sequence of events that I believe over Plato's story. I do believe he heard of such a place, and heard they were a mighty power - mainly because they were so long in practicing their way of life and it stayed with them, enough after the tribes broke up.  It would not surprise me that underground vaults are found, and more of the story comes to light.  Whether the man smokes MJ or not is irrelevant.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on March 09, 2007, 05:50:59 pm
www.bocksaga.de

www.bock-saga.com


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 09, 2007, 10:51:32 pm
Yes - that's where I was reading, but I thought maybe there was more.  Was thinking of sending for the tapes to learn the sound systems.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on March 10, 2007, 01:54:59 am
Neither of those sites were the one you mentioned above...


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 10, 2007, 02:44:28 am
Hi Rock
I am sorry.  You're right and thank you very much.  I will go there now.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Stacy Dohm on March 10, 2007, 11:44:53 pm
Hi Qoais,

I actually like your idea of Malta being a base that Atlantis used to attack the Greeks and the Egyptians. Plato does give the figures of the armies involved in the battles, but I do see his history concerning the tale end of Atlantis history.  I imagine the reason they invaded in the first place was because their own land was dying out.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 11, 2007, 01:20:39 am
Hi Stacy
You're probably right about needing more land.  If they had an idea that there would be another earthquake they'd be looking to get out.

Actually tho, from what I tried to figure out logically, Plato's Atlantis, as we are interpreting it - didn't exist.   Have you read the Urantia Book?  A lot of people nay say it, but one absolutely has to have an open mind in these things.  Have you read Zecharia Sitchin?

What I'm trying to say is - people have been trying to keep the history of our world and humanity the best way they can.  At first it was orally, and then we developed writing.  Then we develop science and we get the theory of evolution.  We read the Bible and it says God created us.    From everything I've studied, I have concluded - and it's my theory - that the are all correct.

The people Plato is describing and the description of the land of the Atlanteans, is not an island or a peninsula off the coast of Africa.  What Plato has done - or maybe I should say - that what Plato was - was only one in a long line of people who repeated for posterity, a history of the earth and it's peoples.  (the battle is a footnote is all)

The Urantia Book gives a most detailed history of our planet, tells about the different universes, God the Creator, the seed of human development and evolution being planted on earth, (encoded into the original DNA) and tons of other information that no one person could make up even if they were paranoid skitso.

Then - if we look at Sitchin - he more or less confirms in translating the ancient Sumerian texts - altho in a different language and manner of speaking - the same story. 

Then we have Plato - in his way and with his manner of speach telling the same story, although it's been intertwined with a battle that to date, people are mixing in with the history he's telling.  They're two different things.  If there was a people attacking the Greeks, no matter if it was 9000 or 900 years before Solon, they were only Atlanteans from heritage - from the first humans to function on this planet.  Their name at that time was not Atlantians - it was Dalamatians as told in the UB.  The Urantia Book is very detailed in telling about the ice ages and what people did at that time.  The name At-land-dis probably DOES mean the "land is ice".  Because by the time the priest got the story, it would be referring to the end of the second ice age, when the original people from the Med area migrated north when the pole finally cleared of ice.  Then the earth tilted on it's axis and the last ice age set in with a vengence.  These northern people were trapped in little pockets of warm area for hundreds of years, until the ice started to melt again.  In that time, they developed the alphabet of 25 letters and the sound to go with with, lived in harmony with earth and treated each other equal. (the Bock Saga tells about this)  (My theory - one or more of these people were decendants of the first people to live on earth as described in the Urantia Book - one such being named Van who was the originator of the alphabet back in the very beginning)

Although this has been MY journey towards truth and enlightenment, I find the pieces all fit.  There are only 2 things we are on this planet for - to learn and to love. 

The only desire of the soul is to return to it's creator and to do that, we have to learn - in all categories and to love one another as we love ourselves.  In other words - to create a unity of all peoples so that our minds are not distracted with material things, or power or abstract philosophy.  To concentrate our mental efforts at understanding our own nature and what it is we have to learn to rise above our animalistic origins.

What has this got to do with Atlantis?  Nothing.  And Everything.  Plato was keeping the history alive so we'd "remember" our development.  Not talking about a specific island or a specific people.  His description of Atlantis is pretty much a description of the first city on earth called Dalamatia, situated in the Persian Gulf.  He talks about how the people were spiritual in the beginning - as were the staff of what is called the Planetary Prince - (who rebelled against the pre-set order of how we were to develop and set us back by about 250,000 years)  The staff were super-beings with a long life span.  Some stayed loyal to their original purpose, and some rebelled with the Prince.  They were very spiritual in the beginning, and over thousands of years, gradually intermarrying with the humans of earth, they bacame "more human" and devloped characteristics of greed and power.  Plato describes this.  The UB talks about the tribes that wandered all over Europe and the Med. following the ice and back again, and how they intermixed with each other.  How great cataclysms caused major upheavals in the Med. area - also told about in Plato's story.  Whether there was a battle or not, who knows?  That may have been the entertainment part of the story in honour of the goddess whose birthday they were celebrating. 

If one opens their mind and accepts the logic within the information they read, it's not hard to accept that we are still evolving - especially mentally - for a purpose.

Then more recently - we have the Bock Saga - telling the same story  and then we have the WingMaker Material that shows that all this was but a training ground for our further search for truth and enlightenment, using mind, and con-joining the sciences with a belief system to the ultimate goal of improving the human condition. 

Stacy, if you haven't read these things, you will have no idea what I'm talking about.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 13, 2007, 10:44:38 pm
Quote
I actually like your idea of Malta being a base that Atlantis used to attack the Greeks and the Egyptians. Plato does give the figures of the armies involved in the battles, but I do see his history concerning the tale end of Atlantis history.  I imagine the reason they invaded in the first place was because their own land was dying out.

Plato doesn't actually give the figures of the armies that attacked the Greeks.  He tells how many men and chariots etc. that each portion of the land had to contribute to the army.  Actually, there's very little about this great battle described at all.  No location, no name of a heroic leader, no name of a king or pharoah that might have been ruling at the time - nothing.

So I started with this in mind:  That the Atlanteans had subjected the lands inside the strait to Italy and Libya - so they already held that area.  If they were going to attack Greece and the rest of Eruope "at a blow", it stands to reason they would launch the attack from a point closest to the targets.  There is no mention that Egypt was ever attacked.  But Plato called the Atlanteans the "invaders" which means they were advancing FROM their territory TO someone else's territory.  They would not be attacking their own lands that were behind them, therefore this battle had to be around the boot of Italy.   

The other thing I checked out about the location of Atlantis was Diodorus Siculus.  He is re-telling an older story he copied, about the Amazons.  The Amazons lived in Libya and attacked their neighbors - The Atlanteans.  I think there is only one person in the world who thinks that Atlantis was a peninsula and not an island and that is Georgeos from the Atlantis Rising Forum.  So I set out to see what this could mean as to location.  He says Spain was a portion of Atlantis.  I don't think so .  Otherwise she'd have been found by now.  BUT - the Amazons lived on an island also - and their island was off the coast of Libya but they conquered a lot of Libya.  I wondered how they could attack another island but I happened to see a documentary on TV the other night and they COULD have done it.  But only if they had boats.  The Persians, when they wanted to attack Greece across a narrow strait, lined boats up side by side and lashed them together.  Then they literally built a road across the boats much like we build a floating pier.  However, the Amazons had 30,000 foot soldiers and 3000 horse.  I wonder if the boats would hold up?  Depends on how narrow the strait I guess.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 15, 2007, 09:41:29 pm
Well, upon further searching , it would seem that Atlantis and Amazonland were in the same place!  Not only that, but the Amazons, after attacking the one Atlantic city and razing it to the ground, built up another city on the same spot and Atlanteans and Amazons mixed together.  So - we have the first dilution of the those two races.  Maybe that's why the Atlanteans became so aggressive - they got it from their mommies. ;D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: nikas on March 16, 2007, 08:40:47 am
Actually it’s not a joke Qoais, it’s true. That's what my results show......those damn hot mommies.....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Brooke on March 18, 2007, 06:02:22 pm
Qoais,

Are we even certain that Plato and Diodorus are talking about the same people?  Look at the accounts, they have seemingly nothing in common with one another.

I have never been that convinced that they were. I get the feeling that many Atlantic dwelling people were known as Atlantes or Atlanteans.  If the people that Herodotus or Diodorus had ever tried to make war on the Mediterranean, wouldn't either one have made some mention of it?

Brooke


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 18, 2007, 07:33:07 pm
Hi Brooke

Quote
I get the feeling that many Atlantic dwelling people were known as Atlantes
  How many Atlantic dwelling peoples were there?  Med. dwelling peoples - lots - but Atlantic dwellers?

Diodorus says, in the beginning of his works, that he is merely copying older works for posterity, so they wouldn't get lost.  I have no idea whose works he is copying when he gives the account of the Amazons.  But he does describe the Atlanteans of that time as being the most peaceful of men; Plato also says that the Atlanteans were peaceful and more spiritual before they turned agressive. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 27, 2007, 01:04:49 am
I can't remember if I explained this before or not, but my search originally started with trying to figure out how the Ark of the Covenant mentioned in the Bible, worked.  I figured it had to be with electricity, but I couldn't quite come to a conclusion, other than that there had to be cystals involved somehow.  I also had it in mind that the Great Pyramid was a major power source, but I couldn't figure that out either.  I know power can be "saved" stored up, like in a battery, but I don't know enough about electricity or physics to actually work a complete theory on it.  I often wondered why the pyramids were basically all aligned the way they were, and thought perhaps they could "communicate" with one another.  I recently came across  the book The Lost Teachings of Atlantis by Peniel, and was kind of stunned at the following:

Quote
Chapter Nineteen
"The Children of the Law of One Basic Meta-Physics of Science-Magic" continued...
<PREVIOUS PAGE
You may know that almost every watch, and many clocks these days have “quartz movements”. The quartz crystals in these are used to do the opposite of the quartz in the lighters. It’s the same stuff, it’s still quartz crystal, but they use it a different way. In this case, instead of using a vibration (strike) to make electricity, they use electricity (a battery) to make the crystal vibrate. The constant vibration of the quartz, due to applying electricity to it, is the basis for measuring off the seconds minutes and hours. Because the quartz vibrates in a consistent manner, they can count how many times it vibrates per whatever time period, and calculate that to keep time.
All of that is pretty amazing really, but crystals can do much more.
In Atlantis, the Sons of Belial used lasers and geothermal type approaches to create energy to feed their power hungry energy demands. As was mentioned earlier, their power plants were instrumental in the terrible destructive Earth changes that destroyed Atlantis. But the Children were more power conservative - it’s not that they had to “do without”, but they found that the vast amounts of power that exists in the Earth’s bio-field, was plenty for all their needs. So they used crystals not only for healing, but for powering their buildings and their vehicles. The last of the Children’s greatest power plants was the “Great Pyramid” in Egypt. (The Great Pyramid was also used for Initiation - more about that in the chapter on the death experience).
Vishnu, who was an expert on both ancient technology and the present state of the world’s technology, explained more to me about the power of the Great Pyramid in Egypt.
“You have probably heard many things about the bible’s legendary ‘Ark of the Covenant’. If you know about electronic components, (which I did since I was a 5 year old little genius electronics freak) and you read even the worldly bible’s description of the Ark, (which I hadn’t) you will realize that this was a giant electric ‘capacitor’. A capacitor is a device, usually found in an electronic circuit, that stores up electricity to a certain level, then releases it in a burst. This is why the Ark had the reputation that if you touched it or got too close to it you would get zapped by a lightning bolt from God. The size of the Ark as a capacitor, held a charge big enough to make a bolt that would easily kill anyone who got near it - and would kill many people.”


“When I was a child I opened the back of our TV. There was a label on one area that said ‘Warning! High Voltage! Do not Touch!’ To me it was an invitation. So what did I do? I touched it, and I got a shock that sent me flying across the room and slammed into a wall! I later found out it was a capacitor. And it was only about the size of a salt shaker. So I can imagine what a huge thing like the Ark would put out - they probably should have called it the ‘Arc’ instead - you know, like an electric arc?”
“Yes... anyway... only David, in his humility, was able to touch the Ark without being killed.”
“Why?”
“Because of his advanced spiritual development, his energy centers, his chakras, were prepared to deal with such power, and the frequency of the electricity. And of course, with the guidance of the hierarchy, and his destiny, the raw power was transformed and channeled in such a way that it only made for a Kundalini experience, a communing with God, and instead of being killed, he came out of it wiser and more powerful.”
“But you said the Ark was a power device in Egypt in the Great Pyramid, why did David have it and what was he doing with it?”
“It was once the power storage device inside the Great Pyramid, yes. And I will get to that in a moment. But first understand what we started to discuss.
The Pyramid had a layered capstone of copper and custom created quartz crystal from Atlantis. The Pyramid would collect energy from the Earth’s bio-field, and focus it in the Ark. The Ark would release regular bursts of a specific frequency of electrical energy that would be transmuted and transmitted from the crystal capstone. All the Children’s buildings and vehicles had receiver crystals tuned to the Pyramid, and would pick up and change the energy back into usable power. We are still using this here today.

Chapter Nineteen
"The Children of the Law of One Basic Meta-Physics of Science-Magic" continued...
<PREVIOUS PAGE
Now as for your question about how David came into possession of it. Read the texts to get the entire story. But basically, during what they called the Exodus - when Moses freed the Jews in Egypt, the Jews went on a sort of freedom celebration rampage as they left, and took all kinds of Egyptian treasures, taking everything they could on their way out of town. This, which has been omitted greatly in the world’s modern bible, was one of the primary things which incited the Pharaoh to pursue them. And one of the things they took from Egypt, from the Great Pyramid, was...”
“The Ark!”
“Yes. Then of course, over time, knowledge of its original use was lost, they did not understand its power, and attributed it to a power of God, which was quite logical to them. It would strike people down who got near or touched it, and this was easily interpreted by some that it must be some sort of temple God lived in, and only the holiest of people were allowed to get so close to God. And in it, they eventually put the pieces of the commandments Moses brought them, that he smashed in his righteous indignation and despair over their unconsciousness and selfishness.”
“Where is it now?”
“We have a version of one the capacitors here as you know, but the one from the Great Pyramid, is located in a small church in Ethiopia.”
“A small church in Ethiopia??”
“Yes, I know it sounds odd, but there is a good reason. It was brought there by a small contingent of Jewish priests because they held it in very high regard as a holy religious item, and were concerned about it being desecrated or destroyed during an impending invasion.”
“But why Ethiopia?”
“It is a long story, but basically it is because of bonds that had been formed there by the coming together of Solomon, and the ‘queen of Sheba’, who was the ruler of what is now called Ethiopia. Just read about it in the texts when you have time.”


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 04:38:43 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/pyramidpower.gif)

Quote
On one occasion a short time after the chapter dealing with the transmission of Electro-magnetic energy by wireless was received, I was shown two immense towers on the planet which are used for the purpose of distributing power throughout the planet. The two towers were very close together, probably 100 yards apart and 100 feet high. They resembled two immense round smoke-stacks, such as are common in our factory districts. The tops of the towers were surmounted by oval caps, transparent as if made from glass, and protected by a system of grill work. While I was intently observing the towers there occurred a blinding flash of light simultaneously from the two oval caps. The surrounding country was covered with high trees, and it was impossible for me to observe the base of the two structures.

I copied this from a book that was written thru a medium.  The entity that provided the information claimed he had a debt to pay from his physical life, and he was allowed to contact his friend and dictate a book.  While this was happening, the "receiver" was given "visions" to help him understand what he was writing about.

I know a lot of people don't believe in the psychic stuff, but I happen to believe it since I'm a bit that way myself, and over the years I've been putting together stuff a bit here and a bit there, and when I finally had a picture in my mind, the pieces come together.  I have read of Tesler's scientific works, and it seems he had this energy system figured out but never built it as he feared humankind would destroy each other with it.
I forgot to mention that the picture is from somewhere else entirely, not of the channelled book.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 06:34:19 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/MosaicCloserUP.jpg)

Here is a picture of a Mosaic some of you might have come across before, found when workers were digging a basement for a new building.  It is supposedly of an ancient city an altho this isn't a clear picture, an artist has re-done it.  If you look closely tho, you will see two pillars in the right background that resemble the pillar of "power" for electro-magnetic energy by wireless.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 06:41:56 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ArtistsrenditionofMosaic.jpg)
Here is the artist's rendition of the Mosaic.  It's my theory that this is VERY old and those two towers in the background are the electricity source.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on March 28, 2007, 06:59:33 pm
Okay but why would this city want to electrocute people entering through the main gate.  That doesn't seem very hospitable to me.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 07:06:24 pm
I doubt that is the main gate.  The door at the bottom is probably for servicing.  I believe the gate is toward the front of the picture, altho the Mosaic was damaged there.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/TeslaCoil.jpg)

Tesla sitting under the fury of his Tesla Coil

These coils don't appear to be any where near 100 feet high, and Tesla isn't being affected by the power.  Even if the towers in the picture were at the gate, it wouldn't apparently hurt anyone especially if they're 100 feet high.  In the original mosaic, you will see that there is water outside the wall, so I doubt that would be a gate, unless of course they could all walk on water ;D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 11:00:31 pm
Supposedly, there is the main city of Atlantis, and 12 colonies (sounds like Jesus and the 12 doesn't it?)  These colonies were located on different parts of the earth.  I have copied the article below:

Humanity flourished in prehistoric times around these culture-centers; upon each 'node' of the GRID; the same mysteries and parallels occurred at all of the 13 locations. Here is another major mystery of multiple origin-areas for the human race. There should be ONE starting point, not MANY; not on tops of the Andes, on remote Easter Island; in the middle of the Sahara Desert; Japan; Europe; far away Australia; deepest Africa in Zimbabwe; India; Russia; Brazilian jungles and now Canada? How did humans get everywhere on the planet, even to isolated regions? The same building techniques, great knowledge of math and astronomy, same burials, beliefs...and the same story of an advanced civilization instantly appeared and mysteriously disappeared at the GRID positions, should SHOCK investigators! Instead, traditional researchers ignore the forest for the trees. Pyramids were not tombs. Ancient (impossible) stonework functioned as 'utility poles' in a TESLA-based system, rather than idols to pagan gods.


If our ancestors were primitive, the titanic stonework of the past (pyramids, monoliths, great statues, etc.) would not exist. The Stone Age was not a primitive, caveman period; it was an age where human gods built upon the Earth. If traditions were correct, then the only evidence of the distant past would be unearthed in the fossil record. There would be fossilized thatched roofs, simple implements and the most basic of things. Instead, we discover the Power System of the Gods in impossible stonework in impossible places!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 11:08:00 pm
The Cradles of Civilization were built on a global grid. The significance of this geographical FACT is the 12 Atlantean colonies were all connected to the main Power-Station in the Atlantic. Global grids (as they would in today's wired world) exist IN A PATTERN, connected in a worldwide system. If we observe a repeating, global pattern or network around the entire planet...we are forced to conclude a high-tech 'intelligence' was the architect. In the case of a technical 'Eden,' that prehistoric empire was Atlantis. Atlantis was not a legend, but the ancestors of the Pre-Egyptians and Pre-Incas.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 11:11:56 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AtlantisWirelessEnergyGrid.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 28, 2007, 11:28:30 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/CanadianMayan.jpg)
Fairly recent discovery of a Mayan Indian profile cut into the mountains in Alberta, Canada


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Matt on March 29, 2007, 01:07:40 am
Hi Qoais,

I doubt that is a Mayan Indian since they didn't ever make their way to Canada. I love the way you brought Tesla into this, though, he is an underappredeciated genius.

Where did the mosaic at the top of the page come from? It looks familiar.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 02:08:58 am
Hi Matt
Guess I better post the place I'm getting this info - some of it anyway!
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/doug_atlantis_pg.htm
He explains this a lot better than I do.  I just figured out this basic "theory" and stumbled across this guy and found he thinks like me - only he's actually out there checking it out while I sit and tour the world from my computer ;D  This man makes so much logical sense.  He's probably right too but going against all the established norms of science is always an uphill battle.  T'would be nice to find some PROOF since that is what it would take to get people to change their views.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 02:27:57 am
The mosaic was found in Rome when workers started digging a hole for the basement of a new building in 1997.  The location was the old Trajans Baths but they don't know what city the mosaic represents.
Although it took Tesla a lot of work, he himself made comments regarding how "simple" the theory of electro magnetic energy was, and said that one could basically stick a rod in the ground and have everlasting power.  But - the money people wouldn't want that to happen would they?  Anyway, what I'm getting at, is that if the builders of the pyramids had THAT technology, they likely had the electro magnetic energy knowledge as well.  It's really a much simpler method of creating electricity and it's a shame we don't adopt it and implement it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 02:49:48 am
Also - if the Atlanteans had the knowledge to build pyramids and to use elctro magnetic energy - they would have know about the following as well.  Perhaps some of this explains HOW the pyramids were built.

The Hutchison Effect -- An Explanation
by Mark A. Solis

People often ask, "What exactly is the Hutchison Effect?"
This brief essay is an attempt to answer that question to the satisfaction of the majority.

First of all, the Hutchison Effect is a collection of phenomena which were discovered accidentally by John Hutchison during attempts to study the longitudinal waves of Tesla back in 1979. In other words, the Hutchison Effect is not simply a singular effect. It is many.

The Hutchison Effect occurs as the result of radio wave interferences in a zone of spatial volume encompassed by high voltage sources, usually a Van de Graff generator, and two or more Tesla coils.

The effects produced include levitation of heavy objects, fusion of dissimilar materials such as metal and wood (exactly as portrayed in the movie, "The Philadelphia Experiment"), the anomalous heating of metals without burning adjacent material, spontaneous fracturing of metals (which separate by sliding in a sideways fashion), and both temporary and permanent changes in the crystalline structure and physical properties of metals.

The levitation of heavy objects by the Hutchison Effect is not---repeat not---the result of simple electrostatic or electromagnetic levitation. Claims that these forces alone can explain the phenomenon are patently ridiculous, and easily disproved by merely trying to use such methods to duplicate what the Hutchison Effect has achieved, which has been well documented both on film and videotape, and has been witnessed many times by numerous credentialed scientists and engineers. Challengers should note that their apparatus must be limited to the use of 75 Watts of power from a 120 Volt AC outlet, as that is all that is used by Hutchison's apparatus to levitate a 60-pound cannon ball.

The fusion of dissimilar materials, which is exceedingly remarkable, indicates clearly that the Hutchison Effect has a powerful influence on Van der Waals forces. In a striking and baffling contradiction, dissimilar substances can simply "come together," yet the individual substances do not dissociate. A block of wood can simply "sink into" a metal bar, yet neither the metal bar nor the block of wood come apart. Also, there is no evidence of displacement, such as would occur if, for example, one were to sink a stone into a bowl of water.

The anomalous heating of metal without any evidence of burning or scorching of the adjacent materials (usually wood) is a clear indication that possibly the nature of heat may not be completely understood. This has far-reaching implications for thermodynamics, which hinges entirely on the presumption of such knowledge. It should be noted that the entirety of thermodynamics is represented by the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, which is insignificant in a context of 0 Hz to infinite Hz. The anomalous heating exhibited by the Hutchison Effect shows plainly that we have much to learn, especially where thermodynamics and electromagnetism meet.

The spontaneous fracturing of metals, as occurs with the Hutchison Effect, is unique for two reasons: (1) there is no evidence of an "external force" causing the fracturing, and (2) the method by which the metal separates involves a sliding motion in a sideways direction, horizontally. The metal simply comes apart.

Some temporary changes in the crystalline structure and physical properties of metals are somewhat reminiscent of the "spoon bending" of Uri Geller, except that there is no one near the metal samples when the changes take place. One video shows a spoon flapping up and down like a limp rag in a stiff breeze. In the case of permanent changes, a metal bar will be hard at one end, like steel, and soft at the other end, like powdered lead. Again, this is evidence of strong influence on Van der Waals forces.

The radio wave interferences involved in producing these effects are produced from as many as four and five different radio sources, all operating at low power. However, the zone in which the interferences take place is stressed by hundreds of kilovolts.

It is surmised by some researchers that what Hutchison has done is tap into the Zero Point Energy. This energy gets its name from the fact that it is evidenced by oscillations at zero degrees Kelvin, where supposedly all activity in an atom ceases. The energy is associated with the spontaneous emission and annihilation of electrons and positrons coming from what is called "the quantum vacuum." The density of the energy contained in the quantum


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 03:08:29 am
Underwater images of Yonaguni - the 11th colony of Atlantis

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Yonaguni3.jpg)



(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Yonaguni2.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on March 29, 2007, 07:14:59 am
I think Yonaguni could be the remnants of Lemuria rather than Atlantis.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 09:48:28 am
Same difference  ;D  Sort of.  One of the 12 colonies.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on March 29, 2007, 12:03:48 pm
No, not exactly.  Lemuria, or Mu, came long before Atlantis although there was some overlapping at the end.  Its inhabitants were more closely linked to the world of the spirit.  They would have had little use for the type of technology that you describe.

Now, the Atlanteans during the later periods did have a type of energy grid, but I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with the thirteen global points that you posted above.  The central power plant of the Atlanteans housed the Great Crystal and was probably located in the western Atlantic or Caribbean area.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 29, 2007, 12:58:32 pm
I think it was in the Edgar Cayce stuff wasn't it, that he said the people of Mu were more spiritual than the Atlanteans?  I remember reading a line somewhere that said the Atlanteans and Mu did know of each other, that Atlanteans had seldom visited Mu but that the Mu were not worried about the Atlantians attacking them, that they had a means of protecting themselves.  That's it.  That's all I can remember and I'm not sure it was Cayce.  I suspect too that each of the power stations must have had a crystal of some sort to vibrate and generate power.  Cayce also said that it was mis-use of the crystal that started Atlantis breaking up so I don't think it would have been in the Med.

If Mu was in the Pacific between S. America and Australia, I don't think Japan is a close contender.  Maybe French Polynesia, New Caledonia or even Hawaii.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 30, 2007, 06:08:43 pm
http://www.relevant-television.com/arikat/miniseries_story.htm#

This is so cool.  It shows how cement blocks were poured to build the pyramids.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 04, 2007, 09:25:50 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/CrossSectionofPyramid.jpg)


Here is part of the booklet that goes with the above photo.

Go to:

http://www.galactic-server.com/rune/pyrmyst.html      to read more.

This article explains that a small group of people, after working for 40 years on the project, basically snuck into the Great Pyrmid via a route they translated from old texts, and found under the pyramid, a beautiful chamber, housing technology and knowledge from ancient times. 

I have read years ago, about underground tunnels that exist under the surface of the earth, used by the ancients to transport goods to their different colonies.  There are certain accesses to these "tubes", one being under the Great Pyramid, and one being in an obscure location in Tibet. (also other places.)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on April 04, 2007, 11:34:15 pm
Cayce could memorize by sleeping on books and what was written in books. He only said what was already written. He worked in a book store.

The idea of the Lemurian continent first appeared in the works of Augustus Le Plongeon, (1826-1908) a 19th century researcher and writer who conducted investigations of the Maya ruins in the Yucatan. He announced that he had translated ancient Mayan writings, which allegedly showed that the Maya of Yucatan were older than the later civilizations of Atlantis and Egypt, and additionally told the story of an even older continent of Mu, whose survivors founded the Maya civilization. Later students of the Ancient Maya writings argue that Le Plongeon's "translations" were based on little more than his vivid imagination.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 05, 2007, 09:30:01 am
Hi Doc
I never heard that Cayce worked in a book store.  He was a photographer.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on April 05, 2007, 02:22:47 pm
In December 1893 the family moved to Hopkinsville, Kentucky and occupied 705 West Seventh, on the south-east corner of Seventh and Young Street. During this time Cayce received an eighth-grade education; discovered his spiritual vocation; left the family farm to pursue various forms of employment (at Richard's Dry Goods Store, then in Hopper's Bookstore both located on Main Street).



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on April 05, 2007, 02:28:14 pm
Hopper's Bookstore in Hopkinsville where Cayce worked for many years as a young man specialized in occult and osteopathic works and he may have consciously or otherwise absorbed much of this material. However, knowledge of this material cannot account for most of Cayce's specific diagnoses, such as directing that osteopathic adjustments be given to a developmentally-delayed and seizure-ridden child named Aime Dietrich. She was restored to normal health by Cayce-directed treatments after conventional doctors had pronounced her case hopeless.

Books such as Frederick Oliver's Atlantean fantasy A Dweller on Two Planets and Marie Corelli's novels were probably accessible to Cayce at his bookstore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 05, 2007, 05:34:41 pm
Facinating, I didn't remember he worked in a bookstore.  Be that as it may, I doubt he "slept" on ALL the books  :)  and he did do an amazing number of readings over his lifetime.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 05, 2007, 06:20:41 pm
Yes, the reason that Cayce's readings are so amazing even today is that he tapped into the Akashic Records.  There are only a few readings that mention Lemuria/Mu, probably because it had much less relevance than Atlantis.  The readings say that there were many, many Atlantean souls reincarnating, especially during the early 1900's.  This makes sense when you consider all of the technology that was achieved during the last century.

Theosophy gives more details about Lemuria than does Cayce, but there are other sources, as well.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 05, 2007, 07:45:43 pm
The Tibetan Monks train in spirituality and say that when one is "prepared" one can visit the Akashic records themselves via astral travel.  They also say that one can penetrate anywhere in the earth or universe with astral travel.  Perhaps, because the people of MU were more highly spiritual, they didn't have to re-incarnate and therefore Cayce's readings of course would involve people who were NOT so enlightened since they WERE reincarnating.

I've been reading the books of Lobsang Rampa and find his teachings cover a lot of what I've believed in all my life.  Maybe I used to live in Atlantis!  He did mention that yes, Atlantis did exist at one time, but I'm afraid that the location he gave isn't anywhere near where everybody is looking for it.  They won't find it either, if it was where he says it was.    He says the earth has been "seeded" a number of times by peoples known as "Gardeners of the Earth", and when the "seed" didn't develop the way it was supposed to, the gardeners cleared them out, and re-seeded.  He says that nuclear power was once before invented upon this earth and it caused major destruction here, and then had a ripple effect out into the universe.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 05, 2007, 08:40:18 pm
Both Cayce and Plato suggest that civilization has reinvented itself a number of times during the earths existence.  Nuclear power?  It's possible.  Cayce said Atlanteans used the death ray, which was more akin to the laser because it drew power from the atmosphere and heavenly bodies and then concentrated through the use of crystals.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 06, 2007, 02:09:11 am
Possibly Electro Magnetic power as well.  When studying about the Ark of the Covenant the Bible explains what the ARK did and that when people came to close to it, Moses told them to bathe in the river.  Mostly they washed their hands and feet, but in these instances Moses made them totally bathe ~ water apparently being the only thing that washed away the radiation effects.  In reading the Vedas I read where the "gods" fought arial battles and unleashed nuclear weapons, and the results of those wars.  This caused me to look up vitrified sand (sand turned to glass under EXTREME heat) to find locations for it, and indeed, the vitrified glass was found in the areas I expected to find it.  Egypt, the Sanai Peninsula and Libya.  This glass has been tested and it is not from a meteorite strike or lightning.  It's almost 99.9% pure.  The land in the areas where these battles took place, basically turned to desert from the radiation.  I had ventured a guess (to myself) that if indeed they had the technology to do these things, they had the technology to cause the cataclyms necessary to induce the water levels to raise and "wash" the land of the radiation.  A few bombs into a couple of volcanos causing a chain reaction, or something anyway, that caused the "great flood", so the land could be washed clean.  These people could live on their ships until the earth settled down again, and start all over.  The Sitchin stories pretty well explain it that way, altho the flood in his books, was caused by the warming from the earth's core, of the underneath side of the ice mass on Antarctica, causing that great mass to slide into the ocean when the earth wobbled on it's axis - supposedly caused from the 12th planet coming so close to earth in it's orbit.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 06, 2007, 02:51:59 am
I can't remember if Edgar Cayce talked about the tunnels under the earth, but I've come across many references to such things, including  Lobsang Rampa's books, the book where I got the cross-cut picture of the pyramid showing the stairs from the top to under the pryamid, people who have worked for the government coming forward to tell about the on-going use of these tunnels by the government, etc.  If they had lasers which they likely would have, since they had the technology for so much else, those tunnels could have been made quite easily.  Makes sense too.  If the Anunnaki came here to mine gold, they had to get it to common loading docks.  Apparently the vehicle that traverses these tunnels travelled at great speeds.  They were just showing on the news the other night, a new train that travels at 645 miles per hour or thereabouts.  On rails yet.  If it was a mag-lev type, it would likely even go faster.

With regards to the great pyramid, there is no doubt that we find it a marvel of engineering.  If we take the story of the folks who snuck into it as true, then in my humble opinion, it was built by a very advanced civilization.  Not with rubble packed in the empty spaces that's for sure.  It was built for specific purposes, almost perfect in it's construction and alignment.  No way was this built with rubble.  No more than we would build a skyscraper on rubble.  If it's also true that the secret door, and inner doors work on harmonics, you can bet that every stone is strategically placed.   No sour notes anywhere. 

I was reading a physics paper the other day, and it was the second time in a matter of days that I came across this expression "intuitive knowledge".   Or "intuitive understanding".  I was surprised to find that expression in a "dedicated science" paper.  All my life, I seem to have had this intuitive knowledge ~ knowing things, but not knowing how I know them.  Studying something, and knowing intuitively if it's truth or not.  Sometimes I question myself, and then end up confusing myself! Then I really have to study the thing to set myself straight again. 

I believe Atlantis existed, but I don't think it's what everyone thinks Plato is describing.  I believe one way or another, this planet has had humanoid life on it that did not develop on the planet, for long ages past.   It's possible that there was evolution of a species on this planet, indiginous to this planet, but I think it's been "tampered" with a number of times. 

Three books that relate the same message are Edgar Cayce, the Urantia Book and Plato.    They all say that in the beginning, the inhabitants (whoever or whatever they were), were very spiritual and over time became base.  Both Edgar Cayce and the UB tell of "humanoids" that had been developing on earth but were not very advanced when celestial beings came here. (The Sumerian texts say the same)  I would have to re-read Cayce to upgrade my memory but one thing sticks out very clearly.  I do remember him saying that the first "perfect" human child was born in Egypt.  The Sumerian texts say the same thing.  Both Cayce and the Sumerian texts tell about alterations of DNA or "operations" to correct mistakes (such as humans with tails and so on) and Cayce mentions the Temple Beautiful and Temple of Knowledge I think it was.  One of these temples was a school and one a "hospital" where the unfortunates who were born with wierd appendages were operated on to remove such, and then given psychiatric counselling for their self esteem.  Even the Bok Saga has the same theme, where the people were very spiritual in the beginning and then gradually became selfish and personal ego took over and the tribes separated.

My point being - that there is a common thread thru all the histories that tell of other beings that came here from somewhere else.  Obviously to do that, they had advanced technology.  WAY advanced technology. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 06, 2007, 05:26:05 am
Yes, according to Cayce our current "root race" originated in Egypt around 10,500 B.C.  I wonder what effect this may have had on the evidence that scientists have gathered for the "out of Africa" theory.  Is it possible that the evidence is more or less correct but the interpretation is skewed?

It was during this same time period that the Edgar Cayce soul "Ra-Ta" was sent into exile south of Egypt.  You can see from the following excerpt that this was probably when Ra-Ta did his initial planning for the Great Pyramid.  Interestingly, he does make a reference to an ancient tunnel system.  I don't know of any other such references in the readings except perhaps for the Hall of Records, if you want to call that a tunnel system.

Quote
294-150  7/28/32
There were begun some memorials in the Nubian land which still may be seen, even in this period, in the mountains of the land. Whole mountains were honeycombed, and were dug into sufficient to where the perpetual fires are STILL in activity in these various periods, when the priest then began to show the manifestations of those periods of reckoning the longitude (as termed now), latitude, and the activities of the planets and stars, and the various groups of stars, constellations, and the various influences that are held in place, or that HOLD in place those about this particular solar system.

Hence in the Nubian land there were first begun the reckoning of those periods when the Sun has its influence upon human life, and let's REMEMBER that it is in this period when the PRESENT RACE has been called into being - and the INFLUENCE is reckoned from all experiences of Ra-Ta, as the effect upon the body physical, the body mental, the body spiritual, or soul body; and these are the reckonings and the effects that were reckoned with, and about, and of, and concerning, in their various phases and effects. These all were set, not by Ra-Ta - but EXPRESSED in the DEVELOPMENT of Ra-Ta, that these DO affect - by the forces as set upon all - not only the inhabitant of a given sphere or planet, but the effect all has upon every form of expression in that sphere of the Creative Energies in action in that given sphere, and this particular sphere - or earth - was the RECKONING in that period. Hence arose what some termed those idiosyncrasies of planting in the moon, or in the phases of the moon, or of the tides and their effect, or of the calling of an animal in certain phases of the moon or seasons of the year, or of the combining of elements in the mineral kingdom, vegetable kingdom, animal kingdom, in various periods, were FIRST discovered or first given, not discovered - first CONSCIOUS of - by Ra-Ta, in his first giving to the peoples of the Nubian land.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on April 06, 2007, 08:22:28 am
 The Akashic records are of every thought and deed,  not all thoughts are truths.:)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 06, 2007, 10:08:57 am
Yes, thoughts AND deeds are recorded in the Akashic records.  However, I don't think that would interfere with arriving at the truth.  If a person's thoughts do not match up with his deeds, that would be a good sign that that person is a hypocrite.   :)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on April 06, 2007, 02:26:43 pm
Qoais,

RE: "Even the Bok Saga has the same theme, where the people were very spiritual in the beginning and then gradually became selfish and personal ego took over and the tribes separated."

The reason for this is quite understandable

As the Bock saga reveals, the Aser people never lost their spiritual life, and throughout Ice-time, during their isolation and separation from the southern humanity, remained quite within in their perfection (as best as they could maintain living within a glacier), even to the degree that upon coming south at the end of Ice-time they were regarded as "gods".   

However, the ongoing contact that had maintained their world-wide culture before Ice-time was broken by the ice, the cousins in the south strayed from their powerful original culture.  Even re-establishing contact at the end of Ice-time was not sufficient to "re-tool" millions of years of greed, slavery and tyrants.

The As people did maintain their culture for a long time, even in secret, as the culture of christianity destroyed all it possibly could of the old ways.

Now it exists only in language, in logic, in honesty and in truth.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 06, 2007, 05:34:47 pm
Well Said Rockessence - Regarding the Akashic records, they are more than just the "book of life" for individuals.  It is also the "book of life for the planet, and the universe.  According to the Urantia Book this planet has always had "celestial" overseers, and the same is being said by "contactees"; those persons who have been chosen by extra-terrestrials to have knowledge given to them.  Personally, I can't understand why I chose to be born a Canadian when I could have chosen to be a Tibetan Monk ;D  I would love to have been trained in their concepts.  I know I could apply myself and learn to astral travel on my own, and I could likely learn to do a lot of things, but somewhere inside me is a streak of laziness and I haven't done a lot of things I wish I'd done.  Just trying to keep ahead of the bills is a life consuming occupation and I can certainly see where the life described in a lot of the works I've read would be more conducive to higher thinking.  However, I suppose this planet (and there may be others like it) was made so the soul (spiritual part) could experience trials and tribulations physically and raise their consciousness with physical experience.  Who knows, maybe this planet is just that - a training ground - and when we get too rediculous and it looks like we might destroy the boot camp, we are held in check so we can't.  Noty totally anyway.  Maybe sometimes, the celestials have to "disinfect" the school so they can use it for future generations!   :)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on April 07, 2007, 02:52:44 am
Q,

Usually the life you select is chosen precisely for the problems it presents, and the growth rendered from overcoming those problems.  Tibetan or Canadian.....if you will quickly and wholeheartedly resolve your own problems with graciousness and love, and reach out to help others at every opportunity, what difference does it make where you live that life?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 07, 2007, 04:00:13 pm
I do understand that Rock.  Actually, when I hear the news from all over the world, I'm glad I was born in Canada.   :)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2007, 01:07:31 am
Here is an exerpt from Cave of the Ancients by T. Lobsang Rampa - Tibetan Lama  His instructor had taken him and a few others to this cave where the instructor had been in the past as a young boy.  Inside, were working models of ancient technology, automated films explaining what had happened and why the cave had been built.

We saw oceans with great floating cities, which moved from land to land. In the sky floated equally large craft which moved without sound. Which could hover, and almost instantly flash into stupendous speed. On the surface' vehicles moved some inches above the ground itself, sup-ported in the air by some method which we could not determine. Bridges stretched across the cities carrying on slender cables what appeared to be roadways. As we watched we saw a vivid flash in the sky, and one of the largest bridges collapsed into a tangle of girders and cables. Another flash, and most of the city itself vanished into incandescent gas. Above the ruins towered a strangely evil-looking red cloud, roughly in the shape of a mushroom - miles high.

Our pictures faded, and we saw again the group of men who had planned the "Time Capsules". They had decided that now was the time to seal them. We saw the ceremonies, we saw the "stored memories" being fitted into the machine. We heard the speech of farewell which told us - "The People of the Future, if there be any!" - that Mankind was about to destroy itself, or such seemed probable, "and within these vaults (hvelv) are stored such records of our achievements and follies (dårskap) as may benefit those of a future race who have the intelligence to discover it, and having discovered it, be able to understand it."



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2007, 01:13:45 am
Ha!  From the first time I saw a picture of the Sphinx I figured the head and shoulders was a woman.

More from Cave of the Ancients:

This was the world of Long Long Ago. When the world was very young. Mountains stood where now there are seas, and the pleasant seaside resorts are now mountain tops. The weather was warmer and strange creatures roamed afield. This was a world of scientific progress. Strange machines rolled along, flew inches from the surface of the Earth, or flew miles up in the air. Great temples reared their pinnacles skywards, as if in challenge to the clouds. Animals and Man talked telepathically together. But all was not bliss; politicians fought against politicians. The world was a divided camp in which each side coveted the lands of the other. Suspicion and fear were the clouds under which the ordinary man lived. Priests of both sides proclaimed that they alone were the favoured of the gods. In the pictures before us we saw ranting priests - as now - purveying their own brand of salvation. At a price! Priests of each sect taught that it was a "holy duty" to kill the enemy. Almost in the same breath they preached that Mankind throughout the world were brothers. The illogicality of brother killing brother did not occur to them.

We saw great wars fought, with most of the casualties (sårede) being civilians. The armed forces, safe behind their armour, were mostly safe. The aged, the women and children, those who did not fight, were the ones to suffer. We saw glimpses of scientists working in laboratories, working to produce even deadlier weapons, working to produce bigger and better bugs to drop on the enemy. One sequence of pictures showed a group of thoughtful men planning what they termed a "Time Capsule" (tidskapsel)(what we called "The Cave of the Ancients"), wherein they could store for later generations working models of their machines and a complete, pictorial record of their culture and lack of it. Immense machines excavated the living rock. Hordes of men installed the models and the machines. We saw the cold light spheres hoisted in place, inert radio-active substances giving off light for millions of years. Inert in that it could not harm humans, active in that the light would continue almost until the end of Time itself.

We found that we could understand the language, then the explanation was shown, that we were obtaining the "speech" telepathically. Chambers such as this, or "Time Capsules", were concealed beneath the sands of Egypt, beneath a pyramid in South America, and at a certain spot in Siberia. Each place was marked by the symbol of the times; the Sphinx. We saw the great statues of the Sphinx, which did not originate in Egypt, and we received an explanation of its form. Man and animals talked and worked together in those far-off days. The cat was the most perfect animal for power and intelligence. Man himself is an animal, so the Ancients made a figure of a large cat body to indicate power and endurance, and upon the body they put the breasts and head of a woman. The head was to indicate human intelligence and reason, while the breasts indicated that Man and Animal could draw spiritual and mental nourishment each from the other. That Symbol was then as common as is Statues of Buddha, or the Star of David, or the Crucifix at the present day.

Sounds like Atlantis to me!



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2007, 01:16:57 am
Continuing:

We saw the procession of men and women, notables of that time no doubt, file out of the Cave. Machines with vast arms slid (skjøv)what appeared to be half a mountain over the entrance. The cracks and crevices (sprekkene..) where surfaces met were carefully sealed, and the group of people and the workmen went away. Machines rolled into the distance and for a time, some months, the scene was quiet. We saw a high priest standing on the steps of an immense Pyramid, exhorting (formanende) his listeners to war. The pictures impressed upon the Scrolls of Time rolled on, changed, and we saw the opposing camp. Saw the leaders ranting and raving. Time moved on. We saw streaks of white vapour in the blue of the skies, and then those skies turned red. The whole world trembled and shook. We, watching, experienced vertigo. The darkness of the night fell over the world. Black clouds, shot with vivid flames, rolled around the whole globe. Cities flamed briefly and were gone.

Across the land surged the raging seas. Sweeping all before it, a giant wave, taller than the tallest building had been, roared across the land, its crest bearing aloft the flotsam of a dying civilization. The Earth shook and thundered in agony (pine), great chasms (kløfter) appeared and closed again like the gaping maws of a giant. The mountains waved like willow twigs in a storm, waved, and sank beneath the seas. Land masses rose from the waters and became mountains. The whole surface of the world was in a state of change, of continuous motion. A few scattered survivors, out of millions, fled shrieking to the newly risen mountains. Others, afloat in ships that somehow survived the upheaval, reached the high ground and fled into any hiding place they could find. The Earth itself stood still, stopped its direction of rotation, and then turned in the opposite direction. Forests flashed from trees to scattered ash in the twinkling of an eye. The surface of the Earth was desolate (øde; ødslig; fortapt; ensom og forlatt), ruined, charred to a black crisp. Deep in holes, or in the lava tunnels of extinct volcanoes, a scattered handful of Earth's population, driven insane by the catastrophe, cowered and gibbered in their terror. From the black skies fell a whitish substance, sweet to the taste, sustaining of life.

In the course of centuries the Earth changed again; the seas were now land, and the lands that had becn were now seas. A low lying plain had its rocky walls cracked and sundered, and the waters rushed in to form the Sea now known as the Mediterranean. Another sea nearby sank through a gap in the sea bed, and as the waters left and the bed dried, the Sahara Desert was formed. Over the face of the Earth wandered wild tribes who, by the light of their camp fires, told of the old legends, told of the Flood, of Lemuria, and Atlantis. They told, too, of the day the Sun Stood Still.

The Cave of the Ancients lay buried in the silt (slam) of a halfdrowned world. Safe from intruders, it rested far beneath the surface of the land. In course of time, fast-running streams would wash away the silt, the debris, and allow the rocks to stand forth in the sunlight once more. At last, heated by the sun and cooled by a sudden icy shower, the rock face would split with thunderous noise and we would be able to enter.





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2007, 01:18:13 am
And - a bit more.

In the course of centuries the Earth changed again; the seas were now land, and the lands that had becn were now seas. A low lying plain had its rocky walls cracked and sundered, and the waters rushed in to form the Sea now known as the Mediterranean. Another sea nearby sank through a gap in the sea bed, and as the waters left and the bed dried, the Sahara Desert was formed. Over the face of the Earth wandered wild tribes who, by the light of their camp fires, told of the old legends, told of the Flood, of Lemuria, and Atlantis. They told, too, of the day the Sun Stood Still.

The Cave of the Ancients lay buried in the silt (slam) of a halfdrowned world. Safe from intruders, it rested far beneath the surface of the land. In course of time, fast-running streams would wash away the silt, the debris, and allow the rocks to stand forth in the sunlight once more. At last, heated by the sun and cooled by a sudden icy shower, the rock face would split with thunderous noise and we would be able to enter.

We shook ourselves, stretched our cramped limbs, and rose wearily to our feet. The experience had been a shattering one. Now we had to eat, to sleep, and on the morrow we would look about us again so that we might perhaps learn something. Then, our mission accomplished, we would wall up the entrance as directed. The Cave would sleep again in peace until men of goodwill and high intelligence would come again. I wandered to the Cave mouth and looked down upon the desolation, upon the riven rocks, and I wondered what a man of the Old Times would think if he could rise from his grave to stand beside me, here.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2007, 01:34:34 am
I get the impression from this, that the society being referred to, was older than Plato's Atlantis.  It was long AFTER this culture had wiped itself out that the Strait of Gibralter opened and the Med. was formed, and the water that WAS the Sahara, drained out the bottom.  If the priest talking to Solon, was as initiated to as high a degree as Rampa, he was indeed telling a historical story, but for sure Plato put the "war" with the Athenians in for good measure.  It seems the land mass was very different at the time and of course the ocean was "navigable" since they had the equipment to navigate with.  Seems also there were two sides only, like Cayce mentions, the good and the bad.  Also the land WAS outside the, what was then known in Plato's time,  as the Pillars of Heracles because it was a different land mass altogether. 

Apparently the Lamas can astral travel and read the Akashic records of the earth and it's history.  (So now you know Tom, why I wished I'd been born in Tibet!)  I know - I could still learn the technique.  He says it's easy when you know how ::)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 12, 2007, 08:34:52 pm
Here is a bit from a book written by a Tibetan monk regarding the destruction of Atlantis:

Great harm was done to the Earth by the followers of darkness, natural imbalances were created by them.  Thus did these actions bring about the physical fall of Atlantis.
The greatest of these natural imbalances was created by drilling huge holes in the Earth's crust, down to the levels of molten Earth.  The Belialians used the very gross physical forces of the inner Earth to generate their power.  They used concentrated light energy beams (like lasers) to bore great holes in the Earth.  Remnants of them can still be seen in many places.  (notably such as Florida, the Caribbean, and the "Blue Hole of Belize).  Creating their power plants was much like making a series of un natural volcanoesand it resulted in great instability and seismic disturbances.  Even though they were warned of the consequences, the Belialians persisted in this un-natural activity, and caused the Earth changes that destroyed Atlantis.
Before the final destruction of Atlantis, knowing the time, knowing the signs, those of us of the light, went to many other parts of the Earth, in order to continue our work.

During the exodus from Atlantis, many of us followed Thoth (pronounced Toth) to the land of Khem, now called Egypt.  There he built the Great Pyramid, and other temples and places of healing, for purposes of completing our work, initiating the wise, and enlightening the ignorant. 

"Modern Science" has surmised that these great pyramids were built by workers over many, many years, for the purposes of tombs.  However, lacking any real facts from that time, these scientists make great assumptions, and their conclusions are truly un-scientific.  These great structures were in fact built by Thoth, using forces he controlled with the help of the advanced technology aboard his terrestrial airship (a common Atlantean mode of transportation in the days of Atlantis)These vibratory forces could change molecular density, so that the great stones could be made to float in air, just as wood floats in water.  The power generators built by the Children of the Law of One, were very harmonious with nature, in stark contrast with the Belialian methods.  Ther generators were simple pyramids, that harmlessly collected the energy present in the Earth's aura (a frequency of the electromagnetic field - the field that makes a compass point to North)  The power generator pyramids used only crystal and copper capstones, combined with a large peak release collector (capacitor) inside the pyramid.  This allowed "wireless" transmission of the power to any building, or vehicle, including the air borne terrestrial ships such as Thoth's.

The Great Pyramid itself was both a power generator and a center for final stage spiritual initiation, for the Children of the Law of One.  It's great hall was once lined with the painted tablets depicting the stages of spiritual development and initiation that were later to become the Major Arcana of the Tarot. 

Thoth's ship remains, hidden under the Sphinx.  This may yet be found and used by initiates, when it is time and the need arises.  Between the Sphinx and the Pyramid, is buried a chamber that contains the records of our history from the beginning.  This, or duplicate records in the Yucatan, or the ocean, will be found just prior to the great Earth changes that will again rock the Earth on it's axis.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on April 12, 2007, 09:37:36 pm


Q:

Is your last post Cayce or the Lama?

If it's the Lama, the similarities are astounding!

B.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 12, 2007, 10:38:40 pm
Hi Bianca
It's not either one, but it IS a Tibetan Monk.  He does explain in his book, that Cayce was correct in a lot of things.  What I'm reading now is astounding as well.  It's called The Children of the Law of One & the Lost Teachings of Atlantis.  Author is Jon Peniel.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 13, 2007, 04:49:27 am
Here's what bothers me, Qoais.  How do we know the Tibetan monk wasn't just copying from a Cayce book?  What are his credentials?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 13, 2007, 11:33:48 am
Well Tom, I guess you'd have to read the book and judge for yourself, but if the monks and Cayce were both reading from the Akashic records, my bet would be that they're both reading the same "booK" ;D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on April 13, 2007, 01:32:39 pm
Okay, so I guess you are admitting that this anonymous Tibetan monk really has no credentials.  Who am I to stop you from believing everything you read on the Internet?  Enjoy!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 13, 2007, 01:56:57 pm
Tom, I don't understand what credetials a Tibetan monk is supposed to have in your opinion.  I thought I posted the name of the book - I ordered it on-line.

The Children of the Law of One & the Lost Teachings of Atlantis by Jon Peniel.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 13, 2007, 03:18:49 pm
Hi Blue Hue, let me see if I can follow you:

Atlantis = Land of Ad = Holyland (in Egyptian)
Ad = Athe=Athens - Athens = Acropolis of Holyland - therefore Athens was considered the Holyland? or is this a different Ad?
Atlantis' real name was Punt (?) = Atlantis was the Holyland = Atlantis was Athens
Cecrops arrives in Athens/holyland/Atlantis/Punt - and becomes King of Punt/Athens/holyland/Atlantis?
 

Cecrops - meaning "face with a tail" = El - of - Punt = (elepunt) = King of elephants
Cecrops - has a face with a tail, a human top, and body of a serpent or fish - Wierd dude

What do you mean by the moon hitting Hawaii causing a tidal wave? and then re-emerging as Afrodite?
How can a tidal wave in Hawaii, pass thru Arabia and then hit Athens?

Let me try again:

Atlantis = Land of Ad = holyland (in Egyptian)
The holyland was Isreal

Ad=Athe=Athens = Acropolis of holyland = Acropolis of Atlantis = Athens was in Isreal?

Blue Hue - I just can't figure out what you're saying.  I'll try one more time, and then maybe you'll be kind enough to walk me thru it ???

Atlantis = Land of Ad = Holyland (in Egyptian) - Atlantis' real name was Punt so Punt = Holyland = Atlantis
Holyland = Isreal  - therefore Atlantis = Isreal
Cecrops was King of Punt - therefore - Cecrops was King of Atlantis
Cecrops  - El of Punt = King of Atlantis -  arrived in Athens from Hyria (which is north of Athens) and makes it a "kingdom"
Does this now make Athens a Holyland as you've shown with the "Ad=Athe=Athens = Acropolis of Holyland"?




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 13, 2007, 03:24:35 pm
Quote
Okay, so I guess you are admitting that this anonymous Tibetan monk really has no credentials.  Who am I to stop you from believing everything you read on the Internet?  Enjoy!

What is it with you Tom?  You never answer the questions put to you but you make snide remarks about what other people post.  What credentials is this Monk supposed to have that would satisfy you?  Answer the question.  What credentials do you have that you keep demanding everyone that posts things has to have "credentials" also?  This is not a forum for PhD's.  I don't NEED credentials to post here.  I don't NEED to research the "credentials" of authors of books I quote.  If you want to know the credentials of the Monk, look him up.  He's not exactyly "anonymous" since he's published a book. 

What I BELIEVE is unknown to you so why would you make a snide remark like that?  Even tho you're right - who are you to stop me from believing anything? 





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 14, 2007, 04:12:30 pm
ok ok  woah ...deep breaths  ;D   

I came across a book that might have a bearing on your theory Qoais.I am not sure if you have seen it before.It's called 'Finding Atlantis' by David King.


A review:


The untold story of a fascinating Renaissance man on an adventurous hunt for a lost civilization—an epic quest through castles, courts, mythologies, and the spectacular world of the imagination.

What do Zeus, Apollo, and the gods of Mount Olympus have in common with Odin, Thor, and the gods of Valhalla? What do these, in turn, have to do with the shades of Hades, the pharaohs of Egypt, and the glories of fabled Atlantis? In 1679, Olof Rudbeck stunned the world with the answer: They could all be traced to an ancient lost civilization that once thrived in the far north of Rudbeck’s native Sweden. He would spend the last thirty years of his life hunting for the evidence that would prove this extraordinary theory.

Chasing down clues to that lost golden age, Rudbeck combined the reasoning of Sherlock Holmes with the daring of Indiana Jones. He excavated what he thought was the acropolis of Atlantis, retraced the journeys of classical heroes, opened countless burial mounds, and consulted rich collections of manuscripts and artifacts. He eventually published his findings in a 2,500-page tome titled Atlantica, a remarkable work replete with heroic quests, exotic lands, and fabulous creatures.

Three hundred years later, the story of Rudbeck’s adventures appears in English for the first time. It is a thrilling narrative of discovery as well as a cautionary tale about the dangerous dance of genius and madness




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on April 14, 2007, 05:54:17 pm
Mark,

Thanks for the head's up on King's book.  I just ordered it from amazon for $1.09 + 3.49 shipping!

It's amazing how much of the Bock family saga he has hit on.  In the 1600s the story would have been hidden for about 550 years, but other sources may have been available to him as there was at least one other (Aser)family still viable at the time.   One has to wonder if Rudbeck's material was what so fascinated the NAZIs re the origin of Caucasians etc.  Having not read the book yet I don't know if he goes into that.  The review does not mention that aspect.  Also in googling I have not yet seen if Atlantica has been published in English.  Rudbeck would have been tickled to know that there is now evidence of Homer's epics having also taken place in Scandinavia!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 14, 2007, 10:11:21 pm
Hi Mark
I think I've heard of this book, but haven't come across it.  I think I'll order it as well.  I have just this minute finished reading "The Jesus Papers" by Baigent, and Holy Blood, Holy Grail is sitting on my desk just waiting!

I did have a thought (nah it didn't hurt too badly ;D) while reading The Jesus Papers.  It seems more and more that scholarly people, intellectuals, learned people, are realizing that the, what we'd call Vedic beliefs, might be more realistic than our poor mutilated modern church teachings. 

It would seem (to me anyway) that the Egyptian priests were initiated into the "mysteries", and only those who sincerely were searching for "truth" were allowed to be initiates.  The knowledge of these mysteries was kept secret.  I always wondered why.  I now think, because it would be very dangerous in say the hands of Hitler, to be able to travel in the astral and glean knowledge that could give him mega power.  That is what the initiates knew would happen if someone who was not sincere, found this information.  The Sons of Belial had this ability as did the Children of the Law of One.  The Children continued "living" this truth - that material assets in this world are uselss in the next - but that to love each other as one loves oneself, and to do good for others is the priority.  Basically developing a very high state of spiritual enlightenment. (Whereas the Sons of Belial destroyed almost the whole earth)

Ok - here's the thought.  The Egyptian priests very rarely took aliens into their confidence.  For SOME reason, they confided things to Solon - a Greek - that they didn't confide to anyone else.  I think perhaps Solon was an initiate.  Not necessarily of the Egyptian methods - but maybe so.  Maybe he learned on his own, maybe he belonged to an organization that had similar teachings.  He WAS the father of democracy - all for one and one for all.  The good of everyone.  I would not be surprised if in fact he himself hadn't visited the Akashic records, and saw the beginnings of "beings" on earth.  Saw how the entities as mentioned by Cayce and the Tibetan Monks lowered their vibrations to enter into the "material" world of earth, and lost the ability to raise their vibrations to get out again.  Saw the development of Atlantis and it's people and it's destruction.  Knew this would happen again if the elite were left in power, and was in a unique postion to do something about it.  Create democracy.  He may have written down what he learned in his Astral travels, and the "relations" that gave the story to Plato didn't know it.  Solon would not have discussed this with anyone except another initiate.

Socrates also seems to have come to the same realizations as the initiated.

Quote
Plato's dialogues portray Socrates as a teacher who denies having disciples, as a man of reason who obeys a divine voice in his head, and a pious man who is executed for the state's own expediency. Socrates disparages the pleasures of the senses, yet is excited by beauty; he is devoted to the education of the citizens of Athens, yet indifferent to his own sons

Whether Plato was aware of such spiritual enlightenment or not is hard to say.  He did TELL the story of Atlantis and Athens, with the emphasis on Atlantis for some reason, describing everything in minute detail.  But WHY he told it, is anyone's guess. Maybe those who read it that were initiates would recognize something in it.  Maybe there are hidden key words that trigger something in those who it is really meant for.  Who knows.

In The Jesus Papers, Baigent intimates basically the same thing about Jesus.  Jesus was initiated into the mysteries and went home to teach this simple life to his people.  Jesus was angry at the money changers for using the Temple for their transactions.  But he was also angry because he realized that the priests were not only charging people for "purging" their sins, but he realized that the priests KNEW the truth, and not only were they withholding this truth from the people, but were not in fact, practicing it themselves.  The money had become paramount.  He was not afraid of dying.  He looked forward to it because he knew he was going to a far better place.   (My opinion!)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 23, 2007, 03:56:42 pm
There were giants in those days:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AncientPeruvianSkull.jpg)

In the Peruvian Museum



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on April 23, 2007, 09:12:47 pm
Mark, Qoais,

I've read almost a half of Finding Atlantis and posted about it on the "Books on Atlantis" thread.

Rudbeck was amazing.  He opened burial mounds in northern Sweden and disenterred  "countless skeletons" over 8 feet tall and many over 10 feet tall!  There is your land of giants....  In the Viking section I wrote what he said about the "hyperboreans", as well.  Take a look for a whole new view of the question.   This book is wonderful, even though it slants to focusing on his so called "madness".   


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on April 23, 2007, 09:14:02 pm

Nefertiti   

(http://users.bigpond.net.au/bstone/images/Ageing_Nefertiti.JPG)

http://users.bigpond.net.au/bstone/images/Ageing_Nefertiti.JPG


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on April 23, 2007, 09:39:12 pm
Where Did Queen Nefertiti Come From?
By Ashok Malhotra 


Queen Nefertiti is one of two most famous queens of ancient Egypt, the other being Cleopatra. Her beauty, revealed in her famous limestone portrait busts - the loveliest masterpieces of Egyptian sculpture - has made her widely known around the world. Yet, in spite of her fame, historians are not unanimous about her origins. There appears to have been a deliberate attempt in ancient Egypt to erase the existence of her memory due to reasons that will be elaborated in this article.

Nefertiti is a mysterious figure. Some say, who she was, or who her parents were, is unknown and that she was just a commoner. Others have suggested that she was a Hittite princess, or that she was a Mittani princess from a neighboring kingdom, or a daughter of Ay, one the viziers to the pharaoh. However clarifying the matter would help to clarify other significant aspects of ancient Egyptian civilization.

An aspect of genetics, that appears not to have been given the attention it deserves, can help resolve this mystery. It is the elongated skull or the dolichocephalic heads that many members of the eighteenth Egyptian dynasty possessed. One of the reasons that historians ignored this feature at first is because some thought that it was just a feature of stylized art. Some have suggested that elongated skulls are not an unusual feature and prevail in some African and Nordic tribes. However here, it is not a question of just a long skull that some Africans or ancient Nordics could possess. Those are within the limits of normal human variation albeit on the longer side. Here we are talking of a skull shape that goes well beyond the normal human shape, to the point that biologists have attributed it to rare diseases, some even to extraterrestrial sources. Studies have shown that it is a rare occurrence indeed. Certain African tribes such as the Mangbetu and the Zande produce long skulls by binding the heads of young but this latter type of elongation produces quite a different effect. Moreover studies on Egyptian royal mummies have proved conclusively that the royal Egyptian dolichocephalic head is not a result of binding but rather a genetic family trait. The skull shape is so pronounced that many initially thought it was just an artistic feature until the actual mummies with such skulls were discovered. Some modern doctors postulated that this might be a result of a rare deforming disease. However that too has been ruled out since the trait is shared in the family by inheritance. Research work by David Childress in Peru, Adriano Forgione in Malta and Andrew Collins, (Andrew Collins. Gods of Eden. London: Headline Book, Pub. 1998) has led to a greater knowledge of the elongated skull. The first is that this is a rare anomaly that has been found since ancient times in other parts of the world as well. If those possessing the elongated skull belong to a certain race that has now become extinct cannot be said with certainty. Such skulls have been discovered not only in Egypt but also in Peru, Malta and the Mittani belt of northern Iraq and Syria and those possessing such skulls appear to have been associated with the royal or priestly classes. Except for Peru the other four locations are in close geographical proximity therefore the possibility that all of them arise from the same genetic source cannot be ruled out. The genetic source of the Peru skulls may also be the same since there does appear to be an old world origin of American civilizations.

Nefertiti too possessed such a skull and therefore the possibility of her being a commoner becomes unlikely. The second speculation that she was a Hittite princess is also ruled out by reference to available historical records. Rather she appears to be a Mittani princess daughter of the Mittani king Dashrath. The confusion has arisen because in historical records the Mittani have been confused with Hittites on occasions. Both Hittites and the Mittani belong to the Indo-European speaking Aryan races.

The Mitanni were a people of Aryan origin who ruled a vast kingdom with a largely Hurrian population in West Asia in the second millennium BC, for a brief historical epoch, sometime after 1500 BC.  It was a feudal state led by a warrior nobility in which apparently the royal women were trained along with men in horse riding, chariot racing and warfare. This training was provided for the eventuality that they might be called upon to rule if widowed. Such accounts are found in the Puranas and Vedas, ancient historical records of the community that the Mittani kings belonged too. The Rig-Veda, an ancient scripture of Mittani rulers recounts the story of a warrior, Queen Vishpla, who lost her leg in battle, was fitted with iron prosthesis, and returned to battle.  The Mittani kingdom in Syria was a foreign and brief one lasting for about 150 years. During their brief reign the relationship they established with Egypt has left a significant mark in history. It was a mutually beneficial alliance that permitted the Mittani to continue in foreign surroundings and provided a buffer to the Egyptians against Hittite incursions. The Mittani kingdom was eventually weakened by Hittites and returned to Syria in approximately 1330 BC.

While they ruled in the area, the Mittani Royal house developed close amicable relations with their western neighbors, the Egyptian Royal house through intermarriages as well as financial, military and religious alliances. For a period they became as one family. There appear to have been some alliance amongst the priestly class as well.  The daughter of King Artatama was married to Thutmose IV, Akhenaten's grandfather. His son, King Shuttarna in the early fourteenth century BC sent his daughter Kiluhepa to Egypt for a marriage with Pharaoh Amenhotp III. And the daughter of the King Dasharatha, the son of Shuttarna, Princess Tadukhipa, became the queen of Akhenaten. The Egyptian Pharaohs also introduced horses and chariots in Egypt because of their relationship with the Mittanis.

The archeological finds at Amarna shed  light on the relationship between the two royal families. In one Amarna letter, written to Akhenaten's mother, Tiye, my sister, the Mitannian king complains that Akhenaten has not sent gifts that his father had promised, "I had asked your husband for statues of solid cast gold, but your son has sent me plated statues of wood. With gold being dirt in your son's country, why have they been a source of such distress to your son that he has not given them to me? Is this love?"  Dushrath wrote to Tiye instead of to the pharaoh himself because he was more comfortable in writing to his sister than the king. The letter is hardly a diplomatic or royal letter. It is a family communication.

The origin of queen Tiye, like that of Nefertiti are also shrouded in controversy. It is very possible that the priests did not approve of the Egyptian family connection with Mittanis. They had good reasons for it. Primarily it was the introduction of foreign gods and unorthodox customs into Egypt as a result of these foreign queens. Queen Tiye too has been recognized for her unorthodoxy like Nefertiti. Historians have however admitted that there appears to be a relationship between Tiye and Nefertiti. There was. Tiye was Nefertiti’s aunt – the sister of her father Dashrath. The Amarna letters prove the close family ties between Dashrath and Tiye. Another reason for the discomfort of the priesthood was that before the appearance of the Mittanis, the priestly clan often supplied brides to the pharaohs. That helped them to maintain their power in Egypt, but this new source of royal brides must have been a source of much anguish to the priestly clan. They may have responded by claiming that the new brides were not royal but just from a common tribal source that had managed to grab a neighboring kingdom. This last assumption may have arisen from their ignorance of Mittani royal roots that have a history perhaps longer than even the Egyptian civilization as illustrated by their sacred texts, the Vedas.

Some historians have claimed that Tiye was the daughter of Yuaa, a priest of Mittani origin that her mother Tuaa, was of royal descent, from the royal family of Mittani. If this latter was the case then it would make Tiye a cousin of king Dasharath rather than a blood sister. However, the utter informality of communications between Dasharath and Tiye, along with historical records indicating that the Mittani kings had provided the Egyptian pharaohs with their daughters as queens suggests that Tiye was a blood sister of Dashrath, the Mittani princess Kiluhepa. In either case the Mittani royal origin of Tiye, and by extension that of Nefertiti appears to be of little doubt. Both bore a resemblance as revealed from their statues. Physical resemblance of relatives within the Mittani and Egyptian households appears to have been accentuated by inbreeding to the point that even Nefertiti and her husband bore a striking resemblance to each other. As compared to humans of other races, Akhinaten appeared effeminate and some suggested that he had no sexual organs because a **** statue of him depicted him without any. Akhinaten fathered many children and the absence of sexual organs in his statue is more likely a result of modesty. The ancient Egyptians were not as open about male frontal nudity as the Greeks were in a later civilization. In reality Akhinaten may have been rather well hung. However there is a possibility that his sexual chromosomes were XXY rather than XY, a result of inbreeding. The possibility arises because of the speculation that the elongated skull is primarily a feature imparted by the X chromosome and that its presence in males is only likely with an extra X. However a confirmation of this last hypothesis must await further advances in genetic science.

Betsy Bryan, a professor of Egyptian art and archaeology at Johns Hopkins,  found a statue of Tiye, Akhinaten’s mother, at the Mut temple. When the statue was removed it revealed itself as a queen of Amenhotep III, whose name appears repeatedly on the statue's crown.  Schwappach-Shirriff curator of the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in California told Discovery News that it is significant that the statue was found buried within a temple. " It shows that she indeed had strong religious ties because she was found in a temple ” she explained. Women at the time could not serve as priestesses, but both Bryan and Schwappach-Shirriff think the emerging evidence, such as this statue, indicate that at least some women may have been more central to certain Egyptian religions than previously thought. This new role of women in Egypt appears to be due to the foreign Mittani origin of these queens.

The Mittani royal families appears to be the source from which elongated skulls arrived in the Egyptian royal family. Thutmose III and Thutmose IV grandfather of Akhinaten did not possess such a skull as revealed by their statues at Luxor and Cairo Museums but his grandmother Queen Mutemwiya , Great Royal Spouse of King Thutmose IV and royal daughter of Artatama I, King of Mittani probably did. The Mittani queens were given new Egyptian names after their marriages to the Pharaohs. The change in names added to the fact that the Pharaohs had more than one wife has lead to the confusion as to which is which. Add to this the propaganda circulated by the priests who were the principal scribes of the time and the clouding of history becomes certain. The Pharaoh Akhinaten, who too possessed the elongated head, could have got this trait from his father, mother or grandmother. His daughters and son King Tutankhamen possessed the same skull as well. There was considerable inbreeding in the royal families and this tends to establish a genetic trait. The elongated skull was probably a common feature of the Egyptian and Mittani royal households and this would have lead them to consider that they had become one family.  Akhinaten had two wives Kiya and Nefretiti and scholars are unsure as to which of the two is the Mittani Princess. However, if one were to go by the elongated skull then it has to be Nefretiti who was the Mittani princess. Add to this the fact that she was a warrior queen who has been shown participating in chariot races and wielding weapons. She was not the typical Queen of Egypt. She was shown in very prominent positions in the Amarna art, and has even been shown in the warlike position of the Pharaoh - grasping prisoners' hair and breaking their skulls with a mace. Order in ancient society was maintained by ruthless punishments. This was very unlike Egyptian princesses but not unexpected of a Mittani Aryan one.

In ancient times it was not uncommon for queens and princesses to have a personal nurse who stayed with the princesses well into adulthood often accompanying them into a new household after their marriage. The nurse often played the role of a substitute mother if the real mother was not available. If a princess came from the Mittani kingdom, it is expected that she be not sent alone to a foreign land but along with maids and her personal nurse. That is the least a royal father could do when sending his daughter to another country. Did such a nurse accompany Akhineten’s Mittani wife into Egypt? One lady in the palace did claim to be her nurse. It was Tey who never claimed to be the queen’s mother but did claim to be her nurse. Tey is also known to have had her own daughter Mutnodmjet born from a marriage to the prominent Egyptian Aye. Nefertiti would have regarded the daughter of Tey in a sisterly way and one inscription reads, "Mutnodjmet, may she live like Re forever, sister of the King's Great Wife. Therefore, it is clear that Nefertiti regarded her Nurse’s daughter as her sister. There is little doubt that Mutnodjmet was Aye’s daughter because there are prominent depictions of the two together. The fact that Nefertiti had a personal nurse, who is well known in Egypt, is also evidence against her being from a common or unknown background. If it was claimed by some that Nefertiti’s background is not known in spite of the fact that her nurse continued to be present as the wife of a prominent personality is an indication that a deliberate attempt has been made to ignore Nefertiti’s background. Aye even became a Pharaoh at a later stage after the death of the last heir of the eighteenth dynasty.

There are other bits of evidence that support the theory that Nefertiti was a Mittani princess. Nefertiti means the beautiful one who has come, signifying a princess from afar. During his rule Akhinaten probably due to the Aryan influence of his mother and wife attempted to establish a new religion, that of monotheistic worship with the Sun as the symbol of God’s power, to the utter dismay of the priesthood. This attempt resulted in an open revolt by the priestly class.

The striking resemblance between Nefertiti’s portraits and those of her young husband has prompted some scholars to suggest that she was his half, or even his full sister. Brother and sister marriages were common in Egypt. But we know from historical records that this was not the case here. Rather if the princess were the daughter of Dushratta, then her aunt would be the mother, and her grandmother the sister of the grandmother of the King, a relationship even closer than cousins and there would be nothing strange in their resembling each other as brother and sister.

Their reign was brief. Akhinaten ruled just 17 years, and within a few years after his death in 1336 B.C., Neferititi too died, apparently murdered, struck from behind at an unguarded moment. Tut ruled for about ten years before he died in 1322 B.C. The Egyptian vizier Aye was perhaps the de facto ruler initially using King Tut as the figurehead on the throne.  As Tut grew up it is likely that he, like his father, was starting to have ideas of his own. His mentors particularly Aye, could not tolerate another heretic and may have organized his murder by poisoning or another device. Aye is portrayed as a person who acted in a fatherly manner to Nefertiti but this may have been just a cunning front that Aye maintained to retain his foothold in the palace. Aye proclaimed himself Pharaoh after the death of Tut since no other heirs were left. He is the shadowy figure who may have organized the end of the eighteenth Egyptian dynasty in order to gain power. He too died within three years in 1319. A commoner Horemheb followed Aye to the throne and ruled for 27 years, obliterating every record of Nefertiti and Akhenaten that he could.  The old orthodoxy was restored. Akhenaten's enemies soon smashed his statues, dismantled his temples, and set out to expunge all memory of him and Nefertiti from Egypt's historical record. The eighteenth Egyptian dynasty ended with King Tut. Two other outside rulers – Aye and Horemheb are shown grouped with the eighteenth dynasty because of a lack of a better placement.

Archives found in the Hittite capital of Hattusa in Anatolia indicate that Nefrititi wrote a desperate letter to the Hittite king saying her husband had died and begging him to send her one of his sons so that she would not have to wed a "servant." and one who would rule over Egypt as the king. The letter indicated that Neferititi maintained the reigns of power as long as she lived. An Egyptian princess was more likely to seek an alliance closer at hand. It is also a written proof that the eighteenth dynasty regarded themselves as a class apart from other Egyptians regarding the latter as a servant class and believed in marrying within royalty rather than outside of it. If Nefertiti was indeed of common Egyptian origin than such a statement is unlikely from her.  The Hittite king obliged by sending his son, however the son was way laid and killed at the border leading to a bloody war. This indicates the intrigue that was taking place in the palace at that time. There were few, other than Aye who could be privy to the communication. Only a Mittani princess could have dared to write to a Hittite king with a proposal for marriage and only an insider like Aye would know.

Nefertiti did not behave as a commoner or a person from anything less than a royal family right from the start. She ruled by the side of Akhinaten as long as he lived and after his death added the suffix Aten to her name, adorned a male dress and took charge of the kingdom as a Pharaoh true to the tradition of Vedic Aryans. The royal heirs Smenkhare and Tutankhamen were too young to become kings right away, but were possibly regarded by the orthodoxy as the real Pharaohs. Historians are unsure as to whether Tutankhamen was the son of Nefertiti or queen Kiya but it was probably the latter because one of Nefertiti’s daughter’s was married to King Tut and that would seem more reasonable if they were half brother and sister. Both Smenkhare and Tutankhamen possessed the royal skull. Tut was both a son and son-in-law of Nefertiti.

There is no evidence whatsoever in historical records to suggest that Nefertiti was not the Mittani princess, and while she lived she ruled like a warrior queen true to the race of warriors she had descended from. The pharaohs of Egypt added a divine suffix to their names. The suffix declared them as the divine representatives of the god that became a part of their name. As a queen princess Tadukhipa adopted the name Nefertiti and Nefretari, “the beautiful one has arrived”. As a Pharaoh she changed the name to NeferNeferaten – the beautiful, beautiful one from the Sun God”. In recent years her hidden tomb and injured mummy has been discovered in the Valley of the Kings, restoring the recognition she deserved. The present study restores the recognition of her origins that ancient Egyptian scribes tried so hard to delete from Egyptian memories. Their attempts were understandable. She was a foreigner and an equal partner with her young husband in attempting to destroy the ancient religion of Egypt and replace it with a new one. It is hoped that the present study will contribute towards restoring her rightful place in the history of human civilizations.


The author Dr. Ashok Malhotra holds a doctorate in engineering from UBC Canada.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 23, 2007, 10:28:06 pm
Hi Rock
I ordered the book too, and thought it would be here by now, but not yet.

Majeston
That's a great article.  I read where a skeleton had been found that was almost 20 feet tall, and one tooth weighed 12-15 pounds.  Boy, those heads must have been heavy.  There was a pharoah that was built kind of wierd with a wide heavy bottom and sagging skin,and they said he had "elephantitis".  I can't remember what causes it.  Nefertiti doesn't look "beautiful" to me ;D  She looks like she might have had this elephantitis also.  Maybe they meant beautiful personality.  That pharoah that looked wierd, it seems to me he was well loved by the people.  Maybe they were accustomed to seeing the "gods" look like that. 

If these "gods" WERE so gigantic, I guess that makes US the faeiry people.  :D We would look like little people to them, I have a feeling there wasn't very many of these giants either.  They may have lived for a thousand years or more, but from the skeletons that have been found, if there were say hundreds of thousands of them, their skeletons should be all over the place.  Unless they packed up and left just a few behind.

In the Bible we hear about Goliath the giant and how David killed him.  I suspect that even by that time, there were only a few in the world.  Goliath didn't sound like he was too bright either.  Just took it for granted he'd win because he was big.  All brawn and no brains, big head or no  ;D
No wonder we were used as "slaves".  Can you imagine how big a crop has to be brought in just to feed these guys?  If these WERE Anunnaki, that would explain why there's so few of them.  Or, if they were like Adam and Eve as described in the Urantia Book, they were very tall, but only ate nuts and fruits I think it was, because they had a secondary system that they charged from the Tree of Life.  If we could find a mummy so we could get an autopsy, then we'd know if the UB was telling it like it was!  Right Majeston?



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 24, 2007, 02:22:12 am
Would I be out of line to say Nefertiti came from Atlantis ?   


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 24, 2007, 03:23:45 am
Hi Mark
You know- I've been thinking about Atlantis.  Even if there actually was a "country" or city or empire of Atlanteans, where the heck did they come from in the first place?  I know that isn't a new thought, but when I read, and read all the books about the ancient civilizations that raised up and fell, and this tribe married that tribe and the other tribe took over that place etc. etc.  If - from the skeletons that have been discovered so far, scientists say WE (being earthlings) only developed our modern body at such and such a time, WHAT or WHO were the Atlanteans? (or the giants) I don't suppose that was their real designated name either.  I mean, only Plato and Cayce used the word.  Since Georgeos has said that so much of the Greek translations were wrong, as in the Greeks, if they didn't know a meaning of a word in another language, they gave a name meaning something to them in their language. There are so many computations and permutations of the word Atlantis, it boggles the brain.

BUT - if peoples came here from another planet, way back when we first learned to stand up-right, who's to say what they looked like originally?  How the hell a 20 foot tall being could breed with five foot women is beyond me, but say we take the genetic engineering for what it's worth, the Anunnaki supposedly couldn't breed as fast as we could and before you know it, us little twinkies were breeding like mice.  Given that then - the two races were obviously compatible.  Although supposedly the Anunnaki did the hit and miss thing a few times and that's why we have the myths of centuars, mermaids, etc.  I'm not so sure about that though.  Maybe if scientists keep fooling around with this stem-cell research, we'll end up having these mythical beings all over again.  Although I suppose in our day and age we would euthanize the poor things at birth.

Anyway, if we follow the stories in the Bible and folk legends, there WERE giants in those days - so who were they?  They were considered "gods" probably just because they were bigger and had better technology - but hey - just as good a reason as any to worship them  I guess.  So - if they were giants, and bred "down" and one of the features was the enlongated head, then I suppose Nefertiti was a decendant of the "gods".  So - if those were the Atlanteans, then she'd be from Atlantis ;D  Or her forefathers were anyway.  Atlantis might even be the name of their home planet for heavens sake!  They had to COME from somewhere, since we ourselves haven't discovered anything in our own heritage to say WE were giants at one time.  OR maybe this planet is seeded every so many hundred thousands of years, and the leaving peoples, keep a few back to train the new ones up.  Maybe those giants weren't "gods" at all, but a race of humanoid that was seeded long before we were.  But the fact remains, there were giants, and those giants were supposedly "gods" and those "gods" interbred with the indiginous peoples of earth.  The Bible doesn't call them Atlanteans, although the Bible doesn't really say a lot about the giants except that Goliath was one.  We still have throw-backs to them every once in a while.  The tallest man today I think, is 7'8" and he'd be a midget compared to someone 20 feet tall.   It does sound as though, wherever they came from, they landed in the Middle East and headquartered there somewhere.  Perhaps they had an empire, although perhaps we should be following a skeleton trail to find the giant skeletons so we'd know where they really went.  I think the mounds in the States should be uncovered and everything investigated.  If it IS a burial mound, the dead people aren't going to complain -  they're long gone. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 24, 2007, 03:40:29 am
http://atlansfound.gq.nu/

Check out this web site.  The guy says he's found Atlantis, as has the proof.  He's apparently making a video or something of all the places he's been and has found the underground tunnels and stuff.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mark of Australia on April 24, 2007, 04:36:37 am
Hi Qoais
           I checked that site ,  it seemed to be a frantic jumble of barely coherent ranting,,  lol , it hurt my eyes. but I wont just dismiss it, I am intrigued about the giants claim ,as for his evidence ,,we shall see.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 24, 2007, 11:22:22 am
Hi Mark
I thought it had too many "words" too, kind of get's one confused as to what is really going on.  I'm not sure what his point is :)  It will probably end up being an explanation of all the odds and sods he's found - not like a real city or anything.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 24, 2007, 08:02:17 pm
Hi Rock
My book arrived this morning and all I can say is OH MY GOD!!!!  We need this type of mind today!

I chuckled out loud when I came across this on page 146 - for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, the book is called Finding Atlantis by David King - telling about a genius from the 1600's Olof Rudbeck - which I'm sure a lot of you know about already.  But when I read this bit I thought of Georgeos ;D ;D ;D

"While he was on the subject, there was another matter that needed to be cleared up.  Plato spoke of Atlantis as an "island", but Rudbeck believed it was not quite so simple.  Going back to the original language of the philosopher, Rudbeck noted that Plato used the Greek word Nesos to describe Atlantis.  Scholoars almost invariably translated ths word as "island", though, he noted, this did not have to be the case.  Nesos could also mean "peninsula", and for support, he simply pointed to the Peloponnesus in southern Greece."

Poor old Georgeos, here he is , thinking he's the only one EVER to realize about the word Nesos, and here's Rudbeck doing it back in the 1600's!!!!!!!!  I love it.

I also love this part about the Pillars of Heracles.  Aaah Georgeos - eat your heart out:  Page 148

Meanwhile, other distinguishing features of Atlantis were starting to cause more problems.  For one, Plato was pretty clear that Atlantis was situated near the famous Pillars of Hercules, traditionally located at the Strait of Gibraltar, the narrow waterway separating southern Spain from northern Africa.  According to ancient myth, the hero Hercules had set them up as the "far-famed witnesses of the farthest limit of voyaging".  Given such a position, it is no surprise that many had looked for the lost world in the mid-Atlantic or the Americas.

But Rudbeck soon had a proposal of his own.  Forced back to the drawing board, he started repositioning his map of Atlantis.  Placing the capital at Old Uppsala, with the kingdom stretching northward to the Arctic Kimmernes, the home of the Cimmerians at the halls of Hades and down to the southrn tip of Skane, Rudbeck must have watched with amazement.  Right in front of his eyes, he saw the Pillars of Hercules.

The answer seemed so clear, so obvious, that he wondered why no one had proposed it before: the real pillars must have been the Oresund, the strategic waterway that separated the kingdoms of Denmark and Sweden, and one of the most perilous straits in Europe.  Dutch and English traders knew the spot well, and had long been forced to pay hefty tolls to the Crown that controlled this enviable gateway to the Baltic.  The narrow strip of sea was where, incidentally, Hamlet's castle was supposedly located, and where the lumbering Kronborg stands guard today.

Although he had no small confidence in his own mapmaking abilities, Rudbeck's proposal that the Pillars of Hercules lay in Scandinavia was radical to say the least.  Why should one make recourse to a Nordic location, in the face of such widespread, almost unanimous, opinion that the pillars were found at the conjunction of Spain and northern Africa?

I LOVE THIS MAN'S THINKING - very logical

pAGE 150

After all, if the pillars had been set up to honor the glory of Hercules and mark the so-called limits of human endeavor, then why place them in a location where ancient peoples "sailed past them every year"?  The far edge of the Mediterranean was certainly not the end of the world; ask the Phoenicians, ask the Carthaginians, ask anyone who presumably traded for the valuable tin found in Great Britain.  This traditional Gibraltar location hardly made sense in either geographical or psychological terms.  Sweden, on the other hand, offered another possibility.  Here rough, frigid, sometimes icy waters made sailing difficult if not impossilble at certain times of the year, a fact that made this Scandinavian option a more likely place for the "limits of the ancient world" than Gibralter.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on April 24, 2007, 11:23:33 pm
Fantastic huh??  Have you checked out the Kajaani blog at www.bocksaga.de ....?  This is the Finnish angle to the puzzle.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 24, 2007, 11:47:47 pm
I am very happy to hear about this expedition.  Rudbec MAY have been right ;D  He worked so hard all his life on the Atlantis project and faced such adversity thru it all.  He was very scientific in his research and actual physical undertakings to see if his theory held promise.  I can't really see how people could think he was "mad".  I think he was well in control of his faculties and obviously there were people who were less gifted who were jealous. 

The story of the argonauts sailing north was discussed in AR but I didn't pay it too much attention.  This would seem more logical, given the details in the story, than it would be for them to sail the Med.  Also, Plato saying that the "power" came from outside the straits, certainly fits with a northern location.  If people were already sailing to England for tin, I'm sure they also sailed the northern coast of Spain and knew about Scandinavia. They did sail the coastlines mostly back then. The Argonauts may have taken a different route, but ended up there just the same.  Obviously they could do it by traveling the rivers.  If Schliemann read Rudbec, perhaps it gave him the idea to follow that trail and find Troy.

Rudbec may not have found Atlantis, but he certainly contributed a lot with his research.  He himself had trouble with the concentric rings, but it is possible that this was an exageration.  It could have been like he said, with all the waterways there are around Sweden. Paulo Riven thinks the concentric circles were made by the "founders" space ship when it touched down.  Mind you, I can't understand a third of what Riven says ;D

Lets think about the skeletons Rudbec found that were 8-10 feet tall.  If other stories are correct, then that means these people were already "downsizing" hee hee, from their original 20 foot height.  Therefore, I think, we have to look elsewhere for the original, originals. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 25, 2007, 12:20:06 am
Poor old Georgeos, here he is , thinking he's the only one EVER to realize about the word Nesos, and here's Rudbeck doing it back in the 1600's!!!!!!!!  I love it.

Since Georgeos has been reading my posts in this thread, and has opened a new thread at AR to take me to task, I will hereby apologize for the above comment.  From his posts at AR it seems I got confused with what he had found thru his own research and what he credited to other writers.

Quote
Author  Topic: To Qoais... About Nêsos = Peninsula and my Theory... 
Georgeos Díaz-Montexano

Member
Member # 3100

Rate Member   posted 04-24-2007 07:34 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Qoais... About Nêsos = Peninsula and my Theory...

Qoais:, I see that you use the other forum to make fun of of my theories, because in this forum of AR, you have not been able to maintain nor a single false idea, or absurd, about Atlantis. All its absurd ideas, and their full hypotheses of fantasies, and speculations, without no scientific foundation, all!, I could refute them to traverse, of the paleographical proofs; nevertheless, apparently, its pride was left a little hurt, and for that reason now you use the other Forum, where I am not for defending my honor and my prestige like investigator; a forum that in addition is a pathetic shade of this forum of AR, that is, a mere copy of this Forum of AR (that is original and the one of greater prestige of all Internet).

In its last message, you one makes fun of of my saying that I thought that I had been first in observing that Nêsos can be translated like peninsula, but that you now discover that another European medieval author, had already discovered before I to it.

You is mistaken! , I never said that I was first, nor the only one, on the contrary, to argue that Nêsos also can be translated as Peninsula always I mentioned that this peninsula meaning was in the oldest dictionaries, lexicons, and medieval codices, and in some cases I mentioned until the names of some Spanish authors, who long before that the author that you just have discovered, had defended the translation of Nêsos like peninsula. In this same Forum five years exist many articles published in the last, that demonstrate that what I say is certain.

Never! I said that I had been first in discovering that Nêsos can be translated like peninsula, but is certain that I have been the one that has written more on this point, and the one that proofs has contributed more to demonstrate this fact.

Do you do not feel no shame for to lie of that way in my against?

Do you do not feel no shame for to try to despise my work, and to try to reduce merits to my investigations, by means of lies, and calumnies like these?

[ 04-24-2007, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Georgeos Díaz-Montexano ]
 
Here is my reply:

Posts: 531 | From: Madrid | Registered: May 2006  |  Logged: 82.158.156.143 |   
 
Qoais

Member
Member # 3091

Member Rated:
   posted 04-24-2007 11:13 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Georgeos - I apologize if I've misquoted you. My pride is not hurt, and I've said it before, that I'm not looking for scientific proof, I'm looking for logic. I wanted to discuss all kinds of theories with others who are interested in the same things. The "other" forum, offers that. You were invited to join that forum and chose not to, and you know the reasons why.

The whole point I was having some fun with, was that Nesos COULD also refer to Sweden just like Rudbec figured, and as you state for Iberia. You take everything as a personal insult and it is very exhausting. If you wanted to refute anything I said, you could have done so in the other forum. You have obviously joined it, but don't post in it. I'm sure you've also read the thread entitled "What do you think about Georgeos Diaz-Montexano theory". There are 1189 posts in that thread, all venting about your attitude, so don't lay the blame at MY door alone. I'm sure you've also noticed the poll in that thread asking people if they think your theory was based on serious scientific research. I was the only one who voted yes. So Georgeos - grow up. There is no need to put down the other forum. It's an excellent one. For someone who professes to be so professional, you certainly act in a childish manner. 
 

 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on April 27, 2007, 07:13:42 pm


Majeston,

That was a great article about Nefertiti, Akhenaton and the Mittani Royal Line.

Very enlightening, as usual.  Thank you.

Love and Light,
Bianca


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 27, 2007, 07:46:51 pm
Hi Majeston
Where DO you come up with all this neat stuff?

Quote
The Mitanni were a people of Aryan origin who ruled a vast kingdom with a largely Hurrian population in West Asia in the second millennium BC, for a brief historical epoch, sometime after 1500 BC.

This doesn't exactly explain much does it?  They have their own kingdom, but it's mostly Hurrian population.   Sounds like they themselves, didn't have a large "tribe".  And yet, even tho they had these elongated heads, they were royalty.  Where did we get the idea of "royalty" in the first place?  Did the "gods" teach us this heirarchy stuff?  SOMETHING from way back, when indiginous peoples were still walking stooped over and some other "race" from somewhere was superior?  Our science isn't showing that tho is it? Unless we accept that the giants WERE the gods.   I can't figure out why thru inbreeding, the head would become enlongated.  Not that I know anything about that subject. :D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 01, 2007, 05:48:58 pm
Some time ago I posted a picture of a "mosaic" that was found under a city in Rome which appears to be rather ancient.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ArtistsrenditionofMosaic.jpg)

Going to the site Danaus linked us to under "giants"

http://descegy.bibalex.org/Zoom.html?b=1&v=15&p=26&t=undefined


I paged thru and came to plate 35.  This reminded me very much of the mosaic, not in exactness but in the idea of it, and standing at a different viewpoint:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AncientAlexandria016.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 05, 2007, 05:39:13 pm
Does this look more like the mosaic?   First Temple of Solomon.I know some people are hoping that mosaic is of Atlantis, what with the water all about, but it could be any city on the coast really.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/FirstTempleofSolomon.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 05, 2007, 05:41:32 pm
Or Second Temple of Herod:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/HerodsTemple.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 12, 2007, 01:13:22 am
I know a lot of you folks in this forum are much more learned than I am, and I know there's been discussions about the age of writing and the alphabet, and I'm sure you've all seen this before, but I just thought I'd stick it in here anyway. 

BACK
THE GLOZEL TABLETS
By R. Cedric Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 
It is now clear that the history of alphabetic writing dates back much further than once believed. While scriptographers once attributed the invention of the alphabet to the Phoenicians of 1600 B.C. (ancient tradition named Cadmus, King of Tyre, as the inventor), other examples keep showing up which are much older than this. Since many are as yet undeciphered, no one can be absolutely certain which ones (if any) represent a form of writing.

 

However, the discovery of the Glozel tablets on a farm near Vichy, France created a controversy that raged on for years. Since the characters incised on these tablets strongly resemble the so-called Phoenician, they ostensibly represent an alphabetic form of writing.


I am about to relate a story--the details of which were painstakingly ferreted out by John Philip Cohane (1977), a graduate of Yale University--which may go down in the annuls of scholarly history as the most infamous blunder ever committed by men of learning.


The scene was Glozel, near Vichy in southwestern France, the year 1921. A large number of inscribed clay tablets (along with some clay bricks, pottery, and stone axes of Magdalenian extraction) had been unearthed in a field by a 16-year-old French lad by the name of Emile Fradin. Writing on the tablets was similar to Phoenician, and the pottery incised with pictures of mammoths and panthers, both of which had been extinct in Europe for some 12,000 years.


Glozel Tablet with incised "Phoenician" characters.


A vehement controversy ensued among authorities. Both the authenticity and the antiquity of the artifacts were vigorously debated. Finally in 1927 a worldwide body of Academicians was convened to settle the dispute. The blue chip panel concluded that the Glozel discoveries were outright forgeries, manufactured and planted by the young French lad to be "accidentally" discovered. The decision brought bitter disillusionment and anquish to young Fradin that can never be recompensed.


Two things of extreme importance should be mentioned here: 1) this decision took place before our modern dating methods--such as Carbon-14, fission-track, fluorine, thermoluminescence, and paleomagnetism--were developed; 2) the infamous Piltdown controversy was still raging and the anthropological community was in the throes of extreme embarrassment. The Piltdown fiasco wasn't settled until 1950 when fluorine testing exposed it as a hoax.


The academic argument against the validity of the find was the depiction of extinct animals alongside Phoenician-style writing. How could someone be using Phoenician characters before the Phoenicians had invented them? To accept such an anachronism would be folly, and could throw the whole neatly organized picture of the history of writing awry.


On the other hand, this question occurs to me: How could anyone carve a picture of an animal he has never seen? Moreover, the agreement between the Magdalenian artifacts and the depiction of Ice Age animals favor the antiquity of the find. It was not until forty-five years later that anything constructive was done to quell the controversy.


During the late 1960s Mr. Gavn Majdahl, a physicist on the staff of Denmark's Atomic Energy Commission Research Laboratory, had been doing research on the development and application of a dating method recently invented in Britain. Known today as thermoluminescence dating, it is especially suited for dating clay artifacts. The development was being financed by Denmark's Governmental Research Council and the Atomic Energy Center.


Having learned of this, Mr. Sture Eilow, a Swedish amateur archeologist, approached Majdahl with the idea of using the new technique to determine the date of the Glozel materials. Majdahl liked the suggestion, and agreed to do it.


The tests were conducted on the Glozel artifacts, and lo, all the "experts" had been wrong! The tests proved conclusively that the Glozel material was from the Magdalenian period. Incredulous experts took the material to Scotland to undergo another battery of tests, this time at Edinburgh's prestigious Natural Museum of Antiquities. This series of tests totally confirmed the first ones, putting the antiquity and authenticity of the Glozel artifacts beyond question! Emile Fradin had been vindicated after nearly fifty years of humiliation.


In an AP news release (28 August 1975) Majdahl commented: "It is fascinating, of course, to perhaps bring full rehabilitation for Emile Fradin, now 68. But Glozel just happened to provide the first dramatic demonstration of the potentials of the new technique" (Cohane, 1977). Thermoluminescence dating has been in use now for almost forty years in the field of archeology, and has proved to be an invaluable tool for dating clay materials.


Needless to say, not many people in the world are aware of the end product of this heated controversy, even though the conclusion was reported in the press and apologies made to the aged Mr. Fradin. In spite of these developments, scriptographers and other related authorities are continuing down the well-beaten path that the Sumerians were the inventors of writing, and that the Phoenicians were the inventors of the alphabet.


As you can see by perusing the other related articles on this web site, archeological excavations of Upper Paleolithic Cro-Magnon sites have produced numerous examples of sophisticated written forms representing the communication of ideas, which lends support to the conclusion that the Glozel tablets represent an "alphabetical" form of writing dating back to Atlantean times.


The possibility that the Atlanteans had a form of alphabetic writing is significant, even if it represents a syllabary (Gelb, 1974), simply because an accomplishment such as this is indicative of an advanced stage of civilization. In other articles on this web site I have shown evidence that the Cro-Magnon people were extremely artistic, practiced agriculture, domesticated animals, and used boats (implying navigational and sailing skills). They were also accomplished in mathematics, medicine and astronomy. In other words, the Cro-Magnon people were civilized before ever landing on the shores of Europe and North Africa.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/GlozelTablet.jpg)

Personally, I think the thing should be turned 90 degrees one way or the other, since it seems that they wrote in columns in ancient times, and if it's turned, the columns look more precise.
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Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 12, 2007, 01:21:19 am
 
 
SUPPORTING EVIDENCE
By R. Cedric Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
In spite of the tradition carried down to us that King Cadmus of Tyre invented the alphabet from whole cloth (Jackson, 1981), there are equally ancient and venerable traditions which point to a western, rather than an eastern, origin of our alphabet. For instance, Diodorus (Lib. Hist., Book V) records an important alternative:

"Men tell us . . . that the Phoenicians were not the first to make the discovery of letters; but that they did no more than change the form of the letters; whereupon the majority of mankind made use of the way of writing them as the Phoenicians devised."

In the same work Diodorus mentions that the Phoenicians had discovered a marvelous Atlantic island during their excursions outside Gibraltar. Atlantis was long gone, of course, but the survivors of that catastrophe still existed on the Canary Islands (and possibly others) and it is known that the Guanches inhabiting those islands possessed a system of characters which the Phoenicians could have commandeered.


Manetho (250 B.C.) also recorded that the Egyptians themselves derived the elements of their writing from an island in the west. Ancient Egyptian papyri also attribute the invention of writing to the god Thoth who ruled a "Western Domain". These same papyri declare that Thoth came from an Island of Flame (Atlantis was very volcanic, and perished in flames). The Turin Papyrus (1700 B.C.) lists Thoth as one of the ten kings who reigned during the "reign of the gods," more than 12,000 years ago.


Strabo, the Greek historian, records a tradition that Tartessos (on the coastal tip of Spain) had written records that go back 7,000 years before their time (500 B.C.), which is equivalent to saying that writing was being utilized on the Atlantic coast of Spain 9,500 years ago.


These are strong traditions suggesting the existence of an older, unnamed culture in the west that had long been familiar with the art of writing. We cannot help but remember the 12,000-year-old Azilian painted-rocks as well as the 20,000-year-old bone calendars (Marshack, 1972). Both of these are possibly a form of writing according to experts in anthropology and paleography.


Can a relationship be demonstrated between some of the better known western alphabetic (actually syllabic) writing systems and our Glozel prototype? The answer is, "Yes!"


First, there are the inscriptions on the Canary Islands (especially those on Hierro and Grand Canary): the script resembles Numidian and appears to be composed of some twenty four characters and a number of ideograms (Cline, 1953).


Although usually called an alphabet, the ancient Numidian (Berber) writing is actually a syllabary (Gelb, 1974). The Tuaregs of North Africa speak Tamachek, but their written language, T'ifinagh, is also syllabic and is closely related to the Basque language. T'ifinagh is being forgotten before it can be either properly classified or translated (Friedrich, 1957).


Even the Aymara Indians living along the shores of Lake Titicaca in South America were in possession of an ideographic form of writing when the Spanish conquistadors appeared on the scene (in spite of a ban on writing put in effect by the 63rd Inca ruler, Topu Gaui Pachacuti). Some of these signs correspond exactly to the characters found on the Canary Island inscriptions and among the Tuaregs and Berbers in North Africa (Wilkins, 1946).


Does all this sound familiar somehow? Basques, Berbers, Tuaregs, Guanches, and even the Aymaras of South America? We are talking about the same areas, the same people, the same language, and the same culture called "Atlantic" by learned scholars. In other words, our Cro-Magnon-Atlanteans.


There must have been a "western" prototype (which I believe we have in the Glozel Tablets), completely independent of the eastern writing system which evolved later in Sumar, for all these "Atlantic" systems to be so much alike.


Prof. W. Z. Ripley (1899) agrees: "A system of writing seems also to have been invented in western Europe as far back as the Stone Age." We will demonstrate the validity of this startling statement in the article entitled Ancient Alphabets Compared.


Since Cro-Magnoid skulls have also been unearthed in South America, it would be interesting if some competent linguist should inquire into possible linguistic links between the Basque (Euskara) and South American (e.g., Quechua and/or Aymara) languages. Any such study should, of necessity, be based largely on structural and syntactical correspondences rather than vocabulary similarities.
 
 
Bibliography

Champollion, Jean Francois, (translator) The Turin Papyrus, 1700 B.C.
Cline, Walter, "Berber Dialects and Berber Scripts," Southwestern Journal of Anthropology,
Vol. 9, 1953.
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History (Oldfather's translation), Book V, 8 B.C.
Friedrich, Johannes, "Extinct Languages," Philosophical Library Inc., New York, 1957.
Gelb, Isaac J., "A Study of Writing," The University of Chicago Press, Chicago & London, 1974.
Jackson, Donald, "The Story of Writing," Taplinger Publishing Co., New York, 1981.
Manetho, Egyptian Dynasties, circa. 250 B.C.
Marshack, Alexander, "The Roots of Civilization," McGraw-Hill Book Co., New York, 1972.
Ripley, W. Z., "The Races of Europe," D. Appleton & Co., New York, 1899.
Strabo of Amasya, Geography (63 B.C.-24 A.D), translated by H. L. Jones, Loeb edition, 1917-1932.
Wilkins, Harold T., "Mysteries of Ancient South America," Rider & Co., London, 1946.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Akelius on May 12, 2007, 01:23:11 am
I've read that article many times, Qoais, and I am just astonished that scholars don't realize that the Azilians had developed their own writing.  Here is the chart from your article:

(http://www.atlantisquest.com/tab4.gif)

If that isn't writing, I don't know what is.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 12, 2007, 01:25:52 am
 
ANCIENT ALPHABETS COMPARED
By R. Cedric Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Have you ever wondered why our system of letters is called an alphabet? The word is merely the combination of the Greek names of the first two characters of the Greek alphabet, alpha and beta. But where did the Greeks get these names? Why call the letters alpha, beta, gamma, delta, etc., in the first place?


These are merely the Greek variation of the Phoenician names aleph, beth, gimel, deleth, etc., and these are actual words in the Phoenician language for ox, house, camel, door, etc. These names were most likely applied to the characters in this manner: 1) the characters were simplifications of earlier pictograms; 2) each character so-named was the sound for that original object (acrophonic principle).


For years the scholarly world had been in complete disarray when it came to the question of the origin of the characters. That the Greek alphabet (and most later European alphabets) is basically made up from the earlier Phoenician letters is clear. But the big question is, where did the Phoenicians get these letters?


For want of a plausible theory, Dr. Isaac J. Gelb, professor at the Oriental Institute and the Department of Linguistics of the University of Chicago, once suggested that the entire Phoenician system of signs was an arbitrary invention throughout. (Gelb, 1974) Even more recently, the discovery of the Proto-Sinaitic inscriptions in Egypt has been alleged as the sole source.


Let's take an entirely different tack. Let's assume the Glozel Tablets--now proven to be authentic, and infinitely older than the Phoenician (Cohane, 1977)--are the key to the puzzle. Let's make a comparison between several "western" systems and the Phoenician letters.

 
Table showing comparison with "western" alphabets dating back to 12,000 B.C.

The Azilian, Iberian and Berber character-sets all correspond somewhat to that found on the Glozel Tablets. The "Proto-Sinaitic" inscriptions discovered on cliffs near Luxor, Egypt may represent a contributing factor. And even though the correspondences of several of the characters with its associated "hieroglyphic original" seem somewhat strained, there is little doubt that certain Egyptian hieroglyphs contributed to the overall Proto-Canaanite system.


My contention is that the final Phoenician (an "eastern" system) was cribbed mainly from a "western". However it should be mentioned, that just as in the hieroglyph/sinai conversion, the character-shapes correspond--but not necessarily their phonic values.


Professor Johannes Friedrich, archeologist and linguist at the Free University of Berlin, implies that the Berber alphabet of North Africa may have been a relatively late invention--the earliest inscriptions appearing only in the 2nd century B.C.--therefore some of its characters may have been based on the Phoenician (Punic) script, rather than vice versa.


He writes: "The political and cultural independence of the Numidians manifested itself also in the creation of an alphabetic . . . script which has been preserved in our days in more than a thousand inscriptions." He adds: "A variant of this script is still being used today by the desert tribes of the Tuareg." (Friedrich, 1957) The independence spoken of was acquired with the backing of the Romans early in the 2nd century B.C.


But what about the inscriptions discovered among the Berbers of the Canary Islands? In 1878 French anthropologist Dr. Rene R. Verneau discovered rock carvings in the ravines of Las Balos that bear similarities with Libyan or Numidic writing from the time of Roman occupation or earlier. In other locations the older Libyco-Berber (T'ifinagh) script has been identified. (Verneau, 1881)

   
Three brief examples of Numidian script found inscribed on rock cliffs by Dr. Rene` Verneau.

Keep in mind that we are comparing several "western" (i.e., Glozel, Azilian, Iberian) with the alphabet supposedly INVENTED by the Phoenicians. The similarities are simply too great. The Phoenicians obviously did not invent their character-set known today as the "alphabet". I believe they discovered it (at least the idea, and possibly some elements) in their travels to the west from sources dating back at least 12,000 years (i.e., the Glozel and Azilian).


Just as a footnote to all this riggamaroll about characters and alphabets (included because this also is a fact not widely known to the man in the street), the early Biblical Hebrews, from about the time of King Solomon until after the Babylonian captivity, used the Phoenician alphabet. In other words, whether they wrote on parchment or inscribed on stone, they wrote utilizing Phoenician characters. One of the earliest known Hebrew inscription is the famed Moabite Stone (dated 9th Cent. B.C.). It is written in the Hebrew language, but with Phoenician characters. The so-called "Hebrew" or block characters so familiar to us moderns belong to the Aramaic alphabet, not the Hebrew.


To those of you who hung in there through all this jargon, I congratulate you. I hope I have stimulated some thinking in regards to alphabets and origins. Whether you agree with me or not, I think the link between the Glosel Tablets and Atlantis is reasonably solid. It just may be that we owe our form of writing to the lost Atlanteans of antiquity.
 

 
Bibliography

Cohane, John Philip, "Paradox," Crown Publishers Inc., New York, 1977.
Friedrich, Johannes, "Extinct Languages," (translated from German by Frank Gaynor) published by The
Philosophical Library, New York, 1957.
Gelb, I. J., "A Study of Writing," The University of Chicago Press, Chicago & London, 1974.
Verneau, Rene R., "Sur les anciens habitants de la Isleta, Grande Canarie," Bulletin of Social Anthropology,
Paris, 1881.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 









Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 12, 2007, 01:33:14 am
Thanks Akelius
I was getting there!  ;D

What I like about this article also, is the straightforward way he just puts everything in it's place. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 16, 2007, 01:06:16 am
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AncientNesos.png)


Where to start?

Let's start with the time line - which I know nothing about! ;D  Diodorus Sicilus says he was copying older works when he wrote his books.  In his works, he talks about the Amazons and how they attacked their neighbors, the Atlantians.  I'm going to make the next line in caps because I think it's important.  WHEN THE AMAZONS ATTACKED THE ATLANTIANS, IT WAS WAAAY BACK WHEN THE ATLANTIANS WERE STILL A PEACEFUL SPIRITUAL PEOPLE.  So far back, that perhaps, whoever Diodorus is copying - in THEIR day, the edge of the Western world was today's Tunisia, and the western end of the Med. was considered part of the Oceanous.

Let's go to Plato - and HIS times.   In his times, the western world has now stretched to the ends of the continents and he knows Spain is Spain etc.  Plato says Atlantis is larger than Libya and Asia.  Well, if you consider that the whole Western side of Africa was Atlantis, then yeah - it would be bigger.  In my copy of Plato, it says that Eumelous' portion "faced" what was in Plato's time Gades.
That would be the "extremity" of Atlantis of course, since Atlantis was at the end of the Western world.  The western extremity of the western extremity, was Morocco.

I don't know where all these other people came from, like the Amazons and the Gorgons, etc. but Siculus says that the Amazons fought the Gorgons on one of the borders of Atlantis, on behalf of the Atlanteans.  IF and it's a big IF, the Amazons originated where we now call LAKE TRITONIS, then they fought their neighbors on the west (the Atlanteans), and then they continued on in their conquests, across Libya, made friends with the Egyptians, fought the Arabs, and swung around to Turkey and the Greek islands, building cities wherever they went.

Then along comes Hercules, and takes on their main base at Cherronesus, wipes it out, and puts up some pillars to comemmorate his exploits.  Cherronesus ends up sunken in the water, (as do the pillars).  Somewhere in here, the Atlanteans are turning to their dark side, and they take control of Libya to the borders of Egypt, and also Italy.  Not hard to do if they have THEIR main city on a then NESOS (nose) with their temple hill being in the vicinity of Malta.  Which was a man-made island- cut thru with canals, so they could egress out either side.   The western end of the Med would be considered part of the ocean, since it was open, but the eastern end was a harbour.  They COULD sail the ocean - if they could get to it, which it seems, they used to do, before Atlantis sunk causing a mud blockage.

After that part of Atlantis sunk, the Western end of the world became Gibralter.  I've always maintained that the time line is important, because to me, Plato goes back and forth in time - like a flash-back in a movie.  So - if Atlantis was this super large country with the best part being around Malta, then Nikas would be right in saying that the Temple city is in the water there.  It makes a lot of sense to me (other than that Siculus says the Amazons city was at the Atlas mountains) but I don't know exactly where the mountains end, and maybe there was a bit of confusion over that in ancient times as well.  The Lady of Elks (or however it's spelled) was found I believe in the South eastern part of Spain.  Makes sense if she was an Atlantean noble. 

The way I read Plato - was that Eumelous was given the extremity of Atlantis - that point furthest away from Egypt - as the story is being told - but that HIS portion faced a country which was eventually named after him - Gades.  Whether he took it over and annexed it, (must have, since the Atlanteans controlled all the way to Italy) and perhaps, he named it after himself or whether he was just a great guy and it was named after him, who knows?   Perhaps the Lady of Elks was of his family line, and they ruled from the southern shores.





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 16, 2007, 04:02:47 am
Just a bit of a repeat here, but maybe a bit more coherent:

Once upon a very loooong time ago, the "Gods" divided the earth amongst themselves. (According to Plato)
So - does that mean the whole planet? I would say yes, since these Gods seemed to need a lot of room, and also seemed to be constantly fighting each other and we see ruins in all parts of the world. From reading about these "gods" they were beyond "super" human, so what were they? What were the ancients calling "gods"? Some being(s) that had incredible knowledge and powers of some sort.

Ok - so Poseidon got his territory, and who knows how many gods there were in the very beginning? So let's say one god got South America, Poseidon got Atlantis, and whatever other Gods there were, divied up the rest of the world equally. Or picked choice locations for themselves at least. (Seems they all picked waterfront property anyway)!

Ok - so at the very beginning, we're concerned with Poseidon - and he marries Cleito, and has a bunch of kids. Time moves on, and these families go forth and multiply - but keep the spiritual and lawful ways their "god-father" taught them.

Now wherever this land was, it seems to have been front and centre in the "eventual" civilized world, since they received goodies from all the surrounding countries.

Time moves on, things develop. Boats are invented, horses are used, the wheel is discovered, etc. SOMEWHERE in time, other peoples develop. From where? Well, they must have developed from one of the other "gods" since apparently that was all there was in the beginning. Gods. Also somewhere in time, back when the Atlanteans were still in their peaceful mode, the Amazons were not - and they attacked the Atlanteans - their neighbors. Then, after the Atlanteans said "Hey, we concede - just don't wreck all our cities", the Amazons made friendly with the Atlanteans and fought the Gorgons, on one of Atlantis' borders. Now how many borders does an ISLAND have? Hee Hee - one! BUT - if we accept that the word used was Nesos - meaning - well, all those things that were mentioned before, then we'd have a peninsula, and a peninsula is joined to a mainland. Diodorus describes the land of the Amazons, and it compares very nicely to the land of the Atlanteans, will all the good food, and precious stones, etc.
So - there may be a little confusion as to exactly where the Amazons originated, but Diodorus says the island of Mene, which supposedly was in Lake Tritonis, in what is now Tunisia. Makes sense - especially if they attacked their neighbors to the west. The Atlanteans. Then the Amazons carry on, and make forays against the Libyans, they get to Egypt where they make friends with the ruler of the day, fight the Arabs, and continue on around the eastern end of the Med. till they get to Turkey and the Greek islands, putting up cities as they go.

Now while queen Myrina of the Amazons, is off doing these excursions into other lands, along comes Hercules to their home city of Cherronesus, and razes it to the ground. He puts up pillars to commemmorate his deed, but lo and behold, if Cherronesus doesn't end up in the brink, along with the Pillars of Hercules.

Stopping here for a moment - we have to picture Plato's story like a modern day movie that does flash-backs. Sometimes he is talking at his own time line, and sometimes he is talking about things in the ancient past.

Somewhere along the time line, the Atlanteans start turning to their dark side, and take control of Europe to Italy, and Libya to the borders of Egypt.

Trying to follow this bouncing time line then - at one time, the borders of the western world were Atlantis and Amazonland. Therefore the borders of the western world way back, was at modern Tunisia. Africa was joined to Sicily with a land bridge. When the city of the Amazons sunk, along with Hercules' pillars, this now left the Med open and the western extremity of the world became Gibralter. Since THAT time, whenever it was, the western extremity of the world was referred to as the Pillars of Hercules, that were recognizable to Plato as such.

Yes - in Plato's day, they called the Straits of Gibralter, the Pillars of Hercules - and even before his day. BUT - somewhere in time, the Pillars of Hercules - denoting the western extremity of the known world, were at Tunisia. Even the Egyptians didn't know their land was on a huge continent until they sent out an expedition to find out. As someone pointed out to me, lands were called "islands" or peninsulas, that hadn't been sailed all the way round, therefore, if one sees nothing but water for thousands of miles, they think they're on an island. So in VERY ancient times, perhaps even when the Egyptians FIRST got the story, they thought Atlantis was an island, when perhaps instead, it was a mainland with very large peninsulas sticking out from it.

I think - that being the story was old even to the Egyptians, that the western end of the Med., was considered at the time of the story - to be part of the ocean. It would seem so to anyone on the inside of the landbridge at Sicily. If nothing else, once you were in the western Med, you certainly could navigate the ocean. And it would seem that they DID navigate it before Atlantis sunk, causing that shoal of mud. Those on the eastern end of the Med, were cut off for a while.

So taking into consideration the bouncing time-line, the confusion about island and peninsula, the story of the Amazons vs. the Atlanteans, the goodies arriving in Atlantis from the surrounding countries and the grand finale being this supposed war started by the Atlanteans against the Athenians and Egyptians "at a blow", I contend that Atlantis WAS not an island, but a peninsula of the mainland of Africa, with it's temple city in the vicinity of Malta. In this theory, it was definitely bigger than Libya and Asia "together" not between the two. For the simple fact that Atlantis was probably the whole western "Nesos" of Africa.

PLEASE REMEMBER I AM NOT DOING THIS SCIENTIFICALLY AND HAVE NOT PROVEN ANYTHING WITH EVIDENCE OR OTHERWISE. I AM SIMPLY PUTTING TOGETHER ALL THE INFORMATION I'VE COME ACROSS.

In my version of Plato, it says that Eumelous was given the extremity of the territory "facing" what Plato in his day, knew as Gades. That Gades, was named after Eumelous. Or - as some would have it, "beside" Gades, or "across from". Means all the same thing to me. I would say that Eumelous annexed Gades as part of his territory when they started expanding their control. Therefore, yes, way back in the beginning, Eumelous being of the first genration and being an Atlantean, annexes Gades and makes it a part of Atlantis.
If - to the Eastern Med. peoples, anything west of the landbridge at Sicily was called "ocean", then the only place that could become a shoal of mud blocking them off, was at Malta. Where the City of Atlas (Atlantis) was buried in the water and mud.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on May 16, 2007, 02:32:08 pm
Qoais,

RE: "Once upon a very loooong time ago, the "Gods" divided the earth amongst themselves. (According to Plato)
So - does that mean the whole planet? I would say yes, since these Gods seemed to need a lot of room, and also seemed to be constantly fighting each other and we see ruins in all parts of the world. From reading about these "gods" they were beyond "super" human, so what were they? What were the ancients calling "gods"? Some being(s) that had incredible knowledge and powers of some sort.

Ok - so Poseidon got his territory, and who knows how many gods there were in the very beginning? So let's say one god got South America, Poseidon got Atlantis, and whatever other Gods there were, divied up the rest of the world equally. Or picked choice locations for themselves at least. (Seems they all picked waterfront property anyway)!"



The Bock saga tells that the earth was populated by kings and queens sent across the planet by the Aser in Hel (now Helsinki) in Oden-ma at the north pole, long before Ice-time (beginning about 55 million years ago-according to it's reckoning).  When the Ice-time began, those populations were cut off from the contact and information system which had been constantly in use for countless thousands of years, and which kept a world-wide system active.  The word "god" originally meant "good", as we know it.

By the time Plato heard and related the story (in relatively modern times) it had naturally changed almost totally. 

Studying the Bock material tends to deeply expand into the past the sense of what is "modern".

By the way, I think it was ten kings and queens which travelled out from Hel.   Maybe that number is residually remembered in relation to the 10 kings of Atlantis?

Also, at the end of Ice-time, about 10,000+ yrs ago, the Aser who had survived the duration, sent emissaries out to the 10 kingdoms to try to re-establish the old information system.  In the Med. region they were known as the Hyperboreans, across the world were reports from every culture of their arrival.   The name, a sort of "diplomat", they were called by the Aser was Han-u-man, a name which survives in India.

These "diplomats" discovered a vastly different world than their ancestors had left, kingdoms which condoned war, tyranny, slavery, and every sort of destructive activity.  They carried the message of the old way which survives to this day as the "Golden Rule".

Another thought, If it is the case that the story was related through Egyptian perception, how would they have described ice, the sliding ice-sheet which drove the surviving Aser into the water, or the grinding glacier which stripped the whole of Hel down to bed-rock and into the sea??


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 16, 2007, 03:26:31 pm
Hi Rock
I think 55 million years is pushing it a bit. 
NOT that I believe everything scientists tell us, but so far, these frozen bodies they've been finding in the ice, are a little more recent than that! :)

In the ancient beliefs, there were "gods" that stuck their noses in the affairs of men, fought in human wars, played favorites, etc.  What were these beings?  If the Aser were just "good", that does not give them the attributes of the "gods" described in the legends. I can see that being isolated, and with nothing to do but keep warm and put food on the table  ;D they had time to raise their levels of consciousness much like it is explained the Tibetan Lamas do.  When one has attained that higher level, apparently one can DO a lot more things than we normal mortals. Like using the mind to lift heavy items, communicate with mental telepathy, etc. Therefore, they would appear to be "gods" to the under-developed.  But where did it come from, that one could pray to a God for it's benevolence, or assistance in a war, or bless the crops or whatever?  How would these Gods "hear" these prayers?  There's a giant leap here, from being "good" and teaching ways of righteousness, to being prayed to for everything under the sun.  Ok, some of the original Aser people eventually split up, and we have Denmark and Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries.  Over time, they also became egotistical and greedy and selfish, but that didn't make them "super" beings that could hear prayers from miles away, or lift a hand to ensure success in any given battle thousands of miles away.  Something is missing here. 
What sticks out as obvious to me - that's missing - is technology.
How did the original Aser people contact say the colony in South America?  How did the messenger after say several thousand years go by, know how to even get to the colonies?  And  how did they physically  get to the colonies?  We would have to accept then, that the technology of the day - (maybe not 55 million years ago) but SOMEWHERE in the past, the technology was available for them to make contact, and for them to travel great distances.  Let's pretend for instance, that one of the colonies - like Atlantis - was totally destroyed by a cataclysm.  How would the Aser know that?  How would they know the way wasn't closed off by some other catastrophe?  And yet - apparently - according to legends all over the world - the messenger did come.  Perhaps they were so advanced to a higher consciousness - as Thoth in the emerald tablets says - that they could leave their bodies behind, and re-manifest somewhere else.  Like Melchizadek in the Bible "who was not born"?
 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on May 16, 2007, 09:26:48 pm
Qoais,

To address a few of your statements and questions...

As to 55 million years... The Aser saga describes a long "golden age" called PA RA DIS ET or "Paradise time" which was ended by the 1st Ragnarok (total destruction) 55 million years ago.  That is what the saga says.   I offer one strong confirmation of that date, that Baltic amber dates to the same time.   It is the oldest amber on the planet.  Amber comes from the resin of semi-tropical conifers that were crushed under immense weight for millions of years.

As to bodies in the ice, are you referring to humans or the famous mastodon?  Certainly there have been many many backs and forths of the ice, identified as different "ice ages"....  The area that trapped the Aser, (south Finland) was finally cleared 10,000 years ago.

You were right on about the ice-olation raising conciousness, surely.... but I am wondering if you are saying above that the "gods" could actually DO all the things that was said of them?  We may never know if they could dematerialize.... but we are learning that their prowess as sailors keeps going back further and further.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 16, 2007, 10:14:39 pm
Hi Rock
Quote
but we are learning that their prowess as sailors keeps going back further and further.
Yes - and then it seems like a lot of other died-in-the-wool theories are changed over and over as well, until one doesn't know what the heck was going on. 

When there was a first golden age, does the Saga say that there were humanoids on the earth at that time, or that the earth itself, was a paradise, waiting for habitation?  I realize there were several ice ages, and I knew about the amber, but how can one know if amber is 55 million, or 55 thousand years old?  I know they can test the trees and stuff I guess, so if the amber is in the tree, I suppose it's confirmation.

I was referring to the human bodies, since scientists keep changing the time line on when we developed. I think it's funny in a way.  In the other forum I was debating about the pyramids possibly being made of poured concrete (or something similar) and got accused of saying it was a fact, over and over.  Then I got called a cultist wierdo because I posted a few times on the subject.  But it's the scientists that always come out and say "we have discovered such and such and it's a fact, cut in stone", and next week another scientist will do the same thing.  Especially when it comes to dating things.  I had never said poured concrete was a fact myself.  Maybe some of the stuff I copied did, but that wasn't me, I was just putting the info out there.

The gods in the legends certainly were given a lot of credit for being able to do incredible feats, and I go back to (without sounding toooo repititious,) the Bible and the Ark of the Covenant.  Moses kept going in to it and communicating with it.  Saying God was telling him what to do.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on May 17, 2007, 12:31:49 am
Qoais,

Here are a couple of sites:

www.bocksaga.de    www.bocksaga.com

Yes, the saga says the Aser populated the earth starting at the north pole when the planet was perpendicular to the sun.   It was MUCH later that the 1st Ragnarok ocurred, probably resulting from a meteor strike, ending the Paradise time and beginning "Alt-land-is" (all the land is ice).


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 17, 2007, 02:14:09 am
Thanks Rockessence, I've been to those sites, and I think there's another one as well, I'd have to go back in the posts to look it up.  I don't think I've read the whole Saga tho.  Was going to order the sound tapes, but didn't get around to it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 12:04:09 am
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AtlasRange.jpg)

I've been trying to check up a bit on the Amazons, because I've still got that bouncing time-line in my head, and it may just be that if I go with the assumption that the peoples in the Eastern Med., considered the Amazons and Atlanteans as being at the western edge of the world at some point in time, it will help place things in their proper location.  When you think about it, the Atlas mountains kind of kept people hemmed in on the eastern land side, and the desert kept them hemmed in to the south.  People on the Morocco side either had to trek the mountains or go by boat.

Ok - so folks say that it is mentioned in history that the Amazons had something to do with Lake Tritonis (Tritonis marsh according to Diodorus)

Here's an article I found regarding this:

Chott Djerid - the legendary Lake Tritonis
Ancient geography:

The ancient knowledge of geography has been handed down to us by Claudios Ptolemaios (2nd century AD).  According to him the lake Tritonis name Palus Tritonis is the third of a row of lakes (Palus Pallas, Palus Libya), which are connected with a river Triton.  This river empties into the Mediterranean Sea some miles north of Tacapae.  Tacapae is indentical with the today's city Gabes.  Consequently, the lake Tritonis must be in this salt lake basin which stretches from the Mediterranean Sea at Gabes to the west.  We know that still in antiquity the climate in this region was much moister, thus there was much more water, so we have to assume that they were real lakes.  Today the salt lakes only fill with water after much rain mostly in winter.  According to Ptolemaios the Tritonis was the third lake.  Today we distinguish the salt lakes Chott Fedjadj, the large Chott Djerid and then the Chott el Rharsa (also: el Gharsa).  Due to this the hott el Rharsa must be the lake Tritonis.  Actually, there is an unambiguous hint.  According to Ptolemaios next to the lake Tritonis there is a place named Thusuros, which is undoubtedly identical the the today's city Tozeru.  This town is situated at the Chott Djerid.  Thus it is clear, which was always certain in antiquity - that the Chott Djerid is identical with the legendary lake Tritonis.  The detail that the Tritonis was the third lake can easily be explained that in the moister period the extended Chott Fedjadj was divided into two basins.  Even today there is a special name for the western part of the Chott Fedjadj - Chott Faraoun.

Presumable position of the island Hespera respectively Phla:
Between the salt lake basins of Chott Djerid and Chott el Rharsa there protrudes an extensive elevation from the surrounding landscape.  It stretches from Nefta in the west across Tozeur, the main place, to El Hamma du Djerid in the northeast and Degache in the southeast.  At Degache there starts the wide basin of the Chott Djerid, at El Hamma the landscape drops into the hott el Rharsa basin.  In fact, this special region is enclosed to the east by a mountain chain named Cherb, to the south and north by the salt lake basins, and in the west at Nefta it ends in the desert.  The unity of the region gives the impression of an island.  Actually, this landscape is the only inhabited area for many miles around.  Therefore the identification of this secluded region with the island Herspera or Phla seems plausible.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Amazonland.gif)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/tunisia.gif)



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 12:45:54 am
Actually, I didn't realize the Atlas Mountains came so far East.  In the ancient times, I can now see where they would think that the land bridge at Sicily was a demarcation line, for their world.  Who would want to try to get farther west by hiking thousands of miles thru the mountains, or a blistering hot desert?  Only the nomads I guess.  So - if we place the Amazons at or near Gabes and they attacked their neighbors the Atlanteans, who were even more "western" than they were, the Atlaneans had to have been all along the north and west coasts of Africa and possibly in Spain as well.  However, it is possible that the lay of the land was a bit different back then than now, tho I wouldn't have a clue as to HOW different.  Diodours does say tho, that an earthquake caused the marsh Tritonis to disappear when those parts of it that toward the ocean were torn asunder.

Quote
55. Now as the Amazons, they go on to say, relaxed their watch during the night because of their success, the captive women, falling upon them and drawing the swords of those who thought they were conquerors, slew many of them; in the end, however, the multitude poured in about them from every side and the prisoners fighting bravely were butchered one and all. Myrina accorded a funeral to her fallen comrades on three pyres and raised up three great heaps of earth as toms, which are called to this day "Amazon Mounds". But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya, since he felt that it would ill accord with his resolve to be the benefactor of the whole race of mankind if he should suffer any nations to be under the rule of women. The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder.

As for Myrina, the account continues, she visited the larger part of Libya, and passing over into Egypt she struck a treaty of friendship with Horus, the son of Isis, who was king of Egypt at that time, and then, after making war to the end upon the Arabians and slaying many of the, she subdued Syria; but when the Cilicians came out with presents to meet her and agreed to obey her commands, she left those free who yielded to her of their free will and for this reason there are called to this day the "Free Cilicians". She also conquered in war the races in the region of the Taurus, peoples of outstanding courage, and descended through Greater Phrygia to the sea; then she won over the land lying along the coast and fixed the bounds of her campaign at the Caicus River. And selecting in the territory which she had won by arms sites well suited for the founding of cities, she built a considerable number of them and founded one which bore her own name, but the others she named after the women who held the most important commands, such as Cyme, Pitana, and Priene.


Depending on the time line, or the different time lines we should look at - one being the time-line of Atlantis itself, as apparently it was an "original" area, as in being there when the Gods divided up the land.  So - if we are going THAT far back, then the Med, wasn't the way it is now.  Apparently at one time, the western end of the Med. was actually a lush plain.  Also at one time, the Sahara desert was a lake.  When the Straits of Gibralter opened, the same seismic activity caused a split in the floor of the lake, and the water drained away.  So if you can imagine that the western end of the Med was like a plain - in other words dry land, bordered on the South by the Atlas mountains, but that there was water where the Sahara now is, then in very ancient times The area from Morocco east to Tunisia, then NE to Tyrrenia, then North to France and Germany, and then west again to Spain, would have been the "island" of Atlantis. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 01:23:38 am
According to the Urantia Book the Straits of Gibralter opened 34,000 years ago.  Since Atlantis was a God's kingdom, from day one, I have to assume the Atlaneans were established at that time.  So I played with a map, and changed the look of the area so the western Med is dry, and the Sahara is a lake.  (I don't know how big that "lake" would have been)  So maybe, the first break-up of Alantis was when the Straits opened:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/VeryancientAtlantis.jpg)

IF the land was something like that, then we can see that Georgeos would be correct regarding the "exremity" (the northwestern most corner) belonging to Eumelous, would be what is now the Iberian Peninsula.  We could also see, that it would be possible for Nikas to be correct in his location of the "Royal" city at Malta.  When the straits opened, according to the Urantia Book, the was THE most severe catastrophe the earth had experienced and the loss of life was immense.  The whole landscape was altered.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 01:49:16 am
I can't remember where I got this from, but was just cleaning out "my pictures" and came across it:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/EarlyEarth-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Elric on May 18, 2007, 02:02:20 am
Nice work, Qoais, I especially like the graphics.

Quote
Diodours does say tho, that an earthquake caused the marsh Tritonis to disappear when those parts of it that toward the ocean were torn asunder.

I remember Riven once had a secondary theory once that the demise of Lake Tritonis was the source of the Atlantis myth.  It almost fits, provided that you believe that both Plato and Diodorus were writing about the same people.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 02:47:03 am
Thanks Elric
Quote
I remember Riven once had a secondary theory once that the demise of Lake Tritonis was the source of the Atlantis myth

Welllll, I can see that if the Atlanteans were neighbors of the Amazons, and they both lived along this lake, which would likely have been rather large, it would certainly have wiped out a lot of the Atlanteans when it disappeared.  What with all the earth changes that took place at that time, the Atlanteans would have been hard pressed to even survive.  Then there was intermittant seismic activity for years and years, so I can just imagine the changes that took place.  The Atlas mountains themselves, were apparently thrown up not all at once, but with three different incidents.  A lot of Atlantis would have been cut off from the rest of the world when Gibralter opened, and it's not hard to imagine that they resented the loss of their land, especially the great plain that is now the Med.! and gradually, after getting their wits about them again, they started expanding, trying to reclaim some territory.  Since there isn't all that much written about Atlantis in the first place, I would think Plato and Siculus were referring to the same people.  It's just that the time line is not consecutive in the stories.  It bounces all over. 
I've been thinking about the odds and ends that stick in my head from things I've read, and quite a while ago, I was wondering why the Urantia Book didn't mention Atlantis.  Then  I was thinking about how the Med used to be a lush plain. Then I realized that the Atlas Mountains stretched farther East than I thought.  Then I realized that most of the Med has mountains around it.  Then I wondered, how it could be that having the Med. raise up one mile, would have been so devastating, if all the surrounding lands were high-cliffed.  I know of course, that there are lowlands near the coasts and all, but the UB (so far) has not been debunked, and what it says, it what it means.  So, I put two and two together, and realized it must have been so devastating because most of the civilization that got wiped out, would have been living in that great plain.  Sure, the tsunami's would have caused a lot of havoc, washing over the land, destroying buildings, and washing the top soil away.  But even Athens didn't disappear with it.  In the low lying eastern end of the Med it seems that only Cypress lost some land mass.  There's some loss also in a couple of the seas within the Med., but it is my opinion, that the western Med WAS Atlantis.  Or a major portion thereof.  If you look at the Med on Nasa Worldwind, you can see where the areas are that would have been inundated when the straits opened.  According to the Urantia Book, when the Straits opened, that is also when the land bridge to Sicily was wiped out.  S0 - if the Atlanteans had their city on or near that landmass, it is most definitely under the mud!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on May 18, 2007, 03:11:49 am
Looking at the map "Middle Miocene", it shows that the Med. was joined to the Indian Ocean.  The Urantia Book states that this was so, and that the last land mass to be thrown up was Arabia and the Sinai Peninsula.  That the Med. retreated to where it is today, but was much lower.  I can't remember the details off the top of my head.  I really do think, that if Atlantis did exist, it was a "Nesos", but quite a bit different than what we see today from a bird's eye view. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 12, 2007, 02:12:15 am
A long time ago when the earth was born - the land mass was supposedly all of a piece.  Then things started rockin and rollin and splitting and drifting with the tide.  I know when I was a kid, it was suggested that Africa and the Americas were joined somewhere back when.  So at first, we only had one ocean - the world ocean. (Basically, we still do)

Now my question would be - since we have all different cultures talking about ancient history, and we have an ancient Egyptian Priest telling about even more ancient times - when the gods were on earth - I'm wondering just how far back this story goes.  Like the Bok Saga, it could actually go back farther than we think.  Just WHEN did these Gods inhabit the earth?  Well, according to the Urantia Book that a lot of people don't have any faith in, 500,000 years ago.  Next question then, who were the gods that the Egyptians and Greeks talk about, and then who were the Atlanteans in whose land the Gods were born?  Gibralter supposedly opened 34,000 years ago.  So - the story of Hercules is REALLY old!  But the gods were in existance from the time the earth had developed a land mass because they divided it up amongst themselves.  Don't know how many there were originally, but I don't think very many. 

Anyway, I decided to cut up a picture of the earth and stick it back together again to get an idea what it might have looked like when the Gods divided it up amongst themselves, and before it totally broke apart.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/EarlyWorld001.jpg)

Well, I didn't say I did a good job of it!!

The Urantia Book also says that the Med joined the Indian Ocean way back when and that the Garden of Eden was built on a peninsula sticking out westward on the eastern end of the Med.  Well, I see a long narrow peninsula sticking out from below our current Caspian Sea.  Eventually, the land closed between Arabia and Asia, and the Med dried up to become a vast plain.  A mere 34,000 years ago, Gibralter opened, and the Med. became a sea again and inundated the Garden of Eden.  But obviously, the land masses had separated long before that. 

So we get to Plato's times, and he says "the power" came from the Atlantic Ocean and the enemy were called Atlanteans.  So can we assume then, that the "gods" didn't show up here until the land masses had separated for there to BE an Atlantic ocean, or was the whole "world ocean" at that time called Atlantic?

So if the "gods" were so advanced as to build pyramids and the aqueduct in S. America and had writing, there just may have been a record saved somewhere telling about the "other" continent that's now across the ocean.  After the great flood, the few survivors may have remembered there was another land out there, but they'd be too busy trying to stay alive to maintain written records, and all was forgotten.  Except for a few who were keepers of the records maybe and they handed down their knowledge to specially trained persons, also like in the Bok Saga, and therefore Egypt was the repository of those records. 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 12, 2007, 10:13:29 am
Ok - the above is a little out of whack, but lets use the 500,000 years of the UB as a guide post.  Supposedly, that's when a Planetary Prince was sent to this world to educate the indiginous humans.  He and his staff were supposed to teach us everything we had to know about everything that existed, but he was supposed to do it slowly, over a period of 500,00 years, which would bring us to our present day.  However, he rebelled, after about 300,000 years and decided he wanted to do things his way.  However, when he rebelled, the universal powers quarantined our planet and cut off all universal contact.  BUT, the UB doesn't say just how advanced we'd become before this quarantine, and it does say that this rebellion set us back almost as much as we'd been brought forward.

Some of the staff rebelled with him, and some did not.  The staff split up, along with their followers, some maintaining the light and life theory, (possibly their decendants were of the Bok Family) while the rebellious ones - I believe - developed into the Atlanteans and continued to develop their technology.  Hence we have the stories in the Vedas of flying machines and "unknown" weapons.  The account of complete cities being wiped out  by the "iron thunderbolt" contaminating everything, sounds to me like a weapon that had been on the shelf for a long time, and no one even knew what the results would be when it was used.  Which means that the technology to make it was lost.  A team of scientists located that area, and even now it emits a high radiaton count.

It's too bad Robert Sarmast has closed the forum on his web site, as I had posted quite a bit about this "nuclear" war talked about in the Vedas. 

At this point, we get the universal powers that be, stepping in to clean things up, and we have stories of a great flood or in some cases, how cities were destroyed with fire from the heavens.  Then we start with a clean slate again. and now we're back to where we have nuclear power and bombs that can be used just by pressing a button, etc. etc.  Maybe those universal powers are going to step in again, or maybe they're going to let us almost wipe each other out, and the world will start all over again.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 13, 2007, 12:04:28 am
DearQoais:
your theory of Atlantis was an Island near Africa(between Spain and Africa) Could be true..Look at the Atlantis city in Mauritania: http://geology.com/africa-satellite-images.shtml
It is "Guebel er Rachit" !! You have to look at to west mauritania at  10mi/10km
I think it is true, it was an island near mauritania and it suddenly connected to Africa with an earth quake and the city stayed In the desrt(It didnt sunk..but it must be a terrible event because the whole area is changed,.You have to enlarge the satellite image..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 13, 2007, 12:17:31 am
IT IS IN MAURITANIA>>THE CITY OF ATLANTIS IT LOOKS LIKE ACRATER BUT IT IS NOT!! JUST THE ISLAND SQUIZZED THERE AND THE CITY OF ATLANTIS CAME IN THE MIDDLE OF DESRT!!GUEBEL ER RACHIT!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 12:39:30 am
Hi Julia
I wish it were true, but that circle is a geologic formation, I've been looking for the pictures of it that were posted in this forum somewhere, but can't remember which thread it was in.
I WAS going to say, that if the Amazons were neighbors of the Atlanteans, and the earth was different then, which it must have been, since the desert was once a lake, and apparently this lake once stretched out to the ocean to the west, then Atlantis is now on the land somewhere.  Maybe at one time the ocean COULD be access thru this lake, and Atlantis was on the shore.  When the land heaved, I don't suppose the lake dried up all at once, but it would certainly be muddy, and ships wouldn't be able to pass.  Then the lake - and I think it was a big one - totally dried up.  Supposedly, the same cataclycism that opened Gibralter, also caused the lake to drain out thru it's bottom and become dry land.  So the passage to the ocean changed, with the opening of Gibralter and the closing of that lake.
Maybe.  But it had to be something like that for the Amazons to be neighbors to the Atlanteans.
Also, the whole Western Med. was a vast plain.  So who's to say that Atlantis ISN'T at the bottom of the Med?  Especially if the lay of the land was totally different. 
It's like that picture I posted earlier, where I filled in the Med with green, and made a lake in the desert.  Perhaps they called that lake "ocean" being it was so large, as Plato does say "the ocean was navigable then", so maybe it DOES mean that they could no longer navigate THAT ocean.  He says "this sea is but a harbor" possibly meaning that at one time it was part of the ocean, or on the shores of the ocean, before it drained away.  When the land changed, and Gibralter opened and the "lake" dried up, it would certainly change the geography wouldn't it?  So Atlantis could have been an "island" AND a "peninsula" with other islands also.  And if the "Royal City" was in a great plain, what greater plain that the Med. itself when it didn't have water in it?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 03:18:13 am
Julia
It's called the Richat Structure and was posted by Brooke at the link below.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Atlantisinthedesert3.jpg)

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,40.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on June 13, 2007, 06:03:56 am
 *** Hi Qoais *** YOUR MAP IS CRUDE BUT SHREWD ! IT'S OBVIOUS YOU'VE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK . PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING BEHIND DISSECTING NORTH AMERICA & AFRICA THE WAY YOU DID ? I LIKE THAT IDEA OF A MUCH ENLARGED MEDITERRANEAN SEA THAT ENCOMPASSES HALF OF EUROPE . . . THE BLACK . . . CASPIAN & ARAL SEAS . . . Irak and Iran and the rest of the Middleast . . . & the NORTH COAST OF AFRICA . THIS IS A UNIQUE CONCEPT THAT EXPLAINS ALOT. THE LONG PENINSULA PROJECTING FROM THE EASTERN END OF THE ENLARGED MED FROM PAKISTAN MAKES MORE SENSE THAN Anything else ive heard ! The Elongated Island in the Middle of this Sea with GREECE [& PAROS the Marble Island CRYSTAL] at the CENTRE is very close to an Accurate Representation of the Ley of the Lines FROM THE TIME OF THE GODS ! ! !   DDD****


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 13, 2007, 09:29:51 am
Dear Qoais:
Did anyone dig around of this structure??It really looks like Atlantis.This is not a natural formation.I am soryy I dont think so..It looks like exactly like Atlantis.may be at that time that wasthe shore and Like you said it was connected with an island.But after the earth quake(or earth quakes) the land changed.but this formation stayed In the land..I think seriously some has to dig around there.Of course whatever it was should be gone by now..Butif we dig underneath may be we could find things..I doesnt look natural


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 13, 2007, 09:36:01 am
Dear Qoais:
And this is in front of a Mouth of acontinent.Look at the structure there.It looks like seep sea.And that thing was obvvviously connected to an island like you described it..I think so..We have to find out if someone dig around it??


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 11:23:38 am
Hi Julia

Here's an article about it:

http://hometown.aol.de/SLVehicles6/Doming-Craters/Dome.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 08:16:57 pm
Hi 3D
I don't know if I can explain what's in my head, but if anyone could understand, I'm sure it's you.  My head is going round and round in circles right now, as I've just remembered a bunch of other stuff too that I want to mull over.  I'll try to form it into something coherent and see what I come up with.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 10:08:36 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/EarlyTriassic.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/EarlyJurassic.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/LateJurassic.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/LateCretaceous.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 13, 2007, 11:03:34 pm
I don't know how accurate the preceding pictures are, but even if they're close it gives us an idea of how the land mass split and divided. 

The Urantia Book says "35,000 years ago marks the termination of the great ice age excepting in the polar regions of the planet.  This date is also significant in that it approximates the arrival of a Material Son and Daughter (Adam and Eve) and the beginning of the Adamic dispensation, roughly corresponding to the beginning of the Holocene or postglacial period."

About 500,000 years ago, the colored races were developed in the highlands of India.  The decendants of these colored people, after great expansion in numbers over 100,000 years, spread out.  "These early colored races were extraordinarily tested by the rigors and hardships of the glacial age of their origin.  This glacier was so extensive in Asia that for thousands of years migration to eastern Asia was cut off.  And not until the later retreat of the Mediterranean Sea, consequent upon the elevation of Arabia, was it possible for them to reach Africa".

As far as I can recall, Arabia was the last piece of land to emerge.  Also, originally, the Med covered a large portion of Northern Africa.

Urantia Book - Paper 80.2.4
About the time of these climatic changes in Africa, England separated from the continent, and Denmark arose from the sea, while the isthmus of Gibraltar, protecting the western basin of the Mediterranean, gave way as the reslut of an earthquake, quickly raising this inland lake to the level of the Atlantic Ocean.  Presently the Sicilian land bridge submerged, creating one sea of the Mediterranean and connecting it with the Atlantic Ocean.  This cataclysm of nature flooded scores of human settlements and occasioned the greatest loss of life by flood in all the world's history".

Paper 73.7.1

After the first garden was vacated by Adam, it was occupied variously by the Nodites, Cutites, and the Suntites.  It later became the dwelling place of the northern Nodites who opposed co-operation with the Adamites.  The peninsula had been overrun by these lower-grade Nodites for almost four thousand years after Adam left the Garden when, in connection with the violent activity of the surrounding volcanoes and the submergence of the Sicilian land bridge to Africa, the eastern floor of the Mediterranean Sea sank, carrying down beneath the waters the whole of the Edenic peninsula.  Concomitant with this vast submergence the coast line of the eastern Mediterranean was greatly elevated.  And this was the end of the most beautiful natural creation that Urantia has ever harbored.  The sinking was not sudden, several hundred years being required completely to submerge the entire peninsula".

Adam and Eve arrived about 37,800 years ago - take away the 4000 years of Nodites populating the Garden before Gibralter opened and we have approximately 33,700 years ago that Gibralter opened.




 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 14, 2007, 07:16:15 pm
Dear Qoais:
Whowere nodites? And The others??Anyway, I dont belive much to Urantia book (it could be true tho).But, TheNoah and his sons(if they came from Atlantis) It is possible They lived in mauritania..or in that island that you proposed..This structure of Richat .It is not clear if it is natural or not.they didnt
find out.This thing was obviously connected with the sea.because its surrounding is so unnatural So look Blue.Obviously It was sea there.And The Island that you said was connected to this richat structure(I never saw this thing before.It is in front of Our eyes and nobosy else but Ulf Richter says it is ATlantis.IT IS ATLANTIS>It is the same thingthat Plato described..Only the top is eroded may be the peoplelived there.but nobody dag around there..
I fi had alot of money, I would go and dig This  gobel errichats .area..What is underneath..I like to know..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 14, 2007, 07:27:51 pm
This map I mean: It was an island until mauritania.And Atlantis was In mauritania..The geology is changed..
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/VeryancientAtlantis.jpg


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 14, 2007, 07:35:08 pm
Look at the geology report:


 
 Christian Laroubine, Societe Astronomique de France, has described me: "I sampled breccias on the central zone of Richat. I do not think that we can say that this zone is the central peak of an impact crater, but there is a doubt about a tectonic origin. The components of my samples do not find their origin with a very great depth as could be to it a magma or nearby products. This breccia (left) is astonishing by its structure and its composition. Today, nobody can affirm without controversy if it is of tectonic or impact origin."
 
 
The Atlantis was a volcanic land....I really think now this is Atlantis..And Montexano made afight with me about it.He said It is a geographic structure..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 14, 2007, 08:21:26 pm
Hi Julia
Once a person reads the whole Urantia Book, it kind of stays in your head.  I've not seen anyone refute it yet for it's facts.  One can believe what one wishes of course; I just find a lot of it totally logical altho sometimes I find it frustrating too because it leaves details out that would be nice to know! 
Just read Paper 66 and you'll understand about the Nodites etc.
Regarding my map, I was reading some geological papers to see if I could figure out the shape of the land in the past.  The Urantia Book indicates that early on, the Med was way larger than now, and was open to the Indian Ocean, but closed at Gibralter.  It also covered a lot of Northern Africa.  When the land mass of Arabia was thrown up, it closed the Med., and gradually the Med. started drying up.  I suspected that Lake Tritonis was a remnant of the original Mediterranean Sea, which, way back in time, was part of the ocean thru being open at the eastern end.  I was trying to find out how long ago it had dried up and parts of it became a great plain.  I know there was a lot of seismic activity in the area over thousands of years, and finally a volcano and earthquake opened Gibralter and the Med. filled back up again.  However, the land bridge at Sicily took the brunt of the flood and tidal waves, while the eastern end didn't rise so quickly.  According to the Urantia Book, it was when the land bridge at Sicily finally gave way, that the eastern end of the Med had it's bottom sink, and wiped out the Edenic Peninsula (the garden of Eden was on a peninsula in the eastern end of the Med. sticking out westward.)  That's why Sarmast thinks it's Cyprus.  But if the Med was bigger at the time, and this peninsula is now under water, then Cyprus ain't it!!!!

Diodorus Siculus - in talking about the Amazons describes them living on a great island, at the western extremity of the known world, this island being rich in all things necessary for life and some gems as well.  Sounded just like Plato's Atlantis.  The Amazons attacked some Libyan Nomads, then built a city, then attacked their neighbors, the Atlantians.   Then they carried on across the rest of Libya attacking as they went, but made friends with the ruling Pharoah who I think was Horus, and then carried on their campaign around the eastern end of the Med. and ended up in the islands of Greece.  I believe it was the island of Lesbos where the Amazon Queen put up an alter to some goddess.  The point being, that somewhere in there, the land had to have been different than we think.  The Amazons had attacked the Atlanteans when they were still peaceful, so that had to be a looooong way back.  Then Heracles comes along, and he destroys the Amazonian city that they'd built in the Tritonis Marsh and then some time after that yet, he opens the Pillars at Gibralter.  The land changes again.

We don't really know the time line of the original story told by the priest.  Plato says "9000 is the number of years since the war".  But how long before the war was the Atlantean culture developing?  For quite some time since "boats were not as yet" when Posideon married Clieto. Some say it wasn't 9000. Some say it was 9000 months, or 9000 seasons or that a zero was misplaced, whatever.  BUT according to the Urantia Book, which leaves out a lot detail, humans HAD developed quite a bit and I see no reason why there couldn't have been a civilization that had grown in power.  Not necessarily in technology although that is debatable as well, since we have the Indian Vedas talking about Vimanas (flying machines).  We have carvings or paintings or whatever, found in a pyramid of 4 different flying machines.  So if the Egyptians or Atlantians didn't have these flying machines themselves, they had certainly seen them to be able to depict them on the walls.  Someone tried to tell me that those depictions are just a co-incidence.  That the "pictures" had been "erased" and new pictures put over top and since the original picture wasn't completely erased, the new picture looked like space craft.  Crap!  A co-incidence I could accept if it was kind of iffy or if there was only one.  But there's four - and to me that is intentional not co-incidence.  That's why I'm still hanging in there, thinking Atlantis just MAY have existed (maybe by another name).  If the priest had told Solon about the Atlanteans and if the Atlanteans had flying machines, can you imagine what they would have done to Solon if he tried to tell about that?  Or Plato?  He would then have had to say the Atlanteans were GODS and he couldn't do that because the war he talked about, wouldn't have been a fair fight at all, and the Greeks wouldn't want to hear about their ancestors fighting the gods for heavens sake.  You don't fight gods, you worship them. 
So - maybe Solon was carrying around a big secret, and maybe Plato stumbled upon it. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 14, 2007, 08:23:13 pm
Julia - George is going to fight anyone who believes Atlantis was anywhere other than Spain. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 14, 2007, 08:32:44 pm
What I'd like to know, is where these "gods" came from, that they just show up on earth and divide it amongst themselves.  They weren't here first, obviously, since Cleito had to have a family history somewhere.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 14, 2007, 08:48:06 pm
Dear Qoais :
my post didnt arrive I think ..This structure is gelogic or not is not clear..Ok/there is no clear geology report.Ulf Richter was right and You are right about that Island..It extends from Spain to mauritania and Algeria..SOo Big.the borders are still bluegreen lookat Google earth and everywhere it conncted to africa is Bluegreen like algea??Why is it bluegreen.because it was SEA.remember in Sahara in the caves thay found some pictures about the drowning people from where the saharan know about an ATlantis in spain?? It was In  mauritania.Before our eyes.And everybody misses.My god..Lets write in the Atlantis Rising forum heh heh..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 14, 2007, 10:39:00 pm
Look: http://www.superstock.co.uk/search/Marmar%20Tassili

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1443109279077741972vMwztp

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1446360459077741972hkSPWJ                                                                                                                                Water damage in the rocks..this is a relatively rescentdried up And Some hotels became wet in Libya abd algeriasuddenly.WHat does it mean.It was Sea there..
look:

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/WS/sahara14/sahara14.pdf
http://www.superstock.com/search/Caves/nature
http://www.h4ppy.com/blog/archives/2006_04_01_h4ppy.html


http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/floods/mfloods.html

Egypt and North Africa
The evidence for such a flood is clear. If such an oceanic flood poured onto the African continent, it would have left clear traces and would have raised the ground water level immediately. Over hundreds of years, the ground water level would fall. This has been documented. In 1988, Joseph Davidovits and Margie Morris reported the following:
Geological studies of the Sphinx have kindled more than debate over [its] attribution and age. The established history of the evolution of civilization has been challenged.
A study of the severe body erosion of the Sphinx and the hollow in which it is situated indicates that the damaging agent was water. A slow erosion occurs in limestone when water is absorbed and reacts with salts in the stone. The controversy arises over the source of the vast amount of water responsible.
Two theories are popular. One is that ground water slowly rose into the body of the Sphinx. This theory produces irreconcilable problems: A recent survey carried out by the American Research Center in Egypt (ARCE) determined that three distinctly separate repair operations were completed on the Sphinx between the New Kingdom and Ptolemaic rule, that is, during a period of roughly 700 to 1,000 years. The study also indicates that the Sphinx was already in its current state of erosion when these early repairs where made. No appreciable erosion has occurred since the original damage, nor is there further damage on the bedrock of the surrounding hollow, an area that never underwent repair.

Knowing this, one must consider that the inundating Nile slowly built up levels of silt over the millennia, and this was accompanied by a gradual rise in the water table. During Khafra's time, the water table was about [30] feet lower than it is today. For the rising ground water theory to hold, an unbelievable geological scenario would have to have taken place. It would mean that from [30] feet lower than today's water table, water rose to about two feet into the body of the Sphinx and the surrounding hollow, where it caused erosion for roughly 600 years, and then stopped its damaging effects.

Historians find the second theory...offered more unthinkable. It suggests that the source of water stemmed from the wet phases of the last Ice Age--c. 15,000 to 10,000 BC--when Egypt underwent periods of severe flooding. This hypothesis advocates that the Sphinx necessarily existed before the floods. If it could be proven, well-established theories about prehistory would be radically shaken. The world's most mysterious sculpture would date to a time when historians place humanity in a Neolithic setting, living in open camps and depending largely on hunting and foraging.3 (Emphasis added.)

Richard C. Hoagland discussed the Sphinx and John A. West's analysis of the evidence for its geological age:

On researching a book in the mid-seventies about the philosophies and cosmologies of Ancient Egypt, West came upon a comment from another scholar, R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz: "The Great Sphinx shows evidence of severe water erosion...." To which West internally responded with the obvious question:
"In a desert?!"

West's curiosity, prompted by de Lubicz' casual reference to the "anomalous erosion" of the Sphinx, was based on the following hard facts:

To create "severe water erosion" on the Sphinx, the Sahara Desert must at one time NOT have been a desert. Readily available climatological data for Ancient Egypt make it abundantly clear that the Sahara has been in place from [7 to 10,000 years]...since the end of the last Ice Age. Meaning that both the carving of the Sphinx and its "severe water erosion" had to have taken place sometime before...!

Such an age, if established, would, of course, automatically preclude an Egyptian Pharaoh by the name of Chephren from ordering the carving of the Sphinx only 4,500 years ago--if the Sphinx's current state of weathering could a) be traced unambiguously, geologically to a period of massive rainfall on the Gizeh Plateau (as opposed to wind or sand erosion), and b) that period could be independently dated by geological (as opposed to "Egyptological") techniques, to before Chephren's reign during Egypt's so-called "Old Kingdom."

In 1991, both of these results came together for West's privately-funded Sphinx Project Team--resulting in the Team's highly significant, radical conclusions:

Based on this chain of reasoning...we can estimate that the initial carving of the Great Sphinx (i.e., the carving of the main portion of the body and the front) may have been carried out c. 7,000 to 5,000 BC. This tentative estimate is probably a minimum date; given that weathering rates may proceed non-linearly...the possibility remains open that the initial carving of the Great Sphinx may be even older than 9,000 years ago....

Privately, West's geologists suspect an even greater age for this remarkable Egyptian effigy....

This is required to produce the "advanced state of water weathering" they detect (in part, via seismological techniques)--not merely on the Sphinx--but in the walls, and under the "floor," of the carved "ditch" which separates the Sphinx from the limestone of the Gizeh Plateau proper. This pronounced state of deep erosion is also readily visible in the "Sphinx Temple"--the massive construction...a few hundred yards from the Sphinx, composed of 100-ton limestone blocks. It has long been presumed that these were excavated from the "ditch" at the time of the carving of the Sphinx itself.

All these features...show evidence of such severe water weathering that eroded fissures 12 feet in depth are visible inside the ditch; similar manmade excavations (to the ditch), in similarly hard limestone on other parts of the Plateau (for Old Kingdom tombs, dated by other methods to 5,000 years), show literally no erosion....

The remarkable conclusion?

According to John [A.] West: If the Sphinx predates dynastic Egypt,...we would have to rewrite the history of when advanced civilization began....4 (Author's emphasis.)

It is a well-established fact that, during the Ice Age, the amount of rainfall was much greater than at present. Historians believed and accepted that the Egyptian civilization emerged long after the Ice Age ended. Under these circumstances, it is clear that, after the Ice Age ended (supposedly 10,000 years ago), the amount of rainfall over Africa decreased and, therefore, the ground water level would have also decreased. However, the damage to the Sphinx indicates that the water table rose more than 30 feet and remained high for about 600 years. Geologically, an immense amount of water would have had to flood Africa after the Sphinx was constructed. Water tables simply do not rise over 30 feet and remain at a high level under the present gradualistic or uniformitarian conditions. This clearly indicates that a flood of extraordinary magnitude inundated Africa during the time of Egyptian civilization.
A temple was uncovered at Abydos, over 250 miles south of Gizeh, in the 19th century. The main temple complex, built of red granite, is located in a swamp 30 feet beneath the surface. According to David H. Childress, "[its] foundations are cut many feet below the current level of the water table, which has risen some [20] feet since the temple was built."5

When the Egyptians built this temple in the desert and laid its foundation, it seems obvious that the water table was at least 20 feet lower. The water table would not have risen 20 feet since then unless an enormous amount of water had, somehow, been added to the desert region and had, thus far, not subsided fully. Whale bones discovered in the Sahara Desert offer even more evidence of a flood in Egypt.

Derek Ager argued against Velikovsky's concept of a flood by saying, "The idiocy of some of [Velikovsky's] dogmatic pronouncements is illustrated, for example, in the transport of vast numbers of large vertebrates from the tropics to the Arctic by a great wave that did not, apparently, carry with it a single marine organism."6

The following descriptions about marine organisms found under Egyptian sand dunes and all over the Earth answer Ager's dogmatic pronouncement:

According to James Trifil, some 243 fossilized whale skeletons and loose bones were discovered in a large valley 150 miles southwest of Cairo (100 miles inland from the Mediterranean Sea and more than 200 miles from the Red Sea). These skeletons are of Zeuglodon whales, like those found all over the southeastern United States. The Egyptian whale bones were scattered among the sand dunes; when the wind exposed them, the paleontologists rapidly dug out as much of the fossilized whale as possible because windborne sand erodes exposed bones.7
It is generally accepted that the Sahara Desert was created only after the Ice Age ended and the climate became arid. Therefore, whales had to have embedded themselves into the desert sand after the Ice Age ended and sand formed to cover them. The whales must have been left there recently. If Zeuglodons were lying on or near the surface for about 40 million years, as some paleontologists submit, their bones would have eroded away. If they were encased in rock, over time, and the rock became sand, their bones would have become sand.
Thus, two pieces of information point to a recent oceanic flood in Egypt: water damage on the Sphinx, its surrounding niche and temple, and the presence of whale bones both 100 miles inland from the Mediterranean Sea and 200 miles inland from the Red Sea. Whale bones were also found in other regions of North Africa. Allan O. Kelly and Frank Dachille said, "In Tunisia and Algeria, there are a number of salt lakes, some of them below sea level, which show elevated shorelines of Pleistocene age. The University of California's expedition of 1947 [to] 1948 found the bones of whales along with those of present-day mammals in these old lake beds."8

Presently, whales are not found in landlocked inland lakes in Africa. If Zeuglodons lived 50 million years ago and became extinct soon thereafter, they would never be found in strata containing present-day mammals. The implication is that Zeuglodon whales were deposited into these lakes, along with mammals, by an enormous flood. The trapped whales died alongside the mammals that were swept into the salt lakes with them.
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Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 15, 2007, 12:01:02 am
Excellent article Julia - very facinating. 

I had read a long time ago about the Sphinx being under water and that theory would certainly explain it.  I had tried to imagine what it could have been like for such a disaster to happen, but couldn't even picture it.  The whale bones gives one something to imagine with!  When we were young my brother tried to tell me that the shells high up in the mountains were dropped by birds.  Boy, they must have been some big birds to drop whale bones!!!  Very busy birds too by the sound of it!! ;D

I know I keep repeating myself, but I don't believe scientists on dating things.  I've always believed that the Sphinx was 10,000 years old or older, (and I believed that the Norse Men had been to Canada long before Columbus.)  I believed that the Sphinx and the GP were specifically built where they are so that they WOULD endure for a very long time.  Until we know exactly what they were for, we won't know why they were supposed to last such a long time.  Maybe as markers in case all of mankind was wiped out and ET's eventually landed here, they'd know that there had been civilization on this planet at one time.  If Lobsang Rampa's book is true, then most definitely there was an advanced culture, wiped out in a horrendous cataclysm.  He said the earth tilted, stood still, and then started revolving in the opposite direction.  The few remnants of humanity were almost insane with fear.

I do believe there was an advanced race, otherwise there would be no Indian Vedas talking about flying machines.  There would be no pictures on a tomb wall depicting flying machines.  There would be no Nasca lines or gigantic art works on cliff sides.  In the Vedas, it talks about building these flying machines, and how some are really different - made of wood - while the advanced ones can move up, down, sideways, and at an angle at great speeds.  Then the one "Lord" had a flying machine that could cloak itself.  It would disappear from sight while you were looking at it.  Others were like flying cities.  These were not "gods" flying them, but an advanced race.  They died in war and were not immortal.

I don't know what the Richat Structure is, and it sounds like the scientists that have looked at it don't know either.  They say it's not an impact crater.  No one even knew it was there until we had space flight, so who knows?  It may have been submerged for years, and that being the case, the erosion would not be so great as if it had been in the open air for hundreds of years.  Therefore, to me, it would be hard to date the thing.  At one time, the Med. was part of the ocean, then Arabia was thrown up and the Med was closed off.  Libya was once a green belt.  The Urantia Book too says that with the different changes in the topography of the earth, the winds changed and no longer brought the moisture laden clouds to rain on the fertile areas, and they became deserts.

Blue Hue thinks Atlantis was in the Gulf of Aden.  Plato's story says that when Atlantis sunk, the eastern Med. peoples could no longer navigate the ocean.  How does the sinking of a land in the south end of the Red Sea, affect the people in the Eastern Med.?  They never had access to that route in the first place. UNLESS THEY LIVED 400,000 YEARS AGO BEFORE ARABIA WAS THROWN UP AND THEY WERE CUT OFF THAT WAY.  (Urantia Book time line for Arabia).

I don't believe an advanced society lived 400,000 years ago, but if the oldest Veda is 11,000 years old, and it had been an oral tradition for hundreds of years before that, then obviously there had to be an advanced civilization somewhere within the last 50,000 years.  The Vedas and writings if the East Indians are the oldest there are, and the only ones to actually talk in detail about flying machines.  So perhaps the Atlanteans WERE from there originally or Plato DID make the story up.  Altho it is a possibility that the Egyptian priest indicated to Solon, such things as flying machines.  Solon may not have believed it, but then again, if these were "gods" flying around, he might have.  I can see why the priests of Egypt guarded their knowledge with their lives.  If there IS an ancient flying machine under the Sphinx, it would the most indcredible find in all of history!  And most definitely, history would have to be re-written.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 10:24:08 am
Qoais;     
look:
Prehistoric rock art of the Sahara

Extensive paintings and engravings of wild animals, domesticated cattle, sheep and goats, humans and abstract symbols are found in many areas of the Sahara. These images give a fascinating insight into a lost world that is geographically and archaeologically unexpected.

They are found in remote, inhospitable regions of the desert so arid that any form of sustained human or animal existence is untenable today.

They document prehistoric cultures that apparently thrived in these regions, hunting wild animals and herding domesticated cattle, that have subsequently vanished leaving little trace of their presence or of the richness of their cultures.

The rock-art here was created during at least the past 7,000 years against a backdrop of climatic instability and dramatic oscillations in rainfall and vegetation cover.
Profound changes in the climate in North Africa over the last 12,000 years have had a massive impact on the environment and, consequently, on human occupation and subsistence.

In particular, two 'wet' phases with increased rainfall and surface water enabled vegetation, animals and humans to flourish deep in the desert of today.
These wet phases have been dated between about 12,000-8,000 years ago and 7,000-5 000 years ago.

Periods of increased aridity, one punctuating these two wet phases and the other beginning around 5,000 years ago and becoming more pronounced towards the present, produced an expansion of desert conditions and the abandonment of immense areas of the Sahara.

The earliest rock-art, much of which represents large wild animals such as elephant, giraffe, rhinoceros and a species of buffalo that is now extinct, is believed to have been created by hunter-gatherers more than 7,000 years ago and possibly as early as 10,000 BP (before present).

Domesticated cattle are thought to have been widespread across the Sahara by 6,000-7,000 BP, but were possibly present earlier in certain areas, and representations of them are thought to date to this time.

Subsequent styles of rock-art document the introduction of domesticated sheep and goats, horses and chariots (from around 3,000 BP), and camels (from around 2,000-2,500 BP). More recently, inscriptions in the Tuareg script, tifinagh, have been engraved at many rock-art sites.
Distinct regional differences in the rock-art styles across the Sahara may indicate regional cultural differences, although other explanations for alterations in style and content in different locations should also be entertained.

Acacus is a natural museum that offers a gorgeous desert scenery of cave paintings and drawings up to 10,000 years old. The engravings on the rocks representing animal life around 12,000 B.C and figures of horses and carts dated to 1500 B.C are all scattered throughout Acacus mountains and valleys.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 10:35:10 am
little-known - or poorly-known - heritage, preserved partly by the absence of tourism and offering an array of treasures, has observed the rise and fall of brilliant and sophisticated civilizations on this vast territory. Dating from prehistory to Islamic civilization, the five sites added to the World Heritage List between 1982 and 1986 provide a clear illustration that Libya has a heritage whose incalculable value belongs to all humanity.
Three sites, Cyrene, Leptis Magna and Sabratha, bear witness to the life that flourished in Libya during the Punic, Greek, Roman and Byzantine eras. These sites - and particularly Leptis and Cyrene - are attracting attention from many foreign archaeologists, including teams from France, Italy and the United Kingdom.

Unfortunately, the prehistoric site of Tadrart Acacus, a continuation of Tassili n'Ajjer in Algeria, is deteriorating because of tourists or specialist photographers who wet the cave paintings to make the drawings stand out better, or because of vandalism. Although difficult to get to, this site is not guarded and has no protective mechanisms to keep visitors to keep away.

Similarly, the ancient city of Ghadames, known - like Shibam in Yemen - as the 'pearl of the desert', is gradually falling into ruin because its fragile clay houses are not being maintained. The covered streets are becoming unusable and only a few inhabitants are struggling to pass on to future generations this architectural heritage with its unique style of construction and internal decoration.

All these sites deserve special attention, both from researchers (Théodore Monod, a well-known French biologist, went to the Libyan desert in 1991) and from conservation experts. CRATerre, a department of the Grenoble (France) School of Architecture, specializing in clay architecture, could suggest effective ways of saving the Ghadames houses. UNESCO's Division of Water Sciences could devise a project with local experts to protect Leptis Magna against flooding when the Lebda wadi bursts its banks. The technological sponsorship unit of the EDF (the French electricity company) could take an interest in the problem of Sabratha's deteriorating stones.

The sites are listed below in chronological order, as they entered into the history of the country:


TADRART ACACUS
The mountainous region of Tadrart Acacus is situated near the country's southwest border, east of the city of Ghat. The site also includes the Murzuch desert which bears traces of the different phases of the palaeolithic era, during which hunters lived surrounded by flora and fauna similar to those that today thrive in tropical regions. Tools have been unearthed across an area covering thousands of kilometres. In the Tadrart Acacus mountains, cave paintings and carvings of various styles are scattered throughout almost all the valleys, representing the various cultural groups that lived there during those long periods of prehistory. This cave art, discovered in the Libyan desert of Fezzan, bears witness to marked climatic changes resulting from the gradual encroachment of the desert. Various European experts have studied these paintings and carvings, but it was Professor Fabrizio Mori who succeeded in clearly distinguishing the different periods represented:

carvings on the rock face depicting the outline of large animals from the African savannah (around 12,000 B.C.),
stylized paintings using yellow, green and red pigments of asexual figures with rounded heads, shown by using carbon-14 to have been produced some 8000 years B.C.,
polychromatic representations of bovine animals and Mediterranean-type human figures (around 4000 B.C.),
representations of horses and carts dated at 1500 B.C., believed to refer to the Garamantes tribes mentioned by Herodotus,
monochromic paintings corresponding to the introduction of camels into North Africa at the beginning of the Christian era.
Although the carvings have so far withstood the ravages of time and human intervention, the paintings are disappearing.


CYRENE
This site, located in the Gebel Akhdar region, was founded in the seventh century B.C. in an area where Carthaginian influence was predominant. From the fifth to fourth centuries B.C., this Greek trading post, situated inland, knew its most prosperous period and was able gain the goodwill of Alexander the Great, without falling under his sword. Then in 321 B.C. the satrap of Egypt, Ptolemy, easily gained control of the region. In 96 B.C., one of his descendants relinquished the city to the Romans until the start of its decline, after the tidal wave of 365 A.D.. However, between the third and seventh centuries A.D. the building of churches in Cyrenaica, by then a Christian region, the city of Cyrene and especially its port, Apollonia, testified to the prosperity of the area. This wealth was produced by stock raising, agricultural production and considerable maritime trade.
Cyrene, a city steeped in history and legends for a thousand years, is one of the most complex archaeological sites in the Mediterranean region. Like the other Greek cities of Libya it provides an outstanding example of prosperity in the Mediterranean and African worlds, whose attributes it managed harmoniously to combine.

Monument after monument, the relics found by archaeologists illustrate an extremely clear aesthetic ambition and the religious fervour that inspired the people, focused on their protector, Apollo.

The site of Cyrene, which has not yet been fully explored, contains some remarkable relics from the Greco-Roman period. Among the most important are:


The Sanctuary and Temple of Apollo, the city's oldest cultural building. During the Imperial Roman era, from Trajan to Hadrian, the abundance of water from Apollo's spring led to the building of baths that contains the site's most impressive statues. The sanctuary included a large number of buildings -including temples, porticos and fountains. Not all of them have been identified yet, nor even excavated.
From the Greek theatre to the Roman amphitheatre - west of the Sanctuary of Apollo a huge theatre, a shrine to the Greek god Dionysus, was enlarged during the Roman era and turned into an arena for combats between animals and gladiators.
The city itself comprises the Acropolis, which has hardly been explored. At the centre of the Agora, a circular building has been identified as a shrine to Demeter and Persephone; statues of these two goddesses were discovered within the enclosure. This shrine, which lies outside the city walls, was recently excavated by a group of American archaeologists.
To the east, on a nearby hill, the Cyrenians built the biggest Greek Doric temple in Africa in the sixth century B.C. - the Sanctuary of Zeus, which is comparable to the Temple of Zeus at Olympia.
Finally, the wealth of funerary monuments lends an unforgettable mood to the Cyrenian landscape. A major excavation project in the region has been proposed to the Libyan government by the University of Leicester. The aim of the project would be to identify the links existing between Cyrene and the surrounding area in ancient times.

LEPTIS MAGNA
This site, located on the coast 120 kilometres east of Tripoli, is one of the most extensive archaeological sites in the Mediterranean, measuring 2.5 by 1.5 kilometres.
The little Phoenician port of Leptis, founded at the start of the first millennium B.C. to trade with the Garamantes people, like the other trading posts on the Gulf of Sirte, such as Sabratha, had a distinguished destiny in the second century A.D. when a Libyan, Septimus Severus, became the Roman Emperor. Thanks to him, Leptis became one of the most beautiful cities in the Roman world and remained the best example of 'Severan' urban development.

The city was a megalomaniac's dream, for which nothing seemed too big, too beautiful or too grand - marble replaced stucco, granite took the place of sandstone and basalt was replaced by porphyry. Walls resembled ramparts; streets turned into esplanades.

Leptis was similar to Palmyra and Ephesus: a provincial city with a rural role, like the two other Tripolitanian cities, Sabratha and Oea (now Tripoli).

Under Roman influence from the fall of Carthage in 146 B.C., Leptis was finally annexed to the Empire in the first century A.D. and a thriving grain trade grew up there.

In 193 A.D., after a brilliant political and military career both in Rome and within the Empire, Septimus Severus became emperor.

However, Leptis reached the height of its glory when the Empire started to decline with the first incursions by Vandals in 429. After the Arab invasion, the desert sand once again took possession of the site. In the period between the two world wars, the Italian government paid for a major excavation - 500 men cleared tonnes of sediment and discovered relics that defied imagination.

The city was intact, preserved for centuries by the sand. After the Second World War, French and British archaeologists joined the Italians in their efforts, but it was only when the site was added to the World Heritage List in 1982 that the work really started. Today, a total of 30 major monuments -Hadrian's baths, the Forum covering a hectare of land, the Severan basilica, the port, the main temples, the marketplace, the theatre - have been restored, along with many minor ones. Renovation of the 15,000-seat amphitheatre is almost complete. Hundreds of sculptures and mosaics have been transferred to the museums of Tripoli and Lebda.

Unfortunately the civil engineering structures built by the Romans to protect the city from flooding when the Lebda wadi rose have vanished or are no longer effective.

The site suffered devastating flooding in 1987 and 1988. UNESCO provided emergency aid in the form of equipment to clear the site. Several years were needed to restore this huge site. A flood protection project was proposed by UNESCO in 1990 to put a stop to the problem. However, since September 1994 a British team has started new excavations in the outlying area to the west of the theatre. The team is headed by a professor of Libyan origin, Haled Walda of King's College, London. Meanwhile Professor Buonacasa's Italian teams and the French archaeological expedition led by Professor André Laronde are continuing their excavations in the city centre and the port respectively.


SABRATHA
Located on the coast 60 kilometres east of Tripoli, this city formed a maritime trading triangle with Leptis and Oea between North Africa and the rest of the Mediterranean from Phoenician times until the decline of the Roman Empire. It was a provincial city with a rural role, linking Africa with the Gulf of Sirte via the caravan routes coming from Ghadames.
An integral part of the ephemeral Numidian kingdom of Massinissa, Sabratha was swallowed up by the Roman province of Africa Nova in 46 B.C.

The major monuments were built at the height of the city's prosperity in the second and third centuries A.D. The theatre is the most remarkable of these, with its colonnaded stage wall on three levels and its low reliefs in pink and white marble, directly facing the sea.

The theatre was reconstructed by Italian archaeologists and is now used during the summer for cultural entertainment. However, all the site's pink sandstone structures have been weakened by the ravages of time, especially erosion by sea spray and breezes. The theatre's structural elements were often shored up hastily with the materials available, and the houses on the beach are gradually disappearing, leaving the sea to regain possession of the shore.

Two museums on the site house objects found during the excavations, such as mosaics from the Byzantine period, statues from the Roman era and Phoenician relics. Some of these objects, most of which were unearthed by Italian archaeologists, are believed to require the attention of experienced conservationists working in suitably equipped laboratories. As with the other sites, it is important to define clearly the boundaries of the Sabratha site and to stop people entering it from the beach.


GHADAMES
'An outstanding example of a traditional human settlement which is representative of a culture and which has become vulnerable under the impact of irreversible change.' Unfortunately, the old city has become practically a ghost town. Its fragile houses of clay and unfired brick, decorated inside with whitewash and preserving a degree of coolness in the height of summer, are not being maintained, which means this remarkable example of the traditional housing of Ghadames is slowly disappearing. Ghadames and its oasis cover an area of 225 hectares, 10 hectares of which are occupied by houses in the old city. The site of the houses was determined by the location of the Ain-el-Fras spring.
Roughly circular in shape, the old city is composed of a cluster of houses; those on the outside, with their reinforced external walls, protect the city. This rudimentary enclosure includes gates and projecting bastions. All the houses are built on at least two main levels - the ground floor, reached through a single door opening onto a rectangular room, and the first-floor living quarters linked up over the covered walkways that criss-cross the city like galleries.

The lessening flow of the Ain-el-Fras spring was partly to blame for the desertion of the old city in favour of the modern town, which was built entirely between 1975 and 1983, as well as for the decline of trade and agriculture. Some inhabitants have kept their homes in the old city for the summer months and the celebration of certain festivals.

In 1983 a UNESCO intersectoral mission observed the alarming deterioration of some of the houses, and proposals were made to the Government to revive the old city and install modern amenities to encourage former residents to move back into their old homes. So far no follow-up has been given to the proposals.

In 1990 a feasibility study was presented to UNDP by the United Nations Centre for Human Settlements (Habitat). Its findings gave serious cause for concern - Habitat made it clear that if conservation work on the houses did not start in the next few years, Ghadames would become an archaeological site.

In less than ten years, Ghadames has turned into a ghost town visited only by a few lost tourists. It only comes to life during the hot summer months, when the air conditioning in modern homes is unable to cope with the torrid heat of the Sahara and only the clay houses of the old city maintain a degree of coolness.

The revival of the oasis and its irrigation system is one of the vital conditions for making the gardens of Ghadames bloom again - and for bringing back the inhabitants to maintain the houses and irrigation channels on a regular basis. A national organization to protect the city has authority over any restoration projects and aims to find the resources required to relaunch the city financially, as part of a master plan to develop Libyan cultural sites for tourism.

Nevertheless, people who have visited Ghadames recently report that the situation in 1995 appears desperate. They say an appeal to the international community could be launched by the Libyan government as soon as possible to prevent the city from disappearing completely.

With the prospect of opening up the country to cultural tourism to encourage sustainable development and to make its cultural sites better known, a concentrated and concerted effort by the various national bodies responsible for this heritage is needed to make it possible to appeal effectively for expertise and resources from the international community. The Sabratha Theatre, the Forum of Severus at Leptis, the Sanctuary of Zeus at Cyrene, and the houses and covered streets of Ghadames, as well as the cave paintings of Tadrart Acacus, should be preserved for future generations as an outstanding example of Mediterranean culture.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dr_ibrahim_ighneiwa/libher.htm

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Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 10:41:01 am
The cave of swimmersdiscoveredby count Almasy(English patient)
http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/rockart.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 15, 2007, 12:09:54 pm
Beautiful Rock Art Julia


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 04:46:45 pm
Dear Qoais I looked for the painting which some Swimming and drowning people on it..I saw somewhere in the internet some saharan pcave or rock painbtings which have drowning people on the,,And they were saying It descibes the big flood.but, I couldnt find now.I think it was either Libya or Algeria.may be in the west sahara..But, the people painted there the big flood.Thats why I thought they must came from Atlantis.And This berber people or Tuaregs are supposedly mostly people withblond and blue eyed..I think those people could have been migratedfrom the Atlantis..But, This Structure is really worth it to dig there and research I dont know why somebody dont do that..Instead of looking anywhere else/you knew Ulf Richters work didnt you??


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 15, 2007, 04:58:14 pm
No Julia, I'd never heard of Ulf until after he'd passed away.  I had just started posting on the AR site when it was mentioned.  I understood everyone there had high respect for him, but I didn't know who he was.  I haven't read his work either.  Sounds like maybe I should.  Do you have any links to his work?  I typed in his name and everything came up in German.  Then I clicked on English Only and there was a lot of Richters but not him.  Am I spelling it right?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 05:35:56 pm
Yes Ypou spell it right ...let me look
Here is the discussion about it:
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000813#000038

I found before Ulf Richters theory.I will try to find again.but, he is right this is the Atlantis


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 06:17:11 pm
Here is Ulf Richter sTheory:
http://www.black-sea-atlantis.com/richter.pdf


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 15, 2007, 06:37:25 pm
Look Qoais:
                         
 http://www.marine-geo.org/images/Dome3D.jpg

And Look at this supposedly Atlantis picture;

http://atlantisinireland.com/11600.jpg
It looks almost the same.How people ignore things I dont know..This has to be really dug around and    researched.Supposedly must be a meteorite there.But I dont believe it..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 12:17:55 am
Thanks Julia
I will try to make time to read Ulf Richter's work this weekend.

For the Richat Structure to be Atlantis, it would have to be smaller, and it would have to be nearer the ocean.  I can't remember off hand how long the canal was that they dug out to the sea (ocean) but I think it was only 6 or 9 miles or something like that.  The Richat Structure is too far inland, unless the ocean was different back then. 

Plato also says there were triremes in the harbour.  Either he is using that expression because he does not have another word to use for huge ships, or, Atlantis still existed after 800 BC when Triremes were introduced.  Since Atlantis sunk 9000 years previously, or even 900 years previously (to Solon) there could not have been Triremes in the Atlantis harbour.  If it was only 900 years prior to Solon, we're back at the argument that Atlantis should be well recorded in all the histories of the Med. peoples.  The Spanish, the Italian, the Greeks, the Egyptians, etc., and artifacts should be able to be found in plenty.  Therefore - A) Plato made it up B) There was some type of 3-tiered ship that Plato didn't have a word for prior to triremes (and we've never found evidence of, C) The Atlanteans had a different name and the theories that the Berbers etc. were their decendants are true. 
I vote for C.  Mainly because not every single Atlantean could have been wiped out with a tsunami.  If they had an empire as big as Plato says, there would be tens of thousands that were not affected by a tsuanami.  Maybe there were some visiting in Egypt when this tsunami struck.  They would live to tell the tale.  No, I think whoever Plato was calling the Atlanteans, didn't even know he gave them that name, and their decendants still don't know it.

I'm beginning to think that Plato really did get a few things mixed up.  Oral stories, no matter how well memorized, will still get confused.  I think some of this tale could be related to a culture that was so old, that even now, we would not believe it had existed.

Robsang Lampa says that the advanced culture he witnessed in the cave of the Ancients was here when the earth was young.  Destroyed when the earth titled on it's axis, stopped spinning and began again in the opposite direction.  How long ago was that?  He says the poor wretches who survived were mad with fear, and when it was finally over, and the few who were left came out of the tunnels and caves and eventually started roaming the land again, they told stories around their campfires of Mu and Atlantis and the great flood and the day the sun stood still.  Over time, their decendants would carry the story but gradually it would become so faded in the past that they thought the elders were talking about gods walking the earth.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 16, 2007, 10:04:49 am
Dear Qoais:
look at the Herodotus map:
http://www.paim.net/images/herodotus1.jpg
I dont know do we need any other evidence?
lets find some foundation and go there and Dig it !!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 11:48:46 am
Hi Julia - you are in a hurry aren't you :D :D  Yes of course we'd need more evidence! ;D

I think it would be better to try to figure out just what the lay of the land was in the supposed time Atlantis existed.  Personally, I think it was a lot farther back than we think.  Then, see if we can find some more of these natural structures, since it's likely that the people took advantage of this natural formation, especially because it would protect them from wild animals and such and then eventually as they progressed and built irrigation for crops, and boats to travel, the set-up would work very well.  Just think about it.  They could watch nature at work and copy it.  A river or two comes down from the mountains, enters these canals and egresses out the other side.  The water is always there as it's a catch basin also, and then they observe say, a log, floating down the river with some sort of animal stranded on top.  The idea strikes them that they too, could ride a log and eventually, they decide it would be better to ride something flat, so they make rafts.  And on and on it goes.  Then say one day after a flood or something, they see the water has eroded a cave or tunnel in the side of the surrounding embankment.  They get busy and dig the rest of the way, and now have access to the sea and fishing, etc.  Ain't nature wonderful!!!!  She's a great teacher for sure.

What does seem strange to me is that if this Richat structure has been there all along, say for millions of years, why isn't it covered in sand already?  Supposedly the sand is encroaching now, so why didn't it encroach for all these years?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 12:02:33 pm
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 Skywatching Guide
 
Did the Earth Flip Over in the Past?
August 31st, 2006


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Graphic of the Earth's flip. Image credit: Maloof Laboratory
Click to enlarge
Imagine a shift in the Earth so profound that it could force our entire planet to spin on its side after a few million years, tilting it so far that Alaska would sit at the equator. Princeton scientists have now provided the first compelling evidence that this kind of major shift may have happened in our world's distant past.

By analyzing the magnetic composition of ancient sediments found in the remote Norwegian archipelago of Svalbard, Princeton University's Adam Maloof has lent credence to a 140-year-old theory regarding the way the Earth might restore its own balance if an unequal distribution of weight ever developed in its interior or on its surface.

The theory, known as true polar wander, postulates that if an object of sufficient weight — such as a supersized volcano — ever formed far from the equator, the force of the planet's rotation would gradually pull the heavy object away from the axis the Earth spins around. If the volcanoes, land and other masses that exist within the spinning Earth ever became sufficiently imbalanced, the planet would tilt and rotate itself until this extra weight was relocated to a point along the equator.

"The sediments we have recovered from Norway offer the first good evidence that a true polar wander event happened about 800 million years ago," said Maloof, an assistant professor of geosciences. "If we can find good corroborating evidence from other parts of the world as well, we will have a very good idea that our planet is capable of this sort of dramatic change."

Maloof's team, which includes researchers from Harvard University, the California Institute of Technology and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as well as Princeton, will publish their findings in the Geological Society of America Bulletin on Friday, Aug. 25.

True polar wander is different from the more familiar idea of "continental drift," which is the inchwise movement of individual continents relative to one another across the Earth's surface. Polar wander can tip the entire planet on its side at a rate of perhaps several meters per year, about 10 to 100 times as fast as the continents drift due to plate tectonics. Though the poles themselves would still point in the same direction with respect to the solar system, the process could conceivably shift entire continents from the tropics to the Arctic, or vice versa, within a relatively brief geological time span.

While the idea that the continents are slowly moving in relation to one another is a well-known concept, the less familiar theory of true polar wander has been around since the mid-19th century, several decades before continental drift was ever proposed. But when the continents were proven to be moving under the influence of plate tectonics in the 1960s, it explained so many dynamic processes in the Earth's surface so well that true polar wander became an obscure subject.

"Planetary scientists still talk about polar wander for other worlds, such as Mars, where a massive buildup of volcanic rock called Tharsis sits at the Martian equator," Maloof said. "But because Earth's surface is constantly changing as the continents move and ocean crustal plates slide over and under one another, it's more difficult to find evidence of our planet twisting hundreds of millions of years ago, as Mars likely did while it was still geologically active."

However, the sediments that the team studied in Svalbard from 1999 to 2005 may have provided just such long-sought evidence. It is well known that when rock particles are sinking to the ocean floor to form layers of new sediment, tiny magnetic grains within the particles align themselves with the magnetic lines of the Earth. Once this rock hardens, it becomes a reliable record of the direction the Earth's magnetic field was pointing at the time of the rock's formation. So, if a rock has been spun around by a dramatic geological event, its magnetic field will have an apparently anomalous orientation that geophysicists like those on Maloof's team seek to explain.

"We found just such anomalies in the Svalbard sediments," Maloof said. "We made every effort to find another reason for the anomalies, such as a rapid rotation of the individual crustal plate the islands rest upon, but none of the alternatives makes as much sense as a true polar wander event when taken in the context of geochemical and sea level data from the same rocks."

The findings, he said, could possibly explain odd changes in ocean chemistry that occurred about 800 million years ago. Other similar changes in the ocean have cropped up in ancient times, Maloof said, but at these other times scientists know that an ice age was to blame.

"Scientists have found no evidence for an ice age occurring 800 million years ago, and the change in the ocean at this juncture remains one of the great mysteries in the ancient history of our planet," he said. "But if all the continents were suddenly flipped around and their rivers began carrying water and nutrients into the tropics instead of the Arctic, for example, it could produce the mysterious geochemical changes science has been trying to explain."

Because the team obtained all its data from the islands of Svalbard, Maloof said their next priority would be to seek corroborating evidence within sediments of similar age from elsewhere on the planet. This is difficult, Maloof said, because most 800-million-year-old rocks have long since disappeared. Because the Earth's crustal plates slide under one another over time, they take most of geological history back into the planet's deep interior. However, Maloof said, a site his team has located in Australia looks promising.

"We cannot be certain of these findings until we find similar patterns in rock chemistry and magnetics on other continents," Maloof said. "Rocks of the same age are preserved in the Australian interior, so we'll be visiting the site over the next two years to look for additional evidence. If we find some, we'll be far more confident about this theory's validity."

Maloof said that true polar wander was most likely to occur when the Earth's landmasses were fused together to form a single supercontinent, something that has happened at least twice in the distant past. But he said we should not worry about the planet going through a major shift again any time soon.

My comment:
Unless of course, some event happens beyond our control that causes the weight of the earth to change - like a planet coming into orbit and causing a gravitational pull,  or a chain reaction of volcanoes, or the sun going nova, etc. etc.  Since this is a fairly new theory, it may not be totally correct either.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 03:01:01 pm
The more I search, the more I'm convinced that "Atlantis" or some very advanced culture, existed so far back in time that we wouldn't credit it.  If all the stories are even partially true, then the scientific time line for the events in the stories, puts them waaaay back.  I mean, the Vedas are supposedly 11,000 years old, and there was an oral tradition for who knows how long before that.  It had to come from somewhere.  According to modern science, humans weren't much developed 11,000 years ago, but if that's the case, how did it come to pass that they had an oral record of how to build flying machines?  Curioser and Curioser.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 16, 2007, 04:13:42 pm



Q,

Maybe you'd like to read ( or re-read ) Edgar Cayce for some answers to your questions,
including why the Indians knew what they did.

Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 06:24:41 pm
Hi Bianca
Funny you should say that.  My friend popped in a couple of days ago with an Edgar Cayce book she'd found at the library for 10 Cents.  She figured I'd read them all but for 10 cents, who cares - it's a hard cover.  So she bought it for me and it turns out it's the only one I've never read - River of Souls.  And if I did read it, it was so long ago a re - read wouldn't hurt.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 16, 2007, 06:59:13 pm



Q.

LOL, there are no coincidences.  Remember how you steered me to Rampa a few months

ago?

Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2007, 07:43:17 pm
Right - no co-incidences.  I meant the title was There Is A River.  Sometimes I wonder about me!!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 16, 2007, 07:54:36 pm


"There is a River" was EC's first biography, written by Tom Sugrue, his son's best friend and

a very talented young man.  He died young and there was nothing EC could do to help.

Karma is karma.......

Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on June 18, 2007, 05:18:34 am
*** Julia *** the 3D image you submitted of the Richat Structure is very impressive. Also the map showing the NW corner of Africa and the ATLAS mountains as an ISLAND is actually very close to being an accurate portrayal of the Lay of the Land in recent geological history . If you check out the elevations of the terrain of that STRIP of LAND [including the Richat Structure] from the Atlantic Ocean just south of the Tropic of Cancer to the Gulf of Gabes in the Med you will see an area of Depression that is near Sea Level and some parts ARE BELOW SEA LEVEL ! This area is a series of salt flats and salt lakes including the supposed Tritonis Region. It is quite obvious and a most probable reality that this area was once underwater and created an island that created 2 entrances to the Mediterranean. So is this the Legendary "ATLAS ISLAND" ??? Qoais I disagree with you. The Richat Structure WAS near the ocean. In fact the limestone/calcium composition indicates it originated on an ancient sea bottom !   *DDn*** c.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 18, 2007, 05:46:22 pm
Hi 3D
Did I say the Richat Structure was not near the ocean?  I must be losing it because my argument was going to be that it was actually IN the ocean when the lay of the land was different.  That's why I cut up the map and stuck it back together again.  I should have done a better job of it, because I was trying to show that the Med was a lot larger back when, and that these salt marshes must have been leftovers from when the Med. got cut off from the ocean.  Then when Gibralter broke, they got water back again for a time, and then dried up again.  I was thinking that if Atlantis peoples made use of these natural structures that were heaved up, it would make a lot of sense.  Anything natural was credited to the "gods", so I figured perhaps a natural structure was utilized.  When I realized just where the Richat Structure was, it fit in with my theory that this would have been on the edge of the ocean at one time. 

If I said it was not near enough to the ocean NOW, I was probably referring to the argument I'm having with Georgeos in the other forum, where he is so emphatic about Plato's measurements and just how far the city was from the ocean.  So by THAT standard, the distance is too great, but by ancient standards, it was likely nearer the water.  Supposedly, the measurements for the area within the rings is a lot smaller than the Richat structure, but whose to say they didn't add on to it over the years?  And if that isn't the place, perhaps tho, Atlantis was built on a similar structure.  To me this would be totally logical.  It would have the natural springs from the cracks in the salt dome, it had natural rings to guide the water down from the mountains, as well as act as a catch basin, and provide protection when the rings were full of water, from animals and enemies. 

Georgeos has argued that it wasn't noticed until we had space flight.  Perhaps no one had reason to fly over that barren spot before.  Or if they did, it may have been covered in sand or maybe it had sunk and is lifting again.

That "depression" you talk about - I have noticed this also.  I've been staring for hours and the area with Google Earth and Nasa worldwind.  It looks to me like water at one time, went rushing out and left it's impression on the desert floor.  I wasn't sure tho, if this theory was right, so I've been looking for maps that show the areas that still have a bit of dampness.  Then I realized Lake Tritonis had to have been huge, and that for the Amazons to attack the Atlanteans and they were neighbors, and both lived on a huge island, the land had to be different.  Therefore, I concluded that perhaps Lake Tritonis extended to the ocean in the west, or very close to it, making an island or Nesos out of the northwest tip of Africa, Spain, etc.  Lake Tritonis would have been then, part of the ocean. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 18, 2007, 06:17:07 pm
The reason I'm trying to figure out just how far back in the past Atlantis was born is because I'm working on something else as well.  People keep saying there isn't a place on earth that hasn't been proposed for Atlantis, but there is one, and I'm trying to work it out.  But this location would definitely put the age of Atlantis back hundreds of thousands of years.  So I'm going slowly. :P


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 18, 2007, 10:09:45 pm
Dear Qoais: May be the name of "Atlantis" is just made up.)plato says that already the place had another name..The Places name is taken from Tantalis story(in Turkey Smyrna_manisa)But As a description And geography fits in this Richat structure.I dont care what georgeos of Spain says..There is no inmdication whatsoever Atlantis was In Spain..may be it was an Island between Spain and Africa.Thats why mauritanio, Iberian empire..He cannot prove about the measurments.because In the critias it saysThe last Circle had 168 km.diameter(The water draningae circle)..So, the circle before that must have been 50 kilmeter diameter..It is in front of a river mouth..And Look at the surroundings in the Satellite picture It is Bluegreen algea..why should be a desrt place Blue green.did you pay attention to the land??As if something cut to two and Atlantis is in between..It is obvious that place was under water..than may be dried out again..I think the surrounding geography is really strange.As if pulled and Pushed or something like that.dont you think so??
And The rgions name is" Ad-ar".dont this remind you something?"the people of "Ad" I wonder The yemenites came from there.Herodot talks about two ethgiopias.I wonder one was in Mauritania first and second one is todays Ethiopia.And Then this people went to egypt and Built EGypt.. I dont know , I cannot prove anything unless someone digs out there ..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 18, 2007, 10:40:35 pm
And Look at the measurments:
"At the top of the central hill, a temple was built to honor Poseidon which housed a giant gold statue of Poseidon riding a chariot pulled by winged horses. It was here that the rulers of Atlantis would come to discuss laws, pass judgments, and pay tribute to Poseidon..

To facilitate travel and trade, a water canal was cut through of the rings of land and water running south for 5.5 miles (~9 km) to the sea.

The city of Atlantis sat just outside the outer ring of water and spread across the plain covering a circle of 11 miles (1.7 km). This was a densely populated area where the majority of the population lived.

Beyond the city lay a fertile plain 330 miles (530 km) long and 110 miles (190 km) wide surrounded by another canal used to collect water from the rivers and streams of the mountains. The climate was such that two harvests were possible each year. One in the winter fed by the rains and one in the summer fed by irrigation "
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/story.html
Aint it fit in to the Richat structure?? outside ring is 300 miles..So It is big..

--------------------


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 18, 2007, 11:38:28 pm
Hi Julia
Yes there are a lot of neat correlations.  I'm still so confused about the size that it boggles my brain.  I was thinking too you know, about language.  Or shall I say, the pronunciation of a word by someone whose first language is different.  I don't know how different "Egyptian" in those days, was from Greek in those days, but I bet it was quite different.  What if the priest pronounced the word one way, and Solon wrote it down in HIS language, the WAY it sounded to him, but it wasn't that way at all?
Plato did say not to be surprised to hear Hellenistic names in the story, because Solon had asked the meaning of the names, and then wrote the names down in Greek for the Greek meaning.  He could have assumed what this word meant, and then wrote down what he thought it meant, and it might not even be close.

We have a mentally handicapped son, and years ago he kept saying "I want to see wah-dee-nee".  We could not for the life of us figure out what he wanted.  Then one day we're all watching TV and he says "See ? - wah-dee-nee".  We were watching Walt Disney!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 02:12:00 am
If Atlantis was built on a salt dome, the Atlanteans had more than just convenience of water storage and irrigation.  It seems that where there are salt domes, there is petroleum and natural gas - how convenient - but also a beautiful white, alabaster type rock is formed which is great for carving.  Also, (altho the Atlanteans didn't have worry about freezing!) the springs from a salt dome don't freeze, but stay at a constant temperature because of the high salt content.  (Until they hit the frigid surface).

Hot springs in the High Arctic

(May 19, 2006)  Nunatsiaq News (Jane George)

Axel Heiberg’s salt domes mean running water, carving stone and maybe oil and gas

Imagine a spring flowing throughout the dark polar winter, when temperatures dip well below zero for months on end.

But this isn’t a fantasy: you can find springs like these on Nunavut’s Axel Heiberg Island, where, in some places, water emerges year-round out of ice and permafrost half a kilometre thick.

The springs’ water temperature remains constant, up to 6°C, regardless of the external air or ground temperature.

McGill University research expeditions first noticed these perennial springs near Expedition Fiord on Axel Heiberg in the 1960s. Dr. Wayne Pollard of McGill and his team have since detected and mapped about 40 similar springs on the island.

There are the only two other places in the world where springs of this type exist: in the La Popa Basin in Mexico and the Great Kavir Desert of Iran.

The origins of these springs go back to a time when the region lay on the bottom on an ancient, salty seabed 500 to 65 million years ago.

Even 55 million years ago, Axel Heiberg was a much warmer place, also home to sprawling forests of redwoods. The mummified remnants of some of these ancient forests can still be seen on the island’s Geodetic Hills.

The wet, warm climate of Axel Heiberg’s long ago past is gone, so the water that feeds today’s springs is melt or rain water, which sinks into the earth, or comes from deep underground. This water then returns to the surface through these salt deposits, as if squeezed through a toothpaste tube.

As a result, the water in these springs is salty, about five to 10 times as saline as seawater. The salt in this water ups the freezing point, allowing the water to remain in a liquid state all year round — or at least until it reaches the surface.

There are also other types of springs, which are high in sulphur or methane.

While the springs’ presence tells much about the warmer and turbulent geological past of Axel Heiberg, they may hold the key to the island’s warmer future, which could include gas or oil development.

That’s because these unusual springs are also associated with the presence of salt deposits, called salt domes or “salt diapirs.” Salt domes often signal the presence of gas and oil deposits in the vicinity, although these may lie very deep down.

“Where oil, gas and ground water occur under sheets of subsurface salt, there may be places where these fluids are trapped. If the oil and gas is abundant enough, then there is the chance for a commercial resource,” said Christopher Harrison of the Geological Survey of Canada, who has also studied diapirs in the High Arctic Islands. “This is a common setting for oil and gas in the Gulf of Mexico region where diapirs and salt sheets are also abundant.”

The Canadian Space Agency suspects that Axel Heiberg’s springs may reveal where past life existed on Mars. As these springs are warm, they contain live bacteria and other life forms, so they are considered to be similar to places where life may once have flourished on the now-frozen planet Mars.

Geologist Marcos Zentilli from Dalhousie University has CSA and other research money lined up to study the springs and salt domes. In July, Zentilli wants to return to Axel Heiberg to make better maps of the salt domes, collect hand-size samples of rocks within and around dome, and take measurements to estimate the growth of salt domes, which sometimes grow by as much as five cm a year.

But lack of logistical support from the Polar Continental Shelf Project and funding from International Polar Year, are making this research much harder to carry out.

“It’s our responsibility as scientists to understand more,” Zentilli says. “Where else can we find mountains that are actually growing?”

Zentilli also suggests the stone of alabaster quality, which is abundant near many of the domes, could be also used as an “inexhaustible source” of carving stone.

In the dry climate of the Arctic, summertime evaporation around the springs can lead to rock salt, gypsum and other less common minerals precipitating out of the water. The right combination of water and evaporation at a spring sometimes leads to large build-ups of unusual, brilliant white stone.

Last year, Resolute Bay carver Simeonie Amagoalik fashioned a piece of this stone into a seal, and found it fine to work with: yet another surprising by-product of Axel Heiberg’s unique springs and salt domes.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 02:25:30 am
Originally posted by 3D:

Quote
Also the map showing the NW corner of Africa and the ATLAS mountains as an ISLAND is actually very close to being an accurate portrayal of the Lay of the Land in recent geological history

3D - do you have references for this?  That would be wonderful.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on June 19, 2007, 06:59:04 pm
 * * * Hi Qoais * * * The map i was referring to was from June 14  reply # 136 that Julia submitted .
 it has your name in it . . . but i don't know where it originated ?
 Is it yours? Here it is :
 http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/VeryancientAtlantis.jpg

That is why i asked you why you dissected Africa the way you did on your WORLD MAP of your version of Ancient Geography ?
The NW corner of Africa is submerged on your version . . . eventho its a small detail on a world map . . . as an area of focus that we're all are engaging in . . . I believe it is very important to indicate the ATLAS mountains as an ISLAND  [ or peninsula ? ] when we portray or suggest the lay of the land from those ancient times. 
       If the entrance or ONE OF the entrances to the Western  Med was from the west coast of Africa around 21-22 degrees N. that is a very important piece of information. The Richat structure would become relevant ! **DnD**


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 07:14:38 pm
I knew you'd follow my thinking 3D.  Yes, I cut the map up and and I was trying to show that if the parts I've indicated were an island, as the old maps show, then there was another entrance to the Med other than Gibralter.  Therefore, the Richat Structure could have been the location of Atlantis.  I wanted more information on all this before I made my final conclusion, but it's coming out faster and faster!  You may recall that in Robert's Forum, I theorized that this city we're calling Atlantis may not have been a ground mounted city originally.  It could have been a flying craft such as the Vedas describe as being built like a temple.  That is how Plato describes the core.  If the originators were fleeing from a war or something, or even if they wanted to colonize the rest of the world and landed the craft there, they could have camoflaged it as a temple.  They could have built the rings to protect it from humans and animals until such time as they got a civilization built up.  Whoever they were, they lived long lives, if the Emerald Tablets of Thoth are true.  He was a remnant of the last destruction of Atlantis and flew East in his ship to "raise up the people of Khem" (Egypt).  Him and a few others.  If the ship was the central core of the circles, it will be gone of course, and supposedly he then buried it beneath the Sphinx.  Apparently at quite a depth.  But also apparently it will still be functionable for someone who knows how to use it.  I suspect that he was the last of the "good" guys, as he taught the Egyptians spirituality as well as technology and farming.  I think the last one in history, the one to lead Moses, was not so righteous.  He killed everything in his path to get a certain few people to a "promised" land.  Doesn't sound like a spiritually enlightened person to me.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 07:43:19 pm
Between the Everburning Lamps that seemed to be powered by Mercury and the Vimanas that also used mercury, I think there is some element of mercury that we haven't tapped into. I had a lot more information on the Vimanas when I was posting in Robert Sarmast's site, but have lost it now. I did save some of my posts at one time so will check and see if I have still them.

After reading the Vedas , or what there is in English, and reading Sitchin's works, and checking out a number of things, I had started to think that the City of Atlantis was NOT a "city" at all. I was thinking that it was a rather large flying craft, that was either put down at a certain location for reasons of communications - like in a grid pattern - one to the other, then the next, etc. Or, it was a craft that had to leave it's origins and find a new home. Maybe that nuclear war ended most of the flying craft, and this one found it's way to the western side of the land mass, and set down there. Able to support life for a time until a real city was established, they circled it with water rings to keep out the humans and animals. These craft were built in copy of the gound-mount buildings, so it would look just like a temple. They definitely had the technology to bring up springs from the earth, and flying over the land would certainly give them a birdseye view of the best place to land and start a new life. I don't suppose there was all that many on board, so if there was no one on board who knew how to build water going craft, that would explain why it took so long to develop that invention. Evenutally, when they realized that their part of the world was breaking up, Thoth, or whoever - flew the thing to Egypt where he then buried it under the Sphinx.
(What ancient writer said that the temples of the Atlanteans were "barbarous looking? I'm sure I read that somewhere)
Was it not the innermost wall of the rings that had orichlcum? How do we know this actually came from the ground here on earth? The people who made these craft, if they came from another planet, would tell you this ore was mined, but if they didn't tell you it was mined on another planet, how would you know? Plato said it once existed, but now it's only a name. Perhaps because it didn't originate here on earth. The innermost wall would be the wall of the ship.

In Sitchin's works, the Anunnaki developed rice and grains worthy of eating from cross breeding the wild varieties they found here. Wheat is a manipulated grain. I don't know about rice. The Amazons did not eat grains because they hadn't been "discovered" yet by them.

Ahenaten had a wierd face. Very long, narrow, sunken and with strange long slanted eyes. It would not surprise me if he really was a direct decendant of these people with the flying craft - using a non-scientific term - a throw-back to what his ancestors could have looked like. He was highly entellectual and according to history was a spiritual person.

I always wondered why the Egyptians and no one else depict their gods with animal heads. Perhaps their heads looked different or something, and they wore "masks" for some reason. Maybe at first they wore breathing apparatus and this was designed and fashioned in the shape of something else. The Egyptians did that with everything. They couldn't just build a pillar - it had to look like something - mainly lotus flowers or whatever.
So - I figure Atlantis could have been the name of this flying craft - altho who knows what language it was in originally. We always name ships don't we?

The Vedas really confirm for me that there was still at least one flying craft around to lead Moses out of Egypt.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 08:08:30 pm
I do think that Plato's story, however he got it, was originally a story by one of the Bok orators who travelled the earth to keep the colonies updated and taught the histories with the sound system.  In the movie "Roots" the American/African whose ancestors had been slaves had a verbal history of their tribe in Africa from before they were slaves.  Then the character in the book decides to go to Africa to see if he can find his originating tribe.  To do that, he had to listen for hours to a "rememberer" who told the history of the tribe from the beginning.  Every detail of everyone in the tribe, for hours.  He did discover his own heritage in the end.

I have been thinking that the world was different at the time of the real Atlantis, and the mix-ups come perhaps for a number of reasons.  Either Solon and Plato did belong to an elite society that were part of the line of rememberers, and weren't supposed to actually reveal the location, or he just copied something he thought he understood, and to describe what and where he THOUGHT Atlantis was, he used the vocabulary of his time.  I think that Iberia and the Atlas mountains and part of N.W. Africa, as well as England, Europe and the Scandinavian countries, were at one time, if not an island, then a giant nesos, or peninsula.  I believe they did at one time speak a language they could all understand, and even if dialects developed, the old language was re-taught or reminded to the people thru the sound system of the Bok Saga.

 

I have no doubt in my mind, that there was definitely an advanced technological society somewhere back in history, and bits and pieces of it are coming to light.  More and more now, as this groundswell of events builds to a climax.  The apex or eye of this storm shall we say, likely centres in Egypt.  It seems strange to me that the Directors of Antiquities of Egypt would build a 20 foot high wall around the Giza project at this late date.  If the pyramids are crumbling, and they don't or can't repair them, why spend all that money protecting them?  Supposedly, other than being a tourist attraction, they are useless.  Tourists would still be able to see them, if they pay to get through a gate, but how is paying a gate fee going to save the pyramids?  Personally, I believe the Egyptians know what's inside the pyramid, and it WILL change history when they finally reveal it. Once it IS revealed, the whole world will be on their doorstep and they want to be prepared.  All other countries will be demanding that they excavate the Giza complex so the whole world will know what has been hidden for so long.  As in the beginning, some will want to use the technology for war and devastation, so great care will have to be taken with whatever is discovered.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 08:18:02 pm


Q:



                                (http://www.atlantisquest.com/vimana.jpg)

                                       V I M A N A S
                                       
                                        AERIAL VEHICLES OF ANCIENT INDIA


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 08:21:13 pm
I had mentioned that I was working on something else, but time is getting away on me and my chores here on the farm are suffering.  My husband is not in the best of health, so I have to cover some of his work also, and I'm spending way too much time on the computer.

Robsang Lampa had made a small mention of the fact that "Atlantis" was now buried under the mountains of Tibet.  If you haven't read Lampa's book, at least read the Chapter called Cave of the Ancients.  

Part of the reason I was trying to figure out the lay of the land was to find out just how old Atlantis really was.  In the maps I posted of the changing land masses, we see that the Med. was open and Tibet was almost on the edge of the shore.  This is a looong way back, and if it existed that far back in time, no one would believe it.  But the Cave of the Ancients is in Tibet, so it makes sense that the ancients would build a cave near where they were at the time, to create a time capsule for the future.  Obviously, the cave survived the ordeal better than did the city.  

Perhaps then, we have a number of civilizations that rose and fell, and perhaps one of these time capsules was found in the ancient past, when civilization had once again risen to the technological level to understand, and they too, built a time capsule for the future.
That future I think, is almost upon us.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 08:21:40 pm


AN ANCIENT AIRPLANE
By R. Cedric Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ancient vimanas described in the Vedic and Puranic literature of India are so fabulous in their capabilities and construction, one might, with good reason, wonder if such things were actualities. However, we must keep in mind that for the most part they were the products of a civilization and technology foreign to this planet. However, good evidence does exist indicating that more modest versions were built in ancient times by the aeronautical engineers of India and a few other places.


A manuscript, composed in Sanskrit by King Bhoja in the 11th Century A.D., deals with techniques of warfare, and in particular with certain types of war machines. The work is called Samarangana Sutradhara, or "Battlefield Commander"(sometimes abbreviated "the Samar"), and the whole of chapter 31 is devoted to the construction and operation of several kinds of aircraft having various methods of propulsion.


King Bhoja, who used the Sanskrit term yantra more often than the more familiar vimana, claims his knowledge was based on Hindu manuscripts which were ancient even in his time. Some of the techniques of manufacture described therein have been in use by British and American aircraft companies since World War I, and have been found to be sound aeronautical principles even though described nearly a thousand years earlier in this old Sanskrit work. The word vimana is used only once in these passages, in spite of numerous appearances in some translations. In looking over the complete text, it is perfectly clear that several types of aerial machines are being described.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 19, 2007, 08:27:24 pm
dear Bianca and Qoais:
nothing is impossible.may be the Outer space people did visited us..Qoais We have to find out about History of the Richat structure to find out the truth.may be like you said It was built in WWI or @..Of course if it is anew thing we cannot say it is Atlantis..
Is there a history about it??


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 08:30:48 pm

                                            SAMARANGANA SUTRADHARA


Strong and durable must the machine's body be made of light material, having wings joined smoothly with invisible seams. It can carry passengers, it can be made small and compact, it can move in silence. If sound is to be used successfully, there must be great flexibility in the driving mechanism, and all must be put together faultlessly. In order for it to accomplish its intended purpose, it must last a long time, it must be well covered in . . . it must not become too hot, too stiff, nor too soft, and its sharp-pointed battering ram must also be long lasting. Indeed, the machine's main qualities, which are remembered by one and all, include unending motion, which is to say perpetual motion. Smoothness is one of the machines supreme qualities, thus, the workings of the machines is versatile, complete, not given to expansion, not complaining, and always suitable. . .


At this point the text becomes most interesting . . . but also the most difficult. It is evident that essential elements in the propulsion system are deliberately vague--or completely left out. The reason for this is explained later in the text. I can see why this has never appeared in any of the English translations. (The hiatus indicated by ". . ." involves about five Sanskrit words, and "expanding" is one of them, and "wished for" is another. I wish I could offer a more complete translation.)


At the critical time the beam of fire must be released, which will make the action possible. The time-beam expands, accompanied by sound . . . the expansion performs work like an elephant in an endless cycle.


Further along in the text is a paragraph which mentions using wood as a potential building material in the construction of a yantra; then jumps into a description of a propulsion system which may use a fuel similar to gasoline.


The manufacturing of a conquering yantra is greatly desired . . . using light-weight wood to build a great air-going machine of a strong-bodied type. In the central container is the liquid consumed by the engine, which gradually burns away during complete combustion.


Fully renown is the conquering of the following motions: Vertical ascent; Vertical descent; Forwards; Backwards; Normal ascent; Normal descent; Slanting; Progressing over long distances, through proper adjustment of the working parts . . . And its musical sound and throbbing thunder can easily drown out the trumpeting of the elephant in panic. It can be moved by musical tones.


Shining in every direction, their machine (yantra) could travel wherever the imagination dictated. From their great height they saw stimulating dances, drama plays, and pristine dance ceremonies. The machine gained renown among Royal dynasties and various nations. In such a manner the High-Souled ones flew, while the lower classes walked. All those friends succeeded in their much-deserved acquisition of a yantra, by means of which human beings can fly in the air, and non-earthling, Celestial Beings, can come down to mortals in their visits to Earth.


Some of the aircraft seemed to be winged like a modern aeroplane, but such a craft could not go backwards, nor could it ascend or descend vertically. No doubt, the term "dual-winged" appears in the following text in conjunction with some sort of air, or jet, propulsion.


. . .Thus inside one must place the Mercury-engine; and properly mounted beneath it, the iron heating apparatus. Men thusly set the dual-winged, driving whirlwind in motion. The concealed pilot, by means of the mercury-power, may travel a great distance in the sky.


What follows is the description of a much larger, more complex vimana (Note: this is the only place the word "vimana" is actually used in the text), which is powered by four mercury-engines.


An extremely swift and nimble vimana can be built, as large as the temple of the God-in-motion. Into the interior structure four strong mercury containers must be installed. When these have been heated by a controlled fire from iron containers, the flying machine develops thunder-power through the mercury, becoming a machine much to be desired. Moreover, if this iron engine with properly welded joints be filled with fluid (mercury?), when ascending or descending over land it develops power with the roar of a lion.


The machine's construction and operating details are not publicly disclosed. For if their motivative power became known expressly to others--giving out results described elsewhere--elements of these machines would be wrongly used.


My apologies to Sanskrit experts for any deficiencies in the rendering of Bhoja's text. The script is difficult, and some words are used which are now defunct. I have been as faithful to the original text as my ability allows. When I learn of errors, I will be prompt in inserting the necessary corrections. There are fairly long passages (represented by . . .) with which we are still struggling. (R.C.L.)

                                           (http://www.atlantisquest.com/sport.jpg)
        Drawing of a small, delta-winged, Solar-Mercury powered "vimana" reportedly based on a medieval original.

                                         


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 08:37:26 pm




Ancient Blueprint of Airship


From J. S. Churchward's "The Children of Mu"
Ives Washburn, New York, 1931
* * * * *

These are the most detailed accounts I have found about the airships of the Hindus 15,000 to 20,000 years ago, except one which is a drawing and instructions for the construction of the airship and her machinery, power, engine, etc. The power is taken from the atmosphere in a very simple inexpensive manner. The engine is somewhat like our present-day turbine in that it works from one chamber into another until finally exhausted. When the engine is once started it never stops until turned off. It will continue on if allowed to do so until the bearings are worn out. These ships could keep circling around the earth without ever coming down until the machinery wore out. The power is unlimited, or rather limited only by what metals will stand. I find various flights spoken of which according to our maps would run from 1000 to 3000 miles. (NOTE: Italics are Churchward's)

COMMENT

Col. J. S. Churchward was assigned to India in 1868, where he spent twelve years assisting in famine relief. He became good friends with a Rishi in a Temple School Monastery where he was able to familiarize himself with the history, religion and customs of ancient India. He was enthusiastic and undoubtedly sincere in his efforts, but was often lead astray by con men and charlatans in the field of archeology. However, since the above description is in conformity to what numerous other people have found in India, he is most likely describing something he actually saw. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of this report.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 08:39:33 pm
Hi Bianca
I've seen that picture too!  I had some really good ones, but obviously not on this computer.

Like this:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/shakuna_Vimana.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/sundar_vimana_vertical.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 08:41:52 pm



Q:

I tried to keep up with you, but you went too fast.  I'm glad you didn't log off before you saw
this.  Am I on the right track?

B


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 08:44:48 pm
Yes Bianca, most definitely.

Sorry, I forgot to thank you for helping with out with this.  I meant to give you some addresses and totally got wrapped up in doctoring the severe burn my husband incurred on his hand.  You're doing great.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 08:47:19 pm
Hi Julia
I did not mean to say that the Richat Structure was from a World War.  I was thinking that the circular rings that Nikas had posted had been discussed in Sarmast's forum as possibly being a target for practice in WWII. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 19, 2007, 09:22:27 pm
Thank you Qoais: this think is exact replica of the Richat structure.
Compare:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/shakuna_Vimana.jpg

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/Archive/Mar2002/richat.500m.jpg

And I found this History:
Eye on the Eye

 

Satellite photo courtesy of USGS EROS Datat Center, Satellite Systems Branch 
 
 
The Richat structure lies in western Mauritania, surrounded by the vast Sahara. It includes a 650-foot-high plateau surrounded by concentric ridges and valleys, which together make up a dome structure some twenty-five miles across, perhaps best seen from the air. In fact, Gemini astronauts in the 1960s were the first to get a bird’s-eye view of the structure, and ever since it has served as a landmark for space crews. They, among others, refer to it as the "eye of Africa."
     Geologists have puzzled over the origins of the “eye” because of the plateau’s unusual composition—it’s an extraordinarily large (two miles wide by 130 feet thick) chunk of breccia, a kind of rock made up of smaller rocks cemented together. Was the Richat structure formed by the impact of a meteor? Or by shifting bedrock? Geologists Guillaume Matton and Michel Jébrak of the University of Quebec in Montreal, and James K.W. Lee of Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, recently proposed a solution to the Richat enigma.
     After extensive geophysical and mineralogical analysis, the geologists concluded that the 100-million-year-old structure has, for starters, volcanic origins. They think it formed when a magma-filled chamber developed deep underground, causing the earth’s crust above it to bulge and fill with hot fluid. The fluid dissolved limestone in the crust, leaving caves behind and causing overhead rock to collapse. The entire mess eventually hardened into the central breccia formation. Erosion subsequently carved out the concentric ridges and valleys.
     One feature of the Richat continues to stump the geologists: typically volcanoes occur in groups. The Richat, however, stands alone. (Geology 33:665–668, 2005)

 http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1105/1105_samplings.html
 SO, how do we know this is natural?? Nobody dag Inside??Just from the stones outside They decideThis is natural>.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 19, 2007, 09:26:16 pm
And besides, It is Known In mauritania and Ghana some people came from Asia.to there..in their history.did they made a replica?? I dont know..but this thing needs further investigation..Thgis could be the Atlantis `city while the Spain could be the tail of the Atlantis..I dint think georgeos found there any circular city or anything..he doesnt even shows in his pages..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 09:29:04 pm

Q.


This is something I found while pursuing the Vimanas:



FIRE CIRCLES



A Revised Translation of the Tulli Papyrus
By R. Cedric Leonard

 
It was only a few years ago that, while browsing through an out-of-state library, I came across a transcription of the famous Tulli Papyrus--the Egyptian text recording an event which occurred during the reign of Thutmose III of the 18th dynasty (circa. 1480 B.C.)--which has been featured in countless TV documentaries and UFO publications. I've seen the English translation of this document numerous times, but until that day in the library, I had never seen a copy of the Egyptian text itself.

 (http://www.atlantisquest.com/text.gif)

I immediately requested permission from the librarian to make a zerox copy, which was granted. My hope at the time was that I might identify the Egyptian glyphs which had been translated "Fire Circles". However, once I had the opportunity to look at the transcription thoroughly, I realized that I could easily recognize most of the Egyptian writing. So I got out my Egyptian grammar book by E. A. Wallis Budge, and sat down with it to seriously translate this fragment of Egyptian writing known as the Tulli Papyrus.

 
A transcription is a hand-written copy of the original made by the translator from which the rough translation is to be made. Typically this is the first step taken before the labor of translation begins. Existing lacunae are duly noted, along with any other problems. Such a step saves wear and tear on the often fragile original manuscript. To the right is a transcription of the original hieroglyphic text of the Tulli Papyrus.




Some inscriptions are on rock faces in places which would make it extremely uncomfortable to attempt a translation without this vital step. In some cases rubbings can be made, but in others transcription must be made because of the size of the original, its location, or other difficulties.


This is supposedly the origin of the transcription that I had before me. My next step was to re-copy the glyphs, spacing them to allow for the insertion of the English equivalents underneath (heiroglyphics are often "stacked," while English flows "horizontally"). My effort resulted in what might be termed an Interlinear Translation.


Displayed here is my own spaced transcription with the English equivalents below each group of glyphs. The customary numbers, inserted because of differences in word order between the two languages, will not be used here. Further below is the "smoothed out" English text which makes for a more readable version.

(http://www.atlantisquest.com/glyph(1).gif)

  The glyphs translated "Circle of Fire" are aa-xet in Egyptian. I'm not doing an in-depth analysis of the Egyptian text at this point, but I think it is interesting that the glyph which has traditionally been translated "circle" is the normal glyph for "island" (Budge, 1966). In such instances a determinative for water is usually included. Two such examples can be found in Chaps. XXIV and LXXXVI of The Book of the Dead (Egyptian text; Budge, 1960).


But these particular islands are consistantly located by the text "in the sky"--which precludes any idea of these being ordinary islands! In any case, a solid disk seems to be indicated, as opposed to a mere "circle" with nothing in the center. This being the case, I believe the rendering "disk" to be the more accurate. Moreover, the Egyptian "fire" determinative is telling us that these are indeed Fiery Disks; therefore I have decided to revise my previous translation.


Although the manuscript was damaged and contained several lacunae, a certain Prince Boris de Rachewiltz managed to translate it and declared the papyrus to be "part of the Annals of Thutmose III". The following is my "free translation" of the Tulli Papyrus. It may differ slightly from Rachewiltz's translation (which can be found on the internet, as well as in numerous books).


*************************************************************************************

In the year 22, of the third month of winter, sixth hour of the day [...] among the scribes of the House of Life it was found that a strange Fiery Disk was coming in the sky. It had no head. The breath of its mouth emitted a foul odor. Its body was one rod in length and one rod in width. It had no voice. It came toward His Majesty's house. Their heart became confused through it, and they fell upon their bellies. They [went] to the king, to report it. His Majesty [ordered that] the scrolls [located] in the House of Life be consulted. His Majesty meditated on all these events which were now going on.


After several days had passed, they became more numerous in the sky than ever. They shined in the sky more than the brightness of the sun, and extended to the limits of the four supports of heaven [...] Powerful was the position of the Fiery Disks.


The army of the King looked on, with His Majesty in their midst. It was after the evening meal when the Disks ascended even higher in the sky to the south. Fish and other volatiles rained down from the sky: a marvel never before known since the foundation of the country. And His Majesty caused incense to be brought to make peace on the hearth of the gods. And it was [ordered] to be [recorded for] His Majesty in the annals of the House of Life [to be remembered] for ever."

**************************************************************************************


According to Samuel Rosenberg ("UFOs in History"), the Tulli Papyrus was found among the papers of the late Professor Alberto Tulli, former director of the Vatican Egyptian Museum, which involves this startling event recorded during the reign of Thutmose III, as cited by Le Poer Trench (1966.)


An inquiry was sent to Dr. Walter Ramberg, Scientific Attache at the U.S. embassy in Rome, in an attempt to verify the existence of the original manuscript. He replied:


". . . the current director of the Egyptian Section of the Vatican Museum, Dr. Nolli, said that Prof. Tulli had left all his belongings to a brother of his who was a priest in the Lateran Palace. Presumably the famous papyrus went to this priest. Unfortunately the priest died also in the meantime and his belongings were dispersed among heirs, who may have disposed of the papyrus as something of little value."


The original is therefore lost, at present. Its translator, Prince Boris de Rachewiltz, remains the only authority upon whose word alone we must trust as an accurate report of its contents. The Tulli text exhibits numerous parallels to other documents of the Thutmoses III era, which would be extremely difficult to fake. It's difficult to believe a nobleman such as Prince Rachewiltz would be a deliberate perpetrator of a hoax, especially since a handwritten hieroglyphic transcript of the original papyrus survives.


In favor of its authenticity is the use of un dn, an Egyptian particle (usually left untranslated in English). Hoaxers would not be inclined to use such peculiarities when "making up" a phony text. To illustrate, certain Jewish authors of the New Testament (e.g., II Peter), not knowing Greek as their "first language," sometimes failed to include common Greek particles (in other words, they were not althogether familiar with the use of such niceties, and so did not make use of them).



BIBLIOGRAPHY

Budge, E. A. Wallace, "Book of the Dead," University Books, Inc., New York, 1960.
Budge, E. A. Wallace, "Egyptian Language," Routledge & Kegan Ltd., London, 1966.
Trench, Pierre Le Poer, "The Flying Saucer Story," Spearman, London, 1966.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 19, 2007, 09:44:14 pm





THE WHEELS OF EZEKIEL



A possible relationship
to modern UFO phenomena

An analytical essay
by R. Cedric Leonard

                                                 (http://www.atlantisquest.com/wheel.jpeg)

Have you ever wondered how a primitive tribesman from the plains of east Africa might describe the landing of a high-tech military helicopter? How would this confused, frightened villager relate his experience to his peers? Familiar native words would have to be used to describe things beyond the ken of ordinary experience, and his attempt to describe such an experience may turn out to be quite unintelligible to his friends.


Now consider the possibility that something similar happened to Ezekiel somewhere around 600 B.C., as recorded in the Bible. The case I am about to unfold to you is truly worthy of attention.


Biblical scholars have long felt that Ezekiel's account of the fiery wheels encountered by the River Chebar 1 is one of the most difficult to translate in the entire Bible. Not only does the text abound in obscurities and apparent confusion, but also it has acquired occasional corruptions by well-meaning scribes whose "amendations" have only muddied the issue even further. (NBC; NLBC) It shouldn't be surprising that Ezekiel believed the encounter to be a "vision". Certainly nothing in normal experience could be compared to the occurrence he describes:


And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. (Ezek. 1:4)


The above is Ezekiel's first sight of the strange aerial phenomenon which was approaching him from the north. What follows in the next ten verses no biblical scholar has ever been able to unravel. The text, as well as its translation, exhibits a high degree of confusion. We will take up the reason for this in the latter part of the essay. But for now, let's analyze his description of this event by taking a close look at his choice of words.


The first descriptive word we come to in the above account is se'ahra, translated "whirlwind" in the King James translation of the Bible. Since I'm not expert in the Hebrew language, I consulted several Hebrew scholars to see if the Hebrew words held meanings not apparent in the English translations. My suspicions were rewarded beyond my expectations. I also consulted the Greek LXX rendition (I am more familiar with ancient Greek), which yielded a few insights.

The word se'ahra is rare, and denotes a very peculiar, or unusual, type of storm. This is the same word that is used when God spoke to Job "out of the whirlwind" (Job 38:1). He then mentions "a great cloud". The word 'anan can mean an ordinary cloud, but 'anan is used more often in the Bible to refer to the shining "presence" of deity (an "aureole," or "nimbus"). Moreover, his next words make his meaning clear: the cloud is surrounded by "a fire infolding itself". Here another rare Hebrew word is used: mitheleqachath which means "flashing itself". This sounds almost like strobe lights. The Greek text (LXX) uses exastrapton, meaning "scintillating" or "flashing out". Some scholars prefer "sheen" or "overall glow," which seems rather tame: even the conservative King James has the alternative reading in the margin of "catching itself". (The image of a dog chasing its tail comes to mind.) This is not the Hebrew word for natural lightning (baroq, used in verse 13), and this is no ordinary cloud. This thing looks alive, and terrifying.


The next three words are truly amazing! Hebrew scholars agree that venogah lo savev means something like "touching itself around" (savev: "in a circle"). This seems to reinforce the image of flashing lights spinning in a circle. (The Greek LXX uses the term kuklo from whence we get "circle" and "cycle".) Now it's beginning to sound like a modern UFO encounter! Such colorful language is seldom encountered in the Old Testament, and can only mean that Ezekiel was profoundly impressed by the splendor of the sight. Also that he was stretching the Hebrew vocabulary itself, so that nothing of his startling experience would be lost. Now it really gets interesting.


As this "vision" gets nearer and nearer Ezekiel is able to discern more details; for finally he describes the appearance of "gleaming metal" inside the flashing, spinning cloud mass. The usual translation is "the color of amber," but chashmal is better translated as "gleaming bronze," or better yet "electrum". Electrum is a natural alloy of gold and silver, having a high reflectivity factor and truly beautiful to behold. So, giving a more accurate translation, we have:

 

And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a glowing cloud, and brilliant fire flashing itself in a circle; and in the midst thereof, an appearance of polished metal (or, gleaming electrum), in the midst of the fire.


Try to imagine how Ezekiel must have felt, watching the mirror-like reflections of the whirling lights dancing in the gleaming electrum-like surfaces of this fabulous machine. In verse 13 the "whirling lamps" image is reinforced once more. The King James version puts it in these words:


As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures. (Ezek 1:13)


Instead of "lamps" which were "going up and down," the actual Hebrew text uses a word meaning "circling continuously" (mithehalaqat, closely akin to mitheleqachat). The Greek LXX text has lampadon sustrephomenon ("circling lamps," or "whirling lamps"). It is unfortunate that the King James translators missed so many facets of this relatively accurate description. The appearance of gleaming metal and "chasing lamps" within this glowing, luminous whirlwind certainly puts a different light on the event. We will take up the "living creatures" and the confusion surrounding them shortly, but let us now touch on some rather trivial details mentioned by Ezekiel in his attempt to describe these machines.


We now encounter mechanical nomenclature, such as rings, rims, strakes, spokes and "eyes" (which could well be port holes). Unfortunately, the text is hopelessly corrupt at this point and the details are quite obscure (this is why there are numerous "alternative readings" given in the margin of the King James translation). The words "lofty" and "awesome" are used. However, as the quality of the text improves, Ezekiel does explain that there are four identical machines, and that each one is constructed like "a wheel in the middle of a wheel" (verse 16). Here we are definitely talking about a machine: Ezekiel uses the Hebrew word for "construction". Even though scholars in the Hebrew language have historically had difficulty in visualizing the details, they have not hesitated to declare that "we are dealing here with a supernatural machine" (ABC). One scholar asserts that the apparatus described is "a supernatural chariot," even though the word "chariot" is never used by Ezekiel (NBC).


Ezekiel clearly indicates that these vehicles land, take off, hover, and even fly in formation as they zip to and fro in all directions. They are able to do so without needing to bank and turn as do airplanes or birds (verses 14, 17). As they flash through the sky they are--like the mighty flying machines (vimanas) of the Hindu epics--accompanied by a thunderous roar. Finally, as they land on earth they "let down their wings"--a curious statement from our UFO oriented standpoint, unless we realize that these "wings" could conceivably be metal stairways as seen from the side. Such "gangplanks" might be lowered smoothly until they touched the ground, giving him the impression that the cherubim had "let down their wings".


It would seem natural that after these vehicles had landed and the glowing cloud of plasma had dissipated and the fiery exhausts and rotating lights had ceased, that Ezekiel could better evaluate the physical appearance of the craft.


The climax of this event is when Ezekiel sees the "appearance of a throne" above the machine, and one sitting upon it having the "appearance of a man". Notice the repetition of the word "appearance". Did he perceive this to be an artificial image? Was this a projection of the ship's commander? I believe it more than significant that when Ezekiel fell on his face in awe of this being (verse 28), he was sharply commanded to stand up (Ezek. 2:1). If this was a vision of God himself, why wouldn't Ezekiel be permitted to worship? The same thing happens each and every time Ezekiel prostrates himself. Once on his feet, he was given a message to be delivered to his fellow captives in Babylon. Then a startling thing happens:


Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, as the glory of the Lord rose from its place . . . So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the Lord was heavy upon me. (Ezek. 3:12,14)


Apparently as he was taken up, simultaneously the whole dazzling affair, whirling lights and all, rose majestically into the sky! The book of Ezekiel records a total of seven such occurrences within its pages.


As he was being carried aloft, he heard a thunderous roar (which he imagined was caused by the clapping of mighty wings). The King James version uses the mild term "rushing," but my Rabbinical consultants assure me that the Hebrew words imply a thunderous roar, such as an earthquake or a tremendous waterfall. The "spirit" (ruach) mentioned here is the same powerful force which had lifted the prophet Elijah into heaven during the chariot of fire incident recorded in II Kings (2:11).


I italicized a particular phrase in the above passage purposely. It differs so drastically from the same passage as translated in the King James version, I wanted to draw special attention to it. Here are the two compared:

King James: Blessed be the glory of the Lord from his place.
Restored to: As the glory of the Lord rose from its place.

The astonishing thing is that in Hebrew the difference in the above passage is only one letter! Since the original Hebrew text had no vowels, a scribal error was made at some point which substituted a Hebrew letter K for an original M, making the text to read baruk (blessed) instead of berum (as arose). Most biblical scholars believe this to have happened (with good reason) and have restored the original meaning to the text (PCB). A very similar phrase is used later (Ezek. 11:23), which was helpful to scholars in spotting this error (TIB). Before this was corrected, the meaning was so incoherent that the King James translators had to insert the English word "saying" to make any sense of it.


After the aerial hop in the dazzling spaceship, Ezekiel was so shaken that he sat speechless for seven days (Ezek. 3:15). He was warned, finally, that if he did not deliver the message he had received, the blood of his fellows would be on his hands. That got him up and going.


Incredibly, some scholars believe Ezekiel was not on board when the craft lifted off. In fact, Prof. Davidson (NBC) portrays Ezekiel as being bitter because he was left behind! But this view must be erroneous for several reasons: (1) the text says explicitly that "the spirit lifted me up and took me away"; (2) the Greek text (LXX) of the next verse says, "Then I passed through the air and came to the captivity"; (3) on numerous other occasions it states clearly that Ezekiel was shuttled from place to place (seven times in all) while inside the vision. The anger Ezekiel felt was not disappointment at being left behind, but because the hand of the Lord "was heavy" upon him as the craft soared into the air. He may have been pinned to the floor! His second encounter occurred not far from the first:


Then I arose, and went forth unto the plain: and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, as the glory which I saw by the river Chebar: and I fell on my face. (Ezek. 3:23)


Once again he is brought to his feet (no worship here) and another message given him. During these encounters he is always addressed as "son of man," which is the equivalent of "human" or "earthling". The phrase "the glory of the Lord stood there" indicates that he could see it while he was yet far off, and remained there as he approached. Does this sound like a vision?


Then the prophet was taken to Jerusalem aboard the craft. This time the text states explicitly that "the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem." (Ezek. 8:3) It couldn't be any clearer. Moreover, since he was a captive in Babylonia, he could not have traveled to Jerusalem on his own (a trip of several months by caravan).


Eventually, all four craft returned. By now Ezekiel is referring to them as cherubs (to be discussed shortly). Someone within hearing distance must have seen the craft also, because Ezekiel records hearing someone cry out, O galgal, i.e., "spinning thing", or wheel. (Ezek. 10:13) This is equivalent to yelling "flying saucer!" upon seeing a modern UFO. Later, another lift-off is described, this time in downtown Jerusalem:


Then did the cherubims lift up their wings, and the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city. (Ezek. 11:22-23)


Notice the italics. This is the statement which helped scholars identify the troublesome scribal error that had occurred in the text referred to earlier.


Afterwards the spirit took me up, and brought me in a vision by the spirit of God into Chaldea, to them of the captivity. So the vision that I had seen went up from me. Then I spake unto them of the captivity all the things that the Lord had shewed me. (Ezek. 11:24-25)


Once again, he makes it clear that he is inside the "visions" as he travels from place to place. After debarking, he apparently watched it fly away into the sky. He is taken up several more times, but the following example happens to mention that the presence of the craft lights up the surrounding terrain as it moves along:


. . . And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. (Ezek. 43:2)


Once more he falls on his face, and again he is taken up and brought to the inner court of the temple at Jerusalem, whereupon the "glory of the Lord filled the house." (Ezek. 43:5)


During my consultation with local Rabbis concerning Ezekiel's visions, one of them said: "Do you know that the first chapter of Ezekiel has traditionally been read in the synagogues once a year on the day of Pentecost?" Intrigued, I asked why. It was explained that this is the day the Feast of Weeks is celebrated . . . the day Moses received the Law on Mt. Sinai. I didn't make the connection, so the Rabbi explained: "The Feast of Weeks has also been declared the Festival of Revelation, and both men received a divine revelation." I pressed the Rabbi: "But why the first chapter of Ezekiel in particular?" His answer surprised me.


He told me that there is a connection between the "divine chariot" in Ezekiel's vision and the "pillar of fire" which escorted, and protected, the children of Israel during the exodus from Egypt. I protested that Ezekiel never once used the term "chariot" in his account. He in turn asked me, "What did Elisha exclaim when he saw Elijah being taken up into the chariot of fire?" The answer was, of course: "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel". The Rabbi continued: "This chariot, the chariot of Israel, was present during the exodus from Egypt, during the giving of the Law, during the forty years in the wilderness, and also during the conquest of Canaan." He added: "It is believed that Ezekiel saw this same chariot."


Upon consulting numerous Bible commentaries I found that most refer to Ezekiel's vision as a chariot (ABC, HBC, NBC, OAB, PCB, TIB). In view of these discussions I see only two possibilities. Either Ezekiel encountered mechanized aircraft and their occupants, or he received visions of mechanized aircraft and their occupants. So why did he use the term "cherubim" in reference to these events? I have deliberately put this off until last since it has consistently thrown both scholar and layman into a state of confusion.


I believe the answer to be extremely simple. All four vehicles bore ensignias on them which denoted their universal or "star ship" status. The four faces of the "cherubim" are simply the four "signs" at the cardinal points of the heavens: Leo (the Lion), Taurus (the bull), Aquarius (the man), and Scorpio (which the Chaldeans often represented as an eagle). If one finds a circle depicting the twelve signs of the zodiac, uses a perfect cross with four arms, then rotates it until one of the arms is pointing at one of the four named signs (Aquarius for instance), the three remaining arms will point to the other three (Leo, Taurus, and Scorpio). This is a sensible way of representing this region of the universe. It now appears that we have properly identified the mysterious four faces of the so-called "living creatures". The question remains, Why did Ezekiel refer to these zodiacal faces as "cherubim"?


The word "cherub" (cherubim is plural) has no etymology in the Hebrew language. Both the word and the concept is Akkadian (Babylonian).2 (Dhorme, 1945) Cherubs were early mythological creatures believed by the Babylonians to possess awesome and terrifying power (in the same class with griffins and sphinxes). The winged bull is often depicted with the head of a man and the tail of a lion. The similar sphinx is usually (but not always) depicted with a human head, sometimes with an eagle's wings, and a lion's body. Cherubs were usually placed at the entrances of temples or other sacred places to protect those holy precincts. It should be remembered that the earliest mention of cherubim in the Bible were those guarding the entrance to the garden of Eden.

 
A line drawing of one of the two cherubim which guarded the entrance to the throne room of Sargon II. The cherub shown is a composite depicting the body and horns of a bull, the head and face of a man, and sporting the wings of an eagle.

Since Ezekiel was in Babylon (Chaldea) and sculpted representations of these four cardinal zodiacal signs could be seen on every hand, it is only natural that Ezekiel would use the very terminology he heard day after day in the environs of Babylon to describe such images.


Some confusion still remains concerning Ezekiel's terminology involving "living creatures". It almost seems that he believed everything in his vision to be alive. However, at times he seems to consider the human-like beings which disembarked from the wheels as alive and in control of their associated machines. The machines themselves exhibited many characteristics which, to one unfamiliar with electricity, might have made them appear to be alive. I am sure Ezekiel himself was confused on this score. Also one should remember that in ancient times anything that could move on its own was considered alive. Witness the old familiar "living water". If water flowed, it was "living water". This, I believe, is the answer. Ezekiel himself was confused.


To return once more to the chariot concept. Just what is a chariot? According to Funk & Wagnalls, the word is Old French and is an augmented form of char (from Latin, carrus, car, cart, or wagon). As an intransitive verb it means, "to convey, ride, or drive as in a chariot." (SDEL) Our word "carry" derives from the same source. Ezekiel's wheels represent an aerial vehicle, a celestial car, a "divine chariot" if you please, the function of which is transportation! So that's why Rabbis and biblical scholars consider Ezekiel's wheel as a chariot.


I think the UFO hypothesis (and that's all it is) is on reasonable ground. It certainly explains a lot hithertofore unexplainable. I haven't closed my mind to other possibilities: maybe the preachers and theologians are correct. However, the phenomenon in Ezekiel's account did everything one would naturally expect of an aerial vehicle. Fortunately for us, Ezekiel told us everything in chronological order. In this last sense, scholars say the book of Ezekiel is the best organized of any of the prophetic books of the Bible.

REFERENCES
ABC = Abingdon Bible Commentary
Dhorme = Les religions de Babylonie et Assyrie
HBC = Harper's Bible Commentary
NBC = New Bible Commentary by F. Davidson
NLBC = New Laymen's Bible Commentary
OAB = Oxford Annotated Bible
PCB = Peak's Commentary on the Bible
TIB = The Interpreters Bible (twelve volumes) Vol. VI
LXX = The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament
SDEL = Standard Dictionary of the English Language

Due to the fact that most of the references used in this essay do not have a single author, a new system of notes was adopted. More complete information on these publications is given in the bibliography below.

NOTES

1 The "River Chebar" mentioned here by Ezekiel is believed by many scholars to be the nari kabari ("great canal"), an artificial canal near the city of Nippur created by the Chaldeans for irrigation purposes. [Back]
2 Archeological discoveries have brought to light numerous examples of Akkadian style "kerubs" in the Phoenician city of Biblos, and in Samaria as well as Chaldea. Such representations do not consistently have four heads (e.g., Ezek. 41:18f describes them as having only two); but nearly always all four cardinal signs of the zodiac are represented in some way, i.e., in the form of wings, tails, horns, hooves, human heads, etc.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 09:45:10 pm
Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the "Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire" and still un deciphered, has also been found in one other place in the world: Easter Island! Writing on Easter Island, called Rongo-Rongo writing, is also un deciphered, and is uncannily similar to the Mohenjodaro script. Was Easter Island an air base for the Rama Empire's Vimana route? (At the Mohenjo- Daro Vimana-drome, as the passenger walks down the concourse, he hears the sweet, melodic sound of the announcer over the loud speaker," Rama Airways flight number seven for Bali, Easter Island, Nazca, and Atlantis is now ready for boarding. Passengers please proceed to gate number..") in Tibet, no small distance, and speaks of the "fiery chariot" thus: "Bhima flew along in his car, resplendent as the sun and loud as thunder... The flying chariot shone like a flame in the night sky of summer... it swept by like a comet... It was as if two suns were shining. Then the chariot rose up and all the heaven brightened." In the Mahavira of Bhavabhuti, a Jain text of the eighth century culled from older texts and traditions, we read: "An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka, conveysmany people to the capital of Ayodhya.

The sky is full of stupendousflying-machines, dark as night,but picked out by lights with a yellowishglare." The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all theIndian texts, describe Vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the "ahnihotravimana" with two engines, the"elephant-vimana" with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals. Unfortunately, Vimanas, like most scientific discoveries, were ultimately used for war. Atlanteans used their flying machines, "Vailixi," a similar type of aircraft, to literally try and subjugate the world, it would seem, if Indiantexts are to be believed.

The Atlanteans, known as "Asvins" in the Indian writings, were apparently even more advanced technologically than the Indians, and certainly of a more war-like temperament. Although no ancient texts on Atlantean Vailixi are known to exist, some information has come down through esoteric, "occult" sources which describe their flying machines. Similar, if not identical to Vimanas, Vailixi were generally "cigar shaped" and had the capability of manoeuvering underwater as well as in the atmosphere or even outer space. Other vehicles, like Vimanas, were saucer shaped, and could apparently also be submerged.

According to Eklal Kueshana, author of "The Ultimate Frontier," in an article he wrote in 1966:

Vailixi were first developed in Atlantis 20,000 years ago, and the most common ones are "saucer shaped of generally trapezoidal cross- section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside. They use a mechanical antigravity device driven by engines developing approximately 80,000 horse power. The Ramayana, Mahabharata and other texts speak of the hideous war that took place, some ten or twelve thousand years ago between Atlantis and Rama using weapons of destruction that could not be imagined by readers until the second half of this century.

The ancient Mahabharata, one of the sources on Vimanas, goes on to tell the awesome destructiveness of the war: "...(the weapon was) a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendor. An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white.... after a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..."

It would seem that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war! References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 09:45:50 pm
One even describes a Vimana-Vailixbattle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite. When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ancient cities whose brick and stonewalls have literally been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. There is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast.

Further more, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with "black lumps of glass." These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat! With the cataclysmic sinking of Atlantis and the wiping out of Rama with atomic weapons, the world collapsed into a "stone age" of sorts, and modern history picks up a few thousand years later Yet, it would seem that not all the Vimanas and Vailixi of Rama and Atlantis were gone. Built to last for thousands of years, many of them would still be in use, as evidenced by Ashoka's "Nine Unknown Men" and the Lhasa manuscript.

That secret societies or "Brotherhoods" of exceptional, "enlightened" human beings would have preserved these inventions and the knowledge of science, history, etc., does not seem surprising. Many well known historical personages including Jesus, Buddah, Lao Tzu, Confucious, Krishna, Zoroaster, Mahavira, Quetzalcoatl, Akhenaton, Moses, and more recent inventors and of course many other people who will probably remain anonymous, were probably members of such a secret organization. It is interesting to note that when Alexander the Great invaded India more than two thousand years ago, his historians chronicled that at one point they were attacked by "flying, fiery shields" that dove at his army and frightened the cavalry. These "flying saucers" did not use any atomic bombs or beam weapons on Alexander's army however, perhaps out of benevolence, and Alexander went on to conquer India. It has been suggested by many writers that these "Brotherhoods" keep some of their Vimanas and Vailixi in secret caverns in Tibet or some other place is Central Asia, and the Lop Nor Desert in western China is known to be the center of a great UFO mystery. Perhaps it is here that many of the airships are still kept, in underground bases much as the Americans, British and Soviets have built around the world in the past few decades. Still, not all UFO activity can be accounted for by old Vimanas making trips to the Moon for some reason. Unknown alloys have been revealed in the ancient palm leaf manuscripts.

The writer and Sanskrit scholar Subramanyam Iyer has spent many years of his life deciphering old collections of palm leaves found in the villages of his native Karnataka in southern India. One of the palm leaf manuscripts they intend to decipher is the Amsu Bodhini, which, according to an anonymous text of 1931, contains information about the planets; the different kinds of light, heat, color, and electromagnetic fields; the methods used to construct machines capable of attracting solar rays and, in turn, of analysing and separating their energy components; the possibility of conversing with people in remote places and sending messages by cable; and the manufacture of machines to transport people to other planets!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 19, 2007, 09:51:03 pm
Yes Bianca: may be The same people who built this thing They made alot of replicas in yemen, egypt, in tarsus, tartessos ..I dont know where else.Or there is may be one original and The others are Human made.as replica..I think this structure in Africa really should be investigated..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 10:02:39 pm
Hi Julia
I had read about those scientists, and then 3D had posted that the Richat Structure had been possibly formed when under water.  I was hoping he had something to verify this.

If "Atlantis" was the name of a space ship, and they set it down and built a civilization around it, and if it isn't the one Thoth few east in, the perhaps it's one of the ones that fell in the ocean, and even tho the metal is nothing like what we have on earth that we know of, it could be that the salt water eroded it eventually, but also that the silt built up around it while it was eroding.  Who knows?  It would be nice to take samples of the Richat Structure from above and below, and to see if there are any more with this type of ring structure.  I've looked at other salt domes but they don't seem to look like this.  The smaller one just west of Richat is similar, but not quite the same.  Maybe it was an "eject pod"!!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 19, 2007, 10:08:35 pm
In one episode, for example, the Vrishnis, a tribe whose warriors include the hero Krishna, are beset by the forces of a leader named Salva.

"The cruel Salva had come mounted on the Saubha chariot that can go anywhere, and from it he killed many valiant Vrishni youths and evilly devastated all city parks."

The Saubha is at once Salva's city, flagship, and battle headquarters. In it, he can fly wherever he chooses. Fortunately, the Vrishni heroes are similarly well equipped, and at one point have Salva at their mercy. The hero Pradyumna is about to finish him off with a special weapon, when the highest gods stop him "Not a man in battle is safe from this arrow," they say, and declare that Salva will fall to Krishna.

Krishna took to the sky in pursuit of Salva, but his Saubha clung to the sky at a leagues length... He threw at me rockets, missiles, spears, spikes, battleaxes, three-bladed javelins, flame-throwers, without pausing... The sky... seemed to hold a hundred suns, a hundred moons... and a hundred myriad stars. Neither day nor night could be made out, or the points of a compass.

Krishna, however, wards off Salva's attack with what sounds like antiballistic missiles; I warded them off as they loomed towards me
With my swift-striking shafts, as they flashed through the sky, And I cut them into two or three pieces with mine --
There was a great din in the sky above.

However, the Saubha becomes invisible. Krishna then loads a special weapon, perhaps an ancient version of a smart bomb? I quickly laid on an arrow, which killed by seeking out sound, to kill them... All the Danavas [Salva's troops] who had been screeching lay dead, killed by the blazing sun like arrows that were triggered by sound.

However, the Sauba itself escaped the attack. Krishna fires his "favorite fire weapon" at it, a discus shaped like the "haloed sun". The discus breaks the Saubha in two, and the city falls from the sky, killing Salva. This is the end of the Mahabharata.

One of the most intriguing thing about it is that the use of Pradyumna's special arrow, from which "not a man in battle is safe", was outlawed by the gods. What sort of weapon could this be? Another chapter, describing the use of the Agneya weapon by the hero Adwattan. When the weapon, a "blazing missile of smokeless fire" is unleashed;

Dense arrows of flame, like a great shower, issued forth upon creation, encompassing the enemy... A thick gloom swiftly settled upon the Pandava hosts. All points of the compass were lost in darkness. Fierce winds began to blow. Clouds roared upward, showering dust and gravel.
Birds coaked madly... the very elements seemed disturbed. The sun seemed to waver in the heavens. The earth shook, scorched by the terrible violent heat of this weapon. Elephants burst into flame and ran to and fro in a frenzy... over a vast area, other animals crumpled to the ground and died. From all points of the compass the arrows of flame rained continuously and fiercely.

And if that sounded like a firestorm, then a similar weapon fired by Gurkha sounds like nothing less than a nuclear blast complete with radioactive fallout;

Gurkha, flying in his swift and powerful Vimana, hurled against the three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousand suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of Vrishnis and Andhakas.

The corpses were so burnt they were no longer recognizable. Hair and nails fell out. Pottery broke without cause... Foodstuffs were poisoned. To escape, the warriors threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment.

Plan of Pitha (Base)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/sundara_vimana_pitha2.jpg)



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 20, 2007, 01:46:49 am
The Richat Structure is located in the center of Mauritania, the western end of the Sahara desert. It looks like an eye when seen from space and was first observed from space by Gemini 4 astronauts McDivitt and White in June 1965.

Most of the image looks yellowish, indicating sand desert. The dark brown part is bare sedimentary rocks, and within that you can see the Richat Structure, a gigantic ring structure of some 40 km in diameter. It is as large as Uchiura Bay in Hokkaido, Japan.

The part of the sedimentary rock corresponding to the white of the eye is a plateau standing some 200 m above the sand desert. The Richat Structure corresponding to the iris of the eye lies in a depression, and the peak of the outer rim is 485 m above sea level. The Richat Structure consists of Early Paleozoic rocks, some 600 million years old. Around the center, rocks resistant to weathering and erosion (purple and blue-green part) make 100 m high ridges, and nonresistant rocks (yellow and brown part) form valleys. These features alternate and are concentric.

The Richat Structure was previously thought to have been formed by metorite impact or volcanic activity, but field surveys have demonstrated that neither are correct. The current thinking is that these features were formed by an uplift and subsequent erosion from wind and water. However, why the structure is circular remains a mystery.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 20, 2007, 04:52:11 pm
Homeric Map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Homer_world_map-en.svg/280px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png
clearly shows there is an island Under spain.(Actually He didnt show spain or italy, he just showed greece and that island..That means In Homers toime too that island was known..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 20, 2007, 04:55:14 pm
Later, It connected to Africa ..And in the south pole of that Island It was Atlantis.(http://)http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Homer_world_map-en.svg/280px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 20, 2007, 08:12:01 pm
Hi Julia
You must remember that I've just been putting this theory together from everything I've read and studied, and have no scientific basis to actually come right out and claim the Richat Structure as Atlantis.  I was proposing that it COULD be so if the world looked a little different at the time of Atlantis, which may be the case, if we move Atlantis back in time. 
I would need to do a lot of research in a number of areas to confirm some of the conjectures I've made. 

I came to the conclusion that Lake Tritonis had to be huge - so huge in fact that it was part of the ocean, and had another opening to the area where the Med is now, on the western end.  I did find some geologic maps that showed the earth did look like that, but the dates may not coincide. 

I realize the Richat Structure is larger than what the numbers are that everyone is arguing over, but whose to say if Atlantis was added to how big it got?  Plato actually did say that all the generations added to it. 

The last post I made is the most recent I can find on any study into the Richat Structure and it does not agree that it is made from vulcanic activity, but that too, does not mean it was man-made. 

I think that what ground I have covered, is quite logical, and it would be fun to have a ton of money and go there and do an excavation.  But until such time, I still can not categorically come out  and state "This is Atlantis".

It would take me days to back-track on my own trail, to even write a coherent article on what I was thinking and why I followed certain paths.  Mostly, I'm motivated by logic, and if something doesn't seem logical, I look at it to see why not.  It was logical to me, that the Amazons had to be close neighbors to the Atlanteans, since they attacked them first.  The description of the land of the Amazons, was the same as for Atlantis.  It seemed to me then, that this huge island Plato was referring to, likely had more than just Atlanteans on it.  Herodotus talks about neighboring tribes only being 10 days travel away from each other.  We know there were other people living in the vicinity because Cleito was born there.   The original Amazon city sunk, same as Atlantis.  Then I started thinking about the plain which was protected by the mountains on the north, and started studying the mountains, and plains and land features of Libya.  Like I said, I just kept putting pieces together and if it was logical to me that they fit, I carried on.  Then I remembered seeing the pictures of the Richat Structure, but I wasn't positive where it was so I put up a message asking for the picture as I knew someone in this forum had posted it.  I had thought it was so beautiful at the time, but couldn't remember where it was.  I have since, tried to find out whatever there is to know about it.  I had e-mailed a very large oil company to ask them if they would explain the anomalies regarding the structure, since they are familiar with salt domes - being as how there's usually gas and oil in the vacinity - but they haven't e-mailed me back yet.

I had thought that if Atlantis was near the shore, then the shore had to be somewhere else.  When the seismic upheavals started, and the "lake" started drying up, it's possible that the "canals" were dug deeper to access the ground water.  If the original rivers had been re-directed with this seismic activity, then the Atlanteans knew their days were numbered in that area.  I'm sure it didn't happen over night, but according to the only other source we have - Edgar Cayce - he says the land broke up 3 times.  This would (altho very far back in time if one wanted to speculate) co-incide with the three times the Atlas mountains heaved.  The Atlas mountains were not made in one thrust, but three.  Even if we don't go back THAT far, since the mountains seem to have been there already, since supposedly they're named after Atlas, there was still obviously a lot of seismic activity going on in the area.

There are numerous little bits and pieces that I held in my head, and have just been trying to make a bigger picture.  Not just about Atlantis, but about the world and it's advances from mega ancient times. 

Robsang Lampa mentioned that Atlantis is now buried under Tibet - so if that's true - then we are reallly talking a long way back and Plato is maybe relating the truth, but only as he perceives it from his day and age, not knowing how the earth was shaped thousands of years before his time.



 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 20, 2007, 08:26:00 pm
Hi dear Qoais: I read Dr.Kuhne s article here: http://www.mysteria3000.de/wp/?p=239
he compares The island Sheria and Its capitol Phaecia of Homers Odyssey With the Atlantis..
Isnt Phaecia todays "fez" of Morocco??
if morocco like you thought was aBig island and the city of ATlantis was In the south edge??That make sense isnt it..it must be a huge island though..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 21, 2007, 02:00:08 am
 The Phaiakian ships
The Phaiakians possessed remarkable ships. They were quite different from the Ancient galleys, the ships used during the Trojan War and they were steered by thought. King Alkinoös says that Phaiakians carried Rhadamanthus to Euboea, "which is the furthest of any place" and came back on the same day[4]. He also explains to Odysseus what sort of information the Phaiakian ships require in order to take him home to Ithaca.

Tell me also your country, nation, and city, that our ships may shape their purpose accordingly and take you there. For the Phaiakians have no pilots; their vessels have no rudders as those of other nations have, but the ships themselves understand what it is that we are thinking about and want; they know all the cities and countries in the whole world, and can traverse the sea just as well even when it is covered with mist and cloud, so that there is no danger of being wrecked or coming to any harm.[5]

Homer describes the Phaiakian ships as fast as a falcon and gives a vivid description of the ship's departure.

The ship bounded forward on her way as a four in hand chariot flies over the course when the horses feel the whip. Her prow curvetted as it were the neck of a stallion, and a great wave of dark blue water seethed in her wake. She held steadily on her course, and even a falcon, swiftest of all birds, could not have kept pace with her.[6]


[edit] Geographical location of Scheria
Main article: Geography of the Odyssey
Many ancient and modern interpreters favour identification of Scheria with the island of Corfu, which is within 80 miles of Ithaca. Locals on Corfu had long claimed this, based on the rock outside Corfu harbour, which is supposedly the ship that carried Odysseus back to Ithaca, but was turned to stone by Poseidon, to punish the Phaiakians for helping his enemy:

with one blow from the flat of his hand turned her [the ship] into stone and rooted her to the sea bottom[7]

The Phaiakians did not participate in the Trojan War. The Greek word Phaiakians (Φαίακες) is derived from phaios (φαιός)[8] meaning grey, hence Phaiakians means "dark-skinned". The Phaiakians in the Odyssey did not know who Odysseus was, so they called him a "stranger". Odysseus however was the king of the majority of the Ionian Islands,[9], not only of Ithaca, but also "of Cephallenia, Neritum, Crocylea, Aegilips, Same and Zacynthus"[10] so if Schería was Corfu, it would be surprising that the citizens of one of the Ionian Islands did not know Odysseus. Furthermore, when Odysseus introduced himself to Nausikaa he added: "if I outlive this time of sorrow, may become my there guests though I live so far away from all of you"[11] indicating that Schería was far away from Ithaca. From the ancient times, some scholars having examined the work and the geography of Homer have suggested that Scheria was located in the Atlantic Ocean. Among them were Strabo and Plutarch.


[edit] Geographical account by Strabo
Approximately eight centuries after Homer, Strabo, the geographer criticized Polybius on the Geography of the Odyssey. Strabo proposed that Schería and Ogygia were located in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

At another instance he (Polybius) suppresses statements. For Homer says also:

"Now after the ship had left the river-stream of Oceanus"[12]
and
"In the island of Ogygia, where is the navel of the sea,"[13]
where the daughter of Atlas lives; and again, regarding the Phaiakians,
"Far apart we live in the wash of the waves, the farthermost of men, and no other mortals are conversant with us."[2]
All these (incidents) clearly suggest that he (Homer) composed them to take place in the Atlantic Ocean.[14] (Strabo, 1.2.18)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 21, 2007, 02:02:33 am
Fancy that - right from Homer's mouth we get advanced ships that need no steering but can think for themselves.  Fast too.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 21, 2007, 08:21:13 am
Dear Qoais:
Phaecia or faiakia can easily interpreted as "Fez" Or "Fas" when If you dont know the place..And ifyou think about They mostly referred After Sicly as Atlantic Ocean.And Homer shows in his map an Island In the middle of Africa and Spain may be It was there at time.(Or known so) And then connected to Africa.
On the other hand "Sheria" is a semitic word. And It means "The Law of religion" or "Divine Law."
Sheria interpreted as Syria..But, I dont know if in Morocco there is a  Sheria also..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 21, 2007, 06:11:33 pm
Dear Qoais: look at the Mauritanias history and geography:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritania
I found a city of Oudane near the Richat structure and It sayslost Garden of Eden..And the plateaus name is ADRAR PLATEAU and The region is ATAR..Doent those names remind you something..And The Russian scientists found an underground river there.
And Look at the ancestors of the mauritanians legends:
A snake with Seven heads!
"For the Soninke people, the decline of their empire was due to the legend of Wagadu, and the rupture of the pact between the empire and the black snake. This happened after the nobles chose Siya Yatabare as the annual sacrifice. She was the most beautiful and “cleanest” virgin girl in that year, but she was also engaged to be married. Her fiancé, Maadi, was the son of Djamere Soukhounou whose unique quality was that he always did what he promised. When Maadi was told him what would happen, that his fiancée would be given to “Bida” - the black snake of Wagadu, he promised Siya that she would not die in the well of Wagadu.

Siya tried to convince him that it is her destiny, that he should let her to be the gift to the snake in order to save the Empire, but Maadi refused. Within days, he asked his friend, the blacksmith of his village named Bomou, to sharpen his saber. When the day came, Maadi set on his way in the direction of the well of Wagadu. Siya Yatabare was well dressed and her hairstyle was in plaited with gold. The praise-singer encouraged her, as did her family. When they left, she saw Maadi and they both fell in tears. Siya told him that if he killed the snake, Wagadu would not have any more rain and the empire would be destroyed forever. Maadi refused, saying their destinies are ratified. He left her and hid himself nearby to wait for the snake.

The snake of Wagadu had seven heads. When the snake took .."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soninke_people


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 21, 2007, 06:41:38 pm
Look Qoais:
The regions name is Atar, the Valleys name is ADDAR. And Look at the pictures:
http://www.madnomad.com/mauritania_photos_0401/
Oadane: http://69.73.180.186/gregg/madPhotos/mauri_0401/img/photos/17_ouadane_DSCF0078_l.jpg
And there is even Aguadira..

--------------------
What else do you want??
With Love and Peace.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 21, 2007, 09:36:53 pm
Quote
What else do you want??

Evidence Dah-ling - Evidence.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 21, 2007, 10:06:44 pm
dear Qoais: Why the Maghrib was called jazirat el maghrib(island Of Maghrib) by the Arabs?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 21, 2007, 10:34:05 pm
And In the Satellite Photo If you look at near richat structure there is aCity called Oadane.In that city a region is called LOST GARDEN OF EDEN


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 22, 2007, 12:32:28 am
Hi Julia
Where are you finding information that it was the Lost Garden of Eden?  I'd like to see it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 22, 2007, 12:46:50 am
Quote
dear Qoais: Why the Maghrib was called jazirat el maghrib(island Of Maghrib) by the Arabs?

Perhaps bcause they were separated from the motherland by the desert.  What writings show that they called it jazirat el maghrib?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 22, 2007, 01:00:07 am
It's too bad Google Earth has these colored squares all over the place.  If you can see the little white word to the left of the Richat Structure, that is Ouadane.  From this height, an old river bed is easily discernable:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/OuadaneRichatStructure.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 22, 2007, 08:09:58 am
here Qoais:
Maghrib (adj. Maghribian)
The western Islamic world (northwest Africa); distinguished from the Mashriq or eastern Islamic world (the Middle East). Traditionally includes Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and what is now Libya. Literally, "the time or place of the sunset--the west." For its Arab conquerors, the region was the "island of the west" (jazirat al maghrib), the land between the "sea of sand" (Sahara) and the Mediterranean Sea. Also translated as Maghreb.
Maliki Rite
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/mauritania/mr_glos.html#Maghrib            Jazirat al maghrib  -    the island of Maghrib
it was may be an island there known by the desert people..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 22, 2007, 08:12:42 am
And If you go to the Google Earth, if you click OAdane(But it must be Touristic places Included in thetexts on the list in the left) There are manylittle round signs on the cities.very near to Oadane(almost together) it says LOST GARDEN OF EDEN)..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 22, 2007, 07:30:52 pm
Dear Qoais:
I think the land Sheria In Homers poems is in Aden yemen..Look at the Yemen history
Look:
Ancient history
 
What is left of Awam Temple or the Sun temple in Marib. Built in the 8th century BC and performed its function for nearly 1000 years.
An ancient sculpture of a griffon from the royal palace at Shabwa, the capital city of HadhramautMain article: Ancient history of Yemen
Yemen is one of the oldest centers of civilization on the Arabian Peninsula. Its relatively fertile land and adequate rainfall in a moister climate helped sustain a stable population, a feature recognized by the ancient Greek geographer Ptolemy, who described Yemen as Eudaimon Arabia (better known in its Latin translation, Arabia Felix) meaning "fortunate Arabia" or Happy Arabia. Between the 12th century BC and the 6th century AD, it was dominated by six successive civilizations which rivaled each other, or were allied with each other and controlled the lucrative spice trade: M'ain, Qataban, Hadhramaut, Awsan, Saba' and Himyarite. Islam arrived in 630 AD, and Yemen became part of the Muslim realm.

During Sabaean rule, trade and agriculture flourished generating much wealth and prosperity. The Sabaean kingdom is located in what is now the Aseer region in southwestern Yemen, and its capital, Ma'rib, is located near what is now Yemen's modern capital, Sana'a [1]. As according to tradition, the eldest son of Noah, Shem, founded the city of Ma'rib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Yemen                     This city of Ma`rib is very ancient and There was a Aseer kingdom there(Asheria-escheria)
According to bluehue, this is Atlantis..but isnt  Atlantis suppose to be bfeore The flood. If Shem built this city,this city must be built after the flood.And this changes Noahs ships landing place too.It must be in South of Arabia..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 23, 2007, 05:32:20 pm
 
PLATO'S ATLANTIS

Frequently Asked Questions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This will be an attempt to shed light on questions regarding Plato's narratives on Atlantis. Many errors and misunderstandings abound concerning what Plato actually said, which has in turn contributed to the rejection of Atlantis in modern scientific circles. It is hoped that this will help correct some of those mistaken ideas, which should lead to a better understanding of Plato's story.


Q. Since Plato lived circa. 350 B.C. and Atlantis sank circa. 9,700 B.C. (a gap of over 9,000 years), how did he happen to know about Atlantis?

A. Supposedly his ancestor Solon learned about it from Egyptian priests during a visit to Sais, Egypt in about 590 B.C. The priests claimed to have access to records about Atlantis written on pillars within the temple. Plutarch writes: "His first voyage was to Egypt . . . [where he] spent some time in study with Psenophis of Heliopolis and Sonchis the Saite, the most learned of all the priests; from whom, as Plato says, getting knowledge of the Atlantic story, he put it into a poem, and proposed to bring it to the knowledge of the Greeks." But a little further on: "Now Solon having begun his great work in verse, the history or fable of the Atlantic Island, which he had learned from the wise men of Sais, and thought it convenient for the Athenians to know, abandoned it . . . because of his age, and being discouraged at the greatness of the task." (Life of Solon, 90 A.D.)


Solon was said to have taken down notes during his visit to Egypt to be used as a basis for the poem--notes which might have been available in Plato's day. Moreover, Plutarch is known to have utilized a vast number of manuscripts (many of which are now lost) when writing his "Lives"--the fact that he seemed to know the names of the priests (never mentioned by Plato) proves that Plutarch had sources other than Plato, raising the question of the possible survival of Solon's notes down to his day as well.


Q. Did Plato ever use the words "continent," or "lost continent" to describe the land of Atlantis ?

A. No. The word Plato uses to describe the landmass of Atlantis is nesos, the Greek word for "island". Even though he calls it a "large island," one must presume he meant an island, not a continent. We shall see shortly that he describes an extremely large island; but, judging from Plato's account, there is no need to be looking for a continental sized landmass.


Q. Where did Plato locate Atlantis?

A. Although different researchers have located Atlantis just about everywhere on the face of the earth, Plato gives several distinctive indications of its true location.

1. "This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean." This gives the general location.
2. Plato also describes Atlantis as "an island (nesos) situated in front of (pro) the straits which are by you called the pillars of Heracles." The Greek word pro can be translated "before," or "in front of". (Some translators prefer to translate pro as "facing" or "opposite".)
3. Plato says both the island and the ocean were named after Atlas, the first born of Poseidon and Cleito. Even Herodotus, a hundred years before Plato, calls the sea beyond the Pillars of Heracles the "Atlantis Sea". (History, Book I)
4. Atlas had a twin named Gadirus, who was allotted the part of the island closest to (epi to) the pillars of Heracles. The ancient city of Gades, on the Atlantic shore of southern Spain (now called Cadiz) was named after Gadirus. This implies proximity.
5. Finally, Plato describes Atlantis as "the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent [America] which surrounds the true ocean [the Atlantic]."

Q. Were the two rocky prominences jutting out from Attica into the Mediterranean Sea ever known to anyone in ancient times as the "pillars of Heracles"? (One might also ask if these two prominences even qualify as being components of such a strait.)


A. In a word, No! If there existed a single shred of evidence, an inscription, a writing, or a reference calling these features the "pillars of Heracles," the proponents of the Minoan Hypothesis would be touting it from the highest hilltops--but no such evidence is ever brought forth.


Q. During his interview with the temple priests at Sais, could Solon have mistranslated the Egyptian hieroglyph meaning "100" mistakingly as "1000" as the advocates of the Minoan Hypothesis have suggested?


A. Not likely. In the first place, contrary to the claims of the advocates of the latter, the glyphs look nothing alike (Budge, 1966). In the second place, Solon was not reading the story from the Egyptian records. It was the Egyptian priests--expert in hieroglyphics--who were relating to Solon what their own temple records said about the lost Atlantis. In the third place, if such an error in translation had occurred, other dates involved in Plato's account would also have been skewed by the same amount. For example, Plato's "8,000 years of Egyptian history" would be reduced to a mere 800, which would barely carry Egyptian civilization back to the time of Moses. To reduce thousands of years of Egyptian history to a few hundred would be ludicrous, to say the least!


Q. How big was Atlantis?


A. Although Plato writes "the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together . . ." we should not imagine that Plato meant what we today call Asia and Africa. Since Plato insists on calling Atlantis an "island," we must realize that their knowledge of those lands most likely consisted of certain Mediterranean coastlands familiar to them. The "Asia" of Plato's time was what we now call Asia Minor. From the answer to the next question we can guess that Plato's information describes an island in the range of 250,000 to 500,000 square miles.


Q. How big was the plain?


A. Plato says that the capital city of Atlantis was near a plain measuring 2,000 x 3,000 stadia, which in modern figures is about 230 by 340 miles (slightly larger than the state of South Dakota in the United States). There were mountains surrounding this plain on three sides. The size of Atlantis depends on the extent of these mountain ranges, and Plato doesn't specify how wide these mountain ranges were.


Q. Plato seems to place the capital city near the ocean, but also in the center of the island. If Atlantis is as large as you say it is, then how could both be true?


A. The reference is probably that found in Plato's Critias where he writes: "Looking towards the sea, but in the center of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the center of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side." This does present a knotty problem, but I think the answer lies in the two shades of meaning in the Greek word mesos, which can indeed mean "center". And it would seem at first glance that he intended to locate the mountain (and the city built on it) in the center of Atlantis. But had Plato really meant the geographical center of the island, he could have wrote eis to kheniron tou nesou ("in the middle of the island").


However, mesos can also mean the "mid-point" in a linear distance, such as a shoreline. It's obvious that for both the city and the plain to be in the center of Atlantis, the city would have to be located in the center of the plain itself, which it is not. Plato locates it "near the plain," but at a distance of about six of our miles. It cannot be both. Notice that Plato begins by saying, "looking towards the sea". It is highly possible that Plato is using mesos in this case to indicate that it is located in the midpoint of the shoreline of the island laterally (that is, looking from left to right), yet being located, at the same time, some six miles south of the plain. This would place the city near the ocean. With its harbor, docks and other port associations, surely Plato's intention was to place the capital city between the plain and the south shoreline of Atlantis (i.e., near the ocean).


Q. Did Plato say that Atlantis sank to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in one day and night?


A. No he didn't. Let's look at the text of Plato's Timaeus where he appears to say this: "But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea." Since the Egyptian priest was speaking to an Athenian (Solon), "your warlike men" refers to the Athenian army, which was fighting on the mainland of Greece. In other words, Plato is saying that not only did the peninsula of Attica suffer an inundation, drowning the Athenian army in a single day; but during the same catastrophe Atlantis also disappeared! Read it carefully. If this convulsion of nature resulted in a catastrophic flood (and/or subsidence) in Europe over a thousand miles from Atlantis, then this cataclysm was no local affair. Apollodorus says: "Poseidon was very wrathful, and flooded the Thraisian plain, and submerged Attica under sea-water." (Bibliotheca, III, 14, 1.) There is abundant geological and paleontological evidence supporting our opinion that this catastrophe--ending the Ice Age and resulting in the Pleistocene extinction--was global in nature.


Q. But doesn't Plato's statement imply that Atlantis sank to the bottom in a day and night?


A. If you read Plato carefully it will be clear that Atlantis sank just below sea level during the cataclysm. Plato says merely that it "disappeared beneath the sea." Even though the Atlantean civilization was destroyed in the horrendous catastrophe, after the geological event was over the land itself ended up just barely covered by the sea. This left the sea outside the Pillars unnavigable because it was extremely shallow. In Plato's own words: "For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island." We have the statements of several Phoenician and Carthaginian sailors which say the Atlantic was extremely shallow and difficult to navigate because of this. Such stories may have been kept alive long after the fact for economic reasons, but these conditions could well have been accurate for an extended period after the disappearance of Atlantis. At least Plato said this was so. Geologists take note: Atlantis has had 12,000 years to settle to where the bottom of the Atlantic is now.


Q. Why did Plato describe Atlantean technology as being basically on the level of the Bronze Age?


A. In general, Plato's description of Atlantean technology did not exceed that of the Bronze Age. Actually, Plato was at a loss. Solon, on his visit to Egypt, had asked the priests at Sais about his own Athenian ancestors; not about Atlantean technology. They answered Solon's inquiries, and in doing so it was necessary for them to explain about the cycles of world catastrophies and their consequences; but to answer his queries it was not necessary for them to go into Atlantean technology. It would be natural for Plato "fill in" certain details using technology and terms he was familiar with in describing the Atlanteans.


Since Atlantis was an island empire located some distance from the mainland, it would have to be assumed that they had ships and the associated knowledge of sailing in order for them to attack the mainland successfully. Plato uses such terms as "triremes" (a triple-decked, oar-driven warship) because that's the technology he was familiar with. It has recently been learned that Ice Age man throughout the world had boats and ships capable of taking him just about anywhere he wanted to go (Thorndike, 1977). This comes as somewhat of a surprise to some anthropologists.


However, there is one element which appears in Plato's Critias involving a technology not re-discovered until almost a thousand years after the passing of the Bronze Age (and some three hundred years after Plato!). He uses the term orichalcum, "which is now only a name, but (kai) was then something more." Some authorities have chosen to rendered it as "mountain copper" ('oros, "mountain," and chalcos, "copper"). (The "brass" mentioned just before orichalcum in the Critias is translated from chalcos--the Greek word for "copper", not "brass".)


Whatever Plato meant to call it, his use of the term in no way implies that he actually understood anything about it. In fact, the "ori" in orichalcum could just as easily reflect a Greek verb meaning "to dig," so mountain may not even belong here. However, etymologists have offered the most sensible derivation as follows:


According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, aurichalcum, the Latin word for "brass" (literally "golden copper"), is etymogically the direct descendant of orichalcum. Brass is more golden-colored than either copper or bronze (both of which are reddish). Therefore, it is likely that "orichalcum" meant simply a golden-colored metal containing copper, and the metal which fits this description is brass.


Bronze is a copper-tin alloy, but brass is a copper-zinc, and the metallurgical technique for combining zinc with copper was not re-discovered until almost a thousand years after the Bronze Age. Strabo is the earliest classical writer to mention brass (40 B.C.); and the earliest known archeological artifact made of brass is a Roman coin dated 20 B.C. But if Plato is accurate, the Atlantean civilization had mastered this metallurgical technique at least 10,000 years earlier. (He couldn't have made it up, since brass was not "discovered" until three hundred years after his lifetime.)


Q. Professional anthropologists and archeologists do not see evidence of "ancient Athenians" living 12,000 or more years ago: if such a culture did exist, shouldn't there be archeological remains?


A. This is a problem, but not one without a viable explanation. First of all, the Acropolis is "sacred ground" so to speak, and archeological excavation cannot be carried out underneath the present day temple complex. If any evidence of an earlier society exists, it cannot be uncovered by modern archeological investigators.


But more importantly, In his Critias Plato says that the Acropolis as it stood in his day is not the same as it was before the cataclysm which sank Atlantis. He says that before this great catastrophe the area for miles around was covered with deep fertile soil. He states explicitly that the disturbance accompanying the destruction of Atlantis was so powerful that not only was the entire Attic peninsula inundated, but that all of the deep fertile soil surrounding Athens was also washed away in the disaster, leaving only the rocky acropolis standing as the "bare bones" of the once gently rolling landscape. Such a powerful action would have also washed away any structures, artifacts and other human remains.


Plato cannot be accused of making this part up merely to cover himself, since he could not have known of the development of the science of archeology some two thousand years in the future--no more than he could have known that geologists would eventually discover that the end of Atlantis coincided chronologically with the end of the last Ice Age.


The description of the "ancient Athenians" given by Plato corresponds favorably with what we now know of man living in Upper Paleolithic Greece. He says there were many artisans, farmers, and husbandmen living on and around where the Acropolis now stands. (See Anthropology section for details on Upper Paleolithic technology.) Their dwellings and central structures were "modest" and not adorned with silver or gold. He adds that they used neither of these metals "for any purpose," taking the "middle course" between simple crudeness and pretentious ostentation.


In the center of the "city" was a fenced area enclosing a few central structures, surrounded immediately by the dwellings of the warrior class. Such would be a practical defensive arrangment. (Fencing is a feature which has not been verified by modern investigation, but it certainly would not be startling if true.) All in all, this is a very humble description of a people to which such greatness was attributed, and therefore has the ring of truth to it. Plato described the Atlanteans very differently!


Q. If the Atlanteans were technologically advanced over the ancient Athenians, how did the Athenians manage to defeat them?


A good question! It should also be noticed that the areas dominated by Upper Paleolithic Cro-Magnon Man are the very same areas described by the Egyptian priests as having been conquered by the Atlanteans. Since I believe the Atlanteans to have a civilization equal at least in technology to the Aztec and Incas of the Americas (Plato accredits them with a Bronze Age technology), and that the Athenian technology was quite humble in comparison, how could the ancient Athenians have stopped the Atlanteans?


Actually, there is a logical, answer to this incongruity. From a pure military standpoint, I don't believe they did! The Atlanteans were stopped alright. But logic should tell you that this happened because the geological upheaval that drowned both their homeland and flooded Attica (where they were fighting) threatened their very existence. All energies had to be redirected just to survive the catastrophic events that came crashing down upon them. This was no mere earthquake. Everything in heaven and earth came loose before their eyes in an unimaginable cataclysmic event that inundated several entire countries, wiped out millions of animals worldwide, and nearly wiped out mankind. Any thoughts about war had to be totally abandoned.


The cessation of Atlantean aggression was what lived on in Egyptian history, and the cataclysm which interrupted the war became secondary. Moreover, the Atlanteans could not even return home in their defeat--their homeland was gone forever! The world had suddenly changed for both sides. According to Hesiod and the Hindu epics, the "gods" had intervened.

A FINAL COMMENT

As noted above, Atlantis was overwhelmed by floods and earthquakes during the ending of the last Ice Age, when massive glaciers were melting and as a result sea levels were rising. The earth's crust was also flexing in an attempt to adjust to the massive changes in the weight of the ice (some glaciers were two to three miles thick). Such geophysical activity could easily trigger violent earthquakes. If Plato invented the story of Atlantis, he was unbelievably lucky to date its demise when he did, since he knew nothing of Ice Ages.


A Russian scholar, Viatcheslav Koudriavtsev, has done some excellent research in oceanographic and geological data and their relationship to details found in Plato's accounts. In my estimation, his hypothesis that Atlantis might have been located on the Keltic Shelf (south of Britain and West of France) is plausible. But most importantly he gathers abundant data demonstrating scientifically that the end of the last Ice Age was anything but smooth and gradual.


If an axial variation was also involved, as some geologists are coming to believe, there would also be massive volcanism (for which there is reliable scientific support, even though Plato doesn't include it) and unimaginable tidal waves raging over land masses of the earth.


It's a pity Koudriavtsev's web site has disappeared from the net (at least I can't find it). His exegesis of Plato's text was careful and well-thought out. He used the Greek text alongside the English translations of Thomas Taylor (1793) and Desmond Lee. The exegesis presented here utilizes the Greek along with the translation of Benjamin Jowett of Oxford (1892).


   


Bibliography

Budge, E. A. Wallis, Egyptian Language, Routledge & Kegan Paul Ltd., London, 1966.
Herodotus, "History": Clio (Rawlinson's translation), 450 B.C.
Plato, Timaeus and Critias Dialogues (Benjamin Jowett's translation), 360 B.C.
Plutarch, Life of Solon, (The Dryden Translation), 90 A.D.
Taylor, Thomas (translator), Plato's (Critias), published by Axon, London, 1793.
Thorndike, Joseph J. Jr., (editor) Mysteries of the Past, American Heritage Publ. Co.,
New York, 1977.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

URL: http://www.atlantisquest.com
Version 1.3, Atlantek Software Inc.
Last updated, 23 Mar 2006.   


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 23, 2007, 07:46:28 pm
Who wrote the answers?  I couldn't fine this article on the site that you listed.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 23, 2007, 07:53:29 pm
R. Cedric Leonard

Home Page

Click on the little scroll that says Plato's account FAQ's

http://www.atlantisquest.com/


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 23, 2007, 11:02:42 pm
Okay, I found it.  But in the final analysis don't the answers simply represent his opinion?  I mean we could each write our own set of FAQ's, couldn't we?

I know this Leonard fellow wants to be scientific, but sometimes the study of Atlantis requires more art than science.  Otherwise one becomes hopelessly confused.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on June 23, 2007, 11:24:10 pm
Oh I agree.  Personally, I've been stumbling along on my own using my "intuitive understanding" in a lot of cases.  For me, Atlantis is just a small cog in a very big wheel.  I kind of skimmed thru it quite quickly, coming to conclusions that others did after years of research.  I'm no rocket scientist, but logic rules as far as I'm concerned.   Leonard tried very hard to use the data available from the old texts, and those that have been accepted as interpretations.  Only Georgeos argues that all these interpretations are erroneous.
Personally, I think the pryamids are a major clue to everything.  I do believe they were a type of power plant.  If we could find and excavate all the pyramids on earth, we'd likely figure this mystery out.  Although it is possible that the Atlanteans themselves, did not build pyramids.  It does seem tho, that they pissed someone off, and that someone wreaked vengence upon them with a passion.  Plato only touched the tip of the iceberg.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on June 24, 2007, 02:33:34 am
(_@_)  ......... (head-up-ass)  One of my favorite Assies!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 24, 2007, 04:32:53 am
Yes, Plato simply brought the story of Atlantis to the attention of the western world.  He spruced up the account for dramatic effect, and it worked.  We are still studying Timaeus and Critias intensely today.  Each word is analyed for every possible nuance of meaning that will lead to a whole new theory about where and what Atlantis really was.


Oh I agree.  Personally, I've been stumbling along on my own using my "intuitive understanding" in a lot of cases.  For me, Atlantis is just a small cog in a very big wheel.  I kind of skimmed thru it quite quickly, coming to conclusions that others did after years of research.  I'm no rocket scientist, but logic rules as far as I'm concerned.   Leonard tried very hard to use the data available from the old texts, and those that have been accepted as interpretations.  Only Georgeos argues that all these interpretations are erroneous.
Personally, I think the pryamids are a major clue to everything.  I do believe they were a type of power plant.  If we could find and excavate all the pyramids on earth, we'd likely figure this mystery out.  Although it is possible that the Atlanteans themselves, did not build pyramids.  It does seem tho, that they pissed someone off, and that someone wreaked vengence upon them with a passion.  Plato only touched the tip of the iceberg.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 24, 2007, 06:28:29 am


Qoais and Tom, after "getting into India" ( thanks to Q) I think I am going to investigate that part of
the world a lot more.  Seems to me that they were way ahead of the West.  Where did all this
knowledge come from? 

It's been over 40 years since I read Churchward.  Time to re-read his books amd refresh my
memory.  And anything out there that there is to research........

Love and Peace,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on June 24, 2007, 07:47:42 am

Q and Tom:

Look at what I just spotted: finally a Hindu-Atlantis link!


FROM:
http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/comcom/vimana.htm

"The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the Indian texts, describe Vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the "ahnihotra-vimana" with two engines, the "elephant-vimana" with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals.

Unfortunately, Vimanas, like most scientific discoveries, were ultimately used for war. Atlanteans used their flying machines, "Vailixi," a similar type of aircraft, to literally try and subjugate the world, it would seem, if Indian texts are to be believed. The Atlanteans, known as "Asvins" in the Indian writings, were apparently even more advanced technologically than the Indians, and certainly of a more war-like temperment. Although no ancient texts on Atlantean Vailixi are known to exist, some information has come down through esoteric, "occult" sources which describe their flying machines. Similar, if not identical to Vimanas, Vailixi were generally "cigar shaped" and had the capability of manuvering underwater as well as in the atmosphere or even outer space. Other vehicles, like Vimanas, were saucer shaped, and could apparently also be submerged.

According to Eklal Kueshana, author of "The Ultimate Frontier," in an article he wrote in 1966, Vailixi were first developed in Atlantis 20,000 years ago, and the most common ones are "saucershaped of generally trapezoidal cross-section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside." "They use a mechanical antigravity device driven by engines developing approximately 80,000 horse power." The Ramayana, Mahabarata and other texts speak of the hideous war that took place, some ten or twelve thousand years ago between Atlantis and Rama using weapons of destruction that could not be imagined by readers until the second half of this century. The ancient Mahabharata, one of the sources on Vimanas, goes on to tell the awesome destructiveness of the war: "...(the weapon was) a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe."


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on June 24, 2007, 02:18:20 pm
Dear Qoais:
Look: Algeria History:In the  all the Arabic world This place(maghrib) is called jazirat(Island) Why??

[edit] Name
The name Algeria is derived from the name of the city of Algiers (French Alger), from the Arabic word al-jazā’ir, which translates as the islands", referring to the four islands which lay off the city's coast until becoming part of the mainland in 1525. Al-jazā’ir is itself a truncated form of the city's older name jazā’ir banī mazghannā, "the jazeera of (the tribe) Bani Mazghanna", used by early medieval geographers such as al-Idrisi and Yaqut al-Hamawi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 08, 2007, 03:31:19 am
It's starting to appear to me that there was more than one race living on earth at certain periods of time, although some seem to have died out.  Referring to the giants, skulls and skeletons have been found of large sizes all over the place, but not in great numbers.  And yet, all the ancient buildings seem to have been built to accommodate giants.  Maybe that's why the buildings are so big and not actually in honor of the gods, (unless the giants were considered gods).  Perhaps the giants did build the structures for themselves. 

An extract and photograph from the British S t r a n d magazine of December 1895, reprinted in W. G. Wood-Martin's book Traces of the Elder Faiths of Ireland, mentions a fossilised giant that had been found during mining operations in County Antrim, Ireland:

Pre-eminent among the most extraor - dinary articles ever held by a railway company is the fossilised Irish giant, which is at this moment lying at the London and North-Western Railway Company's Broad-street goods depot, and a photograph of which is reproduced here...
This monstrous figure is reputed to have been dug up by a Mr Dyer whilst prospecting for iron ore in County Antrim. The principal measurements are: entire length, 12 ft 2 in.; girth of chest, 6 ft 6 in.; and length of arms, 4 ft 6 in. There are six toes on the right foot. The gross weight is 2 tons 15 cwt.; so that it took half a dozen men and a powerful crane to place this article of lost property in position for the Strand magazine artist.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/IrishGiant.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on July 08, 2007, 11:31:12 am
Amazing!  Olof Rudbeck found a lot of bodies of this general dimention when opening many hundreds of mound-graves in northern Sweden in the mid 1700s.  This is partly what led to his conclusion to place Atlantis there.  See FINDING ATLANTIS by David King.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 08, 2007, 12:39:07 pm
Hi Rocky
I bought Finding Atlantis and found it an excellent book.  In my opinion, Olof Rudbeck was sheer genius.  A man before his time.  We need people like him today, to figure things out logically and go do the hands-on work.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on July 08, 2007, 07:01:39 pm
He had the advantage of having a lot of students to work on many projects for him.   Also he proved that Jason and the Argonaughts could have pulled/rolled a big boat across a stretch of land between rivers as told in the myth, by using one of his own mail-boats and enough young men to handily prove it possible.....

I am thinking that someone could do a great study on finding coherence in Rudbeck, Felice Vinci and the Bock saga.....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on July 10, 2007, 06:35:07 pm
Dear Qoais: I found this In the Internet about the Garden of Hesperides:
GARDEN OF THE HESPERIDES

Type: Terrestrial Garden

Environment: Earth-Like

Usual Means of Access: The Garden of the Hesperides was located "beyond the river Oceanus and somewhere in western (ancient) Libya near the mountains of Atlas" in what is now part of modern Morocco.

Dominant Life-Form: The Hesperides (Aegle, Erytheia, Haestia, Arethusa, Hespere, Hesperusa and Hespereia - daughters of Atlas), Ladon,

Features: The Garden of the Hesperides provides the golden apples of immortality from which the Olympian Gods derive their immortality.

First Appearance: Hercules III#1 (June, 2005)

History: (Greek/Roman myth) - The Garden of the Hesperides was the sacred garden of Hera from where the Olympian Gods derived their immortality. A wedding gift from Gaea to Hera, the garden was placed in an inaccessible spot on the fringes of the western edge in the command of the Olympian gods. They were tended for the the Hesperides, minor goddesses of earth and daughters of the Titan Atlas, who spent their time singing and dancing when their attention was not devoted to gardening. They were further protected by an immense serpent named Ladon, off-spring of Typhon and Echidna.

Despite their remote location, the Hesperides was visited by Perseus, son of Zeus and heir to the throne of Argos. He had divulged their location from the Graiae who had sent him to seek out the Hesperides for weapons enchanted enough to slay the Gorgon Medusa. As he returned to give back the weapons, Perseus tried to stay as their guest but was roused from his revelry by Atlas imprisoned nearby. Using the head of Medusa, Perseus transformed Atlas to stone.

(Greek/Roman Myth/Hercules III#1 (fb)) - For his Eleventh Labor, Perseus's great-grandson, Hercules, also a son of Zeus, was sent to pick apples from the garden for King Eurystheus of Mycenae. However, their location had never been revealed and Hercules had to wrestle the secret of their location from Nereus, the Old Man of the Sea.  He killed Ladon, the dragon that protected the apples, but he eventually needed Atlas to pick them for him. Offering to hold back the heavens while Atlas picked the apples, Hercules was trapped under the burden of the heavens as Atlas decided to leave him and take the apples to Mycenae himself. Using his wits, Hercules asked Atlas to hold back the heavens long enough to get a better grip on them, but as Atlas took back his place, Hercules snatched up the apples and departed in haste. Before departing entirely, he created a freshwater spring to refresh himself which in his absence also saved the Argonauts from thirst as they fought to return to Greece. In Mycenae, Eurystheus was forced to turned over the apples to the goddess Athena who returned them to the Hesperides.

Comments: Adapted by Frank Tieri, Mark Texeira and James Palmiotti

According to the continuity of the "Legendary Journeys," eating one of the golden apples made a normal human immortal although lacking in godly gifts until tasting ambrosia. This is how Callisto (the blonde female psychopath, not the Arcadia priestess from the myths) became the goddess of hate and yet, still not a worthy  match for Xena.

Some myths place the garden far to the north in Hyperborea, in what would be modern Scandinavia (where the Asgardian gods could have sneaked quite a few) or in Northern Italy, but considering the connection to Atlas, Libya has been the most faithful location.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on July 10, 2007, 06:41:13 pm
And This is from wikipedia:
Hesperides
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Greek deities
series
Primordial deities
Titans and Olympians
Aquatic deities
Chthonic deities
Personified concepts

 
For the ancient Greek city of Hesperides see Benghazi.
In Greek mythology, the Hesperides (Greek: Ἑσπερίδες) are nymphs who tend a blissful garden in a far western corner of the world, located near the Atlas mountains in Libya, or on a distant blessed island at the edge of the encircling Oceanus, the world-ocean.[1]

According to the Sicilian Greek poet Stesichorus, in his poem the "Song of Geryon", and the Greek geographer Strabo, in his book Geographika (volume III), the Hesperides are in Tartessos, a location placed in the south of Iberia (Spain). The Euboean Greek poet Hesiod said that the ancient name of Cádiz was Erytheia, another name for the Hesperides. Others[citation needed] situate the gardens of Hesperides in the region located between Tangier (formerly Tinjis) and Larache in Morocco.

Contents [hide]
1 The evening
2 The Garden of the Hesperides
3 The Eleventh Labour of Heracles
4 Passing references
5 See also
6 Notes
7 External links
 


[edit] The evening
Ordinarily the Hesperides number three, like the other Greek triads (the Three Graces and the Moirae). "Since the Hesperides themselves are mere symbols of the gifts the apples embody, they cannot be actors in a human drama. Their abstract, interchangeable names are a symptom of their impersonality," Evelyn Harrison has observed;[2] nevertheless, among the names given to them, though never all at once, are Aegle ("dazzling light"), Arethusa, Erytheia (or Erytheis), Hesperia (alternatively Hespereia, Hespere, Hespera, Hesperusa, or Hesperethoosa). Lipara, Asterope and Chrysothemis are named in a Hesperide scene of the apotheosis of Heracles on a late fifth-century hydria by the Meidias Painter in London[3] They are sometimes called the Western Maidens, the Daughters of Evening, or Erythrai, the "Sunset Goddesses", designations all apparently tied to their imagined location in the distant west. Hesperis is appropriately the personification of the evening (as Eos is of the dawn) and the Evening Star is Hesperus. In addition to their tending of the garden, they were said to have taken great pleasure in singing.

They are sometimes portrayed as the evening daughters of Night (Nyx) and Darkness (Erebus), in accord with the way Eos in the farthermost east, in Colchis, is the daughter of the titan Hyperion. Or they are listed as the daughters of Atlas, or of Zeus and either Hesperius or Themis, or Phorcys and Ceto.

Erytheia ("the red one") is one of the Hesperides. The name was applied to the island close to the coast of southern Hispania, that was the site of the original Punic colony of Gades (modern Cadiz). Pliny's Natural History (4.36) records of the island of Gades: "On the side which looks towards Spain, at about 100 paces distance, is another long island, three miles wide, on which the original city of Gades stood. By Ephorus and Philistides it is called Erythia, by Timæus and Silenus Aphrodisias, and by the natives the Isle of Juno." The island was the seat of Geryon, who was overcome by Heracles.


[edit] The Garden of the Hesperides
 
The Garden of the Hesperides by Frederick, Lord Leighton, 1892The Garden of the Hesperides is Hera's orchard in the west, where either a single tree or a grove of immortality-giving golden apples grew. The apples were planted from the fruited branches that Gaia gave to her as a wedding gift when Hera accepted Zeus. The Hesperides were given the task of tending to the grove, but occasionally plucked from it themselves. Not trusting them, Hera also placed in the garden a never-sleeping, hundred-headed, dragon, named Ladon, as an additional safeguard.


[edit] The Eleventh Labour of Heracles
In order to make twelve out of the ten labours of Heracles, it was suggested that Eurystheus discounted those where Heracles was aided or paid, and so two additional labours were given. The first of these was to steal the apples from the garden of the Hersperides. Heracles first caught Nereus, the shape-shifting sea god, to learn where the Garden of the Hesperides was located.[4]

In some variations, Heracles, either at the start or at the end of his task, meets Antaeus, who was invincible as long as he touched his mother, Gaia, the earth. Antaeus was killed by suspending him in a tree.

Occasionally, versions tell that Heracles stopped in Egypt, where King Busiris decided to make him the yearly sacrifice, but Heracles burst out of his chains.

Finally making his way to the Garden of the Hesperides, Heracles tricked Atlas into retrieving some of the golden apples for him, by offering to hold up the heavens for a little while (Atlas was able to take them as, in this version, he was the father or otherwise related to the Hesperides). Upon his return, Atlas decided that he did not want to take the heavens back, and instead offered to deliver the apples himself, but Heracles tricked him again by agreeing to take his place on condition that Atlas relieve him temporarily so that Heracles could make his cloak more comfortable. Atlas agreed, but Heracles reneged and walked away. According to an alternative version, Heracles slew Ladon instead.

Heracles was the only person to steal the apples, other than Perseus, although Athena later returned the apples to their rightful place in the garden. They are considered by some to be the same "apples of joy" that tempted Atalanta, as opposed to the "apple of discord" used by Eris to start a beauty contest on Olympus.

On Attic pottery, especially from the late fifth century, Heracles is depicted sitting in bliss in the Gardens of the Hesperides, attended by the maidens. Later, William Shakespeare wrote "For valour, is not Love a Hercules. Still climbing trees in the Hesperides?" (Love's Labours Lost, IV.III).


[edit] Passing references
In his book The Greatest Salesman in the World, Mandino refers to the Garden of Hesperides in the The Scroll Marked I. It reads "Failure no longer will be my payment for struggle. Just as nature made no provision for my body to tolerate pain neither has it made any provision for my life to suffer failure. Failure, like pain is alien to my life. In the past I accepted it as I accepted pain. Now I reject it and I am prepared for wisdom and principles which will guide me out of the shadows into the sunlight of wealth, position, and happiness far beyond my most extravagant dreams until even the golden apples in the Garden of Hesperides will seem no more than my just reward."

In the fantasy series the Underland Chronicles by Suzanne Collins, there is a place known as the Garden of Hesperides. It is destroyed by Hamnet before the book begins.


[


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 10, 2007, 07:50:36 pm
Hi Julia
I also have thought that the Gardens of the Hesperides were in the west, what would now be Morocco, or an island off that coast.  This Garden was supposedly near where the Atlanteans lived as well.  I believe Atlantis was a large country, but where the main city was built, was on a man-made island.  That island would only have been as big as the description Plato gave of it, and if it sunk, that doesn't mean the whole land of Atlantis sunk also.  Plato says the sinking caused a shoal of mud, and I've re-read that passage, and it seems that he's only talking about this shoal of mud blocking the ocean for the locals in the Atlantis area, not everyone that was trying to access the Atlantic from the Med.  If the Hesperides were in Tartessos, then for sure, Spain would have been part of Atlantis. 

If Spain WAS a part of Atlantis, it seems strange that they themselves don't have anything in their verbal or written history talking about it.  You'd think the Spanish would have travelled to Egypt themselves, and talked to the priests to find out what was going on in the world, as the priests seem to be the local telegraph office!!! Maybe Atlantis WAS Tartessos just like Docyabut has been saying, and Plato just called it Atlantis because it was on the coast of the ocean.  By using the word Atlantis, he could have just been indicating the whole area and the decendants of Atlas.  Like an "expression" so his listeners would understand that these were a coastal people or something.

NOTE:  Today is now Jan. 24, 2010.  I am adding this piece of information to this post as I find it most ironic!!

Lost city of Atlantis 'could be buried in southern Spain'
Archaeologists have begun the search for an ancient civilization in southern Spain that some believe could help pinpoint the legendary lost city of Atlantis.

By Fiona Govan in Madrid
Published: 6:00AM GMT 19 Jan 2010
A team of researchers from Spain's Higher Council for Scientific Study (CSIC) are examining a marshy area of Andalusian parkland to find evidence of a 3,000-year-old settlement.
They believe that Tartessos, a wealthy civilization in southern Iberia that predates the Phoenicians, may have had its capital in the heart of what is now the Donana national park.

Link to complete article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/7019522/Lost-city-of-Atlantis-could-be-buried-in-southern-Spain.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on July 10, 2007, 10:47:03 pm
Dear Qoais:
I really dont think Atlantis is in Spain..My guts tells me different.ButSince there is no real scientific research we have to accept may be georges theory..I think it is nearby though in Morocco or the Richat structure.Anyway, unforunately we cant prove it otherwise.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 11, 2007, 02:09:28 am
Well Julia, it isn't just Georgeos' theory.  There's tons of people who think it was an island west of Gibralter, with Spain being a part of it.  Anybody who just reads Plato thru once, puts the book down, and thinks, "oh, Atlantis was in the Atlantic ocean".  BUT, if one studies every word of Plato, then one starts to get confused again.  Like I did.  Then there's the confusion between Atlantis the country, and Atlantis the City. 

Plato says Atlantis went beneath the waves.  He didn't specify that it was just the city, but it may have been.  It was Edgar Cayce who told about Atlantis breaking up three times before it sunk.  It was also Edgar Cayce who said Atlantis would be found off the coast of Bimini.  It was also Cayce who said that the Atlanteans went to Egypt, and he did mention also, that the first "perfect" human was born in Egypt, meaning to me, that someone WAS messing with the DNA.  BUT, this was really really a long way back, and not just 11,500 years ago.  Atlantis may have lasted for thousands and thousands of years before it finally broke up. We really have no idea of the time line for Atlantis.

They say that so far, there is no proof in the Atlantic Ocean to show that an island existed there.  But I say, how do they expect to find it when the earth tilted on it's axis, and everything that was up, is down, and vice versa?  Then there's been volcanos, tectonic plate shifting, major floods, etc. etc.  If Atlantis did stretch from Spain to Cuba, then I think it more likely that something that is still recognizable will be found near Bimini, as I don't think there was as much tectonic activity there as in the Med. and in the Atlantic off the coast of Spain.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on July 11, 2007, 04:51:34 pm
Dear Qoais:
I cannot find the city that Georgeos said.the city JAEN..Where is this city?near Huelva??Or near sevilla?/
I looked everywhere I saw some ring like structures??Are they jaen(In the shore) near huelva?? Or near the mouth fo the Guadalqiuvir river??


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 12, 2007, 01:08:44 am
East of Cordoba - North of Granada

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/JaenSpain.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on July 12, 2007, 05:19:17 am
Qoais ,you might want to move that peg of Gerogous`s site, thats not where he placed it.I have to say this for Gerogous, he`s the only one  today that has found artifacts to support his theroy. He posted them long time ago and all the photos were really something to see,stone walls, vases ,and what looked like a  large sun disk, copper pins ect.ect. Samast found nothing at Cyprus, Gerg  maybe a stone achor at Bimini.


http://picasaweb.google.es/GeorgeosDiaz/GeorgeosDiazMontexanosSAlbum/photo#5042230382303635778



 










Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on July 12, 2007, 05:36:42 am
Also in order to understand Cayce `s Atlantis, one has to understand Cayce.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 12, 2007, 10:52:47 am
Hi Docyabut
The pin moves with the zooming in and out.  In order to show Julia where Jaen was, I had to go to a higher altitude. 

This is from G's website.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/GeorgeosLocation.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 12, 2007, 11:04:31 am
I just noticed in Georges map, this large circle at the end of the Atlas mountains where the Amazons supposedly originated.  Does anyone know where I can go on the web and find relief maps like this?  I'd love to look at a few other places in this mode.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/LargeCircle.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 22, 2007, 11:45:18 pm
Here is something I didn't know.  I didn't realize that in ancient times, numbers were important, especially when it came to the "meaning" and therefore "power" of names.  Also, I didn't realize just how important almost every word of Plato's writings were regarding whether or not they were translated correctly. 

In my copy by Lee, when Plato is about to tell the story but warns the audience ahead of time that they may be surprised at hearing foreigners names being referred to by Greek names.  Here is a bit of the line .....he learned that the Egyptians had translated the originals into their own language, he went through the reverse process, and as he learned the meaning of name wrote it down in Greek.

However, what I did NOT know, was that numerology was most important in the meaning of the name, and the numbers for the names had to be equal to the total of the letters in Greek as well as Egyptian.

In this work, the author says - regarding that line I just quoted -  would read instead - ...he went through the reverse process, and as he learned the "power" of the name, wrote it down in Greek.

Quote
PLATO'S ATLANTIS WORD PUZZLE 

No edition of Plato, with which I am acquainted, calls attention to the fact that his story of Atlantis contains a very simple but interesting and important cipher.

It is difficult to see how it has escaped notice, for Plato specifically states that the names are given in cipher and specifically states the nature of the, cipher, one well-known to adepts of his time, and specifically gives, and states that he gives, along with one of the names, its cipher solution, so affording a means of checking the method. 

To quote Critias, sections VII and VIII: 

"Yet before we narrate this, we must briefly warn you not to be surprised at hearing Hellenic names given to barbarians; and the cause of this you shall now hear. Solon, intending to make use of this story in his poetry, made an investigation into the power of names, and found that the early Egyptians who committed these facts to writing transferred these names into their own language, and he again receiving the meaning of each name, introduced it into our language . . . and to the twin born after him who had received for his share the extreme parts of the nesos (land) towards the Pillars of Hercules, as far as the region which now in that country is called Gadeirica, he gave the titular name which we Greeks call Eumelus, but which the people of that country call Gadeirus."

The "power of names" cipher was a standard international cipher used by scholars of that and earlier and later ages. By it a name, to be correctly translated, must not only mean the same thing as the original, but the letters of each, read as numbers, must, when added, give the same sum. To take an example from Berossus (Eusebi Chronicorum, Liber 'Prior, Schoene, pp. 14-18). "The ruler of them all was a woman whose name was Omorka, which in Chaldean is interpreted Thalatth, and in Greek Thalassa; but by numerical equivalence it is Selene."

The international number-letter system, omitting now discussion of modified values given to some of the "hundreds" letters, was: 


 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9 
 
Units
 a
 b
 g
 d
 e
 F
 z
 e
 th 
 
Tens
 i
 k
 1
 m
 n
 ks
 o
 p
 kh 
 
Hundreds
 r
 s
 t
 u
 ph
 ch
 ps
 o
 sh
 


(F is the digamma which may be taken as v or w; e is eta and o is omega)

Taking the example given by Berossus, we have: 

Omorka is numerically 70,40,70,100,20,1, the sum of which is 301: 

Selene is numerically 200,5,30,8,50,8, the sum of which is 301. 

And so Selene is considered to be the perfect translation of Omorka. 

Taking next the example given by Plato, of one of the Atlantis -names, i.e. that Eumeles is the Greek translation of the Egyptian Gadeirus, we must remember that Solon, who tells the story, lived several hundred years before Plato and spoke an older form of Greek, and that even if Plato did give the spelling as handed down to him, it was probably corrected as old-fashioned by his editors. So we must be prepared to change the scientific spelling of the Greek grammarians back to the old spelling of Solon's time. According to the rule of the cipher, Gadeirus and Eumeles must mean the same thing. Since Gadeirus is Egyptian, it can only be connected with the root Gad, meaning "happy". So Eumeles must mean "happy" and, on looking in Liddell and Scott's Greek Dictionary, we find the word eumeles and that it was used by the poet Plato, who lived in the time of the philosopher Plato, in the sense of "agreeable". So the first condition is fulfilled. 

For the second, we have Plato's statement that the name was a titular one of the land of Gadeirica and, on looking in Liddell and Scott again, we find that the proper Greek for an inhabitant of Gadeirica is Gadeireus.

Gadeireus is then 3,1,4,5,10,100,5,400,200 and the sum is 728. 

Eumeles is 5,400,40,5,30,8,200 and its sum is 688. 

They do not agree. But, looking in our Greek dictionary, we find other words, such as eummelies, from eu and melia, also emmeles, etc., showing that the M was commonly doubled, and other facts indicating that Eumeles was originally spelled with two Ms and that, for scansion and to avoid confusion, one M was dropped later by the grammarians. So we have: 

Eummeles which is 5,400,40,40,5,30,8,200 and totals 728, the same as Gadeireus, and the second condition is fulfilled; as of course it must be, since Plato gave it as an example.

We can now proceed somewhat confidently to solve the rest of the cipher. Take the name of the mother of Gadeireus, i.e. Klito. Its meaning is "the end", (Greek Klitos). What name of an Egyptian woman means "end"? Plutarch, in his "Iris and Osiris", section 38, says: "for which reason they call Nephthys the `end' and say that she is the consort of Typhon." 

We know that the true spelling is Naphthys (see Herodotus, 7.193) and that it is the word from which naphtha is derived. So we have: 

Klito is numerically 20,30,10,300,800 and sums to 1160. 

Naphthys is numerically 50,1,500,9,400,200 and sums to 1160. 

So this is the correct translation of the cipher.

Klito married Poseidon, or in old Greek, Poteidaon, whose Egyptian equivalent is Typhon. 

Poteidaon is 80,70,300,5,10,4,1,800,50 which sums to 1320. 

Typhon is 300,400,500,70,50 the sum of which is 1320

 and as Plutarch states, supra, Nephthys married Typhon. 

Atlas is Harmakhis (the Pillars) . 

Atlas is numerically 1,300,30,1,200 which sums to 532. 

Harmakhis is 90,1,100,40,1,90,10,200 which sums to 532. 

And now go on with the story. Solve the other names and you will be interested. Atlantis city was at the hot springs near Pjatigorsk, north of the Dariel Pass. The mud flats Plato speaks of have now been solidified. You will find Gadira on the old maps to the southeast of Atlantis. 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on July 23, 2007, 12:03:51 am
That numerical value chart should have looked like this:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/LetterValues003.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2007, 02:01:20 am
I have been thinking a lot lately about this "location of Atlantis" problem.

It seems to me that the whole placement of Atlantis hinges on that one statement of Plato"s that is argued over so much:

Did he say the size of Libya and Asia - or did he say Between Libya and Asia? 

It seems the ancient Greek is a tricky language, with all kinds of nuances and different meanings, so if it could be determined that he actually said "Between" Libya and Asia, then it would certainly narrow the target area down to something manageable. 

I also wondered if the priest wasn't subtely hinting that ancient, ancient Egypt was actually part of Atlantis.  If he said "between" Libya and Asia, then there is only two places it could be.  Egypt or Arabia.  Now I'm not a scholar on this stuff, but I kind of gathered that Egypt and Arabia were populated by the same culture for years and years, or perhaps I should say similar cultures, and that the peoples mixed with each other for centuries. 

Now I know Blue Hue is hard to understand sometimes, but I got to thinking about some of the things he said, (trying to sort the wheat from the chaff), and I was thinking that if the priest wasn't being subtle, what WAS he saying?  If he said "between" Libya and Asia, knowing full well that Egypt is between Libya and Asia, was he referring to his own country in the distant past?  Doesn't really sound like it because he also says that they, and all those within the area were grateful to be released from Atlantean rule. (Although that could be part of the priest's subtle talk too - especially if he was a true Egyptian and didn't like the rule of the Atlanteans) So if he meant Arabia, one would think he'd just say Arabia, since he knew that country existed also. 

So logically, just from other things Plato has said, it would seem that he DIDN'T know the location of Atlantis, other than in general terms, but he DID get the description down in detail.  Since the priest would have known of Arabia, and Solon would have known of Arabia, and Plato too, then it seems to me the writings would have mentioned the place by name.  But since the location is the part that's so controversial, I personally think he did mean somewhere west of Gibralter.  Neither he nor Solon had travelled outside the Med. say to England where the tin came from, and yet they knew tin came from up there somewhere.  But they couldn't give a location for Atlantis.  Therefore, it seems to me, that it could well have been an island in the Atlantic, or it was in the Americas.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on August 26, 2007, 12:25:03 am
*** Personally Im PLAY[toe]'d out ! ! !  I dont want to PLAY [toe] this game anymore ! ! !  Technically America is Between Libya and Asia according to current Atlas's?     Qoais are you near the Balloon Crash?       d.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 26, 2007, 11:15:36 am
Hi 3D
Yes, it was just down the road a ways.  We knew something really big had happened because there were tons of police cars, and fire engines roaring by that evening, but we didn't know what it was until the morning.  It was pretty horrendous.  We've had them come down in our field before, but this is the first time one crashed.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on August 26, 2007, 07:55:26 pm
Dear Qoais:
yemen is between Libya(Africa) and Asia too..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 26, 2007, 10:02:06 pm
All rightie then Julia, will you do me a favor?  will you take a shot in Google earth ( you do have it right?) with a marker showing 2 things.  One, show the mountain that is called Atlas that Blue Hue is referring to, and mark the place where he says the Pillar of Heracles was (not Gibralter) and I will try to do a work up on this theory, and compare it to some other stuff.  I don't have time to go over Blue Hue's notes right now (I'm still trying to get this car done and everything is going wrong all of a sudden) but if you could just post me a picture with those two locations marked, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
Q


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on August 26, 2007, 10:18:06 pm
You didnt do the car yet?? Qoais..You are being lazy. :D By the way I dont even know (I noticed now) What the name "Qoais" means.I thought it is in the greek mythology but I couldnt find It ,Dear qoais, As if I have lots of Time. :DBut, Ill look for it for you today The mount Atlas..Bluehue is right about the story of Garden of Eden..It is either In Aden or like Titeia saidit si in SudanBecause those myths even exist in Indian mythology(This s another prove that Indo-Aryan people originated from Egypt) I didnt see your message before because.I was watching TV and I forgot to log out.I wasnt here..sorry
Greetings with love and peace


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on August 26, 2007, 11:05:36 pm
Dear Qoais: I found several pages along this:
In every page mount Atlas is in Africa(libya) presumably Perseus1 wanted to enter in atlas`garden of hesperides, Atlas didnt allow him, so perseus 1  showed him medusas head he became stone(Atlas mount)..
There are many pages of myths
here is one:
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/ThreeAncestors.html
So, There must be two Atlas es.because one of them is descendent of Tantalus..either descendent of tantalus went to  Africa or thereare two atlases..
the trojans are alsodescendent of Atlas.
In the same page:
--------------------------------------------------------

The Trojans

The Trojans were also descendants of Atlas. Dardanus 1, son of Electra 3, daughter of Atlas, is at the beginning of the house of Troy, for Dardanus 1 is father of Erichthonius 1, father of Tros 1 (after whom the Trojans are called), father of Ilus 2 (founder of Ilium, that is, Troy), father of Laomedon 1, father of Priam 1, who was king when the city was destroyed.
-------------------------------------------------------------

So, I dont know any,ore, thats why I am so confused abouth this Atlantis issue because City of Troy(The maquet of city) looks exactly like ATlantis.Montexano says it was in Spain..how come ATlas es descendents could be in troy?? SO, in this case theTrojans must came from Spain??But Troy was destroyed About 2000BC or something.I am really confused.This myths has a lot of origins.because under the names There is yapetus also..
Either this real Atlantis was in the west(spain or north Africa)And The people from there came to Anatolia(could be Etruscans) or this is the same thing in the Bible, just corropted and mixed up with the European stories..because the names in the greek myths are similar to middle eastern myths.Like I said Greeks are a Mix up people of sons of Yaphet and the original inhabitants of old greece(pelasgians)) and plus phoenicans..And all those myths are mixed up and we see the result.thas why I dont belive in Plato.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 27, 2007, 12:25:54 am
Hi Julia,
I know, I was  very confused about Atlantis also, (still am) but there are some things that can be ruled out, while others need a lot of research.  I find that the more I study, the more I find there are different interpretations to things.  Not just WHAT Plato said, but how he said it, that certain things don't mean the same thing today, etc.  AND, as for all those TRIBES and HOUSES, and KINGS, I just can't grasp it all ;D

For instance, somewhere in Plato, he says something about "from these islands you can get to the real continent" or something like that.  So.....we right away jump to the conclusion that you HAD to use these islands to get to the continent.  But maybe, that isn't it at all. Maybe it was just ANOTHER way to get to the continent.  Like a short cut, if you're travelling by boat.  Then, there is the bit about "nesos".  We know all the things "nesos could mean, but we also have an "island" of land, being created by rivers on all it's boudaries such as Meroe.  And this could be what Plato meant also, but who knows for sure?  Seems to me, Plato was just too ambiguous for the story to be real.  I mean, here's a guy that's highly intelligent, super educated, is a philosopher etc., and yet he can't be more specific in the details of his story.  Perhaps he just was telling a story of his ideal state afterall.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have a lot of faith in Edgar Cayce, I think I would decide in favor of Atlantis never having existed :P



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on August 27, 2007, 07:04:36 am
 Qoais  qoute-If it wasn't for the fact that I have a lot of faith in Edgar Cayce, I think I would decide in favor of Atlantis never having existed.


I to have a lot of faith in Cayce I was raised on his readings, and even knew a women that had a reading by him ,however to understand Cayce`s Atlantis  one has to understand Cayce , to him Atlantis was the whole world`s spirituality of the atlas ( the world) from its beginnings to well into the future.


reading364-3  he talks of war like influences, not like others in the universe.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 27, 2007, 09:46:23 am
Hi Docyabut
If Atlantis was a "spirituality" instead of a place, then the A.R.E. is spending a lot of money looking for something that isn't tangible.

Cayce said that when Atlantis broke up (this obviously being a real place) some of the Atlanteans went to Egypt and some to the western world.  In a lot of his readings he says "in the Atlantean land when..."  or "in Egypt when..."    He is referring to places.  He talks about the two different mind sets, the Sons of Belial and the Sons of Light.

Cayce said Atlantis would rise again and to look off the coast of Bimini.  Again, he is referring to a place.

My Cayce books seem to have gone missing so I can't look up the reading you quote, unless you can refer me to it on-line somewhere.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 10:06:28 am





IT'S ALL HERE:




E.C. THE SLEEPING PROPHET
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,366.0.html


E.C.'s COMPLETE ATLANTIS READINGS:
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,2125.0.html


E.C.'s STORY OF ATLANTIS
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,367.0.html


THE THREE HALLS OF RECORDS
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,630.0.html


E.C. - MIGRATION FROM ATLANTIS
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,422.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 27, 2007, 10:11:12 am
Thanks Bianca, I'll check it out :)

Now, here's a question posted by someone else, somewhere else.

Regarding the ancient maps, eg: Piri Reis, if he was copying from ancient maps, and could show that Antartica existed (which supposedly was not covered in ice - how long ago?) why does the map not show the location of Atlantis?

Don't the scientists say that the south pole was ice free 10,000 years ago?  If so, then Atlantis still existed when the south was free of ice and should be on the map as well.

If it IS on the map, which present country was then Atlantis?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 27, 2007, 10:51:13 am
Edgar Cayce 364.3

3. The position as the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other. There are some protruding portions within this that must have at one time or another been a portion of this great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas, and a portion of same that may be seen in the present - if the geological survey would be made in some of these - especially, or notably, in Bimini and in the Gulf Stream through this vicinity, these may be even yet determined.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on August 27, 2007, 11:17:40 am
Well, I dont believe Edgar Cayce also.I think he was aFraud.may be he learned somehow those things(from urantia book etc) and he popped up as a prophet.
They say there was some secret teachings of the free masons about Atlantis.may be this all kept as a secret and now coming out.I think Bluehue learned from them too.It must be some book belongs to the freemasons kept as a secret, and now they explain everything slowly.(Zitchin is one of them) because he cannot readsumerian texts.he must have learnedall those things from somewhere else.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Titiea on August 27, 2007, 12:38:55 pm
Dear Qoais,

You said :
Quote
One, show the mountain that is called Atlas that Blue Hue is referring to, and mark the place where he says the Pillar of Heracles was (not Gibralter)

Please find below the situation of Ras Dejen  = Atlas in Ethiopia Semien mountains. I think these mountains were the Herakles Pillars, as they are not far from the Straits of Bab-el-Mandeb at the exit of Red Sea opening in the Indian Ocean.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a45/tetisarah/MountDejen.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on August 27, 2007, 02:47:53 pm
You see, Qoais the complete reading isnt there.


In the manner of living ,in the manner of the moral of the social of the religious life of these people : there classes excited much in the same order : yet the warlike influence did not excist in the people as a people as it did in the other portions of the universe.

 364-3 2/ 16/32


 they were not warlike as in the story of Plato






Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 02:56:53 pm

Here you go,Doc:






INDEX OF READING 364-3

Archaeology:Atlantis 1 3
Attitudes & Emotions:Earth Sojourns:Atlantis 2
       :Pacifism: 6
Earth Changes:Atlantis 3
Lands:West Indies:Bahamas:Bimini 3
Mind:Thought Forms:Atlantis 5
Names:People Mentioned:Amilius 5
       :Ram 5
Prehistory:Records Preserved 5
Races:Red:Atlantis 5
Reincarnation:Atlantis 5
       :Groups 5
Research Potential 3
Sex:Creation 5
Time:Prehistory:Atlantis 5
WORK:E.C.:LECTURES:ATLANTIS 
World Affairs:Peace:Atlantis






BACKGROUND OF READING 364-3

B1. Subject of 364-3 - "Atlantis."

B2. See 364-1 and 364-2.



REPORT OF READING 364-3

R1. 2/16/32, 3:50 P.M. See 364-4, a continuation of information
re. Atlantis, being sought as the basis for EC's lecture
before the Norfolk Groups of A.R.E. on 2/19/32. [See
364-6, Par. R3.]

R2. GD's note: In 364-3 re Par. 5 reference to Ram entering
India it might be pertinent to study East Indian lore. In
1910 a book entitled RAMA AND MOSES, The Aryan Cycle and The
Mission of Israel, by Edouard Schure', Translated by F.
Rothwell, B.A., was published by Wm. Rider & Son, Ltd.,
London, England. On page 27 a young priest named Ram is
mentioned. Some of the chapter headings are: The Human
Races and the Origins of Religion, The Mission of Rama ...,
The Vedic Religion, etc.

R3. See Source File Key #440-5 for Sunday, March 19, 1934 New
York American article on F.A. Mitchell-Hedges expedition to
Central America sponsored by the British Museum, where later
he claimed to have found an Atlantean artifact, a crystal
skull. His daughter, Miss Mitchell-Hedges from Canada owns
the artifact. See also March, 1970 A.R.E. News with photo.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 02:58:22 pm





TEXT OF READING 364-3

This psychic reading given by Edgar Cayce at his office, 105th St. & Ocean, Virginia Beach, Va., this 16th day of February, 1932, in accordance with request made by those present.

P R E S E N T

Edgar Cayce; Gertrude Cayce, Conductor; Gladys Davis, Steno. Mildred Davis, Gray Salter, Hugh Lynn and L. B. Cayce.

R E A D I N G

Time of Reading 11:40 A. M. Eastern Standard Time. (Suggestion to continue information on Atlantis)

1. EC: Yes, we have the subject and those conditions. As has been said, much data has been received from time to time through psychic forces as respecting conditions in or through the period, or ages, of this continent's existence. That the continent existed is being proven as a fact.

2. Then, what took place during the period, or periods, when it was being broken up? What became of the inhabitants? What was the character of their civilization? Are there any evidences of those, or any portion of, the inhabitants' escape? The POSITION of the continent, and the like, MUST be of interest to peoples in the present day, if either by inference that individuals are being born into the earth plane to develop in the present, or are people being guided in their spiritual interpretation of individuals' lives or developments BY the spirits of those who inhabited such a continent. In either case, if these be true, they ARE WIELDING - and are to wield - an influence upon the happenings of the present day world.

3. The position as the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other. There are some protruding portions within this that must have at one time or another been a portion of this great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas, and a portion of same that may be seen in the present - if the geological survey would be made in some of these - especially, or notably, in Bimini and in the Gulf Stream through this vicinity, these may be even yet determined.

4. What, then, are the character of the peoples? To give any proper conception, may we follow the line of a group, or an individual line, through this continent's existence - and gain from same something of their character, their physiognomy, and their spiritual and physical development.

5. In the period, then - some hundred, some ninety-eight thousand years before the entry of Ram into India [See 364-3, Par. R2] - there lived in this land of Atlantis one Amilius [?], who had first NOTED that of the separations of the beings as inhabited that portion of the earth's sphere or plane of those peoples into male and female as separate entities, or individuals. As to their forms in the physical sense, these were much RATHER of the nature of THOUGHT FORMS, or able to push out OF THEMSELVES in that direction in which its development took shape in thought - much in the way and manner as the amoeba would in the waters of a stagnant bay, or lake, in the present. As these took form, by the gratifying of their own desire for that as builded or added to the material conditions, they became hardened or set - much in the form of the existent human body of the day, with that of color as partook of its surroundings much in the manner as the chameleon in the present. Hence coming into that form as the red, or the mixture peoples - or colors; known then later by the associations as the RED race. These, then, able to use IN their gradual development all the forces as were manifest in their individual surroundings, passing through those periods of developments as has been followed more closely in that of the yellow, the black, or the white races, in other portions of the world; yet with their immediate surroundings, with the facilities for the developments, these became much speedier in this particular portion of the globe than in others - and while the destruction of this continent and the peoples are far beyond any of that as has been kept as an absolute record, that record in the rocks still remains - as has that influence OF those peoples in that life of those peoples to whom those that did escape during the periods of destruction make or influence the lives of those peoples TO whom they came. As they MAY in the present, either through the direct influence of being regenerated, or re-incarnated into the earth, or through that of the MENTAL application on through the influences as may be had upon thought OF individuals or groups by speaking from that environ.

6. In the MANNER of living, in the manner of the moral, of the social, of the religious life of these peoples: There, classes existed much in the same order as existed among others; yet the like of the warlike INFLUENCE did NOT exist in the peoples - AS a people - as it did in the OTHER portions of the universe.

7. To be continued.

Copy to Self
" " File
" " Ass'n


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 03:00:49 pm





BACKGROUND OF READING 364-4

B1. Subject of 364-4 - "The Lost Continent of Atlantis."

B2. See 364-1 through 364-3.



REPORT OF READING 364-6

R1. 2/19/32 EC gave a talk before the Norfolk Groups of A.R.E.
based on the information in readings 364-1 through 364-6.
[See Par. R3 below.]

R2. 4/5/32 Further information was sought on the subject.
See 364-7.

R3. 10/15/94 JT's note: Mr. Cayce gave a talk to the Norfolk
Study Groups on Atlantis on February 19, 1932. To date,
the following (published in the October 1932 BULLETIN) is
the only record of that talk. If a copy of the original
lecture in its entirety is found we will include it here.

VOL. I - No. 2 OCTOBER, 1932




B U L L E T I N

ASSOCIATION FOR RESEARCH AND ENLIGHTENMENT, INC.,
Virginia Beach, Virginia

THE LOST CONTINENT OF ATLANTIS

Atlantis has furnished the background for much speculation
and many theories. Until lately the few, authentic
references have not been sufficient to warrant a scientific
approach to the subject. A growing interest has been
manifest within the last few years by men of prominence. A
recent series of radio talks by a well known scientist has
added strength to the increasingly popular belief that this
continent did exist. Considerable has been written
regarding Atlantis from data psychically received. Of
course, this is of little importance to the average
individual unless they are personally convinced that the
source of such data is accurate and worth considering. For
the benefit of those who wish to view a wider scope of the
information received through Mr. Edgar Cayce, we present
the following:

"The position as the continent Atlantis occupied, is that
as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand and the
Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost
civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco to
the east and British Honduras, Yucatan and America to the
west. There are some protruding portions within this that
must have at one time or another been a portion of this
great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas,
especially in Bimini, would, upon geological investigation,
show the most pronounced traces of the destroyed
civilization." 210-C-A [364-3] (2/16/32)

Further data discloses that Atlantian history covered a
period of 200,000 years, as we would measure time today.
During this period there were many geographical changes in
the earth's surface that directly affected this continent.
The most notable of these were: The sinking of Lemuria in
the South Pacific at the time the poles shifted; the
destruction of the area now known as the Sargasso Sea; and
the final destruction. In size, this country was originally
about that of Europe including European Russia. After the
second great upheaval it was broken up into a group of large
islands, Poseidia, Aryan, and Og.

Before the final destruction, some ten thousand B.C., many
of the inhabitants migrated to adjoining countries. The
Inca and Aztec were descendants of the resulting mixtures,
as were the American Indians, though a little farther
removed from direct descent. Archaeological work will
doubtless uncover within the next few years evidences of
this direct connection with the ancient home of the red
race.

(If you are interested in further data of this or kindred
subjects, let us hear from you that we may treat this type
of information more fully in subsequent Bulletins



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 03:25:59 pm




Well, doc, this seems to be the part to which you are referring:




6. In the MANNER of living, in the manner of the moral, of the social, of the religious life of these

peoples: There, classes existed much in the same order as existed among others; yet the like of the

warlike INFLUENCE did NOT exist in the peoples - AS a people - as it did in the OTHER portions of the

universe.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on August 27, 2007, 06:44:44 pm



That's remarkable:


He said UNIVERSE, not EARTH......


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on August 27, 2007, 07:46:58 pm
My point excactly Bianca2001  to understand Cayce `s Atlantis, one has to understand Cayce. ;)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on August 27, 2007, 08:14:37 pm
So you see it was a spirituality of a people and in Plato`s Atlantis ( Tartesso )was a rich and peaceful society who were not war like until invloved in a war .


For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, and well-affectioned towards the god, whose seed they were; for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness with wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another. They despised everything but virtue, caring little for their present state of life, and thinking lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which seemed only a burden to them; neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control; but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another, whereas by too great regard and respect for them, they are lost and friendship with them. By such reflections and by the continuance in them of a divine nature, the qualities which we have described grew and increased among them; but when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honourable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the centre of the world, beholds all created things. And when he had called them together, he spake as follows-* The rest of the Dialogue of Critias has been lost.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on August 28, 2007, 01:50:55 am
Docyabut, I've lost track of what your point is. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on August 28, 2007, 09:12:01 am
Qoais my point is that Cayce`s Atlantis was a history of man `s sprituality  journey of the Atlas or the world through time,  from its beginnings to well into the future ,where as Plato`s atlantis was of a time when man knew only part of that  journey of  history of the atlas or of the world.Atlas held up the mapping of the world ,where as the atlantians are the peoples of that world.



 The position as the continent Atlantis  (  the atlas )  occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other. There are some protruding portions within this that must have at one time or another been a portion of this great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas, and a portion of same that may be seen in the present - if the geological survey would be made in some of these - especially, or notably, in Bimini and in the Gulf Stream through this vicinity, these may be even yet determined.


 He is saying there are a lot of lost peoples or atlantians that once occupied these places.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on August 28, 2007, 04:28:20 pm
Dear Qoais,

You said :
Quote
One, show the mountain that is called Atlas that Blue Hue is referring to, and mark the place where he says the Pillar of Heracles was (not Gibralter)

Please find below the situation of Ras Dejen  = Atlas in Ethiopia Semien mountains. I think these mountains were the Herakles Pillars, as they are not far from the Straits of Bab-el-Mandeb at the exit of Red Sea opening in the Indian Ocean.

MY SINCERE APOLOGIES, Ladies JULIA, QOAIS & TITEIA,

THE MOUNTAIN OF ATLAS is in ADEN atlas also means Kingdom of Ad(=- ADEN as in the KORANIC land-of- AD.)

My guess is that the Pillars of Heracles refer to a manmade pillared Temple (of Poseidon.)on the central island of the extinct ADEN CRATER

I have written so much that I lost track of my replies, indeed there are several supposed Locations for Heracles-two- PILLARS . The socalled ABBAS Mountains(= HABESH !) in Ethiopia for exsample.
When I mentioned AZANIA the other day " JULIA ' by accident thought that I had mentioned TAN-ZANIA, but now I see what the problem was.

The french-Somali-Part of Ethiopia was once names AZANIA and when Bishop Frumentius converted the then KING of Ethiopia to Orthodox- Christianity in 435 AD his name was AZANIAS
the british half of Somalia was once named PUNTA-Land or Barbaria and we now know that PLATO's AZAES was Azania.

For your information:

The 4 PILLARS of Chronos was not a physical Pillar but a Central geographic place in ADEN used as an astronomical Observatorium. The indian Mandala temples and the Muslim Mosk  are actually copies of the Heavenly/ celestial constellations above that place.  mandala Temples with a 5-th central -Dome and with 4 Pillars are an example of a similar TEMPEL- of- Poseidon in ( Little-)ADEN. whitch was a Kailassa or Elephant temple.

The 4 Pillars or winddial Corners of the World were also represented by Elephants thus the 4 winds Boares Zephyr etc were originally pictured as flying White Elephants before 'media-Shortening made them into Greek angels or just puffing Clouds with a face.  the wind-blowing cherubs are actually representing an Elephant in Mediashortening Style
So in a sence an Elephant is one of the four " PILLARS'  I suppose that the Two Pillars of Heracles were actually TWO-SETS of TWO Pillars but that notion withered away in  the course of time

Pillars as geographical objects  are actually the same as Isles an Isle is also  pillared court or gangwayand if we speak of the Isles of Atlantis we actually talk about Coastal Promotories that extent as zocalled' Pillars'from the Seashore thus a Pillar ( or Atlantic Isle ) must be equated with a promotory/ Isthmus or a raised-guyot- islandn r a Tombolo, not a freestanding Mountain as in Gibraltar

The 1000 pillars of Irem or IMRAM near Aden means  indeed an Island realm.  The Gardxen of EDEN consisted of Trees which were also called  a-  PILLAR- Garden.

Sincerely  :(  " BlueHue " :(   dd 28 Aug. 2007


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on September 08, 2007, 01:50:20 am
Well, Blue Hue,

I'm seeing where there is logic in your explanation, although it took me a long time to figure out just what you were saying. 

Now if what you are saying is true, especially about the spelling errors, in particular ATHE and At, that's a starting point all right.  It does make sense that Plato would not use Latin.

Have you researched any archeological works in the area?  Has anything been recorded as being found that would indicate the proper age bracket, or anything unusual that would give notice to the scientific community that they should search in that area?

I don't know if you're reading other threads in this forum, but there is quite a bit of activity going on around the world, in the search for Atlantis, although it seems that some finds are being "protected" by certain governments.  Therefore, knowledge is being kept from the general public and even some researchers are finding it difficult to search certain areas.

I'm not sure that I'd agree that India was part of Atlantis.  From the Vedas, it would almost seem that India was the enemy of Atlantis and they fought with nuclear weapons.  The areas in the world with vitrified sand ( caused by extreme high heat) that is "pure" (in other words, not contaminated with debris from an asteroid impact) are India, Arabia, Libya and Egypt.  I believe there is some in South America also.  So basically, this kind of indicates that the "war" was in a more or less centralized area, from Libya to India and the vitrified sand in S. America is the odd man out. (so to speak).  It's possible the war in India was more or less between two different factions, but they did have flying machines and they do describe terrible weapons. 

If it's true, that the Great Pyramid was once zapped with one of these weapons, and repaired with man-made blocks, it's possible that the remnants of atlantis had based themselves in Libya and were fighting from there.

Generalizations on my part of course, but I like putting little bits and pieces together to see if they make a bigger picture.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on September 18, 2007, 02:57:19 pm
 :'( ATLANTIS was divided in THREE parts the other 7 were just OCCICE-Titles one of these 3 parts was INDIA-MINOR denoting present 'india'.  ;D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 02:17:06 pm
For some time now, some of us have been using Dr. Kuhne's thread for discussions on interpretations of the ancient Greek, and I would like to move that discussion here so as not to offend anyone.  As I've said before, I find Blue Hue's theory quite feasible, and would like to work on it a bit, and I also find a few other things totally facinating as well, such as Bianca's work on the history of the Black people and how they traveled the oceans 75,000 years ago.  The theory of Atlantis in Greenland - or at least a very early civilization is most interesting as well, and we now have someone on this forum who is working on that. 

Whatever "war" Plato is talking about, I am sort of thinking was not the big deal he makes of it, other than to brag up the Athenians.  It seems to me, if we look at the much larger picture, of people living in the North 75,000 years ago (proof having now been discovered since the Bok Saga) and we have ocean travel by the blacks that long ago, it would seem that this war of Platos WAS a local one and he obviously knew nothing of the bigger picture either.  Now, the Egyptians may have known a lot more than they told Solon, but Solon was only interested in Greek history, so it seems.  If the war WAS a more local one, then Blue Hue's theory of the location of Atlantis makes sense.  I know the Atlanteans had a large empire, so perhaps this was a small faction of that Empire that was going to expand it.  Not all of the empire sunk, only a portion thereof which blocked passage to the ocean.  The Red Sea was also important to the Egyptians and it's quite possible the priest meant THAT passage was blocked, not the passage in the Med.

Nikas has said that we don't understand the nuances of the ancient Greek, so I'm trying to imagine what a conversation between the two learned men - the priest and Solon - would have been like.  Now if the time line of this war WAS 10,000 years ago, then the priest was using the Pillars of Hercules as a description of something, that Solon would understand.  It was not necessarily referencing what we NOW call the Pillars of Hercules, as obviously it was called something else 10,000 years ago, but since Plato likely wouldn't have understood the description if given in ancient Egyptian, the priest made a comparison so Plato could picture in his mind, what the priest was talking about.  The priest is talking about people within and without the Pillars.  To me, this whole story is quite localized and the priest is talking about a demarcation line between the peoples who fought the war.  I personally think it was a more local war, as to mount an attack from Gibralter on Greece and Egypt is totally illogical.  However, the Atlanteans were obviously established for a long time, likely had trade and ports and businesses in Egypt as well as Libya and even Italy, then the takeover would have been feasable.    If the Atlanteans WERE south of Egypt already, and in Arabia, they could sail their troops up the Red Sea and could also sail ships from their Med. coast to Greece.  This makes sense.
As for the description of this "City", it could well be that it was on the coast of the Red Sea.  When we think "island" we associate this with a small piece of land in a large body of water, but an island is "land surounded on all sides by water".  An island can be inland, surrounded by rivers.  I understand that the coast lines of the Red Sea are mountainous and volcanic.  The Amazons attacked their neighbors, the Atlanteans, and proceeded thru Libya to Egypt.  This makes sense if the Amazons lived on an inland island, south of Egypt, first attacking the Atlanteans who would be north of them, and then thru Libya which would be south of Egypt but north of the Atlanteans, and then Egypt itself, where the Amazon queen made friends with the Pharoah.

When the priest said "this sea" is only a harbour, he could well have meant the Red Sea and not the Med. 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 02:37:34 pm
Since Plato was the only one to use the word Atlantis, it does seem that this is a corruption of some other word or words.  Perhaps it happened in the interpretations, and perhaps, because the story was a verbal one, each person pronounced this name differently and by the time Plato heard it, he wrote it as he understood it to be pronounced.  Or he wrote it in a way that it's name meant what he thought the original explantion meant.  But since we don't know what Plato thought it meant, we don't know why he wrote it that way.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: docyabut on October 17, 2007, 05:40:35 pm
No matter which way, there is nothing in history that would suggest a one culture had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits.

A question, what other kingdoms in the west would have been that powerful before 600bc besides the kingdom of Tartesso that rule all of southern Spain? I don`nt see any another united force of the west or the east that would have been that big. There were many other tribes and colonies according to greek history, but not under one united kingdom that ruled such a  vast area


Maybe there was a  tartessian war in the eariler greek dark ages that was never recorded, besides  geryon `s war


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geryon


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 05:49:39 pm
Quote
No matter which way, there is nothing in history that would suggest a one culture had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits.

Well then Docyabut, I would say that Plato made the whole thing up because as much as you'd like to believe Tartessos was Atlantis, the Tartessians didn't have that kind of power either and it's only Plato who has said so.  You admit that the Greeks had lost their history and according to the Egyptian priest, lost it several times.  Why then, are you trying to quote the little bit they DO remember instead of using the testimony of the ancient priest who had more knowledge?  The Greeks knew their history farther back that 600 for heaven's sake.  Solon LIVED from 638 to 558.  If this Atlantean war had taken place in 600 BC Solon would have been in the middle of it.  Therefore, I beleive the priest WAS referring to 9000 years before, not a mere 1000.  Solon had already quoted Greek history farther back that a 1000 years, yet the priest said this was babyhood compared to what had happened much farther back.

Quote
There were many other tribes and colonies according to greek history, but not under one united kingdom that ruled such a  vast area

Why would you want to refer to Greek history when admittedly, they had LOST their history?  THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.  The priest is telling Solon that this story was way older than the history the Greeks could remember.  That they knew nothing of ANCIENT history.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on October 17, 2007, 07:38:55 pm
y do u even waste your time speaking to her


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 08:15:27 pm
 :D  Sometimes, I just like beating my head against a brick wall because it feels so good when I quit. :D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 17, 2007, 08:45:13 pm
Qoais,  You are not alone in saying "I would say that Plato made the whole thing up .."  Professor Olof Rudbeck said the same thing in the 1670s in his Swedish tome ATLANTICA.  He was an expert in ancient languages and after long study came to the conclusion that Plato had made up the whole story as a metaphor to support a complicated theme he had been working on, but died before he presented the whole thesis....

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,937.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 09:21:58 pm
Hi Rocky
I actually thought that a long time ago, but it's still fun to play with theories to see if they CAN work after all.  Basically, the two following quotes pretty much state that they're all acting.  Performing.

Quote
The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians.

Quote
And now, friend Critias, I will announce to you the judgment of the theatre. They are of opinion that the last performer was wonderfully successful, and that you will need a great deal of indulgence before you will be able to take his place.

T'is "astonishing" how Plato's story perfectly fits with Socrates ideas.  Talk about sucking up to your teacher! ;D

Quote
I have told you briefly, Socrates, what the aged Critias heard from Solon and related to us. And when you were speaking yesterday about your city and citizens, the tale which I have just been repeating to you came into my mind, and I remarked with astonishment how, by some mysterious coincidence, you agreed in almost every particular with the narrative of Solon; but I did not like to speak at the moment. For a long time had elapsed, and I had forgotten too much; I thought that I must first of all run over the narrative in my own mind, and then I would speak.


Mysterious indeed how Socrates' story could match Solon's almost point for point, when supposedly Socrates had not read Solon's story.  It was kept in the family. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 17, 2007, 09:35:05 pm
Qoais,

You really should get ahold of FINDING ATLANTIS, about Olof Rudbeck.  An amazing book.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 09:36:44 pm
Altho some of us find Docyabut annoying because she keeps repeating the same thing over and over, and is fixated on GM and Tartessos, she has- finally - made a most significant contribution of logic in her most recent statement:

And I quote:

Quote
No matter which way, there is nothing in history  that would suggest a one culture had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia.

That is of course if we accept that Gibralter is the location of the Pillars of Heracles.  So .................if all you learned people agree with that statement, that there IS NOTHING IN HISTORY to substantiate Plato's story, why are we looking for Atlantis?  Because afterall, it is ONLY Plato's story that says "a one culture" namely the Atlanteans, had this control.

We have seen that type of control SINCE then, with the Persians, Alex. the G. the Romans etc.  But like the quote above "NOTHING IN HISTORY" before that.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 09:39:10 pm
Thanks Rocky, I have the book.  I can't believe how anyone could have thought that man was mad.  We need more like him today.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 17, 2007, 09:57:30 pm





QUOTE:


"So .................if all you learned people agree with that statement, that there IS NOTHING IN HISTORY to substantiate Plato's story, why are we looking for Atlantis?  Because afterall, it is ONLY Plato's story that says "a one culture" namely the Atlanteans, had this control."


Well, Q, not all of us are obsessed with the translation of Plato, like Georgeous and Nikkas.

We are most interested in what is being discovered by actual people who are OUT of their
armchairs and DIVING and DIGGING in various parts of the Ocean and Las Marismas (for one).

Nothing is going to be stamped 'Made in Atlantis", no canals or circles will be found.  But there
is plenty of evidence that there was habitation in the the Atlantic Ocean, in the Caribbean, in
the North Sea and several other underwater places. 

Whether it was called ATLANTIS  or not, it does not matter, as I don't feel that, whomever these
people were, they called themselves ATLANTEANS.

As a matter of fact, "Atlantis" has been found, I feel.  The powers that be won't let us in on it.
So, we'll just have to wait for overwhelming evidence to shut up the critics.......

And then, we'll be grateful to Plato for setting us on a quest for our long forgotten PAST, no
matter how NESOS translates.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 10:08:44 pm
Hear Hear Bianca - I've said almost the same thing in other posts.  No matter what the translations turn out to be, there is no other supporting documentation yet found for Plato's Atlantis.

I do feel he deserves credit for being the catalyst that prompted people to go out and search the world, and for one, am very thankful for the discoveries to date.  History is becoming alive - being re-lived thru these investigations, and our data banks are being filled with wonderful information that would, at one time, be kept hidden or scoffed at.  No doubt, there is a lot that has been discovered and is still being kept hidden, but everything in it's time.  Like it says in the Desiderata - "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should".


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 17, 2007, 10:22:38 pm
Just for the hell of it, for those of the younger generations who do not know the Desiderata, it is a wonderous piece of work, that applies to all times and all ages:


Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in
silence.  As far as possible, without
surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and
listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant;
they too, have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexations to the spirit.  If you
compare yourself with others, you may
become vain or bitter, for always there will be
greater and lesser persons than yourself.

enjoy your achievements as well as your
plans.  Keep interested in your own career,
however humble; it is a real possession in
the changing fortunes of time.  Exercise caution
in your business affairs, for the world is full
of trickery.  But let this not blind you to what
virtue there is; many persons strive for high
ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.  Especially do not feign
affection.  Neither be cynical about love; for
in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in
sudden misfortune.  But do not distress yourself
with dark imaginings.  Many fears
are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle
with yourself.  You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars; you have
a right to be here.  And whether or not it is
clear to you, no doubt the universe is
unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever
you conceive Him to be.  And whatever your
labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world. 
Be careful.  Strive to be happy.

Anonymous
Found in an old Saint Paul's Church, Baltimore



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 17, 2007, 10:31:04 pm


HEAR, HEAR.....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 18, 2007, 12:22:29 am
Thanks Rocky, I have the book.  I can't believe how anyone could have thought that man was mad.  We need more like him today.

Yeah!  It really is unfortunate that the author was bent toward that idea.... If he knew about the Bock family saga and about Felice Vinci's research of the past decade, culminating in his book HOMER IN THE BALTIC, he would never have had that attitude.  Both support much of Rudbeck's work.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 12:26:29 am
One hell of a lot more logic than Plato's Atlantis, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 12:51:28 am
If we consider all the discoveries made so far, all the research that's been done by those out there doing the dirty work, and if we also consider the writings of people like the Tibetan Lama, Robsang Lampa, then how can we NOT conclude that there were ancient civilizations at least 75,000 to 100,000 years ago?  Did they call themselves Atlanteans?  Probably not.  That was Plato's word and how he derived it is anyone's guess.  It doesn't seem to mean anything to anyone else. 

For some reason, and I have no explanation for this, I have always thought Atlantis meant land of water.  My own psychic interpretation I suppose.  In Lampa's book, he tells about viewing the Akashic records thru astral travelling.  He tells about the TWO civilizations that existed before the earth had even finished developing, and how they rose to technological heights, and with that technology, destroyed each other, until there were only remnants of terrified, trembling rag-tag people left hiding in caves and tunnels, and that over centuries began the earth's population all over again.  He talks about how these ancient people had "floating cities" (Our cruise ships) that sailed back and forth between the continents.  He says that when this catastrophic war took place, it was over in moments, and that the results were terrible to behold.  The mountains sunk, the land heaved, and then did it all over again.  He says that since then, "Atlantis" is under Tibet. 

Now he either used Atlantis as a reference knowing that people are facinated with that story and it's a word coined by Plato to mean SOMETHING and that something we associate with a sunken civilization, OR my other conjecture is that this learned Egyptian priest was also of the training of the Tibetan monks, and had viewed the Akashic records as did Edgar Cayce.  Since we do not know if Plato coined the word, or if Solon did, or if it was the actual word used by the priest, it seems a little more than co-incidence that the only people who speak as tho there really was such a place, are what we call "psychics".  Altho I tend to think that the priest and Lamas were extremely well educated in these spiritual matters.  Edgar Cayce was given the gift.  Like Cayce said, you don't GO to heaven, you GROW to heaven.  How else but with higher training of the mind?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 01:15:11 am
There are only 3 people who speak with assertiveness about a place called Atlantis and all of them speak of this place existing far back in time.

Two of these people are highly trained in the powers of the mind, the other was given the ability of an adept, as a gift. That was Edgar Cayce.

The other two are the learned Egyptian priest who told Solon the story, and Robsang Lampa, the Tibetan Lama who trained for years, as did no doubt the Egyptian priest. (the Great Pyramid, was, afterall, supposedly only for those iniates who had made the grade of Thoth's teachings which was about astral travel, etc.)

Two of the three we understand to have read the Akashic records. I am assuming the third one did also.

Because the priest had no words to describe what he might have seen in the Akashic records, could not describe the great ships or the nuclear weapons etc., he was reduced to calling this great civilization "a great power". Robsang Lampa did not know how to describe it either as he had never left his "monastery" or whatever they call places that Lamas train, until he was older. He did not even know that there were "large carts with wheels, drawn by horses that transported people around" - carriages. Edgar Cayce could describe 'Atomic" devastation but not "nuclear" devastation.

Yet all three of these people talk about this Atlantis civilization. (I'm not giving Plato credit because it wasn't his story)

If these three people are telling what they saw in the Akashic records, then Atlantis existed but it existed over half the globe and it existed about 100,000 years ago. Maybe more. I think Plato added the bit about this war business for entertainment, and didn't bother mentioning how this information about a society that supposedly existed "9,000" years ago would be remembered by ANYONE on earth. They'd only know about it if they were able to "see" the past thru the Akashic records.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 01:51:34 am
We have the Bok Saga which tells about a history kept for 75,000 years but not told to the public until the "80's.  Why?  Because we would not accept it.  Even now, in this modern, forward-thinking society, we cannot accept without fear for some reason, that a society more advanced than ours, existed that far back and we can find no trace.  How can there be traces when everything was vaporized and then sunken and buried under thousands of feet of rock and ocean?

It's kind of like re-incarnation.  We don't remember our past lives because the burden would be too much to bear. 

We say we believe in God, but have no understanding of that concept.  The human mind can't grasp the idea of infinity.  Personally, I think everyone should be trained in the methods of the Lamas.  They live a simple life, taking only what they need and putting back what they can.  Their time is spent in raising their consciousness thru higher and higher levels of "spiritual enlightenment".  Some would call this psychic training, but it goes way beyond that.  It's my understanding that Thoth taught this type of training also and the student who made it to the higher levels was made priest.  Therefore, I assume the priest who told Solon the story was an adept and had read the Akashic records. 

I don't doubt that there is truth in Plato's story as he claims.  But it's not the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on October 18, 2007, 06:48:41 am

It's kind of like re-incarnation.  We don't remember our past lives because the burden would be too much to bear. 


No,

actually,  you don't remember it because you never had a past life.

Qoais,  your writings are a bit like the bible and modern science,  a little bit of truth and a lot of garbage.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 10:59:39 am
Thank you Your Majesty, you're always so broad minded and complimentary.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on October 18, 2007, 12:05:31 pm
Hi Qoais,

You brought up some very good points, but aren't you being a bit restrictive with the three-people idea.  What about Ignatius Donnelly, what about Philos, what about HPB, what about Steiner, etc.?  I believe all of these individuals spoke with assertiveness--and insight--about Atlantis.

Tom


There are only 3 people who speak with assertiveness about a place called Atlantis and all of them speak of this place existing far back in time.

Two of these people are highly trained in the powers of the mind, the other was given the ability of an adept, as a gift. That was Edgar Cayce.

The other two are the learned Egyptian priest who told Solon the story, and Robsang Lampa, the Tibetan Lama who trained for years, as did no doubt the Egyptian priest. (the Great Pyramid, was, afterall, supposedly only for those iniates who had made the grade of Thoth's teachings which was about astral travel, etc.)

Two of the three we understand to have read the Akashic records. I am assuming the third one did also.

Because the priest had no words to describe what he might have seen in the Akashic records, could not describe the great ships or the nuclear weapons etc., he was reduced to calling this great civilization "a great power". Robsang Lampa did not know how to describe it either as he had never left his "monastery" or whatever they call places that Lamas train, until he was older. He did not even know that there were "large carts with wheels, drawn by horses that transported people around" - carriages. Edgar Cayce could describe 'Atomic" devastation but not "nuclear" devastation.

Yet all three of these people talk about this Atlantis civilization. (I'm not giving Plato credit because it wasn't his story)

If these three people are telling what they saw in the Akashic records, then Atlantis existed but it existed over half the globe and it existed about 100,000 years ago. Maybe more. I think Plato added the bit about this war business for entertainment, and didn't bother mentioning how this information about a society that supposedly existed "9,000" years ago would be remembered by ANYONE on earth. They'd only know about it if they were able to "see" the past thru the Akashic records.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on October 18, 2007, 12:24:06 pm
Thank you Your Majesty, you're always so broad minded and complimentary.

:)

No,  not really.

But,  I am truthful.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 12:26:46 pm
Sorry Tom, don't take everything I say as being written in stone.  

I probably should have said that it's my opinion these 3 people........................

I've read Ignatius Donnelly and did not deduct that he was psychic, but that he was doing physical research.  

I know I do babble as my thoughts come tumbling and my fingers don't keep up.  Some of what I say probably is garbage, because even I will revise what I've thought before.  I'm sure everyone does.  

I couldn't possibly post everything I've ever read, because it's rather extensive, it's just that from all that I've read whether in books, or here in the forum, or elsewhere, it came to me that the explanation of Atlantis was fairly simple.  If a decimal was displaced in Plato's writings, it wasn't to make it 1009 years instead of 9.000.  It was to make it 9,ooo instead of 90,000.  Plato is saying this story is true, but no one would believe it was true if he said 90,000 years ago. (or maybe in his time they would, but the interpreters didn't and changed it)  It's possible they would believe 9,000 as Atalante has explained that this is a number common to the Egyptians for spiritual lifetimes.   However, even at 9,000 years, there would be no one alive that would "remember" Atlantis, or the world tilting on it's axis, stoppintg it's rotation and then revolving in the opposite direction as told by Robsang Lampa.  Nor would there be anything much of a complete history left in tact, written down somewhere altho Lampa does say that he and several other Lamas discovered a cave high in the mountains of Tibet that holds artifacts from this time.  

So, either there were"gods" with extended lifetimes that remembered the past and wrote it down for posterity after the cataclysm, or the information was accessed thru the Akashic records.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I'm not a scientist, I'm not a learned scholar with a doctorate in anything.  I just like to use the brains God gave me to think for myself and try to use logic to figure things out.  I can't quote ancient Egyptian history like Atalante, I can't explain the time-space continuum and the 5th dimension like Wireless Guru.  But I CAN understand these things when they're explained to me.  Then I try to use what I've learned to come to a logical conclusion. 

We've all known, as have people down thru the ages, that there is no substantiating evidence for "Plato's Atlantis".  That's why we're still looking :D  WHY are we still looking?  Because deep down inside we want to believe it existed, and we're afraid of the truth, that it could have existed 90,000 to 100,000 years or more ago.  Georgeous got upset if someone suggested Plato made a mistake.  Ok, I can see that.  Plato was well educated, intelligent and wouldn't likely make any glaring mistakes.  Would Solon?  Not likely there either.  Would the Priest?  Absolutely not - his knowledge was more precious that anything Solon or Plato thought they knew.  So if the story wasn't fabricated, and no one was mistaken, then it had to be the truth.  How to figure it out?

Some people don't believe in the ability of raising one's consciousness to the higher levels of the Lamas.  Some people, like Majeston, don't believe in re-incarnation etc. etc.  To be open minded about a diversity of subjects, allows one to think way outside the box. (I hate that expression). 

The point is  - there is no one alive now, or in Solon's times, that was alive in Atlantis (except thru re-incarnation) (Majeston, you know perfectly well that the personality returns to God and he sends it out again)  There is no one who has a "living" memory of it, neither then nor now.  So where did the knowledge come from?  Our scientists say writing wasn't developed untill such and such a time, and that time certainly isn't dated to 9,000-11,000 years ago.  So if there was no writing 9000 years ago, where did the information come from for the priests to have a record of it? 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on October 18, 2007, 12:56:19 pm
Qoais,

I hope you didn't think I was trying to "bust your chops."  I do not take any of the sources mentioned as being written in stone.  Plato himself has inconsistencies.  That's why no one will ever find Atlantis exactly as described in Timaeus and Critias.  Cayce has inconsistencies, as well.  Even the Bible has inconsistencies.  But that doesn't mean that we should toss any of these sources on the trash heap.  There is much good that we can learn from them.  I can find many parallels, which act as corroborating evidence, in my opinion.

Tom


Sorry Tom, don't take everything I say as being written in stone.  

I probably should have said that it's my opinion these 3 people........................

I've read Ignatius Donnelly and did not deduct that he was psychic, but that he was doing physical research.  

I know I do babble as my thoughts come tumbling and my fingers don't keep up.  Some of what I say probably is garbage, because even I will revise what I've thought before.  I'm sure everyone does.  

I couldn't possibly post everything I've ever read, because it's rather extensive, it's just that from all that I've read whether in books, or here in the forum, or elsewhere, it came to me that the explanation of Atlantis was fairly simple.  If a decimal was displaced in Plato's writings, it wasn't to make it 1009 years instead of 9.000.  It was to make it 9,ooo instead of 90,000.  Plato is saying this story is true, but no one would believe it was true if he said 90,000 years ago. (or maybe in his time they would, but the interpreters didn't and changed it)  It's possible they would believe 9,000 as Atalante has explained that this is a number common to the Egyptians for spiritual lifetimes.   However, even at 9,000 years, there would be no one alive that would "remember" Atlantis, or the world tilting on it's axis, stoppintg it's rotation and then revolving in the opposite direction as told by Robsang Lampa.  Nor would there be anything much of a complete history left in tact, written down somewhere altho Lampa does say that he and several other Lamas discovered a cave high in the mountains of Tibet that holds artifacts from this time.  

So, either there were"gods" with extended lifetimes that remembered the past and wrote it down for posterity after the cataclysm, or the information was accessed thru the Akashic records.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 01:07:18 pm
No Tom, I understood you. 

I know history has been handed down orally for thousands of years.  In the Bok Saga, it says this is a history of 75,000 years.  There is now proof that people lived in caves in Finland 75,000 years ago.  And yet, Atlantis seems to have existed 25,000 years before that. 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 02:19:27 pm
Just to clarify a tiny point - it would not have been the priest who told Solon the story that had originally written the story.  Whoever wrote the story of posterity would have been the one who had visited the Akashic records.

OR

it WAS a "god" who managed to build the pyramid and train priests up in the mindal development so they too could access this information and keep a record of the past for future generations.  No doubt this would be Thoth.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 18, 2007, 02:30:48 pm



No, Q.

I believe that the story was inscribed by the original 'refugees' from Atlantis (or whatever it

was called by them).  I believe it forms part of the Hall of Records 'record'.

Does anyone know if the CORNERSTONE  of the Sphinx has ever been uncovered (freed from

sand) in modern times?  This cornerstone is supposed to be at 'bare rock' level and it's inscribed

with the history of the carving of the Sphinx, why it was carved and the name of the man to

whom it was dedicated.  The original face was his.


It says so in EGYPT AT THE TIME OF RA TA (Atlantis in the New Age) - second page

Post 26 - Reading #953 - 24 / 6/12/26


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 02:46:57 pm
Hi B, that is quite possible, but the 9000 years would be the correct number then, not 1009.  I have only ever read where one of the Pharoah's had removed the sand from the sphinx as he was "guided" to do, but I THINK it was to the base, and not below to the actual foundations. There were other Pharoah's that re-chisled it and fixed it but I don't know that they removed the sand.  One found the chamber beneath the Sphinx but I don't think he removed all the sand either.

I know the Cayce readings tell of the refugees from Atlantis going to Egypt and to S. America.  I know he says there were 3 waves of exodus.  But there is one reading, and I can't quote which one it is, that has stuck in my head for years and years.  It's the one about where, after years of trying, that "finally, a perfect human child was born in Egypt" without wierd appendages.  I have a sneaking suspicion that the Atlanteans were amphibious. Oannes.

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/calendar/oannes.html

Kind of fits in with the Sumerian texts and Enki playing god with our genetic code.  Which of course, leads us right back to where did the Atlateans come from in the first place, or maybe, where did WE come from that we developed so differently and yet they could breed with our women?  Does this lead us back to the stories of the African tribes, of beings that came from a different star system and landed in the water?  And supposedly, Enki and Ea and all their entourage came from a different planet as well.  Curiouser and curiouser!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 04:12:35 pm
I can just see some egotistical Pharoah in the past, who thinks he's a decendant of a god, and then realizes his patriach was a fish, running out to the Sphinx and re-carving it in his own image!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Majeston on October 18, 2007, 07:10:42 pm

I know I do babble.....  Some of what I say probably is garbage,..... 

.....  However, even at 9,000 years, there would be no one alive that would "remember" Atlantis, or the world tilting on it's axis, stoppintg it's rotation and then revolving in the opposite direction as told by Robsang Lampa. 

So, either there were"gods" with extended lifetimes that remembered the past and wrote it down for posterity after the cataclysm, or the information was accessed thru the Akashic records.

\ Then I try to use what I've learned to come to a logical conclusion. 


Some people don't believe in the ability of raising one's consciousness to the higher levels of the Lamas.  Some people, like Majeston, don't believe in re-incarnation etc. etc.  To be open minded about a diversity of subjects, allows one to think way outside the box. (I hate that expression). 

The point is  - there is no one alive now, or in Solon's times, that was alive in Atlantis (except thru re-incarnation) (Majeston, you know perfectly well that the personality returns to God and he sends it out again)  There is no one who has a "living" memory of it, neither then nor now.  So where did the knowledge come from?  Our scientists say writing wasn't developed untill such and such a time, and that time certainly isn't dated to 9,000-11,000 years ago.  So if there was no writing 9000 years ago, where did the information come from for the priests to have a record of it? 


Qoais,

I know you think you are some kind of "logical" savant,  but,  Your mind is so full of garbage that it will take a freakin barge to unload it all and sort it out. Logic will not help.   What you need is a fresh start.  You,  of course,  have heard the term "everything you know is wrong".  You are like the bible.  There is some truth there but it is saturated with so much error that you really need to throw the whole thing away and start from scratch.  Without a map of truth no-one can sort it out.

We are very lucky to be living in an age where there really is truth to be had in many of these matters of Spirit and even in matters of materiality.
You apparently haven't realized it yet,  but about 100 years ago the whole world changed.  In fact what happened was that what man has been searching for since beginning his development here finally happened.   I know it appears bland by some standards,  perhaps not even exciting like sex,  drugs,  and rock & roll,  but it was something far greater.  Eternity became a reality and all the real answers man has been searching for got answered.  Mankind was no longer a cosmic orphan and words like maybe,  perhaps,  possibly, etc,  became obsolete for those with the gift or the help to recognize true revelation. 

2000 years ago another revelation happened and many did not recognize it.   I don't mean Jesus,  the man,  because he was localized.
But,  with Jesus came his spirit,  the Spirit of Truth to everyone and simultaneously God's spirit,  the Thought Adjuster was also bestowed.  I know this sounds a little bit intangible but that is what happened.  It didn't happen with Mohammad or with Moses or with Buddha or anyone else.  It only happened with the Jesus bestowal.
trivia.

Only with a cosmic viewpoint from above could the extraordinary event be seen.  Kind of like the forest through the trees analogy.  The new generations who received these extraordinary spiritual gifts could not really tell the difference between them and their forefathers,  but it was like they weren't playing with a full deck before.  The angels and other beings of higher order of course could see the difference like they could see black from white.  Of course,  we can't see them unless they want us to,  but that's another story.

The real point of this is that now another epochal revelation happened.  The fifth in the series spanning over 500,000 years,  and there will be more later.  This one though,  happened in your lifetime.  I don't know what speed you are traveling at my dear,  but I have 40 years behind me in my journey with this (20 of them somewhat serious)  and I haven't even scratched the surface yet. 

Anyway,  I'm gonna cut this short.

There is no reincarnation the way Eastern Mysticism believes it in the popular way.  This is the first life for everyone here.  After this there is what you might call reincarnation,  I believe about 570 times before you are pure spirit,  each one becoming less material.  More trivia.
The earth never shifted on it's axis and flipped which is total b.s.
Writing has been here since Caligastia 500,000 years ago and the so-called Akashic records although they do exist in both living and material form are not something that one accesses so readily if at all.  I made reference to the places in the UB at wikipedia (if it's still there) which describes the phenomenon.


I hope this finds you well Qoais but I find it difficult to have a satisfying discussion with you about these matters because you are such a novice.  I'm not a good teacher and my patience wears thin quickly,  which causes me to offend many people,  especially when they regurgitate garbage back at me in exchange for pearls.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 18, 2007, 09:02:35 pm
Majeston, I've thought of a lot of different answers to your post, but I am not going to be drawn into a discussion of the Urantia Book, nor am I going to be drawn into hurling insults back and forth.  Forty years of experience with the Urantia Book and you have not learned the basics.  Crudeness, Rudeness and arrogance do not open the gate of Paradise.

Your superiority attitude comes thru loud and clear (taking the name Majeston is a strong indication) and if you feel you need to insult someone and make like they are inferior to you, please feel free to take your frustrations out on me, because then you won't be beating on someone else.  Perhaps you were also the school yard bully.   On the other hand, if it causes you discomfort and annoyance to chat with me, then by all means, move on.  I thought we had agreed some time ago to ignore each other.

Obviously, I am travelling at my own speed and you are annoyed by that.  I don't want to know why.  All my life, I wanted to study and didn't have time.  Now I do.  So, I'm filling my head with the garbage of the Sages and wise and learned people of history so I can get up to speed.  What bothers you, is that I have read the Urantia Book, several times now, but still have the guts to think on my own and express what I think and have not become a fanatical UB follower.   I do try to be logical because I feel it's the best way to approach a mystery - such as Atlantis.  One can be completely embarrassed if one assumes too much and doesn't stop to think of the logic. 
 
I did not say the Akashic records were easily accessible.  I believe I said I only knew of 3 who had done so.  I also mentioned that it takes years and years of training to be able to do so. (Except for Edgar Cayce who was granted that gift)

Not all people have read the Urantia Book, nor do all that have read it, follow it religiously like you do.  I will reference it once in a while but there are other books, other knowledge to explore.  I believe the UB regarding Caligstia and that there was writing 500,000 years ago.  But I am not about to try to ram the UB down anyone's throat so must use that which is the accepted standard of scientific discoveries.  So, it's not a surprise to me that Atlantis could have existed 100,000 years ago.  Why should it? Dalamatia, the first city on earth was built 500,000 years ago and Caligastia came with all knowledge of the universe.  Don't tell me he didn't use it to develop technology.  But as I said, not everyone knows or believes in the UB so another approach is necessary to try to explain events of the past.  It would not surprise me either, to find that whoever these Atlanteans were, they were amphibious, for God has created many creatures that we know nothing about. 

So tell me your Majestry, who were the Atlanteans?  Who were the Oannes?  The UB does not mention these and yet there are written records (garbage to you) and pictures of these beings.  If it isn't in the Urantia Book, you don't want to know about it.  Why?  Are you insulted that God would make a creature half man half fish?  No stranger than Adam and Eve being immortal and having a dual energy system, yet you suck that up.

Now let me think - in what piece of garbage did I read that if you look at someone and place the thought in your mind that God loves that person as much as he loves you , you would treat him a whole lot better - oh I remember - I do believe it was the Urantia Book.  Could be wrong on that tho. 

So Majeston, look upon me and see me as God does and I will do the same for you.

Oh - just one more thing.  I HATE pearls.  They are the product of irritation and pain to the poor creature that has to bear them.












Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 20, 2007, 10:04:49 pm
It may sound like garbage to some I suppose, because humans don't seem to want to change their way of thinking, or change their prejudices.  The movie Star Trek I think, was supposedly science fiction, but I'm sure everyone noticed that the crew of the Enterprise met all types of strange beings in their travels, and as the show progressed, it showed these diverse beings working and getting along with each other.  And why not?  If we can change our pre-conceived ideas about the past, perhaps we can lift the veil of ignorance and non-belief in things we don't understand, or won't accept.

For myself, I had decided some time ago, to accept all the ancient records as true.  I figure it just took too much work and effort and training on the part of the people who made these recordings,  for them to be just story telling around the old camp fire.  I'm not saying everything that was written is the complete truth and nothing but the truth, because each person writes from their own perspective.  What I mean by being true, is that altho the people who wrote things down may not have even understood exactly what they were writing about, it was important enough to them to record it.  Most ancient cultures talk about "gods".  Who were the gods, and where did they come from?  WHY were they considered gods?  And where are these "gods" now?  We say, "oh, they weren't really gods, these are myths".  Well, who made them up then?  Who carved the pictures of them, if they didn't exist?

I have mentioned the Oannes and suggested that perhaps these "gods" WERE amphibious creatures with a dual support system.  I started wondering to myself, that if these "gods" divided up the world amongst themselves, and then lived in their designated domain, then Posidion had to live in the sea.  Or in the water anyway.  I had studied the Piri Ries map and I thought "either someone saw the world from up above OR they saw it from underneath". 

Quote
The Story of Oannes


 "At first they led a somewhat wretched existence and lived without rule after the manner of beasts. But, in the first year appeared an animal endowed with human reason, named Oannes, who rose from out of the Erythian Sea, at the point where it borders Babylonia. He had the whole body of a fish, but above his fish's head he had another head which was that of a man, and human feet emerged from beneath his fish's tail. He had a human voice, and an image of him is preserved unto this day. He passed the day in the midst of men without taking food; he taught them the use of letters, sciences and arts of all kinds. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and showed them how to collect the fruits; in short he instructed them in everything which could tend to soften human manners and humanize their laws. From that time nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun set, this being Oannes, retired again into the sea, for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes."


An account rendered by Berossus, a Babylonian priest of the 13th century B.C.


 

Going back to Plato's story, and without cutting and pasting the whole thing here, he tells us that in the beginning, the gods divided up the earth amongst themselves and after they settled their territories, they proceeded to look after us, their creatures and children, as shepherds look after their flocks.   "They did not use physical means of control, like shpherds who direct their flock with blows, but brought their influence to bear on the creature's most sensitive part, using persuasion as a steersman uses the helm to direct the mind as they saw fit and so guide the whole mortal creature."  In other words, taught them what they needed to know to be human.  Like the description of the Oannes above. 

When Posidion first married Clieto, he built these 3 rings of water around the hill where she lived making the place inaccessible to MAN.  (for there were no ships or sailing in those days).  So when he says making the place inaccessible to MAN,  what does he mean - as opposed to what?  Man couldn't swim maybe?  So first of all, how did Posidion get about his kingdom of Atlantis?  I'm sure he didn't just sit on the hill with Cleito making babies.  He would have had to check it all round about and develop it and protect it.   How did he get out and about?  If he was just a MAN?   Since I don't know what a "god" is, or what it can do, or why it's called a "god" in the first place, I have to assume it's something other than a man.  And yet it has to be at least part man to breed with a human.  So, if this "god" was amphibious, like the Oannes, he would have no trouble getting all around his kingdom, by swimming there.  The horses of his "chariot" were not equine horses.  He would have harnessed the power of whales and dolphins.  We use dolphins for all kinds of things these days - they're easily trained and so are whales, as anyone can see that goes to the aquarium.  THAT'S why the rings of water.  For access.  For himself and his kind.  I doubt it was because he was so far-seeing that he could predict that thousands of years into the future, man would invent boats.  (Unless of course, he himself was from an advanced culture that already had these things and he himself taught the people how to build them).  How easy it would be, to map the outlines of the landmasses, if one swam right along the edges, and drew as they went.  The Oannes could live on land as well, so they would see the "lay of the land" from a human perspective also.  But they didn't eat when they were on land.  Suggesting they couldn't digest the food that humans ate.
So - where did these "gods" originate?  Were they developing along side us all along, but their evolution was speedier than ours?  In other words, were they indiginous to this earth?  Doesn't seem so, according to all the legends.   The Dogons of Africa, have a legend where they say these beings came from another planet.  Same with the Sumerian texts, same with the information from S. America as one interprets the carvings in stone, the Nasca lines etc.  ALL these records cannot be a co-incidence. 

The Bok Saga tells of people living in or under the ice during the ice-age, 75,000 years ago.  How did they survive?  What did they eat?  A straight diet of fish for a few thousand years?  Even the Eskimos eat more than just fish.   Did they somehow swim under the ice sheet in frigid water to access food from somewhere else?  Don't think so.  They'd have died in about 3 minutes in that temperature.  So then it would seem that SOMEONE - BROUGHT - them food.  Who could do that?  Someone that could live on land AND water.  Someone who was "spiritual and peaceful" in the beginning, and cared about the cretures of earth.  Someone who taught them to read and write and to communicate with a sound system.  Whales and dolphins communicate with a sound system.  I bet their sound system hasn't change since the beginning of time!  So the people of the Bok Saga learned a sound system that would last down thru the ages.  Sounds that trigger group memories or subconscious memories so they they 'remembered" their past.  After the ice melted, the Bok Saga people sent out a special messenger to those who had left the original commune, a messenger that was to "remind" them of this sound system and trigger their memories.  I THINK it said a messenger was sent out every 1,000 years.  Well, at the end of the ice age, boats still weren't invented yet, so how did this messenger, get out and about in the world, to bring this message?  How did he know where the other people who left, had gone?  The first people who left, may have managed to cross the ice on foot, but after that - what?  I thought perhaps they used mentally telepathy, but I do think this messenger physically visited the colonies. 

What type of being could survive the catastrophic upheavals that supposedly happened in ages past?  When the land was covered in water, what type of being would have survived?  One that could live in the water. 

Here is part of an answer from a Marine Biologist when asked about the lifespan of whales and how long they'd been around:

Quote
The most modern families of whales are known from the Miocene and one first
appears in the mid-Oligocene (30 million years ago). However, more archaic
whales, named the archaeocetes, are known from the Eocene (50 million years
ago). These archaic whales includes genera that illustrate the transition
from primitive terrestrial mammals.

Somehow, the animals of the waters of the world, survived all those cataclysms. 

So - do we have everything ass backwards?  Have we perhaps, gone from being terrestrial mammals, to aquatic mammals, and back again? 

Why would a creature that had the best of both worlds, wish to establish itself on land permanently in the first place?  Perhaps because he knew he was evolving and had no choice.












Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 20, 2007, 10:17:33 pm




BRAVA, BRAVISSIMA!!!!


Q., just follow your own 'drum' and if others don't understand, too bad for them!!!

Thankfully, this is not AR and people, except for someone who constantly spews
BILE AND HATRED,  are still going to esteem you for having "an enquiring mind".

I wish there were more people with that in this world!

Love and Hugs,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 20, 2007, 10:35:14 pm
Thanks Bianca.  I appreciate your support. :-*


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 20, 2007, 11:20:55 pm
I've said it before, that I have a great deal of trouble with time lines.  I can never remember in what era or age an event took place or who lived when, etc., so I have no definite time line for any of this, and I doubt it really matters anyway.

BUT

Did Atlantis exist?  Yes I think so.  Where?  In the ocean just like Plato and Cayce said.  But probably the only part above water at one time,  was the part described by Plato.  The rest could have been under water all along, since these creatures had a dual support system.  WHERE exactly was Cleito's hill?  It literally, could have been anywhere on earth, for Plato only says that the way was blocked for "those who sailed there".  Whoever "those" are that he's referring to. 

The kingdom of Atlantis ( I think I should pay more attention to my psychic intuiton) was a water kingdom, that transitioned over the eons into a land kingdom.  From the top of the world - as in the Bok Saga - to the bottom of the world - we have the legends of almost all people, talking of a "god" who came from the ocean and taught them - gave them knowledge.  Cayce says that the Atlanteans knew their kingdom was going to break up and to preserve their knowledge they made "time capsules", Halls of Records.  I suspect that what we find there will be something totally different than what we expect.  Will they tell us how to make Vimanas?  No, I don't think so.  Will it tell us how to make more incredible weapons to kill each other?  No it won't.  Because THAT technology is NOT advanced.  We were never supposed to know those things in the first place, because we weren't ready for them.  We were SUPPOSED to be ready, but if we take some information from the Urantia Book, we were retarded in our progress of technological advancement because our Planetary Prince, sent here to teach us - SLOWLY - rebelled.  He was supposed to teach us for 500,000 years, at which time an Adam and Eve would be sent here to contiue our spiritual advancement.  (For those of you who haven't read the Urantia Book, you won't understand)
I won't go there right now.

Cayce talks about the Sons of Light and the Sons of Belial.  Guess who were the good guys and the bad guys.  I'm sure it's apparent.
The Tibetan Lama, Robsang Lampa, tells about TWO civilizations that existed far in the past, that warred with each other, even while preaching that they were "brothers".  And in the end they used mighty weapons of destruction and destroyed totally, all that had been built up before with mere remnants remaining in caves and tunnels, fighting for survival against all odds.  Against the destruction of food, against finding clean water, against the ash and smoke and darkness for days. 

Cayce tells about the Sons of Belial developing their technology and using the forces they created, against others and then turning the energy of the "great crystal" towards the earth itself.  They had been warned by the Sons of Light what would happen if they continued with these experiments, but would not listen.  When Cayce says that there were 3 waves of exodus from Atlantis, I'm sure it was not only the Sons of Light who left.  The Sons of Belial would have been looking for a new home as well. 

For those of you who have read Cayce, you will remember what he said about the souls who had entered the earth plane, into the animals of the earth, and couldn't get out again.  They lost the ability to re-enter the plane they had come from.  BUT SOME OF THEM DID NOT LOSE THEIR SPIRITUALITY.  They were still good and kind, and remembered that they were creatures of God.  And in the Cayce material he talks a lot about Ra Ta, and how some souls "lived in the time when Ra Ta was in Egypt, working in the "temple beautiful" and the "temple of knowledge".  These were not temples of worship.  They were schools and medical facilities.  Somehow, the Children of Light knew they had a place "prepared for them" and that place was on land.  Some of them had appendages, like fins, tails, etc.  These were removed in the one facility, and psycological counselling was given to those who had these appendages removed.  In other words, were taught how to be a human, as this is the body that had been designed for those souls to use while in the earth plane on their journey to spiritual enlightenment.  They were to no longer be entrapped in the bodies of animals.  Thus he says in one reading that finally "a perfect human child was born in Egypt". 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 21, 2007, 12:38:24 am
In the Sumerian texts, they talk about Enki and Ea and their sister, who (according to Sitchin) came from another planet.  That MAY be true.  Again, quoting the Urantia Book, an envoy of staff was sent here with our planetary prince to assist him.  These beings basically had all knowledge of the universe.  Not ALL as in God Knowing All, but All as in comparing ourselves to an ant.  They did not originate on this planet, but were personally chosen for their knowledge and skills by our Planetary Prince himself.  Some of this staff rebelled against the created order of things along with our Prince.  Some did not.  These beings were immortal.  ("gods" to some - with long life spans)

Drawing a parallel - We have Edgar Cayce telling about the two sides who differed in their opinions, one good, one bad.

We have the Urantia Book telling us about Caligastia, our Planetary Prince and his minions who rebelled with him, namely Lucifer and Satan.  (they are not the devil with horns and a forked tail). 

And we have the story of Atlantis - how at first they were spiritual but became base and gross over time.

It's all the same story.

HOW events played out, all the little details, we likely will never know.  But it would seem that some of the souls of the Children of Light entered the creatures of the sea, and when the time came for them to be human, they were aware of it and prepared for it.  In the meantime, helping the humanoids who were likely being developed for the purpose of the transition.  Teaching them what they had to know, as they evolved into the body that would eventually be the proper vessel for the souls who had lost their ability to be spiritual in nature, to use as a vehicle in their return path to spiritual enlightenment.

Now in comparison, we have the Sons of Belial drawing a parallel with the rebellious staff of our planetary prince, and the Annunaki who supposedly, "from Heaven to Earth came".  The stories are all the same, just told from the perspective of the different factions.

Our Planetary Prince rebelled against the Order of Creation or shall we just say God's plan for the development of this planet and all things on it.  He supposedly figured God's plan was taking to long and he wanted to speed it up.  Which apparently, actually set us back about 300,000 years.

So - in the beginning - according to Cayce, we have beings of spirit that could travel thru the cosmos at will, that looked upon this beautiful earth and the creatures in it, and entered into those creatures and were trapped there.  This does not mean they lost all their knowledge from the day they were created.  It means they lost their spirit "form".  There were those that did not enter therein, who felt sorry for those who were stuck here, and a plan was developed by those spiritual beings to help the others regain their spirituality whereby a physical form would be created to specifically accommodate that endeavor.  (I think he says Jesus was one of those who worked on this plan)  Not Jesus the "human" of course, but the spiritual being.  Obviously, this was going to be a slow process, one of evolution.

So now we come to those who would be patient and wait for the right moment - the Children of Light, (Oannes)  and those who decided they'd do like Lucifer and speed up the process.  The Anunnaki or Sons of Belial.  Drawing a parallel again, we have the ancient texts of the Vedas, telling us about flying machines and technological warfare - in the not so ancient past.  The Sons of Belial repeating their destructive history.  Rushing the technological developments that most "humans" wouldn't undertand, and ending up destroying each other.

The Children of Light?  They gradually integrated with their human counterparts as was the original plan, but sadly, have not followed the original path of finding their way back to their creator by spiritual enlightenment thru this body, as was originally intended.  As far as I can tell, only the Tibetan Lamas, and those who follow that type of teaching, are the only ones left on that original path of raising their consciousness to higher levels. 

So when Plato says "this power came from the Atlantic" it was true.  It ORIGINATED with the Sons of Belial, who lived in a kingdom that was originally, mostly water.  If these were the people who supposedly made this war on Athens etc. then they would be powerful, because they had superior knowledge. Perhaps a group of the Sons of Belial colonized Arabia in the Persian Gulf when Arabia first emerged from the depths, and perhaps they became the Anunnaki, working genetic marvels with their knowledge, so they could have a proper human physique quicker than the plan of evolution.  If so, then that old addage of "history repeats itself" is most definitely true.

So what is in the Hall of Records?  Depends which faction stored the knowledge. If it was the Children of Light, I would expect to find teachings about our origins, about the creation of the universe(s), and how to find our way back to our Creator.  I believe that this is the knowledge that would be saved, as Cayce says that only when the time is right and only when those who are supposed to open it, are all together to do so.
 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 21, 2007, 02:11:41 am
The "gods" of the olden days - of the Greeks and Babylonians etc., even the "god" that lead Moses, was not God, the Creator.  THEY were the false gods, the Sons of Belial, the Anuannki, the members of the Rebellious Staff of the Planetary Prince.  Setting themselves up as gods, for us puny humans to bow down to because they had superior knowledge.     GOD IS LOVE.  He can not be otherwise.  We are all equal in his view.  Therefore, he does not pick and choose who will fight a war and win - for he is not war - he is not for killing what he created.  He is not capable of human emotions and for priests to use fear and and put terror in the minds of men by teaching fire and brimstone and eternal burning in the fires of hell, is all against what GOD is.  God the Creator did not tell Moses to gather up certain chosen people and lead them out of Egypt to a "promised land" that he had to steal from those who already inhabited it.  God the Creator did not stick his nose in the everyday affairs of human beings, especially when they were fighting each other and killing each other.  No, that was the decendants of the Sons of Belial, the egotistical creatures that still believed their way was better than God's way, and never learned the lessons of the past.  I would guess that this "god" that led Moses was the last of the line, as even in the time of the Bible, he no longer appears to anyone and communication ceases.  God the Creator would not have to appear on a mount in flashings and tremblings and scaring people half to death with his arrival.  He is already present in each one of us. 
Besides free will, we are also endowed with a basic INSTINCT for what is right and wrong, as well as intuition for knowing the difference. 

Earlier I talked about the Urantia Book.  In that book, which again, I believe has truth in it, is not the whole truth and nothing but.  There is a chapter that tells about a planet not far from us, that is developing along the same lines we are, but that in their development they make use of eugenics to "breed out undesirable traits" using the theory like the Nazi's did, that they can breed the perfect race.  They sterilize those who cannot learn beyond a certain level, and those who have committed crimes. Those that are not "brilliant" are sent to do the menial labor on the farms and such and are not allowed to marry and reproduce.   I do not believe that God the Creator wants us impersonating him that way. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 01:49:34 pm
Hey Tom, Bianca tells me you are well versed in Edgar Cayce, so I was wondering if you could re-fresh my memory since it's been quite a number of years since I first read his stuff.

I THOUGHT I remembered, that he said when the souls got stuck in the animals, and eventually couldn't get out again, another group of entities got together and formed a plan for them.  It wouldn't be easy, but it WAS a plan, and that Jesus (Michael) was in that group.

Is my memory faulty on that?

What I'm trying to say, is that perhaps it was decided that a "perfect" body would be developed for the souls to use that were trapped, and then it would be up to them to use it for the purpose it was intended, as in regaining their spirituality.  I'm saying that perhaps, the plan was to "evolve" a body that was suitable, while at the same time, whatever body they were in currently, would evolve along a similar path, and when the two reached an equal level, they could then breed and the final result would be the "perfect vehicle".  Hence we have children being born with unwanted and unnecessary appendages, that were surgically removed in Egypt and we have the reading where Cayce says "the first perfect human child was born in Egypt".  (I can't remember which reading THAT was either).

I'd appreciate your help on this Tom.
thanks


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on October 22, 2007, 02:55:35 pm
Hi Qoais,

I would like to help, but this is a very deep and broad subject!  I don't know if I can do it justice in a discussion-type environment.  I accept the validity of the Cayce readings but not the UB, so we may disagree on certain details.

It is my understanding that the Jesus soul is not the same entity as Archangel Michael.  Jesus is the Way.  Michael is described as Lord of the Way.  There is a difference.

Other than that your memory of Cayce's explanation is pretty much on target.  I  was hoping to find an article on the Internet that would explain the major sequence of events in a clear fashion.  This one come close.  The subject is Atlantis but it also brings in the creation of Adam (five races) and the pre-Adamic races.  In the meantime, if anything else occurs to me, I will post it.

http://www.mysteriousworld.com/Journal/2002/Autumn/Atlantis/

Tom





Hey Tom, Bianca tells me you are well versed in Edgar Cayce, so I was wondering if you could re-fresh my memory since it's been quite a number of years since I first read his stuff.

I THOUGHT I remembered, that he said when the souls got stuck in the animals, and eventually couldn't get out again, another group of entities got together and formed a plan for them.  It wouldn't be easy, but it WAS a plan, and that Jesus (Michael) was in that group.

Is my memory faulty on that?

What I'm trying to say, is that perhaps it was decided that a "perfect" body would be developed for the souls to use that were trapped, and then it would be up to them to use it for the purpose it was intended, as in regaining their spirituality.  I'm saying that perhaps, the plan was to "evolve" a body that was suitable, while at the same time, whatever body they were in currently, would evolve along a similar path, and when the two reached an equal level, they could then breed and the final result would be the "perfect vehicle".  Hence we have children being born with unwanted and unnecessary appendages, that were surgically removed in Egypt and we have the reading where Cayce says "the first perfect human child was born in Egypt".  (I can't remember which reading THAT was either).

I'd appreciate your help on this Tom.
thanks



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 03:11:03 pm
From the Cayce material:

Quote
In Cayce's visions, the geography of the world at the time when human history began on Atlantis was dramatically different than it is today. Many areas of Earth that today are ocean were once dry ground, and many places that were once lush and fertile are now desert. Most of Europe was underwater, Norway and the Caucausus forming the western boundary of what we now call Eurasia, their rivers flowing into the Atlantic. Of what is now America, only the desert southwest and high plains areas of Arizona, Utah and Nevada were above ground, the Midwest being entirely underwater, and the East Coast forming the lowland areas of the continent of Atlantis. Likewise the Nile flowed west across the Sahara into the Atlantic, instead of north into the Mediterranean. The desert areas that are now the Sahara and Mongolia were lush, fertile plains, the area now known as the Sahara being the cradle of humanity. However, though these differences were dramatic, the most dramatic difference of all, according to Cayce's readings, was that the Earth was — from our perspective — actually upside down, the north pole now occupying the area that once was the south pole, and vice versa!12 Also, according to Cayce, Atlantis occupied the same position it did in Plato's writings:

Quote
Cayce's description of the first beings on Earth is a little odd. Apparently, according to his visions, before Adam was created, a group of spiritual beings physically manifested themselves into the physical plane by sheer force of will, creating material bodies for themselves that were not truly human, as we understand humanity.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 03:22:28 pm
I know there is a thread with the Cayce material in it, but I'm trying to pick out the pertinent parts that relate to the development of the human body, and how it could have been done.

Quote
So, according to Cayce, there was indeed a race of humans, or at least humanlike beings, before the creation of Adam. "In Atlantean land before Adam — [the entity was] timekeeper for those who were called things or servants or workers of the people."19 These spiritual beings who had taken on primitive fleshly forms apparently decided that the material forms they had originally taken on were too inefficient to perform everyday tasks efficiently, and decided a new form of mankind had to be created: "In Atlantean land when one individual first saw the changes that eventually made for that opening for the needs of, or the preparation for, the universal consciousness to bring into the experience what is known to man as the first created man ... in the days when the sons of God came together to reason in the elements as to the appearance of man in the physical on Earth's plane."

In other words, the animal forms were not condusive to efficient workmanship, so they got together to decide what form would be best and then endeavored to create it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 03:43:56 pm
In the last sentence, we find that the physical body is STILL developing:

Quote
From between 10,000 and 11,000 b.c. a tribe from the Carpathian region invaded and conquered Egypt. One of the leaders of this tribe was a priest named Ra-Ta. Ra-Ta was Edgar Cayce (or Edgar Cayce was Ra-Ta, depending upon your point of view). In Egypt Ra-Ta's religious teachings attracted a large following. However, there was already political friction in Egypt and tension between the ruling classes and the native Egyptians. Ra-Ta was caught up in this political intrigue, and after a native rebellion, he was banished for nine years to what is now Abyssinia. At the height of the confusion refugees began arriving in Egypt from Atlantis. The Atlanteans, scientifically more advanced than the Egyptians, found little in common with the inhabitants of Egypt, and began to set up their old way of life. Leaders of the ruling class and leaders of the native rebellion soon realized that these incoming Atlanteans with their superior scientific knowledge and radically different social and religious views posed a new threat. A leader had to be found, around whom the people could rally, to turn the power of the Atlanteans into constructive channels. In an effort to bring some order our of the chaos the leaders in power decided to recall the priest from banishment. Only he might correlate the activities of all these conflicting groups. This move was successful and with the cooperation of the rulers of Egypt, the priest, the Atlanteans and the natives there ensued a period of great advancement in human relations. The then civilized portions of the world enjoyed a period of moral, mental, spiritual and physical development.41


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 03:46:41 pm
Quote
In order to accomplish this sociopolitical revolution and blend the three races together seamlessly, institutions were developed to help facilitate the movement towards consolidation. "Combination hospital and educational institutions (called the Temple of Sacrifice and the Temple of Beauty) were set up, and probably functioned like the psychiatric wing of a modern hospital. There the masses flocked for mental as well as physical therapy."42 These institutions were needed both to heal the people both physically and psychologically. The Temple of Sacrifice focused on physical healing, including routine healings, surgeries, and even what appears to be radiation treatments and chemotherapy, where the Temple of Beauty focused on psychological healing, functioning as a combination psychiatric hospital/finishing school, helping heal mental illnesses and teach proper social behavior. However, they accomplished even more than this, as Edgar Evans Cayce explains:


Evidently, besides low mental development and/or lack of moral judgment and self-control, some people classed as servants or "things" or "automatons" had physical deformities linking them to the animal world. They may have had tails, feathers, or scales. This was a holdover from the early projection of souls into materiality for selfish purposes at which time monstrosities as well as creatures of beauty were created."43


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on October 22, 2007, 03:48:57 pm
Hi Qoais,

I just read your posts and found them really "educative". I think there is something there for sure, as i stated before somewhere in this site, why Man didn't become more intelligent, ever since is called a Man? Our skills developed from Stone Age to computers and atomic energy, but we haven't become more intelligent. For intelligence to develop we must, probably, close the "gap" of our unused mental capacity, that looks like our most evident proof, of long gone intellectual ability that is still recovering. Someone told that this story is over and done by Science, and that mental capacity works in a different way, but how to tell for sure? How can we assert on something unknown? its like a lawyer that goes to trial and doesn't know the accusations. Thank you so very much for the "Cayce" tip.

Regards

Mario Dantas


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 05:36:17 pm
Thanks Mario.  Just remember that I'm theorizing and trying to use logic to put the pieces of the puzzle together, and if you have any pieces, please feel free to post them :D  MY THEORY changes as I find new pieces, or find information that throws my old theory out of whack.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 22, 2007, 06:38:43 pm



Q.

My quest of these matters is so long ago that I have mostly forgotten the details.

First, no offense to anyone, I have never been able to 'get into' the Urantia book.  I first
came across it years ago, when it was a huge, although beautiful looking, tome.   I bought
my own copy not too long ago, just out of curiosity.

My reaction  to it is very much like CTKat's, a real aversion to it, deep in the gut.....And,
frankly, I cannot be bothered finding out why.  It has nothing to do with the person in the
above posts, either, I have only known the "real" person recently.

You missed a great component in your list:

MU/LEMURIA/OG and the Pacific Countries.  It has always been my deep feeling that life did
start there, not Africa.

Cayce says the same thing:  Mu/Lemuria /Og was FIRST.  But he does not go into too much
detail.

The best source for Lemuria/Mu/Og is  Blavatsky and the other Theosophists and, of course.
Churchward...
 
Let you 'inner knowing' guide you in what to believe......

Until lately, I have studiously avoided the seeding of mankind from other worlds.  Lately,
though, that seems to appear to me more and more likely.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 07:26:51 pm
Hi B - glad you're back.

The Urantia Book is not for everyone, and I know I drove my husband crazy while I was studying it, but I too, became very "gut oriented" and angry as well, and when I get instantly angry with something, I realize there's something not quite right about it.  It has a lot of information that's possibly true and can help fit bits together, but I think it's the best reverse psycology book out there.  But I started to feal fear and oppression like I do when I'm around people that try to force the Bible down my throat, so I moved on.

If I remember my grade school education, it seems to me that Darwin's theory was that we were amoeba and went thru the stages of evolution, until we stood upright, had five fingers and toes and a jaw that could make speach.

This could also be true, as it could have been the "original" plan all along.  "Life" could have started in a number of places as the earth was forming and warming up, in the quiet still waters of ponds and lagoons.  If we take the Bible literally, the whole world was covered in water in the beginning, and gradually the lands formed as the earth cooled.  I don't know where anyone else is, but coming from the prairies, I found a strange phenomena here in BC.  We are in our wet season now, and when it gets bad enough, there is a little tiny trickle of water that runs thru the basement.  Apparently the builders of this house realized the lay of the land and made the floor slope toward a drain.  If it happens that I've leaned something against the wall and put that little trickle in darkness, it isn't long before I will find a nest of little lizards behind the board leaning on the wall.  They did could not come in fully grown, as this is basically ground water seeping.  I have read somewhere, that you could be out in the desert, where there is nothing.  Build a pond in the ground, and before long you will have lizards.  Conclusion - life is in the water. 

I have no problem with our world being "seeded" from somewhere else.  Life had to START somewhere.  I believe our galaxy is on the outermost fringes of deep space, so to think we were FIRST is wishful thinking.  Maybe the creator has a recipe that he uses when he creates universes and galaxies that has the germs of life already in it, and when finally, all the ingredients are baked and the product cools, the life forms start to take shape.

I haven't read Churchward or Blavatsky.  I had read so much against Blavatsky, that I didn't bother. Will check these two out.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 22, 2007, 08:45:23 pm



Q.,

If you don't mind me saying so, would you not get more imput if you started a new thread?

You are delving into some pretty HEAVY stuff here, more related to the origin of mankind
than with Atlantis.

You can confer with Europa about this.  She'll be happy to help you (if necessary) name a
new thread, where to best put it and move (or divide) any of the posts you may want to use.
She's very accessible, bright and helpful.

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 09:47:50 pm
Thanks for the advice B.  It's not the origins of mankind I was trying to delve into, at least not in a heavy scientific way.  I was trying to take as much as I could from all the information and see if it would "fit" the story of historical Atlantis, based on the premise that there is truth in all those old writings.  I was going to try to correlate the Cayce information, with the Sumerian texts,  to the Bok Saga, to other ancient writings: make comparisons, reference everything etc., and then realized it would just be too big and too much, so I was thinking about a thread something like the one about "add three words" to make a story, but instead of three words, maybe we could all contribute a "piece" or something.

I know I've just blurbed everything out as I thought of it, and I have to admit, that what I blurbed about Cayce's Atlantis and human development, the Bok Saga and the sound system seems feasible to me.  I mean regarding how two lines were evolving side by side until they could cross breed (Posidion and Clieto) and how Posidion was an Atlantean that had evolved far enough to breed with humans (still carrying his great knowledge from when he was a spirit entity), and how creatures like him could feed the people of the Bok Saga to keep them alive.  How, due to retaining his knowledge, he could teach humans how to be humans, and then as time goes by, and a few generations of the cross-breed develop, they use surgery to remove the appendages.  I mean, if you're a fish, and an intelligent one, you'd certainly be able to figure out the sound system of the whales and dolphins, and teach this to people as a "cue" to remember their purpose.  I mean, when it came to me it was so logical and orderly, but by the time I can get my fingers to catch up to my head, it comes out garbled!

So I was thinking I'd start over.  Find a starting point - the Cayce stuff, and then work thru the Bok Saga, etc etc. to collate all the information, showing where I got the info and stuff like that.  But I admit, it's too big for me.  It's the IDEA of it that facinated me I guess.  I'm not quite the researcher you are  :D wish I was, so it would take me a long time.  I guess the point is, that all that information is either here already, or we've been linked to it, and that was MY THEORY that presented itself.  I also find it difficult to get around in here, as it's so big, and by the time I've found what I'm looking for, I forgot what I wanted it for - and ended up with burnt offerings for supper as well! :P UGH!

Anyway, I thought , since I can't do time lines for the life of me, we could work up a story somehow, and come down thru the ages.  I mean this whole forum started because people were looking for Atlantis.  Plato brought it's existance to our attention, and Cayce filled in the gaps, but it's possible there's a lot more to it.  I've basically outlined the theory so in a way there's not much to add I guess.

My conclusion is:

Atlantis existed.
It's beginnings were a lot farther back in time than is normally accepted.
That certain spiritual beings entered into the animals, and those that entered into the sea creatures survived all the cataclysms.
That two lines of evolvement took place at the same time, and at a certain point, the two cross bred in an effort to evolve the perfect body.
That while these two lines were developing, the more mentally advanced one, (Those who had also been Atlanteans) went about the world teaching the other ones what it was to be human. (Oannes)  They were preparing for the time of development for the cross breeding.
That they did what they could to help these lesser advanced beings to survive the ice ages and the cataclysms. (Bok Saga) as they knew they needed these lesser creatures for future evolvement.
That the "gods" referred to in the ancient texts, Greek, Biblical, Sumerian, etc., were the advanced Sons of Belial, (Atlanteans) that subected all others to their will.
That after the first perfect humans were finally evolved, they were to go out in the world and multiply as there were a lot of souls waiting for the physical body.
That they were to develop their minds, while keeping the body fit.  The mind is the path back to the Creator, and that is the part of us that we should be exercising the most :D  (Mine's pretty tired right now) 
That we were to develop and grow in technology in ways that would be beneficial to a growing human population in that not only could they be fed, but that they would develop time and energy saving devices so they wouldn't have to just work all day and have no time for mindal for spiritual exercise. 
That we would develop our medicines and science to benefit all, and not pollute mother earth while we're at it.

If the Tibetan Lamas can live a healthy, peaceful, loving existance, there's no reason why the rest of us can't do the same.  But greed and avarice are still with us, and we want the new car, the bigger house, the holiday On the Med. or whatever.  There's no harm at all in having fun and relaxation, but all things in moderation.  We are choking the earth with plastic, we are polluting the air and water with chemicals that will take thousands of years to biodegrade, we are not cutting down the rainforests, we are burning them faster and faster until the land will be a barren desert.  Even the ink in your printer is toxic for heavens sake, and a lot of printers have little fans in them to keep them cool, and if you're sitting beside it all day like in a busy office, well - you won't need supper because you've been eating ink fumes all day.

The time lines - like say - when did the East Indians have Vimanas, or when were the pyramids built in S. America, etc., are all in between the time of Atlantis, and the time of their existance. Then for some reason, these things too, came to pass into oblivion and somehow, we survived until today. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 22, 2007, 10:26:15 pm



OH, BOY........

THAT'S A LOT, Q.......

I follow you , but I don't have anywhere near information you have, unfortunately.

Just for the heck of it:  What do the Tibetans say about the origins of mankind?

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 22, 2007, 11:09:25 pm
I don't know B, I don't know that much about Buddhism, other than it's the oldest religion, as far as "modern" religions go.  I wouldn't have a clue as to what the Atlanteans, the Children of Light, would have called their relgion  ;D  IF they actually called it anything, other than the "teachings of the Children of Light". 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 04:56:58 am
*** Qoais you must read CHURCHWARD ! one of the most underestimated scholars of our time? you know how that goes? ? ? Both you and Bianca are two of the most respected members of this Forum. Your contributions, intellectually questioning and otherwise; are Dazzling all of us. I Know my head is spinning ! When I see the input and dedication you two girls are giving . . . just blows me away ! ! ! I cant imagine a better world without you two? Dont Stop ! Dont Give Up ! Remember even Jesus had his enemies and detractors. Unfortunately nothing has changed for the better in 2000 years. The Roman hierarchy and Jewish Rabbis still vie for control ? So all my love from a fellow maple leaf. [not to be associated with the toronto "losers" hockey team?]       ***nD3*


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on October 23, 2007, 05:42:09 am
Hi Qoais,

   This is a quick "translation" i made from a book called " Le dossier Afrique" (from Marabout Universite).  Sekou Toure, Kwame Nkrumah and many others make important statements about the "present" (1962) situation in Africa. Heritage of the Past is the first Chapter of the book and deals namely with :




[...]    The Queen of Saba and the Falachas

   The Chamites or Hamites or  even Chamito-Nilotiques form a group relatively less important to which the Tutsi belong. They constitute, in Rwanda and Uganda the Cast of Masters in which are born the Kings and Chiefs. The Tutsi, great land owners, have imposed their power onto the Hutu that since longtime ago have recognized their supremacy. Of great size (frequently more than 1.90 m), they have a long crane, a straight nose and thin lips, which makes them very similar to Egyptians and Ethiopians.
    Ethiopia, word that means literally "the country of the burned faces", has been known with other different names. The Ancient Egyptians called it "Pount" . Archaeologists talk of the Kingdom of Axoum. There is also the name Abyssinia due to the mix of races that dwelt there (this term as become very prejudice in Ethiopia).
    Ethiopia was probably the domain of the Queen of Saba.
Who was this Balkis (or Bilkis), as the Arabs name it,  and the Bible tells that she came to Salomon with the intention of testing his wisdom? Saba is located in the South-West of Arabia, where is today's Yemen. Tradition says that the Queen of Saba was sovereign in Ethiopia. At the beginning of the Century, opinion pointed to the Queen of Saba was originative from Arabia, and would be considered pure fiction the tradition regarding Ethiopia.
   The presence in Yemen of Jew colony dating from the time of Salomon, corroborate this way of seeing things. When doctor J. Faitlovitch, in 1950, was to perform an inquiry in the Falachas colonies, in Ethiopia, where he found the presence of 50 000 black Jews, which pretended their descendants came to Africa in the time of Salomon! Many among lived in the forest and refused to believe there were white Jews.
   The History of the Falachas made Historians reflect. The word Falachas means "stranger". Where did those strangers of mosaic religion that were installed in the South of Ethiopia come from? They call themselves Bieta Israel, which means "house of Israel".  [...]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The point in translating this bit is that it looks now obvious to me, reading your posts and researching on my own too, that something really important occurred in "those" times. An education tuition or instruction might have happened. Who were this people? Who could have teach the Bieta Israel Group, as they say, other than, at least a likewise monotheistic religion group? Why did they go there? Why did they mate?
I have thought that "philologically" (love of words)  Bieta Israel really means "Beta", if this is true who were the Alpha?


Kind Regards

Mario



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Tom Hebert on October 23, 2007, 06:23:15 am
Hi Qoais,

I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round that has malfunctioned and is now spinning out of control. Even though I'm hanging onto a pole for dear life, I'm about to be thrown off, anyway!

I have only a passing knowledge about about the other sources that you mention, but some of the questions you ask about Cayce would require a whole book to answer.  That's why I keep hoping somebody else has already done the work for me and that is is available on the Internet.

I DO find all of these subjects fascinating and stimulating, but isn't there some way to make them more manageable?  I fell like you are trying to write the entire history of mankind in one thread!  Even the subject of Atlantis is so broad that the moderators have had to break it up into multiple forums and sub-forums.

I know this thread is meant to be your own personal musings, but isn't there some way to break it down a bit?  If not, that's okay.  It's still worthwhile.  Keep up the good work!

Tom







Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 07:30:54 am






Here's a succint article about the BUDDHIST  view of the origin of mankind:




Buddhism generally ignores the question regarding the origin of life.

The Buddha regarding the origin of life has said "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it."AN IV.77, and in regard to ignoring the question of the origin of life the Buddha has said "And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me." MN 63.

The Buddha also compared the question of the origin of life - as well as many other metaphysical questions - to the parable of the poison arrow: a man is shot with a poison arrow, but before the doctor pulls it out, he wants to know who shot it (arguing the existence of God), where the arrow came from (where the universe and/or God came from) why that person shot it (why God created the universe), etc. If the man keeps asking these questions before the arrow is pulled out, the Buddha reasoned, he will die before he gets the answers.

Buddhism is less concerned with answering questions like the origin of life, and more concerned with the goal of saving oneself and other beings from suffering by attaining Enlightenment, or Nirvana.

However, the esoteric Buddhist teaching, the Kalachakra Tantra, deals with the formation and functioning of reality. Modern day Buddhists such as the Dalai Lama don't perceive a conflict between Buddhism and science and consider they are complementary means of understanding the world around us.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_belief


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 07:52:54 am
*** Ive been reluctant to post this. It came to me months ago! I wrote it down in less than 2 minutes ? Literally this profound Truth came thru me for the obvious reasons necessary for those who dare to trespass. You can call it Channeling or Divine Intervention or whatever you want? But this is what came to me as an artist one night in a deep moment of contemplation and asking God for direction and Trvth. NOW I feel its the appropriate time to introduce this Profound and Divine statement. As Im doing this from a cell phone in my travels and dont have the means to post this statement in all the appropriate sections/topics can someone please do that for me [please] ? Ill type the entire poem/prose/parable/prophecy in CAPITAL LETTERS to accentuate the actual truth and channeling of the message. Here it is !       copyright courtesy of symynyshyn shellstar systyms 2006.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 08:59:12 am





3D,

I can't find it.  Be more specific, please.

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 09:02:20 am



3D,

IS THIS YOU?



Paros Arts: Don’s Olympic Sculptures
 
by Karen Barratt, December 1999
 
Don Symynyshyn arrived on Paros as a backpacker in 1974 when he spent five days on a deserted Pounda beach (near Logaras) long before the beach clubs took it over, and walked a lonely Golden Beach (Chrissi Akti) in August - nobody was there except a few ‘hippies’ living in bamboo huts. On his return to Canada he graduated as an Associate of the Ontario College of Art and became fascinated with the medium of marble - Parian marble in particular as used by the classical sculptors.

He worked all hours and saved enough money to return to Paros in 1979, staying until 1981 carving marble on the beach with basic tools that had changed little since the classical period.

He preferred working in public places to a studio so, during the years that followed, as well as spending a lot of time working on the beaches of Paros he worked on the streets of Toronto, and on the boardwalks and beaches of California. In this way he sought to educate people by showing them how his pieces evolved from a rough piece of stone to something of beauty.

His latest important project began obscurely as a triangular piece of marble which he thought would produce a good windsurfing trophy. However, as he began to work on the stone, a story evolved in his mind which he describes as a whole new mythology, starring a new mythological character called ‘The Goddess of Fire’.

He proposes to create a series of twelve ‘Olympic Flame’ sculptures for the 2004 Olympics in Athens, which he hopes will be housed in a permanent collection to memorialise the games. Each flame will represent gods and goddesses of a whole ‘new mythology’ and a continuation of classical Greek mythology.

Don tells us: “As each flame evolves in the marble a story is unfolding and flowing into the next chapter and the next flame. Like holograms from the past - visual messages embedded in the stones of the earth by a race of superior beings of the far distant past. The particularly high translucency of Paros marble makes it capable of capturing and retaining more vivid images than most other materials on this planet!”

He says: “The concept of a flame in marble has been in the back of my mind for quite a while now. The idea has been on the drawing board for at least nine years. In August 1996 on Golden Beach, I started carving a long slender piece of marble resembling a candleflame standing upright (approx. 1m high) and gently flickering. Within the flame I visualised the entwined figures of a mermaid and dolphin. As I worked on it, an amazing story began to reveal itself to me and I felt compelled to write it down. Sometime during the beginning stages of this ‘Flame Dolphin Mermaid’ concept, Athens was officially announced as the home of the 2004 Summer Olympics and this piece became ‘The Olympic Flame’.

“The basic story of my new mythology is this . .

“Olympic Flame #1 - The Conception of Aphrodite: An angel comes down into the sea and makes love with a dolphin. In the love-making process, the angel’s wings are transformed into a mermaid’s tail. From this union Aphrodite is born and the dolphin’s smile is the secret of the mermaid.

“Olympic Flame #2 - The Goddess of Fire: The angel now confined to the body of a mermaid transforms from the sea into air and inhabits the sail of a windsurfer as the Wind Goddess. But, in order to achieve longevity, she enters the Flame and becomes “The Goddess of Fire” and Olympic Flame #2.

“A proposal for Olympic Flame #2 is to present this sculpture as a trophy to the top female athlete of the 2004 Olympics who would keep it for a time before it was returned to be displayed as part of the twelve flames.”

The first two pieces are now at a stage where Don needs a studio and machinery in order to finish them. If you are interested in sponsoring him or know of a studio he can use to complete his project, you can contact him though Nicolas at the Wired Café in Paroikia who is in the process of putting Don’s ideas, designs and sculptures on the Internet. The sculptures will be 3-dimensional so you can watch how his project is progressing.


http://www.paroslife.com/story.html?story=995&issue=22


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 09:19:46 am
***THE TRUTH BEHIND THE URANTIA BOOK*** BACK IN THE 30s & 40s A GROUP OF PROFESSIONALS OF VARIOUS FIELDS GATHERED TOGETHER & DECIDED TO COMPOSE A HISTORY OF THE EARTH FROM A SCIENTIFIC & THEOLOGICAL POINT OF VIEW. THIS GROUP WAS COMPOSED OF EXPERTS OF HISTORY. . . THEOLOGY. . . ARCHAEOLOGY. . . GEOLOGY. . . GEOGRAPHY. . . ASTRONOMY. . . MATHEMATHICS & SO FORTH. THEIR AIM WAS TO LOGISTICALLY EXPLAIN THE BEGINNINGS OF THE UNIVERSE & THE BEGINNINGS OF MAN ON EARTH. THEIR IDEA WAS TO COMBINE SPIRITUAL TEACHINGS WITH SCIENTIFIC FOUNDATIONS. THEY DECIDED TO TREAT THIS MANIFESTO AS THE PRODUCT OF ONE BEING . . . A SIMPLETON . . . THAT CHANNELED INFORMATION FROM THE GREAT BEYOND ! IN THEIR INGENUITY & DECEPTION THEY EMPLOYED THE PSYCHICS & SCIENCE FICTION WRITERS OF THE TIME TO FORMULATE A GRAND SCHEME THAT WOULD FASCINATE THE MASONS & SCHOLARS OF THE TIME & WOULD BE THE SPARK THAT TRIGGERED THE CONCEPT OF THE ILLUMANATI.       copyright by symynyshyn & shellstar systyms 2006       ****D3D   c.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 10:31:21 am





That's just about what I figured, too.

Also explains the "creation" of other so-called GREAT RELIGIONS.


MANIPULATION OF THE MASSES.

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 11:04:44 am




Ok, everybody, FYI :


THE ORIGINS OF MANKIND - According to various sources throughout the world.

Does not include Cayce, Churchward or the Theosophists.



http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,4278.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 11:57:33 am
*** Bianca you have just absolutely blown me away ! I never expected that ! You found out something about me from a very powerful place and time !  Right now Im all choked up with emotion . . . I never expected this? Thank you for diving deeper than most. You are truly amazing ! Qoais has been asking me for years what I do ! But Ive been hesitant to talk about myself ! Art is such a personal thing. So Ill tell you all a little story from 1984 that is so relevant to this forum. That Summer of "1984" I found myself working on "The Mythology of Woman" on the streets of Sante Fe, New Mexico. . . actually in Cathedral Park at the corner of Cathedral Place and Palace Avenue. I was there 5 months carving a one ton block of very fine Ontario Limestone that I had designed and started on the street outside the Ontario College of Art in downtown Toronto in1981. The original concept was the Amazon Queen straddling a Biblical Harp and playing it with her feet. She had transcended her warrior qualities . . . 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 12:13:37 pm



3D,

I have long had "suspicions" about you........

I have "printer's ink" in my veins from my own past.

But I am not PERSONALLY a nosy person and you didn't seem to want to share.......


This particular story just kept coming up in my face, it would not be denied......


Please take it in "good spirit", as it is something to be proud of.  Not as an invasion of
your privacy.

Mind you, I have been "knocking myself out" trying to find your sculptures, now I think you

just gave me a lead......


Hugs, 555!
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 01:39:01 pm
*** The Night before her final battle against the Greeks the Amazon Queen dreamt she had transcended her warrior qualities . . . and became the Harp and became the Music and thus became the "Mythology of Woman". During the summer of 84 the Olympic Flame passed thru Santa Fe on its way to L..A. At this moment I was inspired to carve a "Winged Flame" on the Left ankle of the Mythology of Woman. One night a Native American Sculptor came by with his buddy and a big paper bag full of beers! He said his grandfather had given him an Eagles Feather and he wanted to carve it on the bow of the Harp! So I let him. . . he worked all nite as I sat back against a tree and watched and drank beers. It was one of those memorable moments I'll treasure forever. There were many memorable moments as this sculpture evolved in public as a Performance Art Piece across North America from Toronto to Santa Fe and eventually to a beautiful location overlooking the Pacific Ocean in front of Coles Bookshop in La Jolla California.   ***


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 01:58:19 pm
Aw Schucks!  I've been wracking my brain for ages, trying to figure out 3D.  He's on a ship, then he only has an hour on the computer, then he deeks me out with the interest in planets as a construct, then he's on about ley lines, and I'm trying to put it all together ;D ;D
Bianca, how on earth did you figure that out?  You are most awesome.

I've got so much in my head right now, I have to kind of gather my thoughts!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 02:16:42 pm


Don't feel bad, Q.!

I wasn't kidding about 'printer's ink'.  In my distant past I have written for newspapers,
been on radio regularly (in Italo-Canadian Media).  I married the chief English announcer
and after the babies came, I did all his research for him.  He won a few prizes for docs
to which I had done the work.  He works for Voice of America now, but we've been
divorced for quite a while....




3D:

This is all I came up with, how about some pictures, really?


(http://sevenroads.org/Bookish/ColeJ3Lg.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 05:29:39 pm
Mario, thank you for that story about the Queen of Saba.  It makes sense.  Your conclusions are logical and the question as to who was the Alpha is certainly cause for thought.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 05:31:05 pm
But Bianca, what was it exactly that had twigged for you? 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 06:00:23 pm
*** But perhaps one of the most Profound and strangest moments I'll definitely never forget happened one afternoon toward sunset in Santa Fe. This one guy had been riveted to the iron wrought fence that surrounded Cathedral Park. He had been standing in one position on the outside of the fence on Cathedral Place at a distance watching me work for about 2 hours! Now Ive worked and performed in public for years in front of thousands/millions? of people. There is no way one could even estimate how many people? Anyway this individuals' prescence was a bit unnerving. Eventually when he saw me taking a break he approached me very slowly as if not to disburb me. Over the years Ive aquired this rap with people. Usually I introduce myself, make a joke, juggle my chisels, do a drum solo on the stone and the table. . ."steel on steel on stone on wood". But this guy spoke first. "Hey man you're not from this world. . .this place is not ready for such beauty". He went on to explain that he had been a Psychic in Vietnam! *


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 06:10:26 pm
Come on 3D - you've got to give us pictures!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 07:35:51 pm



Q. said:


"But Bianca, what was it exactly that had twigged for you?"

 He has a GYPSY SOUL


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 07:59:08 pm
Uh Uh - not good enough!  Did you remember the article from your newspaper days?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 08:22:29 pm



No, No, I found the article on the net. 

Put 2+2 together and decided it was HIM.  The dates seemed right.

He dropped a lot of hints from the first day he came here.


He does have a GYPSY SOUL!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 08:30:06 pm
Boy, did I mis-cue on the hints!  I thought he was phychic from the Sarmast Forum days, but I lost it after that ???

I think his statement about the UB could well be true.  Kind of like Plato.  Doesn't give the pertinent details that help one find anything.  altho SOME of it could be true, having come from professionals in the different fields. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 08:38:02 pm



You know they have Google so well covered (about 122 entries) that it's extremely hard
to find any criticism of them. 

But there is ONE  entry that ties it to exactly what 3D says.
I read it over today, but I'm not having a good day interpreting convoluted 'stuff'....

I'll link when I find it again.  I want to know what it means, myself.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 08:51:37 pm



Try this, Q.:


http://www.alexconstantine.blogspot.com/2006/12/urantia-911truthorg-cia-mind-control.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: mdsungate on October 23, 2007, 10:17:05 pm
 :)   Yeah!!! Bianca's back!!  It wasn't the same without you, (even for a day)

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/fireworks.jpg)

Viva la liberte

So it was the infamous Mr. "M", huh.  I remember him... all too well, LOL.   8)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 10:17:28 pm
JAY-SUS MURPHY - as my mother would say.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 23, 2007, 10:23:00 pm
*** I just lost a BIG post ? I'll have to retype it and continue the story later. Right now I must sleep . . . Ive been awake about 30 hours !  Sorry about that.  p.s. I have Hundreds of photos but at the moment I dont have the means to scan and post them. Hopefully I can do that soon. Also I have an old website on a disc in storage. But it might be a while before I dig that up? This has totally caught me off guard. A few hours ago I couldnt have imagined Id be here talking about my work? I did have in mind tho to one day submit something to the Sculpture Section. But I hadnt planned on it this soon? Thanx Bianca for being so amazingly perceptive and bringing this to my attention. You are truly one of a kind ! Ciao 4 Now.       Qoais you also are one of a kind ! Thanx for allowing me to reminisce here. Those were wonderful memories from a very special time for me. Im very buzy in the next couple days but I'll try to finish "The Mythology of Woman" story as soon as I can. N*te       d**


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 23, 2007, 10:40:53 pm
G'nite 3D.  Rest well, so you can re-post the lost post in all clarity!!!!

Thanks for the compliments :-*


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 23, 2007, 10:47:57 pm



DITTO, 3D!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 24, 2007, 12:18:14 am



Mike:

Thank you for the Welcome Back cheer!!!

Wish you could come back daytime, too....

Hugs,
B


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 24, 2007, 04:32:11 pm



Q,

did you read the article at the link above?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 24, 2007, 05:17:25 pm
Yes.  That's why I said Jay-Sus Murphy!!!  It's mind bogglilng.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 24, 2007, 05:33:50 pm
I know some people will say, if we all came from Atlanteans, how is that we speak different languages?  Well, I would imagine altho I'm not a scientist, that as humans were developing, sounds did not come easy at first.  Nor second or third!!!  Even when I was a kid, we could take French (it was optional then) and I had to quit because I just couldn't make the sounds of the French language.  Nor any other language, even to this day.  I do so envy people who can speak more than one language.  So, it's possible that when spoken language was being taught, however the indiginous people managed to say a word, that became the word.  Also, not all Atlanteans had entered into sea creatures.  In the beginning, I imagine these trapped entities could communicate telepathically, but when they had to make sounds, they would sound like the animal they were trapped in.  So if an exodus of Atlanteans that were originally trapped in a certain animal taught the evolving humans their way, and another taught their way, the words would all sound different.  We learn our language as infants from repeating the sounds of our parents.  If we're lucky, we live in a place where more than one language is spoken and we learn that too.  Much easier to learn when you're really young.  I actually had French kids for friends when I was in my pre-teens, but never learned a word of the language.  Other than Oui! Just wasn't meant to be I guess. 

Even after the great cataclysm, there were pockets of humanity that survived, and even their language would evolve over time.  Even amongst the same people, different dialects develop, so it's not too inconceivable to understand why we speak different languages.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 24, 2007, 05:40:43 pm
I flunked French 1 twice!

Our teacher was from the deep South....PAR-LAY VOO FRAN SAYUH.... KEZ KUH SAYUH...

JEEZE...!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 24, 2007, 05:56:20 pm
Rocky that's hilarious.  I can just picture that!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on October 25, 2007, 07:03:35 am
HI Qoais:


Cape Verde is a good example, we speak a language called "Creole"  (Altough Portuguese is the national language). In each of the nine inhabited Islands there is a "different" Creole. Phonetically different, that is. Sometimes it's difficult to interpret what someone is saying, specially if one is talking fast. I guess the "different languages" can also be inside one language (more or less). Different social groups too can talk differently, just to make a point regarding the inevitability of it (many languages) happening

Regards

Mario




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 25, 2007, 03:17:42 pm
True Mario - look how Latin dominated the world at one time, and now English does.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 25, 2007, 03:23:52 pm
Hi Tom
I didn't mean for this thread to be just my own musings.  I was hoping people would poke holes in my theory so I could be challenged to correct it.  If something comes along that makes more sense, or is proven, then I'd have to adjust my theory.  Thought it would be a kinda fun thing to do.  If I split it all up, all the information becomes just pieces of a puzzle again, and the puzzle never gets put together.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on October 26, 2007, 04:28:07 am
Hi Qoais,

Please read the latest news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7062415.stm

regards

Mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 26, 2007, 04:29:45 am
*** a continuation of "THE MYTHOLOGY OF WOMAN" story from Tuesday October 23 coming up in my next post.   ***


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 26, 2007, 11:04:38 am
*** The Psychic continued to explain that his job in Vietnam was to "look for the enemy"! This was the first time I became aware of such activity happening in the military. It was sort of the topic of movies & late nite talk shows. Here I was hearing it first hand. I was intrigued & curious! We talked for some time & then he said something that has been planted in my mind & I still think about it to this day. It is probably one of those contributing factors that eventually directed me to this forum. He said "You know. . .this sculpture you're carving were THE GATES TO ATLANTIS". As he walked away those words were ringing in my head for hours. I always felt this piece wanted to be near the sea. Since that is the origins of limestone/marble anyways, once an ancient sea bottom, the end product of coral & sea shell deposits! So I moved "The Mythology of Woman" to California. Strangely enough exactly 10 years later she & her twin sister "The Winged Angel" were destroyed in the Great L.A. Quake of Jan. 1994 !   ***


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 26, 2007, 11:15:48 am



OOOOOOOH, N O.............


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 26, 2007, 04:27:39 pm
DDD,

Have you put up any pics of them yet? 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 27, 2007, 12:04:33 am
Hi Mario
What a great article.  Obviously there's a gap in MY education, as when I was young, we were taught that Homo Sapiens developed from Cro-Mag!  Now they're saying that's not true.  Oh well, next year they'll retract that and say something else.  I'm not really sure how to apply this bit of information to what I call "My Theory".  Does it substantiate the thought that there were different species of "human" evolving side by side or not?   hhmmmmm.....................  Does it substantiate the idea that "someone" messed with our DNA eons ago? As suggested by Edgar Cayce and the Sumerian texts?  hmmmmm........

Hi 3D
I loved the story, but not the ending :'(  Those pieces must have been truly beautiful. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 27, 2007, 02:15:04 am
Copied from the thread Genetics:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,4377.msg39714.html#msg39714

So - maybe - if the Neanderthals became extinct, we WERE re-seeded by superior beings?!?!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 27, 2007, 04:07:32 am
*** "The Mythology of Woman" broke into 12 pieces?   ***


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 27, 2007, 04:39:30 am
*** This is the reality ! You dont have to go looking for it !       ***7***


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 28, 2007, 06:54:29 am
*** Hi Rockessence *** I havent posted any pictures yet. I have to dig everything up first. When I do I'll probably put it in the appropriate section: the arts / sculpture etc. I'll leave a note here when I do. Thank you all for your interest.       DD****D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: mdsungate on October 28, 2007, 06:08:44 pm
 :)  Quote from Qoais:

Quote
Does it substantiate the thought that there were different species of "human" evolving side by side or not?   hhmmmmm..................... 


My theory too "Q".  There's evidence for it, if you know how to read it.

There's a Dr. D'Adamo in Canada who has devoted his life's work to cross referencing blood type to diet.  One of his books is entitled "One Man's Food..."  I think he's just hit the tip of the iceburg.  The reason why some drugs have side effects on one person and not the same effect on another is that we're not a "homo" genius race.  We're a mutt mix of different humanoid types of creatures. 

D'Adamo points out that the actual blood chemistry is different in how one person's blood processes a drug, as to how another persons blood processes the same chemical, (and this goes for food as well).  The Nethandral's didn't become extinct, they were simply assimilated and interbred.  Same with Cro Magnum Man. 

If the blood types are any indication, then there were at least four different types of humanoid creatures that interbred.  Type "A" blood was a complete vegetarian creature, while type "O" blood was carnivarous.  And AB and B were yet two different types of humanoid. 

His work is very controversial.  But it makes sence if you think about it deeply.  It explains a very old adage... of how one food can be good for one man and yet be very bad for another.  How could that be if we were all "homosapiens" ?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 28, 2007, 08:30:44 pm
Thank you very much for that information Sungate.  Controversial indeed.  Since mainstream science seems to get set in their ways and opinions, I am very happy to hear that someone is going where no man went before.  I like this theory.  It would explain a lot.  I mean, even if you just want to play with it in your head, it would really answer a lot of questions.  I know it would take years to be 'ACCEPTED" but that doesn't mean we can't theroize on it!  You're right.  It makes total sense, and your illustration of the food or drugs being good for one but not another is an excellent example.  Why some people are more prone to diseases, why some have super high IQ's even, and others are "average", why some are super talented in specific fields, and others are talented at hardly anything.  Excellent food for thought.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 12:07:44 am
Yikes!  I just had a brainwave.  I have to find a map.  Hang on a bit.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 12:49:58 am
Okeee Dokee

Here's a theory for ya!  What if EVERYONE IS right? Personally, I say history is way older than we think, including the evolution of the human genome, I say it's possible the species was SEEDED, maybe several times, and somehow, this history was kept.  Whether it was by viewing the akashic records, or by the sound system, or race memories or whatever.  I don't know why the word "navel" popped into my head, but of course that brought back the book by the Rand-Flemagh's, about Atlantis being the Naval of the earth (and they say Antarctica.)  We know of the other theories and each argues for his preferred location.

I BELIEVE IT'S MOST IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP IN MIND THAT THE TIME LINE IS WAY, WAY OLDER THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY THE ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC LIMITS.  Also, that Plato WAS going back and forth in the time sequence.

I've been harping on I know, that the time lines are important.  I did it in Sarmast's forum, and I've done it at AR and I've done it here.
Because I think it's a key.  This idea just hit me as I was perusing the posts about Greenland as Atlantis.  They are discussing the "shape", like a triangle with a point.  How Greenland has a point, how Africa has a point, how India has a point etc.

I say all the theories of Atlantis are true.  It's the timeline that needs figuring out.    I'll post the one map here that's critical to this theory, but please check on page 9 of this thread to see all the maps, from the early beginnings when the land mass was a Pangea. (All in one). 

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/LateCretaceous-1.jpg) 

I think when you look at the above picture, you will grasp what I'm on about.  ATLANTIS WAS A GLOBAL COLONY BECAUSE IT STARTED OUT ALL IN THE SAME PLACE!

WHEN THE WORLD WAS A PANGEA.

Then the world started tearing apart. The break-up of Atlantis.   AFRICA WAS AN ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ATLANTIC FOR QUITE SOME TIME BEFORE SHE REACHED THE EASTERN POINT OF HER TRAVELS AND JOINED WITH THE EUROPEAN PORTION.

The "Royal City" or Temple City could have been on that part when she broke up, and Blue Hue would be correct in saying that it ended up where Arabia now is, as you can see from the above map, it is theorized that Africa and Arabia travelled together, altho what would eventually rise up out of the waters as Arabia, is still underwater.

This would explain all the discoveries on both sides of the world, it would explain the Bok Saga, it would explain tribes on each side of the world having the same myth and legend of coming from a place that was lost in the ocean, etc. etc.  It would explain how they knew there was land on the other side of the ocean in ancient times.  It would explain the eels going back to their breeding ground, it would explain the "pied piper" effect of the lemurs (I think it is) that try to go back to their place of origin and all march into the water.  It would explain how "man originated in Africa" and how that ancestry is now being located in the United States in view of the megalithic statues being found there.  It explains how the Atlanteans could go from their island to "other islands and the continent that surrounded the ocean.  It was definitely the "naval" of the world, because that's where it all started.  Right smack in the middle of that original Pangea, like a belly-button.  Atlantis - Atlas - the world - broke up.  But the final destruction was not that island in the middle of the ocean, because it had travelled west and joined Europe.  Plato's final destruction was of a city that was in the area that he was aware of.  The Atlanteans had colonies all over the world because they were on the land when it broke up.  The POWER came from the Atlantic.  Not the army.  The POWER. The KNOWLEDGE - the technology. 


Cayce says the western shore of Atlantis was off the modern Eastern seaboard.  Look at the map above. 

What would be then the Northern lands of Europe, probably didn't have as developed a civilization, at least not as technological as atlantis.  Remember, Plato says the Gods divided the world up amongst themselves but his story was about the tribe of Posidion as it were.  He does NOT SAY WHERE THE OTHER GODS STARTED THEIR TRIBES.  Except for the reference of the war 9000 years in the past when Athens was mightier than it had ever been.  This then, WOULD have been a war of the gods using the creatures they had created. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 01:20:47 am
Cayce says that originally, the spiritual beings entered into the animals and lost the ability to get out.  He said they "projected" an image and the image manifested as something that today we would not recognize as human.  THAT took evolution.  We have the Sumerian texts saying our DNA was messed with, we have scientists saying that Cro-mag, Homo Sapian etc., were all different genomes.  They say they find "quantum leaps" in the evolvement of humans, with nothing to explain that leap.  Some people say we are a holographic computer program, a projection.  Cayce says we ARE a projection, but from way in the beginning.  A thought projection.  If they found that the image they "projected" was not satisfactory, they changed it.  Maybe destroyed that "projection" and made another one, and then finally realized that all things needed to "evolve" and when their original "projection" reached a certain stage, they tweaked it with a few genetic alterations.  The original beings had all knowledge of the universe.  They were extremely long lived.  It took eons for them to degrade.  That's why the oldest buldings are the best.  They gradually lost the knowledge along with their spirituality. 

And it wasn't SO long ago, in comparison to their beginnings, that they finally quit communicating directly with the product of their creation.  In my mind, that was Naner Sin - leading Moses out of Egypt.  It was not the Creator of All Things leading Moses. God the Creator does not un-create, or destroy what he has made.  THAT is done by beings that lost their spirituality, but not their knowledge.  THAT is done by beings that held the opinion they were better than their creation.  Their creation that was developed to use as slaves.  They developed a "human" body of perfection for themselves, and did not cross breed with the lesser beings, until they became so base, that they found the "daughters of man" attractive.  We have giants, probably because it was a "creation" made for a certain purpose, and then destroyed because it was no longer useful, was ugly to them, or maybe turned against their creator.  Who knows, but it's a theory.  We could have different languages, maybe because of these beings trying to make speech when they were in the form of animals, maybe because their creations couldn't pronounce the words the same way, or MAYBE each 'GOD" taught it's creation a different language.  Maybe, each creation was different, as each God deemed what they thought was the perfect form for the environment. 
Thats My Theory - for now :D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 02:02:53 am
Cayce talks about a time when he was Ra-Ta the priest in Egypt.  He had been in exile but he was brought back because he "understood the Atlanteans".  He could communicate with them.  Therefore, I am assuming that the other gods, chose a different language, but that the priest Ra-Ta knew that language.  He also says he was looked upon as strange because of his body shape. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 08:44:23 am



I agree, Q.

I have been saying that Atlantis colonized the rest of the world from the Atlantic, forever.....
That's the reason for the similarities everywhere.  Too bad that people focus only on the
CAPITAL city.....

Let's face it, Rome did exactly the same with the PAX Romana:  wherever the Romans went,
they built the same amphitheaters, fora etc. that they had in the CITY of Rome.  Yet these
cities were never ROME.......


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on October 29, 2007, 12:07:50 pm
Yikes!  I just had a brainwave.  I have to find a map.  Hang on a bit.
Yikes!  I just had a brainwave.  I have to find a map.  Hang on a bit.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 29, 2007, 01:29:18 pm
B,

RE: "wherever the Romans went,
they built the same amphitheaters, fora etc. that they had in the CITY of Rome.  Yet these cities were never ROME....... "

I feel the same relates to the building of temples styled as the Parthenon.... all of them of the dimentions based on a formula that is still exactly used up into the last centuries in Scandinavia.... in wood.   Why that shape and dimention in STONE?.... because it is a copy of a more ancient form done in WOOD.  In stone it makes no sense to come up with that original design.   And they were all FIRST  done for temples... with the columns replicating the trunks of trees.... being encircled within a grove.
 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 01:38:16 pm


Yup, 

How about in this country?  Jefferson was so enamored by the Roman Pantheon, that

not only is the U.S. Capitol built in the same manner (check his design in "The Pantheon"
(my post).  But also his own home....

Have you ever been to Monticello, Va?

Oh, yes, the University of Virginia, too....


Furthermore Washington,. D.C. is a mixture of Graeco-Roman architecture.

I lived in that area for almost 20 years and I love it only second to Rome, itself.


******************************************************************************


ROCKESSENCE:



"Why that shape and dimention in STONE?.... because it is a copy of a more ancient form done in WOOD.  In stone it makes no sense to come up with that original design.   And they were all FIRST  done for temples... with the columns replicating the trunks of trees.... being encircled within a grove."




Definitely!!!

They used whatever was most abundant in their environment.

Also, the Romans copied the Greeks in architecture. 

Their talents lay 'elsewhere', ah!

Don't have much respect for "Imperial Rome", you know.....

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 04:34:19 pm
Hi Peoples
I know the theory has always been that the world was populated and colonized by the Atlanteans, from out in the Atlantic.  I rather figured also, that pretty much everything that was built, was a copy of an original.  Even the Bok Saga mentions that the cities were "rings" and the sound system is a "ring" or sound.

Since I think Plato's story is not in chronological order, but that is a TRUE story, received from the ones who actually were in possession of the story we just have to find the time frame.   If the time frame he is referring to back and forth in his story, is when Africa broke away from the mainland and was in the middle of the ocean, then the geographic description is excellent for the location of the country of Posidion - Atlantis.  Plato says "in the beginning - the Atlanteans were spiritual".   Cayce does too, but now that we have more knowledge of the "beginning", we have to assume this WAS back when the earth was forming.  Plato himself did not know how long in the past  the story was referring to.  Wherever the Temple City was built, it could be on any of the pieces of land that broke up, or it could be in the bottom of the ocean.  Personally, I don't see where people get the idea that it was just the city that was inundated.  Plato says the Athenian Army was sucked up into the earth, and in like manner Atlantis sunk in the ocean.  By "like manner" it would mean via the same cataclysm.  Being buried in a mud slide is a tad different that drowning in the ocean.  In "like manner" could just mean in a "similar" manner, in that the army and Atlantis both went "down". 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 05:20:26 pm



QUOTE:



'Personally, I don't see where people get the idea that it was just the city that was inundated.  Plato says the Athenian Army was sucked up into the earth, and in like manner Atlantis sunk in the ocean.  By "like manner" it would mean via the same cataclysm.  Being buried in a mud slide is a tad different that drowning in the ocean.  In "like manner" could just mean in a "similar" manner, in that the army and Atlantis both went "down"."



I agree with you, Q.

But the more I learn, the more I become convinced that the END was caused by NUCLEAR
means.

Either intentional (by an enemy) or by accident.

I lean more on the ACCIDENT.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 05:52:04 pm
Hi B
I've been thinking about that too.  I doubt that it was accidental tho.  Cayce tells about how the Sons of Belial were warned that what they were doing would mean destruction.  In the Vedas also, it seems like the "gods" were having a deliberate nuclear war. 

Plato's story doesn't tell about the other gods that had divvied up the world amongst themselves.  We only have the histories that have come down to us, mainly the GREEK histories, which according to Plato, are infantile that talk about "gods".  Or like say, the Scandinavian "gods".  I suspect that these are decendants of the "first" spiritual creatures that entered here, or  what we would call "clones".  So we don't really know what the other "gods" were up to while the Atlantians, Posidion's tribe, were busy nuking things and breaking up the land.  Perhaps, if the Atlanteans had left well enough alone, the land masses of the earth would still be a Pangea, all one. 
Scientists have so many theories.  We have plate tectonics, and we have the theory that the outer crust is floating on an inner liquid ball.  Fine.  If the outer crust is floating, then the whole crust would float in the same direction.  The land would still all be one piece.  The only way so far, that we have of explaining how the earth formed is a guess by the scientists, and Cayce's say so.  Perhaps, when Africa broke away from the central land mass, THAT mass was called Atlantis still because it MAY have had the royal city on it.  But Plato also says that the sons of Posidion had lands.  We don't know what all those lands were called.  But we are assuming that the portion that Plato refers to that sunk, kept the original name possibly because it DID have the Royal city on it and it was the original location of Clieto and her family.  He also says the way was blocked for "those" who sailed there.  Not necessarily meaning that people of the Med sailed there.  Plato talks about war, and the priest tells him that ancient Athens was set up much like Plato's idea of a perfect society.  But there are no details of the war itself.  There's no saying how many were in the war, if it was cavalry, or navy or what.  War-like men????  It is mentioned that each portion of land had to contribute to the army, but not how many of those were actually in this war.  (Like - how many dead people are in the cemetary?   ALL of them)  How many is ALL?

Regarding the different languages, we have the story of the Tower of Babel and how all the languages were confused.  I have a hard time believing that some dude waved a magic wand and instantly the people couldn't understand each other.  Unless the "people" were actually constructs like an android, but so advanced as to look human, possibly even to pro-create but they must have still been hard wired and someone turned the dial.  Or they were human and had implants.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 06:16:03 pm


Q.,

Contrary to Plato's opinion, the enemy that the Atlantians were at war with were not
the Athenians, but the Hindus.

Of course, the Athenians would think they were the enemy, they probably were never
aware of the Hindus.  Or maybe that part was intentional.  They felt too important to
admit it, after all, they were the survivors.  They were the ones to tell the tale.  And the
Egyptian priests were too far away to contradict them.......

If there was any altering of the tale, the blame falls on Solon, not Plato.

For the Atlantians, the nuclear power was generated by the crystal/crystals.  Something
happened THERE  that caused the cataclysm.  It was self-inflicted.  Don't ask me how
I know, I don't remember.  I just know I was there when it happened, in the Control Room.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 07:03:03 pm
Hi B
I used to figure that the Athenians part was for the value of the story for the Greeks.  In other words, Plato just made a substitution for the celebration of the goddess.  I wonder what Solon would have written, had he finished his poems?  There is nothing in the Athenian history that indicates THEY had advanced technology. 

It would not surprise me in the least, that the Atlanteans were fighting the Hindus.  So far, they're the only ones we know of that had the equal technology.  The Athenians, if involved at all, may have been caught in the cross-fire.  I've said it before, that altho Plato's story is true, it's not the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  I think the Vedas are a bit more truthful.  They didn't takes "sides" other than to explain who was revered more than whom.  To them ALL the gods were to be revered, but some were definitely "favorites". 

I agree with you that the cataclysm was self inflicted.  I mean if you see you're losing a war, you're going to give it everything you have left to take as many of the enemy with you as you can.  For all we know, the Hindus could have had control of "Europe as far as Athens and Asia as far as Egypt".  The Atlanteans had control of the area west of that, and maybe they were fighting over control of ATHENS AND EGYPT.  Not that the Egyptians and Athenians were fighting themselves.  Plato mentions nothing about the Egyptians being involved in this war. 




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 07:15:29 pm




I got this horrible feeling, AGAIN, of

           D E J A'   V U


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 07:41:34 pm
When did you get this "feeling"?  Were you reading about this war, talking about this war, what?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 08:37:30 pm






A long time now.  It's like I hear this voice in my head:  THINGS HAVE GONE TOO FAR.....


Of course, I'll never forget your posting part of the Cave of the Ancients, that first time.

That resonated with me so deeply, I almost went into a trance, it took me a while to shake

myself out of it.

Do you have any grandchildren, yet?

I worry myself sick over what the future holds for mine and others'.....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 29, 2007, 10:43:57 pm
Hi B - you're not going skitzoid on us are you  ;D Hearing voices and stuff?

I have two grandchildren, both special needs.  One is borderline Autistic and one is Diabetic.  Don't know what kind of life they can expect, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 29, 2007, 11:05:22 pm


quote:

Hi B - you're not going skitzoid on us are you   Hearing voices and stuff?



No, Q.

You're just 'getting to know me'.........

I hear voices and see ghosts.

Wish I was kidding.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 30, 2007, 03:16:34 am
*** Hi Bianca *** Now that we are on this subject . . . I'm curious about how you came to the realization that I have a GYPSY SOUL ? Did you find the article written in Spanish in the Sante Fe "New Mexican" the summer of 84 that refers to this very thing ? I'm very curious !       *o*


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 30, 2007, 07:01:52 am




That's what I 'heard' in my head, 3DDD......

hugs,
b


P.S.  What article?
Now, I got to track THAT down, too.........


How about some help here, 3DDD, this old woman is having "an achy day". 

Give me a link and I'll do the best translation I can, even though I don't have
a dictionary........


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 30, 2007, 10:18:25 am


OK, 3DDD:

I can't find the article in the "New Mexican".  I can't find its Spanish version, either.

LINK, please.



In the meantime, I found a couple more items from Greece.

Do I have YOUR permission to start a thread about you in the ARTS Section?

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 30, 2007, 11:00:56 am
*** THE KEY TO THE PHYSICS OF THE COSMOS *** Rockessence I take it you are talking about the overall shape and dimensions of the Temple ? The Dimensions of the Base of some Temples were based on the proportions of the Divine Rectangle or the Golden Section = PHI = 1.618034 that is derived mathematically from the structure of the Fibonacci Spiral. In otherwords in layman terms: The length = 1.618034 units and the width = 1 unit. In very basic terms these are the proportions of a human being lying comfortably on their back. Or the dimensions of the average single bed. PHI or the Golden Section is called "THE KEY TO THE PHYSICS OF THE COSMOS" by none other than the writer of the dimensions of the Rectangular Plain - Plato.       *DDn***   c.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 30, 2007, 02:40:14 pm
*** Oh my God ! Go ahead Bianca you have my permission. I can be very lazy when it comes to promoting myself ! This might inspire me to dig up some photos. I could use a quick million right now $$$ I dont have the Spanish article with me [I think it was published July 84]? It may even have been in The Albuquerque Journal? There were actually a number of articles and photos published in various papers that summer. I was very lucky ! Right place at the right time ! The Spanish historian/writer was a wonderful character by the name Pedro Ribera Ortega. Barbara Ellen Kochs' photo and article by Maria Higuera was front page of Section D of the Albuquerque Journal, Aug. 9 1984. Sydney Brinks' photo was The Front page of the Sunday New Mexican back in June 84. Thats all I can recall at the moment. I'm sorry I dont have any links. I hope you can find something with this bit of info. Bianca I would be so impressed if you could get into some of these archives !       *o*


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 30, 2007, 02:45:34 pm




Well, 3DDD,

THANK YOU !!!

I'm going to do the best I can.

In  the meantime, you get those "Gypsy Feet" to slow down enough in one spot for you
to dig up some photos.....

Ciao!

b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 30, 2007, 08:03:33 pm





Qoais and D3D, my dear Canadian Friends:



                                  Singer Robert Goulet dies at 73




(http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1150/2408_0013.jpg)



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obit_robert_goulet



(http://www.robertgoulet.com/comingsoon.jpg)

www.robertgoulet.com


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 30, 2007, 11:29:07 pm
Remember those "French Kids" I said I had as friends when I was a kid?

He was their cousin.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 31, 2007, 01:11:47 pm



One more, this one for 3DDD:

PEDRO RIBERA ORTEGA - died January 2003.

Wonderful obit here.  Too bad I couldn't transcribe it.  Hope you can read it.

http://www.nmhcpl.org/uploads/PEDRO_RIBERA_Ortega_A_Tribute.pdf


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on October 31, 2007, 03:17:12 pm
Hi Peoples
I know the theory has always been that the world was populated and colonized by the Atlanteans, from out in the Atlantic.  I rather figured also, that pretty much everything that was built, was a copy of an original.  Even the Bok Saga mentions that the cities were "rings" and the sound system is a "ring" or sound.

Since I think Plato's story is not in chronological order,

DEAR - -  QOAIS,
 sit back I am writing a comment and that will take me an hour



I  live very slowly so this is in reply of your last private message of Oct 20.

BLUEHUE's THEORY of Atlantis in ADEN:  THREADPOST IN " PLATO's ATLANTIS. . .

The ISLE of ATLANTIS is RAS- ADEN,  :(
RAS is punician meaning a Promotory or TOMBOLO which is a silt- Dyke and a CAPE is a rocky outcrop or CHERONEUS. NESSOS may have also two meanings.  anyway Plato said that this Island was connected to the mainland by an ISTHMUS = a demarcation trench.

As I was saying earlier: ATLANTIS is a possesional Prenoun and cannot exist without the affix ISLE so the original name without the affixed ISLE is not ATLANTIS but simply ATLANT(+ Tide= Land thus a Tautology.) or it should be AT-TIDE= AT Land !  Think of ATTI-CA


THETA is not T
In Greek the AT-lant ' T " is a larger letter thus a THETA thus ATLANT should be read ATHETA-Land ATHETA already means A.Land in itself so I Doubt whether the " Lant-or Land part is not a Doublett or repetition, in that case ATLANTIS were originally written thus ": ATHE "

ATHE is on any Large scale map of ADEN as the very PROVINCE that Aden is the capital of.
The other atlantologists at MELOS conference fell in that tourist trap lock stock and barrel. . .  :(

Most Atlantologists  may have done more Quotation work in very fine detaills than I have but they have NOT located Atlantis but persued falsh trails that lead them nowhere.

I only had logic as my tool that guided me right to Ras-Aden without the body of Quotations.

Atlantis in the Atlantic and 9.000 bc must be a MEDIA-Shortening, because PLATO used long sentences that could be cited shorter loosing as Little information as possible.

So the Sea of Atlas was an ofshoot of the Mare Erytraeum  which according to Herodotus was the GULF-of- ADEN. Columbus had the same Idea but called the Gulf of Aden  BRAZILLE-de-Mare

Through EDEN was a river ( LETHE or TYPHON, Later TUBAN.) that flowed out from the Mountain(= Meru/ Olympus/ Moria or EZEON/ Acheron SION(= Ras-Aden.) Etc.

This river divided itself in 4 Wind-Directions thus PISON would be EAT, KISOON(= Blue-Nile) is WEST, EPRAT/ Euhrates is the NORTH and TIGRIS if in Tigre-Ethiopia is the AWASH in SOUTH.

Today, Ras Aden is a submerged Volcano-Caldeira called a BAY with 50 meters deep bottom under which Hatti-Artefacts were found( in the Aden Museum.

The river" Leithe " has silted up the ancient PORT " of Atlantis " and at Ras IMRAM= biblical IREM, a new Port is dug I ignore whether archaeologists are present at these Off shore digging works

On the Central core mountain ht every volcano has stood a Mandala/ Kailasa Temple of POSEIDON.

POSEIDON is a complicated figure in as much that after the Assyrians had occupied Ras- Aden crater in 855 bc they demonised the God and his AVATAR the White arabian Elephant. a TABOO means a death without a Trial if these Elephants were kept alive or pictured on walls this explains why there are noWhite Elephants left since 855 bc in Arabia or elsewhere.

Plato only mentiones in a half line" there were Elephants grazing on artificial lakes in Atlantis period.  But subsequently he mentiones the worship of White Bull in the Temple. als he says that there were Flood/Tsunamy watchmen living in Guardhouses on the Temple mount

When these animals warned the Assyrians for an uncomming tsunami the inhabitans fled leaving the pig-ignorant Assyrian garrizon to the brunt of the recurrent Tusnamies arouind 855 bc.

The might of the Assyrian king Salmanassr-3 was so great that even in India the priests felt compelled to virtually kill the two gods Indra & Rudra that rode on White Elephants as their vehicle.

They were merged into a new god that did not exist prior to 855 bc his name was Shiva and the White elephant vehicle was named AIR- A- WATAR or freely translated, Elephant that could ' fly-over-Water'.

In greek myth too the White elephant as an Animal was declared taboo and was removed from Myth litterature as a NAME, but other allusions to the Beast called Elephants are in multitude:

NAMES for the TABOoED White arabian Elephant:
EL is sinonymous to GOD and EL-Elephant  ELEPHANT is a honorary title of the voracious beast
ATLANTIS litterally means Elephant Country but I prefer Haven. Elephant means GOD of PONTOS.
In Myth PONTOS is the Father of OCEANOS.

The very geo word ARABIA- FOELIX means Elephant country from Arab-White Bia is Holi and PHULBE= Water-spirit.  The romans retained the ARAB bit but changed the4 PHULBE part into FELIX which means Happy Islands of the BLEST.

PILLARS of Chronos/ Heracles and Arabia Felix both mean just White Elepnat Country not Mountains or Stoneslab Stelae I one thoght myself that PILLARS meant PYLONS, like in the phrase the 100 gates of Thebes these were temple-gates not City gates.but on second thought I was wrong.  thus the pillars of hercules are Phules or Sea-Water spirits These were the Steeds of Poseidon SEA horses are thus Elephants

In biblical-Iconography in GENESIS 4-6 God which is a jeallous God called KAMOSES ordered the White aradise tree snake to crawl in the Dust and Eat dust for his misdeed of advising ADAM & EVE to eat from the tree of Knowledge.  ADAMas is ATHAMAS and EVE is NEFELE or rather the brother of this Jeallous God thus AAHMOSES and EVE is a media-SDhortening for Great-Queen Amose Neferti-Mery-AMUN, who was also the first GOD's Wife in egyptian religious history.

Originally all the 18-th dynasty Kings were titulary king of Hadramut/Yemen (= israel in the totah also.also  but this FRANKINCENSE producing Country was soon a bone of contention between Egypt and Assyria/ Babylonia.

The Assyrians souht to dislodge Hadramaut from the egyptian Empire by forcing individual Pacts with the nations in the Table of Nations mentioned in Judges/ Joshua. thies socaled friendly treaties were a crime in anticipation like in the Maffia.

First SaLMANASER-3 WOULD SIHN A FRIENSHIP TREATY WITH A KINGLETT STIPULATING THAT HE WOULD " PROTECT " that tiny state against their( as of yet NON-) agressive neighbours and than stage insurgencies and temperory Assyrian-Army' GUEST'occupations, which ofcourse were recorded by thos surrounding Nations that had NON signed a treaty of' Mutual-Assistence" with Assur.

The El-AMARNA letters are a proof of that Policy. formerly the Assyrians were tributaries to the owner of Hadramaut the egyptian Crown and so Salmanasser was a vice-roy of Egypt and his name in the bible is ABDI-ASHERA meaning Great-king of ADEN(= Escheria or Hyperia or ACHAD/ Akkad. AGADE/ Gadeiras.)

But we know what the egyptian governor wrotee to his Lord about the treacherous FOX called ABDI-Ashera./Ashirta.who professed loyalty while plundering his intimidated subjects

Than in the year 842  bc the ultimate insult to Egypt;s Hegemony of this  happy peacefull " Middle-Egypt Theocratic State happend. Salmanasser instructed the First Prophet of Ammon in Yemen  called ELISHA, to bribe the  local army commander general HOREMHEB into accepting  the petty kingship over israel as Salmanasser's vassal-King. and break alleaguions with his brother of the Pharaoh AMENHOTEB-4

Amenhoteb=-4 was than king of israel under the name ACHASHIA and he was almost killed by his halfbrother HOREMHEB, who even persued him on his cart to afek, where Achasia fell through the roof with Horemheb, in hot persuit and broke his bellybutton cord by which it seemed as if he had a fat belly in his Tomb wall-portraits.

the same yesr 842 bc General Horemheb is shown on an ssyrian tribute-Stellae as JEHU the King of Israel from the House of OMRI(= the grandfather of Horemheb/Jehu.) now in greek myth Heracles(= Horemheb) is always known as the beloved son of ZEUS (= Salmanasser-3.) and he was only allowed to become a HALF-God ( meaning vassal-King of ASSUR,.) after his death( in
775 bc.)

MEANWHILE Amenhoteb-4 consoled his lost of arabia in much the same way that RAMESSES-2 would do 200 years later: start a building programm with gigantixc statues of himself and forget all about Jerusalem KADES= Ras-ADEN.

El AMARNA or ACHET-ATON was supposed to be the virtual copy of Atlantis capital/Aden ( but no copy of Atlantis city was the same because, the original circular city-layout meaning that not all had circular rings because they were not re-built in a volcano-caldeiras.

 the children of Achnaton & Nefertete were crowned as virtual Kings of Israel/ Atlantis/ Aden, and thus wore the cartonnage Atlantis crowns  called HEM- HEM or TATENEN, where the taboed Elephants were represented by two" Pillars" or Watersnakes.

On the otherside the egyptian Pharaoh was elevated by Salmanasser as the Assyrian BHAAL=God called RESHEPH which was a white Elephant king, wearing an Elephants hide as a harnass and a white Crown of upper Egypt signifying a white Elephants head with rolled up THRUNK and red feathers representing the Tusks. these are also the attributes of Osiris as a death immage.

I do not know at which precise year Osiris became prominent as the King of the Underworld, but I claim that this was around 855 bc when Egypt lost the arabian territory to the Assyrians.

I also claim that  Osiris is ADAM and AHMOSE,  Isis and Nepthys were; Amose Neferti-Mery-AMUN and her daughter SITA-KAMOSE.

The assyrian King Salmanasser-3 may have had the impression that with the Israelian kingdom in hadramaut ferm in his hand an a brother of the egyptian king on it's throne that he also got the whealth of that Kingdom but ignored that thes  only consisted of State subsidies, not of a cashflow.

Thus from switching the AQMUN priesthoodsubsidies to builtding an ATON Temple in Achet-Aton he copuld finance that project that most buildings were of Plaster did not spoil the significance of the Aton Temple.

In Greek Myth, HYPERION is the SUN or PHOEBUS but HELIOS is not the DAY SUN but the NIGHT SUN, thus the Elephants as Princes of the Night/ Bulls of HElios means that they were avatars of the MOON, the  " Splendours of Israel " .

The layout of the Atlantis city was in a subsided volcano-caldeiras thus it was not circulr anymore but Oval, only theupperhalve of the Circle moats were preserved and were thus shaped like a Cresent resembling the CHANUKKA cande and the PLAUIN surrounding the City was thus a central-Plain not a ringed field.

The Caldeira walls had eroded over time and Plato mentioned them as Low horseshoe shaped mountains, decending toerds the Sea shielding the innercity from the north winds in wintertime.
I cannot prove that because all the Picture illustrating ARTIST-impressions show Atlanyis in Circle-form with  high mountains in the distance but no Volcano-Wall envellope, the city capital of ' Atlantis' must have loojed like a giant BEE-HIVE but no Artist shows that .  So every mai-stream Atlantologist says that they were not there because the artists did not read PLATO's text very well.

About the Canals they were in the upper halve above sea-level in the subsided-volcano-caldeiras, the plain was on the main Saelevel and suffered brackish tidalwaves.
King DAVID was Thutmoses-2 and he only ruled 4 to 6 years as an egyptian Pharaoh, but he improved the Temple mount greatly.

He had the ISTHMUSin the KEDRON vally filled up and buildt a strong Stonewall across the Mid section connecting two outerwalls with the Palace in the Middle. and infront of the HarbourPillars+ two secondary volcanoes caled the TREES of Life and death he connected with a rubble dam called the MILLO of DAVID, leaving a free arch in the middle for the cannal's entrance.

There were no mercnts ships inside this volcano irrigation Plain thus atlantis had an outerharbour, acroos or over these irrigation/ditch cannals 39 meter wide bridges were bult not to have traffic on them but to capture condenced water vapor/in cisterns along the analwalls, because the fresh water in Atlantis came from hot thermal geysers and were brackish or tasted like ' Seven-Up " when cooled down.

Triremes as a mesure for the width of the( 9?) canals are an anachronism because in 366 bc these triremes for war seems not to have been invented yet.

Another Anachronism is the  tken for granted  GEO-names of ASIA  & Lybia.  these were Latin names introduced by the Romans 110 years after PLATO's death.

We tend to forget that in Plato's days a country named ASIA was akways Arabia only when the omans in 133 bc started to rename PERGAMUM to ASIA(=Minor) the original ASIA got the EPITHAPH" -Major" attached to it, likewise with west-LYBIA the original LYBIA was in the EAST and thus a part of EAST AFRICA precisely that Part which is now called ERYTRAEA and is indeed opposite the PORT of Atlantis/ADEN. Somalia must in this scenario be the Anti-ATLAS or GADEIRAS unless ADEN was also called GADEIRAS(= Holi-Garden-City.)

I may have forgotten something not the 9600 bc by a virtual Solon hese figures were fabled not by Plato, but by the latin interlopers or glosses.

I hope that I have answered some questions that you have asked me to explain the other day !
 Bianca say that I repeat things and say nothing new and thus sound like a broken RECORD, but untill most Atlantologists are convinced that I speak the relative Truth I have tio preach the same story over and over to the ' infidels '. before i can do real researh and go over the relevent Quotation sources.

I'll have to dot the ies , correct the misspellings and and add Capital letter sanother day.

Sincerely yours, ' BlueHue' dd. 31 Oct- 2007 :(  -  :(


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 31, 2007, 05:50:36 pm
.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 31, 2007, 05:58:13 pm
,


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on October 31, 2007, 06:21:37 pm
.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on October 31, 2007, 07:41:57 pm
"Please forget the FOOLISHNESS OF THE LAST THREE POSTS!!!"

Hey B,

We do have a "modify" button.....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on October 31, 2007, 07:45:39 pm
Blue Hue - I think your theory is very sound.  You have covered a lot of details from different angles.  You really should work on your presentation of your theory.  What I have gathered so far, is that you do believe this war that Plato talks about was a localized war, altho it seems that there was in-fighting amongst the royal family of Egypt.  I am understanding too, that by this time in history, people had really spread out from Arabia, and probably broke into splinter groups.  I'm referring to the passage that says "they had control of Libya to Egypt and Europe to Tyrennia".  If they had control of the trade routes and merchandising, they more or less also controlled the employment opportunities!  I understand what you're saying about the change of meaning of words, and I understand that different names could mean the same person.  
I realize that if you're correct, then we do know where Atlantis is, we'd just have to once again, work the time-line.  I am talking here about the "Atlanteans" mentioned in Plato, as I firmly believe that they ORIGINATED somewhere outside the known countries, maybe from an island in the Atlantic, maybe from S. America, or maybe Plato's time line of their origins goes back to when Africa was floating around out there itself.  I do believe the history of the Atlanteans is very ancient.  But when we get to this war Plato is talking about, I'm wondering why he used the term Atlanteans, instead of whatever the people called themselves by that time.  

Can you give me a short synopsis of who was fighting this war referred to by Plato?  I'm seeing Arabs and Egyptians, with a few other factions joining forces.  Is that your theory?  Like - is it because of the power struggle for Egypt, who's dirt seemed to be made of gold (due to all the gold mines) and the fact that it had that fertile delta to supply groceries?  Basically, are you saying that these Atlanteans then, would be today's Arabs?  And that those Arabs were in-fighting for control of the whole Med. area?  In other words, were the Tolemys (sp) - the Phaoahonic dynasty of Egypt - originally Arabs - originally Atlanteans?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 01, 2007, 11:42:54 am
Hi Bianca,
I was only kidding about the skitzo stuff you know.  I've never seen ghosts myself, but my daughter had some in her house.  One of her friends mom is a parapsychologist, so they invited her over and they made contact.  Turned out it was a young girl whose brother from a previous life, lived next door to my daughter and they were friends. 
Another thing that was kind of strange, was before my daughter had children, all kinds of things were going on and she asked me what to do as she knew I was a bit phycic.  She'd sit down to watch her TV program and the Tv would turn off.  She'd turn on the light in te bathroom  or whatever, and it would go out, and then she thought she heard children laughing.  Guess it got to be quite a pain in the butt.   I told her to speak to the children just as if they were her own, and ask them politely to leave the TV on when she wanted to watch and please don't turn out the light because then she couldn't see, etc.  They did stop doing those things, but they didn't leave.
The same lady who contacted the ghost, came over to "read" the house, and it turned out there was two children who had lived on that property in the past and had been burnt in a house fire.  I told my daughter that she would likely be mother to these 2 children.

When she had her first child, a girl, she said that so often she would wake in the night as the child seemed to be talking to someone.  She went to see what was going on and the baby was laughing and giggling and looking just beyond where my daughter was standing. 
Eventually, she had her son too, and all the strange happenings have stopped and after that, her daughter slept thru the nite with no giggling sessions.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on November 01, 2007, 12:03:28 pm




LOL, Q.,



I was not kidding and it's not THAT kind of ghost 'seeing'.


I am a Spiritualist.
 

You'll get an idea of what I am saying from this, in AO's WORLD RELIGIONS:


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,2144.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on November 01, 2007, 03:51:52 pm




BTW,


Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was one of the Founders of Modern Spiritualism.


No wonder his novels are so enlightened!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 05, 2007, 04:10:45 pm
When you have an 'I Hate My Job' day, try this:

                  On your way home from work, stop at your pharmacy and go
                  to the thermometer section and purchase a rectal
                  thermometer made by Johnson & Johnson

                  Be very sure you get this brand. When you get home, lock
                  your doors, draw the curtains and disconnect the phone so
                  you will not be disturbed.


                  Change into very comfortable clothing and sit in your
                  favorite chair. Open the package and remove the
                  thermometer. Now, carefully place it on a table or a
                  surface so that it will not become chipped or broken.

                  Now the fun part begins. Take out the literature from the
                  box and read it carefully. You will notice that in small
                  print there is a statement:


                  'Every Rectal Thermometer made by Johnson & Johnson is
                  personally tested  and then sanitized '.


                  Now, close your eyes and repeat out loud five times,'I am
                  so glad I do not work in the thermometer quality control
                  department at Johnson & Johnson.'


                  HAVE A NICE DAY AND REMEMBER, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE
                  ELSE WITH A JOB THAT IS MORE OF A PAIN IN THE ASS THAN
                  YOURS!



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on November 05, 2007, 04:37:51 pm






ROTFLMAO, Q.......

I think I'll send it to a bunch of my friends!!!

b













Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on November 07, 2007, 02:59:52 pm
This civil war was between King KAMOSES & AHMOSES over their Sister the Heiress SITA ( Amose.)
in the Bible they were renamed SETH and ADAM and Sita  was Lillith, in Greek they are PROMETHEURS= Fire bringer & Epimethyeus = water bringer Sita would be Pyrrah in the Deukalion Flood more next week.
Bianca thinks that I have bungled this threadd of yours :(  :(  :(  sorry for the misspellings : bad eyesight !


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 07, 2007, 03:41:31 pm
Hi BlueHue
Not to worry.  I would like it tho, if you would put dates in your posts, because as I've said before, I can't keep the dates straight and who ruled when or what their numerous names were. 

So - this civil war - was at what date?   


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on November 07, 2007, 03:53:53 pm


Sorry, Blue Hue!

Bianca


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 12:50:49 am
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DENDERAH20BULBS20FLSH20486.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 12:53:35 am
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DEN20FLASH20BEST.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 08, 2007, 01:11:51 am
Very nice Qoais!  Where did you find those?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 01:13:40 am
Still working on it Rocky!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 08, 2007, 01:24:45 am
It's interesting that the serpents are being shown as "illuminated"!  As they should be, being symbolic of wisdom, and of the sperm-line of the All-father.  Also this is another example of two serpents, of two sperm-lines, a theme that has come up quite a bit lately.  Boreas indicated it may mean the two All-fathers, east and west, perhaps Zeus and Jupiter...


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 01:48:09 am
I'm sure that those of you who have read my posts, know that I first started my "quest" because I believed the Ark of the Covenant was an "appliance" of some kind that used electricity. I then was researching what would make it work. I've posted different theories and thought I'd try to imitate the Ark if I could, without all the gold plate and stuff. I was hoping I might "borrow" one of the coils that my husband uses in the Model-T's but what with one thing and another, I didn't do it.
Then of course, the theory expands to the point where the conversation turns to questioning the purpose of the Great Pyramid , was it a power plant? If it was, where did the Egyptians get this "technology"? From their forbears, the Atlantians? Or from others like the Anunnaki?
Actually, they could have developed it themselves. They had copper wire and they had carbon. I'm actually kind of ashamed that I forgot this type of "power".


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 01:51:20 am
When I first saw this picture, I immediately thought "Oh, she's got her own flashlight".

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/NefertariwithFlashlight.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:02:14 am
Continued from previous page...

The story of the arc of the Ark of the Covenant apparently began after "Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn more, and keep, and do them." The fifth chapter of Deuteronomy goes on to state that "the Lord talked with you [Moses] face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire."  One would logically think that the God of this infinite universe would find a more pivotal place to dwell than in a fitful fire on a dry dusty mountain on this paltry planet; but reason steadfastly bows to these suspicious words that are cherished by orthodox Jews and Christians today.


Nevertheless, speaking further on the Hebrew god's commandments, Moses went on to point out that "I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord, for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up unto the mount."  So, to solve this problem, he moved the fire god off the mountain down to the tribes, and he placed him between two cherubim on an oblong box with two carrying poles.


"What exactly these cherubim were, is impossible to determine," states The Catholic Encyclopedia, "however, from the analogy with Egyptian religious art, it may well be supposed that they were images, kneeling or standing, of winged persons.  It is worth noticing that this is the only exception to the law forbidding the Israelites to make carved images, an exception so much the more harmless to the faith of the Israelites in a spiritual God because the Ark was regularly to be kept behind the veil of the sanctuary.  The form of the Ark of the Covenant was probably inspired by some article of the furniture of the Egyptian temples."


Pictures of more popular, modern arrangements of the ancient Hebrew Ark or Arc of the Covenant found in bibles and elsewhere, are different. However, the angelic images or cherubim on top of the chests are certainly not accurate depictions of the ancient home of the Hebrew god Yahweh.  Why?



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:12:23 am
Regardless of the pretension of an "only exception," set forth by The Catholic Encyclopedia above, the answer lies in a full rendering of the second of Moses's Ten Commandments, which has been abbreviated and placed on popular plaques like the one above. Although the Hebrew light god is said to have forbade the worshiping of graven images by uttering to Moses: "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me," this is not all of the Second Commandment.  These revered words, dispensing ruthless injustice on innocent progeny, are immediately preceded by those of Exodus 20:4, which command: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below."


Furthermore, Deuteronomy 27: 15 says, “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.”  Nevertheless, the pertinent point being made here is that the "graven or molten" angelic cherubim of the Arks  demonstrated in the popular versions shown in bibles, on TV, and elsewhere,  would never have been fabricated by the ancient Hebrews because the second commandment absolutely forbids doing so.


However, the two cherubim or two chunks of blazing carbon (if gold plated) of an electric arc light in the illustration would have nicely complied with the Hebrew fire god's restrictions.
The Old Testament book of Exodus, which describes the building of the Ark (Arc) of the Covenant in detail, points out that Moses assigned to the task craftsmen who were skilled in cutting stones (carbon included) and in working gold. The book says: "Thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." Gold leaf can be beaten down to 1/250,000 of an inch, and it would have wrapped around the cherubim(s) or carbons easily. But why? The answer lies in the fact that gold would increase the conductivity of the carbons, and protect the ends of the carbons near the arc, thereby prolonging their life.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/CarbonArc.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:15:13 am
And the chapter goes on to say that "the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings [arcs] on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [ends] shall look one to another."  And Moses's fire god supposedly goes on to say, "I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony."  Furthermore, the 22nd Chapter of II Samuel describes the Hebrew arc light god by claiming, "He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.  And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly:  and he was seen upon the wings of the wind." And, "Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled."  Here the wings on the cherubim (carbons) are more aptly explained, not as metallic wings, but as wings of the wind, the arc flashing through the air.  Fiery coals and carbons are synonymous.  Could one today explain any better the bright bowing arcs of the ancient electric carbon arc light?

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ArcBow.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:20:44 am
The holy Scripture as well as other reliable written testimony still extant, and the hard evidence engraved in stone monuments, all strongly indicate that, for religious as well as practical purposes, priests like Moses and Aaron, who directed the course of beliefs and events in antiquity, illuminated their authority by conspicuously placing brilliant electric arc lights in their temples, churches, and icons.

To help make the point, here is an animated comparison of an ancient Egyptian iconic ark light god at the temple at Denderah and a possible depiction of the same type of god in the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant. The searchlight on the bow represents the radiance of the horned (powerful) light god in the center.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ArkFlash.gif)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:25:39 am
This animation of the ancient Egyptian ark (arc) removes all the molten images and likely depicts a more complete Hebrew (Jewish) arc light.  The serpent springing over the arc-light god's pedestal (the so-called "mercy seat") represents an undulating electric arc winging its way through the air between two carbons or cherubim,  The first electric light that the world ever saw was produced by lightning, snaking its way across the heavens; and the ancients naturally compared the undulating light of the celestial serpent to the slithering asp that can also strike mankind. The ancient Greek biographer Plutarch tells us in Moralia that the Egyptians honored the serpent, and, "They compare the asp to lightning."  So a manmade arc light and heavenly lighting are quite synonymous, both are electrical and often look and act like a serpent.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Electricarc.gif)

Furthermore, the yellow color of a cobra and a snake's hissing are quite comparable to some of the features of an electric arc light, not to speak of the hissing sound in the name Isis, the ancient Egyptian goddess of light.  Slingo and Brooker's Electrical Engineering for Electric Light points out that "The light emitted by an arc lamp actually approaches in quality more nearly to the solar luminous rays than does that of any other artificial illuminant, although the light of the arc itself contains in reality a larger proportion of orange or yellow rays than does the light of the sun."  In his 1905 edition of Electricity in Every-Day Life, Dr. Edwin J. Houston, a renowned authority and author of numerous books describing electric arc lights, tells us that "As long as the carbons [cherubim] are maintained at the proper distance apart, and are supplied with a current of constant strength, the arc will burn quietly.  If, however, these conditions are not maintained, various noises will be heard.  Where the distance between the carbons is too small, or where the carbons are so soft that comparatively large quantities of vapor are liberated, hissing sounds will be heard."





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:37:23 am
Speaking of the similarities of the ancient Egyptian and Jewish arks, volume one of The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopaedia and Scriptural Dictionary states: "The points of resemblance to the Jewish ark, are many and conspicuous, as in the 'stand,' which, in some of its forms, and leaving out the figures represented on the sides, bears so close a resemblance to the written description of the Hebrew ark that it may safely be taken as an authentic illustration of its form."
Please watch picture for a moment.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/UntrimmedArk.gif)
According to Oxford Professor A. H. Sayce's Early History of the Hebrews, "Babylonia also had its arks [arcs], its mercy seats, and the cherubim [carbons], and Nebuchadrezzar speaks of 'the seat of the oracles' in the great temple of Babylon 'whereon at the festival of Zagmuku, the beginning of the year, on the 8th and 11th days, Bel, the god, seats himself, while the gods of heaven and earth reverently regard him, standing before him with bowed heads.' The cherubim, indeed, were of Babylonian origin, and their presence in the tabernacle seems somewhat inconsistent with the prohibition to make a carven image." Of course, Sayce was not aware that the cherubim were natural carbons which complied with Moses's Hebrew light god's instructions. We also should keep in mind that the Hebrew patriarch Abraham came out of Ur, a city of ancient Babylonia, so he may have been responsible for sending the electric light technology to Egypt, which in turn gave it to Moses and his Hebrews. The Babylonians may have gotten it from the Atlanteans, but that is another story.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:40:34 am
a Babylonian version of the Egyptian ark with its electric carbon arc light. Note the dual-headed serpentine divinities controlling the searchlight while Shamash, the Sun god sits on the "second sun's" battery pack with a coil of wire in his hand and a carbon rod. For a detailed explanation and translations of the cuneiform writing on this artifact that dates back to around 850 B.C., see The Electric Mirror on the Pharos Lighthouse and Other Ancient Lighting. After reading a translation of the text that accompanied this strange artifact, found near where the ancient Baghdad batteries were discovered, you should have no doubt that electric carbon arc lighting was known and used in Babylonia.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/BabylonianElectricCarbonArcLight.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 02:46:48 am
For more on the Ancient Carbon Arc Light, go to :
http://ancientskyscraper.com/118901.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 03:35:55 am
Remember Nefertari's Headdress?
Looks like B to me!  Wiring schematics, bulbs and batteries at Denderah.

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/HeaddressLights.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/NefertariwithFlashlight.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 08, 2007, 08:34:12 am
Hi Qoais

I think that there can't be that much coincidence. Electricity, power generation, when you think how long it took us to develop electricity, we can only go Back, way back in time. The knowledge must have passed onto new generations.

http://www.sheikmousa.com/images/arial-view-sinai.jpg

Amazing, enlightenment.  8)

regards,
mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 08, 2007, 03:26:56 pm
Whatever she's carrying in her left hand, could possibly be a "ground-wire" so that the static electricy from the sand, didn't cause a short in her apparatus.  This needs only be a very fine filament wire, seemingly invisible.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 09, 2007, 08:21:03 am
Qoais,

I think, Ancient Civilizations, had already an "electric" knowledge and passed it passed onto Egyptians. I have reasons to believe Atlantis was might have been energetically sufficient, somehow, Iceland is going to be energetically auto sufficient in 2025. They have sound thermo energy (geysers) as well as wind potential. It could then be very possible for this knowledge to exist and to an unknown extent of sophistication. I am ,therefore convinced that this must be true. In fact, you have discovered (were you the first one?) an Ancient Electric System, more or less like the "Antikythera Mechanism". With no predecessor nor Successor. When i look at your pictures i convince myself that my theory might be right, please if you care to look at possible Atlantis Jewels found in connection to the Bock Saga, they really show some possible connections to what you are talking about. Thus, regarding an Older Age or, even Egypt's other contemporaneous Civilization. I thought i saw some kinds of electrical assembly. I will link it here, if you don't mind:


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http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125815156094220306
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125840809933879394
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125842704014456946
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125842708309424290
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125844658224576706
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125844658224576722
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125844666814511362
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125846608139729170
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125848648249194850
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125848661134096802
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125851208049703362
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125860141581679218
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125860137286711906
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125860145876646546
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125860145876646546



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Please tell me your opinion, i am not, in anyway an expert. Are you familiar with gold plate?

"Gold plating is a method of depositing a thin layer of gold onto the surface of another metal, most often copper or silver, by chemical or electrochemical means.


Gold plating
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



regards,
mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 09, 2007, 08:29:07 am
I forgot to include this:

[...]"Gold plating is often used in electronics, to provide a corrosion-resistant electrically conductive layer on copper, typically in electrical connectors and printed circuit boards.

With direct gold-on-copper plating, the copper atoms tend to diffuse through the gold layer, causing tarnishing of its surface and formation of an oxide and/or sulfide layer.

A layer of a suitable barrier metal, usually nickel, is usually deposited on the copper substrate before the gold plating. The layer of nickel provides mechanical backing for the gold layer, improving its wear resistance. It also reduces the impact of pores present in the gold layer.

Both the nickel and gold layers are usually deposited by electroplating. Electroless plating is used as well, however the deposited layer is unsuitable for long-term corrosion protection nor for wire bonding, as the resulting layer is typically only 97% pure and thin (0.5-0.75 µm). As the deposit is based on displacement of some of the copper, electroless nickel plating may be unsuitable for boards with very fine traces.

At higher frequencies, the skin effect may cause higher losses due to higher electrical resistance of nickel; a nickel-plated trace can have its useful length shortened three times in the 1 GHz band in comparison with the non-plated one. Selective plating is used, depositing the nickel and gold layers only on areas where it is required and does not cause the detrimental side effects.[2]

Gold plating may lead to formation of gold whiskers."[...]

Gold plating
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stirling_Engine.jpg

I think i saw something similar on your pictures, sorry for being this vague, but, again, i am not an "expert".


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 09, 2007, 10:22:56 am
Mario,

What does this head look like to you?

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125846608139729170

again, larger:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125844658224576722

Also, what do you think of this?

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5128404059301034738


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on November 09, 2007, 02:02:41 pm
Hi BlueHue
Not to worry.  I would like it tho, if you would put dates in your posts, because as I've said before, I can't keep the dates straight and who ruled when or what their numerous names were. 

So - this civil war - was at what date?  

Dear  QOAIS,


Civil WAR in Atlantis
was inbetween 1055- 50 bc which is also the time-span of Moses Exodus

in the Bible it said 40 Years !
I have sent a lengthy Private message explaining my Subscript in BLUE at the bottom of this Post   Thank You for reading it, and your nice comments     Sincerely  ' BlueHue ' dd. 11 nov. 2007  :(. :(

PS
 All the electric night lamps and the Flying Arks did not help Pharaoh Rammesses-2 to protect himself from the bad advice of Prophet JEREMIAS against fighting the Babylonians in jerusalem, nor did it prevent, recapture CARCHEMISH by king Muwattalis-Mursillis-2, whom Dr Velikovsky and several other scholars in his wake identified as NABO-POL-ASSAR.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 09, 2007, 02:34:08 pm
Rockessence,

I will tell you what my daughter Sofia (7 years) and my niece Iris (5 years) saw first, they are less "biased" than us. As no one wants to look at them long enough, i can't help to ask for a second opinion, so i just got two "previewers" with good results.

They told they saw a frightened little monkey, whose hands were tied up and also the ears had been clipped or something. They insisted that his eyes were wide open. At least this is what i managed to interpret from their speech.
They told me also that below the face there seemed to be organs linked together, (like an Anatomic cut) my father is a Cardiologist who is trying to make them follow his carrer and have plenty of books about kidneys, heart, etc... and so they know that much.


http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5125844658224576722


I, for one, thought that the "little monkey" was handling something (there is a sort of keyboard), also there are only three fingers on each hand. Which is several times repeated in other images (if you want me to link some, with Qoais permission, of course). They also appear to have "intravenous" liasons?

I don't think you ask about their artistic level? I think that is another thing.
Anyways, what i can tell you is that there are not many pictures like this, they look like modern Stern's jewelery for their complexity and simplicity. Also there is the climatic aspect:

- Lions and other tropical animals are depicted in fighting with one another, as a normal daily "scene". Those who made these artifacts must have lived in "paradise".

but tell me your opinion, i keep saying this, i could not see everything.


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Regarding this  particular image

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5128404059301034738

I think a sculptor cannot portray anything unless he's there to witnesss. That is a perfect "solo".


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[...]Zion appears 154 times in the Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament). Some examples from the book of Psalms, which have been frequently recited and memorized by Jews for centuries, state:



        * "By the rivers of Babylon we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion." (Psalms 137:1)

        * "For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?  (Psalms 137:3-8) (King James Version, with italics for words not in the original Hebrew)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[...] Zion (Hebrew: צִיּוֹן, tziyyon; Tiberian vocalization: tsiyyôn; transliterated Zion or Sion) is a term that most often designates the Land of Israel and its capital, Jerusalem. The word is found in texts dating back almost three millennia. It originally referred to a specific mountain near Jerusalem (Mount Zion), on which stood a Jebusite fortress of the same name that was conquered by David and was named the City of David.

Zion came to designate the area of Jerusalem where the fortress stood, and later became a metonym for Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, the city of Jerusalem and the entire Promised Land to come, in which, according to the Hebrew Bible, God dwells among his chosen people.[...]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[...]For Rastafarians, Zion is to be found in Africa, and more specifically in Ethiopia, where the term is also in use. Some Rastas believe themselves to represent the Children of Israel in modern times, and their goal is to repatriate to Africa, or to Zion. Rasta reggae is peppered with references to Zion; among the best-known examples are the Bob Marley songs '"Zion Train," "Iron Lion Zion,"[...]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zion
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Please have in mind that all of this is speculative?



regards,
mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 09, 2007, 03:24:56 pm
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/HPIM0056.jpg)

I'm sure most everyone knows what this picture is.  It's an old-fashioned soldering gun.  (I haven't polished it for quite a long time!)

I've posted the picture to help explain a little bit about soft metal working.  I'm no expert that's for sure.

The bottom "cup" or container holds the fuel - whether it be kerosene, stove oil, whale oil or whatever one had to hand.  After you put the fuel in, you "pressurize" the contents by pumping that handle up and down, that's on top of the filler hole.  Much like the kerosene lamps that had the "filament" light instead of a wick.  The "tap" on the left adjusts the flow of fuel.  You open the tap, light the gas that is being released (very much like an oxy./acet. welder) and you heat the soldering rod in the flame.  The soldering rod in the picture is mounted in brackets on top of the unit.

Gold is a very soft metal, and melts easily.  It would not surprise me that the Bok people had something similar in which to heat the gold and work it. 

The second method, of working gold, is of course the electroplating, which does not take much of a charge.  However, with electroplating, one does need the proper chemicals to treat the base metal with first.  (I can't remember what they are).  It is very important to have the base metal spotlessly clean before the chemicals are applied.  Then, the finished product must be polished at a high speed, or mega-hours of hand polishing.

Another method, is dipping, wherein you have your original art work, you melt the gold, and then dip the piece into it.  (You do have to have a container that will hold the hot gold of course - like a cast iron kettle or pot) The article may have to be dipped more than once to get an overall covering.  One can also pour gold, which is great for flat objects, but not for such things as bracelets that need to be worked.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 09, 2007, 03:37:06 pm
At first glance, it does look like a little monkey.  But if you look hard at the face, it looks like this being is wearing a helmut.  It makes a heart shape, from the nose, up around the eyes and then down to the chin.  The mouth looks human and the jaw line does not look like the jaw line of a monkey.  Altho there appears to only be 3 fingers, they do like they're manipulating something.  Around the shoulders I see a cape-like article that could be part of - oh I hate to say it :) - an astronaut suit.  The "pilot" is connected to his machine via his helmut.  The complex patterns in front of him/her could be the control panel.  You will notice that this being has the human thingy - can't think what it's called - that little valley between the nose and lip.  Two little ridges that form a valley in between.  If you look at the left eye, that would be the eye on your right as you're looking at the picture, it seems to me that I see a "soft" look there.  In my opinion - take that helmut off, and I think you'd see a very attractive being with a lovely round face and large expressive eyes, and lips like Marilyn Monroe made famous.  If you look closely on the right side, you will actually see a 4th finger.  If you position your hand the same way, in other words, curl your fingers until all the tips are touching each other, you won't see your baby finger. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 09, 2007, 04:08:37 pm
I can see that. Do you also see the dark spots? near the ears? they seem to have been "worked" electrically. There are many such examples. Since you mentioned it, soldering is not an easy task:


[...]

Soldering issues

Soldering gold-plated parts can be tricky.

Gold is soluble in solder. Solder which contains more than 5% gold can become brittle. The joint surface is dull-looking.

Gold reacts with both tin and lead in their liquid state, forming brittle intermetallics. When eutectic 63% Sn - 37% Pb solder is used, no lead-gold compounds are formed, because gold preferentially reacts with tin, forming the AuSn4 compound. Particles of AuSn4 disperse in the solder matrix, forming preferential cleavage planes, significantly lowering the mechanical strength and therefore reliability of the resulting solder joints.

If the gold layer does not completely dissolve into the solder, then slow intermetallic reactions can proceed in the solid state as the tin and gold atoms cross-migrate. Intermetallics have poor electrical conductivity and low strength. The ongoing intermetallic reactions also cause Kirkendall voiding, leading to mechanical failure of the joint, similar to the degradation of gold-aluminum bonds known as purple plague.

A 2-3 µm layer of gold dissolves completely within one second during typical wave soldering conditions. [1] Layers of gold thinner than 0.5µm (20 microinches) also dissolve completely into the solder, exposing the underlying metal (usually nickel) to the solder. Impurities in the nickel layer can prevent the solder from bonding to it. Electroless nickel plating contains phosphorus. Nickel with more than 8% phosphorus is not solderable. Electrodeposited nickel may contain nickel hydroxide. An acid bath is required to remove the passivation layer before applying the gold layer; improper cleaning leads to a nickel surface difficult to solder. A stronger flux can help, as it aids dissolving the oxide deposits. Carbon is another nickel contaminant that hinders solderability.[...]


Gold plating
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 09, 2007, 04:24:26 pm
Gold IS extremely hard to solder and isn't a preferable method at all of working with gold.  Electroplating would be easier, IF you have the right chemicals to treat the base metal with.  Today we have powder coating, which is paint in powder form, spray on the piece, and then baked at extremely high temperatures.  I don't know if that would work with gold powder, altho I don't see why not.  Gold powder would not take such a high heat.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 09, 2007, 11:38:50 pm
I have copied this from the thread Viking Ships:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/VikingRunes.jpg)

If you look in the very centre of the thing, you will see a "stylized square", that looks much like the picture in the first link of Mario's previous post.

Also, in amongst his pictures, I'm sure I saw also, that stylized cross.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 09, 2007, 11:43:50 pm
And again, the two serpents!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 10, 2007, 12:05:30 am
The designs could be personal insignias, especially fancifull for someone of wealth.  In one of the pictures in the thread Viking Ships, we see that each shield has a different design also.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 10, 2007, 01:05:07 am
To a certain extent I might agree...

However:

We cannot tell this from the pictures as the earliest representation is from the last century, which is seemingly WAY too recent to be of great value in that regard.

I just found both your responses above to my question about the gold "monkey"...  I was so startled when I saw it..... It could be simply a souvineir pet brought back from a long voyage... or as I first thought when I saw it,

The Bock saga tells that the father of Frej and Freja was a "monki" or "apa" !


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 10, 2007, 04:11:18 am
-Do you know how old can they be?

-Are they from the same period? Why one cannot find information regarding this subject (don't even know their size or anything)?

-Do you think people might be covering this up?

-Where can be found specific information about it? Do you know what other people think of it?


Sorry for all the questions.


regards,
mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 10, 2007, 05:00:23 am
-Do you know how old can they be?

-Are they from the same period? Why one cannot find information regarding this subject (don't even know their size or anything)?

-Do you think people might be covering this up?

-Where can be found specific information about it? Do you know what other people think of it?


Sorry for all the questions.


regards,
mario

OK now I'm confused... please explain your questions more clearly.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 10, 2007, 05:22:51 am
I haven't found any information regarding these "pieces". Do you know anything about them?










Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 10, 2007, 06:48:09 am
The Age of the pieces are very important. Don't you think? The only things i know are the images themselves. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 10, 2007, 08:21:26 am
just a story i remembered:

In our Island (Santiago) there were once many small monkeys that damaged banana plantations, so people started chasing them, (nowadays they are almost extinct).
There was this man that used to go out with a riffle and shoot these animals, but one day, he told us, when he was aiming at a monkey on a tree, the monkey looked straight at him, and grabbed her new born baby and raised it high, for him to see. he said he felt that the monkey was so human, that he never killed them any more.


regards
mario


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 10, 2007, 08:42:34 am
Sorry Qoais, but i couldn't help it.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/caboverdian/TheIsland03/photo#5128450492192472370

Doesn't this look like a highly fashioned tap? look along the body of the "cat" and you will notice a middle water tap. and two exits (hot/cold?).



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 10, 2007, 12:22:21 pm
(http://lh4.google.co.uk/caboverdian/RyvqjQtPPTI/AAAAAAAAASk/D7fMTdNsG9I/bocksaga11111111111111118.png?imgmax=512)

This IS totally amazing!   But I figured that it was very small....

The story of the monkey mother is just great Mario..

I think that gold is something that is difficult to discover the age of, is it not?  They pretty much have to age other items that they are found with....  I think that searching google for gold in museum collections in Scandinavia would be the way to start.

"-Do you think people might be covering this up?"  Well, chances are that archeologists who have found these type of items are placing them within the strict boundries of what has been already "assumed".   And that definately has not included the Bock information, YET....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on November 10, 2007, 12:27:09 pm
(http://lh5.google.co.uk/caboverdian/RyvAUgtPOvI/AAAAAAAAANU/21c284mR5-c/bocksaga111111111111111111.png?imgmax=512)

OK, my question about this one is this:

Did you notice that the lions have MANES (male) as well as TEATS (female)....?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 10, 2007, 03:21:06 pm
On the upper right lion, there is a dark patch,  just above the teats, which to me, indicates that the lions are poured, and attached to the device after.  It also looks like the "teats" are not on the lion, but on the device itself as part of it's design.  If this is an arm band or a bracelet, those points would hurt.  If it's to be worn as a diadem or tiara type thing, those teeth would help hold the thing in place much like hair combs of today.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 11, 2007, 10:28:47 am
Sorry for not replying before, we've just had another blackout.

I am glad you liked it, rockessence,

Quote:

"I think that gold is something that is difficult to discover the age of, is it not?  They pretty much have to age other items that they are found with....  I think that searching google for gold in museum collections in Scandinavia would be the way to start."

Yes, how could i forget that? I am becoming "lazy".

Regarding what you said, about the Lions teats, i never noticed that, really amazing.



Qoais, your explanation seems to be right. They must be hollow pieces.


Qoais and rockessence you are really something, i love so much.

regards,
mario





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on November 12, 2007, 05:44:37 pm
Dear Mario:
I think one year ago they found a whole country underneath of Baltic seaI dont think thats Atlantis.but, it must be a big civilization there.Did you read that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear DDD3D3D;
What did Bluehue do to you??Why in the world you are so angry with him for Gods sake..Dear DDD, Bluehue has  some disablities.May be thats why he is acting so unusual..
Dont be angry.If you dont like him,  dont speak with him..I dont like a lot of people in the real life for example but,if you work somewhere or in a society there are many people and you have to deal with them peacefully..Calm down!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 12, 2007, 06:08:39 pm
What's going on?  What's the matter 3D?  This doesn't sound like you. 

I couldn't get on line earlier as the big Blue Spruce in front of the house came down this morning in a major wind storm on the power line, and I only have one circuit of electricity in the house right now, so have just re-routed my computer to that line. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on November 12, 2007, 06:43:51 pm
Hi Qoais, how are you??I couldnt come to this forum since along time, because I had no time.Soon Ill go to the another country to live.(like I said before._
With love and peace-julia


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 12, 2007, 06:51:17 pm
Where are you moving to Julia?  When are you going?  How are you feeling?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 13, 2007, 11:22:47 am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohQfoofgRAs

regards
M


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 17, 2007, 11:37:12 am
Plasma Beam Induces Transparency in Matter

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/PlasmaBeamDevice.jpg)

Hurtubise Says Invention Sees Through Walls (also interviewed on American Antigravity)

By Phil Novak for BayToday.ca
January 16, 2005

Troy Hurtubise has done the seemingly impossible with his newest invention and defied all known rules of physics, he says.

The Angel Light - Hurtubise claims the concept came to him in a recurring dream - can reportedly see through walls, as if there was no barrier at all. That's not all, though.

Hurtubise, 41, said the device detects stealth technology. And he's done the tests to prove it, with the covert help of scientists at the famed Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Hurtubise said. If that's not enough, Hurtubise also said the French government sent representatives to North Bay to witness a demonstration of the Angel Light.

Hurtubise said the reps were so impressed with the eight-foot long device they paid him $40,000 in cash to put the finishing touches on it. The French, Hurtubise adds, have also agreed to pay him a "substantial" amount of money for the technology if it passes rigorous tests in France.

"They couldn't believe what they saw," Hurtubise told BayToday.ca. "One of them told me it was as if I'd discovered a new universe."

Gary Dryfoos, a consultant and former long-time instructor at MIT, said "there's a Nobel Prize" for Hurtubise if the Angel Light really performs as described.

"There are laws of physics waiting to be written for what he's talking about," Dryfoos said.

The French aren't the only ones interested in Hurtubise's innovations. BayToday.ca has obtained documentation confirming that the former head of Saudi counter-intelligence, who asked that his name not be used, has been in regular contact with Hurtubise regarding the Angel Light, fire paste, and the Light Infantry Military Blast Cushions (LIMBC).

While Hurtubise's claims appear, on the surface, to strain credulity, he has now placed himself miles ahead in the quest by high-tech companies to invent something that will do the same thing.

Motorola Inc. for example, has set its sights on emerging technology that could allow first responders and Special Forces to see through building walls, the Washington Technology Web site reports.

Camero Inc., an Israeli firm founded by technology and intelligence veterans, received $5 million from Motorola and other investors to develop portable imaging radar that uses ultra-wideband technology to create a 3-D picture of objects that are concealed by walls or other barriers.

Three units make up the Angel Light. The main unit, which Hurtubise calls the centrifuge, contains the Angel Light's brains and includes black, white, red and fluorescent light sources, as well as seven industrial lasers. The second unit, or the deflector grid, contains a large circle of optical glass, a microwave unit and plasma intermixed with carbon dioxide. The third unit contains eight plasma light rods, CO2 charges, industrial magnets, 108 mirrors, eight ionization cells industrial lights, and other components Hurtubise chooses to remain tight-lipped about.

Hurtubise said the Angel Light has cost $30,000 to build - he sold percentages of his other innovations to finance it - as well as 800 to 900 hours of his time. He credits his subconscious with the idea.

"I had a dream about a year and a half ago as I do for most of my innovations, just a dream, and I saw it, saw the whole casing and everything, and I saw what it could do," Hurtubise said.

"I had the same dream about that three times and by the third time I had it in my head and I started to build it."

Troy dreamed the Angel Light would be able to see through walls with window-like efficiency, and then built it with no blueprints, drawings or schematics. "I turned it on - that was well over a year ago - and it worked and it was really awesome."

Hurtubise said he could see into the garage behind his lab wall, and read the licence plate on his wife's car and even see the salt on it.

"I almost broke my knuckles three or four times, because it was almost like you could step through the wall," Hurtubise said.

"You could be fooled into believing that you could actually walk through the wall and go touch the car."

Hurtubise called his MIT contacts with news of what he'd done. "They told me that I was playing with electromagnetism," Hurtubise said.

The conversation ultimately led to the discovery of the Angel Light's other startling properties. Hurtubise said "somebody from MIT" shipped him an eight-inch by eight-inch piece of paneling from the latest Comanche helicopter, which was built using radar-resistant stealth technology.

"It's amazing what you can get across the border on a Greyhound bus," Hurtubise said.

Hurtubise was instructed to set up an outdoor track, which he did on First Nations land. He attached the panel piece to a remote control car that went down the track. Hurtubise then aimed the Angel Light at the panel and turned on a radar gun. "I was able to pick it up the panel on the radar gun," he said.

But a strange thing happened to the car, once it was hit by the Angel Light beam: it stopped working. Hurtubise returned to his lab and began testing the Angel Light on other electronic items including portable radios, TVs and a microwave over.

"They all stopped working," Hurtubise said. He duly reported this to his MIT contacts. "They said 'Troy, this is unbelievable.'"

Hurtubise purchase a remote-control plane for $1,800 and took it and the Angel Light to a flying field on the way to Powassan. He directed the Angel Light beam toward the sky and started the plane flying. "On the first loop it came around, passed through the beam of light and fell right to the ground," Hurtubise said.

Hurtubise continued testing the light on other materials and discovered it could also see through other metals including steel, tin, titanium and, unlike Superman, lead. As well the beam also penetrated ceramic and wood.

Then Hurtubise put his hand in the light beam. "I could see my blood vessels, muscles, everything, like I'd taken an Exacto knife, cut into my skin and peeled it back," Hurtubise said. Soon after, Hurtubise discovered the Angel Light had devilish side-effects. He lost feeling in the finger of the exposed hand and began suffering an overall malaise.

"MIT told me every time I turned it on there must have been splash-back hitting me," Hurtubise said. A test on a tank of goldfish was even more disturbing. "I turned the beam on it and within minutes all the goldfish died," Hurtubise said.

"That's when I realized there was a Hyde effect, as in Jekyll and Hyde, and I dismantled the whole thing."

He didn't reassemble it until the French called him after seeing a Discovery Channel program about the LIMBC. Hurtubise believes the Hyde effect can be taken out, but by others who have far more expertise than him. In the meantime Hurtubise believes that after 17 years inventing, his ship may finally have come in with France.

"My brother told me the only way I'd be able to sell any of my innovations is by walking on water," Hurtubise said. "Well, I think I've just walked on water."






Analysis

Hurtubise's invention is astounding, not only for its induction of transparency in matter, but perhaps even more so for his having built the device from instructions in repeating dreams! In fact, he has no idea how it functions!

While the emissions of the device are referred to by Hurtubise as 'light', the components of the machine and the effects of the beam suggest that it is in fact an ionized gas - a plasma - exciting the molecules of the wall into high-energy states which allows photons to pass through matter. A similar effect of the interpenetration of matter has also been observed in high-energy states naturally found in tornadoes and other weather phenomena.

Resonant plasmas have also been shown to produce free energy and frictionless movement which can potentially allow transdimensional travel. This same technology has been described for decades in extraterrestrial encounters, where beamed energy causes paralysis, levitation and allows passage through walls and ceilings.

Ancient flying vehicles called 'vimana', in Sanskrit, were described in detail as using weaponry and evasion systems of this kind, suggesting ancient connections between Sanskrit culture and the extraterrestrial dimension. Hurtubise's dream transmissions implicate an extraterrestrial origin for his prototype Angel Light plasma beam device, which he has subsequently modified and renamed God Light.


http://www.humanresonance.org/angellight.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 18, 2007, 07:25:29 am
Hi Qoais,

You never stop digging :-) Amazing

M


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 18, 2007, 10:41:52 am
I think they should use it to look inside the pyramid and see if there's anything else in there!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 18, 2007, 11:08:05 am
(http://members.optushome.com.au/walshjj/light_dipole.gif)

Qoais,

check what i found:



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/Laguerre-gaussian.png&imgrefurl=http://lofi.forum.physorg.com/Problem-with-the-two-slit-experiment_6587-2400.html&h=960&w=1280&sz=167&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=tMO99QlPdv13hM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPlasma%2BBeam%2BInduced%2BTransparency%2Bin%2BMatter%26imgsz%3Dxxlarge%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

I don't really think they want people to be reading this stuff with the small letters, as you scroll down i just can't read.

With you is the same? funny.

I advise you not to look long at this pictures, as i started felling dizzy and nauseated

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/Laguerre-gaussian.png)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Spectrogram_of_violin.png)



I advise you not to look long at this pictures, as i started felling dizzy and nauseated

M


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on November 18, 2007, 11:14:17 am
(http://www.modellines.net/test/lasers2.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on November 27, 2007, 03:27:02 am
Hi peoples
I started a new thread

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,5093.msg46211.html#new

because I really feel this should be researched now in our modern times, with our "advanced" technology.  Boy, would I like to know the results of the DNA tests Zowie did on King Tut!!!!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on December 03, 2007, 06:40:10 am
Dear, . . . QOUAIS,

SORRY TO BUTT IN,

But did you realise that Atlantis is spelled wrong ??
But maybe you think that a misspelled geographical name is not importent ? dfiorinstance: " CADIZ is not GADARAs but KADESH ! "
The original phrase for Atlantis, was INSULA  ATLANTIDis MARE OLIM ABSORPTA, that's why the French also got the name wrong because Atlantis/Atlantidis is a possesional Pronoun not a Geographical NAME !

The proper name for Atlantis is thus: AT-Lant but in the Koran it is better spelled:" AD- LAND ". HOWEVER,

Since Atlantis is not Egyptian or Greek neither it was origionally spelled in Punician: HAT-Land and in (Modern-)Hindi or sanskrit: HATTi-Land.

This puts on a different aspect on the Geographical situation, because the Hebrew and babylonian HATTi-Lands were in South Arabia.
HERODOTUS himslf mentions that Atlantis(+ Hatti-Land) was on the World-Ocean(= mediaterra-Okeanos.)which was not the present MediaTerra-Nean Sea, but the Erytraean Sea(= mare Rubrum in latin.)

Professional Cartographists equall this Erytraean-Sea with the GULF-of- ADEN, or in extention the ARAB/Indian-Sea as well.

Europe is mistakenly seen as the site of ancient Atlantis, but that is impossible just BECAUSE:

1 Atlantis was at war with Europe, 2 after it's demise by submersion ithe disaster-victimes became colonists of Europe.

That means that to continue to call Europe ancient Atlantis is collaborating to History falsification.

How come than that we keep looking for Atlantis in Europe ? ? ?

In 1500 King FERDINAND OF Spain DECREED THAT his-Spagnola was the original Atlaqntis/Hesperis that was a political decision niot an historical one and we amateur Historians fell for it Lock stock and barrel !

Sincerely " BlueHue ":dd. 3 Dec.2007

PS ( I express my sincere apologies, Sorry to debuke your theory this unelegant way ! But Julia has made the same mistake, however she saw the Light in ras den as atlantis, too.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 08, 2007, 01:00:44 am
Hi Blue Hue
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.  I've been rather busy lately.

I do understand what you've said.  I see your point about "Europe".  In other words, Europe isn't fighting herself, she's fighting the Atlanteans, who, after their land sunk, spread out and settled in parts of Europe.  However, since I don't know European history, I would ask if Spain was considered part of Europe back then?  Just what was considered Europe back then?  Plato says the Atlanteans and Athenians were fighting.  There were others who "fell away" and Athens was left to fight on her own. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on December 09, 2007, 08:27:13 am
Hi Qoais,

(http://lh6.google.co.uk/dantaz/Rwf9u_djQzI/AAAAAAAAAP0/y9wucJnorRI/s144/atlantis_map_by_athanasius_kircher.gif)

I think your question is pertinent. I have been working on something (since very little is known about the Asopus river). Kircher's Map might be the answer.

Notice the only and bigger Insula Atlantis river facing Europe (Oropus district)... Then, answering your question, Kircher show us but the "tip" of Oropus, more or less, as in Plato's book:

"Concerning the country the Egyptian priests said what is not only probable but manifestly true,
that the boundaries were in those days fixed by the Isthmus, and that in the direction of the continent they extended as far as the heights of Cithaeron and Parnes; the boundary line came down in the direction of the sea, having the district of Oropus on the right, and with the river Asopus as the limit on the left."


Regards,

M



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on December 09, 2007, 11:31:45 am
The ancient literature about Atlantis:
By Cedric Leonard

TIMELINE OF ANCIENT SOURCES


Whence came the story of Atlantis?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 
It has been suggested that a timeline of ancient authors who wrote about Atlantis would contribute to the material presented in this website. In compliance with the suggestion, I am including the following timeline. The sources (Plato is not the source) of the Atlantis story are sometimes hazy, but many in the list below are quite solid.


When perusing the list below it might be well to keep in mind that to Philo the island mentioned by Plato was called Atalantes. The "Atlanteans" mentioned by Herodotus and Diodorus were Atlantes to Herodotus, but Atlantoi to Diodorus only four hundred years later. Also we find that the Aletae of Sanchuniathon were Auritae to Manetho nine hundred years later.


It is foolish to expect all references to Atlantis and Atlanteans to be spelled to our liking. The Berbers of North Africa had place-names like Attala, while the Sanskrit writings tell us of an island in the Atlantic called Atala. It is my contention that these are merely different forms of the Greek "Atlantis".

THE ANCIENT AUTHORS


DATE: AUTHOR: SOURCE: CONTENT:
470 A.D. Proclus Com. On Timaeus Preserves Crantor's account (now lost) of his trip to Sais, Egypt to see the temple records reported by Solon
370 A.D. Marcellinus Res Gestae On the disappearence of landmasses: "in the Atlantic sea, off the coast of Europe, a large island was swallowed up."
300 A.D. Arnobius Adversus Gentes Writes of the destruction of Atlantis as if it were an accepted fact of history.
100 A.D. Plutarch Orb of the Moon Claims that the Atlantic was shallow and unnavigable because of the subsidance of the island of Atlantis.
10 A.D. Philo Judaeus Incorruptibility The Island of Atalantes in Plato's Timaios was overwhelmed by floods and earthquakes and suddenly disappeared.
8 B.C. Diodorus Library of History Describes a race of "Atlanteans" living in Libya (North Africa), whose deities originate in the Atlantic.
25 B.C. Strabo Geography Expressed the opinion that possibly Plato's story about the island of Atlantis was not a fiction.
c. 100 B.C. Marcellus Ethiopic History Canary Islanders preserved traditions of Atlantis, which they alleged had once governed all the islands in the Atlantic.
100 B.C. Aelian De Natura Animalium "Dwellers by the ocean" say the ancient kings of Atlantis traced their descent back to the god Poseidon.
250 B.C. Manetho Old Chronicle Lists the ten god-kings, (which he called the "Auritae") who, during the Reign of the Gods, ruled a "foreign country".
300 B.C. Crantor Com. on Timaeus Priests of Sais show Crantor the temple columns from which Solon derived his knowledge of the story of Atlantis.
320 B.C. Theopompus Meropis Priests of Phrygia tell him of a continent of great size in the far west inhabited by both peaceful and warlike people.
340 B.C. Bhavishya Purana Mentions Atala, the "White Island" across a sea of saltwater in the West, inhabited by Magas who worship Surya, the Sun.
350 B.C. Plato Timaeus/Critias Plato relates the now familiar story of Atlantis and its final destruction by earthquakes, floods and subsidance.
450 B.C. Herodotus Histories The ocean now called the Atlantic he calls "the Atlantis Sea". He describes a tribe of "Atlanteans" living in North Africa.
590 B.C. Solon Atlantica (lost) Solon began his epic poem "Atlantica" based on the story of Atlantis he had gotten from the priests at Sais, Egypt.
600 B.C. Mahabharata Karna Parva The epic war of the Gods and Asuras in which the island of Atala and all its inhabitants sink into the "Western Ocean".
735 B.C. Hesiod Theogeny Tells us of the Titans who, after losing a ten-year war, were imprisoned beneath the waters of the Ocean in the far West.
800 B.C. Homer Iliad Refers to the imprisonment of the Titan Cronos at the "far end of the earth" beneath the "waters of the restless sea."
1190 B.C. Sanchuniathon Phoenician History Calls ancient god-kings of former times the "Aletean kings". Gives Phoenician legends of Thoth, Cronos, Atlas and Zeus.
1300 B.C. Turin Papyrus King-List Lists all ten of the god-kings which reigned in a pre-historic age (Zep Tepi) just before the reign of the demi-gods
c. 2000 B.C. Vishnu Purana Locates Atala, the White Island, in the "Western Ocean" at same latitude as Canary Islands in the Atlantic.
c. 2500 B.C. Palermo Stone Royal Canon Lists the last eight of the ten god-kings, including Cronos (Seb), Osiris, Set and possibly Thoth.
c. 4000 B.C. Egyptian Book of the Dead King Thoth ruled an Island in the West which was destroyed by water, and brought the surviving rulers eastward to Egypt





In the Americas we encounter place-names like Atlan (Isthmus of Panama), Aztlan (Toltec mythology), Atitlan (Guatemala), and Aztalan (Wisconsin). The Americas are rife with such names; and while we should not assert that each and every one refers to Atlantis, neither should we jump to the conclusion that none of them have any connection at all with Atlantis.


Scholars use these natural variations to claim that Plato invented Atlantis as a morality tale. Only recently I observed a Ph.D. assert that "Plato coined the name Atlantis," when he should know that Herodotus used the name (the same identical form) a hundred years earlier than Plato. I guess if you're agin' it, you're agin' it, and ain't nothin' gonna change your mind!


Anyway, I suggest keeping these considerations in mind while perusing through the above references--I haven't chosen them lightly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on December 09, 2007, 11:33:18 am
ANCIENT WRITINGS
Pre-Platonic Writings Pertinent to Atlantis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


by R. Cedric Leonard


Scholars the world over have repeatedly declared that ancient sources describing Atlantis are plentiful, "but before Plato - nothing". They make such a declaration because of several reasons. (1) They disregard every record in which Atlantis is not mentioned by name. (2) In their skepticism they disregard records which mention Atlantis by name. (3) They are unfamiliar with the Sanskrit writings of India. For a timeline of ancient writers before and after Plato, click Here.


Let us use an example from a hundred years before Plato in which Herodotus, the "father of history," mentions Atlantis by name in referring to the body of water into which it sank. Here is the Greek text of a portion of Clio (History, Bk I, 202) in which the waters outside the Pillars of Hercules is said to be known as the Atlantis Sea.
 
Greek text from the "History" of Herodotus which mentions Atlantis
"But one of the mouths of the Araxes flows with clarity into the Caspian Sea; but the Caspian Sea is by itself, not connected to the other sea. For the sea navigated by all the Greeks and the one outside the Pillars called the Atlantis Sea and the Erythraean, are one and the same." (Translated by R. Cedric Leonard)

One does not need to be a Greek scholar to recognize the word "Atlantis" in the above Greek text (line 5, 3rd word from the left). Many of my colleagues insist that the phrase should be translated "the sea of Atlas" instead of the Atlantis Sea. While it is true that Atlantis is an inflected form of Atlas, these very same colleagues have never suggested that when Plato speaks of the "island of Atlantis" it would be more properly translated as the "island of Atlas". The island and the ocean were called "Atlantis" because they were named after Atlas (which is what the name "Atlantis" means).


The point here, which cannot be gainsaid, is that Atlantis was known before Plato--so well-known that the sea outside Gibraltar was commonly called the Atlantis Sea in Herodotus' time. It had acquired that name because Atlantis had once occupied that area. We carry the same tradition down when we refer to that same body of water as the Atlantic. While in Europe, I noticed that their maps label the same ocean "Atlantischer," preserving the word "Atlantis" intact.


In the above quote, Herodotus also mentions another name of the Atlantic, the Erythraean. The word in Greek indicates the color red--descriptive of the effect of sunset on the water, as would be seen from a European vantage point. (Note: It is this word, not Geryon, that means "red glow of the sunset," Ignatius Donnelly notwithstanding; 1882 edition, p. 307). But even a minimal amount of research demonstrates that the Atlantic Ocean had yet another more common name in ancient times.


Ancient Egyptian, Sanskrit and European sources (e.g., Pliny the Elder) often refer to the Atlantic Ocean as the "Western Ocean"--important if one is looking for ancient records of Atlantis. It is a given that any records dating back before Plato are going to be hard to find; but even though the pickings are slim, records which have been overlooked by most modern scholars do exit.


As we encounter these writings, it should be noted that Atlantis itself is sometimes represented by various spellings (sometimes even unnamed); but it should also be noted that when the context is properly considered, there is no doubt about the identity of the island being referenced. And, as will be demonstrated, there is no doubt that the "Western Ocean" mentioned is indeed the Atlantic.


According to Critias, Solon was given the story by the Egyptian priests at Sais which they had obtained from engraved columns in the temples of Egypt. Manetho, whose writings form the basis of our knowledge of ancient Egyptian history, obtained his famous King-Lists from similar sources. So what about this source?

THE EGYPTIAN WRITINGS

Over a half-century ago Cambridge scholar and explorer, Harold T. Wilkins (1946), noted the depiction of a great festival on column 8 of the Great Hall of the temple of Rameses at Karnak, along with an accompanying text memorializing the loss of a drowned continent in the Western Ocean. The column mentioned cannot be easily dismissed, and is a relevant example of the type of source to which Solon (in Plato's Timaeus) refers.


Plato described Atlantis as being ruled by ten kings before its demise. Egyptian king-lists going back thousands of years before Plato (we will look at one example here) establish four important facts which we should notice. They are:


1) Egyptian tradition begins with the "reign of the gods"
2) In all there were ten of these so-called "god-kings"
3) They were said to have reigned in a foreign country
4) From all appearances they were called "Atlanteans"


This last statement will be challanged by scholars, so let's take a closer look at the Egyptian king-lists. One noticable fact is that Manetho (250 B.C.) calls the first series of kings who ruled during the "reign of the gods," Auriteans. This seems to be nothing more than a corruption of the word "Atlantean". Let me explain.


Egyptian hieroglyphics only approximate real sounds: for instance, a hieroglyphic "k" must be used to represent the hard "g" sound. The hieroglyph that Manetho transcribed as r can equally be transcribed as an l. Thus the "Auriteans" of Manetho's king-lists could just as well be "Auliteans": phonetically almost identical to "Atlanteans". This idea obtains credible support from the fact that the ancient Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon (1193 B.C.) calls these very same kings Aleteans (Cory, 1826).


Although there are numerous ancient Egyptian king-lists in existence, only a few include the famous "reign of the gods". These include the Palermo Stone (2565-2420 B.C.), the Turin Papyrus (1300 B.C.), and Manetho's Egyptian Chronicles (250 B.C.). Of these, the Turin Papyrus is by far the most complete source.


The Turin Papyrus (Gardiner, 1987; Smith, 1872) lists ten kings who ruled during the "reign of the gods," complimenting the fragments of Manetho which have come down to us. Most importantly, it allows us to equate the Egyptian names with the Greek names given by Manetho. Below is a list of god-kings from the Turin Papyrus, with Manetho's fragmented list alongside:

The Turin Papyrus Manetho's God-Kings
Ptah Hephaestus
Ra Helios
Su Agathodaemon
Seb Cronos
Osiris Osiris
Set Typhon
Horus .
Thoth .
Ma .
Horus Horus 


So we have ten Aulitean (or, Aletean) kings reigning in a "foreign land" during the precise time Plato says ten Atlantean kings reigned in Atlantis. The Turin Papyrus also records the installation of the next series of kings in 9850 B.C.! This date is so close to the date given for the end of Atlantis that coincidence is virtually out of the question. In such a case, the equation "Aletean=Atlantean" doesn't seem out of the question. (For more info, return to HOME Page and click on Mythological Traditions or the Writings from Egypt icon.)

THE SANSKRIT WRITINGS
 

The Sanskrit writings of ancient India contain several descriptions of Atlantis, and even assert that Atlantis was destroyed as the result of a war between the gods and Asuras (recalling the war between the gods and the Titans). Present day scholars are so steeped in Greek and Roman (western) literature that Indian sources are too often ignored.



A passage in Sanskrit from the Mahabharata

The Vishnu Purana (circa. 2000 B.C.), one of the oldest of the Hindu Puranas, speaks of Atala, the "White Island," one of the seven dwipas (islands) belonging to Patala (Book II, chaps. i, ii, and iii). This old text locates Atala geographically on the seventh (heat, or climate) zone, which according to Francis Wilford (the translator) is 24 to 28 degrees north latitude, putting it in the same latitude as the Canary Islands just off the North African coast. Col. Wilford rightly calls Atala, "Atlantis, the White Island". (Wilford, 1808)


At least one "authority" has attempted to identify Atala with Italy, but Italy is not an island. Also, Italy is 38 to 45 degrees north latitude. Finally, I fail to see any possibility that the "Western Ocean," mentioned as its location, could be the Mediterranean when the Karna Parva of the Mahabharata clearly describes Africa as comprising that ocean's eastern shoreline--a correct geographical description of the west coast of Africa.


Another non-Sanskrit scholar implies that Atala might be one of the well-known northern lands, such as Iceland or Greenland, and that the epithet "White Island" refers to its being covered with snow the majority of the time--even the mythological Hyperborea has been suggested. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case.


Atala and Sveta Dwipa ("White Island") are not the only names for Atlantis in Sankrit lore. Another name, Saka Dwipa, is used just as often in the Puranas; and according to the Sanskrit Dictionary, Saka Dwipa means "island of fair skinned people." It seems quite probable that "white" refers to the islands inhabitants, rather than to the dominant color of the island--although it should not be imagined that all Atlanteans were white.


The terms "Atala" and "White Island" are used also by the Bhavishya Purana (4th cent. B.C.). Here it is stated that Samba, having built a temple dedicated to Surya (the Sun), made a journey to Saka Dwipa, located "beyond the salt water" looking for the Magas (magicians), worshippers of the Sun. He is directed in his journey by Surya himself (i.e., journeys west following the Sun), riding upon Garuda (the flying vehicle of Krishna and Vishnu) he lands at last among the Magas.


The Mahabharata (circa. 600 B.C.) also refers to "Atala, the White Island", which is described as an "island of great splendour." It continues: "The men that inhabit that island have complexions as white as the rays of the Moon and they are devoted to Narayana . . . Indeed, the denizens of White Island believe and worship only one God." (Santi Parva, Section CCCXXXVII)


This well-known Sanskrit epic contains more than one account of a powerful islandic empire in the Atlantic which sank to the bottom of the "Western Ocean" following a horrendous war. It doesn't take much imagination to link Atala with Atlantis. (For more information, click on War of the Gods either here, or after going to the "Aircraft from India" page, via the appropriate icon on Home Page.)


The Santi Parva also describes Atala as being inhabited by white men who never have to sleep or eat. (Ibid.) Interestingly enough, the Greek historian Herodotus (450 B.C.) describes a tribe of Atlanteans who "never dream and eat no living thing". (History, Book IV) Can this be coincidence? And just as the god Poseidon is very much involved in the Atlantis story, likewise in the Sanskrit accounts we find Varuna (the Hindu Poseidon) very much involved in Atala.


Another description is remarkably similar to Plato's, even down to its circular capital city, Tripura! Tripura is made in three concentric parts, just as Plato's Metropolis is divided into three parts by concentric canals. During the war of the gods and Asuras, the wicked cities of the Asuras began to fall, one by one, amidst loud cries of woe. "Burning those Asuras, he [the hero] threw them down into the Western ocean" (Karna Parva, Section XXXIV).


Concerning the "concentric arrangment" of Tripura, a recent archeological discovery of a fortified palace in Bactria, India, known as Dashly-3, turned out to be a concentric 3-ringed structure of the "tripura type". [Their words, not mine.] The archaeologists, excavating under the auspices of the Archaeological Departments of Pakistan and India (Mahadevan, 15), also state that the Dasyas, the builders of Dashly-3, were "Asura-worshippers".


In the Surya Siddhanta, an ancient Sanskrit text on astronomy, the translator (W. D. Whitney, 1860) mentions an "island" (dwipa) called Jambu Dwipa, surrounded by rings of alternating land and water. I am tempted to equate Jambu Dwipa with the Atlantean capital, which Plato describes as surrounded by circular canals, "making alternate zones of sea and land" (Critias).


The geographical specifics given in the above writings render the location of the powerful island civilization known as Atala beyond question: Atala was a large island, containing numerous cities, located off the western shore of Africa in the Atlantic Ocean. Following a tremendous war, the island with all its cities and inhabitants, was sent burning to the bottom of that ocean, after which peace prevailed. To attempt to separate these accounts from Plato's Atlantis is an exercise in triviality.


I believe the above accounts constitute ample evidence that my years of research have not been wasted. Perhaps literary scholars' assertion that no pre-Platonic accounts of Atlantis exist should be seriously reconsidered.

TOP of Page
Bibliography

Champollion, Jean Francois (translator), Turin Papyrus, 1300 B.C.
Cory, Isaac Preston., Ancient Fragments, London, 1832.
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, Book III, 54.1, 8 B.C.
Donnelly, Ignatius, "Atlantis: the Antediluvian World," Harper & Brothers, New York, 1882.
Gardiner, Sir Alan H. (translator), "The Royal Canon of Turin," Griffith Institute, Oxford, 1987.
Herodotus, "History": Book I, Clio (Leonard's translation), 450 B.C.
Herodotus, "History": Book IV, Melpomene (Rawlinson's translation), 450 B.C.
Leonard, R. Cedric, Quest for Atlantis, Manor Books, New York, 1979.
Manetho, Egyptian Dynasties, 250 B.C. (from the text of Dindorf & compared with Eusebius)
Plato, Critias Dialogue (Benjamin Jowett's translation), 360 B.C.
Roy, Protep Chandra (translator), Mahabharata, 700 B.C., Calcutta.
Sanchuniathon, History of the Phoenicians, 1193 B.C. (Eusebius Praep. Evang., l.c. 10.)
Smith, George, "The Chaldean Account of Genesis," London, 1872.
Whitney, W. D., "Surya Siddhanta," The Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. VI, Yale
College, New Haven, 1860.
Wilford, Francis, Journal of Asiatic Researches, Vol. VIII, Calcutta, 1808.
Wilkins, Harold T., Mysteries of Ancient South America, Rider & Co., London, 1946.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anthropology | Archeology | Geology | HOME | Linguistics | Mythology | Paleontology
Most ideas are from "Quest for Atlantis" by R. Cedric Leonard
Published by Manor Books Inc., New York, 1979.
Copyright © 1979: R. Cedric Leonard   


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on December 09, 2007, 11:35:20 am
From the Book: Quest for Atlantis  of Cedric Leonard:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/index.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on December 09, 2007, 03:43:48 pm
Hi Julia,

Indeed there are important references to Atlantis before Plato, i think that makes its existence more evident. Interestingly, the Egyptians were the ones left with the knowledge of Urban Atlantis. Although, its History is told on the four corners of the world.

M


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on December 12, 2007, 10:38:51 am
Hi BlueHue,     I do understand what you've said.  I see your point about "Europe".   Europe isn't fighting herself, she's fighting the Atlanteans, who, after their land sunk, spread out and settled in parts of Europe.  However, since I don't know European history, I would ask if Spain was considered part of Europe back then?  Just what was considered Europe back then?  Plato says the Atlanteans and Athenians were fighting.  There were others who "fell away" and Athens was left to fight on her own. 

Dear, . . . . . . .  QOAIS,  and   possibly;    'respected   RAJESH' ,

In SHORT,
Breaking, Template etiquette & source-mentioning:
" EUROPE" was the colonization Project of Princess-EUROPA on a broad scale like a complete Nation's migration.   Sit tight: in her days(= 1075-950 bc.)"  Europe " was England, Spain, France/ italy / Greece and of all unexpected things: Turkey (= Anatolia.)  Officially the MINOANS invaded Greece in 3.500 bc but actually the were named the MINEANS from:  ASiR(= in Jemen. )

Secondly we are talking about differend TIME-Lines here if you have not noticed that allready: The Greek DARK  AGES never existed, they were the Chonological error THAT THE DESIGNER OF THE EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY Dr EMILE BRUGSCH, MADE BAcK IN 1850, WHEN HE COULD NOT READ THE TURIN-DYNASTY SCROLL YET, AND HAD TO RELY SOLELY ON MANETHOON'S  AEGYPTIAKA YET.  Sothere was an admistrative " error " of 500 non-existing Years !
Egyptologists kept it " Mum" for 100 years in order not to loose credibility they coverred that up !

SO, the traditional/ conventional  King-List DATES inbetween years 1500-1000 which are those famous greek " Dark- Years ": never existed but in the Dating error of dr E. Brugsch.  the year 1000 follows directly upon year 1500 and thus the 18th Dynasty dide NOT " florish " inbetween 1500-1000, but inbetween: 1000-500 bc. ( allbeit disguised under similar names:)  fOR INSTANCE READ this sequence:   SESOSTRIS-123, Thutmoses-1,2,3, AMENNEMES- 1,2,3,4, Amenhotep: 1, 2, 3, 4.  And the OSORKONS 1,2,3 are also Thutmoses 1,2,3, the TAKELOTS-1+2=: Amenhotep-3 & 4.  Only Dr Velokovsky noticed that.

Alas he in Princeton bittered by scholars who , at first pretended to sympathise and than, professed, not to understand his chronology of Atlantis DISCOVERY !  Dr Velikovsky, died in 1980, of sorrow, before he could make a detailled and final TIME- LINE Chart of his REVISED Chronology.   OTHERS have  unsuccesfully tried to " Emulate " the late Dr. Velikovsky by using  variants of his Revised Chronology and re0-named this unsourced Time-Line the " new " Chronology exponents of this MONSTRUM are N.C.POPE, Dr Davidd ROHL and AHMED- OSMAN.

PEOPLE who don't know about the  origin of Atlantis as Ad-Land in South-Arabia and the - proven- validity of the REVISED- Chronology, think that ATLANTIS was in Spain, because of the names CFADIZ/ GADARA/ Tartessos without relising that these arerefugy-colonies from the Atlantic disaster and not Sunken Cities of Atlantis itself !  When Atlantis did " sink " for the FIRST time in 1075-1055 bc No Greeks were living in greece and the present city of ATHENS was not built yet so, 

Don't think or stop thinking of ancient-Athens in Europe, when,  PLATO did mentioned an Early- Athens it was still in South-Arabia and NOT in Greece( so before 1.000 bc BOTH Greece & ATHENS-in- Europe, did not Exist !  . . . . . . I hope that You know, better,  what you were saying when you mentioned the other day, that you understood my point about " EUROPE " NOT beiing the scene of the War of ATHENS defending itself against the Atlantean's RAID on Athens !  I made the problem cause of these wrong ideas,  plain enough !     Just Pity that they lost prominence and are too biased to see themselves as mere colonists from the Minoans/ Mineans who departed in 1055 bc, from the unsignificant-obscure-port of MOCCA ( where the Coffee was invented !)in North-Jemen. !

Was SPAIN part of Europe during Atlantis Raid on ATHENS ? ?
FINALLY a very good Question !  You will have noticed that Mario Dantas and Julia who have continued to post in this thread after you, have not noticed nor answered to your Reply, But have made this good by an ongoiing research after Atlantis in: iNDIA, where the Hindi, called Atlantis " Patala or Atala" MEANING: White-Country and White City.

SINCE EL means GOD and GOD means White Elephant alltogether, Atala/ Patala means White Elephant City in the White-Elephant Country.
DEUKALION was king of PTHYA ( which is a corruption of Patala .) PUT, Pythia, PHUL, Phulbe, PILLARS, these corrupted words all mean " White-ELEPHANT ".
ADEN is a Corruption of: ADDE or  HADDAD  and Atlantis is a corruption of : HATTI-Lands which is in South -Arabia,    ARABIA - FOELIX ( not: Felix !)all these different words mean: White- ELEPHANT  Country, thus the  GEO- Name: Arabian Sea means WHITE- Elephant Sea or by extention the MILK- SEA.

PRESENTLY,  Ras ADEN is administratively re-arranged after british rule ended and the YEMENITES were finally free and unrestricted so that they could stage TWO " HAPPY" neccesary Civil-wars, before realizing that how better their lifes were under the golden age of british rule !  The former Ad-LAND was re-Named several times as: SEiiR, SAANAA, HYMYAR, EL- LAHEIJ, ATHE etc. Today Aden Protecto0rate is re-named as: it's ancient arabic name: HODRIYA,
 
Which was HUZLAND (In the holy-Bible, SHORTENED INTO " THAT Land- of- UZ">)when the KORAN was introduced it became Ad-Land, but in EGYPTIAN TIMES it was named: CHETI- Land or REnenuted-RETENUE(= Goddess of RAIN !) Ana HITA or Elephant lady was a rain-Goddess too in Persia. Strangeli enough, in the Sanskrit " RAM-JAN "  EPOS,  Ras- ADEN is named as " SRI- LANKA " and the City itself as:  HASTINA- PURA,  Paklestine and SYRIA were then named: PULASTIYA  and SURIYA all after the " White- ELEPHANT" which was Poseidon's and SHIVA's steed in his disguise as RUDRA, the name of this White- ELEPHANT was:"  AiR-a-WATAR "  or Air-to-Surface and it was called a FLYING- Elephant  ( with the understanding that Flying in india is an IDIOM, meaning " Exalted" or Holy ! just like " Mohammad" means 'Exalted')

When the Assyrians took Ras-Aden/ Ad-land in 855 bc at the Battle of KAR-KAR( meaning Royal-City or City-of- Cities "!) they taboed this white eelphant who than became the SATAN of the christian creed.  In Greek Myth, the white ELEPHANT became the Sea-Horse or " HIPPOCAMPOS" of Poseidon the Star-Constellation ' ELEPHANT " was re-Named as " CAPRICORNUS ".

The fact that in 855 bc,  King Salmanasser-3 ordered the 1.000 " PILLARS" of Ad-Irem murdered, is quite unknown in hisdtory a small wonder, they ould not retell it he wiped out all whitnesses, because of the Death=penalty of mentioning the word " White- Elephants of -Ad-Land "  Salmanasser -3 " your name is MUD" So there !        ( in 855 bc,  salmanassers-3's white- Elephant taboo decree was manifested in the virtual beheadding of the indian Elephant-GOD " GANEESHA ", by it's own ' master' Shiva, the saying went that" When lord Shiva was Bothered by" Flying-Elephants, " he cut their wings, and they became the Himalayan mountains !)  Hence forward, Shiva abandonned AIR-a-WATAR as his  faithfull Steed and donned himself a Black Waterbuffaloe named " NANDA".

The ELEPHANT WAS TABOOED AND NEITHER THE PICTURE NOR THE NAME OF Elephant WITHIN THE ASSYRIAN EMPIRE WAS ALLOWED TO BE USED, SO Elephant  BECAME Azazel BAALZEBUB, OR Behemoth The NAME ELEPHANT is composed of two words : EL ( which means " GOD') and PHANT (which meant PUNT or PONTOS.) Thus Elephant actually reads " God of- Pontos !" but this is strictly for the Birds:  The ' BABES' of Paradise were those white-Elephants
When Queen of SHEBA was asked how she was acquainted with Solomon's splendour, She answered " A little Bird"(= Sapphire'.) told me !  Little do readers know that the Atlanteans gave Birds names to their White Elephants !)


Further more, this Battle between the Athenians(= Defending.) and Atlanteans (= Attacking by Sea.) is wholly described in the Bible  in the disguise of the " EXODUS " , of  Moses, and the Kamoses -Stela, in THEBES, and also in the Part of the Rig-Veda Puranas that is called" RAMJAN " ( re-transcripted from the Pakrit- Kharosti or Kanada, by -Sri- Valmiki in about 400-350 bc.

The Atlantis FLOODING, or CATACLYSM(= Tsunami.) is less apparent in the Exodus, as APOCALYPSE, and in the RAMJAN, it is mentioned more detailed , that STORMEY  WEATHER was acompagning this Projected RAID on Atlantis, but  very clear in the Kamoses/ Ahmoses STORMSTELE .   Atlantis- City was troubled by recurrent if Small Tsunamies for which the Atlanteans/ Aden peoples of Ad, used White- Elephants as ( Trained !) Guardians livingb partly on the Acropolis partly  feeding on the irrigated TIDAL-Plain ! as the " Cherubs" .

Everything about Atlantis is connected with the reverence of the White ELEPHANT as steed of POSEIDON,  altough PLATO only mentioned these Elephants very BRIEFLY in a HALF-Senhtence, he continued to say in the same sentence that  the WHITE- BULLS of Helios were revered in the Temple of Poseidon, so to the moer than casual onlooker, this means that White- Elephants and White (- Elephant--)BULLS are exactly  THE SAME.

The Location of ATLANTIS
 CAN BE DEDUCED WITHOUT DIFFICULTY FROM A PASSAGE OF Herodotus IN WHICH HE PLAINLY STATED THAT THE Sea-OF- ATLAS AND THE MARE -ERYTRAEUM ARE ALSO EXACTLY THE SAME.   If you don't know WHERE this " Mare Erythraeum was aligned than you have got a problem, luckly we DO know that the WORLD- SEA or World Ocean (= OiKUMENE.)and Mare -Erytraeum are also the same they are now called the ARAB- SEA or more specific, the GULF -of- ADEN !     Aden-country  was also named: OPHIR it's Capital also Ophir is now: SHALALA or SAFARA-metropolis in Omanem Emporion.)= (s-)Ophir.) Biblical DHOPHAR/ =Efraiim.

THIS means that ALL Atlantologists, ( INCLUDING:  YOU and '  GEORGEOS ' ! ) that placed Atlantis Royal City(= Poseidon-Polis != Ras-Aden/ Ad-Land) within " [ present-day-Europe ]" Spain, or Mid- Atlantic/America/ Azores, Malta or indeed Cyprus,  ARE  BARKING- UP THE  WRONG TREE ! but since they don't read this, it will not bother them much, because " Ignorance is Bliss " !   Sharmast was as-bogus- as ' Georgeos ' but less cunning in concealing it !

What IS LEFT OF " Atlantis/ Ad-Land today ? ?
First the Sea-Level did rise AFTER Atlantis demise but only 50 meters, but since then, the RIVER of Atlantis now named TUFAN(= Star, in constellation-Little Bear, formerly called Draco[= Elephant.] has silted up the PORT of Aden at the right hand of Little- Aden(= the Poseidon-Temple-Site.)with 30 meters of red-MUD.

About the Auricalcum WALLS, they have melted away because these were Mud-Walls of Sulpheric Iron Oxide.  The PORT consisted of a Promotory that jutted from the BEACH at Ras-ADEN, far into the Sea but at the Last Earth-Quake or rather SEISMIC WAVE, the Left Brance of this MUD- Crater called Ad-Irem or -I forget- ras IMRAM, (= the same as King " HIRAM f" from Davis's days !)subsided.    ( the  sub- marine Google-Earth Map of the Ras- Aden area is not very well focussed and may be in Error because since a smooth FLAT-MUD layer, now is covering the required " CIRCULAR- Features" of Atlantis- royal City, these will have to be probed by ground-penetrating-scan-radar separately !

THE CITY AND TEMPLE ITSELF HAVE BEEN RAIDED  maybe TEN times in 200 years !  and destroyed by the new ruler in useless anger Who consequently  had to rebuilt it each time, at great costs !  Forinstance: it was the CAPITAL of a wealthy trade association of ten PUNIC SEAPORT CITIES A holy-Deca-POLIS !   I equate ATLANTIS, on different grounds than mr. MANUSCHEVICH as the ( PRE- Exillic ) JERUSALEM or KADESH !   And you know how obssesed King DAVID(= Thutmoses-2 )and  King SOLOMON (= Thutmoses-3) were in repairing that City from the last " Jebusite " occupation !  All rebuilding effords put together they sepent 80 years stalling the repairs, IN THE SILLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD DIE IF THEY FINISHED THE TEMPLE !   

When, in 855 bc,  King Salmanasser-3 from ASSUR captured Ras- Aden/ Atlantis, from it's previous - nominal- Ruler: King ACHNATON, he put to death the 1.000 " PILLARS " from Ad-Irem, because they supposedly were causing the recurrent Tsunamies & Earth-Quakes !  Thus the 2 PILLARS of HERACLES could not be Stone Stella on mountains, they were live Elephants !  who as thanks for making a FUZZ about in-comming TSUNAMIES were killed for their - misunderstood- service to mankind .    During the TSUNAMI that hit the Asian Coasts in Dec 200 many tourist-Elephants in Thailand ran away from the SEA- shore saving the Tourists on their back from drowning whilst their PIG-ignorent Karnacs were trying to make them return to their proper place.

  :'(  IF ONE THOUGHT THAT THE Asian-PORT AUTHORITIES HAD LEANED A LESSON FROM THIS EXPERIENCE ? ?   No way they purchased expensive Earth-Quake monitoring equipment from the American Gouvernment and ignored the " Incidental" savings of tourists lives by the wit of the tourist Elephants !  :'(

Sincerely and sadly  " BlueHue  "    :'(   :'(   dd 12 Dec.2007

Ps. could you be so Kind as to transfer this POST as quote, to another existing THREAD like: ATLANTIS in ADEN, Julia used to do that, for me but I don't know and never found out despite Moderator Brooks' explanation,  how that  works from my end.  THANK  YOU.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 13, 2007, 08:30:09 am
I have come across a rather interesting theory, so thought I would share it for everyone to have a think about.  About how the ancients communicated "at the speed of light"!


Heliographs mercury clad mirrors called “Aspas”

Xenophon (434-355 BC) an ancient Greek war hero and historian wrote a history of ancient Greece called Hellenica, which contains the phrase to

“Signal with a shield"

This is thought to refer to “reflecting sunlight” with a mirrored shield.” That shield was called an ASPAS the Ancients word for snakes The messages were called “aspasmos” “to handle the snake”: yes they were what you would call snakes.

The King sent Pereus to Gorgon (the land of ugly women) and to Medusa the monster woman with snakes for hair. I am sorry but they were asps :Xenophon”s bright shields NOT SNAKES.

NOW HOW WOULD THE DESCRIPTION OF A COMMUNICATION NETWORK TRANSLATE OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF REWRITES?

MEDUSA'S HAIR OF ASPS

Were her many "Sentinel outposts" manned by her faithful Gorgons really her eyes and ears from the Horizon to Horizon and beyond.

THE SENTINEL OUT POST HAD ONE EYE

This was a mirrored shield that the Gorgons would blink messages to Medusa and to other sentinels outposts that allowed for direct communication with Medusa. The mirrored shields were called Eyes or Cyclopes (sorry that word Cyclopes means a piece of copper with a bright finish not a one eyed monster ) and the Egyptians called them Ra-Hararkhte: Horus of two horizons. These were Quicksilver coated copper shields/disks


TO LOOK UPON MEDUSA
WAS TO BE TURNED TO STONE.

Because of the communication system which Medusa used with her faithful Gorgon Sentinels, she was able to keep a constant watch on strangers, merchant caravans, and enemy troop movements. Medusa could set up ambushes with her troops long before the unsuspecting visitor could even know that Medusa was aware of him. It must have seemed as if he was moving like a stone when events overtook him.

PERSEUS'S ADVISORS

Now Pereus had some smart advisors. They were the Nymphs "Smart young women" at least as smart as Clytemnestra. These Nymphs gave that young man some good advice.



CAPTURE A SENTINEL OUTPOST AND ITS BRIGHT SHIELD

The sentinel outpost had to be captured so that Peresus could use the sentinel Eye also known as a bright shield to tell Medusa that he, Peresus was moving away from Medusa when he was actually coming toward her.

CAPTURE THE CITY

Because Medusa was unaware of the approach of Peresus, her defenses were down. This was because she had grown to rely on the mirrors to blink a warning before an intruder could enter her city. This complacency made it easy for Peresus to walk in, and, with his IRON sword, defeat Medusa.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 13, 2007, 08:32:50 am
"Pegasus"

The best snap shot of the uses of aspas is of the Hittite Winged Sun Disk is a bas-relief sculpture of three men holding the mirrored unit, which is found in the collection at the Metropolitan museum of arts. This sculpture has been dated to 2000 years Before Christ. That is a thousand years before Clytemnestra and Princess Entiu-ny. Two of the men in the relief are stabilizing the device and directing the reflective beam of light. The third is stabilizing the other two men arms. A round disk on a pole was used to blink the mirror reflection This is one of the small portable units used in battle and was carried on the backs of horses, just as General Crook used horses to transport his Heliograph to the top of the mountains Homer's Bellerophn found one of Medusa lost horses with a sun disk aboard with its wings folded over the horse's flanks. That is why Bellerophn named the horse and its load "Pegasus" and Bellerophn used Pegasus to defeat the Chimera.

Homer was BLIND and every thing he spoke of was from a blind mans perspective so you can not take him as an eye witness. When Homer was told of a horse with wings on its back that gave its owner an advantage in war: Homer explained it as a flying horse. The ancient translation of the word we pronounce Pegasus is “Aries PEG-ACE” Which is Aries : Mars the god of war, “PEG” which mean a “stratagem” and Mirrored pool and “ASPAS” the signaling bright shield

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Neo-HittiteWingedSunrelief.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 13, 2007, 08:36:35 am
The Mirrored eye of Horus

The Egyptians had a belief that if they would place a pool of ink into the hollow of their hand they could see the future (Chiromancy Hall-Quest P211-212): but it was not always ink, no in the distant past it was a pool of Quicksilver (Mercury). That shiny molten liquid metal in their hand would make a mirror and a face would gaze back at the seer. In Egyptian the word "Hor" translates to face, in English: ( Cyrstalink .com
In the distant past a refection of one's face? the reflection of the sun in a mirror.

The most impressive of all heliographic watchtowers is still standing the Great Pyramid of Giza four hundred and fifty feet tall with a platform. As I have mentioned, the means of transmission was a "Line of Sight" system and the machines to transmit that code were mirrors and beacon fires. The word Pyramid in Greeks: is broken down to "pyra” which means "beacon fire or lights" and "mid" or "metronto count or measure. The Hebrew word for pyramid is Urim-middin is "Urim" which means "lights" and "middin" to measure or count On top of The Pyramid on the back of the US one dollar bill has the Eye of Horus, that machine was a golden mirror that would be winked with a disk or eyelid on a stick to transmit the code.



PYRAMID TEXT
Page 117

"O Height which is not sharpened",

The Platform at the top of the Great Pyramid.

"Gate of the sky… Grasp the King by his hand and take the King
to the sky that he might not die on Earth."

A communication system flashing through the sky giving the King to have knowledge that could very well save his life

.COFFIN TEXT
Passage 148
I am Horus, the great Falcon upon the ramparts of the house of him of the hidden name.

A heliograph on the top (rampart) of the Great Pyramid.

My flights have reached the horizon.

Blinks of light “the message” could be read as far away as the horizon and be transmitted to the next horizon.

I have passed by the gods of Nut. I have gone further that the gods of old. Even the most ancient bird could not equal my very first flight.

Coded Blinks of light traveling at the speed of light beyond the horizon.

I have removed my place beyond the power of Set, the foe of my father Osiris.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on December 13, 2007, 10:58:03 am
Qoais,

Terriffic!  What is the link for this?  Wiki?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on December 13, 2007, 11:32:41 am
"Pegasus"
 horses, just as General Crook used horses to transport his Heliograph to the top of the mountains Homer's Bellerophon found one of Medusa lost horses with a sun disk aboard with its wings . That is why Bellerophon named the horse  "Pegasus" to defeat the Chimera.
of a horse with wings on its back in war: as a flying horse. The ancient translation of the word we pronounce Pegasus is “Aries PEG-ACE” Which is Aries : Mars the god of war, “PEG” which mean a “stratagem” and Mirrored pool and “ASPAS” the signaling bright shield[IMG http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Neo-HittiteWingedSunrelief.jpg[/img]

NICE conjecture QOAIS,

But the picture of two horned men or animals lifting a Sundisk with Wings from a groundtrodden person is a well known THEME in Egyptian creation Lore,  conserning the separation of the Heavens from Earth.  ;D    ( After the SintFLOOD had destroyed Atlantis.)here TWO Ram-headded persons (= Wind-God SHU. )lift the " Universe "/= fallen-Sky, in the form of NUT, from the reclined person called Geb(= earth.). . . . . in the original version.     The Assyrians used men with belt-tails and horned hats instead. the( the Double heaedded eagle was a symbol of south-wind the ZEPHYR of Frankincense.   PEG  or PIG means Elephant to me, because a Flying Horse was POSEIDON's steed or Hippocampos.

The Hyppocampos was a demonized( Flying-)Elephant and it is little known, that God/Planet  POSEIDON and Ares were identical, after a collision with a comet ( Dione ?)the water-planet Poseidon lost it's water by evaporation or a thaw-out freezing process, and became the arid Ares.(= Mars.)   :'(        :'(


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 13, 2007, 11:58:53 am
Blue Hue, that is an interpretation that you accept, however, for myself, I'm looking for anything that makes sense.  We know the Egyptians always made something to look like something else, and they expressed themselves somewhat differently back then, as everything they did, they credited it to some God or other.

Rocky, I'll get back to you on your question.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 14, 2007, 11:29:08 am
First when you view "Egyptian Art" they do not use "Three Point Perspective" they turn the important portions of their images out. Even if the part should behind the main portion of the picture. So you have to mentally refold the picture into three dimensions.
A process modern man has over come by the uses of "Three Point Perspective "

Now if you link to this site http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highl...p;retpage=15277

(Link doesn't seem to work)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/EyeofHorus.jpg)

You will notice the leg and talons that holds up the eye of Horus (tripod) however usually it is depicted as a thick line from the base of the eye with a curved line also part of the suspension of the device. You will also a "Long Eye Brow" that was the "Shutter"

If you look at this image imagehttp://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_image.aspx?image=ps267882.jpg&retpage=15276

Look at the end of the eye brow you will see vertical lines there . That brush would blink the golden mirror.

Now think of the Heliograph system from a "Standing Start" transmitting a message from Horizon to Horizon. That message could be sent and received before modern man's could even start the fastest supersonic jet.

"My flights have reached the horizon. I have passed by the gods of Nut. I have gone further that the gods of old. Even the most ancient bird could not equal my very first flight."

PS We get our word "Horizon" from the name "Horus"


My flights have reached the horizon.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 14, 2007, 11:30:47 am
Even the Taoism religion a sect of Zoastrisiom has four Holy artifacts. The Four Bronze Mirrors of the first century. A trace of a type of communication system was mentioned in the 13th century traveler Marco Polo account of his visit to the Far East. The account mentions that the Emperor of China was alerted to Polo's arrival by sunlight reflected by mirrors between mountaintops along Polo's route.

The Celtic people of Wales and Ireland used the blinker type of code in Europe. This code system is called Oghams and is formed by incising from one to five straight strokes above or below or both above and below the base line. Again a Trinary type of code system or blinker code system

The piece of stroke that is above the line the stroke would equal a Morris code DOT and is the same as used for the letter E

If the piece of stroke was below the line that stroke would be a Morris Code DASH is the same as used for the letter T A short dash

When the stroke was on both sides of the line the symbol would be a long dash like the letter L a long Dash.

However each country might have its own way to write it down. So how far could it go

A good-looking woman named Helen (the wife of Menelmaus, King of Sparta) got the Ancient world in to a twist almost 3100 years ago after she was kidnapped: Menelmaus, Agamemnon and the Greek army went to Troy to free her. Even as the siege ensued, another woman waited in her palace, back at Mycennae in Greece for word of the battle. Her name was Clytemnestra, sister in-law to Helen and the unfaithful wife of Agamemnon the Commander of the Greek forces. Agamemnon had aggravated the problems with Troy by stealing Chryemneis , the daughter of one of the priests of Troy.
Clytemnestra was over 450 miles from Troy by land and 250 miles by a land-sea route. As she paced back and forth, she wondered how long must she wait for news of the siege . If Caesar Augustus's (27 BC to 14 AD) Postal System had been available to her, it would have taken four and a half days to make the trip from Troy, with an average speed of one hundred miles per day. If William F. “Buffalo Bill" Cody's Pony Express was doing the delivery it would have taken three days, based on the best time from St. Joseph to Sacramento. The carrier pigeon message system developed by the Arabs sometime between the 7th and the 9th century AD, would have taken two days if it came back at all. The square sailed ships of the time just would not meet the new racing yacht specifications of today and if the winds were contrary it could have taken weeks: and if Odyssey was in charge years.

The funny thing is that Aeschylus the Greek Dramatist Said that Clytemnestra knew that day. But how could she know? Did space aliens tell her? NO! Was she a clarvoincant? NO! An out of body experience? NO! Catoptromance (a magic Mirror)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 14, 2007, 11:31:55 am
Pyramid text translation from:

Faulkner R.O, Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Text, Oxford University Press, 1969,P 117


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on December 16, 2007, 05:08:49 pm
 8)



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 19, 2007, 11:00:44 pm
A couple of links to the ancient use of mirrors:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/olympus/6581/chronos10b.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6581/chronos10c.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on December 31, 2007, 03:50:53 am
Although I haven't seen the peer reviewed paper of Prof. Barsoum's that was supposed to be out in August, regarding the pyramids being partially constructed of concrete, I did come across a site debunking the similarities between the Egyptian pyramids and the American ones. 

Actually, the most interesting line in the whole thing (to me) was this:

Quote
Yet, no matter how many blacksmiths stood ready to sharpen and re-sharpen the tools of Al Mamun’s work force, they could not penetrate the exterior.

Now al Mamun tried to get into the GP in 820 AD.  I guess he must not have had the quality copper tools of the ancient Egyptians of 3000 years earlier when they built the thing! :P 

http://anth507.tripod.com/pyramids.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on January 10, 2008, 04:52:24 pm
A good-looking woman named Helen (the wife of Menelmaus, King of Sparta) got the Ancient world in to a twist almost 3100 years ago after she was kidnapped: Menelmaus, Agamemnon and the Greek army went to Troy to free her. Even as the siege ensued, another woman waited in her palace, back at Mycennae in Greece for word of the battle. Her name was Clytemnestra, sister in-law to Helen . “Buffalo Bill" Cody's Pony Express was doing the delivery it would have taken three days, based on the best time from St. Joseph to Sacramento. The carrier pigeon message system developed by the Arabs sometime between the 7th and the 9th century AD, would have taken two days if it came back at all. : and if Odyssey was in charge years.

The funny thing is that Aeschylus the Greek Dramatist Said that Clytemnestra knew that day. But how could she know? Did space aliens tell her? NO! Was she a clarvoincant? NO! An out of body experience? NO! Catoptromance (a magic Mirror)

Dear  QUOAIS:

WHAT about Mail carrying Pidgeons ? ?  ;D Besides " Troy" of Schliemann was a copy( one of the few that sprang up as POST-Trojan-colonies, at Truva or ILLION(=Nova.)   the REAL TROY at the IRON GATE or " Hellespont", was named TAURUSIA or : TAUROS ROSSIA meaning:" White-ELEPHANT- Bull.)and is TODAY:the city of TARSOS in Cillicia ( =south East Turkey.) " BlueHue  " 22 10 Jan-2008  :'(


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 11, 2008, 03:37:45 am
Blue,  you are absolutely correct about the pigeons... there are twin doves/pigeons symbols found at some of the sites where the Apollonian mysteries were held.

Don't agree about Troy though.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 11, 2008, 06:08:54 am
this city was unknown to western science until 2005 according to the preseident of the european archaeological society anthony harding. the only 20th century study done was described in the 2006 report as being all lies.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.932528,21.238461&spn=0.068292,0.138702&t=h&z=13&om=1

5000acres enclosed, walls heaped up from both sides and 300feet across one of them. hotsprings, war dykes and all the other goodies the illiad talks about.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 11, 2008, 06:28:45 am
but if thats troy then there should be a huge three ring city laying about called atlantis. well there is this thing

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.506347,21.166534&spn=0.550518,1.109619&t=h&z=10&om=1


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 11, 2008, 06:37:12 am
gades, garden of yima

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.012996,21.017189&spn=0.034708,0.069351&t=h&z=14&om=1


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 11, 2008, 06:40:16 am
uranos chair or olympia triphyllios [temple there is unknown]

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.443616,22.691875&spn=0.004229,0.008669&t=h&z=17&om=1


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 11, 2008, 06:42:53 am
atlas

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=47.592041,24.639072&spn=0.06622,0.138702&t=h&z=13&om=1


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on January 11, 2008, 12:10:00 pm
Quote
The carrier pigeon message system developed by the Arabs sometime between the 7th and the 9th century AD, would have taken two days if it came back at all.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on January 12, 2008, 01:40:55 pm
CARRIER Pidgeons were a secret in War times, evdery Army had it's carrier Pidgeons it was  a selfevidend fact , The Arabs may have develloped a new- non-military CIVIL Mail-Postservice apart from the allready continually existing militairy one, why even NOACH let loose an untrained Pidgeon that came back !  Today the hobby Pidgeonbreeders,  may have gray mail carrying- pidgeons but the Greeks used white Pidgeons to avoid them beiing shot for food by hunters in the field.    Besides the Peacefull OWL-bird,  WhitePidgeons of Athena were always  warbirds, only with an Olivebranche in its beak, it was a Peacebringer ! :'(  :'(  " BlueHue" dd 11 Jan.  2008


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on January 12, 2008, 02:10:02 pm
Blue,  you are absolutely correct about the pigeons... there are twin doves/pigeons symbols found at some of the sites where the Apollonian mysteries were held.Don't agree about Troy though.

Dear, . . Rockincense,

TROY has a strange Founding history ,
because it was Founded Trice :
First,   Princess Europa founded it, than secondly her husband ( Astreion or Astraeus in his" guise" as:)Dardanus than Thirdly their grandson Tros than Teucer than Laomedon, but these would be new foundations of added suburbs !

That Schliemann did not find the original TROY
despite himself saying so, is a common oversight overlooked by all archaeologists because at the time Troy's Citadel,florished  it  was 30 meters above mean Sea-Level.

EUSTATICS  mean Sea-level rise since Troy's destruction:

Since year 855 bc until 755 bc this mean sea-level has risen 50 meters, thus at present the original Troy must be 20 meters below present mean-sea-level , thus the Citadell of " TRUVA" at the Dardanelles is situated too high above the Landscape !   it is as simple as that.

Besides as I was saying earlier, the GEO-Name of ' TROY" is wrong because the original name was TAURUSIA or Tauros Rossia" which name is only applied to the original name of  present TARSOS in Cilicia(= presently in Gullukule.)

Myth has it that AFTER the burning of Troy, all Troyans LEFT the original City and re-Founded Troy FIVE times in:1> Truva, 2>Buthrotum. 3>Pergamum, 4>Venice and 5>Rome !

Certainly after the original Troyans left other Nationals rebuilt this original City not 10 times as in TRUVA at the Dardanelles, but 20 times because the Rivers SEHAN and CEYHAN ( formerly Sarus & Pyramus, ) kept overflowing the City like in newOrleans !  Consequently one City below 20 layers at TARSOS was the original " Troy".

Heinrich Schliemann owned the Orange orchyard on the hills of Hissarlik and it was just too convenient for him to " Find" TROY there !   Next to TARSOS is ADANA which is the Second City founded as New-Atlantis by Dardanos AFTER the destruction of the Isle of Ad.    Please Read my SUB-Script for a NUTSHELL-overview/ of my Theory-explanation

You were saying that TROY which Schliemann found in 1868 were the original one and that You don't agree with the Facts as I present them to  you ?

Why am I aquainted with this sequence of events,   was it,  because I knew more on the Subject than You did, or because the ancient historians or presentday Classicists were " sleeping on the Job" ?!

Sincerely   :'(  " BlueHue"     :'(    dd- 11- Jan.- 2008


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 12:45:02 am
Hi Blue,

I believe that Schliemann was wrong and the academics that "finally" agree with his story, have done so just because nothing better has come across their radar.  There was absolutely nothing there to conclusively prove that it was Troy, according to some.

Personally, I find Felice Vinci's scholarship is the most convincing....that Troy was located in southwestern Finland, and that the entire Iliad happenings took place in the Baltic Sea area nearing the end of the "climatic optimum"  of about 2500 BC.

He has located the exact spot and, surprise, there is still a village there: Toija.... The landscape and geography and river systems which converge there, and the surrounding hills and the plain (now flooded by the rivers) are an EXACT  fit to Homer's careful and exact descriptions.  There are even place names in the surrounding area that match people who were participants in the drama.   Another point: there is nothing in Homer to suggest that Troy was built of anything other than wood.

Vinci's ten years of study and many travels to the area and the Baltic Sea surround has located countless matches to Homer's words in the Iliad and as well in the Odyssey.

http://www.innertraditions.com/Product.jmdx?action=displayDetail&id=2068


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 13, 2008, 07:56:20 am
exactly. why would the greeks ever want to attack the largest city in europe [at least] which controlled the known sources of wealth and was just across the mountains from them.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on January 13, 2008, 03:25:03 pm
Dear Rockessence:
how can troy could be somewhere else?homer shows Troy in his world map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homer_world_map-en.svg
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Homer_world_map-en.svg/600px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 06:12:53 pm
My point is that there has never been agreement of Homer's geography matching the Mediterranean, in fact many extremely important places, which he mentions more than once, are seemingly nowhere to be found. 

http://www.antiquos.com/La-Atlantida-de-Platon/iframe.php?file=http://www.antiquos.com/La-Atlantida-de-Platon/texts/interactive-homer-odissey-map.html

"Odysseus' journey does not map with certainty onto any known geography. Homer doesn't specify exact locations. This has not stopped Homer's readers, ancient as well as modern, from attempting to reconstruct his travels by real world landmarks in the Mediterranean -- and it won't stop us! While the map produced here should be used with this caveat, it will give a useful guide to keeping his wanderings straight, and a workable approximation of the physical template onto which Homer and his audience might have projected the hero's travels. We can be relatively sure that Homer's audience of sea-faring traders would have done a similar exercise, trying to match Odysseus' travels with their own experiences in the Mediterranean. Read books 8-13 carefully, and gather as much empircal data as you can. Try to produce your own rough map of Odysseus' journey. If you find evidence that argues against the map produced here, please feel free to produce it."


Here is a link to a paper by Dr. Vinci:

http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/felicevincilocationoftroy.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 13, 2008, 06:42:32 pm
as a canadian? gelogist? i cannot believe you don't do the bugs bunny gold dance when i mention the carpathians. you must be the only one that doesn't have a couple of hundred acres somewhere there.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 06:44:13 pm
Here is a link to more from Vinci here in AO:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/board,132.0.html


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 06:45:54 pm
as a canadian? gelogist? i cannot believe you don't do the bugs bunny gold dance when i mention the carpathians. you must be the only one that doesn't have a couple of hundred acres somewhere there.

'splain your self, Lucy!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on January 13, 2008, 09:33:42 pm
Dear Rockessence:
How in the world Homeros should know about Finland? :P The names in Finland should have been named much later..


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 10:01:24 pm
Julia,

Did you read any of the material?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 13, 2008, 10:02:26 pm
as a canadian? gelogist? i cannot believe you don't do the bugs bunny gold dance when i mention the carpathians. you must be the only one that doesn't have a couple of hundred acres somewhere there.

'splain your self, Lucy!

i thought i saw someone ask if a quake in canada affected you. and your name etc seems to say geology.

i have been following canadian exploration activities in the carpathians for some years. got a little dicey as of very late but an enormous amount of dollars have been spent there. a romanian once told me that being romanian is a profession not a nationality.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: rockessence on January 13, 2008, 10:05:24 pm
I am in WA state....not too far but not in Canada.  As for the Carpathians... I am familiar with Vlad the Impaler but that's about it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 13, 2008, 10:36:04 pm
there are staggering amounts of gold etc in them thar hills. still even after what the greeks, romans and franks etc drug out.

Raiders of the lost art

By Gabriel Ronay

The spirit of Indiana Jones is alive and well in the Carpathians. Twenty centuries after the invading Roman legions robbed all the gold they could find in the ancient kingdom of Dacia, treasure hunters using state-of-the art technologies are hot on the trail of the fabulous treasure trove King Decebalus hid in 106 AD and the Romans never found.
The French archaeologist Jerome Carcopino, a world-renowned Dacian expert, has estimated that Decebalus’s hidden treasure amounted to 165,000kg of gold and 350,000kg of silver. The value of the treasure has made it worth the risk for some to undertake illegal digs near Sarmizegetusa, the ancient Dacian capital in Romania’s Orastiei Mountains. The quest has resulted in a flood of illegally dug-up Dacian gold onto the international art smugglers’ market. In recent years, 33 illegal excavations of archaeological sites, commissioned by international robbers, have been uncovered by the authorities in Hunedoara county.

Archaeological researcher Mihai Castaian has drawn up a map of recent illegal digs by raiders in search of the gold King Decebalus hid somewhere in the Orastiei Mountains. These furtive excavations appear to have centred on Cucuis, with the ancient Transylvanian castle of Colnic as the focal point. Other Dacian gold-yielding places include Glajarie, Golu, and the castle of Sibisel.

But Castaian told the Bucharest daily, Ziua, he has proof that the “archaeologist gangs” are now concentrating on the village of Cetatuia, Hunedoara county, believing that the mysterious gold treasure of King Decebalus was definitely hidden in the vicinity.

Meanwhile, a trial in the Transylvanian town of Deva of six local men, allegedly employed by international art smuggler gangs, has shed some light on the scale of the plundering of the Dacian heritage sites.

Decebalus’s hidden treasure has, over the years, yielded stunning amounts of gold. Since 1990, more than 20,000 Dacian gold coins dug up have been smuggled out of Romania and sold on the Western coin black market for more than €20 million. A further 7845 ancient gold coins, 190 gold works of art and plates smuggled out of the country have been recovered, the court has been told.

In view of this haemorrhaging of the country’s heritage, it has been ruefully recalled that, when the region was still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Treasures Protection Act of 1802 successfully protected Decebalus’s gold for two centuries. Now there is no effective protection.

Bucharest sources say that police have proof that the accused, who cannot be named for legal reasons, had had links to international dealers in plundered art. One of them, an Austrian art dealer in Linz, codenamed “Mozart”, is under investigation for handling hundreds of illegally excavated gold objects.

The secret diggers have until now been virtually untouchable because they have allegedly been protected, the court heard, by top politicians and officers of the secret services.

The Deva court has let it be known that Adrian Nastase, Romania’s former Socialist prime minister, and Ioan Talpes, former head of the secret services, are to be subpoenaed. They are to be questioned about the apparent immunity of international smuggling rings under their administration.

The horror story of how Dacia, the source of all this gold, had been repeatedly invaded, and eventually subjugated, by Rome’s legions is carved in marble. Emperor Trajan’s 98ft column, which celebrates his victory over Decebalus, is still standing in Trajan’s Forum in Rome. It was paid for by a grateful Senate and completed in 113 AD.

A 656ft bas-relief frieze winding around the column tells in grisly detail about the two Roman wars against Dacia, the final despoliation of the capital of Sarmizegetusa, the “ethnic cleansing” of its population and the destruction of its culture.

To avoid a horrible and demeaning death in Roman hands, Decebalus committed suicide – but not before having had his vast treasure hidden in the Orastiei Mountains in the high Carpathians surrounding his shattered capital.

Now the latter-day Indiana Joneses, armed with state-of-the-art technologies, are trying to achieve what the Romans had failed to – locate Decebalus’s ghostly treasure chamber.

25 June 2006

http://www.sundayherald.com/56400


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on January 14, 2008, 07:54:20 am
OH, SORRY  NERC, good Luck on promoting the romanian border !   ;D


Indiana Jones
did not find Atlantis neither,  although I play his Game with childish pleasure, nor does Rockincense in Finland or the Germans in Greenland. Please READ my SUB- Script for a NUTSHELL- Explanation " Why ". Sincerely " BlueHue "  :'(   :'(  dd 14 Jan. 2008


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 14, 2008, 09:06:23 am
my point is that romania happens to be that one spot on earth where something important could be and in the best tradition of dimestore novels kept from the world. it is still illegal to fly from a romanian airport over romania with a camera.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on January 14, 2008, 12:19:59 pm
DEAR . . . .   JULIA,


Before I forget , my CONGRATULATIONS on your THREAD:" -FLOOD-Destructed People in the KORAN"

imagine in this Herodotus map, that GREECE is YEMEN, in South-Arabia and TRIRNACRIA(= Sicilly) would be Erthiapia/ the AFAR Triangle, than TROY would be were ADEN sits, that why some people confused TROY with Atlantis,

However Troy and ATHENS were FOUNDED only shortly AFTER Atlantis destruction .  Read my SUB- Script !


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Nerc on January 14, 2008, 05:17:46 pm
is troy?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8TmYAoFaQ


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: julia on January 14, 2008, 07:16:10 pm
Dear Rockwssence and Bluehue:

I think Plato took this stroy from several stroies.And Anything could be true.Ill wait`til Atlantis is really found..(With Canals etc)
 :D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on January 16, 2008, 04:51:00 pm
Hi Guys,
Been off-line for a while.  Phone techie finally came today and fixed everything so am back up and running.  It was pure hell, not being able to access the internet.  There is a silver lining tho, as they gave me a nice new modem and a month's free internet because of their screw up.

Carrying on about the use of mirrors (reflectors) as communications devices:

The Cuneiform to Morrse Code
Topic: heliographic code
 
The Book of Pa-Hanok speaks of several non-human beings that gave man certain pieces of knowledge (not all good). Some examples are the manufacturing of mirrors with the implication that those mirrors were clad with liquid metal (quicksilver) and a written language. This is the Trinary code system known as Cuneiform.
The symbols are called Cuneiform (Latin, CUNEUS "wedges-form) [ii] These symbols where formed on soft clay tablets or tables with apiece of reed also called a stylist that is either pushed or pulled in the soft clay of the table.
When the message was complete it would be transcribed on to a soft clay cylinder or roller that would then be kiln dried to harden after it cooled it would be painted with oil. Then the cylinder was used to roll out copies of the message by placing the cylinder on soft clay tables and rolling the cylinder like a fancy pastry textured rolling pin by that means transferring the message to as many tables as needed, this same system was used in the Jewish watchtowers of Isaiah [iii]
"Prepare the tables, (clay tables) watch in the watchtowers.... O princes and anoint the shield" (With quick silver).
Sorry to change your view of history but the first rapid Printing press was not Gutenberg he was over ten thousand years late.
The Being that gave that written language to Man had many names The Aramaic text called him "Hermoni" [iv] the Greeks called him, "Hermes "or "Armers" for the morning star.[v] The early culture of Mexico his name was   "Quechua[vi]",  The  ancient  Chinese,  "Fu-his"[vii]   The  Egyptians,
"Thoth", The Babylon's "Nabu"[viii] a contraction of what Pa-Hanok called him "Penemeu" and the Romans called him "Mercury", the Herald of the gods That Being that gave the written language to Man.
 

The symbols for Nabu are universal: they are a reed or stylize to form Cuneiform[ix], winged shoes to denote speed that his messages are delivered, his traveling hat the Petasos
  • [xi] which has a low crown with a wide brim or wings turn it on its side and it is the silhouette of a Sun Disk, or the Egyptian Eye of Horus.
To convert Nabu's Cuneiform alphabet to a blinker code similar to the famous Morrse Even as, simple as Cuneiform was: after the message was transcribed you can find a more stylized form of script for public consumption. The men that transcribed the message would use the simplest form.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on January 16, 2008, 04:53:48 pm
Grade School Code Breakers
Topic: heliographic code

 
 

There are other blinker codes of the past, but first let us go back to your child hood, grade school and those code breaking hand outs. How did you break those codes? First you counted the most used symbols in the text. When using the English language that was almost always the letter "E." The next most often used was "T" followed by "I, A, N, O, R, and S. The simple way to remember them is the word that they spell "SENORITA"[1] Then it was a simple matter of filling in the blanks to make the message make sense. Samuel F. Morris used that same principle to make his famous Morris Code .He made the most used letters the simplest. Now you can win at "HANG MAN."
 

 
 
The Greek and the Hebrew alphabets both have a number component to each of the letters[2]. The Greek Ionian letter is A for one or 1 in the Greek Attic and corresponds to Aleph the first letter in the Hebrew alphabet the number go consecutively to the number ten. At that point by tens, ten through ninety the next letter is one hundred and goes up by one hundred jumps. To nine hundred though some of the last few numbers are not letters in either alphabet: but a type of symbol just for that number. On the next page is a chart with both alphabets and their corresponding letters and the Greek Attic equivalents beside that are the blinker code symbols and the equation used to formulate the code.[3]   

ARITHMONANCY CODE
 

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj186/hwest007/numbers.jpg

X marks the Spot
Notice that the number sixty has the same symbol for both codes: .the Greek letters and the blinker code transcription Sorry but the letter name is "Xi": it marks the spot that the two codes match code symbols. However, later in history the form of the top dash of the letter Xi is elongated. Also notice that the simplest codes are highlighted because those are the most used letters in the most ancient texts of both the Greek and the Hebrew alphabets. That is a tell tail sign of a designed code system that was used with a transmitted system
Not only that both alphabets have the same order as the northern Semite alphabet of the Hittites, they also mirror the early Ugaritic Cuneiform symbol because they were all alphanumeric/Heliographic codes. These codes allowed the most used letters to have the simplest symbol that corresponds to 1, 5, 10 2, 4, 6, 9, 50 and 100. Here is the kicker, the message would be totaled so that when it was received a "line cipher" was given with the total of the message or line by line so if the numbers totals did not match up the message could be resent or the error is discovered.
 

There are at least two places where this principle is still used. First in computer code writing so that the errors in the written code can be found if the computer or software has a malfunction and where the error is so it can be fixed. The Jews still use those number values of their alphabet to total their Holy Scriptures. This is so that, the WORD of GOD would be constant without variations. Problem is that there are no vowels with a number value and the text only has constants that do. If a certain group of letters could have several meanings they pick the vowels that fit the context of the text. Most of the time they are right but biases work in .The men that do the scribal work on the scriptures are still called Counters.[4]
It was this same problem of lack of vowels in the text all Middle Eastern alphabets that caused the problem with the choice of letters in the Great King of Lights[5]

Celtic Blinker Code
 

The Celtic people of Wales and Ireland used the blinker type of code in Europe. This code system is called Oghams[6] and is formed by incising from one to five straight strokes above or below or both above and below the base line. Again a Trinary type of code system or blinker code system
The piece of stroke that is above the line the stroke would equal a Morris code DOT  Ÿ  and is the same as used for the letter E
If the piece of stroke was below the line that stroke would be a Morris Code DASH is the same as used for the letter T            A short dash -
When the stroke was on both sides of the line the symbol would be a long dash like the letter L a long Dash. ______
 



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on January 16, 2008, 05:14:00 pm
1 of 4 Greek, Hebrew, Egyptian and Cretan hieroglyphic
Topic: heliographic code
 
 



 

This device is called a twin mirror Heliograph, however to the ancient Egyptians it was called a Mekhenti-Irry: Horus with two eyes on his brow. This device allowed for a signal to be transmitted to any point on the horizon (360o) any time of day. From an over head view it has a resemblance to the symbol:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/twinmirrorHeliograph.jpg)



 

This device is called a Sun disk
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/SunDisk.jpg)


 

 which had a limited field of transmission because of its signal mirror design. From an over head view  with its wings folded to restrict the field of view of its reflected light has a resemblance to  an


Alpha and Alef

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/AlphaandAlef.jpg)

 (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Aleph.jpg)

Similar pronunciations of this symbol in both Greek and Hebrew  "A," though the Hebrew can be unpredictable in it pronunciation.
 (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Alpha.jpg)

Below are references to seven so called "acrostic Psalms." In which Hebrew characters divides each Psalms. With in those divisions the symbolic concept is given of that character. That definition can be a positive one or a sinister one, depending on the location in the word spelled. This happens most often when the letter is to the left of the symbol "Daleth". This concept makes each symbol an antonym of it self which doubles the number of concepts. 

The symbolize concept from

Psalms 119:1, 9:1, 25:1, 34:1, 37:1 103:1, 145:1
 "Proclaim

"Obedience or action to please another"
 

Most scholars of today consider this Hebrew symbol to have the been the symbol for an ox (+ friendly, gentle, or tame). How ever the Greeks name fore this symbol is "Alphaios" from an ancient Hebrew word "Chalaph" which is :"to slide by." What an eye lid does when you blink, the same action as a bright shield (asps) or eye of Horus would have done as its reflection was interrupted as a message was being transmitted.

 

The Egyptian and Cretan hieroglyphic also lean toward this Heliographic link, with the hawk glyph (Horus) and the rising snake (the Eye of Re). The Bright Shield heliograph was a willing and obedient servant. And in the Babylonian culture the bright shield (heliograph) was symbolized as a winged OX  and the Apis bull of Egypt with its Golden mirror between its horns and its winged sun disk over its shoulders and its rump which brings the concept full circle .

 
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/BetandBeta.jpg)
 

Bet and Beta



Similar pronunciations of this symbol in

Greek and Hebrew "B"
The symbolize concept from
Psalms 9:3, 25:2, 34:2, 37:3, 103:2,  119:11 145:2
The Heart,
 Hidden in, or inner room
 

The most simplistic meaning is "house" or floor plan of a house[ii]. However the Egyptians hieroglyph was a square spiral, symbolizing a passageway leading to an inner chamber. The Greek word "Bathos" [iii]means: profound, deep(ness, things) or mystery.   

 

As in the greeting "Shalom, Shalom" : Peace on the out side and peace to  the inner man,  the two dots of this  heliographic character is Proclaim  to the out side and Proclaim to in the inner man: the heart, 

 

Gimel and Gamma

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/BetandBeta.jpg)

Similar pronunciations of this symbol in
Greek and Hebrew, "G"
The symbolize concept from
Psalms 9:5, 25:3, 34:3, 37:4, 103:3 119:17 145:3
A Benefactor
Or Servant, to be in submission,
The camel symbolizes this Hebrew[iv] as it does in Greek[v]. However the Greek word used for camel is "kamelos" from its roots of "kamino"[vi] which means closed eye, "kaio"[vii] : kindled fire and "muo" : to shut or a mystery.

 

This concept is used because the camel has a double set of eye lashes which when the animal is in a dust storm it can squint though the lashes  to see to navigate but not much else. Which is line with the second name for this beast "ekkopto"[viii]  to frustrate or hinder. However that is not as bad as being digamma[ix]: with twice closed eyes.

 

The heliographic code of three dots  means the benefactor.

 

Dalet and Delta

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DaletandDelta.jpg)

Similar pronunciations of this symbol in the Greek and Hebrew, "D"
The symbolize concept from
Psalms 9:6,25:4, 34:4, 37:5, 103:4, 119:25 145:4
A Door
to be upright, deliverance as through a door or a walkway or the "rampart" over a river dam and a dam
To be on the right side of this symbol is positive
On the left is sinister

 

"Deleth"
  • is a door or the valve of a doorway or gate in Hebrew. However digging a little deeper I found that  a similar word "dalaph" [xi]: to weep or tears and "dalach"[xii] is roil of water; troubled.

The ancient Semitic concept for this letter was a triangle on its side , symbolizing a lake with a vertical line in front of its horizontal point symbolizing a dam.

 

Egypt is a country that receives very little rain fall. However it was an agricultural power house of the ancient world. The way they "Quickened" that  dry and thirst land, was to control the annual flooding of the Nile. 

 

Now how did they do that? The same way the Egyptians do it now. With a huge dam of course. That dam created the Mythical Sea of Nun how ever it was no myth. We have several  descriptions of the destruction caused by the draining of this lake. The best is in the 19 chapter of Isaiah.

The heliographic code is a dot " to proclaim" over a short dash "The Guide or Way."

 

He and Epsilon
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/HeandEpsilon.jpg)
The symbolize concept from

Psalms  9:5, 25:5, 34:5, 37:5, 119:33, 103:5, 145:5
The Way, Guide , or provide
Similar pronunciations of this symbol in Greek and Hebrew, "E, or H"

 

This is the second symbol in the "Sacred Name." The Hebrew word "He" [xiii]: is "to behold" and "Heach":[xiv] "understand." The Greek letter Epsilon brakes down to "hand" [xv] and Lion [xvi] of Judah?

 

However the Phoenician origin is "Cheth" which is thought to mean: "fence." In the Western US, "horse hunting" was wide spread up until the 1960's. The easiest way to capture the animals was to create a fence and run the horses along the fence. However that could be expensive for a one time operation. The problem was solved with the use of a common house hold paper product "white toilet tissue ." The Wranglers would unroll miles of this paper to create a fence. To a horse the white paper looked solid. So they would stay inside the  tissue paper fence and the Wranglers would use the fence to "guide" the horses to the corral. However if a "wild ass" (a burro) was in the herd he would run through the paper fence, taking the horses with him. So the wild asses were shot before the round up. Sound like what Moses would do: with those who rebelled against the LAW and got on the sinister side of the fence.

The heliographic code is a short dash the meaning "The Guide"  or the "Way."


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on March 09, 2008, 11:56:56 am
DEAR----JULIA,

I have trouble locating the FIAT- LUX website,
I print www.FiatLux.smfforfree2.com/ and get an ERROR  MESSAGE: " WEB-PAGE  NOT  FOUND ! Can you please give me the RIGHT " Fiat-Lux" Forum address I seem to have MISPLACED a Comma or a Point  THANK  YOU.

For Information about Plato's Atlantis-Story origin:  He mainly used the older Myth of DANAOS(= ADAM.) and EGYPTOS9= Seth.)
which also displayed the THEME of HYBRIS like in Parabel LUKE-16 about the Bad Steward like in the HYBRIS conduct of ATHENS as Leader of the Attiv-Delian SEA- League which was Plato's secret MOTIVE,

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd March 9 - 2008.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 11, 2008, 09:26:57 pm




Blue,


I think that Julia has finally left the US to join her husband in another country.

If you remember, she has been on the verge of leaving for a few months now.

She probably closed down her site before departure.

B


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 11:57:38 am
BACK TO ATLANTIS
 
by Alberto Arecchi

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/pre-med.jpg)
 

Imagine to go back in the time, 3300 years ago, about the year 1300 b.C. (i.e. 9000 months – not 9000 years!!! - before Solon, from whose narration Plato philosopher drew his information about the lost land of Atlantis).
At that time, the sea today known as the Mediterranean Sea had to be divided in two parts, placed at different levels and deprived of mutual communications. The western Mediterranean and the Tyrrhenian were - as they are today - in communication with the Ocean, through Gibraltar, opened more than thousand years before. The eastern part – i.e. the Greeks’ Mediterranean – was properly an “interior sea”, like a lake, from the Small Syrte to the Syro-Palestinian coasts, including lower Adriatic and Candia Sea (while the Aegean territory, all emerging, was a plain, crowned by volcanic mountains). Its waters would be approximately 300 m under the level of today. We will note this level as “level zero”, in order to measure the relative altitudes.
The Channel of Sicily (as today we know it) was at that time a fertile plain, watered from rivers and protected by high mountains. At the extreme west of the eastern Mediterranean, not far away from the island of Malta, two tightened mouths opened to a great gulf, deep more than thousand meters. Around that gulf, protected at its mouths by a great island, a flourishing civilization was risen from Libyan people, that where perhaps had come down by te highlands of the south.
Who had come by east, from Crete or from Egypt, would see a rocky, steep coast, in which two straits opened, at the sides of a wide island, approximately 150 m high. The two streats, north and the west of the island, measured 15 - 30 km. We can identify in this system the “Heracles’ columns” of the ancient mythology (one of the two “columns” appears identifiable with the island of Malta).
Toward north-west, beside the great gulf, a high peak (more than 1100 m from the waters of the lower sea), that today we know as Pantelleria island.
The western sea, connected from many centuries with the waters of the Ocean through the mouth of Gibraltar, was near to overflow and to spread towards the gulf and the eastern Mediterranean, placed at a lower level. This was a true hanging curse for the people (Atlantoi-Tjehenu) that inhabited those lands, but they were convinced that geographical asset could last, as they had always known.
To the west of the “port” or gulf it spread a width, fertile plain, which perfectly corresponds, in physical and climatic features, to the territory described by Plato. The philosopher narrates the inhabitants of Atlantis grew - between others - dates and bananas, and in the fauna detaches the presence of elephants.
The distance from the gulf, towards south, until to the sides of the western Mediterranean, is 540 km, and the one from the coast of the gulf until the reliefs, that delimited an inner sea, 360 km.
On the volcanic hills, there were the mines and, approximately 450 km from the waters of the Mediterranean, spread an enormous water basin: like a sea, whose surface was at the level of 650 m upon the Mediterranean. That sea collected the waters of an immense rain basin, whose extent, south, arrived until the Tassili and the Ahaggar (Hoggar, “Atlas” mountain, according with Herodote). Its waters, at the time, fed an emissary who came down towards east, to the Mediterranean: a perennial river watered lands of the immense plain. The bottom of that basin is today a great sand sediment, the eastern Grand Erg (Igharghar): one of bigger sand deserts in the world.
Two main tracks lead from the Mediterranean shores towards mountains of Ahaggar. The first one runs along the west shore of the ancient upper Sea, the other one along its eastern shore. This is the great “carts road”, cause of its rock paintings and graffiti, representing scenes of life of the second millenary b.C., with hunting men, herders, cart drivers.
In that region a pre-Libyan people founded an empire. They were great constructors and great navigators and knew writing, with an alphabeth presumablly similar to the Libyan-Berber one; they were were called “Tjehenu” by the Egyptians and were the Atlantói of Plato’s Dialogues.
That people could have reached the coasts of the Mediterranean from the great mountains of the South, called “Atlas” by Herodote.
At least from 3000 b.C. Atlantói were able to construct fortresses with great stone-blocks and lived in a constant confrontation with the empire of the Pharaohs: it was the so-called “war of the bronze”. Between the products of vital importance for the spread of the technology, they had the important monopoly of obsidian, a stone (volcanic glass) very important for the production of blades and other objects. Mines of native copper (oréi-chalkos) were on the hills of Atlantis, but the great technological innovation was the use of the bronze, an alloy of copper and tin, with better hardness and resistance.
The strategic objective in order to obtain the monopoly of the bronze was the control of the mines of tin, of which Africa is lacking. The Pharaohs supported for this the long war against the Hittites and conquered the control of the mines of Anatolia. The tin of Atlantói came from the south-west of Iberian peninsula, and perhaps from Cornwalls. The net of their relationship trades could have been connected with the spread of the “megalithic cultures” in Europe and in the western Mediterranean.
According to the narration of Plato, Atlantói practiced agriculture, built cities, fused the metals (gold, copper and tin), knew writing. They practiced an expansionism extended until Tyrrenia (Latium and Tuscany), fought for 2000 years against Egypt and entered in conflict with paleo-Greek populations that lived on the coasts of the Aegean plain...
All that world would ended in the space of 24 hours, in a day of a year between 1235 and 1220 b.C.. A violent series of earthquakes seriously cracked the rocky dams that contained the waters of the upper Saharian sea and of the western Mediterranean. The upper waters caused gigantic waves of flood. Also calculating for defect the volume of the inner and upper sea, it would have contained at least 50,000 kilometers cubes of water (50 x 109 m3). The wave could have an equivalent energy of 17,5 x 1015 kgm = 17 x 1016 Joule.
The enormous cascade hit with a direct impact the island and the capital city of Atlantis, situated approximately 600 km before the natural dam.
Still today, if you watches with attention on a geographic map or on a satellitar photo, you can see, on the region of eastern Grand Erg, of the Gulf of Gabès and of the Small Sirte, the marks of this ancient catastrophe. The Gulf of Gabès appears as a “funnel” and it is not difficult to imagine the enormous water mass running throughout it.
The same earthquake series broke off other rock diaphragms: in the first place the one that delimited to north the great plain, ashore the western Mediterranean, that was also connected to the Oceans. The two Mediterranean seas were melted in a single sea and the history of Atlantis and its civilization definitively were submergeeed under some hundred meters of salt water. Aegean plain too was definitively submergeeed, and its mountains became islands. Salt water covered ancient ports, coastal cities and carried away agricultural lands...
The cataclysm appears complete if we imagine that the same series of earthquakes provoked the yielding of the diaphragm that it connected Italy to the Sicily, with the consequent opening of the strait of Messina. The sudden start of the current dug furrows deep. The harbours in the area of eastern Mediterranean were submerged.
Mud and currents turned hard to navigate in the Small Syrte and in the Channel of Sicily, as was reported by Plato and other classic authors (included the narrations of the myth of the Argonauts).
If what we have exposed is credible, Atlantis has never moved, it is not sinked in oceanic abyss. It has been upset by enormous waves, its ruins have been covered by tens of meters of mud and sand and then by some hundred meters of water.
The destruction of the economic and cultural center of Atlantis can appear connected to the “mysterious” interruption of the megalithic culture, in the area of the western Mediterranean: Iberian peninsula, Sardinia and Corsica and - we could add - until the British islands. An important pole of reference desappeared, a country of great navigators, who were used to trade with the western countries in order to import the tin, essential to fuse the bronze, and in exchange they exported Mediterranean obsidian and other products and foods.
It could be tried to find the different submerged coastal levels, correspondent to the progression of waters, from the moment of the catastrophe of Atlantis until the complete filling of the eastern Mediterranean sea to the oceanic level. An important confirmation, relative to ancient levels, could come from the search in depth of Crete of the ancient Minoic ports.

The end of the center of Atlantis caused various serious consequences, traces of which are the “mysteries” of those areas:

- The disappearance of the megalithes constructors, in all the area of the western Mediterranean. The local population had fallen back in a regimen of poverty and alimentary subsistence, than they did not be allowed to build great works.

- The successive occupations of the great islands (Sardinia and Corsica) from part of the sea-people made more and more to sink in the mystery the origins of that “people of the megalithes” that had preceded them.

- Perhaps a small group of survivors of the Tjehenu people conserved the memory of a part of ancient myths. Mythical Queen Tin Hinan, buried in the mountains of the Ahaggar, in the heart of the Sahara, can be a trace, at least in the permanence of the name, as the alphabet tifinagh, used in the most ancient Libyan-Berber languages.

A frequent objection has been: “if all this history was therefore obvious, why nobody has ever written before”. The answer is very simple: “It is just because someone has written it, that we can tell this history. Plato has written, and with great precision; and the same did some of the most important scholars of the Ancient World: Eudoxe of Cnyde, Dyodore of Sicily and other ancient authors, with a precision that would be enviable by many modern reporters...
We must be grateful to the attention of Plato if the report of Solon on Atlantis went on to us: a memory that could disappear, buried in the oblivion, like many other forgotten events in the course of the history of the mankind.

 
_____________________   
This is an abstract of the Italian book: Atlantide. Un mondo scomparso, un’ipotesi per ritrovarlo, ed. Liutprand, Pavia, 2001.
The author, Alberto Arecchi, is an italian architect, and lives in Pavia (Italy). He worked for some 15 years in different countries of Africa, operating from 1975 to 1989 as an expert of the international cooperation for the development.
Alberto Arecchi is the president of the cultural Association Liutprand. His main professional interests are: restoration of historical architectures, bio-architecture, constructions with appropriated technologies, city planning, projects for development with strong popular participation.
 
 
 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 12:02:44 pm
If this map is correct, this theory makes a lot of sense.  Especially when we think of the line whereby the priest tells Solon that "this is just a harbour" "that is the real sea"  or however he phrased it.  We know there WAS a large body of water inside the Atlas mountains, that drained out the bottom when the cataclysm took place. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 12:24:14 pm
Here also, is a theory regarding Sicily.  If this has been posted elsewhere, I apologize.  I haven't been keeping totally current with all the posts.

I like the idea that this fellow uses the word "transformed" instead of "translated".  It makes sense to me.

Pictures for this article here:
http://www.atlantis-scout.de/atlantis_sicily.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 12:37:04 pm
Sorry Bianca, I've just noticed the title under this one and it seems I've duplicated your information. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 16, 2008, 12:49:11 pm








QOAIS!!!



SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK, YOU HAVE BEEN MISSED - A LOT!!!


MdSungate has been asking about you.  He's on the verge of coming back too and he's looking
forward to having some GOOD interaction with you and the others - lots to catch up on (Tesla, etc)
See in MESSAGES!!

As to Sicily = Atlantis,

Our fellow member CICERO is going to Athens to present that theory.  That's the thread you are alluding to.  It is NOT MINE, I just added some stuff to it....

Hope you're going to stay a while, as your time permits.

Love and hugs,
b


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 12:54:22 pm
The following is a post from the first page of this thread that I made back in March of 2007.  I did try to work this area as a theory, but didn't work at it all that hard! but the idea of a location to launch an attack makes sense.

So - now that I've picked the story apart - and said "if" this and "if" that - I would like to put it back together again for the benefit of our purpose - to locate the city from which the Atlanteans attacked the Greeks.

- The people of a northern land were forced south by the ice age - Atlandis
- These people had knowledge of how to live in harmony with the planet (as well as knowledge of other things)
- These people of the Land of Ice - called by us Atlanteans - spread out over a vast area
- The Atlaneans built their cities to an original plan laid out in circles (rings) for specific reasons.
- Over millennia, they lost their "divine" side and became base and egotistic
- Some of their eventual lands included - The western coast of Libya, Libya, Spain, and Tyrrenia, parts of Europe and Asia
- They became a powerful force in this particular area and planned on taking over more of their neighbors
- The neighbors in particular were Greece and Egypt and Asia
- The leader of this power came from his "domain" outside the Straits(perhaps at one time part of Libya on the west or and island neighbor of the Amazons) and became the ruler of the Atlanteans
- This leader intended to subjugate the rest of the peoples of the Med. (being conceited enough to think he could do it all at once)Must have had a magnificent army! (or advanced weapons )
- To launch the attack on the eastern end of the Med all at once, I assume he has prepared his army (and possibly navy) for the attack from a point closest to the area he was attacking.  He's not going to leave a back door open for a rear assault.
- After the battle with the Greeks, and before the Greeks could return to barracks, the earth opened up and swallowed the army and the city.
- The sinking of the city caused the passage to the ocean and the western end of the Med. Sea. to be filled with mud.  (The ocean was navigable - meaning if you could get to it to navigate it but this was no longer an option for Eastern Meds. peoples therefore they couldn't navigate it)
- Therefore - the city in question had to be at Malta or Sicily.
- Since there are most unusual ruins in Malta, and they seem to stretch out where the Libyan land bridge used to be, it is reasonable to assume that Malta was the location of the particular city refered to in the Criteas.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 12:56:46 pm
Thanks for the hugs Bianca!  It's good to BE back.  Have been super busy, and to tell the truth, lost my concentration for a while.  Will try to stay tuned!


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on March 16, 2008, 04:07:10 pm
(http://blog.nanovic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/nano-flowers.jpg)
http://blog.nanovic.com.au/2006/11/23/nano-flowers/


Hi Qoais,

It's good to have you back!  ;D

M


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 04:59:07 pm
Thanks Mario
I see you've kept busy! :D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 16, 2008, 05:38:27 pm







Q,


Did you see this?




(http://www.the1phoenix.net/x-files/pix/mystero/Tirrenia.gif)

http://www.the1phoenix.net/x-files/pix/mystero/Tirrenia.gif




TRANSLATION:


According to Vittorio Castellani in the book
"When the sea submerged Europe"

This was the extent of Sicily a few thou-
sand years ago before the sea level rose
200meters.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 05:49:23 pm
Are you thinking then, that Sicily is too "small" to be Atlantis?  Not if only the city sank.

Again, open to interpretation in the mind of the reader.   

Atlantis was an "Island Empire" - is that what Plato said?  Losng my marbles here (memory also!

However, it could just mean as many have said, that the capital was on an island, like Victoria is to British Columbia today.  If Victoria sank, BC would still be here.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 16, 2008, 06:01:02 pm




I really don't know, Q.


I had not considered it before, until I started reading Cicero's theory.

Now, I am kind of considering it........makes a lot of sense.



Furthermore, Egerton Sykes (the foremost Atlantologist - EVER) died convinced that Atlantis
had colonies everywhere, which caused claims to so many different locations.




BTW

Alberto Arecchi's "Back To Atlantis" site:


http://www.liutprand.it/Atlantis.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 16, 2008, 06:05:54 pm
(http://www.atlantis-scout.de/atlantis_sic10_medblanco.JPG)

Sicily at the entrance to the western Mediterranean sea.



Timaeus 24e:


                           "The island was the way to other islands, and from these

                             you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent

                                            which surrounded the true ocean."



http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,7607.15.html#lastPost


CICERO'S THEORY


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Looking at that map and reading those lines, mmmm, pretty convincing....


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Bianca on March 16, 2008, 06:49:48 pm






I've also (in my "travels") come across maps depicting much more land between

Sicily and Sardinia when the sea levels were lower.......


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 16, 2008, 09:50:23 pm
Very early on in this thread, I theorized that the whole westrn end of the Med was once a vast plain.  Still makes sense to me now.  When Gibralter opened, and flooded the western end of the Med, it would have destroyed so much.  I've also gone on about just what areas exactly, Plato was referring to as he story jumps back and forth in time.  At one time, it was thought that Spain was an island.  Therefore, at the time this thought was prevalent, they couldn't have sailed out and around much, could they?  Again, we're back to time lines which I am horrible at. It's become all jumbled in my head, but I still think Atlantis was a "land" of water - contradiction in terms, so perhaps I should say, a domain of water - which Posideon ruled - him of the fish culture ;D ;D


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 17, 2008, 03:45:44 pm
Inasmuch as Plato jumped back and forth in the time lines, it would not surprise me to find that his description of Atlantis "was somewhere in time", but was not like that at all at the final time.  It had to have changed over the centuries with all that seismic activity going on, and likely they lost a lot of their land in these episodes.  Needing to replace it, they decided to attack other countries to do so.  People looking for this exact description won't find it.  How could they?  It's been changed over and over.  It's rediculous to think they're going to find a city with concentric rings around it after all that happened in the upheavals.

If we think about the territory Plato says the Atlanteans held, which was pretty much the western Med. (assuming the Pillars are at Sicily) then we would have Atlanteans in Spain also.  And Plato did say that they were attacking those on the "inside" of the pillars, therefore the Pillars had to already be inside the Med too.  Not at the outermost point.  I have no idea of the origins of peoples and where they travelled etc., but if Plato knew about England, where the tin came from, he would likely know about Ireland also.  At least would have heard the stories about the place.  Perhaps the Atlanteans did originate in Ireland alto I'm sure there are those that would point out that Plato said something about the sun going down in "west" on the land of Atlantis.  Ireland is not exactly west of the Med.

BTW Bianca, thanks for posting the link to Arrechi's site.  I forgot to go back and get it.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 18, 2008, 01:53:14 am
I've been playing with Cicero's map! (turns out it looks a lot like the second picture!)

Darn, it looks like Georges could be right ;D  Nikas too - and Cicero too.  I closed the straight so that Sicily is attached to Libya as a land bridge.  The other map shows what appears to be Lake Tritonis.  (or close to it anyway -where the Amazons started out from) called Mare Atlantico here.  When Plato says the Atlanteans had "control" of Libya, I doubt he meant the whole country.  I think he meant the coast line to the edge of Egypt which would make sense.  The Amazons attacked their neighbors, the Atlanteans first, then the nomads of Libya, then on to Egypt.  Lake Tritonis is actually closer to the Med, and the Amazons main city, Cherronesus (meaning peninsula) was ON a peninsula sticking out into the Med. (which sunk along with the pillars or stelae that Hercules put up there when he razed that city)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Territories.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/pre-med.jpg)


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 22, 2008, 12:14:29 pm
Those of you who were at AR will remember Flying Eagle and Eagle Wind who have their own web site depicting Atlantis in the Azov.

I have invited Eagle Wind to join AOL and hopefully, she will have time in her busy schedule to post here.  I've advised her that I'm posting some of her work in this thread, and if she does join, hopefully the admins. will transfer these posts to her thread:


This is her work:  http://www.atlantis-today.com/Tribes_World_Map.htm

A procession of boats sails across millennia of time, transporting a mysterious cargo of ancient knowledge;

Long ages of time before Ulysses, Odysseus, and the Argonauts, did an ancient pre-Egyptian mariner

launch an epic voyage; circumnavigating the world ... over 5,000 years ago?


(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Earth_Tribes_Map.jpg)

Compare a hi-res reproduction of the original Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 (painted mural), presented by Francesco Raffaele.

Tribes of the Earth world map?
by Mary Whispering Wind

The Tribes of the Earth world map is based on an ancient panorama known as Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 painted mural. The mural was discovered inside a tomb, in Hierakonpolis, in predynastic Egypt, circa 3,300 BC. The mural was copied by F.W. Green of Cambridge, and then published by the British School of Egyptian Archeology, between 1890 and 1910. The geographical locations and oceans were added by my transcended-partner, Flying Eagle and me in 2007.

The contours in the background design of the tomb 100 mural, display an overwhelming similarity to the outlines of a world map. Changing the darker background color to blue emphasizes the appearance of a map. If this mural really is a map; who charted it, and when was it charted, and why was it painted on the wall of Hierakonpolis Tomb 100? Let's solve these ancient mysteries, and discover the truth regarding the adventurous pre-Egyptian sailors, which actually may have charted the farthest boundaries of Mother-Gaia, and successfully navigated the great streams of Oceanus, over five thousand years ago.

Ancient Geography and Sea Levels
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Hierakonpolis_Greece_Map.jpg)

An abundant amount of ancient knowledge about earth changes, and the tribes of people, and the animals that lived over 5,000 years ago, may be gained from this map. The upper-left portion of the map shows an amazingly accurate knowledge of the ancient geography of Europe. There are also features of a bathymetry map. Mud flats, with shallows and channels, are depicted in the Mediterranean Sea.

The Mediterranean Sea is shown much shallower than is today, which is consistent with the modern theory of global sea level rise. However, evidence shows that the Mediterranean Sea began to flow into the Black Sea, through the Aegean Sea and the "clashing rocks" of Symplegades, in 5,600 BC. This may indicate that the map was created before 5,600 BC, and then copied onto the tomb wall from much older records. Perhaps, the map was created from ancient records scribed by the Atlanteans, before the great Atlantis flood, in 9,600 BC.

People, animals and sacred symbols

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Hierakonpolis_Lion_King.jpg)

The human figures, boats, animals and structures of the mural, are early pictographs that will develop into well known images, later in dynastic Egypt. The depiction of a mighty hero or king, holding two lions by the throat, is the first known depiction of this famous symbol, which would become a common symbol in Mesopotamia, six-hundred years later.

Located next to the Lion-King, there is a depiction of a circle with five stags surrounding it. The animal-wheel has been interpreted as a calendar, showing 5 seasons to the year, depicted by the five stags. Perhaps the calendar was used as a symbol for their culture, for example, as the Mayan calendar is often used today, as a symbol of the Mayan civilization. It might also represent a unification of five different tribes. Perhaps the circle marked a city, gathering place, or a great bazaar, where the tribes came together, five times a year to trade their animal skins, and other products.

The high-prowed boat of Egypt

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/HierakonpolisEgypt.jpg)

Prominently located, near the center of the mural is a high-prowed dark-boat, which stands out in contrast to the five white boats surrounding it. The high-prowed dark-boat is located in the geographical area of Egypt, according to our world map theory. Since the tomb is located in Egypt, it seems likely that the boat representing Egypt would have the central location and the most outstanding features. Therefore, we can imagine that the five white boats may represent other major nations of the world, at that time. Perhaps the dark-boat is actually symbolic of the Nile River, and honors the gods that preserve the flow of its life-giving waters.

Horses in America?

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Hierakonpolis_Horses.jpg)

It is surprising to see horses in South America, because horses are thought to have become extinct in both North and South America, about 10,000 BC, and were absent until reintroduced by the Spanish conquests. Whether or not these images are actually horses has been debated. I think that they look like horses, especially when comparing the horse images, with the nearby image of what looks, very much, like a donkey on a rope.

Links to archeological research and theories regarding Hierakonpolis and the painted Tomb 100 mural:

Hierakonpolis Online, Explore the City of the Hawk.

"Dynasties 00": The proto-states of Naqada IIC-IIIA2 period (c. 3500-3220 BC), PART II - EVIDENCE OF EARLY RULERS, by Francesco Raffaele, LATE PREDYNASTIC AND EARLY DYNASTIC EGYPT.
Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 (painted mural), presented by Francesco Raffaele.
"Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 (Painted Tomb) Hk loc. 33. Date: Naqada IIC (circa 3500BC).
Main bibliographic references for the Hierakonpolis painted tomb 100:
J.E. Quibell - F.W. Green, Hierakonpolis II (1902) 20f., pl 67, 75-79;
J. Vandier, Manuel I (1952), 561-571;
H. Case - J. Crowfoot-Payne, Tomb 100: the Decorated Tomb at Hierakonpolis, in: JEA 48 (1962), 5-18;
J. Crowfoot-Payne, Tomb 100: The Decorated Tomb at Hierakonpolis confirmed, in: JEA 59 (1973), 31-35;
B.J. Kemp, Photographs of the Decorated Tomb at Hierakonpolis, in: JEA 59 (1973), 36-43;
K.M. Cialowicz, La naissance du royaume (2001), 100f., 157-161."

Hierakonpolis, Early Egyptian Burial Customs, by Courtney Bouchie.

Nekhen, Greek Hierakonpolis, by Marie Parsons

Egyptian Monuments

Time-Boat in Egypt

THE WALL PAINTING NAQADA in EGYPT (Astronomy chart theory) by Andis Kaulins.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tribes of the Earth world map? Hypothesis by Flying Eagle and Whispering Wind, authors of the Atlantis Motherland book,
Maui Vortex, July 7, 2007, last updated by W Wind, March 17, 2008.




Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 22, 2008, 04:23:53 pm
Hierakonpolis Painted Tomb 100



http://xoomer.alice.it/francescoraf/hesyra/Hierakonpolis-tomb100.htm


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: 4th Horseman of the Apocalypse on March 22, 2008, 08:13:14 pm
Great graphics and maps, Qoais.  I am not certain about the Med a vast plain at one point, though.  Wasn't the time when the Med was dry hundreds of thousands, rather than mere thousands of years ago?


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 23, 2008, 01:49:29 am
OOwwwww!  Anyone that knows me knows I can't do time lines :'(

I do agree with you 4th Horseman, tho, on this particular time line.  But in my humble opinion, one has to go farther back to see how things developed.  If one is trying to place Atlantis in the Med. say, then one has to see how the Med. was formed and when.  Plato is going back and forth in time with his story, and sometimes it's hard to know if he is merely referring to something so far in the dim pst as to be almost beyond belief, but if one DOES believe, then one has to go farther back into the past also.

I don't totally trust the scientists to get the dates right either ;D

For some reason I just can't get what's in my head, out and on to "paper".

A lot of people don't believe in the Urantia Book, and I only reference it once in a while to help me along.  Now Plato is talking about the Atlanteans who, according to Diodorus Siculus, were as old as the earth itself.  At least I take it that way when he says that the "gods were born in the land of the Atlanteans".  Both Plato and Siculus say that the Atlanteans were peaceful, spiritual like folks at first.  That it took millenia for them to become base and greedy and war like. 

Now, I don't really KNOW when the western end of the Med. was a grassy plain but according to the Urantia Book, Gibralter opened approx. 34,000 to 37,000 years ago.  Since I have yet to find any information anywhere, contradicting just about anything the UB says, I just use this date loosely to give myself an idea of when this great devastation took place.  We DO know, according to scientists, that there was a land bridge at Sicily.  That land bridge was destroyed when Gibralter opened.  So if it's true that Atlantis was a large empire controlling the western Med, (including Spain and say Morocco and all islands out in the ocean maybe including Great Britain) when Gibralter opened, it would have raised merry hell with Atlantis.  It's possible that the royal city didn't go down when Gibralter opened, but sat on the edge of Sicily or Malta and later tectonic activity sunk it into the ocean.

Looking at Eagle Wind's work, I thought to myself again, about the arguments as to whether or not Plato said "as big as" or "between" Libya and Asia.
And again, as so often before, I wondered why the priest didn't mention his own country of Egypt in any of this story.  He's in Egypt talking to Solon, so why wouldn't he have said "between here (Egypt) and Asia"?  Unless in those days Egypt and Libya were more or less categorized as one.  But no, the story goes that the Atlanteans had "control of Libya to Egypt", so they are two different countries.  Looking at the mural, if Atlanis was in the Azov, it would be "between" Libya and Asia, but to me, it's still a wierd way to describe the location.  Therefore, I'm inclined to think Plato said "as large as" Libya and Asia. 

Also, Plato did mention something about the sun going down on the Atlantean land in the "west".  Or the lands of the gods, the blessed isles, etc. etc. etc.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Mario Dantas on March 23, 2008, 06:38:20 pm
(http://www.ife.uni-hannover.de/forschung/bilder/egg97.jpg)


Qoais,


I don't want to be misunderstood, but it seems that other things happened in that region.
Why would i bring this up? because maybe it is a way to get somewhere else.

We doubt the straightforwardness of Plato's dialog. There had to be such a place, but there isn't any, at least, where it is referenced by Critias, that is facing Spain.

I understand your view, and probably a great deal of Geological transformation in that Mediterranean region occurred, as you state, but the development of Life was different. As a "Cocoon" for many living creatures (Fauna and Flora), the Mediterranean held conditions for Life to keep going. Everywhere People were striving for survival (everybody was). The names of Places and Rivers as well as names of People that were perpetuated, as Critias states:

[...] For when there were any survivors, as I have already said, they were men who dwelt in the mountains; and they were ignorant of the art of writing, and had heard only the names of the chiefs of the land, but very little about their actions. The names they were willing enough to give to their children; but the virtues and the laws of their predecessors, they knew only by obscure traditions[...]




Why have we changed our minds regarding what is said in the story? Why should we "alter" its meanings as if Plato or Critias were incorrect in the very foundation of the tale? The descriptions given by Critias are very difficult to transmit. In that sense, we should question the accuracy of a Palace or a Channel or Dock, but never its "Big picture", the environment in which it was inserted, the "grandeur" of the Empire. 

It is obvious that Europe and the Mediterranean, in particular, were the places where most People first arrived. But their roots lie elsewhere, very likely with the Sea People? Where did they come from? From which Part of the Atlantic did they escape?

according to Studies made recently there is a connection between Earthquakes and the Geoid gravitational anomaly imprinted on the Spot, meaning that previous events of large quakes are also seen under geoid imagery. It seems that Europe's Atlantic Coast got "Squeezed" at some point.

regards

M





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 23, 2008, 08:48:29 pm
Hi Mario
I agree that the peoples had to originate someplace.  Also, somewhere in this forum, it MAY have been Nikas's thread, but maybe not, I read where we all assumed he meant Gades as in Cadiz, but there is a place in Libya called Gades. 

Personally, I've changed my mind a lot over the last two years, but I think also, that what I've contemplated makes a lot of sense. 

I think that the land of Atlantis was the whole world and that it originated millions of years ago, not just thousands or hundreds of thousands.


I think there were two species developing side by side at the same time, that eventually, when they evolved to a certain point, they cross bred.

I think Plato's story is a story of the world history from time immemmorial (only he doesn't know it himself and maybe the priest didn't either - altho maybe he did).  As I mentioned, Diodorus Siculus, in copying older works, mentions that the "gods" were born in Atlantis.  The "gods" have supposedly been here since the beginning of time.  If there were humans on the earth when it was still a pangea, and the pangea split, then the peoples would be separated and develop along different lines from each other.  Therefore, in my mind, there should still be 2 different DNA's somewhere on earth since there were 2 originating species.  Also, if life started in the centre or navel of the pangea, there should have been civilization on pretty much every large piece of land that exists. 

This is only MY theory Mario.  I don't have the inclination to look up all the scientific details regarding the development of the different colored nations and cultures, or who moved to which location, when - etc.  That is all very facinating of course and I do read that stuff, but don't study it in depth.  My curiosity is directed as to WHERE, or HOW, humans came into being in the first place.  If one doesn't believe in the God Creation theory, then one has to figure there is some other source for our existance.  Or - one can put the God theory together with evolution and say God created us thru his design for evolution. 

Plato says the circular canals were built around the original city, but that there were no boats as yet.  So how did Posideon get around his territory? How did they dig out these canals in the first place if this was a Bronze age civilization?  - see modification below -(Possible of course - but probable?) The thought process itself had to be quite sophisticated for someone in those times to figure out this design, in the first place, or else it was a NECESSITY of the design if Posideon was a water creature. Or was Posideon really a "god" - almost immortal - with knowledge that in the future, there would be boats? By the time boats were invented (I mean the large type boats like triremes) they did have better technology and somehow carved out parking garages for these large ships.  Amazing feats in my mind, even now with our machines, but to KNOW these things and be prepared for them boggles my mind.

I've no doubt that the coast line of Europe was squeezed.  The ice age could have had something to do with that as well as earthquake activity.

Modification to this post:

Re: Bronze Age Civilization - this determination is being made on Plato's story, (at the time of the ending of Atlantis) but the Atlanteans had to already BE in existance BEFORE the bronze age - to GET to the bronze age.  And maybe Plato is describing it this way, as it is what HE was familiar with, and not what actually WAS.  What "age" is Plato describing when Posideon first meets Cleito?  In what "age" does this "god" build a temple, a city, make hot and cold springs to come forth forth from the ground, and then engineer circular rings all around his "city"?  Plato says the "gods" divided up the world according to their own decision on who gets what (whoever or whatever these "gods" were) and proceeded to go about building things.  Who were these "gods" so far back at the beginning of the world that they already had the KNOWLEDGE to do these things?  This doesn't sound like a civilization that gradually built up.  These "gods" were all knowing and could manage feats like making springs pop up and then building baths from the springs.  So just where in time is all this story taking place?

From Wikipedia:

In Greek mythology, Poseidon (Greek: Ποσειδῶν; Latin: Neptūnus) was the god of the sea, as well as of horses and, as "Earth-Shaker," of earthquakes. The name of the sea-god Nethuns in Etruscan was adopted in Latin for Neptune in Roman mythology; both were sea gods analogous to Poseidon. Linear B graffiti show that Poseidon was venerated at Pylos and Thebes in pre-Olympian Bronze Age Greece, but he was integrated into the Olympian gods as the brother of Zeus and Hades. Poseidon has many children. There is a Homeric hymn to Poseidon, who was the protector of many Hellenic cities, though he lost the contest for Athens to Athena. Poseidon was given a trident during the war of the titans, and the gods. He fought alongside his siblings. The war lasted 10 years. After the war the gods divided the earth among themselves. Zeus took the sky, Poseidon took the sea, and Hades took the underworld. Although Poseidon unlike Hades had a throne on Mt. Olympus he liked to stay underwater in his palace with his queen Amphitrite.






Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 24, 2008, 01:12:05 am
Quoting Wikipedia again:

In Greek mythology, the Titanomachy, or War of the Titans (Greek: Τιτανομαχία), was the ten-year[1] series of battles fought between the two races of deities long before the existence of mankind: the Titans, fighting from Mount Othrys, and the Olympians, who would come to reign on Mount Olympus. This Titanomachia is also known as the Battle of the Titans, Battle of Gods, or just the Titan War.

The stage for this important battle was set after the youngest Titan, Cronus, overthrew his own father, Uranus (the Heaven itself and ruler of the cosmos), with the help of his mother, Gaia (the earth).

Uranus drew the enmity of Gaia when he imprisoned her children the Hecatonchires and Cyclopes in Tartarus. Gaia created a great sickle and gathered together Cronus and his brothers to persuade them to kill Uranus. Only Cronus was willing to do the deed, so Gaia gave him the sickle and placed him in ambush.

When Uranus met with Gaia, Cronus attacked Uranus with the sickle and cut off his genitals, and cast the severed member into the sea. From the blood that spilled out from Uranus and fell upon the earth, the Gigantes, Erinyes, and Meliae were produced. From the spume from his cut genitalia, Aphrodite rose from the sea.

Cronus took his father's throne after dispatching Uranus. He then secured his power by re-imprisoning his siblings the Hecatonchires and Cyclopes, and his (newly-created) siblings the Gigantes, in Tartarus.

Gaia, angry at Cronus for keeping his brothers in the same pit Uranus locked them in, made a prophecy that Cronus' own children would rebel against his rule just as he had done to his own father. For fear of his unborn children rising against him, Cronus now turned into the terrible king his father Uranus had been, swallowing each of his children whole as they were born from his sister-wife Rhea. Rhea, however, managed to hide her child Zeus, by tricking Cronus into swallowing a rock wrapped in a blanket instead.

Rhea brought Zeus to a cave in Crete, where he was raised to adulthood. Later, Metis gave Zeus a potion for Cronus which would cause him to vomit up his swallowed children. Zeus then led his released brothers and sisters in rebellion against the Titans.



Now the Olympians, led by Zeus, declared war against the previous generation of deities, the Titans. The Titans who fought were led by Cronus and included: Coeus, Crius, Hyperion, Iapetus, Atlas, Menoetius, the Gigantes, and Campe. The Olympians led by Zeus included: Hades, and Poseidon, assisted by the Hecatonchires (Hundred-handed ones) and Cyclopes, who had been imprisoned by Cronus. It is said the Hecatonchires helped the Olympians by hurling huge stones at the Titans—one hundred at a time. The Cyclopes helped by crafting Zeus' famous weapon, the thunderbolt. They also crafted Poseidon's trident and Hades' helmet of invisibility. Hestia, Demeter, and Hera also supported their brothers.



Having at last won victory after a full decade of war, the three Olympian brothers, according to a single passage in the Iliad drew lots to divide the spoils, granting dominion of the heavens and sky to Zeus, the sea to Poseidon, and the underworld to Hades. The Olympians then shut the defeated Titans within Tartarus, the deepest depths of the underworld. However, since during the war Oceanus and the Titanides (female Titans), Theia, Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, Phoebe, and Tethys, had remained neutral, they were not punished by Zeus. Some other Titans who were not imprisoned in Tartarus include: Atlas, Cronus, and Prometheus and Epimetheus. Zeus gave Atlas a different punishment. Old Uranus, the sky, nearly collapsed onto the earth after the war because so much fighting had occurred below. As a result, Zeus condemned Atlas to hold up the heavens and sky for eternity. In some accounts, Cronus manages to flee after the war, thereby avoiding imprisonment in Tartarus, but is killed by Zeus with a thunderbolt. The Hecatonchires remained to guard over the prisoners of Tartarus.

To me - this sounds very much like (I'm going to say a naughty word!) Sitchin's interpretation of the Sumerian texts. 

Uranus was "heaven itself and ruler of the cosmos".   - Now WHERE would our ancients get the idea that first of all - there's such a thing as the "cosmos", and then second of all, that "heaven" could fight with a "planet"? and that the heavens could "breed" with a planet? 

This sounds to me like a space battle.  Or a description of how the planets came into being or maybe both.  But WHERE would our ancients GET this story?  I mean - think about it.  Here scientists are telling us that we came from cave men or whatever, yet here's this myth that supposedly started BEFORE man existed.  If we developed from a monkey,  .......I don't think so.  This whole ancient "gods" business, and what they could do, is just too complicated for a monkey. ;D



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: EagleWind on March 24, 2008, 05:01:32 am
Aloha Qoais,

Thank you for your invitation to join the Atlantis Online forum.  I have surfed around and I see the forum contains a wealth of information. I must say that the ambiance is not exactly conducive to creative thinking. The theme is so very red and black, with warning and danger, etc. I think I will hesitate in opening a new thread for now. That being said…

With your kind permission, I would like to join the conversation you already have going on. Thank you for recently posting our Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 world map hypotheses on this thread. It is a fascinating study. If the mural does contain a five-thousand-three-hundred year old world map, it’s extraordinary, and certainly warrants further intense investigation. I am preparing some charts, comparing portions of the mural with bathymetry maps showing the lower sea level. I shall post when I upload them. I hope you will have the opportunity to review them.

Now, I’d like to briefly introduce the location of Atlantis in the Sea of Azov. I know that you, and our forum friends are quite familiar with Plato’s Atlantis dialogues (http://atlantis-today.com/Atlantis_Critias_Timaeus.htm) so I will not reference quotes today. I'm sure you will recognize the features I'm discussing:

The Sea of Azov was a vast fertile plain that sank, by tectonic action and became a sea in 9,600 BC, during the massive flooding at the end of the Younger Dryas ice age.:)  Before the great Atlantis flood (http://atlantis-today.com/Atlantis_Great_Atlantis_Flood.htm), the fertile plain was well watered and the landscape was perfect for canal building. The Saint Mountains to the north contain abundant streams, lakes and forests. To the south, precipitous cliffs line the shore. There is a hill, (http://www.atlantis-today.com) not very high on any side, located near the sea. To the south of the hill, a paleo-channel extends into the sea beneath Kerch Strait. The hill is now called Mithridat Hill, (http://atmo.info/Mithridat.htm) located in Kerch, Ukraine. From beneath the city of Kerch and surrounding area, world famous, hot and cold healing minerals springs flow abundantly.

Atlantis was a land of farmers and metallurgists. Ukraine is similarly, a land of farmers and metallurgists. Vast farmlands still surround the Sea of Azov. These fertile farmlands are criss-crossed by the most extensive canal system in the world. This area has been known as the breadbasket of Europe for two thousand years, harvesting vast amounts of grains and produce, twice a year. Ukraine supports huge metallurgic complexes, with massive slag piles. Similar to Atlantis, this area contains native deposits of all metals and fluxes, necessary to construct the metal wall coatings of Atlantis, including the rare commodity of Tin.

This brief overview contains quite an extraordinary amount of geographical, geological, tectonic, and hydraulic criteria to match with the description of Atlantis.

Now, in keeping with the flow of the thread, I’ll back up and talk generally about the flow of human history, as is my basic understanding. For about 200,000 years, Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals lived together and their separate cultures remained in about the same primitive state. Suddenly about 40,000 years ago, modern humans burst on the scene and their culture exploded with new inventions. Whether this rapid evolution was instigated by interbreeding, natural genetic mutation or extraterrestrial intervention is intensely debated. In our Atlantis Motherland book we present the gods as adventurous, amorous, androgynous aliens from the Sirius Star System (http://atlantis-motherland.com/home05.html)


Then, thirty thousand years ago, inhabitants on the Don River, near the Sea of Azov, were carving needles to sew their clothing, and building tee-pee cities, weaving fish nets, making jewelry and building animal traps. About 22,000 BC massive flooding devastated the landscape. About 20,000 BC, mammoth bone houses, surrounded by tee-pee villages spread across the land. Then at the end of the Younger Dryas ice age there was again massive flooding and a world-wide catastrophe. There occurred a massive die-off of species, especially large mammals, such as mammoths, saber tooth tigers, etc. We should expect that the human population also sustained massive losses. All this devastation corresponds with the date of the destruction of Atlantis in 9,600 BC.

Thanks again for your invitation to join the forum. I look forward to many stimulating discussions.

Live in Harmony. Enjoy life!
EagleWind


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 24, 2008, 01:12:17 pm
Welcome Aboard EagleWind.
I'm glad you decided to post here, even if you don't open a thread just yet.  It is quite a technological and "informational" forum, but we do chat with each other as well :D

You are most welcome to join the conversation, and I'm sure we'll have some wonderful discussions.  I find the Hierakonpolis Tomb 100 mural most facinating. Your theory that it's a map is most ingenious and totally logical.  Logic is one of my favorite things.  Scientific facts aside, logic can get one to their goal quicker!!!!!! (That's my theory!)

I've visited your web site many times and appreciate the "fun" stuff as well as the scientific.  It makes sense to me that we were "seeded" from somewhere else, otherwise, where did all our belief in "gods" come from?  Beliefs in a higher power, and stories of these "gods" actually living on the earth?  If we weren't "taught" towards these beliefs, I believe we would still venerate the sun, have a deep seated conviction in our own being and would have possibly developed with a deeper respect for EACH OTHER AS EQUAL and spend our time working for the betterment of all.

I don't know if I'm expressing this very well.  They say the "gods" faught with each other before we existed.  Then it seems, they taught US how fight each other and we've been doing it ever since.  If these "gods" had not interfered, perhaps Neanderthals would have gone on with their ideas of "community living" or "tribes" and when the tribes got too big, they divided and some moved on and established another tribe.  They lived in tribes for protection, to share the work load, etc.  THAT initial way of thinking perhaps would have continued on rather than the way of warring with each other.  Neanderthals didn't know what a "god" was let alone worry about such a thing, and had enough on their plate just trying to survive.  This caused them to unite and stay united.  It's possible they may have developed territorial disputes, but since they all had one common goal, to stay alive, they possibly would have done negotiaiting instead of warring with each other.  So who were these "gods" that taught us we were less than they were, taught us to fight each other, and destroy our own planet?

Quote
Suddenly about 40,000 years ago, modern humans burst on the scene and their culture exploded with new inventions.

Yes, I've read this exact sentence before, in scientific papers.  This is not logical thru genetic mutation (which equals cross breeding to me) which, according to scientists in my day, took thousands of years to happen.  Not SUDDENLY.  I know "suddenly" doesn't mean overnight to scientists, but still, in scientific terms of evolution "suddenly" doesn't cut it.

Let me give an example of what I'm trying to show in a logical line of thought:

Humans are mimikers.  When we are born we can't talk, but gradually, our parents make sounds that we copy and eventually, we come to understand what these sounds mean.  According to scientists, early man could not speak.  "Suddenly", they could, but WHO taught them to speak a language that they could understand each other?  Early man would hear the sounds of birds and animals and he would have come to learn what these sounds mean.  He would have copied these sounds and without interferance, would have continued to develop a communication system built on the sounds he heard around him.  We would still be talking in chirps and growls to this day.  BUT, we don't.





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 24, 2008, 01:38:38 pm
Continuing in that vien, if early men all copied the sounds of the birds and animals, we would all be talking the same language. 

Going back a bit, to the war of the "gods", this war was seemingly between "two races" of "gods".  These "gods" supposedly bred with the indiginous peoples of earth, and therefore, again I say, there should be 2 different DNA's out there.  AND if Sitchin's theory is correct, and the Anunnaki toyed with our DNA, again it indicates there should be 2 DNA's.  However, if man EVOLVED by himself on this planet, there should only be one DNA.  (I'm probably going to get flack about that statement from the techies but that's ok).  I do have a hard time with the dating of things because scientists are continually changing the dates of certain "evolutions" and pushing the time lines farther and farther back. 

Quote
For about 200,000 years, Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals lived together and their separate cultures remained in about the same primitive state. Suddenly about 40,000 years ago, modern humans burst on the scene and their culture exploded with new inventions. Whether this rapid evolution was instigated by interbreeding, natural genetic mutation or extraterrestrial intervention is intensely debated.  Then, thirty thousand years ago, inhabitants on the Don River, near the Sea of Azov, were carving needles to sew their clothing, and building tee-pee cities, weaving fish nets, making jewelry and building animal traps. About 22,000 BC massive flooding devastated the landscape. About 20,000 BC, mammoth bone houses, surrounded by tee-pee villages spread across the land. Then at the end of the Younger Dryas ice age there was again massive flooding and a world-wide catastrophe. There occurred a massive die-off of species, especially large mammals, such as mammoths, saber tooth tigers, etc. We should expect that the human population also sustained massive losses. All this devastation corresponds with the date of the destruction of Atlantis in 9,600 BC.

Thanks for posting this EagleWind.  It helps me with the timeline as it is believed to exist now.  I'm sure it will change again when scientists discover something else!  Scientists say that suddenly about 40,000 years ago, after 200,000 years, modern humans burst on the scene.  Kind of a contradiction in theory for scientists if you ask me.  Can they explain away this sudden change with THEIR theories?  Prove it in other words, that this happened spontaneously and not without outside intervention.

Going back to neanderthals copying the sounds they heard, I've seen a number of documentaries where human children have been either raised with animals or left in close accompnyment with animals, and they copy the behavior of said animal.  The other day on the news, there was an article about a woman who had a child, and also had an aviary.  She left the child in the aviary and admitted that she treated the child like a bird.  The child cannot talk as a human, but makes the sounds of the birds, and when it gets upset, flaps it's arms like wings.  There are many recorded instances of human children being raised with/by animals, and they copy that animal.  Therefore, I maintain that when humans found they could flap their jaws, they flapped them in mimicry of what they heard all around them, and that from these sounds, our language would have developed.  True, the language would still be somewhat different depending on what animals were indiginous to the area, but to communicate in animal language, again mimicy would be the key, because everyone would know the "behavior" of animals in given conditions and could mimic this behavior to express themselves.  Most animals growl or snarl when they're angry for instance.  Easy enough to recognize this behavior for what it is.  Etc. Etc.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on March 26, 2008, 11:42:43 pm
I've just finsihed reading a fabulous book called Initiation, by Elizabeth Haich.  I can't remember who recommended it, but I sincerely thank whoever it was. 

It has to do with spiritual enlightenment, and the author's travels thru a number of incarnations, and then goes into great detail about her life when she lived in ancent Egypt and trained as an initiate.  It's extremely well written.

In this book, altho not mentioned by name as Atlanteans, she talks about the original peoples of this earth that were highly spiritual and had knowledge of the energies of the all the earth and cosmos, and knew how to direct thiese energies for their own use, much like we would use a hammer and saw today.  In the course of time, they somehow used these energies wrongly or maybe on purpose , and "de-materilaized" their homeland.  the descendants of this race became the elongated-skull people of ancient Egypt, who were also very spritual and initiated into the knowledge of spiritual enlightenement. (Some - as we know now, were Pharoah's and of the "royal" line).

The last of these "enlightened" initiaites was he who led the people out of Egypt and took the Ark of the covenant with him.  It does explain somewhat how the ark worked, but I won't spoil it for you!

It also explains about the harnessed use of energies that were used  not to "defy" gravity so as to lift things up in the air, but to make "material" objects either heavier than, or lighter than the force of gravity.  (As in lifting the blocks for the pyramids)  To sink a well, a suitable size boulder was chosen, and the energies were applied that made the rock heavier than gravity and it sunk into the earth.  No physical digging necessary.

This book is an autobiography and not fiction. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on April 03, 2008, 01:47:44 pm
Quoting Wikipedia again:

In Greek mythology, the Titanomachy, or War of the Titans (Greek: Τιτανομαχία),
Titanomachia is also known as the Battle of the Titans, Battle of Gods, or just the Titan War.

Cronus took his father's throne after dispatching Uranus.his siblings the Hecatonchires and Cyclopes,
 and his (newly-created) siblings the Gigantes, in Tartarus.

, swallowing each of his children whole as they were born from his sister-wife Rhea. Rhea, however, managed to hide her child Zeus, by tricking Cronus into swallowing a rock wrapped in a blanket instead.

granting dominion of the heavens and sky to Zeus, the sea to Poseidon,
and the underworld to Hades. The Olympians then shut the defeated Titans within Tartarus,
Atlas, Cronus, and Prometheus and Epimetheus.
, Zeus condemned Atlas to hold up the heavens and sky for eternity.
To me - this sounds very much like (I'm going to say a naughty word!) Sitchin's interpretation of the Sumerian texts. 


Dear. . . . QOAIS,


FAIRY  TALES  or  STARRY  TALES  ?  ?

The proof is in eating the Pudding says the old Proverb: About eating:
In The MOTHER  GOOSE Tales the Mother Goat(=planet  Saturn.) tries
to stop the WOLF(= Mars.) from eating her Children, Yet all 11 were eaten
only one hid in the grand Fathers's Clock and survived

( Mr. Wolf should've eaten the Basket not the Hood! )
 Little Red ridinghood (= planet Venus.)was eaten by the space Wolf(= Mars.)
in his guise as Grandma(= Moon.)but the Hunter(- Mercury)
 got her and grandma(= Moon.) out of there !
Afterwards the thirsty Wolf (= mars.)sunk in the well,
 by by the stones in his stomach !


SCHNEEwittchen und die Sieben Zwergen uber den Sieben Bergen. . .
Sometimes planets are even " eating out " !
in SNOWHITE and the seven (!) " DWARFS ",
Snowwhite enters the House of the Seventh( Hour ?)
and she drinks from the tiny gobletts(= globes.)
and she eats   from the tiny plates(= dust-rings.)
and she sleeps in the . . tiny beds(= Orbit-tracks)


this is the same story of Cronos eating Stones for humans
or Planet Venus  flying through the Hydro-Atmospheres of the visible Planets!
where she also cleans up the Planet's formerly shiny Dustrings!


The Mother Goose Stories are not european heritage because
 they are not european Fairytales, because, they originate NOT from France nor Europe
But they were brought in at Paris by the refugy bishop of Pondicherry in 1688
in 1695 Charles Perrault translated them from Sanscrit into French.


Before 1695, the stand-up Comedian Chroucho Marks could not have entered the sentence:
" Don't you know your Mother Goose Stories ?"! Every Kid should know them !
In germany the Grimm Brothers translated the Perrault Mother Goose Stories in 1830,
in a book erroneously titled:" ancient German House-Marchen."
( as if they were known in Europe for the past 2.000 years! )


The Pantja- Chantra was probably written in 1000 bc but
was damned by Planet-fobic Censors, in 855 bc
 so the publishers had to rework the script from Planetary behaviour
 to animal behaviour in order to save the narative from further idiotic public CENSORS !


 ;D LOKA-  PALAS  ;D are the 4 Elephants that blow ( Nightly Candle-)stories out
Also the White Elephant was an avatar of the MOON
 and he too was censored by extinction
and the 1.000 " PILLARS"= white Elephants of Ad-Irem
were cut their heads off by the superstitious King Salmanasser-3
 ( later known as the Indian Elephanthead-Basher " SHIVA "
( Greek:" Geriones " .)who was disturbed by flying Elephants
when he was besieging the capital of Atlantis(= Ad-Land.) namely Ras- Aden.

   
Dancing Shiva Nataraya a war-mad king called Salmanasser
The King damned the White Elephants because he thought
 that they were making Earth Quakes by stamping and trumpeting
like Stentors and Tritons when in reality ( unknown to the wicked king.)
these brave, well trained Elephants were warning for an uncoming tsunami
in SouthArabia which was a regular phenomenon when the MOON was yearly once


Moon  Mars Conjunctions cause(d) once Giant Tsunamies
causing Nations to move to foreign Lands
in Conjunction with Mars and thus pulling the Red Sea waters over the Cape of Aden.
The Famous " War of the Gods" ( thus the Titano-machia/ Giganto-machia
in 1055 & 855 bc also happened twice as with Uranos & Cronos Planetary-Stories which,
were even recorded as Children's Fairytales ;D


Sincerely.

 :'(  " BlueHue  "  :'(   dd April-3,  2008



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 03, 2008, 08:24:24 pm
Hi Blue Hue
Who's theory is this, that the fairy tales, are starry tales?
You're saying these stories are from an earlier time? 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: BlueHue on April 10, 2008, 02:07:48 pm
DEAR......QOAIS,


The Indian Fairytale book " PANTjA CHANTRA" ( I am not sure of the Spelling )
 Greek:" Songs from PUNT", or the Tales about the FAIRYLAND OF Punt",
Came from Pondicherry ( opposite Madras in East-India.)
to Paris and was adapted for Children by Charles Perrault
 Published in 1695 under the name " Mother GOOSE Tales or
 Contes de Fee de Ma Mere l''Oie ".


They were brand new then and this proves that altough the Mothetr Goose Storybook
 may be 3.000 years old, it fairy contens, was unknown in Europe until Perrault & Grimm
translated them, so the European Fairytales are a fake tradition from " Modern times"
( just like Santa Clause was invented by the Cocacola Advertisment  Dept.Ad'
since from 1935 !)


Fairytale litterature reseachers have determined that the Pantja Chantra Epic book
describes the Heaven Planets as a forest with animals. And the Celestial disasters
were under a taboe so the Astronomers had tro publisgh their ancient Star/ constekllation SURVEYS
in a childish manner to circumvent the Censor authority !


Sorry for this delay in reply!  :P
 Sincerely " BlueHue" dd April 10 2008


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 07:26:59 pm
Ok Bluehue, what does this mean to us regarding Atlantis then?  And why would stories of the history of the planets be censored?  What you're saying is that the story of the war between Athens and Atlantis was an allegory for the myth of the creation of the universe?

This is the theory of Alan Alford, as stated in his book The Atlantis Secret.

Actually, I find the man makes a lot of sense.  If one looks at the story as an allegory for the creation of the universe, which the Greeks accepted as absolutely true, then Plato was telling the "truth". 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 08:47:36 pm
There are a lot of theories about the location of Atlantis out there, and I know it's been said many times, many ways, that one has to understand Plato, to understand what he was talking about.  We have all tried to fit Atlantis into our favorite location, but somehow we can never get ALL the merits of the story, to fit any one location.  Always, we have to kind of fudge a bit, and say maybe Plato meant this, and maybe he meant that.  Maybe, he meant exactly what he said, but we don't understand it.  Or we don't WANT to understand it because there wouldn't be any fun in it anymore.

Alan Alford does make sense, when he says that the story is an allegory for the creation of the universe. 
He also explains that the puzzle of Atlantis is, that on one hand, Plato was adamant that the island had sunk in the Atlantic Ocean, and equally adamant that the story was absolutely true.  On the other hand, modern scientists have mapped the floor of the Atlantic Ocean with modern technology, and found no trace of any sunken island. 

Alford's theory is that the story was an allegory for the myth of the creation of the Universe.  An encrypted account of a secret tradition which had been preserved for milennia by the mystery schools of Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Greece.  In this way, Plato's story of Atlantis may be seen as a "true story", as the ancient sages believed that the myth of creation was an absolutely true account of how the universe had been brought into being.



Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 09:53:04 pm
Since I like Alford's logical approach to this conundrum, I thought I would post some of his reasoning for his theory:  (If this has already been posted somewhere else, I apologize)
Quote
Problems with the Popular Conception of Atlantis

Problem 1:  Plato

As much as Atlantis-hunters would wish plato to have been a historian in the mould of Herodotus or Thucydides, he was not.  And nor was he a geographer in the mould of, say, Hecataeus.  On the contrary, Plato was a philosopher and a part-time mythologist.  Moreover, he was not even an ordinary philosopher,  rather, he was a 'true philosopher", whose interests lay primarily in metaphysical, otherworldly matters.  Therefore, if there is any truth behind Plato's account of Atlantis, it is unlikely to have anything to do with history or geography; rather, it should be rooted in myth, mysticism, esotericism and the metaphysical world.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 10:05:50 pm
...continuing

Problem 2:  Herodotus

It is highly significant that Herodotus, the so-called "father of history", said nothing at all about any war between Athens and Atlantis.  writing almost a century before Plato, Herodotus was widely travelled (he had visited Egypt where the Atlantis story supposedly came from) and was  very knowledgeable about military history.  But as far as he was concedrned, the greatest wars of history had been those between Greeks and Persians, notably the battle of Marathon (490 BC), the battles of Thermopylae and Salamis (480 BC), and the battle of Plataea (479 BC).  Moreover, in regard to the battle of Plataea, Herodotus tells a highly revealing story of a bragging contest between the Athenians and the tegeans in which each side listd their greatest military accomplishments.  Here, the Athenians recited their heroism at the battle of Marathon, but spoke also of the achievements in "ancient times" - their intervention in the war of "the Seven against Thebes", their repulsion of the Amazonians who had invaded Attica, and their instrumental role in the Trojan War.  But as for the idea that their ancestors had repulsed the invasion of Atlantis, the Athenian soldiers said nothing at all - a very strange omission of Plato's account contained any historical truth.

Plato's story is also called into question by several other statements made by Herodotus.  the greatest danger ever faced by the Athenians, he said, was when the Persian army had invaded Attica and instigated the battle of Marathon (490 BC).  The biggest armed force ever assembled, he said, was that of the Persian king Xerxes (480 BC).  The bigest island in the whole world, he said, was Sardinia.  And the earliest sea empire in the Mediterranean, he said, had been forged by King Minos of Knossos.  All of these claims fly in the face of Plato's claim, nearly a century later, that Atlantis had been the biggest island in the world and had assembled the largest army ever, to forge the first sea empire of the Mediterranean.

Thus spoke the historian Herodotus who, had he lived a century later, would hve been highly sceptical of the historicity of Plato's story.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 10:10:12 pm
....continuing

Problem 3:  Socrates

Socrates was one of the greatest intellectuals of his day, and yet when Critias introduced the story of Athens' heroic victory over Atlantis, he responded by saying: "Tell me though, what was that ancient deed our city performed...?  I've never heard of it."  If the athenian victory had been magnificent in a historical sense, or even in an orthodox mythical sense (as in their involvement in the Trojan War or the earlier epic battle "the Seven against Thebes"), then Socrates certainly would have heard of it.  QED.  We must be dealing here with a myth and, moreover, with a new myth - perhaps a  variation on a theme.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 10:38:41 pm
...continuing

Problem 4:  The Saite Calendar

That a cataclysm could have instigated the beginning of a calendar nine thousand years before the time of Solon (c. 9600 BC) is not implausible.  Nor is it implausible that such a calendar could have been preserved for nine thousand years and handed down for posterity via the egyptian Saites (compare the Hebrew calendar which is today nearly six thousand years old).  It is therefore possible that Solon (or perhaps Plato himself), learned the date of the Atlantis cataclysm from the Egyptian priests at the town of Sais.  But the important question is this:  is it really likely that the date of the cataclysm originated in this way?

In fact, everything we know about ancient Egypt argues against the possibility.  Archaeologists have found no evidence at all for a calendar of this ilk.  Nor is there any such evidence in the Egyptian texts, which generally refer to ancient events in the vaguest of terms.  Moreover, even when we do find numbers in these texts, they usually turn out to be sacred, symbolic or rounded, the latter suggesting some imaginative ex-post rationalisation by the priests.  To presume, as some researchers do, that the Saites possessed a calendar dating back nine thousand years (to a time one thousand years earlier than the foundation of their own state) is to go far beyond what can be justified.

There is more.  Why is it that the Saite tradition preserved only the date of the Atlantis cataclysm?  After all, Plato had the Egyptian priest claim that several cataclysms had occurred after the sinking of Atlantis, including the famous flood of eucalion.  and yet nowhere in Egypt, nor in Plato, nor anywhere else in the Greek writings, do we find any record of the dates of these subsequent cataclysms.  If Solon (or Plato) really did receive the date of the Atlantis cataclysm from the Egyptian priests, why did he not also receive the dates of the other, more recent events?

my note - maybe other dates and disasters WERE spoken of, but Plato was only referencing THIS one to use in his story.

There is another problem, too.  Why is it that only the Egyptian Saites preserved the date of the Atlantis cataclysm?  If the event was historical and as dramatic as Plato suggests, then it would have affected much of the world and would have been rcorded in other ancient traditions.  But, despite the prevalence of worldwide flood myths, no record has ever been found pointing to the date 9600 BC.

In summary, it is a leap of faith to suppose that the Egyptian saites had access to the purported date when no-one else in the world did; it is a further leap of faith to suppose that the Egyptian records were entirely destroyed (from an archaeological perspective); it is a further leap of faith to suppose that Solon had access to these records when no-one else did; and it is a leap of faith, too, to suppose that Solon's testimony fell into the hands of Plato and no-one else.  To go with all these suppositions is to hop, skip and jump into the land of improbability.  And there still remains the awkward problem of explaining how Plato (or the egyptians, if one prefers) knew the date of the atlantis cataclysm but not the dates of the three, more recent cataclysms that followed it, including the well-known flood of Deucalion.

A more likely explanation for the date of the war is that Plato was speaking idiomatically and that "nine thousand years ago" signified "nine aeons ago", i.e. an infinitely long time ago. 


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 11:05:04 pm
...continuing

Problem 5:  Lost Civilisations

The implication of the historicist argument is that two highly advanced civilizations - Atlantis and Athens respectively - existed c. 9600 BC, and yet, according to archaeologists, civilization began much more recently, c. 4000 BC (in the lands of ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia).  How, then, could the two fantastic civilizations described by Plato have existed more than five thousand years earlier, during what archaeologists call "the neolithic period"?  The idea is controversial to say the least.

(my note - I don't necessarily believe in these dates for the beginning of our existance but he does have a point that so far, we haven't found evidence of an "advanced" civilization that far back)

As regards Atlantis, Plato placed the former island in the Atlantic Ocean.  On this point, his language is unequivocal.  atlantis had been in the great Ocean, in the atlantis O cean, in the realm of Atlas, opposite the Pillars of Heracles (the straits of gibraltar) and, fully consistent with this, the Atlantians had directed their histilities against Europe and Asia.  to look for Atlantis anywhere else but the Atlantic Ocean is to totally ignore what Plato actually wrote.  Unfortunately for Atlantis-hunters, this leads to a fundamental problem, namely that scientists have nowadays mapped the floor of the atlantic Ocean, in outlilne, using echo sounders, "Geosta" radar and multibeam sonar, without discovering any trace of the sunken island or continent as described by Plato.  the historicist interpretation of Plato's Atlantis is thus stringly contradicted by scientific evidence.

Moreover, there is equally strong evidence against the idea of a 10th millennium BC civilization in Athens in Greece.  The earliest temples in Athens, for example, have been dated archaeologically to only the 8th century BC; below their foundations there is only virgin soil.

On the face of it, then, as we enter the 21st centruy AD, the notion of two highly advanced civilizations fighting a worldwide war c. 9600 BC would seem to be a complete fantasy.

Rather, the date of "nine thousand years ago" is surely idiomatic for "an infinitely long time ago", as suggested earlier.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 11:16:48 pm
...continuing

Moving the Goal Posts

The reaction of atlantis-hunters to the non-discovery of Atlantis on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean has been to suggest that the story was garbled at some point or else expressed in poetic terms, thus causing Plato to cite an incorrect geography.  this assumption means that the lost island can be moved from the Atlantic to any other alternative location, preferably one that has not been mapped by sonar!  The problem with this approach is that, oce one presumes Plato to have made one mistake (with the location), it becomes tempting to take a little lecence with the text, and then some more licence still, and thus the situation arises where Atlantis-hunters produce "solutions" that owe little to what Plato actually said.

What we should be lookin for is an island of circular shape, larter than Libya and Asia Minor combined (!), fringed by mountains, with a rectangular plain and a six-ringed, circular city within.  But what we get is the mountains alone, or the plain alone - and always of the wrong dimensions - with the other features conveniently ignored.  At the extreme, some researchers have even staked their reputations on islands that have not yet sunk.  (my note - I wonder if he's referring to Sarmast?)  To which one must retort that if an island isn't sunk, then it ain't Plato's Atlantis.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 11:21:17 pm
...continuing - with the theory of Allan Alford...

The Creation Myth Theory

My theory rejects the historical interpretation of Plato's story and suggests instead that the Atlantis story - or rather the story of the war between Ancient Athens and Atlantis - was 'true' in a mythical sense in that it allegorised the creation of the Universe.  the validity of my theory stems from the ancient axiom that the myth of creation was a true story.

The four keys to my theory are as follows:

     1 Atlantis was a metaphor for the primeval underworld (the interior of the earth).

     2 The invasion of the known world by Atlantis allegorised the eruption of the underworld.  (Note:  this is a key aspect of the creation myth).

     3 Ancient Athens, which represented the ideal, or archetypal, city, first existed in the sky in the form of a celestial body, i.e. a metaphorical city.  (Note: the lowering of cities from the heavens to the Earth is a feature of Mesopotamian and Hindu mythology.)

     4 The defeat of Atlantis by ancient Athens allegorised the fall of the sky and the war between Heaven and Earth.  (Note: this is another key aspect of the creation myth, and parallels Hesiod's tale of the cataclysmic battle between the gods and the Titans.)





Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 11:38:29 pm
...continuing

The Merits of the Creation Myth Theory

1  The theory accords with the most important facts of Plato's story.  By identifying atlantis with the underworld, it allows Atlantis to be in the Atlantic Ocean (which symbiolised the subterranean sea); it allows Atlantis to be sunk; and it allows Atlantis to be larger than two continents. These are fundamental points, and yet all other Atlantis theories reject the legitimac of either one, two, or all three, of these statements and suppose, instead, that Plato somehow, like an idiot, got things cockeyed.

2  The theory decodes Atlantis in the context of it's invasion of the world and ensuing war with ancient Athens.  The worst thing a researcher can do is to study either one of these cities in isolation from the context of the war.  My theory, however, makes the inter-relationship between Athens and atlantis a fundamental basis of the interpretation.

3  The theory accounts for all of the bizarre elements in Plato's story.  It explains how the six-ringed city of Atlantis came out of Clito's primeval hill.  It explains why the island was a perfect circle (code for sphere).  It explains the unknown metal oreichalkos (meteoritic iron).  It explains how the island was transformed into a shallow sea of mud.  It xplains why the Athenian army sank suddenly into the earth.  and it even explains the opposite continent which, bizarrely, was said to completely surround the true Ocean.

4  The theory is able to resolve a crucial percieved anomaly in Plato's text.  By proposing that Athens descended from Heaven against Atlantis, it verifies Plato's statement that the war between the two sides coincided with the foundation of Athens in the Earth 'nine thousand years ago', and it thus exonerates Plato from the accusation that he made a careless chronological error.  The supposed error, in fact, turns out to be a linchpin to understanding the story.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 10, 2008, 11:51:55 pm
...continuing - The Merits of the Creation Myth Theory

5  The theory improves substantially, the reading of the story.  By proposing that the Athenian army descended from Heaven, it explains why the warriors sank, all at once, beneath the earth.  The Athenians, far from suffering a tragic accident some time after the war (as the badly mistranslated text suggests), rather died a heroic death at the climactic moment of the war.  This, surely, was Plato's intention, given that the story was told, ostensbily, to depict Socrates' ideal state in action ("I'd love to see our city distinguish itself in the way it goes to war and in the way it pursues the war...").

6  The theory vindicates plato's claim that the story of the war was absolutely true.  By proposing that the story was a retelling of the creation myth (the war between Heaven and Earth variant,) it allows that the story be true in the mythical sense.

7  The theory takes into account the wider aspects of Platonic philosophy.  It must be emphasised (no doubt to the great disappointment of many Atlantis-hunters) that Plato was no historian or geographer, and thus we are hardly likely to find an account of a lost civilization at the heart of his works.  On the contrary, both Plato and Socrates were'true philosophers', who were obsessed with cosmogony and the theory of the soul.  In their way of thinking, something important had indeed been lost, but it belonged to myth rather than to history, and to Heaven rather than to Earth.  Here, the Theory of Forms is the key, for it presupposes a fall of the archetypes from Heaven to Earth, including, most significantly, the archetype of the ideal state, which was, after all, the subject of Plato's sotry.  By proposing that Ancient Athens (and earlier atlantis) had fallen from Heaven to Earth (into the underworld), my theory cuts to the very heart of Platonic philosophy.

8  The theory sets Plato's story of Athens and Atlantis against the broader context of ancient Greek myths, and the older Near Eastern myths from which the Greek ones were largely derived.  In these myths, important parallels are found for ideas such as: the birth of the Universe in a cataclysm; the fall of the sky; the fall of the golden age; the wars of the gods of Heaven and the underwold, the fall of gods, islands and continents from Heaven into the underworld or subterranean sea; the birth of all things from the Earth or subterranean sea (impregnated by the seed of Heaven); and the idea that mythical peoples dwelt in Heaven, the Earth and the underwold.  Most importantly, these creation myths enshrine the principle of personification, with the poets using human-like gods or heroes to personify the falling sky and the erupting underworld.  My interpretation of Plato's story thus has it's roots in a well-documented, three-thousand-year-old literary tradition.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: Qoais on April 11, 2008, 12:04:08 am
...continuing

Summary

In summary, I would remind the reader that there is no archaeological evidence for the historicity of the war between Athens and Atlantis (quite the opposite); that there is no evidence whatsoever for a sunken island-continent on the Atlantic Ocean floor; that Herodotus and socrates had never heard of the Athens-Atlantis war; that Plato did insist on the poetic (i.e. mythical) nature of solon's story by comparing Solon to the great poets Homer and Hesiod; that Plato did place the war in a pre-diluvian era (predating the creation of mankind!); and that Plato was not a historian, nor a geographer, but a true philosopher, whose interests lay primarily in metaphysics, myths and mysticism.

It therefore makes sense that Atlantis signified the 'true myth' of the creation of the Universe, encapsulating ideas such as the antediluvian paradise lost, the fall of the sky, the mystery of the underworld, and the mystery of the soul, or spirit, that had brought everything to life.

Thus Atlantis becoms a symbol for a spiritual quest - the quest for knowledge of the origins of the Universe, the quest for knowledge of the origins of life, and the quest for knowledge of what life truly is.

Alas!  To search for Atlantis here on Earth, in the form of a lost civilization, is the veritable antithesis of Plato's philosophy.  The great man would be grieved indeed to witness such materialistic folly.


..the end of Allan Alford's theory.


Title: Re: Plato's Atlantis My Theory
Post by: DDDnD3D on April 12, 2008, 03:23:38 am
*** good stuff Qoais. . . its very interesting to me since Alan Alford and myself had a bit of a correspondence back in 2001 around the time of 911. We had discussed the possibility of an ancient Spaceport existing in the Sinai as had been suggested by Sitchen to have been built there by the Annunaki. My research had pretty much confirmed it to be true. Alford had also believed it to be true and then suddenly changed his mind and said "very abruptly"there was no Spaceport ! It was strange to me that he had made such a dramatic change of opinion? It was almost like he had been scared off? OR  he was privy to information and was trying to scare me off?       ***n***