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Maps, Explorers & Adventurers => Maps, Cartographers & Cartography => Topic started by: BlueHue on June 03, 2007, 10:48:06 am

Title: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: BlueHue on June 03, 2007, 10:48:06 am
The Constellations above Chine are said to have been in the original Position above Greece in 1.000 bc.

Ptolemy ( 120 ad.)was critisized because he used Poseidonius measurtements in breath, instead the more accurate ones by Erasthosthenes.

The ancient Roman compilers are a paralell to the present internet-Detectives and maybe not all Compilers had the neccesary amount of( copied-)originals !

It is whishfull thinking that the DUAL Library of Alexandria in 47 bc, before it's burn-out by Caesar's 'nautical war ploy' of sending burn-ships to the unoccupied ships of Pompei[ for which he himself lacked the neccesary basic equipage.)was coppied well and often enough so that the Loss in unread uncopied litterature or history would not be too great.

A book on the ( Common ??)source-pool on which ancient wtriters were able to drawn information from may exist that is called a bibbliography for ancient quotations"but I have not seen one Yet in the (polly-Technical ) University Library of my Hometown.

 :'(   I am repeating that one Date is very important in pinpointing Atlantis on existing'ancient'Maps: the Date 855 bc when Earth's Axis "Tippe-Toppled"every amaeur  and professional Historian scoffs at it, but egyptologists simpluy know from astronomical Data and even the Bible( rev.21.) mentions it that in 855 bc a new Firmament appeared which scholars took figuratively instead of Litterally and thus denie, how the Earth's axis got reversed( initially 180%.) not by a Meteorite the size of Mars, or the Moon but by the Moon itselve, under the wellknown name: " PHAňTHON or PHAETHOUSA " or even " APHRODITE ".

Thus by simple deduction and knowing the Itinnerary routes of both Sea-voyages, Odyssee & Argonautes we can deduce which Map-informations dates from BEFORE & AFTER this important reversal-date 855 bc.

Thus it is clear that the presently survived description,  is the original route in the Gulf-of- ADEN but transfered to the Mediterranean -Sea which is a latIn transcription for the Known-World-encompassing Ocean-Sea.)of Odyssee & Argonauts dates from 86-855 bc but is layed-out on maps from after 855 bc which- of-course- picture in connection with the Starsigns, the present World chiefly:"Upside down"

 :D     POňT Virgil in 10 after Chr.supposes that the Star-Constellation above Aden/ Atlantis was after the Tippe-Topple, now lingering above Antartica Polezone. This notion may be correct, but bad readers thus changed the correct surmize into a  faulty location certainty. :'(

So in ' Melos' 105( or just 55 ? ? ) Atlantologists have based their Atlantis location on a map that is ( still since 855 bc.)'Upside-Down"

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: BlueHue on September 18, 2007, 02:55:24 pm
 Indeed I am a 'MANIC- DEPRESSIVE' what ?
You would be ithe same  when ( 25 old forensic and newly-)neighbours resent you because you study Atlantology and they say that the selling-prices of their speculation houses will plummeth if I keep living in their neighbourhood ?!

 underscribed my POINT that if Atlantis was inbetwwen - Herodotus-' ASIA & Lybia ' it could never be in the Mediaterranean Sea but at least in Ethiopia

Did you notice the -HORIZONTAL  NILE
do you think Herodotus made a mistake or did he drew this on purpose ? ?   ;D

My guess is that around 500 bc the mass production of known-world Maps required a specual Fish-Eye-lens Projection to save space on expensive parchement or papyrus.  :(  dd 10 oct. 2007

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: BlueHue on September 19, 2007, 02:47:00 pm


HERODOTUS projected his map in FISH-EYE lens projection, that's why the but-end of Africa is shown sticking in Morocco and the NILE Flowing HORIZONTAL.

 :'(     I have mentioned this HORIZONTAL  NILE projection before but nobody read it.  :'(

The Moon or ATLAS-Mountains are opposite AT-LANTIS  so some cartographers mistook Morocco or Spain for ancient Atlantis.  and in this sence the Sun is on the wrong hand !

Actually these MOON or ATLAS-Mountains are in Mid-Ethiopia opposite the World-Ocean called tghe Erytraean Sea by Herodotus( == now the Gulf-of-Aden.)   ;D    BlueHue dd Sept 19- 2007

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: Qoais on September 20, 2007, 12:40:46 am
Blue Hue, I've read a couple of times where you said the Nile was horizontal but at that time, I did not understand what you were saying, as you gave so much information, my mind boggled.  Now I see this map and I'm wondering how Herodotus would know of a "fish eye"  view.  Even in that view, the Nile would not be running horizontal.  It might look like it was curved upwards on the outer edges, but it wouldn't totally change direction.  Even the Caspian Sea is not shaped right, and it hasn't changed shape since that time.  Herodotus knew that snow in the mountains to the south, fed the Nile river and that the river ran north. 

I have no idea what was happening with this map back then, but I doubt Herodotus expected people hundreds of years later to take it as gospel geography.  Maybe he was just doodling on a napkin or something and someone decided to copy it.  Who knows.  Maybe it was a different Herodotus that drew it and it got mixed up.  I say this because as I said earlier, Herodotus the Historian, knew a lot, travelled a lot, and talked to a lot of people, including the Phoenicians.  Mariners, who told them they had sailed around Africa.  They would I'm sure, have told the story in great detail, and they would have mentioned how long it took besides telling him where the sun was.  Whatever the purpose of this map, it's certainly not something I'd see an educated man like Herodotus drawing up.  Maybe he was playing "treasure hunt" with the kids or something.

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: BlueHue on September 25, 2007, 01:40:42 pm
He, that's STRANGE I thought that I had already replied in full about the HORIZONTAL-Nile map-projection by HERODOTUS, to you before but maybe you need a stronger ' reminder ' ? !  Before your attention span runs out.


 ;D  ;D You ignored that the CENTRE around which HERODOTUS drew his maps was the THEN Centre-Town for any geographical maps named Ras-ADEN, ( or the original 'Jerusalem'.map projection of this Epoch.)

Ofcourse the whole Edges of this map-projection seem distorted but today we know that this was done to save Unused Expensive papyrus. The CASPIAN Sea seems also horizontally stretched and India is drawn horizontal Arabia seems the only sub-Continent drawn in the right position North-South !

We call this a fish-Eye (-lens-)projection and the map was to be viewed with a mirror fashioned as a Cone to bring back the original features!

later mapmakers were not aware that Herodotus used a Fish-eye map-projection and thus copied the non-existent horizontal Nile ! which later became the NEGRITO- NILE from which the river NIGER drew it's name.

 :'( It is obvious that Herodotus, meant the Horizontal Nile Map Projection to be  intended to be viewed vertical by a Mirror-Gadget.  Later Mapmakers and copiists did not know that and continued to reproduce the Horizontal Nile map Projection not realising the the Tribal-names amd topography of that map wholly belonged in South and EAS Africa and had no Connection at all with West Africa.

Thus the REAL nomad tribes living around 500 bc in north-Africa were with a stroke of Herodotus pen 'made invisible', much later the eroneous map info was mixed with real existing Tribes.

HERODOTUS": virtual-=horizontal-NILE-Map-projection:

 ??? The REAL course and the Real names of the Tribes living along the Real Vertical Nile remained unscated untaouched thus the Nasamones and Garamantes and the Ichtophagii and the Troglodites positioned in North Africa supposedly by an ignorant Cartographer have their original Copies still along the Red-SEA coast.
The name AROMATES or ARAMANTES in Herodotus  supposedly 'North'-African Map were the Cananite'AMORITES'and the ATLANTEANS, Living in Ras-Aden(= AD-Land is.)

Because of the Wrongly angled Red-SEA- Coast 'mirrored' as-it-were on the Algerian-Morocan Coast, the Mythographers who described the ittinerary of ODYSSEUS  ODDYSEE in the real Red-SEa and his journey to Atlantis/ Ad-Land in ( Esch)Scheria= Socotra.) repositioned The ARAB and Indian voyages on the North-African Coast and the Voyages done in the'World-SEA or Gulf-of-Aden'were redrawn on the Mare-Media-Terra-Nean.)

Media Terra-Nean-Sea  is a Roman/Latin translation of the World( =encompassing-)sea Of HERODOTUS' MARE-Erytraeum, which now became the Media Terranean or even the 'Black-Sea.'(= from Odysseus' Wine-Dark ' = Erytraeum-)SEA...

You may say the mind Boggles,  but this cartographical-wandering or SEA-Transition is really simple to comprehend.

When later the Geographers re-drew the Horizontal Nile in it's tru positio9n, the Non existing Nile was omitted from the Tashjili -N'Agghar / Hoggar-Deserts, but the Tribaql names alonmg this non0-existand Nile course remained in Place.

The PROBLEM is thus twofold: if you follow my drift:

A:   what was the original name of the Tribes of north-Africa, before the Year 512 bc when Herodotus had drawn his wrong projection map ? ? How long did these resident Tribes keep their original name, before the roman cathographers told them-map-inhand that their Names were erroneous and should be amended ?

for 2.000 years now these tribes in north Africa were thought to be barbaric or Berber-Hamites that had migrated from Ethiopia and british-Somalia, were the same names still thrive(! small wonder !)But now it turns out that there was no migration only a wrong map projection.  And thus these Tuaregg or Berbers have carried wrong names for the past 2.000 years ! !

B. The map of Herodotus should be examened and the tribes he mentions in socalled supposedly 'north-Africa'be RE-Matched with the Tribes of the same name( arabicised since ! ! that still live amongst te White & Blue Nile.  It is obvious that Marocco is not the MOUND-ATLAS that Herodotus meant.

Mound-Range ATLAS in Marrocco/Marukesh, or MAURETANIA (= meaning Western-RETINUE.) is actually IDENTICAL (=in the right Map-position-), with the MOON-Mountains that form the REAL' Sources; of-the-Nile ' !

In any encyclopaedia( Time- Historical Atlas , forinstance.) it says that ATLANTIS( in Africa) was directly 'opposite'  the Sources of the Nile or thus these "Moon-Mountains"    :'(  which were identical with the  famous ABBAS-Mountains,  which  Heracles, visited in Ethiopia (= Abbas or HABESH-)on one of his Golden-Cup-' jetflight ' travels . :'(

Thus when we observe the start of the Nile-River we notice that in East Ethiopia and Both Somalia's there existed a ancient Country named in Latin: AZANIA, which is the exact trancription of the Greek AZAES, that PLATO mentions as a* third-Part-of Atlantis.

So by a simple SUBTERFUGE, not by 'rushing-out Exploreres that sometimes fly with Angles', BUT, by just observing like Charlie-Chan told his'number-one Son', we have established the whereabouts of the periferal part of Atlantis that was named AZAES and refound it as AZANIA.

From AZANIA ( also identified by'  Hero-member-' TITAEIA, we go on PLATO"s indications and see that his MESTOR is none-other than present ETHIOPIA

EVANOR got the EXTREME- END of the ATLANTEAN 'Continent' on which stood Atlantis -Metropolis thuas this must be Arabia in particular: South-Arabia FoŽlix.

Arabia FOňLIX has initially nothing to do with the Roman NOTION of: "  HAPPY or joyfull."  FOňLIX is a wordcorruption for old Persian PHULBE or short: " assyrian " PhUL'. meaning ELEPHANT.

Thus by extention Arabia PhoŽlix means just:" ELEPHANT-HEAVEN " werwe the Elephants are holi watchers of the recurrent periodical Tsunamies in that AREA. Their Godly status was aquired when in 1075 bc the White Elephant Hurd grazing as Guardian CHERUBS around Poseidon's Temple  PRE-Warned the populace that watched the Sea miraculously retreat( as Bible-Book " Job " Chapter: 22 vers 11: 16 and Chapter 30: verse 14, contest !).

Thus when Moses was crossing the RED-SEA( in the South at Bab-el-Mandab !) and these conected  Sees parted in the AFAR TRIANGLE & Danakill region, on both Sides that was a fore-bode for a Tsunami in his days  Since the White-arabian Elephants reacted with wailing and Tropmetting they were called STANTOR or TANTTOO and the whailing SIRENS ( also called the 'babes' or '( Singing-)Birds'of Paradise !)on the Beaches along Scheria and Charis & Charybdis !

AD-Land was in Possesion of Egypt only durng the 18-th Dynasty from 1075 untill 855 bc when the Assyrian King Salmanasser-3, wretched it by cunning ( non-attack-)Treaties from the egyptian priesthood.

Thus when ACH-en-ATON or Aknaton came to power he was no longer in control nor Ruler over ARABIA-FoŽlix as his father had been. even General Horemhab had to acknowledge  Salmanasser's -3 souvereignity over this previously therefore,  contested egyptian territory.

The STATE SYMBOL for egyptian AD-Land/ TENEHU or thus Atlantis was a sitting Double eagle much like the German fat one but with Two heads.  The STATE CROWN was the HEM-HEM Crown with 6 Snakes and 3 Cardboard basketcrowns representing the THREE(= not 'TEN'.)Regions of Atlantis. a sympler Crown the -lighter-TATENEN-Crown with only ONE Basket and Three Snakes was for daily use, more often worn.

When a statue of QUEEN, (= Suten- Hempt- Urth.) TEY/ =TIYI was unearted last year -2007-in Cahiro, or Sakara I forget, she wore the Eaglefeathercap Crown , surmounted by 12 -cobra-Snakes on a Coronet, adorned with THREE WATER-Snakes( not 3 Cobras.) symbolising her COURT-function as QUEEN-of-AD-Land/ 'Atlantis'.( when the region of South-Arabia was still under egyptian domination.)  In the Bible She was named as Queen ' JEZABELLE '. (= IO-SHA-Baal. )Baal is the Moon/Elephant.

The Achnaton's childern wearing these honorary HEM- HEM and TATENEN- Statecrowns of Ad-Land/ Atlantis only,  were actually wearing Symbols of a State that did not exist or rather was 'given-Away' as-it-were to the enemy or feared friend Salmanasser-3.

To compensate for a State(= of AD-Land.) 'lost', Achnaton built a new AD-Land or Atlantis in miniature and called that AKETATEN or ACHET-ATON the' Holy-City-of-ATON' or a supposedly replica of what he left behind in Atlantis-Metropolis/ Ras-Aden-Crater.

That however was soon to experience a new GLOBAL-Tsunami but again survived.  in 1075 the Elephant was elevated from Voracious-Animal to the GOD-of-AD-Land or PUNT thus the EL-uv- PHANT'.
This time the resident Assyrians had no inkling about the Tsunami-Guard Duty of thwe Elephants and killed them when they had gone beserk just before the Global Tsunami occurred as the witchcraoft Causers.

The dammage of this 855 bc, global Tsunami to the Poseidon temple must have been considerable, but my guess is that it is stil under the local Mud-Shoal and the Asyrians just re-built a new Temple allbeit not of Poseidon but of RESHEF and later of: HADDAD-Rimmon on top of it !( now 'only' 50 meters under water.

WE do have an immage in Stone of this late Assyrian Temple of the ATLANTIS acropolis, because the trhen-Hittite-King or (-Neo-)Babylonian King: TUDHALLYRAS-4 or NABONID had the entire Temple of ADEN removed and repositioned at JAZILLIAKA in Bogazkoy/Hattushas. and donated several Atlantean Statues to various other Temples.

The discovery of these Statues and ofcourses remote-controles Staterecords, in 1888 made the Assyrologists think that around 1200 bc the ( non-existing-)Hittites had a unique civilisation in Turkey not realizing that King Nabonid had the additional Throne Title "King of Summer & Akkad (= Juda & Israel' )and thus also KING of HATTI(= Holy-Land-of AD.)

POSEIDON's 'ATLANTIS'Temple on display at HATTUSHA/ Pteria.on the Halys-River( now Kirzal-immak.)

Here we can examn the way the Greek POSEiDON, was pictured as KING-ATLAS: A man dressed in ELEPHANT skin wearing an Elephat Cap adorned with catonnage Elephant Tusks and a long Beard representing an Elephant trunck, watering a SAPLING with 3 branches which in later iconography became a Three-pronged stick or Trident in Greece but a Thunder-Flash in Haddad's  hand.

I STOP here for now otherwise TOM and MARK will accuse me of Rattling LONG incomprehensable Posts.


don't forget to comment on my Sub-Script if the Information Above seems 'Too much'. far out !
Sincerely  yours truly,     :'(  ' BlueHue '  :'(   dd Sept 25. 2007

Sic transit gloria Mundis  I have not touched all the neccesary DETAILS of this MAP-projection STORY so you may have been left, with questions unanswered.

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: Qoais on September 25, 2007, 06:30:25 pm
Well Blue Hue, I must admit, you're certainly convincing me of your theory, now that I understand it better.  I know nothing of the ancient Egyptian rulers, nor of the deals that were made regarding their lands.  However, I find the logic of your theory quite sound.  In MY mind, I was trying to correlate the story of the Pillars of Hercules with the cattle he stole from Geryon, and altho I wanted to take some time and apply myself to it, (which I haven't done yet), I find that since there were a number of different Hercules, I had decided to leave that factor out temporarily, to see if other data coincided.  I wanted to re-hash the story of the Amazons, using your information to see if it would fit.  I find that just looking at odds and ends, the story fits a bit better, if one considers everything Diodorus Siculus wrote regarding the peoples in the area.  The one point that really bothered me was that the Atlanteans were neighbors of the Amazons, and were attacked by the Amazons, and THEN the Amazons crossed Libya attacking Nomads as they went and then made friends with Horus of Egypt.  From there they went thru Arabia and around into Turkey and then the Greeks islands, where the Amazon queen put up a temple on Lesbos.  This trek makes much more sense to me.  They travelled with 3000 horse, and for them to swim this army across the strait of Gibralter makes no sense.  However, there was nothing mentioned about them crossing the water to attack the Atlanteans, other than that both the Amazons and the Atlanteans lived on a huge island or piece of land that was attached with a narrow neck.  Also that there were numerous volcanoes.

So - yes, your theory makes a lot of sense to me.  If that woman that makes the maps is correct, then your theory definitely has some meat to it.  I can definitely see where the building sites would have been built upon over and over, so anything that WAS Atlantean, would still be buried, as it were. 

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: Mark of Australia on December 06, 2007, 06:09:15 am
BlueHue ,

Where is this map you speak of ?

now now, Is this another mirage  ???

Title: Re: Ancient Maps( before 855 -bc Upside Down ??!)
Post by: BlueHue on December 06, 2007, 09:16:45 am
Dear. . . . MARK,

, the " Mirrage-image-Fish Eye-Map-Projection" of LOGOGRAPHIST ' HEKATAIOS ' of Milete, in 512 bc,  :'(

In the ' preliminairy ' prop. . sorry. . . Prologue of the " TIMES HISTORICAL- ATLAS" there are some b/w Plates with Greek-MAPS that never have existed,  in Drawing,  but just in ITINERY- writing, that only after: 1500 ad  have seen the Light of day in the printing-houses of Europe
HERE, you can see clearly, for yourself that once a major cartographist that was ferquently quoted than lesser ones, had drawn the Vertical Nile as a HORIZONTAL-one,  Resulting in the mis-interpretation of Atlantis in SPAIN( as: ' opposite' the Nile-river Sources.(which belong to Ethiopia not Marocco!) :'(

otherwise, see the ' WALDSEEMULLER- MAP' that Bianca-2001 is currently showing in Thread: ( Atlantis-)ANCIENT MAPS

Sincerely,  " BlueHue "  :'(   :'(   :'(  dd 6 Dec.2007