Atlantis Online

Atlantis => the Scientific Atlantis => Topic started by: Hermocrates on June 08, 2015, 12:08:03 pm



Title: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on June 08, 2015, 12:08:03 pm
Just as Socrates told us that he did not find the answers to truth/reality and understanding existence, by studying natural philosophy (natural science), so it is with Atlantis. The supposed, "Lost" Continent will never be found under the sea, no matter where one seeks it, in any part of the globe. Atlantis can only be found philosophically/religiously; it never sunk then. I mean this; only through logic and fully understanding Plato/Socrates and all the peculiar, intentional, irrational/rational, accounts written by Plato as regarding land topography, description and dimensions, climate, type of vegetation, mineral, and animal resources, infrastructures, engineering feats, political/military conditions and history of Atlantis/Athens, and also just a very brief statement depicting a world that had many other cultures and countries, besides Atlantis, Athens, and Egypt, etc. These, just to mention the major topics.  The "tale" is to be taken, as a whole, as truth or fiction, but not to piecemeal it as one wishes. However, to understand fully, one has to consider the abrupt ending, and missing remainder of the Critias, and also take into consideration the missing third dialogue, Hermocrates, and also the missing Philosopher dialogue from the incomplete trilogy (Sophist, Statesman...) Also to consider and give keen thought to those little, beneficial, "white lies" contained in the two dialogues, Timaeus, and Critias, although not very evident in these dialogues, just as white lies are also present but, explicitly, mentioned in the Republic.   


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Lisa Wolfe on June 11, 2015, 12:40:33 am
Too bad we have never been able to locate the pillar in the Temple of Neith (in Sais, Egypt), then we would know for sure that Plato was speaking the truth!


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on June 12, 2015, 07:57:38 pm
Too bad we have never been able to locate the pillar in the Temple of Neith (in Sais, Egypt), then we would know for sure that Plato was speaking the truth!


Something of that magnitude and importance to the Egyptians, would not only have been written about in the Temple of Neith, but also elsewhere in Egypt. Again, to know if Plato spoke the truth is only a matter of logic and reason.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 07, 2015, 09:22:50 am

at sgem2011 the national geological institute of a european union country announced that they had found atlantis. since sgem is not an event that is written about this information was known only to geologists until archaeologists were guided to gadiera and the pen of geryon. archaeologists are however labeling the region "garden of eden" rather than atlantis. it is a shame this type of information doesn't get out to the public until at least 10 years after the fact but its best to be absolutely sure i guess.

atlantis hunters should probably have noted where the first ever mention of the pillars of heracles places them. after that atlantis leaps out a satellite image, soil map and archaeological record.

peace


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 09, 2015, 11:24:44 am
Too bad we have never been able to locate the pillar in the Temple of Neith (in Sais, Egypt), then we would know for sure that Plato was speaking the truth!


Do you think that a single pillar, or an even an entire temple could recount the whole story of Atlantis, especially considering the entire discourse given by Timaeus?  And do you think, logically, that this information that the priests claimed to have been preserved by them all those thousands of years, and the explanation as to why that kind of information survives in Egypt, would so conveniently disappear in the times following Solon? Not to sound as if I'm contradicting myself, but Plato was speaking the truth. That is, a truth it was, if someone will only understand fully.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 10, 2015, 11:05:08 am

at sgem2011 the national geological institute of a european union country announced that they had found atlantis. since sgem is not an event that is written about this information was known only to geologists until archaeologists were guided to gadiera and the pen of geryon. archaeologists are however labeling the region "garden of eden" rather than atlantis. it is a shame this type of information doesn't get out to the public until at least 10 years after the fact but its best to be absolutely sure i guess.

atlantis hunters should probably have noted where the first ever mention of the pillars of heracles places them. after that atlantis leaps out a satellite image, soil map and archaeological record.

peace

Peace you say? Why your news is news to all those here with their very own pet projects of their very own idea and location of Atlantis, which happens to differ, mostly. And in Jesus' own words, "It's war and division you bring to them, not peace." For sure, someone who will notice your post will very likely request proof from you and from those of the national geological institute "country" you are telling of to this forum. But I'm sure that if you are telling something that really happened, many here will be privy to it already, since this forum is a mine full of experts on Atlantis, and for sure they are up to date. For me, I welcome any truth as to the whereabouts of the Garden of Eden too, besides Atlantis, so that mankind can return back to our beginnings. But I'm afraid that the find of the garden of Eden is very difficult to prove as such, because it had even less details about its physical description and location pointers for anyone to, "scientifically" assess the truth about any claims of having found it. But, if anyone finds the tree of life, the tree of knowledge, and the Archangel with a flaming sword in hand barring the entrance into it, then perhaps people will take notice. But the eventual scientific proof of having found Eden is noticing God walking in the midst of the garden, in the cool of the day.

How did you find this site, and what motivated you towards these here neck of the "woods," if I may ask?


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 10, 2015, 12:50:21 pm

Peace you say? Why your news is news to all those here with their very own pet projects of their very own idea and location of Atlantis, which happens to differ, mostly. And in Jesus' own words, "It's war and division you bring to them, not peace." For sure, someone who will notice your post will very likely request proof from you and from those of the national geological institute "country" you are telling of to this forum. But I'm sure that if you are telling something that really happened, many here will be privy to it already, since this forum is a mine full of experts on Atlantis, and for sure they are up to date. For me, I welcome any truth as to the whereabouts of the Garden of Eden too, besides Atlantis, so that mankind can return back to our beginnings. But I'm afraid that the find of the garden of Eden is very difficult to prove as such, because it had even less details about its physical description and location pointers for anyone to, "scientifically" assess the truth about any claims of having found it. But, if anyone finds the tree of life, the tree of knowledge, and the Archangel with a flaming sword in hand barring the entrance into it, then perhaps people will take notice. But the eventual scientific proof of having found Eden is noticing God walking in the midst of the garden, in the cool of the day.

How did you find this site, and what motivated you towards these here neck of the "woods," if I may ask?

peace comes when science says religeomythology wins. when everyone walks away happy.

what is the first text that mentions the pillars of heracles and where are they placed? can i hear from the experts?

the garden of eden is a kikkar. on the edge of the kikkar proper is the coffer that survived the first flood. the second flood saw the wood from the coffer used to make an ark. the coffer and kikkar survive because an excavation always does. these are the 2 varas of yima, atlantis and the pen of geryon, the abzu and gissag-kul of enki, the hidden circles and enclosure for protection of osiris-re the bahitra of visnu...etc etc.

sgem.org is a pretty big deal but i doubt very very much anyone here would even know someone who may have attended at anytime. its geology  so no coverage. if there is noone promoting this atlantis [ie there is no need for money] there is no coverage. if there is no coverage but money the work gets done. the announcement came in the first feature open lecture on the first day at sgem2011. the presenter was a senior geologist at the ngir in bucharest.

the university of belgrade held its first international workshop on the garden in 2013. it was attended by 16 universities from 7 countries.

how and why am i here? is this a hard forum to find or something? don't think so. am i promoting something for sale? no. am i a romanian nationalist? no i am canadian for 6 generations. do some people in the world want and deserve information. yes.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 11, 2015, 02:07:13 pm
You asked; "what is the first text that mentions the pillars of heracles and where are they placed? can i hear from the experts?"

I do not know about him being an expert that many here will accept, but I will provide you with a reference of one with not a mean reputation, Aristotle. Although there were many other previous mention as to the location of the Pillars of Heracles, but for the purpose at hand, Plato's Atlantis, here is what I can offer you.

The Pillars of Heracles were know to the Greeks, and therefore also to Plato, as the modern day location of Gibraltar. Aristotle, one of Plato's intimate disciples, and a pupil of the Academy for 20 years during Plato's lifetime, clearly, and without a doubt indicates, in his Meteorologica, that the pillars were this very location, the narrow mouth dividing the Med from the Atlantic. And in this work of Aristotle, one also can see the knowledge of geography that the Greeks of those times had, which also, clearly shows their specific knowledge of the outer ocean, the Atlantic.

But do me a favor, do not tell a certain "Nikas" on this site about it, as he will tell you that the Pillars of Heracles in the "Etruscan" dialect means "Pantelleria."


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 11, 2015, 04:28:36 pm
The Pillars of Heracles were know to the Greeks, and therefore also to Plato, as the modern day location of Gibraltar. Aristotle, one of Plato's intimate disciples, and a pupil of the Academy for 20 years during Plato's lifetime, clearly, and without a doubt indicates, in his Meteorologica, that the pillars were this very location, the narrow mouth dividing the Med from the Atlantic. And in this work of Aristotle, one also can see the knowledge of geography that the Greeks of those times had, which also, clearly shows their specific knowledge of the outer ocean, the Atlantic.


its not good for an expert or anyone with an interest not to know what the person who introduced the term "pillars of heracles" says. he was greek.

Pindar
Olympian 3
For Theron of Acragas Chariot Race 476 B. C.

I pray that I may be pleasing to the hospitable sons of Tyndareus and to Helen of the beautiful hair while I honor renowned Acragas by raising my song in praise of Theron's victory at Olympia, won by the choicest of horses with untiring feet. With this in view the Muse stood beside me when I found a shining new manner of fitting the splendid voice of the victory procession to the Dorian sandal. For the garlands twined around his hair exact from me this sacred debt, to blend harmoniously for the son of Aenesidamus the embroidered song of the lyre and the cry of the flutes with the arrangement of words, and Pisa bids me to raise my voice—Pisa, from which god-fated songs come often to men, for anyone over whose brow the strict Aetolian judge of the Greeks tosses up around his hair the gray-green adornment of olive leaves, fulfilling the ancient behests of Heracles; the olive which once the son of Amphitryon brought from the shady springs of the Danube, to be the most beautiful memorial of the Olympian contests, when he had persuaded the Hyperborean people, the servants of Apollo, with speech. With trustworthy intentions he was entreating them for a shady plant, to be shared by all men and to be a garland of excellence in the grove of Zeus which is hospitable to all. For already the altars had been consecrated to his father, and in mid-month the full evening's eye shone brightly, the Moon on her golden chariot, and he had established the consecrated trial of the great games along with the four years' festival beside the sacred banks of the Alpheus. But Pelops' sacred ground was not flourishing with beautiful trees in the valleys below the hill of Cronus. He saw that this garden, bare of trees, was exposed to the piercing rays of the sun. And so his spirit prompted him to travel to the land of the Danube, where the horse-driving daughter of Leto had received him when he came from the mountain-glens and deep, winding valleys of Arcadia; through the commands of Eurystheus, compulsion from his father urged him on the quest of the doe with the golden horns, which once Taÿgete had inscribed as a sacred dedication to Artemis who sets things right. Pursuing that doe he had also seen that land beyond the cold blasts of Boreas; there he had stood and marvelled at the trees, and sweet desire for them possessed him, to plant them around the boundary-line of the horse-racing ground with its twelve courses. And now in his kindness he comes regularly to this festival of ours, together with the godlike twin sons of deep-waisted Leda. For Heracles, when he ascended to Olympus, assigned to them the ordering of the marvellous contest of men, the contest in excellence and in the driving of swift chariots. And so my spirit somehow urges me to say that glory has come to the Emmenidae and to Theron through the dispensation of the sons of Tyndareus with their fine horses, because that family comes to them with the most hospitable feasting-tables of any mortal men, observing the rites of the blessed gods with pious thoughts. If water is best and gold is the most honored of all possessions, so now Theron reaches the farthest point by his own native excellence; he touches the pillars of Heracles. Beyond that the wise cannot set foot; nor can the unskilled set foot beyond that. I will not pursue it; I would be a fool.


which means there should be a pelagos [of atlas] at the junction of the danube and sava at 10kbc.... and there was
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Wc8X5tvTkIA/Vbg2KzTgyRI/AAAAAAABKRg/J81DtCl1jMs/s500-Ic42/11640bp.gif)
11640bp

as plato says its a nesos mostly fashioned by nature but helped by the hand of man
(https://shebtiw.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/atg11.jpg)

(https://shebtiw.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/goo1.jpg)

the pelagos drained away and became unnavigatable
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P1L0SPnt_as/Vbg2Le7Q9iI/AAAAAAABKRg/ez_yx3VJfT8/s500-Ic42/6000-8000bp.gif)
8000-6000bp

the coffer [or the pen of geryon at gadiera...vara of yima etc]...
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.015004,21.0232746,4703m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.015004,21.0232746,4703m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NSI7bbvBgwg/SQcdo7AMC3I/AAAAAAAAUeo/kycqIGHWXyA/s648-Ic42/gadir.jpg)

see how it blocked the advance of the early holocene sands
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GBqvwcvEJ7k/SQcdqrvdmjI/AAAAAAABHX0/vnDnF-JBc7E/s720-Ic42/50stade1a.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UDSZ49x0ESg/SQcdrWuv3nI/AAAAAAABHXc/WBZnStR8fWQ/s720-Ic42/50stadea.jpg)

amazing accuracy
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xjbkcr1xwZA/SQcdqTdRseI/AAAAAAAAUd4/Y5KFLWsYOJg/s300-Ic42/Sumer.seal5.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gC3yPRhiHfs/SQcdp2Kn-OI/AAAAAAABHa4/aCgAsmBEgyk/s800-Ic42/gad1.jpg)

see how it cuts the outside wall of the kikkar [dotted arc]
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r-yqMdwrcgU/Tia2i7eGasI/AAAAAAABHbg/cg-8zNb8ifI/s800-Ic42/c2.jpg)

recent archaeological discoveries can pintpoint who took this story [of yima and the vara] to egypt etc and when.

its all good fun and fascination if you have no agenda but the truth.

peace


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 12, 2015, 12:36:27 pm
The Pillars of Heracles were know to the Greeks, and therefore also to Plato, as the modern day location of Gibraltar. Aristotle, one of Plato's intimate disciples, and a pupil of the Academy for 20 years during Plato's lifetime, clearly, and without a doubt indicates, in his Meteorologica, that the pillars were this very location, the narrow mouth dividing the Med from the Atlantic. And in this work of Aristotle, one also can see the knowledge of geography that the Greeks of those times had, which also, clearly shows their specific knowledge of the outer ocean, the Atlantic.


its not good for an expert or anyone with an interest not to know what the person who introduced the term "pillars of heracles" says. he was greek.

Pindar
Olympian 3
For Theron of Acragas Chariot Race 476 B. C.

I pray that I may be pleasing to the hospitable sons of Tyndareus and to Helen of the beautiful hair while I honor renowned Acragas by raising my song in praise of Theron's victory at Olympia, won by the choicest of horses with untiring feet. With this in view the Muse stood beside me when I found a shining new manner of fitting the splendid voice of the victory procession to the Dorian sandal. For the garlands twined around his hair exact from me this sacred debt, to blend harmoniously for the son of Aenesidamus the embroidered song of the lyre and the cry of the flutes with the arrangement of words, and Pisa bids me to raise my voice—Pisa, from which god-fated songs come often to men, for anyone over whose brow the strict Aetolian judge of the Greeks tosses up around his hair the gray-green adornment of olive leaves, fulfilling the ancient behests of Heracles; the olive which once the son of Amphitryon brought from the shady springs of the Danube, to be the most beautiful memorial of the Olympian contests, when he had persuaded the Hyperborean people, the servants of Apollo, with speech. With trustworthy intentions he was entreating them for a shady plant, to be shared by all men and to be a garland of excellence in the grove of Zeus which is hospitable to all. For already the altars had been consecrated to his father, and in mid-month the full evening's eye shone brightly, the Moon on her golden chariot, and he had established the consecrated trial of the great games along with the four years' festival beside the sacred banks of the Alpheus. But Pelops' sacred ground was not flourishing with beautiful trees in the valleys below the hill of Cronus. He saw that this garden, bare of trees, was exposed to the piercing rays of the sun. And so his spirit prompted him to travel to the land of the Danube, where the horse-driving daughter of Leto had received him when he came from the mountain-glens and deep, winding valleys of Arcadia; through the commands of Eurystheus, compulsion from his father urged him on the quest of the doe with the golden horns, which once Taÿgete had inscribed as a sacred dedication to Artemis who sets things right. Pursuing that doe he had also seen that land beyond the cold blasts of Boreas; there he had stood and marvelled at the trees, and sweet desire for them possessed him, to plant them around the boundary-line of the horse-racing ground with its twelve courses. And now in his kindness he comes regularly to this festival of ours, together with the godlike twin sons of deep-waisted Leda. For Heracles, when he ascended to Olympus, assigned to them the ordering of the marvellous contest of men, the contest in excellence and in the driving of swift chariots. And so my spirit somehow urges me to say that glory has come to the Emmenidae and to Theron through the dispensation of the sons of Tyndareus with their fine horses, because that family comes to them with the most hospitable feasting-tables of any mortal men, observing the rites of the blessed gods with pious thoughts. If water is best and gold is the most honored of all possessions, so now Theron reaches the farthest point by his own native excellence; he touches the pillars of Heracles. Beyond that the wise cannot set foot; nor can the unskilled set foot beyond that. I will not pursue it; I would be a fool.


which means there should be a pelagos [of atlas] at the junction of the danube and sava at 10kbc.... and there was
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Wc8X5tvTkIA/Vbg2KzTgyRI/AAAAAAABKRg/J81DtCl1jMs/s500-Ic42/11640bp.gif)
11640bp

as plato says its a nesos mostly fashioned by nature but helped by the hand of man
(https://shebtiw.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/atg11.jpg)

(https://shebtiw.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/goo1.jpg)

the pelagos drained away and became unnavigatable
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P1L0SPnt_as/Vbg2Le7Q9iI/AAAAAAABKRg/ez_yx3VJfT8/s500-Ic42/6000-8000bp.gif)
8000-6000bp

the coffer [or the pen of geryon at gadiera...vara of yima etc]...
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.015004,21.0232746,4703m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.015004,21.0232746,4703m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NSI7bbvBgwg/SQcdo7AMC3I/AAAAAAAAUeo/kycqIGHWXyA/s648-Ic42/gadir.jpg)

see how it blocked the advance of the early holocene sands
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GBqvwcvEJ7k/SQcdqrvdmjI/AAAAAAABHX0/vnDnF-JBc7E/s720-Ic42/50stade1a.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UDSZ49x0ESg/SQcdrWuv3nI/AAAAAAABHXc/WBZnStR8fWQ/s720-Ic42/50stadea.jpg)

amazing accuracy
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xjbkcr1xwZA/SQcdqTdRseI/AAAAAAAAUd4/Y5KFLWsYOJg/s300-Ic42/Sumer.seal5.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gC3yPRhiHfs/SQcdp2Kn-OI/AAAAAAABHa4/aCgAsmBEgyk/s800-Ic42/gad1.jpg)

see how it cuts the outside wall of the kikkar [dotted arc]
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r-yqMdwrcgU/Tia2i7eGasI/AAAAAAABHbg/cg-8zNb8ifI/s800-Ic42/c2.jpg)

recent archaeological discoveries can pintpoint who took this story [of yima and the vara] to egypt etc and when.

its all good fun and fascination if you have no agenda but the truth.

peace

So your true nature comes through. You must be an angler of man, that you put forth your hook and bait, intending to catch a mighty prey; an expert of Atlantis? Well, I'm afraid that if you think me a big fish, or caught by your well disguised deception, adorned with a cry for help, think again, as I used Aristotle's very own mouth to bite your hook. You will have to take up your admonishment directly with him, if Aristotle did not know, who or when, the very first mention of the pillars was uttered or written. But perhaps you are premature, as you cannot convince many of the real “experts” on this site, as to your idea of the location of the pillars.

By Zeus and Apollo, I have to admire your surpassing brevity on how you have proven my ignorance, though. And how has your rhetoric convinced me, only those gods know. Am I to understand that about which you speak? I'm glad to hear it, as Pindar was often quoted by Socrates, but how is your rhetoric relative to a “scientific” proof of Plato's Atlantis? Tell me, Para, are you serious, or in jest? What you say seems to be very strange, and not at all conditioned by many of Plato's words. Are you not a regular declaimer, and running riot in the argument? Perhaps I was too modest with you, which led to my being entangled by you in this apparent trap you laid down. You sound like some of the parrots that perch around this site. Shame on you, as you knew all along the answer to the question you posed. Don't you know that dishonesty is shameful and unjust? Law is the king of all, of mortals as well as immortals; makes might to the right, doing violence with the highest hand; as I infer from the deeds of Heracles, for without buying them, nor having received them freely, he carried off the oxen of Geryon. Are you, likewise, trying to carry away the palm? Neither here, nor in a court of justice could you state a case, or give a reason of proof, nor offer valiant counsel on another's behalf. What you have provided, of what value is it? Your ideas are exactly that which converts a man/woman of sense into a fool. Take my advice and refute no more, but do learn the philosophy of this business of Atlantis, and acquire the reputation of wisdom, and leave to others their pet projects and thesis of the whereabouts of our dear departed Atlantis. I am not surprised at my own incapacity to give a plausible account of my own. But to me, the wonder is rather that the poets of the past are no better at being the source for this subject, and everyone will notice that the poets are just a tribe of imitators, and these things are past their capacity, which they cannot adequately represent in truth, as they add deities, poetry, drama, speculations, and their vivid imagination, to turn and twist things for their fancy.

Surely you are not trying to sell another perspective and location for Atlantis, are you? Or are you just searching for past glory for that obscure region of your native roots?  But I'm afraid that if we continue with your argument and story, the Egyptian priests will have turned out to be just mere story tellers, and not at all blessed with prophetic powers, and truth. Nikas has already made the priests ignorant of Sicily and Malta, although they, according to his thesis, were fluent and knowing with the Etruscan language and civilization.

What do mean to teach us with your presentation of, yet, more Google images? In accordance with the wishes of this site, do you think that you have provided overwhelming proof and have great powers of persuasion over us? Where does your account stand in placement with some of the other more imaginative suppositions and outlandish claims? It seems that you are wanting us to believe that you too have claimed the price. Is this idea of yours an original one, or is there someone before you? When was the first scientific corroboration to Pindar's identification of the pillars as being in your neck of the woods? But I'm afraid that your reference, Pindar, may not really be a good witness for scientific purposes, but good only in appearance.

Pindar, who was he? Was he not just another poet that did not fare well with Plato and Socrates? Nevertheless, lose not hope for your cause, as hope cherishes the soul of him who lives in justice and holiness, and is the nurse of his age and the companion of his journey; hope which is mightiest to sway the restless sole of man. Hope is last to die!

Let the real exerts here make sport with you. Nikas perhaps, will cherish a round or two with you on the location of the pillars. He also claims to be an expert in Greek and many other languages, and he claims to be a scientist of sort, and he too uses Google images as backing evidence of his Atlantis. See his posts on his having found the pillars near Malta, in the Med.

Peace to you too, my friend!


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 12, 2015, 01:43:02 pm
my family came to canada in 1789 from the choptank river in maryland usa where they had been for over 100 years. they left salisbury england when one of my ancestors was non-comedically roasted for being a good catholic. i have no roots in central europe even genetically.

as i said i am not selling anything. this information comes from the national geological body of a european union country not me. they are real scientists saying you are wrong. i am just a good listener.

i welcome conversations with any expert even if they are only self promoted. by profession i'm a marketing geologist but i have had much time and opportunity to broaden.

it seems you like to write and you obviously love the way you write so do something intelligent to benefit yourself.

peace


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 13, 2015, 06:28:14 pm
my family came to canada in 1789 from the choptank river in maryland usa where they had been for over 100 years. they left salisbury england when one of my ancestors was non-comedically roasted for being a good catholic. i have no roots in central europe even genetically.

as i said i am not selling anything. this information comes from the national geological body of a european union country not me. they are real scientists saying you are wrong. i am just a good listener.

i welcome conversations with any expert even if they are only self promoted. by profession i'm a marketing geologist but i have had much time and opportunity to broaden.

it seems you like to write and you obviously love the way you write so do something intelligent to benefit yourself.

peace

You say you are a good listener, but your not. However, do you claim that you are also a good reader? I mean that you have now, twice made me the author of others' words; Aristotle and Plato. Don't be like Peter and deny me trice. I have not been proven wrong, as you say both times, as I was, and please open wide those eyes, referencing Aristotle's written work, and his geographic knowledge of the known world to the Greeks of his times. In fact, in the same work I referenced, Aristotle mentions the Danube and Hyperboria also, and the area that you are placing the pillars at. However, you must not be familiar with Aristotle's works, and apparently not even Plato's. If you had, you would have noticed my poor attempt at satire, and you would have guessed that what I wrote, mostly, are the words of Plato. As I was trying to convey to you that Plato was a very intelligent person, and very knowledgeable of history, geography, etc., etc., especially poetical literature. The very fact that the major poets of old, Hesiod, Homer, Solon, Pittacus, Bias, Simonides.......and of course, Pindar, of which I quoted to you a couple of his passages is very, very evident in Plato's writings.

Why do I mention this? Well, was not our ancient genius well versed with Pindar's works? He and others of his time had full access to Pindar's entire works, and unlike us that rely on a few fragments only, which is all that have survived for us, don't you think that they must have been more familiar with Pindar's ode that you cited?  But, if Plato and Aristotle tell us, clearly, that the pillars of Heracles are our modern day straights of Gibraltar, how do you contend with that? Especially when coming from Aristotle, who was a very precise scientific man, even if he had a few things wrong when it came to the cosmos, and some other subjects.  Your point, which you have gotten from, no doubt, the internet, perhaps something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Hercules, and on which you selected to use only a portion, the reference to Pindar, and for which you further selected one of his odes to make your case, is still not very reliable, as I said before, as proving the Pillars of Heracles to be around the mouth of the Danube's terminating point.  But still I fail to see where mythology is corroborating science, as you claim.

Anyway, besides the fact that Pindar is not the first source, as you claim, to mention the pillars of Heracles, Pindar was a difficult poet to understand. You must really understand his prose to derive any benefit from it for use here, and the discussions on Atlantis. Also, you must “broaden” your mind much further, and go “past” the pillars before you admonish Aristotle, Plato, and anyone here on this site who is a real expert. I'm not an expert by any means or might, although I rely on others' expertise to make the point I was making. Don't go around the obstacles, but be brave and powerful, again like Heracles, and smash through that mountain of ignorance that hovers over you and come to reason and truth. But do watch for falling rocks when you cross over to the Atlantic through those pillars. Watch your translations too. The Danube was not the Danube to Pindar, it's the Istrus.  And the only thing Pindar says about the Istrus, is as to where Heracles brought back the olive tree from. But keep in mind that the olive tree was a gift from Athena to the Athenians. See where, even today, there are olives commercially grown to assess Pindar's ode. Also, look for symbolism in his poems, such as the meaning of the olive tree, and its oil had to the Greeks; their use of olive branches/leaves to make garlands to place on winners of contests, especially those that the odes refer to, and also the anointing of the body with the oil of the olive fruit. And learn that the upper Danube was not known to the Greeks as to all its tract and origin. Most Greeks, as probably did Aristotle too, relied on Herodotus. Herodotus claimed that the origin of the Istrus was from the country of the Celts in the extreme west, surging in the current day location of the Pyrenees. There, logically, from the springs of the “Danube” Heracles brought back the Olive tree. Since he found himself around those neck of the woods, working on his tenth labor, which was to fetch the Cattle of Geryon of the far West and bring them to Eurystheus; this marked the westward extent of his travels.

 And to conclude, I will quote Socrates' own words on the matter, and you be a man about it, and come away from ignorance, and hear Socrates' last words, as he was about to die shortly thereafter:

“If this is the right moment for an imaginative description, dear Para, it will be worth your while to hear what it is really like upon the earth. I believe that the real earth, viewed from above, is supposed to look like one of these balls made of twelve pieces of skin...I believe that it is vast in size, and that we, who dwell between the river Phasis and the Pillars of Heracles inhabit only a minute portion of it, as we live around the sea like ants or frogs round a pond, and there are many other people inhabiting similar regions. There are many hollow places all round the earth, places of every shape and size, into which the waters have collected.....”

Now the River Phasis according to the same sources you are likely using is: The Rioni or Rion River (Georgian: რიონი Rioni, Greek: Φᾶσις Phasis) which is the main river of western Georgia. It originates in the Caucasus Mountains, in the region of Racha and flows west to the Black Sea, entering it north of the city of Poti (near ancient Phasis). The city of Kutaisi, once the ancient city of Colchis, lies on its banks. Therefore, when Socrates, an Athenian, and Greek, says that He and all Hellenes, and all others around the banks of the sea or a pond, such as the Med is often described, are between the river Phasis and the Pillars of Heracles, surely your proposition that the pillars are near the mouth of the Danube's terminating point, is totally contradictory to Plato's Atlantis tale, and logic. Just as your assumption and interpretation of Pindar's ode is wrong.

Therefore, it's best if you keep to geology, if that is truly your business, and leave poets and poems, and the interpretations of them, to those that are divinely inspired, as Socrates tells us. For you do not see that, Pindar, in concluding the ode, is praising Theron's abilities and charioteer skills to the max, and is referring to his natural ability, and his coming from such an illustrious family that has gone far in power and wealth, to go also far in victories at the games. And in this “far,” since Theron is a Sicilian Greek, and Sicily is west to the location of the games, Pindar quantifies just how far, and therefore he mentions and references reaching the Pillars of Heracles, also west of Greece and Sicily too, since those pillars were thought to be farthest anyone should venture, since the other side was, mainly, unknown and full of speculations as to what was there, and there were many myths about it, filled with monsters and perils galore. That is why Pindar, at the end of the ode, regards anyone wanting to venture further west of the pillars nothing but fools. And having Theron go further than the pillars, would no longer be a praise, but an insult, as Pindar considers Theron to be not only a superb athlete, but also of superb mind (wise). 

Do you see your own reference backfiring? You make an erroneous assumption that the first part of the ode is directly tied to the end, and the reference to the pillars. The Olive tree is tied to Heracles third labor, going after the Ceryneian Hind, and in lenghty pursuit through lands outside of Hellas, including the land of the Danube (Istrus) he encounteres both Artemis, Apollo's sister, and the hyperborians. Whereas, the Pillars of Heracles, were tied to his tenth labor, the cattle of Geryon, and also his 11th, the Apples of the Hesperides. On his tenth, Heracles had to go to the island of Erytheia in the far west (sometimes identified with the Hesperides), or with the island which forms the city of Cádiz) to get the Cattle. On the way there, he crossed the Libyan desert and became so frustrated at the heat that he shot an arrow at the Sun. The sun-god Helios "in admiration of his courage" gave Hercules the golden chariot Helios used to sail across the sea from west to east each night. Hercules rode the chariot to Erytheia; Hercules in the chariot was a favorite motif on black-figure pottery. Such a magical conveyance undercuts any literal geography for Erytheia, the "red island" of the sunset. With the 11th labor, we have Heracles and Atlas, and again the Hesperides of the far west.

But in the presence of the honored gods, those who gladly kept their oaths enjoy a life without tears, while the others undergo a toil that is unbearable to look at. Those who have persevered three times, on either side, to keep their souls free from all wrongdoing, follow Zeus' road to the end, to the tower of Cronus, where ocean breezes blow around the island of the blessed, and flowers of gold are blazing, some from splendid trees on land, while water nurtures others. With these wreaths and garlands of flowers they entwine their hands.

Yes, there are many marvels, and yet I suppose the speech of mortals beyond the true account can be deceptive, stories adorned with embroidered lies; and Grace, who fashions all gentle things for men, confers esteem and often contrives to make believable the unbelievable. But the days to come are the wisest witnesses. It is seemly for a man to speak well of the gods; for the blame is less that way. One has only to read Pindar's Pythian 4 ode, “For Arcesilas of Cyrene Chariot Race 462 B. C.” to see that no mention of the pillars of Heracles are there, although it is speaking of Jason and the Argonauts travel to that part of the world you place the pillars at, by the same Pindar, that you obviously do not understand.


I can see that anyone that is capable of tracing his origins that far back in time, with a little extra “expounding,” can easily reach far back enough to touch Atlantis, first-hand. I have faith in you, and that is why I have gone so far with your hook in my mouth, because it hooked me so “bad” that I had to work long and hard to get Plato and Aristotle off the hook. But to me, you resemble a certain bird-brain on this very site; birds of a feather flock together. Although I suspect that it may be the one and same bird.

Peace, and be sure to send back those red cows back to Geryon, where they belong; just look to the west and follow your nose as it's pointing. If you need further instructions from Pindar, try this: But Cheiron rescued him and carried out the destiny which had been fated by Zeus. And Peleus, having thwarted all-powerful fire, and the sharp claws of bold-plotting lions, and the edge of their terrible teeth, married one of the Nereids throned on high, and saw the fine circle of seats in which the lords of sky and sea were sitting, as they gave him gifts and revealed the future strength of his race. Beyond Gadeira towards the western darkness there is no passage; turn back the ship's sails again to the mainland of Europe, for it is impossible for me to tell the full story of the sons of Aeacus.
 
I leave you with a modern poem; one of my favorites. Perhaps you will recognize it, even if I changed a word or two...

Stairway To Atlantis:
There are people who are sure that all that glitters is gold, and they are buying a stairway to Atlantis. When they get there they know, if the details don't match, with words of their own they can get what they came for. Ooh ooh and they are buying a stairway to Atlantis. There's a sign on the walls that don't match, but they want to be sure, 'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings. In an olive tree by the brook there's a songbird who sings, sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven. Ooh, it makes me wonder, will we ever find it? Ooh, it makes me wonder. There's a feeling I get when I look to the west, that is where it must be, and my spirit is crying for leaving. In my thoughts I have seen those Rings of smoke through the trees, and the voices of those who standing high on Google are looking. Ooh, it makes me wonder, will we ever find it? Ooh, it really makes me wonder. And it's whispered that soon, If we all recall Plato's tunes then the piper will lead us to reason. And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and when it is found, then the forests will echo with laughter. If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now, It's just a spring clean for the May queen. Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on. And it makes me wonder. Have we found it? Your head is humming and it won't go, and in case you don't know, the piper's calling you to join him. Dear people, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know that our stairway lies on the whispering wind. And as we wind on down the road, our shadows taller than our soul. There walks another one, someone we all know, who shines white light and with Google wants to show how ev'rything still turns to Atlantis. And if we listen very hard the tunes will come to us at last. When all are one and one is all, and to be a rock and not to roll around the earth, then we have fund our a stairway to “heaven.”

Heaven in Etruscan "Sicilian" dialect equates to Atlantis, but you will not recognize that, unless, like me, you are an expert in the Etruscan "dialect," just as much as you are an expert on Pindar. But Perhaps, as I have twice suggested, seek out "Nikas" if you want a real expert to spar with; the pillars' location are his specialty, as he arrogantly claims, and he "sure" knows Etruscan. With this I have concluded embarrassing Aristotle and Plato, and myself too, of course.

With peace you left me, and with a peace of my mind I leave you. Happy hunting in the dream land of the Hyperboreans! And Aristotle sends his thoughts too! "From Pyrene (this is a mountain towards the west in Celtice) there flow the Istrus and the Tartessus. The later flows outside the Pillars, while the Istrus flows through all of Europe into the Euxine. Well we will have to forgive Aristotle for making the Danube that much longer, but seeing that he had a hard time seeing over the Alps from his perspective, anyone can make that kind of mistake, but not yours. Give me a break, whomever you are! Now I understand you. Great or small, never mind about that, take your Google images and place them in an appropriate place; and I'm assuming that you are, at least, that much intuitive enough to understand me, for a change. It's all about correct placement, but be sure to close the lid and flush it!


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 13, 2015, 06:48:31 pm
why would i read all this? do you believe i can learn from it?

please tell all of us who wrote about the pillars of heracles before pindar. you say there was someone but you don't bother to tell us who. how can one learn from this?

its a poor intellect that doesn't follow the first best lead and until you prove otherwise pindar still owns this title.

ps i did say the junction of sava and danube [springs of ister]. that is the middle danube basin where was okeanos [pelagos of atlas]. i get the impression you think i mean the black sea area. you do know what a pelagos was at the time of plato i hope. no more wiki based scholarship please. if you can't use it as a reference in university it shouldn't be an acceptable source in any serious conversation.

pps herodotus also mentions the pillars of heracles up the danube but struggles with the story because he had no idea a pelagos had filled the midde danube basin [okeanos]. thats 2 sources.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 14, 2015, 03:25:55 pm
why would i read all this? do you believe i can learn from it?

please tell all of us who wrote about the pillars of heracles before pindar. you say there was someone but you don't bother to tell us who. how can one learn from this?

its a poor intellect that doesn't follow the first best lead and until you prove otherwise pindar still owns this title.

ps i did say the junction of sava and danube [springs of ister]. that is the middle danube basin where was okeanos [pelagos of atlas]. i get the impression you think i mean the black sea area. you do know what a pelagos was at the time of plato i hope. no more wiki based scholarship please. if you can't use it as a reference in university it shouldn't be an acceptable source in any serious conversation.

pps herodotus also mentions the pillars of heracles up the danube but struggles with the story because he had no idea a pelagos had filled the midde danube basin [okeanos]. thats 2 sources.

In "darkness" I found most here, and in darkness I leave you all. Plato's Atlantis in nowhere here, only fantasy. And how can Plato make those ambitious donkeys understand that their "long ears" does not make them belong to that better and nobler portion of their family, horses, especially when the donkeys are also deaf, dumb, and blind?  This site needs the Who's "Pinball Wizard" to play your game, and find Atlantis for you, as he does not hear any buzzes, bells" and "whistles, sees no lights flashing, and no "circles" either, but uses only his intuition and sense of smell. The Who will also tell you it's an "Eminence Front," and "I Can See for Miles." I see a lot of smoke on this site, but no fire. But in keeping with honesty, I have to admit that I did find traces of those bulls that were caught with nooses (logic) only, but only their "droppings." And that due to the great quantity and wide spread of this "fertilizer," I could not help "stepping" on it. Grasp the truth as a whole, and in the right way; you will then have no difficulty in apprehending the preceding remarks, and they will no longer appear strange to you. Seek out the others here of your kind, and measure who has the longest ones. I see, all too well, that there are no philosophers here, only kindergarten sophists and great braggers, mostly, save a few.

So long all you seekers and "experts," and like children, have fun in your playground of Atlantis. But, please, do be careful when the water starts to get over your heads in your search, as you are liable to drown in a sea of words.

In Latin "Etruscan" dialect I make my goodbyes to those that can understand it; veni, vidi, vinci......but only a lollipop, though. And this lollipop I leave here, as a winning "price" to you, the victor. Oh great and wonderful rival. The laws of song and the hurrying hours prevent me from telling a long story, especially since you will not read it, and I am drawn, by a magic charm on my heart, to touch on the new-moon festival. Nevertheless, although the deep salt sea holds you around the middle, strain against treacherous plots. We will be seen arriving in the light far above our enemies. But another man with another idea on the location of the Pillars, with an envious glance, broods in the darkness over an empty thought that falls to the ground. As for me, I know that whatever excellence ruling destiny gave me, time will creep forward and bring it to its appointed perfection. I will now retire to my observation post and watch you all Kick, Bite, and Bray, as you have done all along, long before I put in my two cents.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 14, 2015, 07:10:28 pm
of course i did read it. i was wondering why you thought i should. at the beginning you said pindar was not the first but failed to say who was. should i have read on because you are some wise sage who is to be listened to just because you are you?

for future reference if you say pindar was not the first then send people to wiki where it says pindar was the first you create problems for yourself and your credibility. not knowing that the pindar ode existed in the first place wasn't a great start. when someone actually doesn't know the first thing about a subject they fancy themselves an expert in it is heartbreaking to watch. i'm glad you've decided to take yourself off the air.

ps i usually require a cheque for one canadian dollar from my clients. i never cash them. save your lollipop for after school tomorrow but get your mommy to send me a cheque.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Rennes-le-Château on September 14, 2015, 08:21:06 pm
Quote
In "darkness" I found most here, and in darkness I leave you all.

And in denseness I found all of your posts and in denseness you shall remain. You have got the be the DUMBEST poster I have ever come across. You haven't researched word one about Plato or Atlantis and try to compensate for your ignorance (clear to everyone but you) with a bunch of verbose long-windedness about everything but Atlantis. Then, when all else fails, resort to juvenile insults.

This is what passes for debate in your warped point of view?

Look, I am sorry that no one supported your strange belief that Plato was a devout Christian (four hundred years before Christianity was even invented) and shared the prophecies of John the Revelator, but that is the way it goes when you spout nonsense to logical thinking people.

Here is a prophecy I have for you, Hermaphrodite:

No matter where you go, you will get the same response, save that people will probably have even less patience for this vacuous persona you created (nobody could be that obnoxious and uninformed).

Anyway, Happy Trails, Hermaphrodite, the forum just got collectively smarter with your departure.  :D


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 14, 2015, 09:43:58 pm
why would i read all this? do you believe i can learn from it?

. you say there was someone but you don't bother to tell us who. how can one learn from this?

its a poor intellect that doesn't follow the first best lead and until you prove otherwise pindar still owns this title.

ps i did say the junction of sava and danube [springs of ister]. that is the middle danube basin where was okeanos [pelagos of atlas]. i get the impression you think i mean the black sea area. you do know what a pelagos was at the time of plato i hope. no more wiki based scholarship please. if you can't use it as a reference in university it shouldn't be an acceptable source in any serious conversation.

pps herodotus also mentions the pillars of heracles up the danube but struggles with the story because he had no idea a pelagos had filled the midde danube basin [okeanos]. thats 2 sources.

I guess that I was a tad bit too frank and not politically correct when I wrote you off in my last post before this one. The reason that I'm addressing your concerns and accusations, are the same as Plato, as I do not want to sound as a mere man of "words." I guess I should have a little more patience with little ones like you.

You say to me: "please tell all of us who wrote about the pillars of heracles before pindar." Is that not rather childish to ask that of me, or to anyone who has read Plato? You have read Plato, I assume? Well, even though the subject and main point was to find another ancient source, besides Plato, to corroborate the mainstream opinion that the pillars of Heracles are the present day strait of Gibraltar, for which I provided it to you initially, along with the clear indication that the expertise was being provided by Aristotle, and I identified his work that provided the corroboration, and also I stated that there were others before Aristotle and Plato/Socrates that have mentioned the "pillars of Heracles," yet you still did not understand, and continued to admonish me. I tried a second time, with a rather lengthy try, adding my rationale as to your mistaken ideas and knowledge of Pindar, and still to no avail. I had hoped that a third try would have done the trick, but as in baseball, I struck out in making you understand. Therefore I relied on more descriptive words. We will see if that will convince you, yet.

But I digress, as you wanted to know who before Pindar mentioned the pillars. And as Socrates asked; do you want the one drachma discourse or the 50 drachma discourse? But I think for you, since you alluded to the fact that you don't like to read much, at least what I wrote to you, I mean, then I will give the one drachma. Also because like Socrates, I don't have 50 drachma to give, just in case some Etruscans want to know.

Why my dear Para, of course it was not Pindar who first mentions the pillars, but before we get to the first, which will be a great ordeal, since much of ancient literature has been lost, I will at least, just to prove you wrong, give you one source older than Pindar. How is that, will you accept it? I know many here will, if they choose to chime in. So like it or not, here it goes. If we can believe Plato, or as some wanted here, if we can believe the priests, then it was Solon, who before Pindar mentions them. Pindar was only born around 522 BC, whereas Solon already died in 558 BC. Are you good with math? And as far the Herculean labors cited by Pindar in his odes, and which I tried to explain to you, are nothing other than a borrowing and an embellishment, almost a plagiarism of sort, really, by Pindar from his Boeotian countryman, Hesiod. Now we all know that Hesiod was even much older than Solon, and if you carefully expand your eyes wide open, and get a little knowledge, by perusing his Theogony, provided that can really read, you will notice the similarity. Albeit, Hesiod was a man of poor roots and means, and tendered to the people of the streets, by being plain, whereas Pindar was of aristocratic root, and liked to rub elbows with rich and powerful tyrants, especially the Sicilian ones, and gladly flattered them, such as in the ode you cited, which are very poetic and full of worthless and needless words.  The myth is the central piece of Pindar's odes, and Hesiod writings are a wealth and flowing springs of myths galore. Pindar was perfectly familiar with Hesiod, and for this, we can see Pindar quoting Hesiod by name. Why did Pindar use Heracles so much in his poetry? Plain enough, Pindar was a Theban too, need I more to say?

Well so long friend. Hesiod sends you his regards too:

And now I will tell a fable for princes who themselves understand. Thus said the hawk to the nightingale with speckled neck, while he carried her high up among the clouds, gripped fast in his talons, and she, pierced by his crooked talons, cried pitifully. To her he spoke disdainfully: “Miserable thing, why do you cry out? One far stronger than you now holds you fast, and you must go wherever I take you, songstress as you are. And if I please, I will make my meal of you, or let you go. He is a fool who tries to withstand the stronger, for he does not get the mastery and suffers pain besides his shame.” So said the swiftly flying hawk, the long-winged bird.

And mighty Heracles, the valiant son of neat-ankled Alcmena, when he had finished his grievous toils, made Hebe the child of great Zeus and goldshod Hera his shy wife in snowy Olympus. Happy he! For he has finished his great work and lives amongst the undying gods, untroubled and unaging all his days.

And again, Ceto bore to Phorcys the fair-cheeked Graiae, sisters grey from their birth: and both deathless gods and men who walk on earth call them Graiae, Pemphredo well-clad, and saffron-robed Enyo, and the Gorgons who dwell beyond glorious Ocean in the frontier land towards Night where are the clear-voiced Hesperides, Sthenno, and Euryale, and Medusa who suffered a woeful fate: she was mortal, but the two were undying and grew not old. With her lay the Dark-haired One1in a soft meadow amid spring flowers. And when Perseus cut off her head, there sprang forth great Chrysaor and the horse Pegasus who is so called because he was born near the springs of Ocean; and that other, because he held a golden blade3in his hands. Now Pegasus flew away and left the earth, the mother of flocks, and came to the deathless gods: and he dwells in the house of Zeus and brings to wise Zeus the thunder and lightning. But Chrysaor was joined in love to Callirrhoe, the daughter of glorious Ocean, and begot three-headed Geryones. Him mighty Heracles slew in sea-girt Erythea by his shambling oxen on that day when he drove the wide-browed oxen to holy Tiryns, and had crossed the ford of Ocean and killed Orthus and Eurytion the herdsman in the dim stead out beyond glorious Ocean.

But these sons whom he begot himself great Heaven used to call Titans (Strainers) in reproach, for he said that they strained and did presumptuously a fearful deed, and that vengeance for it would come afterwards. And Night bore hateful Doom and black Fate and Death, and she bore Sleep and the tribe of Dreams. And again the goddess murky Night, though she lay with none, bare Blame and painful Woe, and the Hesperides who guard the rich, golden apples and the trees bearing fruit beyond glorious Ocean.

Men say that Typhaon the terrible, outrageous and lawless, was joined in love to her, the maid with glancing eyes. So she conceived and brought forth fierce offspring; first she bore Orthus the hound of Geryones, and then again she bore a second, a monster not to be overcome and that may not be described, Cerberus who eats raw flesh, the brazen-voiced hound of Hades, fifty-headed, relentless and strong. And again she bore a third, the evil-minded Hydra of Lerna, whom the goddess, white-armed Hera nourished, being angry beyond measure with the mighty Heracles. And her Heracles, the son of Zeus, of the house of Amphitryon, together with warlike Iolaus, destroyed with the unpitying sword through the plans of Athena the spoil driver. She was the mother of Chimaera who breathed raging fire, a creature fearful, great, swift footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion, another of a goat, and another of a snake, a fierce dragon; in her forepart she was a lion; in her hinderpart, a dragon; and in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire. Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophon slay; but Echidna was subject in love to Orthus and brought forth the deadly Sphinx which destroyed the Cadmeans, and the Nemean lion, which Hera, the good wife of Zeus, brought up and made to haunt the hills of Nemea, a plague to men. There he preyed upon the tribes of her own people and had power over Tretus of Nemea and Apesas: yet the strength of stout Heracles overcame him. And Ceto was joined in love to Phorcys and bore her youngest, the awful snake who guards [335] the apples all of gold in the secret places of the dark earth at its great bounds. This is the offspring of Ceto and Phorcys

Now Iapetus took to wife the neat-ankled maid Clymene, daughter of Ocean, and went up with her into one bed. And she bore him a stout-hearted son, Atlas: also she bore very glorious Menoetius and clever Prometheus, full of various wiles, and scatter-brained Epimetheus who from the first was a mischief to men who eat bread; for it was he who first took of Zeus the woman, the maiden whom he had formed. But Menoetius was outrageous, and farseeing Zeus struck him with a lurid thunderbolt and sent him down to Erebus because of his mad presumption and exceeding pride. And Atlas through hard constraint upholds the wide heaven with unwearying head and arms, standing at the borders of the earth before the clear-voiced Hesperides; for this lot wise Zeus assigned to him. And ready-witted Prometheus he bound with inextricable bonds, cruel chains, and drove a shaft through his middle, and set on him a long-winged eagle, which used to eat his immortal liver; but by night the liver grew as much again everyway as the long-winged bird devoured in the whole day. That bird Heracles, the valiant son of shapely-ankled Alcmene, slew; and delivered the son of Iapetus from the cruel plague, and released him from his affliction—not without the will of Olympian Zeus who reigns on high, that the glory of Heracles the Theban-born might be yet greater than it was before over the plenteous earth. This, then, he regarded, and honored his famous son; though he was angry, he ceased from the wrath which he had before because Prometheus matched himself in wit with the almighty son of Cronos.

And Pindar also wants to say something more on the pillars:

The hymn will have a pleasant toil, to be the glory of the land where the ancient Myrmidons lived, whose marketplace, famous long ago, Aristocleides, through your ordinance, did not stain with dishonor by proving himself too weak in the strenuous course of the pancratium. But in the deep plain of Nemea, his triumph-song brings a healing cure for wearying blows. Still, if the son of Aristophanes, who is beautiful, and whose deeds match his looks, embarked on the highest achievements of manliness, it is not easy to cross the trackless sea beyond the pillars of Heracles, which that hero and god set up as famous witnesses to the furthest limits of seafaring. [/b] He subdued the monstrous beasts in the sea, and tracked to the very end the streams of the shallows, where he reached the goal that sent him back home again, and he made the land known. My spirit, towards what foreign headland are you turning my voyage? I bid you to summon the Muse in honor of Aeacus and his race; consummate justice attends the precept, “praise the noble.”



Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 14, 2015, 10:45:09 pm
seriously? do you actually walk around all day with thoughts like those running through your head or are you just putting on a show for me? in your country do they traditionally string together 25 words just to say eat me?

i must confess that initially the government of romania published an incorrect or incomplete location of the island of atlas in 2006. i charged them nothing to show them where it really was. you still owe me a dollar.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 15, 2015, 10:17:19 am
seriously? do you actually walk around all day with thoughts like those running through your head or are you just putting on a show for me? in your country do they traditionally string together 25 words just to say eat me?

i must confess that initially the government of romania published an incorrect or incomplete location of the island of atlas in 2006. i charged them nothing to show them where it really was. you still owe me a dollar.

To answer your questions; it is simple enough to be vulgar in any country, and perhaps that is always best for your kind. But you see, I was never trying to impress you, but only ridicule you.  But you are just not smart enough to understand and realize it. Go ahead and tell the others here on this site that Plato lied to them, and spoil their fun, if you insist with Pindar. Because those priests could not possibly have uttered the "Pillars of Heracles" in telling the story to Solon; how could they use that term, when Pindar was not yet born? I'm surprised that they are not persecuting you, yet. But perhaps if you challenge our mighty Nikas on the whereabouts of the pillars and chime in on the thread he started, you will get more publicity and be noticed by the other experts; then you will get hell unleashed on you. Then, my friend, we must not regard what the many say of us: but what he, the one man who has understanding. You have been meaning to get my attention for a while, but I kept ignoring you. But again, you kept at it just as a spoiled child keeps crying until it gets the toy it wants. Now I have already given you a lollipop, parta, or rennes, or whatever other names you hide behind. Just how many different usernames does this site allow an idiot like you to have? There cannot be so many birdbrains. Therefore be a good little boy and let somebody else change your diapers for a while, as I told you before. A birdbrain is a birdbrain, no matter the name.  But if the lollipop does not seem enough for you, here, I'll sing you a nursery rhyme, hoping you go to sleep and stop bothering me. 

The lessons of primary daily concerns.
You have learnt from the Birds, and continue to learn
Your best benefactors and early instructors
They give you the warning of seasons returning
When the Cranes are arranged, and muster afloat
In the middle air, with a creaking note
Steering away to the Libyan sands
Then careful farmers sow then- lands
The crazy vessel is hauled ashore
The sail, the ropes, the rudder and oar
Are all unshipped and housed in store
The shepherd is warned, by the Kite reappearing
To muster his flock, and be ready for shearing
Your old cloak at the Swallow's behest
In assurance of summer, and purchase a vest
For Delphi, for Ammon, Dodona, in fine
For every oracular temple and shrine
The Birds are a substitute equal and fair
For on us you depend, and to us you repair
For counsel and aid when a marriage is made
A purchase, a bargain, a venture in trade
A tip on a tale of pillars and circles, of a time long ago
Unlucky or lucky, whatever has struck ye
An ox or an ass that may happen to pass
A voice in the street, or a slave that you meet
A name or a word by chance overheard
If you deem it an omen, you call it a Bird
And if birds are your omens, it clearly will follow
That birds are stupid and easily stumble
Your struggles of misery, labor, and care
Whence you may learn and clearly discern
Such truths as attract your inquisitive turn
Which is busied of late with a mighty debate
A profound speculation about the creation
And organical life, and chaotical strife
With various notions of heavenly motions
And rivers and oceans, and valleys and mountains
And sources of fountains, and meteors on high
And stars in the sky, we propose by and by
If you'll listen and hear, to make it all clear
And you henceforth shall pass for a dunce
When your doubts are explained and expounded at once
Of late I call you the same, you birdbrain of shame 
Because it wheels and rolls about
As it were, in a kind of a ball
Well, there then, you may build and fortify
And call it your metropolis, your acropolis
Our antiquity proved, it remains to be shown
That Pindar the man is our author, the one
Like him we can ramble, and gambol and fly
O'er ocean and earth, and aloft to the sky
And all the world over, we 're friends to the Man
And when other means fail, we are found to prevail,
When a Peacock or Pheasant is sent as a present.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 15, 2015, 11:29:49 am
you do have a flair for combining a comedy of errors with tragedy. when is the last performance?


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 15, 2015, 02:54:12 pm
you do have a flair for combining a comedy of errors with tragedy. when is the last performance?

Tell me, most unworthy creature, scandal of the feathered race. Must I see my friends and kinsmen massacred before my face? Heaven forbid, I would only ask you to be consistent, or if you change, change openly and let there be no deception. For you will recall, birdbrain, what was previously requested by you, which I have now provided; what say you sage that you are? Surely we must have your answers, as you requested of me. Now there is no doubt; are you going to run away before you have fairly taught or learned whether it is true that Pindar was the first to coin the phrase, Pillars of Heracles? Why do you ask me when is my last performance, don't you know anything about comedy and tragedy? Are you not broadened enough to know our dear ancient Greek artists in these matters, or are you stuck on just one Ode? But if you did know, you would know where it begins and ends. But the last, the very last of my performance is not quite yet. We are only at the prelude, if you persist with your nonsense and charades. Be bold and announce your ignorance openly because, modesty in not good for a needy man. Therefore do not be modest; not to worry, we cannot see you blush and note those pink cheeks behind your curtain of ignorance. Good men do not need compelling, but you do. Wherefore necessity must be laid upon you, and you must be induced to admit your faults from the fear of embarrassment.

Of what benefit is your willingness to, freely, admit faults? Just this. You will lose your conceit, because in your ignorance, you think yourself cleaver, and that admonitory sort of instruction, like, "eat this," is not good, it gives much trouble and does little good. But, when others cross-examine a man's words, and when he thinks that he is saying something and really saying nothing, and when he is easily convicted of inconsistencies in his opinions; these they then collect by the dialectical process, and placing them side by side, show that they contradict one another about the same things, and in the same respect. He, seeing this, is angry with himself, and grows gentle towards others, and thus is entirely delivered from great prejudices and harsh notions, in a way which is most amusing to the readers, and produces the most lasting good effect on the person, you, who is the subject of the operation. For as the physician considers that the body will receive no benefit from taking food until the internal "obstacles" are evacuated, so the purifier of the mind is conscious that his patient will not benefit from the application of knowledge until you are refuted, and from refutation learn modesty; you must be purged of your prejudices first and made to think that you know only what you know, and no more. And you know nothing of these matters you bring out and pride yourself on.  For this reason, we must admit that refutation is the greatest and chief of purification, though one be the greatest expert of all, he himself, is in an awful state of impurity.

Yes my friend, in a word, is not the art of disputation a power of disputing about all things? I ask can a man know everything? happy would mankind be if such a thing were possible! But I ask you, how can anyone who is ignorant, like you, dispute in a rational manner against him who knows? Don't give me those two liners of controversial nonsense, and do please learn to read and interpret events and timelines correctly. But am I concerned with your nonsense? No! There are other eyes to see, those, if fair and wise, the truth discerns. What do I need from you, another lollipop? As we also say in baseball, it's over when the fat lady sings! So start singing you hydra, and multi-headed dumb bird! Heracles finished his labors, and I'm not coming down to your level, with one liners, so it's not eat this, but please, do sing; I have nothing of mine stuck in your mouth, but only the Greek sages you placed there yourself. Be sure to clear your throat though before you start, like the great tenors do; sing us an aria worthy of you; perhaps from Rigoletto, La Donna e Mobile? Or if you cannot reach those high notes, try a Ted Nugent tune, "Stranglehold."

I'm here in my festive array, and no man could be more ready for the promised banquet. So entertain me now, as I have entertained you. Start singing and dancing, and if you want John's head on a silver platter for your reward, you better dance and sing well, really well! We want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I'll throw in a couple of crackers too, for any of your feathered friends and supporters that will come to your aid. (Names withheld)

Peace, and blessing to you, dear esteemed friend, may the Lord give you courage!


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 15, 2015, 03:07:20 pm
wow i am a birdbrain now. i'm almost tempted to go to the bank machine and post the balance of my personal account. then we could determine how many times i can buy and sell you. i need only know my 10 times table thank my birdbrain goodness.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 16, 2015, 06:24:20 am
wow i am a birdbrain now. i'm almost tempted to go to the bank machine and post the balance of my personal account. then we could determine how many times i can buy and sell you. i need only know my 10 times table thank my birdbrain goodness.

I have a million in the bank, so if you have ten times my worth, do you by chance also have brown feathers, and laid some eggs for Mr. Blackwell?

http://www.shortlist.com/shortlists/the-worlds-richest-animals

GIGOO
Chicken (£6 million or $10 million)
Now, it's hard to get too angry with the annoyingly unpronounceable Gigoo. While most of her brothers, sisters, cousins and vague acquaintances are likely to find themselves covered in breadcrumbs and shoveled into the mouths of toddlers, this plucky hen found herself at the center of publishing mogul Miles Blackwell's will once his wife died. Whether or not his wife died from severe pecking injuries is unknown.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 16, 2015, 10:24:00 am
you go to the bank machine and i will go to the bank machine [probably on saturday because it is supposed to rain and i will go to town] and we shall post our official paper balances. we shall prove it. agreed?


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 17, 2015, 10:25:05 am
you go to the bank machine and i will go to the bank machine [probably on saturday because it is supposed to rain and i will go to town] and we shall post our official paper balances. we shall prove it. agreed?

Wait, friends, there's a bird amongst the seekers of Atlantis.

By Zeus, it is a bird, but what kind? Wait till it opens its beak, then we'll know. By Heracles, it's not one of those we are used to seeing around here; it's a bird from the marshes of the Danube, but it's very broadened and wealthy, with wings as golden as the sun. Aye, indeed; this one is a foreign bird too. What is this bird from beyond the mountains with a look as solemn as it is stupid? An Hyperborean swan, oracle of Apollo, but not of the noble kind, but a mere chicken at heart and brain. You who hop about the branches of the olive in the gardens; you mountain bird who feed on the wild olive-berries or the arbutus, hurry to come at my call.

Take my advice. Well, firstly, do not fly in all directions with open beak; it is not dignified. Among us men, when we see a thoughtless man, we ask, “What sort of bird is this?” and the answers is, “It's a man who has no brain, a bird that has lost his head, a creature you cannot catch, for it never remains in any one place.” But I blame Plato for all this mess. That Plato, the bird-seller, played us a scurvy trick, when he pretended this guide could help us to find Atlantis, Parta, the wealthy Hyperborean, who is a bird, without being born of one. Plato has indeed sold us this chicken parta, a true son of Pindar, for an obolus, but what can it do? Why, nothing whatever but bite and scratch! What's the matter with you then, Parta the Hyperborian chicken, that you keep opening your beak? Do you want us to fling ourselves headlong down those rocks of Heracles? There is no road that way, you dumb bird.

I suspect that you are one very sick bird. Usually, chickens get sick when their coop is not cleaned often enough. Get someone else to clean it. And if you are really GIGOO, and have all that money, do something good with it, and go buy a brain worthy of a man, not a bird. Any of the many sophists around here will gladly sell it to you.

And I need no proof of your wealth, just as I need no proof of your stupidity. I trust you to be as wealthy as you are stupid. But I guess it's all in fun and games. Why would this site exist, if it was not that?

Since no one officially welcomed you, I will welcome you to the playground of great debate, second only to the second coming! Although we cannot be friends, as I'm not of the bird tribe, still, you can learn from an enemy! I may not be as wealthy as you claim to be in money, but I do have a great big storehouse of crackers. Parta, do you want another cracker? Or will you only settle for another simple "bird?" The one in my hand, the finger in the middle of the fingers, I mean! Since you are an expert on Pindar, was not Pindar the first to say: "A bird in hand is worth two in the bank."

Anyway, if you want to continue with this, clearly, the thread was not how wealthy one is which brings to this forum their ideas on Atlantis.  Stick to that if you are a serious seeker, otherwise flyaway.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 17, 2015, 10:40:30 am
throughout time ones wealth was directly proportional to their level of birdbrainness. i think you are a sad little pauper.
all can see who got caught by their own arrogance and all the jibber jabber in the world won't make you look smart again.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 17, 2015, 11:22:48 am
throughout time ones wealth was directly proportional to their level of birdbrainness. i think you are a sad little pauper.
all can see who got caught by their own arrogance and all the jibber jabber in the world won't make you look smart again.

Dear Parta, or rennes, or whatever else you go by on this site, as I told you long ago, you are truly and idiot and fully ignorant of these issues. So why don't you go and find a roosting place worthy of your feathers. You are an insult to Plato and everything he stood for, not to mention this site and those that are seriously, seeking to know. My bird in hand is the last on this, as I give it to you again. And as I gave you, as Rennes, the last word before, so here you, after this, can rave and rant all you want. 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 17, 2015, 12:00:56 pm
now you think we are sock puppets.
the only thing rennes and i have in common is that we both think you are an idiot. since you are able to call people all sorts of names without constraint this site must be a full democracy. unless you can come up with more votes, the motion for you being an idiot will carry.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 17, 2015, 01:09:42 pm
now you think we are sock puppets.
the only thing rennes and i have in common is that we both think you are an idiot. since you are able to call people all sorts of names without constraint this site must be a full democracy. unless you can come up with more votes, the motion for you being an idiot will carry.

P.S.  Sorry to interrupt your ranting, but I forgot to mention that a wise person always admits to a possible error, as God only knows. Therefore, in case, a very, very, remote case, that I was mistaken about you and rennes, or others being one and the same, I pose this in defense. Although maybe not the same, you two are sure twins. Yes, Siamese twins, joined at the head, and still of the same feather. And while I'm here, let me tell you two or three, that besides not knowing Plato or other ancient Greeks, you are also a wretched fisherman. You stuck the hook in your finger, trying to bait it. So here is my bird in hand, to you as your mate, for the third time. It's easy to get more votes for yourselves, especially when you raise your hand more than once. But, in reality, when in an aviary, birds do seem to be more numerous, in deed!

Now you can continue your rant, or should I say, more appropriately, "cackle" since you have just laid an egg my dear bird! Yes, but I'm afraid that it is just another mere wind-egg, like many already laid in your coop. You are not suited for this kind of debates, and I will be generous enough to point you to another place, where the debate is all about Santa's rain deer.  The main topic is: Does Rudolph really exist? And why is it that only his nose is "red?" If you find that site too advanced for you, come back and I will point out an easier one for you to debate in? But, since you claim to be rich, as well as dumb, you will have to start paying for all the tips I have been given you, you Cerberus like, 3 headed bird creature.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 17, 2015, 01:22:42 pm
yes my 2 sentence rants. i used to love doing business with the russians [buying stone tile]. they were never creative enough [smart enough] to accuse me of anything other than exactly what they themselves were up to at that very moment. if i hadn't suspected they were up to something they always filled me in completely.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Rennes-le-Château on September 18, 2015, 12:26:18 am
throughout time ones wealth was directly proportional to their level of birdbrainness. i think you are a sad little pauper.
all can see who got caught by their own arrogance and all the jibber jabber in the world won't make you look smart again.

Dear Parta, or rennes, or whatever else you go by on this site, as I told you long ago, you are truly and idiot and fully ignorant of these issues. So why don't you go and find a roosting place worthy of your feathers. You are an insult to Plato and everything he stood for, not to mention this site and those that are seriously, seeking to know. My bird in hand is the last on this, as I give it to you again. And as I gave you, as Rennes, the last word before, so here you, after this, can rave and rant all you want. 

Hermaphodite, you would not even be worth the effort at sockpuppetry. As you show with your every post, you don't know squat about Plato or Atlantis, try to cover up the fact with silly insults. Your posts have very little to do with Atlantis, in fact, you seem to write them just to hear yourself speak. No one here likes you, they either ignore your posts or engage in virulent arguments with you, started by you!

You are, in short, the reason the word "putz" was invented.  ::)

Keep posting, though, the more people see of you, the more they see what you are all about: a think-skinned little fella that loses composure fairly easily and has to use insults to mask his considerable ignorance. 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 18, 2015, 03:44:51 pm
throughout time ones wealth was directly proportional to their level of birdbrainness. i think you are a sad little pauper.
all can see who got caught by their own arrogance and all the jibber jabber in the world won't make you look smart again.

Dear Parta, or rennes, or whatever else you go by on this site, as I told you long ago, you are truly and idiot and fully ignorant of these issues. So why don't you go and find a roosting place worthy of your feathers. You are an insult to Plato and everything he stood for, not to mention this site and those that are seriously, seeking to know. My bird in hand is the last on this, as I give it to you again. And as I gave you, as Rennes, the last word before, so here you, after this, can rave and rant all you want. 

Hermaphodite, you would not even be worth the effort at sockpuppetry. As you show with your every post, you don't know squat about Plato or Atlantis, try to cover up the fact with silly insults. Your posts have very little to do with Atlantis, in fact, you seem to write them just to hear yourself speak. No one here likes you, they either ignore your posts or engage in virulent arguments with you, started by you!

You are, in short, the reason the word "putz" was invented.  ::)

Keep posting, though, the more people see of you, the more they see what you are all about: a think-skinned little fella that loses composure fairly easily and has to use insults to mask his considerable ignorance. 

I see that my nursery rhymes are not putting you to sleep, and perhaps you need something more fitting for a completely spoiled brat. But now I am shaking and trembling with fear in fighting the dreadful and all powerful, multi-headed bird-brain creature that you are. As if one dumb brain was not enough for you, you grew a couple more heads with the same crap in it; bird-brains. Well, Heracles needed help to slay his multi-headed hydra, and so summed the help of his relative, Iolaus. I too must summon help. But not having friends nor relatives, as you would have it, and perhaps it is so, then I appeal to anyone here to witness my struggle with this mighty, intellectual foe, and its many-headed jargon coming out of all its mouths, as if it were fire from one of those mythical creatures.

Am I far from saying that wisdom and the wise man have no existence, if we liken him to you, Rennes? But you keep saying that I don't know anything about Plato and Atlantis, and that means you must know these very things yourself to know that I don't know, logically. Therefore, instead of ranting, and crowing, why don't you demonstrate your knowledge and my ignorance in these matters. Do you have a pet theory of your own that you have posted here, to show your great skills and knowledge? What is it that you have posted here on this site, or elsewhere, as the author, that anyone would take notice and complement you on your expertise knowledge of Plato and Atlantis? What have you contributed to this site, that is worth mentioning? What have you disproved?

Then let me ask you this awful question, which is this: Can a man know and also not know that which he knows? I would beg you not to press my words to the letter, but to take the meaning of them as I have explained them. And please remember what I have said. Not to think that anyone ever made another think truly, who previously thought falsely. But perhaps your showing everyone here your excellent knowledge and debating skills, will be a sure sign of an impartial judgment, and one, if rendered justly, will convince the both of us. Provided that anyone else will seriously want either to be a spectator or a judge in such a childish contest, as you are wanting to make others believe that I'm a zealous Christian of sort, and no knowledge of Atlantis and Plato, to boot.

And as your talk about me being a putz, and womanizing my username, and being a pauper and losing composure; are you not doing the same? And if I started with it, do you call yourself wise when you have come down to these terms yourself? Is this the sign of a wise man? Not once have you fought tooth for tooth and eye for eye, when it came to the substance of the argument, not once. Although in your mind you consider yourself a great debater and knower of truth.

I do not ask or bid you to answer in what sense you know these things, but only whether in what sense you do not know. Because you have been proven to see that which you do not see. You keep misreading me, and as far as Atlantis, you believe that what you see in the writings, comes directly from the characters in the dialogues, and not from Plato, the author. Basically, you and a few others consider that Plato is just some type of stenographer, which is just recording and writing down the verbal conversations the characters in the dialogues are having. You also make the story of Atlantis to be true on the basis that, according to you, if Plato said it was true, then it must be true. Well, as I asked a while back, if this is your criterion for classing something as true or false, then by the same criterion, all that Plato said was true in the dialogues, according to your criterion. Now you have all the stories and myths introduced in the dialogues as being true. Something that I posed to you, and for which, as usual, you did not provide a response, but only childish smears.

Since you, apparently, are persecuting me and any posts I venture to make on this site, and will not let me off, then let us not leave the argument unfinished.

You forget that you are the one that started to state that I neither know about Atlantis or Plato. Now it is true that I do not know the exactness of the extent of any truth in the myth of Atlantis, nor do I profess to know to the extent of claiming it to be a myth or a truth. That is certain, but what about you, what say you, dear friend? Well, then, be of good cheer; don't just say that I don't know, but do your best to ascertain to us your true nature in this knowledge you say I lack. Can you show us, and whoever misses shall shut up, and shall be donkey, as the boys say in games. In a word, when you suppose anything to be or not to be, or to be in any way partially effected by either, you must look to the consequences in relation to the thing itself, Atlantis, and any other things of Plato; to each of them singly, to more than one, and to all; and so of other things, you must look at them in relation to themselves and to anything else which you suppose either to be or not to be relevant to Plato and Atlantis, if we are to see, perfectly, the real truth. 

I have said enough against your accusations, now prove to us that your pretense of knowledge has not been detected, just as your friend Nikas was found out by mere logic, and a post on this site back many years where an Italian had, long before Nikas, brought forth the theory of Atlantis being possibly tied to Malta. I had enough of your childish games, so therefore, now is the time for you to elaborate; enough now, with childish name calling. And you need not reprise with the same that I resort to them, as I will admit that. But no more, and you do the same. Just knowledge and words of wisdom will do, if you want to make your slandering stick, otherwise we will part, you as a bird-brain, and me as a putz.  Now you and I have come to an understanding when you realize that I did not come on this site to debate anyone, and I rather just exchange ideas, as is the scope of this site, if I'm not mistaken. Just don't anyone make out anyone's ideas more than they are meant. Agreed? If you have no liking for this plan, than you leave my posts alone, and I will do the same for yours, as I proposed to you before.                 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Rennes-le-Château on September 18, 2015, 07:50:43 pm
Big yawn from this one. Hermaphodite, you were the one to start with the name-calling. Thing is, you  can't even debate someone without getting all flustered and resorting to name-calling. I overlooked it the first few times, then I figured, what is the point? You don't know what you are talking about, you are an especially long-winded lout and you go out of the way to insult people each time your thin-skinned veneer feels threatened, which is, apparently, any time someone disagrees with you. Nikas, Sean, Parta - they are all proof of that. In my view, anyone like yourself deserves what is coming to them.

Quote
You forget that you are the one that started to state that I neither know about Atlantis or Plato. Now it is true that I do not know the exactness of the extent of any truth in the myth of Atlantis, nor do I profess to know to the extent of claiming it to be a myth or a truth. That is certain, but what about you, what say you, dear friend?

I think the better question for you is, what do you bring to this website? Because I have yet to see one person here buy into your correlations between Plato and Christianity, most here believe Atlantis was a real place. Plato was a pagan, he did not believe in Revelations or "judgment." Maybe you would be more at home on a website for religious fundamentalists.  ::)


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 20, 2015, 11:17:36 am
Big yawn from this one. Hermaphrodite, you were the one to start with the name-calling. Thing is, you  can't even debate someone without getting all flustered and resorting to name-calling. I overlooked it the first few times, then I figured, what is the point? You don't know what you are talking about, you are an especially long-winded lout and you go out of the way to insult people each time your thin-skinned veneer feels threatened, which is, apparently, any time someone disagrees with you. Nikas, Sean, Parta - they are all proof of that. In my view, anyone like yourself deserves what is coming to them.

Quote
You forget that you are the one that started to state that I neither know about Atlantis or Plato. Now it is true that I do not know the exactness of the extent of any truth in the myth of Atlantis, nor do I profess to know to the extent of claiming it to be a myth or a truth. That is certain, but what about you, what say you, dear friend?

I think the better question for you is, what do you bring to this website? Because I have yet to see one person here buy into your correlations between Plato and Christianity, most here believe Atlantis was a real place. Plato was a pagan, he did not believe in Revelations or "judgment." Maybe you would be more at home on a website for religious fundamentalists.  ::)

Parole, parole, parole. You never produce anything but that. You are a silly bird, but like your cousins, the ostrich and the chicken, which although being birds, cannot fly. And likewise, you, being a bird, cannot sing the tunes you have been asked to produce, repeatedly. Therefore, because I, initially, heard you say that you believe in Atlantis because you believe in Plato, and therefore presumed you to be one that looks to the heavens, and not the deeps of the earth, prematurely, did I consider you someone of an "airy" mind. But, shortly there after, by your responses, I realized my error. Still, I made another error following that one, as I had mistaken you for a bird. But in reality, your soul has already degraded to its lowest constitution possible; you are an oyster, and a citizen of the great Abyss, where Atlantis lies. Therefore you have that deep desire to get back to your dwelling place, Atlantis. But can an oyster, out of water, find its way back?

The race of birds was created by God out of innocent light-minded men, who, although their minds were directed toward heaven, imagined, in their simplicity, that the clearest demonstration of the things above was to be obtained by "sight;" these were remodeled and transformed into birds, and they grew feathers instead of hair. The race of wild pedestrian animals, again, came from those who had no philosophy in any of their thoughts, and never considered at all about the nature of the heavens, because they had ceased to use the courses of the head, but followed the guidance of those parts of the soul which are in the breast. In consequence of these habits of theirs they had their front-legs and their heads resting upon the earth to which they were drawn by natural affinity; and the crowns of their heads were elongated and of all sorts of shapes, into which the courses of the soul were crushed by reason of disuse. And this was the reason why they were created quadrupeds and polypods: God gave the more senseless of them the more support that they might be more attracted to the earth. And the most foolish of them, who trail their bodies entirely upon the ground and have no longer any need of feet, he made without feet to crawl upon the earth. The fourth class were the inhabitants of the water: these were made out of the most entirely senseless and ignorant of all, whom the transformers did not think any longer worthy of pure respiration, because they possessed a soul which was made impure by all sorts of transgression; and instead of the subtle and pure medium of air, they gave them the deep and muddy sea of Atlantis to be their element of respiration; and hence arose the race of fishes and oysters, and other aquatic animals, which have received the most remote habitations as a punishment of their outlandish ignorance.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 20, 2015, 12:35:14 pm
you need to have an assessment done. i would have an air quality engineer in to check for ethylene. if they find none then i would repeat your last post word for word to a therapist.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 20, 2015, 06:48:19 pm
you need to have an assessment done. i would have an air quality engineer in to check for ethylene. if they find none then i would repeat your last post word for word to a therapist.

With which head are you speaking now?

Well as a matter of fact, when I was younger and needing to working for a living, not being wealthy like you, I was a Quality Assurance Specialist for over 40 years (now I'm giving away my age), and I was a qualified multi-commodities expert in Petroleum, Cryogenics, Mechanical, Electronics, and other items. And although I usually did not inspect ethylene, it was a gas  that was used on some of the automatic electronic equipment in the lab, to test those hydrocarbons that I inspected. And once, while waiting on a test result, we had a fire-out of the equipment using the ethylene supply as a burning source, and wow, what a blast it caused. Luckily, I was sitting well far away, reading my Plato, as a matter of fact, as I well remember. But still, the air shock almost knocked my socks off. Anyway, funny that you should mention this substance, ethylene, in reference to the passage of reincarnation and birds, beasts, and oysters, because you will not believe it, but that was actually the page I was on, reading Plato. Therefore, according to you, I need to take Plato with me too, to the therapist. And another thing you will not believe, besides Pindar not being the first on the pillars, or their true location, but, again, what a coincidence, I was actually a substitute for the industrial Hygienist, or the Marine Chemist, when I was operating on a vessel at anchor, or in a foreign port where one was not immediately available, so as to be the one to test the air quality of confined spaces, to assure it had the sufficient quantity of oxygen, and free from other toxic chemical, before allowing anyone to enter. The Same type of warning Plato had at his Academy; Let no one ignorant of Geometry enter this place. Or in your case, "Let no one ignorant of Plato's works enter this site."   


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 20, 2015, 07:53:44 pm
i have but one head and its not up my ar$e like yours is. were you ever prepared to talk about science at all? you weren't prepared to talk about any important texts.

canada is not an easy place to live. my profession was not an easy one and for most it stays that way till they die. the risks i have taken and some loses were not easy. fishing, golf and carshows in florida for the rest of my winters is only fair.



 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 22, 2015, 02:38:13 pm
i have but one head and its not up my ar$e like yours is. were you ever prepared to talk about science at all? you weren't prepared to talk about any important texts.

canada is not an easy place to live. my profession was not an easy one and for most it stays that way till they die. the risks i have taken and some loses were not easy. fishing, golf and carshows in florida for the rest of my winters is only fair.



 


Judging from your fishing skills that you have displayed, you probably never caught anything on your hooks, except, bottom debris, such as coke bottles, which you no doubt cash in for refund of deposit, or lese. As far as golf, all you clubs must be bent and also full of excrement from all that stuff coming out of you, and your "palle" must be of gigantic proportion, judging from all your bragging, and are not flying anywhere off your clubs, accept just laying on the ground, between  your feet. Your golfing handicap must be astronomical, just as much elevated as your ignorance and arrogance are. And as far as the cars hows; how much are the organizers paying you for sweeping up after the events? But if you claim to have time on your hands, dear fellow, don't waste it. Take Socrates' advice, and do not go to Hades below, bereaved of knowledge.   

This is the last advice I will give you.

Follow me then, and I will lead you where you will be happy in life and after death, as the argument shows. And never mind if some one despises you as a fool, and insults you, if he has a mind; let him strike you, by Zeus, and do you be of good cheer, and do not mind the insulting blow, for you will never come to any harm in the practice of virtue, if you are a really good and true man. When we have practiced virtue together, we will apply ourselves to Atlantis, if that seems desirable, or we will advise about whatever else may seem good to us, for we shall be better able to judge then. In our present condition we ought not to give ourselves airs, for even on the most important subjects we are always changing our minds; so utterly stupid are we! Let us, then, take the argument as our guide, which has revealed to us that the best way of life is not to be wealthy and retire in Florida, and to waste our time with all those silly past times you enumerated. Fishing being the only practical one of those which could, with the correct knowledge and experience, used to sustain the body; but just how many coke bottles will fit in your abdomen? The true goal is to practice justice and every virtue in life and death. This way let us go; and in this exhort all men to follow, not in the way to which you trust and in which you exhort me to follow you; for that way, Parta, is nothing worth.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 22, 2015, 03:16:44 pm
you believe people should follow you like a prophet or demi god just because of the crazy ideas you have in your head. i offer people the opportunity to see what science and the texts have to say and judge for themselves. which one of us needs mental help?


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 23, 2015, 04:53:41 pm
you believe people should follow you like a prophet or demi god just because of the crazy ideas you have in your head. i offer people the opportunity to see what science and the texts have to say and judge for themselves. which one of us needs mental help?

You know, people that winter vacation in Florida, and Arizona, and similar places, and come from the north cold climates, are appropriately called by the year-round residents as, "snowbirds." But even northern chickens still fit the term. This is getting tedious for me. You must be one of those really stubborn donkeys. If you promise to disappear I will admit that I'm the one who needs mental help. And in return for your promise I will make one of my own, and I promise to get medical help as soon as I can afford it. But if you want to do a kind act and prove that you are really human, after all, will you please pay for my care, so that I can get immediate help? Otherwise go and make some dinner table proud, and present yourself, feather-less, head-less, feet-less, and adorned with carrots, onions, potatoes, celery, and don't forget to splash yourself with a little garlic, salt and pepper, and then go and make someone a good soup dish by cooking in your own broth. But be sure to defecate first, and clear all that waste inside you.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Critias on September 23, 2015, 05:01:40 pm


..... I will admit that I'm the one who needs mental help..... and I promise to get medical help as soon as I can afford it..... But be sure to defecate first, and clear all that waste inside you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 23, 2015, 05:49:24 pm
you believe people should follow you like a prophet or demi god just because of the crazy ideas you have in your head. i offer people the opportunity to see what science and the texts have to say and judge for themselves. which one of us needs mental help?

You know, people that winter vacation in Florida, and Arizona, and similar places, and come from the north cold climates, are appropriately called by the year-round residents as, "snowbirds." But even northern chickens still fit the term. This is getting tedious for me. You must be one of those really stubborn donkeys. If you promise to disappear I will admit that I'm the one who needs mental help. And in return for your promise I will make one of my own, and I promise to get medical help as soon as I can afford it. But if you want to do a kind act and prove that you are really human, after all, will you please pay for my care, so that I can get immediate help? Otherwise go and make some dinner table proud, and present yourself, feather-less, head-less, feet-less, and adorned with carrots, onions, potatoes, celery, and don't forget to splash yourself with a little garlic, salt and pepper, and then go and make someone a good soup dish by cooking in your own broth. But be sure to defecate first, and clear all that waste inside you.

i am a snowbird but it seemed like the fewer people on the roads in the winter the better. thought that was considerate not cowardly.
if YOU were in canada and opened YOUR mouth in public YOU would have all the free mental healthcare YOU could handle. it iss not my responsibility to get you here but once you do i will be paying for your care.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 23, 2015, 05:56:08 pm


..... I will admit that I'm the one who needs mental help..... and I promise to get medical help as soon as I can afford it..... But be sure to defecate first, and clear all that waste inside you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

passages from the book of sterquilinus


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 24, 2015, 08:44:13 am
you believe people should follow you like a prophet or demi god just because of the crazy ideas you have in your head. i offer people the opportunity to see what science and the texts have to say and judge for themselves. which one of us needs mental help?

You know, people that winter vacation in Florida, and Arizona, and similar places, and come from the north cold climates, are appropriately called by the year-round residents as, "snowbirds." But even northern chickens still fit the term. This is getting tedious for me. You must be one of those really stubborn donkeys. If you promise to disappear I will admit that I'm the one who needs mental help. And in return for your promise I will make one of my own, and I promise to get medical help as soon as I can afford it. But if you want to do a kind act and prove that you are really human, after all, will you please pay for my care, so that I can get immediate help? Otherwise go and make some dinner table proud, and present yourself, feather-less, head-less, feet-less, and adorned with carrots, onions, potatoes, celery, and don't forget to splash yourself with a little garlic, salt and pepper, and then go and make someone a good soup dish by cooking in your own broth. But be sure to defecate first, and clear all that waste inside you.

i am a snowbird but it seemed like the fewer people on the roads in the winter the better. thought that was considerate not cowardly.
if YOU were in canada and opened YOUR mouth in public YOU would have all the free mental healthcare YOU could handle. it iss not my responsibility to get you here but once you do i will be paying for your care.

Are you really over 18 years of age, and do you have your parents permission to be masquerading as an adult on this site?

And if you are, please provide proof of your age.

Still, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I will consider your offer. However, I'm a cautious person, and intolerant of germs, therefore before I accept your kind invitation I would like to know more about you, but not in a particular order. For instance; how ugly are you? how filthy are you and your surroundings, and does your mom clean after you? Why do like to wallow in ignorance? Why do you prefer to live in fantasy versus reality? What is it that drives you to want insults on top of insults? Are you going to pay for my trip? Why do you lie so much about knowing matters and subjects you really do not know? Why do you suffer from an inferiority complex? Why do you inflate yourself on things that you think important? Why do you value money more than wisdom? Why don't you believe in God?

I see that there is another, apparent, new comer, and perhaps another head growing on the feathered Hydra. But tell me Rennes, more importantly, what was that I said to upset you so much, as to have you signup on this site with other usernames for the sole purpose of trying to make a spectacle of me? And for which, initially, using stealth you facetiously requested information on the pillars? Is it my fault that you don't know how to read and understand English? Or is it my fault that you do not know or understand Plato's works, and apparently not even other classical works, such as Aristotle's, Pindar's and Hesiod's, etc? And as a result of your incapacity you have, clearly, made serious errors in assessing the situation, and blaming me for pointing these things out to you. Did I spoil it for you for telling you that Santa Claus is just a story for children? Well, I was wrong in shocking you into reality, therefore go back to your "CLOUD NINE" as the "Temptations" are coming to mind and fit your case of poverty.   


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 24, 2015, 09:20:43 am
i have proven that i know more than you do on any subject you choose. not bad for a child. must be maddening... and as for your self respect... ouch.
you are making a tremendous effort to regain some self respect but you won't get any help from anyone around here.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on September 24, 2015, 11:32:44 am

i have proven that i know more than you do on any subject you choose[/u]

You think you are a great fisher of Men, do you now! You must be one of the ILLUMINATI. May God help us!

Prove it, you Low Down Yankee Liar; Canadian-Floridian, I mean. Meet me inside Grafton's saloon, you hired gunslinger! Your fight is with your own ignorance, and the wise men of the past.

I Wish It Would Rain, as (I know) I'm Losing You because I Can't Get Next To You, but I'm Gonna Make You Love Me because I'm a son of Plato, and Papa Was a Rolling Stone so I wish you a Silent Night all by the "Temptations."

Now go and help Tom Hanks, and play with Leonardo's paintings, to see if you can spot anymore clues to your own stupidity. Oh by the way, you better find another play-ground for your winter migration. Don't you know that if Donald Trump wins the elections, you will not be allowed to enter the USA anymore? Don wants only the smart foreign immigrants to enter the USA, and I have heard that goes for migrating birds, too. Stupid you were born and stupid you will die. Too bad you cannot reincarnate any lower than you already are, as you are as low as a soul can get. But be of good cheer, as you can only go up, but only if God can bring Himself to perform another Galactic size miracle, like the creation of the universe. 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on September 24, 2015, 11:49:29 am

i have proven that i know more than you do on any subject you choose[/u]

You think you are a great fisher of Men, do you now! You must be one of the ILLUMINATI. May God help us!

Prove it, you Low Down Yankee Liar; Canadian-Floridian, I mean. Meet me inside Grafton's saloon, you hired gunslinger! Your fight is with your own ignorance, and the wise men of the past.

I Wish It Would Rain, as (I know) I'm Losing You because I Can't Get Next To You, but I'm Gonna Make You Love Me because I'm a son of Plato, and Papa Was a Rolling Stone so I wish you a Silent Night all by the "Temptations."

Now go and help Tom Hanks, and play with Leonardo's paintings, to see if you can spot anymore clues to your own stupidity. Oh by the way, you better find another play-ground for your winter migration. Don't you know that if Donald Trump wins the elections, you will not be allowed to enter the USA anymore? Don wants only the smart foreign immigrants to enter the USA, and I have heard that goes for migrating birds, too. Stupid you were born and stupid you will die. Too bad you cannot reincarnate any lower than you already are, as you are as low as a soul can get. But be of good cheer, as you can only go up, but only if God can bring Himself to perform another Galactic size miracle, like the creation of the universe. 

i think that your use of "us" is inappropriate and disrespectful to everyone. you are alone and thus you should say "god help me".


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 05, 2015, 11:16:42 am
No poet of the older generation
Would win from us such keen cooperation
In speaking for him in a comic play
As the young man for whom we speak today,
Our poet's worthy of this honor great;
He speaks the truth, he hates the men you hate,
He does not shy from danger like a child
But dares the storm and braves the whirlwind wild.
He says that he's been asked on every side
The reason why he's not till now applied
To have a chorus of his own and seek
Crowns for himself; on this he bid us speak.
He says he wasn't stupid, but he thought!
This job was with more difficulties fraught
Than any other job that mortals do:
Though many court the Muse, she yields to few.
He knew your favorite was a fickle fade;
Look at what old Pindar had to bear of late
When stern imbeciles his noble odes belate.
Flowed o'er the plains in a great flood of praise
Of himself did he praise, chucked others off the stage
And in his mighty uprooting every olive tree,
Pillars, plain, competitors, swirled out to sea.
Such was he when he bloomed. Now, shame on you!
He in his dotage babbles around this site,
But on his misery you take no pity.
Do your duty then and speak to him,
Those whom Pindar understand, please tell him,
Those Herculean pillars on Morocco and Gibraltar stand! 


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 05, 2015, 11:35:27 am
so you say science will never find atlantis and you are sure you can prove it with poorly executed poetry.  do you not see the disconnect? can you talk about science at all? pindar is only irrelevant if science says he is wrong and that isn't happening lately.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 08, 2015, 08:47:58 pm
so you say science will never find atlantis and you are sure you can prove it with poorly executed poetry.  do you not see the disconnect? can you talk about science at all? pindar is only irrelevant if science says he is wrong and that isn't happening lately.

I wish that you, Parta, Rennes, or whomever you are representing, either to ask or answer as you are so inclined; but I would rather have done with poems and odes, if you do not object, and come back to the question about which you were asking at first, and by your help make an end of that. The talk about the poets seems to me like a commonplace entertainment to which a vulgar company have recourse; who, because they are not able to converse or amuse one another, while they are drinking, with the sound of their own voices and conversation, by reason of their stupidity, raise the price of flute-girls in the market, hiring for a great sum the voice of a flute instead of their own breath, to be the medium of intercourse among them: but where the company are real gentlemen and people of education, you will see no flute-girls, nor dancing-girls, nor harp-girls; and they have no nonsense or games, but are contented with one another’s conversation, of which their own voices are the medium, and which they carry on by turns and in an orderly manner, even though they are very liberal in their potations. And a company like this of ours, and men and women such as we profess to be, seekers of Atlantis, do not require the help of another’s voice, or of the poets whom you cannot interrogate about the meaning of what they are saying; people who cite them declaring, some that the poet has one meaning, and others that he has another, and the point which is in dispute can never be decided. And neither can we, truthfully, arrive as to whom was first at one thing or another, as I have stated from the start. This sort of entertainment they decline, and prefer to talk with one another, and put one another to the proof in conversation. And these are the models which I desire that you and I should imitate. Leaving the poets, and keeping to ourselves, let us try the mettle of one another and make proof of the truth in conversation. If you have a mind to ask, I am ready to answer; or if you would rather, do you answer, and give me the opportunity of resuming and completing our unfinished argument.

Now if you, as initially intended, are wanting to vaunt your Zoroastrian expertise, and want to, seriously, connect Plato's Atlantis story to it, as something that inspired him in giving us Atlantis, then stop beating around the bush, as you are the only bird in the brush, and can only flush yourself out, and be prey and preditor all in one, and the slayer of yourself. Further, don't use science as a pretense, if you are going to argue about whether or not Atlantis is a real place or myth. This pretense of yours is only evidence that you contradict yourself, since you have now clearly stated that, according to your better judgment and opinion, which you confuse with "logic," the tale of Atlantis is only an allegory, a long held opinion of men of renown from ancient times, and certainly not one of originality from the abyss of your mind.   

But be forewarned, that although I'm requesting that we leave the ancient poets out of this, I'm emphasizing only those poets that have been credited with having authored many works, but of which we only have but a token of them extant, and of these, many times only fragments of the work itself, and also fragments of other authors' works containing references to these works lost to us. And so, if you intend to use Eastern religions and its influence to ancient Greek thought, especially Plato, I will revert to calling, as witness, Mr. Emerson, who was a most eloquent man, and not only him will be summoned, but other members of Transcendental Club, when necessity calls. And although, if you are really someone "broad" and wealthy in knowledge, it would appear to you that I may be shooting myself in the foot, but I assure that one knowledgeable someone that I mean to profit all of us from them. It is Socrates'/Plato's God that will prove to mankind that the One and Only God, God of all mankind, exists.

Let us be clear. Out of Plato come all things that are still written and debated among men of thought. Great havoc makes he among our originalities. We have reached the mountain from which all these drift boulders were detached. The Bible of the learned for twenty-two hundred years, every brisk young man who says in succession fine things to each reluctant generation,- Boethius, Rabelais, Erasmus, Bruno, Locke, Rousseau, Alfieri, Coleridge,- is some reader of Plato, translating into the vernacular, wittily, his good things. Even the men of grander proportion suffer some deduction from the misfortune (shall I say?) of coming after this exhausting generalizer. St. Augustine, Copernicus, Newton, Behmen, Swedenborg, Goethe, are likewise his debtors and must say after him. For it is fair to credit the broadest generalizer with all the particulars deducible from his thesis.

Plato is philosophy, and philosophy, Plato,- at once the glory and the shame of mankind, since neither Saxon nor Roman have availed to add any idea to his categories. No wife, no children had he, and the thinkers of all civilized nations are his posterity and are tinged with his mind. How many great men Nature is incessantly sending up out of night, to be his men,- Platonists! the Alexandrians, a constellation of genius; the Elizabethans, not less; Sir Thomas More, Henry More, John Hales, John Smith, Lord Bacon, Jeremy Taylor, Ralph Cudworth, Sydenham, Thomas Taylor; Marcilius Ficinus and Picus Mirandola. Calvinism is in his Phaedo: Christianity is in it. Mahometanism draws all its philosophy, in its hand-book of morals, the Akhlak-y-Jalaly, from him. Mysticism finds in Plato all its texts. This citizen of a town in Greece is no villager nor patriot. An Englishman reads and says, "how English!" a German- "how Teutonic!" an Italian- "how Roman and how Greek!" As they say that Helen of Argos had that universal beauty that every body felt related to her, so Plato seems to a reader in New England an American genius. His broad humanity transcends all sectional lines.

In all nations there are minds which incline to dwell in the conception of the fundamental Unity. The raptures of prayer and ecstasy of devotion lose all being in one Being. This tendency finds its highest expression in the religious writings of the East, and chiefly in the Indian Scriptures, in the Vedas, the Bhagavat Geeta, and the Vishnu Purana. Those writings contain little else than this idea, and they rise to pure and sublime strains in celebrating it.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 08, 2015, 09:14:10 pm
as of 2015, king george lll has been confirmed not to have been suffering from porphyria [his medicine made his pee blue] but schizophrenia. the main evidence of this was his incessant rambling.

science will call the place what they want to call the place. properly an early holocene construction built to take advantage of the loess soil, multitude of rivers and treasure house of natural riches. if the romanians want to call it atlantis who cares. if the serbs et al want to call it eden/kikkar makes no difference to me. aristotle said zoroaster lived 5000 years before plato and yima 33 generations before that so i would call the place the mythical homeland of the indo-europeans that is yimas constructions and vourukasa.

don't you feel you are wasting alot of time with those maniacally long responses?


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 08, 2015, 09:18:20 pm
sorry aristotle said 6000 years before plato, 5000 years before troy and then 33 generations before that.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 08, 2015, 11:54:12 pm
sorry aristotle said 6000 years before plato, 5000 years before troy and then 33 generations before that.

So why don't you fly away then. Since you claim to have money, why not travel to those places of the Zoroastrian lands, and give me a break. The desert is pleasantly warn in the winter for snowbirds; much warmer than Florida. Besides, I'm certain that some ISIS members would actually enjoy conversing with you about it, and they, in turn, will relate their version of the Koran to you, and will be apt to have you talk your head off! You do know that the Muslims hold Plato in high regard? So tell them where he got the Atlantis story.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 09, 2015, 12:04:24 am
eranvej is the middle danube basin. too many syrians.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 18, 2015, 08:16:18 pm
eranvej is the middle danube basin. too many syrians.

It's getting to the point
Where I'm no fun anymore
I am sorry
Sometimes it hurts so badly
I must cry out loud
I am lonely
I am yours, you are mine
You are what you are
And you make it hard
Remember what we've said and done and felt
About each other
Oh babe, have mercy
Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now
I am not dreaming.
I am yours, you are mine
You are what you are
And you make it hard
Tearing yourself away from me now
You are free and I am crying
This does not mean I don't love you
I do, that's forever, yes and for always
I am yours, you are mine
You are what you are
And you make it hard
Something inside is telling me that
I've got your secret. Are you still listening?
Fear is the lock, and laughter the key to your heart
And I love you.
I am yours, you are mine, you are what you are
And you make it hard,
And you make it hard
Friday evening, Sunday in the afternoon
What have you got to lose?
Tuesday mornin', please be gone I'm tired of you.
What have you got to lose?
Can I tell it like it is? Help me I'm sufferin'
Listen to me baby-Help me I'm dyin'
It's my heart that's a sufferin', it's a dyin'
That's what I have to lose
I've got an answer
I'm going to fly away
What have I got to lose?
Will you come see me
Thursdays and Saturdays?
What have you got to lose?
Chestnut brown canary
Ruby throated sparrow
Sing a song don't be long
Thrill me to the marrow
Voices of the angels ring around the moonlight
Asking me, said she so free
How can you catch the sparrow?
Lacy, lilting, lady, losing love, lamenting
Change my life, make it right
Be my lady.
Doo doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo doo doo


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 18, 2015, 08:48:30 pm
anyone interested in a 300 pound baldass crazy crossdresser? sounds like ones looking for a date.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 19, 2015, 02:10:51 pm
anyone interested in a 300 pound baldass crazy crossdresser? sounds like ones looking for a date.

What we have here is a failure to communicate! It is only you that I want, and no one else. You are the lost sheep that God asked me to rescue from your total ignorance and incapacity to generate higher and noble thoughts. Currently, you are only just pasturing on weeds and winter grass in the Floridian terrain, always with your head facing down, gorging yourself on terrestrial pleasures. And God wants to make amends for His error in creating you as you are now; king of fools. Therefore, God told me that if I wanted to earn my wings--being an angel without any at this time--I would have to perform this Herculean task on His behalf. Now, I have not been waiting long to get my wings, still, I'm very determined to get them in record time. Therefore I will succeed at any cost, even if I have to come down to hell to get you; you have one "wing" already there.  And don't confuse Angel wings with bird-brain wings, as they are totally different. Angel wings will get one into a higher plain in heaven, while bird-brain wings will get you deeper in "debt," and in lower circles of hell! You are in trouble-deep already. Because when Minos raps his tail around your soul, he will run out of tail before he measures all your stupidity (sins). And therefore, God does not want to dig another lower circle just for you, as He deemed the ninth as low enough for the Devil. Are you boasting to be able to debate and triumph over Lucifer himself? Such arrogance coming from a mere bird-brain; you'd better plead insanity before the court of Minos, as that is your only chance.  And for heaven's sake, don't try to bribe the judge! Otherwise you are going to make my job even harder, and, besides Heracles, I will also need Sampson's help to rescue you. But I cannot promise that we will succeed with all your bird-brain heads, therefore you should shed a few now, before you get there.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 19, 2015, 02:16:05 pm
i understand your bitterness. you thought it would always be this
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/7a0b04d1e586ef49c2ad61a221bd811e/tumblr_nk5lbeFkLs1r81kteo1_r1_500.jpg)

but now its mostly this
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/dee5e103cfa92182fa3ae7a8b79f358d/tumblr_nkem0ryfui1r81kteo1_1280.jpg)

thats what happens when you fly too high or go batshit crazy.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 19, 2015, 03:27:15 pm
i understand your bitterness. you thought it would always be this


but now its mostly this


thats what happens when you fly too high or go bat**** crazy.

Well!, although I did not want to spoil your fun just yet, we have gone far enough with this farce, and I do have serious work to do!

Therefore, as I have prompted you all along, why don't you just wash your dirty laundry in this public forum, and come clean?

Tell them that you have gotten all your nonsense from a particular site; plagiarizing some other idiot again. And that is why you cannot provide any correct answers, or for that matter, in actuality, none. Even those silly old Google images come from that silly site under (mapss); The last King of Atlantis. Prince Eugene my foot! It should be titled, "The Last Fool to have reigned Atlantis- the reason for the submergence of the Island Continent." That idiot master of yours does not even know that, "map," is singular, and that, "maps," is plural. And to designate more than one, pluralizes, with an additional "s" the already plural.

https://shebtiw.wordpress.com/the-sea/the-pillars-of-hercules/ 

So just bugger off, you idiot, as I have already made you out to be! 

In Etruscan, Atlas is written as Malta, only if NIKAS in Etruscan means, IMBECILE: Since you are also dyslectic;  !TOIDI UOY, SAKIN FFO REGGUB TSUJ OS


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 19, 2015, 03:43:59 pm
exactly what piece of text have i plagiarized? all the pictures i've showed come from picassa or originated there. if you check the dates you will find the dates on picassa predate that wordpress site.

who plagiarizes here? continuously? all these songs and any idea you try to pass off as your own? who didn't know the first thing? who spends sooo much time trying to convince themselves that what they don't know doesn't matter... like a true clinical psychotic.

the national geological institute of romania made the atlantis announcement not your wordpress individual. i do not recall prince eugene being mentioned by the ngir at all. so who what is the point of what very clearly your hugest discovery ever.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: Hermocrates on October 19, 2015, 04:26:26 pm
exactly what piece of text have i plagiarized? all the pictures i've showed come from picassa or originated there. if you check the dates you will find the dates on picassa predate that wordpress site.

who plagiarizes here? continuously? all these songs and any idea you try to pass off as your own? who didn't know the first thing? who spends sooo much time trying to convince themselves that what they don't know doesn't matter... like a true clinical psychotic.

the national geological institute of romania made the atlantis announcement not your wordpress individual. i do not recall prince eugene being mentioned by the ngir at all. so who what is the point of what very clearly your hugest discovery ever.

Anyone that may be interested, although I doubt it, can go to this site; https://shebtiw.wordpress.com/ and peruse it, especially the "blogs" section, and also anything else there, which you have plagiarized there and proposed on this site.  And if they have any brains, unlike you, they will see for themselves. So whomever you are, as all I know is that you are a silly clown that forgot to put on his makeup on, and was trying to make others laugh; but only the idiots like yourself, the ones that know nothing of Plato, nor anything really worth knowing in this life. If you had to steal and be caught and punished, you could have at least stolen real gold coins, rather than just plated copper, as the penalty is just the same as if you had stolen real gold. Next time, when you are out of jail, with the "get out of jail" card I gave you, go and steal something valuable, you silly crow!

Lying even you when you were caught with your pants down will do you no good. So long my expert fisherman. You were caught red-handed right from the start. You idiot, bird-brain!

Here is my last song for you, and then the fun is over for good. And I will, this time only, besides the lyrics, include the youtube location, just as you had requested.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=this+and+that+tom+jones+youtube&view=detail&mid=F871456E7D8E2DF3F140F871456E7D8E2DF3F140&FORM=VIRE1

I tried to do a little bit of big time moving
I played the clubs and stayed out late at night
I tried to lose the memory of a lover
When someone said, 'Two wrongs don't make a right'

Well, I had too much of this and that
And this and that is no good
I said I had too much of this and that
And this and that is no good

I tried so hard to really get to understand you
You took advantage of me from the start, oh baby
But now it seems that you have found another
And just like me you're gonna end with a broken heart

Oh no, listen to me
'cause I had too much of this and that
And this and that is no good
I said I had too much baby, of this and that
And this and that is no good

Call me if you're all alone and blue
Say you love me and I'll come running to you
And I will, you know I will do anything for you, oh

'cause I had too much of this and that
And this and that is no good
Listen baby, I had too much honey, of this and that
And this and that is no good, no good

One time
I had too much of this and that
And this and that is no good, no good, no good
I said I had too much baby, of this and that.


Title: Re: Science will never find Atlantis
Post by: parta on October 19, 2015, 04:41:30 pm
i think you need to look up plagiarize in a dictionary. i have said the national geographic institute of romania [mircea ticleanu] announced at sgem2011 that atlantis had been found. i think yimas city has been found. does it say that at shebtiw? too much to read for me.

all i see is that shebtiw borrowed or stole pics then linked to the picassa album. thats an old picassa album and it replaced an older album on flickr. i see shebtiw read ignatious donnelly like i have, the most common bits of sumerian creation myth. egyptian budge and faulkner. pretty much what someone smarter than you would read. is the kikkar mentioned? i have no time to read much.