Atlantis Online

UFOs, Aliens & Future Science => Future Science => Topic started by: HereForNow on August 03, 2007, 05:31:52 am



Title: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 03, 2007, 05:31:52 am
(http://www.thespacereview.com/archive/496a.jpg)

Is Mars really open for business, or will it remain a difficult, mocking utopia, rich in resources and land but too hard to travel to or live on? Most of us already know the rocky history of unmanned Mars exploration and it has not been very inspiring for those of us looking to send people there someday soon. If a rough road leads to the stars, Mars is a good example of how rough that road really is, with only 14 out of 35 missions to date a success. It is a planet that seems to hold many of the elements we need for a long-term human presence but, after five decades of unmanned missions, it still seems a bridge too far. Despite all this, a case can still be made for why the private sector should consider Mars.

If the private sector is to capitalize on Mars from the earliest stages it must start sooner rather than later. There are many nations and possible competitors to think about in the effort to make Mars viable, and, like with any business venture, if the competition gets there first, they can easily corner the market. ESA, China, Russia, and other nations intend on making it to Mars in the next few decades. Businesses would be wise to consider this in respect to Mars as well. Mars will not lay empty of human endeavor indefinitely. We should never take that for granted. There are many plans on how to get to Mars, some ranging from $2-billion one-man shots right up to $500-billion government programs. None of us know with certainty which plan will be used first, but the options are out there for any entrepreneurial businesses to take advantage of what is currently a wide open market.

The Vision for Space Exploration and hopes of getting to Mars in 20 or 30 years would have to survive unscathed through multiple administrations to ultimately succeed, and if history is anything to go by, the situation does not look promising on many fronts.

What plans might some of you have that could contribute to this adventure?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Raven on August 05, 2007, 12:05:19 am
I'm actually not certain how many resources are on Mars, the environment is so inhospitable that it is hard to be sure - that's one of the main reasons for all the failed missions!  Think of it, we aren't even sure if there's water on there yet.  Discover oil on there, though, and you can bet that Mars exploration will go up dramatically.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 05, 2007, 05:07:34 pm
I'm actually not certain how many resources are on Mars, the environment is so inhospitable that it is hard to be sure - that's one of the main reasons for all the failed missions!  Think of it, we aren't even sure if there's water on there yet.  Discover oil on there, though, and you can bet that Mars exploration will go up dramatically.

I won't dispute that! However, we also don't have any evidence that Mars is as inhospitable as NASA said it is.
Even the Moon for that matter.  :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 06, 2007, 06:19:49 pm
NASA is telling the truth with Mars.  In fact the Martian pilot who Cedric Allingham met up with even confirmed that they were living underground.

The high CO2 is a result of a Martian Holocaust tens of thousands of years ago.

It would be more suitable to go to the Mare Cruzium area of the moon or to Retz, Venus if one wanted to bring Earth into the "Federation".


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 06, 2007, 06:22:31 pm
I'm actually not certain how many resources are on Mars, the environment is so inhospitable that it is hard to be sure - that's one of the main reasons for all the failed missions!  Think of it, we aren't even sure if there's water on there yet.  Discover oil on there, though, and you can bet that Mars exploration will go up dramatically.

Exo-humans alike, both Venusian and Martian, are keeping Earth humanity right where we are until we get out under Illuminati dominion.

Our rockets are too polluting of space so that is why we are confined to space station missions.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 06, 2007, 06:27:26 pm
I'm actually not certain how many resources are on Mars, the environment is so inhospitable that it is hard to be sure - that's one of the main reasons for all the failed missions!  Think of it, we aren't even sure if there's water on there yet.  Discover oil on there, though, and you can bet that Mars exploration will go up dramatically.

I won't dispute that! However, we also don't have any evidence that Mars is as inhospitable as NASA said it is.
Even the Moon for that matter.  :)

We need to think Hutchison Effect if we are going to get anywhere in the solar system.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 06, 2007, 08:35:45 pm
I'm actually not certain how many resources are on Mars, the environment is so inhospitable that it is hard to be sure - that's one of the main reasons for all the failed missions!  Think of it, we aren't even sure if there's water on there yet.  Discover oil on there, though, and you can bet that Mars exploration will go up dramatically.

I won't dispute that! However, we also don't have any evidence that Mars is as inhospitable as NASA said it is.
Even the Moon for that matter.  :)

We need to think Hutchison Effect if we are going to get anywhere in the solar system.

Let's not take any credit from TSM either my friend.
As for the H-effect, have you tried to get a hold of him lately?
Very difficult to do. Mark Solice was the old contact to have John E-mail you.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 08, 2007, 12:31:11 pm
Yeah I am relocating from NYS to Florida where business actually thrives.  The Nanny-State Socialists here are seizing power at an alarming rate.

Hopefully TSM will have his patent ducks in a row and then when we go to start the business up in Florida we will actually meet receptive business people.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 08, 2007, 11:10:55 pm
Do you have any of your patents in place for design?
I sure hope you do make it man. I mean that sincerely.

It would be nice to see you on television, actually stickin it to da man.... 8)
Private enterprise is the only thing I can think of to make it happen.
Good luck, volitzer and tell Rob that Harry sends his regaurds...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: 2012 on August 09, 2007, 01:20:58 am
"We need to think Hutchison Effect if we are going to get anywhere in the solar system."

Wasn't the Hutchison Effect unmasled as a hoax?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 09, 2007, 03:34:03 pm
No!!!!!!!   ???


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 12, 2007, 01:16:42 am
Where did the information that it was a hoax come from?

To get in touch with John Hutchison, send him an email at: heffect@infinet.net



PhD Electrical Engineer James Corum co-authored a paper in 1981 with graduate-student Terry Keech where they analyzed how the metric tensor & gravity would be modified for a time-varying electric charge. The calculations that they derived & published suggest that a time-varying electric-charge can produce a 'gravitational repulsion' or negative gravitational-mass.
Ventura has designed an experiment to potentially verify this theory by recording the Hutchison Effect on an active sample using a logging multimeter, and then re-apply the same complex RF signal to the same signal at a later time using a linear-amplifier to match the original amplitude. Thus, while the original effect requires a complex arrangement of RF and high-voltage equipment to produce, it may be reproduced with a very simplistic and well-understood apparatus, verifying that a specific resonant signal is what causes the effect, and not psychokinetic or other causal factors.

(http://www.americanantigravity.com/graphics/hutchison/glass/Hutchison_glass_320_1.jpg)

(http://www.americanantigravity.com/graphics/hutchison/glass/Hutchison_glass_320_3.jpg)

(http://www.americanantigravity.com/graphics/hutchison/glass/Hutchison_glass_320_4.jpg)


John Hutchison and I were in regular contact about 3 years ago in regaurds to his experiments. As I've been informed recently by a friend of his, NASA has actually been showing an active interest in what him and his new right-hand man have been accomplishing. Must have been something good. I haven't been able to contact him directly since.
 :D

Not to stir the hornets nest here, but I will totally agree with Volitzer.
It's not a hoax, and what these experiments mean to the world at this point is even greater then what we can imagine.
I'm sure, that once they find exactly the right frequency to reduplicate the H-effect, someone is going to want to use it for a trip to space. We know they can't be using much more then a 200 amp service to the apartment they work out of. This is also kind of interesting, taking past Nazi anti-gravity experiments into consideration.

FYI-
One more peice of information that is no longer findable that seen about 5 years ago was the staff list involved in the Philadelphia Experiment. Thomas Hutchison, was one of the cheif scientist responsible for the use of a tesla coil in the experiment. Food for thought.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 13, 2007, 03:20:49 pm
 :)  According to Dr. Courtney Brown author of "Cosmic Voyage" , Mars was once a habitabe planet, but lost it’s atmosphere in a near collision with an asteriod that created a “ripple effect” in the atmosphere.  As he describes it, the near miss caused a back and forth wave like motion in the atmosphere, that eventually depleted the already thin atmoshpere and eventually destroyed the life on that planet.  Not to be worried however, because the “grey aliens” came to the rescue of the “martians” (who were humaniod and looked much like us only more pale), and some of them live underground on Mars, while others live inside a mountain in New Mexio. 

Dr. Brown is of course the famous remote viewing expert. But I’m not sure that his information has lent more credibility to that “science” as he’s called it.  I’m not trying to be scarcastic, and I’m not saying he’s right or wrong, either.  Truth is usually stranger than fiction, and I for one believe that the “Face On Mars” is not just a trick of “light and shadow” and that there is indeed a government coverup on the factual images of Cydonia. 

One thing is for sure.  Mars is not exactly a “Plam Beach” today.  But there sure seems to be a renewed interest in getting a manned mission to mars again.  I thought NASA has declared that there was no need to risk peoples lives on “manned missions?”  Just exactly what changed their minds I wonder?  Seems to me it changed shortly after they released the new pictures of the “Face On Mars” that showed it was a natural formation.  Someone correct me if I’m wrong here. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 13, 2007, 04:30:10 pm
There was a Martian Holocaust thousands of years ago.  The Venusians shouls have the most detailed record should we ever make contact.

To Native Americans Mars was known as Huitzepechelli, destroyer of towns and villages.

To ancient Chinese Mars was known as Yin-Ho the fire planet.

The Celtic and Bantu people of Africa have legends of moving preganant women onto discoid craft to escape to Earth and flee a great Martian Holocaust.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 13, 2007, 04:45:12 pm
Well, perhaps then Dr. Brown was correct.  Exactly what was the nature of this Martian holocaust?  And are The Venusians shouls the same Venusians that Sunat Kumara, (the King of the World, an eternally youthful enity from Venusian Lords of Flame) fare from? 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 13, 2007, 06:34:39 pm
No one on Earth knows.

We'd need to see a Venusian or Saturnian Hall of Records.  It has been forgotten from Earth history.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 13, 2007, 06:56:41 pm
Quote
IT WAS EROS URIDES, the real Martian behind the scenes, who dictated the contents of this book through the medium to Mr. [J. L.] Kennon. It was further stated that "The medium was held in trance for short periods only, as the medium must necessarily experience the atmosphere of Mars which is more rarified than that of your Earth." Writes also that the medium seemed to have some difficulty, and at first pain in breathing while in the trance condition. Mr. Kennon also wrote in his foreword of the original book that it was not until January 4, 1920, it was decided to write the book in which the Planet Mars, its people, its form of government, its Art, Industries, Philosophy of life, etc. would for the first time in the history of this world be given.

This is from a little book called The Planet Mars and It's Inhabitants.  It's quite a fun read, and personally, I think it's totally logical that an enlightened society lived this way.  I have quoted before from this article regarding the "power towers".  From the description, they put me in mind of Tesla's Towers, as well as the towers in the background on the right hand side of the Mosaic that was found recently under the ancient baths in Rome.

Quote
On one occasion a short time after the chapter dealing with the transmission of Electro-magnetic energy by wireless was received, I was shown two immense towers on the planet which are used for the purpose of distributing power throughout the planet. The two towers were very close together, probably 100 yards apart and 100 feet high. They resembled two immense round smoke-stacks, such as are common in our factory districts. The tops of the towers were surmounted by oval caps, transparent as if made from glass, and protected by a system of grill work. While I was intently observing the towers there occurred a blinding flash of light simultaneously from the two oval caps. The surrounding country was covered with high trees, and it was impossible for me to observe the base of the two structures.
  Last paragraph, chapter 7.
Tesla's Tower:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/pyramidpower.gif)

Mosaic found in Rome under Trajan's Baths (I think)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ciudadpintadadomusaureanerontrajano.jpg)

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/MosaicCloserUP.jpg)

Artist's rendition of Mosaic:

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ArtistsrenditionofMosaic.jpg)



http://squarecircles.com/books/onlinebooks/otherworlds/mars/planetmars.htm#1.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 13, 2007, 06:58:10 pm
I just thought that rather than opening ANOTHER thread, the theory of Mars at one time being habitable could be interacted with the theory that there are constructed planets.

In Sitchin's books, using the Sumerian Texts as his base, he talks about the planet Mars being a way-station for the ships that came for the gold that was mined here on earth that the home planet needed for purposes of repairing their atmosphere.  This theory would fit with what Hoagland describes as "rooms" instead of "family" dwellings on Mars. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 13, 2007, 08:19:09 pm
Sitchin is right about the Martian layover for the Anunnakis, however this Martian Holocaust happened recently in the last 10,000 years or so.

 :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 13, 2007, 09:42:40 pm
Really Volitzer?  You sound so positive.  Have you been astral travelling?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 13, 2007, 10:21:52 pm
Nah I read a lot of Adamski and Sitchin and whomever else knows about Earth people who have had contact with exo-humans and alien alike.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 14, 2007, 12:10:07 am
Quote
Sitchin is right about the Martian layover for the Anunnakis, however this Martian Holocaust happened recently in the last 10,000 years or so.

Interesting - that Atlantis supposedly sunk about10,000 years ago too.

For what it's worth, I really find Hoagland's site informative and logical.  I was just there reading a few things, and I find he thinks very much like I do on a lot of subjects.  I'm no where near as educated as he is, but the logic train just keeps on chugging and the conclusions he makes, I have arrived at also.  I admit, I jump rather quickly whereas he explains everything in great detail.  Thank goodness for people like him who ARE educated and can think for themselves. 

I keep telling my husband that there are ancient flying machines buried in the sands of Egypt and we'll find them one day (he of course, laughs at me) but just now I was reading on Hoagland's site where he thinks the same thing.  Thoth supposedly buried his under the Sphinx, so why couldn't others be buried out there somewhere as well?  When I first saw those pictures in the tomb at Abydos depicting "flying machines", I immediately thought they must have been something that was considered sacred or "of the gods" else why would it be in a tomb?  Especially a tomb that was built so perfectly.  I thought that the artist had either seen the actual vehicles or definitely saw clear drawings of them.  Maybe Seti did find them buried and built his tomb over top of them.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 14, 2007, 01:07:01 pm
 :)  Ah ha, Qoais!  So then is this to be the new “construct” thread?  Perfect!  I have a great book on Mars with an entire chapter entitled “who terra-formed Mars?”  Now, as for finding that particular book, I’ll need a day or two, so please be patient.  But as memory serves me, the idea was that Mars’ entire surface has been oxidized, (hence the red color).  In the author’s scholarly opinion someone had deliberately terra-formed Mars.  According to him, Mars never did have enough natural gravity to sustain an atmosphere, and by adding enough water and oxygen to the planet, the newly created atmosphere raised the temperature of the planet and made it habitable and pleasant.  But without adding the necessary water to sustain what was naturally lost by the low gravity conditions the planet returned to its normal inhospitable state. 

Now according to him, it was scientifically possible to do it again.  All we’d have to do is deflect enough icy space debris, (comets or the stuff in the belt beyond Pluto), and send it crashing into Mars.  Then a few thermo nuclear explosions to heat up the ice, and Viola! -   A planet fit for human habitation!

So it occurs to me, if it’s been done before, who did it?  Perhaps it was the Atlanteans and we just don’t remember that far back? 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 14, 2007, 08:33:18 pm
Back at the ranch-China to map ‘every inch’ of Moon surface
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2007 | 4:49 | Comments: 7
China aims to chart every inch of the moon’s surface, the chief scientist of the country’s first lunar exploration program said in comments published on Friday. China, which plans to launch a lunar orbiter called ”Chang’e One” in the second half of 2007 to take 3D images, would aim to land an unmanned vehicle on its surface by 2010, official news portal Chinanews.com quoted Ouyang Ziyuan as saying.“Currently, our country’s lunar exploration program is divided into three phases—orbiting the moon, landing on the moon and returning back to Earth,” Ouyang said. The second phase would see an unmanned craft land on the moon to “meticulously” survey a certain area, and the third phase would aim to “bring samples back to earth,” he added.China’s space exploration program has come far since late leader Mao Zedong lamented that China could not even launch a potato into space.

In 2003, it became only the third country after the former Soviet Union and the United States to launch a man into space aboard its own rocket. In October 2005, it sent two men into orbit and plans a space walk by 2008.But China’s space plans have faced increasing international scrutiny amid fears about a potential space arms race with the United States and other powers since it blew up one of its own weather satellites using a ground-based missile in January.

 
 ::)

Now, on the other hand. Here is where our collective resources have not not any of us any justice.



Nasa has launched a spacecraft on a nine-month journey to Mars, where it will dig below the surface for clues to the existence of past or present life. The Phoenix probe lifted off at 0526 EDT (1026 BST) from Cape Canaveral, Florida, atop a Delta II rocket. If everything goes to plan, Phoenix should arrive at Mars in late May 2008. Phoenix was scheduled to launch on Friday, but severe weather conditions prevented fuelling of the rocket's second stage. This left little contingency time in the schedule, forcing Nasa officials to move the launch from Friday to Saturday. The US space agency wants to land the probe on relatively flat terrain at a Martian latitude equivalent to northern Alaska on Earth. On these northern plains, water ice is thought to lie just a few tens of centimetres below the surface, within reach of the lander's 2.4m (7.5ft) robotic arm.

Scientists estimate the ice content of the upper metre of soil in this region could be as high as 50-70%. The mission will aim to shed light not only on the history of this water ice but also on whether the region could support microbial life. Crucial to this question will be tests for complex, carbon-based chemicals (organics) in the soil and signs the ice periodically melts.


Why hasn't private enterprize thought of doing this?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 15, 2007, 01:04:00 pm
 :)  Okay here is the book I read that gives a detailed stradgedy for colonizing the red planet.  It’s called “The Case For Mars” by Robert Zubrin.  He now has a web site at:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~marscase/Home.html (http://spot.colorado.edu/~marscase/Home.html)


Here's who he is from Wikapedia:

Quote
Robert Zubrin is an American aerospace engineer and author, best known for his advocacy of manned Mars exploration. He was the driving force behind Mars Direct—a proposal intended to produce significant reductions in the cost and complexity of such a mission. The key idea was to use the Martian atmosphere to produce oxygen, water, and rocket propellant for the surface stay and return journey. A modified version of the plan was subsequently adopted by NASA as their "design reference mission".
 Terraforming Mars, the Noble Experiment?
Summary (Jul 12, 2004): Mars Society founder, Robert Zubrin, talks about how to terraform the red planet. His engineer's eye reveals his robust plans for not just getting to a new home, but also how to build one from scratch.


Here's a quote on terraforming from this site:

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1074.html (http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1074.html)


Quote
Terraforming Mars, the Noble Experiment?
Interview with Robert Zubrin

As a former Martin-Marietta aerospace engineer, prolific author and founder of the non-profit Mars Society (1998), Robert Zubrin is regarded as the driving force behind the proposed Mars Direct mission to reduce the cost and complexity of interplanetary travel. The flight plan calls for a return journey fueled by rocket propellant harvested in situ, from the martian atmosphere itself.

As described in Zubrin's book, The Case for Mars: The Plan to Settle the Red Planet, the Mars Direct concept eventually became a cornerstone of a frugal 'living off the land' approach to travel in NASA's Design Reference Mission. The Design Reference Mission (DRM) covers Earth launch to Mars landing, Mars cruise to Mars launch, and Earth return. The mission entails sending cargo ahead, docking the crew at the space station, then meeting up with the stashed supplies once on Mars.
"For our generation and many that will follow, Mars is the New World," writes Zubrin. The New York Times Book Review (Dennis Overbye) indicated how such an outline initially was greeted as breaking conventional wisdom about martian mission plans: "Part history, part call to arms, part technical manual, part wishful thinking, The Case for Mars ... lays out an ingenious plan. ......one of the most provocative and hopeful documents I have read about the space program in 20 years."




So private enterprise is "thinking" about it.  My thought here is that there is nothing new under the sun.  And if we can terraform Mars in the future, have "we" or someone humanoid, done it in the past?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 16, 2007, 12:17:27 am
I love the information and yet, I see a serious lack of ambition in the world today.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 16, 2007, 01:09:41 am
Gee - I can't imagine why :D

All that kids do these days is watch TV and play on the computer.  Ask them to do anything physical and you'd think you'd asked them to kill themselves!!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 16, 2007, 09:42:56 am
 ;D  Qoais, you must have children or grandchildren.  I have four, and what you said is SOOOO true, so true!  But to put it in prespective, my father thought that my generation was the laziest generation to ever grace the earth, and that we had no concept of what hard work was.  To him, if you weren’t working up a sweat digging a ditch, you weren’t working. 

I remember a quote that was read to me in high school.  It said that children today were lazy, disrespectful of their elders, and immoral.  Each generation seem to get progressively worse, the quote stated, and “how long could this increasing deprivation go on?”  The quote was one from Plato, LOL.   ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 16, 2007, 09:47:43 am
So true! Back when I was kid, I did things like bike riding, hiking, swimming, and so on.
Longest I have ever been out of work in 20 years was only 2 and a half months. As a result of my ambition levels. Now I work between 12 and 14 hours a day, starting at noon till the wee hours of the morning and wake up ready for more.  :) These kids need to get off them butts and start moving.

My generation is there only hope, because it's the last seriously motivated one that America will know until the change is in place. Like MdSun, I have a big family too, and I will be damned if they are going to sit around the house and do nothing. I'll be cracking the old whip, and telling them how to make better use of time.  ;) Trust me, they don't want me supervising them in something work related.

This forces them to do things like chores and play, because they know if I start assigning them duties that it's going to be a busy day.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 16, 2007, 10:25:53 am
One of my daughters could have been a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon because she is highly intelligent.  Altho we couldn't afford to send her to univesity, she did absolutely nothing to help herself.  After she was married, her husband offered to send her to university and she declined.  Too much trouble.
Basically, our society has bred laziness.  Mommie has to drive the kids everywhere or they won't go.  That same daughter wanted to take figure skating lessons, but she wouldn't walk to the skating rink.  Had there been a David Bowie concert, she'd have been the first one there!
Both girls have told me that they hated it when they came home from school and saw me scrubbing the floors on my hands and knees and standing for hours with a wringer washing machine doing the laundry.  I couldn' believe it.  I LOVED doing those things.  They felt sorry for me!!!!

So - it's a mind set I guess.  There will be those that WILL study and learn and develop terra forming on mars, and there will be those that want to be the first ones there to get in on the ground floor and supposedly make a fortune.  New frontiers and all that.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 16, 2007, 11:26:42 am
 :)  QUOTE OF QOAIS:

Quote
and there will be those that want to be the first ones there to get in on the ground floor and supposedly make a fortune.  New frontiers and all that.


Yes to be sure, i.e. “The Martian Chronicles”, (great story.)    To be sure we want the best for our children, and in the process perhaps we spoil them to the point that they become lazy beyond our intentions.  The technology is spoiling us all for that matter.  Today if the dishwasher breaks, we use paper plates!  My kids argue over which one of them has to get off the couch to bring them the remote control!!

On the flip side of this however is that they have all become so motivated to possess more and more of this technology.  All my kids want jobs and the labor laws forbid them to work until they’re over 16.  Mind you they want to work, not out of ambition, but out of greed, but hey I could say that about myself, LOL. 

Today both men and women work, no one stays home to clean the house or take care of children, and if it weren’t for child labor laws, I think the kids would be out there working, (nothing too physical mind you), just to buy the latest techno-gadget! 

I’m not sure that this qualifies as ambition?  But I can see people going to Mars just because it will be “modern” “technologically advanced” the new “place to be”  ;)





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 16, 2007, 12:26:31 pm
One of my daughters could have been a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon because she is highly intelligent.  Altho we couldn't afford to send her to univesity, she did absolutely nothing to help herself.  After she was married, her husband offered to send her to university and she declined.  Too much trouble.
Basically, our society has bred laziness.  Mommie has to drive the kids everywhere or they won't go.  That same daughter wanted to take figure skating lessons, but she wouldn't walk to the skating rink.  Had there been a David Bowie concert, she'd have been the first one there!
Both girls have told me that they hated it when they came home from school and saw me scrubbing the floors on my hands and knees and standing for hours with a wringer washing machine doing the laundry.  I couldn' believe it.  I LOVED doing those things.  They felt sorry for me!!!!

So - it's a mind set I guess.  There will be those that WILL study and learn and develop terra forming on mars, and there will be those that want to be the first ones there to get in on the ground floor and supposedly make a fortune.  New frontiers and all that.

It all goes back to the Illuminati's liberalism and how they seek to destroy America.

Keep dumbing the kids down generation after generation for the purpose of total control. 

Think of the 60's and 70's icon Adam West as Batman versus today where you have Vin Diesel as Riddick or XXX.   Icons used to be smart, energetic, ambitious and you could learn from them.  Now they are a bunch of user-schmucks who can barely get out a full sentence.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 16, 2007, 01:08:19 pm
 :)  Quoting Volitzer: 

Quote
Icons used to be smart, energetic, ambitious and you could learn from them.  Now they are a bunch of user-schmucks who can barely get out a full sentence.

LMAO: So true, so true!  And what happened to the morality of the Humphry Bogarts?  I guess the character played by Swartzenager in "Total Recall"(the Martian action flick), is what we can expect to find on the future Mars Colony, LOL.  Heaven help the next generation!   ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 16, 2007, 04:42:23 pm
Slaves In Training


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 16, 2007, 08:21:03 pm
Slaves In Training

Interesting that you say that. Were all slaves, that support a self-liquidating system that is already starting to show signs of weakening. Very soon, things like food shortages and financial melt-down will be in headlines everywhere.

Let's make the most of it folks.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 17, 2007, 12:14:20 pm
 :D  Food shortage?  With the price of milk now they’ll be a surplus, LOL.  Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.

Here’s my starting premise:  Suppose we were a technologically advanced civilization, (which we’re getting there, LOL), and you set out to build a human habitat in outer space.  Let’s call it an artificial planet, or small moon, (and yes inevitably the “the Star Wars death star” comes to mind. So let’s start there, save the planet smashing death ray.  Even the “death star” had a problem, in that it, (at least the second one) needed a force shield from the moon of Endor to protect itself.  We haven’t developed energy shields as of yet, so then what would we do to protect the space station from potentially devastating collisions with meteors and asteroids. 

How about if we began by “towing” small meteors and space debris to the space station and piling them around the outside surface.  If we could keep piling them until we had a layer of ‘basically’ rock surrounding the space station as a “collision” shield of inexpensive, readily available material. 

Once the rock debris was, let’s say a mile thick, it would create it’s own gravitational field.  Now we could walk on the surface of this artificial structure without floating away into space.  At the same time we could also walk on the inside of this surface, making the metal inside sphere of the space station a surface with it’s own gravity. 

Of course only one mile thick would not protect us against larger impacts, as we’ve seen on earth, meteor strikes can impact over a mile into the surface, even after the atmosphere has diminished them.  So we keep piling on more space debris to protect our new home. 

If we can accumulate enough space debris to have a few miles of it, then by now, the increased gravitational field will allow for an atmosphere, however thin.  So we begin to create one by melting space ice into water and perhaps frozen nitrogen that may exit in the outer parts of the solar system, given that at least one of the outer planets is composed mostly of it. 

Well we’ve gone this far, so why not continue.  The weight of all those stones is now pressing inward to crush our metal structure which is basically hollow, as far as it’s density is concerned.  The gravitational forces would be pressing to the center of the layer of rock we’ve been building.  Let’s keep piling it on until it’s miles and miles deep.

By now the gravitational pressure in the center of this rock layer is crushing the rocks and compressing them.  As the pressure increases so does the heat.  The heat eventually becomes intense enough to melt the rock into a molten layer in the center of the surrounding sphere of rock that protects our artificial space station. This is yet an even better layer of protection against astral strikes, because the impacting bodies will now hit two different densities of both solid and liquid matter. 

Well at this point why not increase the density of the atmosphere, and add more water to protect most of the surface with yet another liquid layer of protection.  Now asteroid or comet impacts would hit liquid water, then solid rock, then liquid rock, and then solid rock again, before they could reach our space station.  At this point we are fairly safe from any and most all of the kinds of astral impacts, save a collision with another moon or planet. 

And now we have our own little planet that we could plant life on and come up from our space station to hunt or fish or relax on beaches for recreation.  Perhaps some would even elect to live on the surface, although it would not be as safe as the interior of our now well-protected space station.  I purposely left out that we’d need to build a couple of entrances and exits, because the obvious place for this would be at the top and the bottom, or in other words at the poles…and then we now come to a now obvious similarity.

Given the now much popularized theories of the comet strikes and asteroid collisions that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs, wouldn’t a “truly” intelligent species choose to build their fragile structures of civilization inside a planet, provided that that planet were indeed hollow?  When I started to muse about “ultimate” space stations, persistent and “crazy” hollow earth theory was not what was on my mind.  But I arrived there by accident with this thought:

What if the “natural” formation of a planet results in a “bubble” of cosmic material that eventually hardens… inside the “bubble” and outside the “bubble” with a molten layer in the center of the “bubble’s” outer sphere?  Then perhaps we are not the most intelligent species on the planet.  Thus, why would extraterrestrial civilizations choose to communicate with the surface people who are “stupid” enough to live on the unprotected surface, to face destruction, after destruction from the skies above? 

Perhaps the Venusians from the interior of Venus, and the Martians from the interior or Mars, observe us frequently on their way to the interior of the Earth to visit the more advanced beings that inhabit our planet's interior.  Are these the the legendary “ant people” with whom the Hopi Indians lived with to survive the destruction of the three “previous worlds.”   Are these advanced beings the zookeepers, and we’re the preserved species living in a natural habitat on the unprotected surface?  This thought has me wondering.  How about you?  8)


 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 18, 2007, 10:19:17 pm
Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.



Then again private enterprise has drwn up lot's of wonderful visions of these human habitats in space. Computer animated them for documentaries and wah-lah. A plan!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 19, 2007, 01:24:22 am
:D  Food shortage?  With the price of milk now they’ll be a surplus, LOL.  Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.

Here’s my starting premise:  Suppose we were a technologically advanced civilization, (which we’re getting there, LOL), and you set out to build a human habitat in outer space.  Let’s call it an artificial planet, or small moon, (and yes inevitably the “the Star Wars death star” comes to mind. So let’s start there, save the planet smashing death ray.  Even the “death star” had a problem, in that it, (at least the second one) needed a force shield from the moon of Endor to protect itself.  We haven’t developed energy shields as of yet, so then what would we do to protect the space station from potentially devastating collisions with meteors and asteroids.

Just strengthen the natural e-field of the metal alloy of which you build it from.  Venusians use e-fields with the cars on their own planet so should an accident happen the e-fields take the punishment and neither the car nor the humans are affected.  Such technology would eliminate high insurance rates and body shops.  You could runn current through the space station and the e-field would have the repulsory effect of 2 north sided magnets. 

How about if we began by “towing” small meteors and space debris to the space station and piling them around the outside surface.  If we could keep piling them until we had a layer of ‘basically’ rock surrounding the space station as a “collision” shield of inexpensive, readily available material. 

Nah !!!!!

Once the rock debris was, let’s say a mile thick, it would create it’s own gravitational field.  Now we could walk on the surface of this artificial structure without floating away into space.  At the same time we could also walk on the inside of this surface, making the metal inside sphere of the space station a surface with it’s own gravity. 

Of course only one mile thick would not protect us against larger impacts, as we’ve seen on earth, meteor strikes can impact over a mile into the surface, even after the atmosphere has diminished them.  So we keep piling on more space debris to protect our new home. 

If we can accumulate enough space debris to have a few miles of it, then by now, the increased gravitational field will allow for an atmosphere, however thin.  So we begin to create one by melting space ice into water and perhaps frozen nitrogen that may exit in the outer parts of the solar system, given that at least one of the outer planets is composed mostly of it. 

Well we’ve gone this far, so why not continue.  The weight of all those stones is now pressing inward to crush our metal structure which is basically hollow, as far as it’s density is concerned.  The gravitational forces would be pressing to the center of the layer of rock we’ve been building.  Let’s keep piling it on until it’s miles and miles deep.

By now the gravitational pressure in the center of this rock layer is crushing the rocks and compressing them.  As the pressure increases so does the heat.  The heat eventually becomes intense enough to melt the rock into a molten layer in the center of the surrounding sphere of rock that protects our artificial space station. This is yet an even better layer of protection against astral strikes, because the impacting bodies will now hit two different densities of both solid and liquid matter. 

Well at this point why not increase the density of the atmosphere, and add more water to protect most of the surface with yet another liquid layer of protection.  Now asteroid or comet impacts would hit liquid water, then solid rock, then liquid rock, and then solid rock again, before they could reach our space station.  At this point we are fairly safe from any and most all of the kinds of astral impacts, save a collision with another moon or planet. 

And now we have our own little planet that we could plant life on and come up from our space station to hunt or fish or relax on beaches for recreation.  Perhaps some would even elect to live on the surface, although it would not be as safe as the interior of our now well-protected space station.  I purposely left out that we’d need to build a couple of entrances and exits, because the obvious place for this would be at the top and the bottom, or in other words at the poles…and then we now come to a now obvious similarity.

Given the now much popularized theories of the comet strikes and asteroid collisions that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs, wouldn’t a “truly” intelligent species choose to build their fragile structures of civilization inside a planet, provided that that planet were indeed hollow?  When I started to muse about “ultimate” space stations, persistent and “crazy” hollow earth theory was not what was on my mind.  But I arrived there by accident with this thought:

What if the “natural” formation of a planet results in a “bubble” of cosmic material that eventually hardens… inside the “bubble” and outside the “bubble” with a molten layer in the center of the “bubble’s” outer sphere?  Then perhaps we are not the most intelligent species on the planet.  Thus, why would extraterrestrial civilizations choose to communicate with the surface people who are “stupid” enough to live on the unprotected surface, to face destruction, after destruction from the skies above? 

Perhaps the Venusians from the interior of Venus, and the Martians from the interior or Mars, observe us frequently on their way to the interior of the Earth to visit the more advanced beings that inhabit our planet's interior.  Are these the the legendary “ant people” with whom the Hopi Indians lived with to survive the destruction of the three “previous worlds.”   Are these advanced beings the zookeepers, and we’re the preserved species living in a natural habitat on the unprotected surface?  This thought has me wondering.  How about you?  8)

Venusians live on the surface, Martians have to live underground.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 19, 2007, 01:25:52 am

I’m not sure that this qualifies as ambition?  But I can see people going to Mars just because it will be “modern” “technologically advanced” the new “place to be”  ;)


Earth humanity isn't going anywhere until we clean up our act.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 19, 2007, 11:06:19 am
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/ConstructedPlanet.jpg)


I know nothing about space or what goes on out there, or how to pressurize a planet etc.  But I was thinking that since we already have a space station, it could be "enlarged.  It would take quite a number of years of course, but perhaps with robots.........???


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 20, 2007, 01:37:17 am
You know, I love the concept. This design is exactly what is possible. Now, if we had a way to electronically manipulate carbon nanotubes to begin erecting structures like this on a smaller scale to start. There is no telling how that technology could be used to assemble everything. A super computer and space debris with the help of nano-bots to serve as nurse-cells begin to replicate a design that special software fabricates.

Nano-bots are in control of manuvering microscopic bits of material using electomagnetic feilds controlled by radio-frequency waves. Nanotubes begin to reinforce scrap materials from the Earth by gathering them all together. As each of the enforcement portions are brought to together large robots are launched by a satelite and used to guide the larger sections together while sending commands to the nano-bots to fuse them together.

Will it work? 
Have it guys.....
 ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 20, 2007, 02:11:59 am
To manipulate the graphite buckyballs (after they've been mass produced of course) we learn how the ancients moved mega-ton blocks with harmonics ;D  Then we get a choir to sing in the right key, (we'd need several back-up choirs :P) or play a continuous tape which is easier  :D and we'd have a construct in no time ;D

Electronically manipulate?  What's wrong with a remote?  We've got them for just about everything else!  I like the part about replicating.  Saves a lot of man hours!



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on August 20, 2007, 06:35:09 am
*** First of all . . . Shouldnt this be in the SPACE section under MARS ? ? ? Why are we getting all spread out here? The Main Topic is Space/Mars ! Its all Future Science Jack ! "LETS SIMPLIFY" ! ! ! is the Rule of any Art School !   Secondly:  CONSTRUCTS need a section all on its own. The possibility of Mars and the probability of its moon Phobos as Constructs is one thing ! But we have to include all possible known Constructs so far! For example the moon IAPETUS . . . asteroid ALPHA . . . comet HALE BOPP. . . and possibly mother EARTH and her Moon as constructs and then the immense Constructs of the VEDAS? [ ATTENTION ADMINISTRATORS ] : So all Images and Text submitted so far relating to this subject throughout this Forum Must and Should be brought together under one topic.   Past Science? Ancient Science? but not Future Science ! This is something that has already existed and must be examined and explored in this time!       **DnD**   c.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 20, 2007, 09:59:20 am
 :)  QUOTE: 
Quote
*** First of all . . . Shouldnt this be in the SPACE section under MARS ? ? ?


Sorry if I’ve waylaid this thread, ‘D3D.  I was following up on something that Qoais had posted in another tread.  Maybe we should ask an admin about starting a space construct thread?  Bianaca started a new one for my "gold bugs" (a spin off from Vimani's)  Maybe this should be a spin off too.

But Herefornow seems to like this notion, and I’ve fascinated by the idea of nano robots used to construct a space station, or perhaps to enlarge the existing one.  This may seem off topic for Mars, but building such a space station to orbit Mars might be a very good place to start if any private enterprise were to try to colonize the red planet.  Maybe going down to build a martian colony on work days and coming home to an orbiting space station at night would be a better plan, at least until they had something more livable on the surface. 

QUOTE Posted by: Volitzer:


Quote
Venusians live on the surface, Martians have to live underground.
\

Okay, I’m not sure where you’re getting this information or opinion, but I’m intrigued.  As far as the Martians go, I can see why they would choose to live underground.  And Dr. Courtney Brown’s remote viewing experiences would definitely agree with you on this.  But the last time I read anything about the surface of Venus, it was around 900 degrees, was largely hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, and rained sulfuric acid.  Do the Venusians live in domed enclosures, or are they adapted to this kind of harsh environment?




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 10:22:58 am
But Herefornow seems to like this notion, and I’ve fascinated by the idea of nano robots used to construct a space station, or perhaps to enlarge the existing one.  This may seem off topic for Mars, but building such a space station to orbit Mars might be a very good place to start if any private enterprise were to try to colonize the red planet.  Maybe going down to build a martian colony on work days and coming home to an orbiting space station at night would be a better plan, at least until they had something more livable on the surface. 



That is exactly where I was going with the idea. However, the intent is to encourage a constructed space station in orbit around Earth first. Then launch the entire station to Mars. Portions of the station will remain in orbit to serve as a releif center, and warehouse, satelite, ect. Modular sections of the station will actually land on the surface.  ;)

This way, a bunch of people are going to Mars on something that looks like, well a Deathstar.
Sheilding and the rotation of this massive object solves atleast 2 of the problems we've been presented with. And a small crew of about 60 should be able to handle the job nicely.

Ofcourse, it would take an international effort to acheive. I don't see this as impossible, or a fantasy.
We have the technology now, to make a plan like this actually happen.
Even when you think about how your going to power something like this, we have fusion reactors that could use helium 3. (found on the moon) Or seperate extractors using all raw materials to the fullest potential.
Propultion, Ion Drive. Water, hydrogen collectors on surface of this station.

I mean, if they can extract oxygen and hydrogen from space rocks, and even the surface of both the moon and Mars. Then we can do it from an artificial planet like "Space station Exodus". Built entirely by a super computer that is programmed to utilize only the most human friendly procedures in construction, which will also be going with the station to preserve human life.


Private Enterprise is about the only thing wealthy enough, and ambitious enough to even touch an idea like this. Thats why I feel it fits the bill.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 21, 2007, 10:44:37 am
 :)  QOAIS posted a video site in ley lines that reveals that “world banks” are intent on owning and controlling everything.  UNKNOWN and I have both watched the entire two-hour video, and it’s worth the watch if you can get through the beginning.  ::)

If the video message about world banks is correct, private enterprise IS the only place to turn for this type of a project.  The world banks will charge interest on the loans to finance this project and end up owning Mars as well as Earth, LOL..   

Personally I like your idea of sending the entire space station to Mars.  It makes sense to me.  It kind of reminds me of “the Mayflower” quite apropos actually.    ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 01:33:23 pm
Well, without having the problem of having to launch hundreds of rockets from the ground to space is a plus. Second, without endangering human to preform the construction of this station it becomes more practical. Robots can work day and night without sleep, food, or water.

Finally, all you have to do is leave the orbit of Earth to sling shot the station to Mars and re-enter a stable orbit.
This thing will be plenty large enough to hold supplies and it doesn't have to be the only one created.
As far as expence, what will it matter if Earth changes cause economic failure?
I think it could be built for next to nothing if we think of it in terms of survival.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 21, 2007, 02:27:16 pm
 :)  Well your plan makes more sense to me than the one set down in “The Case For Mars” by Robert Zubrin. And he’s a degreed scientist with published works!  But just how do you get a plan like this into the hands of people who can help implement it into a reality?  8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 03:55:44 pm
Well the first thing that any of these ideas need is a good business plan. Second thing they need to do is develope the technology using alternative, low cost materials. If the right investors are able to see the bigger picture in what this kind of technology is capable of accomplishing, more investors will be interested as the stocks in this tech start going up.
Even something like Pyramid City in Japan is a good example of how our space station can be easily designed and constructed.

Manipulating carbon at the cellular level, and telling it what you want it to do is only as tricky as mastering the H-effect and then enhancing it.
This is one of the things that makes a plan like this implementable. Showing them the technology is one of the ways that investors will become more likely to invest.

In theory anyhow. The patent process has to stay out of the loop though until everyone knows about it.
Then, you go through the four steps and then you can invest your own earnings back into the technology that a certain team right here in the forum can assist in developing.
Now one of the things I would love to do is to get Volitzer, TSM, Merlin, and the rest of our tech squad together on this to see what it would take.
 ;)

However, I'm sure that's not going to happen.....
We're probably the only interested parties, LOL.

(http://www.cnrs.fr/cw/en/pres/compress/n384a6b.jpg)
Knotted nanotube fibers (approximate fiber diameter: 10 microns).

(http://www.cnrs.fr/cw/en/pres/compress/n384a6c.jpg)
Diagrammatic representation of a nanotube: cylinder with a graphite structure closed at both ends by a fullerene type cap (containing pentagons).


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 04:14:29 pm
 Short Single Walled Carbon Nanotubes (SWNTs) 90wt% now available for $250 per gram!

 

Short Single Walled Carbon Nanotubes (SWNTs) 60wt% now available for $80 per gram!

Which are actual costs for these materials.

For material on the lost footage of the H-effect, here is a sight that has links and more information on John Hutchison himself.

http://www.americanantigravity.com/hutchison.html

Even more of the technology that would be needed for the project Exodus is already something that our friend John has been into for years.
I've tried several times to contact John to invite him to our forum but he's a busy guy and if we're lucky we might receive an E-mail at the very most.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 04:41:17 pm
:)  Well your plan makes more sense to me than the one set down in “The Case For Mars” by Robert Zubrin. And he’s a degreed scientist with published works!  But just how do you get a plan like this into the hands of people who can help implement it into a reality?  8)
It's actually more Q's Idea. I'm trying trying to figure out a more practical approach to actually building it.  :D
Now, maybe you would like to tell me what you do for a living and then I'll give you three names.  8)
Sometimes it's people just like us who reveil to much, and suddenly the goverment steals the idea.
I mean imagine producing a three dimentional picture on a computer screen, hitting enter and suddenly the formation of geometric shapes of all sizes just construct themselves from something that looks like liquid until it's commanded to become ridgid. And this technology exists already. I just have a very small amount of imagination into this idea.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2007, 04:52:19 pm
I love the idea of bucky balls, and thank you Q.

Again!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 08:50:58 am
What they are attempting to do next is;
A number of new technologies will be required to carry out this pioneering mission. These include the landing system on Mars, the Mars ascent vehicle, the rendezvous system in Mars orbit and the Earth re-entry vehicle or capsule. In principle all of these can be tested in a near-Earth environment except for the final qualification of the rendezvous and docking system, which should preferably be carried out in a Mars orbit. The technology required for this Flagship mission will be developed during a series of technology-driven arrow missions.

Some important factors influencing the design and development of the mission are:

Landing site This may remain open for some time until knowledge of the Martian geochemical, biological and environmtnal characteristics progressively improve, through previous missions to the planet. This means that the spacecraft design will have to be sufficiently robust to cope with a variety of different landing sites that will be selected at a later stage of the programme.

Sample size A soil sample of 500 grammes is being considered in line with the recommendations of the International Mars Exploration Working Group (IMEWG).

Sample collection A miniature drill will be needed to collect samples of Martian soil at a certain depth. Samples will be taken from underneath the upper layer of soil as this is expected to be completely sterile due to the high level of radiation. The level will be high because unlike the Earth’s atmosphere, that on Mars does not filter radiation. Signs of past forms of life will probably not be found on the surface due to the high oxidisation levels, which destroy identifiable bio-signatures.

Sample protection Careful measures will be needed to protect the sample. On the one hand it will be necessary to avoid contamination of Mars by organisms from Earth and on the other, it will be essential to ensure that no Martian organism – if any exist – contaminates the Earth.
If all goes according to plan, this challenging and complex mission could be launched as early as 2011.

How much of this science could be carried out by a larger manned mission in the event, that our giant flying bucky ball could be created in the next three years?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 22, 2007, 09:44:10 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM HEREFOR NOW:

Quote
Now, maybe you would like to tell me what you do for a living and then I'll give you three names. 


LOL, I’m not sure you’d call what I’m doing a living, LOL.  Currently, I’m just trying to survive and support my wife and four kids!  I’m a music teacher, composer, and would be novelist.  I have a strong science background however, and was going to become a chemist, just before I decided to pursue a musical career and attend the Juilliard School of Music, (a financially dumb move, however rewarding).  My days are currently spent at an in-house division of Zerox at the original GE plant in Schenectady, with an account that is scanning all the millions of technical drawings of turbine generators into an electronic database. It’s very boring at work, but I can make my own hours, (allowing me to give private music lessons), and do things online while the system is busy “thinking”.  If I sell my novel or screenplay things will change.  And right now I’m researching for the next novel, both of which are based on the kind of esoteric knowledge we share here at Atlantis Online.  And by the way, (tying this all back into this particular thread), the characters in my adventure story get to visit “The Face On Mars”, LOL.  Just trying to make all this reading about Mars, pay for itself, I guess, LOL.

Now back to the Bucky balls.  Although I’ve tried to keep up by reading magazines like Scientific American, admittedly I’m not quite up on the kind of micro technology you’re talking about here, (although it sounds like the future of chemistry, LOL.)  Is this liquid you’re talking about capable of reproducing the structure of a microscopic Bucky ball by adding raw material that is not structured?  Because that is what is sounds like you’re saying.  Please elaborate a little on this quote:


Quote
imagine producing a three dimentional picture on a computer screen, hitting enter and suddenly the formation of geometric shapes of all sizes just construct themselves from something that looks like liquid until it's commanded to become ridgid. And this technology exists already.


Exactly how does this work?  Got a web site?  Meanwhile I’ll check out that last link about the Hutchison effect, (this I already know something about, but want to know more). 

   




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 10:21:12 am
"The buckyball, being the roundest of round molecules, is also quite resistant to high speed collisions. In fact, the buckyball can withstand slamming into a stainless steel plate at 15,000 mph, merely bouncing back, unharmed. When compressed to 70 percent of its original size, the buckyball becomes more than twice as hard as its cousin, diamond."

So - we don't have to worry about gathering a bunch of space junk to protect our work station.

Strictly speaking, any tube with nanoscale dimensions, but generally used to refer to carbon nanotubes, which are sheets of graphite rolled up to make a tube. A commonly mentioned non-carbon variety is made of boron nitride, another is silicon. These noncarbon nanotubes are most often referred to as nanowires. The dimensions are variable (down to 0.4 nm in diameter) and you can also get nanotubes within nanotubes, leading to a distinction between multi-walled and single-walled nanotubes. Apart from remarkable tensile strength, nanotubes exhibit varying electrical properties (depending on the way the graphite structure spirals around the tube, and other factors, such as doping), and can be superconducting, insulating, semiconducting or conducting (metallic).

So - we don't need a bunch of wire cables all over the place either.  Just have to figure out how to layer the tubes so that the insulating ones are on the very outside, and the very inside, and the conducting ones are in between. 

Sounds a bit like Tesla's theory that one can just stick a rod in the ground and have free electricity.  If you have a generator to make the electricity, then the nanotubes that the construct are made of, would carry the current. 

Nanotubes can be either electrically conductive or semiconductive, depending on their helicity, leading to nanoscale wires and electrical components. These one-dimensional fibers exhibit electrical conductivity as high as copper, thermal conductivity as high as diamond, strength 100 times greater than steel at one sixth the weight, and high strain to failure.

Pictures and audio:

http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/qhall_c98/dekker/


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 22, 2007, 10:41:19 am
 :o  Wow, that’s way cool stuff!  My goodness Qoais, you’re an expert in Egyptian mythology and a science wiz?  You’re as wondrous as these nanotubes.

 But then how practical is the production of this new promising material?  If it costs hundreds per ounce, how practical is it to cover an entire space station with?  And where in do these robots, that Herefornow mentions, come it to play?   :)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 01:23:53 pm
Well if a robot could be made to carry the materials needed to produce these nanowires, it could spin cables into production. From cables, to layers. Or Billions of bucky balls interlocking into a mega-structure.
That eventually becomes one big bucky ball.

As for any liquid, I was thinking more along the lines of a fine powder that looks like a liquid. Trillions of these bucky balls would ressemble a fine powder. How to get them moving electronically or magnetically, I can't answer because I'm not that educated. To fuse them together, this has an answer and I will research it more tonight to better answer the question.

The goal would be to fabricate sheets made from nano sized materials that robots could manufacture and assemble, by electronically manuvering them to form a number of structural and conductive components.
Building from the inside, out.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 02:28:28 pm
Well Sungate, I like to learn all kinds of things, but I'm no expert ;D

As to the cost, I thought graphite was one of the cheapest substances on earth.  But of course, once it's needed for such a specialized purpose, the cost goes thru the roof.  Then you get contractors like the cement companies that give a quote and then use inferior product to increase the profit margin.  And the wheel goes round and round.........

On the other hand, we may have a small problem here:

[edit] Safety issues
See also: Nanotoxicology
Although C60 has been thought in theory to be relatively inert, a presentation given to the American Chemical Society in March 2004 and described in an article in New Scientist on April 3, 2004, suggests the molecule is injurious to organisms. An experiment by Eva Oberdörster at Southern Methodist University, which introduced fullerenes into water at concentrations of 0.5 parts per million, found that largemouth bass suffered a 17-fold increase in cellular damage in the brain tissue after 48 hours. The damage was of the type lipid peroxidation, which is known to impair the functioning of cell membranes. There were also inflammatory changes in the liver and activation of genes related to the making of repair enzymes. These results have been published in "Environmental Health Perspectives" in July 2004.

Pristine C60 can be suspended in water at low concentrations as large clusters often termed nC60. These clusters are spherical clumps of C60 between 250-350 nm in diameter. Thus, nC60 represents a different chemical entity than solutions of C60 in which the fullerenes exist as individual molecules. Recently, results presented at the ACS meeting in Anaheim, CA suggest that nC60 is moderately toxic to water fleas and juvenile largemouth bass at concentrations in water of around 800 ppb. The first study of its kind on marine life, these preliminary results quickly spread across the scientific community. However, the overwhelming evidence of the essential non-toxicity of C60 (not nC60) in previously peer-reviewed articles of C60 and many of its derivatives indicates that these compounds are likely to have little (if any) toxicity, especially at the very low concentration at which it is≈ used (~1-10 µM). [citation needed]

A study published in December 2005 in Biophysical Journal raises a red flag regarding the safety of C60 when dissolved in water. It reports the results of a detailed computer simulation that finds C60 binds to the spirals in DNA molecules in an aqueous environment, causing the DNA to deform, potentially interfering with its biological functions and possibly causing long-term negative side effects in people and other living organisms

Maybe that is why Iapetus is a "dead" star.  Altho I doubt the "star" was submerged in water, but there could be other considerations.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 02:48:24 pm
Well atleast we have a good valid case for what might not work. So the next plan would be to use these materials as sheilding and think of something else that won't endanger human life.

 ;D Nice work though Q.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 03:01:07 pm
Perhaps water buckyballs:

http://www.watercluster.com/


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 03:07:58 pm
Well, it stands to reason that if a thing needs fixing, someone will find a way to do it:

Over the past decade, the development of nanomaterials has progressed rapidly toward their eventual use in products ranging from solar cells to medicines. However, tests of possible toxic effects of these substances on human health and the environment have been slow to get under way. Recently, an experiment raised concern about the soccer-ball-shaped carbon molecules commonly known as buckyballs. Now, other chemists confirm that finding and report an innovation that might disarm potentially toxic buckyballs.

To preempt the same kind of public backlash that genetically modified crops have received, governments and industry are starting to look at nanomaterial toxicity more closely, says Kristen Kulinowski, executive director of Rice University's Center for Biological and Environmental Nanotechnology in Houston. "Over the last year and a half, there's been an enormous upswell in interest and funding for research into the environmental health and safety of nanomaterials," she says.

The subcellular size of these materials endows them with valuable properties but could also permit them to interact with living cells in unanticipated, potentially hazardous ways. For instance, this year, researchers found that buckyballs can damage fish brain cells by disrupting their membranes (SN: 4/3/04, p. 211: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040403/fob1.asp).

To see whether the same effect occurs in human cells, a group of researchers led by Rice University chemist Vicki Colvin exposed lab-grown human liver and skin cells for 48 hours to solutions containing varying concentrations of buckyballs. The team found that a dilute solution—20 parts per billion—could kill half the cells.

"This study really validates our findings," says Eva Oberdörster at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, who conducted the buckyball-toxicity studies in fish.

The Rice researchers extended their experiment by adorning the carbon spheres with simple chemicals, for example, hydroxyl or carboxyl groups. They found that the more decorated the buckyballs, the less toxic they became. In fact, for those buckyballs with the largest number of chemical groups, the concentration needed to kill half the cells was more than 10 million times that required with naked buckyballs.

The Rice team's findings will appear in the Oct. 13 Nano Letters.

The researchers offer a possible explanation for the drop in toxicity. Naked buckyballs aggregate in solution, they note. Those clumpings generate reactive chemicals known as free radicals, which can attack cell membranes. Chemically coated buckyballs didn't clump, and the researchers detected no free radicals in solutions of those molecules.

Further analyses revealed that aggregates of naked buckyballs didn't harm DNA inside the cells, reducing the likelihood that these nanomaterials could be carcinogenic, says team member Christie Sayes.

The buckyball coatings in the Rice experiment might not decrease toxicity in all situations, Oberdörster notes. In the environment, for example, ultraviolet light from the sun might break off the hydroxyl groups, rendering the spheres toxic again. On the other hand, in the body, the coated buckyballs might remain intact and safely serve as drug-delivery vehicles.

The Rice team plans to test the potential toxicity of other nanoscale materials, such as the titanium dioxide nanoparticles that are used in cosmetics and sunscreens, and to investigate whether their toxicity is affected by size and shape.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041002/fob1.asp



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 03:19:10 pm
To get us our supply of product, we could commission "crystal farms" and grow the fullerene crystals ;D  Make the rocky ground a profitable enterprise!

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Crystallilnefullerene.jpg)

Wikipedia has a good article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 04:00:14 pm
Nice! Very, very Nice! Now, for my contribution to the thought.

Tobias Hertel, Robert Walkup, Richard Martel and Phaedon Avouris at IBM's Thomas J. Watson Research Center found that van der Waals forces -- attractive forces among atoms and molecules -- hold Nanotubes firmly against the surfaces they are placed on. Thus the researchers were able to change the Nanotubes' positions and orientations, and to alter their shape, by bending them. They distorted the Nanotubes in various ways using calibrated AFM forces; the strong interaction with the surface then stabilized the distorted Nanotubes. By applying particularly large forces, the researchers were able to cut the Nanotubes. For that to happen, however, the Nanotubes had to be anchored to the surface more firmly than normal, by means of chemical bonds rather than the physical van der Waals forces.

These studies led to the important conclusion that the van der Waals interaction between the Nanotubes and the surfaces on which they rest is itself strong enough to change the shape of Nanotubes. In general, they tend to adapt to the shape of the surface on which they sit by bending and becoming slightly squashed. Those changes can cause the properties of Nanotubes on surfaces to differ from those of perfect Nanotubes, which are straight and have circular cross-sections. This raises the possibility of tailoring Nanotubes' properties by intentionally changing their shapes.

 IBM researchers using an atomic force microscope (AFM), an instrument whose tip can apply accurately measured forces to atoms and molecules, have recently devised a means of changing a nanotube's position, shape and orientation, as well as cutting it.

http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/news.20010425_Carbon_Nanotubes.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 05:26:59 pm
Unlike traditional solar cells, which are made from purified silicon, these cells are made from organic compounds: carbon nanotubes and carbon fullerenes (also known as buckyballs).

Here's how it works. The nanotubes are arranged with the buckyballs in a structure where they compliment each other. When photons of light strike this material, electrons are produced and captured by the buckyballs. The nanotubes act like wires, to extract the electrons, and allow the buckyballs to capture more. Connect it all together and you've got a power source.

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/07/print-buckyball.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 08:58:00 pm
As cosmic material strikes the outer hull of the station, thus power is produced.
And there you have it folks..... Can we build a business plan based on this?
 ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 22, 2007, 09:32:45 pm
I was actually thinking of "solar power" for heat and light and possibly electricity.  Cosmic material striking the outer hull would be repelled by the nanotubes that are 900 times stronger than diamonds. ;D

A business plan in what area?  One where we get people to donate to science so the kinks can be worked out?  Or one that finances the crystal farms?  Or one that invests in making the graphite sheets?  Or one that invests in miniature robot production?  Or.........what?

I think we should get investors to finance a space probe to Iapetus so we can see how it was constructed and use it as a blueprint ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2007, 09:54:19 pm
How about anything that isn't wishful thinking or dreaming.

 :)

Then again, thats how things become realities...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on August 23, 2007, 02:20:07 am
*** Yeah a mission to IAPETUS and ALPHA. Possible Constructs ? Lets Check Em Out? Lets bring an Asteroid into Orbit around Earth . . . mine it . . . hollow it out . . . build on it ? Why do we have to lift any material off the earth to build in Space when the material is already out there floating around? You need A Foundation To Build On ! Nanotubes [composites of plastic ] dont create a Foundation. Its like the skeleton of your house . . . the studs . . . the wiring and plumbing ! But Nanotubes are not the building material? Stone is the Foundation of all Spacecraft from the Past to Eternity ! For in Space Weight is irrelevant and only helps to create its own gravitational field and eventual propulsion systym out of this systym !       ***nD3*   c.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 09:30:11 am
*** Yeah a mission to IAPETUS and ALPHA. Possible Constructs ? Lets Check Em Out? Lets bring an Asteroid into Orbit around Earth . . . mine it . . . hollow it out . . . build on it ? Why do we have to lift any material off the earth to build in Space when the material is already out there floating around? You need A Foundation To Build On ! Nanotubes [composites of plastic ] dont create a Foundation. Its like the skeleton of your house . . . the studs . . . the wiring and plumbing ! But Nanotubes are not the building material? Stone is the Foundation of all Spacecraft from the Past to Eternity ! For in Space Weight is irrelevant and only helps to create its own gravitational field and eventual propulsion systym out of this systym !       ***nD3*   c.

My only concern would be an accidental collision with the moon or planet Earth.
What would happen if we made a mistake?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 23, 2007, 10:11:56 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM QOAIS:

Quote
Cosmic material striking the outer hull would be repelled by the nanotubes that are 900 times stronger than diamonds.


Actually I think the way the physics of this would work in this manner:

No matter how dense and how hard the material on the surface was, the force of any impact would be transferred to the space station.  Although the asteroid or meteor strike would not penetrate the surface protected by the nanotube buckyballs, the impact would send the space flying like a billiard ball struck by the cue ball, LOL.   The impact would also cause an incredible amount of heat that could possibly vaporize even buckyballs, (how heat resistant they are, I’m not aware of.)

Large asteroid and meteor strikes on earth melt the solid rock hundreds of feet below the ground.  It’s only the shear amount of material in the earth’s crust that protects the integrity of the structure of the planet.  Our space station might be better protected by something soft and impact absorbent. 

ANOTHER QUOTE FROM QOAIS:

Quote
Why do we have to lift any material off the earth to build in Space when the material is already out there floating around?


Now it seems to me that this was what I originally suggested, LOL.  No?  In outer space it really doesn’t take much energy to send “weightless” space debris flying off to where every you want it to go.  Stopping it is more of the challenge in space, LOL. 

What we really need is some sort of technology that “eats” raw space debris and “chemically’ reforms the material into a defined structure.  Kind of like the way “Jorel’s crystal” reformed the artic water into Superman’s “Fortress of Solitude” in the 1st Superman the Movie with Christopher Reeves, (if you’ve seen it).   8)




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 10:43:55 am
After doing a little bit of rethinking on this, it seems that several systems of extracting material and energy should be put into place. First, how could we make the skin able to absorb the raw materials/energies?
Next; How can it be made to extract what we need?

I keep seeing this image of a large buckyball shape, inside of still an even larger that is in the largest one.
Materials small enough to pass through and be caught by collectors would be processed and refined.
Other things to large to pass, an on board super computer able to evade or destroy if need be to make it small enough to bounce right off, and even absorbed. I think anything that would be capable of cause serious damage should be trackable and avoidable/shootable. Our computer power will have to be superior to what they use for on-board computers now. We need something that will not only be able to see everything from blue to red. We would need a guidence system that would interact with evasive manuvering. Q has already provided many insightful things to ponder about how bucky balls work. With that in mind, our most outer giant flying bucky ball would have to be used for protection and sensitivity. Perhaps the next one should be absorbent and conductive, and the inner most one should be designed for the soul purpose of protecting human/other life. The entire structure could be a self-sustaining mechanism designed to be the final say in space station technology. The rotation of the station would create a sentrifical force that would act as a kind of artificial gravity combined with the mass of the object ofcourse.

A Robotic nursing mechanism that ressembles robotic spiders could be used to make any upgrades or repairs all over the station automatically by detecting damage that might occur. Even big holes could be repaired with a webbing of layered cables that will be made from nanowires.

Now, let's shoot it full of holes and see what we end up with.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 11:23:40 am
With rotation in mind, what system can we put into place for propultion?
 :)

I'm guessing that we might be without gravity only temporially until we might to our desired speed.
Volitzer? Any ideas?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 12:31:50 pm
Then again, maybe the inner most portion of the station would need to rotate.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 12:38:21 pm
I was actually thinking of "solar power" for heat and light and possibly electricity.  Cosmic material striking the outer hull would be repelled by the nanotubes that are 900 times stronger than diamonds. ;D

A business plan in what area?  One where we get people to donate to science so the kinks can be worked out?  Or one that finances the crystal farms?  Or one that invests in making the graphite sheets?  Or one that invests in miniature robot production?  Or.........what?

I think we should get investors to finance a space probe to Iapetus so we can see how it was constructed and use it as a blueprint ;D


Maybe one of these needed systems for the space station, and a business plan to fund the needed research and developement could be up to several teams of people that want to make the maiden voyage.
Each using a proposed business plan that involves needed materials, and taking on the responsibility for networking with the other teams in progressive developements and distribution of funding for any of the businesses showing financial weakening. In hopes that other networking corperations might be interested in investing in to generate greater overall capital. Assets+Liabilities=Owner Equity/Capital.

 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on August 23, 2007, 01:08:45 pm
Inside stator.

Outside (equator) rotor.

 :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 23, 2007, 02:49:06 pm
ANOTHER QUOTE FROM QOAIS:


Quote
Why do we have to lift any material off the earth to build in Space when the material is already out there floating around?

That was a quote from 3D - not me ;D

I can't remember where I read this, it was recent, that we'd have to create an "energy" pulse in our sphere like the energy the earth puts out.  They create this for the space station workers as apparently they'd die without it.

I guess we'd have to put firstly put together a team to determine exactly what the requirements are for sustaining life for lengthy intervals on a constructed planet.  Once that's figured out, we'd then have to figure out how to incorporate all the needs into our design.  We know we need certain foods on a regular basis for good health, we need so many hours of sunshine as well.  Now I find that we need these "vibrations" or energies that the earth puts out and who knows what else?

We'd need a system for collecting water cause it sure as hell isn't going to rain on our "planet" until we get some atmosphere happening.  I think we would have to do a mock up here on earth first actually, to see what all could and would go wrong.  If there is no gravity, there would have to be pressurized compartments where people can go, there has to be pumps to pump liquids since gravity feed wouldn't work, etc. etc.

The more one considers all that needs doing, the more I think we really should finance a trip to Iapetus.  Reverse engineering sure sounds a lot easier that starting from scratch :D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 08:57:21 pm
Hierarchical Photosynthetic Systems
for Photochemical Energy Conversion:
Natural Photosynthesis

The goal of this program is to identify the mechanisms
responsible for optimization of photochemical energy
conversion in natural photosynthesis, and to use this
information for the development of artificial photochemical
systems with enhanced photochemical energy conversion.
Specifically, this project investigates the correlations
between sequential electron transfer with static and
dynamic structures in natural and artificial systems, and
investigates strategies for linking ultrafast, light-induced,
one-electron transfer to slower, energy-conserving redox
and electrochemical processes in artificial photosynthetic
systems using bio-mimetic, hierarchical molecular
architectures. Novel approaches include the use of
isotopically labeled photosynthetic proteins for analysis of
the structure and function of natural photosynthetic systems,
metal-oxide colloids as bio-mimetic photochemical charge
generators, time-resolved and spin polarized electron
paramagnetic resonance spectroscopies for analysis of
sequential electron transfer and electron donor/acceptor
geometries, time-resolved X-ray absorption spectroscopy
for analysis of metal ion structure and function in photosynthetic
chemistry, and the use of X-ray and neutron scattering
techniques for resolving molecular structure and structural
dynamics of photosynthetic assemblies in disordered media.

http://chemistry.anl.gov/photosynthesis/hierarchical_systems.html

For the sake of a moon sized object, plant life is like gold in space.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 10:43:14 pm
The US Army hopes, within a few years, to deploy a plasma shield – a machine that generates a protective screen of dazzling mid-air explosions – to stun and disorient an enemy.

The device uses a technology known as dynamic pulse detonation (DPD). A short but intense laser pulse creates a ball of plasma, and a second laser pulse generates a supersonic shockwave within the plasma to generate a bright flash and a loud bang.

The Plasma Acoustic Shield System will eventually combine a dynamic pulse detonation laser with a high power speaker for hailing or warning, and a dazzler light source. PASS has already been demonstrated by the system's makers, Stellar Photonics.

"It uses a programmed pattern of rapid plasma events to create a sort of wall of bright lights and reports (bangs) over the coverage area," says Keith Braun of the US Army's Advanced Energy Armaments Systems Division at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey, US, where the system is being tested.

Force delivery
Braun puts the maximum range of the system at around a hundred metres. But he says the PASS laser is unlikely to be used as a weapon, in its current format, since it lacks sufficient power. Unlike other high-power lasers which burn a target, the DPD relies on a shockwave. Braun says it would take several minutes to burn through a piece of paper using the laser.

"It is fair to say that any stunning or disabling of a target individual would require additional force on target," says Braun. "The current state-of-the-art in portable, rugged laser systems is not at the point of sufficient power."

However, he does not rule out the possibility altogether: "This type of capability is at the core of what we eventually expect from the technology."

Indeed, PASS may be the first step towards a man-portable, tuneable laser weapon that could be used in both non-lethal and lethal modes. Stellar Photonics, which has a $2.7 million contract to build PASS , plans to develop smaller and more powerful versions in future.

http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn11723

Plasma sheilding, or even an electromagnetic feild would prevent leathal radiations from killing our crew.
Generating them is up to the experts who stole the research on this.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 10:54:43 pm
Kinetic <p>Multiwalled carbon nanotubes, multiple concentric nanotubes precisely nested within one another, exhibit a striking telescoping property whereby an inner nanotube core may slide, almost without friction, within its outer nanotube shell thus creating an atomically perfect linear or rotational bearing. This is one of the first true examples of molecular nanotechnology, the precise positioning of atoms to create useful machines. Already this property has been utilized to create the world's smallest rotational motor and a nanorheostat. Future applications such as a gigahertz mechanical oscillator are envisioned.

buckypaper: a thin sheet made from nanotubes that are 250 times stronger than steel and 10 times lighter that could be used as a heat sink for chipboards, a backlight for LCD screens or as a faraday cage to protect electrical devices/aeroplanes. <p>chemical nanowires: Carbon nanotubes additionally can also be used to produce nanowires of other chemicals, such as gold or zinc oxide. These nanowires in turn can be used to cast nanotubes of other chemicals, such as gallium nitride. These can have very different properties from CNTs - for example, gallium nitride nanotubes are hydrophilic, while CNTs are hydrophobic, giving them possible uses in organic chemistry that CNTs could not be used for.

computer circuits: A nanotube formed by joining nanotubes of two different diameters end to end can act as a diode, suggesting the possibility of constructing electronic computer circuits entirely out of nanotubes. Because of their good thermal properties, CNTs can also be used to dissipate heat from tiny computer chips. The longest electricity conducting circuit is a fraction of an inch long.(Source: June 2006 National Geographic).

conductive films: A 2005 paper in Science notes that drawing transparent high strength swathes of SWNT is a functional production technique (Zhang et. al., vol. 309, p. 1215). Additionally, Eikos Inc. of Franklin, Massachusetts is developing transparent, electrically conductive films of carbon nanotubes to replace indium tin oxide (ITO) in LCDs, touch screens, and photovoltaic devices. Carbon nanotube films are substantially more mechanically robust than ITO films, making them ideal for high reliability touch screens and flexible displays. Nanotube films show promise for use in displays for computers, cell phones, PDAs, and ATMs.

electric motor brushes: Conductive carbon nanotubes have been used for several years in brushes for commercial electric motors. They replace traditional carbon black, which is mostly impure spherical carbon fullerenes. The nanotubes improve electrical and thermal conductivity because they stretch through the plastic matrix of the brush. This permits the carbon filler to be reduced from 30% down to 3.6%, so that more matrix is present in the brush. Nanotube composite motor brushes are better-lubricated (from the matrix), cooler-running (both from better lubrication and superior thermal conductivity), less brittle (more matrix, and fiber reinforcement), stronger and more accurately moldable (more matrix). Since brushes are a critical failure point in electric motors, and also don't need much material, they became economical before almost any other application.

light bulb filament: alternative to tungsten filaments in incandescent lamps.

magnets: MWNTs coated with magnetite

optical ignition: A layer of 29% iron enriched SWNT is placed on top of a layer of explosive material such as PETN, and can be ignited with a regular camera flash.

solar cells: GE's carbon nanotube diode has a photovoltaic effect. Nanotubes can replace ITO in some solar cells to act as a transparent conductive film in solar cells to allow light to pass to the active layers and generate photocurrent.

superconductor: Nanotubes have been shown to be superconducting at low temperatures.

ultracapacitors: MIT is researching the use of nanotubes bound to the charge plates of capacitors in order to dramatically increase the surface area and therefore energy storage ability.

displays: One use for nanotubes that has already been developed is as extremely fine electron guns, which could be used as miniature cathode ray tubes in thin high-brightness low-energy low-weight displays. This type of display would consist of a group of many tiny CRTs, each providing the electrons to hit the phosphor of one pixel, instead of having one giant CRT whose electrons are aimed using electric and magnetic fields. These displays are known as field emission displays (FEDs).

transistor: developed at Delft, IBM, and NEC.

Chemical
air pollution filter: Future applications of nanotube membranes include filtering carbon dioxide from power plant emissions.

biotech container: Nanotubes can be opened and filled with materials such as biological molecules, raising the possibility of applications in biotechnology.

water filter: Recently nanotube membranes have been developed for use in filtration. This technique can purportedly reduce desalination costs by 75%. The tubes are so thin that small particles (like water molecules) can pass through them, while larger particles (such as the chloride ions in salt) are blocked.

Mechanical
oscillator: fastest known oscillators (> 50 GHz).

liquid flow array: Liquid flows up to five orders of magnitude faster than predicted through array.

slick surface: slicker than Teflon and waterproof.

In electrical circuits
Carbon nanotubes have many properties—from their unique dimensions to an unusual current conduction mechanism—that make them ideal components of electrical circuits. Currently, there is no reliable way to arrange carbon nanotubes into a circuit.

The major hurdles that must be jumped for carbon nanotubes to find prominent places in circuits relate to fabrication difficulties. The production of electrical circuits with carbon nanotubes are very different from the traditional IC fabrication process. The IC fabrication process is somewhat like sculpture - films are deposited onto a wafer and pattern-etched away. Because carbon nanotubes are fundamentally different from films, carbon nanotube circuits can so far not be mass produced.

Researchers sometimes resort to manipulating nanotubes one-by-one with the tip of an atomic force microscope in a painstaking, time-consuming process. Perhaps the best hope is that carbon nanotubes can be grown through a chemical vapor deposition process from patterned catalyst material on a wafer, which serve as growth sites and allow designers to position one end of the nanotube. During the deposition process, an electric field can be applied to direct the growth of the nanotubes, which tend to grow along the field lines from negative to positive polarity. Another way for the self assembly of the carbon nanotube transistors consist in using chemical or biological techniques to place the nanotubes from solution to determinate place on a substrate.

Even if nanotubes could be precisely positioned, there remains the problem that, to this date, engineers have been unable to control the types of nanotubes—metallic, semiconducting, single-walled, multi-walled—produced. A chemical engineering solution is needed if nanotubes are to become feasible for commercial circuits.

As fiber and film
One application for nanotubes that is currently being researched is high tensile strength fibers. Two methods are currently being tested for the manufacture of such fibers. A French team has developed a liquid spun system that involves pulling a fiber of nanotubes from a bath which yields a product that is approximately 60% nanotubes. The other method, which is simpler but produces weaker fibers uses traditional melt-drawn polymer fiber techniques with nanotubes mixed in the polymer. After drawing, the fibers can have the polymer component burned out of them leaving only the nanotube or they can be left as they are.

Ray Baughman's group from the NanoTech Institute at University of Texas at Dallas produced the current toughest material known in mid-2003 by spinning fibers of single wall carbon nanotubes with polyvinyl alcohol. Beating the previous contender, spider silk, by a factor of four, the fibers require 600 J/g to break In comparison, the bullet-resistant fiber Kevlar is 27–33 J/g. In mid-2005 Baughman and co-workers from Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization developed a method for producing transparent carbon nanotube sheets 1/1000th the thickness of a human hair capable of supporting 50,000 times their own mass. In August 2005, Ray Baughman's team managed to develop a fast method to manufacture up to seven meters per minute of nanotube tape. Once washed with ethanol, the ribbon is only 50 nanometers thick; a square kilometer of the material would only weigh 30 kilograms.

In 2004 Alan Windle's group of scientists at the Cambridge-MIT Institute developed a way to make carbon nanotube fiber continuously at the speed of several centimetres per second just as nanotubes are produced. One thread of carbon nanotubes was more than 100 metres long. The resulting fibers are electrically conductive and as strong as ordinary textile threads.

http://www.buckyrules.com/index.php/Main_Page#Electromagnetic


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 11:05:48 pm
Until a few years ago, there were two known forms of pure carbon, graphite and diamond. Then an improbable-seeming third form of carbon was discovered: a hollow cluster of 60 carbon atoms shaped like a soccer ball. Buckminsterfullerene or "buckyballs"--named for the American architect R. Buckminster Fuller, whose geodesic domes had a similar structure--is the roundest, most symmetrical large molecule known. It is exceedingly rugged and very stable, capable of surviving the temperature extremes of outer space. At first, however, the molecule was a mystery wrapped in an enigma. But when a convenient way of making this molecule, also known as C60, was discovered, it set off an explosion of research among chemists, physicists, and materials scientists to uncover the molecule's secrets. Investigators soon discovered a whole family of related molecules, including C70, C84 and other "fullerenes"--clusters as small as C28 and as large as a postulated C240.These unusual molecules turn out to have extraordinary chemical and physical properties.They react with elements from across the periodic table and with the chemical species known as free radicals--key to the polymerization processes widely used in industry--thus opening up the fullerenes to the manipulative magic of organic chemists. When a fullerene is "doped" by inserting just the right amount of potassium or cesium into empty spaces within the crystal, it becomes a superconductor--the best organic superconductor known. More important, because C60 is a relatively simple system, it may help physicists master the still mysterious theory of high-temperature superconductivity. Speculation and some hard work on potential applications began almost immediately after the discovery of buckyballs. Possible applications of interest to industry include optical devices; chemical sensors and chemical separation devices; production of diamonds and carbides as cutting tools or hardening agents; batteries and other electrochemical applications, including hydrogen storage media; drug delivery systems and other medical applications; polymers, such as new plastics; and catalysts. Catalysts, in fact, appear to be a natural application for fullerenes, given their combination of rugged structure and high reactivity. Experiments suggest that fullerenes which incorporate alkali metals possess catalytic properties resembling those of platinum. The C60 molecule can also absorb large numbers of hydrogen atoms--almost one hydrogen for each carbon--without disrupting the buckyball structure. This property suggests that fullerenes may be a better storage medium for hydrogen than metal hydrides, the best current material, and hence possibly a key factor in the development of new batteries and even of non-polluting automobiles based on fuel cells. A thin layer of the C70 fullerene, when deposited on a silicon chip, seems to provide a vastly improved template for growing thin films of diamond. It is too early to make reliable forecasts of commercial potential, although the early indications are that buckyballs may represent a technological bonanza when their properties are fully understood. Yet it is important to note that the discovery of this curious molecule and its cousins was serendipitous, made in the course of fundamental experiments aimed at understanding how long-chain molecules are formed in outer space. It is a strong reminder that fundamental science is often the wellspring of advanced technology in ways that are completely unpredictable.

http://www.3rd1000.com/bucky/bucky.htm

If your willing to do the reading there is a ton of very positive resulting information that does encourage consideration.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 23, 2007, 11:12:53 pm
A major undertaking in artificial gravity research is being prepared at the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB) at Galveston, overseen by NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas.

Starting next year at UTMB, a corps of individuals will partake in bed rest studies that reproduce the effects of weightlessness, with half that group also rotated once a day on a centrifuge.

The new centrifuge has been built for NASA by Wyle Laboratories, headquartered in El Segundo, California, for use in studying the effects of artificial gravity as a countermeasure to the negative effects of long-term microgravity on the human body. That newly-built centrifuge has recently been installed at UTMB. "It's a really beautiful device," Young said.

Young is co-investigator for the work, teamed with William Paloski, principal scientist, in the Human Adaptation and Countermeasures Office at the NASA Johnson Space Center.

The NASA-sponsored research is divided into two phases. The first phase is using the short radius centrifuge -- which has a radius of 10 feet (three meters) radius to support NASA's Artificial Gravity Pilot Study. A second phase will include significant enhancements to the centrifuge design to provide support for a multinational artificial gravity project that would involve Germany and Russia, Young added.

The Artificial Gravity Project Pilot Study involves test subjects being placed in a six degree head-down bed-rest position which simulates the effects of microgravity on a human body. The test subjects are then positioned in the short radius centrifuge and subjected up to 2.5 Gs at their feet to simulate a gravity environment.

"As far as I'm concerned," Young concluded, "the purpose of all these studies is not to show how to use artificial gravity. Rather, it is to determine whether or not artificial gravity is an acceptable solution."

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/artificial_gravity_041125.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 25, 2007, 08:37:48 am
It is a lot of reading below this post to cover, however it's all based on what facts have been found in the related science.  :) It makes what were doing feisible. If nothing else, discovery channels could make a computer generated image for a movie showing the idea.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 25, 2007, 10:29:23 am
Hey while were at it we can give our robot civil rights too....   >:(

LOL
Sorry, I can't stand the decisions this country makes sometimes.
Grrrr


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 25, 2007, 10:38:47 am
Geez, imagine all the money spent on these machines.  Private enterprise could never match the government money.  I wonder what carnival ride will be developed from this new technology ;D ;D  Most of the spectacular carnival rides we have now were based on testing done for astronauts and pilots.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 25, 2007, 11:21:34 am
I think that if they do use these technologies to make roller-coasters, that they can implement electromagnetic boost for launching our robots into space.  :o

Ah-ha!
The robots from there could be fitted with anti-gravity technology to continue upwards into space.
Without gravity, the boost could launch them from here to the moon easily.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 27, 2007, 12:39:54 am
Just a reminder that Mars will be within sighting distance tomorrow night, if one is inclined to be up and about around midnight. (That's Pacific Mountain time I think)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 27, 2007, 04:48:09 am
Est. Time would be around 8 pm then, right? I have always loved Mars.  :)


Anyhow, American/Canadian private enterprise was able to launch humans into space and safely return them to Earth. Now we have Japan and China in a heated competition
to land an unmanned mission on the moon.

Yahoo.com News....
With Asia's biggest powers set to launch their first unmanned lunar missions — possibly as early as next month — the countdown has begun in the hottest space race since the United States beat the Soviet Union to the moon nearly four decades ago.


Back at the ranch-
Nanotechnology could of course be utilized in the construction/composition of the ships structural design as well as its outer hull.    Compare the below article with the eyewitness accounts of the Roswell incident, note the similarities of the materials described by the eyewitnesses during the incident and that of modern nanotechnology. 
   
Japan's space agency said last week that its SELENE lunar satellite is on track for a Sept. 13 launch, following years of delay as engineers struggled to fix mechanical problems.

China, meanwhile, is rumored to be planning a September blastoff for its Chang'e 1 probe, but is coy as to the date.

The Chinese satellite and its Changzheng 3 rocket have passed all tests, and construction of the launch pad is finished, according to the National Space Administration's Web site. Last month, China's minister of defense technology told CCTV that all was ready for a launch "by the end of the year."

Officials have tried to play down the importance of beating each other off the pad, but their regional rivalry is never far below the surface.

"I don't want to make this an issue of win or lose. But I believe whoever launches first, Japan's mission is technologically superior," said Yasunori Motogawa, an executive at JAXA, Japan's space agency. "We'll see which mission leads to the scientific breakthroughs."

China's military-run space program has taken a great leap forward in recent years, and the country sent shock waves through the region in 2003, when it became the first Asian country to put its own astronauts into space.

China also blasted an old satellite into oblivion with a land-based anti-satellite missile, the first such test ever conducted by any nation, including the United States and Russia.

But Japan is right behind China.




I wonder how Japanese or chinese people would veiw our space station's plan?
 8) If America & Canada can't do it, we could always look to Asia for some assistance in regaurds to potential investors. I know that private enterprise could never match the united states in funding, but international enterprise might.

Besides, I have always loved meeting people from other countries.
Before my Job at Blair left Erie, and returned to Warren PA.
I worked side by side with African, Russian, Bosnian, and Albanian refugees.
Awesome work ethics, and the people themselves were just beautiful in personality and philosophy. Some of the ladies during the holidays they celebrated would bring traditionally prepared dishes to work to share with everyone. I was in my glory atleast once a month. Bosnian Pita, or kabobs, russian deserts, Albanian home-made bread, and so on. Cheese pizza was our contribution and was a very popular item with the exceptions of Russians who eat way healthier foods then probably most of us.
They would snack on water and fruit.

Collectively, we were an intence working machine that managed to accomplish the impossible everyday! Literally.......100,000 individual items of clothing processed, inspected, and warehoused/ or shipped. 2 shifts @ 319 people. Do the math, and it sounds impossible but it was done.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 28, 2007, 02:44:45 pm
So Qoais, have you looked up anything on John Hutchison?

A friend of mine explained something to me that could very well do the job of launching robots into space without rocket technology. Before I attempt to explain it the way he did. You really should investigate the science of the wild self-taught scientist from Vancouver. I also e-mailed him a link direct to this topic. I'm hoping he looks at it atleast.  LOL


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 28, 2007, 03:12:34 pm
Hmmmm Thanks to TSM, here is a woderful link Q.

Terrible, horrible things can be done to this millimeters-thick patch of shimmering material crafted by chemists at NanoSonic in Blacksburg, Virginia. Twist it, stretch it double, fry it to 200°C, douse it with jet fuel—the stuff survives. After the torment, it snaps like rubber back to its original shape, all the while conducting electricity like solid metal. “Any other material would lose its conductivity,” says Jennifer Hoyt Lalli, NanoSonic’s director of nanocomposites.

The abused substance is called Metal Rubber, and, according to NanoSonic, its particular properties make it unique in the world of material chemistry. As a result, the company’s small office has been flooded with calls from Fortune 500 companies and government agencies eager to test Metal Rubber’s use in everything from artificial muscles to smart clothes to shape-shifting airplane wings.

At this stage, however, NanoSonic is busy meeting the demand for its 12-inch-by-12-inch samples, which take custom-built robots up to three days to create. That’s speedy, if you consider that Metal Rubber, a product of nanotechnology, must be fabricated molecule by molecule.

The manufacturing process, called electrostatic self-assembly, starts with two buckets of water-based solutions—one filled with positively charged metallic ions, the other with oppositely charged elastic polymers. The robot dips a charged substrate (glass, for example) alternately from one bucket to the next. The dipping slowly builds up tight, organized layers of molecules, bonded firmly by opposing charges. Afterward the substrate is removed, leaving a freestanding sheet of Metal Rubber.

With investor interest booming, Metal Rubber could make its commercial debut within a year or so. Although shape-shifting aircraft wings and sensory robotic gloves are on the horizon, Metal Rubber will probably appear first in more humble, practical roles. Abuse-resistant flexible circuits and wires, for instance, could allow you to do terrible, horrible things to your portable electronics—consequence-free.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/f30c0b4511b84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

One more bit of help with this idea, as a friend explained.
Gravity is a result of sub-charged particles both positive (protette) and negative (electrette)  1 electron has zillions of omni snf think just how many electrons every object has.

You can use electrons to run motors to overcome gravity but once the electron flow is shut off the electrette/protette attraction takes over and slows everything to a halt.



Eager Investors! And all the while, we sit here talking about how to get funding.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 28, 2007, 07:51:30 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Kepler-solar-system-2.png/275px-Kepler-solar-system-2.png)

You have all seen this I'm assuming.
An example of sacred geometry. However looking at it, I see a model of an even more enlightening idea about design.
(http://goldennumber.net/images/buckyball.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 28, 2007, 10:03:09 pm
Gee, bucky balls within bucky balls.  This is what I figure Iapetus looks like on the inside.  Sacred geometry you say?  What's so sacred about a bucky ball?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2007, 03:49:07 pm
Gee, bucky balls within bucky balls.  This is what I figure Iapetus looks like on the inside.  Sacred geometry you say?  What's so sacred about a bucky ball?

That fact that until they were discovered, we had no clue for one. Second I would say the geometry involved. These were naturally made, yet geometrically shaped. What is more sacred then nature?  ;)
The Shimizu TRY 2004 Mega-City Pyramid is a proposed project for construction of a massive pyramid over Tokyo Bay in Japan. The structure would be 12 times higher than the Great Pyramid at Giza, and would house 750,000 people. If built, it will be the largest man-made structure on Earth. The structure would be 2,004 meters (6,575 feet) high and would answer Tokyo's increasing lack of space.

The proposed structure is so large that it cannot be built with currently available materials, due to their weight. The design relies on the future availability of super-strong lightweight materials based on carbon nanotubes.



(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Try2004.gif)


Look at a possible product of this technology we've been discussing.
And then we have this little project involving the Trans-Atlantic Tunnel.
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby4EhV6JG5gkB2A6jzbkF/SIG=12av78qhp/EXP=1185130657/**http%3A//www.yunasville.com/img/122005/transatlantic.JPG)

I'm just thinking inspiring thoughts ofcourse. Thing is, everything we know today was usually considered to be impossible until someone actually did it.

Even the nano-cables manufactured by robots that ressemble spiders is one of the proposed ideas for building the Mega-City Pyramid by Japanese Engineers. Research it.
This is why I think it's possible, and very likely that someone is going to eventually design a giant flying bucky ball to serve as long-term space traveling vehical, complete with human habitats.

I've posted the best information I could find (and then some) on current projects that were remotely close to what might/could be part of the design, and habitat for long durations. Right down to artificial photosynthesis in living plants and beyond. You mentioning a bucky ball, sparked a great idea for future science. LOL
Cheers! Q, your great fun to speculate with. Thank you for being so inspiring to my/and everyone's imaginations.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 29, 2007, 11:39:07 pm
 :-[  This is me, bowing  :)

Quote
Even the nano-cables manufactured by robots that ressemble spiders is one of the proposed ideas for building the Mega-City Pyramid by Japanese Engineers. Research it.


I did.  Where do you think I got the idea?  ;D

Fabulous pictures.  I watched a show on TV one night, that was all about this super-structure in Japan and that's where I learned that graphite nanotubes were being considered for use.  the design of this building is totally incredible.  It would sit out in the water on a little spit of land, and every square inch would be used for a purpose.  They discussed waste disposal, fresh air, sunlight, travelling within the structure, etc. etc.  Totally awesome.  The only thing I didn't like about it, was that it was right out there where the first tsunami coming in would hit it broadside.

Did you happen to see Mars the other night?  I didn't.  My sister didn't either and she lives up-country where it was supposedly the best spot for viewing.  Oh well. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2007, 05:22:22 am
LOL, See we were on the same page then.....

 :)

I didn't get to see it either. (Mars)
Fell asleep.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2007, 03:29:43 pm
What I would really love to do is to try making some of that so called Metal rubber that has investors interests. It descibes in quick detail how to make it on the link I posted earlier on. We all seem to agree that this has to be the material we're looking for to make these future building designs.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 30, 2007, 10:00:08 pm
Sounds complicated and high tech to me.  Have to have those little robot thingys to do the dipping :D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 31, 2007, 09:57:34 am
 :)  Trans-Atlantic tunnel, eh?  Safe from plane crashes, but not terrorists.  And since the Atlantic is the most volcanically active place on earth, (not the more publicised Pacific Ring of Fire), I'm not sure I want to take a ride on that.  Think I'll stick to the plane, LOL. 8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 31, 2007, 07:05:36 pm
:)  Trans-Atlantic tunnel, eh?  Safe from plane crashes, but not terrorists.  And since the Atlantic is the most volcanically active place on earth, (not the more publicised Pacific Ring of Fire), I'm not sure I want to take a ride on that.  Think I'll stick to the plane, LOL. 8)


Hmm I never thought of that. LOL
Maybe something less pointless is better. A trans-continental mag-lev system would certainly be more traditional.
The whole mag-lev technology would be interesting to use for launching small aerodynamic pods. What velocity would be needed to escape Earth's gravity at a net weight of 167 lbs.? The "spiders" themselves could be made out the metal rubber which seems to adjust well to extremes. Hot, cold, and I'm guessing safe from radiation.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 01, 2007, 02:55:53 pm
 :)  Happy Labor Day Week-end folks...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 02, 2007, 04:35:35 pm
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby57lKttGi10A.EWjzbkF/SIG=12ml0qjt4/EXP=1188854885/**http%3A//www.eyeonstarwars.com/trilogy/vehicle/images/death_star.jpg)

Now you have this for a very inspiring idea. Then:

(http://www.3dchem.com/imagesofmolecules/c60.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/C60a.png)
Can you see a potential design difference that would actually enhance the entire structural integrity. As for launching robots:
(http://lifeboat.com/images/electromagnetic.launcher.jpg)

 ;D

Or launching from South America using an under-ground rail that would incline unto a tower half the height of a mountain.
 (http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/03/maglev.launches/story.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 03, 2007, 07:37:27 pm
Making materials and robots that self-assemble

Self-assembly and tissue engineering are about copying nature at a more basic level -- how things grow and form. Self-assembly is a broad concept that promises to enable molecular-sized machines, robots that build themselves, and ways of growing replacement parts for humans.

Self-assembly is a key strategy for nanotechnology because it promises to make it easier to construct things at the size-scale of molecules. It is also a key strategy in building machines at the visible scale that repair and reconfigure themselves. And tissue engineering, which involves guiding nature in growing replacement parts for humans, could become a significant part of the medical tool kit in the next decade.

Nanowires are poised to become a fundamental building block of important technologies like computer chips and chemical sensors. Scientists have gotten good at growing nanowires; the main barrier to their widespread use is finding ways to control them so they can be arranged and positioned in bulk to enable practical manufacturing methods.

Making good on an old promise

Videoconferencing is a decades-old, seemingly simple idea that has struggled to live up to its potential. Advances in computer vision, projectors and screens promise to realize the dream of making videoconferencing a common and relatively lifelike experience.

Computer Vision

Advances in computer vision and image processing enable a pair of different areas: making machines that see as well as humans do, and making machines that see in ways humans can't.

In the realm of seeing in ways that humans can't, a camera that can pull off a classic magic trick -- reading a playing card facing away from the camera -- has advanced efforts aimed at collecting all of the visual information about a scene by sensing light scattered off objects within it.

The project, in addition to enabling the impressive card trick, combines a digital camera and a digital projector to show a scene from the point of view of the projector as well as that of the camera. The advances are a step toward using a camera to collect enough information to create views of a scene from any angle under any lighting condition. (Camera sees behind objects, TRN June 1/8, 2005)

Another advance gives computers the relatively simple ability -- for humans -- to glance at a desk top and recognize the printed documents lying on it. Combining this with computers' traditional strong suit of file management results in a system that can answer questions like Where is the third quarter budget report? with the information that the report is in the right hand pile four pages down. (Video organizes paper, TRN January 12/19, 2005)

Any needed repairs to humans could be made using these technologies in space.
Advances computing could even use electrostatic emitters to manipulate DNA to reassemble vital organs
with the help of nano-sized nurse cells injected into the blood.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 03, 2007, 07:50:36 pm
A pair of clean energy advances are also worthy of mention. A spray-on material that harvests infrared light could lead to cheap solar cells that can be painted onto surfaces. And titanium dioxide nanotubes that serve as a catalyst for extracting hydrogen from water using sunlight could make a clean method of generating hydrogen fuel more practical.



One more thing on the subject that makes our inner most structure more then practical in use.
Self-Assembly

Self-assembly is among the most common processes in the natural world. In the context of technology, self-assembly is the practice of harnessing natural forces to cause objects to assemble themselves into useful configurations.

The champion of self-assembly is DNA, the molecule that encodes the instructions for making the proteins that control life's processes. Researchers have been using DNA to self-assemble various structures and devices for several years.

In a recent project, scientists made short strands of artificial DNA spontaneously assemble into a fractal pattern known as a Sierpinski triangle. The work demonstrated that theoretically possible to program DNA to carry out any type of computation and nanoscale fabrication. (Programmed DNA forms fractal, TRN April 6/13, 2005)

A related development that deserves mention is a DNA machine that links molecules, opening a route to making sophisticated materials molecule-by-molecule.

Related to the notion of self-assembly are machines that reproduce, reconfigure and repair themselves. In a significant milestone, researchers developed simple modular robots that reproduce themselves. The robots consist of cubes that can rotate on a diagonal axis and attach to each other. Given a supply of the cubes in the right places, a machine can assemble a copy of itself, which in turn can go on to assemble another copy, which in turn can assemble another... (Machine reproduces itself, TRN May 18/25, 2005)

Tissue Engineering

A long-standing dream of biotechnology researchers is the ability to grow replacement organs. One of the main challenges to growing replacement organs is finding ways to get blood vessels to form inside the tissue before it is placed inside the body.

Researchers have brought tissue engineering a significant step forward with a method for growing muscle tissue that contains blood vessels. They also showed that tissue grown using the method survives better in mice and rats than tissue formed using previous techniques.

The key to the breakthrough was seeding several types of cells on a three-dimensional scaffold to form skeletal muscle tissue. (Cell combo yields blood vessels, TRN June 29/July 6, 2005)

Cells also feature prominently in a biochip development that deserves mention: a sensor that measures changes in the size of cells, including human cancer cells and bacteria, in order to quickly gauge the cells' reactions to changes in their environment like anticancer drugs.

A new shape-shifting material also deserves mention. It could bring about stents and sutures that automatically undo themselves when immersed in water.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 03, 2007, 07:52:19 pm
Now, how feisible is it too build now?
 :)

I will be looking to research more possibilities on this. In Fact;
Dipping the positively charged cotton into the negatively charged silver nanoparticle solution resulted in the particles clinging to the cotton fibers.

Silver possesses natural antibacterial qualities that are strengthened at the nanoscale, thus giving Ong's dress the ability to deactivate many harmful bacteria and viruses. The silver infusion also reduces the need to wash the garment, since it destroys bacteria, and the small size of the particles prevents soiling and stains.

The denim jacket includes a hood, sleeves and pockets with soft, gray tweed cotton embedded with palladium nanoparticles, about 5-10 nanometers in length. To create the material, Dong placed negatively charged palladium crystals onto positively charged cotton fibers.
http://www.physorg.com/news97384337.html

This list of things these materials can do is an ever growing industrial dream.
Any company out there that is willing to capitalize on these possibilities could stand to eventually become a fortune 500 company. Then the funding for major projects is available.
Research as many possible businesses that could stand to gain by using alternative technologies like the ones we have been discussing here. I have a list of 9 so far that would make a great business plan to present to potential investors. The idea is to know your approach, and look for the no's first.
Eventually someone will say yes, and then you have a product.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 04, 2007, 08:17:40 am
 :) 
Quote
Silver possesses natural antibacterial qualities that are strengthened at the nanoscale,

And we use gold in all our circuits.  Maybe this is why gold and silver have been the most valued metals since time immorable.   ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 04, 2007, 04:00:39 pm
:) 
Quote
Silver possesses natural antibacterial qualities that are strengthened at the nanoscale,

And we use gold in all our circuits.  Maybe this is why gold and silver have been the most valued metals since time immorable.   ;)

Now with that in mind, think of the many different things we could be doing for living.  ;)
I love to build homes and run cnc lathe. However, I have always wanted to learn more about what it really takes to put something in space. This thread if anything, may yet teach us something about what it would actually take.
I'm hoping anyway. Besides, I haven't seen any other international plans to do anything besides **** our planet of it's human element. One of the reasons I think this is so interesting is because of how possible it may actually be to really do it.

I surely couldn't fund something like this. Yet if someone out there does have the means to it, then I would encourage them to atleast consider our collective input on this whole thing. Mean time, I will see what else would be required to begin a private enterprise commited to getting to Mars. As well as staying on topic!
 :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 04, 2007, 07:56:49 pm
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2005/10/051015092708.jpg)
Biomimetic systems that are composed of rigid polymers orfilaments and crosslinking molecules can be used to assemble filamentnetworks and bundles. The bundles represent 'nanoropes' and exhibitmaterial properties that are primarily determined by the number ofplaited filaments. Scientists at the Max Planck Institute of Colloidsand Interfaces in Potsdam, Germany have now shown that this assembly offilaments into bundles is prevented by the thermal motion of thefilaments, unless the crosslinker concentration exceeds a certainthreshold value. The latter value depends on the number of filaments,but remains finite in the limit of a large filament number. As thecrosslinker concentration is lowered, the bundles may segregate intosmall sub-bundles, or undergo abrupt unbinding transitions.

Biological cells aremechanically stable because they contain actin filaments andmicrotubules that form networks and bundles. These filamentarchitectures are determined and controlled by crosslinking proteins,which have two sticky ends that bind to different filaments. In orderto understand the underlying forces and to optimise the mechanicalproperties of these architectures, one must study biomimetic modelsystems that are solely composed of filaments and crosslinkingproteins. One important example is the assembly of several filamentsinto thick bundles or 'nanoropes' that are more rigid, and sustain alarger external load, than single filaments.

The assembly offilaments by molecular crosslinkers is disturbed by the thermal motionof the filaments. Scientists at the Max Planck Institute of Colloidsand Interfaces have now shown that this thermal motion preventsfilament assembly unless the crosslinker concentration exceeds acertain threshold value. The latter value depends on the filamentrigidity, on the binding energy of the crosslinkers, and on thetemperature. Furthermore, the threshold value decreases as the number Nof filaments within the bundle is increased, but remains finite in thelimit of large N.

Snapshots of filament bundles as observed incomputer simulations are displayed in Fig. 1. The snapshot in Figure1(a) shows a loose bundle for a crosslinker concentration only slightlyabove the threshold value. The simulations also reveal that thesebundles do not always reach their equilibrium shape, but oftensegregate into sub-bundles containing typically five filaments as shownin Figure 1(b). This bundle morphology differs strongly from the fullyequilibrated bundle shape as shown in Figure 1(c) for the same system.Which of the two morphologies is attained depends on the initialarrangement of the filaments and on the kinetics of the assemblyprocess.

Biomimetic systems, consisting of solutions of actinfilaments and crosslinking proteins, have also been studiedexperimentally by several research groups. The available experimentaldata is consistent with the new theory based on the interplay ofmolecular crosslinkers and thermal motion. In particular, there is someexperimental evidence for the threshold concentration of crosslinkersand the sudden onset of filament bundle formation above thisconcentration, but systematic experimental studies remain to be donethat explore the dependence on the filament number N.

Apart fromrepresenting important structural elements, filament bundles can alsoprovide strong pushing forces. These pushing forces arise from thedirected growth of the filaments by the addition of molecular buildingblocks. One important problem is to understand the dependence of thesepushing forces on the number of filaments within the bundle.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 04, 2007, 08:07:29 pm
Now the question that seems to haunt me is;
How do you take something the is 1,000 times smaller then a human hair, and turn it into 1/2 inch thick,
sheets @ 12x12 ft. square? (144 sq. ft.)
At a rate of about 12 a day?
For that matter, structural supports that are rounded, and at least 24 inch OD?
6- 4in. cables? Self assembled into supports, creating these supports that become one peice.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 04, 2007, 09:23:07 pm
Research promising revolution in speed and security of information technology is awarded with £4.4m by the Government's main science funding agency, the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPRSC). According to the news release by University of Cambridge, Research aims to develop supercomputer based on nanostructures also expected to discover new laws of physics.

The new supercomputers will work on the principle alien to current engineering community. Team of scientists from Universities department of physics at cavendish laboratory wants to develop a new generation of tiny semiconductors. This semiconductors will be developed on a nanoscale; probably smallest electronic structures ever. These Nanostructures will be the main component computer chips enabling communication of information faster than ever before. These Supercomputers based on Nanostructures will be called 'Quantum Computers'.

Professor Sir Michael Pepper, who is Principal Investigator on the four-year project and head of the Semiconductor Physics Group at the Cavendish, said: "We are not talking about speeding up reactions by a factor of two or three, but by a factor of billions! Currently computing operations happen in sequence. With the new technology they will happen in parallel."

Other investigators in the team at the Cavendish Laboratory include Professor David Ritchie, Professor Charles Smith, Dr Crispin Barnes, Dr Chris Ford, Dr Geb Jones, and Dr Kalaricad Thomas, who are joined by Professor Michael Kelly in the Department of Engineering.

"The main applications for the new quantum computers will initially be enormous databases and security," said Professor Pepper. "Beyond that, quantum technology will impact on everyone's lives, but we are not yet sure how. This work will bring about a fusion of technology with the most fundamental theory of nature - the laws of quantum mechanics. We anticipate finding new types of behaviour in physics when dimensions become extremely small.

"It is hard to say just what the full implications of this work are, in a way that we did not understand the full impact of computers when scientists in Cambridge first worked on them in the 1940s. I hope that the research will contribute to new industries yet to be born."

Imagine a network of six of these computers that reach a level of A.I. as if it were, or living as we can it.  ;D
All though, I pray that they evolve beyond war and destruction.
Then again, the evil as it is often thought of is man's creation as well.
Man is also known as a destroyer. Will man's creation even today, ever be more then another barrel of oil to a gallon of blood?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 05, 2007, 10:08:04 am
 :) 
Quote
Man is also known as a destroyer. Will man's creation even today, ever be more then another barrel of oil to a gallon of blood?


To paraphrase Captain Kirk from a Star Trek episode:  “We are a killer race.  But we can choose not to kill today.”  Supposedly we are God’s latest creation.  And so we are like my signature quote: “As above so below”.  There “was” a war in heaven, and the good angels threw the evil angels out of heaven.  And so this same war between good and evil rages in each and every one of us.  When we choose not to kill today, the good forces in us are winning that war.  Will our creation ever be more then another barrel of oil to a gallon of blood… well that depends to which one of us you are addressing. Collectively I think the outcome of that war will be on earth just as it was in heaven…. “as above, so below”   ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 05, 2007, 04:08:36 pm
And so this same war between good and evil rages in each and every one of us.  When we choose not to kill today, the good forces in us are winning that war.  Will our creation ever be more then another barrel of oil to a gallon of blood… well that depends to which one of us you are addressing. Collectively I think the outcome of that war will be on earth just as it was in heaven…. “as above, so below”

 8)
But, thats what I thought was happening already....
Eventually we can adjust, to a much less complicated path.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 05, 2007, 09:05:11 pm
First "Molecules to Robots" Effort 
The Tufts team represents the first major effort to design a truly soft-bodied locomoting robot with the workspace capabilities similar to those of a living animal. While other groups around the world are applying biomimetic approaches to engineering design, most focus on narrow areas within this field. 
"This represents a wonderfully rich and novel collaboration that takes a comprehensive 'molecules to robots' approach to the use of soft materials," notes Linda M. Abriola, dean of the Tufts School of Engineering. 
Work will focus on four primary areas: Control systems for soft-bodied robots, biomimetic and bionic materials, robot design and construction, and development and application of research-based platform technologies. 
Caterpillars and Silkworms 
The Keck grant will provide the team with specialized equipment for use with soft materials and biomechanics experiments, according to Trimmer, whose work with caterpillars provides insights on how to build the world's first soft-bodied robot (http://ase.tufts.edu/biology/faculty/trimmer/locomotion.html). Trimmer, a neurobiologist, has been studying the nervous system and biology since 1990 through grants from the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. His goal has been to better understand how the creatures can control their fluid movements using a simple brain and how they can move so flexibly without any joints. He hopes to adapt his caterpillar research to this new project using the expertise of Tufts engineers. 
Kaplan, whose laboratory focuses on biopolymer engineering (http://ase.tufts.edu/biomedical/faculty-staff/kaplan.asp) , has already uncovered the secret of how spiders and silkworms are able to spin webs and cocoons made of incredibly strong yet flexible fibers. More recently, his team applied genetic engineering and nanotechnology to create a "fusion protein" that for the first time combined the toughness of spider silk with the intricate structure of silica. Kaplan notes that there has been tremendous progress in the development and use of soft materials in devices ranging from keyboards to toys. "However, it is very hard to make soft devices that move around and can be precisely controlled," he says. "This is the fundamental reason why robots currently move like robots instead of lifelike animals." 
The new robots developed at Tufts will be continuously deformable and capable of collapsing and crumpling into small volumes. They will have capabilities that are not currently available in single machines including climbing textured surfaces and irregular objects, crawling along ropes and wires, or burrowing into complex confined spaces. "Soft-bodied robots could make many dangerous surgeries much safer and less painful," Trimmer adds. "They could also be used by NASA to repair space stations by reaching places that astronauts can't, perform more complicated tasks in industry that require flexibility of movement, help in hazardous environments like nuclear reactors and landmine detection, and squeeze more efficiently into tight spaces." 
In addition to Trimmer and Kaplan, Assistant Professors Robert White, mechanical engineering, and Sameer Sonkusale, electrical and computer engineering, will supervise projects in the Tufts Microfabrication Laboratory. Associate Professor Luis Dorfmann, civil and environmental engineering, and Visiting Assistant Professor Gary Leisk, mechanical engineering, will supervise the material testing and modeling parts of the project, and Assistant Professor Valencia Joyner, electrical and computer engineering and Sonkusale will direct the design and production of sensors and soft material integrated circuits. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 05, 2007, 09:11:49 pm
 ;)

The most startling breakthroughs in nanotechnology are owned by only a small handful of companies -- companies whose earnings are now poised for rapid expansion.  Your returns from nanotech stocks could easily exceed those of the telecom and e-commerce boom of the late 1990s -- without the meltdown that followed.

You could earn many times your investment over the next few years as nanotechnology penetrates every aspect of manufacturing and materials science.  Thousands of investors certainly will.

I have spent much of the past decade researching and writing about emerging technologies -- including nanotechnology.

I truly believe nanotechnology is the fastest way to increase your wealth over the next few years, Discover which companies are fast becoming the giants in the nanotech sector -- and to get in ahead of the crowd.

As interest in nanotechnology stocks soars in the coming months, there will be many new nanotech stocks offered to the public.

This is one of the other ways that the very same technology we've been discussing is just one more way this is a self-sustaining project that could certainly one day be a reality.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 06, 2007, 02:34:50 pm
 :)  We've talked about robots and nanotechnology.  But what we need to help build this space station are nano robots.  If we only had little guys that could take raw space debris and reform it into what we need to build the space station, then maybe it could be done economically. 

Lets say we tow a metalic metorite pice of space debris, (as many metorites are made of iron), and then poured a few ounces of nano-robots on it.  Then the robots would reform the molecules of iorn into a preprogramed shape of metal for use in the space station. 

Then if this nanotechnology cost $10,000 an ounce, so what!  That kind of "substance" would be worth more than it's weight in gold!

Or is this too far out?   8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 06:10:29 pm
 :o Now, hauling in debris is a good idea. I won't knock the possibilities ever.
In fact, I like that idea alot and if it were to all happen I'm sure that would be one of the implemented plans. Thing is, we still have all this waste material here on earth.  ;)

The percentage of energy per megawatt output required to be bled off a plant's output to power the re-carbonization process turns out to be very low. One conceptualized process used only 0.4% of the output of a normalized power plant to power the entire process. This is clearly a cost that is absorbable or subsidizable. Granting tax credits for installation of CO2 re-carbonization machinery would most likely sail through Congress and be signed by a President from either party.  ::)

Now how do we turn CO2 into something safe and usable?
 :-\

Smart materials and products: Here, materials and products capable of relatively complex behavior due to the incorporation of nanocomputers and nanomachines. Also used for products having some ability to respond to the environment.

To see how nanomachines could be used to clean up pollution, imagine a device made of smart materials and roughly resembling a tree, once it has been delivered and unfolded. Above ground are solar-collecting panels; below ground, a branching system of rootlike tubes reaches a certain distance into the soil. By extending into a toxic waste dump, these rootlike structures could soak up toxic chemicals, using energy from the solar collectors to convert them into harmless compounds. Rootlike structures extending down into the water table could do the same cleanup job in polluted aquifers.

Cleansing the Atmosphere
Most atmospheric pollutants are quickly washed out by rain (turning them into soil- and water-pollution problems), but some air pollutants are longer lasting. Among these are the chlorine compounds attacking the ozone layer that protects the Earth from excessive ultraviolet radiation. Since 1975, observers have recorded growing holes in the ozone layer: at the South Pole, the hole can reach as far as the tips of South America, Africa, and Australia. Loss of this protection subjects people to an increased risk of skin cancer and has unknown effects on ecosystems. The new technology base will be able to stop the increase in ozone-destroying compounds, but the effects would linger for years. How might this problem be reversed more rapidly?

Thus far, we've talked about nanotechnology in the laboratory, in manufacturing plants, and in products for direct human use. Molecular manufacturing can also make products that will perform some useful temporary function when tossed out into the environment. Getting rid of ozone-destroying pollutants high in the stratosphere is one example. There may be simpler approaches, without the sophistication of nanotechnology, but here is one that would work to cleanse the stratosphere of chlorine: Make huge numbers of balloons, each the size of a grain of pollen and light enough to float up into the ozone layer. In each, place a small solar-power plant, a molecular-processing plant, and a microscopic grain of sodium. The processing plant collects chlorine-containing compounds and separates out the chlorine. Combining this with the sodium makes sodium chloride-ordinary salt. When the sodium is gone, the balloon collapses and falls. Eventually, a grain of salt and a biodegradable speck fall to Earth, usually at sea. The stratosphere is soon clean.

A larger problem (with a ground-based solution) is climatic change caused by rising carbon dioxide (CO2) levels. Global warming, expected by most climatologists and probably under way today, is caused by changes in the composition of Earth's atmosphere. The sun shines on the Earth, warming it. The Earth radiates heat back into space, cooling. The rate at which it cools depends on how transparent the atmosphere is to the radiation of heat. The tendency of the atmosphere to hold heat, to block thermal radiation from escaping into space, causes what is called the "greenhouse effect." Several gases contribute to this, but CO2 presents the most massive problem. Fossil fuels and deforestation both contribute. Before the new technology base arrives, something like 300 billion tons of excess CO2 will likely have been added to the atmosphere.

Small greenhouses can help reverse the global greenhouse effect. By permitting more efficient agriculture, molecular manufacturing can free land for reforestation, helping to repair the devastation wrought by hungry people. Growing forests absorb CO2.

If reforestation is not fast enough, inexpensive solar energy can be applied to remove CO2 directly, producing oxygen and glossy graphite pebbles. Painting the world's roads with solar cells would yield about four trillion watts of power, enough to remove CO2 at a rate of 10 billion tons per year. Temporarily planting one-tenth of U.S. farm acreage with a solar cell "crop" would provide enough energy to remove 300 billion tons in five years; winds would distribute the benefits worldwide. The twentieth century insult to Earth's atmosphere can be reversed by less than a decade of twenty-first century repair work. Ecosystems damaged in the meantime are another matter.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on September 06, 2007, 07:43:23 pm
Iron?  You mean that stuff that rusts really fast ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 07:44:45 pm
Orbital Waste
The space near Earth is being polluted with small orbiting projectiles, some as small as a pin. Most of the debris is floating fragments of discarded rocket stages, but it also includes gloves and cameras dropped by astronauts. This is not a problem for life on Earth, but it is a problem as life begins its historic spread beyond Earth—the first great expansion since the greening of the continents, long ago.

Orbiting objects travel much faster than rifle bullets, and energy increases as the square of speed. Small fragments of debris in space can do tremendous damage to a spacecraft, and worse—their impact on an spacecraft can blast loose yet more debris. Each fragment is potentially deadly to a spacefaring human crossing its path. Today, the tiny fraction of space that is near Earth is increasingly cluttered.

This litter needs to be picked up. With molecular manufacturing, it will be possible to build small spacecraft able to maneuver from orbit to orbit in space, picking up one piece of debris after another. Small spacecraft are needed, since it makes no sense to send a shuttle after a scrap of metal the size of a postage stamp. With these devices, we can clean the skies and keep them hospitable to life.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 08:03:13 pm
Iron?  You mean that stuff that rusts really fast ;D

I think we might be on the part of a start up for experimenting with ideas towards building a "working", business plan.
LOL As if....

Funding would probably come from the production of electricity, recycling CO2, and making fusion reactors that would break down refuse in land fills, and clean water from sewage.
 ;D

The private Enterprise part is already well under way.
Now, what will we want to accomplish in a 3 year mission while we're on Mars?
 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 09:15:21 pm
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2006/03/060329084704.jpg)


Han and his colleagues are in the midst of ongoing research into the structure and properties of cerium oxide nanotubes. As part of this, they have devised a method to synthesize cerium oxide nanotubes of high quality. First, they allow the compounds cerium nitrate and ammonia hydroxide to chemically react. Initially, this reaction forms "one-dimensional" nanostructures, such as rods and sheets, made of the intermediate product cerium hydroxide. The intermediate product is then quickly cooled to zero degrees Celsius, which freezes those structures into place. By letting the chemical reaction proceed over a long period of time, a process called "aging," the hydrogen is eventually removed from the intermediate product and a large quantity of the desired end product -- cerium oxide nanotubes -- is formed.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 09:18:42 pm
Carbon is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol C and atomic number 6. Carbon occurs in all organic life and is the basis of organic chemistry. This nonmetal also has the interesting chemical property of being able to bond with itself and a wide variety of other elements, forming nearly 10 million known compounds.
 :)


The abundance of carbon in the universe, along with the unusual polymer-forming ability of carbon-based compounds at the common temperatures encountered on Earth, make this element the basis of the chemistry of all known life.

The name "carbon" comes from Latin language carbo, coal. In some Romance languages, the word can refer both to the element and to coal.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 09:25:22 pm

Nanotube Manipulation.


On the bottom we show another example of how a nanotube can be manipulated to form complex shapes: the 6 frames are a series of AFM images of a nanotube (orange) on a silicon substrate (blue). Not all steps are shown. The AFM tip is used to create the Greek letter "theta" from a 2.5 micron long nanotube.
(http://www.research.ibm.com/nanoscience/a_Manip_theta2.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2007, 09:37:33 pm
Off Topic:

Imagine nanoprobes inside of latex paint that could be electronically manipulated to actually change the pigments to any color. A touch screen is positioned in a panel on the wall of a home. It would be used as a climate control/wall & ceiling color control in one.

Britannica gives this explanation for pigments in all types of paint. -
Pigments are insoluble and are applied not as solutions but as finely ground solid particles mixed with a liquid. In general, the same pigments are employed in oil- and water-based paints, printing inks, and plastics. Pigments may be organic (i.e., contain carbon) or inorganic. …



 :) Hmmm


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 07, 2007, 02:43:54 pm
 :)  I was watching the "Science Channel" last night, and some researchers were given a grant for promising research in the the field of future space travel. 

There are grants for this kind of thing!

HERE'S A QUOTE FROM:

http://code210.gsfc.nasa.gov/grants/grants.htm#General_Information (http://code210.gsfc.nasa.gov/grants/grants.htm#General_Information)


Quote
NASA's GSFC Grants procurement office awards and administers grants and cooperative agreements for the GSFC scientific research programs and for NASA Headquarters (HQ) Program Offices, including continuations and renewals to previously awarded HQ grants. All awards are made in accordance with the NASA Grants and Cooperative Agreement Handbook, http://ec.msfc.nasa.gov/hq/grcover.htm.

Ya never know, HereForNow.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 07, 2007, 03:15:14 pm
Again you have to present a realistic plan that will get that money awarded. We could show them all of this and, not only would we be denied. They will use the idea. It has to stay in the confines of private enterprise.


NASA depends upon the private sector -- industry, educational institutions and other nonprofit organizations -- for the greater part of its research needs. Therefore, NASA encourages the submission of unique and innovative unsolicited proposals which will further the Agency's mission.
This document provides guidelines for the preparation of formal unsolicited proposals to those who wish to convey their creative methods or approaches to NASA. These guidelines apply to all unsolicited proposals regardless of the NASA Installation or Agency program for which they are intended, but do not apply to solicited proposals.

At the end of this document, information is provided which gives insight into NASA's specific current and anticipated research goals, and science or engineering topics that may be of interest to NASA. It should be noted that projects toward the research end of the spectrum rather than supplies or services are generally most suited to the unsolicited proposal approach.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on September 08, 2007, 01:30:01 am
I'm thinking that for one to tap into this money trough, one must have a few things first.

Like - a background in science and scientific research

Like - maybe a lab where some work is already being done and one can demonstrate one's skills in the desired technology

Like - may a few letters behind their name

and like that :D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 08, 2007, 01:37:01 pm
I'm thinking that for one to tap into this money trough, one must have a few things first.

Like - a background in science and scientific research

Like - maybe a lab where some work is already being done and one can demonstrate one's skills in the desired technology

Like - may a few letters behind their name

and like that :D

I agree! I'm a carpenter and machinist. The only money they will give me is enough for a bus ride to the air-port. LOL
Ofcourse if I were a multi-millionaire, that would be different. Then they would be asking me to invest in them. Which is kind of what a business plan accomplishes.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 09, 2007, 10:32:55 am
 :)  Well, then maybe this idea should be presented to a promising researcher, and not to NASA?  There are some good ideas here, even if they're from a carpenter, a musician, and (okay Qoais... I'm not going to pigeon-hole you, because you are quite versitile), and the rest of the contributers in this thread. 

I myself am a would be writer, and novelist, (still trying to sell my novel).  A personal here of mine is, Jules Verne.  Although he never invented anything, his fictional stories inspired the scientists of later days.  The first step of any technological progress is in the belief that it could be done, and it would be beneficial to mankind if it were done.  If Verne hadn't planted the thought in peoples minds that a trip to the moon was possible, perhaps we never would have suceeded in going there.  His story made it seem real and possible.  And so although I am not in the position to implement anything along the lines of a space station, (and perhaps none of us here are), we are all in the position of writing about one.  Which is exactly what we have already done. 

So perhaps the next step is to put it in the form of a story.  Or at least put it in the form of a magazine article which could be published and read by scientists who could do something about implementing it. 

My voice teacher taught me this addage; "Follow through on your ideas, or you will read about them in the newspaper".   ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 12:37:00 pm
:)  Well, then maybe this idea should be presented to a promising researcher, and not to NASA?  There are some good ideas here, even if they're from a carpenter, a musician, and (okay Qoais... I'm not going to pigeon-hole you, because you are quite versitile), and the rest of the contributers in this thread. 

I myself am a would be writer, and novelist, (still trying to sell my novel).  A personal here of mine is, Jules Verne.  Although he never invented anything, his fictional stories inspired the scientists of later days.  The first step of any technological progress is in the belief that it could be done, and it would be beneficial to mankind if it were done.  If Verne hadn't planted the thought in peoples minds that a trip to the moon was possible, perhaps we never would have suceeded in going there.  His story made it seem real and possible.  And so although I am not in the position to implement anything along the lines of a space station, (and perhaps none of us here are), we are all in the position of writing about one.  Which is exactly what we have already done. 

So perhaps the next step is to put it in the form of a story.  Or at least put it in the form of a magazine article which could be published and read by scientists who could do something about implementing it. 

My voice teacher taught me this addage; "Follow through on your ideas, or you will read about them in the newspaper".   ;)



SunGate, I would be honored to have you write about this. I will even let you publish my real name. Hopefully the others in the thread will feel the same.

As for the science that we've published that contributes to the feisibility of actually doing it. I beleive that it would make all the sence in the world to readers to know that these things can be done already, and haven't been.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 03:23:06 pm
Do a search on: (electrostatic-manipulation on nano)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 03:25:20 pm

Please Reveiw....

Nanoscale Manipulation and Self-Assembly: Single particle nano-manipulation, DNA nanotechnology, and Bio-nanotechnology.
Nanoscale Manipulation includes techniques for the manipulation of single cells, individual molecules, and atoms by scanning probes, laser tweezers, and other novel techniques. These schemes can be viewed as "top-down" fabrication techniques taken to their extreme, where even single particles can be positioned precisely. Nanoscale Self-Assembly takes the opposite approach. Here, chemical processes, such as complementary base pairing in DNA, are exploited for "bottom-up" assembly, where the structure "self-assembles" spontaneously without external manipulation. Other forms of bio-nanotechnology include biomaterial templating and microbial nanomanufacturing. Which stands to reason that for the self-assembling structures to occur, we need to think; Electrostatic discharge or electro-chemical signals and frequency modulation.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 03:48:06 pm

Think, Quantum Computer
Hybrid Molecular Electronics Example:
In the near term, there are myriad companies who are leveraging the power of organic self-assembly (bottom up) and the market interface advantages of top down design. The top down substrate constrains the domain of self-assembly.

Based in Denver, ZettaCore builds molecular memories from energetically elegant molecules that are similar to chlorophyll. ZettaCore's synthetic organic porphyrin molecule self-assembles on exposed silicon. These molecules, called multiporphyrin nanostructures, can be oxidized and reduced (electrons removed or replaced) in a way that is stable, reproducible, and reversible. In this way, the molecules can be used as a reliable storage medium for electronic devices. Furthermore, the molecules can be engineered to store multiple bits of information and to maintain that information for relatively long periods of time before needing to be refreshed.



(http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/images/Jurvetson%20article%20(image%208).jpg) Fig. 1
Recall the water drop to transistor count comparison, and realize that these multiporphyrins have already demonstrated up to eight stable digital states per molecule.

The technology has future potential to scale to 3D circuits with minimal power dissipation, but initially it will enhance the weakest element of an otherwise standard 2D memory chip. The ZettaCore memory chip looks like a standard memory chip to the end customer; nobody needs to know that it has “nano inside.” The I/O pads, sense amps, row decoders and wiring interconnect are produced with a standard semiconductor process. As a final manufacturing step, the molecules are splashed on the wafer where they self-assemble in the pre-defined regions of exposed metal.


(http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/images/Jurvetson%20article%20(image%209).jpg) Fig. 2

From a business perspective, the hybrid product design allows an immediate market entry because the memory chip defines a standard product feature set, and the molecular electronics manufacturing process need not change any of the prior manufacturing steps. The inter-dependencies with the standard silicon manufacturing steps are also avoided given this late coupling; the fab can process wafers as they do now before spin coating the molecules. In contrast, new materials for gate oxides or metal interconnects can have a number of effects on other processing steps that need to be tested, which introduces delay (as was seen with copper interconnect).

For these reasons, ZettaCore is currently in the lead in the commercialization of molecular electronics, with a working megabit chip, technology tested to a trillion read/write cycles, and manufacturing partners. In a symbolic nod to the future, Intel co-founder Les Vadasz (badge #3), has just joined the Board of Directors of ZettaCore. He was formerly the design manager for the world's first DRAM, EPROM and microprocessor.

Generalizing from the ZettaCore experience, the early revenue in molecular electronics will likely come from simple 1D structures such as chemical sensors and self-assembled 2D arrays on standard substrates, such as memory chips, sensor arrays, displays, CCDs for cameras and solar array assembly.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 03:52:21 pm
Nurse Cell Technology as discussed.
Controlling production, and key design

The implacations of using these technologies in space the way we discussed earlier on.


The Canadian Advanced Nanospace eXperiment (CanX) program is only Canadian picosatellite program at present. It is operated by the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies, Space Flight Laboratory (UTIAS/SFL). The program's objectives are to involve graduate students in the process of spaceflight development, and to provide low-cost accesss to space for scientific research and the testing of nanoscale devices. The CanX projects include CanX-1, CanX-2, and the BRIght-star Target Explorer (BRIGHT).

CanX-1 only switches into the detumbling/torquing mode when it is instructed to do so. It is for reducing the tumbling rate of the nanosatellite so that any images taken are not blurred as a result of CanX-1's motion. This mode can also be used to increase the tumbling rate of CanX-1 so that images can be taken in multiple directions without long delays. It uses maximum power when all three magnetorquers and the magnetometer are on simultaiously, and all payloads are switched off because sufficient power may not be available.

Remember our spider-like robots? Seems that it's all falling into place now huh?
What do you think SunGate? Q?



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 05:47:13 pm
Proposed machanical processes.


Now if we are going to stick to a design that will ressemble the giant bucky ball, let's think about the purpose of the inner most sphere we'll call #1., for now. Then the purpose of the one that will serve as a collector/manufacturing/mineral refinment and so...We can call it #2.
Last we have the purpose of the outer most sphere #3. All of these spheres work to sustain themselves in every aspect of purpose to preserve us and offer proper sheilding.

Using spectral analysis: http://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/asca/abc/node9.html to sift useful material from hazzardous, the refinement process can be broken down structural conponents of materials using hot, cold, and H-effects to separate and clear them of contaminations to purest form and then combined with nanocomputers for later uses in construction, and everything else.


In the first class of instruments, scientists use the wave-like nature of electromagnetic radiation. A prism bends the incoming light (refraction), and how much it bends depends on the wavelength. Use a slit to block out any unwanted light, place a prism behind the slit, and record the image (using a photographic plate, for example, or an electronic camera). The position along one direction of the image corresponds to the wavelength. The combination of a dispersive element (something that divides light into its component wavelength, the prism in this case) and an imaging detector makes a spectrograph. Instead of a prism, you can use a grating (a grating makes use of diffraction, another property of waves) as the dispersive element. In fact, this is more common in modern spectrographs.

In the second class of instrument, scientists use the particle-like nature of electromagnetic radiation. Each photon (a packet of radiation) carries a certain amount of energy. Most detectors used in X-ray and gamma-ray astronomy are capable of measuring the energy of each incoming photon --- for specific detector types, see the X-ray Detectors section. This is very different from optical astronomy, where most detectors cannot do this --- this is because X-ray and gamma-ray photons are generally fewer in number but carry more energy per particle. It's much easier to measure the energy of an X-ray photon than that of an optical photon.

Different types of instruments have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, dispersive spectrographs (the first type) are generally better at distinguishing neighboring wavelengths than the second (non-dispersive) types. On the other hand, with the latter, you get imaging and spectroscopic informations at the same time, which you cannot do with a dispersive instrument.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 07:08:33 pm


Energy storage from refined materials



One more artical that speaks of crystalised energy, for the refinement process:
Article from _www.realitysandwich.com_ (http://www.realitysandwich.com)   
For the past century, mainstream science has marched to the drum of modern   
convenience, producing a dazzling array of inventions to make our lives more   
comfortable, more entertaining and more productive. This Disneyland vision has   
unfortunately led us away from a path of economic and ecological
sustainability  into a dead end world powered by fossil fuels. What can possibly change
this  situation?
Several long forgotten principles of electromagnetism and something called  “
Zero-Point Energy” (ZPE) have reemerged in recent years as a central part of   
the search for free energy. This includes three revolutionary technologies: 1)
 wireless transmission of electricity, 2) free electrostatic energy and 3)   
passive electrical propulsion. Together, these technologies could bring about a
 catalytic change in the world, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels while
 rearranging the planet’s politico-economic landscape.   
To understand ZPE, we need to begin with a theory. Several new theories   
describe it as the residual energy resonating in a “space lattice” [The  Genesis
of Electromagnetic and Gravitational Forces, Peter Grandics, Ph.D,  2002].
This view proposes space is actually a cubic arrangement of spiraling  “energy
vortices” that fill space perfectly as a non-compressible lattice.  Manipulating
the space lattice and tapping into its energy vortices then becomes  a
unifying goal of ZPE research.
In this model of the universe, everything is described as some form of   
crystallized energy. Matter is said to originate from “angular energy” that has   
crystallized into a molecular lattice. Applying pressure causes matter to   
crystallize further and take on a larger more visible geometry, like that of a   
hexagonal quartz crystal or octahedral diamond. As things crystallize, they   
become more stable, coherent and resonant.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 09, 2007, 07:15:23 pm
It's your choice! Not NASA's....
However, this is what they think.


FROM NASA:


It's been done before; you should be concentrating on Mars.
The moon is the stepping stone to Mars

 A mission to go directly to Mars without first developing the capability on the moon might be within the resources of the government, but we haven't seen a way to make it work as a commercial enterprise. We whole-heartedly support the NASA administrator's proposal that the U.S. government mount an international manned expedition to Mars, especially if they leave the moon for private enterprise.

Our goal is to establish a system where people can earn a living from space development. Once people are earning a living from it, without having to rely on tax money, progress will continue without bound. For this to happen, the finances have to work every step of way. As best we can analyze it, a private manned mission to Mars would require far too much capital investment in research and development, and return far too little revenues, for such a mission to be financially viable.

The moon's industrial infrastructure will make Mars possible

The equations change, however, if we first establish an industrial and economic infrastructure on the moon. By leveraging a Mars mission with metals and fuel derived from lunar resources, and by supporting it with the local population and industrial capabilities of the moon, we can bring Mars missions within the realm of private enterprise.

Most of the systems we will need for a Mars mission can be developed and tested on the moon. We won't be able to study the effects of the corrosive atmosphere of the red planet or long-term exposure to extreme cold. Except for those factors, however, we should be able to develop all the systems we will need to support our crew on the long journey to Mars in the relatively accessible environment of the moon. We will be able to have our crew test the habitat systems for a two-year Mars mission in a spaceborne evironment; but putting that habitat on the moon near our developing lunar community, we provide them a path to safety when we discover problems with our engineering. We can tune up the design, and wait to go on to Mars until we get it right.

To get to Mars, launch from the moon

Launching for Mars from the surface of the moon also give us a tremendous advantage because we will be able to use a mass driver, reacting against the mass of the moon, for our intial injection into the trans-Mars trajectory. This reduces the total mass our of spacecraft by at least a factor of four, perhaps as much as three million pounds.

The moon is the front door to the universe

All these factors point us toward the moon as the logical step for private enterprise in space. If you want to go, and want to stay, the moon is the front door to the universe.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on September 09, 2007, 11:35:19 pm
NASA is an Illuminati front.

They have as much interest in space truths as the Communists did with honest media.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on September 10, 2007, 02:33:14 am
It's getting kind of scary out there actually, and I'm glad I'm not a young person, just starting out.  I know people have said that for thousands of years ( the older ones anyway :D) but I'm glad I lived in the era I have.  I was young enough to still work with horses on the farm before they were replaced with tractors, but I was able to drive all the modern equipment too.  Medicine in my era was advanced enough that the surgeries I've needed over the years were a piece of cake, and the health care system provided the means.   I've experienced the down home, country type of life, as well as the sophisticated city mode.  I've experienced the modern technology of computers, but know how to do math in my head (if I really have to ;D).

I really don't want to live in a time when everything is plastic and the planet chokes on it, we can't leave our homes and go shopping unless we get clearance from some phoney government official, the criminal is the injured party, the food and the soil it grows in has been so contaminated we get sick from eating "healthy" foods, the government cuts assistance to the aged, the schooling etc. etc. etc.

I read a book a long, long time ago, called The Captains and the Kings.  It pretty much was a novel, but it also pretty much explained what we're all talking about now. (I think I still have it- I was so impressed) How there is only about 10 money kings in the world and how they manipulate everything behind the scenes years and years in advance to satisfy their own ends.  How they pick and choose presidents before the dude is out of diapers, how they train him without his knowing, how they create wars to boost certain economies and destroy others, how they ruin peoples lives who have no idea what is going on behind the scenes at super high levels.  And you could walk by these big monies on the street and wouldn't have a clue because they look like any ordinary Joe.

Anyway, going back to the subject, I did quickly scan the recent posts, and although I am certainly not a scientist, I can see where there may be a few problems that would need attention.  It's too late and I'm too tired to really get into it, but I was thinking mostly about the integrity of the structure .  This business about nanocells having to be "refreshed" etc.  Or having a process reverse itself when it wasn't expected or something.  I'm sure those that are developing this stuff would develop a process or at least know more about keeping the structure rigid once it was produced.  I'm afraid science isn't my strong suit ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 03:38:20 am
NASA is an Illuminati front.

They have as much interest in space truths as the Communists did with honest media.
I Agree with that possibility!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 03:52:56 am
That is a good point Q, and beleive me. I thought about that too.
However lets reflect on metal rubber. Tranparent, yet able to stand up to extreme hot and cold. Returns to shape when when creased or crumbled.
(http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/images/sci0804skin_A_423.jpg)

In flight, birds can alter the shape of their wings and bodies in order to fly better in varying conditions. What if a plane could do that, too? Such a plane would need to be made from a material that could bend and stretch like rubber, and direct changes in shape by conducting electrical signals, the way metal can.

Enter Metal Rubber— a new patented material created by a team of researchers headed by Richard Claus, professor of materials sciences and engineering, and electrical and computer engineering at Virginia Tech. Claus' team took six years to perfect Metal Rubber, collaborating with chemist Jennifer Lalli at NanoSonic, Inc., a Blacksburg, Virginia nanotechnology company of which Claus is president.
 
 

 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 10, 2007, 11:23:59 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM VOLITZER:

Quote
NASA is an Illuminati front.
They have as much interest in space truths as the Communists did with honest media.

I knew that without even bothering to research it.  In order to control what people know, you'd have to control the agencies that are in authority.  Knowledge is power.  In order to keep and maintain power you have to control the cutting edge of technology, or new weapons that could threaten you power will be created and used against you.  Again without researching or “knowing” anything, in this “age of information”, their greatest defense is “disinformation”.  This just stands to reason and is simple logic derived straight from Maciavelli’s The Prince.

QUOTE FROM QOAIS:

Quote
…The Captains and the Kings.  It pretty much was a novel, but it also pretty much explained what we're all talking about now. (I think I still have it- I was so impressed) How there is only about 10 money kings in the world and how they manipulate everything behind the scenes years and years in advance to satisfy their own ends


I have only recently gotten into all these conspiracy theories.  It’s all pretty alarming, but I’ve never been one to get too involved in politics.  I have many friends who believe in one political cause or another.  I’ve maintained since I was a young man, that political systems are useless, because the real problem is the system of exchange we use.  The money itself creates money magnets.  Once a certain level of wealth is attained it begins to gather money to itself like a magnet.  Unless the person that “owns” the wealth is either a fool or benevolent saint, he becomes part of a natural money “pyramid” with only a few at the top capstone.  We could blame secret societies, or evil greedy men, but the real cause of it is the very means we all use to exchange goods. 

People and human nature are actually quite predictable. How can we blame super wealthy men for trying to hold on to what they’ve created, or inherited?  On a much lesser scale, we are all doing the same thing for our families.  They themselves are caught in a trap that society has created.  Do we at the bottom of the pyramid expect those at the top to simple give up their place, give their wealth away to the poor, and give up the power they wield?  Once men have power, it is a very hard thing to give up… who else would they trust with it?… In essence they are afraid to give up the power once they have it. 

We are all of us caught in a trap of our father’s, foremost ancestor's making.  Once the system and values were set in place, the rules of the game have dictated the outcome. 

So “we” disposed of the kings and the aristocracy, only to create new “kings” of industry and commerce.  Hitler tried to exterminate an entire race, took all their banking money and power and tried to conquer the world with it.  Communism rose and is now almost completely fallen.  Empires and rise and fall, and nothing really changes.  There will always arise new men to fill the vacuum of power.

But this is not created by the inherent evil nature of men.  Men in themselves are not inherently evil.  It is created by the system itself.  For money is power, and power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately. It’s the money. And which of us can stop using it?

But here’s the silver lining in all of this:  No one, no organization, no secret society, no matter how powerful can control everything.  There will always be the patriots, the pirates, the rebels, and in this scenario:  “The Astronaut Farmers

Who needs NASA?  This thread started out as a private enterprise to Mars.  If you can convince enough people that your idea will work, and get there, then the Illumanti will have to work harder to control the new colonists in the next new world… Mars.  Isn’t that the real allure of the red planet?   ;)




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 04:50:30 pm
Then we are on the same page then I see.  8)   Very Cool!
We might be Earth grown, but were not Earth bound.

As for our not so good friends on the other side of the fence, "They will reap what they have sown".....
They denied us a greater understanding of what we can accomplish.
Maybe, it's time they should live in the dark. Literally! The Dark........

Quote
Imagination, Is Invention.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 05:56:34 pm
From The Beginning!


(http://lifeboat.com/em/launcher.high.jpg)

 RESEARCH LAUNCHER

Total height: 9 feet
Travel: 6 feet, split into 6 one-foot sections
   1. Acceleration by compressed gas
   2-4. Electric acceleration
   5. Glide
   6. Electric and/or hydraulic deceleration

Field magnets: NdFeB or YBCO, on armature
Stator: Copper
Commutation: Sliding contact
Power supply: Capacitor bank
Speed measurement: Laser gates, pick-up coils
Projectile mass: 1 kg
Short term endspeed goal: 200 m/s
Projectile apogee: 1000 m


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 06:02:26 pm
Next!

“We think that the future of spaceflight is in using new systems, new architectures and exploring technologies to reinvent the design of space missions,” says Dario Izzo of ESA’s Advanced Concepts Team (ACT).
With that sentiment in mind, experts will come to ESTEC, ESA’s research and technology establishment, for a day of intense brainstorming. They will discuss new ways of: using spindly tethers that pull electrical power out of space to explore the fascinating moons and planets of the outer Solar System, using advanced propulsion to send spacecraft to deflect dangerous asteroids or go beyond the solar system, using a swarm of tiny satellites in formation to synthesise large structures such as telescopes and sails, and designing constellations of satellites that behave like rigid objects in space mocking Kepler’s Laws.

“This workshop will discuss some of the missions and enabling architectures that could fly in space in 20–30 years’ time. We will explore new approaches as to how space missions can be built, controlled or executed”, says Roger Walker, one of the co-organisers of the event. 
 
  (http://www.esa.int/images/sailhexagon_v2_L.jpg)
 
 
 Satellite swarm self-assembling a large array in orbit
One focus of the workshop will be the coordinated motion of satellite swarms. Primitive goal-oriented instincts will be coded into the control system of each satellite, guiding it to complete a small task, whilst remaining unaware that a more complex undertaking is being achieved collectively. This is how ants and termites behave in nature. In this way, a satellite swarm may be given a collective intelligence, allowing it to achieve useful tasks in space.

Large structures could be built, or many satellites could fly in formation to simulate the performance of much larger apertures than can be launched, whole, into space. Or the satellites might work in a coordinated way to explore many asteroids, providing a large cross section of comparable information rather than a snapshot of just one asteroid as happens with current missions.

Izzo hopes that some of the ideas discussed will lead to future studies for the agency. “Other talks will simply open people’s minds to the many possibilities on offer for future missions,” he says.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 06:14:36 pm
Rethinking, old concepts in a new way.

(http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Education/SpaceSettlement/70sArt/AC78-0330-4q.jpeg)

Within the inner equatorial ring that begins this structures journey to completion.
Cargo holds, contain usable materials needed to restock our robotic work force.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 06:27:29 pm

Agricultural

(http://members.aol.com/oscarcombs/torus3tn.jpg)

Technicians monitor crop yields in the agricultural area.  The "growing season" in separate sections can be staggered, ensuring fresh fruits and vegetables for the space settlers year-round.  Those crop plants which can tolerate 24-hour-a-day sunlight can have it.  Agriculture in space will benefit greatly from weather control, and from the absence of pests.

Hungry for some more?
(http://hs.houstonisd.org/hspva/academic/Science/Thinkquest/gail/media/pig.GIF)

Live Stock!
Most people are not aware that plants have been genetically engineered for years to produce some of our best crops. Now a completely different ball game, with much more complicated rules and an entirely different species of players, has opened up. The benefits are endless; the dangers, minute.

One of the largest areas that will be affected by the possibility of animal cloning is animal research. If the animals used in experiments are exactly the same physiologically, the experiments are much easier to control (Earnshaw). Fewer animals will be needed for experimentation, with better results. Though some scientists believe that animals are more susceptible to disease if they are part of herds with genetically identical genes, cells are also capable of being genetically engineered to root out diseases that the donor animal may have carried.

Cloning is also exciting in terms of animal agriculture-in the quality of what animals produce naturally, and what they can artificially produce to cure some of the most serious diseases (Friend). A cow's milk, a sheep's wool, and a pig's meat are only a few of the countless quality upgrades that any animal useful to humans would experience. Though these improvements are anything but trifling, they are nothing compared to what animals can artificially produce to effect the medical community in astounding ways.


One of the most immediate advantages of animal cloning will be in the area of pharmaceutical production. Cheap and plentiful bioengineered drugs that are made from human proteins will most likely be the first practical application . The ability to clone will allow scientists to genetically engineer animals for a particular protein, and then mass produce them. The animals carrying the proteins would secrete the proteins in their milk or blood to be harvested and then purified for use. Drugs made from these proteins today are extremely scarce and not affordable. Since they have been the only available answer for inherited disorders such as hemophilia, cystic fibrosis and emphysema, it has been a discouraging battle for those suffering with these diseases (Friend).

Though less certain but equally as exciting, the same technique used in cloning might be able to be used to reproduce much-needed organs, skin for burn victims, and various life-saving drugs (Yan). It will also give the world deep insights into spinal chords, heart muscle, brain tissue that won't regenerate after injury, and cancer cells that multiply uncontrollably (Krauthammer). Scientists predict that possibilities for humans because of animal cloning are infinite, and they cannot wait to get started.

Hmmm Plant and Animal material....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 06:31:23 pm
Can these ideas take us even further out?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 06:42:00 pm
(http://www.humansonmars.com/themes/SlashOcean/images/logo.gif)


The picture on this logo for some reason, had me imagining Atlantis. A terraformed world created in a hyper-large, man-made enigma. Weapons are completely out of the question, and no exchange of currency. Being that neither are even important. Being humble and respecting life, is an option more easily expressed. So much less stress, of the kinds we're all so used to feeling.

Work related stress is assisted with CAM's. (computer-aided machines)
To handle two-thirds the labor. We will have more options to multi-task, without our labors becoming routine. Recreation? Ordinary looking sun-glasses that are worn, while practicing martial arts that displace computer generated avatars that react to being hit. Thing is, if you take a hit, your life bar begins to run out. And you lose the match. The Avatar you were veiwing was controled by someone in another part of the station. Same would go far driving and flight simulations. Imagine hover-skiing through Rock arches, and deep canyons, and actually feel it. Others you called earlier on agreed to meet you on that game channel to race you.

I could go on and on...
But you get the idea.
 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 08:09:20 pm
Tension Breaker.

You have got to see this video.  :)
(http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/ww/news/2007/08/28/082907juggler_play.jpg)

http://www.yahoo.com/


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 10, 2007, 08:43:25 pm
(http://medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_26175.jpg)
(http://medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_26177.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 11, 2007, 10:00:54 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM HereForNow:

Quote
The picture on this logo for some reason, had me imagining Atlantis. A terraformed world created in a hyper-large, man-made enigma.

Boy we really are on the same page!!  Now this brings up another theory of mine.  I don’t talk about this one a lot because even I think it’s kind of “FAR OUT” 

I think a great many Atlantis aficionados, still regard the Atlantean civilization as an ancient civilization, but not as a technologically advanced civilization.  Even among those of us that regard the Atlantean’s as technologically advanced, few still would regard Atlantis as more technologically advanced then our present civilization is today. 

Some of us here in the forum would assert that the Atlanteans possessed flying machines as in the Hindu Vedas.  Even fewer would believe that they had the technology of space travel.  But how many of us here would go so far as to believe that they not only visited the other planets, but terraformed them and set up Atlantean colonies on other planets, including of course… MARS?

(Actually this touches on the theme of my novels because at the end of the first novel my adventures end up on Mars to gaze on “The Face On Mars”. Which I believe is not an alien Martian civilization, but the remnants an ancient Atlantean colony.)

So when you say, HereForNow, and I quote:…

Quote
The picture on this logo for some reason, had me imagining Atlantis. A terraformed world created in a hyper-large, man-made enigma.

… I for one think human kind has already been there, done that.  And there’s no reason why we can’t do it again.   ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2007, 03:23:59 pm
I'm actually smiling too. It's really nice to know that I'm not alone. I bet your friends in the "real" world raz you by calling you an alien too I bet.

I get it all the time. However, I'm no better. I call them monkies.   ::)
This is from another post of mine in creative writing that didn't really go anywhere but I think you will atleast be able to relate to the idea;

Maybe a TV show about Earth back in 15,000 B.C. that involves the Atlantean Empire in it's prime which was a one world goverment. Super-science and magic, are just bits and peices of what is going on around our cast of computer animated hybrid humanoids.
The very geology of the Earth is a very different place. A garden paradice, like a virtual Eden sets the stage for their passionate resistance against the Draconians. The spirit of all creation, and life is a kind of religion to them. However, their are those Atlanteans who seek to betray the ways of old to blindly seek to become god-like to satisfy their own greed and selfishness.

Being faced with the threat of intersteller war with Draconian worriors fighting for control of the fire stones in posidens great temple, and unending problems with still other threats. The Atlanteans demonstrait a very high degree of understanding the way cosmic forces and nature combined with their science, and spirit energy overcome the obstacles. They seek to teach the children who have the mark of Earth, (us) to be creative to eventually reach the stars. Their goal is to return to the stars as their ancestors did. (The First ones)

Draconians want to enslave the entire hybrid race and will stop at nothing to gain control of all of Atlantean resources. Yet they do not know that the chosen one, will one day escape the Earth with his people. They only know that a king will be born, and that he threatens the entire mission. First he must end the threat of war for Earth's safety, (to preserve, our kind.) and then he must fulfill his destiny as King. The problem is, he's only 12 years old. He must first learn the ancient knowledge of the first one's, before he can reveal his purpose. No one else knows this except for a worrior, a magician, and the Elder/gaurdian of Atlantis. This is to protect him from the draconian forces who are searching for him. They can never be aloud to know his identity until that day his prophecy is to be fulfilled. So, the child king to be, does not know who he really is for now until it's time.

His real name is to never be spoken so for now, his name is Thoth.
Elemental energy mastered: Creation
Spirit Energy: 12th Ray of enlightenment.
Enoch's equal. However, he doesn't understand this yet and at times, he doesn't have much control over how his abilities work.

It's not all that great, but it fits with alot of what we're discussing about Atlanteans for the moment.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2007, 03:55:36 pm
Imagine buildings that are contructed to support plant life as well as artistic design.
 Then placing them on an Earth-like planet.
(http://star-space.com/archives/2007/6/17/pliving/aChoSeoulCommune.jpg)

Buildings that erect themselves made of buckyball shaped supports constructed from nano-tubes, and covered in genetically engineered plants. How will technology change our lives in the next 10 years?

If scientists and analysts at the market research firm IDC are proven right, paraplegics will be able to walk thanks to sensors embedded in their legs that will receive directions from a computer.

Doctors will monitor a person's vital signs through a computer that is connected to tiny sensors implanted inside the body.

Buildings made of "nanotubes," or carbon particles that are a thousand times stronger than steel, will withstand virtually any natural disaster.

And the Web will be intelligent enough to give users exactly what they are looking for: no more scouring hundreds of pages on Google.

These are but a few of the predictions made by IDC last week about the technologies of the future, said John Gantz, chief research officer for IDC.

While even IDC admits that some of these concepts are a bit far-fetched -- like molecular-level "nanomachines" that spin cloth, make buildings and manufacture prescription drugs. Other researchers and scientists agree that many of these ideas will eventually materialize.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2007, 04:47:57 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f7/Hydrogen-bonded_Self-assembly_AngewChemIntEd_1998_v37_p75.jpg/450px-Hydrogen-bonded_Self-assembly_AngewChemIntEd_1998_v37_p75.jpg)

Molecular self-assembly is the assembly of molecules without guidance or management from an outside source.There are two types of self-assembly, intramolecular self-assembly and intermolecular self-assembly. Most often the term molecular self-assembly refers to intermolecular self-assembly, while the intramolecular analog is more commonly called folding.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Quadruple_Hydrogen_Bond_AngewChemIntEd_1998_v37_p75.jpg/300px-Quadruple_Hydrogen_Bond_AngewChemIntEd_1998_v37_p75.jpg)

A hydrogen bond is a special type of attractive interaction (perhaps a variation of a dipole-dipole bond) that exists between an electronegative atom and a hydrogen atom bonded to another electronegative atom. This type of bond always involves a hydrogen atom, thus the name. Hydrogen bonds can occur between molecules (intermolecularly), or within different parts of a single molecule (intramolecularly).[2] The typical hydrogen bond is stronger than van der Waals forces, but weaker than covalent, ionic and metallic bonds.

Intermolecular hydrogen bonding is responsible for the high boiling point of water (100 °C), as opposed to other group 16 hydrides. Intramolecular hydrogen bonding is partly responsible for the secondary, tertiary, and quaternary structures of proteins and nucleic acids.
With this in mind, think of the debris in space. Solar winds, and countless other minerals. It's funny that what most would have considered science-fiction, can be science fact if we apply our collective resourses to achive a singular goal.

The Only Walls Holding Us Back, Are The Ones We build!
 ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2007, 08:18:53 pm
Beyond Imagination


Not only are there pieces of man-made debris floating around in space, there are also numerous pieces of useless "junk" on the Moon, Venus, Mars and Phobos (Mars’ only moon). Some of the objects may be considered to be monuments; such as flags and plaques left to inform explorers from other worlds of human civilization. However, many objects are just useless pieces of garbage. Some people believe that all of the objects on these four different worlds should be left alone. If a nuclear war or any other disaster will wipe out humanity, all the objects would be clues of what life was like on earth.

In addition to these two forms of space garbage, yet another exists. Four man-made NASA probes have been sent out to explore lands outside our solar system. Pioneer 10, Pioneer 11, Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 are all currently exploring areas outside our solar system. When these probes were launched in the 1970’s, no plan was designed to bring them back to earth. Their booster rockets are still orbiting the earth aimlessly. They still, to this day continue to travel for no purpose out of this solar system into unexplored space.

Of these three types of space debris, naturally, the one that occurs closest to the earth poses the only major hazard to humans. Debris that orbits the earth can very easily hit space shuttles, space stations and vital man-made satellites. Most of the small pieces of debris are from the explosions of satellites in near-earth orbit. Even debris the size of a thumbtack can be dangerous. If a piece of metal the size of a thumbtack orbits the earth at 17,500 miles per hour and collides with a space shuttle that is moving at the same speed in the opposite direction, a substantial amount of damage can occur. Obviously, even greater damage can occur if the object is larger. In 1989, NASA scientists discovered a cloud of nuclear debris leaking from a Soviet space reactor that was used to power spy satellites. It is very possible that there are other leaking reactors and that their nuclear clouds could be a burden to further space exploration. In addition, the dangers of space walks could increase as even microscopic pieces of debris might puncture a space suit.

Earth-orbiting space debris can also be hazardous when it eventually spirals into the earth’s atmosphere and crashes into its surface. Most small pieces burn up once they hit the atmosphere. However, larger particles can break up and reach the surface of the earth. Three-fourths of all debris that hits the earth lands in one of the oceans and poses no threat to humans (unless it is part if a nuclear powered satellite). In 1978, parts of Cosmos 954 (a Soviet satellite) fell to the earth in northern Canada. That same year, increased activity on the sun’s surface caused the earth’s atmosphere to expand. This caused parts of the US Skylab satellite to fall to the earth in 1979 hitting sections of the Indian Ocean and western Australia. Neither of these regions were highly populated and therefore no humans were harmed. Scientists have estimated that thirty percent of the earth’s surface is land and only one percent of the land is densely populated. Therefore, if a large piece of debris falls to the earth every ten years, serious damage to people would occur within three thousand years. Bad luck could result in serious damage occurring next year. As cities spread, the chances of relevant damage will no doubt increase.

Scientists have acknowledged the problem of space debris for nearly two decades. They have developed methods of tracking the orbit of the debris. The United States Surveillance Center located beneath the Cheyenne Mountains tracks nearly seven thousand bits of space junk. Radio waves are launched from the site and then bounce off pieces of space debris. This enables people on earth to know the exact location and orbit of each object. This helps scientists at NASA choose safe orbits for the upcoming satellites. In June of 1995, the United Nations Committee in the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space met in Vienna, Austria and planned to create mathematical models to locate and chart the paths of all space debris.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2007, 08:38:57 pm
Why It Can Work!

Astronomical observations and astrophysical theory tell us that the solar system formed by the collapse of a vast molecular cloud. A portion of the cloud collapsed into the primitive Sun surrounded by a disk of gas and dust. Planets, asteroids, and comets formed in this disk. One of the most exciting discoveries made by meteoriticists in NASA's Cosmochemistry Program is that meteorites contain tiny grains that once inhabited the interstellar cloud. These grains, called presolar grains or stardust, are typically only a few micrometers in diameter. They survived cloud collapse and heating in the accretion disk surrounding the nascent Sun. These relicts from stars give us a close-up look at the grains that inhabit interstellar space and offer a highly informative complement to astronomical observations of stars and interstellar clouds. They are minuscule bits of stars available for close study.

Evidence that the grains are presolar comes from the relative abundances of the isotopes of common elements, such as silicon, oxygen, and carbon. The abundances of the isotopes differ from all samples of typical solar system material as found on the planets, asteroids (as sampled by meteorites), and comets. The aberrant isotopic compositions are caused by nuclear reactions in dying and exploding stars. All the isotopes of elements other than hydrogen and helium are synthesized by nuclear reactions in the interiors of stars. The isotopes are expelled into interstellar space by stellar winds or monumental explosions. Many condense into dust grains. These products of the life and death of stars mixed into the cloud from which the Sun developed, forming the raw materials for the solar system. Thus, the solar system is a mixture of materials from countless stars. During the formation of the solar system, most of the material was homogenized, giving the normal solar system isotopic compositions for the elements. A small percentage of grains escaped homogenization, giving us a window into the nature of stellar evolution and interstellar clouds.

Now....

The next generation of materials for magnetic recording media will require i) the design of regular arrays of ferromagnetic nanoparticles with well controlled morphology and behaviour and ii) to physically separate these particles, either by vacuum or by a nonmagnetic material to fully discriminate the bits of information. Other requirements are the chemical stability, the obtention of a definite direction for magnetization, the mecanical stiffness… The growth of carbon nanotubes by a catalytic CVD process requires the presence of nanoscaled transition metals particles (Fe, Co, Ni), which are ferromagnetic. These particles are encapsulated after growth on the top of the nanotubes. Moreover in appropriate deposition conditions they took a very anisotropic shape, and the particle fullfills the nanotube which is a nonmagnetic material. Various other carbon nanostructures can be grown (nanocones, carbon nanofibers, …) depending on the experimental CVD and the metallic dispersion parameters. The magnetic properties of these arrays of Co nanoparticles encapsulated into carbon were investigated by SQUID and MFM. Different magnetic behaviour were evidenced - Superparamagnetic behaviour for small particles (5 à 8 nm) encapsulated into non oriented nanotubes - Strong magnetic anisotropy in the plan of the substrate for nanoparticles (~30 nm) encapsulated at the top of nanocones, due to an exchange coupling between a metallic core and a thin antiferromagnetic CoO external layer. - Strong magnetic anisotropy perpendicular to the plan of the substrate of metallic nanowires (diameter~25 nm and aspect ratio from 1/4 to 1/10), induced by the cork-like shape of the nanoparticles. In this case the coercitive field (750 Oe), the magnetic anisotropy combined with high density (1010particles/cm2) and the weak dipolar interactions evidenced by MFM are very attractive for dense storage media.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 12, 2007, 11:58:06 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM HereForNow:

Quote
I'm actually smiling too. It's really nice to know that I'm not alone. I bet your friends in the "real" world raz you by calling you an alien too I bet.


LOL, Actually even my wife and children think I’m an alien!  When anything extraterrestrial comes up they say my relatives are trying to contact me! 

I like the theme of your creative writing.  I’m not sure it’s marketable to the mainstream public, but I’d surely be a fan!  It would beat some of these “reality” shows.  800 channels to watch and there’s nothing of interest to me besides the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Science Channel.  But I’ve seen most of what they air already several times.  So I read while the Science Channel is on showing the latest Mars probes.  We need to get these guys going with some better plans!  NASA is shooting for the next trip to the moon in 2020.  And they’re planning to extract oxygen and water from the moon rocks there and live in a tin can that would give my parakeets claustrophobia! Somehow I don’t think this is how the Atlanteans did it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 12, 2007, 03:14:36 pm
 :) See, we are the same in ways...

In regaurds to how they are planning the mission, I would have to agree with you.
It seems futile for them to survive in such a limited amount of space with all the what if's, and fewer options. They, on the other hand are probably going anyways.  :-\

Beleive me, if I knew a way to get our plan off the ground. I would spend the next, however many years
at our mission control center working day and night.  :) Then again, I did hit the 3 number daily lotto for $50.00.... Yesterday.

I bought chinese food for the family, and put gas in my truck.

Back at the ranch.......


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 12, 2007, 09:50:17 pm
http://www.zyvex.com/nano/


Manufactured products are made from atoms. The properties of those products depend on how those atoms are arranged. If we rearrange the atoms in coal we can make diamond. If we rearrange the atoms in sand (and add a few other trace elements) we can make computer chips. If we rearrange the atoms in dirt, water and air we can make potatoes.
Todays manufacturing methods are very crude at the molecular level. Casting, grinding, milling and even lithography move atoms in great thundering statistical herds. It's like trying to make things out of LEGO blocks with boxing gloves on your hands. Yes, you can push the LEGO blocks into great heaps and pile them up, but you can't really snap them together the way you'd like.

In the future, nanotechnology will let us take off the boxing gloves. We'll be able to snap together the fundamental building blocks of nature easily, inexpensively and in most of the ways permitted by the laws of physics. This will be essential if we are to continue the revolution in computer hardware beyond about the next decade, and will also let us fabricate an entire new generation of products that are cleaner, stronger, lighter, and more precise.

It's worth pointing out that the word "nanotechnology" has become very popular and is used to describe many types of research where the characteristic dimensions are less than about 1,000 nanometers. For example, continued improvements in lithography have resulted in line widths that are less than one micron: this work is often called "nanotechnology." Sub-micron lithography is clearly very valuable (ask anyone who uses a computer!) but it is equally clear that conventional lithography will not let us build semiconductor devices in which individual dopant atoms are located at specific lattice sites. Many of the exponentially improving trends in computer hardware capability have remained steady for the last 50 years. There is fairly widespread belief that these trends are likely to continue for at least another several years, but then conventional lithography starts to reach its limits.

If we are to continue these trends we will have to develop a new manufacturing technology which will let us inexpensively build computer systems with mole quantities of logic elements that are molecular in both size and precision and are interconnected in complex and highly idiosyncratic patterns. Nanotechnology will let us do this.

When it's unclear from the context whether we're using the specific definition of "nanotechnology" (given here) or the broader and more inclusive definition (often used in the literature), we'll use the terms "molecular nanotechnology" or "molecular manufacturing."



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 13, 2007, 10:13:18 pm


 :o And we thought we were alone?


Quote
Originally posted by cosmicsurfer


(http://www.quantumaetherdynamics.com/Aether_Unit2.jpg)

"As a result of the Aether Physics Model, the term "Aether" is once again brought into the scientific lexicon as space-time (or more accurately, space-resonance) is shown to include mass, charge, geometrical shapes, and is driven by a massive, dynamic Gforce. The Aether is clearly identified and shown to have an active part in maintaining the existence of the physical Universe.

Differences between the Aether Physics Model and the Standard Model of physics.

1. In the Aether Physics Model charge is always represented as a distributed charge (i.e. coul² instead of coul)

2. All subatomic particles are seen just as experiment and mathematics presents them, as primary angular momentum (two-dimensional matter); not as solid particles and not as waves. This eliminates wave/particle duality.

3. The photon in the Aether Physics Model is essentially an outward expanding electron and not a point particle. The outward expansion causes the photon to lose the electrostatic charge but retain its electromagnetic charge. The photon moves at the speed of light, thus causing the photon to appear as though it were in free fall and massless.

4. In the Aether Physics Model the electron and proton have two types of charge, electrostatic and electromagnetic. The electrostatic charge has a spherical angle and the electromagnetic charge has a steradian angle. The neutron and photon also have electromagnetic charge, but the neutron has a null electrostatic charge and the photon has no electrostatic charge.

5. The structure of the Aether is such that it appears there are two toroids spinning in opposite directions, which contributes to the structure of subatomic particles and atoms. This configuration allows for half-spin electromagnetic charges, which cover 360 degrees of arc. The half-spin, steradian electromagnetic charges of subatomic particles are attracted together according to the strong force law, which is similar to Coulomb's electrostatic force law.

6. In the APM the mass and electromagnetic properties of all subatomic particles always have the exact same mass to electromagnetic charge ratio. Even the Aether has the same mass to electromagnetic charge ratio.

7. In the Aether Physics Model, Aether (space-resonance) is seen as an essential component of reality. All physical matter exists within space-resonance and this space-resonance is dynamic, not lifeless or static.

8. The Aether Physics Model has a mathematically correct Unified Force Theory, the Standard Model does not.

9. The APM also acknowledges a conductance constant for free space, the Standard Model does not. This conductance constant is essential to understanding the true nature of the Quantum realm as it is directly responsible for producing electromagnetic charge.

10. The Aether Physics Model explains General Relativity Theory in terms of the electrostatic charge of the Aether and the strong charge of matter.

e² = 8pi * a * e.emax²

This replaces Albert Einstein's explanation as the equality between the space-time curvature tensor and the mass-energy tensor:

G = 8pi * T

Not only does the APM explanation explain why light bends around massive objects, but it also explains plasma physics."
 
http://www.quantumaetherdynamics.com/

(http://www.16pi2.com/images/chapter5.jpg)

There are four commonly known, fundamental dimensions; mass, charge, length, and frequency. Quantum matter has only two dimensions of length, that is, it only has surface characteristic. There is no quantum matter that is solid. It is the distance between surfaces that provide the third dimension of length producing “solid matter” as we perceive it at the macro level of existence.

We perceive time as normal and frequency as the reciprocal because subatomic onta move only in the forward dimension of time. In reality, the onta are acting like “time diodes”. What we really see is a pulsed forward motion of time, not unlike a rectified AC current produces pulsed DC current. Since all subatomic matter beats to the same pulse in forward time, time appears as linear to our perception.

Visualizing the forward and backward time, it is possible to see how time and space are curved such that distributed frequency appears as spherical and space appears as a loxodrome. But once again, this geometry can only be seen from beyond the material world (such as being visualized in our mind through meditation.) When the material world is viewed from within the material world, i.e. from the body’s senses, then we are viewing from half-spin perspective and see only three dimensions of space and one dimension of pulsed, linear time (normally called 4D reality.)

The presentation of time and space in terms of curvature implies that curved geometry is inherent to Aether. In the Aether Physics Model, the curved geometry of Aether is presented as a function of frequency squared. Frequency squared resolves to a sphere with a surface constant of 4p.  In this sense, the spherical constant could be considered a “fifth dimension” in addition to mass, charge, length, and frequency.

When expressed in cgs units, permeability, permittivity, conductance, and rotating magnetic field (Aether unit) are expressed solely in terms of the 4p spherical constant and the speed of light. So it is shown that Aether is a function of curvature and motion, much like the ancient philosophers taught.

Not only can it be seen that the Aether is a function of spherical geometry and the speed of light, but the fact that charge can be expressed entirely in terms of the other three dimensions shows that charge is indeed a derived dimension. Strong charge is equal to angular momentum times Aether conductance.

The strong charge has half-spin, as the angular momentum that produces strong charge can only move in forward moving time. In order to convert strong charge steradian geometry to electrostatic spherical geometry, the strong charge must be multiplied by 4p. And since the elementary charge comes from a 1-spin Aether sphere, 2 must multiply the half-spin strong charge in order to be equal in spin to the elementary charge.

The fine structure constant is the proportion by which the strong charge must be multiplied in order to bring the elementary charge sphere and equivalent strong charge sphere into unity. So it can be seen that there is another conservation law of physics, it is the conservation of charge geometry.

The rotating magnetic field is not just a single magnetic field spinning in one direction. It is a bi-directional spin composed of two toroidal shaped electromagnetic charges spinning adjacent to each other, but in opposite directions.  In the two-spin version of rotating magnetic field, it is also oscillating between forward and backward time.

There are two manifestations of the rotating magnetic field. There is the two-spin manifestation, which is the full Aether unit and has the geometrical constant of 16p2. Then there is the one-spin manifestation of rotating magnetic field, which applies when two onn bind together. One spin rotating magnetic field has a geometrical constant equal to the toroidal onn (4p2) times 2, because there are two oppositely spinning onta in a binding.

The bi-directional spinning toroids component of the equation are equal to the quantum measurement unit of double cardioid. The mass to strong charge ratio of the onn is the source of electromagnetism. The rotating magnetic field unit is therefore described as an electromagnetic double cardioidal spin, or rotating magnetic field."

http://www.16pi2.com/chapter_5_secrets_of_the_aether.htm

Wow, a lot to think about in this short review.  First off, what first comes to mind is that someone else also has come to the same conclusion in regards to a two way flow of time.  Secondly, if there is a two way flow of time then how do large scale "mediums" fit into such a paradigm?  Fortunately, MM has the edge in defining CG and MI geometries as a first approximation that certainly takes this relationship beyond the speed of light. In this case of a dual time nature, the mediums would move in opposite directions and have polarity.  So, then the next step is that such a medium flow must then demodulate into lower frequencies that maintain forward and reverse angular momentum, the regeneration of matter and antimatter, and gravity and antigravity.  Obviously, we only see the effects of forward time, gravity, and only in rare circumstances do we see antigravity, levitation, cold energy, and other time dilation related effects.  Why? If we finally can understand and answer correctly that question, then we will resolve many issues in physics and evolve our science and this civilization to an advanced technological level that would accelerate the FTL exploration of our universe.

John


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 14, 2007, 02:33:46 pm
 :)  I’d head that the Aether idea was making a comeback from the 19th century.  Darwin too, is under attack as well after 100 years of clinging to a belief that does not have one shred of evidence.  The pendulum swings the other way, huh?
But I doubt you’ll see Darwin or Quantum mechanics disappearing from the college textbooks anytime soon.  It takes more than better theory that explains what the old one doesn’t.  You have to prove the old theory wrong first, and then present the new theory.  It’s kind of like science’s royal throne.  The old king has to die first!  LOL.

I’ll have to digest this for a while.  Too much thinking at one time, gives me a headache.  That’s a big chuck of information.  I’ll have too pick on it for a while, LOL. 
 ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on September 15, 2007, 05:33:35 am
*** ODDBALL IAPETUS *** the Front cover of "Science News" weekly . . . Aug. 18 2007 . . . Vol. 172, #7 . . . pg. 104-106    www.sciencenews.org                    . . ."a well preserved relic from the early days of the solar system," . . . "may be the Rosetta stone of the outer solar system," says Dennis Matson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif.       *DDn***   c.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 15, 2007, 11:24:15 am
You know, it's funny that all of this information is surfacing like it is.
Once upon a time, I was debating theories with so called experts on thermodynamics in the myth busters forum. They indirectly called me a quack and told me that some of these ideas were outside of the reality limits. I replied and told them, "Reality is only what we can explain using our sences, and most of what we need to know is outside of those abilities to understand for now. The reason you say it won't work is because others think so"....

Here it is 6 years later, and Adam and Jamie were wrong...  ;D
It's about time to see what types of clean, green energies can be produced using the theories we've all had and make it happen. Even if it is for ourselves to explore, for the sake of heating and lighting our own homes.

Networking our collective ideas, have already lead to greater posibilities then any of us could have imagined. Meaning what we won't see on TV or in magazines.
Thank you D3D...



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 15, 2007, 11:35:42 am
Quote
I’ll have to digest this for a while.  Too much thinking at one time, gives me a headache.  That’s a big chunk of information.  I’ll have too pick on it for a while, LOL.


I posted as an example of other factors we can research in molecular nanotechnology, manipulation, refinement, and practical usage. As we discussed way earlier on, we could try taking on different sections of this plan to examine. One could be working on propultion, and still another working on habitat, and life-support.


P.S. Here is a top classified photo of a section on Mars. Please check URL for source;
 (http://www.unarius.org/mars/tube_sml.jpg)

Glass Tunnels, and what looks like deep gouges.

Other anomalies include this golf ball shaped object inside of a crater.
What is it? And, how can you explain it being naturally created?
(http://www.geocities.com/photon9999/3Ddetail_golfball.gif)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 16, 2007, 07:54:50 pm
The primary purpose of a mission created by our private enterprise would be comprised of discovering once and for all what these and other anomalies might actually be. Entire, groups of scientist could actually go and land near many of these anomalies to find out just what it is, and how it may have came to be.

Look at these images from a bigger picture.
I'm sure after many skeptical eyes have veiwed these photos, that a sence of awe became the primary expression on their faces. These anomalies have been reveiwed over and over again and no explanation has been offered. Not even one about them being naturally created. Hmmmm

I welcome any of you to really examine the pictures with a skeptical eye. I am still really struggling to find an explanation as to how these things could have been created naturally, and I have yet to find that information anywhere. LOL
This is one of the reasons that makes going to Mars so important to Me. I would love to stand face to face with even one of these anomalies and see it up close to discover what these photos are showing us. Getting back the focas of this mission. It's easy to see why Mars has captured the imaginations of so many.

(http://www.geocities.com/photon9999/m1501228annotatedsmall.jpg)

After looking at miles of these strange structures, going to Mars should be the motivation for a very ambitious plan about how we're going to get there. I have all reason to suspect that "Our" collective plan for going to Mars is very feisible. Now, it a matter of getting it done.
BTW, I am asking all of you to atleast remain open minded to the possible outcome of atleast trying.
Think about that for a moment and then reveiw the evidence closely. We now have what it takes technologically to bring to life, our Traveling space station. I feel it is something that might be worth pursuing once we can figure out funding.

If any may have any suggestions about this section, or even comments about the photos. I welcome any input about what we might be looking at. The first ever interplanetary space station is sure to be a first of alot things in it's maiden voyage to Mars. We just have to be persistent in making the dream, a reality and it can succeed. Even NASA at the point of start-up is welcome to join forces, as long as the Goverments of the world will not be involved in it's construction or any phase of it's existence. The NASA of old was a private enterprise at one time too. They have proved to the world over that a trip to Mars is hard but not impossible. Think it over folks!

Here is that website that these wonderful photos came from:
http://www.geocities.com/photon9999/grandcentral.htm

Other anomalies are discribed and shown within.....    :)
See you all tomarrow!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 17, 2007, 01:49:54 pm
 :)  Glass Tunnels?  These strange formations remind me of worms.  They don’t look geological or man made.  They look biological.  OMG they remind me of those giant worm like things in “Tremors” staring Kevin Bacon, LOL! 

Is it possible that these are fossilized sea worms of some kind that were on the bottom of a Martian Sea or ocean that has long since disappeared?   ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 17, 2007, 03:16:08 pm
:)  Glass Tunnels?  These strange formations remind me of worms.  They don’t look geological or man made.  They look biological.  OMG they remind me of those giant worm like things in “Tremors” staring Kevin Bacon, LOL! 

Is it possible that these are fossilized sea worms of some kind that were on the bottom of a Martian Sea or ocean that has long since disappeared?   ::)


Well I would imagine that these worms being miles long as these glass tunnels are, would more then likely be the reason we don't see anything else alive on the surface. LOL  :)
However, the idea of biological formations is no less interesting. In fact, the would be the cat's butt in a manner of speaking if that is one of the possibilities. In this case, I'm guessing on it being caused by extreme heat from impacts that cooled quickly, if not suddenly. Kinda like the green glass of Egypt, accept ours looks kinda clear, with a smoky black tint.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 18, 2007, 06:11:20 pm
TSM might find this bit of information useful. Principles of Field Effect Propulsion:

Field Effect propulsion systems create unidirectional forces without a readily evident reaction force or the need of a material reaction medium.   In reality reactionless forces do not really exist, although the usual necessity for the material reaction medium is circumvented, giving the impression of a reactionless force.  The equal and opposite reaction of Newton, is instead provided by an asymmetric coherence of the random Zero-Point energy acting upon some material component of the propulsion system or through direct modification of the local vacuum flux so as to create a gravity or inertial field streamlining effect. 

This is possible in the realization that all forces, including gravity and inertia, fundamentally arise from a coherent flow of energy from the vacuum.  Without such a flow of energy, even so called "static" forces such as atomic bonds cannot exist.  Consequently mass proves to be neither an intrinsic nor immutable property of matter. 

In fact, it can be said that  matter has no gravitational or inertial mass at all, unless it is experiencing acceleration with respect to the quantum vacuum flux according to Newton's equation, m=F/a. Gravitational force  is consequently recognized as a radially coherent flow of ZPE around all material objects which attenuates with a 1/r2 relation.  All of this of course flies in the face of conventional dogma, including the Engineering work function (W=Fd) which was misappropriated into the body of scientific knowledge as a fundamental truth. 

In reality the work function is just a simple "closed system" engineering tool that conveniently ignores the energetic nature of space and its steady state interaction with all matter.  Field Effect propulsion can be accomplished in a myriad of ways from simple mechanical devices incorporating novel angular momentum components incorporating complex non-linear motion, to more sophisticated electrostatic and electromagnetic devices which create momentary cyclic asymmetries or streamlining of the local inertial or gravitational flux of the vacuum.     

Here you will eventually find a growing list of information and links to other sites dealing with the subject of Field Effect propulsion.  Many such devices already exist in various states of development.  In the absence of active links just use the terms provided to conduct your own search.
 
¨     Asymmetric High Voltage Capacitors (Townsend Brown)
¨     Cascade Generator / Electric Rocket
¨    Capacitor Array Gravity Warp Drive
¨     Thornson EZKL Drive
¨     Inertialess Drive Rotor
¨     Reactionless Gimbal Drive (Hughes Aircraft Co.)
¨     Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster (GIT)
 
A range of consulting services can be made available to assist in the development of Reactionless Drives systems.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 18, 2007, 06:24:44 pm
A project, sponsored by NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program, to study ways of influencing the energy density of the quantum vacuum with a view to possible applications in spacecraft propulsion. It is being conducted by a team of scientists from various academic and corporate institutions in the United States and Mexico.


An idea for achieving faster-than-light travel suggested by the Mexican theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre in 1994.1 It starts from the notion, implicit in Einstein's general theory of relativity, that matter causes the surface of spacetime around it to curve. Alcubierre was interested in the possibility of whether Star Trek's fictional "warp drive" could ever be realized. This led him to search for a valid mathematical description of the gravitational field that would allow a kind of spacetime warp to serve as a means of superluminal propulsion. Alcubierre concluded that a warp drive would be feasible if matter could be arranged so as to expand the spacetime behind a starship (thus pushing the departure point many light-years back) and contract the spacetime in front (bringing the destination closer), while leaving the starship itself in a locally flat region of spacetime bounded by a "warp bubble" that lay between the two distortions.  :) Then again, matter distorted to expand or contract means altering the state of matter. Perhaps "dark matter" which has been suggested as distorted, could be stable in that altered state. The ship would then surf along in its bubble at an arbitrarily high velocity, pushed forward by the expansion of space at its rear and the contraction of space in front. It could travel faster than light without breaking any physical law because, with respect to the spacetime in its warp bubble, it would be at rest. Also, being locally stationary, the starship and its crew would be immune from any devastatingly high accelerations and decelerations (obviating the need for "inertial dampers"), and from relativistic effects such as time dilation (since the passage of time inside the warp bubble would be the same as that outside).


This information descibes an idea I had about time travel back at the old AR forum. The draw back is returning from where you came, unless you reverse the expansion of the universe. The option then is time travel, or reversing time. Thus returning to the point or point before that, to go the other direction.


To sum it all up, you would remain motionless as space and time go on without you. Suddenly you phase back into the physical universe as it is and begin traveling with it again.
 This means being on Mars, at one PM, and returning to Earth by 1:01 PM for a late lunch, and Back to Mars by no later then 1:16 if you managed to make into the outer atmosphere by a quarter after. And that's taking it slow when you think about how fast space is expanding.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 18, 2007, 07:15:08 pm
"They'll still be out there," said cosmologist Lawrence Krauss of Case Western Reserve University. "But space will be expanding faster than the speed of light," and so the light from those galaxies will never reach us again.

This is possible despite the universal speed limit being that of light, Krauss said, because the galactic clusters won't actually be moving; it's the space between them that will be expanding at a rate faster than light can traverse it.

Krauss and Vanderbilt University physicist Robert Scherrer have written a paper on the matter, which will appear in the October 2007 issue of the Journal of Relativity and Gravitation.

The cause of all this is the bizarre but critical component of the universe called dark energy.

Dark energy is the growing tendency of empty space to spontaneously create more empty space — thereby distancing anything in the universe that's not bound together with gravity. No one can fully explain dark energy, but without it the universe we see today makes no sense.

"We know it's allowed (by physics), but we have no idea what it is," said University of Michigan cosmologist Fred Adams, co-author of the book "The Five Ages of the Universe."



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 19, 2007, 02:57:35 pm
 :)  TO QUOTE YOU, HEREFORNOW:

Quote
Well I would imagine that these worms being miles long as these glass tunnels are, would more then likely be the reason we don't see anything else alive on the surface. LOL   


LOL, Thanks I needed a good laugh, and that gave me one.  Impacts that create heat and cool quickly, caused them you think?  I’ve never seen anything like this in the geology on our planet.   To be sure there are different forces at work on Mars, though.  Miles long you say?  Curious to say the least!  If they’re man made, (or humanoid-made, LOL), then they’re culture has a different approach… (kind of reminds me of “he Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai in the 4th Dimension”.

Quote
This is possible despite the universal speed limit being that of light, Krauss said, because the galactic clusters won't actually be moving; it's the space between them that will be expanding at a rate faster than light can traverse it.


I’ve done a lot of thinking on this speed of light limit thing.  You know Tesla thought that Einstein had it all wrong in regards to relativity.  I’m not sure I buy into it either.  Quantum is just the latest model, and others have come and gone.

Time and space… they’re really an illusion.  Everything is moving in such a complex motion, can anyone even get a heading on where we are and where we’ve been?  Think about it.  We are revolving around the earth as it spins at over 1,000 miles an hour.  As we move in that circular motion, the entire earth revolves around the Sun at God knows what speed!  Then the entire solar system revolves around the center of the Milky Way at again an even more staggering speed.  The entire galaxy is also moving, probably around the center of the universe, at an even greater speed!

So exactly where were we in a “fixed” space ten seconds ago?  If we could actually go back to that “fixed” space perhaps we would actually be back in time.  But who can even calculate with any certainty where exactly that place would be. 

I assert that there is no such thing as time.  There is only complex motion.  If you are on a merry-go-round and you want to move forward to the position just in front of you, then it will take an enormous effort, because you will have to exert a force greater than the centrifugal force that you are subject to on that merry-go-round.

But if you simply jump off of it then the position you are trying to get to will come around again to you, and you can just jump back on.  So without overcoming the centrifugal force, you have achieved your goal.

If the goal were to achieve a speed greater than light, then I think you would first have to address overcoming the forces that would tear you apart in the process of achieving that speed.

But that is not actually the goal here, is it?  We don’t seek to be faster than light.  We seek to travel to places that are extremely far away, even at that atrocious speed. And should we achieve twice that speed, they would still be impractically far away. 

We are subject to gravitational forces that keep us a prisoner on this crazy merry-go-round.  If we could just “get off the ride” and break free of those gravitational forces, (at the speed everything else is already moving), perhaps we would be able to travel to those far away places.  Some food for thought.  ;)

P.S.  The new avatar is more colorful.  But I just figured out what the old Tiger and Dragon one was, and I liked the symbolism.  Have you joined the avatar of the month club?, LOL.  8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 19, 2007, 05:20:43 pm
Well first off, I'd like to thank you for the complement on my avatar. LOL
 :D

Next, it is a popular beleif that the universe is traveling out from where it began at 2,000,000 miles a second which is atleast 10 times as fast as light speed. 186,000 miles per second I think it is? Now to simply stop in a kind of temporal displacement from this physical realm, wait say ten seconds and then re-enter. Think of the distance covered by the moving space around you. Now this idea is not what I have in mind for a practical form of propelling our space station across the heavens.  ::)
However, It's something fun to ponder for an eventual system, or means of warp drive.

This one is a more colorful version of the old avatar....
 :) Copy and paste URL for a better look. The tattoo on my back is simular to this picture but more tribal. I'm kinda "new school", in my child mind. I love body art.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 19, 2007, 08:07:06 pm
This is the effect felt by an individual or object that is moved through time.

Temporal Displacement Wave

Upon making a change to the timeline, a temporal displacement wave would ripple out from the point of change. This wave was shown in the Star Trek: Voyager episode ' Year of Hell, Part One '. When the wave hit Voyager, the alien delegate was erased and the ship was changed to a much more damaged version of itself, as the attacking vessel was far stronger in armaments. The propagation speed of the wave is unknown - it may be limited to light speed (c), or may be much faster, possibly travelling instantaneously.

In the Terminator films, the displacement effect is the sphere that destroys everything out to a radius of about a metre from the object being displaced.

Temporal Radiation

This is the principle that an operating or damaged time machine will leak temporal radiation, as shown on Enterprise. The radiation can cause time to move slower or faster than normal, stop time altogether or cause it to loop.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 19, 2007, 08:15:27 pm

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2000/03/35121

Federal researchers say they've created the most robust quantum computer ever, indicating that the concept is rapidly moving from theory to practice and could create the most powerful computing devices ever dreamed of.
If the trend of increasing performance continues, a quantum computer that triples today's fastest computers could be built in five years, according to physicist Raymond Laflamme, who helped build the world's first 7-qubit computer described in the most recent issue of Nature.


"Right now it's impossible to say if we can scale these technologies," said Laflamme, the project's lead researcher. "But if you asked me five years ago if we could build a 7-qubit computer in five years, I would have said it was impossible."

Quantum effects give sub-molecular computers great power. Still, quantum computers may never be general-purpose computing devices and are more likely to be targeted at massive number-crunching problems like encryption and decryption, searches of huge databases and simulations of quantum physical states.

While the theoretical foundations of quantum computing were set in the 1980s, scientists had been unable to build quantum computers until recently.

The first 3-qubit quantum computer was created just 18 months ago at the Department of Energy’s Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. The lab's researchers describe in the Nature paper how they used a test tube of trans-crotonic acid and a powerful nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer to create the 7-qubit (pronounced kew-bit), or quantum bit, quantum computer.

Physicist David Wineland of the National Institute for Standards and Technology, who is working on a competing quantum computing technology, said the work was important but ultimately the NMR technology will hit a roadblock.

"It's significant because it's the most complicated system people have been able to do something interesting on," he said. "But people in the field generally feel that the final quantum computer won't be an NMR computer."

Laflamme's quantum computer was created by manipulating the nuclei of seven molecules in a test tube of trans-crotonic acid, hence 7-qubit. Like a spinning magnet, the molecules' nuclei can be lined up with electromagnetic pulses from the nuclear NMR spectromotor, which is a specialized version of the imaging devices commonly used in hospitals.

"It's like trying to manipulate needles with bulldozers," Laflamme said.

The lining up of a nucleus parallels the encoding of information in conventional computers as binary ones or zeros. However, unlike a traditional bit, which is either on or off, the nuclei are subject to the very weird laws of quantum physics that allow them to simultaneously be in multiple states. In other words, they can be a one or a zero at the same time.

Wineland said that the NMR approach will run out of steam at 15 qubits because key interactive effects between the quantum particles start to disappear.

Wineland is working on one of several different approaches to quantum computing that utilizes trapped ions instead of fluid liquids.

Laflamme compared his research to the early days of computing, when computers weighed 30 tons and were built from thousands of vacuum tubes. Back then, computer scientists predicted that one day computers would weigh only 5 tons and be built from hundreds of tubes.

"What do we have today?" Laflamme asked. "Laptops and Palm Pilots."

"On my optimistic days I think we will have quantum computers in 20, 30, 40 years maybe," he said. "On my pessimistic days, I think quantum computing is crazy."



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 20, 2007, 07:48:26 pm
 :o You know, it's kinda neat thinking about artificial photosynthesis.
Ruthenium catalysts hold water molecules in place to make oxygen bonds while the protons and electrons are transferred among the molecules and the catalyst, providing the charges necessary to continue the photosynthesis process.

Here's a link that has more on information about natural and artificial processes;
http://www.dyesol.com/index.php?page=HowItWorks
Artificial photosynthesis is based on the concept of a dye analogous to chlorophyll absorbing light and thus generating electrons which enter the conduction band of a high surface area semiconductor film and further move through an external circuit, thus converting light into "green" power.

This is a two-step photovoltaic process, unlike the one step process of conventional PV.
(http://www.dyesol.com/index.php?element=artificial)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 21, 2007, 10:03:02 am
 :)  Wow, I didn’t realize that the entire universe was traveling at 10x’s the speed of light, (which IS, 186,282.397 per second, or roughly one foot per nanosecond, so you were right on target).  I guess the thought of stepping out of time and space is rather StarTrekian, LOL.  But scientific breakthroughs begin with writers like Jules Verne, planting the thought of what is possible, (and desirable), into the minds of the young scientists of the “next generation”,  (no pun intentended, LOL.). 

Interesting stuff on “quantum” computers.  If computers have totallly altered our lives already, then what will “quantum computers” do?   Personally I’m still waiting to be able to talk to these little modern miracles.  I have a few choice words to tell them about their “error messages”, LOL.  I still love the scene from the third “Star Trek” movie, where  Kirk, Spock, and Scotti go back in time to the 1990’s and try to sell “plastic metal” to a company.  (Scotti tries to talk to the computer, and when the executive points to the mouse, he picks it up and talks into it, LOL.)  All this typing!  As Scotti puts it, (how quaint!). 

The artificial photosynthis is great!  But when will it be affordable?  Working for GE, I can safely predict, “not until they can put a meter on the Sun, LOL.)   :P

P.S.  What link to your avatar?  Hey now it’s coming up with a blank box and an “X” ?
Who was the artist?   :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 21, 2007, 03:10:33 pm
Quote
still love the scene from the third “Star Trek” movie, where  Kirk, Spock, and Scotti go back in time to the 1990’s and try to sell “plastic metal” to a company. 
  Ah, you mean Transparent Alumium. I remember it....

Loved the idea. I wish I could type like Scottie. I actually found the picture about 5 months ago on a tattoo sight. I ended up using the picture for a desktop shot until I had a friend of mine design a back peice based on it, along with other ideas of mine and had it tattood right in the center of my back between my shoulders. The other picture I used for an avatar is almost exactly what I had done, but with other small details to bring it out. http://imagecache2.allposters.com


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 21, 2007, 06:53:49 pm
 :D http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1065/Mptv/1065/5088-0360.jpg.html?hint=nm0000559


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 22, 2007, 11:16:12 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/ISS_after_STS-118_in_August_2007.jpg/270px-ISS_after_STS-118_in_August_2007.jpg)


(http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/30/travelcenter/space_tourism/spacestation.jpg)
Artist's drawing of the proposed space station to be built out of empty shuttle fuel tanks. Space Island Group says it can build this station and a fleet of six shuttles and be flying passengers there for $1 million to $2 million each within seven years. (Courtesy: Space Island Group)


So far, I'm showing what some of the best present ideas are for space stations.
(http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/30/travelcenter/space_tourism/bigelow.jpg)
Artist's drawing of the planned space station using inflatable modules planned by Bigelow Aerospace. (Courtesy: Bigelow Aerospace)

To date these are the more sophisticated ideas presented by private enterprise.
Note the design disadvantages, when comparing them to the "Atlantis Online", space station we're discussing.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 22, 2007, 11:35:39 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Death_star1.png)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/TheLexx.jpg)


These look like self-assemling structures that could support huge fleets of astronauts that are oriented in all displines of science, engineering, and labor.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 22, 2007, 03:06:34 pm
(http://www.lunananoworks.com/images/trimetasphere2.gif)


This is one of the more inspiring early designs. I still can't find an image to do the imagination on this any justice.
Introducing an idea for the inner most structural plans for the station.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 24, 2007, 04:27:24 pm
 :)  Looks like a giant molecule in space!   :o

Reminds me of the Bio-spheres in a BBC space series where there were independent bio-spheres of various human habitats, some of whom knew nothing about the others.  And the entire mission was adrift and the captain and crew were all dead.  Some of them were trying to round up the individual bio-spheres to try to figure out how to man the ship and get it on course.   8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 24, 2007, 04:41:17 pm
I feel so much better......
 :)


Now all I need is a shot of something harsh and a prozack.

(kidding)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 24, 2007, 07:58:09 pm
12 things to consider about Interstellar Space Travel

1 - Physical Deterioration - Do not underrate it
2 - Wear and Breakdown - Always to be considered
3 - Radiation Hazards - It could be dangerously present
4 - Meteoroids - Eventually they would strike
5 - Repairs Unlikely - Yet breakdowns would surely occur
6 - Motion Sickness - It would have to be contended with
7 - Air Pollution - It is inevitable
8 - Energy Sources - They are inadequate
9 - Interpersonal Conflicts - Explosions would occur
10 - Distances Too Vast - They would doom the project
11 - Radio Contact - Do not forget this factor
12 - Objectives Unlikely - Might as well forget the whole idea



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 24, 2007, 08:10:19 pm
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/starbase/images/jupiter-4.jpg)
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/starbase/images/jupiter-2.jpg)
This is what movie magic uses to inspire the ideas that govern massive space stations.
We see them on the big screen imagining them as if we were about to be docking with it, and the same feelings fill us with the sence of awe.

(http://www.spaceislandgroup.com/Gallery/siggallery02.jpg)
(http://www.spaceislandgroup.com/Gallery/siggallery20.jpg)

Limitless possibilities come to mind when thinking design.
For the sake of a personal exploration into our mind's eye veiw, imagine what you would like to see when awakening from a heavenly sleep abourd a massive space station. What Ideas come to mind?
 Images are helpful.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 25, 2007, 09:46:40 am
 :)  When I look at designs like the above space station, they look awfully vulnerable to me.  Of course you’d love to have big windows to look out into the vast beauty of outer space.  But there’s a bid difference between glass to keep the dust and rain out of a house and the life and death situation of a broken window in a space station, LOL!

Until force shields are do-able, and not just theory, I think either heavy armor, or the mobility to dodge an asteroid shower is needed first.  And that kind of limits the design possibilities.   ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on September 25, 2007, 06:38:35 pm
Irises MD, Irises that open and close like on Stargate SG1!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 25, 2007, 08:15:30 pm
:)  When I look at designs like the above space station, they look awfully vulnerable to me.  Of course you’d love to have big windows to look out into the vast beauty of outer space.  But there’s a bid difference between glass to keep the dust and rain out of a house and the life and death situation of a broken window in a space station, LOL!

Until force shields are do-able, and not just theory, I think either heavy armor, or the mobility to dodge an asteroid shower is needed first.  And that kind of limits the design possibilities.   ::)

This is part of why I see this "bucky ball", design being the strongest most natural design of them all. Astroid strikes under no circumstance is a safe situation no matter how strong we build it. Quantum Computing, might make good on the promice of evasive manuvering capability, and better early detection. I think a means of defence against threats like astroids, or shadow goverment space crafts ;D could also be designed to preserve the crew and it's resources.

Let's face it, if this thing was ever built. I'm sure it would be for more then just Mars exploration.
I think it would become a complement of human acheivment and a symbol of what passionate ideas can accomplish. Instead of us repeating what we've done wrong all these years.

We can finally be free to explore the heavens and our own humanity, without restiction or permission.
Discuss goals that teams can and want to accomplish, and turn them loose. With whatever they feel it's going to take to do it, they use quantum computing to cross-referrence information about their pursuit.
Producing the figures it will take to get started, all the raw materials they need will be at their disposal for free.

Money will no longer have a purpose.....





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on September 26, 2007, 01:22:06 am
***THE SPHERE*** is the Ultimate Design of the  Universe. [you little star trek idiots? and all your spaceshi appendages of inferior design] go take a f****n hike!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 26, 2007, 03:23:07 pm
***THE SPHERE*** is the Ultimate Design of the  Universe. [you little star trek idiots? and all your spaceshi appendages of inferior design] go take a f****n hike!

 :o I want some of what you aren't sharin' man. (kiddin)
Naturally, a sphere is a more universal design, yet unique to all we know in regaurds to space station construction.
 



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 27, 2007, 03:09:50 pm
 :)  Well Newton's favorite shape was the "orb", (at least according to the Divinci code, LOL).  And I know that Tesla's favorite shape was the sphere.  So you've got some heavy weights on your side of that opinion, DDnD.  But what's with the 'tude, man, LOL. 

I guess Irises would work Qoais.  (Say what threads have you been hiding out in lately?, LOL).  ;)

Actually I think our space station would be a whole lot safer place to live than on good old terra firma, (which isn't always so "firma" if you know what I mean, LOL).  If an asteriod misses your house by 3.000 miles in outer space, you're fine.  But if it misses your house by 3,000 miles on the surface of the earth, you could be toast!

I think until they invent some kind of asteriod and comet deflector for the earth, we'd all be safer either 2 miles below the earth or 200 miles above it, LOL.    8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 27, 2007, 04:08:32 pm
Which now brings us to why the size of this space station bound for Mars and/or beyond is important.
It literally has to be huge for several reasons. Now before we get into this, I just want to show you all something that I got a kick out of.

On July 3, 2004, soon after orbital insertion around Saturn, the unmanned spacecraft Cassini sent this disturbing image back to Earth.

Photo courtesy
NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute
A new Death Star?
 
While many believed this to be proof of the existence of a new Death Star in our very own solar system, it turns out that's no space station. This is a picture of Mimas. Mimas is one of the 31 moons of Saturn. It's 247 miles across (398 kilometers) and sports a huge crater named Herschel that is 80 miles wide (130 kilometers). This picture was taken by the Cassini spacecraft from about a million miles (1.7 million kilometers) away!
Ready?















(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/death-star-12.jpg) Yes!

Looks almost exactly like the Death Star huh?
Photo courtesy
NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 27, 2007, 04:18:45 pm
Simply put, the Death Star is the most ambitious space station project in Galactic history. It takes more than a million military personnel to run this station, which is the size of a small moon.

But the Death Star is no moon. Despite its size, the Death Star can still travel at superluminal velocities just like spacecraft with only a fraction of its mass. But the real power and purpose of the Death Star lies in its Superlaser. The Death Star's Superlaser is capable of firing a beam of directed energy powerful enough to completely destroy a planet of any size! Needless to say, nothing quells chaos and disorder faster than the threat of total planetary annihilation.

The Death Star represents the absolute pinnacle of military engineering and technology.
The Death Star's real-space propulsion system is made up of a network of ion engines that use converters to transform reactor power into thrust. The engine thrusters are primarily lined along the equator of the station.

Hyperspace travel is made possible with linked banks of hyperdrive field generators. Each bank contains 123 hyperdrive field generators. They are all tied together into one navigational matrix that is controlled from the overbridge.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 27, 2007, 04:19:41 pm
Now what can we do different then the creators of the Death Star?  ;D

For one; Let's replace the super weapon with a communication trans./rec. dish?
Let's try a think tank on this one.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 27, 2007, 05:00:48 pm
 :)  Darth Vader:  "Don't be too proud of this technological invention.  There is still nothing more powerful in the universe than the force!"

LOL,  8)   ::)

Okay supposedly this is why Tesla didn't finish his wireless power transmission facility that would come to be known as Wardenclyffe.  What can be used for good, can be used for evil, in the wrong hands, LOL.

We have to first invent a "good guys" test before anyone boards our space station, LOL.   ::)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 27, 2007, 08:18:54 pm
:)  Darth Vader:  "Don't be too proud of this technological invention.  There is still nothing more powerful in the universe than the force!"

LOL,  8)   ::)

Okay supposedly this is why Tesla didn't finish his wireless power transmission facility that would come to be known as Wardenclyffe.  What can be used for good, can be used for evil, in the wrong hands, LOL.

We have to first invent a "good guys" test before anyone boards our space station, LOL.   ::)




Even if you were joking on this, I agree with that seriously.
We would definitely have to screen each member of the crew with unbias, nondisciminate, tests.
Any thought on this?

 :)

Remember the poor families that have no other options and want to be a part of history.
Who are no less human and could prove to be a huge success. They tend to be more passionate and pocess a drive to excell when encouraged properly. Most have an excellent work ethic and creative work abilities.

Then we have to think beyond and seek technical experience and knowledge. Basically engineers, programmers and machinist. Then geologists and Phd's in a multitute of displines. Aviation designers and Drafters. Builders and finally spiritualist. This would cover technical feilds.
"Us"..
We could also seek those who offer care and compassion. Those who make others watch as they perform an artistic expression of anykind. Constructed parks, and new found talents could be shared to spur on the imaginative thinking the creates culture.
Laws- This is something that really challenges the imagination. I say this because goverment started this way and we agreed that this is totally not in the play book. Yet we need some type of disiplined structure in place to prevent others from being victomized in a any way, shape, or form. Without commiting crimes ourselves, or being hypocrits. Definitely a tough one, and a limited amount of ideas.
Another first in many that we can attribute to the launch.
Money has no worth or meaning, because again that deals with politics. I feel we have to steer away from those things that feul stress and burden to open up our souls for grander things. All money does is complicate our life from doing whats simple and ethical. In our space station, we could use an exchange system like barter for material things.

Duty is the barter for the good of everyone on board.
There's alot to cover on this, however I'm game for discussion.
Again, if any of you want to offer any ideas on this. Fire away.
Qoais inspired alot of this idea right from the beginning. I love the idea though and I apologize for obsessing over it.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 28, 2007, 02:26:27 pm
 :)  No need to apologize.  I was only half joking when I mentioned the “good guy” test.  It would be foolish to build such a marvel and then let it be destroyed or misused by the wrong people. The astronauts were all put through rigorous physiological testing.  (Although you can always get into crazy situation like the love triangle with that woman astronaut in Florida, LOL). 

But the social structure of the space station is sidetracking us into politics.  Unless we populate it with androids like “Data” we’re bound to have all the “human” problems we face here on earth.  Let’s first concentrate on the construction of the space station itself.  Maybe it’s beautiful enough no one will have the “heart” to mess it up, (even the bankers and lawyers, LOL).

By the way, what is powering this bad boy?  Have we talked about that?  Fusion is still down the road.  Are we talking dilithym crystals, aka Star Trek?  Or have we unearthed an Atlantean Fire Stone, LOL.  I hear those babies packed a wallop, LOL.  8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 03:20:59 pm
:)  No need to apologize.  I was only half joking when I mentioned the “good guy” test.  It would be foolish to build such a marvel and then let it be destroyed or misused by the wrong people. The astronauts were all put through rigorous physiological testing.  (Although you can always get into crazy situation like the love triangle with that woman astronaut in Florida, LOL). 

But the social structure of the space station is sidetracking us into politics.  Unless we populate it with androids like “Data” we’re bound to have all the “human” problems we face here on earth.  Let’s first concentrate on the construction of the space station itself.  Maybe it’s beautiful enough no one will have the “heart” to mess it up, (even the bankers and lawyers, LOL).

By the way, what is powering this bad boy?  Have we talked about that?  Fusion is still down the road.  Are we talking dilithym crystals, aka Star Trek?  Or have we unearthed an Atlantean Fire Stone, LOL.  I hear those babies packed a wallop, LOL.  8)

  LOL

It's like talking to a human clone of myself when you respond. Your crazy dude, just like me.

Anyhow, I have this crazy idea about tidal force creating electricity.
I'll be back to explain this more shortly.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 03:40:02 pm
Ready for this? 

According to scientists, it is possible to create propulsion systems for terrestrial spacecrafts that utilizes super-gravity-neutralizers. The problem is not in creating an opening to the hyperspace in a controlled space. The biggest issues surround the fact that once the hyperspace opening is created, how to control the infusion force because the propulsion force must be controlled so that navigation and guidance can take place smoothly.

Scientists say the concepts are on the drawing boards of the space agencies in different countries. The classified projects are little talked or mentioned by the officials.

The biggest advantage of these types of propulsion system is that it can be endless because the source of energy is endless. Once the opening is created to the hyperspace, the spatial position of the opening moves with the spacecraft. The onboard computers quickly compute the 3-D spatial equivalent of the 5-D spatial position. As a result the virtual opening to hyperspace remains alive during the flight of the space module and it provides energy continuously from the hyperspace.

Think about it – the endless gravity in the universe is available from the suction of the hyperspace through openings that extends from the Physical Universe to the Hyperspace. Similarly spacecrafts with propulsion systems that work with similar concepts have endless source of energy and hence the space travel can be endless and free of energy cost! When our station isn't traveling, electrical energy can be produced from true propetual motion devices because at it's core, no gravity could exist within. Unless artificial gravity was an option, which is not available at the moment. Gyroscopic generation of electricity,
would go into motion and stay in motion, friction free. As theory has it.


Fire away!




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 07:07:25 pm
Another perspective on hyper-space travel come from this artical I found to see who is currently working on a system.

 This scenario may sound like fantasy, but physicists, encouraged by recent interest in the work of German scientist Burkhard Heim, believe his hyperspace propulsion idea could become a proven concept within five years. Heim’s theory adds two forces to Einstein’s four-dimensional space-time: one, a repulsive anti-gravity force similar to dark energy that appears to expand the universe; the other force would accelerate spacecraft without using any fuel.

            If Heim’s idea works, it will radically change space travel. Forget spending six months holed up in a rocket on the way to Mars, a round trip on the hyperdrive could take as little as five hours. Worries about astronauts’ muscles wasting away will disappear. What’s more, the device will put travel to the stars within reach for the first time.

             The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics awards prizes for the best papers presented each year. Last year’s winner went to a paper authored by physicist Jochem Hauser, calling for experimental tests of Heim’s theory. “This hyperdrive motor”, Hauser said, “would propel a craft through another dimension at enormous speeds. It could reach a star eleven light years away in eighty days”.

            The US government believes this theory could become reality; researcher Roger Lenard at Department of Energy’s Sandia National Laboratories says he can test the idea with their “Z” machine, which can generate the necessary field intensities and gradients. NASA and the Department of Defense are also expressing interest in hyperspace engines.

            Enthusiasts believe our future lies in space. “Our job is to help life spread from this planet and make the rest of the universe as beautiful and varied as Earth”, said legendary physicist Freeman Dyson. “Dead worlds may be beautiful, just as deserts may be beautiful, but worlds full of life will give birth to a far wider range of beauty”.

            Princeton’s J. Richard Gott III believes space colonization is necessary to prevent our species from becoming extinct. Although Homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, there is no guarantee of survival if we remain only on Earth. Colonies in space would provide insurance against catastrophes that could obliterate life on a single planet.

            “Space colonies are an incredible bargain”, Gott says. “One only has to send a few astronauts. They then multiply at no further cost to us: the colonists do all the work, and colonies can establish other colonies”.

            As we trek into our “magical future”, aided by technologies we cannot even imagine today, it is easy for this writer to believe that by 2150 or before, more humans could live in space than on Earth. We will always keep in touch with these hearty space pioneers, because sharing experiences of life in a strange new world will enrich us all.

 ;D

Love it.

http://www.betterhumans.com/blogs/futuretalk/archive/2006/01/17/4086.aspx


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 07:59:37 pm
First thing, first.


To begin with we would need to launch our "super computer" and satellite systems for control of self constructing materials. One of the more practical ways of doing this is the rail-gun systems we discussed earlier on.

The actual science that can accomplish this is a navel design that is already in existence.

Pulsed Power System for Naval
Electromagnetic Launch Development
(http://www.ga.com/atg/EMS/images/EM-gun.jpg)

A team led by General Atomics has started work on developing and testing a proof-of-concept (PoC) pulsed power system for Naval Electromagnetic (EM) Launch Systems. GA’s team members are Titan and the University of Texas Center for Electromechanics (UT-CEM).

The mission of the PoC Pulsed Power System demonstration is to provide a reliable, full-scale pulsed power platform on which to conduct launcher and projectile testing, pulsed power development testing, ship integration testing, and critical component development testing.

The team will fabricate approximately 8 MJ of capacitors of the design selected for the PoC Pulsed Power System; fabricate, assemble, and factory test the PoC prototype PFN assembly comprised of modules totaling approximately 8 MJ; and develop an EM launcher system model. The model will contain functional elements for major subsystems including the PPS, launcher, and projectile. It will be capable of simulating power flow, launcher electrical performance, and basic flight performance of the projectile. From this, a conceptual design and cost-estimate for the pulsed power system will be generated.


Joel Drake, Project Manager joel.drake@ga.com
 ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 08:06:29 pm
Next
Materials.....
According to Geoffrey A. Ozin.
An extension of this research has led the Ozin group to earth-based 1G and space-based µG investigations of the synthesis and crystal growth of their self-assembling nanoporous electronic materials. This work has been funded by the Canadian Space Agency over the period 1993-1996. The essence of this project, is to take advantage of the fact that deleterious sedimentation and convection effects that abound in their earth-based synthesis-crystal growth experiments, do not exist under the quiescent state of a microgravity-based analogous experiment. In this way the group hopes to be able to "harvest in space", larger and higher quality crystals of their nanoporous semiconductors, that are as free as possible of the unwanted crystal defects that generally form in their earth-grown crystal samples. Achievement of this goal is expected to enhance the electrical conductivity and optical properties of their crystals which should improve their efficacy for future semiconductor device applications envisaged for these materials.

As we have all researched, here at atlantis online. Crystals store energy.
It doesn't have to be just crystals that can be grown though.

This materials chemistry microgravity experiment will be one of the first of its kind to perform a simultaneous synthesis and growth procedure in space. The experiment will be fully automated. The specially designed reactor will perform 38 synthesis-material growth experiments with comprehensive on-board computer recording of the progress of the entire system. Prototype experiments have been optimized in the Ozin group laboratory. Once the space-grown samples are recovered, the reaction profiles of the experiments will be evaluated and the syntheses will be immediately duplicated under earth-based conditions. Analysis of a wide range of the physicochemical properties of the space and earth-generated nanoporous semiconductor crystals will allow the group to evaluate the effects of microgravity on the synthesis-material growth process.

This microgravity experiment has the official name NANOGAS (in the jargon of the Canadian Space Agency, the experiment is referred to as a "Get-Away-Special"). It is a joint venture between the Canadian Space Agency (funding, technical support), Communication Development in New Brunswick (flight hardware), the U. of T. Chemistry Department (facilities, services) and the Ozin group. The experiment was carried on a NASA Space Shuttle flight in May 1996, STS-77. The samples were recovered later and the ground and space-based samples will be analyzed over a period of about six months. The results of this research will be announced towards the end of 1996.

 :) Problem here is, after 1996 not a word of this has been mentioned.
Musta worked huh?


In short as we covered already.
SAM reagents are used for electrochemical, optical and other detection systems. Self-Assembled Monolayers (SAMs) are uni-directional layers formed on a solid surface by spontaneous organization of molecules. Thiol compounds and gold is one of the well-established combinations. Research areas include electron transfer mechanisms of proteins, molecular layers and biosensors. Dojindo offers SAM reagents with various functional groups and chain lengths.
Let's reveiw what make this work in our experiment using a SAM form of metal rubber.

Of course the primary materials will be mined from asteroids.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 08:28:01 pm
What I'm leading up to.
Unlike the sort of liquid crystals found in digital displays, which change in response to temperature or an electromagnetic field, Gin uses lyotropic liquid crystals; in addition to changes in temperature, these respond to additives and changes in the chemical solution in which they are immersed.

"The design of unique lyotropic liquid crystals is the key to everything that follows," says Gin. Basically, he works with chemicals known as polymerizable surfactants. "Like laundry soap, they're made of amphiphilic monomers" -- molecules, each of which has a hydrophilic (water-loving) end and a hydrophobic (water-fearing) end. When the amphiphilic molecules of laundry soap form a droplet in water, all their water-loving heads point outward and their water-fearing tails point inward -- where they may surround a glob of grease or dirt. The technical name for a soap droplet is "micelle;" by adding more and more monomers, spherical micelles can self-organize and lengthen into cylinders.

Instead of submerging his monomers in water, Gin reduces the amount of water in his system and designs monomers to form "inverse" cylindrical micelles with their water-loving heads inward. Meanwhile the water-fearing tails on the outside of the tubes seek each other's company, and the tubes pack themselves into hexagons, the tightest possible geometric packing arrangement. After the hexagonal architecture is locked in place, says Gin, "We can do ordinary synthetic-organic chemistry inside the channels."

Using two different kinds of monomers and two different filler precursors, Gin and his colleagues have already demonstrated two novel self-organizing nanocomposites with unique properties. In one technique the liquid-crystal matrix has been formed in a solution containing a precursor to poly(para-phenylenevinylene) -- a light-emitting, electrically conducting polymer, more often called PPV -- which fills the tubes. When Gin turns up the heat, the precursor converts to PPV inside the tubes to form what is effectively a bundle of long, discrete, exceedingly fine wires. His group has made uniformly oriented films of this material up to eight centimeters wide, yet only 30 to 100 microns thick. Nanoscale materials often show markedly different properties from the same materials in bulk, and PPV is no exception: Gin's hexagonal matrix of PPV has over twice the fluorescence, per unit volume, of PPV in bulk.

In related work, Gin is studying an entirely different liquid-crystal system, which uses a different monomer to build the hexagonal-tube framework and a different filler precursor, tetraethyl orthosilicate, in a solution of water and ethanol. The solution also includes a small amount of a chemical that generates an acid when illuminated. In the presence of the acid the precursor converts to silicate glass -- even at room temperature.

Because of the hexagonal array of confining channels, the glassy composite has a fine, nanoscale structure quite unlike that of normal amorphous glass or plastic. Gin and his colleagues describe it as "a tough, pale-yellow, slightly opaque, glassy material . . . completely insoluble in common organic solvents and water." It promises unusual properties, including hardness, now under investigation.

The two composites so far created using custom-made lyotropic liquid crystals are promising steps on the path to true nanometer-scale materials engineering.

"Three years ago I started with this crazy idea that self-assembling liquid crystals could be used to make nanomaterials in bulk," says Douglas Gin. "Now my new graduate students make a hundred grams a week of some of these liquid crystals, just as a training exercise. I think we have a viable system."

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/liquid-crystal-nano.html

Instead of crystals, I'm thinking of a new material we can call Phenylenevinylene-Tritanium-Carbide or PTC
 :D
If John Hutchison was able to infuse wood and steel and the sub-atomic level using electro-static waves, this can work to.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 28, 2007, 08:40:37 pm
Now with the information published, what do you think MD?
Q?

Take aim and shoot folks....
Have a great evening and we'll see ya tomarrow.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on September 29, 2007, 01:44:53 am
*#* Wh@t The Fuk are you talking about?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 29, 2007, 12:26:28 pm
I'm on the subject of ways private enterprise, could implement the idea of a self-assembling interplanetary space station shaped like a giant flying buck ball. Now, what's your problem DDDnD3D?

Let me guess you read a little bit of it and poof, you got lost right?
I'll bring you up to speed here buddy. It's just a thought, that has alot of potential.
Cool?

 ::) Mean time between time, have a beer and chill dude.
 http://www.deezer.com/?urlIdSong=31150
If that doesn't work, close your eyes and listen to this...
http://www.deezer.com/?urlIdSong=20424


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 30, 2007, 03:33:02 pm
Here is an idea that haunts me that has a small connection to what were discussing and Atlantis.
I view this subject from a more spiritual perspective which is based mainly on the Edgar Cayce psychic material.

Cayce said that the priest Ra Ta (Cayce himself) worked with the gods Horus and Thoth to create this wonder of the world in 10,500 BC after Atlantis went down for the final time. He said the pyramid was constructed for these purposes:

1) it was a religious temple of some sort

2) it tells the destiny of our human race in the markings on the walls inside the pyramid. and in fact the 'pyramid inch' unit of measure was carved into the wall inside the pyramid to tell people how to interpret these markings. notice one pathway goes up to the top of the pyramid and the other goes down into a bottomless pit under the pyramid. the 'chamber of chaos'.

3) it was intended to be a mystery that people would wonder about


When people first went into the pyramid in modern times they found the sarchophagus broken. Cayce said it was Christ Himself (Thoth) who broke it to symbolize His victory over death.

The number 27 comes up in a few places.

There were 27 pairs of resonators in the pyramid at one time.

The nineteenth century inventor John Worrell Keely claimed to have discovered twenty-seven particulate structures underlying the proton.

Notice 27 = 3 * 3 * 3.

The number 3 is the most mysterious number in the universe. Thus the great god Poseidon carries the trident at all times and the god is always associated with the number 3.

The mathematical value 'pi' is 3 plus a fractional number that never ends. Infinity.

22 over 7 = 3.14
People who are interested in these types of subjects will probably enjoy hearing Al Bielek talk about The Philadelphia Experiment. Bielek claims he was transported 40 years into the future during the 1940s along with his brother Duncan. When they observed their brother Jimmy embedded in the hull of the ship when it started to re-materialize Duncan jumped overboard and got left in the future.

Eventually the CIA transferred their souls into other bodies and they had to grow up all over again.  ::)

Ufo...Contact from Planet Iarga

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0960855815/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk/102-8793034-7744945


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 01, 2007, 03:02:05 pm
 :)  Hey, no fair.  You get to use the computer on the weekends at your house, with all your kids, LOL.  You wrote more than I have time to comment on, LOL.   ::) 

QUOTE:

Quote
The biggest issues surround the fact that once the hyperspace opening is created, how to control the infusion force because the propulsion force must be controlled so that navigation and guidance can take place smoothly.


Hans Solo:  “Navigating through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops boy”, LOL.

 
QUOTE:

Quote
If Heim’s idea works, it will radically change space travel. Forget spending six months holed up in a rocket on the way to Mars, a round trip on the hyperdrive could take as little as five hours
.

That long?  If we believe the tales of some UFO abductees, than it’s possible to travel a whole lot faster than that.

QUOTE:

Quote
Enthusiasts believe our future lies in space. “Our job is to help life spread from this planet and make the rest of the universe as beautiful and varied as Earth”


I can hear the grey aliens saying, “Oh, #!#, there goes the neighborhood”, LOL.  Of course that is our destiny!  And with killer comets on the loose, we’d better do this soon or go the way of the dinosaurs! 

QUOTE:

 
Quote
Now with the information published, what do you think MD? Q?

Q?   Yeah, how much energy does it take to open the hyperspace portal, and keep it open?  I hope this isn’t one of those perpetual energy theories that takes more energy to produce than it creates, LOL. 



QUOTE: 

Quote
22 over 7 = 3.14…  Notice 27 = 3 * 3 * 3…..   The number 3 is the most mysterious number…

What no number 23?  LOL. 

Sorry, I guess I’m in a comical mood today. 

Berlitz never covered the Al Bielek story in his Philadelphia book.  I guess he thought it a little hard to believe.  I myself thought that this part was all made up in the movie version of the story.  But it all relates to what you’ve said here about hyper-drive.  And although getting into other dimensions becomes a little mind boggling, this is exactly what I was driving at with all that stuff about the complex motion of the stellar bodies in our own dimension. 

I have my own “crazy” theory of why the ancients were so astrologically preoccupied.  The reason I’m a “ley-line” enthusiast, Tesla fan, “Philadelphia Experimenter”, “Bermuda Triangularist “ and Atlantis “freak” is that I think I know what they were doing when they built all these “God knows how old” megalithic stone structures.   
Have you ever heard of a little known phenomenon called “spontaneous teleportation”?

Richard Lefors Clark has advanced a theory that what is happening in the Bermuda Triangle is that if you are in the wrong place, (i.e. an energy vortex), you could be suddenly become a permanent piece of space junk.

QUOTE FROM:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid03.htm#Diamagnetic%20Gravity%20Vortexes (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid03.htm#Diamagnetic%20Gravity%20Vortexes)


Official knowledge of the considerable utility of many magnetic-gravity anomaly points on the Grid has taken obvious precedence over any concerns for public safety. If the officials warned the fools in planes and boats to stay out of the Bermuda Triangle at certain times, then ordinary citizens would know too much of their secret knowledge. If you are in the wrong place on the wrong day in the Bermuda Triangle you will be a permanent piece of space junk some 20,000 to 75,000 miles out in space.


Clark believes this is because the vortex at the right time and place makes things weightless.  But I think it actually teleports things through time and space. 

Berlitz in one of his books recounts perhaps the best documentated case of spontaneous teleportation

TAKEN FROM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation)

Historical, mythical and religious accounts:
Religious traditions
Accounts of miraculous teleportation occur in a number of religious traditions, such as Tay al-Ard ("folding of the earth") in Islam; Kefitzat Haderech ("the shortening of the way") in Judaism. Teleportation is also known in Tibetan Buddhism.

 Gil Perez
There have been many alleged accounts of teleportation. One of the best known is said to have occurred on the evening of October 24, 1593, to Gil Perez.
A Guardia Civil, Gil Perez, is said to have appeared suddenly in a confused state in the Plaza Mayor of Mexico City, wearing the uniform of a Philippine regiment. He claimed that moments before finding himself in Mexico he had been on sentry duty in Manila at the governor’s palace. He admitted that while he was aware that he was no longer in the Philippines, he had no idea where he was or how he came to be there. He said the governor, Don Gomez Perez Dasmariñas, had been assassinated.
When it was explained to him that he was now in Mexico City, Perez refused to believe it saying that he had received his orders on the morning of October 23 in Manila and that it was therefore impossible for him to be in Mexico City on the evening of the 24th. The authorities placed Perez in jail, as a deserter and for the possibility that he may have been in the service of Satan. The Most Holy Tribunal of the Inquisition questioned the soldier, but all he could say in his defense was that he had traveled from Manila to Mexico "in less time than it takes a **** to crow".
Two months later, news from the Philippines arrived by Manila Galleon, confirming the fact of the literal axing on October 23 of Dasmariñas in a mutiny of Chinese rowers, as well as other points of the mysterious soldier’s fantastic story. Witnesses confirmed that Gil Perez had indeed been on duty in Manila just before arriving in Mexico. Furthermore, one of the passengers on the ship recognized Perez and swore that he had seen him in the Philippines on October 23. Gil Perez eventually returned to the Philippines and took up his former position as a palace guard, living thenceforth an apparently uneventful life.
This account has received wide circulation, but historian Mike Dash notes [7] that there are some problems with the story which call its accuracy into question. Perhaps most importantly, he notes that the earliest extant accounts of Perez's mysterious disappearance date from more than a century after the supposed events. Though Perez was supposedly held for some time on suspicion of witchcraft, no records of his imprisonment or interrogation have been found.


There isn’t a lot that I’ve found on line about this phenomenon.  There’s another story in more recent time about a family in Maine traveling in their car who suddenly found themselves driving down a road in Argentina.  The times and dates involved with that case make it impossible for them to have traveled there, let alone bring their car. 

I think that it is possible to use the Earth’s electromatic field to create a hyperdementional bridge to other planets.  Furthermore I think this is “one” of the purposes of the ley lines and the megalythic structures we find in ruins all over the surface of the earth in a percise geometric pattern. 

So in short, do I think hyperdrive is possible?  Well duh, Yeah I do!  Furthermore, I think this kind of stuff happens as a natural phenomenon, (rarely, but it happens).  When it does, nobody believes it, or can explain it, so like the rest of what science doesn’t “get” it just doesn’t exist.  The Philly Experiment?  That was a big surprise to all those involved.  And If we are to believe the “whole” story, it ends with an even more incredible tale than Al Bielek’s.  Supposedly right after the experiment the “galactic” version of the E.P.A. landed and told them “stop doing what they we doing because they were messing up time and space”, or they’d blow our planet up!  Holy Death Star!, LOL.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 01, 2007, 03:26:18 pm
More into suppressed technology about related sciences.
Corporate Author : NATIONAL AIR INTELLIGENCE CENTER WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB OH

Handle / proxy Url : http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA301257             Check NTIS Availability...

Report Date : 25 SEP 1995

Pagination or Media Count : 21

Abstract : The Salute Gun design bureau was established in March 1951. At that time, it was composed of an aircraft manufacturing plant specializing in the production of heavy bombers which produced 3M(M4) model long range bombers which are still in use even today as well as the first M50 model supersonic bombers. In 1960, the factory was reorganized to be a space rocket design bureau. In the 1960's and 1970's, it built the Proton delivery rockets (which have already been fired over 200 times). In conjunction with that, it began producing 20 ton heavy model space craft. In the 1970's and 1980's, it independently or together in combined production groups with Energy scientific research, manufactured, and, in conjunction with that, launched Salute Gun space stations, the Peace orbital station, the Cosmos series satellites (Cosmos 929, Cosmos 1267, Cosmos 1443, Cosmos 1682, and so on), as well as the Quantum, Quantum 2, the Crystal, and other similar science modules. At the present time, they are preparing to produce the Spectrum and Nature modules. In the period 1986-1987, it built the first space craft with a weight reaching 100 tons--the Polar Region. On 15 May 1987, it carried out the first launch using an Energy delivery rocket. The mission scope of the Salute Gun design bureau is very broad. It manufactures various models of delivery rockets used as booster stages to send space craft into deep space, freighter ships and orbital stations, returnable type space craft and resealable modules, etc. (KAR) p. 4

Descriptors :   *LAUNCHING, *SPACE FLIGHT, STATIONS, ORBITS, DELIVERY, SPACECRAFT, PEACETIME, PRODUCTION, MODELS, ENERGY, PROTONS, TRANSLATIONS, GUNS, SPACE STATIONS, BOOSTER ROCKET ENGINES, DEEP SPACE, ROCKETS, CHINA, BOMBER AIRCRAFT, SCIENTIFIC SATELLITES, RUSSIAN EQUIPMENT.

Subject Categories : ASTRONAUTICS

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 01, 2007, 03:47:21 pm
Quote
Yeah, how much energy does it take to open the hyperspace portal, and keep it open?  I hope this isn’t one of those perpetual energy theories that takes more energy to produce than it creates, LOL. 


Actually, the energy is endless once you get the gate open and enter it.
As the theory of this goes.

Quote
Clark believes this is because the vortex at the right time and place makes things weightless.  But I think it actually teleports things through time and space. 


I would have to agree with you on this MD. When you think about it, just because there might be an absents of gravity doesn't always mean your going to ascend upward. In fact, the direction your going in, you will travel in until you are stopped or thrusted into another direct for which you will travel in endlessly.

Thing is, there is no mention of bodies being found floating around in orbit.
It's abit shady...........

Quote
Berlitz never covered the Al Bielek story in his Philadelphia book.  I guess he thought it a little hard to believe.  I myself thought that this part was all made up in the movie version of the story.  But it all relates to what you’ve said here about hyper-drive.  And although getting into other dimensions becomes a little mind boggling, this is exactly what I was driving at with all that stuff about the complex motion of the stellar bodies in our own dimension. 

I have my own “crazy” theory of why the ancients were so astrologically preoccupied.  The reason I’m a “ley-line” enthusiast, Tesla fan, “Philadelphia Experimenter”, “Bermuda Triangularist “ and Atlantis “freak” is that I think I know what they were doing when they built all these “God knows how old” megalithic stone structures.   
Have you ever heard of a little known phenomenon called “spontaneous teleportation”?


It's interesting the you mention star systems and formations. If you ever get the chance to look it up, look at all the ancient Egyptian locations of pyramids and temples and then compare it to the gallatic center. What you'll find is an almost exact map of the sky with the nile representing the milkyways belt, and the pyramids marking pacific stars, revealing our loction in the Milkyway.
Seriously!

Now do you care to offer a theory as to why they did this?  ;)

Quote
Hans Solo:  “Navigating through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops boy”, LOL.


Quantum computing is the only answer for navigation. Hand Solo might want to switch hands...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 02, 2007, 10:30:47 am
 :)  QUOTE:

Quote
It's interesting the you mention star systems and formations. If you ever get the chance to look it up, look at all the ancient Egyptian locations of pyramids and temples and then compare it to the gallatic center. What you'll find is an almost exact map of the sky with the nile representing the milkyways belt, and the pyramids marking pacific stars, revealing our loction in the Milkyway.
Seriously!
Now do you care to offer a theory as to why they did this?


Well my signature quote covers that, LOL.  “AS ABOVE SO BELOW”, LOL.  But I guess that’s only a reason for and not an actual answer to that question.

Of course I’m familiar with Giza being compared to a star map of the Sirius system.  Then of course the entire layout of the cities of the “old ones” the  "Anasazi" in the American southwest and Mexico are compared to a star map. 

But you are the first one to suggest that the entire world may be a star map with Egypt as the Galactic center, (if that is what you are suggesting?)  That’s a most intriguing thought.  People have come up with all sorts of geometric explanations of how all the megalithic sites all over the world are aligned.  But to my knowledge no one has suggested that the entire world is laid out as an earthly representation of the stars.

In the case of Egypt, most would suggest that this is a graphic representation of a specific point in time when the stars were exactly so positioned.  But I personally believe that they were aligning the magnetic field, (and gravitational, and electrical… oh heck, let’s just say the entire energy field), of the earth with all the other energy fields of the sun and the planets and the stars. 

At certain times when the positions of the planets and or star are properly aligned, I personally think either communication with those places or teleportation to those places is possible.  From all my research the entire planet was crisscrossed with a network of megalithic stone structures in an effort to “pattern” and pool the earth’s naturally random energy patterns to certain key places, (places like Giza).  These places look like the work of crude Stone Age people, but they were not crude looking when they were constructed.  They are just so astoundingly old that they no longer have smooth cut edges. 

This took an amazing effort to achieve, and my understanding of human nature tells me that there’s no way this was done for religious purposes.  There’s always been, and will probably only be, one reason why men build anything on a large scale: PROFIT.  If they didn’t stand to gain anything that would either put food in their bellies or gold in their pockets, then only a gun to the heads of every man involved would have gotten them quarry and move all those massive stone megaliths, LOL. 

Long answer short:  I think the reason the megaliths are laid out according to the stars, was they used the earth’s own energy field, (magnetic, gravitational, electrical, and it’s very place in time and space), to travel to those far away places.  Not with crude rocket ships, or even sophisticated gravitational drive flying saucers, but by bending time and space and bringing “the mountain to Mohammed” so to speak, LOL. 

Say did you ever see that original Star Trek TV series episode where there’s a metal version of a stone arch?  Kirk, Spock, and Bones go through the arch and they’re back in time on earth.  The arch was a gateway to another time and place built by ancient aliens.  The whole episode was very much like “Stargate Atlantis”.   

Yeah, it’s kinda like that, LOL. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: KaosMonst3r on October 02, 2007, 02:54:59 pm
Yeah wassup crackpot? u know who this is here for now. now i'm gonna shoot holes all in yo work.
or at least try to. first I have to actually READ it........ ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 02, 2007, 04:00:54 pm
Yeah wassup crackpot? u know who this is here for now. now i'm gonna shoot holes all in yo work.
or at least try to. first I have to actually READ it........ ;D


Yes I do know who this is, and you are welcome to shoot it full of holes all you want. As I told you before, that is what this thread needs.  ;D

BTW, your still ugly.  LOL kiddin


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 02, 2007, 04:34:23 pm
Please exuse my manors. MDsungate I would like to introduce a personal friend of mine from here in town.
KaosMonst3r......
Kaos, this is a buddy of mine from afar and good clone MDsungate!

Kaos is an artist, and hard working young man. He is also a very intellectual person when it comes to everything we discuss. I told him about our giant interplanetary flying bucky ball, and he could not resist the oppurtunity to join the forum. If you see him and I locking horns on ideas, please don't be alarmed.
We do this daily on all kinds of ideas and theories. However, we keep each other honest about how feisible these things really are to do.

He also pocesses a wealth of information that might be extremely interesting to many of the others.
I think him and Unknown are definitely going to hit it off once Kaos explores some of the other subjects within.

Kaos- Pagan is alot like the people your used to hanging out with too. She's on the proper, yet goth side of the spectrum in thought. She's also brutally honest about how she feels. As are you!
I encourage you to look through some of the subject lines.

Peace to you both my brothers....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 03, 2007, 11:12:40 am
Once upon a long time ago, I had access to Bob Lazar's web site.  A lot of people think he was a fraud, altho now, one can't access the site.  Whether he was really a qualified scientists or not, his explanation of bending gravity was basically "bringing the mountain to Mohammed".  It's too bad the web site is gone because he also had a demonstration showing the power source of the alien ships.  Basically, it was very, very simple as most good systems are.  Very few moving parts to wear out.  But we don't have element 115 here on earth.

Maybe someone can try to access his website at http://www.boblazar.com/ and let me know if they get in or if it's operational.  When you first go there, you get a password but my computer doesn't either remember it, ot the site isn't working anymore.  I think everyone gets the same password, but one must at least remember it!

Check out this site regarding hyperdimentional physics at work creating man-made hurricanes with pentoganal centres instead of round.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/weblog/2005/08/hyperdimensional-katrina.html

There's a lot to read there but I'm sure you'll find it facinating.

As for the earth being patterned after space - why not?  Whoever created the planets out of chaos or whatever, probably WAS following a pattern themselves of previous models.  How did they hang the planets in space and then have them orbit the sun?  Now ain't that high tech stuff?  And probably did it with their "mind" not anything physical :o


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 11:41:42 am
 http://www.boblazar.com/

I did try to sign in and it wouldn't except the password I gave.
Let me try this:  myspace.com/oharry1
The "ParaNoramlIAm Network"

You can go through my webpage, check my friends and he has a page of his own here.
Contains everything from crop circle photos to ET itself.
Musics not bad either.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 12:16:08 pm
If we know how they are born and we know how to create them, why don't we know how to stop them?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 03, 2007, 12:19:31 pm
 :)  Welcome aboard the “USS PRIVATE ENTERPRISE” Koas!  Unfortunately we can’t “beam you up” just yet, but shooting some holes in this thread shouldn’t be too hard, LOL.  So you’re an artist, huh?  I’m a musician.  Hopefully this thread will be a multi media event!

Hi Qoais.  I thought you forgot about us.  Element 115, huh?  That’s very HEAVY, LOL. 

Okay well let’s get Koas and the other readers up to speed on that:

TAKEN FROM:

http://www.mufor.org/lazar.htm (http://www.mufor.org/lazar.htm)



In 1989, Robert Lazar came forward with an incredible story: He had been recruited by the US government to work at the top secret Groom Lake/Area 51 research base better known as "Dreamland" (actually at the S4 site, Papoose Lake which is a few miles to the south of Groom Lake) to reverse engineer alien spacecraft! Here are a few things he learned.

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/sporty.jpg)

Was this craft built in the Zeta 2 Reticuli solar system?
Description of Exterior: The exterior skin of the disc is metal, which is the colour of unpolished stainless steel. The "Sport Model" sits on its belly when it's not energized and not on tri-pod legs. The entry hatch is located on the upper half of the disc, with just the bottom portion of the door wrapping around the centre lip of the disc.

Description of Interior: The interior of the disc is divided into three levels. The lower level is where the three "gravity amplifiers" and their wave-guides are located. The reactor is located directly above the three gravity amplifiers on the centre level and is centered between them. This center level of the disc also houses the control consoles and seats, both of which are too small and too low to the floor to be functional for adult human beings. The walls of the centre level are all divided into archways. At one point in time, when the disc was energized, one of the archways became transparent and you could see the area outside of it just as if the archway was a window.

View a "cutaway diagram" of these two levels!

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/reactor.jpg)


The disc's reactor uses a fuel, which does not occur naturally on Earth. This fuel is a super-heavy, stable, element with an atomic number of 115 and does not appear on our periodic chart. Element 115 has a twofold purpose: First, it is the source of a gravity wave that is unknown to Earth's scientists, the "Gravity A" wave. Second, it is the source of the anti-matter radiation, which is reacted to provide power.


The Gravity A wave emanates from the nucleus of Element 115 and actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. The propulsion system of the disc amplifies and focuses this Gravity A wave to cause space/time to bend, much like space/time bends in the intense gravitational field of a black hole. The ability to direct gravity to cause space/time distortions allows the disc to cross-vast expanses of space/time without traveling in a linear mode at a high rate of speed.

Inside the reactor, the Element 115 is transmuted to Element 116 which is unstable and immediately decays releasing antimatter. The antimatter is reacted with gaseous matter which causes a total annihilation reaction, the 100 percent conversion of matter to energy. The heat from this reaction is converted to electrial energy by a solid state, near 100 percent efficient thermoelectric generator. It is this energy that is used to amplify the Gravity A wave.

This mode of travel is one of the two methods of propulsion used by the disc. In this mode, the disc's gravity amplifiers [see below]


(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/gravamps.jpg)


are in the "delta configuration" and are pulsed sequentially in a rotational pattern. This amplified Gravity A wave is so powerful that the only natural occurring source of gravity that could cause space/time to distort this much would be a black hole!

The other mode of travel is the "omicron configuration" and is used for short range travel near a source of gravity such as a planet or star. When a disc travels near another source of gravity, like Earth, the Gravity A wave, which propagates outward from the disc, is phase shifted into the Gravity B wave, which propagates outward from the Earth, and this creates lift. The gravity amplifiers of the disc can be focused independently and they are pulsed and do not stay on continuously.

Okay Kaos, this one should be easy to take down, and you won't even need photon torpedoes, LOL. 



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 02:06:41 pm
Quote
Koas!  Unfortunately we can’t “beam you up” just yet, but shooting some holes in this thread shouldn’t be too hard, LOL.  So you’re an artist, huh?  I’m a musician.  Hopefully this thread will be a multi media event!


Take aim old-buddy. Shoot!
 ;D


It will only make a good idea better.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 02:17:17 pm
MD, I can understand the super gravity feilds in Lazars statement being something that can be produced differently perhaps.

Nothing about the Anti-gravity is mentioned, which is equally interesting.
The size and weight of the disc was also not equated. Nor were the calutions of the OD and ID of the disc in relation to the drives and power source.

Thus, you really can't blow apart Lazar just yet.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 02:22:50 pm
MD, do you have any information on the robotics of of our spider-bots?

Kaos, I know it's alot of very detailed and lengthy doing, but I would love to see a full color version of several pictures in-stages about the construction of this project. Any thoughts?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: KaosMonst3r on October 03, 2007, 03:15:40 pm
Ok so maybe i need some heavy reading to catch up but i'll eventually start chewing what i bit off



but for now consider the uses of this tech and modified versions of it

http://bioinformatics.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/22/2819?hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&FIRSTINDEX=0&maxtoshow=&HITS=10&fulltext=augur&searchid=1&resourcetype=HWCIT


could come in handy for repair of nanobots and human tissue given the proper tweaking.




why not take the needed dna for a vaccine then use the same technology to make the virus more useful to mankind.


but then i even ask myself how would the ecosystem react to it's own natural way of killing things to control the speciese contained whithin it if we take this responsibilty from nature?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 04:16:02 pm
Building and controlling a team of nanobots to seek and destroy infected tissue within a simulated terminally ill patient, a University of Houston computer science student and his teammate have advanced to the 2005 Microsoft Imagine Cup world semifinals.

With two consecutive wins so far, Jonathan Dowdall, a UH graduate student, and Mike Hall, his collaborator, have advanced to round three of four in the visual gaming category with their Team ContAInment, the "AI" capitalized to represent artificial intelligence. An annual competition, the Microsoft Imagine Cup challenges participants to excel in one of nine IT-related categories and is designed to recognize students who demonstrate excellence in a diverse range of technical and artistic pursuits. According to Microsoft, entries are expected to address the competition theme to "imagine a world where technology dissolves the boundaries between us."

Out of about 2,000 participants in the world qualifying round March 15, Dowdall and Hall tied with eight others for first place, with Team ContAInment being the only U.S. team in that top group. In the national elimination round April 15, they were the top-scoring team in their division. Now, advancing to the third of four rounds, they will compete in the world semifinals May 15. The first two rounds of competition took place online, as will the third, which will narrow the playing field to six teams that will travel to Japan July 27 to compete in the world finals for a grand prize of $8,000.

As visual gaming participants, Team ContAInment had to write an algorithm to build and control a team of nanobots within the simulated human body of a terminally ill patient. The nanobots are injected into the blood stream to locate and collect infected tissue. While attempting to deliver medicine to these sites, the nanobots are attacked by white blood cells in the patient's immune system. For each round of competition, Microsoft adds another challenge, such as a virus that attacks the nanobots.

"The visual gaming challenge is actually a logistics problem that you are solving, and path planning is a big part of it," Dowdall said. "The strategy involves a collaborative multi-agent programming system of nanobots, and you must give them intelligence - the algorithm - so they know how to react in their environment."

To put it very simply, a computer program written by Team ContAInment tells the nanobots to move up, down, left or right or to follow any other variety of instructions in reaction to what they encounter in the simulated environment.

As head software developer for Associate Professor Ioannis Pavlidis' Computational Physiology Laboratory at UH, Dowdall is well prepared for this challenge. Pavlidis has gained a reputation for his work in medical imaging, bioinformatics, robotics, computational biomedicine and biometrics that have various medical applications. Being part of this research group has given Dowdall a solid background in applying computer science to medicine.

"Projects like this where students are given an opportunity to harness their imaginations often provide the type of forum where ideas are born," said John Bear, dean of the UH College of Natural Sciences and Mathematics. "It's great to see ingenuity of this caliber receiving worldwide recognition."

For a related story, see

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/24235.php


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 04:22:25 pm
Kaos, could you imagine actually turning a virus into something useful that the body could use to destroy cancer cells? Then convert these new cells or sperm cells into stem cells needed for regrowth. All controlled by nanotechnology.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: KaosMonst3r on October 03, 2007, 04:30:40 pm
Actually that's a good idea but i think we should grow the virus instead of harvesting it so as to preserve the way things naturally work with microbes and viruses.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 07:30:18 pm
For many of you out there that have pondered the question pertaining to the many forms of advanced space travel, this will shed some insight. Two representatives of mankind came close on evaluating the principles of space travel in their publishing's. First, Bob Lazar is right about element 115 as the primary element that fuels the advanced reactor in off world interstellar spacecraft. Also, in that gravity does play a part in the movement of a craft across vast distances of the universe, but he tends to go astray, when it is proposed gravity is in the form of a wave and is produced on the atomic level within the spacecraft’s reactor. According to his theories, which are covered under mankind’s explanation following this paper, he proposes that gravitational waves emanating from element 115 are amplified and focused at distant points. The greater the amplification, the greater the compression of the nearby fabric of space there is between the point of origin and the destination. His theory concludes, that faster than light space travel is accomplished by closing the distance between two points with amplified gravity waves, which closes the distance between two points. The theory falters, when you have to consider an anchor point in space needs to be established in order to compress linear distances between the initial start point and its destination. How would equilibrium be maintained at the point of origin in relation to nearby cosmic masses, if the craft generates a focused gravitational wave, in what was a balanced local area? Would not the gravitational forces produced within the spacecraft that is responsible for closing the distance between two points, also crush the craft and it’s occupants? Careful scrutiny of this theory reveals flaws. Curves and folds in the fabric of space and time do not exist in the version presented by mankind; there are no shortcuts. Considering Albert Einstein’s work, he is correct in his Unified Field Theory with an explanation of new phenomena. He proposed that there are four primary forces in the universe: a vibrational force, which controls the frequencies of matter and energy, nuclear force, gravity, and its opposite and balancing counterpart, the repulsion force. The vibrational and repulsion forces are new phenomena, and were dismissed by scientists and are still unknown to general science. Both are key elements for movement to occur in exotic spacecraft. His other proposed theory on the curvature of space and that worm holes are a path to other parts of the universe, were given to mankind only to expand the present day concepts of the universe. The point is; we may not be alone.   

   The movement of a spacecraft through the cosmos is a multi-step process. Three main steps have to occur in order to achieve travel throughout the universe. Step 1: The creation of an internal gravitational and external repulsion fields to provide gravity and protection of the exterior skin of the ship. Step 2: The ability to engage local gravitational fields emanating from moons, planets and stars. Step 3: Density switching, it is an advanced technology, which can transmute matter and energy to different vibrational levels, allowing access to parallel universes. These steps, none of which to the dismay of mankind involves propulsion. Instead, it is the elimination of an unknown balancing force to gravity, the repulsion force, which is perceived as weightless to mankind when in outer space. The repulsion force, once removed from a craft’s equilibrium as a stationary object, allows the force of gravitational particles flowing towards nearby cosmic objects to attract the spacecraft at speeds approaching the speed of light for the corresponding density level or parallel universe. Our universe exists in 3rd density, the lowest vibrational level among the infinite levels in the universe. The energy source element 115 will be addressed and also the process of how power is produced in the reactor. Plus, how molecular interlacing of the bonds in the metals of spacecraft produce superior strength, seamless access points, and a variable metallic transparency all unusual qualities not seen in general population here on Earth.  The first step is creation of an internal gravitational field that counteracts the G-forces of the cosmic object, usually a moon, planet or star that the spacecraft and its occupants encounters during movement. The artificially produced internal gravitational field, a field that only affects the local internal area of the spacecraft, takes one of two forms, the shape of a spiral galaxy (the natural shape of gravitational fields) or the variant, the shape of a bell. This is why saucers and other forms of spacecraft when allegedly seen mimic those forms. In this closed system, gravity particles are independent from particles outside the field or the spatial area in close proximity of the craft, flowing from all directions in the localized area. The interior particles are attracted to the three gravity-repulsion excitor flow generators below the main floor. This enables the craft to flip in any direction, while the occupants remain locked to the floor. Since the gravitational field is self contained, the direction of all gravity particles within the craft are moving towards the artificially produced center of mass, the neutral point of the three gravity-repulsion generators. All G-Forces due to any maneuver with a local cosmic mass are eliminated. Any occupying mass inside of the craft only encounters the force applied by the internal flow of gravity particles moving towards the gravity-repulsion flow generators. This phenomena is due to an artificially produced field of gravity particles that crowds out the natural gravity particles flowing towards the center of the local cosmic mass, allowing no force to be applied from the natural particles to any internal independent mass located within the craft. It is similar to the gravity felt on Earth, which dictates motion of all mass on or near its surface. Although the Sun’s gravity controls the movement of the Earth’s orbit, this planet’s gravitational force is dominating, overwhelming any gravitational force produced by the Sun. Even though there are two gravitational systems at work, they are independent from each other. Noting that we do not feel the gravitational effects of the Sun on Earth, but its gravitational influence can be seen in subtle tidal movements outside of those caused by our moon. The artificially produced charge, which attracts the gravity particles, is also responsible for the polarity reversal of particles, creating repulsion particles. This is achieved by the stacking of gravity particles continuously flowing towards the charged center. The gravity particles, which have settled at a point of neutrality between their charge and the attracting charge of the generators, are now being pushed by gravity particles following in the rear. Gravity particles at the point of neutrality are now pushed passed it and begins to assimilate the charge of the core. Now the gravity particles once opposite in polarity to the charge of the core, are like charges. As the charge in the particles build, the repulsion force between the particle and core overcomes the containment pressures of the incoming gravity particles stacked on top. With polarity and directional flow reversed, these particles are ejected outwards at a certain speed and field concentration. The result is a crowding of the local spatial area within and around the craft with a field of repulsion particles, deflecting outside gravitational particles from applying a force to the mass of the craft. Repulsion particles build at a predetermined distance (force field) from the spacecraft, which emulates its shape. This is accomplished by distributing a charged field at an equi-distance point from the spacecraft that reverses the gravity particle charge. The key to creating a force field is being able to slow to the conversion of the polarity and charge of the repulsion particles to gravity particles at a predetermined point. The directional flow of the particles reverses back towards the generators, the artificial center of gravity. As repulsion particles build at the field edge it is an exponential rate of change vs. distance that dictates the repulsion or force field’s strength. The field edge overloads with repulsion particles, polarization reversal of the particles occurs to the excess from a charge created by the spacecraft. The longer, the time period it takes for a repulsion particle to change to a gravity particle charge, the greater the repulsion particle builds up at an exponential rate at the edge of the energy field. When in operation, the field completely envelops the craft and the repulsion of matter and energy is in proportion to the field strength. The repulsion particles at the field edge also have another property; they present a razor thin like profile during high-speed movement through atmospheres of cosmic objects. The field edge negates the formation of all sonic booms and frictional heating of the metallic skin by slicing through the atmosphere, by allowing no contact, thus eliminating any buildup of air pressure and heat at the edges of the metallic surface of the spacecraft.
 



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 07:32:08 pm
More on this complete statement given by Lazar can be found here:
http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro19.htm


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 07:46:33 pm

Are There Still Habitable Planets in the Universe Available for Colonization?


With most of the human population clinging to the idea that we are the most advanced life form created by God, there is an illusion of a vast universe with a bounty of unexplored planets for mankind to conquer. This concept is far from the truth. The universe is populated with an infinite variety of intelligent life forms in every shape, size and species. Some forms are beyond the comprehension of mankind. Habitable planetary space is rare. Significant quantities of new planetary space is available after a localized big bang initialized by a massive black hole, has created a new galaxy or cluster there of. When mankind achieves interstellar travel during the next few centuries, his explorations will reveal that most planets are already occupied, some with multiple sentient species unaware of each other except by rumor.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 03, 2007, 07:56:24 pm
MD- here is the layout of a gravity opposing generator.
Show this to your boss at GE.....

Objects of the present invention:


To provide a gravity-opposing repulsion generator utilizing electro-magnetic forces to provide repulsion by creating an electro-magnetic field superior to all surrounding forces to provide a gravity-opposing repulsion generator wherein a pair of electro magnetic rings are disposed one within the other and encircling a central sphere that is electrically energized to opposing polarities to force the counter-rotational movement thereof to provide a gravity-opposing repulsion generator wherein the rotational speed of the rings and the voltage applied thereto increases to a point to effectively achieve gravitational neutrality to provide a gravity-opposing repulsion generator wherein the rotational speed of the rings and the voltage applied thereto are further increased to a point to provide repulsion from the Earth's gravitational field by taking advantage of the north-to-north magnetic situation created by the electro-magnetic field created by the present invention to provide a gravity-opposing repulsion generator having a central sphere comprising a combination of metal conductive material with dielectric material and having a conducting mounting rod forming a core extending vertically from opposing ends thereof.


10 present invention 36 inner ring device
12 central sphere 38 interface area
14 inner ring 40 lower half of 16
16 outer ring 42 upper half of 16
18 dielectric material 44 outer ring bolt
20 conductive material 46 bearings
22 conductive mounting rod 48 dielectric support
24 outer face of 14 50 rotation of 16
26 inner face of 16 52 rotation of 14
28 north magnet of 14 54 mechanical gear mesh
30 north magnet of 16 56 electrical contact brush
32 starter motor 58 thermal control means
34 housing 60 capillary tubing


Pictures:
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau1.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau2.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau3.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau4.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau5.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau6.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau7.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau8.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau9.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau10.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau11.jpg)(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau12.jpg)
(http://www.invention.net/pics/nau13.jpg)



If you are interested in licensing, purchasing the rights to the above invention or entering into a royalty agreement please contact the office of Michael I. Kroll as follows:

Michael I. Kroll
171 Stillwell Lane
Syosset, New York 11791
Tel. #: 800-367-7774
Tel. #: 516-367-7777
Fax #: 800-367-7704
Fax #: 516-692-2787
E-Mail patent@invention.net 




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 03, 2007, 09:26:56 pm
Actually, I've been trying to apply myself to getting this car upholstered, and I finished it yesterday.  TA DA!  I've been trying to pop in once in a while to catch up on the reading, but haven't got to it all yet.  It's getting way over my head anyway!  I can understand generalities, but the minute details boggle my brain.  I can understand that Lazar's theory, can be disputed and why, but when we get into this technical minutae I'm lost.  So I'll watch for a while 8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 05, 2007, 12:53:33 pm
 :)  There’s lots of reading here to catch up on.  But what good is theorizing on a propulsion system using an element that we don’t have access to here on earth?   8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 05, 2007, 03:34:08 pm
:)  There’s lots of reading here to catch up on.  But what good is theorizing on a propulsion system using an element that we don’t have access to here on earth?   8)

The point of it is to show, what upgrades might later surface after we leave orbit.
Then again, it's about being Earth-grown technology that makes it all so "Niffty"....
Ok, screw it, let's disregaurd element 115 and stick to what we can do..   LOL

A "fusion" reactor using helium 3, would be no less a great feat of engineering on our part.
Retreival units will have to be deployed to the Moon.
For that matter, should we post a poll after picking names for the space station?

I have 4 names that come to mind.

Space station _______.
Exodus-
Sirus-
New Eden-
Posiden-


If any of you have names that you want to put out there, I'm open to suggestions.
Again this marvel of imagination does need a name.
 
8)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 06, 2007, 03:13:19 am
*** " Im taking aim & shooting ! " My problem is envy ! I envy those Who seem to have a lot of Free Time on their hands ? Quoting Science Fiction consistently is amateurish & childish !


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 06, 2007, 03:55:34 am
herefornow, I think you're missing the most obvious name of all.  ATLANTIS ;D

When I brought up Lazar's propulsion system, it was to show how simple it could be and if scientists could develop something with as few moving parts, substituting element 115 with something else, it's food for thought.

Hee Hee Hee - that contraption reminds me of the magneto on the Model-T :D  We'll have to put two magnetos face to face, run a rod down the centre between the two, hit the starter switch, and we'll fly ;D

Actually 3D, that science fiction came from SOMEWHERE.  I believe the writers and producers read the Sumerian texts as well as the Urantia Book.  I think I read somewhere that Gene Roddenberry did study the Vedas as well.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 06, 2007, 04:23:51 am
*** I Love Originality ! New Ideas ! Not the Repetetive Stuff Ive been hearing for the last 5 decades? "Hyperdrive". . . "Wormholes" ? These are concepts that not only if 1000s of years in the Future but are pretty much and practically Impossible ? THE ONLY WAY TO CIRCUMVENT ALL TECHNNOLOGY & THE TEACHINGS TO THE ST*RS IS THE PHILOSOPHY OF ALL GREAT THINKERS IS THE ACT OF ASTRAL PROJECTION. when ONE leaves the physical body & no longer depends or requires assistance on this physical realm to teleport to other Dimensions and Planes Places.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 06, 2007, 06:01:29 am
*** Of Course they read all those ancient writings ! They never acknowledged it ! or it was never common knowledge ! But these guys:  Verne . . . Asimov. . . Roddenbury . . . etc. were very well versed in all the ancient scriptures ! That is why they stood out and were recognized before their time and before Internet.       ****D3D   c.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 06, 2007, 01:03:34 pm
*** " Im taking aim & shooting ! " My problem is envy ! I envy those Who seem to have a lot of Free Time on their hands ? Quoting Science Fiction consistently is amateurish & childish !

Ok, I can relate to that. Now, what I am trying to understand is how converting science fiction into science fact is unorigional?

Their are people out there right now, actually attempting to produce the technologies we have seen in the movies.
Whats wrong with us trying to figure out ways to bring these ideas into a working plan for getting into space?
I am honest enough to admit that I'm personally unable to make this plan actually happen.
However their is those who may read this someday and see something that will contribute to interplanetary travel.

No offence, but I think your blowing it out of proportion.
The entire forum is filled with everyday people who offer ideas and opinions about lots of things.
I guess if this makes me childish and amature, then I am OK with that.
I am both of those things, and I don't mind that so it doesn't matter...     ;D

LOL It's cool though. Regaurdless of how this all might make some people feel, I like it.
Someday it might be something that could influence ideas of better things to come.
Why let it bother you, that I have time to waste posting these things?
I'm sure your posts are so much more origional and intellectual.
 8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 06, 2007, 01:14:29 pm
Atlantis, actually was something I considered but for the sake of not using any NASA names. I went with Posiden. I would have loved to imagine Space Station Atlantis in an announced launching to outer space.
I'll still place the Atlantis name on the poll though.

I want this to be collectively acceptable by all in whom have contributed to this thread.
Private Enterprise- To Mars is about the ideas of new technologies and methods.
It deserves a name that fits the theories involved.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on October 06, 2007, 08:42:33 pm
wovoostyn technology and H-ray propulsion.   ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 12:29:08 am
H-Ray? Is that like the plasma laser propultion systems?  ???


Franklin Mead, project manager, for the Air Force Research Laboratory’s Propulsion Directorate at Edwards Air Force Base, California.

"There’s a lot of historical aspects to this work. We’ve done things that nobody else has ever done," Mead told SPACE.com.

Over 140 flights of the saucer-sized disks have been completed to date. The highest altitude reached by a Lightcraft has been 128 feet (39 meters), a record set nearly a year ago last July.

Lightcraft flights last only seconds. As the vehicle rides on the light beam, it smacks into a black-painted plywood board that is positioned over the test site.

Mead said a goal of the next tests is setting a new record.

"We’re trying to attempt something on the order of 1,000 feet (305 meters)," Mead said. Gone will be the backstop, with the Lightcraft, hopefully, speeding past its current altitude record, he said.

The new series of open-air tests is being coordinated with the Air Force Space Command, which keeps track of Earth-orbiting spacecraft. Bursts of laser light will be timed so as not to blind sensors on satellites that are passing over New Mexico, Mead said.

On the beam

Mead said another possible goal for the upcoming flights is routing the laser beam on the ground from one set of optical gear to another while the Lightcraft is in flight.

By handing off the light beam to successively larger optics, the laser energy hitting the Lightcraft can be sharply focused while the vehicle climbs higher and higher. In essence, these "beam directors" act like stages of a rocket, needed to hurl a payload toward space.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/laser_propulsion_000705.html



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 12:40:21 am
Check this out!

UPDATE: It has been proposed that extremely small payloads (10 kg) could be delivered to Mars in only 10 days of travel time using laser-based lightsail caft (Meyer, 1984), but in order to do so, would require a 47 GW laser system. With 47,000 reflections then only a 1MW laser system would be needed. (fifty 20KW lasers). Scaling up 100 times would be able to deliver 1 ton payloads to Mars in ten days.
"Multi-Bounce Laser-Based Sails", written by Robert A. Metzger and Geoffrey Landis


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 12:44:08 am
United States Patent 20070056262 Kind Code:A1 Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070056262.html
Abstract: A hybrid electric-laser propulsion (HELP) thruster. A propellant has self-regenerative surface morphology. A laser ablates the propellant to create an ionized exhaust plasma that is non-interfering with a trajectory path of expelled ions. An electromagnetic field generator generates an electromagnetic field that defines a thrust vector for the exhaust plasma. Multiple HELP thrusters may be ganged together, and controlled, according to mission criteria.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 02:39:17 pm
I need Via Mars2 & Dr.Lee

 ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 05:03:52 pm
One more favorite:

United States Patent 5333444 Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5333444.html

Abstract:An electromagnetic thruster for marine vehicles using a jet of water driven by the interaction of a mutually perpendicular intensified magnetic field and an intensified electric field is disclosed. The intensified magnetic field is produced by superconducting coils cooled by a coolant such as liquid helium. An intensified electric field is produced by passing high amperage current across the seawater jet. These interacting fields produce a Lorentz force perpendicular to mutually perpendicular electric and magnetic field vectors which is used to drive the seawater jet. In some embodiments, the force may also be used to draw water into the jet from the boundary layer flow around the vehicle thereby reducing boundary layer turbulence and associated radiated noise.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 07, 2007, 05:10:32 pm
An origional idea I think D3D may like is........

Using the interaction of spirit energy from within to interact with a highly sensitive material that morphs from the emotional will, or thought as a result in the way spirit energy is emmited.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 09, 2007, 05:02:35 pm
 :)  Hey, did you get to read what Childress said about Marconi?

If it's at all true, then Marconi did it without element 115, LOL.

Here's an excerpt of it:

SECRET CITY IN SOUTH AMERICA

A number of European scientists were said to have gone with Marconi, including Landini. In 1937, the enigmatic Italian physicist and alchemist Fulcanelli warned European physicists of the grave dangers of atomic weapons and then mysteriously vanished a few years later. He is believed to have joined Marconi's secret group in South America.

Ninety-eight scientists were said to have gone to South America where they built a city in an extinct volcanic crater in the southern jungles of Venezuela. In their secret city, financed by the great wealth they had created during their lives, they continued Marconi's work on solar energy, cosmic energy, and anti-gravity. Working secretly and apart from the world's nations, they built free-energy motors and ultimately discoid aircraft with a form of gyroscopic anti-gravity. The community is said to be dedicated to universal peace and the common good of all mankind. Believing the rest of the world to be under the control of energy companies, multinational bankers and the military-industrial complex, the story goes, they have remained isolated from the rest of the world, working subversively to foster peace and a clean, ecological technology on the world.

The part about the multinational bankers, kills me, LOL.   8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 09, 2007, 09:27:46 pm

It makes me woder if our goverment is controlling the city now....
If it's true I mean. If they read this story, then I'm sure they've investigated it.
Leaves the imagination to wonder about though. LOL

Let's see if we can get an E-mail adress from S. America from someone there that might know something about this. Then we'll share your thread as well as mine to with them..
Why not try it?   ;D

Neither of us have anything to loose by this you know.  ::)
And, we don't have to spend a ton of money in getting there to boot.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 09, 2007, 09:38:30 pm
Quote
Believing the rest of the world to be under the control of energy companies, multinational bankers and the military-industrial complex, the story goes, they have remained isolated from the rest of the world, working subversively to foster peace and a clean, ecological technology on the world.

This sounds all to familiar, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 10, 2007, 06:36:26 am
*** Sungate *** Do you have a fix on this location in Southern Venezuela? Seems like it may be Cerro Marahuaca at 8448.8 ft. in the Amazonas Region? Did you find this information in "Anti-Gravity & The World Grid"? & If so . . . what page please?   Thanx.       DD****D   c.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 10, 2007, 09:08:23 am
 :)  I'll print more of what the article by David Hatcher Childress says about this secret city.  It's taken from an article entitled:

"Tesla & Marconi"
by David Hatcher Childress
Atlantis Rising Issue 13
from AtlantisRising Website

Here's some more of it:

We have information on this astonishing high-tech city from a number of sources. In South America the story is a common subject among certain metaphysical groups. Says the French writer Robert Charroux in his book The Mysteries of the Andes (1974, 1977, Avon Books), the Ciudad Subterranea de los Andes, is discussed in private from Caracas to Santiago. Charroux goes on to tell the story of Marconi and his secret city, plus the story of a Mexican journalist named Mario Rojas Avendaro, who investigated the Ciudad Subterranea de los Andes (Underground City of the Andes) and concluded that it was a true story. Avendaro was contacted by a man named Nacisso Genovese, who had been a student of Marconi's and was a physics teacher at a high school in Baja, Mexico.

Genovese was an Italian by origin and claimed to have lived for many years in the Ciudad Subterranea de los Andes. Sometime in the late 1950s he wrote an obscure book entitled My Trip to Mars. Though the book was never published in English, it did appear in various Spanish, Portuguese and Italian editions.

Genovese claimed that the city had been built with large financial resources, was underground, and had better research facilities than any other research facility in the world (at that time, at least). By 1946 the city already used a powerful collector of cosmic energy, the essential component of all matter, according to Marconi's theories, many of which he had derived from Tesla.

In 1952, according to Genovese, we traveled above all the seas and continents in a craft whose energy supply was continuous and practically inexhaustible. It reached a speed of half a million miles an hour and withstood enormous pressures, near the limit of resistance of the alloys that composed it. The problem was to slow it down at just the right time.

According to Genovese, the city is located at the bottom of a crater, is mostly underground, and is entirely self-sufficient. The extinct volcano is covered in thick vegetation, is hundreds of miles from any roads, and is at thirteen thousand feet in the jungle mountains of the Amazon.

The French author Charroux expressed surprise and disbelief at the statement that the city was on a jungle-covered mountain that was 13,000 feet high. Yet the eastern side of the Andean cordillera has many such mountains, from Venezuela to Bolivia, spanning thousands of miles. Several such cities and mountains could exist in this vast, unexplored, and perpetually cloud-covered region.

Yet a secret city in a jungle crater was the least of the claims. Genovese insisted that flights to the Moon and Mars were made in their flying saucers. He claimed that once the technology had been conquered, it was relatively simple to make the trip to the Moon (a few hours) or Mars (several days). Genovese does not mention pyramids or what they did on Mars. Perhaps they created a Martian base in one of the ancient, sand-blown pyramids of the Cydonia region.

There have been many reports of UFOs in South America, especially along the edge of the mountainous jungles of the eastern Andes, from Bolivia to Venezuela. Is it possible that some of these UFOs are anti-gravity craft from the Ciudad Subterranea de los Andes?




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 10, 2007, 10:53:48 am
 :)  HereForNow, you've got to check out what Bianca is posting in this thread:

VIMANAS USED QUICKSILVER.  Here's a link:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1980.0.html (http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1980.0.html)

Mercury Vortex engines were apparently a electrical plasma propulsion system.  And apparently the design for the engine has been staring us in the face every time we go to a hospital or drug store.  (The symbol for the hypocratic oath, the two intertwineing snakes on the rod symbol)

Check it out.  Maybe we don't have to wait for the technology to be developed.  Maybe it's already been done, and we just have to reinvent it, LOL.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: DDDnD3D on October 10, 2007, 02:40:44 pm
***The Secret City is an IMPORTANT TOPIC and should be moved to the most appropriate section. Secondly there is alot of discrepancy and vagueness as to the exact location and IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE NAIL THIS ONE! rather than tolerate more misleading and deceptive claims creating more confusion? THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE TO START SEPARATING THE SCIENCE FICTION FROM REALITY? According to my ATLAS, an elevation of 13,000 ft. does not exist in the alleged area of THE SECRET CITY in Southern Venezuela that just begins to border the Amazon Jungle! The Highest Elevation in this area is in the extreme Southeast corner exactly at the intersection of the Guyana/Brazil borders and this is Mt. Roraima at 9081 ft.? The Highest Peak is in the North 40 miles from the coast called Pico Bolivar at 16,386 ft. and is the major peak of the Cord De Merida of the most North Andes. Going south to San Cristobal and into Columbia the Andes approach 13,000 ft. But this is hardly south Venezuela Amazon territory & No Roads???      *DDn***


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 10, 2007, 04:04:18 pm
 :) I have to smile when I see several threads all kinda supporting and backing up other threads.
Maybe we should all ask the MODS to combined all the threads that speak on using science-fiction and ancient super-technology, (which are alike) and put them together.  ;)

Then we don't have to **** off DDD anymore.  LOL
Secondly, what is it exactly about this secret city that has you so interested D3D?
HMMMM

Do you work for uncle-Sam?
If so, I'm not going to continue posting in front of you.  :P
(Kidding)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 11, 2007, 03:35:17 pm
 :)  All kidding aside, I think D3D is right about it being an important topic.  But I’m not sure how much we can find out about a “secret” especially a “secret city” in an area which is largely unexplored. 

David Hatcher Childress is great at putting down legends and myths that circulate in given remote areas of the world.  But his sources are hard to list, (as they were probably told to him through a translator, or what he could gather from what a local peasant is telling him.)

So while this is definitely not science fiction, it falls into the realm of the unsubstantiated.
I’m sure there’s more on this intriguing tale that we could find out, however.

I’m not sure just where this kind of post belongs.  But if HereForNow doesn’t object, lets just keep posting it here.  Or we could post it in the Tesla thread, because part of the tale is that Tesla faked his death after being asked to join the other scientists in the “secret city”.  Marconi was after all his student, and a personal friend despite their dispute over who invented the radio.   ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 12, 2007, 01:31:01 am
3D has already answered the question as to how to find this city.  By astral travelling.  You can go anywhere you want to that way, which leaves me somewhat surprised that WHATEVER is hidden in the realms of the earth, aren't found already.

3D - I've asked you quite a few times, and you've never answered.  What kind of work do you do?  I know you're on a ship, or were, so does that mean you DO work for the Navy or something?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on October 12, 2007, 03:48:37 pm
 :)  Hi, Qoais,

Remote viewing, huh?  I read a book on it by Dr. Courtney Brown called Cosmic Voyage
He founded The Farsight Institute, a non-profit organization whose purpose is to conduct scientific research of the remote-viewing phenomenon, and to train remote viewers.

I’m not sure how reliable remote viewing data is.  But I’ve had my own astral projection experience, so I can say from personal experience that there’s definitely truth to what has been generally considered a pseudoscience by mainstream scientists.

From what I know of it however the viewer needs to be given the exact coordinates, no?  And we only know a VERY aproximate location, which is SOMEWHERE in the Andes.  So will that work?
 8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 12, 2007, 06:01:10 pm
I'm not sure that remote viewing and astral travelling are the same thing.  I think in remote viewing, a lot of psychic power is involved, especially in "sensing" what happened in a certain place at a certain time, while in astral travelling the soul is actually disengaged from the body and travelling on it's own connected by a "silver cord".  Astral travelling is as fast as the speed of thought.  You "think" to be somewhere and you're there.  You can cover a lot of ground in one go that's for sure.  The higher trained you are, the better you are at it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 12, 2007, 08:48:43 pm
Shirley MacLaine stars as herself in this TV movie, a recreation of a love affair and spiritual adventure that took the actress to exotic locales. Shirley, feeling something lacking in her life, finds herself drawn toward the idea that there is more to living and the world around her than what we generally acknowledge. She delves into the study of metaphysics and religion via books, various kindred spirits and firsthand observations. She travels to Peru, where a man named David Manning shares with her information that leads to her having an out-of-body experience. She ends believing in reincarnation, the possible existence of extraterrestrials, and the immorality of the human soul.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_on_a_Limb"


Great mini-series. Imagine doing that in a hot-tub, or covering your body in nothing more then a pacho or blanet.
I loved the movie though. Very cool story.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on October 13, 2007, 10:39:08 am
I remember when the book first came out, she was almost laughed out of Hollywood.  Everyone thought she'd gone over the deep end.  But basically, she single handedly heightened people's awareness of their spiritual side.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 13, 2007, 01:05:50 pm
She definitely did that for me. That movie aired on ABC for the first time and only made all the more interested in paranormal research/investigation. Then I stumbled on to how every time the truth slips out about anything, it is never seen or heard again. This only made me all the more interested.

Finally I actually got go ghost hunting. I went on a few investigations with others who have interests.
This was a little too intense though. It took one really bad experience for me to understand that some things are better left unknown. Astral projections, is a really good subject and I love discussing it. However, after learning the hard way that the super-natural can hurt you. I prefer to stay embodied, with all my physical senses remaining my own.

Listening to a womens voice change to a mans voice and suddenly being attacked is usually where most people draw the line.  :) I heard the recording and saw the video of this experience and it was enough to
keep me on the research side of the fence.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 14, 2007, 11:39:20 am
We propose a self-assembly and self-repair method for a homogeneous distributed mechanical system. We focus on a category of distributed systems composed of numbers of identical units which can dynamically change connections among themselves. Each unit has an onboard microprocessor, and local communication between neighboring units is possible. We discuss a distributed method for a group of such units to metamorphose from an arbitrary configuration into a desired configuration through cooperation by the units. This process, called self-assembly, is realized by identical software on each unit with local inter-unit communication. An extension of self-assembly, self-repair, is also examined. In this process, an occasional cut-off of an arbitrary part of the system is assumed. When some part of the system detects damage, the whole system degenerates and reconstructs itself. Computer simulations show the feasibility of self-assembly and self-repair. Now this idea as discussed in the prior posts uses nanotechnology to produce this effect, while collecting energy and other materials needed from the enviroment in space.

This is a very important machanism for interplanetary travel.......

Nothing about this is science-fiction because the technology is being developed and even considered in architecture. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 21, 2007, 09:04:11 am
There are three thrusts to trying to build living machines. First is to build robots with partial characteristics of living machines, looking for the key intellectual ideas that make them possible. The second is to use generalized evolutionary systems to investigate possible mechanisms and designs. Generalized evolutionary systems use analogs of physical processes to organize the world for evolving systems, living in that world. The third thrust is to develop a new mathematics of living systems. This new mathematics interacts with the first two thrusts in two ways. It is inspired by the first two thrusts to formalize the notions developed there. Additionally it is used to provide constraints on the design spaces in the first two thrusts, to guide the research work to the appropriate areas.
The future of robotics lies beyond mimicking humans and in machines that transform themselves into configurations based on changing circumstances. Some of these machines may resemble creatures from the natural world, but others may be original, concocted to repair a sudden failing or find a way around an unexpected obstruction. You can be sure that the robots that eventually colonize the galaxies or explore the uncharted depths of Earth’s oceans won’t look like a jogging butler. In fact, they won’t look like any single thing at all because their primary talent will be shape-shifting.

Self-assembly and self-repair are defining attributes of complex life. Think of the army of cellular agents, including white blood cells and platelets, that jump into action over a mere paper cut—rebuilding the tissue, warding off infection, and alerting the rest of the body to the wound through the A-delta fibers of the nervous system, which are involved in the transmission of acute pain sensations. DNA has an elaborate system for minimizing errors when it makes copies of itself. Otherwise, multicellular life would be filled with an intolerably high number of defects. And thanks to the encodings of DNA, cells are capable of complex forms of self-assembly, depending on the task that the body requires in each stage of development. The same genetic strand can be used to build a neuron or a white blood cell or a sliver of muscle tissue.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 04, 2007, 10:26:41 am
Cosmic rays and solar radiation is extremely dangerous. Finding ways to sheild astronauts is alot of solving the challenges we face in a trip to Mars. One of the things I'm seeing as a huge advantage down the road is adapting the body to the enviroment of space.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 11, 2007, 04:56:49 pm
SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- Australian scientists have found that stem cells taken from adults could have the same life-saving potential as those taken from embryos, a discovery that could potentially end the contentious debate over embryonic research.

The results from the four-year project, at Australia's Griffith University in Queensland, show that adult stem cells harvested from the nose can be grown into virtually any kind of cell in the human body.

Until now it has been thought that adult stem cells could only develop into different cell types of their own tissue, unlike embryonic stem cells which can turn into any body cell type.

Griffith University researcher Professor Alan Mackay-Sim said the study showed that olfactory stem cells could develop into heart cells, liver cells, kidney cells, muscle cells, brain cells and nerve cells. In addition the olfactory stem cells did not have the problems of rejection or forming tumors as is common with embryonic stem cells.

"Our experiments have shown adult stem cells isolated from the olfactory mucosa have the ability to develop into many different cell types if they are given the right chemical or cellular environment, Professor Mackay-Sim said, in research published on the Internet.

"These adult olfactory stem cells appear to have the same ability as embryonic stem cells in giving rise to many different cell types but have the advantage that they can be obtained from all individuals, even older people who might be most in need of stem cell therapies. Stem cells obtained and transplanted into the same person would not be rejected by the immune system," he said.

These technologies can also help rebuild bone loss and tissue damage caused by cosmic rays.
Proper sheilding from these rays should be considered, however with a lack of hospitals in space. Medical break-throughs in cell regrowth and repair is something that humans need to have for traveling long durations in space.

One more reason that a planetary space station is going to have to be more massive then present space ship designs. This increases the length and safety of Mars missions and prolonged space missions to an indefinite amount of time.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 17, 2008, 02:52:30 pm
Now it's just a hunch.....

How does "0" gravity effect cellular developement? Outside the body.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on March 08, 2008, 03:31:47 pm
Quote
Now it's just a hunch.....

How does "0" gravity effect cellular developement? Outside the body.

Just a hunch too, but how could it not?   ;)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on April 02, 2008, 07:06:53 pm
The timing, molecular basis, and morphophysiological and behavioral consequences of the interaction between external environment and the internal genetic pool that shapes the nervous system over a lifetime remain important questions in basic neuroscientific research. Space station offers the opportunity to study this interaction over several life cycles in a variety of organisms. This short review considers past work in altered gravity, particularly on the vestibular system, as the basis for proposing future research on space station, and discusses the equipment necessary to achieve goals. It is stressed that, in keeping with the international investment being made in this research endeavor, both the questions asked and the technologies to be developed should be bold. Advantage must be taken of this unique research environment to expand the frontiers of neuroscience.

 ;)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYS-3V3X5JP-7&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=0b96063b9ce38477bb7a0ba8fe4cec61


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on April 29, 2008, 06:23:02 am
One of the things that I'm seeing our governments being able to do for the trips to mars is to combined present Mars agendas with resouces that are already in orbit. Reffering to ISS........

With a new space race well under way between Russia and the United States to Mars. I see a very real possibility that with China involved, going to Mars sooner can be accomplished.

Here's a look at what we have to work with now.

ISS Photo taken Oct. 2007
(http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/203313main_s120e009808_large.jpg)
 
Now adding Chinese, American and russian proposals to send humans to Mars reqires a large craft.
I beleive that by taking the recent proposals to send humans to Mars and combinding them to the ISS And launching this interplanetary space station would be the most logical and cost effective plan to date for the manned Mars mission. It would then be a matter of simply launching Components insteads of huge payloads to the ISS, making it more spherical to improve mobility and rotation of station to create the artificial gravity needed for the jorney.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 11, 2008, 12:21:07 pm
The only question is just when commercial enterprises will begin to pose a serious challenge to government-funded space exploration. The answer: soon. That, at least, is the message of "Rocketeers," Michael Belfiore's enlightening survey of the entrepreneurs bent on conquering space.





In the old days of science fiction, the recipe for conquering space was simple: take some genius rocket scientists, maybe add a rich guy who shared the dream and provided funds, stir in a lot of backyard-style tinkering, and soon you'd have a spacecraft that did the job. From E.E. Smith's "The Skylark of Space" (1928) to Robert Heinlein's "Rocket Ship Galileo" (1947), the assumption was that spaceflight would take off pretty much the way aviation had taken off, thanks to the skilled hands of dedicated amateurs who would blaze a trail soon to be followed by big business and big government.
It didn't work out that way, of course. The earliest days of rocketry, when Robert Goddard and Wernher von Braun built rockets in garages in the 1920s and 1930s, did look like the early days of aviation. But by 1957, when the first Sputnik satellite was launched, it was clear that space exploration was going to be mostly a job for federal agencies and tax dollars.

The big-government approach did get us to the moon--the process might have been expensive and complicated, but it had also been fast, and it had worked. Unfortunately, the big-government approach stopped working. The Apollo program was ended early, the promised follow-up missions didn't appear, and talk of going to Mars quickly died down. We spent most of a decade waiting for the Space Shuttle, and when it arrived it was a disappointment: an orbital trucking service, and not a cheap or reliable one either. The International Space Station was likewise slow, overpriced and in some ways even creakier than the Mir and Skylab stations that had preceded it.

As NASA has lost its glow in recent years, space enthusiasts have begun to wonder whether early science-fiction writers might have been right after all. And indeed, private-sector space initiatives are heating up again. So far, as Michael Belfiore shows in "Rocketeers," the results look promising.

Mr. Belfiore opens with a discussion of Peter Diamandis, the communications entrepreneur who, in 1996, announced an open competition for what he called the X Prize. (It was renamed the Ansari X Prize after two venture capitalists, Amir and Anousheh Ansari, put up $10 million for the award.) The challenge to competitors: Develop a spacecraft able to carry three people to an altitude of roughly 62 miles--generally regarded as the point where airspace ends and outer space begins--and safely return them to Earth, then repeat the trip within two weeks.

The X Prize contest was reminiscent of aviation's early days, when privately funded prizes inspired design competitions and trial-and-error efforts with comparatively little governmental help. Charles Lindbergh didn't fly the Atlantic with the assistance of a federal grant; he was chasing the Orteig Prize. And Lindbergh was one of many aviators competing for the $25,000 award--it touched off a frenzy of creative thinking and problem-solving.

The Ansari X Prize was won in 2004 by aerospace engineer Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne. The excitement over the contest prompted others to look afresh at the possibilities of space transportation. Mr. Belfiore offers an inside look at many of these "NewSpace" entrepreneurs, including John Carmack, the creator of the Doom video game. In 2001, he launched the Armadillo Aerospace project, currently competing for the million-dollar NASA Lunar Lander Prize. Elon Musk, the founder of PayPal, has started SpaceX, a startup that has launched everything from Naval research payloads to the ashes of "Star Trek" actor James Doohan.

Not every NewSpace venture has its roots in technology and engineering. Budget Suites owner Robert Bigelow has gotten into the game with Bigelow Aerospace. His goal: orbital hotels. The company has already launched two spacecraft. And outdoor advertising mogul George French is behind Rocketplane, which bills itself as "a commercial space transportation company focused on providing safe, reliable and low-cost access to space."

If private-sector space exploration efforts bring to mind aviation's early days, they also evoke the personal-computer world circa 1975: a lot of creative energy and a critical mass of engineers, early-adopter customers, bold financiers, and start-up suppliers and subcontractors. Like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in the pioneering days of the PC, the rocketry folks display a sense of mission as they pursue transformative breakthroughs rather than short-term gains.





On Memorial Day weekend, in Dallas, I attended the National Space Society's International Space Development Conference for the first time in more than a decade, and the change was striking. In the early 1990s, the gathering had the atmosphere of a Star Trek convention; now it's something different, with Brioni-suited venture capitalists and prosperous, big-firm lawyers filling auditorium seats and schmoozing with tech-geeks between panel discussions. Shortly afterward, it was announced that Northrop Grumman was buying Burt Rutan's company outright. The amount paid was undisclosed, but Old Space clearly wants a piece of NewSpace and is willing to pay serious money to get it.
The combination of lavish investment, entrepreneurial zeal and technological inventiveness may well give a big lift to nongovernmental efforts at space exploration. Mr. Belfiore does a terrific job of capturing the dream-chasing that is already under way. If we ever see cities on the moon or Mars--the kind of thing science fiction once promised so enticingly--I'm betting that the lion's share of credit will go not to NASA but to 21st-century rocketeers.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110010399


 ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 11, 2008, 12:23:01 pm
For a fraction of Bill Gates net worth- We could launch manned crews to tour the entire solar system.
Do the Math............


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 11, 2008, 12:36:29 pm
Earlier on in this thread, I gave a fairly detailed explanation of "my" idea of using self-assembly.

The design of a machine which is composed of homogeneous mechanical units is described. We show the design of both hardware and control software of the unit. Each unit can connect with other units and change the connection by itself. In spite of its simple mechanism, a set of these units realizes various mechanical functions. We developed the control software of the unit which realizes “self-assembly,” one of the basic functions of this machine. A set of these units can form a given shape of the whole system by themselves. The units exchange information about local geometric relation by communication, and cooperate to form the whole shape through a diffusion-like process. There is no upper level controller to supervise these units, and the software of each unit is completely the same. Three actual units have been built to test the basic movements, and the function of self-assembly has been verified by computer simulation.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 11, 2008, 12:38:47 pm




(http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/yyy/araignnnne.jpg)  (http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/yyy/exp4legsRot[1].jpg)


The modules can rearrange themselves into countless different shapes and create different patterns of movement. M-TRAN can configure itself to march on four legs, shape-shift into a long string of modules that slithers across the floor like a snake, or it can pull itself into a wheel and roll or creep along the ground with its legs splayed out like a spider’s. The robot can even evolve a new walking strategy if it looses one module.

The possibilities are so immense that many of M-TRAN’s patterns of motion aren’t designed directly by human programmers. Genetic algorithms allow the robot to discover new ways of moving on its own. The M-TRAN computer cycles through possible patterns of motion, selecting the most promising ones, sampling their effectiveness, making further selections till the software evolves a new pattern that the robot can adopt.

Future uses for M-TRAN's descendants include space rovers or deep-sea probes, as well as explorers in unknown or complicated environments, looking for people under debris or fixing leaky valves in polluted areas, such as nuclear plants.

http://unit.aist.go.jp/is/dsysd/mtran3/FlashMovie/mtran3/movie.htm


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on May 14, 2008, 05:34:35 pm
Hi HFN
It's almost scary watching those things do their thing  :D  They're "thinking" what to do next.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 14, 2008, 09:36:44 pm
Exactly! Now given everything that we have discussed up to this point, you can see what this means.

Just imagine how many of these things you could launch per shuttle, via electro-magnetic rail gun system.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 15, 2008, 11:18:06 pm
Inspired by biological systems, scientists have developed miniature robots that can self-assemble using parts that float randomly in their environments. The robots also know when something is amiss and can correct their own mistakes.

Scientists have long been fascinated by how living cells are able to replicate DNA using building blocks floating randomly inside the cell’s nucleus. The interior of the nucleus is filled with a gel-like liquid known as nucleoplasm. The DNA building blocks, known as nucleotides, float around in this liquid like ingredients in a molecular soup. Also present in the nucleoplasm are proteins known as polymerases, which pluck nucleotides from the soup as needed when copying DNA.

The beauty of this approach is that the parts do not have to be presented in a specific order the way they are in a car assembly line. All the cell has to do is make sure there is a continuous supply of nucleotides and the polymerases do the rest. Furthermore, the more nucleotides present, the more likely they will come into contact with the polymerases and the faster the DNA strand can be assembled.
(http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050928/050928_dna_bots_hmed.hmedium.jpg)

To artificially recreate this process, a research team from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), headed by Joseph Jacobson, created robots capable of latching onto one another in specific sequences.

The robots come in two colors, yellow (Y) and green (G), and float around on a cushion of air like pucks on an air hockey table. Each robot is programmed to latch onto a green robot on one side and a yellow robot on the other to form 5-robot strings such as YGGYY or GYYGG.

The robots also have a built-in mechanism to correct any errors they might make. Each robot is able to check the color of its neighboring block and will unlatch itself if the sequence is not correct.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 15, 2008, 11:32:19 pm

The Potential and Power of Quantum Computing

In a traditional computer, information is encoded in a series of bits, and these bits are manipulated via Boolean logic gates arranged in succession to produce an end result.  Similarly, a quantum computer manipulates qubits by executing a series of quantum gates, each a unitary transformation acting on a single qubit or pair of qubits.  In applying these gates in succession, a quantum computer can perform a complicated unitary transformation to a set of qubits in some initial state.  The qubits can then be measured, with this measurement serving as the final computational result.  This similarity in calculation between a classical and quantum computer affords that in theory, a classical computer can accurately simulate a quantum computer.  In other words, a classical computer would be able to do anything a quantum computer can.  So why bother with quantum computers?  Although a classical computer can theoretically simulate a quantum computer, it is incredibly inefficient, so much so that a classical computer is effectively incapable of performing many tasks that a quantum computer could perform with ease.  The simulation of a quantum computer on a classical one is a computationally hard problem because the correlations among quantum bits are qualitatively different from correlations among classical bits, as first explained by John Bell.  Take for example a system of only a few hundred qubits, this exists in a Hilbert space of dimension ~1090 that in simulation would require a classical computer to work with exponentially large matrices (to perform calculations on each individual state, which is also represented as a matrix), meaning it would take an exponentially longer time than even a primitive quantum computer. 
    Richard Feynman was among the first to recognize the potential in quantum superposition for solving such problems much much faster.  For example, a system of 500 qubits, which is impossible to simulate classically, represents a quantum superposition of as many as 2500 states.  Each state would be classically equivalent to a single list of 500 1's and 0's.  Any quantum operation on that system --a particular pulse of radio waves, for instance, whose action might be to execute a controlled-NOT operation on the 100th and 101st qubits-- would simultaneously operate on all 2500 states.  Hence with one fell swoop, one tick of the computer clock, a quantum operation could compute not just on one machine state, as serial computers do, but on 2500 machine states at once!  Eventually, however, observing the system would cause it to collapse into a single quantum state corresponding to a single answer, a single list of 500 1's and 0's, as dictated by the measurement axiom of quantum mechanics.  The reason this is an exciting result is because this answer, derived from the massive quantum parallelism achieved through superposition, is the equivalent of performing the same operation on a classical super computer with ~10150 separate processors (which is of course impossible)!!   
    Early investigators in this field were naturally excited by the potential of such immense computing power, and soon after realizing its potential, the hunt was on to find something interesting for a quantum computer to do.  Peter Shor, a research and computer scientist at AT&T's Bell Laboratories in New Jersey, provided such an application by devising the first quantum computer algorithm.  Shor's algorithm harnesses the power of quantum superposition to rapidly factor very large numbers (on the order ~10200 digits and greater) in a matter of seconds.  The premier application of a quantum computer capable of implementing this algorithm lies in the field of encryption, where one common (and best) encryption code, known as RSA, relies heavily on the difficulty of factoring very large composite numbers into their primes.  A computer which can do this easily is naturally of great interest to numerous government agencies that use RSA -- previously considered to be "uncrackable" -- and anyone interested in electronic and financial privacy. 
    Encryption, however, is only one application of a quantum computer.  In addition, Shor has put together a toolbox of mathematical operations that can only be performed on a quantum computer, many of which he used in his factorization algorithm.  Furthermore, Feynman asserted that a quantum computer could function as a kind of simulator for quantum physics, potentially opening the doors to many discoveries in the field.  Currently the power and capability of a quantum computer is primarily theoretical speculation; the advent of the first fully functional quantum computer will undoubtedly bring many new and exciting applications.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 16, 2008, 11:15:48 pm
Now having the power of a quantum computer aboard a satellite, controlling the assembly process of thousands of these fully animated components, assembling both inner and outer portions of the station is where it all begins. The hard part if NASA would have done it.  ;)
Here on Earth, we could have Green-Living like never before.
(http://star-space.com/archives/2007/6/17/pliving/aChoSeoulCommune.jpg)

In space we would not have to launch a singal astronaut to begin with.
(http://www.esa.int/images/sailhexagon_v2_L.jpg)

Satellite swarm self-assembling a large array in orbit
One focus of the workshop will be the coordinated motion of satellite swarms. Primitive goal-oriented instincts will be coded into the control system of each satellite, guiding it to complete a small task, whilst remaining unaware that a more complex undertaking is being achieved collectively. This is how ants and termites behave in nature. In this way, a satellite swarm may be given a collective intelligence, allowing it to achieve useful tasks in space.

Large structures could be built, or many satellites could fly in formation to simulate the performance of much larger apertures than can be launched, whole, into space.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 16, 2008, 11:26:27 pm
Other more ambitious plans incluce an idea that inspired all of this. BTW Thank you Japan. (RIE)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Try2004.gif)


The proposed structure is so large that it cannot be built with currently available materials, due to their weight. The design relies on the future availability of super-strong lightweight materials based on carbon nanotubes. The Shimizu TRY 2004 Mega-City Pyramid is a proposed project for construction of a massive pyramid over Tokyo Bay in Japan. The structure would be 12 times higher than the Great Pyramid at Giza, and would house 750,000 people. If built, it will be the largest man-made structure on Earth. The structure would be 2,004 meters (6,575 feet) high and would answer Tokyo's increasing lack of space.

By the way Japan. Here is the technology for spinning webs of the material you are planning to use.

(http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/spiderman-spinneret-nozzle.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 16, 2008, 11:41:31 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Death_star1.png)

And finally, an outcome of exactly where all this is going.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 20, 2008, 11:59:26 am
(http://www.theforce.net/SWTC/Pix/magazines/starlog/ds1tj2.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 20, 2008, 01:50:27 pm
Now this blue print of the Death Star ofcourse is not my proposal, but you can see how things like this can be inspiring. When imaging a huge crew of engineers, machinist, scientist, biologist, mechanics and so on going to Mars it excites me. Having a mechanical marvel like a Death Star is still out of the realm of any serious proposals to date.

However, let's consider the thread for a moment. With design alterations to this impossible feat, I beleive sencerely that it can and should be done for the sake of exploration. The problems involving sheilding, 0 gravity, and time of mission have all been solved with this design. A fully automated, self-sustaining station is exactly what can be acheived with the explained technologies.
 



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 20, 2008, 02:14:57 pm
As far as the main cannon well goes  ::).....
Let's use it in the design for the sake of sensory and communication.

BTW I would have four such wells located in the equatorial sections of our fully sheilded Buckyball design.
For propulsion- ion propulsion would be used in the Equatorial areas between communication arrays for rotation and manuvering. This research falls within the realm of physics instead of technology, with the distinction being that physics is about uncovering the laws of nature while technology is about applying that physics to build useful devices. A renewed commitment to Nuclear propulsion is everything.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 20, 2008, 02:21:36 pm
Oxygen production- Artificial photosynthesis.  ;)
As covered.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 21, 2008, 12:31:48 am
Now by looking at this particular map, what place in mars would be the most interesting to you?

(http://www.bizton.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/atlas_b.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 21, 2008, 12:18:42 pm
Sheilding?


If exposed to an electric charge, buckypaper could be used to illuminate computer and television screens. It would be more energy-efficient, lighter, and would allow for a more uniform level of brightness than current cathode ray tube (CRT) and liquid crystal display (LCD) technology.
As one of the most thermally conductive materials known, buckypaper lends itself to the development of heat sinks that would allow computers and other electronic equipment to disperse heat more efficiently than is currently possible. This, in turn, could lead to even greater advances in electronic miniaturization.
Because it has an unusually high current-carrying capacity, a film made from buckypaper could be applied to the exteriors of airplanes. Lightning strikes then would flow around the plane and dissipate without causing damage.
Films also could protect electronic circuits and devices within airplanes from electromagnetic interference, which can damage equipment and alter settings. Similarly, such films could allow military aircraft to shield their electromagnetic "signatures," which can be detected via radar.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 22, 2008, 01:48:18 pm
(http://san-diego.siggraph.org/articles/JBIS/jbis_article_files/jbis_article1.gif)

(http://san-diego.siggraph.org/articles/JBIS/jbis_article_files/jbis_article6.gif)

(http://san-diego.siggraph.org/articles/JBIS/jbis_article_files/jbis_article7.gif)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 23, 2008, 09:51:12 pm
(http://www.intensiondesigns.com/itd-biotensegrity/biotensegrity/papers/images/geometry_of_anatomy_images/fig_2_platonic_solids.jpg)

(http://eng.midasuser.com/products/mesh/images/si_fgo.gif)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 23, 2008, 10:07:03 pm
To begin with, I thought of a Buckyball design that could make an awesomely strong self-assembling frame work for a death star sized space station. Now because the plan requires the frame to be as internally stable as the external frame work I would need a design that offers the best of both worlds.

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/120CellGraph_700.gif)

hyperdodecahedron

Animated

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/cell120.gif)

 ;) At 120 dodecahedra, with 3 to an edge, and 720 pentagons. The 120-cell has 600 vertices and 1200 edges. It is one of the six regular polychora. One can only guess at the structural strength.


The dual of 120 cells is a 600 cell design:
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/600CellGraph_700.gif)
Animated

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/cell600.gif)

 It is composed of 600 tetrahedra, with 5 to an edge. The 600-cell has 120 vertices and 720 edges.

Note the natural spherical shape that this geometry creates.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 31, 2008, 07:26:09 pm
Now, I would like to invite any structural engineer to explore this design.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on May 31, 2008, 09:57:34 pm
You HAVE been busy haven't you?
Have you got transport tubes in that thing?  I sure wouldn't want to have to walk to work every day!!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on May 31, 2008, 10:36:18 pm
Imagine a Star Trek movie with a Borg Hyperdodecahedron.

 :o :o :o :o


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2008, 02:01:19 pm
I did actually, and alot of this idea is very Borg like.
In fact it's almost a mixture of star wars and star trek sciences and theories being acheived to the best of our abilities or that we do know of.


http://youtu.be/GQIL1PoIJgg


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2008, 02:09:03 pm
Hyperdodecahedron appears to be the most stable structure to support the sheer size of the thing under it's our gravity. I still want a structural engineer to examine weight distrubutions and overall design.
Volitzer- are you aquainted with space shuttle dynamics? I am studying possible designs for shuttles launched from an electro-magnetic rail-guns.

Summary: Development of Maglev (magnetic levitation), a new mode of transport in which high speed vehicles are magnetically levitated and propelled along a guideway, began in 1966 with the invention of superconducting Maglev by Powell and Danby. Since there is no mechanical contact or friction, the speed of Maglev vehicles is only limited by air drag. In the atmosphere, the practical limit is about 500 kilometers per hour (/spl sim/300 mph). In low pressure (e.g., 1 torr or less) tubes or tunnels, speed is only limited by the straightness of the route, and the distance between stations, with the need to accelerate and decelerate. Tunnels are generally too expensive, 30 million dollars per mile or more, to be practical for most Maglev routes. However, undersea tubes have the potential to be lower in cost, and can provide intercontinental travel at speeds of thousands of miles per hour.

Any design concepts in mind?
 :)

I have a particular location that can provide hydro-electric power and it's almost right on the equator.
Because the first launches will be sending the fully automated systems, no human launches will have to be done right of way. If our material can be packed into these transformable shuttle systems to handle alot of G-forces, we can launch those things one right after the other at any speed they can handle.

The shttles would have to be made of the same little robots that they will be carrying into space.
This is the challenge. First these units will have to assemble into launchable units. Then enter orbit, transform into the next portion of assembly. Then selfsustain itself using collective systems and comunication with command satellites that will eventually become a part of the structure as well.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2008, 02:19:29 pm
Quote
Have you got transport tubes in that thing?

Actually yes. Mag-lev trains with transport tubes attached to the structual supports and other internal frame tress structures.
Instead of the train riding on a rail from underneith, it will be suspended from overhead and on the sides.
Triple-rail. Train design is arrow-shaped to reduce drag.
How fast will it be?
Because there is no mechanical contact between the Maglev vehicles and its guideway, friction and wear do not impose any limit on the speed of the vehicle. A few short minutes and your at a location clear on the other side of the station. Mass transit systems are only one of the ideas. Personal transit might also be discussed in the near future.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2008, 09:26:22 pm
If this can be acheived: 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Try2004.gif)
The structure would be 12 times higher than the Great Pyramid at Giza, and would house 750,000 people. If built, it will be the largest man-made structure on Earth. The structure would be 2,004 meters (6,575 feet) high.
By creating:
(http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/spiderman-spinneret-nozzle.jpg)

We can go for something that is atleast 10 times the size of this and you would end up with:
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/600CellGraph_700.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2008, 09:32:28 pm
 :)  What a metalic model of this design produces is:
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/120CellMetal.jpg)

As we begin the adventure through this maze of structural components, notice the way every cross member seems to interact with every other member in it's pod.
(http://blog.makezine.com/etoaphoto_1.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 03, 2008, 11:46:21 pm
(http://davidf.faricy.net/polyhedra/images/5tet_layer16.png)
Orthographic Veiw

(http://davidf.faricy.net/polyhedra/images/dual_ico.png)
Construction phases


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/01.png)
1. Start with a single dodecahedron.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/02.png)
2. Now add one dodecahedron on each face of the first dodecahedron. First add one in the back, and five around that.

(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/03.png)
3. Now we have seven. (one is directly in back and not visible)


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/04.png)
4. Add five more, and finally a twelfth right in front.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/05.png)
5. Now we have one central dodecahedron with twelve around it, for a total of thirteen dodecahedra. Notice that there are now twenty little indentations or dimples, one corresponding to each vertex of the original red dodecahedron. Only five are really visible, but if you compare their location to the original dodecahedron, you can see that they are in the same location.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/06.png)
6. We now add one dodecahedron in each of the twenty dimples. In this step we add ten (five of which are in the rear and not visible)


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/07.png)
7. Now we have twenty three.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/08.png)
8. Now add five more.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/09.png)
9. Now we have twenty eight


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/10.png)
10. Finally, add the last five.

(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/11.png)
11. Now there are thirty-three (1 + 12 +20) dodecahedrons. Notice that there are now twelve dimples, corresponding to each of the faces of the original dodecahedron. (look at the green faces).


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/12.png)
12. Now we add dodecahedra in each of these spaces. First add one directly in back, then five around it (all not visible here), then five more, that you see here, and finally a last one right in front.


(http://www.theory.org/geotopo/120-cell/13.png)
13. Now we have 45 ( 1 + 12 + 20 + 12 ) dodecahedra. Again, we look for dimples. They are hard to see because the shapes are beginning to get stretched and flattened. They are where two of the yellow dodecahedra come together. Again, they also correspond to parts of the original dodecahedra- this time, the edges. Ten of them are visible, but only five here look like dimples.

And done with a fully autonomous system.......


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 04, 2008, 12:08:05 am
(http://www.esa.int/images/sailhexagon_v2_L.jpg)
Remember these from earlier on?

Assembles into;


(http://davidf.faricy.net/polyhedra/images/dual_ico.png)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2008, 12:46:40 pm
Touching base on transportation aboard our station, we discussed mag-lev systems.
A maglev, or magnetically levitating train is a form of transportation that suspends, guides and propels vehicles (predominantly trains) using electromagnetic force. This method has the potential to be fast and quiet when compared to wheeled mass transit systems, potentially reaching velocities comparable to turboprop and jet aircraft (900 km/h, 600 mph). The highest recorded speed of a maglev train is (361 mph), achieved in Japan in 2003, 6 km/h higher than the conventional TGV speed record.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2008, 12:51:57 pm
More personalized transportation is already in the proposal stage for mag-lev transportation.

(http://thecontaminated.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/sky-transport-vehicles-2.jpg)

This SkyTran system operates with individual, two-passenger vehicles, which are propelled and suspended by a maglev system from overhead guideways.

Looks like it would be a total blast. This pod is probably made with a super light weight material and the speed would be incredible. The G-forces would play a role on how fast it would be and what that individual could handle. Then a final set speed for everyone would have to be figured out to avoid things like catastrophic collisions and road rage. However computer controlled motion and monitoring system would be in place to prevent collisions at a merge points in travel.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 18, 2008, 08:33:46 pm
 It would end the world's dependency on oil and do away with the entire need for this portion of our industry.  :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 29, 2008, 03:45:46 am
 ;D Given all the information so far, who has any questions?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on July 05, 2008, 04:02:14 pm
Landers


Aerospace giant Boeing is believed to be experimenting with anti-gravity technology pioneered by a controversial Russian researcher.

According to Jane’s Defence Weekly magazine, the company has admitted that it is working on technology that could reduce the pull of gravity— or increase it for the purpose of building weapons. If such experiments prove successful, Boeing would capsize more than 100 years of traditional aerospace propulsion tactics.

The magazine claims that the company is doing the work at its Phantom Works advanced research and development facility in Seattle. What’s more, Jane’s says the company is trying to get controversial Russian scientist Dr Evgeny Podkletnov to help it reach its goal of building an anti-gravity device. Podkletnov claims to have developed anti-gravity devices in Russia and Finland in the mid-1990s.

Podkletnov’s project, GRASP (Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion), is the basis for most work in the “gravity shielding” field. The Russian scientist claimed in a 1996 paper submitted to Physica C that he had created a “gravity shielding” device, whereby objects suspended above a superconductor rotating at 5,000rpm showed an apparent fall in weight of 2 per cent.

But the paper was leaked to the press before being published in the journal, and the negative reaction from the scientific community led him to withdraw it. Some copies have survived on the Internet, but the experiment has not been re-created in other labs. Critics say that even if it was successful it would be far too expensive to build superconductors big enough to produce any substantial weight reduction, especially not on a commercial basis.

The GRASP project as a whole has the purpose of exploring “propellentless” propulsion for the purpose of building space launch systems, artificial gravity on spacecraft, and fuelless electricity generation, also called “free energy,” Jane’s reports. There is also speculation that the technology could be used to build powerful weapons, namely a device called an “impulse gravity generator,” which would theoretically be capable of producing a beam of energy that can exert a force of 1,000g (1,000 times the acceleration produced by earth’s gravity at sea level) on any object. Such a weapon would supposedly vapourise virtually any object.

According to Podkletnov, a Russian laboratory demonstrated the 4in (10cm) wide beam’s ability to repel objects a kilometre away.

NASA reportedly tried to build a similar anti-gravity machine in the mid-1990s but failed. Jane’s says the US government will commence a second round of similar tests at Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama in the coming months.

Boeing is reportedly attempting to recruit Podkletnov, but because of moves by the Russian government to block the egress of scientists to the West, the company is experiencing difficulty. The UK’s BAE Systems and Lockheed Martin are also thought to have contacted Podkletnov to assist their efforts along these lines.



http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020905/science.htm#4


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 04, 2009, 04:21:42 pm
Self-replicating robots, which shocked even C-3PO, himself a robot, have become a reality on Earth in the form of Fabbers, printers that can create virtually any object and even clone themselves. We first introduced you to Fabbers about a year ago so it's time we revisit these machines that bring the power of printing into the third dimension.

The people behind Fabbers, mostly academics and hobbyists at this point, believe that digital fabricators have the potential to become one of the most transformative technologies of the 21st century. Eventually the concepts behind the current and somewhat primitive Fabbers will facilitate breakthroughs in medicine, such as nano-Fabbers, and space travel. Eventually, futurists predict the arrival of, a Universal Fabber, which can reproduce almost anything, including itself.

While Z Corp already produces expensive industrial machines to pump out prototypes for big corporations, the Fabber movement brings the open-source, do-it-yourself mentality of the early personal computer era to 3-D printing.

The RepRap Research Foundation, which took shape in 2004 when University of Bath Professor Adrian Bowyer published Wealth Without Money: The Background to the Bath Replicating Rapid Prototyper Project, offering his Fabber blueprint for free, with the goal of making the machines cheap enough for everyone to enjoy. A model that replicates itself has already been built, but the timetable for making it remain unclear (later this year we hope).

RepRap members believe that Fabbing technology represents something larger than a breakthrough in printing. They hope Fabbing will become a disruptive technology that will replace existing means of production, and, perhaps even make society less dependent on money.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Weapon of Mass Destruction on January 10, 2009, 06:45:27 am
Of course, much of this is a reality now, self-replicating robots, Martian landers, but I am afraid that the economic crisis that the world is going through will push back things like Mars exploration for years.

We should have been there by now, though!  At the pace that the Apollo program was put together, we could have gotten there in the Reagan years had there been the leadership.  Reagan was more interested in building the Star Wars missile system instead.   >:(


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 11, 2009, 12:50:01 pm
Regaurdless if any of this stuff would ever happen,  :) I like to beleive that someday down the road money won't be the issue anymore. What do you think of the whole picture so far?



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 11, 2009, 12:51:59 pm
I see you sungate.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Pagan on January 23, 2009, 12:10:07 pm
Hey, Sonny, I notice you never got around to the advances in the sex field in the future, hadn't you best get around to that now, too?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 15, 2009, 09:17:20 pm
 ;D well now that varies on how women and men learn about sex in the future.
Ofcourse if this giant flying buckyball in space ever pans out, you and the mate of your choice will be able to go for it in alien enviroments.

You betcha!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: 0_o on August 23, 2009, 12:50:36 pm
Not acheivable at this time but definitely a good odea.
I like it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on August 24, 2009, 01:42:27 am
;D Given all the information so far, who has any questions?

Did I miss it?  What are your mega-buckyballs made out of - graphite?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Jennie McGrath on September 09, 2009, 12:53:14 am
Well, since Herefornow is no longer here, I guess this is MY thread now.

If you would want to get to Mars, how would you do it, and what would you want to set up there first?  I imagine we'd have to do some terraforming first.  That would take a century.  Then we'd open it up to bids.  Who would want to open the first McDonalds up there?

Come to think of it, do we really want to go to Mars first?  Maybe the moons Europa or Titan would be a bit more hospitable to human life!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Event Horizon on September 12, 2009, 11:05:33 pm
(http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/wp-content/themes/discover/img/logo.gif)

Ion Thrusters Come of Age for Interplanetary Spacecraft


(http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/files/2009/09/mercury-probe.jpg)
Engines powered by chemical fuel? How passé. For the spacecraft with truly modern flair, an ion thruster is the only way to go. Such a system might not provide powerful and dramatic bursts of speed, but space agencies around the world are recognizing the benefits of its slow-and-steady approach, which is just what’s needed for cruising between planets.

Ion propulsion works by electrically charging, or ionizing, a gas and accelerating the resulting ions to propel a spacecraft. The concept was conceived more than 50 years ago, and the first spacecraft to use the technology was Deep Space 1 in 1998. Since then … there have only been a few other noncommercial spacecrafts that have used ion propulsion [Technology Review]. However, the technology has a clear advantage over chemical propulsion when it comes to long distance missions, because a very small amount of gas can carry a spacecraft a long way. Astronautics expert Alexander Bruccoleri explains that with chemical propulsion, “You are limited in what you can bring to space because you have to carry a rocket that is mostly fuel” [Technology Review].

Now, a European Space Agency (ESA) probe will use four ion thrusters to scoot all the way to Mercury, the planet nearest to the sun. That mission won’t launch until 2014, but ESA officials say the $37 million propulsion system will be the most efficient yet, and will also be the most ambitious test of the technology to date. The Mercury probe will be launched by a conventional rocket, and will continue to use chemical propulsion until it’s out of Earth orbit. When it begins its six-year cruise to Mercury, though, its ion thrusters will kick in. The system will draw electricity from solar panels; as the xenon ions pass through the electrified grids they accelerate to up to 50km a second (31 miles per second) and shoot from the rear in a parallel beam. On Earth, at sea level, the thrust would be just enough to lift a pound coin. In space, however, the same thrust will create a much much bigger lift [Telegraph].

Meanwhile, NASA is developing new ion engines under the NASA Evolutionary Xenon Thruster (NEXT) program, and has also partnered with Ad Astra Rocket Company. That agreement paves the way for Ad Astra’s VASIMR system to be fired in space, attached to the International Space Station, if further ground-based tests are successful…. If flight testing on the space station goes according to plan, Ad Astra hopes to win a NASA contract to use VASIMR to provide the periodic boosts needed to keep the ISS in its orbit [New Scientist]. Ion thrusters have been suggested for a possible manned expedition to Mars, although such missions are in doubt following a presidential panel’s declaration that NASA’s human spaceflight program is on an “unsustainable trajectory.”

But it isn’t clear how the panel’s recommendations will affect NASA’s space-faring plans. It may be worth noting that ion thrusters got an appreciative nod from NASA’s new administrator, Charles Bolden, during his Senate confirmation hearings, when Bolden called lawmakers’ attention to an ion engine that can enable trips to Mars in “39 days instead of 8 to 11 months” [New Scientist].

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/09/08/ion-thrusters-come-of-age-for-interplanetary-spacecraft/


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 22, 2009, 03:08:25 pm
;D Given all the information so far, who has any questions?

Did I miss it?  What are your mega-buckyballs made out of - graphite?


Raw materials- or space debris from the formation of our solar system on down to things we launched during the cold war. Material would be collected by robotic mining equipment and refined to be remanufactured into useful materials that would make up the structural components. After stage 3 of the construction phase it would be collecting Raw Materials_via collision, and the fully autonomous refining of these materials would be done in the middle regions of the shell of this station.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 22, 2009, 03:14:43 pm
Well, since Herefornow is no longer here, I guess this is MY thread now.

If you would want to get to Mars, how would you do it, and what would you want to set up there first?  I imagine we'd have to do some terraforming first.  That would take a century.  Then we'd open it up to bids.  Who would want to open the first McDonalds up there?

Come to think of it, do we really want to go to Mars first?  Maybe the moons Europa or Titan would be a bit more hospitable to human life!

We will share!
We are married by forum now. LOL


Traveling outside of the solar system in search of Earth-like planets id the primary mission of this space station, or cosmic Arc if you would like. The Exodus Project if ever done on this scale, would be able to sustain and nurish the generations of human kind that bravely accepted this life style.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 22, 2009, 03:16:10 pm
Not acheivable at this time but definitely a good odea.
I like it.

Is acheivable and can be done.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 23, 2009, 12:45:44 am
 :)  Holy Buckyballs Batman!  I see that the rumors of your departure were greatly exaggerated, HereForNow.   Congats on the design.  This thread has grown as much as the whole forum has, LOL.   

I agree with your optimism.  Money is not the real obstacle:  Ignorance is.  The economy always has its ups and downs, just like the seasons.  The point is not how fast we get there, it’s just TO get there, LOL.   And Regan never built “Star Wars” “Weapons of Mass Destruction”, (at least not as far as we civilians know).  But his mere threat to build it single handedly took down the entire soviet empire without firing a shot, LOL.  Of  course we have to wonder if they really did spend $100 dollars a piece on a toilet seats, or if that’s just what the books say, and the money actually went on building a real “Star Wars” defense system. 

You just might be the next Jules Verne, HereForNow.  You know unless someone can envision something like an atomic submarine in the 1800’s, then the young scientists of the 1900’s wouldn’t have it in their heads to try and build one. 

All this talk of mass destruction in 2012 has got me to thinking where would it be safe if the Mayan prophesies came true?  Their predictions are that this world, (the forth one in ancient Hopi Legends), will end in bombardments of celestial objects and worldwide earthquakes.  Just where on Earth would you be safe from something like that?  I certainly wouldn’t want to be in an underground fortress safe from the impacts of asteroids if there was going to be massive earthquakes as well.  So I guess the real answer is that this time, building an Arc won’t work, and neither will hiding underground so…
GET US OFF OF THIS ROCK, before we all go the way of the dinosaurs, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 23, 2009, 12:59:50 am
 :) 
QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
Traveling outside of the solar system in search of Earth-like planets id the primary mission of this space station, or cosmic Arc if you would like. The Exodus Project if ever done on this scale, would be able to sustain and nurish the generations of human kind that bravely accepted this life style.


This exact theme was a TV show back in the 80ies.  The ship was comprised of “biospheres” and had various independent societies representative of earth, (which in many cases didn’t even know about the other ones).  For example one biosphere was an Amish community, which didn’t even know it was on a space ship.  The theme of the show was that the navigators of the ship had been killed and the ship was adrift in space.  One group was trying to get all the biospheres to work together to get the ship back on course.

So there it is again.  The “fiction” comes first, and then if it’s vision is “true” then the next generation of scientists see it as a possibility and begin to make plans on how to built it.  But it never happens until someone brings forth the possibility.  You get all the technical plans together here, and I'll try and turn it into a screenplay, LOL.  Instead of a "Death Star" maybe we could call it a "Life Star", LOL.  In my humble opinion there is no other option.  If it takes a planet of six billion to get mankind to the moon, then maybe we're "underpopulated".  If we don't get mankind off of this rock soon, we just may be the next species to go extinct.  Keep on posting HereForNow.  A "Space Arc" is exactly what we need!
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 23, 2009, 01:25:18 pm
Thank you so much Mike.

The point of this entire thread is exactly that.
To inspire the imagination of others to look at the possibilities and potential of the human race right now.
The first city on a new world we named Eden will be called Atlantis.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Qoais on December 23, 2009, 03:30:40 pm
Good idea!!  Eden and Atlantis.  I like it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 23, 2009, 10:41:35 pm
 :)  I’ll second that.  Wow, imagine naming a new city on a new planet!   Who wouldn’t want to at least visit a planet named Eden!!  What a dream come true that would be.  All we need is a star ship and I can see the ads now:  “Cruise the galaxy and visit planet Eden… stay in the luxurious Hotel Poseidon in Atlantis its capital city.”   
;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 24, 2009, 03:00:21 pm
http://www.popsci.com/futurecity/plan.html

Ideas of what we know we can do once we get to a new world are all over the net.
Ideally we know that the use of our current abilities involving energy production is limited to economical situations that we will not have to experience. We would not repeat the mistakes their that we contribute to here.
By looking at both photos, I can imaging incorperating both designs into one.


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Try2004.gif)

(http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/08/Timelinks_Ziggurat.jpg)


(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/03/article-0-0281C36F00000578-248_468x286_popup.jpg)
(wish list for Atlantis idea)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Sebastian Volkmer on December 24, 2009, 10:39:05 pm
That is a really cool project, Herefornow, I hadn't even heard of this high tech pyramid, and I try and keep up to date on all the latest science.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 24, 2009, 10:41:53 pm
Imagine flying in to cities with millions of people not born of the Earth greeting you in English and welcoming you to the planet. All from past colonies who were born of Earth.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 24, 2009, 10:44:39 pm
That is a really cool project, Herefornow, I hadn't even heard of this high tech pyramid, and I try and keep up to date on all the latest science.

The cosmic Arc called the Exodus, (giant flying buckyball in space)
would be the greatest thing ever done in all of this.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Mercury on December 25, 2009, 06:14:13 am
Not certain that Mars would be the best prospect for colonization.  It would take some terraforming and everything I have heard about it would mean that it would take centuries.

Titan and Europa might be more inhabitable.  Course, we haven't been to either so we just don't know.

In any event, at least we are into rockets again and are going to kick the space shuttles back.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 25, 2009, 10:45:42 am
Not certain that Mars would be the best prospect for colonization.  It would take some terraforming and everything I have heard about it would mean that it would take centuries.

Titan and Europa might be more inhabitable.  Course, we haven't been to either so we just don't know.

In any event, at least we are into rockets again and are going to kick the space shuttles back.

The general Idea of the whole Mars subject is more to show how an idea like this overcomes the obstacles that are holding us up right now. One of the huge advantages to this whole thing is being able to go to and from the surface using a state of the art lander that is controlled from the Exodus. Science teams as large as 50-60 men and women can conduct study of the Martian surface. The lander drops off the next team and the first teams returns.
Cycling between 2, 3, 10 landers at a time would get more science done.


Secondly, we are dealing in quantum computing. We might be able to travel well beyond this solar system. To places light years away, Travel at the quantum level is not outside the realm of possibilities here. Mars is not as interesting as an Earth-like world in a different solar system. The exodus will be able to answer questions about space that we haven't even asked yet. It is self aware and almost alive. It's enviroment is space.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 27, 2009, 01:11:28 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM MERCURY:

Quote
Not certain that Mars would be the best prospect for colonization.  It would take some terraforming and everything I have heard about it would mean that it would take centuries.

Greeting fellow Merurian, LOL.  Welcome to the forums.  I've read several books on this subject.  One theory has it that the whole reason the red planet is red is that it once had an oxygen rich atomsphere and now everything has been oxydized red.  I am of the personal belief that in the far distant past, (500,000 years ago or more), someone intelligently terraformed Mars, but it later fell victim to a geological catastrophe.  But that's just conjecture.  However the only thing keeping Mars from becoming inhabitable is a denser atmosphere which would raise the temperature of the planet allowing for liquid water to once again flow on the surface.  Of all the plans I've read about there is one which would not take centuries to achieve.  All that needs to be done is to divert one of those gigantic chunks of ice floating around the solar system, (no not a comet).  Not all of the objects in the asteroid belt are rocks.  I beleive I've read that some of the asteriods are primarily ice, although not the same composition as the ice in comets.  A properly planted detonation on said chunk of floating space ice could send it on a collision course with the red planet, a trip that coming from the asteriod belt which as per Boyles Law should be the next planet out from Mars.  The impact should instantly vaporiize the ice chunk into vaporus water, instantly giving Mars a considerably denser atmosphere.

I'm not saying I'd like to be anywhere near Mars if and when that impact were to occur, LOL  Nor am I saying I'm in favor of instituting a geological disater to an innocent planet.  Though I'm not sure just how long it would take for things to calm down after the impact so that people could land there.  But the change in temperature and conditions for lliquid water to flow on the surface shoulc be fairly quick.  I don't think we're talking centuries.
 ;)
Mike
 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 27, 2009, 01:30:42 pm
Law on a new world:


No fighting- Reasoning must govern our acts.
No killing- War, and causing harm to others with such terror and violence is stictly prohibited.
No Cospiracy- Planning to commit crimes is prohibited. (Lying, cheating, and consenting to commit crime)
No stealing- There is no reason to steal another persons personal property and will not be tolerated.
No raping- If anyone is proven and found guilty of this crime, Exile to imprisonment for life is your fate.
   We will not pollute or corrupt- self explained and defined. (Corrupting anything and shall not use fossil fuels or create anything that will hurt the planet.)

Use only what is needed from the land, and leave it as you found it.
Everyone will be fairly given the chance to present proof of guilt and innocents without bias.

Anyone caught doing any of these things and found guilty of such crime will face exile back to Earth...
Or Exile to isolation centers.





Simple-


These laws will be visible on a stone plaque in the center of any city made in this new world.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 27, 2009, 02:06:07 pm
 :)  Good laws, HereForNow.  Too bad our success rate on this planet is batting 0%, LOL.  My father, God rest his soul had the most amusing theory I’ve encountered about UFO’s.  He believed that Earth was a penal colony for the humanoid criminals of the universe… a kind of Galactic Australia if you will.   His evidence for his theory was, “just look around, and how else can you explain what’s going on in this world”.   And for further justification it answers the question of why UFO’s haven’t contacted us… hello… we’re the ones in exile, LOL. 
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 27, 2009, 05:03:18 pm
Well then it sounds to me like all of this happened in some distant history and we will be joining them once this is done.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 27, 2009, 05:32:07 pm
Illuminati= Secret society, of People claiming to be unusually enlightened with regard to a subject.
(Mission-World control)
Exodus+Noah's Arc..  (both biblical stories)

God's answer to both The Exodus, and Noah's Arc.
To be examined.

Becoming and leading up to Revelations.

12 tribes

In mention:
Jacob fathered 12 sons. They are the ancestors of the tribes of Israel, and the ones for whom the tribes are named. Each occupied a separate territory (except the tribe of Levi, which was set apart to serve in the Holy Temple).


Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Joseph*
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun

12,000 each tribe. 144,000 total
Inherit the heavens and the Earth.

Both written of moses in regaurd to Exodus, The Arc.
The 10 Commandments To be considered as to how his people were supposed to abide by these laws.
 The followers-Drunk in the wine of fornication.


 
 We must stop repeating the same mistakes and do these things regaurdless of persecution, from religion and goverment. In kind, Moses told us how our ancestors did this. Removing the Religious aspect for a moment.
The message is clear to steer away from what government, and fear of kind is going to do.
Follow your heart. Make into space, and inherit a "New Heaven and New Earth".......




The Capital city of Atlantis over looks the Garden of Moses.....
(Plants and animals from Earth-Earth Reserve)

:)


Once There, I would write about what we did.
The bible contains BC and AD.
This is neither era so we could name it AE.....
(After_Earth)













Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 27, 2009, 08:56:33 pm
 :)  Finding our way to a new planet to start a new world is certainly Biblical in proportion.  Perhaps the Garden of Eden that Adam and Eve were exiled from lies somewhere else in the universe and this is where they were exiled. 

As for not repeating past mistakes, I’m afraid we may be “slow learners” as species go.  They rebuilt San Francisco on the same fault line that leveled it, knowing full well another one just as devastating was bound to happen someday.  New Orleans is still a city in a hurricane prone area that lies lower than the sea level, and after it’s devastated we just rebuild it.   Just a couple of examples that come to mind.

Either we’re a species that likes to live on the edge, or we’re just plain dumb, LOL.

Can we only allow intelligent people on this new planet?  ‘Cause then maybe we can get it right, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 28, 2009, 01:07:32 am
Quote
As for not repeating past mistakes, I’m afraid we may be “slow learners” as species go.  They rebuilt San Francisco on the same fault line that leveled it, knowing full well another one just as devastating was bound to happen someday.  New Orleans is still a city in a hurricane prone area that lies lower than the sea level, and after it’s devastated we just rebuild it.   Just a couple of examples that come to mind.

Either we’re a species that likes to live on the edge, or we’re just plain dumb, LOL.

Can we only allow intelligent people on this new planet?  ‘Cause then maybe we can get it right, LOL.

Currency contributes to the way power hungery barbarians insure property, and rebuild property. This is why we are so.......
Population goes down, granting greater control of asset aquired. And we continue by law to pay it.
Because we choose to have no choice for now. ;) However it would only take 2 or 3 of the world's elite to see the error of his/her seven deadly sins to come back to our side of the feild for a moment.


Quote
  Now I, oh greedy I am have seen the dark as my light.
Yet I can't feel the path of your glory beneith my weary feet.
I now will shed this layer of filth, made of murder and lies and surrender my worldly goods to the survival and growth of all you created until it is all dispenced. Upon then, I will live my life with nothing and expecting nothing. That I be granted but one drop to savor?
I can be content with a photo.

It is a controlling factor behind who lives now-a-days, and who doesn't.
Fortunately those folks who can see these situations as a likely problem, do research geological stability.
Before Earth sent a lander to any planet or moon we had a pretty good idea of what we were landing on.
Advanced ground penetrating sonar with the power of quantum processing should be able to give us vivid feed on where the safest location is to establish mega-cities.
These are on the wish list for pre-launched probes that traveled via "Leap".....
Without the Electromagnetic rail gun probe launch.

Once sufficient data arrivived....

We would know exactly what to expect in regaurds to traveling there. Whats there, and when.
We'll have answers about the composure of all those things. Plus you can only imagine the computer simulated graphics of the High Def animation that the data would create with autonomy.

An idea? Something along the lines of:
(http://www.3dhifi.de/pics/amee_ed_s.jpg)(http://ffmedia.ign.com/red_planet/pics/amee_sketch.jpg)
 

~Harry~


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 28, 2009, 09:54:35 pm
 :) 
QUOTE FROM HereForNow:

Quote
Currency contributes to the way power hungery barbarians insure property, and rebuild property. This is why we are so.......
Population goes down, granting greater control of asset aquired. And we continue by law to pay it.

Couldn’t agree with you more on that point, Harry.  “Money IS the root of all evil”.  The prophets didn’t say that “the love of money is the root of all evil” or that “greed is the root of all evil”.   They said what they meant.  The money itself is the root of all evil… it’s the very system of exchange and the laws governing it that causes all the worlds problems. 

I just got Star Trek IV, (The Voyage Home) on Blu-ray for Christmas.  Kirk & the gang are stranded in San Franciso in the past in a wreaked ship and need to repair it.  Kirk says to bones, “They’re still using money” as he realizes they need some way to purchase the repair parts. 

Roddenberry was a visionary.  Food Replicators and Transporters combine to make the technology that level the whole playing field of exchange.  A million dollar Stradivarius violin becomes worthless if you can duplicate it a thousand times with that technology.  Money and the values of material goods change, making all that is needed available to everyone.  In Star Treks future society status and position replace just becoming “rich”.  The best you can achieve is to become a Star Ship Captain, not a Bill Gates.

P.S. Love the…. Okay what is that thing?  I want to call it a Robo Raptor, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 29, 2009, 08:44:16 am
Well mike it's more of a robotic Tiger/monkey. Mission to Mars was a movie that showed the creature on the right. The creature on the left is CG of a plan to build a real one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf8Q1gEUBgo&feature=player_embedded

Ofcourse movies made this a violent creature....  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjCM6XpS-w

This is the type of recon machine that I see being a real multi-tasker.
Something like this being prelaunched to gather intel on another world is more productive then sending something with wheels that moves 15 mph. I also see other potentials for this design that far exceed what we seen of it in the movies.

The fore-ground of this project is in Boston:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww&feature=player_embedded


Definitely not an AMEE but it walks on ice better then we do and it is a start.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on December 29, 2009, 08:23:29 pm
 :)  Okay, I saw “Mission To Mars” when it was in theatres years ago, and dragged my sons, who were kind of young for it with me.  The posters looked good but the movie was kind of a let down entertainment wise, LOL.  I remember the girl’s helmet cracking and her getting killed, and the rock falling on the other guy.  More people died in the orbiting spacecraft when it blew up.  It was like a disaster movie set in space, LOL.  But then they find out that the Martians kind of created humans,  (there was that bad DNA model thing), and it ended with Gary Sinise going off in a Martian Spaceship to meet the Martians in a kind of 2001 a Space Odyssey ending. 

But for the life of me I don’t recall that droid, LOL.  What part was that in???? LOL
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 30, 2009, 12:21:22 pm
I may have the name of the movie wrong... LOL
(just call me grace)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 30, 2009, 05:53:56 pm
(http://www.greenbang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/eden-project.jpg)

(http://os.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/torre_residential.jpg)

(http://www.chinese-tools.com/jdd/public/documents/cc/olive/20080918.cite-etoile.1.jpg)

(http://thumb2.visualizeus.com/thumbs/08/03/01/architecture,future-450969dd1436d2c2ef6dd52ded4d8bd3_m.jpg)


(http://seandodson.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/zira2.jpg)


When thinking about the future of architecture, it's easy to be excited.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 05, 2010, 01:14:23 pm
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/51/m_3e8b68440f6d1596c65c6f607345908c.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 09, 2010, 01:18:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X_HDSQXMI0


And here is an example of what I'm looking for brain power wise...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNQE11Y2tUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b59YPRJF32w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0XkhQIEsiA


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 11, 2010, 10:07:55 am



In asking God to allow us to see the world


through His eyes, we are asking that He heal our


perception of the world. It is then we begin to see


clearly with our Hearts and look out upon a world


released, liberated from our own suffering and delusion.


It is our pain, caused by our resistance to Forgive


ourselves as well as our fellow Immortals, which prevents


us from accessing our own Divinity.


Thus we hold the world hostage to our collective


nightmares and fear. Fellow Creatures will continue


to suffer, our ability to function as a global community


will continue to allude us, and our commitment to a world


of harmonious co-habitation and unity will not be realized.


We are all the assigned caretakers of Eden. We have


been given everything needed to nourish and cultivate this


Garden, to make Her a lush Paradise worthy to support


and sustain Gods children and their Divine potential


for Eternity. Will this potential be brought to fruition, or


shall it remain an unsuccessful attempt to express the


will of the Creator as we continue to feed the


insatiable cravings of the ego?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on January 14, 2010, 12:15:16 am
 :)  Wow, I didn’t realize you were so profound Harry. 

QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
Fellow Creatures will continue


to suffer, our ability to function as a global community


will continue to allude us, and our commitment to a world


of harmonious co-habitation and unity will not be realized


 But if we look far into the past I believe we have functioned as a global community, and apparently God was not too pleased with us.  Remember this story?


The Tower of Babel story
From Genesis 11:1-9

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.  


Maybe God doesn’t want us to get along, LOL.  I have this notion that God is like a movie producer, and this is all just one super feature length film.  Call me a chauvinist,  but if God is a guy, then he really isn’t into peace love and harmony.  Sure that’s what we want, ‘cause this is a reality show for us, but for him, that’s a chick flick.  If he’s a guy he wants to make a blow ‘em up action movie.  We’re the actors so of course we don’t want to risk our lives doing our own stunts.  But God can blow us up and put us back together with just a thought.  Point is how we think of the world, and how He thinks about it is way different.  If we skip ahead to the Apocalypse climax in the advanced script to this flick that John got a copy of, it’s definitely an action flick.  Kinda makes you want to get some nachos, and hang out with the Big Guy and watch it all on the big screen when you look at it that way.

Sorry for the levity.  It’s a bad habit of mine.  Did you write that?  It’s quite poetic.  I really like it.
 ;D
Mike







Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 13, 2010, 04:58:44 am
It would only take one individual to change the world if his/her idea works for all.....
However, it has been the responsibility of everyone on Earth to seek this change.
It's only the human race on this planet 

 
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/51/m_3e8b68440f6d1596c65c6f607345908c.gif)



Yet, what we have is the well defined attributes of accepting this nothingness or apathy in every individual. Because no one beleives in themselves. A difference is to wonder about something different.
Excite your minds with unique and free. Create your world and seek making something better for all who live there in it. Then discover what you can do different here in the world we share now.
The Exodus project...

Is and has been a dream of mine since the time Q and myself talked about exploring space in a different blog. Private enterprise to Mars, is how I veiw the furture of mankind being able to traverse across the stars. I would love to have experts in each displine of Science see this someday to explore it's possibilties. Prove them! However, it's only here for now for you all to ponder. I have enjoyed leaving this thread for that reason mostly. ; )


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 15, 2010, 07:18:09 am
:)  I’ll second that.  Wow, imagine naming a new city on a new planet!   Who wouldn’t want to at least visit a planet named Eden!!  What a dream come true that would be.  All we need is a star ship and I can see the ads now:  “Cruise the galaxy and visit planet Eden… stay in the luxurious Hotel Poseidon in Atlantis its capital city.”   
;)
Mike


Mike, I love you... LOL (deeply manly voice) Hows-a-bout a hug big boy?

 ::)

But yes it is on my mind more often. I once wrote in a different blog that evolution is driven by disaster.
In this, all of this dream is more or less inspired by making a difference. Self-fullfiling prophecy? I wish!!!!!!!
However, its all here. LOL Now it's up to who ever, where ever, to be enlightened by some aspect of the idea as a whole. The goal is making the Exodus interplanetary space station. And then finding where we are going with it.

This is the only thing that makes it a dream. All the Science-realities of this is here I beleive.
Either way..... I'm thankful that I was able to take it from the desires of imagination/inspirations and/or my fantasies and publish them somewhere that an open-minded number of people visit on the world-wide web for all the same reasons given here as well. Thank you everyone who participated in this thread for all the ideas and thoughts that you have expressed.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 21, 2010, 06:52:42 pm
:)  Finding our way to a new planet to start a new world is certainly Biblical in proportion.  Perhaps the Garden of Eden that Adam and Eve were exiled from lies somewhere else in the universe and this is where they were exiled. 

As for not repeating past mistakes, I’m afraid we may be “slow learners” as species go.  They rebuilt San Francisco on the same fault line that leveled it, knowing full well another one just as devastating was bound to happen someday.  New Orleans is still a city in a hurricane prone area that lies lower than the sea level, and after it’s devastated we just rebuild it.   Just a couple of examples that come to mind.

Either we’re a species that likes to live on the edge, or we’re just plain dumb, LOL.

Can we only allow intelligent people on this new planet?  ‘Cause then maybe we can get it right, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Hmmmmm. I would say that insurance companies are the ones making these choices.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 22, 2010, 08:51:02 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1NqBEWS8DA


: )

Many of the points that Carl Sagan points out is exactly why ideas like this is important to consider.
Will Mankind continue to destroy itself over control and greed? Or maybe, just maybe we will become a great civilisation that can solve its problems and will inhabit more then one planet.

Either way, it is my hope for us all to consider the impossible as a challenge. To acheive the impossible, and overcome all odds to finally free ourselves from ourselves without death, and destruction.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 24, 2010, 11:37:39 pm
 :)  If you've never read William Bramley's "The gods of Eden", then it's something that bears on what you've been saying here, Harry.  He was a dry as bone historian who set out to research the causes of war and came to a conculsion that even he couldn't believe!  His research shows war by war and step by step how people are not inclined to go to war.  In each instance we are set up by an outside party who manulipates both sides in the conflict.  His research goes deeper than the usual conspiracy theories that secret brotherhoods and powerful weathy families are behind it all.  He concludes that even those people have been duped.  Maybe there's hope for us on another planet, in another Eden, just not this one. 

Here's a guote from:

http://www.serendipity.li/eden.html (http://www.serendipity.li/eden.html)

Quote
Here is some information and comment relating to the thesis put forward by William Bramley in The Gods of Eden that the basic cause of war, genocide and conflict in history is not a viciousness innate in the human species (or even in the male part of it) but rather is the less-than-benevolent interference in human affairs by extraterrestrials (members of a race which had its origin other than on Earth, the Anunnaki). These ETs allegedly assume, when it suits their purposes, the forms of angels. But far from being angelic, they regard humans as their property and the Earth as an exploitable resource (somewhat like multinational corporations — is there a connection?).

;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 25, 2010, 04:40:05 am
Mike, as always thank you very much for participating in this idea. Your veiws are always welcome by me.
I will have to see what this William Bramley's book is expressing. As for life on another planet goes;
I have no doubt that people who can see past all the preconceived notions that we are all programmed by, would be able to hit the mark of a type 1 civilisation. Perhaps even a type 2.

Idealy, we have the ability to accomplish anything as long as we can think and "Act" outside the box.
To this point, we live day to day hoping for better days that haven't came. One of the reasons for this is "US"....

 :)
Yet the hope for all mankind is that people like you and I who express ideas like this and others openly, shows that we are not completely lost yet. There is a desire among the many for better, and this suggests that when and if poop hits the fan. That we will persist onward toward more productive ways of doing everything.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 26, 2010, 02:02:06 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM HEREFOR NOW:
Quote
That we will persist onward toward more productive ways of doing everything.

I want to give a big "AMEN" to that brother!  Boy could this country use some more of that kind of thinking right now.  I have been shaking my head thinking, "there has got to be a better way" about so many things.  Take the internal combustion engine for one thing.   I have always thought of it as dumb idea.  The damn thing has over 100,000 moving parts and just about shakes itself to death when it runs.

My first car was an Alfa Romeo 5 speed convertible.  It broke down like clockwork every Saturday Night just before my dates.  I have pictures of my prom dated pushing it in a gown to get it jump started!

Now here we are dependent on foreign oil, and more and more of my pay check being dumped down into the tank.  I designed a true hybrid electric car, (not the parallel hybrids they’re trying to pass off as serial hybrids) with regenerative braking power, while doodling in the 7th grade!  And still not one major car company is marketing one yet!  Now that’s not rocket science, if a 12 year old kid can think of it.

What happened to American ingenuity?  I’m getting ready to build it myself, because apparently Detroit just doesn’t want to build it for me.  Maybe it’s time we all got good and fed up with buying the junk they’re peddling and started building our own stuff again.  Personally I would be embarrassed to put my name on most of the poorly made crap they’re trying to market today!  It’s all made to fall apart and make you buy another one.

Okay so building the Space Station may be a little out of our reach at the moment.  Hopefully our kids will have a better shot at that before one of those newly discovered asteroids decides to send us all the way of the dinosaurs.  But how about a better way to power our homes and cars now, and without oil. 

P.S.  Do you know any good machinists? 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 26, 2010, 02:37:38 am
 :D

I think new ideas for things here on our planet, is here already.

For the Autos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2QciCN5Ks

For the electrical production in our homes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGiWiXMHn0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Jko_yJpoQ

Now with these simple ideas, we have ultra-low cost conversions that can easily be applied.
 :)
Imagine, a motor-cycle using one of these ideas for power.
And the best part is that They didnt wait for someone to give them permission.
They just made these things and wah-laa.... Proactive steps leading us toward new ideas that we can do from home without a degree in rocket science.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 28, 2010, 10:25:50 pm
 :)  Not to sound like a conspiracy nut case, but although these ideas probably do indeed work, they will never see production.  They would put wealthy people who control the oil and electrical production, out of business and into the "poor house."   Think of it from an "oil barron's" point of view.  How could you "afford" to let something like a "water" powered car, be produced.  Those people would do anything to see that it never happens... and those kind of people are the ones calling the shots, because "money" is power, and they are very powerful.

To quote Star Trek IV, when they go back in time to San Francisco in the 90ies, "They're still using money... we'll have to get some."  On the other hand... can we get THOSE people onto the EXODUS interplanetary space station, and NOT the oil barons, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2010, 11:13:18 am
Mike I have been saying the same thing for years too brother. However, I say we do it anyways and simply not charge a dime for anything. LOL : )

Seriously!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 29, 2010, 12:09:27 pm
 :)  Totally agree!  Not that I’m a Trekie per say, but that’s why I’ve been a fan.  Both Star Wars and Star Trek offer views of humanity’s future.  Roddenberry envisioned a future with hope of a greater calling for humanity.  In one of the original series episodes Kirk says something to the effect that “yes we are a killer race, but we can choose NOT to kill today.” 

   Star Wars, on the other hand, (and I am a huge fan of that as well, and own every movie), has all the flaws and corruption of our current world, just with greater technology… (“the ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared with the power of the force“, not withstanding, LOL).

   Roddenberry foresaw two key pieces of technology that will change everything, the transporter and the food replicator…(and that technology is NOT in Star Wars).  However well thought out his creation was, or if he was just truly inspired, I can’t say.  But with those particular abilities, the entire social and financial infrastructure of our society crumble and are destined to change.

   If you can “beam” matter, and replicated not just a steak and potato meal, but actually disassemble a living human being and reassemble him, then follow that thought through to it’s implications.  What would then be the difference of beaming a priceless Stradivarius violin, or the Mona Lisa?  And if you could replicate it the way the food replicator does a steak and potato meal, (which would probably be less difficult than the meal), then it would no longer be priceless.  Everyone could have a copy of the Mona Lisa hanging in their living room at that point.  And if done on the monocular level, no expert could even determine which one was the original!

   Gold bars from Fort Knox could be reproduced infinitely and “beamed” to every home on planet Earth.  So then who is rich and who is poor at that point?  Money and financial wealth become pointless.  All our material needs can be met.  There is no hunger, starvation, or poverty, and material greed becomes a medical condition that calls for therapy.  The very causes of war are eliminated.

   So then being the wealthiest person on the planet is not a desirable goal.  Then what would be the next best challenge for those highly competitive humans?  We’d still have superstar athletes, musicians, actors, and the like, but wouldn’t the real brass ring be to command the latest cutting edge piece of technology and the crew that operates it?  Yes, you’d have to be the best of the best to be the captain of a Star Fleet ship, and take on the Romuluans, LOL.

   So on that note, who’d you have in mind for Commander of the Exodus? LOL
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2010, 02:44:53 pm
 ;D Well in order to command something like the Exodus, You must have a level 6 clearence to use the quantum computer system to lay in courses and authorize certain operations. You must be fair and willing to do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of your crew in the harshest enviroment known to man.

 We are Talking about generations of human beings working together aboard the Exodus.
After we arrive on Eden, you are free to do whatever you want. Aboard the Exodus we ask that you perform atleast 4 hours of service to the station and commit 2 hours of study to planet survival.
After the time is yours for family, friends, and recreation, creation, study....

The same may apply on the planet for those who want to continue higher learning about our new solar system, and other star systems. Regular monitoring of the Earth will also be a part of still another mission that would give us back the Earth, later.... Billions live here for now. If the Exodus delivers, Millions can dwell on multiple worlds networked through more Exodus-like stations to complete fleets of these crafts spanning the cosmos.

This would make a great movie....



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2010, 02:34:10 am
Quote
Gold bars from Fort Knox could be reproduced infinitely and “beamed” to every home on planet Earth.  So then who is rich and who is poor at that point?  Money and financial wealth become pointless.  All our material needs can be met.  There is no hunger, starvation, or poverty, and material greed becomes a medical condition that calls for therapy.  The very causes of war are eliminated.

Replication alone is key in meeting the supply/demand of everyone.
The real treasures, will become knowledge and experience. Which if these are exchanged for entitlement,
the goods in mention are worth more then gold.  :) Think about it....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2010, 07:11:54 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbGHp0Ieh1I
 ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnk_fdfZ_uI


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 31, 2010, 12:48:18 am
 :)  QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
The real treasures, will become knowledge and experience. Which if these are exchanged for entitlement,
the goods in mention are worth more then gold. Think about it....


And that’s what is buried beneath the Great Pyramid.  The tomb robbers found nothing of the fabled treasure when the broke into it.  That’s because the treasure is knowledge, and the true history of the human race. 

ANOTHER QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
This would make a great movie....

YES it would!  I’ve got a self-published novel about to go to print, and the story is already a screenplay and a TV Pilot.  I’m self taught, but if you want to get started on it I can show you the ropes.  Screenplays are much easier than novels.  No luck yet with mine, but I did get the hottest VP at NBC to read my TV Pilot of my story.
She passed on it, but she thought it was good enough to take a look at it.  Sci-Fi is hot in the entertainment industry right now.  So give that idea some serious thought.

Before the next generation of scientists bring dreams like a replicator into reality, someone has to write a fictional story about it to make the idea seem possible.
Jules Verne wrote about Atomic Powered Submarines, Manned Moon Flights, and Air Ships long before they were invented.  In many ways it’s the writers who change the world with their visions of a better future.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 31, 2010, 04:28:21 pm
 :) Now thats the optimism I look for.... LOL Thank you Mike.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on August 31, 2010, 11:27:46 pm
 :)Anytime pal.  I'm planning on starting a thread called "Inhabit the Sea". 
3/4ths of this world is water and much of what you've put forth here, that will
work in outer space, would work in the ocean.  The oceans are only subject to international law,
and for the time being, pretty much anything goes outside the three mile limit.
I'm thinking the ocean would be a good proving ground for an interplantary ship like the Exodus.
Hey you have to start somewhere, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 01, 2010, 04:21:03 am
I agree that this idea would work in Oceans world wide. However it makes this entire idea corruptable.
The world's Elite as we know them would make this their idea and none of us would ever benefit from it.
The intent behind an "Exodus" is to be "Free".  :) Recreating society to no longer determine a man's worth by how much he has, but how much he contributes in acts and knowledge. A system of entitlement based on these things seems to better fit the task at hand. Doing any of this on Earth, would only empower the wealthy even more then "WE" already do.

Ultimately, we must take a step toward becoming less dependant on any of these Earthly ways.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 01, 2010, 02:44:48 pm
 :)  I do see your point Harry, and you are right.  Perhaps I’m a little impatient, LOL.  The wealthy had Europe sewed up for centuries, and then the Great Experiment, America, allowed a few to slip out of their grasp for a while.  The pioneers of the frontier didn’t feel much of the tyranny of the Banks of Europe.  Anyone who was willing to work the land had a shot at a better life in the ever expanding New Territory. 

But the frontier closed, and the same powerful people tightened their grasp on the place that once offered hope to the oppressed.  Problem is that we’ve run out of frontier.  “Space, the final Frontier” offers that same hope.  But you can't get on a boat, sail across an ocean, get in a covered wagon and try to start a new life anywhere right now. 

Unfortunately we’re still at the stage where we’re trying to build a boat that could sail the new sea through the endless void of outer space.  Hey, right now only a privileged few, and highly trained astronauts get to see the beach front, LOL. 

So the ocean may not be the ultimate answer.  And any new place the hopeful find here will eventually be infiltrated by the greed of these same powerful few.  America had a good run for a while.  Camelot had it’s brief and shinning moment.  But the poverty stricken, down trodden masses need a new place to hope and dream right now.  The world needs another brief and shinning moment, however brief that mmoment might be.
 ;)
Mike

Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 01, 2010, 05:03:07 pm
 :) Well said and very reflective. Yet, I say we're stronger.

 ;D Mike, the only reason things are the way they are is because we make it possible. Just as no place is untouchable. It's all about "LIVING" on...
Suddenly, no obstacle is to great. No mountain to high. No sky-dive from space to the ground to bold. We have shown even in our destructivness that we can do anything.

Sometimes we just have to tell those people making statistics, to shove it and push on toward the goal. LOL

I know this sounds abit like I have my head in my butt. I have done some insanely crazy things and survived all of them. I beat my fear of heights by doing a static jump from an airplane at 4,500 ft. I survived living in poverty and crime infested areas of this city all my life. Overcame my fears about people. Did all the stuff that a Boy- does and then some just to see what it was like. And after everything, those who said I would never amount to anything were all proven wrong When I began working back in 1988 and am still working to this day like a good wage-slave does.
 ;)
My point is, all the odds have always been against me. And I pushed on and made it all work out in the end for the better. If I could atleast do a screen play on something like this. I know, atleast one in a hundred people will stop and think hard about the idea. And say, "Wow" that would do the job.

Sudden that boulder falls to the ocean, creating a wave that washes up on a distant shore.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 04, 2010, 01:50:24 am
 :)  Well you’re a survivor Harry.  “That which does not kill us, makes us strong.”  And I love the allegory about the boulder. 

You’ve set down some great ideas in this thread.  And “reaching for the stars” is part of the human spirit.  I think in our hearts we all know it is destined to happen.  Like the “Manifest Destiny” that the pioneers believed in, they all worked together to achieve a country that spanned from “sea to shining sea.” 

The difference between a dream and a reality is the ability to make others dream the same dream.  The more real the dream seems, the more detailed and exacting it is, then the more believers in that dream.

Movies, even more than books, can make a dream seem very real.  So where does this story of the Exodus Interplanetary Space Ship begin?  Do we see it being built first, and ending with it’s maiden voyage?  Or do we see it immediately in action, with flash backs of how it all came to be? 
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 04, 2010, 09:32:01 am
Now that is a good question. As a movie, I would show how the world is and what it's effects on people are. Between the scenes I would show what "WE" are doing to build the Exodus. It would begin with a more narrative section. Which gives way to answering the whys and the hows.. .
The Action would be a shot of space as the camera angle lowers and begins to show the Exodus completed and fleets of shuttles transporting the world's people to the station.
It would combined telling a story in a documentary format.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL0im9b6GgU

After, the narration stops. The real action begins. Real-time sort-a-speak.
The end of the movie will show us beginning the task of leaving the solar sysytem.

Exodus 2 Shows life in space. Finds the planet we call eden.
Exodus 3 We are in orbit around Eden and ready to send the landers/shuttles. Construction of Atlantis.
Living on a new world.


The reason for there being 3 movies about this? This thread alone would take atleast 7 hours to explain to someone.
We're looking to explain it all in roughly 8 1/2 hours.

Leonardo D.V..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RNfFg4-xNY


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2010, 08:32:59 am
 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yAWUGTZLbs



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2010, 08:45:21 am
A 17 part explanation about Atlantis and free masonary... Hmmmm
I wonder if its possible that America is the New Atlantis of the Earth and now its up to someone to recreate A true Atlantean civilisation amongst the stars.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: mdsungate on September 11, 2010, 10:23:00 am
 :)  Sounds like the movie is to be a three part trilogy then.   You’ve got lots of good material here.  I haven’t finished watching all the videos.  (It’s harder to go into the “scan” mode with video, LOL). 

QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
Hmmmm
I wonder if its possible that America is the New Atlantis of the Earth and now its up to someone to recreate A true Atlantean civilisation amongst the stars.

Well, remember that by some accounts Atlantis was a technologically advanced civilization with designs of global domination.  That might be a good fit for the America this country has become, LOL.  And according to Cayce, they strayed away from “The Law of One”, (which seems to have been a lot like monotheism), and used their technology for self gratification.  That might also fit our current trends, LOL.

They say that “There is nothing new under the sun” and I for one believe that we haven’t even reached the level of technology that Atlantis achieved.  There are rumors of a pyramid on the moon, and “The Face On Mars”.  The immediate assumption is that “alien” civilizations may have built them.  But I just think “we” (Atlantis) built them and don’t remember it.   

The entire surface of Mars is “oxidized”, and there are books written with speculations of how we could “teraform” Mars to be inhabitable.  I think “we’ve” already done that.  Atlantis, in my opinion, may have had outposts on the moon and had already “teraformed” Mars and made it inhabitable, and turned it into an Atlantean colony thousands of years ago.  But with the destruction of Atlantis the colony couldn’t sustain itself and had to return their now devastated home planet to try and rebuild it. 

It’s reasonable to assume that the Atlanteans had the same dreams and goals of the highest aspirations of the human spirit as we humans have today.  Have you seen any of my posts about the “zoomorphic gold bug” that Ian Sanderson first popularized?  If so you may remember that an aeronautical engineer was given a model of it and asked to analyze it without being told what it was.  His conclusion was that it was something we have yet to develop… a vehicle capable of leaving the atmosphere into space and also capable of re-entering it and landing! 

Check it out:

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/bbl_artefact.jpg)

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/bbl_plane.jpg)

Maybe we're trying to do what they already did, LOL.
 ;)
Mike


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2010, 03:51:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUq2bQkL1zo&feature=player_embedded

 ;)
Imagine a quantum computer that was able to utilize this technology for instructing pacific matter to assemble using radio frequencies, or magnetic feilds...



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 11, 2010, 03:54:29 pm
:)  Sounds like the movie is to be a three part trilogy then.   You’ve got lots of good material here.  I haven’t finished watching all the videos.  (It’s harder to go into the “scan” mode with video, LOL). 

QUOTE FROM HEREFORNOW:

Quote
Hmmmm
I wonder if its possible that America is the New Atlantis of the Earth and now its up to someone to recreate A true Atlantean civilisation amongst the stars.

Well, remember that by some accounts Atlantis was a technologically advanced civilization with designs of global domination.  That might be a good fit for the America this country has become, LOL.  And according to Cayce, they strayed away from “The Law of One”, (which seems to have been a lot like monotheism), and used their technology for self gratification.  That might also fit our current trends, LOL.

They say that “There is nothing new under the sun” and I for one believe that we haven’t even reached the level of technology that Atlantis achieved.  There are rumors of a pyramid on the moon, and “The Face On Mars”.  The immediate assumption is that “alien” civilizations may have built them.  But I just think “we” (Atlantis) built them and don’t remember it.  

The entire surface of Mars is “oxidized”, and there are books written with speculations of how we could “teraform” Mars to be inhabitable.  I think “we’ve” already done that.  Atlantis, in my opinion, may have had outposts on the moon and had already “teraformed” Mars and made it inhabitable, and turned it into an Atlantean colony thousands of years ago.  But with the destruction of Atlantis the colony couldn’t sustain itself and had to return their now devastated home planet to try and rebuild it. 

It’s reasonable to assume that the Atlanteans had the same dreams and goals of the highest aspirations of the human spirit as we humans have today.  Have you seen any of my posts about the “zoomorphic gold bug” that Ian Sanderson first popularized?  If so you may remember that an aeronautical engineer was given a model of it and asked to analyze it without being told what it was.  His conclusion was that it was something we have yet to develop… a vehicle capable of leaving the atmosphere into space and also capable of re-entering it and landing! 

Check it out:

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/bbl_artefact.jpg)

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x25/mdsungate/bbl_plane.jpg)

Maybe we're trying to do what they already did, LOL.
 ;)
Mike

They did this same experiment on the science channel. MUFON magazine conducted the experiment.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 02, 2010, 11:16:03 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9O-OmGUXNE

This bit of information tells us that a potential EDEN is out there and the potential for an EXODUS.
And the rise of a truely ATLANTEAN civilisation is equally PLAUSABLE.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 25, 2010, 05:01:37 pm
 :) I have been trying to find a way to make a computer generated image of the exodus assembling in space stage by stage. does anyone want the task of trying this for the sake of a documentary?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 26, 2010, 06:05:38 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJXSSYyIVqw&feature=player_embedded

This is the hard part. Finding planets that can sustain human beings is where we need to focas the energies to begin with.
Governments, are looking already and possible places are surfacing. Yet there is something very fundamental in the way we are looking that I feel is being over-looked here. 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 26, 2010, 07:56:17 pm
(http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/files/35292/Quantum%20propulsion.png)

Push on the electromagnetic fields in the quantum vacuum and you should get an equal and opposite force.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 26, 2010, 07:56:52 pm
Propultion is covered.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 27, 2010, 08:30:55 am
Quantum Manipulation of matter.

Finding ways to control matter at the level of single atoms and electrons fascinates many scientists and engineers because the ability to manipulate single charges and single magnetic moments (spins) may help researchers penetrate deep into the mysteries of quantum mechanics and modern solid-state physics. It may also allow development of new, highly sensitive magnetometers with nanometer resolution, single-spin transistors for coherent spintronics, and solid-state devices for quantum information processing.

Recently, a collaboration of experimentalists from the Kavli Institute of Nanosciences at Delft University of Technology and theorists at the U.S. Department of Energy's Ames Laboratory made a breakthrough in the area of controlling single quantum spins. The results were published in Science Express on Sept. 9. 2008
 The researchers developed and implemented a special kind of quantum control over a single quantum magnetic moment (spin) of an atomic-sized impurity in diamond. These impurities, called nitrogen-vacancy (or N-V) centers, have attracted much attention due to their unusual magnetic and optical properties. But their fragile quantum states are easily destroyed by even miniscule interactions with the outside world.
 By applying a specially designed sequence of high-precision electromagnetic pulses, the scientists were able to protect the arbitrary quantum state of a single spin, and they made the spin evolve as if it was completely decoupled from the outside world. In this way, scientists achieved a 25-fold increase in the lifetime of the quantum spin state at room temperature.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 02, 2010, 05:25:23 pm
Jennie McGrath
Superhero Member
******

                    

Research Warps into Hyperdrive Leonard David
Senior Space Writer
SPACE.com
Wed Mar 8, 11:00 AM ET



ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico – Take one part high-frequency gravitational wave generation, then add in a quantum vacuum field.

Now whip wildly via a gravitomagnetic force in a rotating superconductor while standing by for Alcubierre warp drive in higher dimensional space-time.


So you're looking for the latest in faster-than-light interstellar travel via traversable wormholes? That's one theme among many discussed at Space Technology & Applications International Forum (STAIF), a meeting held here Feb. 12-16 that brought together more than 600 experts to thrash out a range of space exploration issues.


Along with the run-of-the-mill space debates of the day, STAIF has also become a respected venue for researchers that dabble in the exotic, the thought-provoking novel, or the downright weird anomaly.


What's the attraction?


"We're hoping that nature has left a door open," said John Brandenburg of the Florida Space Institute in Orlando, Florida. "If we just find the right door ... we're trying every door knob. One of these days we'll find an open door."


Brandenburg gave a status report on his research into Gravity-Electro-Magnetism (GEM) unification theory. His motivation to poke around in this kind of arena is driven in part by maybe snagging a Nobel Prize, he said, but added: "We not only want to see this stuff…we want to ride in it."


For the most part, the search for breakthroughs in space power and propulsion is akin to walking along the beach, hoping to find that doubloon—a gold coin—gleaming in the Sun, Brandenburg told SPACE.com. "By the way," he said, "I live in Florida ... and that happens occasionally. So we're trying to get lucky."


Finding a pony in the pile


There is no doubt that anybody delving into warp drives and wormhole travel should expect a bit of a skeptical eye from others in certain scientific circles. Getting a hearing for the out-of-the-ordinary inspiration is tough.


"We've got to think about everything possible that there is to think about," said Eric Davis of the Austin, Texas-based Institute for Advanced Studies. "We have got to turn over every stone," he said, "and look into the future to find out what's waiting for us. What can physics do ... where should physics be going?"


To help explore that question, a forum is a legitimate place to present new thinking.


"Otherwise, we may never find it," said Dana Andrews, chief technical officer for Andrews Space in Seattle, Washington. He was an early advocate for having STAIF become a watering hole for challenging, non-traditional proposals.


The outlook that all physics has been discovered doesn't resonate well with Andrews. "I'm of the opinion that things like dark matter, dark energy, vacuum point energy…there might be a pony in that pile. And unless we invite people to think outside the box, we may never find the pony."


Blitzkrieg of equations


As example, a new exact solution of Albert Einstein's 90-year-old gravitational field equation was offered at STAIF by physicist Frank Felber, Vice President and co-founder of Starmark, Inc., based in San Diego, California.


And after you follow a blitzkrieg of his equations, Felber predicted that space travel near the speed of light is attainable—and not too far off in the future.


"I believe this new solution represents a major advance for space propulsion, in that it addresses the major engineering challenges of providing enormous energy to a payload quickly with negligible stresses," Felber later told SPACE.com.

Although all such projections are inherently risky, Felber explained, he figures that the first mission to accelerate a massive payload to "a good fraction" —meaning 10 percent or more—of the speed of light might be launched before the end of this century.

"The solution also offers immediate opportunities over the next couple of years to test Einstein's theory of gravity rigorously in the regime of relativistic speeds, where it has never before been tested," Felber noted. At less than one percent of the cost of space experiments -- like the recently completed Gravity Probe B mission—laboratory experiments can be conducted to demonstrate "antigravity" and test Einstein's theory, he said.

From rest to relativistic speeds

Felber's solution of Einstein's gravitational field equation is the first to calculate the changing gravitational field of a mass moving near the speed of light.

"I wasn't looking for antigravity or a means of propulsion ... and I wasn't looking ‘to push the boundaries,'" Felber said. Instead, he was looking for a way to relate inertial forces to the gravity of distant mass in the Universe.

"In order to do this, I figured I needed to know the gravitational field of relativistic mass, since most of the mass in the Universe is moving away from us at relativistic speeds," Felber explained.

His analysis found that a mass moving faster than 57.7 percent of the speed of light will gravitationally repel other masses lying within a narrow "antigravity beam" in front of it. The closer a mass gets to the speed of light, the stronger this antigravity beam becomes. Thus, the forward antigravity field of a suitably heavy and fast mass might be used to propel a payload from rest to relativistic speeds, Felber explained.

Room for surprises

A healthy dose of skepticism is key, said John Cole, formerly in the Advanced Space Transportation Project Office at the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama.

Cole worked over the past several years in the Propulsion Research Center at Marshall supporting several advanced propulsion concepts and experiments, and is now reassigned to support work for NASA's Crew Launch Vehicle.

Regarding new propulsion ideas, Cole added that there's room for surprises. He said that novel concepts presented at STAIF are the by-products of people wanting to help move humans beyond the Earth's environment out into the solar system.

"If we ever want to get to the stars…we can't do that with chemistry," Cole told SPACE.com.

Similarly, there are also drawbacks to nuclear systems, even fusion concepts, Cole said, for pushing humanity outward toward the stars. "If you are going to do that in a reasonable amount of time, something exotic has got to be found," he advised.

Not enough signal in the noise

Cole said that those at STAIF presenting exotic ideas are racking their brains…finding "little niches or peculiarities" in the hopes of insight and possible breakthrough. "But they are advocates…so it's hard not to drink your own bathwater."

Scientific rigor is important, Cole said, and repeatable experiments must rule the day.

"Right now, there's not enough signal in the noise to be convinced that there's anything there. One has to be strongly skeptical of all these kind of things," Cole said. "But you have got to be open-minded too. Maybe somebody will find something. But if they do, it has got to be solid."

No stranger to ground-breaking ideas is Bob Cassanova, Director of the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts (NIAC) in Atlanta, Georgia. NIAC is steadfast in its search for revolutionary aeronautics and space concepts that could dramatically impact how NASA develops and conducts its missions.

One new NIAC-supported concept, for instance, is building large, massive structures in space simply by using radio waves that create force fields to move materials and assemble them into various structures.

"It's important for people to get together and expose their ideas to the scientific community ... and get back credible feedback," Cassanova said. While he didn't experience any "ah-ha" revelatory moments at STAIF, brainstorming and open discussion is key, he said, to help flesh out a sound idea from speculation.

But Cassanova cautions: "Just because you can write an equation that describes something ... doesn't mean that such an equation describes the real physics that are going on."

Cassanova noted that a number of the STAIF-presented concepts have not been confirmed experimentally. In some cases, requisite power and massive pieces of equipment, as well as adequate funding are unavailable to researchers in order for them to carry out a cutting-edge experiment.

Oomph and might

NASA's own Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project was axed in late 2002.

That fact ties into the NASA of today that has slid back to heritage technologies, observed Davis of the Institute for Advanced Studies. The ability to put some "oomph and might" into expanding humankind's presence into the solar system has been "thoroughly destroyed by this heritage concept."

"We can pick ourselves up off the ground and start using advanced, high-efficiency, high-powered, high-speed propulsion," Davis said, "to make access to space much more effective and much easier to do."

Be it laser beam propulsion, gravity modification, extracting energy from a vacuum, or traversable worm holes and warp drives—these and other concepts deserve attention, Davis said.

"It's important," Davis concluded, "because the future is everything."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060308/sc_space/researchwarpsintohyperdrive

[ 03-14-2006, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Stacy Dohm ]

--------------------
"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 18, 2010, 03:37:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LKjJT7gh9s

 ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 21, 2011, 05:30:28 pm
A SONG THAT I LISTEN TO WHEN I THINK OF THE MISSION I CALL THE EXODUS-AE... First in many things, it's the final word in colonizing space and the miracle of other worlds. Generations of human-kind will one day inherit the heavens and the Earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhh3TSw8ac0


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 21, 2011, 05:34:29 pm
The hope for peace and real freedom. The dream of one day being independent of all this world is and soon WAS.... Life AE- After Earth.
 :) I see this vision, vividly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HtCquBppTc


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Red7Planet on January 22, 2011, 03:25:22 pm
Here's one for you, Herefornow:

Plasma Rocket Could Travel to Mars in 39 Days
October 6, 2009 by Lisa Zyga Ad Astra VASIMR

(http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/2009/adastravasimr.jpg)

In the VASIMR rocket, magnetic fields force the charged plasma out the back of the engine, producing thrust in the opposite direction. Image copyright: Ad Astra Rocket Company.

(PhysOrg.com) -- Last Wednesday, the Ad Astra Rocket Company tested what is currently the most powerful plasma rocket in the world. As the Webster, Texas, company announced, the VASIMR VX-200 engine ran at 201 kilowatts in a vacuum chamber, passing the 200-kilowatt mark for the first time. The test also marks the first time that a small-scale prototype of the company's VASIMR (Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket) rocket engine has been demonstrated at full power.

Ads by Google

Lotame Solutions - Get precise online advertising with Lotame's suite of ad solutions - www.lotame.com

 

"It's the most powerful plasma rocket in the world right now," says Franklin Chang-Diaz, former NASA astronaut and CEO of Ad Astra. The company has signed an agreement with NASA to test a 200-kilowatt VASIMR engine on the International Space Station (ISS) in 2013. The engine could provide periodic boosts to the ISS, which gradually drops in altitude due to atmospheric drag. ISS boosts are currently provided by spacecraft with conventional thrusters, which consume about 7.5 tonnes of propellant per year. By cutting this amount down to 0.3 tonnes, Chang-Diaz estimates that VASIMR could save NASA millions of dollars per year.

But Ad Astra has bigger plans for VASIMR, such as high-speed missions to Mars. A 10- to 20-megawatt VASIMR engine could propel human missions to Mars in just 39 days, whereas conventional rockets would take six months or more. The shorter the trip, the less time astronauts would be exposed to space radiation, which is a significant hurdle for Mars missions. VASIMR could also be adapted to handle the high payloads of robotic missions, though at slower speeds than lighter human missions.

Chang-Diaz has been working on the development of the VASIMR concept since 1979, before founding Ad Astra in 2005 to further develop the project. The technology uses radio waves to heat gases such as hydrogen, argon, and neon, creating hot plasma. Magnetic fields force the charged plasma out the back of the engine, producing thrust in the opposite direction. Due to the high velocity that this method achieves, less fuel is required than in conventional engines. In addition, VASIMR has no physical electrodes in contact with the plasma, prolonging the engine's lifetime and enabling a higher power density than in other designs.

More information: www.AdAstraRocket.com

http://www.physorg.com/news174031552.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 23, 2011, 11:55:17 am
I like the idea of a plasma engine... Thank you for this idea, because I would consider this for the landers and exploration vehicals.
As for the Exodus Station, I am looking toward palsed laser propulsion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8yJd_BILZc


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 27, 2011, 05:56:14 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Y363-gPX8

 :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqplP-E8Dvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cu4qzDVjGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u_jyahPSVs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hktVF-sidM






Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 27, 2011, 06:21:50 pm
Dig deep.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 04, 2011, 11:47:02 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56VgERTkO2g

 :-X


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Red7Planet on February 05, 2011, 01:08:08 am
Very impressive.  Of course, all this would be for naught unless a way to terraform Mars can be found, and a way to do it quickly.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 10, 2011, 07:15:12 am
Very impressive.  Of course, all this would be for naught unless a way to terraform Mars can be found, and a way to do it quickly.

But if we can use these technologies to prolong life....
A 40 year mission would be more practical. Mars is not large enough to sustain a thicker atmosphere. Adapting to a world like-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIzFHxV20QU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6_HooIJLNc

Would be more likely for a mission like this....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on March 09, 2011, 07:53:51 am
self-fulfilling prophecy..............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf6EGvl7nJo


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on May 24, 2011, 07:12:14 pm
 ;)

An antigravity challenge...

http://youtu.be/Hiu4W27EQ_I


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on July 19, 2011, 07:20:10 pm
 :-*


http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/05/protein-computing-bio-based-quantum.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on July 26, 2011, 06:03:09 pm
 :)

http://youtu.be/iXcfm10bvZo

http://youtu.be/I9fdHWs_xGM


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 10, 2011, 04:27:40 am
More?

http://youtu.be/UgHxfHrLvLc    :D


Chemistry lesson...
http://youtu.be/GgHKMJes_iQ


Discovering what energies can manipulate molecules is key in a self-assembly process... So what types of compounds can be produced, and by changing the properties of atoms, what new materials can be made?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 16, 2012, 08:10:11 pm
 :) To begin this challenge, we must consider a way to entice the world to want working in space.
One idea that comes to mind for me, is mining asteroids.
Allow me a moment to show you why I consider this.

(http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/antiope.jpg.pagespeed.ce.4wuEDSoRel.jpg)

Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

John S. Lewis, author of an asteroid mining book has said “…an asteroid with a diameter of one kilometer would have a mass of about two billion tons. One of these asteroids, according to Lewis, would contain 30 million tons of nickel, 1.5 million tons of metal cobalt and 7,500 tons of platinum. The platinum alone would have a value of more than $150 billion!”. The huge sums of money involved could one day induce mining companies to look towards the heavens. It may not happen until we have exhausted most of the Earth’s natural resources, but it will happen.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 18, 2012, 02:19:59 pm
The project begins with creating an electromagnet rail gun launch system that will place spectrometers, inferred imaging cameras and GPS recorders on and around the target asteroids......


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 19, 2012, 03:43:56 pm
Next, orbiters will deploy equipment that can turn the mined materials to rubble without explosion or heavy impact. Objective is to gain control of the objects positioning and orbit while mining robots remove material and return them to a ever revolving systems or orbiters that collect and return to Earth.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 19, 2012, 03:50:22 pm
The Exodus mission begins.....

Robotic machines controlled by a quantum computer will carry out making and installing all materials needed to complete the Exodus interplanetary space station.  More sophisticated equipment will be made here on Earth and inserted into space as landers that are returning mined materials are being reloaded and processed.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 20, 2012, 05:33:29 pm
The Exodus Mission



(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1629654428612&id=b574512e493439fec815a211d8b645c7&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nanotech-now.com%2fimages%2fbuckyball1-large.gif)


Ok You take this and combined it with this:

(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1622629751747&id=14d3170377b127e367a37ae2eec4bd31&url=http%3a%2f%2fi200.photobucket.com%2falbums%2faa41%2fcomedian_04%2ffunnyandother%2fDeathStar.jpg)


(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1617316815464&id=5a19c8ca4dfdcd083e7ba1a703afc599&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.listoid.com%2fimage%2f140%2flist_2_140_20101210_032153_525.jpg)

These deploy for recon and spectrograph.


And you have a space station that is interplanetary, that launches orbiters, Orbiters to location, and landers touching down.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 24, 2012, 01:07:59 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W4e7ZE0Nv0&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZwzNTc8SfU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzFTXYJ2J1I&feature=player_embedded

http://sciencestage.com/v/7248/a-quantum-computer-can-determine-who-wins-a-game-faster-than-a-classical-comp-.html

  :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 24, 2012, 09:40:44 pm
 :D Now is anyone asking why I am sharing how a quantum computer works?

Well, a quantum computer is what it may take to execute operations, assembly, and logistic control of materials.
Finding ways to control matter at the level of single atoms and electrons fascinates many scientists and engineers because the ability to manipulate single charges and single magnetic moments (spins) may help researchers penetrate deep into the mysteries of quantum mechanics and modern solid-state physics. It may also allow development of new, highly sensitive magnetometers with nanometer resolution, single-spin transistors for coherent spintronics, and solid-state devices for quantum information processing.

By applying a specially designed sequence of high-precision electromagnetic pulses, the scientists were able to protect the arbitrary quantum state of a single spin, and they made the spin evolve as if it was completely decoupled from the outside world. In this way, scientists achieved a 25-fold increase in the lifetime of the quantum spin state at room temperature. This is the first demonstration of a universal dynamical decoupling realized on a single solid state quantum spin.

Here is a link I found that explains how "IT"S BEEN DONE".....
http://spin.phys.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/conference/QuantumDynamics2008/


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 24, 2012, 09:57:15 pm
 :)       
Warp Drive

(http://aerorocket.com/WarpMetrics/WarpDrive1.gif)
(http://aerorocket.com/WarpMetrics/warp_analysis.gif)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 24, 2012, 10:05:45 pm
(http://aerorocket.com/WarpMetrics/WarpMetric_1.gif)

(http://www.warpdrivetheory.org/images/warpdriveTheoryhdr.jpg)

http://www.warpdrivetheory.org/photonwd/photonwarpdrive.html


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 24, 2012, 10:11:20 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wswhFnYQdRs&feature=player_embedded

 :D




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 01:07:02 pm
Going back to the subject of mining asteroids. Regarding the materials themselves, Amun's total tonnage breaks down into many different metals. The most abundant of these are iron and nickel, which alone would have a market value of about $8 trillion. (Keep in mind that a trillion is a million times a million.) Supplies of another metal, cobalt, on Amun would be worth perhaps $6 trillion. Then there are rarer metals such as platinum, iridium, osmium, and palladium, which together would add another $6 trillion to the investors' profits. The nonmetals, including carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, phosphorus, oxygen, hydrogen, and gallium, would be worth at least $2 trillion. If humans mined all of Amun, therefore (which would take many years), the gross profits would come to at least $22 trillion. It is difficult to estimate the upfront costs of such a mining operation. But even if they were as high as $1 trillion, the net profits would still be $21 trillion. Clearly, asteroid mining will be an extremely profitable

Read more: http://www.scienceclarified.com/scitech/Comets-and-Asteroids/How-Humans-Will-Mine-Asteroids-and-Comets.html#ixzz1nW1s7Euh


Image mining and coming across things like these to study.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430308_360430387323353_100000691839128_72400208_1277242320_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 01:11:41 pm
As planetary scientist John S. Lewis says in this excerpt from his fascinating book Mining the Sky , the asteroid belt contains enough iron to construct an enormous space city.

    We have enough asteroidal iron [in the asteroid belt] to make a metal sphere . . . 550 miles in diameter. Hollowed out into rooms with iron walls, like a gigantic city, it would make a spherical space structure over . . . 1,200 miles in diameter. . . . With a nine-foot ceiling, we could provide each family with a floor area of 3,000 square feet for private residential use and still set aside 3,000 square feet of public space per family. This artificial world would contain enough room to accommodate more than ten quadrillion [a million times a billion] people. Very simply, that is a million times the ultimate population capacity of Earth.

It is fair to ask why the inhabitants of such colonies, as well as people still living on Earth, would choose to get metals, minerals, and other resources from asteroids and comets rather than from larger cosmic bodies. Why not mine the Moon first, for example, or perhaps the planet Mars? After all, the Moon and Mars are both far larger than all of the asteroids put together, and both are closer to Earth than most of the asteroids and comets (the NEAs being an obvious exception).

First, whether they live on Earth or in space cities, people will naturally want to obtain cosmic resources as easily and cheaply as possible. The fact is that mining the asteroids will be far easier and more economical than mining a large body like the Moon. The Moon's surface gravity is about one-sixth that of Earth, which is strong enough to require a good deal of fuel to land miners and their equipment on its surface. More importantly, getting the processed metals and minerals off the Moon's surface would take even larger amounts of fuel. An added problem is that most of the valuable metals and minerals on the Moon are spread out over thousands of square miles and bound up inside mixtures of rock and dirt, many lying deep underground; it would require a lot of exploration, as well as strenuous and expensive digging and processing, to free them. So robotic mining is the key to all the possibilities that can be created.

The genius and imagination of quantum computing and man/woman, appears to be the only way to accomplish such a goal and we already have those resources to begin this task.
The logical, and responsible thing at this is point is to choose between what is given. And what we can give....
To date mankind has demonstrated it's ability to destroy very efficiently, and wastefully. Packaging for food and beverage alone with eventually poison the ground and water over hundreds and thousands of years. Famine and natural disasters, disease, war, and tyranny are the things we support in doing nothing. The Exodus is an idea that I am offering to give us a reason to go on. Humanity to this point is wasting itself away to nothing so that a few individuals can reap all that they have sown. Outshine the weak as they see it. However the truth is a matter of your own perception and to be freer from the humanity that we are. I must remind myself that things aren't important. What matters is surviving and becoming more as a species/beings and less destructive to ourselves. Knowledge is the path, to learning ways to live longer and healthier. 800 to 900 years maybe? Ok. I'll want it. Learning that a pattern may exist in the dynamics of how earth-like worlds are produced in chains very can very from the way the gravities and other forces behave within a galaxy. Could this actually hold some weight? ok. I would like to know.
My point is, at the moment like so many others. I imagine this in all my being. I will awaken to my 7 to 3:30 job. Come home and go threw the bills. Take something for a headache, with a nice cup of tea.

However, at this moment. I have already taken a step in the right direction I believe. I offered a vision of something more.
A thing of imagination? Yes.
Could we actually do it?  : ) 
That's for you to decide.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 02:05:48 pm
 :-X


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 02:25:43 pm
[

(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/374335_10150404543191505_529931504_8130661_1386274067_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 02:38:57 pm
 ;D

(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s320x320/422690_149724561814877_100003320011012_192936_1539431682_n.jpg)

I'll take this...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 26, 2012, 02:48:46 pm
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/423422_10150717400395030_750295029_11908798_1891355848_n.jpg)

The objective is simple... The exodus from this humanity to a wiser, and more compassionate one.

Dennis Jakupovich's Photos
WELCOME TO THE FUTURE


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on March 18, 2012, 05:11:02 am
Question:
How can we survive even longer durations, without bone and muscle loss from zero gravity?

Hypothesis:
The size of an Exodus space station is massive enough to produce a small amount of gravity on it's own.
Plus the forces applied in the rotation. For fitness, I dreamed up something called V-it.

Anyone familiar with laser tag?
Virtual Reality?
Padded obstacle courses?

Well, this will combined all of these elements and then some.
You are the game. More on this later.





Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on July 03, 2012, 08:19:41 am
The V-it fitness program is a key element to entertainment, and fitness. Imagine a special pair of glasses designed to show you a CG world. Ice and snow, or lava and falling stars. An alien landscape that resembles the padded obstacles that are all around you in a huge arena... The soft ware detects you in the arena and creates all the CG effects you see and experience. 2-10 man teams compete for a last man standing victory in a laser tag match. 10-10 minute rounds of pure carnage.
 ;D
Other V-it activities will employ the same concept of the virtual CG mapping, that will enable two martial artists for example to fight with all their own natural abilities without contact.
Separated, they can see each other as the avatars they chose to appear as and fight to the death without ever laying their hands on each other.
Other ideas like; Remember Star Wars pod racing? Same idea but you must control the simulator pod you are seated on.
V-it here on Earth would be alot of fun. However this idea for the Exodus is a must for long durations in space.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 26, 2012, 01:37:30 pm
Now, way earlier on, I touched on how we could launch satellites without liquid propellents..
Using Electromagnetic Rail gun technology, We can launch an array of different things into space.

Have a look at this link and decide if it can be done or not...
http://youtu.be/1yD_FkEsyzcesamultimedia.esa.int/docs/gsp/completed/comp_i_03_N02.pdf


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 26, 2012, 01:48:36 pm
http://33011.activeboard.com/t7833387/scientists-hope-rail-gun-could-launch-satellites/


 :D

Now where would be the ideal location globally to maximize effectiveness?

(http://foreclosurenv.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/800px-world_map_with_equator.jpg)

See any mountain ranges running through the areas along the Equator?  ;)
I see hundreds of possible places....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 26, 2012, 02:17:09 pm
 :)  As for the V-it....

http://youtu.be/yDuGsm_b9zc

We have the technology now....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on August 27, 2012, 12:19:58 am
Good work, friend! It is a pity that funding has not yet caught up with your innovations!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 28, 2012, 03:51:19 am
True, but here's my poor man patent.. ; )



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on August 29, 2012, 01:00:28 am
Well, maybe some rich investor will read this and fund your vision!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2012, 06:19:27 am
 :) I can dream... However if an inventor wants to Extreme test a quantum computer... I have just the goal for it.
As for funding, they can't be government affiliated.... Big no-no to this plan.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2012, 06:25:51 am
Well, maybe some rich investor will read this and fund your vision!

I would be happy to have just one of the things posted in this thread accomplished...
Ecspecially mining Asteroids and V-it..


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on August 30, 2012, 01:08:14 am
Be nice if you got som pay for it, though, wouldn't it?  ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2012, 07:46:12 pm
 :) Well,,,, When I'm approached with an offer...
I'll need to decide then. Until then, they will just steal all of this and do what they want anyways.
Of course i can prove it was something I dreamed up years before blogging was popular... ; )
Hand written...


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 30, 2012, 08:08:22 pm
One thing I want to Express with the whole idea is;

If it was to all become a trilogy of movies, and/or book.
There is no battle seen, no monsters accept those we parted with.
Complete optimism and good ideas throughout all of it.

I dream about the makers of Star War, Star trek, and the Avatar being willing to sit and discuss very well thought out ideas about what would be the most effective and best way to do everything.
Then, apply as much Science fact to every concept, and visual artists make it happen in CG, and reality.
I'm looking for a self-fulfilling prophecy to occur out of it. Mankind working as one to accomplish the final product for centuries to come and growing out of it's infancy once and for all.

Give the world a look at it's full potential that we can have now if we want it.
For that, I would not need money... I just want people to know that someone in our generation did try and does care for humanity.

The goal isn't just visiting the stars. The goal is freeing the mind from the stresses of how this life is lived now and easing with what we can do if people were willing to volunteer themselves to accomplish the impossible. And make it possible... Manifesting a new age of clarity, and love.

A satisfaction that not even all the wealth on Earth can buy....



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on August 31, 2012, 12:57:05 am
Volunteer your services to Richard Branson as a space consultsnt!   ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 31, 2012, 01:39:42 pm
I'm sure he would fund some of it.
Yet, I'm looking to see someone with a Desire to go forward.
Money is not the objective or motivation.
Growing into more then we are because we are more.
 ;D Don't take me wrong...

Everyone on the planet stands to live better if....
Private Enterprise and philosophical came together.
I have yet to see both in even a select few who would even dare such a thing.
But, it has happened and can happen. And should happen.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 31, 2012, 01:53:57 pm
I mean come on man....
Is it really NOT worth trying to see what we can really do?

If you are saying that it's too expensive, then it shows how self-defeating your thinking might be.
We might actually be able to do whatever it takes to do anything.

However, in your comfort zone. The last thing on your mind is everyone else.
But then our mothers who birthed us were uncomfortable for hours while in labor.
To be born, is to be new to all that we become aware of.
Then we spend our lives figuring out how to interact with the ideas of others and go with the flow.
And Crazy is thinking outside the box for a moment to get a better look at the BIG picture here.
An arrow of time, flying into???

And now is where you decide.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on September 01, 2012, 02:30:58 am
Well, personally I thnk you shoukld send some of this stuff off to Branson, worse he can do is say no, right?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 01, 2012, 01:05:00 pm
 :) True that. Thank you.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on September 02, 2012, 12:52:34 am
You're welcome!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 07, 2012, 04:38:16 pm
http://youtu.be/7fcfydIhw4I   (http://youtu.be/7fcfydIhw4I) :D   

For the sake of an experiment, I am posting this video to show that we can do all of what I'm saying now.
Again, we shouldn't need permission or money. We need materials, a plan and an action.




http://youtu.be/0YLhCuyE1rA

http://youtu.be/9ScAHXN_kAY
                                                                                                                                           


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil on September 08, 2012, 02:49:01 am
Well, I would think we'd need a little money. How ese can you get this off the ground without it?  :D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 22, 2012, 02:07:24 pm
That's why it isn't going to happen... For now.
Again, it's a conscious decision made by the people, (everyone) to contribute what they can for the good of everything.
Energy is produced by action. It's why I keep posting ideas about this here.  ;)




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 24, 2012, 04:23:47 pm
Besides, Even if an investor were to throw a few spare Billions at this...
There is holes and flaws in all invention.
How is that individual going to handle a small chance of catastrophic failure?
If it was just done because we need to do this one thing, and not place price over value.
Failure, is learning how to do it right the next time and doing it again.
Yet in the hands of men driven by money, this could be the final word in weapons.
In the hands of men driven by a passion for experience and exploration. This is the final word in space travel for hundreds of years.

It is the stuff of imagination, and fact.
With new ideas.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 26, 2012, 09:11:02 am
The most important thing to remember in all of what I'm posting about this is;   Life is precious.
I want people to be able to discover their real potentials without the burden of financial issues or limitations being the only thing between a better world or more pointless suffering.
Quantum Manipulation of all matter is how all these other things can be accomplished....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 30, 2012, 04:21:51 am
 ;D

 Breaking development;
A 19 year old girl has patented what may one day become a very powerful star drive, one that will take the human race to other solar systems! The best part about it; her device works by means of quantum mechanics and the casimir effect, req
uiring no fuel for propulsion!
Here's a quick explanation
http://digitaljournal.com/article/325785

Mustafa's Space Drive: An Egyptian Student's Quantum Physics Invention
http://www.fastcompany.com/1837966/mustafas-space-drive-egyptian-students-quantum-physics-invention

Here's an article about how quantum theory is changing the perception of scientists.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htm


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 30, 2012, 04:47:32 pm
As my case is being stated about the NOW.
 :)

We can do everything I'm talking about.
Even finding a planet we can name Eden.
 ::)
Why do we continue playing this game of control with resources and monetary wealth?
Why are we allowing our kids to go into far off lands to destroy one another?
I could go on about the truth that is happening around us right now. However, it's the distraction they need to keep doing it.
We can step up right now, and commit to ideas we all agree on and do whatsoever it takes in constructive and creative ways.
We are more intelligent then this by now and I know for a fact that our dreams can be made very real and that happiness and unity can be achieved without spending their money.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 30, 2012, 05:02:30 pm
 :)

These are links that can show, we know how to:

http://lukin.physics.harvard.edu/research.htm

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Physicists_Cross_Hurdle_In_Quantum_Manipulation_Of_Matter_999.html

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/casimir.html


12 Particles Of Matter & 4 forces of Nature.
Our leap is the quantum manipulation of matter and force.




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 02, 2012, 05:09:24 pm
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/430772_2865860120488_260187871_n.jpg)




   

    harry.erie@facebook.com

onwithforever@yahoo.com


(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/nobeastsofierce/nobeastsofierce1211/nobeastsofierce121100001/16307425-graphene-buckyball-model--3d-illustration.jpg)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 04, 2012, 11:34:18 am
 :) I invite the onslaught... pull out the M134 and open fire on these ideas.
Looking for holes to fill will lead to greater understanding.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 04, 2012, 02:38:43 pm
http://youtu.be/aMZDYF_yi3Y                                                                8)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 04, 2012, 04:35:44 pm
 :)
http://science.howstuffworks.com/asteroid-mining1.htm

Scientists think asteroids are leftover material from the early formation of the solar system or debris from the destruction of a planet. There are tens of thousands of asteroids circling the sun. Most are grouped inside the asteroid belt, between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. Some asteroids that stray from this orbit, though, flying close to Earth on occasion -- you've probably heard about the possibility of these asteroids smashing into Earth in the future, as in the movie "Armageddon."

Most asteroids fit into three basic categories:

    C-type - More than 75 percent of known asteroids fit into this category. The composition of C-type asteroids is similar to that of the sun without the hydrogen, helium and other volatiles.
    S-type - About 17 percent of asteroids are this type. These contain deposits of nickel, iron and magnesium.
    M-type - A small number of asteroids are this type, and they contain nickel and iron.

Even without a manned mission to do a full-scale study of an asteroid, scientists know a lot about what asteroids contain. Astronomers use telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid's surface, to find out what might be there. In addition to iron, nickel and magnesium, scientists think water, oxygen, gold and platinum also exist on some asteroids.

Water interests space explorers most because it could help keep a space colony alive. Without water, there is really no way to move forward with human exploration of space. Water could also be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen to form rocket engine propellant. The metal ore on the asteroids could be mined and used for building spacecraft and other structures for a space colony.

Corporations that might not be interested in exploring space for the adventure and science could be interested in the treasures that a space mining operation could send back to Earth. One NASA report estimates that the mineral wealth of the asteroids in the asteroid belt might exceed $100 billion for each of the six billion people on Earth. John S. Lewis, author of the space mining book Mining the Sky, has said that an asteroid with a diameter of one kilometer would have a mass of about two billion tons. There are perhaps one million asteroids of this size in the solar system. One of these asteroids, according to Lewis, would contain 30 million tons of nickel, 1.5 million tons of metal cobalt and 7,500 tons of platinum. The platinum alone would have a value of more than $150 billion!

Asteroids have amazing potential for industry. But what will it take to land on an asteroid, find these valuable materials, extract them and process them?
The conclusion for me is simple. Robotic mining...
We could use 3 stage launch vehicles that could transport a small army of robotic miners to the NEO (near Earth Objects) and mine the heck out of them..
This one step in the grand plan would fund all space exploration and Earth restoration projects for Decades and longer. The problem is; Getting the funding needed to build the robotic miners and launch vehicals, the power plant and electromagnetic rail gun launch systems and quantum computer. :)



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 05, 2012, 05:55:54 pm
Wanna see an example of the interest level in space exploration?  lol
   


Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.
Total signatures: 1,428
http://news.yahoo.com/11-ridiculous-white-house-petitions-125600140.html


Now, who would want a huge space station without it being used for selfishness and destruction?
H.D.R


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 11, 2012, 07:31:30 pm
 :D I am now attempting to contact Richard Branson, as suggested...
For real.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 11, 2012, 07:38:00 pm
Well, I would think we'd need a little money. How ese can you get this off the ground without it?  :D

 :D   Question. Are you working for Richard Branson?
I wish to contact him as you suggested.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on December 13, 2012, 01:20:56 pm
So did you hear from Branson or his people yet, Herefornow?
I emailed the Governor of New York once and have been on his email list ever since, and I'm not even a New Yorker!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 13, 2012, 05:45:39 pm
 :) So far, No such luck. However...
I'm gleaning other possibilities.

Thank you Rachel. It's nice to hear some feed back.
I highly encourage any guests to feel free express your opinions or ideas here....
Registering in Atlantis online is easy..




Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 13, 2012, 06:24:25 pm
So did you hear from Branson or his people yet, Herefornow?
I emailed the Governor of New York once and have been on his email list ever since, and I'm not even a New Yorker!

By chance do you know of any other links that might possibly be more user friendly the Virgin Web sight?
He's not easy to get a hold of.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 26, 2012, 11:56:02 am
Before anything ever happens to a lot of the information here in this thread. I have taken the liberty of printing it onto paper..
eventually, I may just place in into a time capsule.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Elric on December 27, 2012, 01:53:22 am
It might also be shaped into a decent book, Herefornow, you might want to give that some thought as well.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 27, 2012, 07:47:02 am
 :D The book idea is mentioned in this. Definitely being considered. Naturally, I will mention it's presence here in Atlantis Online as well.
I also share with friends on face book. Get input from them.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on December 27, 2012, 09:11:31 pm
You can contact Branson on facebook, twitter and online, Herefornow, here are a bunch of links that should help you:

http://richardbransonfan.com/contact/index.html

https://twitter.com/richardbranson

https://www.facebook.com/RichardBranson

Good luck!

Rachel


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 28, 2012, 05:30:09 am
<3  Thanks Rachel


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 06, 2013, 09:27:25 am
Richard has not responded..

So, I'm just going to have to keep going.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 06, 2013, 10:18:41 pm
Bummer!  Well, don't give up, shape it all into a book and try and get it published.
In the creative writing section at the bottom of the forum, I put some stuff in there about self-publishing. Check it out!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 07, 2013, 11:08:39 am
I will do that and thank you Rachel for the support in this... I appreciate it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 10, 2013, 03:53:15 am
Next investment, Dragon software and printer ink...  :)

Then; attempt a contact with none other then James Cameron.
He and some others are making a company called Planetary Resources and they plan to privately fund mining asteroids. Research it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 12, 2013, 02:23:37 am
Good luck with James Cameron!  I heard he can be kind of crabby sometimes.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 14, 2013, 04:50:01 pm
I was browsing the net to see if there was anything on an Exodus that involved space travel......
 :o I found something that was interesting in my research.


Quote
Created By DR. AHEE ILOTEN AND CAPT. ALEXANDER SKY, to bring awareness to the issue of public space travel, The Galactic Exodus Project will organize and manage all the necessary elements to accomplish our goals. We are a multigenerational mission into the stars.
To long have we wandered awake, but in a dream.
We understand that our days are numbered, and that the earth will be destroyed when the sun's cycle goes supernova. With the news of $10 Trillion being “lost” in 2010 by the Federal Reserve, our researchers followed the money trail offshore and discovered that this led to a conglomerate of private corporate industries working together under what we are calling “The Secret Space Program”. The richest families controlling these private industries are attempting to be the first ones into space to colonize the new world and seed their domination over it. Will these select few be the only ones to seed the universe with their DNA?

What is the mission?

Our mission is to subvert the plans of the top 1%.
We will create our own gene pool made from the most creative, loving, and excellent personality types. You may be one of us already. If you are found through testing and training to be the most genetically suited to multi generational, long term, migration, you can come with us. WE WILL COLONIZE A PLANET WITH VALUES OF LOVE, CREATIVITY, COMMUNICATION, BEAUTY, COMPASSION, SUSTAINABILITY, HEALTH, AND KINDNESS.

What can I do to help?

Pass this on to everyone who can help us! The Galactic Exodus Project, is a multi-generational movement to foster self-sustainable culture focused on living with, and caring for this earth while we prepare for the exodus into space to ultimately colonize 2nd Earth.
Join us and help spread the word. Play "OCCUPY LOVE" at rallies, meetings, and protests.

How can galactic exodus be
possible?

We have stolen the technology from the government and plan to make our own ship, support structure, and exit plan. You are the missing piece to our puzzle. Only you can change the world, only you can make this dream a reality, and only together can we be as one.

Why should we risk our lives and listen to your music?

We have come out into the open for a short time, risking everything, risking our lives to ask you for your help. We are the children of the revolution. A revolution of access to information, a revolution of truth, and a spiritual revolution of love. The time is now, the time is go.

Will your dna be the pinnacle of earthly evolution?

We are looking to train and cultivate individuals and families of quality, for the most exciting adventure of all time. All persons of sound mind, and un-mutated DNA may apply.

If you come with us, it will mean leaving the earth forever. By opting in, you submit to training and testing for you, and your children. If chosen for exodus, a multi generational agreement will be signed. You and your future offspring will be bound to complete the migration and all the sub missions of Project Galactic Exodus.

It is possible, that you would be lucky enough to depart this doomed world, and seed the universe with hope, love, and humanity.

We thank you for your interest and your support.

Capt. Alexander Sky
Commanding officer G.E.P.

Dr. Ahee Iloten R.M.
Director of Alien Technologies

If you have interest in joining our movement, please friend us on FACEBOOK, find our songs on CDBABY and BANDCAMP, visit our blog at theroguemechanica@blogspot.com, BUY OUR MUSIC, and come to a live show!


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1740821/pg1


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 15, 2013, 01:04:12 am
Actually, from what I heard, the sun won't be going supernova for millions of years, and humanity will be extinct by then, most likely. In fact, the currency system will probably collapse long before then and all that money the rich have will be worth nothing.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 15, 2013, 01:31:04 pm
That is one of the biggest points behind accomplishing all of this....
If we all worked together to make the impossible happen, it can.
A man or woman's worth isn't determined by how much money they have.
It's about what they did to contribute something for the good of all.

Aboard the Exodus, or even on the surface of Eden.
No money means anything. It's about being a part of history and the part you did in creating tomarrow, today.
Philosophically speaking.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 16, 2013, 07:09:46 am
To begin with, I thought of a Buckyball design that could make an awesomely strong self-assembling frame work for a death star sized space station. Now because the plan requires the frame to be as internally stable as the external frame work I would need a design that offers the best of both worlds.

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/120CellGraph_700.gif)

hyperdodecahedron

Animated

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/cell120.gif)

 ;) At 120 dodecahedra, with 3 to an edge, and 720 pentagons. The 120-cell has 600 vertices and 1200 edges. It is one of the six regular polychora. One can only guess at the structural strength.




The dual of 120 cells is a 600 cell design:
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/600CellGraph_700.gif)
Animated

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/cell600.gif)

 It is composed of 600 tetrahedra, with 5 to an edge. The 600-cell has 120 vertices and 720 edges.

Note the natural spherical shape that this geometry creates.


This was taken from page 12 of this thread... This is an over all look of how I see the Exodus Space station being designed.
From a 3-d CG model into a modulation of RF and EM frequencies to manipulate the sub atomic structure of matter and more or less telling it to self assemble into this moon sized habitation in space.

Well in a nut shell, it's about some very smart people coming together in secret and activating a quantum computer that they use to manipulate matter... By instructing atoms to self-assemble, the Exodus space station. After it's completion, this very same group does the impossible by committing the single greatest act of kindness ever..... They mine asteroids to generate enough money to free the world's people of all debt, hunger war and disease. More began to enlist and more discoveries lead to the eventual Exodus from Earth. They found an Earth like planet that they named Eden.
There are no fight scenes or battles... Not one shot was fired. We did what was needed to be done and not one of the world's most elite even knew what happened until it did....
It was like a conspiracy carried out by the 99% lol
In the book, I am writing it Backwards.... We are on Eden and I'm showing how all the events lead up to the Exodus AD, the Eden project on Earth, and the construction of Atlantis Prime on the planet Eden...
Bet I will be called a Free Mason? NO... I'm just free minded.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Lisa Wolfe on January 16, 2013, 10:45:21 pm
This is a cool image:

(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/gifs/cell600.gif)

You have to love  GIFs!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 17, 2013, 08:01:27 am
 :) I thought so too.... Thank you.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 17, 2013, 07:50:36 pm
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/424058_10200215485538172_440653309_n.jpg)
 ;) Metallic design....

Support structure model.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 19, 2013, 12:24:21 pm
 :) As for how this could be done, slight advances can be made to 3D printing techniques that could work in atomic assembly.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 19, 2013, 12:28:50 pm
http://youtu.be/-K9q1KQqc9o                     :P


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 19, 2013, 02:51:06 pm
 ;D   Now, for more conformation. Please look at this video and tell me if you think this idea can be done today.

http://youtu.be/iLndYWw5_y8   

This youtube video is remarkable and shows the method in which I speak of....
The materials needed will come from Asteroids.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 21, 2013, 01:55:31 am
Quote
A man or woman's worth isn't determined by how much money they have.
It's about what they did to contribute something for the good of all.

It isn't determined by that, but this society will try and make you think that, it's all about money!  Ours is a sick society.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 24, 2013, 02:04:07 pm
 :)   This is true Rachel, to an extent. Yet, loving yourself and all life is up to us.... Not everyone else. It's all about a choice.
We can conform, or rise above our programming because ours is a free will. Collective consciousness, can be manipulated by a "Virus", of free thought and free form.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 24, 2013, 02:27:01 pm
In the Death Star petition rebuffed, one point that can be made validly is that all the materials needed are in asteroids and if they can be refined for use. They could even shape something like Sirius, the largest known asteroid. Into a giant space station/artificial moon/refining plant/ect. ect. ect.
 We can use whats there if the consistency of irons ,nickel, and cobalt are present.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 26, 2013, 04:55:59 pm
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/c15.0.403.403/p403x403/481177_323274724445388_1369244713_n.png)


These carbon nano-tubes, are what, and where the construction process all begins....



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 26, 2013, 07:37:59 pm
Did you see this, Harry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rK-LKLxaieo#t=0s


http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/magazine/15-12/st_xwing


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 26, 2013, 07:51:43 pm
 ;D Yes!   But, I would have so love it more if they used and electro-magnetic rail launch and put it in orbit.
Jus sayin. Great stuff though.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 30, 2013, 12:56:50 pm
http://scitechdaily.com/lcls-x-ray-laser-captures-electron-dance/


I remember that in this thread, I mentioned artificial photosynthesis. Now part of why we haven't seen it mastered as of yet, is that until now we didn't understand the process.
 

Inside link:
Using the LCLS X-ray laser, researchers have demonstrated the ability to manipulate and study ultrafast energy transfers using a technique called X-ray absorption spectroscopy.

The way electrons move within and between molecules, transferring energy as they go, plays an important role in many chemical and biological processes, such as the conversion of sunlight to energy in photosynthesis and solar cells. But the fastest steps in this energy transfer have eluded detection.


(http://scitechdaily.com/images/molecular-model-representing-ferreous-bipyridine.jpg)

This molecular model represents ferreous bipyridine, which contains a central iron atom (shown in cyan). Nitrogen atoms are shown in dark blue, carbon atoms in green, and hydrogen atoms in gray. Credit: The Journal of Physical Chemistry A


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 30, 2013, 01:04:38 pm
Another philosophically written rant to offer thought:


Published on my facebook status  ::)

While one war after another begins to unveil, people who are not in the circles of these elites are turning there eyes to space. The hard thing is not going to the stars.
It's committing to a lasting peace among all the world's people who are not players in the game that dictate how we live presently. We know that eventually these mindless puppets who serve only the wealthiest men and women on the planet are eventually going to self-destruct.

Why must the rest of us follow, knowing this?
We don't have to fight with them or voice our opinions to them.
We must come together and vote on ideas for a change. Not Men, nor beast. Vote on direction, setting goals both realistic and prioritized to attain the long term.
This policy by where government is in control of how we do everything is the first thing that we must defy.

We could do what we wanted if we could organize. The choice is yours.
Be a conspiracy to solve the issues, and forget the conspiracies they use to preoccupy
our energies with. Ultimately, this will work for a number of good reasons. Yet the message is clear, "If we want something done right, we're going to have to do it ourselves".... With that said let us petition this notion right here, right now. Like and share if you agree. Harry~

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c48.0.403.403/p403x403/14933_326654900784598_1150813776_n.jpg)

https://www.facebook.com/harry.erie


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 30, 2013, 01:17:21 pm
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/528829_10200256129834254_1859239320_n.jpg)

Asteroid Recon/spectrometry android idea.....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 30, 2013, 07:56:59 pm
http://youtu.be/uLvjZ_TTrDM                 
 ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 30, 2013, 08:16:14 pm
;D Yes!   But, I would have so love it more if they used and electro-magnetic rail launch and put it in orbit.
Jus sayin. Great stuff though.


So what us electro-magnetic rail launch, does it exist or is it just thereoretical?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on January 30, 2013, 08:20:25 pm
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/02/railguns-for-space-launch.html                          

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2103/2246340137_a82835bd4b.jpg?v=0)

exists and is able to do the job quite well...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrHs/R6oJVHst8eI/AAAAAAAAABM/wF_wgkS-kwg/s1600-h/railgun2.JPG)
2150 kg is around or shy of 3,000 lbs....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 01, 2013, 09:24:08 pm
For details about the technology, I found some good links that can explain how it works...
For me, it's a detail that makes the goal behind a book more believable.. Don't you agree?
For the launching:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/21/us-navys-electromagnetic-aircraft-launch-system-launches-first/
For propulsion in space:
http://www.mtjf.demon.co.uk/antigravp2.htm

And these don't have to be the only form of either that can be designed and used.

 



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 03, 2013, 07:41:57 pm
Initiate 3D Print;



 ;D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on February 09, 2013, 05:17:13 pm
 :)
Now for the sake of thought, we have covered the ideas that will go into an Exodus to space. From the innovation to scientific facts, some theory.
So many other things still remain in the air about how it is all going to go together. Suggestions welcome.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on March 30, 2013, 11:33:05 am
Material Science

 When crumpled, this "morphing" metal returned immediately and seamlessly to its original form. Shape recovery metals ("memory metals") are today emerging as a technology with applications for use in everything from eyeglass frames to spacecraft.



· Nitinol (a lightweight Nickel-Titanium alloy that is the "Cadillac" of memory metals) finds its history in late 1940s metallurgical work at Battelle- in studies that were contracted by Wright Patterson in the months immediately following the Roswell crash.
· A metals expert at Battelle during the time -Dr. Howard C. Cross- was leading a dual life secretly researching UFOs for government agencies while at the same time directing top-secret Titanium alloy studies. It was found that Cross "seeded" Titanium alloy studies to the US Navy Lab- where Nitinol was later "discovered."
· Titanium alloy was named as part of the composition of the Roswell memory metal according to General Arthur Exon, Wright's one-time Base Commander. Exon also referred to the material's unique "processing" and that the "reports" on the metal "were still around." Exon spoke of "chemical analysis, compression tests and flexing." These were the precise tests found to have been conducted on Titanium alloys in the Battelle report received though FOIA.
· General George Schulgen (who led Intelligence at the Pentagon at the time of the crash) issued a formerly secret memo -just weeks after Roswell- informing his officers that the saucers may be made with materials "of composite construction" that used "various combinations of metals" and that were fabricated by "unusual methods" to achieve "extreme lightweight." Schulgen's memo was written just one week prior to the issuance of the Battelle report!
· Major discrepancies in the "official" history of Nitinol were identified. Although Nitinol may not be the "actual" Roswell debris, its development and inspiration was found from material discovered crashed at Roswell in 1947.
· Citations to this 1949 Battelle report were found (as buried footnotes) within four military-sponsored studies. All of these studies related to shape-recovery or "memory metal" development. This includes a report authored by Dr. Fred Wang, the purported "co-inventor" of Nitinol in the 1960s at the US Navy Lab. Nitinol is comprised of Nickel and Titanium, and much of this 1949 report concerns itself with alloying these two metals. Wang was later discovered to have been involved in bizarre "mind over matter" experiments to see if Nitinol could be morphed using the mind's energy.

The Battelle study from 1949 was obtained through a FOIA request placed by Sarasota Herald Tribune reporter Billy Cox. Many of it pages are missing or are not numbered.


(http://ufos.homestead.com/metalbend.jpg)

http://ufocon.blogspot.ca/2009/08/scientist-admits-to-study-of-roswell.html



 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Volitzer on March 30, 2013, 01:13:08 pm
I appplaud your efforts but if Venusians, Martians, Saturnians and other Lyran civilizations can't speed up Mars' habitation rate what makes you think anyone living on Earth can ?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on March 30, 2013, 04:02:05 pm
Maybe we could have a more equal society there than we do on earth, where it is all run for the rich here.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on April 15, 2013, 06:20:43 pm
I appplaud your efforts but if Venusians, Martians, Saturnians and other Lyran civilizations can't speed up Mars' habitation rate what makes you think anyone living on Earth can ?
  Well, to answer your question as seriously as I can; I believe we can do it because it is in our collective nature to venture beyond what is considered impossible.
I can't sit back and believe that we can't do it, when I know for a FACT that we have and can do it. Besides Volitzer, this isn't just about going to Mars. It's about solving the problems of prolonged durations in space and inhabiting the heavens above.

Our only real hurdle is, THE SYSTEM and the dynamics involved with it. If people did what they knew could be done and money was not at the heart of the problem, we would have done it already and then some.... And that is a fact too. Which means that I have to agree with Rachel for the moment about our current stand still on progressing toward the goals presented here in this thread. :)
It's never been a matter of us not having the know how. It's merely a problem involving those who control the resources at this time.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on July 07, 2013, 11:47:27 am
Maybe we could have a more equal society there than we do on earth, where it is all run for the rich here.
This is the point of what I'm saying..... We are equal and you would be treated more like a human being and less like a servant.

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,32755.new.html#new
Which is now open for discussion here.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 16, 2013, 07:03:21 pm
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1102530_10153096975350257_1811150889_o.jpg)







 ::)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 27, 2013, 12:56:55 pm
 :) Here is something I came across that would be useful in so many ways......



(https://sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1236017_526143760788991_1102250124_n.jpg)

There is a metal called gallium that can melt in your hand. Gallium melts at 85 degrees Fahrenheit and does not occur in nature.

Material science has came along way.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 28, 2013, 09:38:49 am
http://wallstreetpit.com/100940-next-generation-water-infrastructure-4-d-printed/


Navigate: Home Latest, Technology 4-D Printing: The Solution to a $350 Billion Problem?
4-D Printing: The Solution to a $350 Billion Problem?

By Josh Grasmick, The Daily Reckoning Aug 26, 2013, 11:16 AM 

You’ve heard about 3-D printing technology. It’s poised to revolutionize the future of manufacturing globally. We call it the “Click, Print Anything Revolution.”

But do you know about 4-D printing?

4-D printing tech is what happens when 3-D printing gets “smart.” Like a seed that follows the inner instructions of its DNA, 3-D printed materials can be programmed to self-assemble.

These new materials can shift shapes in response to outside forces, such as contact with water, air, gravity, magnets and/or temperature change. “The idea behind 4-D printing,” says director of MIT’s Self-Assembly Lab Skylar Tibbits, “is that you take multimaterial 3-D printing… and you add a new capability, which is transformation.”

Tibbits is collaborating with Stratasys (NASDAQ: SSYS) to further his 4-D printing project at the Self-Assembly Lab. They believe the tech is powerful enough to disrupt “biology, material science, software, robotics, manufacturing, transportation, infrastructure, construction, the arts and even space exploration.”

Harsh environments like outer space would, indeed, be made more accommodating. But one sector with more immediate, more practical application is underground…

It’s time to rescue the most vital resource on the planet: water.

We take water for granted all the time. About 60% of your body is made up of it.

You can survive three weeks without food. But without water? Try three days. We don’t recommend it…

Throughout history, the great civilizations understood its value: Egypt, with its pyramids by the Nile, and Rome, with its monumental aqueducts.

But here in the U.S., our modern-day empire is in serious trouble. Because most of the big water systems were built within a decade after WWII, 30% of water pipes are 40-80 years old. 10% are older.

That’s why if you listen closely, dear reader, you may be able to hear it…

Water mains breaking around the country every two minutes — 700 a day, on average.

A few months ago around our Baltimore office, the city’s main street was flowing like a river. Still, that was nothing compared with what happened on the Potomac. A pipe erupted so fiercely helicopters had to be called in to rescue people before they drowned.

It’s the same everywhere else. In Philadelphia, cars and homes have been flooded. On the West coast, Los Angeles’ famous Ventura Boulevard has been swamped.

When something like that happens, you tend to be asked by local officials to stop watering your lawn and washing your car. Cut back on using toilets, they recommend. Same with dishwashers and washing machines. The fire departments need all they can get in case chaos breaks out.

But it becomes more than an inconvenience when it gets really bad. Even worse than property loss, bacteria and viruses can enter the greater water supply through broken pipes. The 2008 salmonella outbreak that sickened over 250 people in Alamosa, Colo., is a small example.

In fact, the nation’s drinking water system is so troubled the American Society of Civil Engineers gave it a grade of D-plus in its 2013 Report Card for America’s Infrastructure.

“You can’t have jobs, you can’t have businesses, homes, you can’t have hotels if this infrastructure isn’t in place,” says Eric Goldstein of the Natural Resources Defense Council.

And guess where action needs to be taken most?

I’ll give you a clue: It also has among the highest crime rates — official and unofficial.

Washington, D.C.’s, average pipe is 77 years old. In the wake of the Great Recession, funds dried up to fix the water problem. Some $10 billion were allocated from the stimulus package. But according to CNN, the funds needed over the next 20 years are $334.8 billion. The more we wait, the worse it gets.

So much for the government taking care of the public’s single most basic service: drinking water… Fortunately, our friend at MIT, Mr. Tibbits, has shown the potential of 4-D printing as a solution.

Tibbits is working more than a tad bit with a Boston company called Geosyntec to develop a new paradigm in water infrastructure. Rather than use fixed-capacity water pipes, they’re experimenting with nanoscale adaptive materials built from the environment.

Personally, I believe that the best technology is based on the work nature has already spent billions of years producing. 4-D printing with adaptive pipes to correct our water piping reminds me a lot of how human veins expand and contract to accommodate blood flow. The 4-D printing solution is similar.

“Imagine if water pipes could expand or contract to change capacity or change flow rate,” Tibbits said in a recent TED talk. “Or maybe [they] undulate like peristaltics to move the water themselves,” he said.

4 D Printing: The Solution to a $350 Billion Problem?The Next Generation of Water Infrastructure Could Be 4-D Printed

“This isn’t expensive pumps or valves,” he continues. “This is a completely programmable and adaptive pipe on its own.”

To show a brief demonstration of different ways this could work, Tibbits showed how a strand of 4-D-printed material folded into the letters M-I-T when placed in water.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on August 29, 2013, 09:55:22 am
(http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/1375/1291028537m_SPLASH.jpg)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwKTWigVDpL-YnLPh-DhtW-Um0Nji-_ZGaRkGSW88oKFGmiZvn)
(http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s563/JohnSparx21/Forge2_zpscb5a005c.jpg)(http://)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 02, 2013, 12:30:51 pm
 :)
(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/quartz-crystal-640x353.jpg)


Scientists at the University of Darmstadt in Germany have stopped light for one minute. For one whole minute, light, which is usually the fastest thing in the known universe and travels at 300 million meters per second, was stopped dead still inside a crystal. This effectively creates light memory, where the image being carried by the light is stored in crystals. Beyond being utterly cool, this breakthrough could lead to the creation of long-range quantum networks — and perhaps, tantalizingly, this research might also give us some clues on accelerating light beyond the universal speed limit.

Back in 1999, scientists slowed light down to just 17 meters per second, and then two years later the same research group stopped light entirely — but only for a few fractions of a second. Earlier this year, the Georgia Institute of Technology stopped light for 16 seconds — and now, the University of Darmstadt has stopped light for a whole minute.

To stop light, the German researchers use a technique called electromagnetically induced transparency (EIT). They start with a cryogenically cooled opaque crystal of yttrium silicate doped with praseodymium. (The image above is unrelated; sadly there isn’t an image of the actual crystal that was used to stop light.) A control laser is fired at the crystal, triggering a complex quantum-level reaction that turns it transparent. A second light source (the data/image source) is then beamed into the now-transparent crystal. The control laser is then turned off, turning the crystal opaque. Not only does this leave the light trapped inside, but the opacity means that the light inside can no longer bounce around — the light, in a word, has been stopped.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 03, 2013, 09:08:56 am
http://www.zeitnews.org/natural-sciences/space-science/spacefab-3d-printing-and-robotic-assembly-space

Currently, a significant fraction of the engineering cost and launch mass of space systems is required exclusively to enable the system to survive launch. This is particularly true for systems with physically large components, such as antennas, booms, and panels, which must be designed to stow for launch and then reliably deploy on orbit.

Furthermore, the sizes of apertures and spacecraft structures are limited by the requirement to stow them within available launch fairings. Deployable structures and inflatable/rigidizable components have enabled construction of systems with scales of several dozen meters, but their packing efficiency is not sufficient to enable scaling to the kilometer-size baselines desired for applications such as long-baseline interferometry and sparse aperture sensing.

We propose to develop a process for automated on-orbit construction of very large structures and multifunctional components. The foundation of this process is a novel additive manufacturing technique called 'SpiderFab', which combines the techniques of fused deposition modeling (FDM) with methods derived from automated composite layup to enable rapid construction of very large, very high-strength-per-mass, lattice-like structures combining both compressive and tensile elements. This technique can integrate both high-strength structural materials and conducting materials to enable construction of multifunctional space system components such as antennas.

The SpiderFab technique enables the constituent materials for a space structure to be launched in an extremely compact form, approaching perfect packing efficiencies, and processed on-orbit to form structures optimized for the micro-gee space environment, rather than launch environments. The method can also create structures with 2nd and higher orders of hierarchy, such as a 'truss-of-trusses', achieving 30X mass reductions over the 1st order hierarchy structures used in most space applications. This approach can therefore enable deployment of antenna reflectors, phased array antennas, solar panels, and radiators with characteristic sizes one to two orders of magnitude larger than current state-of-the-art deployable-structure technologies can fit within available launch shrouds.

The SpiderFab process for on-orbit construction of large, lightweight structures will dramatically reduce the launch mass and stowed volume of NASA systems for astronomy, Earth-observation, and other missions requiring large apertures or large baselines, enabling them to be deployed using much smaller, less expensive launch vehicles and thereby reducing total life cycle cost for these missions.

Potential applications include construction of multiple high-gain antennas in Earth and solar orbit to support a deep-space communications network, long-baseline interferometry systems for terrestrial planet finder programs, and submillimeter astronomy of cosmic structure. The proposed space system fabrication technologies will also enable these systems to be re-configurable and repairable on orbit, and can evolve to support ISRU of orbital debris in Earth orbit and asteroid materials in deep space exploration missions.

In the proposed effort, we will develop concept designs for space systems that will use the SpiderFab process to create and integrate very large apertures and other structures for NASA space science and exploration missions.

We will develop an architecture concept combining the SpiderFab process with robotic assembly technologies and automated quality control/metrology techniques to enable on-orbit construction of kilometer-scale antenna apertures to enable capabilities such as high-bandwidth communications with deep-space probes and radar imaging of deep-space objects. We will then evaluate the potential performance benefits for candidate missions relative to state-of-the-art deployable technologies.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Vernon Guilley on September 05, 2013, 01:56:55 am
What you want to go to Mars for, ain't earth good enough for you?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Vernon Guilley on September 05, 2013, 01:59:18 am
George W. wanted to go to Mars, you all ignored him, don't steal the man's idea, give him some credit.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 05, 2013, 07:15:58 pm
 :) We did... I even saluted him when he came to my city.....
I don't think I ever had my middle finger up that long before that.  ;)
Now, do me a favor and don't troll me.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 05, 2013, 09:11:29 pm
The massive amount of processing power generated by computer manufacturers has not yet been able to quench our thirst for speed and computing capacity. In 1947, American computer engineer Howard Aiken said that just six electronic digital computers would satisfy the computing needs of the United States. Others have made similar errant predictions about the amount of computing power that would support our growing technological needs. Of course, Aiken didn't count on the large amounts of data generated by scientific research, the proliferation of personal computers or the emergence of the Internet, which have only fueled our need for more, more and more computing power.

Will we ever have the amount of computing power we need or want? If, as Moore's Law states, the number of transistors on a microprocessor continues to double every 18 months, the year 2020 or 2030 will find the circuits on a microprocessor measured on an atomic scale. And the logical next step will be to create quantum computers, which will harness the power of atoms and molecules to perform memory and processing tasks. Quantum computers have the potential to perform certain calculations significantly faster than any silicon-based computer.

Scientists have already built basic quantum computers that can perform certain calculations; but a practical quantum computer is still years away. In this article, you'll learn what a quantum computer is and just what it'll be used for in the next era of computing.

You don't have to go back too far to find the origins of quantum computing. While computers have been around for the majority of the 20th century, quantum computing was first theorized less than 30 years ago, by a physicist at the Argonne National Laboratory. Paul Benioff is credited with first applying quantum theory to computers in 1981. Benioff theorized about creating a quantum Turing machine.

The Turing machine, developed by Alan Turing in the 1930s, is a theoretical device that consists of tape of unlimited length that is divided into little squares. Each square can either hold a symbol (1 or 0) or be left blank. A read-write device reads these symbols and blanks, which gives the machine its instructions to perform a certain program. Does this sound familiar? Well, in a quantum Turing machine, the difference is that the tape exists in a quantum state, as does the read-write head. This means that the symbols on the tape can be either 0 or 1 or a superposition of 0 and 1; in other words the symbols are both 0 and 1 (and all points in between) at the same time. While a normal Turing machine can only perform one calculation at a time, a quantum Turing machine can perform many calculations at once.

Today's computers, like a Turing machine, work by manipulating bits that exist in one of two states: a 0 or a 1. Quantum computers aren't limited to two states; they encode information as quantum bits, or qubits, which can exist in superposition. Qubits represent atoms, ions, photons or electrons and their respective control devices that are working together to act as computer memory and a processor. Because a quantum computer can contain these multiple states simultaneously, it has the potential to be millions of times more powerful than today's most powerful supercomputers.

This superposition of qubits is what gives quantum computers their inherent parallelism. According to physicist David Deutsch, this parallelism allows a quantum computer to work on a million computations at once, while your desktop PC works on one. A 30-qubit quantum computer would equal the processing power of a conventional computer that could run at 10 teraflops (trillions of floating-point operations per second). Today's typical desktop computers run at speeds measured in gigaflops (billions of floating-point operations per second).

Quantum computers also utilize another aspect of quantum mechanics known as entanglement. One problem with the idea of quantum computers is that if you try to look at the subatomic particles, you could bump them, and thereby change their value. If you look at a qubit in superposition to determine its value, the qubit will assume the value of either 0 or 1, but not both (effectively turning your spiffy quantum computer into a mundane digital computer). To make a practical quantum computer, scientists have to devise ways of making measurements indirectly to preserve the system's integrity. Entanglement provides a potential answer. In quantum physics, if you apply an outside force to two atoms, it can cause them to become entangled, and the second atom can take on the properties of the first atom. So if left alone, an atom will spin in all directions. The instant it is disturbed it chooses one spin, or one value; and at the same time, the second entangled atom will choose an opposite spin, or value. This allows scientists to know the value of the qubits without actually looking at them.

Quantum computers could one day replace silicon chips, just like the transistor once replaced the vacuum tube. But for now, the technology required to develop such a quantum computer is beyond our reach. Most research in quantum computing is still very theoretical.

The most advanced quantum computers have not gone beyond manipulating more than 16 qubits, meaning that they are a far cry from practical application. However, the potential remains that quantum computers one day could perform, quickly and easily, calculations that are incredibly time-consuming on conventional computers. Several key advancements have been made in quantum computing in the last few years. Let's look at a few of the quantum computers that have been developed.
1998

Los Alamos and MIT researchers managed to spread a single qubit across three nuclear spins in each molecule of a liquid solution of alanine (an amino acid used to analyze quantum state decay) or trichloroethylene (a chlorinated hydrocarbon used for quantum error correction) molecules. Spreading out the qubit made it harder to corrupt, allowing researchers to use entanglement to study interactions between states as an indirect method for analyzing the quantum information.
2000

In March, scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory announced the development of a 7-qubit quantum computer within a single drop of liquid. The quantum computer uses nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) to manipulate particles in the atomic nuclei of molecules of trans-crotonic acid, a simple fluid consisting of molecules made up of six hydrogen and four carbon atoms. The NMR is used to apply electromagnetic pulses, which force the particles to line up. These particles in positions parallel or counter to the magnetic field allow the quantum computer to mimic the information-encoding of bits in digital computers.

Researchers at IBM-Almaden Research Center developed what they claimed was the most advanced quantum computer to date in August. The 5-qubit quantum computer was designed to allow the nuclei of five fluorine atoms to interact with each other as qubits, be programmed by radio frequency pulses and be detected by NMR instruments similar to those used in hospitals (see How Magnetic Resonance Imaging Works for details). Led by Dr. Isaac Chuang, the IBM team was able to solve in one step a mathematical problem that would take conventional computers repeated cycles. The problem, called order-finding, involves finding the period of a particular function, a typical aspect of many mathematical problems involved in cryptography.
2001

Scientists from IBM and Stanford University successfully demonstrated Shor's Algorithm on a quantum computer. Shor's Algorithm is a method for finding the prime factors of numbers (which plays an intrinsic role in cryptography). They used a 7-qubit computer to find the factors of 15. The computer correctly deduced that the prime factors were 3 and 5.
2005

The Institute of Quantum Optics and Quantum Information at the University of Innsbruck announced that scientists had created the first qubyte, or series of 8 qubits, using ion traps.
2006

Scientists in Waterloo and Massachusetts devised methods for quantum control on a 12-qubit system. Quantum control becomes more complex as systems employ more qubits.
2007

Canadian startup company D-Wave demonstrated a 16-qubit quantum computer. The computer solved a sudoku puzzle and other pattern matching problems. The company claims it will produce practical systems by 2008. Skeptics believe practical quantum computers are still decades away, that the system D-Wave has created isn't scaleable, and that many of the claims on D-Wave's Web site are simply impossible (or at least impossible to know for certain given our understanding of quantum mechanics).

If functional quantum computers can be built, they will be valuable in factoring large numbers, and therefore extremely useful for decoding and encoding secret information. If one were to be built today, no information on the Internet would be safe. Our current methods of encryption are simple compared to the complicated methods possible in quantum computers. Quantum computers could also be used to search large databases in a fraction of the time that it would take a conventional computer. Other applications could include using quantum computers to study quantum mechanics, or even to design other quantum computers.

But quantum computing is still in its early stages of development, and many computer scientists believe the technology needed to create a practical quantum computer is years away. Quantum computers must have at least several dozen qubits to be able to solve real-world problems, and thus serve as a viable computing method.



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on September 06, 2013, 12:39:11 am
Wow, have you studied quantum physics, Harry? That stuff has always gone over my head.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2013, 05:40:35 am
 :) I have studied Quantum physics and electronic manipulation of atoms.
Right now I'm dabbling in to particle physics.

The idea here is to use a quantum computer to manipulate the needed particles in space.
From this, we can find different methods for the SELF-assembly of materials, and even complex structures.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 06, 2013, 09:00:40 am
An Example of what I'm thinking is like this sorta, Rachel...


(http://www.zeitnews.org/sites/default/files/users/10/article_body_images/3d-printing-and-robotic-assembly-in-space-9_large.jpg)

Again, the resources to construct basically everything in this thread would come from mining asteroids.
And when you get into materials, we are talking literally everything from Titanium, Cobalt, Iron, Aluminum, water, oxygen, helium 3, and well basically name it.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on September 14, 2013, 04:38:05 pm
Seems like we aren't advanced yet to begin mining asteroids, Harry. I think you would need to get a bunch of terraforming stuff in place first? Plus, aren't asteroids constantly moving? Like I said, I don't have much know how when it comes to quantum physics.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on September 14, 2013, 10:12:22 pm
 :) Well we have NEO's which could serve as a beginning. These Near Earth Objects, sail through our solar system and can come as close as 28 million miles to 18,000 miles from Earth.... There are at least 10,000 of these objects that range in size from only a few feet to 28 miles across. Laser mining is one of the ideas I have been kicking around. By cutting chunks off that are smaller at a continuous rate and returning them to a stationary place in outer space. We can create a logistically perfect system of refinement and material return. Not to mention we are improving the odds of human survival by mining NEO's to death so they don't impact the Earth.  :) Justification, if you will.


As for quantum Computing, it would be used to coordinate robotic mining and production of machines and materials.....
To begin with. As for the big picture, creating an Exodus space station is something that would happen as our understanding of material science deepens.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 04, 2013, 06:46:20 pm
http://youtu.be/KnCMQ4OY24w
 ::)

http://youtu.be/JODJYwYz088


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 04, 2013, 06:50:33 pm
 ;D

http://youtu.be/7uFOFr1MFjU


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 04, 2013, 06:56:19 pm
 :)

What happens when you combined 4D printing with quantum computing?


http://youtu.be/RfW1NYvV0PM


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 04, 2013, 07:06:38 pm
And finally my favorite substance for making things that can have enhanced structural integrity and way lower weight.

http://youtu.be/mEH6tDLKcVU



Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on October 26, 2013, 12:21:54 am
So how will people reproduce in space? Wonder if being born on another planet will lend itself to some kind of deformities?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on October 26, 2013, 08:42:31 am
You know, I have given this a lot of thought and for the sake of a book I came up with this idea of using a controlled manipulation of our DNA.
We found a way to trick our DNA into accepting the planet Eden as out mother world. The scientific explanation of how we did it involved nanobots that are controlled by chemical reactions in our body's proteins to alter the DNA slowly and gradually to make it adaptable to the planet.
As for reproducing in space, The Exodus space station would have a normal Earth like gravity and it produced an Earth like magnetic field naturally.
I can't think of any problems. However, our scientist have asked the same questions for the sake of this book and the inhabitants of this Exodus space station were encouraged to have sex often in both normal gravity and 0 gravity. :)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 01, 2013, 06:03:48 pm
http://news.discovery.com/space/asteroids-meteors-meteorites/could-asteroid-mining-drive-21st-century-space-industry-130204.htm

 :D I've been writing this blog for a few years now and just look at whats transpiring.



The two asteroid mining companies, DSI and Planetary Resources, have the same basic goal, but their intended methods are somewhat different. Planetary Resources are currently developing small, low-cost “LEO” telescopes to survey asteroids on demand, from Earth orbit. They later plan to develop two larger types of prospecting craft. The “Interceptor” will act as a longer range prospector, being able to intercept any asteroids that come within 10-30 times the Earth-moon orbit (something which occurs quite frequently). Finally, the “Rendezvous Prospector” would be able to travel halfway across the inner solar system to gather detailed information about asteroids — including size, shape, rotation, and density. While it’s clear that they plan to develop craft to return samples and eventually return whole asteroids, they haven’t yet made any further details public.

DSI, on the other hand, are taking a more aggressive approach. They currently have two planned spacecraft. The “Firefly”, constructed from low cost materials, will prospect for suitable asteroids to mine. The larger “Dragonfly” craft will then go and start collecting asteroid material. They appear to have numerous more ambitious concept sketches for future craft, but again they haven’t released many details yet.

ANALYSIS: Mining Asteroids: Not Mankind’s Silver Bullet

As well as metal, both companies intend to harvest hydrogen and oxygen to effectively create orbital fuel stations for other spacecraft. Planetary Resources have the long term goal of being able to alter the orbital trajectories of asteroids, and return entire asteroids into lunar orbit for mining. Meanwhile, DSI’s plans involve a 3D printer, dubbed the “Microgravity Foundry”, which will be able to create high quality metal components in orbit. Between them, we could be looking at the beginnings of true orbital industry.  Can't wait to show these guys this thread one day....


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 06, 2013, 06:35:49 pm
 ;)

http://youtu.be/TsL-HLoVt2M

A twist, for the emotions I'm expressing in the form of sounds and alpha waves...
Earthlings call it, music.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on November 10, 2013, 04:43:19 pm
So I heard this week that India is planning a Mars mission. Do you know they also went to the moon in the last few years and no one said anything about it?  The last time we went to the moon was back in 1974. Seems like other countries are passing us up.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on November 23, 2013, 06:32:20 pm
So I heard this week that India is planning a Mars mission. Do you know they also went to the moon in the last few years and no one said anything about it?  The last time we went to the moon was back in 1974. Seems like other countries are passing us up.

If I could get this blog noticed by someone who is into alternative ideas....
And an army of volunteers to help.... It wouldn't happen. This would become a reality.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on November 26, 2013, 11:17:15 pm
Send it to Stephen Hawking, I am sure he can sort through the merits of it, he's a smart guy.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 05, 2013, 06:26:45 pm
 :) He's a little too main stream sweety.
I'm thinking more along the line of sending this concept through some people in DSI...
Private Enterprise is where the initial process starts.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on December 08, 2013, 06:59:12 pm
Here's what you do, make an outline of the key points, then write up the whole proposal and send it to Richard Branson!  Tell him you also want a nice check as an adviser.  ;)


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 09, 2013, 03:24:39 pm
 :) hmm


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 01, 2014, 01:33:28 pm
Seems like we aren't advanced yet to begin mining asteroids, Harry. I think you would need to get a bunch of terraforming stuff in place first? Plus, aren't asteroids constantly moving? Like I said, I don't have much know how when it comes to quantum physics.



We launch robotic mining equipment to the surface of an asteroid. Once they harvest the materials that can be stored in containing units. Robotic recovery units are deployed with an empty containment unit. ;) Logistical, magnificent. Ultimately, they go and eat the rock and then poop out the stuff were gonna process, and go back to eating.
 


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Zodiac on June 01, 2014, 09:20:21 pm
Thing is, life here probably started on Mars and then came here. We go back there and we are revisiting old ground, so to speak.  :D


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2014, 12:18:40 pm
Hmmm, If that was ever the case... It would be the discovery of a life time to find evidence of mining or ruins on Mars.


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 28, 2016, 12:32:27 pm
So how will people reproduce in space? Wonder if being born on another planet will lend itself to some kind of deformities?
I have this fear too. What does anykind of environmental change pose on the future for humankind?


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: Rachel Dearth on January 02, 2017, 09:33:33 pm
I think you'd have to replicate earth conditions as much as possible to keep that from happening. HAPPY NEW YEAR, HEREFORNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Private Enterprise- To mars
Post by: HereForNow on December 16, 2017, 04:32:45 pm
I appplaud your efforts but if Venusians, Martians, Saturnians and other Lyran civilizations can't speed up Mars' habitation rate what makes you think anyone living on Earth can ?
      Well old friend. It's the progression of my predictions in the changes we apply using natural forces.