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the Coffee Shop => the Coffee Shop => Topic started by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 12:44:10 am



Title: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 12:44:10 am


           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m98QK3PFMg&feature=related


The Timeline to Tyranny
Ten advances towards the end of freedom and privacy in the United States

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, August 7, 2007
     

The top ten advances towards tyranny in the United States during the tenure of the Bush administration, from the Patriot Act to the latest expansion of the illegal eavesdropping surveillance program.

1) The USA Patriot Act

The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. Here is an archive of articles that disproves both of these fallacies.

The Patriot Act was the boiler plate from which all subsequent attacks on the Constitution were formed.

2) Total Information Awareness

"Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database," infamously wrote New York Times writer William Safire, announcing the birth of Total Information Awareness, a kind of Echelon on steroids introduced a year after 9/11.

TIA was not canned, it was simply removed from the newspaper, renamed and continues to operate under a guise of different programs.

(Article continues below)

3) USA Patriot Act II

The second Patriot Act was a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganized the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.

4) Military Commissions Act

Slamming the final nail in the coffin of everything America used to stand for, the boot-licking U.S. Senate gave President Bush the legal authority to abduct and sexually mutilate American citizens and American children in the name of the war on terror in passing the Military Commissions Act and officially ending Habeas Corpus.

There is nothing in the "detainee" legislation that protects American citizens from being kidnapped by their own government and tortured.

The New York Times stated that the legislation introduced, "A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted."

Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."

5) John Warner Defense Authorization Act

The Bush Junta quietly "tooled up" to utilize the U.S. military in engaging American dissidents after the next big crisis, with a frightening and overlooked piece of legislation that was passed alongside the Military Commissions Act, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which greased the skids for armed confrontation and abolishes posse comitatus.

6) Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

"Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials," reported the New York Times on December 16, 2005

The secret warrantless spying program was a complete violation of both the 4th Amendment and FISA.

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7) Expansion of Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

Not content with now being lawfully allowed to force ISP's and cell phone companies to turn over data about customers without a warrant, the Bush administration is pushing for even more authority to spy on American citizens, and has already been handed a 6 month window within which to impose any surveillance policy it likes, and for that program to remain legal in perpetuity.

The administration has a 6 month window in which to impose any surveillance program it chooses and that program will go unchallenged and remain legally binding in perpetuity - it cannot be revoked. Under the definitions of the legislation, Bush has been granted absolute dictator status for a minimum of 6 months.

If he so chooses, and so long as it's implemented within the next half year, Bush could build a database of every website visited by every American - and the policy would be immune from Congressional challenge even after the "surveillance gap" legislation reaches its sunset

 Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51

New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.

The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive, which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic "security", was signed earlier this month without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to "modify, rescind, or render dormant" such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.

9) Destruction of the Dollar

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz has predicted a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed. Asked if the situation was being properly handled Stiglitz emphatically responded "no,".

Stiglitz caused controversy in October 2001 when he exposed rampant corruption within the IMF and blew the whistle on their nefarious methods of inducing countries to fall under their debt before stripping them of sovereignty and hollowing out their economies. Stiglitz agreed that the process of hijacking and looting key infrastructure on the part of the IMF and World Bank, as an offshoot of predatory globalization, had now moved from the third world to Europe, the United States and Canada.

10) Amnesty & The North American Union

The open plan to merge the US with Mexico and Canada and create a Pan American Union has long been a Globalist brainchild but its very real and prescient implementation on behalf of the Council on Foreign Relations has finally been reported on by mainstream news outlets.

The framework on which the American Union is being pegged is the NAFTA Super Highway, a four football-fields-wide leviathan that stretches from southern Mexico through the US up to Montreal Canada .Coupled with Bush's blanket amnesty program, the Pan American Union is the final jigsaw piece for the total dismantling of America as we know it.


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


Naomi Wolf on Colbert Report: Fascism in 10 Easy Steps
1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2. Create a gulag (labor camp/political prison)
3. Develop a thug caste
4. Set up an internal surveillance system
5. Harass citizens' groups
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7. Target key individuals
8. Control the press
9. Dissent equals treason
10. Suspend the rule of law

11. Grab the Guns


                                   http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&hl=en



Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 14, 2009, 01:28:07 am
Hi Hareconen, aren't you a little late with these pointers?  All these things happened under Bush, years ago.  Presidential Decision Directive 51, for instance, giving Bush complete authority in time of an emergency, was signed by him years ago.

Not to say that it would have actually been law since it would have remade the Constitution.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 14, 2009, 01:30:42 am
As for a new American revolution, wouldn't the time to do that have been under Bush?  Our guy won the last election.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 01:46:45 am
                  Welcome B.K.

Thanks for remanding us about the past.I see that you registred to answer on this topic, I hope that isn't only reason.

Now, what about present or future?That is the question.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 14, 2009, 02:02:18 am
I actually registered a lonnnggg time ago, but haven't posted till lately. 

My area of interest is ancient history.

Okay, the reason why I think that the fear of that is unjustified is basically that all the worst has actually happened for the most part.  Sure, there was a real threat of Bush doing all the things you mentioned (and he has done most of them), but luckily he is out of there now.

Too bad there aren't any war crimes trials cause he deserves them!


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 02:26:55 am


Okay, the reason why I think that the fear of that is unjustified is basically that all the worst has actually happened for the most part.  Sure, there was a real threat of Bush doing all the things you mentioned (and he has done most of them), but luckily he is out of there now.

Too bad there aren't any war crimes trials cause he deserves them!
Do you think that Obama is free to act, or he is NWO agent, like Bush?Is it posible to become U.S. President without NWO support?Did you see video Endgame?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Volitzer on June 14, 2009, 02:56:20 am
As for a new American revolution, wouldn't the time to do that have been under Bush?  Our guy won the last election.

Your "guy" works for the Bilderbergers who are trying to bring America into a North American Union and displace American Sovereignty.


The Obama Deception

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7535755025025800195


Endgame

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&q=Endgame+&ei=1t4QSPaoB5q2rAKJzaywBA


America: Freedom to Fascism

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=Freedom+to+Fascism&ei=at8QSJPIL52mrALI99GwBA

Police State 2000

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1551348336255792191&ei=li3YSe2vEInUrQLMhunlAg&q=Police+state+2000


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 03:05:29 am
As for a new American revolution, wouldn't the time to do that have been under Bush?  Our guy won the last election.

Your "guy" works for the Bilderbergers who are trying to bring America into a North American Union and displace American Sovereignty.


   I know that, it was obvious.Do you see how they jump in like (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6909/grem.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/grem.jpg/) on a call.  ;)


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 06:22:53 am

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3337/avataryym.jpg) (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/avataryym.jpg/)



For all Yeswecanists little gift.You can use it like avatar so we can know that you are who you are.



Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 14, 2009, 09:59:52 am
Welcome to the forum Bryan. 

Again, I'll ask, as I have in the other thread, just what is it that you think a revolution will do?  What is it you want it to do?  Who would be your leader?  What would that person be expected to do? 

If President Obama had not given the bail-out packageds, and had let the United States totally collapse financially, what would y'all be doing right now?  Trying even harder to string him up, that's what.  Would people like you and HFN who think money is the root of all evil be happy then?  When there is no money people will riot.  People need food.  The people who have the food would protect it.  Gangs would form and there would be terrible fights and killings, just because there is no SYSTEM that people can live by.  The system right now is that people WORK, they get paid to work, and then they buy the things they need to survive.  If there is no system in place for a standard monetary value, please explain what you think would happen all across the country?  You would all be DEMANDING that the government HELP.  You would be demanding that the government buy you food because you would blame the government for your job loss because the government didn't do a bail-out. 

So what the hell is it you are trying to create with your antagonistic attitudes?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 14, 2009, 11:45:38 am
                  Welcome B.K.

Thanks for remanding us about the past.I see that you registred to answer on this topic, I hope that isn't only reason.

Now, what about present or future?That is the question.

As I said, Harconen is using reverse psycology to make it look like he's an innocent party, but it's the same subject.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 14, 2009, 02:29:10 pm
4th of July March for Freedom
Stop NWO- by sitting there on a computer? March For Freedom

Body: Again, there is no reason for us to complain about what they are doing if we are not willing to act against it together. Respectfully, that is the truth of the matter and we have to be realistic.
No one but Americans can better express that this game of power is all really about controlling the entire human race and enslaving it through artifical debt created by not just American Elites. But the entire organized banking system of the world.

LOL I hate to say this again but........

We are supporting it everytime we spend a dollar, make a dollar, accumulate debt, and use their resouces.
Why?

Because it's all we know. Since birth and before we were born it has been this way since 1914.
End the Fed. End NWO. End the use of their money.
There simply is another way and we need to discover it without involving politics or hiring agencies to do it for us. Not just America, But Everyone.

Ofcourse I'm saying this to serve no purpose because people are to comfortable with things staying just like they are. Or are they?

Hmmmm
Either way, I'm not and I know alot of people personally that aren't either.
And then there is a network of others who support what we are. Thousands of people literally.
Even ex-soldiers who fought in Iraq who have disclosed things that we all suspected. They confirmed those ideas we all had.
Weapons of mass destruction, my butt. They are coming forward and willing to testify in front of the supreme courts that their mission over there was all a lie. Explain special missions forces being trained to secure ancient sights throughout Iraq and now Iran....

Brother, Sisters the rabbit hole on this is so deep that.........
I'll stop right there.

People have to make up their own minds.
As for myself, I am telling you what is being said among the masses and what I'm seeing out of this chaos. A pattern to it all is emerging and it's pointless to not try for something more then what we are by simply exposing these frauds. Action must be taken now because the window of oppurtunity is closing faster then we think it is and when the hammer falls. I for one am not willing to go into the night defeated by the witt of the devil.

My part is taking place on the 4 of July with or without the support of my community.
They are going to know that atleast I am not being fooled by their lies anymore and that I am telling them I know. If death is all I am to know then I will live on now, telling everyone I can possibly tell that we don't have to sit here and take this outrage any longer.

((((Hugs))))
Yes my dear friend, this is what they do.
And this is why I am going to protest it on this nation's birthday.
They exploit the advantage of super-secret organized crime.

I am going to Exploit the word about it. Period!
Even if 20 marchers show and march that 3 mile walk. Banners flying and signs in the air.
The local news will be airing it, and friends of mine here in town are going to YouTube it......
People one way or the other are going to atleast hear about it and see it.

If the cops end up involved, I had instructed the camera friends to focas the cameras on everything they do.


Technically, we are not breaking any laws by rallying. We are protected still under the bill of rights. I'm going to just do it.
I also took the measure of inviting Alex Jones. LOL
Now I can't say for sure that he will come.

However I plastered it on his comments to his myspace profile, and I posted the invite message.
I am also contacting local AM radio the week of and informing them of what we're doing and why. We are change ladies and gentalmen, And if we don't stand up to these bullies. No one else will either. I feel really good about what I'm trying to do and if all of these things are true or not. Everyone deserves to know for sure what the truth really is about everything.
I am not going to run and hide. I am not going to continue just accepting that this is the way it is.

I feel that it's time to stand up to this monster and stop it before it has a chance to succeed more then it already has in the way it brain-washed us all into this sick and twisted plan for global domination. We have all been fooled and now it's time to tell the others out there that they have been too.


I am not affraid of what this all may bring because the more they act against it the more they reveal the unjust qualities of this corruption. The more they expose the very truth they are suppressing. No matter what is or isn't accomplished by this simple March. People are going to atleast hear why it happened and that is all that needs to happen.
From there, people can make their own decision about it. Hopefully their will be a second annual March of Freedom next year with a bigger crowd.



In kind- It doesn't have to be only myself in this forum that does something of this kind. If enough cities did this on the forth of July, it would make national news.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 14, 2009, 06:33:54 pm
@


                                               http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qG6UIr8z


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2009, 04:11:39 am
@


                                               http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qG6UIr8z

 ;) We know!
Question is; What are we going to do about it?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2009, 04:19:02 am
Hi Hareconen, aren't you a little late with these pointers?  All these things happened under Bush, years ago.  Presidential Decision Directive 51, for instance, giving Bush complete authority in time of an emergency, was signed by him years ago.

Not to say that it would have actually been law since it would have remade the Constitution.

Yet we have no records of it being passed or not. Being that it was signed by Bush, Congress and senate could have put that into effect and not informed the American people.
This was done with the Patriot Act!


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 15, 2009, 04:33:33 am
I feel safe with Obama.  I did not feel safe with Bush--nor did the rest of the world.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: zachariah on June 15, 2009, 09:00:07 am
I feel safe with Obama.  I did not feel safe with Bush--nor did the rest of the world.


NKOREA WARNS OF NUCLEAR WAR...

Netanyahu endorses Palestinian independence...

Refuses to halt settlements...

Hamas slams 'racist, extremist'...

Mubarak: 'Not Egypt, nor any other Arab country would accept Israel as a Jewish state'...

Carter: Netanyahu placed obstacles...

WIRE: Mideast setbacks weigh on Obama policy...

TEHRAN CRACKDOWN...

Stimulus Apologies: Biden says 'everyone guessed wrong'...

Michigan counties reverting to gravel roads...
PAPER: Obama's Spending Plans May Pose Political Risks...

US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bianca on June 15, 2009, 09:20:34 am



Raising taxes by the mile - Washington Examiner

Ahmadinejad: 1; Obama: 0 

It's the Deficit, Stupid  - Town Hall

Bibi's Rebuff  - New York Post

Palestinians angered by Netanyahu peace terms - AP

Dream deferred: Americans may never retire at LiveScience.com

Obama's Upsidedown World: Short-Term Gain For Long-Term Pain - CFP


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Tom Hebert on June 15, 2009, 01:20:39 pm
Obama is basically trying to reverse the eight years of incompetence we had under Bush.  It can't be done overnight, and he has so stated himself.  I believe Obama has already turned our country in the right direction, but who knows how long it will take to fully recover?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 15, 2009, 02:17:57 pm
It's all going according to plans....
You see, now what they expect us to do is mistrust all sides of the political circle to where we are forced to turn to corperate.  ;)

Then again who cares what they are doing?
LOL


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 15, 2009, 03:13:36 pm
@


                                               http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qG6UIr8z

 ;) We know!
Question is; What are we going to do about it?

   I don't know  :-\ , but if we don't do anything we can, one day,  we will wake up in FEMA camp.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Volitzer on June 15, 2009, 04:17:12 pm
Welcome to the forum Bryan. 

Again, I'll ask, as I have in the other thread, just what is it that you think a revolution will do?  What is it you want it to do?  Who would be your leader?  What would that person be expected to do? 

If President Obama had not given the bail-out packageds, and had let the United States totally collapse financially, what would y'all be doing right now?  Trying even harder to string him up, that's what.  Would people like you and HFN who think money is the root of all evil be happy then?  When there is no money people will riot.  People need food.  The people who have the food would protect it.  Gangs would form and there would be terrible fights and killings, just because there is no SYSTEM that people can live by.  The system right now is that people WORK, they get paid to work, and then they buy the things they need to survive.  If there is no system in place for a standard monetary value, please explain what you think would happen all across the country?  You would all be DEMANDING that the government HELP.  You would be demanding that the government buy you food because you would blame the government for your job loss because the government didn't do a bail-out. 

So what the hell is it you are trying to create with your antagonistic attitudes?

Ron Paul in 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 15, 2009, 08:11:08 pm
Welcome to the forum Bryan. 

Again, I'll ask, as I have in the other thread, just what is it that you think a revolution will do?  What is it you want it to do?  Who would be your leader?  What would that person be expected to do? 

If President Obama had not given the bail-out packageds, and had let the United States totally collapse financially, what would y'all be doing right now?  Trying even harder to string him up, that's what.  Would people like you and HFN who think money is the root of all evil be happy then?  When there is no money people will riot.  People need food.  The people who have the food would protect it.  Gangs would form and there would be terrible fights and killings, just because there is no SYSTEM that people can live by.  The system right now is that people WORK, they get paid to work, and then they buy the things they need to survive.  If there is no system in place for a standard monetary value, please explain what you think would happen all across the country?  You would all be DEMANDING that the government HELP.  You would be demanding that the government buy you food because you would blame the government for your job loss because the government didn't do a bail-out. 

So what the hell is it you are trying to create with your antagonistic attitudes?

Ron Paul in 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

            WARNING!

          The last picture of Ron Paul!   (http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6164/rrrrrrrrrrrr.jpg) (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/rrrrrrrrrrrr.jpg/)


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 15, 2009, 08:27:20 pm
So.....Ron Paul is YOUR messiah then?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 15, 2009, 08:49:50 pm
So.....Ron Paul is YOUR messiah then?
Nooooo Qoais that is an enemy propaganda  ;)

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 15, 2009, 11:20:13 pm
Welcome to the forum Bryan. 

Again, I'll ask, as I have in the other thread, just what is it that you think a revolution will do?  What is it you want it to do?  Who would be your leader?  What would that person be expected to do? 

If President Obama had not given the bail-out packageds, and had let the United States totally collapse financially, what would y'all be doing right now?  Trying even harder to string him up, that's what.  Would people like you and HFN who think money is the root of all evil be happy then?  When there is no money people will riot.  People need food.  The people who have the food would protect it.  Gangs would form and there would be terrible fights and killings, just because there is no SYSTEM that people can live by.  The system right now is that people WORK, they get paid to work, and then they buy the things they need to survive.  If there is no system in place for a standard monetary value, please explain what you think would happen all across the country?  You would all be DEMANDING that the government HELP.  You would be demanding that the government buy you food because you would blame the government for your job loss because the government didn't do a bail-out. 

So what the hell is it you are trying to create with your antagonistic attitudes?

Whoa!  I'm not the one with the antagonistic attitude, I voted for Obama.

Having said that, I do have a few issues with how he handled things economically.  Here is what I would have done differently:

1. Obama and Bush bailed out the banks, but they should have done it differently.  They should have given the banks money on behalf of all the people who had bad loans and had their houses in foreclosure.  That way, they would have solved two problems at once.

2  Obama should have nationalized the banks when he gave them aid.  That way, he could have rewritten their rules and fired all the greedy CEOs before letting them go private again.  They would have also been forced to participate in his mortgage program.  Right now, participation is optional and tons of people are  being turned down for the programs who need help.

3.  He should have reduced the balance on their credit card  debt!  Consumer spending is what drives the economy, not manufacturing.  You can't spend when you are paying 20% to 30% interest rates.  There should also be a cap on interest rates at 15%.

4.  GM and Chrysler should have been bailed out, but only if they promised to not lay people off.  In Germany, the government pays companies to keep employees on and makes up the difference that the companies can't pay.  It is just as cheap as paying unemployment and it keeps more manufacturing here.

5. Obama should institute a single payer health plan, everyone pays into one giant government pool like they do in all other industrialized countries.  The leading source of bankruptcy in the U.S. is medical bills. If everyone had insurance, they would no longer have that burden.

All these things step on the capitalistic ways of doing things, but since capitalism only helps the rich, I am ready for a change. Also, there is no down side, they are already calling Obama a socialist, so he may as well do what is needed. 


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 15, 2009, 11:21:57 pm
I feel safe with Obama.  I did not feel safe with Bush--nor did the rest of the world.


Sure, whatever he has or hasn't done, he is ten times better than Bush.  Bush created this whole mess!


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Bryan Krachtt on June 15, 2009, 11:26:19 pm
Hi Hareconen, aren't you a little late with these pointers?  All these things happened under Bush, years ago.  Presidential Decision Directive 51, for instance, giving Bush complete authority in time of an emergency, was signed by him years ago.

Not to say that it would have actually been law since it would have remade the Constitution.

Yet we have no records of it being passed or not. Being that it was signed by Bush, Congress and senate could have put that into effect and not informed the American people.
This was done with the Patriot Act!


Presidential Directive 51 was a Presidential directive, sort of like one of Bush's signing statements.

The Patriot Act actually was passed by Congress, the problem being no one actually read it before it got signed!


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 15, 2009, 11:49:43 pm
Hi Bryan - the "antagonistic" thing wasn't aimed at you.  It was aimed at these guys that keep putting President Obama down, but not coming up with any answers themselves.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 05:45:27 am
I offered a solution!

Thing is; All people with the acception of Tibetan Monks are way to material to even think about such a thing.

Even in most religions; It's said-
Quote
It's easier for a camel to jump through the eye of a needle then it is for a rich man to go to heaven.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 06:04:59 am
 :) Q- I like your spunk, but sweety.
You are contributing to something that is based on personal opinion.
Sure, Obama is better then Bush. Speech wise.
However, you can't expect a nation to not question his agenda's that knew the crimes of Bush.

Bush atleast did his dirt in our faces and then more or less gave us the finger when we questioned it.
Now what we have here is;

A high unemployment rate.
(http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/owed.gif)
Then we have this example of a huge mistake the Obama's administration contributed to the nation
deficit. They were wrong about the unemployment rate getting smaller once the stimulus was passed.
It got much worse and is expected to rise. 59.4% went to everything but the people and 40.6%
went toward funding the wars on both sides. The people can spend that money better then our government, and still we have nothing to look forward to except more unemployment, and more problems.
Why would they sink money into helping first time home buyers get these grants for these huge down payments, if the can't ensure that the companies these people work for are even going to stay open?

Again, Obama is not the whole problem. Yet his plans to solve what the others did to run this country into the ground aren't going to work! They are IN FACT, making things just more complicated.
In all honesty, I feel that his real intentions do not have our best interests in mind. America needs industries like whole sale and manufacturing, instead of tourism. We need to be more innovative and creative, instead of accepting what markets work best for now to stimulate the economic structures of businesses. America needs to find things that the world will use for generations to come and they need to be made here.


Personally, if I personally owed China the kind of money that our government does.
I would have borrowed that money at interest as they did to spur progressive changes in the way we do everything to make money.

Thinking of it; Say you have a hexagonal nut for a bolt. Ever notice how it strips if you don't fasten it or losen it correctly? Then you have to drill and tap, after you finally remove it.
Now imagine manufacturing nuts with a triangle head. Now we have to make wrenches for them and produce new machines that use them. Sell the machines.

Suddenly one may need serviced. Now who in the world makes wrenches that fit a triangle head?
Better call America and order some.

Now ofcourse this is only an example of proactive thinking.
Yet American indusrties are more reactive just like the government.
To be more proactive, we need to think about the long term and short term alike in business.
Wage expences, and operating costs are factors. Now how do we go about operating with lower budgets? We need to make things more affordable. Green Energy production to run businesses should have been one of the things the stimulus covered. If businesses aren't paying utilities, your giving them greater capital. Investing into new technologies that will help the planet. Always a winner for producing more jobs. America could be a leader in this if we applied more of our resouces toward other things besides oil.

Literally hundreds of different things could have been done with the money we were given.
Yet Obama, more or less followed examples of others and now we don't have these options available because his administration decided that insurance companies and the federal reserve knew how to best use this money?
LOL

I have to ask this of you Q.
What improvements has his tour of duty accomplished thus far?
What can we rely on for a change for the better?

He can talk the talk, but can he walk the walk?
Will he save this country?
I'll personally write him a letter apologizing to him directly if he can.
However, until that happens. I don't trust him any more or less then I did Bush or any president since JFK.
Atleast JFK confessed that a NWO does exist and that they are the enemy. No president since has had the balls to do that. Plus we went to the moon under his administration. When are we going back?







Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2009, 10:36:03 am
Quote
Bush atleast did his dirt in our faces and then more or less gave us the finger when we questioned it.

Oh - well - I guess if he did his dirt in your face and he gave you the finger, it was ok then.  I guess it's just that if he'd done it behind your backs, you might have raised the roof in protest.


Quote
They were wrong about the unemployment rate getting smaller once the stimulus was passed.

Would that be because the companies that got the money gave it to their CEO's for a fun holiday?  That wasn't the deal.  It was the companies that received the money that mis-spent it.  My PERSONAL belief, is that the strategy should have been totally different.  The economy SHOULD have been allowed to collapse.  Because then everyone, would be on a level playing field.  Since everyone needs to think green, there would then be new developments in ways to go green.  America would have rose from the ashes of collapse because when everyone is in need, everyone has a better attitude and they all work together.  I feel this will still happen.  It will have nothing to do with the president.  He can only do so much.  It's the greed that rules big corporate America right now, but when the economy tumbles, those people lose the same as the ordinary man on the street.  

If the economy had been allowed to collapse, President Obama could then have introduced incentive plans.  Plans like what you've mentioned, to manufacture "green".  Perhaps a different, improved finance system, where people are not allowed to be so far in debt.  Lots of new strategies could have been incorporated for the betterment of the country and the economy would keep rolling on.

The whole question for President Obama when he took office, was so severe he basically had to make a fast decision for temporary relief.  The people he gave it to, screwed it up.  When he was campaigning he said he hoped that each State would get on board with plans to repair their infrastructures, to employ people.  What did I just read the other day?  Mississippi or Misouri (can't remember which state) is going back to gravel roads.  In today's times, there are more people living in any one given country than say 50 years ago, so how come they could afford to build all those roads back then with fewer people paying taxes, and we can't maintan them with more people paying taxes?  I think there should be ceilings on  prices of a lot of things so repairs are affordable.  

America can't afford to borrow any more money.  That's the problem.  You're already in debt up to your ying-yang and can't pay it back.

Personally - I'd kill the S.O.B. who made a triangle nut!!!  I was totally ticked when they came out with Torx!!

The President's tour of duty is a learning curve.  He's only one person, he can't know everything.  But he CAN go out on a tour of duty and personally flnd out what the rest of the world is thinking and feeling instead of hearing it second hand, and since most countries in the world DO respect him, they will at least stop and listen.  The times we are in are way different that any other time in history.  I don't think any other president had such a terrible situation to face the very day he was sworn in.  And as has been said before, he cannot make policy.  He can say what he feels should be done, but it needs to be passed before it can be implemented.  If the majority thinks it's a good idea, well then, that means they've hashed it out, discussed the pros and cons, and couldn't come up with anything better.

Quote
What can we rely on for a change for the better?

Yourselves.  When the campaign was on, I signed up to receive announcements from the Obama campaign.  I'm still getting them.  In these announcements, they say what the president has been doing, and what the party hopes they can achieve etc.  You can give feed back, saying if you agree, or if you have a different or better idea, you can send it in.  I think there is actually a site somewhere where the people can write in and give their opinions on issues.  Just google President Obama and see what you can find.  SAY WHAT YOU THINK and don't be nasty about it.  He can't know what the public wants if you don't tell him.

Quote
Will he save this country?

From what? The greedy people who make up the citizens of his country?  He cannot save it from the financial disaster it's in - no.  It's too late and those that were supposed to be on board with the plan to help the people, sucked up the money.  So why should he even TRY to save the economy now?  Let it fall, then re-build on a different model.  Maybe HFN can convince the people they don't need money.  The barter system is only good in a society where the the young and old are loved and cared for equally.  In my town there is a very disabled person who lives on a mobile gurney.  The only moveable parts of his body are in his head - like his eyes and tongue.  He manipulates the gurney with his tongue, but of course is very limited as to where he can go.  His care person takes him out, but has to be with him constantly.  What does he have to barter that he could gain food and the price of a care person?  He is without doubt, on welfare.  So if there is no plan in place in this barter system for such people, then what?  



Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 11:57:09 am
 ::)

Say what you will. However I am not personally going to rely on Obama to change America for the better.
That's that Q.
You can protest on his behalf al you want. However, Millions of "Americans" are seeing that the crisis here is worse then they are telling us. And literally hundreds of thousands of people "HERE" in this country feel exactly the same way I do......

Quote
Quote
Bush atleast did his dirt in our faces and then more or less gave us the finger when we questioned it.

Oh - well - I guess if he did his dirt in your face and he gave you the finger, it was ok then.  I guess it's just that if he'd done it behind your backs, you might have raised the roof in protest.



I did raise the roof in protest over Bush.  ;)
Chow


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 12:02:29 pm
No offence to Canadian people intended. Canadian politics aren't all their cracked up to be.
Maybe you should take note of the mess in your own yard my dear.
 :-X


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 16, 2009, 12:06:08 pm
Welcome new members from Yeswecanests HQ.Here is avatar for you.  ;)


                                                                                           (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3337/avataryym.jpg) (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/avataryym.jpg/)


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2009, 12:52:29 pm
I'm fully aware of the mess in my own back yard and have been invovled in trying to change it. 

Millions of Americans are seeing that the crises is worse than they thought, because finally it is affecting more people than it did before.  If people were involved in what was going on, they'd know how bad it is.  They don't usually notice it until it effects them.  Obama cannot fix the state of the world.  He's not a magician and people shouldn't be expecting him to change the world.  But he's sure trying hard to fix the things he can.  As I said, if people want things to change, they have to get up and help, not just sit there and say the government owes them.  They owe it to themselves to supervise what their elected officials are doing.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2009, 02:01:41 pm
I think this is one thing that should be implemented in both countries.

The Urine Test

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to earn that pay cheque, I work on a rig site for a construction project. I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem.

What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them?

Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their ass drinking beer and smoking dope.

Could you imagine how much money  would be saved if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance cheque?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 05:23:03 pm
I'm fully aware of the mess in my own back yard and have been invovled in trying to change it. 

Millions of Americans are seeing that the crises is worse than they thought, because finally it is affecting more people than it did before.  If people were involved in what was going on, they'd know how bad it is.  They don't usually notice it until it effects them.  Obama cannot fix the state of the world.  He's not a magician and people shouldn't be expecting him to change the world.  But he's sure trying hard to fix the things he can.  As I said, if people want things to change, they have to get up and help, not just sit there and say the government owes them.  They owe it to themselves to supervise what their elected officials are doing.



Ok but I have said almost the same things with the exception of supporting government.
All along I have stated that we are the problem and we need to fix ourselves and help others do the same for the sake of the whole of "Mankind".
Yet you have been fighting me on this. Q- I don't dislike Obama personally. His personality is charming. Not to mention the guy has got a way with words. Yet;
I just don't trust him or any other politician because this is what our recent and even not so recent history teaches us. More then anyone else I know personally, I love what this country used to stand for and what it used to mean to be an American. As time went on I began to notice that every great kingdom on Earth falls. This is because of some mistake or corruption that dictated it's course.

Now even if Obama is not entirely responsible for the actions of the rest of this kingdom.
He is obligated by his own words to tell the truth because that is change.
As a leader, a husband, and a father he should be looking for a way to disclose what American odds are of pulling through all of this no matter what happens after. If I was in his position, the truth about everything in this country would be adressed and publically disclosed.
I would have pulled those poor kids out of Iraq so they can atleast see what is left of this country with their families. Plus I would do everything in my power to make good on every word I spoke instead of putting on a fake smile and telling people what I think they would want to hear. If I didn't have some proof that an idea would work I would tell my people it's risky folks. This is why it is. Vote on it for yourselves, and we will go with what the majority feels is right.

I would also have the federal reserve and IRS disband for good measure.
These are not the changes I'm seeing. I am one who can not vote for someone I don't agree with. Nor can I support a country that didn't involve the word of it's people in these decisions that have transformed this poor country into what it is today. I support the people who live in poverty, and are suffering the worst as a result of what has happened. I support the meek.
I support those who get out of bed and work for next to nothing so his/her families can atleast eat and keep a roof over their heads barely. These are what I came from, just like Obama says he did.
Yet he bends over backwards to assist wall street?



In my eyes Q- A leader is defined not by what he speaks. He is defined by what he does.
Until my eyes see changes that are for the good of all and not just some. I will not and can not support him or anything that has to do with the politics in which he is involved in.
I will support those who smile regaurdless of what adversity they face daily who continue in strife to live on and make changes in their own lives and those of others.

Leaders teach others to lead.
Who is becoming leaders under the Obama administration?
The Chinese Government? The Russians?

No pun toward you Q- yet worldly influences inspire you more then what is in your heart old friend.  :-\ I guess we can't agree on really anything because we are obviously not on the same side if you think that the answers to all of this are going to be found by any power outside of what is in our own hearts.

Unless we consider how much more we have then others even now, and learn to share those things with these others. Unless we are willing to commit to changing things on our own without relying on governments to do it. Unless we are willing to finally take the fate of All humankind into the hands of it's own being and embrace truth and complete autonomy.

Nothing Obama or anyone else does is going to help the current situation.
America could be a self-sustaining mechanism that would endure. For that matter the world can!
We just have to come to terms that material wealth is what is haulting these things and moving beyond them. It's the reason we are having these discussions even now. It's why power is so important to those few who have taken over the world. It's also why we live like kings compared to those in 3rd world countries as we call them and these people suffer.

The world sees making more money as the answer to all these things.
Including Obama! I say that money is the reason for all these problems because of how it was abused.




Does anyone see where this is going?


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2009, 07:04:57 pm
Let me first of all say that "The Urine Test" was written by a fellow who works on the rigs in norther Alberta.  Those were his words not mine, but I certainly agree with him.

Let me also take this where you don't want it to go because there are many possible outcomes to what you suggest. 

I think first of all, that for what you want to happen, there can be no religion.  There can be spirituality, a belief in something greater, a belief in a higher self, but there can be no "God" as we term it today - or as religions classify it.  Because we are already fighting over whose God is right and whose God is wrong, when in fact there is supposedly only one God.  However, we invoke him to help us when we're competeing, even when we are fighting, and both sides invoke him as though he would play favorites.  We bestow human qualities on an entity we really know nothing about.

Secondly, let's just say we do away with the monetary system.   Can you give us a step by step break down of how this will work?

Let's say for instance, my husband goes to work tomorrow and they tell him that for his services for this month, they will supply him with some meat, some potatoes, some bread, maybe some jam, peanut butter, coffee, sugar and milk.  How do we go about getting the rest of the necessities of life?  What do we trade for our rent?  For our medicines?  For fuel for the car so he can get to work?  There are so many things we need to survive that we couldn't possibly do enough things to "trade" for all of it.  Especially workers that are skilled say in nursing.  They know the one trade only, so how do they go about using that skill to trade for everything they need?

I'm sorry HFN if we disagree, (which is ok too) but what you say doesn't make sense for this modern time.  If we still lived in tribes, and the tribes could trade with each other - like say we had buffalo meat we could trade for fish and salt to get something different into our diet, it would work, but not with as many people as there are in the world today.  The monetary system was developed so that people COULD travel from place to place and have something that was of equal value wherever they went.  Gold. 

Or - lets look at the way the hippies wanted to do things.  Live in communes where everyone is equal.  Everyone does the things they want to do, and everyone shares in the results.  Trouble is, there is always those who give more than others and there is always those who take more than others and then the fighting starts.  Back to square one.

If there is any system that would work, it would be tedious, because it would be a system where EVERYTHING is put to a referendum.  (We'd be spending all our time in the voting booths)! There would of course be basic rules and regulations that are standard.  Say someone is caught stealing, there is a standard punishment.  None of this business that he had a tough childhood, or his mother dressed him funny or his dad called him Sue.  If he stole, he gets the punishment.  Standard law.  There's too many words in policies today, creating loopholes that are usually used to avoid punishment or the taking of responsibility.  Things need to be kept simple.
You are absolutely right when you say we have to look at what we have and share with others, although when President Obama says those things, he gets another label stuck on him - socialist.

Moving beyond material weath as you call it, would basically mean training like the Tibetan monks do, which just might be a good thing.  It would be in my mind anyway. 


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 16, 2009, 07:35:04 pm
Is this truth?



                                  http://crazymotion.net/american-are-going-to-be-rounded-up-part-1/wG-ipodmtIj0jAy.html


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 08:14:34 pm
Is this truth?



                                  http://crazymotion.net/american-are-going-to-be-rounded-up-part-1/wG-ipodmtIj0jAy.html

Damn that was a good post.
Thank you so much for that.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: HereForNow on June 16, 2009, 08:18:47 pm
Quote
Moving beyond material weath as you call it, would basically mean training like the Tibetan monks do, which just might be a good thing.  It would be in my mind anyway. 

Plus they aren't exchanging money......
 ;)


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Qoais on June 16, 2009, 09:00:54 pm
Trouble is, the monks depend a lot on donations.

What the woman said in the video is true.  Canada and the US are being undermined in a big way.  The small family farm cannot make a go of it anymore, so farmers are quitting by the thousands and the land has been bought up by big Cartels or by a few rich farmers who spend the summers here in Canada, and the winters in Arizona and Florida. 

It has come to pass that there really are, too many people.  And those too many people want too many things.  The standard of living will have to fall before it can go up, but remember what goes up, must come down, so this cycle will repeat itself.

What the woman in the video says, has already happened.  How does a nation change that and bring back "the good old days"? No one wants to physically work anymore.  Mostly they just want to be on the computer.  Or their cell phones.  So - maybe communism will have to be the way for a while.  Everyone gets treated equally, everyone has to contribute, there's no argument about who the leader is, and everyone lives happily ever after.  Maybe then, our expectations will get back in line with reality.

You see, in Canada, we know that whatever the States does, we follow along shortly thereafter.  So if your economy really tanks, ours does also.  If you go to war, we go to war.  Basically, we're just a secondary "state" to you.  We may not be governed by you, but we're ruled by you.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 16, 2009, 09:02:46 pm
Is this truth?



                                  http://crazymotion.net/american-are-going-to-be-rounded-up-part-1/wG-ipodmtIj0jAy.html

Damn that was a good post.
Thank you so much for that.

Just (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2774/digg.jpg) (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/digg.jpg/) under NWO (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9307/columns.jpg) (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/columns.jpg/) hoping it will fall.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Harconen on June 17, 2009, 09:52:37 am
                                                 (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8794/newworldorder.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/newworldorder.jpg/)
           

                                                          America By 2012: 10 Dire Predictions


If this doesn’t make you think–make you want to prepare–I don’t know what will. From “Big Jake” on SeekingAlpha, “The Worst Case Scenario (Someone Has to Say It)” [edited for length]

Since the economy began sliding downhill in late 2007, mainstream economic and market experts have consistently erred on the sunny side.

As late as June 2008, mainstream consensus held that the U.S. was heading for a “soft landing” and would avoid recession.

Several months later, the slump was acknowledged to have started in January 2008, but we were supposed to see renewed growth by mid-2009, with unemployment peaking in the eight-to-nine percent range. A quick “shovel-ready” stimulus bag was supposed to set us back on the road to prosperity.

In January, recovery projections were pushed forward to late 2009. Today, the consensus is for a mid-2010 recovery, with unemployment peaking at just over 10 percent. Clearly, the mainstream has struggled to catch up to reality for well over one year. What are the chances that they finally have it right this time?

In the interests of providing you with an alternate vision—something outside the mainstream—below are ten predictions for America through the year 2012. This is not boilerplate doom-saying. Rather, I am laying out in highly specific terms what will happen over the next three-odd years. Others have thrown around the term “Depression”, but I am going to tell you precisely what it means for you, your investments, and your community.

Prediction one.
The twenty-five-year equities bubble pops in 2009: the S&P 500 will sink below 500. In a bid to stem the panic, the government will enforce periodic “stock market holidays”, and will vastly expand the scope of its short-selling prohibitions—eventually banning short-selling altogether.

Prediction two.
With public pension systems and tens of millions of 401k holders virtually wiped out—and with the Baby Boomers retiring en masse—there will be tremendous pressure on the government to get into the stock market in order to bid up prices.

Therefore, sometime in 2010, the Federal Reserve will create and loan out hundreds of billions of fresh dollars to the usual well-connected suspects, instructing them to buy up stocks on the public’s behalf. This scheme will have a fancy but meaningless name—something like the “Taxpayer Assurance Equities Facility”. It will have no effect other than to serve as buyer of last resort for capitulating smart-money types who want to get out of stocks entirely.

Prediction three.
Millions of new retirees—including white-collar people with high expectations for a Golden Retirement—will be left virtually penniless. Thousands will starve or freeze to death in their own homes. Hundreds of thousands will find themselves evicted and homeless, or will have to move in with their less-than-enthusiastic children. Already strained by the rising tide of the working-age unemployed, state and local welfare services will be overwhelmed, and by 2012 will have largely collapsed and ceased to function in many parts of the country.

Prediction four.
“Quantitative easing” will fail to restart previous patterns of lending and consumption. As the government sends out additional “rebate” checks and takes ever-more drastic measures to force banks to lend, hyperinflation could take hold. However, comprehensive debt relief via a devaluation of the dollar is even more likely. This would entail the government issuing one “new” dollar for some greater number of “old” dollars—thus reducing both debts and savings simultaneously.

Prediction five.
The government will stop pretending that it can finance continuous multi-trillion-dollar deficits on the private market. By late 2010, the sole buyers of new U.S. Treasury and agency bonds will be the Federal Reserve and a few derelict financial institutions under government control. This may or may not lead to hyperinflation. (See prediction four).

Prediction six.
The government’s narrow unemployment figure (U3) will rise into the high teens by late 2010. The government’s broader unemployment figure (U6) will cease to be reported when it reaches 25 percent—it will simply be too embarrassing. Ultimately, one in three work-eligible Americans will be unemployed, underemployed, or never-employed (e.g. college grads permanently unable to find suitable work).

Prediction seven.
With their pension dreams squashed, and their salaries frozen or cut, police and other local government workers will turn to wholesale corruption in order to survive. America’s ideal of honest, courteous, and impartial cops, teachers, and small-time local functionaries will have come to an end.

Prediction eight.
Commercial overcapacity will strike with a vengeance. By 2012, thousands of enclosed malls, strip malls, unfinished residential developments, motels, truck stops, distribution centers, middle-of-nowhere resorts and casinos, and small-city airports across America will turn into dilapidated, unwanted, and dangerous ghost towns. With no economic incentive for their maintenance or repair, they will crumble into overgrown, plywood-and-sheet-rock ruins.

Prediction nine.
By the end of 2010, tens of millions of households will have fallen behind on their mortgages or stopped paying altogether. Many banks will be unable to process the massive volume of foreclosure paperwork, much less actually seize and resell the homes.

Devaluation (as mentioned in prediction four) could ease the situation for those mortgage holders still afloat, but it would also eliminate any incentive for most banks to stay in the mortgage business. In any case, the housing market in many parts of the country will lock up completely—nothing bought or sold.

With virtually no loans being made, even the government will finally acknowledge that most banks are fundamentally insolvent. A general bank run will only be averted through a roughly one trillion-dollar recapitalization of the FDIC, courtesy of new money from the Federal Reserve.

Prediction ten.
As an economy is never independent of the society within which it functions, the next few paragraphs will focus on social and political factors. These factors will have as much of an impact on market and consumer confidence as any developments in the financial sector.

Whether rightly or not, President Obama, having come to power at the dawn of this crisis, will be blamed for it by over 50 percent of the population. He will be a one-term president. In response to his perceived socialization of America, there will be a swarm of secessionist and extremist activity, much of it violent. Militias and armed sects will be more prominent than in the early 1990s. Stand-off dramas, violent score-settlings, and going-out-with-a-bang attacks by laid-off workers and bankrupted investors—already a national plague—will become an everyday occurrence.

For both economic and social reasons, millions of immigrants and guest workers will return to their home countries, taking their assets and skills with them. The flow of skilled immigrants will slow to a trickle. Birth rates will plummet as families struggle with uncertainty and reduced (or no) income.

Property crime will explode as citizens bitter over their own shattered dreams attempt to comfort themselves by taking what is not theirs. Mutinies and desertions will proliferate in an increasingly demoralized, over-stretched military, especially when states can no longer provide the educational and other benefits promised to their National Guard troops.

There will be widespread tax collection issues, and a huge backlash against Federal and state bureaucrats who demand three-percent annual pay raises while private sector wages remain frozen or worse. In short, the “Tea Parties” of tomorrow will likely not be so restrained.

Finally, between now and 2012, we are likely to see another earth-shaking national embarrassment on the scale of the 9/11 attacks or Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. This will demonstrate conclusively to all Americans that their government, even under a savior-figure like Obama, cannot, in fact, save them.

By 2012, there will be a general feeling that the nation is in immediate danger of blowing up or coming apart at the seams. This fear will be justified, given that the U.S. has always been held together by the promise of a continuously rising material standard of living—the famous “pursuit of happiness”—rather than any ethnic or religious ties. If that goes, so could everything else. We were lucky in the 1930s—we may not be so lucky again.



Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: foreground on December 27, 2011, 10:41:08 pm
I know this is really late but I just registered here and started reading this thread and I noticed the link to the Obama Deception on the first page and I just wanted to post this: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/alex-jones/the-obama-deception/

It's worth a read, I think.


Title: Re: Talk or act...To be or not to be, question is now?
Post by: Volitzer on January 09, 2012, 02:21:53 pm
Troll !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!       ::)