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Past Events => Campaign 2008 => Topic started by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 10:49:50 pm



Title: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 10:49:50 pm
CNN INSTANT DEBATE ANALYSIS...
Biden Dominates Among Undecideds


(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/387/slide_387_10361_large.jpg)

VIDEO... DEBATE BLOG...
Biden: "How Different Is John McCain's Policy Going To Be Than George Bush's?".... Palin: I May Not "Answer The Questions The Way You Or The Moderator Want"... Biden Chokes Up While Talking About His Family... Palin: "How Long Have I Been At This? Like Five Weeks?"... Biden: McCain-Palin Health Care Plan "The Ultimate Bridge To Nowhere"... Palin Gets Afghan Commander's Name, Strategy Wrong...


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 10:56:00 pm
Sam Stein stein@huffingtonpost.com | HuffPost Reporting From DC Become a Fan Get Who Won The Debate? Reviews Tilt Heavily To Biden

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41720/thumbs/s-BIDEN-large.jpg)

During the course of the debate, CNN was running a viewer response line for uncommitted voters in Ohio. Overall the numbers reflected a very strong performance for Biden. And while Palin scored well, at times, among this crowd, the dial lines indicated that she remains a controversial figure among females in that state.

Biden repeatedly won high accolades on a wide range of topics. His remarks about the personal trials of having a wife and daughter die in a car accident sent responses from both male and females through the roof. His dig at Dick Cheney -- "the most dangerous Vice President in history" -- and his pledge to end the war in Iraq were similarly popular. When he defended Obama from Palin's attacks, he was held in equally high regard.

Much of the time, dial responses sunk when Palin began speaking. Respondents were generally unenthusiastic when she defended McCain. Her defense of the surge generated what was, at best, a flat response. She did have some high moments -- her final statement, her defense of Israel and her call to explore off shore drilling were all popular positions.

Following the debate, only one member of the focus group said they had decided to support the McCain-Palin ticket based on the debate; a half-dozen or more said they would now back Obama and Biden.

On the other hand, Frank Luntz just quizzed his focus group on FOX (which was, strangely enough, sponsored by Budweiser, owned by Anheuser-Busch, of which Cindy McCain's Hensley company is the third largest distributor). Nearly all of them thought Palin did an excellent job and, perhaps, won the debate. When she talked about responsibility -- both on Wall Street and in Washington - the dial numbers went extremely high. Many respondents, meanwhile, said she came off as a "regular American." However, only three respondents in the group said they had moved towards voting for the McCain-Palin ticket.

CBS Focus Group: Biden Wins Early numbers from a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters give Biden a significant edge: 46 percent say he won compared to 21 percent for Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

More details:

Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn't changed.

After the debate, 66 percent see Palin as knowledgeable about important issues - up from 43 percent before the debate. But Biden still has the advantage on this - 98 percent saw him as knowledgeable after the debate. That figure was 79 percent before the debate.



Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 10:56:41 pm
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41708/thumbs/r-PALIN-WINK-medium260.jpg)

WATCH: Sarah Palin Winks At America


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 11:03:17 pm
Sam Stein stein@huffingtonpost.com
Ex-Bush Officials: Biden Won The Debate

 
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41725/thumbs/s-BIDEN-large.jpg)


The consensus from the debate seems to be that while Sarah Palin exceeded the exceedingly low expectations set for her, Joe Biden won the night. The word comes from former members of the Bush administration and even John McCain's former press secretary.

Torie Clarke, who worked with McCain back in Arizona and with the Bush Administration's Department of Defense, had the following remarks on ABC:

"I'm so surprised at what we are talking about before and after the debate. Before the debate the speculation was all on Sarah Palin, how well can she do, can she answer the tough questions? Nobody was paying attention to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden had his best night tonight. He came with one mission, and that was to go after John McCain, and he did it, backed up by facts. I think he did a better job tonight of tying McCain to the Bush administration than Obama did last week.

Matthew Dowd, who worked for George Bush's communications team while in the White House, followed Clarke and he too agreed that the Delaware Democrat took the evening.

"I think, you know, I agree with her on this. I think Sarah Palin did reasonably well. The death spiral she has been on for the last week, she survived. She's lived another day. She did well. But I think, when the polls come out in the next two, three days, Joe Biden won this debate."



Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Kris Conover on October 02, 2008, 11:06:20 pm
Jason Linkins jason@huffingtonpost.com
Biden Lowers Boom On McCain: Not A Maverick
October 2, 2008 10:52 PM




Presented with the contention that John McCain represented a set of "maverick" possibilities in governance, Senator Joe Biden offered up a spirited and lengthy rebuttal, citing numerous examples from McCain's voting record that cast the Arizona Senator in a decidedly different light.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/biden-lowers-boom-on-mcca_n_131456.html



Biden: Can I respond to that? Look, let's talk about the maverick John McCain is. And again I love him, he's been a maverick on some issues but he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives. He voted four out of five times for George Bush's budget which put us half a trillion in debt this year and over three trillion in debt since he got there. He has not been a maverick in providing health care for people. He voted against including another 3.6 million children in coverage of an existing health care plan in the United States Senate. He's not been a maverick when it comes to education. He has not supported tax cuts and significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college, he's not been a maverick on the war, not been a maverick on virtually anything that generally affects the things people really talk about around the kitchen table. Can we get mom's MRI? Can we send Mary back to school next semester? We can't make it. How will we heat the house this winter? He even voted against what they call LIHEAP, for assistance for people with oil prices going through the roof in the winter. So a maverick he is not, on the important critical issues that affect people at the kitchen table.


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Eclipse of the Sun on October 03, 2008, 08:44:44 am
What was with all the winking?


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Janilee Wolff on October 03, 2008, 11:02:31 am
THE VERDICT
GOP Strategist: Palin's Performance Will "Help Stop The Bleeding... It Won't Change The Trend Line"...
CNN: Biden Dominated Among Undecideds... CBS Focus Group: Biden Won


(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41759/thumbs/r-TVDEBATE-huge.jpg)

VIDEO... DEBATE BLOG...
MORE REACTION... Bob Shrum: "She Barely Kept Up"... "McCain Lost the VP Debate Too"... Madeleine Albright: "Biden's Night... We Need A VP Who Can Be Persuasive With Foreign Leaders"... Arianna Huffington: Palin Showed She'll Be "Even More Dangerous than Cheney".. Leah McElrath Renna: "Biden's Tears Did More For The Equality Of The Sexes Than Palin's Presence"... Nora Ephron: Not The "Exciting Blood Bath We Were Hoping For"... Adam McKay: Biden Was "Masterful"... Paul Reiser: "Hey, She Didn't Stink Up The Joint"...

DEBATE HIGHLIGHTS... Palin: I May Not "Answer The Questions The Way You Or The Moderator Want"... Palin: "How Long Have I Been At This? Like Five Weeks?"... Biden: McCain-Palin Health Plan "The Ultimate Bridge To Nowhere"... Palin's "White Flag Of Surrender" Line Falls Flat...
HuffPost's BigNews Pages: VP Debate... Sarah Palin... Joe Biden


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Janilee Wolff on October 03, 2008, 11:03:35 am
Below is a collection of reactions to Thursday night's vice presidential debate between Governor Sarah Palin and Senator Joe Biden. For HuffPost bloggers reactions - including Bob Shrum, Madeleine Albright, Nora Ephron, and more - go here. And for analysis and video generated during the debate, please go here.

The New York Times: "not a tipping point for the embattled Republican presidential ticket":

It was not a tipping point for the embattled Republican presidential ticket, the bad night that many Republicans had feared. But neither did it constitute the turning point the McCain campaign was looking for after a stretch of several weeks in which Senator Barack Obama seemed to be gaining the upper hand in the race. Even if he no longer has to be on the defensive about Ms. Palin, Mr. McCain still faces a tough environment with barely a month until the election, as he acknowledged hours before the debate by effectively pulling his campaign out of Michigan, a Democratic state where Mr. McCain's advisers had once been optimistic of victory.

"This is going to help stop the bleeding," said Todd Harris, a Republican consultant who worked for Mr. McCain in his first presidential campaign. "But this alone won't change the trend line, particularly in some of the battleground states."


Wall Street Journal: Palin held "her own against her senior vice-presidential rival":

A confident, folksy Sarah Palin attacked the Democratic presidential ticket on taxes and partisanship, holding her own against her senior vice-presidential rival. Joe Biden, assiduously avoiding any direct attacks on his opponent, kept his focus trained on the top of the ticket, charging again and again that Palin's partner, John McCain, wants to give tax breaks to the rich and deregulate the economy.

Asked about the economy, Palin suggested talking to a parent at a soccer game. "I'll betcha you're going to hear some fear in that parent's voice," she said. Asked who was to blame for the subprime lending crisis, she said, "Darn right it was the predator lenders."


The Washington Post: "One debate will not erase doubts that have been building about Palin's capacity to serve as vice president":

One debate will not erase doubts that have been building about Palin's capacity to serve as vice president, but the effect of the encounter may shift the focus away from the sideshow that Palin has become and put it back on the two presidential nominees and what they would do for the country. Thursday's debate adds to the importance of the two remaining presidential debates, the first of which will be held Tuesday.

Palin produced at a moment McCain needed it most. In the past two weeks, his standing has deteriorated as the focus of national attention has shifted almost entirely to the economy. National and state polls show Obama gaining ground, and the preface to the debate Thursday was the news that McCain is pulling out of Michigan, once seen as a potential pickup.



The Politico's Roger Simon: "You betcha Sarah Palin can debate":

But if people thought she was going to look like a dumb bunny for 90 minutes, they were disappointed. She said what she wanted to say, and she was so relaxed she even winked at one point. Really! An actual wink during a national debate, when she said she was going to try to get John McCain to change his mind about not drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Story continues below 


Do people care about such stuff? Should all that down-home talk and body language really count? Joe Biden doesn't think so.


AP: "Americans watching the vice presidential candidates' debate agreed that Gov. Sarah Palin's performance exceeded their generally low expectations"

From a bowling alley called the Lucky Strike in Miami Beach to a smoky barroom in Wasilla, Alaska, many Americans watching the vice presidential candidates' debate agreed that Gov. Sarah Palin's performance exceeded their generally low expectations. Whether she did well enough against Sen. Joe Biden is another matter.

Brian Elias, co-owner of the Lucky Strike, had to give Palin her props.

"I thought she held her own. I'm much more impressed than I thought I'd be," said Elias, 45, who is a registered Republican but doesn't know whom he'll vote for. "My expectation was that her performance would make it easier for me to pick Obama, but her performance kept me undecided."

But others in the crowd of more than 100 watching CNN coverage saw it differently.

"She's the queen of generalities," 27-year-old Tami Toussaint, a law school graduate who is currently unemployed, said of Palin. "I don't think she's a dumb person, I just think she's out of her league."



Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Janilee Wolff on October 03, 2008, 11:05:24 am
Nora Ephron
Posted October 3, 2008 | 12:45 AM (EST)
The Graph and I


I tried to watch the vice presidential debate tonight but it wasn't easy. This was because I was forced to watch it on CNN. I happen to be an MSNBC junkie -- but the TV set was already tuned to CNN so that was pretty much that.

This was the first time I've watched a debate on CNN, and it turns out to have this graph running along the bottom of the screen, a graph that allegedly represents the moment-by-moment feelings of a group of supposedly independent voters in Columbus, Ohio, who sit, with some sort of electronic devices, and register their warmth or cool as the debate goes on.

Well, this is no way to watch a debate. It reminded me of this thing that's happened in New York City, which is that all restaurants with more than fourteen locations have to put on the menu the calorie count of each food item. This is an appalling development. It's hard enough to figure out what you want to order without someone explicitly telling you that you're going to drop dead if you eat it. But more important, I don't believe those calorie counts. Who knows how many calories there are in a grilled cheese sandwich? No one, that's who. But there it is, on the menu, in a grim black and white parenthetical, and it affects you, you can't help it, and as a result you end up not ordering the thing you wanted and instead ordering some stupid bowl of soup that barely gets you through till three in the afternoon.

Well this graph on CNN affected me, it affected me so much that I could barely focus on the debate, I was so busy watching the graph. I knew it was completely unreliable and irrelevant, and yet my heart sank and rose according to it. I sort of heard what the candidates were saying, but mostly I watched the orange (for women) and green (for men) lines rise and fall as each phrase was uttered. When Sarah Palin spoke and the lines went up, I felt irritable. When Joe Biden spoke and the lines went up, I felt happy. Don't get me started on Gwen Ifill.

Every so often Sarah Palin would say things like "darn right" and "bless their hearts" and "you betcha" and I noticed that the people in Columbus were unmoved by Palin's folksy expressions, at least according to the graph; this gave me faith in America. But then I reminded myself that the graph was probably as unreliable as the calorie count that caused me not to order what I really wanted to eat for lunch.

When the debate was over, we were all sad to realize that it had not been the exciting blood bath we were hoping for (I mean, let's admit it) but thrilled to hear that Biden was the winner. So I came home and celebrated: I had a grilled cheese sandwich (530 calories) (not really).

Read more reactions to the Biden-Palin Vice Presidential debate from HuffPost bloggers

Vice President
Vice Presidential Debate
Sarah Palin
Joe Biden
I tried to watch the vice presidential debate tonight but it wasn't easy. This was because I was forced to watch it on CNN. I happen to be an MSNBC junkie -- but the TV set was already tuned to CNN...
I tried to watch the vice presidential debate tonight but it wasn't easy. This was because I was forced to watch it on CNN. I happen to be an MSNBC junkie -- but the TV set was already tuned to CNN...


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Volitzer on October 03, 2008, 11:44:52 am
Yeah no Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party present.  What a farce !!!  Talk about Bilderberg fluff.   >:( >:( >:(   

 ::)


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Echelon Monitor on October 03, 2008, 03:10:36 pm
Palin performed like a caricature, with her folky manner, broken English and all the winking. She really gets more annoying the more you see her.  In her, the Republicans have found a perfect female version of George Bush:  the perfect frontman to pitch their bs policies.


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Volitzer on October 04, 2008, 12:30:49 pm
Yeah Bush was a cheerleader and Palin a pageant queen.

Can we not see a pattern here ??

Question is just how long will Americans continue to have their intelligence insulted.   :-X


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Keith Ranville on October 04, 2008, 01:57:17 pm
Sarah Palin winking, that reminds me of a used car salesman that sold me a lemon, stupid for me for not asking for questions not answered to me..  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) anyone want to buy some Alaskan ice cubes?   


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Volitzer on October 06, 2008, 03:19:55 pm
Obama and his wife are CFR along with Biden.

This wasn't a debate it was a public spectacle.   ::)


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Jenna Bluehut on October 06, 2008, 08:41:09 pm
Palin is simply a gimmick to get Hillary supporters to vote for him, he thinks that women are stupid and don't vote on the issues!


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Keith Ranville on October 06, 2008, 08:58:39 pm
Sarah Palin is nothing more than a SNL distraction (joke) and look how the Mcbush team is trying to change the subject about the severe ailing economy. These are very serious times for everyone, and the Republicans are reverting to desperate swift voting. They gotten away with it twice in with two democratic politicians in the past. I am glad Obama has the the sense to react to McCains childish shenanigans off the hop.   

Bush is so unpopular and linking McCain to him is the best stragity for the Democrats, Bush disapproval rating is pare to Watergate president and getting worse. 


Title: Re: VP Debate: Biden vs. Palin
Post by: Volitzer on October 08, 2008, 12:15:26 pm
If Americans don't make the Bilderberg connection with both the Democrat and Republican parties then America is truly screwed.