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Science & Technology => Evolution vs. Intelligent Design => Topic started by: Rebecca on September 03, 2008, 01:31:55 pm



Title: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 03, 2008, 01:31:55 pm
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/If_people_evolved_from_apes_why_are_there_still_apes

If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?


Answer
The human race evolved from an "ape like" species, but a species only evolves to help it in its survival. The apes' ancestors could survive being an ape so they didn't continue to evolve, whereas our ancestors kept evolving to help them stay alive. Survival of the fittest is what drives evolution, and our ancestors just happened to "need" evolution more than the apes.


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I don't believe people evolved from apes. Humans and the ape family have similarities and that is where it ends. I believe all creatures were created by a wonderful God. If things evolved from other creatures as evolution says, why then are there such vast differences within the kingdoms. Mammals have vast differences---including whales--which are mammals and not of a fish family---yet has similarities to fish. Evolution just doesn't seem to have answers to those questions. God created humans for His pleasure and for a relationship with Him.


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apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor. this ancestor split up and evolved into different species, one became erect and the other continued as it was


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It's simple really, we didn't evolve from apes, monkeys, one celled organism, or anything of that nature. In Genesis 1:1, "In the BEGINNING, GOD created the Heavens and the earth. In Genesis 1:26, it states, "And GOD said, Let us make man in our image..." "And in 1 Corintheans 15:39 it says that all flesh is not the same flesh:but there is one kind of flesh of men,another flesh of beast another of fishes and another of birds" So when you study this text or know what this means then you will see why it sounds soo ridiculous to even say that we came from monkeys.

You see, we were created in the likeness of our Almighty GOD... No, we aren't gods, we were blessed by creation.


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man and ape are different. man is exposed to all kinds of enviroments that makes us different . for example- if we live in the constant cold our bodies would grow hair and the offspring would inherit the same genetics. some people live in different parts of the world and have different appearences but are still human. man got smarter because of experiences used in living and passing on their knowledge on to their children. food makes us different, the area we live in, the type of exercise, type of work,so the man that first started out looked very different but was not ape. Did we look like one, probably ... all we have are some bones.


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I am Catholic but skeptical and studying science. It stands to reason that humans evolved from a common ancestor shared with apes. If not, then why have there been humanoid fossils discovered demonstrating changes in human physique, hence behaviour and adaptations.

Incest is forbidden so we could not all be descendents of Adam and Eve, that would be contradictory. The Bible is representative, exaggerated over time by stories and individual interpretations like many myths: based on fact, but altered.


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Humans didn't evolve from apes; rather, we and apes evolved from a common ancestor (who is no longer with us, but has been identified in fossil form).

The relationship is more like cousins than parent-child.


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There are still apes because some apes did not evolve into people. If rocks are crushed into stones, why are there still rocks? There are still rocks because some rocks did not get crushed into stones.


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Different species have evolved according to the conditions and ecological niches they find themselves in. Speciation occurs when a subtle change confers an advantage on a given population.

Let's think of a simple example:

If the world were suddenly covered in snow, and polar bear-type predators invaded everywhere, it stands to reason that they'd be more likely to eat dark coloured animals which they could see more easily.

That would give an advantage to animals which, by chance and *not* design, happened to be white. Animals of a usually black type which happened by chance to be *partly* white might also escape the bears. They would then be most likely to breed, passing on the white genes to their offspring.

Over time, all animals would become white, as the ones least suited to their environment were weeded out. Some species which were unable, by chance, to adapt, would go extinct as the polar bears ate the lot of them.

This is a very basic explanation, but is designed for silly Christians to grasp the concept. Organisms do not "choose" to evolve, they evolve by a series of chance mutations.

So, humans have evolved in a different way to chimps, gorillas and orangutans because the requirements of the environment we found ourselves in were different. It was an advantage for us to go in the direction we went, just as it was for the other apes.


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I would like to clarify a mistaken point on evolution stated previously in this series of responses. It was said that is humans were placed in a cold climate we would grow more hair and these genes would be passed on. Well, that answer is half-right but severely flawed. As Lemarck taughts us in his failures "aquired traits are NOT heritable". So if a little haired person were to grow hair then reproduce the offspring would not be inclined by their genes to have a heavy amount of hair. That was aquired by theparent and is completely seperate from geneitcs. Rather, evoultion and adaptation work randomly. The mutation to create more hair would be random in a population so some humans in the group would have more hair by nature (genetically). This individuals would in turn have a greater chance for survival in the cold environment. As the are selected for by nature their percentages will increase. More of the hairier humans will survive to reproduce and their children will be genetically driven to be hairier. That is just one of the marvalious and logical ways evolution in our nature world occurs. Thanks for your time and willingness to gain important knowledge


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This post is more of an RE to other posts regarding creationism vs. evolution: If you're interested in science, please read up on just about any Stephen Jay Gould book you can lay your hands on. You can refer to the following webpage, from the National Academies of Science: http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/ As far as SCIENCE goes, evolution is not "just a theory," but a proven scientific fact. Remember, Newton had his "Theory of universal gravitation," which turned out to be mostly correct. We now have the theory of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics can be verified by a variety of methods. On a macro (large) scale, Newton's theory can also be verified by scientific methods. The same goes for the theory of evolution. The theory describes a large variety evidence found in the field, and also has preditictive powers, all of which make it more than just a theory.


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Evolution is simply a random series of slight genetic mutations that over millions of years creates an entirely different species. For instance, say a tribe of fair skinned people traveled to a very hot climate, those people with darker skin would be more likely to survive thereby passing on there dark skinned genes and eventually weeding out the fair skinned people.


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I believe that we have evolved from apes because it's just the most resonable answer. I mean think about it, if God created Adam and Eve, their sons Cane and Able(did i spell that right?) would have to phone a sister because there would be no one else to produce with, so that mean if God magically created Adam and Eve then we would all be related!!!! So in other words, we had to have evolved from apes because again, it makes the most sense, even if there are still apes around.


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You may as well ask why is there more than one kind of ape. Humans are just one kind of ape, a gorilla is another. Just like a tiger is a cat and a cheetah is a cat. They are both cats but one has spots and one has stripes. Same species, slightly different DNA. We are just a slightly smarter monkey.

You may be happy to know that evolution does not necesarrily exclude creationism. Many christian scholars believe in something called intelligent design. This means things can evolve but there is a divine hand in what the out comes are.


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Evolution only occurs when it is necessary. Some apes evolved into man because either they moved to a new environment or their existing environment changed, making evolution necessary for survival. So, the apes who needed to adapt to their new environment through evolution to survive either did so or were wiped out (apparently, they changed, creating the human race), or stayed in a friendly environment, making evolution unnessessary and therefore, nonexistent (the apes in these conditions remained apes).


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there is a theory that schizophrenia in apes caused the split, because of the discovery of fire, the schizoid apes discovered fire, and that is what seperated the apes and led to the evolution of man. a schizophrenics generally are highly intelligent, or of highly intelligent parents ( the last three nobel prize winners had schizophrenic children i think ) and this is what changed the habitat and led to the development of a soceity and got us out of the caves etc...this is just one idea, and i think it's a rather good one!


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There is NO absolute scientific proof that evolution is true. There are a lot of theories. No scientist has been able to prove without a doubt that evolution occured. I grant you that you can say the same thing about creation. I challenge any of you to find scientific proof of evolution that can not be logically and scientifically debated through creation. Here is a tidbit to think about. You say that Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago before man ever arrived on the planet. If so, why are there human and dinosaur footprints on the same bedrock in Glen Rose, Texas.

If evolution did occur why did it stop? For millions of years apes were evolving into man and when it occurred they just stopped? What was the magic number of apes that could evolve before it stopped? Wouldn't they still be evolving today? What did a horse evolve from and where are the evolving skeletons? An elephant? A Giraffe? Think about all the animals on the planet and tell me what they evolved from and where are the skeletal reamains to show the evolution chain. You can't say a Sabretooth tiger evolved into a Bengal tiger because it is still a tiger, what did the Sabretooth evolve from. No mammoth evolving to elephant because they are both still elephants, what did the mammoth evolve from. All life came from the sea, then where is the half fish half ape skeletons or should I say Merape? Here is a really good question for you, If dinosaurs existed 65 million years ago and became extinct. Why have scientist found so few prehistoric human skeletons but so many dinosaur ones. Shouldn't the human skeletons be higher in the bedrock? Not to mention all of the skeletal remains of the evolution chain from ape to man. There would be a lot of them over millions of years, wouldn't you think? Maybe there were only few apes at the begining that started evolving and they didn't mate much so they could keep it to a select group.


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Then can you please tell me where I can find this fish with arms and feet? I would really like to know this. And where can I find these "missing links" of half ape half man?

Common ancestors are on a phylogenetic tree of evolution. They are the "parents" of other organisms. (for example, say a dolphin that turns into a cow and a frog. the dolphin is the common ancestor.) If evolution occured over a very long period of time, wouldn't there be more fossils of the missing links (the dolphin-frog, or dolphin-cow) than fossils of the common ancestors? Where are these "missing links"?

One law of science is that science cannot prove a universal negative. It is impossible to prove that creation is non-existent. To prove that something is non-existent, someone would have to be everywhere in the world at the same time. Is there anyone alive today who saw creation take place? The same is for evolutionism. You can't prove it is non-existent. That is where a person's judgement and faith in a theory comes in.


There have been skeletal remains discovered of a fish with arms and feet. There is skeletal remains showing the different stages of ape to man. There is plenty of evidence supporting evolution. Dinosaur bones are much larger than human bones therefore making them less destructible and visible to diggers. It is proof of creation that is non-existent.


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The question should be,"What is the difference between humans and apes?" Unlike many of the asnwers given here there is only one good answer to that question. Humans are the only ones able to give some of the answers given here, thereby showing that only hummans have the ability to have their heads up their rear end.


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i really must say i'm amazed at all the blindness going on here. honestly, it takes more faith to believe in evolution then creation! i've read all the answers here and found so many fallacies about the Bible it's amazing. there is only one creation story in the BIble, incest was not forbidden until the the time of moses, and there are no contradictions in the Bible. seriously folks, there is no proof(NONE!) for evolution. but the arrangement of the fossils, the different incongruencies in the dating methods and the fossils all suggest the prescence of a world-wide flood. just go to drdino.com and see for yourself all the articles about evolution and how it tears them to shreds!


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DrDino is a great site for evolutionist to check out. Another great site is TrueOrigin.org. This site takes all the scientific data that evolutionist use to prove the THEORY of Evolution and shows you how it is false or supports creation more than evolution. As I said before there is "No" topic that supposedly proves evolution that can not be debated through creation. There are more holes, gaps, and uncertainies in the theory of evolution then in creation. The only force that allows evolution to be a factor in todays society is that we are to proud to admit that we are not in total control of what happens in our lives. We don't want to be held accountable to anyone else. We use the excuse that we act like animals because we came from animals.


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we look too good to have evolved from apes


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God is in all things. God is a word humans use to mean 'that is in all things.' God is the creator and the created. God is the great spiritual mystery of physics. He does not cause suffering, suffering is part of the system of God. He does not abhore homosexuality, homosexuality is part of the system of God. He does not create man, man is part of the system of God, as are all things. The system of genetics is changing in ways ordinary people cannot understand. In Gods Universe, the genes evolve, all animals are created in God's image. Ther is no conflict between evolution and God. Only when people maintain the earth was created only 10 000 years ago, they show their misunderstanding of God.


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How stupid can you be to actually believe the earth was only created 10,000 yrs ago - there is entirely too much proof otherwise - again, blind faith - do some reading, do some research, do some damn thinking.


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"Only when people maintain the earth was created only 10 000 years ago, they show their misunderstanding of God."

I thought he/she was saying that the people who think the earth was created 10,000 years ago misunderstand God...therefore he/she thinks that it wasn't created only 10,000 years ago. But I could be wrong.


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KONG'S RESPONSE : We look too good to have evolved from humans.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Volitzer on September 03, 2008, 03:03:49 pm
Because we were genetically engineered by the Anunnaki.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 03, 2008, 03:05:56 pm
There is no scientific evidence for the Anunnaki, nor any alien race tampering with human evolution.  The line is clear, we just haven't found all the specimens yet.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 04, 2008, 11:51:16 pm
Rebecca says,
''The line is clear [on evolution], we just haven't found all the specimens yet.
True... and all we need is a few more thousand years. No wait, make that a few hundred.  ;)

Anyway, apes and humans have a common ancestor—which looked like, what, half human and half ape? I'm puzzled. Did this ancestor walk on all fours or just walk upright. Was it a combination of both. When did it make up its mind? Since the dna linkage is more chimpanzee then how did the apes get in here if it is the common ancestor? Then the ape isn't the common ancestor but the chimp? Yet the chimps are related to the ape, and humans and apes have/share a common ancestor but more genetically unlike each other than the chimps. Do I need my Etch 'n' Sketch pad here. Also I read somewhere a year ago humans and chimps evolved slower than apes. I'm sure that's controversial. Whassup with all this.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 05, 2008, 01:15:30 pm
Hello Andrew Waters,

You seem to be a very impatient individual when it comes to finding all the various specimens. Of course, if science had all the specimens, then all the questions when it came to human development would be answered now, wouldn't they? And, of course, we are still discovering things. 

As for what the half human, half ape might have looked like, that is the "missing link" that people have been looking for for over a hundred and fifty years.  For people who like easy answers to complex questions, my answer shall be a disappointment - there was not just one missing link, there were thousands of them.

Evolution is not quite a stepladder, more like a tree with many different branches.

Rebecca


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 05, 2008, 09:31:03 pm

Rebecca says:
''You seem to be a very impatient individual when it comes to finding all the various specimens.''

Actually I'm not impatient in the sense of  hurry up, it's just that I'm impatient with those in the establishment (I have no credentials other than I open a book every now and then, pro and con) who have become too patient/complacent with the known findings and as a result will say ''See, this is it.'' when it really isn't.   

 ''Of course, if science had all the specimens, then all the questions when it came to human development would be answered now, wouldn't they?''

Having all the specimens wouldn't translate into all questions being answered regarding human development. The evolutionary links would become much clearer I'm sure.

''And, of course, we are still discovering things.''

I agree too much to know but so little time in finding it. 

  ''For people who like easy answers to complex questions...''

I'm not one of those because there aren't any.

''... there was not just one missing link, there were thousands of them.''

...waiting to be discovered? Shouldn't that number turn up much more readily?

It does sound very interesting though; probably closer to the answer I think.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 06, 2008, 09:08:03 pm
Andrew Waters,

I actually do believe that there are thousands of different missing links still out there, waiting to be found (and, perhaps they will never be found).  When one thinks of how many layers of earth have been done on the past and how comparatively little Africa (where we all came from) has had done on it, there is certainly room to work with

What will remain a mystery is the exact mechanism by which change is forced, a catalyst, such as amino acids bringing forth the spark of life.

Even if that is all proven, I fear nothing will ever be proven to everyone's satisfaction.

Rebecca


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 06, 2008, 10:32:11 pm

''What will remain a mystery is the exact mechanism by which change is forced, a catalyst, such as amino acids bringing forth the spark of life.''

Yes. There are several ID websites that comment and debate that very premise. One in particular: Arn.org. Very bright discussants pro and con; many scientists.

For some innately held reason I do accept intelligent design as a matter of 'faith.' This view of mine however allows no interest whatsoever in the religious trappings that some affix to it other than to simply say an unknown has turned into a known for many (but not me) i.e., God said it so that's it. That said I do respect those who have some mystical affinity with the creators whomever they may be, male and female. After all this is some of that no easy answers to complex questions you mentioned earlier.
 
Even if that is all proven, I fear nothing will ever be proven to everyone's satisfaction.''

Well it seems to me if proven then those who willingly denounce truth, from whatever angle it may present itself, will be left to try and reassemble what shred of credibility they may have left.

I note you mentioned Africa as the birthplace of humanity, and it surely thus far has shown itself to be the place. Yet I can't shake the suspicion there is more to the story than meets the eye and ear; some more of that 'faith' I was talking about. Archaeology, paleoanthropology, molecular genetics, they all place human origins in Africa. Still, I can't reconcile myself to simply say well, that's the end of the story.  And it has nothing to do with the hue of anyone's skin; after all we are directly related genetically. But to me it leaves far too many areas of discussion unattended.

It's a simple measure to be dazzled by the knowledge some possess, yet quite another to not probe the knowledge holder further with pointed questions simply because she or he is quite knowledgeable, and in a lot of cases evidentiary; that is, how do you really know what you know since so much of the same topic  is unknowable. To wit: it's a simple thing to pick up a book and see who argues against this point or that within the same frame of reference of truth. I see it everyday on another website supposedly dedicated to seeking the truth.

So yes, I do want to know ''the truth'' where ever it may be found.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Jennifer O'Dell on September 06, 2008, 10:58:53 pm
Hey, Andrew, whassup?


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 07, 2008, 11:23:57 am
Hello Jennifer and how are you these days.

I've passed by here many times and thought of the old discussants from the ''bygone days'' :) and wondered how everyone was doing. I rarely post on AtlantisRising. Nothing untoward about that, it's just that I've been frequenting this ancient Egypt site the past year and yes, got involved in some heated debates with a couple of the anthropologists and geneticists. Not because of their knowledge, which is overwhelming, but some of their interpretation of it and how they pass it off as an undeniable fact; fact my yass. I'm thinking it sets them off when I tell them I'm no scientist but I do read or at least browse though, some of the same books they do and note there are no easy answers to everything. I will say this, some scientists are really stubborn when you ask them to step out of their box once in a while; not all the way out, just a little. It's almost as if they're afraid to be called on even entertaining ''the very idea.''

One thing is for sure though, they are human beings and subject to the same failings as everyone else. ;)

Go easy kid.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Psycho on September 07, 2008, 10:12:55 pm
Hey Andrew, how are you doing, buddy?


Quote
I rarely post on AtlantisRising. Nothing untoward about that, it's just that I've been frequenting this ancient Egypt site the past year and yes, got involved in some heated debates with a couple of the anthropologists and geneticists. Not because of their knowledge, which is overwhelming, but some of their interpretation of it and how they pass it off as an undeniable fact; fact my yass.

I am in total agreement with this sentiment.  The science that I have the least amount of respect for are Egyptologists (not saying that other sciences don't have their problems, too).  Egyptology is the least flexible, least open to new interpretation and (to my mind) most pretentious of the bunch. 

I have tried over and over again to explain these inconsistencies to guys like Peter V and Catastrophe but they seem to mindlessly believe the dogma, without being open to any new revisiting of the old ideas. It's a science of stubborn people, entrenched in their beliefs.   :(


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 08, 2008, 12:00:02 am
Hello Andrew,

Quote
For some innately held reason I do accept intelligent design as a matter of 'faith.' This view of mine however allows no interest whatsoever in the religious trappings that some affix to it other than to simply say an unknown has turned into a known for many (but not me) i.e., God said it so that's it. That said I do respect those who have some mystical affinity with the creators whomever they may be, male and female. After all this is some of that no easy answers to complex questions you mentioned earlier.

The trouble with those who commit to an intelligent design point of view, from a religious standing is that they simply don't tell us how - just that there is a god behind all this, that he is a designer and that we are not to ask anymore questions about the process other than what apparently is to be found in religious teachings.

Well, with all due respect to them, that is not actually a scientific argument but a philosophical one.  Alright, let's say that it is.  An equally philosophical argument can be made that the design to living creatures and the univserse isn't complex at all, we simply perceive that is is because this is the only existence we have ever know.  Perhaps the only thing we know for sure is that nature is cyclical and ever evolving and therein lies what is behind the thing we know as "life."  There need not even be a beginning or an end to all this, perhaps it always "was."

For the record, I am a religious person, but I don't allow my religious beliefs to intrude on my scientific beliefs.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 08, 2008, 12:05:42 am
Quote
I note you mentioned Africa as the birthplace of humanity, and it surely thus far has shown itself to be the place. Yet I can't shake the suspicion there is more to the story than meets the eye and ear; some more of that 'faith' I was talking about. Archaeology, paleoanthropology, molecular genetics, they all place human origins in Africa. Still, I can't reconcile myself to simply say well, that's the end of the story.  And it has nothing to do with the hue of anyone's skin; after all we are directly related genetically. But to me it leaves far too many areas of discussion unattended.


Not sure what you are getting at with this one.  For some odd reason, many people have been resistant to the idea of Africa as the cradle of life, and yet, it makes perfect sense to me.   Human beings evolved from apes, they shared a common ancestor, some of the creatures migrated to the north and east and other hues of humans were born. We are still evolving.  I would hate to think that this still quite greedy and warlike human we still are is the end result of what we were meant to be.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 08, 2008, 02:26:58 am

Howdy Psycho.

The debate raging on egyptsearch is whether ancient Egyptians were black people and referred to themselves as such. They are vehemently against Egyptology as presented to the public by Hawass and others. Most of those guys show their scholarly evidence to support their contentions. Their argument seems to be very persuasive. Anyway the argument isn't mine. It's a non-issue with me. By the way, has Peter V addressed any of this black Egypt controversy?  Speaking of which I saw Easterwood's (who I don't know) comments over on that site  few weeks ago as a new member and her premise was ancient Egypt was mixed. The forum members wouldn't entertain anything she said because their presented evidence says it wasnt possible.


Rebecca wrote:
 ''For some odd reason, many people have been resistant to the idea of Africa as the cradle of life, and yet, it makes perfect sense to me.''

Given the psychological position of a vast number of humans I don't think it an odd reason to deny it at all even though genetics places humans there in the 'beginning.' That's what I meant by unattended explanations earlier.

''. . . some of the creatures migrated to the north and east and other hues of humans were born.''

Are you referring to an Out of Africa population movement to a higher latitude as the answer for northern Europeans' skin color... even though you said ''other hues of humans were born''?  But if you meant the other hues were actually born then you have an explanation from whence those being born mated with?   

My basic problem with this is, some very educated and learned individuals will say that northern latitudes definitely is the deciding factor in Europeans' skin color; hair color and eye color is a red herring I was told. :) Not a very neat dodge I said. 

I questioned this position from a couple of scientists on the site and immediately took heat because they said the science involved translated into a *categorical affirmation of fact* (my use of term). I said it ain't no such thing. Well the one let loose with the name-calling and said I didn't know how to read the 'facts'. And of course I said his facts haven't been demonstrated to be 'facts' unless he believed in a smoke and mirrors explanation. Correlation isn't hard evidence from where I stand. 

 ''We are still evolving.''

Pretty confident statement considering we will never be around to see this continuation. :)

''I would hate to think that this still quite greedy and warlike human we still are is the end result of what we were meant to be.''

...and this can be construed to mean your religiosity can tell you there has to be a better explanation in terms ''of what we were meant to be''?

If your evolution viewpoint tells you we are still evolving and my presumed interpretation of your 'meant to be' is from a religious perspective then Christians and others are right when they say man will be a much better species when God returns to corrrect humanity's wayward disposition? Then God/ID and evolution work hand-in-hand?

If life is cyclical from an evolution-only standpoint then I find it odd that evolution has seen fit to equip most humans with an unrelenting image of a creator or two.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 08, 2008, 10:36:17 pm
Quote
Are you referring to an Out of Africa population movement to a higher latitude as the answer for northern Europeans' skin color... even though you said ''other hues of humans were born''?  But if you meant the other hues were actually born then you have an explanation from whence those being born mated with?   

My basic problem with this is, some very educated and learned individuals will say that northern latitudes definitely is the deciding factor in Europeans' skin color; hair color and eye color is a red herring I was told.  Not a very neat dodge I said. 


Well, that's a good question, about the hues.  I don't put it entirely down to northern climes as well. We have to remember that various forms of homind/human species overlapped with one another, lived side by side, died out even as new ones were being spawned, and doubtless interbred with one another. So we have not just the northern and southern climes affecting hues and hair color, but also the overlapping gene pool.  Evolution isn't tidy, it was a messy business.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 08, 2008, 10:37:50 pm
Quote
''We are still evolving.''

Pretty confident statement considering we will never be around to see this continuation.


Well, it is actually a bit of common sense, all we have to do is look back to the specimens of where we were to figure out where we are going.  People are certainly taller than they were just two thousand years ago, for instance. 


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 08, 2008, 10:41:26 pm
Quote
'I would hate to think that this still quite greedy and warlike human we still are is the end result of what we were meant to be.''

...and this can be construed to mean your religiosity can tell you there has to be a better explanation in terms ''of what we were meant to be''?

If your evolution viewpoint tells you we are still evolving and my presumed interpretation of your 'meant to be' is from a religious perspective then Christians and others are right when they say man will be a much better species when God returns to corrrect humanity's wayward disposition? Then God/ID and evolution work hand-in-hand?

If life is cyclical from an evolution-only standpoint then I find it odd that evolution has seen fit to equip most humans with an unrelenting image of a creator or two.

And yet, religion actually has very little to do with where I think that humankind should be.  Humans have learned to speak, create a language, civilzation and cities.  Dinosaurs weren't able to do that. Humans have proven to be surprisingly adaptable.  It would only make sense that one day we shall take measure to avoid things that might someday destroy ourselves.


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Andrew Waters on September 08, 2008, 11:45:43 pm




''And yet, religion actually has very little to do with where I think that humankind should be.''

I was simply curious when you said ''what we were meant to be''. It read as if there was some other unknown answer from your (admittedly) religious perspective and not just you talking. No aggression here.

  ''Humans have learned to speak, create a language, civilzation and cities.  Dinosaurs weren't able to do that. Humans have proven to be surprisingly adaptable.''

My position tells me humans had no choice in the matter on adaptability; dinosaurs are unrelated to how humans overcame their environment.

''People are certainly taller than they were just two thousand years ago, for instance.''

I'm willing to bet some populations around the globe were as tall then as today. I'm not talking NBA-type players, just the average person. A lot of societies will have had individuals who would be taller than the norm, even two thousand years ago. 
 
 


Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 10, 2008, 10:57:02 pm
Quote
''Humans have learned to speak, create a language, civilzation and cities.  Dinosaurs weren't able to do that. Humans have proven to be surprisingly adaptable.''

My position tells me humans had no choice in the matter on adaptability; dinosaurs are unrelated to how humans overcame their environment.

I disagree. Humans have been born with many gifts, true, they (we) are products of our envirnoment, yet we also have learned how to thrive in our environment.  Other creatures have sophisticated existences, too, and capable of organization - birds, ants, household pets, even, but humans have developed a culture that goes beyiond the need of mere survival.  The arts, literature and the sciences, for instance, yet have little to  do with human survival.



Title: Re: If people evolved from apes why are there still apes?
Post by: Rebecca on September 10, 2008, 11:00:04 pm
Quote
''People are certainly taller than they were just two thousand years ago, for instance.''

I'm willing to bet some populations around the globe were as tall then as today. I'm not talking NBA-type players, just the average person. A lot of societies will have had individuals who would be taller than the norm, even two thousand years ago. 


There are always exceptions to the rule, but the general trend seems to be that human beings have gotten taller.