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Maps, Explorers & Adventurers => the Oceans => Topic started by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:07:52 am



Title: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:07:52 am
Author  Topic: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge 
Carolyn Silver

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Howdy, boys and girls. Is there a scientific basis for more of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to have once been above water than it is now? You betcha! And if that is the case, it's only a small leap to say that it was the place that Plato was talking about! No other place would make sense if you're taking into consideration that he was talking abut a "large island" outside the Straits of Gibraltar.
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:16:24 am
Meanwhile, let us take a fresh look at the Atlantic Ocean to see if the theory of continental drift might still leave room for a missing continent there. When a computer was used to reassemble the continental jigsaw, the fit across the Atlantic was found, with some adjustment, to be fairly satisfactory. But that picture does not take account of a fascinating underwater feature known as the mid-Atlantic Ridge. This mountainous ridge, nearly two miles high and hundreds of miles wide, runs in an S-curve down the Atlantic midway between the Americas and Africa and Europe, following the contours of those continents and marking its course above water with a number of islands, such as the Azores, Ascension Island, and Tristan da Cunha.

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_misterios/bermuda_world.jpg)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:21:51 am
As early as 1883 Ignatius Donnelly suggested that the mid-Atlantic Ridge was a remnant of Atlantis. But most modern geologists and oceanographers consider that, far from being the relic of a continent that sank beneath the sea, the ridge was forced upward from the ocean floor, probably by volcanic activity. One theory is that as the continents drifted apart they produce a huge fault line that is a center of earthquake and produce a huge fault line that is a center of earthquake and volcanic action. Some of the earth's molten center has erupted through this crack and built up into a ridge, even rising above the waves in several places. However, there is evidence that this explanation may have to reviewed before too long.

 (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_misterios/bermudas_atlantida_7.jpg)

A diver taking part in A.R.E.s Poseidia 75 expedition to Bimini in the Bahamas examines an encrusted marble column found about a mile south of the Bimini Road. In 1968, what appeared to be a vast underwater road was discovered off Bimini, and the next year the columns, of which this is one, were found.
 

Seabed cores taken from the mid-Atlantic Ridge in 1957 brought up freshwater plants from a depth of two miles. And in one of the deep valleys, known as Romanche, sands have been found that appear to have been formed by weathering when that part of the ridge was above water level. In a 1969 a Duke University research expedition dredged 50 sites along an underwater ridge running from Venezuela to the Virgin Islands, and brought up granitic rocks, which are normally found only on continents. Commenting on this discovery, Dr. Bruce Heezen of the Lamont Geological Observatory said:

"Up to now, geologists generally believed that light granitic or acid igneous rocks are confined to the continents and that the crust of the earth beneath the sea is composed of heavier, dark-colored basaltic rock... Thus, the occurrence of light-colored granitic rocks may support an old theory that a continent formerly existed in the region of the eastern Caribbean and that these rocks may represent the core of a subsided, lost continent."

A recent report on the nature of the Atlantic seabed appears to confirm that there is at least part of a former continent lying beneath the ocean. Under the heading "Concrete Evidence for Atlantis?" the British Journal New Scientist of June 5, 1975 reported, "Although they make no such fanciful claim from their results as to have discovered the mythical mid-Atlantic landmass, an international group of oceanographers has now convincingly confirmed preliminary findings that a sunken block of continent lies in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes from analyzing dredge samples taken along the line of the Vema offset fault, a long east-west fracture zone lying between Africa and South America close to latitude 11º "N".

 

The report goes on to state that in 1971 two researchers from the University of Miami recovered some shallow-water limestone fragments from deep water in the area. Minerals in the limestone indicated that they came from a nearby source of granite that was unlikely to occur on the ocean floor. More exhaustive analysis of the dredge samples revealed that the limestones included traces of shallow-water fossils, implying formation in very shallow water indeed, a view confirmed by the ratios of oxygen and carbon isotopes found in the fragments. One piece of limestone was pitted and showed evidence of tidal action.

The researchers believe that the limestone dates from the Mesozoic era (between 70 and 220 million years ago) and forms a cap "on a residual continental block left behind as the Atlantic spread out into an ocean." the New Scientist observes that

"The granitic minerals could thus have come from the bordering continents while the ocean was still in it infancy. Vertical movements made by the block appear to have raised it above sea level at some period during it's history.

It would therefore seem that there is a lost continent in the Atlantic, but unfortunately for Atlantists, it evidently disappeared long before man appeared on earth. Most scientist remain convinced that there is no likelihood of finding the Atlantis described by Plato in the area of the mid-Atlantic Ridge. As L. Sprague de Camp comments in his Lost Continents, nearly all of the ridge, except for the small and mountainous Azores region, is under two or three miles of water, "and there is no known way to get a large island down to that depth in anything like the 10,000 years required to fit in with Plato's date for the sinking of Atlantis." He also points to a report published in 1967 by Dr. Maurice Ewing of Columbia University, who announced that "after 13 years of exploring the mid-Atlantic Ridge, he had "found no trace of sunken cities."



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:23:53 am
Atlantists reply that Dr. Ewing could have been looking in the wrong places, or perhaps too close to the center of the destructive forces that plunged Atlantis into the ocean. Some Atlantists have suggested that the original Atlantic landmass broke up into a least two parts, one of which sank long after the other. Perhaps Plato's Atlantis was a remnant of the continent that oceanographers now appear to have detected in the Atlantic, and perhaps it was not submerged until very much more recent times. The bed of the Atlantic is, after all, an unstable are and one that has given birth to numerous islands, then swallowed them up again. In 1811, for example, volcanic activity in the Azores resulted in the emergence of a new island called Sammrina, which shortly sank back again into the sea. In our own time, the island of Surtsey, 20 miles southwest of Iceland, has slowly risen from the ocean. Surtsey was formed during a continuous underwater eruption between 1963 and 1966.

If Atlantis did exist in the Atlantic above the great fault line that runs between the present continents, it would certainly have been plagued by earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Is it mere coincidence that Plato should have situated his lost continent in an ocean that does apparently contain such a continent, and in an area subject to the very kind of catastrophe he describes? Atlantists think not.

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_misterios/bermudas_atlantida_9_small.jpg)

NORTHERN HEMISPHERE
 
(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_misterios/bermudas_atlantida_10_small.jpg)

SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE
 

On the other hand, there are some Atlantists who believe that the destruction of Atlantis was brought about not by geological events but by a man-made disaster, such as a nuclear explosion. According to the Cayce readings, the Atlanteans achieved an astonishingly high level of technology before the continent sank, around 10,000 B.C. They invented the laser, aircraft, television, death rays, atomic energy, and cybernetic control of human beings, and it was the misuse of the tremendously powerful natural forces they had developed that caused their destruction.

Cayce is best-known for his apparent ability to diagnose illness even in people whom he had never met. This ability was tested by a group of physicians from Hopkinsville and Bowling Green, Kentucky. They discovered that when Cayce was in a state of trance, it was sufficient to give him the name and address of a patient for him to supply a wealth of information about that person, often drawing attention to medical conditions of which the physicians were then unaware, but that subsequent tests on the patient proved to be correct.

 

This work alone would appear to justify the description of Cayce as America's most talented psychic. And if one aspect of his clairvoyant powers could prove so successful, it seems reasonable to give a fair hearing to other psychic statements he made, however, fantastic.

 

Cayce's sons, who help run the organization set up to study his work, admit that their life would be far simpler if Edgar Cayce had never mentioned Atlantis. Hugh Lynn Cayce comments:

"It would be very easy to present a very tight evidential picture of Edgar Cayce's psychic ability and the helpfulness of his readings if we selected only those which are confirmed and completely validated. This would not be fair in total, overall evaluation of his life's work. My brother and I know that Edgar Cayce did not read Plato's material on Atlantis, or books on Atlantis, and that he, so far as we know, had absolutely no knowledge of this subject. If his unconscious fabricated this material or wove it together from existing legends and stories in print or the minds of persons dealing with the Atlantis theory."

Edgar Evans Cayce makes the comment that,

"unless proof of the existence of Atlantis is one day discovered, Edgar Cayce is in a very unenviable position. On the other hand, if he proves accurate on this score he may become as famous an archaeologist or historian as he was a medical clairvoyant."

If, as his sons and thousands of followers believe, Edgar Cayce's readings were supernormal and not the product of reading the works of others, it is certainly an intriguing case. There are, for example, some fascinating similarities between Cayce's descriptions of Atlantis and those of occultists such as Madame Blavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, and W. Scott-Elliott, including references to the Atlanteans telepathic and other supernormal powers, their advanced technology, their moral disintegration, and the civil strife and misuse of their powers that finally caused their demise. Cayce's readings also mention Lemuria, or Mu. Either Cayce was psychically readings the works of these earlier writers, or he - the they - really were 'tuning in' to the past.

Whatever the result of future investigations around the splendid temples and palaces of Crete, or in the depths of the Thera basin, there will still be people who continue to look for convincing case for the identification of Plato's Atlantis with the Minoan civilization of the Aegean, but their opponents argue that the existence of such a civilization - however striking it similarities with Atlantis - does not preclude the existence of an even great civilization in the Atlantic. The finds in the Bahamas remain to be verified, and the discovery of what appears to be a submerged continent in the Atlantic adds a new dimension to the Atlantis mystery.

Whatever prompted Plato to write about Atlantis, he could never have dreamed that he would start a worldwide quest for the lost continent. Perhaps, as his pupil Aristotle hinted, "he who invented it, also destroyed it." Yet through a fortuitous accident - or a canny understanding of the human spirit - Plato hit upon a story that has struck a responsive chord in people's minds and hearts down the centuries. Whether his story was fact or fiction, a distorted version of real events or a fable that just happened to tie in with reality, it has managed to enchant, baffle, and challenge mankind for over 2000 years.

The persistence of the Atlantis legend is almost as intriguing as the lost continent itself. What is it that keeps the Atlantis debate alive? Is it a longing for reassurance that men and women once knew the secret of happiness, and really did inhabit a Garden of Eden? Is it the thrill of the search - the hope of finding a master key to unlock the secrets of the past? Or is it simply man's thirst for mystery itself - for something grand and inexplicable, larger than himself? Certainly popular interest in the mystical side of Atlantis is always most intense when the life of the spirit is in the greatest disarray - during the latter half of the 19th Century, in the aftermath of Darwin's bombshell, for example, and during our own time.

The day may yet come when the key is found and the mystery of Atlantis is solved once and for all. The solution may be simple or complex. It could be sensational or disappointingly dull. We may already suspect the answer, or it may surprise us. Either way, it would rob the world of one of its most fascinating enigmas. Atlantis has intrigued and inspired people for a very long time. Perhaps, for the time being, we should be glad that the answer has not yet been found, and that Plato's lost continent remains just beyond our grasp.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_bermuda_5f.htm



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:24:50 am
GEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE

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The Importance of Oceanography

The geological aspect of Atlantis is the most important facet of the whole issue of Atlantis. If the geological story of this planet does not support the existence of a large island in the midst of the North Atlantic, then, to make a long story short, Atlantis is down the tube. Therefore, establishing the feasibility of such a landmass geologically is of paramount importance. In the case of Atlantis, geology and oceanography are closely entwined.

SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIONS

The center of the geological story of Atlantis is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Other related aspects are confined to the ocean bottom in the vicinity of the Ridge, therefore these areas will be the focal points of this study. Since I am not an oceanographer myself, I will rely on the special reports and scientific papers of oceanographers and geologists who have done work in these areas in the past. The brief data outlined below includes those supplied by two giants in the field of oceanography, Drs. Bruce Heezen and Maurice Ewing, both of the prestigious Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory at New York's Columbia University, as well as those of other well-known marine research institutions.


Don't let anyone tell you that the discovery of Plate Tectonics (involving "continental drift") disproves Atlantis in any way. I've heard professionals in the field make statements like, "This doesn't leave any room for Atlantis!", or "the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is made of basaltic material, it can't be part of a continent!" We will let you decide after you have looked at the evidence.

THE ATLANTIC LANDMASS

Professional geologists have endeavored to make Plate Tectonics (which is the backbone of modern geology) the enemy of Atlantis (Speicher, 1972). Nothing could be further from the truth. Plate Tectonics is what created and what destroyed Atlantis. It is also what has made it such an unreliable dwelling place for plants or animals, and the landmass we have chosen to call Atlantis may have gone in and out of existence several times over a period of many millions of years. It was not always the same size or the same shape, and it doubtless had different categories of flora and fauna during these different periods of time. In geological terms it doesn't take long for a landmass to develop some sort of collection of flora and fauna. In a mere thousand years, all kinds of trees, grass, weeds and bushes will cover any landmass making its appearence in a temperate or tropical zone. Such growth couldn't care less whether the land was made of continental (sial) or basaltic (sima) material. Or whether it was officially a "continent" or not. Greenland is an island. Plato called Atlantis "a large island". So if it was as large as Greenland (a pretty big place), it would still be an "island".

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:25:24 am
PLATE TECTONICS

Did North America and Europe fit together so perfectly that there was no body of water in between? Evidence indicates that there was a "proto-Atlantic Ocean" even before the continents began to spread apart. This evidence was obtained during a series of core drillings by the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory's Deep-Sea Project. During this expedition it was found that sediments off the coasts of North Africa and North America differed in age some 45 million years. Had the continents been joined the sediments would have been the same age (Hayes & Pimm, 1971). The nature of the samples resulted in Dr. Hayes postulating a 400-mile-wide "proto-Atlantic Ocean" extending from Newfoundland down to at least the Bermuda area.


Moreover the phenomenon known as "continental drift," which is due to the action of Plate Tectonics, is an extremely slow process. The breakup which left the Americas and Euro-Africa drifting apart began near the beginning of the Mesozoic Era some 200 million years ago. There has been sufficient room for Atlantis in the North Atlantic Ocean for the last 60 million years--and there is definitive oceanographic data to support this (Ewing, 1948).


Some biologists and zoologists have postulated the existence of a large landmass in the North Atlantic during Miocene times, 12-26 million years ago. Atlantis may have "surfaced" several times during the long geological history of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. But at the moment we are more concerned about the last 3 million years, i.e., the Pleistocene Epoch, which ended some 12,000 years ago.


But what of the objections concerning the light granitic continental material known as sial (silicon-aluminum)? As stated above, a landmass does not have to be made of sial in order to be above ocean levels long enough to acquire vegetation and animal populations. Granted, if consisting predominately of sima (silicon-magnesium) it will be heavier and therefore unstable, but forces powerful enough to lift ocean bottoms for short periods of time (geologically speaking) certainly exist along the geologically turbulent Mid-Atlantis Ridge. The Ridge is the most active area on the face of the earth, and we will examine the evidence that a central Atlantic landmass has indeed existed several times in the geologic past.


But, in spite of what various geologists have said, there is good oceanographic data showing that much of this area along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is composed of sial, in spite of the scientific objections (Leonard, 1979). Dr. W. Maurice Ewing of Columbia University headed up several oceanographic expeditions along the famous Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:26:02 am
THE OCEANOGRAPHIC EXPEDITIONS

In 1948 Dr. Ewing, one of the bitter opponents of Atlantis, sailed up and down the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during the Woods Hole Oceanographic Expeditions to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Numerous samples of tremolite asbestos were brought up. Ewing made this significant comment: "Such rock is generally considered typical of continents and not of ocean basins." (Ewing, 1948) Important also was the discovery of "beachlike terraces" beneath two miles of ocean water. Ewing cautiously observed: "It is, of course, extremely radical speculation to identify these level stretches more than two miles below the sea surface as former beaches. Such a theory would require the obvious but almost incredible conclusion that the land has subsided two miles or else the sea has risen by that amount" (Ewing, 1948). However, subsequent expeditions only strengthened the "incredible".


According to Ewing, long flat stretches were detected 2 to 20 miles wide and hundreds of miles long. These beach-like areas were always covered with thick sediments, indicating a long period of deposition, although occasionally separated by mountainous "higher ground" exhibiting no such sediments. (The Central Highland of the Ridge occasionally approaches four-fifths of a mile from the sea surface.) Ewing observed that deep ocean basins never have thick sediments--which are the result of surf action and river deposition--it is actually shorelines that display thick sediments. More evidence of just how recently such a landmass existed turned up during an expedition the following year.


The follow-up expedition in 1949 turned up numerous core samples from these terraces. These cores contained two different strata of beach sand: the older estimated to be 225,000-325,000 years of age, and the younger 20,000-100,000 years old (Ewing, 1949). Another significant fact is that the deposits were found to be well-sorted by surf action into the usual pattern of shoreline beaches familiar to geologists (Miller & Scholten, 1966). His conclusion was that: "Sometime in the distant past this sand found deep beneath the ocean must have been located on a beach, at or near the surface of the sea" (Ewing, 1949).


During this second Woods Hole Mid-Atlantic Ridge Expedition Dr. Ewing once again dredged up continental type rocks. Sample after sample containing large masses of sial were brought up all along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It became obvious that granite and sedimentary rocks "which originally must have been part of a continent" were abundant (Ewing, 1949). Dr. Bruce Heezen observed that this type of rock indicates "possible sunken land masses".


Geologists have short memories when it comes to Atlantis. A geologist reviewed the Woods Hole expeditions of 1948-1949 barely ten years later and wrote a report on the findings (Cifelli, 1970). I read his report, word for word and cover to cover: not a word was written concerning the numerous findings of continental material (sial) along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Ewing was puzzled, even dismayed, by these particular discoveries; yet he was honest enough to report them. Why were these astounding facts not included in Richard Cifelli's review? Can professional geologists be this one-sided?


Still another oceanographic expedition, Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition of 1947-1948, yielded core samples containing sand from the Romache Deep along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Otto Mellis did not publish these findings until ten years later (Mellis, 1958). Other geologists have guardedly admitted that the Azore Islands (Central Atlantic) are composed chiefly of continental material, some even conceding that there might be enough continental material (sial) in the mid-Atlantic to make up a landmass the size of Spain (de Camp, 1970). This is not much smaller than the size I have been proposing for the island of Atlantis.


http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:27:24 am
PLANTS AND ANIMALS ON ATLANTIS

In 1957, Dr. Rene Malaise of the Riks Museum in Stockholm announced that a colleague, Dr. R. W. Kolbe, had found proof of the geologically recent subsidance of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Kolbe of the Swedish Museum of Natural History had been commissioned to investigate diatoms found in deep-sea cores obtained during the above mentioned Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition. Although the expedition included a globe-encircling study, only those cores taken from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge yielded the following: Multitudinous shells of fresh-water diatoms (small lake animals) and fossilized remains of terrestrial plants (Kolbe, 1957). Let me repeat that. Land plants and fresh-water animals were found fossilized on the Atlantic Ocean bottom along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


Dr. Malaise theorized that parts of the Ridge must have existed as large islands up to the end of the last Ice Age or later: i.e., as recently as 10,000-12,000 years ago. He also theorized that these landmasses must have had fresh-water lakes in order to account for the existence of fresh-water animals (Malaise, 1956). Commenting on Malaise' theory, Kolbe writes: ". . . it provides a natural explanation of the layer consisting exclusively of fresh-water diatoms, which is otherwise difficult to comprehend" (Kolbe, 1957).


The six levels of terraces discovered by the Woods Hole expeditions suggest that the Atlantic island was constantly changing shape - as well as being reduced in size - before it finally disappeared at the end of the Ice Age. Such geological changes would have been catastrophic to any life living on such a landmass: the unhappy result of the constant violence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. If the Atlantic landmass happened to be inhabited by humans, these violent disturbances could well have been the cause of the four Cro-Magnon "invasions" outlined on the Anthropological page of this web site. These well documented invasions impacted the western shores of North Africa and Europe (including Great Britain and other Atlantic islands) and occurred during a time frame of 35,000-12,000 years ago (the latter date corresponding closely to the date given by Plato.

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:28:44 am
ATLANTIC OCEAN: The hourglass shaped Atlantic covers approximately 20 percent of the Earth's surface and is the second largest of the four oceans. It extends from the North Pole southward for 10,000 miles to the Antarctic continent, and covers 41 million square miles. Width of the Atlantic varies from 1,769 miles between Brazil and Liberia and approximately 3,000 miles between Norfolk, VA, and Gibraltar.


More is known of the Atlantic than any other ocean because of heavy commercial and military ship traffic connecting Europe and North America. Average depth is 12,000 feet and the greatest depth is 28,374 feet in the Puerto Rico Trench. If Alaska's Mount McKinley (20,320 feet) was to rise from the floor of the Puerto Rico trench, its peak would still be about 1.5 miles below the surface of the Atlantic.

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge divides the sea floor nearly through the center and stretches from the polar regions of the North to Antarctica in the South. The Mid Atlantic Ridge was created by the splitting apart of the super continent of Pangaea 190 million years ago. The ridge lies about 10,000 feet below water level except in a few areas where it surfaces as islands. This mountain range is as much as 500 miles wide. Rugged valleys extend outward from the ridge line to the abyssal plains.

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is a continuous feature of the basin floor with one exception. There is a significant break in the ridge near the equator at the Romanche furrow where the crest of the ridge dips 15,000 feet below the surface. This break in the mountain chain allows deep water to flow freely between the Atlantic's east and west sides. The unrestricted movement provides a thorough circulation of the ocean basin that has a pronounced effect on deep water currents, density and temperature.

http://pao.cnmoc.navy.mil/pao/Educate/OceanTalk2/indexoceans.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:31:30 am
Direct Evidence of An Emergent Atlantis/Prof. MacKenzie Keith (Now Deceased)


Incidental, almost, to Keith’s efforts to buttress one of his points about a former emergent continent in the Atlantic ocean is the material that he summarizes on former shallow water or emergent sites sampled by the Deep Sea Drilling Project (DSDP). The sampling sites are currently underwater in the region of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (MAR). Locations for three of these sites (Keith, 2001, Table 1) are shown by large red dots on Figure 6, a relief map of the Azores region we have used in previous articles on THC’s website. The red dots are rather large because, while the sampling coordinates that are listed give degrees north latitude, they do not give degrees west longitude. It is understood, however, that the samples were taken in the vicinity of the MAR axial valley, clearly visible on Figure 6.

Here’s what was found at point A, at a depth of 12,802 ft: highly vesicular basalt, weathered and oxidized basalt, and a major gap in the basal sedimentary section that indicates subaerial erosion. At site B, at a depth of 12,440 ft, basaltic pebbles and weathered and oxidized basalt were found. And at site C, in 12,313 ft of water, once again basaltic pebbles and weathered and oxidized basalt were found. All of the above findings are strong indicators of a formerly emerged MAR. And they suggest that this volcanic terrain has sunk a minimum of 12,300 ft since being exposed to the atmosphere. Note that Keith’s Table 1 lists six additional MAR sampling sites-to the south of those plotted on our Figure 6 and on down to the equator. Two of these sampling sites show ridge tops flattened by wave erosion, one revealed Tertiary-age shallow water sediment, and another revealed Cretaceous-age shallow water sediment. A final, rather startling finding consists of canyons and a trellis drainage system, quite possibly formed subaerially at a depth greater than 9800 ft. The MAR location is between 26º and 27ºN.

Fig. 6. Physiographic diagram of the Azores region, based on a diagram by B. Heezen and M. Tharp. See text for an explanation of red dots A-C, sites of deep-water sampling of subaerial material representative of an emergent continent. (Subaerial refers to conditions and processes that exist or operate in the open air on and immediately adjacent to a land surface). A repository for the records of the Atlantean civilization may be found in the area shown by blue shading. The Atlantean records repository will be found in a specific temple "where a portion of the temples may yet be discovered." (See Cayce reading 440-5).



As quoted from Keith (p. 266), additional evidence of former exposure of the MAR consists of
“…extensive denudation of oceanic crust [and] development of deep canyons and trellis drainage patterns along fault scarps of the MAR (Tucholke et al., 1997). Tucholke et al. attributed the modified topography to sub-ocean mass wasting but erosional features … out to about 300 km [185 miles] from the axis, favor Recent subaerial exposure and erosion of the ridge crest. Former broader subaerial exposure, and progressive subsidence, is indicated by borehole intersections at off-axis sites….The stratigraphy of those borehole sections provides evidence of broad exposure of the ridge followed by ridge subsidence, [and] narrowing of the active volcanic zone….” (Keith, p. 266).

http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/ECNews/Atlan_Mu/new_hypothesis.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:33:31 am
With respect to a “gradual” beginning to the rise of Atlantis in 1998, note that I have indicated on the map that in 1998 an underwater volcanic eruption occurred close to the surface off the northeast corner of Zihrov’s Poseidonis. A report from the scene in February 2000 reads: "Ash and gas emissions from the submarine eruptive fissure that started erupting in late 1998 is still continuing at Terceira, Azores. For over one year, the eruption is continuing at low, fluctuating levels.”

Now scientists like Pascal and others do not think that Poseidonis, or “Poseidia,” ever existed above the ocean surface. Such a conjecture does not even enter their minds. This is so because everything in their intellectual world of age-dated ocean floor rocks and sediments, magnetically-striped ocean floors, and models of Earth dynamics and sea-floor spreading reinforces the hypotheses that what is sea-floor now was sea-floor in the days of Cayce’s Atlantis. Thus, Pascal and Others come to the conclusion that after a period of construction by hot-spot upwelling of rock from the mantle below, “the Azores plateau rifted apart. Rifting began at about 9 Ma [millions of years ago] in the north and propagated southward for about 6 Ma.” [V22A-05]

This is a far different story from that given in the Cayce readings on Atlantis, unless one is willing to accept the readings’ assertion that the Azores portion of the central Atlantic ocean basin was above water after formation of the Azores plateau, and then sank in successive stages beginning around 19,400 years ago.

Rapid Uplift of a Lithospheric Sliver Near the Vema Fracture Zone (Central Atlantic) due to Change in the Pole of Rotation

M. Lugi and Others report on the Vema Fracture Zone, which offsets the Mid Atlantic Ridge by 190 miles at 10° N. The southern flank of the fracture valley is a prominent ridge that exposes a relatively undisturbed section of uplifted ocean crust. The uplift “is related to a change in the position of the pole of [Earth’s] rotation….[but]….the rapid uplift did not cause major internal deformation of the lithospheric slab.” [T52C-12]

Here, then, the five authors of the abstract have come to the conclusion that a crustal segment of the Mid Atlantic seafloor was uplifted rapidly due to a pole shift 12 million years ago. One asks, if such uplift could happen then, could not at least some parts of Poseidia rise again, relatively undeformed, during the pole shift predicted in the readings for 2001?

Excursions, Transitions, and Secular Variation Over the Past 800,000 yrs: High-Resolution Geomagnetic and Rock Magnetic Records From a Mudwave on the Bahama Outer Ridge

G. Acton and Others report recovering cores from eight holes drilled in the mudwave lying on the seafloor under 15,645 feet of North Atlantic Ocean water. Although they don’t say exactly how the ages of the sediments and rocks were determined, one infers that paleomagnetic data were used. This study indicates that the Atlantis of the Cayce readings was not above the waves at this location on the Bahama Outer Ridge for at least the last 800,000 years. The exact mudwave location is assumed to be somewhere near the 2,500 fathom contour on the figure. [GP11A-06]
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http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/ECNews/OwnWords/InTheirOwnWords2.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:36:02 am
Evidence from the floor of the ocean

In a 1954 issue of Geological Society of America, Bulletin, Bruce Heezen and others reported on a seamount - an underwater mountain - that has been named Atlantis by geologists and is in the Atlantic Ocean. It has been found to have been an island about 12,000 years ago - exactly the time specified by Plato! This abstract is given:

The Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor seamounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to 37°N. 32°W. southeast to Great Sea mount at 30°N. 28°W. The Atlantis Sea mount, briefly explored 1947 and 1948, was found by echo sounding and submarine photography to have a fairly flat bedrock summit area at about 180 fathoms covered in some cases by current-rippled sand. Its slopes are covered with sand or ooze symmetrically rippled at 400 fathoms and marked by slump features in 570 fathoms. A small piece of volcanic agglomerate was dredged from 400 fathoms on the north slope. About a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area. One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years ±900 (J.L. Kulp). The state of lithification of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under subaerial [i.e. above water, on land surface] conditions and that the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12,000 years. (Heezen, Bruce C., et al, "Flat-Topped Atlantis, Cruiser, And Great Meteor Sea Mounts" in Geological Society of America, Bulletin, 65:1261, 1954 (Protogonos issue 9))

In later studies, evidence was found for the remnants of a "sunken block of continent" in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An articlein New Scientist 1975 summarizes the result. (Anonymous, New Scientist,66:540, 1975)

Although they make no such fanciful claim from their results as to have discovered the mythical mid-Atlantic landmass, an international group of oceanographers has now convincingly confirmed preliminary findings that a sunken block of continent lies in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes from analysing dredge samples taken along the line of the Vema offset fault, a long east-west fracture zone lying between Africa and South America close to latitude 11øN.

The article describes the first report of "shallow-water limestone fragments" from the Vema Fracture in the Atlantic:

Four years ago two University of Miami workers, J. Honnorez and E. Bonatti, first reported the recovery of shallow-water limestone fragments from the Vema fracture zone. This limestone contained minerals indicative of a nearby granitic source unlikely to occur on the ocean floor. Neither water currents, nor more esoteric transport systems, could explain the presence of these rocks so far from the modern boundaries of the continents. The two researchers believed that, instead, the granitic grains must have been deposited close to their source.

Then the recent researchers are noted:

Now, with C. Emiliani of Miami, Paul Bronniman of the University of Geneva, M.A. Furrer of Esso Production Research, Begles, and A.A. Meyerhof, a consulting geologist from Tulsa, USA, they have carried out a more searching analysis of the dredge samples (Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 26, p.8)

Finally he notes the evidence for activity in less than 30 meters ofwater, and even some evidence for activity in soil.

The Limestones include traces of shallow-water fossils - foraminifera, green algae, bits of gastropods, and crab coprolites - implying formation in water, in one instance, less than 30 m deep. Furthermore, the limestones have been recrystallized from a high to low-magnesium form of calcite. Oxygen and carbon-isotope ratios prove conclusively that this process must have taken place subaerially [on land surface] "through the action of meteoric water enriched in light carbon while passing through a soil zone ..." A pitted limestone sample bears evidence of tidal action. Some 50 km east of the dredge site along the Vema fracture the team also recovered a thick-shelled, shallow-water, bivalve fossil from a depth of over 2000 m.

The coprolites in the sample indicate a Mesozoic age for the limestone which may well be the sedimentary capping on a residual continental block left behind as the [??] spread out into an ocean. The granitic minerals could thus have come from the bordering continents while the ocean was still in its infancy. Vertical movements made by the block appear to have raised it above sea level at some period during its history.

(from Unknown Earth: A Handbook of Geological Enigmas by William R. Corliss.)

http://www.atlantissource.com/home/forgotten_article.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on June 15, 2008, 01:38:05 am
PROOF OF THE FORMER EXISTANCE OF A
LARGE ISLAND ON THE MID ATLANTIC RIDGE


River Systems Extract - Azores as a Large Island

In 1971 we carried out an inspection of parts of the South Coast of San Miguel, the largest of the Azorean Islands. At one point, we found the remnants of a large, boulder filled, river-bed truncated by the shoreline. The rounded boulders were smoothly water-worn and massive (up to two feet across). The river bed, if we remember correctly, was some two hundred and fifty feet from bank to bank; but there was now insufficient width of island to sustain such a river. The boulders were so worn that they had, obviously, travelled a considerable distance, and a strong current of water with a head of thousands of feet would have been required to transport them. There was no room on the narrow island for such a current to be fostered - the rivers source must have lain to the north, on the flanks of a high mountain range. The present mountains on San Miguel are only a little over 3,000 feet high; and we estimate that it would have required a fall of at least 10,000 feet to have reduced boulders of that size, and hardness, to the degree of roundness which they profess.

(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed2.jpg) (http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/dryriverbed4.jpg)

This discovery so intrigued us that we started an investigation of the mapped sea-bed around all of the islands, with remarkable results. We started with the 1:1 million scale Admiralty Chart - Arquipelago dos Acores - the numerous soundings of which gave a very good general view of the configuration of the sea bed over the whole group of Azorean islands, covering, from east to west - Ilheus das Formigas, Santa Maria, Sao Miguel, Terciera, Soa Jrge, Graciosa, Pico (with its 7,613 feet high, conical, volcanic peak). These were supplemented by larger scale charts where they were available.

We started by contouring the sea bed at intervals of 100 fathoms (600 feet), and it immediately became clear that the river systems that now modestly drain the southern flanks of Sao Miguel were merely head-water tributaries whose channels continued far out to sea, joining into one great, winding, submarine valley some 40 miles further to the south. Other islands contributed similar results and, outstanding, were the triple group of Fial, Sao Jorge and Terciera whose combined results spawned two long river-like valleys which joined into one large valley to give a system that extended for 180 miles.

The whole of the Azorean island group was separated and surrounded by a net of submarine valleys that had all the hall-marks of having once been river valley's on the surface. The Azores could - and probably had, within comparatively recent times - sunk by many thousands of feet.

The next step was to decide whether it was possible to detect any particular contours which might point to an ancient shore line pre dating the sinking of the area. In the south, there was a clear break in gradients around the 1,900 fathom (11,400 feet) contour where a very extensive plain dipped sharply into deeper water. In the north, much the same had happened but at a considerably more shallow depth.

It began to look as if a large land mass, 450 miles across from east to west, and 300 miles from north to south, had tilted from north to south and had sunk beneath the waves, leaving only its mountain peaks showing above the waters - peaks which now form the ten islands of the Azores.

After further calculation, we reached the conclusion that the tilting, either before or during foundering, had been of the order of 0.4 degrees, as a result of which the south coast had sunk more than 11,000 feet and the north coast only some 6,000 feet.

We then reconstructed the land profiles to the approximate positions in
which they should have been before the catastrophe. We re-contoured the whole area, raising the north coast by 6,000 feet; the south coast by 11,000 feet; and the intervening area proportionally to the adopted gradient. The result was the outline map shown below.

It was now possible to visualise a great island about the size and shape of Spain, with high mountain ranges rising over 12,000 feet above sea level and impressive rivers running in curving valley systems. In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3,500 square miles, and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, and we shall sea, points in common with the great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the Island of Atlantis.

The study on which we have embarked has two parts. The first is to establish that a large island could have existed in mid-Atlantic in Pre-historic times; the second is to determine whether there could have been a connection between the inhabitants of such an island and our heroes - The Shining Ones.

In our judgement, the first of these parts has been successfully determined; and it is proper, therefore, to proceed with an examination of Plato's detailed description of Atlantis and its inhabitants.

Extract from Chapter 18 The Shining Ones by Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000581#000000
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:44:58 pm
Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean – that is the favourite theory among many scientists all over the world. Just because Plato mentioned an empire in the Atlantic Ocean? No! There is considerable circumstancial evidence for a land bridge or a huge island in the Atlantic Ocean.
According to Plato’s report, Atlantis should be situated between Spain, North Africa and Central America. This is exactly where the Canary Islands are – and the Atlantic Ridge, one of the world’s most unstable regions. Moreover, this is also the location of the Azores and, further westward, the Caribbean area with its huge and small islands.

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantis_karte.jpg)

picture above: In 1665, the German Jesuite priest Athanasius Kircher created this inverted map of Atlantis. Turning the map results in an image of the Central Atlantic plateau around the Azores. What is unusual about that is that people at that time had only little knowledge about the nature of the sea bed. Were some ancient notes available to the Jesuit priests enabling them to create such a map?


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:48:57 pm
From time immemorial, the Atlantic Ridge from Iceland to South America has been an area of considerable seismic activity. Volcanic eruptions and earthquakes are nothing extraordinary.

The Atlantic Ocean – Catastrophes:

In 1669, a major part of the notorious pirate island Port Royal sank due to an disastrous earthquake.

In 1775, Lisbon, which is on a parallel with the Azores at a latitude of 39 43'/36 55' N, was badly hit by a devastating earthquake killing 60 000 people. Moreover, both the harbour and the docks sank 200 metres to the ground.

In 1783, one fifth of the Icelandic population fell victim to a catastrophic earthquake.

In 1811, on the Azores, a volcanic island named “Sambrina“ rose some thousand metres to the surface and sank again shortly after. The islands of Corvi and Flores constantly change their shape and parts of them are swallowed up by the sea.


To the best of present knowledge there is an underwater area with deep valleys and high mountains around the Azores and the Canary Islands. Reducing the sea level by 150 metres to the Ice Age level brings about a huge piece of land which, however, does not match the dimensions Plato wrote about. Nevertheless, further westward, in the Caribbean area, a huge land mass comes into existence which perfectly meets Platos records.

The Atlantic Ocean – Facts:

In 1969, by order of Duke University, an expedition to the Aves Ridge in the Caribbean Sea found granite on fifty locations. Usually, granite is found only onshore or where once had been solid ground.

In 1898, 750 km north of the Azores, the transatlantic cable broke. On this occasion, rock samples were taken from a depth of 17 000 fathoms. A close examination came to the result that the rock samples consisted of tachylyte, a lava-like substance. Yet this mineral would not emerge unless above sea level and under atmospheric pressure. Moreover, it will decompose after 15 000 years. This means that once there had been mainland.

In a depth of up to 1 000 metres, coastal sand was found on the reefs of the Azores. However, it usually only appears on flat beaches.

In 1936, the Geological Society of America conducted a study of sunken river canyons in the Atlantic Ocean. It says that rivers on the European, the North African and the American side sank into the continental sockets for up to 300 km in length and 2 km in depth. That means that in the Pleistocene Age, that is when mankind emerged, the sea level underwent a change in depth up to 2 000 metres.

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/atlantischer_ruecken.gif)

The Atlantic Ridge – one of the world’s most nororious regions in terms of seismic activity. Decreasing the sea level by 300 to 400 metres brings about a huge land mass that would perfectly fit Plato’s descriptions. In “Critias“, Plato writes:


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:50:43 pm
“(...)In the next place, they had fountains, one of cold and another of hot water, in gracious plenty flowing; and they were wonderfully adapted for use by reason of the pleasantness and excellence of their waters. They constructed buildings about them and planted suitable trees, also they made cisterns, some open to the heavens, others roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths (...)“

Usually, these warm and cold springs manifest themselves within continental zones. An example for this is Iceland where people use the warm springs to supply themselves with heat and energy – just as Plato put it.

Yet the Würm Ice Age 12 000 years ago is not a suitable candidate to have reduced the sea level along the Atlantic Ridge. Did, then, the catastrophe in the Atlantic Ocean indeed happen? That desaster with its devastating earthquakes and inundations that caused the mid-Atlantic Ridge to sink? Or is it all about an inundation of the Caribbean area with its shallow waters? Also, the point in time when the glaciers melted would perfectly meet the time of the disappearance of Atlantis as has been indicated by Plato.

Read the following excerpt from the Critias dialogue:

“(...)Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. (...)“


 
 

A further mystery concerns the migrations of the European eels. These animals spawn in the Sargasso Sea west of the United States of America. The newborn eels start their three years long eastbound migration following the Gulf Stream to the European rivers. Having reached sexual maturity they migrate back to the Sargasso Sea within four months, however leaving the Azores to their left this time. It has been proven that the eels need freshwater to reach maturity but why do they venture on this long journey across the Atlantic Ocean?

Could it be that the eels have a genetic memory of a mainland with freshwater in the Atlantic Ocean but cannot find it again because it sank? Is that why they keep on migrating until they reach Europe?

(http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_img/aalwanderung.gif)

Another phenomenon relates to the suicide of the Norwegian lemmings. Every year when their homeland is running short of food, these little rodents start migrating westwards. At the end of their migration they jump into the ocean and continue swimming westwards until they drown. What is it these animals are after in the ocean? Are they following a basic instinct driving them into the ocean? Are they looking for a land that offered them plenty of food a long time ago? Was this land Atlantis, located in the Atlantic Ocean according to Plato?

http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/atlantis/atlantis_atlantic.htm



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:51:37 pm
ANCIENT FOUNDINGS
Did Atlantis exist in the Atlantic Ocean?


We summarize our arguements, referring the most important findings about Atlantis. The evidences was drawn up by the Museum of Atlantis.

1. At the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean was found basalt glassy lava of a mainland and not undersea volcano.
2. In 1898 special machinery brought into the surface of the Atlantic Ocean from 2800 m depth, a rock island 15000 years old which came from a mainland volcano.
3. In the summer of 1927, a crystal cranium from quartz with a movable jaw was found in the jungle of the British Honduran (Central America)!
4. In 1977, with echo sounding machinery, a pyramid was localized in depth of 300 m near the triangle of Vermuda.
5. In Bimini islands which are in the Bahamas islands were found (in 1969) sunk large stones squared or rectangulared of 600 square metres extend similar to those which were found by professor Jacques Cousteau in the small island Dias of Krete (in 1976).
6. In a mountain of Perou in Piscos Bay a very ancient trident (Atlant's symbol) is displayed which is made of white stones with phosphoric brightness "stabbed" in the slope. It has 250 m length and sides of 3,8 m width. This trident leads to a marked airport shaped flat space in Nasca plain which is located 160 km from Pisco. Wide airstrips and radiated corridors are discerned which stand out because they shine. They are formed by rack fragments. When you see this space from above it gives you the impression of an airport with geometrical lines and signs like in the modern airfields.
7. The gravestone with a carved pilot which was found in Palenkoue, near the temple of the Atlants of Mexico
8. The undersea ruins which were found through Soviet research with head the academic Accenof near Madera and the 9500 years smoothed marble stone which was drawn up by the Rusians from the undersea central Atlantic slope (mountain rage)
9. Some very ancient buildings of America belong to this technique of the most ancient buildings of Europe and North Africa as well as many architectural decorative shapes which are similar to both civilizations.
10. Geologists admit that between the Big and the Small Antilles there was land, which was sunk. Furthermore, that the Azores islands and in their extend Madera and the Canary islands are emerged summits of a big undersea volcano mountain range where often happen earthquakes and explosions.

General conclusions


All these foundings show that the large continent of Atlantis was surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean. Its geographical extend approach more to the Central America, the Big and the Small Antilles and the Bahamas, included the space of the Atlantic Ocean up to the Sargassai Sea, expanded normally up to Bermuda and an oblong extend of it reached as far as to the Azores. It was also surrounded by many small islands (sea maps of Atlantis).

http://www.atlantida.gr/engArxaiaEbrimata.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:52:32 pm
 
Morrison

Member
Member # 2156

Member Rated:
   posted 01-29-2006 12:02 AM                       
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Carolyn, the problem with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge as Atlantis is not simply that geologists say that a continent did not exist there. Or that no sunken cities have been found. Personally, I believe that there are some there.

The point is, Atlantis, as described by Plato, was a huge place, and so vast that only a few specific places could have actually been it. There being no theoretical way for a continent to actually sink, we must conclude that only the capital city itself sunk.

Yes, we have cities on the coastlines, like Tartessos, that were said to have sunk, but not continents.

Even Krakatow and Santorini, the two examples most frequently cited as evidence for something like this, are only a fraction the size of what Atlantis is said to have been.

Yet another reason why it makes more sense to search in South America.

Which is where it was.
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Posts: 391 | From: New England | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:53:21 pm
Tom Hebert1
Member
Member # 2835

  posted 01-29-2006 03:24 AM                       
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That's quite a lot of impressive reasearch, Carolyn. I have never put much stock in the continental drift theory. Therefore, I have no problem viewing Atlantis as somewhere in the ocean that carries its name.
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Posts: 908 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:53:53 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 01-30-2006 08:41 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Tom Hebert1:
That's quite a lot of impressive reasearch, Carolyn. I have never put much stock in the continental drift theory. Therefore, I have no problem viewing Atlantis as somewhere in the ocean that carries its name.
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So true, Tom!!

And the Mid-Atlantic Ridge has one other advantage that the others don't have: it's in the Atlantic Ocean, unlike certain "other" so-called Atlantis theories I could name!!!
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:54:14 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 01-30-2006 08:53 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Morrison:
Carolyn, the problem with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge as Atlantis is not simply that geologists say that a continent did not exist there. Or that no sunken cities have been found. Personally, I believe that there are some there.

The point is, Atlantis, as described by Plato, was a huge place, and so vast that only a few specific places could have actually been it. There being no theoretical way for a continent to actually sink, we must conclude that only the capital city itself sunk.

Yes, we have cities on the coastlines, like Tartessos, that were said to have sunk, but not continents.

Even Krakatow and Santorini, the two examples most frequently cited as evidence for something like this, are only a fraction the size of what Atlantis is said to have been.

Yet another reason why it makes more sense to search in South America.

Which is where it was.
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Says you!

Why would a South American Atlantis have any interest in taking over the Mediterranean when they already had a land just as big as Africa to control?? If they were going to conquer something, don't you think they would have started with North America first??

It makes much more sense to have Atlantis at the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

-It's close enough to the Mediterranean to want to attack it.

-The fact that it's volcanic in nature would be pret-ty good incentive to want to conquer some new lands.

-Scientists do say that more of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was above water at one time, more than it is now.

-That area probably got creamed when the Ice Age ended.

-There are hot and warm springs in the Azores just like Plato mentions in Atlantis.

-The locals all have a tradition of coming from Atlantis!

It's the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, baby!!!
 ;)
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:54:35 pm
Smiley4554

Administrator
Member # 332

  posted 02-02-2006 10:18 AM                       
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Carolyn, we are having a discussion about this very thing over on the Atlantis forums under "A study of the Atlantic Ocean Floor".

I hope that you will join us over there with your findings. They will help immensely.

Now, are you trying to find Atlantis? If so, we really need to transfer your topic over to the Atlantis site.

--------------------
"It is not what happens to you in life that matters. It's how you handle what happens to you that counts." Kim

http://www.panoramio.com/user/120220

Please contact me by using the PM on the site. I will respond much faster. Thanks! Kim

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Posts: 5579 | From: Arkansas...USA | Registered: Jan 2001   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:54:57 pm
Smiley4554

Administrator
Member # 332

  posted 02-02-2006 10:21 AM                       
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In the meantime, check out these maps.

http://www.mapquest.com/atlas/?region=natlantc

http://www.mapquest.com/atlas/?region=satlantc

http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es0802/es0802page01.cfm

--------------------
"It is not what happens to you in life that matters. It's how you handle what happens to you that counts." Kim

http://www.panoramio.com/user/120220

Please contact me by using the PM on the site. I will respond much faster. Thanks! Kim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 5579 | From: Arkansas...USA | Registered: Jan 2001   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:55:35 pm
(http://img.mqcdn.com/mqatlasenglish/natlantc)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:55:56 pm
(http://www.mapquest.com/atlas/?region=satlantc)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:56:14 pm
(http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es0802/es0802page01.cfm)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:57:32 pm
 
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 02-02-2006 09:46 PM                       
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Hi Smiley!

Nope, not trying to find Atlantis, just looking for some specific scientific evidence that some of the the good ole Mid-Atlantic Ridge was above sea level at the end of the last Ice age.

Stuff sort of like this:

(http://horn.alein.de/flat-topped.jpg)

http://horn.alein.de/flat-topped.jpg

Thanks for the maps!

I will add some Atlantis-related material to that Atlantic Ocean thread as I find it.

And, by the way, I hope this thread finally puts to rest that annoying dumb blonde stereotype! We're just as good a researchers as anyone else, man are those blonde jokes annoying.
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:59:09 pm
unknown
Hero Member

Posts: 1424



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 10:20:25 pm » Quote 

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Hi Carolyn

Long time no see, Otto Muck wrote a really good Book about Atlantis in the Atlantic called "The Secret of Atlantis" are you familiar with it?


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:59:28 pm
Carolyn Silver
Hero Member

Posts: 316



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 10:29:01 pm » Quote Modify 

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Quote from: unknown on February 16, 2007, 10:20:25 pm
Hi Carolyn

Long time no see, Otto Muck wrote a really good Book about Atlantis in the Atlantic called "The Secret of Atlantis" are you familiar with it?


Howdy Unknown!!

Yep, definitely a long time since  I last talked with you, what has it been a year and a half??  How you been?

The book you are talking about is THE best book on Atlantis, the Secret of Atlantis!  Yes, I have it.  Another person who's research I like a lot is Edgerton Sykes, heard of him?   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:59:44 pm
unknown
Hero Member

Posts: 1424



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 10:35:07 pm » Quote 

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Not to Bad, how have you been

I am not familiar with skyes but if you recommend him I 'll definately check him out.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 09:59:58 pm
Carolyn Silver
Hero Member

Posts: 316



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2007, 10:41:13 pm » Quote Modify 

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Unfortunately, I'm still waiting tables at the Olive Garden, but I have hopes that I'll get out of there someday!!

Either that, or I'll work my way up to manager.

Sykes is this Atlantis researcher who had amassed the BIGGEST collection of research and books related to Atlantis. Scientific stuff, mostly!  When he died in the 1980's, he willed the whole kitten kaboodle over to the A.R.E. Association, which has it now, which might explain why they have so many leads!!


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:00:15 pm
unknown
Hero Member

Posts: 1424



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 10:47:46 pm » Quote 

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Those Cayce people really want to find Atlantis don't they, I have been Atlantis in the Atlantic camp for a long time. I always thought that just the fact that the ocean was named the Atlantic was a big obvious clue. Along with the Pi Reis map showing it there. The change in wind patterns over the Atlantic which changed the weather in europe. The case of the eels that swim all the way across the Atlantic, well... just to many things to mention.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:00:33 pm
Carolyn Silver
Hero Member

Posts: 316



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2007, 11:00:21 pm » Quote Modify 

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Quote from: unknown on February 16, 2007, 10:47:46 pm
Those Cayce people really want to find Atlantis don't they, I have been Atlantis in the Atlantic camp for a long time. I always thought that just the fact that the ocean was named the Atlantic was a big obvious clue. Along with the Pi Reis map showing it there. The change in wind patterns over the Atlantic which changed the weather in europe. The case of the eels that swim all the way across the Atlantic, well... just to many things to mention.


They sure do want to find Atlantis, but, if you ask me, they need to spend a lot more time looking to the east of Bimini, not the Caribbean! It had to be the Azores, even in the Azores, they have legends of Atlantis.  One of their lakes is supposed to have remnants of the capital city at the bottom.

As for the P'reis Map, I'll be danged if I could even make head or tail out of the whole thing!  They say it shows an ice free Antarctica, but I don't see it. 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:01:06 pm
24. THERMAL PROPERTIES OF TAG HYDROTHERMAL PRECIPITATES, MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE, AND COMPARISON WITH MIDDLE VALLEY, JUAN DE FUCA RIDGE1
Peter A. Rona,2 Earl E. Davis,3 and Rainer J. Ludwig4
ABSTRACT


To the few thermal conductivity measurements on sulfides/sulfates reported in the literature, we add 35 new values determined by two different methods for samples cored by Ocean Drilling Program (ODP) Leg 158 from the volcanic-hosted active sulfide mound in the TAG hydrothermal field, located in the rift valley of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge near 26°N, 45°W. Thermal conductivity measurements are essential to calculate heat flow and to model sulfide-hosted hydrothermal flow. Fifteen measurements were made on the ship by the half-space method, using a needle probe on seawater-saturated half-rounds of cores of heterogeneous mixtures of sulfide (predominantly pyrite), quartz, and anhydrite breccias. Values range between 6.1 and 10.4 W/(m·K); one measurement on anhydrite produced a value of 5.4 W/(m·K). At the Pacific Geoscience Centre, the divided bar method was used to measure twenty values on minicores extracted from other half-rounds of cores with similar mixed compositions and saturated with distilled water. These values range between 5.0 and 14.9 W/(m·K).

Despite scatter in the data, thermal conductivity values measured by the half-space method are systematically lower than those measured by the divided bar method. Measurements of sediment-hosted sulfides cored by ODP Leg 139 at the Bent Hill site, located at Middle Valley of the Endeavor segment of the northern Juan de Fuca Ridge, exhibited a similar discrepancy of values. Davis and Seeman (1994) and Gröschel-Becker et al. (1994) consider values produced by the half-space method to be systematically low for material with high conductivity because of a lack of calibration standards and the presence of nonlinear system behavior at high thermal conductivities. The TAG sulfides generally exhibit higher conductivities and lower porosities than the Middle Valley sulfides; this is attributable to higher pyrite content and more pore-filling quartz and/or anhydrite in the TAG location. Values of thermal conductivity measured in sulfides at both TAG and Middle Valley are high compared with values of seafloor sediment and basalt, which typically range between 1 and 2 W/(m·K). This marked contrast indicates that seafloor sulfide bodies may act as foci of conductive heat flow in addition to the spectacular convective thermal transfer by black smoker and diffuse venting.

1Herzig, P.M., Humphris, S.E., Miller, D.J., and Zierenberg, R.A. (Eds.), 1998. Proc. ODP, Sci. Results, 158: College Station, TX (Ocean Drilling Program).
2Peter A. Rona, Institute of Marine and Coastal Sciences and Department of Geological Sciences, Rutgers University, 71 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901-0521, U.S.A. rona@ahab.rutgers.edu
3Earl E. Davis, Geological Survey of Canada, Pacific Geoscience Centre, P.O. Box 6000, Sidney, British Columbia V8L 4B2, Canada.
4Rainer J. Ludwig, SOEST, University of Hawaii at Manoa, 2525 Correa Road, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822, U.S.A.

http://www-odp.tamu.edu/publications/158_SR/ABSTRACT/24.HTM


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:01:29 pm
unknown
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Posts: 1424



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2007, 11:15:24 pm » Quote 

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That Lemmings thing is pretty cool... It never accured to me that they would be trying to get somewhere but it makes sense


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:01:45 pm
Carolyn Silver
Hero Member

Posts: 335



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2007, 11:26:19 pm » Quote Modify 

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They have a memory of land that was once there!  I saw another Azores special that claimed that gulls circle around a particular place in the ocean, too, as if there was once land there and now isn't!  It's Atlantis, baby!!! 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:03:25 pm
unknown
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Posts: 1424



     Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2007, 03:12:16 am » Quote 

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gotta be 
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:03:55 pm
THE ICE AGE & THE OCEANS

Sea-level changes and the Pleistocene Ice Age


Sea-level has been close to its present level for the past 6000 years, before which it was lower and fluctuating, last achieving its present position about 120,000 years ago. About 15,000-16,000 years ago, sea-level was 130-140 m below its present position. For the past 500,000 years it has been lower than today about 90% of the time.

These major changes coincide with the Ice Age. The last 1.65 million years of geological time -- the “Quaternary” -- is split into the Pleistocene and the Holocene epochs. The latter represents the last 10,000 years when most of the icesheets had melted.

Sea-level falls coincide with periods of glaciation whereas the rises occur during interglacials -- the warmer times between ice advances, like the present day and most of the Holocene.

The onset of the Ice Age began about 40 million years when surface waters in the southern oceans suddenly cooled and the deep ocean basins quickly filled with water ~10°C cooler than before that sank because of its increased density. By about 15 million years ago, the Antarctic Icecap had formed, accelerating production of cold waters. Consequently, siliceous diatom oozes became more abundant in the southern oceans because of increased upwelling that resulted from steeper temperature, and density, gradients.

About 6–5 million years ago, Miocene Epoch, sea-level fell by as much as 50 m, probably associated with expansion of the icecap in Antarctica. Termed the Messinian Event, this might have caused the Mediterranean Sea to dry up over ~1,000 years, producing vast salt deposits, preserved in the sediments of the sea floor.

About 5 million years ago there followed a brief warming trend and sea-level rose again leaving shallow marine sediments inland of modern coastlines around much of the world. Fossil floras and faunas show that climates were generally warmer than today -- Iceland had a temperate climate; southern England was subtropical.

Between 2 and 3 million years ago, ice caps began to form in the northern hemisphere.

During times of glacier growth, areas near glaciers experienced very cold conditions. Regions away from glaciers also experienced varied climates as climatic belts shifted. Because the world ocean temperatures became cooler, there was less evaporation; consequently, much of the world was drier than today. In contrast, some areas that are arid today were much wetter during times of glacial growth. For example, the temperate, sub-tropical and tropical zones were compressed toward the equator by the expanding cold belts – rain that now falls in the Mediterranean fell on the Sahara; the southwestern U.S. was wetter during glacial times because the high-pressure zone over the northern icecap deflected Pacific winter storms southward. Many salt lakes in the western US e.g., Great Salt Lake and Death Valley, were then flooded and greatly expanded.

Information on Quaternary climates comes from many sources – e.g., glacial features and deposits, pollen and sediments on the seafloor. The evidence from terrestrial deposits suggests that Pleistocene glaciation covered 27 million km2 or about three times the present area occupied by ice. The evidence from glacial deposits, mainly tills, in North America suggests at least four main glacial episodes, separated by warmer interglacials when the ice fronts melted back or retreated. In Europe, at least seven advances have been recognized. Part of the problem is that the advancing ice commonly erodes the deposits of earlier glaciations.

In the early 1960’s, Pleistocene ocean-floor sediments were examined for the first time for evidence of ice age climates. They showed that the glacial advances and retreats were far more complex than formerly believed. The evidence from the deep-sea oozes reflects changes in ocean temperatures and ocean water chemistry that can be related to climatic conditions.

The main evidence has come from fossil planktonic foraminifera on the ocean floor. Cores are recovered of the near surface sediments, which are then washed and sieved to concentrate the foraminifera shells = calcium carbonate. Some species are sensitive to warm or cold water, so by examining their distribution in a core, one can determine whether the overlying ocean water was warm or cool. Some species migrate to warmer waters when the ocean surface cools. For example, one species, Globorotalia menardii, is only found near the equator during cool glacial periods, but is found in higher latitudes during warmer interglacial periods.

Other planktonic foraminifera change their coiling direction in response to temperature fluctuations. The Pleistocene species, Globorotalia truncatulinoides coils to the right in water temperatures >10°C, while to the left in water <8-10°. Detailed climatic curves can be reconstructed from coiling ratios.

A widely used method is to measure the ratio of the isotopes 18O to 16O in the CaCO3 of planktonic foraminifera shells. Isotopes: all atoms of an element have the same number of protons in the nucleus, but may have different numbers of neutrons. Those having different numbers of neutrons are isotopes of the element: e.g., oxygen 16, oxygen 18.

The abundance of these two oxygen isotopes is related to the amount of oxygen in seawater when the shell is formed. The exact ratio of these two isotopes reflects the amount of ocean water stored in glacier ice. When water is evaporated from the oceans and precipitated on land to form glaciers, water containing the lighter 16O isotope is more easily evaporated than water containing the heavier 18O isotope. Consequently, Pleistocene glaciers contained more of the lighter isotope, while the oceans became enriched in the heavier isotope. These changes are recorded in the shells of planktonic foraminifera, which take up oxygen in their shells as calcium carbonate = CaCO3.

When the sediments have been dated by radiometric methods - radiocarbon dating and methods that data volcanic ash falls = the chronology of glacial and interglacial periods can be interpreted. Many more glacial/interglacial phases are suggested from the oceans than the records of glacial deposits on land. About 18 glacial expansions are recognized from deep-sea cores, increasing in intensity toward the latter part of the Pleistocene. Tying the sedimentary records from the oceans and land together, correlation, has proved difficult except for the youngest glacial periods . . .


http://www.usask.ca/geology/classes/geol206/iceoceans.html
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:14:10 pm
Variability During the Last Ice Age: Dansgaard-Oeschger Events

Abrupt changes did not begin during the Younger Dryas. Throughout the last glacial period (60,000 to 20,000 years ago), abrupt warming and cooling events, called Dansgaard-Oeschger or D-O events occurred in the North Atlantic. Greenland ice core records reveal that during the last glacial, the climate system abruptly shifted into, and then back out of, warm, close-to-interglacial conditions 23 times. Each oscillation consisted of gradual cooling followed by an abrupt warming.

Related to some of the coldest D-O intervals were distinctive events, recorded in North Atlantic marine sediments, of changes in the delivery of icebergs to the ocean and the amount of ice-rafted sand transported southward by the icebergs.

These Heinrich events in the sediment record resulted from changes in ocean circulation and iceberg melting, and were clear indications that cold polar waters extended farther south, carrying ice-rafted material from northern regions ( Bond et al. 1992, Bond & Lotti 1995). The events may have been accompanied by an influx of freshwater into the North Atlantic, through increased melting. Scientists have hypothesized that reduced deepwater formation may have accompanied these dramatic, but temporary, shifts of the Earth's climate. This is currently an area of active research (Maslin et al. 1995).

Cariaco Basin Sediment and GISP2 Ice Core Comparisons

Figure 19a. Abrupt climate events called Dansgaard-Oeschger events are found in Greenland ice cores, and some other locations such as the Cariaco Basin in the Caribbean Sea. Warm (interstadial) events are numbered in the ice core (red). Less negative numbers in the oxygen isotope ratio indicate warmer conditions in Greenland. In the Cariaco Basin sediment cores (green), highly reflective sediment layers indicate light green mud, and signals ocean climate and circulation associated with low plankton productivity. The data are significant because they reveal ocean-wide climate changes occuring within a century or less, altering the temperatures in the far North Atlantic, and the sea surface conditions close to the equator. In both regions, conditions appear to flip back and forth between two different states.



More recently, Bond and colleagues (Bond et al. 2001) have correlated the events in the North Atlantic with changes in solar output (the latter derived from proxy records in ice cores and tree rings). Their conclusion is that small, gradual changes in solar output crossed thresholds in the climate system, and that changes in thermohaline circulation resulted in abrupt shifts in the Earth's climate system.

Like the Younger Dryas, these events have had a hemispheric to global footprint. They were seen in sediment cores off the coast of Africa (Zhao et al. 1995), off the coast of Venezuela (Peterson et al. 2000), in the Arabian Sea (Schulz et al. 1998), and in Hulu Cave in China (Wang et al. 2001). The magnitude of change outside the North Atlantic, and more generally the geographic extent of abrupt change in temperature and precipitation during the last glacial, are currently topics of intense research.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/abrupt/data_glacial2.html
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:14:44 pm
Looking Farther into the Past

Most scientists believe that glacial-interglacial cycles are the result of relatively gradual, periodic changes in the Earth's orbital parameters that influence the seasonal distribution of solar radiation striking the surface of the earth. However, the record clearly shows that the transition between states was anything but gradual. The rapid climate response to the gradual changes in solar radiation is one of the most dramatic examples of abrupt climate change.

Because of its length, multiple data sets, and precision in dating, the Vostok ice core from Antarctica is one of our best records of glacial-interglacial cycling. One of the interesting perspectives from Vostok is the nearly simultaneous changes in temperature, carbon dioxide, and methane through time. The Vostok record also shows the sawtooth character of the glacial-interglacial cycle. Temperature and carbon dioxide decreased in a series of progressively cooler steps towards glacial maximum conditions. Each glacial state ended abruptly with a rapid transition to the full interglacial state marked by the warmest temperatures and highest levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Why the Antarctic region was cold during periods when southern hemisphere solar radiation was high is the subject of current investigation. The evidence suggests that the southern hemisphere cooling was driven by the reduced solar energy in the northern hemisphere. As the northern hemisphere cooled, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere dropped. The drop in concentrations of this radiatively important greenhouse gas then caused cooling in the southern hemisphere.


Figure 20. Because of its length, multiple data sets, and precision in dating, the Vostok ice core from Antarctica is one of our best records of glacial-interglacial cycling. One of the interesting perspectives from Vostok is the nearly simultaneous changes in temperature, carbon dioxide, and methane through time.

Data Links
For more on the GISP2 and GRIP ice core projects and their data, see NOAA Paleoclimatology's Greenland ice core projects page.
The Alley (2000) Greenland snow accumulation and temperature reconstructon can be found on that page as well.
Hulu cave data can be found at Wang et al. 2001
Data from the Cariaco basin off Venezuela include:
Haug et al. 2001 Cariaco Basin Trace Metal Data

Hughen et al 1996 Tropical Atlantic Deglacial Climate Change Data

Hughen et al. 2000 Synchronous Radiocarbon and Climate Shifts During the Last Deglaciation

Lea et al. 2003 Cariaco Basin Foraminiferal Mg/Ca and SST Reconstruction

Peterson et al 2000 Cariaco Basin Reflectance, Bulk Elemental Data

Data from the Vostok ice core can be found at NOAA Paleoclimatology's Vostok Data page.
The North Atlantic record of Heinrich events can be found at Bond et al 1992 Heinrich Event Data, DSDP 609.
The Arabian Sea record of Heinrich events can be found at Schulz et al. 1998 Arabian Sea Stable Isotope and TOC Data

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/abrupt/data_glacial3.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:15:04 pm
Abrupt Climate Change During Glacial Times
The Younger Dryas


Some of the best-documented events are dramatic, rapid rearrangements of the entire climate system as the earth shifted from glacial (ice age) to interglacial (warm) periods. These events include the prominent Younger Dryas event, as well as the numerous Dansgaard/Oeschger events.

The Younger Dryas was an over 1,000 year long cold period between the last ice age and modern conditions. The Earth's climate abruptly warmed at the end of the last glacial period approximately 14,500 years ago. It then cooled back to glacial conditions over the next 3,000 years. After 1,000 years of conditions comparable to the last glacial climate, the Earth's climate suddenly warmed, with much of the change happening in less than a decade.


Figure 18. Ice core reconstruction of temperature and snow accumulation from Alley 2000.

The Younger Dryas is best known from two sources. Originally, it was described from pollen data, denoting a period when the cold-loving dryas flowers were much more common across much of Europe. It was not until the 1989-1994 U.S. and European projects GISP2 and GRIP drilled their long ice cores in Greenland that scientists could understand the rapidity with which climate changed during the Younger Dryas ( Alley 2000, Cuffey and Clow 1997). As you can see from the GISP2 data (Figure 18), temperatures rapidly rose around 10° C in a very short time around 11,500 B.P. Detailed analysis of the ice cores revealed that most of the increase occurred in less than a decade.

Hulu Cave Record

Figure 19. Comparison of oxygen isotope records in a Greenland ice core (red) and a stalagmite from Hulu Cave, China (blue). The Younger Dryas event is well known as an abrupt cool event in the North Atlantic region (more negative values indicate colder conditions in Greenland). The significance of the Hulu Cave record is that a concident change occured half-way around the world in summer rainfall. More negative values for Hulu Cave are interpreted pimarily as an indicator of more summer monsoon rainfall relative to winter rainfall. Thus the east Asian summer monsoon was weaker during the Younger Dryas when the North Atlantic was cooler. The time 16,000 to 10,000 years before present spans the transition from the glacial to interglacial state.


Unlike some abrupt change events, records of the Younger Dryas can be found from around the globe. The recent stalagmite record from Hulu cave (figure 19) shows that the changes in oxygen isotopes found in Greenland ice are matched in cave deposits in eastern China (Wang et al. 2001).

Records of the Younger Dryas are prominent across most of the northern hemisphere, and some manifestations of the event may spread worldwide. The Younger Dryas has now been even more precisely dated using sediments from the tropical Atlantic off Venezuela ( Hughen et al. 1996, Hughen et al. 2000, Haug et al 2001, Lea et al. 2003).

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/abrupt/data_glacial.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:16:31 pm
The Paleo-Indian Catastrophe Connection

The Carolina Bays
By George A. Howard
First Draft 1997



Dover Bay Wetland Restoration Site, Lenoir County, North Carolina



Carolina Bays northwest of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Please see also: Bob Kobres' page

George Washington visits the Carolina Bays



North Carolina's first naturalist, John Lawson, stripped naked with his party in 1709 to cross a swamp he called a "Thick Percoarson" (A New Voyage to Carolina, 1709, Lawson). It may be that Lawson was struggling through what today we call a Carolina Bay. Since Lawson’s time, generations of observers have been frustrated and fascinated by the low, wet pocks in the ground scattered from Delaware to Florida. These shallow, oriented, depressions -- some filled with water and many named as lakes, most in a vegetated wetland state -- are unlike any other natural feature of the American landscape. Subtle when seen from the ground, dramatic unmistakable ellipses when viewed from the air, Carolina Bays define the "front yard" of America.

Yet, the process which created these wonderful features of our environment remains an open question. This paper will investigate the nature of the Carolina Bays, the obscure debate regarding their origin, and reveal new information that demands further study by the scientific community.

A description of characteristics

Carolina Bays (so named for the profusion of Bay trees they support) are first distinctive because of their uniform nature. Unlike virtually any other bodies of water or changes in elevation (Kacrowski), these topographical features follow a reliable and unmistakable pattern. Carolina Bays are circular, typically stretched, elliptical depressions in the ground, oriented along their long axis from the Northwest to the Southeast. As seen in the photo below, they are further characterized by an elevated rim of fine sand surrounding the perimeter and defining a unique interior ecosystem.

Click below to check out a high resolution infrared photo of numerous Carolina Bay's

along the Cape Fear River in Bladen, Columbus and Pender counties, North Carolina.




Though uniform in the broad sense, the Bays are dramatically different in the particulars of their measurements and hydrology. The length of Bays ranges from Lake Waccamaw, N.C., at 7 miles, to depressions only 200 feet long, with a median length of approximately 1/4 mile. The depth of Bays ranges from 0 to 23 feet below the elevation of the surrounding terrain. (Kacrowski). Eyton and Parkhurst detail additional characteristics of Carolina Bays below:



1. The Carolina Bays are ellipses and tend to become more elliptical with increasing size. Many bays, however, lack true bilateral symmetry along either the major or minor axis. The southeast portion of many bays is more pointed than the northwest end and the northeast side bulges slightly more than the southwest side. Known major axis dimensions vary from approximately 200 feet to 7 miles.

2. The Carolina Bays display a marked alignment with northwest-southeast being the preferred orientation. Although there are minor local fluctuations, deviations from the preferred orientation appear to be systematic by latitude (Prouty, 1952).

3. The bays are shallow depressions below the general topographic surface with a maximum depth of about 50 feet. Large bays tend to be deeper than small bays, but the deepest portion of any bay is offset to the southeast from the bay center.

4. Many bays have elevated sandy rims with maximum development to the southeast. Both single and multiple rims occur,

and the inner ridge of a multiple rim is less well developed than the outer rim. Rim heights vary from 0 to 23 feet.

5. Carolina Bays frequently overlap other bays without destroying the morphology of either depression. One or more small bays can be completely contained in a larger bay.

6. Some bays contain lakes, some are boggy, others are either naturally or artificially drained and are farmed, and still others are naturally dry.

7. The stratigraphy beneath the bays is not distorted (Preston and Brown, 1964; Thom, 1970).

8. Bays occur only in unconsolidated sediments. Bays in South Carolina are found on relict marine barrier beaches associated with Pleistocene sea level fluctuations, in dune fields, on stream terraces and sandy portions of backbarrier flats (Thom, 1970). No bays occur on modern river flood plains and beaches. Bays exist on marine terraces as much as 150 feet above sea level in South Carolina but also occur on discontinuous veneers of fluvial gravels on the Piedmont in Virginia (Goodwin and Johnson, 1970).

9. Carolina Bays appear to be equally preserved on terraces of different ages and formational processes.

10. Bays occur in linear arrays, in complex clusters of as many as fourteen bays, as scattered individuals, and in parallel groups aligned along the minor axes 11. Bays are either filled or partly filled with both organic and inorganic materials. The basal unit in some bays is a silt believed to represent loess deposited in water.

12. No new bays appear to be forming although Thom (1970) and Frey (1954) cite evidence for recent enlargement of existing Carolina Bays. Price (1968) states that most bays appear to be getting smaller by infilling.

13. Bays are underlain by carbonate, clastic and crystalline bedrock overlain by variable thicknesses of unconsolidated sediments in which the bays are found.

14. Ghosts of semi-obliterated Carolina Bays appear to represent former bays which were filled after formation by terrestrial sediments and organic materials.

15. Small bays deviate further from the mean orientation per region than large bays do.

16. No variation in the heavy mineral suite was found along a traverse of the major axis of one South Carolina bay, even though samples were taken from the bay floor, bay rim and the adjacent non-bay terrace (Preston and Brown, 1964).


The image above kicked off the Carolina Bay debate in 1933.



The range and number of Carolina Bays are a significant (if crudely catalogued) factor in their description. Bays are identified along the entire range of the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard, from New Jersey to Florida, and increase in frequency to a highest concentration along the border of North and South Carolina.



(Fig2) The "Long Axis" of individual Carolina Bays all converge in a single region.

Estimates of the total number of Bays within this range are from 500,000, to 2.5 million (if faint so-called "ghost" features are included.) Along the highest area of concentration, single counties are pocked with thousands upon thousands of Carolina Bays. Dr. Tom Ross of Pembroke State University is in the process of counting the Bays in Robeson County from Soil and Conservation Service soil maps. Ross's efforts, though still underway, have thus far yielded over 8,800 bays in Robeson County alone. (PC Tom Ross.)

Geomorphic Origin

The precise geomorphologic process responsible for creating these extraordinary features has long been debated, and more than a dozen theories of origin are commonly cited in the Carolina Bay literature:

* Marine theories include sand bar dams across drowned valleys (Glenn, 1895); swales in underwater sand dunes (Glenn, 1895); submarine scour by eddies, currents and undertow (Melton, 1934); progressive lagoon segmentation (Cooke, 1934); gyroscopic eddies (Cooke, 1940; 1954); and fish nests created by the simultaneous waving of fish fins in unison over submarine artesian springs (Grant, 1945). Subaerial hypotheses include artesian spring sapping (Toumey, 1848); peat burning by paleo-Indians (Wells and Boyce, 1953); eolian deflation and/or deposition (Raisz, 1934; Price, 1951, 1958, 1968; and Carson and Hussey, 1962); solution (Johnson, 1936; Lobeck, 1939; Le Grand, 1953; and Shockley and others, 1956); periglacial thaw lakes tWolfe, 1953); wind deflation combined with perched water tables and lake shore erosion at a 90o angle to the prevailing wind (Thom, 1970); artesian spring sapping and eolian deposition (Johnson, 1936); and progressive lagoon segmentation modified by eolian processes stabilized by climatic changes (Price, 1951, 1958, 1968).

In general, however, the debate is properly divided into two camps: those who propose a number of terrestrial mechanisms operating together to form the Bays, and others who conclude that a single encounter with a space borne object best accounts for their unusual characteristics. The fifty odd year exchange between these two groups reveals a fundamental division of geological science and, indeed, other earth and human historical sciences. The question at hand is an old one: Are all earth's features and geological phenomena best explained by slow mechanisms, identifiable today and operating over long periods of time -- or is it reasonable to include dramatic, if seemingly rare, catastrophic events as punctuating factors in earth's evolution? The search for the origin of the Carolina Bays is heavily, and negatively, influenced by this wider dispute.

The Debate Begins

The scientific dispute concerning the origin of Carolina Bays debate began ironically with the arrival of seemingly unrelated science, aerial photography.

In the 1930's, county by county aerial photographs were mandated by the Roosevelt Administration as part of the government's effort to provide stability and assistance to farmers in the Depression. (Savage p.21) When first examined, these photographs revealed to astonished Southern farmers and scientists alike an incredible array of elliptical, repeating patterns in the previously familiar landscape. It is easy to imagine the wonder expressed by the locals at the sight of the magnitude and symmetry of the Carolina Bays viewed from aerial photographs. These were structures that for generations had been regarded only as a peculiar nuisance. Many observers were quick to conclude that the depressions were obviously remnant scars from a collision of a number of bodies with Earth (Savage p. 21).



An article from popular Harpers Weekly was typical of press reports that fired the nation's imagination:

"The comet plunged down with a hiss that shook the mountains, with a crackle that opened the sky. Beneath the down plunging piston of star, compressed air gathered. Its might equaled and then exceeded that of the great star itself. It burst the comet nucleus. It pushed outward a scorching wind that must have shoved the waters upon the European shores, and on land leveled three hundred foot pines, spreading them radially outward like matches in a box. The comet struck, sending debris skyward, curtaining the east, darkening the west. Writhing clouds of steam swirled with writhing clouds of earth. For ten minutes there was a continuous bombardment, and the earth heaved and shook. For 500 miles around the focal spot of 190,000 square miles, the furnace snuffed out every form of life."

"The Comet That Hit The Carolinas" Edna Murrow, Harpers Magazine, 1933

This conclusion is fantastic even today. In the 1930's it was more striking. At the time, scientists were only beginning to come to grips with earth craters and impact evidence. Many geologists of the day were still taught that Meteor Crater in the Arizona desert was the only extant evidence, world-wide, of a large collision ever having taken place. Today, more than 300 craters are cataloged with additional features being regularly discovered.

The Search

Frank A. Melton and William Schriever of the University of Oklahoma were the first to mount an effort to locate conclusive evidence of multiple impacts in the Carolinas. Like William Prouty (the former Chair UNC Department of Geology and life long supporter and contributor to the "extraterrestrial" theory) their research was inconclusive. .

Field surveys were notable for their failure to locate any meteoritic material, or other features traditionally associated with meteor strikes (Ray Kacrowski, 1977, Carolina Bays: A Comparison with Modern Oriented Lakes, p 25-35). The researchers, however, should not be faulted for their lack of determination. Hundreds of Bays were examined in difficult field conditions (Savage) and included detailed magnetometer surveys suggesting buried material in certain locations, but failing to locate samples or produce consistent results .

Obviously, the early "extraterrestrial" researchers had a problem on their hands. Though the Bays strongly suggested a causal link to energy directed from above, the science of the day demanded that at least some hard evidence of "rocks from space" be produced in order for their hypothesis to be accepted as conclusive. This evidence was never produced.

Though early reports of the Bays had caused excitement among the public, which readily accepted the strike hypothesis, other scientists joined to oppose the idea that Bays were anything more than atypical kaarst features, subject to and resulting from commonly recognized aeolian and solution processes (essentially unusual lakes formed by a combination of wind, water and waves.)

Chief among the critics of the collision theory was Douglas A. Johnson, who proposed his own hypothesis which Savage terms the "artesian-solution-lacustrine-aeolian" process. (Savage p. 53) Johnson envisioned a vast series of artesian springs from which water flowed after traveling under great pressure underground from the mountains to the coastal plain. These springs, according to Johnson, would have eroded the marl and unconsolidated sediments through which they flowed. The resulting pool of surface water would, as a result, appear steadily more elongated to the ground observer in response to the migrating source. Johnson then theorized a steady and consistent wind from the Northwest which would further "scallop out" the water body, creating the oriented, elliptical depressions we see today.

Johnson's theory, or variations of it, is still accepted today by most of the scientific community. It was particularly bolstered by what appears to be the last serious investigation of Bay origin, led in 1977 by Ray Kacrowski. In his NASA funded report, "The Carolina Bays: A Comparison with Modern Oriented Lakes," Kacrowski sought to debunk the impactual theory by providing the missing piece of the puzzle: Where in the world are analogous features which exhibit similar characteristics and exist under currently operating geomorphologic influences?

Kacrowski found his similar features in three far flung corners of the Western Hemisphere: East Texas, Chile and the North Slope of Alaska. In each of these regions the researcher and his graduate assistants personally examined wind oriented lakes he postulated were Bays "in the making." Indeed, after returning home to Columbia, he rented a wind machine and proceeded to blow pools of water in a sandbox into faintly "Bay-like" shapes.

This study seems to have concluded the long and difficult dispute over the origin of Carolina Bays. Kacrowski provided the proponents of terrestrial causation with similar features of supposedly similar formation, while the other camp was justifiably exhausted and weakened after years of derision for their failure to have located hard evidence, or even precisely describe the nature of the event which the Bays had intuitively suggested.

Contrary Evidence

Others, however, were never as convinced as the general scientific and academic community that the wind theories of Johnson and Kacrowski had adequately described the geomorphology of Carolina Bays. Henry Savage, in a carefully argued treatise befitting his occupation as a trial lawyer, banker, mayor and naturalist, found very little new in Kacrowski's "evidence" of similar processes forming Bays around the world. His chief objection to Kacrowski's conclusions called into question the researchers claim that other areas are truly analogous to Carolina Bays. In his book, The Mysterious Carolina Bays, he skillfully challenges the reliability of Kacrowski:

"That Kacrowski, the current leader of the wind theorists, found it necessary to journey all but literally to the ends of the earth to view features on harsh landscapes in fierce climes that only faintly resemble Carolina Bays speaks for the uniqueness of the Carolina Bay phenomena, particularly when the striking images brought back from those places are contrasted with Carolina Bays. Even more pertinent questions confronting the wind origin theorists are nearer at hand. How, for example can they account for regional winds being so much more emphatic in their earth sculpturing activities in the border region of the Carolinas than elsewhere in the region? How can they with credibility attribute to winds, notoriously symbolic of instability and vagaries, the creation of beautifully sculptured, almost perfectly elliptical overlapping Bays without semblance of distortion of either? If they are familiar with the tenacity of the root bound earth of Southern ponds, how can they reasonable espouse a wind genesis of the Bays in the face of the knowledge imparted to us by those pollen studies of the paleobotanists."



Savage's points are good ones. It is difficult to understand how the study of Bay origin should suddenly cease, as it did, simply because someone had catalogued faintly similar features, formed in a context which is provably different. Various studies indicate that the environment at the time of Bay formation, broadly 10,000 to 20,000 years BP, hardly resembled the treeless windswept plains of the locales visited by Kacrowski. (The Age and Trophic History of Lake Waccamaw, North Carolina, J. C. STAGER and L. B. CAHOON Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Carolina at Wilmington, Kobres PC.) Kacrowski also failed to address numerous additional features unique to Caroina Bays, such as Bays within Bays, and Bays intersecting other Bays.

Fortunately, the search for the origin of Carolina Bays was not completely abandoned following Kacrowski's flawed study and Savage's careful critique.

Robert Kobres, an independent researcher in Athens, Georgia, has studied Carolina Bays for nearly 20 years in conjunction with his larger interest in impact threats from space. His recent, self-published, investigations have profound consequences for Carolina Bay study and demand research by academia as serious, relevant and previously unexamined new information. The essence of Kobres' theory is that the search for "debris," and the comparison of Bays with "traditional" impact craters, falsely and naively assumes that circular craters with extraterrestrial material in them are the only terrestrial evidence of past encounters with objects entering earth's atmosphere.

The last twenty years have seen an explosion of evidence that earth has often encountered objects that profoundly alter our environment (Lewis, Rain of Iron and Ice ). For instance, it is now commonly accepted that an impact with a large object in the Gulf of Mexico caused the extinction of large dinosaurs -- a theory considered bizarre and irresponsible at the time Kacrowski studied the Bays.

Kobres goes a logical step further by assuming that forces associated with incoming bodies, principally intense heat, should also leave visible signatures on the earth. And, finally, that physics does not demand that a "collision" of the bodies need necessarily occur to produce enormous change on earth.

To verify that such encounters are possible outside of the physics lab, we need look no further than the so-called "Tunguska event." On June 30, 1908, in the vicinity of the Tunguska River deep in Siberia, a tremendous explosion instantly leveled 2000 sq. km. of tundra, felling trees by the millions, all left pointing outward from a central area. News accounts of the day told of Londoners being able to read newspapers from the glow of the night sky for days afterward, and seismographs worldwide recording an apparent cataclysm in Siberia. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be) the explosion had occurred in an area so remote, and during a time of such political turmoil, that no researcher pinpointed or even managed to travel to the suspected impact site for more than two decades.

Not until pioneer Russian meteoritic researcher Leonard Kulik managed to gain entry to the inhospitable area in 1927, did anyone but local tribesmen view the devastation and its peculiar nature.

(At the epicenter of the explosion lay not a large crater with a "rock" in it, as might be expected, but nothing more than a number of "neat oval bogs." The Tunguska literature generally mentions the bogs only in passing, since Kulik failed in digs there to locate any evidence of a meteorite and went on to examine other aspects of the explosion. (http://www.usm.maine.edu/~planet/pic10.html) Perhaps ironically, Melton and Schriver, around the same time and on the opposite side of the world, were fruitlessly searching their own "neat, oval bogs" for evidence of a meteor, neither apparently having the knowledge of Kulik's efforts, or vice versa.)

It is generally accepted today that the Tunguska event can only be attributed to a rare encounter with a "comet," or incoming body of such a nature that it left no stony or ferrous material, but simply vaporized and scorched the earth below in a rare display of high energy physics.


To explain the Bays, Kobres proposes a similar encounter, albeit of larger proportions and more accurately described as a "near miss." The "Kobres Event" proposes that a "comet," if you like, whipped past the Earth, exchanging enormous energy but not impacting directly to form a typical crater. It is demonstrable that such an encounter would show an intense flash of heat onto the ground below. This heat would have caused moister portions in the Pleistocene landscape to explode into steam, leaving the depressions in the ground that we know today as "Carolina Bays."

Kulik's "neat, oval bogs" in Siberian Russia, are then, to Kobres, logical analogies to the Carolina Bays: the result of intense heat causing the summer melt ponds of the area to explode and leave signature elliptical depressions.

Smoking Guns

Kobres' conclusion would be just another addition to the long list of formation theories had he not uncovered a previously unexamined analogy to the Carolina Bays. Completely absent from the controversy prior to his study is any comparison of so-called "maar" features with "Carolina Bays "

Found all over the world in volcanic areas, maar features are relatively well understood. Geologists consider them the result of a sudden encounter between moist ground and up-welling volcanic heat. In their particulars, Maar features resemble Carolina Bays more neatly than any lakes proposed by Kacrowski.

"Maars" come in groups, some seeming to orient themselves in relation to others, with many (presumably more recent) Maars exhibiting the "rims" previously unique to Bays.

(The Cerro Colorado volcano, a maar feature in the Pinacate Volcanic Field of northern Mexico, presents this author with the clearest "cousin" to a typical Carolina Bay.)

Assuming the lack of any geologically recent volcanic activity on the North American Atlantic Coastal Plain, Kobres believes Maar features to have an analogous, not identical, nature to Carolina Bays. In this formulation, the "Bays" and the "Maars" are both signatures of powerful steam explosions, with the heat having come from different sources.

Put another way, Kobres believes Bays should be considered "top-induced" maars, formed by heat from above, as opposed to "true" Maars, which have volcanic and subterranean origins.


Beaver and Bays

Another line of Kobres' investigation is enlightening, particularly to those puzzled by the seeming "arrangement" of Bays within inter-stream divides.

Large beavers, he supposes, created pools of water that efficiently collected radiant energy from the sky and suddenly exploded into super-heated steam.

The arrangement of Bays in many instances resembles the documented relation of beaver ponds to one another. If such an arrangement of large shallow ponds were visited by a sudden and scorching heat from above, one might conclude that the resulting explosions would leave relatively arranged "craters."

As incredible as this may seem, at first, no portion of this theory is impossible or even improbable. Like mammoth, large saber toothed cats, giant ground sloth and other now extinct Pleistocene mammals, giant beaver were residents of the Bay area in relatively recent times. Skeletons and remains of these enormous beasts are found all over the world, many dating to around the time of Bay formation, which generally coincides with the sudden global climatic transition from the Pleistocene to the Holocene age around 12,000 years ago.

Scientists have long puzzled over the apparent climate shift at this time (Younger Drayas). A relatively mild world of large mammals and abundant resources turned suddenly to a harsh clime as cold as the coldest times of the last Ice Age. The suddenness is most strikingly suggested by the frozen mammoth unearthed in Russia through the years. Some with flowering vegetative remains still in their stomachs.

It is not difficult to conclude in fact that Kobres' may have defined evidence of the event marking the dawn of the modern climatic age -- and the subsequent rise of agricultural man, who had to work harder than his Pleistocene ancestors to ensure a living.

Other Evidence

Additional support for such a hypothesis is available from other reliable sources. I have culled from extensive readings of North Carolina's natural history, what could well be eyewitness accounts of the event itself.

Allow me to pass along the following accounts of legends passed down among Native Americans concerning the origin of the Bay lakes on whose shores they long lived:

Of Lake Mattamuskeet:

".....kneeling at a sacrificial alter, she prayed to the Great Spirit to save the brave and her perishing people. After her invocation, a star fell to the earth, and rain soon followed. Days and days of rain quenched the fire. Great holes burned in the earth by the fire were filled, forming a great inland sea." (Algonquin Indian legend, Touring the Backroads of North Carolina's Upper Coast, p.268)

Of Lake Waccamaw

"The local Indians are known as the "People of the Falling Star," and they believed the lake was created by a falling star, perhaps a great meteorite." (Waccamaw-Siouan Indian legend, Wild Shores, Exploring the Wilderness Areas of Eastern North Carolina. p.150)



It is perfectly reasonable to conclude that if such a cataclysm occurred during a known time of known human habitation on the North American Atlantic Coastal Plain (approximately 10,000 -15,000 BP) legends would be told to relate the horror to future generations.

Kobres and a growing number of other researchers have assembled a variety of accounts from around the globe describing tremendous cataclysms directed from above.

From Chinese silks, to petroglyphs and the Holy Bible, hundreds of legends and holy scripts are easily interpreted as descriptive of comets and their sometimes awful consequences for the environment and humanity. The Carolina Bay event may well have only been one of many significant "impacts," though surely, due to its magnitude, it was the most significant in human memory.



Life in the Bays

In recent years, the geomorphologic debate detailed above has taken a back-seat to studies of the biology and natural wonders of Carolina Bays. (Thomas Ross, Comprehensive Carolina Bay bibliography).

In this sphere of study, the Bays are most notable for their "hydrological" characteristics and the diverse biota it supports. Carolina Bays are literally filled with life. Among the water dependent animal species commonly found in natural Bays are:

Great Blue Herons

Ornate Chorus Frog

Pond Cypress

Spring Pepper

Gopher Frog

Water Beetle

Eastern newt

Tiger Salamander

Mabee's salamander

Clam Shrimp

Red copepods

Dragonfly Nymph

(North Carolina Wild Places, 1997, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission)

Carolina Bays also harbor numerous species adapted both to up and low-land; including white tailed deer, brown bear, bobcats and rattlesnakes. Plant life in the Bays is equally diverse, supporting a number of rare and endangered species, such as Long Leaf Loosestrife and Venus Flytrap .

It is hardly surprising then that the diversity is not limited to the visible world. Researchers at the University of Georgia announced in April, 1997, the discovery of previously unknown bacteria that grow and live in the Bay muck:

"The team determined the DNA sequences of some 35 clones from the Carolina bay samples, which were taken in the mud beneath a shallow layer of water. Of these 35, some 32 were affiliated with five bacterial groups, Proteobacteria (11); Acidobacterium-like bacteria (8); Verrucomicrobium-like bacteria (7); gram-positive bacteria (3) and green nonsulfur bacteria (3).

One sequence did not seem to be associated with any major division. The most interesting fact, however, is that none of the clones exhibited an exact match to any of the 16S rDNA sequences deposited in numerous databases. "This suggests that most of the bacteria in Rainbow Bay are novel species," said Lawrence Shimkets, one of the Georgia researchers .

Previously Unknown Bacteria Discovered By University Of Georgia Researchers In Features Called Carolina Bays, University of Georgia Press Release, April 9, 1997

(Anomalous genetic variations have also been identified by recent investigators of the natural characteristics of the Tunguska area.)

Some even go as far as to link theories of extraterrestrial causation with the unique biological features:

"Mac, incidentally, believes that the plant got its name because the seed actually came from Venus. Southeastern North Carolina is dotted with mysterious shallow round craters, most (some ed.) of them water filled called Carolina Bays. Some scientists believe the craters were caused by a meteor. shower long ago, and Mac believes that. "My great, great granddaddy remembers when they fell," he says. He also believes the seeds of the flytrap, a plant with a spacemonsterish look about, arrived on those meteors by way of Venus." When asked if there were flys on Venus for the traps to catch, Mac says, "I guess so. No telling what's there. Nobody ever been there to find out, have they?"

(North Carolina Curiosities, 1990, Jerry Bledsoe, Glope Pequote Press, Second Edition)


http://science.howstuffworks.com/venus-flytrap1.htm

Venus flytraps are found in only one location -- worldwide -- within 75 miles of Wilmington, North Carolina. This small region coincides neatly with the central axis of Carolina Bay occurrence .

The Good News

Fortunately, Carolina Bays are protected by one of the nation's strongest environmental statutes, Section 404 of the Clean Water Act. This Act, and subsequent regulatory interpretations, regulates the disposal into, and alteration of, jurisdictional "Waters of the United States."

For the purposes of the law, "Waters," has been interpreted to mean areas which are saturated in the uppermost foot of soil for a portion or all of the growing season (as little as 10 days in North Carolina). Virtually all Carolina Bays meet this criterion, and thus, in their natural vegetated state, are subject to a complex state and federal permitting system.

Federal wetland protection has been an unexpected boon for the conservation, and, particularly, restoration, of Carolina Bays. Because of their vast number and range, Carolina Bays are often unavoidably the subject of agricultural or infrastructure development, particularly highways. This has led to very recent efforts to restore Bays as "wetland mitigation banks." Wetland banks are a new and novel method of dealing with the conflicting societal needs to both develop and protect or restore certain lands.

Wetland banks sell wetland "credits" to off-set and compensate for unavoidable development in wetlands like Carolina Bays. For example, for each acre destroyed by the Department of Transportation in building or widening a road, a credit can be purchased to "mitigate" the loss as required to receive a permit.

North Carolina's first privately permitted mitigation bank is a 2200 acre ditched and drained Carolina Bay, the first phase of which will require the restoration of 690 acres from farm back to forest. Over 200,000 trees of 27 different varieties were planted at this site, and over 20 linear miles of ditches now draining the property were backfilled. The restoration, when complete, will produce approximately 220 federally authorized mitigation credits. Carolina Bays are well suited as wetland banks, they are natural "bathtubs" and the water in them can be more reliably controlled without flooding surrounding lands.

This process clearly improves the environment by requiring that 2 or mores acres are restored for every acre lost. It also allows the development of certain Bays when it has been proven to be absolutely necessary and there are no other reasonable options. This new development for Carolina Bays also offers an opportunity to collect a great deal more scientific data on their natural processes.

Conclusion

I have always maintained a strong interest in the unexplained parts of science and history. Most of the subjects I have encountered, however, do not promise an easy solution. In anthropology, there will always be another missing link, or in archaeology, another hole to dig. But in the small corner of research where Carolina Bays reside there seems plenty of reason to believe a definitive solution could be found at little expense.

Biological assays and efforts to conserve Carolina Bays are numerous (and increasing) but no work is underway to re-evaluate their genesis using modern methods and technologies. Geophysical researchers simply abandoned this line of study in the late 1970's, just before science was armed with some of its best tools. Contrast the last effort to model wind formation theories -- Ray Kacrowski and his 1979 sand-box -- with the computational and graphical modeling programs available to today's university researchers. Or the crude 1950's ink drawings describing the range and orientation of Carolina Bays -- with today's advanced GIS and space based earth sensing equipment.

I firmly believe a properly equipped and modestly funded, multidisciplinary, modern day graduate lab could, if not solve the the problem outright, clearly dismiss one or the other camps of thought.

Given a confident belief that the answers are indeed out there in the sand, we come then to the true shame of the Carolina Bay story: the willingness of the current geophysical research community to tolerate and admit such a profound "mystery" in their midst. I've known respected professional earth scientists to brush off questions about Carolina Bay origin with references to "alien landings" and "giant fish." With prodding, they generally elicit a thin collage of wind and wave theory faintly recalled from their student years. One gets the distinct feeling that the study of Carolina Bay origin is the "crazy aunt in the attic" of the Coastal Plain researcher. And that visiting his dear relative is hardly worth the disturbing consequences.

Perhaps then it is not a lack of equipment, money, or even interest that relegates this subject to a "mystery." The stakes may simply be too high for open-minded research in this field at this time. If it were revealed that these omnipresent features were indeed created suddenly around the time of the most recent extinction and climatic change, the "textbooks" would again need rewriting, and serious preparation and contemplation made for our future protection. It is disturbing to think that today's scientists, more than two hundreds years after the discovery of Carolina Bays, seem more reluctant than ever to step back and contemplate the whole of their mystery.



"Science ... warns me to be careful how I adopt a view which jumps with my preconceptions, and to require stronger evidence for such belief than for one to which I was previously hostile. My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations."

--Thomas Huxley, 1860

http://www.georgehoward.net/cbays.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:18:37 pm
Comet Phaethon's Ride
by Bob Kobres ~ 1993


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A condensed version of this article titled, The Path of a Comet and Phaethon's Ride, was published by The World & I (ISSN 0887-9346) Vol. 10, No. 2 (Feb. 95) pp. 394-405.


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In 1927 Franz Xaver Kugler, a Jesuit scholar who had devoted over thirty years to the study of cuneiform astronomical texts, published an essay entitled "The Sibylline Starwar and Phaethon In the Light of Natural History." His tri-decade-plus familiarity with ancient documents of celestial events plus a growing consensus that the crater at Coon Mountain Arizona (Meteor Crater) was in fact produced by a large meteoroid provided the scientific footing for Kugler's assertion that a similarly large impact event in the Mediterranean Sea inspired fire-from-above legends such as Phaethon's ride.

Coincidentally, it was also in 1927 that Leonid Kulik, a Russian Scientist, located the area devastated by the twenty-megaton aerial explosion in 1908 of what was probably a piece of debris long ago separated from the progenitor of the still extant comet, Encke. Kulik's first expedition to the Tunguska region in 1921 had been intriguing but unsuccessful, so the cash poor Soviet Academy was reluctant to fund another hunt. What finally tipped the scales in Kulik's favor was a report prepared by a former head of the Irkutsk Observatory, A.V. Voznesensky. Voznesensky combined the data Kulik had gathered with 1908 seismic data recorded at Irkutsk and concluded that:

. . . it is highly probable that the future investigator of the spot where the Khatanga [Stony Tunguska] meteorite fell will find something very similar to the meteorite crater of Arizona; . . . . The Indians of Arizona still preserve the legend that their ancestors saw a fiery chariot fall from the sky and penetrate the ground at the spot where the crater is; the present-day Tungusi people have a similar legend about a new fiery stone. . . . the search for and investigation of the Khatanga meteorite could prove a very profitable subject of study, particularly if this meteorite turned out to belong to the iron class. (J. Baxter and T. Atkins 1976)

In other words, it was thought possible that a very valuable chunk of nickel-iron might be recovered; this is why Kulik was a bit dumbfounded when he actually found the spot he had sought. The devastation was quite obvious--over two-thousand square kilometers of dense Siberian forest had been scorched and flattened. There was, however, no crater.

Kulik's find revealed that colliding space debris could do a great deal of damage yet leave little long-term detectable evidence to indicate that an impact had occurred. Some implications of this fact were recognized by a few investigators almost immediately. Astronomer C.P. Olivier, writing of Kulik's discovery for Scientific American, stated in the July 1928 issue:

In looking over this account, one has to admit that many accounts of events in old chronicles that have been laughed at as fabrications are far less miraculous than this one, of which we seem to have undoubted confirmation. Fortunately for humanity, this meteoric fall happened in a region where there were no inhabitants precisely in the affected area, but if such a thing could happen in Siberia there is no known reason why the same could not happen in the United States.

Newly discovered impact craters were big news in the early thirties; some large structures had been discovered in Australia (Henbury Craters), and British explorer James Philby was, in 1932, led to find some impressive and actually fairly recent craters in the Arabian Desert (Wabar Craters) by a guide who sang:

From Qariya strikes the sun upon the town;

Blame not the guide that vainly seeks it now,

Since the Destroying Power laid it low,

Sparing nor cotton smock nor silken gown.

That same year geologist Frank A. Melton and physicist William Schriever, both of the University of Oklahoma, finished a lengthy study of the unusual features revealed by the flying camera two years earlier. They reported their findings at a 1932 meeting of the Geological Society of America, and these were published the following year in the Journal of Geology, under the title "The Carolina 'Bays'--Are They Meteorite Scars?" Later that year (1933), Edna Muldrow captured the attention of Harper's Monthly readers with this opening paragraph:

What would happen if a comet should strike the earth? We do not like to dwell on that possibility, it is true; yet such evasion arises mainly because we are human and it is human to shun the unpleasant. So we bolster our sense of security by the assumption that what has not happened will not happen. This assumption is false. The truth is that the earth in the past has collided with heavenly bodies, and the more serious truth is that it may collide again.

After informing readers of Melton and Schriever's work, Muldrow concludes her six and a half page article, "The Comet That Struck The Carolinas," with a rather graphic "if" scenario:

If the disaster of the Carolinas should repeat itself in the vicinity of New York City, all man's handiwork extending over a great oval spreading from Long Island to Ohio, Virginia, and Lake Ontario would be completely annihilated. One-half of the people, one-third of the wealth of the United States would be completely rubbed out. The world's greatest metropolis would lie a smoking ruin, . . . . Only a few broken struts set awry and throwing lengthened shadows across sullen lagoons would survive as reminders of the solid masonry of the city . . . .

In 1937, near-Earth-asteroid Hermes, which could impart much more destructive energy into the biosphere than the global nuclear arsenal is capable of releasing, was observed to have missed Earth by less than seven hours.

By 1940, Harvard Astronomer Fred L. Whipple had adduced comet Encke as a remnant of larger parent body which had been in a short period (around 3.3 years) low inclination (3.6 - 16 degree) orbit for between five and twenty thousand years; a long present spectacle for our ancestors as the comet progressively broke up creating the still active Taurid meteor streams (F.L. Whipple 1940).

Obviously, there was, half a century ago, sufficient rational for academia to take a serious look at the plentiful body of lore which spoke of fire raining destructively from the sky. What happened? Perhaps it was the break in scholarly continuity caused by World War II; maybe the subject became virtually taboo in the wake of the well-publicized flap over the myth based theory of Immanuel Velikovsky. Regardless of why circumstances retarded the academic pursuit of understanding this fascinating and arguably important influence on human social development, recent astronomical evidence emphasizes the need to give this subject proper attention.

An interesting place to start is with an objective look at plausible scenarios which could have inspired legends such as Phaethon. Kugler argued in favor of a Sun-like meteor. A problem with using this type phenomenon to explain the origin of Phaethon's ride is the brevity of prelude to an actual impact with a large meteoroid; the object would become visible only after it entered the atmosphere, seconds before it crashed into earth or water. In several ways a close brush with an active comet provides better source material for Phaethon's ride.


Figure One illustrates the final six hours during a close approach of a comet in an Encke type orbit. In this scenario a Mediterranean view at minus six hours is sunrise and already the comet nucleus appears eleven degrees above the horizon, with a tail, shortened by perspective, pointing upward. For the next several hours the Sun seems to chase the comet as the latter increases its apparent size at an increasing rate. By minus one hour the comet has reached a maximum apparent motion to the west, eighty degrees above the eastern horizon. Here it will appear to stay for the next half hour as, in line with the Sun, the translucent coma seems to double in size. At this point Earth is within the tail of the comet perhaps producing an erie glowing sky with intense aurora and meteor shower phenomena. In the next quarter hour the coma again seems to increase by over one hundred percent as the center of this horrifying spectacle appears to move back to the east by over sixteen degrees. It is during the last fifteen minutes, as the comet reaches it's closest distance to Earth, that damaging impacts with larger fragments from the nucleus are most likely to occur.

Similarities to the Phaethon myth are obvious. The young driver with rays about his head rises early, his father, Helios, according to Lucretius (5: 397-405) and Euripides (see J. Diggle 1970), follows behind ultimately taking control of the reins after Phaethon falls from the chariot. The inexperienced charioteer balks nearly halfway across the sky and is not destined to make it to the west. He travels against the stars (incursent stellis--Ovid, Met. II: 205) before being struck by a thunderous bolt as the Earth catches fire. Helios, in grief, refuses to bring light to the world. A likely allusion to a now recognized secondary phenomenon of large impact events: aerosols blocking or attenuating solar radiation.

It is unfortunate, in terms of expediting a definitive solution, that it is not possible to simply back track the orbit of a suspect comet and thereby show that the object was close enough to Earth to produce such effects on a specific date. The small mass of comets relative to the planets plus the natural 'retro-rocket' phenomenon produced by gases jetting from the solar heated surface of these bodies renders precise calculation of past positions impossible. A credible answer to what actually inspired the Phaethon legend can only come from examining all available evidence.

Figure One also shows that different cultures around the world would witness this hypothetical yet plausible approach of the comet; however, the perspective of disparate observers would not be the same. For instance, at minus one hour for an observer on the Nile delta, the phenomena is hovering overhead, while at the mouth of the Amazon (80 degrees to the west) a disconcerting dawn is breaking. It is therefore encouraging to find stories which seem to support the witnessing of such an event embedded within the native lore of this part of the world:

The sun had risen indeed, and with a glory of the cruel fire about him that not even the eyes of the gods could endure; but he moved not. There he lay on the horizon; and when the deities sent Tlotli, their messenger, to him, with orders that he should go on upon his way, his ominous answer was, that he would never leave that place till he had destroyed and put an end to them all. Then a great fear fell upon some, while others were moved only to anger; and among the latter was one Citli, who immediately strung his bow and advanced against the glittering enemy. By quickly lowering his head the Sun avoided the first arrow shot at him; but the second and third had attained his body in quick succession, when, filled with fury, he seized the last and launched it back upon his assailant. And the brave Citli laid shaft to string nevermore, for the arrow of the sun pierced his forehead.

Then all was dismay in the assembly of the gods, and despair filled their heart, for they saw that they could not prevail against the shining one; . . . (emphasis added) (H.H. Bancroft 1886 Vol. 3 p. 61)

and along the same theme:

. . . According to the Annals of Quauhtitlan, Quetzalcoatl, when driven from Tollan, immolated himself on the shores of the eastern sea, and from his ashes rose birds with shining feathers (symbols of warrior souls mounting to the sun), while his heart became the Morning Star, wandering for eight days in the underworld before it ascended in splendour. In numerous legends Quetzalcoatl is associated with Tezcatlipoca, commonly as an antagonist; and if we may believe one tale, recounted by Mendieta, Tezcatlipoca, defeating Quetzalcoatl in ball- play (a game directly symbolic of the movements of the heavenly orbs), cast him out of the land into the east, where he encountered the sun and was burned. (emphasis added) (H.B. Alexander 1919, 1964 ed., Vol. 11 p. 68)

A strong tradition of "Sun Ages" existed among the people who passed these potentially quite valuable stories to our time; memories that relate the transitions of those eras also seem pregnant with information:

. . . "The Sun of Air," Ehcatonatiuh, closed with a furious wind, which destroyed edifices, uprooted trees, and even moved the rocks. . . . Quetzalcoatl appeared in this third Sun, teaching the way of virtue and the arts of life; but his doctrines failed to take root, so he departed toward the east, promising to return another day. With his departure "the Sun of Air" came to its end, and Tlatonatiuh, "the Sun of Fire," began, so called because it was expected that the next destruction would be by fire. (emphasis added) (ibid, p. 91)

This tradition seems to imply that Quetzalcoatl (the feathered serpent) departed to the east in the last great period of cosmic destruction. A recent palaeoecological study of lakes in the Caribbean region (D.A. Hodell, 1991) reveals a sudden onset of dry conditions about thirty-two hundred years ago, this finding adds to an already robust collection of data which suggest a global perturbation of climate around that time period (1200 - 1000 B.C.E.). It is an intriguing possibility that cultures throughout the world experienced hardships during this era due to a large input of extraterrestrial material.


As Figure Two illustrates, there would, assuming one near approach, have been several close encounters over a two hundred-year period; not all, or even another, of these rendezvous would need to be as near and hence destructive as the one hypothesized above to adversely affect Earth's climate. The reason for this is that the gravity of Earth makes our planet an efficient dust collector and in close proximity to an active comet there is plenty available to form a solar shade in the upper atmosphere which would be disruptive to the climate.

Though definitive dating of protohistoric impact events can only come from careful stratigraphic work, there are some rather strong indicators that a nasty encounter such as suggested here occurred about 1159 B.C.E. This is not an arbitrary date for it marks the beginning of a sharp decline in the annual growth of Irish bog oak which lasted almost two decades and for that reason stands out in the over seven thousand year long dendrochronological record based on this species of tree (see M.G.L. Baillie and M.A.R. Munro 1988). The middle of the twelfth century also, according to widely accepted chronologies based on eclectic sources (such as Egyptian), marks a time period of general discord. A stark specimen of pertinent tie-in is related to chapter ten in the book of Joshua, where perhaps the most widely known mention of helio-halting occurs (Joshua 10: 12-14).

Now in the line just prior to Joshua's ambitious communique to the god of Israel it is stated that:

. . . the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died; they were more who died with the hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword. (Joshua 10: 11)

Deferring discussion of the specific nature of these "great stones," it is worth noting that this incident is recorded by Sirach, with a somewhat different connotation:

"With hailstones of mighty power He caused war to break violently upon the nation." (Ecclesiasticus 46:6)

after asking:

"Did not the sun go back by his hand? And did not one day become as two?" (Ecclesiasticus 46:4).

These seemingly minor differences should perhaps be more closely examined with regard to Joshua's reported conquests, particularly in light of recent archaeological findings. An especially valuable site for affixing a date to Joshua's campaign is the Canaanite city of Lachish (re: Joshua 10: 31-33), where time marking Egyptian artifacts have been found. Finds at this location are also quite supportive of the scenario espoused in this paper. David Ussishkin, reports in Palestine in the Bronze and Iron Ages (1985 p. 223) that at tell Lachish:

The city of Level VI was razed in a violent destruction accompanied by fire, traces of which could be detected in every spot in which its remains were uncovered. The destruction was apparently complete, and the population liquidated or driven out. Following the catastrophe, the site was abandoned and remained desolate for a long period of time.

Ussishkin dates this devastation at 1150 B.C.E.; he also paints an archaeological picture of a crushingly abrupt end:

The tragic circumstances of the city's destruction were vividly illustrated in the ruins of the Level VI building of Area S. This large public edifice seems to have been turned into living quarters during its final period of use, perhaps occupied by refugees from outside the city who fled their homes in the face of the impending disaster that was eventually to destroy the city. On the floors, sealed beneath the building debris, were found human remains that were studied by Professor Patricia Smith (Ussishkin, 1983; 116, Pl. 25:2). They include a number of bones of an adult female aged 40-50 and of an 8-year-old child, as well as two skeletons, one of a child aged 2-3 years and one of an infant of 6-8 months. Professor Smith reported that according to the position of these skeletons on the floor, 'the child had either been thrown down on its face, or possibly died while crawling along the ground . . . . the infant was thrown or fell onto the ground'. Apparently, these children were trapped and crushed under falling debris while trying to crawl out from under it. According to Professor Smith, the good state of skeletal preservation suggests that they were covered by the debris shortly after death.

Several artifacts directly traceable to Ramses III have been recovered from Level VI; perhaps, in light of a broader view of possible events, the early criticism heaped upon the Egyptian epic poetry of this period was not well-founded. As an example, Wilson, after lambasting the poetic excesses in the Medinet Habu account of the second Libyan war, offers this free translation of the enemy's flight before the Pharaoh:

. . . The pupils of their eyes squinted so that they could not see. The roads were blocked and stopped up before them, while the world was a whirlwind behind them to carry off their people. Their weapons had fallen from their hands, and their hearts knew no rest . . . . They were straggling trembling and sweating. The uraeus-serpent which is upon the head of the Sun of Egypt (Pharaoh) was against them, so that the great heat of (the war-goddess) Sekhmet permeated their hearts and their bones were burned up within their bodies. The stars of the seshed-constellation were frightful in pursuit of them, while the land (of Egypt) was glad and rejoiced at the sight of his valor: Ramses III. (Wilson, J.A. 1928/29 p. 27)

The belief that the Pharaoh magically controlled celestial events is well attested to in Egyptian literature. In fact the personage of these fleshy gods was often directly equated with a cosmic object (see G.A. Wainwright 1938). For instance R.O. Faulkner (1969) translates sections 1454-55 in utterance 570 of the Pyramid Texts:

Do not break up the ground, O you arms of mine which lift up the sky as Shu; my bones are iron and my limbs are the Imperishable Stars.

I am a star which illumines the sky, I mount up to the god that I may be protected, for the sky will not be devoid of me and this earth will not be devoid of me for ever.

It is with this larger than life royal identity that the following Chinese account should be viewed.

King Wan dreamt that he was clothed with the sun and moon. . . . In the first month of spring, on the 6th day, the five planets had a conjunction in Fang. . . . The conjunctions of the five planets in Fang brightens all within the four seas.'

When king Wan was dead, his eldest son Fa ruled in his stead. . . . When he [Fa] was crossing the river at the ford of Mang, in the middle of the stream, a white fish leaped into the king's boat. The king stooped down and took it up. It was 3 cubits long, and under its eyes were red lines which formed the characters--'Chow may be smitten.' The king wrote over them the character for 'dynasty,' and the words disappeared. After this he burned the fish in sacrifice, and announced the event to Heaven. Lo! fire came down from heaven, and rested over Wang uh, gradually floating away into a red bird, with a stalk of grain in its beak.

If this collection of mixed metaphors was the sole record of end times for the Shang dynasty it would lend little help to support the suppositions of this paper; however it is not, and when the unusual boat ride of Fa is considered in context with other Chinese lore speaking of this period (approx. 1150 B.C.E.) it becomes quite intriguing. The above passage comes from The Annals of the Bamboo Book (ch. 4, part 5) and is devoted to King Woo (named Fa) who, with his father King Wan is considered co-founder of the Chow dynasty. From the conjunction of five planets in Fang to the end of the Shang dynasty the Bamboo Book records a span of two decades. This "warring period" (given as 1148-1122 B.C.E. by N. Koss 1979) is the subject of a later historical novel (Feng-Shen Yen-I) which contends that the war between Shang and Chow groups was not caused by human factors but by the predestined investiture of the gods (see S.H. Chang 1990 pp. 169-70). In the Shoo King (book of history) there are several mentions of heaven sending down calamities during this time period. The explanation for these adversities is that heaven was showing displeasure with the Shang ruler, Te-sin (named Show), and it is expressly stated of Fa that:

"Reverently obeying the determinate counsel of Heaven, I pursue my punitive work to the east, . . ." (Shoo King, Part 5, Book 3, p. 7).

In the Great Declaration, also in the Shoo King (Part 5, Book 1, Part 2-8.9), Fa states:

. . . My military prowess is displayed, and I enter his territories, to take the wicked tyrant. My punishment of evil will be shown more glorious than that of T'ang.

The last line has an important connotation, for turning to the scholarly notes of James Legge concerning the Punitive Expedition of Yin (Shoo King, Part 3, Book 4) Legge indicates that:

. . . at last, B.C. 1765, after many misgivings, T'ang took the field against his sovereign. There could be no doubt as to the result. Heaven and earth combined with men to show their detestation of the tyrant. Two suns fought in the sky. The earth shook. Mountains were moved from their strong foundations. Rivers were dried up. Kee was routed, and fled south to Ts'aou, . . .

The known distribution of debris associated with comet Encke makes earlier events, such as alluded to here, quite plausible, however for now this passage serves only to show that a cosmic interpretation of Fa's conquest is not ad hoc. Also, before discussing the interesting aspects of Fa's fish story, it is pertinent to note that the Annals of the Bamboo Book record that in the forty-eighth year of Show's (the Shang tyrant) reign, two suns appeared together and the E goat was seen. Legge notes that this E goat "was a prodigious thing, 'a spirit-like animal,'--variously described." This is almost certainly a reference to the appearance of a comet.

In the Appendix to the Great Declaration there is again mention of Fa crossing what was probably at some point in this legend's history a cosmic river:

As the prince Fa had got to the middle of the stream in his boat, a white fish entered it. The king knelt down and took it up. He then went on the bank, and burned it, in sacrifice to Heaven. All the dukes said, "This is auspicious!"

On the fifth day there was a ball of fire which descended from above, till it came to the king's house, and there dissolved into a crow. Its colour was red . . .

Remarkably, this incredible sounding tale fits well with a Chinese view of a comet approaching as postulated above.

The plain of Honan is about eighty degrees east of the Nile delta so for an observer located in that part of the world the hypothetical comet would have come into view over five hours earlier than it would for a counterpart located in the Mediterranean. Looking at Figure One again, it can be seen that the comet, or "white fish," would appear to move closer to the sun, or "solar barge," throughout the morning. By mid-afternoon (minus 2 to 3 hours) the comet, rapidly growing in apparent size, would seem to be merging with the sun. At minus one hour the fieriest sunset imaginable would begin, followed forty-five minutes later by the dramatically sudden eruption of a "ball of fire" which in the span of fifteen minutes, would have moved the wrong way into the night horizon where it would, in a phoenix like fashion, rise again, rapidly losing apparent size as it sped away from Earth into the star peppered black void perhaps taking on the appearance of a red bird as the object's aspect became smaller and so returned less sunlight to an atmosphere recently loaded with comet dust.

As mentioned above, without detailed groundwork, no definitive conclusion regarding the magnitude or timing of a past impact event can be put forth. It is, however, possible to be relatively secure in asserting that encounters disruptive to the environment have occurred since the end of the Pleistocene some twelve-thousand years ago. Indeed the Younger Dryas cold oscillation, which is contemporary with the Pleistocene/Holocene transition as well as the American and perhaps Euro/Asian megafauna extinction episode, may have been caused by external input. The newly recognized large population of near-Earth-objects provides a sound astronomically based argument for a much higher frequency of impact events than was estimated two decades ago. Also, an improved understanding of phenomena associated with cosmic collisions supplies credibility to certain ancient assertions which had seemed completely illogical. A good example of generally misunderstood lore can be found in Book V of the Sibylline oracles. H.N. Bate (1918) translates lines 298-300:

And then in his anger the immortal God who dwells on high shall hurl from the sky a fiery bolt on the head of the unholy: and summer shall change to winter in that day. (emphasis added)

Bate notes that Book VIII contains a parallel passage with winter being changed to summer--fortunately he did not feel compelled to "correct" the lines above as others have. For example:

And then the imperishable God who dwells in the sky in anger will cast a lightning bolt from heaven against the power of the impious. Instead of winter there will be summer on that day. (emphasis added)

This comes from Old Testament pseudepigrapha (vol. 1) published in 1983. Not only has the passage been rationalized (If God throws down fire it should get hotter, right?), but, a fiery bolt now has become a lightning bolt.

Evidence of impact-induced cold is valuable in gauging how energetic a past fall was. Based on nuclear winter studies, a cosmic collision would need to impart at least the energy equivalent of a thousand megatons TNT into the environment to produce such an effect.

A number of cultures retained stories of impact-induced winter. Most telling of all such lore this author has read are these amazingly informative tales of the Yakuts: [note that the CH in brackets below is printed in the reference as a "c" with a diacritic "v"]

[ch]olbon . . . is said to be "the daughter of the Devil and to have had a tail in the early days". If it approaches the earth, it means destruction, storm and frost, even in the summer; . . .

[ch]olbon, the daughter of the Devil is a beautiful girl . . . she is the bride and the sweetheart of Satan's son-- ürgel (Pleiades). When these two stars come close to one another, it is a bad omen; their eager quivering, their discontinuous panting cause great disasters: storms, blizzards, gales. When they unite, fathom deep snow will fall even in the summer, and all living beings, men, animals and trees will perish . . . " (L. Mandoki, 1968, p. 489)

Both folk memories were recorded by ethnographer V.L. Serosevsky, the first in 1877, the next in 1885. The Yakuts identified Venus as [ch]olbon; however, as a later student of this culture, G.V. Ksenofontov, observed:

"The Yakuts have two words for the "star": sulus and [ch]olbon. The first means simply "star", the second refers to stars that change their place in the sky, sometimes appearing and disappearing. Nowadays, however, it no longer--or very seldom--refers to other planets than Venus and has almost become its name. Yet, as we have seen, in legends also other "[ch]olbons" (i.e. planets) are mentioned. (ibid, p. 490)

What is remarkable about these particular tales is the conjunction of several pieces of information. The lines contend that a comet ([ch]olbon with a tail) came close enough to influence weather on Earth--i.e. deadly storms, frost and deep snow in summer. Also, it is implied that this is most likely to occur if the comet appears close to the Pleiades. In short, these legends accurately describe what can now be inferred from astronomical data on comet Encke and the ring of debris its progenitor strew about the Sun.

Of particular interest with regard to external perturbation of climate is an artifact unearthed in 1934, the Ch'u Silk Manuscript . This document, which dates from 500-400 B.C.E., is primarily astrological in nature. Because several of the characters painted on this silk have no directly traceable descendants translation is difficult, making it preferable to take into account more than a singular attempt at extracting meaning from the text. Pertinent is Jao Tsung-yi's interpretation of lines B. 1-1 to 2-30 which relate irregularities of a "Broom Star" (comet):

Sometimes the sun and moon are not in their constant course. This is called Ying (gaining) and Ch'u (retreating). Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter have . . . and have their own regular way. When the order of the sun, the moon, and the heavenly bodies is disturbed, gaining and retreating . . . and the plants would become erratic . . . ominous happenings. Heaven and earth will cause disasters(?). The T'ien-p'ou star [ ] will tremble and fall down in . . . direction. Then, the mountains and hillocks . . . there will be streams and floods. Such (phenomena) are (seen) in the Po-po [ ]. (Jao Tsung-yi, 1972, pp. 118-119)

A more raw rendering of these lines is provided by Noel Barnard:

. . . (particle) . . . . . . (= verb?) the sun, the moon thence will gain and retreat, and will not obtain its . . . . Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter . . . . (= not?) have . . . . (- their?) regularity. When the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, and the Constellations confuse and . . . . (= muddle?) their movements, the [process of] gaining and retreating . . . . (= becomes muddled?) . . . . [thus] the grasses and the trees will lack regularity [of growth?] . . . . ; . . . . [ . . . . ] . . . . . . . . , Heaven and Earth will . . . . (- verb?). The T'ien-p'ou will be about to move and to descend to its . . . . region. The Hills and the Plains - their . . . . (- verb?) have depth (?) their (?) . . . . ; this is known as . . . . . (N. Barnard, 1973, Part 2, p. 207)

Clearly, in the light of contemporary knowledge, it is not outrageous to suppose that humanity learned to dread comets as a consequence of direct experience with destructive phenomena engendered by actual encounters with the immediate environment of these flamboyant cosmic interlopers (see V. Clube and B. Napier, 1990). Indeed, early attempts to predict this infrequent but periodically recurring phenomenon were quite likely the impetus which led to the widespread and ultimately formalized belief that star positions could directly influence events on Earth. Observed comet phenomena such as fragmentation, where a comet appears to produce one or more offspring, can explain the origin of odd notions like Athena being born fully formed from the head of Zeus. That these objects were feared and worshiped as omnipotent, judgmental gods of the sky is understandable and seems attested to in several ancient texts. For instance in Ezekiel 1:27-28 it is stated that:

. . . upon the throne, a form in human likeness. I saw what might have been brass glowing like fire in a furnace from the waist upwards; and from the waist downwards

I saw what looked like fire with encircling radiance. Like a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day was the sight of that encircling radiance; it was like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.

When I saw this I threw myself on my face, . . . (New English Bible)

A similar description of celestial war-lord can be found in the Drona Parva of the Mahabharata:

Many are the blazing and terrible forms of this God that men speak of and worship in the world. Many also are the names, of truthful import, of this Deity in all the worlds. Those names are founded upon his supremacy, his omnipotence, and his acts . . . [several names and attributes are given]. . . Downwards fiery, and half the body that is auspiciousness is the moon. His auspiciousness is the moon. So also half his soul is fire and half the moon. (P.C. Roy 1973 ed., Vol. 6, pp. 486- 487)

That these stories are rooted in comet lore is suggested by content; for example, in the above-mentioned Parva it is said of the preceptor that:

. . . When Drona, of sure aim, thus proceeded, the earth trembled violently. Fierce winds began to blow, inspiring the (hostile) ranks with fear. Large meteors fell, seemingly issuing out of the sun, blazing fiercely as they fell and foreboding great terrors. (ibid. p. 452)

Drona's offspring was also quite formidable:

. . . the preceptor's son, that slayer of hostile heroes, inspired with mantras a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire, and let it off on all sides, filled with rage. Dense showers of arrows then issued from it in the welkin. Endued with fiery flames, those arrows encompassed Partha on all sides. Meteors flashed down from the firmament. A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the (Pandava) host. All the points of the compass also were enveloped by that darkness . . . Inauspicious winds began to blow. The sun himself no longer gave any heat . . . Clouds roared in the welkin, showering blood . . . The very elements seemed to be perturbed. The sun seemed to turn. The universe, scorched with heat, seemed to be in a fever. The elephants and other creatures of the land, scorched by the energy of that weapon, ran in fright, breathing heavily and desirous of protection against that terrible force. The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element, O Bharata, became exceedingly uneasy and seemed to burn. (ibid. p. 481)

The form perceived by Ezekiel, as well, seems capable of wreaking havoc on a grand scale:

. . . says the Lord God, my wrath will boil over. In my jealousy and in the heat of my anger I swear that on that day there shall be a great earthquake throughout the land of Israel. The fish in the sea and the birds in the air, the wild animals and all reptiles that move on the ground, all mankind on the face of the earth, all shall be shaken before me. Mountains shall be torn up, the terraced hills collapse, and every wall crash to the ground. I will summon universal terror against Gog, says the Lord God, and his men shall turn their swords against one another. I will bring him to judgement with pestilence and bloodshed; I will pour down teeming rain, hailstones hard as rock, and fire and brimstone, upon him, upon his squadrons, upon the whole concourse of peoples with him. Thus will I prove myself great and holy and make myself known to many nations; they shall know that I am the Lord. (New English Bible, Ezekiel 38:19-23)

To conclude, the above conveys a need for students of the past to begin searching specifically for data which can facilitate an accurate understanding of the effect this long underrated and thus virtually neglected natural phenomenon has had upon human social development.


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BIBLIOGRAPHY

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http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/phaeth.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:19:14 pm
Why and how did the poles shift ?
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What, Where and Why.
Have the poles always been in the actual position, if not where were they?
The poles tend to shift, but this takes 26'000 years and is a very slow process.
When the North and South pole did shift, how can we shift a pole?.
Could the Ice-Cap have destabilized the earth rotation, does it have enough mass to do this?.
Why does the Earth tilt of axis not match the Orbital inclination of the Moon (Difference +/- 18°), then the Earth-Moon combination is a binary system which tends to synchonize their movements.
Has the misalignment of +/- 17° towards actual North of some Maya temples in the Yucatan to do whith a possible pole displacement?
Did the Earth always rotate at the same speed, or did it rotate faster (Days are shorter = more days in a Year), or did it rotate slower (Days are longer = less day in a Year)?.
Why does the center of the ice cap of 10'000 BC show a difference of 12° to 20° towards actual North?.
Could the actual Magnetic pole have been the North pole 12'000 Years ago?.
Could the center of the IceCap of 10'000 BC have been the Nort Pole (Situates on Actual GreenLand)?.
Modifying the Earth rotation speed and angle chages the pole position to, but requires a fair amount of energie, producing however an immediate effect (This is what likly happened anyway, see more in « How did it happen »).
Considerations, what could and what could not happen.
Mammoths have been frozen complete and intact, which gives us a time-scale of 24 hours maximum.
The total mass of the IceCap of 12'000 years ago makes 0.0005 % of the total mass of the Earth, so dont expect this to make any difference.
An colission whith an astriod or comet in the right place and the right angle produces this (un)disired effect, like someone playing billard making the billardball spin by hitting it a particular way.
The Earth is a ball and as such a symetric object which can, in upposite to a toll, spin in any direction.
Because of the gyroscopic effect of its rotation, the Earth will not chanche position by itself without an influance of an external force (Sun, Moon or colision with an object).
The Earth - Moon combination is a binary star system, which stabilizes the rotation, and ihibits such movements as the movements of rotation axis we can observe from other planets of our solar system, who do not have a « sabilizer ».
Earth tilt of axis difference with the orbital inclination of the moon.
We could expect that the Eath tilt of axis would (and probably should) match an angle of 90° with the orbital inclination of the moon, and this due to the stabilization effect of the Moon rotating around the Earth. Then in case of a big difference, the gravitional forces and the tides would probably pull this rotation axis slowly back in its original place anyway.

There could be, of course a difference in this alignment, but not as big as actual. The actual difference is about tha same as the expected difference between the center of the Ice-Cap (Suspected to have been on the center of Greenland e.g. 12° to 17° of to the actual Pole position) and the actual Pole position.

This illustration shows how the tilt of the rotation axis of the Earth could have been changed by an impact of an celestical object, such as an astriod or comet.

This could only have happened at mid summer or at mid winter when the tilt of the Earth rotation axis was in the right angular position. In other words the shift has been taken place in this direction, than in any other case the tilt of the Earth rotation axis would have had an other orientation towards the Moon's. orbital inclination angle as the Earth has today. The same situation repeats mid winter, when the orientation repeats in the opposite direction ( Position of Sun and Earth reversed in the above picture).

Note: the actual angular difference of the orbital inclination of the Moon with the tilt of axis of the Earth is about 18°, and the center of Greenland toward the Nortpole is also +/- 17°, as well was the center of the IceCap 12'000 years ago.

Siberia with it's Frozen Mammoths seem to have had a climat shitft of also around 17° towards north, and this shift must have been so fast that the Mammoths have been frozen instantainiously, then some of then did not finish eating there food or even have digested it, which limits the amount of time the event happened to a few hours, and not days or even weeks.

The present image, showing the Earth seen from the pole, illustrates that indeed a pole mouvement from the center of Greenland towards the actual position, moves Siberia about 1'500 Kms futher north. (And the upposite side further south)

This is the position used by the rest of the prediluvian maps and climat simulation in order to simulate the possible position of the Ice cap.


Could the orientation of some Maya temples be an indication of a pole shift?


This drawing shows a Maya temple with some unusual mis-orientation of 17° towards west, I have used this drawing to see or pole-shift would put the main orientation of most of the elements to an North - South and East - West position. Then an other orientation of the poles gives different results, this depending on the place on Earth. Then some do move their North - South orientation to the West as in other places the orientation goes the in the other direction.





This drawing shows the same temple as above, but with an orientation shift of 17° as the temple would have had before the pole shift had taken place from it's pre-diluvian position on GreenLand to it's actual position.
It could be that the Maya's did build some of their temples on top of older existing temples (It is known that they did indeed do this from time to time).
They would likely have build one or more of their temples on top of much older existing ones and conserved by doing so their original position.
The actual ones are not so old that they could be 12'000 years old. It is very unlikely that the Maya's existed that time, and it is more likely that they did follow up an other pre-existing culture, like the Aztec's picked up their culture and contignued it.


Did the Earth rotate always at the same speed?
This is a strange question, because it not rather likely that the Earth has always been rotating in the same angle and at the same speed, than any modification in the rotating enregy from the outside will modify more or less the roting speed and possibly also the rotating angle.

If hovever the speed and rotation angle gets modified, the pole position and the length af day will change to, and therefore any celestical object with a size of over 1 km and a speed of 10 km /sec or more will cause a significant change of both pole position and day length. This will cause as side effect a change in the number of days in a year to. Then the number of days in a year is the duration of the year divided by the duration of a day, so when a day gets longer, we will get lesser days in year, and on the other hand, a shorter day will give us more days in the year.

We can in fact shift a pole by modifying, adding and subtracting speed vectors in different angles on the existing rotation speed and angle of the Earth. Than even when this does not physicaly shifts the poles, it does shift the center of rotation axis which produces the result anyway. But the change however may take a up to day, this depending on the location (Up to one full rotation) to take effect. This was a quarter of a turn for the place where the Mammoths were, which gave them no more as a maximum of 6 hours left to live.


The impact slows down the rotation speed of the Earth and is therefore in opposite direction to the Earth rotation.

Black: New speed = 462 Ms/sec (Actual)
Blue: Old speed = 481 Ms/sec
Red: Subtracted = 135 Ms/sec
A day was: +/- 23 Hrs, and we had about 380 days in a year.





The impact accelerates the rotation speed of the Earth and is therefore in the same direction as the Earth rotation.

Blue: Old speed = 442 Ms/sec
Black: New speed = 462 Ms/sec (Actual)
Red: Added = 135 Ms/sec
A day was: +/- 25 Hrs, and we had about 349 days in a year.



Table of speed differences and object sizes in order to obtain the above results.

Speed in Km / sec
Size in Km
Estimation of an celestic object hurting the Earth, considering that the density of the object is 8 Kg /dm3 and that 80% of the kinetic energie will be converted into rotation motion of the Earth thereby considering that 50% of the total mass is accelerated by 66% of the additionnel rotation speed and the density of the Earth is 5 Kg /dm3 . The remaining energie will be converted to heat and is transfered to the environnement (probably the ocean water).

The results of this table can be used to search for a crater, then the size of a crater is about 10 times the size of the object.

10
105,14

20
66,24

30
50,55

40
41,73

50
35,96

60
31,84

70
28,73

80
26,29



Note: The total amount of energie needed is 296 X 10 18 Kgm /sec, from which 59 X 10 18 Kgm /sec is converted into heat during the impact and the remaining 237 X 10 18 Kgm /sec is converted into additional rotation speed of the Earth, modifying by doing so the rotation axis of our Earth, and thereby shifting indirectly the poles.

Possible places of impact

To produce the (un)disired effect of the above mentioned poleshift, as mentioned above, must be done by modifying the Earth rotation angle and speed. The Earth must be therefore be hit under an vertical angle of 30° - 60° in one of the following places. Having hit the Earth somewere else would have produced a different effect, and could therefore not mach the actual situation.

Impact is in the same direction as the Earth rotation.
(Duration of a day was 25 Hrs - 349 Days / Year)
Inpact is in opposite direction to the Earth rotation.
(Duration of a day was 23 Hrs - 380 Days / Year)

Bermuda triangle
North -West Pasific Ocean

20N - 40N
60W - 100W
Note: Crater of 500 X 700 Kms at Charleston coast.
40N - 70N
140E - 180E
Note: No visible trace of Impact found

Australia
South of Cape Town

20S - 40S
80E - 120E
Note: No visible trace at Australian continent.
40S - 70S
0 - 40W
Note: No visible trace of Impact found



Note: The bermuda region has indeed some craters, and the one at the Charleston coast is one of them. This particular crater seem to match the one of thre object sizes stated in a previous table, than a crater is usually about 10 times the size of the object causing it.

The eliptic shape of the crater could also mean the impact was at an agle of 30° to 60° with the surface, and opened up, due to it size, mass and speed, the whole ocean floor at that place, and possibly ripped open the whole of 60'000 Km continatal plate border lines.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:19:37 pm
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The idea that the oceans were lower thousands of years ago is not a new one.

In fact, if anything they have raised drastically over the last 10,000 years.

Here's my theory.

Citing Atlantis for a base, it is generally thought of to be in the largest part of the MAR.

In my opinion, prior to 10,000 years ago, a catastrophic event happened which split the MAR from the North Atlantic all the way to the South Atlantic - taking any known land masses with it. It is known that it is "spreading", and the Continental Drift Theory accounts for it. I sort of agree with it, but only AFTER the sudden splitting of the MAR so long ago.

In the Bible it states that the rain came down, and the fountains of the Earth opened up to flood the Earth.

This is a description of what I believe to be the very catastrophic event described in Plato's story of Atlantis when the MAR split open.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:19:49 pm
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You know Kim, one more thing comes to mind from past research into this.

How much time did it take for this event to happen?

A geological minute could take atleast a million years..

Now I'm not being skeptical because this does make alot of sence to me.
It sounds to me like we are thinking that a more sudden event claimed this continent.

I can beleive that what was left of the continent may have sank after bits and peices of it were slowly eroded. The final cataclysm may have be caused in the event you were reffering to in the form of a mega thrust that sank it.

Now the only hole I want to shoot in to this idea,
(and fill later) is the effects on the shore lines of the surrounding continents. This kind of event would have caused super sized tsunamis.
Evidence of this would have surely surfaced all over the eastern seaboard and left permanent scars if you will, all over the place.
I'm not saying that the MAR isn't a likely place for Atlantis. I am suggesting that it didn't happen with one singal event.

P.S. I would love to have Atlantis surface in this area because other theories about the migration of man would surely be open to further research upon this discovery...

Regaurds.

[ 02-03-2006, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: ParaNormalIAm ]

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:20:11 pm
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It most likely was not a single event that sunk an island in the Atlantic. People are found of bringing up Surtsey, an island spat up by the Atlantic in a very short time through volcanic activity back in the early 1930's, but that island was tiny, nothing compared to Atlantis or evrn one of the Azores.

Even then, say that you did lower the ocean levels some three hundred feet (the figure given for the depth of the ocean levels during the Ice Age). That still would not give you the Atlantis that Plato spoke of, only a little more of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge would be visible, and that's it. It would not give you all the cities, let alone all the mountains and streams.
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:21:40 pm
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Nice research, Carolyn, I put Atl at the Mid-Atlantic Ridge myself.

Para, actually Cayce mentions three separate cataclysms:

50,000 bc
28,000 bc
9,000 bc

I don't know how the geology of the Azores coincides with these events, but, one geologist, Christian O'Brien, has mapped a landmass about the size of Spain now underwater there. I guess they can carbon date volcanic ash, but nobody has ever done it there before.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:22:31 pm
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FOUNTAINS OF THE DEEP



THE FLOOD AND THE HYDROPLATE THEORY

Problems with Plate Tectonics

Plate Tectonics Definition - original theory 6-8 plates, now over 100. Each plate moving centimeters per year on a plume of convected rock from below.

1. Each plate about 30 miles thick.

2. Plates subduct or dive below other causing volcanism, earthquakes and mountain ranges. I.e. "The Ring of Fire"

3. Some plates slide along others causing fault areas and earthquakes. Ie the San Andreas fault.

1. Mid Ocean Ridge

46,000 mile long mountain ridge under the ocean that circles the globe like a seam of a baseball and intersects in a Y under the Indian Ocean. Composed of Basalt.

Said to be the uplift zone where the magma from the convection currents erupts and push the continents apart. (Seafloor spreading)

Called the "fracture zone"

Not all fracture zones are parallel, some actually overlap and others intersect. Some overlapping areas are over 10 miles long and apparently not spreading.

2. Is subduction or overthrusting possible?

Plates 30 miles thick composed of primarily granite.

Angle of incline q (30o)

Compressive force sc (1.3 x 109 dynes / cm2)

Length L (350 km)

Thickness t (80 km)

Density of plate p1 (3.2 gm/cm3)

Density of rock plate is pushed though is p2 (3.5 gm/cm3)

Solid to Solid friction at depth h is m. (0.6)

Gravity is g (980 cm/sec2)

It is assumed that the compressive force sc is at the same angle q

and that the compressive force does not exceed the compressive strength of the rock.

Also we will assume that the drag force F = 0

(Net Thrust)+(Body Forces) > (Friction on top and bottom surfaces)

(sct-F)+g(p2-p1)Lt sin q > (p1g(h/2)Lm)+(p1g(h/2)+p2g t cos q) Lm

0.024 + 0.094 > (4.375 + 1.894) .06

0.118 > 3.7614

SUBDUTION CANNOT OCCUR!

Overthrusting has the same delimma. If a slab of rock is over 4.9km the compressive strength to push it is greater than the compressive strength of the rock and the rock will crumble.

3. Ocean trenches. Caused by subduction of plates. NOT!

Seismic reflection profiles of trenches show almost no distortion of sedimentary layers in the trenches. If they were subducting the top layers of sediment would be scraped off.

4. Seamounts and Tablemounts

Undersea structures show a sea level that was 3 - 6000 ft. below today sea level.

5. Earthquakes

Much is yet to be known about earthquakes.

Precursors 1. Ground swelling. 2. Water table level changes

According to plate tectonics earthquakes occur along plate boundaries.

But many quakes occur far from boundaries and many occur far deeper than the subduction depth.

If two plates were rubbing along each other for centuries then the friction would cause massive heating. Geothermal drilling has not borne that out.

6. Magnetic variations of the seafloor.

1960's studies showed "magnetic reversals" on the mid ocean ridges that mirrored each other on each side.

"Magnetic reversals" are in truth magnetic intensity variances. Many of the intensity bands are perpendicular to the ridges.

7. Submarine canyons

Several hundred V shaped submarine canyons are on the ocean at the mouths of major rivers that exceed both the depth and length of the Grand Canyon.

Underwater erosion cannot produce the force to erode these canyons 15,000 ft below the surface.

8. Coal and Oil deposits at the South Pole

Fossilized tree trunks 24 ft. long and 2 ft. thick.

30 layers of coal deposits 3-4 ft. thick.

According to plate tectonics the South Pole has always been inside the south arctic circle.

9. Glaciers and Ice Ages

Glaciers and snow reflect the sun's radiation causing more cold, more snow and more glaciers. Conversely, as glaciers melt more land absorbs the sun's radiation and thus melts more snow etc.

10. Frozen Mammoths

Thousands of frozen carcasses of mammoths, some rhinoceros and musk ox have been found quick-frozen in the northern arctic latitudes.

Temperatures of at least -150o to freeze and leave stomach contents undisturbed. Carcasses show signs of struggling against being inundated with mud and water. Also could large herds of such animals live in the arctic today?

11. Major Mountain ranges and Overthrusts

See subduction point above. Cannot be formed by.

Also many show signs of folding of rock. Can hard rock be folded even with long slow compressive force? No, the rock would crumble unless it was wet when folded and hardened chemically later.

12. Volcanoes and Lava

Magma is commonly about 1800o F and liquid.

Only the outer core, which lies 1800 - 3200 miles below the surface, is liquid.

(This also presents a problem in plate tectonics, as to where are the belts)

The Magma chambers are about 60 miles below the earth. How did they get there?

At depths of 4-5 miles the pressure in the rock would close off the cracks. And if the magma rose through the cooler rock it would solidify and close off the crack.

Heat diffuses, so what concentrated heat source caused:

1. Columbia Plateau 50,000 mi2 avg. 2 mile deep.

2. Deccan Plateau 200,000 mi2 avg. 3/4 mile deep.

3. Ontong-Java Plateau on ocean floor is 25 times more extensive that the Deccan plateau.

13. Geothermal heat

Two of the deepest holes are at Russia's Kola Peninsula and Germany's northeastern Bavaria. The holes are 7.5 and 5.6 miles respectively. (Neither hole penetrated to the underlying basalt.)

What they found:

1. Hot flowing mineralized water.

2. Crushed granite

3. Salt water cracks (twice as salty as the ocean)

4. A greater than expected rise in temperature with depth.

The variance in heating due to depth is over 600% in different areas.

Complex mathematical models of solutions to spherical heat conduction are hopelessly out of sync with the variations actually found.

14. Strata

1. The strata are much too uniform in their hardness and cementing.

2. There is too much CaCO3 or limestone based on present processes even going back billions of years.

10 to 15% of the sedimentary rock on the continents are limestone.

Under the Bahamas the limestone is 3 miles thick.

The oceans are full of dissolved limestone.

Where did all the calcium and carbon come from?

15. Metamorphic rock

Formed from intense pressure, heat and flowing water. The pressure and heat would be equivalent to a 23-mile high mountain. Raising rock 23 miles to be exposed at the surface is quite a feat. Also, the flowing water is quite a trick, as water will not seep deeper than 5 miles.

A huge enigma.

16. Plateaus

Relatively flat regions that are uplifted at min. 500 ft above the surrounding terrain.

Continents are granite floating on basalt.

What mechanism could cause large areas to rise up to a mile in the air?

1. Colorado Plateau

Convection currents in the solid rock 40 to 50 km below are presumed to have carried approximately 2,500,000 cubic miles of lighter granitic rock from somewhere to product the uplift and down growth. (M discontinuity or Moho is 6 miles deeper)

2. Tibetan Plateau.

750,000 sq. mi. uplifted avg. 3 miles. With the Himalayan range uplifted an avg. of 5 miles. This took about 25,000,000 cubic miles of material.

Where was the area of subsidence where all this rock was moved?

17. Salt Domes

In many areas salt deposits are buried deep below the earth. 100,000 sq. mi. and a mile thick.

Any process going on today cannot explain large deposits such as this.

18 Fossil graveyards

Fossils form rarely today because they require rapid burying of the plant or animal so they do not decay.

Huge reefs of fossil exist today with billions of fossils in them cemented in an enormous amount of sediments.

Evaluating Theories

1. Process.

Ability of a theory to explain many diverse observations strengthens its validity.

2. Parsimony

The infrequent use of assumptions. If many new assumptions are constantly being added to explain new observations the theory is weakened.

3. Prediction

Predicting unusual conditions or results if one looks in the right place, if it follows the first two criteria above, then can test a theory.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:23:10 pm
Talya

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HYDROPLATE THEORY

Assumptions:

1. Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas were joined by rock across a

much narrower space than occupied by the Atlantic today.

2. A large amount of water, with about twice the mineral content of the

ocean was trapped in interconnected chambers that averaged about 5/8 mile thick and was about 10 miles below the earth. This was at the Moho level. This is about 1.5 million cubic miles of water.

3. The pressure of the water in the chambers was increasing. The mechanism of pressure is unimportant.

4. No canopy existed or was unimportant in the process.

The Four Phases of the Hydroplate Theory

Phase 1: The Rupture Phase

1. Increasing pressure in the subterranean water causes the crust to "balloon" out, stretching critical weak points.

2. The rock shell reaches its breaking point in what is now the mid-Atlantic, but what was then a layer of thinner continent that spanned the Americas and Europe and Africa.

3. A microscopic crack forms and quickly spreads as stress propagation’s cause the crack to spread at about 2 miles per second (nearly the speed of sound in rock) and follows the path of least resistance in a circle around the earth, meeting in a Y in the Indian Ocean about 2 hours later.

4. The "Fountains of the Deep" roar out of the ten mile deep slit in the crust at supersonic speeds, into and above the atmosphere. Some water fragmented into rain droplets and rained on the earth in torrents never seen again. Other water jets above the atmosphere and freezes falling back as frozen ice and mud.



Phase 2: The Flood Phase

1. The force of the water erodes the continental shelf and underlying basalt causing huge tides of muddy sludge, quickly burying millions of plants and animals in huge reefs or shoals.

2. The waters, losing pressure, still surge out the slit for days, inundating the earth and covering up the mountains. The sediments are nearly equal in volume as the water at this time and "liquification" occurs causing a sorting out of the dead animals in layers according to size and mass leaving vast layers we see today.

3. The temperature of the water gushing out, due to the kinetic energy from the compression of the weight of the continents, attains a temperature of about 1000 F. This hot water, less dense than the colder water, rises to the top and evaporates, leaving its heavy mineral content behind. The addition of these minerals supersaturates the water below and the minerals settle out in a pasty layer of salts below several layers of heavier sediment. This formed the huge salt layers and domes today by pluming.

4. As the pressure decreased dissolved CO2 (20% of volcanic gas is CO2, 70% is water) bubbles out combining with Ca ions (about 35% of the eroded sediments was Basalt of which 6% is Ca) precipitating vast sheets of CaCO3 or limestone. Limestone deposits hold more C and Ca than today's atmosphere, oceans, coal and oil deposits, and living matter combined. The purity of most of the deposits today show they were formed by precipitation not formed by myriad of small shelled animals dying over eons and drifting down to be compacted and cemented together.

5. Most vegetation is uprooted and floated to regions where it accumulated in vast quantities. Later during the continental drift phase this vegetation is rapidly covered and heated and turned to coal and oil.

Phase 3: The Continental Drift Phase

1. Rock is elastic when placed under high pressure and can undergo a "phase change" where the crystalline structure "compacts" together and occupies a smaller volume. Conversely when the pressure is released, the "phase change" acts in reverse and the rock expands. This has been seen in rock quarries and mines around the world.



2. The area of the Atlantic was where the rupture occurred first. The continents have eroded wide apart and the underlying basalt undergoes a phase change and expands rapidly several miles high. This ripple effect follows around the earth on the original path moving around the earth in about half a day. The strange fracture zones and magnetic anomalies form.

3. The continents, still with some water between them and the underlying rock, begin to move away from this upthrust by gravity. They accelerate away from the mid oceanic ridge formation, riding on a layer of water acting as a lubricating film.

4. The continents begin to meet resistance of two kinds.

a.) The water film is depleted and the continents ride rock on rock. The massive inertia of the continent causing enormous kinetic energy releases in heat (magma pools) and buckling and thickening of the plate itself.

b.) The American plates move west and the European plates move east and both meet the upsurging mid Pacific ridge.

The Ring of Fire and the deep-sea trenches are formed by this sudden and catastrophic halt causing massive upward and downward buckling. The Indian plate literally slams into the Asian continent forming the Deccan uplift, America's plates buckle and form the western mountain ranges, huge compressive events everywhere form new mountains and plateaus that rise out of the flood waters. Much of the material is still wet and fold and bend in the patterns we see today in many mountains.

Phase 4: The Recovery Phase

Where did all the water go?

1. As the compression event occurs the parts of the continental plates that were the weakest buckled and rose into mountains out of the water. They also thickened downward and shut off the now much weakened flow of water. Magma from the pools left beneath the leading edge of the plate forced itself up into the shattered and cracked granite and left deposits like the Black Canyon of the Gunnison or the inner gorge of the Grand Canyon.

2. The water began to settle into the now wide basin formed by the eroding of the plates and the original rupture line. This wide basin (as wide as the oceans today was about 6 to 8 miles deep originally. Thus the Ocean level was much lower than today.

3. As the now foreshortened and thickened continental plates began to settle down on the basalt floor their weight began to uplift the ocean floor.

4. Meanwhile the huge lakes left on the now uplifted land drained away leaving huge drainage canyons in what is now deep ocean.

a.) Grand and Hopi Lakes drained through the area where the Grand Canyon is today. In several weeks of time more water poured through the gap of what is the Marble Canyon and the Grand Canyon than is in all the Great Lakes today.

b.) The Black Sea carved out the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles flowing into the Mediterranean Lake.

c.) The Mediterranean Lake flowed into the much lower Atlantic forming a deep V notch at the straits of Gibraltar.

d.) A huge lake in Central California flowed out through the gap under the Golden Gate Bridge.

5. Deep earthquakes (200 -450Km) are formed by the phase transformation of many minerals that undergo a "packing" or "unpacking" of the atomic structure under intense pressure. These are ongoing as areas where the continents are thickened are compressing the underlying basalt layer and other areas where the plate has moved or been eroded is "unpacking". This phase transformation is rapid and causes shock waves.

6. Shallow earthquakes are caused by the last of the trapped water that seeps up into cracks, and depending on the pressure widening the cracks, until movement can occur, lubricated by the water.

7. Frictional heating at the bases of the hydroplates causes the water to heat up and increased evaporation to occur. This in turn causes heavy cloud cover and increased precipitation.

The frictional heating also causes an increase in volcanism. Increased ejecta into the atmosphere causes a "nuclear winter"

Large temperature differences between the cool uplands and the warm ocean cause high winds carrying massive moisture.

The increased cold and the increased precipitation caused massive snowfall in the newly risen mountains. (As much as 100 times today's)

The "Ice Age"occurs.

8. Tablemounts rise up from the ocean floors and are eroded by the wave action of the much lower ocean.

9. Eventually the temperature differential between the land and the ocean moderates which ends the "Ice Age" and the glaciers begin to retreat, putting their water back into the ocean, bringing the ocean levels up to today's.

10. In the fracture zones, the fractures fill with sediment. Basalt contains magnetite and hematite that are strongly magnetic. At a Curie Point of 5780 C the basalt loses its magnetic properties. The fractures, filled with sediment, circulate cool water down into them and pump it back out again as a "black smoker". This cools the Basalt down past the Curie Point and causes magnetic intensities at the crack. Exactly as seen today.
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:23:50 pm
 
Talya

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   posted 02-05-2006 03:42 AM                       
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WHAT ABOUT NOAH'S ARK?

The Ark of Noah was a barge-like structure probably built of cypress or cedar ("gopherwood"). It was about 450 feet long by 75 feet in beam, and 45 feet high. Such a boat would displace 20,000 tons and have a gross tonnage of 14,000 tons. There were three decks, one door (in the side) and a window 18 inches high probably running around the top of the vessel under the roof. The ark was caulked "within and without" with pitch (Hebrew: "kopher" = "to cover,"---translated "atonement" elsewhere in the Old Testament).

The capacity of the ark was about 522 railroad cars, (1.4 million cubic feet). Only 188 railroad cars would be required to hold a pair of each of the 17,600 species of animals presently known to man, according to Dr. John Morris. (This number of cars includes food supplies for a year's subsistence). From this we can assume that many perhaps as many as two-third of the species originally created by God are already extinct. The ark, (The Hebrew word for ark is related to the Egyptian word "db't," = "coffin"), was under construction, on dry land presumably far from water, for 120 years. Although Noah ("a preacher of righteousness") sought to persuade the people of the his generation to come into the ark and so be saved, none responded

"...when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water." (1 Peter 3:20)

The ark is a beautiful picture of salvation by grace through faith. There was no other way to be saved from destruction in that day except by coming into the God's ark of refuge. The world was warned for 120 years of impending judgment. The ark had one door in the side. Later in history Jesus said,

"Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not heed them. I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11).

Noah's name means "comfort" or "rest," and looks ahead to the words of Jesus,

"Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest."

The ark was likewise a coffin. Those who come into Christ by faith are identified with Him in his death, burial and resurrection. God called from "within" the ark inviting Noah and his family to enter in and find refuge.

The two calendars:

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,

This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. (Exo 12:1-2 KJV)

Months Civil (Old Religious (New)
Tishri (Ethanim) 1 7
Cheshvan (Bul) 2 8
Chisleu 3 9
Tevet 4 10
Sh'vat 5 11
Adar 6 12
Nisan (Aviv) 7 1
IIyar (Zif) 8 2
Sivan 9 3
Tammuz 10 4
Av 11 5
Elul 12 6

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:24:50 pm
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   posted 02-09-2006 10:54 PM                       
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Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores

Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday. This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.

Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.

Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.

Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10446_.html
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:26:59 pm
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quote:
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 Only 188 railroad cars would be required to hold a pair of each of the 17,600 species of animals presently known to man, according to Dr. John Morris. (This number of cars includes food supplies for a year's subsistence)
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I find that hard to believe ! 188 railroad cars to house 35,200 animals with a years supply of food. Thats 93 pairs of animals per railcar and food for those 93 pairs!! Unless we are talkiing insects, I'd say it's impossible !

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KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

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Posts: 1820 | From: Nashville, TN. | Registered: Nov 2002   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:27:27 pm
 
Huggy

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  posted 02-10-2006 11:46 AM                       
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Melting ice caps might trigger earthquakes
AFAR
2/16/2003

The melting of Japan’s mountainous snowcaps might activate nearby earthquakes. Melting ice bodies seem to be influenced by seasonal shifts, with high flooding during spring and summer.

The Pacific Plate is only a little more than 6 miles thick with nearly 2.5 miles average depth of ocean resting on it. The Pacific Plate is nearly entirely covered by the Pacific Ocean. It is like holding a large flat pan of water and having someone continually add water to it, causing the pan to become more and more unstable. Each day the Earth revolves, the ocean tides sweep a large mass of water from east to west across the Pacific Plate. The tides thus transfer gravitational energy from the sun and moon through to the Pacific plates, storing this energy little by little until a trigger causes the energy to be released as an earthquake and at the same time driving the tectonic plate movements.

As the Sun and Moon appear to rise over the Pacific, large volumes of water are pulled against the American coasts. As the Sun and Moon appear to set in the West large amounts of water are pulled against the South Pacific Islands and Asian countries causing a repetitious pulsing and stretching of the Pacific Plate. The Western Pacific Plate is being pushed under the Asian Continent and the Nazca Plate (Eastern Pacific) is being pushed under the South American Continent by this daily pulsing. The effect is dramatic and can easily be seen on a bathymetric map. (Bathymetric and topographical maps) The Nazca and Pacific Plates are the fastest spreading seafloor on the planet. The increase in ocean level from melting glaciers and ice caps is slowly accelerating the process by adding water mass to the daily tides. The added instability causes earthquakes and volcanic action, ultimately bringing more heat and carbon dioxide to the troposphere and contributing along with solar radiation to the cycle of glacial melting.

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As Above So Below.

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Posts: 1442 | From: Native forest | Registered: Apr 2005   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:28:01 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-12-2006 04:36 AM                       
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LAND OF FIRE & ICE

Sure enough, one day later, Iceland's newest volcano blew through the ice, sending smoke and ash thousands of feet into the arctic sky while millions of gallons of water from melted ice made its way downhill. It was a grand production of nature, more or less another day in Iceland.

The Vatnajökull eruption, the ultimate combination of fire and ice, was a perfect example of the geologic extremes that take place in Iceland. In the early 1960s, when the United States decided to send men to the moon, NASA scientists were confronted with the problem of finding a place on Earth similar enough to the lunar landscape so that the Apollo astronauts would know what to expect. They needed a terrain that was variegated and barren, something reminiscent of that "magnificent desolation" that Neil Armstrong would later describe on July 20, 1969 while the world listened in astonishment.

"Why not Iceland?" somebody said, "It looks like the moon."

There are certainly places on Iceland that look like they belong on another world. Rough and empty lavascapes swell up around extinct and active volcanos. Glaciers carve their way through soft rock, creating serrated ridges and valleys as defined as cut crystal. There are steaming, sulfurous blue lakes and geysers that spit up water like hidden, landlocked whales. At times, the whole country seems like a giant laboratory in the dreamscape of a sleeping geologist. But although Iceland may look like another planet, it is, if anything, more like Earth than Earth itself, a place where mother nature leans towards the demonstrative.

Why all the geologic hullabaloo? Well, the island of Iceland sits smack in the middle of something called the Mid Atlantic Ridge, a 10,000-mile long crack in the ocean floor caused by the separation of the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates. Tectonic plates are those rafts of land that float upon the Earth's molten interior, making up that thin, habitable crust upon which we live. The plates can do all sorts of things at places where they meet: they can rub each other as they head in opposite directions; they can collide head-on in a stalemate, pushing each other up or down like two fighting rams; or one might win out and push the other one beneath it. Sometimes, they don't fight at all, but move away from each other, releasing pressure and exposing the lava sea between them. The lava bubbles to the surface and cools, forming new land. When this happens, the area of separation is called a "constructive junction," and this is precisely what is happening in Iceland. The area is so constructive, in fact, that 20 million years ago the island didn't even exist.


To get an idea of the extent of geologic activity, one need only look at Iceland's volcanos. Over 30 are active, meaning that they have erupted within last few centuries. On average, Iceland experiences a major volcanic event once every 5 years, the most active volcano being the picturesque Mount Hekla. Most of this volcanism takes place along a North-South path down the center of the iceland, where the Mid Atlantic Rift passes through. The magnitude of the eruptions varies. Sometimes they do little more than steam and gurgle up slow-moving lava flows; other times they blast red hot lava thousands of feet into the air. At numerous times in the island's history, volcanoes have meant disaster. The largest recorded lava flow in world history happened here in the late 18th century, when Mount Lakagigar emitted 3 cubic miles of lava. So much ash was released that the sun was permanently obscured, and hundreds of thousands of sheep and cattle perished from the poisonous gasses. In the ensuing famine, one-third of Iceland's people died. More recently, the important fishing village of Heimaey was nearly destroyed in 1973 when a volcano called Eldfell erupted virtually inside the town. Miraculously, two-thirds of Heimaey was saved by using huge jets of water to cool the lava, which in turn created a rock dam against the flow. Ironically, by the time the eruption was over, the town's harbor was even better than before - the new land provided greater protection from wind and water.

It may be fire that created Iceland, but what shapes it is ice. Ten thousand years ago, the entire island was covered by ice, and the creeping, cutting glaciers are responsible for Iceland's extraordinary fjords and valleys. Today, a full 11 percent of the island is buried beneath ice caps, but the modern glaciers are believed to be relatively new; they probably formed around 500 BC and are still increasing. The largest glacier, Vatnajokull, is 3,200 feet thick and 3,200 square miles in area. It is not only the largest glacier in Europe, but larger than all of Europe's other glaciers combined.

While fire and ice have brought their share of destruction to the people of Iceland, they bring with them priceless gifts. The same geologic activity that creates the volcanoes provides an endless supply of geothermal energy. Over 90 percent of the island is heated by natural gas - one of the cheapest and cleanest forms of energy around. Virtually every community has its own naturally heated swimming pool. Hot springs can be found almost everywhere, and the melt water created by sub-glacial volcanoes provides the country with a limitless supply of hydroelectric power. All this clean energy has made Iceland the least polluted nation on Earth, which probably contributes to the fact that Icelanders have the longest life expectancy on the planet. Parts of Iceland may look like the moon, but in terms of livability, the island is far closer to a heaven on Earth.

http://www.geographia.com/iceland/geology1.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:28:24 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-12-2006 04:40 AM                       
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Who Was Egerton Sykes?
Egerton Sykes (1894-1983), was not only the creator of the largest private collection on Atlantis in the world, he was a mythologist, amateur archaeologist, writer, and editor, who prided himself on knowing every scientist around the world in the field of Atlantology from 1912 to 1950.
Sykes acquired a taste for unknown civilizations as a boy after reading Jules Verne’s Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. He began collecting books on Atlantis in his teenage years, a fascination that flourished during his eventful thirty-three year career in Europe and the Middle East as a foreign correspondent, British Intelligence Officer, and diplomat. During this period, Sykes lived in twenty-eight different countries, allowing him to search museums and bookstores for material pertaining to Atlantis, preferably books in their original language, since Sykes mistrusted the accuracy of translations. As a result, Sykes built up an unrivaled personal collection of well over six-thousand documents in fifteen different languages.
Sykes retired after World War II and settled in Brighton, England, to lecture, write, and run a publishing house, Markham House Press Ltd. For the next thirty-one years, Sykes published four magazines, including two bimonthly research journals, Atlantis (1948-1976) and New World Antiquity (1954-1979).
At the same time, Sykes also founded three organizations: The Atlantis Research Center, The Hoerbiger Institute, and The Avalon Society. The Atlantis Research Center was founded to investigate the probability of the lost continent of Atlantis having been the source from which was drawn the fundamental cultures of the two hemispheres. The Hoerbiger Institute was established to investigate the Theory of Cosmic Origins put forward by Hans Hoerbiger in 1913. The Avalon Society was created to investigate the probability that from the Megalithic Culture had evolved a system of orientation of sacred sites based upon a common astronomical knowledge; a system of measurement for the construction of these sites; a system of surveying; a system of naming sites; a calendrical system based upon the formulation of the Zodiac; and to consider whether the Arthurian legends, the Welsh Triads, the Nordic Sagas and Eddas, and the Celtic Legends may all contain confused recollections of this period. All three societies aimed to disseminate knowledge; link up with other bodies both in the Commonwealth and abroad; and to organize excursions to full sized expeditions for the purpose of investigating sites containing material of possible interest.
Sykes first visited the United States in 1965 on the invitation of Hugh Lynn Cayce of the Association for Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.). Sykes also lectured in Washington DC, Baltimore, Boston, Philadelphia, and to the Explorers Club in New York. Sykes’ general impression of the USA was one of kindness from everybody, and he was thrilled by the inexhaustible appetite for knowledge expressed by the American people.
Sykes was held in high regard by the learned societies to whom he lectured and wrote for. The list included The Explorers Club of New York; British Psychological Society; Royal Institute of International Affairs; Royal Geographical Society; Royal Institution; Royal Anthropological Institute; Royal Central Asian Society; British Institute of Management; Royal India Society; Institute of Industrial Administration; Royal Societies Club; Junior Carlton Club; and Royal Aero Club.
Sykes’ conclusions about Atlantis were based on a comprehensive study of ancient maps; a world survey of submerged cities; studies of rock magnetism; petroglyphs and cave paintings; linguistics; historic and mythic records of the event; physical remains of contemporary cultures; early trans-Atlantic movements; and astronomy.
In his lifetime, Sykes witnessed many outlandish ideas, once labeled wild heresies, proven otherwise: the atom split down to the level of the quark; the development of flight from the Wright Brothers to Space capsules; Marconi’s spark transmitter grow into the colored TV of today; the beginning of culture pushed back 7000-8000 years and even earlier; the acceptance of the Viking incursions into North America; and the plethora of dating processes beginning with Carbon 14.
Sykes had a wide appreciation for the mystical approach, and was interested in antigravity, map dowsing, the zodiac, the possibility of present day Neanderthals and dinosaurs, and extraterrestrial life. To use his own ESP, Sykes realized the need to have an intuitive knowledge of the subject, and the ability to focus one’s mind on it to the virtual exclusion of everything else. When asked about metaphysics, he commented, “There is no phenomena that is not subject to the natural and ordinary laws of the universe”. With respect to all things Atlantean; however, Sykes thought it best, under the circumstances, to present his left-brain to the world.
“I have spent all my life picking out from all the various books the bits that mattered to make them into a coherent picture which people can understand and work on,” Sykes declared near the end of his life. “The books in my library give you a background to refer from.”
Sykes made several comments about needing a successor. He had no one to leave his library to and no one to carry on the research. His only son, Peter, was killed in World War II. Sold to the highest bidder in 1979, the Egerton Sykes Collection is presently housed at the A.R.E. Library in Virginia Beach.
Sykes’ lifetime friend and a Member of Parliament, Julian Amery, wrote a beautiful tribute to Sykes after his death on April 27, 1983:“A great oak tree has fallen and the forest will never be the same again... Bill Sykes died full of years... He remained in possession of his faculties, physical and mental, until the end. He was held in high regard by the learned societies to whom he lectured... and for whom he was still writing at the time of his death. He was the center of a wide circle of friends of every age, persuasion, and nationality... Bill Sykes was widely travelled. He had read widely not only from the textbooks but from the Book of Life. He had given good service to his country in both world wars... He had been active in politics... If ever there was a life fulfilled this was it... He was always open to new ideas and was himself a powerhouse of fresh thought, not so usual in a man of his years. I seldom left him without a new idea... There was about him an old world courtesy combined with an endearing and rather boyish sense of humor. Above all, he had the great gift of keeping friendship in good repair.”
Indeed, Egerton Sykes left the world a wonderfully thought-provoking legacy.
Did Atlantis truly exist? The jury is still out, but no matter which side of the fence one sits on, one cannot but help tip his hat in respect to the lifetime of work by the dedicated Englishman. 'Twas on a spring day in 1983, Sykes’ ashes were scattered in the Garden of Remembrance on the southwest side of Woodvale in Brighton. On that same day, sadly to say, Atlantology lost its most powerful supporter, and went into hiding... but the story is far from over. Section top. Top.
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[ 02-12-2006, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Carolyn Silver ]
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:31:01 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-12-2006 04:43 AM                       
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Selected Articles By or about Egerton Sykes
After the end of World War II, Sykes bought Markham House Press Ltd, giving himself the opportunity to write and edit four scholarly journals: Atlantis, New World Antiquity, Pendulum, and Uranus.
Atlantis (1948-1976), originally created as the organ of the Atlantis Research Center, saw the birth and expiry of a dozen or more serious Atlantis journals in various parts of the world over its thirty-five years of existence. Sykes became editor in 1949 “as a purely temporary measure”. The name of the journal changed from Atlantean Research in 1951 to Atlantis: A Journal of Research in order to “maintain the main objective in sight but also allow incursions into allied fields of general interest”. The name changed a second time in late 1960 to simply Atlantis. An annual subscription to the bimonthly journal initially cost two shillings or $1.80 USA. Over the course of its publication, the journal published every known authority and every fresh theory “whether we agreed with it or not”. Understandably, there were immense changes in the approach to Atlantean research as a result of these new cosmological and geographical discoveries, although the broad outlines remained much the same — 12,000 years ago, there was a culture which we call Atlantis destroyed by a meteor strike, memories of which were sufficient to survive all over the world in the form of myths, legends, and folklore; and archaeological evidence likely exists today in Egypt, the Americas, the Caribbean, and even perhaps, buried somewhere on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
Atlantis (AT #20)1951JulyVol. 4 No. 2: Is There Still A Chance Of Avoiding WWIII?
Atlantis (AT #53) 1957 January Vol. 10 No. 2: Continental Drift
Atlantis (AT #58) 1957 NovemberVol. 11 No. 1: A Changing Pattern Of Existence
Atlantis (AT #60) 1958 March Vol. 11 No. 3: A Discovery Which May Prove To Be Momentous (on the discovery of underwater ruins near Bermuda)
Atlantis (AT #62) 1958 July/August Vol. 11 No. 5: The Progress Of Atlantean Research Work
Atlantis (AT #65) 1959 January/FebruaryVol. 12 No. 2: The Atlantic Routes
Atlantis (AT #86) 1963 April Vol 16 No 2: Bridging The Gap
* Atlantis (AT #92) 1964 April Vol 17 No. 2/3: Unravelling The Past
Atlantis (AT #119) 1968 November/December Vol. 21 No. 6: What Is The Answer?
* Atlantis (AT #145) 1973 October Vol. 26 No. 5: Presenting A Coherent Picture
Atlantis (AT #148) 1974 March/AprilVol. 27 No. 2: A Major Break Through In Atlantis Research (on the locations of Atlantean cities)
Uranus, a publication about astronomy and space travel, had a run of eleven years and seventy-one issues. In 1965, Uranus was united with Atlantis due to the rising costs of production. Pendulum, which focused on the subjects of gravitation and dowsing, ran for sixteen years and published one-hundred-and-ninety-two issues.
New World Antiquity (1954-1979) was an international bulletin of information about the archaeology and ethnology of the New World. There were factual accounts of current research and discussions on the antiquity of man in America. Sykes took over the editorship of New World Antiquity in 1957 until its final issue twenty-two years later.
New World Antiquity (NWA #48) 1958 August Vol. 5 No. 8: The Danger Of Fossilisation
(on the hazards of stifling scientific curiosity and some proposed solutions)
New World Antiquity (NWA #51) 1958 November Vol. 5 No. 11: A Need For A Fresh Orientation
New World Antiquity (NWA #74) 1961 February/March Vol. 8 No. 2/3: The Breaking Of The Maya Codices
New World Antiquity (NWA #109) 1966 May/June Vol. 13 No. 5/6: The Relationship Of Diffusionism To Anthropology And Archaeology
New World Antiquity (NWA #118) 1967 September/October Vol. 14 No. 9/10: A Philosophy For Archaeology
* New World Antiquity (NWA #157d) 1974 July/August Vol. 20 No. 7/8: Shortsightedness
In January 1977, Atlantis and New World Antiquity were united. Sykes’ editorial titled Envoi said it all, “For the last twenty years I have been editing Atlantis, and for the last twenty years New World Antiquity. The time has now come when I find the amount of work involved is more than I can possibly manage and, hence, the only reasonable solution appears to be to amalgamate the two journals into one. As they have been following much of the same fields of research, particularly during the last ten years, I can only hope that readers will not be unduly disappointed and will forgive me for letting them down.”
In 1979 in New World Antiquity, Sykes wrote his last editorial, Hail & Farewell, in which he stated, “For thirty years I have been riding two horses — Diffusion of peoples and Atlantis... Diffusion and Atlantis are, after all, but two facets of the same historical coins... Over the years, I have tried to play fair and have quoted every writer of consequence, irrespective of whether I agree or not...nothing which I have said is sacrosanct. Any generation of researchers can only work on the basis of the data available. With fresh knowledge the horizon widens...Now with intense regret, I feel that I have to give up New World Antiquity and this is a cause of sorrow to me as I feel that it may have managed to fill a small gap in the archaeological spectrum...”
New World Antiquity (NWA #199) 1979 November/December Vol. 26 No. 11/12: Hail And Farewell

Between Atlantis and New World Antiquity, the two journals totaled almost four-hundred volumes of scientific and academic writings on all facets of Atlantology. Factual accounts of current research, the short articles of three-hundred-and-fifty to seven-hundred words, many of which included references, stimulated much debate among scholars around the world. Sykes often boasted that all of the “ranking experts” in the field of Atlantology were in his network and contributors to the two journals. Indeed, he was proud that these delightful journals were not only interspersed with flashes of editorial humor and current events of the times, they provided a solid foundation for the serious study of all lost civilizations.
By the end of his life in 1983, Sykes had published well over three million words on the subject of Atlantis in these four journals, which are now collector’s items. Fortunately, Atlantis and New World Antiquity, along with an accompanying Index and Readers’ Guide, are once again available for the world’s enjoyment.(Atlantis and New World Antiquity issues are available here).
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:31:56 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-12-2006 04:45 AM                       
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Sykes’ 1966 Lecture To The Explorers Club In New York
On November 22, 1966, The Explorers Club of New York let one of their first Atlantologists, Egerton Sykes, through the front door, to lecture on “The Antediluvian World”. It was old hat to Sykes that the continent of Atlantis wasonce situated in the Atlantic Ocean between the Gulf of Mexico and the Mediterranean, and it stretched from the Azores to Ascension Island with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge — its highest peaks reaching 6000-feet above sea level — forming the mountainous backbone of the continent; however, most of the Club’s members were uninformed on the subject of Atlantis. Nonetheless, the courageous Sykes managed to explain what occurred, when it happened, cultural traces left behind, and what could be done nowadays to pick up the lost trails.
Sykes claimed that within a few years of Atlantis sinking, shiploads of hardy adventurers were breasting the Atlantic waves to search for remnants of the lost continent. These journeys began a continuous stream of traffic to the Americas, which lasted until the days of Columbus. He proudly boasted that Atlantology rode both the horses of Diffusion and Atlantis — two facets of the same historical coin — and set out to prove that there have been Old World cultural manifestations by Egyptians, Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Etruscans, Minoans, the Vikings, and the Irish — to name a few — on the east coast of the Americas since 10,000 BC. On the western coasts, documented traces of the Chinese, Ainu, and Jomon from Japan, dated nearly as far back.The process of diffusion left behind a whole series of river and place names, stories of adventures, and occasional artifacts.
Noticing some raised eyebrows in the audience, Sykes acknowledged that there were probably a few disbelievers present, after all, heated arguments have raged over the centuries over whether Atlantis ever really existed or not. Indeed, in France, bitter quarrels once caused the government to forbid a conference of Atlantologists, claiming it threatened the calm of the inhabitants of Paris and the safety of the buildings in which the meetings would take place.
Not intimidated in the least, Sykes nonchalantly informed his skeptical hosts, “Atlantis is a part of our history whether we like it or not.”
Sykes hypothesized that Atlantis was a place where humankind made impressive advancements in the development of civilization. The Atlanteans, a red race, were one of up to five races to appear, possibly simultaneously, in different regions of the Earth. The Atlanteans knew sufficient astronomy to have an accurate calendar; had knowledge of architecture; and worshipped Poseidon, the Sun, and the Moon. They were Rhesus negative; mummified their dead; and practiced artificial cranial deformation to produce slightly egg shaped heads with sloping foreheads. There were thousands of artificially deformed skulls in museums all over the world, and there had been some magnificent ones in the Museum of the Royal College of Surgeons before it was bombed during World War II.
Sykes debated with his peers about the cause of the catastrophe that submerged Atlantis in 10,000 BC, and entertained theories ofa meteor strike or some other stellar intruder, possibly associated with a magnetic pole reversal. The Lunar Capture Theory, as described by Hans Hoerbiger, was presently the most popular and controversial theory, as the Moon had always been regarded as a naturally born child of the Earth; not a separate, captured planet.
In 1913, Hans Hoerbiger, an Austrian engineer and amateur astronomer, with the support of Philip Fauth, the eminent astronomer, postulated that our present moon had been captured by the Earth in 10,000 BC. The event caused vast tidal waves as waters congregated around the tropical and equatorial belts; the North Pole shifted from somewhere near Petermanns Peak in Greenland to its present position; and tectonic strains caused enormous earthquakes and volcanic activity. The rain of debris, which accompanied the final dissolution of the Moon, marked the end of a geological era by crushing all that had preceded it. Atlantis plunged two to three miles underwater.
Sykes and his fellow Atlantologists researched meteorite craters all over the globe as possible proof of a cosmic bombardment, including the Carolinas, Arizona, east coast USA, the Caribbean, Arabia, Australia, Labrador, the Vredefort Ring in South Africa, and the Sahara of southern Lybia.
A persistent legend in Argentina told of a giant chunk of iron that fell from the sky in a spectacular fireball. In 1965, an American research team and an Argentinean geologist concluded that the original meteorite partly buried in the sandy soil of Campo del Cielo, the Field of the Sky, was part of a moon that fell to Earth. The Bushmen, the oldest inhabitants of South Africa, pay special reverence to meteorite pieces as their oral legends teach that the Moon is responsible for everything that has taken place — good or bad — and tell of a tremendous disaster on Earth in which the Moon played a significant part.
Plato’s dialogue of Critias supported the Hoerbiger Theory when the Egyptian priest said, “Often and in many ways has mankind suffered destruction, and will again be destroyed, mainly through fire and water... This sounds like a myth, but the true kernel of it is the altered courses of the bodies moving around the Earth...”
The Club members gradually opened their minds as the passionate Englishman brilliantly intertwined mythology and science.
Major terrestrial changes accompanied the catastrophe of 10,000 BC: the end of the Ice Age; the formation of the Sargasso Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, and the Great Rift of Africa; the desiccation of the Sahara; and the quick freezing of mammoths in northeastern Siberia — so quick that the beasts’ cells were preserved intact, and the creatures’ mouths and stomachs contained green grass and fresh dandelions.Carbon-14 dating used on the famous Taimyr mammoth found in 1948, showed that the animal lived 12,000 years ago.
As the last fragmented islands of Atlantis descended to the depths, the final wave of migrants fled to Central and South America, France, Spain, Portugal, the Pyrenees mountains, and Egypt. It took humanity many thousands of years to recover from the shock. The survivors had witnessed astonishing cosmic and terrestrial phenomenon, and recorded their honest accounts in the world’s religious and classical literature, history, mythology, legend, folklore, and customs. Archaeology provided more tangible evidence in the ruins of cities and temples, ancient calendars, petroglyphs, and artifacts.
Sykes sketched a hazy outline of cultural connections between ancient peoples, and remarked that he desperately wanted the mysteries of the Egyptians and Maya solved in his lifetime. Sykes hoped that someday, the complex biology ofblood groups, in combination with linguistic studies,would allow us to trace the migration path of any given group of people.
Well-versed in mythology, Sykes reminded the Club members that the six-hundred Deluge stories of different races around the world, among peoples who knew the sea well and among those who lived far inland, are not simply coincidental. The Flood was a universal event. Stories of the Deluge are to be found in the Sagas; the Eddas (records of Nordic history that may have the only account of the beginning of an ice age known to mankind); the Puranas; Greek myths; the Book of Genesis; and in the memories of the Algonquins, Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Toltecs, Babylonians, Hebrews, Egyptians, and Chinese. In Peru, there were strange tales of the Moon’s capture by a fiery dragon in the days before the great flood. Many of the creation legends of Latin America start with the first men digging themselves out of caves to the surface after a major catastrophe that preceded the Deluge.
Sykes thought it interesting that in all early religions, men were the children of the representatives of the gods of the Earth, and not the objects of their creation. Sykes viewed the Bible as the best history book available between 2000 BC and AD 100, and liked to clarify that religious history is as full of inaccuracies as any other form. The story of Noah in the Old Testament was an eyewitness account of the Deluge, and the Garden of Eden was a memory of the dispute between the Serpent Worshippers and the High Priest.
“Serpent worship appears to be the oldest religious activity in the world”, Sykes speculated, and went on to state his belief that it started somewhere near what is now the Gobi Desert. The Snake Priestesses were the healers of antiquity, and these famous women oracles of the past included Medea, Medusa, and the Delphic Oracle. The art of the Maya in Yucatan shows that the feathered serpent was important in religion. Some Indian tribes in America had a tradition of a Snake Island in the Atlantic Ocean. There are three serpent mounds in Ohio. A tradition existed throughout the Near East, of an all powerful and wise serpent clan of rulers dating back to remote times, who were in some way connected with catastrophe stories of a cosmic nature. Sykes assumed that they were a pre-Deluge race of humans having the serpent as their totem.
Sykes chuckled as he recalled the time in 1947, when he was denied a visa by the Turkish government to head an expedition to look for Noah’s ark on Mount Ararat. Sykes had wanted to date the wood of the ship, and thus, prove the time of the Deluge.
“There are a scant 149 classical references to Atlantis which have survived to the present day. Unfortunately, there have been extensive losses of ancient literature in both the New and Old World”, Sykes lectured. “No doubt the burning of the Library at Alexandria in AD 641 and the destruction of the Maya codices by Bishop Landa, deprived us of keys to the past. Still, the truth may lay in the hundreds of tons of unsorted and untranslated documents lying in the cellars of religious, educational, and secular buildings throughout Europe, the Near East, and Russian Central Asia...”
Sykes’ finishing stroke referred to the fascinating branch of the science of Atlantology which studied other mythical lost civilizations, including the Lemurian culture. Those sculptures with enormous ears twice as long as normal and reaching down to the chin were those of the Lemurian culture, a generic term for the half dozen cultures existing at various early times in the Pacific Ocean island groups. “There is no satisfactory means of dating rude stone monuments, and the lack of written material means that we have only a vague idea as to the nature of the Pacific civilizations,” he stated confidently. “We have the numerous megalithic structures in the Caroline Islands; Angkor Vat, the mysterious city of French Indo-China with its monstrous snake images; the Venice of the Pacific on Ponape; Malden Island’s forty stone temples joined by paved highways, some of which vanish into the sea; and Thor Heyerdahl’s captivating tales of Easter Island — but they are only a speck of the story...”
The Explorers Club members listened to what Sykes had to say with great patience and asked many valuable questions afterwards.At the end of the evening, Sykes was presented with aninscribed vellum scroll as a gesture of thanks. In return, Sykes left the crowd with some parting words to ponder, “When I was a boy it was stated by practically everybody that the atom was indivisible, and only a few daring heretics dared to suggest otherwise.”
As an appendix to Sykes’ lecture, Dr. Manson Valentine, a Yale Professor of Zoology, and a daring archaeologist, gave an account of some of his most recent discoveries in the Caribbean Islands — finds possibly related to Atlantis.
On his application for membership to The Explorers Club of New York, Sykes wrote, “Atlantis apart, I still am an authority on the political background of Eastern Europe, the Near East, and the Mediterranean, all of which I know extremely well, having covered the area as a soldier in two world wars as a foreign correspondent and as a diplomat. To recapitulate: My ideas may not be agreed with by everybody, but I adhere strictly to logical and scientific principles in my work on them.”
Dr. William R. Nethercut, Professor of Greek and Latin at Columbia University in New York, wrote a supportive seconding-letter in August 1967 to The Explorers Club Committee on Admissions. Nethercut wrote, “Atlantis is a controversial issue, and there may be some reluctance to accept Mr. Sykes’ petition for membership on the very grounds that his name is linked with the problem. Those members of the Committee who attended his talk on Atlantis will have formed their own judgments about the value of what was said. I shall point out, in any case, that the candidate’s edition of Donnelly’s work (Ignatius Donnelly, a Minnesota congressman and known as the founder of the modern science of Atlantology, published Atlantis: The Antediluvian World in 1882 to rave reviews) represents a service... Sykes also published an up-to-date list of all books and articles pertaining to Atlantis through the years, and has collected all the classical references to the problem. This bibliographical work is objective and fills a need. His time has not been wasted on it.”
Sykes was accepted as a member of The Explorers Club in April 1968, and in 1977, he became the Chairman of the British Chapter of the Explorers Club of New York. Section top.
Top.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Egerton Sykes Bibliography
Some Essays
(Atlantis and New World Antiquity issues are available here).
Antinea—Search For A Love Queen
Atlantis (AT #140) 1972 October Vol. 25 No. 5/6
Astrology
Atlantis Key To The Past
Bimini
Atlantis (AT #150) 1974 July/August Vol. 27 No. 4
Carnac And The Megalith Builders
Classical References To Atlantis
Atlantis Research Center Classical References To Atlantis Compiled By Egerton Sykes. Rome. February 1947.
Diffusion from The Eastern Mediterranean
New World Antiquity (NWA #127) 1968 March/April Vol. 15 No. 3/4
East and West Series
El Dorado
New World Antiquity (NWA #168) 1974 November/December Vol. 21 No. 11/12
European Literature On Atlantis 1914-1950
Glaston And The Holy Grail
Hoerbiger And The March Of Science
Atlantis (AT #160) 1976 Summer Vol. 29 No. 3
Jerusalem And Baalbek
New World Antiquity (NWA #139) 1970 January/February Vol. 17 No. 1/2
Lemuria Reconsidered
Atlantis (At #114) 1968 January/February Vol. 21 No. 1
Life On Other Planets
Atlantis (AT #84) 1962 December Vol. 15 No. 5/6
Meteor Strikes And The Hoerbiger Theory
Atlantis (AT #133) 1971 April/July Vol. 24 No. 3/4
Negative Matter (2 articles)
Atlantis (AT #26) 1952 July Vol. 5 No. 2
Atlantis (AT #27) 1952 September Vol. 5 No. 3
Nicolas Of Lynn
Atlantis (AT #122) 1969 May/June Vol. 22 No. 3
Noah’s Ark And The Deluge
Atlantis (AT #6) 1949 March Vol. 1 No. 6
Parapsychology (2nd Edition)
Ragnarok
Atlantis (AT #124) 1969 September/October Vol. 22 No. 5
The Azores And Early Explorers Of The Atlantic (2nd Edition)
Atlantis (AT #75) 1960 October Vol. 13 No. 6
The Bermuda Triangle
The Clockwise Diffusionists (2nd Edition)
Atlantis (AT #152)1975 January Vol. 28 No. 2
The Extra Terrestrials (2nd Edition)
The Garden Of Eden
The Keely Mystery
Atlantis (AT #141) 1973 January Vol. 26 No. 1
The Pyramids Of Egypt (2nd Edition)
The Schliemann Mystery
Atlantis (AT #23) 1952 January Vol. 4 No. 5

Books
Atlantis: The Antediluvian World by Ignatius Donnelly
Revised by Egerton Sykes in 1949 and 1970.
Everyman’s Dictionary Of Non-Classical Mythology by Egerton Sykes
First published 1952. Revised 1961, 1962, 1965.
Who’s Who in Non-Classical Mythology by Egerton Sykes and Alan Kendall
Published in 2003.
Section top. Top.


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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:42:49 pm
---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores. They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships. Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.



Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.

Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.



At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.



I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.
________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:48:26 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 02-12-2006 04:47 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SURVEY OF ATLANTIS

A brief compilation of evidence to encourage further scientific research and analysis of the issues by specialists to prove or disprove the O'Brien thesis of the recent existence of a large Mid-Atlantis Ridge island centred on the Azores.

INTRODUCTION

Christian O'Brien in Chapter 18 of The Shining Ones features the basic historical and geological evidence which identifies the Azores as the site of the Island of Atlantis. In an outstanding career as exploration geologist he is no stranger to successfully challenging established perceptions and raises the key issue of the deep crustal rifting associated with such flood basalt constructions.

He has produced the survey of the Island, shown within the attached documents taken from Admiralty Charts, which have now been superseded by the more accurate Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map also shown. Further detailed hydrographic input is required in order to present a even clearer picture to allow further studies and the siting for new sediment cores in un-disturbed areas.

The technology needed to prove or disprove the Atlantis issue is now available. Science has reached the point of being able to understand both the creation of' such large structures and the subsequent catastrophic movements in the earths crust, which have destroyed them. Finding and dating the remains of fresh water life at depths of up to 4000 metres, finding coral, sandy beaches and volcanic material below sea level and identifying former river valleys is within reach and we look forward to providing further news on this subject later in the year.

So far this century there has been a confirmed report of a one mile rise in the floor of the ocean 576 miles north of Azores when a trans-atlantic cable broke. Dr David F. Zhirov in 1970 reported sand beaches and coral at a depths of 2 miles south of the Azores. Confirmed evidence exists that sections of the Mid-Atlantic ridge have been above sea level in the past and fresh water diatoms have been found 2 miles down in the Azores area dated 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

Volcanic material described as un-dissolved tachylite was found on Telegraph Bank 500 miles north of Azores, indicating that it had been laid down above sea level at some time between 50,000 BC and 10,000 BC. Sediment core analysis at locations off the coast of Africa have proved a 2 mile sinkage of volcanic island structures similar to those of the Azores.

The more detailed evidence provided by the latest underwater surveys will assist in identify the former glacial sea level, and locating the river canyons of' a large island where rivers Joined the sea before sea levels rose, thus matching the river canyon features of the American, European and African continental shelves.

Open minds are required to concentrate current resources on the many disciplines required to re-create or resolve this mystery which has immense importance to our understanding of human origins and human diffusion. In particular, migrations from Africa to the America's from 60,000 BC.

Important knowledge has been gathered at other sites on flood basalt formations, collapsed volcanic cones, plate tectonics, deep crustal rifting together with the rebound by up to 1km of the thick and old earths crust freed from the weight of glacial ice and the compensatory sinkage of perhaps up to 4km In the fragile young and thin oceananic crustal areas adjacent to major active fault zones.

The Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map, contoured in metres, shows the islands of the Azores as the volcanic peaks of the worlds greatest Mountain range. The area is bounded on the west by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rift valley fault, to the north by the Kurchatov Fracture Zone, on the east by deep ocean, and on the whole southern flank by the massive and deep East Azores Fracture Zone. Here we can see the three major tectonic plates which converge in this fragile crustal area, making it perhaps the most unstable structure on the planet.

There is no doubt that world sea levels have risen on average some 400 feet since the maximum influence of the Ice Age, although the identification of shore lines at this date around 16,500 BC must be considered in the light of much greater compensatory movements in the earths crust and other factors. Certainly a large island at this latitude would have been a suitable glacial refuge for plants, animals and man, during a highly inhospitable, cold and extremely dry climatic phase with so much of the earths moisture locked tip within Ice sheets.

Sea level rises may have been relatively stable in the area of Atlantis until two accelerated sea rises, due to massive melt water discharges, from land/ice locked lakes around 12,000 BC (50-40cm per annum) and 9,300 BC (30-20 mm per annum). A third and final accelerated rise took occured between 6,000 and 5,500 BC as result of further melt water discharges. The process of' sea level rise took place as the earth warmed to the highest levels recorded for over 120,000 years, peaking before 2350 BC by some 3°C higher than current levels.

The observational evidence of the geological structure of the Azores Islands, above and below current sea level, does provide evidence of river systems, which must have been created by a much larger land area. However not enough convincing evidence exists because of substantial past volcanic activity, subsidence and land slippage within the area. This creates problems in searching both for ancient remains or biological evidence that may still exist.

Catastrophic flooding, collapse and sinking at around 9,500 BC has been suggested by many historical sources and it has now become a simple matter for science to prove or disprove the thesis. Confirmation and dating of a very large sunken island requires access to and analysis of just a few sediment cores and a search for underwater structures in key locations. These may exist from just below the surface of the sea down to a depth of 11,000 feet.

It is important to realise that the O'Brien survey and the small adjustment for tilt re- creates the island as clearly described by Plato and many other independent and unconnected sources. The major building structures, if they still exist, will lie to the south west of the great plain in an area covered by the greatest depth of.' water close to the catastrophic crustal rifting of the East Azores Fault Zone, which can be clearly seen on the Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map.

We have featured more than 30 important books on our recommended reading list, which in total have produced a weight of evidence to support the basic thesis presented by O'Brien, spanning from the common records of the earliest antiquity to serious modern research. Only now are we beginning to appreciate the stature and reliability of the records presented by Solon and Plato, and accept recent Scientific explanations for related dramatic crustal rifting movements and vertical movements of the earths crust.

On a world wide scale there is common story of a great flood preceded by exceptional rainfall and accompanied by earth quakes and volcanic eruptions. It may be of significance to state that tsunami tidal waves were not directly mentioned in connection with this great flood story and that modern science has identified and dated three distinct rapid rises and three small declines in sea level since the ice age as the worlds climate warmed. The first great flood may have held more significance to early man and Atlantis, than the many subsequent floods and other natural disasters. The latter include interruptions to the circulatory flow of the Gulf Stream through fresh water input/ice melt, and episodic cometary debris impacts.

We welcome further input into this project from all interested parties. The more detailed hydrographic information, which we hope to obtain from the Portuguese authorities and the Southampton University Oceanographic Department, will allow a few small steps to be made to either dismiss the existence of Atlantis at this site or confirm the detailed evidence to re-create the great legend as fact.


MAPS

For a comprehensive map of The Azores - click here

The Azores


A much clearer verion of this map can be downloaded by clicking here


A reconstruction of the Main Island of Plato's Atlantis (by raising the Contoured Sea Bed around the Islands of the Azores). Assumed tilt from South to North = 0°.37


A much clearer verion of this map can be downloaded by clicking here

The downloaded file is zipped (compressed) and needs to be unzipped before viewing. We recommend using WinZip.


If you do not have WinZip you can download it here.


DISPLAY PRINTS AND KEY TEXTS

Proof of the former existance of a large island on the Mid Atlantic Ridge click here
Atl symbol in Aztec zodiac click here
Plate Tectonics click here
Plate Tectonics click here
Minoan civilization click here
Codex troano click here
Calendar of Denderah click here
Aztec story click here
Younger Edda click here
Atlantis and her peoples click here
Escape from Atlantis click here
The Lady of Elche click here
Atlantean temple healing practices click here
Mount Pico click here
Atlantis and her peoples click here
Carthage click here
Speculative land of Atlantis click here
The capital city of Atlantis click here
Ni-duk-ki click here
Mount Pico click here
Atlantis - myth or reality click here
Atlantis - myth or reality? click here
Flood Legends and Ciphers click here
Land areas click here
Seven Cities click here
Atlantis? click here


LINKS TO OTHER SITES

Geological data by David Pratt: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sunken.htm




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http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:49:22 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/platoillustration.html)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:57:03 pm
(http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/atlantis_visualisation.jpg)

Atlantis 3D Visualisation - Sea Floor Subsidence - click here - Giving support for the O'Brien Survey - added to site on 21st January 2007

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:58:24 pm
Sunken Continents versus Continental Drift



David Pratt



Contents

Introduction

Plate tectonics -- a failed revolution
        Plates in motion?
        Continental drift
        Seafloor spreading and subduction

Emergence and submergence
        Vertical tectonics
        The continents
        The oceans

Conclusion

References

Select bibliography



NB: For a more detailed critique of plate tectonics, see: Plate Tectonics: A Paradigm Under Threat, Journal of Scientific Exploration, vol. 14, no. 3, 2000, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/tecto.htm

______________________________________



Introduction

That worlds (also Races) are periodically destroyed by fire (volcanoes and earthquakes) and water, in turn, and renewed, is a doctrine as old as man. . . . Twice already has the face of the globe been changed by fire, and twice by water, since man appeared on it. As land needs rest and renovation, new forces, and a change for its soil, so does water. Thence arises a periodical redistribution of land and water, change of climates, etc., all brought on by geological revolution, and ending in a final change in the axis. (H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, 2:725-6)
In the latter half of the 19th century, when the above passage was written, the idea of submerged continents was accepted by many prominent geologists. This continued to be the case well into the 20th century, though the idea gradually began to go out of fashion. In the mid-1960s came the plate-tectonics 'revolution' in the earth sciences. Plate tectonics firmly denies that large landmasses can be elevated from the ocean floor or submerged to oceanic depths.    According to plate tectonics, the earth's outer shell, or lithosphere, is divided into a number of large, rigid, moving plates that interact at their boundaries, where they converge, diverge, or slide past one another. Such interactions are believed to be responsible for most of the seismic and volcanic activity of the earth. Plates cause mountains to rise where they push together, and continents to fracture and oceans to form where they rift apart. The continents, sitting passively on the backs of the plates, drift with them, at the rate of a few centimeters a year. At the end of the Permian, some 250 million years ago,* all the present continents are said to have been gathered together in a single supercontinent, Pangaea, consisting of two major landmasses: Laurasia in the north, and Gondwanaland in the south. Pangaea is believed to have started fragmenting in the Early Jurassic -- though some 'authorities' place the event earlier, in the Triassic, or even as late as the Cretaceous -- leading to the configuration of oceans and continents observed today.


*All dates given in this article are official 'scientific' dates. For the corresponding theosophical dates, see: Geochronology: theosophy and science, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/geochron.htm.
    It has been said that 'A hypothesis that is appealing for its unity or simplicity acts as a filter, accepting reinforcement with ease but tending to reject evidence that does not seem to fit.' Some proponents of plate tectonics have admitted that in the late 1960s a bandwagon atmosphere developed, and that data that did not fit into the new plate-tectonics model were not given sufficient consideration, resulting in a disturbing dogmatism. In the words of one critic, geology has become 'a bland mixture of descriptive research and interpretive papers in which the interpretation is a facile cookbook application of plate-tectonics concepts . . . used as confidently as trigonometric functions' [1]. A modern geological textbook acknowledges that 'Geologists, like other people, are susceptible to fads' [2].
    V.A. Saull pointed out that no global tectonic model should ever be considered definitive, since geological and geophysical observations are nearly always open to alternative explanations. He also stated that even if plate tectonics were false, it would be difficult to refute and replace, for the following reasons: the processes supposed to be responsible for plate dynamics are rooted in regions of the earth so poorly known that it is hard to prove or disprove any particular model of them; the hard core of belief in plate tectonics is protected from direct assault by auxiliary hypotheses that are still being generated; and the plate model is so widely believed to be correct that it is difficult to get alternative interpretations published in the scientific literature [3].
    The plate-tectonics hypothesis has faced growing criticism as the number of observational anomalies has increased. It will shown below that plate tectonics faces some fundamental -- and in fact fatal -- problems.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 10:59:39 pm
Plate tectonics -- a failed revolution

Plates in motion?

According to the classical model of plate tectonics, lithospheric plates move over a relatively plastic layer of partly molten rock known as the asthenosphere (or low-velocity zone). The lithosphere, which comprises the earth's crust and uppermost mantle, is said to average about 70 km thick beneath oceans and to be 100 to 250 km thick beneath continents. A powerful challenge to this model is posed by seismic tomography, which produces three-dimensional images of the earth's interior. It shows that the oldest parts of the continents have deep roots extending to depths of 400 to 600 km, and that the asthenosphere is essentially absent beneath them. Seismic research shows that even under the oceans there is no continuous asthenosphere, only disconnected asthenospheric lenses.
    The crust and uppermost mantle have a highly complex, irregular structure; they are divided by faults into a mosaic of separate, jostling blocks of different shapes and sizes, and of varying internal structure and strength. N.I. Pavlenkova concludes: 'This means that the movement of lithospheric plates over long distances, as single rigid bodies, is hardly possible. Moreover, if we take into account the absence of the asthenosphere as a single continuous zone, then this movement seems utterly impossible' [1]. Although the concept of thin lithospheric plates moving thousands of kilometers over a global asthenosphere is untenable, most geological textbooks continue to propagate this simplistic model, and fail to give the slightest indication that it faces any problems.

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig1.jpg)

Figure 1. Seismotomographic cross-section showing velocity structure across the North American craton and North Atlantic Ocean. High-velocity (colder) lithosphere, shown in dark tones, underlies the Canadian shield to depths of 250 to 500 km. (Reprinted with permission from Grand [2]. Copyright by the American Geophysical Union.)



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:33:55 pm
The driving force of plate movements was initially claimed to be mantle-deep convection currents welling up beneath midocean ridges, with downwelling occurring beneath ocean trenches. Plate tectonicists expected seismotomography to provide clear evidence of a well-organized convection-cell pattern, but it has actually provided strong evidence against the existence of large, plate-propelling convection cells in the mantle. The favored plate-driving mechanisms at present are 'ridge-push' and 'slab-pull', but their adequacy is very much in doubt.
    Thirteen major plates are currently recognized, ranging in size from about 400 by 2500 km to 10,000 by 10,000 km, together with a proliferating number of microplates (over 100 so far). Plate boundaries are identified and defined mainly on the basis of earthquake and volcanic activity. The close correspondence between plate edges and belts of earthquakes and volcanoes is therefore to be expected and can hardly be regarded as one of the 'successes' of plate tectonics! A major problem is that several 'plate boundaries' are purely theoretical and appear to be nonexistent, including the northwest Pacific boundary of the Pacific, North American, and Eurasian plates, the southern boundary of the Philippine plate, part of the southern boundary of the Pacific plate, and most of the northern and southern boundaries of the South American plate.




Continental drift

Geological field mapping provides evidence for horizontal crustal movements of up to several hundred kilometers. Plate tectonics, however, claims that continents have moved up to 7000 km or more since the alleged breakup of Pangaea. Satellite measurements of crustal movements have been hailed by some geologists as having proved plate tectonics. Such measurements provide a guide to crustal strains, but do not provide evidence for plate motions of the kind predicted by plate tectonics unless the relative motions predicted among all plates are observed. However, many of the results have shown no definite pattern, and have been confusing and contradictory, giving rise to a variety of ad-hoc hypotheses. For instance, distances from the Central South American Andes to Japan or Hawaii are more or less constant, whereas plate tectonics predicts significant separation. The practise of extrapolating present crustal movements tens or hundreds of millions of years into the past or future is clearly a hazardous exercise.
    A 'compelling' piece of evidence that all the continents were once united in one large landmass is said to be the fact that they can be fitted together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. However, although many reconstructions have been attempted, none are entirely acceptable. In the Bullard et al. computer-generated fit, for example, there are a number of glaring omissions. The whole of Central America and much of southern Mexico -- a region of some 2,100,000 km² -- has been left out because it overlaps South America. The entire West Indian archipelago has also been omitted. In fact, much of the Caribbean is underlain by ancient continental crust, and the total area involved, 300,000 km², overlaps Africa. The Cape Verde Islands-Senegal basin, too, is underlain by ancient continental crust, creating an additional overlap of 800,000 km². Several major submarine structures that appear to be of continental origin are also ignored, including the Faeroe-Iceland-Greenland Ridge, Jan Mayen Ridge, Walvis Ridge, Rio Grande Rise, and the Falkland Plateau.

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig2.jpg)

Figure 2. The Bullard fit. Overlaps and gaps between continents are shown in black. (Reprinted with permission from Bullard et al. [3]. Copyright by The Royal Society.)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:35:21 pm
Like the Bullard fit, the Smith & Hallam reconstruction of the Gondwanaland continents tries to fit the continents along the 500-fathom (1-km) depth contour on the continental shelves. The South Orkneys and South Georgia are omitted, as is Kerguelen Island in the Indian Ocean, and there is a large gap west of Australia. Fitting India against Australia, as in other fits, leaves a corresponding gap in the western Indian Ocean. Dietz & Holden based their fit on the 2-km depth contour, but they still have to omit the Florida-Bahamas platform, ignoring the evidence that it predates the alleged commencement of drift. In many regions the boundary between continental and oceanic crust appears to occur beneath oceanic depths of 2-4 km or more, and in some places the ocean-continent transition zone is several hundred kilometers wide. This means that any reconstructions based on arbitrarily selected depth contours are flawed. Given the liberties that drifters have had to take to obtain the desired continental matches, their computer-generated fits may well be a case of 'garbage in, garbage out'.
    The curvature of continental contours is often so similar that many shorelines can be fitted together quite well even though they can never have been in juxtaposition. For instance, eastern Australia fits well with eastern North America, and there are also remarkable geological and paleontological similarities, probably due to the similar tectonic backgrounds of the two regions. The geological resemblances of opposing Atlantic coastlines may be due to the areas having belonged to the same tectonic belt, but the differences -- which are rarely mentioned -- are sufficient to show that the areas were situated in distant parts of the belt. H.P. Blavatsky regarded the similarities in the geological structure, fossils, and marine life of the opposite coasts of the Atlantic in certain periods as evidence that 'there has been, in distant pre-historic ages, a continent which extended from the coast of Venezuela, across the Atlantic Ocean, to the Canarese Islands and North Africa, and from Newfoundland nearly to the coast of France' [4].
    One of the main props of continental drift is paleomagnetism -- the study of the magnetism of ancient rocks and sediments. For each continent a 'polar wander path' can be constructed, and these are interpreted to mean that the continents have moved vast distances over the earth's surface. However, paleomagnetism is very unreliable and frequently produces inconsistent and contradictory results. For instance, paleomagnetic data imply that during the mid-Cretaceous Azerbaijan and Japan were in the same place! When individual paleomagnetic pole positions, rather than averaged curves, are plotted on world maps, the scatter is huge, often wider than the Atlantic.
    One of the basic assumptions of paleomagnetism is that rocks retain the magnetization they acquire at the time they formed. In reality, rock magnetism is subject to modification by later magnetism, weathering, metamorphism, tectonic deformation, and chemical changes. Horizontal and vertical rotations of crustal blocks further complicate the picture. Another questionable assumption is that over long periods of time the geomagnetic field approximates a simple dipole (N-S) field oriented along the earth's rotation axis. If, in the past, there were stable magnetic anomalies of the same intensity as the present-day East Asian anomaly (or slightly more intensive), this would render the geocentric axial dipole hypothesis invalid.
    The opening of the Atlantic Ocean allegedly began in the Cretaceous by the rifting apart of the Eurasian and American plates. However, on the other side of the globe, northeastern Eurasia is joined to North America by the Bering-Chukotsk shelf, which is underlain by Precambrian continental crust that is continuous and unbroken from Alaska to Siberia. Geologically these regions constitute a single unit, and it is unrealistic to suppose that they were formerly divided by an ocean several thousand kilometers wide, which closed to compensate for the opening of the Atlantic. If a suture is absent there, one ought to be found in Eurasia or North America, but no such suture appears to exist. Similarly, geology indicates that there has been a direct tectonic connection between Europe and Africa across the zones of Gibraltar and Rif on the one hand, and Calabria and Sicily on the other, at least since the end of the Paleozoic, contradicting plate-tectonic claims of significant displacement between Europe and Africa during this period.
    India supposedly detached itself from Antarctica sometime during the Mesozoic, and then drifted northeastward up to 9000 km, over a period of up to 200 million years, until it finally collided with Asia in the mid-Tertiary, pushing up the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau. That Asia happened to have an indentation of approximately the correct shape and size and in exactly the right place for India to 'dock' into would amount to a remarkable coincidence. There is, however, overwhelming geological and paleontological evidence that India has been an integral part of Asia since Precambrian time. If the long journey of India had actually happened, it would have been an isolated island-continent for millions of years -- sufficient time to have evolved a highly distinct endemic fauna. However, the Mesozoic and Tertiary faunas show no such endemism, but indicate instead that India lay very close to Asia throughout this period, and not to Australia and Antarctica. It would appear that the supposed 'flight of India' is no more than a flight of fancy!
    It is often claimed that plate-tectonic reassemblies of the continents can help to explain climatic changes and the distribution of plants and animals in the past. However, detailed studies have shown that shifting the continents succeeds at best in explaining local or regional climatic features for a particular period, and invariably fails to explain the global climate for the same period. A.A. Meyerhoff et al. showed in a detailed study that most major biogeographical boundaries, based on floral and faunal distributions, do not coincide with the partly computer-generated plate boundaries postulated by plate tectonics. The authors comment: 'What is puzzling is that such major inconsistencies between plate tectonic postulates and field data, involving as they do boundaries that extend for thousands of kilometers, are permitted to stand unnoticed, unacknowledged, and unstudied.' Before their study was published by the Geological Society of America, a group of earth-science graduates was invited to study the manuscript. They became deeply disturbed by what they read, and commented: 'If this global study of biodiversity through time is correct, and it is very convincingly presented, then a lot of what we are being taught about plate tectonics should more aptly be called "Globaloney" ' [5].
    It is unscientific to select a few faunal identities and ignore the vastly greater number of faunal dissimilarities from different continents which were supposedly once joined [6]. The known distributions of fossil organisms are more consistent with an earth model like that of today than with continental-drift models. Some of the paleontological evidence appears to require the alternate emergence and submergence of land dispersal routes only after the supposed breakup of Pangaea. For example, mammal distribution indicates that there were no direct physical connections between Europe and North America during Late Cretaceous and Paleocene times, but suggests a temporary connection with Europe during the Eocene. A few drifters have recognized the need for intermittent land bridges after the supposed separation of the continents. Various oceanic ridges, rises, and plateaus could have served as land bridges, as many are known to have been partly above water at various times in the past. There is growing evidence that these land bridges formed part of larger former landmasses in the present oceans (see below).
    The present distribution of land and water is characterized by a number of notable regularities. First, the continents tend to be triangular, with their pointed ends to the south. Second, the northern polar ocean is almost entirely ringed by land, from which three continents project southward, while the continental landmass at the south pole is surrounded by water, with three oceans projecting northward. Third, the oceans and continents are arranged antipodally -- i.e. if there is land in one area of the globe, there tends to be water in the corresponding area on the opposite side of the globe.
    The Arctic Ocean is precisely antipodal to Antarctica; North America is exactly antipodal to the Indian Ocean; Europe and Africa are antipodal to the central area of the Pacific Ocean; Australia is antipodal to the North Atlantic; and the South Atlantic corresponds -- though less exactly -- to the eastern half of Asia.* Only 7% of the earth's surface does not obey the antipodal rule. If the continents had slowly drifted thousands of kilometers to their present positions, the antipodal arrangement of land and water would have to be regarded as purely coincidental. The antipodal arrangement of land and seas reflects the tetrahedral plan of the earth. If one corner of the tetrahedron is placed in Antarctica, at the south pole, the other three lie in three vast blocks of very ancient, Archean rocks in the northern hemisphere: the Canadian shield, the Scandinavian shield, and the Siberian shield, and the three edges correspond to the three roughly meridional lines running through the three pairs of continents: North and South America, Europe and Africa, Asia and Australia.**



*Rupert Sheldrake likens the earth to a developing organism, and says that the existence of an ocean at the north pole and a continent at the south pole may be the culmination of a morphogenetic process: 'Such a morphological polarization of a spherical body is very familiar in the realm of biology; for example, in the formation of poles in fertilized eggs' (The Rebirth of Nature, Bantam, 1991, p. 161).
**J.W. Gregory suggested that in the Upper Paleozoic the tetrahedron was the other way up, with one corner at the north pole. Instead of a continuous southern ocean-belt separating triangular points of land, there was then a southern land-belt, supported by three great equidistant cornerstones: the Archean blocks of South America, South Africa, and Australia.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:36:11 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/antipodal.jpg)

Figure 3. The antipodal arrangement of land and sea. (Reprinted with permission from Gregory [7]. Copyright by the Royal Geographical Society.)

    Another significant fact is that the triple points formed where 'plate boundaries' (i.e. seismic belts) meet coincide very closely with the vertices of an icosahedron, which, like the tetrahedron, is one of the five regular polyhedra or Platonic solids. This, too, would be a remarkable coincidence if 'plates' had really changed their shape and size to the extent postulated in plate tectonics.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:36:53 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/icosa.jpg)


Figure 4. Major seismotectonic belts/'plate boundaries' (broken lines) compared with an icosahedron. (Reprinted with permission from Spilhaus [8]. Copyright by the American Geophysical Union.)



Seafloor spreading and subduction

According to the seafloor-spreading hypothesis, new oceanic crust is generated at midocean ridges by the upwelling of molten material from the earth's mantle, and as the magma cools it spreads away from the flanks of the ridges. The horizontally moving plates are said to plunge back into the mantle at ocean trenches or 'subduction zones'.
    The ocean floor is far from having the uniform characteristics that conveyor-type spreading would imply. The mantle is asymmetrical in relation to the midocean ridges and has a complicated mosaic structure independent of the strike of the ridge. N.C. Smoot and A.A. Meyerhoff showed that nearly all published charts of the world's ocean floors have been drawn deliberately to reflect the predictions of the plate-tectonics hypothesis, and the most accurate charts now available are widely ignored because they do not conform to plate-tectonic preconceptions [9]. Side-scanning radar images show that the midocean ridges are cut by thousands of long, linear, ridge-parallel fissures, fractures, and faults. This strongly suggests that the ridges are underlain at shallow depth by interconnected magma channels, in which semi-fluid lava moves horizontally and parallel with the ridges rather than at right-angles to them.
    The oldest known rocks from the continents are just under 4 billion years old, whereas -- according to plate tectonics -- none of the ocean crust is older than 200 million years (Jurassic). This is cited as conclusive evidence that oceanic crust is constantly being created at midocean ridges and consumed in subduction zones. There is in fact abundant evidence against the alleged youth of the ocean floor, though geological textbooks tend to pass over it in silence.
    Scientists involved in the Deep Sea Drilling Project were apparently motivated by a strong desire to confirm seafloor spreading. They have given the impression that the basalt (layer 2) found beneath the sedimentary sequences (layer 1) at the bottom of many deep-sea drillholes is basement, with no further, older sediments below it. Yet in some cases there is clear evidence that the basalt is a later intrusion into existing sediments. The ocean floor needs to be drilled to much greater depths -- up to 5 km -- to see whether there are Triassic, Paleozoic, or Precambrian sediments below the so-called basement.
    Plate tectonics predicts that the age of the oceanic crust should increase systematically with distance from the midocean ridge crests. However, the dates exhibit a very large scatter. On one seamount just west of the crest of the East Pacific Rise, the radiometric dates range from 2.4 to 96 million years. Although a general trend is discernible from younger sediments at ridge crests to older sediments away from them, this is in fact to be expected, since the crest is the highest and most active part of the ridge; older sediments are likely to be buried beneath younger volcanic rocks. The basalt layer in the ocean crust suggests that magma flooding was once ocean-wide, but volcanism was subsequently restricted to an increasingly narrow zone centered on the ridge crests. Such magma floods were accompanied by progressive crustal subsidence in large sectors of the present oceans, beginning in the Jurassic.






Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:37:28 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig5.jpg)

Figure 5. A plot of rock age vs. distance from the crest of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (Reprinted with permission from Meyerhoff et al., 1996a, fig. 2.35. Copyright by Kluwer Academic Publishers.)

    The numerous finds in the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans of rocks far older than 200 million years, many of them continental in nature, provide strong evidence against the alleged youth of the underlying crust. In the equatorial segment of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge numerous shallow-water and continental rocks, with ages up to 3.74 billion years have been found. A study of St. Peter and Paul's Rocks at the crest of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge just north of the equator, turned up an 835-million-year rock associated with other rocks giving 350-, 450-, and 2000-million-year ages, whereas according to the seafloor-spreading model the rock should have been 35 million years.
    Rocks dredged from the Bald Mountain region just west of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge crest at 45°N were found to be between 1690 to 1550 million years old. 75% of the rock samples consisted of continental-type rocks, and the scientists involved commented that this was a 'remarkable phenomenon' -- so remarkable, in fact, that they decided to classify these rocks as 'glacial erratics' and to give them no further consideration. Another way of dealing with 'anomalous' rock finds is to dismiss them as ship ballast. However, the Bald Mountain locality has an estimated volume of 80 km³, so it is hardly likely to have been rafted out to sea on an iceberg or dumped by a ship! In another attempt to explain away anomalously old rocks and anomalously shallow or emergent crust in certain parts of the ridges, some plate tectonicists have put forward the contrived notion that 'nonspreading blocks' can be left behind during rifting, and that the spreading axis and related transform faults can jump from place to place.
    Strong support for seafloor spreading is said to be provided by marine magnetic anomalies -- approximately parallel stripes of alternating high and low magnetic intensity that characterize some 70% of the world's midocean ridges. According to the plate-tectonic hypothesis, as the fluid basalt welling up along the midocean ridges spreads horizontally and cools, it is magnetized by the earth's magnetic field. Bands of high intensity are believed to have formed during periods of normal magnetic polarity, and bands of low intensity during periods of reversed polarity. However, ocean drilling has seriously undermined this simplistic model.
    Correlations have been made between linear magnetic anomalies on either side of a ridge, in different parts of the oceans, and with radiometrically-dated magnetic events on land. The results have been used to produce maps showing how the age of the ocean floor increases steadily with increasing distance from the ridge axis. As indicated above, this simple picture can be sustained only by dismissing the possibility of older sediments beneath the basalt 'basement' and by ignoring numerous 'anomalously' old rock ages. The claimed correlations have been largely qualitative and subjective, and are therefore highly suspect. More detailed, quantitative analyses have shown that the alleged correlations are very poor. A more likely explanation of the magnetic stripes is that they are caused by fault-related bands of rock of different magnetic properties, and have nothing to do with seafloor spreading.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:38:15 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig6.jpg)

Figure 6. Two views of marine magnetic anomalies. Top: a textbook cartoon. (Reprinted with permission from McGeary & Plummer [2]. Copyright by The McGraw-Hill Companies.). Bottom: magnetic anomaly patterns of the North Atlantic (Reprinted with permission from Meyerhoff & Meyerhoff, 1972. Copyright by the American Geophysical Union.)

    A remarkable fact concerning oceanic magnetic anomalies is that they are approximately concentric with respect to Archean continental shields (i.e. continental nuclei more than 2.5 billion years old). This implies that instead of being a 'taped record' of seafloor spreading and geomagnetic field reversals during the past 200 million years, most oceanic magnetic anomalies are the sites of ancient fractures, which partly formed during the Proterozoic and have been rejuvenated since. The evidence also suggests that Archean continental nuclei have held approximately the same positions with respect to one another since their formation -- which is utterly at variance with continental drift.
    Benioff zones are distinct earthquake zones that begin at an ocean trench and slope landward and downward into the earth. In plate tectonics, these deep-rooted fault zones are interpreted as 'subduction zones' where plates descend into the mantle. They are generally depicted as 100-km-thick slabs descending into the earth either at a constant angle, or at a shallow angle near the earth's surface and gradually curving round to an angle of between 60° and 75°. Neither representation is correct. Benioff zones often consist of two separate sections: an upper zone with an average dip of 33° extending to a depth of 70-400 km, and a lower zone with an average dip of 60° extending to a depth of up to 700 km. The upper and lower segments are sometimes offset by 100-200 km, and in one case by 350 km. Furthermore, deep earthquakes are disconnected from shallow ones; very few intermediate earthquakes exist. Many studies have found transverse as well as vertical discontinuities and segmentation in Benioff zones. The evidence therefore does not favor the notion of a continuous, downgoing slab.






Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:38:59 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig7.jpg)

Figure 7. Cross-sections across the Peru-Chile trench (left) and Bonin-Honshu arc (right), showing earthquake centers. (Reprinted with permission from Benioff [10]. Copyright by the Geological Society of America.)

    Plate tectonicists insist that the volume of crust generated at midocean ridges is equaled by the volume subducted. But whereas 80,000 km of midocean ridges are supposedly producing new crust, only 30,500 km of trenches exist. Even if we add the 9000 km of 'collision zones', the figure is still only half that of the 'spreading centers'. With two minor exceptions, Benioff zones are absent from the margins of the Atlantic, Indian, Arctic, and Southern Oceans. Africa is allegedly being converged on by plates spreading from the east, south, and west, yet it exhibits no evidence whatsoever for the existence of subduction zones or newly forming mountains belts. Antarctica, too, is almost entirely surrounded by alleged 'spreading' ridges without any corresponding subduction zones, but fails to show any signs of being crushed. It has been suggested that Africa and Antarctica may remain stationary while the surrounding ridge system migrates away from them, but this would require the ridge marking the 'plate boundary' between Africa and Antarctica to move in opposite directions simultaneously!
    If up to 13,000 kilometers of lithosphere had really been subducted in circum-Pacific deep-sea trenches, vast amounts of oceanic sediments should have been scraped off the ocean floor and piled up against the landward margin of the trenches. However, sediments in the trenches are generally not present in the volumes required, nor do they display the expected degree of deformation. Scholl & Marlow, who support plate tectonics, admitted to being 'genuinely perplexed as to why evidence for subduction or offscraping of trench deposits is not glaringly apparent' [11]. Plate tectonicists have had to resort to the highly dubious notion that unconsolidated deep-ocean sediments can slide smoothly into a Benioff zone without leaving any significant trace. Subduction along Pacific trenches is also refuted by the fact that the Benioff zone often lies 80 to 150 km landward from the trench; by the evidence that Precambrian continental structures continue into the ocean floor; and by the evidence for submerged continental crust under the northwestern and southeastern Pacific, where there are now deep abyssal plains and trenches.
    An alternative view of Benioff zones is that they are very ancient contraction fractures produced by the cooling of the earth. The fact that the upper part of the Benioff zones dips at less than 45° and the lower part at more than 45° suggests that the lithosphere is under compression and the lower mantle under tension. Since a contracting sphere tends to fracture along great circles, this would account for the fact that both the circum-Pacific seismotectonic belt and the Alpine-Himalayan (Tethyan) belt* lie on approximate circles.


*The Alpine-Himalayan belt stretches from the Mediterranean to the Pacific, and is also visible in Central America. Some earth scientists believe it was once global in extent. Blavatsky says that the Himalayan belt does indeed encircle the globe, either under the water or above (The Secret Doctrine, 2:401fn).





Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:39:50 pm
Emergence and submergence

Vertical tectonics

The theosophical tradition teaches that the earth's crust is constantly rising or sinking, usually slowly but at times with cataclysmic intensity. There is a constant alternation of land and water: as one portion of the dry land is submerged, new land emerges elsewhere. Blavatsky writes:


Elevation and subsidence of continents is always in progress. The whole coast of South America has been raised up 10 to 15 feet and settled down again in an hour. Huxley has shown that the British islands have been four times depressed beneath the ocean and subsequently raised again and peopled. The Alps, Himalayas and Cordilleras were all the result of depositions drifted on to sea-bottoms and upheaved by Titanic forces to their present elevation. The Sahara was the basin of a Miocene sea. Within the last five or six thousand years the shores of Sweden, Denmark and Norway have risen from 200 to 600 feet; in Scotland there are raised beaches with outlying stacks and skerries surmounting the shore now eroded by the hungry wave. The North of Europe is still rising from the sea and South America presents the phenomenon of raised beaches over 1,000 miles in length, now at a height varying from 100 to 1,300 feet above the sea-level. On the other hand, the coast of Greenland is sinking fast, so much so that the Greenlander will not build by the shore. All these phenomena are certain. Why may not a gradual change have given place to a violent cataclysm in remote epochs? -- such cataclysms occurring on a minor scale even now (e.g., the case of Sunda island with 80,000 Malays*).[1]
*A reference to the massive eruption in 1883 of the volcano on the island of Krakatoa in the Sunda Strait. It created a tsunami, or giant sea wave, that swept away more than 30,000 people on the islands of Java and Sumatra.

Blavatsky also quotes the following from a contemporary scientist:


forces are unceasingly acting, and there is no reason why an elevating force once set in action in the centre of an ocean should cease to act until a continent is formed. They have acted and lifted out from the sea, in comparatively recent geological times, the loftiest mountains on earth. . . . Sea-beds have been elevated 1,000 fathoms and islands have risen up from the depths of 3,000 fathoms . . . [2]
The existence of former continental landmasses in the present oceans may be at odds with plate-tectonic dogma but, as shown below, it is supported by mounting evidence.
    Classical plate tectonics seeks to explain all geologic structures primarily in terms of simple horizontal movements of lithospheric plates -- their rifting, extension, collision, and subduction. But random plate interactions are unable to explain the periodic character of geological processes, i.e. the geotectonic cycle, which sometimes operates on a global scale. Nor can they explain the large-scale uplifts and subsidences that have characterized the evolution of the earth's crust, especially those occurring far from 'plate boundaries' such as in continental interiors, and vertical oscillatory motions involving vast regions. The presence of marine strata thousands of meters above sea level (e.g. near the summit of Mount Everest) and the great thicknesses of shallow-water sediment in some old basins indicate that vertical crustal movements of at least 9 km above sea level and 10-15 km below sea level have taken place.
    Major vertical movements have also occurred along continental margins. For example, the Atlantic continental margin of North America has subsided by up to 12 km since the Jurassic. In Barbados, Tertiary coals representing a shallow-water, tropical environment occur beneath deep-sea oozes, indicating that during the last 12 million years, the crust sank to over 4-5 km depth for the deposition of the ooze and was then raised again. A similar situation occurs in Indonesia, where deep-sea oozes occur above sea level, sandwiched between shallow-water Tertiary sediments.
    The primary mountain-building mechanism in plate tectonics is lateral compression caused by collisions -- of continents, island arcs, oceanic plateaus, seamounts, and ridges. In this model, subduction proceeds without mountain building until collision occurs, whereas in the noncollision model subduction alone is supposed to cause mountain building. As well as being mutually contradictory, both models are inadequate, as several supporters of plate tectonics have admitted. The noncollision model fails to explain how continuous subduction can give rise to discontinuous mountain building, while the collision model is challenged by occurrences of mountain building where no continental collision can be assumed, and it fails to explain contemporary mountain-building activity along such chains as the Andes and around much of the rest of the Pacific rim.
    Asia supposedly collided with Europe in the late Paleozoic, producing the Ural mountains, but abundant geological field data demonstrate that the Siberian and East European (Russian) platforms have formed a single continent since Precambrian times. One geological textbook admits that the plate-tectonic reconstruction of the formation of the Appalachian mountains in terms of three successive collisions of North America seems 'too implausible even for a science fiction plot'. C.D. Ollier states that fanciful plate-tectonic explanations ignore all the geomorphology and much of the known geological history of the Appalachians. He also says that of all the possible mechanisms that might account for the Alps, the collision of the African and European plates is the most naive [3].
    The Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau were supposedly uplifted by the collision of the Indian plate with the Asian plate. However, this fails to explain why the beds on either side of the supposed collision zone remain comparatively undisturbed and low-dipping, whereas the Himalayas have been uplifted, supposedly as a consequence, some 100 km away, along with the Kunlun mountains to the north of the Tibetan Plateau. River terraces in various parts of the Himalayas are almost perfectly horizontal and untilted, suggesting that the Himalayas were uplifted vertically, rather than as the result of horizontal compression.
    There is ample evidence that mantle heat flow and material transport can cause significant changes in crustal thickness, composition, and density, resulting in substantial uplifts and subsidences. This is emphasized in many of the alternative hypotheses to plate tectonics. Plate tectonicists, too, increasingly invoke mantle diapirism and related upwelling processes as a mechanism for vertical crustal movements.
    Plate tectonics predicts simple heat-flow patterns around the earth. There should be a broad band of high heat flow beneath the full length of the midocean rift system, and parallel bands of high and low heat flow along the Benioff zones. Intraplate regions are predicted to have low heat flow. The pattern actually observed is quite different. There are criss-crossing bands of high heat flow covering the entire surface of the earth. Intra-plate volcanism is usually attributed to 'mantle plumes' -- upwellings of hot material from deep in the mantle. The movement of plates over the plumes is said to give rise to hotspot trails (chains of volcanic islands and seamounts). Such trails should therefore show an age progression from one end to the other, but good age progressions are very rare, and a large majority show little or no age progression. H.C. Sheth has argued that the plume hypothesis is ill-founded, artificial, and invalid, and has led earth scientists up a blind alley [4].
    A major new hypothesis of geodynamics is surge tectonics, which rejects both seafloor spreading and continental drift [5]. Surge tectonics postulates that all the major features of the earth's surface, including rifts, foldbelts, metamorphic belts, and strike-slip zones, are underlain by shallow (less than 80 km) magma chambers and channels (known as 'surge channels'). Seismotomographic data suggest that surge channels form an interconnected worldwide network, which has been dubbed 'the earth's cardiovascular system'. Active surge channels are characterized by high heat flow and microearthquakes. Magma from the asthenosphere flows slowly through active channels at the rate of a few centimeters a year. This horizontal flow is demonstrated by two major surface features: linear, belt-parallel faults, fractures, and fissures; and the division of tectonic belts into fairly uniform segments. The same features characterize all lava flows and tunnels, and have also been observed on Mars, Venus, and several moons of the outer planets.
    Surge tectonics postulates that the main cause of geodynamics is lithosphere compression, generated by the cooling and contraction of the earth.* As compression increases during a geotectonic cycle, it causes the magma to move through a channel in pulsed surges and eventually to rupture it, so that the contents of the channel surge bilaterally upward and outward to initiate tectogenesis. The asthenosphere (in regions where it is present) alternately contracts during periods of tectonic activity and expands during periods of tectonic quiescence. The earth's rotation, combined with differential lag between the more rigid lithosphere above and the more fluid asthenosphere below, causes the fluid or semifluid materials to move predominantly eastward.


*Earth scientists hold widely divergent views on the changes in size that the earth has undergone since its formation. From a theosophical perspective, after its formation in an ethereal state some 2 billion years ago, the earth gradually physicalized and contracted to some extent. This downward arc of the earth's evolution came to an end a few million years ago, and the upward arc of reetherealization began. The earth may be expected to expand slightly as the forces of attraction begin to relax.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:40:22 pm
The continents

It is a striking fact that some nine tenths of all the sedimentary rocks composing the continents were laid down under the sea [6]. The continents have suffered repeated marine inundations, but because the seas were mostly shallow (less than 250 m), they are described as 'epicontinental'. Marine transgressions and regressions are usually attributed mainly to eustatic changes of sea level caused by alterations in the volume of midocean ridges. T.H. Van Andel points out that this explanation cannot account for the 100 or so briefer cycles of sea-level changes, especially since transgressions and regressions are not always simultaneous all over the globe. He proposes that large regions or whole continents must undergo slow vertical movements. He admits that such movements 'fit poorly into plate tectonics', and are therefore largely ignored [7].



(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig8.jpg)


Figure 8. Maximum degree of marine inundation for each Phanerozoic geological period for the former USSR and North America. The older the geological period, the greater the probability of the degree of inundation being underestimated due to the sediments having been eroded or deeply buried beneath younger sediments. (Reprinted with permission from Hallam [8]. Copyright by Nature.)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:40:53 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig9.jpg)

Figure 9. Sea-level changes for six continents. For each time interval, the sea-level elevations for the various continents differ widely, highlighting the importance of vertical tectonic movements on a regional and continental scale. (Reprinted with permission from Harrison et al. [9]. Copyright by the American Geophysical Union.)

    Van Andel asserts that 'plates' rise or fall by no more than a few hundred meters -- this being the maximum depth of most 'epicontinental' seas. However, this overlooks an elementary fact: huge thicknesses of sediments were often deposited during marine incursions, often requiring vertical crustal movements of many kilometers. Sediments accumulate in regions of subsidence, and their thickness is usually close to the degree of downwarping. In the unstable, mobile belts bordering stable continental platforms, many geosynclinal troughs and circular depressions accumulated sedimentary thicknesses of 10 to 14 km, and in some cases of 20 km. Although the sediments deposited on the platforms themselves are mostly less than 1.5 km thick, here too sedimentary basins with deposits 10 km or even 20 km thick are not unknown.
    Subsidence cannot be attributed solely to the weight of the accumulating sediments because the density of sedimentary rocks is much lower than that of the subcrustal material; for instance, the deposition of 1 km of marine sediment will cause only half a kilometer or so of subsidence. Moreover, sedimentary basins require not only continual depression of the base of the basin to accommodate more sediments, but also continuous uplift of adjacent land to provide a source for the sediments. In geosynclines, subsidence has commonly been followed by uplift and folding to produce mountain ranges, and this can obviously not be accounted for by changes in surface loading. The complex history of the oscillating uplift and subsidence of the crust appears to require deep-seated changes in lithospheric composition and density, and vertical and horizontal movements of mantle material.
    In regions where all the sediments were laid down in shallow water, subsidence must somehow have kept pace with sedimentation. In eugeosynclines, on the other hand, subsidence proceeded faster than sedimentation, resulting in a deep marine basin several kilometers deep. Examples of eugeosynclines prior to the uplift stage are the Sayans in the Early Paleozoic, the eastern slope of the Urals in the Early and Middle Paleozoic, the Alps in the Jurassic and Early Cretaceous, and the Sierra Nevada in the Triassic. Although plate tectonicists often claim that geosynclines are formed solely at plate margins at the boundaries between continents and oceans, there are many examples of geosynclines having formed in intracontinental settings.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:45:19 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig10.jpg)
Figure 10. Worldwide distribution of oceanic plateaus (black). (Reprinted with permission from Storetvedt,1997. Copyright by Fagbokforlaget and K.M. Storetvedt.)

    There are over 100 submarine plateaus and aseismic ridges scattered throughout the oceans, many of which were once above water. They make up about 10% of the ocean floor. Many appear to be composed of modified continental crust 20-40 km thick -- far thicker than 'normal' oceanic crust. They often have an upper 10-15 km crust with seismic velocities typical of granitic rocks in continental crust. They have remained obstacles to predrift continental fits, and have therefore been interpreted as extinct spreading ridges, anomalously thickened oceanic crust, or subsided continental fragments carried along by the 'migrating' seafloor. If seafloor spreading is rejected, they cease to be anomalous and can be interpreted as submerged, in-situ continental fragments that have not been completely 'oceanized'.
    Shallow-water deposits ranging in age from mid-Jurassic to Miocene, as well as igneous rocks showing evidence of subaerial weathering, were found in 149 of the first 493 boreholes drilled in the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific Oceans. These shallow-water deposits are now found at depths ranging from 1 to 7 km, demonstrating that many parts of the present ocean floor were once shallow seas, shallow marshes, or land areas [10]. From a study of 402 oceanic boreholes in which shallow-water or relatively shallow-water sediments were found, E.M. Ruditch concluded that there is no systematic correlation between the age of shallow-water accumulations and their distance from the axes of the midoceanic ridges, thereby disproving the seafloor-spreading model. Some areas of the oceans appear to have undergone continuous subsidence, whereas others experienced alternating episodes of subsidence and elevation. The Pacific Ocean appears to have formed mainly from the late Jurassic to the Miocene, the Atlantic Ocean from the Late Cretaceous to the end of the Eocene, and the Indian Ocean during the Paleocene and Eocene [11]. This corresponds closely to the theosophical teachings on the submergence of Lemuria in the Late Mesozoic and early Cenozoic, and the submergence of Atlantis in the first half of the Cenozoic [12].
    Geological, geophysical, and dredging data provide strong evidence for the presence of Precambrian and younger continental crust under the deep abyssal plains of the present northwest Pacific. Most of this region was either subaerially exposed or very shallow sea during the Paleozoic to early Mesozoic, and first became deep sea about the end of the Jurassic. Paleolands apparently existed on both sides of the Japanese islands, and they were submerged during Paleogene to Miocene times. There is also evidence of paleolands in the southwest Pacific around Australia and in the southeast Pacific during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic.
    Oceanographic and geological data suggest that a large part of the Indian Ocean, especially the eastern part, was land (called by some scientists 'Lemuria') from the Jurassic until the Miocene. The evidence includes seismic and pollen data and subaerial weathering which suggest that the Broken and Ninety East Ridges were part of an extensive, now sunken landmass; extensive drilling, seismic, magnetic, and gravity data pointing to the existence an Alpine-Himalayan foldbelt in the northwestern Indian Ocean, associated with a foundered continental basement; data that continental basement underlies the Scott, Exmouth, and Naturaliste plateaus west of Australia; and thick Triassic and Jurassic sedimentation on the western and northwestern shelves of the Australian continent with characteristics pointing to a western source.






Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:46:37 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig12.jpg)

Figure 11. Former land areas in the present Pacific and Indian Oceans. Only those areas for which substantial evidence already exists are shown. Their exact outlines and full extent are as yet unknown. G1 -- Seychelles area; G2 -- Great Oyashio Paleoland; G3 -- Obruchev Rise; G4 -- Lemuria; S1 -- area of Ontong-Java Plateau, Magellan Sea Mounts, and Mid-Pacific Mountains; S2 -- Northeast Pacific; S3 -- Southeast Pacific including Chatham Rise and Campbell Plateau; S4 -- Southwest Pacific; S5 -- area including South Tasman Rise; S6 -- East Tasman Rise and Lord Howe Rise; S7 -- Northeast Indian Ocean; S8 -- Northwest Indian Ocean. (Reprinted with permission from Dickins [13]. Copyright by J.M. Dickins.)

    In the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans, modified continental crust (mostly 10-20 km thick) underlies not only ridges and plateaus but most of the ocean floor; only in deep-water depressions is typical oceanic crust found. Since deep-sea drilling has shown that large areas of the North Atlantic were previously covered with shallow seas, it is possible that much of the North Atlantic was continental crust before its rapid subsidence. Lower Paleozoic continental rocks with trilobite fossils have been dredged from seamounts scattered over a large area northeast of the Azores, and the presence of continental cobbles suggests that the area concerned was a submerged continental zone. Bald Mountain, from which a variety of ancient continental material has been dredged, could certainly be a foundered continental fragment. In the equatorial Atlantic, continental and shallow-water rocks are ubiquitous.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:47:55 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig11.jpg)

Figure 12. Areas in the Atlantic Ocean for which past subsidence has been established. Subsided areas are shaded. (Reprinted with permission from Dillon [14]. Copyright by the AAPG, whose permission is required for further use.)

    Subaerial deposits have been found in many parts of the midocean ridge system, indicating that it was shallow or partially emergent in Cretaceous to Early Tertiary time. Blavatsky says that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge formed part of an Atlantic continent. She writes:


    Lemuria, which served as the cradle of the Third Root-Race, not only embraced a vast area in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, but extended in the shape of a horse-shoe past Madagascar, round 'South Africa' (then a mere fragment in process of formation), through the Atlantic up to Norway. The great English fresh water deposit called the Wealden -- which every geologist regards as the mouth of a former great river -- is the bed of the main stream which drained northern Lemuria in the Secondary Age. The former reality of this river is a fact of science -- will its votaries acknowledge the necessity of accepting the Secondary-age Northern Lemuria, which their data demand? Professor Berthold Seeman not only accepted the reality of such a mighty continent, but regarded Australia and Europe as formerly portions of one continent -- thus corroborating the whole 'horse-shoe' doctrine already enunciated. No more striking confirmation of our position could be given, than the fact that the ELEVATED RIDGE in the Atlantic basin, 9,000 feet in height, which runs for some two or three thousand miles southwards from a point near the British Islands, first slopes towards South America, then shifts almost at right angles to proceed in a SOUTH-EASTERLY line toward the African coast, whence it runs on southward to Tristan d'Acunha [da Cunha]. This ridge is a remnant of an Atlantic continent, and, could it be traced further, would establish the reality of a submarine horse-shoed junction with a former continent in the Indian Ocean.[15]
Since this was written (in 1888), ocean exploration has confirmed that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge does indeed continue around South Africa and into the Indian Ocean.
    Blavatsky reported that in the ocean depths around the Azores the ribs of a once massive piece of land had been discovered, and quoted the following from Scientific American: 'The inequalities, the mountains and valleys of its surface could never have been produced in accordance with any known laws from the deposition of sediment or by submarine elevation; but, on the contrary, must have been carved by agencies acting above the water-level.' She adds that at one time necks of land probably existed knitting Atlantis to South America somewhere above the mouth of the Amazon, to Africa near Cape Verde, and to Spain [16].
    After surveying the extensive evidence for large continental land areas in the present oceans in the distant past, J.M. Dickins, D.R. Choi and A.N. Yeates concluded:


We are surprised and concerned for the objectivity and honesty of science that such data can be overlooked or ignored. . . . There is a vast need for future Ocean Drilling Program initiatives to drill below the base of the basaltic ocean floor crust to confirm the real composition of what is currently designated oceanic crust.[17]




Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:48:44 pm
As stated in theosophical literature, 'hidden deep in the unfathomed ocean beds' there may be 'other, far older continents whose strata have never been geologically explored' [18].
    Some islands have apparently sunk as recently as late Pleistocene time. For instance, M. Ewing reported prehistoric beach sand in two deep-sea core samples brought up from depths of 3 and 5.5 km on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, over 1000 km from the coast. In one core there were two layers of sand which were dated, on the basis of sedimentation rates, at 20,000-100,000 years and 225,000-325,000 years [19]. R.W. Kolbe reported finds of numerous freshwater diatoms in several cores on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, over 900 km from the coast of Equatorial West Africa. He stated that one possible explanation is that the areas concerned were islands 10-12,000 years ago, and the diatoms were deposited in lake sediments which later sank beneath 3 km of seawater. He argued that this was far more plausible than the theory that turbidity currents had carried the diatoms 930 km along the sea bottom then upwards more than 1000 km to deposit them on top of a submarine hill [20]. The Atlantis seamount, located at 37°N on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, has a flat top at a depth of about 180 fathoms, covered with cobbles or current-rippled sand. About a ton of limestone cobbles was dredged from its summit, one of which gave a radiocarbon age of 12,000 +/- 900 years. According to B.C. Heezen and his colleagues, the limestone was probably lithified above water, and the seamount may therefore have been an island within the past 12,000 years [21].
    According to modern theosophy, Poseidonis -- Plato's 'Atlantis' -- was an island about the size of Ireland, situated in the Atlantic Ocean opposite the strait of Gibraltar, and sank in a major cataclysm in 9565 BC [22]. Former exploration geologist Christian O'Brien believes that Poseidonis was a large mid-Atlantic ridge island centred on the Azores [23]. By contouring the seabed, he found that the Azores were separated and surrounded by a net of submarine valleys that had all the hallmarks of having once been river valleys on the surface. He concluded that the island had originally measured 720 km across from east to west, and 480 km from north to south, with high mountain ranges rising over 3660 metres above sea level. Before or during its submergence, it tilted by about 0.4° with the result that the south coast sank about 3355 metres but the north coast only some 1830 metres. Only the mountain peaks remained above the waters, and now form the ten islands of the Azores. O'Brien thinks the island could have sunk within a period of a few years or even months, and points out that six areas of hot spring fields (associated with volcanic disturbances) are known in the mid-Atlantic ridge area, and four of them lie in the Kane-Atlantis area close to the Azores. Further surveys and core samples are required to test O'Brien's hypothesis.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:49:19 pm
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/obrien.jpg)

Figure 13. Christian O'Brien's reconstruction of Poseidonis.



Conclusion

When plate tectonics -- the reigning paradigm in the earth sciences -- was first elaborated in the 1960s, less than 0.0001% of the deep ocean had been explored and less than 20% of the land area had been mapped in meaningful detail. Even by the mid-1990s, only about 3 to 5% of the deep ocean basins had been explored in any kind of detail, and not much more than 25 to 30% of the land area could be said to be truly known. Scientific understanding of the earth's surface features is clearly still in its infancy, to say nothing of the earth's interior.
    V.V. Beloussov held that plate tectonics was a premature generalization of still very inadequate data on the structure of the ocean floor, and had proven to be far removed from geological reality. He wrote:


It is . . . quite understandable that attempts to employ this conception to explain concrete structural situations in a local rather than a global scale lead to increasingly complicated schemes in which it is suggested that local axes of spreading develop here and there, that they shift their position, die out, and reappear, that the rate of spreading alters repeatedly and often ceases altogether, and that lithospheric plates are broken up into an even greater number of secondary and tertiary plates. All these schemes are characterised by a complete absence of logic, and of patterns of any kind. The impression is given that certain rules of the game have been invented, and that the aim is to fit reality into these rules somehow or other. (Beloussov, 1980, p. 303)
    Plate tectonics certainly faces some overwhelming problems. Far from being a simple, elegant, all-embracing global theory, it is confronted with a multitude of observational anomalies, and has had to be patched up with a complex variety of ad-hoc modifications and auxiliary hypotheses. The existence of deep continental roots and the absence of a continuous, global asthenosphere to 'lubricate' plate motions, have rendered the classical model of plate movements untenable. There is no consensus on the thickness of the 'plates' and no certainty as to the forces responsible for their supposed movement. The hypotheses of large-scale continental drift, seafloor spreading and subduction, and the relative youth of the oceanic crust are contradicted by a considerable volume of data. Evidence for substantial vertical crustal movements and for significant amounts of submerged continental crust in the present-day oceans poses another major challenge to plate tectonics. Such evidence provides increasing confirmation of the periodic alternation of land and sea taught by theosophy.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:50:13 pm
References
Introduction

[1] Paul D. Lowman, in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, p. 3.
[2] D. McGeary & C.C. Plummer, Physical Geology: earth revealed, WCB, McGraw-Hill, 3rd ed, 1998, p. 97.
[3] V.A. Saull, 'Wanted: alternatives to plate tectonics', Geology, vol. 14, 1986, p. 536.

Plate tectonics -- a failed revolution
[1] N.I. Pavlenkova, in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 1, p. 78.
[2] S.P. Grand, Journal of Geophysical Research, vol. 92, 1987, pp. 14065-14090.
[3] E.C. Bullard et al., Royal Society of London Philosophical Transactions, Series A, vol. 258, 1965, pp. 41-51.
[4] H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Theos. Univ. Press, 1977 (1888), 2:791.
[5] Meyerhoff et al., 1996b, p. 3.
[6] C.J. Smiley, 'Paleofloras, faunas, and continental drift: some problem areas', in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, pp. 241-257.
[7] J.W. Gregory, 'The plan of the earth and its causes', The Geographical Journal, vol. 13, 1899, pp. 225-250.
[8] A. Spilhaus, 'Geo-art: plate tectonics and Platonic solids', American Geophysical Union Transactions, vol. 56, 1975, pp. 52-57.
[9] N.C. Smoot & A.A. Meyerhoff, 'Tectonic fabric of the Atlantic Ocean floor: speculation vs. reality', Journal of Petroleum Geology, vol. 18, 1995, pp. 207-222.
[10] H. Benioff, 'Orogenesis and deep crustal structure -- additional evidence from seismology', Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 65, 1954, pp. 385-400.
[11] D.W. Scholl & M.S. Marlow, in: Kahle, 1974, p. 268.

Emergence and submergence
[1] The Secret Doctrine, 2:787fn.
[2] Ibid., 2:783.
[3] C.D. Ollier, 'Mountains', in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 2, pp. 211-236.
[4] H.C. Sheth, 'Flood basalts and large igneous provinces from deep mantle plumes: fact, fiction, and fallacy', Tectonophysics, vol. 311, 1999, pp. 1-29.
[5] See Meyerhoff et al., 1996a.
[6] The Secret Doctrine, 2:252.
[7] T.H. Van Andel, New Views on an Old Planet: a history of global change (2nd ed.), Cambridge Univ. Press, 1994, p. 170.
[8] A. Hallam, 'Secular changes in marine inundation of USSR and North America through the Phanerozoic', Nature, vol. 269, 1977, pp. 769-772.
[9] C.G.A. Harrison et al., 'Continental hypsography', Tectonics, vol. 2, 1983, pp. 357-377.
[10] V.V. Orlenok, 'The evolution of ocean basins during Cenozoic time', Journal of Petroleum Geology, vol. 9, 1986, pp. 207-216.
[11] E.M. Ruditch, 'The world ocean without spreading', in: Barto-Kyriakidis, 1990, vol. 2, pp. 343-395.
[12] See Theosophy and the Seven Continents, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/continents.htm.
[13] J.M. Dickins, 'What is Pangaea?', in: A.F. Embry, B. Beauchamp & D.G. Glass, Pangea: Global environments and resources, Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists, Memoir 17, 1994, pp. 67-80.
[14] L.S. Dillon, 'Neovolcanism: a proposed replacement for the concepts of plate tectonics and continental drift', in: Kahle, 1974, pp. 167-239.
[15] The Secret Doctrine, 2:333.
[16] Ibid., 2:793.
[17] J.M. Dickins, D.R. Choi & A.N. Yeates, 'Past distribution of oceans and continents', in: Chatterjee & Hotton, 1992, pp. 193-199 (p. 198).
[18] A.T. Barker (comp.), The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett, Theos. Univ. Press, 2nd ed., 1926, p. 151; The Secret Doctrine, 2:332-3.
[19] M. Ewing, 'New discoveries on the mid-Atlantic ridge', National Geographic Magazine, vol. xcvi (Nov.), 1949, pp. 611-640; Corliss, 1990, p. 245.
[20] R.W. Kolbe, 'Fresh-water diatoms from Atlantic deep-sea sediments', Science, vol. 126, 1957, pp. 1053-1056; R.W. Kolbe, 'Turbidity currents and displaced fresh-water diatoms', Science, vol. 127, 1958, pp. 1504-1505; Corliss, 1989, pp. 32-33.
[21] B.C. Heezen, M. Ewing, D.B. Ericson & C.R. Bentley, 'Flat-topped Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor Seamounts' (Abstract), Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 65, 1954, p. 1261; Corliss, 1988, p. 88.
[22] The Mahatma Letters, pp. 151, 155.
[23] Christian & Barbara Joy O'Brien, The Shining Ones, Kemble, Cirencester: Dianthus Publishing, 2001, pp. 435-42; 'Survey of Atlantis', http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:57:51 pm
Select bibliography
Barto-Kyriakidis, A. (Ed.), 1990. Critical Aspects of the Plate Tectonics Theory. Athens: Theophrastus Publications. (Especially articles by: Ahmad, Beloussov, Cebull & Shurbet, Chekunov et al., Choi et al., Kiskyras, Luts, Ollier, Pavlenkova, Ruditch, Saxena & Gupta, Shapiro, Udintsev et al.)

Beloussov, V.V., 1980. Geotectonics. Moscow: Mir.

Chatterjee, S. & Hotton, N., III (eds.), 1992. New Concepts in Global Tectonics. Lubbock, TX: Texas Tech University Press. (Especially articles by: Anfiloff, Agocs et al., Beloussov, Cebull & Shurbet, Choi et al., Dickins et al., Grant, Kashfi, Lowman, Meyerhoff et al., Smiley.)

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1988. Carolina Bays, Mima Mounds, Submarine Canyons & Other Topographical Phenomena. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1989. Anomalies in Geology: physical, chemical, biological. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Corliss, W.R. (comp.), 1990. Neglected Geological Anomalies. Glen Arm, MD: Sourcebook Project.

Dickins, J.M. & Choi, D.R. (Eds.). New Concepts in Global Tectonics Newsletter.

Jeffreys, H., 1976. The Earth: its origin, history and physical constitution (6th ed.). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Kahle, C.F. (Ed.), 1974. Plate Tectonics -- Assessments and Reassessments (Memoir 23). Tulsa, OK: American Association of Petroleum Geologists. (Especially articles by Beloussov, Dillon, A.A. & H.A. Meyerhoff, Jeffreys, Khudoley, Maxwell, Smiley, Teichert.)

Meyerhoff, A.A. & Meyerhoff, H.A., 1974. Tests of plate tectonics. In: Kahle, 1974, pp. 43-145.

Meyerhoff, A.A., Taner, I., Morris, A.E.L., Agocs, W.B., Kaymen-Kaye, M., Bhat, M.I., Smoot, N.C. & Choi, D.R., 1996a. Surge Tectonics: a new hypothesis of global geodynamics (D. Meyerhoff Hull, Ed.). Dordrecht: Kluwer.

Meyerhoff, A.A., Boucot, A.J., Meyerhoff Hull, D. & Dickins, J.M., 1996b. Phanerozoic Faunal & Floral Realms of the Earth (Memoir 189). Boulder, CO: Geological Society of America.

Storetvedt, K.M., 1997. Our Evolving Planet: earth history in new perspective. Bergen, Norway: Alma Mater.





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December 2000



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http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sunken.htm#pl


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 28, 2008, 11:58:11 pm
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000581;p=2


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 09:44:45 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 02-12-2006 05:23 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Descent to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge:

http://www.webexpeditions.net/exp_home.php?startyear=2000

In the September/October issue of Ancient American magazine, there is a brief article entitled 'U. S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?' It says that on September 7, 2001, a team from Spain and the U. S. looking for oil have been "250 miles southwest of the Azores equipped with bathescape and two submersibles researching a 90-kilometer ledge with a central temple supported by three stands of nine pillars about 3 feet in diameter supporting a flat stone roof about 20 feet wide and 30 feet long. There are the remains of five circular canals and bridges, plus four rings of structures like the temple in between. It is roughly 2,800 feet deep in the Mid-Atlantic Trench and stable at this time." According to the researchers, when they tried to send photographic images from the site, their signals were jammed by a U. S. Naval exercise nearby, perhaps inadvertently.

...]


quote:
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That sounds very much like a temple of apollo 2,800 feet below the surface of the ocean, sitting intact, still standing.
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http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/732108/posts

[ 02-12-2006, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: Carolyn Silver ]
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 09:47:13 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 02-12-2006 05:30 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores. They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships. Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.


Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.


Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.


At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.


I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 09:50:21 pm
Talya

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Huge New Hydrothermal Vent System Found on Seafloor
Surprise discovery dubbed "Lost City"


(http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/images/chimney.jpg)

The top of an active chimney in the hydrothermal vent field Lost City taken from the submersible Alvin. The chimney rises 180 feet above the seafloor and is nearly 30 feet in diameter at its top. White carbonate minerals, which cap active portions of the chimneys, precipitate from warm vent fluids.

(http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/images/pinnacles.jpg)


Cone-shaped pinnacles rise from a central edifice in the Lost City hydrothermal field. Actively venting, white colored chimneys stand in sharp contrast to beige colored edifices that are now extinct. This image shows the top 20 feet of a structure that stands 160 feet above the seafloor.

(http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/images/flange.jpg)


This image shows a carbonate ledge or flange that extends outwardly from the trunk of a 160 foot chimney in the Lost City hydrothermal vent field. The flanges trap pools of 160 degree Fahrenheit fluids. The nutrient-rich fluids support dense microbial communities.

A new hydrothermal vent field, which scientists have dubbed "The Lost City," was discovered December 5th on an undersea mountain in the Atlantic Ocean. The unexpected discovery occurred at 30 degrees North on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during an oceanographic cruise aboard the research vessel Atlantis. A team of scientists from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, Duke University, the University of Washington and other institutions conducted the National Science Foundation (NSF)-supported expedition. "We thought that we had seen the entire spectrum of hydrothermal activity on the seafloor, but this major discovery reminds us that the ocean still has much to reveal, " says Margaret Leinen, NSF assistant director for geosciences.

"These structures, which tower 180 feet above the seafloor, are the largest hydrothermal chimneys of their kind ever observed," said Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington geologist and co-principal investigator on the cruise.

"If this vent field was on land, it would be a national park," added Duke University structural geologist Jeff Karson, a second co-principal investigator who, along with Kelly, dove in the submersible Alvin to the site.

Perhaps most surprising is that the venting structures are composed of carbonate minerals and silica, in contrast to most other mid-ocean ridge hot spring deposits which are formed by iron and sulfur-based minerals. The low-temperature hydrothermal fluids may have unusual chemistries because they emanate from mantle rocks.

Nothing like this submarine hydrothermal field has ever been previously observed, say the scientists. These events are unique, they believe, because they rest on one-million-year-old ocean crust formed tens of kilometers beneath the seafloor, and because of their incredible size. Dense macrofaunal communities such as clams, shrimps, mussels, and tube worms, which typify most other mid-ocean ridge hydrothermal environments, appear to be absent in this field.

The Lost City Field was discovered unexpectedly while Studying geological and hydrothermal processes that built an unusually tall, 12,000-foot-mountain at this site. In this area, deep mantle rocks called serpentinized peridotites, and rocks crystallized in subseafloor magma chambers, have been uplifted several miles from beneath the seafloor along large faults that expose them at the surface of the mountain.

"As so often happens, we were pursuing one set of questions concerning building of the mountain and we stumbled onto a very important new discovery," said Donna Blackman, a geophysicist from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and chief scientist of the expedition. She added that "the venting towers are very spectacular and, although they bring up a whole new set of questions, we will learn about the evolution of the mountain itself as we study the vents carefully in the future."

Observations using the submersible Alvin and deep-towed Vehicle Argo, operated by Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, show that the field hosts numerous active and inactive hydrothermal vents. The steep-sided, 180-foot-tall deposits are composed of multiple spires that reach 30 feet in width at their tops. They are commonly capped by white, feathery hydrothermal precipitates. The tops and sides of the massive edifices are awash in fluids that reach temperatures up to 160 degrees.

From the sides of the structures, abundant arrays of delicate, white flanges emerge. Similar to cave deposits, complex, intergrown stalagmites rise several meters above the flange roofs.

Underneath the flanges, trapped pools of warm fluid support dense mats of microbial communities that wave within the rising fluids. Downslope, hundreds of overlapping flanges form hydrothermal deposits reminiscent of hot spring deposits in Yellowstone National Park. During the Alvin dive, expedition leader Patrick Hickey collected rocks, fluids, and biological samples for shorebased analyses.

"By studying such environments, we may learn about ancient hydrothermal systems and the life that they support," suggested Kelley.

-NSF-


Notes to editors and reporters: For samples of photos, see: http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/00/pr0093.htm
For more photos and graphics, see http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/mar.

The three principal scientists may be contacted aboard ship until Sat. Dec.16:
Donna Blackman/dblackman@atlantis.whoi.edu
Debbie Kelley/dkelley@atlantis.whoi.edu
Jeff Karson/jkarson@atlantis.whoi.edu

As of Monday, Dec. 18, they may be reached at their home institutions through their press officers: University of Washington: Sandra Hines (206) 543-2580/shines@u.washington.edu
Scripps Institution of Oceanography: Cindy Clark (619) 534-1294/cclark@ucsd.edu
Duke University: Dennis Meredith (919) 681-8054/dennis@dukenews.duke.edu

http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/press/00/pr0093.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 09:59:11 pm
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(http://www.azores.com/dynassets/images/images/oldmap.jpg)

Important naval battles were fought in the waters of the Azores in that period during the attacks by corsairs and pirates. The following centuries were calmer, but in 1829 the Azores returned to the pages of history with the role played by Terceira in the struggle against the absolutist forces, and as the base for the liberal forces that invaded the mainland Portugal.



The archipelago developed during the 19th and 20th centuries with the introductions of new crops, the developing of industries and progress made with stock-breeding and fisheries. The last few years have witnessed a slow but progressive improvement in the economic and social well-being of the population. Most of this improvement is due to the inflow of capital donations from emigrants (almost all from North America) and the annual leasing of the Lajes Air Field to the United States.





The nine islands of the Azores and the European Union's remotest outpost are spread over some 600km of ocean (the Economic Free Zone is about 940km2) and are located roughly 1,500km or two hours' flying time from Lisbon and about 3,900km or five hours from the east coast of North America . Running along a southeast to northwest axis they lie on either side of the line of latitude that links Lisbon with New York and are between latitudes 36°-39° north and longitudes 250-310 west. The total population is approximately 243,000.

The islands separate conveniently into three groups: the Eastern Group of São Miguel and Santa Maria ; the Central Group of Terceira , Graciosa, São Jorge, Pico and Faial ; the Western Group of Flores and Corvo. The closest islands are Pico and Faial at just 6km apart.

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ORIGIN AND INVASIONS

Geological origin
The nine islands are formed from the upper sections of old volcanoes. In mid- Atlantic on the ocean bed tectonic plates are pulling apart; the gap between them is filled by molten volcanic material that rises from the earth's mantle and continuously forms new oceanic crust. This extrusion wells up and forms a ridge, and the sea floor spreads. The ridge is frequently offset by cross- cutting fractures caused by spreading on a curved surface. These mid-ocean ridges occur beneath all our major oceans, and sometimes rise above sea level and form islands such as the Galapagos and Easter Island .
The Azores lie on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, a fault line that runs for some 16,000km from beneath the northern icecap southwards, and turns east around the southern tip of Africa to meet with the Indian Ocean Ridge. Along its length lie also Iceland , the largest land made from oceanic crust, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha islands.
Beneath the Azores , three plates meet or rather diverge in a T-shaped triple junction. The North American, African and Eurasian plates meet at a point between the western and central group of islands between Flores and Faial . Flores and Corvo are on the American Plate. Graciosa,São Jorge, Terceira and São Miguel lie on the Eurasian Plate and FaiaI, Pico, Santa Maria and the Formigas Islets tend to move towards joining the African Plate. Thus the two western islands are distancing themselves from the rest of the archipelago by 2.5cm a year.
Southwest of Flores is the site of one of the deep water 'smoking' hydrothermal vents, 'Lucky Strike'.
The seismic tremors felt in the islands are mostly caused by magma flowing up the cracks left in the earth's crust as the plates separate. At times these tremors will occur with surprising frequency. Seismic activity in the Azores is measured on the McCawley scale which is twice the rating of the Richter scale used in North America . For example, six on a McCawley scale is rated as three on the Richter scale. Apart from Santa Maria , Flores and Corvo, the six remaining islands have all been subject to eruptions and earthquakes within historical times.
Santa Maria was the first island to rise above the sea some seven million years ago but changes in sea level and tectonic activity caused it to submerge again. Four million years ago the Formigas Islets and São Miguel rose above the sea and Santa Maria reappeared. It was during its long period of submergence that the island acquired its marine fossils. Sao Miguel is made from five volcanoes: the oldest is Pico da Vara, followed two million years ago by the Povoação caldera. Both are extinct, while the three other volcanoes are considered active but dormant. Água de Pau comprises an inner and outer caldera, the latter formed between 26,000 and 46,000 years ago. The inner encloses Lagoa do Fogo, and the caldera margin is about 15,000 years old. Sete Cidades dates from around 22,000 years ago, and the 500m-tall walls of the Furnas caldera date back 12,000 years. The remaining islands probably originated within the past two million years: Terceira two million years ago, Graciosa, São Jorge and Faial no more than one million years, and Pico just 300,000 years.
In 1811, about a mile off the coast of São Miguel opposite Ferreira, a new island appeared. One hundred metres tall and about 1.5krn long, it took about a month to create. The British frigate Sabrina was in the area and her captain, Captain Tillard, landed on the still steaming island, planted a Union Jack, named the island 'Sabrina' and claimed it as British territory! Unfortunately for his credibility, when the next surveyors arrived, there was no trace of the island; in just four months the sea had washed it away and all that remains now is a bank 40m below the sea. Most recently, in 1957, an eruption began just off the west coast of Faial that added a further 2km2 of land to that island. In this region much more frequent activity occurs under the ocean's surface on the seabed than is seen on the surface of the islands. Constantly, seamounts rise and fall, and new lava pressure ridges are formed. Currently there is a submarine eruption 10km west of Terceira on a small area known as the 'Serreta High'. It began in 1998, initially in three different areas, later spreading to six. Surface signs are plumes of smoke coming from floating lava debris as it cools. The basalt magma is rich in gases that are trapped inside, creating 'balloons' which float upwards towards the ocean's surface. As they rise the gases inside expand and cause the 'balloons' to explode. The debris floats on the surface for about 15 minutes and sinks when seawater enters as it cools. When great volumes of gas rise to the surface the sea becomes pale green, and it is very dangerous for boats, since they could easily sink. This surface evidence is not continuous and its absence reflects quieter periods of submarine activity. The earliest eruptions detected were at around 400m below sea-level, and the magma subsequently has risen to 180m.

http://www.azores.com/history/Background.asp
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:04:02 pm
Carolyn Silver

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Fig. 3. Physiographic reconstruction of Poseidia (called here Poseidonis), after N. Zhirov, as based on a diagram by B. Heezen and M. Tharp. Note the location of the major (M7.6) earthquake of 1968. (Recall too this reading fragment, "And Poseidia will be among the first portions of Atlantis to rise again. Expect it [to begin clearly to rise?] in sixty-eight and sixty-nine…."[958-3]). A repository for the records of the Atlantean civilization may be found in the area shown by blue shading. The Atlantean records repository will be found in a specific temple "where a portion of the temples may yet be discovered." (See reading 440-5). See text for an explanation of red dots A-C, sites of deep-water sampling of subaerial material representative of an emergent continent. (Subaerial refers to conditions and processes that exist or operate in the open air on and immediately adjacent to a land surface).


Direct Evidence of An Emergent Atlantis

Here is information on a former emergent continent in the Atlantic Ocean that was summarized by MacKenzie Keith10 for former shallow water or emergent sites sampled by the Deep Sea Drilling Project (DSDP). The sampling sites are currently underwater in the region of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (MAR). Locations for three of these sites (Keith, 2001, Table 1) are shown by large red dots on Figure 3, a relief map of the Azores region we have used in previous articles on THC’s website. The red dots are rather large because, while the sampling coordinates that are listed give degrees north latitude, they do not give degrees west longitude. It is understood, however, that the samples were taken in the vicinity of the MAR’s axial valley, clearly visible on Figure 3.

Here’s what was found at point A, at a depth of 12,802 ft.: highly vesicular basalt, weathered and oxidized basalt, and a major gap in the basal sedimentary section that indicates subaerial erosion. At site B, at a depth of 12,440 ft, basaltic pebbles and weathered and oxidized basalt were found. And at site C, in 12,313 ft of water, once again basaltic pebbles and weathered and oxidized basalt were found. All of the above findings are strong indicators of a formerly emerged MAR. And they suggest that this volcanic terrain has sunk a minimum of 12,300 ft since being exposed to the atmosphere. Note that Keith’s Table 1 lists six additional MAR sampling sites-to the south of those plotted on our Figure 3 and on down to the equator. Two of these sampling sites show ridge tops flattened by wave erosion, one revealed Tertiary-age shallow water sediment, and another revealed Cretaceous-age shallow water sediment. A final, rather startling finding consists of canyons and a trellis drainage system, quite possibly formed subaerially at a depth greater than 9800 ft. That MAR location is between 26º and 27ºN, to the south of the area covered in Figure 3.

The Azores Volcanic Plateau--A Hot Spot at a Triple Junction?


The mostly submerged Azores volcanic plateau is the meeting point of three lithospheric plates: the American plate to the west, the Eurasian plate to the northeast, and the African plate to the southeast. The boundary between the American, and the Eurasian and African plates, is the MAR. The boundary between the African and Eurasian plates is controversial. If, as some scientists think, sea floor spreading is occurring in the vicinity of the Azores Plateau, a recent age for the spreading is indicated.11

Other geophysicists think that a hot spot lies beneath the plateau and that the plateau is an expression of a persistent rising plume of hot mantle material. The hot spot itself is perhaps 60 to 120 miles in diameter and the center is usually designated to be at about 38.5º N and 28.0º W, or located roughly at the red dot labeled ‘C’ in Figure 3.

Lying southwest of, and perhaps just within, the surface expression of the hotspot is an area of “anomalously shallow depths (locally less than 400 m),” and “two volcanic regions bounded by prominent inward-facing scarps” that appear to be the two flanks of a [small] rifted volcanic plateau.” This location is shown on Figure 3.12 Also observed was a prominent ridge segment that is “highly tectonized with hundreds of small faults and fissures disrupting the sea floor…Sediment cover increases to the east, although clusters of small volcanic cones appear through the sediment. The summit of the ridge is characterized by three cones; these surround a depression filled with a lava lake.”

Such topography suggests the fingerprint of the massive volcanic upheaval said in reading 364-4 above to have occurred when


….[men on Atlantis] brought in the destructive forces as used for the peoples that were to be the rule, that combined with those natural resources of the gases, of the electrical forces, made in nature and natural form the first of the eruptions that awoke from the depth of the slow cooling Earth, and that portion [of Atlantis] now near what would be termed the Sargasso Sea first went into the depths.


Present-day geophysicists say the origin of the sea-floor topography in question was caused by the emplacement of large volumes of magma over old ocean crust (Footnote 12, Abstract T22C). But what, we ask, engendered that unusual supply? Could it not, perhaps, as in reading 877-26 have been generated by


….the turning of the etheric rays’ influence from the Sun – as used by the Sons of the Law of One – into the facet for the activities of same – [that] produced what we would call a volcanic upheaval; and the separating of the land into several islands – five in number ?


And what can we infer from those “anomalously shallow depths” mentioned above? Is Atlantis rising there? The geological explanation of the topography is that an excess of 30,000 cubic kilometers of magma were supplied to an otherwise normal mid-Atlantic ridge environment, between 5 and 10 million years ago, due to enhanced supply from “the Azores hotspot that is highly variable in time and space.” The resulting volcanic layer on top of the MAR was in places thicker, and thus relatively close to the ocean surface; and oh yes, the sea floor has not risen there at all “for millions of years.”

This scientific inference is hugely at variance with the readings’ explanation, as is the very idea of a formerly above-the-sea continent called Atlantis. Could the geologists’ sea-floor-magnetic-stripe, age-determination procedures, and their hypothesis of exclusively horizontal sea-floor motions (with no appreciable vertical motions) be in error? If not, Atlantis is merely a thought form with no physical reality.

Location of the Temple Repository of Records of the Atlantean Civilization

If N. Zhirov's Poseidonis (Poseidia of the Cayce readings)13 was at the location shown on Figure 3 before its submergence, when the records of the history of Atlantis were being written, we can further assume that the Atlantean repository for these records will be found in the area shown by shading on Figure 3. This Atlantean records repository will be found in a specific temple "where a portion of the [submerged Atlantean] temples may yet be discovered."

In attempting to speculate further on the location of this Atlantean temple, we find the following tantalizing information from p. 363 of Zhirov's book. It seems that in May 1968, Dr. R. Malise, the noted Swedish Atlantologist, wrote the following to Zhirov.

The Danish engineer, M. Frandsen, was looking at a depth-chart of the Azores and observed that at a depth of 600-700 fathoms (3600 - 4200 ft) above the surrounding sea-bottom there was an even plateau to the south of the islands.

This plateau is sheltered from the north by the present Azores with their summits 4,000-5,000 meters (13,120-16,400 ft) higher than it, and to the west by the main range [the MAR terrain]. To the southwest the plateau is limited by a somewhat lower mountain swell studded with high, flat-topped, now-submarine seamounts. The most prominent of these seamounts have been named by American oceanographers Atlantis, Plato, Cruiser, and Great Meteor. [See Figure 3].

As an experiment, Frandsen made a sketch with the measurements of the Atlantis Plain given by Plato, viz., 400 by 600 kilometers (250 by 375 miles) [Frandsen counted a stadius as 200 meters] and on the same scale as the chart. It fitted very well to the submarine plateau-land of the chart. By studying the depth-curves he found the declination of the plateau to be on an average 1:900; the plateau consisted accordingly of a real plain of a size about 2/3 of present-day Finland. On his sketch he drew in the contours of the mentioned canals and the circular ditch and likewise the squared lots of 'ten stadia each way.' According to Plato, the surrounding ditch had a length of ten thousand stadia (about 2,000 kilometers) and the number of squared lots was 60,000. By measuring the ditch on his sketch, Frandsen found it to be 2,040 kilometers and the number of lots to be 60,700, an acceptable difference. Having worked with irrigation in open and closed canals for thirty years he wanted to control the declination of the water level in the canals if adequate. He found the fall of the water to be 1:300 and1:600, which according to modern principles is acceptable, although barely for the last figure. The current in the canals was accordingly too slow to cause difficulties of navigation for the row-galleys of the time.

If this plain housed the last portion of Atlantis to sink beneath the sea, we might expect that it held the major temples as well. This area of the Atlantic seafloor looks like a very interesting one for oceanographers to explore. Multi-beam bathymetry surveys should be able to pick up signatures of canals without too much trouble.




CONCLUSION

The famous marine geologist, Francis P. Shepard, once wrote something to this effect. "If we could look down from the Moon at the Earth without her oceans, the most prominent relief features that one could see would be the steep continental slopes. They look suspiciously like giant fault scarps."

A variation to scientist Shepard’s observation might read, "The steep continental slopes look like giant fault scarps surrounding a sunken region of Earth's crust, a region called, in some foolish quarters, Atlantis."

Seriously though, it does seem that evidence for the existence of the Atlantis of the Cayce readings grows stronger every year. A few critics want to remind us that Atlantis did not visibly rise above the surface of the ocean, “as prophesied in reading 1602-3.” But the reading says only that

In 1998 we may find a great deal of the activities as have been wrought by the gradual changes that are coming about. ...This is a gradual, not a cataclysmic activity in the experience of the Earth in this period.

“This period” is linked in 1602-3 to the current, double-peaked solar cycle (number 23) that became “paramount” in 2000-2002. Cycle 23 is now in decline. Atlantis did not rise above the waves in 2000-2002, but consider that any evidence of a gradually rising Atlantis could easily still be concealed beneath the ocean’s waters.

To the foregoing I would add that geological processes like the elevation or sinking of large tracts of Earth’s crust occur slowly in “human time.” Thus, the slow pace of Earth changes that occur in geologic time must temper the expectations of people used to thinking in terms of human time.

An exception to this consideration is found, however, in accelerated Earth changes that would be caused by a sudden shift in Earth’s poles of rotation. Without such a pole shift, predicted in 3976-15 to occur any day now, the predicted rising of parts of Atlantis will forever be judged to have been only a figment of the imagination for those of us living today.





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William Hutton’s efforts in 1965-1968 to sample and analyze Bimini rocks by drilling, and by examining rock fragments from a deep sand-dredging operation at the Bimini inlet, are reviewed in his book, “Coming Earth Changes” (A.R.E. Press, 1996, pp. 165-180). Partial costs for that research were funded by the Edgar Cayce Foundation (ECF). Results of a 2002 study of rocks dredged from the Bimini lagoon can be found in the article entitled, "Bimini Revisited". That study was self-funded by William Hutton and Jonathan Eagle.

An attempt to sample rocks and projections from the submerged cliff off Bimini was made in 1998-2000, under ARE sponsorship, but the results of that effort indicated nothing but carbonate rock had been sampled (J. Hanley, personal communication, 5/2003). <back>


The secretary, Gladys Davis, noted in Report of Reading 364-3, item 2: “In 364-3 re Par. 5 reference to Ram entering India it might be pertinent to study East Indian lore. In 1910 a book entitled RAMA AND MOSES, The Aryan Cycle and The Mission of Israel, by Edouard Schure', Translated by F. Rothwell, B.A., was published by Wm. Rider & Son, Ltd., London, England. On page 27 a young priest named Ram is mentioned. Some of the chapter headings are: The Human Races and the Origins of Religion, The Mission of Rama, The Vedic Religion, etc.” <back>


Turkey in Europe is bounded on the north by Bulgaria, on the east by the Black Sea, and the Bosporus, on the south by the Sea of Marmara and Dardanelle’s, and on the west by the Aegean Sea and Greece. <back>


Udintsev, G. B., and Others, 1990, “Finds of continental rocks and sediments of anomalous age in the equatorial segment of the mid-Atlantic ridge,” Doklady Akademii Nauk, v. 312, no. 2, pp. 450-454. <back>


Bonatti, E., 1990, “Subcontinental mantle exposed in the Atlantic Ocean on St. Peter-Paul islets,” Nature, v. 345, pp. 800-802. While Bonatti concluded that the midocean ridge is underlain by material left behind as the continents were rifted apart, there is a serious flaw in his argument. As explained by by A. Meyerhoff and H. Meyerhoff (1974, "Ocean magnetic anomalies and their relations to continents," in Kahle, C., plate tectonics--Assessments and reassessments, Amer. Assoc. Petroleum Geol., Tulsa, OK p. 415), "If the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is underlain by continental-type mantle, how are the allegedly young magnetic anomalies formed at the crests of the midocean ridges with attendant seafloor spreading? Bonatti fails to explain this. It is difficult to conceive of a mobile crustal layer at the surface of the midocean ridge underlain by what Bonatti terms a "stagnant" mantle. By his own admission, the newly formed basalt has to pass through the "stagnant" continental mantle." [Meyerhoff and Meyerhoff were citing Bonatti’s 1971 paper in the Jour. Geophys. Research, v. 76, no.17, p. 3825-383, entitled “Ancient continental mantle beneath oceanic ridges.”]. Bonatti ignored the Meyerhoff criticisms in his 1990 Nature paper. <back>


Bonatti, E., and Others, 1994, “Transform migration and vertical tectonics at the Romanche fracture zone, equatorial Atlantic,” Jour. Geophys. Research, v. 99, pp. 21,779-21,802. <back>


Jardetzky, W., 1962, Jour. Geophys. Research, v. 67, no. 11, pp. 4461-4472. <back>

Duggen, S. and Others, 2003, “Deep roots of the Messinian salinity crisis,” Nature, v. 422, pp. 602-606. <back>

A massif (mas-sif') is a massive topographic and structural feature, especially in a mountain belt, commonly formed of rocks more rigid than those of its surroundings. These rocks may be protruding bodies of basement rocks, consolidated during earlier mountain building periods, or younger rocks of deeper origin. <back>

Keith, M., 2001, "Evidence for a Plate Tectonics Debate," Earth-Science Reviews, 55 pp. 235-336. <back>

Lourenco, N., and Others, 1998, “Morpho-tectonic analysis of the Azores Volcanic plateau from a new bathymetric compilation of the area,” Marine Geophysical Researches v. 20, pp. 141-156, plus map. <back>

Information in this paragraph comes from three abstracts in the Proceedings Volume for the December 1998 meeting of the American Geophysical Union (Abstracts T72F-07, T22C, and T12C-11). These abstracts describe the results of detailed sea-floor mapping programs southwest of the Azores hot spot, closer to the central Sargasso Sea. The studies cover an area where the normal V-shaped median valley of the MAR is interrupted by a messed-up area of the sea floor. <back>

Zhirov, N., 1970, “Atlantis,” Progress Publishers, Moscow. <back>

http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/Other/EquatorialAtlantis/SuggestiveAtlantisEvidence.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:04:26 pm
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Wow, blondie, who would have thought you had all of this in you? You annoying little researcher, you!! And to think, you're BLONDE, to boot!

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╔╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╗
☼The Pagan ☼
╚╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╪╝

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:08:47 pm
Carolyn Silver

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And don't you forget it, either!
 


quote:
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The Chesapeake Bay Bolide Impact: A New View of Coastal Plain Evolution


Bolide Impact

A spectacular geological event took place on the Atlantic margin of North America about 35 million years ago in the late part of the Eocene Epoch. Sea level was unusually high everywhere on Earth, and the ancient shoreline of the Virginia region was somewhere in the vicinity of where Richmond is today (fig. 1). Tropical rain forests covered the slopes of the Appalachians. To the east of a narrow coastal plain, a broad, lime (calcium carbonate)-covered continental shelf lay beneath the ocean. Suddenly, with an intense flash of light, that tranquil scene was transformed into a hellish cauldron of mass destruction. From the far reaches of space, a bolide (comet or asteroid), 3-5 kilometers in diameter, swooped through the Earth's atmosphere and blasted an enormous crater into the continental shelf. The crater is now approximately 200 km southeast of Washington, D.C., and is buried 300-500 meters beneath the southern part of Chesapeake Bay and the peninsulas of southeastern Virginia (fig. 1).


(http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/fs49-98/fig1.gif)

Figure 1. Location of bolide impact and of shoreline when bolide hit. The entire bolide event, from initial impact to the termination of breccia deposition, lasted only a few hours or days. The crater was then buried by additional sedimentary beds, which accumulated during the following 35 million years.

Bolide Crater
The Chesapeake Bay crater was recently identified by C. Wylie Poag (U.S. Geological Survey, USGS), who has assembled an international team to investigate its characteristics and consequences. Evidence of the crater comes from two sources: (1) cores drilled by the USGS and the Virginia State Water Control Board (fig. 2), and (2) marine seismic-reflection profiles collected by Texaco, Inc., the USGS, and the National Geographic Society.

(http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/fs49-98/fig2.gif)

Figure 2. Cross section showing main features of Chesapeake Bay impact crater and three coreholes that provided data on these features.

The cores sampled a sandy rubble bed, which contains hand-size to person-size chunks (clasts) of clay, limestone, and sand. The clasts change rapidly downcore in composition, size, color, orientation, and age. The clasts are fragments ripped from previously deposited beds that underlie southeastern Virginia. Small pieces of the deeply buried granitic basement rocks also are scattered throughout the rubble and contain shocked quartz and melted grains, which confirm an impact. The structure and geometry of the crater were determined by seismic profiling from ships in the bay. Seismic profiles are like two-dimensional cross sections of the subsurface beds. Analysis of 1,200 km of profiles shows that the crater is 85 km in diameter and 1.3 km deep; an excavation twice the size of Rhode Island and as deep as the Grand Canyon. It is three times larger than any other U.S. crater and is the sixth largest crater known on the planet. The rubble bed, which we now realize is an impact breccia, fills the crater and forms a thin halo around it, called an ejecta blanket.


Effects of the Bolide Impact
Discovery of the giant crater has completely revised our understanding of Atlantic Coastal Plain evolution. In particular, studies by Poag's project revealed several consequences of the ancient cataclysm that still affect citizens around the bay today: land subsidence, river diversion, disruption of coastal aquifers, ground instability, and location of Chesapeake Bay. These are discussed below.

Land Subsidence
Evidence of accelerated land subsidence is reflected in the geology and topography of the modern land surfaces around the crater. The breccia is 1.3 km thick and was deposited as a water-saturated, sandy, rubble-bearing slurry (like concrete before it hardens). The sediment layers surrounding the crater, on the other hand, were already partly consolidated, and so the mushy breccia compacted much more rapidly under its subsequent sediment load than the surrounding strata. The compaction differences produced a subsidence differential, causing the land surface over the breccia to remain lower than the land surface over sediments outside the crater.
Poag's team observed that the boundary between older surface rocks and younger surface rocks coincides with the position and orientation of the crater rim on all three peninsulas that cross the rim. The older beds have sagged over the subsiding breccia, and the younger rocks have been deposited in the resulting topographic depression. The topography also reflects the differential subsidence. The Suffolk Scarp and the Ames Ridge are elevated landforms (10-15 meters high) located at, and oriented parallel to, the crater rim.

Crater-related ground subsidence also may play a role in the high rate of relative sea-level rise documented for the Chesapeake Bay region. One of the locations of highest relative sea-level rise is at Hampton Roads (the lower part of the James River), located over the crater rim.


River Diversion
Even the courses of the modern rivers in the lower bay region point to the continued influence of differential subsidence over the crater. Most of the rivers, like the Rappahannock, flow southeastward to the Atlantic. In contrast, the York and James Rivers make sharp turns to the northeast near the outer rim of the crater.

Disrupted Coastal Aquifers
Another consequence of the bolide is that all ground-water aquifers were truncated and excavated by the impact. In place of those aquifers, there is now a single huge reservoir with a volume of 4,000 cubic kilometers. That's enough breccia to cover all of Virginia and Maryland with a layer 30 m thick. In this huge new reservoir, pore spaces are filled with briny water that is 1.5 times saltier than normal seawater. This water is too salty to drink or to use in industry. Geohydrologists have known of this salty water for decades, but only now are we beginning to grasp the true nature of its origin and distribution.
The presence of this hypersaline aquifer has some practical implications for ground-water management in the lower bay region. For example, we need to know how deeply buried the breccia is in order to avoid drilling into it inadvertently and con-taminating the overlying freshwater aquifers. Its presence also limits the availability of freshwater. On the Delmarva Peninsula, over the deepest part of the crater, only the aquifers above the breccia are available for freshwater. The crater investigation shows that we need to be especially conservative of ground-water use in that area.


Ground Instability Due To FaultingSeismic profiles across the crater show many faults that cut the sedimentary beds above the breccia and extend upward toward the bay floor (fig. 3). The resolution of our seismic profiles allows us to trace the faults to within 10 m of the bay floor. These faults are another result of the subsidence of the breccia. These faults are zones of crustal weakness and have the potential for continued slow movement, or sudden larger offsets if reactivated by earthquakes.

(http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/fs49-98/fig3.gif)

Figure 3. Location of faults (red lines) where they cross seismic profiles. The large circle shows the extent of the buried crater. The brick pattern shows the three main cities of the lower Chesapeake Bay. Red capital letters mark the locations of the Newport News, Windmill Point, Exmore, and Kiptopeke coreholes.

Some of the faults appear to completely breach the confining unit over the saltwater reservoir. They could allow the salty water to flow upward and contaminate the freshwater supply. Poag is mapping the location, orientation, and amount of offset of these compaction faults.


Location of Chesapeake Bay
Did the Chesapeake Bay bolide affect the location of Chesapeake Bay itself? We know that the bay is nowhere near 35 million years old. In fact, as late as 18,000 years ago, the bay region was dry land; the last great ice sheet was at its maximum over North America, and sea level was about 200 m lower than at present. This sea level exposed the area that now is the bay bottom and continental shelf. With sea level this low, the major east coast rivers had to cut narrow valleys across the region all the way to the shelf edge. About 10,000 years ago, however, the ice sheets began to melt rapidly, causing sea level to rise and flood the shelf and the coastal river valleys. The flooded valleys became the major modern estuaries, like Delaware Bay and Chesapeake Bay. The rivers of the Chesa-peake region converged at a location directly over the buried crater. In short, the impact crater created a long-lasting topographic depression, which helped determine the eventual location of Chesapeake Bay.

Metric Units Explained
1 kilometer (km) = 0.621 mile
1 meter (m) = 3.28 feet
4,000 cubic kilometers = 960 cubic miles


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For more information, please contact:
C. Wylie Poag
U.S. Geological Survey

Woods Hole Field Center
384 Woods Hole Road
Woods Hole, MA 02543-1598 Telephone: (508) 457-2258
Fax: (508) 457-2310
E-mail: wpoag@usgs.gov

Bolide Web Site: http://woodshole.er.usgs.gov/epubs/bolide/


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U.S. Department of the Interior
U.S. Geological Survey USGS Fact Sheet 049-98
May 1998
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This page is http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/fs49-98/
http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/fs49-98/
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:12:55 pm
Tom Hebert1
Member
Member # 2835

  posted 02-16-2006 04:08 AM                       
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Hi Carolyn,

I think you've done a great job with all of this research! Why can't people see the light? Must be a case of myopia.   :(
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Posts: 1321 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:13:45 pm
BigFatFurryTexan

Member
Member # 1520

Rate Member   posted 02-16-2006 10:47 AM                       
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Carolyn, very interesting research.

Here is a story i recently read about, but haven't had time to research. If anyone has anything that they can add, please do:

When Columbis was going to sail to the west to try to reach india, he only stocked a few weeks worth of provisions. His intention was to stay over on a large island that was located just beyond the Straits of Gibralter. Many maps of his day referenced this island, and referred to it as something along the lines of Antillia. He was fairly dismayed that he didn't find the island where he was supposed to, and wrote of it in his journal. He referenced it and mentioned that he was concerned about the Mission that was built there by the Catholic church (where there are "Godless" people, there are Catholics there to torture them into believing the same as them).

He contined on and landed in the Antilles (which he erroneously assumed was Antillia) as his first arrival in the New World.

This was only 500 years ago, and would hardly fall in the category of pre-history.

Along a simlar line, there are literally dozens reports of sea captains finding strange islands in areas there are well known and charted. Apparently a volcanic pillar lends support to the air filled volcanic rock on top. Eventually, enough pressure and weight builds and causes the whole column to collapse, causing the new island to sink. This has been reported as recently as the 70's.

Like I said, i don't know if any of it is true, and would like to know if anyone else can add anything. What i would say about Carolyns posts is that anyone who would discount the assertions made therein based on current scientific "knowledge" is basing their assertions on the scientific equivalent of voodoo. We are still banging on stones and looking for the answers in the pigs entrails.

--------------------
Think outside the flock

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Posts: 3735 | From: West Texas | Registered: May 2003   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:15:05 pm
Herr_Saltzman

Member
Member # 2738

  posted 02-16-2006 11:47 AM                   
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quote:
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An Evaluation of the Geological Evidence Presented By ''Gateway to Atlantis'' for Terminal Pleistocene Catastrophe
by Paul Heinrich
The book "Gateway to Atlantis", Collins (2000a), proposed that Atlantis originally lay in Hispanola, specifically Cuba with "other islands" associated with it being the "...island chains of Bahamas and Caribbean...". A significant part of his arguments involved Atlantis having been destroyed by a cataclysmic comet impact "...sometime around 8600-8500 BC...". Collins (2000a) argued in Chapters 21 and 22 that this cataclysmic comet impact ravaged Eastern Coast of the United States and possibly created two large craters on the ocean floor of the western North Atlantic. He claimed that this impact resulted in the destruction of Atlantis.

Being interested in both Holocene and Quaternary impact structures, i.e. Heinrich (2003a, 2003b), I decided that it would be interesting to evaluate this hypothesis. Because the task involved in completely researching and evaluating the "evidence" provided in Chapters 21 and 22 was quite large, and given the wildly subjective nature of interpreting oral history (from which innumerable, contradictory interpretations can be made) I focused only on the "hard" geologic evidence. The hard evidence that Collins (2000a) offered for his hypothesis for a terminal Pleistocene cosmic catastrophe consisted mainly of the "Carolina Bays", two alleged North Atlantic "deep Sea impacts"; a handful of pollen sites, the "muck" deposits in Alaska, and a Mississippi River glacial meltwater pulse reported by Emiliani et al. (1975).

Carolina Bays

Interpretations of the age and origin of the Carolina Bays played a very important role in the arguments of Collins (2000a) for a terminal Pleistocene comet impact along the East Coast of the United States. The importance of the Carolina Bays in the arguments of Collins (2000a) can be seen in the review of a lecture that Andrew Collins presented in the "Mysteries of the Past" lecture series in the 2000 "Questing Conference". A web page that was part of his web site in May 2004, Collins (2000b), stated:

"Yet the destruction of Atlantis, and its `other islands', identified as the island chains of the Bahamas and Caribbean, would appear to have begun some 500 years earlier. Sometime around 8600-8500 BC there came out of the north-eastern sky a brilliant object - a comet perhaps 100,000 times greater than the one which detonated above the tundra forests of Tunguska, Siberia, in June 1908. It passed low overhead the United States before disintegrating into millions of tiny fragments like some unimaginable millennial firework. The air shock-waves caused by the detonation and impact of these tiny pieces of the comet nucleus peppered the coastal plain, causing an estimated 500,000 elliptical craters, ranging in size from just a few hundred metres to 11 kilometres in length. Known as the Carolina Bays they extend from New Jersey down to Florida and can be found in six separate states - the greatest concentration being in the Carolinas. Each blast was like a mini nuclear explosion which caused spruce forests to be laid flat in great fan-like patterns. Two larger fragments of the comet struck the Atlantic Ocean north of Puerto Rico and east of Florida. The immense tsunami waves created by this event would have drowned the Bahamas and Caribbean, all but destroying its primitive culture and wiping out megafauna such as the giant sloth. Those who did survive reached the American mainland carrying with them a memory of this great cataclysm."

First, I found that both Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a) present a completely inaccurate depiction of the distribution of Carolina Bays as shown in Figure 1. Compilation of the distribution of Carolina Bays, as mapped by primary sources, demonstrated that the oval distribution of Carolina Bays shown by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a) are completely wrong. Instead of these oval distributions, the Carolina Bays lie within coast-wise belts within the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico coastal plains. They are found from southern New Jersey, a large part of Delaware, and easternmost Maryland southwest along the Atlantic coast into southern Georgia and north central Florida (Kaczorowski 1977, May and Warne 1999). Additional Carolina Bays, locally called "Grady Ponds", are found in southeast corners of Alabama and Mississippi within the Gulf of Mexico coastal plain (Otvos 1967, May and Warne 1999) (Figure 1). Neither Muck (1977) nor Collins (2000a) provide any documented evidence to support the inland occurrence of Carolina Bays as mapped in their figures.

In his figure, Collins (2000a) conflated the distribution of Carolina Bays along the coast together with a hypothesized concentration of meteorites inland of the coast, which was first interpreted by Nininger (1939) as coming from the disintegration of the meteorite that created the Carolina Bays. As shown in Figure 1 of Prouty (1952), the area inland of the Atlantic coastal plain illustrated by Collins (2000a) as containing Carolina Bays actually consists of Nininger's (1939) hypothetical area of "abundant meteorites", which lacks any Carolina Bays. Furthermore, more recent and detailed compilation of meteorite locations (Figure 2) demonstrated this hypothesized region of concentrated meteorites does not exist. Recent mapping of the distribution of meteorites showed that the distribution of meteorites within the Southeastern United States is random, without any apparent concentrations, contrary to what Nininger (1939) hypothesized. In addition, the meteorites found within the area of the hypothesized concentration of meteorites consist of a diverse mixture of stoney, stoney-iron, and iron meteorites that all differ in composition from each other to a degree that it is impossible for them to have come from the same parent body. Overall, there is a lack of any evidence for an inland concentration of meteorites associated with the Carolina Bays. As a result, the inland part of the oval mapped by Collins (2000a) for the distribution of Carolina Bays is a completely imaginary feature. Similarly, the distribution of Carolina Bays by Muck (1977), as shown in Figure 1, is completely wrong.

Similarly, neither Muck (1977) nor Collins (2000a) presented any hard evidence of Carolina Bays being found in the offshore areas that their figures indicate as containing Carolina Bays. There is simply no evidence that Carolina Bays occur as shown in their figures within the submerged surface of the continental shelves along the Atlantic Coast. The southeast edges of the distribution ellipses, which lie seaward of the continental shelf, are certainly imaginary. Thus, the offshore and inland distribution of Carolina Bays is based upon imagination, rather than any real evidence. Because of its imaginary nature, the oval distribution of Carolina Bays offers absolutely no evidence of an impact origin. Furthermore, the distribution of Carolina Bays along the Gulf of Mexico and northwestward into New Jersey, which Collins (2000a) conveniently ignored, remains unexplained by the impact hypothesis.

Another major problem for Collins (2000a) in using the Carolina Bays as evidence for a comet impact about 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC), is the age of these features as indicated by radiocarbon dating, Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) dating, and palynology. When the data from these techniques is considered as a whole, it is quite clear that the assignment of a terminal Pleistocene age to the Carolina Bays by Collins (2000a) and other catastrophists is soundly refuted. Although he discussed this data, Collins (2000a) grossly misinterpreted them and completely ignored how they contradict his ideas.

In case of radiocarbon dates, Collins (2000a), using radiocarbon dates found in Savage (1982), acknowledged that radiocarbon dates ranging between "…c. 70,000 years and 6,000 years BP…" and "…between 18,460 and 8,355 BP." had been obtained from samples taken from the sediments filling Carolina Bays. In citing these dates, neither author seemed to have grasped a fundamental principle of geology that in order for the sediments filling a specific Carolina Bay to have accumulated within it, the Carolina Bay must have existed prior to the deposition of that sediment. If a Carolina Bay contains a layer of sediment that accumulated within it around 18,500 radiocarbon years BP that is clear and irrefutable evidence that this Carolina Bay is at least 18,500 (radiocarbon) years old.

Figure 3 illustrates a collection of radiocarbon dates yielded by samples collected from the sediments filling various Carolina Bays. Figure 3 clearly shows that there exists numerous radiocarbon dates, largely ignored by Collins (2000a), that predate the proposed timing of his terminal Pleistocene catastrophe by tens of thousands of years. These dates clearly show that the Carolina Bays are older than the terminal Pleistocene catastrophe proposed by Collins (2000a) by tens of thousands of years. Regardless of the existence of younger radiocarbon dates, the numerous radiocarbon dates older than 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC) shown in Figure 3 are clear evidence that these landforms are older than proposed by Collins (2000a).

In interpreting the dates in Figure 3., a person needs to understand that the radiocarbon dates reported from Carolina Bays are minimum dates. They just represent periods of time during which conditions within and individual Carolina Bay was favorable for the preservation of organic matter. There were times when sediments accumulated within the Carolina Bays, but the organic matter was not preserved. There were times that the glacial sea level dropped to the point that many Carolina Bays dried out because of lowered ground water tables within coastal regions. During these times, older sediments within them was deflated by eolian processes and older organic matter destroyed by oxidization and weathering of the lake sediments. As a result, it is highly unlikely that organic matter dating to the exact origin of any Carolina Bay would have been preserved. Thus, the dates seen in Figure 3 are minimum dates and that the actual age of the Carolina Bays is, in fact, older than any of these dates indicate.

The Carolina Bays are so old that some samples of organic material from the sediments filling Carolina Bays have found to be older than the useful limits of radiocarbon dating. This is demonstrated by the several greater than dates illustrated in Figure 3. These radiocarbon dates, especially since they are minimum dates, clearly show that the Carolina Bays are tens of thousands of years older than 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC) as argued by Collins (2000a).

In Chapter 22, "End of the Ice Age", Collins (2000a) made vague complains about the use of radiocarbon dates calibrated to calendar years. His complaint includes the obligatory, for many alternative archaeologists, and unsubstantiated comment that some sort of dark "academic bias" is somehow at work in how radiocarbon dates are calibrated / interpreted in their transformation into calendar years.

Because these and many finite radiocarbon dates demonstrate that the age of sediments filling the Carolina Bays are more than 2,000 years older then the age proposed by Collins (2000a), it is impossible for problems with the calibration of radiocarbon dates to explain why these dates completely contradict his ideas. The difference between calendar dates and radiocarbon dates is simply not enough to make many of the radiocarbon dates shown in Figure 3, either younger or contemporaneous with the 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC) date for the formation of the Carolina Bays. Thus, the disputing of older radiocarbon dates on the basis of problems with radiocarbon calibration only demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of radiocarbon dating on the part of the people, who make such arguments.

Finally, Collins (2000a) failed to understand that the average, "10,500" years ago, of five radiocarbon dates given by Kaczorowski (1977) provided by Savage (1982) is a scientifically meaningless number. Individual dates from layers of sediment within a Carolina Bay specifically indicate the age of each of these layers and the oldest of these dates obviously provides only a minimum age of the Carolina Bay containing them. Averaging them together produces a date that is scientifically meaningless. Averaging these radiocarbon dates is like averaging the date when five randomly chosen states entered the United States of America (USA), and claiming that this average date is the date at which the USA was created. That Savage (1982) thought his average of radiocarbon had some sort of importance and Collins (2000a) accepted this average as having any scientific validity showed a fundamental ignorance of the part of all of them concerning how radiocarbon dates are interpreted. If anything, it appears to be a pseudo-scientific attempt by Savage (1982) to deliberately distort, in a favorable way, data that contradicted his interpretation of the origin of the Carolina Bays.
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:15:23 pm
In terms of Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) dating of the Carolina Bays, Ivester et al. (2002) wrote about a Carolina Bay called "Flamingo Bay":

" In the upper Coastal Plain, dates from Flamingo Bay indicate the rim was active at 108.7 ± 10.9 ka BP and again at 40.3 ± 4.0 ka BP. The nearby Bay-40 had an actively forming sand rim at 77.9 ± 7.6 ka BP. Near the confluence of the Wateree and Congaree Rivers in the middle Coastal Plain, an eolian sand sheet was dated to 74.3 ± 7.1 ka BP."

About Carolina Bays in general, Ivester et al. (2004a) wrote:

"Luminescence and radiocarbon dating of inland dunes and Carolina bay rims indicate activity during multiple phases over the past 100,000 years. Some bays have evolved through phases of activity and inactivity over tens of thousands of years, as evidenced both by multiple rims along a single bay and by multiple ages within single rims."

and

" Both dunes and bays were active during the Wisconsin glaciation, with ages tending to fall between 15,000 and 40,000 years BP, and near the isotope stage 5/stage 4 boundary 70,000 to 80,000 years BP."

These OSL dates and others shown in Figure 3, which lack any problems with calibration, as in case of radiocarbon dating, substantiate the radiocarbon dating. In fact, they show that as indicated by some greater than radiocarbon dates, Carolina Bays are even much older than 50,000 years. In fact, it appears that the Carolina Bays are as much as ten times the age proposed by Collins (2000a). As in case of the radiocarbon dates, multiple periods of reworking and modification of the sand rims have reset the luminescence "clocks". As a result, many of the OSL dates represent not the actual age of the Carolina Bays, but rather document multiple periods of eolian and lacustrine modification of the rim of these bays over the last 70,000 to over 100,000 years (Ivester et al. 2004a, 1004b). Regardless, the OSL dating of the sandy rims of Carolina Bays further refute the contention by Collins (2000a) that these landforms are only 10,500-10,600 years old. Because OSL dates do not need to be calibrated in order to convert OSL years to calendar years, it is impossible to use the calibration issue, which Collins (2000a) used to discard out-of-hand radiocarbon dates inconveniently contradicting his ideas, to discredit the above OSL dates.

The sequence of pollen spectra recovered from cores taken from various Carolina Bays have long refuted the terminal Pleistocene age proposed by Collins (2000a) and other catastrophists for these landforms. For example, years before Collins (2000a) was published, Frey (1953, 1955) and Whitehead (1964, 1981) documented the presence of full glacial pollen zones within the sediments filling Carolina Bays. These thick sediments containing pollen characteristic of full glacial conditions filling a Carolina Bay could only have accumulated within in them if they had existed prior to the catastrophe, which Collins (2000a) claimed ended the Pleistocene. Had the Carolina Bays been formed by a catastrophic event, which abruptly ended the Pleistocene and devastated local floras, they would have been created too late for sediments containing pollen characteristic of full glacial environments to have accumulated in them. The radiocarbon dates reported by Frey (1953, 1955) and Whitehead (1964, 1981) for the Carolina Bays, which they studied demonstrated that the sediments containing full glacial pollen. Thus the Carolina Bays filled by these sediments predates the date proposed by Collins (2000a).

After Collins (2000a) was published, Brook et al. (2001) published a detailed analysis of pollen recovered from cores from Big Bay within central South Carolina that on the basis of radiocarbon dates and palynology soundly refuted a terminal Pleistocene age for the Carolina Bays. In cores from Big Bay, Brook et al. (2001) found well-defined zones consisting of distinct pollen assemblages indicative of the accumulation of sediments from Holocene interglacial epoch, through the Wisconsinan glacial epoch, back into Oxygen Isotope Stage 5, 75,000 to 134,000 years BP. Thus, Big Bay existed as far back as 75,000 years BP. This period of time was tens of thousands of years prior to the date of Carolina Bay formation argued by Collins (2000a) and Collins (2000b). Their pollen interpretations are supported by radiocarbon dates of organic material, which are illustrated in Figure 3, derived from dating organic material from the cores that Brook et al. (2001) studied.

From the above discussion it is clear that there exists an abundance of evidence, which clearly demonstrates that Carolina Bays are far to old by tens of thousands of years to had been created about 8500 - 8600 BC (10,500 - 10,600 BP) as proposed by Collins (2000a). It is revealing that a significant amount of this data was published well before Collins (2000a). He was either unaware of this data or choose to dismiss them out of hand because it contradicted his theories about the formation of the Carolina Bays.

In addition, Brooks et al. (1996, 2001), Grant et al. (1998), and Ivester et al. (2002, 2003, 2004b) have clearly demonstrated that the shape and size of the Carolina Bays have been repeatedly modified at various periods in time by lacustrine and eolian processes during the last 100,000 to 120,000 years. In the case of Big Bay, a Carolina Bay in South Carolina, Ivester et al. (2003) found, using OSL dating, that the dozen or more concentric sand rims within Big Bay were not created simultaneously as argued by Collins (2000a) and other catastrophists. Instead Ivester et al. (2003) found that these sand rims became progressively younger towards the center of the bay. The four OSL dates reported from selected rims by Ivester et al. (2003), i.e. 35,660±2600; 25,210±1900; 11,160±900; and 2,150±300 years BP, demonstrate that Big Bay has shrunk over the last 36,000 years by 1.6 miles (1 km). These rims were not found to be composed impact ejecta, but rather "are composed of both shoreface and eolian deposits" (Ivester et al. 2004a). As a result of the OSL dating of the rims of numerous Carolina Bays, Ivester et al (2004b) concluded:

"The optical dating results indicate that present-day bay morphology is not the result of a single event, catastrophic formation, but rather they have evolved through multiple phases of activity and inactivity over tens of thousands of years. This is evidenced both by multiple rims of differing ages along the same bay, and by multiple ages within single rims."

Thus it is quite clear that the current elliptical shape of the Carolina Bays reflects not their original shape, but rather the result of tens of thousands of years of modification by lacustrine and eolian processes. As a result it is impossible, and quite unscientific, to use either their current elliptical shape or orientation to infer the original process, which created the Carolina Bays as practiced by and Collins (2000a) and others. As noted above this long history of repeated modification also proves that they are far too old to have been formed when Collins (2000a) and other catastrophists argued they formed.

Another major problem with the arguments made by Collins (2000b) and Collins (2000a) for an impact origin of the Carolina Bays is that research, i.e. May and Warne (1999), provided a "suitable terrestrial mechanism" by which these depressions were produced. The paper by May and Warne (1999) contradicted the claim by Collins (2000a) that "geologists now feel that the Carolina Bays might also be the result of aerial detonations produced by a "disintegrating comet nucleus".

Finally, Collins (2000a) speculated that the Carolina Bays might have created by "shock waves" resulting from the "aerial detonation" of a "disintegrating comet nucleus". However, Collins (2000a) failed to explain, in terms of a detailed a physical model, how a "disintegrating comet nucleus" can producing "shock waves" capable of forming craters the size of the Carolina Bays. Lacking a detailed physical model, a main argument for such an origin was a comparison, which he falsely claimed to be "favorable", between "funneled-shaped depression" a few meters deep found at the Tunguska impact site to non-funnel-shaped and shallow Carolina Bays that are 100s of meters to kilometers wide. It is quite possible that the funnel-shaped depressions at the Tunguska impact site consisted of thermokarst developed in local permafrost as the result of the local stripping of vegetation by the blast and resulting warming of the ground within the area of the blast.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:15:51 pm
Deep Sea Craters

In support of the impact origin of the Carolina Bays, Collins (2000a) repeatedly referred to two very large, alleged impact craters, which Muck (1977) illustrated as existing in the Atlantic Ocean. The locations and size of these craters are illustrated by Muck (1977) only with a crude sketch and by Collins (2000a) with a figured with an inconsistent scale. As a result, the location and size of these alleged craters shown in Figure 1 are approximate and limited by the lack of accuracy in both of the source illustrations. Despite this problem, it is quite clear that the craters proposed by Muck (1977) are both of enormous size, at least of 320 to 480 km (200 to 300 miles) in maximum length. Individually, these craters far exceed the size, as shown in Figure 1, the Chixulub Impact Crater, which is associated with the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary and the global extinction of dinosaurs and other organisms.

Concerning these two alleged impact craters, Collins (2000a) stated:

"..to my knowledge no geologist or astronomer has ever embraced Otto Muck's claim regarding the origins of the two deep elliptical holes in the West Atlantic Basin. This surprises me, for their shape and north-west orientation hint clearly at an association with the Carolina Bay event."

Looking at maps and publications available to geologists or astronomers prior to the publication of Collins (2000a), there should not exist any surprise that neither conventional geologist nor astronomer had embraced Muck's "two deep elliptical holes in the West Atlantic Basin" as impact craters. First, the formation of craters with lengths as much as 200 to 300 km (120 to 180 miles) would certainly have created well-defined magnetic and gravity anomalies as discussed by Pilkington and Grieve (1992). As illustrated by the free air gravity maps of the North Atlantic by Rabinowitz and Young (1990), which was published over ten years before Collins (2000a), and later maps, such anomalies are completely absent from the areas mapped as craters by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a). In fact, later maps show that the original magnetic striping created by sea-floor spreading is undisturbed in these areas.

Second, Tucholke (1986) published a map of depth to basement for the western North Atlantic Ocean 14 years before Collins (2000a). This map clearly showed the presence of well-defined fracture patterns of oceanic crust unmodified by impact processes within the location of the alleged impact craters of by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a). Sea floor mapping by Muller and Roest (1992) furthered confirmed the lack of any disturbance of primary sea-floor fracture patterns in the areas mapped as impact craters by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a). These fractures include a fracture large enough to have been mapped and formally named the "Nares Fracture Valley" by Tucholke (1986) that crosses one of the craters mapped by Collins (2000a) and Muck (1977). The undisturbed nature of local and regional sea floor fracture patterns completely disproves the existence of the two large craters proposed by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a).

Finally, the "Bathymetry of the North Atlantic Ocean", Tucholke et al. (1986), which was available more than 14 years before Collins (2000a), showed that the two deep elliptical holes, which Muck (1977) speculated as being impact craters are cartographic artifacts. One of the two deep elliptical holes illustrated by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a) is actually an irregular-shaped area in the North Atlantic called the "Nares Deep". This area lacks any distinct crater morphology. This deep elliptical hole of Muck (1977) is nothing more than a cartographic artifact created by the way in which mapmakers contoured the limited data available in 1977. Tucholke et al. (1986) also demonstrated that the second deep elliptical hole illustrated by Muck (1977) and Collins (2000a) is completely imaginary. It is nothing more than another cartographic artifact, which Muck (1977) identified as a crater, solely on its outline.

The creation of even one crater with a maximum diameter of 320 to 480 km (200 to 300 miles) would have blanketed the surrounding Atlantic Ocean over 800 km (490 miles) away from the rim with a thick layer of impact eject. However, none of numerous cores that have been taken from the western Atlantic Ocean have shown any evidence of this ejecta layer. Given the complete lack of any credible evidence, even including the two alleged "deep elliptical holes in the West Atlantic Basin" mapped by Muck (1977), it is not surprising that conventional geologists and astronomers ignored these alleged impact craters as proposed by Muck (1977). At this point, the available data can only be interpreted as indicating that both of these alleged impact craters existed only in the imagination of Muck (1977).

Near the end of Chapter 21, Collins (2000a) commented that the formation of these impact craters "would have made quite a mess of any low-lying island landmasses located the North Atlantic Ocean". What Collins (2000a) overlooked is that the creation of even one crater with a maximum diameter of 320 to 480 km (200 to 300 miles) on land would have resulted in global extinction level event on the scale experienced at the Cretaceous-Tertiary, even Permian-Triassic boundaries. On land, a hypothetical impactor with a similar composition to a stoney meteorite, would have been a 25 to 30 km (15 to 24 miles) size asteroid. This asteroid would have been larger in size than the 17.5 km (10.6 mile) in diameter asteroid that created the Chixulub Impact Crater. The formation of a similar size crater in the deep sea would have required a larger asteroid or comet.

The impact of even a single 25 km diameter asteroid or equivalent size comet would not have simply "made quite a mess" of low-lying islands such as Cuba and Hispanola. Such an impact, and more so in case of two of them, would have obliterated anything and anyone on these islands and adjacent parts of North and South America. As determined from Marcus et al. (2004) and Collins et al. (2004), the formation of the closest crater would have created thermal radiation capable of igniting clothing; newspaper, wooden buildings, and grass and causing third degree burns over the body of people standing in the open in Cuba and Hispanola. In addition, the same impact would have subjected within both Cuba and Hispanola to an earthquake of 10.7 magnitude on the Richter Scale; an air blast with a velocity of 335 to 552 meters per second (750 to 1235 miles per hour); and a blanket of ejecta ranging in thickness from 4 to 15 meters (13 to 50 ft) thick. Just about every building, bridge, or structure would have been leveled long before 200 m high (660 ft) tsunamis obliterated everything on the surface of these islands and along a significant portion of the shorelines of the northern Atlantic Ocean. Despite massive destruction that the impacts proposed by Muck (1977) would have caused, evidence of such massive destruction having occurred within Cuba, Hispanola, and along the shores of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico during Late Pleistocene is completely absent. It is simply impossible for the cataclysmic asteroid or comet impacts needed to have created the impact craters illustrated by Muck (1977) have occurred and not left a shred of recognizable evidence of an extinction level event greater than the one that wiped out the dinosaurs.

In fairness, Collins (2000c) did recognize that the impacts proposed by Muck (1977) would have resulted in catastrophic tsunamis when he stated:

The latest theories regarding their formation feature the fragmentation of a comet into literally millions of pieces which impacted a wide area, including a large part of the Atlantic Ocean off the United States, sometime between 8500 and 9000 BC. Such an event would have caused super-tsunami waves that would have engulfed the low-lying regions of the Bahamas and Caribbean killing everything in their path."

However, neither Collins (2000a) nor Collins (2000c) provided a single shred of hard physical evidence of this "super-tsunamis", which would have been far worse then the tsunamis generated by the Chixulub Impact, having "engulfed" the low-lying regions of the eastern seaboard of North America, the Bahamas, and Caribbean. It is physically impossible for the "super-tsunamis" to have occurred as proposed and not have left behind a single shred of recognizable evidence. Collins (2000a) is both deluding himself and fooling his readers when he claimed these tsunamis would have "receded to leave the landscape hardly altered". For example, in cores of coastal lakes from which pollen records extending into the Pleistocene have been recovered, should be evidence of either of the deposits or environmental devastation which such "super-tsunamis" would have left behind as happened with the early Holocene Storrega tsunamis. In addition, such "super-tsunamis" would have reshaped the sandy coastal plains to the point of largely obliterating older, pre-existing landforms such as the Carolina Bays, beach ridges, and fluvial terraces. In the above quote, Collins (2000c) proposed "super-tsunamis" that were powerful enough to devastate and destroy an entire civilization, but by some unexplained magic failed to leave behind any physical evidence of having occurred.

Finally, while discussing these alleged craters, Collins (2000a) speculated that Barringer (Meteor) Crater in Coconino county, Arizona as either related to his hypothetical impact event that created the Carolina Bays or having been formed about 20,000 years ago. Sutton (1984, 1985), published 15 to 16 years before Collins (2000a), had already soundly refuted the inference by Collins (2000a) that Native Americans could have witnessed the meteorite impact that created Barringer (Meteor) Crater. Sutton (1984, 1985) dated Barringer Crater using Thermoluminescence (TL) dating techniques on impact breccia superheated at the moment of impact as having been formed between 47,000 to 52,800 years ago. Thus Barringer Crater was neither witnessed by Native Americans nor was associated with any terminal Pleistocene impact event. Given that TL dating does not suffer the problems of radiocarbon dating and does not need to be calibrated, the calibration of such dates is a nonexistent issue.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:16:17 pm
Hibben's Glacial Muck of Alaska

At the end of Chapter 21, "Cosmic Pinball", Collins (2000a) quotes from "Lost American", Hibben (1946), about the "glacial muck" of Alaska to support and dramatize his interpretation of the catastrophic origin of the Carolina Bays. The quote, like much of Hibben (1946), talked dramatically of torn and twisted remains of bison, mammoths, other animals, and trees being piled together in the "glacial muck" of Alaska and of: "The evidences of violence there are as obvious as in the horror camps of Germany."

The so-called glacial "muck" of Alaska is a favorite, to the point of being cliché, piece of evidence for terminal Pleistocene catastrophism, including Deloria (1997), Hapgood (1970), Velikovsky (1955), and Allan and Delair (1995). In addition to Hibben (1946), many catastrophists often cite Rainey (1940) and Hibben (1942), which contain similar descriptions of "glacial muck" within Alaska as evidence of their catastrophic scenarios. For example Allan and Delair (1995) stated:

"In Alaska, for example, thick frozen deposits of volcanic ash, silts, sands, boulders, lenticles and ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless relics of late Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled together in no discernible order. This amazing deposit, usually referred to as 'muck', has been described by Dr Rainey as containing: '... enormous numbers of frozen bones of extinct animals, such as mammoth, mastodon, super bison and horse, as well as brush, stumps, moss and freshwater molluscs (281)'."

In the half century between when Hibben (1946) was published and the publication of Collins (2000a) dozens of papers and monographs have been published about the Quaternary deposits, which Hibben (1942, 1946) and Rainey (1940) designated as "muck". When examining this research, i.e. Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989); Westgate et al. (1990); and Guthrie (1990), a person finds that the so-called "glacial muck" as described by Hibben (1942, 1946) and Rainey (1940) exists only in their and various catastrophists' imaginations. These Quaternary deposits simply do not consist of "thick frozen deposits of volcanic ash, silts, sands, boulders, lenticles and ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless relics of late Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled together in no discernible order" as described by Collins (2000c) and Velikovsky (1955) and other catastrophists.

Instead, as described in numerous publications, i.e. Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989), Westgate et al. (1990), and Guthrie (1990), which published and distributed to libraries long before Collins (2000a), a person finds an ordered, layer-cake sequence of strata. Figures 20 and 29 of Pewe (1975), Figure 4 of Pewe et al. (1997), and the measured section of Westgate et al. (1990) show that the so-called "glacial muck" of the Alaska area consists of seven well-defined geologic layers. These layers in total are only 10 to 20 m (33 to 66 ft) thick at the thickest. Layers such as the Ready Bullion Formation, Engineer Loess, Goldstream Formation, Gold Hill Loess, and the Fairbanks Loess, consist either of silt that is either wind-blown silt called "loess" or colluvium moved down-hill by slopewash or solifluction. Other layers, i.e. the Dawson Cut and Eva Formations, contain buried, in situ forests that are rooted in "fossil" soils. The basal strata consist of stream gravels, i.e. the Tanana Formation, Fox Gravel, and Cripple Gravel. The contacts between these geologic layers are persistent, observable contacts that are often associated with forest beds, ice-wedge casts, and buried soils that demonstrate that periods of thousands to tens of thousands years occurred between the accumulation of individual layers. The loesses also contain numerous buried soils, paleosols, which formed during long periods of time during which no accumulation of loess occurred. Thus, the strata comprising the "glacial muck" of Collins (2000a) formed not during a single catastrophic event, but accumulated episodically over a period of two to three million years. The youngest of the loess layers actually postdates his proposed terminal Pleistocene catastrophe being only 7,000 to 8,000 years old (Pewe 1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989, Pewe et al. 1997, Westgate et al. 1990, Muhs et al. 2003).

In addition, Rainey (1940) and Hibbens (1942, 1946) were wrong in their descriptions of plant and animal fossils occurring randomly together throughout the strata they called "glacial muck". For example, the presence of subfossil trees within these deposits is typically limited to one of three in situ buried forests. As shown in Pewe (1975a:figure 29), these buried forests occur at the top of the Fox Gravel, the Gold Hill Loess, and the Goldstream Loess. Each of these forest beds consist of the in situ stumps of mature trees rooted in buried soils developed in the top of each of these units (Pewe 1975a, 1975b, 1989). The youngest forest bed dates to the last interglacial, about 125,000 years ago as documented by Pewe et al. (1997). It and the strata beneath it are far too old to be related to any terminal Pleistocene catastrophe. The oldest forest bed, the Dawson Cut Forest Bed, has been found to be almost 2 million years old by Westgate et al. (2003). Therefore both forest beds are far too old to be related to the terminal Pleistocene catastrophe proposed by Collins (2000a). These trees consist of the in situ trunk and fallen trunks of forests buried in place by colluvial deposits or solifluction lobes. Finally, a careful reading of Pewe (1975a) and Guthrie (1990) would demonstrate that the claims by Rainey (1940) and Hibben (1942, 1946) about the abundance of fossil bones and how they are distributed are grossly exaggerated and quite inaccurate.

The so-called "muck”, which Rainey (1940) and Hibben (1942, 1946) described consists largely of the deposits of thermokarst, landslides, and debris and mudflows created by the melting of the permafrost and the slumping of oversteepened slopes. These deposits consist of relatively thin, discontinuous surficial layers blanketing the well-stratified loess, slopewash, alluvial, and colluvial deposits that actually contain the mummified remains of mammoths and other mammals (Pewe 1975a). Similar beds are sometimes found within the Quaternary units, but they are far too thin, discontinuous, scattered, and rare to have been created by a single event. These beds represent the deposits of prehistoric debris and mudflows and the periodic development of thermokarst during the accumulation of these deposits.

The numerous papers and books published about the Quaternary deposits of Alaska in 54 years between when Hibben (1946) and Collins (2000a) demonstrate that the dramatic descriptions a person can read in Hibbens (1946) are unsupported by any hard evidence. The research discussed above has demonstrated that these descriptions consisted entirely of the "geopoetry" of the type seen in disaster movies such as "Volcano", "10.5" and the "Day After Tomorrow". Although the comments of Hibben (1946), which are quoted by Collins (2000a) are as entertaining as seeing lava flow down Whilshire Boulevard and New York being fast frozen by catastrophic climate change, they have proved to be as scientifically bankrupt as the events depicted in such movies.

Even in the few years since Collins (2000a) was published, papers and books, demonstrating the scientifically bankrupt nature of both the physical descriptions and interpretations of Hibben (1942, 1946) concerning Alaskan sediments, which alternative archaeologists and catastrophists typically lump together as "muck", continued to be published. The most notable of these is a collections of papers, i.e. Berger (2003), Matheus et al. (2003), Matthews et al. (2003), Rutter et al. (2003), Westgate et al. (2003), which appeared in the July 2003 issue, vol. 60, no. 1, of Quaternary Research and Muhs et al. (2003). These papers further document that these deposits are the result, not of a single catastrophic event, but were rather created by the interaction of the gradual and periodic accumulation of loess, periodic development of soils, and their periodic modification by colluviation and solifluction. These papers contain numerous radiocarbon, Optically Stimulated Luminescence, and other dates, demonstrating that the so-called "Alaskan muck" periodically accumulated over a period of hundreds of thousands of years to over three million years in places.

Finally, Collins' (2000a) comments about "Alaskan muck" completely lack any extended discussion of the papers, i.e. Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989), Pewe et al. (1997), Westgate et al. (1990), and Guthrie (1990), published about the loess and other Quaternary deposits, which Hibbens (1942, 1946) included in his "muck". Despite these papers being readily available in the scientific literature and the significant evidence they contain regarding the origin of so-called "Alaskan muck, and having been published years before Collins (2000a), he made no mention of them. At the least, Collins (2000a) failed miserably in his research by completely overlooking over a half century of research, which have totally refuted the catastrophic interpretations made by Hibben (1942, 1946).



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:16:51 pm
Mississippi Meltwater Events

In Chapter 22, "End of the Ice Age", Collins (2000a) argued that research by Emiliani et al. (1975) and Emiliani (1976) provided evidence that linked the "termination of the glacial age and inundation of low-lying regions of the Bahamas and Caribbean, with, quite literally, the drowning of Atlantis". Collins (2000a) noted that Emiliani et al. (1975) identified a period of meltwater outpouring down the Mississippi River, which they interpreted to be a period of rapid ice melting and sea-level rise dated at 11,600 radiocarbon years BP. Despite being dated at 11,600 radiocarbon years BP by Emiliani et al. (1975), Collins (2000a) argued that this period of vastly increased flow of meltwater down the Mississippi River corresponded to his proposed catastrophic impact and planetary catastrophe at 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC). They argued that this period of "progressive outpouring of ice meltwater" into the Gulf of Mexico represented a period of time 200 to 300 years after his proposed catastrophic impact during which the "sudden emergence of a warmer climate" caused ice sheets to melt, and sea levels to abruptly rise. He argued that it was these rising sea levels that abruptly drown low-lying coastal areas and "whole island land masses" in the Bahamas and Caribbean.

As shown in Figure 4, research conducted in the last 29 years, since Emiliani et al. (1975) was published, has rendered all of Collins (2000a) arguments moot. Unfortunately, this later research, as summarized by Aharon (2003), has shown that the DeSoto Canyon core studied by Emiliani et al. (1975) accumulated too slowly and was too bioturbated and too far from the Mississippi River to preserved an accurate record of Mississippi River meltwater pulses and spikes. The extremely poor preservation of the paleoenvironmental record by the sediments of this core resulted in Emiliani et al. (1975) grossly misinterpreting the number, chronology, and significance of meltwater pulses and events that occurred along the Mississippi River. As a result, the arguments of Collins (2000a) are based on interpretations of Emiliani et al. (1975), which has been fatally distorted by the extremely poor recording and preservation of the meltwater signature within the core from which the data came.

As shown in Figure 4, it is now known that the first of five significant outpourings, pulses, of glacial meltwater came down the Mississippi River between 14,000 and 16,000 radiocarbon years BP. During this period, it is quite clear that this was the first and only time that the meltwater came directly from the front of the Laurentide Ice Sheet. This is indicated by the presence of a high proportion of fine quartz found in sediments, which accumulated during this interval (Brown and Kennett 1998, Aharon 2003). The meltwater was derived from the melting of the Laurentide Ice Sheet as it retreated as the result of climatic warming. Because this meltwater pulse and associated retreat of the Laurentide Ice Sheet and climatic warming occurred 3,400 to 5,400 years later before Collins (2000a) claimed that his catastrophic impact occurred, it is obviously impossible that this hypothetical catastrophe was responsible in any way for either starting or causing them.

After a pause in the gulfward flood of meltwater down the Mississippi, three shorter pulses of meltward, separated by shorter pauses in meltwater flow occurred down the Mississippi River. 4, These meltwater pulses occurred at 13,200 to 13,600; 12,500 to 12,900; and 11,200 to 11,250 radiocarbon years BP (Figure 4) (Aharon 2003). Unlike the previous meltwater pulse, the sediments being brought down the Mississippi River and deposited in the Gulf of Mexico indicate that these meltwater pulses are not coming directly from the ice sheet. Rather, the sediments show that the water is coming from large proglacial lakes, which have developed in front of the Laurentide Ice Sheet as it has retreated northward (Brown and Kennett 1998). Because of these proglacial lakes, the pauses in meltwater flow down the Mississippi River are not related to climatic change. Rather they are the result of switching between drainages of the St. Lawrence, Hudson, and Mississippi rivers as different proglacial lake outlets were blocked and unblocked by shifting ice lobes, erosion, and isostatic uplift (Licciardi et al. 1999). After about 14,000 radiocarbon years BP because of the proglacial lakes and their shifting outlets, the rate at which the ice sheet is melting ceases to be the main factor in determining the amount of meltwater coming down the Mississippi River (Brown and Kennett 1998, Aharon 2003). Therefore, it is impossible after about 14,000 radiocarbon years BP for either Emiliani et al. (1975) or Collins (2000a) to make any inferences about climatic change simply based upon whether or not meltwater was flowing down the Mississippi River. The simplistic connection between climate change and Mississippi meltwater floods made by Collins (2000a) had been refuted even before he published it.

Between 10,000 to 11,200 radiocarbon years BP, there was a cessation of meltwater flow down the Mississippi River during a period called the "Cessation Event" (Figure 4) (Leventer et al. 1982, Flower and Kennett 1990, Marchitto and Wei 1995, Aharon 2003). In a complete refutation of the arguments of Collins (2000a), there is no flow of meltwater down the Mississippi River either at or 200 to 300 years after his alleged cosmic catastrophe. Melting at the margin of the ice sheet still generated huge amounts of glacial meltwater. However, instead of flowing down the Mississippi River and into the Gulf of Mexico, it emptied out of proglacial lakes in front of the Laurentide ice sheet into the North Atlantic via the St. Lawrence River. Therefore, climate was not a significant factor determining the lack of meltwater flowing down the Mississippi River. Thus, the latest research shows that the meltwater evidence used by Collins (2000a) used to link the "termination of the glacial age and inundation of low-lying regions of the Bahamas and Caribbean, with, quite literally, the drowning of Atlantis" exists only in his imagination.

It is not until 10,000 radiocarbon years BP, 400 to 500 years after the alleged cosmic impact, that a final pulse of meltwater flow down the Mississippi River started. This final pulse of final meltwater flooding occurred not because of pure climatic change and associated rapid melting of the Luarentide ice sheet as Collins (2000a) interpreted Emiliani et al. (1975). Rather, it occurred because isostatic rebound opened outlets of proglacial lakes draining into the Mississippi River. For the next 1,000 years, until 8,900 radiocarbon years BP, meltwater flooded down the Mississippi River into the Gulf of Mexico. At that time, the edge of the Laurentide ice sheet retreated far enough north that meltwater could empty into either the St. Lawrence or Hudson rivers or, by 8,200 radiocarbon years BP, Arctic Ocean (Licciardi et al. 1999).

As illustrated in Figure 4, Poole and Wright (1999) have delineated the occurrence of Holocene freshwater pulses from the Mississippi River. These pulses are clearly not of glacial origin. Likely they represent period of large-scale and frequent annual floods within the Mississippi Alluvial Valley. Although not as dramatic as comet and meteorite impacts, these periods of increased flooding within the Mississippi River Valley might have had catastrophic effects on the Native Americans occupying it at the times they occurred.

Finally, the timing of the global catastrophe of Collins (2000a) also failed to match any of the global meltwater events that have been found and dated in Fairbanks (1989, 1990), Clark et al. (1996, 2004), and other published papers (Figure 4). His global catastrophe occurs some 6,400 to 6,500 years after a period of rapid sea level rise and meltwater pulse, which started about 17,000 radiocarbon years BP (Clark et al. 2004). This meltwater pulse likely represents the first major period of ice sheet melting the start of the transition between glacial and post-glacial climates thousands of years before the cosmic catastrophe proposed by Collins (2000a). A second period of rapid sea level rise and meltwater pulse, called "mwp-1A", started about 12,200 radiocarbon years BP and ended about 11,700 radiocarbon years BP. Thus, it started about 1,600 to 1,700 years before and ended 1,100 to 1,200 years before his cosmic catastrophe. Given impacts of any sort, no matter how large, can not cause climatic change before they hit, it is impossible to use either of these meltwater events and the start of the climatic transition between the glacial and post-glacial climates as evidence of such an event. The last major global meltwater pulse, called "mwp-1B", occurred from 7,000 to 10,000 radiocarbon years BP and peaked at 9,500 radiocarbon years BP (Fairbridge 1989, 1990). This makes it too young to be associated with the cosmic catastrophe proposed by Collins (2000a).


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:17:09 pm
Pollen

In Chapter 22, Collins (2000a) interpreted the analyses of prehistoric pollen by Wright et al. (1963) and Ogden et al. (1967) as documenting a rapid period of climate change which was unusual and unique enough that it can only be explained by major comet or meteorite impact occurring at the "end of glaciation . In case of Kirchner Marsh, Minnesota discussed by Wright et al (1963), the formation of the kettle hole containing Kirshner Marsh during the retreat of the Laurentide Ice Sheet is clear evidence of the active, ongoing transition from glacial to post-glacial climate having started long before 13,270 radiocarbon years BP. This is over 2,000 years before a period of rapid climate change after 10,300 radiocarbon years BP, which is misrepresented by Collins (2000a) as being the entire period of change from glacial to post-glacial climate. After the formation of the kettle hole by deglaciation the continuation of active change from glacial to post-glacial climate is seen in the change from Spruce-Cyperaceae pollen zone, through the Spruce-ash, Spruce-Artemisia, Birch-alder, and Pine pollen zones and finally to Elm-oak pollen zone sometime after 10,230 radiocarbon years BP. In the case of Ogden et al. (1967), he concluded from the examination of numerous radiocarbon-dated Midwest pollen profiles that the spruce decline occurred about 10,000 radiocarbon years BP. This date is some 600 years after Collins (2000a) proposed his catastrophic impact occurred. It is clear from looking at the pollen data from the sites discussed in Ogden et al. (1976) that the transition from glacial to post-glacial climate started thousands of years before either the alleged catastrophic impacts and the period of abrupt climate change discussed by Ogden (1967). Examining these reference cited by Collins (2000a) it is quite clear that the period of abrupt, regional climate change after 10,300 radiocarbon years does not represent the entire transition from glacial to post-glacial climate as Collins (2000a) falsely claimed in Chapter 22. Instead, it is a brief period of rapid climate change that occurred about 5,700 years after the transition from glacial to post-glacial climate started. This distinction is important, because is quite impossible for the climate change that ended the last ice age to have started in response to his proposed catastrophic impact thousands of years before it happened.

In his discussion of Wright et al. (1963) and Ogden et al. (1967), Collins (2000a) falsely assumed that this single period of rapid climate warming was unique for the Pleistocene. Apparently he was unaware that throughout the last 125,000 years conventional geologists and paleoclimatologists have discovered numerous periods of rapid, hemispheric-wide, climatic change which are comparable to those he used as evidence of a cosmic catastrophe. Called "Dansgaard (Oeschger) events", 24 of these periods have occurred during the last glacial period, of which 16 of these occurred between 25,000 to 60,000 years ago. During a Dansgaard (Oeschger) event, which irregularly occurred approximately every 1500-2000a years, temperature increase by up to 8-10° centigrade over the period of a few decades (Broecker et al. 1985, Dansgaard et al. 1993, Stocker 1998). Thus, the rapid period of climatic warming used by Collins (2000a) is not unique as he claimed it to be. In fact, it is just one of many warming events, which have occurred throughout the last 125,000 years. It and other similar magnitude warming events are simply far too common to be credibly explained by extremely rare catastrophic processes such as meteorite or comet impacts.

As illustrated in Figure 4, Jacobson et al. (1987) demonstrated that the period of rapid climatic warming discussed by Wright et al. (1963) and Ogden et al. (1967) was not unique even for the period of climatic transition from glacial to post-glacial climates. Jacobson et al. (1987) found not one period of rapid, synchronous climate warming as claimed by Collins (2000a), but actually three periods of rapid, synchronous climatic warming having occurred during the transition from glacial to post-glacial climates (Figure 4). In this study, Jacobson et al. (1987) did a detailed analysis of the pollen records from 18 sites, characterized by continuous core, very closely spaced samples and numerous radiocarbon dates, covering southeastern and northeastern North America. He found that during the deglaciation of North America abrupt changes in vegetation, reflecting rapid, and synchronous changes in climate, occurred about 10,000, 12,300, and 13,500 radiocarbon years BP. Although noticeable in northeastern North America, the periods of synchronous climate change at 12,300 and 13,500 radiocarbon years BP were most pronounce in southeastern North America. In contrast, although noticeable in southeastern North America, the period of synchronous climate change at 10,000 radiocarbon years BP was most pronounce in northeastern North America. The number and frequency of these periods of climatic warming and the complete lack of any evidence, i.e. craters and ejecta, for a meteorite or comet impact associated with them discredit meteorite or comet impacts as a practical explanation for them. In contrast there are numerous climatic models that can explain these periods of climatic warming to varying degrees. In this case, either a meteorite or comet impact is simple-minded explanation for an event caused by the complex interaction of several processes. Broecker et al. 1988, Broecker 1998, Dansgaard et al. 1998, Stocker (1998), Alley et al. (2003), Sima et al. (2004), and many, many other published papers have discussed these processes and their interaction in great detail.

The timing of the periods of rapid and synchronous climatic warming delineated by Jacobson et al. (1987) also pose a significant problem for Collins (2000a). As determined by Jacobson et al. (1987) none of these periods, as in the case of the Mississippi River meltwater pulses and global meltwater events, are synchronous with the 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC) date proposed by Collins (2000a) for his catastrophic impact. The two oldest periods predate the time of his proposed comet impact, respectively, by 2,900 to 3,000 and 1,700 to 1,800 years. They both show that the transition from glacial to post-glacial climate, including periods of rapid and synchronous change, was already taking place before the comet impact proposed by Collins (2000a) even occurred. The last period of rapid and synchronous climatic change occurred 400 to 500 years after his alleged impact. In the case of this period climatic change, it does not make any scientific sense why the effects a catastrophic impact, larger in size than the impact that wiped out the dinosaurs as illustrated by Collins (2000a), should take hundreds of years to occur.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:17:29 pm
Other Climatic Data

Collins (2000a) cited Broecker et al. (1960) as evidence of abrupt climate change about 11,000 radiocarbon years BP. However, Broecker et al. (1960) fails to provide any evidence for his cosmic catastrophic. Eleven thousand radiocarbon years BP has been demonstrated to a very significant period of abrupt climatic cooling, which was the start of the "Younger Dryas" (Broecker et al. 1988, Broecker 1998, Flower and Kennett 1990, Sima et al. 2004). Although it was one the most significant periods of abrupt climate change during the last deglaciation, it fails to provide any evidence for a global catastrophe envisioned by Collins (2000a) as it occured 500 to 600 years before the proposed date for this global catastrophe and it was a period of rapid climatic cooling, not warming as he proposed. It occurs at the wrong time and represents climatic change in the wrong direction to be part of his proposed cosmic catastrophe. That Collins (2000a) confused the start of the Younger Dryas, a period of abrupt climatic cooling with its end, a period of abrupt climatic warming, 1,000 years later, in his discussions demonstrated a remarkable lack of knowledge of the timing of Pleistocene events on the part of Collins (2000a). This mistake is like arguing that the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and the London Blitz in World War II were contemporaneous and claiming that they are part of the same event.

Conclusions

In a detailed examination of the geologic evidence offered by Collins (2000a) for a catastrophic meteorite or comet impact about 10,500-10,600 BP (8,500-8.600 BC), I found that none of the observations or data provide convincing evidence for such an event. In the case of the Carolina Bays, there is overwhelming evidence that these features formed tens of thousands of years before 10,500-10,600 BP. Thus it is impossible that these features could have been formed at the time proposed by Collins (2000a). Also there exists a lack of any credible evidence indicating that some sort of impact related process produced them given that their morphology has been modified by tens of thousands of years of lacustrine and eolian processes. The deep sea craters cited by Collins (2000a) as evidence lack any convincing evidence of either their formation or existence to the point of being imaginary features. Similarly, the catastrophic interpretations of the so-called Alaskan muck by Hibben (1942, 1946) represent antiquated and obsolete research that has been complete refuted by research published in the decades since his papers and book were published. What is now known about the character and chronology of Mississippi River and global meltwater pulses contradicts Collins (2000a) interpretations to the point of refuting them. In fact the timing of meltwater pulses show that the transition from glacial to post-glacial climates started thousands of years before the date of his proposed impact and impossible to have been the result of it. Although rapid periods of synchronous warming have occurred during the transition from glacial to post-glacial climates, they were common features of paleoclimate during the last 125,000 years. They were far too common to be explained by invoking relatively rare large-magnitude comet or meteorite impact. The timing of these events is inconsistent with a meteorite or comet impact about 10,500-10,600 BP. Furthermore, as does the data on meltwater pulses, palynologic and other paleoclimatic evidence clearly demonstrates that the transition from glacial to post-glacial climates started thousands of years before 10,500-10,600 BP. In summary, none of the examined geologic evidence provided any evidence for the cosmic catastrophe provided postulated by Collins (2000a). When the latest research was examined, it directly contradicts his ideas concerning a terminal Pleistocene catastrophic impact.
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Posts: 1245 | From: Vienna, Austria | Registered: Sep 2005


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:19:13 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 02-16-2006 11:50 AM                   
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quote:
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Plate tectonics (from the Greek word for "one who constructs and destroys", τεκτων, tekton) is a theory of geology developed to explain the phenomenon of continental drift and is currently the theory accepted by the vast majority of scientists working in this area. In the theory of plate tectonics the outermost part of the Earth's interior is made up of two layers: the outer lithosphere and the inner asthenosphere.

The lithosphere essentially "floats" on the asthenosphere and is broken-up into ten major plates: African, Antarctic, Australian, Eurasian, North American, South American, Pacific, Cocos, Nazca, and the Indian plates. These plates (and the more numerous minor plates) move in relation to one another at one of three types of plate boundaries: convergent (or destructive, two plates push against one another), divergent (or constructive, two plates move away from each other), and transform (two plates slide past one another). Earthquakes, volcanic activity, mountain-building, and oceanic trench formation occur along plate boundaries (most notably around the Pacific Ring of Fire).

Plate tectonic theory arose out of two separate geological observations: continental drift, noticed in the early 20th century, and seafloor spreading, noticed in the 1960s. The theory itself was developed during the late 1960s and has since almost universally been accepted by scientists and has revolutionized the earth sciences (akin in its unifying and explanatory power for diverse geological phenomena as the development of the periodic table was for chemistry, the discovery of the genetic code for genetics, evolution in biology, and the theory of relativity in physics).
The tectonic plates of the world were mapped in the second half of the 20th century.This image shows the direction in which the plates are moving. Click the image to see a larger version.
Enlarge
The tectonic plates of the world were mapped in the second half of the 20th century.This image shows the direction in which the plates are moving. Click the image to see a larger version.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Key principles
* 2 Types of plate boundaries
o 2.1 Transform (conservative) boundaries
o 2.2 Divergent (constructive) boundaries
o 2.3 Convergent (destructive) boundaries
* 3 Sources of plate motion
o 3.1 Friction
o 3.2 Gravity
* 4 Major plates
* 5 History and impact
o 5.1 Continental drift
o 5.2 Floating continents
o 5.3 Plate tectonic theory
+ 5.3.1 Explanation of magnetic striping
+ 5.3.2 Subduction discovered
+ 5.3.3 Mapping with earthquakes
o 5.4 Geological paradigm shift
* 6 Plate tectonics on Other Planets
* 7 See also
* 8 Metaphoric uses
* 9 References
* 10 External links

[edit]

Key principles

The division of the Earth's interior into lithospheric and asthenospheric components is based on their mechanical differences. The lithosphere is cooler and more rigid, whilst the asthenosphere is hotter and mechanically weaker. This division should not be confused with the chemical subdivision of the Earth into (from innermost to outermost) core, mantle, and crust. The key principle of plate tectonics is that the lithosphere exists as separate and distinct tectonic plates, which "float" on the fluid-like asthenosphere. The relative fluidity of the asthenosphere allows the tectonic plates to undergo motion in different directions.

One plate meets another along a plate boundary, and plate boundaries are commonly associated with geological events such as earthquakes and the creation of topographic features like mountains, volcanoes and oceanic trenches. The majority of the world's active volcanoes occur along plate boundaries, with the Pacific Plate's Ring of Fire being most active and famous. These boundaries are discussed in further detail below.

Tectonic plates are comprised of two types of lithosphere: continental and oceanic lithospheres; for example, the African Plate includes the continent and parts of the floor of the Atlantic and Indian Oceans. The distinction is based on the density of constituent materials; oceanic lithospheres are denser than continental ones due to their greater mafic mineral content. As a result, the oceanic lithospheres generally lie below sea level (for example the entire Pacific Plate, which carries no continent), while the continental ones project above sea level (see isostasy for explanation of this principle).
[edit]

Types of plate boundaries
Three types of plate boundary.
Enlarge
Three types of plate boundary.

There are three types of plate boundaries, characterised by the way the plates move relative to each other. They are associated with different types of surface phenomena. The different types of plate boundaries are:

1. Transform boundaries occur where plates slide, or perhaps more accurately grind, past each other along transform faults. The relative motion of the two plates is either sinistral (left side toward the observer) or dextral (right side toward the observer).
2. Divergent boundaries occur where two plates slide apart from each other.
3. Convergent boundaries (or active margins) occur where two plates slide towards each other commonly forming either a subduction zone (if one plate moves underneath the other) or an orogenic belt (if the two simply collide and compress).

Plate boundary zones occur in more complex situations where three or more plates meet and exhibit a mixture of the above three boundary types.
[edit]

Transform (conservative) boundaries

The left- or right-lateral motion of one plate against another along transform faults can cause highly visible surface effects. Because of friction, the plates cannot simply glide past each other. Rather, stress builds up in both plates and when it reaches a level that exceeds the slipping-point of rocks on either side of the transform-faults the accumulated potential energy is released as strain, or motion along the fault. The massive amounts of energy that are released are the cause of earthquakes, a common phenomenon along transform boundaries.

A good example of this type of plate boundary is the San Andreas Fault complex, which is found in the western coast of North America and is one part of a highly complex system of faults in this area. At this location, the Pacific and North American plates move relative to each other such that the Pacific plate is moving north with respect to North America.
[edit]

Divergent (constructive) boundaries

At divergent boundaries, two plates move apart from each other and the space that this creates is filled with new crustal material sourced from molten magma that forms below. The origin of new divergent boundaries at triple junctions is sometimes thought to be associated with the phenomenon known as hotspots. Here, exceedingly large convective cells bring very large quantities of hot asthenospheric material near the surface and the kinetic energy is thought to be sufficient to break apart the lithosphere. The hot spot which may have initiated the Mid-Atlantic Ridge system currently underlies Iceland which is widening at a rate of a few centimetres per century.

Divergent boundaries are typified in the oceanic lithosphere by the rifts of the oceanic ridge system, including the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and in the continental lithosphere by rift valleys such as the famous East African Great Rift Valley. Divergent boundaries can create massive fault zones in the oceanic ridge system. Spreading is generally not uniform, so where spreading rates of adjacent ridge blocks are different massive transform faults occur. These are the fracture zones, many bearing names, that are a major source of submarine earthquakes. A sea floor map will show a rather strange pattern of blocky structures that are separated by linear features perpendicular to the ridge axis. If one views the sea floor between the fracture zones as conveyor belts carrying the ridge on each side of the rift away from the spreading center the action becomes clear. Crest depths of the old ridges, parallel to the current spreading center, will be older and deeper (due to thermal contraction and subsidence).

It is at mid-ocean ridges that one of the key pieces of evidence forcing acceptance of the sea-floor spreading hypothesis was found. Airborne geomagnetic surveys showed a strange pattern of symmetrical magnetic reversals on opposite sides of ridge centres. The pattern was far too regular to be coincidental as the widths of the opposing bands were too closely matched. Scientists had been studying polar reversals and the link was made. The magnetic banding directly corresponds with the Earth's polar reversals. This was confirmed by measuring the ages of the rocks within each band. The banding furnishes a map in time and space of both spreading rate and polar reversals.
[edit]

Convergent (destructive) boundaries

The nature of a convergent boundary depends on the type of lithosphere in the plates that are colliding. Where a dense oceanic plate collides with a less-dense continental plate, the oceanic plate is typically thrust underneath, forming a subduction zone. At the surface, the topographic expression is commonly an oceanic trench on the ocean side and a mountain range on the continental side. An example of a continental-oceanic subduction zone is the area along the western coast of South America where the oceanic Nazca Plate is being subducted beneath the continental South American Plate. As the subducting plate descends, its temperature rises driving off volatiles (most importantly water). As this water rises into the mantle of the overriding plate, it lowers its melting temperature, resulting in the formation of magma with large amounts of dissolved gases. This can erupt to the surface, forming long chains of volcanoes inland from the continental shelf and parallel to it. The continental spine of South America is dense with this type of volcano. In North America the Cascade mountain range, extending north from California's Sierra Nevada, is also of this type. Such volcanoes are characterized by alternating periods of quiet and episodic eruptions that start with explosive gas expulsion with fine particles of glassy volcanic ash and spongy cinders, followed by a rebuilding phase with hot magma. The entire Pacific ocean boundary is surrounded by long stretches of volcanoes and is known collectively as The Ring of Fire.

Where two continental plates collide the plates either crumple and compress or one plate burrows under or (potentially) overrides the other. Either action will create extensive mountain ranges. The most dramatic effect seen is where the northern margins of the Indian subcontinental plate is being thrust under a portion of the Eurasian plate, lifting it and creating the Himalaya.

When two oceanic plates converge they form an island arc as one oceanic plate is subducted below the other. Good examples of this type of plate convergence would be Japan and the Aleutian Islands in Alaska.

Oceanic / Continental


Continental / Continental


Oceanic / Oceanic
[edit]

Sources of plate motion

As noted above, the plates are able to move because of the relative weakness of the asthenosphere. Dissipation of heat from the mantle is acknowledged to be the source of energy driving plate tectonics. Somehow, this energy must be converted into force in order for the plates to move. There are essentially two forces that could be driving plate motion: friction and gravity. These are further subdivided below.
[edit]

Friction

Mantle drag
Convection currents in the mantle are transmitted through the asthenosphere; motion is driven by friction between the asthenosphere and the lithosphere.
Trench suction
Local convection currents exert a downward frictional pull on plates in subduction zones at ocean trenches.

[edit]

Gravity

Ridge-push
Plate motion is driven by the higher elevation of plates at mid-ocean ridges. Essentially stuff slides downhill. The higher elevation is caused by the relatively low density of hot material upwelling in the mantle. The real motion producing force is the upwelling and the energy source that runs it. This is a misnomer as nothing is pushing and tensional features are dominant along ridges. Also, it is difficult to explain continental break-up with this.
Slab-pull
Plate motion is driven by the weight of cold, dense plates sinking into the mantle at trenches.

There is considerable evidence that convection is occurring in the mantle at some scale. The upwelling of material at mid-ocean ridges is almost certainly part of this convection. Some early models of plate tectonics envisioned the plates riding on top of convection cells like conveyor belts. However, most scientists working today believe that the asthenosphere is not strong enough to directly cause motion by friction. Slab pull is widely believed to be the strongest force directly operating on plates. Recent models indicate that trench suction plays an important role as well. The over-all driving force and its energy source are still debatable subjects of on-going research.

Lunar drag
In a study published in the January-February 2006 issue of the Geological Society of America's journal Bulletin, a team of Italian and U.S. scientists argue that the westward motion of the world's tectonic plates is due to the tidal attraction of the moon. As the Earth spins eastward beneath the moon, they say, the moon's gravity ever so slightly holds the Earth's surface layer back. This "lunar drag" causes the crust to slip slowly westward. [1]

[edit]

Major plates
Plate tectonics map

The main plates are

* African Plate, covering Africa
* Antarctic Plate, covering Antarctica
* Australian Plate, covering Australia (fused with Indian Plate between 50 and 55 million years ago)
* Eurasian Plate covering Eurasia
* North American Plate covering North America and north-east Siberia
* South American Plate covering South America
* Pacific Plate, covering the Pacific Ocean

Notable minor plates include the Indian Plate and the Arabian Plate.

The movement of plates has caused the formation and breakup of continents over time, including occasional formation of a supercontinent that contains most or all of the continents. The supercontinent Rodinia is thought to have formed about 1000 million years ago and to have embodied most or all of Earth's continents, and broken up into eight continents around 600 million years ago. The eight continents later re-assembled into another supercontinent called Pangaea; Pangea eventually broke up into Laurasia (which became North America and Eurasia) and Gondwana (which became the remaining continents).

Related article

* List of tectonic plates

[edit]

History and impact
[edit]

Continental drift

For more details on this topic, see Continental drift.

Continental drift was one of many ideas about tectonics proposed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The theory has been superseded by and the concepts and data have been incorporated within plate tectonics.

By 1915 Alfred Wegener was making serious arguments for the idea with the first edition of The Origin of Continents and Oceans. In that book he noted how the east coast of South America and the west coast of Africa looked as if they were once attached. Wegener wasn't the first to note this (Francis Bacon, Benjamin Franklin and Snider-Pellegrini preceded him), but he was the first to marshal significant fossil and paleo-topographical and climatological evidence to support this simple observation. However, his ideas were not taken seriously by many geologists, who pointed out that there was no apparent mechanism for continental drift. Specifically they did not see how continental rock could plow through the much denser rock that makes up oceanic crust.

In the early 1940s, Maurice Ewing seismically tested the Atlantic edge of the North American continental shelf, and found a granitic layer dropped down to the basaltic ocean floor. If the continent had been torn from Europe and was plowing through the ocean bottom, the edge of the continental shelf should have marked the end of granitic rocks. Later studies aboard the Atlantis found that ocean bottom was not smooth, which suggested it was much stronger than if continents could push it aside.

Beginning in the 1950s, scientists, using magnetic instruments (magnetometers) adapted from airborne devices developed during World War II to detect submarines, began recognizing odd magnetic variations across the ocean floor. This finding, though unexpected, was not entirely surprising because it was known that basalt -- the iron-rich, volcanic rock making up the ocean floor-- contains a strongly magnetic mineral (magnetite) and can locally distort compass readings. This distortion was recognized by Icelandic mariners as early as the late 18th century. More important, because the presence of magnetite gives the basalt measurable magnetic properties, these newly discovered magnetic variations provided another means to study the deep ocean floor. When newly formed rock cools, such magnetic materials recorded the Earth's magnetic field at the time.

As more and more of the seafloor was mapped during the 1950s, the magnetic variations turned out not to be random or isolated occurrences, but instead revealed recognizable patterns. When these magnetic patterns were mapped over a wide region, the ocean floor showed a zebra-like pattern. Alternating stripes of magnetically different rock were laid out in rows on either side of the mid-ocean ridge: one stripe with normal polarity and the adjoining stripe with reversed polarity. The overall pattern, defined by these alternating bands of normally and reversely polarized rock, became known as magnetic striping.

When the rock strata of the tips of separate continents are very similar it suggests that these rocks were formed in the same way implying that they were joined initially. For instance, some parts of Scotland contain rocks very similar to those found in eastern North America. Furthermore, the Caledonian Mountains of Europe and parts of the Appalachian Mountains of North America are very similar in structure and lithology.
[edit]

Floating continents

The prevailing concept was that there were static shells of strata under the continents. It was early observed that although granite existed on continents, seafloor seemed to be composed of denser basalt. It was apparent that a layer of basalt underlies continental rocks.

However, based upon abnormalities in plumb line deflection by the Andes in Peru, Pierre Bouguer deduced that less-dense mountains must have a downward projection into the denser layer underneath. The concept that mountains had "roots" was confirmed by George B. Airy a hundred years later during study of Himalayan gravitation, and seismic studies detected corresponding density variations.

By the mid-1950s the question remained unresolved of whether mountain roots were clenched in surrounding basalt or were floating like an iceberg.
[edit]

Plate tectonic theory

Significant progress was made in the 1960s, and was prompted by a number of discoveries, most notably the Mid-Atlantic ridge. The most notable was the 1962 publication of a paper by American geologist Harry Hess (Robert S. Dietz published the same idea one year earlier in Nature. However, priority belongs to Hess, since he distributed an unpublished manuscript of his 1962 article already in 1960). Hess suggested that instead of continents moving through oceanic crust (as was suggested by continental drift) that an ocean basin and its adjoining continent moved together on the same crustal unit, or plate. In the same year, Robert R. Coats of the U.S. Geological Survey described the main features of island arc subduction in the Aleutian Islands. His paper, though little-noted (and even ridiculed) at the time, has since been called "seminal" and "prescient". In 1967, Jason Morgan proposed that the Earth's surface consists of 12 rigid plates that move relative to each other. Two months later, in 1968, Xavier Le Pichon published a complete model based on 6 major plates with their relative motions.
[edit]

Explanation of magnetic striping
Seafloor magnetic striping.
Enlarge
Seafloor magnetic striping.

The discovery of magnetic striping and the stripes being symmetrical around the crests of the mid-ocean ridges suggested a relationship. In 1961, scientists began to theorise that mid-ocean ridges mark structurally weak zones where the ocean floor was being ripped in two lengthwise along the ridge crest. New magma from deep within the Earth rises easily through these weak zones and eventually erupts along the crest of the ridges to create new oceanic crust. This process, later called seafloor spreading, operating over many millions of years has built the 50,000 km-long system of mid-ocean ridges. This hypothesis was supported by several lines of evidence:

1. at or near the crest of the ridge, the rocks are very young, and they become progressively older away from the ridge crest;
2. the youngest rocks at the ridge crest always have present-day (normal) polarity;
3. stripes of rock parallel to the ridge crest alternated in magnetic polarity (normal-reversed-normal, etc.), suggesting that the Earth's magnetic field has flip-flopped many times.

By explaining both the zebralike magnetic striping and the construction of the mid-ocean ridge system, the seafloor spreading hypothesis quickly gained converts and represented another major advance in the development of the plate-tectonics theory. Furthermore, the oceanic crust now came to be appreciated as a natural "tape recording" of the history of the reversals in the Earth's magnetic field.
[edit]

Subduction discovered

A profound consequence of seafloor spreading is that new crust was, and is now, being continually created along the oceanic ridges. This idea found great favor with some scientists who claimed that the shifting of the continents can be simply explained by a large increase in size of the Earth since its formation. However, this so-called "expanding Earth" hypothesis was unsatisfactory because its supporters could offer no convincing geologic mechanism to produce such a huge, sudden expansion. Most geologists believe that the Earth has changed little, if at all, in size since its formation 4.6 billion years ago, raising a key question: how can new crust be continuously added along the oceanic ridges without increasing the size of the Earth?

This question particularly intrigued Harry Hess, a Princeton University geologist and a Naval Reserve Rear Admiral, and Robert S. Dietz, a scientist with the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey who first coined the term seafloor spreading. Dietz and Hess were among the small handful who really understood the broad implications of sea floor spreading. If the Earth's crust was expanding along the oceanic ridges, Hess reasoned, it must be shrinking elsewhere. He suggested that new oceanic crust continuously spread away from the ridges in a conveyor belt-like motion. Many millions of years later, the oceanic crust eventually descends into the oceanic trenches -- very deep, narrow canyons along the rim of the Pacific Ocean basin. According to Hess, the Atlantic Ocean was expanding while the Pacific Ocean was shrinking. As old oceanic crust was consumed in the trenches, new magma rose and erupted along the spreading ridges to form new crust. In effect, the ocean basins were perpetually being "recycled," with the creation of new crust and the destruction of old oceanic lithosphere occurring simultaneously. Thus, Hess' ideas neatly explained why the Earth does not get bigger with sea floor spreading, why there is so little sediment accumulation on the ocean floor, and why oceanic rocks are much younger than continental rocks.
[edit]

Mapping with earthquakes

During the 20th century, improvements in seismic instrumentation and greater use of earthquake-recording instruments (seismographs) worldwide enabled scientists to learn that earthquakes tend to be concentrated in certain areas, most notably along the oceanic trenches and spreading ridges. By the late 1920s, seismologists were beginning to identify several prominent earthquake zones parallel to the trenches that typically were inclined 40-60° from the horizontal and extended several hundred kilometers into the Earth. These zones later became known as Wadati-Benioff zones, or simply Benioff zones, in honor of the seismologists who first recognized them, Kiyoo Wadati of Japan and Hugo Benioff of the United States. The study of global seismicity greatly advanced in the 1960s with the establishment of the Worldwide Standardized Seismograph Network (WWSSN) to monitor the compliance of the 1963 treaty banning above-ground testing of nuclear weapons. The much-improved data from the WWSSN instruments allowed seismologists to map precisely the zones of earthquake concentration worldwide.
[edit]

Geological paradigm shift

The acceptance of the theories of continental drift and sea floor spreading (the two key elements of plate tectonics) can be compared to the Copernican revolution in astronomy (see Nicolaus Copernicus). Within a matter of only several years geophysics and geology in particular were revolutionized. The parallel is striking: just as pre-Copernican astronomy was highly descriptive but still unable to provide explanations for the motions of celestial objects, pre-tectonic plate geological theories described what was observed but struggled to provide any fundamental mechanisms. The problem lay in the question "How?". Before acceptance of plate tectonics, geology in particular was trapped in a "pre-Copernican" box.

However, by comparison to astronomy the geological revolution was much more sudden. What had been rejected for decades by any respectable scientific journal was eagerly accepted within a few short years in the 1960s and 1970s. Any geological description before this had been highly descriptive. All the rocks were described and assorted reasons, sometimes in excruciating detail, were given for why they were where they are. The descriptions are still valid. The reasons, however, today sound much like pre-Copernican astronomy.

One simply has to read the pre-plate descriptions of why the Alps or Himalaya exist to see the difference. In an attempt to answer "how" questions like "How can rocks that are clearly marine in origin exist thousands of meters above sea-level in the Dolomites?", or "How did the convex and concave margins of the Alpine chain form?", any true insight was hidden by complexity that boiled down to technical jargon without much fundamental insight as to the underlying mechanics.

With plate tectonics answers quickly fell into place or a path to the answer became clear. Collisions of converging plates had the force to lift sea floor into thin atmospheres. The cause of marine trenches oddly placed just off island arcs or continents and their associated volcanoes became clear when the processes of subduction at converging plates were understood.

Mysteries were no longer mysteries. Forests of complex and obtuse answers were swept away. Why were there striking parallels in the geology of parts of Africa and South America? Why did Africa and South America look strangely like two pieces that should fit to anyone having done a jigsaw puzzle? Look at some pre-tectonics explanations for complexity. For simplicity and one that explained a great deal more look at plate tectonics. A great rift, similar to the Great Rift Valley in northeastern Africa, had split apart a single continent, eventually forming the Atlantic Ocean, and the forces were still at work in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

We have inherited some of the old terminology, but the underlying concept is as radical and simple as "The Earth moves" was in astronomy.
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Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman

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Posts: 1245 | From: Vienna, Austria | Registered: Sep 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:35:47 pm
Carolyn Silver

Member
Member # 2287

Member Rated:
   posted 02-16-2006 09:57 PM                       
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Hardy har, har.
You are SOOOO funny, Pagan.
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:38:29 pm
Plate tectonics -- a failed revolution

Plates in motion?

According to the classical model of plate tectonics, lithospheric plates move over a relatively plastic layer of partly molten rock known as the asthenosphere (or low-velocity zone). The lithosphere, which comprises the earth's crust and uppermost mantle, is said to average about 70 km thick beneath oceans and to be 100 to 250 km thick beneath continents. A powerful challenge to this model is posed by seismic tomography, which produces three-dimensional images of the earth's interior. It shows that the oldest parts of the continents have deep roots extending to depths of 400 to 600 km, and that the asthenosphere is essentially absent beneath them. Seismic research shows that even under the oceans there is no continuous asthenosphere, only disconnected asthenospheric lenses.
    The crust and uppermost mantle have a highly complex, irregular structure; they are divided by faults into a mosaic of separate, jostling blocks of different shapes and sizes, and of varying internal structure and strength. N.I. Pavlenkova concludes: 'This means that the movement of lithospheric plates over long distances, as single rigid bodies, is hardly possible. Moreover, if we take into account the absence of the asthenosphere as a single continuous zone, then this movement seems utterly impossible' [1]. Although the concept of thin lithospheric plates moving thousands of kilometers over a global asthenosphere is untenable, most geological textbooks continue to propagate this simplistic model, and fail to give the slightest indication that it faces any problems.

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig1.jpg)

Figure 1. Seismotomographic cross-section showing velocity structure across the North American craton and North Atlantic Ocean. High-velocity (colder) lithosphere, shown in dark tones, underlies the Canadian shield to depths of 250 to 500 km. (Reprinted with permission from Grand [2]. Copyright by the American Geophysical Union.)



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:40:45 pm
The driving force of plate movements was initially claimed to be mantle-deep convection currents welling up beneath midocean ridges, with downwelling occurring beneath ocean trenches. Plate tectonicists expected seismotomography to provide clear evidence of a well-organized convection-cell pattern, but it has actually provided strong evidence against the existence of large, plate-propelling convection cells in the mantle. The favored plate-driving mechanisms at present are 'ridge-push' and 'slab-pull', but their adequacy is very much in doubt.
Thirteen major plates are currently recognized, ranging in size from about 400 by 2500 km to 10,000 by 10,000 km, together with a proliferating number of microplates (over 100 so far). Plate boundaries are identified and defined mainly on the basis of earthquake and volcanic activity. The close correspondence between plate edges and belts of earthquakes and volcanoes is therefore to be expected and can hardly be regarded as one of the 'successes' of plate tectonics! A major problem is that several 'plate boundaries' are purely theoretical and appear to be nonexistent, including the northwest Pacific boundary of the Pacific, North American, and Eurasian plates, the southern boundary of the Philippine plate, part of the southern boundary of the Pacific plate, and most of the northern and southern boundaries of the South American plate.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sunken.htm#pl


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:42:37 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-16-2006 10:01 PM                       
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Continental drift

Geological field mapping provides evidence for horizontal crustal movements of up to several hundred kilometers. Plate tectonics, however, claims that continents have moved up to 7000 km or more since the alleged breakup of Pangaea. Satellite measurements of crustal movements have been hailed by some geologists as having proved plate tectonics. Such measurements provide a guide to crustal strains, but do not provide evidence for plate motions of the kind predicted by plate tectonics unless the relative motions predicted among all plates are observed. However, many of the results have shown no definite pattern, and have been confusing and contradictory, giving rise to a variety of ad-hoc hypotheses. For instance, distances from the Central South American Andes to Japan or Hawaii are more or less constant, whereas plate tectonics predicts significant separation. The practise of extrapolating present crustal movements tens or hundreds of millions of years into the past or future is clearly a hazardous exercise.
A 'compelling' piece of evidence that all the continents were once united in one large landmass is said to be the fact that they can be fitted together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. However, although many reconstructions have been attempted, none are entirely acceptable. In the Bullard et al. computer-generated fit, for example, there are a number of glaring omissions. The whole of Central America and much of southern Mexico -- a region of some 2,100,000 km² -- has been left out because it overlaps South America. The entire West Indian archipelago has also been omitted. In fact, much of the Caribbean is underlain by ancient continental crust, and the total area involved, 300,000 km², overlaps Africa. The Cape Verde Islands-Senegal basin, too, is underlain by ancient continental crust, creating an additional overlap of 800,000 km². Several major submarine structures that appear to be of continental origin are also ignored, including the Faeroe-Iceland-Greenland Ridge, Jan Mayen Ridge, Walvis Ridge, Rio Grande Rise, and the Falkland Plateau.

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/fig2.jpg)

Figure 2. The Bullard fit. Overlaps and gaps between continents are shown in black. (Reprinted with permission from Bullard et al. [3]. Copyright by The Royal Society.)

Like the Bullard fit, the Smith & Hallam reconstruction of the Gondwanaland continents tries to fit the continents along the 500-fathom (1-km) depth contour on the continental shelves. The South Orkneys and South Georgia are omitted, as is Kerguelen Island in the Indian Ocean, and there is a large gap west of Australia. Fitting India against Australia, as in other fits, leaves a corresponding gap in the western Indian Ocean. Dietz & Holden based their fit on the 2-km depth contour, but they still have to omit the Florida-Bahamas platform, ignoring the evidence that it predates the alleged commencement of drift. In many regions the boundary between continental and oceanic crust appears to occur beneath oceanic depths of 2-4 km or more, and in some places the ocean-continent transition zone is several hundred kilometers wide. This means that any reconstructions based on arbitrarily selected depth contours are flawed. Given the liberties that drifters have had to take to obtain the desired continental matches, their computer-generated fits may well be a case of 'garbage in, garbage out'.
The curvature of continental contours is often so similar that many shorelines can be fitted together quite well even though they can never have been in juxtaposition. For instance, eastern Australia fits well with eastern North America, and there are also remarkable geological and paleontological similarities, probably due to the similar tectonic backgrounds of the two regions. The geological resemblances of opposing Atlantic coastlines may be due to the areas having belonged to the same tectonic belt, but the differences -- which are rarely mentioned -- are sufficient to show that the areas were situated in distant parts of the belt. H.P. Blavatsky regarded the similarities in the geological structure, fossils, and marine life of the opposite coasts of the Atlantic in certain periods as evidence that 'there has been, in distant pre-historic ages, a continent which extended from the coast of Venezuela, across the Atlantic Ocean, to the Canarese Islands and North Africa, and from Newfoundland nearly to the coast of France' [4].
One of the main props of continental drift is paleomagnetism -- the study of the magnetism of ancient rocks and sediments. For each continent a 'polar wander path' can be constructed, and these are interpreted to mean that the continents have moved vast distances over the earth's surface. However, paleomagnetism is very unreliable and frequently produces inconsistent and contradictory results. For instance, paleomagnetic data imply that during the mid-Cretaceous Azerbaijan and Japan were in the same place! When individual paleomagnetic pole positions, rather than averaged curves, are plotted on world maps, the scatter is huge, often wider than the Atlantic.
One of the basic assumptions of paleomagnetism is that rocks retain the magnetization they acquire at the time they formed. In reality, rock magnetism is subject to modification by later magnetism, weathering, metamorphism, tectonic deformation, and chemical changes. Horizontal and vertical rotations of crustal blocks further complicate the picture. Another questionable assumption is that over long periods of time the geomagnetic field approximates a simple dipole (N-S) field oriented along the earth's rotation axis. If, in the past, there were stable magnetic anomalies of the same intensity as the present-day East Asian anomaly (or slightly more intensive), this would render the geocentric axial dipole hypothesis invalid.
The opening of the Atlantic Ocean allegedly began in the Cretaceous by the rifting apart of the Eurasian and American plates. However, on the other side of the globe, northeastern Eurasia is joined to North America by the Bering-Chukotsk shelf, which is underlain by Precambrian continental crust that is continuous and unbroken from Alaska to Siberia. Geologically these regions constitute a single unit, and it is unrealistic to suppose that they were formerly divided by an ocean several thousand kilometers wide, which closed to compensate for the opening of the Atlantic. If a suture is absent there, one ought to be found in Eurasia or North America, but no such suture appears to exist. Similarly, geology indicates that there has been a direct tectonic connection between Europe and Africa across the zones of Gibraltar and Rif on the one hand, and Calabria and Sicily on the other, at least since the end of the Paleozoic, contradicting plate-tectonic claims of significant displacement between Europe and Africa during this period.
India supposedly detached itself from Antarctica sometime during the Mesozoic, and then drifted northeastward up to 9000 km, over a period of up to 200 million years, until it finally collided with Asia in the mid-Tertiary, pushing up the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau. That Asia happened to have an indentation of approximately the correct shape and size and in exactly the right place for India to 'dock' into would amount to a remarkable coincidence. There is, however, overwhelming geological and paleontological evidence that India has been an integral part of Asia since Precambrian time. If the long journey of India had actually happened, it would have been an isolated island-continent for millions of years -- sufficient time to have evolved a highly distinct endemic fauna. However, the Mesozoic and Tertiary faunas show no such endemism, but indicate instead that India lay very close to Asia throughout this period, and not to Australia and Antarctica. It would appear that the supposed 'flight of India' is no more than a flight of fancy!
It is often claimed that plate-tectonic reassemblies of the continents can help to explain climatic changes and the distribution of plants and animals in the past. However, detailed studies have shown that shifting the continents succeeds at best in explaining local or regional climatic features for a particular period, and invariably fails to explain the global climate for the same period. A.A. Meyerhoff et al. showed in a detailed study that most major biogeographical boundaries, based on floral and faunal distributions, do not coincide with the partly computer-generated plate boundaries postulated by plate tectonics. The authors comment: 'What is puzzling is that such major inconsistencies between plate tectonic postulates and field data, involving as they do boundaries that extend for thousands of kilometers, are permitted to stand unnoticed, unacknowledged, and unstudied.' Before their study was published by the Geological Society of America, a group of earth-science graduates was invited to study the manuscript. They became deeply disturbed by what they read, and commented: 'If this global study of biodiversity through time is correct, and it is very convincingly presented, then a lot of what we are being taught about plate tectonics should more aptly be called "Globaloney" ' [5].
It is unscientific to select a few faunal identities and ignore the vastly greater number of faunal dissimilarities from different continents which were supposedly once joined [6]. The known distributions of fossil organisms are more consistent with an earth model like that of today than with continental-drift models. Some of the paleontological evidence appears to require the alternate emergence and submergence of land dispersal routes only after the supposed breakup of Pangaea. For example, mammal distribution indicates that there were no direct physical connections between Europe and North America during Late Cretaceous and Paleocene times, but suggests a temporary connection with Europe during the Eocene. A few drifters have recognized the need for intermittent land bridges after the supposed separation of the continents. Various oceanic ridges, rises, and plateaus could have served as land bridges, as many are known to have been partly above water at various times in the past. There is growing evidence that these land bridges formed part of larger former landmasses in the present oceans (see below).
The present distribution of land and water is characterized by a number of notable regularities. First, the continents tend to be triangular, with their pointed ends to the south. Second, the northern polar ocean is almost entirely ringed by land, from which three continents project southward, while the continental landmass at the south pole is surrounded by water, with three oceans projecting northward. Third, the oceans and continents are arranged antipodally -- i.e. if there is land in one area of the globe, there tends to be water in the corresponding area on the opposite side of the globe.
The Arctic Ocean is precisely antipodal to Antarctica; North America is exactly antipodal to the Indian Ocean; Europe and Africa are antipodal to the central area of the Pacific Ocean; Australia is antipodal to the North Atlantic; and the South Atlantic corresponds -- though less exactly -- to the eastern half of Asia.* Only 7% of the earth's surface does not obey the antipodal rule. If the continents had slowly drifted thousands of kilometers to their present positions, the antipodal arrangement of land and water would have to be regarded as purely coincidental. The antipodal arrangement of land and seas reflects the tetrahedral plan of the earth. If one corner of the tetrahedron is placed in Antarctica, at the south pole, the other three lie in three vast blocks of very ancient, Archean rocks in the northern hemisphere: the Canadian shield, the Scandinavian shield, and the Siberian shield, and the three edges correspond to the three roughly meridional lines running through the three pairs of continents: North and South America, Europe and Africa, Asia and Australia.**


*Rupert Sheldrake likens the earth to a developing organism, and says that the existence of an ocean at the north pole and a continent at the south pole may be the culmination of a morphogenetic process: 'Such a morphological polarization of a spherical body is very familiar in the realm of biology; for example, in the formation of poles in fertilized eggs' (The Rebirth of Nature, Bantam, 1991, p. 161).
**J.W. Gregory suggested that in the Upper Paleozoic the tetrahedron was the other way up, with one corner at the north pole. Instead of a continuous southern ocean-belt separating triangular points of land, there was then a southern land-belt, supported by three great equidistant cornerstones: the Archean blocks of South America, South Africa, and Australia.


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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:42:56 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-16-2006 10:04 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Tom Hebert1:
Hi Carolyn,

I think you've done a great job with all of this research! Why can't people see the light? Must be a case of myopia.  :(
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Hi Tom, thanks!
In answer to your question, I noticed that in order for people to try and get others to accept their own CRAPPY theories on Atlantis, they have to try their hardest to get other people not to accept not only the most popular ones, but the most basic ones as well, namely that Atlantis was an ISLAND in the Atlantic, like Plato says!!!
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:46:37 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 02-16-2006 10:10 PM                   
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quote:
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Mid-Atlantic Ridge
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Mid-atlantic_ridge_map.png)

Image:Mid-atlantic_ridge_map.png

Courtesy USGS

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is a mostly underwater mountain range of the Atlantic Ocean that runs from 87°N (about 333 km South of the North Pole) to subantarctic Bouvet Island, where it turns into Atlantic-Indian-Ridge and continues further East through Crozet Plateau to the Southwest Indian Ridge, while in the West it is followed by Scotia Ridge. It is part of the mid-oceanic ridge. The highest peaks of this mountain range extend above the water mark, to form islands. Near the Equator, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is dissected into the North Atlantic Ridge and the South Atlantic Ridge by the Romanche Trench, a narrow submarine trench with a maximum depth of 7 758 m, one of the deepest locations of the Atlantic Ocean. The portion of the ridge north of Iceland is in fact part of the Arctic Ocean. The islands are, from North to South, with their respective highest peaks, elevations in m, and location:

Northern Hemisphere (North Atlantic Ridge):

1. Jan Mayen (Beerenberg, 2277 m, at 71°06'N, 08°12'W), in the Arctic Ocean
2. Iceland (Hvannadalshnúkur in the Vatnajökull, 2119 m, at 64°01'N, 16°41'W)
3. Azores (Ponta do Pico or Pico Alto, on Pico Island, 2351 m, at 38°28'0"N, 28°24'0"W)
4. Saint Peter and Paul Rocks (Southwest Rock, 22.5 m, at 00°55'08"N, 29°20'35"W)

Southern Hemisphere (South Atlantic Ridge):

1. Ascension Island (The Peak, Green Mountain, 859 m, at 07°59'S, 14°25'W)
2. Tristan da Cunha (Queen Mary's Peak, 2062 m, at 37°05'S, 12°17'W)
3. Gough Island (Edinburgh Peak, 909 m, at 40°20'S, 10°00'W)
4. Bouvet Island (Olavtoppen, 780 m, at 54°24'S, 03°21'E)

These mountain ranges are where tectonic plates pull apart, this pulling motion creates cracks in the ocean floor called rift zones. As the plates pull apart, magma rises to fill in the spaces. Heat from the magma causes the crust on either side of the rifts to expand, forming the ridges. The ridge was discovered by Bruce Heezen and Marie Tharp in the 1950s. The discovery of this ridge led to the theory of seafloor spreading and general acceptance of Wegener's theory of continental drift. According to plate tectonics, this ridge runs along a divergent boundary.

This ridge is an oceanic rift that separates the North American Plate from the Eurasian Plate in the North Atlantic, and the South American Plate from the African Plate in the South Atlantic. The ridge actually sits on top of the mid-Atlantic rise which is a progressive bulge that also runs the length of the Atlantic Ocean with the ridge resting on the highest point of this linear bulge. This bulge is thought to be caused by upward convective forces in the asthenosphere pushing the oceanic crust and lithosphere.

This divergent boundary first formed in the Triassic period when a series of three-armed grabens coalesced on the supercontinent Pangaea to form the Ridge. Usually only two arms of any given three-armed graben become part of a divergent plate boundary. The failed arms are called aulacogens and the aulacogens of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge eventually became many of the large river valleys seen along the Americas, and Africa (including the Mississippi River, Amazon River and Niger River).



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Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:48:49 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Mid-atlantic_ridge_map.png)

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge (MAR) is a mid-ocean ridge, a divergent tectonic plate boundary located along the floor of the Atlantic Ocean. It separates the Eurasian Plate and North American Plate in the North Atlantic, and the African Plate from the South American Plate in the South Atlantic. The MAR extends from a junction with the Gakkel Ridge (Mid-Arctic Ridge) northeast of Greenland southward to the Bouvet Triple Junction in the South Atlantic. Although the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is mostly an underwater feature, portions of it have enough elevation to extend above sea level. The section of the ridge which includes the island of Iceland is also known as the Reykjanes Ridge.

Discovery

A ridge under the Atlantic Ocean was first inferred by Matthew Fontaine Maury in 1850. The ridge was discovered during the expedition of the HMS Challenger in 1872. A team of scientists on board, led by Charles Wyville Thomson, discovered a large rise in the middle of the Atlantic while investigating the future location for a transatlantic telegraph cable.[1] The existence of such a ridge was confirmed by sonar in 1925.[2] In the 1950s, mapping of the Earth’s ocean floors by Bruce Heezen, Maurice Ewing, Marie Tharp and others, revealed the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to have a strange bathymetry of valleys and ridges,[3] with its central valley being seismologically active and the epicentre of many earthquakes.[4][5] Ewing and Heezen discovered the ridge to be part of a 40,000-km-long essentially continuous system of mid-ocean ridges on the floors of all the Earth’s oceans. [6] The discovery of this world-wide ridge system led to the theory of seafloor spreading and general acceptance of Wegener's theory of continental drift.





Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:49:57 pm
Notable features along the ridge

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge includes a deep rift valley which runs along the axis of the ridge along nearly its entire length. This rift marks the actual boundary between adjacent tectonic plates, where magma from the mantle reaches the seafloor, erupting as lava and producing new crustal material for the plates.

Near the equator, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is dissected into the North Atlantic Ridge and the South Atlantic Ridge by the Romanche Trench, a narrow submarine trench with a maximum depth of 7,758 m (25,453 ft), one of the deepest locations of the Atlantic Ocean. This trench, however, is not regarded as the boundary between the North and South American Plates, nor the Eurasian and African Plates.

The ridge actually sits atop a geologic feature known as the Mid-Atlantic Rise which is a progressive bulge that also runs the length of the Atlantic Ocean with the ridge resting on the highest point of this linear bulge. This bulge is thought to be caused by upward convective forces in the asthenosphere pushing the oceanic crust and lithosphere.

This divergent boundary first formed in the Triassic period when a series of three-armed grabens coalesced on the supercontinent Pangaea to form the ridge. Usually only two arms of any given three-armed graben become part of a divergent plate boundary. The failed arms are called aulacogens, and the aulacogens of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge eventually became many of the large river valleys seen along the Americas and Africa (including the Mississippi River, Amazon River and Niger River).

The ridge is about 2,500 meters (8,200 ft) below sea level, while its flank is about 5,000 meters deeper.

Evidence of the ancestral Mid-Atlantic Ridge can be found at the Bay of Fundy on the Atlantic coast of North America between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia in Canada.



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:50:29 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Pangea_animation_03.gif)

The ridge was central in the breakup of Pangaea that began some 180 million years ago.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:51:27 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Mid_Atlantic_Ridge.jpg/800px-Mid_Atlantic_Ridge.jpg)

A fissure running along the Mid Atlantic Ridge in Iceland


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:52:25 pm
Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 02-16-2006 10:13 PM                   
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EVIDENCE FOR PLATE TECTONICS:

-Glacial Deposits match
-Seafloor spreads
-Polar flipping
-Ocean floor
-Shape of continents matches
-Position does not match
-Sonar scans
-Earthquakes and volcanoes
-Biological match
-Dating of sediment matches

--------------------
Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:55:12 pm
Carolyn Silver

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quote:
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Originally posted by Herr_Saltzman:
EVIDENCE FOR PLATE TECTONICS:

-Glacial Deposits match
-Seafloor spreads
-Polar flipping
-Ocean floor
-Shape of continents matches
-Position does not match
-Sonar scans
-Earthquakes and volcanoes
-Biological match
-Dating of sediment matches
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You could also add blind faith, lack of scientific intuition and EXTREME GULLIBILITY to that list!

What the hell is "polar flipping" anyway??
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:56:08 pm
Carolyn Silver

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   posted 02-16-2006 10:32 PM                       
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What is Atlantology?

It’s simple — Atlantology is the study of Atlantis.
In the early 1900’s, many of the respected sciences of today were still in kindergarten, but over time, trial and error, these struggling sciences evolved and established an acceptable framework for studying our universe and its contents.
Atlantology always was — and still is — a science of cooperation, in that scholars in many diverse fields, including anthropology, archaeology, astronomy, biology, cartography, classical literature, diffusionism, Egyptology, geography, geology, history, Hoerbiger’s Theory, linguistics, mathematics, metaphysics, mythology, oceanography, and religion, all contribute to the subject.
Unfortunately, early in its development, Atlantology was kidnapped by occultists and spiritualists, and the world of science, wrestling with their own growing pains, merely looked over their shoulders, shrugged, and kept single-mindedly moving forward. It was survival of the fittest in the big bad world, and the underdeveloped Atlantology was forced to remain in the dust for almost a century. It was well known that the study of Atlantology would endanger one’s reputation as a scientist.
Atlantologists must critically examine even the obviously fantastic ideas which have no scientific basis, in order to establish whether or not they contain; however small, a grain of truth. It must be remembered that in ancient times, much knowledge formed part of the ritual mysteries of the initiated and was handed down by work of mouth as secret teaching. It is possible that some fragments of this esoteric knowledge, even if greatly distorted and modernized in form, has survived to this day.
Yet Atlantology is a science — not a science as an already acquired fact — but a science as an aim towards which scientific researches are being directed. Among Atlantologists, coordination and cooperation among specialists of many diverse disciplines is essential and absolutely imperative.
The Method of Atlantology involves the establishment of an agreed upon set of problems regarding Atlantis; a method of research; and the kinds of sought after proofs or arguments in the solution to the problems. Early Atlantologists agreed that research should be directed towards:
1. Proof of the historical existence of Atlantis, and evaluate the possibilities of direct archaeological knowledge about Atlantis.
2. Proof of the geography and geology of Atlantis; the time and circumstances of its disappearance; and the effects of its disappearance.
3. Proof of the level of civilization attained by Atlantean inhabitants and their influence on the remaining continents.
Top of section. Top of page.
(These points are discussed in detail in the following articles).
Atlantis (AT #7) 1949 April/May Vol. 2 No. 1: A Scientific Approach To The Study Of Atlantis by Father P.N. Zammit
Atlantis (AT #69) 1959 October/November Vol. 12 No. 6: Scientific Atlantology. Its Paths And Problems by Dr. N. Th. Zhirov

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:56:50 pm
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   posted 02-16-2006 10:34 PM                       
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The objective of Sykes’ Atlantis Research Center was to investigate the probability of the lost land mass of Atlantis as having been the source from which was drawn the fundamental cultures of the two hemispheres. The Research Center was founded in Cairo during World War II, then moved to Naples, then Rome, then London in 1947, and eventually found its permanent home in Brighton, England. By 1970, the Research Center Group Council overseas members included scholars in Austria, Germany, Denmark, South Africa, Holland, Italy, Sweden, Poland, USA, and USSR.
The Atlantis Research Center had a circulating library, and Sykes encouraged readers to send questions on tape and he would reply back on tape via the Phono Post service ($.50 for a small reel and $1 for a large reel). Sykes appealed to readers for press cuttings because even with the aid of a Press Cutting Agency, it was not possible to cover the wide fields of interest of the societies.
Over the years, the Atlantis Research Center attempted to answer the when, who, why, what, where, and how questions pertaining to Atlantis.
When did Atlantis begin? Sykes estimated that the culture began about BC 18,000 — coinciding with the end of the two previous contemporary cultures of Tiahuanaco and Ethiopia. Both of these cultures perished in disasters of the classical pattern — missiles raining from the heavens; earthquakes on a vast scale; floods and fire; famine and disease. The development of Atlantis was helped by the fact that practically the whole of Europe and North America were covered with ice sheets as much as one mile thick; thus, human activities were concentrated in the equatorial belt, with Atlantis lying in a favorable position in the middle of it.
Where was Atlantis? Atlantis was a land mass situated between the West Indies and the Canaries, and stretched from the Azores to Ascension Island, with a possible extension northwards to Greenland. Atlantis must have been about one-thousand miles at the widest part, and the entire area of the land mass was about one-million-and-a-half square miles. Plato specifically located the land mass in the center of the Atlantic Ocean beyond the Pillars of Hercules.
Who were the Atlanteans? At one time, Sykes believed that civilization commenced with the Atlanteans. Its population appear to have enjoyed a mixed Stone Age and Bronze Age civilization. They knew sufficient astronomy to have an accurate calendar; they were probably the first to conceive of the zodiacs; they mummified their dead; worshipped a water god called Poseidon to whom bulls were sacrificed; and were somehow connected to Sun worship and later Moon worship. The Atlanteans also had knowledge of building and agriculture, and at some time during their evolution, they developed a system of hieroglyphics for dates and astronomical events. The Atlantean form of writing did not seem to be in any way even a remote ancestor of writing as we know it, which was evolved by the Phoenicians as an adaptation of Assyrian cuneiform. Sykes speculated that the dominant race of the Atlanteans were reddish in color, medium height, and had slightly egg shaped heads with sloping foreheads. Certain of the Atlantean customs have survived until today such as the couvade system (the husband goes into purdah on the birth of the child); artificial cranial deformation (creating egg shaped skulls by means of bandages or boards still exists from Africa to British Columbia); and Cyclopean architecture (found from Egypt to Peru and the Baltic Coast to Stonehenge). When Atlantis was submerged, some people migrated to Central America, up the Amazon to the border of Peru, Bolivia, and Columbia. Others took the eastern route and crossed the Sahara Sea to the lower reaches of the Nile. As survivors struggled in new lands, the advance toward higher civilization and technology advanced much slower in some areas than others.
When was Atlantis submerged? Easily answered. If the loss coincides with the capture of our present moon, then the answer is the time when there was no moon. There was no moon in the period between the disintegration of the pre-Luna Abyssinian satellite and the capture of our present satellite. On astronomical grounds, the date of the catastrophe is fixed at November 18, BC 9540 or 9542 (the two year difference is due to the fact that astronomers calculate elapsed time on a slightly different basis to the rest of us). According to Plato, the capture of the present satellite occurred 9,000 years before Solon; thus, 11,500 years ago. Taking into account investigations into the origin of the Mayan calendar, then the date is 11,500 years before present — approximately BC 9500. Soviet oceanographers have reported a date of BC 10,540.
Why and how was Atlantis submerged? Sykes’ July 1967 article in Atlantis Called A Plethora Of Causes offers, “At the moment we have several different points of view, ranging from the comet hypothesis from Professor Kamienski; the asteroid hypothesis of Professor Boneff; the moon capture theory of Hoerbiger and Hinzpeter; and the stellar intruder idea of Winans et al. But these are not of necessity contradictory. The passage of the comet may have been linked with the approach of the moon, the fall of the asteroid with both, and the general disturbance with an intrusive visitor in our Solar System.”
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:57:49 pm
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   posted 02-16-2006 10:35 PM                       
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The following is from a journal article--

A University Chair In Atlantology?
In 1966, C.C.M. Hardy endeavored to translate Atlantean research into a methodological form suitable for the setting up of a University Chair either in the USA or Western Europe. Sykes felt that the Soviets would be most likely. Hardy proposed a basic outline which consisted of the systematic examination of ancient records (including myth, legend, and folklore) and modern records (including known Egyptian, Hindu, Hebraic, and other religious material) for clues, and the search for archaeological and geological evidence, which would lead to the preparation of a final record covering both geophysical and related historic events in chronological sequence.
Sykes stated in The Hardy Hypothesis in the March 1966 issue of Atlantis, “We must face up to the fact that Atlantis is unacceptable to most universities simply because it demands a readjustment of academic ideas which is outside their capacity or desire. The next point is that while it is too sensational for the scholastic world, it is not sufficiently so for the popular press except on rare occasions... until that situation can be remedied there is no prospect of the Hardy idea finding root.”
Sykes listed four main reasons why Atlantis was not accepted as historical fact:
1) Greek stories of Gods, heroes, and men are considered religious fiction instead of distorted versions of real history.
2) No one wants to rewrite large chunks of prehistory so there is unwillingness among scholars to recast ideas on the historical background of cultures in the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, and its adjacent continents of Africa, the Americas, and Europe.
3) Academic circles do not want to deal with those in the occult fields.
4) Western Science is overspecialized so important connections between sciences are not made.
Have times changed?
Is the world open to giving Atlantology a second chance?
You be your own judge.
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 10:59:07 pm
Carolyn Silver

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HIGHLIGHTS IN EARLY ATLANTOLOGY
Back in Sykes’ day and still today, the biggest struggle for Atlantology is the fact that the science is faced with the challenge of having to prove the existence of its own subject. Over the past century, many gifted academics travelled widely diverse roads to solve this basic problem, but none of them ever quite found a clear path over this troublesome hurdle. Sykes was equally unsuccessful, but somewhat comforted by the knowledge that he was always in good company. All over the world, there were many intelligent, adventurous explorers making startling discoveries — directly or indirectly related — to the famous lost continent.
Plato’s Dialogues Timaeus and Critias, written between 429 and 347 BC, and the more than six-hundred flood legends around the world, are not proven to be of historical value. Unfortunately, the only historic document about Atlantis is Plato. Plato was accused, beginning with his pupil Aristotle, of inventing Atlantis for propaganda purposes. The fantastic incredibility of the location of a continent or island in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, and the presence upon this land mass of a civilized people while simultaneously the rest of humanity was still in a state of savagery, was a big pill for disbelievers to swallow.
For quite a long time, scientists investigated the possibility that North Africa, including the Sahara Desert, formed part of or was contemporary with Atlantis. In 1814, Ali Bey El Abbassi (or Domingo Badia y Leyblich) wrote a book on The Ancient Island of Atlantis and the Possibility of an Interior Sea in the Center of Africa.
The discovery of America with its gigantic ruined cities in Yucatan, Peru, and the Andean Highlands fired the early Atlantologists to much research and the writing of books — a process which dwindled until the middle of the last century when Ignatius Donnelly arrived on the scene.
Minnesota congressman, Ignatius Donnelly, author of the 1882 overnight best seller Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, is known as the Father of the Science of Atlantology. In 1883, he published Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel. Donnelly was a Republican Minnesota Congressman with an encyclopedic mind who studied law but preferred poetry. Unlike other members of Congress, Donnelly logged in many hours in the Library of Congress, and a short time into retirement he produced his first book Atlantis: The Antediluvian World. The best response to the book was not in America but in the United Kingdom. Four-time Prime Minister of Britain, William Ewart Gladstone, wrote to Donnelly to congratulate him on his book and in 1882, Gladstone asked the Cabinet to produce funds for the sending of a ship to trace out the outline of Atlantis. Gladstone failed to secure the necessary support from the Treasury.
Donnelly’s time was not ripe for the unreserved acceptance of the hypothesis of a land mass suddenly lost in the Atlantic Ocean, chiefly because geophysical theories were unable to supply physical presuppositions for such a loss. Donnelly’s books did not evoke new research but provided the blueprints for the general method of study of Atlantology. The science of Atlantology was fundamentally hampered from progress until Hoerbiger and Sykes, who offered theories which could convincingly explain the sudden catastrophic loss of Atlantis.
In 1907, Etienne Felix Berlioux wrote a series of papers entitled Morocco and the Atlanteans for the Academy of Sciences at Lyons.
Professor Wladimir Bogachev was a distinguished geologist who may be described as the Father of Atlantology in Russia. In 1910, Bogachev was a lecturer at the University of Dorpat, Estonia, and in 1912, he published a brochure Atlantida, the first work on the geology of Atlantis to be printed.
Between 1910 and 1932, Leo Frobenius, the famous German anthropologist, made no less than ten African voyages. During an excavation in Nigeria in the palace compound of the chief of the ancient Ife culture, he discovered outstanding works of art in the form of remarkable bronze heads and terra cottas — portraits of individuals which displayed an astonishing degree of realism not found elsewhere in African culture. Frobenius believed the Ife to be an important culture which succumbed to climatic conditions.
On October 20, 1912, Paul Schliemann’s sensational article on Atlantis was published in the New York American, a publication of Hearst Press. Paul claimed that his famous grandfather, Heinrich Schliemann, began investigating the myth of Atlantis in 1883, seven years before his death, and Paul had inherited Heinrich’s confidential research, as well as funding to continue the work. Young Schliemann’s complete silence after 1918 confirmed the view generally held that he must have died during World War I. The article was believed by many to be a hoax, as not one single member of the Schliemann family uttered a word either in favor or against the story.
Pierre Termier’s Atlantide of 1913 and La Derive des Continents of 1924, were two of the most important scientific works on the subject in the early half of the century.
It was Pierre Benoit’s novel Atlantide, first published in 1920, which stimulated many expeditions to Africa. Benoit’s novel told of the adventures of some French officers seeking for traces of Atlantis in the wastelands of North Africa, where they encountered the legendary Atlantean Princess Antinea.
In 1920, Alfred Watkins, an expert photographer and inventor of the Watkins Exposure Meter, began noting on 1” and 6” Ordnance Survey maps of the British Isles, the numerous alignments of ancient sites. Watkins concluded that, before Roman times, members of an unknown race accurately surveyed the land, leaving markstones and circular mounds, whose alignments came to be known as leys or straight tracks, ranging in length from three to one-hundred miles. In 1927, Watkins, founder of the Straight Track Club (1926-1949), published The Ley Hunters Manual, a ninety page book containing one-hundred-and-twenty photographs and site diagrams of markstones and their ley lines.
Lewis Spence once said, “I still assert with all the emphasis at my command that unless the iron discipline of scientific detachment be recognized in the consideration of such questions as the Atlantean, its study might as well been abandoned. For me there are two Atlantises — the Atlantis of fantasy and imagination, and that of reality. Sometimes these ideas appear to fuse, at others they are as far apart as poles.”
Spence’s 1924 The Problem of Atlantis and 1925 Atlantis in North America evoked interest in the subject in the Anglo Saxon world. Spence also formed his Atlantis Research Center and published Atlantis Quarterly, which closed down after five issues.
In 1925, F. Butavand wrote La Veritable Histoire de l’Atlantide, in support of his thesis that Atlantis had originally been a series of islands, now submerged, lying off the Tunisian coast — the site where Carthage and Utica were later founded and built.
On June 24, 1926, Paul Le Cour and Roger Devigne created the Society for Atlantic Studies at the Sorbonne in France. Shortly afterwards, Les Amis d’Atlantis broke up into two Atlantis study groups: one based on Le Cour’s mystical approach; and the other on Devigne’s more pragmatic approach.
In 1926, R.M. (Rene-Maurice) Gattefosse, Jean Gattefosse, and Claudius Roux published the famous bibliography of Atlantis Bibliographie de L’Atlantide.
In 1927, the Caribbean explorer F.A. Mitchell-Hedges discovered the famous, exquisitely carved, eleven pound, life-size skull with a moveable jaw, cut from a block of rock crystal, in a Mayan temple in Lubaantun, British Honduras. Microscopic examination of the surface for grinding patterns showed no evidence of tools. Rock crystal was believed by the ancients to be frozen holy water that never melted, a form of supernatural white magic, and the flaws in the crystal to be the souls of a host of guardian angels.
In 1929, Professor Paul Borchardt of Muich, a geographer and explorer, claimed to have found Plato’s Atlantis at a North African site in the Mediterranean Sea between the Schott el Dejrid and the Gulf of Gabes, and aided by Dr. Albert Herrmann of the University of Berlin, assigned the whole of the Atlantis story to a small locality near Tunis.
Professor Hans Pettersson, leader of the Swedish Albatross expedition, which extracted hundreds of samples from the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in the 1930’s, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was mainly above water 15,000 years ago. A similar conclusion was reached by the German Gauss expedition, which sounded the Romanche Deep in 1901. In 1936, Maurice Piggot’s famous U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey of deep core soundings showed definitively that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge reached above the surface of the sea 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Different sediment deposits on each side of the Ridge showed that the Ridge once separated two currents, and there are heavy deposits of volcanic ash on both sides which, according to carbon dating, were deposited 12,000 years ago.
In Italy, it was inevitable that Italian interest in Atlantis should be focused on the Tyrrhenian Sea and North Africa, rather than the distant Atlantic. Dr. Nicola Russo, Chairman of the Italian Atlantis Society and editor of the its journal Atlantide in Italia, which appeared from 1930 to 1932, wrote several papers on the subject. Unfortunately, the Society’s activities were suspended in the immediate pre-war years of World War II due to the pressure of domestic politics; however, in 1956, interest in Atlantis was revived in Italy with the formation of the Centro Culturale Atlantide in Genoa. The group published La Voce d’Atlantide edited by Gianni Belli of Genoa from 1956 to 1958. In 1963, the Italian Atlantis was published in Genoa by Mr. Leonardo Bettini, a member of the Atlantis Research Center.
In 1933, Lieutenant Brenans of the French Camel Corps discovered the magnificent Tassili petroglyphs in the middle of the Sahara Desert. In 1959, Henry Lhote published The Search for the Tassili Frescoes, the Rock Paintings of the Sahara, the story of the sixteen months spent by the author and two different teams searching for and copying some of the most wonderful rock paintings in the world. The vast size of some of the frescoes show the importance of ritual art in the life of the nomadic people in the days before the Sahara had been turned into a desert.
In 1948 in French North Africa, a new organization came into existence called L’Atlantide de Demain, headed by Amedee Guiraud. The group published a quarterly journal En L’Atlantide. The objective of the new group was to establish a link between North West Africa and Atlantis, and to bring the whole area back to the conditions of fertility and prosperity which existed in the time of Atlantis.
In 1948, Professor N. Boneff, head of the Department of Astronomy at Sofia University and member of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, issued Une Application de la Theorie des Marees au Probleme de L’Atlantide, an important mathematical contribution related to the destruction of Atlantis.
On November 17, 1949, Pastor Jurgen Spanuth wrote a letter to Sykes to notify him that the race for Atlantis was finally over. Spanuth was certain he had located the remains of Plato’s lost continent five miles south of Helgoland in the North Sea. Top
Professor Rene Malaise published Atlantis en Geologisk Verkzighet in Stockholm in 1950.
In 1951, the Cuba Institute of Archaeology debated the possibility that Cuba was once in some way related to Atlantis. They concluded that the island’s prehistoric caves with petroglyphs and astronomical symbols, and a staircase leading to a rudimentary observatory in ***** del Este, may support the theory.
In April 1952, scientists reported the discovery of three-hundred human skeletons in a deep cave in the Pyrenean district of southwest France. There was a stalagmite growing out of a hipbone, verifying the calculated dating of up to 15,000 years old.
In August 1952, Dr. Daniel Ruzo found himself on the Marcahuasi Plateau, eighty kilometers from Lima, Peru. The plateau, showing traces of prehistoric works of defence, habitation, and hydrology, boasted hundreds of gigantic sculptures of men and beasts, including animals which never existed in America, carved about 10,000 years ago. Many of the sculptures could only be seen clearly at certain times of day under certain light conditions. The Egyptian god Thueris, a female hippopotamus and symbol of fertility, was represented five times at Marcahuasi.
The July 1955 journal of the Soviet Academy of Sciences, Priroda, contained an article by Professor E.F. Hagemeister of Tallin who, based on investigation into the disintegration of ionium made at various depths of the Atlantic Ocean, stated that the Gulf Stream had only come into existence 12,000 years ago. Hagemeister concluded that the end of the European Ice Age, the appearance of the Gulf Stream, and the submersion of Atlantis, all took place at the same time. In the same issue, V.A. Obroutchev of the Soviet Academy, leading authority on the civilizations of the Gobi Desert, supported his colleague’s theory based on current geological findings.
In 1956, Zaki Saad of the Egyptian Department of Antiquities reported discoveries in the neighborhood of Cairo, showing that the then capital of Egypt was a flourishing metropolis of about a million people before the First Dynasty, and had roots stretching back at least two thousand years before then.
On January 18, 1956, Dr. Michael Kamienski, Professor of Astronomy, gave a lecture called Tragedy of Atlantis-Poseidia in one of the largest halls of Krakow University in Poland. When over five-hundred people showed up but only three-hundred could squeeze into the room, the gracious lecturer repeated his performance the following week. Kamienski dated Halley’s Comet back to BC 9542, the time of the submersion of Atlantis, and hypothesized that some portion of the tail or even the head of Halley’s Comet broke off and plunged into the western Atlantic Ocean. Kamienski continued his researches into comets Haley and Wolf (named the Wolf Kamienski Comet in his honor in 1971), until his retirement in 1963.
The unique calendrical system of the inhabitants of Tiahuanaco, immortalized in great stone gateways and Idols, accurately fit in with Hoerbiger’s Lunar Capture Theory, as described by the German scientist Edmund Kiss after his visit to Tiahuanaco in 1929 and in great detail in 1956, in H. S. Bellamy and Peter Allan’s book The Calendar of Tiahuanaco. In 1957, both Allan and Bellamy received Honorary Professorships at the University of La Paz in recognition of their work.
Sykes’ interest in the archaeology of the Caribbean began with Horace Gouvieva’s underwater find of stone columns off the coast of Bermuda in 1958, and the discovery of a sunken temple off the island of Andros by Dr. Manson Valentine and Dimitri Rebikoff, a Fort Lauderdale oceanographer and underwater explorer. Valentine later discovered more underwater remains off North Bimini.
In 1959, Arthur Louis Joquel II stated, “The legend of the lost continent of Atlantis is the most fascinating story which man has ever known. The theme of the great island in the Atlantic Ocean, which was destroyed with all of its people and its wealth in a single day and night of earthquake and flood, has for several thousand years intrigued everyone who heard it. Heated argument and debate has raged over whether Atlantis ever really existed or not, and if so, where and how long ago. Over two-thousand separate books and articles have been written about it; there have been Atlantean Societies and magazines. Several motion pictures have been based on it, and expeditions have searched for it on sea and land.”
In 1960, Professor Angelos G. Galanopoulos, a seismologist at Athens University, announced that the Santorini volcanic explosion of BC 1400 destroyed the civilization of Minoan Crete, and the island contained the remnants of Atlantis . Mr. James V. Mavor of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute supported the theory in his 1969 book Voyage to Atlantis. Sykes thought the Santorini theory to be purely political, and designed to prove to the world that Greek influence of the Eastern Mediterranean antedated that of the Turks.
In the July 1960 Ohio Archaeologist, Carl B. Compton’s article America’s First People, declared that the relatively new and amazingly fast-developing radiocarbon dating method had pushed back the date for early man in America to 40,000 years or more.
In 1960, after three decades of disagreement, Sykes’ research finally supported the readings of the famous American prophet, Edgar Cayce (1877-1945), that Bimini was likely one of the best places to find records of Atlantis. Sykes corresponded with Edgar Cayce by letter in 1935 and 1936 about the Bimini complex. Cayce’s readings are preserved at the Association of Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.) in Virginia Beach, which is also the present home of the Egerton Sykes Collection. Besides pointing to Bimini first, all seven-hundred Cayce readings on the subject of Atlantis admirably balance Atlantis and Diffusion. Cayce’s words also offer a step toward a greater comprehension of what Atlantis really means to humankind. The Cayce material teaches that philosophy, theology, and science are not like oil and water, but have an affinity for each other, and are indispensable to one another. Cayce makes it clear that philosophy and science, as separate ways of thinking, will not stand the test of life and experience. Unfortunately, the majority of conventional scientists dismiss Cayce’s unique methodology without a second thought.
Professor Dimitry G. Panov was a Doctor of Geographical Science and the editor of Zhirov’s book Atlantida printed in Moscow in 1964. In 1961, Panov published The Origin of the Continents and the Oceans (State Geographical Publications, Moscow), in which he stated his views on the history and geological structure of the world’s oceans, and mentioned his belief in the reality of Atlantis.
On April 22, 1964, Dr. N. Th.Zhirov read his paper, The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis , to the Leningrad House of Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours.
In 1965, an Italian expert on North Africa, Alf Bajocco, published The Early Inhabitants of the Canary Islands, in which he considered that the original inhabitants of the Canary Islands may have been of Berber origin, and the Berbers, the original inhabitants of Northwest Africa, were descendants of the Atlanteans.
In his book of 1970, Atlantology: Basic Problems, Dr. N. Th. Zhirov, Professor of Chemical Sciences in the Soviet Union, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge’s Dolphin Ridge, was above sea level in BC 10,000. The book is one of the most serious studies ever done to produce geological proof that Atlantis really existed. There are over eight-hundred references cited in the thirty-five page bibliography, including early Russian classical sources. Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents; structure of mountains and submarine ridges; seismic processes; cosmological influences; tectonic origins; the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna; and changes produced by the Gulf Stream.
In 1972, Ludwick Zajdler published Atlantyda (Warsaw, 3rd edition). Interest in Poland was so strong that there were 30,000 copies of third edition of the book run off, a figure which equaled all of the books on Atlantis published in Britain and the United States during the last twenty years.
The study of Atlantis has never been a mainstream occupation, yet dedicated researchers continue to explore and patiently seek that one crucial discovery which will finally prove the existence of the legendary Atlantis.

Scientific Atlantology and the Egerton Sykes Collection (at the A.R.E. Library at Virginia Beach, Va.)
Egerton Sykes' personal library -- the result of sixty years of collecting -- travelled across the Atlantic Ocean to the Association for Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.) in Virginia Beach, where it resides today in the third study carrel of the A.R.E. Library as The Egerton Sykes Collection. Guaranteed to intrigue, the Egerton Sykes Collection, which includes over 6000 books (volumes in fifteen different languages on a dazzling variety of topics), magazines, pamphlets, slides, tapes, personal letters, unpublished manuscripts, fascinating photographs, newspaper clippings, and Sykes personal card index, is an enchanting treasure and most definitely worth a visit. The Collection has never been appraised by a rare book dealer and could not be duplicated at any price. Check out the A.R.E. at http://www.edgarcayce.org.


http://www.seachild.net/products225399.html
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 11:08:57 pm
Vladimir Pakhomov


"There is no remembrance of former things;
neither shall there be any remembrance of things
that are to come with those that shall come after."

- Ecclesiastes, Bible.

On requests my friends and for all, who is interested Atlantis, its powerful civilization, I place here, in the abbreviated form, the fragment from one chapters of my book "The Message to the Unborn".

This article is based on the data received from decoding of the ancient cryptogram. To find any conformity to the information contained in the cryptogram among kept on all continents, isolated remainders of the ancient myths, architecture, sculptures, figures, national clothes and so on, is very difficult. There is an impression, as though whose hand diligently and everywhere has erased all mentions of a great civilization existing on the Earth, preceded of our civilizations and exceeding our civilization.

Any story about Atlantis begins with mentioning of two dialogues of Plato - "Timeaus" and "Critias". I will bring here those citations from his dialogues, which in the most degrees help me to identify one of the images received from decoding ancient cryptogram. I was interested by any hints about arrangement Atlantis, quantity of its islands, their size, form and mutual position. Because I have received a map, but I did not know, that is represented on it.







Plato (427-347 B.C.) ancient Greek philosopher, alongside with Pythagoras, Parmenides and Socrates — ancestor of European philosophy; the chapter of Academy, a school of science and philosophy.
In 366 B.C. in Academy appears Aristotle and remains there up to death Plato. The family of the father Plato, Ariston, on legend, ascended to mythical king Codrus; among ancestors of the mother, Perictione, — lawmaker Solon, one of seven wise men of Greece.
Solon (639– 559 B.C.), Athenian statesman, lawgiver and poet. Occurred from outstanding family Codrus, at one time reigned in Athens. In twenty years' age Plato has acquainted with Socrates, began regularly to visit his conversations. In 387 visits Southern Italy, a native land of the most ancient recorded laws.

Plato writes:

"I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.

Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side." /Critias/



(1 stadia - approximately 193 meters)

Unfortunately, in the different editions of the same dialogue of Plato there are very essential differences in the translation. It changes the sense. For example:



"From the sea and up to middle of island, there was a plain..."



Compare these two translations and be convinced, that they are not compatible. I compared four different translations!

In Greek mythology, Poseidon - one of the gods of the Olympic, the god of the sea, the son of Cronus and Rhea, brother of Zeus and Hades, with which he has divided domination above the world. The Trident of Poseidon - certain ancient fetish, vested by magic power.



"And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus."



This not that titan Atlas, which support in far west a firmament, in punishment for war with the gods. In the revolt of the Titans against the gods, Atlas stormed the heavens and Zeus punished him for this deed by condemning him to forever bear the earth and the heavens upon his shoulders.
In mythology, Poseidon - the father of set of children, among which was also giant Orion.

In Plato's time, ancient Greeks used the name of Gadirus for the city which was situated where modern Cadiz stands now, on the Atlantic coast of the Pyrenean Peninsula, not far from Gibraltar.

Diodor of Sicily in his "Historical Library" writes about Phoenicians as follows:

"...started going beyond the Pillars of Hercules to the sea called the Ocean.
And shortly built a city called Gadirus on the peninsula in Europe,
close to the strait situated at the Pillars..."




Let's look how looks the ancient image of Poseidon referring to times of Plato. I think, that this image is only one link in a long series of reproductions of the ancient original and symbolical performance of Atlantis and its famous mountains. So the art keeps memory of mankind.




Look at the image of Poseidon and his trident. What origin of the trident of Poseidon? The trident of Poseidon accompanies all his images and sculptures. Why Poseidon constantly hold this trident?
In many languages and at many folk the sign of trident designates the mountains. The trident symbolically represents three mountain tops towering above the sea. These three mountain tops were seen from afar. When the ship approach to Atlantis, then because of horizon, as though from a water, appear these three mountain tops. Trident of the potentate of the seas - Atlantis, its largest island Poseidia.
Picture it is got such, main island Poseidia (the island of Poseidon) and beside towering from water three mountain tops of two smaller islands (the trident). This trident was beautiful, there was is seen from afar and was shown the good landmark for the ships.
All this archipelago and with opposite the parties similarly looks. The appearance because of horizon of three mountain tops spoke to the seafarers, that the ship comes nearer to capital of potentates of the seas.

Poseidon
The Roman marble copy from the Greek original, 4 centuries B.C., Rome, the Vatican museums.




Now we shall look, that writes Plato about the sizes and form of islands.



"For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia." /Timeaus/



In this fragment Plato writes and about Atlantis (in which many do not trust) and about the American continent (in which difficultly to not believe). Though in times of Plato, on modern presentations, equally were not known and Atlantis and America.



"...which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean." /Critias/



Even if we presume that Asia here stands for what is now called the Near East - just a small part of the Asian continent, and Libya - for a small part of North Africa, that nevertheless was the large island.

Now we shall look at characteristic attributes of the island.



"The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north.
The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist,..." /Critias/



The plain by the size 2000 on 3000 stades is approximately 370 x 550 kilometers.



"It [plain] was for the most part rectangular and oblong, and where falling out of the straight line followed the circular ditch." /Critias/



Perhaps, that it is everything, that it is possible to learn from dialogues of Plato about the island or islands of Atlantis. Now we will look that else possible use, as certificates of existence this legendary land.






It is meaningful to pay attention and to that memory of the missed ground, which the people have not kept, but the nature has kept. For example, the study of ways of seasonal migration of birds can much tell.




Picture of the artist GrevKafi



"AND THE BIRDS RETURN HOME..."



The Birds, annually flying from Europe in South America, always long whirls on certain places in Atlantic ocean. Probably they still had genetic memory that earlier in these places there was a land, where they grew nestlings and returned in Europe...




There are also other fragments of the kept information about Atlantis.








In 1665, German priest - jesuit, Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680), has published "Mundus Subterraneus", massive book, which include the reproduction of ancient Egyptian map of Atlantis. Map was taken away Romans from Egypt, probably after completion of rule Cleopatra. Cleopatra was the last pharaonic ruler of Egypt before it fell to Rome in 30 B.C.

Here it would be desirable to add, that Athanasius Kircher was the outstanding man, which compare with Leonardo da Vinci. And to acquaint with his works extremely interesting and useful.






Map of Atlantis from «Mundus Subterraneus» of Athanasius Kircher (1665)




Inscriptions on the map: America, Atlantic ocean, Atlantis, Africa, Spain.



Situs
Infula Atlantis, a
Mari ohm abforpte ex
mento Egyptiorum et
Platonis deferptio.
This Latin inscription on the corner of the map of Atlantis translates:

"Site of Atlantis now beneath the sea according to the believes of the Egyptians and the description of Plato."




On a main island of Atlantis the arrow in a circle (compass) indicating on a north is drawn.
The Egyptians believed, that the south, instead of north, is on top of the world. It was meaningful, because it was a direction whence flows of Nile. And as Nile was very important for them, its source should be on top of the world. Probably there is also other explanation to this fact.
To restore habitual for us a kind "north on top" it was necessary to turn the map. Therefore image I have turned on 180° (Africa on the right, America at the left, north on top).






Famous "the Sleeping Prophet" - Edgar Cayce in "readings" informs such names of three islands of Atlantis: Poseidia, Aryan and Og. It is possible to tell these names already became standard. Read two citations:



"(Q) What were the principal islands called at the time of the final destruction?
(A) Poseidia and Aryan [?], and Og [?].

"The origin of the Atlantean continent is obscured in the misty period of prehistory. Indeed, even psychic records are hard to understand, for the earth's surface has changed many times during even this cycle.
When man entered this earth as man, Atlantis was a great continent lying in what is now the Atlantic Ocean between the Gulf of Mexico and the Mediterranean Sea.
In area it can be compared with what is now Europe and Russia. The north and south poles did not occupy their present positions, nor were the land surfaces now existent then above water except as follows: The eastern seaboard was the coastal region of Atlantis; the region of the Carpathian mountains and the Mongolian Desert were habitable, as was the northern part of what is now Africa, as was the southeastern portion of Atlantis.
The Andean coast of South America were covered by water, while the plains of Utah, Nevada, and Arizona were above sea level."



So, what is possible to tell about Atlantis proceeding from the adduced information? This there were three islands, with standing out three mountain tops. In average part of island there was approximately square-wave valley locked with north by mountains.

Well, drawing of an unknown land received from decryption of ancient cryptogram satisfies to all these conditions.






ATTENTION!
For the first time You can see the present map of Atlantis!
This mathematical model enables to consider Atlantis from different directions,
is constructed under the data, which was left to us by a Great Civilization.

Now you have the exact image of Atlantis and you should it find!






This image gives the exact enough and full information for search of the lost land and our history. The islands are extended on a line from northeast on a southwest. Large island Poseidia very long. The data, available at me, allow to make the assumption, that its length was approximately 2000 kilometers. It corresponds to the description of Plato. But I do not know an exact scale of the image.

The general view from above reminds huge caldera of volcano.

Sea level I has chosen approximately, as I do not know while what it was. If a sea level to lower, all three islands will merge in one island of annular structure.

I study this map many years. By search of conformity of this map to a modern kind of a surface of the Earth, it is possible a map to turn, to overturn, to scale and so on. I can not tell precisely, what scale of this map, in what projection it is made. Therefore possible to do the different assumptions about sizes of these islands. It can islands on the river. For example, on old maps of Nile possible to find the similar islands. And it can all surface of the Earth is represented what it was before catastrophe. That is, it "the map of world ". In this case, it is possible to notice, that smallest "island" reminds by the form Antarctic continent.

The mathematical model allows to look at Atlantis and on the part of. That the seafarers swimming up to Atlantis from northeast saw.




The view of Atlantis from the sea (approximately from northeast)



It is a kind from the narrowest side. At the left - large island, on the right - two islands of the smaller size. On a large island the large mountain ridge is visible, behind which there is that valley about which wrote Plato. The inclination for horizon -1°, simulates appearance of Atlantis bbecause of horizon at approach to it on the sea.

The kind of Atlantis from the sea shows sense of the sculptural images of Poseidon with his trident. Itself Poseidon symbolizes a main large island Poseidia, and the trident reminds a kind of two other islands, appearing because of horizon, with three mountain tops. Even the form of the tines of trident copies the form of these mountains. They tilted in the different sides from central tine. I was very glad to find out this symbolical similarity with the restored image of Atlantis.

Where such relief exists on the Earth? Probably somebody saw something similar? It would be interesting to exchange results of search.






The Great pyramids of Egypt by the kind remind mountains of Atlantis and probably it is not random similarity.






When I have looked at model of Atlantis approximately from northeast and the outlines of mountains have reminded me great pyramids of Egypt, I have recollected, that three great pyramids are located on a line from northeast on a southwest. And it already two analogies.

I constantly search among all kept monuments of ancient civilizations for such connections, analogies and hints. It allows better to understand the main document - "THE MESSAGE TO THE UNBORN". And on the other hand, the Message allows better to understand sense and interrelation of kept monuments, myths and legends of ancient civilizations in all angles of the Earth. It has enabled, for example, to restore an initial kind of a great Sphinx on the Giza plateau. So, as it look else before alteration by pharaoh and destructions by time. His kind is unusual and is beautiful, such will not think up.



to be continued ...


Ancient hieroglyphs, Temple in Abydos, Egypt.

http://www.geocities.com/dominorus/atlantis.html


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on July 30, 2008, 11:12:09 pm
Isis*

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What to look for.

There may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed (Plato citation).
Hot water sources and fountains.
To be outside of the « Pillars of Hercules ».
Minimum size to have a plain of +/- 500 Kms by +/- 200 Kms including the surrounding mountains, able to feed a population having an army of 1'200'000 men.
Mountains on the northern part.
Volcano's or volcanic activity.
Antarctica and Greenland were covered with ice for at least 100'000 years or more, and cannot have been possible places.
What is not there any longer.
Hunan constructions like houses and roads.
The richer and softer parts of the soil (Plato citation).
Anything unable to resist to earthquakes of a magnitude 8 or higher.
The Atlantic Ocean Floor.

Image of the Atlantic Ocean in special coloring in order to show the profile of the Atlantic Ocean floor. (Blue color is proportional to depth)

We can clearly distinguish something like a huge ridge or a small continental plate between Spain and the Northern American Continent.

Further The North Atlantic Ocean floor looks like to be lowered from the line Ireland-New Foundland until the line Liberia-French Ginee. It seems to me that the all-over depth of the Northern part of the Atlantic Ocean is a lot lower than the all-over depth of the Southern part of the Atlantic Ocean as well as the all-over depth of the other oceans. Thus considering that this part of the ocean could have been lowered by some cataclysmic event.

This picture has been used to create the correction data which is used to put the all-over depth of the Northern Atlantic back to the corresponding all-over depth of the remaining oceans. Then the other oceans are only deep there where the continental plates run into each other but not there where the continental plates run away from each other. It is still possible that the southern part was lowered to, but I did not find any visible sign of this, besides the Cogo River canyon, which runs until a depth of 2'000 meters, but it is the only one. Than in case of a lowering of the southern part of the Atlantic ocean, the South American Amazone river should have had a similar canyon to, but I did not find any sign of one.



The Madeira region.

The Madeira ridge, this region could have been above the water level in the past, since constructions have been seen on the Ampére sea-mount.

However it looks to me to close to the coastline to justify a sinking of about 3'500 meters, it is not impossible but personally I doubt it.

Further this region does not have the required size of having of population able the feed an army of 1'200'000 man, neither the required size for plain of about 500 Kms by 200 Kms (according to Plato).



The Greec island of Thera.

This illustration shows the area around Greece and the Greec island of Thera at the time before the rising of the sea-level and the supposed displacement of the poles. This only shows that Greece was of a fair size at that time, but there is still no space for an island like Atlantis, even not when dividing everything by ten, like some scientist pretend. Note that Greece has on this illustration has different north south orientation as it has today, this due to the supposed pole shift.

An Other interesting point of this picture is, as we know now, that the Black Sea had no connction with the Mediterian Sea and had possibly not only a different level, but was a lake to.


The mid Atlantic ridge around the Acores islands.

Map of the island of Atlantis, picture obtained by correcting the northern Atlantic region up, so that the overall depth matches the overall depth of the southern Atlantic ocean and the overall depth of the other oceans.

The north pole is positioned such that the pole is on the center of the predeluvian ice-cap, there where one would expect it to be.

The total size of the map is 4'800 Kms by 7'080 Kms, and the island itself is about 1'450 Kms wide and 3'200 Kms long, and the tail is about 2'000 Kms.

This leaves in south center part place for a plain of about 500 Kms by 200 Kms, corresponding to the sizes mentioned by Plato, considering a foot to be between 25 Cm and 40 Cm, then the exact size of a Atlatean foot remains today unknown. The even Europe had in the past as many sizes for foots and inches as there were kings and towns. The Frech revolution and Napoleon did put an end to this nonsense.

Dont forget Plato's writing « There are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away » so do not expect to find much leftovers of this island, and anyway diving down there with a vehicle with a sight of no more 10 meters searching for any trace in an area of 1'450 Kms by 3'200 Kms looks like predicting the stock market by analyzing the Wallstreet Journal with a microscope.

However heavy constructions like pyramids and parts being digged out of the rocks to make place for canals should still be visible (in fact, the map does show such a canal of about 550 kms long !!), as well the remains of the sacred memorials.


The prediluvian worldmap.

Map of the prediluvian world obtained by applying the correction data to the northern Atlantic ocean, and the south American continental plate. (which looks to me as been lifted up by 1'000 to 2'000 meters) I expect the the australian sub continent as well to be lifted up by an unknown amount. (More on this subject in « Continent changes & tectonic plate alignment »)

Not only that my climate simulation program matches the pre-deluvean ice-cap cover, but it shows also that a part of Alaska and Siberia suold have been free of ice, as we suspect it was 12'000 years ago. Europe and Northern America and Canada however should have been covered with ice, which also matches very closely the known situation of 12'000 years ago.

The simulation of lifting up a part of the Mid-Atlantic ocean floor shows the island of Atlantis is indeed in front of the « Pillars of Hercules » being the straits of Gibraltar, where it is supposed to be according Plato's dialogs.

Interesting part of this map is the size of the Indonesian sub-continent, we could imagine an other empire over there as many have suggested. Maybe this was the where the famous « Rama and Lemurian Civilizations » lived?, who should have lived somewhere around in this region, but nobody has found there any trace nor even writing about it, we only suspect thier existence. (To know more try the web-site « Ancient Indian Arcraft Technology » or take a look at the Ancient empire page of « The Adelphi Organization »)


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http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000581;p=3


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 01:56:32 am
From Boreasi's article:



quote:
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First Americans May Have Been European
Bjorn Carey
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com
Sun Feb 19, 9:00 PM ET




ST. LOUIS—The first humans to spread across North America may have been seal hunters from France and Spain.


This runs counter to the long-held belief that the first human entry into the Americas was a crossing of a land-ice bridge that spanned the Bering Strait about 13,500 years ago.


The new thinking was outlined here Sunday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.


The tools don’t match


Recent studies have suggested that the glaciers that helped form the bridge connecting Siberia and Alaska began receding around 17,000 to 13,000 years ago, leaving very little chance that people walked from one continent to the other.


Also, when archaeologist Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian Institution places American spearheads, called Clovis points, side-by-side with Siberian points, he sees a divergence of many characteristics.


Instead, Stanford said today, Clovis points match up much closer with Solutrean style tools, which researchers date to about 19,000 years ago. This suggests that the American people making Clovis points made Solutrean points before that.


There’s just one problem with this hypothesis—Solutrean toolmakers lived in France and Spain. Scientists know of no land-ice bridge that spanned that entire gap.


INSERT ATLANTIS REFERENCE HERE!!!
CS
 

The lost hunting party


Stanford has an idea for how humans crossed the Atlantic, though—boats. Art from that era indicates that Solutrean populations in northern Spain were hunting marine animals, such as seals, walrus, and tuna.


They may have even made their way into the floating ice chunks that unite immense harp seal populations in Canada and Europe each year. Four million seals, Stanford said, would look like a pretty good meal to hungry European hunters, who might have ventured into the ice flows much the same way that the Inuit in Alaska and Greenland do today.


Inuit use large, open hunting boats constructed from animal skins for longer trips or big hunts. These boats, called umiaq, can hold a dozen adults, as well as several children, dead seals or walruses, and even dog-sled teams. Inuit have been building these boats for thousands of years, and Stanford believes that Solutrean people may have used a similar design.


It’s possible that some groups of these hunters ventured out as far as Iceland, where they may have gotten caught up in the prevailing currents and were carried to North America.


“You get three boats loaded up like this and you would have a viable population,” Stanford said. “You could actually get a whole bunch of people washing up on Nova Scotia.”


Some scientists believe that the Solutrean peoples were responsible for much of the cave art in Europe. Opponents of Stanford’s work ask why, then, would these people stop producing art once they made it to North America?


“I don’t know,” Stanford said. “But you’re looking at a long distance inland, 100 miles or so, before they would get to caves to do art in.”

Ancient People Followed 'Kelp Highway' to America, Researcher Says
North America Settled by Just 70 People, Study Concludes
Possible Fire Pit Dated to Be Over 50,000 Years Old
Early Man Was Hunted by Birds
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 01:59:00 am
The lost continent of Atlantis to be found in near future

Results of a previous research conducted in the area not far from Cyprus were classified as secret immediately

Several large international expeditions set off for different parts of the world last year to find vestiges of legendary Atlantis, which is still considered the exciting mysteries in the history of human civilization. According to the legend, the continent was flooded ten thousand years before Christ. Scientists still find ancient maps showing now-defunct islands and continents. British researcher Colin Wilson believes that the mystery of the lost continent will be unveiled very soon. The scientist decided to take part in the epoch-making event and joined another expedition devoted to Atlantis. Colin Wilson was inspired with recent explorations of mysterious and fathomless depth of the Mediterranean Sea - the cradle of the European civilization.

Explorers pay major attention to the part of the seafloor south off Cyprus, spreading to the coast of Syria. Scientists determined that the territory had been flooded, when the waters of the Atlantic Ocean broke through the dam between Gibraltar and North Africa and rushed into the Mediterranean lowland. A monstrous flood destroyed populated and fertile lands. Vestiges of fantastic ancient civilizations can be found on Cyprus, Crete, Malta, Corsica - the remains of the erstwhile Mediterranean lowland. Scientists believe that the area was populated with several nations, who shared their rich knowledge with ancient Egyptians, whose priests passed the legend of Atlantis across generations.

The destruction of the whole civilization was ascribed to gods’ anger, who decided to punish Atlanteans for their moral degradation and sinful lifestyle. The story about the destroyed super-civilization exists for over 2,000 years, after it was first told by Plato, the Greek historian and philosopher. US Congressman Ignatius Donnelly wrote a book about Atlanteans in the 19th century. The congressman wrote in his work that they used to be first humans, who invented gun-powder, paper, studied astronomy and learned how to smelt metals. Egypt, Donnelly wrote, was their colony, where they tried to civilize wild tribes. Ignatius Donnelly thinks that the Great Sphinx of Egypt is a lot older that people think it is - it was built by those, who survived the cataclysm. It was proved as a result of scientific researches that the erosion of the sphinx’s stone had been caused with hard rains, not with sand storms. It is supposed that the sphinx was built about 7,000 years B.C.

The mysterious Greek island of Santorini, situated not far from Crete, attracted a lot of attention in the 1960s. An enormous volcanic eruption destroyed the civilization that used to exist on the island, and Santorini turned to a huge sea crater. Archaeologists and historians added the island on their lists of ’candidacies’ for the title of the lost continent, although it did not fit Plato’s description. The events described in the legend of Atlantis took place a lot earlier than the destructive eruption and earthquake rocked the island.

Some scientists think that the Mediterranean Sea is rather young - it was supposedly formed after the end of the ice age, when the global warming commenced. Waters started changing continents’ outlines, leading to monstrous floods. A low mountainous chain used to separate the Mediterranean lowland from the Atlantic Ocean.

Atlantis might have been the cradle of early Mideastern civilizations too. Colin Wilson believes that scientists will soon obtain sensational information about the flooded country. Specialists plan to photograph the bottom of the sea, where they expect to find ancient buildings. The results of the previous research conducted in the area were classified as secret immediately. This may bring up a question of which country may own the territory of Atlantis with priceless treasures and archaeological findings. Syria and Lebanon have already set forth their claims for a part of the lost continent. Turkey has recently evinced interest too. Naval forces of several states will most likely watch and control the route of the research vessel. The US Navy has reportedly scanned the areas of the seafloor, where the ancient city is presumably situated.

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?ArticleID=1049


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:00:15 am
Bathymetric map of the Atlantic Ocean:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minrelief.html

Further information on the Smith and Sandwell data is available at: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/predicted/explore.HTML

For further information on the GLOBE project, consult: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/topo/globe.html.

NGDC can produce custom images, on request, for many of our databases. Please contact Dr. Peter W. Sloss (Peter.W.Sloss@noaa.gov), NOAA/NGDC Mail Code E/GC3, 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO USA 80305, Phone 303-497-6119, fax 303-497-6513, for details.
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:00:25 am
(http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minsurface/512/45N045W.jpg)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:01:33 am
(http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minsurface/512/90N045W.jpg)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:02:31 am
(http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minsurface/512/45N090W.jpg)


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:03:59 am
The Mid-Atlantic Ridge – Atlantis revisited

Even today several contrasting theories exist concerning the geographical position of Atlantis, the continent – or perhaps we should say, the island – that disappeared approximately 14,000 years ago. Some researchers try to locate Atlantis in the Mediterranean Sea, believing that the Greek island of Santorini is in reality what is left of it, while others search for the mythical place off the coasts of Cornwall, England. Some even think that Atlantis may be found near Antarctis.

Plato’s texts are known to most people who are interested in the origins of the Atlantis myth, so we will not cite them here. However, one piece of information that Plato seems to be very certain about, is Atlantis’ location "beyond the pillars of Hercules" – the ancient name for Gibraltar. Thus, in the Atlantic Ocean – and in the light of this information, it is logical to conclude that the name of the lost island is not casual.

If we presume that the Atlantic Ocean is the place where we may find traces of Atlantis even today, an important point must be stressed: if Atlantis was actually located in the Atlantic Ocean, it could not have been a ‘continent’, if we consider the morphology of the earth’s crust. The well-documented theory of the continental drift seems to sustain this conclusion. In fact, if we compare the costal lines of the African and European continents to those of the American continent, we find that there is not sufficient land "left" to justify the presence of an actual "continent", not even in past geological ages.

Also the question of the sudden disappearance of Atlantis is a mystery. In geological terms, a few years or months represent a very short period of time, which is why the theory that Atlantis may have sunk ‘in a few hours’ is rather weak. We may presume that this theory is a result of the usual evolution of legends: the disappearance of Atlantis in the course of a more probable period of several months or weeks, with a geological background of several years of developing sub-crustal pressure – until we arrive at a fabulous and sudden disastrous sinking that seems mysterious and inexplicable. This is the typical way of the oral tradition of distorting the actual facts. When mankind began to record the history of their ancestors, the stories e.g. from Atlantis, had been passed from generation to generation of survivors and their off-spring with varying degrees of accuracy, until what would finally be written down, was bound to be a tale very different from the actual events. The historical notions that we possess regarding Atlantis are those gained by Solon from the priests of Ancient Egypt – and another 200 years passed, before Plato wrote the texts where Atlantis is mentioned. Obviously, the story of the lost country has greatly changed during the centuries and millennia.

Some researchers have sought the solution of a sudden disappearance of an entire continent in the theory of the inversion of the Earth’s magnetic poles – a real phenomenon which however does not represent a threat to the survival of continents, and only in rare cases to that of islands.

Below, a geologist’s condensed explanation of the concepts of the inversion of the magnetic field of the planet and the continental drift. Writes dr. Mauro Carta who collaborates with the Italian web-site www.vialattea.net/esperti/geologia.html:

"The phenomenon of the inversion of the Earth’s magnetic field is not connected with any particular glaciation, e.g. the Riss. We are having to do with a phenomenon that is strictly connected with the theory of the movements caused by plate tectonics, and with the expansion of the ocean floor. At the centre of the Atlantic Ocean there is a gigantic ridge which expands for thousands of kilometres in N-S direction, from Iceland in the north to the Bouvet Island in the south. In correspondance with this ridge (which has been named ‘mid-atlantic’ because it divides the ocean in two parts), we find submarine volcanic activity, with an incessant production of basaltic crust. In the ‘60s the theories of H. Hess and D.H. Matthews introduced Plate Tectonics, which repeated the conclusions that the German Alfred Wegener had drawn in the 1920s. A very substantial piece of evidence for the expansion of the oceanic crust was the discovery of the magnetic inversion: practically, it has been discovered that the Earth’s two magnetic poles are periodically inverted. The reason for this inversion is yet to be discovered, but the inversion is registered at a microscopical level in basaltic rocks, whose magnetic minerals solidify along the lines of the magnetic field present during their period of consolidation. The ocean floor of the Atlantic Ocean presents a ‘stripe’ structure, meaning that moving away from the ridge, the magnetism of the basaltic rocks display positive polarity in one place, and a negative polarity in another (the iron-magnetic minerals of an oblongue shape display variations of 180° between each other). As the Atlantic basalts are of an age that goes from 180 million years to very recent structures, this means that at least since the Jurassic until today the two magnetic poles (which are not identical to the geographic poles that correspond to those points where the Earth’s rotation axis intersects its surface – the magnetic poles are somewhat dislocated; they have their northern point in the Canadian arctic archipelago – and the southern one in the d’Urville Sea in Antarctis.) These magnetic poles have inverted their position a great many times."

(cit. Mauro Carta, www.vialattea.net/esperti/geologia.html )


The Mid-Atlantic Ridge – MAR – as it can be seen in NASA’s official map
(URL: http://pubs.usgs.gov/publications/text/ridge.html)

It is possible to observe that exactly along the ridge, in a certain point some higher reliefs are present below sea level, as indicated by the lighter blue colour.
From the geologist Mauro Carta’s explanations it results that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is very active – the dislocations of the reliefs are frequent and vivacious.
However – if there does not seem to be sufficient room for an entire continent, what may the original topology of Atlantis have been like?

The topografic relief maps that we have at our disposal today speak clearly. In the below image the colour indicates the age of the rocks. The brown and red zones are the most recent ones; they go back to a minimum of 0 years to a maximum of 9.6 million years ago. All the other areas are even older (older than 9.6 million years). Once again, the area that captures our interest is outlined by the white rectangle:


(Detail from the world topografic map at http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov.)

As regards our purpose: the effective possibility of finding Atlantis, the last expedition in the mentioned area of the Atlantic Ocean saw an American team searching the MAR in the period November 14 – December 14, 2000. Responsible for the team were the professors Donna Blackman (Scripps Institute of Oceanography), Jeff Karson (University of Washington) and Deborah Kelley (Duke University), and other experts from a total of eight different American universities participated in the project. The "R/V Atlantis" was the research ship provided by the US Academic Navy – and the aim of the expedition was to study the mineralogical composition as well as the topographical evolution of the so-called "Atlantis Massif".


The instrument that would allow the experts to study the ridge at close quarters, was "Alvin", a small bathyscaphe capable of diving to great depths and equipped with a mechanical arm for the removal of rock samples. Furthermore, sophisticated sonar and video instruments on the "R/V Atlantis" would contribute to illuminating the results of the research from other angles.

The choice of the area where the research would be concentrated was not casual. Probably previous cartographic studies of images elaborated by satellites have helped the experts select an area where they might obtain the results they were aiming at.


This research area, however, does not correspond entirely with the area indicated in the above NASA map (fig. 1), though perhaps except for the extreme north-eastern area of the chosen spot. The geographical location of the area is c. 30 degrees north. The MAR expedition’s web-site, http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/mar/ , explains the purpose of the same:

"The unusual thing about the area under study is a large mountain, called the Atlantis Massif, just west of the Mid-Atlantic spreading center at 30°N. The peak of the mountain is 1,700 m (5,000') higher than the usual spreading ridge crest. The width of the mountain is 4-6 times greater than that of most abyssal hills. It is clear that this mountain is a new addition to Earth's crust since it is part of very young and newly created seafloor. The mission is to find out why and how it formed. What forces are responsible for the great height to which rock has been uplifted at this site? What caused a change in the usual style of oceanic crustal formation? When might this area return to its normal state? These are the many questions the scientists seek to answer."

If the American research team had decided to concentrate their studies in an area located more north-easternly of the Atlantis Massif, they might have discovered other things – perhaps also of an archaeological nature – but the mentioned scientific expedition of course clearly states that their main interests concerned the geological features of the MAR. From the maps of the "National Geophysic Data Center" (NGDC: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov ) it is possible to observe very clearly that a little further towards north-east, a much more interesting relief is located, from an archaeological point of view – it is in fact an area where the attempted recovery of objects might offer evidence of a submerged civilization. Let us observe the maps which are available on the Internet at the NGDC-site (the images are small details of much larger maps, which have not been manipulated in any way. The maps have been developed by the NGDC for didactic and scientific purposes.)


In the right (eastern) part of this image we find the Iberian Peninsula, Gibraltar, and part of the north-west African coast. The Spanish and Portuguese islands off the African coast may be observed – and further to the left we see a section of the mid-atlantic ridge. The area outlined by the while oval corresponds to an area which probably represents the reliefs of a huge island which now lies below the surface of the Atlantic Ocean. This area also includes the Azores.

The reliefs which are so clearly observed in the above image are even clearer in a splendid image of the entire planet, where the factor of the Earth’s curvature logically improves the visual prospective:( http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/relief_slides2.html )


It has been possible to study the underwater mountain ranges only since 1973 – in fact, ever since the beginning of the space age the various satellites have been providing spectacular images which indicate without any doubt hitherto unknown details concerning the Earth’s crust and the submarine reliefs. Here, we clearly see a submerged shape similar to a peninsula which points in south-west direction, towards the northern coasts of South America. The same reliefs that we find schematically sketched in the first map of this article, the NASA map, are more clearly visible, here.

It seems natural to ask, if so many archaeologists are in search of a scoop - why have none of them ever gone directly in this place, to study the mid-atlantic ridge in a place where aerial images show such an evident island/peninsula shape?

In an attempt to explain this ‘lack of interest’ (or, granted, maybe we should say, ‘lack of funds’?), admittedly we only have very few references to point to, in order to feel certain that an expedition with the aim of finding Atlantis would yield the results hoped for. Besides Plato’s writings which have already been thoroughly discussed by many persons and organisations on the Internet, we have only one alternative source that offers any conclusive material on Atlantis. However, to compensate for its ‘solitude’, this source directly states the geographical coordinates of the lost island of Atlantis. And where two different sources agree, as it is known, the probabilities of obtaining a result increase. Below, we cite the ethical-philosophical-scientific work of "Toward the Light":

"The second empire that perished was a large island in the Atlantic Ocean, the so-called Atlantis. In the remote past this island was connected with the southern part of North America, but through volcanic activity it became separated from the mainland.
The shape of the island can reasonably well be compared to a diagonally elongated, inverted Latin "S" – the upper curve at the right, and the lower at the right. The island’s northernmost point extended to about latitude 40° North, longitude 34° West. The island extended south to about latitude 25 ½ ° North, and west to longitude 47° West, latitude 27 ½ ° North, and eastward to about longitude 28° West. …"

- and the detailed information to establish Atlantis’ exact location continue. On the base of this information we may sketch the following map (the shape of the island is only approximate):


In the book "Toward the Light" we furthermore find the information that if we trace an imaginary line from the English town of Plymouth to the centre of the island of Trinidad close to the South American coast, such a line would cut through the length of the submerged island and touch its easternmost and southernmost points. The largest part of the island would lie west of this line.

Those who have hitherto attempted a reconstruction of Atlantis have probably found difficulty when dealing with the factor of the curvature of our planet. It is in fact difficult to trace a line like the one described without being able to work with the Earth-sphere in three dimensions. If we let ourselves be helped by the most recent satellite map from the NGDC, this new prospective reveals some interesting details:


What would the oceanographers/archaeologists find if they actually decided to research the mentioned area, with bathyscaphs equipped with cameras, sophisticated sonars, etc.? After 14,000 years it would certainly prove difficult to find the ceramic objects described by our source:

"The production of clay utensils was widespread. Basins, bowls and vases were often engraved with ornamental animals and leaves, whose outlines were filled in with brilliant colours." ("Toward the Light", pages 196-97)

It would probably be easier to find other kinds of objects:

"Gold, copper and to some extent silver were all known and used for jewelry and finer utensils, as well as for inlays in the carved wooden images of the gods. Many such images were hewn in stone or formed out of various metallic alloys. The art of building was especially highly developed." (idem, page 197)

The site of what was perhaps the most impressing construction of Atlantis has been pointed out to us: Atze’s Temple – today identified by the name of one of the last high priests of the island. Even today, we have the possibility of observing this temple, because we possess drawings, based on precise instructions from the authors of "Toward the Light". In the 1930s the Danish architect Knud Brønnum made a model in scale of the temple, which can be seen in the offices of the publishing house "Toward the Light Publishers", in Adelgade, Copenhagen.

Below, the drawing of the temple’s façade:


(the drawing made by Knud Brønnum, copied from Carsten Skaarup’s book,
"The Victory of the Light over Darkness")

For more accurate information on Atlantis, see "Atlantis - geographical and cultural notions".

Is it scientifically possible, on the basis of the information we possess of Atlantis, to say that we have at last discovered the lost island’s geographical location?

The hitherto most reliable texts, Plato’s writings, have been carefully studied by many archaeologists and amateur researchers. The other text that we have mentioned in the above, "Toward the Light", is a much more recent text; it was first published in 1920.

Plato left us with fairytale-like and approximate indications – while "Toward the Light" describes Atlantis’ culture and level of civilization very accurately – besides offering its precise geographical position. The above study, based on the maps at our disposal today – which most certainly were not available to those persons who wrote down and published "Toward the Light" – demonstrates beyond doubt that the mentioned geographical coordinates are to be taken very seriously.

**********************

Other links for those who want to learn more about the geological nature of ocean floor of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge – the experts’ comments may be found at the following URLs:

· From "Science for Everyone", a ‘field study’ of the MAR containing interesting data on the eruptive processes and the tectonic movements typical of the area: http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/eosdksmith.html

· Exceptional images at: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minrelief.html
The entire site http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov displays various types of geographical maps. A web site worth visiting.

http://www.altrementi.com/english/literary/mid-atl_ridge.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:11:47 am
The Celtic Shelf hypothesis:

Atlantis: New Hypothesis

by Viatcheslav Koudriavtsev


------------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM THE AUTHOR

This is the third edition of my paper. The first one was sent as a brochure "Returning to the Enigma of Plato's Atlantis" to Ancient History Departments of some Universities and to Geographical Societies of a number of countries in June 1995. The magazine version of it has come out in the May 1996 issue of "Vokrug Sveta" ("Around the World", Magazine of Travels, Adventures and SF) - a kind of Russian "National Geographic". The second one was published in some newsgroups and mailing lists in February - March 1996. In the present edition I am trying to provide answers to most of the questions I was asked after those publications. Besides, I have since found some materials illustrating some of my suggestions.

I would like to apologise for some prolixity of the introduction and maybe the slightly simplified style of setting forth some theses, which are due to the fact that the paper is meant not only for experts on the issue, but also for those who are not familiar in detail with a whole range of issues connected with the subject.

The two translations of Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias used are the Thomas Taylor translation first published in 1804 and considered to be classic (Plato. The Timaeus and the Critias or Atlantis. The Thomas Taylor translation. N.Y., Pantheon books, 1944) and the Desmond Lee translation, first published in 1965 (Timaeus) and in 1971 (Critias) (Plato. Timaeus and Critias. Penguin books, 1994).

I also had parallel texts of the dialogues in ancient Greek and in Latin (Platonis Opera. Graece et latine. Paris, 1877).

Where not specified, Desmond Lee's translation of Plato is quoted, since his language is more up-to-date.

After quotations in round brackets, it is indicated where in Plato's text the passage quoted belongs according to the traditionally accepted pagination.

The Greek words given in the explanation of quotations have been transcribed with Latin letters by the author because of the ASCII-codes format.

The bold type in the quotations and the explanations in square brackets are mine.

I would like to express my gratitude to: •V.E.Schitz for assistance in my work;

•M.A.Garntsev, Ph. D., Associate Professor, Department of the History of Foreign Philosophy, Faculty of Philosophy, Moscow State University, for consultations on the Greek text;

•E.Y.Koudriavtseva for help with translating the paper into English;

•M.V.Dyakonova of the Institute of Scientific Information on Social Sciences of the Russian Academy of Sciences.


INTRODUCTION

Everyone will have heard at one time or another the name of Atlantis mentioned, we can come across it in various contexts. Almost any encyclopedia these days is sure to have an article on Atlantis, which usually reads something like this: "Atlantis - according to an ancient Greek myth recorded by Plato, there had once existed a vast island in the Atlantic Ocean to the west of Gibraltar, with fertile soil, and densely populated, which sank to the bottom of the sea because of an earthquake. Questions of whether Atlantis has ever existed, and if so, why it vanished, today continue to arouse as much controversy among scientists as ever."

On The Source

Plato speaks of Atlantis in two works - dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Dialogue was a genre widely popular in Ancient Greece, in which information or ideas are not narrated by the author himself, but are presented to the reader by two or more interlocutors addressing each other. Such a genre is convenient for presenting differing views on the same subject and, besides, makes it possible to render the experience cited in support of the deliberations, concrete to the utmost. Therefore, the genre of the ancient Greek dialogues should not be seen merely as short-hand records of actual conversations.

In both dialogues the story of Atlantis is told by Critias, Plato's maternal great grandfather, narrating word for word the conversation between Solon and an Egyptian priest. In Timaeus the issue of Atlantis is raised along with many others, while the unfinished Critias, in all probability, was to be exclusively devoted to it. Critias also explains how he himself came to hear the story. He heard it from his grandfather whose name was also Critias, who, in his turn, had heard it from Solon himself, who had been a close friend of his father, Dropides.

In his conversation with Solon, the priest, referring to the sacred records, speaks of a powerful country, Atlantis, lying outside the Pillars of Hercules, of the beginning of a war between Atlanteans and the citizens of Athens and of a catastrophe which destroyed both, and resulted in Atlantis sinking to the bottom "in a single dreadful day and night".

The priest also says how many years have elapsed since - nine thousand years. Besides, Critias contains the myth of the origin of the rulers of Atlantis, the description of its geography, architecture and of its social life, all of which suggests the idea of imagination having been used to make up for the lack of information.

It is estimated that the dialogue took place around the year 425 B.C. (Plato himself must have been about 2 years old at the time). Critias-grandson, Plato's great grandfather, was probably about 80 at the time, and he had heard the story about 70 years before (i.e. around the year 495 B.C.), from Critias-grandfather, when the latter was about 90. Since Critias-grandfather had heard it from Solon himself, who belonged to the same generation as his father, it can be reasonably assumed that the conversation between Solon and the Egyptian priest took place around 600 - 575 B.C. Thus, it follows that, according to Plato, Atlantis vanished in the middle of the 10th millennium B.C.

Phenomenon Of Atlantis

Hardly anyone in the world knows exactly how many books have been written about Atlantis by the proponents and opponents of the idea that it once existed. Those who have attempted to count them, come up with widely diverging, albeit invariably four-digit numbers. No doubt, the topic of Atlantis could claim its place among he best-selling topics of the current century.

The special attention that Plato's narration about Atlantis gets can be accounted for by the fact that the country described in Timaeus and Critias does not fit in with our present-day ideas of the history of humanity, and the date of its vanishing, as recorded by Plato, goes back to unprecedentedly early times. If we treat this narration as trustworthy, a new and more comprehensive model of the history of mankind's development is essential.

The idea seems attractive to many, in view of the numerous blank spots and contradictions in the existing concept of the history of humanity (for instance, such as the vast span of time between the emergence of an anatomically modern Homo Sapiens and the development of the first civilisations), all the more so, that the text which could bring about a revision of the existing model is authored by Plato, who stands with Socrates and Aristotle as one of the shapers of the whole intellectual tradition of the West.

At the same time, Plato's narration about Atlantis stands by itself, it is not directly corroborated or indirectly echoed by anything, and in itself does not give sufficient grounds for such a revision.

Regrettably, most of the Atlantis enthusiasts are swayed by emotions, and this lures them away from the commitment to scientific correctness. They have found in the epos of many peoples of the world what they call "direct indications" of the Atlantean descent of these peoples. Deluded by wishful thinking, they often fall prey to perverted logic: "If the "Belt of Pyramids" exists, it follows that Atlantis also existed in reality."

In the upshot, the problem has become something of a scientific curiosity. Even if scientific data coming to light as time goes by, are interpreted in the context of Atlantis, as a rule, it is done in a biased way and has little in common with a balanced scientific approach.

Viewpoints

Without claiming to present an exhaustive survey of the existing viewpoints on the issue, I would like to list only the ones I believe to be the most widespread.

• Some believe that Atlantis is Plato's invention from beginning to end, which he needed to expound his ideas of an ideal state.

• Others, who do not consider Plato's narration to be an invention, persevere in trying to interpret it in a way which would make it possible to link it with the already explored archaeological sites. Thus, some of them contend that none other than the island of Crete is Plato's Atlantis, claiming also that Greeks used the name of the Pillars of Hercules, mentioned by Plato, not for what is now called the Strait of Gibraltar, but for some rocks which were situated on the way from Athens to Crete. Given such an interpretation, it becomes imperative for them to bring the date of the vanishing of Atlantis given by Plato, in line with the time of the decline of the Minoan civilisation, established by archaeologists, and link it to the explosion of Thera/Santorin. Hence, rise is given to the hypothesis that the span of time between the vanishing of Atlantis and the conversation between Solon and the priest is actually 10 times shorter, and that the mistake was made either when Egyptian priests were copying the sacred records (it is suggested that the characters denoting 100 and 1000 in the Egyptian hieroglyphic system of writing are alike) or because Plato himself, like all his contemporaries, had little sense of time and dating. The same thesis of a mistake of multiplication by ten is used by the proponents of the Cretan Atlantis as regards the dimensions of the island, for the numbers Plato gives in Critias do not quite fit in with their theory, to put it mildly. Similar arguments are used to substantiate a variety of hypotheses, including some according to which Atlantis was situated not even in the Mediterranean Sea, but in the Sea of Marmara or the Black Sea.

• Yet others, fervently believing in the truthfulness of the information provided by Plato, rush to search for Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean. They have already announced, at different times, that the Azore, Canary and Bahama Islands, as well as some other more or less suitable ones, are the remains of Plato's sunken island. They also like to juggle with suggestions of mistakes in the numerals as regards the dimensions of Atlantis.

I will endeavour to analyse once again Plato's narration, comparing its basic elements and their interpretations with some fairly credible facts, and suggest for your consideration one more hypothesis, which, in my opinion, hardly has more weak points, vulnerable to criticism, than the already existing on


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:12:22 am
INVENTION ?

First of all, it is highly doubtful that Plato would have had to invent Atlantis to expound his ideas of an ideal state system, - indeed, he had previously expounded them more than once in his other works, without any geographical hoaxes.

Secondly, in Timaeus itself there already exists - and is actively used by Plato - an object only too suitable for setting forth utopian concepts - the pre-historic Athens, so the supposition that Plato needed to invent specifically for the purpose a second, let alone such an exotic one as Atlantis, seems rather far-fetched.

Thirdly, the explanation of how the information of Atlantis came to Plato's notice, does not seem to contain logical contradictions, which in itself enhances its credibility. It also sounds convincing that events of such ancient history are narrated to Solon by none other than an Egyptian priest, and the way he explains why Greeks had lost their historical memory.

"You are all [Greeks] young in mind," came the reply: "you have no belief rooted in old tradition and no knowledge hoary with age. And the reason is this. There have been and will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water, lesser ones by countless other means...

But in our temples we have preserved from earliest times a written record of any great or splendid achievement or notable event which has come to our ears whether it occurred in your part of the world or here or anywhere else; whereas with you and others, writing and the other necessities of civilisation have only just been developed when the periodic scourge of the deluge descends, and spares none but the unlettered and uncultured, so that you have to begin again like children, in complete ignorance of what happened in our part of the world or in yours in early times...

You remember only one deluge, though there have been many, and you do not know that the finest and best race of men that ever existed lived in your country; you and your fellow citizens are descended from the few survivors that remained, but you know nothing about it because so many succeeding generations left no record in writing". (Tim. 22d-23c)

Of course, the archaeological data on which modern ideas of the past of humanity are based, is vast. But the history of Earth has seen a lot of natural cataclysms of enormous proportions, and we cannot completely discard the possibility that the historical memory of humanity has indeed been curtailed, due to the destruction of material evidence by a catastrophe more violent than the ones we know of in the so-called "historical time". (Just imagine what the picture of life on Earth in the 19th century would have looked like a thousand years later, if both Europe and North America had been erased from the face of Earth by some catastrophe.)

WHEN ?

Assertions that Plato had a vague idea of time and chronology do not seem well-substantiated. Besides, there is such a natural approximate measure for assessing large spans of time as a generation, and it does not seem likely that Plato did not perceive the distinction between a period covering the lifespans of several tens of generations and that encompassing several hundreds of generations. (Hardly anyone would assert that Plato had a vague idea of the distinction between tens and hundreds.)

Any assumption that Solon made a mistake in reading the Egyptian hieroglyphs he did not know sufficiently well, should be discarded as Plato explicitly says that he did not read the sacred records himself, but was told of their contents by the priest.

Another reason for the mistake of multiplication by 10 might have been the misunderstanding by Solon of the numerals in the Egyptian priest's story, which is highly improbable, since, firstly, there are several numerals in the story, and, secondly, the spans of time which these numerals describe are interrelated in the priest's story.

"Solon was astonished at what he heard and eagerly begged the priests to describe to him in detail the doings of these citizens of the past. "I will gladly do so, Solon," replied the priest, "both for your sake and your city's, but chiefly in gratitude to the Goddess to whom it has fallen to bring up and educate both your country and ours - yours first, when she took over your seed from Earth and Hephaestus, ours a thousand years later. The age of our institutions is given in our sacred records as eight thousand years, and the citizens whose laws and whose finest achievement I will now briefly describe to you therefore lived nine thousand years ago; we will go through their history in detail later on at leisure, when we can consult the records." (Tim. 23d-24a)

However, if we do assume that Solon misunderstood the priest, it would be difficult to imagine an Egyptian priest who, around the year 600 B.C. gives the age of civilisation in the Nile Valley as 800 years. And it would be an outright impossibility to assume that sacred records could have contained such nonsense, and that "nine thousand years" only appeared in the story in the process of copying, as a result of an accidental substitution of the character denoting thousands for another one, denoting hundreds.

Yet another argument against the alleged mistake of multiplication by ten is the fact that none of the sources dealing with the second millennium B.C., contains any reference to what is described by Plato in his narrative about Atlantis, and consequently, either his narrative, after all, is a hoax, or it is really a case of information lost and accidentally retrieved - information going back to a much earlier period.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:12:33 am
INVENTION ?

First of all, it is highly doubtful that Plato would have had to invent Atlantis to expound his ideas of an ideal state system, - indeed, he had previously expounded them more than once in his other works, without any geographical hoaxes.

Secondly, in Timaeus itself there already exists - and is actively used by Plato - an object only too suitable for setting forth utopian concepts - the pre-historic Athens, so the supposition that Plato needed to invent specifically for the purpose a second, let alone such an exotic one as Atlantis, seems rather far-fetched.

Thirdly, the explanation of how the information of Atlantis came to Plato's notice, does not seem to contain logical contradictions, which in itself enhances its credibility. It also sounds convincing that events of such ancient history are narrated to Solon by none other than an Egyptian priest, and the way he explains why Greeks had lost their historical memory.

"You are all [Greeks] young in mind," came the reply: "you have no belief rooted in old tradition and no knowledge hoary with age. And the reason is this. There have been and will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water, lesser ones by countless other means...

But in our temples we have preserved from earliest times a written record of any great or splendid achievement or notable event which has come to our ears whether it occurred in your part of the world or here or anywhere else; whereas with you and others, writing and the other necessities of civilisation have only just been developed when the periodic scourge of the deluge descends, and spares none but the unlettered and uncultured, so that you have to begin again like children, in complete ignorance of what happened in our part of the world or in yours in early times...

You remember only one deluge, though there have been many, and you do not know that the finest and best race of men that ever existed lived in your country; you and your fellow citizens are descended from the few survivors that remained, but you know nothing about it because so many succeeding generations left no record in writing". (Tim. 22d-23c)

Of course, the archaeological data on which modern ideas of the past of humanity are based, is vast. But the history of Earth has seen a lot of natural cataclysms of enormous proportions, and we cannot completely discard the possibility that the historical memory of humanity has indeed been curtailed, due to the destruction of material evidence by a catastrophe more violent than the ones we know of in the so-called "historical time". (Just imagine what the picture of life on Earth in the 19th century would have looked like a thousand years later, if both Europe and North America had been erased from the face of Earth by some catastrophe.)

WHEN ?

Assertions that Plato had a vague idea of time and chronology do not seem well-substantiated. Besides, there is such a natural approximate measure for assessing large spans of time as a generation, and it does not seem likely that Plato did not perceive the distinction between a period covering the lifespans of several tens of generations and that encompassing several hundreds of generations. (Hardly anyone would assert that Plato had a vague idea of the distinction between tens and hundreds.)

Any assumption that Solon made a mistake in reading the Egyptian hieroglyphs he did not know sufficiently well, should be discarded as Plato explicitly says that he did not read the sacred records himself, but was told of their contents by the priest.

Another reason for the mistake of multiplication by 10 might have been the misunderstanding by Solon of the numerals in the Egyptian priest's story, which is highly improbable, since, firstly, there are several numerals in the story, and, secondly, the spans of time which these numerals describe are interrelated in the priest's story.

"Solon was astonished at what he heard and eagerly begged the priests to describe to him in detail the doings of these citizens of the past. "I will gladly do so, Solon," replied the priest, "both for your sake and your city's, but chiefly in gratitude to the Goddess to whom it has fallen to bring up and educate both your country and ours - yours first, when she took over your seed from Earth and Hephaestus, ours a thousand years later. The age of our institutions is given in our sacred records as eight thousand years, and the citizens whose laws and whose finest achievement I will now briefly describe to you therefore lived nine thousand years ago; we will go through their history in detail later on at leisure, when we can consult the records." (Tim. 23d-24a)

However, if we do assume that Solon misunderstood the priest, it would be difficult to imagine an Egyptian priest who, around the year 600 B.C. gives the age of civilisation in the Nile Valley as 800 years. And it would be an outright impossibility to assume that sacred records could have contained such nonsense, and that "nine thousand years" only appeared in the story in the process of copying, as a result of an accidental substitution of the character denoting thousands for another one, denoting hundreds.

Yet another argument against the alleged mistake of multiplication by ten is the fact that none of the sources dealing with the second millennium B.C., contains any reference to what is described by Plato in his narrative about Atlantis, and consequently, either his narrative, after all, is a hoax, or it is really a case of information lost and accidentally retrieved - information going back to a much earlier period.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:13:12 am
ISLAND ?

But the Greek nesos quite unambiguously is translated as "island", and I have no reasons whatsoever to assume that once upon a time it could have had another meaning as well. In the same vein, the Latin insula does not seem to allow other interpretations. So, is it possible to equate that area of land in the west of Europe with Plato's Atlantis? I believe, it is, and there are two possible explanations of why the word which means "island" is used for something that was actually not one:

1.What gives grounds for this is what Critias says in the dialogue of the same title about the distortion of names due to their translation from language to language as the story was transmitted:

"Before I begin, a brief word of explanation, in case you are surprised at hearing foreigners so often referred to by Greek names. The reason is this. Solon intended to use the story in his own poem. And when, on inquiring about the significance of the names, he learned that the Egyptians had translated the originals into their own language, he went through the reverse process, and as he learned the meaning of a name wrote it down in Greek. My father had his manuscript, which is now in my possession, and I studied it often as a child. So if you hear names like those we use here, don't be surprised; I have given you the reason." (Critias. 113a-b)

It would seem appropriate to assume that, in being retold and passed so many times over, and in being translated from language to language, and in attempts to grasp the information through the prism of geographic realities which had already changed, a reduction of such notions as "land, territory, country - island" might have taken place.

After I have criticised unwarranted assumptions in the Mediterranean hypotheses, and assertions that mistakes had been made in the numerals, the readers may now reproach me for considerably stretching a point in interpreting Plato's narrative. That is why I would like to quote several passages, which, I believe, substantiate the legitimacy of my assumption, if in reading them we abstract ourselves from the word "island" (which I for convenience shall write in slash marks), focusing instead on the context in which it is used.

Of great interest is what Critias says after concluding the description of the capital city of Atlanteans:

"I have given you a pretty complete account of what was told me about the city and its original buildings; I must now try to recall the nature and organisation of the rest of the country. To begin with the region as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously; the city was surrounded by a uniformly flat plain, which was in turn enclosed by mountains which came right down to the sea. The plain was rectangular in shape, measuring three thousand stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand stades in breadth from the coast. This whole area of the /island/ faced south, and was sheltered from the north winds." (Critias. 117e-118a)

As we see, the description is rather contradictory. The thing is that in the Greek text, after Critias says that having described the city, he will proceed to the narration of the nature of the rest of the territory tes d allas khoras os e phusis, he actually returns to the description of the city as the place topos situated high above the sea level, from which it rises precipitously, after which he contrasts it de with the flat plain surrounding the city. Such an interpretation of the logic of the passage is borne out by the use in the same passage of two words - khoras and topos, which semantically must refer to different notions, hence, it was only the city that was situated high above the sea level, but not the plain. And again there is no indication whatsoever of land surrounded by the sea on all sides. The only image evoked by this description is that of a city on a hill rising precipitously from the sea, and the flat plain surrounding it, enclosed on three sides by mountains. This description suits in every detail, the land that once existed in the west of Europe: the mountains are the present Ireland, Great Britain and, possibly, the north-western part of France; the plain itself, which now constitutes the shelf to the south of the British Isles (sometimes called the Celtic Shelf) fits the dimensions specified by Plato, and the edge of the continental platform faces south-southwest. At about 48 d 25-30' N and 8 d 45-51' W, not far from this edge, there is a remarkable underwater hill called the Little Sole Bank marked on sufficiently minute maps. The top of the hill is 57 metres below the sea level, while the average depth around it is 130 - 160 metres. The hill is located approximately in the middle of the greater length of the plain in question (See again map of the Celtic Shelf).

Of course, the coastline of any island should form a closed circuit, and its length can be roughly estimated, as well as the width of the island. Plato's Critias, however, while giving in minute detail the dimensions of the plain adjoining the city, and giving the length of the canal encircling it, says nothing of the dimensions of the island as such, except that it was "larger than Asia and Libya combined".

Besides, it is not quite clear to what we owe the emergence of the stereotype, according to which Atlantis was situated "to the west" of Gibraltar, or "facing" it.

Thomas Taylor's translation reads:

"For at that time the Atlantic sea was navigable, and had an /island/ before that mouth which is called by you the Pillars of Hercules."

Desmond Lee in his translation uses the English word "opposite" to describe the location of Atlantis in relation to the strait, but we must take into account that he changed the logic of the description (Plato mentioned Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean context, but Lee describes it from the Mediterranean-centric viewpoint):

"For in those days the Atlantic was navigable. There was an /island/ opposite the strait which you call (so you say) the Pillars of Heracles..." (Tim. 24e)

The Greek preposition pro used by Plato in this passage means only that the island was situated "before" the strait, i.e. outside the Mediterranean, which means that the logical extension of its meaning towards denoting "immediately beyond", "right before" or "facing" (which gave rise to the traditional "to the west of") - is nothing but the second-guessing zeal of Plato's translators.

Nowhere does Plato call Atlanteans "islanders" - as a rule, the only specific point he makes is to emphasise the same contrast - that they did not live on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea:

"We must first remind ourselves that in all nine thousand years have elapsed since the declaration of war between those who lived outside and all those who lived inside the Pillars of Heracles." (Critias. 108e)

And this is how he describes the territories controlled by Atlanteans:

"They and their descendants for many generations governed their own territories and many other islands in the ocean and, as has already been said, also controlled the populations this side of the straits as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia." (Critias. 114c)

Let us also note that nowhere does he speak of the territories controlled by Atlanteans in terms of areas, describing only the length of the coastline. In all probability, it is connected with the geographical outlook of the time, shaped by the fact that people travelled mainly by sea, and maybe also by the specific features of population distribution in conditions of the Ice Age.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:13:22 am
Let us now once again return to the already quoted passage about the distribution of allocations between Poseidon's sons.

In Desmond Lee's translation:

"His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the /island/ towards the Pillars of Heracles and facing the district now called Gadira, was called in Greek Eumelus but in his own language Gadirus..." (Critias. 114b)

In Thomas Taylor's translation:

"But the twin son that was born immediately after Atlas, and who was allotted the extreme parts of the /island/, towards the pillars of Hercules, as far as to the region which at present from that place is called Gadiric, he denominated according to his native tongue Gadirus, but which we call in Greek Eumelus."

Taylor's translation in this case is closer to the original, since the Greek epi to, like the Latin pars ad, almost always means "as far as to", "right up to", "bordering on". The reader will probably agree that but for the word "island" the description would accurately suit the district in the south of modern Portugal which is the part of Atlantic coast closest to Gibraltar (See map of Western Europe).

2.The narration of Atlantis in Plato's Critias begins with the myth of its origins (about Evenor and Leucippe, Poseidon and Cleito), which includes a description that baffles most of the translators and interpreters. Not only is it contradictory in itself, indeed, it contradicts most of the subsequent descriptions of Atlantis, which we have already discussed (as regards the dimensions of the plain and the size of the hill):

"At the centre of the island, near the sea, was a plain, said to be the most beautiful and fertile of all plains, and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades [9.65 km] inland a hill of no great size," (Critias. 113b)

- Lee translates, and makes a footnote that by saying "at the centre of the island" Plato meant "midway along its greatest length".

Taylor translates the passage as follows:

"Towards the sea, but in the middle of the island, there was a plain..."

In the Latin translation the word media is used here, which means "middle". In Plato's original the phrase kata de meson is used, which means "around the middle", "approximately in the middle", with the word meson from mesos usually implying the middle of a linear segment, while for the notion of "centre" another word exists. Besides, a long island, whose length considerably exceeds its width, must have two longer sides, and if it were really the description of an island, then an indication should have been given, the middle of which side is meant. So, without a stretch, this description could only be understood as the middle of a certain segment of the coastline.

On the other hand, the myth cannot but go back to the time preceding the time of the catastrophe by several thousand years, when the sea level had not yet gone down to its lowest mark, so that this place became a hill on the coast of the sea, but was still an island (See again map of the Celtic Shelf), which,

• firstly, eliminates all the contradictions, i.e. it becomes clear, why "near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland", while the plain measured "three thousand stades in length and at its midpoint two thousand stades in breadth from the coast" and was "larger than Asia and Libya combined", and why the hill was "of no great size" while "the region [of the city] as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously";

• secondly, makes it possible to assume that in relation to Atlantis the word "island" is used, because the central part of the city, surrounded by a canal (water ring) and situated on the top of the hill which used to be an island, historically continued to be called "King's Island" or "Poseidon's Island". Hence, possibly, the use of the word "island" in relation to the whole city and country by all who transmitted the narration, including Plato.

CLIMATE

Paleoclimatology gives a fairly clear picture of the climate during the Ice Age, based mainly on the paleobotanic data. Without describing in detail the distribution of climatic zones in the regions of Europe, I would like to note only that the temperature decreased with distance from the sea and with altitude above the sea level much more dramatically than in the present conditions, since climate on the whole was much more continental, and the climatic zones most suitable for habitation, i.e. zones with a moderate sea climate, were located in the not-too-wide strip of land along the seacoast. (The climatic conditions of all the other territories were so harsh, that they ruled out the development of civilisation there, that is why the palaeolithic settlements discovered by archaeologists, dating to the same period, in no way contradict this hypothesis.)

The climate of the territory in question for a number of reasons was extremely favourable.

• Firstly, the vast territory in close proximity of the ocean was only slightly elevated above the ocean level.

• Secondly, the plain was protected from northern winds and the cold influence of the ice sheet covering Scandinavia, exactly as in Plato's narrative, by the mountains, albeit not high, which encircled it.

• Thirdly, there are reasons to believe that a warm current, now known as Gulf Stream - North Atlantic Drift, washing the shores of western and northern Europe, used to wash the shores of the territory in point.


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:13:55 am
TRAVELLING TO THE OPPOSITE CONTINENT

For finding the answer to the question of where Atlantis was situated, the passage describing its whereabouts in relation to landmarks other than the Pillars of Hercules is of particular interest:

"...from it [Atlantis] travellers could in those days reach the other islands, and from them the whole opposite continent which surrounds what can truly be called the ocean." (Tim. 24e-25a)

In Thomas Taylor's translation it reads as follows:

"...and afforded an easy passage to other neighbouring islands; as it was likewise easy to pass from those islands to all the continent which borders on this Atlantic sea. For the waters which are beheld within the mouth which we just now mentioned, have the form of a bay with a narrow entrance; but the mouth itself is a true sea. And lastly, the earth which surrounds it is in every respect truly denominated the continent."

The argument about whether America is implied in this passage or not, can be veritably endless. But such a vision of the ocean surrounded by land, is strange, to say the least, for Plato of Greece or even for his imagination. Indeed, Greeks themselves did not know of America. So, this is a serious argument in support of the idea that Plato really possessed some information which had been lost long before his time, and that thanks to him, we have received uniquely ancient recorded information.

The phased character of sailing to the "opposite continent" in itself suggests the idea of the not-too-high level of navigation skills. The manner of action described would be appropriate for the Vikings' voyage to the island of Newfoundland, rather than for Columbus's search of a westward route to India. It is well known that both ancient Egyptians and the ancient Greeks we know of, sailed the seas on their ships, keeping to the coast and never losing sight of it. The very look of ancient maps testifies to this. So does the fact that no evidence has been found, that either Greeks or even Egyptians were familiar with the principles of navigation used in sailing the open seas. There are no grounds to believe that matters were different as regards Plato's Atlanteans and ancient Athenians.

Taking into account these considerations, we can see that in Timaeus a very accurate description is given of the route from the west of Europe to the above-mentioned island of Newfoundland via Iceland, Greenland and smaller islands, which, given a lower level of the ocean, must have been more numerous on the way.

CATASTROPHE

Attempts to link the vanishing of Atlantis to the rise of the world ocean level following the end of the last Ice Age have always met with serious objections. It is believed that the ocean level had been rising with different speed for over two thousand years, and critics asserted that the process did not correspond to the catastrophic character of what Plato described - the vanishing of Atlantis "in a single dreadful day and night". There may be two possible explanations of this discrepancy:

1.The first explanation is rather traditional: a tidal wave (tsunami) following some natural calamity destroyed the city and killed the armies, and then all the artifacts had been slowly (over thousands of years) swallowed by the ocean.

2.The second explanation is a little more complex. It is possible that the rising of the sea level may have been much faster than is commonly believed. Let us try to clarify where the idea of the long duration of the process originated from in the first place. Conclusions about it are arrived at on the basis of

• paleoclimatic data on the rise in temperatures. But we must be aware of the extent to which these data are circumstantial for assessing the speed of the given process, and of the fact that the correlation between the mean temperature and the ocean level must be non-linear. (Let us recall an experiment from the school course of physics, when a vessel with ice is being heated, but the temperature of the water only starts rising after all the ice has melted.)

• data on the glacio-eustatic fluctuations of the ocean level, the shortcomings of which we have already discussed in section "WHERE?"

Meanwhile, up to now, very little is known about the reasons for the beginning and the end of the Ice Ages. The only thing that is evident is that for the mean temperature on the planet to rise, a vast amount of energy is required. In considering the temperature charts for various regions, we can observe that the warming that marked the end of the last Ice Age was more pronounced, dramatic and durable than all the previous ones (See graphs of climate change).

In view of this, it cannot be ruled out that the warming had been caused by some event (or events) of seismic, volcanic or atmospheric nature:

"At a later time [after beginning of war between Atlanteans and Athenians] there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was similarly swallowed up by the sea and vanished..." (Tim. 25c-d)

This cataclysm could have been connected with the release of a vast amount of energy. In that case, the speed of the glacier melting and the rise of the ocean level could have been considerably higher than is widely believed now.

Another argument to back the thesis that none other than the rising of the ocean level was the catastrophe that Plato described, is that the relief of the plain in point in the west of Europe was of such character, that the rising of the ocean level by one metre could often have meant the retreat of the coastline by kilometres. I am sure that even if the submerging lasted several years, the eye-witnesses (and victims), who were on a flat plain, must have perceived it as a very fast sinking of all the land they could see, from horizon to horizon (See again map of the Celtic Shelf).



Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:14:50 am
RESUME

To sum up briefly all the above-said, the hypothesis can be formulated as follows:

At the time when the last Ice Age ended, the rising level of the world ocean resulted in the submerging of a sizeable territory in the west of Europe (which is now known as the Celtic Shelf) and where the centre of a highly developed civilisation and of a powerful state was situated. This state (or a commonwealth of states) controlled the whole Atlantic coast of Europe (and maybe North Africa), a considerable part of the Mediterranean coast of Europe and Africa and, possibly, could also sail the territories along the Atlantic coasts of North Africa, North and Central America. Along with this state, there existed other states in areas with a mild climate, in particular, "Ancient Athens", which entered into a coalition with other peoples of the Mediterranean to jointly resist the expansion of Atlantis. All the artifacts of these civilisations have either been irretrievably lost or are now on the bottom of the sea, that is why they have never come to the notice of the modern archaeological science. Neither have written records of that period been preserved, and the earliest written recording of the events of that period was made at least a thousand years later, in Egypt, on the basis of the still remaining folk memory, but it was already very general in character and imprecise. It was pure chance that it came to the notice of Plato and was recorded by him in the dialogues Timaeus and Critias. Throughout the whole chain of the passing down of this narrative, distortions and inaccuracies have accumulated, which, coupled with lack of corroborating evidence from other sources and archaeological finds, has determined its present ambiguous status.

POSSIBILITIES

The hypothesis we are putting forward, like any other hypothesis, is only a concept, and needs to be corroborated by facts. Since so far no such facts, recognised as trustworthy, have been found, it is evident that this is where the main problem lies. But it seems to me that there are fairly wide possibilities for solving it, even without resorting to the analysis of legends and myths, or looking for cultural parallels, which in itself is very interesting, but can hardly bring forward irrefutable proofs.

Certain conclusions can probably be drawn on the basis of analysing the data of such scientific disciplines as comparative linguistics and anthropometry, though in order to obtain acceptably reliable findings a gigantic volume of work will have to be done and a vast amount of information processed.

And, last but not least, since the hypothesis deals with the submerging of Plato's Atlantis as the ocean level rose, the most convincing evidence (if it exists at all) can be found underwater at depths from 50 to 160 metres. As far as I know, no systematic archaeological survey of the shelf at these depths has ever been undertaken by anyone. Neither is high resolution bathymetry of the area in question available (I contacted many oceanographic centres including UK Hydrographic Office, British Oceanographic Data Centre, Plymouth Marine Laboratory, IFREMER, NOAA, Defence Mapping Agency of the USA).

I intend to organise an expedition to the above-mentioned region, which could consist of two stages:

1.A sweep bathymetry survey of the area in question, using sonar and satellite navigation system, for the purpose of charting a very high resolution map. Analysis of the data thus obtained, using different methods, including computer techniques, to identify objects that could be of artificial nature.

2.If objects of this kind are identified in the area, organisation of underwater exploration and photographing them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any suggestions and comments are welcome to explor@glas.apc.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 1996 Viatcheslav Y. Koudriavtsev

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chronology and Catastrophism Review

Proceedings of The 1995 Braziers College Conference

Velikovsky 100th Birthday Memorial Meeting

Journal of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies

1995 Special Issue (Volume XVII). ISSN 0953 0053


Atlantis: New Hypothesis

Modified 11 June 1996 @ 17:25 GMT

From explor@glas.apc.org Tue Jun 11 18:05:24 1996

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 17:21:16 +0400 (GMT+0400)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vyatcheslav Koudriavtsev


DISCLAIMER:
I make no claims for the accuracy of this information and express no personal opinion on the matter. The information was acquired off the web and from authors (owners of said pages) and other sources and described as "information" and I wanted to pass it along to anyone who might find it interesting or otherwise useful. I'd appreciate any feedback you'd care to share with me if you wish to proceed in a civilized manner. If the work is yours please email me and we can work something out.
I want to give them the credit they deserve or remove the piece.

http://www.think-aboutit.com/atlantis/AtlantisNewHypothesis.htm
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:15:51 am
Desiree

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Russian researchers have held the Second Congress of Atlantis Explorers in Moscow

Has legendary Atlantis ever existed? Russian explorers and researchers have recently held a meeting in Moscow in order to discuss the material about the legendary continent and share their opinion with each other. Alexander Voronin, the director of the Russian association for studying Atlantis's problems stated at the meeting that Atlantis would be found. Alexander Voronin added that various findings in different parts of the planet proved the certainty of finding the lost continent.

Remains of the "big land" have been found in the water area of the Brazilian island of Sao Paulo; an undestroyed temple of thousands years old has been found in the sea not far from Europe. Voronin believes that such findings testify to the existence of a "central kingdom and numerous islands, on which ten Atlas brothers lived."

Participants of the meeting stated that there had been a lot of evidence collected to prove the existence of Atlantis. Researchers believe that one has to continue the quest, looking for other discoveries. As far as the significance of the lost continent's existence is concerned, Alexander Gorodnitsky, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences said that the discovery of Atlantis might change the concept of nature and life development on planet Earth. Gorodnitsky believes that the proved existence of supreme civilizations in the past will make the up-to-date Darwinist society reconsider its views. Alexander Gorodnitsky has been on several expeditions to the places, where Atlantis allegedly existed. He still hopes to organize a targeted mission in order to study the problem in detail. "I am sure that this issue is extremely complicated and important, so one has to deal with it seriously, on a serious scientific level," Gorodnitsky was quoted as saying.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10080_atlantis.html

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:20:14 am
 
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---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores.
  They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships.
Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.


Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.


Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.



At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.



I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.
________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.htm

[ 03-17-2006, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Desiree ]
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:20:43 am
 
I_am_that_I_am

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   posted 03-18-2006 12:03 AM                       
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As soon as I see the name Donato, I cringe...Nothing good ever is associated with that name, from what I have seen.

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.
E.C.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:21:07 am
Desiree

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   posted 03-18-2006 12:26 AM                       
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Well, he was only remotely connected with this find - he got a dispatch!

So what do you have against him? He is a seasoned archaeologist and working with Greg Little!
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:21:21 am
I_am_that_I_am

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   posted 03-18-2006 09:17 AM                       
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It was late last night when I posted, and may have confused him with someone else.....Brain still not working so good

--------------------
KNOW that as ye do unto the least of thy associates ye do
unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
without.  :)
E.C.

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:21:34 am
nekozuki

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   posted 03-18-2006 10:59 AM                       
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The flooded cities of the Mediterranean might be the Osirian civilizations not Atlantis. The Osirians are another lost civilization mystery. I believe there is information about them on about.com and they flourished the time as Atlantis.

--------------------
" Om Vasudevaya Namaha!"
With loving reverence, I bow to Lord Vishnu!

"Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is." - Lord Krishna, Bhagavad Gita

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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:21:55 am
Isis*

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Deep-Sea Soundings

In the first place, then, the testimony of the deep-sea soundings may be summarized in a few words. Thanks chiefly to the expeditions of the British and American gun boats, "Challenger" and "Dolphin" (though Germany also was associated in this scientific exploration) the bed of the whole Atlantic Ocean is now mapped out, with the result that an immense bank or ridge of great elevation is shown to exist in mid-Atlantic. This ridge stretches in a southwesterly direction from about fifty degrees north towards the coast of South America, then in a south-easterly direction towards the coast of Africa, changing its direction again about Ascension Island, and running due south to Tristan d'Acunha. The ridge rises almost sheer about 9,000 feet from the ocean depths around it, while the Azores, St. Paul, Ascension, and Tristan d'Acunha are the peaks of this land which still remain above water. A line of 3,500 fathoms, or say 21,000 feet, is required to sound the deepest parts of the Atlantic, but the higher parts of the ridge are only a hundred to a few hundred fathoms beneath the sea.
The soundings too showed that the ridge is covered with volcanic debris of which traces are to be found right across the ocean to the American coasts. Indeed the fact that the ocean bed, particularly about the Azores, has been the scene of volcanic disturbance on a gigantic scale, and that too within a quite measurable period of geologic time, is conclusively proved by the investigations made during the above-named expeditions.

Mr. Starkie Gardner is of opinion that in the Eocene times the British Islands formed part of a larger island or continent stretching into the Atlantic, and "that a great tract of land formerly existed where the sea now is, and that Cornwall, the Scilly and Channel Islands, Ireland and Brittany are the remains of its highest summits." (Pop. Sc. Review, July, 1878.)


Distribution of Fauna and Flora
The proved existence on continents separated by great oceans of similar or identical species of fauna and flora is the standing puzzle to biologists and botanists alike. But if a link between these continents once existed allowing for the natural migration of such animals and plants, the puzzle is solved. Now the fossil remains of the camel are found in India, Africa, South America and Kansas: but it is one of the generally accepted hypotheses of naturalists that every species of animal and plant originated in but one part of the globe, from which centre it gradually overran the other portions. How then can the facts of such fossil remains be accounted for without the existence of land communication in some remote age? Recent discoveries in the fossil beds of Nebraska seem also to prove that the horse originated in the Western Hemisphere, for that is the only part of the world where fossil remains have been discovered, showing the various intermediate forms which have been identified as the precursors of the true horse. It would therefore be difficult to account for the presence of the horse in Europe except on the hypothesis of continuous land communication between the two continents, seeing that it is certain that the horse existed in a wild state in Europe and Asia before his domestication by man, which may be traced back almost to the stone age. Cattle and sheep as we now know them have an equally remote ancestry. Darwin finds domesticated cattle in Europe in the earliest part of the stone age, having long before developed out of wild forms akin to the buffalo of America. Remains of the cave-lion of Europe are also found in North America.

Turning now from the animal to the vegetable kingdom it appears that the greater part of the flora of the Miocene age in Europe -- found chiefly in the fossil beds of Switzerland -- exist at the present day in America, some of them in Africa. But the noteworthy fact about America is that while the greater proportion are to be found in the Eastern States, very many are wanting on the Pacific coast. This seems to show that it was from the Atlantic side that they entered the continent. Professor Asa Gray says that out of 66 genera and 155 species found in the forest east of the Rocky Mountains, only 31 genera and 78 species are found west of these heights.

But the greatest problem of all is the plantain or banana. Professor Kuntze, an eminent German botanist, asks, "In what way was this plant" (a native of tropical Asia and Africa) "which cannot stand a voyage through the temperate zone, carried to America?" As he points out, the plant is seedless, it cannot be propagated by cuttings, neither has it a tuber which could be easily transported. Its root is treelike. To transport it special care would be required, nor could it stand a long transit. The only way in which he can account for its appearance in America is to suppose that it must have been transported by civilized man at a time when the polar regions had a tropical climate! He adds, "a cultivated plant which does not possess seeds must have been under culture for a very long period... it is perhaps fair to infer that these plants were cultivated as early as the beginning of the Diluvial period." Why, it may be asked, should not this inference take us back to still earlier times, and where did the civilization necessary for the plant's cultivation exist, or the climate and circumstances requisite for its transportation, unless there were at some time a link between the old world and the new?

Professor Wallace in his delightful Island Life, as well as other writers in many important works, has put forward ingenious hypotheses to account for the identity of flora and fauna on widely separated lands, and for their transit across the ocean, but all are unconvincing, and all break down at different points.

It is well known that wheat as we know it has never existed in a truly wild state, nor is there any evidence tracing its descent from fossil species. Five varieties of wheat were already cultivated in Europe in the stone age -- one variety found in the "Lake Dwellings" being known as Egyptian wheat, from which Darwin argues that the Lake dwellers "either still kept up commercial intercourse with some southern people, or had originally proceeded as colonists from the South." He concludes that wheat, barley, oats, etc., are descended from various species now extinct, or so widely different as to escape identification, in which case he says: "Man must have cultivated cereals from an enormously remote period." The regions where these extinct species flourished, and the civilization under which they were cultivated by intelligent selection, are both supplied by the lost continent whose colonists carried them east and west.

http://www.erbzine.com/mag11/1121.html#1896c
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:23:13 am
 
Carolyn Silver

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Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:27:12 am
15. Magnetic Reversals and Moving Continents

Index

8. Oersted & Ampére

9. The Lodestone

10. Gauss

11. The Magnetic Sun

12. Fluid Dynamos

13. Dynamo in the
Earth's Core

14. Magnetometers and
Tobacco Smoking

15. Magnetic Reversals
& Moving Continents

16. The Magnetosphere

17. Magnetic Planets Continents and Oceans

If you tabulate the elevations of all parts of the globe--including the ones covered by water--an interesting fact emerges. Those elevations--it turns out--are not smoothly distributed, but tend to cluster in one of two neighborhoods.
Most dry land has a modest elevation above sea level, while most of the ocean floor is about 3 kilometers (or 2 miles) lower down. The area of in-between depths, e.g. where the ocean is about 1 kilometer deep, is much less. An atlas will show that in the oceans around the continental US, for instance, for a certain distance from land the depth slowly increases, but then the sea-bottom plunges down steeply to the lower level, where it stays.

What does this mean? It means that the surface of the Earth is not a single terrain, varying smoothly, part of which happens to stick out above water. Rather, its regions belong to one of two types. The oceans tend to be uniformly deep, while the continents are separate chunks, thick enough to rise above water (or, at their edges, be covered by shallow seas).

(http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/Figures/wegener.gif)

Alfred Wegener
Continental Drift
Alfred Wegener, a German arctic explorer and geophysicist who lived in the early 1900s, was struck by the resemblance between the continents and ice-floes in the arctic oceans, resulting from the break-up of sheets of floating sea-ice. Just as ice-floes which have broken apart match along the line of break, so did the edges of some continents match, e.g. Africa and South America. Maybe those land masses, too, used to be together?
Wegener found other corresponding matches, e.g. between rock formations along matching edges, and in 1918 he proposed his theory of "continental drift"--that continents, like ice floes, drifted from one location to another. He believed the continents floated on deeper layers below them, which over millions of years gave way like a thick fluid and made the drift possible. The energy source was supposedly the internal heat of the Earth.

Wegener's idea encountered enormous resistance from established geophysicists. Sir Harold Jeffreys in Britain, in particular, pointed out that the deeper layers were not nearly fluid enough and would strongly resist the proposed motion. After Wegener died on an arctic expedition in 1930, only a handful of loyal supporters continued to promote his ideas. More evidence was needed, and it came from the Earth's magnetism.


Magnetic Reversals
After molten lava emerges from a volcano, it solidifies to a rock. In most cases it is a black rock known as basalt, which is faintly magnetic, like iron emerging from a melt--for which Gilbert already noticed a similar process. Its magnetization is in the direction of the local magnetic force at the time when it cools down.
Instruments can measure the magnetization of basalt. Therefore, if a volcano has produced many lava flows over a past period, scientists can analyze the magnetizations of the various flows and from them get an idea on how the direction of the local Earth's field varied in the past. Surprisingly, this procedure suggested that times existed when the magnetization had the opposite direction from today's. All sorts of explanation were proposed, but in the end the only one which passed all tests was that in the distant past, indeed, the magnetic polarity of the Earth was sometimes reversed.

Please Note: This web site regularly receives questions about reversals. Do they pose a danger to life on Earth? Is one due soon? How quickly do they take place? Click here to bring up four of those questions, with their answers.


(http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/Figures/midridge.gif)

Ocean Floor Magnetism

Mid-Atlantic Ridge
In the 1950s electronic magnetometers were developed. Unlike the older instruments, based on the compass needle, these could be towed behind an airplane or a ship. Oil companies were soon using them aboard airplanes, mapping the weak magnetism of rocks to help locate oil deposits. On land, the patterns of this magnetism seemed jumbled, with no meaningful order.
Extending those measurements to the oceans, around 1960, revealed a surprising difference. In the ocean floor the magnetization was orderly, arranged in long strips. The strips on the Atlantic ocean floor, in particular, all seemed parallel to the "mid-Atlantic ridge." That is a volcanic ridge running roughly north-to-south (with some zigs and zags), halfway between Europe-Africa and America. It is marked by the focus-points of earthquakes and by some volcanic islands, and more recently it was explored by research submarines, which have at times observed lava oozing out at its crest.


Ocean floor magnetization (USGS figure)

(http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/Figures/seaflor2.gif)


Not only were the magnetic strips lined-up with the central ridge, but their structure and distribution seemed remarkably symmetric on both sides: if (say) a narrow-wide pair of strips was observed at a certain distance east of the ridge, its mirror image was also found at about the same distance to the west.

Sea-Floor Spreading
This puzzling picture was explained in 1962 by Lawrence Morley (whose article was rejected by the journals as too speculative) and by Drummond Matthews and Fred Vine. They all proposed that the sea floor was in constant motion, pulling away from the central ridge at a rate of about one inch (2.5 cm) per year.
As the "plates" on each side are pulled away, lava emerges from the middle, solidifies and "records" the prevailing magnetic field. The newly formed basalt sticks to the plates and is also pulled away--some of it towards Europe and Africa, some towards America. Every half million years, on the average, the Earth's magnetic polarity reverses, and so does the magnetization of the ocean floor. Each strip therefore represents an epoch of one or the other magnetic polarity, and the symmetry is also explained. It is as if the sea-floor was a giant tape recorder, with twin tapes emerging from the mid-Atlantic ridge, recording the Earth's magnetism at the time they emerge and then traveling in opposite directions. Similar magnetic strips were also observed in all other oceans.


Sea-floor spreading (USGS figure)

(http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/Figures/seaflor1.gif)

If the sea-floor was moving, then continents adjoining them might share that motion, just as Wegener had guessed. The main difference now seems to be that rather than pushing their way through a semi-fluid on which they float, the continents (or some of them) ride on top of "conveyer belts" in that fluid. These are the "plates" which emerge at mid-ocean and go down again (at least in some cases) at the deep oceanic trenches, like the ones found near Japan or in the Caribbean Sea.
The science of the shaping of the Earth's crust goes by the name "tectonics," and the process described here is the essence of "plate tectonics" by the Earth's crust consists of distinct plates which are continually rearranged, sometimes carrying along continents or parts of continents. The entire motion is indeed driven by the Earth's internal heat.

The Pacific plate bordering California, for instance, is slowly rotating, moving northwards. The edge of California is attached to that plate and also moves northwards, but the bulk of the continent does not. The juncture between the two, where one slips by the other, follows in part the famous San Andreas fault.


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Next Stop: 16. The Magnetosphere


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Further Reading
In 1996 the US Geological Survey (USGS) published a book "This Dynamic Earth" by W. Jacquelyne Kious and Robert I Tilling. This book, in its entirety, is on the web, and can be accessed here. In clear language with many illustrations (including the ones shown above), it tells the story of plate tectonics much more completely than could be done here. One of its many interesting sections describes the life and work of Alfred L. Wegener.
For geophysicists only:"Brunhes' Research Revisited: Magnetization of Volcanic Flows and Baked Clays," by Carlo Laj, Catherine Kisel and Hervé Guillou, Eos (Transactions of Amer. Geophysical Union), 27 August 2002


http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/reversal.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:31:29 am
A Conversation with David Childress

"Maverick archaeologist and explorer David Hatcher Childress has combed the Indian Ocean, Australia and the Pacific in search of the astonishing truth about mankind's past." The author of Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean shares his insights about lost civilizations.

The very readable book, Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean, illustrated with stunning photographs, grabbed our attention. The author, an archaeologist, explorer and world traveler speaks with us about many subjects related to his studies and explorations of lost civilizations.

The Monthly Aspectarian: David, I'm almost through your Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean. Fascinating stuff. How did all this start for you?

David Childress: I got started at an early age. My parents, who are Americans, liked to travel and I was born in France. I was fortunate when I was younger that I got to go to a lot of places in Europe, Greece and Turkey and to Mexico and Hawaii. I've always been interested in history and mysteries of the past, which included Atlantis.

When I was nineteen and studying at the University of Montana. I had the opportunity to go to Taiwan as an English teacher. Then I headed for Nepal and the Himalayas and India and across Asia. I was in Afghanistan, and then through the Middle East, through Syria and Jordan to Israel. I worked in Israel for a while on a kibbutz. Eventually I went to Egypt. I'd always wanted to see the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx. This is all back in the late '70s.

Eventually I traveled through Africa for two and a half years and returned to India and then to China where I became one of the first tourists ever to travel around on my own. I returned to the U.S., where I started writing my books. The first book was called A Hitchhiker's Guide and Africa and Arabia. Then after that was my first lost cities book, which was called Lost Cities of China, Central Asia and India.

TMA: Why do you suppose mainstream archaeology, seemingly on purpose, suppresses information of civilizations older than Egypt and Mesopotamia?

DHC: Mainstream archaeology does have a resistance -- it's very conservative -- a resistance to civilization being a lot older than that. They have a resistance to man being in the Americas for any great extended period of time. Mainstream science says mankind has only been in the Americas since the last Ice Age, about 12,000 BC. But that date is continually being pushed back and many scientists in North and South America place mankind already in America 30, 40, 50 thousand, even 70 or 100 thousand BC. It's increasingly difficult for the mainstream to resist this, so slowly they are pushed back. Mainstream archaeology is now going to the oldest ruins in the world, the giant ruins in Malta. They say they're older than the Egyptian ruins.

TMA: So they are admitting that.

DHC: Yes, although they're saying that those ruins on Malta are 9,000 years old or so. Other geologists are saying that the Sphinx is over 10,000 years old, but the mainstream really hasn't acknowledged that yet.

TMA: The Sphinx is lined up with the Age of Leo, which makes it 12,000 to 14,000 years ago. I think that's fairly well established. It's obvious that that's water erosion on the body of the Sphinx..

DHC: Mainstream archaeologists still won't admit that. The tunnel system beneath the pyramids is pretty interesting, really.

TMA: Do you believe there's a Hall of Records hidden in the Great Pyramid and that we're going to find it and all the history is going to be laid out for us?

DHC: I do. There's a Hall of Records maybe underground in the Giza Plateau or beneath the Sphinx or possibly under the Pyramid . . . yes, I do believe that, and perhaps the Egyptian government is on the right track, going into those tunnels. In my books I write quite a bit about secret libraries and time capsules from ancient civilizations. Some of them have actually been found. Never this Hall of Records, though, that Edgar Cayce mentions, but the Cayce Foundation is spending millions of dollars trying to find it.

TMA: It has always seemed to me that one of the greatest crimes in recorded history was the burning of the library at Alexandria.

DHC: Yes, that's right. That's exactly the thing to keep in mind. Giant libraries full of important knowledge are just torched and destroyed. The same thing happened with the Emperor Chi Wong Ti of China. He ordered every book in China destroyed in 500 BC. This is the guy who built the Great Wall of China, and has that tomb with all the terra cotta warriors.

TMA: What goes on in these people's minds that they want to destroy the past?

DHC: What happens is that you have dictators, despots who want history to start with them. The past has been destroyed many times over. There are many countries where the past is wiped out and history starts again. The Catholics and the Spanish tried to do it in Central America.

TMA: Most recently, the Cambodians.

DHC: Yes, in Cambodia, too, where anybody, even people who could read and write and knew different languages -- they were all just taken out and killed. I just came back from Cambodia, as a matter of fact.

TMA: It's always been pretty obvious to me that the first parts of Genesis are a collection of older stories. What could the Tower of Babel possibly be but an advanced civilization that had something like the Internet.

DHC: That's a good analogy. I believe they used electricity in the past and they had flight. And they had horrific weapons like we do. The ancient Indian epics read like wild science fiction. People flying around in their airships blasting each other. Sumeria, for instance, I believe, was basically just an outpost of ancient India. Ancient India is said to go back 10, 20, 30 thousand years.

TMA: Doesn't mainstream anthropology tell us that 40,000 to 10,000 years ago the Cro-Magnon emerged? Who were these people 100,000 years ago if modern man emerged only 10 to 40,000 years ago?

DHC: It's believed by some anthropologists that the Neanderthal man still exists as the yeti and the wild men of Central Asia and other remote places; that small bands of Neanderthals still exist.

TMA: If they're there, what else could they be?

DHC: It has to be that the past is cyclical, and that history is cyclical. Modern scientists, modern historians, say, "Well, here's a graph. The cave man is down here." Then they draw a straight line up to the top corner of the graph, where modern man came in. But that's not history. History is this roller coaster of ups and downs and ages of science and knowledge crashing and then a dark age, and a stone age between these ages.

TMA: What in nature doesn't have its cycles.

DHC: Yes, right. In the story of Atlantis, too. It's a world before our own, a world like ours, one of certain sciences and knowledge of the world. They had mapped the world as round.

TMA: Some things are so obvious -- like the Nazca lines -- what are they if not to be seen from the air?

DHC: Yes, I think the Nazca lines are a lot of things together, actually. Some of the lines are crossed over. Some Nazca lines go for hundreds, even thousands of miles through the mountains, perfectly straight. They just take off. And they go over cliffs and knolls, places where you wouldn't be able to walk.

TMA: This doesn't seem to be a threat anymore, but if there were to have been full-scale nuclear exchange between us and the Soviets and technology was completely wiped out, if there was nuclear winter and there were only a few million survivors scattered around the world, how many generations would it take before our technology became mythology? In three or four generations, it would all be forgotten.

DHC: Yes, that's right.

TMA: So it could happen.

DHC: Things as obvious as leaving your car out in the field -- it's not going to last that long. It'll rust away, oxidize, and wandering tribes will take it apart and hammer it into spearheads. This happens today in Africa. It's not like it's going to sit there for hundreds or thousands of years for someone to come along and go, "Wow, they had Mercedes back then." Rather, it will just be the myths and tales from that era.

TMA: It's always seemed to me that the Great Pyramid in particular was built as a signal, as a beacon to the future. As a "Hey, look what we did. Obviously, we must have known something."

DHC: There are certain things, particularly the Great Pyramid, giant stone walls in Peru, [other artifacts] around the world, they're just sitting there in silent testimony of some advanced ancient civilization that built on a grand scale. They built with blocks of stone the size of semi trucks, and put them perfectly together and made buildings to last for thousands of years. And those buildings have lasted for thousands of years.

TMA: Engineering feats that we can't equal today. How did they cut those stones!

DHC: There are certain places around the world today that modern engineering and construction companies couldn't reproduce.

TMA: We don't have a crane big enough to move those stones.

DHC: That's right. And place them together -- even to hire a modern contractor to build something like the Great Pyramid would be such a huge undertaking that who would even do it.

TMA: One thing that does trouble me is how do we lose what we have? I understand how it can happen when there's a huge disaster, but those who built the pyramids knew more than the later Egyptians. How does that happen?

DHC: You've got to look at Egypt from a proper point of view. The Egyptian civilization lasted for thousands of years. The way we look back at ancient Greece and Rome today was how they looked back at ancient Egypt. As this remote, ancient civilization that lasted for thousands of years. They were children of this ancient civilization -- and over those thousands of years of time and history, Egypt had its ups and downs. Religious wars were fought, there were invaders who came in and took over the country or sacked it, there was a lot of intrigue within the country and there would have been, naturally, times of drought and environmental changes that would affect them. Egypt was kind of like Japan a couple hundred years ago, and China similarly, in that it tried to isolate itself from other parts of the world; they deemed themselves as more cultured and civilized than other countries who were considered barbarians.

TMA: We're used to this paradigm of progress -- as you said, that straight line between the cave man and where we are now. I think that is what makes it difficult to comprehend that the early Egyptians knew so much more than the later Egyptians. It's just hard to comprehend the loss of information when we're so used to the constant expansion of it.

DHC: It's also happened in Europe during the dark ages. The Greeks and the Romans had highly developed sciences. They knew steam engines and they had big libraries of books. They knew the world was round and we have even computers from that time like the device that's in the Athens museum today. But then a dark age hit Europe and science was lost, books were destroyed. The Catholic church suppressed science, basically. They were very much anti-technology. They didn't want people to read and write. The priests would do that for them. They didn't want people to have a book and read it for themselves. They wanted books to be hand copied by their monks in Latin that only they could read. So, how do you explain that? Well, it was like a forced dark age that was pressed upon at least the European world.

The past had its ecological disasters as well. And as you know, the history of the world is one of invasion and counter invasion, and giant migrations of people. It went on constantly here in the Americas even before Europeans got here.

The story of Atlantis and the story of ancient Egypt and the story of the Americas, like what the Hopi Indians say, is that warfare has gone on for many, many thousands of years. It didn't just start 6,000 years ago or something, it went on 10, 20, 30 thousand years ago. In fact, that's part of the story of Atlantis, of Atlantis fighting this war with the Mediterraneans.

TMA: The Osirian culture?

DHC: Yes, I would say like that culture and its sunken cities . . . that's part of the story of Atlantis, this big war between Atlantis and ancient Greece, pre-Greece, like the Osirians.

TMA: What's your best guess as to where Atlantis was?

DHC: I'm a traditionalist when it comes to Atlantis and I believe that like Plato said, Atlantis was out in the Atlantic ocean. I tend to think that the mid-Atlantic ridge which the Azore islands are part of, was Atlantis, and Atlantis is below the ocean. Look at northern Atlantis, called Atlan, which was around Holland and Brittany and France, there's quite a bit of evidence for sunken cities there, plus some evidence around the Canary Islands and even around Florida, Bimini, those giant stones.

TMA: When Atlantis went down, that would have been the flooding of the Mediterranean, yes?

DHC: That's what I think, and that's what happened to Malta and other areas. When Atlantis sank, there was this giant tidal wave that basically washed through the Mediterranean valley, which was a Dead Sea or Death Valley kind of place but with lakes in it. But the entire Mediterranean was flooded at that time, which flooded all the coastal areas. I would make that around 10,000 BC, the end of the last Ice Age.

TMA: Then the Sphinx would already be there.

DHC: Yes, and certain ruins in Egypt were already there. That's what I call pre-dynastic ruins. There's a number of them in Egypt and other places.

TMA: If a giant wave flooded the Mediterranean, wouldn't there be some evidence for it going west as well?

DHC: You bet. We have areas at that same time in Mexico and the United States that were inundated and destroyed. There are Mayan glyphs showing that. We have the mystery of the Olmac people down in the Tabasco area of Mexico -- we have these giant, giant heads in these swamps. It may take something like bulldozers to go in and dig these out of the swamps. So yes, it would definitely would have been on both sides of the world. And as you know, cataclysmic earth changes happen fairly regularly.

TMA: Well, we know about the crater in the Yucatan, so we know that things do happen occasionally!

I'm curious about Rock Lake just up here west of Milwaukee.

DHC: Yes, I've been scuba diving up there. Right around Rock Lake, first of all, is this ancient pyramid site, Pyramid of the Sun and Pyramid of the Moon, just like down in Mexico.

TMA: Are you saying two hours north of Chicago there's a pyramid?

DHC: That's right, it's in southern Wisconsin. There's two large pyramids. It's a state park. These are above water, anybody can go there. Just drive your car, have a picnic . . .

TMA: Constructed by humans. Have they been dated?

DHC: They date them to about 1200 AD as the end of the time [of their construction]. That's when these areas were destroyed.

TMA: What happened?

DHC: Some Siberian invaders came down from Canada and they beseiged cities in Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio and Missouri, in Iowa -- they killed everybody.

TMA: What's in the lake?

DHC: There are these stone pyramids that are like tents. They're in murky, muddy water so it's hard to get good pictures of them. There's little doubt that these are artificial. A lot of people think even the lake was artificially created.

TMA: As for the pyramids that are above water -- are they of cut stone?

DHC: No, they're piled-up stones. They're not really megalithic. It's not like finding something like in Egypt or Stonehenge or South America.

TMA: That's a little less exciting.

DHC: Those pyramids up in Wisconsin are very interesting but they're not in the same class as those in South America.

TMA: It was Christians who burned the library at Alexandria?

DHC: That was a schism that kind of created the Catholic church. It happened right after the Nicene Creed and the Ephesus councils. It was one special Christian group of fanatics who went to the library and burned it. That's when they killed Hypacia. Hypacia was a female mathematician and orator in Alexandria who was also, in a sense the manager of the library. She was torn from her chariot on the streets of Alexandria and killed by a rioting group of people. After killing her, they went and burned the library.

This is still going on today -- where people are afraid of knowledge and want to see books banned. You have that with fundamental Christian movements who are also anti-Catholic in many cases. Anything that's not in the Bible that they keep in their church is heresy and wrong and shouldn't be taught in schools.

TMA: So you believe that there are still Hall of Records level libraries still in existence?

DHC: Yeah, sure.

TMA: Where? Or do we want to tell?

DHC: Well, they're secret, they're underground. I believe in some cases these people are like custodians of these places. The places can be fairly obvious but we don't even see them. You're probably familiar with what they call the secret libraries of the Vatican. Only certain special priests can go down there. Maybe one day we'll all get a chance to see what's really there.

TMA: People talk about libraries that are still in existence in Tibet, but haven't the Chinese destroyed everything?

DHC: Tibet is a huge, vast area and most of Tibet is still remote. There's still plenty of places to hide things. Areas of Tibet would be a great place for your secret headquarters, even today, as long as you have the right kind of technology.

TMA: Are we at the end of a flowering? Or are we going to continue on? Because if this is as far as we get, it seems to me it isn't worth it.

DHC: (laughs) Well, I believe that we are on the edge of a Golden Age but things may well get kind of worse before they get better just because the world does need a certain restructuring. Many nations still cling to what are essentially backward and destructive beliefs. I travel all over the world and when you go to a lot a countries -- just offhand, take Saudi Arabia. We're talking about a nation -- and these are total absolute monarchies, too -- that is amazingly repressive. The kind of rules in that country are just unacceptable even to more conservative Americans. If you're a woman in those kind of countries, you're incredibly oppressed. Women aren't even allowed to drive. It goes beyond that, too, into absolute control by theocracy, of everything you do. You are forced to be part of an oppressive religion. You have no choice. You'll be literally publicly executed if you try to resist. It's horrible. I've traveled pretty much all over, and unfortunately, that's pretty standard for much of the world.

Getting back to these secret societies, you know, people like the Masons or the Knights Templar and like that, no matter what you think of those groups, they created this country. One of the things they made sure of when they created it was that America had separation of church and state and liberties and guaranteed freedoms.

TMA: Unprecedented.

DHC: They're just unheard of in most countries. Your freedom to be super right wing conservative fundamentalist Christian who thinks that any secret society is bad and ought to be banned -- you are totally free to have that opinion.

TMA: Where are we right now and what do you see in the fairly immediate future?

DHC: We're kind of at the end and we're at the beginning, too. I think it's both things.

TMA: We're not talking about the kind of crash that takes us back to the Stone Age?

DHC: I think we have the level of technology now where even though there'll be some kind of a crash, it won't be completely total. It may change the economic systems and the balance of power around the world and even the way people think about their lives. But it's not like the end of the world where we all have to go back and live in caves. In many part of the world it will be like that. It's a paradox of modern civilization.

As an example, you go to New Guinea. You'll have your nice glass of champagne just before you exit a 747 jet into Port Moresby, and then you're faced with a world that's like a Stone Age world. People who live there, they are literally are like cave men who carry clubs around and whack each other whenever they have a chance. They have no concept of what a 747 really is or how it works. You see what I mean? And this is happening right now. Much of the world was a Stone Age world 10,000 years ago but that wasn't everyplace. There were certain pockets of science and technology that existed, just like today.

It's happening today and it happened in the past. All thing cycle around. We are the Atlanteans. We are those people. We're almost repeating what happened in the past.

TMA: Have we learned anything? Are we any less likely to destroy ourselves?

DHC: I believe the point is to learn, and figure out just who we are.

TMA: If we're going to take our place in the galaxy, we're going to have to make our peace on this planet.

DHC: That's right. We have to mature as a planet, and we're doing that, slowly . . . although for a lot of people, it's happening pretty fast.


David Hatcher Childress was born in France, and raised in the mountains of Colorado and Montana. At nineteen, he left the United States on a six-year journey across Asia, Africa and the Pacific. An ardent student of history, archaeology, philosophy and comparative religion, he has authored numerous articles which have appeared in publications around the world. His many books include A Hitchhiker's Guide to Africa & Arabia, Anti-Gravity & the World Grid, Lost Cities & Ancient Mysteries of South America and others.

Currently he travels the globe in search of lost cities and ancient mysteries. He also leads small groups of similarly interested individuals to many of these sites, including some mentioned in Lost Cities of Ancient Lemuria & the Pacific. For more information on Mr. Childress' books and expeditions/tours, please write or call: Adventures Unlimited, Box 22, Stelle, IL 60919; 815/253-6390.

http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/1999/April/499-03.htm

[ 07-23-2006, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Carolyn Silver ]


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:31:59 am
 
thegreatone
New Member
Member # 3178

Rate Member   posted 07-23-2006 03:00 AM                       
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i have a hard time believing that antlantis was in fact in the atlantic. i could be wrong but it just doesnt seem logical. if it was in fact there then i think its safe to say we will never find evidence of it. for to sink a continent to the depths of the atlantic sea floor it would take some MAJOR geological events that i doubt would leave a trace of existence.
Also i believe any story told enough times is going to acquire some inaccuracies. i trully believe it was in the mediteranean. maybe the original story was it was protected by the pillars of atlas in stead of it laid beyond.
truthfully we dont know for sure yet but like i said its such an old story and told a million times over so it got to have SOME inaccuracies.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

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Posts: 16 | From: newport NC | Registered: Jul 2006   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:32:00 am
 
thegreatone
New Member
Member # 3178

Rate Member   posted 07-23-2006 03:00 AM                       
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i have a hard time believing that antlantis was in fact in the atlantic. i could be wrong but it just doesnt seem logical. if it was in fact there then i think its safe to say we will never find evidence of it. for to sink a continent to the depths of the atlantic sea floor it would take some MAJOR geological events that i doubt would leave a trace of existence.
Also i believe any story told enough times is going to acquire some inaccuracies. i trully believe it was in the mediteranean. maybe the original story was it was protected by the pillars of atlas in stead of it laid beyond.
truthfully we dont know for sure yet but like i said its such an old story and told a million times over so it got to have SOME inaccuracies.

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

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Posts: 16 | From: newport NC | Registered: Jul 2006   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:33:27 am
Carolyn Silver

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Member # 2287

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   posted 07-24-2006 03:40 AM                       
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Sure, it existed in the Mid-Atlantic! here have been several reports of underwater ruins in the Atlantic, but they are so deep that they can only be found by submarine. Also, geologist Christian O'Brien has even marked out an area in the Azores that was once above water, an area about the sixe of Spain. Follow the link and you will find some great maps.


quote:
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SURVEY OF ATLANTIS

A brief compilation of evidence to encourage further scientific research and analysis of the issues by specialists to prove or disprove the O'Brien thesis of the recent existence of a large Mid-Atlantis Ridge island centred on the Azores.

INTRODUCTION

Christian O'Brien in Chapter 18 of The Shining Ones features the basic historical and geological evidence which identifies the Azores as the site of the Island of Atlantis. In an outstanding career as exploration geologist he is no stranger to successfully challenging established perceptions and raises the key issue of the deep crustal rifting associated with such flood basalt constructions.

He has produced the survey of the Island, shown within the attached documents taken from Admiralty Charts, which have now been superseded by the more accurate Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map also shown. Further detailed hydrographic input is required in order to present a even clearer picture to allow further studies and the siting for new sediment cores in un-disturbed areas.

The technology needed to prove or disprove the Atlantis issue is now available. Science has reached the point of being able to understand both the creation of' such large structures and the subsequent catastrophic movements in the earths crust, which have destroyed them. Finding and dating the remains of fresh water life at depths of up to 4000 metres, finding coral, sandy beaches and volcanic material below sea level and identifying former river valleys is within reach and we look forward to providing further news on this subject later in the year.

So far this century there has been a confirmed report of a one mile rise in the floor of the ocean 576 miles north of Azores when a trans-atlantic cable broke. Dr David F. Zhirov in 1970 reported sand beaches and coral at a depths of 2 miles south of the Azores. Confirmed evidence exists that sections of the Mid-Atlantic ridge have been above sea level in the past and fresh water diatoms have been found 2 miles down in the Azores area dated 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

Volcanic material described as un-dissolved tachylite was found on Telegraph Bank 500 miles north of Azores, indicating that it had been laid down above sea level at some time between 50,000 BC and 10,000 BC. Sediment core analysis at locations off the coast of Africa have proved a 2 mile sinkage of volcanic island structures similar to those of the Azores.

The more detailed evidence provided by the latest underwater surveys will assist in identify the former glacial sea level, and locating the river canyons of' a large island where rivers Joined the sea before sea levels rose, thus matching the river canyon features of the American, European and African continental shelves.

Open minds are required to concentrate current resources on the many disciplines required to re-create or resolve this mystery which has immense importance to our understanding of human origins and human diffusion. In particular, migrations from Africa to the America's from 60,000 BC.

Important knowledge has been gathered at other sites on flood basalt formations, collapsed volcanic cones, plate tectonics, deep crustal rifting together with the rebound by up to 1km of the thick and old earths crust freed from the weight of glacial ice and the compensatory sinkage of perhaps up to 4km In the fragile young and thin oceananic crustal areas adjacent to major active fault zones.

The Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map, contoured in metres, shows the islands of the Azores as the volcanic peaks of the worlds greatest Mountain range. The area is bounded on the west by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rift valley fault, to the north by the Kurchatov Fracture Zone, on the east by deep ocean, and on the whole southern flank by the massive and deep East Azores Fracture Zone. Here we can see the three major tectonic plates which converge in this fragile crustal area, making it perhaps the most unstable structure on the planet.

There is no doubt that world sea levels have risen on average some 400 feet since the maximum influence of the Ice Age, although the identification of shore lines at this date around 16,500 BC must be considered in the light of much greater compensatory movements in the earths crust and other factors. Certainly a large island at this latitude would have been a suitable glacial refuge for plants, animals and man, during a highly inhospitable, cold and extremely dry climatic phase with so much of the earths moisture locked tip within Ice sheets.

Sea level rises may have been relatively stable in the area of Atlantis until two accelerated sea rises, due to massive melt water discharges, from land/ice locked lakes around 12,000 BC (50-40cm per annum) and 9,300 BC (30-20 mm per annum). A third and final accelerated rise took occured between 6,000 and 5,500 BC as result of further melt water discharges. The process of' sea level rise took place as the earth warmed to the highest levels recorded for over 120,000 years, peaking before 2350 BC by some 3°C higher than current levels.

The observational evidence of the geological structure of the Azores Islands, above and below current sea level, does provide evidence of river systems, which must have been created by a much larger land area. However not enough convincing evidence exists because of substantial past volcanic activity, subsidence and land slippage within the area. This creates problems in searching both for ancient remains or biological evidence that may still exist.

Catastrophic flooding, collapse and sinking at around 9,500 BC has been suggested by many historical sources and it has now become a simple matter for science to prove or disprove the thesis. Confirmation and dating of a very large sunken island requires access to and analysis of just a few sediment cores and a search for underwater structures in key locations. These may exist from just below the surface of the sea down to a depth of 11,000 feet.

It is important to realise that the O'Brien survey and the small adjustment for tilt re- creates the island as clearly described by Plato and many other independent and unconnected sources. The major building structures, if they still exist, will lie to the south west of the great plain in an area covered by the greatest depth of.' water close to the catastrophic crustal rifting of the East Azores Fault Zone, which can be clearly seen on the Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map.

We have featured more than 30 important books on our recommended reading list, which in total have produced a weight of evidence to support the basic thesis presented by O'Brien, spanning from the common records of the earliest antiquity to serious modern research. Only now are we beginning to appreciate the stature and reliability of the records presented by Solon and Plato, and accept recent Scientific explanations for related dramatic crustal rifting movements and vertical movements of the earths crust.

On a world wide scale there is common story of a great flood preceded by exceptional rainfall and accompanied by earth quakes and volcanic eruptions. It may be of significance to state that tsunami tidal waves were not directly mentioned in connection with this great flood story and that modern science has identified and dated three distinct rapid rises and three small declines in sea level since the ice age as the worlds climate warmed. The first great flood may have held more significance to early man and Atlantis, than the many subsequent floods and other natural disasters. The latter include interruptions to the circulatory flow of the Gulf Stream through fresh water input/ice melt, and episodic cometary debris impacts.

We welcome further input into this project from all interested parties. The more detailed hydrographic information, which we hope to obtain from the Portuguese authorities and the Southampton University Oceanographic Department, will allow a few small steps to be made to either dismiss the existence of Atlantis at this site or confirm the detailed evidence to re-create the great legend as fact.
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http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/survey.html
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Posts: 403 | Registered: Jan 2005   


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:33:53 am
 
Trent

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Member # 2174

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   posted 07-24-2006 03:53 AM                       
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Plato mentions elephants. Mammoth and mastodon bones have been said to be dredged up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge from time to time (per the Atlantic Ocean thread in the Atlantis forum).

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"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

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Posts: 387 | From: DeKalb, IL | Registered: Oct 2004   
 


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: Carolyn Silver on August 11, 2008, 02:35:11 am
1953 cont.

Where Calypso may have lived, By Egerton Sykes (a summary)


The Azores when Prince Henry the Navigator (Portuguese explorer a descendant of England's own John Gaunt) ordered the expedition in the 15th Century were found to be uninhabited. According to Legend Prince Henry was in possession of an Ancient Map upon which the position of the Islands was marked, and overlooked the significance of this map for previous Trans-Atlantic contacts before Columbus. The only evidence of Human Habitation when he arrived was a Bronze Statue Equestrian who was pointing on a Horse towards America on the Island of Corvo. Some 250 years later, small hoard of Cathegenian coins was found, dating back to the 3rd Century B.C., and was described by the Swedish Archaeologist, Podolin. The presence of the coins established the fact that this island of Corvo was a trade center as far back as that date. Unfortunately, the statue and coins are missing, one lost to sea, and the other unknown to who the collector was. Humboldt mentions a cave on one side of the Island that first explorers found several inscriptions, and two or three statues. The writing was thought to be Hebrew only because they could not read it, but is very likely was Lybian-Punic, or Phoenician. The traces of the Caves location has also been lost all of, which can maybe traced in accounts in some Portuguese Library. The mythical Irish Maeldune, who visited the Islands in search of the slayer of his father, mentions an Island where a horde of Giant Ants as large as foals waited to seize the crew of his ships. Today these very rocks are called in the Azores, the Formigas or Ants? Maeldune reported landing on an Island where he saw, "A vast multitude of people on the sea, rushing along the crests of the waves with great outcry. As soon as they landed, they went to the green where they arranged a horse race." Since no less than eight of the nine coins found on Corvo had horses. Long before that, Statius Sebosus said the Azores were 6,000 Stades (750 miles) West of Maderia, and named two of the Islands Pluvalia, and Capraria, a fact well known to compilers of guides to navigators. Homer's reference to Calypso's Isle, 20 days sail from the islands of the Phaecians (The West Indies) obviously refers to the Azores. The Egyptians 1,500 B.C. had passed by the Azores, but is there earlier evidence of the land once being larger and inhabited?

The Swedish Scientist, Prof. Petterson, says that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was still above water fifteen thousand years ago. The fact that Santa Maria, the first island to be colonized again, is not volcanic tends to disprove the theories that the Islands were thrown up by volcanic action alone.

Webmaster Notes:

The islands the Greeks noted is broken up as Pluval-ia, and Caprar-ia which Pluval is the Latin equivalent of praefui, or as an adjective form Praesens i.e. present and in person. Also, refers to a safe harbor indirectly with praesidium name, which recalls Posidium. The other angle is proveho, to carry forward or sail onward in latin, and lastly profluo or to flow forth to rise. This indicates that the Pluval-ia is an island that maybe-volcanic active, or rises high and that some Egyptian Pharaoh's name had marked it as his own. The Caprar Island almost has the Calypso name, or Caply-so.

Latin Capere means take, or seize, and Caprae is for a 'goat'.

In Egyptian however Khepri is a magical serpents with human heads and wings in Taut XI

And is the name of Kheprer for the self-begotten sun beetle itself a form of Ra.

It is also a name for the spring period and the Zodiac sign of Cancer being the

opposite of Capricorn like Tropic of Cancer had replaced? The Islands may still yield

their original names yet!


http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2583/calypso.htm


Title: Re: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (Original)
Post by: BlueHue on April 16, 2009, 02:46:16 pm
Hi ........Carolyn,

In my Theory the Mid- Atlantic Ridge did not exist befored 1055 bc.
Nor did the INDIAN ocean ridge exist before 855 bc.
:'( :o :'(

Mr Jacques HEBERT in his Book" Atlantis the forgotten Solution :" dd 2006,
positioned the ISLE of CALYPSO(+ OGYGA or EAEA.) on SOCOTRA in the INDIAN -Ocean
.


Could I bother you to comment on my #3-RULES of THUMB  ?

( They are in blue print  at the bottom of THIS Posting !)