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Atlantis => the Scientific Atlantis => Topic started by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:46:18 am



Title: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:46:18 am








                                             Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In 





Dreamweaver
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Rate Member   posted 07-19-2004 09:15 PM                       
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Greetings,

I've just signed up and have enjoyed reading the forums.

I have a rather simple question that has probably been asked before.

Forgive me, as I am no scientist, just an enthusiast who wants to learn as much as I can.

If you piece back all the continents together to (re)form Pangea, how much room does this leave
for Atlantis?

I believe Atlantis existed, and I ascribe to the date and size given by Plato, but placing Atlantis as a very large island in the Atlantic Ocean does present this problem.

Could someone explain how this can work please? Also, I grasp ideas best with visuals, so any maps would be helpful as well.

Thanks.
 
 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:48:36 am







atalante
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   posted 07-19-2004 09:46 PM                       
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Here is a map of Pangea.

As you can see, there does not appear to be any space in the mid-Atlantic where a continent like Atlantis could have existed.

(http://faculty.gg.uwyo.edu/heller/Historical%20Geology/Historical%20Lect%209/Pangea.jpg)

http://faculty.gg.uwyo.edu/heller/Historical%20Geology/Historical%20Lect%209/pangea_map.htm



But perhaps a modest size island in the Caribbean could be squeezed into this map.

On the other hand, the impact zone around 65 million years ago which killed the dinosaurs may
account for the seemingly missing (modern) land near that impact zone.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:51:22 am







Dreamweaver
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Thank you Atalante.

This is the main problem I've encountered with the 'Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean' theory -- unless the areas filled in with the ligher shade of gray could account for this landmass, and it was a part of the mid-Atlantic ridge.

I have also read that the ancient Greeks named the whole ocean the Atlantic, which could place it anywhere else in the world (like the Pacific) but this idea seems to be strongly rejected by most
people as it has its drawbacks.

I do think there's more of possibility of finding a great landmass here though, be it Atlantis or not.
I am pretty much split evenly on almost every Atlantis location theory, as I find nearly equal
amounts of pros and cons in every place I look for it.

Oh Atlantis, where are you? ...


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:53:47 am








Absonite

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  posted 07-19-2004 10:54 PM                       
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atalante,

Why are you still spreading that false theory as fact?

Dinosaurs were not killed by any meteor.

They became extinct because they had a brain the size of a walnut, 40 ton bodies and they ate
all their food. 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:56:45 am









dhill757

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   posted 07-19-2004 11:07 PM                       
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Actually, I have to differ with Atalante.

Put the pieces of the continents back together and, though South America and Africa fit nicely, you really have to work to get North America into Europe. There might well be a missing piece. Whether it was continental size, who can say, but I think that the Laurasia theory really needs some more investigation here.

Scientists dismiss the possibility too lightly.

Actually, there's several ways that Atlantis could have existed, and they aren't all dependent on it being of a continental size either.

I just had a debate with Essan about this, so I'll just post the same points from one of the other threads:

There are several ways that Atlantis might have existed:

1. The raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Depending on how many years it was above the surface, it needn't have been a barren rock. The Azores certainly aren't barren rocks, they have a lot of flora and fauna on them. Any Mid-Atlantic Ridge as Atlantis theory presumes that it was much like this. The temperatures there are almost a constant 70 degrees year round and the area gets a lot of rainfall.

2. Atlantis, like Surtsey, could have been one of the many volcanic islands "spit out" by the volatile Atlantic, then taken back at a later date. Iceland is such an island. One of the most telling parts of the article I posted is that there is a lava sheet that stretches 20 miles thick:






Quotes from the Philadelphia Inquirer:



"Located traces of enormous sheets of ancient lava as much as 20 miles thick that spewed from undersea volcanoes. One such deposit covered almost four million square miles on the bottom of the Atlantic, stretching from eastern Canada to Spain and Africa's Ivory Coast."

"For instance, an expedition a year ago in the tropical Atlantic turned up evidence, buried in seafloor sediment, of repeated episodes of rapid global warming that led to massive plant and animal extinction in the distant past."




Both these could have something to do with Atlantis. Depending on how long it took for the lava to accumulate, Atlantis could be beneath the lava.

"Repeated episodes of global warming that led to mass plant and animal extinction"

also implies times where the Ice age could have come to an end quickly, bringing about massive tsunamis and flooding. Whatever we think we know, it is plain from the article that we still need to learn a lot more about the oceans.




3. Laurasia, this would imply a much older Atlantis, perhaps. I can certainly see that there is a "piece" missing from the continental plates between North America and Europe. Even if we take cotinental drift as a complete fact, the continents have been drifting apart for millions of years, we can only assume we know exactly what the map of the world looked like during all those earth changes.

4. The water levels being lower during the Ice Age, Atlantis could have been simply a larger version of one of the island chains we still have in the Atlantic now - the Azores, Madeiras, Canaries, etc. Yes, this would mean that Atlantis was smaller than Plato mentioned it being, but if you look at the description - one large central city surrounded by mountains and a large, flat rectangular plain, he does seem to be describing something along the lines of a large island rather than something of continental size.

5. Atlantis, according to the Oera Linde book, was also presumed to be a sunken area off Holland. I know very little about that, but I have heard that the sea is at it's shallowest in the area where this "other Atlantis" (circa 2193 for it's destruction), was supposed to have occurred.

6. Riven has also mapped out a bathymetric map of a area of the Atlantic that could have been Atlantis. I don't know where he got the information, but it takes in an area just east f the west of the Azores that includes both that island chain, Madeiras and the Canaries. Where is the proof that it exists? Well, there were underwater ruins found by the Russians found by the Ampere Seamounts, steps and walls, back in 1978, investigated all the more in subsequent expeditions.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 10:58:40 am








Riven

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  posted 07-20-2004 03:02 AM                       
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Dreamweaver;

If you were to piece back all the continents when they were together,
what year would you arrive at?

Let's say for arguments sake that the continental plates move from 1 - 2 cm per year.

Let's say 2 to be on the safe side if I stand to be corrected.



http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/zh.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean



So the Atlantic is around 3000 miles from America to N.Africa.

3000 miles X 5280 ft=15,840,000 ft.

15,840,000 ft X 12 inches =error on my calculator, hee hee.

=190,080,000 inches / 2.54 cm 74,834,645 cm.

74,834,645 / 2 cm per year =37,417,322 years ago.



Now then, was Atlantis around at this time?

Atlantis, the Continent, probably formed sometime after the halfway point of the split or at least
15 million years ago.

Either from a piece left over from the split or the erupting magma from the ocean floor.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:00:04 am








Tom Hebert
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  posted 07-20-2004 03:49 AM                       
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Dreamweaver,


You have to remember that Pangea is just a theory--not a very good one in my opinion.


 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:01:59 am









Essan

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   posted 07-20-2004 05:52 AM                       
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If Atlantis existed in the Atlantic, it could not be a 'continent' in a geological sense.

Continents do not disappear.

The nearest continents get to sinking beneath the sea is when shallow seas cover their fringes -
as is the case today with NW Europe (around Britain) and SE N America (Bahamas).

There could have been a fairly large island, formed in one of the ways Dhill describes - most likely
(like the Azores plateau) through volcanic eruptions along the Mid Atlantic Ridge or as a consequence of lowered sea levels during the last ice age.

My own opinion is that it's very unlikely there was ever any large, habitable, landmass in the mid Atlantic though.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:04:33 am








Essan

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   posted 07-20-2004 05:59 AM                       
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Incidently, regarding the Azores plateau:

when this formed it would have been in the Mid Atlantic (which would have been narrower then) and could have been mostly above sea level. A bit like Iceland.

As the Atlantic continued to widen, the plateau was left on one side of the mid Atlantic ridge, and slowly sank.

So if Atlantis existed several tens of millions of years ago, and took several million years to sink, then we've found it.




Some good maps of the Atlantic here: http://curragh.univ-brest.fr/~goslin/SIRENA/SIRENA_2/why.html



This map http:
//curragh.univ-brest.fr/~goslin/SIRENA/SIRENA_2/images/medium_images/Natl_seismicity.jpg


shows well the sunken continental fringe around Britain (and also off Newfoundland: could this be a
new candidate I wonder?) and the lack of any continental area in the mid Atlantic.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:20:44 am








Riven

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  posted 07-20-2004 06:31 AM                       
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Essan;

Continents do not just disappear?

Everything disappears,entire planets,solar systems,stars etc.

Though Atlantis was not a Huge Continent like America or Russia perhaps, then consider this.

Atlantis most likely formed about 15-10 million years ago say half the size of America.

My Theory predicts that a Huge Asteroid crashed where Iceland is situated which also mysteriously is at the start of the Atlantic ridge. Then a huge transform fracture also erupted sinking half of Atlantis. Then another asteroid hit at the Tores seamount nearer Atlantis city, adding to more cataclysmal destruction.

Atlantis disappeared over time to it's remnant last recorded around 9600 bC, or 6482 bC according to my theory.

I favor this date also because of the differences between the Greek Moon Cycles and the Egyptian Sun Cycles as well as my ecliptic alignment of Planets based on the Eye of Ra Myths and Nov 1st, All Saints day which coincidently a great Tsunami destroyed Lisbon Portugal,N.Africa and the Atlantic islands even as far as Azores. Yet these tsunamis caused by an earthquake from plate pressures were only about 10 meters high!

Could you imagine the waves from a huge Asteroid? I think that this is also relevant with the 40-60k bC Tsunami that destroyed the W African coast and Cape Verde as well which perhaps could have been from the initial impact.

Also take into account my recent discovery that the myth about Tartarus(Hades) tells of two Brazen anvils falling from the sky, sort of like the myth of Phaethon who burned up the Earth.

It is easier to simplify the disappearance of a continent gradually rather than suddenly in this case.

Remember,water is soluable.

www.mts.net/~perasa


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:22:04 am









atalante
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   posted 07-20-2004 10:28 AM                       
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Riven,

You were pretty close in your attempt to date (37 million years ago, using only a pocket calculator) the time when seafloor began to spread from the current mid-Atlantic Ridge.

Here is what I found by consulting the book Continental Drift, by Don and Maureen Tarling, 1971, page 82.

Seafloor spreading was taking place around Labrador (i.e. WEST of Greenland) during 80 million to 65 million years ago.

However Labrador spreading stopped around 65-55 million years ago. (The book is too old to mention that this occurred at roughly the same time as the major impact at the Yucatan peninsula, 60 million years ago)

Beginning around 55 million years ago, the current style of seafloor spreading (from the mid-Atlantic ridge) had become dominant.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:23:33 am








Tom Hebert
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  posted 07-21-2004 06:58 AM                       
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I think there is still plenty of room for a continent-sized Atlantis.

We should remember that continental drift, plate techtonics, etc. are only theories.


Tom


 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:25:02 am








atalante
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   posted 07-21-2004 08:50 AM                       
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dhill,

You gave a suggestion that "Laurasia" may be consistent with a continent for Atlantis.
Perhaps you can comment on the following scenario, which is a conventional explanation of Laurasia.

During the Mesozoic period (245 to 65 million years ago), reptiles ruled the earth; and Pangea broke up into 6 major continental plates.

During the first breakup, Pangea separated into: a combined pair of northern plates (Laurasia); and a bundle of 4 southern plates (Gondwanaland).

reference: http://www.fact-index.com/m/me/mesozoic.html

In summary, it seems that Laurasia NEVER contained any "missing" continent (other than Europe/Asia/America) -- because Laurasia itself was originially assembled as part of Pangea.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:26:20 am








atalante
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   posted 07-21-2004 09:53 AM                       
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Riven,

Let's followup on your suggestion about walking the Atlantic continents back in time to the beginning of their spread around the Mid-Atlantic ridge.
Somewhere around 65-55 million years ago, we arrive at a situation where a) Labrador spreading, b) Iceland, and c) the Celtic shelf (around Great Britain) --- are adjacent to each other.

Presumably the Celtic shelf was sinking, perhaps being melted from underneath, and its continental material was trying to spread out. This would put stress on the continental plates near the Celtic shelf.

Then the asteroid impact at 65 million years ago added enough instantaneous stress to start tearing the continents apart from each other. After the tearing had started, it was just about like tearing an 8 x 11 sheet of paper into two pieces (but on a much larger scale), so the tearing process continued. Europe was torn away from America at the current location of the mid-Atlantic rift/ridge.

The currently known contintents are all probably around 400 million years old. They were originally part of Pangea. So in my opinion, its unlikely that a new continent called Atlantis formed at 15 million years ago, and then conveniently "disappeared".

The other continental matter has endured for 400 million years (plus or minus a few hundred million years).

What would make a continent like Atlantis so special that it both "formed and dissolved" in roughly 5% of the time which all the other continents have survived?


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:27:47 am









Anteros

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   posted 07-21-2004 08:23 PM                       
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Dreamweaver said:

quote:
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If you piece back all the continents together to (re)form Pangea, how much room does this leave for Atlantis?
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Atalante said:


quote:
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Here is a map of Pangea... The currently known contintents are all probably around 400 million years old. They were originally part of Pangea.
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Riven said:


quote:
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Atlantis, the Continent, probably formed sometime after the halfway point of the split or at least 15 million years ago.
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Essan said:


quote:
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Continents do not disappear.
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Absonite said:


quote:
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Dinosaurs were not killed by any meteor. They became extinct...etc.
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Yadda, Yadda, Yadda!! You are all slaves of Uniformitarianism!! Are Dhill757 and Tom Hebert the only sane people in here?!?

Why do you slavishly adhere to theories and/or ideas created and perpetuated by people with something at stake in the bargain??

The fact is that we don't know what happened in ancient times and everything else is just guess work! Your guess is as good as mine!! The best we have are the "myths" handed down to us by our ancestors and in my opinion they are a better starting point than the guesses and wishes we get from today's so called experts; all of whom have their fingers in the pie!!

Uniformitarianism is a religion, nothing else. Use your brains, research our past, drop your modern-centric pretensions and you will see that not all is as it seems!

Sorry... I needed to rant!




------------------
Hydrogen: a light, colorless, odorless gas, that given enough time, turns into people.

BALONEY DETECTOR

b5Anteros@hotmail.com


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:30:03 am








Absonite

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  posted 07-21-2004 09:42 PM                       
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anteros,

it's probably because you come from lawrence mass. If you lived in methuen, or salem, or derry then you might have an excuse.

Just because You don't know the past doesn't mean everyone doesn't. There are people who have been here since the beginning of this little experiment and they do happen to keep really good records, by a process that you would not understand. Every so often, like once every thousand or so years revelation appears in order to correct accumulated erroneous material.

Anyway, I'm sure you have a lot invested in "not knowing" ....so, you ought to leave this group in order not to do your "Uniformitarianism" any more harm. btw, the dinosaurs were not killed by a meteor.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/08/030828071722.htm

http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper60.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper60.html&line=74#mfs


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:33:14 am








dhill757

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   posted 07-21-2004 10:05 PM                       
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Anteros, I count myself proud to be one of the few sane people in here.


Atalante,

The scenario you posed to me is flawed in that it assumes that the fragment from Laurasia had to be of continental size. I never said that, actually I think I said the opposite. Look above:

"Actually, there's several ways that Atlantis could have existed, and they aren't all dependent on it being of a continental size either..."

The model you provided assumes we know exactly how the continents broke apart. Like Anteros implies, we don't. It's a good guess, it's the model we were all taught back
in science class, but even with it, there is room for other possibilities, many other possibilities. I doubt it was as neat as the presentation looks, for one, and there were many million years to work with. Many islands, large and small might have emerged and sunk in that time and we'll never have the whole picture.

I'm thinking that there was a fragment between North America and Europe at one time, it didn't have to be a continent, maybe it was about the size of England, or England and Ireland combined, bigger perhaps, maybe some smaller islands as well. I would probably think that even if it had nothing to do with Atlantis. Madegascar, Ceylon, England, Indonesia - all were probably joined with the continents, too, at one time and they're similiar to what I would describe. Theoretically, they didn't have to be joined to any of the continental plates, could have just been large islands, on unstable land to begin with, earthquake prone. Eventually the land would have been submerged either because it endured too much volcanic stress, or because something from space struck the Atlantic. As I keeo saying, there is a missing piece between Europe and North America...

The flaw with this, like Essan says, is that, if it happened, it probably happened too long ago to have been Atlantis, right..? If it was more recently, there would still be some signs of it still around, correct? Not really, if we take into account Riven's comet theory. It would have been absorbed by the ocean, just like the story says.

Actually, an asteroid hitting the Atlantic pretty much would destroy Atlantis no matter where it was in the Atlantic.

Having said all that, my favorite place for Atlantis to be would still have been the raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:34:25 am








docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 07-21-2004 10:26 PM                       
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Sorry guys, however do you know how many times we have been over Atlantis being in the middle of the Atlantic ocean and the comet theory, having been there myself. It just don`t pan out. There is just no evidence of any comet that we know of that hit in the Atlantic ocean. 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:35:35 am








Helios

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   posted 07-22-2004 12:11 AM                       
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Oh, well, thats settled then. Apparently Atlantis wasn't in the Atlantic.
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Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:37:30 am









Essan

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   posted 07-22-2004 05:15 AM                       
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quote:
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Yadda, Yadda, Yadda!! You are all slaves of Uniformitarianism!! Are Dhill757 and Tom Hebert the only sane people in here?!?

Why do you slavishly adhere to theories and/or ideas created and perpetuated by people with something at stake in the bargain??

The fact is that we don't know what happened in ancient times and everything else is just guess work! Your guess is as good as mine!! The best we have are the "myths" handed down to us by our ancestors and in my opinion they are a better starting point than the guesses and wishes we get from today's so called experts; all of whom have their fingers in the pie!!

Uniformitarianism is a religion, nothing else. Use your brains, research our past, drop your modern-centric pretensions and you will see that not all is as it seems!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, sorry, I forgot. Anything scientists say is a load of rubbish. Only non scientists, who haven't studied the subject, are capable of knowing the truth. My mistake.

Btw I am getting really sick of people who know absolutely nothing about geology or geologists bringing up that stupid uniformitarianism argument.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:39:48 am









Riven

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  posted 07-22-2004 08:34 AM                       
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docyabut;

You should think before you speak.
If the entire world is covered with meteoric craters, what makes you think they all missed the oceans?

Since you like rings so much, why don't you take a close look at the Tore seamount rings left by a meteor, and if it wasn't a meteor, then it must be another possible location for Atlantis near the Gettysburg Seamount.

And while your at it, take a look at the Bathymetric maps with the large circle under Iceland at the tip of the Atlantic ridge fracture.

www.mts.net/~perasa




Anteros;

Since you too have become divided like God in your Corinthians 1:13 profile interests, and if studying Atlantis is too frustrating for you, maybe you should pick up the Bible and learn to rejoin your divided spirit.




Atalante and Essan;

Let's give that some more thought. As you stated that the known continents were 400 million years old, that is not to exclude that this could also be the age of the land left behind some 15 million years ago, unless of course it formed from the magma around this time as a new landmass.

As well, I like to think that Atlantis did not disappear all at once,or 5% as you say Atalante, rather in several stages ending at 6482 bC and maintaining their stronghold from Lake Tritonis which was already settled from 11,000 bC where the Qadan's moved east to Egypt. The Aterian cultures were already here since 40k bC along with the later Capsians,Berbers. The intense disasters and flooding in the med on the north side of the Atlas mts would have made for their survival route up through Zagora, Morocco along the Grand Erg Occidental into the Atalantes region on the south side of the Atlas Mountains.

Which also explains all the activity
being focused here. From here as well they went to Malta around this time constructing the Temples there and branching into the Tarxien (Tarshin) cultures. In my opinion what I think is that this Atlantis battle was before 3000 bC and may relate
to the Narmer palette in the form of the earliest Sea People battle. We also have the Gebel-Arak knife hinting at ancestors around this time upto 4k bC. By 2k bC, everyone wasdefinitely independent and liberated.

Most of the Gadeiros Basque cultures were wiped out in Portugal and Iberia later to be merged with Cimmerian, Etruscan cultures on the N.Med side and descending into the bloodlines of Agammemnon and Menelaus,the twins.

So even though Atlantis sank around 6482 bC, they still maintained control through the remaining Kings upto 3000 bC and no later than 1500 bC.

These are my thoughts and theories based on my studies.

Freewill to all.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:41:03 am










Tom Hebert
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  posted 07-22-2004 08:57 AM                       
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Anteros,

Thank you for confirming my sanity. I need all the reassurance I can get!

Tom

 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:42:16 am








Anteros

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   posted 07-22-2004 07:52 PM                       
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Essan said:

quote:
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Yeah, sorry, I forgot. Anything scientists say is a load of rubbish. Only non scientists, who haven't studied the subject, are capable of knowing the truth. My mistake.
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Well! It's obvious that some of you I quoted were offended by my post. I sincerely did not mean to offend anyone. I did mean to stir up debate and a little controversy but no offense intended! Each of the people I quoted I respect for their various contributions to this forum, and I apologize if I offended.

However, let's take Essan's response as an example.

No Essan, not everthing scientists say is a load of rubish. But do you have to take it as gospel truth? When there is so much controversy surrounding our origins why should I/we swallow unquestioningly anything that comes from Academia, especially considering their track record regarding competing theories to their religion of evolution?

In the past, science was always evolving, always learning, always open to new ideas. Not anymore. Now, anything that threatens the status quo (their security blanket) is anathema.

Sheesh...


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:43:41 am








rockessence

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   posted 07-22-2004 08:04 PM                       
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Anteros,

"In the past, science was always evolving, always learning, always open to new ideas. Not anymore. Now, anything that threatens the status quo (their security blanket) is anathema."

I think science NEVER accepted a new idea without screaming, accusations and hair-pulling! But that's just my opinion...


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:45:14 am










Absonite

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  posted 07-22-2004 09:36 PM                       
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Anteros,

I don't even understand why you threw me into your little group in the first place.

Anyone will tell you that the stuff I have been quoting or posting certainly is * NOT * establishment science. Even the thing you quoted me for...... dinosaurs were not killed by a meteor........ is diametrically opposed to what most so-called scientists believe. Certainly the Urantia stuff is more than controversial, and even my entrance to this group which started with Bob Sarmast and his Cyprus exploration of Atlantis is virtually refuted by everyone, even most scientific and lay members of this group, and my assertion that Atlantis is Eden does not have everyone lining up. I mean, most people here are looking for Atlantis in the Atlantic somewhere and I know Maria is looking for a statue of Georgeos to worship somewhere on the bottom of Cadiz.

So, Anteros, why are you picking on me as being "Uniformitarianism".

O.K. , apology accepted. Now, let's get back to the tower of babel as we all babylon and on and on ......


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Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:46:25 am








rockessence

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   posted 07-23-2004 12:14 AM                       
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Abs..

Did you say up the bottom of Cadiz...?


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:48:48 am








dhill757

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   posted 07-23-2004 01:39 AM                       
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Essan, personally I value your opinion as much as anyone here. Don't worry, I don't hold the fact that you're a scientist against you.

On the other hand, common sense should tell you that some of the things scientists are theorizing are flat out wrong. I doubt very much the model we've always been given about how the continents split apart was as neat as all that.

And I flat out reject the notion that humanity, which had already evolved to a certain extent to
modern humans about two hundred thousand years ago, was simply hunter-gatherers up until about seven thousand years ago. We had it in ourselves the ability to do more, why didn't we?

The fact that there hasn't been much evidence of civilization prior to 3100 b.c. can be attribute just
as easily to the ravages of time and misdating, as anything else.

As for sciences, archaeology only takes into account what it can hold in it's hands, even then they
try to make it conform to a model they already have established in their minds.

The study of the stars and the planets, on the other hand, holds nothing in it's hands. It's all done through probes and telescopes. Is it any wonder some of us get skeptical when they tell us how the universe began? Like the break up of the continents, none of us were there after all.

As for knocking the rest of us because we aren't supposed to have any training in these fields, well, some of the people seem to be quite intelligent on this forum, very few freaks here (well, some).

I pick up as much as I can on all the sciences, in the final analysis, it's my own common sense that helps me sort it all out.

There are no experts in any of the fields to tell us definitively how things happened and when. Science itself is constantly reversing itself.

Just this week, Stephen Hawking, one of the most brilliant minds of our time, reversed himself on his Black Hole theory, after twenty years of saying one thing, he now says another.

Good science should be open to any new possibilities, not close-minded about them. Isn't that what people become scientists for, to learn..?

Today's science is not the science it will be one hundred, even two hundred years from now, and they might well be laughing at some of the theories we now take as fact now. Sort of like we now laugh at all the learned people who once believed that the world was flat.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:49:57 am








Essan

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   posted 07-23-2004 04:05 AM                       
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Sorry all: I got a bit carried away with my last post.

I believe that most scientists (I'm only an amateur btw!) are open to new ideas and in geology, at least, cataclysmical events are known to have shaped this Earth and to have happened in recent times. The principles of 'Uniformitarianism' include asteroid impacts, super-volcanoes, continent-wide floods etc!

In coming up with a new theory you have to a) demonstrate the short-comings of the old theory and b) demonstrate that your new theory better matches all the evidence. It seems to me that many 'fringe' theories are very selective in what evidence they match.

I am quite sure that current theory on plate tectonics/sea-floor spreading is not entirely correct. However the theory does match most of the evidence and shouldn't be dismissed lightly, just because it doesn't fit in with an ancient myth.

If we can evolve a theory to explain Atlantis that fits in - more or less - with current, accepted, scientific theory then surely that must be better - and more lilely to be right - than one that flies in the face of current scientific theory?


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:51:14 am









Absonite

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  posted 07-23-2004 06:21 AM                       
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no Rock,

I think she's definitely monothestic. 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:52:34 am









Anteros

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   posted 07-23-2004 06:17 PM                       
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God!! This is why I absolutely love this forum!! The vast majority of people here are very intelligent adults!

Abs, thank you for accepting my apology and for making me laugh with your last post.

Rock, you're probably right about science always having a hard time accepting new ideas.

Essan, thank you for informing me about the inclusions of uniformitarianism; I honestly didn't know.

Dhill, thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth! (pretty much your entire last post.)

Carry on , gentlemen. (..and ladies!)


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:55:56 am








Huitzilíhuitl
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Rate Member   posted 07-25-2004 03:09 PM                       
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Greetings.

A logical possibility that has not still been considered is that Atlantis has been able to be the own America, and then there would not be any incoherence with the Pangea’s theory.

Since it began to have conscience that America was a new continent, and not the Oriental Indies as Columbus had supposed, it ended up thinking that America could be Atlantis, but the retarded and savage appearance of their autochthonous cultures, practitioners of religions of human sacrifices, as well as of not being after the last five centuries ruins or vestiges of a civilization so developed as the one mentioned by Plato, it has stayed to discarded America of that possibility.

However the ruins of the Atlantis have been consumed by those cultures of human sacrifices, among other things to make their own constructions, a sample of we can see it in the reference that makes Orion von Koch in this forum: "T. C. Overstreet and other historical researchers have pointed out, time after time, that enormous, thick sheets of mica were found by archaeologists on the fifth level of the Sun Pyramid in mid 1900s.

Later, at 400 meters down from the Sun Pyramid, reported by the Viking Foundation, another mica slab was found of considerable size: some 27.5 meters square (92 feet square) near the Avenue of the Dead. To the astonishment of all archaeologists, it was identified as a type of mica that is found in South America, and nowhere else.

This begs the question of why was this particular type of mica removed and transported some 3218.6 kilometers (2000 miles) to be incorporated into the building site at Teotihuacan? How could something this large be transported in a Stone Age period of history?

It is also to be noted that similar finds of South American mica were discovered in certain Olmec sites."



My opinion is that America (= Atlantis) it was flooded about 14 thousand years ago, at the beginning
of the big cataclysms that marked the end of the Pleistocene, and the time that remained flooded it was geology insignificant, but enough so that it was uninhabited, being begun to populate again for
the Asian man through the strait of Bering.

Meanwhile the survivors from the Atlantis that reached to arrive Africa, with the time built a new world civilization again, with their main metropolis in the high Nile, as I induce of Charles H Hapgood’s investigation, presented in their book "Maps of the ancient sea kings."

At the end of the glaciation, the white or European man that had remained caught in the low countries, it could begin to move toward the Mediterranean. The Nile’s atlantean have been amaze by this new race that had remained cloistered by the glaciers during about a hundred thousand years without having contact with the rest of the human races, and the same as the atlantean, it had a very reduced population compared with the Asian and African races, some to have remained confined by the nature, and others for the flood of their continent.

It was as well as the Nile’s atlantean decided to impel a new historical cycle starting from their scientific and religious knowledge, with the purpose of counteracting the disproportion of the racial populations, as well as of stimulating the development of the new race integrating it to their bigger sisters and exercising the power on them to end up learning how to use it correctly.

For that which they had to have created the old religions of human sacrifices, diffusing them in an encircling one geographical of the expansion of the new race, and leaving their prints from Stonehenge until the European coast of the Mediterranean, in The India, the Middle East and the same Egypt.

Such religions were the antecedent of the Christianity whose main character is also sacrificed for the salvation of the world.

Finally they returned to America, their original continent, to impose the religions of human offerings
here also and to wait the arrival of the western culture.

Greetings.


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Posts: 9 | From: Colima, México 


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:57:24 am








dhill757

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   posted 07-26-2004 09:49 PM                       
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No problem, Anteros, I happen to like your work a lot myself!

Essan, we'd sure like to hear more about your new theory, when you're ready, that is.

Looks like this would be the perfect place to post it...


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 11:58:53 am








atalante
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   posted 07-27-2004 08:31 AM                       
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Since about 1995, scientists have been able to talk about the history of continents BEFORE pangea.
For example, the continent called Rodinia existed approximately 1 billion years ago.

John Rogers, a geologist at the University of North Carolina, has spearheaded the new outlook for ancient continents.

It seems that continental material has been forming, somewhat continually, throughout the last 3 billion years.

On the continent of Rodinia, all the surface rocks which formed 3 billion years ago were clumped together. They included what is currently the sub-continent of India.

However after time passed, more continental material formed, and the continent called Pangea came into being. At that time, the clump of 3-billion-year-old rocks was located close to the current region called Madagascar. But they became unstable, and broke apart. And during the breakup, they shoved India into a collision course with Asia.

One of the interesting issues proposed in the new geology is that the old continents never "sink".

For example, the continent of Atlantica formed 2 billion years ago. But it split apart when the Atlantic Ocean began widening. Today, half of Atlantica forms the east coast of South America, and the the other half of Atlantica forms the central-west coast of Africa.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 12:00:07 pm








Smiley4554

Administrator
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  posted 07-29-2004 09:36 AM                       
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I found that interesting, atalante, and just had to look it up.



http://www.scotese.com/Rodinia3.htm

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec98/913866772.Sh.r.html


This next link details, by maps, the progression. I found it very interesting.


http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/platetec/plhist94.htm


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 12:02:44 pm








Chronos

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   posted 08-04-2004 12:36 PM                       
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I'm reading an interesting book right now called "A Continent Adrift." It's fiction, but it imagines Atlantis as an original piece of Africa that broke off and was set adrift in the Atlantic. For a time it's an earthly paradise, with the undersea volcanoes keeping it a warm tropical island, then eventually it's swallowed up by the ocean! It's constantly drifting, though, even beneath the ocean, which is why no one ever finds it.

Eventually, a nuclear submarine, commanded by the devil (I won't even get into that), goes looking for it because it's movements threaten the planet itself.

Interesting!


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Bianca on June 14, 2008, 12:03:54 pm







FallingSky
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Member # 1675

Rate Member   posted 08-06-2004 02:39 AM                       
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Quote:
"Here is a map of Pangea. As you can see, there does not appear to be any space in the mid-Atlantic where a continent like Atlantis could have existed"
Answer:
Der? try that one that looks like North and Sout America.
No mention of that one in the ancients texts. Use your noodle.


here try this ... http://www.geocities.com/webatlantis/

____________________

Quote:
"atalante,
Why are you still spreading that false theory as fact? Dinosaurs were not killed by any meteor. They became extinct because they had a brain the size of a walnut, 40 ton bodies and they ate all their food."

Answer:
Impossible for walnut brains to exist for millions of years, (AND THEN)...eat all their food.
Try all those ancient mighty "Dragon Slayer" myths stemming out of every culture.
dragon: "giant reptile" Hello?


Let me paint a picture for you... http://www.ohooligans.com/weird_dino_stones.html

_____________________

FallingSky



http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000931


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: Mario Dantas on July 26, 2008, 02:38:36 pm
http://lh6.ggpht.com/sofiakovsky/R_qXkvDFtwI/AAAAAAAAANU/kIIX8iUDGY0/AAAA%20oclusion.jpg


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: LoneStar77 on September 17, 2010, 02:36:51 am
Very interesting graphic, Mario, but cutting and pasting an enlarged image of Greenland and pasting it in the middle of the Atlantic (at an angle!), proves what? The island of Greenland did not swim through the Eurasia tectonic plate, and across the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to get to its current location.

If such a geological process existed, it would certainly have left physical marks (damage) on the existing plates (sea floor). No such skid marks show in any data I've ever seen.

On the subject of Pangaea and Atlantis, I think the original question is entirely moot. Why? Atlantis, if it existed where Plato said it did, would not have swum through oceanic plate to get there. A remnant continental fragment would require a ridge (spreading center) to give it distance from the continental margins. The magnetic striping on the ocean floor shows that the region of Atlantis extends from several million years old to several dozen million years old. Likely Atlantis would have been formed in situ from something like subduction or convergent compression. I invite all to take a look at my recent video on the Geology of Atlantis, http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/mia/atlantis.php. This gives one plausible method for the geological creation and destruction of such a landform.

We also have proof of an Atlantis-like event occurring about 9620 BC. For more on that, I invite you to check out, http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/mia/atlantis-articles/atlantis-proof.php. Three items of scientific evidence, each from a different discipline, show that something big happened on that date. Though they don't prove Atlantis, directly, they are the closest thing we have to a "smoking gun" in the death of Atlantis.

Rod Martin, Jr.


Title: Re: Pangea And Where Atlantis Fits In - ORIGINAL
Post by: HereForNow on September 17, 2010, 02:56:28 am
Very interesting graphic, Mario, but cutting and pasting an enlarged image of Greenland and pasting it in the middle of the Atlantic (at an angle!), proves what? The island of Greenland did not swim through the Eurasia tectonic plate, and across the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to get to its current location.

If such a geological process existed, it would certainly have left physical marks (damage) on the existing plates (sea floor). No such skid marks show in any data I've ever seen.

On the subject of Pangaea and Atlantis, I think the original question is entirely moot. Why? Atlantis, if it existed where Plato said it did, would not have swum through oceanic plate to get there. A remnant continental fragment would require a ridge (spreading center) to give it distance from the continental margins. The magnetic striping on the ocean floor shows that the region of Atlantis extends from several million years old to several dozen million years old. Likely Atlantis would have been formed in situ from something like subduction or convergent compression. I invite all to take a look at my recent video on the Geology of Atlantis, http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/mia/atlantis.php. This gives one plausible method for the geological creation and destruction of such a landform.

We also have proof of an Atlantis-like event occurring about 9620 BC. For more on that, I invite you to check out, http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/mia/atlantis-articles/atlantis-proof.php. Three items of scientific evidence, each from a different discipline, show that something big happened on that date. Though they don't prove Atlantis, directly, they are the closest thing we have to a "smoking gun" in the death of Atlantis.

Rod Martin, Jr.


 :) I came to this same conclusion about this idea. However, an island-continent with a mountain and the other geologic features that Plato describes is also not turning up anywhere in the great Atlantic. However, there is global evidence that people from around the world at around the time of the end of the last ice age was able to exchange ideas. There is still alot of unresolved mysteries surrounding this. It's as if they were able to exchange information globally.