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News: Plato's Atlantis: Fact, Fiction or Prophecy?
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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)  (Read 7579 times)
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2007, 09:43:10 pm »








Anteros

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Wow, Dhill... what a massive amount of studying you've done!

Since I'm a believer in the Atlantic theory, this stuff is gonna keep me reading for while!

Good work, man!
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2007, 09:45:29 pm »








dhill757

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Anteros,

Thanks for the compliment! There's a lot more to come. I'm a firm believer in the Atlantis in the Atlantic theory and after some of the things I've discovered, both here and in my own research, I believe even more. There's no way Plato could have been refering to Atlantis as a peninsula, when he really meant a large island, which eliminates the Spain and Morocco theories as far as I'm concerned. More on that later.




Essan,

Actually the remains of woolly mammoths and mastdons have washed up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, there have been accounts of that, they just haven't found any remains of that yet. I'm still searching for some solid evidence of that, but it's even mentioned in the Andrew Collins book, "Gateway to Atlantis," and he's a pretty decent reseacher. That, among other things, is one of the things that inspires me towards the Atlantic again. I think we're missing something here, in other words, don't have all the pieces of the puzzle.

I'll write more when I get the chance.



Check out the flora of the Azores, looks a lot like Atlantis if you ask me!
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2007, 05:05:40 pm »








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Dhill: I agree, Collins' book it very good and well researched. Don't remember it mentioning mammoth/mastodon bones, but I could easily have forgotten/missed it.

I'd love someone to prove Atlantis was in the mid Atlantic (actually, I'd love someone to prove Atlantis was anywhere!).

But I think any good research needs a sceptical element to it: too many theories have been published where basic known facts about geogrpahy, geology, history etc have been ignored/overlooked or else are based on pure speculation without any hard evidence. The sceptic can help avoid those mistakes being made and hopefully lead to a resulting theory that actually fits the evidence.

So any comments I make aren't intended to undermine yours (or anyone elses research), I'm simply your token sceptic
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2007, 05:07:21 pm »








dhill757

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That's okay, Essan, I like your comments~! Good scientific work is supposed to stand up to scrutiny, no matter who is offering it, and I've your particular scutiny more enlightened than most!
The passage I'm talking about from the Collins books comes from page 58 of my copy, under the chapter "Atlanticus."

It reads like this:

"What we cany say is that various species of mammoth and mastodon inhabited the American continent prior to the cessation of the last Ice Age, c 9000-8500 b.c. Conceivably, such enormous beasts could have been construed as elephants, invoking the possibility that they might have existed on Plato's Atlantic Island. In support of this theory Atlantologists cite the fact that mammoth and mastodon bones have been trawled up from the sea bottom by vessels fishing off the Atlantic shelf, close to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Despite such inexplicable curiosities there is no hard evidence whatsoever to lend credibility to the idea of elephants in Atlantis."

Collins' footnote credits Donato, A Re-examination of the Atlantis Theory, p 46, after K.O. Emery in Oceanus magazine. Hansen, p. 399

Now, I like Andrew Collins research a lot, but some of his conclusions often are kind of weird. To disqualify the idea of hard evidence of elephants in Atlantis, I think we both agree you have to know where Atlantis was. Collins, of course, places it in Cuba, and it's to his credit that he even mentions anything supporting an Azores Atlantis at all. Most researchers, I've noticed, either try to rip apart evidence that it may have been in other places or don't even mention it at all in order to support their pet theories.

Between, the elephant bones trawled up by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (and I'm still looking for the original sources and, of course, for pictures), the fact that the O'Briens have mapped out a sunken area there roughly the size of Spain, and that bigger parts of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were almost certainly above sea level during the Ice Age (which I'll get into later), the Azores becomes just as strong a candidate for Atlantis as it ever was, although, in my opinion it's not the only one!
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2007, 05:08:57 pm »








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Universalis cosmographia secundum Ptholomaei traditionem et Americi Vespucii alioru[m]que lustrationes.


http://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/waldexh.html 
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2007, 05:10:14 pm »








dhill757

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This next bit of information should eliminate, once and for all, that Atlantis could have been Spain or anything other than a large island in the Atlantic.
Thie first quote comes from Atalante in the thead entitled "Atlantis=Island-Peninsula"


quote:
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Strabo explained the difference between continents, islands, and peninsulas.
quote from: http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/1D*.html

"Next, after saying that there has been much discussion about the continents, and that some divide them by the rivers (the Nile and the Tanaïs), declaring them to be islands, while others divide them by the isthmuses (the isthmus between the Caspian and the Pontic Seas, and the isthmus between the Red Sea and the Ecregma), and that the latter call the continents peninsulas, Eratosthenes then says that he does not see how this investigation can end in any practical result, but that it belongs only to persons who choose to live on a diet of disputation"

At the bottom of the following link there is a map of the continents, as the Greeks understood them at that time. http://www.livius.org/ea-eh/edges/edges.html


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To which Chronos also added earlier in this thread:


quote:
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Incidentally, even if the translation reads "before" rather than "beyond" the Pillars of Hercules, it doesn't neccessarily disqualify the Azores as Atlantis. In fact, for Atlantis to actually be Spain, one might argue that the translation would have to read "beside" the Pillars of Hercules, rather than "before." That would be their correct geographic location. 
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2007, 05:11:12 pm »








dhill757

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To which I'll also add these quotes from Critias & Timaeus:

quote:
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"The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."
"Such was the vast power which the god settled in the lost island of Atlantis;

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."


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As Andrew Collins also says, "you really have to play around with the geography of Timaeus for Atlantis to be in Spain."
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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2007, 05:13:39 pm »








dhill757

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Thanks for the link, Riven, here is one for you. This is more information on the Russian discoveries of Atlantis, though still no pictures:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter3_2.htm


quote:
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Soviet Case for Atlantis
On the 27th of March 1979, the Soviet vessel, of oceanographic research, "Vityaz" was found at the delta of the Portugeuese river Tago. During the same night journalists from all over the country and abroad, would listen to Dr. Ascenov's scientific announcements regarding the results of their research in the Atlantic.
After the necessary introduction to the journalists, the Soviet oceanologist announced some peculiar results regarding their research within the Atlantic ocean.

" In an Area that is located 900 kilometers off the Portuguese shores, an underwater plateau was identified, with strange formations. The plateau is on top of an underwater mountain. After extensive research and based to the measurements of our scientific equipment, we have identified possible ruins of a submerged city. We clearly identified destroyed walls and gigantic stairs. And although all these items are covered with loads of marine plants, we managed to take clear photos of the area. The photos are showing symmetrical stone constructions, staircases and other remains. All this material will be sent to Moscow for further analysis".
     
this short announcement, the soviet scientists revealed to the journalists, that they could have probably found Atlantis.
The Soviet vessel continued its mission searching the oceanic floor west of Madeira.

Close to this area there is an underwater mountain called "Amber". Five years later, in 1984 when the Soviet scientists concluded their research, they announced that "Amber" mountain, once was an island that was eventually submerged without giving any more information.

In September of the following year (1985) "Pravda" reported that the Soviets had pulled out of the ocean, from a depth of 4,500 meters a strange piece of marble. This discovery was made by another Soviet vessel: "Academic Boris Petrov". This new finding, puzzled the scientists.
The marble artifact's sides were smoothened. Its color was yellowish. Its schema betrayed artificial origin. The Soviet scientists mentioned that it was definitely man-made. By chemical analysis they produced palaeochronology results, showing that this piece of marble was lying at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years (the experimental procedure unfortunately was not published).

The leading scientist of the Soviet Academy of Science, Leo Chitrov declared that he would personally head the research for the chemical analysis of the find. Since then, the Soviet Academy never announced anything regarding the results.
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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2007, 05:15:49 pm »








dhill757

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From 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (Jules Verne)




http://jv.gilead.org.il/fpwalter/2/09.html


"I looked back down the side we had just cleared. There the mountain rose only 700 to 800 feet above the plains; but on its far slope it crowned the receding bottom of this part of the Atlantic by a height twice that. My eyes scanned the distance and took in a vast area lit by intense flashes of light. In essence, this mountain was a volcano. Fifty feet below its peak, amid a shower of stones and slag, a wide crater vomited torrents of lava that were dispersed in fiery cascades into the heart of the liquid mass. So situated, this volcano was an immense torch that lit up the lower plains all the way to the horizon.

As I said, this underwater crater spewed lava, but not flames. Flames need oxygen from the air and are unable to spread underwater; but a lava flow, which contains in itself the principle of its incandescence, can rise to a white heat, overpower the liquid element, and turn it into steam on contact. Swift currents swept away all this diffuse gas, and torrents of lava slid to the foot of the mountain, like the disgorgings of a Mt. Vesuvius over the city limits of a second Torre del Greco.

In fact, there beneath my eyes was a town in ruins, demolished, overwhelmed, laid low, its roofs caved in, its temples pulled down, its arches dislocated, its columns stretching over the earth; in these ruins you could still detect the solid proportions of a sort of Tuscan architecture; farther off, the remains of a gigantic aqueduct; here, the caked heights of an acropolis along with the fluid forms of a Parthenon; there, the remnants of a wharf, as if some bygone port had long ago harbored merchant vessels and triple-tiered war galleys on the shores of some lost ocean; still farther off, long rows of collapsing walls, deserted thoroughfares, a whole Pompeii buried under the waters, which Captain Nemo had resurrected before my eyes!

Where was I? Where was I? I had to find out at all cost, I wanted to speak, I wanted to rip off the copper sphere imprisoning my head.

But Captain Nemo came over and stopped me with a gesture. Then, picking up a piece of chalky stone, he advanced to a black basaltic rock and scrawled this one word:

ATLANTIS

What lightning flashed through my mind! Atlantis, that ancient land of Meropis mentioned by the historian Theopompus; Plato’s Atlantis; the continent whose very existence has been denied by such philosophers and scientists as Origen, Porphyry, Iamblichus, d’Anville, Malte-Brun, and Humboldt, who entered its disappearance in the ledger of myths and folk tales; the country whose reality has nevertheless been accepted by such other thinkers as Posidonius, Pliny, Ammianus Marcellinus, Tertullian, Engel, Scherer, Tournefort, Buffon, and d’Avezac; I had this land right under my eyes, furnishing its own unimpeachable evidence of the catastrophe that had overtaken it! So this was the submerged region that had existed outside Europe,Asia, and Libya, beyond the Pillars of Hercules, home of those powerful Atlantean people against whom ancient Greece had waged its earliest wars!

The writer whose narratives record the lofty deeds of those heroic times is Plato himself. His dialogues Timaeus and Critias were drafted with the poet and legislator Solon as their inspiration, as it were.

One day Solon was conversing with some elderly wise men in the Egyptian capital of Sais, a town already 8,000 years of age, as documented by the annals engraved on the sacred walls of its temples. One of these elders related the history of another town 1,000 years older still. This original city of Athens, ninety centuries old, had been invaded and partly destroyed by the Atlanteans. These Atlanteans, he said, resided on an immense continent greater than Africa and Asia combined, taking in an area that lay between latitude 12° and 40° north. Their dominion extended even to Egypt. They tried to enforce their rule as far as Greece, but they had to retreat before the indomitable resistance of the Hellenic people. Centuries passed. A cataclysm occurred—floods, earthquakes. A single night and day were enough to obliterate this Atlantis, whose highest peaks (Madeira, the Azores, the Canaries, the Cape Verde Islands) still emerge above the waves.

These were the historical memories that Captain Nemo’s scrawl sent rushing through my mind. Thus, led by the strangest of fates, I was treading underfoot one of the mountains of that continent! My hands were touching ruins many thousands of years old, contemporary with prehistoric times! I was walking in the very place where contemporaries of early man had walked! My heavy soles were crushing the skeletons of animals from the age of fable, animals that used to take cover in the shade of these trees now turned to stone!

Oh, why was I so short of time! I would have gone down the steep slopes of this mountain, crossed this entire immense continent, which surely connects Africa with America, and visited its great prehistoric cities. Under my eyes there perhaps lay the warlike town of Makhimos or the pious village of Eusebes, whose gigantic inhabitants lived for whole centuries and had the strength to raise blocks of stone that still withstood the action of the waters. One day perhaps, some volcanic phenomenon will bring these sunken ruins back to the surface of the waves! Numerous underwater volcanoes have been sighted in this part of the ocean, and many ships have felt terrific tremors when passing over these turbulent depths. A few have heard hollow noises that announced some struggle of the elements far below, others have hauled in volcanic ash hurled above the waves. As far as the equator this whole seafloor is still under construction by plutonic forces. And in some remote epoch, built up by volcanic disgorgings and successive layers of lava, who knows whether the peaks of these fire-belching mountains may reappear above the surface of the Atlantic!

As I mused in this way, trying to establish in my memory every detail of this impressive landscape, Captain Nemo was leaning his elbows on a moss-covered monument, motionless as if petrified in some mute trance. Was he dreaming of those lost generations, asking them for the secret of human destiny? Was it here that this strange man came to revive himself, basking in historical memories, reliving that bygone life, he who had no desire for our modern one? I would have given anything to know his thoughts, to share them, understand them!

We stayed in this place an entire hour, contemplating its vast plains in the lava’s glow, which sometimes took on a startling intensity. Inner boilings sent quick shivers running through the mountain’s crust. Noises from deep underneath, clearly transmitted by the liquid medium, reverberated with majestic amplitude.

Just then the moon appeared for an instant through the watery mass, casting a few pale rays over this submerged continent. It was only a fleeting glimmer, but its effect was indescribable. The captain stood up and took one last look at these immense plains; then his hand signaled me to follow him.

We went swiftly down the mountain. Once past the petrified forest, I could see the Nautilus’s beacon twinkling like a star. The captain walked straight toward it, and we were back on board just as the first glimmers of dawn were whitening the surface of the ocean."
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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2007, 05:17:20 pm »








dhill757

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                                                      Cape Verde





History

The history of Cape Verde is dominated by three overriding facts: there were no people of any sort on the islands when the Portuguese first arrived; the environment has become increasingly fragile over the centuries, largely due to the impact of people and overgrazing; and it's farther from the African mainland and closer to the Americas than any other African country. It's hardly surprising, therefore, that Cape Verde developed along lines somewhat different from the rest of Africa.

When Portuguese mariners first landed in Cape Verde in 1456, the islands were barren of people but not of vegetation. Seeing the islands today, you find it hard to imagine that they were once sufficiently verde (green) to entice the Portuguese to return six years later to the island of São Tiago to found Ribeira Grande (now Cidade Velha). The Portuguese soon brought slaves from the West African coast to do the hard labour. The islands also became a convenient base for ships transporting slaves to Europe and the Americas.

Environment

The Cape Verde islands are in the Atlantic Ocean, 620km (385mi) west of West Africa's coast at Mauritania. There are 10 major islands (9 of them inhabited) and 5 islets, all of volcanic origin and grouped into the Barlavento (Windward) group (Santo Antão, São Vicente, Santa Luzia, Ilheu Branco, Ilheu Raso, São Nicolau, Sal and Boa Vista) to the north and the Sotavento (Leeward) group (Maio, São Tiago, Fogo and Brava) to the south.

The interior of the main island, São Tiago, is mountainous, and Fogo has the islands' highest peak, Mt Fogo (2840m/9320ft). Fogo was rocked by a volcanic eruption in 1995; there have been seven such eruptions since 1760. Many of the islands are arid and hilly, and cultivation of the hillsides has caused widespread soil erosion. Santo Antão has the highest rainfall and tends to be much greener than the other islands.

Common plants in the islands include rhododendrons, the fire tree, dragon tree, marmulano, corn plant and the Florida Beauty dracaena.

Among the islands' most colourful fauna are its coral and fish, especially in the waters around Sal, where you'll see parrot fish, barracuda and moray eels. You might also spot blue and humpback whales, the narrow-snouted dolphin, harbour porpoise and loggerhead, green and hawksbill turtles. The Raza Island lark, Cape Verde petrel, brown booby, frigatebird, tropicbird and Cape Verde warbler are among the birds winging around the archipelago. Creepy crawlies include the Cape Verde skink and the giant Cape Verde gecko.

Cape Verde has the coolest temperatures of any country in West Africa. Daily highs range from 20°C (68°F) to around 29°C (84°F) from August to October, when there can also be rainstorms. Due to ocean currents, the sea is also considerably chillier than along the West African coast.

Area: 4,030 sq km
Population: 401,343



http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/africa/cape_verde/environment.htm
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2007, 05:18:49 pm »








dhill757

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"For example, the midway point between the Great Pyramid and Machupicchu is in the North Atlantic Ocean, approximately one degree south of the Cape Verde Islands. This is also the midway point between Easter Island and the Indus Valley. Although the Cape Verde Islands were found to be uninhabited when they were rediscovered in 1460 A.D., maps and geographical descriptions for the past 2000 years have shown this location to be the home of ancient island civilizations, including maps showing this location to be the site of Atlantis. In Plato's account of Atlantis, there was a mountainous region north of the city. Are the higher elevations of those mountains now the Cape Verde Islands?
"The distance from the Great Pyramid to Easter Island is approximately 40% of the circumference of the Earth. The X in the diagram is halfway between the two, 20% each way. Machupicchu is halfway between the X in the diagram and Easter Island, 10% each way. The Distance from the Great Pyramid to Angkor Wat is approximately 20% of the circumference, and the Indus Valley is halfway between the two, 10% each way. The Distance from Easter Island to Angkor Wat is approximately 40% of the circumference, and Anatom Island is halfway between them, 20% each way. These sites are located in multiples of 10% of the circumference of the Earth, and particularly at 20% intervals. Although there are no islands near the location of the X in the diagram, it is interesting to note that the famous Piri Reis map shows a large island in this location, and the geology of recent core samples, taken from the ocean floor in this area, is of continental rather than oceanic type rock:


quote:
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Geological structure of the Strakhov fracture zone (equatorial segment of the Mid-Atlantic ridge)
G. B. Udintsev, A. F. Beresnev, V. M. Golod, A. V. Kol'tsova, N. A. Kurentsova, and M. V. Zakharov

Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

G. V. Agapova

Institute of Geology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

L. P. Volokitina

P. P. Shirshov Institute of Oceanology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

V. G. Udintsev

Shmidt Institute of Earth Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow

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Abstract

Geological-geophysical data obtained during cruises 7, 11, and 12 of R/V Akademic Nikolay Strakhov (1989-1991) within the international project EQUARIDGE in the region of Strakhov fracture zone (4oN) are presented. The trough of the fracture is interpreted as an open extension joint, a graben produced by stretching along the axis of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Bedrock studies showed that the typical mid-oceanic tholeiitic basalts occur within the narrow (60 nm wide) axial rift zone, whereas igneous rocks not typical to the ocean were found on the eastern and western flank plateaus. This allows us to suppose that a reworked relict continental-type basement of pre-Upper Jurassic age possibly exists beneath the flank plateaus, within the segment under discussion. The above data correspond to the hypothesis by E. Bonatti about a nonspreading nature of the basement of Mid-Atlantic Ridge within the Equatorial segment and the Strakhov fracture zone.

Figures 3, Tables 3, References 22, Pages 544-558
Received December 16, 1993


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http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/AlisonJ1-p10.htm
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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2007, 05:20:25 pm »







dhill757

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quote:
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Madeira



The flora is so exotic it seems contrived. Anthurium; orchids; bird-of-paradise; variegated lilies; protea and other flowers usually seen only in florists (and priced by the stem) bloom voluntarily.

Some 68 plants including three varieties of orchids grow in Madeira but nowhere else, at least not in their natural environment. Another 42 also occur in the Azores, Canaries and Cape Verde (the total region is called Macaronesia), and still others brought here by accident or intent on trading vessels from Asia and Africa quickly adapted to the soil and climate.

Bananas, mangos, avocados, papaya, oranges, lemons, guavas, custard apples and passion fruit grow in terraced orchards and are for sale in Funchal's vast covered market or by the side of the road. Walnuts and chestnuts are so abundant they have their own festivals upcountry in summer.

Madeira was unpopulated when it was discovered in 1419 by Portuguese explorer Joao Goncalves Zarco. He had anchored at Porto Santo in a storm, and his sailors seeing Madeira under a cloud on the horizon concluded this was the end of the earth. Zarco returned with a less nervous crew the following year and reached a mountainous densely forested island he named Ilha da Madeira, Island of Wood. He was so taken with the place he stayed on as governor and colonizer. Except for some British occupation during the Napoleonic wars and Spanish sword-rattling, Portugal prevailed.

Like so many volcanic islands, Madeira is speculated to be the top of the mythical Atlantis. Only 36 miles long and 14 miles wide, its mountains rise from 16,500 feet below sea level to 6100 feet above, and 90% of the island is 600 feet or more. The volcanoes are long dormant, but the mild climate keeps the rocky escarpment tooth-sharp. There are waterfalls in the north; the world's second highest sea cliff in the south; and a green facade of rare trees everywhere. This type of primitive forest (the "laurisilva") covered all Europe in the tertiary era only to be decimated by advancing glaciers that never reached this far south. Madeira is the same latitude as Casablanca, a scant 400 miles east.

There are no beaches except on Porto Santo which has five miles of white sand.


http://www.goodmoney.com/madeira.htm
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2007, 05:24:00 pm »








Absonite

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Dhill,
I would be interested in your ideas about the following:
have you as yet looked at the animation at bob sarmast's site of the depiction of the flooding after the break in the Gibraltar straits? It is also interesting that there is now a thought that Plato's translation now might be "before" instead of "beyond".
Additionally, apparently after the break at Gibraltar, the break at the Sicilian land-bridge break came a bit later after volcanic activity and earthquakes. This would have some implications into what the area looked like for some time before the actual flooding of the far eastern mediteranean..

Bob's animation link appears at:
http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/

under his Project Updates link and at the May 7th update link.

keeping in mind at least these these two points from the Urantia info...

1. "a long narrow peninsulaÖalmost an islandÖprojecting westward from the eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea."


2a. "About the time of these climatic changes in Africa, England separated from the continent, and Denmark arose from the sea, while the isthmus of Gibraltar, protecting the western basin of the Mediterranean, gave way as the result of an earthquake, quickly raising this inland lake to the level of the Atlantic Ocean.
Presently the Sicilian land bridge submerged, creating one sea of the Mediterranean and connecting it with the Atlantic Ocean. This cataclysm of nature flooded scores of human settlements and occasioned the greatest loss of life by flood in all the world's history.

2b. "four thousand years after Adam left the Garden when, in connection with the violent activity of the surrounding volcanoes and the submergence of the Sicilian land bridge to Africa, the eastern floor of the Mediterranean Sea sank, carrying down beneath the waters the whole of the Edenic peninsula. Concomitant with this vast submergence the coast line of the eastern Mediterranean was greatly elevated. And this
was the end of the most beautiful natural creation...."
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Bianca
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2007, 05:26:19 pm »








dhill757

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Absonite,


I like Bob's book a lot, and wish he were still at this site so we could still discuss things with him. He makes a lot of good points and it's clear he's done a lot of research for it. Unfortunately, when he says that the Atlantic Ocean references were added later to the dialogues, there really isn't any evidence of that. People asked him where his "pillars" were in the thread he started and it didn't seem he had an answer for that either. Also when any researcher says that there were different "Pillars of Hercules," that's wrong, too. Almost all the ancient writers place the Pillars of Hercules where the modern Straits of Gibraltar now are.

Bob also says that the "sinking" had to happen in a time of the ancients' memory and in an area close by the Greeks for them to know about it. That's a good point, but Catastophe also raised some good questions about just when the area of Cyprus he's exploring may have sunk, talking many more years beyond when the Ice Age ended, which is when Atlantis is usually dated.

Again, maybe we're all wrong and not to slight anything he's done, but at this point most things point to the west. Heck, why would it even be called"Atlantis if it weren't out in the Atlantic Ocean..?"

So, in short, I'm sure he'll find something, but I don't think it will be Atlantis. I'm actually not convinced that Atlantis and Eden were the same thing either. The ruins lay someplace out west in the ocean.
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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2007, 05:28:51 pm »








dhill757

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   posted 08-12-2004 07:36 PM                       
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Atlantis - above the waves
traditions, theories, evidence and facts

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Evidence from the floor of the ocean



In a 1954 issue of Geological Society of America, Bulletin, Bruce Heezen and others reported on a seamount - an underwater mountain - that has been named Atlantis by geologists and is in the Atlantic Ocean. It has been found to have been an island about 12,000 years ago - exactly the time specified by Plato! This abstract is given:

The Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor seamounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to 37°N. 32°W. southeast to Great Sea mount at 30°N. 28°W. The Atlantis Sea mount, briefly explored 1947 and 1948, was found by echo sounding and submarine photography to have a fairly flat bedrock summit area at about 180 fathoms covered in some cases by current-rippled sand. Its slopes are covered with sand or ooze symmetrically rippled at 400 fathoms and marked by slump features in 570 fathoms. A small piece of volcanic agglomerate was dredged from 400 fathoms on the north slope. About a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area. One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years ±900 (J.L. Kulp). The state of lithification of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under subaerial [i.e. above water, on land surface] conditions and that the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12,000 years. (Heezen, Bruce C., et al, "Flat-Topped Atlantis, Cruiser, And Great Meteor Sea Mounts" in Geological Society of America, Bulletin, 65:1261, 1954 (Protogonos issue 9))

In later studies, evidence was found for the remnants of a "sunken block of continent" in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An articlein New Scientist 1975 summarizes the result. (Anonymous, New Scientist,66:540, 1975)

Although they make no such fanciful claim from their results as to have discovered the mythical mid-Atlantic landmass, an international group of oceanographers has now convincingly confirmed preliminary findings that a sunken block of continent lies in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes from analysing dredge samples taken along the line of the Vema offset fault, a long east-west fracture zone lying between Africa and South America close to latitude 11øN.

The article describes the first report of "shallow-water limestone fragments" from the Vema Fracture in the Atlantic:

Four years ago two University of Miami workers, J. Honnorez and E. Bonatti, first reported the recovery of shallow-water limestone fragments from the Vema fracture zone. This limestone contained minerals indicative of a nearby granitic source unlikely to occur on the ocean floor. Neither water currents, nor more esoteric transport systems, could explain the presence of these rocks so far from the modern boundaries of the continents. The two researchers believed that, instead, the granitic grains must have been deposited close to their source.





Then the recent researchers are noted:



Now, with C. Emiliani of Miami, Paul Bronniman of the University of Geneva, M.A. Furrer of Esso Production Research, Begles, and A.A. Meyerhof, a consulting geologist from Tulsa, USA, they have carried out a more searching analysis of the dredge samples (Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 26, p.Cool

Finally he notes the evidence for activity in less than 30 meters ofwater, and even some evidence for activity in soil.

The Limestones include traces of shallow-water fossils - foraminifera, green algae, bits of gastropods, and crab coprolites - implying formation in water, in one instance, less than 30 m deep. Furthermore, the limestones have been recrystallized from a high to low-magnesium form of calcite. Oxygen and carbon-isotope ratios prove conclusively that this process must have taken place subaerially [on land surface] "through the action of meteoric water enriched in light carbon while passing through a soil zone ..." A pitted limestone sample bears evidence of tidal action. Some 50 km east of the dredge site along the Vema fracture the team also recovered a thick-shelled, shallow-water, bivalve fossil from a depth of over 2000 m.

The coprolites in the sample indicate a Mesozoic age for the limestone which may well be the sedimentary capping on a residual continental block left behind as the [??] spread out into an ocean. The granitic minerals could thus have come from the bordering continents while the ocean was still in its infancy. Vertical movements made by the block appear to have raised it above sea level at some period during its history.

(from Unknown Earth: A Handbook of Geological Enigmas by William R. Corliss.)



http://www.atlantissource.com/home/forgotten_article.htm
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