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Morocco and Eastern Atlantis

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Author Topic: Morocco and Eastern Atlantis  (Read 47544 times)
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« Reply #720 on: February 06, 2008, 09:24:46 pm »

We also have an interesting detail concerning when the mtDNA entered North America.

The time estimates on haplogroup X entering America were at first shaky, because too few
samples had been taken.

But later, it seemed that haplogoup X entered by 28,000 B.C. and again in 10,000 B.C. (ibid,
p 50)

These appear to be waves of immigration from Atlantis.

The second wave corresponds to the date of the sinking of Atlantis as given by both Cacey
and Theosophy.

That should count as another supportive discovery.

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« Reply #721 on: February 06, 2008, 09:38:31 pm »


Little et al add some more information of interest:

In July 2001, a research letter was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, relating
that a few people with the "X" type had been identified in a tribe located in extreme southern

These people, called the Altasians, or Altaics as Russian geneticists refer to them, have always
lived in the Gobi Desert area. ...[ the presence of X ] is of ancient origin.
(Ancient South America p 50)

Little et al are particularly interested in this because they are finding X in all those places that
Cacey had identified as destinations for people leaving Atlantis.

Theosophy notes that the Atlanteans did go to the Gobi desert though it does not specify the
town of Altaics. It offers that information in a number of places with, perhaps, the most direct describing how advanced individuals found refuge in the area of the Gobi:

"A continent [the larger continent of Atlantis] inhabited by two distinct races; distinct physically
and especially morally; both deeply versed in primeval wisdom and the secrets of nature; mutually antagonistic in their struggle, during the course and progress of their double evolution.

Whence even the Chinese teachings upon the subject, if it is but a fiction? Have they not record-
ed the existence once upon a time of a holy island beyond the sun (Tcheou), and beyond which
were situated the lands of the immortal men?
(See de Rougemont, ibid.)

Do they not still believe that the remnants of those immortal men-who survived when the holy
island had become black with sin and perished-have found refuge in the great desert of Gobi,
where they still reside invisible to all, and defended from approach by hosts of Spirits?
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« Reply #722 on: February 06, 2008, 09:44:26 pm »

One more quote on ancient civilizations around the Gobi I would select out as particularly
interesting. It shows how much the occult tradition knows about the subject.

Though unusually long, this quote is inherently fascinating. I also like it because, at its end, it mentions "tall" - thereby lending still more support to the Theosophical scenario of evolution.


Yet the traces of an immense civilization, even in Central Asia, are still to be found.

This civilization is undeniably prehistoric. And how can there be civilization without a literature,
in some form, without annals or chronicles? Common sense alone ought to supplement the
broken links in the history of departed nations.

The gigantic, unbroken wall of the mountains that hem in the whole table-land of Tibet, from
the upper course of the river Khuan-Khé down to the Kara-Korum hills, witnessed a civilization
during millenniums of years, and would have strange secrets to tell mankind.

The Eastern and Central portions of those regions - the Nan-Schayn and the Altyne-taga
[today known as Altyn-tagh] - were once upon a time covered with cities that could well vie
with Babylon.

A whole geological period has swept over the land, since those cities breathed their last, as
the mounds of shifting sand, and the sterile and now dead soil of the immense central plains of
the basin of Tarim testify. The borderlands alone are superficially known to the traveller.

Within those table-lands of sand there is water, and fresh oases are found blooming there,
wherein no European foot has ever yet ventured, or trodden the now treacherous soil. Among
these verdant oases there are some which are entirely inaccessible even to the native profane traveller.

Hurricanes may "tear up the sands and sweep whole plains away," they are powerless to des-
troy that which is beyond their reach. Built deep in the bowels of the earth, the subterranean
stores are secure; and as their entrances are concealed in such oases, there is little fear that
anyone should discover them, even should several armies invade the sandy wastes where- ...


GOBI DESERT MYSTERIES - EDGAR CAYCE,4972.msg64032.html#new
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« Reply #723 on: February 06, 2008, 09:49:10 pm »

But there is no need to send the reader across the desert, when the same proofs of ancient
civilization are found even in comparatively populated regions of the same country. The oasis
of Tchertchen, for instance, situated about 4,000 feet above the level of the river Tchertchen
D'arya, is surrounded with the ruins of archaic towns and cities in every direction.

There, some 3,000 human beings represent the relics of about a hundred extinct nations and
races - the very names of which are now unknown to our ethnologists.

An anthropologist would feel more than embarrassed to class, divide and subdivide them; the
more so, as the respective descendants of all these antediluvian races and tribes known as
little of their own forefathers themselves, as if they had fallen from the moon. When question-
ed about their origin, they reply that they know not whence their fathers had come, but had
heard that their first (or earliest) men were ruled by the great genii of these deserts.

This may be put down to ignorance and superstition, yet in view of the teachings of the
Secret Doctrine, the answer may be based upon primeval tradition.

Alone, the tribe of Khoorassan claims to have come from what is now known as Afghanistan,
long before the days of Alexander, and brings legendary lore to that effect as corroboration.
The Russian traveller, Colonel (now General) Prjevalsky, found quite close to the oasis of
Tchertchen, the ruins of two enormous cities, the oldest of which was, according to local
tradition, ruined 3,000 years ago by a hero and giant; and the other by the Mongolians in the
tenth century of our era.

"The emplacement of the two cities is now covered, owing to shifting sands and the desert
wind, with strange and heterogeneous relics; with broken china and kitchen utensils and
human bones. The natives often find copper and gold coins, melted silver, ingots, diamonds,
and turquoises, and what is the most remarkable-broken glass. . . . ."

"Coffins of some undecaying wood, or material, also, within which beautifully preserved em-
balmed bodies are found. . . . The male mummies are all extremely tall, powerfully built men
with long waving hair. (SDxxxii-xxxiii)
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« Reply #724 on: February 06, 2008, 09:53:30 pm »


After exploring that Altaic detail, we can return to the issue of the Clovis curtain.

In 1997 it looked as though the Clovis curtain had been dealt a fatal blow.

With haplogroup X now discovered in North America and not in Asia, the Bering Strait explan-
ation was insufficient. However, after X was discovered amongst the Altaics, the Clovis folks
at least had an arguing point.

However, geneticists, as opposed to paleoanthropologists, agree that the Altaic haplogroup X
is not from Asia. So the arguing point of the Clovis folks is not very sound. Thus the mtDNA is supportive of Blavatsky's position against the Bering-Strait-only position but to be fair, there
is still controversy.

To convince yourself, based on the evidence, that she was right, just read about the South
American archeology in "Ancient South America."

Of course, once one concludes positively on the existence of Atlantis, then obviously the
Clovis curtain is an erroneous position.

In contrast to Clovis, the following paragraph shows Blavatsky's presentation of the basic idea
that a land mass in the middle of the Atlantic had refugees moving both East and West from
one central source.

The time sequence of this article of hers is interesting. She started her public Theosophical
work in 1875. In 1877 she published Isis Unveiled and gave a couple pages of reference to

This article of hers published in 1880 states a very fundamental idea in all of Atlantology.

Then in 1888 her Secret Doctrine contained much reference to Atlantis. For those who don't
know, Theosophy asserts there was once an Atlantis of continental size, it broke apart and
sank, and finally the remaining island sank around 10,000 BC.
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« Reply #725 on: February 06, 2008, 09:56:10 pm »

Who knows, then, but that Jules Verne's fanciful idea regarding the lost continent Atlanta
may be near the truth? Who can say, that where now is the Atlantic Ocean, formerly did
not exist a continent, with its dense population, advanced in the arts and sciences, who,
as they found their land sinking beneath the waters, retired, part east and part west, popu-
lating thus the two new hemispheres?

This would explain the similarity of their archæological structures and races and their diffe-
rences, modified by and adapted to the character of their respective climates and countries.

Thus could the llama and the camel differ, although of the same species; thus the algoraba
and espino trees; thus the Iroquois Indians of North America and the most ancient Arabs
call the constellation of the "Great Bear" by the same name; thus various nations, cut off
from all intercourse or knowledge of each other, divide the zodiac in twelve constellations,
apply to them the same names, and the Northern Hindoos apply the name Andes to their
Himalayan mountains, as did the South Americans to their principal chain.

(Land of Mystery, article by Blavatsky 1880)
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« Reply #726 on: February 06, 2008, 10:01:53 pm »


Being emboldened by the successful finds of Little et al, I decided to "google" the phrase
"mtDNA Guanches."


Funny - that's EXACTLY what I did, too -



I wondered if another loop of proof could be tied. I found that the field continues to produce
results that diverge from classical paleoanthropological views. It appears that it would be ne-
cessary to research down to the level of actual molecular sequences in the mtDNA ladder to
determine what has actually been found so far.

Traditional anthropology continues to influence how the data is interpreted. Below is perhaps
the most useful quote on the subject.

Notice we are not told anything about X that may have been in the Canaries.

We do not know how close U is to X. That information might be very interesting for

(When the quote references "U6b1" that means haplogroup U with subgroups "6b1.")

The quote does support Theosophy in that the research finds the Guanches of the Canary
Islands are related to the Berbers, as was said in the previous newsletter and as was asserted
by Blavatsky. However, effectively, the Berbers do not have Guanch blood and the Guanches
do not have Berber blood. Maybe that is because they separated long ago.
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« Reply #727 on: February 06, 2008, 10:07:26 pm »

You may find the last sentence interesting.

Orthodox science thinks the Canary Islands were inhabited most likely by the Berbers.
After all - where else is there? They won't allow Atlantis as the source of the Guanches.
So, even though they find the results described - still the results will be construed accord-
ing to the orthodox view.

The sequences retrieved show that the Guanches possessed U6b1 lineages that are in the
present day Canarian population, but not in Africans.

In turn, U6b, the phylogenetically closest ancestor found in Africa, is not present in the
Canary Islands.

Comparisons with other populations relate the Guanches with the actual inhabitants of the
Archipelago and with Moroccan Berbers. This shows that, despite the continuous changes
suffered by the population (Spanish colonisation, slave trade), aboriginal mtDNA lineages
constitute a considerable proportion of the Canarian gene pool.

Although the Berbers are the most probable ancestors of the Guanches, it is deduced that
important human movements have reshaped Northwest Africa after the migratory wave to
the Canary Islands.

This little foray into research of mtDNA and the Guanches revealed that the field of mtDNA
research is exciting, growing, not at all "mature", and filled with controversy.

Clearly we should keep our eyes on the field and watch what it produces.

So, while traditional science will not accept Atlantis - we have their bones, the Cro Magnon,
and now it appears that we have their mitochondrial DNA in haplogroup X.

Reed Carson
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« Reply #728 on: February 07, 2008, 05:41:05 pm »

More on Atlantis as understood from science and occultism, combined at this site -

Sources on DNA discoveries as mentioned above:


The Mound Builders: Edgar Cayce's Forgotten Record of Ancient America
by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken, Lora H. Little

Ancient South America: Recent Evidence Supporting Edgar Cayce's Story of Atlantis and Mu

by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken, Lora H. Little


Saami and Berbers--an unexpected mitochondrial DNA link.

Achilli A, Rengo C, Battaglia V, Pala M, Olivieri A, Fornarino S, Magri C, Scozzari R, Babudri N,
Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Bandelt HJ, Semino O, Torroni A.

Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, Università di Pavia, Pavia, Italy.

The sequencing of entire human mitochondrial DNAs belonging to haplogroup U reveals
that this clade arose shortly after the "out of Africa" exit and rapidly radiated into
numerous regionally distinct subclades. Intriguingly, the Saami of Scandinavia and the
Berbers of North Africa were found to share an extremely young branch, aged merely
approximately 9,000 years.

This unexpected finding not only confirms that the Franco-Cantabrian refuge area of south-
western Europe was the source of late-glacial expansions of hunter-gatherers that repopu-
lated northern Europe after the Last Glacial Maximum, but also reveals a direct maternal link
between those European hunter-gatherer populations and the Berbers.

PMID: 15791543 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

PMCID: PMC1199377 

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« Reply #729 on: February 09, 2008, 02:00:56 pm »

                          Slope failures on the flanks of the western Canary Islands

D. G. Massona, , , A. B. Wattsb, M. J. R. Geea, b, R. Urgelesc, N. C. Mitchellb, d, T. P. Le Basa and M. Canalsc

a Southampton Oceanography Centre, Empress Dock, European Way, Southampton SO14 3ZH, UK

b Department of Earth Sciences, University of Oxford, Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PR, UK

c Departamento d'Estratigrafia i Paleontologia, Facultat de Geologia, Universitat de Barcelona, Campus de Pedralbes, E-08071 Barcelona, Spain

d Department of Earth Sciences, Cardiff University, PO Box 914, Cardiff CF10 3YE, UK

Received 7 June 2000;  accepted 17 May 2001.  Available online 27 November 2001.


Landslides have been a key process in the evolution of the western Canary Islands.

The younger and more volcanically active Canary Islands, El Hierro, La Palma and Tenerife,
show the clearest evidence of recent landslide activity. The evidence includes landslide scars
on the island flanks, debris deposits on the lower island slopes, and volcaniclastic turbidites on
the floor of the adjacent ocean basins.

At least 14 large landslides have occurred on the flanks of the El Hierro, La Palma and Tenerife,
the majority of these in the last 1 million years, with the youngest, on the northwest flank of El
Hierro, as recent as 15 thousand years in age.

Older landslides undoubtedly occurred, but are difficult to quantify because the evidence is
buried beneath younger volcanic rocks and sediments.

Landslides on the Canary Island flanks can be categorised as debris avalanches, slumps or debris
flows. Debris avalanches are long runout catastrophic failures which typically affect only the
superficial part of the island volcanic sequence, up to a maximum thickness of 1 to 2 km. They
are the commonest type of landslide mapped.

In contrast, slumps move short distances and are deep-rooted landslides which may affect the
entire thickness of the volcanic edifice. Debris flows are defined as landslides which primarily
affect the sedimentary cover of the submarine island flanks.

Some landslides are complex events involving more than one of the above end-member processes.
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« Reply #730 on: February 09, 2008, 02:04:30 pm »

Individual debris avalanches have volumes in the range of 50–500 km3, cover several thousand
km2 of seafloor, and have runout distances of up to 130 km from source.

Overall, debris avalanche deposits account for about 10% of the total volcanic edifices of the
small, relatively young islands of El Hierro and La Palma.

Some parameters, such as deposit volumes and landslide ages, are difficult to quantify.

The key characteristics of debris avalanches include a relatively narrow headwall and chute
above 3000 m water depth on the island flanks, broadening into a depositional lobe below
3000 m.

Debris avalanche deposits have a typically blocky morphology, with individual blocks up to a
kilometre or more in diameter. However, considerable variation exists between different avalan-
che deposits.

At one extreme, the El Golfo debris avalanche on El Hierro has few large blocks scattered ran-
domly across the avalanche surface. At the other, Icod on the north flank of Tenerife has
much more numerous, but smaller blocks over most of its surface, with a few very large blocks
confined to the margins of the deposit. Icod also exhibits flow structures (longitudinal shears
and pressure ridges) that are absent in El Golfo.

The primary controls on the block structure and distribution are inferred to be related to the
nature of the landslide material and to flow processes. Observations in experimental debris f
lows show that the differences between the El Golfo and Icod landslide deposits are probably
controlled by the greater proportion of fine grained material in the Icod landslide.

This, in turn, relates to the nature of the failed volcanic rocks, which are almost entirely basalt
on El Hierro, but include a much greater proportion of pyroclastic deposits on Tenerife.
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« Reply #731 on: February 09, 2008, 02:07:29 pm »

Landslide occurrence appears to be primarily controlled by the locations of volcanic rift
zones on the islands, with landslides propagating perpendicular to the rift orientation.

However, this does not explain the uneven distribution of landslides on some islands which
seems to indicate that unstable flanks are a ‘weakness’ that can be carried forward during
island development.

This may occur because certain island flanks are steeper, extend to greater water depths
or are less buttressed by the surrounding topography, and because volcanic production
following a landslide may be concentrated in the landslide scar, thus focussing subsequent
landslide potential in this area.

Landslides are primarily a result of volcanic construction to a point where the mass of volcanic products fails under its own weight. Although the actual triggering factors are poorly under-
stood, they may include or be influenced by dyke intrusion, pore pressure changes related to
intrusion, seismicity or sealevel/climate changes.

A possible relationship between caldera collapse and landsliding on Tenerife is not, in our inter-
pretation, supported by the available evidence.

Author Keywords: Canary Islands; Landslides; Debris avalanches; Slumps; Debris flows

 Corresponding author. Tel.: +44-1703-596568; fax: +44-1703-596554; email:
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« Reply #732 on: February 22, 2008, 03:47:46 pm »

Scientific Team Returns From Tsunami Site

ScienceDaily (Aug. 24, 1998) —

The New Guinea Tsunami Catastrophe Suggests Rising Peril For Pacific Rim & Other
Coastline Regions

The first scientific team to survey and report on last month's catastrophic tsunami at
Sissano Lagoon in northwestern Papua New Guinea suggests that tsunamis, or tidal
waves, may threaten more coastline regions of the world than previously thought, in-
cluding much of the West Coast.

The team believes that the tsunami occurred when a 7.0 magnitude earthquake
triggered a massive underwater landslide--creating a series of waves that swept
across heavily populated shoreline strips at the lagoon's entrance.

"We used to think a magnitude 7.0 earthquake was too small to generate a tsunami,"
says Costas Synolakis, Ph.D., leader of the four-person team funded by the National
Science Foundation to measure the tsunami's inundation heights and inland penetration
distances. "Of the nine large tsunamis that have occurred in the past six years, only
the New Guinea one resulted from an earthquake as small as magnitude 7.0."

"We probably have 10 earthquakes of that magnitude a year worldwide," says team
member Emile Okal, Ph.D. "You can have a very large danger concentrated in a very
small area because of the instability of submarine structures that we do not have
very well mapped."

Like Dr. Okal, Dr. Synolakis laments the world's lack of knowledge about ocean-floor
topography. "We have a better map of the surface of Venus than we do of our own
ocean floor," he says.
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« Reply #733 on: February 22, 2008, 03:51:35 pm »

The American team consisted of Synolakis, a professor of civil engineering at the
University of Southern California's School of Engineering; Okal, a professor of geo-
physics at Northwestern University; Boyd C. Benson, a graduate student at the
University of Washington; and José C. Borrero, an NSF fellow and graduate student
from USC.

Also accompanying the team was Mr. Borrero's father, José L. Borrero, M.D., a phy-
sician from Altamonte Springs, Fla., who treated survivors of the tsunami. Randy
Sherman, M.D., chief of the division of plastic and reconstructive surgery at the
USC School of Medicine, assembled medical supplies for the team physician.

Earthquakes of magnitude 7.5 and greater trigger tsunamis that traverse thousands
of miles of ocean to affect thousands of miles of coastline, Synolakis notes. In
contrast, the New Guinea tsunami of July 17 started close to shore and damaged a
relatively small, though heavily populated, area.

Many seismically active coastlines of the Pacific Rim are comparable to the New Guinea
disaster site, where the ocean floor declines rapidly close to shore, falling away in
precipitous chasms and steep canyons.
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« Reply #734 on: February 22, 2008, 04:04:23 pm »

"The Cascadia Subduction Zone off the state of Washington threatens British Columbia,
Washington, Oregon and the northern California coastlines," Synolakis says.

"Southern California, because of its population density and offshore topography, is also
threatened. It would not take a large tsunami to cause a disaster here, where hundreds
of thousands of people are often at the beach. If you're at the beach and feel an earth-
quake, you should move to higher ground as quickly as possible."

Synolakis relates some of the New Guinea survey findings:

"A 7.0 earthquake, with the epicenter significantly inland, occurred shortly after sundown
and was followed 20 minutes later by a 5.9 aftershock. We think the initial quake triggered
a landslide on the sea floor, probably on the order of four or five cubic kilometers. The wave
arrived onshore 5 to 10 minutes after the initial quake.

"Two large tidal waves were followed by a third and smaller wave. Initially no more than
two or three meters high, the waves gained height as they raced over steeply decreasing
depths toward the shore.

"On touching land, the largest waves were 10 to 14 meters (32 to 46 feet) high at the
center (the maximum height fell off significantly a short distance from each wave's center)
and 20 kilometers (12 miles) long. The mass of water in each wave extended back from the
crest as far as four kilometers (2.5 miles).

"The water surged over the peninsula at an estimated speed of 10 to 20 meters per second,
or 22 to 44 miles per hour. This force induced by the tsunami current is 1,000 times greater
than the force of a wind of the same speed."
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