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what was the language of Atlantis?


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Elric
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2007, 04:46:32 pm »

MYSTERY OF THE FUTHARK
ALPHABET

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Futhark alphabet was used by the North European Germanic peoples (the Swedish, Norwegian and Danish) between the 3rd and 17th centuries A.D. About 3500 stone monuments in Europe, concentrated mostly in Sweden and Norway, are claimed to have been inscribed with this writing.

The purpose of this article is to draw the readers' attention to the fact that this Futhark alphabet, which is also called the Runic (1) stemmed from the very same origin as did the ancient Turkish (2) inscriptions with Gokturk (3) alphabet.The article is concerned solely with reading the alphabet known as "the primitive futhark", found inscribed on a rock in Kylver on Gotland Island, Sweden, in addition to the other two stone monuments, namely the Mojbro stone in Uppland, and the Istaby stone in Blekinge, with their photographs available, and which are considered to belong to the group classified as the oldest runic inscriptions, by matching their characters with those in the Gokturk inscriptions, and thus being able to decipher them in Turkish. Further ideas, interpretations and opinions in relation to this particular subject shall not be treated within this article. I suggest that more interested readers should get in touch with us directly.

I would like to emphasize the point that I am not advocating any claim on these texts being written in the Gokturk script or vice versa. My claim is that the alphabets of these monuments found in both Europe and the Central Asia have stemmed from a common origin in a very remote past. Then, it was only a natural development for the Turkish, and the Germanic tribes that, although in locations so far away from each other, they could seperately carry on with this heritage of writing. I hold the belief that I have been able to prove the claim summarized above by reading the monuments written in Futhark alphabet, or the Oldest Runic, in Turkish through the help of the Gokturk alphabet. The result submitted to your reading here is just a small part of a greater research that has been going on for the past several years (4).

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/index.htm
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 04:48:53 pm by Elric » Report Spam   Logged
Elric
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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2007, 04:49:32 pm »



The Mojbro stone from
Uppland SWEDEN
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Elric
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« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2007, 04:51:21 pm »



The Istaby stone from
Blekinge SWEDEN

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/index.htm
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Elric
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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2007, 04:55:08 pm »

The Orhun (5) monuments were discovered by a Swedish officer named Strahlenberg, and his finding was made known by publications in 1730. In 1893, the Danish scholar Thomsen was able to decipher these inscriptions and declare that they were written in Turkish (6).The monuments of Kultigin and Bilge Kagan, situated near the Kosho-Tsaydam lake in the Orhun River valley to the south of the Lake Baykal, and that of Sage Tonyukuk, the Deputy-Khan (7) a little farther, are the three important memorials which make up what is known in general as the Orhun Monuments. The inscription used on them consists 38 characters. Numerous stone monuments are also found around the Yenisei River, but they belong to a period much earlier than that of the Orhun pieces, and there are in excess of 150 Skyturkish character-forms used on. The ancient Turkish script was written vertically with the lines running from top left downwards to the bottom right, and read accordingly, that is from right to left when the text is laid down on its right side. The individual marks are not joined, and the full or partial sentences are seperated with a column mark " : " in between.



The eight vowel sounds of Turkish, are represented in couples by 4 marks, and they usually are not employed in the beginning and the middle syllables of a word, but are shown in the last syllable, or if they occur at the end. For example:



a ferocious bull, or a fire-breathing dragon (Cool.



The "god", or "a deity".

As for the Futhark alphabet employed on the stones found in Sweden, the monuments bearing this inscription are studied in two main chapters in Prof.Jansson's study:

a) The oldest runic inscriptions

b) The 16-rune Futhark and Runic inscriptions from the Viking Age.


The oldest runic inscriptions are written with an alphabet of 24 characters (9).The chapter, from pages 9 to 24, in Prof.Jansson's book of 185 pages is devoted to this particular period. The three stone inscriptions which are mentioned in this part are:

- The stone from Kylver farm in Stanga (Gotland). This is the oldest relic found in Sweden, dating back to the fifth century. (p.13)

- The Mojbro stone from Uppland. (p.18)

- The Istaby stone from Blekinge. (p.21)


Although these three monuments are declared as not deciphered yet, the author is attempting at some unfounded assumptions in relation to their contents. According to the map supplied at the end of this book, there happens to be numerous stones, which are inscribed with the same alphabet and belong to the same period of history, in more than 70 locations in the north and northwest of Europe. (Appendix A). In this article, the decipherment of the three stones mentioned above is accounted.

The monuments considered to be in the 16-rune futhark group belong to a later period called the Viking Age which started at about AD. 800. During this period, the 24-characters of the Primitive Norse runes became simplified and reduced to 16-rune series.The pages 25-30 and the rest of the book in Jansson's study are allocated to this subject which is beyond the concern of my article.

The Europen scholars have come to recognize from the very beginning the obvious similarity between the character forms of the Primitive Norse stones and those of the C.Asian Gokturk monuments, but for certain various reasons have refrained from tackling this point by denying all kinds of plausible relations. All throughout the period of 160 years that elapsed between the years of 1730 and 1893, that is between the discovery of Orhun monuments and their definitely final decipherment, fanciful theories were fabricated about the Vikings' (or Indo-Germans', or Celts', or Goths') prehistoric emigrations into C.Asia, and the **** of Orhun stones as landmarks of their presence and civilization dating back to several thousands of years BC in that region. Only when in 1893, it was understood that these inscriptions were not written in any other tongue but pure Turkish, then those fanciful theories were discarded, and the proposed pre-historic datings were revised to be not earlier than AD 700. Even today, a number of academicians are still straining at finding a Sogdian, Persian or Aramaic origin for Turkish inscriptions, but their efforts at proving their claims all end in vain. A casual comparision of ancient scripts is all needed to see that the characters used in Orhun monuments are more identical with the futhark than any of those alleged originals. Besides this close resemblance, it is an exciting fact that the Primitive Norse runes declared to have ambiguous contexts can be rendered meaningfully when they are exposed to our novel method of read-ing ancient Turkish scripts.

As I have remarked at the beginning of this article, it must be kept in mind that the ancient Turkish script used in Central Asia and the Primitive Norse futhark in Europe, as well as those other scripts mentioned in passing above, have all stemmed from a common origin in a very remote past. Then, the Turkish, Germanic, and other tribes have independently relied on this common legacy of writing for the monuments in their own tongues.

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/FUTHP2E.HTM
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Elric
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2007, 04:57:39 pm »

The stone from Kylver farm in Stanga (Gotland) .

Now, we can take a closer look at the photograph supplied on page 13 in Prof. Jansson's book: The whole Primitive Norse rune-row is recorded on a stone, used as a side-slab in a sarcophagus, and found in Kylver farm in Gotland.



Since the characters from the 1st to the 6th spell out futhark, this word is used to denote the runic script. However, some characters are cut slightly different on the stone than what is shown within the text above:



An identical form of the futhark character shown under #23 is also found in the Tonyukuk inscription, and commented upon on page 149 in Prof.Ergin's book, although it is not given in the main list of symbols. In this book, it is stated to mean "head". But for me, it signifies k+l. kel kelle, which is a synonim for the same word, and a composite form of these two distinct characters. The same thing can be said for the character #13: It is a composite form of the symbols

meaning (to) talk, (to) speak in English. It is also interesting if we consider the form as a pictoglyph of an open mouth.

Now, I shall venture to read this 24-character rune row, from right to left, by applying the rules of reading Gokturk inscriptions




The meaning obtained thru reading the above piece, as if it were written in ancient Turkish, can roughly be rendered in today's English as follows:

The light of wisdom arrived/descended, he himself carved onto this erect stone, with ( the pointed tip of ) his arrow/dagger, the words he uttered/spoke through his own mouth.

I shall refrain from venturing into any philological or philosophical interpretations here. But, I would like to draw your attention to the emergence of the word O.d.ng, when the characters numbered 24, 23, 22 are considered in their runic namesakes. In the Scandinavian mythology, it was Odin, the Norse God who brought the gift of divine script to mankind. Then, the very name of the god in these three symbols read out as the light of wisdom (alias the divine reason), or the sage/lord of light in ancient Turkish... The readers further interested in this subject should get in touch with me.

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/FUTHP3E.HTM
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« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2007, 05:00:02 pm »

The Mojbro stone from Uppland, which is a memorial monument:



In this script, our attention is drawn to the placement of some characters backwards. Especially, the rune R, read as "op", is peculiar. For this reason, I have read it as "po". Reading from right to left, starting with the bottom line:



The meaning obtained thru reading the above piece, as if it were written in ancient Turkish, can roughly be rendered in today's English as follows:

(May both of) the dog(s) charge well; so that the sacred sky-spirit acknowledges their boldness..



On this stone, under the inscription, there is a carving of a rider on his horse, holding up a round shield in his left hand while brandishing his weapon in his right. There are two dogs running beside the horse, as if all of them are engaged in an attack.

Also, the writing style of the symbols and the density of symbols, means the less character spacing, on the left corner, proves the original writing style was from right to left.

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/FUTHP4E.HTM
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2007, 05:02:18 pm »

The Istaby stone from Blekinge, which was carved in the transition period between the Primitive Norse period and Viking Age:



Reading the inscription from right to left:



he (who was) brave (and) lived through many hardships (of) army, committed not flight (or did not desert his post of duty) lies herein...

Truly a fitting epitaph for a soul who endured much in his wordly life.

My deciphering ends here, because the photographs of only these three stones are supplied within the chapter titled "The Oldest Runic Inscriptions" in Prof. Jansson's book. In conclusion, I admit that I might have made some minor mistakes and errors in my treatment of the subject. However, I hold the opinion that these stones do contain the messages of similar meanings in more or less the same way as I have striven to put forward. My purpose is to initiate a new interest in this ancient inscriptions and be of help in starting up a fresh discussion in regard to their contents. For this reason, I have not dwelt on speculative interpretations, but wanted to remark that the Primitive Norse futhark or the rune alphabet have stemmed from a much older common origin as that of the Gokturks.




January 1994

Turgay Kurum

http://www.antalya-ws.com/futhark/FUTHP5E.HTM

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Bianca
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2007, 05:43:29 pm »

Hi, Elric,

I know nothing about this subject, but I read it just so I have a smidgen of
what it's all about.

The MIDDLE ADRIATIC/SOUTH PICENE caught my eye.  That's where I was
born.  My hometown, ASCOLI PICENO, capital of this zone, is far more ancient
than Rome.

I must go and research their archives soon. 

B
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Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
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« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2007, 09:57:32 pm »






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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2007, 12:36:19 pm »

Elric,

If you have not yet read "Finding Atlantis", I hope you will obtain a copy.  I got one very cheaply from Amazon.  It is the story of Olof Rudbeck, a true genius of Sweden who lived in the 1600s who spent the last 30 years of his life compiling and publishing ATLANTICA, a 2500 page tome on the origin of Atlantis.  His life story is now for the first time in English.

 Rudbeck shows how the caduceus, encircled with 2 intertwined snakes, which are a common symbol in the north, is actually a code device, a perfect microcosm of the runes.  King says:

"In fact, on examination, each letter of the runic alphabet could actually be seen encoded in the god's emblem.  If one relied on various angles formed by the snakes around the staff, every single rune could indeed be crafted."
"Affixing numbers to various points on the staff and the snakes, Rudbeck provided directions for marking the runes by using Mercury/Hermes' caduceus."
"What a device for encoding the letters, and for transmitting the knowledge!  Rudbeck's discovery looks even more exciting when it is remembered that Hermes was, according to traditional accounts of classical mythology, the god who brought the alphabet to many places in antiquity, from Egypt to Arabia.  So Rudbeck concluded that the "god's" staff was the handy means of teaching the art of the runes.  And along with these Hyperborean heiroglyphics, the magical, mystical, and secret learning of the north would also be transmitted to the wise men of the Mediterranean."
"Developing this insight--how, when, where, why, and what it all meant-- was to be one of the central functions of Rudbeck's ATLANTICA."

Olof Rudbeck c.1679

from FINDING ATLANTIS by David King
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Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

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Bianca
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« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2007, 02:15:14 pm »



Elric,

I second what Rocky said.  I bought the book myself (I buy most of the books that
are suggested in this forum), a brand new hardback for $5.00. 

It's a great read, even though I am almost totally ignorant of the region (being a
dyed-in-the-wool Italian, steeped in Mediterranean lore), I found it fascinating and
very easy to follow.  As a matter of fact, it has sparked great interest in me about
the Baltic region and I intend to pursue it further. 

I have a new theory of Atlantis also, because of it.
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Bianca
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« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2007, 03:11:19 pm »





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« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2007, 03:45:25 pm »

Dear Elric: I wonder is there any relationship between all those runic writibgs and The Iberian writings?it looks like runic:
http://www.webpersonal.net/jrr/ib4_en.htm
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Elric
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« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2007, 08:47:31 pm »



Elric,

I second what Rocky said.  I bought the book myself (I buy most of the books that
are suggested in this forum), a brand new hardback for $5.00. 

It's a great read, even though I am almost totally ignorant of the region (being a
dyed-in-the-wool Italian, steeped in Mediterranean lore), I found it fascinating and
very easy to follow.  As a matter of fact, it has sparked great interest in me about
the Baltic region and I intend to pursue it further. 

I have a new theory of Atlantis also, because of it.

What is your new theory, Bianca, anything new and original in it?
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Elric
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« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2007, 08:51:08 pm »

Elric,

If you have not yet read "Finding Atlantis", I hope you will obtain a copy.  I got one very cheaply from Amazon.  It is the story of Olof Rudbeck, a true genius of Sweden who lived in the 1600s who spent the last 30 years of his life compiling and publishing ATLANTICA, a 2500 page tome on the origin of Atlantis.  His life story is now for the first time in English.

 Rudbeck shows how the caduceus, encircled with 2 intertwined snakes, which are a common symbol in the north, is actually a code device, a perfect microcosm of the runes.  King says:

"In fact, on examination, each letter of the runic alphabet could actually be seen encoded in the god's emblem.  If one relied on various angles formed by the snakes around the staff, every single rune could indeed be crafted."
"Affixing numbers to various points on the staff and the snakes, Rudbeck provided directions for marking the runes by using Mercury/Hermes' caduceus."
"What a device for encoding the letters, and for transmitting the knowledge!  Rudbeck's discovery looks even more exciting when it is remembered that Hermes was, according to traditional accounts of classical mythology, the god who brought the alphabet to many places in antiquity, from Egypt to Arabia.  So Rudbeck concluded that the "god's" staff was the handy means of teaching the art of the runes.  And along with these Hyperborean heiroglyphics, the magical, mystical, and secret learning of the north would also be transmitted to the wise men of the Mediterranean."
"Developing this insight--how, when, where, why, and what it all meant-- was to be one of the central functions of Rudbeck's ATLANTICA."

Olof Rudbeck c.1679

from FINDING ATLANTIS by David King

Thanks, Rockessence, I plan to get the book shortly.  I have Jurgen Spanuth's book, "Atlantis of the North," is it similar?
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